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#rockbox log for 2023-12-25

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12:16:24iagomagoHello everyone and happy holidays! I just managed to rock my HiFi Walker H2, but there seems to be a problem: whenever I try to start a music file, the player turns to a white screen with this writing on it:
12:16:24iagomagosegmentation fault at 7770857c (this number varies on the kind of file I'm trying to play)
12:16:25iagomagoaddress (nil)
12:16:25DBUGEnqueued KICK iagomago
12:16:25iagomagorockbox.ersoq(rb_back trace+0x44) [0x4811d4]
12:16:37iagomagoWhat might be the problem?
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12:24:08iagomagoobviously there's no audio and the player is stuck, so I have to reboot every time, with no change whatsoever. I tried changing the music directories but I didn't get any different result
12:47:41sporksounds a lot like an issue someone on the forum was having
12:47:55sporkhe tried a different sd card and then it worked fine
12:48:23sporkthis thread:,54722.msg253118.html#msg253118
12:50:15iagomagoOh! I wondered as well if it could be an SD card issue. Do you think if I formatted it again there would be different results?
12:50:43sporki could not say, but it seems worth a try
12:50:56sporkyou do not happen to have a second card you can try ?
12:51:32iagomagoI don't think I have one on me right now. Do you believe I should format it back at FAT32 or should I try another format (like, I don't know, NTFS)?
12:51:51sporkfat32 for sure
12:52:28iagomagothanks! I'll try
12:52:53sporkgood luck
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13:38:07braewoodsiagomago: if you end up seeing this, you may also want to try a complete wipe, either discard or overwriting, before reformatting. junk data in old sectors can cause trouble in some cases.
13:56:07speachymewt: From what I understand, the _msata_ SSDs are typically more power-hungry than the original hard drives.
13:56:34speachybut when it comes to the SD-based ones, a lot depends on the specific SD cards.
13:56:56speachybest I can say is that I've seen many conflicting reports.
13:58:26speachy(and because those SD adapters basically lie about power management features, to solve the original data corruption problems I had to _disable_ use of said power management features, which may hurt battery life. basically we don't know when it's actually safe to turn off the power, so we err on the side of never.
14:05:30braewoodsspeachy, would it be possible to configure that as a setting for more adventurous users?
14:06:16speachypossible? Of course? but is it a good idea? $deity only knows.
14:06:51mewtspeachy: ok, that's what I'd heard, but wasn't able to find numbers or anything
14:06:52braewoodsYea, i can see it causing bug reporting issues because someone decided to enable it.
14:06:55speachythe heuristic I came up with is essnetially "is the device claiming to be an SSD?"
14:07:24braewoodsthere's times i've seen Linux disable power management because it doesn't work properly.
14:07:46speachybecause again, those SD card adapters claim to be CF cards but fail badly. And the msata stuff does seem to work but even operating normally has pretty bad peak power draw.
14:08:14braewoodsthat's a surprise considering HDDs were said to use more power.
14:08:20mewtthat's frustrating
14:08:42braewoodsYou may want to just buy real CF cards.
14:08:47speachythe microdrive and 1.8" drives were intended for portable batterypowered applications.
14:09:02speachypeak power had to stay within certain constraints
14:09:05speachysmall constraints
14:09:16mewtthe big reason of wanting to mod the thing was getting *much* higher capacity; I can't fit much of my library in 160
14:09:17braewoodsThose are usually fine as long as true IDE mode is enabled by the adapter.
14:09:18speachy"real" SSDs prioritize performance
14:09:25speachywhich is _completely_ wasted on the likes of rockbox.
14:09:31braewoodsOh. Right. I've only seen 256 max.
14:09:45braewoodsWhat's the original? An ipod?
14:10:05braewoodsmewt, what is your library stored as? flac?
14:10:07mewt1TB is what I'd like to do. In my case I'm looking at a 7thgen iPod classic, MC297
14:10:32mewtIt is a huge mix of stuff that would be an undertaking way larger than modding the iPod to organize fully and transcode
14:10:43braewoodsI wonder. Some of our newer targets directly use SD cards and those may work better.
14:11:11braewoodsAssuming high capacity cards are compatible.
14:11:45mewtwhich targets do you think are a likely bet?
14:12:06braewoodsLet me think a moment. I only own a few of one like that that aren't sandisks.
14:12:08mewtI'm not attached to this thing though I do like it; long as I could Rockbox it too and the sound quality is good I see no problem
14:12:43braewoodsxduoo x3, it's hard to get these days but it has 2 SD card slots exposed.
14:12:54braewoodsAluminum case.
14:13:18braewoodsBattery can be replaced without a ton of trouble from what I've seen.
14:13:19speachyaudio quality is not likely to matter if you're not using very high quality headphones in a very quiet environment.
14:13:34mewtWell, I have ER4SR
14:13:41mewtHigh quality is relative ig
14:13:42braewoodsxduoo x3 is a monochrome OLED screen.
14:13:52speachy(meaning different encoding formats. flac is really a waste of disk space in the portable context)
14:14:24mewtI'd be fine with making informed decisions about transcoding myself later on for sure
14:14:26braewoodsYou also have the option of re-encoding as OPUS which provides very good quality in a small package.
14:14:46braewoodsBetter than MP3 or Vorbis.
14:15:11speachybecause the incremental CPU (power) cost of decoding a lossy format becomes less than the (incremental) storage (power) cost of shoveling severla times more data around.
14:15:45braewoodsYea, from my experiments, you can get CD quality audio with Opus in like 10% of the size or less.
14:15:55braewoodsIn terms of raw uncompressed.
14:16:22braewoodsThe encoder is pretty advanced by now. Opus is mature.
14:16:53speachy(relatedly, I find it hilarious that folks go on about different compression formats when they're playing it back nearly exclusively over bluetooth)
14:16:58mewtWell, as it is right now: I have multiple TB of music accrued over 15y from tons of sources without a consistent tagging scheme, codec, or folder structure. I'm not *opposed* to eventually organizing all that and transcoding it, but if I do that right now, I might as well do that before I replace the iPod, and I was hoping to temporarily sidestep this issue with higher capacity
14:17:39braewoodsYou will likely need both if you intend to have a copy of the whole thing available on the same device.
14:17:59speachynavigating thousands of files is a real PITA. I don't know what the theoretical max of the rockbox db is.
14:18:04braewoodsxduoo x3 is one of our few targets with 2 card slots.
14:18:10mewtLet me see how much cmus knows about right now
14:18:28speachyyeah, the x3 is pretty nice in that regard and has enough raw oomph to handle anything.
14:18:34braewoodsWe can support up to 2TB storage device.
14:18:45braewoodsSo maybe up to 4TB if you combine the two.
14:18:51speachyits battery life is rather disappointing (not rockbox's fault)
14:19:38braewoodsspeachy, can FAT32 be used on larger volumes as long as the individuals are within the limits?
14:19:47braewoodsLike having FAT32 on multiple partitions.
14:20:00braewoodsBut the sum of their sizes is greater than 2TB.
14:20:04mewtI have about 45k tracks, looks like
14:20:23mewtrough estimate from
14:20:50mewtCan you charge one of those players and listen to it at the same time?
14:20:58braewoodsUh usually.
14:21:11mewtEverything else about it looks just fine for my needs
14:21:57braewoodsxduoo x3 still show up on ebay every now and then.
14:22:13braewoodsBut you should probably sort through your collection first.
14:22:18speachy2TB is the max with 512 byte sectors.
14:22:19mewtI'll save a search. I guess this isn't horribly pressing and I can try to slowly organize my library in the meantime
14:23:18speachyit's also the max for SDXC; SDUC requires additional work as it moved to >32 bit sector counts.
14:23:59braewoodsFunny how ATA was prepared for this long before the partition tables were.
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14:25:15speachywell, one could argue that MS-DOS's partition table format was ready for this long before ATA ever was a thing.
14:25:39speachy(with its 32-bit partition start/end addresses)
14:25:56braewoodsGPT is technically more capable since it does 64.
14:26:07speachyand if 2K sectors were used, that's 8TB max per drive
14:26:13braewoodsBut I can't see 48 bits being fully utilized any time soon on a single disk.
14:27:04speachyrockbox does handle GPT now, but it's still practically limited to 2TB drives on everything but one generation of the ipod that had a drive with 2K sectors.
14:27:47braewoodsyea, we'd need a new filesystem.
14:28:03speachyhence exFAT
14:28:10braewoodsthere's only one other one I can think of that would be common enough: udf.
14:28:19braewoodsbut it has its own issues.
14:28:20speachyudf is not easily written
14:28:38speachysince it was designed for write-once media.
14:28:39braewoodsOh, it isn't? I just recalled experimenting with using in on external drives before.
14:28:56braewoodsIt can be used a HD filesystem though not the original design.
14:29:33speachyit can be, yes, but it's not worth the complexity.
14:30:07speachyUDF is intented for something where writes are very rare, and when they happen, come in a large batch.
14:30:53speachy(it grew out of the need to "grow" a filesystem written to rewritable optical media)
14:31:24braewoodsI see.
14:31:53speachyif something new is going to be written, exFAT is the only logical choice given that's what the entire industry has settled on.
14:32:03braewoodsMaybe when the patents run out. ;)
14:32:41speachyany patents on it have effectively (if not explicitly) been disavowed
14:33:02 Quit LanMarc77 (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
14:33:44speachyeg the fully GPL implementation in the linux kernel with MS's explcit blessing, which includes grants for all the patents it touches.
14:37:15speachyanyway. GPT was the first step. next step is to make the core rockbox storage layer support >32bit addresses, then push that into the various drivers where relevant.
14:38:02speachyATA core already handles LBA48 (albeit with 32-bit addresses) so that won't be hard to extend. SD will be more complicated.
14:38:43speachyFAT32 filesystem provider should can also probably just have a s/uint32_t/uint64_t/ for the sector size and JustWork(tm).
14:38:56speachyer, sector number
14:39:58speachyall that together would allow use of drives over 2TB, and with really large cluster sizes FAT32 volumes >2TB.
14:40:55braewoodsspeachy, would those even be supported by Windows?
14:41:13speachyI don't know. It is technically legal IIUC.
14:41:58speachyWindows won't let you _create_ a FAT32 filesystem over 32GB IIRC.
14:50:08 Quit mewt (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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15:56:37braewoodsindeed it won't but cluster sizes are another matter...
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15:59:24braewoodsseems the linux formatting tools won't handle more than 128 sectors per cluster which is 64k for 512 sector size.
16:01:56braewoodsup to 512k i guess
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22:19:46_bilgus_ g#5549 should work now if anyone cares to test
22:20:25_bilgus_ [BugFix] Multiboot Database duplicate files
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