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#rockbox log for 2024-11-27

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04:08:48ac_laptophello people
04:09:00CH23hello, ac_laptop
04:09:58ac_laptopI've tried to upgrade rockbox on my xduo x3ii from rbutil and I coudn't reboot it after that
04:10:28ac_laptopSelecting the player in the bootload results in a black screen of a few seconds and then a reboot
04:11:00CH23will it still mount on your computer?
04:11:10ac_laptopCH23: no
04:11:47ac_laptopI've rebooted on the stock firmware and tried to reinstall from there but it says the mSD is read-only
04:12:31ac_laptopshould I attempt to reinstall by hand ?
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04:19:56ac_laptopbrb
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04:20:12CH23i wonder if your µSD card has broken and went into read-only mode.
04:27:43 Join ac_laptop [0] (~ac_laptop@2a0c:e303:0:7300:e29d:31ff:fe2d:a258)
04:31:30CH23ac_laptop: i wonder if your µSD card is broken. is it writable from the computer when input directly?
04:32:28ac_laptopCH23: yes, I've actually cleaned up some space this way
04:32:46ac_laptopand now it boots on Rockbox but still says it's not writeable
04:35:16CH23that's weird. not sure why or how that could happen.
04:36:00ac_laptopmaybe there was something wrong with last install (not enough space, not unpacking properly ?)
04:37:30CH23rockbox usually doesn't take that much space, probably less than 50MB or so, even with all games and stuff included
04:41:56ac_laptopI'll install last daily build manually
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04:45:26ac_laptopnow my card appears read-only even when mounted directly
04:45:35ac_laptoplooks like something is wrong indeed
04:46:05CH23how old is the sd card?
04:46:15CH23also brand/size
04:47:34Trzyzetfrom my experience, if official SD card formatter from sdcard.org doesn't work then card is dead.
04:52:46ac_laptopCH23: samsung EVO mSDHC 32G, bought it in 2016
04:57:13CH23ac_laptop you could try the tool Trzyzet mentions, be aware that it can erase all data on the card if you do. seeing as it's 8 years old, i find it likely that it's just broken though
05:00
05:02:05ac_laptopCH23: yes, rockbox was very slow on some operations recently, it could be that the card has reached end of life
05:02:38ac_laptopCH23: does rockbox do a lot of rw when it's installed on the card ?
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05:07:55CH23i'm not entirely sure. I thought it didn't
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05:20:23ac_laptopCH23: well I did an fsck -a and it seems to work now, I could mount in rw and reinstall rockbox
05:27:49CH23Nice
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06:01:06sporkdo not count on it to live forever though
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06:08:05ac_laptopspork: well it's time to buy some spare of course, but given that I very rarely upgrade the contents on this card (change the music libary, upgrade rockbox), an sd card on rockbox should last fairly long
06:08:51ac_laptopit's not like a camera which does write operations on each capture
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09:30:58speachyat minimum you'll have a write on every shutdown.
09:31:14speachybut flash will deteriorate over time, even for read-only loads.
09:41:35 Join OlsroFR [0] (~OlsroFR@user/OlsroFR)
09:41:54OlsroFRBenchmarked my iPod Mini with a 128GB SD Card + Red CF to SD adapter: also around only 6 hours of battery life
09:42:44OlsroFRso using the Red CF Adapter lead to the same result as using an official iFlash one (even though they claim that the Red CF Adapter supports TrueIDE mode)
09:43:29OlsroFRI don't know about other iPod models since the IDE_power_enable does something different based on the model of the iPod, but it really looks like it does nothing concrete on the iPod Minis 2nd gen
09:44:37OlsroFRwith a real HDD or compact flash, the battery life is good probably just because these devices listens to the ATA command that is sent before attempting to cut down the power which lead to the same result
09:45:41speachyide_power_enable() toggles a GPIO and another register on the mini2g.
09:46:19speachybut I do see a distinct current drop when the drive is powered down according to my meter.
09:47:14OlsroFRyup. I looked into the iPodLinux project and I searched on Google to see if someone documented it and unfortunately power management is documented only for the first ipods so I couldn't try to change things to debug
09:47:43OlsroFRmaybe also that GPIO does its thing only if the drive supports something related to power management
09:47:54speachyno
09:48:09OlsroFRit's kinda cursed that the difference to get a difference of 10 hours in battery life only when I use an iFlash/SD adapter
09:48:20speachymy supposition is that that GPIO controls a power regulator.
09:48:39OlsroFRaccording to tarkan's benchmarks, using an SD card should lead to something like -20% of battery life maximum compared to a CF card
09:49:28speachyyou need to be measuring current to make useful (granular) observations.
09:49:42OlsroFRalso, the fact that I can't notice a difference (even just one more hour ?) between cutting down power or not, is worrying
09:50:29OlsroFRyour patch had no noticeable impact on both of my setups (Red CF Adapter or iFlash).
09:50:37speachyso it's possible/likely that something else is necessary. but that will probably require pcb-level analysis.
09:51:04OlsroFRBut if I use the iFlash adapter on Stock OS, it lasts twice longer (I will do a benchmark soon to compare)
09:51:05speachyor re-reverse-engineering the original firmware
09:51:26OlsroFRSo you know any meaningful tool that I can use to reverse-engineer the original firmware ?
09:52:14OlsroFRDo*
09:52:22speachyIDA pro, ghidra?
09:52:34speachyit's not a matter of "tools" but rather skill and persistence.
09:52:50speachythe folks who did the original work back the day have long since moved on
09:55:37OlsroFRI am very motivated at continuing searching on this as much as I can; the mini is an awesome pod
09:56:30OlsroFRAn SD modding is much more convenient to do rather than CF modding when you want to deal with high capacities. Also, CF cards are limited to 256GB, even high-end ones
09:57:44speachysince we already know a lot about the mini2g, could probably start by finding where apple twiddles the DEV_IDE0 bit of the DEV_EN register, and see what else is going on around it.
10:00
10:02:58OlsroFRI just started to benchmark the battery on Stock OS just to be sure since I did it long time ago
10:03:13speachyplaying the exact same files?
10:03:14OlsroFRsame songs, same codec (AAC 160kbps CVBR)
10:03:59speachyanother thing to consider is relative efficiency of the codecs.
10:04:00OlsroFRorder seems to be different but I don't think it will matter significantly since it's more than 600 different songs
10:04:22OlsroFRI already did benchmarks between AAC and Musepack (MPC) and the difference was very small
10:04:58OlsroFR< than 1 hour runtime difference
10:05:35speachympc and aac are both pretty cpu intensive
10:05:36OlsroFRMaybe the difference is more significant if using something like OPUS that is stressing hard the CPU, but AAC is decoded pretty efficiently by Rockbox
10:05:51speachycompared to eg mp3
10:06:25speachydon't know what kind of dynamic clocking the apple firmware does
10:06:31speachy(if any)
10:07:01OlsroFRhttps://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison most of the time, mpc compete pretty well with mp3 in terms of decoding speed, while AAC is a bit heavier
10:07:39OlsroFRbut playing the same files, my blue iPod Mini CF modded with a real CF card can last easily around 15 hours backlight off with an equivalent cameron sino battery
10:08:15OlsroFRthe only difference is about storage type; real cf card VS sd to cf adapter
10:09:42OlsroFRso even if CPU clock can be optimized further (I don't know), I don't think it will provide a significant boost in terms of battery life. Something unknown is currently plaguing hard the battery life consumption only when these are flash modded with a SD card.
10:11:00OlsroFRapple themselves marketed the 2nd gen ipod minis to last around 18 hours: https://support.apple.com/en-us/112317 so dying in only 5 or 6 hours with cameron sino batteries (which are the best replacements which lasts just as much as an original "new" battery is completely abnormal
10:11:20OlsroFRI hope we will ever be able to understand why
10:12:18speachyagain this will most likely require tracing the PCB to find where the power supply to the CF connector runs.
10:12:44OlsroFRI can't do this but I will try the Ghidra route
10:12:45speachythere's probably a dedicated switched LDO directly connected to the battery
10:13:06OlsroFRto reverse engineer the Stock OS enough to understand what register it may set
10:13:14speachyfind where that control signal goes
10:26:29_bilgus_^ something similar increased battery life on the sansav1 devices by ~1hr https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/1887
10:27:18_bilgus_but thats a dedicated chip and an actual datasheet to help find it
10:29:18OlsroFRGhidra cannot do analysis on the binary: (These messages are also written to the application log file)
10:29:19OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: Reset at 00000000.  Message: null
10:29:19OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: UndefinedInstruction at 00000004.  Message: null
10:29:20DBUGEnqueued KICK OlsroFR
10:29:20OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: SupervisorCall at 00000008.  Message: null
10:29:20OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: PrefetchAbort at 0000000c.  Message: null
10:29:21***Alert Mode level 1
10:29:21OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: DataAbort at 00000010.  Message: null
10:29:21***Alert Mode level 2
10:29:21OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: NotUsed at 00000014.  Message: null
10:29:22***Alert Mode level 3
10:29:22OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: IRQ at 00000018.  Message: null
10:29:22***Alert Mode level 4
10:29:22OlsroFRDemangler GNU> Unable to demangle symbol: FIQ at 0000001c.  Message: null
10:29:33OlsroFRmaybe the firmware is encrypted ?
10:30:21speachyI don't know.
10:30:42speachyif you're looking at the file downloaded from apple, that's not the raw binary either.
10:30:56OlsroFRI extracted the ipsw (which is a zip)
10:30:58speachywelcome to the wonderful world of reverse engineering
10:31:29speachyI mean the "Firmware update binary" itself is usualyl some sort of wrapper around the raw binary. eg including a header with length, checksums, etc.
10:39:23***Alert Mode OFF
10:42:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:57:52OlsroFRwell I don't have the knowledge to go further, Ghidra is too messy and can't find online doc outside of the Rockbox project itself
11:00
11:55:45speachythe ipod4linux source code repo doesn't cover the power control of the ide controller, on any target.
11:57:38 Quit OlsroFR (Quit: Client closed)
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14:00:57 Join dconrad [0] (~dconrad@152.117.104.232)
14:01:26dconradspeachy: I'm back in town for the day today, thought I would build the hw4 bootloader and make an update file. It's here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i_1W4mUiXSnxn4Oh9pWCnZH9UvHsCPBx/view?usp=sharing
14:01:47dconradtested out on my device, installs as expected via the stock updater
14:02:18dconradI also saw the forum post about the old bootloader, I think this patchset should solve that issue: g#6108
14:02:21rb-bluebotGerrit review #6108 at https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/6108 : erosqnative: Check for invalid device_data, default to 1 by Dana Conrad
14:17:14speachyare hw1/hw2 fully runtime detectable? I'd hate to have that fallback cause silent issues.
14:18:45dconradany newer bootloader should have the hardware version baked in via device_data, even the hw1/hw2 bootloader
14:19:41dconradI suppose we could even determine hw1 or hw2 based on if device_data is hw1 and we detect the i2c dac, we know we have hw2... but I didn't go that far
14:19:51dconradperhaps I should?
14:20:12speachythat's what I'm getting at; right now it's a clear "you need to update your bootloader" failure
14:21:00dconradah, you'd rather this failure mode?
14:21:10dconradI can certainly leave it if you want
14:21:36speachyI think that's better than a silent (hah!) failure
14:22:10dconradfair enough, I'll put a blurb in the troubleshooting document about it
14:22:41speachybut presumably we can detect detect the difference in dac at runtime (ie the only meaningful hw1/hw2 change)
14:22:53dconradyeah, that was at runtime
14:23:00speachy"was" ?
14:23:06dconradis
14:23:29dconradI just meant that was the first hardware change I needed to do detection for haha
14:23:49dconradit just pings it on i2c and sees if it gets an expected value back
14:23:59speachyso... if the invalid bootdata gets demoted/defaulted to hw1, we still probe for the dac
14:24:04dconradyep
14:24:15speachyif that probe is successful, we should update the bootdata so teh correct debug info is shown
14:24:15dconradit's fully independent
14:24:51speachy(ie so the wrong value is never displayed)
14:25:56speachywould be nice to have the debug info be able to show that we did that though. on the hosted side I headed off a lot of bug reports by having the bootloader report its version, and the main firmware displaying that.
14:28:35dconradwell... in literal terms it says "LCD Version:" in the device data debug page, and if you go to the HW Info/Audio page, it'll either say "ES9018K2M HWVOL" OR "SWVOL"
14:29:03speachyhmm, not technically correct any more
14:29:11dconradyeah...
14:31:26dconradI think what I can probably do is if it's a hw1 device from device_data, update that to hw2 if the newer dac is found and it should show that way in the device data debug page
14:31:54dconradand change references to device_data.lcd_version to device_data.hw_version, and verbiage on the debug page
14:32:50dconradthough that still changes the device_data out from under us during runtime like the patchset that's up there now
14:33:18dconradmaybe that's ok?
14:34:22speachyeither not at all, or do it right. :D
14:34:39speachyis there a bootdata version field?
14:35:45dconraddoesn't look like it, but we have 3 bytes of unused data
14:39:10dconradwith my understanding of how it works, I don't think there's a way to dynamically change the device_data payload based on the results of an i2c test to the dac though
14:39:40dconradwe would need to have separate bootloaders for hw1 and hw2, which I could see an argument for for consistency I suppose
14:41:22dconradeither way I'm not going to be able to make it happen today so we can mull it over and see how we want to report it in the debug menu I gues
14:42:50***No seen item changed, no save performed.
14:47:37_bilgus_sure you can change the payload you have the address
14:49:05dconradcan you? I thought it was hardcoded
14:49:20_bilgus_our bin gets copied to ram
14:50:16dconradhmm... I'd have to power up the dac and do the check much earlier than it currently gets done but yeah maybe I could get it to work
14:50:28_bilgus_the address of the payload points to that address in ram so yeah..
14:51:04_bilgus_you could also add a second field and do the same if taht would make it easier to determine v1 v v2
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14:53:23_bilgus_yeah none of it is even marked read only so you won't even have to do any casts
14:53:47_bilgus_ahem const sorry
14:54:07_bilgus_if we were running flash OTOH
14:56:54_bilgus_you could also wipe the crc to make it fallback in the older bootloader too
14:58:19speachydconrad: Uh, your patch changes device_data->lcd_version at runtime..?
15:00
15:00:03speachyyeah, if we were XIP out of flash, that would be different.
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15:55:56rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 5954a2fd48, 345 builds, 9 clients.
15:55:56rb-bluebotruntime info add type to clear time dialog switch to simple_list by William Wilgus
15:58:17speachydconrad: bootloader uploaded.
16:00
16:00:01speachywiki page updated too.
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16:08:08rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 733 seconds.
16:08:10rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 5954a2fd48 result: All green
16:08:12 Join dconrad [0] (~dconrad@152.117.104.232)
16:08:33dconradI guess I meant I wasn't sure that I could change it at runtime, in the bootloader
16:09:17speachyI think the intent for bootdata is for the bootloader to pass possibly runtime-derived info to the main application, it has to be passed via RAM.
16:11:25dconradthanks for updating that wiki page too
16:12:04_bilgus_while the bootloader still has control you are good for whatever after you pass control to the firmware you could change it then too just no longer from the bootloader
16:13:56dconradI'll go ahead and remove the "we don't have hw4 support yet" todo from the bottom of that page
16:14:07_bilgus_and ofc you might need to take in to account init stuff that depends on the value
16:17:21dconradright
16:18:07dconradI would also like to do it in such a way as to not break it for anyone with a hw2 unit with an older bootloader
16:18:50dconradif we suddenly do the dac check within the bootloader, it's going to fall back to swvol when they update, if they don't know they need a newer bootloader
16:19:14dconradunless we check the dac twice
16:21:09speachythis _is_ the time to do breaking bootloader changes fwiw. :D
16:21:30speachyonce we hit "stable" on this thing (ie there's an actual release) we're a little more constrained
16:21:39dconradI suppose that's true
16:21:47dconradand what the mailing list/forum thread is for
16:22:09speachyI mean all else being equal its' better to not do breaking changes, but there is a compelling technical reason here.
16:24:19speachyin this case I don't know that it matters though. no real harm in doing that hw1/hw2 in the main firmware.
16:24:57speachyyour call ultimately, I just think we should have the (to be renamed) 'lcd_version' field accurately show what we know.
16:25:17dconradyeah that's fair, and is purely mechanical anyway
16:26:01dconradI'm waffling on it now, I'll see what I can do in a couple days though
16:26:26dconradit would be nice for it to be simple and concise "here is the definitive hardware version variable"
16:26:26speachyno rush. I'm just glad the ipod6g storage insantiy seems to have stabilized.
16:26:36dconradcongrats, btw
16:26:45dconrad(as I knock on every available wood surface)
16:27:25dconraddid that also resolve other ipod storage corruption issues?
16:27:32dconrador we don't know yet
16:31:18speachythere are none that I know about
16:31:31speachy(that aren't due to flaky cabling/crappy sd cards)
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16:42:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:48:07speachydconrad: I guess we'd also need a hw4 rbutil update
16:49:25speachy_bilgus_: on an unrelated note, I don't know if you still use the X3 on a semi regular basis, but a bootloader update does file off a bunch of the more annoying warts. Notably including being able to boot off of either SD card slot.
17:00
17:01:29_bilgus_I really don't except to test stuff I like the thing its just not a great pocket item for someone that breaks anything attached to their person not that I didn't carry around a fuze+ for a while
17:04:20speachymy x3 has been run over more than once at this point
17:04:37speachyit's easily the hardiest device I've ever owned
17:05:32_bilgus_yeah that aluminum case in nice
17:05:37_bilgus_is*
17:15:25 Join dconrad [0] (~dconrad@152.117.104.232)
17:15:48dconradI swear there's some magic hardware for headphone detection we don't know about https://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,55127.msg254771/topicseen.html#msg254771
17:16:02dconradlike... it works perfectly fine for me?
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18:39:21 Quit speachy (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3)
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19:11:31 Join OlsroFR [0] (~OlsroFR@user/OlsroFR)
19:12:11OlsroFRThe 2nd gen iFlash Modded iPod Mini that is battery benchmarking on Stock OS is now still playing music and going strong after 9 hours of music playback
19:12:33OlsroFRthe battery indicator indicates me that there is still at least 1/3 of battery left
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20:31:53speachyjfc.. another big bot storm, Apple and Baidu this time.
20:33:03speachyoh, and OpenAI too.
20:42:00rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision da9d67a0fe, 345 builds, 9 clients.
20:42:01rb-bluebotButton queue handling is split from main button driver by William Wilgus
20:42:35_bilgus_I was looking at g#570
20:42:38rb-bluebotGerrit review #570 at https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/570 : Remove scroll thread and power scrollers when waiting for buttons. by Michael Sevakis
20:42:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:43:17_bilgus_I'm not so keen on the remote scroll thread part as I don't hve any devices with a remote screen
20:43:57_bilgus_I'm guessing the likelihood of finding a dev with a remote screen is probably slim to none as well
20:44:37speachyprices for the iriver h1xx/h3xx are stupidly high
20:49:04_bilgus_the iriver is also the only device we have with eprom
20:49:17_bilgus_(a real one)
20:49:53speachyis it also the only one that still uses a separate USB<->IDE interface instead of our homegrown usb stack?
20:49:58_bilgus_I think I might just implement this and see if we get fallout
20:50:51speachybtw, I need to do some OS updates on our server soonish, was thinking this weekend would be a good time
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20:59:43rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 1063 seconds.
20:59:45rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision da9d67a0fe result: All green
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21:06:33rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 12aea7dae6, 345 builds, 9 clients.
21:06:33rb-bluebots5l87xx: Add support for S5L8720 to the GPIO driver by Vencislav Atanasov
21:09:05 Join jn_ [0] (~quassel@user/jn/x-3390946)
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21:16:03_bilgus_at your leisure..
21:22:20rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 949 seconds.
21:22:22rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 12aea7dae6 result: All green
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21:53:44 Join jn [0] (~quassel@2a0a-a549-ed88-0-20d-b9ff-fe49-15fc.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de)
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22:42:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:58:44_bilgus_I can't seem to get the second half of g570 to work without crashing or not letting usb work maybe i'm missing something
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23:26:34 Quit COMPL_EXE (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

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