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| 07:21:23 | OlsroFR | Hello all :) I am back to Rockbox, I put it yesterday on my iPod Classic. I forgot how well it was running with this device, it is so fast. I noticed that when it is plugged (and charging) through my universal dock, the battery continue to decrease in Rockbox ? Is it normal ? When I unplug it, the battery percentage instantly changes from 70% to |
| 07:21:24 | OlsroFR | 95% (but it was at 100% at the beginning of the music session...). This iPod has 512GB, an iFlash Solo, and a 3000 mah battery. |
| 07:21:35 | OlsroFR | and this iPod is running the last nightly |
| 07:21:59 | OlsroFR | On Stock OS, it seems to charge just fine |
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| 07:42:42 | OlsroFR | now the battery is continue to decrease (my theme allow me to show the battery percentage while the device is charging). It's now at 68% (currently playing music with screen always ON at maximum backlight) |
| 07:44:57 | Xogium | maybe you should decrease the backlight and avoid it always on ? That will eat a lot of battery... |
| 07:46:16 | OlsroFR | yeah but the Stock OS can charge just fine and stay at 100% no problem with backlight ON (there's the wall plug icon in this case, which indicates that the battery is fully charged) |
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| 08:36:09 | Xogium | what does it mean ? I get a ton of these in dmesg |
| 08:36:10 | Xogium | hid-generic 0003:05AC:1209.0048: control queue full |
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| 08:59:43 | _bilgus_ | OlsroFR, a guess would be that we aren't switching to the proper regulator to not draw power from the battery |
| 09:00 |
| 09:01:34 | _bilgus_ | Assuming its known its trivial since its an apple PROBABLY NOT.. more likely to find a worm |
| 09:03:24 | _bilgus_ | Xogium, we have a hid mode on the devices that emulates the keyboard api, it sends battery level notifications and does different usb modes while emulating a keyboard |
| 09:03:41 | _bilgus_ | maybe that? |
| 09:03:43 | OlsroFR | so until this is fixed, does this mean that I need to recharge it on the Stock OS ? |
| 09:04:32 | _bilgus_ | OlsroFR, in theory idle current should be under charge current maybe just leave it idle while charging? |
| 09:05:13 | OlsroFR | I can try. Another theory that I have is that Rockbox battery percentage is just completely incorrect with 3000 mah batteries in general |
| 09:05:41 | OlsroFR | for example, as I said, as soon as I undock the iPod, the battery percentage jumps from 66% to around 95% |
| 09:06:00 | _bilgus_ | that could be but its reading the adc so you'd think the same would apply |
| 09:06:21 | _bilgus_ | and it wouldn't go down either |
| 09:08:33 | _bilgus_ | could also be something weird like its drawing too much and the device doesn't have enough left to run but that seems highly unlikely unless thre is like something we are missing to switch from trickle to full or visavis |
| 09:08:50 | OlsroFR | it is running at maximum brightness + screen always ON |
| 09:09:17 | _bilgus_ | but the OF does it just fine so prob not the battery |
| 09:09:44 | OlsroFR | right now it's changing the percentage every seconds. Switching between 66% and 67% |
| 09:10:37 | OlsroFR | I just unplugged it: instantly changed to 93% |
| 09:10:49 | OlsroFR | I plugged it back, it instantly changed to 66% |
| 09:11:17 | _bilgus_ | could be an issue with the battery |
| 09:11:50 | _bilgus_ | and it could be an isue with the adc or even the settings to the adc |
| 09:11:54 | OlsroFR | I used this iPod a lot on Stock OS, and on Stock OS it's full for a while, it can last a lot of hours |
| 09:12:15 | OlsroFR | The Universal Dock is brand new and looking in perfect shape |
| 09:12:31 | _bilgus_ | I'd say hook up a meter to it and see whos lying |
| 09:13:25 | OlsroFR | I am using an USB port on a multitap with an official cable. That cable in the plugged into the Universal Dock to provide power |
| 09:13:39 | OlsroFR | the iPod is a 7.5G (2012 model) |
| 09:14:30 | _bilgus_ | if you have a small resistor (10 ohms or so) you could put it inline and measure across it it doesn't need to be precision or anything to verify you get x volts across it charging in RB and y volts in OF |
| 09:15:01 | _bilgus_ | V= IR so I=v\r |
| 09:15:38 | _bilgus_ | then you'd know instead of us speculating |
| 09:18:26 | _bilgus_ | should be small enough amperage you could run it through a meter on the amps mode and be good enough |
| 09:19:08 | OlsroFR | I don't have that. I booted Stock OS and enabled screen always ON here too. I tested that new dock very recently yesterday but with my iPod Video, not with this one. I am now letting it charge like this, and see if it's going to be fully charged here in a while. |
| 09:19:09 | _bilgus_ | again it won't be super precise but a 200 ma in OF vs 150 in RB would tell you |
| 09:19:35 | _bilgus_ | dvms are literally 5 dollars from china |
| 09:24:17 | _bilgus_ | well screw amazon why have a high to low option if low just has 10 pages of junk under 50 cents and high to low is 300 - 200 |
| 09:24:47 | _bilgus_ | anyway I assume they still exist |
| 09:25:31 | OlsroFR | I don't even have the multimeter, so I will not do this |
| 09:28:10 | _bilgus_ | there they are the HARBOR FRIGHT https://www.amazon.com/Generic-DT-830B-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter/dp/B0DB5HLGBV |
| 09:28:59 | _bilgus_ | get one test it do some leg work so we know where to look |
| 09:30:34 | _bilgus_ | if you don't have accurate way to measure you'll just be speculating what ifs with some numbers we might figure out the why and how |
| 09:31:53 | _bilgus_ | I did similar with a clip+ to figure out a low power mode and to cut down on idle current |
| 09:32:59 | _bilgus_ | still have it in fact with a Phoenix connector on fly leads to hold a resistor or meter leads |
| 09:33:25 | OlsroFR | I feel kinda strange that a device that is so popular can still have a problem like that on Rockbox. I just started to use that Dock yesterday. Maybe my power source is now reliable enough. I know what I need to do; I am going to plug back my BOSE SoundDock II which is a kind of "trusted" dock to handle the recharge. |
| 09:33:35 | OlsroFR | Then let's see if percentage are still decreasing there on Rockbox |
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| 10:41:35 | OlsroFR | OK the battery was decreasing here too, exactly the same way |
| 10:42:20 | OlsroFR | So I can isolate that my Universal Dock, or the charging cable, or the multitap that has an USB port, is not the problem |
| 10:46:42 | OlsroFR | Now I am letting the iPod charge on Stock OS with the screen ON + backlight at maximum. Let's see if it's going to refill completely. If it never recharges completely, this means that even Stock OS on the iPod Classic can't recharge really this way. And to fix my issue, I will just configure Rockbox to shut down the screen most of the time... |
| 10:56:21 | Xogium | does rb handle replaygain tags like R128_ALBUM_GAIN ? |
| 10:59:00 | LeN3rd | Heyo i got a iPod Classic with an iFlash Quad. It stops the music at random then after a while repeats the last played second on a loop. in that mode ui is still usable and i can even stop and start the music but it keeps looping the last played second. after a while it runs into `*PANIC* dc_writeback_callback () - Could not write sector 21127777 |
| 10:59:00 | LeN3rd | (error -23)` any idea how i can fix that or debug it further? |
| 10:59:53 | Xogium | when in doubt, try new micro sd cards... A lot of them are fakes that don't last |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:26 | OlsroFR | I know that this error happens when Rockbox try to wake up your adapter. To save power, Rockbox try to shut it down as soon as possible. For some reason, Rockbox could not access data after waking in up. This happenned a lot with my 1TB old sandisk card, but should never appear with decent cards |
| 11:01:27 | OlsroFR | About the iFlash Quad, there's no data protection or such thing. If you put 4 cards in it, if only one is faulty at any time, your whole setup is ruined. I prefer Solo for that reason; it reduces the failure points |
| 11:02:07 | OlsroFR | Xogium To my knowledge, there's even options to enable or disable ReplayGain. You can open the contextual menu in any song to check the tags: rockbox will tell you the "gain" if it detects a replaygain tag |
| 11:02:24 | LeN3rd | okay yeah i installed refurbed sandisk cards.. i will order new ones and see if that error persists |
| 11:02:24 | Xogium | sandisk is usually decent, tbh, unless you got a fake. Fwiw sandisk is the most faked brand of micro sd |
| 11:03:05 | Xogium | and if you buy on amazon, you have no idea if you're going to get the real deal or not due to how things are stored in the storage containers −− amazon may store fakes with the real ones, so it's up to anyone's guess which one you get when your order |
| 11:03:48 | LeN3rd | so i just order at sandisk directly? |
| 11:03:54 | | Join OlsroFR79 [0] (~OlsroFR@user/OlsroFR) |
| 11:03:59 | LeN3rd | or do you recommend another brand? |
| 11:04:04 | Xogium | might be best, if you want to be 100% sure to avoid fakes |
| 11:04:16 | Xogium | I think they got bought by western digital though |
| 11:05:28 | Xogium | thing is that on amazon, no matter which brand you pick you can never be sure of what you'll get. You might be lucky and get the real thing, or you could get a very convincing fake −− I once had one where the sandisk logo was identical to the original, except at the wrong angle |
| 11:05:46 | Xogium | and the red color was a bit off |
| 11:06:09 | LeN3rd | alright thanks for the input! will try new sd cards and see how it goes. |
| 11:06:23 | Xogium | it could also be your adapter as OlsroFR suggested |
| 11:06:27 | Xogium | as in |
| 11:06:40 | | Quit OlsroFR (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:06:41 | Xogium | if even one of the cards in it is bogus it'll go bonkers |
| 11:07:08 | | Join OlsroFR [0] (OlsroFR@user/OlsroFR) |
| 11:07:22 | OlsroFR | Check the https://www.iflash.xyz/store/iflash-quad/ compatiblity list here |
| 11:07:34 | OlsroFR | there is a section "SD Cards" |
| 11:08:10 | | Quit OlsroFR79 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:08:17 | LeN3rd | yeah it is probably one card. i switched the positions of the cards. and the sector that couldnt be read moved. but afterwards it was persistent with each error |
| 11:09:23 | OlsroFR | OK now the iPod is fully charged _bilgus_ on Stock OS + max brightness + connected on the BOSE SoundDock II speaker for a while. So with max brightness, it can charge, on Stock OS. |
| 11:09:58 | OlsroFR | I think the problem is now pretty isolated so Rockbox can be accusated pretty safely |
| 11:11:08 | OlsroFR | About the software issue by itself and a possible low power mode to enable, I don't have the knowledge at all to go any further anyway but I am glad that I could find and report a problem on this model |
| 11:11:58 | OlsroFR | I am going to Rockbox my iPod Video and try to play music the same way. I am now very curious to see if this model is affected too. |
| 11:12:48 | Xogium | I have ipod video as well, but mine can't be trusted as it def needs battery replacement |
| 11:13:05 | OlsroFR | mine can be very trusted, I used it a lot during weeks and had a recent 3000 mah replacement |
| 11:13:08 | _bilgus_ | whatever you say you still can't rule out the battery calculation vs a missing setting does your debug screen give you raw volttage levels? |
| 11:13:57 | _bilgus_ | wht about the OF does it have a way to sample battery levels and display them? |
| 11:14:11 | Xogium | note that advertised 3000 mah often can't be trusted as the actual capacity will vary. If you're lucky it'll be 2600 ~2700 but some batteries are know to go even under 1900 |
| 11:14:28 | _bilgus_ | if not then I don't know if I'd call this apples to apples here |
| 11:14:55 | _bilgus_ | Xogium, replay gain.. yes (limited?) |
| 11:15:16 | OlsroFR | I have a "View battery" in the debug screen |
| 11:15:27 | Xogium | hmm |
| 11:15:35 | OlsroFR | Battery 4.210V |
| 11:15:35 | OlsroFR | 4.2.10-4.238V (5mV) |
| 11:15:37 | _bilgus_ | what about in the apple OF? |
| 11:15:54 | OlsroFR | let's see |
| 11:15:56 | Xogium | show track info in file browser at least does not seem to pick up track gain or anything like that, not sure if it should display that but assuming yes |
| 11:16:30 | _bilgus_ | Xogium, I've seen the code give me a second to look where |
| 11:17:00 | Xogium | also hdd is ruining the crossfade effect a bit lol |
| 11:18:52 | _bilgus_ | Xogium, https://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipod6g/rockbox-buildch7.html#x14-1340007.10 |
| 11:19:33 | _bilgus_ | Xogium, you may want to tamp down limits some so it can buffer more songs |
| 11:20:12 | _bilgus_ | how much ram does your device have? I'd think itd have plenty buffered.. |
| 11:20:28 | OlsroFR | there is no tool in Stock OS recovery that can show the current power draw in real time, it looks like |
| 11:20:42 | OlsroFR | (I tried the tools in the diagnostic menu |
| 11:20:55 | _bilgus_ | so no real comparison I guess |
| 11:21:28 | _bilgus_ | you'd think thered be one somewhere in the dev menus :/ |
| 11:21:47 | _bilgus_ | even chinese tablet makers do that |
| 11:22:31 | _bilgus_ | you know the real issue with ipods is not the popularity its the lack of developer documentation |
| 11:22:54 | _bilgus_ | black box reverse engineering is hard |
| 11:23:26 | Xogium | ipod video 5 has 32 mb of ram |
| 11:23:29 | OlsroFR | Yeah I often think how something so advanced like Rockbox on such closed devices is really hard work and almost a miracle |
| 11:23:47 | OlsroFR | especially on the iPod Classics that are much more locked and with encryption involved to prevent tampering |
| 11:24:36 | _bilgus_ | so how often is the disk spiining up during crossfade? |
| 11:27:09 | _bilgus_ | I guess after we take into account the large plugin buffer you might have 30 mb left so what 2 flac tracks or 4 mp3s? |
| 11:29:00 | Xogium | lets see |
| 11:29:15 | Xogium | would manual seek show the same numbers as automatic in this case ? |
| 11:30:31 | Xogium | 6 with opus |
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| 11:46:21 | Mode | "#rockbox +v speachy" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.libera.chat) |
| 11:47:05 | speachy | LeN3rd: It wasn't mentioned but please make sure you're using a relatively recent (<2-3mo) daily build instead of 3.15 |
| 11:47:28 | Xogium | 3.15 is that bad huh ? |
| 11:49:04 | speachy | Also, when you say "iPod Classic" are you referring to what Apple called the "iPod Classic" or just the generic term for "full size hdd-based ipod" |
| 11:49:41 | speachy | Xogium: when it comes to the iFlash SD adapters, yes. |
| 11:49:55 | hactar|ant | got a bottle i'm saving for the day 4.0 drops |
| 11:49:58 | OlsroFR | In this conversation, it means "iPod 6g or newer". I precised that my model is a 2012 7.5G (running the Stock OS 2.0.5 firmware) |
| 11:50:09 | Xogium | huh. That's damn good to know because I was planning on eventually getting an iflash cf |
| 11:50:34 | speachy | but even putting that aside, ther ehave bneen over 5 years of improvements and fixes since 3.15 |
| 11:50:53 | Xogium | so why were there no new release ? Just curious, mind |
| 11:51:12 | speachy | OlsroFR: btw wrt your charging discrepancy, given the level is reported "accurately" when it's no longer charging I'd wager this is purely a display/reporting problem. |
| 11:51:38 | speachy | reading the battery level when the battery is being actively charged is... questionable. |
| 11:52:00 | OlsroFR | the strange thing +speachy is that when it go back to normal, it still lose some %. And when I switched back to Stock OS, it took a while to be fully charged again |
| 11:52:07 | speachy | maybe Apple did something special like suspend charging, waiting a settling period, then read the level, before resuming. |
| 11:52:23 | OlsroFR | I started its life this morning at 100%, and was around 90/95% each time undocked |
| 11:52:27 | speachy | pretty sure on those devices charging is entirely done in hardware. |
| 11:53:47 | OlsroFR | I am now stressing the iPod Video. Almost same conditions (but different music files, AAC 128kbps CVBR rather than 220 TVBR): brightness at maximum and screen never sleep. This iPod does not seems to change the % aggressively each time I undock it. The battery percentage don't increase. It started 1 hour ago at 90%: now it is at 89%. |
| 11:54:06 | OlsroFR | 17h30* sorry, not 16h30 |
| 11:54:07 | speachy | Xogium: up until fairly recently just the mechanical steps in cutting a release was a pretty lavor intensive process. |
| 11:54:36 | speachy | labor |
| 11:54:56 | speachy | and the usual things like life getting in the way of plans |
| 11:55:17 | speachy | for most folks it doesn't really make much of a difference, but the iFlash SD cards required a lot of work to figure out. |
| 11:56:12 | speachy | OlsroFR: to be frank, without the ability to measure current across the USB cable (and to a lesser extent, the battery itself) there's not a whole lot one can meaningfully do. |
| 11:57:27 | speachy | I bought one of these five years ago, for example: tps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FMQZVW2 |
| 11:58:17 | OlsroFR | I can also remember something interesting +speachy. Months ago, with my first iPod Classic with an imcort sd adapter, Rockbox had a bug: it was shutting down the flash adapter. So I had a good battery life with it (and I was not using rockbox to transfer new musics so corruption was not much an issue for me at this moment). And I could recharge it |
| 11:58:17 | OlsroFR | under the rockbox environment just fine. |
| 11:58:18 | OlsroFR | Then, the bug got fixed in a later nightly because doing this was not allright, so it was decided again to never shut down flash adapters (it was months before the October 2024 fix). Since this patch, the battery life on rockbox was awful, but I can also remember that it was not even charging anymore: I could let it plugged for hours and the |
| 11:58:18 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK OlsroFR |
| 11:58:18 | OlsroFR | battery was not recharging outside of Stock OS. |
| 11:59:17 | OlsroFR | Here the context feel almost the same, but rather than using a lot of energy because of the storage device, it's about the screen. I am seriously feeling like (and will do tests) that enabling auto shutdown and screen sleep will make the bug undetectable again as it will be able to stay around 100% all the time and even recharge a bit if it was |
| 11:59:18 | OlsroFR | below |
| 11:59:41 | speachy | the primary problem with the iFlash adapters was write corruption. the power management stuff was a secondary issue. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:02 | OlsroFR | Yep but if you remember well, the condition was inverted and it was doing for a while in nightly the inverse stuff |
| 12:00:07 | speachy | _any_ write could go wrong, and that included things like playlists, bookmarks, and settings being saved. |
| 12:00:07 | OlsroFR | flash adapters were shut down anyway |
| 12:00:35 | OlsroFR | So I remember my first times with my first iPod Classic and could get tons of hours on Rockbox until that patch arrived to fix that condition |
| 12:00:41 | speachy | At this point in time, power is bieng physically turned off to the storage device |
| 12:01:06 | speachy | so any battery life issues in current code vs (eg) 3.15 are unrelated. |
| 12:02:00 | hactar|ant | is the documentation being kept current with the nightlies? or is that more a 4.0 sort of goal |
| 12:02:03 | speachy | there was a lot of churn in the middle as different things were tried. the write corruption was _accidently_ fixed for a while. |
| 12:02:10 | OlsroFR | I was not using 3.15, I was using older nightlies |
| 12:02:33 | speachy | hactar|ant: the manual is current, the wiki is largely out of date even wrt 3.15 |
| 12:03:02 | hactar|ant | i know there have been changes to ui tags lately |
| 12:03:46 | speachy | the MajorChanges and ReleaseNotes400 pages are current as of about a week ago |
| 12:04:19 | speachy | current diffstat from v3.15: 4091 files changed, 3048296 insertions(+), 1474232 deletions(-) |
| 12:08:06 | hactar|ant | where are the macos sim builds? or are they not ready yet |
| 12:08:17 | speachy | excluding fonts, it's +394592 -256761 for a net gain of 137831 lines of code |
| 12:08:34 | Xogium | niceness |
| 12:08:57 | Xogium | and yeah about life getting in the way and other things, I perfectly understand. Like I said, curiosity |
| 12:09:00 | OlsroFR | OK 886060475e25d04b9eb1753dbbaea0db8b78a0d4 it was this commit by yourself. "Use of ata_disk_can_poweroff() was inverted, resulting in SATA SSDs getting powered off but leaving _everything_ else on, including spinning rust!" +speachy you commited this the 22 April 2024. |
| 12:09:15 | speachy | OlsroFR: yes, so? |
| 12:09:23 | speachy | I mean I don't understand what that has to do with anyting _now_. |
| 12:10:02 | speachy | development is messy, especially when you don't physically have access to the devices in question |
| 12:10:38 | OlsroFR | look what I've wrote. I could reproduce the battery not charging/drain when charging at this time when storage device remained always up. So it's slightly related that increasing power demanding actions on rockbox = affects the charging. |
| 12:10:48 | OlsroFR | that's what I wanted to say |
| 12:11:11 | OlsroFR | oh and I just checked again the iPod Video, it lost another percentage. It's now at 88%. |
| 12:11:40 | speachy | I wonder if the USB port isn't supplying sufficient current to keep up |
| 12:11:40 | OlsroFR | Now I just down the screen, and music is continuing to play through the Dock. I will check it again in 30 minutes. Let's see what happen. |
| 12:11:48 | speachy | USB is current-limited. |
| 12:11:59 | Xogium | I mean |
| 12:12:19 | Xogium | it's possible in theory to have a device consuming more battery faster than it can be recharged |
| 12:12:23 | speachy | maybe this dock requires some special sauce in order to supply higher current. |
| 12:12:42 | OlsroFR | +speachy in order to make good tests, I stopped using my other setup (universal dock + multitape with integrated usb port + official charging cable. I did further tests using my BOSE SoundDock II (which is also charging by the USB protocol, not the Firewire one like the BOSE SoundDock I who can charge even older iPods) |
| 12:13:34 | speachy | OlsroFR: plug it into a PC (or Mac or wahtever) while holding select so the device works as usual. See if the same power situation happens. |
| 12:13:35 | OlsroFR | I felt like that BOSE SoundDock II is a more reliable chain to be sure. From my today observations, it behaves exactly the same as my new setup. Percentage were dropping at the same speed with my iPod Classic. |
| 12:14:11 | OlsroFR | +speachy Ok, let's do that with my iPod Classic 7.5G |
| 12:14:43 | speachy | on the ipod6g+, rockbox has zero control over charging; it is informed by the hardware what is going on. |
| 12:14:55 | speachy | (as in "charging" vs "not charging") |
| 12:16:16 | OlsroFR | Interesting. So it may just mean that Rockbox (for some reason) draws more power than the Stock OS, and more power (enough) to disturb the charging process. |
| 12:16:43 | speachy | or that the dock isn't supplying sufficient current |
| 12:16:55 | OlsroFR | (Also, like I said, I am at max brightness constantly with screen always ON, which seems not to be a common use case with Rockbox) |
| 12:17:09 | speachy | becuase rockbox isn't doing some magic incantation with non-stnadard USB signalling. |
| 12:17:25 | speachy | doesn't StockOS aggressively turn off the display, even when docked? |
| 12:17:36 | OlsroFR | You can disable it and I disabled it in the settings to be always ON |
| 12:18:02 | speachy | USB, absent any special negotiations, is current-limited to 100mA. |
| 12:18:03 | OlsroFR | There was no dimming, it stayed at max brightness. I saw the battery animation all along. Then, after a while, it indicated me that it was fully recharged |
| 12:18:54 | OlsroFR | playback just started on my Classic. It is now plugged on my PC. Current battery: 98% |
| 12:19:01 | OlsroFR | screen max brightness, always ON, let's see |
| 12:19:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:19:46 | speachy | the apple firmware could be doing something to set the USB signal lines (or something else exposed on the 30 pin connector) in a certian way that tells the dock to supply more power. |
| 12:20:28 | speachy | point being there are two sides to this; current _supply_ as well as current _demand_. |
| 12:20:46 | OlsroFR | maybe. Now it is connected to PC, let's see how it behaves. I can do another test later if you want but with an USB wall plug directly plugged to the iPod. |
| 12:21:27 | OlsroFR | USB wall plug -> Official charging cable -> iPod |
| 12:21:27 | OlsroFR | So no Dock implying here. The only difference compared to a direct PC connection will be the lack of data connection |
| 12:21:49 | OlsroFR | (capabilities) |
| 12:22:12 | Xogium | here since I'm totally blind I set max brightness to 1, and turned off the backlight permanently. My battery that is very tired now drops from 100% to 86% in about an hour |
| 12:22:54 | OlsroFR | Lol my iPod Classic is now increasing battery when playing Music |
| 12:23:01 | OlsroFR | I started at 98%. It is now at 100% |
| 12:23:17 | Xogium | it's just an estmiation either way |
| 12:23:20 | OlsroFR | Bliking between 99% and 100% more exactly. Each seconds it changes |
| 12:23:22 | Xogium | *estimation, even |
| 12:23:46 | speachy | there ya go, problem is that the dock isn't supplying sufficient power. |
| 12:24:16 | speachy | it is TBD if it's supplying the _same_ amount of power either way. |
| 12:24:40 | OlsroFR | I am going now to try the iPod Classic playing back music but plugged directly to the charger, not to the PC, to check if there's a difference |
| 12:25:16 | speachy | ie we odn't know if rockbox is drawing more, or the dock is supplying less, or if the dock is behaving the same either way and the stock OS is simply more power efficient in this particular test scenario. |
| 12:25:48 | Xogium | biggest difference is that unlike on pc, most chargers won't care how much current you draw and won't give a damn about any protocols to ask nicely if your device can draw more current than the typical 100 mA |
| 12:26:10 | OlsroFR | mmm let's not use an USB wall plug, but the USB plug from the same multitap that is powering the Dock, it's better |
| 12:26:39 | OlsroFR | so this will isolates if the Dock makes it different |
| 12:27:04 | OlsroFR | music playback started now, at 98% of battery |
| 12:27:26 | OlsroFR | let's see what happen in a few minutes |
| 12:28:16 | OlsroFR | 99% of battery just now ! |
| 12:28:45 | OlsroFR | So when the iPod is plugged directly to the multitap USB port it's not discharging |
| 12:30:09 | OlsroFR | New test started now (battery is at 98%): iPod is docked (but the dock is not connected with a jack port) and charging from the PC |
| 12:30:35 | OlsroFR | it just switched back to 99% |
| 12:32:19 | OlsroFR | I connected back the dock to my speakers. Same setup: the dock is plugged into the PC. |
| 12:32:41 | OlsroFR | battery is now at 99% |
| 12:34:13 | OlsroFR | I just check the battery of my iPod Video that is music playbacking on my BOSE SoundDock II: it is now at 93%. It was a 88% 20 minutes ago. It was this time playbacking music with screen constantly off. |
| 12:34:22 | OlsroFR | at* 88% |
| 12:35:35 | OlsroFR | So I am happy: I have an (ugly) self-fix that will work right away by changing the auto-screen off/screen sleep settings to even get the iPod to charge, rather than discharge itself. |
| 12:42:27 | OlsroFR | I feel like I found also some kind of bug/oddity. I set a maximum volume limit to 0 db in the rockbox settings. When I want to increase the volume with the clickwheel, no problem, it can't go over. But if I use the remote from the universal dock, I can still increase the volume a bit. The audio does not sound/feel satured or strange. |
| 12:42:52 | OlsroFR | I don't know if it's really a bug or if the Universal Dock is known to be able to handle more than the 0 db conventional limit |
| 12:47:40 | Xogium | I don't think it is even aware of the volume |
| 12:48:11 | OlsroFR | the iPod OS is very aware of the volume with the universal dock, even on Stock OS. Using this Dock, the volume works in some kind of synchronized way |
| 12:48:29 | Xogium | I was specifically talking about rb here |
| 12:48:36 | OlsroFR | The Universal Dock does not output LINE-OUT 0 db, it's a real feature that you can control volume not only with the volume but also with the iPod OS |
| 12:48:43 | Xogium | rb is probably not even aware of communication with the dock |
| 12:48:44 | OlsroFR | mmmm |
| 12:49:00 | OlsroFR | Rockbox supports in fact communication with the dock through the Apple protocol |
| 12:49:06 | OlsroFR | I am 100% sure of that |
| 12:49:12 | Xogium | yes but maybe not for *everything* |
| 12:49:13 | OlsroFR | on the iPod Video, Rockbox even supports the FM radio |
| 12:49:34 | OlsroFR | who knows. But I am very happy how it does handle the Universal Dock |
| 12:50:31 | OlsroFR | So to conclude, the iPod Classic is still at 99% of battery. Playing music since 20 minutes at max brightness and max allowed volume by using the remote from the Universal Dock. I feel like it's not really charging, but it is very stable. It's maybe placebo but I feel like it was decreasing a bit faster than this morning. The dock is connected to |
| 12:50:32 | OlsroFR | the PC this time. But I also listened to music during several hours today. It's good to me now. I will adjust the brightness and the display auto shutdown. |
| 12:52:00 | OlsroFR | I did not try also to let the screen always ON but to reduce the brightness to 75 or 50%. It probably helps too. But I feel like I don't need to see the screen all the time anyway. I will just enable that cool option to put the screen back on each time the track changes, and it will be good for me |
| 12:52:59 | OlsroFR | I see I got some feedback also from Christian on 2 of my old patches that never got merged, I am going to take a look into these. I love these features, I would be happy if anyone could enjoy these to be able to shuffle albums easily or play albums in order from the tagtree ;) |
| 12:55:40 | OlsroFR | glad to see that speachy, bilgus are still around to help. I was still into iPods last months but switched back to the Stock OS for a while. I was using Stock OS with my CDs encoded as chaptered whole tracks trick. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:36 | OlsroFR | With my screen of the iPod Classic I also don't notice a brightness difference between level "50" to "63" |
| 13:00:53 | OlsroFR | so maybe I was just wasting power by setting it to 63 while there's no meaningful difference to do it |
| 13:04:41 | | Join othello7 [0] (~Thunderbi@pool-100-36-176-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:13:29 | OlsroFR | thanks again for all the help and for your time :) much appreciated as always |
| 13:13:34 | | Quit OlsroFR (Quit: Client closed) |
| 13:25:26 | LeN3rd | speachy just read your messages. I even went that far and compiled it myself. also with classic i meant iPod Video :D |
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| 14:00:34 | _bilgus_ | we are using about 40k of ram for settings currently 11k for settings[] in settings_list.c and another ~28k in cfg_name strings and some more with string lists and stuff |
| 14:01:08 | _bilgus_ | it averages about 15 characters per setting cfg_name |
| 14:03:21 | _bilgus_ | I wonder how INIT_ATTR_DATA handles string does it go into init.bss or something or do strings get left in the bin? |
| 14:09:10 | _bilgus_ | my experiment atm is making the settings struct INIT_ATTR_DATA and at boot loading a new one in ram along with a hash of the strings and position and saving them to a file this allows me to hopefully dump them to a file containing a big list of strings and when it comes time to save settings you open the string file and look them up as you write the settings |
| 14:11:41 | _bilgus_ | the other option is to write out a complete settings file once and just save theoffset of the settings entry |
| 14:12:22 | _bilgus_ | then next boot you do all the offset checking but if its the same you don't write a new file you just save the offsets |
| 14:12:42 | Xogium | so I can't seem to decide... CF card or sd for my setup really ? Is rockbox behaving a bit better with sd these days, or is cf still prefered ? I honestly am not sure. Assuming latest git, that is |
| 14:13:01 | _bilgus_ | thats the idea at least probably not worth the complexity |
| 14:13:37 | _bilgus_ | other thought was hashing and compressing the strings but I bet its a wash |
| 14:19:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:30:15 | _bilgus_ | the settings cfgname strings have some repetition but I doubt enough to make RLE worth it either |
| 14:31:47 | _bilgus_ | could move them all to lowercase and encode them using some form of BASE64 |
| 14:34:46 | _bilgus_ | base 32 should work 5 bits per chr brings it down to 17k |
| 14:35:09 | _bilgus_ | but probably less after you apply wastage |
| 14:35:22 | _bilgus_ | bring down less like 20k |
| 14:37:08 | _bilgus_ | and 1k for the hashes |
| 14:42:09 | _bilgus_ | I guess the hash can go away and just store the base32 and use memcmp |
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| 15:03:30 | | Quit speachy (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1) |
| 15:04:26 | Xogium | I really have no idea what to settle on |
| 15:04:54 | Xogium | would a sandisk extreme pro cf card of modern days even work ? |
| 15:06:44 | Xogium | or even sandisk extreme cf card without the pro thing |
| 15:08:27 | Xogium | by the way does the video chip in the ipod video now works ? Just curious |
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| 15:11:06 | OlsroFR | Hello Xogium. CF cards are expensive, and the green board is noisy during disk accesses on iPod Videos/Classics. Not recommended. Also, Rockbox does not support the video chip, and it will drain your battery fast. Use Stock OS for videos and official clickwheel games. |
| 15:11:37 | OlsroFR | Now that Rockbox supports decent disk power management with iPod Videos & Classics, I recommend you to just get an iFlash Solo and to use a compatible SD card |
| 15:11:56 | OlsroFR | https://www.iflash.xyz/store/iflash-solo/ you can find a list of tested cards here |
| 15:13:42 | Xogium | hmm well according to the manual cf card are still the prefered medium because they support the full ata command set |
| 15:14:37 | OlsroFR | Don't worry for that. Rockbox cut power on hardware level, it basically removes the power supply related to disk. They also fixed corruption issues by flushing all data to write before cutting down power with the iFlash adapter |
| 15:15:03 | OlsroFR | (excepted on ipod minis and 4th gens because of a bug) |
| 15:15:11 | OlsroFR | (but on iPod Videos and Classic it's fine) |
| 15:15:43 | OlsroFR | The only remaining advantage about CF card is the lower power consumption in general but the difference is marginal |
| 15:16:04 | _bilgus_ | haha its nearly 2x as large in BASE32 |
| 15:21:51 | Xogium | so the solo is what, full sd size or ? |
| 15:22:02 | OlsroFR | you can use adapters if you wanna use a microSD |
| 15:22:05 | OlsroFR | it will work perfect |
| 15:22:18 | Xogium | ah okay. Just asking because I do have a full sd, so |
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| 15:25:45 | Xogium | I also don't use that full sd anymore... I actually dislike micro sd |
| 15:26:12 | Xogium | the number of times I dropped one, heard it pinging everywhere in the room and just sighed and bought another one, knowing I could never put my finger on the lost one again |
| 15:34:14 | _bilgus_ | well makes sense after looking at how the function works |
| 15:35:35 | OlsroFR | Once you put it in your iPod Xogium, it will stay here "forever" locked in |
| 15:43:40 | _bilgus_ | maybe this idea https://github.com/antirez/smaz/blob/master/README |
| 15:47:48 | _bilgus_ | idk i'll play with this for a bit there might be enough repitition across the settings to get something meaningfully smaller |
| 15:50:04 | _bilgus_ | you'd still have to carry the hash and decoder around |
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