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| 04:16:32 | OlsroFR | Received today my new iPod (old) dock with the S-Video port and black big dot in front. This dock accepts both my modded USB cable and a real firewire brick ! Now even with screen constantly ON, it charges on Rockbox. |
| 04:17:03 | OlsroFR | Though with a real firewire brick, I get annoying electrical noises. But with the modded USB cable that charges at firewire speed, it's all fine. |
| 04:20:01 | CH23 | interesting. I always chose the apple usb chargers because they were quiet. never tried with the firewire one |
| 04:20:38 | OlsroFR | I also received an USB charger, but for some reason, it does not work. The USB chargers also work great in Rockbox in many scenarios. Since I forced usb charging, it's perfect for all my older iPods. |
| 04:20:52 | OlsroFR | Videos, minis, 4th gen mono -> they can all charge reliably over USB on Rockbox :) |
| 04:21:09 | OlsroFR | Only the Classics are un-reliable |
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| 07:26:33 | _bilgus | CH23, that 'one' charger could be defective too |
| 07:34:13 | CH23 | very true |
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| 08:21:55 | MarcAndersen | Any |
| 08:22:29 | MarcAndersen | Why is this happening with mingw? https://pastebin.com/H3w5VXCz |
| 08:23:03 | MarcAndersen | It has something to do with the new things i bookmark.c or string-extra.h but I don't get it. |
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| 08:48:39 | dook | _bilgus: thank you! |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:41 | _bilgus | MarcAndersen, thats my fault, it doesn't match the std definition but apparently it still has a namespce conflict bc your system supploes it |
| 09:01:01 | _bilgus | I'll rename it and push a pach |
| 09:01:14 | _bilgus | paTch |
| 09:01:20 | speachy | tbh I'm surprised it worked on SDL targets too |
| 09:01:28 | speachy | wonder why windows is pulling stdlib.h in |
| 09:03:33 | speachy | _bilgus: imo should move our definition of itoa into our libc instead of the tagcache code. |
| 09:04:16 | speachy | (and move the implementation out of the bookmark code into libc too) |
| 09:06:33 | _bilgus | k |
| 09:06:57 | _bilgus | you mean the fallback I assume |
| 09:07:21 | _bilgus | can't do that bc it gets used in plugins |
| 09:07:52 | speachy | well, it's a nonstandard variation so we can't fall back to a system itoa? |
| 09:08:31 | speachy | (...this is why I'm surprised it worked for hosted+sim builds) |
| 09:09:57 | _bilgus | truly they could just use printf like before its really on device where the extra speed and lower stack is noticeable |
| 09:11:07 | speachy | ah I missed that the bookmark.c thing was a fallback, and the main implementtation was in a separate file. |
| 09:11:07 | _bilgus | I'll just not do it in libc at all and put it in misc with a different name, int_to_buf? |
| 09:11:33 | speachy | or rb_itoa() |
| 09:12:03 | _bilgus | just that none of the itoas use a buffer like so |
| 09:12:43 | speachy | I just wonder about discoverability |
| 09:13:08 | _bilgus | good point |
| 09:13:28 | _bilgus | lseek is bad enough :p |
| 09:20:31 | MarcAndersen | So that means that you had an idea about it would happen? |
| 09:21:44 | speachy | ...honestly I'm surprised it worked for any non-native build given that itoa() is pulled in by stdlib.h normally |
| 09:22:35 | MarcAndersen | But you think that my mingw is fine as it is? |
| 09:22:58 | speachy | but mingw has surprised us plenty of times with its own quirks. I still haven't updated my builders to the point where they can build a winsim successfully, so we don't have an automated way to catch crap like this. |
| 09:23:17 | speachy | yes, it's not a problem with your environment; the problem is quite clearly in the rockbox codebase. |
| 09:23:26 | _bilgus | I mean its got something pulling it in right but that shouldn't bother anything |
| 09:24:15 | MarcAndersen | I just wish I had the brain to learn c properly. |
| 09:24:26 | _bilgus | and for the record I had no idea it would I figured the non std definition would make it ok |
| 09:24:51 | speachy | C doesn't allow two functions with the same name. |
| 09:25:03 | _bilgus | yeah namespace conflict |
| 09:25:05 | speachy | C _macros_ however can have the same name if the number of arguments are different |
| 09:25:30 | speachy | ...so if itoa() is defined as a macro, we're good. |
| 09:26:50 | _bilgus | compilers often provide it through the header <stdlib.h> while in non-conforming mode |
| 09:27:00 | _bilgus | whats non conforming mode? |
| 09:27:52 | _bilgus | maybe thats the reason the difference in mingw or do we need that to even compile US |
| 09:29:09 | speachy | we are definitely non-conforming in bare-metal mode as we don't have a full c lib. |
| 09:29:34 | speachy | ("non-conforming" with the C spec) |
| 09:31:01 | speachy | there is no itoa() in my system's headers btw |
| 09:31:49 | speachy | ...so this looks like mingw defines it for $reasons. |
| 09:32:39 | speachy | btw, _bilgus, the font thing looks like a simple case of the two themes combined using more fonts than we have slots for. |
| 09:34:45 | _bilgus | I was figuring it just wasn't freeing them I haven't looked to see how its handling that currently but I think it will be only slightly involved mainly ensuring you don't free a font still in use |
| 09:35:42 | speachy | the bug report says "more than 5" but both using 6 seems like it ought to work |
| 09:36:36 | speachy | problem is the "old" fonts aren't "unused" until the new theme finishes loading. |
| 09:37:05 | speachy | might be an off-by-one error in the accounting; haven't looked into it beyond the highest level. |
| 09:37:22 | _bilgus | yeah but I think the way its set up we can get away with it and it'll just be expensive |
| 09:37:42 | _bilgus | ie its not in the cache so it reloads |
| 09:37:44 | speachy | honestly, this seems like the answer is "bump the upper limit" or "don't do that" |
| 09:38:01 | speachy | the cache is independent |
| 09:38:36 | _bilgus | in theory as the theme is loading we can just not let anyone draw |
| 09:38:39 | speachy | each font slot points at a cache |
| 09:39:26 | _bilgus | IDK I'll see once I look thru it wouldn't be the first time it was something totally different |
| 09:39:31 | speachy | we splash errors at some theme loading failures so we can't just stop the UI |
| 09:39:46 | speachy | (including font load failures, hah) |
| 09:40:07 | _bilgus | yeah but we can 'know' that we only have the inbuilt one by then |
| 09:40:08 | speachy | unless we effectively did the theme swap atomically. |
| 09:40:32 | speachy | are splashes aways using sysfont? |
| 09:40:44 | speachy | (if so, there's no point in translating most of 'em) |
| 09:43:08 | speachy | granted a theme load failure isn't really recoverable. |
| 09:43:20 | speachy | (at least not that I recall seeing...) |
| 09:44:10 | speachy | otoh, I only use cabbie on a 128x64x1bpp screen. :D |
| 09:44:41 | _bilgus | ^ me too lol |
| 09:45:15 | _bilgus | think mine is slightly squarer on the zip 96x96 maybe |
| 09:45:51 | speachy | well, that's at least color.. |
| 09:46:54 | MarcAndersen | Is there a patch for the mingw issue or should I just wait to build? If I use a patch I think the builds would get an M. |
| 09:47:54 | speachy | hold off for now, bilgus is working on fixing it. we basically have to rename our itoa() function. |
| 09:53:49 | _bilgus | argh the attribution to groff means it needs to stay in its own fiel |
| 09:53:55 | _bilgus | file* |
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| 10:44:09 | _bilgus | g#6389 look ok, its already non standard I just renamed it totally |
| 10:44:12 | rb-bluebot | Gerrit review #6389 at https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/6389 : [BugFix] itoa conflicts with mingw rename to itoa_buf by William Wilgus |
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| 11:04:53 | speachy | let's ship it. :D |
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| 11:35:01 | _bilgus | well almost got away with it too! |
| 11:36:01 | _bilgus | ah I changed it to !plugin instead of !defined |
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| 12:02:30 | speachy | interesting, it resulted in a binary size bump |
| 12:03:22 | hactar|ant | there's no chance that rockbox will ever support combining characters is there? |
| 12:03:51 | speachy | in the sense of unicode composing you mean? |
| 12:04:03 | hactar|ant | yeah. glyphs with negative x values, basically |
| 12:04:18 | speachy | we already do that for arabic and other languages with diacritic marks |
| 12:04:28 | hactar|ant | oh really |
| 12:04:29 | hactar|ant | hmmm |
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| 12:04:52 | hactar|ant | the fonts system was impenetrable to me the last time i tried to read up on it |
| 12:04:55 | speachy | but full unicode normalization requires about a ~450K binary bump due to the necessary tables. |
| 12:05:34 | hactar|ant | yeah i'm not looking for normalisation, in fact quite the opposite |
| 12:06:29 | speachy | point being one needs to know _when_ to do said combining. |
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| 12:07:36 | hactar|ant | is there rockbox-specific documentation on that or is it just part of the umm. i can't remember what the font format is. |
| 12:07:58 | speachy | look up is_diacritic() if you want to see how it's handled |
| 12:08:17 | hactar|ant | takk |
| 12:09:10 | speachy | arabic (and farsi, and some others) are unique in that the same "letter" can be rendered differently depending on where in the word it falls. |
| 12:10:08 | speachy | I don't recall if that's ultimately handled by transforming one codepoint to another or purely glyph substitution. |
| 12:10:44 | hactar|ant | in my case i'm just looking to print a glyph in the x space of the previous, basically |
| 12:10:48 | speachy | but unicode normalization is essentially the same thing −− 1..N input codepoints -> 1 output glyph (which I _thikn_ is always a distinct codepoint as well) |
| 12:11:26 | speachy | (or 1 input codepoint -> 1..N output codepoints) |
| 12:11:37 | speachy | (depends on which normalization form you want) |
| 12:13:29 | speachy | ok, diacritics are handled by "rewinding" the X position and overlaying. |
| 12:14:39 | speachy | and our implementation is not limited to Arabic. |
| 12:14:57 | hactar|ant | and is that handled by the fnt file? or baked into the firmware |
| 12:15:13 | speachy | baked into the firmware. the font file has to contain all of the appropriate glyphs of course |
| 12:15:34 | speachy | basically the base letter and the diacritic mark have to have distinct unicode codepoints. |
| 12:15:59 | speachy | our fonts are 1:1 codepoint:bitmap |
| 12:16:29 | hactar|ant | right, they don't contain metrics |
| 12:16:55 | hactar|ant | sorry, metrics isn't the right word. |
| 12:19:02 | speachy | but where this ties into unicode normalization is that the same letter might be expressed as two separate code points (ie letter+diacritic)or a single codepoint that pre-combines the two. |
| 12:19:09 | hactar|ant | right |
| 12:19:25 | speachy | they end up being rendered the same, but are different strings. |
| 12:21:01 | speachy | other than rendering diacritic marks (that table is likely way out of date fwiw) we don't have any awareness of unicode normalization. And it's just at the font rendering layer. |
| 12:22:55 | hactar|ant | so if the combining characters in a font are mapped to codepoints that are not part of, say, arabic (or devanagari, etc), there's no way to use them as combining characters without implementing that in rockbox itself |
| 12:22:56 | speachy | this matters for things like filenames etc, where "รถ" might be U+00f6 _or_ u+006f + u+0308. |
| 12:24:53 | speachy | ideally we'd take every string we get (eg from filenames, playlist contents, etc) and preprocess them to ensure they are all using a consistent normalization form. (eg "always combine" or "always decompose") |
| 12:25:16 | speachy | that way we can do meaningful string comparisons, sorting, etc. |
| 12:25:35 | speachy | but suffice it to say that's a lot of internal plumbing reworking. |
| 12:26:10 | speachy | I have a WIP patch that extends our unicode support to >16bit, currently insta-crashes on native builds. :D |
| 12:27:03 | speachy | after that I want to layer on the utf8proc guts so we have the capability of doing this stuff, and then start work on the rest. |
| 12:27:51 | speachy | but we're looking at >75% jump in our binary size. A complete nonstarter on the lowest-end devices. |
| 12:28:40 | hactar|ant | maybe for 5.0 xD |
| 12:28:45 | hactar|ant | october 2038 |
| 12:29:08 | speachy | (one of the current hangups is dealing with the UCS2/UTF16 that FAT32 needs. |
| 12:30:08 | speachy | ...our primary devices remain ~20-year-old designs. |
| 12:30:24 | speachy | (ie the ipods) |
| 12:30:31 | speachy | but at least they have RAM to spare. |
| 12:31:16 | speachy | a lot of modern DAPs have firmware binaries in the ~40-60MB range; over half of that is a single unicode font. |
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| 12:35:21 | hactar|ant | i see dap projects these days and none of them seem to use rockbox which is silly when there's already an incredibly robust, free firmware out there. i guess the chips they're using don't lend themselves to supporting rb? |
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| 13:41:54 | speachy | oh, they're capable enoug |
| 13:42:23 | speachy | but the ones I've seen are pretty heavily tied to $microcontroller ecosystem, to the point of being completely non-portable |
| 13:42:51 | speachy | so getting a basic thing oging is simpler than porting rockbox |
| 13:44:21 | speachy | and it's always more fun to write your own something instead |
| 13:44:31 | speachy | but yeah, a lot of wheen re-inventing |
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| 15:18:29 | MarcAndersen | I got everything set up. It will do a build tonight. |
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| 16:39:34 | | Join WebGuest58 [0] (~WebGuest5@128.127.104.138) |
| 16:39:44 | WebGuest58 | hello guys |
| 16:40:38 | CH23 | hello WebGuest58 |
| 16:43:16 | WebGuest58 | i have an ipod 6g with rockbox, recently updated the installed ancient build (it was from 2019) to one from february 2025, very nice indeed, thanks to all involved |
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| 16:55:08 | WebGuest58 | does anyone know which devices from here https://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml have bluetooth? my only problem with my ipod is that i cant use my wireless earbuds |
| 16:56:11 | Xogium | I don't see any old players from the early 2000/2010s having bluetooth, tbh |
| 16:56:27 | WebGuest58 | or if any of you owns a device that feels like it can be recommended to me |
| 16:56:52 | WebGuest58 | Xogium: I see |
| 16:57:16 | Xogium | I could be wrong of course, but as rockbox primarily focuses on older hw |
| 16:57:56 | WebGuest58 | the Shanling Q1 is on the list and from a quick glance it seems to have bluetooth, but i don't really like its form lol |
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| 17:02:49 | Xogium | right |
| 17:06:08 | speachy | rockbox has zero bluetooth support. |
| 17:06:17 | speachy | and that's not likely to change. |
| 17:06:58 | speachy | https://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,55210.msg255427.html#msg255427 for the latest re-iteration of that. |
| 17:07:44 | WebGuest58 | speachy: ooh, thanks for that, i wasn't aware |
| 17:08:36 | Xogium | so if you want bluetooth, better stick to whatever's original firmware |
| 17:10:49 | WebGuest58 | ok but what are some decent, solid brands? other than the ipod i know zero |
| 17:11:41 | WebGuest58 | if you have any suggestions, if not it's okay |
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| 17:28:09 | Xogium | WebGuest58: I mean, it really depends in what you would want in a player |
| 17:31:43 | CH23 | still want to rebuild an ipod classic into an ipod shuffle |
| 17:32:32 | Xogium | sounds like a fun project |
| 17:32:48 | Xogium | but why the shuffle, for the looks, or ? |
| 17:33:44 | WebGuest58 | Xogium: good battery i guess, my main use is just listening to stuff though, i don't care for anything else really |
| 17:34:28 | WebGuest58 | for example, on my ipod i use the failsafe theme (i think that's the one), minimal fluff just like i like it |
| 17:35:04 | Xogium | right. Sounds like your ipod is perfect for this task then ? Unless I'm missing something here, that is ;) |
| 17:35:20 | WebGuest58 | lol, you might be right |
| 17:35:58 | Xogium | since bluetooth isn't a possibility anyway at all in rockbox, there'd be no point in getting a bluetooth-capable device |
| 17:42:20 | gnafu | WebGuest58: I just got a Surfans F20 (Eros Q variant), and I'm happy with it so far. It has Bluetooth in the original firmware, and Rockbox is great for everything else. |
| 17:42:45 | gnafu | But that's been my only foray into portable audio players since the Sansa Fuze many years ago ^^;. |
| 17:43:09 | WebGuest58 | nice thanks |
| 17:43:57 | gnafu | I haven't actually tried out the stock firmware's Bluetooth functionality yet. I should do that soon, but I don't expect to use it much. |
| 17:45:06 | WebGuest58 | looks very good and the price is right up my alley |
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| 18:02:01 | Galois | I also got the Hifi Walker H2 (Eros Q). In addition to bluetooth, the OF also supports USB-C audio, which I use. But the battery life is not super. It gets maybe 10-12 hours. |
| 18:06:57 | WebGuest58 | awesome |
| 18:15:10 | WebGuest58 | well guys i gotta go, thanks for now |
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| 20:07:08 | _bilgus_ | the bin size jump 0o thats unexpected wth |
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| 20:20:20 | _bilgus_ | oh so it was actually pulling in the fallback one ugh |
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| 20:23:18 | _bilgus_ | pretty sure I just failed as I was figuring out a plce to put it but now I need to do those runtime tests again make sure I wasn't testing the fallback one but I can't imagine so |
| 20:26:20 | _bilgus_ | Ah and the lower size was due to the removal of 50 ish format strings |
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| 21:36:40 | | Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@47-186-65-73.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) |
| 21:41:57 | | Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 21:50:28 | | Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@47-186-65-73.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) |
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| 22:31:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:00:42 | | Join othello7 [0] (~Thunderbi@pool-100-36-176-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:13:43 | | Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).