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| 07:47:12 | _bilgus_ | well at default the HM800 user says its stable, thats good to hear, maybe we have some wonky settings happening.. |
| 08:00 |
| 08:28:57 | speachy | bleb: "Easily replaceable battery" is the tough one. |
| 08:29:39 | speachy | the modern erosq family is relatively easy to take apart and do a battery swap (screws but they're under glued-on covers) |
| 08:30:36 | speachy | but the only thing I"m aware of with an easily replaceable battery are the iBasso DX50/DX90 models. they have an explicitly removeable battery, IIRC one that samsung used to use for their phones a long time ago |
| 08:31:09 | speachy | _bilgus_: ...I get the impression there is a lot we're not being told. |
| 08:35:19 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 08:36:25 | _bilgus_ | language barrier I think is most of the issue, hopefully we get some bugfixes out of it |
| 08:38:03 | _bilgus_ | If I'm not mistaken I think we had one device that used Alkaline AAs maybe hwcodec? |
| 08:40:26 | speachy | the OG archos devices uses 4x AA batteries, came with NiMH cells but you could swap in whatever you wanted |
| 08:40:34 | speachy | we put in discharge curves for alkalines too |
| 08:43:43 | speachy | there were some other players in the early era that had AAs (Creative had one that looked like a USB storage stick but plugged into a battery caddy that contained a single AA |
| 08:45:36 | speachy | I think that line topped out at 1GB. |
| 08:49:32 | speachy | wrt the HM801, the device is on the underpowered side (or at least the pcm code could be better optimized) |
| 08:49:52 | speachy | was pretty easy to get the output to crackle a bit from buffer underruns |
| 08:50:49 | _bilgus_ | so adding any extra processing on the audio will probably bring up so,e stuff |
| 08:50:58 | _bilgus_ | some* |
| 08:51:56 | _bilgus_ | yeah the archos I think it was the first device I saw RB on |
| 08:52:47 | speachy | I was able to make it crackle playing back 2ch 44khz FLAC, mucking around in the debug menu |
| 08:53:42 | speachy | plenty of spare CPU cycles (I think it was effectively running at 1/4 max CPU) |
| 08:54:08 | speachy | Maybe it's a matter of making the PCM DMA buffer slightly larger |
| 08:55:02 | speachy | a few months ago I found the documentation and software CD for my long-deceased Archos Studio |
| 08:55:16 | _bilgus_ | yeah buy you a bit more time< usually though that just moves the issue a bit further down the line but maybe its that close? |
| 08:56:39 | speachy | depends on the root of the problem −− eg the jz47xx has plenty of oomph but the ISR overhead is huge and the dma engine doesn't let you do double-buffering |
| 08:57:13 | speachy | so we get underruns at very high rates solely because we can't service the ISR fast enough. |
| 08:58:13 | speachy | (the context switch is _expensive_) |
| 08:58:27 | _bilgus_ | ah so extend taht out and get more favorable timings huh |
| 08:59:06 | speachy | but on the rk27xx it might just be a matter of the buffers not being deep enough to refresh in time. |
| 08:59:21 | _bilgus_ | and minimal testing doesn't help either |
| 08:59:43 | speachy | yeah. |
| 09:00 |
| 09:02:01 | speachy | (on the jz47xx we're saved by a relatively deep i2s FIFO. the x1000 series added end-of-descriptor IRQs instead of just end-of-transfer, so we can double-buffer. plus another 400-500MHz of oomph..) |
| 09:02:54 | _bilgus_ | We have cleaned up a lot of this common code to the point where our major issues should be relegated to single devices and dark corners but those are also usually the hardest to track down too |
| 09:03:12 | _bilgus_ | esp without a device to test.. |
| 09:04:00 | speachy | I expect the HM601 is effectively equivalent. |
| 09:04:16 | speachy | but dma underruns wouldn't cause panics |
| 09:05:13 | _bilgus_ | overclock mods wouldthough.. |
| 09:05:55 | Ctcp | Ignored 4 channel CTCP requests in 12 days and 22 hours at the last flood |
| 09:05:55 | * | speachy spreads his hands. |
| 09:07:13 | _bilgus_ | I asked them again what mods |
| 09:08:47 | speachy | I still need to finish generating a flashable bootloader image on the DX50. So far it won't boot. |
| 09:09:10 | _bilgus_ | fallout from the compiler jump? |
| 09:09:23 | speachy | oh no, this is just reliant on dodgy tools |
| 09:09:52 | _bilgus_ | heh |
| 09:10:06 | speachy | the open source tools don't work properly for this SoC and I wasn't motivated to hunt down the OG proprietary vendor tooling |
| 09:10:59 | speachy | (basically need to generate a flashable/bootable image after patching the hosted filesystem with our bootloader) |
| 09:11:55 | speachy | (it's all hosted and compiled with stock android toolchains so I don't expect any meaningful issues in that respect) |
| 09:14:02 | speachy | still need to regenerate a new set of bootloaders for the ipods and everything that takes sd cards. |
| 09:14:20 | speachy | (ie to pull in the disk/partitioning improvements) |
| 09:16:20 | _bilgus_ | yeah I haven't tested any of the new bootloaders except the clip zip I think the work amachronic did to make stuff fit last time (for clip+ and...?) left some room on the table for you so hopefully it fits |
| 09:16:42 | speachy | we build all bootloaders after every commit |
| 09:16:58 | _bilgus_ | oh so they fit then they just need tested? |
| 09:17:03 | speachy | yeah |
| 09:17:08 | _bilgus_ | cool |
| 09:17:51 | _bilgus_ | that is a much better state then, now do you mean they are fed through the makegen too? |
| 09:18:16 | speachy | makegen? |
| 09:18:18 | _bilgus_ | or just the first stage bc those don't check if it fits in the OF |
| 09:18:45 | _bilgus_ | like for the ams devices you use makeamsboot to merge the OF and our bootloader |
| 09:18:55 | speachy | no, we dont' do that |
| 09:19:04 | _bilgus_ | then we can't say it fits |
| 09:19:26 | speachy | but if there's a size limit for the bootloader it should be referenced in the boot.lds for that target |
| 09:19:35 | _bilgus_ | I doubt it |
| 09:19:42 | _bilgus_ | hope so? |
| 09:19:49 | speachy | "should" :D |
| 09:20:10 | speachy | I know that in the past we've had buildfarm failures along those lines, so at least _some_ targets do the right hting |
| 09:20:30 | speachy | what's one of the problematic ones? |
| 09:21:08 | _bilgus_ | for sure the clip+ has been an ongoing pain |
| 09:21:46 | _bilgus_ | there are others that were close but off the top of my head clip+ |
| 09:22:16 | speachy | ok, that just uses DRAM : ORIGIN = DRAM_ORIG + LOAD_SIZE, LENGTH = DRAM_SIZE - LOAD_SIZE - TTB_SIZ |
| 09:22:20 | _bilgus_ | last time around I think amachronic managed something like 1k free |
| 09:22:40 | _bilgus_ | give me a second and i'll spin up a makeamsboot for it |
| 09:23:32 | speachy | if we overflow I'd like to start tweaking the linker scripts to reflect the actual limit |
| 09:29:08 | _bilgus_ | fits by 3k I think you'll be fine |
| 09:29:49 | _bilgus_ | well 2,4k |
| 09:30:45 | _bilgus_ | [INFO] Original firmware size: 134008 bytes, [INFO] Total size of new image: 131564 bytes |
| 09:31:13 | speachy | heh but does it _work_ ? :D |
| 09:31:20 | _bilgus_ | I don't know that you could, I guess since we have no ned OF to contend with we know what all the possible sizes are |
| 09:31:31 | _bilgus_ | no new* |
| 09:31:48 | speachy | I figure we only care about the final firmware release |
| 09:32:12 | _bilgus_ | and or whatever is the LARGEST |
| 09:48:59 | _bilgus_ | The Sansa Clip+ Does Boot |
| 09:57:55 | _bilgus_ | Hm800 sounds like the mods are in the audio path so power dropouts maybe but doubtful to cause much issue otherwise I'd think |
| 10:00 |
| 10:02:02 | _bilgus_ | I tell you I love the Clip+ |
| 10:02:49 | _bilgus_ | <3 <3 <3 |
| 10:02:56 | speachy | yeah, it's an amazing little device. my only complaint is that the screen is too teeeeny for my getting older eyes now. |
| 10:03:07 | speachy | (well, that and the lack of a line out, but that's understandable) |
| 10:03:19 | _bilgus_ | I just don't care TBH i'll use it with voice damnit |
| 10:04:34 | _bilgus_ | but yeah my eyes aren't getting beter, I'm glad chris_s added zoom option on te sim but it just makes me feel old now |
| 10:14:38 | speachy | voice is what makes the x3 usable too. plus the big chonky buttons that are easily distinguishable by touch |
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| 10:24:46 | Xogium | no shame in having poor eyesight, honest folks |
| 10:25:17 | speachy | the main benefit for the new bootloader is GPT support for folks that reformat but not repartition their SD cards. |
| 10:25:35 | speachy | (for SD card devices) |
| 10:26:19 | speachy | and yeah, the voiced UI remains rockbox's killer feature |
| 10:26:26 | Xogium | aye, that it does |
| 10:28:02 | Xogium | I wrote a guide on how to use the zoom f3 field recorder device while blind, and was pleasantly surprised to read that someone posted a comment that said, thanks! This will be bloody useful to me when I want to perform some task on the recorder without glancing at the display |
| 10:28:39 | Xogium | sometimes you just don't realize how good something you've just decided to make for your own use can be to others until they point it out and you're like, huh wow that's nice |
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| 10:40:31 | speachy | it's why I've put so much effort into making it (and the tooling) JustWork(tm). |
| 10:41:37 | | Quit _bilgus_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 10:43:16 | Xogium | :) |
| 10:43:33 | Xogium | damn fine job you did for sure |
| 10:47:42 | speachy | "if I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants" |
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| 11:21:01 | speachy | _bilgus: https://www.ebay.com/itm/275810517140 |
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| 11:24:08 | _bilgus | hmm |
| 11:24:49 | _bilgus | I could justify 300 1200 is a bit much for something redundant in my life lol |
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| 11:52:35 | bahusoid | I think e200V2 bootloader is the most size-restricted. I worked on fitting it and if I remember correctly I needed to clean up 12Kb or something. |
| 11:52:46 | bahusoid | https://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,54768.0.html |
| 11:55:01 | bahusoid | Also, I don't believe that the bootloader build checks if it fits in firmware as it requires original firmware. Otherwise why e200v2 bootloader was broken for many years |
| 11:56:48 | bahusoid | And I verified that GPT partition works for e200v2 bootloader |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:11:48 | speachy | those limitations should be encoded into the linker scripts |
| 12:12:15 | speachy | (or at minimum, in the configure script) |
| 12:18:55 | _bilgus | I think at the very least you'd need o run it through the compressor first UCLpack |
| 12:19:16 | _bilgus | as we can't say what the compressed size will be ahead of time more than a guess |
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| 12:23:55 | bleb | speachy: thanks for the run down |
| 12:24:11 | bleb | the archos recorders look interesting |
| 12:24:31 | bleb | <speachy> there were some other players in the early era that had AAs (Creative had one that looked like a USB storage stick but plugged into a battery caddy that contained a single AA |
| 12:24:48 | bleb | I've spent a while researching this type; I think the creative one you had in mind used AAA |
| 12:25:31 | _bilgus | clip plus gets about 40% smaller |
| 12:25:43 | bleb | AA ones are less common, the one's I've found are cowon g3, samsung yepp mt6, and a bunch of irivers |
| 12:26:13 | bleb | afaik none of them will charge the battery though so you have to constantly swap it out into a recharger |
| 12:26:21 | bleb | not too bad since it lasts a while |
| 12:26:48 | _bilgus | there was one I reember maybe creative that was a small circle with a button and had a screen off the side O== taht took two AAA |
| 12:27:26 | bleb | the archos players and also creative jukeboxes that took 4 AAs came with NiMH and had circuitry to charge them |
| 12:27:32 | _bilgus | it was actually a ring of buttons |
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| 12:29:52 | bleb | I would like to find that |
| 12:30:26 | bleb | one AAA seems a little weak but two AAA could be alright |
| 12:31:44 | _bilgus | https://www.newegg.com/sandisk-sansa-m240-mp3-player/p/N82E16855125117 |
| 12:32:34 | _bilgus | was one AAA |
| 12:32:43 | bleb | yup |
| 12:32:44 | _bilgus | apparently |
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| 12:34:26 | bleb | those do look really nice though |
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| 12:35:38 | _bilgus | I think they expected you to swing it in your hand while running or something |
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| 12:42:28 | bleb | sansa e200 seems to have everything but the port is proprietary |
| 12:42:38 | bleb | and replacement batteries seem a bit scarce |
| 12:43:01 | bleb | I guess the real answer is tangara |
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| 12:55:49 | _bilgus | yeah almost exactly the opposite of proprietary |
| 12:56:22 | speachy | ...except for a large chunk of the software running on it |
| 12:56:37 | bleb | bluetooth/wifi firmware? |
| 12:56:55 | bleb | oh wow I actually have an archos recorder 20 on the way |
| 12:57:02 | bleb | ebay just didn't tell me my offer was accepted |
| 12:57:29 | speachy | communication firmware and stack at minimum, but likely numerous otehr ESP32 blobs |
| 12:58:04 | speachy | (ESP32 provides a _lot_ of libraries for use with their hardare) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:04:34 | speachy | (there's also a bunch of stuff that lives in ROM −− IIRC that includes the USB stack) |
| 13:09:57 | _bilgus | speachy https://www.ebay.com/itm/123773223461 |
| 13:10:27 | speachy | wow, an order of magnitude more expensive. |
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| 13:13:36 | _bilgus | Wonder how much they were new, damn I should have inversted in them I guess |
| 13:14:02 | speachy | the 801 is better than the 601 insofar as it has more buttons |
| 13:14:16 | speachy | but the layout is a little head-scratchy |
| 13:14:37 | speachy | huge battery too but I imagine some of those analog boards are quite thirsty |
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| 13:27:51 | speachy | I'm grateful we still have the likes of the erosq family; bucking the trend by providing an option between shovelware and "audiophile" devices. |
| 13:30:03 | speachy | then there's whatever TF this is.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/356569454513 |
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| 13:37:51 | Everything | Hi all. What are some modern players on market compatible with rockbox? |
| 13:54:05 | gnafu | Everything: I just picked up a Surfans F20 (Eros Q variant), and I'm very happy with it so far. |
| 13:57:51 | Everything | gnafu: tnx |
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| 15:57:10 | Everything | .quit |
| 15:57:13 | Everything | sorry |
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| 17:33:40 | bleb | anyone know where I might find specs for the archos recorder 20 ac adapter? |
| 17:34:38 | bleb | according to this the PJ-007 jack can be used as a replacement for the power jack: http://www.woudy.org/archos_apart/ |
| 17:35:18 | bleb | which is 1.3 x 4.2 mm, 2.0 A: |
| 17:35:21 | bleb | https://www.sameskydevices.com/product/interconnect/connectors/dc-power-connectors/jacks/pj-007 |
| 17:36:21 | bleb | it's "rated" for 16V but idk what voltage the device is designed to accept |
| 17:37:38 | speachy | pretty sure it's 5V |
| 17:40:48 | speachy | hmm, more likely 9V. |
| 17:44:48 | speachy | "optimal" is 10V apparently, so go with 9V. |
| 17:45:01 | speachy | https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BatteryFAQ |
| 17:47:53 | speachy | Q11 in particular: 9V 600mA, center positive. |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:19:47 | bleb | I wish it had info on the barrel dimensions |
| 18:20:23 | bleb | the pj-007 power jack page says 1.3 x 4.2 mm |
| 18:20:48 | bleb | but searching for 9v 600ma 4.2mm isn't turning up much |
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| 22:35:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:00 |
| 23:21:36 | | Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).