--- Log for 12.08.102 Server: gibson.openprojects.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16p1 Started: 3 days and 5 hours ago 00.05.30 Join jmw [0] (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net) 00.37.23 Quit PsycoXul ("blaaah.") 00.38.03 # just wondering what ppl do with silence tracks on their ripped albums ...? 00.42.02 Quit jmw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.43.59 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.45.10 # silence tracks? 00.48.28 Join tension [0] (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net) 00.48.39 Nick tension is now known as jmw (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net) 00.56.51 Join PsycoXul [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-56.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 01.20.23 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting") 01.39.44 Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.57.24 Quit jmw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.35.32 Join telliott [0] (trilluser@208.251.255.120) 02.37.24 # I am getting the Archos Jukebox 20 recorder. Do you think that it maked decent recordings? 02.40.54 # think, it's a pretty ok device i think 02.42.39 # I'm also getting it for the speedy usb transfers. O'll have to play with the recording feature. What model do you have? 02.42.51 # usb 2.0 02.44.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.47.16 Part telliott 04.44.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.46.26 Join jmw [0] (jmw@24.228.81.237) 04.52.48 # i could really do with a strstr implementation 05.13.16 Quit jmw ("and that's all i have to say") 06.44.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.17.54 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.20.46 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.20.52 Nick Linus is now known as LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.23.49 Mode "#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) 07.24.02 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EA9873.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.41.19 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 07.41.30 # morning 07.43.48 # mo 07.43.56 Mode "#rockbox +o Bagder " by LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.44.02 # * Bagder bows 07.51.28 # The new loadable fonts patch works OK 07.51.36 # cool 07.51.50 # but no cool internal fonts for it yet? 07.51.56 # but the spacing between the folder/mp3 icons is a little small... 07.52.12 # ok 07.53.02 # and the row pixel positions are calculated from the top of the LCD rather that fron the top of the file area in the dir browser 07.53.23 # so the first row is only half with the 5x7 font 07.54.02 # those are probable assumptions in non-font code 07.54.14 # I mean that the font is of a certain size 07.54.44 # yeah, the dir browser lets the LCD calculate the row positions 07.54.49 # lcd driver 07.54.53 # ok 07.55.01 # it should use putxy 07.58.59 # Morning 07.59.25 # hey Hes 08.01.11 # What do you guys think of Uwe's suggestions? 08.01.51 # * Bagder hasn't really gotten the details, only scanned the mail 08.02.06 # The last mail from the list... 08.02.31 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.02.40 # yes... but I have a million more mails too i need to get sorted ;-) 08.05.58 # I don't quite understand his point about user-toggleable charging. 08.06.42 # I honestly think that if the user plugs in the charger, his intention is to have the batteries charged. 08.06.52 # I agree 08.07.08 # and if he intend to keep it connected, "deep discharge" is a fine option 08.07.11 # Hes: no, he wants to keep the unit alive while listening to music at work 08.07.24 # And that the charging algorithm he suggest is generally the one that's already implemented. 08.07.35 # and, of course, having the batteries charged when he leaves for home 08.07.48 # LinusN: right 08.07.51 # Hes: basically the same, yes 08.08.40 # Do you see any sense in keeping track of the 'phase of charging'? 08.08.52 # I think his point is that you might want to do things differently depending on the batteries status when you plug in the charger, and that he believes that the -deltaV detection may fail when the unit is running 08.09.31 # the -deltaV triggers too early, that's for sure 08.09.39 # Yeah, the falloff detection gives false positives every now and then 08.09.59 # but we can improve it... 08.10.40 # But I think it's easier to tune the current code instead of rewriting, it's quite a short piece of code stilll? 08.10.48 # Although quick to rewrite too 8-) 08.11.57 # well, if the algorithm generally remains, then I can't see why a rewrite would be necessary 08.12.06 # i agree 08.12.28 # still, it's nice to have several opinions on this 08.12.32 # Yeah 08.12.50 # that way we can really try to do the best 08.13.19 # yes, trying out different approaches is A Good Thing 08.13.55 # the battery charging stuff is very important 08.14.06 # and non-trivial... 08.14.17 # * Bagder nosd 08.14.20 # hm 08.14.23 # nods ;-) 08.14.35 # for one, we really want to charge them to the maximum, because the battery time will depend on it 08.14.53 # and we don't want to risk wearing them out too much 08.16.32 # The EX70's & rockbox was a huge success this weekend, drove to the countryside (some 4 hours of driving in one direction) 08.16.49 # EX70 rule hard! 08.17.01 # the EX70's lowered the noise level inside the helmet quite a lot 08.17.42 # but still - lower bass can not be heard because of much background noise in that area, and it comes in through the head not the ears 8-) 08.21.55 # Hehe, the mailing list traffic surely got a boost when the 1.2 was released... 08.22.35 # yes 08.22.42 # quite a flood right now 08.24.05 # but still, the Yahoo guys don't seem to understand that Rockbox has a separate mailing list for support :-( 08.24.48 # well, that's because ppl continue to reply in that forum ;-) 08.35.51 # I'll hang Zagor for not directing people to the rockbox list/bug report system 08.36.07 # I'll back you up ;-) 08.36.40 # we definitely do not need to be active on two forums! 08.37.19 # well, the archos group has 3398 members... 08.38.55 # so? 08.39.21 # it's good to be able to reply to things there 08.39.31 # not saying it should double the rockbox list 08.39.46 # *shake his head* 08.39.48 # Good morning 08.39.53 # morn 08.39.57 # morn dwihno 08.40.04 # I could really use a can of coffee 08.40.23 # Bagder: yes, it is out duty to answer people on that list and tell them where to get help 08.40.32 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net) 08.40.40 # not give the help on the forum 08.40.46 # you're right 08.41.16 # we have no obligation to help people whatsoever 08.41.38 # of course not 08.41.55 # and if they don't want to join the rockbox list, or file bug reports on our soite, it's their problem, not ours 08.42.09 # out site 08.42.14 # our site 08.42.24 # (my fingers are thick today) 08.44.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.58.51 # anyone tried the multi-line scroll patch? 09.01.40 # "If somebody sues you, you change the algorithm or you just hire a hit-man to whack the stupid git." 09.01.47 # (Linus Torvalds on patents) 09.02.02 # i like that 09.02.13 # he has a way with words ;-) 09.02.14 # Bagder: no, i haven't tried that patch 09.03.30 # the amount of patches flying in is thrilling, but quite demanding too 09.04.02 # indeed 09.04.21 # Loadable fonts support? (N) 09.04.26 # and we suddenly have to filter them 09.04.28 # hrrr 09.04.37 # Hes: what is the problem? 09.04.53 # Wondering if I should try them or not 8-) 09.05.05 # go go go 09.05.10 # :-) 09.05.20 # allright... 09.05.42 # but we should add some decent internal fonts too 09.06.12 # Bagder: the current internal fonts are very decent IMO 09.06.22 # I disagree 09.06.23 # except for the lack of glyphs 09.06.47 # Bagder: what is wrong with them? 09.06.49 # the lack of lots of letters for iso8859-1 and the non-proportional 09.06.53 # i think they look terrific 09.06.57 # they do 09.07.24 # Bagder: we still need monospaced fonts 09.07.25 # they need to be proportional 09.07.29 # LinusN: why? 09.07.40 # I want åäöÅÄÖ 09.07.57 # because displaying data in columns is hard with proportional fonts 09.08.02 # with å being optional 8-) 09.08.14 # LinusN: not with putsxy() 09.09.27 # but ok, there could be a monospaced font included 09.09.36 # I still think default shouldn't 09.09.36 # you may be right 09.09.41 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se) 09.09.50 # Bagder: i agree 09.10.07 # but today it is still plain ugly, regarding the scrolling 09.10.11 # morning matsl 09.10.17 # and the space between the icon and the text 09.10.23 # and the row calculation bug 09.10.26 # morning 09.10.33 # well, those are bugs that need to be fixed 09.10.42 # ... and I *do* want smooth scrolling 09.11.04 # undependent of the letter widths 09.11.21 # that would be nice 09.11.32 # and that it scrolled when it actually needs to 09.11.45 # yes 09.11.46 # maybe that bug is fixed now, btw 09.11.50 # Should we do the scrolling at pixel level so we could scroll graphics etc too? Virtual desktop 8-) 09.12.14 # the scroll code needs to be very much revised 09.12.14 # making a virtual desktop would be very easy in fact 09.12.32 # but I was more aiming at making the scroll thread scroll text by pixels 09.12.43 # since tit is based on text lines 09.13.17 # exactly, and the fact that everything is stored in columns 09.13.22 # the text line concept is a little weak now when a line can be of any width 09.13.24 # height 09.14.10 # that doesn't change much though 09.14.32 # not in the current code, no 09.14.40 # lcd_update_rect() will be slight less good though 09.14.43 # slightly 09.15.07 # indeed 09.15.36 # but compared with the current code, it will still be a lot faster 09.15.38 # * edx has a c++ question 09.16.21 # if I have the constructor of a base class which calls a virtual function, does it call the funciton of the derivered class or itself? 09.16.24 # edx: posing a c++ question in the rockbox list is like asking about Allah in a catholic church 09.16.27 Join Zagor [0] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 09.16.40 # hi guys 09.16.44 # hi 09.16.46 # yo Zagor 09.17.00 # morning Zagor 09.17.30 # what, no checkins yet? ;) 09.17.43 # * Bagder is swamped with unrelated work 09.18.18 # Bagder: Simulator doesn't show all characters. Known problem? 09.18.25 # hm 09.18.31 # matsl: the font lacks some chars 09.18.38 # matsl: yes, the player sim has the same charset as the recorder 09.18.56 # ... which doesn't match the actual product's charset 09.19.00 # dwihno: any progress with the font? 09.19.20 # Sorry. Not that problem. To few chars shown on the line. 09.19.35 # matsl: oh, didn't know that 09.19.39 # My line gets chopped of. 09.20.09 # I miss the two last characters. 09.20.17 # matsl: you think you can fix? 09.20.51 # edx: calling virtual methods from a base class constructor is bad practice IMHO 09.21.00 # Bagder: I can look into it later. Must work some today. Wiktor-projekt at 10:00 09.21.51 # edx: the virtual method will be the one of the base class 09.22.18 # you can definitely not expect it to be anything else 09.23.44 # cu 09.23.59 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting") 09.27.56 # LinusN: thanks 09.28.07 # very impractical in my opinion... 09.29.29 # guesses are you are doing one of two things wrong 09.29.41 # edx: yes, but tying your hands by using C++ is impractical too 09.29.43 # either you are trying to make things in constructor which do not belong in a constructor 09.30.13 # * LinusN is starting a language war 09.30.44 # or you are trying to virtualize initialization by calling virtual functions, where as you should use separate constructors for each class, perhaps calling a common simple init function 09.31.44 # * Zagor wonders how the Cursed Language made it into Rockbox discussions? 09.31.59 # blame edx 09.32.58 # * Bagder runs for coffee 09.33.48 # * LinusN runs for his life, afraid of the C++ warriors 09.33.56 # LinusN: why? tying my hands using C is impractical because I can do everything in C++ i can do in C (I dont refer to RockBox here and I do not want to create a flame war, in my opinion it is good to use C for Rockbox because we don't need C++) 09.34.06 # * edx runs off as well 09.34.27 # i rest my case 09.35.10 # (i was actually talking more about OO than C++) 09.35.17 # i think i'll add some notes in CONTRIBUTING about 80 columns and the virtues of whitespace 09.35.24 # Zagor: indeed 09.35.54 # Zagor: you might add something about keeping the style in the file 09.36.09 # LinusN: there are not too many languages compiled directly to machine code to choose from 09.36.21 # LinusN: yes 09.36.42 # Hadaka: true 09.39.33 # Hey, is ata_disk_is_active() good and working at the moment? 09.42.04 # Zagor: linus mentioned something about bad look in the dir browser with the new font patch 09.42.08 # Hes: it should be 09.42.38 # Hes: it tells you if the disk is spinning 09.42.45 # not actually active 09.44.16 # Excellent. I just made the charger try to skip voltage samples if it's spinning. 09.44.37 # Zagor: perhaps the CONTRIBUTING file could mention that we enjoy if the subject mentions PATCH when patches are posted 09.45.02 # I sometimes find it hard to dig up patches from the mails 09.48.34 # Where are the instructions for setting up the fonts? where to put them? 09.51.03 # at least before, it was supposed to be in the root dir 09.51.06 # * adi|home gets the feeling thats going into the FAQ 09.51.20 # adi|home: we should sort it out properly first 09.51.28 # * adi|home nods 09.51.40 # i just know its going to have to go into the FAQ 09.51.48 # atleast where to get instructions when we decide 09.51.50 # I think we might want to add a 'rockbox' dir or something for stuff like that 09.52.00 # I hate to pollute my root dir 09.52.33 # a 'doc' dir? 09.52.37 # .rockbox with the hidden bit set... 09.52.48 # ah, on the target!!! 09.52.49 # LinusN: not docs, fonts, config, blablabla 09.53.14 # Hes: that's a good idea 09.53.15 # i meant a 'doc' CVS dir 09.53.21 # aha 09.53.29 # i want a font selector in the settings 09.53.30 # well, we have the docs in the www dir 09.53.38 # Which font is good? 09.53.45 # none of them 09.53.45 # Hes: none :-( 09.53.47 # LinusN: what would the font setting do? 09.53.50 # argh. 09.54.06 # select the default font to use 09.54.23 # i want to be able to have several fonts on disk 09.54.25 # LinusN: sounds like a good idea 09.54.38 # then we need a font browser ;-) 09.54.47 # .rockbox/fonts 09.56.04 # i am so tired of that distortion bug 09.56.11 # i can't reproduce it 09.56.27 # I have a feeling that is gonna give us headache 09.56.58 Topic "http://rockbox.haxx.se/" by Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 09.57.05 # it sure gives the user a headache, with that noise! :-) 09.58.58 # i wish we had some guy in stockholm that had the problem 10.00.25 Mode "#rockbox +o Zagor " by LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 10.01.56 # * LinusN reads the wishes for "ON goes to WPS in all menus" and fears them 10.04.58 Quit matp ("Client Exiting") 10.06.22 # it might be a good idea to change the MENU +/- for volume on player into ON +/-, since that's what people are used to from the archos firmware 10.07.10 # i don't like that 10.07.13 # Zagor: a suggestion regarding the manual on the site: we rename the current one to manual-1.2 and then try to keep the manual/ one up-to-date 10.07.25 # LinusN: why not? 10.07.35 # ON is used for WPS toggling 10.07.36 # Bagder: good idea 10.07.53 # LinusN: so? MENU is used for menu toggling 10.07.56 # using MENU for quick-access settings is more consistent 10.09.03 # you have a point there 10.09.13 # then all options are reached via the MENU key 10.09.22 # either release MENU and use the menus, or hold menu and use shortcuts. i like it. 10.09.42 # we had a long discussion on IRC about that 10.10.09 # and we finally ended up with the MENU key solution 10.10.20 # i like it a lot 10.12.08 # do you get the player sim to get full lines? 10.12.25 # displayed 10.13.13 # nope, only 9 chars here 10.13.27 # I think I made the window too narrow 10.14.07 # it doesn't look too narrow. there's space for char 10 and 11, just no chars. :-) 10.14.20 # oh 10.14.40 # then I don't know 10.37.26 # Bagder: who calls drawtext() in the player sim? 10.37.54 # drawtext() ? 10.38.42 # aha 10.39.01 # nothing uses that 10.39.06 # that's just very old code 10.39.20 # why is the old code there then? 10.39.28 # no one removed it 10.39.33 # how does a text get displayed then?= 10.39.47 # the player sim uses the actual recorder font code 10.40.09 # in lcd.c? 10.40.11 # yes 10.40.41 # how about LCD_WIDTH then? 10.40.51 # it is 112 pixels, right? 10.40.58 # yes, that is probably what hits the limit 10.41.18 # we should have separate code for the player text 10.41.23 # it would need to be modified for the player sim 10.41.27 # feel free to add 10.41.38 # oh, thank you! :-) 10.41.41 # right 10.41.49 # that's kind of what I think too 10.42.14 # so let's adjust LCD_WIDTH when the player sim is built ;-) 10.42.26 # :-) 10.42.56 # the "least resistance" approach 10.43.23 # The disk-spinning-sample-skipping seems to work, i get 0.01v-0.02v variation while playing on a half full battery set 10.44.11 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.46.59 # coolio 10.49.15 # The Code Police leaps into action :) 10.49.23 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|donuts (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 10.53.41 # he y ppl 10.53.49 # hey ironi 10.53.51 # u have any tips on mobos for athlon 10.53.57 # (a bit off topic) =) 10.54.30 # well, for dual CPU there is only one :-P 10.54.31 # Zagor|donuts: Code Police? Nah, rather Space Patrol :-) 10.54.54 # rockbox.haxx.se runs dual Athlon 10.55.09 # ironi__: i have A7V333. It works good for me 10.57.23 # hey btw, gcc-3.1 didn't work for sh1? how about gcc-3.2? 10.57.48 # do they still offer sh-1 ? 10.57.55 # they planned to drop it 10.57.55 # eh? 10.58.04 # i think they have dropped the sh1 support 10.58.20 # hm 10.58.21 # http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-06/msg00049.html 10.58.33 # so in a few years, we can no longer use gcc for rockbox? 10.58.40 # right 10.58.57 # Hadaka: we will probably be able to use it for a long, long time 10.59.13 # 3.0.4, yes 10.59.16 # puuh 10.59.19 # that sucks majorly 10.59.28 # as long as they don't remove the downloads for the older gcc compilers 10.59.49 # well compilers get new versions for a reason 11.00.19 Join notch|busy [0] (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk) 11.00.23 # yes, they want to improve the internals for newer architectures 11.00.33 # hehe 11.00.37 # no future support is like cutting the head off a chicken 11.00.38 # well they *do* fix bugs too 11.00.43 # it may still do something, but not for long ;) 11.01.00 # Bagder: yes, but mostly on "modern" architectures 11.01.12 # but C99 support is still not complete 11.01.19 # not to even talk about the enhancements in C++ 11.01.36 # LinusN: "mostly" perhaps yes, but not exclusively 11.02.08 # Has anyone thought of what mp3o might do to change playback speed? 11.02.22 # a special DSP hack? 11.02.55 # i think they have that 11.03.13 # the hardware specs are very similaro to ours 11.03.33 # what is mp3o ? 11.05.16 # LinusN: i was looking at that 11.05.39 # but i am thinking maybe epox or abit 11.07.49 # Bagder: m3po, sorry. 11.08.03 # it's a standalone CD MP3 player 11.08.32 # based on SHx, MAS3507D and DAC3550A 11.08.50 # ok 11.11.43 # http://www.m3po.com/_eng/index_eng.html 11.12.06 # it claims to be able to change playback speed when preserving the pitch 11.12.16 # wow 11.12.44 # they *must* have a custom DSP code for that 11.13.41 # perhaps Micronas offer that kind of code 11.13.48 # probably 11.13.57 # 0.01V is 1 centivolt, right? 8-] 11.14.05 # yes 11.14.30 # i wish Uwe could join this channel 11.15.34 # that would be good, yes 11.15.39 # it's so frustrating to have that kind of technical discussion in a mailing list 11.16.50 # especially when he isn't up-to-date with how the hardware works 11.22.02 # i just can't understand why the Archos Multimedia Jukebox comes with USB1.1 11.22.58 # yeah, that is indeed weird 11.31.36 # Zagor|donuts: regarding the font... I got that font program working and I've started the "conversion". It will probably be done this evening, or early tomorrow. 11.38.30 # I see the name Vladimir Pantelic in the m3po firmware binary... 11.38.53 # hehe 11.38.56 # dwihno: nice! 11.38.58 Nick Zagor|donuts is now known as Zagor (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 11.39.10 # That name keeps popping up 11.39.50 # well he worked/works for Archos, doesn't he? 11.39.58 # possibly 11.40.25 # i also assume that he has something to do with the pitch control on the m3po 11.41.28 # Zagor: how well does the loadable font stuff work? 11.41.46 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus|lunch (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 11.41.51 # dwihno: fairly well, but for fixed-width fonts only yet 11.42.02 # i'm working on that now 11.44.03 # when it works, all other font code well be thrown out 11.44.07 # Zagor: 5x7 is proportional, and it works OK 11.44.25 # oh, it does? 11.44.29 # except for the spacing against the icons 11.44.44 # however, the bdf2ajf converter sucks 11.44.56 # yes, very much 11.45.09 # Zagor: kick-ass! :D 11.45.10 # 5x7 is about the only proprtional font it can convert 11.45.24 # it's not proportional. m is the same width as i 11.46.08 # sorry, my mistake 11.46.26 # it looked proportional for a while, then i got sober 11.46.30 # hehe 11.46.42 # no more drinks at lunch for you 11.46.48 # :-) 11.47.56 # :-) 11.53.08 # yum 11.53.09 # gröt 12.12.15 DEBUG EOF from server (Connection reset by peer) 12.12.15 *** Cleanup 12.12.15 *** Cleanup 12.12.15 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 12.12.15 *** Exit 12.12.21 *** Started Dancer V4.16p1 12.12.21 *** Connected to irc.eu.openprojects.net on port 6667 12.12.21 *** Logfile for #rockbox started 12.12.22 *** Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag' 12.12.22 Mode "logbot :+i" by logbot 12.12.22 Join logbot [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 12.12.22 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 12.12.22 Join notch|busy [0] (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk) 12.12.22 Join @Zagor [0] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 12.12.22 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.12.22 Join @Linus|lunch [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 12.12.22 Join PsycoXul [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-56.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 12.12.22 Join RipnetUK [0] (~george@ripnet.fsnet.co.uk) 12.12.22 Join adi|work [0] (~adiamas@pool-151-204-138-24.ny325.east.verizon.net) 12.12.22 Join webmind [0] (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl) 12.12.22 Join matp|work [0] (~mpritch@gateway.riversoft.com) 12.12.22 Join adi|home [0] (~adiamas@as5300-10.216-194-24-54.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) 12.12.22 Join ironi__ [0] (~ironi@80.88.116.93) 12.12.22 Join Synthe [0] (Synthe@galt.synthe.net) 12.12.22 Join fragglet [0] (~fraggle@62.253.119.151) 12.12.22 Join dwihno [0] (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) 12.12.22 Join datazone [0] ([0x72LyCYj@207.136.36.203) 12.12.22 Join mbr|gone [0] (~tiw4mabr@rhlx01.fht-esslingen.de) 12.12.22 Join TummGBG [0] (coyote@mysko.net) 12.12.22 Join Hes [0] (~hessu@hessu.zedi.sonera.fi) 12.12.23 Join Hadaka [0] (naked@graywolf.onnanifujiyuu.org) 12.25.01 # ahh, helvetica is a nice font 12.28.43 Nick Linus|lunch is now known as LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 12.34.54 # and it's a full unicode font. neato++ 12.35.53 # is helvetica free? 12.36.01 # yup 12.36.28 # w/h? 12.36.28 # comes with XFree86 12.37.28 # proper height 10, but we can do some tricks to shrink it 12.37.46 # 90% of a glyphs have upper and lower 2 empty 12.38.34 # it's not perfect, but a good starting point for testing 12.39.50 # the full unicode font is 80k in bdf format (text) 12.41.11 # uh, it's not full. it just has a few extra pages other than 8859-1 12.41.19 # i'll be quiet now :) 12.41.31 # (at last) 12.41.38 Join PsycoXuul [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-41-15.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 12.41.44 # * Zagor sobs 12.42.43 # maybe i was too hard on that guy on the mailing list about the 200-file limit... :-) 12.44.17 # no, i think it was alright. if he wants to waste his ram with huge dirs he knows how to do it 12.45.11 # f*cking spammers! 12.45.21 # didn't we merge the remote serial code? 12.45.31 # not yet. feel free to. 12.46.17 # What status is the loader thingy? It bugs on 1.27d firmware? 12.46.55 # yes 12.47.06 # hmm 12.52.31 # Does it work on the recorder yet? 12.52.34 Quit PsycoXul (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12.53.36 Nick PsycoXuul is now known as PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-41-15.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 12.54.29 # Ahh, religion wars, here we come. 12.54.46 # Hes: i answered "yes" on the question if it bugs :-) 12.54.56 # long time since I saw a *real* religion war in mailing lists :-) 12.56.18 # some people just don't have a sense of humor 12.58.13 # Yeah. I had a really small link to the 'shit happens' list, some wooden-eyed random US-based web surfer got really angry at it 12.59.57 # http://hes.iki.fi/misc/shit.html in case it's new to someone 8-) 13.00.39 # Actually the guy/people that wrote the thing knew quite a bit about world religions 8-) 13.04.25 # Zagor: i think you should merge the remote control patch, since you have one :-) 13.04.51 # hehe. opk 13.04.52 # ok 13.10.44 Join Bino_monk [0] (Bugger@vpooley.fsnet.co.uk) 13.13.29 Quit Bino_monk (Client Quit) 13.23.50 # cool, it works. just need to test on player too. 13.24.05 # the remote code? 13.24.37 # dude, how did you guys get the volume to be so much louder? 13.25.18 # there are lots of sound settings in the chip 13.25.33 # we also got the player to pop and crackle sometimes :-( 13.25.45 # Bagder: yup 13.26.03 # neato! 13.26.12 # people have been wanting that 13.26.26 # * Bagder bows before notch 13.26.39 # it'll have to be bit of a kludge though, since there are more buttons on the remote than on the player... :-) 13.26.55 # hehe 13.28.39 # bah, of course the batteries of my busted-charger player are empty :( 13.29.33 # LinusN: you should probably get my player-new for distortion hunting 13.29.45 # I have it 13.30.03 # umm, do I have the old? 13.30.15 # * Zagor mixes up all his ... archi? 13.30.18 # yes, that is why we swapped them the other day 13.31.52 # ah, right 13.32.46 # I want to build a remote controller with large buttons which can be operated with driving gloves on 8-) 13.33.10 # Volume control while driving is a must, the noise level difference is huge between 80 and 140 km/h 13.33.11 # don't you have those buttons in the steering wheel? just a bit of soldering... 13.34.35 # No steering wheel on my bike 8-) and no extra buttons either. http://hes.iki.fi/photo/mopot/?c=v&ctype=medium&first=11&count=1 13.34.57 # Want something that I can strap on the outside of the driving suit 13.35.37 # Nice bike 13.40.14 Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe@141.211.2.204) 13.40.23 # hi eric 13.40.29 # hello 13.44.45 # my box rocks! 13.45.17 # oh, really? 13.45.33 # haha 13.46.24 Join elinenbe_ [0] (~eric@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) 13.46.50 Quit elinenbe ("Leaving") 13.46.58 # lots of elinenbe:s here... 13.47.24 Mode "#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) 13.48.01 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (~eric@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) 13.49.29 # any ideas how to handle the vol+/- buttons on the player? Recorder gets BUTTON_UP/DOWN, but those are the same as PLAY/STOP on recorder. We should split them IMHO, so player doesn't use UP/DOWN in normal code 13.49.53 # those are the same as PLAY/STOP on *player*, i mean 13.51.33 # or, we introduce two new buttons: BUTTON_VOL_UP and BUTTON_VOL_DOWN. I think that's best. 13.53.14 Part Bagder 13.53.24 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 13.53.27 Part Bagder 13.53.35 # bouncy bouncy 13.53.44 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 13.53.52 # I think I got the charger working much better now. Charged to 5.52V without false stops 13.54.02 # Hes: nice 13.54.02 # In the future, some kind of individual button configuration in the settings menu would be neato 13.54.06 # nice 13.54.23 # yes, we need to start thinking on how to allow custom keys definitions 13.54.28 # Hes: good work 13.54.39 Part LinusN 13.55.32 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 13.55.35 # if there are custom keys and all settings can be customized, then people will not aregue with rockbox developers, but will argue amongst themselves about the proper way to set things up 13.55.52 # that's a good thing 13.56.05 # instead we will have a hard time answering support requests 13.56.14 # "i pressed LEFT and it crashed" 13.56.16 # that's a bad thing :-) 13.56.21 # hey 13.56.26 # i doub't we'll have many such bugs 13.56.27 # we can limit functionality for that reason 13.56.46 # i assume you meant "can't" 13.56.53 # uh yes ;-) 13.57.01 # * Bagder can spell ;-P 13.57.49 # who changed the Pitch control bug report? 13.57.55 # i did 13.58.10 # "next release" 13.58.20 # uh? no i didn't do that 13.59.24 # i guess that field changed itself 13.59.39 # i wish we could get our hands on that DSP code... 13.59.48 # well, we can, but not legally 14.00.08 # i didn't change anything. i closed a similar request days ago. get a grip. 14.00.37 Join Hadaka_ [0] (naked@graywolf.onnanifujiyuu.org) 14.00.37 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.00.49 # get someone to get it for you who is young and doesn't care about legal ramifications 14.00.55 # Zagor: i just received a mail, saying that it has changed 14.01.16 # yup, me too. but this time it wasn't me. 14.01.18 # I think the reporter changed it 14.01.27 # since he filed the same comment again 14.01.36 # the mail should contain who changed it 14.01.45 # that was some days ago 14.02.07 # hehe, now i see. he changed it himself 14.02.30 # what is it with that person? 14.02.41 # i'm removing that group 14.02.45 # people are generally insane ;-) 14.03.56 # except us of course 14.04.24 # no need to mention that 14.05.34 # do we know what DSP that is in the MAS? 14.05.57 # i don't think it's public 14.05.58 # its a Micronas one too 14.06.15 # we did get some good indications from some docs somewhere 14.06.22 # can't remember exactly right now 14.07.00 # i thought it was some Motorola DSP 14.07.14 # I don't think so 14.07.29 # can you reach edx's page? 14.07.42 # what page? 14.07.47 # http://codeforce.d2g.com/rockbox/autocvs 14.09.07 # seems dead 14.09.12 # i'm opening the request item again, for investigation 14.09.20 # what item? 14.09.35 # the change pitch 14.09.36 # ic 14.12.23 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.13.19 # "we have completely revised and refined the entire speed change without disturbing the pitch" and a downloadable firmware/os. time for some reverse engineering, methinks! 14.13.23 # Hes: Re driving remote - check out : http://www.geocities.com/notching/Sony-archos-remote.html 14.14.31 # Zagor: yes, but reverse engineering the DSP code is beyond reach without knowing the DSP type 14.14.47 # yeah, but can always steal it ;) 14.15.11 # I have the firmware in my hexl-mode emacs 14.15.32 # the HW seems very Archos-like 14.15.36 # "MAS has a digital signal processor (DSP) core offering a performance of 40MIPS or 80MIPS for complex multiplications." 14.15.40 # we should at least be able to conclude if they use custom dsp or not 14.15.54 # I would say they do 14.16.08 # i think so to, but we want to be certain 14.16.09 # "Owing to the fact that the 3507's DSP core does not need to run at full speed, the power consumption can be kept quite low." 14.16.13 # how else coudl they do it? 14.22.06 # "For fast access of internal DSP states the processor core has an address space of 256 data registers, which can be accessed by the device's I2C bus." 14.22.21 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|out (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 14.23.26 # Committed charger changes now... 14.24.02 # battery_level_safe() now uses the last minute's average too. 14.24.05 # has anyone with cvs dev acess committed my serial remote source? 14.24.10 # (if one is available) 14.24.19 Join liam_ [0] (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) 14.24.35 # notch|busy: Zagor is working with it, but I don't think he committed anything yet 14.25.04 Nick liam_ is now known as jedix` (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) 14.26.38 # I dont think he likes my #idef 's ;-) 14.26.45 # #ifdef 14.27.14 # well, he is The Code Police ;-] 14.28.50 # Bagder: my page is down.. that is the dns service i am using is down :/ 14.29.17 # ah, ok 14.29.42 # hmm id like to have a top level domain but i have a dynamic ip.. 14.32.59 # From: Uwe Freese 14.32.59 # Reply-To: rockbox@cool.haxx.se 14.32.59 # To: Heikki Hannikainen 14.33.03 # Heh, funny To:. 14.33.55 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.34.00 Join elinenbe_ [0] (~eric@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) 14.36.36 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (~eric@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) 14.57.13 # * Bagder is in a bad mood today 14.57.14 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.57.38 # * LinusN is afraid of Bagder today 14.58.02 # * Bagder curses all silly people in the world 14.58.25 # * LinusN doesn't want to be cursed 14.59.23 # it so annoys me, I want to build an app with like 200 source files, from various directories... 14.59.37 # ... and I can build one nice makefile with automated dependencies and things... 15.00.00 # ... until I found out that N directories are using the same name of some local header file, so I can't use the same CFLAGS for all files... 15.02.10 # so now I need to write N separate makefiles 15.03.02 Quit edx ("later") 15.06.12 # Current CVS: Main.c is not compiling... 15.06.49 # isn't it just a collision in your cvs update? 15.07.31 # is there an easy way to refresh my main.c (not update it?) 15.07.46 # just delete it and then update 15.07.52 # cheers! 15.08.43 # yep must have been a collision.... 15.10.18 # the compile status shows all green, so it looked like that 15.15.17 Nick Hadaka_ is now known as Hadaka (naked@graywolf.onnanifujiyuu.org) 15.35.56 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.41.35 # sourceforge isn't updated to 1.2 yet 15.43.55 # Bagder: how to update? 15.44.17 # ftp the files to upload.source.net/incoming/ 15.44.23 # then go admin => release 15.44.40 # upload.sourceforge.net/incoming/ 15.45.01 # lots of clicks and fill in descriptions etc 15.47.39 Nick Zagor|out is now known as Zagor (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) 15.47.44 # edx: your mail is bouncing again 15.47.56 # edx:(reason: 550 5.7.1 ... Relaying denied) 15.49.46 # notch|busy: what's this "let the hardware settle" delay? do you have a number how long we must wait? 15.50.34 # Zagor: it is the time you have to wait for the baud rate generator to get in synch 15.50.54 # which is how long? I want to replace the busy loop with a sleep 15.50.55 # i can't seem to find the passus in the data sheets that tell us exactly how long to wait 15.51.03 # i think it's "1 bit time" 15.51.18 # sleep(1) will be enough 15.51.22 # ok 15.51.49 # is it vital to read SSR1 before setting it? 15.52.00 # yes 15.52.06 # roger 15.52.22 # " a bit is cleared after a 1 has been read and 0 is written to it" 15.52.31 # ah 15.55.27 # Zagor: I dont have acess to the standard remote, so I dont know how fast it can spit data at the serial port 15.56.23 # ok. it doesn't spit very fast, so I removed the repeat limiter 15.56.41 # It may send data at faster rates in order to impliement the track fast forward function 15.57.15 # okay 15.57.55 # We need a way to find out how to set the REPEAT flag correctly? 15.58.33 Join Monkey__ [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-156-147-97.owb.bellsouth.net) 15.58.38 # wondered why I couldnt get FF to work - I gues it was never implemented for the remote in the standard archos firmware... 15.59.02 # really? 15.59.13 Quit Monkey__ (Client Quit) 16.00.02 # Well can you fast forward within a track with the remote - anyone know (stock firmware) ? 16.00.37 # * Bagder has no remote 16.01.51 Nick notch|busy is now known as notch (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk) 16.02.44 # Zagor: yes.. the damn DNS supplying server is down 16.03.09 # Thinking about it...George Styles posted to the list that the remote code worked fine... 16.03.31 # so I guess there was no FF function on the remote... 16.03.37 # Zagor: did you try the update_rect() yet? 16.12.27 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.14.28 # 5:12pm up 81 day(s), 7:23, 24 users, load average: 3.47, 7.24, 7.41 16.14.30 # whops 16.14.34 # channel lottery. 16.14.47 # did we win? ;-) 16.17.35 # nope 16.17.37 Part LinusN 16.17.39 # darn 16.22.21 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 16.24.10 # LinusN: tunnel probbs? 16.24.27 # yup 16.27.55 # Julien Labruyère updated his design #5 16.28.02 # http://rockbox.haxx.se/tshirt-contest/designs.html 16.29.32 # time to go home 16.29.36 # cu giys! 16.29.38 # bye LinusN 16.29.47 Part LinusN 16.30.23 # Bagder: nope, haven't tried yet 16.31.12 # Please try out the tuned charger... 16.33.28 Quit edx ("later") 16.40.24 Join grummel [0] (lamamba_@h135n1fls34o883.telia.com) 16.40.58 # any bodi here?! 16.41.05 # sure 16.41.47 # u tried the remote patch?! 16.41.54 # nope 16.42.00 # Zagor has 16.42.08 # and notch ;-) 16.42.22 # do u know what they think?! 16.42.34 # notch wrote it, so I guess he thinks it works 16.42.41 # =) 16.43.10 # I've heard no complaints yet anyway 16.43.41 # well apart from coding 'faults' :-)) 16.43.44 # is it reliable(unlike with stock firmware) 16.43.49 # ? 16.44.18 # how is the stock unreliable? 16.45.18 # "they" say that it sometimes has got a will of it's own! 16.46.16 # i will test the remote patch tonight... thestock remote IS unreliable, it sometimes dies, ad you haev to press a volume key to get it working again... when i tried the original Notch patch, it was much better. Not only that, but the keys were mapped direct to 'real' keys, so it was a lot morelogical than the Archos remote 16.48.54 # was that on a player/recorder 16.50.36 # recorder - just to be clear - it was the original (archos) which had the problem, not the Notch patch 16.51.56 # ok, I think I might just go out and buy me a remote 16.53.56 # grummel - be warned, they are a bit crap... they EAT battaries, and they require taking apart to replace the battaries, and the wire is not good at handling being bent - i had to chop mine and re-solder it because the wire broke inside as it entered the remote unit... while doing this, i knocked a surface mount resister off the board, and it took some to get that back again :) 16.54.15 # better to make your own :-) 16.54.53 # Someone suggested a mod to take a sony remote - that would be cool. 16.54.54 # ahhh! 16.57.20 # but would still need power, or a 'take apart my baby (archos)' mod 16.58.24 # yeah, sony remote would be cool, i have a spare from my Clie which I never use for MP3 16.58.28 # just a resistance 17.04.49 # gotta run 17.04.51 Part Bagder 17.12.25 # so what batteries do you guys find are the best for the archos 17.13.17 # i just picked up some 1700mAh energizers... hope they are good 17.13.32 # now to find a good charger 17.18.10 # RipnetUK: you dont need power if you mod the archos with a pullup resistor.... 17.19.27 # i.e. turn the digital input to an anlog one an add a pullup (10k). 17.19.38 # and then write some code of course! 17.48.12 # yeah, but I aint soldering my favorate toy :( 17.48.41 # can we use the analog in somehow? the line in? 17.51.10 # if we could take a sample, we could use a lot less power from the battary in the remote if we stuck it through a sony remote, and measured the voltage on the analog in? impossible? most likely :( 17.51.57 # i suspect we are stuck with the RS232 remote if we dont want to take the Archos apart 17.55.37 # the line in goes directly to the mp3 encoder on the recorder. on the player, it goes nowhere. 18.12.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.16.48 # ok 18.24.24 # are loadable fonts proportional? i ask because the config file seems to make them muturally exclusive 18.25.20 # they are not yet, but they will be. prop fonts and loadable fonts use different code, that's why they are mutexed. all font code will be merged to a single set soon, though 18.30.48 Join brucessherwood [0] (~bruces@64.3.27.50) 18.36.54 Part brucessherwood ("Client Exiting") 18.38.51 Quit grummel () 18.44.28 Quit RipnetUK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18.50.14 Join grummel [0] (lamamba_@h135n1fls34o883.telia.com) 19.06.27 Quit grummel () 19.48.00 Join RipnetUK [0] (~george@ripnet.fsnet.co.uk) 19.54.25 # just tried the remote code - it doesnt work properly :( vol up/down do not do anything - in original patch they correctly mimicked the up/down allowing directory browsing... 19.55.08 # using JBR20 19.55.35 # volume only works in wps, just like the keypad 19.55.49 # we can add volume during browsing too, I just didn't do it in the first patch 19.56.22 # I agree it's a little unintuitive 19.56.27 # no, in the original patch, the volume keys did up/down in the dir list 19.56.32 # and volume in WPS 19.56.37 # exactly like the real keys 19.57.02 # yes, but that's wrong. it would makes player/recorder remote work differently 19.57.47 # but its better... volume doesnt seem to do anything even in WPS 19.58.18 # i liked it before when the vol keys were the same as pressing up/down on the unit itself 19.59.00 # so what should they do on player? 19.59.43 # see my point? 20.00.05 # dont know... whatever people want i guess, but why limit the functionality of recorder because the player has less keys? surely we need to use the #defines to change the behaviour, or allow a setup menu to assign remote keys to real keys, which is different on the player and recorder? 20.00.47 # at the moment, you cannot browse around the jukebox with the remote - which was a major feature (IMHO) of the original Notch patch... 20.00.52 # sure, we can add that VOL_UP goes up in the browser. but they ARE different keys. I will not have different keys send the same symbol. 20.01.28 # the fix should be in apps/tree.c, not firmware/driver/serial.c 20.01.54 # ??? surely a one-one mapping of keys on remote to keys on unit is whats required? not sure exactly how the player works as dont have one, but i liked the way the remote keys just emulated the real keys 20.02.17 # maybe I should build the player simulator and have a play... 20.02.29 # gotta pop out, but I promised I would report on the remote when I got home... talk later? 20.03.08 # but my other point is volume keys do NOTHING even on the WPS 20.03.14 # but there *are* no volume keys on the unit, so we can't emulate "real" keys. that was just an assignment. the remote control introduces two *new* buttons 20.03.35 # I just noticed that too. Very strange, I had it working previously. Checking. 20.03.49 # I see, could I ask for an option to do a straight one-to-one mapping for recorders? its really simple that way 20.03.50 # sure, see you later. 20.03.55 # bye 20.10.32 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.12.31 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.19.06 # zagor - thanks for fixing that :) 21.19.34 # its works good now 21.34.04 Join elinenbe [0] (~elin@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) 21.35.47 Join Electrocut [0] (Electrocut@rennes-1-a7-62-147-96-161.dial.proxad.net) 22.12.32 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 22.18.04 Join Lovechild [0] (~david@3E6B23CE.aarh.stofanet.dk) 22.27.08 Quit Electrocut () 22.30.16 Join JuNoN [0] (Banditlead@4.2.252.64.snet.net) 22.40.46 Quit adi|home (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.44.18 Quit JuNoN ("I MADE IT ONTO THE CSR CHARTS!!! #59!!!!!") 22.45.11 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se) 22.46.04 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.03.50 Quit edx ("good night, guys") 23.11.06 Part Lovechild 23.19.48 Quit RipnetUK () 23.30.27 Part jedix` ("Client Exiting") 23.32.47 # * adi|work screams softly in the night... 23.33.31 # that dream again? about forever having to use archos' firmware? there, there... 23.34.05 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting") 23.34.17 # i think that was the "oh crap the volume is at 100%, my poor ears" scream 23.34.18 # * adi|work sniffles 23.34.37 # no.. it has to do with 'users' not acceptings agreeded upon limits 23.34.45 # the whole 200 dir thing 23.34.54 # don't we have more important thngs to work on? 23.34.59 # * adi|work sighs 23.35.00 # * Zagor agrees 23.35.41 # hey, whats wrong with wanting 1 gazillion gazillion songs in a directory? :) 23.36.03 # hehe nothing 23.36.13 # but im on the verge of pulling my LART out 23.36.29 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se) 23.36.58 # have you read about serial ata? they're cutting the number of data wires down from 40 to 7 23.37.18 # but at the same time, they bump the number of power lines from 4 to 15... *sigh* 23.37.38 # so, basically, the mess will be constant 23.37.53 # * adi|work sees your mouth moving but doesn't understand your words 23.38.14 # http://www6.tomshardware.com/storage/02q3/020812/index.html 23.38.46 Part matsl 23.38.46 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se) 23.38.51 Part matsl 23.38.51 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se) 23.42.22 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) 23.42.28 # heyy, bagder! 23.42.32 # hey ho 23.42.48 # Bagder: my friend! 23.43.22 # matsl: I've figured out the player sim problem 23.43.34 # Bagder: need hint on the missing two chars problem in ... so 23.43.59 # matsl: since it uses the recorder lcd functions, and they're limited to the LCD_WIDTH... 23.44.11 # when I increased the player sim font, it grew beyond that size 23.44.13 # ahhhhahah 23.44.24 # so it need to be enlarged conditionally 23.44.27 # ok 23.44.46 # ok 23.44.53 # I haven't tried this myself, but it feels right ;-) 23.45.20 # what's the story about it using the recorde lcd-functions? 23.45.43 # basicly because those are working graphical functions with pixel control 23.46.13 # * Zagor rolls his eyes as the 200/dir discussion comes around for lap #2... 23.46.40 # and the lcd_width isn't the same for player and recorder then? 23.46.56 # matsl: LCD_WIDTH is set to 112 pixels as that is how wide a recorder screen is 23.47.05 # a player sim need not to have that limit 23.47.18 # I set it to use the largest font 23.47.21 # 16 pixels 23.47.29 # or is it 12? 23.47.33 # whatever, times 11 23.47.38 # makes more than 112 23.48.01 # Bagder: ok. I'm getting the picture. 23.48.37 # Bagder: I have time now to try it. OK? 23.48.51 # well I don't ;-) 23.48.54 # so you go 23.49.12 # ok. 23.49.44 # Zagor: What's so fun with the 200 dir problem? 23.50.50 # it's not fun, that's the whole point. it's an academic question. only one guy has ever bumped into the limit, but everyone screams "a limit! get rid of it now!!!" 23.52.35 # If I'm not mistaken I'm heading straight against tripping over it. But I have only a 6GB disk so I guess I'm safe for now ;-) 23.53.00 # may I ask how you navigate among those 200 files? 23.53.06 # well, if anyone feels strong enough they write a fix for it 23.53.14 # if they don't, they don't feel strong enough ;-) 23.53.45 # Sequential ... 23.54.51 # Zagor: Anyway, I don't say get rid of it. I only say tell the user whats wrong when it happens. 23.55.19 # that's a reasonable point