--- Log for 18.10.102  Server: brunner.openprojects.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16p1  Started: 7 days and 11 hours ago

00.00.43 #       <langhaarrocker> cu tomorrow
00.00.57 #       <Zagor> bye
00.01.52 #       <tot|away> hello
00.01.53 Nick    tot|away is now known as TotMacher (tot@p5084AACC.dip.t-dialin.net)
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01.08.45 #       <O7713> hmm does the archos tell you when the battery is fully charged?
01.09.23 #       <webbie> it should ?
01.09.56 #       <O7713> its charging since like 8 hours or so now, strange
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07.51.58 Join    Bagder [241] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
07.52.30 #       <Bagder> hey ho
07.52.42 Mode    "#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07.53.00 Topic   "Rockbox - No Sugar Added." by Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
07.55.16 Join    dokewalke [0] (dokewalker@146.151.44.48)
07.56.03 #       <dokewalke> is any one around?
07.56.09 #       <Bagder> yeps
07.56.21 #       <dokewalke> hey
07.57.10 #       <dokewalke> I want to help out with this, I have some experice programing but not on this level at all
07.57.17 #       <dokewalke> thought it would be a good learning experice
07.57.21 #       <Bagder> oh it is
07.57.30 #       <dokewalke> experince
07.57.32 #       <Bagder> nad its fun!
07.57.33 #       <Bagder> and
07.57.53 #       <dokewalke> could you help me out, - how do I get started
07.57.59 #       <dokewalke> ?
07.58.06 #       <Bagder> you run windows or linux?
07.58.53 #       <dokewalke> both - but much more comeforetable in windows - I'm tring ot learn linux
07.58.53 #       <dokewalke> in windows now
07.59.49 #       <Bagder> ok, you have anything against using cygwin?
08.00.13 #       <dokewalke> I don't know what that is
08.00.13 #       <dokewalke> so no
08.00.41 #       <Bagder> cygwin is lots of stuff and an emulation layer for running unix-stuff on windows
08.01.19 #       <dokewalke> cool
08.01.35 #       <Bagder> http://merwin.bespin.org/sh1cygwin
08.01.57 #       <Bagder> I'm not entirely sure if you're supposed to install the real cygwin package first or just this package
08.02.01 #       <Bagder> I
08.02.06 #       <Bagder> 'm a linux person myself
08.02.56 #       <dokewalke> i've been playing around it in - it works really well with my datastructure class
08.03.20 #       <dokewalke> I can sftp and ssh and compile java really easily from the console
08.03.26 #       <dokewalke> but I still haven't got my jukebox working on it yet
08.04.21 #       <Bagder> on linux, you only need to follow this instruction:
08.04.26 #       <Bagder> http://rockbox.haxx.se/cross-gcc.html
08.07.45 #       <dokewalke> i can follow that web page - so thats the steps for the compiler?
08.07.54 #       <Bagder> yes
08.08.15 #       <Bagder> when that is setup, you just need to get the sources and build rockbox
08.08.20 #       <Bagder> http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/how_to_compile.html
08.09.51 #       <dokewalke> ok - now how do I get linux to see my player?
08.10.06 #       <Bagder> what model is it?
08.10.35 #       <dokewalke> Jukebox Studio 20
08.10.52 #       <Bagder> and what linux kernel do you run?
08.12.01 #       <dokewalke> umm- redhat 7.2, it that what you want to know?
08.12.09 #       <dokewalke> I'm really new to this
08.12.22 #       <Bagder> no, do "uname -a"
08.12.35 #       <Bagder> it tells which kernel that runs
08.12.38 #       <Bagder> kernel version
08.13.00 #       <Bagder> you need a driver for the player's USB circuit, the ISD200
08.13.14 #       <Bagder> Björn's driver is included in kerneln 2.4.8 and later
08.14.07 #       <dokewalke> I have to reboot to get into linux
08.14.24 #       <dokewalke> how long are you going to be around?
08.14.37 #       <Bagder> many hours more
08.14.42 #       <dokewalke> cool
08.14.47 #       <dokewalke> be right back
08.14.51 Quit    dokewalke ()
08.27.09 Join    THE-SA1NT [0] (BLING@12-215-247-71.client.mchsi.com)
08.29.36 #       <THE-SA1NT> Hi. Can someone help me out with the Fujitsu password lock problem? I'm trying ARCHOSUnlock.exe and when it boots up it says 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02'  Any help would be fantastic.
08.31.30 #       <Bagder> I've never tried/used it
08.31.41 #       <THE-SA1NT> Hmm.
08.31.43 #       <THE-SA1NT> Well damn.
08.34.13 Join    merwin [0] (~none@65.218.154.2)
08.34.23 #       <Bagder> hey merwin
08.34.38 #       <merwin> hey bagder... I found an issue that I can take care of :P
08.34.40 #       <merwin> easy one actually
08.35.03 #       <merwin> when you press "Reset Settings", you get a blank screen :-)
08.35.07 #       <merwin> on the player at least
08.35.25 #       <Bagder> oops
08.36.31 Join    dokewalker [0] (~Dan@146.151.44.48)
08.36.47 #       <dokewalker> ok - i had to get an irc client
08.37.24 #       <dokewalker> you still here?
08.37.33 #       <merwin> who you lookin for doke?
08.37.44 #       <dokewalker> Badger
08.37.54 #       <merwin> he's here
08.37.57 #       <Bagder> *present*
08.38.29 #       <dokewalker> all right - my kernal is 2.4.7-10
08.38.35 #       <Bagder> ugh
08.38.40 #       <THE-SA1NT> "HD register error    SC1  (85)   128, SN1  (170)  128, SC2  (170)  128, SN2  (85)   128
08.38.45 #       <THE-SA1NT> What the hell does that mean?
08.39.06 #       <Bagder> THE-SA1NT: no idea, zagor might know when he pops in
08.39.29 #       <THE-SA1NT> 2 Jukeboxes and neither of them work..  :(
08.39.30 #       <Bagder> dokewalker: so you need to upgrade, or apply Zagor's driver as a patch 
08.40.29 #       <Bagder> merwin: while you're here, that cygwin package of yours, is that for installation _after_ a regular cygwin install or does it replace it completely?
08.41.39 Join    Zagor [0] (~bjst@217.215.170.33)
08.41.56 #       * THE-SA1NT points at Zagor
08.42.01 #       <THE-SA1NT> They told me to wait for you.
08.42.09 #       <Zagor> tadaa, here I am
08.42.12 #       <Bagder> :-)
08.42.14 #       <merwin> Bagder: you do a full install of cygwin (minus X11), and then unzip it to an appropriate folder creating a folder structure that is the same as the unix install
08.42.49 #       <THE-SA1NT> [01:38] <THE-SA1NT> "HD register error    SC1  (85)   128, SN1  (170)  128, SC2  (170)  128, SN2  (85)   128"   Whats that mean?
08.42.51 #       * merwin is in beautiful Atlanta, Georgia... suprisingly cold for this time of the year
08.43.31 #       <Zagor> THE-SA1NT: that's the archos firmware complaining. mostly it happens with low batteries.
08.43.42 #       <THE-SA1NT> They're brand new and freshly charged.  :(
08.44.08 #       <Zagor> hmm, bad
08.44.30 #       <merwin> what is the link to the cvs instructions?
08.44.52 #       <Bagder> documentation => cvs
08.44.56 #       <merwin> ahh
08.45.04 #       * THE-SA1NT beats his head against the wall..
08.45.08 #       <merwin> makes sense now
08.45.10 #       <THE-SA1NT> Heres another question..
08.45.24 #       <THE-SA1NT> [01:29] <THE-SA1NT> Hi. Can someone help me out with the Fujitsu password lock problem? I'm trying ARCHOSUnlock.exe and when it boots up it says 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02'  Any help would be fantastic.
08.46.16 #       <Zagor> THE-SA1NT: which archos model do you have?
08.46.39 #       <THE-SA1NT> The first problem is with the 6000-recorder, the second question is about the 6000
08.47.54 Quit    dokewalker ("Client Exiting")
08.50.27 #       <Zagor> THE-SA1NT: i guess you don't run linux normally?
08.50.34 #       * THE-SA1NT chews on some green cells.
08.50.44 #       <THE-SA1NT> Well, no.  :\
08.56.40 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08.56.52 #       <THE-SA1NT> Any ideas?
08.57.24 #       <merwin> damn, I hate setting up cygwin on new laptops :P
08.58.45 #       <Zagor> THE-SA1NT: can't say I do. when did this start happening?
08.59.42 Join    langhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@dsl-2129326-096.ip.versatel.de)
08.59.53 #       <THE-SA1NT> When I tried to run ARCHOSUnlock.exe boot disk.
09.00.24 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: have you forgotten to sleep again?
09.00.27 #       <THE-SA1NT> It all loads fine up until after it loads the USB drivers then says, 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02'
09.00.37 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: oh, missed that... ;)
09.08.36 #       <Zagor> THE-SA1NT: no, i mean when did you start seeing the disk problem?
09.08.46 Quit    merwin ()
09.09.03 #       <THE-SA1NT> Oh, no idea. Months ago, but I've been too busy to work on them.
09.09.06 #       <THE-SA1NT> Until today.
09.09.41 #       <langhaarrocker> Couldn't live for months without the jukebox.
09.10.07 #       <THE-SA1NT> Well, I didn't really need it til college started again.
09.10.24 #       * Bagder learned what jukebox is called in finnish yesterday
09.10.28 #       <THE-SA1NT> And the errors prevented me from using them, really.
09.10.36 #       <Bagder> "jukiboxi"
09.10.53 #       <Bagder> (only heard it, don't know the spell)
09.12.56 #       <langhaarrocker> probably a magic spell
09.14.52 Join    matsl [0] (~matsl@dhcp102.contactor.se)
09.26.31 Nick    mem_away is now known as mem (~mem@host38-2.bluelabs.se)
09.29.38 #       <matsl> Bagder: discussed with kjer to use double sized font for player as you suggested earlier.
09.29.47 #       <Bagder> ok
09.29.59 #       <Bagder> perhaps that's no needed anymore
09.30.04 #       <Bagder> using his resizable window
09.30.09 #       <matsl> after that the player simulator should look ok I think.
09.30.17 #       <Bagder> ok
09.30.36 #       <matsl> Yes. resize window if you want it to be bigger.
09.30.53 #       <Bagder> the resize bugs bad though
09.31.24 #       <matsl> with double size font I mean. use 10x14 font that looks like 5x7 (or whatever size it is on the real font.)
09.31.33 #       <Bagder> I understand
09.31.49 Join    merwin [0] (~none@65.218.154.2)
09.31.50 Join    dokewalker [0] (~Dan@adam044-048.resnet.wisc.edu)
09.31.50 #       <Bagder> I just thought that perhaps that's not necessary anymore when you can resize and zoom the window
09.31.51 #       <matsl> there are things to do to the resize also
09.32.28 #       <matsl> yes but the icons can't be made smaller so they don't fit on a 6*11 width screen.
09.32.35 #       <Bagder> ah, good point
09.32.51 #       <matsl> Bagder: kjer sais hello!
09.33.10 #       <Bagder> tell him his resize is crap ;-)
09.33.13 #       <Zagor> matsl: tell him to get himself in here
09.33.27 #       <Bagder> it doesn't work on my machine
09.33.37 #       <Bagder> it jumps back and forth like crazy
09.33.43 #       <Bagder> and I know why
09.33.54 #       <matsl> tell him now
09.33.59 #       <Zagor> and the scroll bugs, and he uses the wrong font, and...
09.34.18 #       <matsl> we are working on that!
09.34.27 #       <Zagor> good
09.34.36 #       <Bagder> it bugs because he uses 'Expose' and I have a window manager that keeps the windows' contents as much as possible...
09.34.44 #       <Bagder> thus, resize don't get the full window size as 'Expose'
09.34.47 #       <Bagder> meaning...
09.35.00 #       <Bagder> that I can resize it bigger and *plopp* get my zoom *tiny*
09.35.28 #       <Bagder> it practicly makes it impossible to zoom
09.37.51 #       <merwin> any clue what error 255 is when make'ing the mod file?
09.39.05 #       <merwin> I think my copy of cygwin is screwed... :(
09.39.07 #       <Bagder> it doesn't say anything?
09.39.54 #       <merwin> Bagder: it complains about chmod a lot when doing the cvs co, and says it's missing files that are there during the build :)
09.40.12 #       <Bagder> oh
09.40.19 #       <Bagder> sounds odd
09.41.34 #       * merwin may have to give up on cygwin for tonight
09.42.11 #       <merwin> yup, the new download of cygwin was f**ked
09.42.54 #       <merwin> good think I have a copy of the old download of cygwin on my archos :-)
09.44.58 #       <merwin> bedtime for me...
09.45.04 Nick    merwin is now known as merwin|zZzZz (~none@65.218.154.2)
09.46.59 #       <dokewalker> hey badger - do you think you could help me get my studio to run under linux
09.47.04 #       <dokewalker> i got 2.4.9-13 now
09.47.35 #       <Zagor> dokewalker: update your kernel
09.47.48 #       <Bagder> doesn't that have your driver?
09.48.07 #       <Zagor> yeah, but it also has some bus in other parts of the usb sybsystem
09.48.11 #       <Zagor> bugs
09.48.21 #       <dokewalker> i'm looking at the web page - its says that Config.in has to be updated
09.48.31 #       <dokewalker> or something - although I cant find it on my system
09.49.25 #       <Zagor> dokewalker: with that old a kernel, you need to compile. and then you need to download the kernel source. and if you are going to do that, why not simply update to the latest and greatest?
09.49.48 #       <dokewalker> is that 2.4.10?
09.50.08 #       <Bagder> 2.4.19 I think
09.50.34 #       <Zagor> yup
09.50.44 #       <merwin|zZzZz> it's still giving me errors when compiling the mod :(
09.50.45 #       <merwin|zZzZz> Updating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/main_menu.c
09.50.45 #       <merwin|zZzZz> main_menu.c:42:18: lang.h: No such file or directory
09.50.46 DBUG    Enqueued KICK merwin|zZzZz
09.50.46 #       <merwin|zZzZz> Updating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/language.c
09.50.46 #       <merwin|zZzZz> language.c:23:18: lang.h: No such file or directory
09.50.47 ***     Alert Mode level 1
09.50.47 #       <merwin|zZzZz> Updating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/credits.c
09.50.47 ***     Alert Mode level 2
09.50.47 #       <merwin|zZzZz> credits.c:28:71: credits.raw: No such file or directory
09.50.51 #       <merwin|zZzZz> stuff like that near the end
09.50.59 #       <Bagder> you need perl
09.51.06 #       <merwin|zZzZz> really?
09.51.22 #       <Bagder> really ;-)
09.51.23 #       <Zagor> those complaints are normal during dependency check
09.51.23 Quit    langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09.51.55 #       <Bagder> but then they're not near the endd
09.52.59 #       <Zagor> dependency checks are never near the end...
09.53.45 Join    langhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@dsl-2129326-096.ip.versatel.de)
09.54.09 #       <merwin|zZzZz> I've got perl
09.54.22 #       <merwin|zZzZz> it dies here:
09.54.22 #       <merwin|zZzZz> sh-elf-gcc  -O -W -Wall -m1 -nostdlib -ffreestanding -Wstrict-prototypes -fomit-
09.54.23 #       <merwin|zZzZz> frame-pointer -fschedule-insns -I../firmware/include -I../firmware -I../firmware
09.54.23 ***     Alert Mode level 3
09.54.23 #       <merwin|zZzZz> /common -I../firmware/drivers -I../firmware/malloc -I. -I/home/Administrator/roc
09.54.24 ***     Alert Mode level 4
09.54.24 #       <merwin|zZzZz> kbox/build -DARCHOS_PLAYER  -DAPPSVERSION=\"021018-0350\"  -Iplayer -c /home/Adm
09.54.24 ***     Alert Mode level 5
09.54.24 #       <merwin|zZzZz> inistrator/rockbox/build/lang.c -o /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/lang.o
09.54.25 ***     Alert Mode level 6
09.54.25 #       <merwin|zZzZz> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `../docs/CREDITS', needed by `/home/Administ
09.54.27 #       <merwin|zZzZz> rator/rockbox/build/credits.raw'.  Stop.
09.54.29 #       <merwin|zZzZz> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/Administrator/rockbox/apps'
09.54.31 #       <merwin|zZzZz> make: *** [apps] Error 2
09.54.37 #       <Zagor> you need to check out the docs/ module from CVS
09.54.48 #       <merwin|zZzZz> you have to check out docs?
09.54.54 #       <Bagder> yeah
09.55.07 #       <merwin|zZzZz> heh, good to know
09.55.35 #       <langhaarrocker> Does anybody know a trick how to remove the jukebox from a Win2k machine without having to log out ?
09.55.42 #       <merwin|zZzZz> wow, that works now
09.55.44 #       <merwin|zZzZz> :)
09.56.19 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: without having to log out??? can't you just "eject" it?
09.56.35 #       <langhaarrocker> no, it says the drive was busy.
09.56.37 #       <langhaarrocker> always
09.57.26 #       <langhaarrocker> (no, I have no files or applications open on the jukebox)
09.57.32 #       <Zagor> that's probably windows doing some junk to it. do you have "system restore" or similar active?
09.57.47 #       <Zagor> I've heard XP has that problem, at least
09.58.03 #       <THE-SA1NT> Go to your "Hardware" tab in your control program..
09.58.03 #       <langhaarrocker> You're right at that point :)
09.58.12 #       <THE-SA1NT> Select the Jukebox, right click, eject.
09.58.39 #       <THE-SA1NT> If it whines, delete it from the list.  :P
09.58.50 #       <merwin|zZzZz> Woo. My first commit in over a month. I should do that more often. heh. NOW it's bedtime
09.58.51 #       <merwin|zZzZz> g'nite all
09.59.06 #       <Zagor> night!
09.59.35 #       <merwin|zZzZz> I thought that I hadn't done much for 1.4, but it turns out that all of the player-specific updates were partially my projects. :P
09.59.57 #       <Zagor> :)
10.00.05 #       <merwin|zZzZz> 1.4 took a very long time to release
10.00.29 #       <Bagder> night merwin
10.00.39 #       <merwin|zZzZz> ok, definitely bedtime. nite
10.04.26 ***     Alert Mode OFF
10.04.54 #       <Bagder> btw, that build table thing
10.05.07 #       <Bagder> it still hasn't collapsed because it uses all build logs as input
10.05.14 #       <Bagder> only showing the 20 newest ones
10.05.21 #       <langhaarrocker> <THE-SA1NT>  It wouldn't allow me because the drive is claimed to be busy.
10.05.53 #       <THE-SA1NT> Just unplug it?
10.05.55 Quit    dokewalker ("Client Exiting")
10.06.45 #       <langhaarrocker> <THE-SA1NT> I consider that dangerous. In that case I'd rather relogin. Then Win2k doesn't complain
10.07.16 #       <THE-SA1NT> Maybe your USB device manager thingie hates you?
10.07.42 #       <THE-SA1NT> :P
10.07.42 #       <Bagder> hey, its windows, did you expect anything else? ;-)
10.07.58 #       <THE-SA1NT> Actually, see if something like NVS or something with three letters one being an N is running in your task manager.
10.08.19 #       <THE-SA1NT> Bagder: Better than OS2/Warp.  :)
10.08.46 #       <Bagder> what's that? :-P
10.09.00 #       <langhaarrocker> <THE-SA1NT> no nvs
10.09.20 #       <langhaarrocker> apart from being evil?
10.09.36 #       <THE-SA1NT> Bagder: google it.  :P
10.09.58 #       <THE-SA1NT> langhaarrocker: Any USB management looking stuff running?
10.10.16 #       <THE-SA1NT> I'm very tired so please pardon my indecriptness.  :P
10.10.17 #       <langhaarrocker> Only that stuff that appeared with the jukebox drivers
10.10.33 #       <THE-SA1NT> Hmm..
10.10.58 #       <Zagor> lsof is nice...
10.11.36 #       <langhaarrocker> What bothers me: it seems that the usb devices appear thrice in the hardware manager.
10.11.45 #       <THE-SA1NT> Kill them..
10.11.56 #       <THE-SA1NT> Maybe they're conflicting on the software side.
10.12.12 #       <langhaarrocker> *&§. Must relogin with more rights. cu.
10.12.20 #       <THE-SA1NT> :\
10.12.24 Quit    langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10.12.28 #       <THE-SA1NT> What the hell is cu?
10.12.36 #       <Bagder> "see you"
10.12.47 #       <THE-SA1NT> Ahh..
10.13.00 #       <THE-SA1NT> I thought it was part of his error message..
10.13.06 #       <THE-SA1NT> I was attempting to decode it. :P
10.13.08 #       <Bagder> hehe
10.13.11 Join    langhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@dsl-2129326-096.ip.versatel.de)
10.13.50 #       <THE-SA1NT> Oooo...  Cool. My Blind Guardian tickets came today!  :D
10.19.56 #       <langhaarrocker> THE-SA1NT So you don't have the usb stuff more than once in your hardware tab?
10.19.57 Quit    Zagor (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10.20.11 #       <THE-SA1NT> langhaarrocker: Nope.
10.20.22 Join    Zagor [242] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
10.20.36 #       <Zagor> boo
10.20.50 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: like a phoenix.
10.22.22 #       <langhaarrocker> THE-SA1NT After deleting the devices I reboot and Win2k informs me happliy it found all those tree usb Controller / hub devices.
10.22.34 #       <THE-SA1NT> Jeez.
10.22.43 #       <THE-SA1NT> Your box has a hardon for triplets.
10.24.05 #       <langhaarrocker> Where was it that I find the isd200 drivers?
10.26.59 #       <Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/isd200/
10.27.38 #       <Bagder> bbl
10.27.40 Quit    Bagder ("http://daniel.haxx.se")
10.32.29 #       <PsycoXul> hmm what was with that old feature request getting a mailing out?
10.32.38 Join    vekar [0] (~Vincent@ppp-isdn-386.ath.forthnet.gr)
10.32.51 Nick    vekar is now known as kargatron (~Vincent@ppp-isdn-386.ath.forthnet.gr)
10.33.06 #       <Zagor> PsycoXul: kargatron is our new request janitor :-)
10.33.14 #       <PsycoXul> heh i've had a hacked mpeg.c for a while now that turned the line-in on along with the mp3-output on init... it works quite well 
10.33.17 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
10.33.56 #       <PsycoXul> Zagor: so what'd he do to it? i didn't see anything new of notice in the mail
10.34.26 #       <Zagor> the changes have a > first in the line. the last changes got new categories.
10.34.43 #       <PsycoXul> ah
10.34.53 #       <kargatron> question about recent request mods?
10.36.00 #       <kargatron> i'd still like to see some list discussion on good categories - daniel added some obvious ones, but plainly lumping the rest all  under 'interface improvements' is not so useful
10.43.14 #       <Zagor> i think new categories will transpire
10.44.25 #       <kargatron> undoubtedly, just urging people to think about it...
10.56.44 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11.01.43 #       <Zagor> "It is often preferable to simply backup you Exchange Server Data and reinstall, instead of trying to find the one hidden setting that is causing the error in your configuration." -- MS Exchange Manual
11.01.48 #       <Zagor> gotta love it
11.22.59 Join    TotMacher [0] (tot@ip67.rsidus.riege.de)
11.31.03 #       <Zagor> kargatron: UI improvements could maybe be split into wps, browser and other
11.31.46 #       <kargatron> one definitely needed, i think, is 'new functionality' or equiv
11.32.10 #       <kargatron> was thinking wps went into configuration, but easy enough to split out
11.33.27 #       <kargatron> hm, not new functions, maybe 'misc functions', since some might be on extant functions
11.38.50 #       <langhaarrocker> Where would a split editor fit in?
11.39.52 #       <kargatron> you mean category-wise?  'misc functions' sounds good to me. :)  Or recording, if this was about recording?
11.40.21 #       <kargatron> surely a generic mp3 editor would not be considered for the jukebox. :)
11.40.27 #       <Schnueff> maybe a category 'applications'
11.40.35 #       <kargatron> sure
11.41.41 #       <kargatron> what's the basis of the cat 'hardware mods' - meaning rockbox accommodating specific mods?
11.42.12 #       <Zagor> no, it means requests that cannot be implemented in software alone
11.42.20 #       <Zagor> thus requiring hardware modifications
11.42.53 #       <kargatron> but the rockbox team would never be involved with hardware mods, right?
11.43.01 #       <kargatron> or is that just a catch-all for auto-rejection? :)
11.44.01 #       <kargatron> ok, enough cat-changing for today
11.44.05 #       <Zagor> :)
11.44.19 #       <Zagor> no we won't do hardware mods as part of the project.
11.44.26 #       <Zagor> we may do it for personal fun though
11.44.50 #       <Zagor> the debug serial port is an exception. that's part of the project.
11.50.42 #       <langhaarrocker> So assume I wrote code that reads out a digicam via the serial part it wouldn't become part of rockbox? Not even as complie time option?
11.51.25 #       <Zagor> i would suggest that to be a separate application, written using the firmware module of rockbox
11.52.24 #       <kargatron> Zagor, some request policy qstns:
11.52.44 #       <kargatron> should summary/titles be kep original, or modified to be clearer, if reasonable?
11.52.54 #       <Zagor> modified
11.53.11 #       <kargatron> if there are duplicates, should the earliest one be chosen as primary, or simply the best stated of the group?
11.53.57 #       <Zagor> it depends. keep the earliest, unless another has more valuable information attached to it
11.54.36 #       <kargatron> and change earliest summary to best statement of issue
11.54.47 #       <Zagor> yes
11.54.49 #       <kargatron> keep dupes open, right?
11.54.59 #       <kargatron> close only happens upon release?
11.55.13 #       <Zagor> no, duplicates can be closed. they serve no useful purpose.
11.55.29 #       <kargatron> ok
11.55.38 #       <Zagor> the purpose of having fixed items open is to illustrate the difference between the last official release and the daily build
11.55.53 #       <kargatron> ah, right
12.04.15 Nick    matsl is now known as matsl|lunch (~matsl@dhcp102.contactor.se)
12.06.31 Quit    kargatron ("Suckers!")
12.16.24 Join    Triple-z [0] (~Mp3@212.116.168.49.knet.co.il)
12.19.06 #       <Triple-z> hi
12.19.13 #       <LinusN> hi
12.19.56 Quit    THE-SA1NT ("THE-SA1NT -- Americas Most Unwanted Eligble Bachelor")
12.25.07 Nick    LinusN is now known as LinusN|lunch (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
12.29.05 #       <Triple-z> any news with the queue?
12.29.44 Join    williams [0] (~silverbox@62.154.167.130)
12.29.49 #       <williams> hi all!
12.30.16 #       <williams> no sugar added?!
12.36.09 #       <Triple-z> nope
12.41.11 #       <williams> what about cream?
12.42.42 Nick    matsl|lunch is now known as matsl (~matsl@dhcp102.contactor.se)
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13.02.12 Nick    LinusN|lunch is now known as LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
13.07.41 #       <Zagor> cream is good
13.10.00 #       <Zagor> i thought bagder said the compile status table would collapse
13.10.16 Part    LinusN
13.11.41 Join    kargatron [0] (~Vincent@ppp-isdn-982.ath.forthnet.gr)
13.12.12 #       <kargatron> Zagor, bookmarking tracks vs playlists - separate requests?  or combine them?
13.12.42 #       <kargatron> i figure the implementation must be at least a little different
13.12.42 #       <Zagor> i'm not sure about the details. what are they really requesting?
13.13.05 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
13.13.05 #       <kargatron> remembering place in a given playlist, or a given track
13.13.12 #       <kargatron> multiple bookmarks
13.13.29 #       <kargatron> or rather, multiple playlists/files
13.13.35 #       <kargatron> not multiple within one item
13.13.38 #       <Zagor> ok. bookmark-in-file is not the same request as bookmark-in-list
13.13.47 #       <kargatron> that's what i figured, just checking
13.17.19 Part    LinusN
13.17.32 #       <williams> zagor: sorry 'bout yesterday, i was tired and fallen to sleep X-)
13.19.41 #       <Zagor> no problem
13.22.19 #       <williams> are you busy?
13.22.50 #       <Zagor> not terribly
13.22.59 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
13.23.01 #       <williams> lol
13.23.05 #       <LinusN> damn tunnel
13.24.13 #       <williams> zag: where did i leave yesterday? discussing the pitch steps and the slow down speed up thoughts?
13.24.40 #       <Zagor> yeah, we were talking about having buttons that speed up/slow down 2% while you press them
13.25.14 #       <langhaarrocker> I had a short glance at the viewer code yesterday. To me it seems that implementing a word-wrap on that base would be a near rewrite.
13.26.35 #       <Zagor> ok
13.27.10 #       <williams> zag: but it won't be possible to hear the signal while pressing, am i right?
13.27.25 #       <Zagor> oh, you will
13.28.18 Join    Bagder [241] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
13.28.23 #       <Bagder> reeeeed
13.28.30 #       <williams> wohaa!
13.28.35 #       <Zagor> Bagder: yeah, very
13.28.36 #       <LinusN> Bagder: go away!
13.29.00 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13.29.00 #       * Bagder hides from the evil dr Linus
13.29.22 #       <Bagder> you guys know anything about AC97?
13.29.25 #       <LinusN> Bagder: we might want to get rid of the P-old columns
13.29.34 #       <Bagder> they will dissappear
13.29.34 #       <LinusN> Bagder: sound?
13.29.45 #       <Bagder> LinusN: a sound codec, yes
13.29.51 #       <LinusN> Bagder: when will they disappear?
13.30.02 #       <LinusN> i don't know anything about ac97
13.30.05 #       <Bagder> when the player-old stuff is not left in the build logs anymore
13.30.16 #       <LinusN> the table is epmty
13.30.19 #       <Bagder> yes
13.30.29 #       <williams> i scrolled through a few more logs yesterday and found your thoughts about the possibility to have something like a pitch-wps so that it can be handled with one hand (not the on + up and down solution). i think it's a good idea
13.30.31 #       <Bagder> but only the 20 newest entries are shown
13.30.37 #       <Bagder> the code deals with all the logs present
13.30.38 #       <williams> linus: what info do you need?
13.30.47 #       <LinusN> Bagder: and when do those logs disappear
13.31.13 #       <Bagder> LinusN: they're removed in the same pace as the daily builds, I think they live for 6-7 days or so
13.31.15 #       <LinusN> williams: what ifo?
13.31.23 #       <LinusN> Bagder: ok
13.31.51 #       <Zagor> Bagder: it's a base-level soundchip interface, IIRC
13.32.07 #       <Bagder> ok
13.32.08 #       <LinusN> Bagder: what do you want to know?
13.32.10 #       <williams> linus: sorry, missread you, should be addresse to bagder
13.32.42 #       <williams> (need one more coffee)
13.33.03 #       <Bagder> in my project we're gonna use a PXA250, and we want support for streaming sound. The PDX250 is an Intel ARM thing with AC97 support
13.33.34 #       <LinusN> Bagder: sign an NDA and purchase a $10000 developers kit :-)
13.33.48 #       <Bagder> I guess they'd like that ;-)
13.34.11 #       <Bagder> I think Zagor summarized it well
13.34.39 #       <Bagder> I'll need to put together a test app anyway
13.34.44 #       <LinusN> Bagder: there are AC97 Linux drivers to look at afaik
13.35.49 #       <Bagder> I wonder if using speex is feasable ;-)
13.36.22 #       <Zagor> what's that?
13.36.30 #       <Bagder> open-source, patent-free voice codec
13.36.33 #       <Bagder> from xiph
13.37.26 #       <Zagor> ah, nice
13.37.48 #       <Bagder> the sound we need is only for voice
13.38.35 #       <LinusN> Don't you just love this kind of code:
13.38.37 #       <LinusN>     // this returns the MPEG version [1.0-2.5]
13.38.37 #       <LinusN>     float getVersion();
13.38.46 #       <Bagder> hahaha
13.38.54 #       <Bagder> lovely
13.39.20 #       <Bagder> hm, I better fix some lunch
13.39.40 #       <langhaarrocker> Bagder: lousy cook?
13.39.48 #       <Bagder> btw, I got konq-e run on qt/e on my linux fb now, really neat
13.40.02 #       <Bagder> langhaarrocker: make that lazy cook ;-)
13.40.41 #       <langhaarrocker> what's that qt/e? Lately I see that frequently here. 
13.40.48 #       <LinusN> QT embedded
13.41.00 #       <langhaarrocker> What's QT?
13.41.01 #       <Bagder> runt qt stuff directly on the linux framebuffer
13.41.08 #       <Bagder> QT is a gui toolkit
13.41.27 #       <langhaarrocker> Ah. So it's about the simulator gui?
13.41.40 #       <Bagder> no, its totally off-topic ;-)
13.42.36 #       <langhaarrocker> :) Made me feel a bit stupid...
13.42.46 #       <williams> langhaarrocker: where from germany are you?
13.42.55 #       <langhaarrocker> Dortmund
13.43.17 #       <kargatron> well, there's a total of 7 requests for queueing
13.43.24 #       <langhaarrocker> Any head hunters listening?:)
13.43.29 #       <Bagder> matsl: you are aware that you caused the red build, right?
13.43.45 #       <kargatron> after marking duplicates, may I up the priority of the primary, if only to bring attention to future potential dupers?
13.44.18 #       <Bagder> I think you should
13.44.31 Part    LinusN
13.44.34 #       <Bagder> now, I'll go eat
13.44.35 #       <williams> langhaarrocker: sorry, no i'm not hunting :-) but i'm not far away from you. i live in krefeld
13.44.36 #       <kargatron> 7, 8, 9?
13.44.49 Quit    Bagder ("http://daniel.haxx.se")
13.44.55 #       <Zagor> kargatron: not too much
13.45.13 #       <kargatron> 7 then?  it's at least distinctly redder
13.45.46 #       <kargatron> not my decision, since i'm not coding, you can decide. :)
13.46.56 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
13.47.17 #       <langhaarrocker> LinuN: tunelled again?
13.47.23 #       <LinusN> yup
13.47.29 #       <LinusN> shaky firewall
13.50.17 #       <kargatron> oh, darn, i was hoping you were talking about a wireless net connection on the road.  Was going to be impressed!
13.50.59 #       <langhaarrocker> Some tunnels have firewalls as hardware :)
13.53.57 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: When the wether is fine and the wind is from southwest on a weekend you might find me even closer to Krefeld. Then I might be paragliding on Halde Nord near Moers.
13.57.05 #       <williams> ok, that's only a "stone-throw" away :-)
13.57.46 #       <williams> xtreme offtopic but paragliding sounds like a very cool thing to forget computer from time to time
13.58.43 #       <LinusN> forget the computer? why? :-)
13.59.02 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: Yes. Next year I might buy some navigation computer for paragliders ...
13.59.44 #       <langhaarrocker> unless we have gps support for rockbox until then.
13.59.50 #       <williams> lol
14.00.19 #       <Schnueff> if u play too much worms while paragliding u might crash
14.00.22 #       <Schnueff> :)
14.00.51 #       <LinusN> bug #86473: Crashed while playing Worms
14.00.54 #       <williams> put usb-master functionality into a palm and connect it to a rockbox, than you have hd-space and a big screen :)
14.00.55 #       <langhaarrocker> argh! :)
14.01.14 #       <Zagor> williams: ok, how about this: ON+RIGHT sets pitch to +2% (from whatever is current), releasing it returns to whatever was before. ON+LEFT does the same, but -2%
14.01.35 #       <williams> sounds practical to me
14.01.43 #       <Zagor> ok, committing
14.02.07 #       <LinusN> williams: i thought you wanted 0.1% steps, why 2%?
14.02.17 #       <williams> depends on a test, but i think it makes sence to make the 2% configurable
14.02.35 #       <Zagor> LinusN: i changed to 0.1% steps too. this is a different feature.
14.03.00 #       <williams> linus: like the pitchable cd players we need a way to bend the pitch as an opposite to the pause-feature to achieve accurate sync
14.03.09 #       <Zagor> UP/DOWN changes 0.1% steps. LEFT/RIGHT is used to beatsync and is therefore using a temporary bigger pitch
14.03.10 #       <williams> got the point?
14.03.18 #       <LinusN> i got it
14.03.32 #       <LinusN> too bad we can't get rid of the clicks...
14.03.39 #       <williams> that's right
14.04.05 #       <williams> but nevertheless i'm very flashed about your work so far!
14.04.24 #       <LinusN> thanks
14.04.41 #       <williams> what about a pitch-wps with one-hand functionality?
14.04.50 #       <Triple-z> what headphone you use with the AJB?
14.05.02 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: any...
14.05.02 #       <Zagor> williams: will do that later
14.05.27 #       <williams> triple: sennheiser mx500
14.05.31 #       <williams> zag: very nice
14.05.32 #       <Zagor> williams: this was a very simple addition, the one-handed is a slightly bigger job affecting other parts
14.05.41 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: Sony EX-70
14.06.23 #       <williams> linus: are those the in ear monitoring type headphones with the rubber earplugs?
14.06.27 #       <Triple-z> vivianco is ok?
14.06.32 #       <williams> ehm
14.06.39 #       <LinusN> williams: earbuds, yes
14.06.43 #       <Zagor> williams: yeah. they are awesome.
14.06.45 #       <williams> zagor: thought so
14.06.46 #       <kargatron> those are on my buy list, but let me ask - is external sound masked much?
14.06.52 #       <Zagor> LinusN: they are not normal earbuds
14.06.57 #       <kargatron> i.e. good for planes, bad for the street?
14.06.57 #       <LinusN> Zagor: the wps stops updating if you hold F1
14.07.06 #       <langhaarrocker> Has anybody found a good use for those headphones that were shipped with the archos?
14.07.08 #       <williams> these ones have VERY good bass
14.07.10 #       <kargatron> (dangerous for the street, i mean)
14.07.10 #       <LinusN> Zagor: true
14.07.30 #       <Zagor> kargatron: pretty much, yeah. but not so much that it's dangerous in traffic.
14.07.34 #       <LinusN> langhaarrocker: hand to hand combat?
14.07.42 #       <Zagor> or maybe just a little :-)
14.07.56 #       <williams> but i feel a bit seperated while wearing them because the sound isn't open to sounds "outside"
14.08.27 #       <kargatron> i've read the sennhesier mx500 are good 'open' earphones  (in-ear)
14.08.37 #       <Zagor> williams: i like that. it means i can use lower volume on the music, with maintained signal/noise level.
14.08.37 #       <kargatron> haven't tried tho
14.08.41 #       <langhaarrocker> kartagon: on street I don't recommend the ex70 I use Sony E868. They're much better for that purpose
14.09.15 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: may I ask why?
14.09.35 #       <Zagor> it's not like you hear a lot of the world sitting in a car either...
14.10.06 #       <langhaarrocker> because you don't have all the banging noise from the cables and it doesn't sound like a jurassic park stompede when walking.
14.10.18 #       <Zagor> lol
14.10.49 #       <williams> zagor: my musician colleague uses them and he liked them a lot until he went snowboarding and he said you can'T use them while snowbaording because you feel too unsecure not hearing the outside
14.11.02 #       <langhaarrocker> But for travelling in train I don't watn to miss my ex 70!
14.11.13 #       <williams> the sennheiser are cheaper (half the price?) and have good bass response too
14.11.46 #       <langhaarrocker> willims: the ex 70 is nearly perfect as an expensive in-ear monitoring system for musicians.
14.11.57 #       <langhaarrocker> inexpensive
14.12.49 #       <williams> right, that's why i tried it for djing. normally you turn your headphones louder than the inside of the club, that's ear-killing. i tried djing with in ear monitoring so that you don't have to monitor as loud
14.13.22 #       <williams> but for that they could be even more "closed" to the outside
14.13.35 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: for that purpose the ex 70 should be a really good choice
14.15.05 #       <langhaarrocker> When doing recording sessions I use the ex 70 and wear big ear protectors.
14.16.41 #       <langhaarrocker> That way I can find the "sweet spots" of an guitar amp at volume 11.
14.17.17 #       <williams> what i tried to is using conventional dj-headphones with musicsafe 2 plugs to protect my ears. it works as these plugs filter all frequencies more equally than "oropax" http://www.sonicshop.de/De/Plugs/MusicSafe_II.htm
14.17.23 #       <williams> yes, marshall roxx :)
14.17.37 #       <williams> i still have my pink punk-guitar :)
14.17.51 #       <Triple-z> http://bluetin.com/audiophones/ear/ex70.htm they looks good
14.18.23 #       <Triple-z> price?
14.18.30 #       <williams> yes, these are the ones my friend is using
14.18.45 #       <williams> 60euro or something like that?
14.18.59 #       <Zagor> something like that
14.19.24 #       <kargatron> can use pricescan for those
14.19.31 #       <kargatron> depends on where you want them shipped, etc
14.19.37 #       <Triple-z> i need to visit sony store
14.20.16 #       <williams> but you can spend a lot more if you want: http://www.hearsafe.de/englisch/mainE00.htm
14.21.46 #       <Triple-z> http://www.vivanco.com/images/products/EAN4008928/4008928080193_p01.jpg hows those?
14.22.06 #       <Triple-z> it got some extra bass groove
14.22.07 Part    LinusN
14.22.21 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
14.22.24 #       <langhaarrocker> At the end of the tunnel is a linusN
14.22.37 #       <Zagor> uh, looks like a cheap gimmick. spend the money on good phones instead of a "bass vibrator"
14.23.04 #       <Triple-z> ehe
14.23.10 #       <Triple-z> heh that is
14.23.31 #       <Triple-z> http://bluetin.com/audiophones/ear/nc11.htm looks great
14.23.59 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: btw as ear protection I use Elacin 25.
14.25.14 #       <Triple-z> anyone saw the new Jukebox FM Recorder 20 ?
14.25.20 #       <Triple-z> nice design
14.25.43 #       <williams> langhaarrocker: and what are your experiences?
14.25.56 #       <langhaarrocker> They're very expensive.
14.26.37 #       <williams> that's why i first tried the musicsafe ones
14.26.56 #       <williams> i didn't want to spend this amount of money to test if it's possible to deejay with it
14.27.45 #       <williams> but i have a tinnitus for a year now (a very low one, but since i master tracks and such things you'll get worried...)
14.28.00 #       <Triple-z> the sony ex70 got good bass?
14.28.19 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: What I don't like about them is that you get the jurassic park stompede effect with them, too. Annoying on gigs
14.28.32 #       <langhaarrocker> Triple-z: That's what they're for!
14.28.58 #       <Triple-z> great
14.30.02 #       <williams> langhaarrocker: really? i don't have this effect with the musicsafes!
14.30.12 #       <Triple-z> i dont think they got it hear in israel tho
14.30.22 #       <langhaarrocker> The combination of the jukebox with the ex70 is not so perfect because the ex70 don't need much volume. Thus you tend to turn down the volume. And then you have a lousy s/n ratio because of this crappy jukebox.
14.30.31 #       <williams> to be honest, after 30 minutes i won't notice them
14.30.33 #       <Triple-z> here
14.32.26 #       <Triple-z> ex70 is like 30GBP
14.32.55 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: the wearing comfort of the ER 25 is perfect. But I can't compare it to anything but those little yellow foam thingies.
14.32.57 #       <Zagor> williams: you can download the bleeding edge build and try the new pitch if you want
14.33.39 #       <williams> weehaa!
14.33.49 #       <Triple-z> http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=26&productID=0020100000 Etymotic ER-4S
14.34.02 #       <Triple-z> so expencive
14.34.13 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: so lousy
14.34.44 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: you compared them to the ex 70?
14.34.49 #       <Zagor> yup
14.35.09 #       <Triple-z> they got great reviews
14.35.15 #       <Zagor> and to the Sony V700, and 888's and...
14.35.27 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: of course. they are expensive.
14.35.42 #       <Triple-z> zagor: what your usein?
14.35.45 #       <Zagor> many people are too proud to admit they spent a lot of cash on something bad
14.35.47 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: ex70
14.38.18 #       <Zagor> the etymotics have no bass
14.38.20 #       <Triple-z> you all use in-ear type?
14.38.26 #       <williams> zagor: bingo! works!
14.38.54 #       <Zagor> williams: of course. :-) but is it good?
14.39.23 #       <Zagor> oh, i forgot to change the screen info
14.39.35 #       * Zagor runs out to fetch a lunch salad
14.39.45 #       <williams> i'm in the office and i can't start to mix here with two devices and a mixer, so the final test has to be done, but i can hear that it does it correctly. 
14.40.31 #       <williams> bon appetit
14.40.40 #       <Triple-z> well i must replace my sony mdr-w80, i hope to find the ex70
14.40.59 #       <williams> let's talk about trackmarks when you're back, there's an open question i hav ein mind....
14.41.05 #       <Triple-z> hows koss portapro?
14.43.46 #       <williams> don't know this one
14.44.14 #       <langhaarrocker> Triple-z: I don't know them. But when going for the ex 70 consider that they sound fine but you will have more noise that comes from banging cables, and stomping around. Put your fingers in your ears and walk around to get an impression of what I mean.
14.46.25 #       <kargatron> langhaarrocker, what if you surgically attach cables to neck and ear?  maybe not so bad then? :)
14.46.39 #       <Triple-z> so whats your recommending?
14.46.45 #       <Triple-z> what
14.47.39 #       <langhaarrocker> kargatron: I actually have a crocodile clamp at the earphones I use on the street to fix the cable to my cloths.
14.49.13 #       <langhaarrocker> Triple-z: Get two pairs of earphones: the ex 70 when sitting around and moving little and something else for offroad use. I like the E868 for that purpose.
14.50.30 #       <Zagor> i'm not bother too much about the cable noise. i use my ex70s always
14.50.55 #       <williams> anyone experiences with portable microphone preamps (not in the 200$ range) ?
14.51.05 #       <langhaarrocker> I build my own one.
14.51.16 #       <williams> powered by what?
14.51.20 #       <Zagor> williams: apparently archos makes one, but doesn't sell it in the US...
14.51.43 #       <Triple-z> how you carry the jukebox? with the original bag?
14.53.03 #       <Zagor> i only use the bag for transportation. i keep the archos in a jacket pocket or bag when I use it
14.53.23 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: not powered by batteries. I use it for recording gigs -> power available.
14.53.23 #       <williams> who needs the states?!
14.53.27 #       <williams> :)
14.53.39 #       <langhaarrocker> Sadam?
14.53.48 #       <williams> rocker: that's the problem, i would like to have a portable one...
14.53.51 #       <williams> loool@rocker
14.54.44 #       <williams> i like the modification that uses the digital port jack as mic in and using the internal preamp
14.55.08 #       <williams> but i have to return my recorder in near future because of a hardwareproblem it has
14.55.36 #       <williams> it's my second one and i hate the time without it. that's why i did'nt returend it so far
14.56.50 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14.58.50 #       <langhaarrocker> I always wanted to buy the DENECKE AD-20/ZEFIRO INBOX. But it's so expensive and a bit too bulky for that price.
14.59.12 #       <williams> btw: ever heard of that? my jukebox only starts after the second or first try. it not depends on how long i hold the on button, in most cases the first time i try to start it the green led will light up but the screen remains dark and it stays in this state. then i can press off, then hold "on" again and it will boot properly
14.59.19 #       <Triple-z> Sony's SRS-T77 Personal Travel Speakers http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9687x9793x8741&catid=&itemid=8902
14.59.20 #       <Triple-z> cool
14.59.28 #       <williams> oh, don't know that denecke *googling*
15.00.00 #       <langhaarrocker> http://www.core-sound.com/inbox.html
15.00.04 #       <Zagor> here's the mic/preamp from archos: http://www.hotmp3gear.com/Microphone.htm
15.00.36 Part    LinusN
15.01.28 #       <langhaarrocker> Honestly I don't really trust in a preamp / mic combo for $49. But who knows.
15.02.55 #       <williams> nobody here who tried it?
15.03.19 #       <Zagor> not here, but several people in the yahoo archos forum says it's good
15.03.36 #       <williams> what kind of people are there?
15.03.48 #       <Triple-z> whats the yahoo archos forum url?
15.03.50 #       <Zagor> heh, i don't know.
15.04.01 #       <williams> quesiton in mind: do they have ears :)
15.04.14 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: not all of them.
15.04.26 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000/
15.04.41 #       <Triple-z> its for the recorder also?
15.04.49 #       <Zagor> yup
15.05.05 #       <williams> rocker: the denecke -  found it a few weeks ago at soundprofessionals. seems to be a professional solution :)
15.05.27 #       <langhaarrocker> for professional price
15.05.33 #       <williams> unfortunally
15.05.51 #       <williams> as expensice as the box itself :)
15.05.59 #       <langhaarrocker> and bigger, too.
15.06.23 #       <langhaarrocker> That spoils all the fun about a portable recording solution.
15.06.23 #       <williams> zag: you said something yesterday about looping and trackmarks? rocker is doing that?
15.06.32 #       <williams> right :-(
15.06.47 #       <williams> what about the fancy microphones with digital output?
15.06.59 #       <langhaarrocker> I have made a split editor that can loop a little. But it's not finished yet.
15.07.29 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: I don't know any. links?
15.07.59 #       <williams> i think sony builds one
15.08.07 #       <Triple-z> neo mini jukebox got nice design
15.08.10 #       <williams> i'll look after it
15.09.32 #       <williams> rocker: why i ask this loop thing: last feature to make a little mixmachine out of the rb would be the possibility to search the first bassdrumm in a track and mark it, so that you can start it. like with vinyl, you "scratch" to the first beat and there you start to mix it in
15.10.40 #       <Triple-z> you guys hear house/trance music?
15.10.42 #       <langhaarrocker> My split editor features a oscillosgramme on which it's a piece of cake to identify the bass umph visually. I think I'll expand it for other purposes (yours included), too. I
15.10.56 #       <williams> triple: i produce and spin funky housetracks
15.10.58 #       <langhaarrocker> I'll need a second marker to mark start and end point.
15.11.25 #       <williams> rocker: based on the frequency analysis in the mp3 frames?
15.11.41 #       <williams> or do you fft things in the box?!
15.11.45 #       <langhaarrocker> no, based on the volume info from the MAS
15.11.51 #       <williams> simple peak
15.11.58 #       <langhaarrocker> yes
15.12.35 #       <langhaarrocker> I can send you a build if you want.
15.13.13 #       <williams> ab dafür, bin schon ganz feucht :)
15.13.39 #       <williams> dom.williams@bunkohr.de if dcc won't work
15.13.45 #       <Triple-z> is there a scrolling text but like the style that on the original archos frimware? (i mean that its scroll till the end of the text and goes back)
15.14.58 #       <kargatron> not currently (to my knowledge)
15.14.59 #       <williams> rocker: do you think it's possible to save trackmark infos for each mp3? 
15.15.31 #       <langhaarrocker> that's not my task. But there was someone who wanted to make cue sheets. 
15.15.35 #       <kargatron> is 'trackmark' a bookmark?  or some cue sheet thing?
15.15.37 #       <kargatron> ah
15.16.03 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: there is a patch submitted that does that
15.16.36 #       <williams> rocker: sounds perfect
15.16.36 #       <matsl> Zagor: Arghhh. I seem to have broken the w32-build.
15.16.49 #       <Triple-z> whats the patch name?
15.16.58 #       <Zagor> matsl: boo
15.17.17 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: "Bidi. scrolling with short strings"
15.17.19 #       <Triple-z> its not in the last built?
15.17.21 #       <adiamas> Zagor.. who's doing all the work with the feature requests?
15.17.26 #       <Zagor> adiamas: kargatron
15.17.39 #       * adiamas taps kargatron on the shoulder
15.17.45 #       <Zagor> he's our new request janitor :-)
15.18.05 #       <adiamas> nods
15.18.13 #       <adiamas> we need to pull him back a bit :)
15.18.32 #       <matsl> Zagor: Its not easy to test with no environment. Who is maintaining the w32 build?
15.19.00 #       <Zagor> matsl: nobody :-) edx comes in and fixes a few things now and then, but that's all
15.19.16 #       <Zagor> adiamas: is there a problem (other than drowning in sf mails)
15.19.36 #       * adiamas nods
15.19.48 #       <adiamas> multiple same comment posts on features
15.20.02 #       <adiamas> listing features as duplicates where they aren't
15.20.08 #       <kargatron> here now
15.20.12 #       <matsl> Zagor: OK. I can try to add what I think is missing and watch for how the light may change on the web.
15.20.12 #       <adiamas> waves
15.20.14 #       <kargatron> which?
15.20.20 #       <adiamas> kar.. give me a sec.. ill get the url
15.20.53 #       <kargatron> IDs are fine too
15.21.10 #       <adiamas> other thing..
15.21.22 #       <adiamas> a 'duplicate' is not a duplicate if it was the first one posted
15.21.28 #       <adiamas> its only the following that are duplicates ;)
15.21.48 #       <kargatron> yes, but i exercised judgment about which ones held the most info.
15.21.57 #       <adiamas> nods
15.22.03 #       <adiamas> i know.. im just being anal :)
15.22.13 #       <kargatron> i.e. i didn't think preserving the earliest was necessarily worth moving info from one to another
15.22.19 #       <Zagor> adiamas: i decided that it was ok to kill the first if subsequent had more useful information
15.22.59 #       <kargatron> unimplemented requests aren't all that time-sensitive. :)
15.24.12 #       <kargatron> still, if there are items wrongly marked dupes, lemme know.  It's possible I misunderstood a request I thought was noted elsewhere..
15.24.49 #       <Triple-z> zagor: where i can find the bidi patch?
15.26.21 #       <Zagor> Triple-z: click on "patches" in the left-side menu on the rockbox site
15.27.14 #       <kargatron> crap.  this sourceforge interface is nasty about using the back button. :(
15.27.20 #       <kargatron> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=562147&group_id=44306&atid=439121
15.27.23 #       <Zagor> kargatron: indeed
15.27.25 #       <Triple-z> oh ;)
15.27.38 #       <kargatron> three identical notes from 'refreshed' back usage
15.27.39 #       <Triple-z> i tried to do a search for it
15.27.40 #       <kargatron> dammit
15.28.03 #       <kargatron> didn't realize that was happening.  %$%#@!
15.32.12 #       <Triple-z> well i dont really know how to handle the source code, or add the patch..
15.33.27 #       <langhaarrocker> kargatron: I just got a mail concerning my feature request 551729. Can that be because you marked it for the category recording?
15.36.17 #       <kargatron> is there a '>' marked somewhere?
15.36.31 #       <kargatron> i've been changing categories for lots, and marking dupes too
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15.39.08 #       <kargatron> langhaarrocker, submitters get emails for any changes made
15.39.24 #       <langhaarrocker> That's what I assumed.
15.48.25 #       <williams> rocker: regarding digital mics - http://www.musik-service.de/ProduX/Recording/Mikrofone/Beyerdynamic_MCD100_digitales_Mikrofon.htm and http://www.stagetec.com/stagetec_de/5_jahre_dig_mik.htm
15.49.13 #       <williams> but it's aes/ebu
15.50.17 #       <langhaarrocker> Isn't that the same as spdif but differential and with some bits meaning something irrelevantly different?
15.51.26 #       <williams> don't know the aes/ebu proticol down to the bits
15.52.11 #       <langhaarrocker> I think it should be trivial (a resistor or so) to match aes/ebu for the jukebox.
15.54.26 #       <langhaarrocker> hrgh. I just read the price.
15.54.31 #       <williams> ;-)
15.54.50 #       <williams> i can't find a the sony-thing i have in mind
15.55.07 #       <williams> i could swear they have a small one for minidiscs and dats
15.56.22 #       <langhaarrocker> http://212.250.57.233/pro_runproducts.asp?pid=246&ShowRange=Yes&Percentage=43&New=No&Cat=All+Accessories&subCat=Audio+Microphones&Ire=&CatID=8&sProdName=ECMMS907
15.57.38 #       <williams> why gld plated plugs for digital signals?!
15.57.55 #       <langhaarrocker> why a worm game for the jukebox?
15.58.24 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: why any game?
15.58.49 #       <williams> on the sony.com site there are three "digital mics" but no word about s/p-dif or aes... it seems they're analouge but "good" for digital media as marketing-gag or something like that
15.59.03 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: because the ex 70 has a gold plated plug, too.
15.59.09 #       <williams> yepp, why games, let's make a tracker! 
15.59.26 #       <williams> yes, but it's analouge, so i can see a bit of sense
16.04.39 #       <Bagder> Zagor: me testing new feature request table output
16.05.00 #       <Zagor> goodie. it will be very useful.
16.05.12 #       <Bagder> splitting up on categories
16.06.01 #       <kargatron> if possible, split out None too - that will help with maintenance
16.06.38 #       <Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/features.html
16.06.44 #       <Bagder> test page
16.07.06 #       <Bagder> lots of None
16.07.12 #       <Bagder> but the data is not the latest
16.07.25 #       <Zagor> yikes, are all those open?
16.07.32 #       <Bagder> yes
16.07.36 #       <Zagor> whoa
16.07.38 #       <kargatron> i polished off lots of those nones
16.07.41 #       <kargatron> today
16.07.52 #       <kargatron> tomorrow should be better data set
16.07.56 #       <Bagder> yeps
16.08.10 #       <Zagor> Bagder: a htmldecode on those strings would be a good thing
16.08.19 #       <Bagder> oh, right
16.08.23 #       <langhaarrocker> seems rockbox lags behind the dreams...
16.08.35 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: :)
16.09.41 #       <Zagor> Bagder: only the top table has a class, the rest have class=""
16.09.49 #       <Bagder> ok
16.10.00 Quit    mecraw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16.10.07 #       <Zagor> the none table has class="fixed" for some reason
16.10.25 #       <langhaarrocker> Here another inofficial feature request: if it is trivial to do please include a feature request counter per category.
16.11.13 #       <Bagder> I can do that on this page
16.11.42 #       <langhaarrocker> ... and then have a diagram on that statistic info.
16.12.27 #       <kargatron> the diagram is turning your head sideways and quickly sliding the scrollbar back and forth
16.12.44 #       * langhaarrocker is being sick
16.16.42 #       <Bagder> Zagor: want me to replace the h2 with some class instead?
16.16.58 Nick    elinenbe is now known as elinenbe|what (~elinenbe@user-0cces0l.cable.mindspring.com)
16.17.23 #       <Zagor> nah, h2 is good. you can add a class to it though, in case we want to tweak it
16.19.01 #       <Bagder> updated the data now
16.19.04 #       <Bagder> only 16 None left
16.19.17 #       <Bagder> down on 119 requests now ;-)
16.19.45 #       <kargatron> i left some of those none deliberately - not fitting well with current cats
16.19.54 #       <kargatron> might want to use those to mull other cats
16.20.03 #       <kargatron> 'Applications' was one suggestion
16.20.28 #       <elinenbe|what> My request is to get rid off all current requests
16.20.48 #       <kargatron> the easy way or hard way? :)
16.21.50 #       <Bagder> hahaha
16.22.54 #       <elinenbe|what> there should be a script that adds the email of anyone who makes a request to 100's of spam lists :)
16.23.08 #       <matsl> Zagor: All green now ;-)
16.23.37 #       <Bagder> good job mats
16.23.40 #       <Zagor> ah, good
16.24.04 #       <Bagder> Zagor: so, I replace the former list with this unless you object
16.24.12 #       <Zagor> Bagder: go ahead
16.24.45 #       <Bagder> done
16.25.42 #       <Bagder> I added <a name> tags too in case we ever wanna link to a category
16.26.09 #       <Zagor> good
16.26.09 #       <matsl> kjerand I have been doing some good pare programming today. major changes to the font handling in the player simulator is planned! Might even include special chars in the target as well.
16.26.47 #       <Zagor> matsl: sounds good!
16.27.00 #       <matsl> Jupp. pare programming is fun!
16.27.10 #       <Bagder> pair
16.27.11 #       <Bagder> ;-)
16.27.16 #       <matsl> Right!
16.27.24 #       <Zagor> kargatron: excellent work with the request. we who are about to code salute you!
16.27.32 #       <Bagder> or pear ;-)
16.27.42 #       <matsl> Another reason for using emacs for IRC. Spell!
16.27.47 #       <Bagder> hehe
16.28.14 #       <matsl> To bad emacs lisp isn't multithreaded yet.
16.28.15 #       <kargatron> glad to help
16.28.27 #       <kargatron> IF it helps get them implemented. :)
16.28.49 Quit    mem ("time to go home, CU!!!")
16.29.08 #       <Bagder> time will tell ;-)
16.30.03 #       <kargatron> my requests from the dev team:
16.30.16 #       <kargatron> 1) category analysis
16.30.26 #       <kargatron> 2) useful priority assignments
16.30.31 #       <kargatron> as convenient
16.32.40 #       <kargatron> actually, i can work on suggestions for (1) as well as anyone, so i will as time permits
16.35.32 #       <matsl> bbl cu
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16.36.08 #       <kargatron> Bagder, amusing that priority=2 is 'insane'.  what's your adjective for priority=1? :)
16.37.08 #       <Bagder> "Show Me The Code" ;-)
16.37.37 #       <Bagder> I just find 1 such an extreme so I save it for something worse
16.37.55 #       <langhaarrocker> which was it?
16.38.04 #       <Bagder> html viewer
16.40.17 #       <langhaarrocker> well the bmp / jpg viewer is needed first...
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16.57.11 #       <elinenbe|what> these .rockbox dir complaints from windows users is getting quite annoying.
16.57.25 #       <elinenbe|what> just tell them to unzip the damn zip to their archos!!!
16.58.14 #       <Zagor> we do. but you know how people are. reading can kill you.
16.59.28 #       <langhaarrocker> There might be a point where renaming .rockbox is less hazzle than coping with all the complaints.
16.59.45 #       <elinenbe|what> I would almost agree to that..
16.59.48 #       * langhaarrocker runs away
16.59.54 #       <williams> why don't they simply use the dos box
17.00.06 #       <elinenbe|what> I can't wait until thing like the sokoban levels are in the .rockbox/sokoban/ dir
17.00.24 #       <elinenbe|what> we should force weird things upon all users :)
17.00.30 #       <elinenbe|what> put all mp3 in .mp3
17.00.32 #       <elinenbe|what> :)
17.00.47 #       <elinenbe|what> put them all in /.mp3
17.00.54 #       <langhaarrocker> we need password locked screensavers
17.01.07 #       <elinenbe|what> does anyone here have a DVD-R burner.
17.01.07 #       <elinenbe|what> ?
17.01.50 #       <elinenbe|what> I am thinking about purchasing one, my friend is selling me a new one for $99.  Should I get it?  DVR-102 2x DVD burner 8x CD burner
17.03.29 #       <kargatron> look at users reports for the model on epinions.com, or places like that
17.03.29 #       <kargatron> cnet, etc
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17.07.24 #       <Namuch> anyone alive here?
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17.08.14 #       <langhaarrocker> glglgl
17.08.14 #       * Zagor waves
17.08.15 #       <williams> split.
17.08.29 #       <langhaarrocker> williams: I told you not to use the mp3 split editor in irc!
17.08.35 #       <williams> rehi
17.08.39 #       <Bagder> we're just splitting a bit ;-)
17.08.53 #       <williams> loooool
17.09.16 #       <Zagor> those split tools are dangerous toys. keep away from children and williams.
17.09.40 #       <williams> sharp toy!
17.09.47 #       <kargatron> just gotta share with Matrix fans: these are bad-ass: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13593
17.11.57 #       <Zagor> kargatron: that top pic looks a bit... hermafrodite? male face, female body
17.12.50 #       <langhaarrocker> acutally I didn't look at the face...
17.12.51 #       <williams> face looks like morpheus :)
17.13.32 #       <kargatron> aayilah's replacement, forget name
17.14.34 #       <Zagor> Jada Pinkett
17.14.40 #       <edx> Zagor: i'm having toruble with the lcd-player.c fuke
17.14.45 #       <edx> s/fuke/file
17.14.52 #       <Zagor> edx: what problems?
17.15.02 #       <edx> linker errors:
17.15.13 #       <edx> in the win32sim:
17.15.13 #       <edx> main.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _lcd_init referenced in fun
17.15.13 #       <edx> ction _init
17.15.44 #       <edx> lcd_init... must be defined by lcd-player.c - the object is there, but the function seems not to be defined - any idea why that could be?
17.15.56 #       <Zagor> edx: ah, sim issues? you should talk to matsl
17.16.15 #       <edx> well he's not in :P
17.16.37 #       <Bagder> lcd-playersim.c
17.17.12 #       <Bagder> I'm not sure I like this new order
17.17.33 #       <Bagder> lcd-playersim.c is basicly the exact same file as lcd-recorder.c
17.17.35 #       <edx> argh!!
17.17.47 #       <edx> damn it.. i opened the wrong file
17.17.48 #       <Zagor> Bagder: !
17.17.52 #       * edx is very tired and stupid
17.18.02 #       <Bagder> I can't see any reason for this
17.18.25 #       <Zagor> holy crap!
17.18.33 #       * Zagor brings out the spankomat
17.19.12 #       <williams> lol. sounds like one of the fuckingmachines.com devices :)
17.20.05 #       * edx fixed the makefile for win32sim
17.20.55 #       <williams> zagor: i will try out the new 2% bend feauture tonight in our club... i think it could work
17.21.28 #       <Zagor> williams: cool. let me know if there's any more tweaks we can do.
17.22.16 #       <edx> the last few days i've written a string class which is faster than the STL's :D
17.22.18 #       <edx> http://codeforce.dyn.ee/projects/cfstring/
17.22.27 #       <williams> i think it would be helpful to be able to customize the pitch step size and the new bend feature size
17.22.31 #       * edx commited the new makefile
17.22.41 #       <williams> should'nt be too hard, or do i miss something?
17.23.11 #       <Zagor> williams: no, it's not hard. we're just trying to keep the number of custom flags/values down.
17.23.16 #       <williams> then all is fine, exept for the lack of saveable cuepoints, but that is another issue i think ;-)
17.24.18 #       <langhaarrocker> I think I should rename the split editor to something else. 
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17.24.38 #       <williams> where is the limit? a memory problem? 
17.24.57 #       <williams> rocker: why, what do you have in mind?
17.25.14 #       <Namuch> anyone know how to troubleshoot build problems with the uisimulator?
17.25.17 #       <langhaarrocker> finding split points and cue points is the same thing
17.25.45 #       <langhaarrocker> Just as finding loop points.
17.26.03 #       <edx> Namuch: what simulator? win or linux?
17.26.05 #       <williams> cue(point) editor
17.26.09 #       <Namuch> linux
17.26.21 #       <edx> then i'm the wrong guy to ask (Bagder?!)
17.26.22 #       <Bagder> Namuch: what's the problem?
17.26.53 #       <Namuch> seems like i'm getting mixups with the sh-elf headers and the regular system/x11 headers
17.27.29 #       <Bagder> what makes you say that?
17.28.00 #       <Namuch> the compiler can't find sys/types.h and it looks like it's pulling in the wrong 'malloc' 'memcpy', etc....
17.28.09 #       <Zagor> tkdiff is pretty neat
17.28.25 #       <merwin|zZzZz> yawn
17.28.31 Nick    merwin|zZzZz is now known as merwin (~none@65.218.154.2)
17.28.31 DBUG    Enqueued KICK merwin
17.29.11 #       <Bagder> Namuch: what gcc version are you using?
17.29.41 #       <Namuch> the recommended version from the rockbox.haxx website..hold on i'll tell you exact...
17.29.58 #       <Namuch> gcc 3.0.4
17.30.14 #       <Bagder> the simulator is for native builds, how can that mix anything wiht the sh-elf ones?
17.30.19 Quit    langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17.30.32 #       <Namuch> that's why i'm confused
17.31.09 #       <Namuch> if i mess with the makefiles and change the header search order, i can get the code to compile
17.31.41 #       <Namuch> but, when all is said is done, i hit a final link problem with x11r6.so
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17.33.58 #       <Bagder> but where did you install the sh include files? how can the normal gcc even find them?
17.35.06 Quit    kargatron ("Suckers!")
17.36.15 #       <Namuch> i followed the build instructions exactly from the website, so i think those went into the sh1/include dir
17.36.23 Quit    williams ("Leaving")
17.36.56 #       <Namuch> i can build the the actual ajbrec.ajz with absolutely no problems whatsoever, it only happens when i try to compile the uisim
17.38.18 #       <Bagder> I think you better gather all details and post to the mailing list
17.38.37 #       <Bagder> building this is normally very east
17.38.39 #       <Bagder> easy
17.39.08 #       <Namuch> that's what i've gathered so far...
17.39.57 #       <Namuch> can you tell me what this ld error means?  /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so : could not read symbols: Invalid Operation
17.42.29 #       <Bagder> no idea
17.42.31 #       <langhaarrocker> is there any way to ask mpeg wether it is paused or playing?
17.42.38 #       <Bagder> langhaarrocker: yes
17.42.47 #       <Namuch> thanks, anyway
17.42.48 #       <Bagder> looking...
17.43.13 #       <edx> is_playing :P
17.43.22 #       <Bagder> langhaarrocker: mpeg_status()
17.43.29 #       <edx> *oops*
17.43.43 #       <edx> isnt there something like is_playing?
17.43.44 #       <Bagder> hehe
17.43.47 #       <Bagder> it used to be
17.43.50 #       <edx> oh
17.43.55 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17.43.55 #       * edx is out-fashioned
17.44.12 #       <langhaarrocker> bagder, you made me happy!
17.44.17 #       * Bagder bows
17.44.25 #       * edx lols
17.44.27 #       <langhaarrocker> (edx: thx for trying)
17.45.03 #       * edx plays the court jester while bagder bows..
17.45.26 #       <langhaarrocker> You have an mp3 of that? :)
18.07.07 #       * Zagor gives adiamas the eye
18.08.04 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: you haven't looked at key schemes, yet, have you?
18.08.19 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: no, i'm afraid not
18.08.36 #       <langhaarrocker> I'll simplify the demo till monday
18.08.55 #       <Zagor> ok, nice
18.09.16 #       <Zagor> i'll be here less next week. need to do some "real" work.
18.10.05 #       <langhaarrocker> -> you won't have time to look at it next week?
18.10.17 #       <Zagor> that's hard to say
18.10.54 #       <langhaarrocker> But you won't be angry if I don't finish the demo for monday?
18.11.01 #       <Zagor> :-) no
18.14.55 #       <langhaarrocker> Maybe we can start sorting out one point anyway right now:
18.14.56 #       <langhaarrocker> I wonder if we should bind key schemes to modules. Example wps uses scheme 1, browser uses scheme 2, menu uses scheme 3...
18.14.56 #       <langhaarrocker> We don't really need that because with each button press we can change the key scheme anyway. Then it wouldn't be the code that selects the scheme, but the scheme itself would change to the next scheme when it calls another module.
18.16.04 #       <Zagor> i'm not entirely clear about what different modules are
18.16.27 #       <langhaarrocker> each program that now has its own button evaluation code can be considered as a module.
18.17.03 #       <Zagor> ok
18.18.09 #       <Zagor> my view is that it's not worth it adding a complex thing like this key scheme system if we still have to keep a lot of the current key code. so i would say your key scheme should replace the module code.
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18.18.34 #       <langhaarrocker> Of course. yes.
18.18.51 #       <Zagor> so, with schemes there are no modules
18.19.04 #       <Zagor> and thus we can't bind schemes to modules
18.19.39 #       <langhaarrocker> I think we still will have modules like the browser, the wps, the menus and so on.
18.19.53 #       <langhaarrocker> These modules offer some actions that can be applied to them.
18.20.01 #       <langhaarrocker> These actions are bound to keys
18.20.06 #       <Zagor> ok
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18.23.09 #       <langhaarrocker> If we now have an action that selects another module we could either let the module itself select its key scheme. But I also made the mechanism that with each action that is performed the key scheme can be changed, too. So the key scheme could specify which key scheme is applied to the called module.
18.26.04 #       <Zagor> take it from the beginning, with real-life examples. what is a module, what functionality does it provide? how does it work together with the scheme?
18.26.37 #       <langhaarrocker> ok. Assume we're in the browser and select a song.
18.27.12 #       <langhaarrocker> in the current key scheme (for the browser) an action is triggered "show me wps".
18.28.05 #       <langhaarrocker> Now another key scheme must be used: the key scheme for the wps.
18.28.30 #       <langhaarrocker> Up to now I have the module wps select it's own key scheme.
18.29.05 #       <Zagor> i think the scheme/config file should specify which scheme to use
18.30.07 #       <langhaarrocker> fine.
18.31.20 #       <langhaarrocker> That leads to the next point: when to change back.
18.31.38 #       <langhaarrocker> Assume the user hits stop and we enter the browser again.
18.32.33 #       <langhaarrocker> The key scheme for wps could specify that we now have use the browser key scheme. The other way would be that we have the old key scheme stored on a stack somewhere.
18.32.59 #       <Zagor> stacks are generally bad
18.33.53 #       <langhaarrocker> As we have figured out we won't be able to avoid stacks completely. 
18.34.25 #       <Zagor> right
18.34.37 #       <langhaarrocker> Imagine we have a module for editing strings. We enter that module from different points -> must return to different points.
18.35.15 #       <langhaarrocker> Of course we could define a new key scheme for each of these entry points that specify all different exit points.
18.35.19 #       <Zagor> yeah
18.35.49 #       <langhaarrocker> With inheritence of the key schemes this wouldn't be too problematic, either.
18.36.24 #       <langhaarrocker> But somehow I don't like this idea.
18.36.45 #       <Zagor> me neither. too complex.
18.36.52 #       <langhaarrocker> That's why I think of storing the key scheme of the caller with the stack.
18.41.02 #       <langhaarrocker> I have a really awful nightmare vision: if the module doesn't select its own key scheme we will come to the point when we have to debug things like using a wrong key scheme on a wrong module. With key schemes inheriting this opens a can of worms without a bottom.
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18.51.05 #       <williams> re
18.51.25 #       <langhaarrocker> Hirsch
18.54.23 #       <langhaarrocker> another question by the way:
18.54.23 #       <langhaarrocker> status.c uses it's own variable to determine wether to show play or pause icon. Shouldn't it better evaluate mpeg_status? 
18.55.01 #       <langhaarrocker> (status.c : line 118)
18.55.42 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: yes and no
18.55.48 #       <Zagor> yes: it would be cleaner
18.56.10 #       <Zagor> no: mpeg.c doesn't know when we are searching in a track. that is wps-internal.
18.56.52 #       <Zagor> so it's a slightly more complex fix
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18.57.45 #       <langhaarrocker> Something like wps tells status.c when to override mpeg_status?
18.58.29 #       <Zagor> umm, maybe. i haven't really looked at it in a while. busy with writing... :-)
18.59.03 #       <langhaarrocker> I think it would be better if status.c asked wps wether to override mpeg_status.
18.59.41 #       <Zagor> no. a) calling back-and-forth quickly becomes spaghetti. b) it would introduce an "override" state in wps
19.01.09 #       <langhaarrocker> So it's a question wether status.c has the override state or wps has it. I think since it's wps who sets the state it should own it.
19.01.54 #       <langhaarrocker> you see: I'm an oop programmer :)
19.02.57 #       <langhaarrocker> But I do see the spaghetti risk
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19.06.26 #       <Zagor> i'm a C programmer: I say take a step back and redesign this part of the code instead of throwing more states at it
19.07.05 #       <Zagor> i don't have the answer in my head right now, though
19.10.39 #       <vici> i don't want to annoy you with stupid questions, but: what di i have to do to compile the code from the daily builds? I installed gnush (windows) and set the classpaths but it doesn't seems to work. (Or doesn't it work at all on winxp?)
19.11.31 #       <langhaarrocker> I can only recoomend using cygwin because it has perl and shells and all the scripts work with it.
19.11.47 #       <Zagor> vici: have you read this? http://rockbox.haxx.se/sh-win/
19.12.30 #       <Zagor> yeah, cygwin is probably the best way.
19.14.16 #       <vici> what is cygwin? or where do i get it from? (btw the page didn't help me, already read it) you see it would be the first time i do smth in c...
19.14.41 #       <langhaarrocker> cygwin is something like unix on windows
19.16.26 #       <vici> then it's not sufficient when i just installed gnush (i believed it has all the tools in it) I'll try the other one, t
19.25.53 Quit    TotMacher ()
19.27.11 #       <vici> other question: how can you make a .lng file out of the source? (Next time I update it I'd like to try it first... :-)
19.28.57 #       <elinenbe|what> have a good weekend.  Goodbye.
19.29.03 Quit    elinenbe|what ("I am leaving for a very important meeting")
19.29.03 #       <Zagor> bye
19.30.11 #       <Bagder> vici: you make a .lng from a .lang with 'binlang' in the tools dir
19.32.15 #       <vici> oh i see, same problem as before...
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20.02.25 #       <williams> bye all!
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21.36.59 #       <langhaarrocker> good night!
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