--- Log for 27.10.102  Server: brunner.openprojects.net  Channel: #rockbox
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10.55.28 #       <henrysunset> hello?
10.58.02 #       <henrysunset> i gues noone saw my link from yesterday so i'll repost it.... http://ghettohardware.com/rockbox/ - this is a overview of a new ui organization for rockbox... lmk what ya think
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11.04.29 #       <Norrin> Hello all, has anyone messed with the new Archos FM Recorder?
11.10.26 #       <Norrin> Does anyone know a website available to upgrade the HD in the new Archos FM Recorder?
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15.21.16 #       <Moof> hi
15.22.29 #       <Moof> has anyone seen this error on a Recorder 20?: "Read access error! Can't read from hard drive" just at boot
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18.03.26 #       <ironi> hello ppl
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18.19.53 #       <langhaarrocker> I hate cvs conflicts!
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19.10.27 #       <langhaarrocker> Is it possible to update a patch on the patch tracker?
19.12.36 #       <langhaarrocker> Anybody awake at all?
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19.55.20 #       <Nitronium> http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3311722977
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20.02.48 Join    Artine [0] (~Artine@eu165-237.elon.edu)
20.05.02 #       <Artine> Hey, I'm wondering if anyone can help me a bit?  I'm trying to get the UI Simulator built, and I've gotten the latest source from CVS, but whenever I try to build, I get errors pertaining to files not existing.
20.05.26 #       <langhaarrocker> What are you trying to build it with? 
20.06.03 #       <langhaarrocker> unix? cygwin? 
20.06.09 #       <Artine> First time around, I was using the tools that came with Cygwin, but it seems not to have anything for building win32 executables, so then I tried the mingw tools.
20.06.32 #       <Artine> (I had to change CC and WINDREP, of course)
20.06.43 #       <langhaarrocker> On windows the only way to build the ui simulater seems to be Visual C++
20.07.33 #       <Artine> IIRC, I tried that a few weeks ago and got similar errors: something like lang.c or lang.h didn't exist or something odd like that.  But I'll try again.
20.07.39 #       <Artine> Thanks.
20.08.22 #       <langhaarrocker> It might be that these files have to be build separately.
20.08.30 #       * langhaarrocker trying
20.08.46 #       <Artine> Hmm?  So wait, I need to build something else before the uisimulator?
20.09.02 #       <Artine> Out of curiosity, are there binaries for the UISimulator available, 'cuz if this doesn't end up working, that'd save a good deal of time :-)
20.09.07 #       <langhaarrocker> lang.c is generated by a pearl script.
20.09.31 #       <Artine> Grr..  So I still gotta use Cygwin somehow.  I guess I need to build it without the simulator in Cygwin, then use VC++ for the UISim?
20.09.35 #       <langhaarrocker> You may have to run tools/make before
20.09.39 #       <Artine> Alrighty
20.09.51 #       <Artine> Thanks tons for the advice, I'm gonna go see what I can figure out :-D
20.19.50 #       <langhaarrocker> I just managed to build a uisim using VC++ from the cygwin shell
20.20.21 #       <Artine> Hmm....  Showoff :-)  I'm still trying to get it work.  But how did you use VC++ from Cygwin???
20.21.48 #       <langhaarrocker> I just had to call the VCVARS32.BAT in the bin dir of VC++ and then used nmake in uisim/win32
20.22.36 #       <langhaarrocker> That way the makefile could find perl...
20.25.05 #       <Artine> Hmm...  Gotta give that a try :-)
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20.28.21 #       <Artine> How very odd....  BUTTON_MENU seems to be undeclared.  (As does, I assume, BUTTON_STOP, BUTTON_*.)  I suppose I could enum { BUTTON_WHATEVER}; but it seems that that's already there.  I think I must not have a clue what I'm doing :-)
20.28.58 #       <langhaarrocker> BUTTON_MENU is on the player only.
20.29.49 #       <langhaarrocker> It's declared in firmware/drivers/button.h
20.29.51 #       <Artine> Ah, so it's something like #ifdef PLAYER ... BUTTON_MENU ... #endif?  Something seems very screwy about this.
20.30.09 #       <langhaarrocker> yes
20.30.56 #       * Artine investigates these problems more deeply and becomes skeptical of this computer's installation of cygwin and vc++, etc..
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20.31.34 #       <langhaarrocker> are you uisimming the recorder?
20.32.48 #       <Artine> That's my intention.  But what I'm /actually/ doing at the moment is anyone's guess :-)
20.34.03 #       <langhaarrocker> I'd call it "Artine in rockboxland"
20.34.16 #       * Artine laughs
20.34.23 #       * Artine remains confuzzled
20.34.50 #       * Artine has a theory, and tests it :-)
20.35.38 #       <Artine> Hmm...  Nmake is giving errors in macro invocations.  I doubt that it has a clue what it's talking about.
20.35.57 #       <Artine> No, it definitely doesn't.  The macro seems to be defined just right...
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20.36.59 #       <henrysunset> 'ello
20.37.04 #       <Artine> Allo
20.37.11 #       <langhaarrocker> oLLA
20.40.12 #       <henrysunset> anyone read that doc i posted as to reorganizing the rockbox menus??
20.41.00 #       <henrysunset> i put some thought inot how to make the box work better in cases liek when you are driving and have to memorize the ui
20.42.04 #       <Artine> Did you send it to the mailing list?
20.42.36 #       <langhaarrocker> henrysunset: I remember having forgotten that I read something about that.
20.45.31 #       <langhaarrocker> Was that a feature request?
20.46.46 #       <henrysunset> no
20.46.53 #       <henrysunset> i'm not on the mailing list or nothing
20.46.56 #       <henrysunset> heres a link
20.47.01 #       <langhaarrocker> I don't find your note any more.
20.47.08 #       <henrysunset> http://ghettohardware.com/rockbox
20.47.27 #       <henrysunset> tell me what u think
20.47.47 #       <langhaarrocker> I've never been on that site.
20.47.56 #       <henrysunset> it's sorta more than just a bug report so i wrote a preliminary doc as to how i'd like to reorganize the box
20.48.12 #       <henrysunset> that is all
20.53.05 #       * langhaarrocker still reading
20.53.05 #       <langhaarrocker> Do I understand this right that you can't change the volume via the f1 overlay without using two buttons simultaniously?
20.54.10 #       <henrysunset> you would have to use 2 buttons @ once if you were in a view besides the player view
20.54.37 #       * langhaarrocker should read about the player view.
20.54.38 #       <henrysunset> you could always switch to the player view then press up/down
20.55.33 #       <henrysunset> so you have options... hold f1 then press up/down to change volume without leaving your current place in the ui; or go onto the player view and use up/down as usual
20.56.01 #       <henrysunset> i need to explain stuff better; but i'm trying to see if i'm making any sense to begin with
20.56.36 #       <langhaarrocker> How will we access more overlay menus than there are fx buttons?
20.56.51 #       <langhaarrocker> I see
20.57.15 #       <henrysunset> figgured it out?
20.57.38 #       <langhaarrocker> maybe. 
20.57.49 #       <henrysunset> there would be 4 overlay menus... one for f1,f2,f3, and on
20.58.12 #       <henrysunset> f1 overlays are quick ways to do player tasks
20.58.20 #       <henrysunset> f2 are quick ways to do playlist tasks
20.58.29 #       <henrysunset> f3 is quick ways to do explorer tasks
20.58.41 #       <langhaarrocker> For additional things we'd have to go to the root of the global hierarchy?
20.58.45 #       <henrysunset> and since on is the main menu; the on quickmenu would be where the options live
20.58.50 #       <henrysunset> yup
20.58.53 #       <henrysunset> you go t it
20.59.35 #       <henrysunset> possibly the user could customize which items they want for f1-f3 but i think these are the best 3.
21.00.41 #       <langhaarrocker> Problem: Assume we're in playlist overlay. User hits f1 -> we're in player overlay. User hits f3 -> we're in explorer overlay. 
21.00.43 #       <langhaarrocker> Now the user somehow exits the  overlay. Where will he return to?
21.00.49 #       <Artine> Hmmm...  I just gave it a read, and I think it would help tremendously.
21.01.09 #       <henrysunset> thx artine
21.01.22 #       <henrysunset> laugh: the overlays don't cover the whole screen
21.01.38 #       <henrysunset> the user overlay just goes away when yer done using it
21.02.08 #       <henrysunset> so you don't change location in the ui when using overlays
21.02.26 #       <henrysunset> you are just temporarily in the overlay
21.03.10 #       <langhaarrocker> So you can't directly change form the first overlay to another without leaving the first overlay?
21.03.29 #       <henrysunset> i don't know that that would make any sense; no?
21.03.44 #       <henrysunset> overlays are inherenty quick tasks
21.03.51 #       <henrysunset> you do them and return to reality
21.04.57 #       <henrysunset> i'll add some sketches and this will mke more sense i think
21.05.28 #       <Artine> It's just a quick little reminder, right?  Think of how you get a quick little window when you Alt-Tab in KDE and GNOME and Windows, its there while you make your decision and as soon as you let go its gone.  Am I right?
21.06.03 #       <henrysunset> yup
21.06.08 #       <henrysunset> good analogy
21.06.17 #       <henrysunset> if u released alt and tab the popup goes away
21.06.48 #       <henrysunset> there would be some populs that you are required to answer though
21.07.25 #       <Artine> For example...?
21.07.26 #       <henrysunset> like when hitting enter on a folder in the tree; you have to make a decision if you want to add the contents of that folder recursively o not to the playlist
21.07.33 #       <Artine> Ahhh....
21.07.50 #       <henrysunset> but it's an important question; and a situation we can't do at all now
21.07.58 #       <henrysunset> so i think its worth it
21.08.00 #       <langhaarrocker> To me that seems to make the overlays only usable two handed.
21.08.09 #       <henrysunset> naw
21.08.10 #       <henrysunset> try it
21.08.13 #       <henrysunset> it isnt that hard
21.08.17 #       <henrysunset> use 2 fingers
21.08.41 #       <henrysunset> or a finger and your thumb
21.09.00 #       * langhaarrocker got stuck in the usb jack
21.09.13 #       <henrysunset> lol
21.09.24 #       <henrysunset> but remember
21.09.28 #       * Artine gives up trying to build this thing in Windows and waits until he gets to his own computer for Linux :-)
21.09.30 #       <henrysunset> the overlays aren't required
21.09.39 #       <langhaarrocker> Now try to do that while the jukebox is in your pocket.
21.09.58 #       <henrysunset> if its in your pocket you'd just go into the player menu
21.10.07 #       <henrysunset> and then the doble-tapping isnt required
21.10.27 #       <langhaarrocker> Artine: if you really _need_ a uisim I could send it to you.
21.10.30 #       <henrysunset> when in the player view; you can change tracks and volume witht the arrows
21.10.56 #       <Artine> I'll really need one when I start developing code, which I won't be doing while I'm here.  So I'll just wait and build it for X.  But thanks
21.11.22 #       <henrysunset> laugh: does that makes sense though?
21.11.33 #       <henrysunset> for the in the pocket example
21.12.26 #       <langhaarrocker> henrysunset: what about extending your idea by this: If you press & hold the fx key the overlay remains active for 2 seconds even if you release the the fx key. 
21.12.35 #       <henrysunset> ok
21.12.41 #       <henrysunset> that's fine
21.13.05 #       <henrysunset> i don't think i would choose to use that option but it is a valid one
21.13.20 #       <Artine> Hmmm.....  Here's an idea.  What if interface behavior was defined by a script, kind of like how the WPS can be defined by a little definition file?
21.13.33 #       <henrysunset> i dont think we want to do that
21.13.35 #       <Artine> So that each user could customize the behavior to his/her own preferences?
21.13.44 #       <Artine> Wherefore?
21.13.59 #       <henrysunset> it takes resources to parse it
21.14.07 #       <Artine> Ah, this is true.
21.14.19 #       <langhaarrocker> Artine: I'm working on that.
21.14.20 #       * Artine isn't used to developing in such a limited environment :-)
21.14.38 #       <henrysunset> and it would prolly make for a less-rich UI; or a overly complex parser
21.14.46 #       <langhaarrocker> I can already assign some buttons to some functions, parse an external file, etc.
21.15.00 #       <henrysunset> well; i intend to refine this idea a good bit before anyone tries it in code
21.15.29 #       <henrysunset> laugh: how is it going then?  i mean are resources an issue?
21.15.48 #       <henrysunset> or does it build the ui as a map in memory at boot and then just run off that?
21.15.56 #       <langhaarrocker> Wait a week or two and you can try your idea as key scheme files.
21.16.12 #       <henrysunset> ok
21.16.44 #       <henrysunset> (i've never been a fan of themes/schemes; but if it does what i want i guess i'll be happy)
21.17.00 #       <henrysunset> i agree with apple; make one ui; make it good and let the world use it
21.17.24 #       <langhaarrocker> We'll of course have a factory-preset.
21.17.30 #       <Artine> And I agree with LiteStep, make a format and let the world do what they want with it :-)
21.17.40 #       <henrysunset> and i'll make sure to make mine be just that :-)
21.17.52 #       <langhaarrocker> But I think there are too may different purposes the jukebox can be used in which require different uis
21.18.00 #       <henrysunset> perhaps
21.18.19 #       <henrysunset> the bigger problem is the limited controls
21.18.50 #       <henrysunset> so; can you implement a popup functionality in your schemeable ui?
21.18.52 #       <Artine> Completely: OT: Out of curiosity, is it possible to have any sort of grayscaling of the LCD by, say, changing the voltage on each pixel?  Or having different contrast levels for each pixel?  Or is contrast just one set level in the LCD controller?
21.19.14 #       <henrysunset> prolly if we change contrast rapidly we could fake it
21.19.26 #       <Artine> But again, resource consumption is the problem?
21.19.32 #       <langhaarrocker> herysunset: configurable menus or overlays will be easy as a side effect.
21.19.33 #       <henrysunset> they did that with the ti85 calculators back in the day
21.19.37 #       <henrysunset> but the screen would flicker
21.19.43 #       <henrysunset> ok
21.19.48 #       <Artine> Henrysunset:  That's sort of what I was thinking of.
21.20.09 #       <henrysunset> artine: prolly
21.20.09 #       <Artine> Henry: Really?  My calc can grayscale w/o flickering.  Odd.
21.20.18 #       <henrysunset> ti85?
21.20.23 #       <henrysunset> i dont think so
21.20.28 #       <Artine> 89.  But it's technically a one-color LCD
21.20.29 #       <langhaarrocker> herysunset: I already made the fx_screen functions definable - only the file parsing is missing.
21.20.41 #       <henrysunset> 89 is newer and has shades
21.20.50 #       <Artine> Oh.  Well, nevermind then :-)
21.21.02 #       <henrysunset> so what's an fx_screen?
21.21.19 #       <langhaarrocker> Artine: With the peak meter I experienced gray scales without wanting to.
21.21.23 #       <henrysunset> like what we have now; as f2 and f3?
21.21.31 #       <langhaarrocker> yes
21.21.39 #       <henrysunset> k
21.22.28 #       <henrysunset> could the fx_screen appear only when a key is held and dissapear if it is released?
21.23.02 #       <henrysunset> rather than appearing when clicked and dissapearing when clicked again
21.23.10 #       <langhaarrocker> you can hold fx and press another key and on release of fx the screen vanishes.
21.23.16 #       <henrysunset> ok
21.23.30 #       <langhaarrocker> when clicking fx it remains until clicked off.
21.23.49 #       <henrysunset> can you make the fx_screen only come up after the key has switched from being tapped to being held?
21.24.27 #       <langhaarrocker> we can do nearly whatever we want.
21.24.28 #       <henrysunset> cuz tapping f1 in my ui would bring the user to the player view
21.24.31 #       <henrysunset> ok
21.24.54 #       <henrysunset> but holding f1 will fring up what you refer to as a fx screen
21.24.59 #       <henrysunset> *bring
21.25.33 #       * langhaarrocker feels guilty of being lazy
21.25.51 #       <langhaarrocker> I could have finished the key scheme demo by now
21.26.03 #       <henrysunset> get to i
21.26.06 #       <henrysunset> it
21.26.30 #       <langhaarrocker> Well - I posted a dBfs peak meter patch instead.
21.28.01 #       <langhaarrocker> What really is missing is the buid process for the factory preset. We'll want to generate a c file from a key scheme file. Haven't done that yet.
21.36.17 #       <henrysunset> ah yeah
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21.36.27 #       <henrysunset> why have a default tho?
21.36.37 #       <henrysunset> you can install one with the installer
21.36.41 #       <henrysunset> doesnt need to be hardcoded
21.36.57 #       <langhaarrocker> Otherwise the installation would require a additional file. We don't need that.
21.37.06 #       <henrysunset> why not
21.37.11 #       <henrysunset> the fonts are external
21.37.17 #       <henrysunset> why shouldnt the ui be
21.37.25 #       <henrysunset> they r both required
21.37.30 #       <langhaarrocker> And if the user changes that file and screws it he could return to the default by deleting his screwed version.
21.37.40 #       <henrysunset> oh; another ?... is it possible to use 2 fonts at once?
21.37.45 #       <langhaarrocker> There are build in fonts
21.37.48 #       <henrysunset> yes true
21.37.59 #       <henrysunset> i want an intalic or bold font too
21.38.22 #       <henrysunset> for the now playing track in the playlist view
21.38.30 #       <langhaarrocker> The key scheme file is only to enable the user to overwrite the default behaviour.
21.38.48 #       <langhaarrocker> We can't have servaral fonts active simultaniously.
21.39.00 #       <henrysunset> why not?
21.39.11 #       <henrysunset> just resources issue
21.39.14 #       <langhaarrocker> waste of memory.
21.39.17 #       <henrysunset> k
21.39.29 #       <henrysunset> could we underline the title of the one that is playing?
21.39.57 #       <langhaarrocker> That should be possible. But I won't program it. :)
21.40.17 #       <henrysunset> it is probably worthwhile to use a bit more resources if we can improve the user experience a good bit though
21.40.21 #       <henrysunset> i see
21.40.27 #       <henrysunset> would it be difficult?
21.40.27 #       <langhaarrocker> We might have font styles like italic, double strike...
21.40.38 #       <henrysunset> yeah all i want is italic
21.41.25 #       <henrysunset> peace i'm out
21.41.29 #       <langhaarrocker> not difficult. just a new function in lcd.c . Really a job of half an hour, or so. But then we would want to apply font styles to the wps tags. That requires some wore work.
21.41.30 #       <henrysunset> gonna go play frisbee
21.41.56 #       <henrysunset> i see
21.42.05 #       <henrysunset> well i'll refinemy ui doc a bit
21.42.18 #       <langhaarrocker> dont' hurt yourself. Neither the frisbee.
21.42.26 #       <henrysunset> and i don't care if its hardcoded or implemented thro yer ui toolkit but I def wanna work on it
21.42.35 #       <henrysunset> ok i'll be careful/
21.43.18 #       <langhaarrocker> that's good: I can programm, I can't design uis. That's proven.
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22.40.37 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
22.41.30 #       <langhaarrocker> Is your wife better by now?
22.41.59 #       <LinusN> nope, not really
22.42.12 #       <LinusN> i'm home just for the night
22.42.41 #       <langhaarrocker> Is it serious? Danger for life?
22.43.24 #       <LinusN> not for life
22.43.54 #       <LinusN> but she probably has quite some time in a wheelchair to look forward to...
22.44.06 #       <langhaarrocker> hrgh
22.45.40 #       <langhaarrocker> But the time is not for ever I dare to assume?
22.46.55 #       <LinusN> i guess not.
22.47.11 #       <LinusN> most women recover from it completely
22.47.49 #       <LinusN> it may take some weeks, or even months
22.48.54 #       <langhaarrocker> Is it your first child? (Congrat's btw!)
22.49.56 #       <LinusN> thanks! no, it's the second. i have a 3 year old son too
22.49.59 Quit    TotMacher ()
22.50.18 #       <LinusN> check out linus.haxx.se
22.50.59 #       <langhaarrocker> funny language
22.51.21 #       <LinusN> almost as funny as dutch
22.51.58 #       <langhaarrocker> dutch is not a language - it's a illnes in the throat.
22.52.18 #       <LinusN> :-)
22.52.55 #       <LinusN> what was the word for sugar lumps again?
22.53.02 #       <LinusN> seukerklontjes?
22.53.47 #       <langhaarrocker> Probably more zuiker klontjes. But I'm german and don't know really much dutch.
22.54.25 #       <langhaarrocker> But the way you spelled it would probably be phonetically correct.
22.54.53 #       <LinusN> strange, i thought you were dutch. where did i get that from?
22.55.26 #       <langhaarrocker> maybe because of this double aa in langhaarrocker. That's makes it look dutch.
22.55.34 #       <LinusN> probably
22.57.40 Join    Triple-z [0] (~Mp3@212.116.168.62.knet.co.il)
22.57.49 #       <Triple-z> hey
22.57.55 #       <langhaarrocker> ho
22.58.09 #       <Triple-z> whats new?
22.58.27 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: not much, i guess
22.58.30 #       <langhaarrocker> I need someone to commit my peak meter dBfs patch.
22.58.45 #       <LinusN> langhaarrocker: is it cool?
22.58.56 #       <langhaarrocker> of course. It's by me.
22.59.03 #       <LinusN> oh, i forgot :-)
22.59.32 #       <LinusN> langhaarrocker: what's new, except the dB scale?
22.59.49 #       <langhaarrocker> You have plenty of options now to configure the thing. Another thing to outfeature every peak meter available.
23.00.03 #       <LinusN> what options?
23.00.31 #       <langhaarrocker> You can adjust the boundaries (min, max), toggle linear / dBfs, have high performance mode.
23.01.52 #       <LinusN> k00l, how does the hp mode work?
23.02.01 #       <Triple-z> the whole menus are messed up in archos20021027.ajz
23.02.13 #       <Triple-z> in sound setting etc
23.02.25 #       <langhaarrocker> LinusN: basically as you told me the way you use the peak meter while recording.
23.02.51 #       <langhaarrocker> A loop with many peak_meter_peek calls and occasional refreshes.
23.03.23 #       <langhaarrocker> And a yield sometimes to keep bitswap happy.
23.03.29 #       <LinusN> langhaarrocker: ok
23.04.03 #       <langhaarrocker> I did something someone might want to have a look at first.
23.04.13 #       <langhaarrocker> I extended the mechanism of wps_refresh.
23.04.34 #       <langhaarrocker> Up to now it could only distinguis wether to update everything or the dynamic lines only
23.05.07 #       <langhaarrocker> Now that we have multi line scrolling I thought it would be a good idea to fine tune the update mechanism a bit further.
23.05.52 #       <Triple-z> anyone got problems in the sound setting menu in today built?
23.05.59 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: haven't tried it
23.06.19 #       <Triple-z> i got it since the 16.10 built
23.06.25 #       <langhaarrocker> Now we can specify to update only peak_meter / progressbar / lines, too.
23.06.39 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: what language?
23.06.41 #       <langhaarrocker> Triple-z: like functions not returning ?
23.06.55 #       <Triple-z> english
23.07.05 #       <Triple-z> its like messed up
23.07.24 #       <Triple-z> wrong text in the menus
23.08.06 #       <LinusN> Triple-z: try this: remove the .lng files from .rockbox if you have any
23.08.07 #       <Triple-z> ill use the ver with the queue
23.08.17 #       <Triple-z> ill try
23.08.22 #       <langhaarrocker> Oops. I have that, too. But only for Auto volume.
23.09.13 #       <LinusN> daily builds may not like the old 1.4 language files 
23.09.26 #       <Triple-z> nm
23.09.40 #       <Triple-z> ill wait for 1.5
23.09.45 #       <langhaarrocker> :)
23.09.47 #       <LinusN> hehe
23.10.53 #       <langhaarrocker> I never have used external language files yet.
23.11.06 #       <Triple-z> i need to find a good way to sort my mp3s on the archos
23.11.14 #       <LinusN> time to reboot into linux, cu soon
23.11.16 #       <langhaarrocker> delete them?
23.11.23 Part    LinusN
23.11.47 #       <Triple-z> nah
23.12.14 #       <langhaarrocker> hrgh, boss on phone. I'll be back.
23.12.18 #       <Triple-z> i got them in folders like albums, electronic, etc
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