--- Log for 10.01.103  Server: calvino.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16p1  Started: 1 month and 18 days ago

00.01.38 #       <kargatron> shuffle problems?
00.02.51 #       <Naked> kargatron: well, "problems" - I don't think there's a bug per se, but I don't like the way it behaves
00.03.44 #       <kargatron> too many near neighbors?
00.06.01 #       <BoD[]> not really random?
00.08.36 #       <kargatron> i bet it's fairly random, which is a problem - random isn't "random" enough for most people - humans live to pick out patterns
00.09.01 #       <BoD[]> :)) what is "real" random?
00.09.09 #       <kargatron> i certainyl get the impression often that there's too much 'bunching' in shuffle, but i'm not prepared to say that it's not random.
00.09.22 #       <Naked> err err, no not about that
00.09.55 #       <kargatron> well, real random is a mathematical entity - "random" in quotes is what people think random is :)
00.10.09 #       <kargatron> but Naked's not talking about that, so...
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00.11.10 #       <Naked> um, but let me confirm one thing - what happens when the playlist is played through in shuffle mode, when the final song has been played?
00.11.30 #       <kargatron> pl ends
00.11.44 #       <Naked> with 'all' repeat on?
00.11.59 #       <kargatron> oh, then i think the same shuffle order repeats
00.12.20 #       <Naked> well that's problem number one - and it can't be fixed by re-shuffling the list when it repeats
00.13.02 #       <Zagor> i agree with kargatron. i hear patterns in the shuffled play too.
00.13.28 #       <BoD[]> me, i see patterns in pi.
00.13.39 #       <kargatron> but until someone does a statistical analysis, i'm not prepared to call those patterns real, is all
00.13.44 #       <Naked> oh the shuffling algorithm isn't nice
00.13.46 #       <BoD[]> but nobody believes me :)
00.14.02 #       <Zagor> Naked: in what way?
00.15.05 #       <Naked> Zagor: umm, all it does is perhaps swaps the current song with a random one while going through the playlist
00.15.50 #       <Naked> that's not going to create an even distribution I believe
00.16.30 #       <Zagor> no? any suggestion how we should do instead?
00.16.42 #       <Naked> if you'd wish for an random ordering of the songs, you'd need to pick songs randomly from the playlist and place them in a new list in that order - or a similar algorithm which does the same in-place
00.16.46 #       <Naked> but
00.16.59 #       <Naked> the problem gets trickier with 'all' repeat, so it'd be best to solve both problems at once
00.17.26 #       <Naked> though I could write a small trivial patch for the random picking
00.17.33 #       <kargatron> Naked, is your dissatisfaction with the algortihm anything other than a 'hunch'?
00.18.01 #       <Zagor> i don't see how random picking is any different from random swapping?
00.19.07 #       <Naked> kargatron: err, it's not a hunch - random swapping while going through the list in order means that songs that get swapped to a spot higher than they were have a chance of getting swapped repeatedly
00.19.21 #       <Naked> um, I think I could write a small proggie to demonstrate
00.19.28 #       <Zagor> ok
00.19.28 #       <Naked> and to convince myself, too :)
00.22.11 #       <Zagor> can you do random picking without using twice the ram?
00.22.32 #       <BoD[]> intuitivly i say yes
00.23.46 #       <Naked> Zagor: yes
00.23.48 #       <Naked> trivially
00.24.07 #       <Zagor> ok, good
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00.25.37 #       <kargatron> i'm unconvinced Naked's objection has statistical validity.  i think conceptually understanding the stat. issues behind shuffling is less than obvious. :)  (not saying i do)
00.26.06 #       <kargatron> e.g. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=shuffle+algorithms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=7eb8ac3e.0109031259.6ceb5509%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
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00.26.10 #       <Naked> kargatron: we'll see, I'm not exactly convinced myself now when I re-read the algorithm
00.26.31 #       <Zagor> i freely admit i'm pretty clueless about random issues
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00.28.09 #       <Naked> actually, that algorithm seems to do the picking sort exactly, I was just baffled by the reducing 'count' in the loop
00.28.16 #       <Naked> lemme re-read it once more
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00.30.34 #       <Naked> hmh, yes - it just does semi-unnecessary swapping all the time
00.31.07 #       <Naked> so the only bias that randomise algorithm gets is from the not so good use of rand()
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00.31.19 #       <Zagor> yes it does. otherwise we'd have to mark swapped entries somehow
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00.32.50 #       <Naked> the mersenne twister that's rand() there is a very good algorithm even in the low-order bits of randomness - but even still, a better method to obtain a random number from 0 to n is to use the whole range, instead of just some bits from it
00.33.51 #       <Zagor> yes. but rand() returns a value between 0 and RAND_MAX in a signed int, so we have to limit it to 31 bits 
00.34.27 #       <Naked> Zagor: yes but I was referring to the use of modulo there, which basically takes the low-order bits from the number and that's all
00.34.33 #       <kargatron> hm, i'd think 'user satisfaction' of a shuffle has very little connection to the quality of the rand - i.e. even a poor rand won't be negatively noticed by users
00.34.48 #       <Naked> kargatron: yup, that's very true
00.35.10 #       <mecraw> our first rand() was negatively noticed by users
00.35.12 #       <Zagor> ah
00.35.16 #       <Naked> this is just mostly theoretical discussion
00.35.23 #       <kargatron> in fact, a smart non-random shuffler is needed to reduce clumping, i bet.  
00.35.33 #       <Naked> well
00.35.34 #       <kargatron> i think winamp 3 has a configurable shuffle
00.35.46 #       <Naked> the thing is, when there's 'all' repeat on and shuffle on
00.36.06 #       <kargatron> yes, a different issue.
00.36.21 #       <Naked> what is wanted is rather a biased true random play
00.36.40 #       <kargatron> Naked, obviously, if you're repeating a playlist - they're too damn short! :)
00.36.48 #       <BoD[]> :))
00.37.03 #       <Jet8810> does music match make "unmessy" playlists?
00.37.18 #       <Naked> kargatron: I usually pick a cd and listen to it for a couple of days - first in order, then on shuffle - and then pick a next cd
00.37.58 #       <Zagor> life signs from linus
00.37.59 #       <kargatron> i'm the opposite - never listen to albums on mp3
00.38.20 #       <kargatron> i get enough of that from cds - mp3s let me NOT do that :)
00.39.07 #       <Jet8810> does music match make "unmessy" playlists?
00.39.23 #       <Jet8810> like no C:\this\that\mp3s\blah\b;ajb;aj
00.39.25 #       <Jet8810> :)
00.39.43 #       <kargatron> afaik no, that's what everyone complains about
00.39.44 #       <Jet8810> I have never used .m3us in my life lol :)
00.39.51 #       <BoD[]> jet8810 : I dont know.. you should try with dir /s and stuff, or install cygwin and use "find".
00.39.52 #       <kargatron> never used it, can't answer for sure
00.40.06 #       <Jet8810> k
00.42.00 #       <kargatron> nite
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01.06.22 #       <BoD[]> i go to bed now ! see you all bye
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01.19.45 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
01.32.58 #       <Zagor> LinusN!
01.33.10 #       <LinusN> yo man!
01.33.17 #       <Zagor> back in stockholm?
01.33.47 #       <LinusN> nope, i will stay in Gothenburg a few more weeks
01.33.52 #       <Zagor> oh, ok
01.34.04 #       <Zagor> will you have any time for rockbox work?
01.34.06 #       <LinusN> it's better for Sara here
01.34.18 #       <LinusN> not much rb work, unfortunately
01.34.18 #       <Zagor> ok
01.34.32 #       <LinusN> but i will try to work a little
01.35.39 #       <LinusN> the kids take all my time, now when Rasmus doesn't go to the daycare center
01.35.50 #       <Zagor> yeah, I can understand that
01.36.10 #       <LinusN> that's why i sit here in the middle of the night
01.36.11 #       <LinusN> :-)
01.36.16 #       <Zagor> hehe
01.36.39 #       <Zagor> uwe had a problem with backlight not staying turned off, have you seen that in the mailing list?
01.36.44 #       <LinusN> running Windows...damn soft modem crap
01.36.50 #       <Zagor> ugh
01.36.55 #       <LinusN> yeah i have had that problem a long time
01.37.01 #       <Zagor> o
01.37.02 #       <Zagor> k
01.37.04 #       <LinusN> (backlight)
01.37.20 #       <LinusN> and the poweroff problem too
01.37.57 #       <LinusN> i don't know what causes it
01.38.15 #       <Zagor> ok
01.38.40 #       <LinusN> but i can imagine that the RTC is onvolved
01.39.08 #       <LinusN> perhaps it tristates the squarewave output when the power is lost
01.39.33 #       <LinusN> and it goes low, lighting up the LEDS
01.40.13 #       <LinusN> most of the time, the poweroff function works
01.40.21 #       <LinusN> just not when i'm working on it :-)
01.40.36 #       <LinusN> like when iu worked on the sleep timer
01.40.53 #       <Zagor> murphy never dies.
01.40.56 #       <Zagor> nor sleeps
01.41.01 #       <LinusN> well, i gotta go to bed now
01.41.19 #       <LinusN> give my regards to the RB folks
01.41.28 #       <Zagor> yup
01.41.38 #       <Zagor> say hi to sara from us
01.41.54 #       <Naked> from me too :)
01.42.29 #       <LinusN> will do, bye all
01.42.32 #       <LinusN> nite
01.42.35 #       <Zagor> bye
01.42.36 #       <Naked> nights
01.42.36 Part    LinusN
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03.27.39 #       <alexl> howdy
03.28.29 #       <alexl> i dont suppose anyone can help me out with the new queueing system?
03.31.05 #       <Zagor> what's your problem?
03.31.59 #       <alexl> when i attempt to queue it tells me 'Queue buffer full'
03.34.15 #       <Zagor> on your first attempt?
03.34.33 #       <Zagor> there is only room for 100 tracks in the queue
03.34.46 #       <alexl> right it was my first attempt
03.35.38 #       <alexl> am i doing something wrong? i turned on the player and started a song.. then i pressed 'on', selected another song and held down the 'play' button
03.36.00 #       <Zagor> no, that is the correct procedure. there must be a bug.
03.36.59 #       <alexl> i tried it with the bleeding edge build and then the most recend daily build
03.37.08 #       <alexl> *recent
03.37.54 #       <Zagor> ok. could you file a bug report?
03.38.55 #       <alexl> yessir I was going to but I just wanted to check and make sure i wasnt doing anything wrong
03.39.11 #       <alexl> is there a build that you know has the queueing function working?
03.40.22 #       <EGM92> Zagor I also have the same problem when I try to queue something it doesn't queue it jsut starts playing
03.41.18 #       <Zagor> alexl: the bleeding edge build from the web page is as late as there is. it's simply a bug we need to fix.
03.41.50 #       <Zagor> EGM92: it only queues if you are already playing music. otherwise it starts playing the file.
03.42.33 #       <EGM92> i am play a song
03.42.43 #       <alexl> alright thank you for your help, i'll have a bug report up in a bit
03.43.11 #       <Zagor> EGM92: ok, then I don't know. it doesn't happen that way for me.
03.43.22 #       <Zagor> anyhow, i'm off to bed now. see you later!
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03.43.34 #       <EGM92> lets say im playnig a song, then I click on the ON butten and tehn it takes me back to my songdir, then I search for the song I want to queue and I hit the play button or press it down it starts to play the song
03.52.12 #       <hardeep> alexl: do you have a .rockbox directory?
03.52.27 #       <alexl> no i dont
03.52.39 #       <hardeep> alexl: that's the problem... you need to creat one
03.52.49 #       <alexl> ok where are instructions on how to do this?
03.52.59 #       <hardeep> we store the queue list information in that directory....  if it doesn't exist we can't save it
03.53.02 #       <alexl> i attempted to once, but i couldnt find documentation on how to do it
03.53.04 #       <alexl> oh alright
03.53.09 #       <hardeep> what OS do you use?
03.53.18 #       <alexl> windows xp :(
03.53.39 #       <hardeep> alexl: open up the command prompt (start->run->"cmd")
03.53.52 #       <alexl> ok
03.53.54 #       <hardeep> go to your jukebox... e.g. g:
03.54.01 #       <alexl> right
03.54.01 #       <hardeep> then "mkdir .rockbox"
03.54.27 #       <hardeep> http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/faq.html#65
03.54.33 #       <alexl> gosh im not up with dos
03.54.54 #       <alexl> ok thank you, all i needis that folder and ill be able to use it?
03.54.57 #       <hardeep> yep
03.55.08 #       <hardeep> if it doesn't work... post a bug, i'll look at it later tonight
03.55.10 #       <alexl> ok I apprecaite your help
03.55.14 #       <alexl> alright thank you very much
03.55.21 #       <hardeep> gotta run
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03.56.01 #       <alexl> ha alright thanks again
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04.00.41 #       <EGM92> Hey hardeep, i got the .rockbox fodler, do I need to put my songs into that .rockbox directory to make the que list work?
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04.43.45 #       <hardeep> EGM92: no, the folder just needs to exist.  You can play songs from any directory
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04.51.08 #       <EGM92> oh ok
04.51.44 #       <EGM92> Since I see you guys are maknig yourown firmware and stuff do you guys know any other people making little applications and stuff?
04.51.51 #       <EGM92> besides Rcokbox?
04.52.05 #       <hardeep> for the archos jukebox?
04.55.51 #       <hardeep> EGM92: btw, regarding your earlier question... make sure you hold on to play for a second or so if you want to queue a song
04.56.08 #       <hardeep> don't just hit play and release... this will start the song instead of queuing it
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08.02.10 #       <Asskick> guys i got a question.. anyone here has the Multimedia Jukebox ?
08.02.28 #       <Asskick> its cuz i mixed the power supplies with others
08.02.36 #       <Asskick> and now i dont know which one is the correct for the unit :S
08.07.27 #       <Asskick> any1?
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08.26.41 #       <ricII> morning...
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08.34.35 #       <hardeep> heya bagder
08.34.50 #       <Bagder> hi
08.43.21 #       <ricII> is the malloc stuff gonna be used at sometime?
08.44.16 #       <Bagder> if we must, otherwise not ;-)
08.44.59 #       <ricII> would be nice if we had some general cache buffer space..
08.45.06 #       <hardeep> i noticed that zagor has a global shared memory buffer in his TODO list
08.45.16 #       <hardeep> that's probably the closest we'll probably get
08.45.36 #       <Bagder> right, but that is far simpler than malloc
08.46.18 #       <hardeep> yeah
08.46.35 #       <ricII> for playlists, queuing, dircaches etc
08.46.49 #       <Bagder> ricII: we don't use malloc for that
08.47.45 #       <ricII> but all are allocated staticly wasting space..
08.48.02 #       <Bagder> no, not since we need them to be able to use all the memory at the same time anyway
08.48.31 #       <Bagder> then we gain space, since we have no fragmentation
08.49.45 #       <ricII> but it imposes limits on things like the queue & direntries ..
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08.49.51 #       <Bagder> yes
08.50.01 #       <Bagder> but simply going to malloc() would not be an easy route to fix that
08.50.24 #       <ricII> no y'r right..
08.52.05 #       <ricII> but re-using e.g. the dirbuffer in the text-viewer would be nice.
08.52.35 #       <Bagder> well, that's basicly why we talk about that global shared buffer
08.52.44 #       <Bagder> all apps today have their own buffer
08.53.03 #       <Bagder> the dirbuffer can't be reused though
08.53.06 #       <ricII> well that's what i meant some sort of mem sharing
08.54.35 #       <ricII> Bagder: why not ? it can always be rebuild?
08.54.47 #       <Bagder> it is used for playback when playing a dir
08.54.57 #       <Bagder> like a playlist in mem
08.55.22 #       <ricII> Bagder: but I was about to change that anyways ;) (dynamic playlists)
08.56.17 #       <Bagder> so you intend to make even a simple dirplay use a dynamic playlist?
08.56.43 #       <ricII> yes, for the sake of simplicity 
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08.57.34 #       <Bagder> I wouldn't agree that it is simpler, but if made that way the dirbuffer can be that same global shared memory buffer indeed
08.57.48 #       <ricII> would also make it easy to queue / add entiry directories
08.58.07 #       <Bagder> add to what?
08.58.25 #       <ricII> the (dynamic) playlist
08.58.29 #       <Bagder> ah
08.58.30 #       <Bagder> right
08.58.51 #       <Bagder> but it'll be a new concept
08.59.23 #       <Bagder> that when people do "play" on a single song, they can add songs to the dir, but not really the dir but instead the dynamic playlist ;-)
08.59.43 #       <ricII> yes, you could build playlist on the spot & save them.
09.00.50 #       <ricII> verry close to queuing wich is more a sort of fifo taking precedence
09.03.44 #       <Bagder> anyway, whether dirplay uses this or not, it'll be a nice feature
09.04.16 #       <ricII> I would like to use rb more autonomous
09.04.27 #       <hardeep> i like the idea of dirplay also being a dynamic playlist
09.04.48 #       <hardeep> it simplifies the playlist code (removes all the in_ram code)... also frees memory 
09.04.52 #       <Bagder> I think I do too, it would remove some kludge code 
09.05.22 #       <ricII> yep, that's my biggest problem with the current code
09.06.42 #       <ricII> also the font stuff kinda grow on the recorder-lcd.
09.07.41 #       <ricII> using small-prop fonts leads to problem every where..
09.10.13 #       <hardeep> oh, we can update a couple of entries in the feature comparison chart: queueing and bad path prefixes
09.10.22 #       <Bagder> ah, right
09.10.35 #       <Bagder> me fix
09.11.10 #       <hardeep> hmmm, with dynamic playlist dirplay, we could also potentially remove the 400 song restriction....  i see that complaint a lot
09.11.17 #       <ricII> font_y != 8, wsp, debug->mpeg widgets are to big, placed wrong. scrolling code behaves funny in menus etc..
09.11.29 #       <hardeep> ack, actually not, sorting... blah
09.11.35 #       <hardeep> for shuffle play we could!
09.11.58 #       <Bagder> yes, for playing a dir it would be removed
09.12.03 #       <Bagder> not for browsing it
09.12.08 #       <hardeep> yeah, playing
09.12.52 #       <ricII> Bagder some sort of pagefile could help sorting and friends... 
09.13.23 #       <Bagder> yes it could, but you won't catch me writing it ;-)
09.14.27 #       <dwihno> *yawn*
09.14.33 #       <dwihno> I need a vacation!
09.14.43 #       <ricII> I intent to always write the playlist to disk, anonymous-playlist...
09.14.50 #       <dwihno> All this christmas has left me tired and yawnish ;)
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09.15.09 #       <hardeep> heya zagor
09.15.23 #       <dwihno> Good morning, Z
09.15.30 Nick    Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09.15.30 #       <Zagor> morn
09.16.11 #       <ricII> Bagder that would only leave the dircache open
09.16.21 #       <hardeep> ricII: even when playing a playlist, you could copy it over to your anonymous playlist
09.16.55 #       <ricII> hardeep: I already coded that.. (file copy)
09.17.07 #       <Bagder> but that'll take time
09.17.30 #       <Bagder> my 3500 song list is some >200KB big
09.17.58 #       <hardeep> laugh, fear...  do you have lyrics or something in comments?
09.18.44 #       <Bagder> that makes an average file path at 63 bytes
09.18.59 #       <hardeep> heh, right, nm... i'm dumb
09.19.21 #       <hardeep> actually, even 200k, how long would it take to copy, a few seconds?
09.19.45 #       <ricII> Bagder defining a kinda #include for the anonymous playlist would defer that task until user wants to save his playlist..
09.19.57 #       <Bagder> ah
09.19.59 #       <Bagder> good idea
09.20.32 #       <ricII> had a week to think about the concept :)
09.21.06 #       <hardeep> hmmm, wouldn't it be needed as soon as a user wants to temporarily add an entry to the playlist?
09.21.14 #       <hardeep> re: dynamic playlists
09.21.22 #       <Bagder> yes it would
09.21.41 #       <ricII> hardeep: no just make a new (temp) include file .. 
09.22.10 #       <hardeep> but how would you know where to insert the song in the playlist?
09.22.19 #       <hardeep> and remember it if the user wants to save
09.22.43 #       <ricII> appending to the end is easy..
09.22.56 #       <hardeep> sure, but how about inserting in the middle?
09.23.25 #       <ricII> inserting (after song playing, like queuing) change next song to #include
09.23.50 #       <hardeep> right, then you play the include, back to playlist, then a user inserts again
09.23.51 #       <ricII> include newsong+nextsong
09.24.09 #       <hardeep> so, say the playlist is 1 2 3 4 5
09.24.16 #       <hardeep> i insert a after 2 so
09.24.21 #       <hardeep> 1 2 A 3 4 5
09.24.25 #       <hardeep> then I insert b after 4
09.24.31 #       <hardeep> so 1 2 A 3 4 B 5
09.24.59 #       <hardeep> this is where this differs from queueing... queueing forgets the song as soon as it's played
09.25.29 #       <ricII> we would have 1 include_x 4 include_y 5 ..
09.26.19 #       <hardeep> hmmmm, so you'll be saving a bunch of small files and then merging at the end?
09.26.39 #       <hardeep> sounds kinda messy.... why not just copy to the anonymous and insert in place?
09.26.44 #       <ricII> but some sort of algo could see that if it changed include_x to "2 A 3 4 B" .
09.27.02 #       <ricII> hardeep in a 200k playlist?
09.27.22 #       <hardeep> sure, why not
09.27.58 #       <ricII> hardeep: well it could take some time...
09.28.23 #       <hardeep> question is how much
09.28.34 #       <hardeep> the copy could take time... i don't believe the insertions would
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09.29.52 #       <bobTHC> good morning all!
09.29.57 #       <ricII> but evertime a songs gets inserted a copy would be needed
09.30.12 #       <hardeep> morning bobTHC 
09.31.33 #       <bobTHC> do u think  H4x0r Language can be useable?
09.31.35 #       <dwihno> Bonjour, bob! :)
09.31.43 #       <bobTHC> bonjour
09.31.49 #       <ricII> but restrincing it to one include file could make things simpler, only needing a rewrite when user choises a new insert point
09.31.50 #       <hardeep> ricII: actually, yeah, you're right... ugly
09.32.16 #       <ricII> just like the queue
09.32.39 #       <hardeep> yeah, although queue is a very special case because it's only one insertion
09.33.52 Quit    laotan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09.34.21 #       <Zagor> i'm not too happy with always creating an on-disk playlist for dirplay.
09.34.51 #       <hardeep> Zagor: why not?
09.35.08 #       <Zagor> maybe i'm just superstitious, but I feel wary about writing files in normal playback use
09.35.24 #       <hardeep> ricII: sorry misread, yeah, restricting would be like queueing... could work
09.35.54 #       <ricII> Zagor queing is already doing that..
09.36.56 #       <Zagor> yes, but queueing is a special case. the user is doing more than simple playback.
09.37.09 #       <Zagor> it's just a gut feeling. maybe it will pass :)
09.37.17 #       <hardeep> hehe
09.37.30 #       <Bagder> get some coffee and you'll feel better ;-)
09.37.34 #       <ricII> wored about the fs code ?
09.37.36 #       <hardeep> it adds a lot of flexibility as well as simplifying the playlist code
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09.39.24 #       <Schnueff> moin
09.39.40 #       <hardeep> Zagor: question about the fs code.... would it be hard to add a mkdir function?
09.39.41 #       <ricII> maybe a proper diskcache (~40k) for the playlist
09.40.38 #       <Zagor> hardeep: not really. i've been meaning to do it
09.41.13 #       <hardeep> zagor: reason I ask is that my queue code assumes the .rockbox directory exists... thought it might make sense to create it if it doesn't
09.41.19 #       <Zagor> ricII: no, i'm not worried about the fs code. it's just that writing will always be more risky than reading, especially on a device that can be dropped at any moment
09.41.25 #       <Zagor> hardeep: right
09.41.26 #       <ricII> Zagor is there a total entries in the struc?
09.41.33 #       <Bagder> we should probably make .rockbox already on boot if missing
09.41.35 #       <^_Pro-289> if you incorporate an playlist maker, is it possible to search the ID3 tags, if any, for proper track order for those files which aren't labeled with a track #?
09.41.40 #       <Zagor> ricII: which struct?
09.41.42 #       <Bagder> make => create
09.42.04 #       <Bagder> ^_Pro-289: no, that will need a database created by a host computer
09.42.15 #       <^_Pro-289> ahhh..
09.42.34 #       <ricII> Zagor DIR
09.42.42 #       <Zagor> ^_Pro-289: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&group_id=44306&atid=439121&aid=613544
09.43.16 #       <Zagor> ricII: ah, no. a dir can be any size. it's just the browser that imposes a limit because it needs to sort
09.43.42 #       <ricII> to 'page' the dircache (and keeping the scroller happy)
09.44.23 #       <ricII> hmm sorting, forgot about that..
09.44.44 #       <Zagor> ricII: I have serious doubts about adding paging just to support >400 files
09.45.09 #       <ricII> right
09.47.01 #       <^_Pro-289> I've got my root directory aranged as ABCDE, FGHIJ, KLMNO, PQRST, UVWXYZ.  That way I minimize my initial scrolls to some of my 'P' artists for example.
09.48.12 #       <ricII> I happend to be there, trying to implement add dir to playlist.. (and reuse the code :( )
09.54.50 #       <ricII> Zagor: well, if the .rockbox is absent all 'could' be done in ram (meshingup the indices code)
09.55.15 #       <Zagor> nah, we should add mkdir(). users will want it anyway.
09.55.52 #       <Zagor> and I don't want two different dirplay algorithms.
09.56.03 #       <Zagor> i'll grab my coffee now :-)
09.56.12 #       <ricII> me too
09.57.34 #       <bobTHC> for the search algoithm Turbo bm is very quick on string http://www-igm.univ-mlv.fr/~lecroq/string/node15.html
09.59.19 Quit    hardeep ("[BX] Amount of time you people were funny: --51 minutes -54 seconds")
10.00.22 #       <Zagor> the challange of the id3 database is to make the database itself quickly searchable. multiple clever indices is probably a good way to start.
10.01.42 #       <bobTHC> a lot of mp3 doesn't have id3, file name will be indexed too...
10.02.09 #       <Zagor> yes
10.14.12 #       <adi|home> going to be expensive indexing an entire drive wont it?
10.14.20 #       <adi|home> or we talking on a directory to dir basis?
10.14.34 #       <Bagder> we talk about a program on the host PC doing that
10.14.45 #       <adi|home> nods
10.16.11 #       <bobTHC> the database builder on the host pc will be used each time u add/remove tracks ... not very easy.. but
10.16.47 #       <adi|home> got ya.
10.18.00 #       <ricII> I would still like the use the archos as an autonomous device
10.18.14 #       <ricII> It has a cpu :)
10.18.30 #       <Bagder> yeah, but it'll take *ages* to index a full drive
10.18.55 #       <bobTHC> 50h for building an entire 20gigs
10.18.56 #       <bobTHC> ?
10.19.19 #       <adi|home> well.. what we _could_ do...
10.19.21 #       <Zagor> we/someone could make the indexer as a dedicated .ajz/.mod, to be started by ROLO
10.19.27 #       <adi|home> index a dir at a users say so.
10.19.37 #       <adi|home> then store that in a file for future reference
10.20.00 #       <Zagor> adi|home: that will only fix the sorting issue, not searching.
10.20.07 #       <ricII> and still have the host app.
10.20.09 #       <adi|home> then compare the file date/timestamp to current time, and if older then x days, we can read hash
10.20.13 #       <Zagor> people simply want to browse a database instead of a file system
10.20.28 #       * adi|home nods
10.20.42 #       * dwihno wants to browse a file system!
10.20.56 #       * adi|home prefers a filesystem too
10.21.46 #       <ricII> Zagor matter of keeping y'r db uptodate eighter using the host pc or rolo, or update dir comand..
10.22.05 #       <Zagor> i like both, actually. it's kind of nice being able to tell it "play everything I have by John Williams" no matter where it's located
10.22.22 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10.22.38 #       <adi|home> someone have a link to the 2 forums for rockbox?
10.22.41 #       <adi|home> my bookmarks are dead
10.22.49 #       <adi|home> yahoo and the mp3forum one
10.22.50 #       <Bagder> we should link to them on the site
10.22.55 #       <ricII> Zagor: is use a /artist/album/ structure anyway..
10.23.10 #       <Bagder> http://forums.funmp3players.com/forum/forum.asp?forum_id=8&forum_title=General+%2D+Jukebox+Player%2FRecorder
10.24.07 #       <ricII> s/is/I/
10.24.09 #       <Zagor> ricII: yes, I have such a structure. but some artists tend to be featured on colletions etc that are not sorted under their dir. and sometimes I forget which genre i cataloged a specific artist in. those times, a database is nice.
10.24.54 #       <ricII> would be a cool function ;)
10.25.19 #       <ricII> like mp3tag editing...
10.25.30 #       <adi|home> so we would build the db on the host machine and store it on the archos for use?
10.26.52 #       <Bagder> yes
10.27.25 #       <ricII> the rolo-app & update dir could gome later..
10.27.45 #       <ricII> s/gome/come/  (I sould learn to type)
10.28.29 #       <Zagor> ricII: yeah, those are just for the autonomous-freaks in the crowd ;)
10.29.03 #       <Bagder> btw, is the Rockbox recorder charging algo at the Archos fm level by now? (thinking about that features list item)
10.29.40 #       <Zagor> Bagder: I believe so, yes
10.30.01 #       <Zagor> feature to add: battery time indicator
10.30.09 #       <Zagor> (that actually works!)
10.30.11 #       <Bagder> right, I remove that 100% feature
10.33.04 #       <adi|home> off the cuff quesiton...
10.33.12 #       <adi|home> anyone running journeling on a linux system?
10.33.30 #       <Bagder> on some, yes
10.33.34 #       <Zagor> I do, on several machines
10.34.06 #       <adi|home> okay.. did you clean install into a journeled system or did you have to convert from ext2?
10.34.11 #       <adi|home> im on ext2 on this machine...
10.34.15 #       <Zagor> I converted.
10.34.23 #       <adi|home> and id like to go either ext3 or reiser
10.34.29 #       <Zagor> converting to ext3 is a single command, takes <1s
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10.34.31 #       <adi|home> am i facing data loss?
10.34.33 #       <Bagder> going to ext3 is very easy
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10.34.42 #       <quelsaruk> hi
10.34.43 #       <Zagor> tune2fs -j /dev/hda1
10.34.44 #       <Bagder> you can even convert back 
10.35.10 #       <adi|home> ive read a bit about reiser, not so much about ext3...
10.35.20 #       <adi|home> any particular adv in one over the other?
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10.35.43 #       <Bagder> religious one basicly, afaik
10.35.51 #       <Bagder> ones
10.36.06 #       <Bagder> there's also JFS and XFS that do journalling ;-)
10.36.14 #       <Zagor> ext3 is nice since you don't need to backup/restore the disk to start using it
10.36.18 #       <adi|home> nods
10.36.31 #       <adi|home> well.. ext3 seems painless enough.. ill try that...
10.36.36 #       <adi|home> nods
10.37.09 #       <adi|home> Zagor can i assume i just run tune2fs on each of my mounted drives?
10.37.29 #       <Zagor> adi|home: umount them first, then run it on their partition
10.37.58 #       <adi|home> hmmm... how do i manage to do that without dropping the system?
10.37.59 #       <Bagder> dosfsck cores on me
10.38.01 #       <Bagder> nice
10.38.04 #       <adi|home> ie: /home
10.38.13 #       <adi|home>   /usr
10.38.14 #       <Zagor> or maybe you can even do it on a mounted fs. can't remember.
10.38.17 #       <adi|home>   /usr/local
10.38.30 #       <adi|home> off to man i go
10.39.02 #       <adi|home>  Never  use  tune2fs  to  change parameters of a read/write
10.39.02 #       <adi|home>        mounted filesystem!  Use this utility at  your  own  risk.
10.39.02 #       <adi|home>        You're modifying a filesystem!
10.39.35 #       <Bagder> YIKES
10.39.44 #       * Bagder mumbles curses on his archos
10.40.04 #       <Zagor> "The tune2fs program can add a journal to an existing ext2 file system without altering the data already on the partition. If the file system is already mounted while it is being transitioned, the journal will be visible as the file .journal in the root directory of the file system." http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-filesystem-ext3-convert.html
10.40.57 #       <Bagder> Checksum in long filename part wrong (d8 vs. expected 0c).
10.41.01 #       <Bagder>   Not auto-correcting this.
10.41.04 #       <Bagder> Segmentation fault
10.41.20 #       <Zagor> "You can do this on a mounted or an unmounted filesystem." -- http://panuganty.tripod.com/debiantips/filesystems.htm
10.41.36 #       <Zagor> Bagder: ouch. what did you do?
10.41.47 #       <Bagder> I copied files 
10.41.55 #       <Bagder> and noticed I got weird letters in some file names
10.42.02 #       <Bagder> I was wrong
10.42.08 #       <Bagder> they're WEEEEEIIIIIIRRRRDDD
10.42.28 #       <langhaarrocker> have the peak meter settings been removed from the RTC?
10.43.03 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: yes, moved to disk
10.44.01 #       <langhaarrocker> fine
10.46.03 #       <Zagor> "The Player however. MAY work if you could squeeze an entire cover into one of its character cells."
10.46.19 #       <Zagor> who ARE these people???
10.47.57 #       <Bagder> fat32 is that type b ?
10.48.06 #       <Bagder> "Win95 FAT32"
10.48.24 #       <Zagor> b or c
10.48.46 #       <Bagder> ah, right, now I noticed it was c before
10.53.51 #       <Bagder> mkfs -t vfat /dev/sda1
10.53.55 #       <Bagder> mkfs.vfat: Attempting to create a too large file system
10.54.18 #       <Zagor> how large is it?
10.54.25 #       <Bagder> 20GB
10.55.46 #       <adi|home> The Player however. MAY work if you could squeeze an 
10.55.46 #       <adi|home> entire cover into one of its character cells. If you really 
10.55.46 #       <adi|home> wanted you could even display multiple album covers side by 
10.55.46 DBUG    Enqueued KICK adi|home
10.55.46 #       <adi|home> side on the Player, and pick an album of your choice to listen 
10.55.46 #       <adi|home> to by selecting the respective cover
10.55.55 #       <adi|home> god.. i love these ppl
10.57.23 #       <Zagor> Bagder: odd. try mkdosfs -F 32 instead of mkfs.vat
10.57.44 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10.57.44 #       * adi|home is away: sleep
10.58.09 #       <Bagder> worked
10.58.15 #       <Bagder> weird programs
10.58.21 #       <Zagor> yeah
10.59.43 #       <Zagor> who's a lynx guru? how can I make it *not* column-justify text? I want simple old-fashion left-justification
11.00.38 #       <Bagder> hey, they worked hard for that feature! ;-)
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11.02.07 #       <Schnueff> hm
11.02.12 #       <Schnueff> #JUSTIFY:TRUE
11.02.24 #       <Schnueff> (is in my /etc/lynx.cfg)
11.03.21 #       <Zagor> ah, lookie
11.04.11 #       <Bagder> player code commits detected
11.06.58 Quit    TotMacher (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11.07.13 #       <dwihno> Any ideas about the scroll bugs?
11.09.14 #       <Zagor> dwihno: they happen too rarely to give me a clue
11.12.49 Join    TotMacher [0] (tot@ip67.rsidus.riege.de)
11.13.52 #       <langhaarrocker> Never had any scroll bugs. Are they described in some bug tracker?
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11.15.27 #       <dwihno> Zagor: they happen really often for me :-/
11.16.03 #       <dwihno> How many kilos is 4 ounces?
11.16.35 #>>     "convert 4 ounces" by Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
11.16.57 #>>     "has magic ninja powers" by Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
11.18.12 #       <langhaarrocker> you should port it to rockbox then.
11.18.20 #       <dwihno> :-)
11.18.26 #       <dwihno> magic ninja powah :)
11.19.34 #       <Bagder> lunch!
11.21.25 #       <dwihno> Already?
11.22.24 #       <langhaarrocker> Those swedish people are somehow early.
11.23.13 #       <dwihno> Yeah, those damn swedes ;)
11.24.38 #       <dwihno> Are Germany members of the EU?
11.25.23 #       <langhaarrocker> yes
11.25.26 #       <Schnueff> heh
11.26.07 #       <langhaarrocker> Even those in east germany... :)
11.26.31 #       <dwihno> :-)
11.26.58 #       <dwihno> So ordering stuff from Germany should not cause additional taxes if I decide to order something?
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12.02.14 #       <dwihno> langhaarrocker: respond, you evil dude! :)
12.02.56 #       <langhaarrocker> I have no idea. Never tried shipping anything across borders.
12.03.26 #       <dwihno> ah, mkay... :-)
12.06.47 #       <langhaarrocker> well - only from holland but there I paid no taxes ... :)
12.10.13 #       <Hes> Intra-EU => no taxes
12.12.06 #       <Hes> I regularly ship costly stuff around europe at work, and in the DHL shipping forms I check the box "Intra EC (in free circulation)" and no need to declare values
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12.22.26 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12.34.00 #       <dwihno> Hes: nice, very nice indeed.
12.35.10 #       <langhaarrocker> Hes: do you ship costly stuff from holland? :)
12.36.54 #       <dwihno> Holland is cool. Lots of duitsers
12.37.07 #       <Hes> Yes, one (last and big) shipment should arrive on sunday 8-)
12.38.05 #       <dwihno> What are you shipping?
12.38.22 #       <langhaarrocker> you mustn't ask that when it's about holland :)
12.39.05 #       <Hes> Computers and network equipment.
12.39.23 #       <langhaarrocker> That's boring. You can't smoke that.
12.40.20 #       <Hes> Yes you can, but I certainly don't like the smell of melted computer smoke in the machine room. Makes you nervous.
12.42.35 Join    pyvasene [0] (~pyvasene@62.4.7.201)
12.42.55 #       <langhaarrocker> Shooting the caps of elkos used to be fun. But you can't blow off the caps of modern elkos any more. :(
12.43.12 #       <dwihno> elkos?
12.43.28 #       <langhaarrocker> electrolythic condensators
12.43.42 #       <dwihno> sounds edible :)
12.44.55 #       <langhaarrocker> sorry: electrolythic capacitor should be the right term.
12.46.59 #       <langhaarrocker> When you overload them heavily they blow off like a sylvester cracker
12.56.52 Quit    bobTHC ("bye all good weekend")
13.05.53 Join    elinenbe3 [0] (trilluser@user-0cev121.cable.mindspring.com)
13.06.05 #       <elinenbe3> morining.
13.06.09 #       <Bagder> hi
13.06.46 #       <elinenbe3> what exactly are the benefits of Tocklatin?
13.06.51 Nick    elinenbe3 is now known as elinenbe (trilluser@user-0cev121.cable.mindspring.com)
13.07.20 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: national characters on the players
13.07.30 #       <dwihno> Sounds pretty funky :)
13.07.41 #       <Zagor> it is very funky
13.08.03 #       <elinenbe> Zagor: is there any limit to the number of characters now?
13.08.09 #       <Bagder> automatic definition of the few definable letters
13.08.10 #       <dwihno> I admire Kjell&Co for working on this.
13.08.33 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: the rocklatin code handles it automatically to show as many as possible
13.09.46 #       <dwihno> Rock, latin style :)
13.10.38 #       <dwihno> I guess the stock firmware doesn't do anything similar?
13.10.52 Nick    quel|out is now known as zak|out (~zaknafein@faerun.ugr.es)
13.10.54 #       <Bagder> you guessed right ;-)
13.10.59 Nick    zak|out is now known as quel|out (~zaknafein@faerun.ugr.es)
13.11.02 #       <quel|out> opss
13.11.04 #       <quel|out> :)
13.18.37 #       <dwihno> Bagder: You can call me Mr. Guess-dude ;-D
13.20.01 #       <Bagder> "the info display always says files are 128 even if they are higher" (a guy about the Archos firmware on FM20)
13.20.14 #       <Bagder> good old Archos ;-)
13.20.23 #       <Zagor> yeah I saw. odd bug to have in released software...
13.21.21 #       <dwihno> 128? Bitrate?
13.21.24 #       <Bagder> yes
13.21.29 #       <dwihno> Whoa. Massive.
13.21.45 #       <elinenbe> Massive Attack!
13.21.51 #       <dwihno> Where on the westcoast is Linus btw?
13.21.59 #       <Bagder> west
13.22.03 #       <Bagder> ;-)
13.22.13 #       <elinenbe> Linus is in USA?
13.22.16 #       * dwihno sends Bagder to Kladdes kebab
13.22.16 #       <Bagder> he's in Alingsås
13.22.27 #       <Bagder> elinenbe: no, swedish west coast
13.22.28 #       <elinenbe> blah.
13.22.36 #       <dwihno> Alingsås? For the kebab?
13.22.52 #       <Zagor> the things a man does for his kebab...
13.22.52 #       <kargatron> elinenbe, are you american? :)
13.22.53 #       <Bagder> dwihno: his inlaws lives there
13.23.18 #       <kargatron> reading 'west coast' yesterday, i couldn't help but immediately make the same assumption, until i realized many places have west coasts. :)
13.24.16 #       <dwihno> I made a quick trip to the west coast last weekend. Was pretty cool. No snow though :-(
13.25.05 #       <Zagor> the swedish "west coast" will be sued for trademark infringement soon ;)
13.25.42 #       <Bagder> the argument will be "we had a west coast first"
13.26.03 Join    webmind [0] (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl)
13.26.22 #       <elinenbe> anyone been skiing this winter yet?
13.26.23 #       <Zagor> lol
13.26.34 #       <Bagder> not yet
13.27.40 #       <dwihno> Soon! :D
13.30.53 #       <Bagder> bbl
13.30.55 Quit    Bagder ("http://daniel.haxx.se")
13.31.54 #       <dwihno> I tested the sleep timer last night btw, it worked like a charm :-)
13.32.04 Nick    Naked is now known as Hadaka (naked@aka.pp.htv.fi)
13.33.17 #       * langhaarrocker prefers Hadaka clothed
13.33.46 #       <Hadaka> no such luck I'm afraid
13.33.59 #       <Hadaka> hadaka is japanese and means... you guessed it... naked
13.34.44 #       <langhaarrocker> But it's winter here! You'll catch the flue!
13.34.46 #       <dwihno> The feature list contains an error.
13.34.58 #       <Zagor> dwihno: what?
13.35.02 #       <Hadaka> now who'd go outside in this weather? ;)
13.35.03 #       <dwihno> There's no snake game (*booohooo*), only Wormlet
13.35.08 #       <Hadaka> anyway, I'm off to work
13.35.23 #       <Zagor> hehe
13.35.35 #       <Zagor> snake-alike ;)
13.36.20 #       <langhaarrocker> There's been so much fuzz about this name that I really thought of renaming wormlet.
13.36.38 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: nah, don't bother. wormlet is a good name.
13.37.36 #       * dwihno wants Snake back!
13.37.41 #       <dwihno> :-(
13.39.12 #       <Zagor> dwihno: just fix the plugin code, and we'll be all set
13.39.42 #       <dwihno> It was in, and then you removed it! Just to provoke us Snake fans! :)
13.39.44 Quit    langhaarrocker (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13.40.12 #       <Zagor> it's called rehabilitation
13.40.15 #       <elinenbe> Zagor: just fix the plugin code?  has any plugin code been written?
13.40.22 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: no :-)
13.40.30 #       <dwihno> Windows XP will not format > 30 gb, right?
13.40.32 #       <elinenbe> that is quite a big fix then  :)
13.40.55 #       <Zagor> dwihno: that's what I've heard. you need a non-ms program to do it.
13.41.04 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: quite... :-)
14.04.50 #       <quel|out> this is incredible!!
14.04.56 #       <quel|out> it's snowing in Granada!!
14.05.37 #       <quel|out> 19years later.. we have snow again
14.05.39 #       <quel|out> :)
14.06.15 #       <dwihno> quel: we have snow, what's the big deal? ;)
14.06.45 #       <Zagor> quel|out: it was 19 years since you had snow??? poor you
14.07.38 #       <dwihno> quel|out: How do you do when you snowboard then? :-)
14.07.45 #       <quel|out> zagor not really
14.07.52 #       <quel|out> in Granada city
14.08.07 #       <quel|out> we have snow every year in Sierra nevada
14.08.14 Quit    Schnueff (Remote closed the connection)
14.08.20 #       <quel|out> just 30 km from Granada city
14.08.45 #       <quel|out> but 7 days before, we had here nearly 17ºC
14.09.01 #       <quel|out> so... try to understand me.. this is not sweden :)
14.09.41 #       <quel|out> we normally have the same weather that you had in Nerja, more or less....
14.09.51 #       <dwihno> :-)
14.09.55 #       <dwihno> Ford Granada!
14.10.17 #       <quel|out> :)
14.10.24 #       <dwihno> We had a Ford Granada.
14.10.31 #       <dwihno> It had a golden metallic shine
14.10.44 #       <dwihno> Then it broke, and we sold it to some poor bastard ;)
14.17.16 #       <ken0_> HEH
14.17.18 #       <ken0_> you guys
14.17.22 #       <ken0_> just have to see something
14.17.28 #       <quel|out> well, i'm going home for lunch
14.17.34 #       <ken0_> my live webcam
14.17.39 #       <ken0_> www.kenoweb.tk
14.17.43 #       <ken0_> link at bottom
14.17.50 #       <quel|out> ok
14.18.15 #       <quel|out> jajajajja
14.18.18 #       <quel|out> inteligent cat
14.18.20 #       <quel|out> :)
14.18.27 #       <kargatron> lol
14.18.29 #       <ken0_> He knows his stuff :)
14.18.30 #       <kargatron> that's great
14.18.52 #       <quel|out> cu!
14.18.57 Quit    quel|out ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
14.21.16 Join    Schnueff [0] (~mah@guestbook.cs.uni-sb.de)
14.22.28 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14.28.22 Part    ken0_
14.47.53 #       <elinenbe> bye
14.47.56 Part    elinenbe
15.21.21 Join    matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se)
15.22.04 Part    Zagor
15.22.20 Join    Zagor_ [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
15.32.24 #       <dwihno> Z Z Z Z!
15.58.41 Join    Bagder [241] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
16.00.53 #       <matsl> Bagder: hi
16.00.57 #       <Bagder> hej
16.03.02 #       * dwihno misses Linus :-/ There's nobody else to talk Kebab with :-(
16.04.22 #       <Bagder> poor you ;-)
16.05.36 #       <webmind> heh
16.10.16 #       <dwihno> And the scroll is still bugging *boohoo*
16.17.03 #       <Bagder> is there a bug report on that?
16.20.57 Join    quelsaruk [0] (~zaknafein@faerun.ugr.es)
16.21.30 #       <quelsaruk> hi
16.22.30 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16.23.50 Join    SPAdict [0] (~asdfklasd@pool-151-205-168-234.ny325.east.verizon.net)
16.23.53 #       <SPAdict> hey guys
16.24.05 #       <quelsaruk> yes?
16.24.27 #       <SPAdict> do you guys know where the batteries are located in the fm recorder and how I can replace them?
16.24.52 #       <dwihno> It's some kind of special batteries.
16.25.10 #       <quelsaruk> they are inside... and i think its a ion-Li batterie
16.25.11 #       <Bagder> they're not replacable
16.25.32 #       <SPAdict> hmmm...
16.25.54 #       <Zagor_> it's a LiIon battery. it's replacable, but you can't buy a replacement.
16.25.54 Nick    Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
16.26.13 #       <Zagor> it's a custom made battery. you can't get them anywhere.
16.26.18 #       <Bagder> you can buy a new FM and get it from that ;-)
16.26.29 #       <Zagor> and archos won't sell you a new one either (people have asked)
16.26.29 #       <SPAdict> is it under that cover at the top that can be popped off?
16.26.46 #       <Zagor> SPAdict: it's not designed to be replaced
16.26.51 #       <SPAdict> ok
16.27.12 #       <SPAdict> what happened is that i was charging the player while listening to music on it
16.27.23 #       <SPAdict> after half an hour, i noticed that it was very hot
16.27.27 #       <SPAdict> the ac adapter too
16.27.41 #       <dwihno> Zagor: Darn! Archos are so evil! :(
16.27.51 #       <SPAdict> after using it until the batteries drained, i tried charging it
16.27.57 #       <Zagor> SPAdict: the adapter archos US ships isn't very nice
16.27.59 #       <SPAdict> it goes to the charging screen
16.28.11 #       <SPAdict> and after a few seconds it says it's charged
16.28.45 #       <quelsaruk> SPAdict: maybe archos will change your fm recorder 
16.29.07 #       <SPAdict> i emailed tech support today
16.29.17 #       <dwihno> SPAdict: did you get an answer?
16.29.18 #       <SPAdict> but the problem is that i have all my music on the player
16.30.16 #       <SPAdict> i just emailed them, so no
16.30.49 #       <Bagder> having music on the archos only is not a very lasting way of doing things
16.31.01 #       <SPAdict> with every passing day i realize what a bad purchase archos is
16.31.15 #       <kargatron> we all love ours! :)  but sympathies for bad luck...
16.31.25 #       <SPAdict> the day i bought it, it froze that same evening!
16.31.26 #       <Bagder> I've had a lot of fun with mine
16.31.43 #       <Bagder> but then I can use Rockbox ;-)
16.32.10 #       <SPAdict> from what i read online, i have yet to experience some of the nastier problems
16.32.55 #       <SPAdict> oh well
16.33.37 #       <quelsaruk> SPAdict: sorry to hear that, i can only say that i have my recorder for 1 1/2 yeras, and it works fine.. and i love rockbox :)
16.34.02 #       <SPAdict> i realized that i should have skipped on the FM part and just got the simple recorder
16.34.58 #       <SPAdict> well, thanks for the help. enjoy your players!
16.35.03 #       <SPAdict> bye
16.35.06 Quit    SPAdict ()
16.44.42 #       <matsl> Zagor: I confess there is more to USB than I know! USB-Mode! In USB-mode the battery indicator is visible.
16.45.15 #       <Zagor> matsl: yeah, that's what I though
16.45.20 #       <Zagor> thought
16.46.26 #       <matsl> Zagor: The usb-screen I thought you meant was the onme you get when connecting the cable and then turning the power on....
16.46.37 #       <matsl> but that one is controlled by hardware, isn't it?
16.47.08 #       <Zagor> matsl: not hardware, but the archos firmware
16.47.16 Join    edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAADCB.dip.t-dialin.net)
16.47.23 #       <Zagor> almost the same :-)
16.47.36 #       <matsl> jupp
16.47.53 #       <matsl> if it can't be programmed, it's hardware!
16.48.06 #       <Zagor> hehe. like MS Windows
16.49.56 #       <dwihno> I think the "news" should cover Rocklatin as well.
16.50.04 #       <Zagor> agreed
16.50.18 #       <dwihno> Awesome work :-)
16.50.55 #       <Zagor> indeed
16.51.22 Nick    edx is now known as edx`afk (~edx@pD9EAADCB.dip.t-dialin.net)
17.05.35 Nick    dwihno is now known as dw|gone (dwihno@h193180246067.kommunicera.umea.se)
17.15.48 Join    mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@69.2.235.2)
17.22.54 Quit    Schnueff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17.23.58 Quit    mecraw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17.32.16 Join    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] [0] (~awdyf@200.202.226.234)
17.32.28 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> hi peoples
17.32.34 #       <Bagder> hey
17.32.54 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> h0h0
17.32.59 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> laeful
17.33.01 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> lawful
17.33.30 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> i`m dont know speak in english very well
17.33.31 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> haha
17.33.38 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> i`m brazilian
17.34.51 DBUG    Enqueued KICK CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]
17.34.51 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> 3,00:2,00)
17.34.51 #       <quelsaruk> eu falo português, mais o menos
17.34.56 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> aaa
17.34.59 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> q massa!!
17.35.07 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> pvt
17.36.43 #       <quelsaruk> pvt?
17.36.52 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> ham
17.41.26 #       <MrSnazz> mmm, ham
17.42.30 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> hehe
17.44.46 #       <Zagor> i'm off. see you
17.44.47 Part    Zagor
17.55.11 Quit    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] ("fui daki a poco eu volto")
17.57.43 Join    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] [0] (~awdyf@200.202.226.234)
18.11.38 DBUG    Enqueued KICK CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]
18.11.38 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> »¡«Scøøp MP3»!« 01,00 [Ouvindo:01,00 Useless ID - Another bad taste.mp3 ]
18.12.26 #       <MrSnazz> ugh
18.13.30 #       <MrSnazz> cap: which track is after that one?
18.13.58 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> I??
18.14.17 #       <MrSnazz> Yes
18.14.20 #       <quelsaruk> que cancion va depois ?
18.14.30 #       <quelsaruk> MrSnazz: he doesnt speak english
18.14.37 #       <quelsaruk> just portuguesse
18.14.38 #       <quelsaruk> :)
18.14.43 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> hehe
18.14.44 #       <MrSnazz> quelsaruk: ahh, thanks :)
18.14.50 #       <quelsaruk> and i dont' speak portuguesse quite well
18.14.56 #       <quelsaruk> :)
18.15.09 #       <MrSnazz> que trilha é seguinte?
18.15.16 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> ahnn
18.15.17 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> hehe
18.15.43 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> I speak English more or less
18.16.02 #       <MrSnazz> eu amo essa cancao, ele lembro-me de minha mae da cabra 
18.16.19 #       <quelsaruk> i must reboot
18.16.21 #       <quelsaruk> cu!
18.16.31 Quit    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18.16.37 Quit    quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
18.16.55 Join    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] [0] (~awdyf@200.202.226.234)
18.17.21 DBUG    Enqueued KICK CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]
18.17.21 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> 3,00=2,00/
18.17.23 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> I am with a translating here
18.17.25 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> hehe
18.17.27 #       <MrSnazz> hehe
18.18.05 #       <MrSnazz> voce tem o queijo?
18.18.14 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> que?
18.18.15 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> queijo?
18.18.16 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> auhiaha
18.18.21 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> aki tem queijo sim
18.18.22 #       <MrSnazz> :)
18.18.27 #       <ricII> webmind ?
18.19.28 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> I have q go although
18.19.31 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> bye
18.19.57 #       <MrSnazz> bye 
18.19.57 Nick    mecraw_ is now known as mecraw (~mecraw@69.2.235.2)
18.20.14 Join    hardeep [0] (hardeeps@208.247.65.237)
18.20.24 ***     Alert Mode level 1
18.20.24 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> »¡«Scøøp MP3»!« 01,00 [Ouvindo:01,00 Jason - Meu talento de afastar as pessoas.mp3 ]
18.21.00 #       <CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr]> fuis
18.21.10 Quit    CaPeTaO_HC[Gtr] (Client Quit)
18.21.14 Join    quelsaruk [0] (~zaknafein@faerun.ugr.es)
18.21.20 #       <quelsaruk> hi again
18.22.25 #       <hardeep> hi quelsaruk
18.22.32 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18.22.38 #       <quelsaruk> hi hardeep :)
18.27.53 #       <quelsaruk> hardeep: do you know if hardeep comes here?
18.27.56 #       <quelsaruk> sorry
18.27.59 #       <quelsaruk> no hardeep
18.28.00 #       <quelsaruk> uwe
18.28.02 #       <quelsaruk> :)
18.28.05 #       <quelsaruk> if uwe comes here
18.30.25 ***     Alert Mode OFF
18.30.45 #       <hardeep> quelsaruk: yeah, he does... i think he uses the nick "thebreaker"
18.31.14 #       <quelsaruk> thx hardeep :)
18.37.30 Quit    Bagder ("http://daniel.haxx.se")
18.39.12 #       <ricII> hardeep: may I assume that the unified playlist idea is kinda approved ?
18.39.40 #       <hardeep> it sounded like zagor gave his approval,,,
18.40.12 #       <ricII> it would surly simplify the code...
18.40.27 #       <hardeep> definitely
18.41.16 #       <hardeep> ricII: btw, i was thinking more on your include idea and I think you're right... multiple includes may be the best approach
18.41.53 #       <ricII> depends on the 'costs' of a copy..
18.42.07 Ctcp    Ignored 3 channel CTCP requests in 42 minutes and 30 seconds at the last flood
18.42.07 #       * matsl is away: I'm busy
18.42.24 #       <hardeep> yeah
18.42.47 #       <hardeep> oh, one thing that needs to be considered is resume...
18.46.33 #       <ricII> how is that handled in suffle mode ?
18.47.12 #       <hardeep> we remember the random seed that was used for shuffling so, when we resume, it's the same shuffle
18.47.22 #       <ricII> aha
18.47.59 #       <ricII> but that wouldn't work with a dynamic growing playlist
18.48.38 Quit    pyvasene ()
18.49.16 #       <hardeep> i think it could...
18.49.45 #       <hardeep> if the user says insert, then you insert immediately after the current song playing
18.50.21 #       <hardeep> with your include files... this should work irrespective of shuffle mode
18.50.33 Part    Asskick
18.50.36 #       <hardeep> the funkier case is if a user switches between shuffle modes
18.54.14 #       <ricII> but how about append in shuffle mode this would mean move the remainder to the include and shuffle with the current seed.
18.57.45 #       <hardeep> i don't quite follow....  with append you want to play the track after the playlist is done right?
18.58.06 #       <hardeep> in that case, the shuffle mode wouldn't matter
18.58.37 #       <ricII> yes, unless we are in shuffle mode, the remain part would would be reshuffled 
19.00.02 #       <ricII> like also (+) play these songs in random order.
19.00.36 #       <hardeep> heh, right, that case is more difficult
19.02.09 #       <ricII> we will need to sepperate whats aready played & append the new stuff, then reshuffle with the same seed. 
19.02.32 #       <hardeep> that wouldn't make it through resume
19.03.02 #       <ricII> why, all 'new' stuff is moved to a include.
19.03.22 #       <hardeep> ah right, yeah, it could work
19.03.23 #       <quelsaruk> i'm going home
19.03.35 #       <quelsaruk> till monday!
19.04.09 #       <hardeep> bye quelsaruk
19.04.42 #       <ricII> defeating our non-copy attempts..
19.05.04 #       <hardeep> well, it's a pretty extreme case... dunno how often you would be doing that
19.05.29 Part    quelsaruk (""Eve's Avatar - Avatar's Eve"")
19.06.19 #       <ricII> some preformace info would be nice. 
19.06.33 #       <ricII> on filecopy..
19.07.33 Quit    adi|home (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19.07.33 NSplit  calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
19.07.33 Quit    webmind (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19.07.33 Quit    meshuga (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19.07.33 Quit    MrSnazz (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19.07.33 Quit    adi|work (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19.07.57 #       <ricII> maybe we are discussing just ms ..
19.08.55 NHeal   calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
19.08.55 NJoin   webmind [0] (webmind@seal.student.utwente.nl)
19.08.55 NJoin   adi|home [0] (~adiamas@as5300-11.216-194-24-180.nyc.ny.metconnect.net)
19.08.55 NJoin   meshuga [0] (firewall@12-211-38-165.client.attbi.com)
19.08.55 NJoin   MrSnazz [0] (~jmc@e-64-35-146-236.empnet.net)
19.08.55 NJoin   adi|work [0] (~adiamas@dogwood.vport.net)
19.11.18 #       <hardeep> gotta run
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22.36.13 #       <EGM92> Hey I'm having a problem with the Jb 6000 and the new daily build, when I play a song, it sometimes freezes, well the sonud stops but the timer keeps going when ti goes to change song, there is no sound until i restart the JB
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22.41.00 #       <hardeep> EGM92: did it only start happening with the new daily build?
23.06.27 #       <EGM92> yes
23.06.43 #       <EGM92> I tried the v1.4 and I don't get that problem
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23.07.54 #       <void_> rockbox rules
23.07.57 #       <void_> just like to say
23.08.28 #       <hardeep> void_: agreed. :)
23.08.38 #       <void_> I just got my archos today
23.08.52 #       <hardeep> EGM92: hmmm, there have been many changes since 1.4.  Post a bug.
23.08.52 #       <void_> I traded in my classic chd500 (what a piece of junk)
23.09.19 #       <hardeep> EGM92: include all information about your player and also provide a file that reproduces the bug
23.10.08 #       <EGM92> ok
23.10.14 #       <EGM92> how do i do that?
23.10.48 #       <hardeep> EGM92: from the rockbox main page->bug reports
23.11.22 #       <hardeep> EGM92: at the bottom there are instructions on posting new bugs... please provide all the information it lists
23.11.49 #       <hardeep> EGM92: it's important that you include the file that reproduces the problem... makes it a lot easier to debug
23.12.16 #       <EGM92> None 5 nobody mp3 play stops mid-song 2002-10-17 16:52
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23.12.23 #       <EGM92> how do i know if that isn't my problem>?
23.13.14 #       <hardeep> read the full description and comments
23.13.36 #       <hardeep> if it does sound sound like your bug, post a comment
23.13.47 #       <hardeep> providing your information
23.14.51 #       <EGM92> YEP ITS MY PROBLEM too
23.15.25 #       <hardeep> that bug report is for the 1.4 release... you said your problem only happens in the daily build
23.15.48 #       <EGM92> oh ok so since its a new build i have to make a new post?
23.16.28 #       <hardeep> only if it's a different bug... you claimed this bug doesn't happen in 1.4 which implies it's not the same as that bug report
23.17.37 #       <EGM92> k
23.17.47 #       <EGM92> what was yesterdays build?
23.18.19 #       <hardeep> hmmmm?
23.20.22 #       <EGM92> Hey I got a question what to Stack usagemean?
23.21.56 #       <ricII> I also noticed freezes with playback on the recorder (can't reproduce)
23.22.03 #       * matsl is back (gone 04:39:56)
23.23.20 #       <hardeep> ricII: are you using the peakmeter or have multiple lines scrolling in the wps?
23.23.37 #       <ricII> peakmeter..
23.23.41 #       <hardeep> ricII: it could be a performance issue with those features and high bitrate mp3s
23.24.06 #       <ricII> could well be, al mp3 are vbr min 192kb
23.24.42 #       <hardeep> ricII: although, I can't say i've ever seen any problems on AJBR6 with high peakmeter mode and avg 256kb vbr mp3s
23.25.29 #       <ricII> pause is also delayed sometimes..
23.29.35 #       <hardeep> best would be if you could find a reproduceable case
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23.44.04 #       <ricII> howabout support for fonts < 8px ?
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23.58.21 #       <ricII> hmm, a lot of changes in lcd(-recorder).c 
23.58.51 #       <LinusN> EGM92: Stack Usage is how much stack space each thread uses