--- Log for 17.01.103  Server: brunner.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16p1  Started: 1 day and 2 hours ago

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08.52.50 #       <Bagder> morning
08.54.42 #       <matsl> hi ho!
08.55.16 #       <Bagder> no cvs yet I see
08.55.51 #       <matsl> apparently not
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08.57.23 #       <dwihno> No CVS :~(
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09.51.54 #       <Bagder> "Accord. to posts on the IPOD forum at Yahoo, the Li-Ion cell cannot be replaced"
09.52.36 Join    Zagor_ [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09.52.43 #       <Bagder> morning Z
09.52.51 Nick    Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09.52.51 #       <Zagor> hi
09.53.11 #       <Bagder> zodd: if you update the rockbox site (head.t updated) the blimp image is fixed
09.53.20 #       <Bagder> zodd ? Zagor I meant ;-)
09.53.34 #       <Zagor> wow, I got a spam which actually tells me where they harvested my address!
09.53.41 #       <Bagder> wow
09.53.41 #       <Zagor> Bagder: :)
09.53.50 #       <Bagder> and where did they get it?
09.53.53 #       <Zagor> "Own your Hong Kong Fax Line"
09.53.56 #       <Zagor> advogato
09.54.00 #       <Bagder> ugh
09.54.25 #       <Bagder> yeah advogato users are more likely to want hong kong fax lines ;-)
09.54.32 #       <matsl> Zagor: One problem with MENU-OFF as cancel in rename. I'll wind up in the menu system and not in the dir browser. What can be done?
09.54.33 #       <Zagor> hehe
09.54.54 #       <Zagor> matsl: i'll take a look
09.55.11 #       <Bagder> isn't that because of a left-over key-release event?
09.55.19 #       <Bagder> or something like that
09.55.29 #       <Zagor> yes
09.55.29 #       <matsl> probably. still very annoying
09.55.58 #       <Zagor> I don't see how it can happen. you should only get left-over MENU|RELEASED. the menu triggers on MENU only
09.55.58 #       <Bagder> right, but you can wait for the release before you bail out
09.56.24 #       <Bagder> uh
09.56.44 #       <Bagder> well, he can release the off *before* the menu
09.56.58 #       <Bagder> won't that give a menu-only release then?
09.59.55 #       * matsl is away: I'm busy
10.02.23 #       <Bagder> "Admin of www.FunMP3Players.com" is a rockbox user too ;-)
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10.06.03 #       <quelsaruk> good morning
10.06.15 #       <Bagder> morning
10.06.54 #       <Schnueff> moin
10.10.48 #       <Zagor> Bagder: yes, but menu_release is harmless. it's menu_press that activates the menu.
10.10.57 #       <Bagder> ah, ok
10.10.59 #       <Zagor> i don't see how that event is generated
10.13.31 #       <quelsaruk> if you queue a song, but continue pressing the "play" button, you get that file queued some more times, i think that if you have a file queued and want to repeat it, just select the repeat one function. So the Queue should ignore the play button if that files is the last in the queue, or not?
10.14.34 #       <Bagder> the queue-a-file function is moved to another key soonish anyway
10.14.57 #       <Zagor> it
10.15.06 #       <quelsaruk> ok
10.15.10 #       <Zagor> 's already moved. just the daily build aren't working
10.15.15 #       <Bagder> ah, right
10.15.49 #       <quelsaruk> was just a thought... today i kept the play button pressed and had the same file queued 4 times
10.22.59 #       <Zagor> how do I convert a hex string to a number in perl?
10.23.59 #       <Bagder>     print hex '0xAf'; # prints '175'
10.24.06 #       <Zagor> ah
10.24.31 #       <Zagor> silly. i read that same page, but interpreted it as the opposite :-)
10.25.19 #       <Bagder> hehe
10.25.28 #       <Bagder> get a cup of coffee!
10.25.41 #       <Zagor> i will
10.48.02 #       <quelsaruk> an off-topic question, does anyone knows of a metallic structure made of Hadfield Steel?
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10.52.24 #       <Zagor> quelsaruk: playing trivial pursuit? ;)
10.52.58 #       <quelsaruk> nop
10.52.59 #       <quelsaruk> :)
10.53.36 #       <quelsaruk> i want to talk today of hadfield steel in class, but i can't remember any structure made of hadfield steel
10.53.44 #       <Schnueff> whats hadfield steel
10.54.10 #       * Bagder decides that quelsaruk is mad for real ;-)
10.55.25 #       <quelsaruk> Austenitic steel. It can't be found normally except if it has more than 12% Mn. It's really hard. And no-magnetic
10.55.43 #       <quelsaruk> Bagder: im *mad*, but i thought you all knew that 
10.55.44 #       <quelsaruk> :)
10.55.53 #       <Zagor> m..mm.mmm.mmaaad
10.56.14 #       <quelsaruk> I really love that steel
10.56.33 #       <quelsaruk> i mean... for me it's the best steel ever made, and also the most expensive
10.57.33 #       <quelsaruk> i could talk a lot about steel.. but it's coffee time :)
10.57.36 #       <quelsaruk> cu later
10.57.51 #       <quelsaruk> time to wake up!
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10.58.24 #       <Bagder> bbl
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11.19.51 Join    langhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@212-204-020-146.dsl1.versanet.de)
11.20.45 #       <langhaarrocker> Have you seen that before: Zagor isn't the last in the list!
11.24.17 #       <Zagor> hehe
11.24.31 #       <Zagor> zodd conquered the coveted last place :-)
11.42.31 #       <langhaarrocker> The rockbox homepage is a liar:
11.42.31 #       <langhaarrocker> "Recent CVS activity: No changes"
11.42.36 #       <Zagor> :-)
11.52.37 #       <dwihno> There is no CVS! (Matrix ripoff)
11.52.58 #       <dwihno> If you see the truth, you will find out it's not the CVS that's bending, but the Rockbox!
11.55.14 #       <langhaarrocker> what's a Matrix ripoff?
11.56.45 #       <dwihno> There is no CVS
11.56.57 #       <dwihno> Seen the Matrix?
11.57.03 #       <dwihno> There is no spoon blahblah
12.24.40 Join    kargatis [0] (~Vincent@ppp17-250.ath.forthnet.gr)
12.27.14 #       <kargatis> Zagor, i replied to your bookmark email - I do hope you'll reconsider.  I think your suggestions make a very simple desire very clunky to get done (regarding multi-resume)
12.31.23 #       <Zagor> i believe quite the opposite. i'm responding now.
12.31.38 #       <Zagor> you mix up resume and bookmarks. i don't like that.
12.31.55 #       <kargatis> it's not about mixing up - it's about usage
12.33.00 #       <Zagor> resume and bookmarks are two separate features
12.33.10 #       <kargatis> i can't understand how the benfits of resume are apparent, but multi-resume isn't.  It's the same action, just on multiple playlists rather than a single one.
12.33.37 #       <Zagor> that's because you mix resume and bookmark
12.33.47 #       <kargatis> insteda of reading one book, you're reading several.  the simple desire to return where you left off doesn't change.
12.33.55 #       <Zagor> the whole purpose of resume is to resume where you shut off
12.34.19 #       <Zagor> bookmarks is for reading several books. not resume.
12.34.32 #       <kargatis> this is semantics, no?
12.34.37 #       <Zagor> not really
12.34.45 #       <Zagor> i want to keep them separate, you want to mix them
12.34.46 #       <kargatis> i'm talking about the simplicity of the returning action.
12.35.01 #       <Zagor> yes. and we have it equally simple.
12.35.10 #       <kargatis> actually, all I want is a feature that's easy to use
12.35.40 #       <kargatis> using bookmarks as you describe is very tedious.
12.35.44 #       <Zagor> why?
12.36.22 #       <kargatis> for the same reason that it would be tedious to use bookmarks instead of the current resume.
12.36.25 #       <kargatis> let's say there's no resume
12.36.43 #       <Zagor> you can't compare resume and bookmarks
12.36.47 #       <Zagor> really
12.36.54 #       <kargatis> usage-wise, certainly you can
12.37.15 #       <Zagor> no. because auto-bookmarks will insert 5-second delays for everything you do
12.37.25 #       <Zagor> resume does not
12.37.56 #       <Zagor> that's also why multi-resume is not the same as todays resume
12.38.10 #       <kargatis> but creating and later starting at a bookmark takes a lot longer than 5 seconds!
12.38.50 #       <Zagor> why would it?
12.38.59 #       <Zagor> example: F2+PLAY creates a bookmark
12.39.21 #       <Zagor> when you restart the file, it asks if you want to resume at it. you press PLAY. done. 0.32 seconds wasted.
12.40.01 #       <kargatis> i thought you had to PLAY, then go into the menu and choose resume-bookmark
12.40.19 #       <kargatis> "Play the mp3 file as normal. Then choose Resume From Bookmark (button or menu option)"
12.40.28 #       <Zagor> play the .bmark file then
12.40.34 #       <Zagor> same thing
12.41.12 #       <Zagor> but I guess asking about bookmarks can be done when playing the .mp3 file too. that's not a major issue for me.
12.42.16 #       <kargatis> but if you have that function, then what's the difference between when creating, F2+PLAY vs an automatic creation on STOP (based on config choice)
12.42.45 #       <kargatis> i mean, F2+PLAY will take the same time, since it's writing the file.
12.43.00 #       <Zagor> yes. the difference is I do it when I want it. not always or never.
12.43.21 #       <kargatis> well, with auto=off, that would be the case.
12.43.34 #       <kargatis> but for users like me who almost always want it, it makes life much easier
12.44.18 #       <Zagor> I can live with that.
12.44.25 #       <Zagor> so we have both then
12.44.35 #       <kargatis> absolutely - i never thought to suggest otherwise
12.44.59 #       <Zagor> ok, i guess I misread you
12.45.17 #       <kargatis> i was just arguing against dumping autobookmarks
12.45.29 #       <kargatis> not forcing their use
12.45.37 #       <Zagor> i didn't see any mention of any other way to create them
12.45.42 #       <Zagor> but ok, we agree now
12.45.49 #       <Zagor> just don't call it multi-resume :-)
12.46.33 #       <kargatis> i was just  trying to link the desire of resume to the concept of bookmarks, usage-wise.
12.47.07 #       <kargatis> i didn't mention bookmark management because it was already being discussed and planned, and wasn't relevant to autobm
12.47.16 #       <Zagor> ok. I think it is good to talk about them separately, to avoid confusion
12.47.48 #       <kargatis> in any case, if we agree, that's great - autobookmarking is the single unimplemented function I would use constantly
12.48.04 #       <Zagor> i'll write a new mail to the list
12.48.16 #       <quel|out> Zagor: i have the answer for our "trivial pursuit" question, it's used in railways connections ( I won) :D
12.48.59 #       <Zagor> quel|out: hehe
12.50.19 #       <quel|out> i had to search in a lot of books
12.50.22 #       <quel|out> :)
12.50.37 #       <quel|out> well, gotta go to repair my poor car
12.51.05 #       <Zagor> kargatis: how does auto-bookmark work, in practice? say you have two bookmarks on a file, and then press STOP. is a third created?
12.51.06 #       <quel|out> this winter is very hard for its little heart
12.51.17 #       <Zagor> quel|out: bah, you have no winter ;)
12.51.22 #       <quel|out> really?
12.51.31 #       <quel|out> well... this year we have
12.51.37 #       <Zagor> just kidding
12.51.38 #       <kargatis> Zagor, that's why the 'resume' top line that ben talked about made sense to me.
12.52.03 #       <kargatis> i.e., the auto-one created is always the one that auto looks at on start
12.52.07 #       <quel|out> -5ºC is *winter* for me ;) In sweden you have really extreme winter. :)
12.52.17 #       <kargatis> the other bookmarks would be available thru regular bm management
12.52.23 #       <Zagor> kargatis: ok, sounds good
12.53.12 #       <quel|out> bbl!
12.53.16 #       <kargatis> btw "asking about bookmarks can be done when playing the .mp3 file too. that's not a major issue for me."  it is for me - i would prefer being able to PLAY the playlist, and asked to resume where i left off.
12.53.36 #       <kargatis> to me, that seems very natural (with auto=on)
12.54.07 #       <Zagor> ok
12.54.08 #       <langhaarrocker> I once started a gui for a split editor - Do you think it might be a good idea to mix the things? Like you create bookmarks and split at those positions?
12.54.22 #       <Zagor> langhaarrocker: nah, i doubt it
12.54.35 #       <Zagor> splitting is more precision work than bookmarks
12.55.25 #       <langhaarrocker> I thought something like you open the split editor only if you want to fine-tune the bookmark position.
12.56.27 #       <Zagor> i think it is better to keep them separated. make it so the split editor can read .bmark files for input, but don't make too much integration. i.e don't rely on it.
12.57.25 #       <langhaarrocker> ok . Currently I have no spare time to complete that task anyway.
12.58.13 #       <Zagor> ok
12.59.02 #       <langhaarrocker> I need a job with daily train travels again ... :)
13.03.58 #       <Zagor> hehe
13.11.00 #       <dwihno> How fast is GPRS?
13.11.14 #       * dwihno wants to SSH using GPRS yaman! :-)
13.19.27 ***     No seen item changed, no save performed.
13.45.48 #       <Zagor> lunch
13.46.54 #       <kargatis> Zagor, latest bookmark email is perfect.  thx
13.49.35 #       * matsl is back (gone 03:49:38)
13.51.08 Join    Bagder [0] (~dast@titan.contactor.se)
13.51.13 #       <Bagder> moo
13.53.14 #       <dwihno> Moo moo!
13.54.02 #       <dwihno> My CVS addiction is getting bothersome! Isn't there a way to read the changes?!
13.54.14 #       <Bagder> there is
13.54.21 #       <Bagder> but I'd rather avoid the work-arounds
13.56.29 #       <dwihno> hm
13.56.35 #       <dwihno> *sob*
14.06.32 #       <langhaarrocker> who is the bad gui that broke the cvs?
14.06.52 #       * Bagder says nothing but looks at dwihno...
14.06.59 #       * Bagder grins evilish
14.07.37 #       * dwihno LUVS CVS
14.08.15 #       <langhaarrocker> only when working
14.08.56 #       <dwihno> I want to see what has changed! :(
14.09.06 #       <dwihno> Even the daily builds are non-changed for 3 dayus
14.10.27 #       <langhaarrocker> -> lets change them to weekly builds? ;)
14.11.04 #       <dwihno> baah
14.12.40 #       <langhaarrocker> seriously: has Sourceforge done the evil things or has someone configured cvs broken?
14.13.50 #       <dwihno> Aren't there any CVS commit mails, Bagder?
14.14.03 #       <Bagder> yes there are
14.14.46 #       <langhaarrocker> Do I have to commit the patches manually now?
14.15.08 #       <Schnueff> is the world going to end?
14.15.09 #       <langhaarrocker> (from the cvs mails to my source tree)
14.15.14 #       <Bagder> its only the anonymouse cvs that doesn't work
14.15.53 #       <langhaarrocker> But I'm not anonymous - I know me!
14.16.15 #       <Bagder> if you use the cvs over ssh, then it still works fine
14.16.21 #       <dwihno> Bagder: sum up the changes for us! :)
14.16.49 #       <Bagder> today: Zagor's font fixes for iso8859-2
14.17.04 #       <Bagder> today: Zagor's wps exit button fix
14.17.25 #       <dwihno> Erasing dirs still not good? :)
14.17.27 #       <Bagder> yday: my commits fixing the FM build
14.17.42 #       <Bagder> yday: elinenbe fixed the undo in Sokoban
14.17.50 #       <Bagder> yday: I added the NODO document
14.18.19 #       <Bagder> jan 15: hardeep fixed a resume-ask-once bug
14.18.28 #       <Bagder> who needs automatic scripts? ;-)
14.18.38 #       <Zagor> dwihno: you can't erase dirs. the button is disabled if you have selected a dir
14.19.35 #       <langhaarrocker> Let's announce Bagder as our cvs frontende!
14.19.54 #       <quel|out> bagder... and jan 14?
14.19.59 #       <quel|out> ;)
14.20.12 #       <dwihno> Zagor: Erasing files is safe too?
14.20.27 #       * Bagder broke down
14.20.31 #       <dwihno> Bagder: thank you! :D
14.20.36 #       <dwihno> Bagder: You rule!
14.20.45 #       <quel|out> can we erasa files??
14.20.51 #       <quel|out> erase
14.20.51 #       <Zagor> dwihno: yes
14.20.58 #       <Bagder> quel|out: yes
14.21.01 #       <quel|out> why? when ? how? 
14.21.05 #       * langhaarrocker threats Bagder with a kiss of life
14.21.27 #       <Bagder> quel|out: get the latest CVS, press ON+play in the dir browser
14.22.06 #       <quel|out> the latest cvs is the one at your website? or can we dowmload it from rockbox?
14.22.14 #       <quel|out> *download
14.22.28 #       <dwihno> Zagor: how can you be sure? :)
14.22.44 #       <quel|out> i'm really analphabet these days
14.22.59 #       <Zagor> dwihno: well, it works for me
14.22.59 #       <Bagder> quel|out: there's nowhere to download it while the cvs is down
14.24.04 #       <dwihno> Zagor: No file system breakups or so?
14.24.24 #       * dwihno is still a bit uneasy about using erasing :/
14.24.30 #       <quel|out> Bagder: so how do i get it?
14.24.39 #       <quel|out> can anyone send it to me?
14.24.56 #       <quel|out> i promise i'll be a good boy till the end of the day :)
14.25.27 #       <Bagder> ok then wait
14.26.01 #       <elinenbe> There are some heated bookmark mails on the list!
14.26.29 #       <Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-co/build-recorder/ajbrec.ajz
14.26.47 #       <Bagder> that's the current bleeding-edge
14.27.10 #       <quel|out> thx Bagder, but i was crossing my fingers, i lied :D
14.27.20 #       <Bagder> darn
14.27.26 #       <elinenbe> Zagor: do you think you will add the "Queue info" when a file is queued?
14.27.42 #       <elinenbe> taking that away was like taking away my first born!
14.28.23 #       <Zagor> i don't see why we need it. it was only ever necessary because you didn't see that PLAY|REPEAT was queue. now you do.
14.28.41 #       <elinenbe> it is nice to see the number of songs in the queue however.
14.29.05 #       <elinenbe> like I was playing songs for friends last night.  And when people rewuested songs, they wanted to know how long it would be.
14.29.12 #       <quel|out> time for lunch, bbl!
14.29.14 Part    quel|out (""Eve's Avatar - Avatar's Eve"")
14.29.33 #       <elinenbe> and I was unaware how long the queue was at that time, as we had been queuing and playing off the queue all night.
14.29.54 #       <Bagder> I think you've got a point there
14.30.22 #       <Bagder> thinking about it, we could possibly have some wps-code for displaying queue info as well
14.30.34 #       <elinenbe> unless you want to code up a queue browser.
14.30.42 #       <elinenbe> Badger: that is a good idea.
14.31.02 #       <elinenbe> it would be nice to have a dynamic queue where you can add/remove/cut/paste/move songs...
14.31.08 #       <elinenbe> then we have a playlist editor!
14.31.14 #       <Bagder> yeah ;-)
14.31.17 #       <dwihno> :D
14.31.18 #       <dwihno> YAY!
14.31.21 #       <dwihno> :-D
14.31.31 #       <dwihno> Playlisteditor and kebab for everyone!
14.33.03 #       <langhaarrocker> what does the abbreviation bbl mean? (my dictionary says 'barrel' but I doubt it somehow)
14.33.12 #       <Bagder> be back later
14.33.27 #       <langhaarrocker> thx
14.40.11 #       <dwihno> Yay for Roland!
14.40.31 #       <Bagder> ?
14.40.41 #       <langhaarrocker> the drumcomputer?
14.44.29 #       <Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/photos/snaxx-2002-09/dest/pic_770.html
14.45.22 #       <dwihno> Roland wants inverted selection too!
14.47.50 #       <kargatis> on queue browsing - that wouldn't be handled trivially with the existence of a pl browser?  ('view current playlist'?)
14.48.32 #       <Zagor> we need a generic browser, for many things.
14.48.44 #       <Zagor> we need one for bookmarks too
14.48.51 #       <kargatis> i guess that's included in the more complicated 'edit playlist' idea, too
14.50.01 #       <kargatis> another plus for autobookmarking - no UI needed :)
14.50.23 #       <Zagor> :-)
14.50.25 #       <langhaarrocker> we need time
14.51.55 #       <dwihno> "verschönert" ?! He has not!
14.51.58 #       <dwihno> He raped it! :(
14.53.30 #       <langhaarrocker> Bagder: on your photo there are two devices missing for the peak. What about a JBMM and a JBFM?
14.53.43 #       <Bagder> infidel!
14.53.47 #       <Bagder> :-)
14.55.25 #       <dwihno> Infinite deletion!
14.56.19 #       <dwihno> Let's get crazy and delete some dirs! :D
14.57.48 #       <kargatis> a slightly OT question about disk copying
14.57.59 #       <kargatis> i have a backup external copy of my mp3s
14.58.13 #       <kargatis> since the last backup, i mp3gained everything, plus added a lot
14.58.24 #       <kargatis> so basically, synching here is just a full recopy anyway
14.58.42 #       <kargatis> if i just copy over, will it result in lots more fragmentation than if i reformatted, then copied?
14.59.03 #       <kargatis> or will all the new files just go cleanly into the empty space, and the extant files overwritten cleanly too?
14.59.46 #       <langhaarrocker> If you delete the old files before copying theres lots of continuous space -> less fragmentation when new files are written.
15.00.44 #       <kargatis> so the individual file overwrites will result in lots of fragging, due to the slight changes?  (mp3gain header info only)
15.00.58 #       <dwihno> kargatis: deleteing files is cool! send us some screen shots! :)
15.03.51 #       <Zagor> kargatis: depends on the fat driver, i'd say
15.04.16 #       <Zagor> my fat code overwrites the old file, but some drivers may create a new file and then remove the old one
15.05.00 #       <kargatis> realistically, will fragmentation affect me in this backup?  i figure reformatting a 120GB drive will take a while. :-/
15.05.47 #       <langhaarrocker> With mp3 I wouldn't bother much about fragmentation anyway. It's not that speed critical to take much effect.
15.06.02 #       <Zagor> also mp3 files are so big, fragmentation is not a real problem
15.07.02 #       <dwihno> kargatis: You got USB2?
15.07.15 #       <dwihno> USB2 is cool! I want USB2!
15.07.25 #       <dwihno> But I don't know what cardbus adapter to buy! :(
15.07.32 #       <langhaarrocker> dwihno: buy a second jukebox
15.07.47 #       <Bagder> hey, it still took me an hour or so to restore my 19GB of data ;-)
15.07.59 #       <kargatis> sure, bought a cheap usb2 card
15.08.14 #       <kargatis> works like charm, no probs
15.08.27 #       <dwihno> kargatis: how about drivers?
15.08.39 #       <langhaarrocker> Bagder: In that time int would be easier to build the drive into the computer temporarily :)
15.08.45 #       <kargatis> again, np - i'm on win2k
15.08.48 #       * dwihno wants hardware which is neat, stable, and works on fishy platforms (linux, bsd etc)
15.08.56 Part    Zagor
15.09.09 #       <Bagder> langhaarrocker: I disagree, then I'd have to spend time to rip it out and put it in and vice versa too
15.09.31 #       <langhaarrocker> But that time is more interesting then waiting
15.10.03 #       <Bagder> hehe, I was away eating while it copied
15.10.42 #       <langhaarrocker> I guess the drive took more bytes per second than you :)
15.10.51 #       <Bagder> :-]
15.14.00 #       <dwihno> Bagder: what USB2 cardbus adapter would you recommend?
15.14.19 #       <Bagder> I recommend pci ;-)
15.15.15 #       * dwihno throws skumtomtar (from RIMI, 1.95/hg) on Bagder 
15.15.17 Join    Zagor_ [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
15.15.21 #       <Zagor_> grr
15.15.23 Nick    Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
15.15.33 #       * dwihno gives Zagor some skumtomtar, you can throw some too!
15.15.52 Part    Zagor
15.16.10 #       * Bagder has a feeling Zagor's tunnel is not 100% fine today
15.16.24 #       <langhaarrocker> dwihno: now you scared zagor away
15.16.43 #       <dwihno> That 8MB mod looks so cool :)
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15.23.42 Join    Zagor_ [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
15.23.50 #       <langhaarrocker> Zagor: any bruises from the collapsing tunnel?
15.24.00 Nick    Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
15.24.09 #       <Zagor> i got sand in my eye!
15.24.44 #       * Bagder smiles
15.25.49 #       <langhaarrocker> always wear safety glasses when surfing in a tunnel!
15.27.12 #       <elinenbe> langhaarrocker: are you ever going to finish your split editor?
15.28.03 #       <langhaarrocker> somewhen. Momentarily I'm too busy with work and band. (We're doing recordings with new hardware and I'm the guy to do all the stuff)
15.29.49 #       <langhaarrocker> It'll take a few weeks before I get my hands dirty programming the JB again
15.30.10 #       <elinenbe> langhaarrocker: darn -- I was looking forward to that.
15.30.17 #       <langhaarrocker> me too
15.31.04 #       <dwihno> Aren't there anybody else but me who uses a laptop?!
15.31.43 #       <elinenbe> dwihno: I only have a laptop
15.32.11 #       <langhaarrocker> elinenbe: What is worse: I still want to do the user assignable key binding stuff. The more I delay that the more code is written that must be rewritten some day. 
15.32.11 #       <langhaarrocker> I use a laptop, too
15.33.27 #       <elinenbe> most of the time I only use my palm!
15.33.40 #       <langhaarrocker> for programming?!
15.33.49 #       <elinenbe> everything.
15.33.56 #       <elinenbe> I like being a minimalist.
15.34.00 #       <langhaarrocker> do you have a keyboard for the palm?
15.34.03 #       <elinenbe> I have a palm with an 802.11b card in it.
15.34.10 #       <elinenbe> I can write grafitti VERY fast
15.34.22 #       <dwihno> elinenbe: You got USB2?
15.34.32 #       <elinenbe> no.
15.34.50 #       <dwihno> how about you, langhaarrocker?
15.34.58 #       <langhaarrocker> no.
15.35.09 #       <elinenbe> Zagor: I think .cfg files should all be in the same place too?
15.35.15 #       <langhaarrocker> Maybe my laptop has but I have no usb2 devices
15.35.32 #       <dwihno> whoa, nobody has USB2 cardbus adapters :(
15.35.39 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: how can a .cfg be track specific unless it's where the track is?
15.35.41 #       <dwihno> I was looking forward to get some additional info :(
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15.52.02 #       <Zagor> can I debug the conditions in an 'if' case somehow with gdb?
15.52.18 #       <Bagder> you can print it
15.52.27 #       <Bagder> p (expression)
15.52.43 #       <Zagor> yeah, but this is a monster 'if'. ~30 conditions
15.52.49 #       <Bagder> uh
15.53.18 #       <Bagder> no, I don't think there's any way to see which part that evaluates true or something like that
15.53.24 #       <Zagor> ok
15.55.48 #       <Bagder> hm, the anoncvs error changed
15.56.30 #       <Bagder> WORKS
15.56.33 #       <Bagder> tadaaa
15.56.40 #       <Bagder> go go go
15.56.53 #       * Bagder goes fixing
15.57.06 #       <Zagor> yay
15.57.09 Quit    ken0_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15.57.33 #       <Bagder> it'll probably cause a massive cvs attack on sf ;-)
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15.58.22 #       <Zagor> yeah
15.59.13 #       <gclark> I'm updated !!!
15.59.31 #       <gclark> ls
15.59.49 #       <gclark> sorry, wrong window.
15.59.54 #       <Bagder> :-)
16.05.45 #       <Bagder> making a daily build manually now
16.07.32 #       <Zagor> nice
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16.13.46 #       <quelsaruk> hi
16.13.50 #       <elinenbe> zagor: there could be a master config file
16.14.03 #       <elinenbe> config.cfg
16.14.11 #       <elinenbe> where it looks like:
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16.14.54 #       <elinenbe> file: artists/a-f/all saints/booty call.mp3
16.14.58 #       <elinenbe> volume: 70
16.15.12 #       <elinenbe> balance: left
16.15.16 #       <elinenbe> ....
16.15.23 #       <elinenbe> ;
16.15.25 #       <elinenbe> ;
16.15.33 #       <kargatis> elinenbe, what is the advantage of a centralized cfg?
16.15.51 #       <elinenbe> kargatis: then there will not be lots of .cfg files all over the place.
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16.16.18 #       <kargatis> okaaaay
16.16.22 #       <elinenbe> file: artists/t-z/u2/achtung baby/mysterious ways.mp3
16.16.23 #       <kargatis> granted! :)
16.16.26 #       <elinenbe> volume: 80
16.16.29 #       <elinenbe> etc ...
16.16.39 #       <elinenbe> one place to look at and edit the files.
16.16.39 #       <quelsaruk> sounds good...
16.16.57 #       <elinenbe> and the same could be done for bookmark files too.
16.17.18 #       <elinenbe> brb (laundry)
16.18.54 #       <kargatis> in general, I know where a given file (mp3, palylist) is, so it's not hard to go there.  still don't understand the badness of distributed files.
16.19.19 #       <kargatis> are you envisioning bulk changes in a centralized config file?
16.19.41 #       <Bagder> I'd assume people who wants to sync files from the archos for example
16.20.01 #       <elinenbe> kargatis: not really.  I just know right now I have MANY .cfg files on my recorder, and in some directories I have 20 .cfg diles
16.20.07 #       <elinenbe> s/diles/files
16.20.13 #       <elinenbe> and it becomes quite a mess.
16.20.49 #       <elinenbe> I could not imagine 10 bookmark files and 20 cfg files in a mix CD directory with 25 mp3s
16.20.55 #       <elinenbe> that is overload!
16.21.28 #       <Bagder> Zagor: daily fmrecorder build now added
16.21.38 #       <Bagder> in the same dir/path style as the other ones
16.23.03 #       <langhaarrocker> Aaah. Some red builds. Green is so boring.
16.24.50 #       <quelsaruk> Bagder: cvs is online?? I had to promise that i would be quiet today just for this?? ouch!!! not fair enough 
16.24.54 #       <Bagder> I'm not sure they are correct atm, though
16.27.27 Nick    quelsaruk is now known as quel|out (~zaknafein@faerun.ugr.es)
16.27.28 #       <quel|out> bye
16.28.10 #       <kargatis> elinenbe, well, i'm fine with centralized files, as long as it doesn't affect usability (in dealing with the entries as related to the parent files).
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16.31.00 #       <Bagder> "FM Rec" in the compile status table
16.32.03 #       <langhaarrocker> but no bleeding edge build yet.
16.32.11 #       <langhaarrocker> (for fm)
16.32.31 #       <Bagder> it is there, just no link
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16.37.56 #       <Bagder> fm recorder showed up as daily build now
16.38.37 #       <edx> Bagder: i didnt quite follow the conversation about the fm recorder... is rockbox completely working on there now?
16.38.51 #       <Bagder> completely no, working somewhat yes :-)
16.39.08 #       <edx> heh yea i got that ;)
16.40.13 #       <Bagder> bleeding-edge FM version available too now
16.41.33 #       * langhaarrocker thinks that Bagder completed the daily build page
16.44.46 #       * Bagder bows
16.45.56 #       <zodd> that's good news about the fm recorder...i'm getting one shipped today :)
16.45.56 Quit    ken0_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16.45.59 #       * langhaarrocker applauds
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16.47.02 #       <Zagor> i want fmrec at the far right in the compile status page :)
16.47.17 #       <Bagder> its alphabeticly sorted
16.47.22 Join    langhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@212-204-020-115.dsl1.versanet.de)
16.47.27 #       <Zagor> ah
16.47.28 #       <Bagder> I could reverse it ;-)
16.48.39 #       <zodd> is it here? http://rockbox.haxx.se/download/
16.48.42 #       <Zagor> nah :)
16.48.48 #       <Zagor> zodd: no, daily builds
16.49.00 #       <zodd> gotcha
16.49.01 #       <zodd> thx
16.49.28 #       <Bagder> zodd: the fm version will need more work before its usable though
16.49.34 #       <Bagder> we count on YOU! ;-)
16.50.20 #       * dwihno sees the CVS log! Thank GOD!
16.50.21 #       <zodd> heh
16.50.41 #       <zodd> i assume i could always go back to the factory software if need be, right?
16.50.55 #       <langhaarrocker> you tell us :)
16.51.11 #       <Bagder> yes, but that's chickening out and that won't give you highscore with us! ;-)
16.51.18 #       <zodd> hehe
16.51.33 #       <zodd> is this compressed? .ajz
16.51.56 #       <Bagder> that's the Archos-scrambled version
16.52.10 #       <zodd> oh, that's the file "as is" that you drop on the archos?
16.52.19 #       <Bagder> aye!
16.52.28 #       <zodd> cool
16.53.18 #       <zodd> cant wait to try it, read really good stuff about your work
16.53.35 #       <Bagder> ok,the player red build was my mistake
16.53.48 #       <langhaarrocker> zodd: yes, we write the good stuff
16.53.49 #       <Bagder> I did a bad configure
16.56.32 #       <zodd> so the same features you made for the previous recorders you are going to implement in the fm recorder?
16.56.50 #       <Bagder> they're very similar, so it almost works already
16.58.13 #       <Bagder> I mean, except for the FM stuff
16.58.39 #       <zodd> fm doesnt work at all yet?
16.59.12 #       <Bagder> no
17.00.05 #       <zodd> do you guys work with other machines or just the archos stuff?
17.00.45 #       <langhaarrocker> Nodo A8: I think the answer can be misunderstood like: "Isn't the grapich eq more about sound settings than about visualizing frequency bands of mp3 streams"
17.02.35 #       <Bagder> zodd: we work with this kinds of things for a living, at least I, zagor, linus and more
17.03.01 #       <zodd> cool
17.03.34 #       <langhaarrocker> Bagder: who pays you?
17.03.41 #       <Bagder> Contactor
17.03.48 #       <Bagder> my employer
17.04.11 #       <dwihno> Can they pay me too ;D ?
17.04.33 #       <Zagor> clarification: nobody pays us for working on Rockbox
17.04.41 #       <dwihno> Will ordering electronics from London introduce taxes and other fees? (ment for Bagder and the swedes)
17.04.57 #       <Bagder> dwihno: no such things, EU you know
17.05.10 #       <Bagder> they add their VAT
17.05.26 #       <dwihno> Bagder: VAT?
17.05.31 #       <Zagor> moms
17.05.37 #       <dwihno> They already do that.
17.05.43 #       <dwihno> It's a consumer-only dealer
17.05.49 #       <Bagder> yes, they do that in UK
17.05.57 #       <dwihno> Sweden is a U-land sometimes.
17.07.50 #       <dwihno> Let's pay some taxes! :D
17.08.16 #       <Zagor> it's a "D country" in english :-)
17.10.20 #       <dwihno> Zagor: It's a fucking YOU-land! :-)
17.10.45 #       <dwihno> $7 shipping from UK is acceptable though :-)
17.11.00 #       <dwihno> One, two, tree. See, my english is excellent ;)
17.12.00 #       <Bagder> they speak $ in UK?
17.14.17 #       <Zagor> i don't understand this nonsense about "floater files".
17.14.39 #       <kargatis> people just view it as clutter, i think.  nothing more complicated
17.15.00 #       <kargatis> probably just an individual reaction to how they themselves organize their files.
17.15.07 #       <Bagder> exactly
17.15.09 #       <dwihno> Bagder: The entire site has prices in USD, don't ask me why
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17.16.55 #       <langhaarrocker> lets store all the config stuff in the mp3 headers
17.17.03 #       <langhaarrocker> no files no cry
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17.21.00 #       <Zagor> :-)
17.26.14 Part    langhaarrocker
17.28.05 #       <elinenbe> I hate "floater files"
17.28.17 #       <Bagder> we're down on one yellow now
17.28.21 #       <elinenbe> I think we should come to a cenus on this one.
17.28.24 #       <Zagor> what the heck are floater files???
17.28.47 #       <Bagder> bookmark files in the mp3 file tree
17.29.07 #       <Bagder> I guess
17.29.11 #       <Zagor> no, floater files are some derogatory term stuart is using. I think he means junk temp files.
17.29.24 #       <elinenbe> floater files are the files that my mp3 tagger progam puts in every damn directory where I modify an mp3 "mp3.cache"
17.29.48 #       <elinenbe> Zagor: I don't think "floater" is meant to be derogatory
17.29.54 #       <elinenbe> bbl
17.29.55 #       <Zagor> no files are ever created without you explicitly asking for it. that will continue.
17.30.16 #       <Bagder> right, but I may not be asking for the file to be created in the mp3 file tree
17.30.37 #       <elinenbe> I for one would just like all the "rockbox" associated files in the .rockbox directory
17.30.46 #       <Zagor> Bagder: you are asking for information about this specific file to be saved.
17.30.53 #       <Zagor> elinenbe: called what?
17.30.58 #       <Bagder> Not really
17.31.04 #       <Bagder> I'm saving a bookmark
17.31.20 #       <Zagor> a bookmark is file specific by definition
17.31.28 #       <Bagder> I'm only saying *I* would want that in a specific directory
17.31.43 #       <Bagder> that's me
17.32.19 #       <Zagor> how?
17.32.21 #       <elinenbe> that is the problem, everyone wants their own thing, but everyone is forgetting the cardinal rule of OS projects: "Show Me The Code"
17.32.24 #       <elinenbe> br
17.32.26 #       <elinenbe> brb
17.32.42 #       <Zagor> how would you save track-specific files in the /.rockbox dir?
17.32.53 #       <Bagder> Zagor: well, first that's why I want the full file name in the file itself
17.33.20 #       <Zagor> so; rename a dir, and all bookmarks go bust? fun fun
17.33.23 #       <Bagder> so duplicate file names could append whatever to avoid being a duplicate
17.33.41 #       <Bagder> yes, rename makes it go boom
17.33.49 #       <Bagder> that's still what I want
17.34.47 #       <Bagder> since it is plain ascii, it is at least theoritecly fixable
17.35.23 #       <Zagor> what about all other file types?
17.35.43 #       <Zagor> this is just one of many new support file we will be handling
17.35.46 #       <Bagder> you mean like .cfs etc?
17.35.49 #       <Bagder> cfg
17.35.50 #       <Zagor> yes.
17.36.21 #       <Bagder> that's a different issue in my eyes
17.36.31 #       <Zagor> i think it's the same thing
17.36.49 #       <Bagder> well, I would like to be able to browse my bookmarks
17.36.54 #       <Bagder> not my .cfg files
17.37.17 #       <Zagor> browse bookmarks?
17.37.22 #       <Bagder> yes
17.37.29 #       <Bagder> have 12 in a dir, named sensible
17.37.38 #       <Bagder> then you know what they have marked
17.38.26 #       <Zagor> gotta go
17.38.27 Part    Zagor
17.50.59 #       <Bagder> the win sim is in a sorry state
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21.41.08 #       <quel|out> must go
21.41.29 #       <quel|out> see you next week
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23.58.45 #       <EGM92> ANYONE here?