--- Log for 14.07.103 Server: sterling.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16p1 Started: 10 days and 14 hours ago 00.02.41 # well that part doesn't take any time. the delay is waiting for BSY, which previously didn't use the correct address 00.03.13 # but i agree we should investigate more and see if there is a workaround 00.03.20 # <[IDC]Dragon> It must have taken some time, because you saw the Rockbox logo. 00.04.03 # agreed. i wonder what really was happening. 00.04.11 # <[IDC]Dragon> ;-) 00.05.06 # btw, i'll check in 8MB plugin support in a few minutes. no PIC yet, maybe later if we figure out how to fix it. 00.05.30 # <[IDC]Dragon> Oh, that's great! 00.05.57 # <[IDC]Dragon> on the other end, it starts a compatibility problem. 00.06.08 # yes, it means another API version bump 00.06.39 # <[IDC]Dragon> How about running the plugins at a lower, common address, carving a hole into Rockbox? 00.07.29 # it's quite difficult. the linker can't handle working around a carved-out hole, so we'd have to manually try to piece it together. 00.07.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> version bump? You want to have two groups of versins for that? 00.08.20 # no, i'm just checking the memory size in plugin_test() 00.08.30 # <[IDC]Dragon> Ah, good. 00.09.18 # <[IDC]Dragon> About the hole: how about after the exception vectors? Then the Rockbox code doesn't need to flow around a hole. 00.09.38 # <[IDC]Dragon> (but I need to change my bootloader) 00.10.32 # yeah, that could work. i'll need to think about it some more. 00.10.52 # <[IDC]Dragon> OK. 00.10.57 # i'll commit this fix first. we can change it later if we want to. 00.11.14 # <[IDC]Dragon> Another OK. 00.11.46 # <[IDC]Dragon> This afternoon I made a flash firmware set for the FM. 00.12.02 # do you have an fm to test with now? 00.12.12 # <[IDC]Dragon> Need to try it tomorrow, hope to get hold of such a box. 00.12.22 # nice 00.12.32 # <[IDC]Dragon> A co-worker has one. 00.13.35 # <[IDC]Dragon> The Archos FM firmware is quite a bit larger, leaves less room for us. 00.14.08 # <[IDC]Dragon> 12 KB in fact, it just went into a new flash sector by a few bytes. 00.14.20 # <[IDC]Dragon> But we still have plenty. 00.14.23 # ok 00.14.53 # * Stevie-O yawns 00.14.55 # good morning 00.15.15 # <[IDC]Dragon> Oh yes, it's past midnight. 00.15.24 # it's only 6pm here 00.15.27 # and since I just got up 00.15.33 # it's still morning 00.15.37 # :-) 00.15.42 # how goes it? 00.15.51 # <[IDC]Dragon> And you call us old Europe, we're alwas ahead. 00.15.58 # <[IDC]Dragon> always 00.16.28 # yeah, you're like 6 hours in the future 00.16.33 # i'm doing a few last cleanups before i go on vacation tomorrow 00.16.35 # hmmm 00.16.40 # so tell me, what's the future like? 00.16.44 # do we have flying cars yet? 00.16.52 # :) 00.16.58 # <[IDC]Dragon> Oh, that's tomorrow? I understood the week after. 00.17.06 # wtf are those damn dorky scientists waiting for 00.17.43 # yeah, it's tomorrow. i probably expressed myself poorly. 00.18.02 # lol 00.18.06 # oh man 00.18.07 # <[IDC]Dragon> And you got the nerve to still be Rockboxing? 00.18.34 # <[IDC]Dragon> My girlfriend would be upset. 00.18.39 # i was supposed to write the x86 emulator to run office XP on Rockbox today 00.18.48 # hehe 00.19.01 # <[IDC]Dragon> still not done? 00.19.04 # I need to write a defragmenter for Rockbox 00.19.26 # <[IDC]Dragon> That would be slow, I guess. 00.19.45 # only if you think I mean the same thing as what Windoze Defragmenter does 00.20.24 # When I first got my FM, I just dumped all my mp3s in it as they were 00.20.43 # so i had about 5 directories and 1100 mp3s in the root 00.21.01 # (it was a short time before I noticed it was cutting off the end of the list...) 00.21.30 # when I got Rockbox, I was forced to put everything into directories b/c of the 400 limit 00.21.47 # so I made dirs [A-H] [I-P] [Q-Z] 00.22.19 # and moved the mp3s into the right dirs 00.23.04 # well while testing some new code (which still doesn't work) to speed up open()s 00.23.25 # I discovered that my root dir is like this: 00.24.21 # ... 00.24.45 # well over 1000 00.25.06 # ah, how silly :) 00.25.11 # since it's probably about 4 entries per file, it's probably over 4000 00.25.19 # now think about this 00.25.27 # at 32 bytes per entry 00.25.33 # that's 128000 bytes 00.25.49 # at 512 bytes per sector, that's 250 sectors Rockbox has to read through 00.25.57 # which have NO USEFUL DATA 00.26.07 # yup 00.26.10 # i also found an error in the shortname generation code 00.26.13 # <[IDC]Dragon> How about backing up the whole to a PC, erazing the box, putting it back? 00.26.34 # [IDC]Dragon: yuck 00.27.04 # plus, files that I created *after* the deletions still aren't covering the beginning 00.27.21 # even rockbox-created files? 00.27.32 # less sure about those 00.27.37 # rockbox doesn't create much in the root dir 00.27.44 # only those internal files 00.27.48 # from the ROM dump 00.27.52 # at least i wrote it to use first-fit 00.27.58 # I think those *are* at the beginning 00.28.28 # Also, this giant root dir *is* fragmented 00.28.34 # its clusters are all over the disk 00.29.06 # so apparently it doesn't defragment the root 00.29.06 # yeah, i can imagine 00.29.22 # I wonder if it does subdirs 00.29.31 # oh, a question about debug builds 00.29.42 # i've not actually built one, since I have no serial mod 00.29.53 # but i think it generates an .elf? 00.30.32 # yes, for use with gdb 00.31.05 # what's the debug format used to store the debug info? 00.31.32 # umm, not sure. it's part of the elf file. 00.31.45 # i think it's DWARF 00.32.37 # * Stevie-O needs to find a dll to read DWARF 00.38.58 # is there a homepage for elfutils or what? 00.39.19 # no idea 00.39.29 # binutils maybe? 00.40.07 # objcopy should contain code to read all sorts of elf sections 00.41.00 # mkay 00.41.54 # ah, libbfd 00.42.47 # man, I got so much stuff I need to write 00.43.10 # the hacker's dilemma :) 00.44.21 # (1) i need to finish jbrserbus, a driver to spawn virtual serial ports 00.45.01 # (2) hmm. I need food, too. 00.45.15 # 6:44pm, kentucky fried taco hut should still be open 00.45.24 Nick Stevie-O is now known as Stevie-fOod (whatsit2u@user-2inilgl.dialup.mindspring.com) 00.45.27 # bbiab 00.51.21 # <[IDC]Dragon> I'm off for bed. 00.51.33 # yeah, me too. long day tomorrow. 00.51.34 # <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor, have a nice vacation! 00.51.37 # thanks 00.51.50 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("Leaving") 01.06.08 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") 01.26.01 Nick Stevie-fOod is now known as Stevie-O (whatsit2u@user-2inilgl.dialup.mindspring.com) 01.40.17 Join tracktheripper1 [0] (jirc@ACBF441F.ipt.aol.com) 01.40.20 Quit tracktheripper1 (Client Quit) 01.40.45 Join tracktheripper [0] (jirc@ACBF441F.ipt.aol.com) 01.40.50 # at last 01.40.55 # the server died earlier on :( 01.41.18 # wb? 01.41.42 # hello stevie-O 01.41.47 # whats up? 01.42.59 # not much 01.43.12 # yeah 01.43.40 # I read on Amazon that someone described the Ipod as looking like a "Lady's electric razor" 01.44.24 # lol 01.45.02 # Meanwhile, the Archos was described by the same person as looking like a "James Bond detonator" 01.50.09 # :-) 01.58.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.02.13 Join midknight2k3 [0] (jirc@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com) 02.02.24 # hello all 02.06.41 # lol 02.08.36 # hey midknight! 02.08.41 # I have something for you 02.08.53 # hey, so do I 02.08.59 # hmm, where's my bat... 02.09.41 # lol 02.09.49 # can you hear me stevie-o? 02.09.59 # or am i still blocked 02.10.47 # i can hear you midknighty 02.10.54 # not stevie 02.10.56 # he block me 02.10.57 # did u get that link in the PM? 02.11.11 # ah well never ,omd 02.11.15 # yes 02.11.17 # i got it 02.11.41 # what do u think? 02.12.01 # lolololol] 02.12.08 # :) 02.14.03 Join BoD[] [0] (~BoD@m232.net195-132-84.noos.fr) 02.14.09 # heeeiiiiiziziziizialaakkiilalala 02.14.10 # BOD 02.14.11 # it is BOD 02.14.19 # YES :) 02.14.29 # BOD has not been here for long time 02.14.38 # hi BoD 02.14.38 # well a few days :) 02.14.42 # hi 02.15.03 # so ... THE question : is the flash thing is "stable" ? 02.15.11 # basically 02.15.20 # did you try it ;) 02.15.27 # us fm recorder users dont get it till later :/ 02.15.34 # arg 02.15.40 # i'm a recorder20 man 02.15.46 # you can have it now 02.15.49 # but i must wait 02.16.16 # last time i went here it worked but the guys adviced me to wait a bit 02.16.36 # yeah i dunno yet 02.16.41 # id give it another week to be sure 02.16.53 # ok 02.17.17 # it's too bad the digest is idle 02.17.25 # BOOO 02.17.26 # :D 02.17.28 # since i don't read the mailing list, it was my source 02.18.03 # lololololol 02.18.07 # what:) 02.18.08 # just go to rockbox.haxx.se 02.18.10 # lol 02.18.17 # you dont need to use that just go there 02.18.24 # yeah i know but i mean 02.18.36 # the digest thing is handy 02.18.46 # yehasj 02.18.49 # yeah 02.19.15 # but i think it's just that the maintainer is in holliday 02.20.20 # "in holliday"? 02.20.22 # lol 02.21.03 # hollidays ? 02.21.17 # what's wrong 02.21.19 # hey 02.21.43 # hey 02.21.46 # it's jet! 02.21.49 # :) 02.22.58 # hey all 02.22.58 # :) 02.24.07 # *silence* 02.27.37 # im in trouble 02.30.30 # why 02.30.46 # my bogus feature request 02.30.52 # arf 02.30.54 # again!? :) 02.31.02 # track always does it!! 02.31.07 # i did one and it's the worst 02.31.07 # crap 02.31.08 # oh right 02.31.10 # im dead 02.32.23 # :P 02.32.57 # here's my old one 02.33.01 # it seems popular 02.33.01 # ??? 02.33.03 # 3 comments! 02.33.09 # hang on 02.33.32 # http://tinyurl.com/gtud 02.34.11 # :P 02.34.33 # here we are... 02.34.37 # my latest innovation 02.34.41 # PRESENTING...... 02.34.47 # http://tinyurl.com/gtui 02.35.03 # :P 02.35.18 # and good bye! 02.35.21 Quit midknight2k3 ("Leaving") 02.40.19 Join keithhub [0] (~keithhub@rdu57-68-096.nc.rr.com) 02.40.20 Quit tracktheripper (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.41.42 # hey guys 02.42.16 # yo 02.42.25 # whatsup? 02.44.18 # not much 02.54.56 # hmm 02.54.57 # damn 02.55.00 # 2200 mah battery 02.57.47 # that's the fm 03.09.39 # yeea 03.09.42 # hmm 03.09.46 # is recording from the radio illegal? 03.15.15 # no? 03.15.26 # if it was then they wouldn't have that feature 03.16.16 # haha 03.16.20 # nice argument :) 03.16.24 # now, is it IMMORAL? :) 03.17.41 # no? 03.17.50 # hmm do you care? 03.17.58 # they play the stuff for free anyway 03.18.59 # ric, Stevie, I really strive to maintain honesty in all this music online stuff 03.19.53 # what about software,, when is a idea your''s ? 03.23.07 # there is a difference between copyright & authorship.. 03.27.38 # buying CD's is immoral 03.27.53 # in doing so you're supporting a corrupt industry that screws both the artists and the consumers 03.27.53 # i agree 03.28.04 # 100% 03.29.03 # if you really want 100% moral music, i suppose you should either play it yourself, or go support a live band 03.29.31 # you could happen to play something that is copyrighted 03.29.37 # so it could be illegal 03.31.42 # or implemeny a (c) algorithim 03.33.24 # heh 03.33.26 # or even worse reinvent the wheel 03.33.26 # I buy CDs 03.33.27 # an dpay fo rmusic 03.33.31 # that gives me enough piece of mind 03.33.47 # you can come up with justifications for it all, but I dont care WHO you steal from, its stealing 03.34.43 # what about using rockbox ? 03.36.18 # you dismissed, but morally ? 03.36.56 # rockbox is OFFERED for free 03.37.00 # as an extreme method of gratitude 03.37.09 # although I will make a donation once I Get some paypal funds in 03.37.21 # if somebody offers it for free, its fine 03.39.45 # i don't believe something "intellectual" can be the property of somebody 03.39.56 # like, a song, a software, ... 03.40.11 # so how is music differnt? 03.41.39 # it's not ;) 03.41.44 # but I better talk about this when I'm sober.. 03.41.52 # :)) 03.42.14 # haha 03.47.00 # mh 03.47.01 Quit Stevie[FreedomPa (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.47.07 # a song is not IP 03.47.13 # and neither is software 03.47.25 # ideas are IP, and I have trouble with the concept of them being property 03.48.02 # how is a song not IP ? 03.48.06 # define IP 03.48.44 # a song 03.48.46 # and software 03.48.48 # was produced 03.49.01 # it took time and effort 03.49.06 # measurable time and effort 03.49.34 # and how is this differnt from for e.g. my playlist code? 03.49.44 # what did I just say? 03.49.50 #

and software 03.50.37 # most song belong to somebody 03.50.53 # didn't I just say that? 03.50.54 # hardeep did all hard work in (re) implementing it, where is the bord er ? 03.50.56 # a song is an "intellectual" thing (as opposed to material thing) 03.50.58 # so 03.51.01 # a song is IP 03.51.08 # no 03.51.10 # a song is not intellectual 03.51.17 # is it material ? :) 03.51.31 # it is not tangible 03.51.37 # that doesn't mean it's intellectual 03.52.00 # ok then it's "not tangible"P 03.52.00 # :) 03.52.04 # while intellectual things are intangible 03.52.11 # not all intangible things are IP 03.52.43 # ok maybe ... but what i was trying to say is that I don't accept the fact that something intanglible can be the property of somebody 03.52.54 # for me, it belongs to nobody, or to everybody 03.52.55 # intangible, my english is comming short... 03.53.06 # ricII: tangible == touchable 03.53.33 # material 03.53.51 # agian where is the border...\ 03.53.59 # where is what border? 03.54.39 # between intellectual & tangible 03.54.57 # intellectual does not border on tangible 03.55.39 # BoD[]: then you've never created something intangible 03.55.54 # true 03.56.02 # I get paid to write software. 03.56.10 # If the software was not property of my employer 03.56.11 # me too 03.56.13 # they wouldn't get paid 03.56.18 # it's sad 03.56.20 # and I wouldn't have a job 03.56.23 # it's not a perfect world ;) 03.56.24 # indeed. 03.56.34 # but THAT doesn't mean it's RIGHT 03.56.42 # what are you talking about? 03.56.47 # I created that software 03.56.56 # *I* created it 03.57.01 # are you sure 03.57.05 # and you're saying I don't get to say how it gets used? 03.57.10 # don't you use libraries 03.57.12 # unless I have an evil twin 03.57.18 # are you not just assembling things 03.57.22 # that already exist ? 03.57.26 # ... 03.57.35 # do you own a car? 03.57.39 # what is true creation 03.58.00 # i think that "all works are derivative" ;) 03.58.07 # hmm 03.58.30 # i dont own a car 03.58.34 # I do,, 03.58.37 # but i should ;) 03.58.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.58.41 # more of that software was created by me, than what of my car was created by Honda 03.59.03 # well my gf does, I got it insured etc. 03.59.04 # does that mean my car should have been free? 03.59.09 # i dont think so 03.59.13 # your car is material 03.59.27 # it is an assembly of things that already existed 03.59.50 # well yes 03.59.58 # they transformed things 04.00.16 # did it not cost them money to produce? 04.00.26 # yes it did 04.00.28 # but 04.00.38 # you can copy something intangible 04.00.41 # for no cost 04.00.47 # you can't do that with cars 04.00.47 # there's always a cost 04.00.57 # ok an infinitesimal one 04.00.57 # it's just far less for computer software 04.01.07 # not infinitesimal 04.01.10 # negligible 04.01.15 # but not infinitesimal 04.01.18 # that's the same 04.01.36 # no, infinitesimal is immeasurable, negligible is so small that it doesn't matter 04.01.48 # ok so that's the same for this conversation ;) 04.01.54 # do you get paid? 04.01.59 # so the car bisness is not the same as software.. 04.02.00 # yes 04.02.05 # would you rather your employer not pay you for the software you write? 04.02.07 # yes.. 04.02.14 # well "currently" i'm not employed 04.02.19 # but that doesn't matter 04.02.33 # well I get paid for knownledge.. 04.02.37 # good, then you are presently the subject of your preferred economic model 04.02.45 # i get paid for time 04.02.51 # i give my time to code stuffs 04.03.03 # but the code itself i would prefere it was free 04.03.11 # it's not, i can live with it 04.03.16 # no 04.03.19 # you get paid for your code 04.03.26 # if you did not write code, you would not get paid 04.03.44 # it's a service i give 04.04.06 # yeah 04.04.09 # not true here,,,\ 04.04.09 # it has nothing to do with the fact that this code then "belongs" to the company, and they can sell it 04.04.10 # the service of writing code 04.04.59 # if they couldn't sell it 04.05.03 # they would not pay you for it 04.05.07 # but still there is authorship... 04.05.15 # well as I said 04.05.26 # i understand the "goal" of this 04.05.51 # it's easy for people to be paid for the stuff they produce 04.06.05 # but that doesn't mean it's right 04.06.24 # I had to write code for ibm which I didn't want to put my name under it... 04.06.25 # 67% of girls are stupid 04.06.25 #

i belong with the other 13% 04.06.27 # in a perfect world, people could be paid for producing things, and these things would still be free 04.06.40 # ;) 04.06.52 # * Stevie-O sends BoD[] to an economics class 04.07.23 # i say : something that requires no money for being copied should be free 04.07.26 # in a perfect world, you wouldn't need to get paid.. 04.08.17 # very true 04.08.45 # in star trek there is no money I think 04.09.10 # i think the authors were a bit too optimistic about the future ;) 04.09.10 # star trek is a fucking tv show 04.09.17 Join midknight2k3 [0] (jirc@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com) 04.09.19 # stevie-o : no??? really ? 04.09.21 # yup// 04.09.22 # i'll note that in star trek 04.09.31 # helo 04.09.42 # they ALSO had the ability to copy your 'material things' for negligible cost 04.09.56 # yep 04.10.05 # thus no need for money ;) 04.10.12 # prob. is howto transform our world to a more perfect.l. 04.10.13 # that makes sense 04.11.01 # i see i am not wanted jere 04.11.17 # midknight2k3: why? 04.11.32 # nobody replies to my hello 04.11.36 # hello 04.11.38 # hi 04.11.45 # :) 04.11.51 # : |) 04.12.20 # ricII : when i'm president of the world, my first move would be to cancel all the ip laws ;) it will not be legal to "own" something not material 04.12.53 # opensource is on it's way.. 04.12.56 # :)) 04.13.56 # anyway see you all 04.13.58 # i have to sleep 04.13.59 # it's like a nature power, evolution ...idea's want ro be free 04.14.22 # bye 04.14.27 # good night bog 04.14.27 # everybody wants to be free 04.14.29 # bod 04.14.34 # :-|) 04.14.40 #