--- Log for 02.01.104  Server: orwell.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16p1  Started: 19 days and 10 hours ago

00.00.05 #       <Gary> i have 7xx ripping and i like the supertagging
00.00.27 #       <Gary> how fast does winamp rip?
00.01.18 #       <hardeep> no idea on ripping speed... i just use to play mp3s
00.02.07 #       <Gary> ill try it out - any other programs for cataloguing my music?
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00.02.25 #       <top_bloke> winamp does 2x unless u get pro
00.02.35 #       <top_bloke> which is limited only by ur drive
00.02.50 #       <Gary> you like winamp pro?
00.03.11 #       <top_bloke> i dont have pro
00.03.21 #       <top_bloke> just regular
00.03.42 #       <top_bloke> too lazy to find a keygen
00.05.51 #       <Gary> trying to modify the playlist within the archos
00.06.18 #       <top_bloke> how u gonna do that?
00.07.54 #       <Gary> not sure - maybe go into the text editor for each m3u file?
00.08.05 #       <Gary> probably not realistic for 250 playlists
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00.52.11 #       <Gary> just wanted to say thanks
00.52.17 #       <Gary> i now see from practising that
00.52.34 #       <Gary> i need the structure on my archos to match the structure on the m3us
00.58.31 #       <BC|Code> does anybody online have any idea how to pass a path to plugin_load() ?
00.58.54 #       <BC|Code> ...it looks impossible, but surely cannot be or features I use could not work!
01.01.42 #       <BC|Code> forget that - think I've got my head on backward
01.01.43 #       <BC|Code> s
01.01.54 #       <BC|Code> (and gf whinging in my ear)
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02.15.14 Nick    c0utta{beach} is now known as c0utta (noemail@dialup-151.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
02.16.07 #       <c0utta> hey Gary, another good option is tag&rename for m3u.  http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm
02.16.40 #       <BC|Code> for id3 taggers for windows ...I quite like ID3Tagit
02.17.22 #       <c0utta> i like t&r because it uses freedb and allmusic.com
02.17.31 #       <Gary> ill try it out
02.17.39 #       <Gary> thanks!
02.17.52 #       <c0utta> i just use a batch file to copy from my PC to the archos
02.18.12 #       <BC|Code> never understood that ...how can you use freedb to identify an MP3?
02.18.28 #       <c0utta> BC|Code: you need the whole album
02.18.31 #       <BC|Code> ahhh
02.18.55 #       <c0utta> you can use allmusic.com for individual songs
02.19.14 #       <c0utta> i used to use ultratagger but it seems to corrupt some of the id3 tags
02.19.55 #       <c0utta> that was the problem i had with rockbox a few days ago.  linus still hasn't fixed it, but at least we could isolate the problem
02.20.06 #       <top_bloke> hey c0utta do u code?
02.20.16 #       <c0utta> top_bloke: badly, but yes
02.20.29 #       <top_bloke> or BC if youre not busy
02.20.38 #       <BC|Code> yeah?
02.20.51 #       <top_bloke> i wanna show they day of the week
02.21.00 #       <BC|Code> example?
02.21.08 #       <top_bloke> thursday
02.21.14 #       <top_bloke> but rb gives me a number
02.21.19 #       <BC|Code> multi language?
02.21.25 #       <top_bloke> nah english for now
02.21.45 #       <BC|Code> how many times will you use the code within your app?
02.21.49 #       <top_bloke> once
02.22.00 #       <BC|Code> what is the number range from rb?
02.22.11 #       <top_bloke> well today is 04
02.22.16 #       <top_bloke> not really sure
02.22.24 #       <top_bloke> where it starts or ends
02.22.41 #       <BC|Code> need to know that, guess sunday==0, sat==6
02.22.50 #       <top_bloke> yeah thats what i assume
02.23.10 Nick    c0utta is now known as c0utta{lunch} (noemail@dialup-151.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
02.23.17 #       <BC|Code> given that assumption...
02.23.18 #       <top_bloke> i can just go if(wday == 0) {day = "Sun"}
02.23.44 #       <top_bloke> else if(wday == 1) {day = "mon"} and so on
02.23.52 #       <top_bloke> but is there an easier way?
02.24.14 #       <top_bloke> also gonna do it for months
02.24.16 #       <BC|Code> yes... but you have to give me time to type it in ;)
02.24.30 #       <top_bloke> tyep what?
02.24.36 #       <BC|Code> lol
02.24.38 #       <top_bloke> ok sorry
02.24.40 #       <top_bloke> i wait
02.24.43 #       <BC|Code> did you want some example code?
02.24.50 #       <BC|Code> or an explanation?
02.24.52 #       <top_bloke> yeah sorry
02.24.57 #       <top_bloke> both?
02.25.06 #       <top_bloke> example better
02.25.08 #       <BC|Code> then let me give you some code to explain ;)
02.25.17 #       <top_bloke> lol ok
02.25.18 #       <BC|Code> one other...
02.25.33 #       <BC|Code> is it okay if the day name is returned with spaces on the end?
02.25.43 #       <top_bloke> yeah
02.25.57 #       <BC|Code> brb
02.26.19 Join    kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@Be152.b.pppool.de)
02.26.51 #       <top_bloke> btw the centering thing was either right all along or the lcd_update(); fixed it
02.27.05 #       <top_bloke> cause it works now
02.27.12 #       <BC|Code> lol
02.27.19 #       <BC|Code> hate it when that happens
02.27.29 #       <BC|Code> "But WHAT did I do???" lol
02.28.03 #       <top_bloke> lol it was one of the 2
02.28.25 #       <BC|Code> sorry, trying to discover which string functions we have in rockbox....
02.29.13 #       <kurzhaarrocker> all these lcd_puts functions and so on write into a buffer. No data is written to the lcd at that moment. lcd_update transfers that data to the lcd. Thus without lcd_update you don't see what you wrote.
02.29.46 #       <top_bloke> this part of the loop in f2 menu though
02.30.03 #       <top_bloke> it does lcd_update(); later
02.30.07 #       <top_bloke> i dunno
02.30.36 #       <kurzhaarrocker> And if you comment out that lcd_update line you won't see the f2 menu either. Though still it works
02.30.52 #       <top_bloke> what do u mean works?
02.31.17 #       <top_bloke> it wont show right
02.31.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> you just don't see the text, everything else is the same.
02.31.26 #       <top_bloke> ok
02.31.34 #       <BC|Code> char sDay[10];                                                                  
02.31.34 #       <BC|Code> int  iDay;                                                                  
02.31.34 #       <BC|Code> strncpy(sDay,"sunday   monday   tuesday  wednesdaythursday friday   saturday "[iDay*9],9);
02.31.56 #       <top_bloke> woah looks complicated
02.32.09 #       <BC|Code> sDay is somewhere to store the resutl
02.32.12 #       <kurzhaarrocker> second parameter of strncpy must be a size, I think
02.32.21 #       <BC|Code> iDay is the 0...6
02.32.29 #       <BC|Code> "days" is a string of days
02.32.44 #       <BC|Code> [] say where to start
02.32.59 #       <BC|Code> 0*9==0 ...so for sunday start at position 0 in the string
02.33.09 #       <BC|Code> 1*9==9 ...
02.33.26 #       <BC|Code> the final ",9)" is the length of a word
02.33.35 #       <top_bloke> think this is too advanced for me
02.33.36 #       <BC|Code> in fact both 9's are the length
02.33.41 #       <top_bloke> so what do i do with that then?
02.33.58 #       <BC|Code> take the long line of code
02.34.18 #       <BC|Code> replace "iDay" with whatever variable you currently store the day number in
02.34.23 #       <top_bloke> ohhhhh
02.34.24 #       <top_bloke> ok
02.34.42 #       <top_bloke> and whats the name of the string that it puts the day in?
02.34.42 #       <BC|Code> and replace sDay with the String into which you want the result placed
02.34.44 Join    ely78373 [0] (~Fbi@pool-68-160-243-158.ny325.east.verizon.net)
02.34.53 #       <top_bloke> so sday
02.34.55 #       <top_bloke> ok i get it
02.35.01 #       <ely78373> can someione help me
02.35.20 #       <top_bloke> i think
02.35.28 #       <BC|Code> you can, if you like, replcae "iDay" with "rb->getday()"
02.35.43 #       <BC|Code> (or whatever the function is called)
02.35.50 #       <top_bloke> i have it put that in wday
02.36.02 #       <ely78373> i have the rec 15
02.36.07 #       <ely78373> and the videos r workin
02.36.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Is there a difference to
02.36.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> char *sDay[] = {"Sun", "Mon", "Tue"}; /* and so on */
02.36.11 #       <BC|Code> so you have     wday = getday() ??
02.36.11 #       <ely78373> i just cant hear any sound
02.36.12 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ?
02.36.22 #       <top_bloke>     int wday = tm->tm_wday; 
02.36.43 #       <BC|Code> or, if you prefer you can do it The way that Kurz will now explain
02.36.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ely78373: me too
02.37.00 #       <top_bloke> theres no sound in vids
02.37.04 #       <top_bloke> yet
02.37.04 #       <BC|Code> there are precisely 703,492 different ways to do this - lol
02.37.20 #       <top_bloke> i'll go w your way right now
02.37.25 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code and increasing ...
02.37.34 Quit    methangas (" I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
02.37.42 #       <ely78373> when will there be sounds
02.38.11 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ely78373 I have no idea.
02.38.22 #       <ely78373> dasmn
02.38.38 #       <ely78373> well i hope whoever came up with thsi video thing will find a way to get sounds on it
02.38.56 #       <ely78373> also is it possible that i can change my greyscale screen and get a color screen
02.39.24 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Very unlikely, as that would require heavy hardware mods, too.
02.39.42 #       <ely78373> damn
02.39.50 #       <ely78373> cause the vidz aint that good
02.39.53 #       <ely78373> quality
02.39.56 #       <ely78373> with grey scale
02.40.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> what do you expect. Its a music device, not a video recorder.
02.40.16 #       <ely78373> i guess but still
02.40.24 #       <ely78373> sound there should be
02.40.33 #       <ely78373> when did this vidz thing come out
02.41.26 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I consider it very likely that there will be sound with video somewhen.
02.41.35 #       <ely78373> i hope so
02.41.40 #       <ely78373> aight peace
02.42.03 Quit    Gary ("Leaving")
02.44.49 #       * kurzhaarrocker is still puzzled by BCs strncpy code.
02.45.31 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code does it work with strings of different lengths?
02.46.38 #       <BC|Code> no, hence the space padding
02.46.47 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ok.
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03.04.49 Quit    top_bloke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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03.06.53 #       <top_bloke> sorry i got disconnected
03.06.58 #       <BC|Code> s'okay
03.07.02 #       <BC|Code> where did you get up to?
03.07.03 #       <top_bloke> anyway it dont work and i get a warning
03.07.20 #       <top_bloke> warning: passing arg 2 of `strncpy' makes pointer from integer wi
03.07.28 #       <top_bloke> thout a cast
03.07.53 #       <BC|Code> ARGH
03.08.11 #       <BC|Code> put an & JUST before the first quote
03.08.33 #       <top_bloke> before sunday?
03.08.43 #       <BC|Code> before the quote before sunday
03.08.57 #       <kurzhaarrocker> &"sunday ...
03.09.03 #       <BC|Code> yep
03.09.16 #       <BC|Code> the []'s dereference the string!
03.09.27 #       <BC|Code> the & references it again
03.09.37 #       <BC|Code> sorry, I should have compiled it before i sent it
03.10.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> to me c was a bag of surprises and mysteries since ever
03.10.42 #       <BC|Code> you'll kick yoursefl when the penny drops
03.10.46 #       <top_bloke> ooops
03.10.46 #       <top_bloke> already compiled lol
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03.11.20 #       <BC|Code> back so soon
03.11.24 #       <top_bloke> god i dont know wtf is up w my connection
03.11.40 #       <BC|Code> the joys of autologin - lol
03.11.40 #       <top_bloke> anyway it compiled
03.11.53 #       <top_bloke> i just get my standard warning lol
03.11.57 #       <BC|Code> does it print garbage though ...this is the big question
03.12.02 #       <top_bloke> ah
03.12.05 #       <top_bloke> lets see
03.14.01 #       <kurzhaarrocker> If you want it to print garbage you shouldn't put replace &"Sunday ... with &"garbage
03.14.16 #       <top_bloke> (rimshot)
03.14.21 #       <BC|Code> lol
03.14.38 #       <top_bloke> ohhh
03.14.53 #       <top_bloke> lol it shows "day Frida"
03.14.58 #       <top_bloke> oh man lol
03.15.36 #       <top_bloke> is that considered garbage
03.15.38 #       <top_bloke> ?
03.15.43 #       <BC|Code> hmmm, kinda
03.15.58 #       <BC|Code> cut'n'paster your line
03.16.01 #       <top_bloke> 	strncpy(sDay,&"Sunday Monday Tuesday WednesdayThursday Friday Saturday "[9*wday],9);
03.16.56 #       <BC|Code> SUNDAY---MONDAY---TUESDAY--WEDNESDAYTHURSDAY-FRIDAY---SATURDAY-"
03.17.17 #       <BC|Code> can you count the dashed you end
03.17.18 #       <BC|Code> ?
03.17.21 #       <BC|Code> dasheS
03.17.31 #       <top_bloke> ?
03.17.47 #       <top_bloke> need more spaces?
03.17.53 #       <BC|Code> ESS EWE EN DEE AY WHY SPACE SPACE SPACE
03.18.19 #       <top_bloke> yeah i get it
03.18.19 #       <BC|Code> count all nine chars :)
03.18.20 #       <top_bloke> ok
03.18.22 #       <kurzhaarrocker> each word (including spaces) must be exaclty 9 characters long
03.18.26 #       <BC|Code> indeed
03.19.30 #       <top_bloke> got it
03.19.30 #       <top_bloke> anyway i dont think i have room for the whole word
03.19.31 #       <top_bloke> if i wanna fit the whole dat
03.19.31 DBUG    Enqueued KICK top_bloke
03.19.31 #       <top_bloke> e
03.20.00 #       <top_bloke> like Thu, Jan 1, 2004 is what im thinkin
03.20.37 #       <top_bloke> 	char sDay[3];
03.20.37 #       <top_bloke> 	strncpy(sDay,&"SunMonTueWedThuFriSat"[3*wday],3);
03.20.38 #       <top_bloke> ?
03.20.47 #       <BC|Code> :)
03.21.55 #       <top_bloke> would that do?
03.21.56 #       <top_bloke> but this is harcoded to english
03.21.56 #       <top_bloke> ah so what
03.22.23 #       <BC|Code> yes language support calls for a very different approach
03.22.29 #       <top_bloke> ok month should be easy now
03.22.29 #       <top_bloke> thanks a lot BC and kurzhaarrocker
03.22.35 #       <BC|Code> ;)
03.22.36 #       <kurzhaarrocker> top_bloke are you coding a plugin?
03.22.46 #       <top_bloke> no this is for the f2 screen
03.22.51 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ok
03.23.05 #       <top_bloke> on top theres room
03.23.06 #       <BC|Code> what is the "f2 screen"?
03.23.13 #       <top_bloke> when u hit f2?
03.23.37 #       <BC|Code> you mean the three shortcuts thing?
03.23.45 #       <kurzhaarrocker> but on a f2 screen internationalization would be desirable.
03.24.16 #       <top_bloke> the middle button under the lcd
03.24.16 #       <top_bloke> or r u kidding
03.24.16 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code yes. Its in apps/screens.c 
03.24.40 #       <top_bloke> well doesnt everyone understand mon, tues
03.24.51 #       <BC|Code> hee hee :)
03.24.59 #       <top_bloke> if not
03.25.02 #       <top_bloke> they SHOULD
03.25.04 #       <top_bloke> nah j/k
03.25.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> There are already internationalized 3 letter week days in the .lang files.
03.25.45 #       <top_bloke> if i recall, the setting screen for date has no international support
03.25.45 #       <top_bloke> and day of week
03.25.55 #       <kurzhaarrocker> -> hardly no work to internationalize
03.25.55 #       <top_bloke> there are?
03.26.22 #       <kurzhaarrocker> see english.lang , so around line 900
03.26.47 #       <top_bloke> does the stting screen use em?
03.27.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Its used in settings.c
03.28.36 #       <top_bloke> ok
03.28.36 #       <top_bloke> i tried to stal that code
03.28.37 #       <top_bloke> that sets the date
03.29.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> what went wrong when you tried to steal that code?
03.29.47 #       <top_bloke> lol
03.29.49 #       <top_bloke> i dunno
03.29.56 #       <top_bloke> i couldnt understand it
03.29.57 #       <BC|Code> lol
03.31.09 #       <top_bloke> oh they DO use LANG_WEEKDAY_SUNDAY,
03.31.25 #       <top_bloke> i dunno what i was looking at before then
03.31.45 #       <kurzhaarrocker> do you need those daynames in a local variable within a function or is it a module variable outside of any functions?
03.32.08 #       <top_bloke> i didnt get a word of that
03.32.20 #       <top_bloke> lol sorry
03.32.39 #       <kurzhaarrocker> your sDay variable - is that declared within a function?
03.32.49 #       <top_bloke> yeah
03.33.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> cool. Then you could make it like this:
03.33.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> char *sDay = {str(LANG_WEEKDAY_SUNDAY), str(LANG_WEEKDAY_MONDAY), ...};
03.33.57 #       <kurzhaarrocker> sorry: char *sDay[] of course
03.34.16 #       <top_bloke> and keep everything the same?
03.34.44 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Well maybe you should make sDay sday, or Zagor will slay you.
03.34.51 #       <top_bloke> oh 
03.35.07 #       <top_bloke> right away sir
03.35.38 #       <top_bloke> god text pad is starting to bug me to register
03.35.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> well, no, when you later want to have the string for monday you'd write sday[1]
03.36.14 #       <top_bloke> well i dont know what to write
03.36.26 #       <top_bloke> cause wday tells it what to write
03.36.31 #       <BC|Code> you could look at the code i just sent you   ...just an idea?
03.36.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> then its sday[wday]
03.36.51 #       <top_bloke> even more comlicated eh
03.36.56 #       <top_bloke> complicated
03.37.19 #       <top_bloke> more code
03.37.21 #       <BC|Code> yeah you got to cut and paste MUCH more this time
03.37.29 #       <top_bloke> lol
03.37.53 #       <top_bloke> AND the same thing for date
03.37.57 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But with the internationalizattion that strncpy approach doesn't work any more.
03.38.11 #       <top_bloke> i'll make screens.c twice the size!
03.38.25 #       <top_bloke> month that is
03.38.29 #       <top_bloke> by date i mean month
03.38.44 #       <BC|Code> LMAO -no sympath from the man who's just written 2500 lines of new code for the audio control 
03.39.01 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
03.39.01 #       * kurzhaarrocker is impressed
03.39.29 #       <top_bloke> wow
03.39.31 #       <top_bloke> me too
03.39.34 #       <top_bloke> for rockbox?
03.39.36 #       <BC|Code> i get to waste the rest of tonight trying to work out htf to get the rocks to taget the right dir for the new sim code
03.39.41 #       <BC|Code> yes for rockbox
03.39.51 #       <top_bloke> yay
03.39.56 #       <kurzhaarrocker> And to be honest: the lack of a _good_ sound menu is a major drawback compared with the original firmware.
03.40.09 #       <top_bloke> yeah sliders ans stuff
03.40.29 #       <BC|Code> no INACCURATE sliders in MY code!!!
03.40.40 #       <top_bloke> inaccurate?
03.40.49 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But not a new screen for each number I hope?
03.41.00 #       <top_bloke> boo
03.41.23 #       <BC|Code> I've got it all on one screen - but eveyrbody keeps complaining about that
03.41.32 #       <kurzhaarrocker> not me.
03.41.34 #       <top_bloke> who?
03.41.41 #       <top_bloke> i'm not
03.41.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> (well I haven't seen it yet)
03.41.45 #       <top_bloke> me neither
03.41.49 #       <BC|Code> linus, and I *thought* Kurz!?
03.41.51 #       <top_bloke> i'm sure its good tho
03.42.15 #       <top_bloke> ahh what do they know?
03.42.17 #       <BC|Code> two people bashing me about wanting it to scroll more than a screen
03.42.20 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code all I said was that it would preferable not to tie the user to a special font other than the system font
03.42.28 #       <BC|Code> yep - that's it!
03.42.31 #       <BC|Code> I was right!
03.42.33 #       <BC|Code> <phew>
03.42.33 #       <top_bloke> can u scroll the slider?
03.42.38 #       <BC|Code> what slider?
03.42.47 #       <top_bloke> the sound slider
03.42.57 DBUG    Enqueued KICK BC|Code
03.42.57 #       <BC|Code> 01[02:40] <BC|Code> no INACCURATE sliders in MY code!!! 
03.43.08 #       <BC|Code> brb
03.43.10 #       <top_bloke> or keep all the sliders in place and scroll the text on the side
03.43.23 #       <kurzhaarrocker> top_bloke are you talking about a scrollbar for the whole page?
03.44.03 #       <top_bloke> no the sliders
03.44.15 #       <top_bloke> make them scroll by if the user has a huge font
03.44.22 #       <top_bloke> but that seems stupid now
03.45.25 #       <BC|Code> bak
03.45.52 #       <top_bloke> yeah so do the sliders
03.45.54 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code: do you run in problems with the height or the width of the screen with the system font?
03.46.03 #       <BC|Code> yes
03.47.01 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ?
03.47.21 #       <BC|Code> it was a choice!  height
03.48.09 #       <BC|Code> width is PROBABLY okay 
03.48.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ok. Just for a moment I had the vision of many scrolling text thingies on a sound setting screen. It was a nightmare.
03.48.49 #       <top_bloke> only the one youre on would scroll
03.48.54 #       <BC|Code> THERE IS ******NO********* SCROLLING
03.48.59 #       <top_bloke> oh?
03.49.07 #       <top_bloke> how will u fit?
03.49.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code: uff
03.49.16 #       <top_bloke> with big fonts
03.49.36 #       <BC|Code> there is currently no font support
03.49.45 #       <top_bloke> ok good
03.50.33 #       <top_bloke> is it a problem is moth starts with 1?
03.50.54 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'm so thrilled. I can hardly wait for the next band practice session when I can test the recording trigger and prerecording in real life!
03.51.12 #       <top_bloke> you record with archos?
03.51.34 #       <kurzhaarrocker> top_bloke: That's what I'd expect
03.51.34 #       <kurzhaarrocker> top_bloke: yes, of course. That's why I bought it.
03.52.01 #       <top_bloke> i guess ill make a new int and -1 from mon
03.52.28 #       <top_bloke> u rec on line in?
03.52.36 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
03.52.52 #       <top_bloke> what u mean by recordin trigger?
03.52.55 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I have a self made microphone preamp
03.53.33 #       <kurzhaarrocker> recording trigger = it starts recording automatically when a volume level is exceeded and stops the recording when there is silence.
03.53.42 #       <top_bloke> is that in rockbox
03.53.50 #       <top_bloke> i just thought of that when u said it
03.53.54 #       <top_bloke> like in wavelab
03.54.05 #       <kurzhaarrocker> not yet, I just uploaded that patch yesterday
03.54.14 #       <top_bloke> definitely a nice feature
03.54.23 #       <top_bloke> can u set on/off levels?
03.54.24 Quit    scott666 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03.54.27 #       <BC|Code> how about FFWD during record breaks the track?
03.54.48 #       <top_bloke> doesnt play do that?
03.54.50 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ffwd while recording? Into the future?
03.54.55 #       <BC|Code> not when i last tried it
03.55.05 #       <top_bloke> yea i dont know dont record much
03.55.30 #       <top_bloke> i play in a band too but record on the drummers pc
03.55.41 #       <top_bloke> never thought about the archos
03.56.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes, for real recordings we use a pc, too. Just for reherasal and as an acustical notepad thats to much hazzle.
03.56.18 #       <top_bloke> oh ok
03.56.53 #       <top_bloke> could just use built in mic if u dont care about quality
03.57.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Yes, but the hazzle to plug in the mic preamp is bearable to me.
03.57.33 #       <top_bloke> can i snprintf multiple strings in one?
03.57.39 #       <top_bloke> in one snprintf
03.58.05 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes with snprintf(buf, sizeof buf, "%s %s %s", s1, s2, s3);
03.58.07 #       <BC|Code> snprintf ( destination,     "%s  %s   %s",   string1,   string2,   string 3);
03.58.16 #       <top_bloke> ok thanks
03.58.18 #       <top_bloke> both
03.58.29 #       <BC|Code> i forgot sizeof()
03.58.43 #       <BC|Code> mine was actually a    sprintf()
03.59.11 #       <kurzhaarrocker> and both of us put in spaces between the strings
03.59.36 #       <BC|Code> lol
03.59.36 #       <top_bloke> oh and im gonna need some ints in there too
03.59.42 #       <top_bloke> but i think i can handle it
03.59.42 #       <BC|Code> %d
03.59.58 #       <top_bloke> whats %2d?
04.00.03 #       <BC|Code> 2 chars long
04.00.14 #       <BC|Code> %-2d   is two chars long left justified
04.00.31 #       <BC|Code> %02d    is 2 chars long  zero padded
04.00.34 #       <top_bloke> can i use %d if my int CAN be 2 chars?
04.00.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I didn't know that. 
04.00.50 #       <BC|Code> yes, the number is the MINIMUM
04.00.56 #       <top_bloke> oh
04.00.57 #       <top_bloke> ok
04.01.05 #       <BC|Code> if you exceeed this count, then the string will expand accordingly
04.01.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code: what was the tag for hexadecimal output?
04.01.21 #       <BC|Code> %x or %X  
04.01.37 #       <kurzhaarrocker> for lower / uppercase ?
04.01.40 #       <BC|Code> yes
04.02.21 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04.02.27 #       <kurzhaarrocker> there are rumours that there will be printf stuff in java 1.5 -> good to learn a few things in advance.
04.02.52 Join    Stevenm [0] (~StevenM@pcp04424903pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)
04.04.21 #       <top_bloke> oh can i use , in qutes?
04.04.33 #       <BC|Code> yes
04.04.46 #       <BC|Code> you cannot use \ or "
04.04.56 #       <BC|Code> \ is \\    " is \"
04.05.01 #       <top_bloke> ok
04.05.03 #       <BC|Code> tab is \t
04.05.09 #       <BC|Code> newline is \n
04.05.12 #       <BC|Code> return is \r
04.05.16 Join    scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com)
04.05.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> BC|Code: Is an example of your soundsettings stuff for download anywhere?
04.05.26 #       <BC|Code> not atm
04.05.53 #       <BC|Code> im working on the next build of the win32sim patch atm
04.06.46 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Linus broke it by committing the prerecord stuff.
04.06.54 #       <BC|Code> well and truly - lol
04.08.19 #       <top_bloke> ok i compiled
04.08.46 #       <Stevenm> Does ANYONE have a working *nix Dev kit?
04.08.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> When talking about win32sim patch stuff: Have you found a solution to simulate reading peaks from the mas?
04.09.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Stevenm: I work on cygwin
04.09.26 #       <Stevenm> kurzhaarrocker: How did you get GCC to compile ??
04.10.52 #       <kurzhaarrocker> gcc was not the problem, the sh1 and mig compiler were. But that was more than a year ago and I don't know anything about those troubles any more.
04.11.04 #       <Stevenm> all right
04.11.30 #       <Stevenm> does anyone know where I can get a pre-compiled package of the development kit for the nix platform?
04.11.53 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I think in the end I found all info that was neccessary on http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/
04.12.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> If there is no link to a precompiled dev kit I don't know any other sources.
04.12.26 #       <Stevenm> I have tried compiling it before.. twice, following everyone's instructions. I still get build errors
04.12.37 #       <kurzhaarrocker> :(
04.12.59 Quit    scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
04.16.11 #       <dsg> Stevenm: Been a while, but I don't seem to recall any problems building SH-targetted GCC.
04.16.29 #       <Stevenm> dsg: Do you still have it ?
04.16.33 #       <dsg> Haven't set one up for rockbox, but I had a dreamcast devkit up, the DC uses SH-4.
04.17.07 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'm off for bed. CU
04.17.10 #       <dsg> Stevenm: Doubt it... reinstalled my desktop machine since then.
04.17.24 Quit    kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
04.17.35 #       <dsg> Besides, it had alot of stuff you probably don't want (gcc built with newlib support and such).
04.18.25 #       <Stevenm> ../../../gcc-3.0.4/gcc/config/sh/lib1funcs.asm:166: Error: no such instruction: `rts'
04.18.25 #       <Stevenm> make[2]: *** [libgcc/./_ashiftrt.o] Error 1
04.19.52 #       <dsg> Fína finishing move.
04.19.55 #       <dsg> Argh.
04.19.59 #       <dsg> You have binutils compiled, I trust?
04.20.06 #       <Stevenm> yes
04.23.30 #       <dsg> Wel... not sure. I didn't have any problems with it at the time.
04.24.06 #       <BC|Code> Kurz:  I am not working on mpeg emulation, just UI emulation
04.25.22 #       <BC|Code> hardware level audio device emulation is a ludicrous task 
04.25.42 #       <top_bloke> BC|Code do u have an easier way to make sims?
04.26.04 #       <BC|Code> simulation of.....
04.26.10 #       <top_bloke> rockbox
04.26.15 #       <top_bloke> win32
04.26.24 #       <BC|Code> you want me to simulation windows?
04.26.31 #       <BC|Code> *simulate
04.26.38 #       <top_bloke> sim rockbox
04.26.41 #       <top_bloke> on windows
04.26.58 #       <BC|Code> what does it not do currently that you want
04.27.11 #       <top_bloke> no i dont have full cygwin
04.27.22 #       <top_bloke> i thought u were doing another solution
04.27.25 #       <top_bloke> forget it
04.27.48 #       <BC|Code> i have a cut down dev kit if that's what you mean ...or I can forget everything as you prefer?
04.28.13 #       <top_bloke> is up for dl anywhere?
04.28.19 #       <BC|Code> only on my machine
04.28.26 #       <BC|Code> no interest
04.28.36 #       <top_bloke> i have interest
04.28.46 #       <top_bloke> i'm sick of USBing every time
04.29.00 #       <top_bloke> got garbage last time - %s instead of %d
04.29.04 #       <BC|Code> me too - hence shit loads of work on getting the sim up and running
04.29.22 #       <top_bloke> people have interest
04.29.40 #       <top_bloke> i got my fingers crossed on this one
04.29.52 #       <BC|Code> the current ver I have has a couple of bodges in it ...but IT WORKS
04.30.09 #       <top_bloke> thats cool
04.30.23 #       <top_bloke> you should put it up
04.30.31 #       <BC|Code> heh
04.30.53 #       <top_bloke> my dl is horrid
04.31.01 #       <BC|Code> .5K/sec - WTF!!!!!????
04.31.11 #       <top_bloke> and i will get disconnected long before its done
04.31.18 #       <BC|Code> well, you'll have it in a couple of days
04.31.19 #       <top_bloke> i mean put it on a site
04.31.25 #       <top_bloke> i'd get it at school
04.31.32 #       <BC|Code> more aggro than I get for
04.31.38 #       <BC|Code> get->care
04.31.39 #       <top_bloke> yeah
04.31.49 #       <top_bloke> i understand
04.32.15 #       <BC|Code> if i could fix it, then I would upload it, but I just cant get the help
04.32.41 #       <top_bloke> none of the devs use win?
04.33.08 #       <BC|Code> yeah, but they all install 60TB of cygwin
04.33.15 #       <top_bloke> lol
04.33.20 #       <top_bloke> hahahaaha
04.33.36 #       <top_bloke> well i'm with u on this one
04.34.02 #       <BC|Code> why u only get .5K down - you hammering your line with p2p
04.34.25 #       <top_bloke> something like that
04.35.07 #       <BC|Code> you run a porn server!
04.35.34 #       <top_bloke> lol yeah thats it
04.35.39 #       <top_bloke> off 56k
04.38.31 #       <BC|Code> anyone here understand MAKEFILEs
04.41.31 #       <BC|Code> lol - aint that typical!
04.41.51 #       <top_bloke> lol dont look at me
04.42.04 #       <top_bloke> i dont understand anything
04.42.20 #       <BC|Code> i think a more fair question is ...does ANYBODY ANYWHERE EVER understand the damn things
04.42.30 #       <top_bloke> i'm sure they do
04.42.40 #       <top_bloke> just not here right now
04.42.59 #       <BC|Code> I'm sure people just copy one from someone else and botch it - it's all i ever do !
04.44.02 #       <top_bloke> uh
04.44.03 #       <top_bloke> ok
04.44.05 #       <BC|Code> I'll bodge it ..then someone will complain ..then I will say "so fix it"  lol
04.45.12 #       <top_bloke> yeah so do it
04.53.33 Join    MALOW [0] (OperaTor@VA1-1G-u-0143.mc.onolab.com)
04.53.37 #       <MALOW> hi
04.53.55 #       <top_bloke> hi
04.54.31 #       <top_bloke> YES
04.54.35 #       <top_bloke> IT WORKS
04.55.09 #       <MALOW> as he is the commando for use halftone.exe?
04.55.18 #       <top_bloke> Thu Jan  1, 04
04.55.25 #       <MALOW> commands
04.55.36 #       <BC|Code> oohh - you have the Y3K bug!
04.55.39 #       <top_bloke> halftone your.yuv output.rvf
04.55.49 #       <top_bloke> Y3k?
04.55.56 #       <BC|Code> two digit year
04.56.06 #       <top_bloke> on purpose
04.56.15 #       <top_bloke> i may barely fit 2004 on there
04.56.19 #       <BC|Code> j/k
04.56.35 #       <top_bloke> you know archos stores the year since 1900
04.56.40 #       <top_bloke> in 3 digits
04.57.06 #       <top_bloke> and they add 2000 to it
04.57.17 #       <top_bloke> so it definitely has a y3k bug
04.57.40 #       <top_bloke> thanks a LOT BC!
04.57.45 #       <top_bloke> finally works
04.57.56 #       <BC|Code> cool :)
04.58.12 #       <MALOW> thanks top_bloke i have a win32 program for convert avi to yuv, in case u interesting it.....
04.58.26 #       <top_bloke> whats a yuv anyway
04.58.34 #       <BC|Code> us video standard
04.58.42 #       <top_bloke> oh?
04.59.00 #       <top_bloke> is there anyway to have pics in the video viewer?
04.59.04 #       <top_bloke> or loop video
04.59.22 #       <BC|Code> see lena.rvf
04.59.26 #       <top_bloke> yeah
04.59.45 #       <top_bloke> did you see it with the latest build
04.59.51 #       <top_bloke> doesnt loop for me
04.59.54 #       <BC|Code> video loops ...so are you a cult leader?
05.00.00 #       <top_bloke> lol
05.00.11 #       <top_bloke> yeah we got a mass suicide tonight
05.00.21 #       <top_bloke> and i need to get my loops straight
05.00.23 #       <BC|Code> cool - can I come and watch
05.00.35 #       <top_bloke> u gotta do it too
05.00.42 #       <top_bloke> die that is
05.01.10 #       <BC|Code> who's gonna document your greatness for the anals of time?
05.01.25 #       <top_bloke> isnt that anals?
05.01.41 #       <top_bloke> i will go down as a leader
05.01.50 #       <top_bloke> i mean annals
05.02.00 #       <BC|Code> <sic>
05.02.13 #       <top_bloke> anals is...
05.02.15 #       <top_bloke> well u know what
05.02.41 #       <top_bloke> anyway the current build doesnt loop lena!
05.02.46 #       <top_bloke> wtf
05.03.34 #       <top_bloke> try it
05.03.37 #       <top_bloke> maybe i ought to get the original video rock
05.04.15 #       <BC|Code> or speak to jorg
05.04.41 #       <top_bloke> yeah
05.15.14 Quit    MALOW ("...")
05.26.24 #       <BC|Code> new win32sim patch uploaded
05.26.47 Quit    Stevenm ("Client exiting")
05.53.26 #       <top_bloke> i'm rolling out
05.53.32 #       <top_bloke> later
05.53.39 Quit    top_bloke ("The mind is a terrible thing to taste. Wasted 2 hours 43 minutes and 43 seconds online.")
06.02.25 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06.28.43 Join    arspy87 [0] (~arspy87@h00062598fa3b.ne.client2.attbi.com)
06.29.01 #       <BC|Code> arse pie :) yo
06.29.08 #       <arspy87> :) hey whats up
06.29.15 #       <BC|Code> new winsim patch :)
06.29.36 #       <arspy87> nice! im unwinding froma  really annoying 1GB session of ripping CDs with musicmatch
06.29.45 #       <BC|Code> grrrrrrooooooaaannnnnn
06.29.56 #       <arspy87> ripping = not fun
06.30.00 #       <arspy87> tagging = worse
06.30.03 #       <BC|Code> no -
06.30.05 #       <BC|Code> also no
06.30.13 #       <BC|Code> with EAC it is even more painful
06.30.20 #       <BC|Code> about 35mins/album
06.30.28 #       <arspy87> wow, why so long?
06.30.37 #       <BC|Code> perfect rips
06.31.00 #       <arspy87> and i thought 5 minutes was painful
06.31.18 #       <BC|Code> spell checking freedb is also a pain
06.31.38 #       <BC|Code> then i get an album cover and add catalog numbers to the id3
06.31.53 #       <BC|Code> add artist home page etc. etc.
06.31.58 #       <arspy87> wow i feel so lazy
06.32.02 #       <BC|Code> the worst was my yello collection
06.32.11 #       <arspy87> heh
06.32.31 #       <BC|Code> some "best of" tracks are the same, some are complete remixes
06.32.42 #       <BC|Code> had to listen to them all and work out which was which
06.33.08 #       <arspy87> ugh, Best Of / Greatest Hits albums are the worst - took me forever to actually get them distinguished on my mp3 player
06.33.24 #       <BC|Code> only do my genres by album ...thank god
06.33.30 #       <BC|Code> yeah
06.34.05 #       <BC|Code> brb
06.34.33 #       <arspy87> so what are you coding this time, blue?
06.34.34 #       <arspy87> ok
06.34.38 #       <arspy87> me too, brb
06.38.13 #       <arspy87> back
06.51.13 #       <BC|Code> back
06.51.28 #       <arspy87> hey
06.51.35 #       <arspy87> what are you coding, blue?
06.51.40 #       <BC|Code> working on some new audio code
06.52.20 #       <arspy87> aha, the infamous audio code 
06.52.52 #       <BC|Code> it's getting that way isn't it? lol
06.53.17 #       <arspy87> lol yeah
06.53.20 #       <BC|Code> I'm doing a maths bit atm - i am USELESS at math
06.53.31 #       <arspy87> i used to be good in math
06.53.47 #       <arspy87> until precalculus arrived on the scene
06.54.34 #       <BC|Code> i need to represent 0...524288 in terms of 0..1 given a resolution of 3 decimal places
06.55.02 #       <BC|Code> without ever using a decimal point
06.55.14 #       <BC|Code> thus my result is 0...1000
06.55.24 #       <BC|Code> 1000 being 1.000 == 524288
06.55.44 #       <arspy87> ah, got it (i think)
06.55.51 #       <BC|Code> please do :)
06.56.15 #       <arspy87> i don't think i'll ever understand C, i cant even get javascript ;)
06.56.34 #       <BC|Code> forget C ...what's the math?
06.57.07 #       <arspy87> ---thinking---
06.57.53 #       <arspy87> 524288... is that something in base-2?
06.58.20 #       <BC|Code> the full problem is a 20bit 2's complement number ...but I didn't want to scare you
06.58.42 #       <BC|Code> 524288 should be represented by the variable "max"
06.59.10 #       <arspy87> ok... already scared but doing best to comprehend
06.59.29 #       <BC|Code> don't worry about the source of the number ...just trust it
06.59.36 #       <arspy87> ok
07.00.01 #       <arspy87> im getting my calculator for this
07.00.45 #       <arspy87> well 524288 is really 2^19
07.02.09 #       <BC|Code> you know - i think you're onto something
07.02.24 #       <arspy87> possibly, im getting my C book right now
07.02.57 #       <BC|Code> no, I just joined your insanity for a moment
07.03.12 #       <arspy87> oh, lol
07.03.30 #       <arspy87> when you say 0..1 what dot he '.'s mean?
07.03.41 #       <BC|Code> the 20th bit is the sign!!
07.03.57 #       <BC|Code> 0.000  to 1.000
07.04.16 #       <BC|Code> 01a resolution of 3 decimal places 
07.04.17 #       <arspy87> ah ok
07.04.58 #       <BC|Code> but as you CANNOT have decimal places... the result must be expressed as 0 to 1000
07.05.35 #       <BC|Code> then i will "draw a dot" in the right place as I print it
07.05.59 #       <arspy87> ok so you need to represent 524288 wihtout using decimal place? or... 0...524288?
07.06.08 #       <arspy87> = dumb
07.06.54 #       <BC|Code> 0 = 0     1 = 524    2 = 1048       ......     1000 = 524288
07.07.10 #       <arspy87> AHA! now i see
07.07.38 #       <BC|Code> actually 2 = 1049
07.07.48 #       <arspy87> um, why?
07.07.56 #       <arspy87> round off error?
07.08.17 #       <BC|Code> 524.288 = 524      1048.576 = 1049
07.08.41 #       <BC|Code> although that really isn't the biggest issue
07.08.45 #       <arspy87> oh... ok now i get it. makes sense now...
07.09.49 #       <BC|Code> it's a dumb 30 char expression ...i'm just useless at math!
07.10.36 #       <BC|Code> took me christ know how long to get       hex = (524288*decimal)/1000
07.10.45 #       <BC|Code> (which is the problem in reverse)
07.11.27 #       <arspy87> nah actually i dont get it either lol
07.11.58 #       <BC|Code> oh well
07.12.20 #       <arspy87> sorry
07.12.49 #       <arspy87> why must C make it so difficult to use a simple decimal point....
07.12.56 #       <BC|Code> it doesn't
07.15.49 #       <BC|Code> this is NOT a "C" issue
07.19.00 #       <BC|Code> I THINK I've got it!
07.19.15 #       <BC|Code> dec = (((value*(1000*1000))/0x80000)+500)/1000;
07.21.15 #       <BC|Code> which is all very good apart from the overflow condition that occurs
07.26.55 #       <BC|Code> or even ....dec = (value*1000)/0x80000;
07.30.22 #       <arspy87> aha
07.31.12 #       <BC|Code> i knew it would be simple
07.33.59 #       <arspy87> 0x80000?
07.34.05 #       <BC|Code> 524288
07.34.11 #       <arspy87> ah
07.34.45 #       <arspy87> so some random amount of zeroes followed by 80000 equals 524288?
07.35.00 #       <arspy87> wait that doesnt make sense im probably wrong
07.35.32 #       <BC|Code> $0000000000000000000000080000 ==  $00000080000 == $80000 = 524288d
07.36.00 #       <arspy87> AH YES
07.36.01 #       <arspy87> you got it yay
07.36.08 #       <arspy87> just figured it out
07.36.10 #       <arspy87> onmy calculator
07.36.16 #       <BC|Code> you do know about base 16?
07.36.28 #       <arspy87> not really
07.36.39 #       <BC|Code> you cannot program without it
07.36.46 #       <BC|Code> not real stuff anyways
07.37.09 #       <arspy87> thats in the "skip me on your first reading because this is a techie section" section of my book
07.37.26 #       <BC|Code> learn base 2, and base 16 if you want to program low level stuff
07.37.28 #       <BC|Code> lol
07.37.49 #       <BC|Code> run screaming at the word "BCD"
07.37.58 #       <arspy87> i know base 2
07.38.06 #       <arspy87> computers are not smart
07.38.19 #       <BC|Code> convresion from base 2 -> 16 is stupidly simple
07.38.48 Quit    hardeep ("[BX] Twat?! I cunt hear you!")
07.39.08 #       <BC|Code> oh yes hardeep - very polite
07.39.12 #       <BC|Code> lol
07.40.56 #       <c0utta{lunch}> hey BC, what do I need to set up the win32 simulator ?
07.41.16 #       <BC|Code> i got a zip file with the cygwin & rockbox stuff in it
07.41.29 #       <BC|Code> then the latest source and the latest winsim patch
07.46.32 #       <c0utta{lunch}> i still don't understand the development environment very well
07.46.40 Nick    c0utta{lunch} is now known as c0utta (noemail@dialup-151.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
07.46.52 #       <c0utta> is cygwin like a linux for win32 ?
07.46.57 #       <BC|Code> yes
07.47.36 #       <arspy87> c++ for dummies forces me to use GNU C++ which STINKS, i'm a visual person
07.47.48 #       <BC|Code> you can, if you prefer, install cygwin with their setup util and then get the rockbox tools from rockbox
07.47.50 #       <c0utta> i have cygwin at least.  i do patch and diff in there
07.48.04 #       <c0utta> and make of course
07.48.12 #       <BC|Code> do you have all the sh-1 compilers in place?
07.48.41 #       <c0utta> how do i tell ?
07.48.43 #       <BC|Code> arspy87: buy a different book !
07.49.43 #       <arspy87> lol i d2d, now i have Dev C++
07.49.51 #       <arspy87> d2d = did
07.50.00 #       <c0utta> BC|Code: i used http://rockbox.my-vserver.de/win32-sdk.html
07.50.24 #       <BC|Code> oh righty ..rolands old dev kit :)
07.50.39 #       <c0utta> is there a better way ?
07.50.49 Join    thu [0] (~thu@24.87.64.169)
07.50.51 #       <c0utta> i use crimson editor for the coding, then make in cygwin
07.50.57 #       <BC|Code> you cannot build sims with the old dev kit
07.51.06 #       <c0utta> then copy to rockbox from build-dir
07.51.22 #       <c0utta> ok, where is the "new" dev kit ?
07.51.38 #       <BC|Code> 01[06:41] <BC|Code> i got a zip file with the cygwin & rockbox stuff in it 
07.51.47 #       <BC|Code> ...on my hdd
07.51.57 #       <c0utta> dcc send ?
07.52.12 #       <arspy87> well i'm out, ttyl
07.52.22 #       <c0utta> c u arspy87
07.52.25 #       <BC|Code> byeeeeee
07.52.27 #       <arspy87> good luck on your coding, BC :)
07.52.31 Part    arspy87
07.52.50 #       <BC|Code> sorry, no can do, you have me blocked ;)
07.52.57 #       <c0utta> try again
07.53.03 #       <BC|Code> oop - hang on...
07.53.07 #       <BC|Code> 02-c0utta- DCC SEND RockBox-DevKit.exe 04BLOCKED01. I don't accept files of that filetype.
07.53.19 #       <BC|Code> it's a self extracting 7-zip
07.53.46 #       <c0utta> try again - i've enabled exe
07.54.54 #       <c0utta> thx BC. it'll take a while
07.55.13 #       <BC|Code> what are you doing with all your bandwidth?????
07.55.32 #       <c0utta> nothing.  i'm at 56K and have nothing else going
07.55.48 #       <BC|Code> 1.2K ...56K gives you 5K
07.56.00 #       <BC|Code> you got ftp?
07.56.06 #       <c0utta> yep
07.56.18 #       <BC|Code> I'll set you up an account - see if ftp is faster
07.56.44 #       <c0utta> ok.  i'll be in/out as i've gotta feed my midget.
07.58.03 #       <BC|Code> i'm off to bed soon - so not sure what is best
07.58.13 #       <BC|Code> it's 0700 here
08.02.27 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08.06.19 #       <c0utta> it's 17:30 here
08.06.40 #       <BC|Code> try the ftp - see if it is faster - if it is - stop the dcc
08.08.33 #       <c0utta> bizarre: Unknown host bluechip.dyndns.org:2121
08.08.56 #       <BC|Code> would much rather you did not discuss my private details publicly
08.09.04 #       <c0utta> sh*t
08.09.18 #       <BC|Code> np
08.17.34 #       <adi|home> BC|Code: not that it's a huge deal.. but you know your sign-on ip is part of the perm irc log right?
08.18.02 Join    MiChAeLoL [0] (MiChAeLoL@c-24-12-216-51.client.comcast.net)
08.19.19 #       <BC|Code> lol - oh yeahhh - never thought of that!
08.19.43 #       <BC|Code> i think it was karma for me publishing linus' email the other night ;)
08.21.59 Join    oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
08.30.55 #       <adi|home> lol
08.42.40 Quit    thu ("brb")
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09.09.41 Join    scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com)
09.24.38 Quit    scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
09.25.54 Quit    oxygen77 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09.35.49 Join    oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
09.47.51 Part    BC|Code
09.57.25 Quit    Stevenm ("Client exiting")
10.02.28 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10.12.37 #       <Strath> la la la...
10.48.27 #       <dwihno> Anyone around?
10.48.53 #       <dwihno> Zagor, Bagor, Linus? Don't tell me they STILL are on vacation ;)
10.49.26 #       <webmind> ?
10.49.41 #       <webmind> well, vacantions are important ya know
10.49.59 #       <dwihno> sure they are :)
10.50.06 Join    kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@Be194.b.pppool.de)
10.50.11 #       <dwihno> but when it comes to rockbox issues, I need to have them around ;)
10.50.19 #       <webmind> heh
10.51.05 #       <dwihno> I got a few tricks up my sleeve, but before I make the thing way TOO big, I'd like to get feedback from any of them.
11.01.23 #       <c0utta> does anyone here use win32 for their development environment ?
11.01.28 #       <dwihno> I do
11.01.39 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I do
11.01.47 #       <c0utta> excellent.
11.02.07 #       <c0utta> i was taling to bluechip and he sent me an install package
11.02.34 #       <c0utta> it creates a cygwin environment, i'm now lost
11.02.45 #       <dwihno> hm
11.02.47 #       <c0utta> i have downloaded the latest rockbox image
11.02.51 #       <dwihno> I guess it was the mini SDK
11.02.58 #       <c0utta> how do i get a compile ?
11.03.00 #       <dwihno> You need the tools.tar.bz2 as well
11.03.31 #       <kurzhaarrocker> extract your tarball somewhere in your home directory of cygwin
11.04.33 #       <c0utta> i now have 2 copies of cygwin - one using rolands old dev kit
11.04.52 #       <kurzhaarrocker> hrgh. Sounds like trouble.
11.05.01 #       <dwihno> yea.
11.07.00 Join    rastus [0] (noemail@dialup-125.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
11.07.10 #       <rastus> back.
11.07.30 #       <rastus> \nick c0utta
11.07.36 #       <rastus> whoops
11.08.09 Nick    rastus is now known as coutta (noemail@dialup-125.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
11.08.18 #       <coutta> ok.
11.08.53 #       <coutta> i want to create a stock standard rockbox environment to program within
11.09.17 #       <coutta> i'm very familiar with DOS, but know jacksh*t about linux, or cygwin
11.09.28 #       <dwihno> Well, the cygwin environment works extraordinary well.
11.09.50 #       <dwihno> But you can't have many simultaneous cygwin environments - it's bound to give you problems.
11.10.03 #       <coutta> is this as easy as a "delete"
11.10.17 #       <dwihno> there is some kind of registry key you have to erase as well
11.10.23 #       <dwihno> (or modify)
11.10.33 #       <dwihno> which reflects the home directory (or something similar9
11.19.50 #       <kurzhaarrocker> maybe the path variable as well
11.25.10 Quit    c0utta (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11.25.37 #       <kurzhaarrocker> coutta was that you alter ego who died?
11.25.57 #       <coutta> yep.
11.26.02 Nick    coutta is now known as c0utta (noemail@dialup-125.55.221.203.acc05-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
11.26.23 #       <c0utta> the registry key is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cygnus Solutions\Cygwin
11.29.19 #       <c0utta> i need to ask some basic questions.
11.29.43 #       <c0utta> when using cygwin, it seems to default to home/rockbox.  is this correct ?
11.29.46 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I don't know much about basic :)
11.30.24 #       <kurzhaarrocker> probably your installation assumes that you are user "rockbox"
11.30.50 #       <c0utta> aha.  my unix lectures from 1989 are coming back to me
11.31.00 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But it is correct that cygwin defaults to your user directory
11.31.45 #       <c0utta> under home/rockbox is where thew rockbox directory tree is stored ?
11.31.56 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
11.31.59 #       <c0utta> apps, docs, firmware & tools
11.32.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'd even make a subdirectory first as you might want to have servaral parallel development dirs
11.33.26 #       <kurzhaarrocker> eg. I have one for the spliteditor, one for triggered recording, one for user bound key schemes, ...
11.34.21 #       <c0utta> good info - i'll do that when i start working on more than 1 1project
11.34.28 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9512AA8.dip.t-dialin.net)
11.34.37 #       <c0utta> ok, how do i get a make ?
11.34.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Moin Dragon!
11.35.06 #       <kurzhaarrocker> make a build directory parallel to apps or firmware
11.35.26 #       <kurzhaarrocker> from within that directory call ../tools/configure 
11.35.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 'morning Phil, up again?
11.35.51 #       <kurzhaarrocker> [IDC]Dragon yes, my uptime is somehow random.
11.36.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you must be living alone
11.36.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> in fact
11.36.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> congrats to your split editor!
11.36.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> looks pretty nice
11.36.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what a pity that I don't record
11.37.12 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Thank you.
11.37.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> does it depend on your patch?
11.37.55 #       <kurzhaarrocker> The split editor is independent of the triggered recording patch
11.38.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are you done with it, source released?
11.38.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But there are still improvements to be made. It doesn't split on frame boundaries yet.
11.38.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (I could check it in)
11.38.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK, let's wait.
11.39.14 #       <kurzhaarrocker> That might be long as I won't have that much time within the next few weeks.
11.39.29 #       <kurzhaarrocker> If you want to commit it as it is I can upload a patch.
11.39.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> whatever you feel comfy with
11.40.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how do you mean "It doesn't split on frame boundaries yet"?
11.40.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what els?
11.40.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> else
11.40.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> just somewhere in the file?
11.40.54 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
11.41.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, hm.
11.41.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's not difficult to search for frame boundaries.
11.41.35 #       <c0utta> thanks phil.  i have a ajbrec.ajz
11.41.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I've seen some routines in mp3data
11.42.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> c0utta you're welcome. Now make many new good features. We must commit things to make the "recent cvs activity" page look right again! :)
11.43.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ;)
11.44.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no mpeg buffer commit so soon...
11.44.40 #       <c0utta> ha!  i'm going to start work on the F2/F3 menu stuff
11.44.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I woke up without _the_ big solves-it-all idea
11.45.04 #       <kurzhaarrocker> [IDC]Dragon the problem with detecting frame boundaries in the split editor is that I'd have to do it on the mp3 buffer. And I haven't found out yet how to calculate the mpeg buffer position from the file position and vica versa
11.45.22 #       <c0utta> my next question is...the simulator
11.45.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I don't understand...
11.45.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> The plugin has no access to mp3 buffer
11.46.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> aren't you working solely on file level?
11.46.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and if you write the file, it's in your hands
11.47.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I in fact had to wrap and export some mpeg.c code for determining the file position in a function and put it into the plugin api. 
11.48.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, so the plugin is not independent
11.48.19 #       <kurzhaarrocker> no, I had to extend the api in many ways
11.48.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then I won't commit it now
11.49.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> :)
11.50.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> MY picture about the mp3 buffering is a bit clearer
11.50.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we don't need to stuff everything into descriptors right away
11.51.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the source could maintain the old-fashioned ring buffer
11.51.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and just create descriptors on the fly
11.51.35 #       <kurzhaarrocker> (one thing I wondered about: It's still the task of the drain to bitswap)
11.51.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I think we need 3 minimum:
11.51.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 1) being played
11.52.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 2) ready and sitting there to be used
11.52.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 3) subject of current work: bitswap, etc.
11.52.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the bitswap is a real drawback, if I ever want to play that data again
11.53.31 #       <kurzhaarrocker> the descriptor could contain a flag 'bitswapped'
11.53.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> would be great if we could avoid it
11.54.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I was definitely thinking about such type info
11.54.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but it doesn't really help later
11.54.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if we want to scan
11.54.35 Join    matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
11.54.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Hi Mats!
11.54.51 #       <kurzhaarrocker> maybe we'll need frame detection algos for swapped _and_ unswapped data
11.54.55 #       <Strath> hello
11.55.16 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Hi from here, too
11.55.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we always think the same
11.55.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> If we bitswap early, we could do all the parsing on the swapped data
11.56.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but its probable a PITA
11.56.24 #       <kurzhaarrocker> PITA? Food?
11.56.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the opposite
11.56.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Pain In The A**
11.56.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ok, understood
11.57.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Archos seems to do the same kind of swap
11.57.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I found the table intheir software
11.58.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> another issue when not everything is linked into descriptors:
11.58.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how can we "inject" mp3 data
11.59.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if we want UI voice inbetween
11.59.44 #       <kurzhaarrocker> The drain must be interruptable.  But that's a problem with half bitswapped data chunks
12.00.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not if we bitswap early
12.00.49 #       <kurzhaarrocker> you mean when reading files?
12.01.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, when reading anything but ID info
12.02.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> hm. I'm not sure but I think there was a discussion about that before. One point against it was that that this may increase the disk uptime -> wastes energy.
12.02.31 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12.03.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you can do it after reading your big chunk
12.03.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but before passing anything down, or other work with the data
12.03.27 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
12.04.13 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But if we want to start playing early that means that we start playback before the entire data has been bitswapped.
12.04.58 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But that again could be a matter of sizing the descriptors.
12.05.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> darn!
12.05.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> probably we also start before the entire data has been read
12.05.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or at least, it would be nice.
12.06.04 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Like the first chunk is just long enough to give the source time to bitswap the 2nd , the large chunk.
12.07.02 #       <kurzhaarrocker> So while the 1st chunk is being played the swapper hast time for the 2nd chunk
12.07.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which brings us backto 2 pointers, one for swapped and another for unswapped data
12.08.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no big drawback
12.08.13 #       <kurzhaarrocker> with the difference that the pointers are wrapped in descriptors.
12.08.47 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ENCAPSULATE! JEHOVA! JEHOVA!
12.08.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not necessarily, the descriptors are just for the management in the sink.
12.09.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the source is free to do whatever in private.
12.09.28 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ok
12.09.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> descriptors are the interface
12.10.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> only data that is 'described' is locked
12.11.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> only data in the descriptor passed down is locked
12.11.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> until a callback function in there is called to return it
12.11.56 #       <kurzhaarrocker> :) a fine but not so minor difference
12.12.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which is?
12.13.11 #       <kurzhaarrocker> that you are free to discard the othewise 'described' data at will
12.13.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ahem, so?
12.15.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> ah, forget it.
12.18.36 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Assume the user wants to beep while playback. The drain is playing back in the middle of a large descriptor. How does it work? The source clears the descriptor queue, inserts the beep descriptor in the descriptor queue, sends the drain a stop (which returns the current position), the drain frees the old big chunk descriptor, the source uses that current position to create a new descriptor from the existent buffer data and inserts that into the d
12.19.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> brr
12.19.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'd like to make that independent from the source, if possible
12.20.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so the source doesn't notice
12.20.03 Join    methangas [0] (methangas@0x50c61de4.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
12.20.07 #       <kurzhaarrocker> but how do we know where to resume after beep?
12.20.20 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Ah, that's a task of the drain
12.20.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I was thinking about making these descriptors relatively small
12.20.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so you chain in your data
12.20.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and have a latency of one descriptor payload
12.21.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but pausing the current would even be more elegant
12.21.49 #       <c0utta> dwihno: do u use the simulator ?
12.21.59 #       <kurzhaarrocker> many small descriptors would increas cpu use.
12.22.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which is not too bad
12.22.22 #       <kurzhaarrocker> c0utta yes, but I can't really debug within it.
12.22.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if we just switch a desciptor a few times per second, that's nothing.
12.23.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> currently, data is passed in 8k blocks to the DMA
12.23.07 #       <c0utta> kurzhaarrocker: didn't want to disturb you and [IDC]Dragon
12.23.19 #       <c0utta> you're both going over me head
12.23.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so the software has to switch that anyway
12.23.25 #       <c0utta> me=my
12.23.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> [IDC]Dragon: you're right.
12.23.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> c0utta: sorry
12.23.49 Quit    uski (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
12.24.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how long is 8KB?
12.24.20 #       <c0utta> np.  makes my changes to f2/f3 seem sooo simple
12.24.24 Join    uski [0] (~moo@gandalf.digital-network.org)
12.24.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> half a second at 128kBit
12.25.03 #       <kurzhaarrocker> That's on the edge of being problematic for acustical feedback.
12.26.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> well, then make it 4K or whatever
12.27.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we can't be faster than one DMA buffer, have to let that pass, I think
12.27.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but you're right, it would be better if this doesn't depend on the chunks provided by the source
12.28.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which brings back the side channel
12.28.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so the sink has an extra functional interface to accept side data
12.28.39 #       <kurzhaarrocker> and that could be managed by the drain, the source wouldn't even notice
12.28.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> to be inserted after the current DMA block
12.29.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> right.
12.29.14 #       <kurzhaarrocker> problem: -> we keep track of the elapsed time manually. Makes this complicated
12.29.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what do you mena by "manually"?
12.29.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> mean
12.29.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the track is "stopwatched"?
12.30.01 #       <kurzhaarrocker> There's a timer that de facto is unsynchronized with the mas
12.30.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm
12.30.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> who's maintaining that?
12.30.35 #       <kurzhaarrocker> somewhere in mpeg.c
12.30.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> If we put it to the sink, it could correct the value
12.31.23 #       <kurzhaarrocker> but the sink doesn't even know by which source it's fed.
12.31.44 #       <kurzhaarrocker> And it knows even less about the song that is being played.
12.31.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if it has this sideband interface, it could exclude the time for playing that.
12.32.08 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes, I see.
12.32.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Yes, it won't know about songs.
12.32.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> But it could provide a clock for the main data playtime.
12.35.10 #       <kurzhaarrocker> If it is up to the drain to manage that side channel I don't see a real reason why it shouldn't interrupt even in the middle of a dma chunk.
12.35.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> dunno if that's technically possible
12.36.15 #       <kurzhaarrocker> In worst case the mas must be reset.
12.36.32 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But I'm talking about things I don't really know here.
12.36.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so do I
12.37.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I remember there were functions to start /stop dma transfer.
12.40.57 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I must work for money now. See you later...
12.41.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK, thaks.
12.41.42 Quit    kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
12.41.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> thanks
12.43.39 #       <c0utta> can i ask simulator questions now ?
12.44.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> shure, any time
12.46.06 #       <c0utta> to use the simulator, do you run configure to make another make file and select S for simulator ?
12.46.16 #       <c0utta> do you then do the make from build-dir ?
12.46.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> for which platform?
12.46.41 #       <c0utta> win32.  i'm running cygwin
12.46.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK.
12.47.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which compiler?
12.47.50 #       <c0utta> i assume it's gcc
12.48.05 #       <c0utta> i'm new to this type of environment!
12.48.06 #       <Strath> later guy....time for sleep
12.48.12 Quit    Strath ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
12.48.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you use gcc to build for the target (SH CPU)
12.48.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but for the simulator you need a Win32 compiler
12.49.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> to make a Windows program out of it
12.52.14 #       <uski> [IDC]Dragon: hi
12.52.19 #       <c0utta> is this gcc-mingw ?
12.52.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 'morning!
12.52.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> c0utta: for example, yes.
12.52.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I used MS Developer Studio
13.02.24 Join    edx [0] (edx@pD9EAA791.dip.t-dialin.net)
13.10.49 #       <c0utta> i seem to have all the required components, but can't seem to get a make
13.11.16 #       <c0utta> do i use the same source, in \home\rockbox ?
13.11.27 #       <c0utta> or do i need another copy just for the simulator ?
13.12.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I don't know about MinG
13.13.00 #       <c0utta> i don't have ms developer studio, so that's not an option.  sounds easier tho!
13.15.00 #       <c0utta> i was working with bluechip to setup my environment.  i'll wait until he's had a sleep and is back online.
13.15.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> did you try to just use make in the sim dir?
13.16.01 Join    Laurent_ [0] (~laurent@dyn-81-166-218-46.ppp.tiscali.fr)
13.16.11 #       <Laurent_> hello
13.16.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hello
13.17.21 #       <c0utta> yes, but it seems to be referring to the player, not the recorder and gives compile errors
13.17.45 #       <c0utta> don't be concerned.  as i said, i'll wait for BC as i don't want to waste everyone's time
13.17.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and if you create a make file in the build dir, with the sim options?
13.20.00 #       <c0utta> make errors
13.20.02 #       <c0utta> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `buffer.c', needed by `/home/rockbox/build-d
13.20.03 #       <c0utta> ir/.deps/buffer.d'.  Stop.
13.20.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm, I've never worked with that, sorry.
13.21.17 #       <c0utta> i've used make, but under a dos environment.  i don't feel comfortable yet
13.22.53 #       <c0utta> i have other questions about submitting patches
13.23.19 #       <c0utta> if i was working on project, would i only submit the patch when i'm complete ?
13.23.31 #       <c0utta> what if my project takes me 2 months to complete ?
13.23.53 #       <c0utta> i'm concerned that cvs and my local copy will get out of sync
13.24.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then it takes 2 month til we have your patch
13.24.02 #       <c0utta> and then be difficult to merge
13.24.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you should make a patch against the most recent
13.24.55 #       <c0utta> what it two people have made major changes to the same files ?
13.25.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then it becomes hairy
13.25.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's OK if the changes don't conflict
13.25.31 #       <c0utta> i don't like hairy..
13.26.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> when you're done with your development, you should merge your changes with the latest source
13.26.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then make a patch from it
13.26.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and clearly state the cvs version/date the patch is for
13.27.25 #       <c0utta> is it a common practice to split a project into phases and incrementally submit patches ?
13.27.36 #       <c0utta> to ensure that nothing's broken ?
13.29.24 #       <c0utta> i sound weird, don;t i ?
13.29.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not really, what should a patch of something half-done be good for?
13.30.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what major rework are you doing?
13.30.33 #       <c0utta> i'll give you an example.  i'm currently working on changes to F2/F3 functionality
13.31.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> a very common thing to do
13.31.45 #       <c0utta> i want to do the whole user-config F2/F3 that everyone seems to want
13.32.11 #       <c0utta> firstly, i want to insert my own functions as wrappers to the existing f2/f3 functionality
13.32.45 #       <c0utta> within my wrapper i can then do my own coding within worrying about breaking anyone elses
13.41.05 Quit    matsl (Remote closed the connection)
13.41.53 #       <c0utta> anyway jörg, i appreciate all the work you've done
13.42.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> thank you!
13.42.35 #       <c0utta> the flashing is excellent, particularly your attention to detail
13.42.49 #       <c0utta> i can't believe the video either
13.43.20 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13.43.20 #       * uski should try the video some day
13.43.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you haven't?
13.43.43 #       <uski> nah
13.43.44 #       <c0utta> uski: you won't believe it
13.44.12 #       <uski> i suppose i won't, knowing what joerg is able to do...
13.44.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> scared of the download?
13.44.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> get the stills
13.44.27 #       <uski> nah
13.44.28 #       <c0utta> the video is so smooth - i was amazed
13.44.38 #       <uski> hmmm where can it be downloaded ?
13.44.44 #       <uski> is there a sample movie with it ?
13.44.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> a few
13.45.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 2 stills and the doom clip
13.46.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> http://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/doom/
13.46.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> get small.zip
13.50.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no need for the provided .ajz any more, since the video player is in the daily build
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14.02.33 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14.06.20 #       <uski> ok [IDC]Dragon, ill try later on the dat
14.06.22 #       <uski> day*
14.06.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK
14.15.08 Join    kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@Be543.b.pppool.de)
14.19.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that was quick money!
14.19.45 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I just had to update a few sources I forgot ...
14.20.27 #       <kurzhaarrocker> btw: what does [IDC] stand for?
14.20.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that's a stupid story
14.21.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I once created an email account for LAN parties
14.21.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> later used it as my spam account
14.21.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> more later for the group
14.22.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's a clan shortcut, Instant Death Commando.
14.22.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> :)
14.23.23 #       <kurzhaarrocker> hm. Lets found a new clan: [RLD] :)
14.23.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> tell that to Björn
14.25.14 #       <kurzhaarrocker> sources updatet, must work again. See you
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14.25.51 Join    Guest [0] (~jirc@218.50.30.162)
14.26.10 #       <Guest> Mmm... hello?
14.26.37 #       <Guest> Is anyone here?
14.26.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
14.27.03 #       <Guest> Cool... can I ask a question about Rockbox ?
14.27.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I guess that's what this channel is for
14.28.02 #       <Guest> :) my first time... I have a Recorder model, and Rockbox is great... just I've run into a strange problem just now
14.28.27 #       <Guest> I made a bunch of file folders to organize my mp3 files, but out of the 15 or so folders, only 3 or 4 show up
14.28.53 #       <Guest> They all show up on the computer when connected thru USB, but not only the Recorder itself
14.29.18 #       <Guest> So I can't access the folders and the songs inside to play them
14.29.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm, strange indeed.
14.30.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are they hidden?
14.30.05 #       <Guest> Tell me about it...
14.30.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> do you use F2: show all files?
14.30.27 #       <Guest> On the Recorder, there's no sign of the folders except the 3 that are visible (they were the first 3 I made)
14.30.32 #       <Guest> Yes!
14.30.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> scandisk?
14.30.50 #       <Guest> I tried it too, but no difference
14.31.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> maybe you found a bug in the file system
14.31.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> tell Linus about it
14.31.18 #       <Guest> Sigh...
14.31.24 #       <Guest> OK
14.31.50 #       <Guest> Thanks for trying :)
14.31.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Can there be anything special about them?
14.32.07 #       <Guest> Well, the files that show up were made a few days ago, the others were all made today
14.32.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Name too long, nesting too deep, whatever?
14.32.25 #       <Guest> Does the length of the file folder name make a difference?
14.32.37 #       <Guest> But it's strange, some folders' names ARE long, but others are quite short
14.32.42 #       <Guest> And they all don't show up
14.32.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not really, unless it's ridiculously long
14.32.56 #       <Guest> hmm
14.33.39 #       <Guest> Thanks :)
14.33.45 Quit    Guest ("Leaving")
14.34.50 #       <c0utta> jörg, maybe guests folders had extensions on them
14.35.11 #       <c0utta> maybe ACDC.123
14.35.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> would that be harmful?
14.36.36 #       <c0utta> would they get filtered with "Show files" since the had extensions ?
14.37.32 #       <c0utta> if they had extensions ?
14.37.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> dunno
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16.50.00 #       <Laurent_> does anyone know of a program that xors a file against a given number ?
16.50.33 #       <Laurent_> i'm writing one right now but if a known one already exists I guess that'd be better :)
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17.34.23 #       <Laurent_> hi kurz
17.34.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Hi Laurent_
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18.02.36 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18.19.21 #       <Laurent_> ok, I think I have the "unencrypted" gmini firmware now
18.19.49 #       <Laurent_> time for a mail
18.19.51 #       <Laurent_> :)
18.28.17 Join    diddystar5 [0] (Lee@ACC37F1A.ipt.aol.com)
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19.25.41 Join    AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
19.27.04 #       <diddystar5> does anyone know how to install the min cygwin dev invroment on a drive other than C:/?
19.27.42 #       <diddystar5> edit the reg entries?
19.30.55 #       <diddystar5> dosent work
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19.37.17 Join    kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@Be197.b.pppool.de)
19.41.57 #       <diddystar5> kurzhaarrocker: your patch is great!
19.42.11 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Thanks
19.42.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> But there is still room for improvements.
19.42.58 #       <MiChAeLoL> ever get sound with the video working?
19.43.28 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I assume somewhen that will happen.
19.43.54 #       <diddystar5> that will be tricky to get the video+sound to sync
19.44.19 #       <diddystar5> with the way the video slows down so much when sound buffer refills
19.44.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I think the idea is to multiplex the video file.
19.44.57 #       <diddystar5> i think if it just constantly loads sound like with the video it may work
19.45.02 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I know that there was a discussion about storing all the settings in a config file instead of the rtc / superblock. Does anybody know wether something happened already?
19.45.31 #       <diddystar5> i never saw anything on that disscusion
19.46.16 #       <diddystar5> but i ignore many disscusion in the mail i get :)
19.46.42 #       <diddystar5> i just pick the interesting topics
19.47.00 #       <kurzhaarrocker> So do I
19.47.44 #       <kurzhaarrocker> diddystar5 have you already _used_ that triggered recording?
19.48.05 #       <diddystar5> kurzhaarrocker: no, but i looked at the code
19.48.35 #       <diddystar5> i dont update my builds very often
19.48.42 #       <diddystar5> usualy once a week
19.49.28 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I try to update whenever something happened. 
19.49.49 #       <diddystar5> heh    i used to do that, but it just got tired of it
19.50.17 #       <diddystar5> i used to make really cool build with lots of patches and my custom boot logo, but i just got tired of it
19.50.54 #       <diddystar5> and for the time, im sure lots of people would have liked to try them, they were very good builds
19.51.03 #       <diddystar5> i should have realesed them
19.51.34 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I had big trouble sometimes when I developed things and didn't update regularily. If it wasn't for keeping patches up to date I wouldn't update much either.
19.56.28 #       <diddystar5> i wish windows would use the / instead of \, its easier for me to type with that, and its agrivating when you type the wrong one and cant figure out whats wrong
19.57.20 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Whatever they use I wish it was the same in both environments.
20.01.10 #       <diddystar5> ooh man i forgot when i installed windows on my new hd to run win update
20.01.23 #       <diddystar5> now im getting annoying messages in messenger thing
20.01.47 #       <kurzhaarrocker> hrgh
20.02.38 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20.03.42 #       <diddystar5> microsoft is dumb
20.03.53 #       <diddystar5> if they just made it right the first time.....
20.04.41 Nick    edx{code} is now known as edx{visited} (edx@pD9EAA520.dip.t-dialin.net)
20.05.02 #       <kurzhaarrocker> you have to make the same mistake many times before you master it.
20.05.55 #       <diddystar5> who cares about win media player updates....   who gives a SHIT about it?
20.06.10 #       <diddystar5> i wish i could just remove the bastard
20.07.06 #       <diddystar5> 9.9 mb of updates.....
20.07.25 #       <diddystar5> (that takes a long time to get on 56k!)
20.07.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> you too use an anachronism like that?:)
20.09.54 #       * diddystar5 looks up anachronism in google deskbar
20.10.04 #       <diddystar5> yes i do
20.10.46 #       <diddystar5> i need to get a kernel update for my linux
20.10.53 #       <diddystar5> its 32mb.....
20.11.01 #       <diddystar5> everything is just to big
20.11.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Things like that I only download when I'm in the office...
20.12.06 #       <diddystar5> My old school had a T1 line, (about 450-600 kb's) download, and they had a few computer with cd burners
20.12.22 #       <diddystar5> to bad i dont go to that school anymore....
20.12.40 Join    hardeep [0] (1098@208.247.65.237)
20.12.53 #       <diddystar5> hey hardeep
20.13.01 #       <hardeep> heya
20.13.04 #       <hardeep> happy new year
20.13.14 #       <diddystar5> hardeep: happy new year!
20.13.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Bang Bumm Paff!
20.13.27 #       <diddystar5> hardeep: want to see my vu meter code with log scale?
20.13.28 #       * kurzhaarrocker launches a rocket
20.14.03 #       <diddystar5> heh      oregon has banned almost all fireworks
20.14.16 #       <diddystar5> about all you can use are sparklerrs, and ahh sparklers
20.14.27 #       <kurzhaarrocker> diddystar5: lucky you: you didn't have to do all the scaling in db.
20.14.32 #       <diddystar5> cant even use roman candles
20.14.36 #       <Laurent_> shit, french law's not that easy on reverse engineering
20.14.48 #       <hardeep> diddystar5: maybe later?
20.14.59 #       <diddystar5> hardeep: ok
20.15.01 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Laurent_ what happened?
20.15.33 #       <diddystar5> kurzhaarrocker: what do you mean by scaling in dB?
20.15.40 #       <Laurent_> I am reading the Code of intellectual property in order to know if I can publish what i've found on the gmini
20.15.55 #       <kurzhaarrocker> diddystar5 db = logarithmic
20.15.58 #       <diddystar5> kurzhaarrocker: n/m
20.16.34 #       <Laurent_> and some conditions must be met first in order to be allowed to disassemble/decrypt the firmware as well as publish it
20.18.28 #       <Laurent_> some are ok (the goal : interoperability with rockbox firmware, the right to use the firmware : i'm a legitimate user)
20.20.17 #       <Laurent_> some are a bit restricting : publication of informations is allowed only to people who need it to work on the interoperability, this means that it can't be published on the list, only sent to individual developers working to have the rockbox firmware loaded on the gmini
20.21.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Laurent_: a disclaimer doesn't so here?
20.21.46 #       <Laurent_> but there are more subtle ones 
20.22.34 #       <Laurent_> The informations obtained (via disassembly) can't be used to design, produce, or commercialize a program which "does something" similar [to the disassembled one]
20.23.24 #       <diddystar5> Laurent_: go to some small country with a laptop and report your findings :)
20.23.25 #       <Laurent_> this point is the big problem
20.23.49 #       <Laurent_> diddystar5: and I won't be able to come back to France before ten years have passed ;)
20.23.53 #       <diddystar5> just make sure they have no laws on reverse ingineringh
20.24.13 #       <Laurent_> and no extradition laws ;)
20.24.13 #       <diddystar5> Laurent_: n/m then :)
20.25.54 #       <Laurent_> so I guess I need a lawyer there
20.27.36 #       <Laurent_> to make sure that rockbox would not be considered as "something similar"
20.27.49 #       <Laurent_> anyone knows one ?
20.27.50 #       <Laurent_> ;)
20.28.07 #       <Laurent_> I'm pretty sure it's ok though
20.28.11 Join    midknight2k3 [0] (zakk@ACC69AF1.ipt.aol.com)
20.28.16 #       <midknight2k3> hi all
20.28.22 #       <diddystar5> midknight2k3!
20.28.26 #       <midknight2k3> hardeep: are you there?
20.28.30 #       <midknight2k3> hey diddystar5
20.28.38 #       <Laurent_> since rockbox would only work on already sold devices, which does not hurt archos (except for the fucking plugins)
20.28.41 #       <midknight2k3> packed in here today
20.28.46 #       <Laurent_> hi midknight2k3
20.28.52 #       <midknight2k3> hi laurent
20.30.48 #       <hardeep> midknight2k3: present
20.31.12 #       <midknight2k3> :) hardeep, do we have any sort of function to spin down the disk?
20.31.18 #       <midknight2k3> disk_spindown(); or such?
20.31.37 #       <midknight2k3> i recall seeing something like that in the source before but never found it again
20.31.41 #       <hardeep> midknight2k3: yeah, i think that's the function name
20.31.45 #       <hardeep> one sec
20.32.05 #       <midknight2k3> great
20.32.08 #       <midknight2k3> thanks
20.32.56 #       <Laurent_> geez
20.33.17 #       <Laurent_> that sucks
20.33.30 #       <midknight2k3> ?
20.33.43 #       <hardeep> midknight2k3: ata_spindown(-1) will force an immediate spindown
20.33.44 #       <Laurent_> at least what I did is legal, but that point must be made clear first
20.34.06 #       <midknight2k3> hardeep: thanks!
20.34.53 #       <Laurent_> and there's also the distinction between interoperability with the hardware and with the software : interoperability with the hardware is ok, but interoperability with the software is not so clear because rockbox does the same than the archos firmware
20.35.08 #       <midknight2k3> everyone: back in a minute ok
20.35.29 Quit    midknight2k3 ()
20.36.15 #       <Laurent_> well, i guess i'm lucky a friend of my parents knows lots of lawyers at least
20.37.11 Join    midknight2k3 [0] (zakk@ACC69AF1.ipt.aol.com)
20.37.17 #       <midknight2k3> back
20.40.01 Join    Strath [0] (~firewalle@dgvlwinas01pool0-a196.wi.tds.net)
20.40.21 #       <Strath> hello Laurent_
20.40.27 #       <midknight2k3> hi Strath
20.40.56 #       <Strath> hey idiiiiii
20.41.14 #       <midknight2k3> er
20.41.16 #       <Strath> hrmm.... hose weren't the right key
20.41.25 #       <Strath> hhhhhey midi
20.41.30 #       <Strath> wth..
20.41.39 #       <midknight2k3> midi
20.41.42 #       <midknight2k3> i like that
20.41.46 #       <Laurent_> hi Strath
20.42.14 #       <Strath> i thn i ran my keyboareds batterrrrrrrrrries dea when i fell asleep whiiil typng
20.42.25 #       <hardeep> midnight2k3: actually, a better call would be ata_sleep()
20.42.29 #       <midknight2k3> go get new batteries
20.42.37 #       <midknight2k3> ata_sleep it is then
20.42.37 #       <Strath> llllllllllllury!!!!!!!!!!
20.42.38 #       <midknight2k3> thanks
20.42.58 #       <Strath> ok, ok... new batteries...
20.43.00 #       <Laurent_> anyone has a good pointer on the DMCA ?
20.43.15 #       <Laurent_> (everyone should have one) ;)
20.43.17 #       <midknight2k3> they are vampired
20.43.21 #       <Strath> besides reading it in it's entirety?
20.43.52 #       <Laurent_> Strath: what do you mean 
20.43.53 #       <Laurent_> ?
20.44.31 #       <midknight2k3> Will this work in the archos??
20.44.32 #       <midknight2k3> Form Factor: 2.5" x 1/8H - internal 
20.44.34 #       <midknight2k3> hard drive
20.44.52 #       <hardeep> what's the length?
20.45.02 #       <midknight2k3> Dimensions (WxDxH):  2.8 in x 3.9 in x 0.4 in 
20.45.28 #       <Strath> well, whats the prob with the DMCA?
20.46.01 Join    pfavr [0] (~pfavr@192.38.163.41)
20.46.14 #       <Strath> (sorry, whent to change the battiries without having fresh handy
20.46.40 #       <Laurent_> Strath: huh, no prob, I just wanted to have a look at it, but a google search will be fine ;)
20.46.56 #       <Laurent_> in order to compare it to french law
20.48.00 #       <hardeep> midknight2k3: depends on how they rounded the 0.4 in (H)
20.48.06 #       <hardeep> it needs to be 9.5mm
20.51.25 #       <Strath> so Laury... I've been sitting here for three days, it's about time you showup
20.52.43 Quit    c0utta (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20.53.40 #       <midknight2k3> thx hardeep
20.53.42 #       <Strath> I got my gmini only a couple days after you
20.54.53 #       <Strath> how are your efforts going?
20.55.15 #       <midknight2k3> hardeep: then this one works. right?
20.55.16 #       <midknight2k3> http://store.yahoo.com/directron/tos4gbnotide.html
20.57.18 #       <Strath> is it a common practise to rasterize your prices?
20.57.37 #       <Strath> (gotta disapper for a few minutes...)
20.57.41 #       <midknight2k3> strath: sdd
20.59.04 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I haven't won enough prices yet to rasterize them
21.01.24 #       <Strath> heh
21.05.20 #       <hardeep> midknight2k3: yeah, that one will work
21.07.24 #       <diddystar5> bye everyone
21.07.36 #       <kurzhaarrocker> see you
21.07.44 Quit    diddystar5 ("Leaving")
21.09.22 #       <Laurent_> Strath: oops sorry was writing an email tothe list summing up where I find myself
21.10.33 #       <Laurent_> Strath: I need lawyer advice before publishing anything and that sucks, moreover the plugin system might prevent rockbox from being legal on the gmini
21.11.24 #       <Laurent_> but if there's some uncertainty i think i'll take the risk
21.12.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> See you later
21.12.47 Quit    kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
21.12.48 #       <midknight2k3> bye kurzhaarrocker
21.12.52 #       <midknight2k3> grr
21.15.35 #       <Laurent_> why grr ?
21.15.42 #       <Laurent_> ah ok, because you were a bit late ;)
21.16.10 #       <midknight2k3> yes
21.16.10 #       <midknight2k3> a bit
21.16.14 #       <midknight2k3> one second too late
21.16.18 #       <midknight2k3> less than a second
21.16.29 #       <Laurent_> so that excuses you
21.16.30 #       <Laurent_> :)
21.16.41 #       <midknight2k3> :D
21.17.18 #       <Laurent_> what pisses me off in this law problem, is that publication of informations is restricted even if getting those informations was trivial
21.18.02 #       <Laurent_> what's the point of forbidding the publications of informations that everybody could find easily by himself ?
21.18.16 #       <midknight2k3> it's idiotical
21.18.27 #       <Laurent_> yup
21.18.50 #       <Laurent_> I wonder if going to court would help create some jurisprudence on this point
21.18.54 #       <Strath> ok,, ok i'm back
21.19.52 Quit    leapingfrog (Connection timed out)
21.21.00 #       <Strath> i think the gmini wud make a nice act of civil disobediance
21.21.35 #       <Strath> unjust laws must be struck down
21.21.58 #       <Laurent_> no, i'm a firm believer that if law's stupid them it must be fought with legal means
21.22.41 #       <Strath> ok... so you disagree with gandi's methods?
21.22.50 #       <Laurent_> no
21.23.05 #       <Laurent_> I agree that unjust laws must be struck down
21.23.37 Join    leapingfrog [0] (~idavies@host81-129-3-78.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
21.24.16 #       <Strath> and how do you expect that to come about when the ones enforcing the unjust laws put the unjust laws on the books?
21.24.52 #       <Laurent_> I only know that revolutions end in blood baths :)
21.25.33 #       <Strath> atleast the survivors will be clean :)
21.25.40 #       <Laurent_> Strath: the law is not unjust, it is somewhat not specific enough, building a jurisprudence around the points where it's not clear is a possible solution
21.25.48 #       <Laurent_> but that involves going to court
21.26.59 #       <Strath> who do you think would triumph? saging old money grubing suits of young enpassioned revolutionaries?/
21.27.21 #       <Strath> s/of/or
21.28.06 Quit    ely78373 ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 2520")
21.28.20 #       <Laurent_> neither, but young active citizens using the legal system could do it and indeed do it, see DVD Jon
21.28.52 #       <Strath> you are french arn't you?
21.29.02 #       <Laurent_> true
21.29.10 #       <Strath> oy oy oy....
21.29.39 #       <Laurent_> why ?
21.29.40 #       <Strath> why must it be always by the book?!?
21.29.58 Join    trackkk [0] (jirc@ACBFD14D.ipt.aol.com)
21.30.09 #       <Strath> the US/world is in need of a revolution
21.30.11 #       <Laurent_> because it causes the less pain
21.30.32 #       <Strath> long term or short term?
21.30.40 #       <Laurent_> all of them ;)
21.31.14 #       <Strath> little pain * many years >= big pain * few years
21.31.28 #       <Laurent_> nobody needs revolution, everybody must take care of evolution, it's because they fail that revolution happen. for the worse
21.32.09 #       <Laurent_> I guess you would have been happy in the USSR then ;)
21.32.27 #       <Strath> letting things like to DMCA stand will lead to further injustices
21.32.43 #       <Strath> evolution is dead...
21.32.49 #       <Laurent_> Strath: have you ever tried to write your congress representative ?
21.32.54 #       <trackkk> Hi
21.32.57 #       <Strath> at least as far as humans are concerned
21.33.31 #       <Strath> just cause i opose copyright laws?
21.34.10 #       <midknight2k3> ATTENTION!
21.34.12 #       <Laurent_> yes to explain him you want him to reject the DMCA
21.34.20 #       <Laurent_> midknight2k3:  ?
21.34.22 #       <midknight2k3> look at the end of tracks name
21.34.24 #       <midknight2k3> he is evil
21.34.27 #       <midknight2k3> theres three k's
21.34.31 #       <Laurent_> ;)
21.34.33 #       <Strath> no... i'm just a proponent of restoring copyright to some semblence of sanity
21.35.01 #       <Strath> maybe he just likes 311?
21.35.13 #       <midknight2k3> hes EVILL
21.35.51 #       <Laurent_> Strath: then writing to your representative to tell him just that is a way to go :)
21.36.10 #       <Strath> no but since the system is broken, i'm in favor of chucking it and starting over
21.37.03 #       <Strath> unfortunatly, most of the population are fat ignorant sheep
21.37.31 #       <Laurent_> the system is broken because people are too lazy just to do the simplest things, such as writing a letter, which gives full impunity to people who abuse it, your country is what you make it
21.37.42 Quit    scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
21.37.48 #       <Laurent_> as is mine :
21.37.52 Join    arspy87 [0] (~arspy87@h00062598fa3b.ne.client2.attbi.com)
21.38.06 #       <Strath> either way....
21.38.07 #       <arspy87> hey
21.38.23 #       <Strath> i refuse to follow unjust laws
21.38.48 #       <Strath> though i wont go out of my way to break them... 
21.39.11 #       <Laurent_> no problem, then use just ones that say there are representative with which people should talk to to express their desires
21.39.21 #       <Laurent_> just = "the just"
21.40.24 #       <Laurent_> before revoluting there a lot of middle choice alternatives that must be tried before, revolution is an extreme that must be used only when everything else has failed, at least that's my point
21.40.32 #       <Strath> ya... but in the meantime i should just abandon my projects?
21.41.00 #       <Strath> if so, then they've already won
21.41.02 #       <Laurent_> what are your projects ?
21.41.20 #       <Strath> i was speaking hypotheticly
21.41.31 #       <Laurent_> dont speak, act ;)
21.42.15 #       <Strath> (besides ongoing reverse engineering projects, media protability projects etc )
21.42.53 #       <Strath> and that is what i'm doing by continuing my projects reguardless of the law
21.43.10 #       <Strath> actions not words
21.44.02 #       <Strath> though bush/ashcroft have got to go
21.44.07 #       <Laurent_> I think that being one sided is a bad thing, you should do both : use legal means to defend your rights, ie your vote, your representatives, support associations such as the EFF and ACLU and continue your projects
21.44.26 #       <Strath> hey... i donate to EFF
21.44.33 #       <arspy87> g2g now ttyl
21.44.44 #       <Laurent_> Strath: so you're not a true revolutionnary
21.44.45 #       <Laurent_> ;)
21.44.46 #       <Strath> (what little i can...)
21.44.59 #       <Laurent_> not all hope is lost then ;)
21.45.04 #       <Strath> verbaly, yes... :P
21.45.12 Quit    arspy87 ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
21.45.43 #       <Strath> nah... i just like taking contrary sides to commonly held views :)
21.46.02 #       <Laurent_> so do I ;)
21.46.28 #       <Laurent_> expecting the revolution is becoming a more and more commonly held view ;)
21.46.45 #       <Strath> heh... i knew i saw some similarities in the archives
21.47.26 #       <Strath> i've read up all the archives since you posted about a week ago
21.47.31 #       <Laurent_> and ?
21.47.43 #       <Laurent_> irc archives ?
21.48.06 #       <Strath> ya... well your text
21.48.17 #       <Strath> ctrl-f Laurent_
21.48.27 #       <Laurent_> ah, yup, I always make the same english mistakes I guess
21.48.30 #       <Laurent_> ;)
21.48.50 #       <Strath> and the mailing list archives
21.49.20 #       <Strath> so are backing down from your initial brovado?
21.49.45 #       <Strath> regaurding the reverse engineering of the gmini?
21.50.17 #       <Laurent_> no, I'm just seeking legal advice before going to court :)
21.50.35 #       <midknight2k3> laurent: court?!
21.50.46 #       <Strath> (oh i meant simlarities in our thoughts)
21.51.03 #       <Laurent_> midknight2k3: I think it can't be avoided, archos probably choosed the plugin models to make it unavoidable
21.51.17 #       <Strath> hrm...
21.52.19 #       <Strath> off topic, if i wanted to protect the firmware for a device, what type of protections do you think i should use?
21.52.20 #       <midknight2k3> aff
21.52.24 #       <midknight2k3> dds
21.52.30 #       <midknight2k3> protect?
21.52.48 #       <Laurent_> faith
21.52.49 #       <Laurent_> ;)
21.53.06 #       <Strath> and which should I not use?
21.53.07 #       <midknight2k3> CRC CHECKSUM, AWAY!
21.53.17 #       <Laurent_> xor
21.53.20 #       <midknight2k3> crc checksum
21.53.29 #       <Strath> really?
21.53.49 #       <Strath> wow, that would be dumb
21.54.07 #       <midknight2k3> strath: who?
21.54.20 #       <Laurent_> why would you protect a firmware ? laws protect it already
21.54.24 #       <Strath> i  sure wouldn't want somebody hacking my firmware!!!
21.54.57 #       <Strath> so you think a simple xor would handle that?
21.55.17 #       <midknight2k3> NO! CRC CHECKSUM!
21.55.26 #       <Laurent_> an xor with a key the size of the firmware is unbreakable ;) but any other is crap ;)
21.55.52 #       <midknight2k3> strath, wait
21.55.58 #       <Strath> but for the law to apply, i have to at least make a show of "effective control"
21.56.00 #       <midknight2k3> you're going to make new firmware but not open source>
21.56.08 #       <midknight2k3> ?
21.57.05 #       <Strath> shush midi
21.57.17 #       <Strath> that just might work...
21.57.21 #       <midknight2k3> grr
21.57.21 #       <Laurent_> good question that ;)
21.58.03 #       <Strath> well... in these digital days, ya gotta watch your ass
21.58.21 #       <midknight2k3> strath: not open source then? boo
21.58.26 #       <midknight2k3> :)
21.58.50 #       <Strath> hrm...
21.59.27 #       <Laurent_> no, he's trying to have me tell how to decrypt the gmini firmware :)
21.59.57 #       <midknight2k3> wait
22.00.03 #       <midknight2k3> laurent can but strath needs info?
22.00.07 #       <midknight2k3> ah nm forget me
22.00.15 #       <Strath> oh, hrm, you mean a key as large as the firmware? or a key being the length of the firmware?
22.00.50 #       <Laurent_> hrm, let's make it clear : this is not a hint I'm giving you ;)
22.01.25 #       <Laurent_> a xor key the length of the firmware would be unbreakable, hence the gmini does not use such one or I couldn't have broken it
22.01.30 Quit    Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22.01.35 Join    Strath_ [0] (~firewalle@dgvlwinas01pool0-a196.wi.tds.net)
22.02.05 #       <Strath_> grr..
22.02.17 #       <Strath_> stupid dialup
22.02.22 #       <midknight2k3> :D
22.02.31 Nick    Strath_ is now known as strath (~firewalle@dgvlwinas01pool0-a196.wi.tds.net)
22.02.40 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22.03.04 #       <Laurent_> if you want to disassemble the gmini firmware, that's simple : get an hexadecimal/ascii editor, you'll get the basic structure
22.03.25 #       <strath> well, i see it's a RIFF
22.04.02 #       <Laurent_> to decrypt the firmware code you'll just need to watch for patterns in the code and a bit of logic, look diagonally
22.04.15 #       <strath> heh
22.05.27 #       <Laurent_> what do you want to run on the gmini ?
22.05.30 #       <strath> hrm...
22.05.50 Part    pfavr
22.06.25 #       <strath> pda type stuff
22.06.41 #       <Laurent_> similar to me
22.06.50 #       <strath> heh
22.06.52 #       <Laurent_> hey wait
22.06.59 #       <Laurent_> that's legal
22.07.08 #       <strath> really?!?
22.07.31 #       <Laurent_> yes, it's not a "similar" product, sofrench law allows it
22.07.35 #       <Laurent_> without doubt
22.07.45 #       <strath> sweet
22.08.30 #       <Laurent_> rockbox **might** be illegal since it does the same than the original firmware, but a pda style software would be fully legal since it does not overlap with the original firmware
22.08.45 #       <Laurent_> (all this in France)
22.09.36 #       <strath> why? are there any other contries laws you are bound by?
22.09.53 #       <Laurent_> in the USA, I think the DMCA allows full disassembly as for xbox linux
22.10.11 #       <strath> so i'm fine as well
22.10.14 #       <Laurent_> i'm only bound by french law and european one
22.11.02 #       <Laurent_> european law sometimes supercedes local legislations but that's not the case yet in this domain
22.12.16 #       <Laurent_> you're fine as long as your software does not offer features sold by archos as plugins
22.12.39 #       <Laurent_> hrm
22.12.42 #       <strath> thats the intent..
22.13.32 #       <Laurent_> this makes me think, rockbox might be fine in France on the gmini as long as it does not offer such features neither
22.13.58 #       <strath> so, i'm not seeing this diagnal pattern of which was spoken
22.14.25 #       <Laurent_> huh ? use a line width of 16 bytes
22.14.26 #       <strath> that was my thought as well
22.14.50 #       <strath> ah... 
22.15.11 #       <Laurent_> it's visible at the very end but also many other places
22.15.52 Join    BC|Code [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
22.16.19 #       <midknight2k3> bluey
22.16.23 #       <BC|Code> MIKKI
22.16.29 #       <midknight2k3> no dont call me that
22.16.39 #       <BC|Code> okay
22.16.49 #       <BC|Code> apologies
22.16.52 #       <midknight2k3> :)
22.16.58 #       <Laurent_> mikki's funny ;)
22.16.59 #       <strath> EylmRC?
22.17.37 #       <BC|Code> there was a "fine" , "blowing" joke coming up for it too :(
22.17.57 #       <Laurent_> strath: which firmware are you looking at ? I studied 1.20 only :)
22.17.57 Nick    BC|Code is now known as Bluechip (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
22.18.08 #       <midknight2k3> afad bluey
22.18.23 #       <strath> heh
22.19.05 #       <strath> hrm... line with of 17 looks interesting
22.19.06 #       <Laurent_> strath: in v1.50 it's also present though not at the end
22.19.16 #       <Laurent_> yes 17 is *very* interesting
22.19.30 #       <Laurent_> you'll see vertical lines with it
22.19.43 #       <strath> heh
22.20.35 #       <Bluechip> kurz been in tonight?
22.20.46 #       <midknight2k3> yes
22.20.48 #       <midknight2k3> was just
22.20.55 #       <strath> 15 minutes break
22.21.06 #       <Laurent_> strath: which editor are you using btw ?
22.21.53 #       <Bluechip> cheers mk, and darn!  did he say if he would be back?
22.22.01 #       <midknight2k3> 12:12:47 | * kurzhaarrocker has quit IRC
22.22.08 #       <midknight2k3> 1h 8m ago
22.23.59 #       <midknight2k3> didnt say
22.24.01 #       <midknight2k3> i dont think
22.24.21 #       <Laurent_> hrm, I see another thing that could help not breaching the law
22.24.21 #       <Bluechip> hey, mk, your code is a BITCH to patch
22.24.22 #       <midknight2k3> didnt no
22.24.26 #       <midknight2k3> ?
22.24.28 #       <midknight2k3> why
22.24.45 #       <Laurent_> breaking the la
22.24.47 #       <Laurent_> law
22.24.59 #       <Bluechip> you've used M$ format text files
22.25.13 #       <midknight2k3> oh no
22.25.18 #       <midknight2k3> ...
22.25.20 #       <midknight2k3> meaning?
22.25.21 #       <midknight2k3> :)
22.25.44 #       <Bluechip> CR/LF pairs on the end of line
22.25.50 Quit    trackkk ("Leaving")
22.26.17 #       <Laurent_> it might be as simple as sending a letter to Archos requesting informations on how to load any kind of software on the gmini
22.26.20 #       <midknight2k3> er
22.26.25 #       <midknight2k3> laurent: yes
22.26.42 #       <midknight2k3> bluechip: sorry
22.26.43 #       <Laurent_> since this gives anyone the right to get those informations by disassembling if Archos refuses to do so
22.27.07 #       <Laurent_> under french law
22.28.37 #       <Laurent_> but the plugin issue remains, a conservative judge might consider it enough to declare the whole thing illegal
22.28.51 #       <strath> i'm wondering what taking one byte, xoring it with the next 16 would acomplish
22.29.00 #       <midknight2k3> bluechip: are you patching it?
22.29.30 #       <Bluechip> mk, not to fix the bugs, just to make it work with the sim
22.29.41 #       <midknight2k3> WHAT BUGS
22.29.56 #       <strath> hexworkshop 
22.29.57 #       <Bluechip> btw - awsome clock font/graphics
22.30.02 #       <Laurent_> strath: nothing interesting
22.30.08 #       <Laurent_> strath: under windows ?
22.30.17 #       <strath> i've bought a registration for it... great tool
22.30.21 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9512B01.dip.t-dialin.net)
22.30.26 #       <Bluechip> mk,  example, can only ever get help once
22.30.27 #       <midknight2k3> bc: 7 segmet digital was Linus' work
22.30.29 #       <midknight2k3> hi IDC
22.30.32 #       <strath> unfortunatly...
22.30.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hi
22.30.43 #       <Bluechip> hi dragon
22.30.55 #       <strath> though i've been using linux on my servers for at least 7 years
22.30.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> BC: not at work?
22.31.07 #       <Bluechip> 21:31 here
22.31.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> an hour later here
22.31.45 #       <Bluechip> thought i'd sit and have a smoke and a chat before i did any more coding
22.32.13 #       <midknight2k3> Bluechip: what bugs?
22.32.19 #       <strath> yay! go smokers!
22.32.21 #       <Bluechip> finished the advance stereo seperation screen at last 
22.32.26 #       <midknight2k3> OOH YAYT
22.32.28 #       <midknight2k3> YAY
22.32.38 #       <strath> hrm... nothing interesting eh?
22.32.40 DBUG    Enqueued KICK Bluechip
22.32.40 #       <Bluechip> 01<Bluechip> mk,  example, can only ever get help once 
22.32.52 #       <midknight2k3> oh
22.33.20 #       <Bluechip> Dragon, do you have any thought on what we might use for the Dynamic Bass in USER mode
22.33.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what's USER mode?
22.34.08 #       <strath> laur: you         have much asm experience?
22.34.21 #       <Bluechip> well techie mode is gonna be full access to the registers, hopefully with a realtime graph
22.34.30 #       <Laurent_> some but not yet with the gmini's cpu
22.34.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I don't know your screen
22.35.21 #       <strath> ya... i taught mself m68k and had a course in x86
22.35.27 #       <Laurent_> strath: I haven't been able to find its machine language yet, I am in contact with samsung and telechips to get it, I need to fill an excel sheet with informations about myself and return them
22.35.43 #       <Bluechip> dragon: the user would have no interest in full configuration of the MDB, linus suggested centre-freq & strength
22.35.44 #       <midknight2k3> cool bluechip
22.35.56 #       <midknight2k3> we can do center freq and stuff?
22.35.57 #       <midknight2k3> wow
22.36.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Laurent_: you don't know the cpu yet?
22.36.23 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: I know the cpu, but its instruction set is not public
22.36.24 #       <strath> ya... telechips semm          pretty closed off :(
22.36.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Bluechip: I'm not really in that subject
22.36.47 #       <Bluechip> dragon, okay, thanks for listening :)
22.36.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I meean, what core is it?
22.36.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> mean
22.37.10 #       <strath> so have you discovered anything interesting?
22.37.17 #       <Laurent_> dragon : it seems to be a calmrisc 16 core
22.37.28 #       <Laurent_> wait
22.37.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> never heared of that
22.37.44 #       <strath> drums fingers... :)
22.37.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not ARM or something?
22.38.05 #       <Laurent_> http://www.telechips.com/product/product_mp3_tcc730.htm that's what eric linenberg found
22.38.35 #       <strath> laur: i've looked at every link you posted, though a saw no gcc referance on  the good docter's uni page
22.39.04 #       <Laurent_> http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=LSI060301
22.39.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 16 bit? that's worse than what we have
22.39.31 #       <Laurent_> it embeds a 24 bits DSP
22.39.55 #       <Laurent_> strath: not on his own page, but on the university one
22.40.19 #       <Laurent_> http://altair.snu.ac.kr/newhome/en/project/project.htm#calm
22.40.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I've seen that it has a DSP part
22.41.05 #       <strath> ah...
22.41.08 #       <Laurent_> to which this ones links : http://altair.snu.ac.kr/newhome/en/research/research.htm#embed
22.41.26 #       <Laurent_> that last one talks about gcc
22.41.50 #       <Laurent_> only the AVxx series seem to have an ARM as CPU
22.41.53 #       <strath> so, 17 bytes wide... thoughh the significance evades me
22.42.30 #       <Laurent_> strath: it just means there are zeroes every 17 bytes in the firmware code
22.42.42 #       <Laurent_> strath: no idea why though
22.43.25 #       <strath> heh
22.43.29 #       <Laurent_> perhaps is it an artifact of the object code
22.43.44 #       <strath> so wild goose chase?
22.44.03 #       <Laurent_> or they did insert one dummy byte every sixteen 
22.44.39 #       <Laurent_> the strings are somewhat cut when decrypted, which would support the last hypothesis
22.45.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it only has USB1.1?
22.45.38 #       <strath> 2.0
22.45.58 #       <strath> ok, whats next?
22.46.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the Telechip datasheet said so
22.46.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> is there another chip?
22.46.50 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22.46.50 #       * uski ooh, interesting discussion :]
22.47.04 #       <Laurent_> yes
22.47.06 #       <strath> ya..
22.47.22 #       <Laurent_> http://www.smsc.com/main/catalog/usb97c202.html
22.47.27 #       <Laurent_> which supports usb 2
22.48.46 #       <Laurent_> there are probably other chips but they are under the battery and I haven't gotten my soldering iron back yet
22.48.57 #       <strath> "bit of help" please.. :)
22.49.03 #       <Laurent_> (the battery is soldered to the board)
22.49.33 #       <strath> why don't i just open mine up then... i've already had it since wednesday...
22.50.10 #       <strath> :)
22.50.52 #       <Laurent_> strath: that's not so easy, you might break it, be extremely careful if you do so
22.51.02 #       <strath> bah....
22.51.16 #       <Laurent_> I bend three pins while doing it
22.51.20 #       <strath> you should see my ti-92 :P
22.51.35 #       <uski> strath: what dod you do to your poor TI ?
22.51.37 #       <strath> i know...
22.51.40 #       <uski> s/dod/did/g
22.52.10 #       <strath> i read your descriptiuon, and do you know what a pain those large images are to a dialup user?
22.52.20 #       <strath> i'll find a link
22.53.10 #       <strath> took wget two days to grab them.. :)
22.54.11 #       <midknight2k3> :}
22.54.24 #       <strath> that last link on the usb chip page might be interesting
22.54.46 #       <midknight2k3> bluechip?
22.55.02 #       <Bluechip> ?
22.55.12 #       <Laurent_> strath: who are you talking to  ?
22.55.15 #       <midknight2k3> are you making your techie mode
22.55.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> did you find this already: http://data.aijisystem.com/down/calmshine/CALMSHINE16.PDF
22.55.30 #       <strath> http://www.donat.org/michael/ti92/
22.55.33 #       <Bluechip> mk, for what?
22.56.01 #       <midknight2k3> sound
22.56.09 #       <midknight2k3> MDB and center width etf
22.56.12 #       <Bluechip> seperation or MDB
22.56.17 #       <midknight2k3> both
22.56.25 #       <midknight2k3> i love mdb can you make it lol
22.56.27 #       <Bluechip> seperation is done, mdb is not even started
22.56.27 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: yup 
22.56.28 #       <midknight2k3> it sounds very nice
22.56.36 #       <midknight2k3> mdb = lovely sounding
22.56.50 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: it's a commercial compiler available for the smartcard series of the calmrisc
22.57.08 #       <strath> damn that pdf is too big
22.57.42 #       <strath> i'll have to download it later
22.57.57 #       <uski> strath: Images of modification i've made to my 92 to free a one meg block of address space for other uses..
22.58.03 #       <uski> ?? what are you doing this lol
22.58.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> download here: http://www.mculand.com/sub3/CalmSHINE16_download.htm
22.58.30 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: I have it already
22.58.32 #       <strath> that page is from around '97
22.58.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK.
22.58.52 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: i think it's an error from them, it should not be public ;)
22.59.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> does that give you a disasm?
22.59.07 #       <strath> i've don't a bit more with is since, but havn't posted
22.59.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I think so, too
22.59.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> some deep link
22.59.15 #       <Laurent_> I don't think so, only an emulator and compiler
22.59.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> an emulator is nice
22.59.44 #       <strath> i've seen those pages
22.59.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> should be able to disassemble as well
22.59.51 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon:  yes but using it would be illegal
22.59.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ?
23.00.11 #       <strath> (google found it for me)
23.00.44 #       <Laurent_> even if it's an error from them to have put it on a publicly available page, using it without clear permission is illegal
23.01.00 #       <uski> Laurent_: im not sure about it
23.01.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> does it say so?
23.01.08 #       <uski> "if it isnot forbidden, it's allowed"
23.01.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> If it's freely avail
23.01.16 #       <uski> ...no ?
23.01.53 #       <Laurent_> uski: no, you can't enter people's home even if it's not written anywhere on the walls that you can't ;)
23.01.58 #       <strath> hell, even google knows where it is, "if it's linked from google, it's allowed" :P
23.02.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> a simuloator helped me a lot for my flashing reverse engineering
23.02.27 #       <Laurent_> sure, i'm not saying it's useless
23.02.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> by stepping through the boot ROM
23.02.38 #       <uski> Laurent_: im not sure the comparison is good, anyway im not a lawyer so...
23.02.41 #       <Laurent_> i'm saying I wish to do the right thing ;)
23.02.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> do whatever you like
23.03.05 #       <strath> entering a home is not subject to restriced access, leaving a door wide open negates the prohibition
23.03.25 #       <strath> s/is not/is
23.03.48 #       * strath studies law as a hobby
23.03.59 #       <Laurent_> [IDC]Dragon: I wish not to give industrials good reasons to incite politicians to pass stricter laws
23.04.20 #       <Laurent_> strath: I meant, when they are not inside the house ;)
23.05.05 #       <strath> how do you know untill you enter?
23.06.19 #       <strath> well disasemble the compiler :)
23.06.19 #       <Laurent_> because the door is locked
23.06.42 #       <strath> "leaving a door wide open "
23.07.01 #       <strath> oops... was replying to scrollback buffer :)
23.07.20 #       <strath> (compiler..."
23.08.11 #       <strath> what about the code trace in the emu
23.08.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it must be legal, I managed to get there by just following links from the main page!
23.09.49 #       <Laurent_> that's okay then
23.09.51 Join    matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
23.10.15 #       <Laurent_> I didn't try ;) the compiler was of no interest until I had decrypted ;)
23.10.32 #       <strath> heh
23.11.16 #       <strath> so, to save myself a buttload of time which specific files would be useful?
23.11.34 #       <Laurent_> strath: for which purpose ?
23.11.55 #       <strath> emu compile, etc understanding education
23.12.09 #       <strath> tcc730 specific
23.12.37 #       <Laurent_> I have no idea, I haven't tried them yet, I just finished decrypting the firmware this morning ;)
23.12.44 #       <strath> heh
23.12.58 #       <strath> ok... well then what about mine
23.13.13 #       <Laurent_> and it's probably not over yet since as I told you the strings are cut which means there might still be something to do
23.13.18 #       <strath> could i get "a bit of help"? :)
23.15.07 #       <Laurent_> strath: of course, where were we ?
23.16.04 #       <strath> 1 byte pattern
23.16.09 #       <strath> er, 17
23.17.54 #       <strath> and i asked about applying a "first byte xored with next sixteen" algorithm
23.18.53 #       <strath> or is it rot13 encoded?
23.19.41 #       <uski> if the string seems to be garbled, perhaps there is a small algorithm that works on the lowest weight bits
23.19.59 #       <uski> so the characters will be in the "string" range, but will be wrong
23.21.09 #       <strath> by "cut" i believe that he was refering to an extranious character within the string
23.21.23 Join    _Laurent [0] (~laurent@dyn-195-242-125-236.ppp.tiscali.fr)
23.21.30 #       <strath> heh
23.21.32 #       <_Laurent> back
23.21.41 #       <strath> welcome
23.21.48 #       <uski> wb
23.21.54 #       <_Laurent> ADSL seem to have been shut off
23.22.04 #       <_Laurent> strange
23.22.23 #       <uski> archos lawyers are against you ! ;)
23.22.30 #       <strath> thats better than dialup droping out due to line noise
23.22.45 Nick    edx{visited} is now known as edx{code} (edx@pD9EAA520.dip.t-dialin.net)
23.22.52 #       <_Laurent> uski: not yet ! ;)
23.23.00 #       <edx{code}> [IDC]Dragon: Are you in?
23.23.02 #       <uski> strath: i had this problem with i was on dial up
23.23.12 #       <uski> i rewired my entire phone setup, and i got no hangups after that
23.23.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> almost
23.23.19 #       <strath> (archos conspiring with telcos :P )
23.24.15 #       <edx{code}> [IDC]Dragon: about flashing (what else ;)): if I have question marks for the flash information ... how propable is it that I will be able to flash in the next few months... or is it impossible to flash these JukeBoxes?
23.24.31 #       <strath> mine is disrupted by an electric fencer too near the buried line somewhere between here and the telco's switching
23.24.34 #       <uski> edx{code}: impossible
23.24.38 #       <uski> you have to change the flash chip
23.24.42 #       <edx{code}> stupid
23.24.43 #       <midknight2k3> back in a sec all
23.24.45 Quit    midknight2k3 ()
23.24.46 #       <edx{code}> too sad
23.25.00 #       <uski> and 1) it is hard to find a new one 2) it is hard to solder it if you are not experienced
23.25.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yep
23.25.48 Quit    Laurent_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23.26.00 #       <edx{code}> I have no clue about soldering so I better go forget it ;)
23.26.04 #       <edx{code}> I was just curious
23.26.08 #       <strath> but you can keep soldering practising until you are experianced (then buy a new device to replace melted one) :)
23.26.29 #       <uski> edx{code}: you might also try to find a garbled archos with a working cpu board
23.26.29 #       <_Laurent> do you still read me ?
23.26.35 #       <uski> (with the correct flash chip)
23.26.42 #       <uski> then you could exchange the cpu boards
23.26.42 #       <edx{code}> uski: actually, I got one
23.26.44 #       <uski> _Laurent: yea
23.26.45 #       <strath> your duoble just dropped
23.26.47 #       <edx{code}> uski: Display is not working
23.26.57 #       <uski> edx{code}: you're lucky ! then exchange the boards
23.26.58 #       <_Laurent> hum, forget that one question, it was my old nick disappearing ;)
23.26.59 #       <edx{code}> uski: I had already flashed it... but I dont want to risk my new one
23.27.27 #       <uski> ok
23.27.28 #       <strath> ok, where were we?
23.28.15 #       <_Laurent> strath:  my question was : do you see a pattern emerge ?
23.28.29 #       <strath> the 17byte thing?
23.28.34 #       <_Laurent> yes
23.28.41 #       <strath> ya
23.29.10 #       <_Laurent> then you can do the rest by yourself ;)
23.29.21 #       <strath> the significance evades me though
23.29.29 #       <_Laurent> a bit of explanation :
23.30.04 #       <strath> if you please
23.30.29 Quit    oxygen77 ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/7]")
23.30.32 #       <_Laurent> when using a xor key, if there are zeroes in the data that you encrypt, those will reveal the xor key
23.30.44 #       <_Laurent> because a xor 0 is a
23.30.52 #       <strath> that was my next question
23.30.54 #       <strath> heh
23.31.22 #       <strath> due to somethig you said eirlier, which just hit me
23.31.39 #       <Bluechip> blocks of FF's will reveal the NOT xor key
23.32.07 #       <_Laurent> yup
23.32.24 #       <strath> but if its not xor, then what is it? :P
23.32.37 Quit    matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23.33.01 #       <strath> how stupid....
23.33.08 #       <strath> dumbarses
23.33.44 #       <strath> nalvrr..... hrm seems to repeat
23.33.44 #       <_Laurent> either dumb either helpful ;)
23.33.57 #       <_Laurent> let's give them a chance ;)
23.34.10 #       <Bluechip> you need to appreciate the legal ramificatons of break ANY encryption to understand why they did not waste time coming up with something complicated
23.34.44 #       <Bluechip> breaking*
23.35.30 #       <_Laurent> bc : i'm not sure I understand what you meant, but they might have used an unbreakable encryption
23.35.31 #       <strath> but with the dmca, it states "effective"
23.35.41 #       <_Laurent> bc: without much effort I mean
23.36.29 #       <strath> though i understand that it's meant in the business legal sence, not techie
23.36.58 #       <strath> (effectivly, bluechip is an eggplant)
23.37.09 #       <Bluechip> !?
23.37.32 #       <_Laurent> bc : ok I got what you said
23.37.33 #       <strath> clarifiying the meaning of a word in the DMCA
23.38.13 #       <Bluechip> "eggplant" ?? is that a compliment, a criticism, or an observation?
23.38.47 #       <_Laurent> or a meal ?
23.38.49 #       <strath> heh, only other active person...
23.39.00 #       <Bluechip> euphemism!
23.39.14 #       <strath> first deragatory object that poped into my head
23.39.37 #       <Bluechip> ahh a criticism
23.39.42 #       <Bluechip> nice one :)
23.39.44 #       <strath> heh
23.39.50 #       <strath> only in jest
23.40.13 #       <Bluechip> did you know that the most tasty bit of the egg plant is under the stem because it is still growing?
23.40.30 #       <Bluechip> also the seeds can be a little bitter
23.40.33 #       <strath> no, as a matter of fact, i did not
23.41.17 #       <_Laurent> Bluechip: let me rephrase what you said in order to make sure I understood it well
23.41.24 #       <strath> did you know that there is a patch of my lawn that grows really well, a few yards from the doghouse?
23.41.52 #       <_Laurent> Bluechip: you meant that Archos chosed a dumb encryption, because breaking an encryption is illegal under the DMCA ?
23.41.57 #       <Bluechip> hmmmm, no, thank you :)
23.42.08 #       <strath> yes...
23.42.20 #       <strath> well, sorta
23.42.25 #       <strath> not quite
23.42.49 #       <strath> under the dmca, rot13 qualifies as an effective protection
23.43.00 #       <Bluechip> +1 is sufficient
23.43.20 #       <Bluechip> afaik
23.43.28 #       <strath> basicly
23.43.38 #       <_Laurent> huh ?
23.43.39 #       <strath> but thats besides the point
23.43.41 #       <_Laurent> that's dumb
23.43.47 #       <strath> and picking nits
23.43.58 #       <strath> and just a bit pedantic
23.44.03 #       <_Laurent> then machine language is an encryption too that's stupid
23.44.13 #       <Bluechip> and a waste of time!
23.44.40 #       <strath> is the "copyrighted material" is the source code
23.45.08 #       <Bluechip> only lawyers may answer...
23.45.22 #       <strath> but reverse engineering still has exceptions, even from the DMCA
23.45.28 #       <strath> no...
23.45.44 #       <strath> lawers may answer, but the people will decide
23.45.48 #       <Bluechip> we just get on and do it in the UK
23.46.17 #       <strath> i say just get on, and let time sort it out
23.46.22 #       <_Laurent> strath: ah, you're getting better ;) people decide by their votes and letters to their representatives
23.46.23 #       <Bluechip> but being on a small island we have less time
23.46.32 #       <strath> this is whats refered to as the "chilling effect"
23.46.51 #       <_Laurent> Bluechip: do you know the web site for legal texts in the UK ?
23.46.58 #       <strath> (i was just being vauge laury)
23.47.10 #       <strath> :P
23.47.24 #       <Bluechip> No, they are copyright material ...you must buy them
23.47.34 #       <_Laurent> nah, I take it as a sign you're not a lost cause ;)
23.47.36 #       <strath> what are?
23.47.47 #       <Bluechip> there are various notas about the last official publication, but it is badly indexed and out of date
23.47.51 #       <_Laurent> bluechip : are you kidding ?
23.47.54 #       <Bluechip> no
23.48.06 #       <strath> blue, you're misleading him
23.48.15 #       <Bluechip> okay - whatever you say
23.48.18 #       <_Laurent> http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr for all french laws + jurisprudence
23.48.23 #       <_Laurent> for free
23.48.29 #       <Bluechip> up to date?
23.48.32 #       <Bluechip> well indexed?
23.48.40 #       <_Laurent> yes
23.48.49 #       <Bluechip> cool :) nice one France!
23.48.51 #       <_Laurent> go and see by yourself
23.48.54 #       <Bluechip> I trust you
23.49.11 #       <strath> the text in the documents is public domain, but the arrangment and presentation of it is owned by the contracted preparer
23.49.17 #       <_Laurent> i am an employee representative at my work, and I use it all the time
23.49.30 #       <Bluechip> far a password to the british laws you need to know the right people
23.49.50 #       <_Laurent> that's frightening for a democracy
23.50.29 #       <uski> Bluechip: you mean that, as a British citizen, you cannot read your laws ? nowhere ?
23.50.31 #       <Bluechip> when I was 14 I stopped a bunch of kids picking on this little dude ...he is now our local police sargeant :)
23.50.45 #       <Bluechip> probably in the local library
23.50.52 #       <Bluechip> you asked "online"
23.51.01 #       <uski> ok
23.51.04 #       <strath> as the web gets easy enough for even the dullest pencil pusher, the gov docs and becoming more redily availible online
23.51.22 #       <_Laurent> bc: the article of french law I quoted on the mailing list was taken there
23.51.30 Join    c0utta [0] (noemail@dialup-117.56.221.203.acc06-waym-adl.comindico.com.au)
23.51.52 #       <strath> heh
23.52.32 #       <strath> laury: wanna try your hand at civil disobedience and send over some c code? :P
23.53.21 #       <_Laurent> Bluechip: part of the french law are being translated in english and spanish : http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/html/codes_traduits/liste.htm
23.53.47 #       <Bluechip> cool - also bookmarked
23.54.21 #       <uski> gtg
23.54.22 #       <uski> see you folks
23.54.28 #       <strath> so the object code is simply XORed with a key, and where zeros naturaly occur in the object code, the value of the key is retrivable?
23.54.39 #       <strath> (everyone got that?
23.54.49 #       <strath> logbot? did you get that?
23.55.03 #       <strath> ok, good
23.55.07 Quit    uski ("Fermeture du client")
23.55.08 #       <Bluechip> nite uski
23.55.23 #       <_Laurent> strath: I never said such a thing
23.56.13 #       <_Laurent> strath: I told you how zeros reveal the key in XOR encryption and showed you patterns in the firmware code ;)
23.56.50 #       <strath> no... i was stating a fact wbout the futility of XORing to hide something with a known format
23.57.20 #       <_Laurent> yes, it's futile, I do agree
23.57.35 #       <Bluechip> all encryption is crap if you know how to crack it ;)
23.57.40 #       <_Laurent> xor can be a perfect encryption though
23.57.47 #       <_Laurent> uncrackable
23.57.54 #       <strath> i though we were just talking about how i could protect some data, and what to avoid
23.58.00 #       <Bluechip> make the key longer than the data
23.58.23 #       <Bluechip> strath: you want to WRITE some encryption??
23.58.58 #       <strath> well, yes, but the amount of overhead for an embeded device would be cost prohibitve