--- Log for 08.06.104 Server: anthony.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16p1 Started: 23 days and 6 hours ago 00.02.00 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.23.07 Join RavenWrks [0] (RavenWorks@modemcable240.220-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) 00.23.07 Quit RavenWorks (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.27.05 # Can anyone help me out.. I just bought an Archos, and it's being really weird... I don't think it's RockBox because I was having problems before it was even installed... 00.27.21 # ... 00.28.23 # I'm not even sure what I'm asking for, this is all totally flukey, sometimes it can't access the hard drive, sometimes it won't mount in Windows when connected, even when it worked it stopped playing after a second of music... 00.28.37 # Argh 00.28.58 # 1. remove rockbox 00.29.05 # 2. reboot 00.29.08 # I can't even access the HD 00.29.34 # if it will not power at all, then 1. check the batteries 00.30.07 # IT boots up, and then says REad access error. 00.30.22 # ahh, now an error message - handy 00.30.42 # does rockbox start? 00.30.44 # It booted once 00.30.49 # Now it's not. 00.31.44 # I get the generic loading screen, version 1.40a (I didn't flash it) and then "Read Access Error, CAnnot... okay,wait, now I'm getting ROckbox's 'REsume?' screen. 00.32.16 # This is why I'm so confused, it's not even the same problem every time 00.32.23 # dodgy connection 00.32.26 # dropped itrecently? 00.32.34 # Ijust got it. 00.32.37 # which unit is it? 00.32.38 # .. off eBay. 00.32.41 # REcorder v2 00.32.52 # dodgy battery connection in transit 00.32.57 # reseat battery 00.33.24 # I was gonna say, the really weird thing was it told me it was charged after 15 minutes, I assumed that the last owner charged it but now I'm getting all these problems... 00.33.32 # there are several FAQ with piccies from the rockbox homepage :) 00.33.35 # is resetting the battery in the Archos manual or ROckbox manual? 00.33.37 # ok ^^ 00.33.49 # RE-SEAT 00.33.57 # Oh! 00.34.00 # lol 00.34.24 # (i actually think that's quite funny) 00.34.27 # lol 00.34.49 # they're a tight fit, and not held securely - if that makes sense 00.34.51 # 'How to repair your broken battery connectors'? 00.35.02 # think that is for the V1 00.35.17 # all i can say is that I know I've seen photos 00.35.24 # ...HEY SCOTT 00.37.41 # hmmm, well RavenWrks, if you see scott666 around, ask him ....he was taking his apart today for another reason and has a digicam 00.39.18 Quit lImbus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.39.20 # Alright. 00.39.23 # THanks.. 00.39.44 # you'rE welcomE 00.46.43 Join theBishop_sleeps [0] (~sleep21@adslblock234x128.chesco.com) 00.47.13 Nick theBishop_sleeps is now known as thebishop (~sleep21@adslblock234x128.chesco.com) 00.47.18 # heyhey 00.47.34 # is there a firmware flash program in the Rockbox project? 00.47.42 # yes 00.47.45 # i'm looking at the source right now 00.47.51 # what file is it? 00.48.00 # errrrrrr 00.48.32 # while I'm searching... why? 00.49.01 # i'm trying to learn how USB programming works, and eventually i want to make a similar project for the Creative Labs Nomad 00.49.06 # is it flash.cpp 00.49.33 # it's firmware_flash in the plugins - it will help none for USB :( 00.49.36 # " /flash/uart_boot/flash.cpp" 00.50.06 # missed that one/// 00.50.07 # ... 00.50.10 # so you put the updated file on the HD and the program flashes itself? 00.50.27 # no you run the flash app and point it at a file and a chip 00.52.07 # aka. click on a firmware image 00.52.39 # the first flash is different as it set up the chip for a new flash technique 00.52.59 # but the program is run from a PC? 00.53.04 # no 00.53.32 # you can modify the hardware and do it over a serial port from the pc 00.53.50 # ah i see 00.53.52 # rewire a couple of pins on the cpu iirc 00.54.19 # well as far as i can see there is no way to hack up a serial port on the Nomad Xtra 00.54.28 # ... would I be insane to just open up my Archos and try and make the battery fit better, without having found a guide first? 00.55.06 # not insane at all - just take a little care the first time 00.55.23 # I believe it can be done without a soldering iron 00.57.51 # I bought the V1 for that very reason 00.58.07 # hey, what is the benefit of the serial port interface? 00.58.17 # serial debugging 00.58.39 # can you run code from that? 01.01.32 # I dont really know, soory 01.01.42 # if you can flash the chip, it seems likely 01.01.54 # but I'm running out of "know" and into "guess" 01.03.19 # brb 01.03.23 Quit BlueChippp ("For The Latest Rockbox DevKit AND Advanced Plugins Visit http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems") 01.14.50 Join BlueChippp [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 01.27.05 # RavenWrks: still having hardware problems? i see bluechip asked for me to help earlier 01.27.11 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) 01.27.26 # you had some photos 01.27.53 # no i didnt 01.27.58 # i had links to the rockbox site 01.27.59 # heh 01.30.04 # Ack, hi! 01.30.30 # Umm, wow, I just put a little screwdriver between the two rectangular metal things which I assume are battery cells, and abunch of lights turned on... 01.31.12 # :) 01.31.28 # I tried turning it on after that, and got the HD access error message. 01.31.59 # maybe you need to leave the screwdriver in the gap to keep the circuit complete? 01.32.06 # BETWEEN the 2 rectangular metal things? 01.32.21 # Scott -- yes. Blue -- that would be inconvenient. X3 01.32.26 # "i shorted out two metal things and it worked" 01.32.41 # youre going through the top of the unit, right? 01.32.45 # Yep. 01.32.50 # I dont really understand that at all, but if it fixes the problem... 01.32.57 Quit thebishop (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.32.58 # those 2 metal things are the 2 cells of the battery 01.33.02 # But I also took off the bottom, and the four blue screws -- this is a V2 -- and it's not really coming apart. 01.33.10 # Blue -- it turns on just fine, that's not the problem. 01.33.13 # the bottom is pretty useless 01.33.18 # its serial on the MM units 01.33.23 # does it have to come off to be disassembled, though? 01.33.35 # i think so 01.33.45 # ive never tried not taking it off 01.33.46 # RavenWrks you have stated so many problems i don't really know what you're trying to do 01.33.49 # i will next time 01.34.02 # if you're randomly shorting the unit out, you will eventually kill it 01.34.37 # Well I didn't do it again after the first time. 01.34.45 # RavenWrks: do the metal things on the bottom of the top (the cover) touch both metal things? 01.35.25 # lol -do the metal things touch the metal things - lol 01.35.51 # well, it starts up without the cover in... 01.36.05 # does it work though? 01.36.25 # I got the same HD read error as before. 01.36.34 # when the cover is off you should have to press down on the battery to get it to turn on 01.36.35 # Trying again. 01.36.41 # Nope, starting fine 01.36.54 # the cover pushes it down to the contacts 01.36.57 # well as "fine" as it ever has 01.37.06 # now it's saying 'please format drive' 01.37.13 # is your drive formatted? 01.37.30 # It was. 01.37.45 # same thing when you reboot? 01.37.46 # It wouldn't surprise me if it got messed up during all of these screwy startups. 01.38.11 # connect the drive to a pc 01.38.16 # OK 01.38.27 # youll need a soldering iron for that 01.38.37 # for what? 01.38.46 # connecting the drive to a pC 01.38.48 # well 01.38.57 # for being able to connect it to a PC anyway 01.39.14 # actually CONNECTING it doesnt need soldering 01.39.19 Quit Strath (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.39.19 NSplit anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 01.39.22 # unless you want to do it the hard way 01.39.26 # Connected, it's booting 01.39.34 # USB logo on Archos, 'deedoo' noise from Windows 01.39.47 # but it's not appearing in My Computer 01.39.48 # oh 01.39.56 # XP 01.39.56 # thought he meant the DRIVE 01.40.18 # 'Safely Remove' refers to it as a 'USB mass storage device', which it didn't back when it was working (better). 01.41.03 # it should be a USB mass storage drive 01.42.09 # *device 01.42.16 # just checked with mine 01.42.37 # Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of the 'add hardware' control panel, it had a much longer name there. 01.42.46 # still not showing up in My Computer though. 01.42.57 # I'm gonna unplug and replug it. 01.43.38 # is it running archos or rockbox f/w? 01.44.15 # Rockbox, but I was having trouble even before I managed to copy it on. 01.45.02 # Okay, now Rockbox is listing my songs again. 01.45.14 # This definately seems like a case of something being loose. :P 01.45.45 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 01.46.18 # now rockbox is running - connect windows and see the usb enabled screen on the unit 01.46.28 # It just gave me an error message I didn't get a chance to read, and everything below the status bar disappeared.. 01.46.31 # now it's listing my songs again 01.46.51 # Okay, now it's showing a nifty picture of a USB cable, with the USB logo. 01.47.46 # Windows made the noise, but it's still not appearing. 01.47.54 NHeal anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 01.47.54 NJoin Strath [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a200.wi.tds.net) 01.47.57 Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a200.wi.tds.net) 01.47.57 # this is fer sure a dodgy connection 01.48.17 # I believe Rockbox has some serious USB atm - try renaming the rockbox file and rebooting 01.48.22 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.48.36 # *USB problems 01.48.45 # How can I remove it without being able to access it from Windows? 01.48.54 # ON+PLAY, rename file 01.49.05 # just be warned, you wil not be able to rename it back 01.49.15 # I'll just unzip it again. 01.49.22 # not if you cant connect 01.49.40 # best method is to have the original firmware on the drive 01.49.55 # but that mey be "future reference" info 01.50.18 # I'll settle for it working with ANY firmware. 01.55.32 # Maybe I'd be able to just push the battery into place if I could get this thing open. 01.55.39 # I took off the top and the bottom, and the four blue side screws... 01.55.44 # does anything else have to be unscrewed? 01.55.53 # Sorry to be this much trouble. 01.57.50 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.59.22 # The webpage the Rockbox site linked to said something about prying the batteries out... 01.59.44 # mechanically i can't really help as I own a V1 02.04.24 # what are you planning on doing? 02.04.58 # making sure the battery's inserted snugly. 02.05.22 # do you have a soldering iron? 02.05.43 # Nope. 02.05.44 # or more importantly, do you know how to use one? 02.05.49 # ok 02.05.57 # well then you wont be able to get very deep 02.06.16 # drive has started 02.06.23 # to take off the faceplate you need to remove the top, the bottom, and the battery 02.06.47 # then you need to turn the unit onto its face and look where the battery was and find the black screw and remove that 02.07.07 # I see the black screw but I'm not sure how to get the battery out. 02.07.12 # then you have to pry off (carefully) both sides of the face 02.07.23 # you should just have to shake it 02.08.39 # How hard? 02.08.47 # uhh 02.08.50 # not very 02.08.59 # I'm shaking pretty hard, it's not budging 02.09.16 # i should probably put in a disclaimer right about now 02.09.36 # Okay, not REALLY hard, but you know what I mean. :P 02.09.43 # not budging at all? 02.10.01 # shake as hard as youre willing to try 02.10.02 # Not as far as I can tell. 02.10.35 # if it moves enough to grab you can pull it out 02.11.17 # Okay, I gotta find something other than this screwdriver, I was just pushing the SIDE and it started up. 02.11.25 # but only for a second, just the backlighting went on and then off. 02.11.37 # Wait, pushing it with my FINGER does it... 02.11.50 # pushing it down? 02.11.57 # PUshing it sideways. 02.11.58 # i can advice an old trick- it's a bodge though 02.12.02 # advise 02.12.17 # Bodge..? 02.12.24 # jam a bit of cardboard in it 02.12.37 # Which side? 02.12.42 # lol 02.12.50 # the side that makes it move the way you want it to move 02.13.02 # But getting it to turn on isn't the problem.... 02.13.10 # isn't stuff lighting up when I haven't pushed the On button a BAD thing? 02.13.12 # it was once 02.13.25 # Getting it to boot properly is the problem. 02.13.36 # It's always turned on; it's what happens after the startup screen that's the problem. 02.14.05 # you need to make the battery contacts good 02.14.28 # yeah, thats my guess 02.14.42 # he needs to unsolder the 7 points though 02.14.50 # the contacts are on the other side 02.14.50 # hold it in place and see if it works - if it does, then do whatever is required to keep the battery in that position 02.15.01 # Small question... 02.15.15 # get some ethanol or similar and pour it in and swill it about 02.16.11 # should I be able to see a black band in the top of the screen window? 02.16.16 # Above the LCD 02.16.23 # it seems like the screen is too far down 02.17.01 # so anyway, however I hold the batteries to make the lights go on, keep them like that? 02.17.04 # How will I turn it off? 02.17.35 # press off 02.17.40 # lol 02.17.42 # *hold 02.18.01 # Oh, wow, this is weird, it just booted, but not into RockBox... 02.18.40 # i dont suppose you have a warranty 02.19.05 # eBay. 02.19.22 # figures 02.19.40 # http://www.angelfire.com/trek/archos/diagnosis.htm 02.19.46 # battery jogged out in transit is my guess 02.19.50 # scroll down to the battery contacts part 02.21.11 # I can't even get it apart... 02.21.52 # I can't get it to start up with a push anymore, either. 02.22.29 # you need to focus on one task at a time me thinks 02.23.03 # I just squeezed the sides and it did it.. and then it did it on its own... 02.23.15 # and in fact it doesn't start up, just both lights light up, then the red one turns off, then the green. 02.23.17 # that is definitely a battery contact problem 02.23.30 # youll have to take it apart if you want it to work again 02.23.53 # squeezing the sides always means battery contacts 02.24.10 # the sides of the top.... but still. 02.26.03 # what if I took out the black screw first? 02.27.19 # what about the black screw? 02.27.33 # would it help me get the batteries out? 02.28.03 # well, eventually 02.28.17 # but the battery contacts are on the opposite side of the PCB 02.28.40 # you need to de-solder the 7 points and pull the board off and turn it over 02.30.24 # its a fairly simple task if youve had any experience at all with a soldering iron 02.30.38 # I've seen someone do it. 02.31.00 # The HD is making a ticking sound when it seeks.... 02.31.07 # lack of power 02.31.46 # Makes sense. 02.31.57 # Same reason it won't play for more than a second when it actually starts? 02.32.29 Quit scott666 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.32.38 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) 02.33.14 # damn exploding trillian 02.38.08 Join midk [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) 02.55.04 # bbiab 02.55.04 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.55.21 Quit StrathAFK ("Client closed") 02.57.59 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03.00.23 # It occurs to me.... maybe what I'm doing to make the lights light up is not CONNECTING the battery, but pulling it *out* of place... then once I stop, it goes back into place and the lights go on.... 03.03.22 Join midknight2k3 [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) 03.03.26 Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.05.51 Nick midknight2k3 is now known as midk (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) 03.07.04 # must not resort to using teeth on this stupid battery... 03.37.50 Quit BlueChippp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.37.50 Quit RavenWrks (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.38.25 Join BlueChippp [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 03.57.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.37.25 Join guest1 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) 04.38.44 Quit guest1 (Client Quit) 04.39.02 Join guest_2004 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) 04.39.16 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 04.40.13 # my ac adapter will not charge my JBR 20 V2, what can I do? 04.41.15 # what have you done since the last time it worked? 04.42.41 # I have been using the USB, but you know it takes forever 04.43.09 # sorry, what takes forever? 04.43.31 # charging the battery 04.44.41 # do you have a warranty? 04.45.13 # if not it sounds like you will have to replace the charging circuit 04.45.20 # yes, but I would have to remove the Rockbox firmware first 04.45.30 # is that a problem? 04.45.44 # replace the charging circuit, is it something I could do? 04.45.48 # depends 04.45.53 # do you have experience with soldering? 04.46.25 # some, on my older dvd player, but nothing with circuit boards 04.47.09 # I have had no response from Archos help emails, so I will have to call them 04.47.17 # newmp3technology are selling a diy charger reapir kit 04.47.37 # dont waste your time with archos (imho) 04.47.53 # I can check it out. thanks ! 04.48.07 # they dont sell a diy headphone repair kit do they? 04.48.22 # yeah, it's called "a decent soldering iron" 04.48.23 # lol 04.49.46 # that would help 04.50.08 # looks like the repair kits are not available until Aug to Oct timeframe 04.50.25 # boo 04.50.29 # email 'em 05.17.55 Quit guest_2004 ("Leaving") 05.17.55 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05.18.23 Join Guest_2004 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) 05.22.30 # So is there anyone else who repairs JBR 20 V2 charge circuits? 05.24.06 # not as a speciality in my knowledge 05.24.25 # newmp3technology.com? 05.24.35 # no more 05.24.39 # :( boo 05.24.52 # ? 05.25.01 # newmp3 - no more achos repairs 05.25.35 # I just did the coolest fix to rockbox :) 05.25.46 # hooray for fixes 05.25.50 # aww 05.25.53 # ooh what bc 05.26.34 # watch sourceforge in 5 mins 05.29.57 # done 05.31.22 # ooh 05.31.33 # is audio 3587 still a plugin? 05.32.27 # yes 05.32.31 # no room in the main f/w 05.33.47 # hmm 05.33.50 # what else is new with it 05.34.27 # audio 3587? 05.34.30 # I have a release email ready to go the newsgroup once it is done - it has about three pages of new features 05.35.18 # WOW 05.35.24 # i want to try it. 05.37.48 # it needs new f/w - what patches should I include? 05.38.17 # mine mine mine 05.39.05 Quit Guest_2004 ("Leaving") 05.54.21 Join elinenbe [0] (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 05.57.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.58.44 # i fancy , volume-triggered recordings; rva tag support and dir sort order :) any others you can think f? 06.01.32 # are you interested in beta'ing what I have so far? 06.01.54 # i can tomorrow 06.01.59 # no archos tonight 06.02.02 # ok 06.02.07 # *decides not to use the word "promise" 06.02.10 # :D 06.04.05 Quit midk ("yo yo yo cya later YO YO YO wasa wasa!") 06.06.16 Part BlueChippp 06.28.47 Part scott666 06.50.28 Join AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 06.50.38 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 07.06.45 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07.16.01 Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.48.16 Join sasswipe [0] (jirc@c-67-165-114-220.client.comcast.net) 07.49.26 Quit sasswipe (Client Quit) 07.58.00 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.23.29 Join Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) 08.24.19 # another fork....stay a while...stay FOREVER!!!! :-) 08.24.42 # ok, I stay! 08.24.45 # :-) 08.50.52 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 08.55.10 Join BlueChippp [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 08.57.02 Nick BlueChippp is now known as BlueChip (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 09.12.58 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09.22.06 Join hardeep [0] (1098@208.247.65.237) 09.42.23 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 09.42.45 # hi guys 09.42.52 # Dr. Zagor! :O *gasp* 09.45.44 # Zagor: to round up, BlueChip considers himself "forced" to release his own builds due to us lacking the API support 09.46.06 # I say we don't patch the API since we're not allowed to include his plugins anyway 09.46.25 # BlueChip: are you ok with discussing this here and now? 09.53.47 # isn't he here? 09.53.56 # he was here 5 mins ago 09.58.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.06.04 Quit hardeep ("BitchX Lite I said!") 10.06.51 Quit BlueChip (Remote closed the connection) 10.07.34 Join BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 10.07.50 # brb 10.10.44 # answering machine ....I'l try again in 20mins or so 10.10.47 # anyway... 10.11.08 # you say: one of my emails is a clear indicator that I am "forking" ....which one? 10.11.18 # the announcement one 10.11.32 # but that is not that important 10.11.45 # in my eyes and terms, you are doing a rockbox fork 10.11.49 # My long term aim is that it will only require the Audio_3587.rock file, but that requires certain core code changes. 10.11.56 # quoted from the email 10.12.08 # those were more extensive than I was aware of 10.12.50 # so I hope you can now see that is a clear indicator of NOT "forking" 10.13.00 # the changes are extensive you say? 10.13.38 # yes 10.13.40 # a bit too 10.13.51 # I think we should settle on the main issue first 10.14.00 # then everything else will be fine 10.14.02 # I cannot believe I am arguing about something that can be proven so simply ...implement the required changes and watch the "fork" disappear 10.14.27 # the lang stuff for example is not simple, it is ugly 10.14.31 # I have told you I am not forking - what would I possibly gain by lying??? 10.14.44 # but again, I think the main issue it not the code or the patches 10.15.26 # i think "bluechip forking" is the SOLE reason I tracked you down today 10.15.36 # yes 10.15.42 # but the reason for the fork is... 10.15.44 # he is not 10.15.53 # there is no fork 10.15.57 # lol 10.16.02 # that we cannot accept your code into rockbox without a real person to acknowledge 10.16.32 # i am real 10.16.38 # so you say 10.16.51 # but when someone sues, it is better to know more details 10.17.00 # i kinda think "I don't believe you exist" kinda kills the conversation 10.17.25 # dude if someone sues, reverse my ip 10.17.58 # BlueChip: post-sco, i don't want to play silly games. no name, no merge. 10.18.04 # so I say "my name is Fred West" ...you have no choice but to believe me - here we go again - three hours of this I had with linus 10.18.37 # yeah call me silly, then again you don't get to chat with the lawyers. 10.18.41 # yes, you have made yourself perfectly clear 10.18.51 # so, you have a fork 10.18.51 # cool 10.19.04 # there is no fork 10.19.06 # I don't think its cool 10.19.24 # by definition, I think your projects meats all requirements to call it a fork 10.19.25 # what I am saying is, if you want to be stubborn too, I am alright with that 10.19.36 # really 10.19.48 # i'm not being stubborn. i'm being legal. 10.19.49 # who's stubborn? 10.20.01 # we can motivate this standpoint 10.20.03 # yes, I said it in posts to your zagor you will have undoubtedly read also 10.20.17 # we are, we both have views which we will not change 10.20.36 # we can fight, or learn to live together with our differences, i prefer the latter 10.20.44 # if you want to call me names for ensuring Rockbox has a clean legal sheet, then go ahead. you'll only look stupid. 10.21.02 # WHAT!? 10.21.10 # where did that come from? 10.21.30 # am i here just to be slandered or to work on a viable solution? 10.21.46 # oh, grow up or read up on slander. 10.22.14 # how much would you like me to grow up by? 10.22.36 # slander is spoken, i consider this textual chat to be spoken in as much as it is in real time 10.22.53 # it isn't slander, BlueChip 10.23.14 # Björn is asking for some backup from the people that contribute 10.23.24 # can we drop this stupid pointless childish arguing crap and talk about how to work together 10.23.37 # but how can we work together if we can't use your code? 10.23.55 # We find a compromise 10.24.01 # such as? 10.24.42 # you use the core changes without credit and I release the plugin myself 10.25.34 # that's not a solution to the real problem 10.25.51 # is it a solution to the immediate problem? 10.26.00 # real or imaginary 10.26.17 # not really, since we haven't even started discussing the merits of the changes 10.26.31 # go4it 10.26.40 # ask away 10.27.53 # most of what you ask is not available as patches 10.28.00 # nor have they been discussed on the list 10.28.13 # how do you plan to keep from confusing people when 80% volume means different things before and after running your plugin? 10.28.39 # i don't - that is the nature of the new volume scale 10.28.53 # that scale is only present in your plugin 10.28.57 # why have several scales? 10.29.02 # at the moment yes 10.29.13 # not several, just one, that works better then the RB one 10.29.23 # define "works better" ? 10.29.24 # so your plugin depends on changing the core sound code? 10.29.39 # offers more control over the audio levels in the listening range 10.29.54 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.30.26 # it still doesn't change the fact that you will make alterations that are not reflected in the core user interface 10.30.31 # the new scale could be on/off with a switch 10.31.05 # sorry, the typing is a line of two out of sync - that was my answer to "define better" 10.31.22 # then we have the lang stuff you want to do 10.31.23 # and no, better does not mean no changes 10.31.30 # and the odd running your plugin from core code 10.31.34 # you mean voice? 10.31.45 # I don't know, you mentioned lang.h 10.32.04 # i need to include it to use the talk interface 10.32.15 # and we haven't seen any "autoexec.bat" patch to my knowledge 10.32.27 # autoexec: idc-dragon i think mentioned it 10.33.00 # lang: i managed to do it all with existing quotes, but i would have liked "centre" and "preset" 10.33.03 # and what is a .vol file? 10.33.09 # it sounds like you are not really making a plugin at all, you are making a major patch for the sound code. which is fine, but requires a lot more discussion to be accepted. 10.33.28 # you ask for lots of stuff without detailing, and it makes me utterly confused 10.33.37 # .vol: essentially an MAS register dump ...see struct globals in my code 10.33.54 # the detail is in the file for which i sent you the link 10.33.58 # I'm not allowed to use your code, so I don't read it 10.34.18 # ok 10.34.26 # I read submitted patches 10.34.33 # should I even discuss it with you? 10.34.39 # yes 10.34.42 # discuss is the word 10.34.49 # please explain 10.35.01 # .vol has stuff in it that changes the sound when used with the Audio-3587 plugin 10.35.16 # what stuff and how does it change the sound? 10.35.16 # more info? 10.35.58 # btw 10.36.15 # isn't that vol stuff simply gonna be invoked by the standard viewers concept? 10.36.32 # screen layout info, custom settings, mas register dump 10.36.40 # and a file id 10.37.07 # yes, of course, standard viewers -cool - another problem solved by us :) 10.37.38 # ? 10.38.22 # standard viewers, i guess you mean some text registry file or such, in which case, yes it will solve the problem 10.38.36 # I mean viewers.config 10.38.40 # check your cvs 10.38.55 # its there already 10.38.56 # is it in? 10.39.13 # yeps 10.39.16 # kewl - been working hard on this and haven't updated in a few days 10.39.39 # okay ...one down, what's next? 10.39.46 # my phone call... brb 10.42.00 # hmmm, may have to call this short in about 30mins - gotta fix my answering machine for an important call back later :( 10.42.32 # meanwhile ...back on the ranch... 10.43.31 # still there? 10.43.52 # you mentioned item a to g in your reply 10.44.47 # a ...add talk() to plugin.h 10.44.59 # have you discussed this on the list? 10.45.11 # yes 10.45.16 # and? 10.45.26 # it requires (b) which linus says "No" 10.45.37 # as mentioned in the email 10.45.56 # I haven't read that on the list 10.46.05 # brb 10.46.07 # so I can't comment 10.47.43 # bak 10.47.53 # besides 10.47.56 # I tend to agree 10.48.05 # the lang.h stuff is generated for the firmware build 10.48.13 # it may change, while the plugin API does not 10.48.35 # so plugins can't know what sounds to play 10.49.07 # certainly an area we could or even should address somehow 10.49.36 # i think it would be nice to have speech-capable plugins - the vocab is restricted, but for a blind person... 10.49.45 # I agree 10.49.54 # I think we should have language support too 10.49.58 # but we don't have that either 10.50.06 # except for sokoban - lol 10.50.41 # yes, I did all my language strings at the top of my code, so it's all ready to go 10.51.05 # sokoban doesn't have language support 10.51.10 # it even has a #define SPEAK_AMERICAN ...lol 10.51.33 # sokoban has an entry in the laguage table 10.51.38 # yes 10.51.41 # but it isn't used 10.51.50 # it is from before we had the plugins like this 10.51.54 # sorry, it was intended as a joke 10.52.02 # my point is: 10.52.06 # we fix the concept first 10.52.12 # then add functions for it 10.52.56 # sounds like a sensible approach 10.53.53 # in many cases, this means it'll take a long time until we add functions 10.53.58 # like for languages in plugins 10.54.27 # i can wait 10.54.37 # time is my friend 10.57.37 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 10.58.19 # that is a) and b) right? 10.58.27 # think so :) 10.58.38 # item c) sounds too much of a hack, we need to make that more generic 10.59.21 # yeah, it is rather, can we leave that until last? 10.59.55 # item d) hasn't been done, has it? 11.00.18 # d) could be concluded by an autoexec.bat file ...which has been discussed re car-head units and i recall a few other ideas being thrown in the pot 11.00.29 # it has been discussed, yes 11.00.40 # an "autoexec" mechanism sounds ok with me 11.00.46 # it is a good idea 11.00.51 # i like it too 11.01.00 # like "run this plugin on startup with this argument" 11.01.03 # much better than my current bodge by 10000x 11.01.06 # plugins rather 11.01.11 # yes 11.01.33 # maybe later to include things like IF PLUGGED 11.01.49 # which means? 11.02.02 # load different settings if the unit is connected to the mains 11.02.07 # ah 11.02.14 # yes, it could make sense 11.02.27 # a general event handler seems the way to go. 11.03.04 # not sure i understand 11.03.25 # Zagor: calling a plugin when the charger is inserted? 11.03.41 # yup 11.04.16 # not just a plugin though, different actions. many people probably want to load a different .cfg, for car use. 11.05.16 # dream on, zagor... :-) 11.05.54 # Zagor: it could be a plugin that loads that different .cfg 11.05.57 # sounds damn cool to me 11.07.12 # my point is if/when someone writes autoexec code, it should be done in a generic way to allow use for different events. 11.07.13 # of course! ...for the simpler autoexec idea ...write a plugin called autoexec.rock and just call that from the core code ...the delay is irrelevant, the disk needs to spin up to run the first .rock anyway 11.07.35 # I agree 11.08.03 # What if you want to launch several plugins? 11.08.10 # you can't 11.08.25 # In the Future(tm), everything will be possible :) 11.08.27 # the autoexec.rock could use a config file and run whatever you tell it to 11.08.29 # dwihno: you just have a text file with a list of events 11.08.35 # like autoexec.bat 11.08.47 # neato 11.08.58 # ok ....d) is gone 11.09.12 # or the .cfg files could be able to run a plugin... 11.09.40 # then it would be autoexec.cfg 11.09.45 # lol 11.10.02 # i suggest you only ever call PlugChain.rock and let that do all the work :) 11.10.20 # no, that's left for emacs.rock ;-P 11.10.27 # lol 11.13.22 # can we move onto e 11.14.22 # e) must be completely stand-alone and won't be in the way, right? 11.14.35 # i think it should go right in 11.14.44 # me too 11.15.06 # then f ...which we've already covered 11.15.21 # and is no longer an issue - i need to look into that further 11.15.43 # you'll figure out the viewers.config file in no time 11.15.51 # cool :) 11.16.04 # g ..hmmmm 11.16.20 # we really should write some docs about it 11.16.26 # yes, it is a real change, but I think a worthy one 11.16.40 # there is a lot of room for more docs in rockbox 11.16.43 # I don't understand the g) point 11.16.47 # we need a manual man 11.16.50 # yes 11.17.21 # g ...my volume scale is not linear 11.17.34 # ie 127/100*volume 11.18.06 # but that's a plugin 11.18.17 # it works around the core 11.18.26 # I propose that it is considered for inclusion 11.18.35 # that Rockbox change it's scale 11.19.18 # it's a big change, yes, and adding another switch to on/off it is extra work, but I think it is a worthy improvement 11.19.38 # I believe in it enought to research it and do it properly 11.19.57 # still not a single soul has reported volume problems 11.20.27 # it's a case of not knowing that it can be made better 11.20.30 # except for those who like you realized that there are some resolution losses in current code 11.20.55 # indeed - and I made it my job to fix it and offer it to the community 11.21.38 # if they like it, it might be nice to adopt it for rockbox 11.21.48 # except that we're not allowed to use your patches 11.22.03 # back to square 1 11.22.27 # you don't use my patch - work it out for yourself fom the results in the public forum 11.22.57 # anyway, that g) issue is also stand-alone 11.22.59 # btw... you CHOOSE not to use my code for reasons that are not known to me 11.23.05 # they are known 11.23.13 # scroll back 100 lines 11.23.22 # no thanks 11.25.27 # I suggest that we solve the problem like this: you provide the core group with your real, actual, name, we keep it hidden from the public and we credit you as "Anonymous nicknamed Bluechip" or somesuch 11.25.58 # how many different ways do i have to prove im not lying 11.26.13 # why do you ask that? 11.26.26 # then forget it 11.26.42 # why would you lie? 11.26.47 # it is a fair question 11.27.20 # LinusN: Bagder has apparently retracted his offer before I could answer his question :( 11.27.39 # then how do you suggest we solve this? 11.27.52 # I reach out here 11.27.54 # you do not 11.27.58 # by being nice to each other or a start 11.28.10 # i have offered a solution 11.28.22 # which is? 11.28.46 # take the core changes and pretend it was someone elses idea 11.30.21 # and constantly hear things like this in the mailing list: 11.30.24 # "I think the chances of NewMP3Tech crediting you is about as unlikely as Rockbox crediting me." 11.30.30 # ? 11.30.56 # please put the whole thing in context 11.31.15 # jorg was complaining to me personally that his work was uncredited 11.31.26 # i replied "me too" 11.31.29 # the ideas are not special. the point is we want to offload the work of writing the code. your solution gives us no benefit. 11.31.52 # that was not the context. read the archive. 11.32.17 # here we go again 11.32.24 # i'm getting real bored of this guys 11.32.30 # so are we 11.32.46 # so how do we resolve it? 11.32.54 # i think daniels idea was good 11.32.59 # by "mud slinging"? 11.33.07 # i don't 11.33.46 # you were downright rude at me in your private emails 11.34.12 Join Bagder_ [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) 11.34.23 # i was? 11.34.29 # or zagor? 11.34.43 # zagor 11.34.58 # you repeatedly refused to ask my question. you still do. that, if anything, is rude. 11.35.06 Quit Bagder (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.35.06 NSplit anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 11.35.06 Quit Hes (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.35.09 # s/ask/answer/ 11.35.14 # right 11.35.16 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~dast@labb.contactor.se) 11.36.45 # i took a three hour grilling from Linus over this - I just can;t be arsed to go through it again and again 11.36.59 # grilling is perhpas a harsh word 11.36.59 # :-) 11.36.59 # bbq:ing? 11.37.00 # ...but it was discussed in immense depth for three hours 11.37.12 # lol 11.37.49 # and therefore I am rude. go figure. 11.37.50 Quit Bagder (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.37.50 Quit dwihno (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.37.50 Quit webmind (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.37.50 Quit Hadaka (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.41.32 Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) 11.42.27 Quit AciD` (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit mbr_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit ze (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit julia (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit amiconn (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit BlueChip (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit silencer (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit LinusN (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit Ka_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.42.27 Quit NHI (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.43.29 NHeal anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 11.43.29 NJoin Hes [0] (~hessu@he.fi) 11.43.29 NJoin Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) 11.43.29 NJoin webmind [0] (~cme2@217-195-236-172.dsl.esined.net) 11.43.29 NJoin Hadaka [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi) 11.43.29 NJoin dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) 11.44.11 # lovely splits 11.45.45 NJoin amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.45.45 NJoin BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 11.45.45 NJoin LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 11.45.45 NJoin AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 11.45.45 NJoin ze [20] (psyco@adsl-67-123-40-187.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 11.45.45 NJoin mbr_ [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) 11.45.45 NJoin julia [0] (~julia@207-36-180-196.ptr.primarydns.com) 11.45.45 NJoin silencer [0] (~silencer@nino.via.ecp.fr) 11.45.45 NJoin NHI [0] (doc@b089204.customer.hansenet.de) 11.45.45 NJoin Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp04776551pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) 11.46.54 # the new opera irc-client doesn't even notify of nSplit. It just says "nick" has disconnected 11.48.16 Quit mbr_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit AciD` (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit julia (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit ze (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit silencer (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit LinusN (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit BlueChip (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit amiconn (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit Ka_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.48.16 Quit NHI (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11.51.36 NJoin NHI [0] (doc@b089204.customer.hansenet.de) 11.51.38 NJoin AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 11.51.38 NJoin julia [0] (~julia@207-36-180-196.ptr.primarydns.com) 11.51.38 NJoin mbr_ [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) 11.51.38 NJoin ze [20] (psyco@adsl-67-123-40-187.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 11.51.40 NJoin amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.51.40 NJoin BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 11.51.40 NJoin LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) 11.51.40 NJoin silencer [0] (~silencer@nino.via.ecp.fr) 11.54.10 NJoin Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp04776551pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) 11.56.09 # welcome back one and all 11.56.51 # c ...shal we just leave this until people rave about the new plugin and then consider the best solution then - we've already proved we can work together well if we put the rubbish behind us 11.57.39 # 11.57.55 # have you guys all left? 11.58.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.07.45 # Scansoft's Realspeak is an even better text-to-speech-engine 12.08.19 # there are roumors it's in the house here, but nobody knows where I can get a copy. 12.08.37 # kazaa? 12.16.16 # hmm, "goodbye" would have been nice - still I presume that some important "nmi" type thing happened and wish you well with that as well :) 12.30.48 # BlueChip: Sorry, I am at work, so it happens someone asks me to help him or sth like that. 12.30.53 # whats nmi ? 12.31.27 # kazaa doesn't work for me, not at work :-/ furthermore, we got a LEGAL version at work 12.31.57 # sorry limbus, not aimed at you, i was in a heavy chat with Zagor and Bagder, and they both just stopped talking when Linus went to lunch 12.32.08 # non-maskable-interrupt 12.34.55 # IC. i'm off for lunch now too. 12.44.27 # we were off for lunch 12.45.00 # we work in the same building 12.45.24 # ahhhhh, it all becomes clear 12.46.03 # anyway, i used the time to rapair my answerphone :) 12.46.45 # bought it 2nd hand (old two phillips cassette style one) ...the messages on it were quite amusing 12.47.28 # wooh - first time :) 12.47.34 # *oo 12.47.35 # lol 12.52.26 # did you want to comment on my solution to c) 12.53.32 # which one? 12.54.31 DBUG Enqueued KICK BlueChip 12.54.31 # 01c ...shal we just leave this until people rave about the new plugin and then consider the best solution then 12.55.06 # yes 12.55.31 # then everything is resolved :) 12.56.20 # BlueChip: the volume fade thing when powering off, is the fade important, or is the ridding of the pop enough? 12.56.36 # ridding the pop 12.56.56 # ok 12.56.58 # you're gonna tell me the mute does it aren;t you - lol 12.57.25 # well, i have though about using the mute for it, have you tried it? 12.57.48 # no, i didn't know the register, those lines I just banged out from memory 12.58.16 # the correct way is probably to mute, then turn off the D/A 12.58.22 # but I do recall something about ramping in the manual, hence mt 0.1S delay at the end 12.58.44 # turn off d/a seems anal - in the good way 12.58.56 # iirc, the manual recommends it 12.59.05 # in which case i retract that comment 12.59.18 # maybe some silicon reason 13.00.41 # it would be really nice to trap it before hardware powerdown too 13.01.10 # hmm, i can't find it in the manual, i guess i was wrong 13.01.40 # well, it'll save a few bytes 13.02.15 # done lots of that the past few days - spent half my time optimising code to be under 32K after optimising it for screen update speed - lol 13.03.17 # did you know static const char foo[0]="foo" is identical to #define foo "foo" as far as codespace is concerned ...but #define allows prep-processor string manipulation :) 13.09.36 # What do you think of the new Audio stuff? 13.09.47 # I haven't seen it 13.10.08 # so I can't comment 13.10.26 # do you plan to remain untainted? 13.10.36 # basicly, yes 13.11.00 # that's fair, it's good to have principles :) 13.11.06 # but its also a matter of time 13.11.41 # oh, by the way, what's happnening with my othelo code, i'm surprised you lawyers didn't mention it when you spoke to them 13.11.49 # it will be removed 13.12.09 # cool, then I can remove the old version from my site :) 13.12.12 # unfortunately 13.12.45 # nah dude, I'm surprised you didn't do it a long time ago, I guessed you didn't want all the questions about why 13.14.07 # "01but its also a matter of time" ...til what? 13.14.20 # that limits what I do 13.14.39 # aha 13.14.44 # rather "lack of time" 13.14.51 # yes 13.14.58 # well feel free to use it or not use it as you prefer :) 13.15.27 # it is DAMN awesome though ;) 13.15.57 # :-) 13.17.10 # hey, dude, if you're worried about some legal backlash, why not we agree on an appropriate legal disclaimer? 13.18.21 # my post has just arrived ....the top letter is a parcel (some chewing gum) from a friend addressed to "BC" ;) 13.18.39 # even the postman knows me as BC - lol 13.18.54 # you are not a legal entity. we cannot have an agreement with you. 13.19.14 # ok, just offering options 13.20.00 # i'd love to have an agreement with you, but it would be worthless unless we (or rather the lawyers) know who you are. 13.20.35 # perhaps I should deal with your lawyers directly, who are they? 13.21.04 # I am talking about future lawyers, hired by the guys who sue us. 13.21.47 # what are they going to be sueing for? 13.21.54 # code theft maybe? 13.22.03 # copyright infringment, perhaps? 13.22.29 # neither of which I have done - so these are fears of what does not exist? 13.22.46 # just see the samizdat book 13.23.13 # BlueChip: mere words weigh lightly in these matters, I'm afraid :( 13.23.49 # so, i email you and say "my name is fred smith" and you just believe me right? 13.23.55 # yes 13.24.03 # if we have no reason to doubt 13.24.08 # ahhhh 13.24.13 # which you now have given us 13.24.15 # the get out clauses 13.24.20 # you don't have to convince me about this. but I need to be able to convince some company in the future who says we've done wrong. 13.24.48 # but my dear zagor, i DO have to convince you, that is what this is all about, isn't it? 13.24.55 # yes 13.25.00 # but if you tricked us 13.25.02 # and "we got this code from some guy who calls himself Bluechip" is not a very good defense. 13.25.09 # i have to convince you I am not trying to stiff you by writing loads of code for you 13.25.24 # no. you are not a problem. our liability is. 13.25.33 # that information is easy to suppoena 13.25.36 # (sp?) 13.26.13 # well, as me telling you my name is no longer good enough, what other solution can you offer? 13.26.26 # it is good enough 13.26.31 # if you tell us your real name 13.26.42 # we need your real and legally binding name. it's as simple as that. 13.29.17 # for which you assure me of your absolute silence outside of a legal issue when my name will only be given where legally required and I am credited in rockbox as BlueChip, have I got the deal right? 13.29.44 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) 13.31.26 # Heh, this is an interesting discussion. These days I rather give out my real name than my email address on the Internet - the email address identifies myself more uniquely than my name (which is still relatively uncommon and the family name is protected 8-) 13.32.20 # I agree, I am imminently traceable from my emails, but you need a legal suppoena to do it :) 13.32.53 # (subpoena, i guess the sp) 13.32.59 # thanks 13.34.09 # BlueChip: i'm afraid not. i will not accept code without a the author's name on it. 13.34.49 # I am disappointed that you have retracted your earlier offer 13.35.09 # i gave an offer? 13.35.19 # you mix people up all the time BlueChip 13.35.19 # indeed you did 13.35.27 # *I* asked you that 13.35.32 # that was bagder's idea, iirc. and you never responded to it. 13.36.57 # checking logs for sanity 13.37.20 # so if i don't respond immediately, the offer is implicitly retracted? 13.37.49 # it was a question from me if that was a working approach for you 13.38.00 # I was not saying that I speak for the whole project 13.38.21 # I hardly ever do 13.38.41 # yep, you are, of course, right, I got my wires crossed on who, sorry 13.39.01 # been up for 28hrs, so I'm blaming that 13.41.58 Join Guest02330 [0] (~jirc@202.5.88.150) 13.42.01 # stop drinking all that tea 13.42.20 # so, this is more than a legal ass-covering excercise then ...hmmm 13.43.46 # this is becoming much more of a nuisance than your code is worth, to be honest. 13.44.27 # please tell me if I am wrong 13.50.25 Quit Guest02330 ("Leaving") 13.51.39 # wrong about what? 13.52.05 # about it not only being a legal ass-covering exercise 13.54.35 # it's about not making rockbox a viable target for legal harrassment. the solution is spelled transparence. 13.54.41 # i trust you understand that "ass-covering" is a commonturn of phrase 13.57.19 # i think it's spelled "transparency" :-) 13.57.28 # yes, but I understood 13.57.55 # just teasing zagor 13.58.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.00.23 # well, we seem to be at an empass ...the only code you ever took of mine was the othelo code - so you might want to consider the legal ramifications of that, I will stop submitting code for rockbox, but will carry on support the community with help, devkit, toys, etc and as for this mega-audio plugin ...well it seems that Rockbox is going that way anyway, so the "fork" (which is not a fork (matrix?)) will be temporary like those 14.02.24 # What is the english word for the grill contraption? :) 14.02.25 # Grill? 14.02.37 # lol 14.02.53 # haha 14.02.54 # I'll let you know when the searing stops - lol 14.05.24 # Zagor: help me out on this one :) 14.06.05 # are you talking about the metal device positioned atop burning coal? 14.07.15 # you bet :D 14.07.44 # It's a grill. 14.07.47 # Yes. It is. 14.07.51 # I've decided that now. 14.07.57 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 14.07.57 # * dwihno is doing some translation stuff 14.08.09 # "Grill with lava rocks" 14.08.25 # "grill: A cooking surface of metal bars; a gridiron" 14.08.56 # Mmm. The Grid. Swamp thing. Texas cowboys. 14.09.12 # how 90s of you ;) 14.10.15 # ... combined with our grill with lava rocks ... 14.10.21 # with with with with 14.10.26 # does that sound too bad? 14.10.32 # I am SO 90's! 14.11.18 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p508763DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 14.11.19 # yes :( 14.11.30 # (to the bad? thing) 14.12.21 # how should it sound then? :) 14.12.36 Part kurzhaarrocker 14.13.00 # what is combined? 14.13.08 # ...with it 14.13.54 # high grade meat and ingredients :) 14.13.56 # I think "grill with lava rocks" is probably the problem, but I guess that the product description 14.14.04 # ok.... 14.14.57 # "This Grill with Lave rocks is the perfect companion for those fine cuts of beef" 14.15.01 # Lava 14.15.09 # ah 14.15.11 # sounds god 14.15.12 # good 14.16.04 # linguistics in advertising is a branch of my socio-psychological studies 14.17.12 # get all the good advertising trance phrases from George Carlin's "Advertising Lullabuy" for a load more classics 14.18.01 Join mattzz [0] (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 14.18.10 # buy buy buy? :) 14.18.20 # If you call now, you'll get an extra set for FREE! :D 14.19.25 # BUY now you may find yourself wondering if you can grasp the biggest clue of all, because WHEN you call now and pay by credit card .....etc 14.20.09 # the fun stuff is the subliminals, my hompage is covered in that crap 14.22.56 # hiho folx 14.23.32 # good day mattzz 14.23.58 # anybody got a time-zip laying around? 14.24.12 # hm, I believe dwihno sells them :-P 14.24.36 # hope, it's not too beta 14.24.42 # *duck* 14.25.12 # Audio_3587 is just beta enough :) 14.26.11 # I FINALLY finished it 14.38.02 # Is there a roadmap or a rough timeline for the next RB release(s)? 14.38.30 # my suggestion: once the docs is made, we ship ;-) 14.38.45 # sounds good to me 14.38.56 # Hm, when could that be? 14.39.16 # it'll take a while I think 14.39.16 # depends on how much you help with the docs :) 14.39.45 # I expected that answere ;-) 14.39.51 # -e 14.40.20 # and I already asked for a brandnew time-zipper 14.40.41 # when you find one, get one for me too ok? 14.41.05 # could the task of documentation writing be split into chunks that are distributed to a bunch of people? 14.41.18 # it could indeed 14.41.20 # absolutely 14.41.22 # a todo-list would could be helpful as well 14.41.53 # so we could speed up the task by setting priorities 14.41.55 # "someone" needs to organize it 14.42.03 # maybe the wiki is a starter? 14.42.20 # using a wiki for it would be goodness 14.42.20 # and i need to fix the recording i broke when implementing the pause feature 14.42.25 # * mattzz heard somebody shouting "core team" 14.43.32 # perhaps we could have "someone" paste the existing manual into a wiki, and then through people at updating the flaws 14.43.37 # throw 14.43.52 # Anyone up for an MP3 that the Jukebox cannot play? 14.44.03 # or rather, can only play badly 14.44.07 # pass it to linus, he like them! ;-) 14.44.10 # * Zagor looks at linus :) 14.44.17 # damn it I type badly today 14.44.24 # almost as bad as my voice is 14.44.40 # Do not shout at your keyboard! 14.45.17 # why not? I have a microsoft one 14.45.21 # :-) 14.46.09 # Zagor: is there progress with a twiki installation for rockbox? docs can easily be attached and versioned there, progress/task tables are easy to do as well 14.46.30 # maybe it's just a matter of tools 14.46.47 # yeah, i'll fix it 14.47.01 # If you need help, contact me. 14.47.48 # ok, thanks 14.48.06 # brb, meeting prep. 14.48.14 Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|away (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 15.34.49 Part LinusN 15.34.49 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.37.10 Part oxygen77 ("Leaving") 15.41.06 # WOOHOO I made PAGE 1 :) 15.41.15 # lol 15.41.20 # JOKING! 15.41.27 # :-) 15.58.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.08.31 Nick mattzz|away is now known as mattzz (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 16.08.34 # uff 16.24.58 # http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?DocumentationStatus 16.25.14 # it's a start at least 16.25.34 # yay 16.26.09 # uuhhhh....work! 16.26.20 Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|afk (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 16.26.25 # Just so it is in the IRC logs. This is a one line notice (to those who are not on the mailing list) that I have today released Audio_3587, which allows access to the advanced audio setup available to the sound chip found inside all Jukebox Recorder units ...I will not fill the log with the hype - I will let the plugin speak for itself (and it does ...speak, that is) ....It's all here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems 16.28.07 # * Bagder updated DocumentationStatus 16.29.40 # did amiconn restrict the shades to 8/16/32 does anybody know? 16.29.55 # it was apparently worth a 60% speed increase 16.31.33 # BlueChip: No, not yet. I didn't have the time to work on grayscale the last days. 16.31.48 # BlueChip: cute slogan "no more secrets" ;) 16.32.10 # lol ... the site is covered in that stuff 16.32.31 # please also note that the GPL requires you to give out source code with all binaries. 16.32.32 # Furthermore, the next thing to implement is full clipping support, and some consolidation 16.32.52 # hello amiconn, didn't spot you off the top of my screen :) 16.33.15 # no gpl means I have to make the source available 16.33.50 # BlueChip: thus "coming soon" is breaking the gpl 16.33.57 # and anyway, there's no secrets there, the source is already there but no links yet 16.34.02 # techically at least 16.34.05 # lol 16.34.11 # gee me and typing 16.34.20 # i didn't even notice 16.34.26 # i was more referring to you as a person. "no more secrets" doesn't sound like your thing. ;) 16.35.16 # the code which I have not released for klondike (for which there is a very specific reason) is not gpl, it is a discreet seperate unit to work along side a gpl program 16.35.36 # hehe 16.35.40 # that's violating the license 16.35.55 # bad boy 16.35.58 # Zagor: Don;t you love irony? ;) 16.36.02 # lol 16.36.08 # do you want the source? 16.36.18 # it WILL taint you, but it IS available :P 16.36.34 # make it available and I'm happy, I don't need to read it 16.37.11 # actually 16.37.16 # well, I don't technically need to, but be assured it is available and will be openly posted when it is fit for poor-programmer consumption 16.37.23 # I am happy already, but not giving out the source is not nice 16.37.38 # THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE! 16.37.43 # where? 16.38.12 # direct from the author at no cost (although I am entitled to charge anything I like) on request 16.38.45 # actually, ignore that bracketed bit, that's obvious, cos my code is not GPL'd 16.38.52 # ...and you are bound by gpl to provide code 16.39.11 # IF I used your code in the making - which I didn't 16.39.12 # dynamic linking is no different from static linking. your code is covered by the Rockbox GPL. 16.39.51 # I don't think I like where this is leading 16.39.56 # http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins 16.40.13 # this is rockbox 16.40.17 # ;-) 16.42.25 # cool - well, I'm not releasing shit code publicly, but public posting of code is not a requirement so that's fair enough 16.42.41 # anyway, you'll get your chance to not look at it when it works properly 16.42.45 # :) 16.42.48 # ;) 16.42.55 # that's still a violation 16.43.02 # but I won't stress it 16.43.02 # zzzzzzz 16.43.14 # whoops, hit send too sonn 16.43.42 # soon 16.44.25 # so, as this is a purely academic chat, which bit states where I have to post my source code? 16.44.43 # the GPL 16.44.57 # yes, the GPL, which bit? 16.45.08 # lemme find you a good url... 16.45.17 # http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AnonFTPAndSendSources 16.45.27 # that faq is recommended reading 16.46.18 # it is paragraph 3 in the GPL 16.46.25 # http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html 16.48.07 # jeezuz, i'm not listening to what people have to say on GPL again, I don't think anybody I've ever spoken to understands it - LOL 16.48.24 # this is nothing like that which I have come to believe to be true 16.48.38 # you are starting to scare me 16.48.48 # ? 16.48.57 # you should listen to the FSF, if anyone :-) 16.49.18 # Linking to GPL'ed software is considered "derivative work" by the license (as gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins says), and paragraph 3 says that you must give out the source of any derivative works. 16.49.24 # BlueChip: your talk about you understanding GPL better than us 16.49.28 # I've never bothered reading it myself, boring, so I just gather information from those who speak knowledgeably on this and certain other lesser matters of life 16.49.32 # The FSF FAQ (and the license) is very clear on this. 16.49.50 # Bagder: no, quite the contrary 16.49.56 Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@69.2.235.2) 16.50.18 # the exact opposite, my knowledge seems fatally floured in this area 16.50.46 # I read the license when I first installed slackware with kernel 1.1.something, it seemed very obvious to me. 16.51.52 # I think the point is that the source code must be supplied from anonymous ftp, so that the source is always available - my site is far from anonymous - but still interesting to consider 16.52.38 # but as you say, it's a matter of not enough time, to much chat 16.52.38 # anonymous ftp means the user is anonymous, not the site. http is equivalent - you don't need an account to gain access 16.52.44 # These things are the reasons some people dislike the GPL strongly, even calling it a virus. The xBSD license are more "free". 16.53.14 # yes. you should not choose it without reading it carefully first... 16.53.21 # I don't really care, I give out all my source anyway, but I have heard the term "copyleft" said with distain 16.53.43 # I think I prefer the SockerBulle license. 16.53.54 # As long as everybody keeps socker on their bullar, I am happy :D 16.54.37 # how about, "post it and let people do whatever" license - now THAT's free speech - don't censor anybody about anything that way 16.54.37 # "bullar"? 16.55.13 # Buns :D 16.55.15 # Yum! 16.55.20 # BlueChip: yes, that's appropriate for some things. in those cases you don't use the GPL. 16.55.50 # GPL is just another form of censorship 16.55.50 Quit lImbus (Remote closed the connection) 16.55.53 # the GPL is designed to ensure the code, and all modifications, remain available to the users forever. 16.55.53 # BlueChip: that could make you liable for damages in some countries, and that's why people tend to include a disclaimer as well 16.56.04 Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) 16.56.30 # ... as the MIT/X license basicly say 16.56.46 # if that is contrary to your goals, i supposed you may feel censored by it... 16.57.06 # it will contrary to someones goal, so it has to be :) 16.57.26 # yes, but those people didn't write the code. :) 16.58.02 # no those imposing censorship normally wrote the code 16.58.19 # why is GPL censorship in this case? 16.58.32 # censorship is in "you may not hide the source"? 16.58.37 # s/is/as/ 16.58.55 # sounds a bit backwards to me :) 16.59.09 # EXAMPLE: My choice to delay the release of my code until it is stable and useable, is under attack by a person waving the "gpl" flag 16.59.26 # and that is censorship? 16.59.43 # I need to get a better vocabulary, my says the reversed thing 16.59.46 # it stops me from living my life the way I feel is most beneficial to me and those I care about, so yes 16.59.48 # but you already distribute it! 17.00.02 # everything except the source code 17.00.06 # BlueChip: so then don't distribute it, no one forces you to 17.00.12 # my code for klondike, technically yes, but nobody wants it anyway 17.00.14 # it can't be *that* unstable then, can it? 17.00.34 # so post a huge warning about it 17.00.51 # it's not like adhering to the gpl is a lot of work 17.01.00 # That's not censorship. It's your choise whether you distribute your code. If you don't distribute it because you dislike it, that's healthy self-censorship 8-) 17.01.08 # few things in life are about how much work is involved 17.01.25 # LOL - touché 17.01.49 # i gotta get a drink... 17.01.50 # :-) 17.04.12 # these objections are about as old as the GPL is 17.05.13 # yes, very deeply discussed elsewhere. It's good we've got a lot of good licences that we don't have to write our own any more (just need to read a few, which is much easier). 17.05.39 # too right, no point in making something up when a winning argument already exsits - there's a reason they've been around for years ;) 17.05.40 # amen 17.06.45 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 17.13.23 Join elinenbe_ [0] (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 17.13.37 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.13.53 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 17.18.36 Join elinenbe_ [0] (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 17.18.49 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.19.06 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 17.20.50 Nick mattzz|afk is now known as mattzz (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 17.21.20 Part Bagder 17.25.00 # gotty leave, see you later 17.25.16 # gotta...go 17.25.18 Quit mattzz ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)") 17.43.31 # elinenbe: where is the mp3cut plugin to be found? 17.43.31 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.46.44 # i'm off for today. see you guys. 17.46.48 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting") 17.46.53 # l8rz dude, peace 17.58.10 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.46.53 Quit lImbus (Remote closed the connection) 18.59.01 Join mattzz_ [0] (~mattzz@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 18.59.12 Nick mattzz_ is now known as mattzz (~mattzz@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 18.59.32 # re hi 19.00.45 # hi 19.27.25 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 19.37.01 Part BlueChip 19.43.22 Join Brian1 [0] (~jirc@dhcp065-025-156-152.columbus.rr.com) 19.43.33 # Hi all 19.46.12 # hi 19.48.51 Quit Brian1 ("Leaving") 19.54.26 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) 19.58.14 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.12.39 Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) 20.12.39 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.45.39 Quit mattzz ("Client exiting") 21.13.36 Join mattzz [0] (~mattzz@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) 21.14.50 # Dammit, my batteries are emtpy and I cant get rockbox into charge mode again. Any ideas? 21.17.14 # mattzz: Perhaps charge them externally? 21.18.20 # amiconn: I have no charger 21.19.05 # Maybe I can find an old NiCd charger, dont know if thats a good idea.... 21.20.03 # mattzz: You could charge even with an old NiCd charger, IF you charge only a short time (barely enough to get rockbox running again) 21.20.05 # mattzz: have you got other batteries ? 21.20.28 # I could use the ones from my siemens gigaset ;-) 21.20.56 # so charging 2 by 2 should do the trick 21.20.58 # you can change 2 batteries. that should be enough to get where you want to 21.21.34 # yup 21.21.34 # argh. 21.21.58 # lImbus, mattzz: _Never_ put different battery cells in series, especially not rechargeable ones 21.22.11 # aha ? 21.22.26 # maybe I should just plug the other end of the charger into the power outlet.... 21.22.40 # * mattzz is sooooo stupid 21.22.46 # Ooops ;-) 21.22.48 # mhmm, that sounds good. 21.23.23 # amiconn: why not mix batteries for a short time ? 21.24.00 # * mattzz will doublecheck both ends of the charger next time. 21.24.09 # lImbus: For a short time this may be ok, but remember that mattzz wanted to get rockbox starting in order to charge them. 21.24.27 # This is definitely not a good idea with different cells in series. 21.25.54 # The less rated and/or more charged cells may get overcharged and damaged as the charger may not detect that they are fully charged 21.26.28 # mhm. aha. good to now. sounds logical at least. 21.28.45 # The same thing may happen while discharging: The less rated and/or more discharged cells become empty earlier, and may get damaged by reverse polarization (?) 21.36.16 # before I throw that idea away: if mattzz had the same batteries in his gigaset, he could try it ? 21.37.16 # I wouldn't even do that, since the charge state (?) may be different. 21.37.57 # What I would've done in this case: Put the first 2 batteries into the gigaset, charge them fully 21.38.20 # (2) Put the second two into the gigaset, charge them fully 21.38.29 # yeah, of course 21.38.48 # even if NiCd and NiMH mixed ? 21.39.32 # They wouldn't be mixed in this case, since the Gigaset runs from 2 AA NiCd/NiMH cells (I happen to own one too) 21.39.55 # I mean charger type mixed to battery type 21.40.56 # (1) The gigaset charger can charge both types, since a NiMH charger can _always_ be used as a NiCd charger 21.41.11 # aha 21.41.22 # mhmm. so no way to charge one single battery in a proper manner ? every charger I know only charges in pairs. aren't there a lot of devices having only ONE battery ? 21.42.21 # (but not vice versa: The basic charging sequences of NiCd and NiMH cells are the same, but the NiMH variety is more sensitive) 21.43.06 # lImbus: There is a way to charge single cells properly - buy a decent charger. Mine does charge every cell separately 21.44.44 # I would never use these cheap charge-in-pairs chargers, since the money saved on that charger would be over-compensated later by the early need of new cells 21.47.33 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) 21.47.33 Quit scott666 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.49.14 # lImbus: Btw, I don't have any device that runs from a single battery (except some wall/alarm clocks, but these aren't usually run from rechargeables) 21.54.34 Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) 21.58.18 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.03.01 Join mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@69.2.235.2) 22.18.02 Quit mecraw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.19.16 Part amiconn 22.37.55 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.38.36 Quit mattzz ("Client exiting") 22.50.15 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@c25025a.hud.bostream.se) 23.05.23 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com) 23.05.49 # hi guys 23.06.12 # evening 23.06.29 # aint adsl fine? ;-) 23.06.50 # hey Zagor and Bagder 23.06.54 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) 23.07.07 # Bagder: hehe 23.07.47 # * Bagder reads the latest tanenbaun rebuttal 23.08.07 # the rebuttal to the rebutal to the rebuttal? 23.08.14 # yes 23.13.58 # amiconn anyway: tnx for that enlightenment, i was somehow afk :-/ 23.16.04 # ok guys, if off for today. am gettin hungry :-) 23.16.14 # enjoy your food! 23.16.26 # s/if/i'm 23.16.34 # certainly I will. mcdonalds 23.16.50 # but thanks anyway ;-) 23.16.57 Quit lImbus () 23.58.19 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"