--- Log for 23.09.104  Server: leguin.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 27 days and 13 hours ago

00.00.36 #       <amiconn> Odd.
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01.21.01 #       <plok> I've had a H340 for weeks. I have a feeling their release in the US was quite delayed
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03.37.29 #       <bagawk> hi midk 
03.37.32 #       <bagawk> are you there?
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07.16.25 #       <midk> hi LinusN 
07.17.24 #       <oxygen77> bonjour midk;)
07.17.47 #       <midk> et vous, comment t'appelles-tu. merci, madame.
07.17.54 #       <oxygen77> :)
07.20.51 #       <LinusN> hi all
07.21.10 #       <midk> are you impressed with my vast french skills? et vous? tres bien.
07.22.24 #       <LinusN> impeccable
07.22.35 #       <midk> merci, mademoiselle.
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08.00.03 #       <adiamas> woohoo.. well that was a bit painful but worked
08.00.18 #       <midk> hey adiamas.. what's up?
08.06.21 #       <adiamas> not much.. stuck in albany ny... it sucks
08.06.26 #       <adiamas> but atleast im employeed..
08.06.27 #       <adiamas> you?
08.07.04 #       <midk> not much also, just about to head to bed
08.07.19 #       <midk> :)
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08.16.13 #       <midk> bonne nuit.
08.16.20 #       <Bagder_> night midk 
08.16.33 #       <midk> :)
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08.21.59 #       <LinusN> m68k-elf-gcc --target-help lists 5249 as a target, but doesn't understand the -m5149 option :-(
08.22.41 #       <Bagder_> -m5249 I take it?
08.23.21 #       <LinusN> yes
08.23.52 #       <LinusN> but the assembler accepts it
08.24.31 #       <LinusN> it doesn't really matter, the 5407 target would probably work just as well
08.25.10 #       <LinusN> provided that you apply my patch to the assembler, of course :-)
08.25.21 #       <Bagder_> :-)
08.26.31 #       <LinusN> well, it doesn't really affect gcc, since gcc doesn't emit EMAC instructions anyway
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08.28.42 #       <dwihno> emacs instructions? :)
08.29.02 #       <dwihno> meta+v+b+a+s/shift+x, control+xvbp
08.29.14 #       <dwihno> emacs humour deluxe :)
08.30.02 #       <LinusN> i use emacs to fix emac bugs :-)
08.30.12 #       <dwihno> :)
08.30.50 #       * LinusN is porting the rockbox context switching code to coldfire
08.31.34 #       <LinusN> i wish gdb had a simulator for coldfire... :-(
08.32.15 #       <dwihno> You're still gathering schematics?
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08.44.32 #       <LinusN> dwihno: no, i'm holding that until i get the broken unit
08.44.45 #       <dwihno> LinusN: care to share your current status?
08.44.51 #       <LinusN> status:
08.45.02 #       <dwihno> Getting gcc to produce native code?
08.45.35 #       <LinusN> 1) I'm working to connect to the target with gdb via the bdm interface
08.46.03 #       <LinusN> this has yet not been done, since Real Life has precedence
08.46.15 #       <dwihno> true, true
08.46.16 #       <LinusN> 2) i'm porting the threading code
08.46.43 #       <LinusN> while doing that, i found a bug in the assembler, that i have fixed and sent a patch to the binutils project
08.47.19 #       <dwihno> cool!
08.47.22 #       <LinusN> this means that we must build the cross compiler with the CVS version of binutils
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08.53.05 #       <Bagder_> or provide a patch against a specific version
08.53.34 #       <dwihno> LinusN: your patch got approved? that's a good thing!
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09.10.45 #       <plok> Does anyone find Hold swithces useful? The iRiver has a hold Switch, but I'm guessing you could double your effective number of buttons by using it to switch between two different modes?
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09.21.53 #       <PaulS> I put my attempt at a GPIO map up on the wiki.  Expect mistakes.
09.22.08 #       <PaulS> (It's in the "Memory Map" section)
09.23.12 #       <PaulS> I was a little disappointed yesterday that the remote LCD's SPI is done via software "bit-bang".  I had a suspicion it was done that way when I did some logic analyzer traces.
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09.43.28 #       <Zagor> the broken ihp120 arrived this morning
09.43.43 #       <Bagder> nice
09.43.44 #       <Zagor> we've just unsoldered the cpu, the flash and the usb board
09.43.51 #       <LinusN> we have noe officially slaughtered it :-)
09.43.54 #       <Zagor> (and the lcd and the button of course)
09.44.05 #       <LinusN> s/button/joystick/
09.44.08 #       <Bagder> doing nice pics too?
09.44.14 #       <LinusN> will hitnthe scanner tonight
09.44.23 #       <Zagor> hitn? ;)
09.45.27 #       <LinusN> nflba
09.45.29 #       <LinusN> lsiud
09.45.37 #       <LinusN> thick fingers, too little coffee
09.45.49 #       <Bagder> uh coffee...
09.45.55 #       <Bagder> coooofffeeee...
09.46.03 #       * Bagder runs away for a moment
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09.47.56 #       <kurzhaarrocker> How do you unsolder bga's? With these hair dryer like heat guns?
09.51.27 #       <Zagor> very small hair dryers :)
09.51.53 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Ah, a special air operated smd soldering tool?
09.52.32 #       <Zagor> yeah
09.53.38 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Did you check the thing was really broken before? Just in case the seller was a moron that didn't know that you must turn the unit on to operate it.
09.53.51 #       <Zagor> we don't want to know :)
09.54.46 #       <kurzhaarrocker> *sigh of greed*
09.55.13 #       <PaulS> (Dead IHP) Truly sweet. I hope the GPIO map makes some of the signal tracing faster.
09.57.07 #       <LinusN> now we will be able to trace thing really well
09.57.42 #       * kurzhaarrocker hides from LinusN
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09.59.38 #       <PaulS> So far it doesn't seem like there are any PLDs hiding anywhere, which makes things pretty cut and dry once the datasheets start falling.  In the case of the LCD displays (the only major things we don't have definitive docs on) I think it's pretty clear from the code how to access them.
10.00.41 #       <LinusN> full ack
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10.47.42 #       <Zagor> i think bagder drowned in his coffee
10.48.07 #       <Bagder> aaaaaah
10.48.09 #       <Bagder> :-)
10.49.48 #       * kurzhaarrocker puts some Single Malt Whiskey into Bagder's coffee
10.50.11 #       <LinusN> blasphemy!
10.51.31 #       <Bagder> hey, I'm driving today
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10.52.40 #       <Bagder> grrrr
10.52.46 #       <Bagder> darned FAT 
10.52.55 #       <Bagder> rsync gets upset with mixed case
10.53.49 #       <Bagder> my local uppercase dir gets lowercase on the fat fs
10.54.08 #       <LinusN> there are vfat options for that
10.54.37 #       <Zagor> plok: I'm not sure the cpu even knows when the hold switch is activated.
10.55.04 #       <Bagder> aha
10.55.07 #       <Bagder> case=asis
10.55.25 #       <Bagder> (Default: case=lower.)
10.55.38 #       <Bagder> silly
10.55.54 #       <Zagor> also, we've had tons of requests for a hold switch that prevents accidental poweron. so people do want a real hold switch.
10.56.09 #       <Zagor> Bagder: that is very silly
10.57.12 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Yes that poweron problem sucks.
10.58.30 #       <Bagder> no, its called 'shortname=mixed'
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11.00.35 #       <Bagder> and it works
11.01.33 #       <Bagder> rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete /data/mp3/* /mnt/archos/
11.02.34 #       * Bagder runs off
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11.12.37 #       <LinusN> i found the problem with the broken iriver, it was a loose battery connector
11.12.50 #       <Zagor> haha
11.12.53 #       <LinusN> just kidding
11.13.44 #       <dwihno> You got your broken iriver?
11.13.53 #       <LinusN> yes, and it's slaughtered
11.13.54 #       <kurzhaarrocker> And you're telling me whiskey in the coffee is blasphemy!
11.14.00 #       <LinusN> kurzhaarrocker: :-)
11.14.02 #       <dwihno> Great news!
11.21.00 #       <Zagor> lunch
11.36.02 #       <ashridah> LinusN: 'slaughtered' as in soaked in water, or in a thousand pieces?
11.36.58 #       <kurzhaarrocker> probably soaked in solder.
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11.58.59 #       <PaulS> Nope.  More like slaughtered as in the CPU and flash have been burnt to a crisp and dragged screaming from the PCB.  Now LinusN is poking and prodding in the raw empty sockets.  Eww!
12.10.20 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Should we involve amnesty international?
12.25.36 #       <ashridah> heh. the ebay report didn't mention the extent of the damage. how did it get fried/
12.25.38 #       <ashridah> ?
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12.34.50 #       <Zagor> ashridah: we don't know. there was no visible damage.
12.36.45 #       <LinusN> and we honestly don't want to know
12.37.20 #       <LinusN> it feels better if we can think that it was beyond hope
12.37.27 #       <LinusN> :-)
12.44.18 #       <Zagor> yikes, a $75 donation. i think we have a competition ;)
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12.54.40 #       <Zagor> LinusN: did you get any off events during lunch?
12.58.22 #       <LinusN> not a single one :-) :-)
12.58.37 #       <Zagor> great!
12.58.53 #       <LinusN> i'm perfecting the code, expect a commit soon
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13.01.25 #       <Zagor> nice...
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13.01.54 #       <LinusN> Zagor: split personalities?
13.02.36 #       <Zagor> my wife restarted the computer at home, which started xchat
13.02.43 #       <LinusN> aha
13.02.59 #       <LinusN> xchat in rc.local? :-)
13.03.47 #       <Zagor> nah, gnome restarts the applications you had open if you don't close them when you reboot.
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13.09.14 #       <Zagor> hi jörg
13.09.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hi Björn et al
13.09.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> more FAT news?
13.09.55 #       <Zagor> i left you a message in the log last night :)
13.10.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, saw that
13.10.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> log works ;-)
13.10.27 #       <Zagor> no news otherwise
13.10.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I think I still will commit the #ifdef code first, so we don't lose it
13.10.58 #       <Zagor> ok
13.11.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the fuctions you mentioned:
13.11.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I have duplicated them to avoid if's in the innermost loop
13.11.48 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Now that I have an external MMC to test, I got some puzzling results. Obviously the internal flash doesn't want to talk to me, while accessing the MMC works fine. I'm able to read the CID register (splashes over the Rockbox logo at boot)
13.12.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not to degrade performance for the FAT32 variant
13.12.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: the we'll do the external first :-)
13.13.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/the/then
13.14.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: did you thest 1 or 2 sector clusters?
13.14.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> test
13.14.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and is it still working on FAT32?
13.15.01 #       <Zagor> oops, didn't try that :)
13.19.40 #       <ashridah> fantastic. my tv just melted
13.19.45 #       <Zagor> !
13.20.05 #       <ashridah> probably a dying cap. it'd been shorting out and turning off occasionally for months
13.21.24 #       <Sebulba02> joy
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13.28.15 #       <ashridah> ah well. trip to the jbhifi to buy a new one tomorrow :(
13.31.14 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: I would like to find the problem with the internal flash first.
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13.35.46 #       * kurzhaarrocker doesn't want an Ondio. According to the daliy build page it's the only device that doesn't rock. :(
13.36.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: yea, this is surprising. The internal one has a reset, and we have the very datasheet for it.
13.36.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the situation for the external is much less controlled
13.41.12 #       <amiconn> Yes, and the datasheet I have for *my* external card (256 MB Transcend) is rather short
13.41.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 256MB, whow!
13.41.41 #       * [IDC]Dragon got only 64
13.42.12 #       <amiconn> If you have different types of external cards, you could try my hacky test version of ata_mmc.c and tell me your results
13.44.31 #       <amiconn> I got the 256 MB for ~30 € (new, not from eBay)
13.45.04 #       <ashridah> man. if i had 240V training, i'd probably take this tv apart and see if i can replace the caps myself :(
13.46.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ashridah: perhaps you can train yourself to 240V. Start low, then increase it gradually. ;-)
13.48.03 #       <LinusN> lol
13.56.11 #       <ashridah> heh
13.56.40 #       <ashridah> nah. all the electronics i've worked with would only kill you if you decided to poke wires under the skin
13.56.44 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Should we inlcude that in the battery faq?
13.57.22 #       <Zagor> ashridah: well you're not supposed to replace the caps while your tv is still connected to power :)
13.58.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> And I thought it was vital to solder in the new caps precharged.
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14.06.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: yet, I can try your version
14.28.42 #       <elinenbe> good morning from New York!
14.29.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> morning, ha
14.29.05 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Good afternoon from old europa
14.29.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> everything is a bit older here, even the day
14.30.02 #       <elinenbe> yeah -- unless you live in my apartment... looks like the place was built in the 12th century
14.30.24 #       <kurzhaarrocker> :)
14.30.30 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which part of the city?
14.35.00 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Should I eMail it or put it on webspace?
14.36.08 #       <elinenbe> [IDC]Dragon: in Manhattan
14.36.24 #       <elinenbe> [IDC]Dragon: I live on the upper east side, but work in midtown.
14.40.09 #       <elinenbe> it looks as if the iriver port is progressing... sounds nice!
14.40.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I once stayed for a weekend in upper west. iirc
14.40.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> th only Big Apple time for me
14.41.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> visiting WTC while it had a year to last
14.46.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN: what a hefty button rate now!
14.46.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> preparing for arcade action?
14.47.11 #       * kurzhaarrocker would prefer heavy peak meter action over button rate :)
14.47.26 #       <Zagor> haha, didn't you adjust the button repeat count linus?
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14.47.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no, he did, I just meant the scanning
14.48.03 #       <Zagor> ah
14.49.00 #       <LinusN> we can lower it if it's a problem
14.49.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> nice simple implementation, mine was a bit overly complex.
14.49.57 #       <LinusN> i felt that the repeat acceleration was nicer with the higher rate
14.50.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but I simplified other ends, in turn
14.50.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> made a table from the ADC limits
14.50.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (I just love tables to save code)
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14.57.30 #       <elinenbe> do the button limits correspond to the dirrerent versions of the hardware, or is it just pretty much random?
14.58.31 #       <elinenbe> LinusN: seriously, what was the condition of the broken iriver?
14.58.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> they depend on the resistors Archos has used
14.59.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Xiph.org relesed libvorbis 1.1.0
14.59.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> released
14.59.30 #       <LinusN> elinenbe: no visible damage at all
14.59.36 #       <LinusN> it just didn't start
14.59.44 #       <LinusN> could be anything
14.59.50 #       <LinusN> probably something simple
15.00.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> like, broken internal PCB traces ;-(
15.00.08 #       <elinenbe> ah nice... have you torn it apart yet?
15.00.20 #       <LinusN> yes, all IC:s are removed
15.00.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> all?
15.00.29 #       <LinusN> yes
15.00.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so you have a blank PCB now?
15.01.03 #       <LinusN> the passive components are still there
15.01.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, yes, that irrelevant stuff
15.01.22 #       <LinusN> :-)
15.01.51 #       <elinenbe> [IDC]Dragon: I understand that, but are the capacitors different in the different versions of the hardware, or is there some sort of standard?  I understand capacitors have room for error, but how visible is the error b/w 2 of the same model?
15.01.55 #       <kurzhaarrocker> It might have been a good idea to leave any 0-ohm resistors :)
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15.08.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> elinenbe: the resistors differ across models, but not within one. they are perhaps 1%
15.08.59 Join    pyros [0] (~hof@ppp147-141.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net)
15.10.19 #       <pyros> :o
15.10.20 #       <pyros> hi
15.10.22 #       <pyros> anyone awake?
15.10.32 #       <Bagder> awake I am
15.10.47 #       <elinenbe> yawn!
15.13.28 #       <pyros> are you contributors or just followers of the project?
15.14.01 #       <Bagder> we are many contributors around
15.14.17 #       <pyros> ah :)
15.14.45 #       <pyros> i've got an iriver h140, was having a talk to one of the misticriver admins about this project
15.14.56 #       <pyros> sounds awesome, hopefully you guys will be able to fix up the downfalls of the iriver :D
15.15.22 #       <Bagder> hopefully, yes
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15.16.56 #       <pyros> i hear rockbox secured a dead iriver as well?
15.17.07 #       <Bagder> yes
15.17.15 #       <Bagder> it is even more dead now ;-)
15.17.15 #       <kurzhaarrocker> LinusN killed it completely now
15.17.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN hassome replacement chips now
15.17.43 #       <pyros> heh
15.18.17 #       <pyros> so with the archos firmware, if you produce a dodgy build you're just able to revert back to a stable build?
15.18.42 #       <kurzhaarrocker> on the archos yes
15.18.45 #       <pyros> mm
15.19.04 #       <pyros> do you think there'll be the ability to do that on the iriver?
15.19.06 #       <Bagder> it isn't that hard
15.20.01 #       <Bagder> besides, I assume we load the firmware from disk during the first time of development anyway
15.20.17 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Is ist clear wether a partial write of the flash is possible?
15.20.29 #       <kurzhaarrocker> s/clear/known
15.20.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> did nobody find a loader-kind of thing in it yet?
15.20.48 #       <pyros> with the iriver you can't load from an external source as far as i know - not currently, anyway. a hex file has to be run from the root directory to update from
15.21.27 #       <pyros> cause i guess that's going to be the biggest hill to overcome - ensuring that you don't end up with a paperweight if a flash goes bad :\
15.21.42 #       <Bagder> I disagree
15.21.51 #       <pyros> yeah?
15.21.53 #       <Bagder> if _that_ is the biggest hill then it all will be easy
15.24.03 #       <pyros> but, suppose the iriver can't be flashed externally and it has to be done via loading a file from the hdd itself..?
15.24.24 #       <Bagder> step 1 - we write a firmware load that _works_
15.24.29 #       <Bagder> loader
15.24.37 #       <Bagder> it can be debugged and reflashed using BDM
15.24.45 #       <Bagder> even if it goes totally boom
15.24.53 #       <pyros> BDM ?
15.24.56 #       <Bagder> yes
15.25.06 #       <Bagder> so, when that works, it can load a firmware and run it
15.25.16 #       <kurzhaarrocker> bdm A debugging interface using a serial interface
15.25.17 #       <pyros> ah, orsm :)
15.26.16 #       <Bagder> then it'll just be a matter of replacing the file on disk when it is bad
15.26.20 #       <Bagder> and reboot
15.28.42 #       <pyros> nice
15.29.09 #       <LinusN> provided that you still can access the disk via usb to put the new file on it
15.29.20 #       <Bagder> right
15.29.24 #       * kurzhaarrocker wonders if it might be possible to glue in a bga chip using conductive glue
15.29.25 #       <Bagder> is that fully sw?
15.29.36 #       <LinusN> what is?
15.29.42 #       <Bagder> the usb
15.29.48 #       <LinusN> isd300
15.29.50 #       <Bagder> aha
15.29.56 #       <Bagder> how neat
15.30.15 #       * Bagder is slightly clueless on iriver
15.30.21 #       <LinusN> or rather, a cypress isd300 clone
15.30.40 Nick    ashridah is now known as Lost-tv (ashridah@dialup-a1-354.Melbourne.netspace.net.au)
15.31.10 #       <Bagder> current stats: 594 subscribers of the mailing list
15.31.19 #       <pyros> mmm...mailing list
15.31.22 #       <pyros> might sign up for that
15.31.34 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'll wait until our wizards made the bulldozers part on the iriver before I consider buying one.
15.31.37 #       <LinusN> we should at least include a monitor on the serial port like we do in the flash version of rockbox
15.32.13 #       <pyros> kurzhaarrocker: do you have a player at the moment?
15.32.31 #       <kurzhaarrocker> no, I am stuck with that archos jukebox recorder crap
15.33.32 #       <pyros> mm
15.33.38 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'd love it if the audio electronix in it was better.
15.33.43 #       <pyros> i bought an iriver based on the fact that it was perceived to be an awesome player
15.33.53 #       <pyros> and the player has proved that it is all that :)
15.34.03 #       <Hadaka> which iriver?
15.34.06 #       <pyros> h140
15.34.15 #       <Hadaka> does it charge off USB?
15.34.23 #       <LinusN> no
15.34.31 #       <Hadaka> so only H3x0?
15.34.39 #       <pyros> nope, but there's a minisync cable that can charge it from usb
15.34.58 #       <pyros> the minisync cable charges + uses usb interface, so you can charge and access the player at the same time :)
15.35.25 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I'd prefer an external charger anyway. And spare AA batteries of course :)
15.35.27 #       <pyros> they've had some troubles with it and windows xp so far, once they've got a v2 cable out that works with xp i'll buy one. it's only $14u.s.
15.35.39 #       <Hadaka> ah, right
15.36.16 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Trouble with xp? With an isd300 clone chip? Strange.
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15.36.26 #       <Hadaka> well, I think I'll be buying the iriver as soon as rockbox works on it ;)
15.36.33 #       <pyros> something to do with irqs, kurzhaarrocker 
15.36.42 #       <pyros> i'll find the thread on misticriver, i just bumped it today
15.37.14 #       <pyros> http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showpost.php?p=41064&postcount=68
15.37.24 #       <pyros> ^^ boxwave's official announcement about it
15.39.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> That explains a bit: I don't have usb2.0 :)
15.39.44 #       <pyros> heh
15.39.53 #       <pyros> i have 4usb 2.0 onboard
15.39.59 #       <pyros> no, 6
15.40.09 #       <pyros> 2 on the front of my case + 4 on the back
15.40.14 #       <pyros> i use...2 ports :)
15.40.32 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Thus you could buy another 4 irivers.
15.40.39 #       <pyros> a most excellent idea
15.45.30 #       <Bagder> "I know i probably shouldn't use this submission for this"
15.45.32 #       <Bagder> sigh
15.45.49 #       <Bagder> (quote from a bug tracker entry just filed)
15.45.50 #       <pyros> so how long has it taken to get from the first steps of the archos to releasing the fully fledged firmware?
15.46.11 #       <Bagder> define "fully fledged" ?
15.46.26 #       <pyros> functional..working
15.46.33 #       <pyros> fully fledges was a bad choice of words
15.46.55 #       <pyros> good enough to release to the public :)
15.47.25 #       <Bagder> Dec 2001 - work started
15.47.31 #       <LinusN> it took us a few months
15.47.36 #       <Bagder> end of dec, LCD-code on recorder worked
15.47.48 #       <Bagder> may 3rd, we had sound
15.48.05 #       <Bagder> june 19th, it worked on recorder too
15.48.35 #       <Zagor> http://rockbox.haxx.se/history.html
15.48.48 #       <pyros> ah, ta :)
15.49.41 #       <kurzhaarrocker> <- never believed it would get past the first enthusiasm. The task is just so big.
15.50.21 #       <pyros> lol
15.50.32 #       <pyros> so roughly 5 - 6 months before first release, that's pretty neat
15.50.59 #       <Bagder> this time we have more code to re-use
15.51.23 #       <Zagor> you mean: this time we have code to reuse :)
15.51.37 #       <Bagder> that's a better way to put it, yes ;-)
15.51.38 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Now I assume it won't be longer for the iriver than a month or two if no serious showstoppers occur.
15.52.16 #       <pyros> sweet
15.52.24 #       <pyros> <3 open source stuff
15.54.34 #       <Bagder> ?
15.55.01 #       <Zagor> <3  is a heart smileu
15.55.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> It looked like dropped ice cream to me.
15.55.35 #       <pyros> lol
15.55.36 #       * Bagder faints
15.55.41 #       <pyros> that's what i thought when i first saw it :P
15.55.57 #       <Bagder> c>
15.56.00 #       <Bagder> ;-)
15.56.08 #       <Bagder> ice cream cone
15.56.16 #       * LinusN added a FAQ entry about 20Gb disks having 18Gb free space in the info page
15.56.28 #       <Zagor> hehe
15.56.37 #       * Bagder salutes LinusN
15.56.48 #       <kurzhaarrocker> It wasn't me who frequenlty asked that!
15.57.48 #       * LinusN is drawing schematics
15.58.35 #       <kurzhaarrocker> I thought you wanted to skip that - just trace the vital connections.
15.59.35 #       <Zagor> schematics are golden
16.00.09 #       <Zagor> hmm, that sounded really weird
16.01.07 #       <kurzhaarrocker> schematics don't sound weird. They sound wired.
16.01.21 #       <LinusN>  /kick kurzhaarrocker
16.01.24 #       <Bagder> that hurt!
16.01.54 #       * LinusN wonders what kurzhaarrocker is smoking
16.02.21 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Hey, it's not me who brethes the soldering fumes!
16.02.27 #       <LinusN> :-)
16.03.05 #       <dwihno> Släppa alla förbehåll å kraaav!
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16.11.41 #       <LinusN> time to go
16.11.43 Part    LinusN
16.12.41 Part    kurzhaarrocker
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16.22.06 Nick    Lost-tv is now known as ashridah (ashridah@dialup-a1-354.Melbourne.netspace.net.au)
16.32.17 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: http://arnold-j.bei.t-online.de/Rockbox/ata_mmc.c
16.35.48 Join    AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
16.35.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: check it in!
16.36.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you should change: Copyright (C) 2002 by Alan Korr
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16.44.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: this already is a lot of code, respect
16.46.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the original ata code somehow publishes the disk info, we could place the CID content there
16.48.52 #       <Zagor> yes, ata_get_identify
16.50.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> is that ASCII?
16.50.36 #       <Zagor> no, it's the identify sector returned by the IDENTIFY ata command
16.52.31 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16.54.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm, so emulate that format
16.57.21 #       <Zagor> i'm not sure that's worthwile. it will be a lot of code.
16.57.33 #       <Zagor> maybe just add an ata_get_cid
17.00.17 #       <amiconn> Zagor: mmc_get_cid then. I try to stay compatible with existing ata functions, but new functions should be prefixed with the "proper" type (imho)
17.02.27 #       <Zagor> yes
17.02.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but then it's not interchangeable?
17.03.23 #       <amiconn> It isn't interchangeable anyway, since the CID is MMC specific
17.03.29 #       <Zagor> emulating the identify sector is going to take hundreds of lines of code. it's not worth it.
17.03.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> using this, I mean
17.04.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but then we need th adjust the debug screen
17.04.05 #       <Zagor> yes
17.04.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/th/to
17.04.31 #       <Zagor> i guess spinup time isn't really applicable either ;)
17.04.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'd try to make this minimum invasive
17.05.17 #       <Zagor> that's a good ambition, but the debug screen is outside the "rules". there is too much hardware-specific code in there to make it general.
17.06.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> shoudn't be that much code to mocj up an identify sector with what we have, zero the rest
17.06.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/mocj/mock
17.07.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but I see you point
17.07.07 #       <Zagor> ok. i don't know how the cid looks so I can't say. if you think it's a good idea, go ahead.
17.07.11 #       <amiconn> I'll replace the "show disk info" with "show MMC info" (#ifdefed)
17.08.44 #       <amiconn> A lot of hings that are in the ata identify sector aren't relevant for mmc (like max_multiple_sectors, pio mode etc.). Then there are relevant parameters for MMC that don't exist for ata (e.g. maximum clock frequency)
17.09.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK, new info is better
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19.37.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: do you read?
19.39.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> anyway, I tried your driver, it doesn't say much
19.41.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> just CMD0|1 resp: 
19.41.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> both 01 (101) for external MMC,
19.42.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> for internal, same for cmd0 first, then changes to 05 (101) for cmd1
19.42.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no fancy test output
20.19.18 #       <amiconn> Hmm, strange. It should say (and does for me with external card) 0x01 (1) for cmd0, 0x00 (some..) for cmd1, then a box telling some info from the CID. However, the latter can only work if the responses were boh correct.
20.21.04 #       <amiconn> What all this means: after power up/reset/mmc mode we first have to send cmdp (go idle state) with CS asserted to tell the card to go into spi mode. The card response must have set bit 0 (only), meaning idle state
20.23.32 #       <amiconn> Next thing is to wake up the card with cmd1. The card will respond with 0x00 when it is ready, which may take some time. Until it is ready, the card answer will be 0x01 (idle), so the command has to be repeated
20.24.26 #       <amiconn> The number in () tells how many repetitions were done until the correct answer was received, 101 is the timeout.
20.25.57 #       <amiconn> I get the same responses as you for internal flash, and sometimes 0xFF for both commands, meaning it doesn't answer at all
20.26.28 #       <elinenbe> in that timeline above I think you forgot that in May 2002 Sokoban was written for the recorder -- before it even had sound!
20.27.37 #       <amiconn> The answer 0x05 is the most puzzling here: bit 2 set means "illegal command". I wonder what illegal thing I'm doing to it...
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20.33.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm
20.34.00 #       * [IDC]Dragon is watching a movie now
20.38.45 #       <amiconn> It seems I have to decipher some more asm code...
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21.56.04 #       <elinenbe> amiconn: what does the asm code do?
21.56.55 #       <amiconn> It's the disassembler listing of the archos fw for Ondio (rather, the part that I have identified to be the mmc driver)
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22.24.41 #       <amiconn> re Jörg
22.24.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> back for a sec
22.26.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are you on the MMC now?
22.26.29 #       * [IDC]Dragon feels he's no help, not having read the datasheets
22.27.12 #       <amiconn> Just googled a bit; found the crc algorithms. After doing some tests with that, I'll compare datasheets, port values and (probably) some multimeter measurements
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22.27.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> multimeter this time?
22.27.50 #       <amiconn> Yes, checking logical levels
22.28.02 Part    deathdruid
22.28.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I use the scope for that, too
22.28.43 #       <amiconn> Yes, I can do that too (probably easier, since the scopy is already near the Ondio)
22.28.50 #       <amiconn> *scope
22.28.55 #       <amiconn> Too bad I don't have a logic analyzer
22.29.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> nice nickname :-)
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22.29.23 Nick    scopy is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD95D135A.dip.t-dialin.net)
22.29.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I have a storage scope, too, but that's hard to operate
22.30.48 #       <amiconn> I only have a simple analog scope, specced up to 5 MHz only. Although it manages to show the 12 MHz bridge clock
22.31.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 5 MHz is the 3 dB corner, no sharp limit
22.31.22 #       <amiconn> yup
22.31.39 #       * [IDC]Dragon got a whoppy 60 MHz scope
22.31.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> </brag mode>
22.32.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> bought if with my first money
22.41.13 #       <amiconn> Hmm, CRC-7 algorithm works correctly
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22.47.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I get a different response now: FF both, for internal
22.49.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> external is 01 (1) and 01 (101)
22.50.08 #       <amiconn> You can check 3 times per boot: 1st at boot, 2nd at usb insertion, and 3rd at usb removal. After that rockbox panics
22.50.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah
22.50.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the shutdown is not working, I wonder why
22.51.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> always have to hold like >10sec
22.51.20 #       <amiconn> At (1), most of the time I get FF too from internal flash. At (2) and (3) I usually get 01 (1) and 05 (101) from internal
22.51.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how can I help?
22.52.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> got some time now, if I don't fall asleep
22.52.08 #       <amiconn> Shutdown works for me, it's just that you have to release the button after holding it for more than 2..3 secs
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22.53.03 #       <amiconn> As long as you hold the button, the Ondio will still be powered
22.55.00 #       <amiconn> It's too bad the flash is a bga
22.55.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are you in doubt about the connections?
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22.55.50 #       <amiconn> I wonder if there might be inverters...
22.56.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> where?
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22.56.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hey all 'ya Zagors
22.56.56 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: For the chip select(s), reset signal...
22.57.21 #       <Zagor> :)
22.57.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> where should those hide?
22.58.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> does the code read like it should be inverted?
22.59.35 #       <amiconn> Dunno yet, just wild guessing from the odd behaviour.
22.59.53 #       <amiconn> Perhaps I should check port values by read-back
23.00.07 #       <amiconn> ..*before* initializing anything
23.00.27 #       <amiconn> The ROM firmware accesses the internal flash, so it has to use the SCI
23.00.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> might be interesting
23.01.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but we can as well measure the Archos firmware "at work"
23.01.13 #       <amiconn> Of course we can't read the lcd port values, for obvious reasons
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23.02.11 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: I found one reason why the archos fw is smaller than rockbox - it does things in a more centralized and hence more compact way
23.02.26 #       <amiconn> For instance, there is a global port init
23.02.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> most of all, it's smaller for far less features
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23.03.54 #       <amiconn> From that, I have an interesting finding for you (Ondio FMR). Are you sure that PB0 is FM readback and PB4 is FM write?
23.04.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no, it could be the opposite
23.04.38 #       <amiconn> I'm asking because PB0 is initialized as GP out (of course this might be due to the lcd data), but PB4 is initialized as GP in...
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23.05.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> can check in more detail, still have the tuner daughterboard off
23.05.22 #       <amiconn> Does the Ondio work without the tuner board?
23.05.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
23.10.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: could you perhapsrun the tests for FAT32?
23.11.41 #       <Zagor> sure
23.17.31 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: CRC-16 does work now too. The MMC CRC-16 does *not* use the CCITT init (0xffff), but uses 0 instead. So in case we want to use CRC protection, I'm prepared...
23.18.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but a different polynomial, right?
23.18.42 #       <Zagor> == Test completed successfully ==
23.18.53 #       <amiconn> Yes, it's a different one from the CRC routine we already have.
23.19.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> phew, looks like I didn't break it
23.19.32 #       <amiconn> Time for some real world tests... too bad MMC doesn't work yet :(
23.20.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: repeating myself, I don't think we need CRC protection for this close transfer
23.20.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we're not doing int on ata, either
23.20.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> butit's always goo to know how things work :-)
23.22.07 #       <amiconn> Yes I know, but (1) it may help finding mistakes in the transfer routines for debugging and (2) I just wanted to see if I'm able to get *something* working at all :(
23.27.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: how's FAT16 with1 or 2 sectors/cluster?
23.28.15 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23.28.35 Part    LinusN
23.28.40 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23.29.36 Part    LinusN
23.29.38 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23.31.07 #       <Zagor> [IDC]Dragon: it works fine
23.31.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN seems undecided about his presence
23.31.24 #       <LinusN> setting up my new xchat installation
23.31.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> great, thanks for testing!
23.35.59 #       <LinusN> gotta get some sleep, nite folx
23.36.06 Part    LinusN
23.51.38 Quit    methangas (" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
23.51.46 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Checked the port settings & values @ rockbox start (very first thing in init() ) - nothing suspicious so far