--- Log for 14.10.104  Server: burroughs.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 9 days and 23 hours ago

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00.21.20 #       <_Lucretia> Anyone know anything about CalmRisc? it's the CPU inside the MT-500, by the looks of it
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07.29.57 Mode    "#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07.32.18 Topic   "Rockbox - rocks your box" by LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
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08.17.31 #       <amiconn> Good morning
08.17.37 #       <LinusN> morning
08.18.41 #       <amiconn> LinusN: The fake poweroff works nice on Ondio :)
08.18.48 #       <LinusN> wonderful
08.19.34 #       <LinusN> i and zagor discussed it yesterday, and we have pretty much agreed on removing the "shutting down" splash alltogether
08.20.16 #       <amiconn> Hmm. Imho this adds a bit of responsiveness, so I wouldn't remove it
08.20.34 #       <LinusN> and just fake a poweroff and do the housekeeping when it's "off"
08.22.17 #       <amiconn> Although that should give the same responsiveness, it may irritate the user if he tries to switch back on too early, or simply by the fact that the hd based models may still show some activity after the display is apparently showing "off"
08.23.20 #       <amiconn> I got the "switch back on too early" problem myself on the player, even with the current rockbox behaviour. I had to learn that I have to wait several seconds before switching it on again
08.23.47 #       * LinusN feels the "off-but-not-really-off" discussion coming up, similar to the dreaded charging screen
08.24.43 #       <Zagor> i say we try it. if it doesn't fell good, we revert.
08.24.46 #       <Zagor> feel
08.25.24 #       <amiconn> A propos - the archos recorder fw does exit to the charging screen after the idle timeout ;)
08.25.38 #       <LinusN> it does?
08.26.20 #       <LinusN> i guess they have their reasons
08.26.42 #       <LinusN> they don't shut of the hard drive power
08.26.49 #       <LinusN> only in the charging screen
08.27.08 #       <LinusN> so they probably charge slightly faster in the charging screen
08.27.18 #       <amiconn> About the shutting down splash - it is displayed for ~1 sec even on Ondio
08.27.31 #       <LinusN> which reminds me that we might want to do the same for the player
08.27.42 #       <LinusN> amiconn: yes, sleep(HZ)
08.29.17 #       <LinusN> perhaps the splash is unneccessary on the ondio
08.30.12 #       <LinusN> i personally think that i'd like to know why the disk spins up when i turn off the fm recorder, so the splash is not entirely useless
08.30.48 #       <LinusN> faking a poweroff and spinning up the disk afterwards might be perceived as a bug
08.30.55 #       <amiconn> (Ondio) I agree. If the ~1 s is caused by the sleep(HZ) only, it makes no sense.
08.31.08 #       <LinusN> at least the user has no idea what is going on
08.31.27 #       <LinusN> it could even say "saving settings"
08.31.36 #       <LinusN> then there is no confusion
08.31.41 #       <amiconn> (Recorder) yes, thats what I was trying to say with ... may irritate the user ... by the fact that the hd based models may still show some activity after the display is apparently showing "off"
08.32.35 #       <LinusN> on second thought, i think the splash should stay, saying "saving settings"
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08.33.46 #       <amiconn> Remember that rec v1 and player don't switch off immediately with the poweroff() function, because it is done by holding the off/stop key "pressed"
08.35.23 #       <LinusN> v1 and player can only be cleanly shut off with the OFF "double click"
08.36.13 #       <LinusN> and the poweroff() function shuts them off instantly
08.37.39 #       <LinusN> else the idle poweroff wouldn't work
08.39.26 #       <amiconn> Yes I know. I mean, the splash should be displayed on v1/player even if there is no spinup necessary on shutdown, because the display won't go away immediately.
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08.40.02 #       <LinusN> i don't understand what you mean
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08.41.03 #       <LinusN> if nothing needs to be saved, the shut down is instant
08.41.53 #       <LinusN> ah, now i get it
08.42.07 #       <LinusN> sorry, me silly
08.42.33 #       <amiconn> V1 and player don't switch off immediately with the poweroff() function, because there is no real soft poweroff by fliping a port pin, but they do the off by faking a continous press of the off button, and then the hw poweroff kicks in, after ~1 sec
08.42.47 #       <LinusN> yup
08.42.51 #       <LinusN> you are correct
08.44.19 #       <amiconn> Of course it's power_off(), and I should know, as I fiddled with power.c yesterday ;)
08.48.01 #       <LinusN> :-)
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09.29.47 #       * Bagder noticed http://neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net/
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09.33.06 #       <knoppix> Has anyone reported anything strange about "insert into playlist" / "queue"?
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09.33.43 #       <LinusN> not really, why?
09.34.12 #       <kurzhaarrocker> When I try to insert / queue the playlist changes entirely and the newly inserted file is played instantly
09.34.51 #       <kurzhaarrocker> After the inserted file has been played it doesn't return to the original playlist but continues to play the directory where the inserted file is seated.
09.35.11 #       <Zagor> sounds like it does a simple PLAY instead of insert
09.35.16 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
09.36.31 #       <LinusN> is the playlist playing when you do this?
09.36.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> yes
09.37.04 #       <LinusN> is it a regular playlist or a dir play?
09.37.14 #       <Zagor> appears to be a button bug
09.37.17 #       <Zagor> i get it too
09.37.30 #       <kurzhaarrocker> In my case it was a regular playlist that was resumed from a bookmark.
09.38.05 #       <LinusN> probably a stray release event
09.38.34 #       <Zagor> yup
09.40.09 #       <Zagor> found it, fixing
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09.40.53 #       * kurzhaarrocker attaches a "Incredibly Quick Bug Squisher" award to Zagor
09.42.15 #       * LinusN attaches a "most bugs introduced in one CVS commit" award to Zagor
09.42.19 #       <Zagor> ;)
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09.42.37 #       <Zagor> your 1254 warnings is still a record that's hard to beat
09.42.57 #       <LinusN> that was one bug that gave many warnings, that doesn't count :-)
09.43.07 #       <ashridah> 1254?!
09.43.08 #       * LinusN hides
09.43.10 #       <ashridah> from one file?
09.43.24 #       <ashridah> or was it a file that got included in lots of others...
09.43.34 #       <LinusN> yup
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09.44.09 #       <kurzhaarrocker> LinusN you probably are just not as good as Zagor at _hiding_ bugs
09.44.21 #       <LinusN> precisely
09.44.29 #       <LinusN> he's sneaky
09.45.02 #       <Bagder> let's burn him!
09.45.23 #       <Bagder> he turned me inte a newt!
09.45.26 #       <Bagder> into
09.45.37 #       <kurzhaarrocker> btw: I made my external charger measure the capacity of my batteries once more. They are better than I remembered. Each one has > 1350 mAh.
09.47.31 #       <LinusN> then you might have a bad battery connection
09.47.32 #       <Zagor> and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped
09.53.16 #       <amiconn> Zagor: Another button bug: If you enter the playlist viewer from the menu, it immediately triggers "play" on the first entry, effectively restarting the playlist (at least on Ondio)
09.53.44 #       <Zagor> ah, haven't fixed playlist viewer. will check.
09.54.19 #       <amiconn> Btw, I used some of your dynamic button mechanisms for the plugins.
09.56.32 #       <Zagor> nice
10.00.01 #       <amiconn> E.g. in the jpeg viewer, zoom in is short press of menu button, while zoom out is long press
10.00.07 #       <amiconn> ..on Ondio
10.02.06 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Bagder: What do I read? Song db support?
10.03.24 #       <Zagor> kurzhaarrocker: we've started looking at it. it's a lot of work left.
10.04.17 #       <amiconn> Although it may be of use for some users, I'm pretty sure Iwon't use it
10.05.12 #       <Zagor> my slimp3 has both, and I find I use the database almost exclusively for searching
10.07.42 #       <amiconn> Usually I know where to find the track I'm looking for. In the rare case where I don't know, the search plugin is sufficient (for me)
10.08.40 #       <kurzhaarrocker> For me the database becomes interesting as soon as it containst statistical data like how often I listened to that song, how often I skipped it...
10.09.07 #       <Zagor> we don't plan to add that, at least not initially. the database will be read-only.
10.10.51 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Once it is established it might be a piece of cake to add that functionality. But still there are more important features lacking.
10.12.04 #       <LinusN> why would the statistics have anything to do with the id3 database?
10.13.12 #       <LinusN> kurzhaarrocker: for the record, what features do you think are lacking?
10.13.35 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Because it would be interesting to search eg for the least often played songs in order to clean them out.
10.14.01 #       <kurzhaarrocker> An id3 tag editor that could be used while recording would be great.
10.14.02 #       <LinusN> kurzhaarrocker: yes, but why mix it with the id3 database?
10.17.18 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Think id3 database -> song database, then it makes sense. Separating it would just add another database...
10.17.47 #       <LinusN> agreed
10.22.05 #       <amiconn> @devs: It should be perfectly possible to deal with a fairly large on-disk database with the archos' limited CPU power and RAM. On the Amiga, there is a GUI program that handles the Internet Movie database (several 100 MB) in a proprietary on-disk database format, with reasonable RAM consumption, and not too long response times. Unfortunately it is not open source.
10.23.15 #       <Bagder> I have no doubts that we'll manage
10.23.23 #       <amiconn> The program does create that proprietary database format from the imdb text files (also several 100 MB) within a couple of hours
10.23.40 #       <amiconn> ..on a real Amiga, that is
10.24.04 #       <Bagder> do any such still exist? B-]
10.24.05 #       <amiconn> A song database will be much smaller
10.24.22 #       <amiconn> Bagder: yes of course
10.24.29 #       <Bagder> I know, just being mean
10.24.44 #       <Bagder> we were amiga users once too you know
10.24.52 #       * kurzhaarrocker even has 1 1/2 C64 :)
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11.41.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> good morning folks
12.06.11 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Morning ;)
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12.16.30 #       <MisticJeff> Good Afternoon
12.18.56 #       <LinusN> hola
12.20.00 #       <LinusN> MisticJeff: can you confirm that the H1xx series is discontinued?
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12.27.39 #       <Zagor> that would be ironic :)
12.28.23 #       <MisticJeff> LinusN:  sorry i'm here
12.28.52 #       <MisticJeff> I cannot officially confirm it, but my instincts tell me that it probably has ceased production
12.29.39 #       <LinusN> how ironic
12.30.21 #       <Zagor> I have a hard time believing that iriver can seriously expect to replace the h100 series with the h300. it's way more expensive and caters to another group of people. ipod owners don't necessarily want a photo viewer, especially at twice the price
12.30.43 #       <Zagor> "ipod" being used in a virtual sense, as "harddisk mp3 player"
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12.32.48 #       <ashridah> the h340 is the same price the h140 was here when it hit the stores
12.33.30 #       <Zagor> also they have no less than three lines of flash players. why would they cut their hd range in half, unless the product doesn't sell?
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12.34.28 #       <Zagor> ashridah: yes, but prices come down on all models. h140 is much cheaper than h340. why only keep the expensive model, driving price-consious customers to other brands?
12.34.57 #       <Zagor> i think there is something here we are not seeing yet
12.35.01 #       <MisticJeff> like i said guys i have no official word on that I'm just guessing by what I read
12.35.14 #       <Zagor> yeah, i'm just speculating and guessing
12.35.18 #       <MisticJeff> I do know that they are working on a mini-hdd type player
12.35.49 #       <MisticJeff> and they will be introducing a new 1.8" hdd player in 2005
12.36.03 #       <Zagor> ok, then it makes sense
12.36.21 #       <MisticJeff> Zagor: did you get my email?
12.37.43 #       <Zagor> still, look at the massive number of different flash players: http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=iFP-1090
12.38.16 #       <MisticJeff> oh yeah,  iriver holds the market on flash type players
12.39.30 #       <Zagor> looks like it. but that also makes me wonder why they would be worried about having three or four hd players, when they have 14(!) flash players
12.40.27 #       <Zagor> oh well, enough speculating. time will tell.
12.41.41 #       <Zagor> in any case, the coldfire port is useful even if all h1xx player go off the market tomorrow. coldfire is a common platform and the high-level porting preparations to rockbox have been valuable
12.41.47 #       <LinusN> too bad though, that the H1xx won't be for sale when rockbox is released for it :-(
12.41.58 #       <Zagor> we'll see
12.44.13 #       <Hadaka> hm
12.44.24 #       <Hadaka> is H3xx an entirely different platform then?
12.44.47 #       <Zagor> surprisingly short life span, if true. iriver announced the ihp-100 on april 17, 2003.
12.44.55 #       <Zagor> Hadaka: no, it uses the same coldfire base platform
12.45.39 #       <Hadaka> Zagor: good, thanks
12.46.29 #       <LinusN> it's not unlikely that they base future players on the coldfire as well, since they have invested quite a lot in the software
12.46.51 #       <Zagor> indeed
12.47.42 #       <Hadaka> well, as for the H140 vs. H340 price here, H140 is 450 euros and H340 is 530 euros - the difference isn't too great
12.50.38 #       <Zagor> sure, but it's a very competitive market and not everyone wants to pay a premium for a color screen
12.51.54 #       <Zagor> iriver simply doesn't feel like "one size fits all" company when you look at their flash range, so I didn't expect such an attitude in their hd range
12.52.23 #       <LinusN> if you can call it a "range" :-)
12.52.45 #       <Zagor> :)
12.55.32 #       <ashridah> zagor: given the size of their market, one wonders if they can actually afford to maintain the two series.
12.56.08 #       <ashridah> since if you're not making enough items in a run, you're going to be spending more per unit.
12.56.18 #       <Zagor> but they can afford 14 flash players?
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12.56.53 #       <ashridah> Zagor: didn't MisticJeff just say they're holding the market there?
12.57.12 #       <ashridah> they probably push enough units to justify keeping so many lines available
12.57.38 #       <ashridah> flash players are probably easier to manufacture and assemble too
12.57.59 #       <Zagor> i doubt it's that simple. but we will see.
12.58.22 #       <ashridah> but yeah, discontinuing the h1xx range now seems premature
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13.12.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> MisticJeff: How do I place a picture into my forum profile?
13.12.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, found it, never mind.
13.13.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: we have an Ondio user reporting that the (Samsung) tuner works
13.14.57 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Yup, already read that :)
13.20.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: I had no time for further (startup) tests
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13.49.28 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Yesterday I experimented with your startup_io code (after fixing some bugs first).
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13.50.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> aha, and?
13.50.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (funny video bug, btw)
13.51.23 #       <amiconn> Video should work correctly now, if you copy a fresh video file to the Ondio
13.51.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so I did, yes
13.51.48 #       <amiconn> The results with startup_io are really weird.
13.51.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (but haven't tested yet, it's rechargeing)
13.52.12 #       <amiconn> Huh? Recharging?
13.52.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> externally
13.52.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but I was thinking about a mod to charge from USB
13.53.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> well, a diode and a resistor
13.53.38 #       <amiconn> When the complete IO range is restored prior to RoLo, the archos fw works, independent of what IO values I restore (either those set by archos via Back-Boot, or those set by your bootloader)
13.54.20 #       <amiconn> When IO s not restored, the archos fw consistently hangs when you try to play something, then shuts down after 10 seconds
13.54.49 #       <amiconn> The contrast problem no longer exists (probably fixed by the bus controller init)
13.55.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so you say it depends on that *something* is restored, not what
13.55.43 #       <amiconn> I though I nailed the offending settings, but the I got that strange behaviour - but only *sometimes*
13.56.24 #       <amiconn> ...got it back, of course
13.57.55 #       <amiconn> The missing inits seem to be PAIOR=0x5FFF and TSTR=0xE0 (all timers disabled), but sometimes even that does not help...
13.58.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you hex-edited startup_io.bin offline for that, I guess?
13.58.38 #       <amiconn> You could try if you get the strange rolo behaviour too - remember, the archos fw does boot fine without the inits, but fails on playing
13.59.50 #       <amiconn> No, I limited the restore-range (the loop in rolo_io_restore() ), and commented out the long*/short* restores
14.00.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> some registers can only be used with certain width, you know
14.01.12 #       <amiconn> Yup. The limited ranges I tested had no such registers
14.06.44 #       <amiconn> The PAIOR was wild guessing, because archos boot does that
14.07.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, looks familiar
14.08.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> does the writing to certain registers possibly have a positive  side effect, like clearing interrupts?
14.09.46 #       <amiconn> Rockbox disables all interrupts before RoLo anyway (IPRA..IPRE are set to 0000)
14.11.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (wild guessing) or producing some edge, for resetting MAS
14.12.10 #       <amiconn> I wonder whether PA2 is connected to something else than the (nonexistant) tuner power control
14.12.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I doubt it
14.13.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> because the Archos s/w uses it to control the backlight
14.14.15 #       <amiconn> No, that's PA14 according to the wiki table (?)
14.14.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, tuner power, sorry
14.15.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> for the FM-less and Philips models, they could
14.15.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> have you found something in the disasm?
14.16.27 #       <amiconn> No, the disasm didn't help me with the inits at all. Perhps I should disassemble the ROM image...
14.16.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> btw, I should control that tuner line properly
14.17.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> must have been pure chance that the tuner was on
14.17.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and not gnerally undesired, for the power drain
14.17.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> generally not desired, I mean
14.18.17 #       <amiconn> Do you know whether the tuner line is connected for samsung? Because the wiki says it is prepared, but not connected (yours, philips)
14.18.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I guess they use it for Samsung
14.18.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the Philips has a deep sleep mode
14.20.48 #       <amiconn> The port pin is input by default with your bootloader. Perhaps it would be a good idea to do the same port inits there that the archos loader does?
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14.47.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: there is a difference between the "normal", cutomer-downloadable .ajz, and the flash content
14.47.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the one in the flash is larger, most likely it contains more inits
14.48.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so I'm not too worried about port inits in my bootloader
14.49.56 #       <amiconn> YES; I suspected that the flash version does more inits... that's why your loader should perhaps do them too... because one might rolo the archos fw via rockbox (or rockbox shoulddo it)
14.50.13 #       <amiconn> Sorry for Caps'ing...
14.51.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> my loader has nothing to do with Rockbox rolo feature
14.51.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and plenty of code rund inbetween
14.51.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so I see it as Rockbox' responsibility to prepare an environment where the .ajz can run
14.54.45 #       <amiconn> Sounds reasonable. However, remember that there is another problem related to inits - rockbox doesn't run stable from ROM on Ondio, at least for me
14.55.07 #       <amiconn> Anyway, I should have a look into the archos ROM disasm
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15.06.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: what's unstable from ROM?
15.18.09 #       <amiconn> I already reported that several times... Playback stops after some time (several minutes) and rockbox crashes. It does not always happen
15.19.01 #       <LinusN> could be a DRAM refresh or wait state problem
15.19.28 Nick    midk_ is now known as midk (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
15.20.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, that one
15.21.35 #       <amiconn> LinusN: I already checked those inits...
15.27.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN: are bitfields "polically correct"?
15.28.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the Philips tuner has a 5 byte packet, grr
15.28.05 #       <LinusN> well, they are architecture specific
15.28.15 #       <Zagor> compiler specific, even
15.28.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's for out low level code
15.28.44 #       <LinusN> i stay away from bitfields
15.28.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/out/our
15.28.58 #       <LinusN> you mean the philips driver?
15.29.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
15.29.18 #       <LinusN> that may have to compile for both sh1 and coldfire
15.29.37 #       <Zagor> [IDC]Dragon: the thing is bitfields are very loosely defined in the C spec. neither the storage order, size or padding is specified. each compiler may do as it wishes. so it's not good for hardware interfaces
15.29.37 #       <LinusN> so i wouldn't trust bitfields for that
15.29.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> both gdb, both big endian
15.29.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> gcc, I mean
15.30.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK
15.30.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what a pity that this 5 byte info doesn't fit into a 32 bit word
15.31.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it uses only 2 bits from the last byte
15.31.04 #       <LinusN> so it's not a matter of "political correctness", more portability
15.31.16 #       <LinusN> 2 bits...
15.31.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'm tempted to drop some insignificant ones from the middle
15.32.47 #       <LinusN> is it important to fit it into a 32-bit word?
15.33.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> would be way nicer to handle
15.33.05 #       <LinusN> i see
15.34.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it may be OK to hardcode the last byte
15.34.16 #       <amiconn> MMC has 6-byte packets... without the CRC, that we don't use, there are 5 significant bytes too...
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15.35.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> another reuse for my bit placement code, perhaps?
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15.35.24 #       <amiconn> s/packets/commands/
15.36.09 #       <amiconn> Nope. The bytes have clearly defined functions. 1st is the command, 2..5 contain the parameter (or zero)
15.36.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> for my tuner, I mean
15.37.22 #       <amiconn> Ah, yes. The tuner does use byte fractions for different purposes?
15.37.57 #       <LinusN> wouldn't the packing/unpacking be an unnecessary overhead?
15.38.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (byte fractions) not really, the PLL is 16 bit in 2 bytes
15.39.08 #       <LinusN> if you invent your own 32-bit word format, it gets harder for other people to work in the driver code, since it will differ from the data sheet
15.39.28 #       <LinusN> i'm tempted to yell "KISS"
15.39.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ok, as it looks, I will use a 5 byte array
15.40.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN: related subject: the tuner has tather 3 layers:
15.41.10 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: From a quick glance at the data sheet, it looks like no parameter crosses a byte boundary in an unusual way. So it should be possible to handle this with simple bit masking
15.41.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 1) physical interface, which differs per hookup
15.41.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 2) logical driver, which could be the same per tuner
15.41.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 3) application code, which is tuner-independent
15.42.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> currently, 2 3 are in the app file
15.43.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I think it's beneficial to seperate it
15.43.15 #       <LinusN> i'm all for the layering
15.43.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so you can recycle 2 for the iriver
15.43.29 #       <LinusN> yup
15.43.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> port 1
15.43.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and have 3 completely different, perhaps
15.44.11 #       <amiconn> (3) may still depend on tuner features
15.44.24 #       <LinusN> so we won't use the autotuning in the philips chip
15.44.30 #       <[IDC]Dragon> let's hope we find a common ground
15.45.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or 2) has to contain a thread for non-autotuning ones
15.46.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I need to switch between 2 tuners at runtime :-(
15.46.48 #       <LinusN> does the philips chip provide some feedback during the autotuning?
15.46.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so, I need a function pointer table or such
15.47.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you're free to read the status anytime, I'd say
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15.49.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> plenty of info to read: ready flag, band limit reached flag, PLL frequency, IF counter, stereo indication, level
15.51.43 #       <LinusN> is there an advantage to doing it ourselves?
15.51.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the searching?
15.52.04 #       <LinusN> yes, i mean the code is there for the samsung chip
15.52.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> dunno, maybe it's quicker
15.53.02 #       <LinusN> i'd go for the manual mode, makes the application code simpler, as the two tuners look more alike
15.53.20 #       <LinusN> set_frequency(), read_if_counter()
15.54.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I  understand
15.56.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> OK, so I'll split the radio.c code into app code and tuner code
15.56.44 #       <LinusN> you have my blessing
15.56.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I need a new CONFIG_TUNER setting
15.56.59 #       <LinusN> go ahead
15.57.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Samsung, Philips, or to be decided at runtime
15.57.16 #       <LinusN> do it
15.57.18 #       <LinusN> :-)
15.57.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ok, I'll shut up
15.57.42 #       <LinusN> you need runtime, as the mask bits decide
15.58.10 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: You could use bitmasks for CONFIG_TUNER...
15.58.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I was thinking of that
15.59.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN?
16.00.41 #       <LinusN> you need to be able to select the driver in runtime
16.00.57 #       <LinusN> so i think your idea with function pointers souns good
16.01.03 #       <LinusN> sounds
16.01.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, and the drivers need to know when to compile in
16.01.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or, the SOURCES file
16.01.49 #       <LinusN> sounds better
16.02.36 #       <LinusN> layer 2 could have an array of structs containing the function pointers
16.02.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so, we could have bitflags in CONFIG_TUNER, one bit per tuner
16.03.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ?
16.03.04 #       <LinusN> that array will be 1 item long in the fmrec and iriver case
16.03.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or a tiny "wrapper" that calls the actual function
16.04.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> anyway
16.04.06 #       <LinusN> struct fmradio *fm = init_fmradio(PHILIPS_CHIP);
16.04.13 #       <LinusN> or something like that
16.04.27 #       <LinusN> then fm->set_frequencey() etc
16.05.07 #       <LinusN> the wrapper adds the chip check overhead to each call
16.05.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you still didn't say if bit flags in CONFIG_TUNER sound like a good idea
16.05.45 #       <LinusN> i don't know which problem it would solve
16.06.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> having one #define to setup the compile time modules
16.07.09 #       <LinusN> i think HAVE_SAMSUNG... and HAVE_PHILIPS... combined with the SOURCE file would do the job nicely
16.07.33 #       <LinusN> i have to go now
16.07.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> in a addition to a general HAVE_TUNER?
16.07.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> looks clumsy
16.08.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'll do something nice, trust me ;-)
16.08.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> c u
16.08.22 #       <LinusN> do whatever you fell is the simplest
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16.14.36 #       <Zagor> archos gmini xs200 released. it's really tiny.
16.14.43 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Is there a way to figure out what chip would fit into the "backlight provision" space on Ondio?
16.18.48 #       <dwihno> whoa
16.18.49 #       <dwihno> it's tiny
16.20.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: Sipex SP4403
16.21.43 #       <amiconn> So we could actually mod the Ondio to have a backlight... btw: How do you know?
16.22.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Googling for Sipex EL backlight
16.23.37 #       <amiconn> Ah. The Sipex was guessed?
16.23.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
16.24.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> since it's their favourite company for power
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16.25.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I have to find a suitable EL foil
16.30.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> maybe the mobile phone modding scene has something
16.31.15 #       <dwihno> Lucretia Noin!
16.33.09 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Is it possible to cut EL foils into suitable pieces?
16.33.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, that's quite common
16.33.42 #       <amiconn> Segor offers a blue EL foil, 3x25 cm for € 14,80
16.33.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but the ones I've seen are way bigger, with bulky electrodes
16.34.33 #       <amiconn> They also offer EL "Wires", which are sold per cm...
16.34.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> plus, you can't "share" it, have to use the end with the electrodes
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16.47.41 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Conrad has some smaller EL foils, only 0.5 mm thick
16.48.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what size? small electrodes?
16.50.51 #       <amiconn> The smaller variant is 138x34 mm. Unfortunately direct linking doesn't work for the Conrad site, search for "Leuchtfolie"
16.51.59 #       <Zagor> gotta go. bye.
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16.53.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I hate their site
16.54.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> looks like rather thick wires
16.54.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but is cheaper
16.56.25 #       <amiconn> The wires need some isolation... it's a rather high voltage
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17.00.02 #       * [IDC]Dragon shudders thinking about how 120V 400 Hz AC may interfere to the microphone
17.01.33 #       <amiconn> The sipex datasheet talks about 40..64 kHz
17.02.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> "sounds" better
17.02.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we may need a suitable foil for ultrasonic
17.02.46 #       <amiconn> Next question is where to get that sipex chip
17.03.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> first I'd like to check the pins, if this really matches
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17.10.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> video looks really bad without backlight, or why the sudden interest?
17.15.23 #       <amiconn> Video doesn't look too bad without backlight if the ambient light is coming from the right direction. But then there is that empty space on the PCB... and blue (or white) backlight would look cool
17.16.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> be glad you don't own an FM Recorder, that has an empty space for a RDS decoder
17.16.29 #       <amiconn> Perhaps I could also get that philips tuner chip, together with the associated passive stuff
17.16.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I can send you a MAS
17.17.37 #       <amiconn> Then I would have to get that mic, and the line in socket....
17.17.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but for less effort, you'd better buy an FM
17.18.01 #       <amiconn> ;)  Still without backlight...
17.18.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> true
17.18.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so let's focus on the backlight, which money can't buy
17.18.50 #       <amiconn> I wonder if there are backlight-enabled Ondios on the market at all. Perhaps only engineering samples had it...
17.19.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> photo models
17.20.08 #       <amiconn> I found the sipex datasheet
17.20.32 #       <amiconn> http://www.mcu-memory.com/datasheet/sipex/SP4403.pdf
17.20.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> google found it for me, yes
17.22.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I thought you had it already, you mentioned the frequency
17.26.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: how about this: http://www.myplace.nu/mp3/backlight.htm
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17.47.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the world is small, it can be bought in a swedish webshop
17.47.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how much is 111,25 Kr. ?
17.49.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 12,23 EUR, found it
17.50.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: did Linus already ship the converter? Else he may order the backlight and add that.
17.53.59 Join    webguest72 [0] (~d96ee3e8@labb.contactor.se)
17.59.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the electrode position of that foil matches the Ondio layout *very* well...
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18.03.06 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Linus told me that he already shipped the converter
18.05.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> doesn't that foil look very promising?
18.06.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> http://www.myplace.nu/mp3/images/backlight_kitl.jpg
18.09.06 #       <amiconn> Yes indeed.
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18.24.56 #       <_aLF> hi
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18.30.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'm out of here
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21.57.23 #       <amiconn> Bagder: r u there?
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22.42.17 Join    webguest55 [0] (~40ded38a@labb.contactor.se)
22.42.26 #       <webguest55> hello
22.42.51 #       <webguest55> anyone here
22.43.19 #       <uski> yea
22.43.56 #       <webguest55> could you help me install the software in a jukebox 6000
22.44.03 #       <uski> sure
22.44.23 #       <webguest55> i never had a problem when i did my 15 but i cant get the 6000
22.44.23 #       <webguest55> thanks
22.44.23 #       <uski> first, connect your jukebox 6000 to your computer
22.44.23 #       <uski> tell me when it is connected
22.44.23 #       <webguest55> ok
22.44.23 DBUG    Enqueued KICK webguest55
22.44.23 #       <webguest55> i downloaded the software to the 6000
22.44.37 #       <webguest55> its connected
22.45.15 #       <webguest55> connected
22.45.17 #       <uski> you need to get the rockbox version for jb6000
22.45.24 #       <webguest55> got it
22.45.28 #       <uski> http://www.rockbox.org/download/rockbox-2.2-player.zip
22.45.36 #       <uski> download this to your archox root foler
22.45.38 #       <uski> folder
22.45.42 #       <uski> and then, unzip it to the root folder
22.45.44 #       <webguest55> ok
22.45.49 #       <webguest55> how do i get it to the root folder
22.46.15 #       <uski> do you have a tool for unzipping ?
22.46.19 #       <webguest55> yes
22.46.26 #       <uski> what tool is it ?
22.46.48 #       <webguest55> not sure hmmm
22.46.57 #       <uski> WinZip (tm) maybe ?
22.47.05 #       <webguest55> im using mozilla
22.47.06 #       <uski> or perhaps WinRar ? PowerArchiver ? ... ?
22.47.10 #       <uski> ok
22.47.21 #       <uski> i don't think mozilla can decompress files from a .zip file
22.47.25 #       <webguest55> that ok?
22.47.34 #       <uski> .zip files are files that contains other files
22.47.34 #       <webguest55> let me open a IE window
22.47.35 #       <webguest55> ahhh ok
22.47.39 #       <uski> so, mozilla allows you to download the .zip file
22.48.01 #       <uski> but not to extract the files that are inside the .zip file :)
22.48.01 #       <uski> see what i mean ?
22.48.01 #       <webguest55> yea
22.48.02 #       <webguest55> yes
22.48.08 #       <uski> so, you need some tool to decompress the .zip file
22.48.27 #       <uski> what is the version of windows that you are using ?
22.48.43 #       <webguest55> downloading winzip
22.48.45 #       <webguest55> winme
22.48.49 #       <uski> ok ;)
22.48.55 #       <uski> then you need some other software (winzip is fine)
22.50.20 #       <webguest55> i need to extract correct?
22.50.25 #       <uski> yes
22.50.48 #       <uski> you need to extract all the files and directories that are inside the .zip file, to the root folder of your archos
22.51.00 #       <uski> i.e. if the drive letter of your archox is X, extract it to X:\
22.51.06 #       <webguest55> ok
22.51.12 #       <webguest55> now how do i do it to the root folder
22.51.16 #       <webguest55> ok
22.51.27 #       <uski> the root folder is X:\ :)
22.51.52 #       <uski> if you have a directory name after the \ then it's not the root folder anymore: it's a subfolder of the root folder
22.52.06 #       <webguest55> ok im lost
22.52.11 #       <uski> doh :)
22.52.13 #       <webguest55> how do i extract to the root folder
22.52.18 #       <webguest55> the drives name is f
22.52.27 #       <uski> then tell winzip to extract to F:\
22.52.29 #       <webguest55> do i extract all files into F
22.52.32 #       <webguest55> k
22.52.36 #       <webguest55> done
22.52.38 #       <webguest55> now what
22.52.38 #       <uski> ok
22.52.58 #       <webguest55> i should see all the files when i open the f drive correct?
22.53.00 #       <uski> tell me what are the files you have on the root folder
22.53.02 #       <uski> yea
22.53.11 #       <uski> there must be some "archos.rec" file if i remember correctly
22.53.38 #       <webguest55> archos.mod
22.53.39 #       <webguest55> ?
22.53.41 #       <uski> yea
22.53.53 #       <webguest55> ok
22.54.01 #       <uski> now, close this window, and disconnect your archos from the computer as you would do after transferring files to it
22.54.07 #       <uski> then, you can turn off the archos, and then turn it on
22.54.12 #       <webguest55> ok
22.54.15 #       <webguest55> then what
22.54.15 #       <uski> it should then boot into Rockbox :)
22.54.21 #       <uski> then you're done :D
22.54.29 #       <uski> try now, so I can help you if something is wrong
22.54.31 #       <webguest55> do i need to run that archos.mod file?
22.54.34 #       <uski> nope
22.54.37 #       <webguest55> ok
22.54.38 #       <uski> it is run automatically by the archos
22.54.39 #       <webguest55> brb k?
22.54.46 #       <uski> sure, but don't last too long
22.54.50 #       <uski> i can't stay for a lot of time
22.54.57 #       <webguest55> tryin now
22.54.59 #       <uski> but you have some minutes ;)
22.55.01 #       <uski> ok
22.56.59 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22.57.26 #       <webguest55> i think its working
22.59.06 #       <webguest55> does it play winamp files?
22.59.38 #       <uski> what do you mean ?
22.59.47 #       <uski> what are you calling "winamp files" ?
22.59.50 #       <uski> playlists ?
22.59.56 #       <webguest55> yea
23.02.20 #       <webguest55> i cant get a song to appear
23.02.39 #       <webguest55> i dragged and dropped a song on it but it wont show up
23.06.01 #       <uski> hmmm
23.06.06 #       <uski> what is the format of the song ?
23.06.10 #       <uski> it must be .mp3
23.06.14 #       <uski> if it is .wma it will not work
23.06.15 #       <webguest55> winamp
23.06.22 #       <uski> winamp is a player
23.06.25 #       <uski> hmm
23.06.32 #       <uski> click on the file with the right button
23.06.35 #       <uski> then Properties
23.06.47 #       <uski> somewhere you should see something like .wma, .mp3, and so on
23.06.48 #       <webguest55> no
23.06.54 #       <uski> hmm ok
23.06.58 #       <webguest55> no song info shows up
23.07.04 #       <uski> then the file must be a .wma or another unsupported format
23.07.13 #       <webguest55> whats a supported one
23.07.13 #       <uski> try with another song
23.07.16 #       <webguest55> what software
23.07.17 #       <uski> .mp3
23.07.23 #       <webguest55> what software
23.07.27 #       <uski> winamp is a music player
23.07.31 #       <webguest55> ok
23.07.32 #       <uski> it can play alot of file formats
23.07.34 #       <uski> including mp3
23.07.38 #       <uski> but also a lot of others
23.07.40 #       <webguest55> so how do i change the file format
23.07.48 #       <uski> you need to convert the file
23.07.53 #       <webguest55> ok
23.07.54 #       <uski> i am not sure of the way to do it
23.07.57 #       <webguest55> with what software
23.08.02 #       <uski> i don't know :\
23.08.25 #       <webguest55> ok
23.08.29 #       <webguest55> thanks though!
23.08.53 #       <uski> nope ;)
23.09.01 #       <uski> my paypal id is XXX@hotmail.com
23.09.05 #       <uski> you now owe me $500
23.09.09 #       <webguest55> lol
23.09.15 #       <uski> lol
23.25.55 #       <MoGl53> just so you know - ill be posting that broken iriver to you this weekend
23.26.22 Join    haruki [0] (1000@c-67-181-191-26.client.comcast.net)
23.29.08 #       <haruki> hello, how does one do a timed recording with rockbox, is this possible with setting time split as well as setting a sleep timer?
23.30.22 #       <amiconn> haruki: There is no timed recording feature in rockbox yet
23.31.29 Quit    mecraw__ (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
23.31.42 Join    mecraw__ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2)
23.32.58 #       <haruki> thanks amiconn! but would a five hour recording be possible by setting time split to five hours, and then setting a sleep timer for five and a half hours?
23.35.59 #       <amiconn> Time split would start a new file after 5 hours in this case. I don't know whether the sleep timer would switch off the box while in recording mode. I never used the sleep timer, and rarely use recording either. You could try it, with shorter times of course
23.37.00 Quit    haruki (Remote closed the connection)
23.37.48 Join    haruki [0] (1000@c-67-181-191-26.client.comcast.net)
23.38.23 #       <amiconn> Just started a test myself, as I'm curious...
23.38.57 Quit    webguest55 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23.39.00 #       <haruki> sorry mozilla crashed :/
23.39.18 #       <haruki> did i miss anything?
23.39.25 #       <amiconn> Nope.
23.39.34 #       <haruki> ok cool, thanks :)
23.39.56 #       <haruki> i'm going to test it too 
23.39.57 #       <amiconn> You'd have to wait ~15 minutes for my test result (shortest possible sleep timer setting)
23.40.41 #       <haruki> i know, i was just realizing the same thing :)
23.41.53 #       <haruki> do you know if there is any interest in a timed record setting? i was searching the rockbox list archives and didn't see anything (so far)
23.43.57 #       <amiconn> Afaik there is someone who already implemented timed recording locally, but he says it is not ready for release yet.
23.45.37 #       <amiconn> It was mentioned once or twice on irc iirc.
23.50.03 #       <amiconn> Ah, finally found the init problem that caused the instability with cold-started rockbox on Ondio :-)
23.53.04 #       <amiconn> Timed recording kludge works - box has switched off itself
23.54.40 #       <amiconn> As the second recorded file is also there, you can do this even without timesplit. It seems that the recording is properly stopped before the sleep timer switches off the box
23.57.28 #       <haruki> ok cool! booting my recorder now, to see my result (hopefully the same as yours!)
23.58.38 #       <haruki> my ten minute recording is only nine minutes, did you have this too? perhaps i need to run vbrfix
23.58.47 Quit    uski (Read error: 113 (No route to host))