--- Log for 22.10.104 Server: burroughs.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 17 days and 23 hours ago 00.00.17 # Zagor: Speaking about internal & external support - this was already discussed some days ago. However, I still wonder how to do it. I agree with Linus that it has to be done in the file system layer. 00.00.45 # However, this requires an additional parameter to most functions in the lower layers (fat driver and ata_mmc) 00.01.08 # I wonder how to hide this for builds without multi-volume support... 00.01.24 # yes, it will be a big change 00.01.39 Join Lurkski [0] (~Miranda@24.30.163.142) 00.01.49 # Zagor: #ifdef each and every function? 00.02.06 # doesn't sound very nice :) 00.02.38 # i don't know, I need to think about it some more. do you have a suggestion? 00.02.58 # Otherwise many functions will have a dummy parameter for single-volume builds... 00.03.36 Quit Sebulba02 ("Bite me.") 00.03.36 # ...I have no idea yet how to solve this. 00.03.40 # yes, but dual-defining entire interfaces is not very elegant either 00.03.46 # yup 00.05.02 # Has anyone seen the Gmini XS500? 00.05.20 # there's a 500 too? 00.05.46 # its just a player, not a recorder 00.05.54 # do you mean the xs200? 00.06.00 # sorry XS200 00.06.02 # yea 00.06.07 # its just a player not a recorder 00.06.17 # yes. but very nice size. 00.06.47 Join webguest94 [0] (~c7e73280@labb.contactor.se) 00.06.50 # i don't like the look of it 00.06.53 # iriver looks nicer 00.06.58 # Zagor: An additional function to pre-select the volume/device is not an option either, because this would make accesses non-atomic 00.06.59 # and that green backlight looks horrid 00.08.12 # yeah, it may be ugly but it's hard to argue about the size. 120g! that's almost as light as my mobile phone. 00.08.19 # amiconn: yes 00.09.29 # The Ondio is about the weight of my mobile phone (60 g). That Gmini is still twice the weight... 00.10.11 # of course, but it's got 20x the capacity 00.11.48 # Agreed. 00.12.47 # the iriver is light 00.16.05 # Bagder: r u there? 00.17.19 # hey 00.22.50 Quit ScrpWork ("Scorpius MultiServer Script v0.1 for mIRC 6") 00.28.07 # hi all 00.28.27 # is triggered recording "almost ready" yet? 00.29.50 # isn't it always? ;) 00.31.11 # :) 00.31.36 # It seems very useful, and I'm wondering what it lacks to be included. 00.31.54 # i'm not sure, i haven't looked at it lately 00.33.42 # I have another question: when recording at low qual and bitrates, is it doable to have the audio I hear be actual recorded quality? 00.34.12 # Or is that impossible? 00.34.54 Join [av]bani [0] (~goemon@washuu.anime.net) 00.34.58 Part [av]bani 00.34.59 # it's not possible on the archos, i'm afraid 00.35.12 # I've been recording NPR news radio shows in mono 16khz. 00.35.53 Join edx [0] (edx@p54879355.dip.t-dialin.net) 00.37.51 # I guess the hardware can't encode one chan and decode the other, or interleave? 00.38.02 # no, only one thing at a time 00.38.31 # Oh well, I guess hardly anyone would do that (except me) anyway :) 00.39.38 # How about doinq tone control type stuff on encode? (speech uses mostly mid freqs) 00.40.48 # that gray_drawGrayMap function is brilliant! Just what I was looking for. thanks again! 00.40.57 # sorry, no. there are very few paramters to adjust for recording 00.41.11 # miner49er: can I ask what you're working on? 00.41.53 # well, i'm sure you guys wiould be able to knock up a pure assembly version very quickly but I'm trying to do a simple plasma effect. 00.42.08 # ...and it's taking ages! lol :-) 00.42.34 # :) 00.43.18 # really annoying my girlfriend too! 00.45.18 # pleased i found my Y-cable 00.45.41 # Bah, the last plugins in the list are the hardest! 00.49.08 Join AC [0] (~5078751e@labb.contactor.se) 00.49.35 # helo 00.49.48 # hi AC 00.50.12 Join Sebulba02 [0] (~Sebulba02@Darth-Sebulba04.active.supporter.pdpc) 00.51.40 # i'm off to bed. see you later. 00.51.43 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") 00.54.57 Quit iRiverMan ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 00.59.50 Quit AC ("CGI:IRC") 01.00.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.05.29 Quit AciD ("all your base are belong to us") 01.05.29 Join bizaff [0] (~chatzilla@64.21.244.215) 01.13.53 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-2-6-73.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 01.14.56 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-120-254.VIC.netspace.net.au) 01.19.16 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 01.28.25 Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01.29.10 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (~munkee@abyss2.demon.co.uk) 01.40.20 Quit miner49er ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040514]") 01.51.39 Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) 02.05.42 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 02.06.22 Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.06.46 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (~munkee@abyss2.demon.co.uk) 02.07.03 Join Naked [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi) 02.07.12 Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (naked@naked.iki.fi) 02.07.43 Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.07.54 Join midk_ [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) 02.12.26 Join Dujodu [0] (APDesign@CPE-24-167-199-72.wi.rr.com) 02.18.32 Part Dujodu 02.22.08 Quit ze (burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02.22.08 NSplit burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 02.22.54 Part amiconn 02.23.44 NHeal burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 02.23.44 NJoin ze [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-44-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 02.24.26 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 02.24.27 Quit scott666 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.24.32 Part scott666_ 02.33.22 Join Bluechip [0] (~BlueChip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 02.34.53 # evenin 02.43.36 Quit _aLF (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.53.21 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.56.41 --> "a" received from Hysteria- (drones@bb220-255-72-218.singnet.com.sg) 02.56.58 Join Hysteria- [0] (drones@bb220-255-72-218.singnet.com.sg) 02.59.00 Quit Hysteria- (Client Quit) 03.00.45 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.14.26 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 03.14.34 Part scott666 03.40.19 Part Bluechip 04.11.02 Quit webguest94 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 04.34.59 Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EAA717.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.00.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.03.54 Part bizaff 05.29.46 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 05.29.52 Part scott666_ 07.00.52 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.03.07 Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.03.25 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (~munkee@abyss2.demon.co.uk) 07.36.18 Part Lurkski 08.03.56 Quit ashridah (Nick collision from services.) 08.40.38 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 09.00.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.02.37 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 09.04.36 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 09.11.01 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50876655.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 09.11.04 Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 09.19.56 # is triggered recording "almost ready" yet? 09.19.57 # isn't it always? ;) 09.19.57 # grrrr 09.21.13 Join bizaff [0] (~chatzilla@64.21.244.215) 09.21.17 # seriously, what is the status of that? I don't know. 09.21.35 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.21.42 # are you just waiting for someone to commit it? 09.22.18 # I'd like to have it code polieced first. But I consider it as commitalbe. 09.22.33 # ok 09.23.24 # I used the triggered recording since january - but of course since the last update of the patch I haven't done much excessive testing yet. 09.25.14 # "Media Transfer Protocol" oh gee 09.26.08 # haha 09.26.10 # Is that the name for transactions with your id3-db? 09.26.32 # "Microsoft has developed the Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) to manage content on any portable device with storage. It is based upon an existing protocol, Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP), and can be implemented to be fully compatible with that protocol." 09.27.06 # Probably full or drms. 09.27.18 # yes, and made for non usb-storage usb 09.27.30 # the spec is available as... a windows exe 09.27.37 # lol 09.27.39 # i'll reject it 09.27.45 # yes 09.28.02 # Do you want me to formulate a feature request so that you can reject it officially? 09.28.10 # "The primary purpose of MTP is to facilitate communication between devices that connect to a computer or other host, exchange data, and then disconnect for standalone use." 09.28.19 # kurzhaarrocker: there is one already 09.28.25 # that's how I noticed 09.28.28 # ok :) 09.30.11 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se) 09.30.41 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.31.23 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 09.32.05 # <[IDC]Dragon> 'morning folks! 09.32.32 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 09.32.32 # * kurzhaarrocker waves 09.33.01 # * [IDC]Dragon gives a high five 09.34.04 # <[IDC]Dragon> where is dear LinusN these days? 09.34.16 # Btw: is there alreay code to find frame boundaries in bitswapped mp3 data? 09.34.43 # [IDC]Dragon: at home taking care of one of his kids who is sick 09.34.47 # <[IDC]Dragon> kurzhaarrocker: yes, in the talk code 09.34.54 Quit bizaff ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.2/20040803]") 09.34.57 # <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: oh 09.35.06 # Oh, Linus passed on his sickness. to bad. 09.35.42 # <[IDC]Dragon> now his kids dismantle mp3 players, too? ;-) 09.35.47 # * [IDC]Dragon ducks 09.35.55 # hehe 09.35.59 # given heavy enough tools, I expect they will :) 09.36.06 # that's a bad illness 10.02.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> speaking of absent people, is Christie still around? 10.02.57 # * [IDC]Dragon was thinking about a 2.3 manual 10.03.10 # she hasn't responded my the freeze mail, where I asked if she wanted to update the manual 10.03.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> "freeze mail"? 10.04.42 # 2.3 feature freeze 10.06.16 # <[IDC]Dragon> ah 10.09.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> I hope she is well 10.09.52 # btw: I recently had an "interesting" battery experience 10.10.29 # First the jukebox stopped playback. Whe I took it out of the pocket I noticed it was hot at one edge. 10.10.46 # I immediately removed the batteries. One of which was hot. 10.11.29 # It became even hotter for the next 20 minutes and the green plastic coating tore due to the heat. 10.11.47 # Fortunately the recorder wasn't damaged. 10.12.06 # yikes. spontaneous battery meltdown. 10.12.07 # I assume that some strange short circuit occurred _inside_ the battery 10.12.52 # <[IDC]Dragon> like the LiIons in Apples' early Powerbooks 10.13.05 # <[IDC]Dragon> bursting in flames 10.13.46 # This was one of the original green NiMh cells that came with the recorder, no LiIon. 10.14.01 # (Maybe that prevented flames) :) 10.16.10 # <[IDC]Dragon> is the cell dead now? 10.16.36 # I measured 0.0 Volts and didn't bother to try to recharge it. 10.18.54 # <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I woudn't neither 10.19.15 # <[IDC]Dragon> best excuse to get a set of 2300 mAh cells 10.19.59 # :) Best bang/buck momentarily seem to be the 1800 mAh cells. 4pcs for 8 EUR. 10.20.25 # is it bad when a court judge describes you like this: "In fact, however, Merkey is not just prone to exaggeration, he also is and can be deceptive, not only to his adversaries, but also to his own partners, his business associates and to the court. He deliberately describes his own, separate reality."? :-) 10.21.27 # Are you winning a trial? :) 10.22.09 # no, just reading groklaw 10.24.53 # <[IDC]Dragon> kurzhaarrocker: at Reichelt, 4*2500 are 10.45, 4*2400 are 9.95 10.25.31 # <[IDC]Dragon> 1800 are hard to get 10.25.43 # Thanx. Good hint. I might like to order something at Reichelt anyway. 10.26.17 # Saturn has loads of 1800 mAh 10.35.52 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7DDD7.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.36.16 # Hi amiconn. Seems I gave you a hard time with the split editor? :) 10.36.28 # hi 10.36.48 # Yes, although "star" was even harder... 10.39.06 # Do you experience an audiable gap when looping with the split editor? 10.39.42 # The button were no big problem (leaving out the speed variation). 10.39.59 # yes, that's what I'd have left out too. 10.42.08 # I just wondered because of those timing thingies you added 10.45.02 # The timing problem: MMC is slow, and takes several seconds to reload a track. mpeg_ff_rewind() reloads if either the requested range is outside the loaded area (sic) or if it is still busy reloading if a new ff_rewind request is issued. 10.46.02 # ok, thx 10.46.14 # The latter situation arises if you start the split editor shortly after starting the track. Without the added wait, it would reload every time the spliteditor skips back, because reloading takes longer than the loop time. 10.47.00 # So I added the wait check. It will wait 10 seconds at the first loop if a reload is required, to allow the reload to complete 10.47.15 # There are no additional waits for subsequent loops 10.48.21 # I think the same problem occurres within the "normal" recorder, too. 10.50.32 # There is another problem related to this reload on Ondio. Since the spliteditor does not yield very often, the reload-and-swap is slower than the playback, causing the playback to go silent after ~1 sec without the reload wait 10.51.30 # hrgh 10.51.53 # Well the entire plugin needs a rewrite so that it utilizes the mp3 api. 10.52.36 # I tried with button_get_w_tmo(HZ/20) instead of button_get(false) / yield(). While this also fixed the swap starving, the osci display became rather imprecise when I did that. 10.55.46 # Lots of gaps I assume? 10.55.54 # yup 10.56.26 # The reload check is rather crude: if after 1/20 sec the pointer is still out of range, the code assumes that a reload is in progress. mpeg_status() doesn't tell you... 10.59.28 # * kurzhaarrocker closes his eyes, puts his fingers into his ears and sings "lalala" loudly so that he needn't hear all the problems he knows to be buried in that lousy looping code. 11.00.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.09.55 # <[IDC]Dragon> Hi Jens! 11.10.13 # <[IDC]Dragon> (just turned my eyes back to this window) 11.19.55 # hi 11.20.44 # I saw that you implemeted the "voice clip present" caching 11.21.27 # <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I found the feature crappy otherwise 11.23.00 # There are only 2 plugins left... but one of them is a very hard one - wormlet 11.23.40 # lol 11.23.49 # <[IDC]Dragon> nobody would mind if we don't have all in the first shot 11.24.48 # <[IDC]Dragon> I'm not mentioning core features like the keyboard, dumdidum 11.25.18 # <[IDC]Dragon> I'm an unreliable resource, but can try my best to help 11.25.59 # amiconn: why not disable all the multi-player crap. Then the reduced amount of buttons shouldn't be problematic. 11.26.18 # * kurzhaarrocker doubts that anybody anywhen actually tried to play wormlet using a remote 11.26.37 # * [IDC]Dragon feels guilty because of not being able to work so hard on Odio as amiconn 11.27.11 # Wormlet needs at least the default event handler stuff. The problem is not the amount of buttons (multiplayer doesn't make sense on Ondio), but that the button handling is scattered all over the code 11.27.12 # * kurzhaarrocker feels guilty because he still hasn't implemented user assignable key schemes :) 11.31.06 # <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: should I try to start with the keyboard? (probably no real work before sunday) 11.31.41 # <[IDC]Dragon> any other Ondio issues left? 11.33.08 # The debug info ("View HW info" and "view IO ports") needs a bit of polishing - taking out the ata stuff 11.33.30 # <[IDC]Dragon> nah, peanuts 11.34.40 # * [IDC]Dragon looks for amiconn's "keyboard specification" 11.35.41 # I got another report from an Ondio user (via private eMail). He has original Ondio 128, which is indeed identical to the FMR. Mask 0x0708, i.e. Samsung tuner. 11.36.27 # <[IDC]Dragon> working? 11.37.54 # <[IDC]Dragon> so plain "Ondio 128" without SP/FM suffix is like what we call FM, we should clarify that on the build page 11.38.46 # <[IDC]Dragon> the Philips tuner is a lot better in terms of reception 11.39.02 # Yes it is, and it is working, although he couldn't figure out how to pause/stop. Having that on "Off" *is* a bit unintuitive... 11.39.39 # He already knew rockbox, because he has a V2 as well 11.39.47 # <[IDC]Dragon> tell me a free button... 11.40.00 # belly button 11.40.19 # <[IDC]Dragon> :) that's for girls only 11.40.29 # :) 11.42.47 # I wonder if it would be better to put the wps<->browser toggle on "off" and do pause/stop the same way as the archos fw (first press pauses, second stops) 11.45.01 # <[IDC]Dragon> for now, I tried to get away by just reassigning buttons, not changing the states machines (or whatever) of the code 11.45.53 # <[IDC]Dragon> the resulting UI is not good for the Ondio, no doubt about that 11.46.17 # <[IDC]Dragon> as it is, the Archos software is more useable 11.47.45 # I did not say we have to do this for the upcoming release... 11.49.35 # <[IDC]Dragon> phew, OK. ;-) 11.53.15 # Just found another report of a "plain" Ondio 128 in the forum... 12.01.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> note to self: update the flash plugin to accept 1.04 ondios 12.02.07 # <[IDC]Dragon> lunch time! 12.30.23 # why are you so focused on stopping? 12.31.01 # adding a state machine makes that part of the ui ondio-specific 12.45.00 # otoh I can understand swapping the pause and toggle buttons, since at least I use pause much more than toggle 12.51.39 # if would also end up quite well having toggle on off and stop on off+repeat. 12.59.16 # <[IDC]Dragon> back again 13.00.35 # <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: perhaps 13.00.57 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 13.00.58 # <[IDC]Dragon> (you're a bit hard to read today, or is it just me?) 13.01.24 # maybe i've had too little coffee? 13.01.46 # <[IDC]Dragon> go for it, then! 13.01.52 # :) 13.05.47 # or was it "otoh" (on the other hand) that was confusing? 13.06.12 # <[IDC]Dragon> ah, that's what it means 13.06.42 # <[IDC]Dragon> I thought it's perhaps a crippled "although" 13.07.29 # I should stop using unnecessary acronyms 13.07.53 # <[IDC]Dragon> no, I just have to learn 13.08.12 # <[IDC]Dragon> what does "sic" mean? 13.10.25 # it's latin and means roughly "so it says". you use it to point out that what you wrote was not a mistake, but what you actually meant. often used for example after misspellings in quotes 13.12.06 # (it's not an acronym) 13.12.45 # <[IDC]Dragon> yea, with your pointers I found it. I had too many years of latin at school to remember... 13.13.05 # :) 13.33.48 # Zagor: Having pause and stop on different buttons would imho be even more confusing than it is now. Also, stop on Off+Repeat is a bit uncomfortable, since holding it too long switches the unit off. 13.37.11 # pause and stop is always on different buttons 13.38.38 # It isn't on the Ondio... 13.39.03 # it isn't on the archos ondio firmware. but that's not really relevant, is it? we are not making a better archos firmware. 13.40.36 # It isn't in rockbox either. Currently, pause is Off, stop is Off+repeat 13.42.18 # true. but I just said I agree with you that it's a good idea to put pause on the closer MENU button instead, because it's more frequently used 13.43.16 # there is no inherent advantage in grouping separate functions to a single button. it should be decided on the basis of ergonomics and comfort 13.43.17 # You mean, because you use pause more frequently. I almost never use pause... 13.43.37 # ok. do you browse more than pause? 13.44.12 # i'm fine with keeping it as is. i'm just not fine with adding ondio-specific state code just to emulate the archos firmware. 13.48.10 # The biggest problem is that there are too few buttons. In the wps, there are 12 functions, but only 6 buttons. 13.48.44 # We have 3 options: (1) Distinguish short/ long press, including Off button 13.48.45 # which functions are we lacking in the wps currently? 13.48.59 # This is what we do now 13.49.09 # (2) Use button combos 13.49.22 # (3) Add state code 13.49.37 # we do 1) and 2) today already. i don't like adding a third model. 13.49.52 # We have all functions available in wps, with model (1) 13.59.38 Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@175-248-30-217.kgts.ru) 14.00.58 Join BlueBandicoot [0] (~52221267@labb.contactor.se) 14.02.49 Quit BlueBandicoot (Client Quit) 14.10.01 Quit R3nTiL () 14.10.40 # (model 1) However, this requires the long "Off" press. Using combos would be even more unintuitive imho. Adding state code would solve that problem... 14.10.50 Join Lynx_ [0] (lynx@134.95.189.59) 14.11.14 # I don't see the problem with the long off press 14.11.29 # you said there are several seconds until it shuts down 14.11.34 Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) 14.13.11 # <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: in general, we should be able to adjust the UI better to the target. A plain 1:1 mapping gives us something working atm, but no snug fit to whichever model 14.13.48 # Zagor: Yes there are. It still feels uncomfortable... 14.13.51 # I disagree that adding a whole new UI concept is "a snug fit" 14.14.14 # <[IDC]Dragon> with the Iriver, Rockbox as is would be "boring", on such a big screen, or whatever different capabilities 14.14.27 # [IDC]Dragon: absolutely 14.14.57 # but we are not targeting the winamp skinning crowd anyway 14.15.04 # <[IDC]Dragon> so there is a future challenge to decouple features and UI 14.15.33 # the solution isn't to write all new code for each target 14.15.42 # State code is not an all-new concept, even for rockbox. 14.15.53 # <[IDC]Dragon> no, and that's not what I meant 14.17.42 # <[IDC]Dragon> we're in danger to go to #ifdef hell, if we fail to seperate the UI 14.17.47 # amiconn: should we move stop away from the off button on regular recorders too? the margin is much more narrow there. 14.18.03 # Why is "statemachine" such a bad word? What's the problem with state machines? 14.18.33 # kurzhaarrocker: nothing, but the rockbox UI does not use that concept. I see no reason to depart from the rockbox ui design concept. 14.19.04 Join logan02 [0] (~4128de2c@labb.contactor.se) 14.19.51 # [IDC]Dragon: "separating the ui" in practice means forking the code for each platform, or making the code huge, abstract and very complex. 14.20.21 # Zagor: It is not a problem on the recorder, since it is a short press only 14.20.24 # the only thing the iriver has is another screen. it does not require a whole different UI 14.21.11 # <[IDC]Dragon> I'll remind you when the crowd asks for icons, etc. 14.21.27 # when did I listen to "the crowd"? 14.21.34 # <[IDC]Dragon> ;-) 14.21.43 # and why would icons separate the UI? 14.21.52 # we can have icons on archos too 14.22.11 # I can see the use for larger icons than we have today, and colour. but that's pretty much it. 14.22.15 # There already was an impressive proof of concept implementation by someone. 14.22.30 # * Bagder recalls some nice screenshots 14.22.35 # <[IDC]Dragon> unfortunately I've never seen that 14.22.40 # does anyone here know someone named "yeft" 14.22.48 # <[IDC]Dragon> URL ? 14.23.01 #>> "seen" used by Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) [snoop prevented] 14.23.12 # logan02: nope 14.25.05 # * kurzhaarrocker stratches his head 14.25.05 # Was it dwihno who did that icon gui demo? 14.28.17 # <[IDC]Dragon> Google thinks so, yes 14.28.56 Quit logan02 ("CGI:IRC") 14.29.09 # * [IDC]Dragon invokes dwhino 14.31.42 # Zagor: The rockbox ui already uses a bit of state code do distinguish short and long presses - the xxx_PRE stuff 14.32.49 # s/do/to/ 14.32.55 # of course, we have lots of state *code*. but we don't have user interface states of the type you propose. 14.33.20 # every switch() is a state machine 14.34.46 # The double-Off powerdown on recorders is an example for ui states, as is the handling of the On button (classic jukeboxes) in the browser. It's function depends on whether music is playing or not. 14.36.11 # i agree about the poweroff function, but not the on button. all buttons depend on state, always. browser, wps, menu etc. 14.37.01 # (otherwise even combos had to be considered as states, and let's not talk about the quick screens) 14.40.02 # amiconn: how exactly is your proposal? how do I resume again once I pause? is it sort of like a quick-screen with only stop and pause/resume as options? 14.41.21 # If we leave the assignment as-is, the first hit of "Off" could pause, the second could stop. Resume would then have to be done the same way as play from the browser, with Right. 14.41.42 # Of course this disallows skip-forward while in pause mode 14.43.13 # and the motive is that using off+repeat for stop is uncomfortable? 14.44.52 # Yes, but that is only one reason. As it is now, you resume with "Off" after pause - highly illogical. 14.45.51 # so we trade vol+, vol-, ffwd and rew during pause for a friendlier resume 14.45.52 # It also often happens for me that I only pause when I meant to stop. Then pressing "Off" a little longer first resumes for a fraction of a second, then stops for real 14.46.17 # Nope, only forward skip would be traded 14.46.23 # in that case it's a bug. it should only resume on off+release 14.46.56 Part kurzhaarrocker 14.46.56 # only ffwd? how logical is that? 14.48.04 # i think the changes are rather extensive just to move stop to another button 14.48.56 # Erm, because Right == Play on Ondio. I agree that it isn't full logical. 14.48.59 Nick midk_ is now known as midk (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) 14.51.59 # actually it's not play, that's just how the archos firmware maps it. the button is marked >> 14.53.02 # Agreed. So there is no real play button on that mp3 player - strange design eh? ;) 14.53.09 # :-) 14.55.35 Join elinenbe_ [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) 14.55.36 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.55.39 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) 14.57.24 # my keyboard's left control-key just broke 14.57.32 # terribly annoying 14.58.21 # i hardly ever use it, i have caps-lock mapped to ctrl instead. very pinky-friendly :) 14.58.54 # I do control-x s using that in my sleep ;-) 15.01.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.02.10 Part Zagor 15.02.21 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 15.08.07 # I've noticed that the good open neo guys remove more and more copyright texts 15.10.29 # maybe it's time to quote the law to them again 15.11.28 # yes, I'll write a mail the next one they take away 15.19.31 # Zagor: time to add ondio to the models on the front web page 15.20.12 # i planned to do that when we release 2.3 15.20.20 # ok 15.21.24 # Bagder: You wrote pong, correct? 15.21.31 # correct 15.21.45 # not the best piece I ever wrote, but... 15.24.04 # You choice for "down" for one of the players should be changed on the recorders. Right and Left are mechanically mutually-exclusive. While you can force the buttons to make contact at the same time, this is certainly not good for the button lifetime... 15.24.47 # I know 15.24.59 # I think it proves no one every played it for real ;-) 15.25.15 # s/every/ever 15.49.51 Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.49.52 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.51.18 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 15.51.34 # Found that while testing if my Ondio adaptions broke something on the recorder. I also found that pong isn't very playable - the paddles still move too slow, even with the new button driver 15.53.02 # even more proof nobody ever played it :) 15.56.53 # yup. I had the same problems with the chip8 emulator - many games either run too fast, or some graphics are missing. 16.08.28 # <[IDC]Dragon> chip8 has a serious button shortage, even on the recorder 16.12.34 # Yes, that's another problem. Iirc chip8 specifies 16 buttons. Recorder offers 9 of them, Ondio only 5... 16.12.55 # <[IDC]Dragon> many games are not playable because of this 16.13.23 # 16 buttons! that's a lot. 16.13.44 # <[IDC]Dragon> somebody suggested to have an (optional) map file per game. If the emulator finds such, it uses the mapping within, instead of the default. 16.15.10 # <[IDC]Dragon> 16 buttons is from the golden age when buttons were a lot cheaper than a CPU. Now it seems to be opposite. 16.16.04 # Yes, that's surely an option. However, I wonder why some graphics are not displayed... 16.20.07 # <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: I'm testing a crude keyboard adaption (just remapping) 16.20.51 # <[IDC]Dragon> it seems impossible to have Menu as a long press (for apply), as well as for a combo press 16.21.15 # <[IDC]Dragon> make the combo inoperable 16.22.48 # Of course. My proposal was a little different... 16.30.20 # <[IDC]Dragon> yes, distinguishing between "pickboard mode" and "line edit mode". 16.33.48 # As I now thought it over a bit - it shouldn't be hard to implement. 16.34.58 # Some of the shortcuts may also be handy for the recorder, e.g. long press of Play to accept (as an alternative, like On+Play<->Play+repeat in the browser) 16.37.41 # <[IDC]Dragon> the cose looks pretty clear, yes (made by Zagor ) 16.37.50 # <[IDC]Dragon> s/cose/code 16.38.26 # <[IDC]Dragon> before giving it 2 modes, I'm experimenting with just assignments 16.39.01 # <[IDC]Dragon> short press an combo for Menu is also tricky. 16.40.17 # <[IDC]Dragon> How did you do such? Did you write extra code to eat the release? Releasing the combo issues another relese. 16.41.42 # Short press and combo with menu as shift is easy. There are many examples for this meanwhile, both in the core and plugins. 16.42.00 # [IDC]Dragon: I use a _PRE constant. see TREE_WPS in tree.c for an example. 16.42.22 # You have to react on menu+release, but only if you got plain menu directly before (without repeat etc.) 16.42.53 # <[IDC]Dragon> so adding a little state machine? 16.43.42 # sort of, yes. it's a condition, rather. 16.44.28 # <[IDC]Dragon> Zagor: I see, you used a variable with the last button 16.44.38 # That's what all those 'lastbutton' variables are for. I did that for jpeg viewer, video.... 16.45.30 # <[IDC]Dragon> I'm a button designer newbie (sorry for not checking the commits carefully) 16.47.58 # You can check e.g. jpeg viewer (short menu is zoom in, long menu is zoom out) or video (menu alone is stop seek, menu+up/down is contrast) 16.48.13 # <[IDC]Dragon> yep, got it 17.00.03 # <[IDC]Dragon> OK, I have an assignment working now, by just remapping 17.00.20 # <[IDC]Dragon> nice to have the keyboard back, btw 17.00.54 # What did you do? So cryptic key combos? 17.01.01 # s/So/Some/ 17.01.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.01.40 Quit Lynx_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.01.47 # <[IDC]Dragon> ;-) 17.02.09 # <[IDC]Dragon> move is the arrows 17.02.24 # <[IDC]Dragon> menu Right/Left is cursor 17.02.38 # <[IDC]Dragon> Menu is char select 17.02.54 # <[IDC]Dragon> long Off is cancel 17.03.04 # <[IDC]Dragon> short Off is accept 17.03.17 # <[IDC]Dragon> Menu Up in page flip 17.03.26 # <[IDC]Dragon> Menu Down is backspace 17.03.41 # <[IDC]Dragon> (end of flood) 17.03.44 # Urgs (especially the Off combos) 17.03.56 # gotta go. see you guys. 17.03.57 Part Zagor 17.04.02 # <[IDC]Dragon> it's not an Off combo 17.04.40 # <[IDC]Dragon> it's accept (short) or cancel (long) 17.04.47 # Okay, imprecise speech. But Off==accept is highly illogical. And another long Off function... 17.04.49 Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 238 (Connection timed out)) 17.05.18 # <[IDC]Dragon> I know, I just tried to make a remap 17.06.17 # I think I'll go for the dual mode keyboard. Maybe I can reuse parts of that for a new player keyboard. The current one is rather cryptic... 17.06.39 # <[IDC]Dragon> unless you can think of a better map, I'll commit this as a starter 17.08.14 # I think you can't do any better with just remapping 17.09.39 # <[IDC]Dragon> following the Zagor design principle "don't change the code" 17.09.52 # ;) 17.10.19 Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) 17.10.23 # <[IDC]Dragon> seriously, I'd just like to get rid of the no keyboard splash asap 17.10.56 # Zagor Design ®™ 17.12.12 # <[IDC]Dragon> and celebrate full Rockbox functionality on the Ondio :-) 17.24.06 # * [IDC]Dragon leaves to celebrate 17.24.16 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC") 17.24.35 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 17.26.37 Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.26.49 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 17.38.56 Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a4327d.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) 17.40.04 Join ScrpWork [0] (~Naikel@naikel.ogangi.com) 17.54.58 # ? 17.55.02 # I wonder if I'm alive here 17.56.09 # Hello ScrpWork... 17.57.48 # hi there 18.00.22 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) 18.01.20 # hello 18.01.40 # anybody here with some knowledge on the rtc chip of the recorder? 18.09.19 # ok I don't even know what you're talking about 18.09.22 # so, not me :) 18.09.26 # lol 18.37.08 DEBUG Lost contact with server (snapshot: dancer.c line 124) 18.37.08 *** Cleanup 18.37.08 *** Cleanup 18.37.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.37.08 *** Exit 18.37.08 *** Started Dancer V4.16 18.37.08 DEBUG gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Resource temporarily unavailable) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) 18.37.08 DEBUG gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Resource temporarily unavailable) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) 18.37.08 DEBUG gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Resource temporarily unavailable) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) 18.37.08 DEBUG gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Resource temporarily unavailable) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) 18.37.08 DEBUG gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Resource temporarily unavailable) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) 18.37.08 *** Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 18.37.08 *** Logfile for #rockbox started 18.40.51 *** Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag' 18.40.51 Mode "logbot :+i" by logbot 18.40.51 Join logbot [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 18.40.51 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) 18.40.51 Join ScrpWork [0] (~Naikel@naikel.ogangi.com) 18.40.51 Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a4327d.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) 18.40.51 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 18.40.51 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 18.40.51 Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) 18.40.51 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 18.40.51 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7DDD7.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.40.51 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 18.40.51 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 18.40.51 Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EAA717.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.40.51 Join ze [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-44-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 18.40.51 Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) 18.40.51 Join Hadaka [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi) 18.40.51 Join Sebulba02 [0] (~Sebulba02@Darth-Sebulba04.active.supporter.pdpc) 18.40.51 Join silencer_ [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr) 18.40.51 Join Headie [0] (~hehe@fsto6.sto.sema.se) 18.40.51 Join rob [0] (rob@lychee.catalyst2.com) 18.40.51 Join dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) 18.40.51 Join mbr [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) 18.40.51 Join Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp261180pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) 18.54.21 Join Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.203) 19.09.25 Join _aLF [0] (~Alexandre@mutualite-3-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) 19.09.27 # <_aLF> hi 19.14.54 # yo 19.16.55 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 19.24.30 DEBUG Received signal 15 (SIGTERM), terminating (snapshot: dancer.c line 124) 19.24.30 *** Cleanup 19.24.30 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.24.30 *** Exit 19.27.25 *** Started Dancer V4.16 19.27.25 *** Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 19.27.25 *** Logfile for #rockbox started 19.27.26 *** Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag' 19.27.26 Mode "logbot :+i" by logbot 19.27.26 Join logbot [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) 19.27.26 Join _aLF [0] (~Alexandre@mutualite-3-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) 19.27.26 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) 19.27.26 Join ScrpWork [0] (~Naikel@naikel.ogangi.com) 19.27.26 Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a4327d.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) 19.27.26 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 19.27.26 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) 19.27.26 Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) 19.27.26 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 19.27.26 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7DDD7.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.27.26 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 19.27.26 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 19.27.26 Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EAA717.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.27.26 Join ze [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-44-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) 19.27.26 Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) 19.27.26 Join Hadaka [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi) 19.27.26 Join Sebulba02 [0] (~Sebulba02@Darth-Sebulba04.active.supporter.pdpc) 19.27.26 Join silencer_ [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr) 19.27.26 Join Headie [0] (~hehe@fsto6.sto.sema.se) 19.27.26 Join rob [0] (rob@lychee.catalyst2.com) 19.27.26 Join dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) 19.27.26 Join mbr [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) 19.27.26 Join Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp261180pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) 19.57.30 Join Bluechip [0] (~BlueChip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) 20.17.31 # * oxygen77 is away: chui pas là 20.27.31 Part oxygen77 ("Cho") 20.39.50 Quit AciD (Connection timed out) 20.40.38 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) 21.06.16 Quit gromit` ("Client exiting") 21.07.31 Join webguest64 [0] (~5230dbb5@labb.contactor.se) 21.07.48 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.08.16 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit`@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.08.32 Quit gromit`` (Remote closed the connection) 21.09.17 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit`@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.11.52 Quit gromit`` (Remote closed the connection) 21.13.56 Quit gromit` ("Client exiting") 21.14.33 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit`@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.17.10 Quit gromit` (Remote closed the connection) 21.18.12 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit`@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.18.59 Quit gromit` (Remote closed the connection) 21.19.40 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit`@ALagny-151-2-11-182.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.27.26 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.50.19 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9512789.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.56.42 Join mecraw__ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) 21.56.42 Quit mecraw_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.19.35 Quit webguest64 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 22.29.21 Join XavierGr [0] (~3e4a90e6@labb.contactor.se) 23.03.44 Quit XavierGr ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)") 23.11.25 Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.14.04 Quit methangas (" WOW! This IRC Client ownz! HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") 23.18.15 Part Bluechip 23.20.32 # <[IDC]Dragon> 'night! 23.20.40 Quit [IDC]Dragon () 23.26.56 Quit ScrpWork ("Scorpius MultiServer Script v0.1 for mIRC 6") 23.27.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.27.54 Join kramerica [0] (~lkd@hsdbsk142-165-191-20.sasknet.sk.ca) 23.28.17 Join Zagor [0] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com) 23.28.29 Quit kramerica (Client Quit) 23.29.48 Join kkkk [0] (kkkk@user-2393.lns5-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) 23.30.01 # hey 23.30.10 Join Newone^ [0] (~3fe3aa54@labb.contactor.se) 23.30.21 # anybody home? 23.30.28 # yes 23.30.34 # how are you doing :) 23.30.39 # fine thanks 23.30.52 # are you one of the rockbox team? 23.31.06 # yes 23.31.17 # how are the projects going guys 23.31.28 # fine thanks :) 23.31.37 # any major problems? 23.31.47 # lack of time! 23.32.05 # lol..do you work on your projects in your free time yes? 23.32.05 # yeah. i need a daytime expansion kid. 23.32.10 # yes 23.32.15 # kit even 23.32.19 # Hello.. Anyone know how to get jukebox studio 10 or its like.. To be seen / used in winxp? archos web site says winxp will auto see it as a usb mass storage device.. BUt it never can find drivers.. < have to of thes.. and tried it on 3 computers with winxp.. any help or links to help would be nice ;) 23.32.43 # Newone^: you need a special driver. studio 10 is not usb-storage compliant. 23.32.43 # you need to install drivers 23.32.46 # two of these* 23.32.51 # * kkkk *sends leaked version of Ms ExtraTime to Zagor+Badger 23.33.38 # I tried the win9x drivers at archos.. but they see it once.. then seems to mess up and crashes windows xp 23.33.49 # any idea where to get the drivers for winxp? 23.33.50 # * amiconn notices an active Bagder 23.34.07 # only half active 23.34.11 # couldn't sleep 23.34.12 # Bagder: With the new build system, there is a slight quirk. 23.34.21 # with what? 23.34.34 # * kkkk quirk..!! tut.. 23.35.10 # do you all work on iriver and the archos one or do u have two teams, etc? 23.35.15 # Newone^: http://www.archos.com/download/drivers/TPPINST_5_04.EXE 23.35.15 # As soon as one single plugin needs to be rebuilt, *all* plugins are linked + objcopied again (probably because the intermediate .elf files are deleted after the build) 23.35.38 # well, I don't know why the elf file is deleted 23.35.47 # it did that before as well actually 23.36.09 # but I'll see what I can do 23.36.18 # Zagor .. thank you very much.. will try them now :) 23.36.57 # O.o.. one more happy customer! 23.37.54 # u guys need a hand? 23.38.04 # kkkk: we're not that organised. everyone does whatever they enjoy doing. 23.38.22 # we can always use help 23.38.41 # ah..well i really appriciate your efforts..I recently purchased iRiver one and found out about your group 23.39.32 # but vb is as far my programming skills go so.. lol ill stick with wasting your time on irc.. 23.39.38 # :) 23.42.24 # hmmm so how far are you with the project? still trying to understand the firmware? 23.42.44 # no. we are not looking at the iriver firmware, we are porting our own. 23.43.08 # we have the scheduler running and a simple backlight blink demo 23.43.22 # nice 23.44.06 # programming firmware sounds alot of fun!!..no use of win32 api im guessing!! 23.44.18 # Installed that driver on a clean system.. Now its doing same thing as the others did with the archos win9x drivers.. restarting they computer < crash.. when hook up the jukebox ;( 23.44.30 # hehe, no. all code is ours. 23.44.57 # Newone^: do you hook up the jukebox when it's on or off? 23.45.13 # on.. 23.45.20 # that a no no ;) 23.45.35 # > 23.45.54 # no that's fine. sounds like bad drivers then, but those are all I could find on archos.com 23.46.20 # Then there the same ones I used.. 23.46.37 # it sees it after.. and seems ok.. but drive does not show up in My computer 23.47.31 # Newone^: consider posting a q to the mailing list 23.47.50 # ok.. thanks 23.48.13 # hey can i ask you guys a random hardware question? 23.48.25 # sure 23.48.26 # try us! 23.49.08 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7F90E.dip.t-dialin.net) 23.49.36 # lol..well..i recently built a new system, with a 200gb western digital hdd (bad choice!), and the hdd has failed..ive lost 80gb files..i cant connect it up so i cant format the hdd or anything..do u think a magnet could destroy the data? (or shall i trust WD with not reporting me to police lol) 23.50.26 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 23.50.27 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7F90E.dip.t-dialin.net) 23.50.38 # no idea 23.50.53 # ah hmm 23.51.25 # if you're scared they might find the contents, then no, a magnet won't be enough 23.51.39 # lol :\ 23.53.39 # which mp3 player do u guys personally use anyway? archos? 23.53.47 # yes 23.54.15 # hehe..i was gonna get it but its abit too much for a student :\ 23.55.14 # you are probably thinking of the newer archos models. we use the older "jukebox" types. 23.55.39 Join paradox [0] (~45f31293@labb.contactor.se) 23.55.39 # oh right..do you guys work in an office or something? 23.55.58 # we are all over the world 23.56.09 # I guess a bunch work in offices 23.56.10 # big office :) 23.56.28 # hehe nice =)..any persians? lol.. 23.56.54 # possibly. we don't keep track of everyone's nationality 23.57.14 # ooh..how many members are we talking? 23.57.32 # well the mailing list has 600 subscribers 23.57.47 # hehe how many contribute directly to the project? most? 23.58.09 # no, maybe 50-60 23.58.21 # ah not too bad 23.58.29 # 86 named in CREDITS 23.58.30 # not counting bug reports and such feedback 23.58.33 # I have jokebox 20 that seems fine.. but the kids studio 10 and juckbox 5000 are useless now.. < not going back to win9x just to have drivers that work :D 23.58.45 # lol :\ 23.58.47 # Bagder: I stand corrected :) 23.58.52 # :-)