--- Log for 04.01.105  Server: niven.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 1 month and 25 days ago

00.00.46 #       <amiconn> Really?
00.01.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> testing more, got fooled so many times yesterday+today
00.03.08 #       <amiconn> The wrong snippet within a song is around 5 seconds long. This coincides with 256 sectors (= 128 KB) @ ~200 kbps
00.06.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> fat cache inuse: this is worse, early marking helps not much
00.06.36 #       <amiconn> I was just about saying the same..
00.07.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> when yielding away, thread B will find it inuse and still overwrite it
00.07.43 #       <amiconn> yup, first freeing it and then reuse
00.08.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then A continues and we have a mess
00.08.44 #       <amiconn> This really asks for a mutex :-/
00.10.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and/or a smarter caching strategy
00.10.52 #       <amiconn> I even doubt a mutex will help much here, if it should not be held for too long
00.11.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> like ata :-/
00.12.37 #       <amiconn> ?
00.12.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 256 sectors takes a while
00.13.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and we mutex that
00.13.56 #       <amiconn> yes, meaning that no-one else can use ata in the meantime. This would be impossible anyway.
00.15.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ata_mmc: I think it behaves better now, with the selection in the mutex
00.15.52 #       <amiconn> No more vanishing root dirs?
00.16.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not yet
00.17.18 #       <amiconn> Btw: I get my partly vanishing root dir when returning from *any* subdir (including the virtual /<MMC1>) and the mpeg thread is currently reloading
00.17.40 #       <amiconn> reloading from external, that is
00.17.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> let me commit that ata_mmc
00.20.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> done
00.27.21 #       <amiconn> I was also unable to reproduce the vanishing effect so far :-)
00.27.30 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I didn't manage to break it any more
00.28.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but still, the fat caching needs an overhaul
00.28.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> independent from that
00.28.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> let's talk to Zagor about it, tomorrow
00.28.52 #       <amiconn> yes
00.29.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> who knows what funny rare effects it may have caused in the past
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00.29.35 #       <amiconn> You said you tried hot plug already, and there were problems?
00.29.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> maybe this is part of a recording problem
00.30.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (hotplug) no, I looked in the code and put it away
00.30.58 #       <amiconn> Hotplug shouldn't be that hard. It's similar to usb handling
00.31.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> because I'm not into these system messages and what to do where with it
00.31.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> looked like a Jens' job ;-)
00.31.38 #       <amiconn> However, this requires your mount function to be able to mount single drives
00.32.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I can split that
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00.32.19 #       <amiconn> ..and an unmount function as counterpart (most likely simply setting the "mounted" member to false)
00.32.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
00.33.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we could try to be nice to open files
00.34.05 #       <amiconn> How? If the MMC is pulled, it's already too late...
00.34.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> like, setting a counter magic in the file struct, which has to match a similar bpb entry
00.34.48 #       <amiconn> Yes, I also thought about closing all files that are located on a removed volume
00.34.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then we can at least deflect attempts on that file
00.35.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> instead of writing somewhere on our new volume
00.35.41 #       <amiconn> What magic are you talking about? In case of a dismount, simply close all open handles that point to that volume.
00.36.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how doyou know where they are?
00.36.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> iirc, the caller owns them, or am I wrong?
00.36.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I think I'm wrong
00.37.00 #       <amiconn> The file handles are an array of structs, simply walk through all of them
00.37.16 #       <amiconn> ..and check whether they are inuse, and point to the removed volume
00.37.42 #       <amiconn> If the caller later tries to access the now closed handle, it gets an error return
00.38.04 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, if they are all in one place, this is easy
00.38.43 #       <amiconn> firmware/common/file.c, line 51: static struct filedesc openfiles[MAX_OPEN_FILES];
00.38.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the fat_file structs are distributed (part of dir entries, etc.), but that's one layer below
00.39.40 #       <amiconn> The fat_file struct of a file is embedded into the filedesc structure
00.40.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> same goes for "opendirs" array
00.40.25 #       <amiconn> yup
00.40.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ok, then I can sleep well now.
00.40.50 #       <amiconn> Nite
00.41.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> nite, too
00.41.06 #       <amiconn> I think I'll follow, and not work until 3am today
00.41.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> :-)
00.41.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or rather |-)
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01.32.13 #       <Goatmale> Hello.
01.34.45 #       <Goatmale> Can anyone help me?
01.39.34 #       <quelsaruk> tell us
01.39.36 #       <quelsaruk> :)
01.39.46 #       <quelsaruk> maybe we can help you
01.39.57 #       <Goatmale> w00t
01.40.27 #       <Goatmale> I just got my archos for christmas, and it's awesome, mad props to the founders of rockbox.
01.40.37 #       <Goatmale> But uh, I have a lot of movies.
01.40.49 #       <Goatmale> And I want to easily convert them.
01.41.02 #       <quelsaruk> usig windows?
01.41.05 #       <Goatmale> yep
01.41.37 #       <quelsaruk> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VideoTutorial
01.41.38 #       <quelsaruk> :)
01.41.43 #       <quelsaruk> read that
01.41.45 #       <quelsaruk> :)
01.42.00 #       <Goatmale> Yeah the link didn't work though x.x
01.42.16 #       <Goatmale> For the GUI conversion tool.
01.42.41 #       <quelsaruk> hmm
01.42.48 #       <quelsaruk> strange
01.42.56 #       <Goatmale> Does it work for you?
01.44.20 #       <quelsaruk> http://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/video/DirectShow/
01.44.25 #       <quelsaruk> check this then
01.44.36 #       <quelsaruk> seems to be another way to do it
01.44.42 #       <quelsaruk> read thereadme there
01.44.50 #       <quelsaruk> and use the files 
01.45.20 #       <Goatmale> Thank you very much.
01.47.12 Join    mrelwood [0] (~54e68f48@labb.contactor.se)
01.47.45 #       <quelsaruk> you  are welcome
01.47.47 #       <quelsaruk> :)
01.48.17 #       <Goatmale> Oh and do you use the chip 8 emulator?
01.48.26 #       <mrelwood> i just got offered an Archos Recorder 20GB, rockbox installed. could it be worth checking out for a MD killer?
01.48.57 #       <Goatmale> how much?
01.49.26 #       <mrelwood> i bet it would be dirt cheap.
01.49.47 #       <Goatmale> I love my rockbox/archos.
01.50.11 #       <mrelwood> i'm more concerned if it will be a good md-recorder replacement.
01.50.18 #       <Goatmale> MD?
01.50.23 #       <mrelwood> minidisc.
01.51.02 #       <Goatmale> I think the quailty is pretty good...
01.51.19 #       <Goatmale> But I don't have anything to compare it to
01.51.35 #       <mrelwood> so it can record in good quality?
01.51.37 #       <quelsaruk> mmmmhhh
01.51.45 #       <quelsaruk> archos recorder?
01.52.01 #       <quelsaruk> can record good quality VBR mp3
01.52.12 #       <quelsaruk> via digital, analogic or microphone
01.52.42 #       <quelsaruk> i prefer a 20GB hd mp3 player than a MD, but is just my opinion
01.52.57 #       <mrelwood> it has a dedicated mic input?!
01.53.17 #       <quelsaruk> has a mic built-in
01.53.33 #       <quelsaruk> and you can use a external mic with the analogic line in
01.54.10 #       <mrelwood> ok. no wav rec?
01.54.32 #       <quelsaruk> sincerely, i haven't recorded anything (and got my old recorder6 hm.. 3 or 4 years ago??)
01.54.37 #       <quelsaruk> no wav recording
01.54.44 #       <quelsaruk> mp3 recording
01.54.45 #       <mrelwood> darn
01.55.39 #       <quelsaruk> Goatmale: no, i don't use the chip8 emulator
01.55.47 #       <Goatmale> oh...
01.55.55 #       <Goatmale> Is it like a game emulator?
01.56.37 #       <quelsaruk> check the manual
01.56.44 #       <quelsaruk> it's explained there
01.56.46 #       <Goatmale> It didn't say..
01.56.58 #       <Goatmale> Unless i'm stupid
01.58.03 #       <quelsaruk> well, it's an emulator
01.58.08 #       <quelsaruk> chip8 emulator plugin
01.58.14 #       <quelsaruk> that's the official name :D
01.58.59 #       <quelsaruk> page 56 on the manual :)
01.59.27 #       <Goatmale> Ohhh okay :)
01.59.29 #       <Goatmale> gotcha
01.59.49 #       <mrelwood> recorder 20, only up to 160kbps recording. i'm afraid that doesn't do it for me.
02.00.18 #       <Goatmale> You a musican?
02.00.54 #       <quelsaruk> mrelwood: 170kbps VBR
02.01.08 #       <mrelwood> yes
02.01.16 #       <quelsaruk> if i'm not wrong
02.02.30 #       <mrelwood> that helps some. i have to take it for a test drive. Gmini 220 could be better for me.
02.02.44 #       <quelsaruk> hmmm
02.03.12 Part    mrelwood
02.03.46 #       <quelsaruk> 170kbps is ok for a lot of music styles
02.03.46 #       <quelsaruk> :D
02.03.56 Join    _mrelwood [0] (~54e68f48@labb.contactor.se)
02.04.03 #       <quelsaruk> re _mrelwood
02.04.14 #       <_mrelwood> whoops... wrong button...
02.05.01 #       <quelsaruk> _mrelwood: have you ever recorded in wav, and later on compressed the file using for example Lame --preset standard to check the VBR bitrate of your music?
02.05.33 #       <quelsaruk> i mean, some music styles doesn't need a 220kbps vbr mp3 to be *perfect*
02.06.10 #       <_mrelwood> yes, i have done several quality tests. but I am going to do some recording for post-production, and the quality has to be good.
02.06.25 #       <quelsaruk> hmm
02.06.28 #       <quelsaruk> that's another thing
02.06.29 #       <quelsaruk> :)
02.06.41 #       <_mrelwood> for example, recording a drumset and bringing the track home for editing.
02.06.51 #       <quelsaruk> then maybe you prefer a wav recorder
02.07.18 #       <_mrelwood> yes. :) does any of the archos recorders support wav recording?
02.07.23 #       <quelsaruk> no
02.07.30 #       <quelsaruk> that can't be
02.07.44 #       <quelsaruk> well.. not jukebox recorders
02.08.04 #       <quelsaruk> i don't know if gmini or other ones support wav recording
02.08.05 #       <_mrelwood> recorder v2, fm recorder, still no wav?
02.08.09 #       <quelsaruk> no
02.08.31 #       <_mrelwood> I understood that gmini220 has wav recording. not sure though.
02.09.02 #       <Goatmale> isn't there an mp3 recorder>
02.09.09 #       <Goatmale> called lame?
02.09.12 #       <_mrelwood> if only the iRiver didn't have the recording glitch, it would be SO easy to choose!
02.09.35 #       <_mrelwood> goatmale: a portable mp3 recorder?
02.09.38 #       <quelsaruk> recorder?
02.10.25 #       <quelsaruk> lame is an mp3 encoder
02.10.33 #       <Goatmale> ohh
02.11.12 #       <_mrelwood> that's what i thought. i'll test the rec20 tomorrow anyway. thanks for the help!
02.11.40 #       <quelsaruk> if you don't like it.. there are more mp3 players over there
02.11.43 #       <quelsaruk> check them
02.11.44 #       <quelsaruk> :D
02.12.19 #       <_mrelwood> well, don't need a player, need a recorder! ;) thanks.
02.12.25 #       <quelsaruk> hehe
02.12.29 #       <quelsaruk> ok, mp3 recorders
02.14.18 #       <quelsaruk> time to go to sleep
02.14.19 #       <_mrelwood> well, there aren't that many. i'm starting to feel that I've gone through them all a few times.
02.14.21 #       <quelsaruk> cu l8r!
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02.14.29 #       <_mrelwood> :)
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02.16.18 #       <Goatmale> hum..
02.16.38 #       <Goatmale> Is there anything i'm missing to get the most out of my rockbox?
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05.04.44 #       <earHertz> hello
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08.43.51 Join    Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
08.57.19 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
08.57.57 #       <Zagor> howdy linus
08.58.27 #       <LinusN> hola
08.58.34 #       <dwihno> Bueno!
09.00.32 #       <dwihno> Do you think the irivers with radio models are "airplane safe"?
09.00.47 #       <dwihno> And my english is really, really great today, btw! :)
09.01.19 #       <Zagor> i never really understood the criteria for what devices airlines prohibit. some won't even allow cd players.
09.01.29 #       <dwihno> they don't?
09.03.30 #       <LinusN> dwihno: generally, devices with radio transmitters are prohibited
09.05.29 #       <dwihno> that's true
09.06.02 #       <dwihno> Sounds like a leftover rule from the 80's
09.06.57 Join    lImbus [0] (lImbus@121-46.244.81.adsl.skynet.be)
09.07.01 #       <lImbus> moin
09.09.16 #       <LinusN> morning lImbus
09.09.34 #       <lImbus> yeh
09.10.47 #       <dwihno> is the "UMS" (what does that stand for?) iriver firmwares mass storage compliant?
09.11.21 #       <Zagor> what is that? link?
09.11.54 #       <lImbus> dwihno, isn't that USB Mass Storage ?
09.12.29 #       <dwihno> Zagor: just surfing the iriver firmware pages... I'm gonna get a flash based player for my bike rides... It's too cold for my poor archos
09.12.43 #       <dwihno> lImbus: aah, well, it must be! :)
09.13.32 #       <lImbus> it just sounds fit and proper.
09.14.07 #       <Zagor> is there "non-UMS" firmwares for those players as well?
09.14.40 #       <dwihno> dunno... haven't checked that much
09.15.12 #       <dwihno> http://www.thegame.se/catalog.php?prodid=1347 - heh, guess somebody needs to adjust their prices to a sane market level
09.15.33 #       <lImbus> isn't there a drm-stuff ? isn't there a us-firmware that only transfers files through a special software ?
09.15.51 #       <lImbus> eu-software would then be ums though
09.16.42 #       <lImbus> uh, I like swedish. it just looks funnay :D
09.18.18 #       <dwihno> Then you should hear the rumpnissars
09.18.21 #       <dwihno> voffooo dååå
09.18.29 #       <dwihno> voffo gö di på detta viset
09.18.32 #       <dwihno> \o/
09.19.00 #       <lImbus> yay
09.21.14 #       <dwihno> IFP-799 looks pretty sweet
09.21.28 #       <dwihno> How soon can I expect a rockbox port? ;)
09.21.30 #       <dwihno> j/k
09.21.35 #       <Zagor> :)
09.21.46 #       <lImbus> why are you fixed on a iRiver-device ?
09.21.57 #       <lImbus> why not any cheapo ?
09.22.06 #       <dwihno> It is quite cheap
09.22.49 #       <lImbus> ah, ok, I thought it was more expensive than comparable no names, considering your comment at 09:15.
09.22.57 #       <lImbus> I did not calculate the conversion, of course
09.23.04 #       <dwihno> 2800 SEK (approx 310 euro)
09.23.09 #       <lImbus> uhhh
09.23.25 #       <dwihno> That's quite an alright price for a gig of flash
09.25.46 #       <lImbus> ok, the size is busting it all. I see 256 MB-cheapos for about 60-90 euro
09.26.03 #       <lImbus> no drm, no wma, no ogg I suppose
09.26.35 #       <lImbus> why no ondio :D ?
09.27.14 #       <dwihno> add a set of fontopia phones, and you got a nice set for biking and training
09.27.18 #       <dwihno> it's too bulky
09.27.42 #       <dwihno> a set of 3 aaa batts makes it a bit heavy
09.27.57 #       <lImbus> kk
10.06.25 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
10.08.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 'morning!
10.09.28 #       <Zagor> hi
10.09.40 #       <crash_> ah zagor
10.09.46 #       <crash_> i have a question for you
10.10.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> me too
10.11.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (multivolume now works, but we still see a danger in the fat caching code)
10.13.19 Quit    lImbus (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
10.15.39 #       <LinusN> saw the logs
10.16.12 #       <LinusN> where exactly is the fat cache danger?
10.17.46 #       <crash_> Zagor: who is responsible for the wiki ?
10.17.55 #       <LinusN> we all are
10.18.05 #       <crash_> hmm ok, i know its a wiki
10.18.39 #       <crash_> i ask, cause i read on the mailinglist or irc, dont remember that too technical stuff shouldnt be put into the wiki
10.18.59 #       <LinusN> "too technical"?
10.19.01 #       <crash_> i thought it would be a quite good idea to put progress on gmini online
10.19.24 #       <LinusN> the iriver progress is in the wiki, so i think the gmini progress could be there as well
10.19.38 #       <crash_> yesterday a friend of mine showed me his gmini, and i thought, that there is a rockbox version for it
10.19.46 #       <crash_> went for rockbox.org and found nothing
10.20.00 #       <LinusN> in fact, most technical documentation is in the wiki
10.20.20 #       <crash_> later that day i talked to yup who told me that it works but information is in a separat wiki
10.20.32 #       <crash_> which makes no sense in my opinion
10.21.07 #       <crash_> yeah i see your postings about the iriver ( and hope you will get closer to the boot loader ;))
10.21.23 #       <crash_> you know the wiki about the gmini ?
10.21.37 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: i think i see the fat cache problem
10.21.55 #       <LinusN> no, i don't know about a gmini wiki
10.24.27 #       <Zagor> there is a wiki about gmemu here: http://www.donat.org/archos/wiki/doku.php
10.25.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN, Zagor: I came to some conclusions on how to mutex the fat cache:
10.26.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> cache_fat_sector() should get dirty flag param, too, to tell read from write
10.26.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> for reading, it's sufficient to set the mutex before changing an entry to used doing the ata read, releasing it afterwards
10.27.00 #       <crash_> LinusN: i meant the wiki Zagor posted
10.27.08 #       <LinusN> crash_: ok
10.27.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the functions using it are not task switching any after, until they finish their job
10.27.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> writing is different
10.28.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> sorry, it isn't
10.29.10 #       <LinusN> i see a problem even when not writing
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10.29.40 #       <crash_> LinusN: so do you think this information can be put into the offical wiki?
10.29.45 #       <LinusN> it is possible to cache the wrong sector
10.29.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> imho, we only need to make cache_fat_sector() atomic
10.30.03 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: yes
10.30.45 #       <LinusN> a simple mutex in cache_fat_sector() should do the trick
10.31.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
10.31.33 #       <LinusN> we could optimize it a bit with some clever code, but i think the performance is sufficient anyway
10.32.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I wonder why this caused so little trouble
10.32.21 #       <LinusN> crash_: www.donat.org is not responding here...
10.32.36 #       <Zagor> because we only very rarely access files from two threads simulatenously
10.32.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or, what sporadic problems we can blame it for
10.32.51 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: the probability of a cache collision is faily small, i guess
10.33.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> play and record is prone for it
10.33.53 #       <LinusN> recording is a one-thread thing
10.34.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> oh, it is? then playback only
10.34.29 #       <LinusN> playback is another issue, where there is a really tiny chance of a fat cache collision when upodating the playlist control file
10.34.37 #       <Zagor> playback while browsing directories
10.35.23 #       <LinusN> ah, that too
10.35.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> any foreground activity with the disk
10.36.06 #       <LinusN> still, you have to have some real bad luck to hit it
10.36.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so this isn't the recording bug :-(
10.38.13 #       <crash_> LinusN: strange, the same problem was there yesterday, i have no problems accessing the site
10.38.22 #       <LinusN> hmmm, there is a slight risk in the recording code too!
10.38.24 #       <crash_> another reason to put this on rockbox.org
10.39.26 #       <LinusN> the file name generation on the Ondio opens the directory to generate the file names
10.43.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> away now
10.44.15 #       <Zagor> LinusN: who else accesses the file system when it does that?
10.49.41 Join    MooMaunder [0] (~me@194.152.87.150)
10.58.03 #       <crash_> so LinusN what do you think about the wiki?
10.58.50 #       <Zagor> crash_: we welcome all information and all people, but it's ultimately up to the authors
10.59.31 #       <crash_> ok, so i will talk to yup again and transfer the data from the gmini wiki to rockbox.org if its ok for strath who was starter of gmini project
11.00.17 #       <Zagor> ok. just be careful to not step on any toes.
11.00.41 #       <crash_> yeah thats why i wanted to ask you today :)
11.00.59 #       <crash_> and yup also wants to have "permission" of strath
11.01.26 #       <crash_> he complained that there is much progress in gmini port, but it doenst show up in rockbox.org
11.02.12 #       <Bagder> I wonder if the time will come when we start a rockbox-dev mailing list
11.02.38 #       <Zagor> well, do they want it to? if so, they are very welcome to join both the channel, mailing list, wiki and and (eventually) cvs
11.02.50 Join    Quel|away [0] (~kvirc@80.103.129.238)
11.02.54 #       <Quel|away> good morning
11.03.07 #       <Bagder> Quel|away: did you reach Archos?
11.03.15 #       <Quel|away> yes
11.03.27 #       <Bagder> getting a replacement?
11.03.36 #       <Quel|away> they told me to send them the box
11.03.38 #       <Quel|away> :)
11.03.44 #       <Quel|away> they pay shipment
11.03.45 #       <Bagder> fair enough
11.03.50 #       <Quel|away> yes
11.04.20 #       <Quel|away> i hope they don't start now with "we received the box after warranty expired" or something like that
11.04.30 #       <Bagder> crash_: if they are serious about their rockbox port, they should join the mailing list and this irc channel really
11.04.40 #       <Bagder> it'll benefit all of us
11.04.45 #       <crash_> ähm strath is on mailing list
11.04.50 #       <crash_> yup is often in channel here
11.04.50 #       <Bagder> ok
11.05.01 #       <Quel|away> even if archos has 1 year warranty, seagate hdd for external cases have 2 year warranty.. so it's covered by archos or seagate :/
11.05.43 #       <Zagor> crash_: ok. what I mean is that I don't see a strong reason to separate gmini work from the rest, unless those working on it prefers it that way
11.06.11 #       <LinusN> Zagor: recording.c reads the current dir to find out the next file number while mpeg.c writes to the current file
11.06.41 #       <Zagor> LinusN: why do we need to check the disk for next number? isn't it just incremented from previous?
11.07.10 #       <crash_> if you have a look on the gmini wiki, it seems rather good developed
11.07.18 #       <crash_> Zagor: i dont want it to separte
11.07.30 #       <crash_> that why i want to put it into the official wiki
11.07.33 #       <LinusN> it is a "robust" implementation that doesn't fail if there are old filexxxx.mp3 files in that dir
11.08.00 #       <crash_> but i also have the impression that they arent really "integrated" thats something i want to talk about with yup / strath
11.08.10 #       <Zagor> LinusN: right, instead it confuses the heck out of the user :) but i agree it's the better way.
11.08.12 #       <LinusN> you can argue that it only needs to be done when starting the recording, but this method is fairly KISS
11.08.59 #       <LinusN> so i guess we all agree that we should add a mutex to the fat cache
11.09.10 #       <Zagor> yes
11.10.28 #       <Bagder> crash_: yes, we should work on getting more integrated
11.10.44 #       <Bagder> one large happy rockbox family
11.12.16 #       <crash_> ok i will talk to them, and start porting the wiki to rockbox, if they dont have a special reason to wanting it stay where it is :)
11.13.38 #       <Zagor> i agree. i just want to stress that not everyone necessarily wants to be part of our family, and we must be careful not to appear to try and force their hands. their enthusiasm is the top priority.
11.14.12 #       <Bagder> I agree with that
11.14.35 #       <crash_> Zagor: right, but i think rockbox and THEY only can profit from putting it together
11.14.50 #       <crash_> and i dont really think that strath wanted it to be separted
11.15.14 #       <Zagor> that sounds good
11.15.21 #       <crash_> i just think they code for fun, and dont want to stress with making things public
11.15.39 #       <crash_> maybe someone doing documentation will help them
11.15.44 #       <crash_> this is what i wanna do
11.15.56 #       <crash_> dont think my c coding would really help ;)
11.25.05 #       <Bagder> I wonder why he enlarged the rockbox logo that ugly on the donat.org page
11.26.05 #       <crash_> maybe he likes it so much ;)
11.26.29 #       <Zagor> i guess he wanted all logos the same width or something
11.26.52 #       <Zagor> lunch
11.26.57 #       <LinusN> indeed
11.28.06 #       <Bagder> well, he could've resized down a bigger logo, instead of zoomed a smaller
11.28.39 #       <Bagder> not that it matters much
11.29.18 #       * Bagder gets restless waiting for the iRiver boot loader... :-)
11.30.00 #       * crash_ too
11.39.46 Join    lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net)
11.39.52 #       <lImbus> re
11.41.08 #       <crash_> LinusN: do you have an idea, when you'll finish it? :)
12.10.19 #       <gromit`> crash i think there is no pb porting the wiki
12.11.15 #       <gromit`> maybe i'm wrong but it seems we did it separately because at the beginning the rockbox team didn't want the gmini to be part of it
12.11.40 #       <crash_> oh thats a news ;)
12.11.54 #       <gromit`> that's what i found in the irc archive
12.12.02 #       <gromit`> but maybe my interpretation is bad :)
12.12.13 #       <crash_> Bagder: you know if there was a discussion in this direction ?
12.12.17 #       <crash_> ;)
12.12.41 #       <crash_> so then i can start porting it
12.12.44 #       <gromit`> according to rockbox the gmini was open enough not to need a rockbox port
12.13.02 #       <crash_> but you ported rockbox?
12.13.03 #       <gromit`> cause archos had announced plugins...
12.13.29 #       <crash_> are there binaries to download for the enduser ?
12.13.34 #       <gromit`> jyp started this and i'm joining him
12.13.49 #       <gromit`> yes but the public cvs is down
12.13.58 #       <gromit`> on strath's server
12.14.15 #       <gromit`> we got a new cvs up yesterday but it is on my machine :)
12.14.20 #       <crash_> so currently no download available
12.14.35 #       <gromit`> and i just provide a ssh access
12.14.44 #       <gromit`> i can send you a tar maybe
12.14.57 #       <crash_> i dont have a gmini myself
12.15.06 #       <gromit`> you have an emulator
12.15.11 #       <crash_> how does flashing on gmini work
12.15.29 #       <gromit`> ?
12.15.35 #       <crash_> i should have installed it long time ago ;)
12.15.50 #       <gromit`> (btw i am at work i can't spend too much time on irc :))
12.16.02 #       <crash_> i dont know anything about the gmini and if it works the same way other archos devices work
12.16.07 #       <crash_> so i just asked ;)
12.16.12 #       <crash_> np
12.16.29 #       <gromit`> do you want to know about the flashing internals 
12.16.34 #       <crash_> i'm at work too, but here irc is just another communicating method ;)
12.16.36 #       <gromit`> or just how do we flash ?
12.16.48 #       <crash_> i want to know how gmini can use rockbox
12.17.13 #       <crash_> do i have to flash or is it just like putting a file on hdd as in player/recorders models?
12.17.22 #       <crash_> this is what i know from my player
12.18.08 #       <gromit`> jyp has managed to pack a file to put on the hd
12.18.15 #       <crash_> great
12.18.18 #       <gromit`> ya
12.18.30 #       <crash_> so i can give your tar file a friend of mine and he can test :)
12.18.40 #       <crash_> you re working in linux or w32 ?
12.18.44 #       <gromit`> linux
12.18.48 #       <crash_> asking because auf the emulator
12.18.51 #       <gromit`> but it is w32 compatible
12.18.58 #       <crash_> hard to setup under linux ?
12.19.13 #       <gromit`> if you want gcc cross compiler 
12.19.16 #       <gromit`> it may take some time
12.19.18 #       <crash_> maybe i should have a look into the wiki to set it up ;)
12.19.31 #       <gromit`> we are working on it
12.19.39 #       <crash_> at the moment i dont need the compiler cause i dont really have c skills :/
12.19.46 #       <gromit`> but if you only want the emulator
12.19.51 #       <gromit`> is it straightforward
12.19.52 #       <crash_> just the emu
12.20.09 #       <gromit`> text based emu is c++
12.20.14 #       <gromit`> gui is qt
12.20.14 #       <crash_> so is there a simple webpage?
12.20.18 #       <crash_> ah :)
12.20.20 #       <gromit`> so both must be w32 compatible
12.20.47 #       <gromit`> www.donat.org/archos/wiki is the wiki
12.20.54 #       <gromit`> www.donat.org/archos/ is the webpage
12.21.00 #       <gromit`> www.donat.org/bboard is the forum
12.21.22 #       <gromit`> all our recent work has been done on the wiki
12.21.34 #       <crash_> how many people are working on the gmini ?
12.21.58 #       <gromit`> strath jyp and i
12.22.05 #       <crash_> cause there shouldnt be 2 wikis
12.22.08 #       <gromit`> treyqae help us and disappeared
12.22.19 #       <crash_> ah, sometimes this happens
12.22.19 #       <gromit`> and udo also helps us
12.22.35 #       <crash_> u know if/when strath will return ?
12.22.42 #       <gromit`> that's our problem
12.22.44 #       <gromit`> we dunno
12.22.55 #       <gromit`> he disappeared suddenly
12.24.55 #       <gromit`> the best is to discuss about it this evening
12.25.01 #       <gromit`> when jyp is present
12.25.08 #       <gromit`> and i'm not at work
12.25.15 #       <crash_> so the question stays the same. i think porting the wiki only makes sense, when u, developing rockbox for gmini will use rockbox wiki
12.25.19 #       <crash_> yeah ok
12.25.23 #       <crash_> makes sense :)
12.25.48 #       <gromit`> i see no problem is using rockbox wiki
12.25.50 #       <gromit`> in
12.26.01 #       <gromit`> our pb is also to find a cvs
12.26.10 #       <gromit`> to put public stuff
12.26.24 #       <crash_> pb?
12.27.19 #       <crash_> the wiki question is only about strath, cause he started it and just making things he maybe doesnt want isnt really nice
12.28.05 #       <gromit`> jyp i and started the wiki
12.28.11 #       <gromit`> jyp and i
12.28.12 #       <crash_> ah ok
12.28.27 #       <gromit`> pb = problem
12.28.56 #       <gromit`> going to eat
12.28.58 #       <gromit`> brb
12.29.21 #       <crash_> i would start porting the wiki to rockbox this evening when yup you and i have discussed all important sutff
12.29.36 #       <crash_> with cvs we could ask Bagder or LinusN maybe
12.29.37 ***     No seen item changed, no save performed.
12.35.01 #       <lImbus> [IDC]Dragon: I just flashed a co-workers OndioSP. rb-version 2.4 with the wiki-flash-download-package.
12.35.08 #       <lImbus> I followed all instructions, all went fine
12.35.13 #       <lImbus> one single problem:
12.35.27 #       <lImbus> Resuming does not work but on On+F1...
12.44.07 #       <lImbus> mhmm. I flashed with rombox...
12.53.50 Join    ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-118-9.VIC.netspace.net.au)
12.54.49 #       <lImbus> mhmm. It does not resume when I flash rockbox.ucl neither
13.03.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> lImbus: no flash issue then...
13.06.32 #       <lImbus> mhkay
13.06.46 #       <lImbus> why not ?
13.07.09 #       <lImbus> it works not with rombox and rockbox flashed, but with On+F1 then ajbrec.ajz
13.07.14 #       <lImbus> ->lunch, damned
13.09.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, got it
13.10.24 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN: what's the problem with the recording file # ?
13.10.57 #       <LinusN> it is a possible cause for fat cache collisions
13.11.04 Join    jyp [0] (~jp@43.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
13.11.15 #       <LinusN> fat accesses from two threads
13.11.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, ok, but fixed by the mutex, too
13.11.26 #       <LinusN> yes
13.11.55 #       <LinusN> gromit`: we have never rejected a gmini port of rockbox
13.12.19 #       <LinusN> the reason we never worked on it was lack of documentation and tools
13.12.39 #       <LinusN> and that none of the core developers had one, thus we had no personal interest in it
13.14.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> none of the "core developers" has an Ondio, neither
13.15.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but we forced a port ;-)
13.17.20 #       <Zagor> you are a core developer, jörg
13.17.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I am?
13.17.33 #       <LinusN> i consider you and jens core developers
13.17.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> assimilated
13.17.42 Join    Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59)
13.17.46 #       <Zagor> hehe
13.18.05 #       * [IDC]Dragon looks for his swedish passport
13.18.16 #       <LinusN> :-)
13.19.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hmm, my girlfriend is blonde
13.19.38 #       <Zagor> gromit`: cvs is no problem, we can host it on rockbox.org if you want a test/development repository. a gmini branch in the main repository is another option.
13.26.49 #       <Zagor> it's very unfortunate if you have gotten the impression that we are not interested in a gmini port.
13.31.33 #       <LinusN> basically, we were just not interested in doing it ourselves
13.34.23 Join    pfavr [0] (~Peter_Fav@213.237.46.232.adsl.ron.worldonline.dk)
13.41.55 #       <crash_> hehe linus
13.42.14 #       <crash_> gromit`: could you send me an tar file with an binary we can try on the gmini
13.42.28 #       <crash_> my friend is here @ work and we would like to test it :)
13.42.32 #       <crash_> crash@blab.la
13.51.01 Quit    ashridah ("sleep")
13.52.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'm firewalled, can somebody with cvs check out ffmpeg for me?
13.52.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> cvs -z9 -d:pserver:anonymous@mplayerhq.hu:/cvsroot/ffmpeg co ffmpeg
13.55.40 #       <Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/ffmpeg/
13.55.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> oh, many thanks
13.55.52 #       <Zagor> or do you want a zip
13.56.04 #       <LinusN> http://linus.haxx.se/ffmpeg.zip
13.56.08 #       <LinusN> :-)
13.56.10 #       <Zagor> hehe
13.56.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> zip is much better
13.56.19 #       <Zagor> i'll remove mine then
13.56.47 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: you should consider setting up a tunnel
13.57.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> else I'll need your - what's it called - wget replacement
13.57.29 #       <Zagor> curl
13.57.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> tunnel will get me in company jail or so
13.59.44 #       <[IDC]Dragon> snapped it, thanks
14.01.38 #       <jyp> crash
14.01.39 #       <jyp> ?
14.04.55 #       <jyp> I wrote a howto for running code on the gmini... Then I can provide you with binary files
14.05.26 #       <jyp> Also I have the rockbock lcd driver working on my gmini
14.05.54 #       <jyp> fully functional except for the scroll thread (no multitask yet)
14.07.29 #       <crash_> ah
14.08.10 #       <jyp> The howto is on the wiki...
14.09.03 #       <jyp> I still can't access the site :/
14.10.16 #       <Zagor> jyp: nice!
14.11.11 #       <jyp> I wrote a little program that checks the keypad status...
14.11.25 #       <jyp> I'm ready to do the keypad driver
14.11.50 #       <jyp> But then I've got to setup timer interrupts etc.
14.12.18 #       <jyp> that is port the kernel...
14.13.05 #       <jyp> Maybe someone has an idea on how to do this incrementally ?
14.15.06 #       <Zagor> what debugging facility do you have?
14.15.14 #       <jyp> none :(
14.15.21 #       <Zagor> ow
14.15.26 #       <jyp> Well we have an emulator*
14.15.44 #       <jyp> that runs Archos firmware
14.15.52 #       <jyp> out of the box
14.15.56 #       <Zagor> ah right. is it complete enough to run your code too?
14.16.01 #       <jyp> yes
14.16.18 #       <Zagor> that's very nice
14.16.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> impressive, what hardware does it emulate?
14.16.44 #       <crash_> so can you send me a binary to test with :)
14.16.55 #       <jyp> everything but dsp & sound
14.16.56 #       <crash_> wanna show my pal rockbox ;)
14.17.21 #       <jyp> crash_, did you find the howto I was talking about ?
14.18.08 #       <crash_> sorry didnt have a look till now
14.18.09 #       <jyp> crash_, what gmini model do you have?
14.18.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> would it be feasible to give that emulator a "standard" debug interface?
14.18.24 #       <crash_> gmini xs 220
14.18.32 #       <crash_> but it's not mine
14.20.11 #       <jyp> crash_, you need to read & understand the howto; you need to setup a hook in the archos firmware
14.20.35 #       <jyp> also, the LCD driver I have is for gmini 120 & SP... It'll probably crash the XS
14.21.04 #       <jyp> [IDC]Dragon, we have a debug interface in the emulator already
14.21.05 #       <crash_> hmm thats bad :/
14.21.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> excellent
14.25.49 #       <Zagor> does the xs even use the same cpu?
14.25.55 #       <jyp> yes
14.25.58 #       <Zagor> ok
14.26.08 #       <jyp> besides LCD, it runs ok in our emulator
14.26.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's a "shrink"
14.26.27 #       <Zagor> ah right, i was thinking of the 400
14.27.28 #       <LinusN> porting the rockbox kernel shouldn't be too hard
14.27.53 #       <jyp> I'll give it a try then
14.29.41 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14.31.28 #       <LinusN> it didn't take me long to port it to the coldfire
14.31.53 #       <LinusN> (the task switch is only 1 instruction) :-)
14.32.03 #       <jyp> ;)
14.32.11 #       <LinusN> m68k rulez :-)
14.35.23 #       <crash_> LinusN: someone posted a screenshot showing your iriver with dir listing
14.35.35 #       <crash_> dont find this anymore, could you tell me where it is ? :)
14.36.18 #       <LinusN> http://bjorn.haxx.se/iriver_display.jpg
14.37.43 #       <crash_> have found it, misticriver wokred ;)
14.37.47 #       <crash_> thx though
14.39.24 #       <dwihno> It's a shame you have to install the iriver manager software to do a firmware upgrade :(
14.40.07 #       <crash_> hm?
14.40.32 #       <crash_> you can just put a new firmware file on the hdd and go into the menu and upgrade firmware
14.41.39 #       <dwihno> crash: I just got an ifp-799, shipped with the 1.24 firmware
14.42.00 #       <dwihno> so to get usb mass storage capability, you have to upgrade the firmware using the iriver software
14.42.17 #       <crash_> sorry i have a h320
14.42.26 #       <crash_> so they seem to differ :/
14.42.28 #       <Zagor> dwihno: well it's for a good cause :)
14.42.38 #       <dwihno> Too bad my USB2 card is at home... filling it using usb1 is slow
14.42.41 #       <dwihno> Zagor: true, true :)
14.43.55 #       <gromit`> re
14.43.59 #       <gromit`> 13:25 < Zagor> +it's very unfortunate if you have gotten the impression that we are not interested in a gmini port.
14.44.21 #       <gromit`> i thought this was due to archos threats
14.44.32 #       <gromit`> and since archos wanted to publish plugins
14.44.41 #       <dwihno> they have threatened the project?
14.44.46 #       <gromit`> a rockbox wasn't such a necessity
14.44.46 #       <Zagor> no, we never took those threats seriously. that was the avos guys.
14.45.07 #       <gromit`> rockbox also ?
14.45.10 #       <Zagor> (and we have never recieved any threats either)
14.45.10 #       <gromit`> atthe beginning
14.45.22 #       <gromit`> when to publish the format of their update
14.45.24 #       <gromit`> ?
14.45.28 #       <gromit`> i may be wrong
14.45.41 #       <gromit`> that's what i've understood from the irc logs
14.45.49 #       <Zagor> archos has never pressured us in any way. they have rather ignored us.
14.46.05 #       <gromit`> when i was looking after a gmini OS fw
14.46.53 #       <Zagor> i suppose you don't remember a rough date/month when that might have been?
14.47.02 #       <gromit`> no
14.47.12 #       <gromit`> i search for it late june
14.47.15 #       <gromit`> +ed
14.47.27 #       <gromit`> but the archive may be quite older
14.48.09 #       <dwihno> Zagor: avos got threats?
14.48.24 #       <Zagor> yeah we've archived irc since 2002-03 :)
14.48.41 #       <crash_> so it seems there is no problem integrating the gmini port into rockbox.org :)
14.48.49 #       <dwihno> It has already been that long? man; I need to start thinking of raising a family ;D
14.49.05 Quit    pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20041007]")
14.49.15 #       <Zagor> dwihno: that's what he said. i never got to see it myself, although i don't really have any reason to doubt him
14.50.12 #       <gromit`> 10.30.22 #       <Bagder> many of us thinks Archos doesn't deserve rockbox
14.50.12 #       <gromit`> 10.30.34 #       <Bagder> so we won't go for another archos player
14.50.12 #       <gromit`> 10.30.39 #       <floof> why ? archos is kick ass !!!
14.50.12 DBUG    Enqueued KICK gromit`
14.50.12 #       <gromit`> 10.30.53 #       <floof> well, my gmini at least
14.50.12 #       <gromit`> 10.30.53 #       <Bagder> if it kicks ass, why do you want Rockbox for it?
14.50.31 #       <gromit`> and many things like this....
14.50.37 #       <gromit`> i just can't find them
14.50.38 #       <Bagder> I still think so
14.50.47 #       <Bagder> but we don't reject any ports becasue of that
14.51.04 #       <Zagor> right, that is why we focus on the iriver instead. but it doesn't mean we reject a port if someone wants to do it.
14.51.58 #       <gromit`> ya
14.52.32 #       <Bagder> and with the iriver work, we are better prepared for such a port
14.52.34 #       <Zagor> i can see how one can read our words like that, but it was not our intention anyway
14.52.56 #       <gromit`> hmm
14.53.01 #       <gromit`> i was on #rockbox in june
14.53.20 #       <gromit`> and i think i was told that since archos provided plugins
14.53.29 #       <gromit`> there would be no rockbox port
14.53.34 #       <Bagder> ?
14.53.39 #       <Bagder> weird reason
14.53.52 #       <gromit`> ya
14.54.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> maybe some tourist said so
14.54.12 #       <gromit`> sorry for the misunderstanding so :)
14.54.25 #       <Bagder> a word of advice: stop assuming things from stuff you read here :-)
14.54.35 #       <gromit`> ya
14.54.47 #       <gromit`> now i know who runs the stuff
14.54.52 #       <gromit`> so it's okay
14.55.51 #       <jyp> alright ;)
14.55.58 #       <crash_> gromit`: i've read the howto
14.56.15 #       <crash_> seems to be no problem, but i dont think we can get this done here at work ;)
14.56.23 #       <jyp> heh ;)
14.57.04 #       <jyp> Anyways first we need information on the 220 lcd
14.57.15 #       <gromit`> ya
14.57.42 #       <crash_> how can i help ?
14.57.43 #       <Zagor> using the simulator you should be able to grab the code sequences and use those to match against data sheets
14.58.16 #       <gromit`> i'll start having a look
14.58.32 #       <gromit`> but i will be quite occupied until jan, the 24th
14.58.40 #       <crash_> and i'll start this evening copying your wiki to rockbox
14.59.11 #       <jyp> ok; that will solve my problem to access it
14.59.18 #       <crash_> yep
14.59.20 #       <jyp> thanks ;)
14.59.23 #       <crash_> np
14.59.29 #       <Zagor> who is hosting donat.org?
14.59.35 #       <Zagor> strath?
14.59.39 #       <jyp> yup
14.59.39 #       <crash_> i'm glad i can do something for rockbox
15.00.01 #       <Zagor> have you discussed moving the wiki with him yet?
15.00.17 #       <gromit`> no news about him since dec 20
15.00.21 #       <gromit`> ://
15.00.32 #       <crash_> but gromit` zagor is right
15.00.41 #       <Zagor> maybe i'm being too cautious, but we've had people feeling stepped on by us before and i'd like to avoid that as far as possible
15.00.50 #       <gromit`> i know :)
15.00.57 #       <gromit`> and i understand 
15.00.59 #       <crash_> i think we should at least wait till "normal" vacation time is over
15.01.06 #       <gromit`> maybe we can wait a few days
15.01.09 #       <crash_> maybe i can start copying to rockbox
15.01.10 #       <gromit`> and see if strath is back
15.01.17 #       <Zagor> sounds like a good idea
15.01.41 #       <crash_> so there would be a copy and peaople only knowing of rockbox see that there is gmini port
15.01.49 #       <jyp> Anyways, the reason is purely technical
15.02.03 #       <gromit`> i think the aim is to have an OS fw and a public explanation of the stuff
15.02.07 #       <jyp> the main developpers can't access his site
15.02.09 #       <gromit`> no matter how and by whom it is done
15.02.10 #       <crash_> yep
15.02.26 #       <jyp> That's extremely annoying for CVS
15.02.35 #       <crash_> but i think the main site for archos oss fw is rockbox, am i wrong ?
15.02.43 #       <gromit`> ya
15.02.53 #       <gromit`> it is the first i found 
15.02.58 #       <gromit`> when i was looking for gmini oss fw
15.03.00 #       <crash_> same here
15.18.27 #       <Bagder> so is there an "official" decision to work on getting rockbox ported to the gmini?
15.18.41 #       <Bagder> if so, it would be cool to mention that on the mailing list
15.18.59 #       <Zagor> who is working on the gmini btw, is it you gromit and jyp or are there more active people?
15.19.15 #       <jyp> it is us
15.19.40 #       <jyp> still hoping for strath return though
15.19.56 #       <crash_> jyp, gromit` as far as i understand it isnt official since strath ghast started it right?
15.20.44 #       <jyp> What is official anyways?
15.21.04 #       <Bagder> only that some gmini guys with clues want to do it
15.21.31 #       <Bagder> I mean, I can't say it'll happen because I won
15.21.35 #       <Bagder> 't make it happen myself
15.22.47 #       <gromit`> hmm
15.23.04 #       <gromit`> my idea is that the way we do it doesn"t matter
15.23.12 #       <crash_> so then it is official cause at least 2 people are working at it actively and are now more motivated since they have "official" support ;)
15.23.26 #       <Bagder> I guess so! ;-)
15.23.29 #       <jyp> yay ;)
15.23.33 #       <gromit`> for my part i just want to have fun with my gmini and to have an os fw
15.23.40 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15.23.40 #       * Bagder waves
15.23.45 #       <Zagor> gromit`: sounds like just the right approach
15.24.08 #       <Bagder> so, what prefix does the cross-compiled gcc you use have?
15.24.08 #       <crash_> gromit`: i understand, sometimes politics seems just useless 
15.24.22 #       <gromit`> "actively" i was quite unactive these times though :)
15.24.29 #       <jyp> We sure could use more people on the project...
15.24.34 #       <crash_> but on the other hand i think there are people out there that where glad to hear from your work :)
15.24.48 #       <Bagder> jyp: announcing this on the list could be one way to attract more people
15.24.53 #       <gromit`> ya
15.24.58 #       <gromit`> we really need more people
15.25.16 #       * crash_ is sorry for missing c coding skills
15.25.28 #       <Bagder> crash_: it is never too late...!
15.25.46 #       <jyp> Yes...
15.26.07 #       <crash_> Bagder: i would like to start with rockbox, but i dont know if this is the right level ;)
15.26.27 #       <Bagder> hehe
15.26.34 #       <crash_> i mean i have coded c++ some time ago, unfortunatly only with mfc
15.26.40 #       <Bagder> plunge in!
15.26.55 #       <jyp> If you announce something, make sure to to duley credit credit strath; so he doesn't feel "stepped on"
15.27.03 #       <Zagor> seriously, writing plugins is a simple way to start getting the feel of rockbox
15.27.14 #       <Bagder> I was more hoping that one of you guys would announce it
15.27.22 #       <jyp> Ha, ok ;)
15.27.32 #       <Bagder> seems more suitable
15.29.06 #       <crash_> Bagder: there is a simulator for rockbox for linux?
15.29.27 #       <crash_> since i sold my jukebox 6k yesterday @ ebay i dont have a real archos device anymore
15.29.36 #       <Bagder> yes there is
15.29.41 #       <crash_> btw 100 euro for a 6 gig device is just crazy
15.29.46 #       <Bagder> it simulates the lowlevel APIs
15.30.04 #       <crash_> have mentioned rockbox in the description, i think this has helped ;)
15.30.14 #       <crash_> ok i'll have a look this eveing
15.30.19 #       <crash_> anything to be aware of?
15.30.28 #       <gromit`> we should wait a few more days
15.30.39 #       <gromit`> maybe his internet connection is down
15.30.48 #       <gromit`> or something like this
15.30.56 #       <Bagder> crash_: pop in here and ask if you run into trouble
15.31.12 #       <gromit`> wa can though start the work on the port
15.31.13 #       <jyp> gromit`, I was thinking next week 
15.31.19 #       <gromit`> ya
15.31.28 #       <jyp> Already started ;)
15.31.57 #       <gromit`> ya
15.32.15 #       <crash_> but copying the wiki should be ok ?
15.32.48 #       <Bagder> what is the prefix of your cross-compiled gcc?
15.32.51 #       <Bagder> calmrisc16-unknown-elf?
15.33.09 #       <gromit`> calmrisc16-unknown-elf ya
15.33.14 #       <Bagder> ok
15.33.24 #       <Bagder> I'll do my share
15.34.10 #       <Bagder> preparing the configure tool for gmini
15.34.14 #       <gromit`> thx
15.35.02 #       <LinusN> gcc 2.95?
15.36.20 #       <jyp> 2.97 (codename: unreleased & fucked up)
15.36.34 #       <gromit`> :)))
15.36.36 #       <Bagder> whoa
15.36.42 #       <jyp> I'm working on the 3.4 or 4.0 update
15.38.26 #       <Bagder> what's the lcd size of the gmini 120 ?
15.38.26 #       <LinusN> 2.97 means no C99 support, right?
15.38.59 #       <jyp> I don't know...
15.39.00 #       <gromit`> 128 x 64
15.39.05 #       <gromit`> and 160 x 160 for the 220
15.39.19 #       <Bagder> I'm adding a basic 120 one first
15.39.33 #       <Bagder> then you fix all my flaws and fix it up better
15.39.39 #       <Bagder> you can even
15.42.11 #       <jyp> what does .icode stands for in rockbox ?
15.42.15 #       <jyp> internal code ?
15.42.39 #       <jyp> I gotta place interrupt code at a fixed address
15.42.51 #       <jyp> I guess I should use that section ?
15.43.12 #       <Zagor> icode is placed in cpu-internal sram
15.43.41 #       <jyp> we have 32k in gmini i think...
15.43.46 #       <jyp> Enough ?
15.43.59 #       <LinusN> we have a section called "vectors" for the irq vectors
15.44.09 #       <Zagor> yes. we have less iram in the sh1
15.44.27 #       <LinusN> 4K
15.44.40 #       <crash_> so guys got to go, se you later :)
15.44.45 #       <jyp> cya
15.44.45 Nick    crash_ is now known as crash_away (~crash@a15167580.alturo-server.de)
15.45.31 #       <dwihno> I'm impressed with the IMP series this far
15.45.52 #       <dwihno> It drives my sennheiser phones better than my archos
15.49.00 #       <Bagder> calmrisc16-unknown-elf-gcc: command not found
15.49.02 #       <Bagder> :-)
15.49.53 #       <jyp> It's not a piece of code you want to run anyways ;)
15.58.24 #       <Bagder> you know how much ram a 120 has?
15.59.03 #       <jyp> 16 Mo ? gromit`  ?
15.59.26 #       <gromit`> dunno
15.59.37 #       <Bagder> ok, I'll use 16 for now
15.59.42 #       <Bagder> doesn't matter very much atm
16.01.05 #       <Bagder> committed
16.01.12 #       <jyp> thanks
16.01.20 #       <Bagder> if you check out rockbox now...
16.01.28 #       <Bagder> you can select archos gmini 120 as target
16.01.35 #       <jyp> cool
16.01.47 #       <Bagder> if you build the simulation version, it builds
16.02.22 #       <jyp> afk for 10 minutes...
16.02.28 Nick    jyp is now known as jyp|away (~jp@43.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
16.18.13 Nick    jyp|away is now known as jyp (~jp@43.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
16.20.00 Part    LinusN
16.29.44 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16.33.36 Join    mecraw__ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2)
16.36.01 Join    methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a43276.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
16.43.05 Join    amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7F1CE.dip.t-dialin.net)
16.43.33 #       <amiconn> hi
16.43.47 #       <Bagder> hej
16.44.03 #       <Quel|away> hola
16.44.04 #       <Quel|away> :D
16.44.29 #       <Quel|away> multilanguage irc channel :D
16.47.17 #       <methangas> hola
16.53.31 #       <lImbus> hi Jens
16.54.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> another Hi Jens!
16.55.02 #       <amiconn> :)
16.59.47 Join    OnlyDeath [0] (~OnlyDeath@C8118116-H230.geniusnet.ro)
17.00.06 #       <OnlyDeath> Who has the language.mix from red 2 game ?
17.00.14 #       <OnlyDeath> . .. i need it quiait fast
17.00.35 Quit    OnlyDeath (Client Quit)
17.01.08 #       <lImbus> yeah guy, I assume you need something else quite fast !
17.02.13 #       <jyp> damn junkies ;)
17.02.44 #       <lImbus> lol
17.03.48 #       <Bagder> this is of course the obvious channel to ask for such files
17.04.16 Join    veteran [0] (veteran@cs662543-207.houston.rr.com)
17.04.33 #       <veteran> nice website guys
17.04.42 #       * veteran is from #ipodlinux http://www.ipodlinux.org
17.05.12 #       <Bagder> any news in ipod land?
17.05.48 Join    courtc [0] (~court@adsl-158-12-170.asm.bellsouth.net)
17.05.50 #       <veteran> trying to get 4g/mini/photo to work
17.07.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ipod is ARM   DSP?
17.07.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ARM plus DSP
17.08.06 #       <veteran> dual ARM, no DSP
17.08.10 #       <veteran> 75mhz ;)
17.08.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah
17.08.29 #       <veteran> who's your web admin?
17.08.44 #       <Bagder> Zagor is the main man, but we are multiple admins
17.09.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> last time I looked at ipodlinux, there was no audio
17.09.42 #       <veteran> wow it's been a while
17.10.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so it's fully useable by now?
17.12.10 #       <veteran> if your mp3s are encoded with CBR
17.12.23 #       <Bagder> heh
17.12.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> rarely
17.12.32 #       <Bagder> otherwise...?
17.12.39 #       <veteran> it's been known to do some interesting slow-mo effects on VBR
17.13.24 #       <Zagor> veteran: which codec are you using?
17.14.02 #       <Zagor> all home-cooked?
17.14.04 #       <veteran> intel IPC
17.14.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> anything wrong with MAD?
17.14.14 #       <veteran> really nasty
17.14.26 #       <courtc> MAD is too slow :p
17.15.09 #       <courtc>  / not optimised enough for our tastes
17.15.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the helix client contains an ARM-optimized mp3 decoder, do you know?
17.15.15 #       <veteran> Zagor - what is the name of that feature request script?
17.15.27 #       <Zagor> it's written by bagder
17.15.44 #       <veteran> very nice
17.16.10 #       <Bagder> thanks
17.16.29 #       <Bagder> the sf trackers need some help
17.16.29 #       <veteran> is it open source? ;)
17.16.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
17.17.12 #       <Bagder> veteran: well, I could offer you a copy ;-)
17.17.34 #       <Bagder> I write too many scripts to have them around for download
17.18.29 #       <Bagder> its a simple 5K perl script
17.18.35 #       <veteran> sure we'd appreciate a copy
17.18.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I thought you meant the mp3 decoder
17.18.54 #       <veteran> does it use mysql?
17.18.59 #       <Bagder> no
17.19.06 #       <Bagder> it uses the XML file downloaded from sf
17.19.13 #       <Bagder> with all tracker data
17.20.00 #       <Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/featlist.txt
17.20.27 #       <veteran> interesting
17.20.53 #       <Bagder> to make this really good, you want to auto download that xml file
17.21.04 #       <Bagder> before running this script on it
17.21.26 #       <veteran> alright so cronjob?
17.21.46 #       <Bagder> yes
17.21.48 #       <Bagder> wait
17.22.34 #       <Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/fetchsf.txt
17.22.38 #       <Bagder> that script downloads it fine
17.22.52 #       <Bagder> make sure you fill in the three top values
17.23.30 #       <Zagor> we/you should probably use the -z flag to curl to avoid downloading the same copy a zillion times
17.23.39 #       <Bagder> yeah
17.23.42 #       <Bagder> and --compressed
17.23.49 #       <Zagor> yeah'
17.24.53 #       <courtc> [IDC]Dragon, looking at it now.. seems promising
17.25.10 #       <courtc> thanks for the heads up :)
17.25.49 #       <Bagder> Zagor: fixing it now
17.27.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> courtc: you're from ipodland, too?
17.28.01 #       <courtc> indeed
17.28.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Invasion!
17.28.36 #       <courtc> heh, we are here to steal your ideas ;)
17.29.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I thought, to bring Rockbox to the Ipod
17.29.53 #       <Zagor> welcome! :-)
17.30.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 2 new platforms in one day!
17.30.49 #       <Zagor> hehe, well i guess an ipod port is not exactly in the works right now. they've sort of opted for another route.
17.31.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> courtc: I remember some profiling data somewhere, it was ~30ish MHz for mp3 decoding
17.31.37 #       <courtc> yea, saw that..
17.32.14 #       <veteran> [IDC]Dragon we are all drooling in #ipodlinux
17.32.23 #       <veteran> much thanks :D
17.32.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> drooling
17.32.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ?
17.32.59 #       <veteran> helix looks very promising for ipodlinux
17.33.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> can't see #ipodlinux from here
17.33.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> is there a log?
17.33.12 #       <courtc> over the helix codec
17.34.07 #       <courtc> http://rainstorm.org/ipod/stats/
17.35.54 #       <Zagor> how much hardware support is there for firewire/usb?
17.36.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> courtc: I see, give me some credit!
17.37.26 #       <courtc> there..
17.37.36 #       * Bagder runs away in search for food
17.38.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ;-)
17.45.49 #       <Zagor> veteran, courtc: what is the difference with g4 that breaks compatibility?
17.45.59 #       <Zagor> 4g, i mean
17.46.14 #       <veteran> http://ipodlinux.org/4g
17.46.26 #       <Zagor> ah
17.51.48 #       <courtc> What decoder does this project use?
17.52.17 #       <Zagor> the current hardware has a hardware decoder
17.52.30 #       <courtc> ah.. that helps :/
17.52.36 #       <Zagor> the iriver is our first sw-decoder platform, and we're currently looking at using libmad
18.06.23 #       <gromit`> i hope gmini will be the second
18.07.57 #       <Zagor> me too
18.10.37 Join    hgb [0] (~hgb@cm-80.111.5.236.chello.no)
18.12.54 #       <Zagor> gotta go
18.12.57 Part    Zagor
18.13.07 #       <hgb> Hmm.  Installing Rockbox onto an Ondio from Linux should be as simple as just unzipping the ZIP file in wherever I mounted the ondio using USB mass storage, right?
18.13.25 #       * hgb must find out if he has 128 FM or SP.
18.13.34 #       <hgb> Most likely FM, I'd say...
18.15.46 #       <lImbus> hi hgb
18.15.54 #       <hgb> Hi.
18.16.04 #       <lImbus> what's written on your ondio frontplate ?
18.16.22 #       <hgb> lImbus: Dunno.  It's at home.
18.16.33 #       <lImbus> has it got a radio ?
18.16.37 #       <hgb> Yep
18.16.44 #       <lImbus> then it's fm
18.16.46 #       <hgb> Ah.
18.16.50 #       <hgb> Righ.t.
18.16.52 #       <lImbus> sp mot probably means "simple player"
18.16.57 #       <lImbus> s/mot/most
18.16.59 #       <hgb> Ok.
18.17.18 #       <hgb> Is there better radio reception with rockbox than with standard firmware?
18.17.31 #       <lImbus> mhmm. don't thinks so.
18.17.32 #       * hgb finds the radio reception to be of far too low quality.
18.17.46 #       <lImbus> i'm not one of the developers
18.17.49 #       <hgb> On the other hand, I'm still running the firmware it came with.
18.17.58 #       <hgb> Which is probably ages old and useless.
18.18.17 #       <lImbus> it depends on the hardware-version. there have been better and worse versions.
18.23.37 #       <hgb> Right.
18.23.59 #       <hgb> Mine has some issues with the batteries as well.  Sometimes they lose connection for a flash, and the thing reboots.
18.24.03 #       <hgb> Annoying.
18.28.17 #       <lImbus> gotta go, cu m8s
18.28.21 Part    lImbus
18.29.45 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18.56.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hgb: there 2 dufferen FM tuners being used
18.56.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/dufferen/different
18.56.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> a bad Samsung one and a better Philips
19.11.04 Join    einhirn [0] (~Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
19.13.12 #       * [IDC]Dragon runs off
19.13.16 Quit    [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
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19.50.34 Join    Zagor [242] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com)
20.00.18 Nick    thegeek_ is now known as thegeek (~thegeek@ti521110a080-0640.bb.online.no)
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20.46.38 Nick    crash_away is now known as crash_ (~crash@a15167580.alturo-server.de)
20.46.47 #       <crash_> someone here to "help" me ?
20.47.07 #       <jyp> if I can
20.47.26 #       <crash_> i just build the simulator from rockbox cvs
20.47.47 #       <crash_> and aksing myself if the simulator can load another firmware like normal?
20.48.07 #       <crash_> by putting archos.mod into archos dir
20.48.13 #       <jyp> 99.9999% chance it won't
20.48.24 #       <jyp> (low estimate)
20.49.01 #       <amiconn> crash_: Nope.
20.49.08 #       <crash_> so, i will change something in source code and build again the rockbox simulator?
20.49.35 #       <amiconn> It's just a simulator that simulates the rockbox UI, not an emulator that is able to run code compiled for the target CPU
20.49.46 #       <crash_> ah i see :)
20.50.09 #       <crash_> so when i change something, i build simulator
20.50.11 #       <crash_> thanks :)
20.55.27 Join    muz [0] (~54091fb6@labb.contactor.se)
20.55.43 #       <muz> hey you know that image of the iriver with the directory listing?
20.56.00 #       <muz> does that mean that the rockbox firmware actually functions on the iriver?
20.56.24 #       <jyp> someone experienced in linker scripts here ?
20.56.53 #       <crash_> muz: linus is coding the bootloader
20.57.08 #       <crash_> its not yet really proted
20.57.20 #       <crash_> but work in progress
20.59.24 #       <muz> i thought the bootloader was done
21.00.15 #       <amiconn> muz: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverPort could be interesting
21.00.16 #       <Zagor> muz: yes, it means nearly all rockbox code works, when ran in gdb using the bdm debugger
21.00.56 #       <Zagor> however we still haven't finished the boot loader, so it requires the bdm hardware debugger which makes it ... limited of use :)
21.01.17 #       <Zagor> jyp: what is your question?
21.01.42 #       <crash_> Zagor: does that mean rockbox will run mostly complete when bootloader is finished and there will only be changes to do which take advantage of irivers capabilities?
21.01.48 #       <muz> so without debuggers it wont work
21.02.16 #       <jyp> Zagor, I have this:
21.02.18 #       <jyp> .data 0x2000: { 
21.02.18 #       <jyp> 	_datastart = .;
21.02.18 #       <jyp> 	*(.data) 
21.02.18 DBUG    Enqueued KICK jyp
21.02.18 #       <jyp> 	*(.rodata) 
21.02.18 #       <jyp> 	_datasize = . - _datastart;
21.02.19 ***     Alert Mode level 1
21.02.19 #       <jyp> 	*(.bss)
21.02.21 #       <jyp> 	} > DRAM
21.02.42 #       <Zagor> crash_: yes, most of it works. no sound yet though.
21.02.50 #       <jyp> but data size is 0x2000 too large
21.03.01 #       <jyp> as if i had _datasize = .
21.04.12 #       <jyp> Mh... I just discovered the SiZEOF() operator...
21.04.21 #       <jyp> I'll give it a try
21.04.55 #       <crash_> Zagor: great, i had expecte after publishing bootloader it would take another long period to whait ;)
21.05.09 #       <crash_> so it seems rockbox for my h3xx comes a bit nearer ;)
21.05.46 #       <muz> heres an irrelevant question: does rockbox support accelerated navigation like the ipod
21.05.50 #       <Zagor> well I do expect it will take a bit of time before it's a worthy replacement for the original firmware
21.06.05 #       <Zagor> muz: define accelerated navigation
21.06.22 #       <muz> like if you hold down a direction the speed is gets higher
21.06.31 #       <Zagor> ok. yes it does.
21.06.40 #       <muz> hey thats sooo cool
21.07.17 #       <Zagor> or actually, it doesn't. we just have a rather quick button repeat rate.
21.07.19 #       <muz> so is it just linus working on the iriver project
21.07.48 #       <amiconn> The button repeat rate *does* increase if you hold longer..
21.07.56 #       <Zagor> no. only linus is working on the boot loader, since he has our only bdm debugger. but there has been lots of other work involved with the iriver port.
21.08.19 #       <Zagor> amiconn: it does? man, i miss all the fun changes :-) 
21.08.33 #       <amiconn> I think that one is quite old...
21.08.42 #       <muz> what exactly is the button repeat rate?
21.09.06 #       <amiconn> We scan for button presses 100 times/sec.
21.09.13 #       <crash_> the seeking speed indeed gets greater the longer u hold the button
21.09.23 #       <amiconn> Repeat kicks in after ~30 ticks (300 msec)
21.09.30 #       <crash_> and u can setup how fast the speed should accelerate
21.09.36 #       <Zagor> crash_: yes, but the seek acceleration is handled specially
21.09.39 #       <muz> wow
21.09.57 #       <Zagor> in fact it even decellerates at the end of the track...
21.09.58 #       <amiconn> Repeat rate starts at 16 ticks (6~6 repeats/sec) and goes up to 5 ticks (20 repeats/sec)
21.10.04 #       <crash_> as i understand muz didnt want to know how it works just if, am i wrong ?
21.10.12 #       <muz> its okay
21.10.16 #       <muz> im ment to be clever neway
21.10.40 #       <crash_> Zagor: but funny u didnt know this *g*
21.10.47 #       <muz> im doing a course in engineering next year 
21.11.06 #       <muz> hopefully i might learn some stuff to help u guys
21.11.51 #       <crash_> just teach urself ;) i'm trying right now, maybe i can be some help some day
21.12.20 ***     Alert Mode OFF
21.14.42 Quit    muz ("CGI:IRC")
21.15.05 #       <Zagor> crash_: my memory is rather bad. guess why I make such an effort to document and log everything? ;-)
21.15.36 #       <Zagor> acceleration was introduced in september 2002... :-)
21.15.45 #       <Quel|away> crash_: zagor is a "granpa"
21.15.47 #       <Quel|away> :D
21.16.04 #       <Quel|away> is spelled that way? i hope so
21.21.53 #       <Zagor> jyp: problem solved?
21.22.20 #       <jyp> well... I don't know
21.22.35 #       <jyp> I think so
21.22.46 #       <jyp> but maybe there's another problem
21.22.52 #       <jyp> I'll give you an update ;)
21.33.11 #       <jyp> ok I think I got it
21.40.15 #       <crash_> Zagor, Quel|away : hehe ;)
21.58.14 #       <jyp> Phew... Got it...
21.58.30 Nick    jyp is now known as LDscriptMastah (~jp@43.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
21.58.30 DBUG    Enqueued KICK LDscriptMastah
21.59.17 Nick    LDscriptMastah is now known as jyp (~jp@43.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
21.59.17 DBUG    Enqueued KICK jyp
21.59.35 #       <Zagor> :)
21.59.47 #       <Zagor> which binutils version are you using?
22.00.00 #       <jyp> the one shipped with our gcc
22.00.21 #       <jyp> GNU objdump 2.10-calmrisc16-010518
22.00.48 #       <Zagor> ooh, vintage :)
22.00.57 #       <jyp> You said it.
22.01.44 #       <jyp> I got calmrisc support ported to the most recent version though
22.01.57 #       <jyp> but it doesn't support disassembly
22.02.36 #       <Zagor> you did? excellent
22.02.39 #       <amiconn> Wargh! Rockbox created a dir that I am unable to delete :(
22.02.53 #       <Zagor> amiconn: ouch
22.03.29 #       <amiconn> Playing around with multivolume, I tried to rename the virtual dir... it created a copy of that dir.
22.03.39 #       <Zagor> oops
22.03.43 #       <amiconn> I can't delete that because of the < and > in it
22.03.54 #       <Zagor> right
22.04.01 #       <Zagor> but rockbox can rename it
22.04.32 #       <amiconn> It's impossible to delete this on rockbox either - because it thinks this is the special dir. Rockbox hangs with the red led lit if I try
22.04.55 #       <Zagor> boot an older version without multivolume code
22.05.35 #       <amiconn> Renaming works.
22.05.49 #       <crash_> jyp: right now i also have trouble loading donat.org
22.05.56 Join    zeekoe [0] (me@vpn006175.vpn.utwente.nl)
22.06.12 #       <jyp> crash_, damn!
22.06.48 #       <Zagor> there appears to be a bad routing problem between donat.org and here. i could reach it from work but not from home. (tried simultaneously erlier today)
22.06.51 #       <amiconn> Zagor: Now that is really strange. I renamed the dir (to "BBB"). I still can't delete or even enter it on the PC
22.07.19 #       <Zagor> does it have a bad bit set, like label or something?
22.09.09 #       <amiconn> Tried to delete it on rockbox - some heavy disk activity, then it hung. Now the partition is f***ed up.
22.09.16 #       <Zagor> whoa
22.10.32 #       <amiconn> Rename really shouldn't try to work across volumes, that's what I wanted to check. It not only does nothing good, it even causes all sorts of trouble
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22.11.11 #       <Zagor> indeed
22.12.00 #       <amiconn> It comes in very handy to have an experimentation device
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22.17.29 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9E34AD2.dip.t-dialin.net)
22.18.00 #       <amiconn> hi again Jörg
22.18.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Hi again
22.18.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> blame me...
22.18.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> volumes have an extra flag. It should be very simple to disable renaming them from the UI
22.18.54 #       <amiconn> I tried FAT16 with all possible cluster sizes, and also placing a fat16 partition beyond 8 GB (LBA area). Everyting works.
22.19.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> great, without any modification?
22.19.43 #       <amiconn> Yes.
22.20.25 #       <amiconn> In fact, rockbox ignores the partition types altogether. I remembered differently, hmm?!?
22.20.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so do I , yes
22.21.01 #       <amiconn> I now have a multivolume partitioning with one fat32 partition and one fat16, trying to do weird things ;)
22.21.31 #       <amiconn> Rename should be completely disabled across volumes.
22.22.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> across?
22.23.09 #       <amiconn> Yes, trying to rename a file in a way that it would have to be copied. The rename function asks for the destination path, so this would be possible to try from the UI
22.24.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> rename lets us change tha path?
22.24.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> s/tha/the
22.24.34 #       <amiconn> Furthermore, the volume check should check the exact name, so /<MMCn> is a volume identifier, but /<MMCn>AA isn't
22.25.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that has illegal chars
22.25.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so /<MMCn>AA is bogus
22.25.27 #       <amiconn> Ah no, the rename function doesn't allow to change the path (as now)
22.25.58 #       <amiconn> Yes, <MMCn>AA is bogus, but the file/fat code doesn't check for illegal chars
22.26.29 #       <amiconn> Argh, crappy player keyboard :-/
22.26.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I guess we can enter them? Hmm
22.27.13 #       <amiconn> Rename gives the old name to edit, so /<MMCn>AA is easy to create, just append AA
22.28.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it shouldn't show the path, just the filename
22.28.15 #       <amiconn> It does.
22.28.28 #       <amiconn> I tried renaming the /<MMCn> dir itself
22.28.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> then we *could* edit the path
22.28.48 #       <amiconn> (or rather /<HD1> as I'm experimenting on the player)
22.29.06 Quit    zeekoe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.29.28 #       <amiconn> It doesn't show the path, but only the name of the item to rename, be it file or dir
22.29.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> again, renaming the volume itself can be easily prevented
22.29.51 Nick    zeekoe2 is now known as zeekoe (me@vpn006175.vpn.utwente.nl)
22.29.53 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22.29.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> with that attribute flag
22.31.09 #       <amiconn> Yes, so this would prevent the danger for now. Disabling rename across volumes completely would be the future safe approach
22.39.15 Quit    zeekoe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22.42.47 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: YOu think we should disable renaming the virtual dirs in the UI part?
22.43.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we have to make the option disappear
22.43.27 Ctcp    Ignored 3 channel CTCP requests in 56 minutes and 59 seconds at the last flood
22.43.27 #       * [IDC]Dragon looks fo the code
22.43.44 #       <amiconn> It may be a good idea to hide the delete option as well.
22.43.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> definitely, yes
22.44.17 #       <amiconn> While delete should work (except for the virtual dir itself of course) it would deleted *everything* in the mounted volume...
22.45.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> could be useful, but we had no root delete in the past
22.45.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which would've deleted rockbox, too
22.46.18 #       <amiconn> I think this may be too dangerous... A user: "Hey, what's this strange <MMC1> directory here? Let's delete it!" Whoops!
22.47.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> onplay() is easy to change
22.49.06 Join    zeekoe [0] (me@vpn006175.vpn.utwente.nl)
22.56.06 #       <amiconn> Trying to delete the virtual dir hangs (after correctly deleting everyting within the mounted volume)
22.58.21 Quit    Zagor ("Client exiting")
22.59.32 Quit    thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23.01.35 #       <amiconn> Grr, mkdir() is not in the api
23.01.54 #       <Bagder> !
23.08.18 #       <ZiRo`5> crash_
23.08.52 Quit    methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- irc client ownage!")
23.10.48 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Totally ot: any news concerning the archos wav codec?
23.11.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no
23.11.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I've also been thinking about a polite way to retrigger
23.12.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> onplay committed
23.13.34 #       <amiconn> I have a check in fat_rename() now. I'll make up a little test plugin that will test all possible cases.
23.13.51 #       <amiconn> The check is actually very simple
23.14.03 #       <amiconn> if (file->volume != dir->file.volume)
23.14.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I don't think it's necessary to bulletproof our internal functions
23.14.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> admit, it's simple
23.19.23 Quit    zeekoe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23.40.07 Join    jyp_ [0] (~jp@237.131-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
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23.53.50 #       <gromit`> re