--- Log for 21.01.105  Server: zelazny.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot_  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 8 days and 11 hours ago

00.00.46 #       <jyp> committed
00.01.09 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: I'm checking for unused LANG (& VOICE) ids. Already found one (not voiced): LANG_FM_BUTTONBAR_EDIT. Could you confirm this?
00.01.14 #       <amiconn> I have no FM unit...
00.01.39 #       <Bagder> jyp: another style nit: the start brace for functions should be below the function name
00.01.54 #       <jyp> ok
00.03.25 #       <jyp> Perhaps http://www.rockbox.org/docs/contributing.html could be updated to mention that
00.04.08 #       <Bagder> it could be more explicit, I agree
00.05.52 Join    midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
00.06.16 #       <jyp> In fat.c ...
00.06.30 #       <jyp> line 1197,
00.07.02 #       <jyp> there's a format string unsupported by the formatter of the firmware, i think
00.07.23 #       <Bagder> yes
00.07.37 Join    LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
00.07.41 #       <jyp> should this be fixed ?
00.07.43 #       <Bagder> and here he comes
00.07.49 #       <quelsaruk> sleep time
00.07.51 #       <quelsaruk> cu!
00.07.57 Quit    quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.1.99 'System Virtue'")
00.08.00 #       <LinusN> jyp: what's the point with the SET_ATA_xxx() macros?
00.08.03 #       <Bagder> I'm not sure what LDEBUGF() is used for
00.08.09 #       <webguest02> the problem wasnt the polarisation!
00.08.12 #       <jyp> heh :)
00.08.16 #       <webguest02> it was my car adapter!
00.08.23 #       <jyp> Setting a register isn't as simple as REG = VALUE
00.08.29 #       <jyp> so I had to change all these into SET_REG(value)
00.08.39 #       <webguest02> first i used the creative jukebox with it..it has ac
00.08.39 #       <LinusN> i know, but why the extra macro level?
00.08.47 #       <webguest02> than my new player...it has dc
00.09.06 #       <LinusN> why not do SET_REG(ATA_xxx, value)?
00.09.08 #       <webguest02> i think that the car adapter only runs with ac
00.10.08 #       <LinusN> i see no point in this:
00.10.10 #       <LinusN> #define SET_ATA_SELECT(v)      (SET_REG(ATA_SELECT,v))
00.10.45 #       <LinusN> (i have done almost exactly the same thing for the iriver ata code)
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00.10.52 #       <jyp> Well, that was an easy way to change it
00.10.54 #       <LinusN> except for the extra macro level
00.10.59 #       <Bagder> I agree with Linus
00.11.08 #       <gromit`> i agree with jyp
00.11.11 #       <gromit`> :)
00.11.17 #       <gromit`> hello
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00.11.28 #       <jyp> hey gromit` ;P
00.11.47 #       <elinenbe_> jyp: nice additions... nice work!
00.12.03 #       <elinenbe_> very impressive... you work quickly!
00.12.09 #       <LinusN> but my macro is called WRITE_ATA_REG() instead :-)
00.12.14 #       <elinenbe_> very impressive... you work quickly!
00.12.37 #       <jyp> heh ...
00.12.47 #       <Bagder> LinusN: did jyp's commit cause much trouble with merging?
00.12.54 #       <LinusN> tons :-)
00.13.03 #       <LinusN> but never mind
00.13.06 #       <jyp> I'm not emotionally attached to these details :P
00.13.22 #       <LinusN> was there a reason for the extra level?
00.14.10 #       <jyp> Actually I hoped to move the SET_ATA_* out of the ifdef
00.14.23 #       <jyp> and keep only one SET_REG macro inside
00.15.36 #       <LinusN> would be a lot better
00.15.49 #       <elinenbe_> LinusN: are you merging iriver code?
00.16.01 #       <LinusN> was just about to when i saw the commit :-)
00.16.19 #       <LinusN> jyp beat me to it
00.17.19 #       <elinenbe_> LinusN: what is forthcoming?
00.17.22 #       <preglow> what iriver code? :VV
00.17.35 #       <LinusN> elinenbe: boot loader
00.17.47 #       <preglow> :-):-):-)
00.18.07 #       <elinenbe_> !!! :) !!! :) !!!!
00.18.15 #       <elinenbe_> ah... now I can put my iriver to use?
00.18.17 #       <elinenbe_> :-)
00.18.29 #       <preglow> LinusN: its done`
00.18.35 #       <preglow> LinusN: retry: it's done?
00.18.45 #       <LinusN> not entirely
00.18.54 #       <LinusN> a few quirks left
00.18.55 #       <preglow> what's left?
00.19.06 #       <LinusN> for one, it doesn't work! :-)
00.19.07 #       <preglow> are these quirks that will devestate my player? :P
00.19.10 #       <preglow> ahahah
00.19.23 #       <preglow> well, that _is_ a bit of a show stopper
00.19.24 #       <LinusN> the lcd init fails, and the rolo isn't correct
00.19.49 #       <LinusN> ...and i have to rewrite a lot of ata code :-)
00.20.04 #       <preglow> how jolly
00.20.06 #       <amiconn> jyp: Is there a reason for changing asm to __asm__ ?
00.20.18 #       <preglow> why, isn't the old code good enough?
00.20.23 #       <jyp> amiconn, gcc/calmrisc chokes on it
00.21.06 #       <elinenbe_> so much development on the Rockbox front these past weeks... sure is exciting!
00.21.48 #       <preglow> i most certainly agree
00.23.23 #       <amiconn> I found 9 LANG ids that are seem to be unused, but not empty & marked as deprecated...
00.23.44 #       <preglow> why would rockbox on irivers need a usb handler, btw? i thought all usb stuff was handled by hardware.
00.25.18 #       <LinusN> preglow: like on the archos jukebox
00.25.37 #       <LinusN> the software needs to give away the access to the hard drive to the usb chip
00.26.03 #       <LinusN> and then wait until the usb is done before "taking" the hard drive again
00.27.07 #       <preglow> won't the usb chip just raise a pin or something when it's connected, so rockbox can just park the drive and twiddle its thumbs?
00.27.23 #       <preglow> or is it more complicated?
00.27.41 #       <LinusN> preglow: are you a programmer?
00.27.59 #       <preglow> LinusN: yes
00.28.13 #       <LinusN> then i thought you would understand
00.28.29 #       <LinusN> yes, it is as "easy" as reading a pin from the usb chip
00.28.53 #       <LinusN> but then rockbox needs to stop all access to the hard drive until the usb chip is done
00.29.06 #       <LinusN> that is done by the usb handler
00.29.23 #       <preglow> aight
00.29.29 #       <LinusN> it broadcasts a USB_CONNECTED message to all threads, telling them to stop
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00.29.57 #       <LinusN> then it awaits the ACK from all threads before giving the drive to the usb chip
00.30.00 #       <preglow> ahh, so it's thread based
00.30.22 #       <preglow> i haven't studied the source too much yet
00.31.18 #       <jyp> LinusN, I've factored out the SET_* macros
00.31.55 #       <LinusN> great
00.32.26 #       <jyp> Doing so for the GET_* is somewhat more tricky
00.33.06 #       <LinusN> commit the set_ for now
00.33.14 #       <jyp> done :P
00.35.34 #       <LinusN> i don't get it, the code is still full of SET_ATA_SECTOR(xxx) etc
00.36.46 #       <jyp> I just made the SET_ATA* definitions machine independant
00.37.43 #       <LinusN> but why can't it be SET_REG(ATA_SECTOR, value) in the code?
00.38.25 #       <jyp> No reason; I just didn't know it was what you wanted
00.38.58 #       <jyp> A single (but clever) search and replace can do it
00.39.02 #       <LinusN> that was the "extra layer" i was talking about
00.39.09 #       <elinenbe_> Linus, is your M3 interview up online?
00.40.29 #       <LinusN> the magazing will be out next week, and i'm not sure it will ever be online
00.42.41 #       <elinenbe_> ah, someone will have to scan it and put it in the wiki :)
00.43.07 #       <jyp> LinusN, since I changed nothing is the "real" ata code,
00.43.48 #       <jyp> perhaps you can just replace the bulk part of ata.c with what you have
00.44.13 #       <jyp> just fixing the WRITE/SET mismatch ?
00.44.43 #       <jyp> (only a name if i understand correctly)
00.45.45 #       <LinusN> sure
00.46.50 #       <jyp> I'm sort of mis-equipped to do the search/replace I was talking about
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00.57.23 #       <amiconn> If I know the exact commit date of a change, is it possible to get a list which other files were changed in the same commit?
00.57.40 #       <LinusN> yes
00.57.53 #       <amiconn> How can I achieve that?
00.58.42 #       <jyp> Diff by date just before & just after ?
01.01.12 #       <amiconn> Ah, I just found by chance what I was looking for. I needed to know which file a moved function came from.
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01.07.47 #       <ripnetUK> Do I smell iRiver progress :)
01.08.27 #       <LinusN> well, soon
01.09.15 #       <ripnetUK> cool... thanks for all your work on this LinusN :)
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01.17.47 #       <jyp> bye all
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07.21.54 #       <ashridah> hmm. apparently the iriver H10 still supports usb storage as a music transfer medium if you get the korean version
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08.04.24 #       <lImbus> hop in
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10.02.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 'morning!
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10.04.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN: how's slicing off the rest of Rockbox working out, for your bootloader?
10.04.12 #       <LinusN> good
10.04.29 #       <LinusN> since the firmware is a library, i can pick only the stuff i want
10.04.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> a similar "emergency Rockbox" would be nice for the first flash image, saving space
10.04.42 #       <LinusN> only that there are a few cross-references i need to handle
10.05.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> all those debug hacks, perhaps?
10.05.25 #       <LinusN> so i define a few dummy functions in the bootloader to prevent some modules from being loaded from the firmware lib
10.05.43 Join    amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7E487.dip.t-dialin.net)
10.05.48 #       <LinusN> like mpeg_stop() being called from various places
10.06.10 #       <LinusN> so i define a dummy mpeg_stop in my bootloaded main.c
10.06.32 Join    bobTHC [0] (~foo@l03m-37-147.d1.club-internet.fr)
10.06.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> will be interesting. Bootbox for Archos would allow to distribute a firmware image with 100% our code
10.06.47 #       <bobTHC> hi folks
10.06.48 #       <LinusN> basically, the bootloader is a new application
10.06.53 #       <LinusN> ho bobTHC
10.07.01 #       <bobTHC> :)
10.07.21 #       <LinusN> bootbox...hmm
10.07.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> doesn't the firmware library carry all unused functions, too?
10.07.36 #       <LinusN> i was thinking about rockboot, but bootbox is better
10.07.52 #       <Bagder> a bootbox is what your shoes is put in when you buy them in a store? :-)
10.08.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it doesn't rock
10.08.16 #       <LinusN> yes, but i don't want to load mpeg.c, because it references so much other code, so the boot becomes very big
10.08.20 #       <Zagor> Bagder: no, it's a storage box for the luggage compartment of your car
10.08.36 #       * Bagder giggles
10.09.08 #       <Zagor> why does every little snippet of code need a separate name?
10.09.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so you have a special firmware lib without mpeg.c
10.09.11 #       <LinusN> "rockboot", some kind of shoes for climbing, right? :-)
10.09.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it needs at least a directory name
10.09.47 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: no, i told you, i define mpeg_stop() in my bootloader, then the linker doesn't load mpeg.o from the firmware lib
10.09.50 #       <Bagder> LinusN: yeps, those boots you have when you carry your bag to collect stones in: the rockbox
10.10.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ok, so the linker is smart enough to eliminate dead code
10.10.20 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: no, it doesn't
10.10.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> now I'm confused
10.10.43 #       <LinusN> it just doesn't load unneeded modules from the library
10.10.54 #       <LinusN> that's the whole point of a library
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10.10.58 Join    pike [0] (pike@c83-249-120-49.bredband.comhem.se)
10.11.13 #       <pike> you probably seen this already? http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501180025.html
10.11.30 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so it eliminated on a file (.o) basis
10.11.53 #       <LinusN> you call it elimination, i call it selective loading
10.12.14 #       <Zagor> i think "bootloader" is a good directory name
10.12.26 #       <LinusN> Zagor: how boring .-)
10.12.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> pike: I like Jenna
10.12.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but don't think it'll influence me buying
10.13.36 #       <Zagor> pike: Reigncom?
10.13.59 #       <pike> I dunno
10.14.12 #       <LinusN> time to reboot
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10.14.37 #       <Zagor> aha. "ReignCom produces portable music players under the iRiver brand name."
10.14.59 #       <Zagor> i didn't know that
10.15.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> now you know what's behind it
10.15.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and whom to email
10.18.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Bill Gates presented the H10 at the CES...
10.19.27 Quit    Trevmar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10.21.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> iRiver europe is in Germany (Eschborn)
10.23.49 #       <pike> btw, has iriver contacted any of the teammembers?
10.24.37 #       <Zagor> no
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10.26.41 #       <Bagder> perhaps they sent a flash and it got caught in the spam filter! ;-P
10.26.59 #       <Zagor> haha
10.27.00 #       <Bagder> flash seems to be their preference
10.27.31 #       <Zagor> indeed. flashblock is a nice forefox extension.
10.27.48 #       <LinusN> blocks the entire iriver site
10.28.05 #       <Bagder> I don't have any plugin for flash installed
10.30.40 #       <bobTHC> :)
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11.10.19 #       <amiconn> Zagor: The stuck-in-dir bug is still there :( I consistently get this when resuming a playlist, let it play a number of songs, and then it either ends or I stop it.
11.20.06 #       <Zagor> yeah i saw the mail
11.23.31 #       <Lynx_> how much "ram" does the recorder have?
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11.31.52 #       <bobTHC> ouch big split :/
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12.23.59 #       <LinusN> Lynx_: 2Mbytes
12.26.57 #       <Lynx_> LinusN: hmm, that would fit my whole database for faster browsing..:)
12.27.19 #       <LinusN> while the music is playing? i think not
12.27.47 #       <Lynx_> LinusN: no, but after start for making a playlist. well, just a thought.
12.28.09 #       <Zagor> switching buffers would mean more spinup, not less
12.28.59 #       <Lynx_> i thought load db once, assemble playlist, unload db, start playing. but it's not really practicable, i see that.
12.29.26 #       <Zagor> it would be practical for that specific case, but only then
12.29.45 #       <Lynx_> btw, are there any plans to inclue the genre tag in the db?
12.29.49 #       <Zagor> yes
12.30.00 #       <Zagor> genre and year will be added later
12.30.14 #       <Lynx_> Zagor: that's what i mean, it's too specific a task to justify including it as a feature
12.30.22 #       <Lynx_> nice ;)
13.19.40 #       <NibbIer> this musicbrainz is amazing
13.20.55 #       <Lynx_> NibbIer: cool, eh?
13.21.14 #       <NibbIer> it does analyse the music?
13.21.51 #       <Lynx_> NibbIer: yes, i don't know exacly how though as i'm not a programmer, but i always imagine it calculates something like a hash on the files.
13.22.32 #       <NibbIer> well i use some linux script at the first place, because its much faster, but the stuff this one does not get.... mb does a good job with this
13.24.18 #       <Lynx_> hmm, actually the system uses the acoustic features of the files, works also with ogg and wav
13.25.18 #       <Lynx_> NibbIer: how do you use it under linux?
13.29.25 #       <NibbIer> i use mb under windows
13.29.38 #       <NibbIer> my mp3s are on a linux server
13.29.46 #       <NibbIer> so i sort them using mp3cddb.pl
13.29.56 #       <NibbIer> and the rest with mb using the samba share/windows
13.30.31 #       <Lynx_> ok...
13.41.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (OT) hey gurus, does somebody know of a C   to C converter?
13.41.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> C plusplus I mean
13.41.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the stupit CGIIRC always eats 'plus' characters
13.41.54 #       <Zagor> i would be scared if i ever saw one :)
13.42.12 #       <Zagor> just imagine the C code it would produce. brrr.
13.42.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> as long as a C compiler understands it, I'm fine
13.42.37 #       <Zagor> come to think of it, the first c++ compilers were non-native and did produce c code. search for "cfront"
13.43.29 #       * [IDC]Dragon googles
13.43.36 Join    Medaglia [0] (Taxi@oslo-dhcp-248-180.bluecom.no)
13.50.36 Join    El_Barto2 [0] (firecreepe@www.e-spirit.de)
13.50.39 #       <El_Barto2> hi
13.51.01 #       <El_Barto2> do you know what voltage the achroch recorder 20 has?
13.51.09 #       <El_Barto2> dc?
13.52.32 #       <Zagor> has? you mean wants for charging?
13.53.14 #       <dwihno> 9v
13.53.18 #       <dwihno> center tip positive
13.53.37 #       <dwihno> Otherwise, 4,8v
13.53.45 #       <El_Barto2> not voltage ...cant explain it :)
13.53.49 #       <El_Barto2> dc or ac? ;9
13.54.02 #       <dwihno> ac/dc! :)
13.54.55 #       <El_Barto2> ?
13.55.06 #       <El_Barto2> cant be ;)
13.55.29 #       <El_Barto2> the input schould be dc right?
13.56.41 #       <Zagor> yes
13.57.00 #       <Zagor> you can use any voltage from 9 to 12. i use 12 myself, it speeds up charging a bit.
13.57.18 #       <dwihno> Zagor: You don't harm the charging circuits by using 12v?
13.59.01 #       <El_Barto2> and would it be better to use 2,3A batteries?
13.59.22 #       <El_Barto2> how much longer would than the player play?
13.59.55 #       <Zagor> a bit :)
14.00.21 #       <El_Barto2> hehe
14.02.16 #       <LinusN> to be safe, either use the original charger, or a regulated 12V
14.02.34 #       <LinusN> r e g u l a t e d
14.03.53 #       <El_Barto2> and how much Ampere does the original charger have?
14.04.10 #       <LinusN> 600mA
14.04.27 #       <LinusN> all this is in the FAQ
14.06.47 #       <El_Barto2> faq on rockbox site?
14.06.51 #       <LinusN> yes
14.06.53 #       <El_Barto2> ok
14.06.54 #       <El_Barto2> thx
14.07.04 #       <LinusN> the battery faq, to be precise
14.07.08 #       <El_Barto2> ;)
14.11.01 ***     No seen item changed, no save performed.
14.14.14 Quit    aliask ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
14.22.49 #       <El_Barto2> an how much Ampere does the player need?
14.23.01 #       <El_Barto2> i think more than 600mA right?
14.23.32 #       <El_Barto2> the archos recorder 20..
14.25.51 Join    Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
14.38.37 #       <LinusN> El_Barto2: that's also in the faq, the original is 600mA
14.39.09 #       <El_Barto2> thats what the charger gives you
14.39.17 #       <El_Barto2> but i think the player needs more
14.39.31 #       <LinusN> why do you think that?
14.39.44 #       <El_Barto2> cause you cant run the player without batteries..
14.39.58 #       <Bagder_> you can never do that
14.40.08 #       <El_Barto2> i know ;)
14.40.19 #       <LinusN> in fact, you can, but then you need a lot more power
14.40.32 #       <LinusN> more that 1A
14.40.38 #       <El_Barto2> thats what i wanted to know ;)
14.40.39 #       <LinusN> to spin up the hard drive
14.40.50 #       <El_Barto2> so the player needs more than 600 mA ;)
14.41.11 #       <LinusN> not to charge, but to run
14.41.30 #       <El_Barto2> that exactly i wanted to know ;)
14.41.42 #       <LinusN> to pe precise, the _hard drive_ needs that much
14.41.45 #       <El_Barto2> but how much i cant find nowhere
14.42.02 #       <LinusN> that's probably because few people have cared to find out
14.42.11 #       <El_Barto2> hehe :)
14.43.13 Quit    Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14.43.27 Nick    Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
14.43.32 #       <Zagor> LinusN: don't you still need to shortcut the battery connectors? I know I had to do that to run my player without batteries.
14.43.32 #       <El_Barto2> so would it be possible to connect an external current adpater with more than 1 A to run the player without batteries?
14.44.24 #       <El_Barto2> but i you shortcut it the player cant charge the batteries!
14.44.48 #       <Zagor> uh, yeah. i wanted to run WITHOUT batteries
14.44.50 #       <El_Barto2> or do you use an flexible bridge?
14.45.03 #       <El_Barto2> like a jumpe ;)
14.45.15 #       <El_Barto2> jumper
14.45.38 #       <Zagor> i don't understand what you want. do you want to run with or without batteries?
14.45.44 #       <El_Barto2> both ;)
14.46.01 #       <El_Barto2> like with my creative jukebox ;)
14.46.08 #       <El_Barto2> an all other normal devices..
14.46.10 #       <El_Barto2> and
14.46.28 #       <Zagor> please explain more. you are talking in riddles.
14.46.32 #       <Bagder> most devices have the batteris in
14.46.36 #       <El_Barto2> im german sorry ;)
14.46.37 #       <Bagder> at least those I have
14.47.33 #       <El_Barto2> its also a bit strange that you first have to boot the player and then plug in the charger..
14.47.45 #       <Bagder> I don't
14.47.59 #       <El_Barto2> otherwise you cant use it,if you first connect the charger..
14.48.11 #       <Bagder> I can
14.48.14 #       <El_Barto2> how?
14.48.18 #       <Bagder> press on
14.48.33 #       <El_Barto2> thats what im talking about..
14.48.41 #       <Bagder> no, you said it doesn't work
14.48.44 #       <Bagder> I say it does work
14.48.50 #       <El_Barto2> you first have to start the player with the normal batteries
14.49.02 #       <El_Barto2> and than you have to connect the charger..
14.49.07 #       <Bagder> no
14.49.07 #       <LinusN> wrong
14.49.16 #       <El_Barto2> ?
14.49.19 #       <Bagder> El_Barto2: if you don't read, then don't ask
14.49.24 #       <LinusN> iinsert the charger and then press on to use it
14.49.43 #       <El_Barto2> than ther comes the charing screen
14.49.47 #       <El_Barto2> and i can do nothing
14.49.47 #       <Bagder> NOOOOO
14.49.48 #       <LinusN> you just have to hold ON long enough
14.49.55 #       <Zagor> or enable car mode
14.50.00 #       <El_Barto2> ah ;)
14.50.01 #       <Zagor> then you won't get the screen at all
14.50.09 #       <LinusN> i guess he isn't using rockbox
14.50.14 #       <Zagor> aha
14.50.16 #       <El_Barto2> thatsthe problem!!
14.50.23 #       <El_Barto2> i cant flash the chip!
14.50.23 #       <LinusN> El_Barto2: no
14.50.25 #       <Bagder> bah
14.50.40 #       <El_Barto2> so first the original firmware starts!
14.50.43 #       <LinusN> you can still push ON to start the player
14.50.44 #       <Bagder> El_Barto2: rockbox doesn't have to be flashed
14.50.53 #       <Bagder> it still works that way
14.51.01 #       <El_Barto2> ok...i will belive you ;)
14.51.02 #       <El_Barto2> thx
14.51.14 #       <El_Barto2> i damged the player..so i cant test it ;)
14.51.15 #       <LinusN> insert the charger, and then push on for a few seconds
14.51.34 #       <El_Barto2> wrong polarisation :(
14.51.49 #       <El_Barto2> no the batteries cant charge
14.51.53 #       <El_Barto2> now
14.51.57 #       <LinusN> so you need to replace a voltage regulator
14.52.08 #       <LinusN> the MC34063A
14.52.09 #       <El_Barto2> or send it back ;)
14.52.52 #       <El_Barto2> can i insert a part,which doesnt allow to use wrong polarisation?
14.55.10 #       <El_Barto2> i cant understand that they doesnt build it in...
14.55.21 #       <El_Barto2> it an easy way to damage the device!
14.55.25 #       <El_Barto2> its
14.57.03 #       <LinusN> a simple diode would do
14.57.38 #       <El_Barto2> tell it the devolpers ;)
14.57.51 #       <LinusN> i will, if i ever meet them
14.58.32 #       <El_Barto2> hehe :)
14.58.48 #       <El_Barto2> and where should the diode be solder?
15.00.21 Quit    ashridah ("sleep")
15.01.53 #       <LinusN> in series with the D/C connector + wire
15.14.15 #       <dwihno> (ot) has anyone tested pci-express gfx cards under *nix?
15.16.32 Quit    MooMaunder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
15.17.16 #       <dwihno> or any newer ati card for that matter
15.18.33 #       <LinusN> not yet
15.18.34 #       <Bagder> I don't
15.18.47 #       <LinusN> will do on my new pc
15.19.14 #       <LinusN> but it is a geforce
15.19.29 #       <Zagor> pci-express isn't that new, i would be very surprised if there is any problem
15.25.24 #       <dwihno> I'm going to get a new box in a couple of months
15.25.37 #       <dwihno> So, for performance, I'd like a pci-e gfx board
15.26.08 #       <dwihno> the nvidia binary driver is ok, but I want an ati board
15.26.36 #       <El_Barto2> ok..thx for your support!
15.26.39 #       <El_Barto2> see you ;)
15.26.41 #       <El_Barto2> bye
15.26.53 Quit    El_Barto2 ()
15.28.14 #       <dwihno> However, it would be nice with working xorg drivers instead of being forced to use some binary driver :/
15.28.35 #       <Bagder> buy another brand! ;-)
15.29.57 #       <Zagor> you only need the binary nvidia drivers if you want to play 3d games in linux.
15.30.13 #       <dwihno> But what if I want an ATI card?
15.30.20 #       <Zagor> dunno about those
15.30.47 #       <LinusN> oh, i thought you always needed the binary drivers
15.31.13 #       <Zagor> LinusN: no, the x.org code works fine for 2d
15.31.41 #       <LinusN> nice
15.33.19 #       <dwihno> I don't want to buy a nvidia card just to get xorg support :/
15.33.40 #       * Bagder uses a matrox card
15.33.41 #       <LinusN> i didn't know that ati was so much better
15.33.57 #       * LinusN has a Matrox G400
15.34.15 #       <Zagor> dwihno: search google, ask #xfree86. these are most likely well-documented things
15.34.39 #       <Zagor> LinusN: they aren't. at least nvidia still holds the speed crown afaik.
15.37.58 #       <dwihno> They do?
15.38.02 #       <dwihno> Hm.
15.38.41 #       <Zagor> yeah, last i read. but unless you plan on buying the very fastest card existing, that doesn't matter much
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15.43.20 Join    R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@83.69.98.234)
15.45.04 #       * dwihno checks with toms hardware
15.46.24 Quit    webguest40 ("CGI:IRC")
15.47.44 #       <dwihno> Damn... Too many graphic cards available
15.48.35 Quit    methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it")
15.48.52 #       <Bagder> yeah, they should only make one ;-)
15.49.57 #       <Lynx_> just buy a mac ;)
15.52.45 #       <LinusN> ?Too many gfx cards error
15.55.30 #       <dwihno> :)
15.55.41 #       <dwihno> The more expensive - the more betterer :)
15.56.06 #       <LinusN> nice engrish there ;-)
15.56.14 #       <Bagder> if you really need to playe the latest 3D games, yes
15.56.18 #       <Bagder> otherwise, no
15.56.30 #       <Bagder> they all have like 32 fans nowadays
15.56.40 #       <Bagder> vacuum cleaner sound built-in
15.57.05 #       <dwihno> I don't want that sound! :(
15.57.23 #       <Zagor> headphones are mandatory for modern games :)
15.59.32 #       <Zagor> dwihno: shop around a bit, some manufacturers make passively-cooled cards nowadays.
15.59.53 #       <Zagor> example: http://www.gamepc.com/images/labs/rev-gwsfx-boxLG.jpg
15.59.58 #       <LinusN> but not for the latest and the greatest ones
16.00.05 Quit    einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16.00.16 #       <bobTHC> Leadtek WinFast PX6200 TC TDH supporting 256MB but in PCI express
16.00.16 #       <Zagor> pretty late&great actually
16.00.30 #       <LinusN> for old guys like you, yes
16.00.42 #       <Zagor> the really latest ones cost more than your computer anyway, so few people are really interested in those
16.01.07 #       <dwihno> ~2000 SEK is a reasonable price to pay
16.01.11 #       <dwihno> *checks komplett.se*
16.02.24 #       <dwihno> are pci-e slots compatible with standard pci cards?
16.02.30 #       <LinusN> no
16.03.09 #       <bobTHC> ^no fan, passive , dual screen , cheap.... 90€ : http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_px6200_tctdh256_1.html
16.04.24 #       <bobTHC> but for nux world, nvidia driver are not really "stable"
16.04.30 #       <Zagor> suspiciously small heatsink
16.04.44 #       <bobTHC> :)
16.04.53 #       <Zagor> bobTHC: as i said, you only need the nvidia drivers if you plan on playing 3d games in linux. most people don't.
16.05.17 #       <dwihno> bobTHC: I actually run the nvidia binary driver on my freebsd-laptop... works really great actually!
16.05.41 #       <bobTHC> your right but if dont want play games, the matrox G400 is always in race ;)
16.05.50 #       <LinusN> i run it on my laptop too
16.06.02 #       <LinusN> (the binary driver)
16.06.23 #       <Zagor> bobTHC: yeah. how many 3d games do you play linux :)
16.07.43 #       <bobTHC> ure right nothing to add ;)
16.08.17 Quit    ze ("here goes a big mess")
16.09.29 #       <dwihno> GeForce 6800 looks pretty neat
16.10.04 Part    LinusN
16.11.03 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16.11.08 #       <Zagor> yeah, and the great "hair dryer" sound is included at no extra charge
16.11.42 #       <dwihno> It is? Ah, I thought I had to pay extra for that :)
16.12.06 #       <bobTHC> the only thing to use hi-end GFX card with linux is to do 3d rendering or to use Fvwm2 in xtra hi res....
16.13.20 #       <dwihno> If I'm going to shove a larger amount of money into a new computer, it would feel a bit stupid not arming it with a "worthy" graphics board
16.13.23 #       <Zagor> afaik fvwm2 is 2d-only
16.14.30 #       <bobTHC> yes but transparence and all kind of little thing use th GFX powa
16.15.05 #       <bobTHC> and with "old card " the desktop is not very useable...
16.15.36 #       <Zagor> ?
16.17.30 #       <Zagor> i can't find anything on fvwm.org that says they are doing transparency in the gpu instead of the cpu
16.20.04 #       <bobTHC> me too... but i keep the faith ;)
16.23.09 #       <bobTHC> i has ear that from a fvwm user who change gfx card and who have speed improvement . but i never check the site before this day to verify...
16.23.43 #       <Zagor> well 2d speed differs between cards too. especially if you switch bus speed.
16.25.26 #       <bobTHC> oki so i change my sentence : the only thing to use hi-end GFX card with linux is to do 3d rendering
16.25.55 #       <bobTHC> ;)
16.27.28 #       <Zagor> :)
16.28.44 Quit    R3nTiL ()
16.37.57 Join    Trevmar [0] (~trevor@ca-agoura-cuda2h-53.ventca.adelphia.net)
16.38.09 #       <Trevmar> Jorg,
16.38.53 #       <Trevmar> Jorg, I am trying to get the Ondios to take a Flash boot. Does the LCD header mod replce the need to change those pull-up pull-downs?
16.40.00 #       <Trevmar> I have a rev 2.2 FM board, and it doesn't have a header for the serial port pullups. I also figured maybe alll I need is a higher current pull-down on the serial port buffer/inverts?
16.40.11 Part    Zagor
16.44.35 Join    mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2)
16.50.20 Quit    Trevmar ()
16.53.08 Quit    bobTHC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16.54.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> oh, Trevor missed me
16.55.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or is this a net split?
16.57.29 Join    ze [0] (ze@adsl-63-205-41-232.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
17.09.16 Quit    Schnueff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17.34.19 Quit    Lynx_ (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it")
17.38.22 Join    Trevmar [0] (~trevor@ca-agoura-cuda2h-53.ventca.adelphia.net)
17.38.34 #       <Trevmar> jorg, are you around?
17.39.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> now I am
17.39.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> btw, it's 'oe' if you have no 'ö'
17.39.56 #       <Trevmar> I am about to implement your flash boot over the next few days. My analysis of the three ondios after replacing their power supply chips is that there is something drawing a lot of current intermittently
17.40.13 #       <Trevmar> I think maybe the BGA chip might have problems, don't know
17.40.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> of which I don't think it's the program flash
17.40.44 #       <Trevmar> immediately after soldering the boards all 3 behaved fine, but as the boards colled they (reversibly this time) started drawing 200mils at poweron
17.40.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are they working?
17.41.02 #       <Trevmar> sorry joerg
17.41.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> boards?
17.41.40 #       <Trevmar> none working, one stays powered up at 40ma after the on switch is pressed
17.41.58 #       <Trevmar> boards = ondios
17.42.05 Join    Spida_ [0] (Spida@pD9FFA3E9.dip.t-dialin.net)
17.42.16 #       <Trevmar> so I am going to try and flash the low current well-behaved one
17.42.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you're beginning to pile up an Ondio junkyard ;-)
17.42.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> try reading it out first
17.42.52 #       <Trevmar> so I have a question - does the LCD jumper patch replace the need to change that pull-up to pull-down?
17.43.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> jumper patch? you mean my modified strip?
17.43.25 #       <Trevmar> I have a rev 2.2 boards and there is no header near the headphone jack
17.43.32 #       <Trevmar> modified strip yes
17.44.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that's very difficult to make, and requires a sacrificed LCD
17.44.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I had a broken one
17.44.24 #       <Trevmar> but what is its function?
17.44.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> pull 3 LCD lines low
17.44.35 #       <Trevmar> same as pull-up pull-down mod?
17.44.57 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, just convenient to apply once made
17.45.12 #       <Trevmar> wonderful, thanks. I will do it that way.
17.45.23 #       <[IDC]Dragon> with the strip?
17.45.26 #       <Trevmar> (got plenty of spare displays etc right now -LOL
17.45.32 #       <Trevmar> with the strip
17.45.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> NOOOO
17.45.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> other people are desperate for an LCD
17.46.05 #       <Trevmar> I am desperate for a working Ondio again LOL
17.46.23 #       <Trevmar> I thought I might be able to do it without wrecking the LCD
17.46.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you can tap the 3 lines at their pullup
17.46.51 #       <Trevmar> can't find the pullup
17.46.58 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or even at the CPU, but finer pith there
17.47.00 #       <Trevmar> I have rev 2.2 FM board
17.47.10 Quit    Spida (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17.47.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's under the tuner daughterboard
17.47.41 #       <Trevmar> oh - UNDER the daughter board - OK I will look again :)
17.47.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> look at my wiki pics
17.48.00 #       <Trevmar> your wiki needs to use the word UNDER :)
17.48.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> are you facing the wiki page?
17.48.22 #       <Trevmar> Wiki pics, you man the link from the wiki to your pics?
17.48.33 #       <Trevmar> just a moment, I will bring it up
17.48.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome?topic=ArchosOndio
17.49.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> look at the last picture, my Ondio without the tuner
17.49.19 Join    jyp [0] (~jp@210.197-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
17.50.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> there is a quad resistor array close to the top edge, the small black thing
17.50.41 #       <Trevmar> OK, found that picture
17.50.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (with 8 pins)
17.50.59 #       <Trevmar> OK, see the pullup
17.51.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> the top of it is all Vcc
17.51.32 #       <Trevmar> yes, heavily connected to the copper
17.51.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no, I think there's a trace going away from it
17.52.02 #       <Trevmar> let me go get one of the Ondios I have..just a moment
17.52.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> with the recorder models, I've cut that trace and installed a switch to apply eithe Vcc or Gnd to the pull array
17.52.59 #       <Trevmar> OK, I see it now. It is actually easy to find. I was looking for it on the daughter board
17.53.20 #       <Trevmar> I understand your wiki instruction now.
17.53.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> feel free to improve them
17.53.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that's what a wiki is about...
17.53.51 #       <Trevmar> So it is optional to EITHER hack the display jumper or cut/jumper that trace?
17.54.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or tap the lines somewhere else and pull them low
17.54.27 #       <Trevmar> OK, I will make (minor) changes to wiki after I get something going :)
17.54.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how about the RS232 part?
17.55.30 #       <Trevmar> OK, I get it  now, thanks. Was going to use a hardware serial inverer circuit
17.56.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you don't have that USB converting cable yet?
17.56.59 #       <Trevmar> the cable had a blank circuit board inside the little box :)
17.57.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> huh?
17.57.13 #       <Trevmar> but the USB plug will come in handy :)
17.57.29 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's no serial converter?
17.57.36 #       <Trevmar> inside that connecter box there was just a straight through connection, no electronics
17.57.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> :-(
17.57.48 #       <Trevmar> no serial converter there
17.58.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'm sorry for my bad advise
17.58.32 #       <Trevmar> no problems, I will use an NS3906 (I think thats the right one, anyway the open-collector inverter thingy IC I used to use 20 years ago for this type of function -LOL
17.59.01 #       <Trevmar> no, your advice was fine, don't woory - this is development (dort of)
17.59.06 #       <Trevmar> sort of
17.59.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> just don't apply 12V
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17.59.30 #       <Trevmar> yup, and INVERT the signal in the translator was th emessage I got
17.59.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but there are cellphone cables with such a converter
18.00.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I bought a stock
18.01.15 #       <Trevmar> OK, thanks, I will do all that and see if I can revive any. But I did suspect the soldering under that BGA - I had a lot of trouble when I was using those packages. It was strange how the hot board behaved OK but it went to high currents as it cooled. At least the new power supply chips don't seem as fragile as the original ones in the Ondio production (date code was 1999)
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18.01.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amazing that you got them
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18.02.12 #       <Trevmar> I just prdered them from Digikey $5.80 each and they arrived two days later :)
18.02.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> wouldn't it be cheaper and less hassle to buy 3 new Ondios?  ;-)
18.03.24 #       <Trevmar> can't get the ondios at the moment. Ebay's auctions of them have dried up :(
18.03.53 #       <Trevmar> But you are correct - less hassle, but less fun too :(
18.03.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> as soon as we get something going, the hardware is in short supply :-(
18.04.35 #       <Trevmar> besides, I like a challenge, and these are certainly a challenge -LOL
18.05.02 #       <Trevmar> OK, thankd joerg, will report back when I get more data or if I get one working :)
18.05.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you can test the serial converter by making a loopback, and typing into a terminal program, but you probably know
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18.05.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you'd need 3V on the other side for an idle line
18.05.44 #       <Trevmar> ah, yes, PROCOMM used to be the terminal program of choice. I wonder if that runs under Windows ? LOL
18.06.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I use TeraTerm
18.06.12 #       <Trevmar> for 3V I was going to use a pull-up and open-collector inverter chip
18.06.22 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's small, free, and does what it should
18.06.29 #       <Trevmar> Ok, will try it
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18.07.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Microsoft HyperTerm works, too, but is cumbersome
18.07.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> you never know if the terminal plays tricks with you, or the hardware
18.07.40 #       <DMJC-L> um.. anyone know if you can find your iriver's serial number from a different location?
18.07.48 #       <DMJC-L> or is the sticker on the player the only one?
18.07.54 #       <DMJC-L> if so I'm boned..
18.08.37 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no idea
18.10.46 #       <DMJC-L> I think I found a copy of it on the box..
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22.35.57 #       <jyp> hey
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22.50.51 #       <amiconn> Any gnu make/ makefile expert here?
22.57.57 #       <jyp> I guess i can give a hand
22.58.39 #       <amiconn> I'm currently trying to get the compilation of the /firmware dir right, with the revived memset.c and memcpy.c.
22.58.49 #       <jyp> ah, good ;)
22.59.07 #       <amiconn> Now there are both memset.c and memset.S (and memcpy.c and memcpy.S as well)
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22.59.27 #       <jyp> I can feel what this is leading to ...
22.59.37 #       <amiconn> The generation of the dependency file with the SOURCES file seems to be correct.
22.59.54 #       <jyp> but since the target is based on .o files ...
23.00.13 #       <amiconn> For the jukebox architectures, it should use the .S files, and there are no implicit rules in the makefile.
23.00.27 #       <amiconn> However, it uses the .c variants...
23.00.53 #       <jyp> implicit rules are in make.inc, right ?
23.01.08 #       <amiconn> I just found where this comes from - there is an obscure "make.inc" file from the /tools dir.
23.01.31 #       <amiconn> I don't know what this is good for though. ????
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23.01.58 #       <jyp> I'm afraid there's no easy way to let you choose between the .S or .c file based on implicit rules
23.02.47 #       <amiconn> Yeah - but the firmware makefile doesn't use implicit rules, and doesn't need to, iiuc...
23.03.04 #       <jyp> It does via make.inc
23.03.39 #       <amiconn> Yeah. I'll try to leave this out and see what happens...
23.04.50 #       <amiconn> ..it doesn't work :(
23.06.00 #       <jyp> yup, the implicit rules are used
23.07.30 #       <amiconn> I thought all rules were defined by the "-include $(DEPFILE)" at the very bottom. It seems that I am wrong....
23.07.37 #       <jyp> I'm afraid the only way is to rename of the version
23.07.54 #       <jyp> I'm afraid the only way is to rename one of the versions
23.08.37 #       <jyp> DEPFILE only contains dependencies to .h files iiuc
23.09.25 #       <amiconn> Hmm. I think renaming destroys the "logic": Have xyz.S (optimized) and xyz.c (plain), and decide in SOURCES which one to use.
23.09.55 #       <jyp> Yup ...
23.10.03 #       <jyp> But here's how it works ...
23.10.58 #       <jyp> both .S and .c are replaced by .o and given as dependencies for librockbox.a
23.11.15 #       <jyp> (lines 16 & 17)
23.11.27 #       <amiconn> Yes, understood
23.12.38 #       <jyp> After that chosing between the .c or .S source is based only in the order of implicit rules in the Makefile
23.13.45 #       <jyp> There are certainly solutions that do not involve renaming
23.14.00 #       <jyp> but these will be overly complicated
23.14.07 #       <jyp> imho
23.22.43 #       <amiconn> Hmm. Now I need a method to solve this problem.
23.23.24 #       <amiconn> Either rename one of the files, or make a sub-dir to move asm optimized stuff to. ? ?
23.23.29 #       <amiconn> Bagder?
23.23.40 #       <Bagder> I'd say rename
23.24.07 #       <Bagder> its easy to change if we figure out a different way
23.24.22 #       <amiconn> Any sugestions on a name pattern, and which one to rename? (I think I should rename the .S variants)
23.25.18 #       <amiconn> Renaming is cumbersome with cvs... as is moving into another dir.
23.25.30 #       <Bagder> yes
23.26.18 #       <amiconn> Something like memset_o.S (for "optimized")? Better suggestions?
23.26.45 #       <Bagder> _a for alternative/assembler ?
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23.27.48 #       <amiconn> Hmm. I think this is equally good (or bad). I'll try _a
23.33.39 #       <amiconn> It works! :)
23.34.01 #       <Bagder> goodie
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