--- Log for 14.03.105  Server: sterling.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 6 days and 23 hours ago

00.00.03 #       <OPP> itunes makes good playlists
00.00.04 #       <OPP> :-D
00.00.06 #       <tvelocity> script = sync
00.00.19 #       <OPP> ya i got that
00.01.10 #       <nobby> well i'm off
00.01.22 #       <nobby> i expect sound by the time i get back, ya hear? :P
00.01.27 #       <preglow> "yes"
00.01.30 #       <nobby> :P
00.01.33 #       <preglow> i'll have it ready when you've deposited the money
00.01.39 #       <preglow> to my swiss bank account
00.01.39 Quit    nobby ("SOUND PLEASE :P")
00.01.52 #       <tvelocity> you guys should have a bot
00.01.57 #       <preglow> why?
00.01.59 #       <tvelocity> a fake-promises-bot
00.02.02 #       <preglow> hahah
00.02.15 #       <tvelocity> wich autimaticaly tells people what they want to hear
00.02.27 #       <tvelocity> so you don't have to do any estimates and stuff :}
00.02.31 #       <OPP> "rockboxx will clean your dishes"
00.02.53 #       <OPP> "oops, i forgot laundry also"
00.02.58 #       <preglow> print "yes, it's coming real soon" if /sound/ or /remote/;
00.07.50 #       <CoCoLUS> preglow
00.07.54 #       <CoCoLUS> couldn't you start with the SA?
00.08.19 #       <preglow> eh?
00.08.24 #       <preglow> sound api?
00.09.15 #       <CoCoLUS> api, arch, you name it :)
00.09.23 #       <preglow> no, i have no idea of how it should be, nor do it have the time to develop it fully
00.09.27 Quit    Seed (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00.09.38 #       <CoCoLUS> is linus the only one capable of doing it?
00.09.54 #       <preglow> i have to use more or less all my free time in the coming week for other stuff, and after that, it's easter, so i'll vanish completely for close to two weaks
00.10.02 #       <preglow> no
00.10.09 #       <preglow> but no one else has tried
00.11.37 #       <OPP> i cant wait for the h3xx port :-D
00.11.50 #       <preglow> oh, but you'll have to :)
00.12.03 #       <OPP> ya
00.12.16 #       <OPP> i dont see it coming till atleast another 3 months
00.12.19 #       <preglow> nor do i
00.12.26 #       <OPP> is that a decent estimate?
00.12.28 #       <tvelocity> i would say 6...
00.12.32 #       <preglow> i don't do estimates
00.12.33 #       <OPP> 6!?
00.12.39 #       <CoCoLUS> hey
00.12.44 #       <OPP> jeeperz!
00.12.47 #       <CoCoLUS> you can always wait for the official iriver firmware! ;)
00.12.48 #       <preglow> feel free to get us the specs we need
00.12.53 #       <preglow> and research on the hardware
00.12.54 #       <preglow> that'll help
00.12.58 #       <OPP> really?
00.12.58 #       <OPP> ok
00.13.04 #       <OPP> what do you want me to do
00.13.13 #       <OPP> i dont mind helping
00.13.15 #       <preglow> the directions are in the three above liines
00.13.34 #       <preglow> i don't think the lcd has been identified
00.13.37 #       <CoCoLUS> research the exact differnces btw the 3xx and the 1xx, and search for data sheets on the differnet components
00.13.48 #       <pill> hi
00.13.52 #       <pill> you can update this:
00.13.54 #       <pill> 951161	Rejected	5	nobody	Rockbox for iHP100	2004-05-10 12:26
00.14.00 #       <pill> in http://www.rockbox.org/requests.shtml
00.14.12 #       <Bagder> why?
00.14.12 #       <pill> since it is obviously not rejected anymore
00.14.28 #       <Bagder> yes but who cares about that old request?
00.14.35 #       <pill> or did i get the thing wrong?
00.14.46 #       <pill> well it's the exhaustive request list
00.14.53 #       <pill> it need to be accurate
00.14.57 #       <pill> needs*
00.15.06 #       <Bagder> asking for ports will continue to be rejected 
00.15.24 #       <Bagder> ports are made when people feel like it
00.15.29 #       <Bagder> asking for them is pointless
00.15.39 #       <pill> hmm
00.15.43 #       <pill> okay then
00.15.54 #       <pill> maybe i didn't get the point of the page.
00.15.58 #       <pill> my bad
00.16.11 #       <Bagder> I don't think you misunderstood
00.16.24 #       <Bagder> we just take the right to deal with requests as we think
00.16.58 #       <Bagder> I bet you can find many requests we rejected, and then they ended up implemented later on anyway
00.17.34 #       <Bagder> I don't think one single user will be happy by us going through old rejected ones and changing them to reflect reality better
00.18.00 #       <pill> okay i understand
00.18.23 #       <Bagder> so yes, we do port to the h1x0 players
00.18.32 #       <Bagder> even if that old request was rejected
00.18.32 #       <pill> that's all that matters :)
00.18.55 #       <tvelocity> please NEVER port to ipod
00.19.02 #       <Bagder> why not?
00.19.12 #       <Bagder> I use to nag the ipodlinux people to it
00.19.13 #       <pill> is ipod ever firmware upgradeable?
00.19.26 #       <OPP> ya
00.19.33 #       <OPP> pretty rarely
00.19.47 #       <OPP> ipodlinuxx is pretty neat
00.19.57 #       <Bagder> they do in fact have enough info to make Rockbox work
00.20.08 #       <Bagder> if someone wanted it to
00.20.26 #       <tvelocity> Bagder, i have a friend who is a mac-fan, and we always do iriver vs. ipod flamewars for fun:P
00.20.36 #       <preglow> let's hope that doesn't happen, my desire to code arm asm will be too great
00.20.45 #       <Bagder> ;*)
00.20.54 #       <Bagder> that flash based iriver thing is ARM based
00.21.12 #       <preglow> yea, know
00.21.13 #       <preglow> tempting
00.21.34 #       <preglow> perhaps i'll start buying more toys when i get a job and cash is pouring in
00.22.22 #       <Bagder> it would be fun to get Rockbox on an ARM based unit
00.22.27 #       <preglow> indeed
00.22.34 #       <Bagder> more CPUs means more fun! ;-)
00.22.53 #       <OPP> heh
00.23.03 #       <OPP> start porting those old pocket pc games in arm :-D
00.23.06 #       <OPP> jk
00.23.08 #       <tvelocity> does rockbox have a lot of assembly code?
00.23.12 #       <preglow> tvelocity: no
00.23.30 #       <preglow> it's mostly c
00.23.30 #       <tvelocity> good:)
00.24.03 #       <OPP> so, technically, if you took the assembly code and all that junk from it could you esstianly build your own mp3 player?
00.24.04 #       <preglow> god, i'm seriously starting to consider having a look at gcc internals to see how hard it would be to make emac intrinsics
00.24.39 #       <Bagder> OPP: sure, putting Rockbox on your own mp3 player would be a peace of cake
00.24.49 #       <OPP> cool
00.24.56 #       <OPP> i had an archos before :-D
00.25.30 #       <OPP> what a beast that thing was
00.25.32 #       <OPP> i loved it though
00.27.08 #       <tvelocity> why does X hate me? :(
00.27.14 #       <OPP> X?
00.27.29 #       <tvelocity> xorg
00.27.51 #       <OPP> o
00.28.06 #       <preglow> x hates everyone
00.30.30 #       <tvelocity> it hates me at most
00.33.29 #       <preglow> Bagder: you're a 68k guy, yes? is there any point in using the 'a' (movea, suba) versions of some instructions explicitely, or is it accepted practice to drop the a?
00.33.58 #       <Bagder> its been too long since I did 68k asm, I don't remember such details ;-(
00.34.35 #       <Bagder> (~ 15 years)
00.35.32 #       <preglow> ouch
00.35.57 #       <preglow> i was around 8 years those days, you're excused
00.36.02 #       <Bagder> hehe
00.36.15 #       <Bagder> you youngster
00.36.19 #       <preglow> had probably never even gotten my c64
00.36.23 #       <CoCoLUS> jeez i was 4 then
00.36.59 #       <Bagder> I got my C64 20 years ago
00.37.07 #       <tvelocity> jeez, i want a gamecube :(
00.37.07 #       <OPP> i wasnt even a sperm 20 years ago
00.38.21 #       <preglow> shit, i must have had a c64 by eight years old then
00.38.35 #       <CoCoLUS> freak ;)
00.41.05 #       <preglow> always will be
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00.41.25 #       <preglow> if it hadn't been for my c64, i most probably wouldn't have been programming today
00.42.04 #       <Bagder> me, zagor and linus were in the same "c64 group" back in those days
00.42.16 #       <Bagder> we go back
00.42.19 #       <preglow> i didn't discover the scene until the pc days
00.46.31 Quit    Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
00.46.48 #       <preglow> ahhh, the memories... all the failed attempts at producing something working/noteworthy
00.47.23 #       <Bagder> hehe
00.48.41 #       <OPP> my first system was a sega genesis
00.49.31 #       <preglow> that was my third
00.52.58 #       * HCl started programming on his msx
00.53.25 #       <preglow> never saw one of those
00.53.35 #       <HCl> it was ok
00.53.39 #       <HCl> it had basic, and pascal
00.53.46 #       <preglow> basic was my first language
00.53.46 #       <preglow> haha
00.53.53 #       <preglow> pascal my second
00.53.56 #       <HCl> i never really learned basic
00.53.59 #       <preglow> i did
00.54.05 #       <HCl> i started with pascal since i thought basic was too primitive
00.54.15 #       <tvelocity> i hate pascal
00.54.16 #       <HCl> >.>
00.54.19 #       <preglow> haha
00.54.21 #       <preglow> pascal's ok
00.54.29 #       <HCl> the string limit in pascal is dumb.
00.54.30 #       <preglow> but nothing i would want to use
00.54.38 #       <HCl> but it was a good starting language
00.54.47 #       <HCl> anyways.
00.54.49 #       <HCl> afk
00.54.59 #       <tvelocity> we had to learn an artificial non-existant language in school... it was basicly pascal translated into greek... jeezzzzzz...
00.55.04 #       <preglow> haha
00.55.05 #       <preglow> lovelyu
00.55.09 #       <HCl> talk about useless...
00.55.10 #       <HCl> >.>
00.55.13 #       <HCl> afk now.
00.55.16 #       <preglow> mr. afk is back!
00.55.47 #       <preglow> i miss the sound in my megadrive :/
00.55.57 #       <preglow> i wish adlib sound cards would come back in style
00.55.58 #       <preglow> fm rocks
00.56.35 #       * HCl still has his megadrive
00.56.38 #       <HCl> dunno whether it still works
00.56.46 #       <tvelocity> SNES r00lz :P
00.57.01 #       <HCl> xbox will play all snes and megadrive games anyways ;p
00.57.04 #       * HCl returned.
00.57.05 #       <HCl> o.o
00.57.12 #       <preglow> i love snes as well, yes
00.57.17 #       <preglow> got my love for rpgs from that
00.57.28 #       <tvelocity> for me, snes is the  best console ever
00.57.33 #       <preglow> then we agree
00.57.41 #       <tvelocity> it just has the greatest games
01.00.12 #       <tvelocity> zelda ownz for example :)
01.00.23 #       <preglow> deed
01.00.36 #       <preglow> spent loads of quality time with my friends and a snes
01.00.40 #       <preglow> and tons of snacks
01.00.54 #       <preglow> arhh, those were the days
01.01.01 #       <preglow> i sincerely miss them
01.02.36 #       <tvelocity> hm, quality time with friends + snacks... now d&d just came into my mind :)
01.02.49 #       <HCl> lol.
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01.07.49 #       * HCl watches elfen lied...
01.09.50 #       <preglow> i'll just go to bed
01.09.52 #       <preglow> good night, all
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02.41.37 #       <thh-seize> evenin everyone
02.42.31 #       <thh-seize> sooo
02.42.39 #       <thh-seize> anyone got an iriver h340 ?
02.44.51 #       <thh-seize> i like mine
02.44.58 #       <thh-seize> wouldnt mind gettin rockbox on it
02.45.16 #       <thh-seize> even tho to be honest
02.45.21 #       <thh-seize> i dont really get rockbox
02.47.13 #       <thh-seize> anyway
02.47.24 #       <thh-seize> good luck wit the whole thing
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04.02.44 #       <OPP> hola
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06.37.13 #       <GOATHEAD> does anyone knowif there will be an archos xs200 firmware?
06.38.22 #       <GOATHEAD> ..
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07.47.16 #       <amiconn> g'morning
07.48.35 #       <LinusN> mooning
08.00.49 Nick    kergoth is now known as kergoth`zzz (~kergoth@li11-226.members.linode.com)
08.24.34 #       * Bagder zips his morning coffee
08.24.51 #       <LinusN> did it get any smaller?
08.25.08 #       <Bagder> uuuh, that hurts
08.26.09 #       <LinusN> espresso, nah ... compresso!
08.26.59 #       <amiconn> lol
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09.48.20 #       <T0mas> lo
09.48.52 #       <LinusN> helo
09.50.52 #       <dwihno> EHLO
09.53.56 #       <T0mas> ghehe... Should I reply all supported codepages/langages? ;)
09.54.09 #       <T0mas> 250 dwihno 
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11.20.45 #       <Lynx_> Hmm, a friend of mine connected a wrong powersupply to an usb hard disk case, now the disk does not do anything any more. is there a chance of reviving it? OnTrack wants 1000 eur for restoring the info...
11.23.45 #       <dwihno> have you torn out the disk from the casing and tested it inside a PC?
11.25.57 #       <Lynx_> yes, and inside other cases...doesn't spin up
11.26.09 #       <Lynx_> i guess there is a short in there somewhere...
11.26.52 #       <Lynx_> i just wonder if it could be repaired if opened, and then would hopefully just run long enough to get the data off
11.30.21 #       <dwihno> I haven't heard of hard disk repairs
11.30.36 #       <Bagder> dwihno: there are companies that do that
11.30.48 #       <Bagder> they usually charge a lot
11.31.10 #       <Bagder> since they know people don't have the stuff backed up ;-)
11.32.15 #       <Lynx_> Bagder: yes, 1000 euro was the quote ;)
11.32.29 #       <dwihno> :-)
11.32.55 #       <dwihno> I actually made a complete source archive backup, right before christmas
11.33.23 #       <dwihno> One of my disks was breaking up, so I got the most important stuff before it totally died
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12.06.15 #       <kurzhaarrocker> does rockboy really work on V1 recorders?
12.08.49 #       <amiconn> yup
12.08.58 #       <amiconn> (but very slowly)
12.09.03 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Where can I get an example?
12.11.57 #       <amiconn> ftp://titania.student.utwente.nl/ (HCl's site)
12.12.45 #       <kurzhaarrocker> thx
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12.30.41 #       <Lynx_> Hmm, it seems that most harddisks actually have a fuse on the board that could be repaired...
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14.13.01 #       <T0mas> _FDV? what do you need my client version for?
14.14.53 #       <HCl> yawn
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14.50.52 #       <elinenbe> hello!  any new progress on the iriver port in the last week?
14.51.40 #       <dwihno> I guess everybody are waiting for pcm/audio/codecs now.
14.52.02 #       <elinenbe> does audio work in the CVS now?
14.52.46 #       <Bagder> no
14.55.19 #       <elinenbe> Bagder: anytime soon?  or are we waiting for the audio api?
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14.56.43 #       <HCl> we're mostly waiting for the audio api, really.
14.57.12 #       <Bagder> people are busy with life these days
14.57.16 #       <HCl> yup
14.57.33 #       <HCl> *nods at mostly watching anime*
14.58.02 #       <HCl> though i must say not having an audio api is also preventing me to play around with stuff a bit...
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15.07.51 #       <HCl> hey preglow.
15.07.54 #       <HCl> how goes...?
15.18.48 #       <preglow> good
15.19.05 #       <preglow> nothing out of the ordinary
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15.24.59 #       * rasher murders nautilus
15.25.09 #       <rasher> NO I DO NOT WANT YOU TO CREATE A DESKTOP
15.29.46 #       <rasher> Hrm.. could someone explain to me, what's happening in flipit.c in draw_spot() ? why is the bitmap drawn in two steps?
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15.38.15 #       <T0mas> lo
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17.16.34 #       <HCl> doh.
17.16.40 #       <HCl> our tv is stuck on one channel...
17.16.47 #       <HCl> and its national government like television...
17.16.53 #       <HCl> its so boring it makes your head bleed >.<;
17.19.05 #       <rasher> great... gaim won't log me onto aim
17.19.17 #       <HCl> ah well, at least you can run linux properly
17.19.31 #       <rasher> Hm?
17.19.36 #       * HCl can't cause he can't get 802.1x to work and his touchpad won't work
17.19.57 #       <rasher> Ah
17.20.16 #       <rasher> can't get my wifi to work either.. it's horrible
17.20.37 #       <rasher> so I don't run linux often on my laptop
17.20.40 #       <rasher> sadly
17.21.08 #       <HCl> well
17.21.12 #       <HCl> wifi works nowadays
17.21.15 #       <HCl> for cards that won't work
17.21.18 #       <HCl> you can load windows drivers
17.21.21 #       <HCl> works sweet.
17.21.27 #       <rasher> Didn't work for me
17.21.30 #       <HCl> aside from not being able to put it in promiscious mode
17.21.34 #       <HCl> what kind of card do you have
17.21.40 #       <rasher> Prism3 usb
17.22.05 #       <rasher> At least, it didn't work with the provided drivers
17.22.13 #       <HCl> ah.
17.22.15 #       <rasher> may work with some from the ndisloader wiki
17.22.15 #       <HCl> okay
17.22.18 #       <HCl> usb
17.22.25 #       <rasher> Indeed.
17.22.35 #       <rasher> usb makes it a lot more complicated, sadly
17.22.42 #       <HCl> yea.
17.22.54 #       <HCl> i just bought an pcmcia pci card
17.22.57 #       <HCl> unfortunately
17.23.02 #       <HCl> i haven't gotten it to work on my server yet
17.23.05 #       <HCl> probably cause of its irq
17.23.34 #       <rasher> My laptop doesn't have pcmcia though
17.23.34 #       <HCl> Yenta: ISA IRQ mask 0x0000, PCI irq 177
17.23.38 #       <HCl> irq 177 :/
17.23.44 #       <HCl> i think thats just plainly too high
17.23.50 #       <HCl> for it to work properly..
17.25.11 #       <preglow> ahh, love pcs
17.27.09 #       <HCl> mmmm.
17.27.13 #       <HCl> i trust thats sarcastic
17.28.33 #       <preglow> hell yes
17.29.09 #       <preglow> they're large, clunky, noisy shits that often refuse to work
17.29.32 #       <preglow> unfortunately, they also offer a slew of other possibilites
17.32.26 #       <HCl> yup.
17.32.32 #       <HCl> i agree
17.32.47 Join    alx_ [0] (~alx@h80ad9166.dhcp.vt.edu)
17.32.54 Nick    alx_ is now known as alxcm (~alx@h80ad9166.dhcp.vt.edu)
17.32.58 #       <preglow> oh, i do SO love it when i can't get things to work
17.33.05 #       <alxcm> lol
17.33.09 #       <preglow> quite luckily frustration is quickly vented with me
17.33.09 #       <HCl> whats wrong?
17.33.11 #       * preglow puts on loud music
17.33.14 #       <HCl>  :P
17.33.20 #       * HCl has this collection of glass jars
17.33.22 #       <HCl> and a brick wall outside
17.33.24 #       <HCl>  :P
17.33.42 #       <alxcm> so does rockbox play music on the iHP-120?
17.33.50 #       <HCl> from wav, yes
17.33.56 #       <alxcm> or are you all still working on the codec api?
17.34.11 #       <HCl> nobody's working on the codec api at the moment
17.34.25 #       <alxcm> but the table in IriverPort says: Codecs  incomplete mp3, ogg and FLAC all play > 100% but more optimizations are needed
17.34.36 #       <HCl> yes.
17.34.39 #       <HCl> the codecs work
17.34.42 #       <alxcm> okay
17.34.51 #       <alxcm> just not on the target
17.34.55 #       <rasher> they do
17.35.01 #       <rasher> they're just not hooked up to anything
17.35.08 #       <alxcm> lol!
17.35.10 #       <rasher> they just output to a .wav in the root
17.35.13 #       <alxcm> well, that would make sense
17.35.14 #       <HCl> exactly.
17.35.26 #       <preglow> and connecting them to anything at all is a rather big job
17.35.27 #       <alxcm> useful feature in itself
17.35.34 #       <preglow> which requires thought and discussion
17.35.41 #       <preglow> and we're not experiencing any of those at the moment
17.35.41 #       <alxcm> ...hence the API, i see
17.35.45 #       <rasher> well, making something for them to connect to
17.35.51 #       <alxcm> i do like the api proposal so far
17.35.51 #       <HCl> well, the whole codec slot thing
17.35.59 #       <HCl> and stuff like that.
17.35.59 #       <preglow> yes, but that's just an idea
17.36.03 #       <alxcm> codecs should not be compiled in
17.36.03 #       <rasher> the actual connecting shouldn't be a huge problem?
17.36.08 #       <preglow> no
17.36.18 #       <HCl> nah, its just rewriting the wav playing demo
17.36.22 #       <HCl> to use output of the codecs
17.36.39 #       <preglow> and figure out how buffers are to be used
17.36.44 #       <preglow> how large they're supposed to be
17.37.13 #       <HCl> yea.
17.37.29 #       <preglow> there are several issues
17.37.33 #       <alxcm> hmm...so are we going with dynamically loadable codecs?
17.37.36 #       <preglow> yes
17.37.46 #       <alxcm> how many can theoretically be loaded at once?
17.37.57 #       <alxcm> because loading a codec then would -> hdd spinup
17.37.59 #       <preglow> theoretically, a bunch
17.38.02 #       <rasher> why would you want to have more than one (possibly two) loaded?
17.38.03 #       <preglow> but we're going with two
17.38.12 #       <alxcm> okay
17.38.33 #       <rasher> well if you're going to start playing a file, there'll be hdd spinup anyway, so I don't see that as much of a problem :)
17.38.44 #       <alxcm> and which ones get loaded comes from the playlist
17.38.49 #       <alxcm> yeah, good point
17.39.04 #       <alxcm> how much ram does the hp hav?
17.39.07 #       <preglow> 32 megs
17.39.17 #       <alxcm> nice
17.40.04 #       <alxcm> ETA until codec -> DAS is working?
17.40.22 #       <rasher> none
17.40.31 #       <rasher> it all depends when someone starts working on the api
17.40.36 #       <alxcm> lol
17.40.50 #       <alxcm> i'd love to...but i'm not that good at C, and i've never done embedded programming before
17.41.00 #       <rasher> could someone explain to me, what's happening in flipit.c in draw_spot() ? why is the bitmap drawn in two steps? .. HCl? preglow?
17.41.51 #       <preglow> no rockbox for me, sorry
17.42.22 #       <alxcm> rasher: no idea, don't even have the source, but it seems that it could be because you need to clear the screen before drawing...?
17.42.34 #       <HCl> no idea :/
17.42.40 #       <rasher> nope, that's not it
17.43.00 #       <HCl> look at who checked it in last and ask him?
17.43.09 #       <rasher> I guess
17.43.30 #       <rasher>  it's pretty old though
17.44.26 #       <rasher> I think this code comes from the original checkin, 2 years ago
17.44.27 #       <rasher> :-\
17.44.39 #       <HCl>  :/
17.44.40 #       <HCl>  ok o
17.44.41 #       <HCl> k
17.44.42 #       <rasher> but I've noticed it other places
17.44.44 #       <HCl> i'll take a look at it
17.54.40 #       <HCl> anyways
17.54.42 #       <HCl> what i'd do
17.54.45 #       <HCl> is remove the second drawing
17.54.48 #       <HCl> and see why its needed
17.55.14 #       <rasher> good plan
17.55.43 #       <rasher> I have a feeling it's being tricky with the bitmap, needing less bytes or something
17.58.57 #       <rasher> indeed, it's drawing the upper half
17.59.14 #       <rasher> then the lower half
17.59.18 #       <HCl> there you go :)
17.59.21 Part    loki1228
17.59.27 #       <rasher> still doesn't make sense
17.59.37 #       <alxcm> is it a visual optimization thing
17.59.37 #       <HCl> so alter it to do it in one time, see if that works?
17.59.43 #       <alxcm> like, to avoid flicker?
18.00.21 #       <rasher> I doubt it, it's only drawn when they change
18.01.21 #       <alxcm> weird, then
18.02.04 Quit    Patr3ck_ ()
18.02.57 #       <rasher> *boggle*
18.03.17 #       <rasher> but yeah, it works if I draw it in one go
18.03.18 #       <alxcm> ENGE class ending...ttyal
18.05.27 Quit    alxcm ("Bye all ;)")
18.06.07 Join    webguest62 [0] (~51429fe0@labb.contactor.se)
18.10.06 Quit    webguest62 (Client Quit)
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18.27.31 Quit    R3nTiL ()
18.37.57 Join    Sucka [0] (~NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-252.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
18.40.46 #       <HCl> oh for crying out loud.
18.40.49 #       <HCl> our tv is stuck.
18.40.50 #       <HCl> i mean
18.40.51 #       <HCl> broken
18.41.03 #       <HCl> it keeps forgetting its programming, so its stuck on a single channel.
18.41.41 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18.43.28 Join    _Lucretia_ [0] (~munkee@abyss2.demon.co.uk)
18.46.14 #       <preglow> turn it off
18.52.09 Join    Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.umbc.edu)
18.52.49 #       * rasher yells at flipit
18.57.44 #       <rasher> think I broke it
18.57.47 #       <rasher> rubbish
18.58.06 #       <rasher> I should never be allowed to touch computers.
18.59.53 #       * HCl smacks his computer
19.04.41 #       <CoCoLUS> seems like everybody is happy ;)
19.04.59 #       <T0mas> arg... no..
19.05.11 #       * T0mas hates computers...
19.05.24 #       <T0mas> why did it chose this as a hobby? and a job? :X
19.06.07 #       <HCl> i wonder that too.
19.07.00 #       <HCl> but then i make stuff like rockboy and dynarec
19.07.05 #       <HCl> and i remember that its fun in a way
19.07.06 #       <HCl> at times.
19.07.26 #       <T0mas> lol
19.07.33 #       <T0mas> yeah, when everything is working it is...
19.07.56 #       <T0mas> I've been on the phone with a customer for 2 hours...
19.08.06 #       <T0mas> wondering why it didn't work
19.08.39 #       <T0mas> Just when I almost gave up... he said: "Oh shit, I have it..."
19.09.02 #       <T0mas> "thanks for you help, bye"
19.09.06 #       <T0mas> and dropped the phone...
19.09.13 #       <preglow> hahaha
19.09.13 #       <T0mas> I still don't know what he did wrong
19.09.24 #       <T0mas> but it must have been _REALLY_ stupid
19.09.46 #       <T0mas> otherwise he would have told me i guess...
19.09.53 #       <kergoth> you work tech support?  my condolences.
19.09.58 #       <T0mas> lol
19.09.59 #       <T0mas> thanks
19.10.14 #       <T0mas> but I'm not the real techsupport :)
19.10.25 #       * kergoth did that for 3 years, and thinks his ability to deal with end users has been seriously and permanently impaired as a result
19.10.31 #       <T0mas> lol
19.10.39 #       <T0mas> well I'm co administrator
19.10.48 #       <T0mas> so not that much customers
19.10.59 #       <T0mas> but when nobody find's out what's wrong... they forward it
19.11.04 #       <kergoth> years of forced friendliness is bad for the soul
19.11.06 #       <kergoth> ah
19.11.15 #       <T0mas> yeah, I don't have to do much customers...
19.11.27 #       <T0mas> they complain to others...
19.11.28 #       <kergoth> thats good, you just might survive
19.11.30 #       <kergoth> ;)
19.11.36 #       <T0mas> I just get the filed form... and do what's asked
19.11.49 #       <T0mas> or return it when in BOFH mode :P
19.11.52 #       <kergoth> hehe
19.12.59 #       <T0mas> but I can imagine you getting crazy after a few years...
19.13.14 #       <T0mas> afaik it's the same question's every week?
19.14.12 #       <T0mas> "Where is my document?" - "where did you save it?" - "Don't know, just clicked ok..."
19.14.29 #       * T0mas would scream at those kind of people :P
19.14.44 #       <rasher> I'd probably kill myself pretty fast.
19.14.51 #       <rasher> or better, kill them
19.14.55 #       <T0mas> lol
19.15.08 #       <T0mas> well... maybe I would give them a pen and paper if I was in a good mood :P
19.15.41 #       <T0mas> like: "You can't work with computers, I'm sorry... here's a pen... good luck..."
19.16.31 #       <kergoth> it wasnt _that_ bad.. but in some ways it was worse
19.16.35 #       <kergoth> unix tech support, not windows
19.16.42 #       <T0mas> oooh
19.16.49 #       <T0mas> that's intelligent customers at least
19.16.59 #       <kergoth> so i had the fun experiences like walking a school cafeteria lady through using vi to edit her /etc/inittab on an ancient SCO openserver machine to fix her terminals.
19.17.06 #       <kergoth> fraid not
19.17.21 #       <T0mas> lol
19.17.24 #       <T0mas> and did it work?
19.17.29 #       <kergoth> eventually..
19.17.34 #       <kergoth> after much banging my head on my desk
19.17.35 #       * T0mas would ask for SSH access...
19.17.49 #       <kergoth> the Mute button is a godsend.
19.18.05 #       <T0mas> vi is just not idiot proof... 
19.18.10 #       <kergoth> "why yes ma'am, just do.." *mute* "GOD DAMN STUPID FUCKING WHORE" *mute* "right, yeah, just hit :wq"
19.18.27 #       <kergoth> :)
19.18.28 #       <T0mas> "Yes, you have to type :w filename.txt"... "No, not ; it really has to be :"
19.18.36 #       <kergoth> yeah, exactly. no fun
19.18.49 #       <kergoth> and good luck figuring out if they're in insert or command mode
19.18.51 #       * kergoth shudders
19.18.57 #       <T0mas> lol
19.19.00 #       <T0mas> yeah...
19.19.20 #       <rasher> vi is pretty hostile
19.19.35 #       <T0mas> "Hit escape untill it starts beeping. Then type I, you can now type."
19.19.38 #       <kergoth> hehe
19.20.03 Nick    Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59)
19.20.07 #       <T0mas> What? you didn't want to type there? *mute* IDIOT!!! *mute* ok, use the escape till beep again
19.20.18 #       <T0mas> now move to where you wanted to type
19.20.39 #       <T0mas> WHAT? You didn't want to type in vi help? you wanted to open a file?
19.20.43 #       <T0mas> :P
19.21.54 #       <kergoth> hehe.  vi is wonderfully efficient.. once you know it.  until then, god help you
19.22.20 #       <kergoth> its 12:30pm and i havent yet gone into work
19.22.22 #       <kergoth> hmm
19.22.25 #       * kergoth wanders off
19.22.34 Quit    DMJC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19.25.18 Quit    Schnueff ("leaving")
19.26.43 #       <rasher> well.. vim is fine
19.26.54 #       <rasher> vi is just a tad too.. simple for my taste
19.45.25 #       * rasher yawns
19.55.15 Join    Renko [0] (~Renko@host217-43-59-62.range217-43.btcentralplus.com)
20.04.07 #       <T0mas> ARG...
20.04.27 #       * T0mas has to find an association with the feeling "desire" for a dutch test...
20.04.36 #       <T0mas> well... actually.. 5...
20.05.06 #       <T0mas> I have: vacation, sex and food... anybody has a good suggestion for others?
20.09.51 Join    DMJC [0] (~James@220-245-171-89.tpgi.com.au)
20.14.46 Join    matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
20.18.35 #       <preglow> desire right now would be: twenty bottles of the most expensive beer i can find, two large pizzas and a pack of smokes
20.18.41 #       <preglow> that and no pc
20.23.13 #       <T0mas> yeah, that's food ;)
20.23.34 #       <T0mas> My other chat channel came with freedome... and power...
20.24.25 #       <preglow> hahah
20.24.26 #       <preglow> power...
20.24.34 #       <preglow> i can do without power
20.28.58 #       <HCl> heh.
20.29.05 #       <HCl> power usually gets abused
20.29.19 #       <T0mas> yeah, but it's a desire...
20.29.26 #       <T0mas> why start wars? for money and power...
20.30.21 #       <HCl> a lot of desires are rather dumb, if you ask me.
20.35.41 Join    mirak [0] (~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-38-248.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20.35.42 #       <mirak> hi
20.36.10 #       <mirak> should rock box be able to achieve better performance on video for iH320 ?
20.36.26 #       <mirak> better than 10 fps
20.36.32 #       <mirak> I am wondering
20.41.44 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20.47.59 #       <preglow> ghagag
20.48.09 #       <preglow> what makes you think we're planning on adding video support?
20.48.33 #       <preglow> 10 frames per second on that cpu is nothing short of miraculous anyway
21.00.35 Join    Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch)
21.12.59 #       <mirak> considering the resolution
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21.34.17 #       <rasher> I think the solution to dumb users is to require all new computers to include a huge red light near monitor, and have it flash brightly when any critical security decision is to be made
21.34.36 #       <HCl> o.O
21.35.16 #       <rasher> They say education is the way, I'm all for intimidation instead
21.35.37 #       <rasher> With a bit of luck, dumb users would get scared and asked someone who actually knows what he's doing
21.36.09 #       <rasher> instead of just blindly clicking "yes" because "I want that free screensaver that keeps my computer clock accurate and enhances my mortgage"
21.36.54 #       <rasher> Or at the very least, we'd get to ask in a stern voice "Did you click yes when the RED LIGHT BLINKED?!"
21.37.16 #       <HCl> microsoft is recently doing stuff against that kind of stuff...
21.37.36 #       <preglow> rasher: ahahaha
21.37.57 #       <preglow> HCl: well, of course, they think everyone should be allowed to use a computer regardless of whether they know how to use it
21.38.14 #       <preglow> let's unleash people without drivers licenses on the roads!
21.38.24 #       <preglow> that's a bit on the edge, but...
21.38.24 #       <HCl> mmmmmm...
21.38.26 #       <HCl> well.
21.38.36 #       <HCl> i realized a while ago
21.38.45 #       <HCl> that there's no point in being frustrated about stupid people.
21.39.05 #       <preglow> of course not
21.39.08 #       <preglow> i just try to avoid them
21.39.11 #       <preglow> i'm doing very well at it
21.40.18 #       <HCl> *nods*
21.40.20 #       <HCl> i do the same.
21.41.25 Join    NegativeK [0] (~negk@68-190-48-83.cpe.ga.charter.com)
21.42.16 #       <rasher> well, people without driver's licenses... that's actually sortof close
21.42.26 #       <rasher> only tthey're not driving normal cars, but tanks that shoot people randomly
21.42.34 #       <preglow> haha
21.42.36 #       <preglow> and they're not lethal
21.42.42 #       <rasher> well no
21.42.44 #       <rasher> there's that
21.42.54 #       <preglow> but it's a point, of course
21.42.55 #       <rasher> but it's still PRETTY DARN ANNOYING
21.42.58 #       <preglow> computers are complicated things
21.43.06 #       <preglow> and somehow you're not expected to actually know anything about them
21.44.48 #       <rasher> http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~yweiss/Colorization/
21.44.52 #       <rasher> that's pretty darn cool
21.44.54 #       <thegeek> indeed
21.45.06 #       <thegeek> especially the animated clips
21.45.37 Join    Terminal-Velocit [0] (~tony@ipa35.5.tellas.gr)
21.46.14 #       <rasher> haha, the recolouring is great
21.46.22 #       <rasher> "I want this... green!"
21.46.28 Join    DrRick [0] (DrRick@81-86-77-240.dsl.pipex.com)
21.46.57 #       <rasher> in fact, that is awesome
21.47.27 #       <CoCoLUS> hm
21.47.29 #       <CoCoLUS> doesn't work for me :(
21.47.33 #       <CoCoLUS> dns error
21.48.04 #       <rasher> slashdottet
21.48.12 #       <rasher> shouldn't give a dns error though, I guess
21.48.14 Quit    Liehbeth (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21.48.36 #       <CoCoLUS> well you know... ie error messages...
21.49.13 #       <rasher> oh
21.49.16 #       <HCl> yea, same.
21.49.25 Nick    Terminal-Velocit is now known as tvelocity (~tony@ipa35.5.tellas.gr)
22.06.57 Join    Camilo [0] (~chatzilla@userca029.dsl.pipex.com)
22.11.31 #       <T0mas> LOL
22.11.32 #       <T0mas> C:\>tracert -d 172.16.0.4
22.11.32 #       <T0mas> Bezig met het traceren van de route naar 172.16.0.4 via maximaal 30 hops
22.11.32 DBUG    Enqueued KICK T0mas
22.11.32 #       <T0mas>   1     1 ms     4 ms     3 ms  172.16.0.1
22.11.32 #       <T0mas>   2    40 ms    21 ms    35 ms  172.16.0.4
22.11.32 ***     Alert Mode level 1
22.11.32 #       <T0mas>   3    26 ms    22 ms    41 ms  172.16.0.4
22.11.52 #       <T0mas> and guess what... it continues like this forever
22.11.54 #       <rasher> localized stuff ><
22.12.10 Quit    thegeek ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
22.12.14 #       <T0mas> set 4 to 30 is all 172.16.0.4
22.12.19 #       <T0mas> but that are two pc's...
22.12.25 Join    thegeek_ [0] (na@ti521110a080-0416.bb.online.no)
22.12.30 #       <rasher> excellent
22.12.35 #       <T0mas> and the owner is asking why he can't connect...
22.12.37 #       <T0mas> lol
22.12.51 #       <T0mas> my neighbours are not really pc friendly...
22.20.21 #       <T0mas> hm...
22.20.28 #       <T0mas> I'll see that tomorrow...
22.20.55 #       <T0mas> have to be at the station on 6:30 :(
22.21.05 #       <T0mas> so i'm going to bed
22.21.07 Quit    T0mas ("bye")
22.21.33 ***     Alert Mode OFF
22.22.43 #       <HCl> ohh.
22.22.46 #       <HCl> it suddenly started working.
22.25.04 Nick    thegeek_ is now known as thegeek (na@ti521110a080-0416.bb.online.no)
22.25.32 #       <rasher> "it"?
22.26.11 #       <HCl> the site.
22.26.27 #       <rasher> oh ah
22.28.21 #       <CoCoLUS> lucky you :)
22.30.39 Quit    _Lucretia_ ("Leaving")
22.30.52 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22.30.52 #       * tvelocity np Raphael Marionneau - Abstrait (Njoy) 06/02/2005
22.31.59 #       <CoCoLUS> now working :)
22.32.15 #       <CoCoLUS> seems somewhat... faked
22.32.35 #       <HCl> it does.
22.33.08 #       <thegeek> where what who?
22.33.31 #       <rasher> I doubt it, it's a university.. plus some guy on /. used their code on some pictures of his own
22.33.37 #       <CoCoLUS> headlines like "new compression algo - whole dvds on a floppy" come to mind :)
22.33.52 #       <HCl> heh.
22.33.54 #       <HCl> well.
22.34.02 #       <HCl> there once was this guy in the netherlands, i think?
22.34.13 #       <CoCoLUS> like, been there, done that, but hey, sometimes there has to be a genius :)
22.34.21 #       <HCl> who had devised a way of putting 4 movies in the amount of silicon that normally stores 32kb
22.34.29 #       <HCl> but the day he was gonna sell his patent
22.34.31 #       <HCl> he was murdered
22.34.37 #       <HCl> and all of his notes were stolen and cleaned out
22.34.42 #       <rasher> o.O
22.34.44 #       <CoCoLUS> sounds like a tv episode :)
22.34.47 #       <HCl> its not :/
22.34.52 #       <HCl> unfortunately.
22.35.03 #       <CoCoLUS> you think it's true?
22.35.08 #       <HCl> either its been destroyed, or someone has that technoligy but doesn't want to publish it.
22.35.10 #       <thegeek> urban legend deluxe
22.35.15 #       <Bagder> I bet he was killed by the same aliens that kidnapped Elvis
22.35.18 #       <thegeek> hehehe
22.35.22 #       <HCl> i honestly don't know. it was on the tv news, national channel
22.35.26 #       <HCl> not one of the commercial channels.
22.35.46 #       <thegeek> hehehe
22.35.55 #       <thegeek> I saw it on tv, it MUST be true:)
22.36.00 #       <thegeek> ;)
22.36.20 #       <CoCoLUS> sounds like "rtl 2 news" :P
22.36.39 #       <rasher> I should probably dream up some food... :-\
22.37.04 #       <tvelocity> sounds like the movie "antitrust" :P
22.37.15 #       <thegeek> I just had 1 liter of tomato soup, a whole box of macaronis, some bread and cola
22.37.19 #       <thegeek> quite full now
22.37.24 #       <rasher> that was a rather silly movie I think
22.37.38 #       <tvelocity> i liked it
22.37.45 #       <rasher> I think the menu here says chicken and potatoes
22.38.40 #       <rasher> Hahahahaha
22.38.51 Quit    DrRick ()
22.39.27 #       <rasher> Apparently they're dropping Q from the next James Bond movie, because.. "They're afraid Cleese's appearance will ruin the concept of a serious James Bond movie"
22.39.39 #       <rasher> Hold on a second, when was James Bond movies ever serious!?
22.40.07 #       <thegeek> what!?
22.40.15 #       <HCl> um.
22.40.24 #       <thegeek> q is the best bond movie character!
22.40.25 #       <tvelocity> james bind is based on a true story, don't you know that?
22.40.26 #       <tvelocity> :P
22.40.30 #       <HCl> was q the old guy?
22.40.32 #       <HCl> or the new woman?
22.40.34 #       <rasher> Yup
22.40.38 #       <rasher> old guy
22.40.47 #       <thegeek> gotta love those gadgets
22.40.50 #       <HCl> didn't he... die.. several years ago?
22.40.51 #       <HCl> >.>;
22.40.52 #       <HCl> irl?
22.41.04 #       <thegeek> hmm
22.41.04 #       <rasher> The old one did, John Cleese took over
22.41.06 #       <HCl> he hasn't *been* in the last james bond movies.
22.41.10 #       <HCl> oh.
22.41.11 #       <HCl> okay.
22.41.11 #       <HCl> sorry
22.41.16 #       <thegeek> well
22.41.17 #       <HCl> i really suck horridly at names
22.41.46 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22.52.49 Quit    preglow ("flopp")
22.53.53 Quit    Camilo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.55.42 Join    alx__ [0] (~alx@h80ad9095.dhcp.vt.edu)
22.55.47 Nick    alx__ is now known as alxcm (~alx@h80ad9095.dhcp.vt.edu)
22.55.51 #       <alxcm> hey guys :)
22.56.28 #       <alxcm> anyone ever heard of APE format?
22.57.40 #       <Seed> of course
22.57.48 #       <alxcm> planned support...?
22.57.57 #       <Seed> I doubt it
22.58.03 #       <Seed> the license is an issue
22.58.16 #       <alxcm> ah
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23.06.40 Quit    Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
23.10.22 #       <amiconn> rasher: Still trying to figure why the bitmap is drawn in multiple parts? I may have an explanation...
23.11.11 #       <amiconn> ...lcd_bitmap() used to have problems with drawing bitmaps >8 pixels high. I fixed that, several months ago
23.24.41 #       <rasher> ah, I assumed it was something like that
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23.25.12 #       <rasher> or that it could be a speed-optimization - didn't make much sense though
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23.25.53 Nick    tvelocity is now known as tvelocity[away] (~tony@ipa35.5.tellas.gr)
23.26.03 Part    webguest81
23.26.09 Join    Bluechip [0] (~BlueChip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
23.26.13 #       <Bluechip> box
23.26.19 Join    webguest69 [0] (~aa87f12e@labb.contactor.se)
23.26.24 #       * rasher boxes
23.26.24 #       <Bluechip> whoops
23.26.31 Part    webguest69
23.26.38 #       <Bluechip> the window popped up mid sentence and stole focus
23.26.49 #       <rasher> heh
23.26.56 #       <amiconn> Nasty wind
23.26.58 #       <amiconn> oqw
23.27.16 #       <Bluechip> oh riight - lol - I've just realised where I am
23.27.18 #       <Bluechip> LOL
23.27.27 #       <Bluechip> evenin' fellow Rockboxers
23.27.52 #       <rasher> hello
23.28.13 #       <Bluechip> well, while I'm here (albeit by acccident) ...any gmini devs in?
23.29.37 #       <amiconn> Doesn't seem so, unfortunately
23.30.04 #       <Bluechip> How are you keepin' ami?
23.30.46 #       <amiconn> Hmm. Currently I'm annoyed with x11. Seems I need to install Linux somehow, in a VM or so
23.31.11 #       <amiconn> Time consuming task...
23.32.07 #       <Bluechip> Why not use the win32sim?
23.33.14 #       <amiconn> I want to improve the x11 sim. Especially the button handling has problems
23.33.38 #       <amiconn> Didn't think that x11 is so... stubborn
23.34.12 #       <CoCoLUS> use xorg :)
23.34.19 #       <amiconn> ?
23.35.35 #       <Bluechip> hmmm, suppose you _need_ to install Linux then :(
23.36.03 #       <mirak> iRiver is arm ?
23.36.14 #       <mirak> ARM cpu
23.36.15 #       <mirak> ?
23.36.28 #       <amiconn> The problem is: My improvements work, and they work as intended in cygwin x11, but there are problems reported in real Linux
23.37.11 #       <amiconn> mirak: Some of the iriver flash players are arm based. The ihp series are not. They are coldfire based
23.37.27 #       <mirak> H3x0 are what ?
23.37.56 #       <mirak> do you use system emulation ?
23.38.10 #       <rasher> amiconn: why not just dual-boot?
23.38.11 #       <mirak> to test the firmware ?
23.38.32 #       <amiconn> rasher: That would be even more cumbersome.
23.38.44 #       <rasher> buy another computer :)
23.38.53 #       <mirak> amiconn: you should only use linux anyway
23.38.54 #       <amiconn> Dual boot == choose beforehand what to run. With vm I can have both at once
23.38.55 #       <mirak> :)
23.39.04 #       <tvelocity[away]> or start using only linux
23.39.16 #       <tvelocity[away]> or at least mainly linux
23.39.16 #       <tvelocity[away]> :P
23.39.19 #       <amiconn> mirak: Certainly not a good option, especially wit a laptop
23.39.25 #       <mirak> amiconn: I have a XP installation
23.39.32 #       <mirak> amiconn: that I run inside qemu
23.39.44 #       <mirak> amiconn: I also tried colinux
23.39.49 #       <mirak> wich is I thin what you need
23.39.53 #       <mirak> think
23.39.57 #       <kergoth> colinux is really nice
23.40.02 Quit    webguest50 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23.40.09 #       <amiconn> I think it would take several days of intensive work and research to get all the hardware running
23.40.12 #       <mirak> with colinux when I am on windows, I can run my linux system
23.40.24 #       <mirak> they are in dual boot
23.40.28 #       * rasher punches gaim
23.40.30 #       <mirak> but I can run linux from windows
23.40.45 #       <mirak> well, not anymore, because windows hard drive died
23.41.06 #       <kergoth> i run XP on my workstation for gaming reasons, and use colinux for development to avoid the hassles of dual booting
23.41.09 #       <kergoth> works well
23.41.21 #       <amiconn> It's just not worth the effort. With linux I need more work to get it running, for less benefit
23.41.41 #       <mirak> amiconn: depends of the ditribution
23.42.03 #       <mirak> but yes, if you are unexperienced you will lose time adapting
23.42.12 #       <mirak> you can call that time investement
23.42.20 #       <amiconn> I tried some distros in th epast years
23.42.32 #       <mirak> well, with qemu, there should be a way to emulate an iriver
23.42.37 #       <amiconn> There are endless problems to get all hardware running, and less software
23.42.39 #       <mirak> arm arch is upported
23.42.41 #       <kergoth> qemu emulates ARM. thats it.
23.42.47 #       <kergoth> theres a lot more to an arm device than the arm core.
23.42.58 #       <mirak> an arm system
23.43.08 #       <rasher> recently, the amount of work needed to get things running amounts to basically a) wifi problems  b) setup of whichever software you want
23.43.24 #       <rasher> in my experience, of course
23.43.29 #       <mirak> try distribution like ubuntu
23.43.29 #       <amiconn> Wifi, gfx, sound, bluetooth... my list is endless
23.43.37 #       <tvelocity[away]> ubuntu rocks
23.43.42 #       <amiconn> It never worked for me out of the box
23.43.50 #       <kergoth> that all works fine out of the box in a decent distro.
23.44.03 #       <tvelocity[away]> but stay away from RPM based distros
23.44.15 #       <mirak> amiconn: for how long didn't you tried linux ?
23.44.15 #       <rasher> depends on the wifi
23.44.30 #       <amiconn> My last try was some weeks ago
23.44.33 #       <rasher> I haven't yet seen a distro eat my laptop wifi chipset
23.44.34 #       <mirak> lol
23.45.24 #       <mirak> do you have the full specs of the iriver ?
23.45.32 #       <mirak> I mean how did you managed to write drivers ?
23.45.41 #       <mirak> or even to hack te firmware ?
23.45.57 #       <kergoth> i'd imagine the same way you port linux to any device without docs.  painfully.
23.46.05 #       <mirak> mmm
23.46.06 #       <mirak> lol
23.47.04 #       <rasher> the hardware on iriver is more or less fully documented I think
23.47.31 #       <rasher> on the h100 series, at least
23.48.19 #       <amiconn> mirak: To name some of the problems (I know of or I actually ran into): AVM BlueFritz, NVidia network driver, NVidia 3d accellerated gfx driver, Canon printer, Intel wifi
23.49.15 Quit    lolo-laptop ("Client exiting")
23.49.21 #       <rasher> Odd, at the very least, nvidia 3d driver should work out of the box on most distros
23.50.07 #       <amiconn> You need to compile the 'glue' binary, or at least that was necessary when I tried last time, some months ago
23.50.23 #       <tvelocity[away]> nvidia glx?
23.50.28 #       <rasher> which distro?
23.50.33 #       <tvelocity[away]> that works perfectly man
23.50.34 #       <amiconn> Couldn't do that because the distro even refused to install the kernel sources
23.50.56 #       <amiconn> And without kernel sources -> no compilation possible
23.51.07 #       <rasher> *nod*, which distro was this?
23.51.20 #       <amiconn> SuSE 9.0
23.51.27 #       <rasher> oh
23.51.29 #       <tvelocity[away]> OMG! a rpm-based distro!
23.51.37 #       <rasher> I know exactly nothing about suse
23.51.40 #       <HCl> suse.
23.51.40 #       <HCl> ew.
23.51.41 #       <tvelocity[away]> BAD BAD BAD! BURN IT:P
23.51.45 #       <kergoth> hah
23.51.47 #       <HCl> i have a server that i'm supposed to manage
23.51.48 #       <HCl> that runs suse
23.51.57 #       <rasher> tvelocity[away]: dude.. it's a package system..
23.51.59 #       * amiconn is about to try debian now (on vmware)
23.52.06 #       <HCl> debian is nice.
23.52.09 #       <kergoth> rpm itself isnt that bad.  just happens that all of the rpm based distros are _redhat_ derived.
23.52.10 #       <HCl> i run debian on my server
23.52.14 #       <kergoth> which is the issue
23.52.28 #       <tvelocity[away]> rasher, yes, a very BAD one :P
23.52.29 #       <amiconn> SuSE isn't redhat derived
23.52.32 #       <HCl> ubuntu is okay for workstation-linux since it has newer stuff and x.org
23.52.45 #       <rasher> tvelocity[away]: why's that?
23.53.06 #       <kergoth> amiconn: eh?
23.53.10 #       <mirak> amiconn: if you have always the very last hardware linux will not be  ok for sure
23.53.20 #       <tvelocity[away]> rasher, i don't even know where to start. it's SO broken
23.53.28 #       <HCl> well.
23.53.39 #       <mirak> amiconn: but this will evolve
23.53.40 #       <HCl> since i've had 0 problems with debian packages and countless with rpms.
23.53.43 #       <rasher> I... see.
23.53.52 #       <amiconn> I don't have the very last hardware. No interest in that, because of no (3d) gaming
23.53.52 #       <HCl> i have no choice but to agree with tvelocity[away] as far as my experience goes.
23.54.01 #       <rasher> Thing is.. debs expect a centralized package repository
23.54.04 #       <rasher> more or less
23.54.05 #       <mirak> amiconn: if I use linux, it's mostly because some of the softaware are the best, like the mp3 player amarok
23.54.09 #       <HCl> yes.
23.54.12 #       <kergoth> rasher: ?
23.54.12 #       <mirak> gaim, xchat
23.54.16 #       <mirak> etcetera
23.54.20 #       <tvelocity[away]> if apt-rpm and URPM didnt exist, RPM would have died a long time ago
23.54.40 #       <rasher> kergoth: Depending on packages and package-versions, rather than files, as rpm (can)
23.54.54 #       <tvelocity[away]> but even these are just ugly hacks not a real solution to the rpm problem
23.54.56 #       <kergoth> rasher: ah, indeed.  i do like that feature of rpm
23.55.07 #       <kergoth> which is part of why i say the problem is redhatisms, not rpm itself
23.55.16 #       <kergoth> the .spec format is really quite well done, for example.
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23.55.20 #       <kergoth> cant say i'm a fan of cpio, but hey
23.55.31 #       <mirak> amiconn: if you remove from windows the games, I don't see much things in favor of windowsw
23.55.35 #       <tvelocity[away]> i will agree about the .spec
23.55.47 #       <mirak> I agree wifi stuff may be a problem :)
23.55.53 #       <mirak> but I don't have this
23.56.00 #       <rasher> urmp is exactly analog to apt
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23.56.11 #       <mirak> it's to technologicaly advanced for me :)
23.56.21 #       <rasher> I seriously don't see how you can claim one being better than the other
23.56.29 #       <kergoth> the latest rpm versions are actually using sqlite for their db now :D
23.56.33 #       <kergoth> down with berkeley db!
23.56.46 #       <amiconn> mirak: Well, windows just runs, while linux requires a fair amount of work to make it work
23.56.58 #       <rasher> berkeley db is ... annoying
23.57.00 #       <amiconn> Then there are many more programs for windows than for linux
23.57.05 #       <mirak> amiconn: still to much yes
23.57.11 #       <mirak> amiconn: but see OS X
23.57.16 #       <amiconn> (Especially *not*counting the games)
23.57.18 #       <rasher> breaking compatibility ever other point release
23.57.18 #       <mirak> amiconn: it's based on BSD
23.57.27 #       <mirak> amiconn: that's a proof that's it's feasible
23.57.44 #       <kergoth> heh, nowadays you can run just about everything in wine, even ms office, IE, and most modern games
23.57.49 #       <kergoth> but yeah, still not quite there
23.57.55 #       <mirak> amiconn: it's like linux world is just realising that making things that just work can be a good idea
23.58.08 #       <rasher> os x really has an advantage in not having to bother with hardware support much
23.58.23 #       <rasher> as in, there's a finite set of devices and configurations to support
23.58.35 #       <mirak> kergoth: I barealy can run something with wine
23.58.37 #       <mirak> I mean games
23.58.44 #       <mirak> I managed to make run winrar
23.58.47 #       <mirak> that's usefull
23.58.57 #       <rasher> oh but it is :)
23.59.00 #       <kergoth> i've run a number of directx8 games.  not 9, but 8