--- Log for 23.08.105  Server: kornbluth.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 2 days and 4 hours ago

00.00.28 #       <Shebb> to get it to work you will require a .lrc file in the same directory as the file you are playing
00.00.29 #       <Shebb> http://www.geocities.com/henriksens2710/lyrics.c
00.00.47 #       <Shebb> named the same as the file you are playing just wil .lrc as its extension
00.01.22 #       <stripwax_> Hm, I like the idea (on the mailing list) about 'unboosting' to 11Mhz if we've been stuck at 48Mhz for a while.
00.01.32 Join    webguest77 [0] (n=d5ee4e12@labb.contactor.se)
00.01.38 #       <stripwax_> So I guess my games plugins didn't make it into the feature freeze  :-(
00.01.45 #       <stripwax_> ^plugins^patches  (sorry)
00.02.56 Quit    Shebb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00.03.00 Join    randname [0] (n=5271043c@labb.contactor.se)
00.03.09 Nick    randname is now known as Shbb (n=5271043c@labb.contactor.se)
00.03.40 Nick    Shbb is now known as Shebb (n=5271043c@labb.contactor.se)
00.04.18 #       <Shebb> I used: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/6086/ALLLyrics/A_Ha_Take_on_me.zip which is correct
00.04.57 #       <LinusN> stripwax_: which ones?
00.06.14 #       <stripwax_> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1239851 (which I think amiconn was looking at) and http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1264727 (which is pretty recent)
00.06.44 #       <stripwax_> Although - is iriver not part of 2.5?  if not I guess it's not relevant anyway
00.08.56 #       <Shebb> patches like those are nice for the cvs users though
00.09.30 #       <stripwax_> definitely!
00.09.47 #       <Shebb> And as they almost like optimisions or fixes couldn't they get through the freeze?
00.10.24 #       <stripwax_> If iriver isn't part of 2.5 it's not important
00.10.46 #       <stripwax_> (I'm not sure if it is or isn't -  it's not very clear)
00.12.26 #       <LinusN> Shebb: i created my own elapsed display plugin, and it is accurate
00.12.41 #       <Shebb> No its not, the iriver port will be released when all the completion things are done
00.12.58 #       <Shebb> LinusN: What did you do different from me?
00.13.04 #       <LinusN> Shebb: your time display is not based on the real elapsed time
00.13.17 #       <LinusN> int t = mint;
00.14.08 #       <LinusN> first of all, don't add the latency
00.14.39 #       <LinusN> hmm, you display a lot of different times :-)
00.14.46 #       <Shebb> that was just a test thing I should have removed that
00.14.58 #       <Shebb> the important one is the top one by the while(1)
00.15.09 #       <Shebb> that is based off file->elapsed
00.15.25 #       <Shebb> if you ignor the latency which should not be there
00.16.50 #       <LinusN> i now pasted your code into my plugin, and i don't see any difference from the wps
00.19.01 #       <Shebb> I will get my build right up to date... I need to start using cvs to make this easier
00.21.37 Part    stripwax_
00.25.41 #       <hardeep> is the elapsed time on the wps accurate though?  I know there's a fudge factor added to the resume offset in the playback code
00.27.35 #       <Moos> Hi hardeep, what's about your idea to add the patch about a warn if dynamic playlist modified ?
00.28.02 #       <hardeep> Moos: Yeah, I liked that patch... just didn't get around to committing it
00.28.12 #       <hardeep> will have to wait until after 2.5 is released now
00.28.17 #       <Moos> ah ok :)
00.29.53 #       <LinusN> hardeep: yes, the pcm buffer latency
00.30.39 #       <LinusN> but the "elapsed" time in the id3 struct is the same whether it is read by the wps or a plugin
00.32.12 #       <Shebb> Ok I can be more specific now
00.32.35 #       <Shebb> If I stop playback then play my song the laggin will occur
00.33.12 #       <Shebb> however, if I rewind the audio file whilst it is playing
00.33.20 #       <Shebb> then restart my plugin
00.33.28 #       <Shebb> My plugin will show the correct time
00.34.00 #       <LinusN> weird, i start a file, then start the plugin
00.34.07 #       <LinusN> shows the correct time
00.35.38 #       <Shebb> no, each time I stop and restart playback I have the wrong time until I rewind the audio a little
00.35.52 #       <Shebb> this is the latest cvs
00.35.58 #       <Shebb> with only my pluggin added
00.40.56 #       <LinusN> running your plugin now
00.41.44 #       <LinusN> the .lrc file says "we're talking away" is at 0:36:0, but both the wps and your plugin time display say it happens on 0:34:0
00.42.10 #       <LinusN> but i don't see a difference between the wps and your plugin
00.43.38 #       <LinusN> funny, the lyrics catch up later in the song
00.47.09 #       <Shebb> If you play that, then rewind the audio
00.47.24 #       <Shebb> Do the starting lyrics match up as they should?
00.47.26 #       <Shebb> They do for me
00.47.45 #       <Shebb> "we're talking away" happens on 36 for me if I do that
00.47.58 Quit    Strath ("Client closed")
00.48.27 #       <LinusN> happens at the very same time even if i rewind
00.48.45 Quit    thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.48.58 #       <LinusN> and the lyrics have the correct time later in the song
00.49.27 #       <Shebb> Strange, I do not like different behaviour
00.49.50 #       <LinusN> is your file by any chance vbr?
00.50.33 #       <Shebb> no
00.50.39 #       <Shebb> straight 256
00.51.56 #       <LinusN> mine is straight 128
00.52.08 Quit    markun ()
00.52.32 #       <Shebb> Shall we exchange?  Since we both own them I guess that would not be illegal...
00.57.12 Quit    Moos (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so good")
01.04.01 Quit    DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01.05.17 #       <LinusN> Shebb: i /msg:d you
01.07.18 #       <Shebb> Thanks! I will have to email I think
01.07.26 #       <Shebb> What is your addres?
01.08.36 Quit    ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01.09.42 #       <LinusN> linus at haxx dot se
01.10.08 #       <Shebb> thanks
01.10.36 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01.11.05 #       <Shebb> I have tried your file and I get exactly your problems
01.14.59 #       <Shebb> Strange, my start will realign when I rewind, your start never aligns
01.18.47 #       <Shebb> I am going to test out some different audio files...
01.19.20 Quit    ashridah ("Leaving")
01.27.05 #       <Shebb> Smells like teen spirit, mp3 straight 224 works fine
01.30.25 Join    TCK [0] (i=TCK@81-86-99-234.dsl.pipex.com)
01.33.28 #       <Shebb> Kashmir, mp3 vbr 237 avg works fine too
01.38.16 #       <LinusN> gotta sleep, cu tomorrow
01.38.22 Part    LinusN
01.40.06 #       <Shebb> Well there seems to be some slight bug in the elapsed time...
01.51.45 Quit    pike ()
02.18.58 Join    Strath [0] (n=mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a195.wi.tds.net)
02.19.21 Quit    hicks (Remote closed the connection)
02.21.22 Quit    Shebb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02.21.43 Join    pike [0] (i=pike@c83-249-120-126.bredband.comhem.se)
02.24.54 Part    arp
02.40.51 Join    Febs [0] (n=Febs@207-172-122-81.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com)
03.03.35 Join    webguest68 [0] (n=43aeb3f1@labb.contactor.se)
03.04.01 #       <webguest68> how do i turn radio off on ihp 120 i'm getting radio and ogg playback at same time!
03.04.14 #       <Febs> Press stop while on the radio screen.
03.04.34 #       <webguest68> cool tdhat was weird
03.05.07 #       <webguest68> how can i reshuffle playlist?
03.05.33 #       <Febs> Do you mean in the middle of the playlist, or have it reshuffle when it is done?
03.05.41 #       <webguest68> in the middle
03.05.54 #       <Febs> Try re-loading it.
03.06.33 #       <webguest68> does rockbox use same ogg codec as orig firmware?
03.09.32 #       <Febs> As far as I know, no.  Rockbox was not based on the original firmware at all.  I don't know if anyone even knows what the original firmware used.
03.10.40 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03.12.29 Join    phaedrus96 [0] (n=Unknown@p54AE3B13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03.15.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I thought it was assumed it used Tremor?
03.17.32 #       <Febs> Could be.  Like I said, I don't know one way or another.
03.19.18 Join    billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S01060090f800ae8a.ed.shawcable.net)
03.19.24 #       <webguest68> sounds cleaner to me
03.20.02 #       <billytwowilly> hey, how do I delete files on the handheld without hooking it up via usb?
03.21.01 #       <webguest68> is there a quick way to scroll to bottom of dir list?
03.22.15 #       <Febs> webguest68, just press the up button at the top of the directory.
03.23.00 #       <webguest68> ah i see
03.23.06 #       <webguest68> if you're holding it it doesn't do it
03.23.31 Quit    Xetrov ("random chances operate in my favour")
03.23.37 #       <billytwowilly> my rockbox thinks it has a read only filesystem when i mount it. even if I chmod it.
03.23.41 #       <billytwowilly> how do I fix this?
03.26.00 #       <Febs> billytwowilly, not sure about your 2nd question, but as to the first, I believe delete is in the file menu.  Navigate to the file, press and hold select, and when the file menu appears, choose "delete."
03.28.34 #       <billytwowilly> I don't have select. I  have a archos jukebox 6000
03.28.41 Quit    phaedrus961 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03.30.05 #       <webguest68> is there a quick way to turn shuffling off
03.31.18 #       <webguest68> so everything's based off a playlist?
03.32.12 #       <Febs> billytwowilly, press ON+PLAY or press and hold PLAY.
03.32.21 #       <Febs> webguest68, yes.
03.32.22 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Webguest68: General Settings -> Playback, top of the list.
03.33.40 #       <webguest68> record button does nothing right now?
03.33.47 #       <Febs> webguest68, you can also toggle shuffle from the quick menu.  Press and hold the A-B button.
03.34.53 #       <webguest68> nice
03.35.04 #       <webguest68> rockbox..well rocks
03.36.10 #       <Febs> Much of this stuff is in the manual.  The manual is for the Archos models, but much of it applies to iriver, and you can use this wiki page to figure out the correct buttons:  http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonAssignments
03.36.46 #       <Febs> Or you can look in the wiki manual, although that is very much a work in progress:  http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GeneralFAQ?topic=WikiManual
03.37.27 #       * Paul_The_Nerd always forgets about the quick menus.
03.37.47 #       * Febs contemplates writing some more of the wiki manual.
03.40.31 #       <webguest68> what do you guys develop on linux?
03.43.00 Quit    hardeep ("[BX] Have you huggled your BitchX today?")
03.43.42 Quit    Strath ("Client closed")
04.03.41 Nick    phaedrus96 is now known as phaedrus961 (n=Unknown@p54AE3B13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04.05.43 Quit    webguest68 ("CGI:IRC")
04.58.13 Join    bagawk [0] (n=lee@67-42-194-6.eugn.qwest.net)
05.10.42 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05.55.03 Quit    Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]")
06.32.25 Quit    bagawk ("Leaving")
06.34.17 Join    ReKleSS [0] (n=ReKleSS@c211-28-49-165.mckinn1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
06.41.33 Quit    dionoea (Remote closed the connection)
06.48.56 Join    dionoea [0] (n=dionoea@muscipula152.via.ecp.fr)
06.55.28 Join    tvelocity [0] (n=tony@chan530-a204.otenet.gr)
07.10.44 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07.15.40 Join    LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se)
07.29.50 #       <Bger> morning :)
07.32.48 #       <t0mas> morning
07.33.02 #       <tvelocity> morning
07.38.09 #       <LinusN> mooooooooning
07.38.29 #       <Bger> :))))
07.39.15 #       <t0mas> *yawns*
07.39.18 #       <t0mas> time to go
07.40.27 Join    Gibbed [0] (i=rick@pool-71-108-13-161.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
07.40.29 Quit    Rick (Nick collision from services.)
07.40.41 Nick    Gibbed is now known as Rick (i=rick@pool-71-108-13-161.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
07.47.25 Join    thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s201a.studby.ntnu.no)
08.06.42 #       <amiconn> mornthing
08.14.03 Join    ender` [0] (i=ychat@tm.213.143.74.124.dc.telemach.net)
08.16.23 #       <CoCoLUS> hmm
08.16.40 Join    webguest88 [0] (n=c0a5d512@labb.contactor.se)
08.16.54 #       <CoCoLUS> these new creative x-fi soundcards are getting quite good reviews...
08.17.26 Quit    webguest88 (Client Quit)
08.19.49 #       <tvelocity> creative soundcards always get good reviews...
08.19.54 #       <tvelocity> but they still suck
08.19.55 #       <tvelocity> :P
08.23.32 #       <CoCoLUS> sounds like a prejudice :P
08.23.55 #       <tvelocity> it is:P
08.24.36 #       <CoCoLUS> they are a bit pricey, though
08.27.49 #       <amiconn> LinusN: You idea to simply cut the HD power on a crash to avoid it spinning all the time should be good enough, although it will probably cause the HD to perform an emergency park
08.28.00 #       <amiconn> Crashes shouldn't happen too often
08.28.43 #       <amiconn> Btw, we have 2 places where dead-end crashes are handled: panic() and UIE()
08.29.39 #       <amiconn> The handling of button check for rebbooting, powering down HD, setting low CPU frequency etc for these 2 places should be unified
08.32.05 #       <CoCoLUS> reminds me of the worst case scenario... happend to me yesterday, while i was in the train, rb hang, disk kept spinning
08.32.22 #       <CoCoLUS> and i had nothing small enough with me to press the reset button :)
08.33.46 #       <CoCoLUS> let me tell you, that thing gets -hot- aber running continously for an hour
08.33.51 #       <CoCoLUS> after
08.34.42 #       <amiconn> I know
08.35.49 #       <amiconn> Elevated temperatures will shorten the lifetime of a LiIon battery... bad
08.35.56 #       <CoCoLUS> nice
08.36.40 #       <CoCoLUS> but what could i've done...
08.37.35 #       <CoCoLUS> i tried fidgeting a "pin" out of some paper tissue i had with me... then i tried to bend the keychain... nothing was small enough to fit in the reset hole
08.37.58 #       <CoCoLUS> sure was funny as hell for the seat neighbour...
08.39.30 #       <CoCoLUS> you think that one-hour-long experience will noticable shorten the liftetime of the battery?
08.44.36 #       <amiconn> Probably not
08.56.39 #       <ReKleSS> anyone know anything about the simulator FPE thing yet?
08.59.09 #       <amiconn> LinusN: I see someone upgraded sh-elf-gcc on the site... :-)
09.01.24 #       <ReKleSS> ...wtf, rockboxui dies before it even reaches _init()
09.05.30 Join    einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
09.10.48 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09.14.38 #       <Bger> ReKleSS: gentoo ?
09.20.58 #       <ReKleSS> Bger: yep
09.21.08 #       <Bger> known problem
09.21.27 #       <Bger> it gives you FP exception, yeah ?
09.21.40 Join    webguest45 [0] (n=51bd66f1@labb.contactor.se)
09.22.00 #       <Bger> search in the irc logs starting from last week ...
09.22.27 #       <webguest45> hi, i was wondering if it would be possible to have a feature in the playlist to empty the whole playlist ?
09.22.59 #       <webguest45> or am I missing something, there is no other way than to manually remove one song after the other right ?
09.26.38 #       <ReKleSS> Bger: ok
09.27.02 #       <Bger> ReKleSS: starting from last week backward ...
09.28.42 Join    B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se)
09.31.14 #       <webguest45> RTFM ?
09.32.07 #       <ReKleSS> Bger: I've found something about it, about glibc 2.3.4 working and 2.3.5 not
09.32.24 #       <Bger> search in www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WikiManual
09.32.33 #       <Bger> ReKleSS: read more ...
09.32.38 #       <ReKleSS> bah, just upgrade glibc
09.32.49 #       <Bger> i think it was working at last :)
09.33.31 #       <ReKleSS> would that be worth a todo list entry?
09.37.00 #       <webguest45> hmm, sorry for being thick, but I cant find anything in the manual. 
09.37.10 #       <LinusN> ReKleSS: todo for what?
09.37.33 #       <ReKleSS> errr
09.37.34 #       <ReKleSS> faq
09.37.35 #       <LinusN> webguest45: no, there is no way of clearing the playlist
09.37.35 #       <ReKleSS> entry
09.38.13 #       <Bger> ReKleSS: maybe it's good idea:)
09.42.36 Join    ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-122-9.VIC.netspace.net.au)
09.44.14 Quit    tvelocity ("Leaving")
09.49.39 #       <webguest45> wouldn't that be really handy, and easy to implement ?
09.49.56 #       <webguest45> have I missed the featue freeze ?
09.50.46 #       <B4gder> you're right in it!
09.53.41 #       <B4gder> good to see the fm build fit within 200K now
09.54.56 #       <CoCoLUS> if i would want to write an entry into a textfile for every file thats played longer than 40 percent, where would such code fit best? :)
09.55.31 #       <B4gder> it should use the same logic the runtimedb already does, imho
09.55.56 #       <CoCoLUS> hcl wrote that, right?
09.56.00 #       <B4gder> but it would requires some new thinking if we want to be able to choose what runtime code to run
09.56.22 #       <CoCoLUS> i'm still avid about that audioscrobbler
09.56.28 #       <B4gder> hcl wrote the runtimedb parts, Slasher added the callbacks and amiconn did them for the archos parts
09.57.42 #       <CoCoLUS> i know hcl did already implement "times played" into his db
09.57.53 Join    Lynx_ [0] (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de)
09.58.16 #       <CoCoLUS> however, audioscrobbler plugins are supposed to only count tracks played longer than 40%/240 seconds
09.58.16 #       <ReKleSS> o_O
09.58.27 #       <ReKleSS> dev-libs/glib-2.6.4
09.58.42 #       <ReKleSS> err
09.58.43 #       <ReKleSS> wrong one
09.58.44 #       <ReKleSS> n/m
09.59.11 #       <B4gder> CoCoLUS: yes, but either that code should be corrected to do the same, or we should work out a way to allow a user to chose what runtime code/counter to use
10.00.47 #       <CoCoLUS> asking hcl to implement it into his code seems a lot easier
10.01.08 #       <LinusN> CoCoLUS: don't hold your breath, hcl isn't very active nowadays...
10.01.16 #       <CoCoLUS> i noticed
10.01.25 #       <LinusN> that bothers me
10.01.29 #       <CoCoLUS> why?
10.01.33 #       <B4gder> the whole runtimedb is in limbo
10.01.42 #       <LinusN> we might have to remove the runtimedb from the release
10.01.54 #       <LinusN> and the database plugins
10.02.52 #       <CoCoLUS> would be a shame; maybe some other dev would be willing to look after those parts?
10.03.08 #       <LinusN> let's hope so
10.03.36 #       <B4gder> unfortunately all those are very undocumented
10.03.48 #       <B4gder> so its a lot of reading up
10.04.06 #       <B4gder> actually, I don't think it is so much of a shame
10.04.13 #       <B4gder> since this is the situation right now
10.04.22 #       <B4gder> and we don't see many people asking for this
10.04.25 #       <B4gder> thus no one uses it
10.04.29 #       <B4gder> and no one will miss it
10.04.42 #       <B4gder> !
10.04.52 #       <CoCoLUS> maybe it works so flawlessly nobody complains? :)
10.04.55 #       <LinusN> how could they use it? afaik, nobody knows how to...
10.05.07 #       <B4gder> CoCoLUS: you ever used it?
10.05.59 #       <CoCoLUS> nope, and i'm not going to, however, as i said, i'm avid about that audioscrobbler idea, and if hcls already existing code could provide support with only some small changes...
10.06.18 #       <B4gder> I agree
10.06.27 #       <B4gder> I would personally like to extract stats from it
10.06.45 #       <Bger> imho the idea behind the runtimedb is good, but it needs more work on it ...
10.07.02 #       <Bger> at least for documentation/bugfixes
10.07.24 #       <CoCoLUS> there's no way for rockbox to actually "look at" the files transfered during usb mode, is there?
10.07.33 #       <B4gder> no
10.08.08 #       <Bger> CoCoLUS: rockbox doesn't have controll over the hard disk once the player is attached to computer
10.08.12 #       <CoCoLUS> because if rb would build the database transparently during/after transfer, the whole db-thing would be a lot easier to handle... no perl/java scripts, etc.
10.08.18 #       <Bger> s/controll/control
10.08.30 #       <Bger> CoCoLUS: no way
10.08.39 #       <B4gder> well, there's a C implementation partly done
10.09.35 #       <LinusN> another one of those hit-and-run commits... :-)
10.09.45 #       <B4gder> but he said that before he committed
10.09.49 #       <LinusN> yes i know
10.09.50 #       <B4gder> I asked him to commit
10.10.45 #       <LinusN> i played with a pre-alpha of the lyrics plugin yesterday, quite amusing
10.11.00 #       <B4gder> did you sort out the time problem?
10.11.06 #       <CoCoLUS> jeez, sounds like the original firmware
10.11.07 #       <LinusN> i can't make it happen
10.11.21 #       <LinusN> not with my mp3 and not with his
10.11.29 #       <B4gder> odd
10.11.32 #       <LinusN> indeed
10.12.05 #       <CoCoLUS> is lyrics support actually wanted by users?
10.12.16 #       <LinusN> i think so
10.12.22 #       <LinusN> and it's a fun toy
10.12.28 #       <B4gder> its fun
10.12.31 #       <B4gder> karoake time!
10.12.32 #       <B4gder> ;-)
10.12.56 #       <CoCoLUS> i'd rather see the darth vader vocoder :P
10.13.20 #       <B4gder> we are many, we can do them all
10.13.28 #       <LinusN> now *that* would be much more useful than lyrics support, wouldn't it? :-)
10.13.52 #       <CoCoLUS> well if we are on the topic of practically useless additions... ;)
10.13.55 #       <B4gder> "finally a music player that can make me sound like darth vader" ;-)
10.14.24 #       <LinusN> in the feature comparison table as well
10.14.36 #       <B4gder> yes, that's be very good in the table
10.14.37 #       <LinusN> Darth Vader mode: Yes No No
10.14.49 #       * B4gder giggles
10.14.57 #       <CoCoLUS> although i would not look away from a decent equalizer as well
10.15.17 #       <B4gder> then you better start hacking!
10.15.20 #       <LinusN> that will definitely come
10.15.30 #       <LinusN> i have faith in preglow
10.15.55 #       <CoCoLUS> b4gder, you should have noticed by now, i'd rather complain then code :P
10.16.02 #       <B4gder> hehe
10.16.03 #       <LinusN> that was his initial goal, before he got trapped in codec optimizing hell
10.16.26 #       <B4gder> and I don't think we should let him out of that cage just yet
10.16.32 #       <LinusN> oh no
10.16.49 #       <CoCoLUS> i guess he already got nightmares about that... trapped in the infinite darkness between assembler and emac, or whatever
10.17.38 Join    kurzhaarrocker [0] (n=Phil@p509084D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
10.17.45 #       <epl> Has anyone ever talked about creating a integer encoder for OGG?
10.18.13 #       <B4gder> it wouldn't surprise me
10.18.14 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Thank you LinusN for committing the a-b repeat patch. Finally another _useful_ feature for rockbox.
10.18.45 #       <LinusN> kurzhaarrocker: long time between the useful additions nowadays, eh? :-)
10.19.37 #       <webguest45> after the Darth Vader mode, do you think you could implement "Playlist reset" ?
10.19.43 #       <CoCoLUS> seems reasonable though, during a feature freeze period ;)
10.19.43 #       <kurzhaarrocker> Well - obviously its more fun to investigate new hardware architectures. (which is a good thing, too)
10.19.43 #       <B4gder> I would actually go for any good lossy format integer-encoder
10.20.16 #       <webguest45> hmm, just thinking, as a workaround, could I not just load an empty playlist ?
10.20.46 #       <LinusN> webguest45: try it
10.21.33 #       <CoCoLUS> be sure to have something small at hand, though, something that fits into the reset hole ;)
10.23.02 #       <webguest45> hmm, just realized, just off/on empties the current playlist
10.23.18 #       <webguest45> not too elegant, but working
10.24.16 Quit    kurzhaarrocker (Remote closed the connection)
10.27.57 #       <CoCoLUS> so, i guess i have to delay the coding of my scrobblerbox-audioscrobbler-plugin :(
10.31.03 #       <B4gder> why?
10.32.14 #       <CoCoLUS> because of the obviously imminent removal of hcls code?
10.32.53 #       <B4gder> well, if the situation would be changed, the situation would be... eh, changed
10.33.12 #       <B4gder> in its current state it is useless
10.33.16 #       <CoCoLUS> i really have no problem coding the helper/submitting tool for the pc, but that whole playback code/runtime db thing is over my head
10.35.19 #       <CoCoLUS> not everyone is an embedded device professional ;)
10.35.36 #       <B4gder> you sure? all my friends are! ;-P
10.36.30 #       <CoCoLUS> that's... fine ;)
10.40.52 Join    BBub_ [0] (i=belzebub@dsl-084-059-234-122.arcor-ip.net)
10.44.11 #       <amiconn> LinusN: I don't think the runtimedb code should be removed for release
10.44.44 #       <amiconn> Removing it might introduce other bugs, and the runtimedb code seems to run quite stable
10.45.10 #       <amiconn> There is some documentation as well, and using the database isn't too difficult either
10.45.18 #       <B4gder> you used it?
10.45.35 #       <amiconn> B4gder: Obviously I had to, since I wrote the arhos hooks
10.45.39 #       <amiconn> *archos
10.46.08 #       <B4gder> true
10.46.23 #       <B4gder> but saying it isn't too difficult is an understatement imho
10.46.37 #       <B4gder> its hard as hell
10.46.41 #       <amiconn> Huh?
10.46.48 #       <B4gder> enabling the db is easy
10.46.53 #       <B4gder> playing music is easy
10.46.56 #       <B4gder> but then...
10.47.02 #       <amiconn> Just enable it, and it will collect runtime data if you have a suitable tagdb
10.47.06 #       <B4gder> how the heck do you search or extract data from it?
10.47.16 #       <amiconn> (suitable == containing hashes)
10.47.21 #       <B4gder> I know that
10.47.23 #       <B4gder> I've done that
10.47.49 #       <B4gder> I gave up the last part though
10.48.13 #       <amiconn> You can then make search request files with databox
10.48.31 #       <B4gder> if you understand it
10.48.45 #       <B4gder> I guess I wasn't motivated enough
10.49.03 #       <amiconn> Running them will start searchengine, which will run the request against the tagdb and rundb, and generate search.m3u containing the result
10.49.07 #       <B4gder> but I don't think many users will be able to penetrate that
10.49.26 #       <amiconn> databox is quite simple, although a bit cumbersome in some points
10.49.46 #       <B4gder> I felt like I was tricked into a maze
10.49.52 #       <amiconn> Huh?
10.50.14 #       <B4gder> trying things blindly
10.50.14 #       <amiconn> Databox itself is quite logical, just some details need to be made more user friendly
10.50.29 #       <B4gder> hoping it would be what I thought it is
10.50.56 #       <amiconn> Like, we need a simple number entry screen. Currently databox uses the vkeyboard, which is sub-optimal for numbers
10.51.19 #       <amiconn> And, our vkeyboard should have a caption saying what to enter
10.51.29 #       <Bger> maybe something with up-down buttons (inc/dec)
10.51.44 #       <Bger> amiconn: and maybe a "charset"
10.51.44 #       <amiconn> Yes, and left-right to choose the position
10.51.54 #       <Bger> yep :)
10.52.45 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (n=d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
10.52.49 #       <B4gder> well, feel free to document what you know about this then because you seem to understand and know a lot more than me about these things
10.53.01 #       <B4gder> I ran away screaming
10.53.10 #       <Bger> B4gder: don't run too far :)
10.53.16 #       <amiconn> There is just one problem unsolved with databox, and that is you can't really enter requests that don't fit the screen, because you won't see what you select
10.53.17 #       <B4gder> :-)
10.53.24 #       <amiconn> This is a real problem on the player
10.53.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hi guys
10.53.55 #       <B4gder> hi [IDC]Dragon
10.54.20 #       <amiconn> B4gder: Just ask me what you don't understand, because I wouldn't know what needs more documentation.
10.54.49 #       <CoCoLUS> amiconn, since you seem to have a deeper understanding, what do you think, how much work would this "only count when 40% played" idea be?
10.54.58 #       <Bger> btw, i must agree with B4gder that on first sight the things look very complicated ...
10.55.06 #       <B4gder> amiconn: 1) a link from tha runtimedatabase wiki page to a page describing how to use the runtimedatabase to start with
10.55.07 #       <amiconn> I can only repeat myself. Databox is quite logical, you basically 'click together' an if() condition
10.55.13 Join    ghode [0] (n=c0a5d512@labb.contactor.se)
10.55.21 Quit    webguest45 ("CGI:IRC")
10.55.26 #       <B4gder> databox has no docs what so ever afaik
10.55.45 #       * [IDC]Dragon is completely disconnected, no idea what you're talking about  :-/
10.55.46 #       <Bger> amiconn: maybe the best is to write a user-end friendly doc...
10.55.52 #       <ghode> Hmm i use the runtime db all the time...
10.55.56 #       <Bger> [IDC]Dragon: about databox ... runtime db
10.56.04 #       <ghode> its pretty much explained on the wiki
10.56.25 #       <B4gder> the concepts are described, yes
10.56.28 #       <B4gder> not how to use it
10.56.30 #       * [IDC]Dragon vaguely remembers something he never tried
10.57.05 #       <[IDC]Dragon> this is not ID3, but a dictionary or so, right?
10.57.10 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: You can try now, even without an iriver :)
10.57.27 #       <B4gder> [IDC]Dragon: it stores info about run-time info, what songs that have been played etc
10.57.54 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, so no "unrelated" db
10.58.08 Quit    BBub (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10.58.08 Nick    BBub_ is now known as BBub (i=belzebub@dsl-084-059-234-122.arcor-ip.net)
10.58.33 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I came back for a minute to help Bootbox into v2.5
10.58.49 #       <CoCoLUS> is there a way for plugins to read this runtime db, ie, is it in the plugin api?
10.58.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> it's all ready now
10.59.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> today I've built images for all the Archos targets
11.00.02 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and fixed the ROM start addresses to Bootbox requirements (not yet committed)
11.00.04 #       <amiconn> Did you use latest cvs for that, i.e. containing yesterday's standby fix for USB mode?
11.00.26 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, I've built it this morning
11.01.19 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: I want to do 2 more things for full bootbox support, and work against our current code size tightness
11.01.31 #       <[IDC]Dragon> which is?
11.01.41 #       <amiconn> (1) Integrate ROM saving into firmware_flash, and remove it from the debug menu
11.01.57 #       <amiconn> (2) Add the start address check for rombox images to rockbox_flash
11.02.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (2) is done
11.02.16 #       <amiconn> Okay, nice :)
11.02.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I needed to link that address into the image
11.02.47 Quit    ghode ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
11.02.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> see rom.lds
11.03.44 #       <amiconn> Looks like a clean way, but would not have been necessary
11.03.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I hope I didn't violate the feature freeze
11.04.14 #       <amiconn> We could just have used the start address from the vector table
11.04.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> that is the reset vector, not the start address
11.04.46 #       <amiconn> We know the offset from start of image is constant as long as we don't change the linking convention
11.04.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> brr
11.05.23 #       <amiconn> brr?
11.05.43 #       <[IDC]Dragon> isn't the reset vector pointing anywhere?
11.05.59 #       <amiconn> I'm not talking about the reset vector
11.06.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> relying on that would rely on code ordering, optimization, etc.
11.07.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> afaik there is no such thing as a start address in the vector table
11.08.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> about (1): there is also a "proposal" to unite the 2 flash plugins
11.08.49 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and perhaps make a really user-frienly "suite" from it
11.10.50 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11.12.36 Join    [-AIR-] [0] (n=air@bassist.alpharoad.co.uk)
11.12.48 #       <amiconn> Yes, it relies on the code ordering, but only on the fact that .init.text will stay directly behind .vectors
11.12.56 #       <[-AIR-]> hey. the the irvier flash plugin for updating the firmware in rockbox ?
11.13.09 #       <[-AIR-]> this one: 	apps/plugins/firmware_flash.c
11.13.10 #       <[-AIR-]> ?
11.13.18 #       <[-AIR-]> bbl2hours
11.13.42 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: ..and the very first entry in the vector table is the start address
11.13.54 #       <amiconn> I checked with the RAM version (easier to check)
11.14.17 #       <amiconn> Image starts at 0x09000000, .init.text section is at 0x09000200
11.14.30 #       <amiconn> First vector table entry is - 0x09000200
11.15.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and the reset vector is the second entry?
11.16.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> doesn't seem so
11.17.22 #       <amiconn> This first entry is the power-on reset vector, and it does point to our start() function
11.17.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'll check later
11.18.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> perhaps the vector just looked odd, since rombox has an extra 0x10 offset to be behind my flash header
11.19.34 #       <amiconn> if (image[0x10] != image_load_addr + 0x210) ...
11.19.39 Join    webguest89 [0] (n=c2489e63@labb.contactor.se)
11.19.47 #       <webguest89> Good Morning
11.20.17 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: would it be possible for you to upload the uart boot files to the wiki
11.20.18 #       <LinusN> ?
11.20.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> perhaps I'll revert and save 4 bytes
11.20.28 #       <LinusN> your site seems to be down
11.20.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I changed the provider
11.20.47 #       <webguest89> I know the iriver is not the reason for the feature freeze, but....
11.20.47 #       <webguest89> while you're in bug fixing mode...
11.20.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and thought they are in wiki
11.20.56 #       <webguest89> On the iriver a number of the confirmation message screens are wrong...
11.20.56 #       <webguest89> For example recursivly inserting a directory in a play list, you are prompted
11.20.56 #       <webguest89> and asked to press PLAY to confirm, it actually wants you to press SELECT
11.20.56 DBUG    Enqueued KICK webguest89
11.20.56 #       <webguest89> there are other similar prompts that I can't remember.
11.20.57 #       <amiconn> LinusN: I gave a current uart_boox package to rooomish
11.21.12 #       <amiconn> I'll wait for confirmation that it works, the I can upload that
11.21.33 #       <B4gder> webguest89: that's a know flaw but no easy/quick fix
11.21.34 #       <amiconn> webguest89: That will be solved with localisation v2
11.21.51 #       <amiconn> ..which will hopefully implemented soon after the 2.5 release
11.22.13 #       <webguest89> OK - ta... I guessed it would be known
11.22.24 Quit    webguest89 (Client Quit)
11.27.08 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: the link to the .zip with uart_boot.exe pointed to http://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/flash/tools/uart_boot.zip
11.27.50 Join    hicks [0] (n=hicks@zeus.mups.co.uk)
11.28.13 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Yes, and http://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/ does no longer exists, already for some months
11.28.27 #       <amiconn> T-Online dropped the old homepage server
11.28.30 #       <LinusN> so it would be nice to have it in the wiki instead
11.28.40 #       <amiconn> [11:20:57] <amiconn> LinusN: I gave a current uart_boox package to rooomish
11.28.41 #       <amiconn> [11:21:12] <amiconn> I'll wait for confirmation that it works, the I can upload that
11.30.24 #       <amiconn> He didn't get it to work yesterday, but that was almost sure because he got the wrong pulldown resistors
11.30.48 #       <amiconn> Pulling down with 10kOhm against 10kOhm pullups won't give low level...
11.33.10 #       <LinusN> yeah, saw that
11.34.40 #       <LinusN> i have seen quite a few jukeboxes where the Rx input is broken in the cpu
11.34.53 #       <LinusN> let's hope his works
11.35.41 #       <amiconn> Hmm. Broken Rx means the remote won't work on such boxes
11.35.52 #       <LinusN> yes
11.36.47 #       <LinusN> hmmm wait a sec
11.37.06 #       <LinusN> when i come to think of it, it has often been the Tx, not Rx
11.37.47 #       <LinusN> i've seen it on two Players and on my FM
11.37.56 #       <LinusN> and one Recorder
11.46.51 Quit    phaedrus961 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11.49.26 #       <ReKleSS> yay, ui simulator working
11.49.43 #       <ReKleSS> ...now I just need to find the controls
11.50.26 #       <LinusN> ReKleSS: good news
11.50.45 #       <LinusN> so a glibc update solved it?
11.51.36 #       <ReKleSS> yep
11.51.37 #       <ReKleSS> blah
11.51.45 #       <ReKleSS> is it just me or is a numpad absolutely necessary?
11.53.18 Join    phaedrus961 [0] (n=Unknown@p54AE3B13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11.56.04 #       <amiconn> ReKleSS: The x11 sim has alternate key assignments which will work without numpad
11.56.23 #       <amiconn> Just look at the console from where you started it
11.56.35 #       <ReKleSS> >.<
11.56.39 #       <ReKleSS> I was looking through the source
11.59.52 Join    midk [0] (n=Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
12.31.32 #       <midk> HAHA, i just remembered the ollitrop "incident"... :) where's adi these days, anyhow?
12.33.15 #       <LinusN> i wish i knew
12.34.10 #       <midk> hm, logbot says he was on last a month ago..
12.44.51 #       <B4gder> logbot is the allknowning oracle
12.46.07 #       <midk> logbot is the fast-tempered, kick-happy whore of the channel. :)
12.47.03 #       <B4gder> "Thou Shalt Not Upset logbot" - old #rockbox saying
12.47.20 #       <midk> fortunately, he doesn't have op.. such a loser... :)
12.48.33 Quit    dionoea (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12.55.31 #       <LinusN> B4gder: does the songdbv2.pl script attempt to preserve the runtime info?
12.56.53 #       <B4gder> you mean v3? ;-)
12.57.10 #       <B4gder> the runtime info is not present in the songdb
12.57.54 #       <LinusN> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DatabaseV2
12.58.20 #       <LinusN> " Basic tagdb generation done, doesn't hash files and doesn't support keeping the runtime db in sync. (yet)"
12.58.30 #       <B4gder> it hashes
12.58.38 #       <B4gder> I don't know what "keeping the runtime db in sync" means
12.58.45 #       <B4gder> and it isn't v2, it is v3
12.59.18 #       <B4gder> but I guess the v number doesn't matter in this case
12.59.36 #       <B4gder> that's just another problem with this db stuff
13.01.37 #       <B4gder> I've updated
13.01.45 #       <LinusN> i wonder where amiconn found the documentation that describes how to use the database plugins?
13.02.08 #       <B4gder> I think he figured it out without docs
13.02.47 #       <LinusN> "B4gder: Just ask me what you don't understand, because I wouldn't know what needs more documentation."
13.02.55 #       <B4gder> ah, right
13.03.02 #       <LinusN> there is obviously some docs that we don't know about
13.03.14 #       <B4gder> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginSearchengine
13.03.22 #       <B4gder> that's the only one I know of
13.03.54 #       <B4gder> and it doesn't explain much of how to use things
13.05.34 #       <LinusN> the database plugin has no docs whatsoeever
13.06.17 #       <B4gder> I
13.06.26 #       <B4gder> 've never understood why they are two and not one
13.07.12 #       <B4gder> is it because it isn't easy to make it both a normal and a viewer perhaps?
13.07.26 #       <LinusN> i think it's so you can save queries as files and then run the search engine as a viewer
13.08.04 #       <LinusN> it's a pity that the query files have a binary format
13.08.20 #       <LinusN> so you can't make queries on your pc
13.08.26 #       <B4gder> that is silly
13.08.30 #       <LinusN> oh yes
13.08.50 #       <B4gder> and it would make sense to ship a few good default searches in the release build
13.08.59 #       <LinusN> yup
13.10.53 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13.11.43 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Some of the usage-howto of the databox plugin can be derived from http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginSearchengine
13.11.56 #       <LinusN> the key is "derived"
13.11.57 #       <amiconn> I figured out the rest
13.12.27 Join    preglow [0] (n=c39fbc99@labb.contactor.se)
13.12.30 #       <amiconn> I'd say it was fairly easy, but the I did some work on databox as well
13.12.35 #       <preglow> hellos, all
13.12.38 #       <amiconn> (The input handling for player)
13.12.46 #       <LinusN> i can imagine that very few end users would figure out how to use it from those docs
13.13.09 #       <B4gder> I'd be very surprised if the amount is more than 5
13.13.13 #       <amiconn> I don't see why the binary search definition format prevents it from being generated on the PC
13.13.21 #       <B4gder> it doesn't prevent it
13.13.28 #       <B4gder> it just makes it hard
13.13.40 #       <B4gder> without justification imho
13.13.41 #       <LinusN> it just forces you to develop a tool for it
13.13.41 #       <amiconn> Huh?
13.13.53 #       <LinusN> i would prefer a text editor
13.13.59 #       <amiconn> Ah, you mean it should be plain ASCII?
13.14.04 #       <LinusN> of course
13.14.05 #       <B4gder> plain text is goodness
13.14.11 #       <amiconn> Hmm.
13.14.16 #       <amiconn> Should be possible...
13.14.53 #       <LinusN> my wife will probably have a hard time with this: "QUERY := MEXPR (SORTBY SORTTYPE (AND SORTTYPE)*)? (CLIPBY CLIPPING)? (SHUFFLE)? EOF"
13.15.04 #       <LinusN> clear as mud
13.15.06 #       <preglow> hahaha
13.15.16 #       <B4gder> :-]
13.15.31 #       <LinusN> and it doesn't even say that i need the databox plugin to create the query
13.15.53 #       <LinusN> you can fogure it out by reading the suggestion at the bottom of the page
13.16.18 #       <preglow> does codec opts count as bugfixes? :-)
13.16.33 #       <LinusN> and i thought the wps language would be intimidating
13.16.45 #       <LinusN> preglow: if we are generous
13.17.11 #       <preglow> i need something to do, don't i
13.17.11 #       <preglow> heh
13.17.12 #       <HCl> oh
13.17.13 #       <HCl> hello
13.17.20 #       <preglow> might as well start working on the eq or something
13.17.23 #       <HCl> well, linus, i actually did write it down in ebnf
13.17.24 #       <B4gder> hehe, there he is
13.17.38 #       <HCl> which is the standard language for writing down languages
13.17.43 #       <LinusN> yes
13.17.43 #       <HCl> computer languages, that is
13.17.47 #       <B4gder> well
13.17.52 #       <B4gder> tell that to my wife
13.17.59 #       <LinusN> :-)
13.18.08 #       <HCl> o.o
13.18.22 #       <LinusN> HCl: out problem is that we will have problems releasing 2.5 with the database as it is now
13.18.46 #       <HCl> why?
13.18.57 #       <B4gder> one word: docs
13.18.58 #       <LinusN> it suffers from severe lack of docs
13.19.19 #       <HCl> i could try to write some, but i'm not too good at writing documentation
13.19.24 #       <LinusN> and the database viewer context menu doesn't work
13.19.38 #       <HCl> wha? o.o
13.19.43 #       <B4gder> you could start by describing how a human actually would use it
13.19.46 #       <HCl> database viewer context menu?
13.20.00 #       <preglow> do we need the manual ready for the release?
13.20.02 #       <preglow> no?
13.20.03 #       <LinusN> push and hold the joystick
13.20.17 #       <LinusN> preglow: that is definitely preferred
13.20.21 #       <HCl> B4gder: its pretty simple, really. you start the databox plugin, enter a filename to edit, then make a search query with the joystick o.o
13.20.35 #       <B4gder> I tried
13.20.36 #       <HCl> then when you're done you click the <end> thing and it writes it to disk
13.20.39 #       <B4gder> I gave up
13.20.43 #       <HCl> and then you click the file it made
13.20.45 #       <preglow> i wonder if cassandra started the latex conversion
13.20.46 #       <HCl> and the searchengine runs
13.20.54 #       <HCl> and executes the search
13.21.00 #       <HCl> and writes the search results to search.m3u
13.21.03 #       <B4gder> HCl: there's no docs saying all this 
13.21.16 #       <B4gder> not easily accessable at least
13.21.37 #       <HCl> i can write it down in the databox section, i guess
13.21.49 #       <LinusN> there is no databox section :-)
13.21.54 #       <B4gder> :-)
13.21.56 #       <HCl> mhm, well i'll make one
13.22.08 #       <HCl> there deserves to be a PluginDatabox, at least
13.22.16 #       <B4gder> yes
13.22.16 #       <LinusN> i'd like the two plugins to be one
13.22.23 #       <HCl> the searchengine plugin is pretty much low level
13.22.39 #       <HCl> LinusN: that would eliminate all possibility of having predefined searches, or searches in a list that you can select easily.
13.22.40 #       <B4gder> LinusN: that would probably not count as bugfix
13.22.50 #       <B4gder> HCl: not at all
13.22.51 #       <LinusN> HCl: why?
13.23.11 #       <HCl> because the plugin would have no way of knowing whether it has to execute the file or edit it
13.23.34 #       <B4gder> well, you can't click on one to edit it now either, can you?
13.23.47 #       <HCl> no, ofcourse not, that opens it with the searchengine
13.23.49 #       <HCl> if you want to edit it
13.23.55 #       <HCl> you simply have to put in the filename in databox
13.24.11 #       <B4gder> then there will be no difference
13.24.18 #       <HCl> ?
13.24.25 #       <HCl> yes there would be?
13.24.36 #       <B4gder> you'd start it without a file and then load one to edit
13.24.45 #       <HCl> in the end, i'd like to have something like .rockbox/searches/
13.24.46 #       <B4gder> or you'd click one and execute it
13.24.56 #       <B4gder> agreed
13.24.56 #       <HCl> with searches a user has made, and can execute immediately
13.25.03 #       <B4gder> but we want them searches to be plain yext
13.25.06 #       <HCl> and they end up in the current playlist
13.25.11 #       <B4gder> editable on your pc
13.25.14 #       <HCl> why do you want searches to be plain text?
13.25.18 #       <HCl> that is so not idiot-proof
13.25.21 #       <B4gder> no
13.25.22 #       <LinusN> yes, plain text .rsp files would be nice
13.25.23 #       <HCl> databox *enforces* at the moment
13.25.26 #       <B4gder> but user-friendly
13.25.32 #       <HCl> that the search engine querys are incorrect
13.25.41 #       <HCl> i so do not want to deal with retards who cant form a proper search query
13.25.52 #       <HCl> so databox enforces it to be correct or tells them to go to hell
13.26.04 #       <preglow> well, those people will still probably use databox
13.26.04 #       <LinusN> HCl: databox can still enforce it
13.26.06 #       <HCl> it simply refuses to save a query
13.26.07 #       <preglow> so it can still enforce
13.26.08 #       <HCl> if its not correct
13.26.18 #       <B4gder> it could still be a picky parser
13.26.21 #       <preglow> people who have no clue, wont try writing queries by hand
13.26.32 #       <LinusN> as it is now, i can't generate the searches on my pc
13.26.49 #       <HCl> LinusN: i'd have to write a lexical scanner for databox, which isn't *that* much of a problem
13.26.50 #       <B4gder> we could even have a search query generator web pge
13.26.57 #       <HCl> but users would get things like
13.27.11 #       <preglow> B4gder: neat idea
13.27.16 #       <HCl> "number found where string compare expected"
13.27.18 #       <HCl> stuff like that
13.27.24 #       <LinusN> my first try was actually to write a query in a text editor, because i couldn't imagine that the query files were not ascii :-)
13.27.38 #       <preglow> i agree they need to be ascii anyway
13.27.40 #       <preglow> binary is badness
13.27.48 #       <HCl> well
13.27.58 #       <HCl> i absolutely refuse to deal with retard users who mess it up cause of that..
13.28.04 #       <preglow> then dont
13.28.05 #       <HCl> so you'd have to deal with that
13.28.07 #       <B4gder> welcome to rockbox
13.28.12 #       <B4gder> :-)
13.28.17 #       <B4gder> we have end users
13.28.22 #       <LinusN> we deal with retard users every day
13.28.24 #       <HCl> B4gder: i specifically made databox in such a way that they *can't* screw it up
13.28.29 #       <B4gder> well
13.28.30 #       <preglow> you still can
13.28.36 #       <B4gder> they can't use it at all :-)
13.28.39 #       <preglow> people can STILL edit your binary files
13.28.41 #       <CoCoLUS> let the mr-users vote :)
13.28.46 #       <LinusN> HCl: no, you made it in a way that nobody would be able to use it :-)
13.28.52 #       <HCl> preglow: yea, but thats their own fault if they edit the binary files
13.28.55 #       <preglow> yes
13.28.58 #       <HCl> LinusN: its really not *that* hard to use
13.28.59 #       <preglow> as it is if they edit the ascii files
13.29.04 #       <HCl> databox is pretty straightforward
13.29.04 #       <B4gder> HCl: it really is
13.29.18 #       <preglow> anywho
13.29.25 #       <preglow> i'm moving to faster internet land, so gotta get packing
13.29.26 #       <preglow> later
13.29.28 #       <B4gder> but it is only due to the lack of ocs
13.29.29 #       <B4gder> docs
13.29.32 #       <LinusN> using the databox plugin is pure guesswork today, as there are no docs at all
13.29.35 Quit    preglow ("CGI:IRC")
13.29.36 #       <HCl> yes, so i'll write some documentation
13.29.49 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13.29.49 #       * amiconn feels like a nobody as I am able to use it...
13.29.57 #       <LinusN> i am too
13.30.16 #       <LinusN> i know how to use it, and i have even made searches with it
13.31.31 #       <B4gder> I fired it up once and got so scared I've never tried it again
13.32.10 #       <B4gder> I felt like writing a compiled regex
13.32.30 #       <amiconn> Nah, regex is certainly harder to understand than databox
13.32.41 #       <B4gder> not to me
13.33.19 #       <B4gder> it is possibly because I had a different idea of what I'd meet
13.34.26 #       <LinusN> probably
13.36.37 #       <LinusN> HCl: what's the status on read/write of runtime db in rockbox? (the wiki says 90%)
13.38.52 #       <HCl> LinusN: it pretty much works, doesn't work on archos yet because archos needs the audio hooks that the runtime database uses implemented
13.38.58 #       <HCl> aside from that it should work fine
13.39.09 #       <LinusN> HCl: those are there now, iirc
13.39.10 #       <B4gder> amiconn fixed those hooks, right?
13.39.19 #       <HCl> oh, then it should work fine :)
13.39.44 #       <LinusN> and what is this? " Save info to runtime db on play (fairly decent code in cvs)"
13.40.10 #       <HCl> we changed the "fairly decent code" to a buffered design
13.40.14 #       <HCl> so that can be changed to done
13.40.21 #       <HCl> though i could use some more bugtesting on it
13.40.38 #       <B4gder> ... more people will use it once they learn how to
13.41.31 #       <amiconn> HCl: Don't you check the commits? ;) I added the hooks on Sunday, they seem to work okay
13.41.36 #       <B4gder> and with plain text searches, it will be a killer
13.41.43 #       <amiconn> ...although I didn't test all cases
13.41.43 #       <LinusN> absolutely
13.41.47 #       <HCl> amiconn: i haven't been able to look at rockbox for quite a while
13.42.50 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Seen my 2 additions for the 2.5 todo list?
13.43.45 #       <B4gder> I don't think the code size is a problem as long as we manage to keep below 200K until release
13.43.54 #       <LinusN> amiconn: null pointer and code size?
13.43.56 #       <B4gder> and then I suggest we go 2-step boot after 2.5
13.45.03 #       * HCl has to charge his iriver..
13.46.27 #       <amiconn> B4gder: I don't like this idea
13.46.39 #       <B4gder> two step?
13.46.42 #       <LinusN> amiconn: a 2-step boot loader?
13.46.47 #       <amiconn> yes
13.46.50 #       <B4gder> what other solutions is there+
13.46.51 #       <B4gder> ?
13.47.01 #       <B4gder> stop adding features?
13.47.01 #       <amiconn> Reduce code bloat...
13.47.15 #       <LinusN> amiconn: where is this huge bloat?
13.47.50 #       <LinusN> i can imagine that we can trim a few kbyte here and there
13.47.53 #       <B4gder> I don't see how we can continue expanding features while remain at the same code size
13.48.09 #       <amiconn> It's not exactly huge, but there are quite some areas where we can save space without removing features
13.48.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> from the off: stop expanding sounds good ;-)
13.48.42 #       <amiconn> One point is localisation v2, but certainly not the only one
13.48.55 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if we continue growing, there will be no mp3 buffer left
13.49.12 #       <B4gder> yes
13.49.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> missing the point of an mp3 player
13.49.17 #       <B4gder> by the year 2043
13.49.28 #       <B4gder> :-)
13.49.36 #       * HCl made a crude databox usage thing
13.49.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hey, we have so many features, we had to drop the music playing thing
13.49.47 #       <amiconn> LinusN: One thing I would like to do is to tell gcc to use .rodata.srt1.1 instead of .rodata.str1.4 on SH1
13.49.51 #       <HCl> i have to go in a bit, i know its pretty horrid and such, but i tried to explain the basics
13.49.59 #       <amiconn> I didn't find a way to do this yet...
13.50.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what is this 1.1 / 1.4 stuff?
13.51.16 #       <amiconn> .rodata.str1 means simple (char) string, as opposed to e.g. .rodata.str2 would mean wchar
13.51.23 #       <amiconn> the .1 / .4 is the alignment
13.51.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> wewaste space in front of text strings?
13.51.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we waste
13.52.11 #       <amiconn> actually between and after them, 1.5 bytes per string on average
13.52.25 #       <B4gder> I don't see how we can manage to stay below 200K long-term
13.52.47 #       <[IDC]Dragon> 200k sounds reasonable for such a box
13.52.51 #       <B4gder> we'll have to remove features
13.53.03 #       <B4gder> and make things iriver-only
13.53.06 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or, out-source them
13.53.13 #       <LinusN> overlays?
13.53.43 #       <amiconn> Some things could indeed be removed from the core
13.53.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> if you guys keep insisting on a large firmware, you can use bootbox to start it
13.54.00 #       <B4gder> not all can flash
13.54.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no, as a 1st leve loader
13.54.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon>     level
13.54.17 #       <amiconn> E.g, if we bundle some default searches, the built-in database search can and should be removed
13.54.17 #       <B4gder> yes, right
13.54.43 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: who are "you guys"?
13.55.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> those who like >200k  ;-)
13.55.07 #       * amiconn doesn't
13.55.12 #       <B4gder> built-in database search?
13.55.19 #       <B4gder> isn't that a plugin?
13.55.25 #       <amiconn> Nope
13.55.32 #       <amiconn> I mean the one Zagor coded
13.55.41 #       <LinusN> ah, the freetext search?
13.56.07 #       <B4gder> that could indeed be a plugin
13.56.11 #       * [IDC]Dragon would welcome an option-decluttering
13.56.13 #       <B4gder> I guess
13.56.24 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: agree
13.56.26 #       <B4gder> [IDC]Dragon: good luck managing that ;-)
13.56.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> works only by authority
13.56.46 #       <B4gder> true
13.57.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> don't try demokracy on that
13.57.10 #       <LinusN> one example is the line selector
13.57.29 #       <LinusN> it could just as well be an inverse bar
13.57.46 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I always use the inverse bar
13.57.50 #       <LinusN> me too
13.57.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> saves a char
13.57.54 #       <B4gder> I agree
13.58.23 #       <LinusN> saves a bit of code space
13.58.41 #       * LinusN is tempted to remove it right away
13.58.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so the FM build went >200K?
13.58.56 #       <LinusN> yes
13.59.03 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how come it's green again?
13.59.10 #       <LinusN> i changed the compiler
13.59.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> to which?
13.59.22 #       <amiconn> They are 80 bytes less than 200K now with gcc 3.3.6
13.59.39 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ah, I use 3.3.5
14.00.25 #       <amiconn> Maybe 3.3.5 will manage that too, but 3.3.4 didn't
14.00.40 #       <[IDC]Dragon> how about the credits in a file?
14.00.46 #       <LinusN> a plugin
14.00.52 #       <[IDC]Dragon> or that
14.00.53 #       <B4gder> we make it a direct-used plugin
14.01.09 Quit    webguest77 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14.01.28 #       <B4gder> of the kind of previously removed ;-)
14.01.39 #       <B4gder> "we previously"
14.02.32 #       * amiconn contemplates applying a similar method to the credits as he did for the language strings
14.02.43 #       <amiconn> ...saving the need to store the pointers
14.03.01 #       <amiconn> ...and circumventing the string alignment problem at the same time
14.03.02 #       <LinusN> won't be necessary if we move it to a plugin
14.03.25 #       <amiconn> Will save ~5.5 bytes per credit
14.03.53 #       <LinusN> the plugin will fit in memory without those optimizations
14.04.12 #       <[IDC]Dragon> what size are the credits?
14.04.33 #       <B4gder> there are some 130 names now
14.05.22 #       <amiconn> ~2 KB
14.05.33 #       <amiconn> (with all the alignment waste)
14.05.36 #       <amiconn> Plus pointers
14.06.03 #       <LinusN> 30k left then
14.06.04 #       <amiconn> Another ~500 bytes
14.06.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ok, let's add pictures of everybody ;-)
14.06.49 #       <LinusN> \o/
14.07.17 #       <LinusN> "the rockbox developer calendar 2005"
14.07.18 #       <B4gder> 1860 bytes for names + zero bytes, + 496 bytes for the pointers
14.09.21 #       <Bger> hq: at least 40k/picture ;)
14.09.31 #       <HCl>  :P
14.10.15 Join    Shebb [0] (n=52710453@labb.contactor.se)
14.11.09 #       <[IDC]Dragon> about 2.5K, not bad, I've had more effort in the past for similar savings
14.11.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (menu system, config bits)
14.12.19 #       <B4gder> we can in fact make other parts to use that method too
14.12.29 #       <B4gder> if we want to minimize core
14.12.37 #       <B4gder> like FM screen, recording screen etc
14.12.46 #       <LinusN> no, no, no
14.12.59 #       <B4gder> hehe
14.13.39 #       <LinusN> i can imagine moving some debugging stuff to a plugin though
14.13.58 Join    muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d9b8e264.pool.mediaWays.net)
14.14.18 #       <[IDC]Dragon> definitely, I thought you must have already discussed that
14.14.26 #       <LinusN> we have
14.14.34 #       <B4gder> a positive side effect would be that we'd get an even better plugin API
14.14.40 #       <muesli-> G'mornin
14.14.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> at points where it doesn't require adding very dirty access functions
14.15.05 #       <B4gder> yes
14.15.08 Join    stamppot [0] (n=stamppot@cc516682-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl)
14.15.26 #       <LinusN> [IDC]Dragon: i don't think we need to add access functions
14.15.41 #       <LinusN> the debugging plugin can take any shortcut it wants to
14.16.04 #       <LinusN> read and write directly to memory etc
14.16.27 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but for I2C the can opens
14.16.52 #       <LinusN> but that os no different from having it in-core, is it?
14.17.34 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no, but you have to expose it
14.18.03 #       <LinusN> yes
14.18.53 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and people will abuse it to write very dirty plugins
14.19.00 #       <Shebb> LinusN: Have you looked into the elapsed time problems any more at all?
14.19.22 #       <LinusN> no, as i can't make it happen on my player, not even with your mp3 file
14.20.20 #       <Shebb> But with your original file there is a clear problem: time elapsed reads 34 when it should be 36
14.20.56 Quit    billytwowilly (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14.21.02 #       <LinusN> and what says that the .lrc file is more correct than the time counter?
14.21.17 #       <Shebb> Because I checked playing back the files on the computer
14.24.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ohh, no hello.rock any more
14.25.02 #       <B4gder> :-)
14.25.24 #       <LinusN> Shebb: i just played my mp3 file in Media Player, he still starts singing at 0:34
14.25.46 Join    dionoea [0] (n=dionoea@muscipula152.via.ecp.fr)
14.26.10 Join    tvelocity [0] (n=tony@chan530-a204.otenet.gr)
14.26.54 #       <Shebb> Hmm, I think there must be something strange in my mp3 file, because I just tested yours without a problem
14.27.33 #       <Shebb> My mp3 file still changes its elapsed time when I rewind it but this is the only file I have managed to get this behaviour with
14.28.01 #       <Shebb> I guess I have been wasting your time with this...
14.29.23 #       <LinusN> Shebb: how do i make it happen with your file?
14.30.05 #       <Shebb> How it works on mine is if I start it playing then later rewind
14.30.39 #       <LinusN> i try rewinding, but the lyrics always start at 0:34, no matter what i do
14.32.33 #       <Shebb> Then I really do not know why...  Each time I rewind the lyrics start at 36 instead of 34 with my file
14.33.53 #       <LinusN> ah, now i see it
14.33.58 #       <Shebb> If I fast forward my file the lyrics will also start at 36
14.34.10 #       <LinusN> i misunderstood and always rewound to the beginning
14.34.18 #       <Shebb> Ah
14.34.36 #       <LinusN> ok, the ff/rew seems to forget about the pcm latency
14.34.46 #       <Shebb> However, this seems to be the only file I have that does this
14.34.56 #       <LinusN> i doubt it
14.35.04 Join    DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se)
14.35.34 #       <Shebb> It might have been something I encoded long back with mindows media player which would have used the Fraun whatever codec
14.38.12 #       <HCl> back
14.38.20 #       <HCl> temporarily, anyways
14.40.30 Join    noC|andY`fRa [0] (i=andy@dsl-084-058-107-064.arcor-ip.net)
14.41.50 #       <Shebb> Is it possible to retrieve the decoded information sent by the codecs from a plugin?
14.43.10 #       <Shebb> So that I might be able to play an mp3 and either save it to WAV or fx it up a little?
14.45.44 #       <LinusN> Shebb: i think i know what the problem is
14.46.30 Quit    tvelocity ("Leaving")
14.46.33 #       <LinusN> the id3 tag is 77kbytes
14.46.43 #       <Bger> wow :)
14.47.03 #       <LinusN> cover image
14.47.21 #       <LinusN> and the mpa plugin doesn't account for the id3 tag when it seeks
14.47.27 #       <LinusN> s/plugin/codec/
14.47.41 #       <CoCoLUS> HCl? :)
14.49.25 Part    Shebb
14.49.36 Join    Shebb [0] (n=52710453@labb.contactor.se)
14.50.17 #       <Shebb> Right, well its good that that problem was found
14.50.30 #       <LinusN> yup
14.53.14 #       <LinusN> Shebb: your persistence paid off
14.53.22 #       <LinusN> i have now committed a fix
14.53.31 #       <Bger> does "Mono Left" mean that u take the samples from the left channel and "write" them out to both of them? 
14.53.41 #       <LinusN> yes
14.53.54 #       <Bger> ok, 10x ;)
14.53.54 #       <CoCoLUS> must sound horrible :)
14.54.12 #       <LinusN> or rather, it will work that way when it is implemented on the iriver
14.55.08 #       <Bger> on archos it's different ?
14.55.44 #       <LinusN> it is done in hardware on archos
14.56.00 #       <Shebb> Shouldnt sound bad.  Is just the same as listening through one headphone
14.56.15 #       <Bger> Shebb: maybe a little better in fact :)
14.56.49 #       <Shebb> yeah, I hope!
14.59.01 #       <Shebb> Something I would like to have in rockbox would be some study mode where you could skip by a specified time preferably by a time given in milliseconds
14.59.21 #       <Shebb> However this kind of thing would really be code bloat in the core firmware
14.59.29 #       <LinusN> nah
14.59.44 #       <Shebb> Would it be possible to play with the architecture so I could implant this in a plugin?
14.59.45 #       <LinusN> what should be in the core if not playback features
14.59.50 #       <CoCoLUS> the darth vader mode would be code bloat :)
15.00.06 #       <stamppot> darth vader mode?
15.00.09 #       <LinusN> Shebb: no need for a plugin imho, it should be in the core
15.00.20 #       <CoCoLUS> you know, dark, evil guy? ;)
15.00.24 Join    muesli__ [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d9b8ef57.pool.mediaWays.net)
15.00.36 #       <stamppot> Oh, you mean Gates mode...
15.00.45 #       <Shebb> It would be cool in the core but the way I would like to use it would be rather specialist
15.00.54 #       <stamppot> Do we intend to play Windows Media then... :-)
15.01.01 #       <LinusN> Shebb: how would you use it?
15.01.20 #       <LinusN> "we-we-we-welcome!" :-)
15.01.21 #       <Shebb> I would take a song with a constant tempo
15.01.42 #       <Shebb> I would calculate how many milliseconds make up a bar or something
15.02.02 #       <Shebb> Then I would use the study mode to remix in a rahter simple way
15.02.49 #       <LinusN> so what you really want is a playback speed setting?
15.03.01 #       <LinusN> without changing the pitch
15.03.17 #       <Shebb> No, that is a seperate feature that would be nice 
15.03.35 #       <Shebb> Have you ever used Traktion or something similar?
15.03.41 #       <LinusN> no
15.04.10 #       <LinusN> anyway, i gotta go now
15.04.13 #       <LinusN> cu later
15.04.19 #       <Bger> cu :)
15.04.22 Part    LinusN
15.04.23 #       <t0mas> bye
15.04.35 #       <Shebb> right, I will post it in the forums anyway. There is a topic on it.
15.05.45 #       <Bger> these "LANG_ON" and "LANG_OFF" are used in something like "blala: str(LANG_ON)" ??
15.06.57 #       <t0mas> yes
15.07.09 #       <t0mas> something like that
15.07.18 #       <t0mas> to make rockbox display things in the native language
15.07.28 #       <Bger> i mean "<setting>:str()"
15.07.33 #       <Bger> not the button?
15.10.55 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15.17.39 Join    zezayer [0] (n=jake@87.81.166.52)
15.17.40 Quit    muesli__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15.18.44 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.18.51 Quit    ashridah ("sleep")
15.18.55 Quit    Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.19.32 Join    guyg [0] (n=3efd602c@labb.contactor.se)
15.20.20 #       <guyg> Hi there.  I've been on holiday for a fortnight, and want to see what's been going on with rockbox.  Is there somewhere I can find a CVS log for the past two weeks?  Thanks
15.22.39 Join    Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@p549AC70C.dip.t-dialin.net)
15.28.15 #       <B4gder> in CVS ;-)
15.28.38 #       <B4gder> possibly we should make such a little log
15.28.41 #       <Bger> guyg: use dayly builds
15.28.45 #       <Bger> daily
15.28.47 #       <Bger> i mean
15.28.56 #       <B4gder> right, there's a daily changelog for each daily
15.29.33 Join    webguest49 [0] (n=c3253d8f@labb.contactor.se)
15.29.58 #       <Bger> http://www.rockbox.org/daily/changes-20050823.html
15.30.14 #       <Bger> and change the day number in this URL
15.30.51 #       <guyg> thanks a lot.  I'll check them out
15.30.58 #       <Bger> http://www.rockbox.org/daily/ <= better way :)
15.31.11 #       <guyg> (not in the CVS sense, obviously)
15.35.00 Join    billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S01060090f800ae8a.ed.shawcable.net)
15.35.32 Quit    guyg ("CGI:IRC")
15.36.20 Quit    webguest49 ("CGI:IRC")
15.37.46 #       <Bger> B4gder: daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/since24.html<= the anchors here are invalid (point to daniel.haxx.se) or it's just my firefox ?
15.38.33 #       <B4gder> ah, right
15.39.38 #       <B4gder> fixed
15.39.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn, do you read?
15.40.31 #       <Bger> ;)
15.40.35 #       <Bger> good B4gder
15.41.02 #       <B4gder> I should make that page get auto-updated
15.41.10 #       <B4gder> but not right now
15.43.17 #       <Bger> B4gder: any idea whether the "player" works with cyrillic chars ?
15.43.26 #       <B4gder> it doesn't
15.43.41 #       <Bger> ok, it doesn't have them in its charset, but ...
15.44.09 #       <B4gder> the player only has 8 (or 4) reprogrammable letters
15.44.53 #       <Bger> i think amiconn said something about remapping cyr. chars to their like-looking latin ones
15.45.12 #       <B4gder> ah, yes that might be a way
15.45.26 #       <Bger> B4gder: i know for the 4 and 8 chars ...
15.45.53 Join    ep0ch [0] (n=ep0ch@84.12.174.56)
15.47.14 #       <B4gder> currently the player code strives hard to support iso8859-1
15.47.21 #       <ep0ch> hey, does anyone know if there's is a BPM plugin for rockbox? i.e. calculates the tempo of button tapping?
15.47.32 #       <B4gder> but it could of course be changed to do the same for cyrillic
15.47.57 #       <Bger> i can help with that .. :)
15.48.14 #       <B4gder> and it uses a replacement table for the cases where it can't reprogram the letters
15.49.22 #       <B4gder> ep0ch: I believe the metronome plugin have something like that
15.49.27 #       <ep0ch> ahhh
15.50.20 #       <ep0ch> damn and i wanted to write my first rockbox plugin :)
15.59.59 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Here now
16.00.25 #       <amiconn> B4gder: I still plan to implement cyrillic for the player
16.00.40 #       <B4gder> "still" ?
16.00.42 #       <amiconn> I have a complete replacement table
16.00.56 #       <amiconn> I already plan to do that for some months
16.00.59 #       <B4gder> aha
16.01.02 #       <B4gder> didn't know
16.01.31 #       <B4gder> isn't it mostly to make a setting and use alternative tables?
16.01.40 #       <amiconn> I'm a bit undecided when to start; this will for sure need adjustment for unicode support
16.01.51 #       <B4gder> oh right
16.02.12 #       <amiconn> Yes, it's "just" using alternate tables, however, the current tables have fixed sizes
16.02.25 #       <Shebb> ep0ch, you could always do a nicer bpm calc, one that averages it all out rather than relying on the interval between each pair of clicks
16.02.53 #       <amiconn> Shebb: The metronome plugin does average
16.03.23 #       <amiconn> B4gder: My first attempt wil probably be hackish, i.e. support cyrillic *instead* of extended latin
16.03.41 #       <B4gder> make sense
16.03.43 #       <B4gder> makes
16.05.15 #       <Bger> amiconn? i don't think this is really good
16.05.28 #       <Bger> if you have both latin & cyrillic tags for example ?
16.06.19 #       <amiconn> I said extended latin, not latin
16.06.50 #       <Bger> aaaa, yeah
16.06.52 #       <Bger> sorry
16.06.57 #       <amiconn> Plain latin, i.e. ascii, is part of all codepages
16.12.21 Join    muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bc15a.b.pppool.de)
16.17.36 Join    rooomish [0] (n=Roman@195.47.96.56.adsl.nextra.cz)
16.17.36 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16.19.22 #       <rooomish> amiconn: Parcial success - I tried your exe - downloading monitor done that is OK, but f.e. dumping file - nothing happened (how long it takes)?
16.19.56 #       <amiconn> Tried to dump the rom to a file via uart_boot?
16.20.06 #       <rooomish> yes
16.20.23 #       <amiconn> Should take around 2.5 minutes
16.20.36 #       <rooomish> OKI try to wait
16.21.39 #       <amiconn> RS232 is sloooow, especially with 14400 bps...
16.21.56 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: ping...
16.23.38 #       <rooomish> [IDC]Dragon: I waited here for uart_boot exes more than one month :-(, please have you link for downloading?
16.23.43 Join    Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=chatzill@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
16.24.59 #       <amiconn> rooomish: If you manage to get it working, I can upload my compilation
16.25.08 #       <amiconn> ...because I then know it works
16.27.05 Nick    t0mas is now known as t0mas_ (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
16.28.04 Nick    t0mas_ is now known as t0mas (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
16.28.31 Nick    t0mas is now known as t0mas_ (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
16.29.29 #       <rooomish> amiconn: In that case yes - but now it is about 10 minutes :-( and cursor is still only blinking. Do you think, that it could be "thanks" to your exes?
16.30.20 Nick    t0mas_ is now known as t0mas (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
16.30.38 #       <t0mas> amiconn?
16.30.48 #       <t0mas> what's the rockbox policy on hostname cloaks?
16.30.49 Join    muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bc1e4.b.pppool.de)
16.30.54 #       <t0mas> you can request a cloak on freenode
16.31.50 #       <B4gder> what's that?
16.31.55 Join    webguest05 [0] (n=d5ee4e12@labb.contactor.se)
16.32.09 #       <t0mas> this: /whois t0mas
16.32.11 #       <t0mas> * [t0mas] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas): Tomas
16.32.18 #       <t0mas> you can change unaffilated to rockbox
16.32.28 #       <amiconn> rooomish: Sometimes I got similar behaviour. It seems that a reconnect doesn't always work, i.e. downloading minimon in one call of uart_boot, then try to do another action in a second call often fails
16.32.40 #       <amiconn> Doing it all in one call worked for me
16.32.52 #       <t0mas> B4gder: are you registered with the rockbox group on freenode?
16.33.01 #       <t0mas> as in.. is linus the only owner? or are you it too?
16.33.03 #       <B4gder> I once was
16.33.07 #       <B4gder> linus is not owner
16.33.12 #       <t0mas> ah ok
16.33.19 #       <B4gder> adiamas is the owner
16.33.22 #       <B4gder> and he is gone
16.33.25 #       <t0mas> oh lol
16.33.31 #       <rooomish> amiconn: how to manage it on one step?
16.35.15 #       <amiconn> uart_boot -p <Your_COM> -dump <filename>
16.35.35 #       <amiconn> Doing it in a second call actually requires an additional option -nodownlaod
16.35.40 #       <amiconn> * -nodownload
16.36.03 #       <amiconn> ...to prevent the tool from trying to download minimon again (which won't work)
16.36.30 Join    b3u [0] (i=beu@gentoo/developer/beu)
16.36.32 #       <rooomish> amiconn: I used: uart_boot -p COM1 -f flashup.bin, than there was a message Downloading minimon done and then second line "dumping file 1.bin" with cursor blinking
16.36.56 #       <rooomish> soryy flashing file 1.bin
16.37.09 #       <rooomish> the same with dumping
16.37.14 #       <amiconn> Hmm, I have no idea how long *flashing* will take
16.37.53 #       <amiconn> I never flashed via uart_boot. I just used it for rom dumps (-dump) and executing code (-exec)
16.37.55 #       <b3u> loha :)
16.38.04 #       <rooomish> amiconn: aha
16.38.23 #       <amiconn> Hmm, perhaps something is wrong with the minimon in my package...
16.38.47 #       <rooomish> amiconn: ? you fount something,
16.38.51 #       <rooomish> ?
16.39.11 #       <amiconn> No, it's just a suspicion
16.39.32 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: ping...
16.39.44 #       <rooomish> amiconn: it it teriible, that IDC Dragon is not responding waaaaau
16.40.10 #       <[IDC]Dragon> here
16.40.20 #       <rooomish> hurray
16.40.34 #       <rooomish> [IDC]Dragon: I waited here for uart_boot exes more than one month :-(, please have you link for downloading?
16.41.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> LinusN also said it's not in the wiki, to my surprise
16.41.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'll add it tonight, if missing
16.42.03 #       <rooomish> Yes it is missing me too much ans so looong
16.42.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> sorry
16.42.19 #       <rooomish> OKU will wait
16.43.11 #       <rooomish> amiconn: do you thing that I can interrupt the "flashing"?
16.44.11 #       <[IDC]Dragon> why would you want to?
16.45.02 #       <rooomish> I have some exes from amiconn, but maybe it is not working - see my few messages above
16.45.18 #       <rooomish> now it is about 15 minutes
16.45.25 Join    webguest24 [0] (n=4721f9c1@labb.contactor.se)
16.46.29 #       <rooomish> [IDC]Dragon: and amiconn is not shure if they are correct
16.46.33 #       <webguest24> with the replaygain stuff does it set the levels according to some baseline? Or all files relative to each other?
16.46.55 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: You wanted to ask me sth?
16.47.36 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes
16.48.01 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Archos is "bugging" me how we progress with the wav codec
16.48.10 #       <amiconn> Hmm?
16.48.16 #       <amiconn> Did we get the okay?
16.48.17 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ;-)
16.48.44 #       <amiconn> I would like to puplish the docs in the wiki, that would help development a lot
16.48.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> we can start coding
16.48.46 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Webgues24: Replaygain is described at replaygain.org
16.48.50 #       <amiconn> *publish
16.49.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon> no publishing OK yet, that's my standard return question
16.49.17 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: *we* == you and me only as long as we can't publish the docs
16.49.32 Part    ep0ch
16.49.55 #       <amiconn> ..and unfortunately I don't have much time for hacking on it as there are a couple of other things that need work
16.50.16 #       <[IDC]Dragon> this is a running gag, since I wa bugging them for so long
16.50.39 #       <amiconn> Yes I know. Someone pls invent a time machine :-/
16.50.51 #       <[IDC]Dragon> now they bug me, to "take revenge"
16.53.19 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I had the impression you're deeply interested in this
16.53.26 #       <amiconn> Yes I am
16.53.36 Quit    einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
16.54.00 #       <amiconn> However, I have ideas and rockbox things enough for months of coding time :-(
16.54.04 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16.54.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> ;-)
16.55.17 Join    Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h179n2c1o285.bredband.skanova.com)
16.55.57 #       <rooomish> [IDC]Dragon: so PLS do not forget to update wiki - thank you so much!
16.58.19 #       <webguest24> i looked at replaygain.org i couldn't really figure it out. I understand that you can set the gains on an individual track basis, or as an album, but how does it make songs from different albums the same loudness? is there a baseline loudness it uses or does it scan all the files and set them relative to each other? What happens when you buy a new album? Does that have the same relative loudness as the already replaygained albums? I'm guessing it 
16.58.46 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> There's a baseline
16.59.21 #       <webguest24> thankyou
16.59.38 Part    b3u ("freightlined")
16.59.38 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> 89dB, if I recall what I read somewhere.
17.00.04 #       * Paul_The_Nerd knows nothing about audio, so does not know what this number really represents.
17.02.53 #       <webguest24> cool pretty smart
17.03.07 #       <webguest24> works really well so nice to not have to mess with the volume every song in the car
17.03.52 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Honestly, if all rockbox did was offer basic music playback and replaygain, that'd be enough to get me to switch. :)
17.04.20 #       * amiconn doesn't care about replaygain
17.04.36 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I didn't used to.
17.04.37 #       <Lear> well, it does that (on the iriver at least), and a lot more...
17.04.49 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Then I downloaded the OCRemix archive, and... ouch.
17.05.11 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah, I'm loving everything else it does too Lear. I switched before replaygain support was even in.
17.05.51 #       <Lear> Ah, I read it as if you didn't use rb... :)
17.06.23 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> No, I've been using it for a while. I keep trying to come up with some ways I can be more supportive of it.
17.06.40 #       <webguest24> it's pretty sweet i'm impressed
17.06.50 #       <webguest24> gapless is huge
17.06.59 #       <webguest24> and being able to reshuffle playlists
17.07.16 #       <webguest24> seems to sound better also
17.07.17 #       <webguest24> cleaner
17.10.19 Quit    Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0+/undefined]")
17.10.58 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17.12.07 Quit    webguest05 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17.13.33 Quit    webguest24 ("CGI:IRC")
17.17.13 Join    webguest07 [0] (n=d5ee4776@labb.contactor.se)
17.23.50 Part    zezayer
17.24.18 Quit    Shebb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17.26.39 Join    webguest56 [0] (n=5087d944@labb.contactor.se)
17.27.21 #       <webguest56> is the UDA1380 the best DAC available in its class ?
17.28.07 #       <amiconn> I don't think it is
17.28.40 #       <amiconn> I'm not sure whether it is DAC related, but the crosstalk suppression on iriver is rather poor
17.32.40 #       <webguest56> hmm so there is room for ipmrovement
17.34.58 Join    Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h179n2c1o285.bredband.skanova.com)
17.35.17 #       <webguest56> is the UDA1380 a 8bit or 10 bit ADC ?
17.37.14 Join    tvelocity [0] (n=tony@chan530-a045.otenet.gr)
17.39.21 #       <phaedrus961> hey all, I've found a problem where convbdf writes incorrect offsets if the glyphs in the bdf are out of order
17.39.32 #       <phaedrus961> see here for patch: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1267220&group_id=44306&atid=439120
17.41.19 Part    webguest56
17.46.50 Join    amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD6735.dip.t-dialin.net)
17.48.14 Quit    pike (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17.54.15 Quit    amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
17.54.15 Nick    amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@p54BD6735.dip.t-dialin.net)
17.59.08 Join    crwl [0] (n=crawlie@c15.kekkola.jyu.fi)
18.00.14 Join    pike [0] (i=pike@c83-249-120-126.bredband.comhem.se)
18.01.46 Nick    Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de)
18.04.59 Join    bagawk [0] (n=lee@67-42-194-6.eugn.qwest.net)
18.05.38 Nick    Lear is now known as Lear_away (n=chatzill@h179n2c1o285.bredband.skanova.com)
18.11.41 Quit    DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
18.12.47 Quit    TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18.16.03 Join    DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se)
18.31.32 Join    Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-209-48.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
18.47.09 Join    dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@cpe-24-168-110-99.si.res.rr.com)
19.00.56 Quit    Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
19.02.36 Join    godzirra [0] (i=shawn@c-24-131-13-213.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
19.02.46 #       * godzirra waves
19.03.46 Join    markun [0] (n=markun@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl)
19.06.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I'm off
19.06.56 Quit    [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
19.11.02 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19.14.38 Join    Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m29.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
19.19.23 Quit    dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19.21.22 Quit    tvelocity ("Leaving")
19.21.50 Join    dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@cpe-24-168-110-99.si.res.rr.com)
19.28.02 Quit    Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]")
19.29.51 Quit    bagawk ("Leaving")
19.32.14 Join    solex [0] (n=jrschulz@d096066.adsl.hansenet.de)
19.33.22 Join    matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
19.44.20 Quit    solex_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19.45.40 Quit    dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20.06.54 Join    Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-209-48.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
20.07.00 Quit    Sucka (Remote closed the connection)
20.08.20 Part    godzirra
20.15.08 Join    Shebb [0] (n=52710453@labb.contactor.se)
20.21.00 Quit    Lear_away ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0+/undefined]")
20.23.36 Quit    rooomish (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20.23.43 Join    rooomish [0] (n=Roman@195.47.96.56.adsl.nextra.cz)
20.29.24 Quit    stamppot (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
20.37.56 Join    wrecker [0] (n=50b1787a@labb.contactor.se)
20.40.16 Quit    wrecker (Client Quit)
20.40.29 Join    wrecker [0] (n=50b1787a@labb.contactor.se)
20.56.10 Part    Domonoky
21.11.05 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21.14.41 Join    paugh [0] (n=pete@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
21.19.49 Quit    thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21.21.01 Join    lost|X40 [0] (n=james@c-67-175-166-214.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21.21.13 Join    thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s201a.studby.ntnu.no)
21.23.29 #       <lost|X40> not complaining, just wanted to mention that a recent rockbox build at least partially kills usb on my linux box
21.24.41 #       <lost|X40> by that I mean, using kernel 2.6.12 and udev, loading iHP w/ iHP firmware = listing in /dev and mount = success; loading iHP w/ rockbox = no listing in /dev, of course no mount; going back to iHP firmware = no listing in /dev
21.25.22 #       <lost|X40> it only took me like 2 hours to figure out this was not a suspend problem..
21.27.34 #       <amiconn> recent meaning what here?
21.27.53 #       <lost|X40> downloaded day or two ago, daily builds
21.28.19 #       <amiconn> Pls check the exact version.
21.28.53 #       <lost|X40> is there a way to check that from w/i the iHP?
21.29.21 #       <lost|X40> i see CVS <> flash at the bottom of the screen when booting, but too quickly for me to read
21.29.36 #       <lost|X40> take that back 20050821
21.29.48 #       <amiconn> Check Menu->Info->version
21.29.57 #       <amiconn> There you have 2 seconds to read the version
21.30.21 #       <lost|X40> ok, yea 050821
21.30.29 #       <amiconn> 20050821 had a bug with USB. 20050822 fixed that
21.30.43 #       <lost|X40> ok
21.31.22 #       <lost|X40> that's quick turnaround, thanks alot
21.32.04 #       <lost|X40> wasn't even looking for a fix, just wanted to let you know
21.32.04 #       <amiconn> Btw, I wonder why Linux doesn't recover from a failed USB connect attempt
21.32.15 #       <lost|X40> yea, that's my next chore
21.32.15 #       <amiconn> Others reported that too
21.32.51 #       <lost|X40> or it might be too great of a chore for me, but i'll try
21.33.08 #       <lost|X40> *shrug* i blame everything /dev related on udev
21.33.12 #       <amiconn> Windows doesn't have problems with that. Of course connecting an iriver 20050821 daily doesn't work, but subsequent attempts (new version, bootloader USB etc) work fine
21.33.45 #       <lost|X40> yea, i noticed that too
21.35.53 #       <lost|X40> ok, time to reboot to fix usb, thanks for the help
21.35.59 Quit    lost|X40 ("$##@ usb")
21.44.17 Join    lost|X40 [0] (n=james@c-67-175-166-214.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21.44.30 #       <phaedrus961> amiconn: what did you mean when you said the unicode patch needs proper bidi support?
21.45.21 #       <phaedrus961> (current bidi code is now working with unicode)
21.47.40 #       <amiconn> I'm not an unicode expert, but I think there are at least 2 points:
21.48.29 #       <amiconn> (1) The implementation should know which languages need which direction, and e.g. print arabic and hebrew parts of a string rtl, and latin etc ltr
21.49.10 #       <amiconn> (2) Iirc there are some 'bidi-mark' codes, usable to manually switch direction
21.49.20 #       <phaedrus961> (1) is done
21.50.04 #       <amiconn> If (1) is done, the option for enabling bidi support can go away. It is only needed for the current codepage-based implementation
21.50.57 #       <phaedrus961> good point, I'll change that
21.51.10 #       <wrecker> I'm just updating the WikiManual. Can someone explain to me in easy terms the difference between Track and Album gain on replaygain??
21.51.55 #       <phaedrus961> also, I dont know if the entire string should be reversed or just blocks at a time, the current code does it in blocks, but has support for both ways
21.51.56 #       <paugh> hrm. usb unplug before unmounting is a bad things i take it?
21.52.42 #       <amiconn> phaedrus961: The string can contain parts in different languages, so reversing the entire string is usually wrong
21.53.43 #       <amiconn> Unicode has some more features that are difficult to implement in a compact way, e.g. combining marks
21.53.51 #       <amiconn> - imho -
21.55.07 #       <phaedrus961> yes, what I mean is this: the current implementation will change this "hebrew1 english1 hebrew2" to this "1werbeh english1 2werbeh"
21.55.51 #       <phaedrus961> I think maybe it should be this "2werbeh english1 1werbeh"
21.56.39 #       <phaedrus961> combining marks are also a problem, yes
21.57.14 #       <amiconn> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/
21.57.22 #       <amiconn> 'Fun' to read...
21.57.44 #       <phaedrus961> maybe I should ask someone who uses the language how it should look?
21.58.52 #       <paugh> wrecker, http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-731.html    <- replay gain info
22.00.43 Join    stamppot [0] (n=stamppot@cc516682-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl)
22.01.46 Part    stamppot ("Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org")
22.03.20 #       <phaedrus961> anyways, I will post the patch to the tracker soon, so that others can test it and give feedback on what could be done differently/better
22.11.06 #       <amiconn> phaedrus961: There is some reference code for bidi linked in the web page I gave
22.11.40 #       <amiconn> ...even a C implementation exists, although not explicitly mentioned
22.12.54 #       <wrecker> paugh, I've just looked up some useful descriptions for this on the foobar website. Thanks anyway. I'll check out your link too.
22.19.17 #       <paugh> wrecker, okies
22.20.09 Join    muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d9b8ef4a.pool.mediaWays.net)
22.23.30 Quit    wrecker ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22.27.17 #       <phaedrus961> hmm, it seems a bit involved to implement (just skimmed through it), unfortunately I don't have the time to do it
22.28.37 #       <muesli-> hi
22.58.15 Join    Strath [0] (n=mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a241.wi.tds.net)
22.59.58 Quit    DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.02.35 Quit    matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23.06.39 Join    DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se)
23.11.06 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23.22.39 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23.32.52 #       <Bagder> phaedrus961: here?
23.37.09 Quit    paugh ("Leaving")
23.38.28 #       <t0mas> good night
23.38.33 #       <phaedrus961> yeah
23.38.47 #       <Bagder> if you tell me your last name, I'll add your name to the credits
23.39.03 #       <Bagder> just committed your convbdf patch
23.39.05 #       <phaedrus961> Dischner
23.39.20 #       <Bagder> thanks!
23.39.21 #       <phaedrus961> great!
23.40.19 #       <phaedrus961> maybe you could look at this one too? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1249284
23.40.35 #       <phaedrus961> it's not really a bug fix, but not a feature either
23.41.54 #       <Bagder> still, I'd rather wait with that
23.42.11 #       <phaedrus961> np, just thought I'd ask
23.42.47 Join    mongey [0] (n=d55efaa1@labb.contactor.se)
23.46.18 Quit    thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23.46.18 Quit    mongey (Client Quit)
23.48.59 Join    muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbcb8.b.pppool.de)
23.49.03 #       <amiconn> Bagder: What do you think about disabling functions which do exist for completeness, but aren't used by current code
23.49.05 #       <amiconn> ?
23.49.27 #       <Bagder> you have an example?
23.49.40 #       <amiconn> I mean functions like checkbox(), or the menu functions for moving entries
23.49.57 #       <Bagder> ah
23.50.00 #       <amiconn> We could disable them with #if 0 and leave a comment
23.50.03 #       <Bagder> I'm for disabling them
23.51.39 #       <amiconn> On an unrelated note, I already saved >100 bytes in apps/recorder/widgets.c (from a total of ~620) without disabling checkbox()
23.52.05 #       <Bagder> :-)
23.52.14 #       <amiconn> It is no longer necessary to check coordinate boundaries with the current lcd code
23.52.20 Join    thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s201a.studby.ntnu.no)
23.52.24 #       <amiconn> ...because current lcd code handles clipping
23.52.56 #       <Bagder> right
23.52.56 #       <Bagder> multiple checking for the same things is probably present all over
23.55.18 #       <amiconn> ..and iirc the rockbox philosophy is to not check parameters to just protect from programmer errors
23.55.44 Join    muesli__ [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbcb8.b.pppool.de)
23.55.48 #       <amiconn> Parameter checking to protect from user error, corrupt file data etc is of course a different story
23.55.56 Quit    muesli__ (Client Quit)
23.57.48 Join    einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
23.57.54 Quit    ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))