--- Log for 22.09.105 Server: herbert.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 21 days and 18 hours ago 00.03.02 # firmware upgrading... 00.03.26 # if that works, my bootloader.bin must be correct 00.03.40 # where'd you get it? 00.03.45 # v5 00.03.57 # i hope you're not using a cvs bootloader? :> 00.04.09 # preglow: I have all bootloader versions Linus put up lying around 00.04.13 # goodie 00.04.24 # Well, the MD5 summing would catch if I were anyway 00.06.12 # Maybe not all, but v1 through v5 00.07.08 Quit matsl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.07.39 # Or not... I have SOME bootloaders. 00.07.44 # didnt fix it :( 00.08.01 # unL33T2: that's very improbable 00.08.10 # also the iriver firmware wont allow me to do a DBscan (in the General menu) 00.08.27 # a lot of people have done exactly what you've done, and upgrading to a newer bootloader did wonders 00.08.29 # sigh stupid thing 00.08.36 # as it should 00.08.47 # rasher: you're sure you're using a new fwpatcher? 00.09.00 # well now it says I have v5 now and still have the problem 00.09.03 # I cvsupped a minute ago 00.09.08 # hmmm 00.09.16 # And, he has v5 00.09.21 # that wouldn't happen unless I were. 00.09.21 # that doesn't matter 00.09.25 # it's the mkboot routine that was wrong 00.09.28 # not the bootloader itself 00.09.47 # Oh, the fwpatcher failed? 00.09.52 # yes 00.09.57 # there was a bug in mkboot.c 00.10.00 # well now it says I have v5 00.10.03 # and fwpatcher uses that verbatim 00.10.17 # But but but... it md5sums? 00.10.21 # like i say 00.10.26 # Right. 00.10.26 # hmm 00.10.27 # no 00.10.32 # that should have been picked up, yes 00.10.40 # that it should 00.10.54 # well, i'm stumped 00.10.56 # Well, the md5sums were calculated by running mkboot 00.11.04 # But.. what's the bug, and has it been fixed? 00.11.07 # unL33T2: tried just flashing vanilla iriver? 00.11.13 # rasher: gimme a sec 00.11.30 # I don't see any commits 00.11.52 # rev 1.2 mkboot.c 00.11.58 # Fixed the dreaded 1.65 bootloader incompatibility 00.12.11 # vanilla iriver? 00.12.22 # rasher: and fwpatcher/main.c rev 1.3: Inserted Linus' mkboot.c fix. 00.12.35 # Sure, I have that 00.12.41 # that's that 00.12.46 # Wellthen. 00.12.51 # Now what? 00.12.58 # that's what fixed the 1.65 playback bug 00.13.05 # if all that's in place, i have no idea what's wrong 00.13.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.13.09 # now do I throw it on the ground and stomp on it :P 00.13.12 # unL33T2: well, yeah, there's no other options 00.13.27 # What's the problem? I came in in the middle of this.. 00.13.41 # And there's a lot to read :-\ Quick summary? 00.14.23 # he's got the 1.65 playback problem 00.14.29 # With oggs? 00.14.31 # when I select a song in my iRiver firmware in one of the sorted menus (Artitst, Album, Title, Genre, etc) then it will not play but if I use the browse by folder option then it plays fine. RockBox works fine. 00.14.35 # no with everything 00.14.48 # Have you triedrebuilding the db? 00.14.53 # I have 00.14.54 # the 1.65 bug is the closest thing i can think of, if it's not that, i have no idea what it is 00.15.02 # Sounds like a broken db 00.15.04 # ehhh 00.15.06 # yes 00.15.06 # but the firmware will not allow me to do a DBscan 00.15.07 # definitely 00.15.21 # i thought nothing played in any mode 00.15.23 # oh well then 00.15.33 # the firmware doesn't dbscan 00.15.36 # "not allow"? 00.15.39 # you'll have to do that from a pc, no? 00.15.41 # i go General > DBscan > Yes and it just quits that and goes back to whatever screen was on it 00.15.47 # unL33T2: that's what it does 00.15.59 # unL33T2: the scanning itself has to be done from a computer 00.16.04 # well I can do a db rebuild with moodlogic 00.16.08 # but it doesnt fix it 00.16.15 # What the hell is Moodlogic? 00.16.16 # oh well 00.16.22 # i dunno what came with the iriver ... 00.16.24 # this isn't a rockbox problem, that's for sure 00.16.45 # i know i wasnt sure and was hoping someone here would have the answer 00.16.55 # Are you not usng the DB-create program that came with your player? 00.17.02 # moodlogic is what came with the iriver for creating the db 00.17.14 # mine did not 00.17.18 # i got the iriver program 00.17.25 # mine did ... and it worked before ... 00.17.35 # I think it's what iriver has listed on their site now too 00.17.41 # ok 00.17.42 # Never heard of it 00.17.45 # could you send me the iriver one? maybe it will fix it 00.17.46 # haven't checked their site for yonks 00.17.48 # Hang on 00.18.04 # I'm pretty sure they have old versions of everything lying around 00.18.05 # unL33T2: have you tried deleting the database file before running moodlogic? 00.18.17 # but their site... damn! 00.18.28 # it's a feast for the eyes 00.18.32 # and the patience 00.20.09 # yes it is hard to find anything 00.20.23 # the util on their site is "MoodLogic H Manager" 00.20.26 # which is what I got 00.20.30 # and it sucks 00.20.43 # probably 00.21.05 # but answer this: have you tried deleting the database file before running moodlogic? 00.21.38 # I'm uploading my version now.. 00.21.52 # except nautilus is giving me hell about it 00.21.53 # hang on 00.22.28 # it is the iRivNavi.iDB file? 00.22.36 # yes 00.22.39 # that's the file it generates 00.22.51 # I have tried deleting it several times ... I am noticing that it is always only 448k ... is this correct? 00.23.01 # doesn't sound unreasonable 00.23.10 # for 3000 songs 00.23.30 # sounds reasonable, yes 00.23.30 # ok I deleted it 00.24.02 # MoodLogic > Rebuild MoodLogic Service Database 00.24.12 # took a whole 5 seconds 00.24.27 # Sounds wrong... I'm going to blame moodlogic 00.24.36 # yeah I thought so too 00.24.55 # I've tried it on two PCs and uninstalled/reinstalled it several times 00.25.00 Quit ashridah ("Leaving") 00.25.00 # iriver's db is a friggin joke 00.25.21 # i seem to recall it taking longer the first time after a firmware flash 00.25.36 # pretty irrelevant, i think 00.25.38 # but now it doesnt ... the only thing I can think of is it doesnt like one of my music files and gets stuck on it 00.25.38 # http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iHP-100Manager1.20.exe (not uploaded yet though) 00.26.06 # it does have quite a large list of songs in the dbfail.txt file 00.26.17 # apparently if they have a long filename it gets angry and rejects them 00.26.38 # rasher: let me know when it's ready 00.26.59 # unL33T2: iriver's db format is very poorly thought out 00.27.06 # unL33T2: it's got a fixed file name limit 00.27.20 # unL33T2: you can get http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iHP-100Manager1.20.exe now (if I haven't mistyped the url) 00.27.25 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 00.27.41 # preglow: do you happen to know what the limit is so I can correct it? 00.27.50 # rasher: you don't believe in copy&paste? :) 00.27.51 Quit unL33T2 ("CGI:IRC") 00.27.56 Join unL33T [0] (n=8e9c01df@labb.contactor.se) 00.28.16 # bah I clicked on your link and it cancelled my sign in :P 00.28.28 # could you put it back up again :P 00.28.42 # preglow: not much to copy&paste from 00.28.52 # it didnt work either .... but I have a javascript blocker 00.29.00 # so I'll try it with that disabled 00.29.05 # sign in? javascript? 00.29.16 # nvm, can you just please put the link back up? 00.29.24 # I am in the web client 00.29.29 # I dont have IRC installed 00.29.39 # so when I clicked on the link it brought me out of this page 00.29.40 # unL33T2: you can get http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iHP-100Manager1.20.exe now (if I haven't mistyped the url) 00.29.45 # Ah, I get it now 00.30.25 # i get 404 error :( 00.30.29 # file not found on this server 00.30.30 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 00.30.53 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.30.57 # okay, hang on 00.31.23 # linuxstb: alac going well? no news on aac, i take it? 00.31.35 # unL33T: http://rasher.dk/rockbox/iHP100Manager1.20.exe 00.31.47 # that hould work 00.32.05 # thx 00.32.08 # its downloading 00.32.11 # excellent 00.32.37 # straining the T3 connection I'm on right now 00.32.41 # lol, joking 00.34.03 Join Strath [0] (n=mike@dpc674681214.direcpc.com) 00.34.23 # Think it's hosted on a 2mbps dedicated line.. works well enough most of the time 00.34.33 # preglow: ALAC's fine. About AAC, I haven't done anything more apart from getting libfaad to compile. 00.35.03 # But maybe the Helix decoder would be better - but I'm not sure about the Real license. 00.35.10 # you're not alone in that 00.35.31 # the faad people seem to be going nazi on their license now anyway 00.35.55 # the rpsl is nowhere near gpl compatible 00.36.32 # The ipodlinux people are using the Helix decoder in podzilla - which is GPL'd 00.36.44 # rasher: That was my initial understanding as well. 00.36.57 # They shouldn't be, tbqh 00.37.19 # which license are they using? 00.37.50 # the ipodlinux guys are doing much they shouldn't 00.37.56 # i think they're using a binary mp3 decoder 00.39.25 # this other software is taking longer so probably generating a proper file 00.39.52 # yes, scanning 3000 files is not supposed to be a five second job 00.40.02 # Zagor: Who are you talking about? 00.40.05 # i'll wager this keyboard on that 00.40.11 # unL33T: you could try using tdt.sf.net - I think it generates proper databases 00.40.14 # linuxstb: faad 00.40.22 # it did the last time i tried it, at least 00.40.35 # It's GPL'd, but they have added extra advertising conditions. 00.40.49 # ! 00.40.54 # So it's not GPL'd 00.41.00 # There's some links on the SoundCodecs page to a discussion at HydrogenAudio 00.41.05 # faad2 == nero codec, yes? 00.41.11 # preglow: Yes. 00.41.22 # The requirement is to advertise Nero. 00.41.28 # bloody idiots 00.42.24 # It could be argued that it's just displaying proper copyright attribution - but a FSF lawyer was quoted as saying it was incompatible. This was a couple of months ago, I don't know the current situation. 00.42.53 # The change happened in about February this year I think - so I've been working with the last "free" version of libfaad from their CVS. 00.42.59 # Can anyone fine the addition? 00.43.11 # find. 00.43.44 # fining it sounds more sensible 00.44.05 # and everyone responsible 00.44.48 # Can't find the link to HA 00.44.54 # http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35535&st=0 00.45.01 # i had 110 files "no db" and 103 files "fail" anyone know what that means exactly 00.45.03 # h, there 00.45.32 # Comment #35 is the reply from the FSF lawyer. 00.45.47 # oh jeez 00.45.59 # I don't need an FSF lawyer to tell me that won't hold 00.46.35 # It seems he's not a lawyer, but "GPL compliance engineer" :) 00.46.39 # interesting, i still can run the DBscan feature on the iriver and it still wont play my songs 00.46.50 # but I gotta go get some food. I'll come harass you people some more later :P 00.47.04 # There's no "run the DBscan feature" 00.47.13 # you only need to turn that on once 00.48.24 # unL33T: What happens when you try and play a song using the DB? 00.49.16 # "It is not an additional restriction, it clarifies how we interprent this part of the GPL." 00.49.28 # how you interpret it doesn't matter, silly! 00.49.48 # hahaha 00.50.10 # beat them with sticks until they understand 00.50.25 # I'd go for that solution as well 00.50.41 # if you're going to be picky about advertising, don't bloody gpl your source 00.50.57 # So we agree that we can't use the current version of faad2, and must stick with a "pre-advertising" version? 00.51.04 # linuxstb: indeed 00.51.24 Join Sucka` [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@81.156.157.217) 00.51.29 # Does it matter? 00.51.36 # depends 00.51.37 # (ie. were there any interesting changes since? 00.51.42 # probably 00.51.59 # Problem is that it seems no-one is making a fuss about it - apart from rjamorim 00.52.12 # FAAD2 ATE MY GPL 00.52.37 # linuxstb: well, he's a sensible guy, most of the time 00.52.40 # a lot of people aren't 00.53.33 # most people don't think licenses matter 00.54.01 # the thing is we aren't allowed to distribute faad with rockbox under that license. all of rockbox must use the GPL. 00.54.20 # Indeed 00.54.26 # Just use the CVS version from a while ago 00.54.32 # and ignore them 00.54.33 # he does, so no problem 00.54.48 # yeah, I just mean the issue has merit. 00.54.50 # problem is, they're probably going to implement a few things in the coming time 00.55.02 # but let's hope someone talks/beats some sense into them 00.55.06 # yeah 00.55.14 # They seem to be under the misconception that people have to advertise them 00.55.31 # I seem to recall a certain debackle about the old BSD license because of EXACTLY THIS 00.55.37 # haha 00.55.40 # precisely 00.56.03 Ctcp Version from Rick!i=rick@unaffiliated/Rick 00.56.03 *** Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )' 00.56.08 # people should care about licenses so they don't go about repeating mistakes like this 00.56.09 # that's a good point actually. dig up a good summary of the old bsd debacle and post it there. 00.56.21 # What's logbot running? 00.56.25 # dancer 00.56.32 # Do does the fact that license X is "GPL compatible" mean that I can take that code and distribute it under the GPL? 00.56.44 # Actually, I'll just dig up the offending line from the old BSD license and point them at something KNOWN to be GPL incompatible. 00.56.55 # linuxstb: no, it means it does not violate the terms of the GPL 00.56.57 # linuxstb: I think it means absolutely nothing 00.57.06 # oh, sorry. 00.57.06 # (i believe) 00.57.14 # linuxstb: it means you can distribute it together with GPL software 00.57.15 # I was thinking in the context of RPSL 00.57.29 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa187.7.tellas.gr) 00.57.35 # Zagor: What's the difference between that and distributing it by itself under the GPL? 00.57.36 # all of rockbox doesn't have to be GPL, by the way 00.57.47 # it could be GPL+BSD 00.57.57 # rasher: right, it just needs to be compatible 00.58.00 # as long as the other license doesn't add restrictions. 00.58.18 # Zagor: yup, just clarifying in case someone misunderstood 00.58.33 # preglow: er, I thought dancer was the ircd? 00.58.45 # linuxstb: you are not allowed to change licensing terms on other peoples' property. even if those terms give you permission to redistribute it. 00.58.48 # Rick: there's a dancer ircd and a dancer irb-bot 00.58.49 # Rick: no, bot as well, i believe 00.58.54 # ah 00.59.13 # Zagor: you can relicense BSD stuff, can't you? 00.59.41 # no 01.00.07 # nevermind me. 01.01.05 # "You would be best using Reals HE-AAC implementation, with a less restrictive license:" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOo 01.01.07 # he didn't! 01.01.09 Quit Sucka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.01.14 Quit ender` (No route to host) 01.02.05 # linuxstb: post #29 already did what I'm aboout to do 01.02.14 # Apparently I just turned Canadian. 01.02.35 # haha 01.07.54 # Just read that the Helix AAC integer decoder is highly optimised for the ARM - which explains the appeal to ipodlinux 01.09.12 # Still don't explain how they think they're allowed to combine RPSL code with gpl 01.09.28 # ok, i've degenerated to one-liner cvs commits 01.09.34 # the rpsl is chuck full of additional restrictions right from the get-go 01.10.13 # generally, people are happy ignoring license terms in favour of convenience, so 01.10.38 # I don't understand this. 01.10.55 # At least not if you're a fairly prominent community effort 01.11.15 # the whole fact they're running linux on the thing doesn't exactly speak of sanity 01.11.24 # honestly, I wouldn't say ipodlinx is very prominent 01.11.28 # If you're breaking licensing terms in your own basement, I guess I could sortof understand it 01.11.57 # well, embedded hw companies are often happy to break the gpl 01.12.25 # there are still embedded devices out there with broadcom drivers statically linked to a linux kernel 01.12.28 # Yeah, that's particularly nasty. 01.12.42 # And lots based on busybox 01.12.49 # http://www.busybox.net/shame.html 01.12.55 # didn't good old iriver have one of those cases? 01.13.05 # there are also a heapload of linux ports for targets where linux officially does not run 01.13.17 # My parents have an Allnet 0186 :-\ 01.15.04 # rasher: how about popping into #ipodlinux and ask? 01.15.14 # I don't think any good will come of it 01.15.22 # probably not 01.15.40 # I think coob commented it at some point 01.18.17 Quit DrMoos ("Glory to Rockbox") 01.19.22 # or not 01.23.43 # I just asked them 01.25.20 # and got a response? 01.25.29 # Not yet 01.25.35 # we'll see 01.27.56 # preglow: what did your commit fix? 01.28.13 # no fix like that 01.28.20 # jusdt saved a few cpu cycles 01.28.26 # Ah 01.28.45 # Didn't know what an "emac stall" would do 01.29.01 # an emac stall is what happens if you try to get a result out of the emac unit before it's done 01.29.10 # so i just made the routine do something else while waiting 01.29.28 # Makes sense. 01.29.36 # even to me 01.29.36 # ahh, but this might not work at all, the mulu instruction uses the emac unit on 5249... oh well, at least i didn't make it any worse 01.31.41 # i'm off to bed. night guys. 01.31.41 # i was just reading through the tremor assembler and caught it 01.31.44 # night 01.31.50 # guess i should go to bed myself 01.34.34 Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) 01.36.35 # Shut up, lilo. 01.37.31 # rasher, Those are harsh words to lilo.. He could kline you in a heartbeat :) 01.38.03 # He could. 01.38.13 Quit paugh ("bbiab") 01.38.18 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving") 01.38.29 # His endless chattering just annoys me. 01.40.55 # http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=872.msg9290#msg9290 it's a Rockbox! 01.47.33 Join Febs [0] (n=Febs@207-172-122-81.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) 01.47.44 # Evening Febs 01.47.48 # Hi there. 01.48.01 # I see that wrecker restored the ManualMainMenu page. 01.48.10 # Yeah, an epic task well done. 01.48.39 # Definitely. Although he deleted the table that I was working on as a concept for how to organize that front page. But I can pull that from the earlier version. 01.48.41 # * rasher considers creating a list of pages with missing attachments 01.49.03 # more lists, more work 01.49.22 # So true. 01.49.38 # This is what I was playing around with for the manual: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ManualMainMenu?rev=1.1 01.49.51 # But the wiki table format just doesn't achieve what I was trying to do. 01.50.00 # But it's better than having the pages vanish in their current state 01.50.46 # I'm not really understanding this 01.50.56 # But I'm sure it was a plan 01.51.53 # I was trying to create a pseudographic depiction of the main menu hierarchy. It would be easier to see if there were a way to join vertical cells. 01.52.04 # I may play around with an html table. 01.53.06 # Was "breakingthelawforrecording" deleted, or did I just falsely mark it as restored? 01.53.11 # What I had in mind was to try to show something like the "User Interface" section of this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TagDatabase 01.53.29 # except with hyperlinks to the appropriate entry in the manual. 01.53.55 # ah 01.54.26 # I couldn't figure out any way to do that sort of text outline (which requires the [verbatim] tag) and still include WikiNames. 01.54.43 # use 
01.55.06 #        the wiki won't mind it
01.55.35 #        Hmm.  I'll try it out.  I thought that did the opposite of what I am trying to do.
01.56.04 #        I WANT the wiki names to create links.  But I want to use fixed width spacing.
01.56.25 #        I'm pretty sure 
 will do that
01.56.32 #        I'll play with it.
01.56.42 #         will tell the wiki not to touch WikiWords
01.56.58 #        
 will just be stuck in the html, and the wiki will continue
01.57.11 #        OK.
01.58.45 #        I just had another idea ... I could take actual screen shots and use ImageReady in Photoshop to create slices so that people could click directly on the menu option in the screen shot.
01.59.18 #        Actually, though, that would be more of a gimic than a practical way to maintain the online manual, since it would be a PITA to keep up to date.
01.59.27 #        And blind users would kill you
01.59.33 #        Excellent point.
01.59.44 #        They might do that with your current idea as well
02.00.04 #        Another good point.
02.00.31 #        I like the way the current table of contents shows the menu hierarchy, but the problem is that the page gets too long.
02.01.14 #        And it's different to follow the hierarchy when you're far down on the page, away from the TOC.
02.01.19 #        different=difficult
02.02.02 #        That's true
02.04.00 #       * rasher sicks w3c's link checker on DataSheets
02.06.29 #        ouch, 22 broken links
02.11.47 #        nite, people
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03.05.00 #        been gone for awhile but I'm back.  I reformatted my iRiver and loaded only one album onto it and rebuilt the database and it worked through the sorted menus.
03.05.15 #        so now I am loading all my music back onto it and hopefully it will continue to work
03.06.41 #        thanks to everyone that was trying to help me with it (rasher and preglow)
03.07.19 #        Could be your filesystem was slightly upsetting the database generator in some way
03.07.28 #        maybe
03.07.46 #        I suppose I should've run chkdsk first ... i didnt even think of that
03.07.48 #        I've no idea how well the generator works, haven't ever used i
03.07.53 #        it.
03.08.09 #        well I like the one you sent me better than moodlogic
03.08.24 #        moodlogic runs in the background all the time and I can never tell when its doing something and when it isnt
03.08.51 #        and everytime you move any kind of audio file on your computer it starts scanning it and updating some mystery database it keeps of all the music on your computer
03.09.20 #        at least I think that's what it does ... it makes working with audio much slower and annoying because I have a stupid message pop up everytime I move, copy, or generate an audio file
03.10.43 #        Wow, that sounds ghastly
03.11.43 #        yes horrible.  so thank you very much for the older iRiver software
03.16.54 #        You're much welcome
03.18.29 #        unL33T, have you tried TDT for building the database?
03.18.39 #        http://tdt.sourceforge.net
03.19.32 #        Much better than MoodLogic.
03.21.14 #        wow that looks pretty good
03.21.52 #        looks even better than the older iRiver software because it autorenames to fix the long name limit and supports many file times
03.21.54 #        types*
03.21.59 Quit    cYmen ("zZz")
03.22.57 #        Febs: thanks
03.23.35 #       * rasher mumbles something about having mentioned tdt already
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03.25.50 #        to confirm the need to replace a bad IC for a charging problem, does the jb recorder 20 [rockbox 2.4, 1.8, not flashed] present with charging screen active with charger connected, yet actually results in draining the batteries?
03.26.19 #        trying to rule a few things out
03.28.04 #        lol rasher, I didnt notice you say anything about TDT...
03.28.15 #        if you did then thank you too =)
03.28.56 Quit    bagawk ("Leaving")
03.29.28 #        It was sortof mashed in between a lot of other comments, don't blame you for not noticing
03.34.33 #        i hope my battery doesnt go dead while transferring songs... I only have one bar left and still 10 min left to transfer it back
03.34.44 #        why can't usb2.0 go faster :P
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03.47.29 #        HCl: Is the makedbj.bat and SongDB.jar on TagDatabase up to date?
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03.54.28 Quit    Sucka` ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
03.58.27 #        so noone has ever had to replace that IC for a charging problem? you guys have all upgraded
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06.48.59 Join    LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se)
06.49.25 #        Morning LinusN
06.49.36 #        morning
06.49.49 #        I found a bunch of DataSheets
06.50.03 #        so now DataSheets is mostly back to what it was
06.52.36 Join    amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD5D71.dip.t-dialin.net)
06.52.36 #        what is missing?
06.53.05 #         pcf50606.pdf 	 Philips PCF50606
06.53.05 #        mas35x9f_2ds.pdf 	Micronas MAS3539F
06.53.05 #        SCF5250UM.pdf 	SCF5250 Coldfire User's Manual
06.53.20 #        i have those
06.53.25 #        http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataSheets has a list
06.53.38 #        I figured they'd be around
06.55.52 #        morning
06.55.55 #        Lots of missing attachments still. At leasat 127 unless I messed up
06.56.03 Quit    amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
06.56.03 Nick    amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@p54BD5D71.dip.t-dialin.net)
06.56.06 #        least.
06.56.08 #        morning amiconn 
06.56.19 #        rasher: This DataSheets isn't the latest
06.56.25 #        The MAS wav codec is missing
06.56.31 #        I have those files
06.56.33 #        When was that uploaded?
06.57.18 #        I don't remember exactly; [IDC]Dragon did that
06.57.38 #        Ah yes, this is one of the pages that lost a few revisions
06.57.42 #        A list of topics with missing attachments could be helpful imho
06.58.24 #        Last one available was 1.70(2005-08-12), should be 1.74(2005-09-14)
06.58.27 #        ok, all missing attachments uploaded
06.58.38 #        so DataSheets is done, excellent
06.58.54 #        I'll make a list, hang on
07.02.31 #        LinusN: Not all...
07.03.06 #        all the ones missing compared to r1.70
07.03.27 #        which is our only real reference point
07.05.06 #        still broken links on that page?
07.07.35 #        http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MissingAttachments
07.09.56 #        sortof disheartening
07.13.01 #        DisassemblePlayer, DisassemblePlayer2, the archos part of HardwareSchematics, ReassemblePlayer, Rs232Converter, SerialPort should be simple, these are straight conversions of old /docs pages
07.13.21 #        UartBoot is my task...
07.13.47 #        Ah, that's good
07.13.53 #        The DeviceChart H-140 pics as well...
07.14.04 #        the iriver schematics are recovered
07.14.11 #        I have the igp100 internals
07.14.44 #        the HardwareSchematics page was renamed from IriverSchematics, and the attachments in the backup was still in IriverSchematics
07.15.29 #        No broken links on DataSheets
07.15.41 #        According to w3c's link checker
07.17.55 #        LinusN: Diff topic - as we now know that the bitshifting is a MAS bug that can't be avoided, we need to work around it
07.18.02 #        (by walking the frames)
07.18.04 #        yes
07.18.39 #        Although I think that walking the frames shouldn't be difficult, implementing that will take some days, especially as it requires testing
07.19.00 #        i think that should be a 2.5.1 release
07.19.01 #        I think this doesn't justify to hold back 2.5 any longer...
07.19.42 #        or even 2.6 - in two months!
07.19.45 #        Either we do a 2.5.1 release when it's done, or that has to wait for 2.6 (which will hopefully be released roughly on schedule)
07.20.04 #        it's not like things aren't much better now
07.20.34 #        Today is the beginning of autumn. Is that a fine day for release? ;)
07.21.23 #        Of course we should list that as known bug, along with a comment saying it's got much better since 2.3/2.4
07.22.32 #        LinusN: and it seems you're right, there is a performance problem, not in our transfer routine, but in the MAS
07.22.44 #        My release note draft has a "known bugs" section - I suggest putting some stuff from ReleaseTodo there
07.22.51 #        If the MAS has got too do too much at once it starts making errors
07.23.21 #        ...and transferring data adds to the total load, the faster we transfer, the more load it adds
07.23.35 #        figures
07.23.53 #        After all there is a reason why the archos recorder manual says q=7 isn't recommended...
07.24.33 #       * rasher glares at rockbox.org/docs/
07.24.54 #        is this referenced anywhere now?
07.26.34 #        so much fun stuff outside the wiki
07.29.28 #        LinusN: Btw, I think the recording code size will even get smaller when adding frame walking. A number of frame searches can go away, as audiobuf_write will always point to a frame boundary.
07.29.58 #        yeah
07.30.05 #        ...and we get an exact frame count, no need to read the mas or do crude estimates
07.34.36 #        ...and finally, we won't get a partial last frame in the file when stopping the recording
07.35.28 #        true again
07.38.03 #        The mas overload theory also explains why disabling the peakmeter (only) reduced the error probability
07.46.21 Join    t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas)
08.06.53 Join    ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220)
08.10.30 #        So the release is going to happen Real Soon Now?
08.13.15 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08.18.50 #        guess so
08.29.31 Join    paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
09.02.48 Join    _nrg_ [0] (n=nrg@81.175.93.62)
09.11.56 Join    B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se)
09.12.21 #        morning B4gder 
09.12.25 #        hey ho
09.13.09 Join    preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no)
09.21.25 #       * preglow freezes to death
09.43.11 Join    markun [0] (n=markun@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl)
09.43.53 Join    Dan [0] (i=Bollocks@tredwell.plus.com)
09.43.55 #        hi
09.44.02 #        'lo
09.44.20 #        how can i install rockboy?
09.44.21 #        xD
09.44.36 #        rockboy is installed when you install rockbox
09.44.45 #        but then you need gameboy roms
09.44.45 #        WHA
09.44.54 #        oh kool
09.49.12 #        about time someone optimised rockbox :>
09.49.18 #        rockboy, even
09.51.10 #        all that's left for a release now is for zagor to press his button?
09.51.28 #       * Zagor wakes up
09.51.40 #        The Button Presser (tm)
09.51.48 Quit    Seed (Nick collision from services.)
09.51.56 Join    Seed [0] (i=ben@l192-117-115-168.broadband.actcom.net.il)
09.52.23 #        I certainly think so, but have amiconn and LinusN given their blessings?
09.54.12 #        linus already has, i believe, and amiconn doesn't think it's worth delaying 2.5 for the recording fix
09.54.23 #        but i bet there's some docs left to be done
09.54.32 #        r r r r release!
09.54.41 #         I think this doesn't justify to hold back 2.5 any longer...
09.54.52 Mode    "#RockBox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09.55.01 Topic   "Buckle up" by B4gder (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se)
09.55.09 #       * preglow does the buckling
09.55.53 #        then there's nothing to wait for
09.56.02 #        massive warnings building the tools. "scramble.c:103: warning: pointer targets in assignment differ in signedness"
09.56.16 #        Zagor: gcc 4?
09.56.21 #        yes
09.56.26 #        right
09.56.35 #        we have LOADS of gcc4 warnings to fix
09.56.41 #        most of the legitemate
09.56.47 #        them
09.57.07 #        Zagor: configure disables them on purpose for the regular (sim) build
09.57.21 #        fine, i'll just ignore them for now then
09.57.29 #        yes, we'll deal with them post 2.5
10.00.32 Quit    solexx_ ("leaving")
10.01.33 Join    solexx [0] (n=jrschulz@d098198.adsl.hansenet.de)
10.05.47 #        Should we add to the CREDITS file people who have unknowingly contributed code to Rockbox - such as the codec library authors and the authors of other GPL'd code that we incorporate?
10.06.13 #        hmm
10.06.15 #        good question
10.06.18 #        i think the info should be somewhere, at least
10.06.18 #        I think not
10.06.24 #        but in what form, i know not
10.06.27 #        i think CREDITS is the wrong place
10.06.29 #        but we should definitely have it somewhere
10.06.35 #        It's in the source.
10.06.51 #        I think we should have it in the docs and webpage too
10.07.02 #        Why not the CREDITS file then?
10.07.21 #        We could add (e.g.) "Josh Coalson (libFLAC)"
10.07.31 #        because of his ugly code
10.07.36 #        because I think CREDITS should be for the persons involved in Rockbox
10.08.12 #        we could have a second CREDITS for people who did things in projects we depend upon
10.08.30 #        i agree, or a special section in credits
10.08.42 #        right, could be a section as well
10.08.46 #        in a related note, the credits are unreadable on irive r:/
10.08.58 #        I have a fix pending for that
10.09.01 #        ooh
10.09.02 #        nicety
10.09.11 #        with the speed as a sine
10.09.18 #        so that it stops occationally
10.09.18 #        B4gder: good idea
10.10.15 #        i've got a feeling we'll be needing a sin()-like function some place central in rockbox soon
10.10.35 #        hehe
10.13.19 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10.14.02 Join    ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-120-177.VIC.netspace.net.au)
10.16.56 #        B4gder: did you see the faad license discussion late last night? about 00:35 in todays log.
10.17.04 #        no
10.18.15 #        now I have
10.18.19 #        been reading about that before
10.18.46 #        ok
10.19.00 #        licenses always cause so much confusion
10.21.42 #        it is an obvious GPL violation
10.22.18 #        quite
10.25.30 #        but as you said, people tend to ignore license quirks that would make life hard to themselves
10.26.05 #        like those helix/nero licenses to any GPL project
10.26.49 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
10.33.36 #        Rockbox 2.5 is now released
10.34.43 #        woot
10.39.07 Topic   "Rockbox 2.5 - yes, it is true. Go get it." by B4gder (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se)
10.39.53 #        and now, unfreeze!
10.40.14 #        who's gonna be the first to commit? ;-)
10.40.49 Join    linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
10.41.33 Quit    linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10.42.54 Join    webguest30 [0] (n=50ca630c@labb.contactor.se)
10.44.45 #        Hi, congrats on the release. Just curious, what happens when you release a new version, do you send an announcement to some places, or just advertise on the rockbox-site/mailinglist?
10.45.03 #        on the site, on the list and on freshmeat
10.45.29 #        is what we usually do
10.46.11 #        Ah, ok. Should have guessed. Interesting with this open source community.
10.46.48 #        I wasn´t really interested a while ago, but rockbox has opened up my eyes.
10.47.20 Part    webguest30
10.51.37 Quit    paugh ("Leaving")
10.53.46 #        and linuxstb is the winner!
10.54.06 #        yay
10.54.51 Quit    linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10.54.55 Join    gzed [0] (n=giuseppe@85-18-14-23.fastres.net)
10.55.16 #        Sorry, forgot to implement my change to plugin.[ch] first - I added the menu functions.  It's committed now.
10.56.14 Part    gzed ("Parting")
10.59.21 #        linuxstb__: now hit us with some alac :P
11.02.31 Join    [IDC]Dragon [0] (n=d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
11.02.56 #       * [IDC]Dragon cheers for v.5
11.03.14 #       <[IDC]Dragon>   v2.5 rather
11.03.17 #        preglow: I want to commit ALAC slowly - i.e. commit the original unmodified decoder first, and then apply my changes incrementally so we have a record of them in CVS
11.03.22 #        I'll do it this evening.
11.03.26 #        sure
11.04.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I need to get gcc-sh 3.3.6 running
11.05.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> to make the proper v2.5 bootbox build
11.05.58 #        why don't you use 3.4 for sh?
11.06.04 #        larger code?
11.06.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> too buggy
11.12.22 Join    am1conn [0] (n=c1af49c9@labb.contactor.se)
11.12.29 #        hi, amiconn
11.12.29 #        For anyone wanting try out Sudoku, you need some ".ss" files - these are simple text files containing the starting Sudoku games.  You can download some examples from http://www.angusj.com/sudoku/
11.13.28 #        nice
11.13.37 #        does this mean the feature freeze has been lifted?
11.16.10 #        HCl: Yes.
11.17.38 #        good :p
11.17.45 #        anyo make rockbox play .swfs yes?
11.17.48 #        *yet
11.17.54 #        *anyone
11.18.03 #        *icantfuckinspelltoday
11.18.05 #        i still need to know whether everyone agrees to upgrade the hash to 128bit + a hashtype field
11.18.14 #        swf..
11.18.22 #        whats swf ?
11.18.32 #        flash
11.18.38 #        oi
11.18.41 #        ahhaha
11.18.46 #        now why the frigging hell would we want that
11.18.51 #        i highly, highly, highly doubt that
11.18.52 #        lol
11.19.02 #        so i can have the dancing spiderman on my mp3
11.19.03 #        lol
11.19.32 #        bloody flash advertising has almost driven me to suicide on itself so far, i don't want to expose my poor little h120 to it
11.19.35 #        why hasn't anyone updated the webpage about the release? lol
11.19.38 #        it'll be bricked for sure
11.19.51 #        preglow:  The primary reason for gcc 3.3.x for sh1 is code size
11.20.25 #        HCl: well, i for one think it's a good idea, but then i'm not involved with the db at all
11.20.41 #        mhm
11.20.46 #        i'll prog bagder again
11.21.00 #        prod
11.31.44 Join    Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
11.32.10 #        Jesus Christ, it happened!
11.33.16 #        Hello guys, the release is here
11.33.25 #        i didn't notice
11.33.26 #        though the website is oddly silent about it
11.33.27 #        alelouya my brothers :)
11.33.52 #        feck
11.33.59 #        no video plugin for iriver
11.34.00 #        :/
11.34.29 #        that ever gunna happen?
11.35.29 #       * rasher updates the front page
11.35.44 #        Dan: not for a long time
11.35.50 #        damn
11.35.56 #        Dan: unless you mean the rvf format, which might happen soonish
11.36.08 #        oh
11.36.12 #        well thatl do
11.36.12 #        Someone is working on the video plugin, but I think we need to give plugins access to the audio codecs in order to play video with sound.
11.36.22 #        indeed
11.36.25 #        that we do
11.37.12 #        Or perhaps video playback should be part of the core rockbox...
11.40.28 #        Does anyone else have any new features waiting to commit?
11.40.29 #        hmm
11.40.59 #        linuxstb__: yes, i believe slasheri will try to persuade zagor & co to let him commit his new dir tree caching
11.41.12 #        the V2 of Bagder :D
11.41.20 #        which i think sounds like a smashing idea, heh
11.41.58 #        yes, i will try to commit that and also enable the recording menu on iriver (but i don't have time before the next week to prepare these commits)
11.42.16 #        :/
11.42.52 #        then you're commiting the wav writer? :P
11.43.23 #        hehe :D hmm, maybe when i have done all the pending bugfixes :)
11.44.54 #        i suggest you add the cache code to the patch tracker so we can review it
11.45.15 #       * rasher roots for the plasma plugin
11.45.20 #        LinusN: hmm, i can do that :)
11.45.22 #        ooh, yes
11.45.28 #        but not before the next week :/
11.45.34 #        no hurry
11.46.20 #        i have done very minimal changes to existing files and i think the cache code itself is very error proof (it will disable itself if it finds any problems)
11.46.20 #        Slasheri: code is quite clean, yes? all the new code is in one file and only minor modifications to the rest?
11.46.25 #        yes
11.46.29 #        then stellar
11.46.34 #        i can see no flaws
11.46.54 #        i just want to see it before you commit it
11.47.01 #        sure
11.48.01 #        great news for us compulsive browsers
11.48.43 #        Guess I can start my patched builds again
11.54.00 #        as soon as everyone agrees on my proposed database changes, i'll finish and commit those
11.54.21 #        please do :)
11.58.35 #        Could someone have a look at my iRiver-presets radio patch - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/radio.c.patch.txt
11.59.27 #        It's trivial, but I've changed the way the items added the menu are selected - currently it's hard-coded for the Ondio, but I changed it so that any function not assigned to a key is added to the menu.
11.59.59 #        I think it's OK, but would like someone else to say that that change is the right way to go.
12.05.52 Join    XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp13-adsl-27.ath.forthnet.gr)
12.06.51 #        Hi all!
12.13.21 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12.19.06 #        linuxstb__: afraid i have no idea if it's good or not
12.20.13 #        t0mas (I believe it was) asked the same question, and I believe B4gder said it looked fine. Better search the logs though
12.21.06 #        Hm. Maybe it wasn't him.
12.21.27 #        Ah, tucoz. Started with a t.
12.22.16 #        rockbox-20050915.txt:23.47.15
12.22.32 #        and it was amiconn who said he "can't imagine what problems should arise from enabling fm presets on iriver this way"
12.22.54 #        That was for only adding || IRIVER_H100_PAD though
12.24.53 #        bloody windows. how the hell does a cdrom drive on one ide controller screw up disk access to something on a completely different controller
12.25.32 #        ashridah: with great ease and elegance
12.25.46 #        clearly
12.26.59 #        Hrm, wav patch doesn't apply cleanly
12.27.00 Quit    am1conn ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
12.27.38 #        rasher: i believe lear is on that
12.29.01 #        okay
12.29.24 Part    LinusN
12.33.00 #        Unless anyone shouts, I'll commit that radio patch this evening (UK time).
12.33.14 #        if amiconn said it looks good, i'm all for it
12.33.21 #        I changed the battery indicator to always show graphical when the charger is inserted. It there a reason why this was not done?
12.33.54 #        It's the wrong fix
12.34.56 Join    StrathAFK [0] (n=mike@dpc674681214.direcpc.com)
12.35.01 #        you want to switch when *charging*
12.35.11 #        But the iriver doesn't detect this yet
12.35.17 #        i don't think it ever will
12.35.48 #        How could you detect it? With an ampere meter maybe.
12.35.50 #        Hm, didn't sound like that when I asked Linus about it
12.35.57 #        then hooray!
12.36.06 #        There was a patch to do just this
12.36.14 #        I may have misunderstood something I guess
12.37.44 #        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=44306&atid=439120&func=detail&aid=1256003
12.38.06 #       * preglow prepares for acting the fool
12.38.43 #        " yes, you can close it, with the comment that it will be solved in a different way when the charging detection is implemented"
12.42.19 #        Is it possible to detect somehow if the charger led is on?
12.44.49 Join    amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD5D71.dip.t-dialin.net)
12.49.30 Quit    XavierGr ()
12.51.18 Quit    Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12.55.29 #        Any good patches I need in my build?
12.56.42 Quit    Dan ()
12.58.36 Join    cYmen [0] (n=cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
13.03.16 Quit    amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13.03.16 Nick    amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@p54BD5D71.dip.t-dialin.net)
13.05.26 Join    am1conn [0] (n=c1af49c9@labb.contactor.se)
13.12.14 #       * preglow vanishes
13.17.16 #        Is there any reason not to accept http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1285384 ?
13.18.03 #        apart from the C++ comments, no I don't think so
13.19.01 #        linuxstb__:  There are a lot of warnings for H1x0 since your sudoku commits...
13.19.38 #        I guess it is time to remove the gcc4 warning inhibits soon
13.20.29 #        am1conn: The Daily Builds page is OK.  The first compile failed because I forgot to commit my plugin.[ch] changes first.
13.20.44 #        linuxstb__: h3x0
13.21.02 #        Yes, I noticed the h3x0 - but am1conn said H1x0
13.21.15 #        Ah. I'm blind.
13.21.19 #        Maybe he did mean 3x0?
13.21.43 #        I'll fix the h3x0 this evening - I don't think it's urgent.
13.22.03 #        Unless people start shouting at me.
13.22.57 #       * am1conn seems to be blind...
13.24.19 Join    tomylee [0] (i=tlapalto@85-124-2-84.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
13.24.28 #        hi guys
13.25.43 #        i have some questions, and i need help, my iriver doesnt work anymore, after using it with rockbox, playing an mp3 and playing minesweeper at the same time - made it crash
13.26.05 #        crash how?
13.26.31 #        and when plugged in you used usb, then rockbox isn't doing anything
13.26.32 #        there was an error message
13.26.40 #        yes
13.26.54 #        well, after the battery was empty, i was able to get to usb mode
13.27.17 #        what i did first, was to delete all the rockbox files on the disk to make it start with original firmware
13.27.39 #        thats where i am now
13.28.02 #        and you've made sure you've charged it a good while?
13.28.18 #        rockbox can still start when the original can't
13.28.22 #        battery-wise
13.28.33 #        ah
13.28.53 #        so you mean I should charge it a while, before trying this?
13.28.57 #        yes
13.29.03 #        let it charge for an hour and then retry
13.29.21 #        Does the bootloader automatically run the original firmware if rockbox.iriver isn't found?
13.29.27 #        linuxstb__: yes
13.30.00 #        ok
13.30.17 #        B4gder: I'll add the remote-hold-fix then
13.30.34 #        go!
13.30.34 #        (works correctly)
13.30.54 #        me and linus will be away starting soon til the end of the weekend
13.31.15 #        what about the archos players, why are there so many features implemented by rockbox, and so few in the iriver...? were the archos players first on the market, or are they the better hardware to work with?
13.31.31 #        can't exactly say we lack many of the archos features
13.31.44 #        archos was first but mainly we started working with those players
13.32.17 #        but I agree, there aren't that many features left that archos has that iriver doesn't
13.32.39 #       * preglow woots the langv2 commit
13.32.52 #        it is still early though
13.33.00 #        just parsing the XML-like file
13.33.12 #        still, means works is being done
13.33.18 #        yes
13.33.19 #        but now i need to leave
13.33.21 #        *poof*
13.33.22 #        yeah, i cant await the recording feature for irivers, mainly the lossless mode, and the continuous recording of very big files
13.33.57 #        I'm now creating patched builds again, if anyone's interested: http://rasher.dk/rockbox/
13.34.00 #        Does "langv2" imply plugins will now be translated, or is that a different issue?  I haven't been following the langv2 development.
13.34.14 #        it is actually a HUGE take
13.34.20 #        so yes, it means translated plugins
13.34.24 #        and many other fixes
13.34.33 #        like target-adjusted translations
13.36.03 #        Is there a Wiki page about it?
13.36.18 #        http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/langv2
13.36.25 #        only my write-up
13.36.30 #        Thanks.
13.36.34 #        should of course be converted to a wiki
13.37.55 #       * linuxstb__ notices that if he adds an iPod target to the build system it will be target #13
13.38.17 #        hahaha
13.39.33 #        I need to decide how we are going to split the ipod targets - there are about 7 or 8 different devices.  ipodlinux just does everything at runtime but I don't think that's right for Rockbox - espeically the different LCD sizes and depths won't work.
13.40.19 #        then start with a target for the first model you go with
13.40.36 #        linuxstb__: we like many targets. witness the spectrum of archos ones :-)
13.40.44 #        the more the merrier!
13.41.13 #       * rasher fiddles with FM presets
13.41.19 #        I need to decide how to name the #defines - e.g. if particular features depend on processor, LCD type, keypad type etc.  ipodlinux isn't clear in the distinction, so it needs a little research to do it right.
13.41.40 #        I'm expecting a long joystick press to bring up something..
13.42.03 #        rasher: Are you talking about my radio patch for iriver?
13.42.07 #        Yes
13.42.34 #        Just added it to my customized build.. I'll never be able to cvsup this mess
13.43.15 #        by the way, are you regular iriver users happy with the button bindings? As an old archos user I find them terribly confusing.
13.43.41 #        I'm mostly used to the way it is now
13.43.46 #        me too
13.43.55 #        But the lack of context-menu on the radio screen confuses me.
13.44.03 #        I'm used to them as well, but I never used the iriver firmware, and I haven't used Rockbox on Archos for a long time.
13.44.04 #        Since it's available everywhere else
13.44.44 #        The record button should do something though.
13.44.51 #        yes
13.45.02 #        not quite sure what it should be though
13.45.09 #        Record?
13.45.15 #        a long keypress could go to the record screen?
13.45.20 #        yes record
13.45.28 #        ;)
13.45.28 #        not a short one please
13.45.39 #        I mean the record button should bring up record - everywhere.
13.45.54 #        Yes, but a long keypress please?
13.46.06 #        So you don't get yanked out of something
13.46.07 #        yes long, why not, it is original like that
13.46.12 #        people are used to it
13.46.15 #        just as me
13.46.45 #        I don't think short keypresses should interrupt what you're doing (of course, STOP being an exception - I'm sure there are others like that)
13.46.49 #        in general I'm against having a single function to a button all over
13.47.25 #        since it restricts the ui so much
13.47.33 #        It makes sense though, and we have this rejected baby button that's not doing much anyway
13.47.44 #        yes, in this case it might not be that bad
13.47.53 #        but I wouldn't want it to start a trend 
13.48.15 #        like the good old "I want up/down to change volume everywhere" etc
13.48.26 #        People actually said that?
13.48.29 #        yes
13.48.35 #        long time ago though
13.48.35 #        Wow
13.48.50 #        but people always tend to come up with a button they want to act the same all over
13.49.13 #        It would be great to have dedicated volume controls, but not at the expense of being able to navigate menus!
13.49.50 #        Hm, shouldn't one of the menus on the fm screen be activated like the context-menu is elsewhere?
13.49.54 #        For consistency
13.50.02 #        Can't figure out which one though.
13.50.41 #        (hmm, i can hear parts moving around in my iriver since the last phisical crash... :(
13.50.58 #        physical crashes will do that I'm afraid
13.51.27 #        yes...but it loaded to usb mode, thats a good sign though
13.51.56 #        i hope everything is fine after the hour of charginc, as b4gder recommended
13.53.18 #        see ya monday
13.53.19 Quit    B4gder ("time to say moo")
13.53.39 #        about interface, i would suggest sollofing: keeping the funktions froms the original as far as possible, and advancing the functions (of buttons maybe) only in submenus, somehow hidden - so the normal user will be comfortable with rockbocky anyways
13.54.18 #        tomylee: the original navigation is so horrible I'm afraid that's not an option
13.54.34 #        also Rockbox is not an iriver improvement firmware. it's multiplatform.
13.55.23 #        yes, the navigation has to be changed, but the side buttond functions are logical in some way
13.55.46 #        a-b does so much more on iriver as well, I don't think I
13.55.48 #        I agree - it's more important for Rockbox to be consistent across platforms than consistent with the "native" firmware of each target.
13.55.53 #        yes, but keeping them to their labeled purpose only would severely cripple the interface
13.55.56 #        I've ever actually *used* it for a-b repeat
13.56.02 Join    tucoz [0] (n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se)
13.56.43 #        I think we should have a big button discussion before the first iriver release. I believe we can improve it.
13.57.02 #        psst, joystick-press should be renamed to something else than play (like in the confirm delete action). But I believe that is another issue.
13.57.24 #        "Select"
13.57.26 #        tucoz: it's a related, and adds to the confusion
13.57.49 #        "select" is pretty good
13.57.56 #        But, the langv2 will be able to handle that better i suppose
13.58.04 #        yes
13.58.09 #        different names for different platforms
13.58.53 #        But I agree that joystick press needs to be something--anything--other than "Play."  Having it called "Play" when there is already a play button has made it very difficult for me to write documentation.
13.59.00 #        Probably my biggest wish for Rockbox is a sort of task-switching concept.  So a user can  "alt+TAB" between screens such as WPS, the file browser and a plugin.
13.59.02 #        Select is good. Hmm, then "long press select"
13.59.20 #        for long presses?
13.59.51 #        linuxstb__: well we have it for wps/browser already. plugins are more difficult since we don't have any control over them. it would require dual screen buffers etc.
14.00.16 #        linuxstb: cool idea. Maybe the record-button could be used for that
14.00.26 #        Zagor: Yes, I just want to take it slightly further.  So each screen would need it's own lcd buffer.
14.00.41 #        why?
14.01.06 #        for easy access between different parts of rockbox perhaps?
14.01.42 #        tucoz: not "why the feature". why a buffer for each screen. we already do it fine with a single buffer for everything.
14.01.51 #        Oh, sorry
14.02.09 #        plugins could work too if they were modified to accept a "redraw" message
14.02.11 #        Zagor: Perhaps you're right.  I need to give it more thought.
14.02.58 #        the thing is plugins currently aren't written to be interrupted. it potentially introduces problems.
14.03.21 #        nothing we can't overcome. just things we need to consider.
14.03.23 #       * Febs has another thought on the joystick press.
14.03.23 #        so it is only one buffer that fits the pixel-values, and when wps/browser is called, a redraw is called?
14.03.32 #        tucoz: yes
14.03.41 #        The H300 has a "Navi" button that is the functional equivalent of a joystick press.
14.04.01 #        If we called the joystick press "Navi" it would eliminate differences at least between those two platforms.
14.04.04 #        Febs: I hate it when they label the buttons...
14.04.28 #        but it's not a very logical name, so it would suffer for other platforms
14.04.50 #        I think "navi" sounds like "go into navigation screen", i.e. file browser
14.05.12 #        Which, of course, is what it does in the iriver firmware.
14.05.16 #        ok, hmm. well, then the plugins would have to push their current state, and pop it on when a redraw is called? Or is this an awkward way of doing it?
14.06.16 #       * rasher wonders why he's not seeing a suduko plugin
14.06.28 #        tucoz: that's an issue too. currently the wps/browser is a forward->back switch. introducing a third screen (fourth if you count menus) could be complex
14.06.55 #        rasher: It's technically a viewer, not a plugin.
14.07.05 #        linuxstb__: ah, that'd be why
14.07.30 #        Another need for plugins-that-are-also-viewers, I guess
14.07.49 #        at least once you create a generator
14.08.00 #        but then again, I guess the plugin could just idle. The plugins are given their own memspace. If toggled, then the plugin "freezes" (keeping it's memspace). Upon return, it unfreezes.
14.08.09 #        rasher: I agree
14.08.14 Quit    bluebrother^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14.08.16 Join    bluebrother^ [0] (n=c28@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
14.08.16 Quit    cYmen (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14.08.17 Join    cYmen [0] (n=cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
14.08.19 #        So where do I find something to use it with?
14.08.57 #        Ah, there
14.09.04 #        Just had to rtfs(ource)
14.09.23 #        I also quoted a link  in IRC earlier today.
14.09.25 #        use the source luke ;)
14.09.39 #        tucoz: memory is not the problem, the code path is. currently the entire UI is a single thread, which means functions have to return for earlier screens to run. the plugins don't return until they quit.
14.10.08 #        ah, get it. Then the plugins would have to be given their own thread then.
14.10.34 #        so we'd either have to create some elaborate scheme where each plugin can serialize their state to disk or ram, or we'd have to run plugins in a new thread with all the problems THAT causees
14.11.26 #        the problem with two threads that both draw to the screen should be obvious :-) locking would be required, and the bugs emanating from that are... unfun.
14.12.02 #        linuxstb__: that looks mighty nice
14.12.03 #        part of the elegance of todays system is that plugins don't have to care about the rest of the system. this makes them simply to write.
14.12.15 #        lot's of clicking though :-\
14.12.22 #        Yes, then again. Plugins might not be the most important feature for toggling. Maybe only the 'core'-functions should be given this opportunity. Like, record, browser, wps and so on.
14.12.54 #        Might be a good idea to keep the plugin-interface simple.
14.12.56 #        rasher: Tried the solver yet?
14.12.58 Join    webguest92 [0] (n=d5ee450c@labb.contactor.se)
14.13.00 #        tucoz: right. which we have today already... :-) except record, but I don't quite see the use for that either.
14.13.25 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14.13.29 #        Me neither. But, maybe for playback of the recorded file?
14.13.33 #        in the end, wps/browser toggle is pretty much all you really use.
14.13.42 #        linuxstb__: wow.. that's snap
14.13.43 #        I have almost never used record
14.13.48 #        Isn't the solution to simply have a different LCD buffer for plugins - this could be implemented without having to change the plugins.
14.14.07 #        And lcd_update wouldn't do anything if the plugin didn't have "focus"
14.14.37 #        linuxstb__: I'm going to join the people wanting to use "click to enter edit mode, then use up/down/left/right to change the number, click to exit" though
14.14.57 #        Zagor: then again, the coolness factor
14.15.02 #        rasher: Maybe that's a feature for your builds? :)
14.15.04 #        linuxstb__: you still need to stop plugins. imagine having "mandelbrot" running in the background all the time.
14.15.12 #        hehe
14.15.41 #        stopping specific threads means a more advanced scheduler, and new bugs
14.15.49 #        linuxstb__: I guess I could do that
14.15.55 #        yeah, or switching a game of rockblocks to change to a new mp3 while the game keeps running.. pretty useless if it doesn't stop :p
14.16.46 #        Zagor; I'm saying it's going to be easy.  But from a user's point of view, I think it would be nice.
14.17.21 #        rasher: Ideally I would like to incorporate both methods of navigation - if you can think of a way to do it, preferably without an option.
14.17.28 #        But, I think that a lot of the plugins could be improved. The stop button is simply too powerful these days. Like, pressing stop always exits w/o a confirm dialog. But, that is upto the plugin iguess.
14.17.49 #        linuxstb__: hm.. maybe just use play to enter edit mode?
14.17.53 #        What about using a different key to enter "insert mode", not a joystick press.
14.17.59 #        or long joystick press
14.18.10 #        Long joystick press repeats
14.18.16 #        ah
14.18.18 #        tucoz: yes it is
14.18.40 #        play or record.. hm
14.18.46 #        ok, maybe people like it the way it is
14.20.11 #        someone should implement exposé for rockbox!
14.20.30 #        linuxstb__: record, I think
14.21.45 #        linuxstb__: want me to create a patch?
14.22.43 #        rasher; Please do.
14.23.17 #        Can also you also implement a random Sudoku game generator as well whilst you are there? :)
14.23.33 #        of course, this will confuse the main loop a bit
14.24.34 #        I will try and do it if you want me to - but probably not until the weekend.
14.24.53 #        think I'll have a go
14.25.21 Join    DrMoos [0] (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
14.25.23 #        OK.  The important thing is that when you leave "edit mode", you need to check that the value in that cell is legal.
14.25.37 Quit    Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14.25.49 #        I'll do that
14.26.08 #        The "legality" check is incremental - i.e. it assumes the board starts legal, and then only checks the effects of each change.
14.27.25 Nick    DrMoos is now known as Moos (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
14.27.30 #       * rasher has no idea which button to use for the archos devices
14.29.15 #        linuxstb_: lot's of soduku links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sudoku/links_to_consider
14.30.14 #        yes - my iriver is not dead... hell yeah
14.30.19 #        day saved
14.31.51 Join    hshah [0] (n=hshah@ACC92342.ipt.aol.com)
14.32.12 #        Hm... should I ignore SELECT when in editmode?
14.33.41 #        ehm, that'd be TOGGLE
14.34.55 #       <_nrg_> hi, does rb only play withing a directory or can it also play from dir to dir without playlist?
14.35.14 #        linuxstb_: is the solver bruteforcing, or using graph coloring as suggested by wikipedia?
14.35.59 #        tucoz: I've no idea - I just stole someone else's code without looking at it.
14.36.29 #        hehe
14.37.09 #       * rasher creates a changedigit function to minimize duplication
14.39.45 #        linuxstb__: Why do you "ticks=*rb->current_tick;" when incrementing a digit?
14.40.07 #        I found a forum for soduku programmers, here is a link to a bf-generator. http://www.setbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=204&mforum=sudoku
14.40.55 #        rasher; To slow down the auto-repeat.
14.41.03 Quit    hshah ("Leaving")
14.41.11 #        i.e. I ignore any repeats that happen within 1/3 of a second of the previous one.
14.41.24 #        Ah
14.41.51 #        Ah, I see it now
14.42.47 #        Gotta go now.  back later.
14.43.00 #        bye
14.43.27 Part    tucoz
14.54.24 Nick    QT_ is now known as QT (i=as@madwifi/users/area51)
14.58.28 #       * Zagor eyes the #887081 patch
14.58.30 #        Imho changing focus and starting/stopping threads for plugins is going to be a nightmare
14.58.40 #        am1conn: i agree 100%
14.58.55 #        The grayscale library is interrupt based. How would we handle that?
15.05.44 Quit    am1conn ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15.09.44 Join    am1conn [0] (n=c1af49c9@labb.contactor.se)
15.12.12 #        _nrg_: general settings -> playback -> move to next folder
15.16.05 Quit    am1conn ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15.16.12 #       <_nrg_> markun, its working thx!
15.17.01 #        linuxstb__: I have a patch now.. polishing now
15.20.27 #        linuxstb__: I'm not doing any additional legality check though - only the one when moving the field. 
15.24.33 Join    Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@81.156.157.217)
15.34.28 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
15.36.10 #        linuxstb_: http://rasher.dk/rockbox/sudoku.diff.txt
15.36.46 Join    linuxstb [0] (n=d57b9aa9@labb.contactor.se)
15.37.50 #        linuxstb: http://rasher.dk/rockbox/sudoku.diff.txt
15.39.04 #        rasher: I think the legality check should be done when you leave "edit mode", not when you leave the cell.  But I can have a look at the patch (no time at the moment though)
15.42.16 #        I think we're out of buttons for the ondio
15.42.24 #        Wondering how to handle that
15.42.42 #        right now I just set the BUTTON_ value to something not obtainable on ondio, but that's pretty ugly
15.42.57 #        ondio is a problem child :-)
15.49.25 #        rasher: Have a look at the minesweeper plugin  - I think that defines combinations of keys for the Ondio.  Maybe you will find an idea there.
15.50.17 Quit    linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.52.25 Quit    linuxstb_ (Remote closed the connection)
15.52.48 #        well, I'm thinking we might as well leave the option out, if it's going to require weird key-combos
15.54.40 #        eh...
15.54.52 #        the "known bugs" part of the release notes weren't updated..
15.55.25 Join    tucoz [0] (n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se)
15.55.54 #        interesting to read the old release notes. Note however that the link to v2.4 is missing there
15.56.13 #        http://www.rockbox.org/download/old.html
15.57.32 Join    leftright [0] (n=d4406110@labb.contactor.se)
15.57.55 #        Hi, could i interest anyone in patch  1297992
15.58.20 #        it adds quick access to .cfg files to the quick menu
15.59.07 #        leftright: is that really needed? What quickmenu btw. WPS?
15.59.34 #        should learn to read. wps it is.
16.00.37 #        in my opinion yes, lots of folks have several configs, and navigating to them is tediuos, this way there would be quixk acces to the different configs
16.01.13 #        it's only two buttons to get there through the main menu
16.01.22 #        no its more
16.01.37 #        its at least four clicks
16.01.38 #        Ok, Imho, wps-context menu should only be populated by playback/wps entries
16.01.51 #        okay, four clicks.
16.02.02 #        Still don't warrant putting it where it doesn't belong imho
16.02.53 #        do you use different configs frequently ?
16.02.58 #        No
16.02.59 #        :)
16.03.13 Quit    tucoz ("CGI:IRC")
16.03.14 #        then please dont shoot it dwon because you dont
16.03.21 Join    tucoz [0] (n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se)
16.03.22 #        I'm not
16.03.33 #        I'm shooting it down because the menu entry doesn't belong there
16.03.42 #        and the real location is not *that* far away
16.04.01 #        gues i'll learn how to do my own patches
16.04.31 #        These are not quickmenus by the way.
16.04.36 #        They are *context* menus
16.05.17 #        On the other hand, I think the a-b-menu could be arranged in a different way. Not that I have a clue of what that would be, but I have a feeling it is improvable
16.05.23 #        Don't shoot me for saying this, but IMO, a nice feature of the iPod's UI is the ability to choose the items that appear in the root of the main menu.
16.05.43 #        lots of guys have car cfg's, shuffle-track, cfg's, etc, it would be nice ti have a quick path to this menu
16.06.10 #        ah, that is true, But you could have the configs in a directory and just play them
16.06.11 #        I don't see how "menu, down, right right" is too far away
16.06.22 #        Or am I wrong?
16.06.25 #        are you changing configs every other song?
16.06.53 #        just press the joystick and browse to the config directory
16.07.01 #        yes i change cfg's frequently
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16.07.27 #        leftright: I get your point with the car/etc 
16.07.36 #        I don't.
16.07.46 #        and there is NO quick path to the cfg menu
16.08.00 #        rasher, why not? 
16.08.07 #        If you have a car config, you change to it when you get in the car, is saving 2-3 clicks that important for that?
16.08.16 #        jeez rasher, just create a few different cfg's and sse what a pain it is to access them
16.08.38 #        hehe, not that it should be in the wps-context, but the fact that some people change configs often
16.08.48 Join    einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
16.09.18 #        leftright: I don't have any reason for having different cfgs
16.09.47 Quit    leftright ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16.09.51 Join    leftright [0] (n=d4406110@labb.contactor.se)
16.10.08 #        I guess consistency means more to me than saving 2 clicks once in a while at the cost of cluttering menus with random entries
16.10.08 #        rasher, I have two cfg's which I use frequently
16.10.35 #        leftright: why don't you create a root/configs/ directory, and have the configs there?
16.10.42 #        I play a lot of solitaire, can I interest you in a patch that adds solitaire to the wps context menu?
16.10.46 #        Maybe the solution would be to think about how the main menu is structured - to add faster paths to frequently used functions.
16.10.51 #        and just play them?
16.10.57 #        forget it rasher
16.11.02 #        tucoz: What if the browser is already very deep in the file tree?
16.11.14 #        dont worry about it really
16.11.17 #        rasher: me too ;)
16.11.17 #        I don't see how y ou could get faster access from the main menu than is now
16.11.31 #        They can't *all* be the top choice
16.11.49 #        and "browse .cfg files" is already the top choice in the 2nd level menu
16.12.28 #        linuxstb: so I noticed. The current placement is not too hard too find.
16.13.00 #        I agree that some of the 3rd or 4th level entries might benefit from being moved, but browse cfg files is not one of them
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16.13.39 #        I thought it was buried deep in some a-b-menu, but it wasn't. 
16.13.48 #        rasher: Yes, I was talking more generally, not just the "browse cfgs" option.
16.13.58 #        linuxstb: I agree with that
16.14.27 #        Zagor: around?
16.14.51 #        linuxstb: do you mean like a dynamic menu?
16.15.07 #        I know, automatic restructuring, Microsoft style!
16.15.25 #        or a simple poll on what features are accessed most frequently, and rearrange the menus accordingly?
16.15.33 #        besides the feature which I'm really after, you guys certainly arent interested in anyway, which is to enable Track mode if shuffle is selected
16.15.34 #        rasher: I wouldn't go that far :)
16.15.47 #        as an option ofcourse
16.16.08 #        tucoz: or better yet, create builds that record menu usage in a file
16.16.21 #        shuffle and track mode are a match made in heaven
16.16.45 #        So we've heard.
16.16.50 #        About a million times by now.
16.16.50 #        but I'll use a cfg file as rasher insistes
16.16.53 #        a lot of the "solutions" given to requests are "create a config to change multiple settings at once" - I only have 3 but I do find it irritating navigating to change them
16.16.56 #        It's menu,down,down,down,click,click - 6 actions
16.17.12 #        yes, that could be a good way of gathering data.
16.17.57 #        fogcat, glad you find it irritating as well
16.17.58 #        or, menu, dooooown, click-click, in my eyes it's more like 3½ action
16.18.26 #        But really, adding menu entries at random isn't going to solve this
16.18.35 Quit    [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
16.18.41 #        if you go dowwwwn you're likely to whizz past it and then click back to get to the right place
16.19.09 #        People will be complaining about the next thing that they're missing, and all menus will include all options eventually
16.19.25 #        rasher: That's why the user should be able to config their menus (to some extent)
16.19.48 #        Sure, if they want
16.20.06 #        thats exactly the standard reply, create a config, great, so give us easy acces to the config menu at least
16.20.22 #        As the menus are now, they seem to be sorted quite arbitrarily(?). 
16.20.37 #        leftright: you have as easy access as you're likely to get without user-configuarable menus
16.20.58 #       * leftright sighs
16.21.12 #        tucoz: Yeah, some seem a bit weird
16.21.14 #        leftright: I'm suggesting that a user could (for example) add "browse config files" to the top-level of the main menu.  This would be a one-time action needed by the user.
16.21.45 #        anything to improve and make it more user friendly
16.21.50 #        No.
16.21.52 #        Not anything.
16.21.58 #        the right things.
16.22.00 #        and a way better solution than adding it to wps-context
16.22.23 #        but that I mean I will be gratefull for any improvement made
16.22.34 #        as will others to be sure
16.22.46 #        Depends what it is.
16.23.06 #        I wouldn't be happy about browse cfg being added to the wps-context because it doesn't belong there.
16.23.35 #        rasher as i've said, any improvement is welcome
16.23.36 #        the context menus should give easy access to menu items in their specific _context_
16.23.51 #        and only that, imho
16.23.56 #        Agreed.
16.24.51 #        why is show files in the quick menu? or am I thinking of something different?
16.25.10 #        Quick menu != context menu
16.25.21 #        I'm talking about thelong press of A-B (on iriver)
16.25.29 #        That's the quickmenu.
16.25.36 #        ahhh - sorry terminology
16.25.43 #        so could it go in quick menu?
16.25.45 #        I came to think of something. When I enter a empty directory, the screen is blank. I think an indication that the directory is empty would be nice.
16.25.58 #        the 12 o' clock position is unpopulated in that quick menu
16.26.10 #        I wish it wasn't.
16.26.18 #        that's what I though we wer talking about :-o
16.26.28 #        There's no way in hell anyone will be able to agree what that should do
16.26.31 #        Why is "open with" in the context menu (long joystick press in WPS)
16.27.03 #        I was wondering about that as well
16.27.06 #        well if you make 12 o'clock cahnge configs ... it can do anything ;-)
16.27.18 #        rasher: was that an answer to the empty dir thing?
16.27.36 #        I've now looked at the menus again, and am agreeing that "browse configs" should go in the context menu - "sound settings" appears there, so why not the preset sound settings (i.e. config files) ?
16.27.57 #        tucoz: no, it was to linuxstb 
16.28.03 #        ah, ok
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16.29.47 #        linuxstb: well, it is a way better option than open with..
16.30.16 #        Yes, I think "open with" being there is a bug.  Unless someone can think why it was put there.
16.30.59 #        why have show all files there as well ?
16.31.11 #        its not wps related
16.31.17 #        don't you sometimes feel the urge to open the mp3 your playing with the chip8 viewer?
16.32.02 #        maybe the current menu is there as a proof-of-concept 
16.32.10 #        not really thought through
16.32.18 #        OK - you guys are talking about the context menu now? Right?
16.32.22 #        I would be surprised if "open with" worked with the currently playing track - I'm guessing it uses the file currently selected in the file browser.
16.32.27 #        yes
16.32.56 #        the quick menu is a great idea, the menus though need to be rethought
16.33.10 #        You have less objection to change config file being in the QUICK menu?
16.33.45 #        open with should be remove at least.
16.33.46 #        tucoz: well, vbrfix and favourites make sense to "open with"
16.33.55 #        and splitedit
16.34.40 #        come to think of it, I think I asked this when the context menu was enabled on iriver. And I think I got the same answer then
16.34.49 #        which I settled with
16.35.04 #        as a good reason why to have it there :D
16.36.49 #        leftright:: does your patch currently put it in the context menu?
16.37.30 #        Looking at the code (onplay.c), I think the "open with" applies to the currently selected file in the browser - can someone test?  If so, then I think it's a bug that it's added to that menu.
16.37.31 #        I still don't think that loading config files has any business being in the WPS context menu
16.37.53 #        yes it puts it there, but its not my patch, some kind coder wrote it and added it to the tracker list
16.38.15 #        rasher, and show all files belongs there ?
16.38.24 #        rasher: If you think of the config files as a set of presets for the sound settings (which do appear in that menu), then I think it's logical.
16.38.24 #        linuxstb: I just opened the file with viewer and got a I04
16.38.33 #        rasher is talking about the context menu (i think)
16.38.53 #        teh one you get to with a long A-B press (on iriver) is QUICK menu
16.38.59 #        I am. As witnessed by me saying "WPS context menu"
16.39.00 #        linuxstb: how can I verify what I test?
16.39.12 #        ah yes, my apologies
16.39.32 #        tucoz: Start some music, then browse to a text file in the file browser, then go back to WPS, then select "open with"
16.39.42 #        I use config files to change sound settings and the way music is played back
16.39.56 #        linuxstb: they are not really presets for sound settings though
16.40.04 #        No, it opens the while playing track
16.40.43 #        I got the id3 header, when I opened with the viewer. And the browser was pointing at a textfile
16.42.49 #        fogcat, sorry, that patch adds access to the config files to the Quik menu
16.44.06 Quit    tucoz ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)")
16.44.14 #        leftright, so *I* would say that in that case a number of the objections made vanish?
16.44.31 #        While I'm here.... ocasionally I get distorted playback
16.44.31 #        (not easily repeatable - well at least not yet)
16.44.31 #        It seems to happen when I cahnage to my "car config"
16.44.35 #        While I'm here.... ocasionally I get distorted playback
16.44.35 #        (not easily repeatable - well at least not yet)
16.44.35 #        It seems to happen when I cahnage to my "car config"
16.44.52 #        "car config" has voice menus on but sometimes after switching they don't play
16.44.52 #        and if that happens MP3 playback is distorted with bursts of "Static"
16.44.52 #        Turning off and back on clears the problem
16.44.52 DBUG    Enqueued KICK fogcat
16.44.52 #        Something not initialising correctly? Or over writing something else?
16.46.20 #        I find that sometimes I have to switch it off and on for a config file to be stored and loaded correctly
16.48.32 #        oops - gotta go...  before i do - ta to all you devs for the work and 2.5 release and hack recovery - it IS appreciated
16.48.35 Quit    fogcat ("CGI:IRC")
16.50.40 #        linuxstb: "Open with.." is in the wps context for a reason
16.50.53 #        You can open the currently playing file with a plugin
16.51.12 #        Molto importante for the splitedit plugin
16.52.31 #        amiconn: OK.  I was waiting for someone to say why.
16.52.49 #        amiconn, what are your thoughts to making the config files more accessable ?
16.53.10 #        I don't need that at all, although I do use .cfg files for changing settings
16.53.26 #        I have my .cfg files in the root - quickly accessible
16.54.23 #        I think it would be more accessable in the Quick menu, nut thats just me
16.54.33 #        There's also a reason why the quick menu(s) have no 12 o'clock item, and why they weren't changed on iriver to have one
16.54.45 #        There are loads of things people want in the Quick Menu.
16.55.14 #        The quick menu(s) are of archos recorder origin, and there are 2 of them, F2 and F3 quick menu
16.55.44 #        Left, Down and Right can be detected together with F2 or F3, but not Up
16.55.55 #        That's the explanation for the missing 12 o'clock
16.56.01 #        but the iriver could detect up ?
16.56.49 #        The iriver can't detect A-B and any other button at once except play, but by chance the quick menu still works as expected because of the button priorities in the hardware
16.57.41 #        The quick menu was added for iriver by Christi because she missed it, but it's an interim thing
16.57.53 #        oh please dont remove it
16.58.16 #        There's consensus for a long time that the quick menus are ugly and should be replaced by something better
16.58.59 #        On the archos recorder the plan was to use F3 for context menu (which is now implemented as long-Play, equal long-Select on iriver)
16.59.15 #        F2 was planned to be used for a user-configurable menu
17.00.22 #        Slasheri: are you around?
17.00.57 #        Slasheri: can you confirm that patch #1298779 is right?
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17.30.23 Part    leftright
17.36.09 #        rasher: I've restored a number of wiki image attachments. However, I found a topic is missing completely - WhiteBacklight or whatever it was called
17.37.55 #        amiconn: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/CaseModding/dragon_backlight_crop.jpg that image?
17.38.01 #        Belongs on CaseModding
17.38.35 #        Ah, nm
17.40.00 #        I can't find the recorder uart boot images. They were made by [IDC]Dragon...
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18.14.37 #        i was just wondering...can the iriver accept 24 bit wave signals?
18.14.42 #        i mean, record them?
18.14.50 #        via optical input?
18.15.02 #        I´d like to use it as a ols school 2 Track recorder
18.15.07 #        and not my sequencer
18.18.07 #        rasher: The remote_button_hold() fix introduces a bug...
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18.21.15 #        amiconn: Oh dear, what?
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18.21.39 #        rasher: See http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/firmware/drivers/button.c?annotate=1.91 lines 418 and 457
18.21.58 #        remote_button_hold() is used to check whether the remote button hardware should be read
18.22.16 #        ...which of course shouldn't happen when the remote is unplugged
18.22.45 #        ...because the pins might have arbitrary values
18.22.50 #        Using remote_button_hold() for that sounds weird
18.23.08 #        a remote_plugged() would be sensible?
18.23.09 #        So remote_button_hold() should return true if the remote is unplugged
18.24.04 #        okay, whatever - it seemed sensible.. I don't have time to revert now
18.24.31 #        ...or button_read() changed to not use it, but that would partially jeopardize remote_button_hold(). The UI is another thing...
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18.36.52 Join    Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h36n10c1o285.bredband.skanova.com)
18.39.27 #        Lear: Have you got any metadata.c patches ready?  
18.39.50 #        Yes, I think so. I've been using it some time now... :)
18.40.33 #        I've added ".m4a" support (for ALAC files, not AAC), which I'm ready to commit as well.  This adds a fair amout of code to metadata.c
18.41.01 #        I don't know if we are going to conflict badly with each other.
18.42.14 #        I know it will. :)
18.42.26 #        I had better hurry up and commit first then :)
18.42.52 #        What does your patch do?
18.42.53 #        I've restructured it quite a bit, but if you've only added a new case, and a function or two, then it shouldn't be too bad.
18.43.09 #        Yes - that's all it is.
18.43.35 #        Mainly code and size cleanup. Removes a 4 kB (I think it was) static buffer and cuts binary size by 800+ bytes.
18.43.43 #        Lear: you got anything queued for soonish comiting?
18.43.43 #        Tag parsing is a bit generalized too.
18.45.08 #        Well, the metadata thing first, then I'll look at the wave patch, or possibly that "track gain during shuffle" thing that seems to be in high demand. Darned if I can figure out a good "Replaygain type" name for it though. :)
18.45.32 #        The WAV patch would be nice - more boxes to tick on the SoundCodecs page.
18.46.01 #        How does "track gain during shuffle" work if you're shuffling an album?
18.46.12 #        Yep, should be quite easy to apply, I think, even after my changes... :)
18.46.45 #        Shuffle would "force" track gain, plain and simple. No other way to do it really...
18.47.06 #        Isn't that what the replaygain menu is for?  To choose between the modes?
18.47.14 #        Sorry - I've missed this debate.
18.47.50 #        Yes, but this would be another mode, "Use track gain if shuffle is on, otherwise use album gain".
18.48.55 #        Howabout: Replaygain type = (track,album,auto) where auto is the new option.
18.49.44 #        Auto doesn't say much. Or, it implies using gain even without tags...
18.50.57 #        OK - I'll go find the discussion and read the reasoning.
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18.58.16 #        There, metadata.c committed.
18.58.26 #        Lear: I don't think this has anything to do with shuffling.  IMO, you want "album" mode when your playlist consists of tracks from the same album, and you want "track" mode when your playlist consists of tracks from different albums.
19.00.22 #        Not necessarily. A playlist can contain a number of albums in order too. And besides, without a tag database, how would Rockbox know if a playlist only contains tracks from one album (and even with a tag database that might not always work)
19.01.05 #        linuxstb, preglow: If you are thinking of optimizing Tremor, here is a patch for a TI dsp implementing imdct with ifft: http://www.sandvall.nu/patch
19.01.11 #        The proposed thing is simple to do, and is logical - though not the only logical way to do it.
19.01.28 #        Last I tried there was no response from sandvall.nu. You mean it is up now?
19.02.11 #        Yes, it's up again.
19.02.44 #        I was very surprised the link worked this time, don't even know why I bothered to try.
19.03.13 #        markun: thanks
19.03.17 #        Lear: I'll leave the replaygain issue to others....  I now have some work to do to use your new metadata.c
19.04.16 #        :)
19.04.37 #        Still, I think we need a fast FFT before that patch is really useful...
19.04.39 #        Your diff is completely meaningless :(
19.04.53 #        "My" diff?
19.05.16 #        The changes you committed: http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/metadata.c?r1=1.18&r2=1.19
19.05.46 #        " 889 lines, -800 lines" :)
19.06.42 #        Ah, well, I did touch pretty much everything... :)
19.06.44 #        Lear: freescale has a asm optimized fft, but I don't know what license they use.
19.07.08 #        Me neither, and I've looked a bit for it too. But it is for 1024 points only, I think...
19.07.18 #        preglow: the patch is from the low-mem branch I think.
19.08.46 #        That too...
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19.17.20 #        Hm... not even the wav.c part of the patch applied cleanly...
19.27.34 #        Hm... Should a codec leave most parsing to metadata.c?
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19.43.34 #        markun: the freescale fft is just one size
19.43.42 #        Lear: i think so
19.44.13 #        we're probably just as well off stealing djbfft or something
19.44.58 #        Well, the wav patch should probably move some stuff from the codec then, but I'll leave that for after the initial commit, I think...
19.58.16 #        no biggie
19.59.42 #        eventually we'll split metadata loading out to codecs as well anyway :>
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20.02.50 #        but not to the "main decoding loop" function...
20.02.59 #        no
20.03.03 #        that we wont
20.03.35 #        that's a new one: int16_samples causes a section type conflict
20.04.25 #        Did you try to move some const to iram?
20.04.36 #        s/iram/.idata/
20.05.01 #        That causes such a conflict; see my comment in firmware/drivers/lcd-h100.c
20.05.24 #        Ah, yes, saw some static tables that I thought could be const... Thanks.
20.06.09 #        Two options for now: (1) Don't use iram for these (2) Don't make them const
20.06.23 #        The proper solution would be an additional section .iconst
20.06.58 #        In conjunction with that, I renew my proposal for .ibss
20.07.24 #        Today, all .idata content is part of the binary, even uninitialised data
20.07.34 #        (unlike standard .bss, which is not)
20.08.12 #        .ibss will only save a bit of binary size on archos, but way more on iriver
20.08.16 #        (40-ish KB)
20.09.41 #        Like all stacks?
20.09.51 #        The startup code would have to clear that area instead of copying it from dram
20.10.05 #        Not all stacks, but main/codec/voice codec
20.10.27 #        (for iriver) All others are in dram.
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20.19.00 #        markun: got confirmation that code is working?
20.20.09 Quit    gerd|koks (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20.20.22 #        markun: what downfall is that it requires a set of friggin huge tables
20.20.28 #        s/what/one/
20.26.38 #        Ouch... Flac doesn't work well in the simulator... :)
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20.27.21 #        19.27.34 #        Hm... Should a codec leave most parsing to metadata.c?
20.28.33 #        linuxstb: What about it?
20.29.16 #        I'm not sure :)  I thought I knew what the split should be, but I've realised that I don't.
20.29.35 #        I think at the moment the codecs duplicate a lot of the parsing already done in metadata.c
20.31.11 #        Indirectly yes, as a part of the decoding libraries...
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20.44.28 #        He, the resampler/dsp.c couldn't handle 96 kHz files. ;)
20.47.13 #        Hmm, we're doing something concerning sections that isn't supposed to work according to the gcc docs, but it works...
20.47.40 #        According to gcc docs, it isn't possible to put uninitialised data in specific sections...
20.48.49 #        Hmm, I think that's because we use linker scripts
20.49.06 #        Lear: it can't, the delta calc overflows
20.49.26 #        Lear: we need to make that a 64 bit mul if we want anything above 65khz
20.49.34 #        Lear: that, or decrease the accuracy
20.49.51 #        preglow: buffer size calculations fails too; but it was just a test file I created without thinking too much about it.
20.50.20 #        Hm... Maybe the wav metadata code should check that... And possibly others too?
20.50.28 #        check what?
20.50.41 #        That the frequency is within acceptable limits.
20.50.44 #        why not fix dsp code instead?
20.50.56 #        let the dsp layer decide if it's too much, not the codecs
20.51.21 #        and besides, we _should_ support 96khz files
20.51.46 #        Well, it would be nice if unplayable contents was detected early on...
20.52.23 #        why? so they can be silently ignored or something?
20.52.26 #        And the dsp code do detect it's too much and handles...
20.52.47 #        Why would we need 64 bit ari for 96 kHz support?
20.52.51 #        Yes, something like that, no point in opening and decoding part of a file that is known to not work.
20.53.01 #        96000 fits pefectly into 32 bits
20.53.34 #        delta = dsp->frequency * 65536 / NATIVE_FREQUENCY;
20.53.46 #        upper limit before overflow is 65536
20.54.28 #        Hmm, that doesn't look too well. Roundoff errors...
20.54.34 #        Well, that is easily fixed...
20.54.47 #        (using 64-bit muls that is)
20.54.47 #        what doesn't look well? that particular expression?
20.55.12 #        If we'd use a bresenham-like algorithm, we would avoid the overflow and roundoff errors at the same time...
20.55.25 #        sure, feel free to implement
20.55.36 #        i don't remember entirely how to do it
20.55.56 #        Would it change the actual resampling code too?
20.55.57 #        but bresenham requires a branch per delta, yes?
20.56.03 #        Lear: no, just the delta calc
20.56.20 #        Lear: it would just replace the pos += delta part
20.58.28 #        preglow: A branch should still be faster than a division
20.58.40 #        Hm.. Wav patch looks good, with the limited set of test files I have...
20.59.00 #        amiconn: the delta calc will be faster with bresenham, it's the delta add that'll be slower, and by quite a bit
20.59.01 #        Anyway, I wonder whether it would be worth it.
20.59.21 #        Didn't you intend to implement some better resampling?
20.59.26 #        amiconn: the delta add will be four-five times more expensive than the simple add i do now
20.59.34 #        amiconn: yes, yes i did, but that'll still require this code
20.59.41 #        amiconn: that is, the delta handling
20.59.41 #        Maybe it's worth mentioning that the ipod supports 96KHz playback, and the new Neuros player probably will as well.  So hopefully it won't remain a theoretical problem for long.
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21.00.09 #       * amiconn wonders what 96kHz support should be good for
21.00.15 #        well
21.00.21 #        playing 96khz files, for one
21.00.26 #        Anyway, if it exists and we can, we should support it
21.00.31 #        exactly
21.00.38 #        it shouldn't be a problem for us either
21.00.40 #        I'd never use it though
21.00.43 #        me neither
21.01.10 #        but like i said, it shouldn't be something we'd need to work on, it should just work
21.01.14 #        provided the codecs are fast enough
21.01.35 #        for 96khz you'd need a much better resampler than we have now, though
21.01.37 #        that's for sure
21.01.40 #        so rockbox will be hard pressed
21.05.36 #        Hmm, how is that delta supposed to work? 16.16 fixed point I'd guess?
21.06.00 #        yep
21.06.01 #        exactly
21.06.12 #        and you're right, exactly
21.06.16 #        it has too low precision now
21.06.29 #        bresenham would be very nice for precision, if it can be done fast enough
21.06.33 #        and i think it should
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21.07.00 #        amiconn: i think you yourself noted that it sometimes makes a clicking noise when resampling, that's because of 16 frac bits not being enough
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21.10.05 #        amiconn: still in the bit shift department?
21.13.19 #        preglow: The disadvantage with bresenham is that the phase value wouldn't vary from 0..65536 like now, but from 0..NATIVE_FREQUENCY (upsampling) or 0..frequency (downsampling)
21.13.56 #        However, that shouldn't be much of a problem because we need to normalise to S.31 fixed point format anyway
21.14.14 #        The bitshift would be replaced by a multiplication - not that much slower
21.15.44 #        I mean with the recording issues on archos
21.16.13 #        tucoz: Yes I know. I plan to implement Luke Framewalker (as [IDC]Dragon called it)
21.16.17 #        On the 5249, doesn't the emac do a 32-it mac in 1 cycle?
21.16.38 #        *32-bit
21.16.43 #        I'm a bit undecided what to do first though
21.16.58 #        hehe, Luke Framewalker sounds cool enough. I guess he will use the source for all it is worth.
21.17.00 #        1 cycle throughput
21.17.01 #        not latency
21.17.07 #        tucoz: hehe
21.17.09 #        they're 1 cycle a piece if you string a lot of them together
21.17.46 #        Okay, the docs I read weren't that clear anyway...
21.18.16 #        Lear: no shit
21.18.28 #        He, lots of commits today, and more to come... :)
21.19.49 #        linuxstb: if you are here, the soduku plugin looks really nice on iriver. Do you have any plans to move the toggle-number from joy-press to some other button? It is nice as it is now, except for the loud click from the joystick.
21.20.27 #        Imho the joystick press is the only convenient button on the iriver
21.20.36 #        The side buttons are cumbersome
21.20.43 #        Yes, too bad it emits the click from hell
21.21.55 #        The click doesn't bother me
21.22.45 #        but i gotta go for a wghile
21.22.58 #        not me either, but I am mostly thinking of people around me. i.e. if I am playing soduku in some quite place (school for instance)
21.23.12 #        or on a boring lecture
21.23.15 #        ;)
21.29.17 #        tucoz: use the source: "press SELECT/ON/F2 to increment the number under the cursor." :) That ought to include the on/play button on the iriver...
21.30.08 #        ahh, haven't really looked at the source. Good thing
21.30.16 #        thanks
21.30.37 #        The source is really powerfull
21.32.38 #        have to admit I didn't expect such a good documentation there. I do not usually write such good comments myself
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21.35.13 #        Lear: "#define SUDOKU_BUTTON_TOGGLE BUTTON_SELECT" no || BUTTON_ON there. :(
21.35.27 #        or whatever it is called
21.35.47 #        Ah, well, I only read a comment in the beginning of the file...
21.36.35 #        Wav patch in...
21.37.50 #        Hm.. When setting a patch to resolution: accepted, should it be closed too?
21.38.10 #        #define SUDOKY_BUTTON_TOGGLE2 BUTTON_ON for iriver, then add a second case: for that (#ifdefed properly)
21.38.20 #        ...and you can use both buttons alternatively
21.41.49 #       * amiconn didn't try sudoku yet (on rockbox)
21.41.50 #        ok, thanks. So in a #define one could not simply #define THIS_THING BUTTON_ON || BUTTON_OFF ?
21.41.57 #        linuxstb: Does it work on Ondio?
21.43.18 #        amiconn: the keys are defined for Ondio, so I guess it should work
21.43.45 #        amiconn: Yes, it should work on Ondio, but I haven't tested it.
21.44.02 #        Ok, I'll try
21.44.28 #        I also agree with both tucoz and amiconn - the joystick click is annoying, but it's also the most convenient button.
21.45.04 #        Just allow both buttons, as long as Play isn't needed for other things...
21.45.40 #        I personally play it by holding the joystick down and letting it auto-repeat.  It's slow, but then again, Sudoku is a slow game.
21.46.30 Quit    tomylee (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21.47.02 #        yes it is very convenient, but if it is possible I think amiconns suggestion is good. When used in a silent space with people around you for instance.
21.47.29 #        OK - I'll implement amiconn's suggestion now.
21.47.54 #        Feels like eating crisps at the cinema
21.49.09 #        linuxstb: good, I also like that it is perhaps the first game on the iriver that looks really good.
21.49.43 #        He, sudoku increased the number of h3x0 compiler errors... :p
21.50.43 #        how far is a h3xx away from being released?
21.50.54 #        No bootloader yet...
21.51.18 #        yeah i know..
21.51.27 #        Lear: Yes, it's because Sudoku has fonts optimised for each LCD size - and I haven't implemented the H300's LCD yet.
21.51.56 #        I'm not sure whether to do something quick now to kill the warnings, or just leave it and fix it properly when the H300 is closer.
21.55.40 #        linuxstb: Any .ss files to try?
21.56.16 #        http://angusj.com/sudoku - download "puzzle pack 1" and "puzzle pack 2"
21.56.16 Quit    bbad ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
22.02.44 #        linuxstb: Works on Ondio, and looks really nice :)
22.03.15 #        Only disadvantage is that it's impossible to distinguish numbers you set yourself from fxed ones
22.05.09 Join    XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp46-adsl-198.ath.forthnet.gr)
22.05.18 #        Hi again!
22.05.39 #        Just a quick question about the FM radio....
22.06.03 #        Why only 32 presets? Is there any hardware limitation for it?
22.06.03 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
22.06.26 #        Why no use a special file format that will contain all the Frequencies with the Titles?
22.06.58 #        and then be able to select which one you want, according to your location?
22.07.14 #        XavierGr: we must have a limit somewhere. our memory is not infinite.
22.07.33 #        or you mean "don't load all in memory, search file"?
22.07.55 #        That would be a bad idea...
22.08.45 #        Ok have a limit but I don't think that a file that contains 50-60 stations with names in a saperate file is a problem.
22.08.50 #        Having a choice of presets files (e.g. for different locations) would be useful though.  I can't see anyone needing more than 32 presets in the same location.
22.09.22 #        Lets say that I have a file that contains all the stations for my area. I will just load that file and then select the station I want.
22.09.59 #        But sometimes (especially travelers) can have multiple files that will contain stations for various areas.
22.10.39 #        What do you think? Though I am not of a Radio guy it will be pretty interesting for me to program it.
22.12.59 #        I don't think expanding the list is valuable. loading different lists is much more useful.
22.13.37 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22.14.33 #        It gets my vote.  Should be easy to just add load/save options to the file menu.
22.14.41 #        s/file/radio/
22.14.57 #        hey XavierGr
22.15.34 #        hi muesli.
22.15.49 #        Great then I will see what I can do...
22.16.11 #        linuxstb: Is there a special reason why the inverse numbers are defined separately?
22.16.50 #        (just curious)
22.20.15 Quit    linuxstb_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22.21.06 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
22.21.12 #        linuxstb: Two other remarks: (1) For recorder, F1 is menu by convention, so I'd expect the same in a plugin with a menu (2) The menu combo on Ondio is really tricky to get, as it interferes with normal operation
22.21.41 #        (and involved buttons on different sides of the Ondio)
22.21.46 #        *involves
22.22.27 Quit    linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22.22.51 #        Please go ahead and change them - you know the Archos devices much better than I do.
22.22.56 #        On Ondio, long MODE is usually menu, but that forbids button repeat for the number increment
22.24.36 #        oh amiconn I just finished (solved all previous bugs) with the filescrolling jpeg viewer. Are you interested?
22.24.44 #        Also, there is no particular reason why the inverse numbers needed to be defined - it just seemed simpler that way, and more flexible for different displays.
22.25.18 #        Ah okay. Thinking coloured here? ;)
22.25.23 #        e.g. the iRiver cursor is not a true inverse - it is always white on black, even for highlighting "fixed" numbers.
22.25.31 #        But yes - mainly the colour LCDs are in my mind.
22.25.50 #        "inverse" is probably the wrong word - "selected" would be better.
22.26.56 #        BTW, I've committed the "alternative toggle" idea for the iriver.  So the ON button now also works.
22.27.29 #        alternate toggle?
22.27.48 #        Check the IRC logs from about 1 hour ago.
22.28.12 #        ok
22.28.59 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22.30.22 #        Ah, as I hoped, pluggning the USB did not stop the radio. :)
22.33.42 #       * amiconn has an idea for the Ondio toggle<->menu clash
22.34.06 #        Short Mode alone will toggle once (via _pre/release mechanism)
22.34.34 #        Long Mode will bring up the menu, but only if no other button is pressed before the repeat kicks in
22.34.42 #        (_pre check as well)
22.34.59 #        Mode+Down (+Repeat) will be AltToggle
22.35.18 #        Mode+Down is easy to press with the thumb, the buttons are adjacent...
22.36.01 #        it almost sound as one of the emacs key combos
22.38.55 #        amiconn: I trust you :)  Not sure if there are any other Ondio users here.
22.39.15 #        I have two of them :)
22.39.22 #        One FM and one SP
22.39.41 #        amiconn and am1conn are the Ondio users then...
22.39.47 #        lol
22.40.03 Part    tucoz
22.44.25 Join    tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa107.1.tellas.gr)
22.47.34 #        Meh, sudoku already uses case: fall-through... I trapped on that
22.48.21 #        Now it works as intended...
22.50.00 #        This implementation leaves one unreachable case: value on Ondio, but I'll ignore that
22.50.22 Nick    StrathAFK is now known as Strath (n=mike@dpc674681214.direcpc.com)
22.50.25 #        (SUDOKU_BUTTON_TOGGLE | BUTTON_REPEAT will never happen)
22.51.01 #        That's obviously not a problem though.
22.52.01 #        yep
22.52.26 #        That's because SUDOKU_BUTTON_TOGGLE contains BUTTON_REL, which will never repeat
23.00.20 #        committed
23.02.24 Quit    Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4/undefined]")
23.06.58 #        Anyone fancy creating a PluginSudoku Wiki page?
23.08.51 #        Why I cant find this plugin in my iriver?
23.10.01 #        It's a viewer.
23.10.44 #        ... for ".ss" files.  Download the "advanced puzzle packs" from http://angusj.com/sudoku for some games
23.11.24 #        oh...
23.11.24 #        oh, are the sudoku boards readymade?
23.11.54 #        Also another matter that just came to my mind.
23.11.57 #        i thought it created the boards itself
23.12.33 #        Why do we keep the rockbox.river file in the root? And if it is needed in the root why rockbox accepts its deletion.
23.12.47 #        Zagor: No - they are readymade.  Creating good Sudoku games is not easy - there are humans who make a living from devising the games.
23.12.54 #        Imagine that you are away from home and suddenly you delete it by mistake.
23.13.08 #        BAM no rockbox until you get that file back
23.13.08 #        But yes, a game generator is an obvious enhancement.
23.13.09 #        You won't
23.13.24 #        There's even an "Are you sure?" request
23.13.46 Join    paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
23.14.09 #        I just deleted it and I cant boot no more! :P
23.14.10 #        You wouldn't be able to use rockbox if you'd delete the .rockbox folder, or some crucial components therein (e.g. the codecs)
23.14.32 #        yes but the rockbox folder is not on the supported list.
23.15.11 #        .iriver file is a firmware file and it is shown.
23.15.16 #        I kinda agree with xavier, if nothing else than aestetics. we only have it in the root for historical reasons.
23.15.18 #        I wonder why this should be an issue on iriver.
23.15.47 #        On archos it's the same, ajbrec.ajz (or archos.mod) is in the root and is shown
23.15.56 #        I now it is rather stupid to delete it. I am just saying that maybe someone will make a bad weekend by this.
23.15.57 #        the boot loader could look in both places
23.15.59 #        If you delete it on a non-flashed box - no rockbox
23.16.10 Join    rasher [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk)
23.16.32 #        On archos it has to be in the root, otherwise the archos loader wouldn't find it
23.16.35 #        Have you ever actually heard of anyone actually deleting their rockbox.iriver file though?
23.16.43 #        Or is this just hypothetical?
23.16.56 #        However, on a flashed box I can delete it with no bad effects :P
23.17.08 #        I did once because I was weird. I am happy that I had my PC besides me.
23.17.33 #        XavierGr: No problem then - you know never to do it again :)
23.18.46 #        Tell me that when your kid will delete this little unknown file by accident.
23.18.57 #        Anyway not that it matters I just had a question.
23.22.00 #        ok thats it for today. Good night all!
23.22.25 Quit    XavierGr ()
23.30.35 #       * rasher spots an ALAC codec
23.30.41 #        where does one find alac files?
23.31.13 #        As in, where are they used?
23.31.25 #        rasher: It's not fully committed yet (Lear caused me problems with his metadata.c patches)
23.31.33 #        But you can find them in iTunes.
23.31.37 #        Ah
23.33.46 #        amiconn: should I reverse the remote_hold commit?
23.35.18 #        rasher: does ALAC play realtime?
23.35.53 #        elinenbe: It doesn't play at all - but it's fast enough to play realtime I think
23.36.03 #        Ask linuxstb_ instead
23.36.18 #        rasher: what's holding it back from actually playing?
23.36.18 #        Yes, imho it would be better to have a separate remote_connected() function, and then use that together with remote_button_hold() for the lock display status
23.36.21 #        elinenbe: Yes, ALAC plays faster than realtime - I get about 60%-70% CPU boost.
23.36.50 #        I'm in the process of committing it now.
23.37.42 #        linuxstb_: sounds good.
23.38.52 #        now we just need to play "fairplay" encrypted files (port hymn!)
23.39.28 #        I hope you're not confusing AAC and ALAC.
23.39.50 #        This is not an AAC decoder I'm committing.
23.42.46 #        elinenbe: doesn't hymn permanently decrypt the files? then there's no point running it on rockbox.
23.43.21 #        well, using the hymn code you could build the ability to directly play the m4p files
23.43.31 #        meaning users wouldn't have to bother putting them through hymn manually
23.43.45 #        fuzzie: yes, but we'd open ourselves up for a world of hurt
23.43.53 #        yes, i'm not suggesting it :-)
23.46.19 #        isn't it funny how jhymn, a java application, is available in a windows and a mac version?
23.46.53 #        i think it was fairly well established that java's crossplatformness is mostly a myth, a good while ago
23.48.44 #        fuzzie: I know if I bought any encrypted music files, I would want to decrypt them permanently ASAP.  And I would would to encourage anyone else to do the same.
23.48.53 #        yes, I was a bit confused... I was thinking you could buy alac files from apple...
23.49.01 #        but I guess they don't sell files in HQ.
23.49.26 #        elinenbe: I wish they did - I would probably start shopping there then (assuming hymn worked with them).
23.52.57 #        Can anyone remotely familiar with the playback code check this one-line patch: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1298779&group_id=44306&atid=439120
23.53.32 #        Fixes broken automatic shutdown
23.56.58 #        OK, ALAC is now fully committed.
23.57.03 #        nice
23.57.44 #        linuxstb_: nice.
23.57.45 #        So you can now play .m4a alac files?
23.57.54 #        Or rather, I can.
23.58.54 Quit    tvelocity ("Leaving")