--- Log for 28.09.105 Server: herbert.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 27 days and 17 hours ago 00.00.09 # * tucoz blushes 00.00.58 Quit arkascha (Remote closed the connection) 00.01.39 # Has anyone tried to compile the mp3 encoder for the target? I get an error at line 1471. 00.01.43 # doesn't look like the mp3 encoder has much of a psychoaccoustic model to me 00.02.05 # but then again, it's probably hard pressed doing just what it's doing now 00.02.30 # didn't antonius have it running on target? 00.02.31 # linuxstb: worked for me 00.03.18 # mp3-encoder.c:1471: error: can't find a register in class `ADDR_REGS' while reloading `asm' 00.03.32 # weird 00.06.34 Join Chamois [0] (i=Chamois@AStrasbourg-252-1-11-180.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) 00.06.49 # hi 00.07.00 # hi 00.07.05 # i have a problem with the cache patch from slasheri 00.07.10 # i have a splasj message 00.07.23 # with " no .rockbox" 00.07.36 # and installation incomplete 00.08.13 # anyone has the same problem ? 00.08.26 # whee 00.08.31 # Don't think so 00.08.35 # haven't heard it yet at least 00.08.56 # if i installt the latest daily build all is good 00.09.11 # if i install a version with the dir patch it's ok 00.09.19 # but when i enable teh dir caching and reboot 00.09.29 # i have this Splash message 00.10.09 # hmm 00.10.13 # slasheri it's for you 00.10.51 # Chamois, you have to enable the cache, wait for the splash to disappear, move back to the file browser, and then reboot. 00.10.52 # rasher: I cleaned my build directory, re-ran configure and it compiled fine.... 00.11.10 # i have enable the cache 00.11.15 # ah, ok. 00.11.28 # and the splash doesn't dissapear 00.11.30 # linuxstb: Ah, fun 00.12.05 Join webguest29 [0] (n=3ed6f2c7@labb.contactor.se) 00.12.16 # hi 00.12.32 # hello 00.12.42 # any news regarding the > v2.4 (and 2.5) recorder V1 battery charging bug? 00.12.57 # I think there is no bug 00.13.05 # just incorrect battery percentage during chargin 00.13.12 Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-213-168-119-63.netcologne.de) 00.13.17 # it does not charge my batteries correctly (charges only about 1 hour or so) 00.13.29 # no 00.13.53 # it says "100%" and "trickle charging" which means battery should be charged 00.13.59 # ah 00.14.10 # bit after 1 hour of playing, rockbox shuts down and batteries died 00.14.11 # * rasher knows nothing of the archos 00.14.33 # webguest29: You're willing to test something? (Not atm, as I'm busy I can't prepare a test build right now=? 00.14.42 # sure! 00.14.59 # send it via email? 00.15.03 # I think you're the one who posted in the forum? 00.15.05 # mario.schmidt@mediavillage.de 00.15.08 # yes 00.15.11 # vpn-user 00.15.51 # good night 00.15.54 # There really is a bug in rockbox, since the archos firmware charges correctly 00.15.58 Part tucoz 00.16.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.16.28 # Okay, so I'll prepare a test build which logs battery voltage. What to do with it: Install build, run down batteries, let it charge fully (as far as it gets), then post the data file it creates 00.16.43 # ok 00.16.59 # shall i start with really charged batteries? 00.17.17 # they have 2400mAh so that may take a while... 00.17.52 # The test should start with empty batteries, as the test build will log voltage while charging 00.18.19 # okay 00.18.36 # Hopefully this shows what makes the algorithm think the cells are full when they aren't 00.18.43 # amiconn: could this perhaps be made part of the official source? (not built by default) 00.18.53 # I think using the voltage is just a wrong way to do things 00.19.06 # I *suspected* something like that, although it isn't that bad here 00.19.10 # because newer batteries try to keep their target votlage as long as possible 00.19.31 # (charges for some hours and runs for some hours, but not for the runtime i'd expect from 2500 mAh cells) 00.19.47 # exactly. 00.19.50 # We only have the voltage 00.20.01 # yes. 00.20.12 # ...and perhaps a crude estimate of the current 00.20.15 # maybe we need some calibration 00.20.22 # a calibration file 00.20.46 # I think it would help to measure the voltage with the charging current switched off (briefly) 00.20.49 # new batteries should be calibrated using rockbox 00.21.17 # ...but we need curves from various batteries, stock type as well as high capacity 00.21.24 # that way rockbox would know how to handle this battery type 00.22.19 # No. What i mean: When first time using rockbox, the user should do a full charge cycle with rockbox. rockbox loggs the voltage during that process 00.22.30 # and calibrates itself according to the voltage change. 00.22.41 # That won't help much 00.22.50 # The voltage fluctuates with my batteries, too. but very little 00.23.29 # The charging algo doesn't shut off based on the voltage. Doing so would be rather bad, as end-of-charge voltage is temperature dependent 00.23.48 # ah 00.23.54 # so when does it stop? 00.24.09 # it stops too early for me 00.24.34 # It uses a delta-U approach, but either it is too snsitive, or something else is wrong 00.25.10 # do you know how the archos firmware handles it? 00.25.22 # no 00.25.38 # i wonder why you guys don' t have the same problem 00.33.52 # any ideas yet to read an attached keyboard? 00.34.14 # attached to what? 00.34.27 # to an iriver in my case 00.34.51 # afaik thats not possible because the usb-port can' t act as master 00.35.07 # The usb is connected to a pure slave chip 00.35.09 # hardware 00.35.18 # well 00.35.20 # hrmpf :/ 00.35.23 # not an usb keyboard, sorry, I have that small saitek thing here, attaches toa palm as well 00.35.24 # it might be possible on H3xx though 00.35.27 # you can do a ps2 -> spi bridge 00.35.32 # and connect via remote 00.36.25 # I mean ok, we need a special cable, but the pin layout suggests it is possible 00.36.52 # the only port you can connect a peripheral to is via remote in 00.37.04 # either that or do some fancy stuff with the optical/line in port 00.37.23 # Or line in, perhaps 00.37.32 # Meh, ignore me 00.37.38 # heh 00.37.46 # either way it's possible, but don't expect to see it 00.37.56 # i for one can't possibly imagine what i'd use it for 00.38.08 # renaming files 00.38.15 # right, but hey 00.38.24 # i can make you a ps2->spi bridge if you just pay me 00.38.34 # :-; taking notes 00.38.54 Join webguest81 [0] (n=d5ee4049@labb.contactor.se) 00.41.02 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.43.09 # amiconn, you got my email adress for the test build? 00.44.24 # cause i have to leave for now 00.44.34 # thanks for trying to help me 00.44.38 # yes (there also is an irc log) 00.44.44 # ok 00.44.51 # thanks guys 00.44.55 # good night 00.45.54 Quit webguest29 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 00.58.53 Nick TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[ZZZzzz] (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) 01.01.54 Quit Chamois (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC") 01.05.17 Nick Sucka is now known as actionshrimp (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-209-15.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) 01.05.46 Join bagawk [0] (i=1000@unaffiliated/bagawk) 01.11.05 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.) 01.11.12 Join Seed [0] (i=ben@l192-117-115-168.broadband.actcom.net.il) 01.15.33 Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01.23.49 Quit webguest47 ("CGI:IRC") 01.31.12 Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 01.51.59 Quit preglow ("leaving") 02.16.13 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.42.50 Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]") 02.44.34 Quit bagawk ("Leaving") 02.48.36 Join _arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-213-168-116-141.netcologne.de) 02.53.30 Quit arkascha (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.02.32 Quit _arkascha (Remote closed the connection) 04.05.50 Join QT_ [0] (i=as@madwifi/users/area51) 04.15.28 Join Mirthoneist [0] (n=mirthypo@c-66-177-213-74.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 04.16.17 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.16.24 # Just wanted to show my support for Rockbox on iRiver H3XX by showing up here in the IRC channel! :) 04.16.52 # Good luck to all of who are developing it! 04.16.56 # whee :) 04.17.01 # Hehe ^_^ 04.17.03 Quit QT (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04.35.52 Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-121-239.VIC.netspace.net.au) 04.48.03 Join grimreap [0] (i=grimreap@c-67-165-167-67.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 04.49.38 # can someone explain to me what the bookmark feature actually does on the ondio player? 05.14.35 Quit dpassen1 () 05.29.42 # are you supposed to be able to like go back to the position on the audio using the bookmark? 05.31.42 # I can't figure out how to play the bookmark 05.40.10 Join BirdFish [0] (n=bradbox8@64.108.5.134) 05.40.49 # Just wondering, and really don't mean to bother or annoy anyone. But does Rockbox plan to support the iRiver H10 models? 05.41.00 Quit cYmen ("zZz") 05.43.28 # i don't believe anyone has done any work on them 05.44.02 # they're completely different from h1x0/h3x0. 05.44.25 # Yes :( 05.44.29 # I was foolish enough to buy one. 05.44.43 # Is it bad? 05.44.47 # I didn't know what I was getting into when I went with iRiver until after I bought it. 05.44.57 # It's not (intuitive) 05.45.08 # No Ogg support, no FLAC, no anything 05.45.11 # Oh 05.45.15 # Ahh, I see 05.45.18 # iRiver really messed up when they made this model 05.45.33 # And I've contacted managers and they don't plan to incorporate 05.45.35 # :( 05.45.41 # Fux iRiver for going mainstream 05.45.48 # :\ 05.45.51 # While I'm here 05.46.07 # Yeah, as soon as the H10 came out, I had to choose between H300 or H10 05.46.13 # went with the H340 in the end 05.46.19 # How is evrything going with the h3xx models? Because I might sell my H10 and try to find one of those. 05.47.25 # As far as rockbox, it 05.47.29 # it's coming along I suppose* 05.47.44 # iRiver firmware is fine on it though? 05.47.53 # US firmware, no 05.48.08 # Yeah, I would DEFINITELY go with the Intl version this time as well. 05.48.11 # I'd already decided that 05.48.12 # But you can update to Korean firmware the same way you update US firmware 05.48.18 # yeah 05.48.19 # But I was checking out the new iaudio x5 also 05.48.23 # Has FLAC built into it 05.48.25 # has USB OTG I think with Int'l 05.48.26 # VERY nice 05.48.26 # :D 05.48.50 # Doesn't updating firmware on a not so compliant device slow it down any? 05.48.50 # I didn't really like how the iAudio X5 was setup 05.48.53 # like, the buttons 05.49.01 # It does with the H10 I know at least 05.49.27 # As in like, updating a diff. languaged firmware? 05.49.52 # I'm also pretty pissed that iRiver is letting it's 20 gig H10 users down. All the updates are for the 10 gig users, and all the forums discuss the 10 gig rather than the 20. Basically, iRiver really screwed up this one. 05.49.55 # Heh, sorry about the rant :P 05.50.01 # No 05.50.05 # Just updating hte firmware 05.50.16 # I hear ya :) 05.50.22 # If you go from MTP to UMS on the H10 model, the menus run slower 05.50.28 # Oh 05.50.40 # The menus run the same on different formwares for the H3XX 05.50.45 # That's cool 05.50.46 # firmwares* 05.50.50 # yeah 05.50.57 # It's a neat device 05.51.06 # Only problem I have it with it playing music 05.51.09 # From what I've read about it, I think so too 05.51.29 # What about it playing music? 05.51.35 # Like... 05.51.44 # Well, no Queing, or On the Fly playlists first off 05.51.47 # but... 05.51.57 # Rockbox will solve :D Woot! 05.52.04 # if you're playing a playlist and you turn off your player, you have to restart the playlist 05.52.10 # :/ 05.52.15 # Yeah, this is why I can't wait for Rockbox 05.52.17 # Can you scroll through the playlist? 05.52.31 # Hrm... 05.52.39 # I actually don't even remember o_O 05.52.50 # That would seriously be a bitch if it just read the file from start to finish every time. 05.52.55 # I'd go insane 05.53.02 # I know :D 05.53.04 # :) 05.53.11 # If you simple browse for files... 05.53.24 # I think it does, and since I use random, I had to unrandom, skips a few songsm, then random again to get a different song 05.53.24 # and open a folder for an artist/album 05.53.35 # Will it play all the songs in the folder, or just the one that you select? 05.54.01 # Well, that's another thing that I haven't really figured out... 05.54.02 # Like: 05.54.13 # You can go to Artist, and it will show the albums 05.54.21 # So wait 05.54.25 # but you can't select to play like "All of that artist 05.54.32 # There is a full fledged menu structure? 05.54.38 # you have to go play all the album 05.54.41 # Or do you mean after you create your own? 05.54.52 # Because I was under the impression that the menus were as you laid them out yourself on the hd 05.55.11 # Not really ;\ 05.55.14 # Ah 05.55.16 # Like, you can create folder and stuff 05.55.20 # folderrs* 05.55.32 # I haven't experimented really with doing that 05.55.38 # I see 05.55.39 # I guess you can sort the music in folders 05.55.42 # and play my folders 05.55.57 # That's how I play all my songs (I put all my songs in 1 folder, instead of using a playlist) 05.56.02 # Does it create it's menu from the id3 tags? 05.56.03 # So yeah, you can customize it 05.56.15 # Well, you can turn "DB function" on 05.56.22 # Gotcha 05.56.25 # Which let's you choose by Genre, artist, etc 05.56.32 # so I guess that works with ID3 tags 05.56.48 # So many things to consider 05.57.16 # I'm going to punch the bastard at Best Buy that told me that the H10 had ogg support that could be downloaded 05.57.24 # :P 05.57.31 # lol 05.57.43 # Best Buy is usually good with returns 05.57.50 # but then again, it's not like you can exchange it 05.57.50 # It's been far too long 05.57.53 # :\ 05.57.55 # oh 05.57.55 # yeah 05.58.13 # I thought maybe since iRiver was slacking in the 20Gig compartment, that it just wasn't out yet :o 05.58.13 # Hehe 05.58.15 # Big mistake ;) 05.58.24 # :( 05.58.34 # Yeah, my friend is highly considering getting the H10 05.58.35 # Oh well, live and learn :D 05.58.42 # I told him I'd personally get the H3XX 05.58.45 # Tell him to highly consider not doing it 05.58.53 # It'd be the worst decision he could make 05.59.01 # But then again, he just really wants to play music, and I thought maybe the H10 would be better for him 05.59.06 # hehe 05.59.14 # He just has Mp3s 05.59.19 # so like, I don't know... 05.59.19 # If he likes mp3s and wma's it's cool I guess 05.59.24 # yeah 05.59.33 # the H3XX is tricky to navigate too 05.59.36 # And if he's not exactly computer literate, mpt firmware would be good for him 05.59.52 # He's computer litterate 05.59.58 # he wants drag and drop 06.00.05 # You can do that 06.00.11 # In either MTP or UMS mode 06.00.22 # UMS is really the way to go 06.00.23 # Oh, that's cool :) 06.00.38 # MTP, don't you need Windows Media Player to drag and drop? 06.01.02 # But if he wants to fully convert the device to UMS, he absolutely needs to get the 5/6 gig version, because 20 gig version doesn't have a UMS firmware that can be loaded yet. 06.01.37 # But with 20 gig, I reset > connect to computer > then power on the device while holding the select key, and it boots UMS for that period of time 06.01.38 # oh, I seeee 06.01.40 # Then it goes back to mtp 06.01.48 # With UMS, he needs to get EasyH10 though 06.01.54 # And that'll build his database for him 06.02.08 # that all sounds very horrible 06.02.09 # Otherwise, he'd better have a sweet browser structure 06.02.16 # It is very horrible fuzzie 06.02.22 # That's why I'm ranting 06.02.22 # :P 06.02.32 # I'm pissed with iRiver right now 06.02.54 # Almost to the point of getting an iPoo :/ 06.03.04 # And I hate those damn "in" devices 06.03.05 # :o! 06.03.07 # lol 06.03.08 # yeah 06.04.19 # LOL, can you tell Calculus homework was a bitch tonight? 06.04.25 # :P 06.04.45 # lolz 06.04.55 # 50+ problems a night is a little overkill ;) 06.05.11 # I tire of doing the same thing repetatively 06.05.12 # gheesh 06.05.19 # I hear ya 06.05.30 # Although, Im only in Precalc 06.05.35 # :p 06.05.39 # Junior in highschool? 06.05.48 # Sophmore in College :o 06.05.50 # lol 06.05.52 # :o 06.05.59 # I procrastinated with taking it 06.06.00 # Senior in highschool :*) 06.06.10 # :o 06.06.22 # I'm big into computers though 06.06.32 # I am, kinda 06.06.35 # So I guess it fits with my goals in life 06.06.39 # You might not need Calc 06.06.46 # I wouldn't take it if I didn't need it 06.06.50 # For damn sure 06.06.55 # I hope I dont need it :p 06.06.58 # :P 06.07.02 # Business Major? 06.08.00 # That's what Im under now 06.08.11 # Cause my damn Accounting teacher put me as it 06.08.20 # But, I want to do something with computers 06.08.21 # So you don't like it I take? 06.08.26 # That's cool 06.08.28 # Correct :) 06.08.29 # lol 06.08.35 # Hardware/Software? 06.08.44 # I wanted to be a programmer :( 06.08.47 # hehe 06.08.47 # :D 06.09.02 # Taking Fundamental Class this term 06.09.03 # After I took Programming 1, they cancelled all Programming 2 cvlasses, so that kinda failed 06.09.05 # ;\ 06.09.12 # That sucks 06.09.15 # yeahz 06.09.19 # Change colleges man 06.09.22 # I definitely would 06.09.34 # I would if I could :) 06.09.39 # :) 06.09.43 # I have a fully paid scholarship, with a catch 06.09.51 # What's that? 06.09.59 # Have to do 2 years of community college there, then I can go anywhere in Florida 06.10.06 # Wow 06.10.10 # for my las 2 years 06.10.12 # yeah 06.10.12 # How did you manage that? 06.10.21 # Im not sure o_O 06.10.29 # o_0 06.10.30 # I guess I did good in high school 06.10.38 # Didn't get into trouble, 3.5GPA 06.10.42 # I'm really hoping to get a full ride somewhere 06.10.51 # Yeah it's great 06.10.57 # 4th in rank of 200+ kids 06.10.59 # theres a lot of opportunities 06.11.04 # nice! 06.11.05 # 4.5 GPA (I think) 06.11.11 # wow :o! 06.11.25 # I was #1 for my first 2 1/2 years 06.11.34 # Gheesh 06.11.34 # Then I got into girls and shit went down 06.11.38 # :'( 06.11.40 # Fux girls 06.11.43 # :P 06.11.50 # I need to get my head outta my @ss 06.11.52 # lol! 06.11.54 # I hear ya 06.11.58 # Haha :D 06.12.33 # So do you do any web designing or anything? 06.13.11 # I used to a little bit 06.13.18 # I'm not graphically artistic 06.13.30 # so although I liked doing that stuff, it just never looked good 06.13.32 # It's cool. I'm about half/half really 06.13.43 # You do your own websites? 06.13.45 # I like to keep my stuff simplistic 06.13.49 # Yep 06.13.49 # Hehe 06.13.51 # That's cool 06.14.00 # The simplistic pages are always the best anyways 06.14.03 # I don't have my current site hosted right now though :/ 06.14.04 # You use HTML? 06.14.08 # xhtml 06.14.10 # ohz 06.14.12 # 1.0 strict 06.14.16 # oh my :o 06.14.20 # Wish it was xml 06.14.20 # :( 06.14.26 # But that's beyond me for now 06.14.31 # Hehe 06.14.38 # I've never dealt with XHTML 06.14.47 # I definitely don't have the time to research it, and I've been told by my programming instructor that it's not exactly easy to pick up. 06.14.56 # It's not much different from html 06.15.00 # Oh 06.15.15 # Really, just keep tags in lower case, and instead of doing a
it's not
06.15.17 # Stuff like that 06.15.22 # Minor changes 06.15.28 # Ah,, I see 06.15.32 # Yeah, I went from HTML, to Frontpage ( :( ) to Dreamweaver 06.15.40 # Meh 06.15.41 # might get back to HTML again 06.15.45 # BirdFish: assuming your html was valid in the first place.. 06.16.13 # fuzzie: yes, a lot is assumed. I was just pointing out basics... 06.16.20 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.16.30 # Mirthoneist: Frontpage and Dreamweaver both do HTML, just more visually 06.16.40 # Yeah 06.16.43 # Your best bet is to do everything by hand (with a text editor) 06.16.45 # :D 06.16.47 # Totally leet 06.16.51 # Yeah, that's what I used to do 06.16.53 # lol 06.17.12 # I thought I could be lazy and do it in a WYSIWYG program 06.17.19 # I just happen to use one now that highlights syntax and auto indents lines for me so that I can keep things cleaner easier 06.17.21 # but, they just aren't the same 06.17.27 # Definitely not 06.17.29 # Ah, that's cool 06.17.30 # You lose control 06.17.34 # Yeah 06.18.18 # And then you forget the tags and when you go to impliment CSS into ASP.NET, you can't (heh, my father) 06.18.28 # lol 06.18.28 # :D 06.19.06 # Your dad is a web designer too? 06.19.08 # Eventually, probably next summer I want to get back into PHP 06.19.12 # Hell NO! 06.19.16 # oh, lol 06.19.22 # He's a self-taught programmer 06.19.22 Quit Maxime` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06.19.28 # That writes software out of the house 06.19.29 # oh my :o 06.19.36 # Very neat :) 06.19.37 Join Maxime` [0] (n=flemmard@82.229.205.156) 06.19.37 # (retired police captain) 06.19.59 # Damn, I wish my dad could do that 06.20.07 # He can barely find "My Computer" 06.20.09 # :\ 06.20.25 # But he doesn't feel the need to learn html syntax or anything and thus he has a hellova time trying to impliment CSS into anything (since he's porting his program to the web) 06.20.41 # Oh, I see 06.20.51 # A lot of the database stuff he has a guy in florida do 06.21.06 # So, I guess he kind of learns as he goes with it 06.21.16 # Oh, that's neat 06.21.17 # He's by no means a professional programming :P 06.21.26 # lol ^_^ 06.21.34 # But he is the new techie at one of the local law firms 06.21.35 # woot woot 06.21.36 # LOL 06.21.48 # Haha, that's sweet 06.21.54 # Hehe, yeah 06.21.55 # That's a job I think I'd enjoy 06.22.26 # Yeah, it's kind of cool. Pain in the butt sometimes (I work on the puters with him occassionally) 06.22.34 # But check it out before you definitely decide anything 06.22.43 # Yeah 06.22.46 # I don't think it pays as nicely as one might hope :( 06.22.50 # I'll have to try a lot of different things 06.22.59 # Ah, I don't care much about money 06.23.00 # Get into something that deals with unix/linux systems 06.23.04 # as long as I get a job I enjoy 06.23.06 # Yeah 06.23.08 # :) 06.23.14 # I've never dealt with linux :( 06.23.32 # That's where most of the server techie stuff comes from 06.23.41 # It's cool 06.23.43 # Oh 06.23.54 # If you like working through a command line (like me) you'll love it 06.24.03 # But then I seem to like doing things the hard way I guess 06.24.04 # hehe ^_^ 06.24.09 # lol 06.24.19 # for instance, sometimes I telnet to IRC :P 06.24.21 # LOL 06.24.29 # lol! 06.25.47 # Well, Im gonna head out to bed 06.25.55 # Maybe I'll see ya around BirdFish 06.25.57 # :) I was just about to say the same thing 06.26.01 # You'll definitely see me around 06.26.02 # :) 06.26.02 # lol :D 06.26.05 # Later bud 06.26.07 # Hehe, okiez 06.26.09 # G'Night 06.26.12 # night 06.26.20 Quit Mirthoneist () 06.54.15 Quit rasher (Remote closed the connection) 06.58.13 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD6985.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.03.21 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07.03.47 Join elinenbe [0] (i=elinenbe@207-237-225-9.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 07.07.24 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se) 07.11.31 Join Lynx_ [0] (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 07.14.57 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=paulthen@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com) 07.16.22 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.16.23 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@p54BD6985.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.28.07 Quit Lynx_awy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.28.08 Nick Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 07.35.53 # morning 07.40.29 # morning 07.40.40 # i don't like the reports we're getting about the v1 charging 07.42.02 # Me neither 07.42.22 # The charging is definitely better than what we had before, but isn't perfect 07.42.32 # I suspected that we might get such reports 07.42.44 # I have slight problems myself 07.43.04 # Not as bad as in the reports, but it seems my rec v1 doesn 07.43.17 # i haven't used my rec20 much since i got my iriver, but i do get the sense that it doesn't charge them as much as the old algorithm 07.43.24 # 't achieve the runtime that should be possible with 2500 mAh cells 07.43.56 # The cells certainly aren't worn out 07.44.33 # Your comments regarding Ondio & resume are slightly off. 07.45.05 # We use BUTTON_MENU in the code, but the "official" button name used elsewhere is MODE 07.45.20 # LinusN: hi :) what do you think about the dircache: http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache.diff 07.45.21 # saw that 07.46.53 # (i know there are two possible small bugs at the moment i will fix before the commit, if the code in other way looks good) 07.48.03 # Slasheri: a dircache file??? 07.48.39 # i thought we were discussing a dynamic cache? 07.51.02 # of course it's dynamic, but that file is for fast bootup without rebuilding the cache (that should be ok because the file tree browser is the only place that is using the cache and even if cache would be out-of-date there should be no risk of data corruption/lost) 07.51.13 # and that is an option 07.51.30 # what's wrong with having it purely dynamic? 07.51.43 # if user know he is going to use usb bootloader mode, the he should not skip the rebuilding at boot 07.51.56 # i certainly don't want to answer thousand of "it won't find my files" questions in the forums 07.51.58 # LinusN: and that file is also using to calculate the space needed for the cache 07.52.06 # Hmm.. 07.53.18 # and now long does it take to scan the drive when leaving usb mode? 07.53.33 # s/now/how/ 07.53.49 # that depends how much there are files but that scan is transparent to user 07.54.07 # so user doesn't have to wait 07.59.22 Join koniu_ [0] (n=koniu@host-ip194-145.crowley.pl) 07.59.55 # it doesn't seem to handle usb mode while building the cache 08.00.48 # that's possible 08.01.05 # do you think it should be fixed? 08.01.12 # of course 08.01.15 # ok :) 08.01.36 # if it takes long time to rebuild, it can be frustrating when it doesn't enter usb mode again 08.01.54 # frankly, i don't like this concept at all, but that's me 08.01.59 # ah, yes 08.02.20 # how does it reserve cache space? 08.02.40 # i understand that, but i think some people may like it 08.03.15 # LinusN: when it does the first non-transparent cache build, it allocates the space used for cache + 64 KiB for reserve space 08.03.30 # and if it runs out of space? 08.03.47 # then the cache is disabled 08.03.53 # until when? 08.03.58 # and it will be rebuild on next boot 08.04.39 # ok, so it's all or nothing 08.04.54 # basically yes 08.05.22 # \o/ 08.05.34 # hmm. in fact it might be possible to use the cache only partially but that adds more complexity to the caching code 08.06.37 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) 08.07.32 # ok, so how big will the cache buffer be initially, when there is no cache file? 08.08.30 # that depends entirely about the number of files and filename length. On my player (with thousands of files, pretty full player) it's around 400 KiB 08.09.11 # no, i mean when calling dircache_build() for the very first time 08.10.07 # Hmm? It will build the cache and the buffer size really depends how much there are files :) 08.10.22 # so it can' 08.10.23 # the first build is non-transparent 08.10.30 # ok, so no resume 08.10.32 # so it doesn't have to guess any buffer size 08.11.37 # and it will also disable it if the cache grows > DIRCACHE_RESERVE? 08.11.48 # yes of course 08.12.57 # it cannot exceed the reserved space or the system would crash or something else like that 08.14.49 # Very cool idea 08.16.21 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.19.55 # Slasheri: i see a lot of situations where dircache_new_entry(9 would fail 08.20.40 # but you don't handle it in for example dircache_mkdir() 08.20.57 # Hmm, that is handled by the dircache_new_entry() itself 08.21.08 # it will disable the cache: dircache_initialized = false 08.21.13 # ok 08.22.41 # what happens if i create a dir when dircache_do_rebuild() is running? 08.23.46 # that's not a good idea. There is a chance that it will be missing from the cache when the rebuild is complete 08.23.59 # Hmm.. But i think it's possible to even fix that 08.24.02 # so the user will have to wait until the cache is rebuilt 08.24.12 # currently yes 08.24.16 # how does he know that it is rebuilt? 08.24.35 # i guess the same goes for files too? 08.24.45 # when the disk activity stops.. but that's a good point, i will try to fix it 08.24.48 # yes 08.25.29 # also, will the cache file itself end up in the cache on the first rebuild? 08.25.52 # it's just very rare that first thing user would do is to start creating files after booting up the unit. But indeed that is possible 08.26.03 # LinusN: no 08.26.16 # rare or not, it is a source of error 08.26.21 # yes 08.26.31 # take recording for example 08.26.38 # leave usb and start recording 08.27.07 # it will create both files and directories 08.27.18 # and suck cpu power from the recording thread 08.27.44 # true.. i will fix that soon 08.28.18 # my point is, we will probably find more issues like this 08.28.28 # (it should be even quite easy, just using semaphores to lock and check for duplicate entries) 08.28.32 # hmm.. 08.28.57 # it's possible 08.29.14 # i don't have a good solution though 08.29.31 # if you want the entire tree in ram, this is where you end up 08.29.46 # or take the easy way out like iriver did 08.29.57 # annoying the users in the process 08.30.04 # but eventually all the problems will be solved 08.30.05 # * LinusN gets some coffee 08.30.19 # not all 08.30.22 # heh, but my entire point was i don't want to annoy users 08.30.22 # :) 08.30.33 # Another point: What happens if I delete the cache file at runtime? 08.30.36 # i mean that iriver annoys users 08.30.45 # amiconn: nothing i guess 08.31.07 # yep, that cache file is not needed at runtime 08.31.17 # there is one problem that won't be solved, and that's the booot loader usb mode 08.32.27 # true.. then we just have to give some control to the user if he/she really wants to skip the cache rebuilding at boot 08.33.18 # and i think that is acceptable if the user know that he is not going to use the bootloader usb mode 08.33.28 # Related: What happens if writing the cache file fails because of disk full? 08.33.30 # this is where the forums will get swamped with problem reports 08.33.50 # or another possible way would be to delete the cache file after leaving bootloader usb mode (but that requires modification to the bootloader) 08.33.57 Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]") 08.35.23 # amiconn: i think the only thing that will happen is that the cache will have to be rebuilt the next boot 08.35.33 # the cache file is only saved at shutdown 08.36.01 # what're you caching? the directory map? 08.36.19 # ashridah: yes, the directory tree 08.36.34 # I wonder why there is a file at all, if the cache rebuild can be done transparently 08.36.55 # amiconn: it isn't transparent at boot 08.37.17 # Yes, but it can be made transparent, I think 08.37.20 # and it makes the initial caching faster 08.37.22 # (it's if the cache file exist and user has selected not to skip the rebuild) 08.37.34 # then the file header is only used for allocating the required space 08.37.38 # ...and the needed RAM size could be stored in the settings structure 08.38.00 # amiconn: no, that is saved on the cache file header 08.38.25 # (without connecting it to .cfg files - just the config sector entry the same way as the battery runtime data is stored) 08.38.46 # Slasheri: Yes I know, I say it *could* be stored there, for a fully dynamic cache 08.38.55 # ..that doesn't use a file 08.38.58 # amiconn: ah, yes 08.39.08 # :) 08.39.15 # i think always rebuilding it is a waste of battery 08.39.58 # it is.. but currently that is the only possible way if user uses the usb bootloader mode often 08.40.00 # ...but not doing it creates inconsistencies, so we have no choice I'd think 08.40.35 # my disk contents are mostly unaltered 08.40.45 # There's one small advantage of caching I can see for myself, and that's recording from the microphone 08.40.45 # when i use it to play music 08.41.09 # LinusN: Yes, but rockbox can never know what happened between 2 rockbox runs 08.41.12 # so scanning in the background every time i boot is a waste of battery, then the cache file is much better 08.41.20 # (bootloader USB mode, iriver firmware... 08.41.25 # amiconn: i know 08.42.11 # We do have delayed file open for recording, so recording from mic is undisturbed by disk activity until the buffer is filled the first time. 08.42.13 # the cache file is basically unnecessary, but is a bettery saver 08.42.57 # However, that currently doesn't help on iriver because the recording file name is created at start of recording, and for non-RTC units it accesses the directory 08.43.07 # ...to find the next free numbered filename 08.43.34 # That's a non-issue on Ondio because disk access creates no noise, but it will be an issue on H1x0 08.44.23 # LinusN: I know, but it's also a source of inconsistency. If we could trust the FAT32 modification time stamp... but we can't 08.45.16 # i think the cache file inconsistency will be a huge source of error 08.45.22 # and confusion 08.45.44 # i mean, people tend to ignore simple instructions, and they don't read the manual 08.45.46 # I agree, as it will also happen with USB mode 08.45.49 Part koniu_ 08.46.04 # amiconn: the cache is always rebuilt after Rockbox usb mode 08.46.12 # but not after bootloader usb 08.47.26 # Yes, and that willl lead to problems 08.48.31 # I thought about a (perhaps) simpler, but less resource-hungry (and less complete) caching system 08.48.54 # It would never cache beforehand or across reboots, and only work for the browser 08.49.38 # It would simply cache as many dirs in the browser's dir buffer as fit in there. 08.50.12 # If a dir is opened that doesn't fit, it would start throwing away old dirs (lru) 08.50.22 # fragmentation? 08.50.30 # None. 08.50.46 # It would move all entries together after removing enough 08.50.53 # (memmove) 08.52.00 # That also greatly simplifies lru - the first entry is always the oldest 08.52.44 # ok, so increasing the dir buffer size will automatically increase the cache size 08.53.38 # yup 08.53.57 # Many small dirs would benefit from one large dir the user has :) 08.53.59 # that method will force more reloads than slasheris approach 08.54.30 # Yes, but it still saves reloads compared to no caching at all 08.54.42 # ...and without additional cache RAM 08.55.43 # ...and it *might* even save battery as it only loads the dirs the user is actually browsing 08.56.07 # not necessarily 08.56.21 # amiconn: but how can it know before hand what dirs user is going to browse and without annoying the user? :) 08.56.23 # The current code loads the same dir over and over, and Slasheri's full cache system requires rebuilds 08.56.44 # amiconn: you mean a dir is only cached when visited? 08.56.52 # yes 08.57.07 # i don't think that is much of a benefit 08.57.17 # Slasheri: We can't for a not-yet-visited dir 08.57.28 # LinusN: why? 08.57.36 # when i look for a file to play, i rarely re-visit the dirs 08.57.45 # amiconn: Hmm, yes.. And that was the entire idea of the caching 08.58.23 # LinusN: Don't you enter a dir, realise that it isn't what you want, then back out sometimes? 08.58.43 # yes, we would save the backout reload 08.58.51 Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 08.58.53 # Slasheri: My suggestion is somewhat in-between no caching at all and a full cache 08.58.54 # but it will always load the next dir i enter 08.59.02 # yes 08.59.08 # so there will be a lot of spinups 08.59.25 # even more, as the disk will spin down as i enter the cached parent dir 08.59.42 # so the browsing experience might even be more painful 09.00.38 Quit Vladoman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.00.46 # Depends on how long a timeout you have set 09.00.58 # ...and how fast you are browsing 09.01.14 Join Vladoman [0] (n=Vladoman@p54A7FC2D.dip.t-dialin.net) 09.01.27 # amiconn: of course 09.01.47 # For me, it sometimes even happens that the disk spins down before I back out, and has to spin up again for just reading the dir I already visited 09.01.55 # but in general, i don't think a "lazy" cache will add much to the browsing experience 09.02.01 # Perhaps I should set a higher spindown timeout... 09.02.48 # LinusN: Maybe. I already said it's somewhat in-between, but it doesn't require additional RAM 09.03.04 # ...so it could work on archos 09.03.05 # it's certainly more KISS 09.03.36 # but not nearly as effective as slasheris solution 09.04.16 # ...or if I don't want to enable full caching because I don't want to set aside the additional RAM 09.04.25 Join B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se) 09.04.38 # Slasheri: Is there a way to see how much RAM the cache takes? (debug menu?) 09.05.32 Quit Rori () 09.07.14 # amiconn: currently it puts that information through logf only but i think a debug menu entry would be a good 09.07.23 # With such a lazy cache, it should be possible to back out up to the root from a deeply nested dir without a reload, provided the dir buffer is large enough 09.07.30 # it could then show also the reserved buffer used 09.07.36 # yes 09.14.31 # Hmm. 09.14.40 Nick Lynx_awy is now known as Lynx_ (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 09.17.51 # Slasheri: On FAT32 you could perhaps check fsinfo on boot. If either freecount or nextfree have changed (I know windows is lazy), the disk was changed and a rebuild is needed 09.22.20 # amiconn: oh, that sounds good 09.23.16 # is it possible that windows doesn't update those entries even if i add some files? 09.24.40 # I'd guess so 09.31.26 # not only possible, it's standard procedure 09.31.48 # windows is known to not update fsinfo 09.36.57 Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp45-adsl-28.ath.forthnet.gr) 10.13.32 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) 10.13.53 # #^#$5~#$ 10.14.01 # * HCl gahs at internet explorer 10.14.19 # it had the nerve to save my creditcard number in its autocomplete >.< 10.14.44 # and how was it supposed to know it was a credit card number? 10.16.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.18.19 # what autocomplete your credit number? 10.18.41 # clear the cache 10.18.51 # LinusN: windows doesn't even update fsinfo.nextfree? 10.19.12 # Oh Linus is here. 10.19.34 # Linus I am just programming the radio for multiple preset file support 10.20.54 # I have a question though. How rockbox knows which is the latest WPS that the user has selected (same for font I guess)? 10.21.25 # Because I want to do the same with the fmr files. I want to remember the latest opened. 10.22.28 # amiconn: smetimes, sometimes not. 10.23.40 # Zagor: Depending on the moon phase or somesuch? ;) 10.23.53 # No, XP does not update FSINFO any more 10.24.00 # 98 and ME did 10.24.06 # 2000 i'm not sure 10.24.23 # oh, hi guys 10.25.05 # :-) 10.26.17 # amiconn: yeah, probably. however nextfree is defined as hint where to start searching. it doesn't actually need to point to the next free block. freecount, however, is a blatant spec violation. 10.26.25 # XavierGr: check settings.c 10.26.37 # well, they made it, they break it :-) 10.26.47 # yup 10.28.39 # Rockbox code is so beautifully written. Functions like kbd_input and create_numbered_filename are sweet!!! 10.29.21 # Hmm so is it alright to use another one space for a fmr file? 10.29.54 # i guess so, if there's room for it 10.31.33 # plenty! 10.31.48 # LinusN: Speaking about it: Is there any reason why the config block (on disk uses only half of the sector? 10.32.27 # A sector is 512 bytes, however, config block is only defined up to 0xFF 10.32.31 # hmm not so plenty my entry can fit. but thats it. 10.32.40 # XavierGr: It can, easily 10.32.56 # you can make it larger? 10.33.36 # if someone wants to put another one then he should have a problem/ 10.34.47 # I got confused. 10.35.12 # up to know it is used up to f4. 10.35.38 # but f4 + 20(dec) = 108(hex) 10.36.07 # so it cant fit right? 10.36.58 # XavierGr: There are two options 10.37.21 # (1) You can extend it at the end should be possible, read my remark at 10:32:37 10.37.55 # (2) You can put it before the WPS file name, at 0xB8 - 20 = 0xA4 10.38.25 # what do you prefer? 10.38.38 # The current HD bit table only uses 31 bytes atm (worst case, so the end address of that is 0x2C + 31 = 0x4B 10.38.47 # Plenty of room before 0xA4... 10.39.55 # ok then I should do the 2nd. Thanks/ 10.40.49 # Zagor: I wonder how windows derives the free disk space without using freecount. I'd guess they scan the whole FAT. 10.41.15 # Yes, they scan it at each connection, that's why it is so slow wiht usb 1.1 10.41.31 # for the new drive to come up 10.42.14 # Sounds like a windows-like method ;/ 10.42.47 # Yes, if you see the actual USB MSC transactions you wonder who wrote the driver 10.43.01 # They ask for disk capacity about 5 times 10.43.09 # jsut to make sure, I guess :-) 10.43.26 # Perhaps someone connects a dynamical disk? ;) 10.43.47 # amiconn: in the days of yore, the entire path to the resume dir/playlist was stored in the config sector 10.43.52 # Yeah, or the physical connection is not yet burned in ... 10.44.56 # I wonder what happens if someone constructs a 'mass storage device' that deliberately sends different answers for each request... 10.45.28 Join tucoz [0] (n=martin@hornved.ii.uib.no) 10.45.47 # amiconn: and Jörg mistakenly adjusted the comment so that it seemed that the max is 0xff 10.46.11 # LinusN, hi, I read somewhere that you might be interested in a change in the fm-preset format. 10.46.15 # when he revamped the bit allocation scheme for the settings 10.46.33 # amiconn: I could try that on a JBM020 :-) 10.46.55 # tucoz: yes and no 10.47.36 # One question though. If the format were like 95.6:descr, would we have to handle the old format as well? 10.48.00 # probably not 10.48.54 # When fiddling with FM anyway, it might make sense to allow 0.05 MHz steps 10.48.59 # yes 10.49.00 # Some people asked for that 10.49.22 # I think so too, I saw the stepsize is set to 0.1 Mhz now 10.49.44 # ..although in Germany there are no xx.x5 frequencies used by terrestrial stations 10.49.49 # But I do not know the sensitivity of the fm-chips in the different players. 10.50.13 # ...only broadband cable uses that 10.50.23 # why the code utilizes the "lets say 9100000" format for the station 91.0? 10.50.29 # Hz 10.51.02 # 91.0 Mhz = 91x1000000 = 91000000 10.51.08 # Hz 10.51.19 # yes but is this necessary? 10.51.33 # I dont think that the chip has hz detail. 10.51.38 # It's the simplest solution 10.51.46 # oh then ok 10.52.03 # kHz would be more unintuitive than Hz, and MHz requires handling decimals 10.52.08 # My radio uses a 91.0:descr format 10.52.14 # :) 10.52.38 # An example of rockbox philosophy - KISS 10.52.39 # Crappy coded though. I just wanted to try to change it, and it works nice. 10.52.49 # so tucoz you suggest using a 0.05 step? 10.53.12 Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10.53.18 # If that is what is wanted I think that should be done. 10.53.30 # The .fmr files aren't primarily made to be edited by hand 10.53.45 # ...although it's possible, since they're ascii 10.54.21 # amiconn: maybe if loading of .fmr files is implemented 10.54.32 # well in my code (for fmr loading and saving) I don't think that would be a problem. Although it is quite handy to be able to write one by hand. 10.55.38 Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-122-8.VIC.netspace.net.au) 10.55.45 # silly me "my code"? well modded code more like me. excuse me. 10.56.05 # Well, the format is ok as it is now I think. It is fairly easy to read, and keeps the code simple 10.57.00 # But I think there are some things that could be changed in the fm-radio. 1) number of presets 2) load preset file 3) change freq range 10.57.31 # 3) because the chip let's you do so, and some people like in japan need that. 10.58.38 # 1 and 2 will be fixed with a patch that I prepare. 10.58.51 # 3) may need attention concerning the old Samsung tuner chip 10.59.07 # XavierGr, great 11.01.40 # you have AM-radio as well on that chip? 11.01.51 # no 11.02.11 # The chip can do AM, but the components needed for AM aren't present afaik 11.02.20 # exactly 11.02.21 # ah, I see 11.02.24 # I don't have an FMR 11.02.26 # so many people ask for AM. Is that so great, I cant tune a single station in my home radio in AM 11.03.04 # LinusN: Does the Samsung tuner allow FM frequencies outside the european range? 11.03.04 # I think the americans use am radio more than people in europe 11.03.25 # amiconn: i think so 11.03.26 # Iirc the chip itself does, but perhaps there is a filter blocking them 11.03.50 # Hmm, what is the frequency range the radio chip can do on iriver? 11.04.04 # or is there any limitations at all? 11.04.09 # yes 11.04.14 # 76-108 MHz 11.04.17 # ah :/ 11.04.52 # it would be cool if it could go over 140 MHz amateur radio bands 11.05.09 # With the bad reception of the iriver? 11.05.43 # The old crappy samsung tuner allows 10-160 MHz fpr FM 11.06.29 # hehe 11.06.51 # do you have something against the samsung tuner? 11.06.58 # Yes 11.07.00 # haha 11.07.31 # It is very sensitive to electrical interference, and is not very sensitive 11.07.38 # ...to the actual signal 11.07.46 # sounds like a bad deal 11.08.25 # have to eat, see you 11.08.31 Part tucoz ("Leaving") 11.13.50 # Slasheri I tried your cache patch and I can say I am very pleased by the results! 11.15.48 # At start I thought that it would work for the fisrt folder to give time for the disk to spin, but no. I browse through various folders and spinning at all. 11.16.02 # How it works? Does it caches all the folders? 11.17.44 # yes 11.18.41 # * solexx_ can't wait for it to be committed 11.18.46 # and what if there are too many folders? 11.19.35 # XavierGr: then the cache is disabled and you have to reboot to enable it again 11.19.46 # afaik 11.19.48 # ugh 11.19.59 # hmm that's why I saw a reboot warning once in a while? 11.20.14 # yup 11.21.49 # Linus: About the fm preset scenario. Lets say that someone loads his own preset. Then he adds one (or removes) do we overwrite the changes automatically or do we wait the user to select save preset list (and then overwrite or make a new one)? 11.22.02 # XavierGr: how many folders do you have? 11.22.16 # 800 maybe 11.22.24 # 3300 files 11.22.36 # XavierGr: today it saves it immediately 11.22.51 # i think it should keep doing that 11.22.53 # yes I know it saves it in a default fmr file. 11.23.16 # it should save in the currently selected preset file 11.23.26 # ok we can keep that routine (that saves the default fmr) but what about the other presets. 11.23.39 # it should save in the currently selected preset file 11.23.53 # I agree 11.23.58 # autosave changes or manually save them (manual option will be standartd one way or the other) 11.24.48 # so it will autosave any changes, right? 11.25.02 # it should do it exactly as today, with the only difference that it saves to the currently selected file 11.25.12 # ok got it. 11.25.25 # that's my opinion, others may disagree 11.26.02 # I say go with the "least surprise" design rule 11.26.17 # and then I think it should save in the newly selected one 11.26.24 # full ack 11.27.48 # so in order to retrieve the latest filename I call gloabal_settings.wps_file (in my case fmr_file after I have done the changes) 11.29.47 # yes 11.38.19 # pff again I can't get used to the idea that in C I can't type "char a = char b" to copy a string!!! 11.39.13 # highlevel loser :-) 11.39.52 # you got me! Visual Basic was one of my favorites... 11.40.16 # and it is for Windows Programing 11.40.35 # XavierGr: just think logically and you will see that it is not possible *a and *b are pointers so doing a = b would change a's pointer to b's pointer and then both a and b would always point to the same string 11.42.02 # Slasheri: clear as mud to a vb programmer :-) 11.42.19 # :D 11.42.21 # hehe 11.42.26 # LOL 11.42.34 Join Lynx0 [0] (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 11.42.59 # Slasheri is it right with your patch to ask every once in a while rebooting? 11.43.30 # I mean okay I like the cache but if every time I delete a folder or file it needs reboot... 11.43.41 # XavierGr: no that is a bug 11.43.48 # phew!! 11.43.51 # XavierGr: You may already have implemented the presets this way, but I don't think we need a "save presets" option. The act of adding or deleting a preset should imply a save. 11.43.58 # unfortunately it doesn't happen on my unit but it will be fixed before the real commit 11.44.03 # can't wait for commitment. 11.44.06 # :) 11.44.23 # LinusN: what do you think of this new addition? 11.45.17 # which addition? the cache or the presets? 11.46.46 # cache! 11.46.59 # presets are still pending... 11.47.03 # but on the way 11.47.31 # amiconn was not so happy about it.:p 11.47.35 # I don't like the cache, but you knew that already :-) 11.47.48 # i like the cache, but i don't like the problems that go with it 11.48.02 # XavierGr: see the irc log for my opinions 11.48.04 # Browsing was so fast the other day.... 11.48.08 # ok 11.48.35 # I don't know enough facts about the cache to have an opinion yet 11.48.43 # I'm undecided about the cache - it's something users definitely want, but developers don't :). 11.48.50 # I'm worried about the "too big to fit"-problems 11.49.12 # "08.01.54 # frankly, i don't like this concept at all, but that's me" 11.49.38 # I'm likely to join up on LinusN's side on this 11.50.15 # the major problem is how to handle the situation when the hard drive is updated using the boot loader usb mode 11.50.49 # Or the iRiver firmware USB mode? 11.50.58 # Fully dynamic cache without a cache file, I'd say 11.51.23 # Even if it costs a little more battery 11.53.52 Join Febs [0] (n=Febs@207-172-122-81.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) 11.55.01 Quit Lynx_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11.55.01 Nick Lynx0 is now known as Lynx_ (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 11.55.18 # linuxstb: yes, that too 11.56.13 # LinusN: i think the most reliable solution for that problem would be to add a unlink(DIRCACHE) to the bootloader when exiting the usb mode. This should not compromise the bootloader reliability to handle emergency situations and maybe it could be added to next bootloader that is released? 11.56.46 # i'd say that the bootloader shouldn't write to the file system at all 11.56.48 # and if you only update rockbox then? 11.56.59 # ah, probably you are right 11.58.23 # but is it possible in theory that deleting a single while could made a corrupt filesystem worse? 11.58.51 # if the filesystem is very corrupted, even the unlink function should not succeed? 12.00.59 # Slasheri: The update could have happened using the iRiver's firmware. So the bootloader won't know about it. 12.01.06 # it's more a design decision 12.01.15 # the boot loader should do as little as possible 12.01.46 # and definitely not delete files, imho 12.02.15 # linuxstb: yes, but the possibility for that is very small 12.02.37 # LinusN: true.. 12.02.53 # Slasheri: small, yes, but when it happens, we will get annoying questions in the forums 12.03.15 # hmm, what about the eeprom? =) or is there any unused space? or maybe writing a value to some ram address rockbox could read on next boot up? 12.04.02 # i just thought of this scenario: 12.04.38 # - enter bootloader usb mode to add some music before i go to work 12.05.01 # - i remove the usb cable and want to run to the bus 12.05.21 # - then i can't shut off the player until the dir scan is complete, can i? 12.06.04 # if i do, i will have to reboot twice to restore the cache file, right? 12.06.05 # with current implementation you can't (or yes you can, but that will be a forced shutdown after the 8 seconds). But instead you can start playing music 12.06.29 # one boot should be enough 12.06.35 # ok 12.12.09 # ok question for the presets now. 12.12.32 # As you know I just made a new dir_filter for fmr files. 12.12.57 # so if a user has some fmr files he can see them and open them. 12.13.14 # currently it will pop up the radio and load the presets 12.13.19 # is that acceptable? 12.13.29 # seems awkward to me 12.13.35 # why? 12.13.51 # i think a preset file selector is better 12.14.10 # explain please? 12.14.12 # like the language selection 12.14.28 # or the font or the wps 12.14.31 # yes I did the same 12.14.32 # yes 12.14.54 # ok now i understand what you mean 12.15.16 # maybe that browser should be in the radio screen itself 12.15.29 # so is it acceptable when someone opens the file that the radio screen pops up and loads the presets? 12.15.41 # so make it saperate. 12.15.45 # i'd rather have the preset selector in the fm radio menu 12.16.03 # XavierGr: Are there any limitations on where the fmr files can be stored? 12.16.04 # yes there is that already 12.16.14 # well standart ones 12.16.23 # on the rockbox dir it will be rememvered 12.16.28 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.16.35 # .rockbox/fmpresets/ ? 12.16.52 # well I set it .rockbox but I can change it. 12.17.09 # i think it's best in a separate dir 12.17.17 # like the langs and plugins 12.17.31 # So I'm guessing you are not allowed subdirectories? - e.g. country/city.fmr The Wiki list of presets is getting very big. 12.17.45 # okay fine but the I will have to make the entry for the configuration more than 20 characters right? 12.17.55 # linuxstb: but are you likely to have all those preset files on your player? 12.18.10 # as Linus said 12.18.18 # Yes - I would like to just download them once, and forget about them. Rather than having to remember to get them before I travel somewhere. 12.18.29 # But it wouldn't be a huge problem to have them all in one directory. 12.18.37 # well that a little stretched 12.19.19 # i agree that it would be cool to have a giant preset database on the player 12.19.39 # so Linus you suggest to disable browsing support of the files? 12.19.49 # XavierGr: nah 12.20.06 # but maybe it shouldn't start the fm... 12.20.15 # i'm a little undecided 12.20.26 # yes I don't know either. 12.20.32 # i'd say disable it 12.20.47 # or start the viewer 12.21.08 # disable what the initialization of the FM? 12.21.44 # maybe it would be best to send the preset file to the text viewer instead 12.22.54 Quit goa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12.26.24 # something completely different: is there a reason why "push-to-right" doesn't start playing the currently selected track in the playlist viewer? 12.26.37 # i guess not 12.26.56 # it's different from the file browser although it looks almost the same 12.27.02 # speaking of the pl viewer, i think it should leave it after selecting a file 12.27.28 # wouldn'thurt either 12.27.50 # * solexx_ curses his space bar 12.29.01 Nick solexx_ is now known as solexx (n=jrschulz@d164064.adsl.hansenet.de) 12.30.11 # so if someone opens it. then the viewer should pop-up and load the file as the last opened preset file then, right? 12.32.33 # how do I open a file with the viewer? 12.33.17 # XavierGr: imho, it shouldn't do anything else than send it to the viewer 12.33.40 # not set it as the current preset? 12.34.42 # but then how could one load presets. Because even inside the radio the user loads preset after a rockbox_browse is called to select the file. 12.34.59 # true 12.35.08 # so... 12.35.35 # maybe poping the FM is still good. 12.35.48 # Why someone wants to open a preset file? 12.35.49 Join preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no) 12.36.25 # not to mention that the preset files are difficult to find unless saved outside the current rockbox folder 12.36.27 # it should probably load the preset file, but not start the fm 12.36.51 # ok that is the easiest for me to code. 12.36.58 # good 12.37.03 # I think the fmr files should behave the same as the wps files when you select them in the normal file browser. But I forget what that behaviour is. 12.37.22 # anyway we will ask for feedback before commiting. 12.37.25 # linuxstb: it selects the file (and displays it for a second) 12.37.43 # yes 12.37.46 # And it sets it to be the current WPS? 12.37.49 # yes 12.38.04 # Sounds logical for the FMR files as well then. 12.38.10 # so doing the same for fmr files seems logical 12.38.29 # IMO you could skip the display part 12.38.31 # But do we need to display it? Would a splash() be better? 12.38.35 # display them for a second and load them 12.38.52 # I never understood the use of displaying the wps 12.39.17 # it's too short to read or recognize it anyway 12.39.19 # solexx: me neither, it's pretty useless 12.39.32 # But the user needs some feedback to say what has just happened. 12.39.35 # i think it's a debug feature that remained 12.39.49 # exactly I set it to load the presets only 12.39.49 # displaying the wps doesn't tell the user "wps loaded" either 12.39.50 # a "selected" splash is way better 12.39.59 # yep 12.40.05 # and when you press right nothing happens but the preset loads 12.40.19 # LinusN is right. 12.40.23 # So "WPS selected" and "Presets selected"? 12.40.50 # Maybe though still I think that poping the FM is still good behaviour 12.41.08 # what if I have a preset in the root? 12.41.13 # It will be useless. 12.41.19 # yes it will be 12.41.29 # It will be loaded temporarily - like WPS (I think). 12.41.50 # XavierGr: i don 12.41.53 # but if the FM will not pop up then it will be lost again 12.41.56 # t think i mind that much 12.42.08 # It will be lost after the next boot. 12.42.11 # to be useless or to pop the radio 12.42.23 # the question is where it would save the presets if you change them 12.42.39 # But selecting a WPS file doesn't bring up the WPS 12.42.55 # yes because there is no need to. 12.43.00 # LinusN: Back to the same file. It's just that that file would not become the default after the next boot. 12.43.12 # but if someone wants to open presets there is a big chance that he wants to listen to radio 12.43.42 # that's why I am talking about poping the radio 12.43.45 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (n=d90a3255@labb.contactor.se) 12.43.49 # linuxstb: the way it will work, it only looks for preset files in the .rockbox/presets/ dir 12.43.53 # I say: do it 12.44.00 # or at least that's the way I think of it 12.44.30 # the wps files are "settings", the fm stations are more like "application specific documents" 12.44.32 # XavierGr: do as you wish, i don't mind if it starts the fm radio 12.44.33 # LinusN: All I'm saying is that whatever we do, I think WPS and FMR should be consistent. 12.45.06 # * [IDC]Dragon saw a cache debate 12.45.21 # linuxstb: I don't think that we must relate those two. 12.45.31 # 2 diffent uses for both. 12.45.37 # linuxstb: but they are, as solexx pointed out, not really the same thing 12.45.46 # WPS is needed only in playback while presets are needed for radio 12.46.03 # <[IDC]Dragon> long in the past, I was kicking an idea around: have a "smart" disk cache and also handle playback with it 12.47.11 # In terms of simplifying how the Rockbox UI works, I think it's useful to think of them as the same thing. That's all I'm saying. 12.47.49 # also Linus I would like to ask you about a preset addtion I thought. We can utilize a button to toggle between preset scaning and frequency scanning. I think it is a very good thing to add. 12.48.00 # linuxstb: jpeg files are opened with the appropriate plugin, too 12.48.11 # ok, fm is not exactly a plugin, but... 12.48.25 # I see solexxes argument 12.48.30 # XavierGr: i'm not sure i like that, but what the heck... 12.48.42 # Cool! 12.48.56 # I 'll try and see. 12.49.08 # XavierGr: remember that we have multiple platforms 12.49.38 # Yes before everything I will try to see if the keymaps allow such thing. 12.49.41 # XavierGr: are you using cvs now? 12.49.47 # no 12.49.51 # please do 12.49.59 # how? 12.50.05 # I need access 12.50.09 # syncing your patches will be hell if you don't 12.50.17 # you don't need write access 12.50.38 # oh you mean to update the cvs 12.50.44 # yes 12.51.04 # well I am using a cvs update before everything 12.51.20 # then I fresh copy that folder to make my hacks 12.51.33 # copy? 12.51.36 # why? 12.51.50 # yes I have a rockbox-devel folder that I update once in a while 12.51.58 # then I copy the whole folder to make my changes 12.52.05 # skip the copy 12.52.09 # and you'll be happier 12.52.13 # just to avoid downloading the whole source afain 12.52.17 # ok, and do cvs update in that folder? 12.52.17 # ^again 12.52.20 # just edit, then update 12.52.25 # in the same tree 12.53.03 # It is just that I am afraid to spoil the rockbox-devel folder with my changes so I copy it to be sure that if anything goes wrong I will have the backup 12.53.18 # this is what cvs is for 12.53.18 # if you need a fresh tree, then check out another copy there 12.53.23 # you can checkout as many as you need 12.53.56 # in fact, cvs should work fine in the copy as well... 12.53.58 # so I can type "cvs update" after the cahnges I have done? 12.54.07 # XavierGr: yes! 12.54.08 # yes, that's the whole point 12.54.16 # that's how all of us work 12.54.17 # and no duplicates or wrong code? 12.54.29 # if so, those are yours ;-) 12.54.41 # it will merge the current cvs with your changes 12.54.42 # hmm its funny that I do the update before my changes 12.55.07 # doesn't seem like the mailing list is too happy with me 12.55.20 # preglow: oh? 12.55.47 # bah 12.55.57 # forget it, i signed up with a mail alias instead of the one i use to send 12.56.01 # no wonder it wont relay my mails 12.57.38 # so if I make some cahnges in radio.c and apply my changes and update to cvs, what if a dev make changes to the radio.c? 12.57.49 # after waht I have done? 12.58.02 # that the case I am afraid 12.58.27 # no way for me to change the list address without resubscribing, no? 12.58.39 # XavierGr: then you get a collision if you're unlucky 12.58.40 Join B4gd3r [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se) 12.59.01 # shaky connection 12.59.01 # XavierGr: cvs will mark up for you where yours and the other dev's changes collide so you can merge them yourself 12.59.21 # fine I will do this from now on. 12.59.32 # but such collides are rare 12.59.34 # XavierGr: if you changed different places cvs will just merge the file and you'll never notice anything 13.00.14 # LinusN: Did you got any time to check the filescrolling jpeg viewer? Not that I am in a hurry, just asking. 13.00.21 # not yet 13.06.48 # great, THERE it accepts my mail twice 13.08.23 # Also Linus one final comment for the FM on iriver. If someone exits the FM (and continue playback) and then reenters you can hear a very loud pop when the radio starts? 13.08.28 # have you noticed it? 13.08.45 # haven't tried :-) 13.09.13 # try it, it is quite loud! 13.09.27 # it always initiates the playback when entering the fm screen, so i'm not surprised 13.09.36 # pop music! ;-) 13.09.41 # LOL 13.09.52 # At least the volume change is fixed :) 13.11.28 # * preglow vanishes 13.14.44 Quit B4gder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13.15.26 Nick B4gd3r is now known as B4gder (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se) 13.15.59 # <[IDC]Dragon> B4gder: back to l33t level 1? 13.16.24 # y34h! ;-P 13.41.51 Nick QT_ is now known as QT (i=as@madwifi/users/area51) 13.53.51 # [IDC]Dragon: There are 2 problems with gcc >3.3.x and archos 13.54.57 # (1) Code size increases, and we don't want that 13.55.16 # (2) gcc 4.0.x doesn't work at all because of a silly decision of the gcc team 14.01.07 Join Chamois [0] (i=Chamois@AStrasbourg-252-1-10-114.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) 14.01.47 # hi 14.02.22 # anyone did experience the splash problem i spoke about with the dir caching patch from slasheri ? 14.06.34 # <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: ok, then rather not 4.0.x :-( 14.06.53 # Chamois: i will investigate that problem, it is probably a bug 14.07.28 # ok 14.07.41 # but it appears only on my iriver 14.07.43 # strange 14.08.32 # <[IDC]Dragon> is gcc 4.0 beneficial for Iriver? 14.11.51 # [IDC]Dragon: The problem with gcc 4.0.x and archos is that gcc 4.0+ does only allow (weak) symbol aliases to symbols defined in the same source file, but SH1 firmware/system.c defines aliases to symbols defined in an asm() block, which the compiler can't see 14.11.53 # Chamois: i have some ideas what might cause that, i will try those soon 14.11.55 Quit Febs (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC") 14.12.51 # Chamois: do you have very deep directory structure (over 8 nestled directories)? However it shouldn't cause that problem 14.13.39 # hmm 14.13.45 # yes i have 14.14.46 # [IDC]Dragon: The problem is http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.0/changes.html , under "New languages and language specific improvements" / "C family" 14.15.22 # "This is because it's meaningless...." is nonsense as we can clearly see 14.16.31 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.25.48 Quit Chamois (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong") 14.41.26 # amiconn: well, have you spoken to the developers? 14.41.38 # <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: hmm, do we have any contact to gcc maintainers? 14.42.09 # <[IDC]Dragon> seems this would make gcc unuseable for embedded 14.42.36 # <[IDC]Dragon> if we can't call into assembler 14.43.09 # just file a bug and see what they say 14.43.24 # mailing list would probably be more sensible 14.44.47 # <[IDC]Dragon> iriver has no asm files? 14.46.34 # [IDC]Dragon: It has, but it doesn't use (weak) aliases to symbols defined in asm blocks 14.47.00 # there has to be a way around that on archos as well 14.47.08 # <[IDC]Dragon> naively asking, why do we have to in Archos? 14.47.08 # i'll admit calling into asm blocks like that isn't very pretty 14.47.41 # In fact we have to, if we don't want to make the exception handling either bloated, or hard to understand 14.48.27 # preglow: This is the exception handling. We need one entry point per exception number because it's the only way to find out this number 14.48.43 # preglow: it all comes down to the fact that the SH1 stack frame doesn't contain the vector number 14.48.53 # i don't think sh1 is alone in this 14.49.14 # i suggest someone drop a mail on their list, though 14.50.29 # see firmware/system.c lines 569..572, 592..838, 905..1015 14.54.31 # i don't see how having that feature can hurt anyway 15.06.10 # A feature idea: Every plugin has a menu assigned (if possible) to a standard button or button combination. This menu (unless the plugin disables playback) would have some default playback-related options (e.g. "volume", "pause/resume playback" and "skip current track"), plus any menu items required by the plugin itself. 15.07.09 # linuxstb: a good idea 15.07.28 # Are the pause/resume/skip options easy to implement? 15.07.55 # as long as the plugin itself controls this, it sounds like a nice idea 15.08.07 # however, this menu would of course be best assigned to a common button :> 15.10.09 # I haven't thought about how to implement it, but it would seem sensible for the plugin API to handle the common menu items in some way. 15.13.28 # linuxstb: it would seem sensible, yes, i think we could do it with a default handler in the plugin library 15.15.04 # Do you mean a button handler that would intercept the menu button press? 15.15.14 # eh.. 15.15.30 # why don't we just have two threads and allow people to control the music with the remote...? 15.15.46 # Because not everyone uses the remote... 15.15.53 # * linuxstb has lost his remote... 15.15.55 # mk, well. 15.16.04 # as long as the two ideas won't exclude eachother 15.16.06 # its fine with me 15.16.10 # And not all targets have remotes 15.16.17 # but still 15.16.30 # as long as we're not hijacking a button from all plugins now 15.16.39 # preglow: Yes, I think we would have to. 15.16.59 # well 15.17.02 # some plugins use all buttons 15.17.03 # But the benefit is that the plugin could replace key combinations with menu items. 15.17.13 # Much more user-friendly. 15.17.15 # that would do 15.17.16 # yes 15.17.18 # i agree then 15.17.40 # incidentally 15.17.48 # someone has to fix patience on iriver 15.17.50 # to use grayscale 15.17.50 # For some reason, plugins (apart from Rockboy) have not used menus until I added the API for Sudoku. 15.18.00 # so its easier to identify the color of the cards 15.18.11 # I think I saw a patch for that. 15.18.20 # hmm, i'll look at that soon then 15.18.31 # i haven't really been motivated to code lately 15.19.49 # if we use the default handler concept, it's up to the plugin to call the default handler 15.22.24 # So we would add the menu to default_event_handler(), along with functions to allow the plugin to add items to that menu? 15.24.11 # the adding of items didn't occur to me 15.25.29 # i wouldn't add it to the default handler itself 15.25.31 # well, you'd need that if you rob the plugins of buttons to utilise 15.26.30 # I was also thinking that in general some plugins (especially the ones with lots of button combinations) could benefit from their own menus anyway. 15.26.41 # yes 15.26.44 # I think all plugins that have a menu should be converted to use the core routines, then such features can be added to the plugin's menu 15.27.06 # ...providing the necessary functions as part of the plugin library 15.27.22 # agreed, i think it's a marvelous idea 15.27.32 # Plugins that don't use a menu atm but would benefit from such should get one 15.27.40 # (like the text viewer) 15.27.52 # Now the big question - which button? 15.28.03 # a/b on iriver? 15.30.40 # The menu should alwas use the standard menu button of the target if at all possible 15.31.13 # AB on iriver, F1 on archos recorders, MENU on archos player, long MODE on Ondio 15.32.41 # So I can take the definition of TREE_MENU from tree.h? 15.33.41 # Yes, provided it is available without explicitly including tree.h 15.34.09 # Plugins should never include anything else than plugin.h or .h files from the plugin library 15.35.07 # So there is no central set of #defines for button aliases? 15.35.14 # (at the moment) 15.38.43 # I now have a far more controversial suggestion - making the main menu the "root window" of Rockbox, instead of the file briowser. The first item in the main menu would then become "Browse Files" 15.42.21 # wow 15.42.53 # why is that better? 15.44.19 # I think it's a nicer "home" to come back to. 15.45.04 # Two new items on the main menu would be "browse files" and "WPS" (or "Now Playing" or similar) 15.45.23 # <[IDC]Dragon> the Ondio stock firmware has such 15.45.32 # Leaving the WPS or the file browser or the FM radio would take you consistently back to the main menu. 15.45.42 # <[IDC]Dragon> a quick menu with an entry for each button, basically 15.46.22 # I wouldn't like that. 15.46.24 # <[IDC]Dragon> top entries are browsing, resume, record, FM or such 15.46.26 # I've started implementing it, and will put a test build up for people to try. The code changes seem trivial, but it's a completely different way of thinking when using Rockbox. 15.46.43 # It means more keypresses for selecting the music to play 15.46.43 # But personally I think it's more natural. 15.47.00 # I think I'll have to test it before I give a judgement 15.47.12 # amiconn: I accept that. 15.47.13 # [IDC]Dragon: Ondio FM has 4 entries, Ondio SP has only 2 15.47.21 # <[IDC]Dragon> I found it quite nice 15.48.01 # It's also that you can do a lot more in Rockbox now than just play files - but it's biased towards that aspect. 15.48.29 # <[IDC]Dragon> resume is one button, like before 15.48.32 # Yes, however, playing music is the primary purpose of a DAP 15.48.57 # <[IDC]Dragon> other people record often, or use the radio 15.49.34 # The default option in the main menu will be "browse files" - so it's only one extra keypress. 15.55.26 # Still one keypress too much ;/ 15.56.21 # The archos ondio firmware uses something like our quick menu, left/right/up/down for 4 functions (only up/down on ondio SP) 15.56.23 # Start in browser = yes 15.57.12 Quit ashridah ("Leaving") 15.57.15 # new option! 15.57.17 # :-) 15.57.38 # All I'm asking is to test my demo build with an open mind. 15.57.59 # * B4gder will 15.58.17 # me too sounds great! 15.59.01 # Now that I think of it I haven't heard any suggestion that I disliked sofar in Rockbox... 16.00.39 # LinusN: Hmm. Perhaps a Start in.. option allowing to choose between main menu, browser, recording screen (...) 16.01.05 # That wouldn't add an extra option, as we already have "Start in recording screen" 16.02.04 # The question is how the menu will be handled if we already are in the browser. It might become possible to loop... 16.03.03 # that could be... interesting 16.03.13 # linuxstb: i'd love to try this change 16.03.20 # Either the browser calls the menu (and the menu exists), or the menu calls the browser, and the browser exits. 16.03.40 # So at startup, one or the other would be called. 16.04.17 # I'd rather do it a bit different to make the behaviour more consistent 16.04.55 # It would require this "root menu" to be independent, not callable from anywhere except at startup 16.05.42 # This root menu would then check the "Start in.." setting and execute the matching menu option without a button press 16.06.19 # (of course unless the setting is "root menu", then it would display itself and wait for a button) 16.06.26 # i like it 16.06.52 # The question is whether it should be possible to go back to this root menu if it's not your preferred starting point 16.07.21 # hmmm 16.07.23 # <[IDC]Dragon> how about a configurable root menu (Jehova!) 16.07.35 # <[IDC]Dragon> 16.07.37 # /kick [IDC]Dragon 16.07.46 # I think it has to, or otherwise functions need to be callable from multiple points 16.11.41 Nick paugh is now known as AliasCoffee (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) 16.12.29 Join Chamois [0] (i=Chamois@AStrasbourg-252-1-21-160.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) 16.13.39 # now that is what I call strange or magic!!!! 16.14.04 # I planted some splashes onto my code to see output(I know I should have used logf) 16.14.20 # then I removed them all with replace. 16.14.21 Join rasher [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) 16.14.52 # but one was splashing even if I had removed all of them. 16.15.17 # I commented a line compiled and then uncommented and the splash never apeared again???? 16.15.22 # *PANIC* 16.15.36 # do not PANIC 16.15.39 # updating size on empty dir entry 19 16.15.52 # i don't - my iriver does! 16.16.08 # that's the error you got? 16.16.10 # didn't touch it for quite a while, it was just playing 16.16.13 # sourceforge cvs is hell 16.16.15 # XavierGr: yep 16.16.34 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.16.37 # oh, battery empty... 16.17.10 # sourceforge in general should be avoided for sanity 16.17.48 # * solexx curses rockbox for not shutting down when battery is *very* low 16.19.47 Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbc87.b.pppool.de) 16.20.18 Part LinusN 16.20.34 # you should always charge your player at around 40% of the remaining battery. 16.20.56 # Li-ion and li-polimer tends to hold more if you charge it around that. 16.21.09 # says who? 16.21.25 # i've never heard of that 16.21.31 # Battery University.com 16.22.07 # On the other hand using li batteries to the end and over usage kills them more quick 16.23.09 # afk 16.24.33 # yes, that's known 16.24.56 # if you let a li-* battery run to too low a voltage, its capacity will be permanently lowered 16.25.08 # exactly. 16.25.21 # the golden line for charging is at 30-40% 16.25.53 # hum... 16.26.05 # i always let my battery dry out :-| 16.26.20 Join wacky [0] (n=wacky@modemcable006.177-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) 16.26.21 # i hear you should charge when the battery's still about 60-70% full 16.26.24 # speaking percentages in this aspect seems so non-techie 16.26.43 # heh 16.27.19 # btw is misticriver down? 16.27.33 # no 16.28.09 # how long was your last visit there muesli? 16.28.13 # cant reach it 16.28.32 # hey guys, do you think a port for the iAudio is something that will come after the H3xx ?! 16.28.32 # http://www.misticriver.net/ 16.28.36 # no connect 16.28.56 # wacky: if there are people who wants it and works on it, then sure 16.28.59 # I have no problems to log in. 16.28.59 # wacky: different people are working on those ports 16.29.08 # wacky: either might come first 16.29.15 # but the iAudio port has stalled for months 16.29.18 # XavierGr who knows..will try l8er.. 16.29.23 # otherwise, I think I'd return that thing. I can't stand bad firmwares anymore, now that I've sighted your software 16.29.26 # but can't exactly claim i've seen austriancoder too much lately, though 16.29.43 # yeah.. that's it! haven't seen him either 16.29.55 # I mailed him a week or so ago 16.30.01 # and he said he'd be back on track soon 16.30.09 # goooodd :) 16.30.12 # XavierGr so you recommend charging at 30% already? 16.30.25 Quit tvelocity (Success) 16.30.42 # guys, you who know the hardware a little bit more than me.. do you think porting pitchtune.sf.net to the Rockbox would make something horribly slow ? 16.30.47 # what's the speed of the display ? 16.30.59 # you can't just straight port that 16.31.08 # I know.. I mean the concept 16.31.13 # heh :P 16.31.20 # unless you want to code a gtk port for us 16.31.26 # hahah :) 16.32.03 # something like it is not impossible, though 16.32.13 # just wondering.. if the LCD and hardware stuff are fast enough to draw the samples that come through the mic. input... 16.32.36 # well, we already do it on the remote 16.32.42 # huH?? 16.32.44 # as for the main screen i have no idea 16.32.55 # wacky: when you record, you can have the waveform be viewed on the remote lcd 16.33.07 # realtime 16.33.28 # really ?!? hey... I've leaved my beloved iRiver alone too much 16.33.58 # the main unit's LCD is broken.. so I was just waiting for remote support.. but that doesn't mean I can control recording from the remote huh? 16.35.35 # not entirely, no 16.35.51 # parts ?! 16.39.01 # yeah, but can't remember what 16.40.58 # I'm going to try that out :) 16.49.37 # <[IDC]Dragon> maybe LinusN has a display in that bag of chips 16.51.49 # muesli: yes 30% is okay. 16.54.19 # an LCD ? yeah.. but he's a bit far away :) 16.54.45 # hey muesli check this out another remote support by someone called firefly! 16.54.57 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.55.11 # http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1549.0 16.56.15 # a good one this time ? 16.57.52 # :( well it seems better than mine. It is based on latest builds too. 16.58.03 # But it lacks remoteconfiguration :p 16.58.20 # Easy thing to add I will email him the details 16.58.56 # Though I don't think that it will make cvs... 16.59.12 # wooooo! 17.02.23 # I would like an approach that doesn't pollute the entire source code with #ifdefe HAVE_REMOTE_LCD 17.02.34 # hey that's neat! 17.02.54 # everything works! so I've got my player back on track! :) 17.03.46 # where's the recording menu ? 17.03.55 # in the debug screen 17.04.08 # i don't think that'll take kindly to this patch 17.05.05 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 17.08.25 # hmm.. the recording screen isn't on the remote :P So I don't know what I'm doing :) 17.10.14 # do you know the keymapping for the recording screen ?! 17.10.23 Quit AliasCoffee (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17.19.50 Quit Chamois (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so good") 17.20.32 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.22.44 Join goa [0] (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 17.24.02 # * wacky 's tired of that BitchX client 17.24.05 Quit wacky ("laksdfj") 17.25.06 Join wacky [0] (n=wacky@modemcable006.177-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) 17.25.24 # ouch.. that 'epic' client has absolutely no colors ?! 17.26.43 Quit wacky (Client Quit) 17.26.51 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 17.27.40 Join cYmen [0] (n=cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) 17.28.43 # Wacky should've loaded a script. 17.29.00 # But really, he should just use irssi. 17.29.07 # :) 17.29.08 # why rockbox_browse always return false? 17.29.29 # it should return true on file selection and false on cancel! 17.30.04 # hrm, there are only "return false" and "return" statements 17.30.18 # What does "return;" mean in a bool function? 17.30.50 # "you're violating the spec!", i assume 17.31.03 # sorry didn't catch what you said, rasher 17.31.36 # XavierGr: the rockbox_browse function either does "return false;" or "return;" - there are no return true; statements in the function 17.32.17 # return? where do you see the blant return? 17.32.23 # I can see only a return false. 17.32.48 # line 1150 17.33.04 # and 1504 17.34.05 # but these are not on the rockbox_browse function 17.34.22 # haha 17.34.27 # silly me 17.34.33 # lol 17.34.42 # Wasn't reading properly 17.34.59 # Heh. 17.35.08 # anyway what a "return" means on a boolean function? I know that you need to return something 17.35.15 # hm, dirbrowse() returns a bool 17.35.27 # return true or false 17.35.34 # XavierGr: it's not there, it'd probably give either a warning or a compiler error 17.35.42 # I was imagining things. 17.36.13 # it is just that I call rockbox_browse to select a file. 17.36.26 # if the user cancels the code executes anyway. 17.36.45 # rockbox_browse should possibly return the return value of the dirbrowse() call 17.36.49 # but in the examples of lets say font selection it works. Strange 17.36.49 # I'm thinking 17.37.21 # That'd make sense, methinks 17.37.31 # I think that dirbrowse never returns something 17.37.37 # it doesn't make sense that rockbox_browse always returns false, at least 17.37.41 # dirbrowse returns a bool 17.37.50 # either false in the case of a few errors, or true 17.37.50 # but 17.37.56 # that's not what you want either, I guess 17.38.54 # hmm dirbrowse return true in the end. 17.39.17 # it is strange because I can see the same thing for something else working right. 17.39.53 # And it is not big deal for what I am doing,it will not cause an error, it is just that it will spin the disk needlesly 17.40.21 # rockbox_browse will return false either if I push right or left. 17.40.57 # only diference is that if it is a known filetype and you press left the code will not run for the file. 17.42.11 # anyway i Will find something different. 17.42.14 Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbca6.b.pppool.de) 17.47.42 # how many presets do you suggest to be the limit? 17.47.46 # 40 or 50? 17.48.12 Quit Nilisco (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.49.18 # anyone? a simple suggestion? 17.49.52 # I think someone was saying paris had 55 stations 17.50.10 # 64? 17.50.43 Join Nilisco [0] (i=nilisco@wrath.shellfx.net) 17.51.06 # ok then I will double it. 64 to be sure 17.51.51 # It is just a define so if the devs think that it is a waste we should change it. (Though I think the code stops claiming memory if there are less than 64 entries) 17.52.35 # I saw a h340 in a shop today 17.52.55 # XavierGr: nope 17.53.04 # we have no dynamic memory 17.54.05 # so do you think that 64 is too much? 17.55.32 # I guess not 18.02.54 Quit B4gder ("time to say moo") 18.07.40 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.16.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.26.26 Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h36n10c1o285.bredband.skanova.com) 18.37.08 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 18.41.01 Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-122-177.VIC.netspace.net.au) 18.41.25 Nick Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) 18.49.00 Quit XavierGr () 18.51.10 Quit rasher ("Ex-Chat") 18.51.18 Join rasher_ [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) 18.51.21 Nick rasher_ is now known as rasher (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) 18.54.40 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC") 18.54.55 # Anyone played with Tremor on Windows? 19.00.12 Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-213-168-116-124.netcologne.de) 19.01.35 Join _aLF [0] (n=Alexandr@mut38-2-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) 19.02.28 # linuxstb: Regarding your ipod porting effort: I don't think it would be mandatory to support the itunes database 19.03.59 # I'd think the main reason for rockbox on ipod would be to get rid of the now-mandatory pair ipod-itunes, and allow plain filesystem playback 19.05.08 # It's probably a good idea to do it. Some people are too attached to iTunes by now. 19.05.54 # I think these people are better off if they stay with the apple firmware 19.06.24 # Itunesdb support might be a nice complement, but I won't give it top priority 19.08.16 # * ender` tried itunes - too much eye candy 19.08.25 # Why would someone change from Apple firmware if they wanted to use iTunes? 19.08.30 # Apart from full usb msd compatibility I wouldn't see the point in porting rockbox. From several statements it seems the apple firmware is user friendly, unlike iriver or archos firmware 19.08.42 # * fuzzie mumbles something about vorbis. 19.08.53 # Gapless and other audio codecs 19.08.59 # fuzzie: but iTunes doesn't allow vorbis 19.09.06 # it does 19.09.20 # admittedly no-one has a qt7 codec which can read tags, yet 19.09.26 # I thought that iTunes converted everything to Apple format first 19.09.26 # The user unfriendliness of the archos firmware was one of the reasons why the rockbox project was started 19.09.30 # no 19.09.30 # But it refuses to sync them to the ipod - because the ipod can't play them. 19.09.30 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa147.3.tellas.gr) 19.10.10 # linuxstb: ipod doesn't do gapless??? 19.10.32 # * BirdFish sees where a Rockbox port with iTunes capabilites could be nice now. But points out that most iPod users are of the "social crowd" and have them merely for the sake of having a dap. 19.10.43 # about user friendliness, truthfully, i preferred the original H120 interface to rockbox 19.10.54 # Oh? 19.11.10 # /ignore ender` 19.11.17 # :P 19.11.59 # Maybe it looks a bit better, but that doesn't make it user friendly, imho... 19.12.26 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=5343d4aa@labb.contactor.se) 19.12.37 # amiconn: No, the ipod is far from gapless. 19.12.45 # *When* do dap manufacturers learn their lessons? :\ 19.12.46 # when eg. setting options, i like to see all available options at once, while with rockbox i usually get 2 lines of text and 75% of unused screen space 19.13.42 # amiconn: I believe they already did 19.13.53 # You do have a point there. Still, should be easy to fix... 19.13.54 # amiconn: noone outside a few whiny geeks care about gapless 19.13.55 Join Mxm`Pas`Bien [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 19.14.09 Quit Maxime` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.14.14 # rasher: gapless playback could be a cool feature 19.14.46 # * ender` doesn't care about gapless, while ReplayGain is very important to him 19.14.51 # rasher: Archos could do gapless in 2000. Why today's dap manufacturers can't do that is beyound me 19.14.57 # rasher: dap manufacturers are just rushing everything our right now in an attempt to beat another in the "looks pretty, must be cool" race 19.15.02 # amiconn: They don't have to. 19.15.15 # The ipod hardware is also capable of high quality (96KHz 16-bit stereo) recording. But the Apple firmware doesn't support it. 19.15.19 # ReplayGain is a must 19.15.33 # VorbisGain is even better! 19.15.50 # But I would say the main problem is the reliance on iTunes or a third-party clone. 19.15.53 # BirdFish: same thing 19.16.00 # rasher: no 19.16.09 # VorbisGain is for OggVorbis files 19.16.15 # ReplayGain is for Mp3 files 19.16.16 # ... 19.16.24 # Vorbisgain is an implementation of ReplayGain for vorbis files 19.16.30 # ender`: It's exactly the other way 'round for me, but that doesn't change the image of today's dap manufacturers at all, in fact 19.16.33 # Nope, ReplayGain is for MusePack! :p 19.16.35 # mp3gain is an implementation of ReplayGain for mp3 files. 19.16.37 # it's kind of funny, ask many ipod owners about gapless and they would say that its nearly perfect 19.16.45 # For Mp3, use Mp3Gain. 19.18.04 # Heh, either it is gapless or it isn't, so I don't see it could be "nearly perfect"... 19.18.07 # Also, the iPod is (I think) the only other DAP with a third-party open source firmware. So it's the easiest available new target for Rockbox. 19.18.27 # Nah, I wouldn't say easiest 19.18.40 # I'm not sure what the big deal about gapless playback is though 19.18.59 # I'm not sure I always want my songs playing directly back to back 19.19.05 # A nice pause helps when changing genres 19.19.12 # BirdFish: Encode a mix album, and play that 19.19.25 # The track change must not be audible 19.19.34 # It should sound exactly as the source CD 19.20.01 # Source music is always nice 19.20.03 # :D 19.20.43 # And once I get rid of this h10 piece of shit and get a real dap, I'll start loading all my music in a much higher bitrate 19.21.13 # the iaudio x5 does FLAC :D 19.21.42 # * BirdFish wonders if Rockbox has ever thought of including Monkey's Audio in their firmware 19.22.00 # * rasher points BirdFish at the SoundCodecs wiki page 19.22.08 # * Lear doubts the APE code is GPL compabitle... 19.22.13 # It isn't. 19.22.14 # * BirdFish thanks rasher 19.23.38 # amiconn: I'm curious - which other players would be easier? 19.24.25 # linuxstb: I'm not sure, but I'd think the iAudio players, and of course H3x0 19.24.37 # Odd.. I have one gcc3 build and one gcc4. If I try to compile a "partial" gcc3-build with gcc4 (or vice versa), I get really strange errors... 19.24.56 # The bad thing with ipod is that it uses a closed-docs core chip 19.25.24 # Even though the ipodlinux guys reverse engineered a lot, you said yourself it's badly documented 19.25.38 # I wouldn;'t disagree with that. 19.26.27 # ...and I'd expect some 'neat' surprises when working on a port 19.27.17 # Hmm, then that may also happen with documented chips; I should know about that :/ 19.27.23 # I'm expecting to be able to get a 95% working port working relatively easily. The other 5% will be due to lack of knowledge by ipodlinux. 19.27.31 # * amiconn just says mas bitshift 19.30.46 # Another ipod drawback is the variety of generations 19.31.39 # It's hard to define whether it's valid to say 'rockbox runs on ipod' if it runs on just one or two of them 19.31.58 # I wouldn't call it a drawback. The good thing is there has been a general stability between all the different models. 19.32.14 # Just compare them to the range of iRiver or Archos players... 19.32.43 # Archos isn't bad in that respect 19.32.55 # (well, the range rockbox is running on) 19.33.11 # igp-100->ihp-100->ihp-300 wasn't too bad 19.33.26 # True, but there are probably more Archos targets for Rockbox than there are iPod variations. 19.33.47 # All of them use the same CPU (SH1) at almost the same clock, all of them use a MAS as the audio dsp, all except the players use the same lcd... 19.34.48 # There are six archos targets, with two of them being binary identical with only a slight difference in scrambling 19.34.57 # That's easy to beat with ipod generations... 19.35.45 # Small quiz: Which 2 of the 6 archos targets are the binary identical ones? ;) 19.35.52 # I'm just saying the situation is similar. 19.36.48 Join Slyck [0] (i=Acksaw@spc1-stok5-4-0-cust5.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) 19.37.32 # Hi 19.39.06 # linuxstb: If we want to support all the different generations, we would need to acquire at least one of each. 19.39.20 # Do you think it's possible to tell the generation of an ebay offer? 19.39.27 # Or acquire developers with them. 19.39.41 # Hmm, of course 19.40.13 # anyone seen those Boomtubes? 19.40.20 # The photos and descriptions at http://ipodlinux.org/Generations will help if you want to go shopping 19.40.47 # I think they're pretty easily disinguishable 19.40.49 # eh 19.50.15 Quit ashridah ("Leaving") 19.50.57 Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU) 19.51.08 Part Slyck 19.52.24 # Yay, the "Sandvall"-patch produces bit-identical output, it seems like. Good. :) 19.53.23 # And when running in Windows, it's about 30% faster... 19.53.38 # (Than the stock lowmem version of Tremor, that is) 19.55.17 # But that only makes it slightly faster than the stock tremor (again, in Windows)... 19.55.39 # what's the point then? 19.56.30 # Tremor_lowmem uses much less memory, which would solve a few problematic ogg files... And could perhaps be a little faster. 20.00.28 Quit arkascha (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20.01.47 # Lear: I thought rockbox already uses tremor-lowmem, am I wrong? 20.02.07 # Ouch, the Tremor that was the base for the Rockbox port is really fast... about 40% or so, compared to current Tremor. 20.02.59 # amiconn: I'm pretty sure, yes. The code differs quite a bit (compared with the lowmem version I've checked at least), and Rockbox simulator memory behaviour is similar to that of the non-lowmem version. 20.09.43 # Maybe the lowmem version can be made faster on iriver because lower memory consumption allows to put more things in iram? 20.12.25 # Doubt that; much of the difference is from dynamically allocated stuff based on the codebooks in the file, and how the file is read into work buffers. 20.13.07 Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) 20.13.58 Join zeekoe [0] (n=zeekoe@wekkerradio.kabel.utwente.nl) 20.16.40 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.21.18 # Lear: have you tried with gcc4.0.2 ? 20.21.58 # No, wasn't released when I downloaded 4.0.1... 20.22.10 # Ah 20.22.24 # I'll try 20.23.55 # Is it released now? 20.24.26 # There's a 4.0.2 directory on the server at least 20.31.47 Join solexx_ [0] (n=jrschulz@d144209.adsl.hansenet.de) 20.46.03 Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp45-adsl-28.ath.forthnet.gr) 20.48.45 Quit solexx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20.49.36 Quit Mxm`Pas`Bien () 20.50.13 Nick TiMiD[ZZZzzz] is now known as TiMiD (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) 20.50.19 # hi 20.51.05 # hi 20.51.08 # about remote : will firefly patch be accepted (in that case I stop my developpement) ? 20.51.24 # I don't think so. 20.51.29 # ok 20.51.45 # While it does the work (like my older remote build) it approaches the wrong way. 20.51.52 # there's -another- remote patch? 20.52.03 # I think a combination of your work TiMiD and firefly's is the way to go 20.52.05 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 20.52.05 # yes, it's like the one you did before 20.52.22 # The remote must be programed in a saperate thread with diferent .c files that will contain the remote rendering routines 20.52.25 # Lear: danger 20.52.31 # rasher: the problem is that it's a completely different approach 20.52.34 # Lear: /home/jonas/rockbox/apps/codecs/libmad/synth.c: In function ‘synth_full’: 20.52.37 # I don't duplucate code 20.52.37 # /home/jonas/rockbox/apps/codecs/libmad/synth.c:646: error: can't find a register in class ‘DATA_REGS’ while reloading ‘asm’ 20.52.53 # TiMiD: I know, but some places aren't easily generalized 20.53.06 # so the existing code have to be more deeply modified 20.53.10 # like rolo ouotputting "Rolo loading" on both screens, etc 20.53.17 # the #ifdef remote isn't a good way to go 20.53.48 # rasher: 4.0.2 isn't released yet... 20.53.49 # problem with both patches is that it floods the main code with remote specific code. 20.53.51 # What I intend to do is to avoid lcd_* calls in application files 20.53.59 # Lear: Ah :) 20.54.02 # but it sounds like more cases of the same problem... 20.54.07 # that is not acceptable. we must program the remote saperately 20.54.34 # then you are on the right path TiMiD 20.54.41 # by getting the job done with some gui functions 20.55.17 # for example I started a list "widget" which can be used in both menus and filetree 20.55.22 # it would be best to saperate your code to remote local files (that will include some of the original code) 20.55.23 # Remote should not be different .c files, imho (if you mean like remote-tree.c, etc.). Makes maintenance harder... 20.55.29 # but the integration will be painful 20.55.46 # nope 20.55.50 # no separate files 20.55.52 # timid: and playlist viewer. 20.55.56 # Ok then what you suggest in order to avoid floodinf the code? 20.56.53 # playlist viewer too 20.57.24 # maybe also a wps "widget" (you can't call this widget because it's not that flexible) 20.57.28 # A sort of graphics context, keeping the needed state for remote _or_ main. Widgets and gfx render to the context, which maps the calls to the right display. Might reqiure same kind of display in main unit and remote though... 20.58.17 # http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/screen_access.h 20.58.29 # I handle multiple screens like that 20.58.53 # (not finished though) 21.00.11 # hmm I got a little confused. What are you trying to do exactly? 21.00.39 # Because all main rendering functions for the remote are already present 21.00.46 # to allow acces to both screens with the same interface 21.01.01 # what is missing is to call those functions. 21.01.12 # so code is same for remote and main display 21.01.49 # hmm better discuss this with a dev 21.02.03 # He, exactly what I had in mind... :) 21.02.03 # I can't help you much 21.02.21 # for example lcd_set_drawmode(DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID); or lcd_remote_set_drawmode(DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID); becomes display->set_drawmode(DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID); 21.02.52 # (since the functions have exactly the same prototype) 21.03.01 # interesting now I begin to understand 21.03.06 # I handle this with fn pointers 21.03.51 # but still sometimes you must call the function specifically with arguments that will fit current screen. 21.05.58 Join hd [0] (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 21.06.21 Quit Maxime () 21.07.03 # XavierGr: no, LCD_WIDTH becomes display->width :) 21.07.40 # well I didn't tested "advanced functions" 21.08.06 # but until now, everything is working as expected 21.08.10 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 21.08.14 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.10.47 # The only problem I see is the huge amount of code to understand and modify / reorganize 21.11.20 # I believe you should start by creating the widgets 21.11.27 # if possible 21.11.53 # I started with the list (from scratch) and the status bar 21.11.54 # and then start submitting patches for the rest of rockbox to use these 21.11.54 Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.11.57 # other people can do that 21.12.04 # as well, once the widgets are there 21.12.18 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 21.12.18 # when status bar will be working, I will try an integration with the filetree to test 21.12.42 # the problem is that the code is in intermediate state 21.13.09 # old pieces of code to allow thewhole thing to compile andnew code used in small parts 21.15.33 Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) 21.15.34 Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.19.07 Join hd- [0] (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 21.20.42 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 21.22.24 Quit goa (No route to host) 21.22.25 Nick hd- is now known as goa (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 21.28.17 Quit Maxime () 21.30.42 # Lear: I suck. I hadn't cvs upped to get your changes 21.31.17 # :) 21.31.29 # so I guess the 4.0.2 might've worked as well 21.31.34 # going to stick with the 4.0.1 release 21.31.44 # maybe someone can help me: how can i rip multiple tracks from a cd as a single wav file? 21.32.09 # Interesting... Sandvalls patch includes lots of tables, but many of them doesn't seem to be used...? 21.32.22 # Exact Audio Copy (Windows) can do that easily... 21.32.24 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 21.32.32 Quit hd (No route to host) 21.33.01 # So it looks like TiMiD will get this done... I didn't have a clue about function pointers. 21.33.05 # I think someone needs to write a coldfire compiler which isn't ICE-happy. 21.33.11 # Someone get to that. 21.33.29 # * rasher suggests punching the gcc developers 21.33.51 # i've spent quite enough time punching the m68k gcc people for other reasons :< 21.34.20 Join hd [0] (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 21.36.25 Join Aedaren_ [0] (n=Aedaren@71-35-210-44.slkc.qwest.net) 21.36.40 # hey is recording working on the h1x0 yet? 21.37.01 # and if so, where is it in the menus? 21.37.41 Quit Maxime () 21.37.50 # Aedaren_: a recording-test function is available through the debug menu "info > debug (keep out!) > pcm recording" 21.38.14 # It's not close to how recording will work eventually 21.38.38 # right, thanks.. will it kill my player if I try it out? 21.38.41 # :) 21.39.19 # Not at all (but you'll have to restart once you're done) 21.39.28 # And it may crash 21.39.40 # There's a reason why it's in the debug menu after all 21.39.45 # But it's not "dangerous" as such 21.39.53 # Just not very good 21.39.59 # thanks! 21.40.38 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 21.43.22 Part Aedaren_ 21.43.49 Quit goa (No route to host) 21.43.49 Nick hd is now known as goa (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) 21.43.52 Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.46.43 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 21.55.23 # why do I get an error regarding alac codec when compiling? 21.55.38 # I get past it with make -k but it is annoying 21.56.25 # I've needed to run tools/configure, but I don't know why... 21.56.57 # it's because it doesn't build alac otherwise, but still tells the linker to link with it 21.57.01 # do you get the same error? 21.57.31 # XavierGr: always try to rerun tools/configure first when you get problems like that 21.58.04 # Would be nice if configure could remember autoconf settings... :) 21.58.31 # it once did, but it turned out to be rather painful to support properly 21.58.42 # since it changed quite a bit at times 22.00.21 # I have a patch that adds a big notice on the screen if the configure script is newer than what was used to generate the root makefile 22.00.22 # I type an alias to tools/configure 22.00.23 # rbconf 22.00.45 # ugha 22.03.37 Quit goa (No route to host) 22.06.05 Join ]Maggie[ [0] (i=fupl@t2-17.ath.cx) 22.12.25 Quit BirdFish (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.16.04 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 22.16.43 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.25.23 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) 22.29.56 Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.30.39 Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) 22.37.20 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-43-229.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) 22.40.28 # Hm... What happens with the result when using the emac on 16-bit integers in fractional mode? 22.40.45 # * rasher summons preglow 22.43.10 # I am always suprised with rockbox. Due to a bug a filename takes 2 slashes "/.rockbox//test.fmr". Not only it will not crash but it will load the file fine :) 22.43.41 # sounds logical 22.44.42 # hi 22.44.42 # why it should crash on the second slash 22.44.47 # hi 22.44.51 # how is it going for the H300 ? 22.44.58 # idle... 22.45.15 # mirak: it sits waiting 22.46.06 # why ? 22.46.14 # there is a problem or lack of time ? 22.46.26 # lack of time I suppose. 22.46.36 # a big lack of time even 22.46.38 # LinusN is a very busy person 22.46.50 # who else is on H300? 22.47.13 # well, many people could write h300 code if they wanted 22.47.22 # but I guess everyone waits for the bootloader 22.47.31 # but LinusN is in charge ofthe bootloader right? 22.47.45 # yes, he's the only one with both a h300 and a bdm wiggler 22.47.59 # the preciouss bootloader, my preciousssss 22.51.34 # Lear: so, rockbox works just fine with 4.0.x now? 22.51.45 # Lear: tried to do any codec performance measurements? ;) 22.52.12 # Lets say that I have a char pointer *name. Is it right to allocate memory for it "memset(name, 0, 40)" and then strpy a value there? 22.52.27 # ^strcpy 22.52.43 # memset() doesn't "allocate" memory 22.52.51 # it fills it with a set byte value 22.53.06 # so that is wrong suppose. 22.53.17 # yes, at least rather pointless 22.53.19 # and you should use strncpy to not overflow a static buffer :) 22.53.52 # or even memcpy() since strncpy() is generally an evil function ;-) 22.54.32 # well, memcpy is more work because you'd have to grab the string length and work out how much to copy yourself, but shrug 22.54.42 # yes 22.54.48 # but strncpy() zero-pads 22.54.54 # and it may not zero-terminate 22.55.06 # overflowing it, is impossible. 22.55.17 # to my case 22.55.26 # well, if you're memsetting beforehand then you can just provide it with bufferlen-1 for n. 22.55.32 # but i wasn't aware it zero-padded 22.55.46 # that is indeed evil :) 22.55.59 # it is very annoying 22.57.11 # * HCl yawns 22.57.12 # hello. 22.57.54 # hi HCl! 22.58.11 # hey :3 22.58.13 # how goes? 23.00.00 # interesting... 23.00.17 # Soon I will finish the load/save preset patch! 23.00.28 # you? 23.02.24 # sleepy 23.02.27 # i'd lay on my bed 23.02.32 # but i put my kitty behind my blankets 23.02.39 # and he's being very happy laying there 23.02.43 # does anyone know how to reover a hdd mp3 player that has a bad file system without opening it up? 23.02.43 # and i don't want to disturb him 23.02.54 # depends on the mp3 player 23.02.58 # with rockbox, usb bootloader 23.03.03 # otherwise, open it up, heh 23.03.29 # yeah i wish this has rockbox on it >< 23.03.52 # alternatively 23.03.56 # you might be able to claim warranty 23.04.15 # what mp3 player (curiosity) 23.04.17 # http://www.actronelectronics.com/detail.asp?product_id=38 - this one, bought it for my bro's birthday but now it won't boot after i tried transfering some files ;/ 23.04.27 # :( 23.04.28 # yeah going to try them tomorrow morning 23.05.15 # i have bad luck with mp3 players apart from iriver, bought a phillips hdd070 and that sucks 23.05.31 Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr) 23.05.35 # i only have an iriver 23.05.37 # HCl: you have a kitty? (yeah I remember from your site) you are lucky, I love cats, though I don't have one. :( 23.05.38 # think i'll go ipod next time :/ 23.05.43 # yesh ^^ 23.05.48 # he's so cute :) 23.06.37 # prrrrr :p 23.06.49 # miaow! 23.06.55 # :p 23.07.11 # how old is he? 23.07.34 # about two, i think 23.07.39 # though i'm not completely sure 23.14.03 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat") 23.14.07 Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@szgt-d9b8e95e.pool.mediaWays.net) 23.16.54 # strlcpy is better than strncpy... 23.18.11 # preglow: Yes, I run a 4.0 build now. I haven't made any exact measurements, no. Looking on the audio thread screen a couple of times... 23.18.12 # strcpy,strncpy. strlcpy, memcpy, memncpy I say whatever... 23.19.01 # and I don't think that a function is better than other, it is just some uses of that function are better than others. 23.19.33 # well, some functions makes it easier to do mistakes than others 23.20.06 # a million buffer overflows have taught us that 23.20.22 # sure but if there is no possibility for error it is quite troublesome. 23.20.51 # There's always possibility for error. 23.20.56 # Error is always an option. 23.21.07 # there will always be errors 23.22.58 # so you mean that if I call a strcpy there always a chance that an overflow will occur? 23.23.08 # yes 23.23.16 # Regarding errors, I read on wikipedia about a small chunk of code in the Xbox. 512 bytes only, doing the initial bootstrap. 3 bugs made the it wide open for hackers (in the positive sense)... 23.23.19 # not if you check the length properly first 23.23.29 # yea 23.23.34 # xbox is fun :p 23.23.38 # * HCl has one 23.23.51 # and in the xbox, they even left two of those three bugs when they updated it (iirc) 23.24.09 # you can still hack in to it with software only :) 23.24.17 # though you have to get the software on the harddisk first 23.24.49 # they need a kernel patch due to bad pci 23.27.29 # I wish rockbox could support dynamic memory... 23.27.37 # why it can't anyway? 23.27.39 # why? 23.27.39 # no you don't 23.27.43 # it can 23.27.45 # we just won't 23.28.33 # every time I want to enter a new filename variable I think of all the wasted bytes cause of the char array[MAX_PATH] 23.28.51 # they are only waste if you declare it 'static' 23.28.51 # think of it as always counting for the worst case 23.29.36 # then okay. Though in the filescrolling jpeg viewer it has to be static so... 23.29.55 # in the plugins the space isn't wasted anyway 23.30.04 # since it just thrown away when the plugin exits 23.30.14 # the reason we don't have dynamic memory is that it doesn't solve any problem, it just makes bugs easier 23.30.46 # static allocation means you always make room for everything you want to do -- you can never run out of memory. 23.30.50 # well you can clearly get a little more memory... 23.31.04 # no, that is an illusion 23.31.14 # if you can, you do it wrong now 23.31.57 # and what of all this dynamic memory allocation in other projects? 23.32.08 # dynamic allocation means you're never really certain where the limit is. 23.32.12 # And I can see some uses of it. 23.32.26 # in big n-dimensional arrays for example. 23.32.28 # becaust most other projects live on PCs with virtual memory and disk swapping 23.32.32 # XavierGr: do you much embedded programming with limited ram? 23.33.06 # you have gigabytes of ram and blazing disk speeds on any regular PC 23.33.14 # I am hardly a programmer what do you expect. I just express my thoughts and experiances. 23.33.41 # Bagder: we'll need a more proper malloc for codecs, i can't see how we'll be totally rid of it 23.33.44 # besides, most programmers are sloppy and MANY programs are written badly 23.34.00 # preglow: I realize that 23.34.20 # well, we only need it because we don't want to modify the codecs to not need it :-) 23.34.38 # LinusN has tested our malloc code in a "real" project so I'm quite sure we can get a functional malloc added once we feel like it 23.34.59 # Bagder: a better one should be a quick deal 23.35.08 # Bagder: the one we have now doesn't even support free 23.35.16 # Bagder: rockbox has a proper malloc?? 23.35.27 # no, I meant the one that is actually a true malloc 23.35.47 # okies 23.35.53 # http://daniel.haxx.se/projects/dbestfit/ 23.36.10 # but yeah, nothing great, just enough that we don't have enough buffer for a long consecutive streak of one codec that does some mallocs and free 23.36.13 # like flac 23.36.49 # Hmm, I'd prefer to not introduce malloc, but rather change the codecs if at all possible 23.37.54 # Vorbis has memory problems too, but I don't think malloc would help there... 23.38.20 # Imho malloc without mmu is good for headaches 23.38.42 # i agree with amiconn.. 23.38.46 # faad does malloc all over the place :< 23.38.58 # have yet to get it to run far enough to hit any, though 23.39.13 # it's pretty strange that such performance-intensive code is so sloppy with its' memory handling 23.39.23 # but quite common 23.40.02 # Although I'm not a codec expert, but I would think such type of code wouldn't need dynamic memory at all 23.40.25 # well, faad2 at least was obviously designed without thinking of such things 23.40.28 # I mean it's not like codecs suddenly need heaploads of ram 23.40.34 # so while it's not necessary, they're used it all over the place because it makes things easier 23.40.41 # They work on frames and spit out samples 23.41.02 # It should be simple to allocate the buffers to do that statically 23.41.37 # Or at least alloc some stuff initially, and not anything more after that... 23.42.26 # Allocating and deallocating all the time just causes overhead 23.43.39 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4/undefined]") 23.44.20 # I wonder about the rule to keep the changes to the codecs to a minimum. Imho there are already so many changes that this rule won't help anything anymore 23.44.29 # I agree 23.44.45 # we came up with that before we realized that the codecs are all messed up 23.44.55 # (emac routines, variables in iram, some mallocs already removed...) 23.44.57 Quit ansivirus ("Leaving") 23.45.06 # we thought they were better than what they actually are 23.46.28 # I don't see a real problem with changing the codec libraries significantly. faad seems to be the only one that is still actively developed. 23.46.35 # Everything else is pretty static. 23.46.53 # yes, it seems we mostly agree on this 23.46.58 # the faad changes are irrelevant anyway 23.47.01 # given the license 23.47.42 # The real problem is that it is a tedious job to strip them out of the codecs. 23.47.43 # i think tremor has memory leaks as it is 23.47.48 # very tedious 23.47.56 # especially since there some times isn't a clear upper limit to the malloc 23.49.16 # Yes - some codecs seem to support theoretically large limits. But in practice, only a small range of values are used. That kind of thing isn't obvious. 23.49.22 # tremor is like that 23.49.34 # vorbis is designed to allow vast changes in the encoder 23.49.37 # * Bagder goes to sleep 23.49.42 # which might suddenly quire different memory requirements 23.49.46 # Bagder: nitey 23.51.56 # amiconn: yes, merging a new codec version is most definitely going to be manual work as it is 23.52.16 # There are some things like seek tables which are not that easy to define a maximum size for though. What do we say is the maximum duration of file Rockbox will support? 23.52.23 # and metadata 23.52.46 # i wouldn't like a defined maximum duration unless it is very large 23.52.58 # in which case we might as well do it dynamically anyway 23.53.03 # I guess FAT32 gives us some limits. 23.53.05 # linuxstb: Theoretically rockbox can support files with up to 2^31-1 milliseconds playtime 23.53.16 # (before the 32 bit playtime calculation overflows) 23.53.28 # ...provided the file is no larger than 2GB 23.53.47 # but getting rid of all mallocs is just not going to happen 23.53.50 # at least i'm not going to do it :> 23.54.04 # It can be an aim though. 23.54.25 # sure 23.54.33 # it already is 23.55.03 # That'd be 24 days 20 h 31 min 23 s ... 23.55.46 # What bitrate is that for a 2GB file? 23.55.47 # Not very likely to fit that into 2GB ;) 23.56.39 # Seed: awake? 23.57.41 # linuxstb: In fact it would be possible: 8 kbps 23.57.46 # the only good thing i can say about musepack currently is that they don't malloc :/ 23.58.00 # and they make up for that by having the static decoder struct being a behemoth 23.58.16 # amiconn: so we WILL have problems when we get speex files ;) 23.58.32 # support, even 23.58.51 # 7,8125023574109783406900077905157, to be exact. 23.58.54 # preglow: You think someone could speak non-stop for more than 24 days? ;)