--- Log for 30.09.105  Server: clarke.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 14 hours and 58 minutes ago

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01.22.40 #       <rasher> XavierGr: Does your "fm preset file loading" patch ignore lines preceded by #?
01.26.07 #       <XavierGr> in the presets?
01.26.56 #       <XavierGr> because I havn'e changed anything in the way that the presets are saved inside a file.
01.27.12 #       <rasher> Ah
01.27.18 #       <rasher> Do you know if comments are allowed?
01.27.30 #       <XavierGr> I think not, let me check
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01.28.02 #       <Mirthoneist> Hey BirdFish, you there?
01.28.30 #       <XavierGr> no rasher I don't think so.
01.28.44 #       <rasher> Okay. Oh well, nevermind.
01.28.50 Nick    TiMiD[zzzZZ] is now known as TiMiD (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net)
01.28.52 #       <rasher> (shouldn't be too hard to add anyway)
01.29.00 #       <TiMiD> hi
01.29.13 #       <XavierGr> what do you want to do?
01.29.33 #       <rasher> I'm just writing a script to scrape presets from the wikipage into a zip file
01.29.59 #       <XavierGr> and what the # has to do with it?
01.30.03 #       <rasher> and I wanted to add whichever comments were on the page (author, notes etc.) into the file
01.30.15 #       <XavierGr> oh
01.30.34 #       <rasher> It should be a 2 line patch to wherever presets are loaded
01.30.37 #       <Mirthoneist> Off topic of Rockbox, but does anybody know if I burn files, normally found on a CD, using Nero, would it boot like a normal CD?
01.30.49 #       <rasher> if (line[0] == '#') continue;
01.30.53 #       <rasher> that's one line, really.
01.31.04 #       <XavierGr> you want me to add it?
01.31.29 #       <XavierGr> because it reads per line not per character?
01.31.44 #       <rasher> oh don't know
01.32.04 #       <rasher> I was just assuming it used the readline function
01.32.19 #       <XavierGr> yes that the function
01.33.32 #       <XavierGr> http://pastebin.com/378270
01.33.40 #       <XavierGr> here is the saving routine
01.34.09 #       <rasher> well, the comments will just be gone if you change the file
01.34.24 #       <XavierGr> yeah
01.34.51 #       <rasher> It's mostly just to keep the notes from the wiki
01.37.44 #       <XavierGr> to keep or it is tiresome to delete all this notes before making the script?
01.40.50 #       <Mirthoneist> You guys working on Rockbox?
01.41.01 #       <XavierGr> yes
01.43.51 #       <rasher> XavierGr: Neither, really
01.44.00 #       <rasher> XavierGr: I could just make the script strip the comments
01.44.14 #       <rasher> I just thought it'd be a nice touch if the files included the comments
01.44.30 #       <XavierGr> I don't think it matters so much...
01.45.44 Join    JoeBorn [0] (n=jborn@dsl017-022-247.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
01.45.58 #       <linuxstb_> Rasher:How about putting all the comments in a seperate text file in the zip file ?
01.46.07 #       <XavierGr> hey rasher do you know why the devs chose to make all the files that need loading in boot (font, lang, wps) 20 character long?
01.46.21 #       <rasher> linuxstb_: I guess that'd work
01.46.38 #       <XavierGr> I mean 20 * 5 = 100
01.46.48 #       <XavierGr> 260 * 5 = 1300
01.47.15 #       <XavierGr> it is not so memory waste! 
01.47.17 #       <linuxstb_> XavierGr: I think it's because So they fit in the 512-byte config sector.
01.47.36 #       <XavierGr> ahh the hole config file is in that sector?
01.47.45 #       <linuxstb_> Yep.
01.48.19 #       <XavierGr> that's why they use the set_file and they strip the path and extension...
01.48.48 #       <XavierGr> it could be super to load and remember any file from every where though.
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02.37.02 #       <XavierGr> TiMiD[zZZ] how does your patch going?
02.37.10 #       <XavierGr> If you are awake?
02.46.52 #       * preglow discovers the exciting world of snes emulators on xbox
02.48.05 #       <rasher> I guess we just lost a valuable developer then.
02.48.17 #       <XavierGr> haha
02.48.28 #       <XavierGr> maybe he will try to port that on rockbox
02.49.40 #       * linuxstb_ summons preglow back to remove mallocs from FLAC
02.49.43 #       <preglow> anyone know if mono streams have been tested with the playback/dsp engines?
02.49.58 #       <linuxstb_> I haven't tested any.
02.54.08 #       <XavierGr> whats a dsp?
02.54.15 #       <XavierGr> I keep hearing about it
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02.56.58 #       <preglow> digital signal processing
02.57.35 #       <preglow> in rockbox it's the part that's responsble for converting all audio to the common internal format, dithering, resampling, ec
02.59.26 #       <XavierGr> so even wave needs to be converted?
02.59.52 #       <linuxstb_> If it isn't 44.1KHz or 16-bit.
03.00.19 #       <XavierGr> (44.1 or 16) or (44.1 and 16)?
03.00.45 #       <linuxstb_> not(44.1 and 16)
03.00.56 #       <XavierGr> ah not
03.01.23 #       <XavierGr> so any other sampling rate doesn't need converting? stange
03.01.27 #       <XavierGr> ^strange
03.01.58 #       <ze> if ((khz != 44.1) || (bits != 16)) convert();
03.02.06 #       <ze> :p
03.02.22 #       <rasher> Everything but 44.1KHz, 16-bit needs converting.
03.02.59 #       <XavierGr> if(radio_get_status() == 0 || radio_get_status == 1)
03.03.04 #       <XavierGr> is this expression wrong?
03.03.14 #       <rasher> radio_get_status
03.03.19 #       <rasher> I assume you mean radio_get_status()
03.03.25 #       <XavierGr> yes
03.03.29 #       <rasher> But.. wouldn't that always be true?
03.03.40 #       <XavierGr> I want to enter the "if" if it is 1 or 0
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03.03.44 #       <rasher> or is there a 2?
03.03.54 #       <XavierGr> there is a 2 too! :p
03.03.57 #       <rasher> Ah
03.04.04 #       <linuxstb_> What are the possible range of values?  It looks bad to call the same function twice.
03.04.13 #       <XavierGr> 0,1,2
03.04.25 #       <linuxstb_> Test for != 2
03.04.29 #       <rasher> if (radio_get_status() != 2
03.04.35 #       <XavierGr> you say then call it first save it to a value and then compare?
03.04.46 #       <XavierGr> oops I am an idiot!
03.05.12 #       <XavierGr> it is so obvious oh my god, where are my programming skills!
03.05.26 #       <linuxstb_> But yes - if there was a large range of values, I would save the return value to a variable, and then test that variable.
03.05.40 #       <XavierGr> thank you very much
03.09.18 #       <XavierGr> Hmm loading and saving to presets works almost perfect.
03.12.16 #       <XavierGr> I will try to solve that pop whenever someone leaves the radio (while playing) and then returns
03.12.48 #       <rasher> Wasn't that fixed?
03.12.53 #       <rasher> or was it just identified
03.13.04 #       <XavierGr> I said it to Linus the other day.
03.13.15 #       <XavierGr> I think I know what is causing it.
03.13.31 #       <XavierGr> the radio_screen() sets the radio on
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03.13.52 #       <XavierGr> but every time this function is called the boot of the radio appears too.
03.14.32 #       <XavierGr> so I will put an if statement where it calls radio_get_status to see if the radio is already started.
03.27.01 #       <XavierGr> no I was wrong it wasn't that! Though it must be it!
03.27.24 #       <rasher> amiconn said he knew why it happened
03.29.27 #       <XavierGr> #if CONFIG_CODEC != SWCODEC
03.29.31 #       <XavierGr> that is !iriver?
03.30.14 #       <preglow> hmm
03.30.31 #       <preglow> i'm starting to wish i could specify shift factor and sample size independently
03.32.47 #       <preglow> wavpack passes even 8 bit samples in longs
03.33.41 Join    random_man [0] (n=d1ced0b1@labb.contactor.se)
03.34.48 #       <random_man> hello i have a small problem with Compiling  Rockbox. yes i know there is a simpalifed post out there and i am reading that but this problem is not in there 
03.35.34 #       <preglow> bed now, later
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03.36.12 #       <rasher> random_man: speak
03.36.21 #       <rasher> What's the problem?
03.39.08 #       <random_man> sorry 
03.39.17 #       <random_man> well i did a work around but wondering why it does this
03.39.55 #       <random_man> i go to download the daily build source code and my screen justs sits there adter i hit enter after it prompts me to input password
03.41.22 #       <rasher> Where's this? What prompts you to input password?
03.41.48 #       <random_man> uhh on cvs screen hold on ill type it 
03.42.29 #       <rasher> Ah, cvs login?
03.42.47 #       <random_man> uhh oh i was sopposed to type the 2 commands. i thougth you were sopposed to type 1 of the 2 commands
03.42.53 #       <rasher> Ah, no
03.43.05 #       <rasher> first the login one (which doesn't produce any output), then the other one
03.43.28 #       <random_man> yeah 
03.43.37 #       <random_man> but i am having a problem now 
03.43.52 #       <rasher> What's up?
03.44.20 #       <XavierGr> to get the cvs you need to type into the shell:
03.44.24 #       <random_man>  Now, type daily filename.tar.gz, where filename is the name of the file... obviously
03.44.24 #       <XavierGr> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@www.rockbox.org:/cvsroot/rockbox co rockbox-devel
03.44.43 #       <random_man> i type that (yes the actually file name) and it says error 
03.44.53 #       <rasher> Which error?
03.44.55 #       <XavierGr> type what I said and tell us if you can get all the source
03.45.56 #       <random_man> ok just a min
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03.47.40 #       <random_man> ok its working now
03.52.54 #       <random_man> i should read all of this. i have a habit of not reading everything
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04.20.31 #       <XavierGr> Found it! Now radio will not pop when entering again!
04.21.48 #       <BirdFish> If you don't mind my asking, is it generally accepted that there will be an iaudio x5 port?
04.22.02 #       <BirdFish> I wasn't sure how everything was going with that whole situation.
04.22.21 #       <rasher> It's hard to tell
04.22.34 #       <BirdFish> So the project could go down at any time then?
04.22.37 #       <rasher> There was only one developer working on this, and we haven't heard from him for close to two months
04.22.47 #       <BirdFish> Oh, I see
04.23.16 #       <BirdFish> What languages are generally used when creating firmware?
04.23.25 #       <rasher> C
04.23.27 #       <BirdFish> Ah
04.23.42 #       <BirdFish> I'm in the process of learning VB.net rigth now
04.23.53 #       <BirdFish> So I guess I couldn't be of any help there
04.23.54 #       <rasher> And for low-level things, assembly language of whatever the device uses
04.24.00 #       <fuzzie> combined with liberal amounts of architecture-specific assembler
04.24.06 #       <fuzzie> not something for beginners :-)
04.24.10 #       <BirdFish> :D
04.24.36 #       <XavierGr> BirdFish if you learn good VB you are a step closer to  programming
04.24.46 #       <XavierGr> It is the preogramming mind that matters
04.24.58 #       <XavierGr> Then you could jump to C far more easily
04.25.25 #       <BirdFish> So which would you guys probably recommend? The iRiver H3xx or the IAudio X5? (with and without concerns for Rockbox) Because I'm definitely not happy at all with my H10 :/
04.25.36 #       <BirdFish> XavierGr: that's what I plan to do
04.25.39 #       <BirdFish> :)
04.26.04 #       <XavierGr> well I think that iAudio is a little better though I have never used it.
04.26.15 #       <XavierGr> I have never used H300 but I have an H100
04.26.58 #       <BirdFish> I've looked at those also. But for $400 bucks, I think I probably want a color screen (though I'll most likely never use it for videos or pictures)
04.26.58 #       <XavierGr> If you ask me I would take and H300 only for the suspicion that it might run rockbox
04.27.21 #       <rasher> H300 port is quite a lot more certain than X5
04.27.27 #       <random_man> ok i have another probme for compiling my own rockbock could someone help? 
04.27.46 #       <XavierGr> Oh and for the VB matter I was just like you. I learned VB6 and then started for a little C.
04.27.49 #       <rasher> random_man: probably, just ask your question - don't ask to ask
04.27.58 #       <BirdFish> Also, I was wondering what was so special about rockbox (right now I'm interested because I like to customize my stuff and rebel against companies) But what does Rockbox really do for the player?
04.28.13 #       <random_man> when i go to add a patch i get an error 
04.28.17 #       <XavierGr> Now that I program a little for Rockbox I must say I have extend my knowledge in C
04.28.20 Join    amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD6D79.dip.t-dialin.net)
04.28.31 #       <XavierGr> hi amiconn!
04.28.41 #       <random_man> i type  Type the command patch -p0 < patchfilename --binary and i get a missing error
04.28.45 #       <XavierGr> BirdFish: Many things!
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04.29.00 #       <BirdFish> XavierGr: :) Elaborate a little bit please :)
04.29.02 #       <rasher> random_man: the --binary should go after patch
04.29.24 #       <random_man> i type patch -p0 < fm-screen-remote.patch --binary
04.29.34 #       <XavierGr> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FeatureComparison
04.29.35 #       <random_man> and get.....just a min
04.29.41 #       <XavierGr> there you can see many differences
04.29.57 #       <random_man> missing header for unified diff at line 3 of patch cant fid file to patch at input line 3
04.30.13 #       <XavierGr> try another -p lets say -p1
04.30.23 #       <random_man> did that and even 5
04.30.33 #       <XavierGr> oh
04.30.45 #       <rasher> --binary shouldn't go after the <
04.30.56 #       <BirdFish> Battery Lifetime is definitely a plus. You'd say it was very much so noticeable, or just statistics?
04.31.00 #       <XavierGr> does it need the binary
04.31.04 #       <XavierGr> try without it
04.31.29 #       <random_man> i dont know 
04.31.59 #       <XavierGr> On the archos it is, but I am not sure for iriver
04.32.20 #       <random_man> so type  i type patch -p0 < fm-screen-remote.patch
04.32.20 #       <XavierGr> it is sure the same though
04.32.51 #       <XavierGr> I never tend to watch the battery I have changed it with one for 24 hours of music
04.33.28 #       <XavierGr> amiconn: I just solved the poping of the radio when someone re-enters the FM screen.
04.33.38 #       <XavierGr> I suppose this error is iriver specific?
04.33.50 #       <XavierGr> or can the archos leave ths screen too?
04.34.26 #       <rasher> I'm sure it acn
04.34.28 #       <rasher> can
04.34.51 #       <BirdFish> ReplayGain is nice too
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04.38.51 #       <XavierGr> Ok that was a productive day. Time to sleep. It is 5.40 am here!!!
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05.39.16 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Does the tag database have to rebuild entirely every time, or does it have a switch of some sort that lets you update it?
05.46.53 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Hrm... the TagDatabase generated with the .jar is... well... very incorrect.
05.48.42 #       <k-man> is there a list of known hardware rockbox runs on somewhere?
05.50.06 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart
05.50.10 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Not really just a list
05.50.37 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> But the information seems mostly there
05.53.11 #       <k-man> thanks
06.15.34 #       <k-man> so whats the cheapest hardware one can run rockbox on?
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06.19.35 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Hrm
06.19.53 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> That's a tough one, because generally speaking you're going to be looking for it on ebay.
06.20.24 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> I mean, what do you want it for?
06.24.03 #       <k-man> to record live audio
06.25.51 #       <k-man> and i wouldn't be recording a huge amount of audio either
06.25.58 #       <k-man> just 5-10 minutes max
06.30.04 Join    LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se)
06.34.06 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Hrm
06.34.14 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> I seem to recall hearing the OndioFM supports recording.
06.34.29 #       <LinusN> yes
06.34.54 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Linus, you're more likely to know this
06.35.03 #       <Paul_the_Nerd> Cheapest Rockbox platform that supports recording?
06.35.12 #       * Paul_the_Nerd has no idea about Archos prices.
06.35.39 #       <LinusN> i think ondio might be cheaper, but they are not as common
06.35.51 #       <LinusN> the plain Recorder 20 is probably the cheapest
06.36.07 #       <LinusN> search ebay
06.37.24 #       <k-man> and that has mic?
06.37.33 #       <k-man> thats the archos recorder 20?
06.38.02 #       <k-man> damn, no one sells the archos recorder in Australia 
06.38.05 #       <k-man> *sigh*
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06.38.21 #       <LinusN> noone sells it anywhere
06.39.07 #       <LinusN> you have to buy used ones on places like ebay
06.40.23 #       <k-man> yeah
06.40.32 #       <k-man> i mean, no none sells used ones on ebay in australia
06.40.41 #       <k-man> i'll have to buy it internationaly
06.40.47 #       <LinusN> ah
06.41.17 #       <k-man> are you the Linus who does the development?
06.42.12 #       <LinusN> yes, i am the linus, but i'm far from the only one who develops rockbox
06.44.31 #       <k-man> cool
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07.57.03 #       <amiconn> mooning
07.57.23 #       <B4gder> guten morgen
07.57.30 #       <amiconn> :)
07.58.19 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Yesterday I tested how much of a slowdown this format conversion in lcd_blit() will cause on H1x0
07.58.30 #       <LinusN> tell me
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08.01.16 #       <amiconn> It was only around 4% at all 3 clock freqs
08.01.42 #       <amiconn> ...but it depends on whether the stack lies in iram or not
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08.02.19 #       <LinusN> figures
08.02.34 #       <amiconn> LinusN: For an isr, you can't tell which stack it uses, correct?
08.02.50 #       <LinusN> correct
08.02.55 #       <amiconn> Hmm...
08.03.21 #       <LinusN> you can of course change the stack pointer temporarily
08.03.27 #       <LinusN> a special isr stack
08.03.57 #       <amiconn> The conversion needs 2 buffers of 160 bytes (LCD_WIDTH)
08.04.05 #       <LinusN> with all the weird problems that goes with that (nested irq's etc)
08.04.46 #       <amiconn> There are 2 potential issues with that
08.05.14 #       <amiconn> (1) Depending which stack it uses, it will run slower or faster
08.05.35 #       <amiconn> main, codec and voice_codec stacks are in iram, the others are not
08.05.55 #       <amiconn> (2) The stack it uses may overflow...
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08.13.09 #       <amiconn> I could use static iram buffers, but I'm hesitant to set aside 320 bytes of iram just for lcd_blit()
08.15.41 #       <LinusN> no, that would perhaps not be economical
08.16.30 #       <LinusN> on the other hand, 320 bytes out of 96k of iram isn't a big deal
08.17.07 #       <LinusN> we could probably shrink one of the stacks by 320 bytes without any problem
08.24.00 #       <amiconn> It's 320 out of 48K
08.24.54 #       <amiconn> I'll leave it as it is for now, it's simple to change that later
08.26.11 #       <B4gder> they do have wild USB ideas in that Neuros camp ;-)
08.26.32 #       <Vladoman> but Ethernet I think would be nice
08.26.59 #       <B4gder> yes, lots of things could be nice
08.27.29 #       <Vladoman> depends on whether it will be "pure" rockbox or running on top of Linux
08.27.55 #       <B4gder> when considering ethernet etc, I would guess using linux will start making more sense
08.28.51 #       <LinusN> absolutely
08.29.00 #       <B4gder> I run linux 2.6.12 on a ARM920 at work
08.29.17 #       <Vladoman> what chip?
08.29.23 #       <B4gder> at91rm9200
08.29.33 #       <Vladoman> what does it do :-)
08.29.33 #       <B4gder> Atmel thing
08.29.36 #       <Vladoman> yep
08.29.57 #       <B4gder> we build an RFID "reader"
08.30.06 #       <Vladoman> OK
08.30.33 #       <Vladoman> no good on me, I wear my tin foil hat :-)
08.30.43 #       <B4gder> haha
08.30.59 #       * B4gder points his scanner in Vladoman's direction
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08.31.39 #       <Vladoman> if I knew how the IRC works i'd say something like "* Vladomann ducks away" :-(
08.31.51 #       <LinusN>  /me bla bla
08.31.59 #       * LinusN bla bla
08.32.07 #       * Vladoman understands
08.32.08 #       <B4gder> anyway, a full-fledged kernel is around 950Kb compressed
08.32.10 #       <LinusN> wee
08.41.31 #       <Vladoman> Oops, this NetChip2272 is a "peripheral" only, not a host, right?
08.41.37 #       <Vladoman> so no ehternet :-(
08.41.40 #       <Vladoman> ethernet
08.41.56 #       <B4gder> well, they were previously talking about a separate host chip
08.42.06 #       <B4gder> but I'm not sure where they stand on that now
08.42.24 #       <Vladoman> quote: The main reason we chose the NET2272 route is to enable other than direct-to-disk applications in high speed. Such applications include Janus (MTP), Ethernet-over-USB (RNDIS), fast serial as well as mass storage. 
08.42.39 #       <B4gder> ah
08.42.57 #       <B4gder> you found any details on that chip?
08.43.04 #       <Vladoman> oh, I get it, ethernet works by simulating a USB2Ethernet device, not by connecting one!
08.43.16 #       <Vladoman> http://www.plxtech.com/products/NET2000/NET2272/default.asp
08.43.24 #       <B4gder> thanks
08.43.29 #       <Vladoman> google did actually :-)
08.43.45 #       <B4gder> that google guy sure is friendly
08.48.13 #       <B4gder> "The NET2272 supports Microsoft?s Media Transfer Protocol
08.48.13 #       <B4gder> (MTP), which allows playback of WMA and WMV files with
08.48.13 #       <B4gder> Digital Rights Management (DRM)."
08.49.14 #       <LinusN> what a blessing
08.49.26 #       <B4gder> how can the USB chip do this?
08.49.38 #       <B4gder> but ok, I now nada about MTP
08.49.41 #       <B4gder> know
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09.02.58 #       <Vladoman> The USB chip does not do any DRM, it just allows to run any protocoll over it
09.03.15 #       <Vladoman> so, you can do MTP + Janus, not just MSC
09.04.34 #       <B4gder> right, I just found it weird that the chip datasheet says it supports MTP
09.04.54 #       <Vladoman> I guess they want that keyword to appear in the google index :-)
09.05.01 #       <Vladoman> marketingwise
09.05.07 #       <B4gder> yes, that's very probable
09.05.08 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Heh
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09.15.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> This is a purely hypothetical question. (I'm reading a few articles on Hymn/Playfair and it was just an odd thought I have.) Wouldn't it be possible to add support for encrypted m4ps on Rockbox? (At least for windows users.) You could write a utility that gets the key info and stores it into a file, which could then be copied to the player, then when an encrypted file runs, it could use a...
09.15.06 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> ...version of those algorithms to decode the file for playing, without writing a decrypted version. Again, not a feature request, since I'm not a big fan of DRM at all, but just sorta an odd thought I had.
09.16.15 #       <linuxstb_> Paul_The_Nerd: There's no point.  The user can (and should!) run hymn on their PC to permanently decrypt the files once.
09.16.27 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> As I said, just a random hypothetical
09.16.41 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I avoud iTunes like the plague personally.
09.16.53 #       <linuxstb_> I guess it's possible in theory, but IMO, there is no need to.
09.17.04 #       * Paul_The_Nerd agrees on the "no need to."
09.17.09 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> *avoid
09.17.50 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It'd definitely qualify as "feature bloat" anyway.
09.17.56 #       <linuxstb_> I did "buy" one file from the iTunes store the other day - partly for research purposes to see how it (and hymn) worked, and partly because it was an exclusive-to-itunes-store track by one of my favourite bands.
09.19.04 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> How much do lossless-format songs cost on iTunes? Or are they even available?
09.19.44 #       <linuxstb_> No - 128kbps AAC only.  In the UK it is 79p (about 1 EUR) per track.
09.21.03 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Ugh
09.21.07 #       <linuxstb_> The iTunes store makes it scarily easy to buy songs.  You register, enter your credit card details, and then just click on the "buy now" button next to a track.  You are then asked to confirm the purchase, and the track is then downloaded into your iTunes library.
09.21.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> See, I just can't stand not having a lossless version of my music
09.21.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'm even very wary about buying CDs now because of all these issues people have had with the way a lot of newer albums are mastered.
09.21.45 #       <linuxstb_> The scary thing is that you can disable the "confirm purchase" dialog - so pressing the "buy now" is equivalent to a download link.
09.22.57 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Wow
09.23.08 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I can see a lot of people easily spending a lot of money there
09.23.12 #       <linuxstb_> And all of this is within iTunes, not your web browser.
09.25.23 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> If you have confirm disabled, you could accidentally spend money.. that kinda sucks.
09.26.16 #       <B4gder> yes, it sucks your money ;-)
09.26.19 #       <linuxstb_> Exactly.  And the worse thing is that you can only download each file once.  If you accidentally delete the file, you have to buy it again.
09.26.30 #       <B4gder> wow
09.26.45 #       <linuxstb_> Apple's support site has a useful guide to backups as part of the iTunes Store help.
09.26.50 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Apparently, that's imposed by the software though.
09.27.08 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> DVDJon has an alternative iTunes store interface.
09.27.19 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> That... doesn't encrypt them after downloading (since apparently that's client side)
09.27.27 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> And... seems to let you redownload purchases.
09.27.34 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> At least... so this page seems to claim.
09.27.51 #       <linuxstb_> That seems a big loophole in security if the encryption is done on the client.
09.28.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I would agree.
09.28.04 #       <linuxstb_> But it's been hacked anyway....
09.28.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But then, storing the decryption key permanently on the client is just as big, I'd say.
09.28.22 #       <LinusN> one-click-shopping...so they have a deal with amazon :-)
09.28.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Hehehe
09.28.46 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Of course LinusN.
09.28.50 #       <linuxstb_> How can you have DRM if the decryption key isn't permanently on the client?
09.28.57 #       * LinusN wants to patent 2, 3, and 4-click shopping
09.29.13 #       * linuxstb_ wants to patent 0-click shopping
09.29.17 #       <LinusN> and infinite-click surfing
09.29.32 #       <B4gder> you can buy my "shop-before-you-click" patent
09.29.50 #       <linuxstb_> hehe
09.30.37 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I wonder if you could patent "User points to something in the store, which the clerk then retrieves"
09.31.24 #       <linuxstb_> Anyway, back to Rockbox, I've almost got a bootloader (compiled using the Rockbox build system and linked to rockbox.a) running on the iPod.  
09.32.18 #       <B4gder> rocking!
09.32.42 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Neat
09.33.01 #       <linuxstb_> Once I squash the last bug, I can then start on the drivers.  LCD and buttons should be relatively easy, and then the ATA.
09.33.20 #       <B4gder> you on top of your lcd then?
09.33.25 #       * Paul_The_Nerd points to his talking about the ITMS DRM decryption idea.
09.33.41 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> You could actually have a method to sync with iTunes on the iPod port with something like that, couldn't you?
09.33.55 #       <B4gder> I mean, wasn't that still not really figured-out?
09.33.57 #       <linuxstb_> B4gder:  Not exactly.  But I've worked out how I can write to the part of the display the Apple flash firmware uses to display the Apple logo during startup.
09.34.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> And maybe convince "normal" itunes users that a better way exists..
09.34.04 #       <B4gder> aha
09.34.28 #       <linuxstb_> The problem with the new LCD is that the "set update region" commands are not the same.  But the protocol for actually sending data to the LCD is the same.
09.34.41 #       <B4gder> I see
09.34.50 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> That seems kinda odd.
09.34.51 #       <linuxstb_> So I can use the update region set by Apple's firmware - a 78x100 window in the middle of the display :)
09.34.58 #       <B4gder> hehehe
09.35.23 #       <linuxstb_> Hopefully the ipodlinux guys will sort it out.  In the meantime, I can at least continue with the other parts of the port.
09.35.46 #       <B4gder> you in contact with any ipl guys during your work on this?
09.36.01 #       <linuxstb_> I've had some brief chats on #ipodlinux.
09.36.31 #       <B4gder> ok, I was just curious
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09.36.51 #       <B4gder> I'm puzzled on their lack of devoloper community
09.36.57 #       <linuxstb_> But I haven't discussed Rockbox - just specific questions about the hardware.
09.37.33 #       <linuxstb_> I think it's just a lack of developers.  "leachbj" seems to be the only kernel hacker.
09.37.41 #       <k-man> B4gder,  who's lack of developer community?
09.37.53 #       <B4gder> k-man: ipodlinux
09.37.58 #       <k-man> oh
09.38.22 #       <linuxstb_> Putting Linux into the equation makes it even harder to find low-level hackers who can make things happen.
09.38.29 #       <B4gder> yes
09.38.52 #       <B4gder> linux is quite lines of source to figure out ;-)
09.38.59 #       <B4gder> "quite a few"
09.41.24 #       <linuxstb_> How far would you want me to get before I start committing patches?  I'm in no rush, just curious.
09.41.49 #       <B4gder> in my view, you could commit already
09.41.57 #       <linuxstb_> I want someone else to take the target #13 slot first :)
09.42.04 #       <B4gder> haha
09.42.13 #       <B4gder> I don't see that happen anytime soon
09.42.35 #       <B4gder> you could easily take 20 or so ;-)
09.42.49 #       <linuxstb_> OK, once I get the bootloader working, I'll clean things up and start committing.
09.43.16 #       <B4gder> I've put my order on hold for a little while longer, due to personal stuff and general work load
09.43.23 #       <B4gder> but I hope to get one later on
09.43.57 #       <linuxstb_> No problem.  I'm happy to keep going. 
09.44.29 #       <k-man> one what?
09.44.34 #       <B4gder> ipod
09.44.53 #       <B4gder> k-man: linuxstb_ works on rockbox for ipod
09.45.43 #       <k-man> oh
09.45.44 #       <k-man> i see
09.45.45 #       <k-man> cool
09.53.03 #       <k-man> did i read somewhere about a project for an open hardware mp3/media player?
09.54.20 #       <B4gder> neuros?
09.57.26 #       <k-man> yeah
09.57.29 #       <k-man> that might have been it
09.58.15 #       <k-man> oh geez, its not cheap
09.58.20 #       <k-man> oh well
09.58.56 #       <B4gder> well, the current discussions are for their upcoming models
09.59.07 #       <B4gder> but I don't think they'll be cheap either ;-)
10.02.02 #       * Paul_The_Nerd kinda wishes more devices were like computers: There's a standard, and I can easily replace any parts I feel like.
10.02.18 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I mean, there's clearly not just one standard among personal computers
10.02.22 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But there's few enough.
10.04.55 #       <ze> Paul_The_Nerd: mp3 players are like the opposite extreme... they seem to be generally considered unservicable for the most part, and afaict standard waranty/service-plan practice is just replacement
10.05.16 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I know, it drives me nuts.
10.05.27 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> At least with *some* of them you can effectively replace an HD.
10.05.42 #       <B4gder> and they sell just like TVs or VCRs, nobody cares about the SW in them
10.07.55 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I don't care about it in my TV, because there's really not much going on in there.
10.08.07 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But say, my set top cable box... I'd like to have some more freedom there. =/
10.08.24 #       <HCl> whats a set top cable box?
10.10.20 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Cable Jack on wall -> Cable box (upon which channel guide information is parsed, and which you use to change channels etc) -> Television.
10.11.21 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It also decrypts the signal.
10.19.14 #       <HCl> ah
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10.19.19 #       <HCl> what would you want to modify about it?
10.20.11 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Well, the program guide is fairly limited.
10.20.21 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It presents a list, and I can flag a program to remind me to change channels
10.21.44 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It'd be nice to have some customization options for the whole thing. Maybe the ability to remove channels that I will never watch from the main list, or at least list them after my favorites, as opposed to only listing in numerical order.
10.22.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Things that more complex boxes do, but mine from a hardware perspective probably isn't incapable of.
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10.22.33 #       <_FireFly_> hiho
10.22.54 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I don't really feel the need for a PVR system. But it'd be nice to have some flexibility within the bounds of being able to tell what shows are on.
10.22.58 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> 'alo FireFly
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10.28.13 #       <HCl> aha o-o
10.28.23 #       <HCl> well thats more luxery than me, i suppose :p
10.29.39 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I suppose so.
10.31.33 #       <k-man> so will rockbox ever be able to run on the small flash iriver players?
10.32.06 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> From what I understand such things aren't necessarily planned. They depend on the right people having the interest in it.
10.32.31 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> As it is, it looks like they've made some headway into decrypting the firmware, but it's not even really in the realm of "likely" that there'll be a build for it at some point.
10.32.36 #       * Paul_The_Nerd doesn't know *that* much though.
10.33.07 #       <B4gder> k-man: if enough (skilled) people work on it, then sure why not
10.33.36 #       <k-man> oh
10.33.37 #       <k-man> ok
10.33.50 #       <k-man> i wish i had the time to work on something like that
10.33.53 #       <k-man> oh well
10.36.02 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'll be happy when pretty much any software codec flash player is supported.
10.37.49 #       <LinusN> the problem is that most flash players are built on proprietary chipsets
10.40.01 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Aye
10.40.37 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> That's why I'm kinda excited by the iPod port even though the HD players don't interest me much.
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10.45.15 #       <amiconn> LinusN: I did some more measurements. (1) With intermediate buffers in iram, I'm down to 2% slowdown :)
10.45.43 #       <amiconn> (2) Intermediate buffers in dram mean ~ 75% slowdown....
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10.58.25 #       <LinusN> amiconn: wow!
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11.05.26 #       <ep0ch> i'm really really really ****ed off, me thinks my IHP's HD has died :( it is a sad sad day. boo hoo.
11.06.33 #       <ep0ch> does anyone have any spare 20 gig drives i can take off you?
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11.08.57 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'll have one as soon as the MK4007GAL is purchaseable.
11.09.15 #       <ep0ch> oh hang on, i've wacked the player a few times and its booted up
11.09.19 #       <ep0ch> :s
11.09.26 #       <ep0ch> time to backup my tunes while i can
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11.10.05 #       <ep0ch>  MK4007GAL? that a single platter 40gig?
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11.10.41 #       <B4gder> an advice: never use a DAP as the primary storage of anything
11.10.50 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Yep
11.10.57 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Single platter 40
11.11.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It's out in some players now, but only the Toshiba brand ones, I hear.
11.11.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Toshibal claimed that the perpendicular technology would allow *at least* double data density, so that implied a 60 gig at *some* point.
11.11.50 #       <ep0ch> any idea when the 40 gig might be available?
11.11.55 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> No clue
11.12.17 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It exists physically, but the only option for acquiring one as far as I know is purchasing certain other players and gutting them. Hardly cost effective.
11.12.25 #       <ep0ch> no no no CRC error, grrr
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11.20.11 #       <ep0ch> hmm the 30gb one is tempting at £81
11.20.23 #       <ep0ch> oh no 95 inc vat :(
11.20.37 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'm waiting for at least 40gb.
11.20.45 #       <ep0ch> i hear ya :)
11.20.50 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'm going to reserve 10gb for applications anyway.
11.21.09 #       <ep0ch> yeah? what kind of applications?
11.21.18 #       <ep0ch> like, Word?
11.21.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> A variety of things. Most of them are relatively small. Miranda, stuff like that.
11.21.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Word? Ew... openoffice
11.21.45 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Installation binaries for Linux, Windows and OSX.
11.21.53 #       <ep0ch> hehe, yeah sorry Word was the first thing that came to mind
11.22.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> IDEs and compilers of various sorts.
11.22.09 #       <ep0ch> openoffice is very good
11.22.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Basically, all the tools that I like to have readily available.
11.22.19 #       <ep0ch> cool
11.22.27 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> 10gb is way too much for just that
11.22.39 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But it's also for backups of my writing, projects, etc.
11.22.44 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It's more of "10gb for non-music data"
11.22.52 #       <ep0ch> :)
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11.23.01 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Indeed
11.23.16 #       <ep0ch> i use a 1gb pen drive for that
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11.24.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I think my current data size that I'd want is about 1.3-1.4gb
11.24.13 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But that's like, bare minimum
11.24.18 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> That's data, not applications or anything else.
11.25.59 #       <ep0ch> ok I think just one area of my HD is knackered, besides fscking it, is there anything else i could do to help repair it?
11.26.43 #       <ep0ch> clean format comes to mind
11.27.54 #       * Paul_The_Nerd shrugs.
11.28.08 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> There's a whole world of disk scanning and "repairing" utilities out there, I imagine.
11.28.23 #       * Paul_The_Nerd doesn't have a lot of experience with HD failure of the non "it's melting" sort.
11.28.35 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> When my hardware fails, it's very good at doing it in generally spectacular ways.
11.29.04 #       <ep0ch> heh
11.29.43 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
11.34.29 #       <_FireFly_> now my remote-patch isn't dependig on patches to applied first :)
11.35.31 #       <_FireFly_> and it inclueds all additional remote-patches which i have made after it
11.43.03 #       * Paul_The_Nerd cheers
11.51.50 #       <_FireFly_> now i think i can it post to the tracker
11.58.33 #       <_FireFly_> bagder do you here??
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12.13.39 #       <_FireFly_> ups there was an bug in the fm-screen, remote control of volume didn't work
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12.26.04 #       <_FireFly_> hi preglow
12.27.49 #       <_FireFly_> bagder ??
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12.37.04 #       <_FireFly_> hi XavierGr
12.37.37 #       <XavierGr> Hello!
12.38.05 #       <B4gder> I'm here
12.38.06 #       <ep0ch> oh GCC 4.0.2 is out
12.39.46 #       <_FireFly_> B4gder you want say me an example where i can remove safely some of the #ifdefs in my patch...an updated version can be found in my forums-thread on forumsrockbox.org
12.39.54 #       <XavierGr> How often do they update it!?
12.40.07 #       <_FireFly_> ??
12.40.17 #       <XavierGr> I mean GCC!
12.40.23 #       <_FireFly_> oh
12.40.25 #       <B4gder> _FireFly_: for example, you can make a function of the "too big to fit" text
12.40.34 #       <ep0ch> no idea :)
12.40.41 #       <B4gder> and have that function defined to nothing on models without remote
12.41.40 #       <preglow> hi
12.41.52 #       <B4gder> although of course the best fix would be that all screens would fit
12.41.58 #       <B4gder> just allow scrolling or similar
12.42.18 #       <B4gder> howdy preglow
12.42.21 #       <_FireFly_> hmm
12.42.50 #       <B4gder> I'm asking you to use your imagination, I haven't solved all the issues in my head
12.43.12 #       <B4gder> in general we should strive to decrease the amount of #ifdefs in the code
12.43.26 #       <B4gder> imho
12.45.23 #       <_FireFly_> the text "too big to fit" is currently only an place-older in the debug-menu
12.46.36 #       <XavierGr> Have you thought that keeping the same code for all platforms will make the code humongous in future?
12.46.44 #       <_FireFly_> until someone makes the output fit on the remote
12.46.48 #       <B4gder> XavierGr: ?
12.47.39 #       <XavierGr> I mean I know the advantages of keeping the same code for all platforms, but in future when rockbox moves to many targets it will be a hell with #ifdefs!
12.47.48 #       <B4gder> XavierGr: no
12.47.55 #       <B4gder> just as I explaine
12.47.55 #       <B4gder> d
12.48.03 #       <B4gder> we should decrease the amount
12.48.18 #       <LinusN> having all #ifdefs in the code will be a problem, yes
12.48.20 #       <B4gder> by being clever
12.48.30 #       <LinusN> but there are other ways
12.48.51 #       <XavierGr> I think that the low level code must be programed in a such clever way
12.49.09 #       <B4gder> yes
12.49.20 #       <B4gder> and that's what I am saying
12.49.25 #       <XavierGr> So that when e.g tree.c comes to play, there will be no if defs
12.49.28 #       <B4gder> for example regarding the remote patch
12.49.46 #       <B4gder> well zero ifdefs might not be possible
12.49.53 #       <B4gder> but that's the aim of course
12.50.03 #       <XavierGr> yeah I know screen sizes and other factors
12.50.28 #       <XavierGr> But some parts of the code already contain a lot of ifdefs
12.50.36 #       <B4gder> yes
12.50.49 #       <B4gder> and?
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12.50.57 #       <B4gder> you feel like fixing? ;-)
12.51.16 #       <XavierGr> Nonono I am not so advanced in this, yet... :p
12.51.39 #       <B4gder> A general approach in Rockbox: do not do things for the future now, wait until we face the probem for real
12.52.13 #       <B4gder> we had many people saying we couldn't ever make rockbox on anything except archos
12.52.18 #       <B4gder> due to how the code worked
12.53.00 #       <XavierGr> Lazy type approach but yeah I know what you mean.
12.53.09 #       <B4gder> not lazy, reality-bound
12.53.16 #       <B4gder> :-)
12.53.21 #       <XavierGr> You could say that too.
12.53.42 #       <B4gder> it actually prevents us from doing stupid things now
12.53.45 #       <B4gder> that won't be used
12.53.58 #       <_FireFly_> with the widget system on which timid currently works, it would be easier wouldn't be ?
12.54.07 #       <LinusN> yes
12.54.21 #       <XavierGr> Oh Linus I nearly finished the load/save preset patch, and I found the cause of the pop bug when reentering FM screen. It should no longer pop now! 
12.54.33 #       <LinusN> \o/
12.55.47 #       <_FireFly_> and i said some days ago that my patch is only a kind of place-holder until the widget system is ready to get into rockbox
12.56.09 #       <XavierGr> Also I increased presets to 64. My city Heraklion in Crete (Greece) has 48 stations and has 200.000 citizens so...
12.58.18 #       <XavierGr> No I will set the Preset mode. Because searching presets is not so intuitive now. And Myabe I will add a Make new preset option, because if someone wants to make a new clean preset he will have to delete every preset and then save it to another file (spoiling the first file)
12.58.24 #       <XavierGr> no = now
12.59.56 #       <ep0ch> do you mean left/right will cycle through presets instead of inc/decrementing frequency?
13.00.12 #       <XavierGr> make a choice for it
13.00.15 #       <ep0ch> cool
13.00.27 #       <XavierGr> :)
13.00.57 #       <linuxstb> Does anyone have what is suggested to be the H300 LCD datasheet - e789r_101.pdf ?
13.01.02 #       <ep0ch> any chance it can be sorted by 'name' instead of frequency?
13.01.06 #       <ep0ch> (fm presets)
13.01.26 #       <linuxstb> It's missing from here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH3XXHardwareComponents#LCD_Display
13.01.50 #       <XavierGr> hmmm currently there is no sorting system in either way.
13.01.59 #       <XavierGr> name or frequency
13.02.13 #       <ep0ch> yeah i had to edit the file by hand :(
13.03.10 #       <B4gder> linuxstb: try this http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=124.0
13.03.15 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: are you also making the buttons consistant with the rest of rockbox?
13.03.30 #       <XavierGr> it could be tricky to implement. Also a new option would be needed because someone might wanted the way he wants.
13.03.52 #       <XavierGr> I haven't changed a single button yet.
13.04.21 #       <ep0ch> i have an outrageous idea, regarding rockbox and the radio...
13.05.28 #       <ep0ch> could we have a file extension that calls the radio? so I could have  a directory in root called 'Radio' and in there are radio files that contain the name and frequency of the stations
13.05.49 #       <XavierGr> yes it set to .fmr
13.05.57 #       <linuxstb> B4gder, That contains a link back to the Wiki page :)  That PDF doesn't seem to be in the Forum.
13.06.01 #       <ep0ch> ahh ok
13.06.02 #       <B4gder> oh
13.06.04 #       <B4gder> hehe, sorry
13.06.26 #       <XavierGr> BUT if you want a preset to be remembered after a boot you will have to store your presets to /.rockbox/presets/
13.06.37 #       <XavierGr> else in the next boot up it will be forgotten.
13.07.19 #       <XavierGr> But yeah currently when selecting a fmr file the radio will pop and load the preset. (and it will remember it untill you shut down)
13.07.55 #       <ep0ch> so i can have 20 fmr files each with an individual station
13.08.09 #       <XavierGr> yes
13.08.18 #       <ep0ch> but left and right would not cycle through each fmr file?
13.08.32 #       <ep0ch> like an mp3
13.08.37 #       <XavierGr> no I mean cycling the presets inside the preset file
13.09.03 #       <XavierGr> you have a filepreset with 40 stations and left/right cycles between those stations.
13.09.35 #       <XavierGr> I dont think what you mention as a good idea.
13.09.38 #       <ep0ch> hmm, any chance of if only one station is in the .fmr file then it will look at the next file?
13.09.57 #       <XavierGr> ehmm why have one station in a file?
13.10.08 #       <XavierGr> It could get too complex to do that
13.10.22 #       <XavierGr> Just select a different file.
13.10.39 #       <XavierGr> That's the normal and most intuitive way I have thought.
13.10.40 #       <ep0ch> basically, i don't like the idea of the radio being treated in a special way - having to go to the menu and selected FM Radio.
13.10.53 #       <ep0ch> it would be nice (for me) if the radio was treated like any other file
13.10.58 #       <ep0ch> but hey, that's just me :)
13.11.23 #       <ep0ch> do you understand what i mean?
13.11.23 #       <B4gder> you mean any other music file
13.11.26 #       <XavierGr> You don't have to do that. You can select your favorite preset file (inside or outside /.rockbox/presets) and the radio will load and pop up
13.12.03 #       <XavierGr> so there it is just selecting an mp3
13.12.09 #       <ep0ch> however
13.12.29 #       <XavierGr> yeah if you press right it will go to another station not another preset file
13.12.44 #       <XavierGr> but that's how a playlist works remember?
13.12.53 #       <XavierGr> an mp3 file is a single mp3.
13.13.09 #       <ep0ch> if i have 5 radio stations (FM1, FM2, etc), i want FM2, i would have to go to the .fmr file, which would load up FM1, and then navigate to FM2?
13.13.10 #       <XavierGr> But a playlist or a fmr file is a holder of many mp3s, stations
13.13.28 #       <ep0ch> no worries, i can live without it
13.13.38 #       <ep0ch> i'll shut up :D
13.13.50 #       <XavierGr> no I think that the radio remembers your last station.
13.13.55 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13.14.16 #       <ep0ch> what if next time i want FM5?
13.14.41 #       <XavierGr> I think that you ask too much!
13.14.59 #       <XavierGr> Ihave never heard such approach for the radio before.
13.15.00 #       <ep0ch> you think?
13.15.33 #       <ep0ch> exactly, i just think it would be consistent to have the fmr files treated like any other audio file
13.15.33 #       <XavierGr> So you say enable 3 modes? Frequency, preset and filepreset? Dont you think it is just too much?
13.16.04 #       <XavierGr> but an fmr file is to hold many stations,  not one.
13.16.45 #       <XavierGr> Others: Which is your opinion?
13.18.02 #       <linuxstb> A presets file is something you change very infrequently.  I think a simple load option on the menu is sufficient,
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13.18.36 #       <XavierGr> and save to be able to make one on the go.
13.18.47 #       <XavierGr> (As it is now on my patch)
13.18.54 #       <linuxstb> Yes, that would be useful.
13.19.24 #       <tucoz> Hi, sorry for jumping in to this. Was reading the logs. But imho, I think linuxstb idea of having a base menu will take care of some of the navigation issues in rockbox
13.19.27 #       <B4gder> btw, I love your Sudoku-plugin linuxstb
13.19.42 #       <linuxstb> B4gder, Thanks :).
13.19.49 #       <tucoz> me too, it is really fun
13.20.01 #       <ep0ch> base menu? is that like the feature request i made a while back?
13.20.01 #       <LinusN> it rocks
13.20.14 #       <linuxstb> tucoz, I'm starting to be less convinced about having a base menu, but I'm going to continue implementing a demo build.
13.20.19 #       <tucoz> hehe
13.20.49 #       <linuxstb> B4gder, Any luck getting your friend's Sudoku site to generate .ss files?
13.20.55 #       <B4gder> not yet
13.21.05 #       <LinusN> we're threatening him every day
13.21.12 #       <LinusN> but he's stubborn
13.21.23 #       <tucoz> But after all, it is a dap, and not a pc. I think it is a quite nice idea. Imagine having the base functions plus settings in that menu
13.21.25 #       <B4gder> he has a really nice "difficulty" level too
13.21.31 #       <ep0ch> linuxtsb: same as:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&group_id=44306&atid=439121&aid=1219252
13.21.32 #       <ep0ch> ?
13.21.38 #       <XavierGr> Guys: Do you think that it would be would to: In the fmr file add a last line (after the sations) that will hold the last preset position of the user?
13.21.42 #       <linuxstb> Someone should get the Rockbox Sudoku generating random games.  I've got other things I would prefer to do at the moment.
13.22.03 #       <XavierGr> That way when loading different fmr files it would jump automatically to the last preset position.
13.22.08 #       <tucoz> like, browse files, record, fm-radio, settings in the base menu
13.22.22 #       <linuxstb> ep0ch: Yes.
13.22.42 #       <ep0ch> cool,
13.23.58 #       <tucoz> I posted a link to a c implementation of a sudoku program with a generator in the PluginSudoku page on the wiki
13.24.45 #       <tucoz> I am not sure if it is easy to just steal that function though. Haven't really looked at the code yet. Just a glimpse
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13.25.24 #       <webguest50> I'm trying to save a cfg file with upside down screen, but it wont let me create it
13.25.36 #       <webguest50> or save it rather
13.26.28 #       <webguest50> anyone else have this problem?, or is it just me
13.26.40 #       <LinusN> hmmm
13.27.21 #       <LinusN> should work
13.27.25 #       <tucoz> linuxstb: what makes you rethink the idea of a base menu?
13.27.36 #       <LinusN> webguest50: which model?
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13.28.16 #       <webguest54> uggh sorry linus, its a H140
13.29.17 #       <LinusN> webguest54: i just tried, it works for me
13.29.43 #       <ep0ch> is it just me or is the 'quick menu' a bit annoying if you accidently hit 'shuffle', it shuffles immediately, and so  you have to change it back and it unshuffles immediately. IMHO actions should take place when you exit the quick menu.
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13.30.28 #       <webguest54> thanks, I'll try again
13.30.47 #       <tucoz> ep0ch: maybe not when you exit, but if that is a problem, perhaps a confirm should be in place
13.31.03 #       <tucoz> I do not use shuffle, so what do I know ;)
13.31.24 #       <ep0ch> i dont either, but i just hit it accidently every so often
13.31.25 #       <XavierGr> Like tucoz, I don't shuffle either
13.33.19 #       <tucoz> Might be a good idea to have stuff like shuffle with a confirm. The other options just sets a flag, right?
13.34.04 #       <ep0ch> that would slow down the quickness of the quick menu, why not just perform that action on exit?
13.34.05 #       <webguest54> is there any way I can display cfg files in root without having show files set to all ?
13.34.35 #       <tucoz> webguest54: not that I know of
13.34.49 #       <webguest54> hmm, thanks
13.35.14 #       <tucoz> if the configs are under /.rockbox/*.cfg then you can use browse config in the settings menu
13.35.31 #       <tucoz> ...and call the viewer I think
13.35.35 #       <ep0ch> can you associate the .cfg in viewers.config?
13.35.49 #       <linuxstb> tucoz: My initial idea was to simplify the Rockbox UI by making everything start from the main menu.  But I'm thinking that it will become too cumbersome to have to go through the menu.
13.35.49 #       <webguest54> yep, just trying to figure a short way to access cfg files
13.36.10 #       <linuxstb> But that can probably be solved with shortcuts.  I'll see how my prototype develops.
13.36.14 #       <ep0ch> linuxstb: let the user set a default screen?
13.36.22 #       <tucoz> linuxstb: ok, I'll look forward to testing it out.
13.37.02 #       <linuxstb> I want something that is easy for a new user to use (i.e. every feature available in nice menus), but also something that is quick to navigate for advanced users.
13.37.08 #       <tucoz> In my mind it sound better though. More intuitive at least
13.37.32 #       <tucoz> not "hmm, what button should I use for that". At least for beginners
13.37.50 #       <webguest54> why nit put quick access to cfg files in the 12 o'clock quick menu position ?
13.39.03 #       <LinusN> webguest54: everybody wants their favourite feature in the quick menu
13.39.05 #       <ep0ch> I believe Cassandra had something else in mind for the 12 oclock
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13.39.19 #       <ep0ch> heh, i wanted crossfade there :)
13.39.23 #       <webguest54> heh, I guess so, 
13.39.56 #       <webguest54> an option for an option to have it there :)
13.42.26 #       <amiconn> webguest54: .cfg files *are* visible in the root if you have set 'show files' to 'supported' (or 'all')
13.43.05 #       <amiconn> That's how I manage my various configurations - much faster than 'Show config files' in the mneu
13.43.47 #       * webguest54 tries
13.43.48 #       <markun> linuxstb: Instead of the root menu you could also have a menu that pops up (like the one in rockboy) to do the same.
13.44.55 #       <linuxstb> markun: I think Rockbox needs both.  My idea is that the root menu is the "home" - i.e. you always go back to it when leaving a screen.  So the WPS and browser screens for example are "on top of" the menu.  Not the other way around.
13.45.02 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: hmm, do you think the stack overflow error message is still working or was it that works only for codecs/plugins?
13.45.24 #       <markun> linuxstb: I know what your idea is. It was just another suggestion.
13.45.49 #       <linuxstb> OK, but that's not what I want :).
13.46.06 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: Stack overflow detection should work for all threads, but of course it can't be bullet-proof
13.46.47 #       <amiconn> Stack overflow means something gets overwritten, and rockbox might crash before being able to detect the overflow
13.46.54 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: i had a too deep recursion in the code (now completely removed) a day ago, but the system only crashed or displayed I00 or something like that (can't remember) but not the stkoflw
13.46.56 #       <markun> amiconn: Can you explain how stereo width works for values greater than 100?
13.47.29 #       <ep0ch> linuxstb: when rockbox starts up it will go to your root menu? Do you plan on adding an option so that on startup the user to default to 'browser mode', and from there he can left click to go to the root menu?
13.47.48 #       <ep0ch> s/to/can
13.48.26 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: ah, so it works only if the process can yield before it has used too much of the stack?
13.48.43 #       <linuxstb> ep0ch: What I'm planning is just to develop a prototype that makes the main menu the "root" of Rockbox.  What actually gets implemented will be the results of the subsequent discussions.
13.48.55 #       <ep0ch> :) ok 
13.49.25 #       <webguest54> ah supported works well, what is the purpose of the Rolo" feature?
13.51.10 #       <LinusN> to manually load and start a firmware binary
13.52.06 #       <webguest54> thanks, so there's no  harm if  I accidently acitvate it like I just have
13.53.49 #       <markun> Slasheri: Do you have a new version of the dir chache patch?
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13.54.36 #       <Slasheri> markun: i will put the new version online soon (maybe today or tomorrow)
13.54.51 #       <Slasheri> it's much better than the last one
13.55.35 #       <markun> Slasheri: Thanks! How much faster is the hd scanning?
13.56.06 #       <Slasheri> LinusN: or what do you think about committing that code soon? (with the option to skip caching at boot disabled)
13.56.18 #       <Slasheri> it's much faster
13.56.20 #       <markun> Now it takes about 8 seconds here I think.
13.56.21 #       <amiconn> markun: The stereo width formula is in firmware/sound.c, lines 432ff
13.56.25 #       <XavierGr> I think it is great slasheri!
13.57.21 #       <LinusN> Slasheri: gimme da patch
13.57.29 #       <LinusN> i want to try it first
13.57.43 #       <Slasheri> LinusN: ok, i will put it to the web soon :)
13.57.47 #       <amiconn> markun: The basic idea is simple. For stereo width <100%, the left signal is mixed partially into the right channel and vice versa
13.58.22 #       <amiconn> Full amplitude will yield mono of course
13.59.04 #       <amiconn> For stereo width >100%, the left signal is also partially mixed into the right channel and vice versa, but with inverse phase
14.00.05 #       <amiconn> Full amplitude will give a virtual stereo width of infinity, meaning the mono signal part is completely cancelled
14.00.12 #       <amiconn> That's what karaoke mode does
14.00.44 #       <markun> amiconn: ok, but what is the full amplitude? It's more than 200%?
14.01.19 #       <ep0ch> *** ok my iHPs HD is now officially dead, does anyone have a single platter HD I can buy from them? ***
14.02.39 #       <amiconn> markun: Of course the total amplitude has to be scaled down in order to avoid clipping
14.03.15 #       <amiconn> ...at least for widths <100%
14.03.27 #       <XavierGr> eP0ch: are you sure? what happened?
14.04.12 #       <ep0ch> well i've just about recovered most of tunes from it, so i now decided to do a full format on the drive...
14.04.14 #       <XavierGr> If you want to buy an HD for you H100 then try www.dapstore.com. I got my 60Gb HD from there and no worries.
14.04.27 #       <ep0ch> but the format is not going well
14.04.31 #       <amiconn> That's what the formula in sound.c does. Only thing to note is that the MAS mixer also inverts, so 100% is -1, not +1
14.04.32 #       <XavierGr> And it never got back?
14.04.47 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: thanks for the link i'll take a look
14.05.14 #       <markun> amiconn: I think I will give it a go. Some albums (Beck, Hendrix, Beatles) don't sound so good with headphones because of the extreme use of stereo.
14.10.39 #       <amiconn> Hehe. My standard stereo width setting for earphones is 120%...
14.10.53 #       <amiconn> (doesn't work on iriver yet)
14.14.30 #       <preglow> and wont until someone figures out how to fix the latency issue :/
14.16.33 #       <preglow> unless a five second latency is acceptable for sound changes, which i really dont think
14.16.55 #       <XavierGr> does anyone know a quick way to print an integer with splash?
14.17.03 #       <_FireFly_> ok i could remove some #ifdefs in my patch it can be reviewed hier: http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/lcd-remote.patch
14.18.14 #       <Slasheri> preglow: one way to "fix" that could be temporarily limiting the pcm buffer length while browsing the sound settings
14.19.07 #       <preglow> don't know what i think of temporary fixes like that
14.19.14 #       <preglow> makes it far too easy to ignore the fact that there's a real issue
14.19.35 #       <ep0ch> or have another buffer albeit very small that reads from the pcm buffer?
14.20.13 #       <linuxstb> Is the only solution to move the DSP closer to the DAC?  i.e. have a large buffer for unprocessed PCM data, and a tiny buffer the other side of the DSP?
14.20.16 #       <Slasheri> ep0ch: hmm, that could be one possible way to do it
14.20.42 #       <preglow> linuxstb: would be a good solution, but wasting memory, of course
14.20.47 #       <ep0ch> snap :p
14.21.02 #       <linuxstb> Why wasting memory?  Because we store 32-bit samples?
14.21.02 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: splash(HZ, true, "%d", myint);
14.21.21 #       <ep0ch> its not a waste if it fixes the problem
14.21.29 #       <Slasheri> preglow: and the other solutions of telling codec the exact position where it should start decoding pcm data again would be very complex and hard to get working properly
14.21.30 #       <XavierGr> so it works like the printf? I though it can take only chars and strings!
14.21.42 #       <LinusN> just like printf
14.23.34 #       <ep0ch> wouldn't this small DSP buffer have to have a mega high priority though?
14.24.22 #       <Slasheri> then it couldn't do crossfading
14.24.38 #       <ep0ch> that could still be done in the pcm buffer? :s
14.24.47 #       <Slasheri> no if it's unprocessed
14.24.53 #       <Slasheri> (no dsp at all)
14.25.18 #       <Slasheri> but maybe processed pcm buffer and post-processed final output buffer
14.25.23 #       <ep0ch> ok two buffers, one big one small, the DSP can affect either one it chooses
14.25.36 #       <Slasheri> hmm, maybe
14.25.39 #       <preglow> ehh?
14.25.55 #       <preglow> then we'll have to write dsp functions for both shorts and longs
14.26.09 #       <preglow> everything will have to be duplicated
14.26.44 #       <ep0ch> will all functions need access to both buffers?
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14.28.23 #       <XavierGr> Linus: Do you remember if you have a value that holds how many presets exist in the list?
14.28.54 #       <XavierGr> forget it I found it num_presets
14.29.43 #       <amiconn> I think the dsp might need to be split in 2
14.30.03 #       <preglow> like one part where precision isn't a problem?
14.30.06 #       <preglow> like channel width?
14.30.29 #       <preglow> the usual archos settings
14.30.39 #       <amiconn> First part being the dsp that we have now, doing resampling, unify sample format etc, where latency isn't a problem
14.31.12 #       <amiconn> Second part would do the time critical things, rendering to a very small output buffer
14.31.29 #       <webguest54> preglow, hows the eq comming on ?
14.31.33 #       <preglow> i don't see why this seperation is necessary
14.31.41 #       <preglow> webguest54: not at all
14.31.44 #       <amiconn> It could run in the isr setting up audio dma, but then it must not take too much cpu time
14.31.57 #       <preglow> webguest54: i've got a prototype going, but not ported to target yet
14.32.00 #       <_FireFly_> preglow how about the wavpack codec ??
14.32.20 #       <preglow> _FireFly_: might look at it later, i've got some other coding to do first
14.32.26 #       <_FireFly_> ok 
14.32.27 #       <webguest54> is it a comprehensive eq?
14.32.37 #       <preglow> webguest54: as comprehensive as you want it
14.32.49 #       <XavierGr> coprehensive meaning?
14.32.50 #       <preglow> i haven't thought about a gui
14.33.07 #       <preglow> amiconn: too late, i don't want 16 bit samples for precision reasons
14.33.25 #       <preglow> amiconn: i want all dsp to run on the full precision buffer
14.33.38 #       <webguest54> XavierGr, comprehensive= full featured
14.35.05 #       <preglow> amiconn: and again, i don't see why this seperation is needed, shouldn't all audio adjustments be low latency?
14.35.41 #       <preglow> amiconn: as for the resampler having no issues with latency, that's wrong, pitch adjustments will need to adjust the resampler on the fly
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14.36.22 #       <Slasheri> preglow: Hmm, what about possible echo and reverb-plugins? I think they need more buffer
14.36.34 #       <preglow> in what way?
14.36.43 #       <preglow> they'll need additional ring buffers, yes
14.36.47 #       <preglow> but i don't see how that enters into this
14.36.55 #       <Slasheri> ah, ok..
14.37.16 #       <Slasheri> but crossfading at least needs a long buffer somewhere
14.37.46 #       <preglow> indeed
14.37.54 #       <preglow> we can't dispense with the long main buffer
14.38.37 #       <preglow> and the simplest possible solution to this is keeping this buffer full precision, and applying dsp in the other end of it
14.38.55 #       <preglow> but other solutions not requiring the wasted memory would be nice
14.39.27 #       <linuxstb> I can't think how there can be any other solutions.
14.39.33 #       <preglow> no, me neither, really
14.39.50 #       <preglow> the traditional low latency way is just keeping a very small buffer
14.40.03 #       <linuxstb> And as ep0ch said, it's not wasted if it means very low latency and high audio quality.
14.40.21 #       <preglow> we could of course have a switch
14.40.25 #       <preglow> 'low latency on/off'
14.40.39 #       <preglow> if it's off, the buffer goes back to being 16 bit, and dsp is applied straight after decoding, like now
14.40.54 #       <Slasheri> preglow: and it's also possible to do just that, we could set a max buffer usage limit at anytime we need
14.41.05 #       <linuxstb> As long as you call it a switch, and not an option, it will be OK :)
14.41.15 #       <preglow> as far as i know, this setting would not add much complexity at all
14.41.43 #       <preglow> Slasheri: sure, but then crossfading and low latency would not work at the same time
14.42.03 #       <Slasheri> preglow: hmm, true
14.42.36 #       <ep0ch> if you dont want to waste memory reduce the main buffer a bit to compensate ;)
14.43.06 #       <linuxstb> Do we need 32-bits?  Would making it 24-bit be more trouble than it's worth?
14.43.25 #       <Slasheri> preglow: but it's very rare user wants even listen to crossfading while trying different sound settings
14.43.45 #       <XavierGr> Ok here is a interface wuestion: If radio is on preset mode (left/right cahnges presets instead of frequencies) what long left/right would do. Frequency scanning or Preset Scrolling?
14.43.57 #       <preglow> linuxstb: yes indeed it would
14.44.15 #       <Slasheri> linuxstb: i doubt we can make any audio buffer 24-bit because that would dramatically affect the performance
14.44.30 #       <preglow> linuxstb: or not really, we'd need to extract the samples before we can use them, would just need a bit more cpu
14.44.41 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: how about nothing? :)
14.44.53 #       <webguest54> can I delete the rockbox file which has the 'Rolo' stuff
14.45.27 #       <Slasheri> webguest54: hehe, if you delete that you can no longer boot in to rockbox :D
14.45.34 #       <preglow> 24 bit would need another costly stage just for saving and retrieving from the main buffer, though
14.45.39 #       <XavierGr> ep0ch: it seems like an option, but nothing it seems lazy.
14.45.48 Quit    webguest95 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
14.45.49 #       <Slasheri> webguest54: if the file name is rockbox.iriver
14.45.51 #       <webguest54> thanks
14.45.55 #       <XavierGr> LinusN; any feedback
14.46.17 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: i think in preset mode you shouldn't need anything but next/previous preset
14.46.30 #       <XavierGr> webguest54 dont delete that file, then rockbox will not boot.
14.46.53 Quit    t0mas (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14.46.54 Join    Tomas_ [0] (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
14.47.02 Nick    Tomas_ is now known as t0mas (n=Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
14.47.03 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: Why does crossfade need a large pcm buffer?
14.47.05 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: Frequency Scanning makes the mode inconsitent
14.47.10 #       <XavierGr> yes but let's say you have 64 presets and you are in the middle. If you want to go at the first station holding left is more right
14.47.35 #       <XavierGr> ep0ch: I agree on that, that why I say preset scrolling.
14.47.43 #       <XavierGr> ^that is
14.47.49 #       <ep0ch> XavierGr: ok ok, so preset scrolling takes you to the first or last preset?
14.48.02 #       <preglow> amiconn: so we dont need to run two codecs in parallel
14.48.18 #       <preglow> which would entail even more codec swapping on top of what we do now for voice ui
14.48.21 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: Also, how large (in terms of seconds) is the pcm buffer if crossfade is disabled?
14.48.22 #       <XavierGr> it scrolls but more quickly. 25-24-23-22-21-20 e.t.c fast and with one button
14.48.23 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: it needs to access the samples from previous song to do the crossfading/mixing
14.48.25 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: i'd say preset scrolling
14.48.37 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: it should be 2s
14.48.39 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: Ah, yes. Maybe I have a solution for that :)
14.48.40 #       <LinusN> slowly, so you can hear each preset
14.48.45 #       <Slasheri> hmm :)
14.49.28 #       <XavierGr> Hmm slowly eh? I will have to think for that first before implementing?
14.49.35 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: what kind of solution are you thinking about?
14.49.40 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: Could that be lowered?
14.49.48 #       <amiconn> (the 2 seconds I mean)
14.49.53 #       <XavierGr> Does the HZ in splash can be used for time latency?
14.49.54 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: not much without experiencing possible problems
14.50.15 #       <amiconn> My idea regarding crossfade is as follows:
14.50.23 #       <Slasheri> at least 1s is not long enough for the highest bitrate files
14.50.26 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: for what?
14.50.36 #       <amiconn> The (standard) pcm buffer is always small, i.e. the 2 seconds
14.51.12 #       <amiconn> If crossfade is enabled, there would be a second pcm buffer with the length of the crossfade setting
14.51.51 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: ah, hmm that sounds good in fact :)
14.51.54 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: the first argument to splash() is the number of ticks to wait before returning from splash()
14.52.04 #       <LinusN> it can be 0
14.52.05 #       <amiconn> The end of the old track would be decoded into that, and the dsp would take the old-track samples from there to mix with the new-track samples, then put that into the short main pcm buffer
14.52.42 #       <preglow> exactly how does this differ from what we do now?
14.52.47 #       <preglow> apart from using more memory, that is
14.53.39 #       <amiconn> preglow: It uses *slightly* more memory (2 seconds worth of pcm audio), but it would keep the lower latency of non-crossfade mode for the dsp
14.54.28 #       <XavierGr> Linus: But is there a function to delay the scrolling? Because if I call splash, a blank screen will appear between calls.
14.54.51 #       <LinusN> scrolling?
14.55.13 #       <XavierGr> Yeah you said scroll the presets slowly, I will need a time delay for that.
14.55.15 #       <preglow> as a matter of fact, proper low latency can't be done for crossfading unless we decode two tracks in parallel
14.55.41 #       <preglow> ehh
14.55.42 #       <preglow> forget me
14.55.44 #       <LinusN> well, i didn't know you wanted to use splash for the preset scrolling
14.56.16 #       <XavierGr> well i asked if there is something similar with the delay of splash. 
14.56.23 #       <LinusN> my idea was to switch to the next preset
14.56.37 Nick    TiMiD[zZZ] is now known as TiMiD (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net)
14.56.39 #       <LinusN> albeit more slowly than the regular key repeat
14.56.40 #       <TiMiD> hi
14.56.52 #       <XavierGr> hi TiMiD
14.57.09 #       <LinusN> a normal delay is done with sleep(), but that is not recommended in this case
14.57.12 #       <_FireFly_> hi TiMiD
14.57.24 #       <XavierGr> So what do you suggest?
14.57.41 #       <XavierGr> I must use something for delay.
14.57.51 #       <LinusN> pretty much the same think as the frequency scanning does
14.57.59 #       <LinusN> thing
14.58.54 #       <LinusN> but use TIME_AFTER() to pace the switching
15.00.27 Join    Xavi [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp14-adsl-193.ath.forthnet.gr)
15.00.33 #       <Xavi> Sorry for that.
15.01.03 #       <amiconn> LinusN, XavierGr An example of repeat-pacing can be found in the sudoku plugin
15.01.35 #       <Xavi> As I was saying: Linus: The frequency scanning routine uses the sleep function which you previously said that it is inapropriate.
15.02.40 #       <preglow> but anyway, no better alternatives than a full precision buffer for low latency?
15.04.38 #       <Xavi> hmm on my disconnection my image is still on the server.
15.06.52 #       <TiMiD> XavierGr: about the work I'm doing on remote : everything should be here : http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/
15.07.43 Join    Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-34.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
15.07.49 #       <TiMiD> I didn't started to integrate it to the rockbox gui interface since I didn't have a lot of time this week
15.08.23 #       <TiMiD> but in the test program, list is working fine, and status bar as well 
15.08.32 #       <TiMiD> tested on all models with simulator
15.09.15 #       <Xavi> so what are these files?
15.09.28 #       <Xavi> You will include them if there is a remote for the target?
15.09.36 #       <TiMiD> no
15.09.46 #       <Xavi> then?
15.10.01 #       <TiMiD> these files are a rewrote / adaptation of the code for handling display
15.10.24 #       <TiMiD> it does the same work as the code that handles lists and statusbar
15.10.36 #       <TiMiD> (list is a rewritten fros scratch)
15.10.59 Quit    paugh ("Leaving")
15.11.07 #       <_FireFly_> when he is ready with his work than my patch will be obsolete :)
15.11.07 #       <TiMiD> then all programs in rockbox that wants to use a list should call this code
15.11.38 #       <TiMiD> _FireFly_: your patch has a long time doing then :P
15.11.45 #       <_FireFly_> :)
15.12.39 #       <TiMiD> btw, you have done a huge work on it ! (grep gives me more than 4000 calls to lcd_* functions in the whole code ...)
15.13.58 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15.14.04 #       <_FireFly_> bagdar mention that there are too many #ifdefs :) i could reduce it a little bit but most of this #ifdefs are currently needed imho
15.14.31 #       <Zagor> TiMiD: are both menus and file browser the same list?
15.14.39 #       <Xavi> TiMiD: what the devs say? Are you on a good approach?
15.15.09 #       <_FireFly_> it would make it a lot easier to manage more displays
15.15.12 #       <TiMiD> _FireFly_: I've got only 2 or 3 ifdefs for HAS_REMOTE :)
15.15.30 #       <_FireFly_> in your code ??
15.15.54 Part    ep0ch
15.16.00 #       <TiMiD> Zagor: yes itis handled the same way (that means menus could eventually have icons too :P)
15.16.04 Quit    XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.16.25 #       <Zagor> TiMiD: how do you handle the big file buffer?
15.16.26 #       <TiMiD> Xavi: I don't know, I think nobody looked at the code
15.16.30 Nick    Xavi is now known as XavierGr (n=XavierGr@ppp14-adsl-193.ath.forthnet.gr)
15.17.01 #       <TiMiD> _FireFly_: the only ifdefs are here : http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/screen_access.c and here : http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/screen_access.h :P
15.17.14 #       <TiMiD> Zagor: I don'tduplicate it
15.17.41 #       <_FireFly_> i had short look at the code from TiMiD and it looks good for me:)
15.17.43 #       <Zagor> yeah I mean how do you get it in the list widget? a list of pointers?
15.17.48 #       <TiMiD> the list is filled with callbck functions (to avoid eating the preciousssssss memory :) )
15.18.22 Quit    actionshrimp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.18.48 #       <XavierGr> Better someone exprerianced dev look at your code to see if you heading the right way, I can't help you there.
15.18.51 #       <TiMiD> (a 9999 files dir eats even with ptrs 80k (and on players with 2M memory it's a lot)
15.19.21 #       <B4gder> 9999 files dirs are insane, on any model ;-)
15.19.34 #       <TiMiD> -_-
15.19.50 #       <TiMiD> I don't have more than 50 in one dir :p
15.20.03 #       <TiMiD> (and it's the max :) )
15.20.14 #       <_FireFly_> TiMiD: it is easier to reduce the #ifdefs when rewrite the code complete :) than adding a functionality to a existing code especially if the new functionality only used from some supported devices :)
15.20.23 Quit    ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.21.03 #       <TiMiD> yes, but writing new code is not very easy 
15.21.10 #       <_FireFly_> but i do my best to use only there #ifefs where it is necessary
15.21.24 #       <_FireFly_> that is the other side :)
15.21.49 #       <TiMiD> the problem is that the drawing codeis everywhere in the current code
15.22.07 #       <Zagor> TiMiD: I know it's early to complain, but if you could make the code 80 columns wide that would be nice. and split very long lines.
15.22.23 #       <TiMiD> ok
15.22.33 #       <B4gder> otherwise the Code Police will strike down! ;-)
15.22.38 #       <LinusN> hard
15.22.46 #       <TiMiD> (Iwork in 1280x800 so I didn't noticed it was that long)
15.23.07 #       <XavierGr> 1280*800 are you sure?
15.23.07 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
15.23.08 #       <B4gder> I work in 1600x1200
15.23.13 #       <LinusN> me too
15.23.16 #       <preglow> ditto
15.23.16 #       <XavierGr> it is 1240*1024
15.23.17 #       <B4gder> I never go beyond 80 cols
15.23.19 #       <TiMiD> my laptop ...
15.23.22 #       <LinusN> but my emacs window is 80 columns
15.23.38 #       <TiMiD> argh emacs :( vim :)
15.23.45 #       <LinusN> war! war!
15.23.49 #       <TiMiD> (don't feed the troll please :p)
15.24.15 #       <TiMiD> (but vim remains the best editor of the galaxy ^^)
15.24.20 #       <_FireFly_> i like my jdit ;)
15.24.22 #       <_FireFly_> jedit
15.24.31 #       <markun> copy con rules ;)
15.24.55 #       <TiMiD> (btw, I'm woking with notepad2 on windows because under linux the simulator doesn't want to compile)
15.25.04 #       <TiMiD> yes I know this sucks hard :(
15.25.08 #       <XavierGr> notepad2 rules!
15.25.24 #       <Zagor> omigod!
15.25.32 #       <B4gder> you are insane
15.25.49 #       <TiMiD> no :( I miss my middle click copy-past so much :(
15.25.55 #       <TiMiD> and I hate windows interface :(
15.25.57 #       <rasher> TiMiD: what's up with the simulator?
15.26.01 #       <TiMiD> oh
15.26.07 #       <TiMiD> you want the error :)
15.26.24 #       <TiMiD> kevin@harkonnen /mnt/obelix/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build $ make
15.26.24 #       <TiMiD> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
15.26.24 #       <TiMiD> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
15.26.24 DBUG    Enqueued KICK TiMiD
15.26.24 #       <TiMiD> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
15.26.24 ***     Alert Mode level 1
15.26.24 #       <TiMiD> LD rockboxui
15.26.27 #       <TiMiD> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: errno: TLS definition in /lib/libc.so.6 section .tbss mismatches non-TLS reference in /mnt/obelix/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build/librockbox.a(errno.o)
15.26.31 #       <TiMiD> /lib/libc.so.6: could not read symbols: Bad value
15.26.33 #       <TiMiD> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
15.26.36 #       <TiMiD> make[1]: *** [/mnt/obelix/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build/rockboxui] Error 1
15.26.38 #       <TiMiD> make: *** [all] Erreur 2
15.26.39 #       <rasher> Ah, that thing.
15.26.41 #       <TiMiD> kevin@harkonnen /mnt/obelix/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build $ gcc -v
15.26.43 #       <TiMiD> Lecture des spécification à partir de /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4/specs
15.26.46 #       <TiMiD> Configuré avec: /var/tmp/portage/gcc-3.4.4/work/gcc-3.4.4/configure --enable-version-specific-runtime-libs --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.4.4 --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4/include --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4 --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4/man --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.4/info --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.
15.26.53 #       <TiMiD> Modèle de thread: posix
15.26.56 #       <TiMiD> version gcc 3.4.4 (Gentoo 3.4.4, ssp-3.4.4-1.0, pie-8.7.8)
15.26.58 #       <TiMiD> kevin@harkonnen /mnt/obelix/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build $ ld -v
15.26.59 #       <rasher> I blame the French.
15.27.01 #       <TiMiD> GNU ld version 2.16.1
15.27.03 #       <TiMiD> yes :(
15.27.05 #       <B4gder> I blame gentoo
15.27.09 #       <TiMiD> rohhh
15.27.10 #       <rasher> Or that, yes.
15.27.16 #       <TiMiD> I love french and gentoo :)
15.27.17 #       <LinusN> i blame glibc
15.27.23 #       <TiMiD> I fuck gcc
15.27.32 #       <B4gder> well, gentoo _did_ actually screw up
15.27.40 #       <B4gder> and TiMiD might be using that screwed version
15.27.44 #       <markun> I can't even configure because FreeBSD's sed takes different arguments.
15.28.06 #       <B4gder> markun: we could remove the sed use and replace it with pure perl instead...
15.28.21 #       <TiMiD> I have another gentoo box with the same versions and the same compile options for glibc and the simulator is working fine
15.28.33 #       <_FireFly_> im running gentoo too ;) and i had no problems to compile the simulator
15.28.57 #       <B4gder> right, the problem was with some specific version
15.29.05 #       <B4gder> I don't recall which
15.29.14 #       <TiMiD> yaa 2 gentoo integrists here =(_O)=
15.29.25 #       <preglow> B4gder: now there's a good idea
15.29.50 #       <TiMiD> some people on the net have the same problem with other distribs and other programs
15.30.02 #       <LinusN> perl? nah, let's do it in java!
15.30.06 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15.30.06 #       * LinusN hides
15.30.18 #       <TiMiD> the error message means that errno is no safe with multithread
15.30.31 #       <Zagor> let's use ant instead of make. ant is revolutionary!
15.30.42 #       <LinusN> Zagor: yes! yes! yes!
15.30.46 #       <markun> Or c# ;)
15.30.47 #       <_FireFly_> TiMiD: have you compiled glibc with following use-flag set nptl and nptl-only ??
15.31.06 #       <_FireFly_> or scons ;)
15.31.24 #       <TiMiD> _FireFly_: yes, and since it wasn't working, I recompiled it with ntpl+linuxthreads
15.31.33 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
15.32.02 #       <Zagor> I'm afraid scroll speed on archos may suffer terribly with your approach, TiMiD :-(
15.32.03 #       <_FireFly_> jupp the simulator doesn't work with a glibc which has only nptl support
15.32.46 #       <TiMiD> Zagor: because I redraw the screen at each refresh ?
15.33.10 #       <Zagor> no, because each redraw does so much work
15.33.26 #       <TiMiD> each redraw draws all the lines
15.33.43 #       <Zagor> several callbacks via struct pointer lookup for each line
15.34.06 #       <TiMiD> 2 callbacks
15.34.17 #       <TiMiD> one for icon and one for label
15.34.50 #       <TiMiD> but since I don't have an archos I can't test :(
15.34.58 #       <Zagor> can you compile a test version for archos so we can test?
15.35.08 #       <TiMiD> ok
15.35.10 #       <Zagor> rec20 for me
15.35.29 #       <TiMiD> recorder  v2 ?
15.35.39 #       <Zagor> no sorry, option #2: archos recorder
15.35.43 #       <TiMiD> ok
15.36.06 #       <LinusN> Zagor: but isn't the most cpu time spent on rendering the text anyway?
15.36.21 #       <B4gder> I would assume so
15.36.25 ***     Alert Mode OFF
15.36.29 #       <Zagor> i hope so
15.37.31 #       <TiMiD> I tested on iriver with a loop that scrolls (each loop turn scrolls a line) and it was not slow at all
15.37.42 #       <TiMiD> but since archos have aslower cpu :(
15.38.14 #       <TiMiD> oops some compiles erors with my demistify plugin :)
15.39.01 #       <Zagor> I just need the ajz file anyway
15.41.12 #       <TiMiD> rombox.ucl ?
15.41.24 #       <LinusN> ajbrez.ajz
15.41.26 #       <LinusN> ajbrec.ajz
15.41.26 #       <TiMiD> oops .ajz u said :)
15.41.49 #       <TiMiD> http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/ajbrec.ajz
15.43.12 #       <Zagor> oh, it's only test code still? no dir loading?
15.43.17 #       <TiMiD> nope
15.43.31 #       <Zagor> also keyrepeat doesn't work so scrolling is difficult to test :-)
15.43.40 #       <TiMiD> ok
15.44.06 #       <TiMiD> i will make you a build which scrolls without keypresses :)
15.44.18 #       <Zagor> pressing DOWN repeatedly does strange things. no scrolling, but seems to make the list shorter
15.44.31 #       <Zagor> that won't help me compare with the old code.
15.44.39 #       <TiMiD> yes
15.44.59 #       <TiMiD> up and down are in test progra used to add and removedummy items
15.45.03 #       <Zagor> ok
15.45.36 #       <TiMiD> it's left / right (because the player doesn't have up/down and I was bored to change the keys each time I tested on it
15.45.50 #       <Zagor> well let's run more tests when the code does a little more :-)
15.45.54 #       <TiMiD> uploaded
15.46.08 #       <Zagor> what did you change?
15.46.18 #       <TiMiD> it should scroll as fast as it cans
15.46.25 #       <TiMiD> without a keypress
15.46.34 #       <Zagor> can't you make it recognize key repeat instead?
15.46.45 #       <Zagor> that would make it more comparable
15.46.53 #       <LinusN> Zagor: don't push him :-)
15.47.19 #       <LinusN> "why doesn't it work yet?"
15.47.32 #       <TiMiD> the code for that is in tree.c and I wanted to do this when integrating the code to tree.c
15.47.34 #       <Zagor> that's not what I'm saying
15.47.47 #       <Zagor> TiMiD: ok, no problem
15.48.02 #       <TiMiD> here it's just a small test program so that I can see everything is working as expected
15.48.02 #       <XavierGr> Zagor: Does it have any lag?
15.48.17 #       <Zagor> XavierGr: can't test that yet
15.48.22 #       <XavierGr> oh
15.48.31 #       <TiMiD> just dl http://timidzone.free.fr/pub/rockbox/remote/ajbrec.ajz 
15.48.49 #       <TiMiD> and see how fast is the max speed
15.49.06 #       <XavierGr> Ok another interface question: Do we want somewhere in the screen to declare that Preset Mode is on (preset scanning instead of frequency)?
15.49.10 #       <Zagor> well just scrolling really fast doesn't test what needs to be tested. we need to verify it scrolls as fast as the button queue is filling up with keypresses.
15.49.37 #       <Zagor> so that when the user lets go of the button, the scroll stops immediately and doesn't continue a couple of lines
15.49.45 #       <Zagor> this has been an issue before
15.49.48 #       <TiMiD> Zagor: but if it scrolls fast the it should be fast enough
15.50.09 #       <Zagor> i hope so, yes. we'll simply have to wait and see.
15.50.13 #       <TiMiD> why would scroll continue ?
15.50.29 #       <TiMiD> (the list code doesn't handle buttons)
15.50.35 #       <Zagor> because the button queue still has unprocessed button events
15.50.37 #       <LinusN> because ot scrolls slower than the key repeat
15.50.45 #       <TiMiD> ok
15.53.38 #       <TiMiD> btw, do you think the approch /api is good or should it be something else .
15.53.42 #       <TiMiD> ?
15.56.28 #       <Zagor> I'm not sure. On one hand I think it limits what can be done, since everything must now be a widget.
15.57.39 #       <Zagor> on the other hand it's a good solution.
15.57.44 #       <Zagor> s/good/elegant/
15.58.02 #       <TiMiD> I dont want to call this a widget :p
15.58.17 #       <TiMiD> (a widget is lot more generic than this)
15.58.48 #       <Zagor> well if it handles menus and file tree, that's plenty generic for us
15.59.23 #       <TiMiD> sure it would avoid duplicating code (even if menus and filetree are not exactly the same)
15.59.31 #       <Zagor> btw, simply add "case BUTTON_RIGHT | BUTTON_REPEAT:" after "case BUTTON_RIGHT:" to enable key repeat.
15.59.43 #       <TiMiD> oh :)
16.00.20 #       <TiMiD> I recompile it
16.00.50 #       <TiMiD> uploaded
16.08.26 #       <Zagor> speed looks good
16.10.37 #       <TiMiD> kewl XD
16.12.25 #       <TiMiD> well I'm going to school right now (and I don't think I will connect this evening)
16.13.30 Part    LinusN
16.13.31 #       <TiMiD> so think about that and tell me if I can start doing smth usefull (like filetree)
16.13.53 #       <TiMiD> bye!
16.13.55 #       <XavierGr> Ok another interface question: Do we want somewhere in the screen to declare that Preset Mode is on (preset scanning instead of frequency)?
16.13.58 #       <XavierGr> bye
16.14.34 Nick    TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[farAway] (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net)
16.14.34 DBUG    Enqueued KICK TiMiD[farAway]
16.14.38 #       <XavierGr> I ask again and also: Do all the archos targets are much different from choice 3 of configure?
16.16.14 #       <XavierGr> Which targets have FM radio besides: iriver, ondio FM and FM recorder?
16.16.43 #       <rasher> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart ?
16.17.15 #       <XavierGr> ah yes thanks that's what I was looking for. I had forgotten the page.
16.24.25 Quit    ashridah ("Leaving")
16.32.05 #       <rasher> B4gder/Zagor: Bleeding sources are missing a lot of files
16.32.33 #       <rasher> particularly in codecs, but also elsewhere
16.32.40 #       <B4gder> I need to run
16.32.42 Quit    B4gder ("time to say moo")
16.32.57 #       <rasher> How convenient
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16.40.08 #       <linuxstb> rasher: What is missing? Can you add them to apps/FILES ?  
16.41.26 #       <XavierGr> Great! The load/save fm preset patch is finally done and workable!
16.41.40 #       <rasher> linuxstb: if that's how to fix it, sure
16.42.02 #       <rasher> all c files in libmad for example
16.42.27 #       <rasher> only changes, copying, copyright and credits is included
16.42.58 #       <rasher> well, FILES has codecs/libmad/*
16.43.02 #       <rasher> I suspect something else is up
16.46.27 #       <linuxstb> Looks that way.  Lets wait for Bagder to come back.
16.47.48 #       <rasher> On a related note, libalac isn't there
16.48.24 #       <_FireFly_> in the daily-builds there is libalac
16.49.27 #       <rasher> I meant in apps/FILES
16.49.28 #       <preglow> the source packer has been having some problems lately
16.49.53 #       <rasher> Maybe it should just do a cvs checkout and delete the cvs control files?
16.50.58 #       <_FireFly_> rasher also in apps/FILES in the daily-builds
16.51.14 #       <_FireFly_> there is libalac
16.51.15 #       <rasher> maybe I'm just not using my eyes
16.51.36 #       <rasher> oh yes indeed, I'm not
16.52.04 #       <_FireFly_> it seems that only the bleeding-sources are "corrupted"
16.53.14 #       <rasher> so the daily sources work, but bleeding doesn't?
16.53.15 #       <rasher> that's bizarre
16.54.33 #       <XavierGr> to add some LANG names I must edit the english.lang?
16.54.41 #       <_FireFly_> jupp because i using the daily-build 20050930 to add new "features" to my remote-patch
16.54.51 #       <_FireFly_> XavierGr japp
16.55.22 #       <rasher> indeed, libmad contains everything from a daily
16.55.23 #       <_FireFly_> and after that you must use binlang (is in tools) to convert the *,lang to lng
16.55.25 #       <amiconn> rasher: iirc, 'cvs export' just does that what you want
16.55.41 #       <XavierGr> Ok then enough for now, when I come back I will add the strings to english.lang and make that create new file preset menu.
16.55.50 #       <XavierGr> later all!
16.55.53 #       <_FireFly_> cu
16.55.56 Quit    XavierGr ()
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17.47.32 #       <muesli-> hi
17.48.14 #       <_FireFly_> ho :)
17.52.10 Part    linuxstb ("Leaving")
17.56.16 #       <muesli-> hi feuerfliege ;)
17.58.11 #       <muesli-> muuuuchas gracias for your works on the remote
17.58.19 #       <_FireFly_> halloechen
17.58.20 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
17.58.42 Quit    jborn__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18.01.15 #       <muesli-> when i'd like to build a rwps just click it to activate it?
18.02.23 #       <_FireFly_> yes
18.02.31 #       <_FireFly_> or use the .rwps menu :)
18.02.45 #       <muesli-> rwps menu?
18.03.22 #       <_FireFly_> a similar menu as the .wps menu
18.03.52 #       <_FireFly_> is in General-Settings->Display->Browse .rwps files
18.04.41 #       <muesli-> aah, i c ;)
18.04.53 #       <muesli-> sweet
18.05.12 #       <muesli-> are conditional images possible?
18.05.42 #       <_FireFly_> i have limited the size to 800 bytes i don't think that more will be necessary
18.06.10 #       <_FireFly_> yes the size limit is the only thing that i have changed
18.06.55 #       <_FireFly_> the rest is the same as for the normal wps
18.07.15 #       <muesli-> 800bytes are quit tight. you can easily reach that size in a wps
18.07.29 #       <_FireFly_> my one doesn't ;)
18.07.59 #       <_FireFly_> but it can be easly change if necessary
18.08.57 #       <muesli-> ie. if you use 4images as a battery indicator and 4-5 for volume its almost over
18.10.20 #       <_FireFly_> i have 13 images in my remote wps and it has only 606bytes 
18.10.24 #       <solexx> are there any pre-built versions available for download?
18.10.38 #       <solexx> (with remote patch)
18.10.50 #       <_FireFly_> yes home.arcor.de/s.wezel/
18.11.04 #       <_FireFly_> based on 20050930 :)
18.11.14 #       <solexx> thanks a lot!
18.11.37 #       <_FireFly_> the zip has only the rockbox.iriver  and the updated english.lng
18.11.56 #       <_FireFly_> the rest can be used from the official daily-build
18.14.24 #       <solexx> thats ok
18.14.37 #       <_FireFly_> muesli: you can save a bit of space when you reduce the filename-length of the bitmaps
18.15.13 #       <muesli-> e4k.bmp reckon barely space for savings ;-)
18.15.23 #       <_FireFly_> ok
18.15.30 #       <_FireFly_> :)
18.16.32 #       <muesli-> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=872.msg9278#msg9278
18.16.55 #       <muesli-> 56bmp's ;)
18.18.33 #       <_FireFly_> wow that are many bitmaps
18.19.00 #       <muesli-> but i guess there are some rudiments
18.19.10 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18.19.10 #       * rasher is thinking that could be reduced a lot
18.19.17 #       <muesli-> yepp
18.19.34 #       <_FireFly_> think about your remote display isn't so big as the main display ;=
18.19.57 #       <muesli-> true too ;)
18.20.08 #       <muesli-> 45images are in use *just counted*
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18.20.27 #       <muesli-> but not at the same time
18.20.49 #       <muesli-> as i said... 4 for codecs
18.20.53 #       <muesli-> 4 for playmode
18.20.55 #       <muesli-> s
18.21.00 #       <muesli-> 4 battery level
18.21.06 #       <muesli-> 4 volume level
18.21.07 #       <muesli-> ...
18.23.08 #       <muesli-> thats the hidden trap of conditions..many choices require many assumptions..
18.24.03 Join    ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220)
18.32.00 #       <amiconn> muesli-, _FireFly_: I just want to remind of my suggestion to allow bitmap-regions, and put many images used in the .wps into one .bmp files
18.32.01 #       <amiconn> -s
18.32.37 #       <amiconn> This would both help to reduce file system clutter, and keep the .wps files smaller
18.33.29 #       <_FireFly_> that is a good idea but i have currently no clue how to implement it
18.33.33 #       <muesli-> err..could you describe it..just dont have any pic of your idea
18.33.51 #       <_FireFly_> you have one bitmap file 
18.34.06 #       <amiconn> Many skinning systems for pc programs use that
18.34.35 #       <_FireFly_> the bitmap file have all stages e.g. volume-bar
18.35.12 #       <_FireFly_> the iriver firmware use it also
18.35.22 Quit    webguest41 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
18.36.06 #       <muesli-> nope, afaik irivers fw uses for any event a specific bmp
18.36.18 #       <rasher> No.
18.36.34 #       <rasher> It uses a couple of combined bmps
18.36.59 #       <amiconn> muesli-: The idea is to put multiple, or even all, images used in the wps into one .bmp
18.37.24 #       <amiconn> The individual images can be put side by side, or benath each other, in the .bmp
18.37.54 #       <rasher> in the case of a volume meter, you could even just use one image, and then use half of it
18.37.55 #       <amiconn> The wps code would then allow to clip a region from the whole .bmp for display
18.38.04 #       <muesli-> and when you want a specific satge for i.e battery put some "spacers" about it?
18.38.44 #       <amiconn> rasher: Yes, provided the higher stages are simply extending some kind of graph
18.39.17 #       <rasher> Yup
18.40.00 #       <amiconn> Sometimes one may want en extra image for volume==0, a muted speaker symbol or such
18.40.56 #       <amiconn> rasher: The iriver firmware allows changing of images?
18.41.13 #       <rasher> No
18.41.21 #       <rasher> But internally it uses combined bmps
18.41.31 #       <_FireFly_> someone has striped it off
18.41.35 #       <_FireFly_> :)
18.41.39 #       <_FireFly_> from the firmware
18.41.57 #       <amiconn> ah
18.43.03 #       <muesli-> amiconn your idea sounds good..but doesnt kill it the freedom of different wps?
18.43.17 #       <amiconn> Why should it?
18.43.42 #       <muesli-> mmh...yeah..nevermend
18.43.45 #       <muesli-> mind
18.43.51 #       <amiconn> First, we could keep the ability to load multiple .bmp files *in addition* to allow clip regions
18.44.26 #       <amiconn> I'd rather not want that, but even the one could rearrange available images with an image editor
18.44.35 #       <amiconn> *even then...
18.45.04 #       <muesli-> how do want to place different codec icons at the same spot when using only one bmp?
18.45.16 #       <amiconn> Not at the same spot
18.45.40 #       <amiconn> (in the bmp)
18.45.49 #       <amiconn> That's of course impossible
18.46.12 #       <muesli-> how do want to solve this?
18.46.35 #       <amiconn> You clip a region from the .bmp, and draw it at a specified location on the screen
18.46.50 #       <amiconn> Both positions are independent from each other
18.47.11 #       <_FireFly_> here is an example bmp from the iriver firmware http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/12.bmp
18.47.27 #       <amiconn> Hmm, that might in fact not save that much on the .wps file size...
18.47.57 #       <amiconn> _FireFly_: That's.. stupid. Repeating 'CH' over and over...
18.48.33 #       <_FireFly_> i haven't done this bmp ;)
18.48.48 #       <_FireFly_> it is a bmp from the frimware stripped off
18.49.08 #       <amiconn> I know... I mean, iriver is stupid.
18.49.12 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
18.49.24 #       <_FireFly_> or it was easier to make it so
18.50.08 #       <muesli-> dont be so harsh with them ;-) just see from their point, develop it fast and easy ;)
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18.55.42 Join    linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
19.00.13 #       <linuxstb> I'm about how an iPod colour LCD driver will work in Rockbox.  It's 220x176 (same as H300) 16-bit colour: 5R, 6G, 5B, (the H300 is listed as 18-bit) and the data is written to the device as 32-bit words containing the values of two adjacent (in the x direction) pixels.
19.00.49 #       <linuxstb> Has anyone thought about how the H300's colour LCD will fit into Rockbox?
19.01.29 #       <Bagder> amiconn might have
19.01.36 #       * Bagder runs off again
19.04.14 #       <muesli-> gotta go
19.06.47 #       <_FireFly_> oh poor Bagder ;)
19.06.48 Quit    muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19.09.24 #       <Slasheri> Updated dircache: http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache_rev2.diff
19.09.52 #       <Slasheri> please report any problems you will find
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19.43.56 #       <markun> Slasheri: It works quite nice. The scanning is a bit faster than before, and a lot faster than the iriver firmware I think.
19.44.26 #       <rasher> It was a lot faster to begin with
19.45.38 #       <markun> The hd just started spinning when I entered a dir.. but that was just the unicode patch :)
19.50.20 #       <ender`> how's the unicode patch progressing? i noticed i can't play some files (rockbox just skips over them)
19.51.26 #       <markun> ender`: does the skipping have anything todo with unicode?
19.51.58 #       <ender`> file names
19.52.37 #       <ender`> they contain japanese characters, and while iRiver's firmware displays (and plays) them fine, rockbox simply skips to the next file
19.53.28 #       <markun> How strange, but it's been a long time since I used a non unicode version of rockbox so I wouldn't know.
19.53.30 #       <fuzzie> oh, i was wondering earlier if anyone was working on fixing that
19.54.04 Quit    Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19.54.57 #       <ender`> markun: are your binaries available anywhere? (i'm not in the mood to set up compile environment ATM)
19.57.12 #       <markun> ender`: yes, but the font with japanese is very large (12x13)
19.57.32 #       <ender`> no problem, i'd just like to test if the file plays
19.57.33 Join    Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net)
19.58.04 #       <markun> 130.89.160.166/rockbox/rockbox-unicode.zip
19.58.06 #       <ender`> btw, would it be possible to extract the font from original firmware and convert it to a format that rockbox understands?
19.58.08 #       <markun> http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/rockbox-unicode.zip
19.58.15 #       <ender`> thanks
19.59.20 #       <markun> ender`: Do you want the bdf versions of the fonts so you can convert them yourself?
19.59.41 #       <ender`> i could probably do that
20.00.40 #       <markun> http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/ucs-fonts.tar.gz and http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/ucs-fonts-asian.tar.gz
20.00.55 #       <markun> ender`: The are from X11
20.01.29 #       <ender`> ok
20.03.28 #       <markun> Can you convert them or do you want a converted font?
20.05.15 #       <ender`> is there a converter, or should i write one?
20.06.22 #       <ender`> btw, the files seem to play now
20.13.35 #       <markun> ender`: Use rockbox/tools/convbdf
20.14.19 #       <ender`> ok, i'll look at that, thanks
20.17.00 #       <markun> ender`: Here ya go laddy :) http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/unicode-fonts.zip
20.21.24 Join    mrelwood [0] (n=54e7a54f@labb.contactor.se)
20.22.34 #       <mrelwood> how come the daily build is of a later date than bleeding edge? for iRiver H120 that is.
20.22.36 #       <ender`> haha, thanks
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20.23.37 #       <rasher> mrelwood: because the bleeding edge build is the latest - daily is only done once a day
20.24.56 #       <mrelwood> the bleeding edge is for yesterday.
20.25.07 #       <amiconn> rasher: I think mrelwood means the current daily is newer than bleeding edge
20.25.10 #       <_FireFly_> currently the daily-build-20050930 is also the latest because the last cvs commit was on 20050929
20.25.16 #       <mrelwood> i ment the daily is later than the bleeding, ofcourse.
20.25.21 #       <rasher> Ah.
20.25.33 #       <rasher> The daily is built each midnight. Bleeding is built after each change.
20.25.41 #       <rasher> There haven't been any changes since midnight.
20.25.43 #       <rasher> So.
20.25.48 #       <amiconn> The dailies are built once a day, the bleeding edge is built whenever something is checked into cvs
20.25.50 #       <mrelwood> okay, so they are the same, even though different date?
20.25.57 #       <rasher> Yes.
20.26.15 #       <mrelwood> okay, so no prob then. I'll stich with the bleeding... :)
20.26.25 #       <mrelwood> stick I ment. :P
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20.32.09 #       <ep0ch> Slasheri (or anyone): in order to apply your second dircache.diff do i have to apply the first patch you made?
20.32.09 Quit    mrelwood ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
20.33.59 #       <Slasheri> ep0ch: no, you shouldn't have it installed
20.34.22 #       <ep0ch> meh, i messed up somehow then
20.34.34 #       <Slasheri> what was the problem?
20.34.42 #       <Slasheri> it could be my patch also
20.35.07 #       <ep0ch> first i put the patch into apps/
20.35.17 #       <ep0ch> applied the patch with -p0
20.35.30 #       <Slasheri> no, put it to the rockbox root
20.35.41 #       <Slasheri> it needs to access firmware/ part also
20.35.46 #       <ep0ch> ah
20.35.49 #       <ep0ch> ty
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20.43.12 #       <webguest54> Slasheri, I change the contents of my player continuously, will the file update with your system be automatic/transparent,
20.43.28 #       <Slasheri> webguest54: yes
20.43.32 #       <Slasheri> automatic and transparent
20.43.43 #       <webguest54> sounds good
20.43.58 Quit    Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
20.44.16 #       <BirdFish> Transparent update? As in it updates behind the scenes rather than a slowed boot?
20.45.20 #       <Slasheri> yep
20.45.45 Join    Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
20.46.25 #       <BirdFish> Cool
20.49.26 Quit    solexx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20.52.35 #       <ep0ch> is there an easy way to see how much memory & diskspace the dircache uses up?
20.53.01 #       <Slasheri> ep0ch: not a separate debug menu entry yet, but you can use logf for that
20.53.42 #       <ep0ch> when does the actual dir cache file get written to disk?
20.53.50 #       <ep0ch> on shutdown?
20.54.04 #       <Slasheri> when you shutdown the unit. But it has no real use currently
20.54.14 #       <Slasheri> only headers are read on next boot from that cache file
20.54.40 #       <ep0ch> so everytime rockbox boots up now it does a scan? whereas before the user had the option?
20.55.21 #       <Slasheri> yes, the option is disabled at least until we can get few problems with bootloader usb mode solved
20.55.45 #       <Moos> let's hope in Linus :;)
20.56.02 #       <Slasheri> and only reason for that option was increased battery performance. However, the current implementation gives fast rebuilding time so there should be no need for that option anymore
20.56.43 #       <ep0ch> how come irivers scanning takes 20 times longer ?? :s
20.56.58 #       <Moos> Slasheri: thanks for this again
20.57.04 #       <ep0ch> does it read all the tag data too or something
20.57.10 #       <Slasheri> bootup time shouldn't be affected at all all whether cache is enabled or not
20.57.25 #       <rasher> _FireFly_: where's your latest patch?
20.57.55 #       <Moos> Timid where is your last patch :D
20.57.59 #       <Moos> hi rasher
20.58.09 #       <rasher> Evening
20.58.10 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: I'd vote for removing the option and the need for a cache file altogether
20.58.12 #       * BirdFish wonders why people beg and beg for DRMed music... Napster and such services are such a waste of money. For maybe 2 dollars more, one could get the entire cd in pure format rather than 128 kb/s (and it wouldn't be protected)
20.58.47 #       <fuzzie> BirdFish: right, but 99c for the only track off it you want is a rather better deal
20.58.49 #       <ep0ch> rasher: quick question about the File Properties patch you use, any idea how do i use it? :s
20.58.55 #       <amiconn> Slasheri: You can store the needed cache size value in the config sector
20.59.01 #       <fuzzie> and jhymn makes it a matter of seconds to strip the DRM off iTMS files. :)
20.59.16 #       <rasher> ep0ch: Use "open with" on a file.. but it's really stupid
20.59.26 #       <BirdFish> fuzzie: I realize, but it's still encoded at 128 kb/s which sux b@lls
20.59.27 #       <ep0ch> duh like me :D
20.59.53 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: that option is already removed (ifdeffed out)
21.00.14 #       <Moos> HCl: are you aware, it's about your runtime db ?
21.00.14 #       <fuzzie> 128kbps AAC isn't that bad, but, yeah, if it's not just single tracks then the CD is obviously the best option by far
21.00.35 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: hmm, yes. i think i will move that cache size value to the config then
21.00.40 #       * amiconn is fiddling with the grayscale lib
21.01.16 #       <amiconn> Wish coldfire wouldn't split the registers into dedicated address & data registers :(
21.01.22 #       <ep0ch> i personnally would like a compromise with the cache and have a dynamic on the fly cache, that still starts the harddisk up even if something is cached or not.
21.01.48 #       <rasher> ep0ch: why would you spin up the harddisk if something is already cached?
21.02.13 #       <ep0ch> so when you navigate to something that isnt in the cache there is little delay (as the HD is already started)
21.02.17 #       <amiconn> I'm short of data registers, so I have to store values in address registers and swap everytime, as address registers can't be used for logical operations and bitshifts :/
21.02.51 #       <Slasheri> ep0ch: everything is cached so there will be no delays (with my patch)
21.03.23 #       <ep0ch> Slasheri: yes i know, but i'd like the compromise of not wasting too much memory and getting a speed boost
21.03.23 #       <Moos> all is instantatly, browsing your files, plugins, config...
21.03.58 #       <rasher> You can't really use any less memory
21.04.09 #       <ep0ch> why not?
21.04.11 #       <rasher> It wouldn't make sense to cache half the disk, when it's such relatively small amounts
21.04.12 #       <_FireFly_> rasher the latest version can be found here http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/lcd-remote-plus-additional-patches.zip
21.04.21 #       <rasher> _FireFly_: thanks
21.04.43 #       <_FireFly_> it has also the updated wps-sb-tag patch included in the zip
21.04.46 #       <Slasheri> that wasting memory is something around 200-500 KiB depending how much you have files.. under 2% of the iriver memory size
21.04.46 #       <ep0ch> just have a cache size limit, last one used gets kicked out
21.05.06 #       <_FireFly_> and some other so that they all can be cleanly applied after the remote patch
21.05.14 #       * amiconn had an idea how to fix the problem that the file browser doesn't update the list when returning from a plugin
21.05.27 #       <_FireFly_> the order are given in the filename beginning
21.05.30 #       <rasher> amiconn: the plugins hould just return PLUGIN_USB_CONNECTED
21.05.41 #       <rasher> At least, that's what Linus said, and it works
21.05.54 #       <amiconn> rasher: No, that would make the browser re-read the dir *everytime* when returning
21.06.04 #       <amiconn> (from such a plugin)
21.06.17 #       <amiconn> My idea would only make it re-read when necessary
21.06.32 #       <amiconn> ...without touching any plugin source file :)
21.06.58 #       <rasher> ah, taking notice on when the plugin struct file-functions are used?
21.07.07 #       <_FireFly_> i have added some options for the remote: seperate scrollbar, statusbar, line selector
21.07.19 #       <amiconn> This would be a general approach:
21.07.33 #       <rasher> dammit, rejects
21.07.42 #       <_FireFly_> oh
21.07.48 #       <_FireFly_> which patch ??
21.08.00 #       <rasher> The first. I'm not applying to a clean tree
21.08.02 #       <amiconn> The file system code would maintain a "revision counter" that is increased every time a file operation changes the directory structure
21.08.05 #       <_FireFly_> ;)
21.08.13 #       <amiconn> (creating/renaming/moving a file)
21.08.20 #       <_FireFly_> it based on 20050930
21.08.46 #       <amiconn> Every module that caches directory data (like the file browser) would read that counter and compare it to a private copy
21.09.17 #       <amiconn> If the browser sees the counter has incremented compared to its own copy, it would re-read the dir
21.09.53 #       <amiconn> This counter would also be incremented when leaving USB mode
21.10.28 #       <ep0ch> even if no files change during USB mode?
21.10.39 #       <rasher> there's no way to tell
21.10.41 #       <amiconn> ep0ch: It's impossible to decide
21.10.49 #       <ep0ch> that;'s what i thought :)
21.11.03 #       <amiconn> No need to excessively pass around info about returning from usb mode, as it is done now
21.11.33 #       <amiconn> The return codes of the menu functions, plugins etc could be reused for different purposes, or dropped completely
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21.14.55 #       <_FireFly_> rasher: whenn you applay both wps-sb-tag patches now it is possible to have the tags also in the wps for the remote
21.14.59 #       <_FireFly_> apply
21.15.05 #       <amiconn> Currently there are many places where such status info is passed around, not only in menus but also in recording screen etc
21.17.19 #       <ep0ch> anyone know which file/files the quick menu code is in?
21.17.20 #       <rasher> _FireFly_: well, I think I broke my tree pretty much
21.17.45 #       <_FireFly_> hmm maybe i have forgotten a patch
21.18.48 #       <_FireFly_> no all patches are included
21.20.07 #       <rasher> well, I've applied other patches before applying yours
21.20.54 #       <_FireFly_> i have used the plain daily-build :)
21.21.14 #       <rasher> of course
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23.08.07 #       <_FireFly_> night everybody
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23.23.36 #       <solexx_> kudos to FireFly for his LCD builds!
23.24.02 #       <solexx_> if only my friend who used his remote a lot hadn't got his iriver stolen...
23.27.28 #       <solexx_> Rockbox another user now...
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23.36.33 #       <webguest19> hi guys
23.37.17 #       <webguest19> hello, is there anybody in there? ;-)
23.42.09 #       <markun> sure
23.43.59 #       <webguest19> hi
23.44.16 #       <webguest19> midi doesn't really work on the iriver, does it?
23.44.28 #       <markun> No, not yet.
23.45.32 #       <webguest19> alright, just wanted to know if im too stupid or if it really doesn't work...
23.45.39 #       <markun> :)
23.46.22 #       <markun> The plugin produces the audio data, but it is not playing it. Someone is working on it.
23.47.42 #       <webguest19> it seems like it freezes somewhere..
23.47.59 #       <webguest19> at least i have now a remote that displays something useful