--- Log for 26.07.106  Server: kornbluth.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot_  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 4 days and 5 hours ago

00.01.58 Quit    bob_ (Client Quit)
00.02.34 #       <barrywardell> i'm trying that gpio stuff you suggested linuxstb but I'm having trouble
00.03.23 #       <barrywardell> trying to write to a file using fprintf but the compiler complains about an undefined reference to `fprintf'
00.04.04 #       <linuxstb> There isn't fprintf :)
00.04.16 #       <linuxstb> You need to use snprintf() and then write()
00.04.29 #       <barrywardell> ah, that would explain it so. thanks
00.07.38 #       <Bagder> there's an fdprintf
00.09.32 #       <linuxstb> There is?
00.09.36 #       <barrywardell> and that works the same as fprintf?
00.09.50 #       <Bagder> barrywardell: yes, but with a file descriptor and not a FILE *
00.09.59 #       <linuxstb> Bagder: Have you done any disassembly of the bootloader yet?
00.10.03 #       <linuxstb> (for the Sansa)
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00.10.10 #       <Bagder> only very minor
00.10.57 #       <Bagder> the task feels quite daunting so I'm hesitating
00.11.18 #       <linuxstb> I'm just looking at the very start of it now - the code starting at 0x5c
00.11.54 #       <barrywardell> now i'm getting warning: implicit declaration of function 'fdprintf'
00.12.08 #       <barrywardell> do I need an extra #include?
00.12.20 #       <Bagder> yes, sprintf.h
00.13.01 #       <Bagder> linuxstb: you mean the BL* file?
00.13.04 #       <linuxstb> It writes some values to what IPL think is the cache controller (registers starting 0x6000C000 onwards), and then branches to address 0x106172a0 - which is beyond the end of the bootloader...
00.13.06 #       <linuxstb> Yes.
00.13.28 #       <linuxstb> BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom
00.14.06 #       <Bagder> I've started at the mi4 code
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00.19.02 #       <linuxstb> Ah, the code at 0x172a0 seems to continue the initialisation - it's doing the COP/Main CPU check in the same way the ipods do.
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00.19.32 #       <Bagder> yes I noticed that check too
00.19.42 #       <linuxstb> It's done in the .mi4 as well?
00.19.46 #       <Bagder> yes
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00.21.29 #       <Bagder> I'm not sure the BL is a true bootloader
00.21.44 #       <Bagder> but might be used mostly for the actual upgrade procedure
00.22.44 #       <linuxstb> It doesn't load the .mi4 file?
00.23.12 #       <Bagder> well yes for the upgrade but after that, I'm not sure there are traces of that left
00.23.35 #       <linuxstb> So the mi4 is flashed?
00.23.38 #       <Bagder> yes
00.23.48 #       <linuxstb> Ah...
00.24.22 #       <linuxstb> That would probably explain barrywardell's trouble when trying to load it from disk and run it...
00.24.25 Part    RaiderX
00.24.29 #       <linuxstb> (on the H10)
00.25.42 #       <barrywardell> i'm not too sure if that case
00.25.58 #       <barrywardell> it definitely still runs the code in the mi4 file on disk with the h10
00.26.04 #       <Bagder> ok
00.26.15 #       <Bagder> so I need to check this
00.26.36 #       <Bagder> perhaps I've just drawn some quick wrong conclusions
00.28.15 #       <linuxstb> My guess (based on what the ipods do) is that the BL_ image is flashed, and that loads the .mi4 from disk each time you boot.
00.31.21 Quit    freqmod (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.32.12 #       <Bagder> but this player removes the mi4 file on upgrade
00.32.31 #       <barrywardell> My interpretation of the h10 at least is that on firmware upgrade 3 files are copied to the hdd. BL*.hex to /, two mi4 files to /System. The system reboots and writes BL_ to flash. it then reboots again and loads the mi4
00.32.42 #       * Bagder tests more
00.32.49 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: that sounds different
00.33.26 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: So presumably the two .mi4 files stay in /System forever?
00.35.12 #       <Bagder> "To me it looks like the H10_20GC.mi4 is some sort of 'upgrade' software, which will descramble the BL_H10_20GC.hex and burn it to the flash. Then it will boot the H10_20GC_image.mi4"
00.35.21 #       <Bagder> (MrH said)
00.35.28 Quit    ender` (" We know the speed of light... so, what's the speed of darkness?")
00.36.05 #       <barrywardell> only one of them stays. it looks like one is an older version of the firmware for some reason.eg. H10_20GC.mi4 has version 2.50 in header. H10_20GC_image.mi4 has version 2.51 in header
00.36.30 #       <barrywardell> the _image one is the  one that stays
00.37.07 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: MrH makes a lot of sense
00.37.16 Join    ttyfscker [0] (n=ttyfscke@71.31.1.2)
00.37.36 #       <ttyfscker> i think i might have found a bug with the latest "stable" in rockbox nano
00.37.54 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: So to test a bootloader, you call it H10_20GC_image.mi4 and copy it to your /System directory?
00.38.03 #       <Bagder> barrywardell: he's indeed a useful fellow
00.38.09 #       <ttyfscker> i hadn't used my ipod in about a week or so. I shut it down properly and everything with the holding Play button.  This morning when i booted it up
00.38.21 #       <ttyfscker> all of my directories are on there, but their contents are all gone
00.38.49 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: I never change the BL bootloader. When I run a test, i just build a mi4 file, call it H10_20GC.mi4 and copy it to /System
00.39.08 #       <barrywardell> i build the mi4 file from bootloader.bin
00.39.14 #       <Bagder> linuxstb: we don't need to touch the bootloader on these
00.39.17 #       <barrywardell> from rockbox
00.39.49 #       <linuxstb> ttyfscker: Try holding down the MENU button until the "quick menu" comes up, what does the "Show Files" option say?
00.40.03 #       <ttyfscker> hang on lemme check
00.40.36 #       <linuxstb> Bagder, barrywardell: When I say "bootloader", I mean barrywardell tests running a stripped-down ipod bootloader.
00.40.58 #       <Bagder> uh, right
00.41.07 #       <ttyfscker> it shows all of my folders, but they have nothing in them
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00.42.23 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: in that case, then yes. only the file is called H10_20GC.mi4
00.43.25 #       <ttyfscker> the funny thing is when i mount the ipod to /media/ipod,  i can cd into it, and see all of my mp3s
00.43.32 #       <ttyfscker> they just arent showing on the rockbox
00.43.40 #       <ttyfscker> they were working fine before
00.45.53 #       <markun> ttyfscker: all the folders show up as empty?
00.46.15 #       <ttyfscker> hrm
00.46.30 #       <ttyfscker> i think i fixed it.. it was that Show Files option
00.46.36 #       <ttyfscker> i was using the keys wrong when picking that
00.46.43 #       <ttyfscker> sorry guys
00.46.47 #       <linuxstb> np
00.46.51 #       <ttyfscker> thanks linuxstb
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00.53.59 #       <linuxstb> Bagder: Am I right in thinking that a "bx" to address 0x106048f3  would switch to thumb mode?
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00.54.58 #       <Bagder> yes I believe so
00.55.16 #       <linuxstb> In which case, the Sansa BL_ file is using thumb.
00.56.21 #       <Bagder> I'm off to bed, good night!
00.56.28 #       <Mikachu> good night
00.56.39 #       <linuxstb> goodnight.
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01.02.26 #       <barrywardell> goodnight Bagder. thanks for the help
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01.18.50 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: Any luck with the gpio stuff?
01.19.17 #       <barrywardell> yeah, just getting it going now
01.19.24 #       <barrywardell> writing it out to a file
01.19.52 #       <barrywardell> do you know what fsync() does. it seems to need that and a udelay() for stuff to be written to the file
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01.24.06 #       <linuxstb> I think Rockbox caches one sector, so fsync will write that sector.  But closing the file should do the same...
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01.26.36 #       <barrywardell> i did a close(fd) but it doesn't seem to work with just that. i have it working now anyway and am starting to work out the buttons
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01.26.58 #       <barrywardell> gpio_a seems to be related to which button is pressed
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01.27.31 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: is that the same as with the ipod?
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01.29.30 #       <enzyme> i got a question about the ipods
01.29.55 #       <scorche> then ask it =)
01.31.16 #       <enzyme> well at work i got this stereo that can play music from a usb port and i was woundering is there any way of playing mp3 off of my ipod in a disk mode that doesnt use the rockbox or ipod firmware
01.32.20 #       <scorche> not that i know of...unless someone else wants to chime in
01.32.43 #       <antitheist> im presuming this stereo plugs into a pc with all necessary drivers? those types of stereos generaly require quite a bit of software
01.32.47 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: Nice.  No, the ipods don't use GPIO for the buttons (only the hold switch).
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01.33.29 #       <scorche> antitheist: it sounds like he has a stereo that has a USB port on it
01.33.38 #       <scorche> not one that runs off the computer
01.33.51 #       <antitheist> yeah but i never used it
01.33.52 #       <enzyme> scorche you hit the nail
01.34.37 #       <JdG|uni> why the heck is winxp telling me unrecognised device when i plug my h300 in?
01.35.38 #       <scorche> enzyme: like i said...i do not know of a way that will allow you to do that...however, does the stereo have composite inputs, an aux input, or anything of the sort?
01.35.52 #       <enzyme> nope
01.36.10 #       <linuxstb> So what's the USB port designed for?  What does it expect to be plugged into it?
01.36.13 #       <enzyme> also is there a way of deleting the ipod firmware
01.36.53 #       <enzyme> the usb port plays music from  usb keys card
01.36.54 #       <antitheist> format it
01.36.58 #       <scorche> there is...why do you want to?....it is unecessary trouble in most cases
01.37.14 #       <linuxstb> enzyme: Then it may work - ipods act as standard UMS hard drives.
01.37.18 #       <enzyme> i dont use the apple firmware
01.37.30 #       <scorche> antitheist: no...
01.37.47 #       <enzyme> ok how do i get it to act as a standered ums drive
01.37.50 #       <linuxstb> enzyme: And yes, you can install Rockbox without the Apple firmware if you want to.  But it's not documented anywhere.
01.37.55 #       <linuxstb> enzyme: Just plug it in...
01.38.16 #       <scorche> enzyme: honestly, it is better to just ignore it than remove it
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01.38.43 #       <scorche> enzyme: oh...have you not tried simply plugging it in yet?
01.38.54 #       <linuxstb> When you plug it into a normal computer, it just appears as a UMS hard drive to the computer.  So it should be the same with your Stereo - assuming your stereo supports UMS hard drives.
01.39.16 #       * scorche assumes too much....as usual
01.39.21 #       <enzyme> yeah i have but the stereo doesnt reconize it, there was one time i got music to play but i couldnt change it
01.39.53 #       <enzyme> change  songs
01.40.20 #       <linuxstb> What stereo is it/
01.40.21 #       <linuxstb> ?
01.40.35 #       <enzyme> i dunno
01.40.40 #       <enzyme> find out toommorow
01.42.37 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: Do all the buttons appear to be connected to gpio_a ?
01.42.56 #       <barrywardell> most of them are
01.43.03 #       <barrywardell> except the scroller
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02.06.16 #       <barrywardell_> linuxstb: u still there?
02.06.33 #       <barrywardell_> figured out some of the button stuff
02.07.03 #       <barrywardell_> gpio_a controls the normal buttons
02.07.42 #       <linuxstb> Still here.
02.08.02 #       <linuxstb> So all you need now is an LCD driver...
02.08.15 #       <barrywardell_> haven't figured out the scroller yet though
02.08.40 #       <linuxstb> That's probably some other kind of interface - I don't think that will be as easy.
02.08.41 #       <barrywardell_> it changes gpio_c and gpio_d, but is only an on/off thing
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02.09.44 #       <barrywardell_> how does ipod work? where can i look for the code?
02.09.53 #       <linuxstb> It's in firmware/drivers/button.c
02.10.40 #       <linuxstb> You should create a wiki page and document all these hardware findings...
02.11.01 #       <linuxstb> Can you detect anything else?  USB, charging, headphones?
02.11.04 #       <barrywardell_> i plan to
02.11.10 #       <barrywardell_> just have to get around to it
02.11.23 #       <barrywardell_> i'll check those next. haven't looked into it yet
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02.12.10 #       <linuxstb> But at least you already have a simple way of deciding which firmware to boot.
02.12.51 #       <barrywardell_> yes. good progress. i have a feeling the lcd is going to be much more difficult though
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02.15.42 #       <linuxstb> BTW, I've just been looking a little at the BL_H10_20GC file, and it seems that gpio_f is used for output - the first thing the bootloader does is enable GPIO_F for output, and write the value 1 to it.
02.16.14 #       <linuxstb> It then puts the COP to sleep, and then switches into Thumb mode to run some thumb code.  That's as far as I got...
02.16.25 #       <linuxstb> Does the bootloader use the LCD?
02.16.40 #       <barrywardell_> yes, it displays a splash screen
02.16.52 #       <linuxstb> That could be a good way to work out the LCD then.
02.17.18 #       <linuxstb> Is the screen 220x176?
02.17.31 #       <barrywardell_> nope, 160x128
02.17.37 #       <barrywardell_> the specs in the wiki are wrong
02.19.49 #       <barrywardell_> gpio_f is set to e6 once the system starts up
02.22.10 #       <linuxstb> Sorry, pin 0 (if you number them 0-7) is the only one enabled for output.  So I don't know what the others are.
02.23.38 #       <barrywardell_> would it be possible to set it to 0 to see if the screen turns off. how do i achieve that in the code?
02.26.07 #       <linuxstb> GPIOF_OUTPUT_VAL = 0;  But that is the very first thing the bootloader does, so it's unlikely to be LCD related that soon.
02.27.40 #       <barrywardell_> would it do any harm to the player to try it?
02.28.00 #       <linuxstb> I don't know :)
02.29.39 #       <barrywardell_> i was feeling daring, so I tried it
02.29.45 #       <barrywardell_> it just shut the system off
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02.34.52 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell_: If the original firmware refuses to load from disk, you could try appending it to the end of your bootloader - so your new .mi4 file will contain both your code and the original firmware.  Then in your bootloader (before you do any hardware initialisation at all), check for a keypress.  If the key is pressed, then you can just memmove the original firmware to the start of DRAM (0x10000000) and pass execution to it - without
02.34.53 #       <linuxstb>  ever accessing any hardware.
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02.37.59 #       <barrywardell_> i think i understand. sounds like a good idea to try so i'll give it a shot
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02.44.22 #       <linuxstb> I'm just assuming the reason it isn't working is because it doesn't like the state of the hardware the Rockbox bootloader leaves it in.  But maybe there's another reason.
02.44.30 #       <linuxstb> But time for bed.  Goodnight.
02.45.13 #       <barrywardell_> goodnight. thanks for all the help. it has made the difference between being totally in the dark and making some good progress
02.46.14 #       <BigMac> jd you here
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04.02.51 #       <BigMac> hey linux you here
04.06.19 #       <Mikachu> BigMac: you will probably have better luck talking to people if you use their full nicks
04.07.09 #       <BigMac> linuxstb
04.07.13 #       <BigMac> you still here
04.07.29 #       <BigMac> ah he went to bed nvm
04.07.54 #       <BigMac> would anyone else car to explain why anyone would want a mp4 metaparser
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04.11.06 #       <merbanan> BigMac: to get the metadata ?
04.11.20 #       <BigMac> what is metadata
04.11.47 #       <merbanan> like the id3 tag
04.12.06 #       <merbanan> general info
04.12.17 #       <BigMac> eh i dont get it but thats ok
04.12.32 #       <BigMac> isnt mp4 a video type...which rockbox cant play
04.12.51 #       <merbanan> no mp4 is a container
04.13.10 #       <merbanan> that can contain video codecs etc
04.13.30 #       <BigMac> i wish there was a p2p share that had mostly ogg/flac
04.13.43 #       <BigMac> limewire has near zero
04.14.45 #       <scorche> this isnt the channel to help with that =)
04.14.53 #       <Mikachu> oink
04.15.34 #       <BigMac> i didnt ask for help i was just talking:-)
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04.26.00 #       <Harry> yo
04.26.07 #       <Harry> i have a request
04.26.13 #       <Harry> i need soemone to maeka wps file for my theme
04.26.18 #       <Harry> for  a ipod video
04.26.22 #       <Harry> ill show how it looks
04.26.51 #       <midkay> why can't you?
04.27.00 #       <Harry> lol
04.27.10 #       <Harry> i anit that good
04.27.18 #       <Harry> ive spent so much time makeign the theme
04.27.26 #       <Harry> midkay u wanna see it
04.28.06 #       <Harry> http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/446/wpsjg2.png thats it soo far
04.28.06 #       <midkay> not in particular, but i'd like to see you make a WPS instead of asking someone else :)
04.28.15 #       <Harry> :(
04.28.20 #       <midkay> that's cool. now you just need a WPS, so make one. :)
04.28.33 #       <Harry> lol
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04.28.40 #       <Harry> i wish soem dev made a visualar patch
04.28.43 #       <Harry> so mine would work
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04.28.45 #       <Harry> lol
04.29.20 #       <Harry> my theme inst done yet
04.29.25 #       <Harry> but thats how it look so far
04.29.53 #       <midkay> so finish it, then do the WPS..
04.31.00 #       <Harry> stop bloody telling me to do the wps
04.31.22 #       <midkay> calm down, and either do it yourself or don't post it up as "your theme" if you nag everyone else to do it for you.
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05.41.28 #       <biffhero> feature freeze lifted!  woo hoo!
05.50.08 #       <grimman> Old "news".
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05.50.18 #       <grimman> But good nevertheless. =)
05.50.18 #       <Harry> hey
05.51.01 #       <Harry> whos a dev in here
05.51.42 #       <Harry> or whats rockbox dev channel
05.51.59 #       <Harry> anyone?
05.52.19 #       <BigMac> im a dev
05.52.26 #       <grimman> Perhaps you can just ask whatever question you came here to ask and hope that someone with sufficient knowledge answers you. ;)
05.52.26 #       <BigMac> jk
05.52.37 #       <Harry> no grimman
05.52.42 #       <grimman> *gasp*
05.52.45 #       <grimman> It defies me.
05.52.46 #       <BigMac> he wants someone to make a .wps file for him
05.52.47 #       <grimman> Punish it!
05.52.50 #       <Harry> my question requirea dev
05.52.55 #       <Harry> bigmac no
05.53.02 #       <BigMac> sure
05.53.06 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> This is the only channel to find Rockbox devs.
05.53.07 #       <Harry> serious
05.53.16 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> What is your question?
05.53.30 #       <Harry> paul dont worry
05.53.44 #       <Harry> it for someone who can code
05.53.53 #       <grimman> Ouch.
05.54.02 #       <BigMac> he wants someone to code a wps for him
05.54.03 #       <grimman> Paul_The_Nerd vs. Harry, 0-1
05.54.16 #       <Harry> bigmac no u idoit
05.54.21 #       <BigMac> lol
05.54.33 #       <Harry> i already figuried how to make one
05.54.42 #       <BigMac> its funny because you called me an idiot and spelled idiot wrong lmao
05.54.50 #       <Harry> w/e
05.54.51 #       <Harry> lol
05.55.01 #       <Harry> idiot*
05.55.02 #       <BigMac> so it proves whos the idiot here:-)
05.55.11 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Harry: I can code. There is code of mine in Rockbox. Also, if you ask the question I may be able to tell you who to ask specifically, as I generally know who tends to work on what sort of things.
05.55.38 #       <Harry> paul i need a dev to code a visulillzer
05.55.47 #       <Harry> just a small one
05.55.57 #       <Harry> nothing fancy
05.56.06 #       <Harry> just bars going up and down
05.56.24 #       <Harry> so paul?
05.57.12 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> See, that's not even something you should be asking here.
05.57.19 #       <Harry> lol
05.57.21 #       <Harry> y not
05.57.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> A) The way you just said it makes it sound like you expect someone to just be willing to do it.
05.57.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> B) There's a FEATURE REQUEST page.
05.57.35 #       <BigMac> paul:is there an rockbox ipod emulator out so you can test stuff?
05.57.40 #       <Harry> i know
05.57.45 #       <Harry> bigmac yes
05.57.55 #       <BigMac> linkify
05.57.55 #       <Harry> paul
05.57.56 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> BigMac: There's a UI simulator. For testing WPS code, and general features, but nothing hardware specific. No emulators though.
05.58.11 #       <Harry> can u code it
05.58.24 #       <grimman> Harry: Bad question.
05.58.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Yes, I can.
05.58.33 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> No, I won't.
05.58.38 #       <Harry> omg
05.58.41 #       <Harry> please
05.58.47 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Why don't you do it?
05.58.47 #       <grimman> Haha, I knew it!
05.58.56 #       <Harry> paul
05.58.59 #       <Harry> i dont know c
05.59.01 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> There's about six-billion books on the C programming language.
05.59.04 #       <grimman> Harry: Let me tell you something about programmers; They're lazy.
05.59.05 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> As well as online tutorials.
05.59.12 #       <Harry> paul
05.59.14 #       <Harry> please
05.59.22 #       <Harry> if i show my skin
05.59.30 #       <Harry> u might wanna do it
05.59.35 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Harry: You don't want it badly enough.
05.59.36 #       <BigMac> paul:will the ui simulator work for a 5g, and is it located on the site
05.59.39 #       <BigMac> no he wont
05.59.49 #       <grimman> This is getting creepier for every second that passes.
05.59.50 #       <BigMac> its nothing spectacular man
05.59.52 #       <BigMac> its nice
05.59.54 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> BigMac: It works for all of them. You can pick it as a compile option instead of a real version.
05.59.56 #       <Harry> plus then other will code more themes
05.59.58 #       <BigMac> but its no jblackglass
06.00.07 #       <grimman> BigMac: Awesome theme. ^^
06.00.12 #       <BigMac> yah
06.00.17 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Harry: If you wanted it badly enough, you'd just go and do it yourself. So clearly, you don't desire the feature badly enough, and thus I have absolutely NO interest in it.
06.00.28 #       <grimman> Question in relation to it; will it work "properly" with newer builds?
06.00.28 #       <Harry> man
06.00.28 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I don't want the feature, it doesn't actually benefit most people, and you're being whiny about it.
06.00.31 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> In essence "shoo"
06.00.37 #       <Harry> why do u have to be like that
06.00.41 #       <BigMac> i like my jblackglass mod though but not many others do, but who cares i like it and that is all that matters:-)
06.00.51 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Because you're sitting in here whining about something as if you actually want it, but won't even bother trying to do it yourself.
06.00.52 #       <grimman> The 07-20 daily had messed up font locations and that's the only one I've tried.
06.01.04 #       <Harry> paul
06.01.09 #       <BigMac> harry
06.01.17 #       <Harry> if i try it would take me a year
06.01.25 #       <grimman> So get crackin'.
06.01.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> No, it wouldn't.
06.01.34 #       <Harry> but u maybe a couple or days or a week
06.01.38 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> As I said, either do it yourself, or file a feature request.
06.01.52 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Begging like this is a guaranteed way to ensure it won't happen, especially with something frivolous like this.
06.02.07 #       <BigMac> paul:do i have to compile the ui simulator or is there an exe on the site
06.02.25 Part    Harry
06.03.01 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> BigMac: It's best to compile yourself, especially if you want to work on WPSes that require custom builds or patches. There are compiled simulators here that you can use though, if you're okay with vanilla rockbox: http://rasher.dk/Rockbox/simulator/
06.03.41 #       <BigMac> yah compiling is far beyond me so i guess its out
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06.04.41 #       <harryy> how do i reg my nick
06.04.49 #       <harryy> whats the command
06.05.41 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It tells you what to type when you log in...
06.05.47 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Like, when you connect.
06.05.56 #       <harryy> it tells my how to identify
06.06.14 Nick    harryy is now known as harry (n=Harry@CPE00045a78ee3c-CM000f9f7d5f54.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
06.06.17 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Is it saying that your nick is already registered then?
06.06.25 #       <harry> yes
06.06.32 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Then you can't register it...
06.06.56 #       <harry> i reg it
06.07.02 #       <harry> but i forgot pass
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06.07.36 DBUG    Enqueued KICK TheRealHarry
06.07.45 #       <TheRealHarry> im the real harry lad
06.07.59 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> harry: Well, you're going to have to figure out what your recovery options are, or just give up on it.
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06.08.25 DBUG    Enqueued KICK BigMac
06.09.45 #       <harry> fuck
06.09.59 #       <BigMac> woo
06.10.07 #       <BigMac> watch the swearing
06.10.12 #       <harry> lol
06.10.14 #       <BigMac> there are children here
06.10.22 #       <harry> right
06.10.31 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Language like that is rather unnecessary, and it'd be preferred if you avoided it.
06.10.40 #       <harry> srry
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06.10.52 #       <harry> can i use abrevations
06.11.07 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> You aren't sorry though. You laughed at BigMac.
06.11.22 #       <harry> ffs
06.11.24 #       <harry> w/e
06.11.30 #       <BigMac> why abreviate it
06.11.36 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It's best if you use whole words and as close to proper English as you can. Many people here don't speak English natively, or use machine translation, so it becomes impossible for them to understand very quickly.
06.11.36 #       <BigMac> just don't do it
06.11.51 #       <BigMac> paul:are you esl
06.11.56 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> No, I am not.
06.11.58 #       <harry> bigmac how old r u
06.12.58 #       <BigMac> 12
06.13.11 #       <BigMac> :-)
06.14.16 #       <grimman> =(
06.14.21 #       <grimman> I'm youngest then. *sigh*
06.14.22 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> This is the official Rockbox support and development channel, so it's expected of users to behave in a reasonably responsible manner as much as they can.
06.14.42 #       <BigMac> grim how old are you
06.14.56 #       <grimman> 7
06.15.14 #       <BigMac> lol sure
06.15.29 #       <BigMac> fine im actually 8
06.15.40 #       <grimman> Nice.
06.15.42 #       <grimman> Want to marry me?
06.15.47 #       <BigMac> omg i want a helio so bad
06.15.50 #       <BigMac> ok i guess
06.15.56 Ctcp    Ignored 2 channel CTCP requests in 49 seconds at the last flood
06.15.56 #       * grimman marries BigMac.
06.15.57 #       <BigMac> but i dont kiss on the first date
06.16.04 #       <BigMac> im old fashioned like that
06.16.17 #       <BigMac> helio.com
06.16.21 #       <BigMac> =god
06.16.47 #       <grimman> Looks huge.
06.17.10 #       <grimman> I want a nano sized phone with; Colour screen. No camera. No MP3 support.
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06.17.20 #       <BigMac> i want camera
06.17.24 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Why a colour screen?
06.17.26 #       <BigMac> and internet suppot
06.17.31 #       <BigMac> support
06.17.36 #       <BigMac> i like color screen
06.17.39 #       <grimman> Paul_The_Nerd: For some kickass themes, of course. ;D
06.17.45 #       * Paul_The_Nerd sighs.
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06.17.55 #       <grimman> You sigh, old man.
06.18.03 #       <antitheist> umm... anyway, back to rockbox. can anyone here help me with the co-ordinate system used in the themes?
06.18.19 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It's the number of pixels from the top left corner
06.18.23 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> X,Y, from 0,0
06.18.27 #       <BigMac> im off to bed now
06.18.33 #       <grimman> nn, hun.
06.18.34 #       <grimman> ;)
06.18.35 #       <BigMac> ttyl
06.18.40 #       <BigMac> :-)
06.18.43 #       <antitheist> ah i see
06.18.45 #       <antitheist> thank you
06.19.01 #       <BigMac> i hope my sarah calls me in the am
06.19.28 #       <BigMac> she went to that wretched mexico
06.19.57 #       <grimman> Mmyes, mexico.
06.20.32 #       <BigMac> its been a tough week without my female
06.20.54 #       <BigMac> i believe the stones said it best with  "i cant get no,, satisfactiooooon
06.21.13 #       <grimman> Or in the words of Norther.
06.21.17 #       <grimman> Unleash hell!
06.21.18 #       <grimman> ;)
06.21.41 #       <BigMac> im lonely and that makes me said
06.21.48 #       <BigMac> what time is it in mexico
06.21.53 #       <grimman> Wheren't you leaving?
06.21.55 #       <BigMac> w/e im calling her anyway
06.22.00 #       <grimman> Weren't*
06.22.03 #       <BigMac> yah i am
06.22.08 #       <BigMac> akljdsssssssssssssssssssssl
06.22.10 #       <BigMac> bye
06.22.26 #       <grimman> Buh bye.
06.22.43 #       <grimman> Paul_The_Nerd: Back to the theme topic; what's wrong with kickass themes?
06.23.03 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> grimman: It seems kinda silly to be willing to pay extra just for the ability to have the screen look different.
06.23.25 #       <grimman> "Different" isn't quite the same as "how I want it to look". ;)
06.23.51 #       <grimman> And besides, every device nowadays has a colour screen. It just looks better.
06.24.02 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It's generally a LOT harder to read in direct sunlight.
06.24.17 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Looks better is a very relative term.
06.24.21 #       <grimman> I suppose that depends on the colour settings.
06.24.34 #       <grimman> And of course. But all my stuff looks absolutely smashing.
06.24.36 #       <grimman> ;)
06.24.45 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It depends on how close the pixels are together, and a lot of other things, rather than just color settings.
06.25.03 #       <grimman> Nyah, not quite what I meant.
06.25.23 #       <grimman> Suppose theme A has proper fonts and such, easily readable... but with absolutely horrible colour settings.
06.25.30 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> There are some color screens you can set to monochrome and they'll still be vastly less readable in direct sunlight than a monochrome screen.
06.25.49 #       <grimman> Hm.
06.25.55 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Even with identical information being displayed.
06.26.11 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Besides, color screens also tend to use more battery.
06.26.16 #       <grimman> True.
06.26.20 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> They have a negative impact on phone use in general, if all you want is a good phone.
06.27.44 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But I generally prefer hardware that only has features that reinforce what I want to do with it. Unfortunately, it's often hard to find.
06.27.51 #       <grimman> I keep wondering why devices don't have an option to turn the display off if it's been inactive or locked for a set period of time.
06.30.15 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Because for some reason people feel the display is so integral that it must be always available.
06.30.26 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Why do people load 500 WPSes onto their MP3 player, and change themes constantly?
06.30.58 Quit    harry (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06.31.08 #       <grimman> Dunno really.
06.31.16 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But they do.
06.31.23 #       <grimman> I have a bunch myself, but variations of the same one... for no reason really, I don't switch.
06.31.35 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I made my own, and stuck with it, and that was that.
06.31.35 #       <grimman> (the entire jBlackGlass package)
06.31.39 #       <grimman> hehe
06.31.55 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But to a lot of people, what's on the screen is as important, or more, than what's coming out of the earphones.
06.32.24 #       <grimman> =P
06.32.36 #       <antitheist> vanity
06.32.59 #       <grimman> All I need personally is the basic info... but since I have the option of using a good looking theme I damn well will.
06.33.50 #       <grimman> And for my part it doesn't even have to show constantly as long as I can easily bring the info up when I need it.
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06.35.04 #       <JdGordon> hey all
06.35.09 #       <JdGordon> grr @ febs :p
06.35.19 #       <grimman> Lo, JdGordon.
06.38.06 #       <JdGordon> does anyone in here have the x5 or any archos taget and has about 3min they can waste helping me out?
06.38.59 #       <scorche> JdGordon: what you need? (ajr v1
06.39.01 #       <scorche> )
06.39.20 #       <JdGordon> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5489.msg42383#msg42383 if you can ?
06.39.49 #       <JdGordon> Paul_The_Nerd: can you remove Feb's response in that thread please, mine also i guess, as its completly useless
06.40.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I'd rather not remove either response, actually
06.40.55 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> His was a valid issue, and yours is a valid response. If I were to remove his, he'd never necessarily see your response, and that could just open up a bad can of worms.
06.41.31 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06.44.14 #       <scorche> JdGordon: long menu?
06.44.30 #       <JdGordon> Paul_The_Nerd: ok, fair enough
06.44.45 #       <JdGordon> scorche: i dunno, if its not used dw about it
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06.46.48 #       <JdGordon> So, what you're saying, is that in the absolute most vague of terms the H10 port is ahead of the Sansa port? <-  haha
06.46.56 #       <grimman> Ah, it appears my idea has already been suggested. =)
06.47.45 #       <grimman> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5636
06.48.47 #       <scorche> JdGordon: done
06.48.55 #       <JdGordon> thanx alot
06.49.10 #       <scorche> anything else, lemme know
06.49.36 #       <scorche> oh...and WPS > File browser = on
06.50.05 #       <JdGordon> you forgot to say whch target in the msg :p
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06.50.26 #       <scorche> le sigh.
06.53.03 #       <JdGordon> scorche: your gonna be around for a while ye? if i code this up can you test it?
06.53.20 #       <sharpe> ahey, i'll be around for the next six hours probably! hah...
06.54.55 #       <JdGordon> sharpe: thats the recorder pad right?
06.55.05 #       <sharpe> huh?
06.55.07 #       <scorche> JdGordon: i dont have my cross-compiler set up
06.55.13 #       <scorche> but, give me a sec...
06.55.36 #       <grimman> Hrrnpf... Doom is damned hard on the iPod.
06.55.37 #       <JdGordon> i can compile it for ya, it will take a while to get it all going, no rush
06.55.44 #       <scorche> that will work
07.01.45 #       <JdGordon> scorche: whats the diff between browsing/playing quickmenu: and display quickmenu?
07.03.57 #       <scorche> borwsing/playing has shuffle (left), repeat (right), and show files (down)
07.04.36 #       <scorche> display has scrollbar (left), status bar (right), upside down (down)
07.04.47 #       <JdGordon> ah, ok
07.05.14 #       * JdGordon wonders why that screen isnt on iriver on the rec button
07.05.46 #       <scorche> as in quickmenus in general?
07.07.52 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> JdGordon: Because the record button could also simply be used for Record?'
07.08.04 #       <JdGordon> the display quickmenu, iriver has the other one
07.08.13 #       <JdGordon> Paul_The_Nerd: not in the wps or tree...
07.08.20 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Yeah it could.
07.08.39 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> A lot of people would like the ability to instantly go to record and be ready to record at any screen.
07.08.43 #       <JdGordon> scorche: Archos Recorder, Archos FM Recorder or Archos Recorder v2 ?
07.09.06 #       <scorche> v1
07.09.07 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I think the second (display) quickscreen could be reached by a long hold of A-B or Menu from the first Quickscreen, on targets without a spare button.
07.09.11 #       <scorche> so the first choice =P
07.09.18 #       <JdGordon> ye, but that button does absolutly nothing now, (me talking rehtorically)...
07.10.36 #       <antitheist> hey, would anyone here like to test my iPod nano theme before i put it on the forum?
07.11.07 #       <amiconn> The keypad of recorder v1, v2 and fm is identical. The mechanical configuration of the buttons differs a bit between v1 on one hand and v2/fm on the other, but the buttons itself are the same
07.11.31 #       <antitheist> anyone with a nano?
07.11.35 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> JdGordon: But "it doesn't do anything now" because it hasn't been finalized. It's better to leave it doing nothing, then go straight to the final use, then change it around and have people complain because they got used to it.
07.11.47 #       <grimman> antitheist: It appears you're out of luck.
07.11.58 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> antitheist: Why do you need someone with a Nano?
07.12.09 #       <JdGordon> ah ok
07.12.10 #       <antitheist> it's a theme for a nano
07.12.15 #       <amiconn> The quickmenus were supposed to get replaced by something else for a looong time.
07.12.28 #       <amiconn> On iriver and ipod they're not even strictly quick...
07.12.29 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: i was asking so i know which target to compile for :p
07.12.43 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> antitheist: But why are you specifically looking for someone with a Nano? What do you want them to do?
07.12.55 #       <antitheist> if anyone feels like it... http://www.users.on.net/~vanzati/rockbox/The_Frail.zip go for it
07.13.45 #       <scorche> JdGordon: what exactly am i testing again? =P
07.14.05 #       <JdGordon> if the buttons all "feel" right...
07.14.15 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> antitheist: Any particular reason you didn't want to put it in the WPS Gallery?
07.14.16 #       <amiconn> On archos, it's possible to press F2 or F2, and _while holding it_, press left, right or down to trigger the action. When operated this way, the quickmenu goes away when releasing F2/F3
07.14.30 #       <antitheist> i was about to
07.14.46 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: cool.. we want that also :p
07.14.48 #       <amiconn> This way of operation is impossible on iriver at least
07.14.50 #       <antitheist> thought i might be able to get some feedback to see whether or not it's worthwile
07.15.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Usually people post pics of their themes in the forums where lots of people can see it, when seeking feedback before posting. ;)
07.15.43 #       <antitheist> yeah well... this is quicker
07.16.04 #       <grimman> Apparently not. ;P
07.16.07 #       <scorche> not if anyone steps up to try it
07.16.10 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> In the sense of "Nobody's responding, so you're done."?
07.16.16 #       <amiconn> One idea was to replace the quickmenu with a user configurable menu, but nobody got around implementing that yet.
07.16.32 #       <grimman> amiconn: That would be great.
07.18.16 #       <amiconn> There are at least 2 problems to solve: (1) How to store the configuration? It has to be an efficient method. (2) What to do with the extra free button on archos recorders then (as there currently are two quickmenus)
07.18.19 Quit    midkay ("Leaving")
07.18.53 Join    midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
07.18.56 #       <sharpe> noo!
07.20.35 #       <Hulex> Idling~
07.20.41 #       <Hulex> Quick question.
07.21.13 #       <Hulex> Is there any way to avoid random "gaps" in my iPod while it's playing? rockbox somestimes acts all weird and the music skips for apparantly no reason
07.21.34 #       <Hulex> Although I do know I can't use one of the default skins since I guess it's too "busy"
07.24.50 #       <JdGordon> leave it in the file/id3 browser instead of the wos
07.24.52 #       <JdGordon> wps*
07.25.02 #       * JdGordon is getting some very wierd compile errors :'(
07.26.36 #       <Hulex> the what :O
07.26.59 #       <Hulex> oh the now playing screen?
07.27.16 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> While Playing Screen...
07.27.52 #       <Hulex> yeah I did that once...so like the big colorful fancy "rockbox" skin looks like impossible to play anything without it skipping
07.28.11 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Well there's still a lot of work to be done on iPod.
07.28.16 #       <sharpe> Hulex: do you happen to use any peak meters or the EQ? :)
07.28.28 #       <sharpe> standard "my ipod skips" questions. ahah...
07.28.31 #       <Hulex> icatcher seems to work pretty well, but doesn't allow you to fast-forward through a song :<
07.28.41 #       <Hulex> peak meters?
07.28.46 #       <Hulex> Haven't even toughed those
07.28.52 #       <Hulex> touched*
07.28.53 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> The WPS has nothing to do with the ability to fast forward...
07.29.11 #       <antitheist> now i KNOW that most of you don't care, but if u would like to see a screenshot of my theme http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5492.0 please do
07.29.14 #       <Hulex> on one of the skins, it won't allow me to fask forward
07.29.28 #       <sharpe> that's not supposed to be possible...
07.29.40 #       <Hulex> hm
07.29.43 #       <Hulex> let me try it again
07.31.12 #       <Hulex> Paul, what do you mean there's a lot of work to be done?
07.32.03 #       <Hulex> okay nevermind, working now.
07.33.13 #       <Hulex> Maybe it was cause I was playing with it a lot at work, but the battery seemed to drain really quickly too
07.33.48 #       <sharpe> you mean, compared to the apple firmware?
07.33.52 #       <Hulex> Also, completely unrelated to rockbox, I'm covered in insect bites *whine bitch moan*
07.33.58 #       <Hulex> yeah
07.34.00 #       <grimman> wiki dead?
07.34.13 #       <sharpe> yeah. that's expected... the shorter battery life...
07.34.26 #       <sharpe> wiki works fine for me.
07.34.38 #       <Hulex> I assume it spins up the harddrive more?
07.34.54 #       <grimman> nm, works again now.
07.34.58 #       <grimman> Got server error.
07.36.06 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Why would you assume it spins up the disk more?
07.36.17 #       <Hulex> I dunno
07.36.23 #       <Hulex> The gapless playback
07.36.34 #       <Hulex> Or maybe it has to work harder somehow
07.39.31 #       <JdGordon> scorche:  can i send you a rockbox.ucl to play with?
07.42.39 Quit    juxtap (Nick collision from services.)
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07.43.30 #       <grimman> Is there anywhere I can find a list of WPS(?) tags?
07.43.43 #       <scorche> JdGordon: mind just sending me a .ajz so i can run it from rolo?
07.43.47 #       <grimman> A complete list that is... and the data they hold.
07.43.50 #       <scorche> grimman: did you search the wiki?
07.44.08 #       <grimman> scorche: The closest thing I could find was the beginners guide to WPS creation.
07.44.09 #       <JdGordon> scorche: ok, didnt know there was a diff..
07.44.22 #       <grimman> Which contains a few tags.
07.45.12 #       <JdGordon> scorche: http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/ajbrec.ajz <- go into the file browser and the menus and let me know if it all woks as expected please
07.45.17 #       <scorche> grimman: search harder next time ;)   http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomWPS
07.45.39 #       <Hulex> So uh
07.45.44 #       <grimman> Mmyes, next time I will search till I drop.
07.45.45 #       <grimman> ;)
07.45.47 #       <grimman> Thanks!
07.46.00 #       <Hulex> Say if my current build is kinda buggy and is the latest I got on the page. the main one
07.46.10 #       <Hulex> Do you reccomend I try out a daily build or too risky?
07.46.31 #       <sharpe> the daily builds are just cvs builds created once a day...
07.46.42 Join    clifford [0] (i=tigger95@CableLink46-84.INTERCABLE.net)
07.46.47 #       <scorche> grimman: even a search in the wiki for "wps" includes that page
07.47.01 #       <grimman> scorche: I searched for 'tags' though.
07.47.04 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Hulex: Umm... dailys are older than CVS builds most of the time...
07.47.05 #       <grimman> So... no results for me. ;)
07.47.10 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Hulex: So, latest from what page?
07.47.13 #       <Hulex> oh wait nevermind already did
07.47.36 #       <Hulex> downloaded a daily from the main download page at the bottom
07.48.23 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: The ajbrec.ajz/archos.mod files are the archos equivalent of rockbox.iriver/rockbox.ipod. The name is that 'strange' because we couldn't choose freely. The archos firmware itself uses those namen and loads updates from disk. That's where rockbox 'hooks' in, i.e. we don't need a special bootloader on archos.
07.48.56 #       <JdGordon> ok, cool
07.49.01 #       <amiconn> Archos probably implemented it this way because the early archoses had a ROM which isn't in-circuit flashable
07.49.37 #       <scorche> JdGordon: first task...modify the contrast =P
07.49.43 #       <amiconn> The .ucl files are for flashing rockbox (after flashing a different ROM image once)
07.50.11 #       <JdGordon> scorche: ? i changed nothing but the button code, howd your contarst get fiddled with?
07.50.11 #       <amiconn> ...on archoses which allow it, i.e. some players, most v1s, and all v2/fm and Ondios
07.50.21 #       <scorche> JdGordon: no clue...
07.50.39 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Did you update cvs before compiling?
07.50.47 #       <JdGordon> no
07.50.59 #       <JdGordon> its yesterdays cvs
07.51.03 #       <amiconn> RaeNye broke the default contrast 3 (?) days ago, fixed yesterday by Linus and me
07.51.15 #       <JdGordon> ah ok
07.51.33 #       <JdGordon> maybe scorche was stil using the older build? i dunno :p
07.51.51 #       <scorche> JdGordon: pushing F1 while in menu will also return you to the WPS
07.52.48 #       <JdGordon> k
07.53.28 #       * amiconn thinks that the menu button, when pressed within a menu, should immediately leave the whole menu tree
07.53.56 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: im starting to think about giving up with this, there isnt enough genericity in the taregts for this tow ork properly :'(
07.53.59 #       * JdGordon agrees
07.54.00 #       <amiconn> Today, Left and the menu button are redundant
07.55.08 #       <scorche> JdGordon: hmmm...odd...when i pause music, it pauses immediately like it should in the headphones, however, the wps lags behind it (also follows when resuming)
07.55.12 #       <sharpe> what about yesterday? :)
07.55.14 #       <scorche> this is with default wps fyi
07.55.51 #       <JdGordon> scorche: unless your pausing it from the tree then its not my changes, i havnt touched the wps button code
07.56.00 Join    amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
07.56.09 Quit    amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
07.56.09 Nick    amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
07.56.12 #       * scorche shrugs
07.57.04 #       <amiconn> The wps always lags a bit.
07.57.12 #       <amiconn> ...on all targets
07.57.17 #       * scorche wonders why he hasnt noticed beforew
07.57.45 Join    Gnelik [0] (n=Gnelik@193.110.17.19)
07.57.50 #       <Gnelik> hi
07.58.02 #       <sharpe> good morning to you.
07.58.17 Join    Harry [0] (n=Harry@CPE00045a78ee3c-CM000f9f7d5f54.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
07.58.23 #       <Harry> hello
07.58.37 #       <Harry> quick ?
07.58.48 #       <scorche> JdGordon: besides menu, it all seems good
07.58.57 Quit    antitheist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07.58.58 #       <JdGordon> ok, great, thanks
07.59.03 Quit    ttyfscker ("Leaving")
07.59.04 #       <Harry> on a wps can i put the time and battery
07.59.07 #       <Harry> anywher
07.59.14 #       <Harry> jd u make theme?
07.59.24 #       <JdGordon> no, and yes, u can
07.59.37 #       <Harry> okay
08.00.14 #       <Harry> who heres made a theme
08.01.40 #       <midkay> Harry: check CustomWPS, you can do a lot more than time and battery. it has a list of all possible tags..
08.01.58 Quit    Harry (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08.02.06 #       <sharpe> midkay: ahah. :)
08.02.15 #       <midkay> :)
08.02.28 #       <sharpe> how's life?
08.02.50 #       <scorche> busy for him atm
08.03.05 #       <scorche> i am being mister slave driver
08.03.07 #       <sharpe> mapping?
08.03.09 Quit    sando ("blargh")
08.03.19 #       <scorche> midkay: stop being lazy!...work on the map!
08.03.27 #       * scorche cracks the whip
08.03.31 #       <clifford> crap, I hate itunes :(
08.03.53 #       <sharpe> why's that? :)
08.03.58 #       <grimman> Join the club.
08.03.58 #       <scorche> clifford: we dont use itunes here...
08.04.03 #       <Hulex> I think most box rockers hate itunes haha
08.04.20 #       <grimman> Michael Sembello - Maniac. Best theme editing song ever. ;P
08.04.27 #       <clifford> it tries to be "uhh smart" but crap it's so damn annoying
08.04.42 #       <grimman> << Doing some dirty updating of the jBlackGlass theme. So it doesn't require patching. ;)
08.05.15 Part    Paul_The_Nerd
08.05.18 #       <sharpe> "You're trying to install rockbox on your ipod and need it working as just a disk? I don't think you so you little ungrateful..."
08.05.28 #       <sharpe> wow. forget the first 'you'
08.05.29 #       <clifford> it's a joke, it takes 2 minutes with 40 seconds to open itunes in my laptop (p3 1.12 or something like thathehehe)
08.05.45 #       <grimman> clifford: So get Winamp...
08.06.11 #       <clifford> hahahahah yes, I will have to avoid itunes
08.06.20 #       <grimman> I have a reverse engineered version of the latest release that's quite light.
08.06.38 #       <clifford> grimman> itunes?
08.06.43 #       <grimman> Hahahaha.
08.06.49 #       <grimman> Never.
08.06.59 #       <clifford> grimman> so, winamp?
08.07.02 #       <grimman> Yes.
08.07.09 #       <clifford> hahaha sorry, I tend to be dumb
08.07.20 #       <grimman> http://loot.dlxmedia.net/?Winamp.zip
08.07.25 #       <grimman> No iPod support though.
08.07.31 #       <grimman> But that's not necessary with Rockbox.
08.07.46 #       <grimman> "She's a maniaaac, maaaaaaniac lalala"
08.07.54 #       <midkay> scorche: i am.
08.08.00 #       <midkay> testing some dusk/dawn lighting.
08.08.01 #       <midkay> :)
08.08.03 #       <grimman> This is the fifth or sixth time that track repeats.
08.08.05 #       <clifford> grimman> great song
08.08.15 #       <grimman> clifford: So far, yes.
08.08.16 #       <grimman> hehe
08.08.56 #       <clifford> It
08.09.06 #       <Hulex> Hm
08.09.18 #       <Hulex> I'm still miffed about having to move and re-sort all my music and stuffs
08.09.27 #       <clifford> I'm trying to fix a tagcache bug with my ipod, if I can, I will uninstall itunes gladly
08.09.29 #       <sharpe> Hulex: TagCache?
08.09.31 #       <Hulex> I need to spend a couple of days to "rockboxify" my iPod
08.09.46 #       <Hulex> Well does that work with iTunes uploaded music?
08.09.50 #       <sharpe> yes...
08.09.53 #       <grimman> Hulex: It's just a matter of mounting the iPod and copying your music to it.
08.10.04 #       <Hulex> grimman, I know
08.10.09 #       <sharpe> it indexes them based on their tag data. not their filename...
08.10.13 #       <grimman> And since they're so large... just copy it all. ;D
08.10.23 #       <Hulex> But my 20gig is filled with 20gigs of music uploaded and sorted into playlists and stuff via itunes
08.10.35 #       <grimman> That's quite something.
08.10.35 #       <Hulex> sharpe's method sounds better :O
08.10.45 #       <Hulex> My entire music collection is like
08.10.48 #       <grimman> I think I've filled some 20 gigs of mine too.
08.10.58 #       <grimman> 5 gigs of music, 15 gigs of TV series. ;P
08.10.59 #       <Hulex> 27 gigs and growing
08.11.14 #       <Hulex> I am an audiophile
08.11.30 #       <grimman> =)
08.11.32 #       <Hulex> But I have a good majority of stuff on there I listen to rarely
08.11.35 #       <Hulex> And sometimes NEVER
08.11.36 #       <scorche> what does that say about one who has around 100 gigs of music?
08.11.40 #       <grimman> I have 36 gigs... but not just stuff I would listen to myself.
08.11.42 #       <grimman> I'm a packrat. ;D
08.12.11 Join    Mordov|hardlywo [0] (n=mordov@mail.furuno.no)
08.12.16 #       <clifford> grimman> thanks for that winamp (Y)
08.12.21 #       <Hulex> grimman, same
08.12.22 #       <grimman> np
08.12.27 #       <sharpe> 19.1/76.6 gigs of a harddrive of mine are free...
08.12.39 #       <grimman> sharpe: You lucky sod.
08.12.58 #       <grimman> I have something like 2 gigs / ~500 gigs.
08.13.03 #       <Hulex> believe me if I had more harddrive space on my apple craptop here I would download like 20 more CDs
08.13.04 #       <sharpe> then 7.8/25 gigs free on another...
08.13.21 #       <Hulex> currently 9.96 available but that fluctuates wildly
08.13.27 #       <Hulex> I torrent PS2 games :x
08.13.40 #       <sharpe> Shh.
08.13.41 #       <Hulex> And my external HDD needs to be reformatted
08.13.54 #       <scorche> 3.64 gigs free out of about a terabyte...
08.13.56 #       <scorche> i need more space
08.14.05 #       <Hulex> The first rule of Sows is that we do not talk about Sows.
08.14.18 #       <Hulex> terabite
08.14.19 #       <Hulex> shit
08.14.28 #       <scorche> o_O
08.14.31 #       <Hulex> I have a measly 80 gigs here ;_;
08.14.33 Quit    jimmah ("Leaving")
08.14.46 Quit    juxtap (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08.15.08 #       <sharpe> i have things backed up on dvds i still have on one of my harddrives...
08.15.25 #       <scorche> are we including dvds now too? =P
08.15.41 #       <grimman> I suck btw.
08.15.44 #       <sharpe> nope, those are just a few dvds.
08.16.08 #       <scorche> oh....i wanted to add another terabyte on to that =(
08.16.23 #       <grimman> Had the chance to buy a brand new 400 gig external USB 2.0 drive for $200.
08.16.24 #       <Hulex> Yeah I should back stuff onto DVD
08.16.28 #       <Hulex> I have a surplus of them
08.16.29 #       <sharpe> i need to move some things to dvds...
08.16.29 #       <grimman> And I didn't.
08.16.30 #       <clifford> crap... I can barely hit 40gb and I'm getting frustrated
08.17.26 #       <sharpe> clifford: jealous of our wastefulness? :)
08.17.28 #       * scorche scrolls up to figure out where the deviation started
08.17.46 #       <clifford> wastefulness
08.17.49 #       <clifford> hehehe
08.17.59 #       <JdGordon> once i have rockbox installed onto an eyepod, would i be able to use the same hdd with an ipod and a h300 without stuffing around when i want to swap?
08.18.42 #       <clifford> brb
08.19.00 #       <scorche> JdGordon: afaik, no...
08.19.12 #       <scorche> differences in partition tables
08.19.17 #       <Hulex> sharpe
08.19.21 #       <JdGordon> oh poo :p
08.19.25 #       <Hulex> how do I like reindex my ipod or watever?
08.19.35 #       <sharpe> have you ever used tagcache before?
08.19.41 #       <Hulex> Uh
08.19.43 #       <Hulex> Maybe?
08.19.56 #       <Hulex> I have no idea. I played around with that setting on the ipod like a few times
08.20.00 #       <Hulex> i mean rockbox
08.20.01 #       <scorche> JdGordon: also, ipods are notoriously difficult to open, so i am not sure how well that would work anyway
08.20.16 #       <Hulex> Get an exacto knife
08.20.30 #       <Hulex> I opened up my 2G iPod once just out of curiosity when it finally died
08.20.41 #       <sharpe> main menu -> general settings -> file view -> tagcache -> initialize now
08.20.52 #       <Hulex> I miss that thing :< even when it failed as a music player, it made a pretty handy 10gig hard drive
08.21.14 #       <Hulex> sharpe that will like automatically find all my musics?
08.21.18 #       <sharpe> yes
08.21.23 #       <Hulex> nice
08.21.45 #       <sharpe> i have a lot of things dealing with halo 2 maps...
08.21.53 #       <sharpe> on one of my hard drives...
08.22.16 #       <Hulex> okay and stupid question how long does it take?
08.22.20 #       <scorche> halo  maps...HA!
08.22.21 #       <Hulex> and when will I know when it's done?
08.22.40 #       <scorche> Hulex: when the disk stops accessing
08.22.43 #       <sharpe> yep.
08.22.54 #       <Hulex> oh
08.23.00 #       <Hulex> I think it's done? o.o
08.23.03 #       <Hulex> Can't be
08.23.14 #       <sharpe> you can view it's progress in main menu -> info -> debug -> view tagcache info
08.23.40 #       <Hulex> o.O
08.23.43 #       <Hulex> looks like it did uh
08.23.45 #       <Hulex> Nothing.
08.23.53 #       <sharpe> what does it say?
08.24.01 #       <Hulex> progress -1%
08.24.04 #       <Hulex> 0 entries
08.24.11 #       <Hulex> Initialized: yes
08.24.14 #       <Slasheri> clifford: hmm, what kind of bug do you have with tagcache?
08.24.21 #       <Hulex> DB ready no ram cache no
08.24.24 #       <scorche> -1% is a bug
08.24.40 #       <sharpe> scorche: it's not really a bug, it's because dircache isn't enabled...
08.24.49 #       <scorche> well...
08.24.51 #       <scorche> fine..
08.24.57 #       <sharpe> hah.
08.25.10 #       <sharpe> Hulex: try going to the update tagcache option in the menus...
08.25.20 #       * scorche stops devoting 1/8th of his mind here and devotes all of it to the movie
08.25.28 #       <sharpe> ah, what movie?
08.25.36 #       <scorche> noneya
08.25.44 #       <sharpe> great movie.
08.25.50 #       <Hulex> update now?
08.25.52 #       <scorche> as in noneyabusiness
08.25.53 #       <sharpe> yes.
08.26.14 #       <Hulex> uh
08.26.21 #       <sharpe> scorche: yes, i know. hence the sarcastic "great movie."
08.26.24 #       <Hulex> when I click it/go forward literally nothing happens
08.26.45 #       <grimman> Porn, most likely.
08.27.21 Quit    grimman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08.28.24 #       <Hulex> o.O
08.28.26 #       <Hulex> I BROKE IT
08.28.32 #       <sharpe> i doubt it
08.28.37 #       <Hulex> heh
08.28.42 Join    grimman [0] (i=sco@h208n1fls35o916.telia.com)
08.28.46 #       <Hulex> but yeah update now doesn't do anything
08.29.11 #       <Hulex> what about import/export modifications?
08.29.39 #       <sharpe> nope...
08.29.57 #       <sharpe> so it still says 0 entries in the info?
08.30.15 #       <Hulex> yes
08.30.33 #       <sharpe> hooray, cygwin takes up just over a gigabyte.
08.31.06 Join    theli_ua [0] (n=aromanob@mail.ukrcard.com.ua)
08.31.16 #       <sharpe> try restarting.
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08.36.06 Part    LinusN
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08.37.53 Join    ender` [0] (i=null@84.52.165.220)
08.38.44 Quit    Gnelik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08.40.16 #       <Hulex> 5084 entries
08.40.18 #       <Hulex> Looks like it worked
08.41.13 Join    Gnelik [0] (n=gnelik@193.110.17.19)
08.41.19 #       <Hulex> uh
08.41.20 #       <Hulex> now what D:
08.41.34 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08.41.43 Quit    goffa (Remote closed the connection)
08.41.56 Join    goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105)
08.42.30 #       <sharpe> well...
08.42.34 Quit    jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08.42.52 #       <sharpe> generally restarting is what most do...
08.44.13 Quit    FOAD (Remote closed the connection)
08.45.55 #       <Hulex> again with the restarting
08.45.59 #       <sharpe> ;)
08.46.00 #       <Hulex> my ipod is windows lol
08.46.18 #       <Hulex> commiting tagcache 10 of...13? o.o
08.46.24 #       <Hulex> uhhh
08.46.32 #       <sharpe> yep
08.46.50 #       <Hulex> are there more steps involved here?
08.47.24 #       <sharpe> just to set the file view
08.48.29 Join    Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@124.60.9.97)
08.48.40 #       <Hulex> to what
08.48.42 #       <Hulex> I'm slow sorry
08.48.52 #       <sharpe> ID3 Database
08.50.08 #       <Hulex> where?
08.50.28 #       <sharpe> hold menu, and a menu should pop up...
08.50.32 #       <Jungti1234> hello
08.50.43 #       <sharpe> hi.
08.50.53 #       <Jungti1234> yep
08.50.53 #       <Hulex> sweeet
08.50.58 #       <Jungti1234> um
08.51.11 #       <Jungti1234> you can open bmp file in rockbox?
08.51.47 #       <sharpe> ironically enough i don't believe there is a viewer plugin for it, but rockbox does handle bmps for backdrops and such.
08.52.22 #       <Jungti1234> um
08.52.49 #       <Jungti1234> I can open bmp file using Rock Paint.
08.52.58 #       <sharpe> oh, i forgot about rockpaint.
08.53.16 #       <Jungti1234> but, I can't open with thing which click it.
08.53.28 #       <Hulex> shape thank yous :O
08.53.34 #       <Jungti1234> Must use 'Open with ....'.
08.53.34 #       <sharpe> welcome.
08.53.46 #       <Hulex> Now I just gotta figure out a way to create/import my iPod playlists
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08.53.54 #       <Jungti1234> It's uncomfortable.
08.54.04 #       <sharpe> ah. there's not an entry for it in the viewers file...
08.54.08 #       <Jungti1234> viewers.config?
08.54.10 #       <sharpe> si
08.54.30 #       <Jungti1234> Of course, it's modified.
08.54.45 #       <Jungti1234> It's added already.
08.54.58 #       <Jungti1234> But, it doesn't work.
08.55.02 #       <sharpe> sounds like a problem then.
08.55.12 #       <Jungti1234> there seems to be some problem.....
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08.55.42 #       <Jungti1234> Do you understand viewers.config?
08.55.53 #       <sharpe> yep
08.56.09 #       <Jungti1234> Can you find its problem?
08.56.16 #       <sharpe> ah... i suppose...
08.56.25 #       <Jungti1234> hm
08.56.49 #       <Jungti1234> bmp,rocks/rockpaint, 01 10 01 10 01 10
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08.57.08 #       <sharpe> extension, viewer location, icon
08.57.11 #       <sharpe> is the format.
08.57.45 #       <Jungti1234> yes I know
08.58.03 #       <Jungti1234> I know it... but
08.58.11 #       <Jungti1234> It didn't works.
08.58.37 #       <Jungti1234> don't open bmp file.
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08.59.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Does it show up in the "Open With" menu?
08.59.44 #       <sharpe> indeed it does, i can confirm...
08.59.50 #       <Jungti1234> nono, It show up there.
09.00.09 #       <Jungti1234> [15:53:20] <Jungti1234> but, I can't open with thing which click it.
09.00.12 #       <Hulex> God this is so awesome now :O
09.01.02 #       <hardeep> i beg to differ, it was always awesome
09.01.27 #       <Hulex> It wasn't awesome without music
09.01.40 #       <Hulex> And omg the backlight comes on when it prepares for the next track~
09.03.12 #       <Hulex> Now I gotta tweak some of my mp3s from certain albums that have some songs fade into each other
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09.03.51 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Can viewers.config set a default if Rockbox recognizes the filetype outside of it?
09.04.04 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> For example, could one set a default action for .wav to be "convert to MP3" by accident?
09.04.22 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> You may notice that they're in there, and yet wavs still play, so I would assume not.
09.04.45 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> So maybe it can't have a default action since it's a filetype recognized in firmware.
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09.05.03 #       <Jungti1234> difficult english....
09.05.14 #       <Hulex> okay sharpe
09.05.22 #       <Hulex> I don't want to bug you like all night
09.05.22 #       <sharpe> yes?
09.05.31 #       <sharpe> eh, it's okay, i've got three more hours to kill.
09.05.49 #       <Hulex> Is there something somewhere I can read that will tell me how to create playlists or import my playlists from my default ipod firmware?
09.06.12 #       <sharpe> oooh. from the apple firmware...
09.06.20 #       <sharpe> highly doubt it.
09.06.21 #       <Jungti1234> Paul_The_Nerd
09.06.43 #       <Hulex> Fair enough.
09.06.50 #       <Jungti1234> is it mean to me?
09.06.53 #       <Hulex> Manually making/remaking playlists is kinda fun in a way
09.07.05 #       <Hulex> How do I do it the normal way then?
09.07.21 #       <sharpe> Jungti1234: he's saying it's probably because the firmware's action of that file type takes precedence over viewers.config.
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09.07.50 #       <Jungti1234> hmm
09.07.54 #       <Jungti1234> I can't understand...
09.08.08 #       <midkay> sharpe: you need to be simpler..
09.08.21 #       <Jungti1234> Rock Paint support bmp viewer
09.08.22 #       <Jungti1234> no?
09.08.24 #       <midkay> Jungti1234: Rockbox uses playlists directly..
09.08.31 #       <midkay> Jungti1234: i believe so.
09.09.07 #       <Jungti1234> Its other function is viewer.
09.09.35 #       <Jungti1234> bmp file can't play.
09.09.36 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Jungti1234: The default function is "do nothing"
09.09.44 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> This is in the firmware, not viewers.config.
09.09.49 #       <Jungti1234> ah...!
09.10.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Because you can "Set as Backdrop" so the firmware must recognize and have control.
09.10.28 #       <Hulex> Okay now an easy question
09.10.32 #       <Hulex> When something is playing
09.10.38 #       <Hulex> How do I go back to my ID3 list?
09.10.47 #       <Hulex> since menu brings up options
09.10.56 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> While in WPS, just tap Select.
09.11.06 #       <Jungti1234> Then, do I change it?
09.11.14 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Jungti1234: You cannot right now
09.11.30 #       <Jungti1234> Because I don't know C?
09.11.30 #       <Hulex> oh
09.11.31 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Hulex: That, and other useful tidbits can be found within the manual and FAQ that many have generously contributed to.
09.11.41 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Jungti1234: Pretty much.
09.11.54 #       <Jungti1234> haha, what's mean 'Pretty'
09.12.17 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Jungti1234: It's a phrase meaning "What you said means the same thing as what was said before"
09.12.55 #       <Jungti1234> I know its meaning is 'beauty'.
09.13.14 #       <sharpe> hooray for different contexts
09.14.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Jungti1234: The word "pretty" on its own means beauty, yes, but the phrase "pretty much" usually means "What you said is mostly correct" or "What you said is the same as what I tried to say"
09.14.17 #       <Jungti1234> ok.
09.14.28 #       <Jungti1234> english is difficult....
09.14.52 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> It is unfortunate.
09.15.05 #       <Jungti1234> why.. hehe :)
09.15.20 #       <Jungti1234> ah,
09.15.30 #       <Jungti1234> I make WPS using my H300.
09.16.06 #       <Jungti1234> Use text editer and rock paint...
09.16.22 #       <Jungti1234> hehe
09.17.49 #       <Jungti1234> So, I feel much discomfort.
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09.20.09 #       <excitatory> lol
09.22.07 #       <excitatory> Jungti1234: yes, english is quite the joke.
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09.32.47 #       <Gnelik> LinusN: Do you work on Sansa port or Badger only do?
09.33.14 #       <LinusN> only bagder atm
09.33.16 #       <Gnelik> sory
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09.38.32 #       <JdGordon> morning LinusN, can i bug you for a bit?
09.39.14 #       <Jungti1234> in, out, in, out, in, out....
09.40.04 #       <LinusN> Jungti1234: hehe, i'm reconfiguring my irc client
09.40.09 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: bug me
09.40.34 #       <JdGordon> :)
09.41.13 #       <JdGordon> do you tihnk we can do the wps keys in a seperate button list? because the buttons there really dont mesh well between the targets
09.42.09 #       <JdGordon> also, iv dont the action stuff for the colour picker screen which used the ipod slider for left/right instead of updown and its not complicated at all, if you want to see the diff
09.42.49 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: so the wps would use its own action list?
09.43.23 #       <JdGordon> ye, well actually im still not sure, i need someone elses head thinking about it also :D
09.43.45 #       <JdGordon> i mean, the main problem is the action names really dont fit the wps
09.44.01 #       <JdGordon> and i guess its such a large part it would be ok?
09.44.14 #       <LinusN> well, shouldn't there be actions like ACTION_NEXT_TRACK etc?
09.44.33 #       <JdGordon> http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/button_cp.diff shows how to use non standard keys
09.45.24 #       <JdGordon> yes, but its either done like #define ACTION_NEXT_TRACK ACTION_RIGHT_OK or redefined in a new list, i tinhk the 2nd is better tho
09.46.21 #       <LinusN> ACTION_RIGHT_OK?
09.46.51 #       <JdGordon> a more generic version of right..
09.47.33 #       * JdGordon thinks the directions should be named, even if not all targets have them
09.48.11 #       <LinusN> but shouldn't ACTION_OK be a separate action?
09.48.48 #       <JdGordon> i guess its like a "soft" OK, on iriver there is 3 different OK actions
09.49.12 #       <JdGordon> the right arrow being the soft  one, select and on being more "forced"  i guess.. i cant tihnk of a better word
09.49.48 #       <LinusN> maybe we should take a step back and thing again about what problems we want to solve here
09.49.52 #       <LinusN> think
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09.50.35 #       <LinusN> one problem is the various _PRE crappo stuff
09.50.59 #       <LinusN> another is the various remote control button maps
09.51.34 #       <LinusN> and then we have the huge #ifdef lumps in each file for the button mapping
09.51.57 #       <LinusN> did i forget anything?
09.52.07 #       <JdGordon> no, i dont think so
09.52.42 #       <LinusN> i think we need to define exactly what an "action" is here
09.52.57 #       <JdGordon> this solves the remote by having a seperate list for each remote and having a global variable which can be set at runtime for which remote is being used, so thats fine
09.53.39 #       <LinusN> but won't we have to duplicate the entire default action list then?
09.54.03 #       <JdGordon> only the buttons that are different
09.54.26 #       <LinusN> i don't understand
09.54.39 #       <JdGordon> you'd have 4 lists for remotes, the default one, then 1 for each that changes the defualt keys.
09.55.27 #       <JdGordon> dw about that for the time being, thats the eaisest part once we have _something_ implemented...
09.55.29 #       <LinusN> so there are actually two default action lists, one for the remote and one for the main unit?
09.55.38 #       <JdGordon> ye
09.55.43 #       <JdGordon> no
09.55.48 #       <JdGordon> well.. either way :p
09.56.17 #       <LinusN> nm
09.56.36 #       <LinusN> so, what is an "action" in your concept?
09.57.31 #       <JdGordon> I've tryed to make them what the code throughout the core actually does with the buttons.
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09.58.13 #       <JdGordon> so almost all the button loops have a _EXIT define which ive turned into an action, most often this is the off button
09.58.17 #       <JdGordon> etc
09.58.56 #       <LinusN> iirc, when we discussed this concept at devcon, we imagined actions like NEXT_TRACK, CANCEL, PLAY etc
09.59.22 #       <Bg3r> LinusN: but the actions are different in the different screen contexts ...
09.59.25 #       <JdGordon> the problem with that is the english doesnt fit. why would you check for NEXT_TRACK in the menu context?
09.59.41 #       <LinusN> yes, i see the problem
09.59.48 #       <JdGordon> the easy way is to just #define NEXT_TRACK ACTION_RIGHT
10.00.18 #       <Bg3r> i think it'll be more apropriate to have a new action list for the WPS
10.01.03 #       <JdGordon> it would also make things easier, becuase in the menu it doesnt need to wait for the release before triggering a direction like it does in the wps
10.01.04 #       <LinusN> the idea is of course to have as few special cases in the code as possible
10.01.20 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: 2 cases, WPS and everywhere else
10.01.23 #       <hardeep> why would the menu have a NEXT_TRACK action?
10.01.35 #       <hardeep> shouldn't we decouple actions from buttons?
10.01.37 #       <JdGordon> hardeep: thats what im saying, it wouldnt
10.01.53 #       <hardeep> JdGordon: i don't understand the problem you're describing though
10.01.59 #       <hardeep> how would it ever be an option in the menu?
10.02.05 #       <Bg3r> LinusN: really, we can't know what the manufacturers of the next rockbox target will chose for volume up
10.02.06 #       <LinusN> so how do we decouple actions from buttons in a generic way?
10.02.08 #       <Bg3r> (for example)
10.02.11 #       <Bg3r> what key
10.02.34 #       <hardeep> so, wps context has a NEXT_TRACK action but tree, menu etc. doesn't
10.02.46 #       <JdGordon> my idea only allows each button combo to return one value, so either NEXT_TRACK and ACTION_RIGHT are given the same value, or you have to check for NEXT_TRACK in the menu which makes it difficult to read
10.02.46 #       <LinusN> or are we talking about generic buttons instead of "actions"
10.02.47 #       <LinusN> ?
10.03.19 #       <hardeep> but RIGHT isn't an "action", it's a button pressed to invoke an action
10.03.45 #       <LinusN> back to my original question, what exactly is an "action"?
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10.04.31 #       <Bg3r> hardeep: RIGHT can be an action in the plugins
10.04.35 #       <hardeep> imo, an action should be the commands available in a particular context
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10.04.52 #       <hardeep> like you said earier, NEXT, PLAY, CANCEL etc.
10.04.55 #       <JdGordon> hardeep: while keeping them generic as possible.. you cant win everywhere.. (unfortunatly)
10.05.13 #       <hardeep> JdGordon: i'm not saying make them generic... they should be specific to a context
10.05.20 #       <Bg3r> yep
10.05.23 #       <hardeep> there are some actions that span contexts
10.05.30 #       <hardeep> but most will be specific
10.05.35 #       <Bg3r> but in fact we don't have so many contexts
10.05.42 #       <LinusN> ok, so each screen would define the action list, much like we do today?
10.05.49 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: you did forget 1 thing we want to fix, having to define buttons everywhere
10.06.01 #       <hardeep> btw, one extra "requirement" i'd like to propose is the possibility of user defined button mappings
10.06.06 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: yes, but maybe we can't solve that
10.06.11 #       <JdGordon> we want to get rid of as many contexts as possible
10.06.32 #       <LinusN> hardeep: yes, we might want to make that possible
10.06.54 #       <Bg3r> hardeep: afaics the JdGordon's idea allows this
10.07.00 #       <JdGordon> it does
10.07.13 #       <hardeep> not if we define an ACTION_RIGHT
10.07.20 #       <hardeep> unless it's referring to a movement, not a button
10.07.21 #       <JdGordon> http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/button_cp.diff shows the ipod keys being redefined for that one screen
10.08.50 #       <LinusN> one goal of this exercise is to try to centralize the button mapping
10.09.22 #       <LinusN> i.e not have to edit 17 files with button maps when we add a new target
10.09.36 #       <hardeep> definitely
10.10.07 #       <LinusN> i guess this is where the default action list comes in
10.10.07 #       <JdGordon> that is addressed by my code 99%, i added the recorder keypad and it worked pretty much as soon as the list was added
10.10.53 #       <JdGordon> the question is is seperating the wps list from the rest acceptable?
10.11.16 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: the plugins are the worst culprits when it comes to key mapping
10.11.35 #       <JdGordon> i agree
10.11.55 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: i believe the wps, the fm screen and the recording screen will have separate maps
10.12.03 #       <JdGordon> but this should move easily to the plugins, so i dont tihnk it will be a problem
10.12.31 #       <JdGordon> so 4 different default lists then? (*2 for targets with remote?)
10.13.35 #       <JdGordon> @ 12bytes / item.. its all gonna add up pretty quicky...
10.14.00 #       <LinusN> yup
10.15.10 #       <JdGordon> maybe then the best thing is to cheat and redefine some values to give them better names for the wps/fm/rec contexts?
10.15.29 #       <LinusN> that's not cheating imo
10.15.49 #       <LinusN> each action should have a name that fits the context
10.16.32 #       <LinusN> in my world, there would be a huge list of possible actions
10.17.15 #       <LinusN> and the action list just tells which button combo triggers which action
10.17.49 #       <JdGordon> hows this look? (the action list enum)
10.17.51 #       <JdGordon> /* directions */
10.17.51 #       <JdGordon>     ACTION_UP_PREV,
10.17.51 #       <JdGordon>     ACTION_WPS_VOLUP = ACTION_UP_PREV,
10.17.51 DBUG    Enqueued KICK JdGordon
10.17.51 #       <JdGordon>     ACTION_DOWN_NEXT,
10.17.52 #       <JdGordon>     ACTION_WPS_VOLDOWN = ACTION_DOWN_NEXT,
10.17.57 #       <JdGordon> ...
10.18.20 #       <LinusN> i'd rather have separate values for every action
10.19.11 #       <JdGordon> then we need a better way to return a value. maybe we limit the values to 0-511 and then we can store 4 values for 4 different contexts in the one int?
10.19.15 #       <Bg3r> why "ACTION_UP_PREV" ?
10.19.19 #       <JdGordon> list
10.19.45 #       <LinusN> my idea is to have separate lists for each context
10.20.08 #       <LinusN> with each action having a unique value
10.20.12 #       <JdGordon> I like that also, but that will hit the ram usage..
10.20.31 #       <LinusN> why?
10.20.48 #       <JdGordon> isnt the array loaded into ram?
10.20.52 #       <LinusN> each action list would only contain the actions for that context
10.21.55 #       <LinusN> hmmm
10.22.03 #       <JdGordon> wont they need to be static struct blaa = {..}; and isnt that loaded into ram anyway?
10.22.37 #       <LinusN> yes, but why would the ram usage be higher because the action id's are unique?
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10.24.14 #       <JdGordon> becuase all the buttons need to be redefined...
10.24.25 #       <LinusN> ah, yes
10.24.44 #       <JdGordon> how about this? #define RETVAL(s,w,f,r) ((s&0xff000000)&(w&0x00ff0000)&(f&0x0000ff00)&(r&0x000000ff)) and then you pass the context to the functoin and it will return the code for that combo for that context?
10.24.59 #       <JdGordon> s == standard, w = wps, f = fm, r = rec
10.25.27 #       <LinusN> that would be hard to extend with new contexts
10.25.41 #       <JdGordon> yeah
10.26.11 #       <LinusN> ok, so what we have now is a mechanism that at least cleans up the _PRE mess
10.26.36 #       <JdGordon> and centralises most button mapping
10.26.54 #       <JdGordon> and removes 99% of the #ifdefs in button loops
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10.27.43 #       <LinusN> can i see the entire patch again?
10.27.52 #       <JdGordon> sure, 1 min
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10.28.39 #       <LinusN> i'm thinking about the ACTION_UP_PREV action in your color slider example
10.29.15 #       <LinusN> can we be sure that UP and PREV are the same action on all targets?
10.29.17 #       <JdGordon> actually, why are we worrying about mem usage? 12b* lets say 100 buttons over the whole code? even with 4 contexts.. thats still less than 2kb "wasted"
10.29.39 #       <JdGordon> we cant be sure about anything, but its easy to fix if they arnt
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10.29.48 #       <LinusN> i'm more worried about looping through huge lists for every button press'
10.30.24 #       <sharpe> lists are always fun.
10.30.44 #       <JdGordon> http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/button_changes.patch
10.31.25 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: ye, that is bad, but if the 100 buttons are split then its only 25 in each list, which is much nicer
10.31.40 #       <JdGordon> and if its the same as the prev button then it jumps to that item anyway
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10.32.12 #       <JdGordon> there is some comments in that patch now btw :)
10.34.26 #       <LinusN> let's go back to ACTION_UP_PREV
10.34.40 #       <LinusN> what exactly is that action supposed to mean?
10.35.21 #       <LinusN> is it the action to use when moving the cursor in a menu?
10.35.28 #       <JdGordon> ye
10.35.53 #       <LinusN> ok, so on the archos player, it would be defined as:
10.36.14 #       <LinusN> BUTTON_LEFT, ACTION_UP_PREV
10.36.49 #       <LinusN> since there are no UP/DOWN buttons on the player
10.37.05 #       <JdGordon> umm.. hmm
10.37.37 #       <JdGordon> damn, the player is severly short of buttons :p
10.37.41 #       <LinusN> yes
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10.38.02 #       <hardeep> what's wrong with calling it ACTION_MENU_PREV ?
10.38.18 #       <LinusN> hardeep: that's where i am going :-)
10.38.45 #       <LinusN> my idea is having unique action id's for all actions
10.38.51 #       <man_in_shack> http://qdb.us/61757 << wheee
10.38.54 #       <hardeep> LinusN: the only negative to the idea you proposed (which i wholeheartedly agree with btw) is memory, which doesn't seem all that significant
10.39.08 #       <JdGordon> that means then that on targets like h300 you lwill lose the multiple options for some actions (going into a menu for example)
10.39.27 #       <LinusN> no
10.39.29 #       <hardeep> JdGordon: how so?
10.39.47 #       <LinusN> you just define several button combos that trigger the same action
10.40.07 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10.40.07 #       * JdGordon is a dill, yes your 100% correct
10.41.36 #       <JdGordon> losing the direction acions would mean more places would be adding their own keys tho, maybe its better to treat the player as a special case where the default actions are no good?
10.41.37 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10.42.13 #       <hardeep> what's wrong with adding their own keys?
10.42.27 #       <JdGordon> we want to centralize the key defines
10.43.02 #       <JdGordon> we either lose that or bring back #ifdefs :'(
10.43.06 #       <LinusN> i'm beginning to think that we won't be able to centralize it very well
10.43.07 #       <hardeep> we can still centralize it
10.43.21 #       * JdGordon is gonna have a crack at doing the player keys
10.43.31 #       <JdGordon> should you guys be working or something? :D
10.43.44 #       <hardeep> i don't understand why this would prevent centralization
10.43.58 #       <hardeep> it would prevent common actions across contexts, but we can still centralize where all actions are defined
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10.44.28 #       <LinusN> hardeep: i guess you mean having all actions for all contexts in one file?
10.44.38 #       <hardeep> LinusN: yes
10.44.42 #       <LinusN> as one list per context
10.44.46 #       <hardeep> yes
10.44.51 #       <LinusN> i'm with you
10.45.17 #       <LinusN> then there is only one thing left to solve, and that is the plugins
10.45.35 #       <JdGordon> how are plugins a problem?
10.45.36 #       <LinusN> each plugin is a context of its own
10.45.47 #       <JdGordon> they could use the standard context or make their own
10.45.48 #       <hardeep> it would have to be, but not in our central list
10.46.00 #       <hardeep> it could be defined in the plugin itself
10.46.19 #       <LinusN> so each plugin would still have to be edited when we add a new target
10.46.31 #       <JdGordon> not nescacerily
10.46.31 #       <linuxstb> We could have the contexts in the plugin lib - and a new plugin would either choose an existing one from there, or add a new one.
10.46.52 #       <JdGordon> why couldnt the plugins use the standard context?
10.47.03 #       <hardeep> depends on the plugin
10.47.11 #       <hardeep> games are usually non-standard for instance
10.47.12 #       <JdGordon> with some #defininng to make thing snnicer to the coder
10.47.30 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Yes, they could also choose a standard context if that's appropriate.
10.47.33 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb makes a good point, we can have a plugin context in the libs for them
10.48.15 #       <linuxstb> Or have a "base context", that they extend.  e.g. games which need four directions of movement, plus "action" could use a context for that, etc.
10.49.16 #       <JdGordon> yup
10.49.42 #       <JdGordon> so, we get rid of the left/right actions because they are just duplicating other actions?
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10.51.04 #       <linuxstb> I agree with hardeep that "left/right" are rarely actions - unless you're moving something around the screen.
10.51.28 #       <Bg3r> but they are suitable for the plugins
10.51.48 #       <linuxstb> Some plugins, yes - those are the cases where you are actually moving something around the screen.
10.52.53 #       <hardeep> i have a feeling that going through the plugins will show that there are only a handful of different actions being used
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10.53.14 #       <JdGordon> ye, plugins wont cause much of a problem
10.53.31 #       <hardeep> so we could even define the 3-4 different contexts inside the pluglin lib and let those be used
10.53.37 #       <linuxstb> Exactly.
10.53.48 #       <hardeep> as linuxstb suggested... =)
10.54.09 #       <hardeep> i can't think of any offhand that do anything really funky
10.54.40 #       <hardeep> maybe doom/rockboy
10.54.45 #       <linuxstb> What about plugins that use button_status() instead of the button events?
10.55.15 #       <linuxstb> i.e. doom/rockboy :)
10.55.36 #       <linuxstb> And I think pacbox does as well.  Because they're emulating other button hardware.
10.55.38 #       * JdGordon never intended of removing the lowlevel button stuff, so its still there if they need it
10.56.12 #       <aliask> Yeah, I certainly think there should still be the option to be specific about what buttons to use.
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10.58.18 #       <LinusN> i don't think we can solve all problems with button mapping in the plugins
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10.58.31 #       <LinusN> i'm happy if we solve 70% of them
10.58.47 #       <LinusN> btw, many plugins have their own menus
10.59.02 #       <hardeep> only ones that use button_status() are brickmaina, wav2wv, doom, packbox and rockboy
10.59.03 #       <linuxstb> That's a pet-hate of mine...
10.59.06 #       <LinusN> using the rockbox menus for that would solve many mappings automagically
10.59.16 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: amen
10.59.21 #       <JdGordon> ok, so now i have a problem... Iv removed the left/right actions, now, in the colour picker it actually does need a left/right action, when this sort of thing happens do we use the ACTION_USER+x value? #define our value? or put it in the value list?
10.59.32 #       <sharpe> i have nothing to do. i'm rewriting paging code. gah.
11.00.06 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: You don't need left/right in the colour picker - you have something like "increment slider", "decrement slider"
11.00.11 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: well, that would apply to the eq as well, wouldn't it?
11.00.23 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: exactly
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11.01.06 #       <linuxstb> And the "next list item", "previous list item" actions choose the different sliders.
11.01.09 #       <Bg3r> the same keys as the ones in the settings
11.01.10 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: ah, but if we add increment/decremenet we cant use the left/right buttons in the menus anymore, because they are mapped to select and cancel
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11.01.42 #       <linuxstb> Isn't a screen with a list of sliders a different context to the menu?
11.01.45 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: they are not the same contexts
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11.02.25 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: with this concept, we would have plenty of contexts
11.02.27 #       <JdGordon> then there is going to be way too many contexts that it almost defeats the purpose of the whole thing
11.02.41 #       <LinusN> i beg to differ
11.02.55 #       <JdGordon> your the boss :D
11.03.44 #       <LinusN> with this concept, we would have a huge file with all the different action lists for each context in rockbox
11.03.58 #       <LinusN> but it would be centralized
11.04.09 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Rather than button mappings split across tons of files.
11.04.19 #       <JdGordon> ok, i get ya
11.04.38 #       <LinusN> another benefit is that each list would be rather small
11.05.07 #       <JdGordon> and there would be one central list of action values which would be huge?
11.05.24 #       <LinusN> those are only #define's
11.05.25 #       <linuxstb> As an incremental way of implementing this, how about taking all the existing button definitions - tree.h, list.h, wps.h etc etc and putting them in one central .h file?  We could then try and refine that list, removing any duplication.  After that, convert them to contexts and actions.
11.05.50 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: yes
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11.06.14 #       * JdGordon sort of did that ages ago, first message in the mailing list has that list
11.06.19 #       <JdGordon> but some may have changed
11.06.28 #       <LinusN> i think that is a way forward
11.06.56 #       <LinusN> only one thing to consider: how can we allow user defined buttons?
11.07.25 #       <LinusN> can you say "can of worms"? :-)
11.07.32 #       <hardeep> i think that would be phase 2 =)  adding this mechanism would make it possible
11.07.40 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Don't allow user defined buttons for an action.
11.07.40 #       <_FireFly_> for this we would need an array with the current button mapping which can be changed
11.07.45 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Allow user defined actions for a button.
11.08.21 #       <JdGordon> we should still have a standad set of actions to stop having to define the same keys over and over again
11.08.25 #       * linuxstb shudders
11.08.25 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Then it'd be like a custom context..
11.08.40 #       * JdGordon doubts custom keys would work
11.08.42 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: i fear that this standard set would be rather small
11.08.46 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I don't really like the idea of custom keys anyway.
11.09.00 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Outside of, if there is a one button queue choice, to allow toggle between queue and insert.
11.09.14 #       <LinusN> to quote bagder: "you'll drag me kicking and screaming into that mess"
11.09.15 #       <hardeep> Paul_The_Nerd: i can't believe you, of all people, is saying that considering all the forum questions about it =)
11.09.52 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> hardeep: I'm FIRMLY against Record being one-button queue.
11.10.09 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> hardeep: I'm not so much against making the Select/NAVI and Right buttons do different things when you hit them on a file.
11.10.13 #       <hardeep> hehe, I see no reason for letting people do that if they want
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11.10.43 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> I think Record should have a set function, whatever it ends up being, instead of being treated as an up for grabs button.
11.11.02 #       <hardeep> well, i'm all for making all the buttons up for grabs, not just rec
11.11.19 #       <hardeep> if someone wants up to go down in tree, why not!
11.11.36 #       <JdGordon> hardeep: there is an optoin for that..
11.11.40 #       <LinusN> hardeep: my main argument against user-defined buttons is that it is a nightmare to support
11.11.52 #       <JdGordon> dinner time, back in a while
11.11.56 #       <hardeep> LinusN: yeah, that's definitely something to consider
11.12.03 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> My main argument against it is exactly the same as LinusN's.
11.12.12 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> ;)
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11.12.22 #       <safetydan> the filename length limit of 255 is inherent to FAT right?
11.12.26 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> But really, it also seems like a good way to complicate the code for very little gain.
11.13.26 #       <hardeep> i think it's one of those things that someone can experiment with, knowing that there's no guarantee it'll make it into cvs
11.13.47 #       <Paul_The_Nerd> Well, everything is one of those. :)
11.14.19 #       <hardeep> the mechanism that everyone's proposing for handling buttons will allow it which is the important thing
11.15.51 #       <LinusN> safetydan: yes
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11.16.26 #       <safetydan> righto then
11.16.34 #       <hardeep> i think it might be all windows filesystems... i hit the limit on my ntfs partition
11.16.48 #       <LinusN> hardeep: i suppose so
11.20.00 #       <hardeep> interesting, ext2 and ext3 also have the same limit
11.20.12 #       <hardeep> reiser is 4k
11.21.39 #       <safetydan> 255 chars should be enough for anyone :)
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11.23.14 #       <sharpe> 640k should be enough. :D
11.23.25 #       <hardeep> actually, 255 bytes, not chars
11.24.00 #       <safetydan> point
11.24.56 #       <hardeep> sorry, just reading the wiki page on filesystems, surprisingly interesting =)
11.25.02 #       <safetydan> I wonder if it would be easier to use UTF-16/UCS-2 internally in Rockbox since most strings then would be a fixed number of bytes
11.25.28 #       <safetydan> nah, probably too much memory wastage for the normal case
11.25.39 #       * safetydan goes back to porting libm
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11.45.00 #       * JdGordon is back
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12.10.24 #       <JdGordon> LinusN, linuxstb, Bg3r, hardeep, something like this perhaps for each target? http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/keyconfig-h1x0_h3x0.h ?
12.12.59 #       <Bg3r> do we need to distinguish remote from the main ?
12.13.31 #       <LinusN> i think we do
12.13.42 #       <LinusN> not sure though
12.13.42 #       <JdGordon> most of the time no
12.14.08 #       <Bg3r> yep, *most* of the time...
12.14.19 #       <JdGordon> bye bye ACTION_RC then :p
12.14.46 #       <Bg3r> switch (get_action()){ ACTION_SELECT: ACTION_RC_SELECT: blabla ; break; blabla }
12.14.49 #       <LinusN> sound reasonable
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12.16.06 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: this looks almost exactly what i had in mind
12.16.13 #       <Bg3r> someone who thinks that we will see different screens (like plugin on the main, wps on the remote) on the 2 displays in the near future ?
12.16.29 #       <Bg3r> yep
12.16.40 #       <Bg3r> except that the 2 vars are with the same name ;)
12.16.47 #       <LinusN> yes, i saw that too
12.16.49 #       <JdGordon> Bg3r: the vkeyboard is a good example of 2 diff screens
12.17.04 #       <JdGordon> fixed
12.17.31 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: 2 different screens ?
12.17.34 #       <JdGordon> its still gonna suck adding a new target, but it will suck alot less :p
12.17.35 #       <JdGordon> yup
12.18.02 #       <JdGordon> so depending on which display u press a button youll get a different char added to the text
12.18.10 #       * Bg3r hasn't used his h340 since 8th of july ... broken earbuds
12.19.11 #       <Bg3r> vkeyboard is a context which needs ACTION_UP/ACTION_RIGHT etc ... :)
12.19.27 #       <JdGordon> would it be ok to do static struct button_code button_context_wps[]  = NULL; for targets that the standard one is fine to make coding the loop easier?
12.20.28 #       <JdGordon> or even better change the NULL to {} or is that naughty?
12.21.01 #       <Bg3r> i don't think  u can assign NULL to an array
12.21.36 #       <LinusN> you can't use the default mapping anyway
12.21.52 #       <LinusN> it doesn't contain the ACTION_WPS_* actions
12.21.58 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Doesn't the list code do different things for "NEXT" and "NEXT|REPEAT" ?  i.e. it won't wrap on a REPEAT event.
12.22.13 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: what happens when u plug the h300 remote with this list ?
12.22.31 #       <Bg3r> linuxstb: ah, yes
12.22.45 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: that was a bad example, ignore the _wps part...
12.22.52 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: damn, yes your right
12.23.13 #       <JdGordon> Bg3r: dunno, havnt actually compiled it with rc support yet
12.23.30 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: i mean
12.23.38 #       <Bg3r> how would the code change this mapping
12.24.04 #       <JdGordon> should the get_action button have a int* param so the caller can get the raw button code if they want to check things like REPEAT ?
12.24.24 #       <JdGordon> which mapping?
12.24.58 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: for example this button_context_standard is suited for h100 remote
12.25.09 #       <Bg3r> we need other mapping button->action for the h300 remote
12.26.10 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Or maybe have extra actions - e.g. ACTION_NEXT and ACTION_REPEATED_NEXT.   Most of the time, repeat is just checked to identify long presses.
12.26.45 #       <LinusN> i'd go for the extra actions
12.27.16 #       <JdGordon> oh, right, i tinhk it will need a different remote list for each remote that has all the changed button codes for all the different contexts and then the one to use can be chosen at runtime
12.27.44 #       <JdGordon> ok, more actions it is..
12.27.55 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: or a possibility to change the mappings ...
12.28.57 #       <JdGordon> either would work.. you can change a static array cant you?
12.29.06 #       <Bg3r> yes, u can
12.29.26 #       <Bg3r> except if it's  const
12.31.10 #       <JdGordon> ok, so shouldnt be a problem
12.31.50 #       <Bg3r> yep
12.32.24 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: but ...
12.32.53 #       <JdGordon> no buts.. one thing at a time
12.32.59 #       <JdGordon> :D
12.33.09 #       <Bg3r> how would this deal with the wps-a sh.itty combos ...
12.33.29 #       <Bg3r> like short - long
12.33.37 #       <Bg3r> for next dir
12.34.11 #       <linuxstb> Get rid of them :)
12.34.18 #       <Bg3r> hehe :)
12.34.28 #       <linuxstb> Isn't there an alternative anyway?
12.34.30 #       <Bg3r> linuxstb: this would be a feature, yep ?:)
12.35.00 #       <Bg3r> i don't know for such ...
12.35.15 #       <Bg3r> hm
12.35.40 #       <Bg3r> maybe we can just change it with (for the irivers) play + next ?
12.36.22 #       <linuxstb> But that wouldn't be so good on other targets with fewer buttons.  Although it could just be a context menu option.
12.38.09 #       <JdGordon> which option?
12.38.21 #       <JdGordon> next dir, ah
12.38.24 #       <Bg3r> ok, which is the target with least buttons ?
12.38.24 #       <JdGordon> missed that..
12.38.32 #       <Bg3r> JdGordon: yep, a bad one :(
12.38.58 #       <JdGordon> i love that option, anyway, it doesnt matter if one taregt hasnt got a combo for it, it can still be in the switch with no problems
12.39.42 #       <Bg3r> seems that players and ondios
12.40.10 #       <JdGordon> http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/keyconfig-newtarget.h
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12.41.48 #       <Bg3r> and recording ;)
12.42.36 #       <amiconn> Imho the button action concept should achieve two main things:
12.42.47 #       <linuxstb> Bg3r: And ipods...
12.43.25 #       <amiconn> (1) less code duplication (the lastbutton and _PRE business). (2) More consistent UI operation, as we're forced to identify all the possible actions
12.44.12 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: we seem to be sliding away from #2 im afraid (but should be no worse than current) i agree tho on both point
12.44.15 #       <JdGordon> s
12.44.19 #       <amiconn> I don't think it will be possible to remove all #ifdefs, but the #ifdefs will become more natural
12.44.33 #       <amiconn> (just excluding an action that is impossible on a certain target)
12.45.08 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: why would we slide away from #2?
12.45.11 #       <amiconn> I don't think we should include impossible actions - it would bloat the code unnecessarily
12.45.36 #       <amiconn> (1) could even reduce code size a bit, but that's not sure
12.45.40 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: thats the impressin im getting with the contexts
12.46.22 #       <LinusN> how would you solve it instead?
12.46.27 #       * JdGordon back in an hour
12.46.28 #       <amiconn> Ah, and (3) it should allow remapping some buttons depending on the keypad type (different remotes on irivers)
12.46.30 #       <JdGordon> dunno...
12.46.59 #       <linuxstb> But at least if all the contexts are defined together in a single file, it's easier to spot inconsistencies.  And the fact that we're all thinking about button definitions will clean them up as well.
12.47.53 #       <amiconn> As far as I followed the discussion, I agree with LinusN that the actions should be "object oriented", i.e. something like LIST_NEXT makes more sense than LIST_DOWN
12.48.11 #       <linuxstb> Also, I think consistency is more of an issue in plugins, than the core.
12.48.29 #       <amiconn> Consistency definitely is an issue in the core
12.49.03 #       <amiconn> Perhaps not with the menus, wps or browser
12.49.44 #       <amiconn> ...but the radio operation is rather inconsistent
12.50.54 #       <amiconn> An idea is to make the button action logic table driven (and as far as I followed it is). Then different contexts just mean switching the table, and different remotes mean switching another table
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12.51.41 #       <LinusN> amiconn: exactly
12.54.18 #       <amiconn> I don't think the player or Ondio keypad are a real problem. They weren't with the old solution, although they're a little difficult
12.55.08 #       <amiconn> Both have 6 buttons, and while the Ondio keypad looks a bit more logical than the player one, I think it's a bit more difficult to handle
12.55.09 #       <linuxstb> I haven't thought this through, but how about having a core table of actions, and then a specific context will add more?   e.g. if we wanted the record button to always go to the record screen (on such targets), then that could be part of the core actions.  A Menu action would always bring up the menu (or quick-exit the menu if you're already there) etc.
12.56.02 #       <amiconn> (a) The Ondio keypad only has one button really suited for combos (Mode). The player has two (On and Menu)
12.56.59 #       <amiconn> (although combos should be avoided where possible, because they defeat one-handed operation)
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12.59.14 #       <amiconn> (b) The Ondio buttons are more fixed in their possible (read: intuitive) mapping, as 4 of them form a "cursor cross"
13.05.32 #       <amiconn> The ipods are a different problem. They have one button less than player and Ondio, and even though they have the wheel actions, they're less logical
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13.38.47 #       <LinusN> wee, i can draw on the x5 remote lcd
13.39.00 #       <Bg3r> w00t
13.39.19 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Uh, you wrote the drawing routines?
13.40.13 #       <LinusN> well, i used (and corrected) the SPI patch from raenye, and just experimented with writing raw data to the gram
13.40.32 #       <LinusN> the gram format is somewhat silly
13.40.39 #       <amiconn> Yes I know
13.40.59 #       <amiconn> The only thing I don't know yet is the actual orientation of the bytes
13.41.16 #       <amiconn> Horizontal or vertical? Position of the LSB?
13.41.29 #       <amiconn> I have the controller datasheet
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13.42.07 #       <amiconn> The data format isn't all that silly, btw. Look at it as 16bit data, and it becomes much more logical
13.42.27 #       <LinusN> ah, yes
13.42.38 #       <amiconn> FB_DATA will be short for the x5 remote, I think
13.42.42 #       <LinusN> clever
13.43.09 #       * amiconn already has most of the drawing routines in his head
13.43.53 #       <LinusN> lsb is the topmost pixel btw
13.44.12 #       <LinusN> so it's pretty much like the archos lcd
13.44.36 #       <amiconn> More like H100 main lcd
13.44.55 #       <amiconn> Okay, so vertical bytes, and LSB at top. Nice.
13.45.17 #       <amiconn> 2 bytes per pxiel column
13.45.21 #       <amiconn> *pixel
13.45.53 #       <amiconn> Vertical bytes and LSB at top will simplify mono bitmap drawing and hence text output
13.46.04 #       <amiconn> Should be equally fast as H100 main lcd, or even faster
13.46.10 #       <LinusN> yes, with the first byte having the msb of the pixel value and the second byte is lsb
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13.46.59 #       <amiconn> Now I'd like a scan of the X5 remote front view... for the sim
13.47.20 #       <LinusN> ok, i'll see what i can do
13.47.40 #       * JdGordon back
13.47.56 #       * amiconn seems to have gotten a task for this evening :)
13.48.25 #       <JdGordon> <linuxstb> I haven't thought this through, but how about having a core table of actions, and then a specific context will add more?   e.g. if we wanted the record button to always go to the record screen (on such targets), then that could be part of the core actions. <- ye this is what should happen, the problem is defining what these core actions are, and then making sure they wont intefere with other contexts
13.48.28 #       <amiconn> Luckily the x5 is coldfire, so I can easily check whether the code is efficient or not
13.48.49 #       <LinusN> i'll commit the low level driver asap
13.48.59 #       <JdGordon> and the dirwalker patch... :p
13.49.04 #       <amiconn> lcd-x5-remote.c?
13.49.22 #       <LinusN> yes
13.49.54 #       <LinusN> target/coldfire/iaudio/x5/lcd-x5-remote.c i guess
13.50.20 #       <amiconn> The other one should be called firmware/drivers/lcd-2bit-vert-lace-remote.c if we stick with the current naming scheme
13.50.25 #       <amiconn> A bit long though...
13.50.34 #       <LinusN> horrible :-)
13.50.52 #       <LinusN> but yes, that sounds ok i guess
13.52.01 #       <amiconn> Hmm, it seems it would make sense to abstract the drawing a bit more, so that we can use the same drawing code for main & remote if they have the same pixel format
13.52.22 #       <amiconn> But I don't know how to achieve that, without introducing additional code and delays...
13.53.13 #       <amiconn> A lot of macro magic might help, but I doubt many devs would understand later how it works
13.54.10 #       <amiconn> *Someone* should also split lcd-recorder.c, lcd-player.c, lcd-h100.c and lcd-h100-remote.c
13.54.36 #       * LinusN looks away
13.55.32 #       <amiconn> lcd-ipod.c should also be split in 2, maybe lcd-ipod-gray.c and lcd-ipod-color.c
13.55.52 #       <amiconn> lcd-ipod-video.c is already separate
13.57.52 #       <amiconn> LinusN: The target tree path for ipods would be firmware/target/arm/ipod/<model> with model={mini2g, video, ...}, right?
13.58.00 #       <humulus> LinusN: i'll sent my x5l back to amazon they will change it or fix it
13.58.34 #       <LinusN> amiconn: yes, but maybe "apple" instead of "ipod"
13.58.40 #       <amiconn> Why apple?
13.58.43 #       <LinusN> humulus: good
13.58.50 #       <amiconn> iaudio is a product line, not a company?
13.58.59 #       <LinusN> yes, my mistake
13.59.10 #       <LinusN> it was supposed to be <manufacturer>
13.59.21 #       <LinusN> it doesn't really matter
13.59.31 #       <LinusN> ipod would be fine
13.59.34 #       <amiconn> Different product lines might need different branches, so imho it's even better to use product lines instead of manufacturers
13.59.40 #       <LinusN> true
14.00.01 #       <amiconn> (thinking about e.g. archos (sh line) and gmini)
14.00.31 #       <amiconn> ...which leaves us with the problem of the product line name for the old archoses
14.00.54 #       <amiconn> Maybe just archos, even though it sort of breaks the 'product line' scheme
14.02.06 #       <amiconn> lcd-ipod-video.c would then reside in ..target/ipod/video/, while lcd-ipod.c (even when split in two) would reside in ..target/ipod/ iiuc
14.02.18 #       <amiconn> ..as it is used for more than one of the ipod targets
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14.02.47 #       <barrywardell> does anyone here know about the iaudio x5?
14.03.12 #       <barrywardell> i was just looking at the hardware specs and think it may have the same lcd as the h10
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14.04.23 #       <amiconn> LinusN: correct?
14.05.42 #       <LinusN> correct
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14.06.17 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: the x5 has a Renesas HD66773R LCD
14.06.54 #       <safetydan> woo... nearly to the point I can calculate sunrise, sunset for the day on Rockbox...
14.07.18 #       <LinusN> amiconn: we could call it "jukebox" instead of "archos", or even "archos_jb"
14.08.36 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: has it been got to work on the x5? If so, I'll have a look at the rockbox driver
14.09.09 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: hehe, x5 has been working for quite a while now
14.09.28 #       <amiconn> LinusN: The Ondio isn't called 'jukebox'
14.09.35 #       <LinusN> amiconn: damn
14.10.26 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: great, thanks. hopefully that will make it easier to get the lcd working on the h10
14.10.35 #       <Bg3r> what happened with target/<cpu>/ thingy ?
14.10.37 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: good luck
14.10.52 #       * amiconn wonders whether we should also move code for inactive targets
14.10.57 #       <LinusN> Bg3r: it's there, it's just amiconn who is lazy at typing
14.11.08 #       <LinusN> amiconn: gmini?
14.11.11 #       <amiconn> yes
14.11.23 #       <Bg3r> then what's the problem ? for example gmini won't be in the sh subtree
14.11.24 #       <amiconn> Meh, forgot the /cpu/ part :/
14.11.25 #       <LinusN> i'm tempted to scrap the gmini
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14.12.08 #       <amiconn> If we leave it where it is when moving the others, it "taints" the code tree
14.12.32 #       <amiconn> But moving it also means work, and we don't know whether it will ever get picked up again
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14.12.56 #       <amiconn> calmrisc is a weird architecture
14.13.07 #       <amiconn> (harvard)
14.13.22 #       <amiconn> and not having code RAM doesn't make things easier either
14.13.29 #       * JdGordon is starting to regret starting a wiki page for the action discussion :p
14.13.34 #       * JdGordon hates writing
14.13.59 #       <markun> the samsung CPUs in the new irivers have a ARM core, CalmRISC core and some DSP unit
14.14.21 #       <amiconn> markun: Then the calmrisc core *is* the dsp
14.14.27 #       <markun> ah
14.14.40 #       <amiconn> But the gmini *only* has a calmrisc core
14.14.53 #       <amiconn> Think of it as of running rockbox on a dsp...
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14.15.48 #       <Bg3r> a year-2 ago rockbox run on a dsp
14.15.50 #       <markun> amiconn: http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/SystemLSI/DigitalMedia/OpticalASSP/OpticalPlayer/MP3/SA58450/SA58450.htm
14.17.28 #       <amiconn> The MAC2424 belongs to the calmrisc core
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14.17.45 #       <theprodukkt> hey all
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14.19.56 #       <theprodukkt> well ive a offtopic question, but i think youre experienced enough to help me :)
14.19.57 #       <theprodukkt> ok my computer (windows) is connected to the internet through my linux-firewall (a dedicated pc standing in the floor, the distribution is called ipcop)
14.20.32 #       <midkay> i've seen offtopic before, but... :o
14.21.04 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: one more thing. any tips on creating a new build target? I edited tools/configure and created config-h10.h
14.21.21 #       <theprodukkt> now i want a small server running on my ipcop (the firewall) from where i can see which computers (ips) are actually running on my home network, or from where i can start (wake up on lan) some pcs
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14.22.14 #       <theprodukkt> it would also be nice if i could start some servers on my local pc from that frontend, for example vnc or teamspeak server,..
14.22.21 #       <linuxstb_> amiconn: I've just been playing with the Radio and Recording screens on my H140, and I agree that at least the radio screen is very inconsistent with the rest of Rockbox...  I had also forgotten about the existence of a "record" button on the H140, and my instinct was to use Play/Pause to start recording (and potentially pause/resume it).
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14.22.40 #       <theprodukkt> do u have any ideas how i could realize such  a project
14.22.44 #       <linuxstb_> barrywardell: Have you edited firmware/export/config.h to include your new config-h10.h file?
14.22.48 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: maybe it's time for the NewTargetHowto wiki page
14.22.55 #       <midkay> google, but certainly not here..
14.23.19 #       <theprodukkt> i just thought maybe your experienced in that server stuff
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14.23.27 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb_: no, didn't know about that
14.23.45 #       <linuxstb_> After that, I think it's just a matter of fixing all the compile errors...
14.24.19 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: what entry did you copy when adding the h10 in tools/configure?
14.24.21 #       <linuxstb_> Oh, plus add a new target to tools/scramble.c and change MODEL_NAME and MODEL_NUM in config-h10.h
14.24.30 #       <midkay> i'm not, and i don't think you'll find much help in here. i've seen plenty of people shunned away even just for asking questions pertaining to DAPs in general.. let alone a home networking project.
14.24.57 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: I based it mostly off the ipod color and mini1g
14.25.03 #       <theprodukkt> ok :/
14.26.02 #       <linuxstb_> barrywardell: Also, config.h will tell you the possible values for some of the #defines you can have in your config-h10.h  You'll probably need to add new ones for new hardware - such as the RTC chip, backlight etc.
14.26.04 #       <theprodukkt> does there exist a offtopic rockboxcommunity channel ;)?
14.27.04 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb_: just looking through config.h now. I see what you mean
14.27.07 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: look at the x5 entry and copy the t_cpu, t_manufacturer and t_model entries
14.27.31 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: i was just about to ask about that. saw something about it in the wiki
14.28.33 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: it would be awfully nice if you created a PortingHowto wiki page, only with short notes about what files you had to change
14.28.47 #       <LinusN> i can fill in the rest and make it a howto
14.29.42 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: will do. i'll try to get things working and then document my work
14.30.00 #       <LinusN> wonderful
14.30.40 #       <theprodukkt>  cya
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14.31.48 #       <Jungti1234> ah
14.31.52 #       <Jungti1234> I have question
14.32.00 #       <Febs> I hate it when people use the word "bricked" in the title of forum threads, when their player is not, in fact, bricked.
14.32.32 #       <midkay> Febs: i heard someone got moderatorship ;)
14.32.36 #       <Jungti1234> Rockbox use is unlawfulness?
14.32.51 #       <LinusN> Jungti1234: no
14.32.57 #       <Jungti1234> reason please
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14.33.15 #       <LinusN> Jungti1234: why do you think it would break the law?
14.33.24 #       <Jungti1234> I don't know.
14.33.31 #       <LinusN> then why do you ask?
14.33.34 #       <Jungti1234> Some Korean's ideas.
14.33.52 #       <LinusN> ask him why he think it would be unlawful
14.34.08 #       <Jungti1234> and?
14.34.23 #       <Galois> I can see why someone might think rockbox is illegal. It's superficially similar to (say) modding game consoles, which some say is illegal.
14.34.25 #       * midkay is slightly amused.
14.34.41 #       <midkay> illegal why? it's yours, you own it..
14.34.52 #       <Galois> well, yes, you're the preacher and I'm the choir here
14.34.56 #       <LinusN> Jungti1234: just let him explain why he think it would be unlawful, and then we can answer him
14.34.58 #       <Galois> I'm just saying, other people are weird
14.35.04 #       <midkay> *shrugs*
14.35.08 #       <Jungti1234> hmm
14.35.13 #       <midkay> no idea on if it is or not, i just think it shouldn't be regardless :)
14.35.50 #       <Galois> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modding
14.35.59 #       <Jungti1234> um...... use iriver's firmware to iriver player.
14.36.20 #       <Jungti1234> iriver player made by iriver.
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14.36.52 #       <midkay> iriver player bought by user, user do what user want with iriver player :)
14.36.56 #       <Jungti1234> Rockbox is firmware that they don't recognize.
14.37.14 #       <Jungti1234> ah, midkay....
14.37.20 #       * midkay waves
14.37.21 #       <Jungti1234> yes yes..
14.37.26 #       <midkay> .. yes?
14.37.49 #       <Jungti1234> You are right.
14.38.32 #       <midkay> i'd think so.. can't say for sure.
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14.38.57 #       <Jungti1234> I think..... you're right. :)
14.39.26 #       <midkay> :)
14.41.04 #       <LinusN> Jungti1234: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GeneralFAQ#Is_this_legal_I_mean_I_d_just_ha
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14.42.13 #       <Jungti1234> hmm
14.42.28 #       <Jungti1234> English is much different from Korean.
14.42.52 #       <Jungti1234> I'm difficult to understand correct meaning.
14.43.15 #       <JdGordon> yay, my first real wiki addition :) http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonActionIdea nock yourselves out :p
14.43.25 #       <Jungti1234> anyway thanks LinusN
14.43.43 #       <markun> LinusN: by porting rockbox to the Gigabeat we are avoiding the encryption used by the current firmware for all files. Is this a DMCA violation?
14.44.08 #       <LinusN> as i see it, no
14.44.22 #       <LinusN> we are not doing it for the purpose of copyright violation
14.44.41 #       <Galois> you're basically doing what that garage opener company did
14.44.47 #       <Galois> or the inkjet cartridge refill company
14.44.52 #       <LinusN> and isn't the dmca an american law?
14.44.54 #       <Galois> both of which got sued, IIRC
14.45.07 #       <Galois> and dvd-jon got arrested under american law even though he's norwegian
14.45.21 #       <LinusN> and then released
14.45.41 #       <Galois> I think it's legal but will put you in some grief
14.45.58 #       <LinusN> perhaps
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14.49.05 #       <LinusN> the garage opener suit was dismissed, because the dmca didn't apply
14.49.49 #       <LinusN> iirc, interoperability is a legal reason for reverse engineering even in f*scist dmca land
14.50.17 #       <merbanan> markun: are you breaking the encryption ?
14.50.18 #       * LinusN is starting to sound like bluechip
14.51.30 #       <markun> merbanan: no
14.52.18 #       <merbanan> markun: will this port cicumvent copy protection of copy protected files ?
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14.52.53 #       <merbanan> if not then it should be safe but you never know what new laws they will invent
14.54.07 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb; you said to add a new target to scramble.c. What does this file do? it looks like it  is something to do with building the firmware
14.54.32 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: scramble.c is used to create the rockbox binary image
14.54.48 #       <LinusN> which is loaded by the rockbox bootloader
14.55.16 #       <LinusN> each rockbox target has an id
14.55.37 #       <LinusN> so the loader won't load a binary for an incompatible target
14.56.27 #       <Bagder> for mi4-players, we could start off using the built-in loader and use mi4code to create binaries with
14.56.48 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: ah, ok
14.57.10 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: so will I just ignore scramble.c for the moment then?
14.57.18 #       <Bagder> yes, I think so
14.57.27 #       <Bagder> let's use mi4code instead
14.57.44 #       <Bagder> configure can be told to use that
14.57.55 #       <Bagder> I mean when you edit it to add support for H10
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14.58.46 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: ok so.
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15.02.55 #       <Jungti1234> markun
15.03.10 #       <markun> yes?
15.04.45 #       <Jungti1234> If decipher firmware, can get image which is used to firmware?
15.04.46 #       <markun> if you have a question you can just ask without calling me first
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15.04.52 #       <Jungti1234> okok :)
15.05.20 #       <markun> you want to change the pictures in the firmware?
15.06.04 #       <Jungti1234> no, I want to have images(include themes)....
15.06.37 #       <markun> I think we are talking about the same thing..
15.06.39 #       <Jungti1234> I want to have image of iFP-1000 firmware.
15.07.08 #       <Jungti1234> and want to have 'default' theme of E10 firmware
15.07.31 #       <markun> Jungti1234: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=4547.msg42371#msg42371
15.07.47 #       <markun> but I cannot help you anymore right now
15.08.38 #       <Jungti1234> when can you help me..? :)
15.09.08 #       <Jungti1234> If you can help me, I can wait to anytime.
15.16.10 #       <markun> just try it by yourself. Maybe some other iriver E10 owners want to help you.
15.17.09 #       <JdGordon> can i put an extern *blaa;  in a .h in the apps/ and the actual blaa in a .c in the firmware folder?
15.17.46 #       <linuxstb_> Why can't you put them in the same place?
15.18.08 #       <JdGordon> because im not sure where the best place for it all is..
15.18.25 #       * JdGordon has buttons on the brain atm.
15.18.56 #       <linuxstb_> A .h and .c should be together IMO - either together in apps/ (if the firmware code doesn't need to use it), or in firmware/ if it's needed by the code in firmware.
15.19.39 #       <JdGordon> if the button lists go in apps it will make a mess of the folder unless it all goes in a new subfolder of apps/?
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15.19.59 #       <LinusN> how many files would it be?
15.20.11 #       <JdGordon> 1 for each target didnt we decide?
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15.20.16 #       <JdGordon> or 1 really long one
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15.23.09 #       <LinusN> apps/keymaps/*.h maybe?
15.24.30 #       <JdGordon> k
15.24.54 #       <Gnelik> Bagder: I have decompiled raw file with IDA  but i don't know what help do you need?
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15.31.46 #       <Jungti1234> markun
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15.32.11 #       <Jungti1234> but I don't know output file extension.
15.32.42 #       <Jungti1234> i don't know what its result.
15.39.01 #       <Jungti1234> LinusN
15.39.19 #       <LinusN> yes?
15.39.42 #       <Jungti1234> He(asked Rockbox is unlawfulness) speaks.
15.40.07 #       <Jungti1234> 'Rockbox isn't hacking?'
15.40.23 #       <LinusN> no it isn't
15.40.31 #       <Jungti1234> then?
15.40.38 #       <LinusN> it's software development
15.41.02 #       <LinusN> which in fact is "hacking" to me
15.41.06 #       <Jungti1234> doesn't it hack original firmware?
15.41.10 #       <LinusN> no
15.41.18 #       <LinusN> we don't use the original firmware
15.41.23 #       <LinusN> we replace it
15.41.24 #       <Jungti1234> bootloader
15.41.56 #       <LinusN> yes, the bootloader is a grey area, but it would only be illegal if we distribute the patched firmware
15.42.05 #       <LinusN> which we don't
15.42.11 #       <Jungti1234> ah!
15.42.20 #       <Jungti1234> :D very good answer
15.42.31 #       <LinusN> that's why the installation is so cumbersome, with fwpatcher etc
15.44.46 #       <Jungti1234> what is grey area?
15.44.49 #       <Jungti1234> gray area?
15.45.02 #       <LinusN> yes
15.45.11 #       <Jungti1234> middle area?
15.45.16 #       <LinusN> sort of
15.47.50 #       <Jungti1234> good.. thank you.
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16.07.32 #       <JdGordon> gnite all
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16.54.33 #       <Jungti1234> reboot
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17.34.35 #       <Gnelik> Whot type of procesor chooze when disasembling decoded mi4 file
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17.35.18 #       <linuxstb_> -marm
17.35.30 #       <Gnelik> IDA
17.35.43 #       <linuxstb_> The PP5020 has two arm7tdmi cores.
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17.36.11 #       <linuxstb_> (and the PP5024)
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17.57.48 #       <ax> man, copying data to my rockbox enabled ipod is amazingly slow
17.58.07 #       <linuxstb_> Nano?
17.58.15 #       <ax> yeah
17.58.25 #       <Mikachu> boot the stock firmware first
17.58.47 #       <linuxstb_> It's a known "feature" of Apple's emergency disk mode (which is what Rockbox reboots you into).  As Mikachu said - boot into Apple's firmware first.
17.59.06 #       <Slasheri> hehe, now i really started to plan some drafts for own coldfire based mp3 player :) probably i am going to not include display at all, instead have a bluetooth module so every operations could be controlled with a mobile phone :)
18.00.04 #       <chendo> that'll only market to people who have a mobile phone with bluetooth ;/
18.00.07 #       <ax> okay, thanks
18.00.45 #       <Slasheri> a player with only power switch and nothing else =) would be great for me
18.01.01 #       <linuxstb_> Buy an ipod shuffle :)
18.01.04 #       <Slasheri> but then it needs software for the phone side
18.01.20 #       <Slasheri> that's not funny, not too powerful cpu and no compiler support.. =)
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18.01.54 #       <linuxstb_> Isn't there a generic way to add a menu to a phone via bluetooth - i.e. without any special software on the phone?  I remember a winamp plugin related to that...
18.02.14 #       <Slasheri> no.. at least i have never heard about that
18.02.29 #       <Slasheri> but should be easy to transfer whole screen bitmap from player to the phone display
18.03.20 #       <Slasheri> bluetooth should have at least 1 Mbit/s bandwidth
18.05.50 #       <Slasheri> and then no need to bother about usb bridge for file transfer.. at least not for the first version (wifi would be faster but much more complex to implement)
18.06.50 #       <amiconn> "at least"?
18.07.00 #       <crwl> that sounds like quite an interesting idea
18.07.04 #       <crwl> i'd include the USB bridge, though
18.07.11 #       <amiconn> bluetooth (v1) _brutto data rate is 1MBit - in both directions
18.07.20 #       <amiconn> ..combined
18.07.25 #       <Slasheri> yes, that's slow indeed..
18.07.55 #       <amiconn> If you want to transfer colour frames, it's indeed slow
18.08.01 #       <Slasheri> unless mmc is used as storage, but then it would have quite low capacity
18.08.50 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: hmm, true
18.09.12 #       <Slasheri> or then just implement the widgets on the phone side and transfer content only
18.09.48 #       <linuxstb_> Or implement the whole UI on the phone side...
18.10.14 #       <Slasheri> linuxstb_: that would probably work best but i hate symbian programming.. :D
18.10.25 #       <crwl> do it with j2me then :H
18.10.36 #       <amiconn> On archos we do slightly more than 1MBit/s transfer to the lcd (even slightly exceeding the lcd controller specs btw), and achieve a bit more than 100fps
18.10.36 #       <Slasheri> crwl: hehe :) hmm, that sounds better ;)
18.10.46 #       <amiconn> That's with 112x64 monochrome...
18.11.35 #       <Slasheri> amiconn: hmm.. then that doesn't sound too bad. could be just enough for a monochrome display :)
18.11.57 #       <Slasheri> btw, the coldfire chips are very cheap, 21e for the 140 MHz version
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18.17.57 #       <goffa> does rb support pcm?
18.19.42 #       <linuxstb_> What do you mean?
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18.21.36 #       <Jungti1234> pcm type?
18.21.46 #       <goffa> well... does it play .pcm files
18.22.52 #       <linuxstb_> To be honest, I'm not sure what a .pcm file is.  If it's just raw uncompressed PCM audio, then it's bit tricky to do anything with it without a header describing the format.
18.23.13 #       <goffa> yeah.. that's what it is
18.23.30 #       <goffa> but i think it has a header
18.23.32 #       <goffa> i don't need it
18.23.43 #       <goffa> but have a friend that was asking
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18.23.48 #       <apo`> :/ My iPod's screen is dying
18.24.11 #       <linuxstb_> Assuming there's some kind of header, It should be trivial to add support for it - probably in the WAV codec.
18.24.21 #       <linuxstb_> (or a new codec based on the wav one)
18.25.19 #       <linuxstb_> goffa: You can tell him/her that Rockbox supports both WAV and AIFF, plus lots of lossless formats such as FLAC, Wavpack, Apple Lossless and Shorten.
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18.46.51 #       <goffa> yeah
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18.47.06 #       <goffa> i knew about the rest of it
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19.36.22 #       <solus> hey
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19.40.20 #       <solus> how big a risk is it that when trying to install rockbox on my ipod nano, i accidentally corrupt the original firmware and end up not being able to run it at all?
19.41.42 #       <Quarryman> you can always reinstall the original firmware
19.42.10 #       <solus> i can get that from apple?
19.43.46 #       <Galois> if somebody fucks up their nano it's a good bet they'll complain to us. Having said that, in the past six months we know of _one_ person who broke their ipod while installing rockbox, and we suspect the ipod broke because of hardware failure that just happened to coincide with installing rockbox.
19.44.25 #       <solus> that sounds scary
19.44.41 #       <solus> when is AAC decoding likely to be finished?
19.44.48 #       <Galois> one person out of a few thousand is not that great a risk
19.44.57 #       <solus> no, not really
19.45.03 #       <Galois> but, its up to you
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19.45.22 #       <solus> of course it is, I'm just feeling my way around
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19.45.30 #       <solus> it seems really cool
19.45.45 #       <solus> the only feature i *need* is the gapless playback
19.45.50 #       <solus> but all of it is cook
19.45.51 #       <solus> cool
19.46.23 #       <k8to_> it must be hard to do a proper QA of a rockbox release
19.46.23 #       <Galois> in theory you can always recover the hardware, because 1) rockbox installation only affects the contents of the disk, 2) apple's recovery utility works no matter what's on the disk
19.47.04 #       <solus> how about that AAC-thing?
19.47.22 #       <Galois> I have no idea. I do not use AAC.
19.48.29 #       <solus> ok
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19.49.41 #       <Galois> I've heard of people accidentally nuking all the music on their ipod, so obviously you should back that up (even though a normal rockbox installation will not nuke your music)
19.50.24 #       <goffa> yeah... i'd feel totally confident in installing it
19.50.48 #       <goffa> in fact.. my h140 went TU... i was able to put original firmware back on for warranty
19.52.14 #       <solus> i keep my music on the computer
19.52.22 #       <k8to_> goffa: haha good thing the right part broke
19.52.23 #       <solus> the ipod only has room for 4G
19.52.31 #       <solus> TU?
19.52.42 #       <k8to_> TU == tits up == british for broken
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19.56.41 #       <goffa> yeah true k8to_
19.56.51 #       <goffa> i don't know about british... i'm from montana :)
19.57.08 #       <goffa> if it was hard drive i would have just put in a bigger one
19.58.17 #       <k8to_> goffa: i'm sure you picked it up from the british isles somehow, perhaps indirectly
19.58.50 #       <goffa> could be... goff is of welsh descent :)
20.00.02 #       <goffa> but people around here use it all the time
20.01.59 #       <goffa> i just assumed it came from when something died.. like a pig or some animal
20.02.13 #       <goffa> they are on their back.. thus tits up
20.05.58 #       <k8to_> i bet that is true
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20.17.07 #       <Jungti1234> bye
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20.23.09 #       <goffa> well... people seem to like this idea... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3298.30
20.23.19 #       <goffa> now we just need someone to implement it :)
20.23.40 #       <goffa> making right queue and play... and navi play
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20.28.04 #       <goffa> hmm... looks like they couldn't repair my 140.. says pending replacement
20.28.23 #       <scorche> Bagder: there?
20.29.20 #       <goffa> new is better
20.30.08 #       <BigMac> scorche
20.30.32 #       <BigMac> were can i get an invite to that site its killing me trying to find one..
20.30.52 #       <scorche> i dont know...find one
20.31.30 #       <BigMac> so what was the point of telling me about a site then telling me to go screw myself exactly
20.32.24 #       <goffa> what site?
20.32.41 #       <BigMac> i dont think im alowwed to talk about it here
20.33.08 #       <goffa> heh ok.. you can pm me
20.33.21 #       <Hulex> Uh
20.33.27 #       <Hulex> I am question machine :V
20.33.48 #       <Hulex> Anyway to create/edit playlists through the computer. As in, not the iPod?
20.33.56 #       <Hulex> rockbox of course.
20.34.04 #       <scorche> yes
20.34.23 #       <scorche> .m3u format
20.34.33 #       <scorche> there are many programs that will write one
20.34.42 #       <Hulex> Any for Mac?
20.34.50 #       <scorche> i am sure
20.34.57 #       <scorche> .m3u is a very common format
20.35.02 #       * scorche returns to work
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20.35.19 #       <Hulex> Again, just need more time to tool around with it
20.35.55 #       <rconan> you can make them by hand easily enough
20.35.56 #       <goffa> itunes will
20.36.12 #       <goffa> http://homepage.mac.com/beryrinaldo/AudioTron/Export_Playlist_to_M3U/
20.36.15 #       <rconan> m3u files are just lists of relative paths
20.36.26 #       <Hulex> ooh cool
20.36.31 #       <Hulex> http://homepage.mac.com/beryrinaldo/AudioTron/Export_Playlist_to_M3U/  this looks helpful
20.36.37 #       <Hulex> agh
20.36.40 #       <Hulex> beaten XD
20.36.42 #       <goffa> :P
20.37.32 #       <goffa> you still there BigMac?
20.38.14 #       <BigMac> yessuh
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20.39.06 #       <goffa> reply to my pm :)
20.39.24 #       <BigMac> i didn't get one...
20.39.37 #       <goffa> odd... well send me your email addy
20.40.09 #       <BigMac> addy?
20.40.15 #       <BigMac> adress gotcha
20.40.16 #       <goffa> address
20.40.30 #       <BigMac> dummeskaninchen@gmail.com
20.40.49 #       <goffa> check your email
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20.41.11 #       <goffa> didn't mean for you to post in the chan.. but that works
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20.41.53 #       <BigMac> ok
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20.43.15 #       <BigMac> goffa, i know mail on mail relationships may be illegal in some places but i love you:-P
20.47.30 #       <muesli__> to love somebody without beeing loved is like answering without being asked :D
20.47.31 #       <goffa> he he he
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20.49.51 #       <BigMac> ow that hurt me:_)
20.50.34 #       <muesli__> sorry for that :)
20.50.50 #       <muesli__> live isnt nice all the time
20.51.24 #       <amiconn> life
20.51.25 #       <muesli__> life..grrr
20.51.43 #       <muesli__> tricky word...
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20.54.37 #       <goffa> late lunch sucks... guess it'll be a short afternoon... 6 mins and i can fire up the bbq
20.56.53 #       <BigMac> goffa
20.56.59 #       <goffa> yeah?
20.57.05 #       <BigMac> on the site mentioned how do i change my profile
20.57.13 #       <BigMac> nvm
20.57.23 #       <goffa> ok
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21.01.24 #       <goffa> well.. bbl.. going afk
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21.22.02 #       <dan_a> Could someone help me with some programming?  Is "ldr r4, =address", "mov r3, #value", "str r3, [r4]" in ARM assembly the same as outl(value, address) in C?
21.24.07 #       <linuxstb_> I believe so.
21.24.35 #       <markun> only if address points to memory mapped IO
21.24.49 #       <markun> right?
21.25.05 #       <Lear> Are the build times estimates on the CVS builds page accurate nowadays?
21.25.38 #       <dan_a> markun: Ah... how would I tell?
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21.26.06 #       <dan_a> (excuse my ignorance!)
21.26.15 #       <markun> dan_a: by looking at the documentation. Which CPU is it?
21.26.42 #       <dan_a> PP5002 - address is 0xcf004058
21.27.32 #       <linuxstb_> http://ipodlinux.org/PP5002
21.27.44 #       <markun>  0xcf004058  sleep COP
21.27.59 #       <linuxstb_> dan_a: Are you looking at Rockbox, or disassembling retailos?
21.28.13 #       <dan_a> linuxstb: Playing with Rockbox
21.28.33 #       <dan_a> I'm just trying to wake up the COP and have it send itsself back to sleep
21.28.34 #       * linuxstb_ is currently looking at the Sansa firmware
21.29.17 #       <markun> linuxstb_: the E10 firmware also decodes with the ifp decoder: http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/e10strings.txt
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21.30.22 #       <bluebrother> is this request doable? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/1534
21.31.21 #       <linuxstb_> bluebrother: I don't see why not.  Isn't it already done?
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21.31.45 #       <bluebrother> linuxstb_, I think of MASCODEC -- SWCODEC already has crossfade
21.32.30 #       <bluebrother> as the poster refers to some archos device and it's implemented I was thinking if we could close it.
21.32.51 #       <bluebrother> as I don't have any idea how it should be possible mixing mp3 streams before actual decoding it
21.32.58 #       <linuxstb_> I don't read that feature request as cross-fade.  Just fading down the current track, then fading in the next track.  But I haven't used a hwcodec device for a long time.
21.33.05 #       <amiconn> Crossfade is *impossible* on the MAS, except (perhaps) for future integrated wav playback
21.33.30 #       * amiconn wonders why so many people want all those fading crap
21.34.24 #       <bluebrother> so should we close that task? At least wav crossfading isn't what he requested.
21.35.14 #       <amiconn> The complement for fade on stop/pause could be done - fade in on play/unpause
21.35.37 #       <linuxstb_> dan_a: If you're going to try using the COP, the big issue to remember is cache coherency - i.e. the two CPUs have their own caches, without bus snooping.  So you can only really use IRAM to share data between the two CPUs (IRAM isn't cached).
21.36.34 #       <dan_a> linuxstb: Thanks - I'd read that in the logs.  At the moment I'm really just experimenting and learning
21.37.20 #       <dan_a> But what I was thinking of trying to do was run the codec thread on the COP, since I think the codec and audio buffers are both in IRAM
21.38.02 #       <dan_a> There's probably huge flaws in that plan, but I'll find out what they are when I hit them
21.38.06 #       <linuxstb_> Not always - I think it depends on the codec.
21.40.01 #       <dan_a> Even if it doesn't work it means I'm learning how the various bits of Rockbox fit together :)
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21.42.58 #       <BigMac> goffa:say something when your hback
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21.49.21 #       * Lear pings bagder: build server stuck again, it seems.
21.51.02 #       <dan_a> Anyway, real life calls.  Thanks for your help linuxstb and markun.
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22.00.02 #       * amiconn summons LinusN, Bagder or Zagor
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22.04.08 #       <goffa> back BigMac ... sort of
22.04.34 #       <grimman> If anyone's reading who was here when my iPod transfer rates were acting up; using a different USB port did work.
22.05.52 #       <BigMac> goffa do you have aim
22.06.04 #       <BigMac> since private chat doesnt work between us
22.07.00 #       <BigMac> i think rockbox needs a mascot
22.07.18 #       <|apo|> How about a pet rock?
22.07.31 #       <|apo|> *cough* sorry
22.07.34 #       <grimman> That would rock!
22.08.27 #       <goffa> yeah.. i do
22.08.40 #       <goffa> username goffa
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22.12.28 #       <amiconn> t0mas?
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22.31.53 #       <BigMac> isnt 192 kbps considered vorbis?
22.35.26 #       <linuxstb_> ?
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22.38.01 #       <BigMac> is it?
22.38.55 #       <linuxstb_> "192kbps" is just a bitrate - it's unrelated to any particular format.
22.39.09 #       <BigMac> i thought that that was the quality
22.40.40 #       <Bger> BigMac: yes, it's directly related to the quality
22.41.40 #       <BigMac> and wouldnt that quality be the qaulity of vorbis
22.41.42 #       <linuxstb_> Sort of...  A higher bitrate will normally mean higher quality - but it depends on the encoder, other settings etc etc.
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22.43.10 #       <linuxstb_> BigMac: There's no such thing as "the quality of vorbis".  Vorbis can have varying quality - depending on the bitrate used to encode the vorbis file.
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22.43.26 #       <Bger> and on the encoder ...
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22.47.25 #       <dionoea> hi
22.47.31 #       <amiconn> lo
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22.52.31 #       <enzyme> any one here use the philips az1835 stereo
23.05.01 #       <goffa> midkay: i answered you
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23.11.14 #       <BigMac> were is the rocks folder go? in .rockbox or in root
23.12.29 #       <dionoea> /.rockbox/rocks
23.13.04 #       <dionoea> btw, i noticed a patch on the tracker splitting the rocks directory in different subcategories (games, demos, editors, utils ...)
23.13.10 #       <dionoea> that would be nice
23.14.28 #       <linuxstb_> Does it handle localisation?
23.15.37 #       <dionoea> i don't have a clue
23.16.21 #       <dionoea> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5464
23.18.52 #       <linuxstb_> It looks good to me - it's the approach I've been thinking about.  It just creates subdirs in .rocks/, and replaces the "browse plugins" menu option with a sub-menu with entries "Browse Games", "Browse Utilities" etc
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23.22.04 #       * amiconn wonders why that would be needed
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23.22.41 #       * amiconn spots some small optimisation possibilities in the 2 bit lcd drivers
23.23.52 #       <midkay> amiconn: not "needed", but easier access to certain plugins. we're getting a lot..
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23.24.35 #       <midkay> we have more than 50 now, don't we?
23.24.37 #       <amiconn> I don't think that we have so many plugins that we need to split them
23.24.56 #       <midkay> we already have a lot, and we'll keep getting more..
23.25.07 #       <dionoea> the plugins list is getting a bit too long IMO
23.25.29 #       <Bagder> I too think we should split them up
23.26.00 #       <amiconn> If you really think so....
23.26.20 #       <amiconn> I can browse the list without problems...
23.26.28 #       <dionoea> completely different question: how do you connect an archos recorder to your PC if you lost the old usb cable ?
23.26.38 #       <amiconn> Buy a new one...
23.26.49 #       <dionoea> usb a - usb a ?
23.26.55 #       <dionoea> do people sell those ?
23.27.06 #       <amiconn> A-A cables violate the USB standard, but some shops have them
23.27.20 #       <dionoea> neat, i didn't know that
23.27.38 #       * linuxstb_ recently bought a cheap ipod dock that came with an A-A cable
23.27.58 #       <amiconn> Well, connecting two PCs with a plain A-A cable is one of the fastest way to make them crash
23.28.14 #       <amiconn> (and perhaps even destroy some components)
23.28.42 #       <dionoea> yay ! they sell them for 5euros here (France)
23.28.54 #       <dionoea> and 2.60 on the net
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23.29.48 #       <linuxstb_> Bagder: What do you think of jdgordon's patch for splitting the plugins?
23.30.05 #       <Bagder> haven't checked it out actually
23.30.59 #       <linuxstb_> Not specifically the code, just the idea (see my description 12 minutes ago)
23.31.24 #       <Bagder> oh yes, I like that
23.31.27 #       <Bagder> plain and simple
23.33.19 #       <linuxstb_> Bagder: Do you know how much flash the Sansa has got (for the OS)?
23.33.27 #       <Bagder> nope
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23.41.39 #       <BigMac> what does audio scrobbler do exactly
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23.43.27 #       <Bagder> report to a server what you've listened to
23.45.00 #       <BigMac> oh i see
23.45.10 #       <linuxstb_> "Audioscrobbler is a database that tracks music listening habits and calculates relationships and recommendations."
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23.45.51 #       <kerb> http://www.last.fm/user/kerb/ for example
23.46.13 #       <kerb> rockbox submits there when I hook it up to the computer :)
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23.48.12 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: How is work going with the Sansa? Any more progress?
23.48.36 #       <Bagder> not by me, no
23.48.52 #       <Bagder> work/other projects have taken my time
23.49.05 #       <Bagder> (and I'm still actually on vacation ;-)
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23.50.44 #       <BigMac> ok and one final question, does anyone have about 1 minute of time literally and a decent imagery software (photoshop etc)?
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23.51.43 #       <barrywardell> Bagder: ah, ok. Might be good to take a break and come back with a fresh mind!
23.52.25 #       <Bagder> there's basically disassembling for us to do next
23.54.19 #       <barrywardell> sounds like a lot of hard work. were you not able to track down any docs on the lcd?
23.54.39 #       <Bagder> nope
23.55.16 #       <Bagder> but I thought I'd check if it is similar to the h300 one
23.55.29 #       <Bagder> since it is the same resolution, only rotated
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23.56.14 #       <obo> speaking of Audioscrobbler - is there any chance that someone could take a look at it, with an eye to inclusion? (FS 5166)
23.56.38 #       <amiconn> Meh, gcc is dumb
23.57.19 #       <barrywardell> hopefully it will be. would save you a lot of work. i'm hoping for similar luck with the H10 and iAudio X5
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23.57.35 #       <amiconn> Bagder: If it's the same as H300, but rotated, then the controller is actually used as intended
23.58.10 #       <Bagder> aha