--- Log for 21.01.107  Server: leguin.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 19 days and 18 hours ago

00.00.32 #       <linuxstb> Can you remember what speed you got on the H140?
00.00.38 #       <linuxstb> (with current SVN)
00.00.40 #       <amiconn> umm
00.01.00 #       <amiconn> Should be somewhere in the logs
00.01.11 #       * amiconn greps
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00.03.57 Quit    lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00.04.54 #       <linuxstb> Also, how big was your test file, and did you make an effort to defragment your disk?
00.06.17 Nick    Thundercloud__ is now known as Thundercloud (n=thunderc@81.168.45.180)
00.07.19 #       <entheh> is Adam B aka voltagex here? he e-mailed me about DUMB and fixed-point ages ago
00.07.26 #       <Zagor> umm, is resume not supposed to work in the sim? I get resume back to 00:00.
00.08.21 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Bah, I can't find the speed data :(
00.08.49 #       <amiconn> I didn't defragment the disk before, but there shouldn't be much fragmentation anyway
00.09.04 #       <amiconn> The file was several MB, but smaller than the available ram
00.09.42 #       <mattzz> sorry for jumpin' in - simple question: Sansa e250 is arm-elf, preferred gcc is 4.03, right?
00.10.12 #       <linuxstb> Does around 7.5MB/s seem right?
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00.10.31 #       <amiconn> That's quite fast. Coldfire was definitely slower
00.11.05 #       <linuxstb> That's what my test plugin - using ata_read_sectors() gave me for a 20MB file.
00.11.08 #       <linuxstb> s/file/read/
00.11.08 Quit    thegeek (Connection timed out)
00.11.16 #       <linuxstb> On my H140.
00.11.22 #       * amiconn received the first necessary part for firewire exploration
00.11.40 #       <amiconn> The firewire cable. Now I just have to wait for the 6pin-4pin adapter
00.12.33 #       <linuxstb> mattzz: Yes.
00.12.51 #       <mattzz> linuxstb, thanks.
00.12.54 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: At what clock?
00.13.04 #       <linuxstb> Boosted.
00.13.05 #       <amiconn> I usually run such speed tests uboosted
00.13.12 #       <amiconn> *unboosted
00.13.14 #       <entheh> ok, slightly revised question: does anyone know Adam B aka voltagex? he e-mailed me about DUMB and fixed-point ages ago
00.14.16 >>>     "seen" used by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) [snoop prevented]
00.14.18 ***     Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
00.15.27 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: 7.5MB/s sounds reasonable when boosted
00.16.04 #       * amiconn should perhaps make up a better speed test that does raw disk access
00.16.15 #       <amiconn> It's a bit dangerous for testing writes though
00.16.38 #       <linuxstb> It's OK on ipods, I can just write to unused space in the firmware partition.
00.16.49 #       <Zagor> entheh: no idea, sorry
00.16.57 #       <entheh> ok
00.17.13 #       <entheh> who are the main Rockbox devs? I'm wondering where the request originally came from
00.17.16 #       <entheh> Adam said he was new to the project
00.17.29 #       <entheh> they wanted to put DUMB in, but the main obstacle was the use of floats
00.17.48 Quit    ender` (" To get as fewest unhappy people as possible, always bully the same ones.")
00.18.06 Quit    robin0800 ("Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.")
00.18.18 #       <linuxstb> None of our targets have a hardware FPU, so anyone could have told Adam to avoid floats.
00.18.40 #       <Zagor> well the last irc log with him contains "<voltagex> I wish I was skilled enough to hack on rockbox."
00.18.50 #       <entheh> ok, so that's his nick then
00.19.14 #       <entheh> don't suppose you know who was pushing for DUMB to go in? was it him?
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00.19.31 #       <entheh> I'd be all for it ^^ I'm gonna look at making the official version fixed-point, since I keep getting requests for it
00.19.54 #       <Zagor> entheh: can't say I do. for the last several months, the only mentioning of it on irc is you asking who wanted it :)
00.20.01 #       <entheh> XD
00.20.02 #       <entheh> I'll ask him
00.20.06 #       <entheh> thanks ^^
00.20.16 #       <amiconn> Iirc dumb was originally added to the source tree by HCl, but it was never integrated beyond just building the lib
00.20.23 #       <entheh> ah, so it's already in there
00.20.30 #       <amiconn> It was there
00.20.37 #       <Soap> DUMB the 3d game engine or DUMB the Dynamic Universal Music Bibliotheque?
00.20.40 #       <entheh> the latter
00.20.58 Join    thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s026b.studby.ntnu.no)
00.21.10 #       <amiconn> Since nobody cared about dumb, it was removed again later
00.21.14 #       <entheh> though it'll probably become Darn Uber Mod Bibliotheque, once I've removed the pointless and very badly done genericity that just gets annoying
00.21.16 Quit    XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.21.20 #       <amiconn> (not too long ago)
00.21.53 #       <entheh> well, voltagex's original e-mail to me was last March ;; I was really bad with my e-mails for ages
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00.22.10 #       <entheh> full-time work and insufficient sleep make entheh go lazy
00.22.37 #       <entheh> do you think there'd be interest in DUMB if it were changed not to use floats?
00.22.38 #       <amiconn> Umm, there is no 'attic' sub-dir in svn?
00.22.51 #       <Mikachu> no, you have to select an old revision first
00.22.57 #       <entheh> no worries - I'll be changing it around loads, so I don't suggest you try and recover anything that was done with it while it was in there
00.22.58 #       <amiconn> gah :(
00.23.07 #       <Mikachu> at least in the viewvc thing
00.23.36 #       <amiconn> Mikachu: How would I know which revision to check if that is what I want to find out?
00.23.48 #       <Mikachu> i dunno :)
00.24.04 #       <Mikachu> i would grep the svn log
00.24.11 #       <entheh> look for one dated March to start with maybe?
00.24.17 #       <entheh> 2006
00.25.00 #       <entheh> On Monday 17 April 2006 06:22
00.25.10 #       <entheh> sorry, April, not March - that's when I got the e-mail
00.25.12 #       <amiconn> Zagor: Is viewcvs still functional?
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00.25.32 #       <Zagor> amiconn: looks ok to me
00.25.33 #       <amiconn> That'd be easier...
00.25.33 #       <dave> what version should i download if i wanna watch mpegs on my ipod"?
00.25.37 #       <dave> the cvs build
00.25.38 Quit    thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00.25.40 #       <Zagor> oh, viewcvs. no.
00.25.41 #       <dave> daily build? :)
00.25.45 Nick    mako_ is now known as makmo (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu)
00.25.49 #       <Soap> sure dave.
00.25.51 Nick    makmo is now known as mako (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu)
00.25.54 #       <Mikachu> dave: there's at most 23 hours of difference between them
00.25.58 #       <Zagor> amiconn: I could resurrect it though
00.26.08 #       <dave> oh ok i'll download the daily build.. i havent updated in a year :) brb
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00.26.24 Nick    dave is now known as EnterUserName (n=dave@CPE0014bf8324c4-CM0016b5339a2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
00.26.30 #       <amiconn> Zagor: Nah, it's not _that_ important
00.26.32 Join    thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s026b.studby.ntnu.no)
00.26.50 #       <amiconn> The script seems to be there, but it doesn't find the repo
00.27.48 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Btw, I also ordered an usb charger for tackling the reboot problem
00.27.53 #       <Zagor> entheh: I think a good mod player for rockbox would be welcomed by many
00.27.57 #       <entheh> ^^
00.28.02 #       <amiconn> Should get it on monday
00.28.13 #       <entheh> DUMB's memory usage is a bit high - I'll look at reducing that too
00.28.56 #       <EnterUserName> hey all
00.28.57 #       <amiconn> entheh: It would also be rather useful if dumb could work without malloc()
00.29.10 #       <Zagor> we have a modplayer patch i the tracker: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/5241
00.29.14 #       <EnterUserName> If i havent updated in a year do i have to anything special other than just unzipping the file/
00.29.25 #       <amiconn> Zagor: That's the simple one, right?
00.29.29 #       <Zagor> yes
00.29.29 #       <entheh> could you write a simple malloc-like function for it to use?
00.29.40 #       <EnterUserName> so ijust unzip the file.. easy :)
00.29.43 #       <entheh> same way it has customisable file input?
00.30.00 #       <entheh> good, I'll just make that a hook then - but I'll try and reduce the number of separate, small malloc's it does
00.30.08 #       <amiconn> entheh: We have a simple malloc for codecs, but malloc is generally bad in an environment like rockbox
00.30.28 #       <entheh> because of limited memory I assume?
00.30.32 #       <entheh> and danger of leaks perhaps too?
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00.30.43 #       <Mikachu> there's not really a pool of unused memory
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00.31.07 #       <Zagor> entheh: in rockbox, the normal state is 100% ram used
00.31.08 #       <entheh> DUMB has an option to prepare fast seeking data - it stores a snapshot of the state at 30-second intervals if you ask it to
00.31.25 #       <entheh> that's something that would be really useful I should imagine - if you've got the memory for it
00.31.34 #       <entheh> :/
00.31.58 #       <Zagor> ...because all ram that is not used for code is used for buffers
00.32.31 #       <entheh> realistically, is there any chance of getting a mod player in there then?
00.32.39 #       <Zagor> that's why static allocation works much better than malloc. avoiding leaks is a nice side effect too.
00.32.43 #       <entheh> or any other player?
00.33.00 #       <entheh> because if it's 100% used, then by definition you can't put anything else in, surely
00.33.34 #       <Mikachu> there's 512kB (iirc) reserved for codecs
00.33.39 #       <entheh> and it loads one at once?
00.33.41 #       <Mikachu> they're loaded in there as needed, only one at a time
00.33.47 #       <entheh> OK
00.34.00 #       <entheh> DUMB would need to store the samples somewhere though
00.34.19 #       <entheh> theoretically it could stream all of them if access to the mp3 store is fast enough and random enough
00.34.46 #       <entheh> but they might be compressed
00.34.53 #       <Zagor> the samples are part of the sound data, which is stored in the big audio/file buffer. just like the mp3 data.
00.35.00 #       <entheh> how big?
00.35.02 #       <Zagor> compressed could be tricky
00.35.05 #       <entheh> does it load a whole mp3 in at once?
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00.35.19 #       <Zagor> as many as fits
00.35.21 #       <entheh> it can decompress them on load, if it has somewhere to load them to
00.35.30 #       <entheh> how much RAM is allocated to sound data?
00.35.43 #       <Mikachu> the memory layout is built around codecs that decode streams of data
00.35.44 #       <Zagor> all the ram that is not allocated for anything else
00.35.48 #       <Mikachu> mods don't really fit into that model
00.35.52 #       <entheh> how much RAM is there in total usually?
00.36.00 #       <entheh> Mikachu: yeah, I know :/
00.36.05 #       <Zagor> depends on target. from 2 to 32 megs, typically...
00.36.08 #       <Mouser_X> entheh:  If you get DUMB working on Rockbox, I will GREATLY appreciate it.  I want MOD support (among other formats, of course).
00.36.14 #       <entheh> ^^
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00.36.23 #       <entheh> you'll definitely need a custom version, that's for sure
00.36.34 #       <Mouser_X> I can do that.
00.36.38 #       <entheh> so it's debatable whether it's worth me making a hook for malloc in the official version
00.36.44 #       <Zagor> although software codec targets are usually closer to 32 than 2 :-)
00.36.51 #       <entheh> but I'll start by making the official version fixed-point, because it'll benefit all sorts of people
00.36.54 #       <Mikachu> if you write it as a plugin instead of a codec, you can use the whole audio buffer as you please
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00.37.24 #       <entheh> ok, well I imagine it could be done and just be limited in what mods it can play
00.37.27 #       <Mikachu> but then you can't use the normal wps/playlist system which sort of sucks
00.37.35 #       <entheh> if they've got big samples, it won't be able to play them - or it'll have to stream some samples and might fall over
00.37.39 #       <entheh> but it could try XD
00.37.45 #       <entheh> or cache samples, if they're not all used at once
00.37.50 #       <entheh> ah :/
00.38.11 #       <Mikachu> like viewing an mpg or jpg file
00.38.15 #       <belze> just a small question: would it be easy to implement an initial volume setting together with fading for the playback resume?
00.38.23 #       <entheh> can I look at the API/framework for a codec anywhere?
00.38.30 #       <Zagor> entheh: big samples shouldn't be a problem as long as they're not compressed. uncompressing multi-megabyte samples does not fit into the current playback model though
00.38.50 #       <entheh> belze: to fade the sound in? I'd have thought so
00.39.07 #       <belze> exactly
00.39.10 #       <entheh> DUMB currently decompresses all samples on load
00.39.23 #       <entheh> I think in XM files they're delta-encoded but not compressed, which is simple
00.39.31 #       <entheh> maybe for the benefit of zip if people want to
00.39.38 #       <mattzz> Any Sansa developers online?
00.40.01 #       <entheh> in IT files there is some basic compression, but I think it's just basic data entropy type stuff, no FFT or anything
00.41.01 #       <entheh> Zagor: hmm I see what you're saying - it could play them straight out of the file?
00.41.05 #       <Zagor> entheh: as mentioned above, in rockbox codecs do not load the data themselves. it's more of a stream oriented approach. rockbox loads the data, and gives it to the codec. so you won't be able to uncompress while loading.
00.41.11 #       <entheh> if the compression's simple enough, could the decompression happen per playing instance?
00.41.31 #       <entheh> can I look at the API/framework for a codec anywhere?
00.42.22 #       <amiconn> entheh, Zagor: I don't think dumb will run on the hwcodec targets, and swcodec targets typically have 16MB or more
00.42.38 #       <entheh> 16 MB is loads ^^
00.42.40 #       <amiconn> But there is one swcodec target that only has 1MB ram...
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00.42.47 #       <Zagor> amiconn: yeah, I figured that too
00.42.49 #       <entheh> or at least, should be once DUMB is optimised not to waste it
00.43.10 #       <amiconn> We might be able to get the simple mod player working on hwcodec
00.43.23 #       <entheh> simple mod player?
00.43.24 #       <Zagor> entheh: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/codecs.h?view=markup
00.43.27 #       <amiconn> I doubt dumb will run realtime on an 11MHz cpu
00.43.43 #       <entheh> amiconn: why not?
00.43.57 #       <entheh> if it's enough to decode an mp3, it should be able to do a simple mod file
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00.44.05 #       <entheh> maybe not a 64-channel IT file with NNA and filters
00.44.13 #       <amiconn> The hwcodec cpu doesn't decode mp3
00.44.24 #       <amiconn> Bah, unclear
00.44.25 #       <entheh> ah, it's got hardware accel for mp3s?
00.44.43 #       <amiconn> In the hwcodec targets the cpu doesn't decode mp3, but the hardware codec does that
00.45.02 #       <amiconn> The cpu just feeds the mp2/mp3 stream to the codec
00.45.11 #       <entheh> ok
00.45.23 #       <entheh> so all you use the CPU for is to present a nice interface and so on?
00.46.17 #       <amiconn> basically, yes.
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00.47.00 #       <amiconn> The codec chip can be reprogrammed, but there are next to no docs how to do this
00.47.14 #       <entheh> evil
00.47.16 #       <JdGordon> morning all
00.47.21 #       <Zagor> also there's not much code space in it
00.47.22 #       <amiconn> But we can load a codec that allows to feed through pcm data instead of mp2/mp3
00.47.30 #       <JdGordon> anyone know what the heck the app on the left off http://dreamlinux.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/arquivos/desktop.jpg is?
00.47.51 #       <amiconn> This _could_ allow to get the simple mod player to work
00.48.04 #       <amiconn> Nothing fancy, just basic protracker/noisetracker stuff
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00.48.09 #       <entheh> what is "the simple mod player"?
00.48.10 #       <amiconn> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/5241
00.48.50 #       <entheh> cool :)
00.48.56 #       <entheh> "not based on dumb" :P
00.48.57 #       <Zagor> JdGordon: I belive that's "conky"
00.49.17 #       <JdGordon> cheers Zagor
00.51.09 #       <DataGhost> anyone knows what happened to GodEater? or is it usual that he's not here at this time/day? :)
00.51.12 Nick    Everybody|away is now known as Everybody (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
00.51.35 #       <Zagor> DataGhost: maybe he's got a life :)
00.51.49 #       <DataGhost> yeah I kinda suspected that :P
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00.54.38 #       <Mikachu> what is this life of which you speak?
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00.55.27 #       <entheh> how does request_buffer work? does it give you a pointer to some memory representing the contents of the file?
00.55.42 #       <EnterUserName> hey
00.55.43 #       <entheh> how does that coexist with read_filebuf?
00.55.45 #       <EnterUserName> the sounds all out of sync..
00.55.51 #       <EnterUserName> on the nano L:(
00.55.57 #       <Mikachu> yes
00.56.08 #       <Mikachu> there's no sync code in mpegplayer
00.56.09 #       <EnterUserName> any bitrate will fi it?
00.56.30 #       <EnterUserName> the sounds quicker then the video :)
00.56.37 Nick    Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
00.57.00 #       <EnterUserName> IS there anyway i can do anything about it. any suggestions so it wont be as bad :S
00.57.13 #       <Mikachu> enable frame skip and frame limiter
00.57.22 #       <EnterUserName> with mencoder?
00.57.31 Quit    lini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.57.37 #       <Mikachu> no, in mpegplayer
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00.58.02 #       <EnterUserName> oh i see
00.58.26 #       <EnterUserName> too funny
00.58.34 #       <EnterUserName> i converted my mythtv mpeg to ipod :)
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00.58.49 #       <entheh> amiconn? Zagor?
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01.00.44 #       <Zagor> entheh: I'm unfortunately not the best person to answer this in detail, I haven't looked that much at the codec api
01.00.54 #       <entheh> who would know?
01.00.55 #       <EnterUserName> ok.. ill keep an eye on this. ;) cant wait to you guys get syncing with mpeg player :)
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01.03.08 #       <Zagor> entheh: "annotate" in viewvc says lostlogic committed those lines in the .h file, so he's a good bet. :-) but there are others too, it's just a bit too late here in europe for many of the devs to be here.
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01.03.23 #       <entheh> hehe, I'm in England :P
01.03.40 #       <Zagor> ah, well then you know ;)
01.03.43 #       <EnterUserName> god i love linux :)
01.03.49 #       <entheh> :)
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01.04.16 #       <EnterUserName> So are there any plans to make mpeg player better :) Rockbox is really cool :)
01.04.19 #       <entheh> can you tell me how file buffers work roughly though?
01.04.39 #       <entheh> do the file data get copied into a temporary buffer?
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01.04.57 #       * entheh should read up and see if the above makes more sense now he's seen some API
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01.05.43 #       <entheh> this is interesting anyway - it might mean I can change DUMB so you could use it without deviating from the official source
01.05.50 #       <EnterUserName> what bitrate does everyone use here?
01.05.52 #       <entheh> I'm on the verge of redesigning the API
01.05.53 #       * w1ll14m check's his email and just found out that today his new ipod has been sent, and will be delivered somwhere monday or tuesday
01.05.56 #       <EnterUserName> 44000 sucks :( hows 66000?
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01.06.51 #       <EnterUserName> man i want to get a new ipod nano first generation
01.06.58 #       <Zagor> entheh: no copying is done unless you want it. think of it like a dozen files (can be of different types/codecs) are loaded into ram by rockbox, and then codecs are called with a pointer to "its'" file in ram
01.06.59 #       <mattzz> anybody running rockbox on Sensa e200?
01.07.32 #       <entheh> why bother loading the files into RAM in advance?
01.07.40 #       <entheh> a dozen of them? why not just load the one being played?
01.07.41 #       <Zagor> entheh: to minimise disk spinup
01.07.44 #       <entheh> ok
01.08.02 #       <EnterUserName> What would you guys suggest for bitrate on video
01.08.24 #       <entheh> what if there's a huge mp3? will it then load fewer files up to the same amount of memory, or just load what it can of the huge mp3?
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01.08.54 #       <Zagor> entheh: it will always fill the memory, even it that means loading only the first half of the "last" file.
01.09.01 #       <entheh> ok
01.09.12 #       <entheh> so a mod might end up in that memory too then
01.09.20 #       <entheh> or half a mod
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01.09.56 #       <Zagor> half a mod, yes. or the first half in high ram and the second half in lower ram...
01.10.14 #       <entheh> high ram = faster to access ram?
01.10.21 #       <entheh> or no
01.10.24 #       <Zagor> no, just higher up in the buffer
01.10.24 #       <entheh> cyclic buffer?
01.10.26 #       <Zagor> yes
01.10.44 #       <entheh> it should still be fairly easy to address over that join though
01.11.12 #       <entheh> or ... maybe request_buffer etc. will force you to split your processing where the join is?
01.11.56 #       <Soap> entheh: start with .01 Kbps per pixel and scale down until quality becomes too bad.
01.12.10 #       <entheh> you mean EnterUserName ^^
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01.12.18 #       <Soap> oops, yes indeed
01.12.26 #       <Soap> EnterUserName: ^^
01.12.36 #       <EnterUserName> hrm im confused
01.12.38 #       <entheh> in any case, I've got a pretty good idea on what kind of changes DUMB's API needs
01.12.53 #       <EnterUserName> Soap: i dont know much about encoding which parameter of mencoder do i do that with
01.12.59 #       <EnterUserName> cuz the quality sucks right now at 66000 :S
01.13.01 #       <Zagor> entheh: it might be an idea to look at the sid codec to see how it handles this. it has a little of the same issues.
01.13.01 #       <Soap> the bitrate one.
01.13.02 #       <EnterUserName> and im using 224 bitrate
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01.13.20 #       <EnterUserName> is 66000 better then 44000?
01.13.20 #       <entheh> the mod effect processing, file decoding, sample playback, etc. need separating properly so that you can just use whichever parts you need ... then you can write your own glue to overcome the specific memory systems etc.
01.13.21 #       <Soap> 224 bitrate video?
01.13.31 #       <entheh> Zagor: ok, will do - is it in SVN?
01.13.35 #       <Zagor> yes
01.13.43 #       <EnterUserName> mencoder House_-_2007-01-09,_9-00_PM_-_Words_and_Deeds.mpg -of mpeg -oac lavc -lavcopts acodec=mp2:abitrate=224 -af resample=44100:0:0 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:vbitrate=60000 -vf scale -zoom -xy 176 -o houseipod.mpg
01.13.48 #       <EnterUserName> is what im using..
01.13.50 #       <Zagor> http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/codecs/sid.c?view=log
01.13.59 #       <entheh> thanks :)
01.14.11 #       <Soap> vbitrate of 60000 is obscene if it is in kb
01.14.19 #       <EnterUserName> oh
01.14.30 #       <EnterUserName> Soap what would you suggest starting at?
01.14.42 #       <Soap> .01 kbps per pixel
01.15.04 #       <EnterUserName> im confused
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01.15.25 #       <Soap> what is the target resolution?
01.15.29 #       <linuxstb> EnterUserName: How bit is the resulting file?
01.15.34 #       <linuxstb> I mean how big?
01.15.41 #       <EnterUserName> 176x132
01.15.47 #       <EnterUserName> im totally new at this :S
01.15.57 #       <EnterUserName> the target resolution is 176x132
01.16.03 #       * entheh has never looked at sid before. This is so cool XD
01.16.09 #       <Soap> 176x132x.01 = 232kbps bitrate for the video.
01.16.15 #       <entheh> hmm, that's 6502!
01.16.16 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01.16.26 #       <EnterUserName> so the abitrate would be 232?
01.16.33 #       <EnterUserName> or vbtirate would be 232?
01.16.36 #       <Soap> abitrate = audo bitrate
01.16.43 #       <EnterUserName> ah got it soap thanx :)
01.16.44 #       <Soap> v bitrate = video bitrate
01.16.51 #       <Zagor> entheh: of course. sid music requires emulating the chips.
01.16.59 #       <Mouser_X> entheh:  There's a NSF player in the flyspray, if you want to look at that.  It might be of use as well.
01.17.01 #       <entheh> yeah - I didn't know what chips were involved or anything
01.17.08 #       <Zagor> ok
01.17.08 #       <entheh> I know the NES used 6502, but I didn't know the SNES's sound chip did too
01.17.23 #       <EnterUserName> ok im tryign vbitrate at 232 thank you :)
01.17.28 #       <Zagor> the sound chip is actually the 6581
01.17.28 #       <Mouser_X> SNES used a spc700 chip.
01.17.28 #       <entheh> actually I didn't know anything about the SNES really, and I only knew about the NES because I played with NESticle's debug stuff
01.17.33 #       <Mouser_X> As I recall.
01.17.45 #       <entheh> ah ok, but the mnemonics look the same as for the 6502
01.17.53 #       * entheh learnt 6502 on the BBC
01.18.11 #       <Zagor> yeah, the cpu is a 6510 which is interfacing with a 6581 IIRC
01.18.23 #       <Zagor> and it is from C64, not NES
01.18.42 #       <entheh> I'm not saying it's from the NES, just that the NES uses the 6502
01.18.49 #       <Zagor> ah, ok
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01.19.24 #       <Hotfusion> hi guys. Just put rockbox on. Good stuff.
01.19.27 #       <Zagor> well, have fun. I have to go to bed.
01.19.39 #       * entheh tries to imagine what would happen if the music team at work had to write SIDs >_<;;
01.19.49 #       <entheh> (they can handle working with MIDI ...)
01.20.09 #       <Mouser_X> entheh:  Did you see the NSF patch?
01.20.09 #       <Mouser_X> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6122
01.20.15 #       <Mouser_X> I don't know if that's of worth to you, but it might be.
01.20.18 #       <entheh> looking now
01.20.30 #       <entheh> doesn't mean much to me - what's NSF?
01.20.35 #       <Mikachu> nintendo sound file
01.20.41 #       <Mikachu> sound dumps from nes roms
01.20.46 #       <entheh> oh ok
01.20.53 #       <Mouser_X> If you like the 6502, I'm surprised you didn't know that...
01.21.00 #       <entheh> well I only used it on the BBC
01.21.02 #       <Mouser_X> SPC files are from the SNES.
01.21.03 #       <entheh> I never got into NES dev at all
01.21.05 #       <entheh> or SNES
01.21.08 #       <Mouser_X> Ah.
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01.21.37 #       <entheh> at the moment I'm just trying to get my head round Rockbox's API(s) and how DUMB could be integrated
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01.21.41 #       <entheh> except I'm getting distracted ^^
01.21.48 #       <Mouser_X> Ah.
01.21.50 #       <Mouser_X> Sorry.
01.21.53 #       <entheh> no, it's OK
01.21.57 #       * Mouser_X wants MOD support...
01.21.57 #       <entheh> it's my fault I'm getting distracted
01.22.13 #       <entheh> I'm hoping I'll be able to do MOD, S3M, XM and IT - with filters for IT files XD
01.22.25 #       <entheh> that's what DUMB supports, but it needs a huge overhaul
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01.23.20 #       <Mouser_X> Yes, all of the above would be awesome.
01.23.27 #       <entheh> and as I said above somewhere, I'll try and make it so that you don't have to take a copy of DUMB and modify it
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01.23.53 #       <entheh> I'll rearrange DUMB so that you can actually just link against the bits you need and rewrite the slightly more system-specific stuff
01.24.06 #       <entheh> then I can carry on fixing playback issues in the official version and they'll go straight into Rockbox
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01.24.51 #       <Mouser_X> That sounds like a good idea.
01.25.03 #       <entheh> lol - 'quickfloat' stuff which is actually not float at all but fixed point XD in sid.c
01.25.06 #       <entheh> that's so badly named
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01.31.59 #       <entheh> heh, sid.c takes a very simple approach
01.32.07 #       <entheh> it has a static buffer to load and copy the file into
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01.36.40 #       <EnterUserName> sigh
01.36.58 #       * EnterUserName will wait for new improvement son video still :)
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01.41.30 #       <Hotfusion> im dumb, but where is the max files in dir browswer setting located in rockbox?
01.41.46 #       <amiconn> entheh: Yes, sids are small, and the (fixed) codec ram area is 512KB.
01.42.08 #       <JdGordon> Hotfusion: yes, its configurable in menu > general > system > limits
01.42.30 #       <Mouser_X> entheh:  NSFs work the same way.
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01.42.59 #       <Hotfusion> thx got it
01.42.59 #       <entheh> so presumably that buffer functionality copies from Rockbox's file cache into the codec's RAM?
01.43.11 #       <entheh> but you can also request a pointer into Rockbox's file cache and use it directly?
01.43.19 #       <Mouser_X> entheh: NSFs can't exceed the size of the ROM from which they were ripped, and I am not aware of any NES games that exceed 512kb.
01.43.42 #       <entheh> yeah - unfortunately mods aren't gonna be that easy ;;
01.43.49 #       <entheh> I've got a 10 MB XM file somewhere
01.43.56 #       <Hotfusion> I must say I put off puttin on rockbox for a year on my iAudio X5L bu it's good now and hte battery life seems pretty good. And using rockbox I no longer get thew white screen on startup like I had with cowon's firmware
01.44.10 #       <entheh> :)
01.44.20 #       <entheh> I don't have a portable mp3 player, unless a Nokia phone counts
01.44.26 #       <entheh> I might get one once I get going on this stuff XD
01.44.46 #       <Mouser_X> entheh:  Yes, large MOD/XM/whatever files are a problem.
01.44.56 #       <entheh> I'm not gonna give up on them though
01.45.06 #       <Mouser_X> If you figure out a way around that issue, then I want to see the solution...
01.45.18 #       <entheh> I see no reason why it couldn't stream the samples straight out of the file
01.45.28 #       <entheh> if Rockbox has them in RAM, then it should be fast enough to get at them
01.45.31 #       <Mouser_X> I want to port a PSF player to Rockbox (PSF=Playstation Sound Format.  They're usually rather un-small).
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01.45.42 #       <entheh> it would have to have the whole mod in memory though
01.45.47 #       <entheh> in Rockbox's memory
01.46.20 #       <entheh> though I haven't looked closely at the API and how to do it yet
01.46.25 #       * entheh does just that now
01.46.39 #       * Mouser_X wishes entheh luck...
01.46.45 #       <entheh> thanks ^^
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01.47.26 #       <entheh> hmm, could be a bit tricky with this set of functions
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01.47.36 #       <entheh> as someone said, it does seem very much stream-oriented - no easy random access
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01.48.30 #       <entheh> hmm, there's a direct file access API too
01.48.38 #       <entheh> not useful here I guess though
01.48.44 #       <entheh> that'd spin the drive up presumably
01.48.49 #       <entheh> and be slow
01.49.18 #       <entheh> this thing supports threads? ouch T_T
01.49.37 #       <amiconn> Not ouch
01.49.54 #       <entheh> single-threaded multi-step code is just so much easier to maintain though
01.50.01 #       <entheh> but oh well
01.50.04 #       <amiconn> It's pretty much necessary for what tasks need to be done
01.50.12 #       <entheh> yeah, they're useful sometimes
01.50.16 #       <entheh> what do you use them for?
01.50.17 #       <amiconn> But don't worry, rockbox does cooperative multitasking
01.50.20 #       <entheh> :)
01.50.26 #       <entheh> yeah, I had that feeling
01.50.32 #       <amiconn> ...and codecs run in a single thread
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01.51.23 #       <amiconn> The typical number of threads varies with target and whether certain features are enabled
01.51.43 #       <XavierGr> anyone experianced with netcat here?
01.51.48 #       <amiconn> On iriver H300 there are 14 threads running after boot when a voice file is found
01.52.01 #       <entheh> I guess we use those memset etc. hooks instead of the libc ones?
01.52.28 #       <amiconn> yes, but that's no problem
01.52.39 #       <amiconn> They're #defined for codecs afaik
01.52.44 #       <entheh> ah ok
01.53.00 #       <entheh> I'm hoping a codec could actually be statically linked with parts of the official version of DUMB, once DUMB's been reworked
01.53.12 #       <entheh> so those parts of DUMB would have to refrain
01.53.17 #       <entheh> from using anything in libc I guess
01.53.58 #       <entheh> maybe you would have to recompile parts of DUMB but you could take the source from each release so it would be minimal work to update?
01.54.19 #       <amiconn> The main thread handles the gui. Then there is a codec thread (and a voice codec thread for voice), an ata thread that handles spindown and registered flush functions, a power management thread, a backlight thread, a thread that scrolls text on the lcd...
01.54.31 #       <entheh> ideally I'm hoping I can carry on fixing playback issues in DUMB and they'll just go straight into Rockbox
01.54.44 #       <amiconn> dumb will need to be compiled from source anyway
01.54.52 #       <entheh> ... yeah
01.54.57 #       <amiconn> Our targets have several cpu architectures
01.54.57 #       <entheh> duh ^^ custom CPUs etc.
01.56.11 #       <Mikachu> you'll need to sync the files between dumb and rockbox svn manually
01.56.22 #       <amiconn> Another thing to keep an eye on is endianess problems
01.56.24 #       <Mikachu> but it would be nice if you can just copy them in and have it keep working
01.56.31 #       <entheh> amiconn: I'm very aware of those for DUMB anyway
01.56.39 #       <entheh> DUMB works on the Mac :)
01.56.41 #       <amiconn> ok :)
01.56.50 #       <entheh> Mikachu: yep, that's what I'll aim for :)
01.56.56 #       <amiconn> Coldfire is big endian, our arm targets are little endian
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01.57.18 #       <entheh> this 512 kB of RAM - is that shared by code and data?
01.57.37 #       <amiconn> yes
01.57.44 #       <linuxstb> I thought SVN allowed links between repositories in some way?
01.57.56 #       <Mikachu> i think when you call get_plugin_buffer() you get a pointer to after where your plugin code ends
01.58.02 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Yes it does, according to the online book
01.58.06 #       <Mikachu> linuxstb: it does let you specify a subdirectory that comes from somewhere else
01.58.14 #       <Mikachu> mplayer has 4 or 5 such subdirs
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02.00.51 #       <entheh> amiconn: so the file buffer stuff presumably returns pointers into Rockbox's cyclic file cache thing?
02.01.12 #       <entheh> and it looks fairly easy to use for streaming linearly
02.01.39 #       <entheh> do you think it could be used for random access, so I can stream each sample as it's playing? presumably it's RAM and will be pretty fast to jump around in
02.01.42 #       <entheh> since it's cached
02.02.24 #       <entheh> I can decompress on the fly, and then just cache a small amount of decompressed sample data if they're used a lot and the decompression is too slow
02.03.23 #       <linuxstb> It's not really a cache, it's a ringbuffer.
02.03.33 #       <entheh> yeah, I meant preloaded really rather than cached
02.03.59 #       <entheh> would it be possible to seek around in the file like crazy?
02.04.07 #       <entheh> this is assuming the file fits in the buffer
02.04.18 #       <entheh> and if it doesn't, then it would just have to reject the file
02.04.22 #       <linuxstb> codecs can either request a pointer to data at the front of the buffer (they are then expected to advance that pointer after processing the data), or perform a read() from the buffer.
02.04.25 #       <Mikachu> this is the buffer that's 95% of ram on most targets
02.04.45 #       <entheh> yeah, I guessed that :)
02.04.45 #       <linuxstb> But the problem is the wraparound point - you're only guaranteed a maximum of 32KB of contiguous data.
02.04.49 #       <entheh> that's fine
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02.04.58 #       <entheh> I'll handle wraparound points myself
02.05.21 #       <entheh> so if I request a pointer to the front of the buffer, then advance, then access (and handle wraparound)
02.05.30 #       <entheh> and then do the same again for the next sample I want to mix in
02.05.31 #       <entheh> and so on
02.05.42 #       <entheh> will that work most of the time and thrash the system really horribly with huge files?
02.05.54 #       <linuxstb> No, you can't advance, and then access.  Once you advance the pointer, the playback engine may overwrite the space with the next file.
02.05.57 #       <entheh> what happens if the file is half-loaded at the end of the buffer and it needs to get the rest? will it keep the start?
02.06.04 #       <entheh> ok :/
02.06.14 #       <Mikachu> i don't think any mod file will fill the whole buffer
02.06.34 #       <linuxstb> I don't think the codec can (currently) access both halves of the file if it wraps.
02.06.39 #       <entheh> Mikachu: on an old device with a 10 MB mod file, it might, surely
02.06.54 #       <entheh> linuxstb: I wonder if Rockbox could be changed to make that possible then?
02.07.02 #       <Mikachu> linuxstb: can't it just rudely assume it continues at CODEC_BUFFER_START or whatever?
02.07.35 #       <entheh> so when we say 'ringbuffer'
02.07.38 #       <linuxstb> I'm sure a function could be added to return the two parts.  But the whole file may not be buffered yet.
02.07.55 #       <Mikachu> it might not even if it doesn't wrap
02.08.06 #       <entheh> can Rockbox actually have read halfway through, so the end of the buffer has old data and the start has new?
02.08.07 #       <linuxstb> Yes.
02.08.26 #       <entheh> or does it always replace the whole buffer from start to end, and then start offering data from the start?
02.08.45 #       <Mikachu> it can have several files on the buffer at the same tim
02.08.50 #       <entheh> yeah, I know that much
02.08.58 #       <entheh> but the last bit it read - is that always at the end of the buffer?
02.08.58 #       <Mikachu> obviously they don't all start at the same point :P
02.09.02 #       <EnterUserName> Hi all would using FFMPEG autosync work with rockbox to fix the problem with video/audio syncing
02.09.11 #       <entheh> I could just look at the code - where is it?
02.09.19 #       <linuxstb> There's a "low watermark", so when there is that amount of data left in the buffer, Rockbox tries to fill the buffer again.
02.09.50 #       <linuxstb> entheh: It's apps/playback.c
02.09.59 #       <entheh> right, so the amount it reads from disk in one go isn't always the length of the buffer?
02.10.13 #       <amiconn> entheh: It wraps around when it gets to the end, not when rebuffering
02.10.23 #       * entheh will look at the code
02.10.23 #       <amiconn> Doing the latter wouldn't allow gapless playback
02.10.37 #       <amiconn> It needs to rebuffer _before_ it runs out of data
02.10.53 #       <entheh> right, so presumably
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02.10.59 #       <entheh> say the buffer is 32 MB
02.11.03 #       <Mikachu> midkay: do you still need to have that level hosted?
02.11.14 #       <entheh> the codec is currently reading from data at 22 MB
02.11.14 #       <amiconn> And if you're unlucky, the last track is only buffered half-way
02.11.17 #       <entheh> the data end at 23 MB
02.11.35 #       <entheh> the thing notices that only 1 MB is left, so it reads into everything from 23-32 and from 0-22?
02.11.41 #       <entheh> and sets the new data end to be 22?
02.11.41 #       <linuxstb> Yes.
02.11.44 #       <midkay> Mikachu: nope, i thought I said you could take it down some months ago.. :) anyways, no, thanks for keeping it up though.
02.11.57 #       <entheh> good, so it can end at an arbitrary point - that means it should be possible to say how much previous data you want to keep without too much extra effort
02.12.03 #       <Mikachu> midkay: okay, it doesn't take a lot of space but i also don't want to fill up with random stuff :)
02.12.16 #       <linuxstb> You keep previous data by not advancing the pointer.
02.12.23 #       <entheh> but I will need to be able to read ahead a bit
02.12.27 #       <entheh> including across the wrap-around
02.12.27 #       <entheh> :/
02.12.30 #       <midkay> Mikachu: that's cool, filefront has it now :)
02.12.40 #       <entheh> and I will need it to keep the start of the file so I can go back to it
02.12.45 #       <Mikachu> the wrap-around doesn't affect how much is read in
02.12.50 #       <Mikachu> afaiu
02.12.52 #       <amiconn> entheh: Yes, we will at least need a mechanism to 'lock' a track from its start
02.13.35 #       <entheh> Mikachu: but surely if I'm given a pointer, and I can just index it like an array, then it won't obey the wrap-around and the function MUST limit the length so it doesn't include the wrap-around?
02.14.11 #       <Mikachu> i guess so, but it'll continue filling at the start of the ringbuffer
02.14.13 #       <entheh> Mikachu: sorry, here I'm talking about how much _I_ want to read out of the buffer, not how much Rockbox will read into the buffer in advance
02.14.30 #       <entheh> oh right - I see what you meant about crudely assuming now :P
02.14.33 #       <EnterUserName> what version of mpeg is rockbxo 4?
02.14.35 #       <entheh> but I assume that would be frowned upon
02.14.53 #       <Soap> EnterUserName: 1 or 2
02.14.58 #       <EnterUserName> pj pl
02.15.02 #       <Mikachu> EnterUserName: you can play mpg1 and mpg2, but there will be no a/v sync no matter what you do
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02.15.14 #       <Mikachu> EnterUserName: apart from paying linuxstb large amounts of money
02.15.19 #       <Soap> pj pl?  Speak English,.
02.15.25 #       <Mikachu> pyjamas please?
02.15.31 #       <EnterUserName> Mikachu: Lol ;) So ffmpeg audio syncing option wouldnt work ;)
02.15.40 #       <Mikachu> no
02.15.42 #       <EnterUserName> darn
02.15.57 #       <Mikachu> mpegplayer just plays the audio and video indepentantly
02.15.58 #       <linuxstb> a/v sync is pretty close already, assuming you're getting realtime video playback, and have enabled limit fps and skip frames.
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02.16.25 #       <EnterUserName> ya its still a bit frustratingim using a nano and it kinda plays like a slideshow
02.16.40 #       <linuxstb> Are you using the COP patch?
02.16.48 #       <EnterUserName> umm
02.16.57 #       <EnterUserName> no i downlaoded the Daily build off of rockbox
02.16.57 #       <entheh> this rebuffer thing
02.16.58 #       <Soap> remember also, EnterUserName, that the mpegplayer can't rebuffer, so you can't play movies larger than your buffer - about 30MB on your nano I believe.
02.16.59 #       <Mikachu> i don't think this is a compile-capable one
02.16.59 #       <entheh> how does that work?
02.17.03 #       <entheh> for when you seek in a file?
02.17.05 #       <linuxstb> You should be getting 25-30fps with the COP patch on the Nano.
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02.17.26 #       <Mikachu> entheh: normally all codecs get a chunk of data and decode it, and then they never want that chunk again
02.17.44 #       <entheh> but the user might seek to the start of the file again
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02.17.49 #       <Mikachu> then it's reread
02.17.51 #       <entheh> presumably it knows if it's still in the buffer and uses it
02.17.53 #       <EnterUserName> linuxstb: could you provide me the url on how to incorpate patches?
02.17.54 #       <entheh> and if not
02.17.55 #       <Mikachu> unless it happens to still be in the buffer
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02.18.03 #       <entheh> where in the buffer is it reread to?
02.18.15 #       <entheh> does the whole buffer start again from the start of that file?
02.18.19 #       <entheh> (or from the seek point)
02.18.21 #       <Mikachu> if it's not in the buffer and you seek, then all current buffered data is thrown away
02.18.26 #       <entheh> excellent
02.18.28 #       <Mikachu> i think!
02.18.30 #       <entheh> I could just make that happen, couldn't I?
02.18.34 #       <entheh> and then my mod will go from the start of the buffer
02.18.34 #       <linuxstb> EnterUserName: You could try one of the unofficial builds that already has COP support enabled.  I think senab has one.
02.18.35 #       <Soap> which means under 18 minutes at yout 232 bitrate
02.18.47 #       <linuxstb> EnterUserName: But all the instructions you need are in the wiki.
02.18.49 #       <entheh> and I'm pretty much guaranteed that I won't make it happen again if I just carry on that way - unless the mod is HUGE
02.19.00 #       <EnterUserName> dooh ok
02.19.01 #       <entheh> so all I then need is a way to detect the size of the buffer, and I can do that check, and I should be safe
02.19.10 #       <entheh> how about that solution?
02.19.15 #       <Mikachu> entheh: if you have a playlist of mods, rockbox will load them all into buffer, but each time you reach a new one, you throw them all away
02.19.20 #       <EnterUserName> linuxstb: i guess googling :) for senabs build
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02.19.33 #       <entheh> hmm you're right - it would read each lot of mods twice
02.19.44 #       <linuxstb> EnterUserName: It will be in the "Unsupported Builds" forum.
02.19.45 #       <Soap> actually, EnterUserName, less than 18 minutes because I wasn't taking audio+video into account.
02.19.47 #       <entheh> could be worse, but not ideal
02.19.47 #       <entheh> :/
02.19.54 #       <entheh> better to have the extra methods I guess
02.20.15 #       <EnterUserName> thank you linuxstb :)
02.20.34 #       * amiconn made a suggestion regarding mod (and other non-streaming formats) handling
02.20.46 #       <entheh> about locking to the start of the file?
02.20.49 #       <entheh> that's the extra methods I meant ^^
02.20.55 #       <amiconn> No, that was a quick one
02.21.05 #       <entheh> oh, did you make another one?
02.21.15 #       <amiconn> I mean a method that avoids the wrap within a file, without unnecessary rebuffering
02.21.17 #       <Soap> 9 minutes roughly, EnterUserName, if you are using 224 for your audio and 232 for your video = 456Kb/s bitrate = nine minutes per 30 megs.
02.21.28 #       <entheh> ok, how does that work?
02.21.53 #       <amiconn> There is that guard buffer linuxstb mentioned (the 32KB at the end which are guaranteed to be continuous)
02.21.58 #       <entheh> ok
02.22.18 #       <amiconn> My suggestion is that this guard buffer size could be dynamic, set by the track loader depending on the format
02.22.51 #       <entheh> would a mod loader then set it to the size of the file it's reading in?
02.22.59 #       <amiconn> For mods, the loader would set guard_size = file_size, so if it doesn't fit at the end (before the wrap), the whole file will be wrapped to the start
02.24.04 #       * amiconn goes to sleep
02.24.12 #       <entheh> so that would mean I could just get a buffer representing the whole file?
02.24.29 #       <linuxstb> Yes, that's the idea.
02.24.58 #       <entheh> wouldn't this need hardcoding in the loader then?
02.25.13 #       <entheh> presumably the codec isn't necessarily loaded while the tracks it'll decode are loaded
02.25.21 #       <entheh> it might be playing an mp3 but want to prefetch a mod
02.25.45 #       <linuxstb> The loader knows what kind of file it's loading, so can do different things for formats such as mod.
02.26.12 #       <entheh> but it would have to be hardcoded there
02.26.31 #       <entheh> seems a bit unmodular :/
02.26.32 #       <linuxstb> Yes, but codecs aren't designed to be independent from Rockbox.
02.26.34 #       <entheh> ok
02.27.13 #       <entheh> yeah, it's true - it's not as if you can ship a codec separately, I assume
02.27.52 #       <linuxstb> No, any codec that someone ports, we would want to add to the official source tree.
02.28.02 #       <entheh> ok ^^
02.28.07 #       <entheh> that sounds like a really good solution then
02.29.25 #       <linuxstb> The problem is that not many people know the playback code well enough to implement it...  I don't.  I know how it works in theory, but not the nasty details.
02.30.09 #       <EnterUserName> linuxstb: that worked..
02.30.15 #       <EnterUserName> thanks that build is worknig ;)
02.30.46 #       <entheh> playback code?
02.31.00 #       <Mikachu> everything in playback.c and pcmbuf.c i think
02.31.05 #       <Mikachu> is a mystery to most
02.31.08 #       <entheh> (surely we're talking about the loading code)
02.31.16 #       <entheh> (I guess that's in playback.c?)
02.31.25 #       <Mikachu> your guess is as good as mine :)
02.31.31 #       <entheh> hehe
02.32.04 #       <Soap> so who is the master of the playback code, then?
02.33.25 #       <Mikachu> i think lostlogic is one of two
02.35.06 #       * entheh finds codec_seek_buffer_callback and looks at what it's doing
02.35.07 #       <Hotfusion> im still trying to getg this to shuffle
02.35.09 #       <Hotfusion> lol
02.35.31 #       <Hotfusion> im making a playlist in winamp
02.35.36 #       <linuxstb> entheh: Yes, the "playback engine" - the code that handles buffering amongst other things.  The codecs themselves are relatively simple - there are lots of examples you can copy to understand the API.
02.35.38 #       <entheh> eek - firefox has just broken
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02.36.36 #       <entheh> yeah, but we need to change playback.c for this to work :/
02.36.46 #       <entheh> rarrr, konqueror uses proportional spacing for the code
02.36.48 #       <entheh> that's just bad
02.37.26 #       * entheh fixes the config
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02.42.23 #       <habana> hi
02.42.33 #       <entheh> looks as if playback.c uses a funky queue mechanism, presumably to talk to other threads ... maybe
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02.42.52 #       <entheh> there's an audio_queue which is used to reload the song when seeking backwards
02.43.06 #       <entheh> just if the point being seeked to has been discarded
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02.43.54 #       <habana> i was reading disktidy.c  , wondering if i could add an entry to delete .Trash-loginname dir created by Ubuntu
02.46.00 #       <habana> the only trouble i have is that bin dir depends of the login name and i dont know how to add deletion of a variable dir
02.46.03 #       <habana> any idea ?
02.46.47 #       <Mikachu> strncmp checks only the first n characters of the string
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02.49.15 #       <habana> thanks
02.49.25 #       <EnterUserName> hrm it still has problems with syncing heh ;)
02.49.36 #       * EnterUserName hands linux some money :p
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03.18.51 #       <habana> Mikachu> kind of that ?                         if (rb->strncmp(entry->d_name, ".Trash-" 5) == 0)
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03.30.23 #       <Hotfusion> need to read the FAQ's a little more. Every file on my playlist in rockbox shows as error when created from winamp
03.31.59 #       <Mouser_X3> Winamp doesn't follow the same format.
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03.32.42 #       <Mouser_X> Hotfusion:  Open up a Winamp created playlist in a TEXT editor, and do the same with a Rockbox created one.
03.32.47 #       <Mouser_X> You'll notice the difference.
03.32.56 #       <Mouser_X> Winamp locates files as such:
03.33.08 #       <Mouser_X> X:\music\file.mp3
03.33.18 #       <Mouser_X> (Minus the drive name, often)
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03.33.36 #       <Mouser_X> (So, more like "\music\file.mp3")
03.33.48 #       <Mouser_X> Rockbox is like so:
03.34.13 #       <Mouser_X> "/music/file.mp3"
03.34.30 #       <Mouser_X> All you need to do is to replace all of the
03.34.42 #       <Mouser_X> "\" with "/" and it'll be fine.
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03.34.57 #       <Hotfusion> I can't seem to get this to shuffle random songs
03.35.02 #       <Mouser_X> (Worked for me, at least.)
03.35.04 #       <Hotfusion> no matter if I create a playlist or not
03.35.32 #       <Mouser_X> I've never used the shuffle feature on anything, Winamp, or otherwise.
03.35.44 #       <Soap> <smartass>How can you tell if random songs are shuffled?</smartass>
03.36.22 #       <Mouser_X> Soap:  At one time, I had the 3 CD soundtrack to Chrono Cross memorized.
03.36.31 #       <Mouser_X> I would have noticed if it was shuffled.
03.36.33 #       <Hotfusion> like in cowon's firmware if I have shuttle on any songs in the list was randomly selected
03.36.37 #       <Mouser_X> That's just an example.
03.36.38 #       <Hotfusion> so it was never in order
03.36.48 #       <Hotfusion> im trying to get it to work that way in rockbox
03.36.57 #       <Hotfusion> shuffle*
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03.39.28 #       <Mouser_X> Hotfusion:  Shuffle works me just great.
03.39.33 #       <Mouser_X> What target are you using?
03.40.11 #       <Mouser_X> I turned on shuffle by creating a list (it had over 1000 entries), and then pusing, and holding, the menu button.
03.40.21 #       <Mouser_X> *pushing
03.40.26 #       <Hotfusion> I go to play list options and have it create a root.m3u8 playlist but the songs are in different order but each song is sequential order. That isn't true shuffle
03.40.56 #       <Mouser_X> Indeed it's not.  Turn shuffling on.
03.41.03 #       <Hotfusion> it is on
03.41.09 #       <Mouser_X> It doesn't create shuffled playlists, that I know of.
03.41.27 #       <Mouser_X> When going to the next song in the list, it should skip to a different song.
03.42.22 #       <Hotfusion> If I have like 2500 tracks. if I go to an artists folder the very next song in that folder is played
03.42.31 #       <Hotfusion> so no shuffle.....im not sure im doing this right
03.42.55 #       <Hotfusion> but it's on :/
03.43.30 #       <Mouser_X> Did you try what I said (Just want to be sure it's on)?  While a song is playing, push and hold the menu button.
03.44.06 #       <Mouser_X> On my screen, there's shuffle on the left, file display in the middle, at the bottom, and repeat on the right.
03.44.40 #       <entheh> whoo
03.44.53 #       * entheh is trying to allay the Allegro community's fears at his proposal to change DUMB's API >_>
03.45.08 #       <Mouser_X> When in that menu, if I push the left button, shuffle settings are changed.  If I push the right button, the repeat settings change.  If I push down, file display settings are changed
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03.45.31 #       * Mouser_X again wishes entheh luck on that...
03.45.37 #       <entheh> hehe
03.45.42 #       <Mouser_X> I've seen how hard that can be sometimes...
03.45.51 #       <entheh> a couple of people want compatibility headers, but I don't think it's really possible
03.46.06 #       <entheh> some people are dynamic-linking, and I can't possibly keep it binary-compatible
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03.46.36 #       <entheh> my original proposal was new header and library file names and to keep the old one around so only projects in development would have to update
03.46.53 #       <entheh> and I can't see a way not to do that ^^
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03.47.08 #       <entheh> they mostly seem OK though
03.47.17 #       <entheh> ... probably
03.47.20 #       <entheh> :/
03.47.48 #       <Mouser_X> If it gets MOD/XM/IT/S3M/etc. support on Rockbox, I'm all for it.
03.47.51 #       <entheh> XD
03.47.57 #       <entheh> I know that much
03.47.59 #       <Mouser_X> Unless it requires maiming people...
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03.48.32 #       <entheh> lol ^^
03.48.37 #       <entheh> I can choose carefully if you like
03.48.39 #       <entheh> make sure it's only n00bs
03.48.44 #       <entheh> arrogant ones
03.48.44 #       <Mouser_X> Heh.
03.49.26 #       <Mouser_X> How about this.  Make sure that if anyone is hurt, that I never hear about it.
03.49.38 #       <entheh> don't worry, no one will be hurt
03.49.43 #       <Mouser_X> What I don't know, can't make me feel bad (for the most part...)
03.49.52 #       <Mouser_X> Yes, I figured.
03.49.57 #       <entheh> assuming my boss doesn't see any of the "keep the compatibility" posts and faint
03.50.06 #       <Mouser_X> Heh.
03.50.11 #       <entheh> (occasionally I share Allegro newbishness with him ^^)
03.50.32 #       <entheh> (don't get me wrong, Allegro's very good. All communities have newbs in them ^^)
03.50.41 #       <Mouser_X> This is true.
03.50.48 #       * Mouser_X must be leaving.
03.50.52 #       * entheh likes Allegro. It has problems, but it's still good
03.50.54 #       <entheh> ok, mata ne
03.50.56 #       <entheh> me too soon
03.52.16 #       <Hotfusion> did you ahve to create a playlist to shuffle or does it rly on your tags. I go to my msuic folder go into a artist folder and play a song but it plays the next song
03.52.32 #       <Hotfusion> I held my button on the Cowons x5l stick
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03.56.55 #       <Hotfusion> cant even get songs to play now
03.57.05 #       <Hotfusion> wow I messed this up
03.57.05 #       <Hotfusion> lol
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04.01.38 #       <Hotfusion> hey when you say hold the menu b utton do you mean hold hte joystick while a song is playing
04.01.40 #       <Hotfusion> ?
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04.06.51 #       <Hotfusion> ok it seems it does shuffle but not exactly the way I want. If I have one file ina folder it'll shuffle to a different folder and play that song. But If I have a folder that has say 10 songs in it I have to go through all 10 songs for it to shuffle to a different folder
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04.14.59 #       <combrains> Hotfusion, rb is playlist based so to shuffle all of your tracks you have to add them all to one big playlist and then it will shuffle all tracks
04.15.52 #       <Hotfusion> ok, I'll do that winamp thing you guys had suggested
04.15.57 #       <Hotfusion> see if that works
04.17.26 #       <Hotfusion> I do like rockbox alot just trying to figure somethings out. I hated cowon's frimware. Every other time I'd get a white screen when I turn the player on...not with rb
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04.28.23 #       <Hotfusion> cool I got it working thx combrains and everyone
04.29.49 #       <combrains> hah - with the new bootloader and all my gb says I only have 3 hrs of play time from a fully recharged battery
04.30.32 #       <Hotfusion> fantastic
04.30.42 #       <combrains> I did a bench on the old bootloader and got about 16 hrs out of it - be interesting to see what I get out of this one
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04.45.53 #       <perldiver> combrains
04.45.59 #       <perldiver> that can be true
04.46.03 #       <perldiver> everything works fine here
04.46.05 #       <perldiver> for a while
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04.46.37 #       <combrains> what are you reffering to?
04.47.03 #       <perldiver> new bootloaders, latest builds etc
04.47.58 #       <combrains> no, it works fine but it was just interesting for me to find that the gb only estimated 3hrs of runtime from a full battery
04.49.02 #       <combrains> im doing another bench atm to see how the new 'opimised' bootloader with CPU scaling performs
04.49.11 #       <combrains> see if it gets anymore runtime
04.49.17 #       <perldiver> in info/rockbox info ?
04.49.43 #       <perldiver> i have estimated 15 hours 27 minutes there
04.50.09 #       <combrains> ah, no I just glanced at the wps
04.50.18 #       <combrains> will check info now
04.51.06 #       <combrains> ah - I have 10hrs 20mins now
04.51.15 #       <combrains> same on the wps as well
04.51.25 #       <combrains> guess I jumped the gun alittle
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04.53.56 #       <Hotfusion> gb is gigabit?
04.54.02 #       <Hotfusion> err
04.54.05 #       <Hotfusion> gigabeat?
04.54.41 #       <perldiver> yes
04.54.59 #       <Llorean> gb is usually "gigabytes"
04.55.31 #       <Llorean> But some people use it for gigabeat as well
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04.59.02 #       <Hotfusion> yeah I figurd
04.59.10 #       <Hotfusion> it was pretty obvious right lol
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05.00.10 #       <Hotfusion> I get about 16 or so hours on my iAudio X5L I ran narly 5 hours on it and it still reported 13 hours left
05.00.18 #       <Hotfusion> not to bad
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05.00.51 #       <Llorean> Don't really trust the reports.
05.01.01 Quit    entheh ("^~")
05.01.17 #       <Llorean> They're at best estimations, and they assume your battery capacity is set properly, and that your battery performs like everyone else's.
05.01.20 #       <Hotfusion> it's not close to the cowon but it's still decent run time
05.01.34 #       <Mouser_X> Hotfusion:  I created a playlist by selecting a directory (with recursive loading on), and inserting it into a new playlist.  Then, when the first file was playing, I turned on shuffle, and it worked for me just fine.
05.01.37 #       <Llorean> You don't know how long the life is until you've run an actual benchmark.
05.01.41 #       <Hotfusion> I charge it when it's needed
05.01.44 #       <Mouser_X> I haven't tried any other methods.
05.01.50 #       <Hotfusion> usually when it's out or about gone
05.02.25 #       <Hotfusion> hey Mouser I did the winamp tridck replacing K:\mp3\ with /music/
05.02.28 #       <Hotfusion> and it worked perfect
05.02.31 #       <Hotfusion> trick*
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05.05.06 #       <Mouser_X> Glad to help.
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05.15.14 #       <Hotfusion> looks like the theme page is offline
05.15.33 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: The wiki works fine for me.
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05.18.25 #       <Hotfusion> it worked earlier. Trying to donwload more themes
05.18.31 #       <Hotfusion> not workin at the moment
05.18.55 #       <Hotfusion> trying to dl'd from thw twiki
05.18.59 #       <fathefner> it the a build for the creative zen m
05.19.09 #       <fathefner> is there
05.19.12 #       <fathefner> a buils
05.19.14 #       <fathefner> build
05.19.42 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGigabeatF doesn't work for you?
05.19.53 #       <Llorean> fathefner: All supported targets are listed on the front page of the site.
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05.21.07 #       <fathefner> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.0;prev_next=next
05.21.16 #       <fathefner> i saw that and was wondering
05.21.24 #       <Hotfusion> llorean it does but the pics are x'd out and the dl'd links don't work but I have an IaudioX5 so
05.21.31 #       <Hotfusion> that's what im trying to get themes for
05.22.05 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: Well http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIaudioX5 works fine for me too
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05.22.35 #       <Hotfusion> link works but the download links under each theme don't and I can't see the samples for the themes listed
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05.22.47 #       <Llorean> fathefner: As I said, supported targets are listed on the front page. The forum threads are just for people to discuss trying to start a port.
05.22.50 #       <Hotfusion> lemme turn off firewall
05.22.57 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: I can see the images and everything
05.23.25 #       <Hotfusion> I have no clue then
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05.24.15 #       <Llorean> And downloads work for me too.
05.24.30 #       <Hotfusion> as I said
05.24.35 #       <Hotfusion> they worked earlier for me
05.24.37 #       <Hotfusion> not now
05.25.06 #       <Llorean> And refreshing the page doesn't change anything for better or worse?
05.25.43 #       <Hotfusion> hmm seems server is playing with me
05.25.44 #       <Hotfusion> lol
05.26.12 #       <Llorean> Or your internet connection is just inconsistent.
05.26.18 #       <Hotfusion> nope
05.26.20 #       <Hotfusion> it's just fine
05.26.47 #       <Llorean> Evidence suggests it might be otherwise if the site's working fine for me.
05.26.59 #       <Hotfusion> evidence suggests otherwise for me
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05.27.24 #       <Llorean> What evidence? The fact that it works okay except for one webpage doesn't suggest anything except "You have problems accessing that webpage"
05.27.33 #       <Hotfusion> it's not my connction
05.27.34 #       <Kaitlyn2004> I go to the "daily builds" page, and nothing shows up?
05.28.10 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: The server ran out of space earlier, so it's possible that those aren't happening right now.
05.28.18 Quit    Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
05.28.20 #       <Kaitlyn2004> oh.. lol
05.28.22 Nick    Mouser_X3 is now known as Mouser_X (n=mouser_x@67.110.120.159.ptr.us.xo.net)
05.28.24 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i can't seem to download ANY file?
05.28.53 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: What file won't download for you?
05.29.08 #       <Kaitlyn2004> http://www.rockbox.org/download/rockbox-2.5-install.exe
05.29.32 #       <Llorean> Are you on an archos?
05.29.43 #       <Kaitlyn2004> nope, x5
05.29.49 #       <Llorean> Then why are you trying to download that?
05.29.52 #       <Hotfusion> that's not needed for an x5
05.29.53 #       <Kaitlyn2004> and I tried to download the x5 bootloader through the wiki.. that didn't work either
05.29.58 #       <Kaitlyn2004> what do I need then? lol
05.29.59 #       <Hotfusion> I got an x5 Kaitlyn
05.30.09 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: See, *now* there's evidence that suggests it's the server.
05.30.13 #       <Hotfusion> you need the bootloader
05.30.15 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Hotfusion: yayy! :)
05.30.23 #       <Llorean> But downloads.rockbox.org is up
05.30.28 #       <Llorean> Which has both the bootloader and the SVN builds
05.30.31 #       <Hotfusion> and the iAudio zip file
05.30.36 #       <Llorean> eerr download.rockbox.org
05.30.43 #       <Llorean> http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/iaudio/
05.30.45 #       <Llorean> X5 bootloader
05.30.50 #       <Hotfusion> lol Llorean
05.30.59 #       <Kaitlyn2004> oh thanks!
05.31.03 #       <Kaitlyn2004> so i need the firmware too though?
05.31.15 #       <Hotfusion> the bootlaoder is the firmware
05.31.22 #       <Llorean> http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-iaudiox5/rockbox.zip
05.31.25 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: No, it's not
05.31.28 #       <Llorean> The bootloader is the bootloader
05.31.31 #       <Llorean> And the firmware is the firmware.
05.31.35 #       <Llorean> Rockbox.zip is the firmware.
05.31.37 #       <Hotfusion> yes but you flash it in the firmwre folder
05.31.48 #       <Llorean> But it's not THE firmware.
05.31.54 #       <Llorean> It's just a small piece of code that loads the firmware from the disk
05.31.55 #       <Kaitlyn2004> so why do I need this special boatloader?
05.32.07 #       <Hotfusion> but technically that's software
05.32.10 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: Because it loads the Rockbox firmware.
05.32.10 #       <Hotfusion> lol
05.32.21 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: And on most of the players we support nothing needs to get flashed at all.
05.32.24 #       <Llorean> But "Rockbox" is the firmware.
05.32.29 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i read that the x5 has its own builtin loader?
05.32.32 #       <Hotfusion> :)
05.32.59 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: We have specific terms in this channel, and rockbox.iaudio or the equivalent is considered to be 'the firmware' and we ask that users respect these terms so as to reduce overall confusion.
05.33.12 #       <Hotfusion> not sure what you mean Kaitlyn
05.33.16 #       <Llorean> The application/OS is the firmware, and the bootloader is the bootloader.
05.33.29 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: Are you following the install instructions in the manual?
05.34.00 #       <Hotfusion> it's eay to install
05.34.07 #       <Kaitlyn2004> im following this:
05.34.07 #       <Kaitlyn2004> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IaudioBoot#Installation
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05.34.44 #       <Hotfusion> I finally got it to where I like it. Takes a little time but I love the themes and no more white screen
05.34.49 #       <Hotfusion> aka pos cowon firmware
05.34.54 #       <Hotfusion> that really annoyed me
05.35.34 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Hotfusion: so I put that bootloader into the firmware, let it load, but then how do I actually load the firmware? put it in the root?
05.35.46 #       <Hotfusion> yes
05.36.01 #       <Mouser_X> Kaitlyn2004:  Ask Llorean.  Seriously, he knows very well what he's talking about.
05.36.23 #       <Mouser_X> I'm not saying Hotfusion can't be helpful, but Llorean knows his stuff.
05.37.25 #       <Hotfusion> bootloader goes into the firmware folder the other files that is in teh iAudio zip file into root. Plug in the black plug into the player and have it plugged into hte player and turn the player on
05.37.27 #       <Hotfusion> it was simple
05.37.38 #       <Hotfusion> the instructions are more clearer than me
05.37.39 #       <Hotfusion> lol
05.38.51 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i turned it on.. rockbox boot loader turned on
05.38.53 #       <Kaitlyn2004> then it shut off
05.39.07 #       <Mouser_X> Did you install the firmware?
05.39.07 #       <Hotfusion> ok take off the black plug in unit
05.39.11 #       <Hotfusion> turn it on
05.39.11 #       <BHSPitMonkey> JdGordon, yo
05.39.21 #       <JdGordon> hey
05.39.31 #       <Hotfusion> but yeah you have to install the firmware to :)
05.39.31 #       <BHSPitMonkey> can I pm, JdGordon
05.39.37 #       <JdGordon> shoot
05.39.39 #       <Kaitlyn2004> how do I INSTALL the firmware then? lol
05.40.18 #       <Hotfusion> you know the iAudio.zip file that contains an .rockbox folder and a file those go into root. Ask llorean he knows hehe
05.40.26 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i did that
05.40.30 #       <Mouser_X> This is why the bootloader is differentiated from the firmware.
05.40.31 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Llorean: what did I do wrong? haha
05.40.52 #       <Kaitlyn2004> I have a folder - .rockbox, and a file - rockbox.iaudio in my root
05.40.57 #       <Mouser_X> Bootloader loads the firmware.
05.41.11 #       <Mouser_X> Did you install the bootloader according to the Wiki?
05.41.16 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: When the Rockbox bootloader shows up, what is the last line it says?
05.41.24 #       <Kaitlyn2004> results: -1 i THINK
05.41.32 #       <Kaitlyn2004> thats the line after "loading firmware" i believe
05.41.35 #       <Kaitlyn2004> it happens quickly
05.41.46 #       <Llorean> The -1 line means that rockbox.iaudio was not found in \
05.41.49 #       <Mouser_X> Sounds like the firmware isn't loaded properly.
05.41.54 #       <Hotfusion> yeah not in root
05.41.59 #       <Mouser_X> *installed
05.42.04 #       <Kaitlyn2004> haha weird cause I see it right there! :(
05.43.03 #       <Kaitlyn2004> its definitely there
05.43.16 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: Not in *any* folders, just in the root of the device?
05.43.20 #       <Kaitlyn2004> yes
05.43.25 #       <Kaitlyn2004> H:/rockbox.iaudio
05.43.39 #       <Hotfusion> you did download the X5 bootlaoder and not the X5V?
05.43.40 #       <Llorean> Are you sure the number was -1 then?
05.43.43 #       <Hotfusion> assuming you have just an X5
05.43.57 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i downloaded from the link provided..
05.44.09 #       <Kaitlyn2004> ya
05.44.14 #       <Kaitlyn2004> x5_fw.bin
05.44.38 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: Please answer my question...
05.44.47 #       <Kaitlyn2004> double checking now
05.46.35 #       <Kaitlyn2004> rockbox boot loader.... version 2..... batt 3.89v..... loading firmware.....results -1
05.46.41 #       <Kaitlyn2004> *result
05.47.06 #       <Llorean> -1 means the file wasn't found.
05.47.12 #       <Llorean> The rockbox.iaudio file.
05.47.38 #       <Kaitlyn2004> its FULLY there!? :(
05.47.56 #       <Kaitlyn2004> gonna try daily build
05.48.08 #       <Llorean> If it found the file but it was partial, you should get different numbers than -1.
05.48.56 #       <Kaitlyn2004> http://i10.tinypic.com/2hxag43.gif
05.49.23 #       <Llorean> I'm not doubting that it's there.
05.49.28 #       <Llorean> I'm just saying that for some reason it can't find it.
05.49.37 #       <Kaitlyn2004> ya... so do you have any ideas?
05.49.52 #       <Llorean> Well, it's odd that you have a completely nameless file there.
05.49.55 #       <Llorean> Is everything okay with the disk?
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05.50.33 #       <Kaitlyn2004> ya i noticed that..
05.50.37 #       <Kaitlyn2004> I couldn't delete it either
05.50.43 #       <Kaitlyn2004> I have on occasion turned it on to an HDD error
05.51.01 #       <Hotfusion> you should have a rockbox.iAudio file and a .rockbox folder in root
05.51.06 #       <Hotfusion> it should load it right up
05.51.13 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Hotfusion: I have that
05.51.20 #       <Kaitlyn2004> although its iaudio
05.51.22 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: If the disk is having problems then that could explain things.
05.51.23 #       <Kaitlyn2004> not iAudio (case)
05.51.25 #       <Hotfusion> did you extract the entire thing
05.51.31 #       <Kaitlyn2004> of course
05.51.37 #       <Llorean> Hotfusion: You're just repeating things that have already been said.
05.51.38 #       <Mouser_X> Hotfusion:  If you checked her linked GIF file, you'd see that she has all that.
05.51.40 #       <Kaitlyn2004> im gonna format the drive
05.51.46 #       <Hotfusion> so what
05.51.54 #       <Kaitlyn2004> how should I best format the drive?
05.52.20 #       <Llorean> Kaitlyn2004: I'm not sure how for X5s, if they can be safely formatted at all.
05.52.27 #       <Kaitlyn2004> hmmm
05.52.31 #       <Mouser_X> Llorean:  Is it case sensitive?  Might that make a difference?  Though, I'm assuming it's currently named correctly, and in the right casing...
05.52.38 #       <Llorean> Mouser_X: Fat32 isn't case sensitive.
05.52.50 #       <Mouser_X> True.  I thought Rockbox was though.
05.52.59 #       <Mouser_X> Perhaps only for certain things...
05.53.05 #       <Hotfusion> not sure aht build you did but I did the 1-20-2007 build
05.53.21 #       <Mouser_X> (I could have sworn I read something about case sensitivity in the manual somewhere...)
05.53.22 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Hotfusion: know of a safe way to format the drive?
05.59.13 Nick    Tman is now known as cheesesticks (i=tyler@unaffiliated/tman)
05.59.18 #       <Hotfusion> you could try tod o this plug you player into yoru computer. Make not of the drivfe letter and if your drive letter is drive F type format F: /fs:FAT32 /v:iAudio that's the only way I know through comand line
05.59.20 Nick    cheesesticks is now known as Tman (i=tyler@adsl-69-153-24-22.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
05.59.44 Part    Llorean
05.59.47 #       <Hotfusion> I have a bad index finger (bent nail) so my typing stinks
06.00.00 #       <Hotfusion> note*
06.00.00 #       <Kaitlyn2004> Hotfusion: the iAudio has a lot of "custom" folders and files though
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06.00.06 #       <Hotfusion> yes
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06.00.14 #       <Hotfusion> lemme look at what you'll need to keep
06.02.15 #       <Hotfusion> VOICE, TEXTFILE, SYSTEM, recordings, RECORD, PLAYLIST, PICTURE, MUSIC, MOVIE, FIRMWARE I also have an A and _SYS folder but im not sure what thy are there for, I also have a NED_LIC file
06.02.16 #       <Hotfusion> that's it
06.02.47 #       <Hotfusion> each of those with hte exception of the NED_LIC system file is a folder
06.03.03 #       <Kaitlyn2004> okay.. well right now im doing an error check on the disk.. might as well start with that
06.03.19 #       <Hotfusion> yep. You know how to do command line?
06.03.36 #       <Kaitlyn2004> start->run->cmd, but i prefer right click, format :)
06.03.57 #       <Hotfusion> command line is safer I think lol
06.04.07 #       <Hotfusion> what drife letter is your player
06.04.11 #       <Hotfusion> drive*
06.04.17 #       <Kaitlyn2004> H:
06.04.35 #       <Kaitlyn2004> haha i dn't think its safer at all.. larger room for error :)
06.04.41 #       <Hotfusion> so type in format H: /fs:FAT32 /v:IAUDIO
06.04.53 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i'll just copy that stuff off... format.. put those back on... then start it up...
06.04.59 #       <Hotfusion> the /v is for the label of the disk
06.05.06 #       <Hotfusion> and /fs stands for filesystem
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06.05.53 #       <Hotfusion> between you and I kait
06.05.59 #       <Hotfusion> I hated cowons firmware
06.06.10 #       <Hotfusion> I kept getting a random white screen when I turned on my player
06.06.18 #       <Kaitlyn2004> i never got that.. i don't dislike it
06.06.46 #       <Hotfusion> it was more of an annoyance
06.07.08 #       <Kaitlyn2004> my main thing is I "upgraded" from a H120 and I liked that more..
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06.08.39 #       <Hotfusion> this transformer theme is nice
06.09.04 #       <Kaitlyn2004> sure. if you're a huge nerdy loser! :)
06.09.17 #       <Hotfusion> hahahah
06.09.19 #       <Hotfusion> sadly :(
06.10.47 #       <Mouser_X> I listen to show themes on a regular basis.  Inspetor Gadget, Gilligan's Island, Ghostbusters...
06.11.09 #       <Hotfusion> go go gadget rockbox
06.11.11 #       <Hotfusion> lol
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06.12.55 #       <sneakums> ah yes, transformers. robots in the skies.
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06.14.00 #       <Hotfusion> that's gonna be a great movie coing out later this year
06.14.03 #       <Hotfusion> coming*
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06.32.28 #       <Mouser_X> This was unexpected...
06.32.34 #       <Mouser_X> I can't access the logs.
06.32.47 #       <Mouser_X> http://www.rockbox.org/irc/current.txt
06.32.48 #       <hcs> tabula rasa
06.32.49 #       <Mouser_X> 404
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06.35.41 #       <Hotfusion> hmm forbidden to view tiki page error 403
06.36.53 #       <Hotfusion> twiki*
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07.09.14 #       <Mouser_X> Call me crazy, but Rockbox.org seems to be down.
07.10.14 #       <hcs> you crazy, but it looks like it
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07.23.29 #       <sneakums> it pings, but no http.
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08.08.24 #       <Audioengineer> rockbox is back up - but no images or SVN builds
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08.23.05 #       <midkay> wiki isn't working either
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08.40.24 #       <Audioengineer> I tried a few minuts ago - rb and the wiki were up but with no images or SVN build page
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08.49.01 #       <ErifNeerg> just wondering but is there a disadvantage w/ using Loader2 rather then rockbox's loader?
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08.50.47 #       <ErifNeerg> hmmm... nobody awake?
08.51.09 #       <combrains> just reading the site and I would say no
08.51.16 #       <combrains> but i dont have an ipod
08.51.39 #       <combrains> If i were you i would be inclined to give it a whirl anywat
08.52.12 #       <ErifNeerg> kk, i didn't see one myself. I just don't always want to use rockbox all the time
08.53.00 #       <ErifNeerg> yea, i works fine as far as i can tell. I've done it before when i had ipodlinux but i really don't see the point cause i don't really need linux
08.53.08 #       <ErifNeerg> just something that will play ogg
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08.54.22 #       <ErifNeerg> i don't get y more players don't support ogg/flac
08.54.55 #       <hcs> the licensing fees of $0 are too expensive
08.55.26 #       <combrains> probably because its not as popular as mp3 so they cant be bothered spending money to caode it in
08.55.45 #       <ErifNeerg> yea, gess... thanks combrains
08.55.51 #       <combrains> :P
08.56.29 #       <ErifNeerg> but isn't aac/mpg4 suppost to replace mp3? argh... i just hate mp3s
08.56.58 #       <combrains> aac is apple's own encoder - i thought
08.57.15 #       <hcs> nope
08.59.11 #       <combrains> its the whole VHS vs BETA thing again - poularity wins out
08.59.58 #       <ErifNeerg> yea, i just find it wierd that Dolby att sony and nokia have all worked on aac
09.00.41 #       <ErifNeerg> zune supports aac
09.00.52 #       <ErifNeerg> but who has one?
09.01.49 #       <sneakums> aac is part of the mpeg4 standard, i believe
09.02.02 #       <ErifNeerg> yea, something like that
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09.03.01 #       <ErifNeerg> aac was designed to replace mp3 fixing alot of the bugs/mistakes in mp3
09.04.09 #       <ErifNeerg> is there any music webpages like emusic that sells ogg/etc music?
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09.07.52 #       <tucoz> anyone know what is wrong with the website?
09.08.07 #       <ErifNeerg> other then images not showing up?
09.08.18 #       <tucoz> wiki is not working for instance
09.08.31 #       <ErifNeerg> dunno
09.08.41 #       <ErifNeerg> server being worked on?
09.08.52 #       <tucoz> hope it´s not another break-in
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09.09.45 #       <tucoz> i think they worked on the server yesterday, so it is hopefully that.
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10.14.39 #       <ninj5> i use winamp to sync my ipod, rockbox should be able to handle that using database, yes?
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10.15.55 #       <BHSPitLappy> rockbox generally tries to avoid using databases...
10.16.22 #       <ninj5> not the generated database
10.16.24 #       <ninj5> its own one
10.19.58 #       <NathanXP2600> is anyone else having problems with the rockbox.org site?
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10.23.12 #       <ninj5> hrmm
10.23.29 #       <ninj5> i suppose i just have to wait until someone updates itdb2tc
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10.26.57 #       <ninj5> thx
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10.58.09 Mode    "#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11.00.49 #       * JdGordon is sick of this damn patch :p
11.02.14 Topic   "www server hacked and vandalised. investigation underway. backup is available." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
11.03.39 #       <JdGordon> :( why the hell do people do that?
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11.07.05 #       <NathanXP2600> i wondered why the site was dead for a few hours and now is barely there (no images and no files)
11.08.01 #       <NathanXP2600> in that reguard does anyone feel like DCCing me the 2.5 release or the daily build for the archos 20gb fm recorder?
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11.13.32 #       <amiconn> NathanXP2600: Just fetch the latest SVN build from http://build.rockbox.org/
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11.15.56 #       * n1s looks at the topic and wonderes if people don't have anything better to do
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11.27.38 #       <JdGordon> morning amiconn, apart from fixing 1 tiny thing, I have finished the setting on disk patch.. thought you might like to know :)
11.27.56 #       <n1s> voice is working?
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11.28.32 #       <JdGordon> It is only the part which handles the saving/loading to disk, menus arent touched, so they will come in after, possibly slowly (I plan to do that part in a way that can transition from the current to the new stuff over time without breaking anything)
11.29.01 #       <JdGordon> n1s: it _should_ I bassically started the patch again.. testing comes in a min
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11.29.46 #       <NathanXP2600> amiconn, thank you verrrrrrrrrrry much its been driving me knuts having to use stock firmware since i reformatted it this morning
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11.31.28 #       <Genre9mp3> WTF? not again... :<
11.31.31 #       <JdGordon> ... the patch doesnt handle vnram settigns at all.. so I dont want to commit it untill someone speaks up about that
11.33.23 #       <Genre9mp3> Can we restore the wiki to the state it was before?
11.33.58 #       <n1s> topic sys ther's a backup so I guess so...
11.33.59 #       <JdGordon> Genre9mp3: sunday morning in sweden... dont expect much back up today I rekon :p
11.34.51 #       <Genre9mp3> They wiped-out the frontpage, too? do you know?
11.36.03 #       <JdGordon> yeah, Zagor came in before to chane the topic, and I guess change the frontpage...
11.36.34 #       <Genre9mp3> argh! :(
11.38.51 #       * JdGordon wishes he didnt say he only had 1 thing to fix in the patch :p
11.38.55 #       <JdGordon> .. before testing
11.39.04 #       <n1s> ;-)
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11.54.01 #       <blubb-kbox> hi
11.54.30 #       <blubb-kbox> guys i got the ata error -1, and i cant find any solutions concerning this problem.
11.54.47 #       <n1s> install what's in the rockbox zip
11.54.50 #       <blubb-kbox> i looked up misticiriver and the rockbox forums
11.55.11 #       <blubb-kbox> the player isnt booting anymore on rockbox
11.55.27 #       <blubb-kbox> the original firmware of river says, "check hdd connection"
11.55.35 #       <blubb-kbox> i checkt the connection and everything was fine
11.55.40 #       <n1s> blubb-kbox: did you unzip a file called rockbox.something an a folder called .rockbox to the root of your player
11.55.53 #       <blubb-kbox> yeah..
11.55.57 #       <blubb-kbox> rockbox was working fine
11.55.59 #       <blubb-kbox> for weeks
11.56.12 #       <n1s> ahh, did you try reseating the drive?
11.56.20 #       <blubb-kbox> format?
11.56.31 #       <blubb-kbox> i cant format anymore
11.56.33 #       <n1s> iow disconnect it and reconnect it
11.56.40 #       <blubb-kbox> yeah, i did
11.56.40 #       <n1s> inside the player
11.57.03 #       <n1s> sounds like some sort of hw failure then :-(
11.57.21 #       <blubb-kbox> that means that the drive is dead?
11.58.02 #       <n1s> maybe the hd is dead, maybe someone else knows something else that can cause this?
11.59.27 #       <blubb-kbox> i dont now. its not my player, i got an h140, and the problem is on the h340 of a friend of mine
11.59.36 #       <blubb-kbox> he said,that he wasnt using the player for 3days
11.59.51 #       <blubb-kbox> later he tried to start and nothing was working anymore
11.59.54 #       <n1s> did he drop it or had previous problems with the drive?
11.59.59 #       <blubb-kbox> nope
11.59.59 #       <Mikachu> maybe out of battery?
12.00.12 #       <blubb-kbox> hm
12.00.30 #       <blubb-kbox> there wouldnt be the check hdd connection screen?
12.00.30 #       <n1s> Mikachu: that shouldn't make rockbox bootloader go error -1
12.00.34 #       <blubb-kbox> arent?
12.01.06 #       <n1s> but shure it's worth a try
12.01.12 #       <blubb-kbox> k
12.02.23 #       <blubb-kbox> i gonna give it a try
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12.49.30 #       <FUzZy2> hi, does anyone know where the is some documentation on creating lists?
12.50.05 #       <blubb-kbox> creating lists for what?
12.50.27 #       <FUzZy2> just as a gui i'm just going to use it as a simple menu
12.51.10 #       <JdGordon> w00t! 1 stupid misplaced break; was all that killed it ;p
12.52.23 #       <FUzZy2> so does anyone know where some documentation is because there is nothing about it in the plugin_api docs i dld
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12.53.24 #       <linuxstb__> FUzZy2: You need to look at the rest of the Rockbox source to see how it's used.  But there is already a menu widget...
12.53.25 #       <JdGordon> FUzZy2: there is a menu widget in the plugin api
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12.53.38 #       <JdGordon> the list widget is very easy to use also
12.54.01 #       <JdGordon> both have ample examples in the various utility plugins (text editor shows both)
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12.54.51 #       * JdGordon needs to upp the ata thread stack :'(
12.55.00 #       <JdGordon> although, this was expected
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12.55.13 #       <FUzZy2> just i had a quick look over it and i couldnt see exactly how it worked
12.55.53 #       <FUzZy2> like does it wait and only return something when it is selected or will it return every action
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12.57.18 #       <JdGordon> FUzZy2: you give the menu an arrray of items to show, then call rb->menu_show() and it will return once the user exits the menu (it will keep running while the user goes in and out of items)
12.57.36 #       <JdGordon> rb->menu_run will only run untll the user enters an item, or exits the menu
12.57.45 #       * JdGordon might have then switched tho :p
12.57.49 #       <JdGordon> going off memory
12.58.45 #       <FUzZy2> havnt seen menu_run thats not in text editor is it
12.59.16 #       <JdGordon> proably not... you only need that one if you want some funky menu handling... the default handling should be fine
12.59.33 #       <FUzZy2> do u mean menu_init?
13.00.19 #       <JdGordon> no, you need that also
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13.01.39 #       <FUzZy2> bugger wish they kept there documenation up to date they havnt even got plugin header in it
13.01.57 #       <FUzZy2> can i find an example of this somewhere?
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13.03.17 #       <JdGordon> there is a simple example in apps/plugins/text_editor.c from line 405
13.03.32 #       <JdGordon> that uses rb->menu_show(), so it returns when the user selects an option
13.05.06 #       <FUzZy2> ok
13.05.20 #       <FUzZy2> thanx you answered some quistions
13.06.10 #       <amiconn> menu_run() is in fact easier than menu_show
13.06.42 #       <amiconn> menu_run() only returns when the user leaves it, while menu_show() returns when an item is selected
13.08.29 #       <JdGordon> only if the items have a function associated with them
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13.21.56 #       <muesli__> hey you guys seem to be prefered victim for hacks :-(
13.23.49 #       <JdGordon> WOOOOOT! settings from the hard disk is working 99% :D only have to fix the filename settings and its done
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13.26.46 #       <JdGordon> is anyone around that wants to talk shop?
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13.28.10 #       <Juddy> hello
13.28.37 #       <Juddy> i just got the toshiba F version of rockbox
13.28.45 #       <Juddy> where can i find rockboy?
13.29.22 #       <Juddy> anyone?
13.35.21 #       <markun> Juddy: do you have any gameboy roms?
13.35.50 #       <Juddy> hello markun
13.35.54 #       <markun> hi
13.35.59 #       <Juddy> not yet but i know where to get them
13.36.05 #       <markun> just click on a rom and it will load rockboy
13.36.19 #       <Juddy> hey i have seen ure name on my gigabeat forums
13.36.27 #       <Juddy> oh cool ill load them onto the player then
13.36.28 #       <Juddy> sweet
13.36.44 #       <markun> Yes, it's very likely you saw my name there
13.36.47 #       <Juddy> what kinda movies can this thing play?
13.37.07 #       <Juddy> i tried a 180mb~ xvid of the office and t didnt play
13.37.12 #       <markun> mpeg, but it's not ready for general use yet
13.37.28 #       <Juddy> oh kk
13.37.30 #       <Juddy> any size ok?
13.37.39 #       <markun> mpeg 1 or 2 with mp1,2 or 3 audio (at 44.1kHz)
13.38.04 #       <markun> best results if you scale the image to fit inside the 320x240 screen
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13.38.14 #       <Juddy> how do i make on the fly playlists?
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13.39.06 #       <markun> Juddy: if you hold 'select' (center of the cross) you can add files and directories to the playlist
13.39.36 #       <Juddy> press create playlist before hand?
13.39.53 #       <markun> Juddy: when the rockbox website is restored you should read the manual
13.39.55 #       <markun> have to go
13.40.11 #       <Juddy> ok cheers
13.40.16 #       <Juddy> thanks mate
13.40.25 #       <Juddy> mite c u on the forums again
13.42.40 #       <pixelma> the manual is still downloadable from http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf-20070121.pdf
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13.45.47 #       <Juddy> thanks mate
13.45.55 #       <Juddy> ill have to look more carefully next tim
13.46.06 #       <Juddy> e
13.46.13 #       <Juddy> im really bad at finding things
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13.51.54 #       <JdGordon> does anyone know which setting causes the h300 to lock up when the menu button is pressed? (when set wrongly!)
13.52.27 #       <n1s> no, does it do it with a regular build?
13.52.46 #       <JdGordon> no, my hacked build
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13.53.01 #       <n1s> should I test?
13.53.19 #       <JdGordon> soon.... trying to get themes loading first.. then it sould eb ready
13.54.11 #       <Juddy> hey correct me if im wrong but if u update rockbox like it says in the manual u will lose all ure themes u download?
13.54.27 #       <Mikachu> you won't
13.54.54 #       <Juddy> but im copying over the folders with the themes am i not?
13.55.33 #       <n1s> Yes, but it won't delete what's already present on the disk but not in the zip
13.57.39 #       <Juddy> ah
13.57.53 #       <Juddy> i thought it replaces whole folders when u do that
14.02.53 #       <Bagder> http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml still lists the manuals btw
14.03.02 #       <Bagder> its only without pictures for now
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14.09.47 #       <JdGordon> n1s: voice still works btw :)
14.10.35 #       <n1s> nice :-)
14.10.51 #       <n1s> not that i use it but anyway
14.10.57 #       <JdGordon> ditto
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14.13.59 #       <pixelma> I use voice... and I am very curious... also I'll be able to test the backlight settings...  :D
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14.15.32 #       <n1s> unofficial builds! :-P
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14.19.26 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: how will resume position be saved? (hopefully binary)
14.20.03 #       <JdGordon> pixelma: atm, everything is going into one config.cfg file
14.20.20 #       <pixelma> meh...
14.20.27 #       <JdGordon> but I intend to split it into a system.cfg file also
14.20.40 #       <JdGordon> and move the system "settings" into a seperate struct
14.21.21 #       <pixelma> I really disliked this in your old version
14.21.30 #       <linuxstb> Why not something like "status.bin" - which will be in NVRAM on targets which support it.  The important difference IMO is that they are not settings, but state variables we want to retain between boots.
14.21.38 #       <JdGordon> I'm not sure what we want to do about the old rtc config block...
14.22.00 Nick    idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
14.22.27 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: yeah, something like that, but I'd rather not have to go back to the bit packing for the block like currently
14.23.03 #       <linuxstb> I don't think you can avoid it.  There's a big difference between state variables and the huge settings struct we currently have.
14.23.35 #       <amiconn> The old rtc config block would be replaced by the binary status variables
14.23.45 #       <linuxstb> But maybe we don't need bit-packing, just byte-packing.
14.23.56 #       <amiconn> There's no need to use the old sophistcated bit table for this
14.24.07 #       <amiconn> They're not too many, and the rtc offers 44 bytes
14.24.08 #       <JdGordon> byte packing would be nicer... but the archos only have 44 bits spare dont they?
14.24.10 #       <amiconn> (iirc)
14.24.17 #       <amiconn> 44 _bytes_
14.24.48 #       <JdGordon> ok, well that should be enough then, even if we do it byte packed
14.25.02 #       <pixelma> the old version took ages disturbed screen updates, leading to ugly things when running e.g. oscilloscope
14.25.38 #       <JdGordon> this version is started from scratch.. so it should be better.. its cleaner anyway
14.26.35 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: 7.5MB/s read on coldfire boosted is correct
14.26.42 #       * amiconn improved his ata test plugin
14.27.00 #       <Mikachu> i thought playlist position was saved in .rockbox/.playlist_control
14.27.21 #       <amiconn> Write aligned: 6.5MB/s unaligned: 6.3MB/s. Read aligned: 7.6MB/s unaligned: 7.2MB/s
14.27.38 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: nice... think I'm going to test
14.28.09 #       <JdGordon> prob not tonight tho.. I just realised its 12.30am :p but im not tired... so we'll see
14.28.24 #       <JdGordon> is the lang file extension on the targets .lng or .lang?
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14.33.24 #       <n1s> lng
14.34.15 #       <JdGordon> ta
14.36.06 #       <amiconn> Ata read is slower than write on ipod, at least on my mini G2?? :confused:
14.36.28 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: around?
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14.41.52 #       <linuxstb_> amiconn: What speeds are you getting on your mini?
14.42.59 #       <linuxstb_> For boosted aligned reading, I got around 3.5MB/s on my photo, and around 5.4MB/s on my video.  I haven't tested anything else.
14.43.39 #       <amiconn> Ipod mini G2, 30MHz: Write aligned 3.8MB/s unaligned 2.7MB/s. Read aligned: 1.8MB/s unaligned: 1.5MB/s
14.43.49 #       <amiconn> That's real file access
14.44.59 #       <amiconn> 75MHz: Write aligned 4.3MB/s unaligned: 4.3MB/s. Read aligned: 2.7MB/s unaligned: 2.4MB/s
14.45.27 #       <amiconn> The write speed @ 75MHz looks like it's limited by the microdrive
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14.54.53 #       <yw> can rockbox support audio on sansa now?
14.55.05 #       <Soap> no
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14.58.49 #       <JdGordon> no strstr in rockbox?
15.01.31 #       <Mikachu> there's strcasestr
15.01.55 #       <JdGordon> hmm... close enough I guess...
15.02.10 #       <JdGordon> Just gotta fix the rgb loading and im done :D
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15.02.30 #       <n1s> bbl
15.02.37 #       <Mikachu> i have an strstr.c, i must have added it myself :)
15.03.58 #       <JdGordon> strcasestr is good enough.. i only need it to check the filename extensions, and its not so bad if we allow .WPS in the .cfg file
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15.08.52 #       * JdGordon wonders if his naming scheme is flawed.... "settings[i].setting.sound_setting.setting" :D
15.08.59 #       <DataGhost> lol
15.09.36 #       <entheh> XD
15.09.50 #       <JdGordon> actually... its not that bad.. the first .setting was a copy/paste mistake
15.10.31 #       <DataGhost> yaay
15.10.34 #       <DataGhost> I knew it
15.10.35 #       <DataGhost> http://www.ams-ix.net/technical/stats/cgi-bin/16all?log=totalall;png=daily
15.10.46 #       <DataGhost> my ISP is having a national everything-failure :X
15.11.08 #       <DataGhost> since 14:00 approx.
15.13.23 #       * JdGordon is ready to submit a patch :)
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15.23.18 #       <JdGordon> ok, patch online.. fs 6557, please lemme know what you think.
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15.30.34 #       <Mikachu> JdGordon: i'm almost 100% sure that if you use a string more than once in a file, gcc merges them
15.32.20 #       <JdGordon> ?
15.32.54 #       <JdGordon> Mikachu: you talking about the off_on variable at the top of settings_list.c?
15.33.17 #       <Mikachu> yeah i just noticed they were there before too
15.33.19 #       <JdGordon> that was copy/paste from settings.c... saves typeing and c/p errors later
15.35.03 #       <Mikachu> i think using the variables even increases memory usage :)
15.36.15 #       <Mikachu> yep, just tried it
15.36.43 Quit    pixelma (" laters")
15.36.54 #       <Mikachu> it's just 40 bytes or something though
15.40.23 #       <JdGordon> as opposed to just typing it every time?
15.40.49 #       <Mikachu> yeah, typing it explicitly instead of using a static const hi[] uses less
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15.41.46 #       <JdGordon> meh, if 40bytes is really that important we can #define it then
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15.51.01 #       <Juddy> hey guys what a good program to use to get movies and shows in a format rockbox will play?
15.58.38 #       <Soap> Oh lordy, in the process of upgrading my build enviroment I've bloated my colinux install to almost 2GB.  Does anybody have any idea where the cruft could be hiding?
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16.02.14 #       <Mikachu> Soap: does df -h in linux say 2GB is used too?
16.02.24 #       <Soap> 1.9
16.02.59 #       <Soap> I assume rockboxdev.sh leaves behind the old cross-compilers?
16.03.08 #       <Mikachu> likely
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16.03.49 #       <Soap> 2GB is livable, as it will work in even FAT32 systems, but I'd like to get it as small as possible.
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16.26.59 #       <kirkunit> hello.. RockBox seems to crash when I try and play a track. It just freezes on the WPS, can anyone help?
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16.30.11 #       <n1s> kirkunit: which player, what kind of file, did it use to work?
16.30.44 #       <kirkunit> iAudio X5. mp3. Weirdly, it seems to be working ok now
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16.31.01 #       <n1s> Soap: rockboxdev.sh left behind 500 megs of stuff in the build-rbdev and tmp folders in my home folder that isn't neccesary
16.31.16 #       <n1s> kirkunit: well, that's good then
16.31.23 #       <Soap> thanks n1s I _just_ found that as you mentioned it.
16.31.49 #       <n1s> kirkunit: if you manage to reproduce it, please report a bug
16.31.54 #       <n1s> Soap: :-)
16.31.55 #       <kirkunit> nls: ok
16.32.14 Quit    linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16.33.12 #       <kirkunit> nls: i have another question, there is already a PLAYLISTS folder on my X5 (from before I installed RockBox), and rockbox creates a dir called 'Playlists'. Is it safe to delete the PLAYLISTS dir?
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16.35.15 #       <n1s> kirkunit: should be, but do you have both?
16.35.27 #       <willie``> hello, could anybody help me. Im on ipod nano, followed the instruction and the error i got is -4, may i know what it is
16.35.44 #       <kirkunit> yes
16.36.31 #       <n1s> kirkunit: strange, but it should be safe, (I dind't think FAT32 allowed more than one dir with the same name...)
16.37.11 #       <n1s> willie``: did you install the correct version for your ipod and did you do an eject/safe unmount before disconecting it?
16.37.36 #       <willie``> yes i did safe unmount b4 dcing it
16.37.54 #       <kirkunit> but aren't directories case sensitive?
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16.38.08 #       <n1s> kirkunit: shouldn't be on fat32 afaik
16.39.23 #       <n1s> willie``: an -4 error for the ipod bootloader is "Read failed (image)" better ask linuxstb when he's around
16.39.47 #       <kirkunit> another problem, when I use Database view mode, when view an album, each track is duplicated 4 or 5 times.
16.40.02 #       <willie``> alright
16.40.45 #       <willie``> do i need to update my original ipod firmware?
16.41.06 #       <n1s> willie``: I suppose a scandisk or equivalent couldn't hurt, and no need to update the of
16.42.46 #       <willie``> scandisk ?
16.43.00 #       <willie``> sorry, new to rockbox
16.43.17 #       <n1s> willie``: which os are you on (on your computer)?
16.43.29 #       <willie``> WindowsXP
16.44.01 #       <PaulPosition> kirkunit - Those duplicated tracks... Is it after initializing the db or more like after a few 'updates' (or auto-updates) ?  I find updating sometimes f*** things up and I prefer the slower delete-db-diles -> initialize DB from scratch way...
16.44.33 #       <n1s> willie``: does your ipod show up as a drive in "my computer"
16.44.53 #       <willie``> yea, removable drive
16.45.22 #       <n1s> right click on it and there should be some sort of button do check for errors
16.45.39 #       <n1s> right click and choos properties, I mean
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16.47.03 #       <willie``> err..
16.47.13 #       <willie``> i guess i'll redo the steps again
16.49.47 #       <kirkunit> PaulPosition: yes, i suspect it's where I've requested a updates. Seems strange that it should do this though.
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16.49.56 #       <PaulPosition> willie - What n1s is suggesting is checking the disc for file-system errors (like having two folders with the same name.. That's *weird* on a fat32 partition)...  Right click the drive->properties->tools->Error Checking.
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16.50.33 #       <kirkunit> PaulPosition: I think i tried to initialize the database again, but it didn't remove the duplicates
16.50.42 #       <willie``> nope, no error
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16.51.34 #       <PaulPosition> Kirkunit - For all I understand, databse updates work great for songs you added but sometimes not so well with stuff you either deleted, changed and such.. I don't know enough to point out 'where' exactly it "malfunctions"..
16.52.00 #       <willie``> shld i just download the old one instead of the latest one?
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16.53.27 #       <kirkunit> Anyone here using an iAudio X5?
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16.56.25 #       <PaulPosition> Willie: kirkunit - Just as a test.. In .rockbox folder, delete all the database***.tcd files, re-initialize database, reboot the device and see if there's still dupliates. (or did you already try)
16.56.39 #       <PaulPosition> oops. that wasn't for willie but for kirkunit.. sry.
16.56.58 #       <willie``> haha :)
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17.00.48 #       <kirkunit> PaulPosition: thanks... i'll try that.
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17.04.06 #       <kirkunit> PaulPosition: there aren't any tcd files in .rockbox? unless they're in a sub-directory?
17.04.26 #       <willie``> guys, its working fine now :D
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17.07.00 #       <OgMaciel> hello...  I installed rockbox on a ipod nano 1st gen. last night and created a playlist using the exaile player... but I can't see the playlist when using the iPod... can someone give me a hand please?
17.07.56 #       <robin0800> whats the exstension?
17.08.38 #       <robin0800> and have show all enabled
17.09.15 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800:   mostly Oggs...
17.09.48 #       <robin0800> no the playlist
17.10.59 Quit    linuxstb___ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17.11.25 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: the device says .m3uB
17.12.30 Quit    Criamos (Success)
17.12.32 #       <robin0800> is that suposed tom be 8? at the end
17.13.22 #       <spug> is there any way to crop a playlist? like, remove all songs except the currently playing
17.13.28 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: could very well be
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17.14.24 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: I created the playlists using Exaile
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17.14.59 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: when I turn on the device, I don't see them or at least I don't see the names I gave them
17.15.30 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: but I do have music files in them...  inside the iPod_controler(?) folder
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17.18.15 #       <robin0800> I you mean from itunes?
17.19.16 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: I don't iTunes...  Linux only here...  from inside a folder called iPod_Control which must have come with the iPod
17.19.23 #       <OgMaciel> don't have
17.20.00 #       <OgMaciel> I installed rockbox last night and that added a .rockbox folder and the bootloader
17.20.23 #       <OgMaciel> the other folder, calendar, contacts, ipod_controler already existed
17.20.27 #       <robin0800> and that is the path in the play list is it
17.20.59 #       <OgMaciel> robin0800: no... I cannot see the playlists... this path is where the music files are
17.21.11 #       <OgMaciel> Exaile placed them there
17.22.20 #       <robin0800> where do you think it put the playlist?
17.23.11 #       <OgMaciel> no idea... but how about this...  I know where they are now... I'm trying to create a playlist now
17.23.28 #       <OgMaciel> I click the save playlist option
17.23.38 #       <OgMaciel> I get the screen where I can type it
17.23.43 #       <OgMaciel> the name that is
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17.23.53 #       <OgMaciel> I hit the save button
17.23.56 #       <Buffliberty> hi all :)
17.24.13 #       <OgMaciel> now, this should be in the main menu now?
17.25.23 #       <Buffliberty> i'm looking for "rockbox-sansa-in-progress-nosound-dual-boot-19-12-2006" for get DOOM files :) can some1 help me to get it (all links i found in web are deads)
17.26.18 #       <robin0800> read the annoucement on the forum
17.27.52 #       <Buffliberty> what do i have to check there Oo
17.29.15 #       <Buffliberty> anyway the link on rockbox don't work too .. that's why i'm asking to some1 send me if it's possible
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17.29.41 #       <robin0800> the forums are up
17.30.08 #       <Buffliberty> i know
17.31.06 #       <Buffliberty> One question: is it possible to put an image on background of the Rockbox menu (sansa rockbox)
17.31.28 #       <robin0800> yes
17.32.32 #       <robin0800> the file of the right format goes in the background folder
17.32.50 #       <Buffliberty> ok thanks
17.33.35 #       <Buffliberty> what about the size ... i mean ???x???
17.33.41 #       <preglow> hacked again???
17.36.41 #       <n1s> preglow: yes, it seems so :-(
17.36.48 #       <robin0800> it depends on the target read the relevent manual
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17.42.16 #       <preglow> if this turns out to be twiki again...
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17.44.13 #       <KCC> server hacked and vandalized?!
17.44.19 #       <preglow> yes
17.44.23 #       <preglow> not the first time
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17.44.32 #       <preglow> at least they say they have backups this time
17.44.38 #       <preglow> i hope they're more recent than the last, hehe
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17.46.38 #       <KCC> thats honestly pathetic
17.46.54 #       <KCC> why hack an opensource firmware project?
17.47.08 #       <KCC> there's no political gain to be made..
17.47.48 #       <preglow> haha
17.47.54 #       <preglow> i suspect they just do it for fun too, i'm afraid
17.48.00 #       <preglow> they're very seldom politically motivated, afaik
17.48.30 #       <preglow> also, there's plenty of script kiddies around who just do it because they can
17.49.39 #       <thegeek> damnit!, those closed-source activists just won't quit
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17.51.21 #       <KCC> lmao
17.51.31 #       <KCC> is there a major competitor for Rockbox?
17.51.32 #       <thegeek> ;P
17.51.39 #       <thegeek> not afaik
17.51.43 #       <KCC> perhaps it was an attack of jealous desperatrion? :)
17.51.55 #       <thegeek> ipodlinux is the only comparable project
17.52.03 #       <KCC> or desparation, Im still debating.. lol
17.52.18 #       <thegeek> meh
17.52.32 #       <KCC> ipodlinux eh.. sounds very limited in its applications
17.52.37 #       <thegeek> the ipodlinux people is like 99% noobs/idiots and 1% brilliance
17.52.39 #       <KCC> Rockbox FTW
17.52.51 #       <thegeek> indeed
17.52.53 #       <Buffliberty> lol :x
17.53.11 #       <thegeek> and that's a compliment to the devs btw
17.53.22 #       <thegeek> the 99% is the majority of the users, not the devs;P
17.53.50 #       <KCC> hahaaa
17.53.57 #       <KCC> im sure the devs are brilliant
17.54.08 #       <KCC> you should get them to join the Rockbox project..
17.54.13 #       <KCC> CLEARLY we're better than them
17.54.20 #       <KCC> well not we, since im not included
17.54.21 #       <thegeek> haha
17.54.24 #       <thegeek> me?
17.54.26 #       <Mouser_X> I still don't understand why you'd even want Linux on an iPod...
17.54.36 #       <thegeek> I tend to agree
17.54.41 #       <thegeek> but on the other hand, it is kinda cool;P
17.54.44 #       <preglow> for the same reason you'd want rockbox?
17.54.51 #       <preglow> that's more of a developer question, not a user question
17.55.12 #       <preglow> linux is just a kernel, after all
17.55.27 #       <Mouser_X> No, you'd want Rockbox because it allows you to use the full potential of your player.  It opens it up for music playback like the OF never did.
17.55.37 #       <Mouser_X> I don't see how Linux can do that.
17.55.41 #       <thegeek> huh?
17.55.45 #       <thegeek> ofcourse it can
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17.56.03 #       <preglow> that depends on the application software
17.56.05 #       <preglow> linux us just a kernel
17.56.13 #       <preglow> it allows everything you want it to
17.56.34 #       <thegeek> indeed
17.56.37 #       <Mouser_X> I guess I'm not familiar enough with Linux then.
17.56.57 #       <goffa> Mouser_X: think embeded system
17.57.15 #       <goffa> you can turn your player into any application
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17.57.44 #       <goffa> it's not about punching text into a command line (although that could be an option)
17.58.20 #       <Mouser_X> Well, looking at it that way, it does sound more appealing than it did.
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17.59.14 #       <foolsh> I have a question: Which trunk is better to compile and install rockbox-devel or rockbox,, I guess what im asking are there debug symbols in the dev tree or are they the same after compiling?
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17.59.25 #       <KCC> So my poor 'beat hasnt had its build updated for a solid 4 days now
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17.59.32 #       <KCC> looks like shes gunna have to wait a bit more
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18.00.23 #       <preglow> KCC: the builds are still up...
18.00.33 #       <preglow> just visit the website
18.00.48 #       <terinjokes> is the SVN recent changes still up?
18.00.55 #       <preglow> foolsh: is there even a rockbox-devel anymore? i thought the two were the same now
18.00.58 #       <preglow> terinjokes: yes
18.01.01 #       <preglow> just read the website
18.01.01 #       <foolsh> yes
18.01.20 #       <foolsh> maybe there are
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18.01.34 #       <foolsh> they*
18.01.41 #       <terinjokes> preglow: i don't see them
18.02.14 #       <preglow> terinjokes: forget that, i misread, the recent changes aren't up, just the builds
18.02.39 #       <terinjokes> ok... anything major since last weekend?
18.02.40 #       <preglow> terinjokes: but that page also allows you to view changes, just click the date for each build
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18.04.43 #       <foolsh> I guess i could compile both versions and check the file sizes...i'll do that
18.06.22 #       <terinjokes> I would like to compile myself, but I'm at a lost
18.06.54 #       <terinjokes> I'm on gentoo don't know what I need
18.07.25 #       <foolsh> subversion and gcc are a start
18.07.45 #       <preglow> all you need is the rockboxdev.sh script
18.07.57 #       <preglow> and of course a source tree, yes
18.08.21 #       <terinjokes> preglow: i've used that script before, and it f*ed my computer up
18.08.35 #       <preglow> terinjokes: i don't see how that's possible
18.08.41 #       <preglow> it just downloads stuff and compiles them
18.08.45 #       <terinjokes> messed up GCC...
18.08.51 #       <preglow> then you set some paths wrongly
18.08.58 #       <preglow> it shouldn't mess up anything unless you told it to
18.09.17 #       <terinjokes> I didn't set any paths, i just ran the script :D
18.09.22 #       <preglow> well, there you go
18.09.23 #       <spug> preglow: i've never heard of that script :o can it be downloaded from somewhere without the wiki?
18.09.28 #       <preglow> but even doing that, it shouldn't break anything
18.09.39 #       <preglow> spug: well, you could just svn the source tree, it's in the tools/ directoy
18.09.51 #       <spug> okay, thanks
18.10.00 #       <terinjokes> what does it compile (i rather do it manually, if at all possible)
18.10.16 #       <preglow> terinjokes: it compiles binutils and gcc for each platform you want to compile rockbox for
18.10.29 #       <preglow> it's not hard to do it manually, but all the script does is really just what you'd do
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18.10.43 #       <preglow> you could just read the script and see what it does, i can't remember the manual steps myself anymore
18.11.18 #       * amiconn now has an asm optimised ata read loop for pp :)
18.11.21 #       <terinjokes> ok, i'll try the script again later
18.11.23 #       <linuxstb_> terinjokes: The CrossCompiler wiki page has the manual steps as well.
18.11.26 #       <preglow> amiconn: cool, got any bench numbers?
18.11.34 #       <preglow> linuxstb_: wiki's down
18.11.43 #       <thegeek> amiconn: ooh
18.11.43 #       <linuxstb_> google's cache isn't though...
18.11.49 #       <terinjokes> linuxstb_: if you can give me a full URI i'll pull the cache
18.11.54 #       * linuxstb_ was also writing an ATA optimised read...
18.12.01 #       <amiconn> Speedup is not as great as I would like, but still noticeable
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18.13.57 #       <amiconn> Aligned read is sped up by ~15%, unaligned by ~30%
18.14.10 #       <amiconn> A bit more at 30MHz, a bit less at 75MHz
18.14.15 #       <linuxstb_> terinjokes: Just google for Rockbox CrossCompiler
18.15.02 #       <preglow> amiconn: but that's not too bad at all
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18.19.04 #       <linuxstb_> amiconn: How are you aligning the memory accesses?
18.19.27 #       <amiconn> Shifting and orr'ing
18.20.22 #       <linuxstb_> No, I mean what are you aligning to?
18.20.30 #       <amiconn> 32 bit
18.23.41 #       <preglow> any doxygen wizards here?
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19.09.16 #       <Soap> this is slightly OT, but I am about to 7zip the colinux root FS.  Any suggestions on settings to tweak to maximize the compression ratio
19.09.17 #       <Soap> ?
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19.16.38 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19.24.52 #       * amiconn now also has asm optimised writing for pp :)
19.24.58 #       <thegeek> weee
19.25.47 #       <amiconn> Speedup: aligned +18%, unaligned +65%
19.26.21 #       <amiconn> Should be more on other pp targets; write speed is now obviously limited by the microdrive
19.30.23 #       <linuxstb_> I wish you had mentioned earlier you were working on it though...
19.31.05 #       <amiconn> I only started today
19.31.20 #       <amiconn> Those copy loops aren't really difficult
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19.36.26 #       * mattzz has probably bricked his Sansa....
19.37.55 #       <XavierGr> :O
19.38.00 #       <XavierGr> how?
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19.38.44 #       <mattzz> What I did:
19.38.44 #       <mattzz>  - Installed Rockbox (w/o dual boot)
19.38.44 #       <mattzz>  - played around a bit - everything fine
19.38.44 DBUG    Enqueued KICK mattzz
19.38.44 #       <mattzz>  - switched off, went to recovery mode
19.38.44 #       <mattzz>  - formatted the 16MB drive via windows XP notebook
19.38.44 ***     Alert Mode level 1
19.38.44 #       <mattzz>  - copied the following two files to the 16MB drive:
19.38.46 #       <mattzz>    - > http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/SKU_E-PP5022.mi4
19.38.48 #       <mattzz>    - > http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom
19.38.50 #       <mattzz>  - ejected drive from XP which led to a
19.38.52 #       <mattzz>  - system reset (said the recovery screen) aaaaand...
19.38.54 #       <mattzz>  - ... all went black :-/
19.39.08 #       <mattzz> I already contacted Badger to ask him how bad it was.....
19.39.53 #       <mattzz> Never flash your brand new toy after 01:30 a.m.
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19.46.02 #       <mattzz> any ideas?
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19.48.45 ***     Alert Mode OFF
19.49.55 #       <XavierGr> I really don't know anything about the Sansa port
19.50.09 #       <XavierGr> so the player doesn't respond to anything that you do?
19.50.24 #       <XavierGr> what was the mistake that you did?
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19.50.32 #       <mattzz> if I knew....
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19.50.53 #       <mattzz> I guess i flashed the wrong file to the wrong place.
19.50.56 #       <XavierGr> you should have to wait for Bagder, or Barrywardel (I think)
19.51.09 #       <mattzz> Yup, I already contacted Badger
19.51.21 #       <foolsh> sounds real bad really bad so it does not boot to the recovery mode?
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19.51.43 #       <skaterboard> hey guys
19.51.52 #       <mattzz> foolsh, nope. No recovery mode any more... :-(
19.51.58 #       <foolsh> ouch
19.52.00 #       <skaterboard> dont suppose anybody could help i think i have bricked my ipod
19.52.12 #       <foolsh> here we go again
19.52.22 #       <mattzz> ooops there goes another one (billy bragg)
19.52.25 #       <skaterboard> gets to the rockbox boot loader then dont get any further
19.52.36 #       <foolsh> not bricked
19.52.39 #       <preglow> skaterboard: then you haven't bricked it... case solved
19.52.51 #       <skaterboard> ok but in my eyes its broken
19.53.03 #       <skaterboard> i cant get it from where it is and have looked online
19.53.24 #       <skaterboard> i need to either get it working or get it back to disc mode to remove it
19.53.37 #       <preglow> well, details are needed
19.53.41 #       <preglow> what happens when it tries to boot?
19.54.35 #       <skaterboard> ok 5gen ipod video 80gb and it reboots gets to the bootloader version ipod version and then toshiba mk8010gah and then it locks up
19.54.49 #       <preglow> 80 gig, is it
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19.54.50 #       <preglow> then small wonder
19.54.52 #       <preglow> it's not supported
19.55.02 #       <preglow> 80 gig support is purely experimental and needs a patch
19.55.18 #       <skaterboard> ok so its bricked then
19.55.20 #       <preglow> i'm pretty sure this is stated somewhere in the wiki
19.55.25 #       <preglow> skaterboard: no, it's not bricked, just restore it
19.55.31 #       <skaterboard> how?
19.55.32 #       <preglow> no one has ever bricked an ipod
19.55.40 #       <preglow> skaterboard: by using the apple restore tool if you have to
19.55.53 #       <preglow> skaterboard: or by restoring the backup of the bootpartition i'm sure you've made
19.55.55 #       <skaterboard> you mean the restore option on itunes?
19.56.15 #       <preglow> skaterboard: probably, i've never used it
19.56.29 #       <skaterboard> but itunes no longer sees the ipod
19.56.45 #       <Febs> skaterboard: which installation instructions did you follow?
19.56.55 #       <skaterboard> the ones on the site in pdf format
19.57.12 #       <skaterboard> can i not get the bootloader to select the ipod firmware and the manually remove it
19.57.56 #       <Febs> OK, putting aside the big note in the first line of those instructions that say, "Rockbox does not run on the 80GB Ipod Video ..."
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19.58.09 #       <Febs> Try running this command from the same place you ran the ipodpatcher initially:
19.58.18 #       <Febs> ipodpatcher N -w bootpartition.bin
19.58.36 #       <Febs> (where N is the number you found when you ran ipodpatcher --scan)
19.58.47 #       <skaterboard> no it cant find it
19.59.04 #       <Febs> "It" can't find what?
20.00.08 #       <Febs> Let's step back.  What happens when you reset the ipod by pressing and holding Menu and Select simultaneously?
20.00.15 #       <foolsh> @mattzz if it is bricked can i have your case http://foolsh.home.insightbb.com/e200.jpg mine got ?scratched?
20.00.15 #       <skaterboard> that command cant find the ipod   says error opening disc
20.00.53 #       <skaterboard> when i reset it i get the apple logo for a few seconds then it goes back to the bootloader
20.01.08 #       <mattzz> foolsh, nice try :-)
20.01.38 #       <mattzz> foolsh, did you flash it via BBQ?
20.01.57 #       <Febs> Put the ipod in disk mode.
20.02.16 #       <Febs> Press and hold Menu and Select, and then as soon as it reboots, press and hold Select and Play.
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20.03.30 #       <skaterboard> its very terpremental even resetting it
20.03.39 #       <Hdaackda> hey what the hell happened. why would someone deface rockbox??
20.03.59 #       <skaterboard> ok i got it in disc mode
20.04.14 #       <GodEater> Hdaackda: because there are dicks in the world that take pride in it
20.04.20 #       <Febs> Are you connected to USB?
20.04.23 #       <skaterboard> yep
20.04.32 #       <Febs> try running the command I gave you earlier:
20.04.33 #       <n1s> Hdaackda: We'll make sure to ask them before sending them off to a work camp in siberia :-P
20.04.37 #       <Febs> ipodpatcher N -w bootpartition.bin
20.04.42 #       <Hdaackda> fuk(*G dicks man.
20.04.43 #       <skaterboard> already there
20.05.22 #       <GodEater> n1s: hahaha - the rockbox gulag has it's door open and waiting ;)
20.05.30 #       <Hdaackda> if they wanna deface something deface something government. nota community/social/open source project
20.06.17 #       <foolsh> @mattzz long story but it still works and i want redesign the case to be more like a gameboy you know for doom and rockboy the problem is the scroll wheel I think a 4-bit bidirection shift register  can replace it so i can have scroll up and down buttons i don't like the wheel
20.06.20 #       <Hdaackda> btw sorry for asking, any1 here with instructions for runnin linux on 5.5g (30gb) video? (already running rockbox n appleos
20.06.49 #       <skaterboard> ok long pause at the apple logo at the moment
20.07.22 #       <Hdaackda> ?
20.07.23 #       <skaterboard> and were in
20.07.53 #       <foolsh> not bricked cool beans :)
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20.08.45 #       <skaterboard> so the general concensus is to not run on a 5th gen 80gb
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20.09.02 #       <Febs> It's not that it's the "consensus."  It doesn't work.
20.09.06 #       <Febs> Yet.
20.09.21 #       <n1s> the general consensus is to follow th instructions
20.09.52 #       <Febs> Check back on the rockbox.org site from time to time, as there has been progress made and the 80GB will someday be supported.
20.11.01 #       <Hdaackda> about the 30gb. how do i install linux while keepin rockbox and apple
20.13.05 #       <foolsh> http://ipodlinux.org/Loader_2
20.13.19 #       <foolsh> google
20.13.20 #       <foolsh> is
20.13.22 #       <foolsh> your
20.13.24 #       <foolsh> friend
20.14.17 #       <foolsh> I don't know how I don't have an ipod I do use gnu/linux
20.14.28 #       <Hdaackda> umm #rockbox is friendlier
20.14.40 #       <foolsh> lol
20.14.50 #       <GodEater> #rockbox also doesn't provide support for ipodlinux
20.14.56 #       <GodEater> you're better off in #ipodlinux
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20.17.02 #       <w1ll14m> why the f*** is rockbox vandalised ????
20.17.11 #       <preglow> why would we know?
20.17.25 #       <w1ll14m> i don't have a clue ....
20.17.44 #       <goffa> what'd they do to it?
20.17.50 #       <goffa> i didn't see
20.18.41 #       <Hdaackda> w1ll14m: We'll make sure to ask them before sending them off to a work camp in siberia :-P
20.18.44 #       <w1ll14m> it's just the idea ... such a wonderfull project like this..... it also opensource etc....
20.18.57 #       <Hdaackda> - Quote by n1s
20.19.02 #       <w1ll14m> hdaackda: If you don't I will ;0p
20.19.04 #       <w1ll14m> ;)
20.19.18 #       <Hdaackda> ;)
20.19.25 #       <Hdaackda> some sad dicks..
20.19.47 #       <w1ll14m> probaply
20.20.50 Quit    Hdaackda ("Bye")
20.21.04 #       <w1ll14m> maybe it is something from apple or so.... would they be low enough to do this???
20.21.39 #       <w1ll14m> they just gave some ca$h to some junk or so to hack rockbox ???
20.21.54 #       <GodEater> *extremely* unlikey
20.22.09 #       <w1ll14m> i thought so....
20.22.42 #       <n1s> if apple wanted to shut down rockbox, they would send lawyers, not hackers
20.22.55 #       <w1ll14m> n1s: that's true .....
20.23.35 #       <GodEater> since if the hack was ever traced back to them - they'd be in a whole lot of trouble
20.23.44 #       <GodEater> it would be a PR and legal nightmare for them
20.23.55 #       <GodEater> I doubt they care at all about rockbox
20.24.44 #       <w1ll14m> godeater: that sounds true..... but what was exactly hacked ?
20.24.53 #       <GodEater> no idea - I didn't see it
20.25.19 #       <GodEater> It's far more likely it was some bored script kiddie somewhere looking for peer validation
20.25.31 #       <GodEater> who now thinks he's "l33t"
20.25.37 #       <w1ll14m> peer validation ?
20.25.46 #       <GodEater> respect from his friends
20.25.51 #       <w1ll14m> GodEater: just a sad person instead of 1337
20.26.01 #       <GodEater> I did say "thinks"
20.26.04 #       <GodEater> I didn't say it was true
20.26.11 #       <w1ll14m> hehehe true ;)
20.26.58 #       <kirkunit> but why target RockBox? idiots
20.26.59 #       <w1ll14m> they realy have to set up a work camp for noobz like this..... and let them code for opensource ;) that should learn them ....
20.27.23 #       <GodEater> well I also doubt that whoever did it actually wrote the code to do it themselves
20.27.39 Join    PLsCold [0] (n=ezqdq@dyn-83-157-100-30.ppp.tiscali.fr)
20.27.45 #       <PLsCold> Hello
20.28.12 #       <w1ll14m> GodEater: indeed a small chance....
20.28.22 #       <kirkunit> anyone use RockBox on an iAudio X5?
20.28.38 Quit    amiconn (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC")
20.28.50 #       <PLsCold> how can i put personnal backgrounp for Rockbox menu on a sansaE200 ?
20.29.07 #       <DataGhost> GodEater: http://de.dataghost.com/ipl/Loader2-3.avi
20.29.42 #       <PLsCold> background*
20.29.50 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20.29.50 #       * GodEater downloads...
20.31.06 #       <kirkunit> is it possible to invert menu and filelist displays? ie. white text on a black background.
20.31.15 #       <n1s> PLsCold: make a 220x176x25 bmp and put it in ./rockbox/backdrops, then go to that folder in rockbox and bring up the context menu on the file and select "set as backdrop" (or whatever it's called)
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20.31.24 #       * w1ll14m is pissed off about the news he just heard about rockbox and immediatly got him self a glass of beer
20.31.30 Join    jaebird [0] (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net)
20.31.52 #       <n1s> kirkunit: you can set whatever foreground and backgound colors you like
20.32.14 #       <PLsCold> thanks i'm going to try it
20.33.22 #       <n1s> PLsCold: oh and it's in the manual http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansae200/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1920009.1.4 try looking there next time you wonder something :-)
20.33.53 #       <PLsCold> ok :) i was looking in forum :D
20.35.16 #       * GodEater high fives DataGhost and awards him iPL's "Hero of the Month" medal
20.35.22 #       <DataGhost> :P
20.35.23 #       <GodEater> nice work!
20.35.40 #       <DataGhost> tonight I'll make it compatible with older/other iPods again :P
20.35.41 #       <GodEater> I assume you got your odd/even sector routines working then :)
20.35.44 #       <DataGhost> yes
20.35.49 #       <DataGhost> actually, it was quite stupid
20.35.50 #       <GodEater> you da man
20.35.53 #       <GodEater> yes ?
20.35.58 #       <DataGhost> I wasn't that deep into the code etc
20.36.04 #       <DataGhost> haven't coded a lot in C
20.36.15 #       <DataGhost> and I especially looked over all differences beween uint8 and uint16
20.36.24 #       <GodEater> ah
20.36.26 #       <DataGhost> so basically I was trying to read the odd sector after the buffer
20.36.32 #       <DataGhost> I did +512, should have done +256 :P
20.36.38 #       <GodEater> hehe
20.36.56 #       <GodEater> well done for cracking that one
20.37.03 #       <GodEater> Tempel walks in your shadow now :)
20.37.04 #       <DataGhost> yeah, thanks :)
20.37.07 #       <DataGhost> hehe
20.37.16 Quit    relaxed ("mplayer -cache 512 -playlist http://somafm.com/secretagent.pls")
20.37.37 #       <DataGhost> Actually, I think I'm just going to need to read up on pointers, some memory allocations and then it'll all be a lot easier :)
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20.37.52 #       <GodEater> hehehe
20.37.59 #       * GodEater goes for celebratory food
20.38.08 #       <DataGhost> :)
20.38.15 #       <DataGhost> the loader can also detect and boot rockbox
20.38.22 Quit    Juddy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20.38.22 #       <DataGhost> but I still have the unpatched version so it's not of much use
20.38.35 #       <bagawk> wait wait, that talk was what i thought it was right?
20.38.55 #       <DataGhost> hm?
20.39.08 #       <DataGhost> I can't read minds so I'm not 100% sure
20.39.20 #       <bagawk> you can read from the iPod 80gb disk?
20.39.23 #       <DataGhost> yes
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20.39.36 Quit    w1ll14m (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20.39.41 #       * bagawk does a little happy dance
20.39.53 #       <DataGhost> :)
20.40.03 Quit    Kitt0s (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20.40.07 #       <DataGhost> the bootloader can also read ext3 and fat32 just fine
20.40.16 #       <DataGhost> iPL still can't read fat32, so that's going to need some fixing
20.40.16 #       <bluebrother> what happend? 5.5G up and running?
20.40.30 #       <DataGhost> basically, yes
20.40.38 #       <bluebrother> nice :)
20.40.51 #       <DataGhost> I don't know if iPL can read HFS+ partitions off the 80GB... if it can then work is done for the 80GB macpods
20.40.59 #       <GodEater> the iPL kernel still doesn't read the fat32 yet though right ?
20.41.02 #       <DataGhost> nope
20.41.17 #       <DataGhost> that's the next issue, which is going to be a *little* bit more complex :)
20.41.23 #       <GodEater> yeah =/
20.41.30 #       <GodEater> that fat32 code looks like a nightmare to me
20.41.48 #       <GodEater> heh - which is basically the problem LinusN faces with the rockbox kernel
20.42.03 Nick    mattzz is now known as mattzz_away (n=mattzz@e177174121.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20.42.03 DBUG    Enqueued KICK mattzz_away
20.42.04 #       <DataGhost> Well, the short time I've been looking through it, I couldn't really find any actual fat32 read-a-file code
20.42.18 #       <GodEater> that's also an uss
20.42.21 #       <GodEater> *issue
20.42.22 #       <DataGhost> anyway, the loader understands it, which is nice
20.42.31 #       <GodEater> it's tough finding your wya through the linux kernel
20.42.33 #       <GodEater> it's a large beast
20.42.36 #       <DataGhost> I don't have to use ipodpatcher all the time :)
20.42.51 #       <GodEater> hehe
20.42.57 Quit    XavierGr ()
20.43.37 #       <GodEater> that's very useful
20.43.59 #       <DataGhost> and basically I'll just have to revert the entire SECTOR_SIZE I set, especially if it needs to work on older iPods
20.44.10 #       <DataGhost> I've come up with ways of detecting which method needs to be used, though
20.44.13 #       <GodEater> yeah
20.44.18 #       <DataGhost> read sector 1 (odd) and see if it errors :P
20.44.28 #       <GodEater> hehehe - simple but effective
20.44.33 Join    Kitt0s [0] (i=Kaa@84.94.77.227.cable.012.net.il)
20.44.39 #       <GodEater> heck - even read one sector
20.44.47 #       <GodEater> we know it b0rks on that too
20.46.05 #       <DataGhost> and with the loader I finally found a use for static variables :)
20.46.10 #       <DataGhost> and useful they will be
20.46.39 Join    relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
20.47.08 #       <GodEater> you've also got the docs to write about this too of course
20.47.17 #       <DataGhost> heh
20.47.22 #       <GodEater> if you don't want to be pestered into an early grave in #iplodlinux
20.47.25 #       <GodEater> :)
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20.50.14 #       <PLsCold> n1s: Sorry to ask you again :) but where i find this option "set as backdrop" ??
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20.52.20 Part    skaterboard
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20.55.35 #       <khalsa> Hello, was just wondering how to increase the playlist limit (above whats in the options) for ipod Nano
20.55.45 #       <khalsa> (above 22k)
20.57.05 Join    linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
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20.57.59 #       <GodEater> linuxstb: you seen that DataGhost has fixed Loader2 on the 80GB ?
20.58.25 #       <DataGhost> I think he did :)
20.58.40 #       <PLsCold> test
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21.00.24 Quit    robin_0800 (Client Quit)
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21.02.14 #       <robin0800_> help
21.02.18 #       <PLsCold> ?
21.03.03 #       <robin0800_> how to install COP patch on svn daily build
21.03.25 #       <PLsCold> nice question
21.04.24 #       <GodEater> robin0800 - you can't install a patch on a build
21.04.33 #       <GodEater> you have to patch the *source* and build it yourself
21.04.46 Quit    Manticore-2 (Remote closed the connection)
21.04.55 #       <robin0800_> I Know Compile then
21.05.15 #       <GodEater> well do you know how to compile your own
21.05.16 #       <GodEater> ?
21.05.24 #       <robin0800_> yes
21.05.36 Join    Ghoulunat [0] (n=woot@74-139-194-213.dhcp.insightbb.com)
21.05.39 Join    echo [0] (n=chatzill@ip68-102-230-3.ks.ok.cox.net)
21.05.40 #       <robin0800_> can do normal patches
21.05.55 #       <GodEater> how is the COP patch abnormal ?
21.07.03 #       <robin0800_> Tracker page Dosen't have patches but .bin and some diff's
21.07.03 Join    Zagor [0] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21.07.32 Quit    echo (Client Quit)
21.07.41 #       <GodEater> a diff *is* a patch
21.08.00 Join    echo1001 [0] (n=chatzill@ip68-102-230-3.ks.ok.cox.net)
21.08.08 #       <robin0800_> what do you do with the bin
21.08.10 #       <Zagor> Good news: We weren't hacked. It was a runaway cronjob that did the damage.
21.08.21 Mode    "#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21.08.21 #       <linuxstb_> You hacked yourself?
21.08.27 #       <thegeek> hehehe
21.08.33 #       <Zagor> linuxstb_: yeah, something like that
21.08.43 #       <GodEater> hahahaha
21.08.45 #       <linuxstb_> Is the damage repairable?
21.08.56 Topic   "www server wiped. restoe from backup pending." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21.08.57 Join    Sikkan [0] (i=Monchhic@84.243.53.166)
21.09.10 #       <Zagor> linuxstb_: yes. the backups should be in good shape.
21.09.12 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21.09.12 #       * GodEater wonders what the cronjob was *supposed* to do
21.09.22 #       <khalsa> yeah for reals
21.09.57 #       <preglow> Zagor: what the hell kind of a cronjob was that? the yearly rm -rf / ?
21.09.59 Join    D0ug [0] (n=Doug@bas2-kingston08-1177655781.dsl.bell.ca)
21.10.03 #       <D0ug> What freak did this?
21.10.22 #       <idnar> did what?
21.10.25 #       <Zagor> GodEater: spot the bug: (cd rockbox_html/cvs-bak; find . -ctime +7 -exec rm {} ;)
21.10.36 #       <D0ug> Vandalize the site?
21.10.44 #       <preglow> D0ug: the code snippet above did
21.10.51 #       <GodEater> hehehe - oops ;)
21.10.53 #       <Zagor> D0ug: false alarm, it was not a hack this time
21.10.56 #       <preglow> Zagor: i'm afraid i don't speak find
21.10.59 #       <D0ug> really?
21.11.00 #       <robin0800_> Do you need the .bin file
21.11.08 #       <D0ug> Did it crash or something?
21.11.10 #       <linuxstb_> robin0800_: You just need this patch (linked from the tracker page) - http://www.lostlogicx.com/transfer/rockbox/kernel_on_cop_6.diff
21.12.06 #       <GodEater> that was supposed to remove files older than 7 days (he guesses)
21.12.15 #       <GodEater> I need to remind myself what ctime is for
21.12.21 #       <D0ug> kk, sorry I realize you just answered that qn... I am feeling a bit dense today
21.13.00 #       <Zagor> GodEater: well, it did. the problem is the ; character. it doesn't abort when the previous command fails. and the cd failed because the cvs-bak directory no longer exists...
21.13.00 #       <D0ug> Any irreperable damage?
21.13.10 #       <GodEater> ah yes
21.13.13 #       <preglow> Zagor: ahhaha
21.13.14 #       <GodEater> it should have been &&
21.13.16 #       <preglow> && is your friend
21.13.18 #       <Zagor> indeed
21.13.32 #       <GodEater> heh
21.13.40 #       * GodEater hasn't used ";" in a script for years
21.13.49 Quit    fasmaie ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
21.14.39 #       <GodEater> however, I didn't realise the cvs-bak directory didn't exist - not having access to the server. I should have guessed though really following the svn change
21.14.53 #       <Zagor> D0ug: hopefully there is very little data lost. if I recall correctly, the backup ran just a few hours before the wipeout.
21.15.11 #       <D0ug> Good!
21.15.14 #       <D0ug> Is there any plans on forming a small HTML viewer for Rockbox?
21.15.26 Join    Anendram [0] (n=Anendram@ppp-70-130-33-248.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net)
21.15.30 #       <idnar> port firefox to rockbox ;)
21.15.34 #       <D0ug> Just so you can view a web page rather than just the code
21.15.35 #       <D0ug> lol
21.15.59 #       <GodEater> D0ug: absolutely not - HTML on the web is a nightmare to parse
21.16.13 #       <GodEater> far to complex a job for the limited resources available on a rockbox target
21.16.18 #       <Zagor> D0ug: get in line: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/2909
21.16.28 #       <Zagor> :)
21.16.38 #       <PLsCold> where can i get Tetris for rockbox ? :p
21.16.38 #       <D0ug> kk
21.16.39 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21.16.54 Topic   "www server wiped. restore from backup pending." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21.16.54 #       <D0ug> Try a gameboy game
21.16.55 #       <khalsa> whynot install SVN:Web ?
21.16.58 #       <linuxstb_> You can't get Tetris (TM), but you can get Rockblox.
21.17.00 #       * GodEater is surprised that's not been closed with the "hahahahaha. No." reason.
21.17.14 #       <PLsCold> oki
21.17.18 #       <Zagor> khalsa: instead of viewvc?
21.17.20 #       <D0ug> cool, Zagor
21.17.34 #       <PLsCold> so basic game from Gameboy work for Roxkbox ? without modification Oo ?
21.17.41 #       <khalsa> or viewvc, same thing at the end of the day
21.17.50 #       <Zagor> khalsa: see svn.rockbox.org
21.17.52 #       <Anendram> Speaking of gameboy games, is Rockboy ever going to get to the iRiver H10?
21.17.59 #       <D0ug> Well, I'm out of here, thank you though for the info
21.18.14 #       <khalsa> Zagor, ah. I was just pointing out for D0ug
21.18.14 #       <D0ug> lol, Rockboy is on the Sansa e200 already :)
21.18.22 #       <PLsCold> :]
21.18.23 Quit    BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
21.18.24 #       <Zagor> khalsa: aha
21.18.26 #       <GodEater> Anendram: sure. as soon as someone starts working on it
21.18.37 Quit    D0ug ("Leaving")
21.18.40 #       <PLsCold> D0ug rockboy or box ?
21.18.58 #       <khalsa> Zagor, I thought he meant for the SVN for some reason 0.o
21.19.26 #       <Anendram> Rockboy.  I have Rockbox on mine already.  Wish I could help with it.  But I know nothing about programming/coding/whatever
21.19.40 Quit    Anendram (Client Quit)
21.20.08 #       <GodEater> and no desire to learn either it seems
21.20.12 #       <DataGhost> by the way GodEater, can you tell me where you got that loader2 you were talking about? (with slightly different code iirc)
21.20.16 #       <DataGhost> so I can diff it with the svn one
21.20.21 Quit    PaulJam (".")
21.20.26 #       <DataGhost> and see if I need to adjust anything
21.20.33 #       <GodEater> tempel's site
21.20.41 #       <GodEater> you'd have to ask DerPapst for the link
21.20.46 #       <DataGhost> ok
21.20.47 #       <GodEater> I don't recall it
21.21.00 #       <GodEater> though I think it's linked from the 5.5G post Tempel made on the iPL wiki
21.21.11 #       <DataGhost> hm ok I'll have a look in a bit
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21.22.04 #       <GodEater> http://ipod.tempel.org/loader2/loader2.5d5.zip
21.22.07 #       <GodEater> there
21.22.08 #       <GodEater> that was it
21.22.31 #       <GodEater> heh - think you need to update this page too - > http://www.ipodlinux.org/5.5G_Installation
21.22.38 #       <GodEater> with your avi perhaps
21.22.58 Quit    Alonea ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
21.23.06 #       <PLsCold> linuxstb_: re
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21.23.25 #       <PLsCold> i found rockblox.c that it ?
21.24.06 #       <GodEater> DataGhost: are you submitting your Loader2 to the iPL svn anytime soon ?
21.24.29 #       <linuxstb_> PLsCold: Yes.  It's included in every build.
21.24.40 #       <PLsCold> oki
21.24.41 #       <DataGhost> well maybe I can fix the code today and test it on my 20GB 4G
21.24.55 #       <DataGhost> and I'm not sure how that SVN submitting works etc
21.25.03 #       <DataGhost> and whether or not it needs more testing on other iPods before submitting
21.25.03 #       <DataGhost> :)
21.25.24 #       <DataGhost> and reviewing, probably
21.25.31 #       <robin0800_> thanks linuxstb for the link
21.25.40 #       <GodEater> probably all of the above
21.25.53 #       <GodEater> are there any other iPL devs who're active to *do* any reviewing ?
21.26.02 #       <GodEater> I've not heard a peep out of them for ages
21.26.23 #       <DataGhost> well if there aren't any devs around I guess another person who knows how to code could review it :)
21.26.32 #       <GodEater> I'm sure you could find victi^H^H^H^Holunteers aplenty to test it in the rockbox forums though
21.26.36 #       <DataGhost> hehe
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21.26.46 #       <DataGhost> oh yes I could have loads of people to TEST
21.26.57 #       <DataGhost> the problem is, they all have 80GB iPods, so there's nothing new there :)
21.27.03 #       <GodEater> true
21.27.14 #       <DataGhost> oh by the way, I can restore my iPod as macpod from OSX, right?
21.27.23 #       <GodEater> I would imagine so
21.27.26 #       <DataGhost> hm hm
21.27.34 #       * DataGhost smashes his laptop a couple of times and fires up vmware
21.27.36 #       <GodEater> I don't own anything with OSX on it though
21.27.42 Part    echo1001
21.27.45 #       <DataGhost> i have a core duo laptop :)
21.27.47 #       * GodEater looks in linuxstb's direction
21.27.56 #       <GodEater> woooo - aren't you lucky then ? :)
21.28.00 #       <DataGhost> hehe
21.28.04 #       <DataGhost> sponsored by the university :P
21.28.07 #       <DataGhost> well, half
21.28.32 #       <DataGhost> nice. it's booting QNX
21.28.37 #       <GodEater> hahaha
21.28.38 #       <DataGhost> now where did I leave that osx iso
21.28.42 #       <GodEater> you have QNX on it too ?!?!?!
21.28.45 #       <DataGhost> in vmware
21.28.45 #       <GodEater> nutter
21.28.51 #       <idnar> not core 2 duo?
21.28.51 #       <DataGhost> I threw off osx.. heh
21.28.56 #       <DataGhost> no, just core duo
21.29.08 #       <DataGhost> I'm getting another 160GB disk in a couple of days, by the way
21.29.16 #       <DataGhost> the 100GB I have now is.. um.... well, full
21.29.18 #       <GodEater> for ?
21.29.21 #       <GodEater> ah
21.29.24 #       <DataGhost> for my laptop :P
21.29.42 #       <DataGhost> and 2x500 for my workstation because I've got a terabyte in here.. which is also full
21.29.56 #       <GodEater> too much porn obviously ;)
21.29.58 #       <linuxstb_> Install zagor's cronjob...
21.30.00 #       <Hotfusion> I'd like to get hitadhi's new 1 TB HDD
21.30.02 #       <Hotfusion> for $399
21.30.03 #       <DataGhost> haha linuxstb
21.30.06 #       <GodEater> linuxstb hahahaha
21.30.07 #       <Hotfusion> hitachi
21.30.33 #       <DataGhost> Hotfusion I'd get 2x500... http://dataghost.com/hdprijs/
21.30.34 #       <DataGhost> :)
21.31.13 #       <DataGhost> for ~280 euros.. instead of 399
21.31.33 #       <DataGhost> I could even buy 3x500 then, heh
21.33.12 #       <thegeek> 1tb of data on one hd is scary
21.33.16 #       <thegeek> what if it fails?
21.33.42 #       <DataGhost> I think you said the exact same thing a couple of years ago, about a 1GB harddrive :)
21.33.43 #       <GodEater> you curse very loudly indeed ?
21.33.54 #       <n1s> you go and get the backup
21.34.00 #       <DataGhost> and well.. what if it fails, then we have raid5 or a backup :P
21.34.05 #       <thegeek> humhum
21.35.59 #       <Hotfusion> im still looking for that battery I can replace in my mp3 player if it goes out someday
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21.41.52 #       <PLsCold> hi again, how to put a windows font for rockblox ?
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21.45.31 Nick    scoles_ is now known as scubacoles (n=scoles@eth4699.sa.adsl.internode.on.net)
21.46.25 #       <Slasheri> http://loliserv.org/imageboard/images/4311a94ac07c207ac7bb2196405517dd.jpg
21.46.57 #       <n1s> :-D
21.47.19 #       <PLsCold> :x
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21.49.33 Quit    Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
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21.51.12 #       <SethXxX> re all
21.51.23 #       <SethXxX> hows the weekend going?
21.51.58 #       <SethXxX> sorry to see that the webserver is down, i hope you folks fix it... disaster recovery is always a pain in theass
21.53.42 #       <SethXxX> anyhow, i have a question for those with an ipod... is the cradle functionality retained, with rockbox? ie if i place my ipod on one of those "multimedia cradles" with speakers, will i be able to use the buttons on the cradle? and will the audio output work?
21.55.13 #       <Llorean> No, and Yes.
21.55.26 #       <Llorean> Buttons won't work because those require communications.
21.55.36 #       <Llorean> But the audio out is usually by way of the line out, which is functionaly
21.55.42 #       <Llorean> Hm, "functional"
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21.57.51 #       <GodEater> I think I'm going to have to stop answering posts in the Apple install forum
21.58.57 #       <SethXxX> Llorean: hm.
21.58.59 #       <n1s> are they getting upset? ;-) I don't dare to go in there ...
21.59.22 #       <SethXxX> so i'm assuming that the audio routing is hardware, and the buttons are software and there is no driver for them, correct?
22.00.12 #       <GodEater> it just seems to have the lowest average intelligence per post of any of the other fourms
22.00.27 #       <GodEater> you go in there and the IQ level plummets like a thermometer in a blizzard
22.00.37 #       <DataGhost> haha GodEater
22.00.48 #       <SethXxX> GodEater: try out the microsoft install forums.
22.00.56 #       <SethXxX> or the linux ones, even better.
22.01.02 #       <DataGhost> I just helped someone on IRC with the iPL installer... he couldn't get it to work because he didn't read the wiki
22.01.07 #       <GodEater> I meant on the rockbox site SethXxX
22.01.13 #       <DataGhost> after he did he managed to crash it
22.01.18 #       <SethXxX> ah, sorry :)
22.01.19 #       <DataGhost> and now he gave up
22.01.20 #       <DataGhost> :P
22.02.13 #       <GodEater> I'd have so much more patience with them if they could demonstrate that they at least *tried* to follow the manual. But they all just want spoon feeding.
22.03.01 #       <Llorean> GodEater: Honestly what drives me nuts is that as soon as you answer one question, they stop thinking at all.
22.03.22 #       <Llorean> They'll get to a point, need help, and then once you give them help, instead of going back to reading, they want step by step instructions.
22.03.29 #       <SethXxX> speaking of manual
22.03.56 #       <GodEater> Llorean: yep - I'm just going to give up now before I roast someone so bad they end up glowing in the dark.
22.04.01 #       <SethXxX> do i need to clean format my ipod as a fat volume when i unzip the rockbox stuff on there?
22.04.20 #       <n1s> "But the manual is so BIG!!" "But the manual doesn't cover this" "But the manual doesn't have enough examples!" :-P
22.04.39 #       <Llorean> SethXxX: Is your iPod in possession of a primary Fat32 partition?
22.04.47 #       <SethXxX> its a winpod, so yes
22.04.56 #       <Llorean> Then you don't need to do anything special for it.
22.04.57 #       <GodEater> n1s: I don't believe I've heard anyone say the manual doesn't cover something. They complain it's too hard to understand - but never suggest improvements.
22.04.59 #       <Llorean> Just follow the instructions.
22.05.05 Quit    PLsCold ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
22.05.09 #       <SethXxX> just askin :)
22.05.11 #       <Llorean> GodEater: Every now and then the manual doesn't cover something.
22.05.22 #       <GodEater> I must have missed those then ;)
22.05.30 #       <Llorean> GodEater: You'll hear it when someone says "Please read the manual" and someone else is just overjoyed to call the person on the fact that the manual doesn't actually have it.
22.05.38 #       <GodEater> hahahaha
22.05.53 #       <n1s> GodEater: aah, I might have thought of one of the times they just don't care to search and claim it's not in
22.05.57 #       * GodEater 's hide appears intact from those.
22.06.30 #       <Febs> Someone made a suggestion for the manual the other day, actually.
22.06.38 #       <Febs> "User more screen shots."
22.06.38 #       <GodEater> I would imagine in *most* of those cases we have the good grace to admit we screwed up.
22.06.51 #       * n1s often gives them direct links, caus it's fater then telling them how to find what thyr'e looking for
22.07.02 #       <Febs> I am still trying to figure how screen shots of DOS commands is useful.
22.07.26 #       <n1s> Febs: good question
22.07.41 #       <Llorean> GodEater: Usually yes, there's a "Sorry, it's in the manual now" in response to "But it's not there!"
22.07.44 #       <GodEater> Febs: you'd need to mspaint them with little circles round the relevant bits. Like "This is the number ipodpatcher returns when you do --scan. In case you can't work it out on your own"
22.08.26 #       <GodEater> I really hope rbutil sends these posters into decline
22.08.41 #       <Zagor> screenshots also makes people type "C:\>" into their command prompts
22.08.49 #       <GodEater> sadly very true
22.09.10 #       <Llorean> All those people who type C:\Rockbox\ipodpatcher --scan rather than CDing.
22.09.18 #       <SethXxX> why dont you put a "JUST RTFM!" header on each page of the manual pdf?
22.09.26 #       * GodEater wonders if we could get away with distributing a .reg file that unsets PROMPT
22.09.36 #       <DataGhost> GodEater I think they want you to write some sort of installer that installs iPL/rockbox automatically on their iPod/mp3player whenever they think about doing that
22.09.36 #       <Llorean> SethXxX: Because they wouldn't see that until they're already reading the manual?
22.09.51 #       <GodEater> DataGhost: someone's working on that
22.09.52 #       <SethXxX> hm. the chicken -egg paradox
22.09.55 #       <GodEater> it's just not finished yet
22.09.56 #       <DataGhost> hehe
22.10.21 #       <GodEater> I think the dev is busy sursing MS on their code for autodetecting devices
22.10.25 #       <GodEater> *cursing*
22.10.32 #       <GodEater> last time I saw her in here anyway
22.10.34 #       <DataGhost> probably the hardest part will be to actually make clear what the user still needs to do
22.10.39 #       <GodEater> she may have got beyond that
22.10.56 #       <DataGhost> 'help, my iPod scren is showing "please attach this iPod to a computer with internet access to install iPL"!!1 what do I need to do! help!'
22.11.07 #       <GodEater> well I'm hoping it'll be as simple as "plug in your device" and "click the "install rockbox" button
22.11.39 #       <DataGhost> well I actually meant an installer which doesn't involve surfing to any site, reading any manual at all, etc. :P
22.11.49 #       <GodEater> hehe
22.12.00 #       <GodEater> are you hoping it'll magically appear on their harddrive too ?
22.12.13 #       <DataGhost> that would be great
22.12.18 #       <GodEater> hehehe
22.12.24 #       <DataGhost> but really, an 'install rockbox' button is too hard already
22.12.35 #       <DataGhost> or it's just my presence
22.12.51 #       <GodEater> you may be right actually
22.12.52 #       <DataGhost> whenever I am standing near someone who is not a computer guru
22.13.05 #       <DataGhost> they even ask me what they should do next when they get a dialog with 1 button 'OK'
22.13.13 #       <GodEater> it *should* be as simple as run the installer, and plugin your device.
22.13.21 #       <GodEater> or vice versa
22.14.28 #       <GodEater> maybe it should get turned into an agent as well
22.14.33 #       <GodEater> that runs permanently on the host PC
22.14.36 #       <DataGhost> anyway, my opinion is still that when you cannot read 1 wiki page, describing how to use an automated installer and _EVERY_ error it *may* give... you don't deserve to have an alternate firmware
22.14.43 Part    Llorean
22.14.53 #       <GodEater> and automatically upgrades rockbox whenever there is both an internet connection and the device is plugged in
22.14.59 #       <DataGhost> hehe
22.15.20 #       <DataGhost> people will delete that and they will complain
22.15.29 #       <DataGhost> someone asked for my help once, while he was 'cleaning up' his pc
22.15.35 #       <DataGhost> 'hey, can I delete this?'
22.15.44 #       <DataGhost> I didn't know what it was either, so I decided to look it up
22.15.49 #       <DataGhost> no internet connection
22.15.50 #       <GodEater> we install it into winnt\system32
22.15.55 #       <GodEater> run it as a service
22.15.55 #       <DataGhost> I did ipconfig... no interfaces
22.16.02 #       <DataGhost> 'what did you say you deleted?'
22.16.09 #       * GodEater waits for the punchline
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22.16.22 #       <DataGhost> well, the motherboard drivers were gone for some reason
22.16.33 #       <GodEater> oh good god
22.16.43 #       <DataGhost> onboard network, sound.. etc
22.16.58 #       <GodEater> it's getting the stage where windows shouldn't be installed into an easily accessible partition any more
22.17.08 #       <DataGhost> hehe
22.17.10 #       <GodEater> so the user can't even see it to delete it
22.17.13 #       <DataGhost> well I think it just had an uninstaller :(
22.17.25 #       <DataGhost> 'whats "via 4-in-1"??? ah well..' [delete]
22.17.33 #       <DataGhost> or whatever it was
22.18.28 #       * GodEater compares it to someone trying to "clear space" under the bonnet of a car. "These shiny things don't look like they need to be there." *yank*.   Mechanic later "where the hell are the spark plugs?
22.18.47 #       <DataGhost> :D
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22.19.16 #       <DataGhost> you know, maybe that's even why cars nowadays have some protective shield over the engine
22.19.25 #       <DataGhost> so you can only refill the necessary fluids
22.19.49 #       <GodEater> it's what I just don't understand. I know damn well not to fiddle with my cars engine. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing there. Yet people who know they know stuff all about computers / electronics seem to insist on fiddling with the stuff they know nothing about.
22.20.05 #       <GodEater> yeah - but windows has that "protective cover" now
22.20.19 #       <DataGhost> meh.. not really imo
22.20.26 #       <DataGhost> on XP it's a lousy 1-click-begone solution
22.20.32 #       <GodEater> when you try and browse c:\ , or c:\windows it tells you "These are system files - are you SURE you want to see them
22.20.36 #       <Febs> When I first started dating my wife, her car was acting up, so I said, "when was the last time you had the oil changed?"
22.20.40 #       <DataGhost> and in vista it's probably the same, when you have the administrator password
22.20.42 #       <Febs> Her response was, "what's an oil change."
22.20.46 #       * Soap wanders into #TechSupportVent
22.20.50 #       <DataGhost> lol Febs
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22.21.04 #       <SethXxX> hm, i just plugged the rockbox ipod to the usb key, and it rebooted and went into disk mode... is this normal?
22.21.14 #       <GodEater> DataGhost but that's the same as the engine cover in a car. once it's off - it's off!
22.21.18 #       <DataGhost> it's always funny to throw away an engine with the pistons jammed
22.21.18 #       <SethXxX> s/key/pluug
22.21.22 #       <Febs> We have to remember that some of our users have about that level of sophistication with computers.
22.21.27 #       <DataGhost> yeah ok GodEater
22.21.31 #       <GodEater> SethXxX - yes it is
22.21.34 #       <SethXxX> k
22.21.48 #       <GodEater> if you want it to just charge, hold down menu while you plug it in.
22.22.16 #       <SethXxX> thx
22.22.33 #       <GodEater> Febs: that's the level of sophistication I have with my car. It's why I pay a mechanic to look after it for me - and why I don't open the bonnet ever.
22.23.26 #       <DataGhost> Well, with cars I know my way around a bit.. but I don't touch stuff I know nothing about, at least not before I rtfm
22.24.48 #       <GodEater> I know nothing at all, and that's the way I like it. If I want a my car to do "something different" from what it was designed, I'm sure as hell not going to try and turn it into a off-roader on my own. I'll just buy another car.
22.25.34 #       <DataGhost> I did notice people getting more cautious, though
22.25.41 #       <DataGhost> since I started to charge them per hour
22.25.50 #       <GodEater> hehe
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22.29.21 #       <DataGhost> anyway.. I'm going to get some more food just before coding time starts :)
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22.32.18 #       * GodEater bids on an F40 gigabeat
22.32.57 Quit    GodEater ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
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22.36.46 #       <SethXxX> silly question
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22.36.58 #       <SethXxX> can i start the original apple firmware using rolo ?
22.37.41 Quit    Soul-Slayer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.38.47 #       <dionoea> SethXxX: i don't think so
22.39.02 #       <SethXxX> is there any way to set up dual boot?
22.41.19 #       <dionoea> you have to press a special key during boot
22.41.24 #       <dionoea> i don't remember which one it is
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22.42.05 #       <SethXxX> menu play i guess
22.42.50 #       <SethXxX> even not
22.43.16 #       <SethXxX> well anyhow, the rockbox firmware has replaced the original firmware, so i dont see a way how pressing a button can get overwritten data back
22.44.06 #       <DataGhost> with the iPodLinux loader you can have dualboot with rockbox :o
22.44.11 #       <DataGhost> I'm guessing 'rolo' can do the same?
22.44.17 #       <DataGhost> (never used it, sorry)
22.44.22 #       <SethXxX> thats what i was asking before :)
22.44.25 #       <DataGhost> it's not overwritten but just realigned
22.44.31 #       <SethXxX> hm
22.44.41 #       <DataGhost> if I'm right :P
22.44.50 #       <SethXxX> ill need to stfu and dig into the technicalities then
22.44.51 #       <SethXxX> ;)
22.44.54 #       <DataGhost> wait, lol.
22.45.02 #       <DataGhost> rockbox is loaded from a file on your music partition
22.45.09 #       <DataGhost> the 'overwritten' stuff is just a bootloader
22.45.14 #       <DataGhost> hardly your entire firmware
22.45.23 #       <SethXxX> ok
22.45.36 #       <DataGhost> it'll probably be in the manual
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22.45.38 #       <SethXxX> i just came from ipodlinux
22.45.44 #       <SethXxX> and i had a crash every time
22.45.52 #       <DataGhost> that boots from another partition aswell :P
22.45.55 #       <SethXxX> and 4 hours of sleep
22.46.05 #       <SethXxX> so i was rather pissed off at it
22.46.06 #       <SethXxX> ;)
22.46.12 #       <DataGhost> heh
22.46.20 #       <SethXxX> s/was/am
22.46.32 #       <DataGhost> well, what I do know for sure is that the new loader2 will boot appleos, linux and rockbox just fine, with a nice menu at boottime
22.46.55 #       <DataGhost> and I'm going to continue working on it right now
22.48.01 #       <SethXxX> good boy :)
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22.48.52 #       <Soap> DataGhost: the rockbox loader will boot all those too.
22.49.08 #       <DataGhost> ah well then, you need to rtfm indeed SethXxX :)
22.49.13 #       <Soap> SethXxX: reboot, as soon as the screen turns on put the hold switch in the on (red) position.
22.49.20 Quit    BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection)
22.49.34 Quit    subson ()
22.49.40 #       <Soap> you'll see the text message "loading original firmware" - and you can turn the hold switch off at that time.
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22.51.04 #       <entheh> guys, when you compile for Rockbox, what size are the various C data types? how many bits is int etc.?
22.51.09 #       <entheh> *compile Rockbox
22.51.28 #       <SethXxX> thx soap
22.51.38 #       <amiconn> entheh: Don't rely on type sizes
22.51.48 #       <amiconn> (of standard C types that is)
22.52.08 #       <amiconn> The only type that is guaranteed to be fixed size is char
22.52.09 #       <entheh> at the moment, DUMB assumes int is 32 bits
22.52.11 #       <entheh> :/
22.52.22 #       <entheh> am I going to have to use int32_t?
22.52.31 #       <amiconn> int can be 16 or 32 bit (although the only 16 bit port is currently dead)
22.52.49 #       <amiconn> long can be 32 or 64 bit (the latter in the simulator only)
22.53.05 #       <entheh> would the 16-bit port be capable of 32-bit int values where needed (using long or whatever)?
22.53.17 #       <amiconn> yes
22.53.20 #       <entheh> ok
22.53.31 #       <amiconn> pointers are usually the same size as long, but don't rely on that
22.53.44 #       <entheh> do you have 'long long'?
22.53.44 #       <amiconn> Especially don't rely on pointers having the same size as int
22.53.48 #       <amiconn> yes
22.53.54 #       <amiconn> long long is a gcc feature
22.54.14 #       <entheh> I think DUMB uses it in just one place: it does a 32x32->64 multiply and just takes the top 32 bits of the result
22.54.22 #       <amiconn> oh
22.54.38 #       <entheh> it does it by casting to long long, then multiplying, then shifting >> 32, then casting back to int - and I checked the ASM for one GCC version and it was good
22.54.40 #       <amiconn> That offers some opportunities for optimisation on target :)
22.54.41 #       <entheh> for x86 that is
22.54.49 #       <entheh> but I'd probably not use that part of DUMB in the port anyway :)
22.54.56 #       <entheh> so that's probably academic
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22.55.25 #       <amiconn> On coldfire this could then use emac optimisation
22.55.31 #       <entheh> emac?
22.55.45 #       <amiconn> enhanced multiply-accumulate
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22.56.07 #       <entheh> well it's part of the resampling/mixing loop
22.56.12 #       <amiconn> It's a dsp-like unit in the coldfire core
22.58.48 #       <entheh> amiconn: how likely is it that the 16-bit port will be resurrected, and how likely is it that new ones will come along?
22.59.01 #       <amiconn> I have no idea
22.59.24 #       <entheh> platforms where int is 16-bit aren't common these days ... and allowing for them would probably make life a bit difficult
22.59.28 #       <amiconn> It was a rather weird target
22.59.28 #       <entheh> in DUMB in general
22.59.47 #       <Zagor> entheh: I would recommend ignoring 16-bit and face that headache if/when we want/need it.
22.59.49 #       <amiconn> Not only was it a 16 bit cpu, but it also was a harvard architecture
22.59.59 #       <entheh> Zagor: that's what I'm hoping I can get away with ^^
23.00.11 #       <amiconn> calmrisc16 core
23.00.48 #       <entheh> even Java is designed with 32-bit CPUs in mind (e.g. variable reads/writes are atomic except for the two 64-bit types)
23.01.06 #       <entheh> what's a harvard architecture?
23.01.27 #       <amiconn> Separate instruction and data bus
23.02.07 #       <entheh> oh, where code is in one address space and data are in another?
23.02.12 #       <amiconn> yes
23.02.23 #       <amiconn> Most dsps use this
23.02.33 Quit    robin0800_ ("(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer")
23.06.39 #       <SethXxX> for whoever is working on this: note there is a difference between the usb power coming from a pc connection and the wall charger, with ipods. the requires a data connection, the other only gives juice.
23.08.00 #       <amiconn> Of course there is a difference, but rockbox does not yet detect it
23.08.55 #       * amiconn ordered an usb wall charger for working on this problem
23.09.29 Quit    blue_lizard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.09.32 #       <SethXxX> 30 well spent bucks
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23.10.21 #       <Soap> $30 for a 5v wall-wart with a USB jack?
23.10.37 #       <SethXxX> for a nice white apple charger
23.10.39 #       <SethXxX> from FNAC
23.10.44 #       <SethXxX> no electro shops here
23.10.47 #       <SethXxX> too bad
23.10.58 #       <SethXxX> otherwise i woulld also have gone the hardcore way
23.10.58 #       <SethXxX> :)
23.11.09 #       <amiconn> EUR 12.70
23.11.24 #       <amiconn> ..from amazon germany
23.11.44 #       <amiconn> Not the apple thing
23.13.28 #       <Mikachu> can't you just put tape over the data+/- lines? :)
23.13.36 #       <Mikachu> (on the regular usb cable)
23.14.21 #       <SethXxX> hahaha
23.16.24 #       <amiconn> hrmpf
23.16.41 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23.16.57 #       <amiconn> Why does 'svn add' add a property svn_executable to my new file??
23.17.10 #       <amiconn> svn:executable even
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23.18.19 #       <Soap> Mikachu: I think even Saran wrap over the pins would make the plug too tight of a fit.
23.19.46 Quit    Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.23.14 #       <Mikachu> you can put the tape on the usb end
23.25.02 #       <Soap> true
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23.28.37 Quit    Redbreva (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.38.12 #       <bluebrother> one could also use a cheap usb cable, cut it in two halves and resolder the power wires ...
23.45.58 Join    hen3rz [0] (n=hen3rz@203-206-54-217.dyn.iinet.net.au)
23.46.18 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23.48.22 #       <Soap> or add a double pole switch...
23.48.33 Join    Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.218.247)
23.50.24 #       <Zagor> or one can just value ones' time so much that spending 12 euro is worth more than tinkering with cheap cables :)
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23.53.10 #       <Soap> but a switch, man!  Switch on, switch off!  Frankenstein style blade switch at that!  Dude...that's got to be worth 12 - 13 euros!  ;)
23.58.46 Quit    _jhMikeS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.58.54 #       <amiconn> There's one advantage in having an usb wall charger over just having a modded cable: one can charge without carrying a computer