--- Log for 02.03.107  Server: kornbluth.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 18 hours and 54 minutes ago

00.00.11 #       <roolku> saratoga: I took Basic at Uni - there was no C course at the time - don't generalise from your own experience
00.00.56 #       <preglow> the soldering -> c experionce crossover is a bit... optimistic too
00.01.10 #       <LinusN> we have supplied 8mb builds for years, and now we are debating a build that has 10 times more users
00.01.23 #       <|Rincewind|> you don't to know c to compile, just the ability to follow a guide and search the whole rockbox wiki for the bits of information you need
00.01.28 #       <preglow> LinusN: i don't really think it's a debate, i'd just go ahead and add the build
00.01.34 #       <pixelma> no - I'm fine with the extra daily
00.01.42 Quit    kaaloo ("Leaving.")
00.02.37 #       <amiconn> LinusN: That supplying of 8MB builds is one thing I wonder about
00.03.07 #       <Llorean> I just like the idea of "hardware mod" builds being in the daily, and maybe even compiled for the build table, but not in the download table on builds.rockbox.org, as I think they'll confuse a lot of users, especially if we get more in the future.
00.03.14 #       <amiconn> I think the question here is whether we want to support all mods or no mods in th eofficial builds
00.03.20 #       <preglow> amiconn: i think we could supply it, but i'd like to remove it from the current build table
00.03.30 #       <preglow> let's not make it an "all or nothing" question
00.03.40 #       <amiconn> But only supporting some of them sounds like an unfair thing
00.03.48 #       <roolku> preglow: but then nobody will know if it is broken?
00.03.55 #       <Llorean> preglow: It might be nice to keep it in the actual error/warning table, but remove it from the download portion of that page, so that only archived dailies of it are downloadable, for neatness in that aspect?
00.03.59 #       <preglow> roolku: well, yes, the daily build will be broken...
00.04.16 Join    FordGT [0] (i=4a470f22@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3e713c9d7208a64a)
00.04.16 #       <amiconn> And including mods in the svn builds causes longer build cycles
00.04.16 #       <preglow> Llorean: then what's the point?
00.04.28 #       <roolku> preglow: but not visible in the table and hard to track back to the commit that caused it
00.04.28 #       <preglow> Llorean: if it's actually compiled, let's let people download it
00.04.42 #       <preglow> roolku: i think breaking an alarm_rtc target will be easy to track down, though
00.04.42 #       <Llorean> preglow: My concern is end-user confusion. People who've done a hardware mod know to look for it. People who don't know it exists don't necessarily realize there are two builds for their target.
00.04.46 #       <scorche> we could implement a separate build table for all the mods underneath the extras in downloads, or even create a new entry
00.04.53 #       <LinusN> how many mods are we talking about?
00.05.05 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I think the assumption is that we don't know how many there will be in the future.
00.05.09 #       <Llorean> We have 3 right now, right?
00.05.11 #       <amiconn> roolku: Any mod could break in theory. Does that mean we should provide builds for all mods, even in combination?
00.05.33 #       <Nico_P> why not add runtime detection in the plugins and when they are run on a H120 that doesn't have the mod they would fail gracefully and siaply a message like "sorry, but this only works on modded devices"
00.05.51 #       <pixelma> I think it's 4 mods (at least)
00.05.59 #       <Nico_P> s/siaply/display
00.05.59 #       <LinusN> Nico_P: they would clutter the plugin browser
00.06.18 #       <Nico_P> how many plugins are we talking about ? one, two ?
00.06.19 Join    JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00.06.30 #       <LinusN> something like that
00.06.33 #       <roolku> Nico_P: yes and add an advert for the clock chip manufacturer. :)
00.06.35 #       <pixelma> Nico_P: would you want to see a plugin that never works - even if it fails "gracefully"?
00.06.41 Join    SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@cpe-74-71-205-222.twcny.res.rr.com)
00.06.49 #       * amiconn knows about at least 6 mods or "behaviour variations" against svn
00.06.57 #       <n1s> JdGordon: we want the left from browser -> root menu back!
00.07.02 #       <amiconn> Some of them apply to multiple targets
00.07.08 #       <n1s> :-P
00.07.10 #       <amiconn> ...and some of them can be mixed...
00.07.18 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: i would probably just delete them
00.07.29 #       <roolku> pixelma: there are loads of plugins I never user one more or less doesn't matter to me
00.07.30 Join    Kevinaswell [0] (i=4ba1a0bc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e939887e0abdbeac)
00.07.36 #       <Nico_P> same here
00.07.39 #       <pixelma> you'd have to do that everytime you update
00.07.39 #       <Kevinaswell> so now that I got rockbox finally running, i have another question XD
00.07.39 #       * |Rincewind| cries the same as n1s
00.07.43 Quit    lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00.07.57 #       <Kevinaswell> how do i get my computer to recognize it again?
00.08.08 #       <Kevinaswell> i tried to plug it in to add themes, but nothing happened at all.
00.08.35 #       <roolku> pixelma: write a script :)
00.08.37 #       <Llorean> Kevinaswell: Shut it down, and then turn on the hold switch immediately after turning it on.
00.08.44 #       <Llorean> roolku: And you want all of our users to write a script?
00.08.49 #       <JdGordon> n1s: im with you there...
00.08.55 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Everyone is.
00.08.59 #       <Kevinaswell> Llorean:  shut it down while it's unplugged or plugged?
00.09.05 #       <Nico_P> wtf i hadn't seem that left in browser root didn't go to rockbox menu anymore... why ??
00.09.07 #       <Llorean> Kevinaswell: Unplugged.
00.09.13 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: yes we changed our minds...
00.09.13 #       <Llorean> Kevinaswell: Don't plug it in until you're in the Apple OS.
00.09.16 #       <roolku> no, i think most users won't bother with having another (for them) useless file there
00.09.20 #       <JdGordon> pixelma: haha really?
00.09.24 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Yes.
00.09.27 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: really
00.09.29 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: Don't worry, it should be fixed.
00.09.31 #       * JdGordon can access svn.rocbkox.org again :D
00.09.40 #       <Kevinaswell> okay. thanks.
00.09.41 #       <JdGordon> ok, ill put it back in today
00.09.46 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: something is very strange about the root menu and my patch. If I call playlist_viewer() from my patch and then exit it, it wants to enter the database
00.09.46 #       <preglow> JdGordon: with the amount of people changing their minds here: good for you :)
00.09.47 #       <Llorean> roolku: I think users will try it, and complain that it doesn't work. Many users.
00.09.55 #       <roolku> s/bother with/mind/
00.10.00 #       <amiconn> (1) 8MB mod: possible for all sh based archoses - 6 targets. (2) RTC alarm mod for recorder v1. (3) Backlight for Ondio FM and SP. (4) disk poweroff for archos player (it's a hardware revision thing whether this works properly). (5) autorock, for all targets. (6) RTC for H1x0 - 2 targets.
00.10.01 #       <Nico_P> I was afraid it was because there had been too much complaining from nostalgics of the old interface
00.10.06 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: the same happens with rockbox_browse()
00.10.08 #       <Llorean> Kevinaswell: You'll have to use Menu+Select to reboot out of Apple OS to get back to Rockbox, after you're done.
00.10.22 #       <roolku> Llorean: how many users have complained yet?
00.10.49 #       <Kevinaswell> Llorean: thanks. how does the file tree work for rockbox? do i have to re add all my music to my ipod?
00.10.53 #       <roolku> Llorean: vs. one user who said he will now do the RTC mod because it is included in the SVN
00.10.54 #       <amiconn> Combinable: 1, 2, 5 / 1, 3, 5 / 1, 4, 5 / 5, 6
00.11.01 #       <Llorean> Kevinaswell: No, investigate the "Database" in the manual.
00.11.05 #       <amiconn> Now how many extra builds does that yield?
00.11.19 #       <Kevinaswell> Llorean: thanks, mate. sorry if this is annoying.
00.11.25 #       <Llorean> roolku: Yes, but we're talking about a single day here, many of our users don't update but maybe monthly anyway.
00.12.04 #       <preglow> but please let's not debate whether we should include non-working plugins or not
00.12.07 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: while you mention it, did you ever figure out if the disk poweroff problem was the same as I was having with the H10?
00.12.09 #       <preglow> because we really shouldn't
00.12.17 #       <|Rincewind|> roolku: I wouldn't want to have plugins that don't work
00.12.17 #       <Llorean> LinusN: We could leave the HAVE_RTC (or whatever the define is) plugins out of the H120 build no matter what, maybe?
00.12.25 #       <roolku> personally I'd rather have something extra instead of something missing
00.12.28 #       <Llorean> preglow: Roolku is trying to debate it.
00.12.44 #       <Llorean> roolku: You'd rather have extra broken things, than no broken things at all?
00.12.46 #       <amiconn> barrywardell_: I can't; it is LinusN's player which does have the problem.
00.13.13 #       <barrywardell_> ah, so did he ever check that?
00.13.20 #       <roolku> if the broken thing (i.e. not existing thing in my mind) implies an extra thing in certain cases - yes
00.13.23 #       <amiconn> He did some investigation, it seems to be a different problem, but it's mysterious
00.13.26 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: my player is sick atm
00.13.56 #       <roolku> I can only say my opinion
00.13.58 #       <preglow> it's really simple for me
00.14.09 #       <preglow> i don't want to waste time answering users why their plugins don't work
00.14.10 #       <preglow> it wastes my time
00.14.22 #       <preglow> like i do with repeating thingsg
00.14.33 #       <Llorean> roolku: How are plugins that don't work how they should "extra" in any sense but "extra buggy"?
00.14.37 #       <roolku> anyway - I would appreciate if the code was compiled and available for users who can't compile it themselves
00.14.50 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Battery contacts? Or still the batteries?
00.15.00 #       <LinusN> both, i guess
00.15.06 #       <JdGordon> lame... nothing in either ml or the forums about the new menu :p
00.15.18 Quit    Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.15.27 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: People outside this channel just don't update that much
00.15.28 #       <preglow> no one seems opposed to a daily build of the rtc mod
00.15.32 #       <amiconn> It seems I have no luck with those high-capacity NiMHs. This new generation of low-self-discharge NiMHs might work better
00.15.45 #       <roolku> Llorean: I don't fancy a polemic debate - you can twist words as much as you like. In the specific case here I have voices my opinion. I can accept that other people have a different one so please do the same
00.16.08 #       <amiconn> My archoses do work, but if I don't use them for a few days, batteries are empty...
00.16.27 #       <preglow> amiconn: i've got a couple of nimh devices that are the same
00.16.39 #       <preglow> most noticably a camera
00.16.46 #       <Llorean> roolku: I just don't understand yours at all. You're advocating including extra things that don't work as if it were good. Why then shouldn't we compile all plugins for all targets?
00.16.47 #       <saratoga> does anyone have any idea why I can't get ipodpatcher to properly patch a 3G without screwing up the bootloader?
00.16.49 #       <roolku> preglow: any advice on how I go about it
00.16.52 #       <saratoga> I assume its still supported?
00.17.04 #       <amiconn> I already have one set of these new-generation NiMHs (not in an archos) which works very well, so probably I should get a few more
00.17.10 #       <preglow> roolku: i dunno, linus has said he thinks it's ok, so just assumed he's on it in some way
00.17.14 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Use the older IpodInstallation wiki page for now.
00.17.19 #       <preglow> roolku: few of us others have access to the build servers
00.17.28 #       <barrywardell_> LinusN: :( If you ever get it working, it was just  matter of waiting 1 tick after turing disk power on to allow the voltage to stabalize
00.17.40 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: i understand
00.18.00 #       <preglow> roolku: bagder is also a nice chap to bother about build server stuff
00.18.05 #       <LinusN> preglow, roolku: it's a matter of adding the RTC build as a target in tools/configure
00.18.06 #       <amiconn> barrywardell_, LinusN: That reminds me - the weird behaviour in the ata driver is still there
00.18.41 #       <amiconn> At initial poweron, the ata driver waits one full second for the voltage to stabilise, but at normal spinups it doesn't wait at all...
00.18.41 #       <roolku> Llorean: no, but I think it is a negible price to pay for something that is of use for some people
00.18.46 #       <pixelma> roolku: I take it to the extreme... should all of the other users have backlight settings on their non-modded Ondios?
00.18.52 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: have you done something important to the main loop in gwps.c when you wrote the root menu?
00.19.08 #       <Llorean> roolku: That's because it's a price you don't have to pay, but I personally will probably have to pay on a daily basis as people begin upgrading their builds.
00.19.23 #       <JdGordon> nothing really major... but possibly adding the returns where I did could afect it
00.19.27 #       <markun> alienbiker99: what are the flaws in the new main menu?
00.19.28 #       <Llorean> roolku: It's also a 'price' that makes Rockbox look vastly less professional because it packages non-working programs.
00.19.29 #       <JdGordon> somthing broke?
00.19.33 #       <roolku> pixelma: sorry I don't understand your analogy
00.19.38 Join    fasmaie [0] (n=yohann@c-71-233-79-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
00.19.52 #       <preglow> roolku: problem is that a negligible price like that soon grows big if we continue with that practice
00.20.02 #       <preglow> so i say let's not start it in the first place
00.20.04 #       <|Rincewind|> my patch broke, leaving functions like playlist_viewer() or rockbox_browse() now want to enter database
00.20.05 #       <roolku> Llorean: read again: "I think"
00.20.29 #       <Llorean> roolku: Yes, but I feel particularly slighted by the fact that you're perfectly willing to pay for it with my time.
00.20.37 #       <|Rincewind|> even when database is not ready/in use
00.20.54 #       <roolku> Llorean: and "Llorean: I don't fancy a polemic debate - you can twist words as much as you like. In the specific case here I have voices my opinion. I can accept that other people have a different one so please do the same"
00.21.04 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: which patch?
00.21.04 #       <preglow> he's not exactly twisting words now
00.21.11 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: I think it's only a fringe case in practise. Only happens if ide power is off already
00.21.17 #       <|Rincewind|> record button config
00.21.26 #       <LinusN> i think the biggest problem with always having RTC enabled is the added, nonworking plugins. And the reason that it will be a problem is that users who don't know about the RTC mod *will* ask about the nonworking plugins in the forums, mailing list and IRC.
00.21.31 #       <amiconn> barrywardell_: Yes, that too.
00.21.32 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: but I think it should be removed
00.21.38 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: #5555
00.21.40 #       <preglow> LinusN: amen
00.21.46 #       * preglow goes back to code
00.22.05 #       <roolku> Llorean: I and I feel particularly slighted by the fact that you're willing to waste others people time
00.22.07 #       <amiconn> barrywardell_: Maybe it's a good idea to always wait a little bit for the voltage to stabilise
00.22.20 #       <amiconn> Just one tick, as required on H10
00.22.24 #       <preglow> roolku: they are themselves choosing to do so, that's the difference
00.22.26 #       <Llorean> roolku: You suggested doing so before I began to do so, so I feel vindicated by it being your idea, if you want to put it that way.
00.22.34 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: for the H10 at least, that is done in ide_power_enable()
00.22.57 #       <roolku> Llorean: I guess you'll have to live with that then
00.23.04 #       <amiconn> Yes, but maybe it would be a good idea to do it in general
00.23.08 #       <Llorean> Live with what? I feel fine.
00.23.30 Join    donvito [0] (n=Snake@71-89-49-84.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com)
00.24.13 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: yes, I think so
00.24.21 #       <LinusN> still, i think if any mod "deserves" a svn build, it would be the RTC mod
00.24.46 #       <markun> it is a pretty cool mod :)
00.24.48 #       <LinusN> it is vastly more popular than the other ones
00.24.48 #       <preglow> agreed too
00.25.15 #       <pixelma> the problem is that it's hard to draw the line
00.25.18 #       <amiconn> barrywardell_: Regarding the player - it's strange that even the archos fw of the earliest players which had ata power control (the very first generation didn't) has a pair of ata power control functions - which are not identical with the initial ata poweron, that happens in a separate place
00.25.18 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I'm all for it having a build, of any sort other than "The only H120 build we offer"
00.25.19 #       <LinusN> and it's not like we need to set a policy either
00.25.55 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  is there some easy way to just remove the rockbox bootloader?
00.26.11 #       <saratoga> i'm mostly interested in getting the retail OS to work
00.26.18 #       <Llorean> saratoga: ipodpatcher -w bootpartition.bin is probably what you want to do, I assume you kept your original backup?
00.26.22 #       <LinusN> it makes quite a few users (and devs) happy
00.26.27 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: dan_a has reported that ipodpatcher is working fine on his 3g.
00.26.27 #       <saratoga> following the old instructions gets rockbox working, but the bootloader dies loading the retailos
00.26.33 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: ok, rockbox_browse returns an int now which could be your problem... and you need to return GO_TO_REC (or something similar.. check root_menu.h) to load the recording screen
00.26.41 #       <preglow> it'd probably make me happy if i dared opening my h120 one more time
00.26.43 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Depends on how you measure popularity. If you put the number of modded devices in relation to the number of all devices of that type running rockbox, I doubt it
00.27.00 #       <preglow> amiconn: we're not doing a statistic here
00.27.07 #       <LinusN> amiconn: that is irrelevant
00.27.27 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: ok, that probably is the problem, I still use it as a bool and true = usb in this case
00.27.37 #       <LinusN> the ratio of modded/unmodded devices is irrelevant
00.27.42 #       <preglow> if ten people have a h120 mod and five people have an fmrecorder mod, then the h120 mod is the most popular one
00.28.00 #       <LinusN> exactly
00.28.21 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  yes I've kept the extracted firmware, though running that command just rendered the ipod unable to boot again
00.28.24 #       <JdGordon> not it the only 5 ppl with a recorder are the same 5 using the mod
00.28.32 #       <Llorean> saratoga: "Extracted firmware"?
00.28.34 #       <JdGordon> but we dont leep stats do we?
00.28.36 #       <linuxstb> So is anyone against adding mods to the current builds table (but not making the build servers return the .zips), and adding them as daily downloads?
00.28.41 #       <JdGordon> s/leep/keep
00.28.44 #       <preglow> i'm so, so tired of white noise now
00.28.48 #       <Soap> it would be nice if someone with a vested interest simply ran a parallel build server with "mod builds"
00.29.01 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: why not offer the zips?
00.29.16 #       <linuxstb> An extra load on the build servers, slowing down the builds.
00.29.16 #       <roolku> linuxstb: could be a good compromise, but requires some more effort than just adding a build
00.29.20 #       <Llorean> I think the .zips should be on a separate page, or in a separate table, at the very least.
00.29.45 #       * amiconn thinks that providing mods as daily builds would be more than enough
00.29.48 #       <saratoga> Llorean: the bootpartition.bin, although given that ipodpatcher.exe had already blotched my bootpartition I suspect its no longer good
00.29.48 #       <LinusN> yeah, the mod builds could be in a separate download section
00.30.00 #       <Llorean> I really, _really_ don't want normal users accidentally trying to install officially-modified builds because they don't realize there's two builds for their target.
00.30.01 #       <preglow> LinusN: do you know if doing a build table for the dailies would make for a big hack?
00.30.07 #       * JdGordon requests archos without tagcache as mods also
00.30.19 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Yes, the bootpartition.bin is supposed to have been created before you install anything...
00.30.21 Nick    midkay_ is now known as midkay (n=midkay@c-24-19-236-139.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
00.30.23 #       <roolku> LinusN: but it would still be good if failure to build them would be visible
00.30.48 #       <LinusN> preglow: i think it wouldn't be that easy - it depends on the amount of hardcoding in the scripts
00.30.53 #       <scorche> as per JdGordon's suggestion, at least just rombox
00.30.59 #       <preglow> LinusN: yeah, no point if it's a bother
00.31.04 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  oh the original, I don't konw what happened to it, its been a year or so since I installed the bootloader
00.31.10 Quit    petur ("Zzzzz")
00.31.14 #       <saratoga> is there someway to get another one?
00.31.31 #       <Llorean> saratoga: If you've managed to damage your apple OS image at all, you need either the original, or a properly extracted apple_os.ipod
00.31.50 #       <pixelma> scorche: is rombox still buildable without tagcache after all?
00.31.52 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/ - the .ipsw file linked from there is a zip file.  Unzip it and you'll get a Firmware-X.Y.Z file which is an image of your firmware partition.
00.31.53 #       <Llorean> saratoga: You pretty much have to extract it from an ipod update tool, or restore your ipod, or find someone with a 3G who can give you one.
00.32.33 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: But note that when you restore that Firmware-X.Y.Z file, your ipod will want to flash itself, so let it...
00.32.38 #       <scorche> pixelma: it should be
00.32.58 #       <markun> JdGordon: I would like to have (mostly) global volume button keys for the Gigabeat. Any idea how it could be done in a nice way?
00.33.34 Part    midkay ("Leaving")
00.33.35 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: it seems that the root menu introduced a bug at USB handling. I had music playing, connected usb, disconnected. Now it says "Lese Festplatte..." (="read disc...") and is frozen
00.33.38 Join    midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00.33.43 #       <saratoga> linuxstb:  just to be clear, I should use ipodpatcher -w Firmware-xyz ?
00.34.08 #       <roolku> right. So what is the conclusion wrt to the RTC build?
00.34.21 #       <JdGordon> markun: eaisest way is to add actions and then the kepmap to each major context
00.34.39 #       <JdGordon> but #ifdef around the action because most targets wont be able to do that
00.34.56 #       <LinusN> roolku: *my* conclusion is that i want a svn build of the rtc mod, but we have no concensus
00.34.58 Join    linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00.35.01 #       <linuxstb_> saratoga: Yes.
00.35.16 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: hmm... damn
00.35.54 #       <|Rincewind|> In the sim I got a core dump but thought the problem was with the simulated usb
00.36.14 #       <|Rincewind|> it should go to root menu, right?
00.36.33 #       <preglow> LinusN: i'd say the people with the build server have a bit more say than the rest, though
00.36.37 #       <barrywardell_> ok
00.36.39 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: what should?
00.36.44 #       <barrywardell_> sorry, wrong window
00.36.45 #       <LinusN> preglow: :-)
00.37.07 #       <preglow> let's not make some great big deal out of it and add the build. the day people come in here whining for the 8 meg build, we can discuss adding that too
00.37.08 #       <|Rincewind|> if I unplug usb, then the music has stopped playing, so it should show the root menu
00.37.14 #       <saratoga> linuxstb_: thanks for your assistance
00.37.15 #       <LinusN> i'm just a little tired of the "if we do X, we have to do Y" arguments
00.37.22 #       <preglow> LinusN: exactly
00.37.48 #       <preglow> i don't think adding a build to the table implies any kind of policy
00.37.56 #       <LinusN> me neither
00.37.58 #       <preglow> it's just one more build people have requested
00.38.13 #       <LinusN> exactly
00.38.26 #       <Soap> before you add the build, do a survey, and make them tell you what about the three build enviroments they had trouble with ;)
00.38.31 #       <preglow> hahaha
00.39.04 Quit    Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00.39.17 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: no, it should put you back n whatevr screen you were I... i tink
00.39.41 #       <markun> Can't we have an extra build for every target with the album art patch applied? (just kidding ;)
00.39.42 Join    DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p54BD37C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00.39.50 #       <barrywardell_> why doesn't sleep() work in bootloader builds for ipod/h10
00.40.34 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: the problem is, the WPS returned with SYS_USB_CONNECTED, but you don't handle this case in root_menu.c
00.40.36 #       <SpAwN> wow rockbox is realy cool.
00.41.02 #       <markun> SpAwN: yes, it is :)
00.41.06 #       * roolku is still confused what he should do now
00.41.11 #       <SpAwN> onlything i cant seem to fix is the scroll speed...i see the options for it..but they dont sem to make adifference
00.41.11 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: the wps returns SYS_USB_CONNECTED ?
00.41.11 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: i have a question about ipodpatcher and OSX. The dmg file is automounted by the system and then executed?
00.41.19 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: interrupts are disabled
00.41.34 #       <Soap> SpAwN: ahh, you are on an iPod.
00.41.38 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: gwps.c on line 639
00.41.44 #       <SpAwN> Soap, yes ipod video
00.41.45 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: I've no idea...
00.41.49 #       <n1s> SpAwN: they don't do what you thik they do
00.41.51 #       <SpAwN> Soap, is this a known issue?
00.42.05 #       <roolku> add build target/remove run-time detection/do nothing?
00.42.13 #       <SpAwN> n1s, hmm what u mean?
00.42.14 #       <barrywardell_> hmm. can't we implement a sleep without interrupts?
00.42.15 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst:  What makes you ask that?
00.42.15 #       <LinusN> roolku: add build target
00.42.18 #       <Soap> yes, if you are up to compiling your own build you can add the Kernel on COP patch, which will help some.
00.42.25 #       <preglow> roolku: in any case, runtime detection should nolonger be needed, so you can remove that
00.42.28 #       <n1s> SpAwN: look for them in the manual, they control line scrolling for text.
00.42.35 #       <barrywardell_> even just a wrapper around udelay() would work?
00.42.44 #       <preglow> roolku: then you can add a build target like linusn says. model it on the way mods are handled for the other targets
00.42.58 #       <SpAwN> n1s, hmm but i can make it go faster?....
00.43.07 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: ah ok.. thanks... easy fix
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00.43.16 #       <SpAwN> Soap, is there info on compiling it...ive compiled a few kernels b4....
00.43.18 #       <JdGordon> should it go back to the screen you were in? or the root menu?
00.43.39 #       <n1s> SpAwN: scrolling a list with the wheel thingy-- not really, text scrolling --- sure
00.43.40 #       <roolku> preglow: okay, I'll try :)
00.43.47 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: root is probably the easiest for now
00.44.05 #       <SpAwN> n1s, hmm yea im looking to be able to scroll though my music list quicker.
00.44.11 #       <|Rincewind|> i think it should go to the root menu, because the file on disc that was playing could have been deleted
00.44.13 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: heh.. but you've made it ^^ It's because i'm trying to help s.o. over at the iPL forums to install loader2 on his nano 1G but he... well... is not very good at describing what happens. so i don't know how to pass args to ipodpatcher.
00.44.19 #       <Soap> SpAwN: in the Wiki, under DocumentationIndex you should find guides for the three maintained ready-to-go build enviroments, there is also a forum board dedicated to compiling.
00.45.00 #       <SpAwN> Soap, allright thanks man :-)
00.45.01 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: he says the dmg file opens in the terminal and asks him to install the rb bootloader.
00.45.03 Quit    ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00.45.20 Quit    CriamosAndy ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00.45.29 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: Double-clicking the .dmg file will mount it.  He'll then need to drag it somewhere (e.g. to the Desktop).  Then in a terminal prompt, type "cd ~/Desktop" followed by ./ipodpatcher ....
00.45.41 #       <linuxstb_> s/drag it/drag ipodpatcher/
00.45.48 #       <DerPapst> thats all i wanted to know. thanks :D
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00.47.48 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: i hope he understands it ;)
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00.48.58 #       <LinusN> preglow: does the rtc alarm detection work fine on the ipod?
00.49.18 #       <preglow> LinusN: should, if you just mean wake on alarm detection
00.49.25 #       <LinusN> yes
00.49.38 #       <preglow> how? doesn't work with yours?
00.49.39 #       <LinusN> i am facing a similar problem on the h300
00.49.59 #       <preglow> how similar? :=
00.50.04 #       <LinusN> the h300 bootloader reads the interrupt registers
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00.50.20 #       <preglow> LinusN: well, then just use the code as is, should work
00.50.22 #       <LinusN> so rockbox doesn't see the rtc wakeup bit
00.50.33 #       <LinusN> preglow: that's what i figured
00.51.15 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: Maybe you should offer ipodpatcher builds with an embedded loader2 binary for IPL installation...
00.52.24 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: hehe... we are on svn now.. not cvs :p
00.52.34 #       <JdGordon> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7605.msg70100#msg70100
00.52.57 Join    Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@84.177.82.239)
00.53.11 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: I just can't untrain my fingers.
00.53.24 #       <JdGordon> same... half the time im typs cvn up :p
00.54.00 #       <bluebrother> cvn? what's that? ;-)
00.54.26 #       <JdGordon> excalty... bash asks the same thing
00.54.40 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: you could define an alias in you bash config
00.54.42 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: is a-b mode not enabled in the x5 because of buttons?
00.54.55 #       <LinusN> i have no idea
00.55.09 #       <LinusN> i believe there is a patch for it somewhere
00.55.18 #       <preglow> LinusN: you need to merge the two rtc pcf drivers, but i guess you've noticed that
00.55.29 #       <LinusN> preglow: yeah
00.55.42 #       <preglow> LinusN: btw, h300 can dispense of the 2099 hack and instead use the wake on rtc bit to signify an enabled alarm
00.56.07 #       <SpAwN> Soap, do you know of a place where i can find more inf on the COP patch? i cant seem to find it on the rockbox site.
00.56.15 #       <LinusN> preglow: ah, yes
00.56.34 #       <preglow> LinusN: but i don't know if it's worth bothering, if these players exist in 2099, i'll personally arise from the dead to pop a bottle of champagne and fondle some live women
00.56.35 #       <Soap> SpAwN: on the patch tracker
00.56.39 #       <Soap> #5755
00.56.57 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: might be a good idea... but i can compile it only for 2 systems and i don't know how to embed a loader...
00.57.05 #       <SpAwN> Soap, killer thanks :-)
00.57.13 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9025.msg69506#new - you'd have to look into "Maxwen's build", maybe he states the actual patch for it
00.57.32 #       <LinusN> preglow: there is a risk that the OF always sets the wake-on-rtc bit...
00.57.41 #       <Llorean> preglow: I intend for my H120 to be in use in 2099 by my grandson, with a 2tb solid-state disk and a 6600mAh nanotechnology based battery.
00.57.52 #       <JdGordon> yeah, thats where i was... cant find that build in the unsupported builds..
00.58.04 #       <preglow> LinusN: ah, yes, there's that. well, in that case i also have to live with that so the code should handle that as well
00.58.14 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Maxwen's build is offered at the iaudiophile site's forums.
00.58.23 #       <preglow> Llorean: no rocketpack?
00.58.36 Quit    ender` (" Programming is like sex becuse: 2. Once you get started, you'll only stop because you're exhausted.")
00.58.43 #       <preglow> i just assume everyone will live in orbit around the earth by then
00.58.46 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: have you got a link directly to it?
00.58.47 #       <scorche> it should be able to make me coffee by then as well
00.58.50 #       <Llorean> preglow: I'm not a fan of the 'convergence' theory of pocket-sized devices, sorry.
00.58.58 #       <preglow> Llorean: :PP
00.59.11 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11787
00.59.17 #       <JdGordon> cheers
01.00.06 #       <Llorean> AUGH
01.00.12 #       <Llorean> I think I'm cursed with remotes in general.
01.00.16 Quit    anathema (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01.00.16 #       <Llorean> I just broke the one with my gigabeat.
01.00.19 Quit    obo ("bye")
01.00.34 #       <scorche> Llorean: stop going to the gym
01.00.47 #       <JdGordon> bah, his applied [patches page doesnt say what Fs the a-b patch is
01.01.38 #       <scorche> JdGordon: i havent checked (obviously), but are the aspects of database that are in the menu surrounded by the tagcache ifdef, or do i need to do that?
01.02.05 #       <JdGordon> I tihnk i was good and ifdefed them all.. but better check
01.03.10 #       <scorche> alright...thanks
01.03.30 #       <Llorean> scorche: I just tried to look up the remote part. This site has it out of stock, but $45... a significant fraction of what I paid for the whole player. Gr.
01.03.33 #       <midkay> JdGordon: nice work on root menu.. finally got to try it. :) i'll have to get used to it a little, but it seems like a better system that's worth learning.
01.03.37 #       * JdGordon thinks this maxwen person is doing a-b mode badly :p
01.03.43 #       <JdGordon> :)
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01.05.41 Part    Llorean
01.06.26 #       <linuxstb_> scorche: Did you buy that av320?
01.06.42 #       <scorche> linuxstb_: naw...lost it =(
01.06.51 #       <scorche> i tried though
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01.07.06 #       <|Rincewind|> What happens in this scenario: I enter playlist viewer directly from the main loop in gwps.c. (in my patch). While I am in there, I connect usb. Now the playlist_viewer() function exits with "true", signalling that usb is connected. What happens if I don't pass this information on to the loop in gwps.c? (what I mean is, is the SYS_SUB_CONNECTED event only created once or will gwps notice it the next time it polls the buttons?
01.07.13 #       <scorche> this guy was constantly upping his own price to make sure no one else got it
01.07.42 #       <LinusN> |Rincewind|: the SYS_USB_CONNECTED event is sent only once
01.08.40 #       <toffe> JdGordon: could it be possible to make sub menu in the plugin menu and arrange them like in the manual (games, demos,applications..)
01.08.44 #       <XavierGr> so what will happen with left = go back in settings and STOP = stop playback or cancel?
01.09.03 #       <XavierGr> currently STOP is stop on H300/H100 but cancel on ondio
01.09.17 #       <JdGordon> speaking of ebay auctions.... soneone mentioned missing out because the auction ended at midnight? Why dont wee have a dedicated rockbox ebay account so that doesnt happen again (i.e you guys are out cold while im having lunch.. i could bid)
01.09.37 #       <JdGordon> toffe: i belive bluebrother is working on that
01.09.42 #       <toffe> ok
01.10.47 #       <pixelma> XavierGr: not that again (at least not today) ;)
01.10.48 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: I don't think a multinational ebay account is possible
01.11.03 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: does ipod2c only accept bootloaders in *.ipod format?
01.11.13 #       <toffe> JdGordon: for ebay you have some utlities like biet-o-zilla which can bid at the last minute for you
01.11.33 #       <toffe> it is a firefox extension
01.11.37 #       <JdGordon> ok
01.11.43 #       <XavierGr> pixlema: heh, sorry... I just saw JdGordon and wanted to bring his attention on this
01.11.43 #       <scorche> toffe: yeah...this guy must have used something like that
01.11.53 #       <bluebrother> I can perfectly log into ebay.co.uk with my ebay.de account
01.12.00 #       <scorche> i should get it just for those opportunities
01.12.10 #       <barrywardell_> grrr. sleep() doesn't work on PP targets, but commenting out it's contents make the bootloader not work???
01.12.20 #       <preglow> JdGordon: how would that work out with credit card details and the like?
01.12.34 #       <toffe> scorche: what are you looking for ?
01.12.57 #       <JdGordon> ok, fine.. ignore me.. i wont try to be helpful anymore :p
01.13.24 #       <toffe> perhaps a paypal account link to the main office of rockbox ;)
01.13.25 #       <scorche> preglow: use the rockbox paypal account....and if it is personal, we can always just donate the money back....but you would have to trust that person a great deal to allow them access, which i dont think would happen
01.13.35 #       <scorche> toffe: lost out on an archos av320 today
01.13.38 #       <bluebrother> but I don't think shared accounts are allowed on ebay
01.13.44 #       <preglow> scorche: nah, it's the trust deal
01.13.52 #       <toffe> scorche: hox much ?
01.13.57 #       <pixelma> bluebrother: but be aware that the method-of-payment button sometimes isn't translated properly :/
01.14.02 #       <preglow> i don't want anyone to have to be liable to refund a ton of cash if they fuck up either
01.14.14 #       <preglow> which is bound to happen sooner or later
01.14.32 #       <scorche> it is more trouble that it would be worth
01.14.42 #       <bluebrother> I don't think shared accounts are useful there, anyway
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01.15.23 #       <barrywardell_> LinusN, linuxstb: any idea why even though sleep() doesn't work on PP, commenting out the contents of sleep() make the bootloader freeze?
01.15.30 #       <scorche> toffe: item 170084463215
01.15.39 #       <scorche> errrr....not that one
01.15.52 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: perhaps it still needs the yield()?
01.16.41 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: Yes - hence the name...
01.16.43 Part    jhulst ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
01.16.52 Quit    bluebrother ("nite all!")
01.16.57 #       <scorche> toffe: 170084460395
01.17.40 #       <barrywardell_> LinusN: ah, yes. commenting out yield() makes things work again.
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01.18.56 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: i wasn't that sure because of fprintf(stderr,"Usage: ipod2c file.bin cname\n");
01.19.18 #       <toffe> scorche:you can try this one , it is for repair  290088015014	
01.19.42 #       <toffe> no screen
01.19.43 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: Ah...
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01.21.03 #       <scorche> toffe: i would like one that works though...not sure what is left to be done really
01.21.22 #       * scorche looks over at linuxstb_
01.21.22 #       <toffe> ok
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01.21.32 #       <barrywardell_> LinusN: does this look like an ok way to get sleep working for the PP bootloaders: http://pastebin.ca/377762?
01.22.14 #       <scorche> although broken HD is an acceptable repair bid =)
01.22.16 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: there are still a few returns of SYS_USB_CONNECTED in gwps.c, I think they should be changed, too. Line 539, 560 and 579
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01.23.29 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: looks ok, but i really can't see why yield() shouldn't work
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01.24.13 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: how will this work on the X5? For example setting the markers?
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01.25.08 #       <linuxstb_> yield() should work in the ipod bootloaders - the 5g's lcd_update_rect() function uses it.
01.25.30 #       <barrywardell_> LinusN: yield() works
01.25.44 #       <barrywardell_> the problem is with sleep()
01.26.11 #       <LinusN> barrywardell_: but your patch disables yield() as well
01.26.25 #       <barrywardell_> only in order to let sleep work again
01.26.41 #       <barrywardell_> maybe changing sleep makes yield not work any more
01.27.09 #       <donvito> has anyone been working on the Sansa R bootloader?
01.27.24 #       <LinusN> you should try to find out why yield() doesn't work
01.27.56 #       <LinusN> because you might need it
01.28.15 #       <LinusN> i gotta get some sleep
01.28.17 #       <LinusN> nite all
01.28.36 #       <preglow> nite
01.28.38 Part    LinusN
01.28.38 Part    toffe
01.29.44 Quit    Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
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01.29.55 #       <barrywardell_> so anyone here who knows about the thread code?
01.30.03 #       <talking-head> hey y'all
01.30.14 Part    JustJohnny68
01.30.24 #       <JdGordon> pixelma: using the quickscreen button.. but i tinhk that should be changed to the select button
01.30.25 #       <talking-head> i have a Q about the optical out on an iriver ihp-120
01.30.32 #       <preglow> then ask
01.30.55 #       <talking-head> can you enable it on 'regular' playback
01.31.04 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: isn't that used already?
01.31.05 #       <Doomed_9> yeop
01.31.09 #       <preglow> what do you mean by regular playback?
01.31.14 #       <preglow> you can enable it during normal use, yes
01.31.17 #       <talking-head> the only time i can get the o/p to turn on (light up) is when recording using the opto in
01.31.30 #       <preglow> talking-head: you need to enable it separately
01.31.35 #       <talking-head> is it a menu option to turn it on?
01.31.40 #       <preglow> yes
01.31.52 #       <JdGordon> pixelma: yeah, with the a-b on it gets used for ab instead of quickscreen
01.32.19 #       <talking-head> anybody know where it is? i only ever see any options for it on the record screen
01.32.30 #       <preglow> talking-head: this is a good place to use the manual, but since it'm such a nice guy, i'll tell you: general settings -> playback settings -> optical output
01.32.46 #       <talking-head> i even looked at the manual and that's stretching it for me ;]
01.33.09 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: ah.. no I see. It was just because I didn't know how setting a-b repeat works :P
01.33.21 #       <JdGordon> ah
01.33.31 #       <pixelma> didn't remember...
01.33.39 #       <talking-head> dammit it was there all along
01.33.58 #       <talking-head> i am getting a 132.2khz/24 bit upsampling DAC with an opto in
01.34.01 #       <JdGordon> thats another custom buld we can do... a-b on ondio
01.34.15 #       <talking-head> so i want to use the iriver as a transport to play flacs into it
01.34.34 #       <preglow> talking-head: be aware that due to hardware limitations, spdif out is locked to 44.1khz during playback, though
01.34.36 #       <SpAwN> damn i had to close my irc client and i cant find out what patch i was supposed to install to help speed up scrolling on my ipod video
01.34.43 #       <SpAwN> it was like 5775
01.34.47 #       <SpAwN> or 5575
01.35.01 #       <preglow> talking-head: currently it's also limited to 16 bit audio, but that can be extended to 20 bits as soon as someone codes the support into the driver
01.35.03 #       <talking-head> yeah 44k is ok, it has an internal upsampling chip in it that triples the sample rate
01.35.23 #       <preglow> talking-head: yeah, just don't be surprised when your 48khz flacs get resampled (badly) internally in rockbox
01.35.35 #       <talking-head> ok good tip
01.35.40 #       <talking-head> i think all of my stuff is 44k tho
01.35.46 #       <preglow> talking-head: then you should have no problems
01.35.53 #       <talking-head> sweet thanks a ton :)
01.35.57 #       <preglow> np
01.36.23 #       <talking-head> u hear anything about AC3 thru the opto port?
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01.36.38 #       <preglow> what rate is that?
01.36.42 #       <talking-head> i saw some guys were doing dts but ac3 was kind of the next step for r+d
01.37.01 #       <preglow> it might be possible but it depends what bitrate it is
01.37.03 #       <talking-head> ac3 is multichannel encoded but i don't know what rate it runs at
01.37.06 #       <Doomed_9> does it downsample everything from the regular head phone or just hte optical out
01.37.18 #       <sakuramboo> hello everyone, i just installed rockbox on my 4th gen grey scale ipod and now i cant seem to connect to it from my computer
01.37.21 #       <preglow> Doomed_9: every output is resampled
01.37.43 #       <Doomed_9> i see
01.37.56 #       <talking-head> consumer device :)
01.38.00 #       <preglow> talking-head: the sample rate limitations i mentioned might put a stop to it, but anyway, it's not a feature i think any of the developers want, so don't expect it
01.38.13 #       <talking-head> just wondering i saw some peepz were talking about
01.38.18 #       <preglow> sure
01.38.20 #       <talking-head> during my opto-out searches
01.38.23 #       <preglow> it gets mentioned from time to time
01.38.29 #       <preglow> but nothing has happened yet
01.38.33 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: if i remove line 117 to 121 from ipod2c it should work with binfiles.. correct?
01.38.37 #       <talking-head> yeah, is that a bell or a whistle? lol
01.38.47 Join    saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-279a234751fa54bb)
01.38.48 #       <preglow> heh
01.38.55 #       <saratoga> someone is spamming the Zune thread
01.39.00 #       <talking-head> ok i m gonna run tnx again
01.39.02 #       <talking-head> :)
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01.39.06 #       <preglow> you're welcome
01.39.12 #       <saratoga> could we get this taken care of?
01.39.28 #       <saratoga> in the mean time I locked the thread to keep him from flamming people working on the port
01.39.37 #       <saratoga> thanks
01.39.57 #       <|Rincewind|> JdGordon: there is a problem with 'u' = usb in the simulator. If you press 'u' again to "disconnect" then the buttons don't work anymore
01.40.19 #       <Doomed_9> saratoga, i dont see any spam
01.40.25 #       <Doomed_9> unless you deleted it all
01.40.27 #       <saratoga> i've deleted it
01.40.31 #       <Doomed_9> ok
01.40.32 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: which buttons dont work after?
01.40.46 #       <saratoga> something about supporting piracy or something
01.40.49 #       <|Rincewind|> the only button that works is 'u'
01.41.05 #       <saratoga> i don't know, it was a long rant and I didn't bother to read beyond the YOU GUYS SUCKS part
01.41.54 #       <|Rincewind|> i had a look in the code and the problem seems to be with the variables new_btn and btn
01.42.20 #       <scorche> lets keep it in the to be deleted section....it is entertaining =D
01.42.32 #       <|Rincewind|> but I don't understand the code enough to fix it quickly and for you it is probably easy since you commited it
01.43.39 #       <scorche> haha... saratoga: you should read the whole thing..it was entertaining
01.43.44 Quit    funky (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
01.43.59 #       * JdGordon is curious... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9089.0
01.44.10 #       <linuxstb_> DerPapst: Yes.  You'll also need to remove the -8 in line 115.
01.44.21 #       <saratoga> i'll take a look tonight
01.44.25 #       <saratoga> now I'm heading out for dinner
01.44.40 #       <JdGordon> |Rincewind|: ok, i have to go have breaky, ill take my laptop to uni and try to fix it during my lecture :p
01.45.00 #       <|Rincewind|> thanks
01.45.00 Quit    saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01.45.23 #       * linuxstb_ doesn't seem to be able to see the "to be deleted" forum. :(
01.45.42 #       <|Rincewind|> I have the feeling that I find a few more bugs and border cases during my attempt to fix my patch...
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01.45.46 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: thanks.
01.45.53 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: I think I've seen that the "new startfile detected" screen is also shifted to the right (like rockbox info, runtime was after the icons thing) - haven't noticed earlier
01.46.09 #       <DerPapst> btw... ipod2c removes the 8 byte header?
01.46.20 #       <scorche> linuxstb_: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9088.0
01.47.01 #       <scorche> you might not be able to see it because i seem to remember a talk with Llorean about how it is only for monderators and developers didnt want to see it
01.47.27 #       <linuxstb_> scorche: No, I'm denied that message...
01.48.01 #       <scorche> http://pastebin.ca/377788
01.48.07 #       <scorche> for your entertainment
01.49.08 Quit    FordGT ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01.49.57 #       <linuxstb_> scorche: Thanks...
01.50.02 Quit    linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
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01.52.28 #       <menubit> hmm, the cursor doesn't return to the last file position when from wps and the previous screen was my 900 files of music, its a bit of a drag to have o scroll all the way dpwn to the previous position to continue adding albums from where one was previously
01.53.28 #       <SpAwN> does anyone know how i can make my scroll go faster on my ipod video?
01.53.43 #       <dan_a> I'm curious as to what "some of you mods and admins couldn't even spell GED" means - can anyone explain?
01.53.58 #       <scorche> i was lost as well
01.54.15 #       <menubit> JdGordon ?
01.54.19 #       <scorche> perhaps a reference to the US substitute for diploma test?
01.54.43 #       <SpAwN> i was told a patch would help but i cant find the path i was told(my irc client didnt log it either) :(
01.55.18 #       <SpAwN> *patch
01.56.08 #       <Shaid> dan_a: I think that was a mis-spelt bagder reference.
01.56.10 #       * Shaid shrugs
01.56.10 #       <barrywardell_> dan_a: do you know much about the threading code? Any ideas about my sleep/yield bootloader problem?
01.56.58 #       <preglow> dan_a: done any more work on thumb?
01.57.17 #       <dan_a> barrywardell_: I know a little about it, but not a whole lot - what's the problem again? (Or where is it in the logs?)
01.57.45 #       <barrywardell_> from 00:21 gmt
01.57.48 #       <barrywardell_> today
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01.58.10 #       <dan_a> preglow: No, I'm trying to get RoLo working with the COP patch so I can get that committed at last... I still don't understand why so much doesn't work out of the box, but some things seem to be OK
01.58.33 Join    Ber [0] (n=ber@69.248.210.174)
01.58.38 #       <SpAwN> this channel doesnt happen to have a bot that logs the chan does it?...ive seen a few rooms on here do that
01.58.45 #       <Ber> It has
01.58.52 #       * scorche points at logbot
01.59.09 #       <SpAwN> OoO how can i view it?
01.59.18 #       <Shaid> http://www.rockbox.org/irc/
01.59.18 #       <scorche> the irc link at the side of the page
01.59.20 #       <Shaid> go there.
01.59.25 #       <barrywardell_> dan_a: that's 01:21 according to the logs on rockbox.org
01.59.28 #       <preglow> dan_a: the joy of portalplayer
01.59.29 #       <dan_a> barrywardell_: Why not enable interrupts and then disable them again before booting?
01.59.31 #       <SpAwN> excellent
02.00.18 #       <barrywardell_> dan_a: I guess I could do that. Why do interrupts need to be disabled before booting?
02.00.27 #       <dan_a> preglow: I think this is more GCC than PP
02.00.49 #       <SpAwN> cop patch!
02.01.39 #       <dan_a> barrywardell_: I think that the iPods wouldn't boot with them enabled - I don't know whether that holds true for the other PP targets, I guess some testing is in order
02.01.42 #       <menubit> its a bit of a pain to have to scroll from the begining if one returns to the music collection from the wps, why not have the cursor remember where one was last ?
02.02.02 #       <Doomed_9> isnt there an option for that already
02.02.13 Nick    Doomed_9 is now known as alienbiekr99 (n=doomed@ool-44c126d4.dyn.optonline.net)
02.02.17 #       <menubit> huh, there is
02.02.20 Nick    alienbiekr99 is now known as alienbikerr99 (n=doomed@ool-44c126d4.dyn.optonline.net)
02.02.26 #       <menubit> ?
02.02.27 #       <dan_a> SpAwN: The iPods, H10 and Sansa have two cores - the main CPU and the coprocessor.  The COP patch (FS#5755) is to make use of the coprocessor in Rockbox
02.02.31 #       <alienbikerr99> yeah i forgot the name of the option
02.02.51 #       * menubit looks *again*
02.02.52 #       <barrywardell_> dan_a: what do you think of my solution? it may not be the most correct way to do things, but it works and it's only two lines of code
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02.03.41 #       <SpAwN> dan_a, i was told that might help speed up the scrolling in my ipod video
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02.05.18 #       <SpAwN> hmm i dont think this patched right for me.
02.05.30 #       <alienbikerr99> menubit well i remember the option, i just don't remember what it is, maybe somebody else knows it
02.05.39 #       <SpAwN> bah and the compile yackd
02.05.43 Nick    Ber is now known as HoffmannP (n=ber@69.248.210.174)
02.05.46 #       <HoffmannP> hy
02.05.48 #       <dan_a> barrywardell_: It looks nice and simple.  My problem with it would be that sleep implies yielding, and even if it works at the moment it might lead to some confused developers in the future.  Though I don't suppose they would be any more confused than at the moment!
02.05.59 #       <HoffmannP> anyone there for the ZVM-project?
02.06.02 #       <jhulst> Hi HoffmanP
02.06.05 #       <HoffmannP> Ja
02.06.08 #       <jhulst> I'm here
02.06.09 #       <menubit> i'm not refering to the follow playlist option, i dont use that, i am refering to the fatc that if one is browsing ones music collection, then goes to wps, then returns to the music collection it positions one at the begining of the music list
02.06.11 #       <xenon2434> im here
02.06.14 #       <HoffmannP> Sorry, had problems with my client
02.06.19 #       <dan_a> (Or have I missed that the yielding happens elsewhere?)
02.06.24 #       <HoffmannP> Xenon: ZVM?
02.06.25 #       <barrywardell_> dan_a: at the moment sleep just hangs the bootloader. That caught me out at the start
02.06.39 #       <xenon2434> yup, im here for the ZVM
02.06.42 #       <alienbikerr99> menubit oh, ok, then i dont know
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02.06.50 #       <barrywardell_> the bootloader should really only be one thread anyway, right?
02.06.50 #       <HoffmannP> xenon: yuhup!
02.07.00 Quit    donvito ("AnacønÐa · "If at first you don't succeed, you will never succeed"")
02.07.24 #       <HoffmannP> Ok, lets start the meeting, Here are: jhulst, HoffmannP, xenon2434
02.07.33 #       <dan_a> SpAwN: If you don't have any luck patching, I'm hoping to commit that patch Real Soon Now (although it won't be before Monday)
02.07.41 #       <HoffmannP> What do we already have?
02.07.47 #       <jhulst> Not a whole lot
02.07.58 #       <jhulst> I looked through the wiki and that's pretty much it
02.08.01 #       <SpAwN> dan_a, ahh well thats good to know...that will plan b :-)
02.08.25 #       <jhulst> First off, do you guys have 60 gb or the 30gb?
02.08.34 #       <xenon2434> 30gb
02.08.45 #       <HoffmannP> 30gb
02.08.45 #       <amiconn> dan_a: I would expect a sleep using the microsecond timer to be dead simple, and it would also yield like the full blown version
02.09.02 #       <jhulst> shoot, I have the 60, makes me wonder how much difference there is
02.09.14 #       <xenon2434> well, i dont think they are too different
02.09.21 #       <HoffmannP> probably not too much
02.09.25 #       <xenon2434> there is the usb host function, which has some differences inside
02.09.28 #       <dan_a> barrywardell_: I think so - a quick grep for create_thread doesn't turn anything up
02.09.31 #       <xenon2434> theres also separate firmware
02.09.46 #       <xenon2434> but as far as the actual differences in hardware and firmware, probably not much
02.09.50 #       <HoffmannP> anyone has a collection of files I could put on the wiki?
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02.09.58 #       <dan_a> amiconn: Excellent - barrywardell_: there's your answer, from a smarter man than me!
02.10.15 #       <HoffmannP> Like Firmware?
02.10.36 #       <xenon2434> i mean, we could get the actual firmware files from creative's site
02.10.47 #       <xenon2434> but we havent managed to do anything with them yet
02.11.08 #       <HoffmannP> but a collection of older firmware would be god as well
02.11.16 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: could you elaborate a bit?
02.11.32 #       <HoffmannP> do we now whats on that circuit? Beside the Texas Instrument Chip?
02.11.43 #       <preglow> amiconn: would you kill me if i modified sound.c to enable stuff like sw tone controls for sims? there'll be more #ifdef SIM but i don't think it'll be too unmanagable
02.11.53 #       <HoffmannP> Anyone disconnected the HDD and checked that?
02.12.09 #       <preglow> but it does involve making sim use most of the ordinary functions, not the current stubs
02.12.11 #       <xenon2434> i personally havent, but i know of a few people who did
02.12.15 #       <jhulst> There are some decent sites that have it taken apart, as of yet, I have not done any disassembling of my own
02.12.25 #       <jhulst> I'll look for the sites a second
02.12.53 #       <xenon2434> heres 1: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/02/how-to-disassemble-the-creative-zen-vision-m.php
02.13.01 #       <jhulst> Thats what I was just getting
02.13.19 #       <SpAwN> if anyone has a sec and is willing to help. this is what i get when i try to patch the patch. this file is in the rockbox main folder. it is freshly checked out of svn as of 5 mins ago.
02.13.43 Quit    webguest94 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02.13.45 #       <HoffmannP> xenon: Information collection!
02.13.49 Quit    topbloke ("bye")
02.14.09 #       <jhulst> We have a broken unit that someone is willing to let us have that we can take apart
02.14.18 #       <amiconn> Bah, this new scheduler seems to make a lot of things complicated which where easy before :\
02.14.23 #       <xenon2434> oh, we do?
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02.14.26 #       <dan_a> ZVM people:  One of the most important things after runnung your own code will be knowing how to write to the LCD screen - so information about the LCD controller is very useful
02.14.27 #       <xenon2434> i didnt know that
02.14.31 #       <jhulst> yeah, they posted today
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02.14.44 #       <dan_a> amiconn: Slasheri's still undocumented scheduler?
02.14.49 #       <amiconn> yes
02.15.06 #       <preglow> amiconn: what things?
02.15.09 #       <menubit> could someone close FS feature request 6628 please ?, JdG has incorporated that with latest menu
02.15.22 #       <xenon2434> alright, who has a good scanner and could get good scans of all the hardware?
02.15.39 #       <amiconn> This scheduler copies back and forth between obscure lists and pretty much relies on a working tick
02.15.56 #       <jhulst> I have a scanner and I live 40 minutes from the person with the machine so it would be cheap to ship it here
02.16.06 #       <preglow> amiconn: is relying on a working tick so bad?
02.16.13 #       <xenon2434> oh yah, thats perfect!
02.16.18 #       <preglow> menubit: done
02.16.26 #       <menubit> thanks
02.16.28 #       <jhulst> What do you think HoffmanP?
02.16.32 #       <barrywardell_> preglow: i think it depends on interrupts, which are disabled in the bootloader
02.16.34 #       <HoffmannP> aren't their allready scans out there? what ever, make sure to post the info, it's unnesecary
02.16.35 #       <dan_a> SpAwN: Post any errors up on pastebin.ca and post the link in here - I'll have a look for you
02.16.38 #       <amiconn> In th esimple scheduler sleep was pretty much just a while loop which just switched thread immediately until the end of sleep was reached
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02.16.52 #       <xenon2434> i dont think there are actual scans yet
02.16.55 #       <xenon2434> just random pictures
02.17.00 #       <amiconn> This would easily be replaceable by a loop that waits for a certain usec timer value to pass
02.17.23 #       <jhulst> It doesn't look like we have anything for the screen yet
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02.17.30 #       <SpAwN> dan_a, allright thanks :-)
02.17.32 #       <jhulst> What would you suggest then?
02.17.42 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: still there?
02.17.59 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: how about this: http://pastebin.ca/377820
02.18.09 #       <amiconn> The gigabeat bootloader already defines a sleep() without yield. I don't think that's good,, even though the current bootloaders only use a single thread
02.18.13 #       <HoffmannP> sorry, unnecesseary for other ppl to do the same
02.18.34 #       <barrywardell_> amiconn: it works for me here
02.18.37 #       <preglow> amiconn: which is good, if you ask me. let's keep the bootloaders simple
02.18.55 #       <jhulst> HoffmanP: I don't quite understand what you are saying, we don't have very good scans yet that I have found
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02.19.07 #       <jhulst> Have you seen some somewhere?
02.19.09 #       <webguest69> Hi
02.19.18 #       <webguest69> Can you watch videos on Rockbox?
02.19.20 #       <Soap> SpAwN: kernel on cop needs to be patched with the -p1 option
02.19.30 Part    Mikachu
02.19.31 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: lets do it, but make it public for everybody
02.19.36 #       <jhulst> No problem
02.19.45 #       <Soap> patch -p1 < /YourPathHere/kocop11.2.diff
02.19.47 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: just read about it in rockbox forum
02.19.47 #       <jhulst> As soon as I get them, they will go on the wiki, that was my first plan
02.19.48 #       <amiconn> preglow: I'm not saying bootloaders should use more threads, but it means different code with different behaviour between core and bootloaders, and this difference isn't obvious from the bootloader source
02.19.54 #       <SpAwN> Soap, oOoO ok let me try it with the p1 thanks
02.19.54 #       <amiconn> It's buried in firmware/
02.19.57 #       <preglow> webguest69: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
02.20.05 #       <webguest69> Thanks.
02.20.17 #       <SpAwN> Soap, boohyea it seems to have worked :-)
02.20.24 #       <preglow> webguest69: that applies to all later targets, if you're on archos, something else applies
02.20.36 #       <jhulst> So other than the scans, what are our next steps?
02.20.38 Nick    barrywardell_ is now known as barrywardell (n=barry@host-194-46-254-127.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net)
02.20.43 #       <kickenchicken> webguest69 i dont think video is supported on much rockbox firmwares (iPod 5g)
02.21.12 #       <kickenchicken> oh never mind then
02.21.12 #       <Llorean> kickenchicken: Please, if you don't really know, don't answer. Especially if several people have already answered.
02.21.13 Quit    Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02.21.19 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: dissambeling the firmware, collecting datasheets about the chips, trying to access and reverse enginer the HDD
02.21.27 #       <preglow> amiconn: btw, i  had a question about ten minutes ago
02.21.43 #       <webguest69> Im using iPod Video will it work or not?
02.22.07 #       <preglow> it will work, but slowly
02.22.08 #       * amiconn cannot know in advance how it will look
02.22.09 #       <preglow> just read the page
02.22.09 #       <Soap> webguest69: very slow playback of full-screen videos on that player.
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02.22.31 #       <jhulst> I'll get the scans as soon as possible
02.22.51 #       <jhulst> Someone had said they talked to Creative, has anyone heard about that?
02.22.54 #       <xenon2434> that sounds great
02.23.05 #       <xenon2434> i did at one point, but they were pretty unhelpful
02.23.11 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: Perfect, try to name the chips, to name every little pice of hardware
02.23.17 #       <jhulst> Yup
02.23.27 #       <xenon2434> the person on epizenter said they got an email back saying they refered it to the development department
02.23.30 #       <jhulst> xenon2434: did they give you anything?
02.23.32 #       <xenon2434> and then never got any other reply
02.23.39 #       <kickenchicken> Llorean sorry bout that i read somewhere and then i saw that someone posted a link to a plug in. sorry again ill just keep my keyboard shut
02.23.50 #       <xenon2434> no, i never got anything from them
02.24.11 #       <HoffmannP> Can I put your two names on the wikipage? (send me a pm with the data you want to publish, compare to the data that I published about me)
02.24.32 #       <jhulst> xenon2434: Would you head that angle up? The more info we get from them, the easier it is for us
02.24.50 #       <jhulst> hoffmanP:Already done on my end, I got write access to the wiki as well
02.25.00 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: perfecto
02.25.03 #       <xenon2434> sure, ill try and see what i can get from them
02.25.08 #       <DerPapst> good night at all
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02.25.13 #       <xenon2434> what exactly is it that you need from creative?
02.25.20 Quit    DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
02.25.27 #       <topbloke> how do you play the database once you convert it from itunes?
02.25.42 #       <jhulst> Maybe one of the regulars here could help with xenon2434 question?
02.25.54 #       <topbloke> initalize now or update now?
02.26.36 #       <xenon2434> what is the link to the wiki for the ZVM?
02.26.36 #       <HoffmannP> who does the update update the firmware?
02.26.59 #       <HoffmannP> CreativeZVM, it is linked in the forum
02.27.22 Quit    barrywardell ("Konversation terminated!")
02.27.23 #       <Llorean> kickenchicken: I'm not angry or anything, but we do have a real problem with lots of people thinking false things, so I try to keep new misinformations from leaking out.
02.28.01 #       <xenon2434> alright, i got the wiki up.
02.28.12 #       <xenon2434> im confused though, what exactly are you looking for from creative?
02.28.30 #       <jhulst> xenon2434: As much as possible :)
02.28.42 Quit    kickenchicken ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02.28.50 #       <n1s> xenon2434: basically you'd need documentation of the hardware, like datasheets for the various components and a way to run your own code on the player (for example a way to encrypt firmware so the player will run it) a schematic of the PCB(s) would probably be nice too, basically get as much info as you can, but Creative will most likely give you none of these things
02.29.07 #       <xenon2434> great! i can try at least
02.29.14 #       <HoffmannP> there are no plugins, are there?
02.29.25 #       <Llorean> xenon2434: The single most important thing is figuring out how to get the player to accept your own code, I think. Followed by any information about the various chips in it you can possibly get.
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02.29.53 #       <xenon2434> alright, ill send them an email tonight and get the ball rolling on that
02.29.54 #       <dan_a> jhulst, xenon2434: Datasheets are likely to come from the people who make the components.  You could ask Creative which components they used
02.30.13 #       <kickenchicken> oh its ok thts why i said never mind after what i posted. il just not post anything.
02.30.20 #       * dan_a goes to bed
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02.30.46 Part    menubit
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02.30.58 #       <webguest97> Hey
02.31.13 #       <webguest97> This is favoriteZEN
02.31.34 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: So how is the RockBox for the ZV:M comin?
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02.31.46 Quit    topbloke ("bye")
02.32.05 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: Hey kickenchicken
02.32.13 #       <jhulst> webguest97: we are still figuring out what needs to be done
02.33.05 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: Well I am guessing you need to write just a lil code for the DSP core, reverse engineer one of the .exe firmware updates, which will have most of the code. Take some of the code from the games for the Ipod and just change it to work on the ZV:M
02.33.41 #       <HoffmannP> webguest: we try to be more explecite
02.33.45 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: The AAC audio codec capabilities for SSJ, the OGG and FLAC codec support
02.33.59 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: I am just overviewing what I think should be done
02.34.05 #       <jhulst> webguest97: are you adressing yourself?
02.34.22 #       <webguest97> favoriteZEN: yes I am for I just logged in under guest acct
02.34.49 #       <jhulst> hoffmanP: what experience do you have?
02.34.56 #       <jhulst> I'd like to get an idea of what we have to work with
02.35.15 #       <Llorean> webguest97: Generally, when you put a name like that, it means you're directing that comment at that person. Please, just change your nick, or at least stop doing that.
02.35.33 #       <webguest97> I do not use IRC do I have no idea how to change my nick
02.35.39 #       <HoffmannP> jhulst: php and project management
02.35.51 #       <jhulst> And anybody else who is interested in ZVM, what experience do you have?
02.35.58 #       <Llorean> webguest97: There should've been a prompt at the IRC page before you connected. Or type /nick and then the name you want.
02.35.59 #       <webguest97> I only have experience with basic, but next semester I am taking C++
02.36.11 Nick    webguest97 is now known as favoriteZEN (i=4021c648@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-166bdad6e60e1b70)
02.36.17 #       <favoriteZEN> Alright
02.36.18 #       <jhulst> xenon2434: how about you?
02.36.19 #       <favoriteZEN> okay
02.36.26 #       <xenon2434> unfortunately, i dont have any experience in the way of coding.
02.36.28 #       <Llorean> Just to overview for you people starting a new port:
02.36.32 #       <Llorean> Don't worry about the application code.
02.36.37 #       <kickenchicken> i have none
02.36.41 #       <Llorean> A very large part of Rockbox, including the games, is mostly platform independent.
02.36.42 #       <favoriteZEN> I also do not own a zen yet
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02.36.53 #       <Llorean> You need to adjust the screen dimensions, and the buttons, and those bits are done.
02.36.56 #       <favoriteZEN> I hope to win the contest on epizenter
02.37.12 #       <xenon2434> but i can do anything else that needs to be done (ie contacting creative, organizing info, etc)
02.37.17 #       <Llorean> What you're concentrating on is low level hardware stuff, it's not an easy task, nor a task for non-programmers, generally speaking.
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02.37.55 #       <kickenchicken> i own a zen so i could like be a lab rat. but i have no coding knowledge whatsover
02.38.09 #       <favoriteZEN> is there a whisper function?
02.38.35 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Yes, but you can't do it unless you're a registered user.
02.38.44 #       <favoriteZEN> Okay
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02.38.52 #       <jhulst> Llorean: There are two models of the Zen, a 30 gb and 60 gb, how much of a difference do you think there will be between the two? They run different firmware as well
02.39.16 #       <saratoga> i looked at the Vision:M firmware ages ago to see how feasible a port is
02.39.23 #       <saratoga> i don't even think they use encryption
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02.39.31 #       <saratoga> it looked like raw arm
02.39.37 #       <favoriteZEN> They run different firmware, but the differences I am guessing is slight to nearly NONE
02.39.50 #       <saratoga> so getting code to run probably isn't going to be all that hard compared to most ports
02.39.55 #       <Llorean> jhulst: You can never really guess, you'll have to look at the hardware components and see.
02.40.09 #       <saratoga> probably just a checksum or something
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02.40.26 #       <Llorean> jhulst: In the case of the iPods, for example, the 30 and 60gb Video models have different amounts of RAM and different HDs and that's it.
02.40.27 #       <jhulst> saratoga: do you have anything from when you were looking at it before?
02.40.45 #       <saratoga> no i didn't do anything serious
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02.40.53 #       <jhulst> okay, thanks
02.40.57 #       <favoriteZEN> I belive the Zen 30 and 60 have the same ram
02.41.00 #       <saratoga> just dissassembled it to see what ISA it was
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02.41.16 #       <favoriteZEN> and then getting it to run on the W would also be easier, probably you would just have to adjust the screen res
02.41.41 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Random speculation doesn't do much good. The only way to tell is identifying hardware components.
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02.41.57 #       <Llorean> You (as a group) are going to have to write drivers for all the hardware components anyway.
02.42.07 #       <webguest23> in "Show ID3 info" there is a "Artist" field AND a "Album Artist" field, is this intentional ?
02.42.12 Quit    Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
02.42.33 #       <favoriteZEN> Well I am running on the past info i have collected, I do NOT own a zen therefore I cannont help much in the hardware, but in a couple months I can help in software
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02.43.17 #       <Llorean> webguest23: The two aren't always the same.
02.43.40 #       <favoriteZEN> Llorean: couldn't we just "borrow" the HD drivers from the other updates, or from the toshiba website?
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02.43.50 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: No.
02.44.08 #       <jhulst> favoriteZEN: We realize that you do not have a Zen and that you are trying to be helpful but there are some things that can go a little to far, this is some very low level stuff, it's not like installing an application on Windows
02.44.36 #       <webguest23> Llorean : my tagger doesn't even have that field
02.44.45 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: That would be copyright infringement, at the very least, and as well both not in the spirit of the GPL, but also against Rockbox's policy of not using any pieces from the original firmware
02.44.58 #       <favoriteZEN> alright... total legit here
02.45.03 #       <Llorean> webguest23: It's commonly used for compilation albums.
02.45.13 #       * webguest23 wonders what taggers have a Artist filed and a Album Artist field ?
02.45.34 #       <favoriteZEN> Webguest23: Mediamonkey www.mediamonkey.com
02.45.53 #       <favoriteZEN> If only Creative were like Nueros or Samsung
02.45.58 #       <n1s> pixelma: if you read the logs, a synced version of the lang v2 cleanup patch is now in the tracker.
02.46.05 #       <jhulst> Okay, so whats the game plan, I am getting the scans
02.46.10 #       <Llorean> jhulst: You're going to need to find at least one interested and very dedicated C programmer, and *probably* someone who knows the appropriate assembly (I believe it's an ARM based processor?)
02.46.13 #       <webguest23> keeping up with different apps must be an absolute nightmare
02.46.27 #       <favoriteZEN> It is an arm based processor
02.46.28 #       <favoriteZEN> with a dual DSP core
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02.46.37 #       <xenon2434> im contacting creative and doing my best to get information form them
02.46.42 #       <jhulst> Llorean: I am decent in C
02.46.56 #       <favoriteZEN> Its a Raw arm, with a dual core DSP chip
02.47.10 #       <preglow> dual core dsp???
02.47.13 #       <jhulst> I know assembly, not necessarily the ARM processor
02.47.17 #       <preglow> what kind of dsp chip?
02.47.24 #       <saratoga> TMS320 IIRC
02.47.39 #       <griphiam> I had a quick code question... can someone point me in the direction of where in the code the hard drive access routines are?
02.47.40 #       <preglow> ahh, texas instruments
02.47.42 #       <favoriteZEN> Yes I belive it is a dual core DSP chip
02.47.42 #       <preglow> good luck, then
02.47.44 #       <n1s> preglow: I think it's CPU core + DSP core = 2 cores :-)
02.47.53 #       <saratoga> yeah, the dsp is probably going to be useless
02.47.56 #       <preglow> favoriteZEN: dual core dsp sounds a bit overkill, and i've quite frankly never heard of such a scheme in a dap
02.48.09 #       <preglow> n1s: ah, right
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02.48.19 #       <jhulst> saratoga: why do you say that?
02.48.22 #       <preglow> well, you should hope the main arm core is good
02.48.27 #       <saratoga> because theres no compiler for it
02.48.36 #       <saratoga> i think its an ARM9, so should be plenty fast
02.48.36 #       <jhulst> oh
02.48.36 Quit    FordGT ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02.48.46 #       <preglow> saratoga: clock?
02.48.53 #       <saratoga> i don't know
02.48.54 #       <favoriteZEN> I am getting info
02.49.08 #       <favoriteZEN> I might be a lil wrong, it is a DSP and an ARM each with one core
02.49.10 #       <HoffmannP> sorry, I need to go off, I will read the log tomorrow and post the results...
02.49.16 #       <webguest23> the new menu is nice
02.49.17 Quit    Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
02.49.23 #       <preglow> favoriteZEN: sounds much more likely
02.49.30 #       <favoriteZEN> Yes, sorry
02.49.32 #       <jhulst> HoffmanP: Thanks for your help, talk to you later
02.49.34 #       <favoriteZEN> got a lil mixed up there
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02.49.41 #       <favoriteZEN> see ya hoffmanP
02.49.51 #       <HoffmannP> bye
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02.50.04 #       <favoriteZEN> MS320 DSP
02.50.10 #       <preglow> anyway, if the main arm core is powerful enough, it doesn't matter
02.50.12 #       <preglow> just use that
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02.50.21 #       <preglow> the battery life might suffer a wee bit, but using that dsp is going to be pure pain
02.50.22 #       <webguest23> like the return to wps feature, but have disabled icons, my poor eyes cant see those wee things on my display
02.50.39 #       <jhulst> okay
02.50.47 #       <favoriteZEN> alright, and the Arm core is for audio ONLY
02.50.53 #       <favoriteZEN> the dsp does some audio and video
02.51.07 Part    webguest23
02.51.24 #       <preglow> dsps are really nice things, fast and excellent for audio, but texas instruments aren't too friendly
02.51.34 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: The ARM core can be for anything, it's a microprocessor.
02.51.49 #       <kickenchicken> just curious whats the speed of the cpu? ive ben trying to find this out for a while.
02.51.53 #       <favoriteZEN> TI TMS320DM320 - Dual Core ARM9/C54xx DSP System On Chip
02.52.02 #       <favoriteZEN> Spansion S29GL032M - 4Mb flash memory
02.52.07 #       <favoriteZEN> Infineon HYBL256160AF (x2) - 64Mb RAM
02.52.07 Quit    melden ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02.52.14 #       <favoriteZEN> Philips ISP1583 - USB 2.0/ATA (IDE) controller
02.52.22 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: There is no need to paste everything into the channel
02.52.47 #       <preglow> ahah
02.52.48 #       <preglow> 160 mhz
02.52.50 #       <preglow> that'll do,yes
02.52.54 #       <preglow> that'll do very nicely
02.53.03 #       <preglow> at least when it's arm926
02.53.07 #       <jhulst> Decent enough to handle video as well?
02.53.19 #       <preglow> well, at least some video
02.53.24 #       <favoriteZEN> Apparently from some info on your own forum, the ARM core is not powerful enough to run the video, but it works extemely efficiently for the audio codecs. It also supposedly uses the DSP core during extended playing to save battery life
02.53.36 #       <favoriteZEN> it could do basic video
02.53.42 #       <favoriteZEN> MJPEGs and stuff like that
02.53.56 #       <kickenchicken> hm is that good? since the Zunes and Gigabeats is 542 mhz i think. sorry for the interuption
02.54.01 #       <favoriteZEN> Slideshows maybe
02.54.08 #       <preglow> it would be able to do mpeg/mpeg2/mpeg4 too
02.54.10 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: It could do MPEG-2, though probably not at a high framerate for full screen.
02.54.12 #       <preglow> but not too heavy mpeg4
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02.54.28 #       <favoriteZEN> well the DSP core I'm suspecting is at least on par with the Zune, probably better
02.54.37 #       <preglow> this thing even has an mmu
02.54.40 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Please, don't just randomly speculate, I've asked you that already.
02.54.56 #       <favoriteZEN> Fine, whatever, I am looking on info for the DSP core
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02.55.16 #       <preglow> it can do java too...
02.55.29 #       <webguest78> how has progress been
02.55.30 #       <favoriteZEN> I found something
02.55.37 #       <preglow> arm5t
02.55.40 #       <preglow> very nice core, this
02.55.41 #       <preglow> very
02.56.42 #       <jhulst> Could someone give a little guidance, we are so far going to take it apart, after that we should try reverse engineering the firmware?
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02.57.04 #       <preglow> first of all: do you know if it's brick-safe?
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02.57.07 #       <favoriteZEN> Alright, apparently there is a chip exactly like it in another player. possibly this one would be easier to crack and give us an easier look into the programming of the DSP, or how to program it.
02.57.14 #       <preglow> has anyone ever managed to brick one doing a regular update?
02.57.25 #       <Llorean> jhulst: One of the most important things is to learn if the player has any method for recovering from a bad firmware install, and how to install your own code as 'firmware'
02.57.26 #       <Brandonson112> I haven't yet bricked mine
02.57.32 #       <Brandonson112> check the forus
02.57.37 #       <Brandonson112> forums*
02.57.39 #       <jhulst> preglow: there have been no reports that I know of
02.58.12 #       <preglow> jhulst: there are two courses of action here. either the dap has some kind of crash-proof rom that is always available to flash a dead unit
02.58.18 #       <preglow> jhulst: or you need to connect a unit up with jtag
02.58.29 #       <preglow> this if for when you will inevitably kill your unit with bad code
02.58.52 #       <preglow> then you need to find out how to get code to execute on the device, for this you'll need to analyse a lot of firmware
02.59.02 #       <preglow> in parallel, people should find out exactly what is in the dap
02.59.06 Quit    kickenchicken ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02.59.10 #       <Brandonson112> Llorean: bad firmware can be recovered through the reload firmware option in the recovery mode
02.59.11 #       <preglow> how stuff are connected, etc
02.59.14 Quit    griphiam (Remote closed the connection)
02.59.23 #       <Llorean> Brandonson112: So there is a recovery mode, this is good to know.
02.59.26 #       <favoriteZEN> Alright, according to some statements made by some members of RockBox, and from some other testing, the unit boots off of built in chips, and the hard drive is ONLY for media
02.59.37 #       <Llorean> Brandonson112: So, if you interrupt a firmware flash, you can enter that mode?
02.59.38 #       <preglow> favoriteZEN: no surprise
02.59.52 #       <favoriteZEN> It can start up without a harddrive, so you could run a dual OS
02.59.57 #       <preglow> ghah, this arm core even has the dsp instrucitons
03.00.00 #       <preglow> i'm envious
03.00.06 #       <favoriteZEN> lol
03.00.34 #       <Brandonson112> Llorean: im not sure but by pressing a button and holding while starting up it will enter recovery mode
03.00.37 Quit    jaebird (SendQ exceeded)
03.00.46 #       <favoriteZEN> Yes
03.00.57 #       <Brandonson112> Llorean: i believe its the reset button and the power button
03.00.59 #       <favoriteZEN> you hit the reset and hold the power
03.01.12 #       <Llorean> Brandonson112: The trick is, to get it to load Rockbox, if it doesn't load the firmware from disk every boot, you're going to have to add _something_ to flash, which means you need to be prepared for that something you add to flash to not work.
03.01.36 #       <Llorean> Brandonson112: So you need a method of recovering from flashing a firmware image that prevents the player from running.
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03.01.40 #       <xenon2434> i gotta get out of here guys, if someone could post the log on epizenter so we can all read that would be awesome
03.01.49 #       <Llorean> xenon2434: The logs are all posted at rockbox.org
03.02.02 #       <xenon2434> okay great, thank
03.02.06 #       <favoriteZEN> Could we not get that to test the code on another player that boots off of hard drive?
03.02.07 #       <jhulst> xenon2434: The wiki will now be the main development page as well
03.02.08 #       <xenon2434> night all, talk to you later
03.02.09 #       <Llorean> xenon2434: And all Rockbox discussion should be done in the Rockbox forum thread, not other forum
03.02.11 #       <favoriteZEN> bye
03.02.40 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Do you know of another player that has 100% identical hardware to the Zen Vision M, but boots off the HD?
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03.03.20 Quit    roolku ()
03.03.38 #       <jhulst> Do we know that the Zen doesn't boot off the HD?
03.03.39 Quit    kickenchicken (Client Quit)
03.03.44 #       <favoriteZEN> Well, there is a player, that has the same processing cores as the ZV:M, you could try it on that. It doesnt have a hard drive, its a flash video player.
03.03.44 #       <saratoga> preglow:  yeah the reason I was interested in this chip last year was because of the cpu power, it does something like 6 MACs a clock, plus the ridiculously fast main core
03.04.02 #       <preglow> six macs a clock would be fast even for a dsp
03.04.03 #       <favoriteZEN> Wait
03.04.06 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: That doesn't sound 100% identical.
03.04.24 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Particularly because it has a different storage medium, and one of the things your bootloader will need is a driver for the disk.
03.04.49 #       <saratoga> the DMS320 is supposed to be pretty fast, IIRC its made with MPEG4/H.264 decoding in mind
03.04.52 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: When I said 100% identical, I meant every single piece of hardware is the same, hooked up in the same way.
03.05.11 #       <saratoga> so it has lots of MACs, though offhand I forget the details, and the pdf I found last year on ASU's site is down
03.05.21 #       <saratoga> i just recall being amazed
03.05.30 #       <favoriteZEN> Alright
03.05.41 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03.05.42 #       <jhulst> So in you're opinion, this will be a good port if we get it going?
03.05.43 #       <preglow> saratoga: i'm not an expert, so it might very well be true
03.05.45 #       <favoriteZEN> It has a HDD made by hitachi, which does some Zen hard drives
03.05.48 #       <Llorean> jhulst: Well, supposedly it's booted without a disk in, but I personally don't know.
03.06.14 #       <Llorean> jhulst: I'm just saying that if the firmware isn't on the HD, and loaded into RAM from the HD each boot, you're going to need your very own in-flash loader, which means you need a way to recover from bad code being flashed
03.06.35 #       <jhulst> Llorean: Okay, I understand now
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03.07.06 #       <favoriteZEN> It has the same loading of the ZV:M off of the built in RAM
03.07.06 #       <Llorean> jhulst: My point to favoriteZEN is that you cannot test bootloader code on another machine, unless that machine happens to be internally 100% identical to the one you're testing for.
03.07.37 #       <jhulst> Llorean: I completely agree, I was just wondering if we had proof that it did not boot off the hard drive
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03.08.26 #       <Llorean> jhulst: favoriteZEN mentioned it, but hasn't provided a link. It should be pretty easy to find out though: Is there a system folder or anything (may be hidden or even marked as system files), or a mysterious extra partition that doesn't have a filesystem?
03.08.51 #       <favoriteZEN> It does not boot off of the HDD, the Zen will start WITHOUT a hard drive
03.08.59 #       <favoriteZEN> A member of Epizenter started his without the HDD
03.09.11 #       <Brandonson112> yeah there is flash memory for the firmware on the mb
03.09.13 #       <saratoga> preglow:  looking online, most of the 320 cores seem to have 2 MACs, so I could be remembering wrong
03.10.05 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: That just means at least part of the boot process is in flash.
03.10.13 #       <saratoga> well if it can start without the hard disk, then you should be pretty safe
03.10.22 #       <saratoga> figure out how to run your own ARM code on it
03.10.37 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: For example, the Archoses will run firmware from flash, but if a newer firmware is on the HD load it instead, but not flash it.
03.10.37 #       <saratoga> did any of  those people doing firmware hacks ever get that sorted out?
03.10.45 #       <saratoga> because if so, that'd be a great place to start
03.10.46 #       <favoriteZEN> All of it is
03.10.59 #       <favoriteZEN> It will boot up to the regluar GUI
03.11.09 #       <jhulst> saratoga: I'll check it out, I'm not sure how far they got
03.11.11 #       <favoriteZEN> but as soon as it does, it will go into recovery
03.11.17 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Yes, and as I just said, a full firmware image in flash doesn't mean anything on its own.
03.11.21 #       <favoriteZEN> and ask you to format the hard drive
03.11.43 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Please, try to type in whole sentences, and try to read what people say to you.
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03.11.56 #       <preglow> i'm out
03.12.24 #       <jhulst> preglow: thanks for your help
03.12.24 #       <Brandonson112> im out too
03.12.40 #       <jhulst> Brandonson112: Thanks for your help as well
03.12.45 #       <favoriteZEN> Well, I only have 100k, so it takes about 15 sec, for me to see what I type, and other people type in the chat box
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03.13.04 #       <preglow> jhulst: you're welcome, always fun with new ports
03.14.07 #       <Llorean> jhulst: I think the main things to start with is just going to be getting the datasheets on chips, and coming up with a safe way to try out firmwares. That means finding out what the recovery mode is capable, and whether it's protected from being overwritten by a firmware flash
03.14.42 #       <favoriteZEN> Well, that would be hard to test, without damaging the unit itself
03.15.16 #       <jhulst> Llorean: Someone had mentioned JTAG, I looked it up a little, could you give me an example, I haven't heard of that before
03.15.35 #       <Llorean> favoriteZEN: Well, you either figure out a way to find out, or you find out by trying to recover from a bad bootloader. In the end, you WILL find out if it's possible to have software-based recovery.
03.16.14 #       <Llorean> jhulst: It's a kind of hardware interface, that will let you reprogram the unit from your computer in the case of a bad flash. A recovery and debugging tool. I think. Honestly, I'm not 100% certain myself.
03.16.39 #       <Llorean> jhulst: But in the case of the recovery mode not doing the trick, you'll need to learn more than I know about it, I should say.
03.16.45 #       <toffe> the jtag is also use to debug program direct on the cpu
03.17.08 #       <favoriteZEN> I know that the Zen will run without the hard drive, also if there is a problem on the hard drive, it will ask you to reformat. It also can reload firmware so if you run into a problem you can reload the origional firmware.
03.17.31 #       <favoriteZEN> All in the recovery menu
03.17.32 #       <jhulst> toffe: How do you interact with it? Through the USB connection, is there a site that I can look at
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03.19.04 #       <toffe> you need an interface , the simplest one go through the parallel port, or you can buy some which connect to the usb, after you have to find the software  opencd is a free one but only for arm I think
03.19.44 #       <jhulst> okay, thanks
03.20.06 #       <toffe> do you have good picture of the board ?
03.20.14 #       <favoriteZEN> If you damage the flash chips firmware upload, as long as you dont damage the recovery menu, you can easily revert back to the origional firmware
03.20.27 #       <jhulst> http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/02/how-to-disassemble-the-creative-zen-vision-m.php
03.20.32 #       <jhulst> That is the best we have so far
03.20.40 #       <jhulst> I am working on getting the scanning going
03.22.23 #       <saratoga> looking around online, it seems like this chip or varients of it are used in countless different products and even some research/accademic stuff
03.22.30 #       <saratoga> datasheets must be out there for it
03.22.41 #       <Llorean> saratoga: We have a page in our wiki listing several MP3 players that seem to use it, or variants
03.22.56 #       <Llorean> saratoga: The big problem is the lack of compiler for the DSP part of it, really.
03.22.58 #       <saratoga> might be worth going onto various mailing lists and seeing if anyone there will slip a copy of it to us
03.23.01 #       <jhulst> There is a pdf of the datasheet I believe, but it is backwards
03.23.14 #       <toffe> you have to check first if there is a connector missing (a row of solder point,) on the gigabeat F,S and zune, you can see it easely on the board
03.23.36 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  I'm actually thinking more about how to actually run code on the chip, IE register maps and such
03.24.02 #       <saratoga> theres plenty of people using these chips, so maybe we can get one of them to tell us about it
03.25.36 #       <jhulst> toffe: and that missing connector will be the parallel port?
03.25.52 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Ah, gotcha.
03.25.58 #       <toffe> no , it will be perhaps a jtag or a console port
03.26.44 #       <jhulst> okay
03.29.45 #       <saratoga> "Second generation TMS320 user’s guide" <=== instock in the building next door to me
03.29.52 #       <saratoga> i'm going to walk over and take a look
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03.33.25 #       <jhulst> Llorean: How likely is it that the port will be possible and how hard do you think it will be with this particular device?
03.34.27 #       <Llorean> jhulst: I can't speak for the second part. How hard it is depends entirely on what kind of information you're able to gather about different components.
03.34.58 #       <Llorean> jhulst: As for whether it's possible, as long as you can find a way to make the player load your own code, it's possible. The rest is just a matter of how much you and others can put into getting it done.
03.41.57 #       <toffe> if you search on ebay : zen m vision as is   , you will find some broken one,perhaps you could buy one to open it and work on the hardware
03.42.25 #       <jhulst> We have a broken one that is being donated
03.42.43 #       <toffe> example : this one as a broken lcd  120092908633	
03.42.45 #       <jhulst> The only thing broken on it is the screen
03.42.53 #       <toffe> ok
03.43.49 #       <toffe> Like I said this morning, I bought a tool to take of cpu and memory of the board, if you need it I can do it. So after you can trace all the signal
03.44.38 #       <jhulst> okay,
03.54.10 #       <toffe> you can put this on the wiki , if not already  in : http://pinouts.ru/PDA/zen-vision-dock_pinout.shtml
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03.55.23 #       <jhulst> I had seen that and meant to post it, thanks for the reminder
03.57.47 #       <toffe> I just looked the photos and didn't see anything special, no jtag or console por I think. On the gigabeat, it obvious, you open and see it
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03.58.14 #       <icantusefizz> hellooooo
03.58.19 #       <bonbonthejon> hi
03.58.19 #       <icantusefizz> hello?
03.58.32 #       <pingosimon> Could anyone help with an ipod nano question?
03.58.32 #       <icantusefizz> is anybody out there?
03.58.34 #       <jhulst> toffe: So other than that, how do we make sure it doesn't turn into a brick?
03.59.37 #       <icantusefizz> I have a 5.5G video ipod with the latest build of rockbox and it is not showing any of my AIFF files in the database.
03.59.50 #       <toffe> I don't know :(
03.59.51 #       <icantusefizz> Anybody have a suggestion?
04.00.23 #       <jhulst> Maybe I'd better start buying all the broken ones we can get :)
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04.01.03 #       <Llorean> icantusefizz: And how, exactly, are the AIFF files tagged?
04.01.21 #       <icantusefizz> What do you mean?
04.01.50 #       <Llorean> The 'Database' is a database of metadata. File tags. I'm not even sure there is a tagging format for AIFF, but that's something I'm uncertain of.
04.03.28 #       <icantusefizz> Well, im only on my third day of rockbox, and i set up the database view for my files on my ipod. Every file shows up, except files that are AIFF format.
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04.04.00 #       <icantusefizz> When my ipod is connected to my laptop the AIFF files show up.
04.04.05 #       <Llorean> icantusefizz: You've already said all that. File tagging itself has nothing to do with Rockbox.
04.04.41 #       <icantusefizz> Oh
04.04.47 #       <icantusefizz> What is file tagging then
04.04.57 #       <Llorean> Like ID3 tags for MP3 files
04.05.04 #       <Llorean> It's information that stores Artist, Album, Genre, etc.
04.05.05 #       <icantusefizz> ohhh
04.05.08 #       <icantusefizz> hold on i'll check
04.05.12 #       <Llorean> iTunes stores them in a database.
04.05.20 #       <Llorean> You need to figure out a way to check if the files themselves also have data.
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04.08.22 #       <icantusefizz> hold on i'll brb
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04.09.09 #       <SpAwN> does the itrip work in rockbox?...the thing u plug in and it broadcasts on a radio station
04.09.29 #       <Llorean> SpAwN: The same conditions apply to it as any other accessory.
04.10.00 #       <Llorean> SpAwN: Rockbox supports the line in, and line out, and accessory power pin (I think on this last one)
04.10.09 #       <SpAwN> which im guessing is hit or mmiss
04.10.22 #       <SpAwN> i put it in..the itrip lights up.
04.10.32 #       <SpAwN> but it doesnt broadcast.
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04.11.12 #       <SpAwN> it would be killer if it worked..as 99% of my ipods use is in the car
04.11.17 #       <saratoga> well, i found an ancient book on the TMS320 parts of 15 years ago
04.11.21 #       <saratoga> so maybe not so useful
04.11.28 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Probably not, no. ;)
04.11.48 #       <jhulst> saratoga: shoot
04.12.17 #       <bonbonthejon> SpAwN: does that plug in the top or bottom of the ipod
04.12.32 #       <SpAwN> bonbonthejon, bottom
04.12.37 #       <SpAwN> in the slot.
04.13.06 #       <SpAwN> http://www.podcenter.de/art/pics/griffin/itrip.jpg   <-------- this
04.13.10 #       <bonbonthejon> SpAwN: i have a thing like that, the ipod plugs in to a holder which transmits and charges, rockbox works great with it
04.13.23 #       <SpAwN> bonbonthejon, OoO well thats good.
04.13.41 #       <bonbonthejon> SpAwN: i think it was called RoadTrip
04.13.44 #       <SpAwN> i plug mine in it lights up...but it doesnt show the numbers like it does on the normal os
04.14.30 #       <Llorean> SpAwN: If your thing actually interacts with the Apple_OS, then it's the sort of thing that needs to be uniquely supported
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04.15.15 #       <icantusefizz> ok, so when i look in my ipod (as the drive, not under itunes) and look at where the actual music files are, all the files are 4 letters like CRSG or similar, and it seems like only some of them will show details like song and album in the detailed file view
04.15.27 #       <SpAwN> Llorean, yea i figured it might be like that. :( ..but i wasn sure if the ipod did it or if it was just a out port that the accesory did all the work.
04.15.47 #       <Llorean> icantusefizz: Any of them that won't are likely to show up under the big <Untagged> category in the database then
04.16.27 #       <Llorean> SpAwN: Even then, Rockbox would still have to be able to talk to the accessory to tell it to do all the work, and right now Rockbox can't talk to accessories at all. If they use more than line in, line out, and power, as I said, they don't work.
04.17.03 #       <icantusefizz> What is the easiest way to get them where they belong?
04.17.25 #       <Llorean> icantusefizz: Find a program that can properly add tags, and tag them all.
04.18.20 #       <icantusefizz> ok, do you have any suggestions on what program might be good for that?
04.19.29 #       <Llorean> icantusefizz: No clue. As I said before, I'm not even wholly sure AIFF can be tagged.
04.19.35 #       <Llorean> I'm not at all familiar with the format
04.20.28 #       <icantusefizz> Ok, Thanks alot for your help, I really appreciate it.
04.20.45 #       <icantusefizz> I should be able to figure the rest out now
04.20.47 #       <saratoga> i don't think AIFF can be tagged
04.20.57 #       <saratoga> its not meant for storing music
04.21.10 #       <saratoga> and its kind of silly to u se it with an ipod
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04.21.38 #       <bonbonthejon> saratoga: wasn't aiff an old format like wav
04.21.56 #       <saratoga> yeah its Apple's version of WAV
04.22.05 #       <saratoga> just raw PCM with a header I believe
04.22.14 #       <saratoga> which is why the database doesn't work so well with it
04.22.26 #       <Soap> SpAwN: if it (iTrip) does or does not work, please look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories and tell me everything I need to kow to add it to the table.
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04.22.41 #       <bonbonthejon> icantusefizz: convert aiff to mp3 or something
04.23.02 #       <icantusefizz> will it work with aac?
04.23.10 #       <Soap> bonbonthejon: same thing goes for you and your FM transmitter.
04.23.55 #       <SpAwN> well i got a 30 gig video ipod with the itrip dock. the one that connects to the same place the usb does. and it doesnt work. the light on the lcd screen of the itrip lights up but it doesnt broadcast any music.
04.24.12 #       <saratoga> icantusefizz:  AAC will work, however MP3 would make the most sense
04.24.20 #       <Soap> SpAwN: please look at the page.
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04.24.35 #       <icantusefizz> i just dont want to loose too much sound quality...
04.24.47 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: road trip is already in the table, but i dont know about the audio out
04.24.50 #       <SpAwN> Soap, i did. you asked to tell you everything. so idid.
04.24.51 #       <Llorean> saratoga: A google showed that AIFF can use RIFF tags, which is apparently a standard, though I don't know if that's usual or if we support it.
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04.25.49 #       <hcs> WAV is RIFF, so I'd think we do
04.25.53 #       <SpAwN> its a griffen itrip
04.26.31 #       <hcs> SpAwN: I've been able to use an itrip with rockbox
04.26.57 #       <hcs> SpAwN: it is of the cylindrical variety
04.27.15 #       <SpAwN> hcs, cylindrical variety?
04.27.27 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: i have road trip working with ipod g4
04.27.42 #       <SpAwN> http://www.podcenter.de/art/pics/griffin/itrip.jpg is the exact smae thing i have....only its white apposed to black
04.27.44 #       <icantusefizz> awesome. i will try that
04.28.17 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  yeah but like RIFF in wav i don't know if its actually used
04.28.17 #       <Soap> SpAwN: model #?
04.28.27 #       <saratoga> at least i haven't seen anything that writes them (maybe itunes does thouogh?)
04.28.28 #       <SpAwN> fcc id #?
04.28.31 #       <hcs> SpAwN: yeah, the one I have is a white cylinder, that's what I meant, so I don't know about your specific model, though I would expect it to work
04.28.41 #       <Soap> griffin's model # if you know.
04.29.09 #       <SpAwN> hcs, interesting. i complied from svn tonight. so i have the newest. did you have to do anything special?
04.29.21 #       <saratoga> icantusefizz:  if you want to use lossless, flac is a good choice, if you want to use lossy, MP3 is a good choice since its widely compatable and well supported in rockbox
04.29.22 #       <SpAwN> and hcs what ipod?... i have a 30 gig video
04.29.50 #       <SpAwN> Soap, pav4026 is thw only #'s i see on the itrip
04.29.53 #       <Soap> I was under the impression Griffin was one of the worst about releasing multiple products with the same name, but different model #s is why I asked.
04.30.23 #       <hcs> SpAwN: 60 gb photo, I did nothing special, it only plugged into the headphone jack and remote control thing on front, so the interface to the hardware is probably entirely different
04.30.36 #       <hcs> *remote control thing on top
04.30.49 #       <SpAwN> ah hcs mine goes in the usb port
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04.31.43 #       <Soap> is yours the "iTrip LCD" hcs?
04.33.07 #       <SpAwN> i realy realy wish i could code...
04.33.39 #       <hcs> Soap: it's this one (just checked the fcc ID) http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=1
04.34.01 #       <SpAwN> yea totaly diff then the one i have
04.34.16 #       <SpAwN> consider yourself lucky hcs ;-)
04.34.36 #       <Soap> ahh, the Non-LCD version, cool.
04.34.43 #       <Soap> do you have a wiki name hcs?
04.34.50 #       <hcs> Soap: AdamGashlin
04.35.47 #       <saratoga> who runs archopen anyway?
04.35.52 #       <saratoga> is it the archos people?
04.37.01 #       <Soap> you don't happen to know the model number do you hcs ?
04.38.29 #       <hcs> Soap: no, I don't have the packaging
04.38.30 #       <Soap> and is that jack next to the headphone called the "remote" port?
04.38.48 #       <hcs> Soap: I'm calling it that because I didn't have a better name, I think that's what it's for
04.39.25 #       <Soap> cool
04.39.58 #       <saratoga> the archopen people have teh data sheet for the tms320dsc24
04.40.03 #       <Soap> the one which looks like yours but has an LCD screen is reported _not_ to work.  Glad to add yours to the table.
04.40.12 #       <saratoga> which looks to use the same DSP but a slightly different arm core
04.40.21 #       <saratoga> its probably good enough for now
04.40.28 #       <saratoga> http://www.archopen.org/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=3
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04.41.24 #       <Soap> bonbonthejon and you don't know the model number either of the RoadTrip?
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04.41.54 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: no, i'll get back to you later, I'll get a real picture of it too
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04.42.15 #       <hcs> Soap: would the model number be the beginning of the fcc ID?
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04.42.20 #       <Soap> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/IpodAccessories?rev=1;filename=prod_roadtrip_main.png
04.42.31 #       <Soap> hcs, I doubt it - it's cool either way.
04.42.35 #       <bonbonthejon> bonbonthejon: i just registered on the wiki, if you want to put it in the table
04.42.39 #       <Soap> bonbonthejon: ^that link is the picture I have.
04.42.40 #       <hcs> seems to be of the same form as the iTrip Dock's model number
04.42.50 #       <jhulst> saratoga: Is that the same DSP as the one in the Zen Vision?
04.42.56 #       <Soap> bonbonthejon: it is in the table, I'll add your name if you tell me.
04.43.04 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: JonathanMueller
04.43.08 #       <Soap> hcs: then fire
04.43.15 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: i must have an older version, mine looks different
04.43.20 #       <Soap> hmm
04.46.34 #       <saratoga> jhulst: yes
04.48.07 #       <Soap> bonbonthejon: I added a second RoadTrip entry, and left a space for the photo if you find one (or the model #) you can edit the page or PM me a link and I can do it, I really appreciate it.
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04.49.08 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: do i have write priv?
04.49.27 #       <Soap> you will in 60 seconds
04.49.53 #       <bonbonthejon> Soap: ok
04.50.05 #       <Soap> ;)
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04.51.24 #       <DJ> hello is anyone there that can help me
04.51.37 #       <bonbonthejon> DJ: whats the problem
04.52.07 #       <DJ> ive installed the latest RB for 5G ipod vid
04.52.13 #       <DJ> everything works
04.52.22 #       <DJ> except i cant listen to music
04.52.31 #       <DJ> the files show but no sound
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04.55.16 #       <DJ> heloo anyone
04.55.38 #       <bonbonthejon> DJ: volume is up and it is playing?
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05.05.42 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05.06.50 #       <Soap> I think maybe we can take the silence as a "no"?
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05.21.28 #       <Wotching> Hello
05.21.50 #       <Wotching> Sooo how do I install a .patch file onto rockbox?
05.22.45 #       <bonbonthejon> Wotching: you download the source code, apply the patch, then compile
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05.30.55 #       <Wotching> And what would I use to apply the patch and compile?
05.31.21 #       <bonbonthejon> Wotching: are you under windows or linux
05.31.24 #       <bonbonthejon> or os x
05.31.27 #       <Wotching> Windows
05.31.59 #       <bonbonthejon> Wotching: look in the wiki for directions
05.32.27 #       <Wotching> Cool, thanks
05.32.41 #       <oDesk> how i check md5 of .bz2 file ?
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05.32.50 #       <oDesk> i'm under Windows
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05.33.12 #       <bonbonthejon> oDesk: if you use firefox there is a plugin to do it
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05.33.45 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: yes i'm using FF , thanks i'll search for it
05.35.58 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1164/  "MDHashTool"
05.36.12 #       <bonbonthejon> oDesk: yup, that sounds about right
05.37.36 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: oops, not compatiable with FF2
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05.38.07 #       <bonbonthejon> oDesk: there are probably other programs that will do it
05.39.59 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: this one should work
05.40.05 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3208/
05.40.14 #       <oDesk> bonbonthejon: thanks
05.40.21 #       <bonbonthejon> oDesk: yup
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05.43.26 #       <oDesk> can i ask here about os x86 ?
05.45.30 #       <bonbonthejon> i dont use osx but go ahead and ask
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06.18.35 #       <Drkepilogue> hi
06.19.02 #       <Drkepilogue> i need a little help trying to fix my ipod... it is mroe of a hardware issue rather than software
06.20.04 #       <Drkepilogue> for some odd reason... after i plug my ipod into a usb slot, the ipod is acting weird
06.20.22 #       <Drkepilogue> the HD would make clickin nice, and refuse to go into recovery mode, and would not boot up
06.20.23 #       <Drkepilogue> but
06.20.33 #       <Drkepilogue> after connecting to wall charger it would boot and run
06.20.54 #       <Drkepilogue> i tookapart my ipod, and replace it with a CF card and it gave me an error...
06.21.16 #       <Drkepilogue> but swiching back to the micro HD it would try to boot... but wouldnt
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07.15.31 #       <merwin> Hi
07.16.56 #       <merwin> I've got a couple questions... I've got the Sansa E200R, and noticed that someone cracked the code for it. I tried setting everything up according to the instructions on the wiki. The only thing I changed was using the E200R bootloader as opposed to the E200 one
07.17.13 #       <merwin> I still get the "Failed to load main boot image" message when I boot
07.17.27 #       <merwin> Is support for the e200r working yet?
07.21.49 #       <Llorean> Support for the e200 isn't even working properly yet.
07.22.20 #       <Llorean> It's intended for developers only, overall.
07.22.45 #       <merwin> Yeah, understand that
07.22.59 #       <merwin> just trying to get it to boot, now that there is a bootloader for the e200r
07.24.25 #       <Llorean> Have you followed the progress of R work in the forum thread, or did you just 'hear' that 'the code' was cracked, and decide to just try something?
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07.24.36 #       <merwin> I've been following it, read all of the threads
07.25.00 #       <merwin> From what I understand, all I need to do is flash the e200r bootloader, and extract the latest e200 build to the root of the player
07.25.16 #       <merwin> along with putting the OF.bin that I made from the sansa firmware in the /system folder
07.25.40 #       <Llorean> If you've been following the thread thoroughly, it's mentioned there that R support still isn't working properly.
07.26.07 #       <Llorean> If you intend to help with development, that thread is something you should keep very careful track of.
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07.28.01 #       <daurnimator> JdGordon!
07.28.08 #       <JdGordon> hey
07.29.38 #       <JdGordon> wassup?
07.30.03 #       <daurnimator> just opened a bottle of Carlton
07.30.08 #       <daurnimator> tastes terrible
07.30.18 #       <merwin> Llorean, the current thread only has other people saying they're having the same issue as me... but that the firmware *should* work for an e200r
07.30.33 #       <Llorean> merwin: Which thread, exactly, are you reading?
07.30.44 #       <Llorean> merwin: Because the one I'm looking at has Bagder agreeing that more work needs to be done.
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07.31.31 #       <JdGordon> daurnimator: cartlon which? lite ice? draught?
07.31.39 #       <daurnimator> draught
07.31.50 #       <daurnimator> why would you buy another? :P
07.31.58 #       <Llorean> Don't you two know how to use PMs by now?
07.31.59 #       <Shaid> All CUB beers taste terrible
07.32.24 #       <daurnimator> Llorean: no :P
07.32.37 #       <Llorean> daurnimator: Then it is highly suggested you learn.
07.32.41 #       <JdGordon> draught is stilll beter than VB tho :)
07.33.03 #       <daurnimator> na, its as if it was scraped from the bottle of an old VAT
07.33.13 #       <merwin> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.675
07.33.13 #       <daurnimator> all yeastly
07.33.46 #       <Llorean> merwin: Yes, and that one has Bagder saying that more work is still needed, doesn't it?
07.33.59 #       <Llorean> Or rather agreeing to it, by stating what is likely needed to be done.
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07.37.07 #       <merwin> Llorean, Wyldfire said "Apparently there is more work yet to be done"... I guess Bagder said something after that that could be interpreted as more work needs to be done :)
07.37.26 #       <Llorean> merwin: Could be? He specifically said what needs to be tried...
07.40.12 #       <tstilwe2> has anyone here installed rockbox on their 60G video ipod
07.41.18 #       <tstilwe2> any problem's or comments on installation
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07.44.34 #       <Llorean> falcon21: Well, the Ipod 5G suffers in the same way as all the other portalplayer targets, we've made no secret that support for them is far from ideal so far. Poor battery life, and some issues with processor speed.
07.46.10 #       <amiconn> Hmm, it's probably time to try and get familiar with this new alien rockbox :/
07.46.25 #       <amiconn> :grmbl:
07.47.01 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Just set the default startup screen to the filetree and pretend it's not there.
07.47.06 #       <Llorean> That's mostly what I do.
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08.05.18 #       <merwin> Linus! Not sure if you remember me... from a good 4 or 5 years ago
08.06.32 #       <amiconn> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........
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08.07.09 #       <amiconn> This root menu thing feels cumbersome to me
08.07.47 #       <amiconn> When going there by accident, I can't leave it again with the menu button
08.08.06 #       <rkMerafel> Er
08.08.10 #       <rkMerafel> Sorry to bother everyone
08.08.16 #       <LinusN> the menu isn't something you "leave"
08.08.21 #       <amiconn> And when setting another screen as startup screen, then calling the root menu, the cursor isn't placed on the item I came from
08.08.22 #       <rkMerafel> But could someone help me with this
08.08.34 #       <rkMerafel> I'm not very tech-y.
08.08.43 #       <LinusN> amiconn: that would probably be a nice thing
08.09.13 #       <amiconn> ...so to go back where I came from by accident, I have to navigate the menu
08.09.14 #       <LinusN> rkMerafel: cough it up - what is the problem?
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08.09.37 #       <rkMerafel> Well, I installed rockbox as it said to on the installation page
08.09.43 #       <LinusN> amiconn: i think preselecting the last choice, or the screen you came from, might be a good idea
08.09.44 #       <rkMerafel> On an iriver h10 btw
08.10.02 #       <rkMerafel> And it all worked fine, I've got the funny new menu
08.10.18 #       <rkMerafel> Except it won't go into files or database
08.10.34 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I think maybe 'Menu' should toggle the Root menu. If you came to it from somewhere, a second press should return you there.
08.10.34 #       <rkMerafel> It just says "database is not ready"
08.10.47 #       <Llorean> rkMerafel: It says that for files too?
08.10.51 #       <amiconn> LinusN: It is as soon as the menu was used once, but not when first entering it from a set startup screen
08.10.57 #       <LinusN> Llorean: maybe that isn't such a bad idea
08.11.15 #       <rkMerafel> On files it goes into a directory that has a Text folder and a rockbox app
08.11.20 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I think it's a very friendly behaviour.
08.11.36 #       <LinusN> Llorean, amiconn: i think you're right
08.11.54 #       <Llorean> rkMerafel: That would be the root of your device, probably in the "Supported" show files mode.
08.12.08 #       <Llorean> rkMerafel: Database won't be ready until you use the Initialize option for it as described in the manual.
08.12.09 #       <LinusN> rkMerafel: could it be that the music directory is hidden?
08.12.42 #       <rkMerafel> Er
08.12.57 #       <rkMerafel> "Initialize"?
08.13.11 #       <LinusN> rkMerafel: also described in the manual
08.13.42 #       <rkMerafel> Right
08.14.19 #       <LinusN> what is on your device when you connect it to the computer?
08.14.38 #       <LinusN> are there more folders than the TEXT folder?
08.15.08 #       <rkMerafel> Yeah
08.15.20 #       <rkMerafel> There's like 18GB of music
08.15.44 #       <Llorean> He means, visible in the root of the device, I believe
08.15.47 #       <LinusN> in which folder?
08.15.53 #       <rkMerafel> Music
08.16.10 #       <Llorean> rkMerafel: Is it MTP or UMS?
08.16.12 #       <LinusN> ok, so the "Music" folder isn't shown in the file browser?
08.16.20 #       <rkMerafel> Not on the device, no.
08.16.31 #       <rkMerafel> I've done the "initialize" thing as it said to in the manual
08.16.45 #       <rkMerafel> It says it may take some time, the player is almost full.
08.17.15 #       * LinusN gets some black goo in a cup
08.17.35 #       <amiconn> Huh?
08.17.55 #       <amiconn> Why is there 'Recent Bookmarks' in the H1x0 root menu, but not in the H300 one???
08.18.12 #       <JdGordon> its onyl there if the option is enabled
08.19.25 #       <amiconn> Umm, I'd never expected that...
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08.19.37 #       <JdGordon> hmm... selecting the start screen the first time you enter the root menu isnt so easy :(
08.19.48 #       <rkMerafel> Okay that initialize thing has done the trick
08.19.52 #       <rkMerafel> music is appearing now
08.19.53 #       <JdGordon> only because its always been there... thats bugged me from the start
08.19.57 #       <rkMerafel> I'll check if it plays.
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08.20.55 #       <rkMerafel> Sweet.
08.21.05 #       <rkMerafel> Now I have to get a better skin. This one is teh ugly.
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08.22.27 #       * LinusN laughs at angry_open_source_user in the forums
08.23.11 #       <LinusN> not all people are gifted with brains, apparently
08.23.24 #       <Shaid> quick link?
08.23.43 #       <JdGordon> slow link would be good even  :)
08.23.45 #       <LinusN> the posts are deleted...
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08.23.55 #       <Shaid> oh, that guy
08.24.06 #       <scorche> and int he to be deleted section for our enjoyment =)
08.24.13 #       <LinusN> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9088.0
08.24.24 #       <LinusN> what a total jerk
08.24.29 #       <Shaid> I can't get in there.
08.24.38 #       <Shaid> but I saw what he said saved in a pastebin by someone
08.24.40 #       <LinusN> however, i think at least one of his posts should be answered
08.24.42 #       <scorche> and wrong pn so many points...
08.25.00 #       <scorche> LinusN: soap sent him a blow by blow PM
08.25.18 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I answered him, to an extent, rather more politely than warranted even.
08.25.28 #       <LinusN> where is that reply?
08.25.39 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I PMed him, I'll forward to you.
08.25.57 #       <LinusN> how come we don't reply in public?
08.26.21 #       <scorche> because in public, he is a bloody spammer whose posts get deleted
08.26.28 #       <Llorean> LinusN: Or better yet, http://www.pastebin.ca/378087
08.26.59 #       <LinusN> scorche: yes, duplicate posts should be deleted, but i think at least one of his ramblings should stay, and be replied to
08.27.24 #       <merwin> LinusN: Is there anything I can do to help get rockbox running on the E200R?
08.27.25 #       <LinusN> just sliently deleting it looks like abuse of power to me
08.27.28 #       <Llorean> LinusN: His posts were already removed by the time I returned from dinner. But his posts didn't belong in the Zune thread anyway, which I explained in my response to him.
08.27.34 #       <scorche> not sure why the original one was...i believe saratoga was the one who started
08.27.56 #       <scorche> probably the wrong section was the reason
08.28.30 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I think the fact that his posts were blatantly breaking the specific guidelines for the New Ports forums and were off topic for the thread they were posted in was reason enough for deletion, without beginning to take into account the tone or delivery of his message.
08.28.41 #       <GodEater> can someone give me a rundown on what his beef was (I'm burning with curiousity now)
08.28.49 #       <Llorean> LinusN: But I think my response is a mostly good one, and it does offer to take up proper discussion of any points he feels important in a better place.
08.29.12 #       <LinusN> GodEater: his beef was that we should port Rockbox to Zune, because it is a popularo target
08.29.41 #       <GodEater> ah - a sort of "drop everything else you're doing and listen to me dammit!" post ?
08.30.04 #       <scorche> GodEater: http://www.pastebin.ca/378088
08.30.18 #       <Llorean> GodEater: He also felt we were hypocrites for being against copyright infringement but supposedly doing so ourselves, and a few other things.
08.31.06 #       <LinusN> i think it's bad to leave his accusations unanswered, and only talk about breaking the rules
08.31.58 #       <scorche> they werent unanswered..as i said, soap replied to each point
08.32.08 #       <GodEater> LinusN: I tend to agree there actually - he may be wrong on any number of points - but he wasn't flagrantly abusive IMO
08.32.36 #       <LinusN> scorche: not publically
08.32.54 #       <JdGordon> "I swear you people need to get a life." < the best part :D
08.33.15 #       <Llorean> GodEater: I think stating that many of the admins can't even spell GED (and I resisted the urge to point out any of his spelling errors) is a form of abuse.
08.33.20 #       <scorche> well, if he listens to Llorean, he will post a civilized post int he correct place that we can respond to
08.33.29 #       <Llorean> LinusN: I did invite him to bring it up as a civilized post.
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08.33.42 #       <Shaid> what did he mean by that GED bit?
08.33.45 #       <scorche> no one knows
08.33.53 #       <Llorean> GED is a highschool equivalency exam.
08.34.01 #       <Shaid> ah.
08.34.14 #       <scorche> yeah...i guessed that too, but i still have never heard that phrasing before
08.34.19 #       <Aaron> Sorry to interupt, but are the Archos Jukebox's the only DAP that uses at 2.5 inch drive?
08.34.30 #       <scorche> that rockbox currently supports, yes
08.34.33 #       <amiconn> Hrmm, on the player Stop which goes up file system levels also goes file browser->main menu. I don't think that's good
08.35.12 #       <LinusN> amiconn: it's the same as left-to-root on the other platforms
08.35.19 #       <Aaron> Do you think the 90 dB SNR on the Archos is noticably worse than a DAP with 95 or 96?
08.35.27 #       <amiconn> hmmmmm......
08.35.44 #       <Aaron> And does the SNR affect just the headphone output or also the Line Out of a player?
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08.36.28 #       <Llorean> LinusN: You are welcome to move his post to the general discussion forum and respond to it, of course.
08.36.34 #       <amiconn> Aaron: I don't know which actual daps you are referring to, but e.g. the archos recorder is significantly less noise than e.g. the iriver h100 series
08.36.43 #       <LinusN> Llorean: i'm tempted to do that
08.37.02 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Yes, but on other platforms you can go any level->root with long Left
08.37.20 #       <amiconn> ...which won't be possible with long Stop on player of course
08.37.26 #       <LinusN> amiconn: ah, right
08.37.35 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: fix the player keymap then... just put ACTION_TREE_STOP there instead of ACTION_STD_CANCEL
08.37.49 #       <Aaron> Wait, so the Archos Jukebox sounds better than the h100?  I thought a higher SNR was better
08.37.52 #       <amiconn> ACTION_TREE_STOP would be wrong
08.38.07 #       <Shaid> SNR isn't everything
08.38.15 #       <JdGordon> ... or other way around :p
08.38.43 #       * JdGordon gone... have a good week end all
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08.39.19 #       <Aaron> So a higher SNR is better though right?
08.40.14 #       <amiconn> It usually is, but then don't take all the numbers dap manufacturers tell you for granted
08.41.02 #       <amiconn> I doubt that the H100's real snr comes even near 80dB snr, at least not with the headphone output
08.41.40 #       <Aaron> The h100 has a 80db SNR?  Numbers wise isn't that horrible compared the Archo's JBR?
08.42.12 #       <Llorean> Aaron: There's no reason to fixate solely on the SNR.
08.42.40 #       <Aaron> Okay.  Do any of you know if the sound output of the Archos will be as good as that of an Ipod Video?
08.42.51 #       <scorche> much better IMO
08.43.01 #       <scorche> going by headphone jack
08.43.25 #       <Aaron> Would you reccomend going for the V2 of the Recorder model, or the original?
08.43.43 #       <Aaron> I'm looking at getting the Recorder FM because I think its 40 grams lighter
08.43.56 #       <scorche> i like the v1 mainly for the easier-to-upgrade batteries
08.43.57 #       * LinusN is replying to the flame
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08.44.36 #       <Llorean> I honestly like the look of the v1 better
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08.44.42 #       <scorche> same
08.45.07 #       <Aaron> I'm pretty sure I've seen the V1 with black corner protectors on it which I thought was cool
08.45.14 #       <Aaron> as opposed to the blue ones
08.45.19 #       <scorche> i have 3 of those
08.45.34 #       <scorche> i hated the blue bumpers
08.45.36 #       * amiconn would reallly like if some perl guru would fix buildzip.pl
08.45.46 #       <Llorean> Mine has blue bumpers...
08.45.48 #       <Aaron> You have three JBR's?
08.45.59 #       <scorche> in various states of working, yes
08.47.30 #       <Aaron> Do you guys have any feelings on the buttons of the v1 compared to the v2?
08.47.46 #       <amiconn> backdrops/ should only be included for non-monochrome targets, and eq/* should only be included for swcodec
08.47.48 #       <Aaron> The v1 looks more chinsy but then again I haven't experienced either of them
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08.50.55 #       <LinusN> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9088.0
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08.51.43 #       <bluebrother> Llorean: how is the "root" menu called? I thought it has been agreed to get called the "Rockbox menu" ...
08.51.56 #       <LinusN> "Rockbox" or "Main", imho
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08.52.18 #       <LinusN> i mean "Rockbox menu" or "Main menu"
08.53.05 #       <merwin> LinusN: Nice response to that ass
08.53.06 #       * bluebrother sees the term "root menu" over and over again and thinks this is prone to confusion
08.53.53 #       <merwin> Very polite... probably more polite than necessary :)
08.54.24 #       <amiconn> Hmm, no clean shutdown from root menu possible on recorder
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08.54.36 #       <LinusN> i think we really should reply to such ramblings and not delete them with a "you broke the rules" excuse
08.55.09 #       <LinusN> if not only to be able to link to the post from the GoldenQuotes page :-)
08.55.25 #       <B4gder> what post is this?
08.55.35 #       <merwin> If they keep up with the stupidity however, I don't see a need to keep feeding into their odd anger
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08.55.54 #       <merwin> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9088.0
08.55.56 #       <bluebrother> you're talking about that zune post?
08.55.59 #       <amiconn> bluebrother: "Main root rockbox menu" ;)
08.55.59 #       <Llorean> LinusN: Most rants don't actually get deleted.
08.56.13 #       <Llorean> A lot of them stay around, for a long time.
08.56.43 #       <B4gder> hm, seems the forums and/or my network is dog slow this morning
08.56.53 #       <Llorean> But the New Ports section has generally been treated very strict, so I think the response at the time was in line with the standard for that forum: Non-development posts get trimmed.
08.56.53 #       <GodEater> it's the forums as usual
08.56.55 #       <bluebrother> forums are slow for me too
08.57.01 #       <Llorean> I don't think it was relating to the ranting itself.
08.57.10 #       <merwin> B4gder: Is there anything I can do to help get the e200r firmware working? I assume that you personally don't have one.
08.57.25 #       <LinusN> a public polite answer to a rambling is often effective, as it really shows that the poster is an ass
08.57.44 #       <bluebrother> afk
08.57.56 #       <B4gder> merwin: a first test would be to generate an mi4 without the "full plaintext" trick to see if that works
08.58.29 #       <merwin> B4gder: How to do that?
08.59.08 #       <B4gder> merwin: you need to use mi4code manually
08.59.22 #       <merwin> B4gder: BTW, I used the mi4code to decrypt and then re-encrypt the sansa e200r firmware and it loaded fine
08.59.31 #       <B4gder> ah
08.59.36 #       <LinusN> regarding the name of the root menu, i think "Main menu" is the best. it's short and descriptive
08.59.42 #       <B4gder> merwin: that's very good news
09.00.06 #       <LinusN> hey, even "Menu" would be good
09.00.15 #       <B4gder> merwin: hm, did that use a "blank" DSA signature then?
09.00.22 #       <merwin> B4gder: However, decrypting the e200 firmware and re-encrypting it with the rhapsody encryption did not work. I got the error on booting
09.00.39 #       <B4gder> yes
09.00.41 #       <B4gder> that's expected
09.00.49 #       <merwin> blank dsa signature?
09.00.59 #       <B4gder> it isn't only the encryption that differs, there's also a different "magic" number in the mi4
09.01.25 #       <B4gder> merwin: there's a DSA signature in the mi4 files
09.01.48 #       <B4gder> so I wanted to understand what DSA you used in the re-encrypted one that worked
09.02.15 #       <GodEater> does anyone think it's worth point out to Mr. Angry that *most* open source efforts revolve around the PC platform - where you spend money on hardware only once really. Our project is different because every time someone wants a new port, someone somewhere has to go and shell out at least for the player, and in some cases on esoteric stuff like JTAG connectors and whatknot?
09.02.19 #       <merwin> i just used the following: mi4code decrypt e200r_pp5022.mi4 e200r_pp5022.mi4.decryped
09.02.32 #       <merwin> mi4code encrypt e200r_pp5022.mi4 e200r_pp5022.mi4.rhapsody rhapsody
09.02.38 #       <GodEater> I mean - unless you all feel that's just stating the obvious?
09.02.47 #       <LinusN> GodEater: that's a good point, let's save that ammo for his angry reply :-)
09.02.52 #       <Llorean> GodEater: I think that can be kept in reserve.
09.02.57 #       <LinusN> :-)
09.02.58 #       <GodEater> hahaha
09.03.07 #       <GodEater> you guys play too much poker learly :)
09.03.11 #       <GodEater> *clearly
09.03.13 #       <LinusN> :-)
09.03.26 #       <merwin> B4gder: Is there a different set of commands i should be using?
09.05.04 #       <LinusN> Llorean, GodEater: his forum nick "angry_open_source_user", says it all really. his tone would be different if he was "open_source_developer"
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09.05.48 #       <Llorean> hahaha
09.06.44 #       <GodEater> someone should respond as "angry_open_source_developer!
09.06.52 #       <GodEater> fat fingers again today
09.07.41 #       <B4gder> merwin: try decrypting and stripping the header, then build a new mi4 with the build command
09.07.44 #       <Aaron> Have any of you seen this 8 gig sony DAP coming out?  It has a 30 hour battery life
09.07.46 #       <Aaron> http://www.smarthouse.com.au/iPods_And_Devices/MP3_Players?Article=/iPods%20And%20Devices/MP3%20Players/T3B8N3N8
09.08.01 #       <Aaron> And did anyone ever check out that Trekstore Vibez DAP?
09.08.48 #       <merwin> B4gder, what build options should i use?
09.10.50 #       <B4gder> I don't recall the options off the top of my head
09.11.19 #       <merwin> B4gder: i used the mi4code build e200r.mi4.decrypted e200r.mi4 rhapsody
09.11.31 #       <merwin> B4gder, and the resulting file was smaller than the original firmware
09.11.35 #       <merwin> I'll try to flash it anyway
09.12.16 #       <merwin> wait, the resulting file is bigger than the original firmware
09.12.40 #       <B4gder> how much bigger?
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09.13.03 #       <merwin> original: 5,746,688    new: 5,747,712
09.13.19 #       <merwin> decrypted: 5,746,176
09.13.29 #       <B4gder> did you strip the mi4 header on decrypt?
09.13.33 #       <merwin> yup
09.13.38 #       <B4gder> hm
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09.13.49 #       <merwin> got load main image failed
09.15.28 #       <merwin> do i need to sign it?
09.15.50 #       <B4gder> no, you can't (unless you also patch and install an updated BL)
09.16.01 #       <merwin> ah
09.16.11 #       <merwin> probably not one around yet, huh?
09.16.14 #       <B4gder> and that's never been attempted on an R model
09.16.33 #       <merwin> I suppose a bad flash on that could brick it
09.16.47 #       <B4gder> not that likely, no
09.16.53 #       <B4gder> e200tool is magic
09.16.57 #       <merwin> oh
09.17.05 #       <merwin> hm... is it easy to do?
09.17.06 #       <B4gder> but still
09.17.22 #       <B4gder> we should first make sure mi4code build builds an image of the same size that works
09.17.29 #       <merwin> true
09.17.46 #       <B4gder> I mean, the DSA signing should be the last thing we attempt
09.18.04 #       <merwin> there's some other options in build, like the header and plaintext length
09.18.34 #       <merwin> the file size is exactly 1024 bytes different
09.18.40 #       <merwin> old vs new
09.18.46 #       <B4gder> ... and the mi4 header is 1024 bytes...
09.20.15 #       <merwin> but the stripped/decrypted version is only 512 bytes smaller
09.20.44 #       <B4gder> right, I was wrong the header is 512 bytes
09.20.57 #       <B4gder> the mi4 files are always padded to aligned 1024 bytes
09.21.39 #       <merwin> should i be changing the plaintext length or the header?
09.22.00 #       <merwin> when i build
09.23.17 #       <B4gder> I think you should debug the reason why it builds a larger image
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09.25.49 #       <merwin> the files are completely different
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09.26.59 #       <merwin> and the original version has data in the first ~68 bytes that looks like a header, while the new one barely has any data in that area
09.30.19 #       <B4gder> the new one should too, as the mi4 header is in the first ~68 bytes
09.33.02 #       <merwin> I think the difference i'm seeing is the lack of the signature
09.34.02 #       <merwin> is it supposed to do any actual encryption when i use the build command?
09.34.13 #       <merwin> like, should i use build and then encrypt?
09.34.14 #       <B4gder> good question
09.34.22 #       <B4gder> I don't remember
09.34.54 #       <merwin> it looks like the resulting file after "build" is just the decrypted file with a header and padding at the end (along with some other little changes which i think are probably trivial)
09.35.46 #       <Llorean> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/22/212269/apple-ipod-set-to-swap-white-box-for-black-box-as-lopresti-launches-data-recorder.html
09.35.58 #       <Llorean> I hope 'suitable software' doesn't mean Rockbox. ;)
09.36.08 #       <B4gder> merwin: it also updates the embedded magic numbers
09.36.20 #       * Llorean wonders how those guys got data sheets.
09.36.44 #       <B4gder> Llorean: it probably involves money
09.36.48 #       <Llorean> I'd imagine so.
09.37.05 #       <Llorean> It seems really odd to install alternate software on an iPod to use it as a commercial flight data recorder.
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09.37.17 #       <merwin> B4gder, after encrypting, it still doesn't work :)
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09.39.42 #       <merwin> B4gder: btw, do you happen to remember me? Just curious... i was around often writing code (notably creating the first version of the WPS) about 4 or 5 years ago
09.40.04 #       <merwin> wps has gotten a lot better since then
09.40.18 #       <scorche> Llorean: it sounds like they are just using it as an external HD
09.41.17 #       <Llorean> scorche: Sounds like that to me too.
09.41.29 #       <Llorean> scorche: In which case it'd be really silly to install other software on it.
09.41.44 #       <Llorean> scorche: Then again, iPods are pretty expensive as an option for a low power external HD.
09.41.50 #       <B4gder> merwin: I thought I recognized that nick! ;-)
09.42.10 #       <scorche> and can someone direct me to the "large software developer community" for the dock port, so we can figure out how to use it?
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09.42.33 #       <merwin> B4gder: got a e200r before i left for the Philippines a few weeks ago on a business trip and was really surprised when i found out that it is rockbox-ready
09.42.41 #       <merwin> or, almost ready
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09.43.10 #       <JerryLange> why can i not load the newest current version of rockbox into my simulator?
09.43.32 #       <B4gder> you don't load rockbox "into" any simulator
09.43.44 #       <B4gder> the simulator is rockbox, simulated
09.44.13 #       <dan_a> B4gder, merwin:  I've got to run now, but I've just tried decrypting (and stripping) the Rhapsody firmware to give raw version 1, re-building it, and then decrypting and stripping it again to give raw version 2.  The two raw versions differ, so something is going wrong somewhere...
09.44.41 #       <JerryLange> ok what i want to clarify is i download a current version of rockbox. put it in my simulator folder  D:\Zip Files\Rockbox\ipod-video-sim-w32\archos\.rockbox and i get errors. when its loading
09.45.01 #       <Llorean> JerryLange: That's because the simulator IS rockbox.
09.45.15 #       <Llorean> JerryLange: The rockbox.iriver or rockbox.ipod or whatever file is the same as the simulator executable.
09.45.26 #       <merwin> dan_a: good to know it's just me
09.45.28 #       <Llorean> JerryLange: You have to build a new simulator, you can't just copy a build to it.
09.45.46 #       <JerryLange> ok thats what i figured, but i had to ask
09.46.56 #       <LinusN> JerryLange: the simulator doesn't simulate the hardware, it's just a version of rockbox that runs on your pc
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09.47.44 #       <JerryLange> ok. thanks alot for your help
09.47.55 #       <LinusN> the main purpose of the simulator is to be able to run it in a debugger, for developing
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10.55.18 #       <merwin> I gave in and just bought an E200 to replace my E200R
10.55.33 #       <JerryLange_> woohoo congrats
10.55.49 #       <merwin> There's so many more hackability with the E200
10.56.14 #       <merwin> along with rockbox support
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11.00.29 #       <decayedcell> linuxstb here?
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11.08.04 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Does the fact that you want h1x0 rtc support in configure mean that you changed your opinion regarding mod selection in configure in general?
11.08.25 #       <LinusN> what do you mean?
11.08.46 #       <amiconn> I think that e.g. selecting an (a)dvanced build instead of a (n)ormal one could present a list of mods to select from for all targets
11.09.02 #       <LinusN> amiconn: that would be damn nice
11.09.19 #       <pondlife> Is (A)dvanced a replacement for (D)evel?
11.09.36 #       <LinusN> advanced is advanced and devel is devel
11.09.53 #       <amiconn> (d)evel should probably also present the list of mods
11.10.17 #       <pondlife> Yes
11.10.30 #       <amiconn> LinusN: This could also include the 8MB mod, so no more extra parameter for archos
11.10.42 #       <LinusN> yup
11.10.58 #       <amiconn> I guess the build system would need some adjustment for (a) anyway, so this should be doable
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11.13.27 #       <roolku> LinusN: so does this mean I have to change the configure script again i wrote last night? *sigh*
11.14.21 #       <LinusN> roolku: i wasn't aware that you did that
11.14.27 #       <roolku> IIUC - rtc mod goes under devel ?
11.15.14 #       <LinusN> roolku: apparently not, since there are many non-developers that have the rtc-mod
11.15.15 #       <roolku> LinusN: well, preglow told me I should. :) but it is no biggie, now that I understand how it works
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11.16.40 #       * roolku can see amiconn's point, as the extra option would requied changes to the build script
11.17.12 #       <LinusN> and it paves the way for easier inclusion of other mods
11.18.15 #       <roolku> so should I have a go at creating that advanced builds menu?
11.18.36 #       <LinusN> roolku: would be nice
11.19.13 #       <roolku> I see a problem: how would you create a logf build of a MOD ?
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11.20.44 #       <LinusN> you should be able to select multiple options
11.21.09 #       <amiconn> roolku: [11:09:53] <amiconn> (d)evel should probably also present the list of mods
11.21.30 #       <roolku> amiconn: roolku: apparently not, since there are many non-developers that have the rtc-mod
11.21.46 #       <amiconn> Notive the word *also* in there?
11.21.52 #       <amiconn> *Notice
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11.22.19 #       <roolku> amiconn: that is what I understood initially, but than LinusN said no?
11.22.26 #       * roolku is confused
11.22.42 #       <LinusN> perhaps everything should go under (a)dvanced
11.22.54 #       <LinusN> or (o)options, or (e)xtras or whatever
11.23.01 #       <markun> LinusN, amiconn: the only hardware difference (visible to rockbox) between the Gigabeat F and X is the lack of button lights, maybe they could go into the advanced options as well?
11.23.25 #       <LinusN> markun: can't it be autodetected?
11.23.50 #       <markun> LinusN: I don't know
11.24.07 #       <markun> LinusN: The LED controller is there, but there are just no LEDs connected
11.24.22 #       <markun> (besides the ones for the backlight)
11.24.26 #       <roolku> okay, so I rename the existing (D)evel option to (A)dvanced move the 8Mb build there and add the RTC mod? Is this correct?
11.24.27 #       <LinusN> isn't there any other way of detecting F vs X?
11.24.45 #       <LinusN> roolku: yes, i think that sounds ok
11.24.55 #       <amiconn> markun: If it's desired that they're running the same build these things should be auto detected, otherwise there should be 2 targets. Imho.
11.24.56 #       <LinusN> roolku: perhaps not rename it
11.24.58 #       <markun> LinusN: no easy way I can think of right now
11.25.25 #       <LinusN> roolku: never mind, rename it
11.25.25 #       <markun> ok, perhaps a new build then
11.26.29 #       <markun> amiconn: not that it matters a lot, it's just that the X users will have a button light settings menu which will do nothing
11.27.48 #       <roolku> LinusN: okay, will do. but now some 'real' work
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11.28.16 #       <GodEater> I'm not sure I understand the value in having two builds for the Gigabeat
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11.28.42 #       <GodEater> since the only difference is the LEDs, and the options to fiddle with those are buried in the debug menu somewhere I believe
11.29.28 #       <markun> GodEater: they will not remain there
11.29.55 #       <markun> Gotthardt almost has it finished, but after that didn't show up for a long time. I guess he's just busy.
11.29.58 #       <LinusN> markun: do the F and X versions use the same OF?
11.30.26 #       <markun> LinusN: no, they have separate firmare updates
11.30.32 #       <bluebrother> why not an (a)dvanced option that sets some additional options and goes back to the selection between (n)ormal and (d)evel?
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11.31.28 #       <pondlife> LinusN: H300 bootloader - any chance you could fix up that charging state problem (the "harmful" one)?  Or is it resolved now?
11.31.54 #       <pondlife> Or if you could explain more I could have a look maybe.
11.32.48 #       <LinusN> pondlife: will commit a nice bootloader in a sec
11.32.53 #       <pondlife> Cool!
11.32.55 #       <GodEater> the way the menu works for the LED modes definitely needs attention
11.32.59 #       * pondlife must be psychic
11.33.14 #       <linuxstb> decayedcell: I'm around now.
11.33.19 #       <XavierGr> Linus: Will you release v6 bootloader for H300 too?
11.33.34 #       <XavierGr> I mean with the pathcing utility
11.33.54 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: soon
11.33.58 #       <bluebrother> btw, how much integration of fwpatcher into rbutil has happened?
11.34.21 #       <XavierGr> LinusN: Nice, nice :)
11.34.39 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: All of it I think, but I haven't tested that part (only the ipodpatcher bits).
11.34.53 #       <bluebrother> oh, niced
11.34.56 #       <bluebrother> *nice
11.34.57 #       <XavierGr> Now the next step for H300 would be to have USB OTG
11.35.24 #       <XavierGr> and then I a Slasheri look alike to right the flashing procedures for H300 too
11.35.34 #       <XavierGr> right = write
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11.36.05 #       <GodEater> I saw that Domonoky has added proxy support to rbutil - but isn't there a nice way to grab that info automatically from IE on windows ? And just make rbutil honour the http_proxy environment variable on posix platforms ?
11.36.51 #       <LinusN> GodEater: probably
11.37.10 #       <bluebrother> I would like that values to prefill the proxy settings
11.37.19 #       <bluebrother> so the user could easily change them
11.37.39 #       <GodEater> bluebrother: that's a nice idea
11.38.17 #       <GodEater> I'm having a nightmare building it on linux - I think the makefile is either wrong - or my version of wxWidgets is right out of whack
11.38.20 #       <linuxstb> LinusN: Will the next H300 bootloader have a blank screen?
11.38.33 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: the final one will
11.38.47 #       <LinusN> i can't say i like the backlight off during usb mode
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11.39.08 #       <linuxstb> OK, so you're planning two more releases?
11.39.12 #       <bluebrother> I gave up building on linux as my distro doesn't have wx 2.8 no
11.39.21 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: no, only one
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11.39.43 #       <bluebrother> LinusN: working only on h300 or also on h100 bootloader?
11.39.54 #       <LinusN> also on h100
11.39.58 #       <bluebrother> how about displaying the battery voltage in usb bootloader mode?
11.40.09 #       <LinusN> h100 doesn't have any issues though, does it?
11.40.17 #       <LinusN> bluebrother: it does
11.40.34 #       <bluebrother> oh, it already has? Cool.
11.40.49 #       * bluebrother still runns bootloader 5 on h120
11.43.11 #       <amiconn> I'm on v7 iirc
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11.43.33 #       <bluebrother> has v7 been officially released yet?
11.44.17 #       <LinusN> no
11.44.43 #       <bluebrother> good :) so I didn't miss a release
11.45.34 #       <amiconn> Then I don't rc
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11.45.54 #       <GodEater> ah - you need wxWidgets 2.8, which isn't available for gentoo yet :(
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11.46.41 #       <amiconn> v6 it is
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11.49.33 #       * fejfighter gets very excited at the talk of H300 development, and eagerly awaits
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11.52.05 #       <BigBambi> LinusN: I don't know if you saw, but on the v7 H100 pre-release bootloader that Slasheri did, he removed a sleep that now causes the bootloader to alsways think my remote hold is on, so I can't turn on from remote.  Just a heads up to say it seems that is still important!
11.53.30 #       <merwin> Just curious, is there any news on the AMS front?
11.53.31 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: aha
11.53.51 #       <LinusN> merwin: we are sending a delegation on march 9
11.53.58 #       <BigBambi> I think he said he thinks that removing the sleep means the ADC hasn't had time to settle
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11.54.30 #       <merwin> LinusN: Good to hear! I hope it's as productive as I think it will be.
11.55.01 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: the remote hold is detected with a port pin on the h100
11.55.52 #       <merwin> I'm really surprised that you got cooperation with a manufacturer. Doesn't usually happen
11.56.04 #       <LinusN> merwin: we're not there yet
11.56.20 #       <BigBambi> LinusN: I'm probably misreporting him then (my hardware knowledge is slim), but nonetheless, there is something that messed up hold detection on my remote, and I'm pretty sure he thought it was down to removing a sleep
11.56.36 #       <BigBambi> It works perfectly with v6
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11.56.43 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: i see it now, it looks like the remote type is improperly detected
11.56.50 #       <BigBambi> ah, OK
11.57.16 #       <LinusN> i think pondlife was looking at this
11.57.30 #       <merwin> LinusN: Well, if you get the dev boards, data sheets, and programming info... that should help :)
11.57.35 #       <BigBambi> So has the remote detection changed from v6?
11.57.36 #       <pondlife> The H300 non-LCD remote type is not detected early enough
11.57.46 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: v6 had no detection at all
11.57.56 #       <BigBambi> pondlife: LinusN I have a standard H100 lcd remote
11.58.02 #       <BigBambi> LinusN: OK, that makes sense
11.58.32 #       <pondlife> Well, no detection has taken place when the hold check occurs, so it might affect others
11.58.53 #       <LinusN> correct
11.59.01 #       * XavierGr gets excited with all this bootloader talk :D
11.59.22 #       <pondlife> It could be reordered, but will result in a slower hold detect, and IIRC an ATA initialisation at least.
11.59.24 #       <BigBambi> So at the moment is v6 assuming the original h100 lcd remote and reading buttons on that basis?
11.59.26 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: can you update the IriverBoot page with this, so we don't forget it?
11.59.36 #       <LinusN> BigBambi: yes
11.59.39 #       <BigBambi> LinusN: sure, will do
12.00.09 #       <pondlife> LinusN: Why not just move the hold check down a bit?  Is there a big penalty for this?
12.00.30 Quit    Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12.00.45 #       <pondlife> I did that here and it Worked For Me
12.00.48 #       <LinusN> pondlife: the original idea was to detect hold before even turning on the lcd
12.01.02 #       <pondlife> Yes, but is that very important?
12.01.18 #       <LinusN> but we could just as well delay it
12.01.22 #       <LinusN> no, not important
12.02.28 #       <pondlife> It still displays "Hold detected - shutting down" after all.
12.02.40 #       <LinusN> ok to me
12.02.50 #       <pondlife> Go LinusN Go!
12.03.19 #       <LinusN> i'll commit what i have first
12.03.26 #       <pondlife> OK
12.03.43 #       <LinusN> it's a work in progress, but i think i'd like people to test it before i move on
12.03.53 #       <BigBambi> LinusN: wiki note added
12.04.11 #       <pondlife> I can do that later.  My H300 battery needs to charge a bit first though.  Was down to 3.05V...
12.04.38 #       <pondlife> Not sure I want to flash it without a decent charge
12.04.40 #       <LinusN> pondlife: my upcoming bootloader has charging :-)
12.04.43 #       <BigBambi> I can test H1x0 (with trepidation - I would have no way to fix a bad flash)
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12.04.57 #       <austriancoder> Hi all.
12.05.00 #       <BigBambi> But still, from LinusN I'd be confident!
12.05.04 #       <pondlife> BigBambi: Me too, but it's not been a problem so far
12.05.11 #       <BigBambi> pondlife: exactly
12.05.12 #       <fejfighter> your lucky i can barely reach 3.70 v befor mine dies, new battery for me
12.05.41 #       <pondlife> Mine runs from 4.17V on a full charge, it lasted >18 hours yesterday
12.06.13 #       <BigBambi> I've got a 2200mAh iPod battery in my H1x0, it runs nearly 30 hrs
12.06.14 #       <austriancoder> LinusN: i think i will change my SoC topic from compiled skins to the usb stack... as sansa players need it
12.06.19 #       <pondlife> I was running battery_bench, so should be able to get the exact time after charging
12.06.33 #       <pondlife> This is an original battery
12.06.46 #       <pondlife> Did much better than I expected
12.06.49 #       <BigBambi> pondlife: 18 hrs on original battery is very impressive!
12.07.15 #       <pondlife> This was playing 128kbps MP3, I didn't have much 192 around.
12.07.22 #       <BigBambi> nonetheless...
12.07.32 #       <pondlife> Backlight off, no database....
12.08.40 #       <pondlife> Maybe I got that wrong? I only checked it briefly last night and it still seemed to be reporting 30%... I'll find out the truth later.
12.13.06 #       <markun> austriancoder: you will apply as a student?
12.13.14 #       <pondlife> Hmm, weird battery_bench results..  it goes down to 9% after 7:35, but then jumps suddenly up to 65% at 7:42...  I'm certain it was not touched/charged!
12.13.19 #       <XavierGr> Linus: If you need testers for H100/H300 just give me a call, I am available
12.13.38 #       <austriancoder> markun: jep
12.14.08 #       <XavierGr> pondlife can I see the log file on pastebin?
12.14.21 #       <pondlife> Yep
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12.14.54 #       <merwin> austriancoder: you're going to be working on the usb stack for sansa?
12.15.01 #       <pondlife> XavierGr:  DOH, I think I may have accidentally USB charged it.
12.15.35 #       <XavierGr> hehe
12.15.37 #       <pondlife> Don't worry about it.  That explains the super high runtime too...  Start again :(
12.16.09 #       <XavierGr> well battery_bench can't be wrong about voltage ratings, it captures them from the powermanagement part of rockbox
12.16.12 #       <austriancoder> merwin: mainly.. or on the new player i will get from AustriaMicroSystems.. but i hope to make it very generic and so support for other player should be done
12.16.41 #       <XavierGr> pondlife: also the USB charging should be visible in the logfile
12.16.53 #       <XavierGr> the last flag values are dedicated for that
12.17.03 #       <merwin> austriancoder: Great news. USB support is a good thing
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12.18.29 #       <safetydan> Anyone have a bunch of random oggs lying around?
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12.18.58 #       <safetydan> I'm curious to know how many people have ogg files with non-ISO8601 format date tags.
12.19.02 #       <fejfighter> safetydan: yeah why?
12.19.09 #       <pondlife> XavierGr: It is.  The "C" gave the game away
12.19.12 #       <merwin> safetydan: My whole collection is ogg
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12.19.24 #       <pondlife> My cradle is USBed up, even when not powered
12.19.36 #       <fejfighter> safetydan: haow can we check?
12.19.39 #       <fejfighter> how*
12.20.10 #       <safetydan> fejfighter, use your favourite tag viewing software to see what the date field looks like.
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12.20.29 #       <safetydan> If it's yyyy-MM-dd, or yyyy-MM or even yyyy then we're all good.
12.21.07 #       <fejfighter> i use foobar, it may not be much help, have to grab another tag viewer
12.21.27 #       <safetydan> I thought foobar had a "raw" tag viewer? been a while since I used it
12.21.39 #       <fejfighter> any recomendations for something else?
12.21.40 #       <safetydan> maybe properties?
12.21.56 #       <safetydan> fejfighter, under Linux I'd just use ogginfo, I've no idea for windows
12.22.12 #       <fejfighter> hmm dont have a linux setup yet
12.22.39 #       <fejfighter> i usually have mine in YYYY or YYYY-MM-DD for bootlegs
12.23.12 #       <safetydan> Well that's what most people should have. I'm just trying to find out how common it is for people to do something else.
12.23.41 #       <merwin> if you're in the usa/canada, you're probably going to put dates in mm/dd/yyyy format
12.23.54 #       <fejfighter> i can try something random if u want
12.24.13 #       <Stalwart> rootmenu is awesome feature
12.24.17 #       <bluebrother> *sic*
12.24.17 #       <Stalwart> i should install rockbox again =]
12.24.24 #       <bluebrother> it's Rockbox menu :P
12.24.26 #       <pondlife> Main menu
12.24.38 #       <bluebrother> it is not a root.
12.24.39 #       <safetydan> merwin, which would be bad for what I want to do :) But there's various ogg tag "recommendation" pages out there that say "thou shalt use year-month-day"
12.24.44 #       <fejfighter> oh no the argument has started again
12.24.56 #       <pondlife> It says Main Menu in the setting for Start Screen...
12.25.14 #       <LinusN> it feels good that the main menu is so well received, we usually get heavily bashed for changing the ui
12.25.18 #       * pondlife is going to attempt 1 day without any UI argument
12.25.31 #       <pondlife> That's because it IS good
12.25.36 #       * bluebrother thinks about how to bash that change ...
12.25.38 #       <safetydan> I didn't think I'd like the new menu, but it's grown on me.
12.25.48 #       <LinusN> i love it
12.26.10 #       <bluebrother> the point is that you can still have the old ui feeling. Because it is not a root menu :D
12.26.16 #       <pondlife> lol
12.26.17 #       <fejfighter> i havent had much of a chance but it looks good
12.26.36 #       <bluebrother> if it was designed as a root only menu it would feel different.
12.26.37 #       <pondlife> It almost tempted me to enable icons for the first time in 4 years.
12.26.46 #       <Stalwart> so it can 100% copy apple firmware menu structure?
12.27.00 #       <LinusN> Stalwart: no
12.27.05 #       * perplexity goes of to update from SVN to see what all the fuss is about
12.27.29 #       * pondlife waits for LinusN to commit before doing that
12.27.31 #       * decayedcell is bemused by the ever changing battery % meter on his ipod
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12.27.52 #       * Stalwart would like to have menu and keybinds like in apple os
12.27.58 #       <pondlife> decayedcell: Try the sim if you want an ever changing battery meter ;)
12.28.06 #       <decayedcell> pondlife LOL yeah
12.28.19 #       <decayedcell> it goes from full to empty then back to full again wee
12.28.32 #       <pondlife> I think the sim should pretend it's always charging, or at least drain then charge!
12.28.42 #       <LinusN> pondlife: committed new h300 loader
12.28.48 #       <pondlife> Thanks
12.28.56 #       <LinusN> Stalwart: then use the apple os
12.29.06 #       <Stalwart> apple os doesn't turn off
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12.29.50 #       <BigBambi> Stalwart: I certainly don't want my H1x0 to look like the apple firmware
12.30.38 #       <safetydan> pondlife, the batter meter should cycle from full to empty every few minutes in the sim already
12.30.42 #       <safetydan> battery even
12.31.01 #       <pondlife> It does.  If only real batteries went from 0% to 100% with a bit of usage :)
12.31.11 #       * safetydan feels silly
12.31.17 #       <safetydan> now I actually read what was written :)
12.31.34 #       <pondlife> batter... yum!
12.32.18 #       <pondlife> LinusN: Lots of build errors in the bootloader :(
12.32.36 #       <LinusN> really?
12.32.37 #       <Kasperle> hrm. my ipod is dead and apparently refuses to charge :/ sucks
12.32.39 #       * pondlife might need to make clean
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12.34.24 #       <pondlife> LinusN: My fault...
12.35.22 #       <perplexity> Oh my, that new root menu is lovely.. but the WPS .. oh my eyes! my eyes!
12.36.00 #       <pondlife> perplexity: The default WPS? ;)
12.36.23 #       <pondlife> It's Archos-tastic.
12.36.24 #       <perplexity> I dunno, I've never installed a wps before.. the "burn your retina yellow/orange" one..
12.36.29 #       <pondlife> Ah, no
12.36.42 #       <markun> perplexity: yes, I like it too ;)
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12.37.20 #       * markun votes to make it the default one
12.37.26 #       <pondlife> I've not seen it and it sounds... interesting.
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12.37.46 #       <markun> pondlife: try it
12.37.54 #       <perplexity> Ok, rockbox_default is the one I've always used.. but when I updated something changed it to "Rockboxed" Ouch!
12.38.04 #       <pondlife> Is it Rockboxed?
12.38.17 #       <markun> yes
12.38.37 #       <pondlife> Just trying some bootloader stuff first.
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12.40.04 #       <pondlife> LinusN: Bootloader USB mode still works here.  Anything else I should try?
12.40.14 #       <LinusN> pondlife: charging
12.40.50 #       <pondlife> Should it be USB charging?
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12.41.02 #       <LinusN> yes, but that is not implemented yet
12.41.02 #       <perplexity> When the charger is inserted will it just drop into a charging screen, or will it boot rockbox and allow to resume playback (great for carkit mode) ?
12.41.17 #       <pondlife> OK, good
12.41.23 #       <LinusN> perplexity: i have plans for that
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12.41.48 #       <markun> LinusN: after the root menu went so well.. can you think about any other revolutions that were discussed in the past?
12.41.49 #       * perplexity rubs his grubby little mits together.. having said that, leaving it in the car over summer connected to the charger is what killed my last battery
12.41.50 #       <LinusN> but that will have to wait for EEPROM settings
12.41.55 Nick    gentoo is now known as sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de)
12.41.59 #       <perplexity> Ok, I'm not in any hurry :)
12.42.27 #       <pondlife> LinusN: It displays a flashing "Charging..." and battery reading of 4.21V
12.42.34 #       <LinusN> good
12.42.38 #       <pondlife> Which is higher than I've ever seen reported before
12.42.44 #       <LinusN> it should say "Complete" when it's done
12.43.01 #       <pondlife> Shouldn't take long I assume?
12.43.09 #       <LinusN> could take hours
12.43.25 #       <pondlife> Battery voltage is varying between 4.17-4.19-4.21
12.43.35 #       <pondlife> Hmm, it just completed a charge in the OF
12.44.00 #       <LinusN> it seems to always charge for a while once it has decided to charge
12.44.29 #       <pondlife> OK, but this is just monitoring the hardware, not deciding anything in our code, right?
12.44.34 #       <LinusN> right
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12.45.04 #       <pondlife> And I can boot Rockbox with PLAY.  Good
12.45.25 #       <pondlife> Although that's not displaying a charging status.
12.45.51 #       <pondlife> Haha, battery 99% 0h 3m
12.45.58 #       <pondlife> Not a very big battery
12.45.58 #       <LinusN> lol
12.46.36 #       <pondlife> Configured for 2600mAh, so why such a silly estimate?
12.46.46 #       <LinusN> beats me
12.46.57 #       <pondlife> Overflow?
12.47.05 #       <bluebrother> is it charging?
12.47.14 #       <LinusN> perhaps it fails to estimate when the charger is attached
12.47.24 #       <pondlife> Don't think so.  The battery icon doesn't show charging.
12.47.33 #       <pondlife> Battery now 98% 0h 6m
12.47.34 #       <LinusN> pondlife: how do you see that?
12.48.09 #       <LinusN> if the battery is nearly full, the charging animation isn't visible
12.48.10 #       <pondlife> Doesn't the status bar show charging as 0% - 33% - 66% - 100% graphics?
12.48.13 #       <LinusN> no
12.48.14 #       <n1s> pondlife: it's supposed to show charginf time left with the charger connected
12.48.19 #       <pondlife> Aha
12.48.28 #       <pondlife> I'm stuck in Archos mode.
12.48.29 #       <LinusN> n1s: aha
12.48.38 #       <LinusN> lunch time
12.48.45 #       <pondlife> Haven't really studied this on H3x0
12.48.54 #       <pondlife> So all appears fine
12.49.02 #       <pondlife> And no blue smoke either
12.49.34 #       <LinusN> the smoke has changed from blue to rockbox-orange
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12.50.54 #       <Kasperle> phew
12.51.41 #       <Kasperle> i have noticed that since i use rockbox, the ipod sometimes will only wake up if something is connected to the headphone jack. happened a few times now
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12.52.36 #       <Kasperle> is that a known issue or am i hallucinating?
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13.04.12 #       <quatrix> ey
13.04.34 #       <quatrix> rockbox rocks!
13.05.13 #       <bluebrother> we know :)
13.05.16 #       <fejfighter> hmmm LinusN took all the conversation with him to lunch
13.05.26 #       <fejfighter> we have another convert here
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13.05.58 #       <quatrix> it's not linux based, right?
13.06.05 #       <bluebrother> no
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13.06.36 #       <bospaadje> hi all, is there currently any way to do by-directory or by-album shuffle?
13.07.17 #       <bluebrother> just add a directory to a playlist and shuffle that
13.07.21 #       <fejfighter> hold select on the directory then go playlist> insert>shuffled
13.07.41 #       <GodEater> I think he means play the albums in a shuffled order, but not the albums content ?
13.07.48 #       <bospaadje> GodEater, indeed
13.08.22 #       <GodEater> in which case, I think the answer is no - but don't hold me to that
13.08.34 #       <fejfighter> random folder advance, or am  think an experimantal build?
13.08.45 #       <GodEater> ah - no - you're right - that would work
13.09.01 #       * GodEater awards fejfighter a gold star
13.09.27 #       <fejfighter> takes and puts on chest, grin from ear to ear
13.10.11 #       <GodEater> bospaadje: will that do you ?
13.10.18 #       <bluebrother> always these starred guys ... *shakes head*
13.10.25 #       <bospaadje> that would do it, yes
13.11.15 #       <GodEater> you know where to find it ?
13.11.21 #       <quatrix> is there a way to connect externa storage to an mp3 player via a usb host cable?
13.11.28 #       <BigBambi> bospaadje: You need to run the plugin first (called random_folder_advance) I think, then turn on the option in the settings to enable it
13.11.45 #       <GodEater> quatrix: none of them that run rockbox
13.12.11 #       <quatrix> hmm
13.12.32 #       <BigBambi> quatrix: I think so theoretically using USBOTG, but rockbox doesn't have a USBOTG driver, so players with USBOTG can't currently use it in rockbox anyeway
13.13.22 #       <bospaadje> BigBambi, thanks, found it
13.13.27 #       <BigBambi> np
13.13.49 #       <bospaadje> do i have to update the directory list manually again when i put other music on the player?
13.13.54 #       <quatrix> there are lots of things one can do if it was possible (if there was a driver) to connect usb devices to  a player
13.14.03 #       <quatrix> i.e wifi
13.14.05 #       <GodEater> bospaadje: yes
13.14.13 #       <BigBambi> bospaadje: You can either update it manually or run the plugin again
13.14.16 #       <BigBambi> I think
13.14.21 #       <BigBambi> Easier just to rerun the plugin
13.14.30 #       <GodEater> is the .dat file it generates plain text then ?
13.14.48 #       <BigBambi> quatrix: Only if they have a USBOTG or similar chip
13.14.52 #       <bospaadje> BigBambi, i consider rerunning the plugin manual
13.14.54 #       <bospaadje> :)
13.15.12 #       <BigBambi> That's half manual, real manual is getting dirty in files :)
13.15.34 #       <BigBambi> quatrix: Most USB mass storage devices just have USB slave
13.16.33 #       <bospaadje> it still requires some work :) would be nicer if it generated that directory list dynamically.. but this'll work too
13.17.01 #       <BigBambi> bospaadje: It could, but then it'd have to run the plugin scan everytime you turned the player off or used USB
13.17.12 #       <GodEater> it would be slow as hell
13.17.17 #       <BigBambi> As rockbox has no way to know if you added or deleted music in USB
13.17.21 #       <bospaadje> yeah i figured that
13.17.33 #       <BigBambi> Which, as GodEater said, would be as slow as hell
13.17.58 #       <BigBambi> Slow as hell rather - hell isn't known for being slow (that I know of)
13.18.19 #       <GodEater> ah - but is it endo or exothermic ?
13.18.41 #       <BigBambi> lol, you seen that supposed student answer on it?
13.18.45 #       <Shaid> Depends on whether it's a cold day in hell.
13.18.47 #       <GodEater> naturally ;)
13.18.48 #       <Shaid> ;)
13.19.37 #       <GodEater> I think the only thing missing from that answer was that a person's perception of whether it's endo/exo is entirely subjective ;)
13.19.57 #       <bospaadje> GodEater, and that it's all relative :)
13.20.13 #       <BigBambi> Thermodynamics - not known for being subjective
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13.20.23 #       <GodEater> unless you're an aethyst
13.20.41 #       <BigBambi> Reminds me of that classic Simpsons episode - "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
13.21.01 #       <GodEater> ah yes, when Lisa built a perpetual motion machine
13.21.05 #       <BigBambi> yep :)
13.22.33 #       <BigBambi> Feature request: can someone add a perpetual motion machine to rockbox :)
13.22.53 #       <B4gder> I already did that but had to rip it out since it didn't fit in rombox
13.22.53 #       <GodEater> then you could dispense with having to charge the battery
13.23.16 #       * GodEater recalls someone thinking they didn't need to charge their nano after installing rockbox in the apple forums some months back
13.23.22 #       <bospaadje> lol
13.23.25 #       <BigBambi> haha
13.23.30 #       <GodEater> that must be before you rolled back the change B4gder
13.23.32 #       <GodEater> :)
13.23.58 #       <GodEater> rombox is such a party pooper
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13.33.48 #       <preglow> markun: there?
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13.34.44 #       <markun> preglow: yes
13.34.58 #       <markun> did I break something?
13.35.07 #       <preglow> markun: i've replaced the crossfeed filter and wonder if you'd care to test a patch using it
13.35.19 #       <markun> sure
13.35.22 #       <preglow> i think perhaps the cutoff settings might need some tweaking
13.35.25 #       <preglow> okiedkoe, will make a patch
13.35.43 #       <markun> preglow: hm, for actual listening tests I think jlo is better..
13.36.11 #       <markun> to me most things sound quite ok where he hears huge differences
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13.36.43 #       <preglow> sure, but you can tell me if it sounds like shit or not
13.36.43 #       <preglow> heh
13.37.05 #       <LinusN> preglow: like *a bag* of shit
13.37.27 #       <markun> LinusN: I was thinking of a nice way to use that quote :)
13.37.35 #       <preglow> LinusN: i'm going for the sack of shit sound now
13.37.44 #       <LinusN> lovely
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13.38.30 #       <preglow> markun: http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/new_crossfeed_filter.patch
13.39.44 #       <preglow> shit
13.39.45 #       <preglow> eh
13.39.49 #       <preglow> there's printfs in that patch :>
13.39.54 #       <preglow> new one in a sec
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13.40.59 #       <preglow> there, it should compile now
13.44.06 #       <XavierGr> wow now rockbox deosn't boot the OF while charging while off
13.44.15 #       <XavierGr> though Linus why the backlight is on forever?
13.44.32 #       <LinusN> so you can see what is going on?
13.44.33 #       <preglow> basically, what has changed in the cutoff point for the filter. i don't know exactly where the old one had the cutoff point, but this has it in the midpoint between cross gain and highfreq attenuation
13.44.35 #       <XavierGr> I think it will be best that the backlight will light on button activity
13.44.43 #       <preglow> i don't really know if it's for better or worse
13.44.56 #       <preglow> LinusN: actually tested the alarm yet?
13.45.03 #       <LinusN> preglow: no
13.45.27 #       <XavierGr> Linus: Do you think it would be difficult to make it light up on button activity?
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13.45.32 #       <LinusN> however, that code worked when i tried it half a year ago
13.45.35 #       <XavierGr> or do you think it doens't worth it?
13.45.49 #       <pondlife> The OF keeps backlight on...
13.45.57 #       <XavierGr> nope
13.46.06 #       <n1s> it has a setting
13.46.18 #       <XavierGr> you are wrong pondlife, OF has an option to leave it on forever or turn off after x seconds
13.46.23 #       <LinusN> XavierGr: it shouldn't be too hard to do
13.46.30 #       <pondlife> On H300?  I thought the Charging screen ignored that setting.
13.46.31 #       <XavierGr> though for the bootloader I think that a fixed interval should be defined
13.46.44 #       <XavierGr> no it really works okay on OF
13.46.48 #       * pondlife has hardly used the OF though
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13.48.33 #       <XavierGr> Linus: My point is that when charging for (lets say) 4 hours you will look at it some seconds at most. Why tear down the LCD screen for that long
13.48.43 #       <XavierGr> it is rather a waste of power and usage
13.48.56 #       <linuxstb> What about using the hold switch to turn on and off the backlight?  (I don't have a H300, so feel free to ignore me...)
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13.49.10 #       <XavierGr> hm that is another nice alternative
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13.49.30 #       <XavierGr> though I don't know how more easier would be than backlight on button press
13.49.54 #       <XavierGr> ok how we set the RTC to boot up the player?
13.50.00 #       <linuxstb> I was just thinking that it's both easy to implement, and would give the user the option to permanently turn on or off the backlight.
13.50.00 #       <XavierGr> I can't find any option in the settings
13.51.05 #       <pondlife> Clock plugin?
13.51.13 #       <pondlife> Or similar?
13.51.44 #       <LinusN> we have yet to enable the alarm code on the h300
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13.52.42 #       <XavierGr> ah so I cant test it then
13.52.51 #       <XavierGr> or is it a define that I should switch and then compile?
13.53.10 #       <LinusN> there is more to it
13.53.16 #       <LinusN> preglow knows
13.53.27 #       <XavierGr> ok then I should probably wait more to test it properly
13.53.29 #       <preglow> the code needs merging with the h300 pcf driver first anyway
13.54.01 #       <XavierGr> crap my nice mouse just died?
13.54.02 #       <markun> preglow: crossfeed doesn't work very well anymore for me
13.54.30 #       <preglow> markun: yeah, like i said, i think the cutoffs need adjusting now
13.54.34 #       <XavierGr> false alarm :)
13.54.57 #       <markun> preglow: it's almost as if 'on' and 'off' are switched..
13.55.07 #       <preglow> ?
13.55.28 #       <markun> well, maybe they just both don't do anything :)
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13.55.49 #       <pondlife> LinusN:  Did you see the apology from Onj on the ML? :)
13.56.01 #       <markun> preglow: I'll play with the settings a bit
13.56.11 #       <preglow> markun: i did make it work, though, but god knows what my settings where
13.56.25 #       <LinusN> pondlife: yes :-)
13.56.44 #       <preglow> markun: anyway, the cutoff might need to be higher than before
13.57.05 #       <pondlife> I take it you meant "Wonderful!", not "Wonderful :/"
13.57.15 #       <preglow> hahaha
13.57.17 #       <XavierGr> pondlife: on the normal ml?
13.57.50 #       <pondlife> Yep.  I don't think an apology was needed!
13.58.09 #       <preglow> depends if he usually apologises when someone thanks him
13.58.32 #       <linuxstb> What are people's views about moving the Sleep TImer from the settings into the new System entry in the main/root/rockbox menu?  I've got a patch ready to commit...
13.58.57 #       <markun> preglow: I should get rolo to work on the Gigabeat so I can quickly switch
13.58.58 #       <pondlife> linuxstb:  Why move it to the top level?
13.59.17 #       <linuxstb> pondlife: Because it isn't a setting - the value isn't written to the .cfg file.
13.59.41 #       <linuxstb> It's more an "action" - telling Rockbox to sleep within X minutes, if the user doesn't manually power off before then.
13.59.46 #       <LinusN> i don't really see the sleep timer as a system entry
13.59.59 #       <preglow> i don't think it belongs where it is, but it's not a system entry, no
14.00.01 #       <markun> do we have more of these actions that don't get saved?
14.00.02 #       <pondlife> Doesn't seem important enough for the top level though
14.00.13 #       <XavierGr> ehm? why does he apologizes? Linus said "Wonderful!"
14.00.20 #       <preglow> but a system entry might be better anyway
14.00.27 #       <LinusN> i guess he thought i was sarcastic
14.00.28 #       <linuxstb> I see "shutdown" and "reboot" options maybe being added to system in the future, so the sleep timer fits with those.
14.00.36 #       <pondlife> Yes
14.00.46 #       <LinusN> maybe "System" is a bad name?
14.01.11 #       <markun> "Control"?
14.01.17 #       <linuxstb> It fits in with "system" in my mind for some reason...
14.01.17 #       <pondlife> Would anyone else prefer "Files" to be "File Browser"?  And similar for "Database"...
14.01.33 #       <linuxstb> pondlife: I think it will look ugly with "Browser" everywhere.
14.01.34 #       <LinusN> i like it how it is
14.01.40 #       <markun> pondlife: no me
14.01.42 #       <markun> not
14.01.43 #       <pondlife> OK, just a thought
14.01.52 #       <markun> pondlife: do you like it?
14.01.58 #       <pondlife> Enough with the No's already!!
14.02.01 #       <pondlife> Not much, no!
14.02.07 #       <markun> :)
14.02.13 #       <pondlife> Someone mentioned it, so I thought I'd echo....
14.03.29 #       <linuxstb> So is the general view "no", or "yes, but let's rename system to something else" ?
14.03.48 #       * linuxstb doesn't use the sleep timer, but feels it's misplaced at the moment
14.04.16 #       <markun> linuxstb: it gets my vote
14.04.26 #       <markun> but I also don't use it..
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14.04.47 #       <pondlife> I vote to put Sleep Timer under System, and keep those names
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14.04.57 #       * linuxstb votes with pondlife
14.05.15 #       <preglow> hah
14.05.17 #       <LinusN> fair enough
14.05.36 #       <preglow> i forgot the eq at 24 db lowshelf and got that nice gabber feeling when pressing play
14.06.44 #       <XavierGr> yay 3170 for chopper and I play it first time :)
14.06.58 #       <markun> preglow: ok, switched back to the SVN build: much better..
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14.07.09 #       <XavierGr> somehow I agree with linuxstb and pondlife
14.08.40 #       <XavierGr> Linus: anything else to test with the bootloader except the charging while off?
14.08.57 #       <LinusN> not really
14.09.25 #       <preglow> markun: so you can't hear it working at all?
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14.10.42 #       <markun> preglow: I can hear the volume lowering when I play with the gain settings
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14.11.49 #       <preglow> oh well
14.12.10 #       <markun> preglow: should it behave more or less the same as before?
14.13.00 #       <preglow> markun: no, not really, but the cutoffs should be tweaked to make it closer
14.13.04 #       <preglow> anyway, i guess i'll just drop it
14.13.14 #       <preglow> i don't really want to be bothered with parameter tweaking
14.15.20 #       <DataGhost> can anyone actually explain to me how a memory parity error can occur on unreg, non-ecc memory?
14.15.35 #       <DataGhost> I had that on my laptop yesterday (oh and I wasn't amused)
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14.15.58 #       <DataGhost> now I opened it but it's normal memory :/
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14.17.23 #       <LinusN> i guess it wrongly detected the memory as ecc
14.17.43 #       <preglow> markun: i'll see later, i think jlo's actual design actually used a filter like this
14.17.51 #       <preglow> i'll be going away for the weekend, though, so later
14.18.08 #       <preglow> i really just did this to not have to include several almost identical filters in the source
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14.19.07 #       <markun> preglow: you can probably get the sound the same in the end, don't you think?
14.19.30 #       <preglow> the sound, yes, but the parameters will never be exactly the same
14.19.50 #       <preglow> that is, you can make it sounds the same, but not with the same params as now
14.20.40 #       <markun> aha
14.21.55 #       <markun> preglow: can you try to figure out what the new default params should be then?
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14.26.27 #       <DataGhost> damn
14.26.42 #       <DataGhost> no LinusN I found similar setups with this problem
14.26.56 #       <DataGhost> they all point to radeon x1400 being the problem
14.27.00 #       <DataGhost> guess what card I have...
14.27.15 #       <DataGhost> I'm looking at the disassembly guide now to see if it's easy to replace
14.27.40 #       <LinusN> the card?
14.27.54 #       <DataGhost> NMI errors are completely unacceptable, on a 2000-euro-Thinkpad, after less than 6 months with 5 years of warranty
14.27.56 #       <DataGhost> yes
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14.28.35 #       <preglow> markun: probably, but not now
14.32.01 #       <markun> preglow: ok, no problem. But might be a good idea to do before a commit.
14.32.14 #       <DataGhost> bah, that looks like it's going to need a new motherboard :/
14.32.35 #       <preglow> markun:  i doubt i'm going to commit it if it needs to much tweaking
14.32.46 #       <preglow> the space savings won't pay for the amount of bother
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14.33.42 #       <markun> preglow: but maybe it makes optimizing easier?
14.33.48 #       <preglow> markun: nope
14.33.51 #       <preglow> not in the least
14.33.54 #       <markun> aha
14.34.39 #       <markun> and is it faster? (I saw a div64 was replaced by a fracmul, or is the first one also a multiplication?)
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14.45.23 #       <preglow> markun: very slightly, but it's irrelevant
14.45.27 #       <preglow> anywho, i'm off for the weekend
14.45.28 #       <preglow> laters
14.45.58 #       <amiconn> pondlife, LinusN: While charging, the time estimation shows the expected remaining charging time. So only 3 minutes at 99% is correct
14.46.09 #       <markun> preglow: have fun
14.47.08 #       <markun> amiconn: do you think we should have separate charging curves to calculate the remaining time?
14.48.25 #       <amiconn> There are separate charging curves...
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14.49.38 #       <markun> amiconn: ah, yes! Will have to make one for the Gigabeat.
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14.58.45 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Perhaps the bootloader should set minimum backlight brightness if it keeps the light on all the time?
15.04.00 #       <pondlife> amiconn: Thanks.  Maybe the info screen should indicate "Charging" or similar?
15.04.17 #       <XavierGr> amiconn: I still think that backlight on keypress should be ideal
15.04.48 #       <pondlife> On keypress for a fixed interval (say 20 seconds).
15.05.05 #       <XavierGr> yeah something like that
15.05.21 #       <XavierGr> because it is a waste to have the LCD constantly on
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15.10.09 #       <LinusN> amiconn: i tried that, and it looks promising
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15.13.03 #       <DerPapst> good morning
15.13.24 #       * GodEater wonders idly where he can put a forum poll about developer's choice of linux distro (assuming they use one) without getting shot by Llorean.
15.14.00 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: have you built ipodpatcher for windows on a windows machine?
15.14.07 #       <linuxstb> No.
15.14.17 #       <DerPapst> ah.. i guessed that
15.14.36 #       <DerPapst> because ipod2c doesn't seem to work on windows.
15.14.54 #       <linuxstb> Does it need the O_BINARY flag?
15.15.04 #       <linuxstb> (when opening files)
15.15.08 #       <Domonoky> building ipodpatcher should be possible,
15.15.13 #       <Domonoky> i use it in rbutil
15.15.29 #       <Domonoky> you just have to use the right files :-)
15.15.35 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: not tried yet.
15.15.37 #       <DerPapst> ;)
15.15.41 #       <linuxstb> Domonoky: The Makefile uses ipod2c when embedding the bootloaders - which rbutil doesn't do.
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15.15.58 #       <Domonoky> thats right, i forgot
15.16.09 #       <linuxstb> DerPapst: Is the problem that the .c file is incomplete?
15.18.23 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: "Short read, abortin" is the error
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15.20.15 #       <GodEater> nice colloquial english looking error message there
15.21.03 #       <DerPapst> i missed the g... i'm not good at copy & paste ;)
15.22.07 #       <GodEater> well I was trying to convince linuxstb to go with the AOLese version of ipodpatcher too
15.22.20 #       <GodEater> he bottled out at the last minute though
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15.27.31 #       <linuxstb> DerPapst: It does sound like O_BINARY is the problem then.
15.27.58 #       * B4gder runs debiean on all 4 machines he regularly hacks Rockbox on
15.28.01 #       <B4gder> debian even
15.28.26 #       <tri170391> Anyone know how to update ROLO bootloader on ipod?
15.28.36 #       <linuxstb> ROLO isn't the bootloader.
15.28.45 #       <tri170391> i'm sorry
15.28.46 #       <Domonoky> GodEater: you where the one with the proxy problem with rbutil ?
15.28.47 #       <linuxstb> It's the feature in Rockbox itself to load other firmware files.
15.29.04 #       <tri170391> but my ipod is already installed a version of ROLO
15.29.05 #       <GodEater> Domonoky: see PM
15.29.11 #       <tri170391> and now I want to update it
15.29.22 #       <tri170391> anyone know how
15.29.23 #       <linuxstb> You mean you want to update the bootloader?
15.29.25 #       <Domonoky> some how i dont see the PM.. sorry
15.29.29 #       <tri170391> yeah
15.29.30 #       <GodEater> oh
15.29.36 #       <linuxstb> tri170391: Which ipod do you have?
15.29.43 #       <GodEater> well it failed again even after I set the proxy : Download URL: Can't get input stream (6) reading http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/gigabeat/FWIMG01.DAT
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15.30.03 #       <tri170391> More precise, I wantto use COP build
15.30.11 #       <tri170391> but i'm using old version of ROLO
15.30.14 #       <Domonoky> bad, i have to investigate more into wxWidgets
15.30.36 #       <tri170391> As i said, ipod nano
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15.31.53 #       <linuxstb> tri170391: You didn't say you had a Nano, and for the third time, it's not ROLO you want to update, but the bootloader.  Just follow these instructions - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallationBeta
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15.32.31 #       <linuxstb> Upgrading a bootloader or installing a new one is done in exactly the same way with the latest ipodpatcher.
15.33.05 #       <tri170391> you know anyway to update it without restoring using ipod updater?
15.34.06 #       <linuxstb> tri170391: Please read the last two things I said to you.
15.34.24 #       <tri170391> yes
15.34.27 #       <tri170391> thanks
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15.37.11 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: What do you think would be the best way to add another type of bitmaps to the bitmap build system: (1) Add another set of directories for them, for a total of 6 (instead of 4), or (2) Drop the separation into directories by type, and use a part of the filename instead?
15.37.33 #       <voltagex> do I reflash to use the new bootloader?
15.37.48 #       <voltagex> (for H340)
15.38.30 #       <Domonoky> yes
15.38.37 #       <GodEater> voltagex: unless you know another way to install it on an H340 ? :)
15.38.43 #       <voltagex> ok
15.39.05 #       <voltagex> next question, how do I patch the firmware while I'm on a Mac?
15.40.09 #       <Domonoky> try rbutil from the wiki (no warranty) :-)  there is a mac version of it ..
15.40.10 #       <voltagex> and the room goes quiet
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15.41.12 #       <Domonoky> but be carefull rbutil is very new, (but i tried successfull, patching Firmware on Win and Linux for H1x0)
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15.44.37 #       <voltagex> well if it bricks my player I'll be sad
15.44.42 #       <voltagex> but I doubt it
15.45.02 #       <Domonoky> it checks the sums, sot it will either work, or error out..
15.45.14 #       <Domonoky> sot = so it :-)  damn typing
15.46.17 #       <Domonoky> and if you are not shure you could even md5 sum it again, and check against the sums in the wiki..(a bit overkill :-) )
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15.49.02 #       <voltagex> err
15.49.02 #       <voltagex> err
15.49.08 #       <voltagex> is the bootloader it's downloading
15.49.15 #       <voltagex> the one from SVN?
15.49.45 #       <Domonoky> its the one which is mentioned in the wiki, and hosted on downloads.rockbox.org
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15.50.06 #       <Domonoky> so no SVN, it the LinusN approved bootloader :-)
15.50.09 #       <voltagex> so it's the new(ish) one that I've heard about?
15.51.30 #       <Domonoky> hm, dont know which one you mean
15.52.29 #       <voltagex> 28 Feb 00:06	Linus Nielsen Feltzing 	bootloader/main.c  [diff]
15.52.31 #       <voltagex> 	Better working USB bootloader mode for H300
15.53.41 #       <Domonoky> its not this one..
15.54.16 #       <Domonoky> dont know if LinusN has released this bootloader officially
15.54.46 #       <Domonoky> rbutil uses the last official one which is from 30.6.2006
15.55.22 #       <voltagex> well nvm
15.55.26 #       <voltagex> oooh new menu
15.55.31 #       <Domonoky> and i dont find a newer bootloader in the wiki
15.55.37 #       <voltagex> can we have pretty 3d icons next?
15.55.47 #       <voltagex> like on the official iRiver firmware?
15.56.35 #       <Domonoky> building the Bootloader for HXX0 from SVN is not recommended (big bricking risk), so dont try :-)
15.56.51 #       <voltagex> I just grab the dailies
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15.57.27 #       <Domonoky> jeah, wait with the bootloader until there is a ne official release
15.58.05 #       <XavierGr> voltagex the new bootloader hasn't been released yet
15.58.07 #       <linuxstb> amiconn: What other bitmaps are needed?  Is it likely to grow beyond 6?
15.58.25 #       <voltagex> ok
15.58.40 #       <XavierGr> only those that can compile the bootloader from SVN can get it, though I am discouraging you to compile it yourself if you don't know what you are doing
15.59.06 #       <voltagex> I know how to compile things but yeah I'll stay away
15.59.37 #       <XavierGr> well it is true that if you follow close instructions on the iriverboot page in the wiki you can make the bootloader
15.59.49 #       <XavierGr> but don't whine if something goes completely wrong :P
16.00.34 #       <voltagex> I've already said I'll stay away from it ;)
16.00.53 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Mono and native are already there, I'd need to introcuce 'transparent native'
16.00.56 #       <voltagex> once I get my new MP3 player I'll be putting a JTAG on this
16.01.38 #       <amiconn> It might also grow beyond 6 if someone starts adding built-in bitmaps for greyscale library plugins
16.02.45 #       <voltagex> Yay! Mac OS X has decided my MP3 player is a folder and not a drive :/
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16.03.23 #       <voltagex> any rbutil devs here?
16.03.56 #       * Domonoky is there
16.04.22 #       <voltagex> feature requests: an eject button and a themes downloader
16.04.23 #       * Domonoky is at the moment the only rbutil dev
16.04.39 #       <GodEater> unless you count Cassandra - who is MIA
16.04.48 #       <Domonoky> themes downloader is nearly ready, there is a patch in the tracker..:-)
16.04.55 #       <voltagex> w00t
16.05.00 #       <voltagex> ueberw00t
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16.05.10 #       <Domonoky> i will incorporate it in a few days when its ready..
16.05.15 #       <GodEater> I'd help on rbutil, but the wxWidgets version it uses is not available for gentoo in portage yet
16.05.21 #       <voltagex> only because I can't figure out how to do umlauts on this keyboard
16.05.33 #       <voltagex> GodEater: funroll-loops!!!!!11one
16.05.49 #       <Domonoky> eject would be nice, but i dont know if i can code it :-)
16.05.54 #       <GodEater> they deleted that site - it's only available in the wayback machine now :(
16.06.02 #       <GodEater> which is a shame - I thought it was funny as heck
16.06.11 #       <voltagex> üeber, hmm that wörkëd
16.06.26 #       <GodEater> except that's not am umlaut...
16.06.29 #       <Domonoky> GodEater: build wxWidget2.8 your self :-)
16.06.31 #       <voltagex> Domonoky: eject on posix systems is umount....
16.06.51 #       <voltagex> GodEater: the dot-dot is an umlaut right?
16.06.58 #       <voltagex> ¨
16.07.02 #       <GodEater> Domonoky: I could - but then it would conflict with the 2.6.3 install I already have
16.07.13 #       <Domonoky> jeah, but i would have to issue the "eject" command to the system somehow,, will have to research..
16.07.17 #       <voltagex> GodEater: install it in a VM?
16.07.23 #       <GodEater> voltagex: depends on your language, in some it's a dioresce
16.07.34 #       <voltagex> Domonoky: just umount the location of the player
16.07.51 #       <linuxstb> amiconn: What will your transparent bitmaps look like?  Are you implementing a mask for the 2bpp version?
16.08.00 #       <voltagex> os.popen("umount player_location")
16.08.15 #       <Domonoky> but i have to do it in a portable way :-)
16.08.26 #       <linuxstb> No you don't...
16.08.29 #       <GodEater> voltagex: yep - what's the windows equivalent ?
16.08.42 #       <Domonoky> rbutil runs on win/lin/mac
16.08.43 #       <voltagex> Domonoky: umount for posix, then there's only one troublesome os to handle
16.08.49 #       <Domonoky> :-)
16.09.02 #       <linuxstb> I think we can do that kind of stuff in OS specific ways.  e.g. on Mac, you need to unmount the ipod before installing the bootloader, on Windows and Linux you don't.
16.09.03 #       <GodEater> Domonoky: you could just use ifdef
16.09.36 #       * Domonoky noted "eject" on his todo list :-) 
16.10.26 #       <linuxstb> Also, on the Mac, after you install the bootloader, the Mac will helpfully remount it...
16.10.37 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Yes, transparent bitmaps will use a mask on all non-colour targets.bmp2rb will evaluate (255,0,255) as being transparent to be compatible with the colour targets
16.11.28 #       <amiconn> All rockbox bitmaps will get a small struct header carrying its parameters
16.11.54 #       <amiconn> ...so the bitmap drawing functions will have less parameters
16.12.03 #       <voltagex> :( doesn't seem to be a windblows equivalent of umount
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16.12.46 #       <amiconn> Btw, I pln to add mask transparency for mono targets as well. More flexibility because of less difference in behaviour between targets
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16.12.56 #       <voltagex> well there's an unsupported utility from MS, devcon
16.13.09 #       <voltagex> anyways, as it's 0212 here, I'm off to bed
16.13.33 #       <Domonoky> gn8
16.14.03 #       <voltagex> good luck with rbutil... might be around in 7-8hrs if you need help
16.14.37 #       <Domonoky> thx, testing is always needed :-)
16.14.59 #       <voltagex> oh, and I code some python too as you've seen :) a bit more than hello world
16.15.00 #       <voltagex> lol
16.15.03 #       <voltagex> bye
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16.36.54 #       <linuxstb> amiconn: I'm thinking we could change to having two directories - main and remote.  The -f parameter to bmp2rb would indicate the format (depth and packing) of the LCD, and the magic part of the filename would indicate mono/native/transparent_native/greyscale/etc
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16.58.28 #       <sakuramboo> i just installed rockbox on a 4th gen greyscale ipod and when it loads, i get the "Rockbox loaded." message and it just stops there
17.00.37 #       <markun> sakuramboo: sorry, I have no idea what it could be
17.00.51 #       <markun> how did you install rockbox?
17.01.01 #       <sakuramboo> i installed it last night and everything was working until the battery died on me
17.01.06 #       <sakuramboo> now it doesnt fully boot
17.01.19 #       <markun> and did you recharge the battery?
17.01.26 #       <sakuramboo> its not charging for some reason
17.01.38 #       <sakuramboo> i can plug it in and use it, but it doesnt charge
17.02.02 #       <markun> you can use the apple firmware?
17.02.10 #       <kapez> hmm
17.02.16 #       <sakuramboo> nope, when i try to boot into apples firmware, it reboots
17.02.43 #       <linuxstb> sakuramboo: That's a sympton of the CPU freezing problem.  Try the "no frequency scaling" or "cop patch" unofficial builds from mikeage in the Unsupported Builds forum.
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17.05.30 #       <bonbonthejon> sakuramboo: I confirm, the newest bootloader on ipod doesnt reboot into apple's os
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17.07.03 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: sorry to annoy you again.. but i'm not able to figure out how to get ipod2c to work on windows :-/ sorry
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17.08.42 #       <sakuramboo> now, its not even booting anything
17.08.52 #       <sakuramboo> im just getting to the apple and it just stops
17.09.22 #       <bonbonthejon> sakuramboo: reinstall the bootloader, see if that helps, did you follow the wiki instructions
17.09.30 #       <sakuramboo> yes
17.10.58 #       <linuxstb> Which wiki instructions?  For the 4g, you should follow the old "IpodInstallation" version - using the ipod_fw and ipodpatcher tools.
17.11.26 #       <bonbonthejon> linuxstb: what is wrong wit the newer installer, its worked on mine so far
17.11.51 #       <sakuramboo> www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallation
17.11.55 #       <sakuramboo> thats what i used
17.12.03 #       <linuxstb> bonbonthejon: On the 4g greyscale?
17.13.01 #       <bonbonthejon> linuxstb: yup, i have used the linux 32-bit installer on the installation beta page, and it works
17.13.06 #       <linuxstb> sakuramboo: Then the Apple firmware should start fine - assuming you followed the instructions correctly.
17.13.15 #       <linuxstb> bonbonthejon: And it loads the Apple firmware?
17.13.31 #       <sakuramboo> i followed everything to the letter and when it goes to load the apple firmware, it just reboots
17.13.31 #       <bonbonthejon> linuxstb: no, it doesnt boot the apple firmware
17.14.19 #       <linuxstb> DerPapst: Have you changed line 109 to say O_RDONLY|O_BINARY ?
17.14.36 #       <linuxstb> bonbonthejon: Then you have a different interpretation of "works" to me.
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17.15.25 #       <bonbonthejon> linuxstb: well i guess the issue is the new installer doesnt allow apple firmware, but i dont use it anyway, so all's good
17.17.05 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: ah thanks. seems to work and the file is also comlete
17.17.58 #       <sakuramboo> whats the difference between a rockbox-bootloader-ipod4g.ipod and bootloader-4g.bin?
17.18.39 #       <sakuramboo> if they are both bootloaders, should they follow the same extension naming scheme?
17.19.58 #       <GodEater> sakuramboo: they're for use with different versions of ipodpatcher
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17.20.29 #       <linuxstb> sakuramboo: They are different formats - .bin is a raw binary file, .ipod has a small header which ipodpatcher uses to make sure you're writing the correct bootloader for your ipod.
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17.21.06 #       <sakuramboo> so, when i go to install the .ipod bootloader, i should be using the newer ipodpather, right?
17.21.32 #       <linuxstb> Yes.  But the combination of the new bootloader and new ipodpatcher results in a failure to load the Apple firmware.
17.21.51 #       <sakuramboo> well, gah
17.21.52 #       <linuxstb> It's mentioned on the wiki page and we're still trying to find a solution.
17.22.12 #       <GodEater> did dan_a get any closer to working out where it broke ?
17.22.38 #       <sakuramboo> i think thats the one i used initially, then
17.23.18 #       <linuxstb> GodEater: I think he managed to get it working, but only by hacking the bootloader and using gcc 4.1.1.  We still don't understand the actual problem.
17.23.39 #       <GodEater> gcc 4.1.1 for arm ?
17.27.00 #       <sakuramboo> nope, im still getting to the "rockbox loaded." message and it just stops
17.27.28 #       <GodEater> sakuramboo: so you've now used the old ipodpatcher and the old boot loader ?
17.27.36 #       <nls> should the "root" menu be called Main Menu in the manual or do we have any other suggestions?
17.27.51 #       <sakuramboo> with the old bootloader and with the new bootloader
17.27.56 #       <sakuramboo> both ways result in the same thing
17.28.08 #       <GodEater> which bootloader are you *currently* using though ?
17.28.31 #       <sakuramboo> rockbox-bootloader-ipod4g.ipod
17.28.46 #       <GodEater> so the new one then
17.28.51 #       <sakuramboo> at least, i think thats the one that got installed, the new ipodpatcher doesnt say which one its installing
17.29.05 #       <GodEater> the new ipodpatcher installs the new bootloader
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17.29.15 #       <sakuramboo> okay, then thats the one it installed
17.29.26 #       <GodEater> you should be using the old bootloader, as linuxstb indicated above
17.29.38 #       <sakuramboo> i also tried reloading the rockbox.ipod file and .rockbox folders, doesnt work
17.29.54 #       <sakuramboo> i was using the old bootloader when all this started
17.29.56 #       <GodEater> and you should try using one of the unofficial builds which disables frequency scaling
17.32.40 #       <sakuramboo> rebooting right now, gonna see what happens
17.32.51 #       <sakuramboo> nope
17.33.36 #       <sakuramboo> i just put on the "noscaling" rockbox.ipod file and nothing
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17.36.15 #       <GodEater> linuxstb: any more ideas - I'm stumped ?
17.36.45 #       <sakuramboo> im trying the cop11 build and, nope, still locks
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17.37.17 #       <sakuramboo> whats worse is, it was working fine last night when i first installed it
17.37.59 #       <sakuramboo> but when the battery died, not only could it not recharge it (for some strange reason), but it wouldnt get into the rockbox interface
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17.44.58 #       <nls> pixelma: what do you think about putting the "Main Menu" chapter before "Browsing and playing in the manual as you pretty much will need to deal with the menu the first time you start rockbox?
17.46.57 #       <pixelma> my first impression is that it makes sense now that the "Main Menu" is the first thing a newbie would see - but haven't thought it through entirely
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17.48.32 #       <pixelma> btw... I read your message in the logs. At the moment I'm a bit distracted though :)
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17.51.50 #       <linuxstb> sakuramboo: If I was you, I would restore my ipod to a clean state (i.e. Apple firmware only), and then follow the old ipodpatcher/ipod_fw instructions.
17.52.58 #       <sakuramboo> okay, gonna have to do that when i get home, the original firmware is on that computer
17.53.02 #       <sakuramboo> :/
17.54.31 #       <sakuramboo> to install the original firmware, just 'ipodpatcher -w /dev/sda bootparittion.bin' ?
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17.56.24 #       <linuxstb> On Linux, just do "dd if=bootpartition.bin of=/dev/sda1"
17.58.13 #       <linuxstb> You should also follow the IpodInstallationFromLinux page, not the windows page.
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18.06.13 #       <sakuramboo> well, the installation pages have both linux and windows instructions
18.06.31 #       <sakuramboo> if the linux install is to be different, remove it from the installation page with the other ones
18.09.12 #       <sakuramboo> maybe ill run home and grab the copy of the bootpartition.bin, here im doing this on windows, would the windows version of installing the bootpatition.bin be the same as installing the rockbox bootloader?
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18.10.55 #       <linuxstb_> sakuramboo: The IpodInstallationBeta page is one page for all OSs, but the older instructions are split into three.  You need to use the older instructions on the 4g.
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18.47.01 #       <dp> I just installed rockbox on my ipod video by following the instructions at http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html.  when the ipod rebooted, it's sitting at the black screen with the apple, and has been for several minutes.  is this normal behavior?
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19.22.50 #       <Nico_P> B4gder: would it be a good idea to host a build server on my work computer ?
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19.26.27 #       <markun> Nico_P: are you the guy from the album art patch?
19.26.36 #       <Nico_P> markun: yes
19.27.17 #       <markun> ppeom (korean Gigabeat user) said it only displayed the aa for the first few tracks of his albums
19.27.30 #       <markun> is that a known problem? I told him to talk to you.
19.27.49 #       <Nico_P> markun: it works fine for me with all tracks in my albums
19.28.15 #       <Nico_P> is he on #gigabeat ?
19.28.22 #       <markun> no right now
19.29.02 #       <Nico_P> when he comes back, send him to me, i'll try and help him
19.29.08 #       <Nico_P> maybe he's found a bug
19.29.28 #       <Nico_P> although this patch has already been through quite extensive testing :)
19.29.31 #       <markun> ok, I will do that
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19.29.51 #       <Quelsaruk> hi
19.30.02 #       <markun> Quelsaruk: wow, long time ago!
19.30.11 #       <Quelsaruk> indeed :)
19.30.29 #       <Quelsaruk> maybe... 3 years?
19.30.55 #       <markun> probably not that long :)
19.31.00 #       <Quelsaruk> hehehe
19.31.13 #       <markun> still using rockbox?
19.31.29 #       <Quelsaruk> of course, i still own my archos recorder... the original one
19.31.36 #       <Quelsaruk> with a 30GB HD...
19.31.37 #       <Quelsaruk> :D
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19.33.04 #       <markun> Quelsaruk: what was the last added device when you were still here? The iriver h1xx?
19.33.48 #       <Quelsaruk> h3xxx
19.33.55 #       <Quelsaruk> at least, in early stage
19.34.07 #       <Quelsaruk> i think that there was a problem with the micro
19.34.27 #       <perl|work> Nico_P are you here?
19.34.33 #       <Nico_P> perl|work: yes
19.35.10 #       <amiconn> /me wonders why the Ondio port isn't mentioned at all on http://www.rockbox.org/history.html
19.35.23 #       <perl|work> is it possible to implement "play from certain track in the cue list"?
19.35.38 #       <Quelsaruk> hi amiconn
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19.36.30 #       <Nico_P> perl|work: what do you mean ?
19.36.34 #       <amiconn> hi Quelsaruk
19.36.51 #       <perl|work> like if youd be browsing in cue viewer and could click on any track and start a playback from it
19.37.57 #       <Nico_P> i'll try to see if it seems doable
19.40.46 #       <pixelma> perl|work: easy fix... just split your music files with a program that can use the info from the cue sheet for that ;)
19.42.21 #       <perl|work> i was doing that before Nico_P's wonderful patch
19.43.18 #       <bluebrother> why not present the cue sheet as multiple entries in the playlist viewer / wps and keep it as a single file in the playlist file?
19.44.16 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: because that's much more complicated to do and doesn't apply to files with embedded chapter info (e.g. MP4)
19.44.25 #       <perl|work> pixelma now that we have .cue sheet support i dont see any reasons to split them and i have quite a lot of mp3s/cues
19.44.41 #       <Nico_P> though only cues are supported ATM, i hope to extend the code to support other types of chapters
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19.51.50 #       <markun> Quelsaruk: what brought you here after such a long time? Planning to work on rockbox?
19.52.19 #       <Quelsaruk> hehe... not really... in fact, i came here to talk with LinusN :)
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19.52.34 #       <Quelsaruk> my spare time is nearly... 0
19.52.39 #       <sakuramboo> what might it mean if when i go into diagnostic mode on my 4g ipod, that on some of the tests, it stops responding?
19.52.45 #       <Quelsaruk> :(
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19.53.31 #       <Quelsaruk> markun: also, i don't even know how could i help rockbox right now
19.56.56 #       <markun> me neither (although I have quite a todo list :)
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20.02.01 #       <Quelsaruk> :)
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20.16.50 #       <bluebrother> Nico_P: why doesn't that work for files with embedded chapter information? Why not present that files as multiple entries too?
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20.19.19 #       <bluebrother> ah, ok. That is a bit problematic if the chapter information isn't loaded
20.21.28 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: yes, it would mean reading metadata for those files just to display them in the browser... and also personnally i wouldn't want my podcasts or cuesheets to appear as a buch of files
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20.57.07 #       <moll> Hi. I'm trying to build the debug build for h140 and get "debug.c:31:19: warning: "SH3704" is not defined". Any ideas?
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20.57.28 #       <moll> Anybody here?
20.58.09 #       <moll> I've searched for SH3704 and found nothing.
20.58.24 #       <amiconn> It's a typo...
20.58.49 #       <moll> amiconn: how should it read then?
20.58.55 #       <amiconn> SH7034
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20.59.24 #       <amiconn> But for h1x0 it doesn't matter. Of course the typo should still be fixed
20.59.30 #       <moll> And where should it be corrected? In debug.c or in some config script?
20.59.53 #       <moll> amiconn: could you do this?
21.00.29 #       <moll> amiconn: i.e. is it an error in #define or in #if?
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21.01.24 #       <sakuramboo> omg, i think i know my problem, the battery is some how not allowing the rockbox interface to start
21.01.56 #       <sakuramboo> i just unplugged the battery, plugged in the usb power adaptor and the interface started for a split second, then said the battery is dead, recharging and shut down
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21.01.58 #       <moll> amiconn: it dows matter. When linking, I get /apps/main.c:334: undefined reference to `debug_init'
21.02.05 #       <moll> *does
21.02.43 #       <webguest00> er, hi
21.03.12 #       <sakuramboo> ahhhh, now its working
21.03.15 #       <webguest00> I'm using M irc, but I can't seem to connect to #rocbox..
21.03.16 #       <amiconn> On-target debug builds are only possible for disk-based archoses and for the iFP7xx
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21.08.04 #       <sakuramboo> it seems that the bleeding version has a problem working when things are plugged to it
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21.10.45 #       <Nico_P> perl|work: ther's a problem in your suggestion... how do i know whch audio file to open, based on the cue file name ? i don't know what to replace ".cue" with...
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21.11.19 #       <Nico_P> audio -> cue is simple, but cue -> audio isn't
21.11.45 #       <timberwolf19> er, hi
21.12.02 #       <Nico_P> that's because of the choice that was made of ignoring the "FILE" entry in the cuesheet and assuming the cue and the audio file have the same name
21.13.19 #       <timberwolf19> how long does the ipod video last on battery power? I heard its not too good...will it get better any time soon?
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21.14.21 #       <Soap> timberwolf19: there is an IpodRuntime wiki page
21.14.31 #       <Soap> look under IpodPort in the main wiki menu.
21.14.54 #       <Soap> as for the second half of your question...nobody can predict that.
21.15.34 #       <timberwolf19> ok, thanks
21.15.35 #       <Soap> Improvements like that tend to come either as breakthroughs, or as avalanches, but there is no reason to believe progress is on the near horizon.
21.15.55 #       <timberwolf19> ah...wow, these battery runtimes are between 5 and 10 hours?
21.16.36 #       <timberwolf19> if I buy a wall adapter, will that work with rockbox- not to mention an external battery pack?
21.17.02 #       <timberwolf19> oh nvm. I see an accessories list of everything that works with it...
21.17.16 #       <Soap> no
21.17.26 #       <Soap> that accessories list is not of "everything that works with it"
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21.17.41 #       <Soap> it is a list of everything that has been _reported_, be it working or not.
21.17.55 #       <Soap> An external battery back /should/ work.
21.18.18 #       <donvito> any progress with the Sansa Rhapsody BL?
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21.19.01 #       <timberwolf19> ok. I'll keep that in mind.
21.23.35 #       <Juice^> bug report for the playlist function on the sansa, "data abort at 000405A4" after doing a create playlist, it made one, and when i tried to view it it resulted in error
21.23.57 #       <Juice^> *aw*
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21.29.23 #       <webguest21> Hello?
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21.29.52 #       <webguest21> anyone there?
21.30.09 #       <timberwolf19> another question in general about the database view. I don't own the ipod video yet, but will be getting it sometime (1 or 2 days)...is it possible for a visually impaired person like myself to use the database? How do you choose how its organized (I know it can be organized by album, artist or song, etc) but how do I do this? where do I go?
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21.36.41 #       <sakuramboo> hmm, rockbox seems to be locking up after so many minutes of playback
21.37.09 #       <Soap> sakuramboo: you are on a 4th generation ipod, correct?
21.37.31 #       <sakuramboo> yes
21.38.00 #       <Soap> Have you tried mikeage's no-scaling build from the Unsupported Builds forum?
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21.38.55 #       <sakuramboo> i did, but that was when i was having a problem getting the interface to load, i switched back to the official build and fixed the problem, i can try that again
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21.41.00 #       <Soap> hmm, sakuramboo, I haven't heard of that problem before.  I know it isn't what you want to hear, but I am willing to bet coincidence.  I have a bad feeling you have two seperate issues.  Issue one being the normal 4th generation iPod freezing with Rockbox issue.  Issue two being whatever was preventing the interface from loading.
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21.41.13 #       <Soap> Don't use the COP build, use the no-scaling build.
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21.41.31 #       <sakuramboo> well, the problem with the interface was because of the battery not being plugged in correctly
21.41.42 #       <sakuramboo> i fixed that and now rockbox loads
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21.52.04 #       <sakuramboo> noscaling for the win!
21.52.11 #       <aleska> Q: if my ipod has a file system type of vfat, is that ok for rockbox, or is fat32 different and needed? TIA
21.52.44 #       <sakuramboo> fat32 and vfat are pretty much the same thing
21.52.50 #       <sakuramboo> vfat is what linux calls fat32
21.52.58 #       <aleska> cool, thanks
21.53.00 #       <ender`> if your ipod is >2GB, you have FAT32
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21.53.28 #       <aleska> mines an old 6gb mini
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21.55.31 #       <bluebrother> wiki admins: can someone please move the RootMenu page to something more senseful like RockboxMenu? I'm pretty sure (and it already seems) to cause confusion
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21.57.35 #       <aleska> I understand that before trying do install rockbox, its a good idea to back up the ipods boot partition.  But I'm unclear how one does that.
21.58.05 #       <sakuramboo> just follow the instructions on the website
21.58.11 #       <sakuramboo> they go over it step by step
21.58.45 #       <aleska> this one? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallationFromLinux
21.58.57 #       <aleska> I assume?
21.59.01 #       <sakuramboo> yeah
21.59.04 #       <aleska> thx
21.59.18 #       <sakuramboo> if you areusing alinux OS, that is
21.59.24 #       <aleska> ubuntu 6.10
21.59.33 #       <sakuramboo> ok
22.00.00 #       <sakuramboo> just remember to put 'sudo' before those commands that access the ipod
22.00.09 #       <aleska> cool, thx
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22.02.05 #       <Soap> aleska: what iPod do you have?
22.02.21 #       <aleska> its a 6gb mini
22.02.44 #       <Soap> ok
22.03.06 #       <aleska> that should be ok, right?
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22.14.38 #       <Soap> yes, sorry.
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22.21.05 #       <aleska> sakuramboo: so would I use $sudo dd if=/dev/sdf of=mbr.bin count=1 for example?
22.21.39 #       <barrywardell> i think using ipodpatcher would be a better way to do it
22.22.12 #       <barrywardell> assuming it works on the mini by now? linuxstb?
22.22.25 #       <linuxstb_> No...
22.22.46 #       <barrywardell> ah, then maybe not!
22.22.47 #       <linuxstb_> dan_a was investigating on his 4g greyscale - I don't have a non-cooperating target.
22.25.01 #       <barrywardell> aleska: in that case, then yes, just do what you said
22.25.25 #       <barrywardell> aleska: but also do the next step in those instructions
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22.33.10 #       <powers723> Hi. I'm new to rockbox, and am planning on modifying it for a science project. I have rockbox compiling and running in the simulator under cygwin on windows. I was wondering if anyone could explain why changing the volume setting in the simulator does not appear to change the volume. This appears to be true in both the iPod Color/Photo and iPod Video.
22.34.06 #       <nls> powers723: because it is not implemented
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22.35.03 #       <nls> volume conrtol is done by the dac's in the actual players, in the sim someone would have to implement it in software.
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22.35.15 #       <powers723> nls: Ok, thanks. I'll make do without.
22.35.42 #       <LinusN> powers723: the simulator is only for developing the UI, the volume control is not vital for that
22.35.50 #       <nls> powers723: you can try to use the equalizer pre amp, I guess that will work to control volume in the sim
22.36.54 #       <nls> or rather it will work to lower volume :-)
22.37.12 #       <powers723> It's ok, its not essential :p
22.37.26 #       <linuxstb_> It should be able to control the system mixer though - although as LinusN said, it's far from a high priority to fix.
22.38.09 #       * linuxstb_ would like someone to make a Desktop Rockbox
22.38.40 #       <linuxstb_> (obviously called Deskbox or Rocktop)
22.38.40 #       <NuclearDog> Yeah, it'd be nice.
22.38.57 #       <NuclearDog> For a while I was using the rockbox sim to play music on my computer, but using a numpad on a laptop is just too annoying.
22.38.57 #       <nls> if only it would play mp3 on 64bit...
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22.46.15 #       <aleska> how do I determine whether my 6GB ipod mini is 1G or 2G?
22.46.49 #       <nls> aleska: does it have the capacity of the drive (6GB) on the back somwhere?
22.46.54 #       <DerPapst> afaik the 1G mini wasn't available with a capacity of 6GB
22.47.03 #       <aleska> yes, says 6GB on back
22.47.21 #       <desowin> every mini that has size gravered on back is 2nd gen mini
22.47.27 #       <aleska> thx!
22.47.53 #       <DerPapst> linuxstb: thanks for helping me with ipodpatcher. i think i've managed it to compile loader 2 into it :)
22.48.32 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: I had another look at the sleep() in bootloader thing. how does this look: http://pastebin.ca/377820
22.49.26 #       <LinusN> barrywardell: looks ok to me
22.49.51 #       <barrywardell> it's not the ideal solution - that would be enabling interrupts - but it works
22.50.01 #       <barrywardell> LinusN: OK, thanks.
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22.57.44 #       <nls> linuxstb_: was there any reason other than "so that it is not forgotten" for re opening the faster rockboy request?
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23.00.19 #       <Soap> Now you can tell people "There is already a feature request.  What?  You didn't search filespray?" ;)
23.00.45 #       <nls> ahh, that is a good reason :-)
23.01.08 #       <linuxstb> nls: It was partly an accident - I clicked on "reopen" expecting a text box similar to the "close" link, but it immediately reopened it.  But the reason is that I think a comparison of Rockboy's source with iboy, and incorporating any useful changes would be a good thing.
23.01.29 #       <linuxstb> iboy is being actively developed, Rockboy isn't...
23.01.52 #       <nls> ah, ok
23.01.57 #       <linuxstb> Although iboy seems to be a bit chaotic - many different releases from different people, and no obvious sourcecode for some of them.
23.02.12 #       <Soap> (insert joke on IPL definition of active VS rockbox definition of active)
23.02.26 #       <DataGhost> heh
23.02.44 #       * linuxstb welcomes the kernel hacking team
23.03.11 #       <nls> wow, llorean closed over 40 taks today
23.03.13 #       <DerPapst> mean...  ^^
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23.04.01 #       <Soap> even closed my favorite idea.
23.05.05 #       <aleska> sorry, should I be downloading normal build, vs boot or sim?
23.05.23 #       <nls> aleska: depends on what you want to do :-)
23.05.41 #       <aleska> just trying to install rockbox on my mini for first time
23.05.54 #       <nls> Soap: he closed the "flying" request?! :-P
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23.06.12 #       <nls> aleska: you need a normal build then
23.06.16 #       <aleska> thx!
23.06.40 #       <Soap> nls: :)  No, the ".cfg in playlist" or "playlist in .cfg" idea.
23.06.43 #       <nls> and a bootloader, and make sure to follow the old instructions
23.07.19 #       * petur wonders why HAS_BUTTON_HOLD is defined in the target tree and not in the config_xxx.h, and why it is HAS_, not HAVE_
23.07.20 #       <nls> Soap: aha
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23.08.49 #       * nls wonders why preglow called the alarm define HAVE_RTC_ALARM but wrote HAVE_ALARM_RTC in the commit message
23.09.08 #       <Bagder> nls: to confuse us!
23.09.12 #       <moll> If I listen to the radio and press menu (which brings up the main menu), shouldn't "Now playing" take me back to the radio?
23.09.16 #       <petur> nls: too much beer
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23.09.26 #       <petur> s/too/to
23.09.38 #       <pixelma> ?
23.09.54 #       <Bagder> now who's had too much beer again? ;-)
23.10.02 #       <petur> nevermind, I had too much too
23.10.07 #       <pixelma> exactly!
23.10.23 #       * Soap thought petur was on his way to much beer.
23.10.36 #       <pixelma> that too ;)
23.10.37 #       <bluebrother> Bagder: shouldn't the wiki page describing the new menu called MainMenu rather than RootMenu?
23.10.49 #       <moll> Now it tries to resume mp3 playback. And if there's nothing to resume it shows the splash "Nothing to resume".
23.10.59 #       <linuxstb> I also noticed it's "Rockbox Menu" in MajorChanges.
23.11.04 #       <LinusN> moll: it should return to the radio
23.11.28 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: But I guess that page is obsolete now anyway.
23.11.45 #       <bluebrother> we already have a FS entry that mentions that page ...
23.11.57 #       <bluebrother> this damn "root" thing only causes confusion
23.12.01 Nick    JB_away is now known as JoeBorn (n=jborn@dsl017-022-247.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
23.12.27 Quit    powers723 ()
23.12.57 #       <Soap> bluebrother: Do you mind PMing me or pointing out to me where you have already explained how it is not truely a "root" menu?  In my (probably mistaken) mind I don't see how it isn't a root.
23.13.15 #       <linuxstb> I'm also confused about that...
23.13.27 Part    LinusN
23.13.53 #       <bluebrother> there was some consens to not have it as root. So initially the screens didn't leave with left to the menu
23.14.12 #       <moll> LinusN: then I've probably found a bug (H120, sim). If there's nothing to resume (as of mp3 playback) and I go to the main menu from the radio i says "Nothing to resume"
23.14.51 #       <bluebrother> and calling that thing "root" might also cause confusion about the root folder as it sounds similar
23.14.59 #       <nls> moll, report it in the thread or the tracker
23.15.22 #       <moll> nls: could you confirm this behaviour?
23.15.40 #       <moll>  Or anybody with a DAP with fm?
23.15.45 Quit    linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.15.58 #       <petur> hehe, my wife is now addicted to jewels (the game, not the real stuff (every woman I know is addicted to real jewels))
23.16.07 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: But I still don't understand how you are visualising it, if it isn't a root menu.
23.16.50 #       <bluebrother> I still think of a couple of screens at the same level, bewteen which you can switch. Some screens can call each other, some not
23.17.06 #       <bluebrother> and each screen can have its own hierarchy. Like the file browser
23.17.17 #       <Soap> Ahh, but I see those "shortcut keys" as like rope ladders between branches of a tree.
23.17.25 #       <nls> moll: Now you made me use the radio for the third time on my h300 :-P but yes it resumes file playback even if comming from fm
23.17.50 #       <Soap> with the "root menu" being the trunk, and file browser, database browser, settings, radio, WPS, recording all being branches.
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23.18.02 #       <Soap> (some branches being longer and more branched than others)
23.18.20 #       <moll> nls: and now you got addicted. "...Radio ga-ga"!
23.18.36 #       <nls> moll: NEVAR!!111 :-P
23.18.40 #       <bluebrother> jumping between arbitrary elements in a screen isn't a quite clear thing to me. Jumping between screens is.
23.18.43 #       <markun> Soap: and they are not really branches, because you can go to the menu and back to the file browser without going all the way to the root of the file tree
23.18.53 #       <bluebrother> just think of the file / database browser remembering its position.
23.19.18 #       <bluebrother> _If_ the menu were a root one you would _need_ to always start in the root folder when entering the file browser
23.19.35 #       <bluebrother> as it doesn't work that way it isn't a root menu.
23.19.48 #       <Soap> ok, markun, bluebrother a tree with chutes and ladders attached.
23.20.49 Quit    ender` (" Today's BOFH excuse: Zombie processes haunting the computer")
23.20.51 #       <bluebrother> Soap: that makes it too much complicated, especially for users
23.21.05 #       <bluebrother> I already thought about drawing an explanation of that concept ...
23.21.07 #       <markun> bluebrother: who cares about users :)
23.21.11 #       <Soap> I can't help the picture in my head!  ;)
23.21.23 #       <bluebrother> Soap: use the delete button!
23.21.26 #       <SpAwN> will rockbox eventualy support all types of videos?..or is it gonna be geared toward one video format?. it would be killer if i could(in time) be able to play a divx of xvid video...or any other kinda common video files
23.21.53 #       <nls> SpAwN: if someone codes it, sure
23.22.07 #       <thegeek_> no
23.22.13 #       <Soap> SpAwN: divx, spell it forward or backwards, takes a lot more CPU than MPEG2.
23.22.17 #       <bluebrother> SpAwN: divx needs a lot of processing power ... so that makes it quite unlikely
23.22.18 #       <thegeek_> atleast not on any current targets
23.22.19 #       <linuxstb> SpAwN: Rockbox will support whatever people choose to implement.  But the CPUs in most devices are very limited, so don't expect it to be able to play any video you can throw at it.
23.22.30 #       <markun> SpAwN: the size, framerate and audio probably need to be changed anyway, so you could just as well change the video codec..
23.22.34 #       <SpAwN> nls, well i dont know how to code :( ....but im sure somene could get mplayer on there?
23.22.44 #       <linuxstb> Definitely not.
23.22.46 #       <nls> but you'll most likely still want to recode them to your screen resolution so you could just as easily just transcode to whatever is supported
23.22.47 Quit    Juice^ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23.22.54 #       <markun> SpAwN: dream on :)
23.22.56 #       <bluebrother> maybe one time the video chip in the ipod video can be used for decoding videos. Don't hold your breath though
23.22.56 #       <SpAwN> ahh
23.22.58 #       <SpAwN> ;-)
23.23.24 #       <SpAwN> so the formates apple uses are basicly what it can handle right?.
23.23.34 #       <aleska> so, I just tried to install rockbox and I seem to be getting an error, Rockbox error: -1 could anyone point me in the irght direction of what to try next?
23.23.45 #       <bluebrother> Apple can do the decoding with the special chip as they know it.
23.23.49 Quit    moll ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23.23.52 #       <SpAwN> oh \
23.23.56 #       <bluebrother> aleska: read the manual ;-)
23.23.59 #       <nls> aleska: unzip the build
23.24.00 #       <SpAwN> theres a few chips in this ipod huh?
23.24.05 #       <bluebrother> you missed unzipping the build itself
23.24.14 #       <SpAwN> the main one then im just reading about the cop patch
23.24.18 #       <nls> to the root of the device and keep folder structure
23.24.19 #       <bluebrother> (and that error is explained in the manual)
23.24.19 #       <SpAwN> which makes use of a 2nd one
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23.24.31 #       * bluebrother hears "root" again
23.24.47 #       * barrywardell thinks he has found a bug in udelay() and wonders how much implication it has
23.24.48 #       <nls> but that IS a root
23.24.57 #       <bluebrother> I know :D
23.24.57 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: Wrapping?
23.25.00 #       <nls> micro :-P
23.25.03 #       <bluebrother> the real root :P
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23.25.05 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: yes, exactly
23.25.10 #       <barrywardell> the of takes account of wrappint
23.25.26 #       <barrywardell> wrapping*
23.25.26 #       <bluebrother> ok, I think I should really create a picture explaining the menu structure.
23.26.05 #       <markun> bluebrother: explain to who?
23.26.06 #       <barrywardell> if I calculated right, it wraps about once every 71.58 minutes
23.26.22 #       <bluebrother> to some people in the channel ;-)
23.26.37 #       <barrywardell> wouldn't want to be doing a frequency change around then!
23.26.40 #       <bluebrother> but maybe something similar would even be good for the manual. I just need to try it first
23.26.41 #       <linuxstb> I thought the menu structure was self-explanatory - there is one menu which is the starting point in Rockbox, and a number of screens attached to that menu...
23.26.41 #       <markun> bluebrother: they'll get the picture from using it, don't worry
23.27.19 #       <markun> linuxstb: yes, much more logical now
23.27.26 #       <bluebrother> they might get it. But explaining it with nice pictures might draw more attention to the manual (and make more users actually read it)
23.27.40 #       * x1jmp wonders why there are so few patches relating to translation in the tracker
23.27.53 #       <x1jmp> do all the translators have access to svn?
23.27.55 #       <linuxstb> markun: Which is why I regard it as a "root menu" in concept (although I agree it shouldn't be called that).
23.28.12 #       <nls> bluebrother: btw, I started adjusting the manual to the new menu stuff
23.28.25 #       <bluebrother> nls: nice.
23.28.38 #       <bluebrother> me is heavily lacking time atm.
23.28.38 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: i suppose it's only a 1 in 2 million chance for the frequency scaling, but with udelay(150000) in the sansa lcd driver, that's a lot more likely
23.28.49 #       <nls> x1jmp: basically, translations get committed quite fast
23.29.07 #       <Soap> thank you for the explination bluebrother
23.29.29 #       <Soap> I know you have been making this point for a couple of days, I'm glad I finally understand it now.
23.29.32 #       <x1jmp> nls: so the devs translate everything themselves?
23.29.48 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: I'm pretty sure I tried to fix the wrapping ages ago, but it didn't fix the freezing, and my implementation was hackish, so I never got around to committing it...
23.29.55 #       <markun> I noticed that MENU doesn't take me to The Rockbox Menu in the playlist viewer. This was on a Gigabeat, is it the same for everyone?
23.30.22 Quit    m_ ("Ex-Chat")
23.30.38 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: the of uses a fairly hackish fix too. it just exits the udelay early when a wrap happens
23.30.53 #       * x1jmp notices that closed tasks aren't shown by default...
23.30.56 Quit    DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23.31.07 #       <linuxstb> I think the TIME_BEFORE and TIME_AFTER macros that are used with current_tick handle wrapping.
23.34.13 #       * bluebrother just discovered the recording menu records the playback in the sim :)
23.34.58 #       <barrywardell> yes, the tick stuff isn't affected. it's just udelay that has the problem
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23.35.22 #       <bluebrother> hmm, IMO the title should be enabled by default. Looks a bit strange for the Main Menu having a title and the browsers not
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23.36.10 #       <Soap> the file broswer can show (full) paths where the menu title goes.
23.36.38 #       <Soap> If you are talking about what I think you are talking about.
23.38.00 #       <aleska> I didn't realize that unmounting the ipod was required to actually write rockbox to it.  I kept thinking I had copied the files to the ipod but each time I reconnected it they were gone.  now it seems to be running.
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23.40.09 #       <Soap> write-caching is a bitch on removeable media is a bitch
23.40.21 #       <pixelma> bluebrother: are the browser titles independent from the menu titles (as a setting to switch them on and off, too)?
23.40.40 #       <hcs> Soap: stuck that "is a bitch" in there twice to try and force it out of the cache?
23.41.05 #       <Soap> lol
23.41.05 #       <bluebrother> pixelma: yes, the settings titles seem to be always enabled
23.41.15 #       <bluebrother> haven't checked if I could turn them off.
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23.54.25 #       <bluebrother> nls: have we a consensus how to create screenshots? I.e. what settings to use?
23.55.47 Quit    m__ ("Ex-Chat")
23.55.51 #       <pixelma> like bitdepth for example?
23.56.06 #       <bluebrother> no, like used theme etc.
23.56.43 #       <bluebrother> I'd suggest using the default settings but enabling the iCatcher theme. The default font is quite tiny on devices like the ipod video
23.57.31 #       <bluebrother> and that theme is available for all players
23.58.20 #       <pixelma> don't know - I think someone already asked that here... IIRC it was nls
23.58.43 #       <pixelma> but don't remember the outcome...