--- Log for 11.04.107  Server: kornbluth.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 9 days and 18 hours ago

00.00.03 #       <datachild> i have the rockbox.ipod file in my ipod root, it's an old one tho.. should i replace that one with the new rockbox.ipod file that in my .rockbox dir?
00.00.29 #       <bluebrother> what bootloader are you using?
00.00.37 Quit    davina (Remote closed the connection)
00.00.51 #       <datachild> IPL
00.00.56 #       <bluebrother> meep.
00.01.17 #       <bluebrother> the Rockbox bootloader defaults to /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod first
00.01.21 #       <bluebrother> IPL doesn't.
00.01.27 #       <datachild> :/
00.01.32 #       <bluebrother> you have a couple of options:
00.01.32 Quit    H10_007quick ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030916]")
00.01.42 #       <datachild> but i could just overwrite that file with the new one, right?
00.01.49 #       <bluebrother> (1) move rockbox.ipod out of /.rockbox to the root. You need to do this on every update
00.02.02 #       <bluebrother> (2) adjust the IPL loader to look at the right location
00.02.04 #       <datachild> that's what i just did, gonna see if it works
00.02.13 #       <bluebrother> (3) use the Rockbox bootloader to boot IPL :D
00.03.21 #       * bluebrother uses (3)
00.03.22 #       * Llorean wishes people would just use the official bootloader, or at least try it before reporting problems.
00.03.24 #       <datachild> works
00.03.27 #       <datachild> it works
00.03.31 #       <Llorean> Or at the very least, tell us what unofficial mods they had up front
00.03.32 #       <datachild> thanks alto!
00.03.35 #       * bluebrother agrees with Llorean 
00.04.04 #       <bluebrother> how about telling people to use our bootloader to boot IPL? Works really fine here ;-)
00.04.22 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Have you tried clicking on linux.ipod and using RoLo to load it?
00.04.27 #       <Llorean> Or is it linux.bin for you right now?
00.04.46 #       <bluebrother> not yet. I manually installed the ipl root system and put linux.bin to the root
00.04.54 #       <bluebrother> but I also created linux.ipod.
00.04.57 #       <bluebrother> lemme try ...
00.05.16 #       <Llorean> I've clicked linux.ipod and had it load fine, but since I don't have an iPL root system, it hangs eventually, of course
00.05.49 #       <bluebrother> hmm. It crashed, but directly after reboot roloing worked.
00.06.53 #       <Llorean> Well RoLo still has some work to go, though, but that's nice to see.
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00.07.22 #       <bluebrother> tried again, I can reproduce it. Directly after startup roloing works
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00.07.44 #       <bluebrother> if I started playback before roloing it crashes.
00.08.13 #       <bluebrother> but holding play upon bootup works reliably.
00.08.27 #       <Llorean> So, maybe coprocessor related.
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00.09.14 #       <bluebrother> possibly
00.09.27 #       <Llorean> Either way, it's on its way.
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00.09.49 #       <Llorean> Being able to load Apple OS or Linux from within Rockbox completely negates the need for Loader2 :-P
00.10.21 #       <bluebrother> hehe
00.12.55 #       <bluebrother> flights to sweden got too expensive the last week. So no devcon for me :'-(
00.14.18 #       * Llorean never had the money
00.14.44 #       * petur wonders if preglow's coming and mentions the word 'beer'
00.15.10 #       * bluebrother notices a hilight on "beer"
00.15.20 #       <petur> what, you too? :p
00.15.45 #       <bluebrother> hehe ... but maybe I should use a different color than green ;-)
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00.16.06 #       <bluebrother> I was playing around with settings in irssi.
00.16.44 #       <practisevoodoo> my iriver h320 has stopped loading its original firmware when the rec button is held down during startup
00.16.53 #       <practisevoodoo> anyone had this problem?
00.17.18 #       <petur> you mean it crashes or it always loads rockbox?
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00.17.49 #       <practisevoodoo> always rockbox
00.17.56 #       <bluebrother> does the rec button itself work? I.e. does the backlight come on when pressing it in Rockbox?
00.18.16 #       * safetydan curses hardware eq...
00.18.20 #       <safetydan> nothing but trouble that code
00.18.45 #       <practisevoodoo> it works but when it is pressed during startup it wipes my rockbox settings
00.19.04 #       <Llorean> safetydan: Is it a case of the settings being loaded before the hardware is inited or something, on boot?
00.19.09 #       <bluebrother> that's intended.
00.19.16 #       <Llorean> practisevoodoo: You're not holding it early enough from the sounds of it
00.19.18 #       <stripwax> practisevoodoo - are you pressing it too late?
00.19.33 #       <stripwax> ^ (what Llorean said)
00.19.47 #       <safetydan> Llorean, yup. I've stared at the code and I can't see why it wouldn't work. Not having an iPod Video makes it a tad hard to test.
00.19.51 #       <amiconn> Bagder: Still there?
00.19.56 #       <practisevoodoo> hrm, well done stripwax
00.20.25 #       <Llorean> safetydan: Yeah, damn device-specific hardware.
00.20.47 #       <practisevoodoo> i've been using it for two years and never had this problem before and then all of a sudden i must have started doing it differently
00.22.22 Quit    kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00.24.59 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: I haven't looked at jhMikeS's commit yet, but I did look at an earlier patch.  Basically, he's just cleaned everything up, and rewritten the a/v sync and frame display timing code to make everything smoother.
00.26.10 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: It is very, very, very much smoother on my Gigabeat with my 29.97 files
00.26.42 #       <markun> Llorean: I agree
00.26.53 Quit    Forte ("What the hells a Jigawatt?!")
00.27.27 #       <linuxstb> I think he left a little of my code there...
00.30.07 #       <markun> linuxstb: do you plan to still work om mpegplayer?
00.31.24 #       <linuxstb> Maybe, but jhMikeS seems to have taken an interest, which is fine by me.  I only really worked on video because no-one else would...
00.33.11 #       <safetydan> Hrmm... I think the audio related settings need to be applied from audio_init()
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00.42.05 #       <pearldiver> yeah, the video playback is great on gigabeat as of now
00.42.05 #       <Llorean> safetydan: To guarantee the right order of operations?
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00.46.05 #       <Oinkers> Has anybody reported a problem with the latest build and mpegplayer on the H10 5G?
00.46.58 #       <linuxstb> Oinkers: I don't think so.  Are you?
00.48.06 #       <Oinkers> linuxstb: Yes. The video and audio starts normally, then both fast forward.  Finally, there is just video, no audio, and the unit is hung.
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00.50.54 #       <Dengekitai> sup
00.50.55 #       <pearldiver> Llorean wow, 29.97 playback is so smooth indeed
00.51.07 Nick    Dengekitai is now known as Forte (n=j@cpe-76-181-196-81.columbus.res.rr.com)
00.51.15 #       <Forte> so what good games are there for rockbox
00.52.43 #       <markun> Forte: doom, gameboy, tetris, bubbles, sudoky, ...
00.52.56 #       <linuxstb> pacbox...
00.52.57 #       <markun> sudoku even
00.53.05 #       <pixelma> markun: not that tet... word ;)
00.53.26 #       <markun> pixelma: :)
00.53.30 Part    Oinkers
00.53.40 #       <Forte> how good is gameboy on the ipod video
00.53.41 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Does pacbox support Ms Pacman?
00.53.47 #       <markun> no no, rockbloks of course, we promissed not to use the T word :)
00.53.53 #       <Llorean> Forte: Honestly it's not great anywhere.
00.54.05 #       <Llorean> It's not *bad* though, really, but you may want to stick to RPGs and turn-based games.
00.54.10 #       <markun> Llorean: it's not too bad on the Gigabeat
00.54.24 #       <Llorean> markun: Yeah, the main problem on the gigabeat is the audio issues it still has. :)
00.54.26 #       <markun> well, maybe we lack some buttons
00.54.30 #       <markun> ah yes
00.54.32 #       <Llorean> Nah, buttons are fine.
00.55.20 #       <pearldiver> also, the latest build seems "faster" somehow, i've been using one from a week ago, just updated with all the latest commits
00.55.29 #       <pearldiver> very "smooth" browsing all around
00.56.00 #       <pearldiver> going from one big folder to another, skipping, seeking, etc
00.56.06 #       <pearldiver> very little disk access
00.56.12 #       <pearldiver> maybe its just me though :)
00.56.26 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: No.  The hardware is very similar, and the original emulator I ported (PIE) supported Ms Pacman, but I could never get it to work...
00.56.41 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Ah. I was just curious.
00.56.49 #       <petur> pearldiver: did you enable dircache? ;)
00.56.55 #       <linuxstb> I tried, failed, and gave up...
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00.57.18 #       <pearldiver> petur ive been using it since the early days :P
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00.58.39 #       <H10_007quick> Does some1 know how to edit the plugin index?
00.58.53 #       <H10_007quick> It is way to complex with all the symbols
00.59.06 #       <pearldiver> btw, in the 400 tracks playlist, whats the best way to get to the track 200 for example, if you dont know the track title ?
00.59.37 #       <linuxstb> H10_007quick: How do you want to edit it?  It's mostly generated automatically from all the other plugin pages.
00.59.44 #       <pearldiver> page scrolling im assumming?
00.59.46 #       <Llorean> pearldiver: Page up/down, yes.
00.59.48 #       <safetydan> Llorean, yeah I think the hardware eq can only be set up after audiohw_init() is called. Which means the eq settings need to be applied in audio_init(). The other sound settings are applied there already so it may actually be an improvement in code clarity.
00.59.59 #       <Llorean> safetydan: Makes perfect sense for me.
01.00.04 #       <Llorean> safetydan: That is audio hardware, anyway
01.00.29 #       <H10_007quick> Oh i see
01.00.35 #       <safetydan> now I just have to wait 8 or so hours until I get home to a compiler to build a patch :)
01.00.49 #       <TrueJournals> I'm a bit curious about the mpegplayer commit today...  will it allow me to play to videos in a row on my H10?  Does it improve the sound quality (get rid of fuzziness in the background)?
01.01.16 #       <TrueJournals> *play to videos should have been play two videos
01.01.18 #       <markun> TrueJournals: no and no
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01.01.22 #       <Llorean> TrueJournals: If it fixed a crash, it would've said so.
01.01.48 #       <Llorean> At least, if it was known to fix a crash.
01.01.53 #       <TrueJournals> OK, just curious...
01.01.57 #       <markun> TrueJournals: I never heard any fuzziness, what exactly are you talking about?
01.02.03 #       <Llorean> TrueJournals: You CAN test you know
01.02.06 #       <Llorean> markun: PortalPlayer issue
01.02.13 #       <TrueJournals> Llorean: I'm lazy...
01.02.15 #       <Llorean> markun: Specifically H10 and Sansa so far.
01.02.46 #       <Llorean> TrueJournals: It's not like you're never going to update again, just check at next update.
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01.15.32 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: Have you tried the latest mpegplayer on a portalplayer target?  Pressing STOP now seems to reliably crash on my ipod...
01.15.45 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Lemme dig out my Nano
01.18.45 #       <Llorean> Can jhmike's asm speedups be adapted to iPods from the Sansa?
01.19.26 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Holding Play/Pause freezes, choosing "Quit Mpegplayer" works excellently
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01.19.26 #       <H10_007quick> linuxstb: by stop do you mean the botton to exit?
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01.20.38 #       <H10_007quick> linuxstb: becaue on my H10 the botton to exit is the power button but there are no errors exiting, seems really good!
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01.21.53 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Now that was odd. Played a second file after "Quit" succeeded. Sound, no video.
01.22.21 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: Exactly what I'm experiencing...
01.23.10 #       <linuxstb> And yes, the asm can be adapted to the ipods, I've already started doing it for the video.  Once that's working, I'll probably do it for the Nano and Color/Photo (they share an LCD driver).
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01.24.16 #       <Llorean> Alright, Play/Pause causes it to lock up, "Quitting" causes the next one to play without video, consistently now.
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02.06.54 #       <knapp> I'm trying to get this build to work: http://www.senab.co.uk/rockbox/default.asp     I loaded it on there, but it seems like it doesn't find any media (songs).
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02.24.46 #       <Llorean> knapp: When trying unsupported builds, you need to seek their providers when you have problems with them
02.29.31 #       <knapp> ok
02.29.35 #       <knapp> understood
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02.29.48 #       <knapp> I figured it out on my own, forgot to update db
02.29.51 #       <knapp> :)
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02.41.04 #       <jhulst> sorry, wrong window
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02.51.47 #       <knapp> Does anyone know the battery capacity for a 30 gig ipod video?
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03.14.31 #       <Jeanhub> Hi.
03.15.00 #       <Jeanhub> Does anyone know where I could get mario for my iPod?
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03.16.45 #       <Jeanhub> Well?
03.17.05 #       <Llorean> Jeanhub: You can't, legally
03.17.09 #       <Llorean> ANd you shouldn't be asking in here.
03.17.47 #       <Llorean> In the future you might want to try reading channel guidelines before speaking.
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03.27.53 #       <Jeanhub> Sorry Llorean
03.28.06 #       <Jeanhub> I readed them BUT I guess I didn't see that part.
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03.53.09 #       <scottder> Hey all, I haven't updated my nano in a few months...is there a reason why rockbox.ipod is in the .rockbox folder?
03.53.29 #       <Llorean> Because we like it there better?
03.53.42 #       <Ben> Has anyone reported a bug with MPEG Player on Sansa Targets?
03.53.57 #       <Llorean> Ben: People have reported many bugs, you'll have to be more specific.
03.54.11 #       <Ben> The video played perfectly...one time.
03.54.11 #       <Llorean> For example, someone just filed one reporting that mpegplayer plays only one file properly, the second one doesn't work.
03.54.23 #       <Ben> yeah thats the one i just did, i came here to see if there was any info
03.54.25 #       <Llorean> They filed if for Sansa, but it's actually a known issue (documented on the mpegplayer wiki page)
03.54.37 #       <Llorean> What kind of info would you be looking for?
03.54.39 #       <Ben> oh really, sorry. that would be my fault.
03.55.56 #       <Ben> i don't see any info about it on the wiki page?
03.56.16 #       <Llorean> "sometimes mpegplayer doesn't stop the video when requested, and may not successfully start playback of a subsequent video."
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03.56.55 #       <Llorean> On some players this manifests as mpegplayer refusing to allow you to exit, on others only the audio plays when you start the next video (or nothing at all)
03.57.39 #       <Ben> oh, i was incorrectly assuming that that implied that a restart fixed the problem. not a permanent type of thing.
03.58.07 #       <Llorean> When you restart, you should get one video again, per restart.
03.59.05 #       <Ben> this is not so on my player. i even reinstalled rockbox, still no video, which makes me mad because it was running beautifully
03.59.39 #       <Llorean> Give me 5 minutes, I'll test with my Sansa
03.59.57 #       <Ben> oh its not rush or problem, i just wanted to let you guys know.
04.00.09 #       <Llorean> Well, what you're describing should be impossible.
04.00.23 #       <Llorean> Nothing that could prevent it from running is or should be capable of being preserved across boots
04.00.49 #       <Ben> thats what i figured.
04.01.07 #       <Ben> could it have corrupted files?
04.01.32 #       <ttyS1> I'm tryin to install rockbox on a sansa e280r. where should I put the pp5022.mi4 file after I encrypt it ?
04.01.34 #       <Llorean> Do you mean "could my player have corrupted files on it" or do you mean "could mpegplayer have corrupted files"?
04.01.41 #       <Llorean> ttyS1: It doesn't work on the e200R
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04.02.15 #       <Ben> i meant could mpeg player have corruped that file by running it?
04.03.35 #       <Llorean> Not realistically, no\
04.03.52 #       <ttyS1> Llorean: i was reading a post on the forum where some one got it working: forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.645
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04.04.29 #       <Ben> ill attempt to reload some of the videos on the player. see if that fixes anything.
04.04.39 #       <Llorean> ttyS1: Where in there does it say it works?
04.05.24 #       <Llorean> Ben: I'm seeing the behaviour you describe.
04.05.25 #       <Llorean> It's odd
04.05.47 #       <Ben> Yeah
04.06.10 #       <Ben> i thought maybe something was up where i ran out of buffering space? i had very little memory left on the player
04.06.21 #       <Llorean> Though I'm also concerned that the one time it did work, it reported 0fps
04.07.06 #       <ttyS1> Llorean: forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.msg69262#msg69262
04.07.38 #       <Llorean> ttyS1: Again, that doesn't say that it works.
04.07.43 #       <Llorean> It just says that we can decrypt and encrypt them
04.08.07 #       <ttyS1> oh ok, I thought that was the whole issue
04.08.21 #       <Llorean> If you read the actual e200R thread, you'll see the real status
04.08.35 #       <Llorean> It's pretty clear from the majority of information on our site that it doesn't work
04.08.45 #       <Ben> Llorean: Ok i added a new video to my player. it plays that one.
04.09.03 #       <Ben> FPS is displaying properly
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04.09.29 #       <Ben> howver, video is playing in weird fast-forward mode.
04.10.26 #       <Ben> ok tried to play one of the old videos bring up text "Freeze" at the bottom of the screen.
04.10.38 #       <Llorean> It says "Freeze"
04.10.43 #       <Ben> yeah
04.10.45 #       <Llorean> That's unlikely, it doesn't contain that string.
04.10.51 #       <Ben> yeah i wish i was lying.
04.11.08 #       <Ben> FREEZE! in all caps
04.11.14 #       <Ben> bottom left corner
04.12.29 #       <Ben> one video played fine after that, then another black screen.
04.13.01 #       <Llorean> I suspect that it's just a case of "videos may or may not play" and the first one did by chance.
04.13.36 #       <Llorean> Unfortunately the people to talk to about it aren't really around
04.14.06 #       <Ben> ok, i was just trying to bring up my problem to the community. trying to assist in any way i could.
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04.33.16 #       <Noah0504> Does Rockbox rank disc number about track number yet?
04.33.35 #       <Noah0504> Opps, I mean above.
04.34.50 #       <Llorean> Why do you actually *need* disk numbers?
04.35.07 #       <Llorean> And I don't think anyone's submitted a patch.
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04.44.54 #       <pearldiver> is there a way to display 2 languages on-screen keyboard? or a solution can be, if another language needed, just loading a different .kbd file?
04.50.11 #       <Noah0504> Llorean: Because I like to keep albums with multiple discs under the same album name.  I don't like to label an album Example (Disc 1) and Example (Disc 2).
04.50.29 #       <Llorean> That's why you *want* it.
04.51.06 #       <Noah0504> haha, Yep.
04.51.08 #       <Llorean> I imagine if someone comes up with a good patch for it, there's no real reason not to have it though.
04.51.34 #       <Llorean> But there's many ways around the lack of it.
04.51.46 #       <Llorean> You can also number tracks 101-1XX for disc 1, and 202-2XX for disc 2
04.51.47 #       <Noah0504> Well, I remember seeing some requests for it quite awhile ago, but I didn't know if it had ever been patched or implemented.
04.51.57 #       <Llorean> The changelog does exist...
04.52.19 #       <Noah0504> hehe, But it's been so long, I wouldn't know when to look.
04.52.39 #       <Llorean> Search it for "disc number" or "disc" or "number"...
04.52.48 #       <Noah0504> Ahh, good call.
04.53.01 #       <Llorean> It's a lot less fallible than asking in here where you've only got people who may not even have an interest in the feature (I think it's pointless) and don't use it.
04.53.15 #       <Noah0504> haha
04.54.01 #       <Noah0504> If I could program worth a heck, I'd try to fix it, if only for myself, but...
04.54.07 #       <Noah0504> ...I can't program worth a heck.
04.54.08 #       <Noah0504> haha
04.59.37 #       <Overand> hey - how *is* the last.fm support?
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06.25.08 #       <midkay> JdGordon: around?
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06.43.42 #       <JdGordon> midkay: am now
06.44.04 #       <midkay> JdGordon: i have some or most of the icons in BMP format.. it'd be no problem to create any that are missing. did you want them?
06.44.37 #       <JdGordon> na its ok now.. i got an easy way to get them all in one hit
06.45.25 #       <midkay> oh, cool, alright. can i ask what you wanted them for? anything to do with bmp2rb in the build system? :)
06.45.28 #       <JdGordon> ... but if your bored... maybe you would like to create a new icon set for 16bit targets of say size 8x8 (or maybe a bit larger) in full colour for each of the 6x8 icons?
06.46.22 #       <midkay> that sounds fun... maybe i'll try my hand at a few now.
06.47.40 #       <JdGordon> no rush, id like to say it will be ready by monday.. but who knows :p
06.48.26 #       <midkay> JdGordon: that's cool. sounds like a fun get-my-mind-off-life project. :) what're you up to?
06.48.44 #       <JdGordon> what we need is a single bmp with every icon from the 6x8 enum in recorder/icons.h layed out horizontrally with no space between them
06.48.50 #       <JdGordon> themable icon sets
06.49.04 #       <midkay> sweetness.. hmm though..
06.49.40 #       <midkay> 6x8 translates to 6x7 of actual possible pixels, really.. the blank line at the bottom. what're you gonna do about that?
06.52.42 #       <JdGordon> the code will paint whatever size icon gets loaded... the user will be able to load any size from 4x4 to 24x24 (and anything between.. e.g 4x16!)
06.53.04 #       <JdGordon> oh, but you want a gap between icons... should be possible
06.53.20 #       <midkay> JdGordon: sounds excellent, just what we need. :)
06.53.25 #       <JdGordon> im going to center the icons horiz and vertically in the size of a char where is should go
06.53.36 #       <JdGordon> so even 4x4 icons will be fine with a hige font
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06.54.01 #       <midkay> i'm just saying, we currently have space at the bottom of each icon. and do you intend to retain that in the new system, or insert space between icons in the code, or what?
06.55.01 #       <midkay> without that space, they'll meet up and it looks pretty ugly.. i guess the easiest way is just to require the icon maker to do it himself (at least a pixel space at the bottom of each..).
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07.03.34 #       <JdGordon> midkay: I think its best to leave it to the icon author... because it will heavily depend on the font size how much space is between each icon
07.04.05 #       <midkay> JdGordon: right, sounds appropriate. so the size will be defined in the theme CFG file or something?
07.04.55 #       <JdGordon> the user will be able to choose a maximum width and hieght to load (to create a buffer), the actual size will be determined from the dimenaions of the bmp
07.05.47 #       <midkay> like bmpwidth = icon width, and bmpheight/num_icons = icon height?
07.06.27 #       <JdGordon> exactly, but  was thinking it would be a horizontal strip, not verticle...
07.06.33 #       <JdGordon> which is easier to draw in though?
07.07.28 #       <midkay> ah, whenever i see bitmap_part images, they're always vertical.. so i just assumed. perhaps for the sake of making it easy to leave a space at the bottom of each icon it'd be best done horizontally.
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07.09.18 #       <JdGordon> i thought horizontal because you would be able to see more at once in your drawing program...
07.09.40 #       <JdGordon> that part isnt actually coded yet, so ill leave that choice up to whoever has the loudest voice :p
07.10.24 #       <midkay> JdGordon: ah, true also i guess.. horizontal is probably best then.
07.11.21 #       <JdGordon> one thing we havnt figured out is how to do the loadable icons yet (viewers.config)
07.11.30 #       <JdGordon> any immediate thoughts?
07.11.59 #       <JdGordon> obviously the text version will be replaced...
07.12.54 #       <midkay> ah... that is a slight problem :)
07.14.48 #       <JdGordon> the two options we have come up with is a viewers.bmp image with all the icons, and in viewers.config an index number would be used so the right icon is used, or a seperate image for each extension (which would suck)
07.15.38 #       <midkay> viewers.bmp sounds better.. but hmm.. blah. i guess that's about as good as it gets.
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07.20.02 #       <ptw419> for anyone who cares I am posting the extracted eboot.bin and recovery.bin, as well as a firmware recovery batch proggie to the Gigabeat S wiki
07.22.29 #       <moos> hello
07.22.39 #       <moos> ptw419: link please?
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07.23.33 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: You can't really say whether a horizontal or vertical strip is easier to draw. A vertical strip keeps the pixels of one icon closer together in memory, that's about the only thing for 16 bit targets. For 1 bit and 2 bit targets, draw speed depends on relative alignment of bitmap and framebuffer
07.24.38 #       <JdGordon> ah, didnt think about that... so which is better from a code point of view? seen as all icons will be loaded into a single chunk of ram?
07.24.51 #       <amiconn> So just go with the strip type you think is easier to handle for the author. A horizontal strip is the more natural orientation imho, while a vertical strip allows previewing the icons with text to the right without prior rearrangement
07.25.27 #       <JdGordon> so bassically.. flip a coin? :p
07.25.54 #       <ptw419> one moment
07.25.56 #       <ptw419> doing it right now
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07.27.42 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: oh, yesterday you said viewers.config was setup during the build... isnt it static and used by the build to put the right plugins in the right place? I dont think its all that bad if we put an icon for every line in that file in the default iconset, if one target really has very few plugins we can give that a seperate viewers.bmp file
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07.31.34 #       <amiconn> It's actually both. buildzip.pl uses it to put viewer in the right place, and buildzip.pl cuts lines not applicable to the respecive target when creating the version which is put in the .zip
07.32.02 #       <JdGordon> oh, bloody hell :p
07.33.09 #       <ptw419> uploading last file
07.33.32 #       <joshk> has anyone tried messing with the coby mp-c951?
07.36.28 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Yeah, it's a bit complicated. Check buldzip.pl lines 213..262
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07.37.14 #       * JdGordon hates perl
07.38.30 #       <amiconn> bitmpa?
07.38.36 #       <amiconn> ;)
07.39.11 #       <JdGordon> bah, in the commit message of the actual diff?
07.39.26 #       <JdGordon> that wrong comment has bugged me for so long..
07.39.34 #       <amiconn> bmp.h
07.39.51 #       <JdGordon> doh
07.40.10 #       <JdGordon> bitmpa... its a modified version of the mpa codec :p
07.40.16 #       <midkay> hahaha.
07.40.46 #       <JdGordon> fixed
07.41.41 #       <pearldiver> so
07.42.09 #       <pearldiver> on the screen keyboard in something different then english is not yet possible im assumming
07.42.22 #       <pearldiver> -the
07.42.27 #       <ptw419> updated
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07.43.20 #       <JdGordon> pearldiver: yeah, ascii only at the moment.. if it could use the user font it would be able to do full unicode
07.43.51 #       <pearldiver> what is a "user font" ?
07.44.34 #       <pearldiver> native unicode one?
07.44.43 #       <JdGordon> the font that you choose, any of the custom ones
07.44.51 #       <pearldiver> ah i see
07.45.23 #       * pearldiver just discovered the wonderful world of the dictionary plugin
07.45.49 #       <pearldiver> so some cross language translation would be great
07.48.14 #       <amiconn> The vkeyboard supports loadable keymaps, and the system font supports full iso8859-1. So it's a bit more than just ascii
07.48.38 #       <pearldiver> aha
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07.51.33 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: is there a way to get the pointer to start of the bmp at the x offset? so i can return a ICON?
07.51.44 #       <amiconn> Hmm, and with a loadable keymap, the vkeyboard uses the ui font, so you can input unicode if you want
07.52.19 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: No, because that's not possible
07.52.43 #       * JdGordon didnt tihnk so
07.52.51 #       <amiconn> Depending on the pixel packing, a sub bitmap is not just a different byte start position ine the whole bitmap
07.52.56 #       <JdGordon> ok, so minor change of plans
07.53.10 #       <pearldiver> amiconn what would be the steps to do so?
07.53.44 #       <amiconn> you can't, unless you want to shuffle bits around all the time
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07.55.17 #       <amiconn> Just have a gui function that actually draws the icon, and pass screen position and icon index number to it
07.59.07 #       <amiconn> There are several other things to solve for themable icons: 1) where to put the icons for file formats supported by the core, and those for the menu. 2) the second set of icons for targets with an lcd remote
08.00.10 #       <amiconn> Right now icons are mono bitmaps and hence the same internal format for all bitmap targets, but with native bitmaps this will change
08.00.42 #       <combrains> hi all - I thought I would ask here before putting a featur request in FS
08.01.14 #       <combrains> would it be possible to make a visual represntation of the graphic eq
08.01.37 #       * amiconn points towards preglow
08.01.38 #       <combrains> i.e add a graph to the qraphic EQ page or somthing?
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08.02.16 #       <combrains> I would make the eq far easier to use
08.02.25 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: supported formats: in a seperate .bmp and hard code an index... its the same problem as viewers.config...
08.03.13 #       <combrains> I have to go but if someone could throw the idea around and/or put it in FS then that would be neat
08.03.15 #       <combrains> cheers
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08.06.09 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: whats the stride parameter for lcd_bitmap_part?
08.07.07 #       <midkay> The stride parameter is the width of the source bitmap in pixels.
08.07.29 #       <JdGordon> alrighty
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08.18.21 #       <amiconn> The distinction between lcd_bitmap[_part], lcd_transparent_bitmap[_part] and lcd_mono_bitmap_[part] will (hopefully) be gone soon, as will the need to specify stride explicitly
08.18.33 #       <amiconn> Bagder: there?
08.20.19 #       <JdGordon> hmm, the supported extenstions in tree.c are referenced by their Icon_ enum value, so they shouldnt cause any problems
08.22.41 #       <JdGordon> we have 32 customsable inbuilt icons....
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08.26.59 #       <amiconn> Hi LinusN :)
08.27.38 #       <LinusN> hi
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08.54.32 #       <JdGordon> it works!
08.55.17 #       <JdGordon> well... almost
08.57.52 #       <JdGordon> bloody remote doesnt have transparent_bitmap_part()? :'(
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08.59.31 #       <JdGordon> hmm... it doesnt get set which I tihnk is a bit odd...
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09.02.08 #       <JdGordon> wooot! this works
09.02.59 #       <amiconn> transparent bitmaps are only implemented for 16 bit lcds atm
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09.04.56 #       <JdGordon> OK, so the lcd remote is going to cause problems :( might need to have 2 buffers then
09.05.10 #       <JdGordon> or change sims while im debugging :p
09.05.15 #       <amiconn> You will need 2 buffers anyway
09.05.27 #       <amiconn> The pixel format of main & remote lcd are different
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09.05.36 #       <JdGordon> ok
09.06.31 #       <crop> He-he. On http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g, the comment abouth changing time tags states exactly the ooposite to what must be done :-)
09.06.55 #       <JdGordon> probably because that was changed last night?
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09.07.43 #       <crop> JdGordon: I doubt. I mean the comment by Gary Light, 10 Apr 2007
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09.09.42 #       <LinusN> ah, yes :-)
09.10.29 #       <LinusN> crop: no, it is perfectly correct
09.11.50 #       <LinusN> crop: he has updated the wps, and he described how to make it compatible with older builds
09.12.06 #       <crop> LinusN: it says "...or change the line that says %ac%ck:%cM to this %ac%c k:Mc" It should be the other way round IMO
09.12.21 #       <LinusN> crop: read what i just wrote
09.13.53 #       <crop> LinusN: ah, now I see! The comment tells how to adjust it for an older build. Shame on me!
09.14.00 #       <LinusN> :-)
09.14.46 #       <crop> LinusN: btw (I read this yesterday on irc): is every sim build necessarily also a DEBUG one?
09.15.25 #       <LinusN> no, all sim builds are debug builds
09.15.37 #       * LinusN can't read
09.15.42 #       <LinusN> yes, they are debug builds
09.16.10 #       <JdGordon> f5 in the sim for screeny right?
09.16.46 #       <crop> iirc, for a sim build I just select S in ../tools/configure. But for a DEBUG build, I have to select (A)dvanced and then (S) and (D)
09.17.05 #       <LinusN> crop: you don't select DEBUG for sim builds
09.17.31 #       <LinusN> it is implied
09.17.38 #       <LinusN> since the sim builds are for debugging
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09.18.29 #       <crop> LinusN: hrm... I thought they were for simulation (e.g. testing a new WPS), not necessarily for debugging
09.18.36 #       <LinusN> nope
09.18.53 #       <LinusN> the sim was created purely for developing and debugging purposes
09.19.10 #       <LinusN> but some people like to use it for developing WPS'es
09.19.29 #       <crop> So the (A) mode can be used to create a non-debug sim?
09.19.37 #       <LinusN> no
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09.27.17 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: without a transparent bmp for <16bit these icons are going to look horrible, unless lcd_mono_part will skip the white pixels?
09.28.13 #       <amiconn> lcd_mono_bitmap[_part] obeys the draw mode
09.28.30 #       <amiconn> So if you use DRMODE_FG, it does what you want
09.28.40 #       <JdGordon> ok cool
09.29.11 #       <amiconn> But the bitmap drawing unification will bring transparent bitmaps for all bitmap targets
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09.32.10 #       <SliMM> JdGordon: why don't you draw the image pixel by pixel and test if RGB_UNPACK_RED, RGB_UNPACK_GREEN and RGB_UNPACK_BLUE are equal to 255?
09.32.57 #       <JdGordon> because thats slow, and not a job for the ui code... the lcd code should do that
09.33.36 #       <SliMM> if that is slow, what is faster than that?
09.34.13 #       <SliMM> for drawing a bitmap, you still have to scan all the pixels, no matter what
09.35.03 #       <JdGordon> right, so that should be done by the lcd driver which has to do it anyway... not in the ui code
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09.37.30 #       <SliMM> it should be, but because it isn't, you can do it in the ui code
09.38.41 #       <JdGordon> display->mono_bitmap_part isnt playing nice
09.39.05 #       <JdGordon> SliMM: No, i use the correct function and wait for proper tranparency in the targets without it
09.39.32 #       <SliMM> ok :)
09.40.12 #       <SliMM> when will semi-transparency be implemented on colour targets?
09.40.43 #       <B4gder> semi?
09.40.45 #       <JdGordon> soon hopefully :p
09.40.59 #       <B4gder> there's guy who posted some screenshots in the forum
09.41.24 #       <B4gder> he did transparancy-drawing functions and a plugin that used them
09.41.26 #       <SliMM> i belive that that guy is me
09.41.31 #       <B4gder> ah
09.41.36 #       <B4gder> hehe
09.41.41 #       * B4gder has full control
09.42.44 #       <SliMM> but what should i do (after finishing the bitmap functions) for them being implemented in the plugin api?
09.43.07 #       <B4gder> post them to the patch tracker and nag committers to commit it
09.43.11 #       <SliMM> asm or however is needed for the best performance
09.43.21 #       <SliMM> ok
09.43.25 #       <B4gder> wait for jsMike ;-)
09.43.35 #       <SliMM> jsMike?
09.43.52 #       <pondlife> jhMikeS?
09.44.03 #       <B4gder> gee, I need more coffee
09.44.12 #       <pondlife> B4gder: We all do
09.44.21 #       <SliMM> i don't
09.44.23 #       <SliMM> :P
09.45.40 #       <petur> bah, my subscription for the mentor mailing list is 'still pending'
09.46.31 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: Do you have a link to your forum post?
09.47.10 #       <SliMM> yes, but i haven't yet finished bitmap fcs
09.47.41 #       <SliMM> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9491.0
09.50.37 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: I'm not sure if asm will help those functions that much - I think you should be dealing with the native pixel format (i.e. rgb565) directly, not converting back and forwards between that and rgb888.
09.51.11 #       <SliMM> that is no problem, but it will only work on 16 bpp targets
09.51.30 #       <linuxstb> We only have 16bpp targets...
09.52.03 #       <SliMM> right.. :) i missunderstood
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09.52.20 #       <tucoz> hello
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09.52.48 #       <linuxstb> There are two different pixel packing formats for 16bpp LCDs though - "RGB565" and "RGB565_BYTESWAPPED".  The second contains the high and low bytes in reverse order.
09.52.50 #       <SliMM> now, i belive that ipod nano has a different colour layout
09.53.05 #       <linuxstb> Yes, the Nano has the byte-swapped version.
09.53.24 #       <SliMM> so red is blue and viceversa?
09.53.28 #       <linuxstb> No.
09.53.34 #       <SliMM> than?
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09.53.41 #       <LinusN> SliMM: byteswapped
09.54.03 #       <SliMM> doesn't ring any bells
09.54.10 #       <LinusN> GGGBBBBB RRRRRGGG
09.54.23 #       <SliMM> ah, better
09.54.28 #       <LinusN> iirc
09.54.45 #       <tucoz> linuxstb, did you see that guy who came in here the other day saying he had made the made the ipod lcd-driver much better?
09.55.03 #       <LinusN> "better"?
09.55.11 #       <tucoz> yes, as in faster
09.55.17 #       <B4gder> new logo! ;-)
09.55.20 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: But you don't need to worry about that.  Either byte-swap the value before and after you process it, or use the macros in lcd.h to extract and combine the separate values.
09.55.20 #       <tucoz> hehe
09.55.32 #       <LinusN> B4gder: yes, and rewritten in c++
09.55.34 #       <linuxstb> Which ipod?
09.55.41 #       <linuxstb> And no, I didn't see that.
09.55.46 #       <tucoz> i am not sure. i'll try to find the log
09.55.58 #       <SliMM> linuxstb: ok :)
09.56.12 #       <tucoz> he was coding a demo, and wanted to get mp3-playback working from a plugin
09.56.28 #       <SliMM> now.. i think i'll be off for a while
09.56.39 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: These kind of functions probably won't benefit from asm too much, the trick is to write them in C with the very minimum number of operations you can.
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09.56.53 #       <SliMM> i can do that
09.57.03 #       <SliMM> or at least try
09.57.33 #       <JdGordon> is gcc smart enough to not really create an array if it is delecred int array[1] ?
09.57.41 #       <linuxstb> You may also want to add them as part of the plugin lib - see all the xlcd_* files in apps/plugins/lib/ - "xlcd" is the convention for prefixing plugin LCD functions which are not part of core rockbox.
09.57.45 #       <B4gder> SliMM: and when you post your patch, i'm sure others can join up and help improving it
09.57.55 #       <SliMM> but for that, the semi-transparent bitmaps should have a black background
09.58.06 #       <SliMM> instead of magenta
09.58.16 #       <tucoz> linuxstb, http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20070408.txt from 16.00 ff
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09.58.37 #       <SliMM> to eliminate all the IFs
09.58.47 #       <tucoz> 16.02.31 #       <Neovanglist> I'm doing a demo on the ipod5g and rockbox, and I rewrote your LCD driver
09.58.53 #       <tucoz> 16.02.52 #       <Neovanglist> it's considerably faster now... but there is still so much more to do with that chip that I haven't sorted out yet
09.59.16 #       <linuxstb> tucoz: Did he say anything else apart from that?  He seems to have quickly moved onto other things...
09.59.39 #       <pondlife> Getting Linux to run on his Zune?
09.59.42 #       <pondlife> ;)
09.59.44 #       <tucoz> no, i don't think so. I hoped that you would be present at the time he was there
10.00.04 #       <linuxstb> I think I was, but missed his first line...
10.00.46 #       <linuxstb> I guess we'll just have to wait and see if a patch appears on flyspray.
10.01.03 #       <SliMM> lee's algorithm can't wait anymore, bye
10.01.04 #       <tucoz> lets hope he made the lcd-driver considerably faster, and that we will see a patch for that some time
10.01.05 #       <JdGordon> grr... the remote is causing me much pain :'(
10.01.20 #       <LinusN> :-)
10.01.57 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: i don't understand your question about the array
10.03.14 #       <JdGordon> well, if the array is only length 1, is there any difference in speed/size by having to do var[0] as apposed to just var? and if there is, is gcc smart enough to do that?
10.03.32 #       <markun> B4gder: I get a database error while searching the forum..
10.03.44 #       <markun> are you the admin I have to report it to?
10.03.48 #       <B4gder> nope
10.03.52 #       <B4gder> LinusN is
10.04.01 #       <LinusN> hang on...
10.04.13 #       <JdGordon> ... because Im creating 6 NB_SCREENS sized arrays...
10.04.24 #       <JdGordon> instead of creating the lcd screen vars seperatly
10.04.50 #       <LinusN> markun: fied
10.04.53 #       <LinusN> fixed even
10.05.11 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: what would be the difference?
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10.05.55 #       <JdGordon> I dont know... dont worry...
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10.06.59 #       <LinusN> i believe gcc would handle that pretty well
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10.08.38 #       <markun> This didn't make it into rockbox yet, right? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9490.msg75624#msg75624
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10.11.31 #       <LinusN> markun: i don't understand, what would "make it into rockbox"+ i don't see a patch
10.11.35 #       <LinusN> ?
10.12.29 #       <markun> LinusN: setting the DEV_EN bits to disable ATA and LCD when they are not used
10.12.32 #       <linuxstb> But it looks like he's figured out how to power-down the ATA?
10.12.53 #       <linuxstb> Does Toni have commit access?
10.12.59 #       <LinusN> who is he?
10.13.15 #       <B4gder> Toni is the sansa emulator guy
10.13.24 #       <B4gder> and no, he doesn't have commit access
10.13.26 #       <LinusN> ah, mr hellman
10.13.29 #       <linuxstb> Didn't he also port the mp3 encoder, amongst other things?
10.13.41 #       <B4gder> yes, he's done quite some good stuff
10.13.51 #       <linuxstb> And various codec optimisations IIRC.
10.16.53 #       <markun> LinusN: so I guess that was a "no" :)
10.17.57 #       <linuxstb> markun: That forum post is less than 24 hours old...
10.18.57 #       <markun> linuxstb: weird, I could have sworn I read it several days ago..
10.19.39 #       <linuxstb> He does say he did the measurements "a few days ago" - so he probably posted the same info elsewhere.
10.20.17 #       <linuxstb> Yes, here - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9655.msg74270#msg74270
10.20.51 #       <markun> yes, I also just found it
10.21.10 #       <linuxstb> But no, there haven't been any patches (afaik), so it's not in SVN.
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10.22.13 #       <tucoz> anyone noticed that when listening to long mp3's (like 40-50min), and resuming playback, the correct position is started but the time in the wps is correct
10.22.26 #       <SliMM> is ++i faster than i++ under arm-elf-gcc?
10.22.30 #       <tucoz> some files that is
10.22.37 #       <linuxstb> I guess you meant to say the wps is incorrect?
10.22.46 #       <tucoz> right :D
10.22.58 #       <linuxstb> Yes, I noticed that with some long (> 60 minute) MP2 files.
10.23.15 #       <linuxstb> Although at the time, someone tested some long mp3 files, and they were fine...
10.23.34 #       <tucoz> yes, i only noticed this with some files
10.23.55 #       <linuxstb> My mp2 files are CBR, maybe that's the difference.  Are your troublesome MP3 files CBR?
10.24.01 #       <tucoz> i think so
10.24.11 #       <tucoz> let me check when i get home.
10.25.05 #       <linuxstb> I _think_ I filed a flyspray report...
10.25.24 #       <tucoz> i think i searched fs for a bug, but didn't find anything
10.25.33 #       <linuxstb> Ah no, someone else did, and I commented - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6768
10.27.03 #       <linuxstb> If you find that vbr mp3 files work, and cbr ones don't that would be useful to add.
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10.27.28 #       <tucoz> yep. i'll add a comment to that report as i get home
10.29.41 #       <safetydan> Anyone want to test a patch that moves hardware eq init into audio_init?
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10.34.14 #       <JdGordon> grr.... now the remote works fine and the main screen icons dont work :'(
10.36.14 #       <JdGordon> w00t.. all working now :D
10.36.59 #       <JdGordon> 255,0,255 is transparent right?
10.38.30 #       <LinusN> yes
10.40.28 #       <midkay> JdGordon: what works? have you got them loading from an on-disk BMP?
10.41.07 #       <JdGordon> not yet, I have them loading the inbuilt icons correctly, which is a good start anyway :p
10.41.34 #       <JdGordon> grr... no, main lcd isnt showing transparent
10.41.34 #       <midkay> have what loading the inbuilt icons already?
10.42.04 #       <JdGordon> the current icons, instead of having to use bmp2rb, its done like the rockbox logo
10.42.24 #       <midkay> bmp2rb'd in the build process, you mean?
10.42.44 #       <JdGordon> yeha
10.43.07 #       <JdGordon> now to fix the broken icons, then get loadable bmps working
10.43.19 #       <JdGordon> then viewers.config and we are done
10.43.29 #       <midkay> ah, that's good anyhow. (in fact if you polish that up it might be a nice halfway commit...)
10.44.03 #       <amiconn> SliMM: Preincrement vs. postincrement shouldn't make a difference, especially not on arm
10.44.06 #       <JdGordon> by polish you mean remove the dozen warnings from the compile
10.44.07 #       <JdGordon> ?
10.44.47 #       <amiconn> But true transparency is a non-no on 16 bit targets, unless someone comes up with a really clever way to apply the transparency without unpacking the pixel word
10.44.54 #       <amiconn> It'd be way too slow
10.44.59 #       <midkay> JdGordon: haha, aside from having everything work correctly, basically yes :)
10.45.30 #       <amiconn> What would be possible would be coarse transparency, like 0/50/100% or maybe even 0/25/50/75/100%
10.46.25 #       <B4gder> I don't see why plugins can't do slow transparency if they like it
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10.46.32 #       <SliMM> amicon: what do you mean by "unpacking the pixel word"?
10.46.51 #       <SliMM> amiconn: what do you mean by "unpacking the pixel word"?
10.47.03 #       <linuxstb> Converting the 16-bit rgb565 value into 3 separate r, g and b variables.
10.47.07 #       <linuxstb> (and back again)
10.47.13 #       <SliMM> oh
10.47.15 #       <amiconn> yeps
10.47.29 #       <SliMM> :-? i'll think of it
10.51.29 #       <JdGordon> midkay: bah, that was too easy, had some types causing icons to not show... should have loadable bmps working soon
10.51.45 #       <midkay> JdGordon: coolness.
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10.52.29 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: actually, do you think it would be better to commit this half-way, without user configurable icons?
10.52.43 #       <JdGordon> actually.. na, ignore that
10.52.51 #       <JdGordon> too much hassle to clean it properly
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10.55.54 #       <amiconn> B4gder: They can, but then it would be a function in the plugin (or perhaps the xlcd plugin lib)
10.56.17 #       <crop> Where is the transparency info stored in BMP's?
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10.57.05 #       <crop> Is it a fourth dimension (RGB + transparency)?
10.57.06 #       <amiconn> 32 bit BMPs can be stored as RGBA afaik
10.57.18 #       <SliMM> so you say i shouldn't use bit shifting for semi-transparency?
10.57.28 #       <amiconn> Usually they are RGBX though (X == don't care)
10.57.51 #       <crop> A stands for transparency?
10.57.55 #       <LinusN> Alpha
10.58.01 #       <SliMM> A stands for alpha
10.58.16 #       <SliMM> the alpha channel is the one responsible for transparency
10.58.41 #       <SliMM> amiconn: so you say i shouldn't use bit shifting for semi-transparency?
10.58.47 #       <crop> Ok, thanks. Now I understand what you'r taling about
10.59.03 #       <crop> *you're talking
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10.59.38 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: width x height x lcd_depth to get the required buffer size?
11.00.40 #       <SliMM> JdGordon: width x height x 16
11.00.42 #       <crop> Why can't the BMP handling be done with simple masks? Or is it still too slow?
11.01.00 ***     Server message 505: 'logbot- :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
11.01.02 #       <SliMM> it is done with simple masks
11.01.02 #       <B4gder> alpha can't be made with masks
11.01.17 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: w*h*depth/8 i believe
11.01.26 #       <SliMM> magenta is 100% transparent
11.01.27 #       <JdGordon> ta
11.01.45 #       <SliMM> and everithing else is 100% opaque
11.02.01 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: I don't think it's that simple - you need to round the sizes up to a multiple of the number of pixels packed together.
11.02.25 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: why do you need to calculate the size?
11.02.44 #       <JdGordon> for the buffer size to be able to load customisable icons sets
11.02.46 #       <SliMM> but for the alpha mask there is a little bit more work
11.03.08 #       <linuxstb> Shouldn't that space be allocated based on the size of the icons being loaded?
11.03.26 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: yes, but why not just let the bmp loader load the image and then see how much buffer space was used?
11.04.35 #       <crop> Yes, I mean the alpha mask. And for the start, it could be values that can be computed fast -- as amiconn said. Only 4 or 8 levels.
11.05.06 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: check load_bitmap() in apps/gui/wps_parser.c
11.05.09 #       <JdGordon> the idea was to give the user a max width and max height for icons which they could load, so they could change without rebooting
11.05.48 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: i think you should handle it just like the wps does it
11.06.02 #       <SliMM> crop: i have already written a function for drawing bitmaps with an external alpha channel
11.06.08 #       <LinusN> i.e don't use buffer_alloc()
11.06.17 #       <SliMM> i'll "publish" it after some polishing
11.06.24 #       <SliMM> but i'm pretty lazy
11.06.42 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: doesnt the wps create a static buffer? so if you dont want the icons your stilll penalised?
11.06.53 #       <crop> Ok, I'd better shut up then and wait for the patch/commit
11.06.58 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: that is true
11.07.14 #       <SliMM> by "external alpha cahannel" i mean an extra grayscale (or redscale) bitmap
11.07.41 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: but i think that is a small price to pay for not having to reboot when you change the theme
11.07.42 #       <amiconn> Few-level alpha can be done by shifting and masking, without unpackingthe pixels
11.07.58 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: ok, means 2 less settings also
11.08.21 #       <amiconn> But that's not feasible for more than 3 or 5 steps
11.08.27 #       <LinusN> it works fine for the wps, so i think it should work for the icons too
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11.08.51 #       <SliMM> amiconn: isn't unpacking the pixels shifting?
11.08.53 #       <amiconn> For more all I can see is that you need to unpack, multiply, and repack, and then it becomes so slow that it's not suitable for the core
11.09.39 #       <amiconn> SliMM: Nope. Unpacking needs shifting, but not all shifting means unpacking the pixels
11.09.51 #       <SliMM> no.. shift, average, shift
11.09.59 #       <amiconn> ?
11.10.09 #       <SliMM> amiconn: unpacking native lcd color is just shifting
11.10.23 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: From an old program of mine: http://www.pastebin.ca/434214 -- however this could be optimized far more than it is
11.10.30 #       <amiconn> No it's not
11.10.52 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: Have you read the logs regarding the mpegplayer problems on dual core targets?
11.11.01 #       <SliMM> amiconn: but what is it?
11.11.11 #       <amiconn> For unpacking, you need to shift+mask the packed pixel to create 3 values: r, g and b
11.11.37 #       <amiconn> Simple transparency can be done without that, working with shift+mask on the packed pixel directly
11.11.44 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: yes...it seems they're not new? I'm not clear
11.12.18 #       <jhMikeS> you can multipy three components at once if the alpha range is 0-31
11.12.25 #       <linuxstb> No, they're new.
11.12.36 #       <SliMM> (color << 5) >> 5 is done without masking :P
11.12.50 #       <linuxstb> Or maybe all you've done is made existing problems 100% consistent...
11.12.51 #       <SliMM> (color << 5) >> 10
11.13.06 #       <SliMM> but anyway
11.13.41 #       <SliMM> i'll  google and see what i can find
11.13.56 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: I'm not suprised, there's not a single dual-core safe bit of code there. Lots of shared data but no NOCACHEBSS stuff
11.14.46 #       <amiconn> Masking or double shift is the same
11.15.16 #       <amiconn> Btw, if you declare a 'short' and then extract bits by double-shifting the way you showed, then it gets even slower on arm
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11.16.37 #       <jhMikeS> The Sansa has dual right? I guess it won't be long before I can get on top of it.
11.16.40 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: All shared variables are (or should be) in IRAM, which isn't cached.
11.16.44 #       <amiconn> Arm has a hard time dealing with 16 bit ints
11.16.45 #       <SliMM> amiconn: i will just use the macros
11.17.01 #       <SliMM> so no shorts?
11.17.21 #       <SliMM> is it working faster with longs?
11.17.42 #       <munzli> hi, any X5 users around? just called varitronix and requested information about ordering a new tft display, interessting to see if they can replace it.
11.17.55 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: Well, maybe I botched something there. Will have a look.
11.18.06 #       <munzli> noticed that the wiki has false information about the hardware component
11.19.42 #       <jhMikeS> I also have to get the stream demuxer right, it can peek ahead into the guard buffer but not have valid data there.
11.21.50 #       <SliMM> similar to the slow-working opacity blending are other blending modes (like multiply, overlay, etc.) that can be implemented in the plugin api
11.23.50 #       <SliMM> http://www.simpelfilter.de/en/grundlagen/mixmods.html
11.24.16 #       <SliMM> just multiply everithing by 255 for fixed point
11.24.29 #       <SliMM> for integer*
11.29.15 #       * jhMikeS reading the logs carefully and trying to get a clue on what the issues may be
11.30.17 #       <amiconn> SliMM: The 'just multiply' still needs unpacking and repacking
11.31.54 #       <SliMM> it does, but so does 50% opacity or any other value (of course not 100% and 0%) i think
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11.34.11 #       <amiconn> No it doesn't
11.34.41 #       <amiconn> 50% opacity can be done with two shifts, two ands, and one addition per pixel
11.34.57 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: The main issue I found (and Llorean confirmed) was that pressing the "MPEG_STOP" button consistently froze mpegplayer.  Selecting quit from the menu works, but the next video played doesn't have any video (just a black screen).  Llorean tested on a Nano, I tested on an ipod Color.
11.35.13 #       <amiconn> That is, for the whole packed pixel, without unpacking + repacking
11.35.16 #       <JdGordon> ok, so who has a sane value for the buffer size for loadable icon sets? or just do lcd widthxlcd hieght?
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11.36.13 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Why not just load a theme at boot-time and grab however much RAM is needed for that particular theme from the audio buffer?
11.36.31 #       <LinusN> linuxstb: i just talked him out of that
11.36.49 #       * linuxstb reads the logs...
11.36.53 #       <JdGordon> ((LCD_HEIGHT*LCD_WIDTH*LCD_DEPTH/8) * (1+NB_SCREENS)) ?
11.36.57 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: I wonder if remove_thread on another thread just doesn't work quite right
11.36.59 #       <JdGordon> thats probably way overkill....
11.37.13 #       <JdGordon> get rid of te 1+
11.37.21 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: well, how high is the largest font?
11.37.33 #       <LinusN> 24 pixels?
11.37.45 #       <LinusN> 16?
11.37.47 #       <JdGordon> dunno... sounds about right
11.37.51 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: (LCD_HEIGHT*LCD_WIDTH*LCD_DEPTH/8)+(LCD_REMOTE_HEIGHT*LCD_REMOTE_WIDTH*LCD_REMOTE_DEPTH/8)
11.38.06 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: I don't think it works if the other thread is on a different core - that's why the video thread commits suicide.
11.38.26 #       <amiconn> LinusN: That depends on the target. rasher.dk has fonts with heights of 24 pixels and more
11.38.44 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Maybe half of that is enough
11.38.51 #       <jhMikeS> it still does...it's not even safe on the same core in all situation. I think the audio thread should too. It's really the only safe method.
11.38.54 #       <LinusN> ok, so assume that the max icon size would be 24*24 pixels
11.38.58 #       <SliMM> what do you think about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaolin_Wu's_line_algorithm
11.39.00 #       <SliMM> ?
11.39.05 #       <jhMikeS> But the video thread committing suicide is a race condition anyway
11.39.12 #       <JdGordon> ok, 24x24 it is
11.39.13 #       <LinusN> then multiply that with the max number of icons
11.39.22 #       <pondlife> jhMikeS: Does the problem occur on the simulator?
11.39.42 #       <JdGordon> actually.. should that max be put in the configs?
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11.39.58 #       <pondlife> Might be worth a sanity check, in case it's not a remove_thread problem...?
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11.40.31 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: anywhere you feel is best
11.41.34 #       <SliMM> JdGordon: when will you finish this icon thing? i can hardly wait :D
11.42.19 #       <JdGordon> shouldnt be long.. except we still have to figure out how to handle viewers.config
11.43.21 #       <jhMikeS> pondlife: I haven't checked the sim. I do know a sequence that would guarantee the video thread to be in core code before an exit happens though.
11.43.43 #       <SliMM> how large will the icons be?
11.44.54 #       <JdGordon> SliMM: as large as you want.. anything from 1x1 to 24x24
11.45.45 #       <SliMM> i can search for some simple good-looking icons
11.46.16 #       <SliMM> and there should be a custom viewers.config, don't you think?
11.46.17 #       <jhMikeS> 1) Kill the video thread and wait for it to signal it is about to kill itself. 2) Wait for audio thread to die (it can suicide too to be safe) 3) Delay long enough for video thread to suicide...a small delay long enough for it to call remove_thread(NULL).
11.48.11 #       <jhMikeS> just step two should guarantee to have step 3 completed by the time it's done but waiting a tick will be sure.
11.50.26 #       <jhMikeS> Can interrupts be disabled deliberately on the other core?
11.50.28 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: have you seen this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6964 ?
11.51.26 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: No, but I was around when Toni discussed it in IRC with amiconn.
11.52.08 #       <barrywardell> ah, ok. maybe that's the reason for the bad sound quality on H10 too
11.52.51 #       <linuxstb> Very probably.
11.52.54 #       <jhMikeS> I'll also double check the audio clock stoppage.
11.54.04 #       <jhMikeS> I'll do all that and commit an update since it's much more sound in any case anyway
11.55.43 #       <barrywardell> linuxstb: but nobody found a solution yet?
11.56.17 #       <amiconn> Does the cop even have interrupts enabled? Afaik it doesn't...
11.56.32 #       <linuxstb> I think it does - it needs them for sleep and yield to work.
11.56.43 #       <linuxstb> Sorry, for sleep to work.
11.57.23 #       <linuxstb> barrywardell: I haven't looked at it, I don't know if anyone else has.
11.58.03 #       <SliMM> do i have to use a custom build to have the cop enabled?
11.58.14 Part    tucoz
11.59.13 #       <safetydan> SliMM: no that's been included for a while now
11.59.43 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: well, I just don't want any interrupt when the video thread is racing to get into remove_thread. I guess it's now a problem then and it should be done in a few microseconds.
11.59.54 #       <jhMikeS> s/now/not/
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12.01.14 #       <jhMikeS> never...mind...I responded before reading further :P. Can they be stopped by the audio thread and then reenabled elsewhere?
12.01.35 #       <jhMikeS> I mean video thread...oy :)
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12.08.22 #       <JdGordon> oadable icons sort of almost work :D
12.08.43 #       <jhMikeS> I'll make sure my changes work for me. Anyone want to check a patch on dual core? Should be ready shortly I hope.
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12.14.22 #       <midkay> JdGordon: i'm off to bed.. good luck with that :)
12.14.59 #       <JdGordon> cya
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12.21.43 #       <JdGordon> grr! bloody copy+paste bugs :'(
12.22.12 #       * JdGordon has an incredibly ugly icon set loaded at runtime :)
12.22.39 #       <JdGordon> 8x16.. although not aligned properly
12.24.35 #       <SliMM> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Cezanne+Mimetypes?content=15669
12.24.40 #       <SliMM> nice icons
12.24.52 #       <SliMM> 22*22 pngs are perfect
12.25.02 #       <SliMM> no vector graphics though :(
12.25.31 #       <jhMikeS> ...ok...I'll just commit the changes and wait for word :)
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12.30.12 #       <SliMM> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Krystaline?content=17509
12.30.18 #       <SliMM> another nice icon set
12.30.44 #       <JdGordon> all you need to do is convert them to the correct format and they are loadable
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12.34.26 #       * jhMikeS is gonna see about the USB stuff too
12.34.41 #       <SliMM> won't rockbox have a default icon set?
12.34.52 #       <SliMM> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/FlatSVG?content=17158 for grayscale targets :D
12.35.03 #       <JdGordon> SliMM: the current icons will be built in
12.35.11 #       <SliMM> k
12.35.25 #       <SliMM> so what is the corect format?
12.36.40 #       <JdGordon> http://jdgordon.mine.nu:8080/jonno/screeny.bmp shows the h300 with 2 different icon sets :)
12.37.03 #       <JdGordon> SliMM: its a bit hard to explain, so im going to wiki it a bit later
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12.40.13 NHeal   (timeout) kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
12.40.59 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: impressive screendump :-P
12.42.44 #       <jhMikeS> oh...so after all the arguing with me against it we'll get color icons afterall. :D
12.43.26 #       <B4gder> jhMikeS: you shouldn't discuss such issues with amiconn you know ;-)
12.44.17 #       <jhMikeS> B4gder: I discussed them with JdGordon! ... rotf :)
12.44.29 #       <B4gder> haha
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12.49.14 #       * LinusN commits some real rubbish work
12.51.43 #       * B4gder pretends he's working
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12.53.19 #       <SliMM> should i start working on a cubis-like game?
12.54.57 #       <B4gder> sure, why not!
12.55.04 #       * B4gder has no idea what cubis is
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12.55.23 #       <webguest02> hello?
12.55.30 #       <B4gder> 'ello!
12.56.05 #       <webguest02> how do i get rockbox to play wmv (iriver H10 5gb)
12.56.14 #       <SliMM> i'll probably finish it next year
12.56.22 #       <GodEater> webguest02: by writing a lot of code
12.56.29 #       <B4gder> webguest02: you get the wma patch, fix it, apply it and then run it
12.56.44 #       <LinusN> webguest02: wmv, as in video?
12.56.44 #       <webguest02> wheres that?
12.56.45 #       <GodEater> B4gder: wma, or wmv ?
12.56.48 #       <B4gder> ah
12.56.52 #       <webguest02> wma sorry
12.56.56 Join    crop [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2d81351d6ed998dc)
12.57.03 #       <B4gder> hehe
12.57.08 #       <B4gder> I sensed it!
12.57.09 Quit    miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12.57.21 #       <LinusN> B4gder: you are psychic!
12.57.25 #       <webguest02> lol
12.57.30 #       <webguest02> wheres the patch?
12.57.32 Join    miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@dslb-088-072-225-085.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12.57.34 #       <GodEater> B4gder = Jedi
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12.57.48 #       <B4gder> webguest02: in the patch tracker, but beware it is not ready for use as it is
12.57.58 #       <crop> He. The manual says: %cI Zero padded hour from 12 to 12. Funny. From 12 to 12. The funny thing is that that'r correct!
12.58.00 #       <LinusN> webguest02: that patch is not working yet, it needs a lot of work
12.58.47 #       <B4gder> hopefully we'll have a better wma situation by the end of the summer
12.58.48 #       <SliMM> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4984
12.59.33 #       <webguest02> thx people
12.59.36 Quit    webguest02 (Client Quit)
12.59.37 #       <GodEater> talking of summer
12.59.44 #       <GodEater> is there an update on what projects are going ahead ?
13.00.58 #       <B4gder> I guess nobody caught a "Robert H Lurie" team person yday?
13.01.33 #       <B4gder> or rather early this morning (euro time)
13.01.58 #       <linuxstb> Isn't today "The Day" ?
13.02.00 #       <LinusN> who's that?
13.02.21 #       <B4gder> LinusN: the project who we fight with about our speech student
13.02.22 #       <SliMM> i'll take a look over hotdog
13.02.45 #       <B4gder> "Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center"
13.03.18 #       <linuxstb> I saw in the IRC channel that our student was "below the line" for the other project, so IIUC, it seems that he's ours.
13.03.47 #       <B4gder> I'll email that mentor and ask
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13.06.56 #       <jhMikeS> mpegplayer changes up, hopefully fixes something :P
13.07.19 #       <B4gder> mail away
13.08.09 #       <LinusN> B4gder: filled with nasty threats, i presume? :-P
13.08.47 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13.08.49 #       <B4gder> and hold them we'll send our team of lawyers, bluechip and gl.tter if they don't stand back
13.08.53 #       <B4gder> told even
13.09.25 #       <petur> ooow... gl.tter.... that 'll scare them off
13.10.19 #       * GodEater watches the joke sail miles over his head
13.12.45 #       <B4gder> persons who we've had some conflicts with in the past
13.13.12 #       <markun> jhMikeS: I noticed that mpegplayer hangs after it's finished playing a incomplete file
13.13.30 #       <amiconn> LinusN: Do we have a usable patchset for 16MB targets nowadays?
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13.13.50 #       <GodEater> the name bluechip rings a bell - not heard of gl.tter though
13.14.26 #       <crop> Has anyone used Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition? Is it a good IDE? For RB development at least, I mean.
13.14.57 #       <SliMM> no
13.14.59 #       * B4gder takes a step backwards
13.15.04 #       * petur uses VS.NET 2003 with satisfaction
13.15.25 #       <SliMM> petur: visual c++ 2005 is free
13.15.27 #       <GodEater> the thought of the line ending hassle involved fills me with horror
13.15.53 #       <jhMikeS> markun: still? try again now...I've no incomplete files but I guess it's not hard to just chop one short
13.16.02 #       <crop> GodEater: can't vc++ handle unix eol?
13.16.11 #       <SliMM> crop: just use the vmware player with rockbox's debian development environment, it's very good
13.16.15 #       <LinusN> amiconn: it only loads the wavs it needs, so the total patchset size doesn't matter
13.16.21 #       <GodEater> crop: I think it reads them - I don't think it saves them though
13.17.01 #       <crop> GodEater: I use windows (cygwin) with native eols, so that wouldn't be a problem for me
13.17.05 #       <petur> VS always saves with cr/lf endings, but if you use tortoisesvn, all your files are like that anyway
13.17.10 #       <SliMM> and write your code with notepad++ :)
13.17.35 #       <markun> jhMikeS: I don't have such a file right now, but I will try later
13.17.47 #       <crop>  petur: does it have features like "go to func definition" and the like?
13.17.58 #       <SliMM> crop: vmware player is the best for developing rockbox under windows
13.18.09 #       <crop> or "find all callers of the func"?
13.18.31 #       <crop> SliMM: I've never heard about that
13.18.40 #       * crop goes looking
13.18.43 Join    Mr [0] (n=Meszanto@220-244-208-158-sa-pppoe.tpgi.com.au)
13.18.48 #       * jhMikeS would just like to know if the dual-core problems still happen...if so, it's something else and it will be hunted down
13.18.49 #       <petur> crop: my version doesn't, unless I would make a project file for all rockbox files...
13.18.51 #       <SliMM> crop: just take a look in the wiki\
13.18.55 #       <Mr> okay can I get some help?
13.19.12 #       <SliMM> mr: dunno
13.19.48 #       <crop>  petur: what features do you like then? Code coloring?
13.19.58 #       <Mr> well, i wanna put a playist I have in Winamp
13.20.02 #       <Mr> into Rockbox
13.20.04 #       <Mr> possible?
13.20.52 #       <SliMM> i don't use winamp... so i don't know, but i think it's pssible
13.20.59 #       <Mr> well
13.21.01 #       <petur> crop: that and the search, and the keyboard shortcuts I'm used to... and I'm too lazy to install another editor
13.21.03 #       <Mr> what about from iTunes
13.21.15 #       <Mr> i have the playlist in both
13.21.17 #       <SliMM> are the files on your hard disk or on your player?
13.21.30 #       <Mr> me?
13.21.38 #       <SliMM> mt: yes
13.21.41 #       <SliMM> mr*
13.21.43 #       <Mr> both
13.21.46 #       <crop>  petur: but every text editor can that. Any C specific features?
13.22.15 #       <petur> not that I use
13.22.17 #       <SliMM> the playlist points to the files on your harddisk or to the files on your player?
13.22.26 #       <Mr> hard disk
13.22.47 #       <petur> crop: maybe the intellicrap is better in 2005
13.22.58 #       <Mr> the iPod has iTunes songs on it, i jsut converted to RockBox like and hour ago
13.23.03 #       <crop>  petur: intelli what?
13.23.11 #       <Mr> and im quite impressed, but still i need the playlist
13.23.28 #       <petur> crop: this automatic name completion, function arguments,... stuff
13.23.35 #       <SliMM> mr: than use the database featur..
13.23.40 #       <SliMM> feature*
13.23.45 #       <Mr> what do you mean?
13.23.49 #       <Mr> it detected the songs
13.24.05 #       <Mr> but if it is meant to find Playlists
13.24.07 #       <Mr> it didn't
13.24.08 #       <GodEater> playlists on rockbox'd ipods where people insist on keeping the original iTunes music are next to useless
13.24.13 #       <crop> petur: ah, so the editor knows the funcs etc... That's really nice. I'll try it then.
13.24.24 #       <GodEater> since all the filenames in the playlist are unintelligible
13.24.41 #       <GodEater> just my 2 cents
13.24.50 #       <Mr> crap
13.25.00 #       <Mr> there has to be another way
13.25.10 #       <GodEater> there is, load all the music by drag and drop
13.25.11 #       <Mr> other than adding each song individually
13.25.17 #       <SliMM> mr: just use copypod and save your files frop the ipod to.. the ipod
13.25.19 #       <GodEater> and forget using itunes
13.25.32 #       <Mr> what's copypod?
13.25.33 #       <SliMM> from*
13.25.50 #       <Mr> say lemme guess giyf?
13.25.52 #       <linuxstb> I expect that the playlist viewer will eventually be able to display information from the database (where its available), so the situation may get better in the future.  But the best way to use Rockbox is to only use Rockbox...
13.25.57 #       <GodEater> Mr: http://www.copytrans.net/
13.26.20 #       * GodEater agrees with linuxstb 
13.26.26 #       <pixelma> Mr: maybe this thread can help? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=8039.0 (don't even have an ipod myself...)
13.26.43 Quit    crop ("CGI:IRC")
13.27.13 #       <pixelma> and I'm not sure if that's what you want to do
13.27.19 #       <Mr> so, will this change the music filesystem or what?
13.27.37 #       <Mr> then I can add the playist off the pc and change the driver?
13.27.44 #       <Mr> drive*
13.28.20 #       <GodEater> from what I can tell, you'll end up with two copies of your music on your iPod if you use SliMM's solution
13.28.25 #       <GodEater> so it's not one I'd recommend myself
13.28.52 #       <SliMM> godeater: he can delete his old music afterwards
13.29.02 #       <linuxstb> Don't you simply need to rename the files on the ipod according to their tags?  There must be lots of tools to do that.
13.29.22 #       <SliMM> mp3tag is very good
13.29.35 #       <SliMM> brb, it's lunch time :)
13.29.41 #       <Mr> where are you?
13.29.47 #       <GodEater> linuxstb: easiest way would be to just copy the iTunes music directory from the PC to the iPod. And delete all the iPod_Control nonsense
13.30.01 #       <GodEater> no renaming / tagging required
13.30.19 #       * GodEater also goes to lunch
13.30.20 #       <Mr> and then if I decide to switch back, just "restore" the ipod i guess
13.30.20 #       <linuxstb> Assuming they're named sensibly on the PC...
13.35.03 Quit    petur ("worrrk stkov")
13.35.47 #       <SliMM> back
13.36.45 #       <SliMM> mr: this is what i did a year ago, when i first used rockbox
13.36.45 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: Had a nice lunch?
13.37.03 #       <SliMM> linuxstb: pretty nice :)
13.37.28 #       <SliMM> mr: i was using rockbox just for fun
13.37.51 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: I'm just testing the latest mpegplayer on my ipod now...
13.37.53 #       <SliMM> mr: showoff etc and planning on switching to rockbox at sometime in the future
13.37.56 Quit    jmspeex (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13.38.22 #       <SliMM> but i plugged my ipod into the computer once, and itunes deleted everithyng :))
13.38.36 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: ok. I also have an update coming so it handles create_thread failure right
13.39.02 #       <SliMM> it wasn't so hard after that to switch to rockbox
13.39.38 #       <SliMM> you should try it if you can't find a program you like
13.39.41 #       * jhMikeS will just wait for word and try to address any other problems too
13.39.45 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: I get exactly the same freeze when pressing STOP...
13.40.17 #       <jhMikeS> but the menu exit is ok? what about the failure to play the next video correctly?
13.40.42 #       <linuxstb> Just about to test that now...
13.40.51 #       <safetydan> LinusN: I'm fairly certain the simulator can handle sample rates other than 44100 if you wanted to change that #ifdef in the midi plugin
13.40.54 Quit    Ribs (Remote closed the connection)
13.41.04 #       <LinusN> safetydan: it's a performance issue
13.41.19 #       <jhMikeS> I think I found a good local price on the Sansa e260 and will try to get my butt out and get it today
13.41.50 #       <LinusN> safetydan: and i don't think we are interested in lower sampling rate in the sim
13.41.56 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: No change there either - I still get audio and a black screen when playing a second video.
13.43.03 #       <safetydan> LinusN: righto then
13.43.55 #       <jhMikeS> ok, that's just wierd
13.44.20 Quit    Mr ()
13.44.22 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: Let me do a make clean and double-check that the new version is running...
13.44.24 #       <jhMikeS> does the problem occurr after using any other plugin beforehand?
13.44.41 #       <jhMikeS> something big and IRAM using that is
13.44.43 #       <linuxstb> I haven't tried.
13.44.57 #       <SliMM> how do i use the "lib" folder for adding features to the plugin api
13.45.02 #       <SliMM> ?
13.45.23 #       <JdGordon> jhMikeS: I dont remember talking about colour icons with you before?
13.46.04 #       <jhMikeS> JdGordon: in email? you talked about the contrast against backgrounds?
13.46.28 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: Look at the existing xlcd* files, and then look at a plugin that uses them - e.g. bubbles
13.46.49 #       <SliMM> k, thanx
13.46.51 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: I think you could add your functions to xlcd.h and define them in xlcd_alpha.c
13.47.03 Quit    miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13.47.08 #       <jhMikeS> I have two theories right now: 1) something isn't initialized that should be so old data is left. 2) scheduler problem that timing changes brought on
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13.47.22 Quit    safetydan (Remote closed the connection)
13.47.37 #       <linuxstb> You then need to add xlcd_apha.c to apps/plugins/lib/SOURCES and #include "xlcd.h" in your test plugin.
13.47.38 #       <SliMM> i'll do that
13.48.54 #       <SliMM> it's holiday, so i'll find some tomie for doing finishing my "work"
13.48.55 #       <jhMikeS> theory 3 of 2: something stupid I did
13.53.53 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: btw, does framelimiting have to be on to get the black screen?
13.54.07 #       <linuxstb> Again, I haven't tested...
13.54.09 #       <SliMM> so i use _xlcd_rb as the plugin api
13.54.17 #       <linuxstb> But I have it on.
13.54.20 #       <SliMM> plugin api pointer
13.54.45 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: From within lcd_alpha.c, yes.
13.54.55 #       <linuxstb> ^xlcd_alpha
13.55.00 #       * pixelma is listening to some midis on M5 :)
13.55.31 #       <SliMM> i'll do this later today, i need to take a walk now
13.55.33 #       <SliMM> bye
13.56.08 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: With frame-limited disabled, I still get a black screen on the second video.
13.56.26 #       <linuxstb> The menu doeesn't work either...
13.56.27 Quit    SliMM (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13.56.39 #       <jhMikeS> ok, so it's not stuck looping but something else
13.57.57 #       <linuxstb> I tried running pacbox (which uses IRAM), followed by mpegplayer, and it works fine.
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13.59.13 #       <jhMikeS> ok
13.59.51 #       <jhMikeS> it seems to take awhile to stop using the stop button on gigabeat too...longer than it should imo
14.01.26 #       <jhMikeS> but that just seems to be it waiting for the audiobuffer to empty out
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14.07.50 #       <aliask> JdGordon: Can I pick your brain about something with the menu's?
14.08.11 #       <JdGordon> shoot
14.08.38 Join    Siltaar [0] (n=Siltaar@193.52.208.229)
14.08.41 #       <kahn> has anyone got really slow transfer rates with ipod nanos under windows? everythings great just somethings majorly stuffed the usb rate. any ideas?
14.09.18 #       <aliask> Is there a macro similar to STRINGLIST that can accept variable values?
14.09.41 #       * jhMikeS is likely off to CircuitCity momentarily
14.09.46 #       <JdGordon> the root menu does that....
14.09.58 #       <JdGordon> MENUITEM_RETURNVALUE
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14.10.11 #       <JdGordon> you have to build the menu the hard way though
14.10.53 #       <aliask> Ah Ok. So you need to do the MAKE_MENU bit as well then
14.10.55 Join    himitsu_ [0] (n=himitsu@61.213.185.49)
14.11.08 #       <aliask> Thanks :)
14.13.00 #       <aliask> Anyone ever play a game called "super domination". Really old dos game...
14.13.15 #       <JdGordon> not I
14.13.38 #       <linuxstb> kahn: That's widely reported as an issue when using Apple's "emergency" disk mode on the Nano - which is what Rockbox reboots into when you attach a USB cable.  If you start the main Apple firmware before inserting USB, you should get faster transfers.
14.13.56 #       <kahn> cheers
14.13.59 #       <aliask> It's seriously fun. I'm making a rockbox clone. Hopefully if I clean it up enough I'll submit it to the tracker.
14.14.39 #       <bluebrother> anyone in here worked with a BDI200 by Abatron?
14.15.11 #       <B4gder> no, but i hear it is a good beast
14.15.42 #       <bluebrother> I'm using one at uni and I really like it. I'm just searching how I can flash a chip using that thing
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14.16.08 #       * B4gder is stuck with printk() debugging...
14.16.08 #       <bluebrother> (and as usual here at uni, nobody around knows that. grrr.)
14.16.46 #       <linuxstb> Forget that, wire it up to your Mini...
14.16.53 #       <JdGordon> :'( Im stuck with the "initialization from incompatible pointer type" but both pointers are the same
14.17.13 #       <bluebrother> I would like to, but I can't that that thing home :''-(
14.17.27 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Obviously gcc disagrees...
14.18.33 #       <JdGordon> ok, so aparently there is... gcc cant count!.. the warning message says the problem is 2 lines below the actual one
14.19.18 Quit    bun-bun ()
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14.23.56 #       <jhMikeS> hrm...now I just have to wait till 10:00am to pick it up :P
14.27.41 #       <JdGordon> well, I have an odd bug, on the h100 sim, the remote icons are drawn correclty, but the main screen icons are not, both using the default set and the same code to draw them!
14.30.39 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: any idea what might be the problem?
14.31.14 #       <JdGordon> the main screen icons are drawn double the size, but only the top half
14.31.34 #       <linuxstb> What formats are the bitmaps, and what functions are you using to draw them?
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14.32.17 #       <JdGordon> native so unsigned char *, and with mono_bitmap_part
14.32.34 #       <linuxstb> That's the problem - you can't draw native bitmaps using the mono_bitmap* functions...
14.32.49 #       <linuxstb> It works on the remote by chance - because "native" is mono.
14.32.57 #       <markun> preglow: looks like I will see Autechre life for the first time this summer!
14.33.06 #       <JdGordon> oh? bah
14.33.09 #       <JdGordon> what do I use?
14.33.23 #       <webguest14> hi, is the iriver H140 capable of PLAYING 24bit/48kHz WAv-files? thx for your help, Arni
14.33.31 #       <linuxstb> Just the normal bitmap functions (not prefixed by mono).  If you want transparency, use those functions.
14.34.13 #       * JdGordon looks forward to when all these will be merged into one function :p
14.34.39 #       <bluebrother> webguest14: afaik the hardware does't support more than 16 bits, so you would need to resample
14.35.15 #       <linuxstb> It also only plays at a maximum of 44.1KHz...
14.35.29 #       <JdGordon> bitmap_part crashes when it tries drawing the remote... do I use mono_bitmap_part for that and bitmpa_part for the main screen?
14.35.41 #       <linuxstb> So yes, Rockbox plays 24-bit/48KHz files, but converts them to 16-bit/44.1KHz before sending the data to the DAC.
14.36.08 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: bitmpa won't work :P
14.36.28 #       <JdGordon> it will... thats my modified mpa codec...
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14.36.38 #       <JdGordon> rearragnign the letters also seems to work
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14.37.39 #       <JdGordon> time to get a patch onto the tracker I think
14.38.04 #       <JdGordon> is there a special way to add a binary file to svn?
14.38.19 #       <B4gder> no
14.38.24 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Are you using the "screen" API, or the lcd functions directly?  IIRC, I tried to use the screen API for the USB logo when I converted it to use the bmp2rb build system, but there were lots of problems, so I just avoided it.  I can't remember exactly what the problems were though....
14.38.39 #       <JdGordon> I'm using the screen api
14.39.13 #       <linuxstb> Maybe this will need to wait until amiconn's bitmap drawing changes...
14.39.30 #       <JdGordon> which will come before or after viewports? :p
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14.42.15 #       <linuxstb> My commit 11208 was this - "Revert change to screen_access.c (adding the native-bitmap drawing function) that caused warnings on the H3x0.  We now draw the USB logo using the normal lcd_bitmap() and lcd_remote_bitmap() functions instead of the screens API, which doesn't handle the differing bitmaps types well."
14.43.16 #       <linuxstb> IIRC, the problem was that the bitmaps have different types for the main screen and remote on the H300 - 16bpp (packed into a short) for the main screen and 2bpp (packed into a char) for the remote.
14.44.09 #       <JdGordon> the screen api doesnt set all of the *_bitmap_* functions to anything for the remote which caused the crash, so it should be safe
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14.45.39 #       <linuxstb> That's the problem - it should map all the functions for the remote, but can't.
14.45.58 #       <linuxstb> (because their types are different)
14.46.56 #       <jhMikeS> the i2s can support 16,18 and 20 bits and the PDOR1 and PDOR2 registers support 20 bits per channel and the iis2 channel is configurable to use PDOR1 and PDOR2 so 20 bit output looks workable
14.48.14 #       <jhMikeS> come to think of it, with low latency we'd not have to interleave the data and could leave it 32-bits on output
14.48.18 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: right, but if the functions which are mapped correctly are used, it shoudl be ok?
14.48.50 #       <jhMikeS> I don't know if DMA supports it though :\
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14.51.36 #       <pixelma> LinusN: minor issue with midiplay - it doesn't "tell" the system that something is running, that's a problem if your midi would play longer than the idle poweroff time...
14.51.59 #       <JdGordon> fs 7013 for anyone interested
14.52.11 #       <linuxstb> jhMikeS: BTW, what's the prefered output format for codecs now?  interleaved or non-interleaved?
14.53.32 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: Yes, but if you call different functions for different screens, you may as well just not use the screens api at all...
14.54.17 #       <JdGordon> thats true, ok, so only the remote lcd function needs to be handled seperatly right?
14.54.38 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: DMA only allows 16 bit samples on cf, that's why we don't do 20 bit
14.55.31 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: q&d instead of fixing things? :/
14.56.05 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: ok...I was looking and appeared that way. Not that the S/N ration really makes it worth it.
14.57.12 #       <linuxstb> q&d?
14.57.51 #       <jhMikeS> linuxstb: it's non-interleaved
14.58.06 #       <JdGordon> quick and dirty /me guesses
15.00.03 #       <linuxstb> JdGordon: I didn't suggest you avoid fixing the screens api though...
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15.00.35 #       <JdGordon> haha, no, that should definatly wait for amiconn's lcd rework
15.00.36 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: what icons could be used on the M5/X5 remote? (it's greyscale)
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15.01.20 #       <JdGordon> umm, does the white come out as transparent on them?
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15.01.57 #       <pixelma> don't know, I don't own such a remote
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15.02.44 #       <JdGordon> checking in the sim
15.03.22 #       <LinusN> pixelma: ah, yes, i'll see if i can fix that somehow
15.06.36 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: ok, now I see what your talkign about... didnt know we had two different remote lcd formats... for the time being we'll just have to use some naughty ifdeffing
15.06.53 #       <linuxstb> q&d?
15.07.41 #       <JdGordon> yep
15.08.05 #       * JdGordon checks out the usb screen code to see how to do q&d the correct way :)
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15.12.53 #       <kahn> bah sorry to act nub but without removing rockbox how can i boot into apples firmware to solve the transfer rate issue. even a linky would be good =)
15.14.24 #       <linuxstb> Either hold MENU or turn the hold switch on immediately your ipod boots (i.e. before backlight comes on)
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15.14.47 #       <linuxstb> Or probably just turning the hold switch on in Rockbox, then inserting USB would do the trick
15.17.58 #       <kahn> ah legend
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15.22.22 #       <Forte> ok, i got my mini working
15.22.32 #       <Forte> is it the same installer for video
15.22.56 #       <linuxstb> Yes, but a different rockbox.zip
15.23.03 #       <Forte> k
15.23.07 #       <Forte> i have that mini one
15.23.18 #       <Forte> wheres the installer again
15.23.18 #       <Forte> lol
15.23.23 #       <linuxstb> The fonts are the same though.
15.23.53 #       <linuxstb> The manual has the download link for the installer
15.24.12 #       <Forte> k
15.26.43 #       <XavierGr> Linus: Do you happen to have an H300 open at the moment?
15.28.16 #       <Forte> sweet
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15.28.23 #       <Forte> i have 2 ipods with rockbox now
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15.45.45 #       <Forte> well its dead in here
15.46.31 #       <markun> Forte: ok, then let me congratulate you :)
15.46.40 #       <markun> how do you like rockbox so far?
15.47.25 #       <bluebrother> people tend to do other stuff as well ...
15.48.00 #       <Forte> its great
15.48.06 #       <Forte> my ipod mini actually works now
15.49.45 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: OK, viewers.config is killing this... could we just put those icons in the same file as the rest of the icons? worst case is it adds a few low res icons which wont be used
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16.02.14 #       <linuxstb> Is there a reason to support user-configurable icons in viewers.config at all?  I can't think of a reason why someone would want to add a new icon, just associate existing icons with new extensions.
16.04.47 #       <Siltaar> Hello, I'm looking for Flash memory lifetime information
16.05.17 #       <Siltaar> in order to compare it with HD lifetime
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16.05.32 #       <Siltaar> lifetime in MTBF and/or writing cycles
16.05.56 #       <Siltaar> any idea where to search for it ?
16.07.23 #       <linuxstb> The website of the manufacturer of the flash chips...
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16.08.23 #       <Siltaar> sure... so where to learn which chip is in which player ?
16.08.47 #       <Siltaar> (it's not reported in the DeviceChart page...)
16.09.32 #       <linuxstb> The wiki pages for the individual ports should list the components - see the index here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
16.09.43 #       <B4gder> I think it is a bit too naive to just compare the hdd vs flash chips when thinking mtbf
16.09.52 #       <webguest20> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCY1BIoww8 ;)
16.09.52 #       <linuxstb> For the ipods, information is in the ipodlinux wiki - http://ipodlinux.org/Generations
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16.10.30 #       <ender`> if anybody else has problems building m68k-gcc on amd64, this patch seems to solve them: http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs?view=rev&revision=117181
16.10.50 #       <linuxstb> B4gder: You mean other components will be more likely to fail first?
16.11.05 #       <B4gder> yes, or rather at least risk failing first
16.11.48 #       <B4gder> in today's manufacturing I bet they go for cheap chips that have a limited life expectance, not paying for more than what they need to
16.11.51 #       <ender`> (this should probably be added to the wiki, but i wasn't registered, and it'll take a while for the email to arrive, since we've got greylisting at work)
16.12.38 #       <Siltaar> ok, I'll see, thanks :-)
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16.13.40 #       <Mr> hey guys, im having a slight problem with a theme i loaded
16.14.08 #       <Mr> called blue5g
16.14.38 #       <Mr> the text is not in exactly the right place, as in it shows, but it does not show in the right areas of the screen
16.14.44 #       <Mr> any way to edit these files?
16.15.04 #       <jhMikeS> sansa time! bbl
16.15.10 #       <GodEater> Mr: did you download the font pack ?
16.16.03 #       <linuxstb> Mr: Is that the WPS that says "IMPORTANT: In order for this theme to properly work, you need to have the same patches required for the iPod Green5g theme (again, as mentioned in PiesJulius? original post)." next to the download link?
16.16.34 #       <Mr> i got the font pack
16.16.49 #       <Mr> although I throught the fonts needed were included
16.17.03 #       <Mr> the wording is there, however it is placed wrong...
16.17.39 #       <linuxstb> Huh?  Where do you think the wording should be?
16.17.55 #       <B4gder> I think he means the words on the screen of his ipod
16.18.15 #       <Mr> http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=320x240x16
16.18.29 #       <Mr> go there, half way down, there is something called PJ Blue
16.18.40 #       <Mr> the text is too far to the left, and is getting slightly cut off
16.19.07 #       <linuxstb> Mr: OK, that says "Minimum version: senab build".  That means it won't work with an official build.
16.19.13 #       <B4gder> and you run the senab build?
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16.19.26 #       <Mr> where does it say that?
16.19.34 #       <Mr> crap
16.19.35 #       <Mr> sorryu
16.19.49 #       <Mr> is that a major change?
16.19.58 #       <B4gder> on the page you pointed us to
16.20.18 #       <B4gder> it is a custom build
16.20.26 #       <B4gder> not "official" rockbox
16.20.29 #       <Mr> i see it now
16.21.06 #       <linuxstb> And we can't know all the changes each author of an unofficial Rockbox build has made...  You'll need to ask them.
16.21.12 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Someone might add an own viewer and want a separate icon for it. Or associate different extensions for the same viewer with different icons, where the default viewers.config uses the same one. Or..
16.21.28 #       <Neovanglist> any of the ipod5g guys around?
16.21.42 #       <linuxstb> amiconn: Yes, but my question is does that ever happen in practice?
16.21.43 #       <Mr> so basically without that EXACT one this can be expected
16.22.12 #       <linuxstb> amiconn: I mean, we can still support different extensions, but hard-code the supported filetypes (and hence icons) in the core - the same way as codecs.
16.22.23 #       <Mr> forgive me, im not familiar with how the Ipod Operating System works...
16.22.39 #       <Neovanglist> senab builds are svn + albumart + brightness + cop (optional) + some other misc stuff
16.22.48 #       <amiconn> I'm not sure, but it might. I don't see why we would not want this flexibility here, while in a different place we have more flexibility than (imho) needed
16.23.05 #       <Neovanglist> you can make "senab compatible" builds yourself, you just need go get the patches (which are mostly in the bugtracking system on rockbox.org anyway)
16.23.11 #       <markun> Mr: by ipod OS you mean rockbox?
16.23.14 #       <B4gder> Mr: if you get a theme that is for a custom build, you really should use that build or expect to have to tweak the theme yourself
16.23.24 #       <amiconn> (yes, I'm talking about .wps bitmaps here, and the all-bitmaps-in-a-single-BMP idea)
16.23.33 #       <Mr> say, wait
16.24.06 #       <Mr> the version I have does not specify any specific mods... would you know what program would edit the Themes?
16.24.16 #       <Mr> or any specific version...
16.24.31 #       <B4gder> it said "min version: senab build"
16.24.35 #       <Forte> dude my mini killed me and my friends pcs
16.24.47 #       <B4gder> Mr: and you edit WPSes with any text editor
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16.25.15 #       <markun> Forte: in what way are they killed now?
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16.27.02 #       <Neovanglist> btw, is there a development/coding development channel?
16.27.23 #       <Mr> okay last question for the moment, how do I apply .patch files?
16.27.36 #       <Neovanglist> I have some nitty gritty hardware stuff I'd like to discuss, but it seems there is a lot of noise here :)
16.27.38 #       <B4gder> Neovanglist: this is really the only rockbox channel
16.27.43 #       <B4gder> Mr: see the wiki
16.27.43 #       <Neovanglist> okay
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16.28.19 #       <B4gder> and we love nitty gritty hardware
16.29.23 #       <markun> Neovanglist: so, what's the problem?
16.29.30 #       <tchan> if any rockbox users are still looking for NEW gigabeat F40s, here's a really good price link that I also pasted in #gigabeat: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007U0INM/ref=nosim/?tag=dealnewscom168-20
16.30.18 #       <Neovanglist> markun: not so much a problem, more just some techincal discussion
16.30.42 #       <Neovanglist> I tore into the rockbox source and did quite a lot of work with it recently, and am interested in the iPod 5G hardware
16.30.57 #       <linuxstb> Neovanglist: You're the person who's improved the LCD driver?
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16.31.11 #       <Neovanglist> yea, I more or less rewrote it, but I'm still not sure how "correct" things are
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16.31.20 #       <Neovanglist> also did some fast alpha blitting and lightmask routines
16.31.24 #       <linuxstb> Which part?  The lcd-ipodvideo.c or lcd-16bit.c ?
16.31.42 #       <perl|work> tchan nice price, really
16.31.52 #       <Neovanglist> the one in target ipodvideo I think, the lcd one is less specific iirc
16.32.06 #       <Neovanglist> lcd-16bit that is
16.33.25 #       <Neovanglist> also something should really be done about playing audio from the plugin side :)
16.33.30 #       <markun> Neovanglist: can you make a patch to look at?
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16.33.32 #       <linuxstb> If we ignore anything you've done to lcd-16bit.c, what's changed in lcd-ipodvideo.c?
16.33.40 #       <linuxstb> i.e. what functional improvement is there?
16.33.45 #       <Mr> okay guys all fixed thanks a bunch, lol liek the new intro screen
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16.34.28 #       <Neovanglist> mostly optimization and a better way to pack the stuff/hit the regs
16.34.47 #       <Neovanglist> also I'm not totally sure why you are always using halfworlds when hitting registers
16.35.01 #       <Neovanglist> I guess there was some arm quirkiness with bus width that could require it
16.35.03 #       <linuxstb> No-one is sure about anything when it comes to ipod hardware....
16.35.05 #       <Neovanglist> but 32bit worked quite well for me
16.35.58 #       <Neovanglist> also
16.36.05 #       <Neovanglist> the duffs device in the draw code...
16.36.12 #       <Neovanglist> what the hell? :)
16.36.34 #       <linuxstb> It worked - i.e. it gave a measurable speedup compared to the code it replaced...
16.36.35 #       <Neovanglist> I understand why... but still :P
16.36.56 #       <Neovanglist> yea, it looks like it was so you could do batched stores in variable amounts
16.37.06 #       <Neovanglist> ie, variable loop unrolling
16.37.08 #       <Forte> yeah so my ipod mini died
16.37.11 #       <Forte> again
16.37.17 #       <B4gder> Neovanglist: we usually work interative, we improve things gradually where people like to work on stuff
16.37.31 #       <Neovanglist> nod
16.37.37 #       <linuxstb> Neovanglist: How much of a speedup have you gained with your lcd-ipodvideo.c driver changes?
16.38.01 #       <Neovanglist> well the thing is my driver changes and way of drawing more or less bypassed the entire existing pixel write interface, so they aren't really appliciable at the moment
16.38.09 #       <Neovanglist> I was doing some democoding, and hitting my routines directly from a plugin
16.38.15 #       <Neovanglist> (even though it's not really safe)
16.38.30 #       <Neovanglist> but they did get nice things on screen and with good speedup
16.38.43 #       <Neovanglist> however I didn't do any real benchmarks, could just tell that my stuff was running considerable smoother
16.38.49 #       <Neovanglist> *considerably
16.39.11 #       <linuxstb> Did you remove the "finishup" delay?
16.39.23 #       <Neovanglist> I tried with and without
16.39.33 #       <Neovanglist> I don't really get why it's needed, it "works" without it
16.39.47 #       <Neovanglist> it seems completely unreasonable to me that it should be needed
16.39.51 #       <linuxstb> It doesn't work without it...
16.39.52 #       <Forte> well
16.39.57 #       <Forte> my video is freezing now
16.39.58 #       <linuxstb> You'll get corrupted output on the LCD.
16.39.59 #       <B4gder> to me it doesn't sound like you've tested enough
16.40.11 #       <Neovanglist> worked fine with my stuff, I was drawing uncorrupted video on the LCD without using it
16.40.15 #       <Neovanglist> at least not using it every frame
16.40.31 Quit    inversions ()
16.40.32 #       <Neovanglist> I'm not sure if the rockbox stuff was calling it in the background in another thread or something
16.40.48 #       <Neovanglist> but I had my own code which was sending data to the in port on the lcd controller and manging my own framebuffers
16.40.50 #       <linuxstb> No, all UI stuff is done in the main thread - and plugins run in the main thread.
16.40.53 #       <Neovanglist> and my video worked fine
16.41.06 #       <Neovanglist> I can show my functions if you like
16.41.11 #       <Neovanglist> just would need to grab them
16.41.27 #       <linuxstb> Sure, but it doesn't sound like they'll be applicable to the standard LCD driver.
16.41.34 #       <Neovanglist> sure, which is what I said :)
16.41.56 #       <Neovanglist> however I think there must be a better general way of drawing in general which can yield some benefit
16.42.12 #       <linuxstb> So I'm not quite sure what you're saying - apart from bypassing a device-independent API is giving speed improvements...
16.42.23 #       <Neovanglist> also I've been reading some things that says the broadcom chip has a setup engine and some kind of rasterization ability, however it's impossible to get docs
16.43.11 #       <B4gder> it could have all sorts of magic
16.43.13 #       <markun> Neovanglist: the lack of docs are a problem for all ipod hardware unfortunately
16.43.14 #       <Neovanglist> let me look at my code, I can't remember exactly what the difference are
16.43.41 #       <markun> Neovanglist: can you post a 'svn diff' somewhere?
16.44.25 #       <Neovanglist> like I said, I didn't actually stick a lot of my code in that lcd driver file itself as not to break the rest of rockbox, I was just using my own lcd controller and drawing routines in my plugin, but they are doing the same things the lcd driver is
16.44.34 #       <Neovanglist> setting up the regs, pushing data, etc
16.44.47 #       <linuxstb> I guess the broadcom chip does whatever the firmware it is running is programmed to do.  IIUC, that firmware is stored in the ipod's flash ROM and loaded onto the broadcom chip by the Apple bootloader (also in flash rom)
16.44.51 #       <Neovanglist> so they would have to be worked in still, and like was said above, a lot of the gain may have been api bypassing
16.45.09 #       <Neovanglist> ah, so the dsp is microcoded?
16.45.20 #       <B4gder> coded at least
16.45.25 #       <linuxstb> It's just a general-purpose processor with video DSP features iiuc.
16.45.43 #       <linuxstb> It could probably run the ipod by itself...
16.46.04 #       <markun> :)
16.46.27 #       <Neovanglist> well the reason I brought up dev is because I was interested in starting a collaborative group documentation/reversing effort on ipod
16.46.30 #       <Neovanglist> with the linux guys as well
16.46.40 #       <Neovanglist> so we can build a real register map for both chips, and etc
16.47.10 #       <linuxstb> There's lots of interest in the portalplayer chips amongst the Rockbox devs, but I'm not sure if anyone cares about the Broadcom chip - it's only used in one target.
16.47.26 #       <Neovanglist> I am looking into doing a low level platform sdk for the 5g, similar to ps2sdk (ps2dev.org) for homebrew coding
16.47.34 #       <Neovanglist> and would like to share efforts as far as research goes
16.47.43 #       <Neovanglist> since I can't really use any of your code in my own stuff
16.47.54 #       <linuxstb> You're not going to GPL it?
16.47.56 #       <B4gder> "any" ?
16.48.01 #       <amiconn> Neovanglist: If you run video without the finishup delay it will most likely work because the frame decoding guarantees some delay between lcd updates. That no longer hold if you use it for general stuff
16.48.11 #       <B4gder> so you're writing a new OS too?
16.48.13 #       <Neovanglist> the ps2sdk/pspsdk/etc stuff is traditionally AFL
16.48.22 #       <Neovanglist> and AFL is not GPL compat due to some technicalities
16.48.38 #       <Neovanglist> well the ps2 environment is more just like some low level support stuff you link into your ELF
16.48.44 #       <Neovanglist> it's mostly used for game/demo coding
16.48.54 #       <B4gder> eh, you can't mix anything that isn't GPL compatible with Rockbox
16.49.08 #       <Neovanglist> oh, well if I was commiting to rockbox I would GPL it myself of course
16.49.13 #       <Neovanglist> but I'm porting the ps2dev framework to ipod
16.49.14 #       <B4gder> goodie
16.49.14 #       <Neovanglist> which is AFL
16.49.26 #       <Neovanglist> it's for a different use/purpose than rockbox
16.49.28 #       <linuxstb> That sounds like a nasty license headache...
16.49.42 #       <Neovanglist> yea, but that decision was a long time ago :)
16.49.42 #       <B4gder> Neovanglist: what exactly is the purpose?
16.49.52 #       <Neovanglist> B4gder: homebrew/demo code
16.49.57 #       <Neovanglist> and general platform experiementation
16.49.59 #       <Neovanglist> check out ps2dev.org
16.50.19 #       <Neovanglist> the 5.5G really has a lot of hardware that could be used
16.50.20 #       <B4gder> well, rockbox is also for "homebrew", just not demo
16.50.21 #       <linuxstb> So it basically means you have to write _everything_ from scratch - you can't take any IPL or Rockbox code...
16.50.28 #       <Neovanglist> and is interesting for the same reason PSP, etc is
16.50.51 #       <B4gder> sounds like a ... lot of duplicate work
16.50.59 #       <Neovanglist> linuxstb: sure, but this is nothing different from me than while doing PS2SDK and PSPSDK, etc :)
16.51.11 #       <Neovanglist> it's not going to be an OS, just some lightweight libs to let you bootstrap and runs ELFs
16.51.16 #       <Neovanglist> *run
16.51.18 #       <linuxstb> As B4gder said, a lot of duplicated work...
16.51.28 #       <Neovanglist> and yes, it is, but I don't think it's too bad
16.51.36 #       <Neovanglist> I already have a lot of AFL code to base it on
16.51.38 #       <Neovanglist> from GBA and such
16.51.48 #       <Neovanglist> I'm mostly just interested in getting a good community documentation project going
16.51.54 #       <B4gder> lightweight libs don't work
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16.52.08 #       <B4gder> unless they are GPL compatible of course
16.52.23 #       <B4gder> or not distributed
16.52.30 #       <Neovanglist> like I said, I'm not intending for my project to be a part of rockbox
16.52.40 #       <Neovanglist> it's something else that I'm interested in working on
16.52.52 #       <Neovanglist> I'd just like to get some shared documentation going on
16.52.56 #       <B4gder> I must agree I don't follow you
16.52.58 #       <Neovanglist> so we have a good reference base for development on the platform
16.53.05 #       <B4gder> uh, admit
16.53.08 #       * B4gder can't type
16.53.13 #       <linuxstb> It would just seem simpler to have a reference codebase...
16.53.38 #       * B4gder agrees with linuxstb 
16.53.38 #       <linuxstb> But I would be happy to help contribute to some documentation.
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16.53.57 #       <Forte2> helo
16.54.01 #       <linuxstb> Although I see the license issue coming back again and again and preventing collaboration...
16.54.05 #       <Forte2> my video ipod stalls at the apple screen
16.54.10 #       <Forte2> and my mini crashes pcs
16.54.11 #       <Neovanglist> linuxstb: ?
16.54.27 #       <Neovanglist> documentation is documentation, code created with info from it should not be license tainted in that way...
16.54.38 #       <Neovanglist> the documentation could be under BSD license for all I care
16.54.40 #       <Neovanglist> which is compat with both
16.55.34 #       <Neovanglist> bottom line is I'd just like to make some docs which have stuff like the CPU, DMA, Cache, Memory Map, Registers, etc documented to the best of our ability :)
16.55.42 #       <Neovanglist> so that myself and others can use them to create new cool stuff on the platform.
16.55.45 #       <Neovanglist> without all of the guesswork
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16.56.23 #       <markun> Neovanglist: did you get a lot of response from the ipl guys?
16.56.41 #       <Forte2> lol help
16.56.53 #       <Neovanglist> haven't talked to them yet, intend to do so in the next day or two
16.57.21 #       <Neovanglist> I'm in the process of setting up a site/wiki as part of the ps2dev network which can be used for collaboration and some initial documentation work
16.58.40 #       <B4gder> what's wrong with our or ipl's existing wikis?
16.59.10 #       <B4gder> using ipl's wiki would probably be suitable, seeing as they started the low level hunt
16.59.18 #       <Neovanglist> well I didn't find much updated information there :)
16.59.35 #       <Forte2> im pissed
16.59.35 #       <Neovanglist> they have a memory map but it doesn't look right from what I can tell
16.59.36 #       <B4gder> I don't think there are may low-level iplers
16.59.38 #       <markun> Neovanglist: but because it's a wiki you can do that yourself :)
16.59.39 #       <Forte2> my ipod died
16.59.44 #       <Forte2> both of them
16.59.56 #       <markun> Forte2: weird, what did you do to them?
17.00.13 #       <Forte2> i plugged the mini in
17.00.17 #       <Neovanglist> markun: sure, but I'm not totally sure about what is going on yet myself :)
17.00.18 #       <Forte2> and it killed the video
17.00.21 #       <Forte2> dunno how
17.00.22 #       <Forte2> but it did
17.00.37 #       <markun> the mini killed the video?
17.00.44 #       <Forte2> yeah
17.00.49 #       <Forte2> now the video wont even boot past the apple
17.01.01 #       <Neovanglist> for example, there is a lot of stuff like lcd_bcm_read32(0x1F8);... so what is 0x1F8... someone must know what it is :)
17.01.15 #       <Neovanglist> I've documented some of the 0x3xxxxxxx range stuff myself
17.01.35 #       <Neovanglist> but that was just the obivious stuff from reading existing code
17.01.42 #       <linuxstb> Neovanglist: It's just that there's a lot more to understanding the hardware than listing registers - sharing code is far more productive.  But I understand why you're not using the GPL.
17.01.57 #       <Neovanglist> sure
17.02.10 #       <Neovanglist> well if people would be interested in using it, I could make my own low level hardware code BSD licensed
17.02.14 #       <Neovanglist> instead of AFL
17.02.17 #       <Neovanglist> since that's AFL and GPL compat
17.02.39 #       <Neovanglist> and try to make it in a way that it's usable as a hardware interface library for other projects
17.02.53 #       <linuxstb> I assume the issue is that the people using your library aren't open source people?
17.03.07 #       <Neovanglist> well, lots are
17.03.08 #       <B4gder> I don't see much benefit for Rockbox at the end of this
17.03.21 #       <markun> B4gder: but no loss either
17.03.25 #       <Neovanglist> for example if you look at ps2dev there are quite a lot of other open projects in SVN
17.03.31 #       <Neovanglist> but with demo coding for example
17.03.42 #       <Neovanglist> it's quite customary to just release an executable for the demo competition and that's it
17.03.46 #       <B4gder> markun: it depends if lots of energy and time is spent on it by Rockbox people instead of doing other good things
17.03.53 #       <Neovanglist> well
17.03.57 #       <Neovanglist> the documentation benefits everyone
17.04.36 #       <markun> Neovanglist: if you buy a Gigabeat you don't need to worry so much about secret hardware :)
17.04.43 Quit    Forte (Connection timed out)
17.04.44 #       <Neovanglist> and if there is working license agnostic reference code as a library, then that is also helpful :)
17.05.02 #       <Neovanglist> markun: well the neat thing about stuff like the pspdev/ps2dev projects is that there are tons of people who have the hardware right now and can start playing with things
17.05.11 #       <Neovanglist> I agree that open embedded platforms rock
17.06.04 #       <markun> well, it wasn't exactly an open platform, but most of the documentation could be found online
17.06.20 #       <Neovanglist> nod
17.07.11 #       <Neovanglist> also, as was with the ps2/psp dev communities, once we had a way to start running code and a basic sdk for them to use, we got a large amount of people doing their own apps/demos/games with that code, and ultimately contributing information back into the community
17.08.31 #       <B4gder> I would rather see Rockbox be that platform to run things upon
17.08.49 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17.08.50 #       <B4gder> wouldn't even be limited to just some ipods
17.08.56 #       <Neovanglist> yes but you must understand that your development model is quite different then this other one :)
17.09.10 #       <Neovanglist> this stuff is all about going bare metal and pushing the most out of the hardware for fun/learning
17.09.11 #       <B4gder> I don't think that needs to be an issue
17.09.18 #       <linuxstb> That's very different to Rockbox though - we support so many devices, there's no time to try and squeeze every last cycle out of every platform...
17.09.28 #       <Neovanglist> sure, which is totally understandable :)
17.09.48 #       <B4gder> having people around who did that would improve rockbox on such targets
17.10.17 #       <B4gder> time to run
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17.10.22 #       <perl|work> ipod as a demo platform? please no
17.10.33 #       <markun> perl|work: why do you care?
17.11.01 #       <perl|work> markun haha, i used to be in the "demoscene", oh well
17.11.37 #       <Forte2> ok i got the ipod into disc mode
17.11.40 #       <Neovanglist> perl|work: well it has comparable hardware to newish handhelds which people do demos for now, just more sketchy documentation :)
17.11.43 #       <Forte2> where is the ipod fixer
17.11.46 #       <Forte2> from apple
17.12.00 #       <linuxstb> It's called "itunes"
17.12.52 #       <Forte2> wtf windows said i need to format the drive
17.12.55 #       <Forte2> do i want to do that
17.13.02 #       <Forte2> i think i corrupted it
17.13.18 #       <markun> Forte2: yes, sounds like it
17.13.30 #       <perl|work> Neovanglist speaking of demos, fr-041 is a mindblowing piece of code
17.13.32 #       <markun> were you unpluggin your ipod while copying stuff?
17.13.39 #       <Neovanglist> perl|work: sure is
17.13.42 #       <perl|work> which i saw just yesterday
17.13.42 #       <Neovanglist> perl|work: were you are breakpoint?
17.13.47 #       <Forte2> no but the mini was messign with explorer
17.13.54 #       <Forte2> it crashes it randomly
17.14.00 #       <perl|work> Neovanglist havent been to a party in decades
17.14.09 #       <Neovanglist> ah
17.14.24 #       <perl|work> but that demo, it splits the time to before and after it basically
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17.15.17 #       <Forte2> if i let windows format the ipod
17.15.22 #       <Forte2> can i still fix it back
17.15.25 #       <Forte2> to normal
17.15.40 #       <Neovanglist> well with 2 CPUs and a DSP the 5G is actually quite a bit more powerful then stuff like the gameboyadvance
17.15.47 #       <Neovanglist> and people are even doing 3D software raster demos on that :)
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17.17.14 #       <markun> Neovanglist: isn't the broadcom chip dual core as well?
17.17.26 #       <Neovanglist> dunno, couldn't find any good docs on it
17.17.29 #       <Insectoid[1]> Has anyone done any messing with Flite for Rockbox?  I found a version for IPL ages ago -- I can give a URL (if I can find it again.)  I think it'd be a great alternative to prerecording voice clips.
17.17.37 #       <Neovanglist> but it's being use for some mobile phone/game platforms too
17.17.42 #       <Neovanglist> and has quite a lot of features
17.17.58 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: someone is planning to port flite to rockbox during the summer
17.18.07 #       <Forte2> wow
17.18.11 #       <Forte2> itunes doenst load up
17.18.12 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: although I still would prefer him to port eSpeak :)
17.18.13 #       <Forte2> on vista
17.18.38 #       <markun> Forte2: it sounds more like you have problems with your PCs than with your iPods
17.18.54 #       <Insectoid[1]> Yech.  eSpeak.  I actually know someone that got DECtalk running in IPL.
17.19.35 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: I still think eSpeak has a lot more potential
17.19.48 #       <markun> but he can port whatever he wants of course
17.19.53 #       <Forte2> no
17.20.03 #       <Forte2> my pc is the best laptop on the market
17.20.07 #       <Forte2> when i disconect the ipod
17.20.09 #       <Forte2> itunes loads
17.20.11 #       <Forte2> its the ipod
17.20.18 #       <markun> right
17.20.39 #       <Insectoid[1]> Markun, why eSpeak?
17.20.41 #       <perl|work> markun on-screen unicode keyboard would rock as well :P
17.20.57 #       <markun> perl|work: what do you mean?
17.21.28 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: because it is smaller, supports many languages and it actively being developed
17.21.52 #       <markun> perl|work: the vkeyboard supports unicode
17.21.56 #       <perl|work> well, this idea: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VKeyboardDesignProposal
17.22.15 #       <Insectoid[1]> But when it comes to overall quality... eSpeak just sounds scary.  One of the reasons that a synth would be nice would be reading books, etc.
17.22.42 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: I've read many books with eSpeak
17.22.54 #       <markun> maybe I'm scary :)
17.23.19 #       <Insectoid[1]> Turn my iPod into a portable ebook reader.
17.23.42 #       <markun> Insectoid[1]: you can help with the flite port, then I will do the eSpeak one when I get time
17.24.45 #       <perl|work> markun so there's a way to display a non english keyboard?
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17.25.53 #       <Insectoid[1]> Markun, you're scary.  -- How can I help?
17.26.05 #       <markun> perl|work: yes, just type the chars you want in a text file, give it a .kbd extension and 'run' it
17.26.33 #       <perl|work> markun isnt it ascii ?
17.26.40 #       <markun> UTF-8
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17.26.52 #       <Forte2> wtf
17.26.58 #       <Forte2> these programs are messed up
17.27.00 #       <perl|work> i tried it with cyrillic characters
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17.27.03 #       <perl|work> i didnt work
17.27.07 #       <perl|work> it
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17.27.22 #       <markun> can you show your file?
17.27.40 #       <Forte2> yeah
17.27.43 #       <Forte2> itunes is like
17.27.46 #       <Forte2> frozen
17.27.50 #       <Forte2> and windows is like
17.27.52 #       <Forte2> a dude
17.27.52 #       <Forte2> what
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17.28.42 #       <perl|work> markun its on home computer, ill look into it more
17.28.53 #       <markun> perl|work: let me try something then
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17.29.44 #       <perl|work> markun so basically i can have a random set of characters there, like latin and cyrillic lets say, and use for dict plugin for example?
17.30.41 #       <markun> I've never tried the dict plugin. Does it use the normal vkeyboard?
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17.31.13 #       <Forte2> wow
17.31.15 #       <Forte2> itunes is all
17.31.24 #       <perl|work> markun it does
17.31.27 #       <Forte2> yeah we cant figure out what software to put on the ipod
17.31.30 #       <perl|work> works very good with english
17.36.35 #       <markun> perl|work: do you have any rockboxed player with you?
17.36.37 #       <Insectoid> While copying files to my Ipod, I keep getting messages similar to:
17.36.39 #       <Insectoid> Cannot create or replace :Rubber Soul Data error (cyclic redundancy check).
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17.36.56 #       <perl|work> markun yes
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17.37.04 #       <sent> hi
17.37.09 #       <markun> perl|work: try this: http://130.89.160.166/cyrillic.kbd
17.38.07 #       <Forte2> apparently windows is gonna format it
17.38.12 #       <Forte2> mabey
17.38.12 #       <markun> perl|work: I think we should include some keyboard layouts with rockbox
17.39.24 #       <amiconn> That'll be difficult, with all the various lcd resolutions and possible font sizes
17.39.30 #       <sent> so, new ipod nano (8gb) is not supported, eh?;/
17.39.37 #       <sent> anyone working on that
17.39.39 #       <sent> ?
17.39.42 #       <amiconn> vkeyboard uses the ui font when a .kbd is loaded
17.40.46 #       <markun> amiconn: we could at least supply some for people to hand edit if they want
17.41.23 #       <Forte2> why would you want an 8 gb ipod nano
17.41.29 #       <Forte2> the 30 gb ipod video is like
17.41.33 #       <Forte2> 50 bux more
17.41.38 #       <perl|work> markun ok local usb cable doesnt work, i still have to wait till i get home
17.41.42 #       <markun> Forte2: because it doesn't have any moving parts
17.42.11 #       <sent> Forte, coz I HAVE IT already
17.42.11 #       <Forte2> my ipod is trying to format
17.42.17 #       <sent> so?
17.42.31 #       <Forte2> id think the normal nano stuff should work
17.42.38 #       <sent> I dont really use it anyway... was wanting to put some autoindexing onto it
17.42.41 #       <sent> coz itunes is pain
17.42.48 #       <markun> sent: there is noone actively working on it, but we would like to support it
17.42.54 #       <sent> u reckon I shud try it?
17.43.09 #       <Forte2> dunno
17.43.09 #       <markun> the problem is that it has completely different hardware from all the other ipods
17.43.12 #       <sent> markun, so I better not to try the current version for ipods?
17.43.13 #       <Forte2> all my ipods are dieing
17.43.21 #       <sent> oh, I see
17.43.24 #       <sent> itunes = pain ;/
17.43.26 #       <Forte2> well
17.43.27 #       <markun> sent: no, that would be useless
17.43.30 #       <Forte2> my mini works now
17.43.35 #       <sent> thanx for clearing that out
17.43.36 #       <sent> guys
17.43.36 #       <Forte2> but my video is being stupid
17.43.55 #       <sent> Im a bit upset by this fact tho
17.44.07 #       <markun> sent: and they made it more difficult for us to hack it as well
17.44.27 #       <sent> their work is in progress too ;P
17.44.38 #       <markun> yes, unfortunately :)
17.44.42 #       <sent> haha
17.44.51 #       <sent> yeah, pretty much of a lose ;/
17.44.56 #       <markun> I guess they are afraid of other companies copying their work
17.45.04 #       <sent> yeah, probably
17.45.06 #       <Forte2> formatting the video in progress
17.45.13 #       <Forte2> and rockbox has half fixed the mini
17.45.28 #       <markun> Forte2: just never connect it to a PC and you will be fine :)
17.45.33 #       <sent> any other firmware replacment I could hook onto my nano?
17.45.39 #       <markun> no
17.45.39 #       <Forte2> ipod linux
17.45.45 #       <Forte2> mabey
17.45.47 #       <Forte2> anyway
17.45.51 #       <sent> xp here
17.45.53 #       <Forte2> im gonna nap
17.45.56 #       <sent> xp on a mac ;D
17.45.58 #       <markun> if ipod linux was working we would have a rockbox port in no time
17.46.02 #       <Forte2> and listen to my mini
17.46.29 #       <sent> ok, thanx everyone
17.46.31 #       <sent> peace out
17.47.32 #       <markun> perl|work: can you remember what encoding you used for you .kbd file and in what way it wasn't working?
17.47.48 #       <markun> Insectoid: I'm not sure what you can do right now
17.47.57 #       <markun> to help with TTS I mean
17.48.24 #       <preglow> markun: ooh, when/where?
17.48.34 #       <preglow> i just recently heard a live set from belgium, sounds like good stuff
17.48.43 #       <perl|work> markun i copied the cyrillic characters from the vkeyboard page and it displayed question marks
17.48.45 #       <markun> Insectoid: a first step would be to make a flite (or eSpeak to make me happy :) rockbox plugin
17.48.50 #       <perl|work> on the target
17.48.55 #       <sent> russkie chto li?
17.49.20 #       <markun> sent: even if they are, they will be asked to speak english :)
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17.49.31 #       <sent> well, Im just sking
17.49.34 #       <sent> asking*
17.49.44 #       <markun> preglow: http://dourfestival.be/en/
17.49.52 #       <sent> sure they'll be asked
17.50.19 #       <sent> Im russian anyway ;OP
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17.50.33 #       <markun> looks like a korean emoticon :)
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17.50.46 #       <sent> just some cranky typing
17.51.11 #       <perl|work> markun did you do the same?
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17.51.20 #       <perl|work> for your kbd set?
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17.52.04 #       <markun> perl|work: yes, but notepad2 also gave me questionmarks so I pasted to vim over ssh
17.52.12 #       <perl|work> markun dict plugin is pretty amazing btw heh
17.52.26 #       <markun> never used it
17.52.44 #       <perl|work> tons of free dictionaries and translators
17.52.53 #       <amiconn> There is an old suggestion of mine how to improve the dict plugin
17.53.08 #       <amiconn> Currently it uses 2 (hard coded) files for index+content
17.53.27 #       <markun> preglow: any other interesting bands?
17.53.34 #       <amiconn> It should be possible to put both parts in one file and turn dict.rock into a viewer
17.53.56 #       <amiconn> ...so that you could 'play' multiple dictionaries
17.54.12 #       <cloo> Hi all, I need an advice on my M5. I have no charger, so could USB cable be used instead of it during rockbox install?
17.54.20 #       <markun> amiconn: I was expecting it to work like that already :)
17.54.28 #       <perl|work> markun, aha, vim
17.54.51 #       <Forte2> wow my hdd shuts my music off kinda
17.55.05 #       <Forte2> wtf
17.55.10 #       <preglow> markun: asking me that is somewhat fruitless, since i pretty much listen to everything
17.55.32 #       <markun> preglow: I meant if you saw any nice band at Dour festival
17.55.33 #       <amiconn> cloo: No, and that's independent of rockbox
17.55.49 #       <Forte2> takes a while to format 30 gigs over usb
17.55.50 #       <Forte2> :P
17.55.51 #       <amiconn> You need a proper charger (either M5 charger or X5 charger + sub-pack)
17.55.59 #       <preglow> markun: right, checking out
17.56.18 #       <cloo> thanx alot... dammit.
17.56.52 #       <amiconn> The cowon loader will only flash an m5_fw.bin (which is the rockbox bootloader in our case) if it's booted by plugging the charger. No way around that.
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17.58.29 #       <preglow> markun: i'd check out clark, dj shadow, goldie, krs one, luke vibert, venetian snares and wu tang
17.58.36 #       <preglow> just the ones i saw i know make good stuff
17.58.36 Quit    Insectoid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17.59.10 #       * aliask hearts dj shadow
17.59.15 #       <markun> preglow: and there will be many more bands (over 200 total)
17.59.18 #       <preglow> as you should
17.59.34 #       <aliask> :)
18.00.04 #       <markun> preglow: are you planning to come? I'll buy you a Belgian beer :)
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18.00.51 #       <preglow> haha
18.00.56 #       <preglow> i've already got plans, i'm afraid
18.01.07 #       <preglow> though i need to go to belgium sooner or later
18.01.32 #       <markun> I'll remind you in time next year :)
18.01.51 #       <preglow> sounds excellent
18.02.20 #       <preglow> but now my body desperately needs a shower
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18.02.55 Quit    pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
18.03.15 #       <markun> perl|work: I had to switch encoding to UTF-8 in notepad2 for the pasting to work
18.03.31 Quit    jhMikeS ("Meow!")
18.04.03 #       <perl|work> markun got it
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18.13.57 #       <markun> perl|work: what about something like this? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VKeyboardSamples
18.15.43 #       <markun> amiconn: what do you think?
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18.21.39 #       <perl|work> markun thats nice
18.21.46 #       <perl|work> saves some trouble
18.22.08 #       <markun> yes, just to make it a bit easier
18.22.23 #       <markun> maybe people can attach their own keyboard files
18.23.26 #       <perl|work> yeah would be nice to have some nice 2 languages layouts
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18.28.07 #       <markun> perl|work: oops :) http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LoadableKeyboardLayouts
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18.28.38 #       <markun> perl|work: I will merge them later
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18.42.45 #       <xandl12> Hi! Is mpegplayer currently broken on the sansa? because non of the videos which worked with the build 3days ago are not working anymore.
18.45.26 #       <xandl12> Sometimes I get a "FREEZE" on the bottom on the start of a video..sometimes the screen stays just black ..and no sound
18.47.15 #       <jhMikeS> xand112: shouldn't be for long once I get rockbox installed ... so yeah some new problems were introduced
18.51.00 #       <xandl12> oh ok... good to hear :-) so I switch back to a later build, till it is working again
18.52.24 #       <toffe82> jhMikeS: you find something interesting on the lcd ?
18.53.05 #       <jhMikeS> toffe82: not really...the chip is pretty much glued down face down and I could really see anything but glue
18.54.02 #       <toffe82> jhMikeS: you don't have some chemical to take of the glue ;)
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18.55.24 #       <jhMikeS> the whole thing isn't what I pictured in my mind. it's just the wafer cemented down and I'm not sure what to do to free that atm
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18.56.24 #       <jhMikeS> ummm...how to get sansa out of data abort?
18.56.33 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: Lcd controllers being chip-on-glass is quite common
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18.57.02 #       <amiconn> And I don't think there's a method for non-destructive removal
18.58.08 #       <jhMikeS> ahh...hold the darn power button for really long
18.58.13 #       <jhMikeS> I wonder if some chemical method would work...
18.59.50 #       <jhMikeS> the sansapatcher is the correct install or is that out of date?
19.00.34 #       <barrywardell> that's the correct install
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19.01.55 #       <jhMikeS> hmmmm...data aborts fly at you fast here
19.03.14 Quit    midgey ()
19.03.48 #       <barrywardell> really? i haven't experienced many
19.04.25 #       <jhMikeS> got one trying to just browse a directory
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19.08.53 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19.10.53 #       <jhMikeS> now, to discover whatever stupid thing I managed to do to mpegplayer :p
19.11.19 Quit    TheSphinX^ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
19.11.30 #       <barrywardell> have you seen http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6964 ?
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19.12.11 #       <barrywardell> might not be the cause, but worth checking out
19.12.15 #       <jhMikeS> hmmmm....no but interesting
19.12.26 Quit    atsea-151175 (Remote closed the connection)
19.12.31 #       <jhMikeS> one of my theories for the behavior was just something like that
19.12.53 Quit    atsea-142140217 (Remote closed the connection)
19.12.56 #       <Wexlon> I want to install rockbox and play flac files. I'm curious how I put these flac files on to the ipod since iTunes won't. Anyone that can help?
19.15.11 #       <bluebrother> use disk mode.
19.15.54 #       <barrywardell> jhMikeS: there was talk about it on irc on the 4th of april
19.17.07 #       <Wexlon> ok, thanks I will look at the logs
19.17.15 #       <jhMikeS> barrywardell: My attendance and log checking has been spotty of late
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19.19.44 #       <SliMM> back in business
19.21.52 #       <jhMikeS> suppose I'll try explictly zeroing everything at startup
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19.23.52 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: The problem is that the plugin loader uses an assumption for its bss clearing which no longer holds as soon as the plugin is using iram for code or (constant) initialized data
19.24.42 #       <amiconn> ...because the area in the plugin that holds the iram content is re-used for bss after copying the stuff to iram
19.24.47 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: so what is to be done? can this be fixed quickly?
19.25.21 Quit    linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19.25.22 #       <amiconn> I think the best fix would be to introduce another field in the plugin header that specifies the start of bss
19.25.23 #       <jhMikeS> ok, so why was that left that when the data was recycled for bss?
19.26.35 #       <jhMikeS> so that means a new variable in the linker script?
19.26.35 #       <amiconn> This change could (and imho should) go with another change that I was planning to do for quite a while now: use the 4-letter target id (used in our swcodec bootloaders) instead of the current (arbitrary and unrelated) numeric id
19.26.58 #       <SliMM> why can't be the plugins be compiled separatly?
19.27.39 #       * jhMikeS 's dream is to be able to compile any particular plugin / codec separately and save some waiting
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19.27.58 #       <amiconn> ..and use memcmp() for comparing the loadable type (plugin, codec etc) instead of direct comparison of the magic value (which makes it look weird in a hex editor for little endian targets - it's backwards)
19.28.44 #       <amiconn> 'make' only compiles changed sources anyway. I don't think you'll save much time (says someone who uses slowish cygwin for building rockbox)
19.29.08 #       <SliMM> jhMikeS: that is one of my dreams to
19.29.34 #       <jhMikeS> it would help to have that cause sometimes it gets a lot of turnaround trying to probe for a bug
19.29.58 #       <amiconn> and?
19.30.15 #       <amiconn> Subsequent 'make's will only compile our single plugin anyway....
19.30.45 #       <SliMM> yes, it does, but it is pretty difficult (at least for beginners such as myself) to figure out how to compile the whole OS, apply patches etc.
19.30.46 #       <jhMikeS> and? I wish it wouldn't even check the others...10s down the tubes
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19.33.44 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: so the iram content is just part of the normal bss section now and a start and end can be linked and used to zero it correct?
19.34.06 #       <amiconn> Hmm....
19.34.16 #       <amiconn> In fact an extra field in the plugin header won't help
19.34.40 #       <amiconn> With iram, the loader must not clear bss because that would wipe out the iram content prematurely
19.34.49 #       <amiconn> Seems we need a proper plugin_crt0
19.35.05 #       <jhMikeS> can't do it in the iram init?
19.36.11 #       <jhMikeS> at first I just want to see if clearing that has anything to do with the bug
19.36.26 #       <amiconn> try it, it should probably work
19.36.49 #       <amiconn> It could also be a different problem: something using bss _before_ iram init
19.36.53 #       * jhMikeS enters some new rb aspects now
19.37.50 #       <amiconn> That's why I suggested a proper crt0, which would be asm like the core crt0
19.38.05 #       <jhMikeS> well, right after checking for a parameter, it inits iram
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19.41.08 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: maybe we'll get there soon, but like I remember you saying, a plugin has to be able to offer the option to not stop playback
19.42.04 #       <amiconn> Ah, that thing....
19.42.23 #       <amiconn> pfft. 'make' on an up-to-date build dir takes just 1.5 sec on linux. On cygwin it's longer though, roughly 30 seconds
19.42.33 #       <amiconn> (swcodec target: h120)
19.43.13 #       <jhMikeS> well, that's on linux. I think vmware must not be quite as fast as just running linux straight
19.43.58 #       <SliMM> it isn't
19.44.22 #       * amiconn checks
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19.44.37 #       <jhMikeS> amiconn: this doesn't cover the remainder? ->     memset(iramcopy, 0, iram_size);
19.44.48 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Don't all the IRAM using plugins stop playback no matter what anyway?
19.45.02 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: Hmm, it should, but there's still the problem in the loader
19.45.21 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: they don't have to, they _can_ offer to decline it
19.45.24 #       <amiconn> If the iram section is larger than bss, the plugin loader calls memset() with a negative count
19.45.55 #       <amiconn> ...which makes it go bananas. At least the arm version will still write some bytes somewhere
19.46.35 #       <jhMikeS> the size_t is unsigned so there is no negative ;)
19.46.42 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Ah, so the option is "Stop playback, or don't run the plugin" I thought you meant "don't stop playback while still running the plugin"
19.47.03 #       <amiconn> Tell that to memset ;)
19.47.03 #       <Llorean> My brain's not working in order yet.
19.47.17 #       <amiconn> And if it would be interpreted as unsigned, the effect would be even worse
19.47.59 #       <amiconn> A solution that doesn't require changing headers could consist of 2 parts:
19.48.16 #       <jhMikeS> obvious enough to make it get fixed sooner :)
19.48.18 #       <amiconn> (1) make all plugins using iram overwrite the iramcopy with zeroes after copying
19.48.58 #       <amiconn> (2) let the loader check for count < 0, and not call memset if so
19.49.01 #       <jhMikeS> 1) is normal procedure afaik
19.49.37 #       <jhMikeS> Plugins using IRAM are just suppose to use the two macros and forget about it
19.49.38 #       <amiconn> Afaik it's not
19.50.13 #       <jhMikeS> PLUGIN_IRAM_DECLARE, PLUGIN_IRAM_INIT(api) - that's it and I changed them all when I added it
19.50.35 #       <Llorean> amiconn: 1.658 seconds here for a make with nothing to do.
19.50.40 Quit    juxtap (Success)
19.51.50 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: On a vaguely unrelated note: Did you see the discussion from earlier about how the Sansa seems incredibly unreliable for video right now? (The reporter thinks it plays one video but never again, I suspect it's just a case of being exceptionally unlikely to play video overall).
19.51.53 #       <jhMikeS> plugin_size > readsize should do the trick and it's unsigned safe too
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19.52.18 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: that's what being addressed here and a possible reason for it
19.53.00 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I thought so, but when I skimmed back in the logs I saw mention of a discussion on the 4th. I knew this related to that 32nd sample audio glitch thing, but wasn't sure if this was also the 'it doesn't work at all' thing or if that was your earlier commit.
19.53.02 #       <SliMM> how is jdgordon with the icons?
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19.54.02 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: Umm, you're right. Didn't know the macro does this....
19.54.04 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: I think it was the commit that perhaps made it worse or something but it's not new as far as I could determine...so I suppose it's time to find out why and fix it.
19.54.39 #       <amiconn> Llorean: It's even only ~1.1 sec on my amd64 box. The debian vm on my laptop running on to of winxp needs ~3.2 sec
19.55.08 #       <amiconn> Not too bad considering the difference in cpu and hdd performance...
19.55.46 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Yeah, that 1.7 was on a middling laptop.
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19.56.17 #       * jhMikeS probably needs more ram and less page swapping :D
19.56.27 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I meant the "Hopefully help some problems on dual core." that is very recent. I've little doubt that your commit earlier is what made the Sansas so spiteful, they seem rather touchy. ;)
19.57.27 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: the initial mpegplayer commit made it worse...the second was a hopeful fix that had no effect
19.57.29 #       <amiconn> The vm has just 256MB ram assigned. Host has a total of 1GB, with like 10 apps running in parallel
19.58.07 #       <jhMikeS> I have 512MB here
19.58.18 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Alright, thanks. Just trying to get caught up. :)
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20.00.46 #       <amiconn> Wow, debian etch was released on the 8th. I didn't think that will ever happen...
20.01.30 Quit    barrywardell (Remote closed the connection)
20.01.38 #       <jhMikeS> that's the darndest thing...i'm getting black screen across resets
20.01.39 #       <Lear> amiconn: main reason for slow Cygwin build is now svnversion, so I update docs/VERSION on svn update, thus avoiding that.
20.02.41 #       <amiconn> How often is that called? If it's once per build, I wouldn't care...
20.03.37 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I did too on my Sansa. I managed to get another video to play eventually, though I was trying different things to do it, and never figured out what worked.
20.03.46 #       <Llorean> It may just be that "Mostly, video just won't play and sometimes you get lucky"
20.04.27 Quit    inversions ()
20.04.38 #       <jhMikeS> hehe...well it seems in favor of
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20.05.55 #       <Lear> Twice per build, actually (not quite sure why). With a primed filesystem cache, each call takes ~5 seconds here. First call is ~60 seconds though...
20.06.10 #       <Lear> As usual, much quicker on Linux...
20.07.15 #       <jhMikeS> I went through a USB connect cycle and it seemed to come back...and no funky screen effects at boot
20.08.39 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: A USB connect cycle didn't solve it for me.
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20.09.37 #       <jhMikeS> There's obviously race conditions everywhere...I'll just switch cores and see if that's possible
20.10.16 #       <jhMikeS> I don't get a hand using the stop button though
20.10.18 #       <jhMikeS> hang
20.10.43 #       <amiconn> Lear: Do you have a virus scanner running?
20.11.00 #       <Zeze21> hey guys
20.11.10 #       <Zeze21> i have a problem with rockbox and my ipod video
20.11.20 #       <SliMM> go on
20.11.22 #       <Zeze21> it doesn't boot correctly
20.11.30 #       <Zeze21> it just shows the apple logo
20.11.34 #       <Zeze21> and that's it
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20.11.54 #       <Zeze21> i installed todays build
20.12.04 #       <SliMM> when did you install the bootloader?
20.12.46 #       <Zeze21> hm good question
20.13.03 #       <Zeze21> i don't remeber if i have rockbox on this ipod before or if it was my old one
20.13.04 #       <SliMM> when did you first install rockbox?
20.13.11 #       <Zeze21> but i think today
20.13.33 #       <SliMM> all the ipod patcher stuff?
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20.13.45 #       <Zeze21> i used the following program:
20.13.54 #       <Zeze21> http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipodpatcher/win32/ipodpatcher.exe
20.14.02 #       <SliMM> today?
20.14.06 #       <Zeze21> yes
20.14.16 #       <Zeze21> not even 5 miniutes ago
20.14.22 #       <SliMM> :-? i don't know..
20.14.22 #       <Zeze21> *minutes
20.14.32 #       <Zeze21> is there any way to reset my ipod`
20.14.34 #       <Zeze21> ?
20.14.42 #       <SliMM> don't do that
20.14.49 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: The standard menu+select, then select+Play for disk mode works for getting back to disk mode.
20.14.50 #       <SliMM> just try an older build
20.15.19 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: But the best is to hold Right while trying booting rockbox to see what the error message is.
20.15.20 #       <Zeze21> ok llorean from there i can use it to get another build?
20.15.31 #       <SliMM> llorean: svn update under vmware player for updating sources?
20.15.38 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: If you're using an up to date build, we need to know what the error message is.
20.15.45 #       <Zeze21> how long?
20.15.53 #       <SliMM> there is no error message
20.16.01 #       <SliMM> there is just the apple logo
20.16.05 #       <Llorean> SliMM: No error message displays unless you hold right.
20.16.11 #       <amiconn> huh?
20.16.21 #       <amiconn> Shouldn't errors still display?
20.16.26 #       <SliMM> llorean: good to know
20.16.28 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Doesn't seem to work reliably
20.16.33 #       <Zeze21> i am holding right (skip) right now
20.16.48 #       <Zeze21> and nothin appears but the aplle logo...
20.16.50 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: When did you start holding it during the boot process.
20.17.10 #       <Zeze21> as soon as the apple logo came up
20.17.40 #       <Zeze21> still nothing...
20.17.45 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: As soon as the logo showed on screen, before backlight?
20.17.52 #       <Zeze21> yes
20.17.58 #       <amiconn> Zeze21: What exact ipod video model do you have?
20.18.09 #       <Zeze21> ipod video 5.5
20.18.13 #       <SliMM> anyone? is 'svn update' for updating the rockbox sources?
20.18.15 #       <amiconn> If it's an 80GB it won't work, as stated on the rockbox frontpage
20.18.23 #       <Zeze21> ohoh
20.18.28 #       <Llorean> SliMM: svn update is for updating anything checked out with SVN
20.18.43 #       <Zeze21> it is an 80
20.18.56 #       <SliMM> of course :)
20.19.01 #       <Zeze21> i didn't see that
20.19.09 #       <Zeze21> so how can i undo that?
20.19.50 #       <Zeze21> is there any way?
20.20.04 #       <jhMikeS> odd running audio and video on the CPU seems to make no difference
20.20.12 #       <Llorean> Zeze21: Just tell iPodPatcher to uninstall
20.20.21 #       <jhMikeS> runs like crap but still touchy
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20.21.23 Part    toffe82
20.21.27 #       <Zeze21> ok i have it in disk mode
20.21.50 #       <amiconn> Darn, debian servers are slow today :(
20.21.54 #       <Zeze21> and  uninstalled
20.22.10 #       <Zeze21> vamos saber...
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20.23.00 #       <Zeze21> ahhhh
20.23.00 #       <Zeze21> gracias
20.23.00 #       <jhMikeS> weird....it's got nothing to do with dual core use
20.23.00 Quit    z35 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20.23.03 #       <amiconn> Zeze21: The 80GB/5.5 will be supported one day, we know what's going wrong, just the proper fix is non-trivial
20.25.16 #       <amiconn> jhMikeS: The exact data abort address should tell you something when combined with the .map and a disassembly...
20.25.23 #       <Zeze21> ok cool
20.25.27 #       <Zeze21> thank you
20.26.06 #       <jhMikeS> It was five digits 2Dxxx ... make any sense? I do use the maps for that all the time.
20.26.17 #       <Slasheri> argh, metronome plugin is calling mp3_play_data from an ISR context and crashes obviously. The first time i tried that for real :)
20.26.23 #       <Lear> amiconn: yes, though that one doesn't affect build speed...
20.26.31 #       <Zeze21> i wanna say thank you for your help this is a real support chan which earns the name support chan i have never experienced that nice behavior patience and cleverness in any other irc chan
20.26.34 #       <Zeze21> any thank you
20.26.39 #       <amiconn> Lear: Oh? Interesting...
20.27.09 #       <Zeze21> cu and thank you
20.27.13 #       <amiconn> My virus scanner severely affects build speed, therefore I deactivate it during builds
20.27.27 #       <Lear> At least I'm pretty sure I tested without a scanner during a recent re-install...
20.27.57 #       <Slasheri> on linux you don't need anti-virus..
20.28.18 #       <Lear> An up-to-date make takes about 5 secs for me.
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20.28.41 #       <amiconn> That's.... fast
20.29.25 #       <Lear> That's without svnversion, btw.
20.29.41 #       <petur> aha
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20.32.47 #       <jhMikeS> ok...no core issue...hmmm...hard or soft lock?? grrr
20.33.31 #       <toni1> jhMikeS: Please have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6964. Some mpegplayer issues may be related to this. The clearing of BSS is totally off.
20.34.25 #       <toni1> jhMikeS: Overwriting some audio tables instead.
20.34.40 #       <toni1> (sometimes)
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20.36.10 #       <jhMikeS> toni1: what about the bss clear in plugin_iram_init?
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20.37.03 #       <toni1> jhMikeS: That should be ok. (ibss)
20.37.05 #       <amiconn> toni1: I talked with jhMikeS about this problem earlier today
20.37.30 #       <amiconn> It's enough to check for a negative count in the plugin loader, and not call memset in this case
20.37.41 #       <amiconn> plugin_iram_init will do the rest
20.38.04 #       <toni1> amiconn: Ah ok. I didn't notice that.
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20.39.27 #       <jhMikeS> though the mpegplayer troubles don't seem related to a negative size issue either
20.39.50 #       <toni1> amiconn: I did the negative check here + some clearing of bss data in the plugin. It works fine in front of plugin_iram_init, but not after.
20.40.15 #       <amiconn> You don't need to change anything in the plugin itself
20.41.03 Quit    Jon-Kha (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20.41.17 #       <toni1> What I don't understand, why is the result so different (simply setting some globals before and after plugin_iram_init?
20.41.30 #       <jhMikeS> there are no caching issues regarding the iram for code either?
20.41.44 #       <amiconn> The iram isn't cached
20.41.54 #       <jhMikeS> what about the bss clear?
20.42.40 #       <amiconn> That's not code
20.44.00 #       <jhMikeS> true, not an issue for CF...but what about PP and the data?
20.44.33 #       <amiconn> Well, when the cpu clears bss, it writes to the cache as well, so this is always consistent
20.45.11 #       <jhMikeS> and the second core should have no knowledge yet of the data...but like I said...no core issue here...argh
20.45.41 #       <amiconn> toni1:  if (plugin_size > readsize) memset(pluginbuf + readsize, 0, plugin_size - readsize);
20.46.14 #       <toni1> amiconn: Yeah, that was also my solution.
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20.47.09 #       <amiconn> The rest is overlap with iramcopy, and will be cleared by plugin_iram_init after copying iram code +rodata + data
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20.48.48 #       <toni1> amiconn: Still I don't understand the big difference of setting some globals before or after plugin_iram_init.
20.49.41 #       <jhMikeS> hrm...still have backlight action on the black screen
20.49.43 #       <toni1> before: video runs fine several times but without audio; after: no video/audio at all
20.49.49 #       <amiconn> You must not set (bss) globals before plugin_iram_init
20.50.25 Quit    Ribs ("Ex-Chat")
20.50.39 #       <toni1> That explains it.
20.50.39 #       <jhMikeS> toni1: video with frame sync? without audio, frame sync should hang
20.51.01 #       <amiconn> This will cause 2 bad things, since bss space is shared with iramcopy: (1) The init will overwrite some data/code that's not yet moved to iram. (2) your inited global will be wiped by plugin_iram_init
20.51.16 #       <toni1> jhMikeS: video with some audio glitch at the start, then silence.
20.51.32 #       <jhMikeS> which player?
20.51.35 #       <toni1> sansa
20.51.47 #       <jhMikeS> ?? i haven't gotten that one
20.52.07 #       <jhMikeS> but the frames keep playing?
20.52.18 #       <jhMikeS> with sync on I mean
20.52.19 #       <toni1> yes, exactly.
20.52.42 #       <toni1> if it is the default, then yes.
20.52.58 #       <jhMikeS> well, that means audio stopped decoding for some reason...then pcm just sends silence
20.53.17 #       <jhMikeS> the clock is kept running all the time
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21.00.26 #       <AngeL> Hi people
21.00.50 #       <AngeL> Who speak russian?
21.01.12 #       <AngeL> What,no one?
21.01.41 Join    PaulJam [0] (i=Paul@vpn-3015.gwdg.de)
21.02.02 #       <AngeL> Hey,people!Why you so...
21.02.10 #       <Llorean> AngeL: This is an English language technical channel.
21.02.36 #       <PaulJam> Slasheri, are you here?
21.02.43 #       <AngeL> O,sorry I not good spek  English
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21.08.57 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21.10.35 #       <Forte2> k
21.10.43 #       <Forte2> i formated my ipod video
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21.11.08 #       <Forte2> does it need the normal ipod shit
21.11.09 #       <Forte2> er
21.11.11 #       <Forte2> stuff
21.11.16 #       <Forte2> or can i just put rockbox on
21.11.16 Part    kaaloo
21.12.38 #       <jhMikeS> hrm...one time got an undefined unstruction E7CC2002
21.12.39 Quit    Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
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21.22.35 #       <Slasheri> PaulJam: hi
21.23.06 #       <H10_007quick> How could I tell a script to zip all the files in a dir except the ones that I specify?
21.24.17 #       <jhMikeS> I know what's happening now ... pcm isn't starting reliably
21.25.18 #       <PaulJam> Slasheri, concerning FS#6949: The Patches are mostly copy and paste from the %rr tag so i don't think it is necessary to have my realname in the credits list.
21.27.29 #       <H10_007quick> can someone give me a link to the bootloaders?
21.28.03 #       <Slasheri> PaulJam: if you really think you want to remain uncredited, i think that is then ok. But i have no idea why anyone would ever want that
21.28.48 #       <H10_007quick> nevermind I found it
21.31.21 #       * jhMikeS guesses a race condition with playback
21.31.24 #       <Genre9mp3> wow....iriver japan, offers 4GB ifp7xx players...
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21.32.12 #       * Forte2 is happy
21.32.53 #       <Llorean> Genre9mp3: What?!
21.33.09 #       <Llorean> As far as I'm aware the iFP 7-series went only up to 1gb...
21.33.17 #       <Genre9mp3> http://www.iriver.co.jp/estore/f700?adp_mid=735378&adp_lid=2
21.33.53 #       <Genre9mp3> they call it now as "F700"
21.34.04 #       <Llorean> Wow
21.34.17 #       <H10_007quick> Ok, for compiling bootloaders, how many targets require extra commands other than the standard "make"?
21.34.24 #       <Genre9mp3> quite interesting I would say...
21.34.28 #       <Llorean> Very interesting
21.34.30 #       <perl|work> bunch of crazy devices on that page
21.34.37 #       <Llorean> I wonder if it'll come back in the US shop.
21.34.55 #       <Genre9mp3> pity that we don't have a working port for ifp yet...
21.35.08 #       <Llorean> It's semi-working. It can play some music, I believe
21.35.38 #       <jhMikeS> yep...putting in a sleep improves the situation dramatically
21.36.04 #       <Llorean> Genre9mp3: I'm rather fond of my iFP, actually, and wish I could use it as a Rockbox recorder.
21.36.39 #       <Genre9mp3> Llorean: Noticed the "Recording Edition" on that page?
21.37.13 #       <Llorean> Genre9mp3: I speak no japanese.
21.37.19 #       <Llorean> Oh, nevermind
21.37.23 #       <Llorean> Didn't see the obvious
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21.37.34 #       <Genre9mp3> but I believe that it's nothing more than including that Sony mic in the packet or something like that...
21.38.01 #       <Llorean> It may just be the increased capacity
21.38.06 #       <Llorean> Or an option to record to WAV (or both)
21.38.39 #       <Genre9mp3> I don't know japanese either...
21.40.32 #       <Llorean> I'd pick up a 4GB just for use with the retail firmware honestly, I've found a lot of uses for my iFP
21.42.32 #       <Genre9mp3> a lovely piece of hardware I would say
21.42.36 #       <Forte2> hmm
21.42.46 #       <Forte2> the black glass that i had isnt this one
21.43.12 #       <Llorean> Genre9mp3: has the same sound quality issues as the H100, but still quite fine.
21.43.27 #       <Genre9mp3> the snr you mean?
21.43.36 #       <Llorean> Yeah
21.43.44 #       <Genre9mp3> I know what you mean...
21.43.57 #       <jhMikeS> the colors look a bit purpleish on sansa...what's the deal?
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21.44.54 #       <webguest32> Hi
21.45.24 #       <Genre9mp3> Llorean: It's quite irritating especially when you notice on the specs that it's not UDA1380's fault (according to the specs it has quite high SNR)
21.45.32 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: It may just be an aspect of the screen. It used to do a crash where it would "fade to black" and it faded through purple to eventually reach a dark purple/blackish color.
21.46.22 #       <Llorean> Genre9mp3: Fortunately it only bothers me with one set of headphones, and usually not in the conditions that I need to use them (lots of background noise anyway)
21.47.11 #       <Genre9mp3> I wonder what iriver did wrong on this and if it's possible to correct it
21.48.28 #       <Genre9mp3> and it's the same on both H100 and H300
21.49.12 #       <webguest32> I screwed up really bad. I'm still under warranty, so I'll most likely get a new iPod. The problem is, when I connect my iPod to the computer, my computer doesn't recognize it.
21.49.17 #       <amiconn> Does the iFP also have UDA1380?
21.49.28 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: It's a bit odd that audio would have a call to pcm_stop_playback view Q_AUDIO_STOP pending by the time the audio thread tries to start pcm
21.49.38 #       <Genre9mp3> amiconn: most probably not
21.50.30 #       <Febs> webguest32: put the iPod in disk mode, and then connect it.
21.50.44 #       <SliMM> webguest32: by installing rockbox you void the warranty
21.50.54 #       <spiorf> webguest32, press menu+select for 4/5 seconds until ipod reboots, then press play+select, but you have to be fast
21.50.59 Quit    GodEater (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21.51.08 #       <jhMikeS> the scrollwheel needs a bit of help too...it blocks too many messages
21.51.49 #       <Genre9mp3> amiconn: at least I cannot see it in the pics here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverIfp7XXHardwareComponents
21.51.56 #       <webguest32> Sorry for coming in here and not reading other websites first.
21.52.02 #       <webguest32> I fixed it.
21.52.12 #       <webguest32> Thanks.
21.52.15 #       <Rincewind> can someone tell me what the sound quality of the Sansa compared to the iRiver H1xx is?
21.52.27 #       <webguest32> I just restarted it and then quickly flipped the hold button to on.
21.52.30 Nick    ompaul is now known as spif (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul)
21.52.41 #       <Rincewind> especially the background noise thing
21.52.43 #       <webguest32> Bye.
21.52.46 Part    webguest32
21.52.48 Nick    spif is now known as ompaul (n=ompaul@194.125.58.117)
21.53.00 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Apparently the wiki page for the port is somewhat useless, it points to off-site lists of hardware that don't exist any more. =/
21.53.30 #       <Llorean> Rincewind: Much, much less background noise audible with my CX300s (in the retail firmware, haven't tested with them and Rockbox) just don't move the scrollwheel.
21.53.59 #       <Rincewind> Llorean: what do you think of the overall quality of the sansa?
21.54.20 #       <Llorean> Rincewind: Could you do me a favour? Go to this page, and see if it looks entirely wrong... http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverIfpPort
21.54.38 #       <Rincewind> I just read a review on amazon on the sansa that is really desastrous
21.55.03 #       <Rincewind> Llorean: the page wants a cookie from altavista
21.55.07 #       <Llorean> Weird.
21.55.21 #       <Rincewind> the font is huge
21.55.27 #       <jhMikeS> the color jumps in the dark ranges of red and blue are too big...ok, I'll put a sock in it but I'm at the "pick the port apart" phase ;)
21.55.31 #       <Llorean> The page isn't using the right style, and the links don't work right.
21.56.01 #       <Rincewind> the tables don't fit in my screen horizontally
21.56.38 #       <jhMikeS> oops, just trashed the display scrolling really fast...hehe
21.59.00 #       <Llorean> Rincewind: Page should be fixed, I thin
21.59.01 #       <Llorean> think
21.59.14 #       <Rincewind> much better, yes
21.59.34 Quit    H10_007quick ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030916]")
21.59.42 #       <pixelma> Llorean: maybe that page was from the wiki rescue off of google cache pages? *shrug*
21.59.52 #       <Rincewind> you could use a nice title for the long link for the firmware download
21.59.52 Quit    ndoak ()
22.00.26 #       <Llorean> pixelma: It's entirely possible
22.04.17 #       <Forte2> mini done froze my pc
22.04.19 Join    lutherx [0] (i=47573b48@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a568369ba5eb549a)
22.04.24 #       <Forte2> lol
22.04.56 #       <markun> amiconn: did you make some test plugin while you were working on gamma correction?
22.05.50 #       <lutherx> Hi everyone! I'm considering installing rockbox but would like to know if it supports embedded cue sheet on FLAC
22.06.09 #       <markun> lutherx: I don't think it does
22.08.00 #       <lutherx> markun: ok, thanks. Little bit of a bummer. My files are all in FLAC so I imagine I'll have to put them on the iPod with diskmode. Does anyone know if rockbox databases the files similar to apple's firmware or will I have to browse directories?
22.08.05 #       <Llorean> lutherx: CUE sheets are expected to be separate files, with the same filename but different extension.
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22.08.36 #       <Bagder> lutherx: rockbox supports both database and file browsing
22.08.44 #       <lutherx> Llorean: so if I have the seperate cue sheet file it will work?
22.08.57 #       <markun> lutherx: yes
22.09.11 Quit    Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
22.09.13 #       <H10_007quick> In a shell script how do I say, test for multiple things, like [ $rockbox = 1,3 ] but how do I indicate that it should test for both 1 and 3?
22.09.31 #       <Bagder> H10_007quick: "man bash"
22.09.40 #       <lutherx> Ok well I have all seperate cue sheets as well so I should be in good shape. Thanks for your help guys!!
22.09.41 #       <H10_007quick> ok
22.09.58 #       <lutherx> Bagder: you don't happen to be on SAG forums do you?
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22.10.22 #       <Bagder> I don't know what SAG is so I guess that's a no ;-)
22.10.41 #       <blistov_> has anyone noticed battery life getting significantly worse on the ipods with newer firmware?
22.10.49 #       <lutherx> lol, just checkin know someone there with the same spelling (Bagder)
22.11.18 #       <Bagder> I've used my nick spelled this way for... 20 years
22.11.34 #       <blistov_> i normally run johnbuild, which gives me 7 hours, and i keep having to revert back to it because all the newer firmware gives me less than 2 hours.
22.12.39 #       <markun> blistov_: if people were only getting 2 hours on ipods I think we would have known
22.12.49 #       <Llorean> blistov_: A) Please don't ask about unsupported builds. B) Nobody else has reported this with official builds.
22.13.19 #       <Llorean> Pretty much every time someone's said the battery life is very short compared to before, a bench test has shown that their estimation skills were the problem.
22.13.39 #       <linuxstb__> lutherx: Adding support for embedded cuesheets in Rockbox shouldn't be that hard.  But I'm curious, how do you tag the tracks?  Or don't you?
22.13.40 #       <markun> blistov_: maybe you can try some older official builds to find out when your problem started?
22.13.45 Nick    linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
22.13.49 #       <ender`> can i get edit privileges on the wiki?
22.14.27 #       <linuxstb> ender`: Only if you leave amusing messages every time you leave it...
22.14.39 #       <amiconn> hehe
22.14.41 #       <petur> rofl!
22.14.44 #       <ender`> i could do that :)
22.14.51 #       <linuxstb> OK, then what's your wiki name? :)
22.14.56 #       <ender`> JernejSimoncic
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22.16.12 #       <linuxstb> ender`: OK, you're in.
22.16.15 #       <ender`> thanks
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22.16.45 #       <lutherx> linuxstb_: EAC can add tags in cue sheets
22.16.57 #       <linuxstb> lutherx: How does it do it?
22.17.26 #       <linuxstb> Sorry, I meant with the FLAC-embedded cuesheets?
22.17.53 #       <lutherx> linuxstb:  well that I'm not sure about I guess
22.18.04 #       <linuxstb> AFAIK, FLAC itself only supports storing the track indexes from cuesheets.  So I'm curious to know how the metadata is stored in such a FLAC file.
22.18.51 #       <lutherx> I guess it doesn't do that. I was confused. I get the track info when I load the FLAC into foobar
22.19.09 #       <Febs> Wow.  Gigabeat F40 for $99:  http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=2792353
22.19.37 #       <lutherx> rockbox will read my seperate cue sheet, but that is all just read it. it won't go to tracks etc.
22.19.51 Quit    Forte2 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22.20.04 #       <markun> Febs: very good deal!
22.20.16 #       <linuxstb> You need to enable cue support in one of the settings menus.  Then when you play a file, Rockbox will look for a .cue file with the same name as the audio file.
22.20.22 #       <amiconn> petur: Btw, your latest vawview commit made it almost twice as fast on archos recorder (50 sec -> 28 sec for a 45 sec 44.1/16/stereo WAV file)
22.21.06 #       <petur> amiconn: I'm testing some more tweaks....
22.21.20 #       <lutherx> linuxstb: ok I'll look for that setting. I'll be happy if I can get that working I don't want to have re-rip all my cds to invidual tracks in FLAC
22.21.46 #       <linuxstb> You shouldn't need to re-rip, just split...
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22.21.53 #       <petur> Febs: bah, they don't accept orders outside US :(
22.22.02 #       <linuxstb> Rockbox works better with individual tracks as separate files...
22.22.34 #       <lutherx> still a lot of work either way buy maybe worth it
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22.23.27 #       <petur> anybody in the US planning to come to devcon2007?
22.23.28 #       <linuxstb> If you typically play whole albums from start to end, then you'll be fine with Rockbox's cue support.
22.23.56 #       <ender`> (...now where to leave that message?)
22.24.04 #       <AceNik> i would love to come but got my exams during that time
22.24.40 #       * petur gives ender`'s quitmessage of last night 10 points and puts it in a frame on the wall
22.24.54 #       <preglow> petur: lostlogic expressed interest
22.25.14 #       <blistov_> :) i understand its unsupported.  i'm talking thought about getting better battery life with the old john build than the even the current stable release.
22.25.24 #       <petur> preglow: I'm bringing some fine Belgian beers... you coming too?
22.25.27 #       <markun> lutherx: if you know how to program you could of course try to improve cuesheet support
22.25.47 #       <preglow> petur: i already have plans for that weekend :///
22.25.49 #       <blistov_> johnbuild gives me 7 hours on average of solid playback, all at 128.  the current build gives me less than 4 at the same bitrate
22.25.59 #       <preglow> they need to start asking me before setting a date, heh
22.26.15 #       <blistov_> was just wondering if anyone else is noticing this?
22.26.24 #       <lutherx> linuxstb: do you know an easy way to split the FLAC files?
22.26.56 Quit    Bagder ("Leaving")
22.26.58 #       <AceNik> guys i dont know if there is a feature request for this , but wouldnt it be nice that we could insert tracks int he current playlist or new , from within a playlist made earlier , like if playlist  A is playing, & there & i could insert tracks from playlist B,C,D.... stored ont he hdd, like currently when u view playlist all you can do to the tracks is move, add to new playlist or old, how bout current ?
22.27.27 Quit    Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.27.40 #       <linuxstb> lutherx: Sorry, no.  I use FLAC as my main format, but have never used cuefiles with them.  Can't foobar do it?
22.27.54 #       <lutherx> I'll look into it
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22.29.02 #       <blistov_> is there a way to check if the cop is running?
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22.32.22 #       <lutherx> linuxstb: well I just got it to work with the seperate cue sheet. Do you know if those cue sheets need to be in the same directory or can they be stored in seprerately in their own dir?
22.32.36 #       <Llorean> petur: I intend to be at '08 if there is one.
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22.37.26 #       <webguest16> Im wanting to start further development on fs#6688 (gigabeat screen landscape mode). I'd like to make landscape mode a cfg file option, could someone let me know where to start in makeing a cfg file option?
22.38.10 #       <amiconn> You'll probably have a hard time...
22.38.32 #       <amiconn> Current rockbox code relies on LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT being constant
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22.39.48 #       <amiconn> Making .cfg options in itself is rather simple
22.40.27 #       <webguest16> ok
22.40.29 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: non-MP3 audio seems to be broken in mpegplayer now.
22.40.33 #       <Llorean> As of your most recent commit on it, I think
22.42.02 #       <webguest16> looking at the current patch, am I right in thinking that the DCache have to be cleared everytime the display orientation is changed?
22.42.46 #       <webguest16> would that solve the fact that LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT are constant?
22.44.23 #       <webguest16> Im really new to dev, my main goal right now is to see how to make a new cfg option, any pointer?
22.46.13 Quit    webguest16 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22.46.29 #       <Bagder> we're currently on < 5 mins/build!
22.46.31 #       <blistov_> with identical settings, playing the same song, my cpu usage under the old johnbuild is 30, but under the current stable its jumping between 30 and 75. does anyone know why?
22.47.38 #       <H10_007quick> I still can't figure out how to make a test test for multiple things, such that [ $rockbox = 1,4 ] were the var rockbox could equal 1 or 4
22.48.02 #       <Bagder> H10_007quick: the -a operator, use multiple ifs or use echo and grep
22.48.19 #       <Llorean> blistov_: There is no "stable". And you're comparing to an unofficial build.
22.48.28 #       <H10_007quick> ok
22.48.31 #       <amiconn> Bagder: Speculative parallel builds would bring it down some more....
22.48.32 #       <Llorean> Try to be precise in what you're talking about
22.48.45 #       <Bagder> amiconn: indeed
22.49.45 Quit    Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.50.29 #       <preglow> what's up with all the warnings in the table?
22.50.51 #       <blistov_> Llorean, I understand that.  I'm not saying there's something wrong with the current, or even recent builds.  I'm saying i'm getting significantly better performance out of an unsupported build, several months old.  it doesn't even have COP support, but its infinitely more usable.
22.50.59 #       <Llorean> preglow: Core locking doesn't work yet.
22.51.04 #       <AceNik>  H10_007quick: check pvt
22.51.16 #       <Llorean> blistov_: And my point is "what's your point"?
22.51.21 #       <Llorean> You haven't compared to an official build the same age.
22.51.29 #       <blistov_> Yes I have.
22.51.41 #       <Llorean> Then why are you even talking about an unsupported build at all?
22.51.47 #       <preglow> Llorean: well, then why is it mentioned in the build?
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22.51.53 #       <Llorean> preglow: There's a #warning
22.52.04 #       <Llorean> Basically "don't let Slasheri forget about fixing this"
22.52.19 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: you mean other mpeg layer bitstreams, right?
22.52.24 Quit    ompaul ("later")
22.52.46 #       <blistov_> Llorean, I thought the devs might like to know that there is potentially a significant performance increase to be had, that is assuming i haven't done something horribly wrong.
22.53.07 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I'm not really sure what type of audio it is, I didn't encode it and my stuff here is just telling me "mpeg audio"
22.53.11 #       <preglow> Llorean: well, it seems it's been forgotten about :P
22.53.14 #       <blistov_> I find the current, and recent builds, almost unusable, mainly because the battery life has been cut in half, and the scrolling is painfully chopppy.
22.53.33 #       <blistov_> (compairitively of course, to the older unsupported johnbuild)
22.53.36 #       <Llorean> blistov_: You haven't told us any useful information.
22.53.45 #       <Llorean> How does it compare to the older official build?
22.53.52 #       <Llorean> What *date* is "older"
22.54.02 #       <blistov_> December ish.
22.54.05 #       <Llorean> Ish.
22.54.08 #       <Llorean> Thank you for your precision.
22.54.08 Quit    scottder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22.54.16 #       <blistov_> Man, i'm not trying to be a dick her.
22.54.27 #       <blistov_> I'm pointing out an observation on a performance loss.
22.54.31 #       <Llorean> How does it compare to the older official build?
22.54.44 #       <jhMikeS> possible I goofed the largest frame size calculation and it's not picking up an empty queue
22.54.58 #       <blistov_> The older official build was still slower than johnbuild of the same date.
22.55.06 #       <jhMikeS> all audio there is MPEG audio though
22.55.09 #       <Llorean> blistov_: "slower" where?
22.55.17 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Yeah, but MP3 shows up as MP3 in these programs.
22.55.21 #       <Llorean> So I assume mp2 or mp1
22.55.33 #       <Llorean> Whatever those denote.
22.55.46 #       <blistov_> Llorean, scrolling is choppy, and retarded, playback skips with crossfeed and eq enabled while scrolling.
22.55.48 #       <Llorean> blistov_: The johnbuild used a scrolling acceleration patch, so UI speed isn't indicative of anything.
22.55.49 #       <jhMikeS> prbably frame size...can you check that?
22.56.20 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Any suggestion how to check that?
22.56.34 #       <blistov_> Llorean, can you assume for a minute that i'm not mentally deficient, I'm just not a dev on this project.
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22.56.52 #       <blistov_> Llorean, the scrolling isn't SLOWER, its CHOPPIER
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22.57.37 #       <blistov_> it acts like an interrupt.   every time the cpu swithes frequencies (every 3/4 second) the scrolling locks for about 100ms)
22.58.00 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: I don't know...some program that gives mpeg info I think
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22.58.38 #       <blistov_> my major point here, is that the official build requires 75MHz just for playback, where the old johnbuild rairly ever hit 75.
22.58.40 #       <Llorean> blistov_: "Choppier" is hardly a technical term, so I have to guess what you mean by it.
22.59.17 #       <Llorean> blistov_: And if you think the johnbuild has a patch that actually affects playback speed, feel free to isolate it.
22.59.19 #       <blistov_> Choppier.  Input scrolling stops for between 100 and 200 ms every 750ms
23.00.12 #       <Llorean> Does the johnbuild use the COP patch?
23.00.15 #       <blistov_> i've had this problem with every official build i've used.  I've seen it on other peoples installs as well, they just dont' notice because they're used to it.
23.00.19 #       <blistov_> No.
23.00.29 #       <blistov_> it does (or at least did not) use COP patch
23.00.51 #       <blistov_> and again, my cpu freq is 30mhz solid, during playback, even up to a 196k file
23.00.58 #       <Llorean> I mean, it's very hard for me to know anything since you're arbitrarily referencing an unofficial build I know almost nothing about let alone where to investigate.
23.01.00 #       <blistov_> mp3 rather
23.01.21 #       <Llorean> A build you don't know the build date of, or anything.
23.01.52 #       <Llorean> So it's very hard for me to get more useful information from you, since you seem to like repeating "It works better" and not telling me any more.
23.02.01 #       <Bagder> blistov_: I must agree with Llorean that without more specific details, this is interesting info but very hard to work with
23.02.23 #       <Llorean> Clearly we've established "johnbuild works better than the current build at the time" but since you don't know what the time was, I don't know how you've established this
23.02.23 #       <blistov_> I'm sorry I haven't been more specific yet.
23.02.25 #       <blistov_> I can be.
23.02.25 #       <H10_007quick> AceNik: what do you mean pvt?
23.02.45 #       <blistov_> again, i'm not working on development for rockbox. i have too many other projects on the go.
23.02.46 #       <Llorean> As well, you haven't told us how OUR build at the time compares to our current build.
23.03.00 #       <blistov_> what is YOUR build?
23.03.04 #       <Llorean> The official one.
23.03.11 #       <blistov_> oh. same problem.
23.03.16 Quit    lutherx ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23.03.20 #       <Llorean> So, in other words, Rockbox hasn't gotten worse?
23.03.41 #       <Llorean> Because your official presentation suggested that Rockbox's performance had degraded since the old build, not that the old build had something making it better.
23.03.50 #       <blistov_> I can't say.  I haven't actually benchmarked each release against the previous.
23.04.20 #       <Llorean> Also, again, I repeat my request for knowing where on Earth this "johnbuild" is from, and what patches it contains.
23.04.27 #       <Llorean> As well as having you actually check the build date / version string.
23.04.35 #       <blistov_> What I do know with definity, is that johnbuild 1.2 plays mp3's at the same bitrate as the current build and the official build, but johnbuild does it on 30mhz where the latter require 75
23.04.47 #       <blistov_> i cant check the build date.
23.04.51 #       <Llorean> blistov_: The official build runs at a constant 75mhz for you?
23.04.59 #       <Bagder> blistov_: why not?
23.05.11 #       <Bagder> ah, they hacked it out?
23.05.21 #       <blistov_> sorry, i meant CAN check the build date.
23.05.26 #       <Bagder> ah
23.05.30 #       * petur wonders why default_event_handler() makes the backlight-on lag so much when pressing a key, it's only a switch statement 2 function calls deep
23.05.44 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Well, I found an mpegvalidator and it wasn't helpful. =/
23.05.58 #       <blistov_> The official build stays at 75mhz almost constantly.  it drops down to 30 mhz for about 1/4 second before jumping back up to 75
23.06.15 #       <blistov_> thats playing an mp3 at 128kbps
23.06.33 #       <Llorean> blistov_: Again, what is johnbuild and where can I find out more about it.
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23.06.54 #       <Llorean> blistov_: It's all rather pointless if you have an arbitrary data point that nobody else can examine.
23.06.54 #       <blistov_> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5695.0OM
23.07.00 #       <blistov_> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5695.0
23.07.45 #       <Llorean> blistov_: It does have the scrolling acceleration in the UI which unties scrolling from the CPU speed a lot, so that mostly explains your "choppiness" most likely
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23.10.11 #       <Llorean> blistov_: How does boost ratio (how often the CPU goes from 75 to 30 to 75) compare between the official version from back the, and the johnbuild?
23.10.17 #       <blistov_> Llorean, i've turned off the scroll accelleration.
23.10.30 #       <Llorean> Scrolling in the menu isn't a valid basis of comparison between the two.
23.10.37 #       <blistov_> all it does is scroll multiple lines at a time instead of 1 right?
23.10.45 #       <blistov_> I understand that.
23.10.58 #       <Llorean> No, it changes how scrolling is handled.
23.11.00 #       <blistov_> again, during playback, 30Mhz vs 75MHz
23.11.13 Quit    PaulJam (Nick collision from services.)
23.11.15 #       <blistov_> thats a big difference.
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23.11.29 #       <blistov_> And i majorly affects battery consumption.
23.11.33 #       <Llorean> blistov_: Stop for a second
23.11.35 #       <Llorean> I asked for the boost ratio
23.11.36 #       <blistov_> k
23.11.40 #       <Llorean> The processor only has two speeds, 30 and 75
23.11.43 #       <Llorean> It alternates between them
23.11.55 #       <Llorean> I asked you how the processor speed compares with an official build of the age the johnbuild is.
23.12.02 #       <Llorean> As in, the Boost Ratio
23.12.10 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: well, you could always increase the size threshold and see if that helps
23.12.13 #       <Llorean> Percentage of time spent at each speed, on the same file, during the same period, with the same settings.
23.12.30 #       <blistov_> right.
23.12.34 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Know the variable name I'm looking for?
23.12.37 #       <blistov_> i don't know how to check that.
23.12.44 #       <blistov_> i mean, properly.
23.12.45 #       <Llorean> blistov_: How did you check the CPU speed then?
23.12.51 #       <blistov_> i can SEE it.
23.12.55 #       <Llorean> Where?
23.13.01 #       <blistov_> i can't just watch it and give you an exact ratio.
23.13.14 #       <Llorean> There should be one screen that outputs it.
23.13.19 #       <Llorean> And that screen also tells the boost ratio.
23.13.20 #       <jhMikeS> Just change MPA_MAX_FRAME_SIZE back to 1500
23.13.43 Quit    BigMac ("Leaving")
23.13.57 #       <Llorean> blistov_: Where do you "SEE" it?
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23.14.14 #       <petur> blistov_: system -> debug menu -> view audio thread
23.14.17 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I'll test that
23.14.27 #       <Llorean> petur: If he wasn't already there, how'd he know that it was at 75 vs 30?
23.14.41 #       <petur> I know...
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23.15.22 #       <WolfBlood> Hey.
23.15.25 #       <blistov_> under johnbuild, playing mp3 at 128, darkgeek theme, no eq, 30mhz
23.15.32 #       <blistov_> boost counter says 0
23.15.44 #       <WolfBlood> Could someone give me the link where it tells me how to install Rockbox on me e250 Sansa?
23.16.06 #       <Bagder> I wasn't aware we could play 128kbit mp3 boostless on ipod
23.16.06 #       <Llorean> WolfBlood: The manual
23.16.15 #       <blistov_> boost ratio is about 40%
23.16.27 #       <Llorean> blistov_: That means 40% of the time it's running at 75mhz
23.16.41 #       <blistov_> why isn't it showing that in the frequency?
23.16.58 #       <Llorean> Maybe johnbuild has a bug
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23.17.19 #       <blistov_> i guess. its still running longer, and smoother though.
23.17.28 #       <blistov_> I"m just trying to figure out why.
23.17.39 #       <Llorean> Have you done an actual battery benchmark?
23.17.43 #       <blistov_> i'd LOVE to have that performance on a moore recent build.
23.17.46 #       <blistov_> no.
23.17.49 #       <blistov_> not recently.
23.17.52 #       <Bagder> well, comparing with an official from the same date would be a start, and then checking the patches it has applied
23.18.05 #       <Llorean> Bagder: I'd like to see actual battery benchmarks first.
23.18.18 #       <blistov_> i ran it last night under the newest release, it ran for 3 hours.
23.18.20 #       <Bagder> yes, that's a good idea
23.18.22 #       <Llorean> Compare the voltage drop over time.
23.18.39 #       <blistov_> played the exact same playlist after reverting to johnbuild, and it was still going this moring, 8 hours later
23.18.46 #       <blistov_> hrm...
23.19.48 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Compiling one now.
23.20.05 #       <jhMikeS> ok
23.20.55 #       <Llorean> Um
23.21.07 #       <Llorean> Did someone enable the button LEDs on gigabeat while I wasn't paying attention?
23.21.24 #       <jhMikeS> it has those?
23.21.27 #       <Llorean> Yup
23.21.40 #       <jhMikeS> well, they should be enabled then
23.21.42 #       <Llorean> MIne were just on..
23.21.51 #       <Llorean> Hm
23.22.05 #       <Llorean> And after a reboot, but they went out with the backlight and didn't come back. I'll investigate that later
23.22.55 Join    Rori [0] (n=me@host-87-74-26-143.bulldogdsl.com)
23.23.14 #       <Rori> what's the link to the daily builds again?
23.23.31 #       <Llorean> Rori: Look at the front page of the site.
23.23.42 #       <Llorean> You shouldn't be using Dailies unless the Current build doesn't work for you
23.24.13 #       <Rori> it doesn't
23.24.19 #       <Rori> I get a data error
23.24.39 #       <Llorean> "Data error"?
23.24.42 #       <Llorean> Do you mean Data Abort?
23.25.24 #       <Rori> yes
23.25.56 #       <Rori> hmm overwriting with older build does not cure makes things worse. Knackered my settings now
23.25.57 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: It doesn't fix it. Could it be more general naughtiness related to that improper size  problem you and amiconn were discussing (the one I don't really understand:))
23.26.09 #       <Llorean> Rori: Are you on an iPod?
23.26.33 #       <Rori> nano
23.26.36 #       <Rori> 1g
23.26.47 #       <Llorean> Rori: And when did you install or last update your bootloader?
23.27.56 #       <Rori> ages ago
23.27.59 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: was a false alarm
23.28.20 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: The reporting of the wrong size was?
23.28.44 #       <bluebrother> Rori: you need a recent bootloader. Update it with ipodpatcher
23.28.49 #       <jhMikeS> in the ibss init, yes. he didn't notice the fact it was zeroed in plugin_iram_init
23.29.15 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: But I thought that was confirmed as the cause of one of the audio problems the sansa had in mpegplayer...
23.29.22 #       <Llorean> The one Toni had talked about
23.29.26 #       <Llorean> Or am I combining problems?
23.29.35 #       <jhMikeS> He recanted I believe
23.29.52 #       <Llorean> Ah
23.30.00 #       <Llorean> Well, MP3 audio works fine, "mpeg audio" sounds funny
23.30.07 #       <Rori> where's the updated bootloader and patcher?
23.30.11 #       <Llorean> It has a lot of noise.
23.30.16 #       <jhMikeS> noise like what?
23.30.20 #       <Llorean> Rori: Just follow the instructions in the manual
23.30.28 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Kinda little high pitched pops and buzzes.
23.30.41 #       <Llorean> And squeeks.
23.30.48 #       <Rori> just gimmie a link
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23.31.17 #       <Llorean> Rori: Or you could just do a little bit on your own and see the "Installing the Bootloader" chapter in the manual, because the process has changed.
23.31.19 #       <Rori> the wesbite is still a nightmare to navigate
23.31.29 #       <Rori> can't find jack
23.31.32 #       <Llorean> Rori: If you can't find "Manual" on the front page, and click it, I'm surprised you can't install.
23.31.37 #       <Llorean> Er surprised you can install.
23.31.52 #       <Rori> yer
23.31.56 #       <petur> Rori: how about that manual link on the left menu?
23.32.03 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: if you could test one more thing: MPEG_GUARDBUF_SIZE - just crank up the size on it...I dunno...add a few KB to it if you could...something 4bytes aligned
23.32.11 #       <Llorean> Rori: How can we improve a link labelled "manual" on the front page of the site, to make it less nightmarish, if I may ask?
23.32.28 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Okay, it'll be 3 or 4 minutes, but sure.
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23.32.58 #       <jhMikeS> that's fine. I wanna know what makes the fiq so touchy in that changing anything makes audio choppy
23.33.21 #       <Llorean> The audio isn't choppy, I don't think. It seems to be all there, just with extras.
23.34.19 #       <jhMikeS> well, in general...altering things in any way seems to make the fifos underrun...but there's a problem starting pcm playback that is the reason for the black screen
23.34.27 #       <Llorean> Ah
23.34.40 Quit    SliMM (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23.34.50 #       <jhMikeS> if I put a big long sleep just before starting it...the mpegplayer plays over and over
23.34.53 #       <Llorean> MPEG_GUARDBUF_SIZE is 64*1024+16
23.35.07 #       <jhMikeS> yes...just crank it up
23.35.12 #       <Rori> Maybe there should be a little place where noobs can just go for frequently screwed up installs ;)
23.35.20 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Any idea how much?
23.35.38 #       <jhMikeS> I dunno--ludicrous, + 4096?
23.35.55 #       <Llorean> I was just gonna make the 64 a 72
23.35.58 #       <Rori> btw this webpages links do not work in Mozilla Seamonkey http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxExtras#Fonts
23.35.59 #       <Llorean> But I'll do that instead. :-P
23.36.05 #       <toffe82>  Bagder : can we upload on the wiki some firmware we are not suppose to have, as it come the player itself ?
23.36.08 #       <Rori> I click on fonts and it does nothing
23.36.31 #       <Llorean> Rori: It's a zip, your computer may be configured to automatically open zips
23.36.39 #       <Rori> yep but it does not open anything
23.36.45 #       <Rori> no link opening or anything
23.36.53 #       <Llorean> The file is large, it may take a while
23.36.55 #       <Rori> the voices link worked but not from the extras page
23.36.58 #       <Rori> nope
23.37.06 #       <Rori> none of the links on the extras page works for me
23.37.07 #       <Llorean> It downloads fine in Firefox
23.37.16 #       <Rori> works from the other voices link
23.37.23 #       <Rori> but no alternate fonts link so
23.37.31 #       <Bagder> toffe82: if we're not allowed to redistribute it, we shouldn't
23.37.31 #       <Rori> gonna have to fire up IE :P
23.38.05 #       <Rori> some pages I have trouble with when they use that linking method
23.38.08 #       <Rori> must be a bug
23.38.11 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Something is definitely wrong with mpegplayer on gigabeat, though, it's making my button lights light up.
23.38.31 #       <jhMikeS> only when you use it?
23.38.36 #       <Rori> nope link does not work in IE either
23.38.41 #       <Rori> can't download the fonts pack
23.38.49 #       <jhMikeS> and only with the other audio format? I haven't had that
23.38.50 #       <Rori> I click and nada happens
23.38.57 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: No, with MP3
23.39.10 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Let me check something in a minute
23.39.18 #       <amiconn> Some nice green archos deltas... :)
23.39.22 #       <Rori> OIC user error ignore me
23.39.23 #       <Rori> lols
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23.39.43 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Guardbuff doesn't fix the audio problem
23.39.56 #       <Rori> it's supposed to 'link' to the relevant section. Because I have a big LCD monitor and see the entire page it does NOTHING! lol
23.40.05 #       <DarkRedFlame> Can anybody help me? I cant find the Rockboy plugin for the Sansa e200
23.40.16 #       <Llorean> DarkRedFlame: Please read the manual section about it.
23.40.17 #       <Rori> I was clicking on 'Fonts' expecting it to downloading something heh
23.40.21 #       <bluebrother> Rori: the links are standard html anchors. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't work
23.40.29 #       <Rori> yes they do
23.40.40 #       <Rori> but I can see the entire page so those links are irrelevant
23.40.41 #       <DarkRedFlame> Thanks Llorean
23.40.51 #       <Rori> just confused the hell out of me
23.41.01 #       <Rori> who looks at pages on small res these days? ;)
23.41.02 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: this is all too funky
23.41.05 #       <petur> Rori was clicking the *top* links
23.41.22 #       <WolfBlood> Can someone help me?
23.41.23 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: I can't get my button lights to disable.
23.41.33 #       <Rori> bloody PDA users
23.41.41 #       <jhMikeS> then something is goofy and corrupting something :\
23.41.44 #       <Llorean> I start up, after a battery disconnect, and the button lights are on.
23.41.46 Join    hiho [0] (n=beachrec@198.23.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)
23.41.47 #       <WolfBlood> Does anyone know anything about the Sansa e250?
23.41.55 #       <Llorean> Until the first backlight fade, apparently
23.41.58 #       <Rori> and you can shove your smartphones....err...well heh
23.42.05 #       <jhMikeS> Llorean: right at boot time?
23.42.07 #       <Bagder> WolfBlood: ask your question and you'll find out
23.42.10 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Yes
23.42.12 #       <jhMikeS> ??
23.42.18 #       <jhMikeS> how could that be mpegplayer?
23.42.33 #       <Llorean> I'm not saying it is any more
23.42.35 #       <WolfBlood> Okay, well I just installed it, while I was trying to play music I just got Data Abort...  and now it won't shut off.
23.42.44 #       <WolfBlood> When I plug it into my PC nothing happens.
23.42.48 #       <WolfBlood> What's wrong with it?
23.42.51 #       <Bagder> WolfBlood: then hold the button for 15 seconds
23.42.52 #       <DarkRedFlame> This Manual? If so I dont see anything that can help me. http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansae200/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1690008.3.3
23.42.52 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: But the guardbuffer doesn't fix the audio glitches.
23.42.56 Join    kubiix [0] (n=Miranda@mos-81-27-201-28.karneval.cz)
23.43.12 Part    scottder
23.43.16 #       <WolfBlood> Please someone.
23.43.32 #       <Bagder> WolfBlood: please what?
23.43.35 #       <jhMikeS> ok...well if you can gimme a copy of the video that would help out...'less it's too naughty :P
23.43.44 #       <Bagder> WolfBlood: we can't hold the button for you
23.43.48 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Just a second I'll find the link. Someone else provided it.
23.44.13 Quit    midkay ("Leaving")
23.44.23 #       <WolfBlood> What button?
23.44.31 #       <WolfBlood> I hold down power, it won't shut off!
23.44.31 #       <Bagder> the menu button
23.45.11 #       <WolfBlood> I just got it turned off.
23.45.12 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=117766 wait for the page to load fully first
23.45.29 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: On your gigabeat, with a new build, turn on the gigabeat and before the backlight fades, move in a list, and see if your button lights come on
23.46.38 Join    Forte [0] (n=j@cpe-76-181-193-175.columbus.res.rr.com)
23.47.25 #       <Rori> OK the bootloader fixed the current build. Thx.
23.47.32 #       <DarkRedFlame> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginRockboy - Still cant find any info for it on the Sansa
23.47.47 Quit    Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23.47.52 #       <Bagder> DarkRedFlame: the info is about the same for all targets
23.47.53 #       <Llorean> DarkRedFlame: I said the manual, but that tells you how to use it as well
23.48.08 Quit    lee-qid (Connection timed out)
23.48.27 #       <Rori> hey where do I plonk the voices files?
23.48.30 #       <DarkRedFlame> You mean the full manual for the Sansa? If so, I didnt find anything there ethier
23.48.33 #       <Rori> I want to try that function out
23.48.44 #       <DarkRedFlame> I went to Plugins > Rockboy, just told me the controls
23.48.52 #       <Llorean> DarkRedFlame: Both that wiki page and the manual and they both tell you how to use it.
23.48.57 #       <Llorean> Rockboy isn't a plugin, it's a viewer.
23.49.10 #       <petur> Rori: .rockbox/langs directory
23.49.16 #       <jhMikeS> can't connect to the server :\
23.49.20 #       <Rori> ta
23.49.28 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Works for me.
23.49.33 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Try waiting for the page to load wholly
23.49.35 #       <DarkRedFlame> Where the Viewer located on the Sansa?
23.49.42 #       <Llorean> DarkRedFlame: You don't need to locate viewers.
23.49.48 #       <Llorean> DarkRedFlame: Please, try reading the page you linked.
23.49.57 #       <Rori> I just put one of those BestSkinsEver skins on my Nano 1G
23.50.02 #       <DarkRedFlame> I'll read it again..
23.50.25 #       <Llorean> It's the second line that's not a title or header.
23.50.26 #       <jhMikeS> how long should that take? it seems to be done
23.50.33 #       <Rori> a few little bubbles I couldn't iron out but nothing too much to worry about. I just wanted something thin to protect it from scraches
23.50.39 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: Dunno. It worked for me when I just tried again
23.50.42 #       * WolfBlood slaps Bagder around a bit with a large trout
23.50.53 #       <jhMikeS> firewall?
23.50.56 #       <Rori> prior to that I used an Agent18 skin
23.51.03 #       <Llorean> WolfBlood: Nobody can help you if you don't ask specific questions.
23.51.07 #       <Llorean> jhMikeS: No clue.
23.51.08 #       * petur takes large trout away from WolfBlood
23.51.22 #       <WolfBlood> How do I put Doom on my Sansa e250?
23.51.46 #       <Llorean> WolfBlood: See the manual.
23.51.52 #       <WolfBlood> What manual?
23.51.58 Quit    secleinteer (Connection timed out)
23.52.00 #       <Bagder> the rockbox manual
23.52.01 #       <Llorean> The one linked to from the front page of the site.
23.52.09 Join    secleinteer [0] (n=secleint@70.230.179.166)
23.52.22 #       <WolfBlood> ...
23.52.36 #       * Bagder runs to bed
23.52.43 #       <markun> Bagder: night
23.52.47 #       <WolfBlood> Doesn't tell me.
23.53.17 #       <markun> WolfBlood: does it say anything about Doom?
23.53.20 #       <Llorean> WolfBlood: It does, actually
23.53.40 #       * Llorean is looking at it right now.
23.53.46 #       <petur> http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansae200/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1240008.1.5
23.53.51 #       <Rori> hey guys the voices don't work correctly
23.54.00 #       <WolfBlood> Thanks!
23.54.05 #       <Rori> it reads off the incorrect menu's
23.54.17 #       <bluebrother> hey Rori, do you have a recent voice file?
23.54.20 #       <Llorean> Rori: Odds are you got an outdated one.
23.54.22 #       <Rori> 'Loudness set' when it's on System etc
23.54.27 #       <petur> 23:52 <WolfBlood>Doesn't tell me.
23.54.32 #       <Rori> yeah where is the updated?
23.54.44 #       <bluebrother> the voice file needs to match the build, but voice files aren't updated regularly
23.54.59 #       <Rori> ic
23.55.00 #       <bluebrother> btw, what happened to that auto-generated voice files? Still in the works?
23.55.03 #       <Rori> lets try a new build
23.55.49 #       <Rori> ooh viavoice
23.55.52 #       <Rori> gotta try that
23.56.07 #       <jhMikeS> DMZ'ed my computer and still no good :\
23.56.07 #       <bluebrother> look at the date of that voice file
23.56.22 #       <Rori> it's new
23.57.20 #       <Rori> hey is rockbox.opid needed in the root anymore?
23.57.26 #       <Rori> I see there is one in the .rockbox folder
23.57.30 #       <bluebrother> I don't know it, just wanted to mention that the file date should help picking a "good" one
23.57.38 #       <Rori> rockbox.ipod
23.57.46 #       <bluebrother> no, that file got moved recently. You can safely delete the one in the root
23.57.52 #       <Rori> cool
23.58.13 #       <bluebrother> (unless your bootloader is quite old, but in that case you would experience data aborts)
23.58.22 #       * bluebrother preferred that file to be in the root
23.58.36 #       * petur doesn't
23.58.43 #       <Rori> still get a battery on disconnection of the USB and have to force a reboot
23.58.44 #       <petur> it should never have been in the root
23.58.44 #       <Rori> sad