--- Log for 17.04.107  Server: kornbluth.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot-  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 5 days and 22 hours ago

00.01.47 Quit    Xerion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00.05.16 Quit    midkay ("Leaving")
00.05.39 Quit    jgarvey ("Leaving")
00.12.56 #       <Nico_P> are there objections about http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7033 (custom line height in the WPS) ?
00.13.35 #       <bluebrother> I'm really wondering if that is necessary
00.14.11 #       <bluebrother> it will mostly only solve a user problem (and I doubt it will get used much)
00.14.26 #       <pixelma> I bet this will become superfluent once there are viewports
00.14.43 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: I don't think so
00.14.49 Quit    Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
00.15.06 #       <bluebrother> with viewports you could put every line in a separate viewport
00.15.09 #       <pixelma> what would you use it for then?
00.15.18 #       <bluebrother> which would have the desired effect
00.15.28 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: I see it as a good way to avoid things like http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9946.msg76230#new
00.15.32 #       <pixelma> exactly
00.15.49 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: IMHO one viewport per line is overkill
00.15.56 #       <bluebrother> IMO we should rather thing about a packaged themes format so the needed fonts come bundled
00.15.58 #       <amiconn> Hmm, petur is gone :\
00.16.21 #       <bluebrother> instead of fixing a symptom
00.16.28 #       <pixelma> what? but that tag would have to do the same (define a height for each line)
00.16.42 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: and it would also fix dancepuffduo
00.16.51 #       <amiconn> Anyone wants to test the win32 sim unicode patch?
00.16.52 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: it's one tag in the WPS
00.16.53 #       <bluebrother> Nico_P, it might be overkill, but people will do it ;-)
00.17.08 #       <bluebrother> dancepuffduo should get fixed properly
00.17.19 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: it defines the height no just for one line, but for the entire WPS
00.17.24 #       <pixelma> Nico_P: the correct fix for DancePuffDuo is a nimbus-13
00.17.32 #       <bluebrother> i.e. by adjusting a font to it or adjusting dancepuffduo to a different font
00.17.56 #       <bluebrother> that task seems like fixing a symptom instead of a problem to me
00.18.09 #       <pixelma> I started that - but it's only nimbus-12 with an extra blank line
00.18.29 #       <pixelma> (I'm not sure if it's worth committing)
00.20.03 Join    Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
00.20.08 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother, pixelma: it shouldn't add a lot to the binsize... it's quite a trivial patch
00.20.36 #       <Nico_P> and I remember ot being requested at least once in the forums
00.20.37 #       <bluebrother> yes, but it adds complexity one way or another
00.20.42 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: not much
00.20.51 #       <Nico_P> it's just one optional tag
00.20.52 #       <bluebrother> scrolling margins has been requested much more often ...
00.21.16 #       <Llorean> %lh helps with viewports too.
00.21.26 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: agreed but that's a much more complex patch, that is perfectly adressed by viewports
00.21.28 #       <bluebrother> and adding to the bin size still adds to the bin size ...
00.21.28 #       <Llorean> It makes the vertical alignment no longer dependent on font size.
00.21.52 #       <bluebrother> you can do vertical alignment completely with viewports
00.22.00 #       <Llorean> With viewports to accomplish the same thing you'd need a viewport for every line in the WPS
00.22.01 #       <bluebrother> and I bet most theme designers will use that
00.22.16 #       <pixelma> I'm not sure what amiconn has in mind how to handle this...
00.22.48 #       <bluebrother> most of these fancy themes don't have much text lines either.
00.22.54 #       <Llorean> I think a single wps tag, especially one that is a very minimal modification to the code, is preferable to 30 viewports just to accomplish the same effect.
00.22.55 #       <bluebrother> Much more conditional images
00.23.10 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: if they have a simpler way of doing it, they won't use one viewport per line
00.23.26 #       <bluebrother> I don't think so.
00.23.54 #       <bluebrother> if you have a tag that creates a viewport and positions absolutely, they will use it because they need to use it anyway
00.24.05 #       <bluebrother> instead of looking up another tag.
00.24.25 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: But what if I want my WPS to have a viewport for "Artist: Album: Track" (3 lines), spaced a certain way, but don't want to care what font they use?
00.24.43 #       <Llorean> I could do 3 viewports, or I could do one since the %lh tag exists.
00.24.50 #       <amiconn> Anyway, here's the patch: http://amiconn.dyndns.org/win32unicode.diff
00.25.05 #       <bluebrother> you will still get problems with the font size
00.25.17 #       <pixelma> Nico_P: also a minor thing %lh is already used...
00.25.18 #       <bluebrother> if the font is too big it will crop at the bottom
00.25.26 #       <bluebrother> regardless of any height tag.
00.25.26 #       <pixelma> it's the virtual led tag
00.25.42 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Yes, but it'll be clearer the font is too big to the user, rather than looking like an alignment/rendering problem
00.25.51 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: oops... then I might need to change that
00.26.04 #       <bluebrother> I don't think that would make anything clearer
00.26.20 #       <amiconn> I didn't try to build on linux with that patch applied, but I don't expect problems
00.26.20 #       <elinenbe> Nico_P: You should aim for pixel placement -- sort of like viewports... for all text, etc in the WPS
00.26.20 #       <bluebrother> especially if you set a font bigger than the selected height. Then the lines will overlap
00.26.32 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: How many times do people think that bad WPS rendering is a bug because the fields don't align with the boxes used in the backdrop?
00.26.47 #       <Nico_P> elinenbe: that's too complex and not wanted currently
00.26.52 #       <elinenbe> the whole "lines" thing is getting a little bit out of control.
00.27.06 #       <bluebrother> yes, but the proper fix to this user problem is to create a theme format that contains everything needed
00.27.11 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Assuming use of the %al/r/c tag, a too large font would cause them to overlap the background fields but clearly be too long, and cropped at the bottom, I think that's a less subtle hint than them being in a completely different screen position as they are now.
00.27.17 #       <bluebrother> instead of the multiple-files approach
00.27.39 #       <Llorean> What does the multiple-files approach have to do with line-based text positioning?
00.27.39 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: I agree on the contained themes, but that's really unrelated
00.27.42 #       <bluebrother> you really think the average user will understand that?
00.28.00 Quit    joa ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00.28.05 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I think *more* users will, since most users don't think of "Font size" as the same thing as "Text positioning"
00.28.14 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother, pixelma: the patch currently adds ~200 bytes to the gigabeat binsize
00.28.16 #       <bluebrother> I think contained themes are pretty much related: once we have contained theme files the "wrong font" issue won't appear anymore
00.28.17 #       <Llorean> So if the text is positioned in the same place, but too big, that's clearer than if it's in the wrong place.
00.28.31 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: You suggest including a copy of the font for every theme that uses it then?
00.28.36 #       <bluebrother> yes.
00.28.48 #       <Llorean> I don't see that as a very positive solution
00.29.03 #       <bluebrother> that's much easier to the average user, and there is one thing we have plenty of on the player: disk space
00.29.16 #       <elinenbe> bluebrother: agreed... fonts are so small anyway
00.29.24 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: with the tag, WPS creators will stop designing themes around a font, but only around a max line height... that'll give much more flexibility to users in their font choice
00.29.27 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Some of our players are 2gb, or 1gb
00.29.35 #       <Llorean> On those, a 500k-1mb font is not insignificant.
00.29.38 #       <elinenbe> a theme should be entirely contained
00.29.42 #       <bluebrother> you could also create a theme file excluding fonts and use the default fonts folder as fallback
00.29.51 #       <pixelma> that also has its problems - if a few wps use the same font you'll end up with unneeded copies
00.29.54 #       <amiconn> elinenbe: Fonts are small?? Check the size of e.g. unifont.fnt ...
00.30.03 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: And then the same thing happens, a theme that doesn't have a font present in the default, and the author didn't want to duplicate it.
00.30.25 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: As soon as you allow the user to opt-out of including the font, you reintroduce the possibility of the problem, meaning it's not "solved". Users can already include the font in their theme zip, and don't.
00.30.28 #       <bluebrother> the themes could also be distributed in a format that gets installed by a plugin
00.30.44 #       <bluebrother> I already created a plugin to do so, but it doesn't seem there was much interest.
00.30.50 #       <Nico_P> amiconn: what do you think about line height in relation to viewports ? would viewports make it unnecessary ?
00.30.52 #       <amiconn> Llorean: The Ondio has just 128MB of built-in storage, and that's where /.rockbox and hence themes reside
00.31.19 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, a theme file can always be broken by some missing files
00.31.24 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Ah, yes, I *knew* there was something smaller, but my brain isn't quite moving yet (if it ever is, I seem to overlook the Ondio often, but I intend to try to get one)
00.31.43 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Yes, but the line height patch means it can't be broken as easily.
00.31.54 #       <bluebrother> I tend to disagree :)
00.32.03 #       <amiconn> I would still say that disk space is a rather large resource on our targets, but wasting it isn't good
00.32.05 #       <elinenbe> unifont is the largest at 1.4MB but for the most part they are much, much smaller.
00.32.05 #       <bluebrother> there are enough other places to break a theme
00.32.10 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: But you're wrong, the evidence is there.
00.32.25 #       <elinenbe> you can fit every font into the space of less than one song.
00.32.27 #       <bluebrother> evidence for what exactly?
00.32.39 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: If even one less theme is broken by missing fonts, then my statement is true: They can still be broken, but not as easily, because leaving off fonts is the most common install mistake that still allows rockbox to run.
00.32.46 #       <elinenbe> themes are always broken by missing fonts.
00.32.58 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Not with the line-height patch.
00.32.58 #       <bluebrother> then create a format that installs itself on the player
00.32.59 #       <elinenbe> and on the WPS page, it requires you to upload the font with the WPS.
00.33.02 #       <elinenbe> Why is that?
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00.33.11 #       <bluebrother> and include the font in that theme package.
00.33.18 #       <elinenbe> Make sure to give the font you use (or include a theme file) to view your WPS with. Otherwise it won't look right to anyone else.
00.33.21 #       <amiconn> Btw, collecting the ton of small files (read: wps bitmaps) belonging to a theme nowadays into one file will save significant amounts of disk space
00.33.30 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Because any theme that uses %al/c/r for positioning (not spaces) will work with any font smaller or equal than its current one with the line height. Currently it has to be equal only
00.33.48 #       <amiconn> Even a 1-byte file occupies a whole cluster on a fat(32) volume, and a cluster can be as large as 32KB
00.33.48 #       <elinenbe> yes... if a centered font is what you are looking for?
00.33.52 #       <bluebrother> the installation problem caused of fonts is more related because we ship themes with the builds but fonts separately
00.33.55 #       <elinenbe> let's say you want something bottom justified?
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00.34.10 #       <amiconn> But fonts are definitely not suitable to be put into a theme file
00.34.12 #       <bluebrother> there shouldn't be themes in the builds but a separate extras package that includes fonts and themes IMO
00.34.32 #       <elinenbe> amiconn: fonts are part of the theme though?  Themes on Windows include fonts... same with kde if you want.
00.34.42 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: I didn't say it would necessarily look the same, just that it won't be "broken", as in, it can still functionally be used.
00.35.03 #       <bluebrother> still, if you have some format that installs itself duplicates won't be a prlblem
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00.35.23 #       <elinenbe> eh... I think a theme/wps should be designed for a certain font.  Who is really using different fonts then what is supposed to be used/what comes with it?
00.35.24 #       <bluebrother> as replacing a font by the same font unsurprisingly doesn't make a difference.
00.35.44 #       <amiconn> Yes, but having several themes which use the same font would mean the font is stored multiple times on disk - and fonts can be rather large files
00.35.56 #       <elinenbe> amiconn: only in a couple cases.
00.35.58 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, users will still consider it broken (because it's different than the screenshots) and whine about it.
00.36.00 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: I have several themes I'd like to use with different fonts (smaller) so that I get more in the menus, and the line height patch keeps the WPS from breaking (specifically progress bar position, etc)
00.36.07 #       <amiconn> Besides, the font file is accessed dynamically, so not easy to stuff into another file
00.36.25 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I still think "The font looks different" is a much more intuitive problem than "the words are under the album art"
00.36.34 #       <bluebrother> amiconn, then what's the problem with creating theme installation packages?
00.37.00 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, the current situation at least shows clearly there's something wrong
00.37.03 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: I also have several themes that I *do* use with other fonts, because they're text-only (no images)
00.37.16 #       <elinenbe> look at the WPSs on the WPS page... most (all?) come with fonts -- we are looking at 50k... 150k for the most part.  That's not a big deal.
00.37.21 #       <bluebrother> we had a bug report in the tracker once from a user with zezayer and rockbox_default.fnt
00.37.30 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I think if the user can make the connection to "fonts" they're more likely to investigate the right area without filing a bug report first, though
00.37.59 #       <bluebrother> he claimed the Rockbox logo in the lower right edge to be too big
00.37.59 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Most come with fonts? On which WPS page?
00.37.59 #       <bluebrother> the theme itself works fine with the default font ...
00.38.19 #       <bluebrother> I don't believe an average user will make the connection to the font
00.38.27 #       <elinenbe> the mistic river forums and our forums are also filled with "why doesn't my WPS look like that?" type questions.
00.38.37 #       <bluebrother> rather display a splash when the required font isn't found while loading a theme
00.38.41 #       <elinenbe> I agree with bluebrother.
00.39.12 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: That still doesn't cover the *added* functionality of the line-height patch.
00.39.13 #       <elinenbe> I don't think anyone minds the extra hard drive space... if it ends up "just working"
00.39.15 #       <bluebrother> but adding some strange workaround will only create new side effects, and users will be somewhat "surprised" by them and not understand.
00.39.20 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Yes, we do.
00.39.26 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Or at least I do, and I'm someone.
00.39.29 #       <bluebrother> do we need that functionality? Do we even want it?
00.39.32 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I do.
00.39.55 #       <bluebrother> ok, but how about the others? I don't consider this functionality useful
00.39.55 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I have several themes (one per player) all of which would benefit from allowing me to choose a smaller font, and would not break positioning because of it.
00.40.15 #       <amiconn> Something is wrong with the icons stuff
00.40.25 #       <amiconn> Viewer icons don't work right on H1x0
00.40.26 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: I don't consider this a workaround... actually I wonder why it wasn't there frome the start
00.40.40 #       <bluebrother> there are no viewer icons for greyscale yet
00.40.46 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: If you have line-based positioning, you should absolutely be able to define line-height instead of leaving it dependent.
00.40.55 #       <bluebrother> and I don't think JdGordon made it fall back to the mono bitmaps
00.41.08 #       <amiconn> midi files should have a single note icon, but on the main lcd they have no icon at all and on the remote they have a question mark ??!!
00.41.40 #       <bluebrother> I still disagree.
00.41.41 #       <elinenbe> Llorean: I am talking about the "average" user, and you can seriously say you care about 50kb?  100kb?
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00.42.04 #       <bluebrother> with like a line based curses interface you can't set the spacing as well
00.42.28 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: No, the caring starts at 500kb wasted or more.
00.42.45 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: But fonts do pass that mark, especially the useful ones (more unicode)
00.42.58 #       <amiconn> elinenbe: I do, at least for the installation packages, on Ondio
00.43.01 #       <bluebrother> then consider on-device theme installation packages ;-)
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00.43.39 #       <bluebrother> amiconn, caring for theme size too? Or only binary size?
00.43.49 #       <amiconn> And that's not because of the file size of, say, 500KB, but due to the slow writing. It takes quite some time to unzip a build to the Ondio (note: I'm not talking about fullzips!)
00.44.27 #       <bluebrother> I proposed removing the themes from current build zips on the ml recently ...
00.44.32 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: How much more would it add to make the line-height tag also allow specification of centered, top, or bottom?
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00.45.05 #       <bluebrother> the disk in my h120 is kinda slow too, so not overwriting the themes on every update would be nice for me too (though I guess the ondio is slower ;-)
00.45.21 #       <Nico_P> Llorean: you do mean for all the lines ? not much
00.45.22 #       <amiconn> h120 is blazingly fast compared to the Ondio
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00.45.30 #       <amiconn> Even when you use an USB1.1 port
00.45.37 #       <bluebrother> hehe. I knew that :)
00.45.49 Quit    jhulst_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00.45.51 #       <alienbiker99> hey does anybody have an extra working H120 motherboard that they would be willing to seel
00.45.59 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: Yeah, for all lines.
00.46.15 #       <bluebrother> anyway, I'm planning to make a patch to do that change when I find time. Still waiting for comments on that mail
00.46.25 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: That solves elinenbe's "what if you want bottom justified" question, and I think does make it a little nicer possibly.
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00.46.41 #       <Nico_P> Llorean: pretty easy... just one char more and in the code it would be quite trivial
00.46.49 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: I haven't seen your email. Is it in the mailing list archive?
00.46.58 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: I thought so.
00.47.17 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, yes: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2007-04/0031.shtml
00.47.32 #       <elinenbe> I think instead of adding all the kludges, focus should be on viewports, or x,y positioning for anything on the WPS...
00.47.47 #       <Llorean> Nico_P: Well, I'm strongly in favour of it, because I at least think it would be useful as a themeing tool (even ignoring whether or not it reduces confusion from missing fonts)
00.48.03 #       <Nico_P> elinenbe: I'm not working on viewports... time I spend on this won't be lost for them
00.48.13 #       <bluebrother> it would help for theming if it would only affect the current line imo.
00.48.27 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: As well, the line height thing is still useful with viewports, as it reduces the number of viewports that will need to be defined.
00.48.34 #       <Llorean> And I can almost guarantee more viewports == worse performance.
00.48.45 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: it could quite easily
00.48.48 #       <Llorean> I can't imagine it not being the case.
00.49.07 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Are you saying it's absolutely useless as is now?
00.49.36 #       <Llorean> Or did you mean "it would help more for theming"?
00.49.54 #       <bluebrother> as far as I understood amiconn viewports shouldn't be slower than the current wps
00.50.06 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, I don't think it would help more for theming
00.50.33 #       <Llorean> Llorean: No, I mean, do you think current-line only is the only way it could help
00.50.45 #       <Llorean> I can see many uses, just in my own themes, for line height, so I can't imagine it not helping.
00.50.59 #       <elinenbe> I have a question... we already have x,y positioning for bmps -- how much effort is necessary for x,y positioning of text and fonts?
00.51.09 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Much more
00.51.17 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: Also, you can't position a font. :-P
00.51.24 #       <bluebrother> I can imagine it helping more if it does affect only the current line instead of all lines
00.51.25 #       <amiconn> Llorean: The number of viewports should have no influence on performance as long as the calling code doesn't redefine them continuously (which would drain power in the caller, btw. The lcd code still wouldn't care)
00.51.25 #       <Llorean> elinenbe: The problem with absolute positioning is line scrolling.
00.51.48 #       <bluebrother> if it affects only one line it only cures a symptom, but not the issue itself
00.52.10 #       <Nico_P> bluebrother: it affects all lines ATM
00.52.16 #       <Llorean> amiconn: I would expect the constant extra bounds checking to at least be an issue?
00.52.29 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Stop calling it a "cure"
00.52.34 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: It offers new functionality as well.
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00.52.45 #       <bluebrother> I still consider it a such.
00.52.46 #       <amiconn> Llorean: Why? It checks bounds against the current viewport.
00.53.16 #       <amiconn> I think the line height tag is unnecessary, as defining that for every line adds many tags to a wps
00.53.25 #       <Llorean> amiconn: I guess I don't know. I apologize.
00.53.38 #       <Llorean> amiconn: The current one is an absolute line height, it sets the height for the whole WPS.
00.53.59 #       <amiconn> Viewports won't make line-based layout superfluous; the advantage of lined-based layout is that the caller doesn't have to care much about line hieght
00.54.02 #       <Llorean> I think it makes vertical positioning much more flexible.
00.54.29 #       <Llorean> amiconn: And I think being able to say "The line height for this WPS is 12px, no matter which font you use (even if it's only 8)" is something that is needed with line-based layout.
00.54.36 #       <amiconn> If someone wants to place certain lines differently, he will be able to use a viewport.
00.54.59 #       <Llorean> All it does is untie the line height of the WPS from the font-height, currently
00.55.17 #       <amiconn> Why would you ever want to do that?
00.55.28 #       <bluebrother> and ties it to some arbitrary value (which might cause other problems)
00.55.30 #       <Llorean> amiconn: So I can use smaller fonts in several of my WPSes?
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00.56.03 #       <amiconn> Making the line higher than the font wastes space, and making it smaller makes the text unreadable because of overlap
00.56.40 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Making the line height the same as the set font means the WPS looks the same. But allows users to pick a smaller font if they like the layout of the WPS, don't want to have to design new graphics, and want more lines in the menu.
00.57.11 #       <Nico_P> amiconn: some people like light design
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00.57.43 #       <Llorean> It makes WPSes less dependent on font
00.57.43 #       <amiconn> Gah, the icon code can't work properly as it is :(
00.57.47 #       <bluebrother> which could be done with viewports
00.57.49 #       <Llorean> It doesn't remove the dependency but it does lessen it.
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00.58.21 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: With viewports, EVERY WPS would have to make one viewport for every single line, for the same effect as this patch.
00.58.23 #       <Nico_P> I've tossed the idea in the ML... I have to go to bed now
00.58.52 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: With this patch a user can add it to their WPS with one tag if they decide they want to add it to an existing WPS, rather than rewriting every single line to include a viewport definition
00.59.12 #       <amiconn> Casting remote icons to fb_data is wrong for sure
00.59.31 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: As far as I'm concerned, defining 20 viewports is the workaround.
01.00.11 #       <Nico_P> that's how I feel too... viewports can't be the answer to *everything*
01.00.39 #       <Nico_P> and this is a eally simple but useful feature
01.00.39 #       <amiconn> Llorean: Just to clarify, viewport will allow to define variable sub-rectangles of the lcd. Rectangles. There won't be a z-order or something like that
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01.00.55 #       <pixelma> Nico_P: did you already change the "name" of the new tag? Otherwise I won't be able to test as my wps uses the virtual led tag...
01.01.01 #       <bluebrother> I don't think ther will be themes with 20 lines anyway
01.01.14 #       <Nico_P> pixelma: I'll post a new patch
01.01.30 #       <amiconn> That implies that the result of drawing into overlapping viewports will be undefined (well, it will be defined in that the last drawing operation wins)
01.01.34 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: It doesn't affect only one line.
01.01.37 #       <pixelma> maybe I'll test then
01.01.44 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Shoot, I was scrolled up, wrong response, sorry
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01.02.48 #       <bluebrother> I just was referring to mentioning a "workaround" using 20 viewports. I don't think a theme will use 20 lines anyway
01.03.09 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Even for 6 lines, it's less effort to add %lh 20 than to go through the WPS and adding a viewport definition for each and every line.
01.03.15 #       <alienbiker99> doesnt that depend on the player, like the gigabeats have a long screen
01.03.21 #       <Nico_P> ideas for the new name of the tag ?
01.03.25 #       <Llorean> alienbiker99: He means "Lines that contain visible text"
01.03.29 #       <alienbiker99> oh ok
01.03.37 #       <bluebrother> most of these fancy themes use like 5 lines and use icons for the rest. And they will use absolute positioning with viewports anyway because it's completely independent of the font or some tag
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01.04.04 #       <Nico_P> ok, it's %ls for now
01.04.14 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: You're making an assumption based on the majority of themes.
01.04.30 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: The majority of themes don't use the replaygain tag, the "album artist" tag, and a host of others.
01.04.33 #       <bluebrother> yes. On what should I base my assumption otherwise?
01.04.47 #       <Llorean> All themes.
01.04.50 #       <andrewy> my iriver h320 won't power on unless it's plugged in when rockbox and the rockbox bootloader is installed. i've tried the 1.30eu, 1.28eu, and 1.28k firmware, but all have the same problem. anyone know how to fix this?
01.04.58 #       <bluebrother> viewports will have much more flexibility, so the themes will use that.
01.05.00 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: You're generalizing and saying "because it's not overall useful, it's not useful at all"
01.05.13 #       <Nico_P> I have to go, gnight
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01.05.35 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Viewports have much more flexibility, but are not the best tool for the problem. They're just the most flexible one.
01.05.36 #       <bluebrother> no, I think the result can get differently without adding some new tag that also has some limitations
01.05.47 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: There is a WPS buffer limit, yes?
01.05.56 #       <bluebrother> why are they not the best solution for the problem?
01.06.07 #       <Llorean> Because you need MORE THAN ONE, to solve the problem
01.06.16 #       <Llorean> The more you use, the less WPS size you have for anything else.
01.06.19 #       <bluebrother> this heavily depends on the theme
01.06.34 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Any theme that needs just ONE viewport, needs none.
01.06.37 #       <bluebrother> do we already strip comments in the wps file when reading?
01.06.48 #       <Llorean> What does stripping comments have to do with it?
01.07.05 #       <bluebrother> it will be rendered as viewport anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.
01.07.30 #       <Llorean> My point is that if you have the problem, you either need a second viewport to solve it, or you need the %lh tag.
01.07.33 #       <bluebrother> it's just a question. Because if we don't we can still regain some buffer space
01.07.39 #       <Llorean> If you need a third viewport, then the %lh tag becomes more efficient.
01.07.43 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: We do strip comments.
01.07.55 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: And people still run into the limit on how large the WPS can be.
01.07.56 #       <bluebrother> good. Questions solved.
01.08.21 #       <bluebrother> yeah, but on what players? Anything that is non-color non-huge-lcd?
01.08.44 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: The buffers size allocated is based upon the screen size.
01.08.52 #       <Llorean> Larger screens get more.
01.09.30 #       <bluebrother> speaking of image buffers or text buffer?
01.09.30 #       <Llorean> My point is that you can either tell users "you have to waste space in your buffer on defining multiple viewports" or you can say "here, use this one tag that doest the exact same thing more efficiently"
01.09.34 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Text
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01.09.44 #       <Llorean> Image buffer is really easy to use up
01.09.53 #       <bluebrother> I know.
01.10.02 #       <Llorean> Partially because we don't expand it when we add new codecs.
01.10.12 #       <bluebrother> but I'm kinda used to other code ATM.
01.10.27 #       <Llorean> I just think that you're assuming that since viewports is flexible enough to allow for a solution, that it's a good solution.
01.10.36 #       <Llorean> Viewports is a good solution for absolute positioning.
01.10.39 #       <bluebrother> no.
01.10.51 #       <Llorean> But for reducing the WPS dependence on font height, it's very well not.
01.11.06 #       <bluebrother> I don't think this is a good solution and I think it will be used rarely only, if it will be used at all.
01.11.40 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: There are plenty of WPSes in our gallery already that could make use of it effectively
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01.12.10 #       <bluebrother> I don't think we will get to a point with this discussion.
01.12.12 #       <andrewy> how do you build the bootloader from svn?
01.12.29 #       <Llorean> Whether the author chooses to is different, but plenty of WPSes _could_ benefit from it, and that's as good as you get with the replaygain tags.
01.12.29 #       <bluebrother> andrewy, like the build, just choose "bootloader" when configuring
01.12.46 #       <bluebrother> Llorean, plus, it's late here. Let's wait what the others say about this.
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01.12.57 #       <bluebrother> but I'm still not convinced.
01.13.00 #       <andrewy> bluebrother: thanks
01.13.13 #       <bluebrother> it's always a tradeoff between flexibility and complexity.
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01.13.51 #       <bluebrother> and, as a professor said in some lecture I attended, "You need to die one death anyway"
01.14.17 #       <amiconn> bluebrother: Viewports are not only for wps, by far
01.14.45 #       <Llorean> bluebrother: Yes, it always is.
01.14.53 #       <Llorean> I agree, we're probably going to stay disagreeing on this one. :)
01.15.04 #       <Llorean> And it's odd, I'm the one arguing to add "fluff" :-P
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01.15.25 #       <bluebrother> that's indeed kinda odd ;-)
01.15.40 #       <Llorean> But it's entirely self-serving fluff!
01.15.55 #       <amiconn> bleh
01.16.01 #       <bluebrother> but I'm out for some sleep now. It's quite late and I need to do some Java programming tomorrow (man, do I hate this)
01.16.21 #       <amiconn> Why does gcc not like my intended workaround for the screen bitmap functions?
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01.28.56 #       <amiconn> hi JdGordon
01.29.10 #       <amiconn> Why are there no viewer icons displayed on my H180?
01.29.24 #       <amiconn> The main unit shows nothing, and the remote just shows question marks...
01.29.42 #       <JdGordon> have you got a viewers.bmp file in icons?
01.29.55 #       <JdGordon> you didnt fix screen_access.c last night :(
01.30.09 #       <amiconn> I am about to; it's still nbight here
01.30.17 #       <amiconn> 1:30 am
01.30.28 #       <amiconn> I also cleaned up icon.c
01.30.41 #       <JdGordon> :)
01.30.45 #       <amiconn> Using fb_data for the remote doesn't sound like the right way...
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01.31.06 #       <amiconn> Btw, is there a reason why the question mark should only be displayed on the remote?
01.31.26 #       <amiconn> fb_remote_data is a different type than fb_data
01.32.08 #       <amiconn> I am using void* now, this at least points out that these pointers are generic, and no assumptions should be made about the data format
01.32.13 #       <JdGordon> well.. its just a pointer really..
01.33.00 #       <amiconn> What about the question mark?
01.33.05 #       <JdGordon> the ? iss there because unless we introduce 2 .icons file (one for main and one for remote) its very possible that you load a main viewers.bmp but not remote so the icons are not available
01.33.14 #       <JdGordon> but showing no icon looks bad
01.33.16 #       <amiconn> And why is get_icon_width() defined to return 6 for charcell?
01.33.44 #       <amiconn> If needed at all, it should return 1, everything else is wrong
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01.34.26 #       <amiconn> Why don't I have a viewers.bmp after installing the latest build (from a zip)?
01.34.58 #       <amiconn> This is going to confuse users...
01.35.38 #       <JdGordon> you should ave viewers.bmp
01.35.48 #       <amiconn> Then why isn't it used?
01.35.59 #       <JdGordon> and woops (get_icon_width())
01.36.03 #       <JdGordon> it is used..
01.36.14 #       <JdGordon> whats your viewers iconset: line in the cfg?
01.36.43 #       <amiconn> none
01.37.41 #       <JdGordon> and you definatly have the bmp in icons/?
01.37.43 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: I see no apps/plugins/bitmaps/viewer_defaults/viewers.6x8x2.bmp in your commit - maybe that's the problem with greyscale targets (?)
01.37.46 #       <JdGordon> this isnt charcell right?
01.38.04 #       <amiconn> No, only remote_viewers.bmp
01.38.14 #       <amiconn> But remote viewer icons don't work either
01.38.40 #       <JdGordon> bah, pixelma is crrect
01.38.52 #       <pixelma> iirc Lear already pointed that out earlier
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01.40.27 #       <pixelma> funny it worked in the M5-sim
01.41.31 #       <pixelma> hmm... maybe I haven't looked close enough
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01.43.56 #       <amiconn> gah
01.44.03 #       <JdGordon> seems to be working almost correctly now in the sim with the added bmp
01.44.12 #       <JdGordon> remote viewer icon is off tho
01.44.15 #       * amiconn confused his recorder and H180, and unzipped th erecorder build to the H180 :(
01.44.26 #       <JdGordon> well done :D
01.44.46 #       <amiconn> Too many usb ports problem ;{
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01.45.14 #       <pixelma> well... wouldn't have happened that easily with the mini... :P
01.45.40 #       <pixelma> although... I take that back
01.46.38 #       <JdGordon> what you need is a chep laptop with only 2 usb ports and which doesnt like usb hubs!
01.46.42 #       <JdGordon> then it doesnt happen
01.48.06 #       <amiconn> viewer icons don't work on recorder either. All blank
01.48.14 #       <amiconn> (but it doesn't crash anymore)
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01.48.52 #       <JdGordon> something wierd is happening with the remote viewer icons which wasnt hapening last night :(
01.48.56 #       <andrewy> anyone use an iriver h320 with rockbox?
01.49.01 #       <amiconn> viewers.bmp is there
01.49.18 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: and viewers.config is correct?
01.50.06 #       <amiconn> Looks like it is
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01.55.28 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: sorry, i gotta get to uni now, ill have a look later today
01.56.06 #       * amiconn just committed the crash fix & cleanup
01.57.27 #       <job_> hey does anyone have any experience with the mp3 encoder chip (the micronas MAS3587F)?
02.02.11 #       <job_> anyone there?
02.02.36 #       <Llorean> job_: If someone had the information you wanted, they'd have answered.
02.03.07 #       <Llorean> If they're around, that is
02.03.25 #       <amiconn> job_: I know the mas a bit, but I won't be around for long now, as it's already 2 am
02.03.58 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Should the .bmp extension be part of the setting (i.e. in the .cfg) or not?
02.04.08 #       <JdGordon> yes
02.04.14 #       <JdGordon> full path
02.04.29 #       <amiconn> Okay, so appending .bmp a second time can't be right...
02.04.36 #       <JdGordon> hehe no
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02.04.45 #       <job_> amiconn: do you know if there is anything tricky with powering up the chip?
02.05.39 #       <JdGordon> amiconn: yellow :)
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02.06.14 #       <amiconn> Bah, sure
02.06.36 #       <amiconn> I knew I would be trapped by -Wundef one day...
02.08.08 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Lear's change caused the non-working default icons, but I don't really get which places should store the path in what way atm
02.10.18 #       <JdGordon> ah ok. they are standard filename settings.. so only the name is stored, the path and extension are added when they need to be used
02.10.43 #       <JdGordon> if the setting[0] == - or \0 it should load the defaults..
02.10.47 #       * JdGordon gone
02.12.10 #       * amiconn thinks that a target with no main lcd will be fun to get warning-free with -Wundef in place... :\
02.15.43 #       <Hammer89> can anyone here help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with trying to install a custom icon set?
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02.18.30 #       <kkurbjun> anyone around who has a gigabeat X?
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02.26.41 #       <Hammer89> *bangs head on table*
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02.27.21 #       <aliask> Haha, hammerhead...
02.27.27 #       <Hammer89> :)
02.27.44 #       <Hammer89> it's all these custom icons fault :P
02.28.23 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: Have you tried looking at one of the completed sets and just modifying it?
02.28.49 #       <Hammer89> I tried using the "Tango Theme" from here http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IconSets
02.29.17 #       <Hammer89> I put both .bmp files and the .icons file in a folder called "icons" in the .rockbox folder
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02.29.45 #       <Hammer89> and I ran the .cfg file... but it didn't do a thing
02.30.04 #       <aliask> Tried restarting, sometimes that helps.
02.30.10 #       <Hammer89> tried it
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02.30.23 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: And what SVN revision are you running?
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02.30.47 #       <Hammer89> the most recent... well... at least recent enough that it should have included the custom icons
02.31.20 #       <Hammer89> I suppose I could try installing *the* latest version....
02.31.49 #       <Llorean> Are your current icons the same color as your font, or black?
02.31.57 #       <Llorean> Assuming non-black font
02.32.03 #       <Hammer89> my font is black
02.32.22 #       <Llorean> Change its color real quick, to just  dark gray, and see if the current icons change color.
02.32.24 #       <Hammer89> the current (default?) icons are also black
02.32.29 #       <Hammer89> okay
02.33.05 #       <Llorean> kkurbjun: They can, or most of them would've been asking how to revert to an older build (most people don't know about the bootloader USB mode on Gigabeat, it's not automatic)
02.33.20 #       <Llorean> kkurbjun: Or I'd guess they can, unless they're uninstalling Rockbox entirely each time
02.34.01 #       <Hammer89> Llorean: it didn't work
02.34.13 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: What didn't work?
02.34.17 #       <Llorean> You can't change the font color?
02.34.22 #       <Hammer89> oh... wait
02.34.29 #       <Hammer89> to see if the default icons change color?
02.34.37 #       <Hammer89> sorry
02.34.42 #       <Hammer89> misread what you wrote :)
02.34.55 #       <kkurbjun> Llorean, I was wondering if they are using the bootloader feature that allows them to swap the fwimg01.dat file so they can boot with the old fw
02.35.11 #       <Hammer89> the font color and icon color changed
02.35.16 #       <Llorean> kkurbjun: It's possible, I hadn't thought of that until right after I typed the line.
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02.35.21 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: You aren't using a build with custom icons.
02.35.26 #       <Hammer89> Hmmm
02.35.30 #       <Hammer89> odd...
02.35.35 #       <Hammer89> let me go update then
02.35.40 #       <Llorean> Well, you did say you had to make an icons folder
02.35.43 #       <Llorean> That was my first clue
02.35.48 #       <Hammer89> mmhmm...
02.35.59 #       <Llorean> Seeing as it's included, 'n all. :-P
02.36.09 #       <Llorean> It's generally a good idea to make sure you're SVN current before asking for help
02.36.12 #       <Hammer89> that could do it, I guess... ;)
02.36.31 #       <Hammer89> I figured it was... I uploaded a new one late-ish today
02.36.44 #       <Llorean> Did you do the daily?
02.36.46 #       <kkurbjun> Llorean, I can't seem to track anyone down who has a gigabeat X to actually discuss/test anything
02.36.51 #       <Hammer89> no... not the daily
02.36.53 #       <Llorean> kkurbjun: Yeah, there aren't many of them.
02.36.59 #       <Hammer89> http://download.rockbox.org/daily/sansae200/rockbox-sansae200.zip
02.37.06 #       <Hammer89> errrr.... maybe it is?
02.37.07 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: See the word "daily"?
02.37.08 #       <kkurbjun> you don't happen to know who has one or when they might be available
02.37.14 #       <krazykit> kkurbjun, i have a gigabeat f, which is mostly the same
02.37.25 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: Use the one from the "Current Build" page, or you're always going to be out of date.
02.37.31 #       <Llorean> krazykit: It's an X-only problem
02.37.35 #       <krazykit> ah.
02.37.36 #       <Llorean> kkurbjun: Toffe82
02.37.58 #       <Llorean> markun: Know anyone else besides Toffe with an X?
02.38.04 #       <kkurbjun> Llorean, yeah, he has a broken one, hopefully he'll have a fully working one at the end of the week
02.38.21 #       <Hammer89> wow... how dumb of me
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02.40.49 #       <Hammer89> it worked... thanks for the help :)
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02.45.20 #       <aliask> Does rockbox support ID3 2.4 tags?
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02.47.27 #       <Llorean> aliask: Yes.
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02.48.08 #       <aliask> Jolly good then :)
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02.55.08 #       <Good_Apollo> hello
02.55.38 #       <Good_Apollo> Booted up my ipod..didnt boot up as rockbox
02.56.10 #       <Llorean> Good_Apollo: You're not telling us very much. First time install, after an apple update, or what?
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03.09.17 #       <Good_Apollo> heres the thing
03.09.38 #       <Good_Apollo> I restored my ipod to original settiings..cause im going to switch from database to file tree
03.09.50 #       <Good_Apollo> And i put Rockbox back onto the hard drive
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03.09.55 #       <Good_Apollo> and it will not boot into rockbox
03.10.08 #       <Good_Apollo> i am sure im missing something..but not sure what
03.10.14 #       <aliask> When you restored the iPod, it deleted the bootloader, you'll need to reinstall it
03.10.24 #       <Good_Apollo> link for the bootloader?
03.10.38 #       <aliask> http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
03.10.53 #       <Good_Apollo> thank you sir =]
03.10.57 #       <aliask> :)
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03.12.07 #       <Good_Apollo> is the bootloader incuded in the .Zip?
03.12.13 #       <Good_Apollo> included*
03.12.49 #       <aliask> What I linked were the manuals. If you just want to quickly check it, select whichever ipod you have, and look under the "installation" section. It'll link you to the bootloader installer from there.
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03.15.18 #       <w0lfie> heya
03.15.20 #       <Good_Apollo> okay..im there
03.15.23 #       <Good_Apollo> need the installer
03.15.53 #       <aliask> hey there w0lfie
03.16.04 #       <w0lfie> yo :)
03.17.18 #       <w0lfie> for the iaudio port, the power handling is listed at a status of 10%. can anyone elaborate any further on this?
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03.18.22 #       <w0lfie> does anyone run rockbox on an iaudio?
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03.19.02 #       <Good_Apollo> Bootloader link? on the manual =]
03.19.23 #       <Llorean> Good_Apollo: The link is in the manual...
03.19.33 #       <Good_Apollo> i dont see it
03.19.36 #       <Llorean> amiconn: Either your change or JDGordon's change seems to have broken something with icons.
03.19.36 #       * Good_Apollo is blind
03.20.06 #       <Llorean> amiconn: All of my builtin filetypes (both m3u and audio files) seem to be using the "System" icon.
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03.21.06 #       * Good_Apollo punches self
03.21.13 #       <Good_Apollo> im stupid, dont see a link
03.21.54 #       <aliask> Are you looking int he "installing the boot loader" section?
03.22.40 #       <Good_Apollo> im looking at installing rockbox
03.22.45 #       <Good_Apollo> than it talks abut the bootloader
03.22.49 #       <Good_Apollo> about*
03.23.04 #       <Good_Apollo> Ahh found it
03.23.09 #       <Good_Apollo> Thanks! =D
03.23.17 #       <aliask> :P enjoy
03.23.21 #       <Good_Apollo> i will
03.23.25 #       <Good_Apollo> gotta get this File tree goin
03.23.28 #       <aliask> :)
03.23.46 #       <Good_Apollo> Database= too slow, gotta get away from the Devil we call "itunes" lol
03.24.06 #       <aliask> A wise choice in my opinion.
03.25.16 #       <Good_Apollo> now..lets see if she boots up
03.25.32 #       <Good_Apollo> yup =D
03.25.35 #       <Good_Apollo> themes now
03.26.24 #       <w0lfie> so no one runs the rockbox on an iaudio x5?
03.26.32 #       <w0lfie> come on...there must be someone ;)
03.26.38 #       <Llorean> Jdgordon: Assuming you might see it in the logs: Icon #16, denoted as "Question Mark", is being used for the System menu on my player. As well, it's being used for all inbuilt file types (.mp3, .m3u, .flac)
03.28.11 #       <Llorean> Oops, forgot "System" and "System Menu" are two different things.
03.28.47 #       <aliask> w0lfie: It's currently the middle of the night for most of europe, so quite a few people around here are asleep.
03.28.47 #       <Llorean> w0lfie: What question did you have, beyond the one regarding the out of date IaudioPort page?
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03.33.02 #       <w0lfie> aliask: ahh right, that doesn't help huh :)
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03.34.23 #       <w0lfie> Llorean: well, i just spotted on the iaudio port page that the power handling is at 10% and was wondering if that's still the case and if it's a big downside about using an iaudio?
03.34.49 #       <w0lfie> basically, i'm wanting to get an iaudio and just want to see what people think about it
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03.37.57 #       <Llorean> Rockbox works quite well on it.
03.38.14 #       <Llorean> And battery life is on par to the original firmware, I believe.
03.41.29 #       <w0lfie> oh ok, that's good to know :)
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03.45.04 #       <Good_Apollo> one more question
03.45.24 #       <Good_Apollo> on rockbox..it totally kills my battery life, a friend said i need something enabled but i cant remember
03.45.28 #       <Good_Apollo> any ideas?
03.46.57 #       <Llorean> Good_Apollo: On the iPod, battery life is pretty bad. See the IpodRuntime page for comparisons.
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03.47.17 #       <Good_Apollo> it was fine before..life is 14 hrs
03.47.32 #       <Llorean> And in Rockbox, it's bad.
03.47.41 #       <Good_Apollo> yeah
03.47.50 #       <Llorean> As I said, on the iPod battery life is pretty bad.
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03.47.55 #       <Llorean> This is #Rockbox, I'm referring to Rockbox.
03.48.08 #       <Good_Apollo> my friend san, said that something about the hard drive loading every song, something in disk settings
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03.48.27 #       <Good_Apollo> ill just ask him tomorrow
03.48.32 #       <Good_Apollo> hes got the ipod like mine
03.48.43 #       <Good_Apollo> he said after he enabled it, everything was peachy
03.49.03 #       <Llorean> Look, if you don't believe me fine.
03.49.21 #       <Llorean> We have thousands of users, and they all get somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of their normal battery life while running Rockbox.
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03.49.54 #       <Good_Apollo> nah dude, i beleve you
03.49.54 #       <Good_Apollo> this just might make it a tiny bit better
03.50.14 #       <Llorean> There are settings that can make it better (or worse), depending on how you use your player.
03.50.26 #       <Good_Apollo> kk
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04.10.08 #       <BHSPitMonkey> off-topic, but someone might know:
04.10.44 #       <BHSPitMonkey> would it be a common ordeal to get a piece that condenses both channels on a headphone jack into mono?
04.10.56 #       <BHSPitMonkey> (some kind of pass-thru adapter)
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04.31.20 #       <Hammer89> something like this? http://www.musician.com/product/Planet-Waves-3.5mm-Stereo-Female-3.5mm-Mono-Male-Adapter?sku=335222&src=GWNTWXX
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04.44.33 #       <saratoga> Llorean:  did you get a chance to run RMAA load tests on the Sansa?
04.48.15 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Not yet, no, sorry.
04.49.23 #       <Llorean> saratoga: I'd really like to wait until Rockbox's sound setup is stable anyway, it's still not good without patches.
04.55.55 #       <saratoga> I thought results were the same now?
04.56.15 #       <saratoga> will take a second look at what you posted
04.56.43 #       <Llorean> saratoga: Rockbox without a patch is bad, Rockbox with a patch is similar to the Gigabeat.
04.58.35 #       <saratoga> oh sorry, missed the "out" in "without patches"
04.59.06 #       <Llorean> Ah
04.59.24 #       <Llorean> Right now I couldn't get Rockbox to a suitable volume without clipping.
04.59.54 #       <saratoga> makes sense
05.00.02 #       <saratoga> i noticed Toni put up yet another sansa patch
05.00.42 #       <Llorean> Yeah, kinda a combination patch, I wish he'd separate things more clearly
05.06.20 #       <saratoga> its not clear to me what he means
05.06.29 #       <saratoga> does this obviate the previous changes in the antiglitch patch
05.06.37 #       <saratoga> or are they rolled into what this patch needs to apply
05.08.21 #       <Llorean> That's the problem, I'm not sure.
05.08.29 #       <Llorean> If it's to fix power consumption, it shouldn't include any of those
05.08.42 #       <Llorean> And if there are new changes to the anti-glitch they should've been posted to it, separately
05.09.07 #       <saratoga> I'll ask him
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05.10.37 #       <saratoga> whats the issue on 6908 anyway?
05.10.55 #       <saratoga> I was under the impression it fixed the issue
05.11.50 #       <Llorean> I'm not sure, honestly
05.11.53 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05.12.19 #       <saratoga> i guess that its a little hackish
05.12.27 #       <saratoga> disabling cache flushes
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05.58.34 #       <derty> hello
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06.49.41 #       <LordV> Hello
06.49.58 #       <LordV> is anyboy here?
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07.01.58 #       <tsuyoshi> no
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07.06.04 #       <Good_Apollo> Hey guys..quick question
07.06.11 #       <Good_Apollo> where to i extract my themes?
07.06.28 #       <Good_Apollo> =]
07.08.14 #       <aliask> In the themes directory?
07.08.29 #       <perldiver> with a properly zipped them the root will do
07.08.33 #       <perldiver> theme*
07.09.09 #       <Good_Apollo> i put them in there..nothing shows in the Browse themes
07.09.09 #       <perldiver> hey aliask, great set of icons :P
07.09.10 #       <perldiver> using them since day one
07.10.16 #       <aliask> Cheers. Gotta say I love em too :)
07.10.33 #       <Good_Apollo> so .rockbox/themes ?
07.10.37 #       <perldiver> Good_Apollo
07.10.47 #       <perldiver> inside .rockbox there should be 3 folders
07.10.53 #       <perldiver> backdrops
07.10.54 #       <perldiver> themes
07.10.55 #       <perldiver> wps
07.11.07 #       <Good_Apollo> ok
07.11.07 Quit    daniel2023 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
07.11.13 #       <perldiver> when you download a theme, a proper zipped one keeps the structure
07.11.19 #       <perldiver> if not, you have to do it manually
07.11.25 #       <Good_Apollo> okay
07.11.27 #       <Good_Apollo> thnx
07.11.46 #       <Good_Apollo> aliask, you wouldnt happen to live in the UK would you?
07.11.57 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07.12.05 #       <aliask> Melbourne, Australia actually.
07.12.09 #       <Good_Apollo> ahh
07.12.23 #       <Good_Apollo> you seem like someone i know from the UK..just wondering ;]
07.12.35 #       <perldiver> aliask navigating is a blast with them really
07.12.36 #       <aliask> Heh. Sorry to disappoint.
07.12.52 #       <Good_Apollo> its fine
07.13.16 #       <aliask> Oops, lost track of time. Gotta run!
07.13.16 #       <perldiver> now if only i could make this new dict patch to work
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07.14.55 #       <Good_Apollo> i extracted it and all..i dont see it in "Browse themes"
07.16.34 #       <perldiver> do see those 3 folders inside your /.rockbox folder ?
07.16.43 #       <Good_Apollo> yeah
07.16.47 #       <perldiver> check whats inside
07.16.57 #       <Good_Apollo> theres a lose file, .DS_store
07.17.02 #       <Good_Apollo> what do i do with that one?
07.17.08 #       <perldiver> do you see cfg and other related files to the themse you just unpacked?
07.17.17 #       <Good_Apollo> yes
07.17.53 #       <perldiver> ds_store, are you on a mac?
07.18.00 #       <Good_Apollo> nope
07.18.22 #       <perldiver> how did you get one then heh
07.18.29 #       <Good_Apollo> not sure..
07.18.31 #       <Good_Apollo> lol
07.18.37 #       <perldiver> aha
07.18.47 #       <perldiver> probably from the theme author
07.18.47 #       <Good_Apollo> 0_o
07.19.12 #       <Good_Apollo> what do you reccomend i do than?
07.19.25 #       <perldiver> did you try with different themes?
07.19.30 #       <Good_Apollo> yeah
07.19.30 #       <Good_Apollo> 2
07.19.45 #       <perldiver> do you see both of them insides those folders?
07.20.09 #       <Good_Apollo> yeah..on the computer, but not on my ipod
07.20.29 #       <perldiver> what do you mean?
07.20.56 #       <perldiver> for example
07.21.05 #       <Good_Apollo> im looking at the files in the drive, USB connected..but then when i unplug it and reboot, it doesnt show up in "browse themes"
07.21.09 #       <perldiver> inside your /.rockbox/wps folder you should see
07.21.31 #       <perldiver> a file called whatevertheme.wps
07.21.42 #       <perldiver> and a folder with the images used
07.21.44 #       <perldiver> with the same name
07.22.14 #       <Good_Apollo> let me try extracting it again
07.23.25 #       <perldiver> insides /.rockbox/themes should be a .cfg file with the same name
07.23.37 #       <Good_Apollo> hmm..this is very odd
07.23.42 #       <perldiver> and inside /.rockbox/backdrop an image
07.23.48 #       <Good_Apollo> i extracted it..its not showing at all now..
07.23.51 #       <perldiver> all with the theme name
07.24.05 #       <Good_Apollo> I understand what you are saying though ^_^
07.24.07 #       <perldiver> then you're extracting somewhere else
07.24.14 #       <perldiver> try this
07.24.24 #       <perldiver> extract them 1st to a separate folder
07.24.35 #       <perldiver> make sure you see 3 folders, like i said
07.24.42 #       <perldiver> if eveything is alright
07.24.47 #       <perldiver> copy them to your player
07.24.57 #       <perldiver> in /.rockbox
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07.28.41 #       <Good_Apollo> yeah..i think i got it d00d, thanks!
07.29.21 #       <Good_Apollo> the now playing screen doesnt look correct though..must have missed something
07.30.11 #       <perldiver> did you download the font pack?
07.30.39 #       <perldiver> http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip
07.30.40 #       <Good_Apollo> not yet
07.30.42 #       <Good_Apollo> thanks
07.30.43 #       <perldiver> might help
07.30.56 #       <Good_Apollo> i just extract that to/.rockbox correct?
07.31.01 #       <perldiver> yep
07.31.05 #       <Good_Apollo> kk
07.33.25 #       <Good_Apollo> still doesnt look right..
07.34.14 #       <Good_Apollo> the now playing screen is supposed to look diff
07.35.13 #       <perldiver> browse to the themes and select it again
07.35.21 #       <perldiver> reload it
07.35.56 #       <perldiver> if that doesn't help, then it needs a "custom" build with various patches
07.36.14 #       <Good_Apollo> didnt work =[
07.37.53 #       <Good_Apollo> what kinda patch?
07.37.59 #       <perldiver> link me to the theme
07.38.13 #       <Good_Apollo> http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip
07.38.16 #       <Good_Apollo> called Cobalt
07.40.02 #       <Good_Apollo> find it?
07.41.22 #       <perldiver> hold on
07.42.09 #       <perldiver> Requires a build with Album Art and Scrolling Margins I suggest either Senab's build or EvilG's build
07.42.28 #       <Good_Apollo> where can i find it?
07.42.30 #       <perldiver> you can find more info here
07.42.34 #       <perldiver> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?board=36.0
07.42.51 #       <Good_Apollo> ok thanks
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07.43.04 #       <webguest46> Hello
07.43.17 #       <Good_Apollo> hi webgeust
07.43.18 #       <webguest46> I've got a question please
07.43.43 #       <Good_Apollo> shoot
07.44.13 #       <webguest46> I'm trying to get those icons working: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IconSets
07.44.37 #       <webguest46> but it seems that there is just the first one usable
07.44.48 #       <perldiver> true
07.44.51 #       <webguest46> the 2 others need more files, no?
07.44.56 #       <perldiver> they do
07.45.07 #       <webguest46> how can I do please?
07.45.15 #       <perldiver> its easy to make them yourself though
07.45.28 #       <perldiver> just look at the 1st one as an example :P
07.45.55 #       <webguest46> I just wanted to test now before to go (no time atm for finish the thing)
07.46.30 #       <webguest46> how can I get  Untitled 12x13x16 working?
07.46.31 #       <perldiver> then you have to wait till authors update them
07.46.43 #       <Good_Apollo> whitch post do i see in the link you sent me perldiver?
07.47.05 #       <perldiver> Good_Apollo try EvilG's
07.47.25 #       <perldiver> Senab's hasnt been updated for awhile
07.47.38 #       <Good_Apollo> EvilG-Ice-30G-200704016?
07.47.46 #       <webguest46> I'm trying to find some little icons
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07.48.13 #       <webguest46> is there any other link that the gallery yet?
07.48.32 #       <Good_Apollo> Ice build updated SVN April 14
07.48.32 #       <Good_Apollo> EvilG-Ice-30G-20070414
07.49.13 #       <perldiver> Good_Apollo i dont use ipod so you're on your own there hehe
07.49.19 #       <Good_Apollo> i already got the .Zip for the first..extract to /.rockbox?
07.49.31 #       <ptw419> scramble.c is the tool used to encode a targets firmware right?
07.49.37 #       <Good_Apollo> nvm
07.49.44 #       <perldiver> Good_Apollo yes, if there are no additional instructions
07.50.10 #       <Good_Apollo> it has the folders like a theme..extract to those folders? or just to rockbox
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07.50.59 #       <perldiver> Good_Apollo just keep the same folder structure
07.52.30 #       <Good_Apollo> okay..ill have to pick this up tomorrow
07.52.32 #       <Good_Apollo> bye everyone
07.52.39 #       <Good_Apollo> and thnx perldiver
07.52.42 #       <perldiver> np
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07.53.52 #       <t3chth1rt3n> is anyone here?
07.54.48 #       <webguest46> perldriver: any hint please?
07.55.02 #       <rift> how version of gcc do you use to compile rockboxdev.sh ?
07.55.26 #       <rift> i have tried with gcc 3.3, gcc 4.1 gcc 3.4 it doesn't work
07.55.32 #       <perldiver> webguest46 you need an .icon file
07.55.35 #       <rift> /var/tmp//ccmfhh5o.s:131: Error: no such instruction: `ldr pc,[sp],'
07.55.36 #       <rift> gmake[3]: *** [crtbegin.o] Error 1
07.55.37 #       <rift> gmake[3]: Leaving directory `/root/build-rbdev/build-gcc/gcc'
07.55.53 #       <ptw419> can someone tell me what scramble does?
07.55.58 #       <t3chth1rt3n> so what needs to be done to port rockbox to a different mp3 player?
07.56.02 #       <scorche> rift: go to CrossCompiler
07.56.04 #       <perldiver> webguest46 .icons rather
07.56.18 #       <webguest46> how shall I made it?
07.56.26 #       <webguest46> with on of the wiki set
07.56.44 #       <perldiver> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/IconSets/tango_viewers.20x16x16.icons
07.56.58 #       <webguest46> too big for my screen
07.57.11 #       <perldiver> thats just an example
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07.57.13 #       <webguest46> I was looking for Stephan's one
07.57.14 #       <perldiver> edit that one
07.57.36 #       <perldiver> 0 - 1st icon in the viewers bmp
07.57.48 #       <perldiver> m stands for "main" bmp set
07.58.20 #       <webguest46> I must have to wait for an wiki update then, thanks anyway
07.58.29 #       <webguest46> (I've got no time atm)
07.58.41 #       <perldiver> its easier than you think but ok
07.58.59 #       * webguest46 have to go to work ;)
07.59.11 #       <webguest46> but feel free to made it for me ;p
07.59.18 #       <perldiver> hehe
07.59.21 #       <perldiver> going to bed
07.59.54 #       <webguest46> good night then (morning here in europe)
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08.00.32 #       <perldiver> have fun at work :P
08.00.52 #       <webguest46> isn't StefanSaftescu around?
08.00.57 #       <webguest46> thanks
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08.03.07 #       <webguest46> JdGordon: maybe you can help me please; I'm trying to use StefanSaftescu's cons on the gallery but some files missing, any hint please?
08.03.17 #       <webguest46> icons
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08.05.14 #       <JdGordon> whats the problem?
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08.07.29 #       <webguest46> need some files, refering to the explanation, no?
08.08.09 #       <webguest46> there are just  2 bmps files
08.08.34 #       <JdGordon> yes, it needs a .cfg and possibly a .icons file
08.09.13 #       <webguest46> is the icons file really needed
08.09.21 #       <JdGordon> no
08.09.26 #       <webguest46> for the config  can edit one
08.09.40 #       <webguest46> then I can use it just with those 2 files?
08.09.48 #       <JdGordon> yes
08.10.02 #       <webguest46> nice, let's try
08.10.12 #       <webguest46> thanks for the hint
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08.13.19 #       <webguest46> what is his? :http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/IconSets?rev=1;filename=silk.18x17x16.bmp
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08.16.17 #       <JdGordon> right click - save as
08.17.50 #       * webguest46 is trying...
08.18.29 #       <perldiver> JdGordon .icons file is not needed?
08.18.35 #       <webguest46> wow working, that's nice
08.18.36 #       <perldiver> erm
08.18.40 #       <JdGordon> perldiver: its optinoal
08.18.43 #       <webguest46> with just those 2 bmps
08.18.50 #       <webguest46> I didn't know
08.18.51 #       <JdGordon> if your ok with viewers.config then you dont need .icons
08.19.00 #       <webguest46> I made one
08.19.29 #       <perldiver> JdGordon ah i see
08.19.45 #       <webguest46> JdGordon: nice works man, thanks again
08.19.49 #       <webguest46> bye all
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08.22.58 #       * JdGordon doesnt get magnus's commit :'(
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08.33.42 #       <Ibugppl[CP]> Ello there
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08.39.58 #       <pondlife> JdGordon: Sorry, can you explain what the .icons file does again?  Is it only required where a non-standard viewers.config is used?
08.40.13 #       <pondlife> The wiki page isn't very clear on this.
08.40.29 #       <JdGordon> its to give a supported extension a different icon from either the built in icon or the viewers.config icon
08.42.12 #       <pondlife> Hmm, so it's like a user-extension of viewers.config, right?
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08.52.56 #       <hen3rz> Hi guys i was wondering if anyone has looked into the backlight bug in X series players? FS#7037
08.52.59 #       <hen3rz> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7037
08.54.07 #       <hen3rz> Also are there any Gigabeat X series users online who are experiencing the same problem?
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09.27.25 #       <linuxstb_> hen3rz: Very few people (and no developers afaik) own an X - but I think kkurbjun is looking into the problems and needs an X owner to help him test.
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09.29.04 #       <hen3rz> linuxstb: Im more then willing to help! although im not quite sure on how to apply patches but I'm more then willing to learn.
09.30.43 #       <linuxstb> hen3rz: OK.  Just hang around and try and catch kkurbjun next time he's online.
09.31.08 #       <hen3rz> okilie
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10.07.04 #       <SliMM> JdGordon: I have an iconset, but the icons' height is greater than the font's height. What should i do?
10.07.26 #       <JdGordon> change font
10.07.34 #       <LinusN> SliMM: shrink the icons or use a larger font
10.07.50 #       <SliMM> LinusN: damn..
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10.08.11 #       <linuxstb> SliMM: How would you expect it to work?
10.09.12 #       <SliMM> linuxstb: the line's height should be at least the same height as the icon's height
10.09.27 #       <JdGordon> no, the lines work on the font height
10.09.40 #       <SliMM> yes, that's the problem.. :)
10.09.54 #       <JdGordon> not so easy to "fix" though
10.10.08 #       <SliMM> why's that?
10.10.35 #       * SliMM is shrinking some icons :)
10.10.47 #       <linuxstb> screen->line_height = MAX(icon_height,font_height);   ???
10.11.35 #       <JdGordon> oh so it is easy to fix :p
10.11.45 #       <JdGordon> no there is more than that...
10.11.52 #       <linuxstb> No, I doubt screen->line_height exists...
10.12.04 #       <JdGordon> screen->nb_lines is closer...
10.12.17 #       <JdGordon> but yeah, the lcd driver needs to know the line height iirc
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10.13.03 #       <SliMM> and what's the sapcing between the lines?
10.13.16 #       <JdGordon> assuming there is no bad sideeffects with 7036, is there any reason other than it has 2 patches in it to not comit it?
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10.13.28 #       <JdGordon> SliMM: 1px, i tinhk
10.13.33 #       <JdGordon> either 1 or 0
10.13.41 #       <SliMM> i'll go for one :)
10.14.34 #       <linuxstb> I thought it was 0 - and fonts have padding in them.  But I could be wrong...
10.14.51 #       <JdGordon> oh, if fonts have padding then its 0
10.15.11 #       <linuxstb> As I said, I'm not 100% sure.
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10.23.32 #       <JdGordon> is cpu boosting "expensive"? I mean, if the oost ratio while playing is 75%+ is there even point enabling the scaling?
10.24.38 #       <JdGordon> or even 50% (constantly boost - unboosting)
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10.30.13 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: Did you check my icon fixes?
10.30.49 #       <JdGordon> I had a quick look, looked find
10.30.52 #       <JdGordon> fine*
10.30.59 #       <JdGordon> had to fix lear's commit though
10.31.04 #       <amiconn> And yes, cpu scaling is useful even if boost ratio is high
10.31.22 #       <JdGordon> 16bit remote lcd? anyone have one already or just a pipe dream? :)
10.31.40 #       <amiconn> What's somewhat expensive is the actual switching, so it shouldn't be done too often
10.31.52 #       <JdGordon> yeah, thats whats happening
10.31.58 #       <JdGordon> 50% constantly switching
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10.32.37 #       <amiconn> 16 bit remote lcd is for completeness, and to avoid unexpected effects later. The multi-screen api is designed to be flexible
10.33.14 #       <linuxstb> If TV-Out support is ever added to Rockbox (e.g. some of the ipods have the ability), then 16-bit second screens will be needed.
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10.35.04 #       <JdGordon> so we could expect ~3fps on 640x480 ? :D
10.35.20 #       <linuxstb> If you're lucky.
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10.36.02 #       <B4gder> 720x576! ;*)
10.36.42 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Is this ipod tv out handled as a separate display or does it just mirror the lcd?
10.37.10 #       <linuxstb> It's a separate framebuffer - in the Apple firmware it doesn't display the main UI, just photos or videos IIUC.
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10.41.34 #       <amiconn> linuxstb: Do we know the resolution, and how to use it?
10.42.38 #       <JdGordon> I assume it would be standard tv res.. 640x480 (or 400?) to keep the chip cheap?
10.42.47 #       <daurnimator> hey all (jd)
10.43.08 #       <PaulJam> JdGordon: is it normal, that some inbuilt filetypes now only show the correct icon when i specify them in the .icons file? for example fonts use the questionmark/system icon unless i add the line "fnt:*6" to the .icons file.
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10.43.45 #       <JdGordon> hey daurnimator
10.43.51 #       <JdGordon> PaulJam: no, thats a bug if thats happening
10.44.17 #       <JdGordon> can you update your icon pack to show the rockbox logo instead of the music note? and a few icons are just numbers?
10.44.30 #       * JdGordon loves your icon set btw... works well with the icatcher theme
10.45.12 #       <PaulJam> JdGordon: it is still a work in progress
10.45.53 #       <amiconn> TV resolution is either 704x480 (ntsc) or 704x576 (pal) afaik
10.46.05 #       <B4gder> 720x576
10.46.07 #       <JdGordon> LinusN: I'm only a small fella, you reckon if I got on a barge now I'd be in sweden on time? Im  sure it would cost less than 100 euro :D
10.46.10 #       <B4gder> for pal
10.46.24 #       <JdGordon> since when? isnt tv 640x480?? /me was lied to!
10.46.29 #       <B4gder> nope
10.46.32 #       <B4gder> it never was
10.46.41 #       <B4gder> that's VGA
10.46.44 #       <LinusN> JdGordon: wonderful idea
10.47.21 #       * JdGordon unlearns
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10.47.42 #       <scorche> JdGordon: find one form the west-coast of north america while you are at it please
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10.48.08 #       <B4gder> what's a "barge" ?
10.48.12 #       <t3chth1rt33n> hello?
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10.48.30 #       * B4gder 's poor language skills show
10.48.31 #       <t3chth1rt33n> ok...where can I find rockbox source code?
10.48.40 #       <daurnimator> barge = big boat (not massive) for transporting.... stuff
10.48.44 #       <JdGordon> B4gder: a blank of iron that floats and usually carries rubbish up a river
10.48.58 #       <daurnimator> "a blank"?
10.49.08 #       <B4gder> thanks
10.49.12 #       <JdGordon> bah, plank
10.49.15 #       <scorche> t3chth1rt33n: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingSVN
10.49.22 #       <t3chth1rt33n> thanks...
10.49.47 #       <scorche> "1.	a capacious, flat-bottomed vessel, usually intended to be pushed or towed, for transporting freight or passengers; lighter."
10.50.08 #       <LinusN> t3chth1rt33n: or http://build.rockbox.org/
10.50.42 #       <JdGordon> B4gder: do you still have a contact at sandisk? (even if they wernt much help before)?
10.51.17 #       <B4gder> yeah, I do
10.51.23 #       <daurnimator> like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b6/CrushedStoneBarge.jpg/250px-CrushedStoneBarge.jpg
10.51.48 #       <t3chth1rt33n> ok...another question, what do i have to do to port out rockbox?
10.52.06 #       <B4gder> port out?
10.52.12 #       <t3chth1rt33n> to the psp
10.52.14 #       <JdGordon> do you think it would be worth trying once more to get info on how to talk to the mSD card.. explain that at least a few devs want to buy them, but dont see the point if we cant use it?
10.52.28 #       <B4gder> t3chth1rt33n: doesn't that run linux already?
10.52.30 #       * JdGordon stops beating the dead horse :'(
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10.52.50 #       <bluebrother> JdGordon: do we know how the card is connected?
10.52.50 #       <B4gder> JdGordon: totally pointless, they never answered any technical question
10.53.00 #       <scorche> t3chth1rt33n: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
10.53.07 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah...i think so, but the music player sucks
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10.53.26 #       * [IDC]Dragon just wants to say hi, after a while
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10.53.28 #       <scorche> if it already runs linux, then you have a decent chunk already done for you
10.53.39 #       <scorche> [IDC]Dragon: well, hey there =)
10.53.46 #       <JdGordon> bluebrother: iirc the only thing we know is which bit changes when its plugged in
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10.53.57 #       <scorche> any progress on bootbox?
10.54.05 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah, but i have no clue my way around C or C++ so, this is gona be really hard
10.54.15 #       <[IDC]Dragon> sniff, no, so many other stuff
10.54.19 #       <bluebrother> that's not too much :(
10.54.19 #       <scorche> t3chth1rt33n: well, then learn! ;)
10.54.25 #       <t3chth1rt33n> plus i need to make it an app, not a firmware
10.54.25 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah...really
10.54.33 #       <t3chth1rt33n> this is how i plan to leard
10.54.36 #       <t3chth1rt33n> *learn
10.54.44 #       <scorche> t3chth1rt33n: well, rockbox is a replacement firmware...not an application
10.54.50 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I need to rework the bootloader for my house, before that
10.54.56 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah...thats what i have to change
10.55.14 #       <t3chth1rt33n> have no clue how yet though, but ill figure it out
10.55.14 #       <B4gder> t3chth1rt33n: so build the simulator and run that on the psp
10.55.17 #       <linuxstb> scorche: The Rockbox UI sim is an application...
10.55.20 #       <bluebrother> t3chth1rt33n: it's not intended for that, and I don't think this is feasible at all
10.55.20 #       <B4gder> all you need is sdl
10.55.21 #       <[IDC]Dragon> (I'm coming closer to opensource my home control stuff)
10.55.35 #       <scorche> linuxstb: i was getting to that, but i was beaten ;)
10.55.37 #       <t3chth1rt33n> whats the UI sim?
10.55.49 #       <bluebrother> see the UiSimulator wiki page
10.55.55 #       <linuxstb> A version of Rockbox built to run as an application on your PC.
10.55.59 #       <bluebrother> it's main purpose is for debugging.
10.56.21 #       <t3chth1rt33n> cool...so what do i have to change as far as button controls and stuff?
10.56.22 #       <bluebrother> it replaces the device hardware specific stuff with calls to the OS
10.56.48 #       <t3chth1rt33n> what else do i have to change/modify?
10.57.15 #       * bluebrother doesn't understand why people want to port Rockbox to an application
10.57.29 #       <amiconn> hi [IDC]Dragon :)
10.57.33 #       * scorche is reminded of the windows CE guy
10.57.37 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: Because good media players are hard to find.
10.57.38 #       <t3chth1rt33n> have u tryed the psps music player?
10.57.55 #       <bluebrother> scorche: did he succeed in any way?
10.58.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> Hi Jens!
10.58.10 #       <bluebrother> linuxstb: I know why I prefer a dap for playing music ;-)
10.58.15 #       <scorche> bluebrother: i dont think he even made an effort beyond extolling the virtues of CE in here
10.58.17 #       <JdGordon> bluebrother: a few portable devices run sdl apps and have crap audio players.. gp2x people want it also
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10.58.35 #       <t3chth1rt33n> so...how do i do this?
10.58.40 #       <bluebrother> hmm... me doesn't own such a device.
10.58.41 #       <t3chth1rt33n> how do i get started?
10.58.43 #       <t3chth1rt33n> lol
10.58.47 #       <JdGordon> figure out how to cross compile sdl for you device
10.58.54 #       <t3chth1rt33n> ???
10.58.58 #       <bluebrother> no need for it, and no money for playing around ;-)
10.59.02 #       <JdGordon> once youve got that working come back for next step
10.59.15 #       <linuxstb> t3chth1rt33n: You should start by downloading the Rockbox source, building a UI simulator for a random device, and start playing...
10.59.16 #       <t3chth1rt33n> wtf r u talking about?
10.59.28 #       <bluebrother> maybe add step 0, be able compiling and running your own code on the device
10.59.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I can't join devcon 2007, I'm on holiday then (besides being rockbox-passive almost since last devcon)
10.59.37 #       <B4gder> t3chth1rt33n: please write proper english
10.59.50 #       <t3chth1rt33n> ok, sorry
11.00.27 #       <amiconn> [IDC]Dragon: Will you attend devcon?
11.00.47 #       <t3chth1rt33n> bluebrother: i want to start big...i dont like making my own stuff
11.00.57 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: I'm seeing all of my builtin filetypes (mp3, m3u, flac, etc) as ? icons (or rather the icon I've set to replace the ?)
11.00.58 #       <JdGordon> daurnimator: did you get anywhere with the zaurus and the sim?
11.01.07 #       <bluebrother> t3chth1rt33n: starting big is condemned to fail
11.01.09 #       <daurnimator> my zaurus broke
11.01.14 #       <scorche> amiconn: see up a few lines
11.01.15 #       <bluebrother> unless you have enough experience
11.01.15 #       <daurnimator> it... won't turn on
11.01.35 #       <t3chth1rt33n> true...but this is my goal i guess
11.01.35 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: see 3 lines above ;-)
11.01.44 #       <amiconn> :/
11.01.45 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: do you know if my last commit did this? or since when?
11.01.56 #       <bluebrother> and if you can't run your own code on the device you won't be able getting the sim to run on it too
11.02.21 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah, ok so i need to get the psp running my code
11.02.41 #       <[IDC]Dragon> amiconn: you guys are compensating, two Arnolds
11.03.37 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: It was somewhere between svn revision 13180 and 13190 I think. It worked fine yesterday, I got on as you and Amiconn were fixing things, downloaded shortly after you left, had the problem, left a message for you in the logs, slept, came back now, still have the problem with the current SVN.
11.03.41 #       <t3chth1rt33n> but the thing about that is i like to see other peoples work before I start my own...thats why I wanted to see RockBoxs code, then it just snowballed from there
11.03.42 #       <bluebrother> a simple hello world program should be enough.
11.04.01 #       <bluebrother> it would also ensure that your toolchain is working properly ;-)
11.04.05 #       <t3chth1rt33n> yeah...but i cant get any dev programs to work...lol
11.04.15 #       <t3chth1rt33n> i mean laugh out loud
11.04.22 #       <LinusN> :-)
11.04.39 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: ok ta, ill have a looksie
11.04.56 #       <B4gder> t3chth1rt33n: rockbox is only some 370000 lines of code, should keep you busy for a while if you want to read it ;-)
11.05.12 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: I can set them in the .icons file, but if I don't set any of the built in filetypes, all of them (or at least all of the files on my device that I know are built in types) use the ? icon. Menus seem fine though.
11.05.22 #       <t3chth1rt33n> I need a good tutorial on getting cygwin running?
11.05.34 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: And now that I think of it, plugins and themes are fine... =/
11.05.35 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: ok, yeah, PaulJam (?) mentioned it before
11.05.43 #       <LinusN> t3chth1rt33n: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex
11.05.46 #       <B4gder> t3chth1rt33n: you'll find almost everyting Rockbox-related documented in our wiki
11.05.47 #       <t3chth1rt33n> 8-0
11.05.49 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: It's just music, and m3us
11.06.05 #       <JdGordon> which are not in your .icons file probably?
11.07.07 #       <Llorean> Not in my icons, no
11.07.07 Quit    PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11.07.20 #       <Llorean> If I add them to the .icons file, I can make them display
11.08.36 #       <PaulJam_> JdGordon: it seems to happen to all inbuilt filetypes, that are not in the viewers.config
11.09.03 #       <Llorean> PaulJam_: Go to "Browse Plugins"
11.09.09 #       <Llorean> Do those have the plugin icon, or the ?
11.09.56 #       <t3chth1rt33n> ok...im going to go look into the wiki, download the sourcecode, and learn psp coding...good night!
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11.10.41 #       <LinusN> well, at least he has ambition...
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11.11.21 #       <PaulJam_> Llorean: they show up as system/questionmark if i remove the entry from the .icons
11.12.04 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11.12.54 #       <Llorean> Oh wow, I'm completely blind.
11.12.55 #       <JdGordon> Ah, i know the problem
11.13.02 #       * Llorean should be half ignored.
11.13.48 #       <Llorean> PaulJam_: I was using your .icons file, since I had overwritten your viewers icons (they're the right size for what I'm doing, and it was easier to recognize them and overwrite them than recognize the builtin bmp's purposes)
11.14.04 #       <Llorean> And I'm just completely blind to the fact that rock and cfg were in it, even though I looked for them. =/
11.16.13 #       <JdGordon> easy fix
11.16.13 #       * amiconn just uses the default icons, which work fine now
11.16.20 #       <amiconn> No .icons file
11.16.33 #       <JdGordon> no .icons == no problem :)
11.17.32 #       <JdGordon> fixed in svn
11.20.49 #       * [IDC]Dragon reads PSP
11.20.58 Quit    inversions (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11.20.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> I missed the first part of it
11.21.20 #       <[IDC]Dragon> is it "open", as in running own code?
11.23.14 #       <scorche> http://df38.dot5hosting.com/~remember/chris/
11.23.38 #       <Llorean> [IDC]Dragon: Yes, and no
11.23.53 #       * scorche points to the link above
11.24.03 #       <Llorean> [IDC]Dragon: Ever month or two someone figures out how to get code running on a slightly newer firmware version, and Sony releases a newer, more restrictive firmware.
11.24.27 #       <Llorean> If you run the original 1.5 firmware (or 1.0 in Japan) you're pretty much restriction free on what you can run on it.
11.24.38 #       <scorche> yeah...that one points to 1.5
11.25.10 #       <LinusN> how do they force the users to use the newer firmwares?
11.25.16 #       <Llorean> LinusN: New games require them.
11.25.20 #       <LinusN> i see
11.25.30 #       <Llorean> When a new firmware comes out, newer games start complaining if you're not running it.
11.25.38 #       <Llorean> So of course the community creates ways around this.
11.25.42 #       <bluebrother> "initial port of SDL" sounds like there is quite some work left
11.25.43 #       <Llorean> It's all a big, pointless war.
11.26.28 #       <Llorean> But Sony honestly seems to be lightening up (in a slightly related way). One of the big benefits of Homebrew is that you could run video at the full PSP resolution, rather than the 320x240 sony limited you to (so that their UMD disks were actually worth buying)
11.27.06 #       <Llorean> They recently updated to allow users to watch 720x480 H.264 movies, scaled to the PSP's screen (or native-PSP resolution ones), which kinda suggests to me that Sony's rethinking their strategy on it after 2 years.
11.27.16 #       <Llorean> Since the PS3 runs Linux, they might consider opening it up.
11.29.54 #       <PaulJam_> JdGordon: do the remote viewers icons use the .icons file from the main viewers icons? in other words, if i change the order of the viewers icons, do i have to provide the remote viewers icons with the same order
11.30.06 #       <JdGordon> yes
11.30.12 #       <JdGordon> and no easy way around that
11.30.18 #       <PaulJam_> ok
11.30.43 #       <Llorean> I don't think it's a large hindrance anyway
11.30.57 #       <JdGordon> ... because filetypes.c doesnt know which screen the icon is for...
11.31.15 #       * JdGordon back later
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11.32.16 #       <Sna[E]> hi
11.32.35 #       <Sna[E]> who do i aplly rockcalendar.patch
11.32.52 #       <bluebrother> you need to compile your own build
11.33.03 #       <Sna[E]> mm
11.33.07 #       <bluebrother> see the wiki, look for the SimpleGuideToCompiling
11.33.09 #       <Sna[E]> thats mean that?
11.33.25 #       <bluebrother> that means some work
11.33.41 #       <bluebrother> you apply a patch to the source code, then you need to recompile the source
11.33.54 #       <bluebrother> which requires you to setup a complete development environment
11.34.41 #       <Sna[E]> its sound hard
11.34.56 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Yeah, fixed, thanks. :)
11.35.13 #       <bluebrother> it isn't too hard if you have done such stuff before, but if you are a user without any programming experience it might be hard
11.35.32 #       <LinusN> then again, patchers are for developers, not users
11.35.36 #       <LinusN> patches
11.35.55 #       <bluebrother> right ... patches in our terms means source patches, not binary patches
11.36.00 #       <Sna[E]> i haved done it b4
11.36.22 #       <Sna[E]> i just want a rockcalendar.patch to my 340
11.36.37 #       <LinusN> i'm sure you do
11.36.52 #       <bluebrother> done "it" before means compiling from source?
11.37.10 #       <Sna[E]> i havent done.
11.37.23 #       <bluebrother> ah. ok.
11.37.51 Part    LinusN
11.38.03 #       <bluebrother> you might want to look around for an experimental build that includes the patch. But I don't think there is a recent one around.
11.38.44 #       <Sna[E]> i try n old version
11.38.49 #       <Sna[E]> but it didnt fit.
11.39.09 #       <bluebrother> you can't just try an older version. You need a build that ships the plugin
11.39.36 #       <bluebrother> but what exactly did you try? Using a binary plugin with a different build it was compiled for?
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11.39.50 #       <Sna[E]> no
11.40.06 #       <Sna[E]> i had n old rocokbox verion
11.40.17 #       <Sna[E]> so i copy the rockclander from her
11.40.40 #       <bluebrother> you can't just copy binary plugins. You'll get an "incompatible version" message
11.41.04 #       <Sna[E]> yep.
11.41.15 #       <Sna[E]> well im not a computer men.
11.41.33 #       <Sna[E]> so its kind of hard for me
11.41.54 #       <bluebrother> well, in that case you could only search for a build that ships the plugin.
11.42.10 #       <bluebrother> but as I already said, I don't think there is a recent one around. I might be wrong about this though.
11.42.23 #       <Sna[E]> ok
11.42.26 #       <Sna[E]> thanks
11.42.30 #       <bluebrother> search the "unsupported builds" in the forums, might have some information
11.42.34 #       <bluebrother> about this.
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12.18.05 Mode    "#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12.18.23 Part    Rift
12.18.44 #       <crop> WPS experts here? Is there an explanation about what wps lines really produce a line on the screen? E.g. the tag for the status bar doesn't (iirc). Are there other such tags?
12.19.33 Topic   "Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IrcGuidelines | Rockbox Devcon 2007 - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DevCon2007 | DevCon-West: Static Info - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DevConWest2007 Discussion - On the Dev-ML" by scorche (i=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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12.20.09 Mode    "#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12.20.13 #       <Llorean> crop: The only tags that should take up lines are ones that produce text, or ones that are a whole line (progress bar, peakmeters) I believe.
12.20.42 Quit    bagawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12.21.33 #       <pixelma> ooh another of scorche's famous long topics... ;)
12.21.42 #       <scorche> hush, you =P
12.21.48 #       <crop> Llorean: but an empty line also takes up a line. So it's not obvious.
12.21.53 #       <scorche> most of the topics have been mine lately...
12.23.47 #       <Llorean> crop: I think that's pretty obvious. Real text also takes up space.
12.24.03 #       <Llorean> crop: If you insert an empty line, it's assumed to be an intentional empty line, ie, spacer.
12.24.10 #       <Llorean> Remember, WPSes use line-based positioning.
12.24.38 #       <Llorean> The only lines that don't add lines are lines that are nothing but non-text/non-bar tags
12.26.52 #       <pondlife> ...If only the Rockbox fund contained hours as well as Euros....
12.26.58 #       <Llorean> Hahaha
12.27.15 #       <Llorean> They'd be flying out faster than they came in, if people could donate 'em. :)
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12.27.42 #       <pondlife> Well some people must have "spare time".   An alien concept to me sadly.
12.27.49 #       <B4gder> if poeple would donate a whole lot more, we could hire people to work for Rockbox! ;-)
12.28.07 #       <pondlife> lol
12.28.30 #       <Llorean> Ah, this is true.
12.28.35 #       <pondlife> I was looking at the new lure on the DevCon page.... but cash itself isn't the problem.
12.28.36 #       <Llorean> You can buy time, if you try hard enough
12.28.41 #       <B4gder> with the current fund i bet we can get a week from someone
12.29.05 #       <scorche> B4gder: what is it up to now?
12.29.07 #       <Llorean> The new lure is nice, but it's late enough in the game that prices have increased to match the lure. ;) Planning on it for next year might be nice though.
12.29.10 #       <pondlife> Hah, a week wouldn't even get the playback work off the ground...
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12.29.15 #       <B4gder> ~4000 USD iirc
12.29.15 Quit    Rick (Nick collision from services.)
12.29.20 #       <scorche> not bad..
12.29.29 #       <crop> Llorean: I still find it a bit confusing.
12.29.29 Nick    Gibbed is now known as Rick (i=rick@pool-71-119-160-247.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
12.29.52 #       <Llorean> crop: Any text, including newlines, will be treated as text, unless the ONLY thing on the line is a newline and a non-text tag.
12.30.16 #       <Llorean> If the tag generates text, or generates a "bar" (progress, peakmeter), these also generate lines.
12.30.59 #       <crop> Llorean: and images aren't considered text?
12.31.05 #       <pondlife> Time is worthless to those who have plenty to donate, but priceless to those who don't.  So the exchange rate is chaotic.
12.31.18 #       <Llorean> crop: An image isn't text...
12.31.29 #       <B4gder> pondlife: indeed one of life's ironies
12.31.48 #       <pondlife> Oh to be unemployed again... ;p
12.31.54 #       <B4gder> hahaha
12.31.55 #       * pondlife shouldn't make wishes like that
12.32.07 #       <scorche> pondlife: want to trade? ;)
12.32.11 #       <pondlife> But when I was last unemployed I hadn't heard of Rockbox.
12.32.18 #       <pondlife> scorche: Tempting.
12.32.30 #       <pondlife> In fact it probably didn't exist.
12.32.52 #       <pondlife> Did Rockbox exist before 2001?
12.33.00 #       <B4gder> no
12.33.12 #       <pondlife> Obviously not named Rockbox :)
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12.34.05 #       <B4gder> we started in dec 2001
12.34.22 #       <pondlife> I see that from the ML, but wondered if there had been much prior hacking.
12.34.50 #       <B4gder> it hadn't, there was some but that was only a few days before the mails started
12.35.11 #       <B4gder> afair
12.35.16 #       <pondlife> And it has been non-stop busy-ness ever since.  Awesome.
12.36.40 #       * B4gder recalls the devcon 2002 in linusn's appartment...
12.37.06 #       <preglow> hah
12.37.11 #       <pondlife> I thought DevCon was a "recent" thing.
12.37.12 #       <preglow> had plenty of "devcons" like that
12.37.22 #       <preglow> trying to do scene stuff :>
12.37.51 #       <B4gder> pondlife: well, it was more of a fun thing to call it devcon back then and it only recently became "real" devcons, yes
12.38.47 #       <pondlife> You mean real devcons are not fun??
12.38.58 #       <B4gder> correct, just hard work and sweat!
12.39.01 #       <B4gder> :-P
12.39.08 #       <pondlife> Thank goodness I can't make it then!!
12.39.22 #       <pondlife> I thought it would be all beer pizza and hacking.
12.39.37 #       <pondlife> Erm.  beer, pizza... not beer pizza
12.39.44 #       <crop> Llorean: I was always uncertain about what my wps would look like. In the end I got it right but the was no self confidence from the beginning on.
12.39.57 #       <crop> Llorean: I've modified the wiki page
12.40.19 #       <Llorean> crop: I've never found it particularly confusing, but then I used it pre-graphics.
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12.40.32 #       <B4gder> pondlife: it was more like the word "developer conference" was a bit of an overstatement when it was just us Swedens gathering one day
12.40.42 #       <B4gder> Swedes
12.40.50 #       <scorche> bork bork!
12.40.53 #       <pondlife> Hey, Swedes can be developers too, right?
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12.41.07 #       <B4gder> no, we can only make meatballs and say bork
12.41.15 #       <pondlife> Of course!
12.41.24 #       <Llorean> And form giant companies that sell constructible furniture?
12.41.36 #       <pondlife> And three people is surely enough for a conference... hence "conference call".
12.41.46 #       <B4gder> Llorean: they sell meatballs too you know ;-)
12.41.51 #       <pondlife> Or two... hence "conference pair"  (groan)
12.42.04 #       <Llorean> B4gder: I discovered that recently. They opened one in my town, so I decided to visit.
12.42.05 #       <pondlife> Constructible meatballs
12.42.12 #       <scorche> Llorean: apparently a place named H&M opened up around here recently too...described as a cheap swedish retailer of clothing
12.42.32 #       <pondlife> We have H&M... Mrs pondlife tried to take me there once.
12.42.44 #       <scorche> IKEA is the saviour of many future dorm-goes
12.42.44 #       <Llorean> B4gder: I learned an important lesson. Swedes are 5 feet / 150cm tall. Or at least, every chair in the store seemed built to that assumption.
12.42.51 #       <safetydan> Iteresting "fact" for the day. According to sloccount, Rockbox cost USD$16,000,000 to develop and took 36.04 developers 3.29 years
12.42.53 #       <B4gder> haha
12.42.55 #       <safetydan> interesting even
12.43.04 #       * B4gder is 6 feet 4
12.43.07 #       <pondlife> I want my money back :)
12.43.58 #       <Llorean> Maybe you guys are so tall, we just look shorter than we are in comparison then.
12.44.00 #       <Llorean> :)
12.44.09 #       <B4gder> *g*
12.44.30 #       <B4gder> "those guys over there are so short we export the kids furniture that way"
12.44.56 #       <pondlife> Perhaps they keep the good chairs and export the stunted ones
12.44.56 #       * scorche points to japan
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12.45.38 #       <Llorean> Seriously, I walked through the entire store thinking "I wish they made these in grownup sizes"
12.45.46 #       <pondlife> In 2004, Ikea (allegedly) gave all their employees MP3 players.... there, almost back on topic. Ref: http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2079345.ece
12.45.47 #       * safetydan used to live in a flat entirely furnished by Ikea
12.46.06 #       <preglow> many do
12.46.06 #       <pixelma> /join #ikea ;)
12.46.25 #       <Llorean> pondlife: It would've been neat if it was loaded with an Ikea themed Rockbox
12.46.30 #       <B4gder> it doesn't say which mp3 player it was
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12.46.33 #       <safetydan> Wasn't my choice, good ol' pre-furnished rental flats
12.46.33 #       <Llorean> Extra, extra Swedish.
12.46.41 #       <pondlife> Yes, maybe they can sell Rockbox worldwide
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12.46.47 #       <pondlife> Rockborks
12.47.20 #       <scorche> pondlife++
12.47.21 #       <JdGordon> there is a bork bork translation on FS btw...
12.47.39 #       <pondlife> Have you tried using it though?
12.47.53 #       * JdGordon doesnt speak bork!
12.47.57 #       <preglow> klingon translation, please
12.48.08 #       <safetydan> JdGordon: really? Now we just need a esperanto and a klingon translation
12.48.16 #       <JdGordon> we have esparonto
12.48.24 #       <markun> was just about to say that :)
12.48.29 #       <safetydan> well I'll be darned
12.48.34 #       <JdGordon> klignon could be done easily if there is a script like bork bork
12.49.19 #       <safetydan> Just need a klingon font. I have a vague recollection that the klingon characters actually made it in to the Unicode spec.
12.49.25 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6360
12.49.28 #       <markun> JdGordon: you mean a fake klingon translation?
12.49.38 #       <JdGordon> thats the one pixelma
12.49.55 #       <pondlife> Anyone know anything about this?... http://store.makezine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKMP3KIT
12.50.06 #       <pondlife> A DIY open-source MP3 player
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12.50.23 #       <JdGordon> markun: there is a real klingon?
12.50.33 #       <scorche> pondlife: i saw that, but is basically a simplified shuffle
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12.50.42 #       <Llorean> pondlife: That the CompactFlash based one?
12.50.50 #       <pondlife> Yes, I think so
12.51.01 #       <B4gder> Microchip PIC18F45j10 based
12.51.02 #       <pondlife> It was "open-source" that got me.
12.51.21 #       <markun> JdGordon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language
12.51.54 #       <markun> sometimes it is even claimed that there are more klingon speakers than esperanto speakers
12.51.54 #       <JdGordon> WTF? it got ISO?
12.52.05 #       <JdGordon> bunch of nerds!
12.52.20 #       <markun> JdGordon: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingona_lingvo
12.52.23 #       <markun> :)
12.52.27 #       <B4gder> I like it how the "here is the source code" points to a single C source file
12.52.41 #       <pondlife> Yep. KISS at its best
12.52.51 #       * preglow goes to have some qagh for lunch
12.53.11 #       <markun> I vote for a single C source file for rockbox as well, with a lot of ifdefs :)
12.53.19 #       <pondlife> Hehe
12.53.34 #       <pondlife> SVN fun indeed
12.53.41 #       <B4gder> http://www.walrus.com/~raphael/mp3/Daisy_mp3/daisy1.2_1.3Frozen.c
12.53.53 #       <B4gder> we can replace rockbox with that instead
12.54.06 #       <B4gder> see the last function, that's the best one
12.54.17 #       <Llorean> B4gder: Or offer it as "Rockbox Lite"
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12.54.26 #       <markun> :)
12.54.47 #       <markun> B4gder: what a rediculous easter egg :)
12.55.00 #       <B4gder> I agree
12.55.18 #       <pondlife> lolololol
12.55.33 #       <scorche> haha....oh wow...
12.55.48 #       <pondlife> We need a void king_of_france(char) in  playback.c
12.56.04 #       <pondlife> And now I want pie for lunch
12.56.11 #       <scorche> he would eat all of our pie though....
12.56.38 #       <[IDC]Dragon> those PIC projects are nice for learning how to code a minimalistic file system (/me thinks bootbox again :-)
12.56.39 #       <B4gder> it uses an mp3/wav decoder chip
12.56.53 #       <B4gder> VS1011
12.57.14 #       <markun> cheaters
12.57.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> very common, it took over the MAS market
12.57.44 #       <B4gder> the PIC is running at 40MHz
12.57.48 #       <[IDC]Dragon> since it's still avail, MAS isn't
12.57.51 #       <JdGordon> [IDC]Dragon: have you got something working for bootbox? so if you dont have time for it others can pick it up?
12.58.32 #       <[IDC]Dragon> not really. I have a stripped down code tree of Rockbox, which cut the bootbox size in half
12.58.45 #       <[IDC]Dragon> but I don't like that way any more
12.58.52 #       <preglow> well, it works now
12.58.53 #       <preglow> heh
12.59.03 #       <preglow> and we rather drastically need size cuts
12.59.25 #       <[IDC]Dragon> instead, I wanted to code new from scratch, with "codesize matters" written all over the place
12.59.28 #       <scorche> ...to make up for all the recent bloating? ;)
12.59.35 #       <pondlife> #ifdef HAVE_CONFIGURABLE_ICONS...?
12.59.46 #       <pondlife> ;)
12.59.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> rockbox has a "bloat rate" of 500 bytes per week, or so
13.00.14 #       <scorche> this has been a large week...
13.00.50 #       <pondlife> I'd like to see a graph of code size over the years.
13.00.51 #       <JdGordon> 500bytes is not bad per week... and pondlife there is far bigger wastes than icons
13.00.59 #       <pondlife> JdGordon: Just joking
13.01.07 #       <[IDC]Dragon> yes, a graph would be über-cool
13.01.09 #       <pondlife> I like the icon feature
13.01.29 #       <pondlife> [IDC]Dragon: Is it growing linearly, or better, or worse?
13.01.42 #       <[IDC]Dragon> dunno, see the graph
13.01.50 #       * scorche would like some weekly, monthly, and yearly links ;)
13.01.56 #       <[IDC]Dragon> bagder, are those values kept?
13.02.11 #       <B4gder> nope
13.02.12 #       * pondlife thinks that monthly builds would be more use than daily ones all round
13.02.28 #       <JdGordon> yearly is silly, but last week, fortnight and month would be nice to have
13.02.48 #       <B4gder> feel free to provide such services ;-)
13.03.20 #       <pondlife> I have HD space, but the most useless outbound speed.
13.03.21 #       <JdGordon> where is the raw data?
13.03.39 #       <B4gder> for what? the bin sizes?
13.04.00 #       <JdGordon> yeah, ah its linked
13.04.04 #       <pixelma> B4gder: didn't tucoz provide such a graph (or something like this)? But I bet it's way out-of-date...
13.04.25 #       <B4gder> he made the svnstat thing
13.04.33 #       <B4gder> but that was just a single-shot run
13.04.53 #       <pixelma> ah yes - that's what I remembered
13.05.15 #       <B4gder> http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/svn/
13.06.23 #       * scorche attempts to guess the large jumps
13.06.50 #       <B4gder> http://build.rockbox.org/dist/listsizes.cgi lists all tables with bin sizes
13.06.56 #       <pondlife> April 2006 was a big one
13.06.56 #       <B4gder> that currently exists
13.06.57 #       * JdGordon was thinking the same thing
13.07.10 #       <scorche> yeah...
13.07.29 #       <B4gder> codec imports
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13.07.47 #       <pondlife> So no core BIN increase.
13.08.06 #       <B4gder> the svn page is about source code, not bin size
13.08.07 #       <pondlife> lol ... http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/svn/dir_firmware_malloc.html
13.09.19 #       <JdGordon> B4gder: how often are the size logs deleted?
13.09.22 #       <linuxstb> Are the sizes the build system calculates the "real" (i.e. important wrt rombox etc) sizes?
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13.09.47 #       <B4gder> linuxstb: they are the "main" binary file's actual size as listed by unzip
13.10.08 #       <[IDC]Dragon> hey, I wrote 3.4% of Rockbox
13.10.32 #       <JdGordon> 0.8% here :)
13.10.57 #       * scorche guesses 0.003% for himself
13.10.59 #       <[IDC]Dragon> wth did dave do?
13.11.15 #       <B4gder> dave is linuxstb
13.11.17 #       <markun> import the codecs maybe? :)
13.11.20 #       <B4gder> kind of the codec importers ;-)
13.11.22 #       <B4gder> king
13.11.28 #       <[IDC]Dragon> cheater
13.11.33 #       <markun> for me it was only Tremor :)
13.11.33 #       <scorche> and doom
13.11.42 #       <JdGordon> so you guys owe me 1.2million bux :)
13.11.46 #       <JdGordon> no that cant be right
13.12.07 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13.12.09 #       <scorche> not near..
13.12.47 #       * B4gder cancels the payment then
13.12.47 #       <markun> jethead71 is jhMikeS right?
13.12.47 #       <B4gder> yes
13.12.47 #       <JdGordon> yeah, 100x off... 12800$
13.13.42 #       <markun> a now google will add another $2000 to our treasure chest
13.13.55 #       <scorche> provided they are successful
13.13.57 #       <linuxstb> So how many lines of code are our students required to produce?
13.14.00 #       <markun> scorche: no
13.14.22 #       <scorche> markun: well, provided mentors are successful i should say
13.14.23 #       <markun> we'll get it even if they are not successful
13.14.46 #       <scorche> if the mentors get horrible "reviews" then we do not get it
13.15.21 #       <markun> ah, I'll better do my best then
13.15.25 #       <pondlife> Who writes the reviews, the students?
13.15.33 #       <scorche> pondlife: yup
13.15.51 #       <markun> so far I'm getting along quite well with mine
13.15.54 #       <pondlife> Imagine if Real Life university was like that...
13.15.55 #       <scorche> the mentors write about the students, and the students write about the mentors
13.16.05 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: I don't believe there's a set number of lines, so much as whether they progress effectively.
13.16.05 #       <scorche> and B4gder gets to read them all ;)
13.16.18 #       <pondlife> and LinusN gets to rewrite them all ;)
13.16.37 #       <scorche> and in the darkness bind them...
13.16.53 #       <B4gder> I'll edit them all to mention me in favourable ways
13.17.00 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: I was joking about the "cost" of producing Rockbox ($16,000,000) and the number of current lines of code (558339 in Jan 2007)....
13.18.01 #       <linuxstb> Which I think means $4500 is 140 lines of code...
13.18.07 #       <pondlife> $28/line? That had better be a joke
13.18.39 #       <scorche> return;
13.18.44 #       <scorche> where can i collect my check?
13.18.44 #       <JdGordon> B4gder: Llorean: can I commit a fix so the scroll wheel only triggers one per click (like the OF?) instead of twice?
13.19.33 #       <JdGordon> pondlife: i was tought that IRL, coders only net about 5 lines/hour... so $28 doesnt sound too far wrong
13.19.53 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Oh, sorry, only half paying attention. :)
13.19.56 #       <B4gder> yeah, you need to take the whole engineering process into account
13.19.58 #       <pondlife> I suppose there are lots of other lines that have been deleted too.
13.20.10 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Yes.
13.20.23 #       <preglow> and in something as big as rockbox, you can't just think that one line written stays forever
13.20.27 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Since the scrollwheel has "positions", those positions should be 1 "click"
13.20.28 #       <pondlife> If I were to simplify playback.c and remove half of the code, would I owe Rockbox lots of $?
13.20.36 #       <JdGordon> I think it will make SCROLL|BUTTON_REPEAT impossible though
13.20.51 #       <JdGordon> pondlife: haha, thats why LOC is such a stupid metric
13.20.57 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Ah, well, um, then hold off until there's a better way, I think
13.21.04 #       <markun> JdGordon: a fix or a hack?
13.21.16 #       <Llorean> Sounds like a hack if it breaks REPEAT
13.21.23 #       <JdGordon> markun: you say potato, i say potato...
13.21.28 #       <JdGordon> wait.. that doesnt work on irc :p
13.21.40 #       <markun> ;)
13.22.27 #       <scorche> pot.a.to' pot.a'.to would work
13.22.36 #       <JdGordon> http://rafb.net/p/3JZOrt26.html is the diff
13.22.57 #       <pondlife> jdgordon:  No idea why but you put "manah manah" in my head.
13.23.06 #       <pondlife> 'tis witchcraft
13.23.17 #       <scorche> do doooooo do do do
13.23.46 #       <markun> scorche: I thought the idea was that the 'a' was pronounced differently, not the stress..
13.24.14 #       <scorche> markun: i attempted to come close
13.24.15 #       <markun> ah no, that's with tomato :)
13.24.52 #       * JdGordon is a dill... you cant test button values in the sim :p
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13.25.23 #       * scorche realizes he is only capable of outputting "noise" at this hour and so goes to sleep
13.26.58 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: yeah, it does break repeat..
13.27.05 #       * JdGordon gets back to the drawing board
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13.28.50 #       * JdGordon doesnt actually know if button_repeat is ever triggered anyway for the scroll wheel
13.29.05 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Isn't button-repeat used to keep it from going past the top/bottom of lists?
13.29.36 #       <JdGordon> yes
13.29.49 #       <JdGordon> but that doesnt work on the sansa does it?
13.30.05 #       <pondlife> That reminds me... H300 PLAY+UP/DOWN doesn't stop at the top or bottom... it probably should.
13.30.34 #       <JdGordon> yep... the sansa doesnt trigger repeat ont he wheel anyway
13.33.06 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Ah, =/
13.33.37 #       <JdGordon> ill commit this, then see about getting that working... unless there is a reason it doesnt trigger?
13.35.40 #       <PaulJam_> hmm, is there a list of which icon is used for which filetype with the default viewer icons?
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13.36.31 #       <JdGordon> viewers.config
13.37.00 #       <PaulJam_> thanks
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13.38.44 #       <JdGordon> btn = btn&(~(BUTTON_SCROLL_UP|BUTTON_SCROLL_DOWN)); will set those 2 bits to 0 and leave the others right?
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13.46.42 #       <pondlife> JdGordon: Yes, but btn &= ~(BUTTON_SCROLL_UP|BUTTON_SCROLL_DOWN); is shorter
13.47.18 #       <JdGordon> ok
13.47.38 #       <linuxstb> Is anyone apart from bluebrother against Nico_P committing his WPS line-height patch? (FS #7033)
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13.48.34 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Amiconn seemed to have some doubts about its usefulness too, I believe.
13.48.44 #       <pondlife> No objection here, I think it's useful.
13.49.11 #       <linuxstb> As viewports will still be line-based, I don't see the conflict...
13.49.17 #       <PaulJam_> JdGordon: in the viewes.config, why is the 10 in the line "wav,viewers/wavview,10" ? wav uses a builtin icon.
13.49.55 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Nico_P did say it would be a minor change to add a "Justify top" and "Justify bottom" option to it, instead of just centering, as well.
13.49.56 #       <JdGordon> amiconn(?) said that wav was meant to have a seperate icon for archos
13.50.19 #       <PaulJam_> ok, thanks
13.50.50 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: I'm not sure I can think of a need for that though...
13.51.11 #       <JdGordon> well thats odd... my commit didnt touch the sansa bin size, but afffected the mini's!
13.51.20 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Someone did complain that visual styles may assume that text lines are justified to the bottom of something (a line/field)
13.51.26 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: I personally don't see a use for it, though.
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13.52.10 #       <JdGordon> imo if the patch goes in, and its no big deal to add, then the justify options should be added also
13.52.39 #       <Llorean> Well, top-justify is just not doing the centering it currently does.
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13.54.39 #       <pixelma> why does it matter if you already use a wrong height for the font how it is justified?
13.54.51 #       <Llorean> pixelma: You're seeing it as a "fix" again.
13.54.55 #       <crop> I think the line height tag would be useful. But it should not center lines by default IMHO. Centering should be an extra option.
13.55.15 #       <Llorean> pixelma: WPSes could very easily be designed to be font-independent, instead simply saying "Use a font 12px or less"
13.55.34 #       <crop> Text should be "typeset" on the base line, the font is specially designed for it
13.56.03 #       <Llorean> crop: For most WPSes, centering is more appropriate.
13.56.30 #       <Llorean> Or at least, for most WPSes where multiple fonts could work effective (as in, fonts where it's a style choice rather than a 'fix')
13.58.07 #       <PaulJam_> btw, it would be nice, if all fonts would include theyr height in the filename.
13.58.32 #       <Llorean> I'd personally prefer it if the filenames started with the height. :)
13.59.19 #       <pixelma> Llorean: no - just couldn't imagine that it matters if the line is a few pixels up or down, especially for wps's the will use a line height tag. For heavily designed wps the author will ponder using this one font he/she chose anyways (that's how I'd imagine)
14.01.04 #       <Llorean> pixelma: Well, if you're substituting a font that's half the size of the usual one, it can make a difference in the overall appearance, though I suppose that you shouldn't be doing that often.
14.02.54 #       <Llorean> But I'd settle for just "centered"
14.03.11 #       <crop> Llorean: I don't know what "all" or "most" WPS's look like. But the natural typesetting for a text is aligned to its font's base line. This is like swwitching font size in Word.
14.03.30 #       <pixelma> Llorean:  it'll look differently. But as I said I just couldn't imagine that it'll be really important to those wps
14.03.39 #       <Llorean> pixelma: Yeah.
14.03.48 #       <Llorean> crop: Yes, and that's for documents, not graphical layouts.
14.04.24 #       <linuxstb> crop: I think you're over-estimating fonts in Rockbox.  IIUC, a glyph is just a fixed-height bitmap in Rockbox, so is rendered relative to the top of that bitmap.
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14.05.11 #       <PaulJam_> hmm, the font win_crox6hbo seems to be broken (at least in the h300 sim)
14.05.28 #       <Llorean> And the most recent version of the patch centers the line instead of rendering from the top of the line, since in the test files that looks a good deal better (text that's supposed to be "halfway down the page" looks like it is, instead of being off by an apparent half line)
14.05.35 #       <JdGordon> PaulJam_: yeah, has been for ages
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14.06.37 #       <crop> I'm not sure. It depends on what you consider lines to be. If you think of them as of stripes or banners where you "paint" the text then centering would be natural. If OTOH you consider them as lines where you write the text (as in school) then the base line should be used.
14.06.51 #       <Llorean> crop: And I consider them stripes or banners.
14.06.56 #       <Llorean> crop: Look at how they scroll.
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14.07.05 #       <linuxstb> Rockbox considers them stripes/banners...
14.07.33 #       <crop> linuxstb: who stated that and when? :-)
14.07.41 #       <linuxstb> The code states that...
14.07.58 #       <linuxstb> I'm just describing how fonts are rendered in Rockbox.
14.08.22 #       <JdGordon> crop: well, rockbox can only display 1 font per line (and 2 fonts per screen) anyway, so it doesnt really matter..
14.09.46 #       <amiconn> whoa
14.10.17 #       <amiconn> Those stats say I wrote 10.4% of rockbox...
14.10.47 #       <Llorean> crop: You'll notice a lot of WPSes follow one of two designs: Centered text, basically banners for each tag, or "Fields", boxes (using scroll margins) that again are spaced and essentially very limited width text banners.
14.10.54 #       <Llorean> crop: It's not a traditional "document" style display
14.11.15 #       * [IDC]Dragon congratulates amiconn \o/
14.11.32 #       * linuxstb wonders what his real contribution is
14.11.38 #       <B4gder> haha
14.11.49 #       <Llorean> Where do these percentages come from, and what's the minimum value?
14.12.11 #       <B4gder> 'statsvn' checks every revision and counts lines
14.12.27 #       <B4gder> I think
14.12.36 #       <crop> linuxstb: I think the code now aligns to the top, not center
14.13.00 #       <[IDC]Dragon> and amiconn actually wrote that 10.4% code, didn't import it
14.13.05 #       <Llorean> crop: Rockbox aligns to the top, but since line-height matches font-height, it's the same as if it were center or bottom.
14.13.13 #       <[IDC]Dragon> so he should be #1
14.14.02 #       <crop> Llorean: yes, but if we'd have changed the value of line height and wouldn't otherwise touch the code it would align to the top.
14.14.18 #       <JdGordon> [IDC]Dragon: no, he committed it... doesnt mean he wrote it :p
14.14.39 #       <crop> I think it's in gwps-common.c, the line with "ypos = (line * string_height) + display->getymargin();"
14.14.50 #       <JdGordon> and I should be higher... Linus got the point for my actions patch :'(
14.14.52 #       <Llorean> crop: Yes, but "the code currently does it" doesn't seem a very good reason to do it.
14.15.01 #       <Llorean> crop: The code currently does it, because currently no attempt at aligning is necessary.
14.15.27 #       <linuxstb> crop: We're discussing a new "line-height" patch which allows a line-height to be set which is different to the font height.  Hence the new need for justification.
14.15.28 #       <Llorean> Right now it doesn't actually "align to top", it just draws the text in the reserved space. No attempt is made for alignment, it's just the simplest drawing method.
14.15.55 #       <linuxstb> Or rather, alignment.
14.16.38 #       <Llorean> B4
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14.17.35 #       <crop> linuxstb: yes. I was referring to your phrase "the code does it". I thought you were speaking about the current RB code, not about the patched code.
14.18.18 #       <crop> But in the tag, we should have an option for top/center/bottom alignment
14.18.29 #       <Llorean> B4gder: Are there certain conditions for showing up on the svnstats page or does it just not like me? (My changes could all have been under ignorable circumstances, for example)
14.18.50 #       <crop> linuxstb: sorry, it was "the code states that"
14.19.08 #       <pixelma> Llorean: I think the table is just too old
14.19.08 #       <B4gder> Llorean: I don't know, and those stats were generated back in.. was it january?
14.19.22 #       <pixelma> (or stats)
14.19.25 #       <Llorean> B4gder: Ah, okay then. Nevermind.
14.19.31 #       <linuxstb> crop: I was talking about the current code.
14.19.40 #       <Llorean> B4gder: I was looking to be the minimum contributor, but I did my minimal change after that. :)
14.20.09 #       <B4gder> http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/svn/user_flanz.html
14.20.15 #       <B4gder> beat that! ;-)
14.21.13 #       <Llorean> B4gder: Yeah, actually I think I'd have about 6
14.21.21 #       * Llorean can't even come first at coming last.
14.21.31 #       <crop> linuxstb: then I think we have top alignment now
14.21.45 #       <Llorean> crop: We don't have *any* alignment now.
14.21.51 #       <Llorean> Lines are the exact same height as the font.
14.23.00 #       <crop> Llorean: yes, you're right. But (see above) if we'd changed the string_height we'd have top alignment.
14.23.26 #       <Llorean> crop: Only if we didn't make an attempt to choose an alignment.
14.24.02 #       <Llorean> That's what we've been saying, once you add arbitrary line heights, then someone has to choose the alignment.
14.24.22 #       <Llorean> The current design suggest "center" is the right one if it's not user configurable
14.24.27 #       <Llorean> At least in my opinion "center" is right
14.25.43 #       <JdGordon> bottom of right also
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14.26.09 #       <crop> Llorean: exactly. I was trying to understand what lines are considered to be in RB now. linuxstb said that the code states that the lines are centered. And I'm saying the the code-wise they are rather top aligned.
14.26.22 #       <Llorean> crop: Linuxstb never said lines were centered
14.26.28 #       <Llorean> crop: He said they're treated like banners.
14.26.43 #       <crop> Anyway, with the patch we'll have all options
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14.26.58 #       <crop> Banners were associated with centering
14.27.09 #       <crop> ...in our talk
14.27.16 #       <Llorean> crop: You associated them, only in the sense that "If the paradigm is banners, centering makes sense"
14.27.24 #       <Llorean> You never said that banners had to be centered.
14.27.35 #       <Llorean> At least I didn't get that from it.
14.27.52 #       <linuxstb> But anyway, I think we all understand each other now...
14.28.01 #       <Llorean> Yeah, it's clear, I think, now.
14.28.05 #       <Llorean> At least, what happens, what could happen.
14.28.06 #       <crop> Ok, this discussion is leading to nowhere. I propose to close it and to commit the patch instead.
14.28.47 #       <crop> We only have to agree on the default alignment :-)))
14.28.48 #       <Llorean> crop: Well, the current patch *just* centers lines.
14.29.06 #       <crop> Llorean: then it's not ready yet IMHO
14.29.20 #       <Llorean> And IMHO it's fine.
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14.29.30 #       <Llorean> But an option could be added, with minimal work.
14.29.37 #       <Llorean> At least according to the author
14.30.17 #       <crop> Llorean: yes. %lh|height|[t/c/b|]. Right? Or what was the tag?
14.31.31 #       <Llorean> %lh can't be used.
14.31.39 #       <Llorean> It's the tag for the virtual disk LED apparently
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14.32.14 #       <crop> Ok, another tag but same general syntax
14.33.04 #       <Llorean> Assuming t/c/b is decided to be worth adding to it.
14.34.43 #       <crop> I thought that was agreed upon, no?
14.35.22 #       <Llorean> I don't think it's necessary.
14.35.34 #       <Llorean> I think it might be nice, but I'm not really sure if it's nice enough to matter.
14.36.37 #       <Llorean> Viewports are meant for very specific positioning, the LH patch could, in my opinion, just untie "line height" from "font height" and leave anything beyond that to what viewports chooses as its domain.
14.36.57 #       <crop> I don't change and play with WPS's much. I only care about purity and "fuctional completeness" :-)
14.37.08 #       <crop> *functional
14.37.21 #       <B4gder> we're not generally much for "completeness"
14.37.24 #       <Llorean> In terms of functional completeness, the line height patch is entirely unnecessary. Its functionality can be duplicated with what's planned for viewports.
14.37.49 #       <Llorean> But line-height is a much more elegant solution for some things, and does offer some additional flexibility at a really minimal cost.
14.38.14 #       <B4gder> I think we could start with it without alignment and see how it works out
14.38.25 #       <Llorean> B4gder: It looks quite bad top-aligned, imho.
14.38.28 #       <B4gder> I mean without option, just use center
14.38.30 #       * Llorean saw the early patch.
14.38.43 #       <linuxstb> I agree with that.
14.38.46 #       <Llorean> Center works quite nicely though, I think.
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14.40.58 #       <crop> Apart from all the arguments: it would be fun for Nico_P to implement and would make his rating jump very high :-)
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14.42.02 #       <Llorean> crop: I think Nico_P's rating is going to be as high as it needs, there's a very good chance he'll be responsible for us to having Album Art by the end of summer.
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14.47.55 #       <JdGordon> scorche: why do you have 3 recorders?
14.52.33 #       <bluebrother> double-backup? ;-)
14.52.48 #       <B4gder> lots of paper that need weights?
14.53.07 #       <B4gder> and doors to stop
14.53.12 #       <JdGordon> linuxstb: oh, I tried opennig elephants dream on my sansa and it starts to open, screen goes blank, then closes straight away?
14.53.13 #       <bluebrother> hmm, then I should get a recorder
14.54.33 #       <JdGordon> If my stupid car radio had aux in I'd get one and a nice big hard disk for it
14.56.02 #       <B4gder> no cassette either then?
14.56.11 #       <JdGordon> nup
14.56.20 #       <JdGordon> have to use fm transmitter which sounds horrible
14.56.23 #       <bluebrother> hack an aux in :)
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14.56.39 #       <JdGordon> closest it has is phone-in, which I assume is mono
14.56.55 #       <bluebrother> phone-in?
14.57.13 #       <bluebrother> ah, scrap that.
14.57.38 #       <JdGordon> as in... mobile phone handsfree
14.58.05 #       <bluebrother> yeah, noticed that myself shortly after ;-)
14.58.20 #       <bluebrother> doing three things at once isn't always a good idea.
14.58.30 #       * bluebrother wants a second monitor on this machine
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14.59.56 #       * B4gder currently runs some fancy linux desktop thing over two screens
15.00.03 #       <B4gder> with 3d rotation and stuff
15.00.13 #       <B4gder> totally insane waste
15.00.40 #       <bluebrother> the second screen or the 3d stuff?
15.00.46 #       <B4gder> the 3d stuff
15.00.57 #       <B4gder> two screens is pretty neat
15.00.59 #       <bluebrother> yeah ... but it looks really nice.
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15.01.08 #       <B4gder> at least when you're stuck with loress screens
15.01.16 #       <Llorean> Two screens has proved pretty useful to me a few times.
15.01.30 Quit    XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15.01.36 #       <bluebrother> me too ... quite useful for coding.
15.01.42 #       <B4gder> I have this "shaky" effect on windows when dragged too
15.01.47 #       <B4gder> very useful
15.01.49 #       <B4gder> :-P
15.01.51 #       <bluebrother> and for LaTeX too. One screen for preview and another for coding
15.02.06 #       <B4gder> everything's like jello on my desktop
15.02.10 #       * JdGordon wants two screens back
15.02.32 #       <JdGordon> bluebrother: what ever happened with the cleaning up the rocks folder patch?
15.02.40 #       <B4gder> in fact, my current code is rather shaky too...
15.02.52 #       <bluebrother> I saw xfree with 16 screens on a linux expo ... quite impressing. You get an idea what xeyes is good for :)
15.03.07 Quit    brun0_ (Remote closed the connection)
15.03.17 #       <B4gder> haha
15.03.25 #       <bluebrother> JdGordon: still on my todo, but no time for the next 3 weeks. Presentation in less than 2 weeks and I need more numbers until then ...
15.03.38 #       <bluebrother> I'm praying my PCB will work when it arrives tomorrow
15.12.10 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15.12.30 #       <elinenbe_> did anyone order the Gigabeat Fs from Office Depot?
15.12.49 #       <perldiver> yes
15.12.57 #       <Llorean> elinenbe_: Yes, by way of an affiliate website.
15.13.14 #       <perldiver> elinenbe ups tracking number shows today's delivery
15.15.26 #       <Llorean> I expect to have a package in about 5-6 hours.
15.15.33 #       <Llorean> Though I don't know what I'll find in it.
15.15.59 #       <Llorean> They told me they were out of stock and had to cancel my order. And then they shipped it.
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15.16.32 #       <perldiver> im quite suprised they're shipping them in champaign color
15.16.52 #       <Llorean> perldiver: The one I ordered claimed silver.
15.17.20 #       <perldiver> people on fatwallet started to recieve theirs
15.17.29 #       <perldiver> and its champaign
15.17.37 #       <perldiver> which is strange
15.18.12 #       <perldiver> i wanted a champaign one though
15.18.15 #       <Llorean> Well, they seem to have had inventory issues.
15.18.37 #       <Llorean> Seeing as they were "out of stock" on Wed, and still showed in-stock Thurs on some of their websites.
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15.19.27 #       <perldiver> if anyone still wants one, fatwallet people got extras they're willing to sell
15.19.58 #       * JdGordon wishes he had the cash for one :')
15.20.01 #       <JdGordon> :'( even
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15.21.00 #       <JdGordon> Llorean: you put up a request for a 2nd quickscreen? how about customizable one?
15.21.03 #       * Llorean will settle for champaign colored, it's more or less a gift for his mom.
15.21.22 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: When did I do that?
15.21.32 #       <JdGordon> wasnt it you?
15.21.42 #       <Llorean> I may have a long time ago..
15.22.14 #       <JdGordon> 5622
15.22.23 #       <JdGordon> ok, so 10 months ago :D
15.22.37 #       * JdGordon going through tracker looking for something to code
15.22.55 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: Ah, that was more or less a unification of features idea.
15.23.15 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: The Recorders have a second quickscreen, having F1, F2, and F3 buttons.
15.23.33 #       <Llorean> The idea was A) to allow access to this screen on any quickscreen target, and B) to reconsider what's on it,.
15.24.20 #       <roolku> perldiver: has anyone put rockbox on it yet? Just in case it is something like the outpost batch of h120
15.24.29 #       <JdGordon> I personally hate the options in the quickscreen :p and now with the way settings are done I tihnk it should be fairly trivial to make it possible for any setting to be on the quickscreen
15.24.50 #       <perldiver> roolku yes, no problems, people enjoying them
15.25.04 #       <Llorean> perldiver: Any clue the serial number range of Gigabeat Fs?
15.25.10 #       <perldiver> Llorean what makes it strange that champaign was never a US color
15.25.11 #       * roolku wants the quickscreen like it used to be - without explicit enter and exit button presses
15.25.15 #       <JdGordon> does that sound like an idea worth playing with?
15.25.35 #       <roolku> similar to how the pitch screen is done now
15.25.58 #       * linuxstb has forgotten how it used to work
15.26.08 #       <Llorean> perldiver: Maybe it was, but Office Depot got all of them, and forgot to sell them. :-P
15.26.12 #       <perldiver> Llorean nope, havent seen them mentioned anywhere
15.26.23 #       <linuxstb> roolku: Did pressing the button show the quick screen, and then releasing that same button exit it?
15.26.25 #       <perldiver> Llorean ha
15.26.32 #       <roolku> linuxstb: yes
15.26.41 #       <linuxstb> roolku: That gets my vote too...
15.26.46 #       <roolku> linuxstb: and while holding it you could adjust the settings
15.27.00 #       <linuxstb> Obviously... :)
15.27.00 #       <Llorean> perldiver: According to the page, my incoming one's serial number starts with a Y, my current one starts with a 6, so I'm wondering if what I'm getting is really an F40.
15.27.05 #       <roolku> :)
15.27.21 #       <Llorean> roolku: That doesn't work well on several of our SWCodec players
15.27.27 #       <Llorean> roolku: Which player were you referring to?
15.27.35 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: Which ones won't it work on?
15.27.39 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: H100?
15.27.45 #       <Llorean> Only the play button can be combined with other buttons
15.27.54 #       <Llorean> H300 has the same restriction, I believe
15.27.58 #       <perldiver> Llorean yes, thats an US number for F40, my F20 has 5 and F60 has 7
15.27.58 #       <roolku> depending on target (h120 comes to mind) this required some clever state machine
15.28.09 #       <Llorean> And if I recall the X5 has only two buttons (maybe) that can be combined? (Could very easily have that one wrong.
15.28.14 #       <perldiver> i dont know what Y us
15.28.15 #       <perldiver> is
15.28.18 #       <linuxstb> I thought I remember it working on the h1x0 in the past...
15.28.47 #       <roolku> yes, it works on the h120 - you just have to be careful about your actions
15.28.50 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: On the h100 most of the buttons can't be combined, so if it did, there was something clever doing it.
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15.29.08 #       <Llorean> roolku: How, holding down Menu conflicts with pressing other buttons.
15.29.13 #       <perldiver> im missing an F10 though hehe
15.29.17 #       <roolku> I think amiconn figured it out and then Kevin couldn't replicate it when he did the multi screen api
15.29.33 #       <linuxstb> Ah, so it was the multi-screen api that broke it?
15.29.37 #       <Llorean> roolku: Or is it a case of long-press takes you in, and release takes you out, and since you press other buttons, release doesn't trigger?
15.30.07 #       <Llorean> Of course, that would assume that Menu is a lower value than the stick.
15.30.15 #       <roolku> yes, and then it gor even worse with the action code - now you need to press a button even to enter it
15.30.35 #       <Llorean> perldiver: I'm guessing those numbers are mostly consistent then. Office Depot did *not* ship my order the day after I ordered it, despite guaranteed next day shipping.
15.30.51 #       <roolku> after the multi-screen api, at least you could adjust while holding the button
15.30.56 #       <Llorean> perldiver: When I called them the day after that, when it still hadn't shipped, their phone person told me they were out of them, and would never be receiving 'em again, and cancelled my order for me.
15.31.04 #       <Llorean> perldiver: Then I got a shipping confirmation email 5 hours later.
15.31.09 #       <roolku> even though you needed an explicit press to exit
15.31.09 #       * Llorean has no idea what they've shipped him
15.31.28 #       <roolku> now it is enter/release - adjust - enter/release
15.31.33 #       <perldiver> Llorean did you order the paper clips too? :P
15.31.47 #       <perldiver> cause they shipped them seperately
15.31.52 #       <Llorean> perldiver: Paper clips?
15.31.57 #       <perldiver> separately*
15.32.09 #       <perldiver> yes, to get an 15% discount
15.32.13 #       <Llorean> Ah, no.
15.32.20 #       <Llorean> The site I ordered from didn't mention such a thing.
15.32.30 #       <perldiver> hmm than it must be the player
15.32.34 #       * linuxstb wonders how long "Global Priority Mail" from the US Postal Service takes between the US and the UK.
15.32.36 #       <Llorean> Well they charged me the $99
15.32.40 #       <Llorean> So I *hope* it's the player
15.32.41 #       * amiconn wonders what roolku was referring to...
15.34.06 #       <roolku> let me see if I can find the commit
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15.42.03 #       <amiconn> roolku: [15:29:33] <roolku> I think amiconn figured it out and then Kevin couldn't replicate it when he did the multi screen api <== what is this referring to?
15.42.55 #       <linuxstb> The old quick-screen behaviour where you pressed a button to enter, and released the same button to leave.
15.43.13 #       <amiconn> Quickscreens used to be usable in 2 ways
15.44.01 #       <amiconn> (1) press quickscreen button to enter. Select option(s) with left/down/right. Press quickscreen button again to leave
15.44.33 #       <amiconn> (2) press *and hold* quickscreen button. While holding, set options with left/down/right. Release quickscreen button to leave
15.45.17 #       <amiconn> (2) Is the real quick way, but it only works on targets where the quickscreen button and the directions used for options are detectable at the same time
15.45.46 #       <amiconn> This is the main reason why there is no option associated with the Up button in the quickscreen, btw
15.46.02 #       <bluebrother> (2) does not work on h100. It seems to can hang the player :o
15.46.12 #       <linuxstb> Are we remembering correctly that 2) used to work on the h100?
15.47.01 #       <amiconn> (2) cannot work on irivers and iaudios
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15.47.48 #       <bluebrother> hmm. Press Menu + before the quick menu comes up left. Screen hangs. Shutdown on long stop still works though ...
15.47.59 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: I don't remember that (2) ever did, at least for me.
15.49.22 #       <amiconn> Llorean: (2) *cannot* work on iriver, due to hardware constraints
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15.50.23 #       <Llorean> amiconn: That's what I said, but someone claimed there had once been some clever solution to that.
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15.52.49 #       <PaulJam_> JdGordon: i have a strange behaviour with the icons for music files: all music files get the icon i specified for .mp3 in the .icons file even if i specify a different icon for them (tested with wav,flac,m4a,mpc)
15.53.00 #       <roolku> amiconn: I remember vaguely that it was you who did the quickscreen on the h120, but looking at the log it was christy r6910 (unless you/someone fixed it later)
15.53.22 #       <Llorean> PaulJam_: I noticed that too, actually, I'd forgotten to bring it up
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15.55.00 #       <roolku> I swear (2) used to work on h120, because the mode button has a lower priority then the up/down and you can detect the BUTTON_MODE to BUTTON_UP/LEFT/RIGHT/DOWN transition
15.55.50 #       <JdGordon> PaulJam_: hmm... this shouldnt happen :p
15.56.07 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: But it does.
15.56.10 #       <roolku> maybe I mis-remember amiconn having anything to do with it, but it definitly worked
15.57.03 #       <PaulJam_> JdGordon: btw. it seems as if it is still not possible to pecify an icon to a filetype that is not supported by rockbox (even though i'm not sure if this would make sense)
15.57.19 #       <JdGordon> correct, you cant
15.57.28 #       <Llorean> So the filetype has to have a viewer associated?
15.57.46 #       <JdGordon> yeah, or built in
15.57.51 #       <Llorean> Yeah, that's what I meant.
15.59.13 #       <JdGordon> bugger... I know the problem.. I was wrong about icons_init not needing filetypes_init to be run
15.59.16 #       * JdGordon fixes
16.00.00 #       <roolku> amiconn: look at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20050629 where you discussed the issue with cassandra. She confirms that the quickscreen works at 10:08
16.04.46 #       <Febs> I propose to make the following changes to the installation instructions in the manual:
16.05.12 #       <Febs> 1.  Move the description of the 3 types of builds from section 2.2.2 to the introduction in section 2.2.3 so that section 2.2.2 is more streamlined and easier to follow.
16.05.12 #       <JdGordon> PaulJam_: Llorean: hmm... maybe it isnt such a simple fix
16.05.24 Quit    PaulJam__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16.05.50 #       <Febs> 2.  Create a separate section 2.2.4 with instructions for downloading extras.  Currently, this is the fonts package, but may include themes depending on the outcome of the discussion currently being held on the mailing list.
16.06.06 #       <Llorean> Febs: Fonts, and the Doom Wads can be mentioned in 2.2.4
16.06.26 #       <Llorean> Febs: But how would moving them to 2.2.3 make things easier, unless we're just going to have 2.2.2 arbitrarily tell them to use the current build?
16.06.33 #       <Llorean> "them" being the build descriptions
16.08.21 #       <Febs> Llorean: for one, on platforms that have not had a formal release, the instructions could just read "Download a current build," with "current build" being link to the appropriate page.
16.08.47 #       <Llorean> Febs: I agree, but what about for the few targets that do have a formal release?
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16.09.40 #       <Llorean> I suppose there's not *really* a need to mention it there, honestly
16.09.48 #       <Febs> Those instructions could say:  "Download the latest release or a current build."
16.10.21 #       <Llorean> Actually...
16.10.33 #       <Llorean> We shouldn't mention the Release in the manual at all.
16.10.54 #       <Llorean> There is a version of the manual for the release (sorta), and because of the huge discrepancy between features offered, there's no real reason to.
16.11.06 #       <Llorean> A release-edition of the manual could go with 3.0 if/when it happens, anyway.
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16.12.08 #       <Febs> Good point.  The last "release edition" manual was for 2.4, not 2.5, but the fact remains that this manual relates to the current build, not the 2.5 release.
16.13.12 #       <XavierGr> quickscreen just worked for me on both H100 and H300
16.13.45 #       <XavierGr> ah but didn't try to hold the button
16.13.56 #       <XavierGr> but as amiconn said it shouldn't work on H100
16.14.17 #       <roolku> XavierGr: read my justification why it did work
16.15.20 #       <XavierGr> roolku: to tell you the truth I never really used quick screen that way (holding the mode button)
16.15.26 #       <roolku> if you still don't believe it, build revision 6910 and try :)
16.15.43 #       <XavierGr> but right now it only works like (1)
16.15.49 #       <roolku> yeah, I know. Nobody seems to :(
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16.16.03 #       <Llorean> roolku: You are free to fix it, you know
16.16.26 #       <XavierGr> well I tried with latest build and (2) doesn't work, but I never knew it worked that way too
16.17.08 #       <XavierGr> the same applies with H300 (which the mode button is independent from the directional ones)
16.17.08 #       <linuxstb> roolku: I believed you :)
16.17.21 #       <roolku> linuxstb: :)
16.17.42 #       <linuxstb> Rockbox can always achieve the impossible...
16.18.01 #       <XavierGr> indeed :D
16.18.03 #       <roolku> yep.
16.18.10 #       <Hammer89> is the mpegplayer plugin supposed to automatically start the next mpeg file in a folder?
16.18.10 #       <Llorean> Well, as long as you watch for transitions without releases in between, you could manage something like that.
16.18.16 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: No.
16.18.24 #       <Hammer89> okay, thanks :)
16.18.50 #       <Hammer89> will that be implemented in future versions?
16.18.59 #       * linuxstb is reminded of the quote "ALGOL 60 was a great improvement on its successors"
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16.19.07 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: If someone implements it, yes.
16.19.19 #       <Hammer89> okay :)
16.19.22 #       <Llorean> Hammer89: Remember: Open source project, volunteers, no solid plans.
16.19.28 #       <Hammer89> I know ;)
16.19.37 #       <Llorean> But basic playlisting support of some sort seems a likely feature for *someone* to implement.
16.19.46 #       <Hammer89> definitely
16.19.51 #       * Llorean has already stated his preferred 'next feature' for it.
16.20.57 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: A resume feature would mean remembering the entire state of the decoder, which isn't trivial. especially as audio is decoded a few seconds in advance of video.  I think seeking would be simpler.
16.21.38 #       <linuxstb> Especially as jhMikeS seems to have rewritten mpegplayer with a view to making seeking straightforward.
16.22.45 #       <Llorean> Oh, well seeking would make me happy too.
16.23.03 #       <Llorean> My desire is for "any method that allows me to accidentally let it idle power off, then not have to watch an hour of a video to see the last 20 minutes"
16.23.35 #       <Hammer89> it'll automatically power off while playing a video?
16.24.51 #       <Llorean> It'll automatically power off if you pause the video and put it in your pocket.
16.24.55 #       <Hammer89> ah
16.25.29 #       * Llorean wonders what the maximum video runtime is now, with jhMike's improvements.
16.25.57 #       <Hammer89> usually if I have a long video I split it into chapter or time divisions... so some sort of playlisting is most important to me... seeking would definitely be nice too, though ;)
16.28.11 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: Have you thought about a video forum?  I'm not sure if we need one yet though...
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16.29.01 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: I've considered it, but I'm not sure if it needs its own forum, at least not yet.
16.29.55 #       <Llorean> I'm not sure what exactly would be discussed though, in the end.
16.30.05 Quit    RaRe ("The Evolution of Medicine - 2000 BC - Here, eat this root. 1000 AD - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer. 1850 AD - T)
16.31.20 #       <Llorean> I'm also toying with the idea of making "Audio Playback" into general "Playback" or "Audio and Video Playback" (for clarity)
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16.34.08 #       <joshin> I'd think that many people wouldn't bother with Video Playback on small screen devices and video playback posts would get lost in the noise
16.36.02 #       <Llorean> joshin: As a general rule, if a post isn't answered by the time it gets off page 1, it's probably not getting answered at all, anyway.
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16.39.48 #       <Topy44> hello
16.41.30 #       <Topy44> i use a cowon iaudio x5l running rockbox and the original firmware (with recording time hack) using the dual bootloader
16.41.58 Join    RaRe [0] (n=Laffin_B@202-89-187-101.static.dsl.amnet.net.au)
16.42.27 #       <Topy44> i just found out about the "Recording Enhancements Pack" on the forum
16.43.01 Quit    Rick (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16.43.07 #       <Topy44> are there any precompiled builds for the x5 available that already include the REP?
16.43.32 #       <Topy44> i would like to avoid having to compile it myself
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16.44.21 #       <B4gder> check around the unofficial builds
16.44.22 #       <Topy44> also, i am having a lot of trouble recording for prolonged times - i get "warning:0000002" warnings after some time
16.45.00 #       <Topy44> but i was using the release builds up to now, gotta try again using the nightly builds
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16.45.13 #       <Llorean> There have been no release builds.
16.45.42 #       <Topy44> right, i mixed stuff up, just forget my last post. :)
16.45.50 #       <B4gder> Topy44: if you want to test a patch that isn't in the svn builds then using an svn build is kind of not a choice ;-)
16.47.06 #       <Topy44> B4gder, what i ment was: i did not test if the "warning:0000002" error occures with any other build
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16.47.35 #       <Topy> argh, got disconnected
16.47.51 #       <B4gder> Topy: if there is no bug report for it and if you can repeat the problem, filing a new entry would be a good idea
16.48.49 #       <Topy> i will try to find the exact conditions where the warning shows up. i had some serious trouble two weeks ago when i recorded a whole festival, i had major FAT corruption
16.49.12 Part    B4gder
16.49.13 #       <Topy> ended up loosing some of the recorded material and having to manually reconstruct the recordings by loading a disk image as raw wave...
16.50.47 #       <Topy> is there a list of unofficial builds other than the threads in the forum? i can only find one single X5 build there
16.52.44 #       <Llorean> Topy: That forum is the list.
16.52.53 #       <Llorean> As far as what people care to come and post about.
16.53.10 #       <Llorean> Build maintainers don't always care to have a forum thread, or even announce their build outside of their own forums.
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16.54.42 #       <Topy> i will try that "ColdSphinX csBuild" then
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17.02.46 #       <JdGordon> PaulJam: Llorean: remind me tomorow about the bug you wanted me to fix... not gonna happen tonight
17.04.14 #       <Llorean> JdGordon: The mp3 represents all music files issue?
17.04.33 #       <JdGordon> umm... yeah
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17.04.42 #       <JdGordon> im going to bed in a min and gonna forget
17.05.46 #       <PaulJam> you could fix it by calling it a feature (so the user doesn't have to specify every audiofile extension in the .icons file)
17.06.06 #       <JdGordon> im not M$ :D
17.07.23 #       <Llorean> I bet fixing it would involve a lot of the same work for allowing filetypes not built-in and not in viewers.config (or at least, I bet it could)
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17.07.45 #       <JdGordon> no, it should be working... my very quick debug session before didnt show up anything
17.07.52 #       <JdGordon> then i was taken awak from the comp
17.07.58 #       <Llorean> Ah
17.08.08 #       <pondlife> Did the mono problem get fixed yet (i.e black background)
17.08.47 #       <Llorean> Nope
17.08.55 #       <pondlife> Just wondered
17.11.11 #       <Topy> what is the battery capacity of the iaudio X5L?
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17.15.47 #       <Topy> ah found it myself. search-lazy me
17.18.37 #       <PaulJam> heh, finally i found out where the reverse cursor icon is used in rockbox: in the virtual keyboard
17.18.39 #       <bluebrother> you're aware that the battery capacity setting in Rockbox is only used for the remaining runtime estimate?
17.18.55 #       <spiorf> Little WPS question: Can i put two conditionals one inside another?
17.20.39 #       <PaulJam> spiorf: yes
17.22.12 #       <PaulJam> spiorf: if you maen something like: %?mh<%?mr<%xdD|%xdB>|%?mr<%xdC|>>
17.22.49 #       <spiorf> PaulJam, yes, i meant like that
17.22.53 #       <spiorf> thanks
17.25.08 #       <Topy> bluebrother, yes, and since i use the unit mainly for recording that is quite a useful feature
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17.25.38 #       <Llorean> Topy: It's not so helpful with recording, the estimate is based on playback time.
17.26.04 #       <Topy> hm, ok then... whatever, cant be a bad thing to set it correctly anyway :)
17.26.37 #       * Llorean wonders if maybe it would be good to remove that "feature" entirely, with so many different platforms and codecs now.
17.26.56 #       <Llorean> It really doesn't serve much useful purpose as long as the % degrades linearly over time.
17.27.19 #       <pondlife> Without it would there be any chance of a runtime estimate?
17.27.35 #       <pondlife> (Not that it's accurate for most targets anyway)
17.27.40 #       <Llorean> I meant removing the whole runtime estimate feature.
17.27.45 #       <Llorean> It's mostly pointless.
17.27.52 #       <pondlife> Yes, it's a MAS-only feature at best.
17.27.56 #       <Llorean> It only works if your battery is newer than a certain age *and* you playback under certain conditions.
17.28.20 #       <pondlife> Maybe it could learn from one charge to the next?
17.28.39 #       <Llorean> If anything, the screen should just ask for "expected battery runtime" and give your estimate by using the current level % as applied to what you think the runtime will be. :-P
17.28.44 #       <pondlife> i.e. Assume a particular user's usage pattern is fairly regular
17.29.05 #       <pondlife> Maybe it should work based on a previous battery_bench output?
17.29.31 #       <Llorean> I'd rather just see the feature scrapped entirely.
17.29.50 #       <Llorean> It's (mostly) misleading, requires calibration, and we could recover a (small) bit of code size.
17.30.31 #       <Llorean> I mean the mental math to estimate how much runtime you've got left based off the battery percentage isn't exactly college level.
17.31.46 #       * Llorean wonders if removing a feature qualifies as a feature request.
17.32.05 #       <pondlife> Request to simplify and hence improve Rockbox....
17.32.11 #       <Topy> an option to see the current battery voltage instead of the percentage would be nice.. i guess the percentage isnt anywhere near linear?
17.32.23 #       <Llorean> Topy: The percentage is calibrated to be linear.
17.32.34 #       <Llorean> Or at least, we try, when we can, to calibrate it.
17.32.39 #       <pondlife> The voltage is not linear for sure
17.32.41 #       <Topy> as in, 0% is "the unit turns off now"?
17.32.41 #       <Llorean> The voltage is generally much less useful.
17.33.01 #       <Topy> ok, then it makes sence. i thought the percentage would just be based on the voltage
17.33.03 #       <Llorean> 50% means "you're halfway through with your allotted time", 0% means "It's turning off now", etc, when calibration is right.
17.33.12 #       <Llorean> It's based off a voltage curve.
17.33.41 #       <Topy> (sorry if what i say does not make much sence, my english isnt as good as it used to be)
17.33.55 #       <Llorean> Nah, I think I've got it.
17.35.17 #       <Topy> setting up to compile rockbox myself now, the "csBuild" does not work for me (it seems the included REP does not include AGC)
17.36.44 #       <Llorean> Topy: AGC should be in SVN Rockbox now... it must be a pretty old build?
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17.37.35 #       <Topy> Llorean, oh, really? where are its options? meaby i am just to stupid to use rockbox :)
17.38.14 #       <Llorean> Topy: Dunno, honestly, I never record, but I'm almost sure (not 100%) that it got committed.
17.38.40 #       <Topy> well, where SHOULD the options be?
17.38.47 #       <Topy> like, setting it to live/dj/whatever mode
17.38.52 #       <amiconn> AGC is in SVN (but swcodec only)
17.38.58 #       <Llorean> Topy: See the manual.
17.41.05 #       <Topy> Llorean, i might seem like a total idiot/noob now, but: i cannot find any reference to AGC in the manual at all. could it be that the manual for the X5 version is outdated?
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17.41.59 #       <Llorean> Topy: Actually, it looks like it may not have been added to the manual.
17.42.12 #       <Llorean> Topy: But as I said, I don't record, I have no idea where the setting should be in the various recording settings.
17.42.22 #       <amiconn> hmm....
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17.42.30 #       <Topy> phew, so at least its not my fault for not finding it :)
17.43.04 #       <pixelma> the manual is pitily not very desriptive about recording at all
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17.43.28 #       <Llorean> pixelma: I just noticed while looking.
17.43.53 #       <linuxstb> Topy: It seems only the H300/H100 manuals describe AGC...
17.44.06 #       <linuxstb> I don't know if that means it's not implemented for the X5.
17.44.34 #       <linuxstb> If you can't see it in the Recording settings menu, then I would guess it isn't available.
17.44.36 #       <AdministratorTom> hey guys, i have a iriver h10 5gb, i havnt really used my iriver cause the battery was so poor with the rockbox program. I was wondering if the code has become beter in the past 5 months, has the battery improved at all
17.45.15 #       <linuxstb> Topy: Yes, I've just checked the code, and AGC is only for H100/H300
17.46.08 #       <AdministratorTom> ?? what u reckon guys
17.46.12 #       <linuxstb> AdministratorTom: Rockbox has improved in the last 5 months, but the battery issue on H10 and ipods hasn't been solved.
17.46.33 #       <AdministratorTom> ok what improvments have been made?
17.46.43 #       <pixelma> hmm... I'm not sure but I think that there is no AGC on the iaudios - I _believe_ they only have two gain settings so not much to adjust for AGC
17.46.45 #       <AdministratorTom> i have bad vision and i love how i can change the colours so i can read it and the voice.
17.46.49 #       <Llorean> linuxstb: Is that an issue of hardware or just someone leaving it out of hte defines?
17.46.49 #       <linuxstb> AdministratorTom: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges
17.47.14 #       <linuxstb> Llorean: I'm guessing it's a hardware issue, but I don't know.
17.47.17 #       <pixelma> but better ask someone with more knowledge
17.47.21 #       <Topy> linuxstb, that explains it. only implemented on h100/h300 builds or wont it work on x5 at all?
17.47.44 #       <Topy> as in: can i integrate the patch myself without extensive coding knowledge?
17.47.46 #       <linuxstb> Topy: You're talking to people who don't know the recording code in Rockbox...
17.48.05 #       <linuxstb> petur and jhMikeS are probably the people to ask.
17.48.14 #       <pixelma> Llorean: I can only set 0db or +20dB as gain in the recording screen (M5)
17.48.45 #       <linuxstb> pixelma: Then it does sound like a hardware limitation.
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17.49.03 #       <Llorean> pixelma: Then that makes sense for why there's no AGC.
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17.49.23 #       <bluebrother> Topy: the x5 doesn't have AGC because the hardware isn't precise enough
17.50.04 #       <pixelma> that's what I think too, and I vaguely remember hearing something about this
17.50.20 #       <bluebrother> I definitely remember this being the issue ;-)
17.50.22 #       <Topy> not precice enough?
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17.50.46 #       <Topy> i can select the recording gain in finer steps on mine
17.50.56 #       <bluebrother> yes, the gain control is not fine grained enough for that feature to make sense
17.51.03 #       <Topy> aah
17.51.03 #       <amiconn> X5 and M5 don't have AGC for microphone
17.51.17 #       <Topy> so the changes would be to harsh?
17.51.24 #       <amiconn> For line in AGC should be possible, but I don't remember whether it's implemented
17.51.32 #       <bluebrother> I don't know the details, but that was the explanation, at least what I understood ;)
17.51.37 #       <Topy> (i only use line in)
17.51.40 #       <pixelma> ah... that's the only thing I tried (and am able to here ATM)
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17.52.12 #       <bluebrother> IIRC there was a (not so long) time with AGC enabled on X5 builds.
17.53.32 #       <pixelma> (i.e. no subpack - no line-in :/   )
17.53.41 #       * Llorean doesn't see AGC mentioned in relation to X5 in the changelog at all
17.54.03 #       <Llorean> At least not in the comments containing "AGC" or "gain control"
17.55.46 #       <linuxstb> The logs for config-iaudiox5.h (where it would need to be enabled) don't show it either...
17.55.52 #       <Topy> yes, the x5 only has 2 gain settings for the internal mic, but proper gain control for the line in (same with the original firmware, 2 steps for mic, 10 steps for line)
17.56.02 #       <Topy> meaby just noone ever tried it :)
17.56.11 #       <linuxstb> Only 10 steps?  That seems low.
17.56.17 #       <Topy> well, there are more in rockbox
17.56.36 #       <Topy> but probably cowon just didnt implement more in their firmware
17.56.50 #       <Topy> default is 7, which seems to be rougly 0db
17.57.28 #       <Topy> i have other strange problems with recording in rockbox, but i guess its not much use discussing these when noone is around that actually uses the recording feature :)
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17.58.13 #       <Topy> in general, the x5l is a very nice machine for taping, especially because of its immense battery capacity
17.59.10 #       <Topy> i recorded about 15 hours live without charging, and the battery wasnt completely flat yet
17.59.52 #       <Topy> the subpack sucks though... i ordered a plug from gomadic.com now to make a custom line in cable to connect to the mic preamp
18.00.42 #       <linuxstb> Unless I'm misunderstanding sound.c, the H100/H300 seem to allow gain from -128 to 96 in steps of 1 for line-in and -128 to 108 for mic.  The X5 allows from 0 to 31 for line-in and 0 to 1 for mic.
18.01.13 #       <Topy> i am using soundprofessionals' SP-CMC4 (audio technica capsules) through a SP-Preamp (preamp and battery pack) connected to the x5 for recording live metal concerts. the results are brilliant, except for the problems mentioned
18.01.27 #       <Topy> linuxstb, uff, thats a difference alright...
18.02.22 #       <Topy> i recorded using both the original firmware and rockbox, the original firmware supports mp3 recording only (up to 320kbit)
18.02.42 #       <Topy> it seems that i have more trouble with distortion when using rockbox, but i could not make direct comparsions yet
18.02.54 #       <Topy> i will do some more testing tonight at our band rehearsal
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18.23.34 #       <PaulJam> is there somewhere a complete list of the file extensions that are supported by rockbox?
18.25.40 #       <nls> firmware/id3.c and apps/pluginsviewers.config
18.26.04 #       <nls> insert / between plugins and viewers.config
18.26.13 #       <PaulJam> thanks
18.27.54 #       <PaulJam> what about extension like .fnt or . lng?
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18.30.07 #       <nls> PaulJam: in apps/tree.c there's a better list
18.30.19 #       <PaulJam> thank you
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18.44.56 #       <pondlife> PaulJam: You'd think that would be in filetypes.c, wouldn't you ;)
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19.17.13 #       <PaulJam> is there a reason why rockbox_flash is compiled for the H300 and associated to .iriver files?
19.17.40 #       <Llorean> Because it's expected that we'll be able to flash them like we do the h100s, I assume.
19.18.01 #       <Llorean> They should still RoLo unless you "Open With"
19.18.46 #       <roolku> no that is a bug (should not be compiled for h100 either)
19.19.48 #       <roolku> whoops rockbox_flash is archos only, isn't it?
19.19.49 #       <PaulJam> looks like it is compiled on targets
19.20.08 #       <Llorean> roolku: Well, it depends on whether he means "firmware_flash" or "iriver_flash"
19.20.11 #       * roolku was thinking about iriver_flash
19.20.23 #       <Llorean> roolku: But iriver_flash is compiled for H100, and why shouldn't it be?
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19.21.26 #       <roolku> PaulJam: from rockbox_flash: #if !defined(SIMULATOR) && (CONFIG_CPU == SH7034) /* Only for SH targets */
19.22.22 #       <linuxstb_> PaulJam: Are you using a sim?
19.22.45 #       <PaulJam> yes
19.23.16 #       <PaulJam> h300 sim for windows
19.23.26 #       <linuxstb_> Try a real build...
19.26.51 #       <amiconn> PaulJam: Maybe it's compiled, but it's empty
19.27.04 #       <amiconn> If you try to run it you'll get incompatible model
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19.30.10 #       <PaulJam> yes, the zip for the actual darget doen't contain it. sorry for the confusion.
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19.34.31 #       <amiconn> 'make zip' leaves out zero-byte files, but empty sim plugins aren't zero-byte files
19.35.03 #       <amiconn> So 'make install' even installs those empty plugins... looks like apps/plugins/SOURCES needs some fixing
19.37.13 #       <linuxstb_> Seems there are two such empty plugins - rockbox_flash and firmware_flash
19.39.01 #       <Llorean> Why're there two flashing plugins?
19.40.23 #       <amiconn> firmwar_flash does the initial flash (flash loader + bootbox + space for a second image), rockbox_flash is a viewer and handles updating the second (main) image (.ucl)
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19.43.30 #       <Cojy> hi guys
19.43.36 #       <Cojy> can I ask somethin'?
19.44.10 #       <Cojy> does anybody know if the firmware of the creative zen vision m can be modified?
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19.46.16 #       <linuxstb_> Cojy: Anything can be modified if you try hard enough...
19.46.29 #       * roolku notices some interesting gigabeat stuff in the hardware forum http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9846.msg76503
19.46.58 #       <linuxstb_> Cojy: Seen this thread? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3320.0
19.47.50 #       <Cojy> ok...thanks
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19.51.51 #       <desowin> Gigabeat F firmware hacking information  (Read 404 times)
19.51.54 #       <desowin> nice number
19.54.59 #       * moos is reading too ... :)
19.55.10 #       <moos> really interesting posts
19.57.26 #       <linuxstb_> Anyone downloaded the files?  I can't face rapidshare.de....
19.58.52 #       <moos> which ones do you want?
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20.05.03 #       <linuxstb_> Moos: It's OK, thanks.  rapidshare.de isn't too bad compared to some of the other free download sites.
20.05.20 #       <moos> hehe, no problems :)
20.06.06 #       <linuxstb_> Although I lost my connection during a download and now it thinks I'm still downloading a file...
20.15.20 #       <preglow> anyone know when soc final allocations are made?
20.15.23 #       <preglow> or are they already?
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20.18.27 #       <desowin> preglow: those are already
20.19.04 #       <desowin> preglow: only if student can't take part, he still can tell it to google, so he's place will be taken by someone else
20.19.53 #       <desowin> atleast it's what was written in "congratulations" email ...
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20.27.00 #       * roolku has "Powerup on AC plugin" and "Shorted delay on POWER" on his gigabeat now. :)
20.27.07 #       <roolku> excellent stuff
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20.33.18 #       <amiconn> How long does the gigabeat (normally) need from pressing power to resuming playback in rockbox?
20.35.31 #       <Llorean> amiconn: If you leave all the original firmware files on disk (don't replace them with the minimalized ones), you end up with if I recall about 7-8 seconds?
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20.36.16 #       <Llorean> Well, that's to "filetree", I don't have resume on startup enabled.
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20.48.20 #       <roolku> amiconn: I never measured, but a very long press was needed to initiate the boot - IIUC this is what has been shortened
20.48.55 #       <roolku> car adapter mode is working as advertised with the mod - now i just need a car :)
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21.03.13 #       <Llorean> perldiver: Mine just arrived, the box claims it's champagne aluminum, but side by side with my silver the only really noticeable differences are that it's a bit shinier, and the words "Toshiba" and "Gigabeat F40" on the front are dark instead of white.
21.03.36 #       <Llorean> It also doesn't have the holographic sticker on the back that my other one has, I'm not sure if that's standard or not, though.
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21.07.46 #       <markun> roolku: nice
21.08.05 #       <markun> next will be to have our own bootloader in flash
21.08.40 #       * Llorean looks forward to that.
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21.10.04 #       <markun> Llorean: with sleep mode support!
21.10.15 #       <SliMM> hello
21.10.23 #       <markun> hi SliMM
21.10.25 #       <Llorean> markun: I'd just like fast boot times, and no stupid Toshiba progress bar. :)
21.11.15 #       <markun> Llorean: it's also nice if you pause too long, it enters sleep mode (which it does now anyway) and you can turn it on and continue your music without rebuffering
21.11.39 #       <markun> should be a very fast boot time
21.12.16 #       <Llorean> That ought to be nice.
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21.22.07 #       * linuxstb_ is happy to see shoora's realname in his source files...
21.23.41 #       <markun> yes, that's a nice start
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21.29.23 #       <pixelma> that's strange - for the greyscale remote everything is set up so that it can use greyscale default icons (there is a ...x2.bmp and it's referenced in SOURCES) - but for the greyscale main lcds there is no ..x2.bmp and in the respective SOURCES it's defined to use the mono bitmap...
21.30.15 #       <SliMM> is it 'useless' or 'useles'?
21.30.30 #       <SliMM> and 'harmful' or 'harmfull'?
21.30.32 #       <markun> SliMM: www.m-w.com
21.30.51 #       <SliMM> markun: thanks
21.31.00 #       <markun> I have to use it a lot too :)
21.31.29 #       * markun is not great at spelling in most languages
21.32.09 #       <Llorean> pixelma: What target has a 2bpp remote?
21.32.17 #       <pixelma> X5/M5
21.35.44 #       <pixelma> should I "fix" this (also add a dummy icons.bmp and change SOURCES respectively)? I mean it will be only a copy of the mono icons but that's what's used for colour screens too (almost)
21.35.58 #       <Llorean>  Probably
21.37.59 #       <markun> SliMM: useful site?
21.38.21 #       <SliMM> markun: indeed
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21.49.58 #       <SliMM> may i take ColdSphinX's gif viewer andmake it avaiable for grayscale targets too?
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21.59.17 #       <Spec> so what's the easiest way to get album art for a bunch of music? is there a cddb-like-thing for album art? :p
21.59.39 #       <Domonoky> is there a way to resize the vmware image  ??
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22.00.05 #       * Domonoky found something.. 
22.00.10 #       <obo> Spec: apt-get install albumart
22.00.43 #       <Spec> heh
22.01.22 #       <Spec> also, when i'm done playing music...is it best to hold down play to turn it off, or is there a suspend-to-ram/sleep type option?
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22.01.55 #       <Bagder> there's no suspend function
22.03.02 #       <Spec> wouldn't that eat less power than booting every time i turn it on?
22.03.13 #       <Bagder> no
22.03.30 #       <Bagder> the most power-eating things are the harddrive and LCD anyway
22.04.18 #       <SliMM> fine, i'll wait for coldsphinx
22.04.24 #       <Spec> isn't the harddrive used extensively on bootup?
22.04.35 #       <Spec> err, i take that back, reading the ram from the hd is gonna be the same -.-
22.04.52 #       <SliMM> anyway, how many bpp has a "grayscale" target?
22.04.54 #       <preglow> Bagder: i thought lcd hardly east anything
22.04.57 #       <preglow> couple of miliamps or something
22.04.59 #       <preglow> eats
22.05.05 #       <Bagder> I meant backlight
22.05.16 #       <preglow> then we're in agreement after all :>
22.05.21 #       <Llorean> SliMM: The H100, iPod 4G, and M5 I believe are all 2bpp
22.05.26 #       * Llorean isn't 100% sure about the M5
22.05.56 #       <SliMM> so should i make the gifviewer work with the famous grayscale lib?
22.06.08 #       <Llorean> If you're going to adapt it, yes.
22.06.35 #       <SliMM> and does the grayscale lib work on 1bpp lcds?
22.06.50 #       <Domonoky> SliMM: would be good, the jpeg viewer also uses the grayscalelib
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22.06.56 #       <Llorean> SliMM: Yes, it does.
22.07.03 #       <Domonoky> and it works on 1bpp display
22.07.03 #       <moos> Lorean: the iaudio remote is yeah
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22.07.17 #       <SliMM> i'll take a look over the grayscale lib then
22.07.45 #       * SliMM will be back in 10
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22.08.00 #       <Spec> and one final question....what's the best way to convert music already on the iPod in iTunes format into rockbox-goodness? I built the database on rockbox, but some of the song names/titles are like "DZSP", etc, and sometimes the song names are correct...
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22.08.28 #       <markun> Spec: do you still have the files on you computer?
22.08.43 #       <Spec> markun: yes and no....the files are in existances, but it might take me a week to get to 'em
22.09.01 #       <markun> well, I don't know the easiest way
22.09.03 #       <Spec> does a weird-filename imply there is no id3 tag for the file?
22.09.22 #       <markun> the reason you are seeing the weird titles is because they are not all properly tagged
22.09.25 #       <markun> yes
22.09.34 #       <Spec> ok, so manually tagging each file = the solution :-/
22.09.55 #       <webguest77> hi all... anyone know why some tracks should show under <untagged> in the database but playing the track and "show ID3 info" gives the correct tag
22.09.57 #       <markun> just the files wich show strange names
22.10.18 #       <Spec> of the thousands of files, i don't know exactly which ones show strange names
22.10.24 #       <markun> webguest77: no, not really
22.10.27 #       <Spec> but i can write a script that'll tell me if there's no id3tag present
22.10.55 #       <Bagder> webguest77: sounds like a database bug if so
22.11.10 #       <PaulJam> webguest77: were the tags incorrect when you initialized the database?
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22.11.40 #       <webguest77> PaulJam: possibly but I believe I reinitialised it?
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22.12.07 #       <crop> Shouldn't "Reset settings" also set the WPS to the default one? It just hasn't on the gigabeat sim.
22.12.30 #       <markun> crop: yes, I it should
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22.13.21 #       <Spec> so there is no decent album art database?
22.13.23 #       <webguest77> Spec: have you tried something like http://www.mp3tag.de/en/
22.13.37 #       <Spec> no
22.13.50 #       <crop> markun: hm... it didn't work for me. Could you also test it?
22.13.57 #       <Spec> oh wow, renames files based on tags
22.14.08 #       <markun> crop: in the sim?
22.14.11 #       <Spec> webguest77: does it run on linux?
22.14.22 #       <pixelma> Llorean: yes the M5 has a 2bpp screen
22.14.22 #       <webguest77> Spec: dunno, sorry
22.14.22 #       <crop> And one more thing: how can I (re)set the WPS to the default one without resetting all the settings?
22.14.24 #       <Spec> nope :p
22.15.00 #       <crop> markun: yes, I only tested on the sim. But I'll test on target as well. I think it doesn't depend on the platform.
22.15.03 #       <Llorean> crop: Choose "rockbox_default" from browse themes, or browse .wps
22.15.19 #       <obo> Spec: have a look at picard - another apt-gettable one
22.15.31 #       <crop> Llorean: is there such theme? Or only font?
22.15.31 #       <Spec> obo: you weren't kidding about albumart?
22.15.40 #       <Spec> obo: what distro/repository? it's not on my ubuntu repo
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22.15.45 #       <Llorean> crop: There's a wps for it at least.
22.15.48 #       <obo> no, I use it here
22.15.50 #       <Llorean> crop: There might also be a theme.
22.16.22 #       <obo> Spec: it's in edgy and feisty
22.16.25 #       <Spec> are there any plugins that visualize audio output other than the oscilloscope?
22.16.38 #       <Spec> obo: ah hah, i believe i checked on a dapper
22.16.42 #       <webguest77> PaulJam: did you have something in mind - files to try deleting or something like that?
22.17.29 #       <crop> Llorean: yes, on target (not the latest build though) there is rockbox_default theme, but not on the sim (latest build)
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22.17.56 #       <PaulJam> you could delete the *.tcd files from the .rockbox directory and reinitioalize the database. export your runtimeinfo before if you use that.
22.18.15 #       <PaulJam> this was for webguest77
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22.18.29 #       <webguest77> PaulJam: ok, willing to try it
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22.19.29 #       <Spec> so are there any configuration tips/tricks for getting the music to switch tracks faster (ie: pushing "next" in the middle of a song has a noticable delay)
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22.20.11 #       <PaulJam> Spec: do you have crossfading enabled?
22.20.19 #       <Spec> i disabled it
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22.21.25 #       <Spec> oh yeah, on an ipod 5g (video), shouldn't i be able to plug in the output of another mp3 player, and record the input?
22.21.30 #       <crop> How can I install the packaged themes on the sim? I did make && make install but find no themes on the sim
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22.23.28 #       <crop> Oh, themes are not in SVN?
22.23.53 #       <SliMM> crop: just rockboxed, ichatcher and boxes
22.24.04 #       <pixelma> depends on the target
22.24.06 #       <SliMM> unicatcher and the rockbox default
22.24.27 #       <SliMM> depends on the target, as pixelma said
22.24.47 #       <webguest77> PaulJam: well that worked :)
22.25.17 #       <webguest77> (it seems that reinitialising doesn't work very well - or I messed it up)
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22.26.13 #       <crop> SliMM: I see many WPS's in SVN but none is installed (copied to archos) by make install. Is it ok?
22.26.39 #       <PaulJam> webguest77: did you use "update now" or "initialize now" after you changed the tags?
22.27.04 #       <SliMM> well, in the ipod 5g sim, there is rockboxed, i/uni catcher and boxes
22.27.08 #       <webguest77> I believe I tried both - as you do
22.27.37 #       <crop> SliMM: after make install? Or is there another make target?
22.27.49 #       <SliMM> no, after make install
22.28.56 #       <crop> Hrm. Not for me. At least not for gigabeat and h120
22.29.15 #       <Spec>  what is the "bindiretional scroll limit"?
22.29.36 #       <Spec> and is there a way to "accelerate" scrolling, ie: step up the scrolling speed if you keep scrolling down a long list
22.30.20 #       <crop> Fonts are all installed (copied) but not the WPS's
22.30.30 #       <Rincewind> Spec: it should accelerate automatically
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22.31.10 #       <Spec> it seems to get slower :-/
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22.32.09 #       <Spec> definitely seems like it has a negative acceleration :p
22.32.23 #       <SliMM> i'll see what i can do with the gif viewer tommorow
22.32.46 #       <SliMM> will it be comitted if i add grayscale support?
22.33.37 Nick    linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
22.33.41 #       <Domonoky> SliMM: depends .. :-)
22.33.50 #       <Bagder> SliMM: possibly, yes
22.33.54 #       <SliMM> depends on what?
22.34.13 #       <Domonoky> SliMM: it should match the coding styles, work on every possible target..
22.34.54 #       <SliMM> i will just add some #ifdefs and use the grayscale lib, it's not my work
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22.35.25 #       <Domonoky> there is no garantie for commiting.. :-)
22.35.40 #       <SliMM> ok
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22.36.22 #       <SliMM> i have a difficult time in understainding someone else's code, that's why i can't do more than add grayscale support
22.37.42 #       <Domonoky_> its fine, add it, and somebody else can improve it more, if it needs more work.. just dont expect it to be commited asap..
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22.38.02 #       <SliMM> ok :)
22.38.32 #       <SliMM> i'll talk to coldsphinx, mabe he helps me in understainding how gifs can be decoded
22.38.59 #       <SliMM> so i can make my on gif decoding function, and make an extensible image viewer
22.39.16 #       <SliMM> my own*
22.39.40 #       <SliMM> but now it's time to say good night
22.39.49 #       <SliMM> or rather good bye :)
22.39.54 #       <Domonoky_> an extensible image viewer would be nice.. but i think thats not an easy task..
22.42.35 #       <SliMM> Domonoky_: once i understaind gif, jpeg and png decoding, i can make a separate function for eachone that dumps the data into a fb_data array and do scaling and other stuff on that array independently
22.43.05 #       <Bagder> the fb_data is the frame buffer
22.43.33 #       <SliMM> fb_data is short int iirc
22.43.34 #       <Bagder> you should scale things _from_ that, but rather to that
22.43.47 #       <Bagder> SliMM: it depends on target
22.44.03 #       <SliMM> well, short int array than
22.44.10 #       <SliMM> then*
22.44.13 #       <Bagder> yes, depending on what target
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22.45.14 #       <SliMM> Bagder: i think is more cpu-intensive to read and decode every time zooming is performed
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22.45.29 #       <moos> SliMM: you may clean up already your own patch and get it commited first (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7022) ;P
22.45.31 #       <Bagder> I didn't say you had to do that
22.46.04 #       <Bagder> maybe I misunderstood
22.46.20 #       <SliMM> moos: what's wrong with it? :)
22.46.38 #       <SliMM> Bagder: maybe i misunderstood :)
22.46.55 #       <moos> ask commiters that would look at it and make it svn material
22.47.29 #       <SliMM> Bagder, could you please take a look over my patch at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7022
22.47.46 #       <SliMM> and make it svn material if possible? :)
22.48.10 #       <SliMM> or tell me what i should do to make it commitable
22.48.14 #       <Bagder> tabs
22.48.22 #       <Bagder> long lines
22.48.33 #       <SliMM> no tabs?
22.48.48 #       <SliMM> why shouldn't i use tabs?
22.48.51 #       <Bagder> and perhaps most importantly, why the rush to add something that nobody uses?
22.49.09 #       <Bagder> SliMM: you should follow the rockbox-style of indenting source code
22.49.37 #       <SliMM> Bagder: no rush, moos just told me that i should get my patch commited :)
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22.50.07 #       <SliMM> Bagder: a wiki link pls to take a look over rockbox-style of indenting source code
22.50.12 #       <Bagder> SliMM: and you blindly do what people ask you? ;-)
22.50.25 #       <SliMM> Bagder: not always
22.50.39 #       <Bagder> http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/docs/CONTRIBUTING?view=markup
22.50.41 #       <gigapete> hey guys, i've reformatted my gigabeat f40 and now i can't even get it to power up, can anyone offer some advise?
22.50.54 #       <moos> SliMM: I meant take in exemple to how to do for folow the rockbox rules, even if the patch isn't usuful, made it clean is good for you first
22.51.00 #       <linuxstb_> gigapete: Yes, don't do that...
22.51.35 #       <linuxstb_> gigapete: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort#Gigabeat_Recovery_Procedures
22.51.59 #       <SliMM> moos: it looked pretty clean to me :)
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22.52.53 #       <moos> Bagder just pointed you some rockbox code style for exemple
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22.54.18 #       <moos> once you will get all the "how to make things clean and svn material", you will can made usuful patch (that just what I wanted to say first)
22.54.40 #       <SliMM> moos: ok :)
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22.55.06 #       <SliMM> i've read that before, Bagder, but not completly :)
22.55.30 #       <dionoea> linuxstb_: can rockbox render text over the mpegplayer output ?
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22.55.47 #       <linuxstb_> dionoea: No.
22.55.55 #       <markun> dionoea: not yet, but jhMikeS had some nice ideas for overlay
22.56.09 #       <SliMM> CR LF is no problem, tabs.. i don't think they're a problem.. 80 columns lines.. this needs some wortk :)
22.56.50 #       <SliMM> markun: what ideas? :D
22.57.22 #       <dionoea> it's not rendering in the same buffer or something ?
22.57.47 #       <SliMM> damn, it's late here, good bye
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22.57.59 #       <markun> supplying a mask to the yuv2rgb function
22.58.16 #       <markun> which will decide which pixels should be taken from the framebuffer and which from the yuv buffer
22.58.23 #       <dionoea> can't you render after the call to the yuv rendering function?
22.58.34 #       <dionoea> (might be inefficient)
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22.58.57 #       <markun> dionoea: if you do it during the yuv conversion you don't need to convert all the pixels to RGB
22.59.00 #       <dionoea> or maybe even render the text directly in y(uv)
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22.59.40 #       <dionoea> so you render it in the y buffer using white/black (won't need any rendering in the chroma buffers)
22.59.47 #       <markun> dionoea: and we were also thinking of adding support for alpha blending
23.00.21 #       <markun> what about the progress bar while seeking?
23.00.32 #       <dionoea> oh, i though that there were CPU problems when runing mpegplayer :)
23.00.49 #       <Bagder> dionoea: those gigabeaters you know... :-)
23.00.50 #       <markun> dionoea: jhMikeS and I both have a Gigabeat :)
23.00.54 #       <dionoea> ah :)
23.01.16 #       <markun> we'll see how well it turns out, it will just be an experiment
23.01.52 #       <dionoea> I'll try to render some (constant) string on top of the yuv buffer to see if it can be done at reasonable speed
23.05.19 #       * TrueJournals hugs loadable icons :-D
23.10.11 #       <Spec> how hard would it be to implement a new "way" to browse the database?
23.10.47 #       <Spec> I want an A-Z listing on the left side, and while you scroll down the A-Z list, on the right side of the screen it should show the files that begin with that letter, then when you click on "B" for example, you'll go to the second window and be able to scroll down the songs starting with "b"
23.11.23 #       <TrueJournals> Like the way the Zen does it?
23.11.28 #       <Spec> i haven't seen a zen
23.11.36 #       <Spec> it's like the way the old Rios did it
23.11.42 #       <TrueJournals> Ah, because my friend has one and that's exactly what it does
23.11.58 #       <TrueJournals> Anyway, I'm no coder, but I think that would require quite a bit of work
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23.12.54 #       <markun> Spec: I have some ideas for that
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23.13.02 #       <markun> but more flexible than A-Z listing
23.13.12 #       <markun> will also work with other languages for example
23.13.59 #       <Spec> ah
23.14.04 #       <Spec> well, i can program a little, but not much C
23.14.15 #       <Spec> i could probably figure out how to do it, as long as i could make a "window" in rockbox-land
23.15.10 #       <Spec> are there any patches for things like this?
23.15.23 #       <Spec> alternate database-browsing methods, that is
23.15.23 #       <markun> search the patch tracker, I didn't really look
23.15.36 #       <markun> I didn't want to do it just for te database of course
23.15.49 #       <markun> for any list
23.16.12 #       <Spec> right
23.16.16 #       <Spec> are you a programmer?
23.16.19 #       <markun> yes
23.16.23 #       <Spec> familiar with rockbox source?
23.16.25 #       <linuxstb> Spec: A window will probably need to wait for viewports to arrive.
23.16.39 #       <Spec> viewports?
23.16.43 #       <markun> Spec: familiar with some parts
23.17.16 #       <linuxstb> Spec: Basically windows...
23.17.28 #       <Spec> yeap
23.17.29 #       <Spec> read spec now
23.18.12 #       <markun> but I don't think not having viewports is an obstacle for having such a quick jump function
23.19.03 #       <Spec> well, you'd have to bring up the data for all songs starting with "A" in a "window" to the right of your a-z list
23.19.36 #       <Spec> but it seems like viewports is for the WPS only?
23.19.48 #       <markun> Spec: my list would/will be vertical
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23.20.00 #       <dionoea> linuxstb_: how do you get the pitch / line length for a given plane in the mpeg2_info_t struct ?
23.20.02 #       <linuxstb> Spec: No, they'll be implemented at the lcd driver level, so available throughout Rockbox.
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23.20.24 #       <Spec> they should just implement curses
23.20.37 #       <markun> Spec: which 'they'?
23.20.41 #       <Spec> you!
23.20.44 #       <Spec> :p
23.20.46 #       <markun> fuck you :)
23.20.53 #       <markun> pardon my french
23.20.59 #       <Spec> markun: it's ok, i don't speak french
23.21.05 #       <markun> I'm still learning
23.21.19 #       <markun> but I have to leave again in 3 weeks..
23.21.24 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: You mean the width?
23.21.40 #       <markun> Spec: shall I explain you my 'quick jump' idea?
23.21.41 #       <dionoea> well the buffer width and displayed buffer width (in cas they're not equal)
23.21.43 #       <Spec> is there a place i can write a spec/proposal for rockbox?
23.21.48 #       <Spec> markun: yes, with pretty pictures if possible
23.21.48 #       <dionoea> *case
23.21.59 #       <markun> Spec: I'll just do it in text:
23.22.15 #       <markun> first you calculate the number of line in the screen with the current font
23.22.25 #       <dionoea> linuxstb: so i know how much bytes i have to skip to go to the next line
23.22.27 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: See the vo_setup() function in video_out_rockbox.c
23.22.44 #       <dionoea> ok, thanks
23.22.55 #       <markun> than you devide the list into a number of groups euqal to the number of lines
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23.23.00 #       <linuxstb> That's passed the info->sequence structure.
23.23.26 #       <markun> then for each line you display the first few unique letters of the first and last item
23.23.29 #       <dionoea> ah, 1 page up :)
23.23.37 #       <dionoea> ok, sequence was what i was looking for
23.23.43 #       <markun> like this: [Amo .. Bea]
23.23.45 #       <dionoea> width and height are for Y ?
23.23.54 #       <markun> [Bec .. Cae]
23.24.09 #       <markun> etc
23.24.16 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: Yes, and the other two planes are half the width and height.
23.24.25 #       <dionoea> i expected that :)
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23.24.38 #       <Spec> markun: is that all the lines currently on the screen, or in the whole list?
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23.24.41 #       <markun> if you click on one of the items it will just to the first entry in that group
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23.25.00 #       <markun> Spec: what do you mean?
23.25.13 #       <Spec> markun: so you want to on-the-fly group entries into categories, so it'd be like [a - c], [c - e]?
23.25.14 #       <markun> s/just/jump/
23.25.23 #       <markun> yes
23.25.41 #       <Spec> i'd rather have two windows :p
23.25.41 #       <markun> but would work also for people with russian and greek files for example
23.25.49 #       <markun> 2 windows of what?
23.26.35 #       <markun> Spec: just program your thing if you think it's better
23.27.00 #       <Spec> hah =p
23.27.25 #       <dionoea> ok, so it's rendering a doted white/black line without affecting the framerate too much. I'll try with text now
23.28.03 #       <Spec> markun: my idea is like this: http://pastebin.ca/445437
23.28.17 #       <dionoea> btw, how many fps should i expect with the 16:9 elephant dreams sample on the ipod video ?
23.28.34 #       <dionoea> (i get ~16 fps with no skipping and limiting, ~10 fps with skipping enabled)
23.28.39 #       <Spec> markun: you should definitely make your idea, the more ways to access the database/file information, the better.
23.28.51 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: Sounds about right.
23.29.01 #       <markun> Spec: I don't agree
23.29.11 #       <Spec> whyn't?
23.29.11 #       <markun> we have to think about file size
23.29.17 #       <dionoea> ok. (i'm unsure if my cop's used or not ... but i don't really care atm)
23.29.31 #       <Spec> file size?
23.29.46 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: If the COP wasn't being used, you wouldn't get 16fps
23.29.50 #       <dionoea> ok
23.29.52 #       <markun> well, adding more and more things which do more or less the same is just a waste of bytes imo
23.30.12 #       <Spec> markun: well, i wasn't thinking of including them in main rockbox
23.30.18 #       <Spec> but a patch to allow me to search my way would be uber nifty
23.30.19 #       <markun> why not?
23.30.31 #       <linuxstb> A patch like that would soon go out of sync
23.30.36 #       <Spec> markun: not everyone will like either of our ideas
23.30.45 #       <markun> They will have to :)
23.31.11 #       <Spec> so you don't think it'll be easily doable until viewports?
23.31.23 #       <Spec> linuxstb: for my idea, not markun's
23.31.27 #       <Spec> 'cause markun's is doable right now :p
23.31.40 #       <markun> Spec: what's the advantage of your idea?
23.31.41 #       <Bagder> both are doable right now
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23.32.07 #       <Spec> markun: so you can scroll down letter of alphabet by letter of alphabet, and see the songs on the right side
23.32.20 #       <Spec> it's more aesthetically pleasing
23.32.25 #       <markun> aha
23.32.30 #       <linuxstb> markun: Your idea is to be able to collapse any long list and expand it based on the group headings?
23.32.32 #       <Spec> Bagder: how would you have a list beside a list like that?
23.32.41 #       <markun> linuxstb: yes
23.32.55 #       <Bagder> Spec: ? I would make two lists
23.33.06 #       <Bagder> why would that be hard?
23.33.40 #       <linuxstb> Scrolling lines?  Or can they be done with a left margin already?
23.33.41 #       <Spec> err
23.33.48 #       <Spec> Bagder: i haven't seen a rockbox menu that has "windows" like that
23.33.50 #       <Bagder> ah scrolling will be hard yes
23.33.55 #       <markun> linuxstb: what do you think of it? LinusN liked it.
23.34.37 #       <webguest77> Can anyone explain the following... I have a track \Eiffel 65\zzMisc\Eiffel 65 - Blue.mp3 which is tagged with Eiffel 65 as the artist, no album and the title is 'Blue (Da Ba Dee)' in the database, if I go through Artist, <All tracks> it shows Blue (Da Ba Dee) but if I go through <untagged> it shows '65. Blue (Da Ba Dee) - 03:29'
23.34.41 #       <linuxstb> markun: I don't have any long lists...
23.35.01 #       <markun> linuxstb: use your imagination then :)
23.35.24 #       <Spec> linuxstb/bagder: is there a place i can create a featurerequest/spec for "the future" when it'll be possible to implement the idea?
23.35.41 #       <webguest77> (and the Genre database seems to have a lot of 0-9a-z single character entries that I can't fathom)
23.35.51 #       <markun> webguest77: I can only tell you that you shouldn't be listening to that music anyway :)
23.35.58 #       <Bagder> Spec: I'm quite sure this idea already is filed (at least once)
23.36.08 #       <Spec> hmm, are there any patches associated with it? :p
23.36.13 #       <Bagder> in the feature request tracker
23.36.24 #       <webguest77> markun: yeah, it's not my normal listening - has some comedy value
23.36.29 #       <markun> :)
23.36.31 #       <Bagder> Spec: not that I know of
23.36.39 #       <Spec> where's the feature request tracker?
23.37.09 #       <Spec> never mind
23.37.11 #       * Spec is blind.
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23.39.01 #       <dionoea> yay! It's rendering "Hello!" in the Y buffer (and i'm lost about 0.5 fps)
23.39.08 #       <dionoea> or maybe less
23.40.10 #       <dionoea> linuxstb: if i need some text buffer (like for subs rendering), do i have to allocate it statically somewhere in mpegplayer.c or do you have some malloc emulation ?
23.40.26 #       <dionoea> well, not subs rendering, but storing the subs before they're rendered
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23.40.58 #       <webguest92> hi
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23.41.27 #       <webguest92> hi
23.42.11 #       <webguest92> is there a way to put rockbox in sleep mode like apple firmware
23.42.18 #       <webguest92> is there a way to put rockbox in sleep mode like apple firmware
23.42.20 #       <Bagder> no
23.42.23 #       <linuxstb> dionoea: Look at the start of the plugin_start() function in mpegplayer.c - it grabs the audio buffer and then allocates bits of memory for different things.  2MB is given to libmpeg2 for it to malloc() from, the rest is assigned statically.  I think it would be best if you allocated a subtitle buffer from that memory pool when mpegplayer is started.
23.42.54 #       <webguest92> will there be
23.43.19 #       <linuxstb> Maybe, but no-one has expressed an interest in implementing it.
23.43.37 #       <webguest92> ok
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23.45.22 #       <dionoea> linuxstb: ok. (I'll go for simple srt subs)
23.45.55 #       <dionoea> start time / stop time / text should be more than enough for subs support
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23.54.40 #       <BHSPitMonkey> man, it sure takes a while to scroll from top-to-bottom in the Balance setting
23.55.04 #       * roolku sighs
23.55.21 #       <roolku> first victim of the gigabeat firmware flash
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23.55.30 #       <BHSPitMonkey> :/
23.55.37 #       <markun> roolku: bricked?
23.55.39 #       <BHSPitMonkey> bricked? or...
23.56.35 #       <roolku> not me - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9846.msg76535#msg76535
23.56.55 #       <roolku> seems recoverable though ... I don't quite understand what he has done
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23.58.22 #       <sslashes> linuxstb: do we have any information about how the device moves into sleep mode?
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