--- Log for 05.09.107 Server: clarke.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot_ Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 15 hours and 9 minutes ago 00.00.33 # find out where the config file is (it's hidden by default), attach, find log file, attach x2 v run rbutil attach. 00.00.38 Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-11far66.dsl.mindspring.com) 00.00.55 # hmm i think i miscounted xD 00.01.02 Quit Matt-W (Remote closed the connection) 00.01.13 # still the config file is hidden by default 00.01.16 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) 00.01.23 # In that case, there's a lot of steps to installing RBUtil, creating the log, etc, as well 00.01.33 # you want a clueless user to delve into the underbelly of RB? 00.01.36 # Either way, one requires an additional program to be run or available, the other does not. 00.01.45 # DefineByte: How is "copying one file" delving into the underbelly? 00.01.56 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952BF16.dip.t-dialin.net) 00.02.10 # the steps for installing RBUtil have already occured. it is the only supported method of installation (in the future) 00.02.18 # Yes 00.02.27 # But again, there's no guarantee it's on the computer they're using 00.02.44 # Someone's player dies at work, they seek help during lunch, for example 00.02.46 # There's no guarantee it *can* run rbutil 00.02.51 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Connection timed out) 00.02.59 # There's no sense in REQUIRING RBUtil if it's not *necessary*, and in this case, it's not. 00.03.19 # Incidentally, is it intentional that rbutil isn't included in the tarballs? 00.03.21 # jeez, what is the point of RBUtil then? 00.03.22 # I am having trouble building a rb environment on ubuntu 00.03.25 # The whole point of Rockbox is to not tether your player to a specific piece of software, and we shouldn't tether support to that piece of software beyond any files created during installation 00.03.31 # DefineByte: It's a bloody INSTALLER 00.03.38 # checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... no 00.03.38 # configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables. 00.03.39 # haha easy :p 00.03.44 # DefineByte: How many more times do you need to be told that, seriously? 00.03.49 # that is the error I am getting 00.03.55 # so why is it called rbutil then and not rbinstaller? 00.03.55 Quit petur ("Zzzzz") 00.04.02 # jac0b: have you installed the build-essential package? 00.04.07 # DefineByte: Because it can also create voice files, talk clips, install themes... 00.04.27 # where is that 00.04.32 # hmmm i thought it was just an installer. my mistake :) 00.04.39 # it's a ubuntu package... so apt-get/synatpic etc 00.04.48 # oh okay 00.04.54 # DefineByte: Its purpose is to be an installer. 00.05.04 # but... :) 00.05.05 # DefineByte: But it serves several secondary functions. 00.05.21 # Even if it does serve other functions, none of those is "be required for support requests." 00.05.22 # like formatting support requests? no? why not? 00.05.36 # and why is that? 00.05.43 # I've told you, several times 00.05.48 # It may not be available when the request is being made. 00.05.56 # Explain to me why, if software is not necessary, we should MAKE it necessary? 00.06.31 # that should be added to the wiki for 00.06.41 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-a00f7fdf1a6daefe) 00.06.49 Quit atsea-68 (SendQ exceeded) 00.06.54 # i don't remember saying support should be denied to those who don't follow the formal procedure. one minute, i'll check 00.06.59 # wait, nope :) 00.07.07 # obo: thanks that worked 00.07.07 Quit SoapSud ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 00.07.08 # besides, qt is not accessible, there are people on that planet that can not even use rbutil. 00.07.13 # DefineByte: You said the formal support process should include an unnecessary step. 00.07.13 # jac0b: it's specific to Debian and Ubuntu. 00.07.32 # delYsid: it is accessible, or at least it can be 00.07.46 # no the FORMAL request procedure should require it. informal requests would obviously...not 00.07.46 # maybe at least a note saying to install that for debian based os's 00.07.46 # :) 00.07.56 # Bagder: no, I tell you, reality is different. Trolltech is doing pr, but there is no working solution yet. 00.08.03 # jac0b: it is mentioned in the wiki already 00.08.04 # DefineByte: Why should we have to ask "Give me this", find out their log contains outdated cfg settings, then make a second request, rather than requesting exactly what we need up front? 00.08.30 # DefineByte: Why should the formal request be made more complicated by the additional chance of unavailable information? 00.08.44 # where are you getting this outdated log from? you were the one who started all this paste the log business. :) 00.08.51 # DefineByte: You really, really need to stop making things more complicated. Yes, RBUtil doing it might be *slightly* easier, but it also add a degree of complexity that invites failure. 00.08.52 # Bagder: The fact taht FILES need to include FILES is a bit... odd 00.09.00 # hehe, yeah 00.09.13 # DefineByte: I explicitly said I do NOT WANT IT PASTED. You're the one who mentioned pasting it to the forums. 00.09.24 # how is running one command more complicated than changing rockbox settings and copying two files neither of which you've never encountered before? 00.09.27 # DefineByte: And I don't appreciate you claiming otherwise. 00.09.56 # amiconn: Are you sure we want to replace usb with U S B? 00.10.08 Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) 00.10.18 # heh, you are silly. the pasting part is not the important one :) 00.10.21 Quit jac0b ("Leaving") 00.10.21 # delYsid: that is not true. It is accessible 00.10.33 # oops. *scrolls down* 00.10.50 # amiconn: "Ausblenddauer" -> "A U S Blendmodus" 00.10.56 # no, qt is not accessible right now. 00.11.01 # i would know if it were. 00.11.04 # you suggested attaching an old log file, i suggested attaching a newly generated support ticket :) 00.11.07 # well, I had rbutil speaking. So ...? 00.11.08 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-2d57af93150f4542) 00.11.13 # rasher: Hmm, then it should be \bUSB\b 00.11.17 # ~what with? 00.11.19 # what "PR" are they doing? 00.11.38 # amiconn: I guess, or just without the /i 00.11.38 # I tried a demo version of jaws, Thunder and NVDA. 00.11.41 # bluebrother: on windows, right? 00.11.46 # DefineByte: I suggested the installation log, and the current config. You suggested requiring they use a program that may not be installed. 00.11.48 # yep. 00.11.52 # but on linux, it is not 00.11.54 # rasher: I rather don' 00.12.01 # t rely on capitalisation 00.12.03 # well, what's spoken on linux anyway? 00.12.14 # bluebrother: gtk2 00.12.26 # and 95% of our users are most likely windows users. 00.12.29 # and how did jaws go? with it? 00.12.32 # Hmm, or perhaps in this case it's better 00.12.42 # for the formal procedure, yes, it should be installed :) 00.12.48 # * amiconn fix 00.12.52 # DefineByte: NO 00.12.58 # DefineByte: The formal procedure should NOT require extra software. 00.13.01 # I agree with Llorean 00.13.01 # well, I don't know how jaws usually goes. It worked fine as far as I can tell. 00.13.07 # and and reason for the no? :) 00.13.11 # amiconn: well, \bUSB\b would probaly work better, I suppose. But as it is now, it's broken 00.13.16 # delYsid: I'm not sure I understand. what's the problem with qt on Linux? 00.13.25 # DefineByte: I'm going to put my foot down here, and say that as the primary support contact for Rockbox, I will NOT write a formal procedure requiring any software beyond a file manager, a USB 2.0 driver, a FAT32 driver, and Rockbox on a player 00.13.33 # you seem to think i'm closing other avenues of support 00.14.03 # The informal procedure can use handy tickets generated by another piece of software. 00.14.08 # DefineByte: what's the intention? Making rbutil a real support tool would be a bunch of work too 00.14.26 # rasher: Yeah. Strange thing is - I _did_ notice the A-U-S-Blenddauer, but didn't realise it was my fault... 00.15.06 # and as I assume rbutil will help decreasing the support questions because it does everything needed for installation why put work in yet another tool? 00.15.11 # (that even limits the user) 00.16.42 # llorean suggests changing rockbox settings and copying and attaching files, all i'm saying is that the fist part if not needed and may be confusing to the user 00.17.04 # DefineByte: I never once suggested changing Rockbox settings. 00.17.16 # changing settings? In what way? And what's confusing about resetting the settings? 00.17.19 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) 00.17.57 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") 00.18.11 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection) 00.19.26 # wait, i'm slow for some reason i was seeing things from within rockbox. forget that. :D 00.20.45 # .rockbox == hidden by default of course but...we're not in rockbox 00.20.52 # xD 00.21.12 # how would you prevent users copying outdated logs? 00.21.24 # DefineByte: What outdated logs? 00.21.35 # generated by rbutil 00.21.39 # apparently 00.21.54 Quit nicktastic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.21.56 # Is their installation going to magically change SVN revisions without a new install? 00.22.18 # The RBUtil logs should be of the sort that don't become outdated until there's need for a new log anyway. 00.22.25 # how would you know if the user didn't manually copy a new .rockbox folder over? 00.22.29 # outdated logs will only occur if the user installs Rockbox manually 00.22.32 # it's a simple unzip 00.22.39 # but an average user will just not do this ;-) 00.22.42 # DefineByte: In that case, any log generated by RBUtil would be bunk too. 00.22.46 # rbutil also downloads etc. 00.23.11 # A user can falsify whatever he wants, and/or not provide useful information. 00.23.19 # how would it be bunk? scan DAP on support ticket generation 00.23.35 # DefineByte: Scan for what? If a user manually installed, their files could contain whatever they want them to. 00.23.42 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 00.24.02 # rockbox-info? the md5s of the files? anything 00.24.03 # DefineByte: As you said, the only supported installation method will be RBUtil, in this hypothetical future. If they installed by other means, it's not supported now is it? 00.24.17 # how would yoiu know that? 00.24.26 # RBUtil would tell you 00.24.32 # DefineByte: If they built on their own computer, but it's clean SVN, the MD5s may be different, and rockbox-info could be deleted or not copied over. 00.24.48 # exactly 00.24.54 # the md5s would be different 00.25.00 # rbutil would check that 00.25.21 # But it'd be a 100% valid build. 00.25.49 # If you build the same SVN source on AMD64 vs x86 versions of arm-elf-gcc, for some reason there's variance. 00.25.49 # I'm really under the impression we're discussing some rare case here. 00.25.58 # is it really worth it? 00.26.03 # but the logs would be inconsistant. RBUtil could tell the support "staff" what build the user was actually running 00.26.22 # DefineByte: How do you identify it as *anything* but "Not the current version"? 00.26.33 # DefineByte: it is absolutely NOT possible to guarantee logfile and installed build to be in sync 00.26.37 # be checking SVN? :) 00.26.42 # won't work. 00.26.42 Quit ddalton ("leaving") 00.27.03 # put the MD5s in FILES? :) 00.27.08 # DefineByte: How does that help? Build every previous build on AMD64 and x86 and take all their MD5s? 00.27.08 # besides, it isn't worth the work needed to implement such a thing 00.27.34 # what's the problem? If a user has problems just instruct him to update using rbutil. 00.27.40 # i guess if you see support as fun instead of work :D 00.27.41 Quit ender` (" The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.") 00.27.41 # the same as we do now: update first. 00.28.01 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.28.03 # afterwards we can be sure log and build match. 00.28.23 # DefineByte: Your method doesn't ensure anything, so I don't see what you're talking about. 00.28.54 # Can rockbox only be built on x86 hosts, then? 00.29.08 # Kalthare: Nope, any host you can build the appropriate cross-compilers on. 00.29.17 # So, there's that, too. 00.29.35 # it would assure you know what build the user was running. look if support isn't really something you want to put a lot of work into i understand. this is an OS community after all and i'm not sure anyone else in OS offers something similar 00.29.52 # ensure/ 00.29.56 # DefineByte: Support is something we put a lot of work into, but I don't see what that ensures. 00.30.02 Join krazykt [0] (n=kkit@140.141.29.4) 00.30.10 # DefineByte: The old log will show a non-current build, at which point we immediately tell them to update. 00.30.24 # Anyhow, I've heard gcc has at least one optimization that's slightly random in its results. 00.30.26 # DefineByte: So, how exactly does "outdated" logs provide us anything but actually useful information? 00.30.36 Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-11far66.dsl.mindspring.com) 00.30.37 Quit krazykit (Nick collision from services.) 00.30.41 Nick krazykt is now known as krazykit (n=kkit@140.141.29.4) 00.31.05 # all it would tell you is the build bootloader rev and the settings in a pre-formatted way. so the logs wouldn't have a date in them? or even a hash of the date? :) 00.31.25 # and then you un-hash the date? 00.31.30 # DefineByte: Um... build revision is more specific than date? 00.31.40 # yup 00.31.43 # now I am getting another error building a rb environment on ubuntu 00.31.46 # make[2]: sh-elf-ar: Command not found 00.31.46 # make[2]: *** [libgcc.a] Error 127 00.31.46 # make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/jacob/build/gcc/gcc' 00.31.46 DBUG Enqueued KICK jac0b 00.31.46 # make[1]: *** [stmp-multilib] Error 2 00.31.46 # make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/jacob/build/gcc/gcc' 00.31.47 *** Alert Mode level 1 00.31.47 # make: *** [all-gcc] Error 2 00.31.50 # we use svn revision currently. 00.31.51 # DefineByte: Why the heck do we need a date if we have a build revision #? 00.31.58 # jac0b: please use a pastebin for multiline pastes 00.32.00 # jac0b: Please don't spam the channel, see the channel guidelines. 00.32.07 # have you build binutils first? 00.32.10 # jac0b: are you using rockboxdev.sh ? 00.32.22 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 00.32.25 # bluebrother: yes 00.32.27 # per-file? 00.32.36 # jac0b: also installed and in PATH? 00.32.42 # DefineByte: yes. 00.32.42 # bagder: no 00.32.46 # DefineByte: Per-file what? 00.33.00 # jac0b: I'd suggest you do, it makes all that automatically for you 00.33.14 # all i'm seeing this as is formatting important information in a user friendly way. that is all 00.33.18 # why don't you just check how it currently works? By storing the svn revision we can also detect (and clean up, but that's not implemented yet) old files 00.33.22 # if it is too much work, fine 00.33.29 # DefineByte: Why do you refuse to answer questions. 00.33.47 # It's not too much work to hash a date, it's 100% silly and pointless if the SVN revision is already included. 00.33.55 # damn I should have did that from the start 00.34.00 # where are you getting this SVN rev from? 00.34.05 # It's A) Human readable and B) gives information as to the date and time the source code came from. 00.34.05 # the outdated logs? 00.34.06 # badger: thanks 00.34.09 # DefineByte: Exactly. 00.34.15 # from the server. You want me to guess it? 00.34.32 # DefineByte: If the SVN revision is not "The current SVN revision" we stop and say "Use RBUtil to update your Rockbox installation" 00.34.36 # jac0b: if you move your already downloaded tarballs to the dir rockboxdev.sh is set to use, it won't have to re-download them 00.34.37 # and if the user updates a single file manually? 00.34.57 # the average user *won't* do this. 00.34.57 # hey all 00.35.03 # DefineByte: How do you update a file to "newer than the current version" without using a custom build? 00.35.06 Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@206-159-155-246.netsync.net) 00.35.08 # did I miss anything interesting re e200r last night? 00.35.27 # DefineByte: If a user updates a file to a version other than the current version, they're lying to us when we ask if they're using an official version of Rockbox. 00.35.37 # JdGordon: this perhaps => http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/09/04/rockbox-on-the-e200r-models/ 00.35.43 # rasher: Hmm, if the pool becomes rather big, it becomes somewhat slow, at least on windows 00.35.45 # DefineByte: Such a user could readily provide a false or edited log from RBUtil anyway, so it's pointless. 00.35.45 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 00.35.45 # * bluebrother just installed gnopernicus and it segfauls upon startup :/ 00.35.50 # and if the user updates his RBUtil installed RB to a custom build? 00.36.10 # DefineByte: If they do that, they could update it to provide falsified logs, as they know we don't support custom builds. 00.36.12 # i'm really not seeing users forging support requests here 00.36.44 # DefineByte: If they're not falsifying support requests, then the question of "What if they modified a file" is irrelevant: We don't provide support on modified builds 00.37.06 # unless they forgot they altered the file? 00.37.28 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend") 00.37.30 # the rev number tells 00.37.35 # do you rally see users with perfect recall in support requests? 00.37.43 # Bagder: He's assuming they replace one file on their player, rather than a whole build 00.37.49 # oh 00.38.06 # users can always mess up, no matter what we do 00.38.11 # DefineByte: In which case unless rbutil does an md5 sum of every official Rockbox file and compares, it's pointless anyway. 00.38.12 # or hell, dleteing a file 00.38.35 Join LycoLoco_ [0] (n=Lyco@cpe-075-181-041-203.carolina.res.rr.com) 00.38.46 # besides, trying to imagine use cases that users might do is pointless imo 00.38.46 # DefineByte: If a user deletes a file, we'll know from the error generated. 00.38.48 # that's what I'm suggesting, yeah 00.38.50 # too far? 00.39.07 # Bagder: if thats the most recent news... did you miss that I got a stripped e2t version giogn which can load our own code onto the e200 and run it? 00.39.11 # well, we could write a usb stack that hides the .rockbox folder except for rbutil. 00.39.13 # and if he opens it in notepad to "fix" it? 00.39.15 # I had a nice flashing wheel last nitght :) 00.39.16 # DefineByte: If a user modifies a single file, it's highly unlikely it won't work without updating the whole build, and even then, they're compiling for themselves: They have a clue. 00.39.18 # but it's completely pointless 00.39.38 # JdGordon: that I missed. very nice! 00.39.48 # DefineByte: Honestly, at this point you're being silly. A user who opens it in notepad to fix it is probably going to remember that he did that. 00.39.52 # exactly, it won't work and then they come here 00.39.53 # and btw, missing files could easily detected from the log 00.40.10 # Bagder: wasnt really hard and linuxstb should take the credit :) 00.40.12 # what log? 00.40.15 # hehe 00.40.28 # the one generated at install time? 00.40.29 # ah, and if a user replaces his build with a custom build rockbox-info.txt will tell us 00.40.47 # yes, that one. You just need to check if all files in the log are still present ... 00.40.52 # so why can't rbutil gather that? 00.41.01 # rasher: Btw, if you need to quote some tts options, using double quotes won't work. Single quotes do work 00.41.02 # or modified :) 00.41.18 # could be filesystem corruption for all we know 00.41.18 # (e.g. for sapi: '/voice:Microsoft Mary') 00.41.19 # *argh* 00.41.30 # hell could freeze as well. 00.41.37 # or a bad USB connection 00.41.42 # DefineByte: Why do you think there's some phantom user who will modify or break a file by compiling a single file of his own, then forget he did it, and tell us his build is unmodified in the support request? 00.41.48 # now you're getting it :D 00.41.49 *** Alert Mode OFF 00.42.06 # If I may step in here for a moment. 00.42.20 # and if the USB connextion is faulty when transfering files over 1MB? 00.42.25 # who knows :) 00.42.44 # will rbutil verify the installation? 00.42.51 # and if hell freezes while the user downloads Rockbox? 00.42.57 # DefineByte: Consider this: I've been doing support for Rockbox for 2 and a half years, and have read every post in the forum during that period. I think your idea is unnecessary. 00.43.10 # In your scenario, DefineByte, as described by Llorean... So the user does just that - uses a modified build w/o knowing. (S)he will be told to update to the latest version - thus overwriting the covertly modified file. 00.43.26 # and how should "verifying" be done? 00.43.39 # md5? )_) 00.43.40 # Soap: He's hypothesizing a user that's running the current SVN version of Rockbox, then immediately modifies a file, and then forgets, all within the average of 2.5 hours between revisions 00.43.41 # without great speed penalties and stuff? 00.43.52 # well, here you have the penalty. 00.43.57 # i'm just playing with the idea : rally :D 00.44.12 # really/ 00.44.19 # * bluebrother starts considering this discussion and "idea" pointless and shuts up 00.44.38 # we are writing software for users, not idiots. 00.44.40 # hey, no skin xD 00.44.50 # have you been in the forums? 00.44.56 # :p 00.45.07 # yes. Not even only the Rockbox ones. 00.45.14 # bluebrother: your forgetting about all the ipod users... 00.45.16 # DefineByte: If the whole statistically likely ONE user this happens to in the next four years shows up, I'll happily take his support request for the benefit of enjoying the fact that users don't have to download RBUtil to provide me the necessary information to give support. 00.45.57 # they already need rbutil to install and presumably update with a fixed build 00.45.58 # JdGordon: maybe a bit ... but those will use our official install method (i.e. rbutil at some point). And everything else (i.e. those fancy custom builds) are unsupported :) 00.46.00 # Llorean: On another topic. BigMac's interest in music metadata triggering .cfg file changes reminded me of the older feature request to allow/create a hybrid playlist/config. Either by allowing config "commands" in playlists (as .m3u comments?) or allowing a config file to "launch" a playlist. (or vise versa). Why, if you recall, was this idea dismissed? 00.46.47 # DefineByte: We've covered this: RBUtil may not be usable at the time, while downloading an extracting an SVN build might be. 00.46.52 # too much possible confusion? 00.47.11 # Soap: a playlist can hardly launch anything since it is just a list of files and they can be played in shuffled order 00.47.22 # the config could be based on dirs or files though 00.47.34 # I like the idea of allowing playlists to be launched by .cfg files 00.47.36 # A LOT 00.47.43 # right, so you're getting users to manually update. i thought they wouldn't do this? 00.47.43 # but I don't think we've seen any decent implementation that doesn't spin up the disk on every track change 00.47.45 # But that's just me. 00.47.54 # DefineByte: What do you mean they wouldn't do this? 00.48.32 # Bagder: I grok that - I ment the .m3u parser reads specially formatted comment lines directing it to a .cfg file to be used. 00.48.45 # Soap: I like the idea of .cfg files being able to launch playlists, and playlists being able to include .cfg files (though absolutely only via the "queue" function, and never in a saved one) 00.48.54 # you said the average user would do this then you're encouraging them to do it. user enters forum , sees updating manually to be the mrthod for fixing problrms, they update manually, error! 00.49.04 # So you could queue a .cfg that changes the settings and launches a new playlist. 00.49.16 # I would prefer having cfg files that are dir-specific, song-specific or even metadata-specific 00.49.27 # That would allow BigMac to have a different EQ per album without changing the original tracks, etc. 00.49.30 # users will read other's posts and try to fix the problem themselvs before posing about it 00.49.30 # so that all my 422 playlists would use them 00.49.39 # DefineByte: Then users will do all kinds of crazy things 00.49.40 Quit freqmod (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.49.50 # and there's te rub 00.49.51 Quit ze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.49.57 # DefineByte: But every post will include "Use RBUtil to update" "I can't install RButil here" "Okay, please manually install by extracting..." 00.50.06 # how do you recognise a crazy user when they make a support requst? 00.50.31 # DefineByte: So, are you suggesting we deny support request to people who can't use RBUtil? Because either your method or mine both require manual installs... 00.50.35 # SO I don't see why you even bring this up 00.50.39 # Bagder: You mean as in a .cfg file which says "When playing from directory X use settings set 1 and when playing from directory Y use settings set 2"? 00.51.01 Nick BigBambi is now known as SherlockHolmes (n=alex@86.66.198.24) 00.51.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.51.04 # Soap: yes, probably like "dir.cfg" places in the directory, always found and used if present 00.51.07 # placed 00.51.13 # I'm suggesting the preferred method. that is all :) 00.51.15 # well, you don't need to install rbutil. It's a single binary. 00.51.17 Nick SherlockHolmes is now known as BigBambi (n=alex@86.66.198.24) 00.51.27 # but it might not work for everyone. 00.51.40 # DefineByte: Then arguing against my method with a point that's equally true for your method is silly. Next challenge? 00.51.50 # and probably a [song].cfg for a cfg for a particular song 00.52.04 # what's is your method again? 00.52.13 # for metadata-specific, it would require a special dir for those configs 00.52.17 # DefineByte: Not requiring RBUtil. 00.52.25 # I see, Bagder. Thus the problem of spinning up the drive every track change as a relevant .cfg file is needed to be looked for? 00.52.42 # the cfg files would be checked for, and loaded when the songs are loaded 00.52.55 # require? nay, just prefer :) 00.52.58 # metadata-on-buffer... 00.53.05 # I was getting to that. 00.53.16 # ;) 00.53.17 # DefineByte: I consider making it a part of the formal process a "requirement" for formal support. 00.53.27 # if it's outside the scope of RBUtil that's fine :) 00.53.54 # formal procedures can't have optional steps? blimey 00.54.02 # DefineByte: As I've said, I will fight tooth and nail to have the formal process involve the use of any program to make the request. 00.54.15 # DefineByte: If it's an optional step, why not just leave it out? 00.54.31 # because it's easier for the user 00.55.17 # natually, only if they alrady have rbutil 00.55.23 Quit LycoLoco (Connection timed out) 00.55.27 # which they should :D 00.55.33 Join ze [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com) 00.56.03 # DefineByte: Running a program, then attaching one file located somewhere on your computer, vs attaching two files located somewhere on your computer are about equally difficult I'd say 00.56.07 Join Xero [0] (n=xero9364@c-24-126-30-244.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) 00.56.18 # Does Rockbox work with iPod Shuffle? 00.56.19 # I'd rather have one set process. 00.56.23 # Or must you have a screen? 00.56.37 # Xero: It doesn't require a screen, but the iPod Shuffle is not supported. Nobody has ported to it. 00.56.39 # but the user would knoe where the one file is but not the two 00.56.44 # :( :( :( 00.56.47 # DefineByte: How do they *not* know where the two are? 00.56.53 # Sadness are upon me. 00.57.05 # Xero: I'll sell you a Nano. 00.57.07 # Xero: sell it and buy a unit rockbox runs on... :-) 00.57.19 # Soap: How much for a Nano? 00.57.23 # DefineByte: Are they magically going to psychically know where the one from RButil is? Or will they have to read it from the screen somewhere? Is it harder for them to read the folder name on their player? 00.57.33 Join RudMan_ [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net) 00.58.01 # rbutil can't tell tem? i thought c++ was turing complete (or what ever the language in use is)/ 00.58.43 # DefineByte: Yes, so they read it on the screen somewhere. 00.58.58 # DefineByte: And the place where they find out what the formal support process is, *that* can't tell them where the files are on the device? 00.59.22 Quit RudMan_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.59.32 Join RudMan_ [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net) 00.59.38 # i see, you're thinking of them actually reading your guidlines. surely your experiance tells you otherwise? 00.59.58 # DefineByte: If they don't read the guidelines, how do they know to even *run* RBUtil to create the ticket? 01.00.05 # they post request, you say run rbutil, they attach file done. 01.00.13 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01.00.18 # They post request, I link instructions, they attach files, done. 01.00.21 # I'll pay $10 to the first person, (DefineByte or Llorean) to stop this conversation. 01.00.27 # Alright, I'm done. 01.00.37 # * pixelma gets bored 01.00.45 # you want that check, cash, or donation in your name? 01.00.47 # they read instructions? riiiight. :p 01.00.47 Quit jac0b (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.01.14 # Soap: I'll put that $10 up to definebyte if he spends one year reading every post in our forums and acclimatizing himself with our userbase. Otherwise, keep it, or donate it, your choice. :) 01.01.23 # i guess you could send the leather bound version through the mail 01.01.25 Quit mikeT ("-") 01.01.39 # Soap: you are always in here flaunting your money around! ;) 01.01.43 # haha 01.02.13 # i know you like to think they read them but...they really don't. 01.02.30 # most people see the length of te page and skip it 01.03.03 # so we should adjust to the lowest common denominator? 01.03.10 # this isnt the US school system... 01.03.15 # where as one sentence in a post specifically directed at them they're more liekly to heed 01.03.49 # the idea is to shiled you guys from them :) 01.03.56 # shield/ 01.03.58 # DefineByte: I repeat, I've spent two years dealing with our userbase, I know how much they do or don't read. Much better than you have any idea, I assume. It's better to force them to read, as they'll have to at some point anyway. 01.04.06 # motherfucker 01.04.14 # I just made the donation and you start back up. 01.04.21 # Soap: Sorry, that's my last comment on it. 01.04.40 # force? how's that work? 01.05.04 # i guess you could put some hidden works in their and require them and registration 01.05.13 # DefineByte: That would be off topic for this channel, it's about Rockbox not about user herding, I humbly request you read the guidelines. 01.05.49 # Soap: you might want to make a donation to the profanity jar too =P 01.05.51 # i've read them but they're a bit long to digest 01.06.55 # i'm just following the leader :D 01.07.03 # DefineByte: If you don't follow them you'll be asked to leave, and eventually banned. Same goes for the forums, and in both we require the manual being read. 01.07.07 # one of the leaders is Llorean 01.07.10 # I have no problem with not coddling users who refuse to read the manual. :) 01.07.15 # DefineByte: ever play lemmings...? 01.07.31 # DefineByte: It was a subtle hint as to how we force them to read it: They get no help until they've showed that they have. 01.07.38 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") 01.07.41 # yeah, i loved that game. is there a timer on me? ^^ 01.07.43 Join Merthsoft [0] (n=Shaun@140.141.22.103) 01.07.45 # * chrisjs169 notices Llorean isn't on the access list 01.07.51 # chrisjs169: Nope. 01.07.54 # Good thing too. 01.07.54 # DefineByte: you miss my point... 01.08.05 # Llorean: Using sunday's version fixed the database error, btw 01.08.15 # Llorean, haha 01.08.41 # Merthsoft: Good to hear, it looks like there was a bug added in the ID3 handling, or so I hear. 01.08.41 # i didn't think it was important scorche. 01.08.58 # Ah, was it fixed do you know? 01.09.03 # i thought we were talking about rbutil anyway. my mistake 01.09.06 # DefineByte: the point is, lemmings always follow the leader...right off cliffs to their death 01.09.08 Quit ompaul ("night night etc") 01.09.18 # no they don't :p 01.09.22 # Merthsoft: I believe so. 01.09.48 # just use a blocker or something 01.10.04 # Merthsoft: not that I know of 01.10.05 # Merthsoft: I may be wrong. 01.11.03 # ok 01.12.26 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@75-128-122-8.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com) 01.13.40 Quit bluebrother ("leaving") 01.13.46 # "DefineByte: the point is, lemmings always follow the leader...right off cliffs to their death"oh, i get it. you're saying llorean is trying to rile me so i get myself banned. heh 01.13.56 # uh..no 01.14.01 # :p 01.14.12 # notice how nobody here is even op'd.. 01.14.42 # if is getting off topic now you guys. tsk 01.15.00 # so is your quite 01.15.21 # *quote 01.15.30 # how about lets both just hush and wait for a new topic... 01.15.36 # Funny... I can now build voice files for all my targets in less time (for 1 language) that a rockbox build for a single target... 01.15.42 # hey, i didn't say i'm a pillar of virtue 01.15.56 # DefineByte: hush about the issue 01.15.59 # amiconn: I always could on Linux 01.16.07 # amiconn: Oh, *all* of them at once. 01.16.08 # nevermind 01.16.16 # i'm trying to think of a new topic now 01.16.25 # then do it silently 01.16.27 # I could build five with use of the pool in less time, on a first run, though 01.17.45 # okay, what could be a reason for a plugin to fail, supposing that there are no coding errors in the plugin itself 01.18.00 # to compile/ 01.18.16 # DefineByte: If Rockbox compiles fine without the changes, and fails to compile with the changes, there are coding errors. 01.18.35 # rockbox compiles just fine 01.18.46 # it's just the plugin that doesn't work 01.18.49 Quit obo ("bye") 01.19.10 # DefineByte, what plugin 01.19.41 # basically if i modify the disktidy plugin at all (:p) the plugin compiles fine but won't run and is unusually small 01.20.24 Quit atsea-68 (Remote closed the connection) 01.20.55 # do any other files need to be modified first? 01.21.12 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@207-172-204-33.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) 01.21.36 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@129.120.244.118) 01.22.47 # DefineByte: If there's just a name.c file for the plugin, it's rare that you'll need to modify other files unless you're changing the plugin api. 01.23.42 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-0708f353f97868eb) 01.23.45 # I'm just trying to modify the disktidy plugin to clean ipod files 01.23.48 Quit atsea-68 (SendQ exceeded) 01.24.27 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-1d578ed7e3be62c6) 01.24.53 Join annulus_ [0] (n=ap@h214n2fls31o286.telia.com) 01.25.37 # SendQ too low. 01.26.02 # just to try i modified the TIDY_MAC function to delete iPod_Config instead of .DS_Store and it compiles find but when i try to run it it errors 01.26.12 # fine/ 01.26.39 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@e178112038.adsl.alicedsl.de) 01.26.41 # -it 01.29.28 # isn't the folder name ipod_control? 01.29.40 # I don't have either of my iPods in front of me at this time, or I would check. 01.29.41 # * XavierGr sighs 01.29.56 # yeah it is, i can assure you the code had the right name :D 01.30.00 # another review of rockbox that stresses the uglyness of the defualt gui 01.31.47 # ah the bain of OS. 01.32.44 # bane/ 01.34.34 # well, i'm stating to fall asleep at the wheel here (starting?). it was fun chatting with oyu. night night. 01.34.38 Part DefineByte 01.35.23 # Hm. I take it rbutil doesn't support custom builds? 01.36.54 Join DarkStylist [0] (n=TheAvata@c213-100-135-215.swipnet.se) 01.37.18 # hey guys 01.37.40 # hey dude 01.37.43 # anything like rockbox for my technaxx musicman easy player? 01.38.23 # its one of those neat usb mp3 systems with sd cards 01.38.49 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) 01.38.56 Quit _jhMikeS_ (Nick collision from services.) 01.39.00 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 01.40.18 Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@rockbox/developer/austriancoder) 01.40.43 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) 01.41.08 # and 1 aaa battery 01.41.43 # dont think soo.... 01.42.06 # im just a geust here so dont take my opinion 01.43.23 # not to be dismissive, DarkStylist, but Rockbox doesn't run on it. This being a Rockbox channel there is little chance of learning about things outside Rockbox here. Your best chance is simply to google the player's name/model and perhaps the word "firmware" to see what pops up. That being said, Rockbox is one of a VERY few MP3 player replacement firmwares. 01.43.45 # Ok, I am planning on working on the idea that was being discussed earlier of being able to load playlists from config files or Bagder's ideas, but I would like to get an opinion on what the developers think the best implementation would be 01.44.06 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 01.45.16 # austriancoder is on :D 01.47.03 Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B85A.dip.t-dialin.net) 01.47.52 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.48.07 # i noticed there are quite a few usbstick players with same firmware 01.48.21 # always same Gui 01.48.39 # i just never learned the firmware name 01.48.56 # and googeling it helps not 01.49.37 # have any idea of what firmware it is? it always starts with Welcome 01.50.40 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 01.50.46 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 01.50.54 # DarkStylist: Not here please 01.51.41 # ok 01.52.39 # * chrisjs169 wonders how many players start with Welcome 01.52.55 # * xDragonforce16x has no idea 01.53.41 # almost all of them, the think the player has to be polite to its user? 01.53.47 # lol 01.55.18 # peace out everybody 01.55.28 # howabout these chinese mp4 players? 01.55.33 Join perplexity [0] (i=heh21609@dxb-as74784.alshamil.net.ae) 01.55.37 Part xDragonforce16x 01.55.49 # i got a noname one saying ipod on it from china 01.56.07 # DarkStylist: Rockbox only runs on the players explicitly mentioned on the front page of the site. 01.56.27 # yea but 01.56.50 # what if my model is based on one off of the site? 01.57.01 # ONLY. 01.57.32 # If your player has the exact same hardware internally, set up in the exact same way, then in theory it would run. Looking like the same player, though, does not make it the same player. 01.58.22 # Llorean: yeah but they printed "ipod" on it! 01.59.01 # AFAIK, a lot of the knockoffs use the s1mp3 hardware. 01.59.41 Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection) 02.00.21 Part Merthsoft ("Leaving") 02.04.07 # yea s1mp3 os thats it 02.05.09 Part pixelma 02.05.53 Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) 02.06.05 Join BrickedE200R [0] (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-22bf0c48810be540) 02.06.09 # help! 02.06.18 # 'i broke my ipod 02.06.22 # that bad? 02.07.05 # i followed the instructions and used e200tool on my nano 2g and now it wont turn on 02.07.47 Nick BrickedE200R is now known as JdGordon (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-22bf0c48810be540) 02.07.50 # ;P 02.07.57 # linuxstb: you still round? 02.08.19 # * Llorean wonders if there's a way to trigger manufacturing mode on iPods. 02.08.48 # the emergency disk mode? 02.08.54 # looks like there is a limit to how much code we can copy onto the snasa with e2t :( 02.09.29 # hcs: No, on the e200 there's "manufacturing mode" which is much lower level than that. 02.09.37 # hi JdGordon, I have a bug for you (in the settings system) 02.10.22 # Cancelling live settings doesn't work: it displays 'Cancelled' but does actually accept the setting. 02.11.24 # can you stick it on flyspray? im at uni and giong to forget about it otherwise.... 02.17.13 # whats the easiest way to add to binary size without adding code? 02.17.19 # will a const array do it? 02.17.36 Join kkurbjun [0] (n=kkurbjun@c-24-9-90-142.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 02.17.51 # Add to binary size? 02.17.56 # yeah 02.18.21 # trying to figure out the largest binary we can send to the sansa 02.18.52 # argh 02.19.01 # linuxstb: You broke usb on the player 02.19.11 # Looks like the logic is reversed 02.19.53 # Ah, yes: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/sh/archos/player/usb-player.c?r1=14599&r2=14600 02.21.42 # amiconn: any ideas how to add bin size easily? 02.21.57 # gc is optimizing my unused arrays out 02.22.29 # __attribute__((used)) 02.22.31 # (iirc) 02.23.44 # nup :( 02.23.59 # Why not just use the first element of the array for something? 02.24.07 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@modemcable061.67-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) 02.27.54 Join Deibeed [0] (i=63f694d3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-211d4df76239a7cc) 02.28.21 # Hey guys? 02.29.49 # It's often best just to ask a question, if you have one. 02.30.02 # I was just trying out Rockbox on my Ipod Nano 1st Generation, and I got an error while uploading database. 02.30.18 # There is a known problem with creating the database right now. 02.30.25 # It says: Data abort at 000457E4 02.31.04 # So, I simply can't upload music onto it? 02.31.23 # you can, the database just won't work right now. 02.31.49 # So how do I do that? 02.31.55 # drag and drop. 02.32.00 Part Llorean 02.32.07 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B094.dip.t-dialin.net) 02.32.19 # if you use iTunes to sync normally, however, the original firmware will NOT be able to see the stuff you've simply dragged and dropped on the player 02.32.42 # JdGordon: volatile, maybe? 02.33.00 # changed my tact.. and it seems to be working now 02.33.11 # * JdGordon giong to break his e200 usb port ... 02.33.18 # Hmm. I don't use the iTunes to sync my ipod. Is there some other way? 02.33.35 # uh, how do you normally put music on your ipod? 02.33.51 # Import to Library, then drag into the Ipod itself. 02.34.13 # jhMikeS: hey, yuo round? 02.34.23 # which is using itunes to sync the music... 02.34.31 # So, do it again? 02.34.35 # no 02.35.14 # So what do I do? 02.35.21 # the way you do it, both the apple firmware and rockbox can use the files. drag-and-drop from explorer or finder will allow rockbox to see it but not the original firmware 02.35.27 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02.35.30 Quit qweru (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.35.44 # Deibeed, you could downgrade to a previous build that doesn't display this problem. 02.35.55 # All right. Thanks a lot. 02.36.01 # then, you could simply wait til the problem is resolved 02.37.37 # JdGordon: Hey, yes. I've even been around but I don't talk much when doing complicated work. 02.37.51 # JdGordon: I doubt that you will break the port (assuming it's a standard mini-B port) 02.38.28 # Back when doing the Ondio port, I plugged/unplugged loadsa times for several weeks 02.38.35 # jhMikeS: how much of the sansa ata driver can be stripped out? we need a working ata driver for the e200r installer, but it seems we are very limited with the aount of code e200tool can send across... 02.38.39 # amiconn: its nto standard... 02.38.54 Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) 02.39.14 # JdGordon: does it require any SD support? 02.39.20 # JdGordon: I guess e200tool loads the stuff into iram, probably minus some used area 02.39.38 # jhMikeS: no, just need enough to write to the internal disk 02.39.44 # write only? 02.39.51 # ... and read 02.40.11 # ok...lemme have a read over 02.41.10 # you don't need the fancy fast read function so the slow version could be used for one 02.41.19 # Any hints how to reproduce the crash in the db init? 02.41.42 # I tried both on mini G2 and video (G5.5/80), but got no crash (latest svn) 02.42.12 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.14.30) 02.42.35 # JdGordon: I suppose I could just pastebin a stripped-down verions. it shouldn't be much trouble. 02.43.10 # guys since svn 146XXX i get data abort everytime i go to initialise database on my h10 [20GB] please help 02.43.22 Quit hcs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.43.24 # dont worry about it now.. just wanted to know if a stripped one could be dnoe 02.43.27 # JdGordon: Did you find the upper limit for the transferable size? 02.43.36 # not yet 02.44.03 # I wonder what e200tool does... I would guess we'd have at least half the iram available 02.44.08 # (that'd be 64KB) 02.44.37 # amiconn are the latest builds working perfet on ur h10 02.44.54 Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") 02.45.08 # Depends on the definition of "perfect" 02.45.48 # 64K is too large... 02.46.03 # although, i thought 10k was too big before also :p 02.46.15 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) 02.47.00 # does database initialise & also d songs play instantly or there are hang up sometimes? 02.47.25 # 65535, 65536 doesnt 02.47.35 # so maybe we dont need to be careful with the size 02.48.21 # i get data abort everytime i initialise database, & also everytime i start my player with the earlier builds, somewhr cloase to 14577 or so i had my player hang on "loading" 02.48.39 # DB init works 02.49.02 # sending a 28118 binary doesnt work... but sending 1100bytes followed by 30k of random data does... 02.49.10 # amiconn: then why do i get these data aborts , has the bootloader changed? 02.49.16 # Whether it would hang occasionally I don't know. The H10 is not my main target 02.49.30 # It didn't hang in a quick check 02.50.02 # amiconn: you using a 20 GB right 02.50.09 # nope, 6GB 02.50.43 # None of my 4 PP targets crashes on db init 02.50.46 # amiconn: then how do i confirm with someone's 20GB , there is a problem this is definate, 02.51.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.51.15 # I don't want confirmation (there already are multiple reports), I want a way to reproduce... 02.51.48 # secondly the usb detection patch was added today, when i connect my usb it shows nothin on the screen of my player , pressing the power button boots into rockbox, disk mode is no where? 02.51.48 Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 02.52.37 # amiconn: confirm, data init for the first time, gives data abort at 045XXX 02.52.53 # That doesn't help me 02.52.58 # has the h10 bootloader changed 02.53.19 # Not that I know of 02.53.48 # well, ill just wait then 02.54.08 # What svn revision are you running? 02.54.16 # how does the usb detection thin work, just plug the usb & let it go to disk mode or any button combos? 02.54.32 # 14604-14614 all the same 02.55.02 # Yeah, no relevant change concerning this problem 02.55.24 # 14577 was better , DB init worked , but at random times, while startin up player & playing a track caused the player to hang at "loading..." 02.55.30 Quit Rob2222 (Success) 02.56.00 # I wonder what's different here then 02.56.12 # no clue 02.56.47 # DB init works like a charm (with r14607) on 2nd gen, mini 2nd gen, video 5.5th gen, and iriver H10/6GB 02.57.14 # well, im clearly stuck up with something, no clue why? 02.57.15 # 3 of those have dircache enabled, one does not (the mini) 02.57.17 Part Deibeed 02.57.42 # i'm building r14615 now for sansa, i'll see if i get a data abort too 02.58.05 # k thanks a lot, ill take a kip & return c ya 02.59.03 Quit AceNik ("bye guys have fun , enjoy !!!!!") 03.00.07 # no, no problem with db init on the sansa either. 03.00.07 # JdGordon: quicky strip-down. I didn't pull the SDHC cases but I'm sure those could go too. http://rafb.net/p/37yYmd61.html 03.00.30 # blah, he disappeared 03.05.56 Join bagawk_ [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) 03.08.05 Join sambolina3 [0] (i=48495f23@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-269b2bb354032dce) 03.08.53 Quit cmvjk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.11.06 Quit atsea-68 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.14.26 Quit sambolina3 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 03.16.02 Quit RoC_MasterMind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.16.19 Join RoC_MasterMind [0] (n=Free@c-66-177-39-225.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 03.16.34 Quit bagawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.22.04 Quit My_Sic (Connection reset by peer) 03.23.16 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@modemcable061.67-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) 03.42.01 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) 03.42.05 Quit kkurbjun (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.55.35 Part DarkStylist 03.57.33 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 04.02.10 Quit advcomp2019 ("Leaving") 04.06.04 Quit hcs ("Leaving.") 04.07.19 Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@66.172.231.192) 04.09.13 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 04.14.09 Join perrikwp [0] (i=9821616e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5c0cd1a3b14e89df) 04.22.35 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 04.23.46 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) 04.27.19 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@c-71-205-0-132.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 04.30.31 Join gunner [0] (i=446d1c6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-65b73d1e587e6290) 04.34.21 Quit Kalthare ("Leaving.") 04.36.35 # some1 mind helpin me with a problem on an ipod nano? 04.36.57 # ask the question, please don't ask to ask. 04.37.24 # though such shorthand as "some1" is severly frowned upon. 04.37.35 # well i put rockbox on it and it froze during 1st song playback and the reset wont work... 04.37.37 # see the channel topic. 04.37.48 # On the iPods reset always works. 04.38.03 # sorry i just need to type quick 04.38.44 # its stuck with back light on and minimal information on the screen 04.39.02 # I don't mean to be blunt, but reset will always work. Toggle the hold switch to the on (red) and back to the off positions. 04.39.30 # then Menu + Select, and hold those buttons (without a wiggle in your fingers) for 30 seconds, and it will reset. 04.41.43 # still nothing and i know its supposed to but it wont 04.42.47 # well thank you but i have to go now 04.43.09 Quit gunner ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 04.44.24 Join puzzlet [0] (n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168) 04.51.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.05.00 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 05.06.07 Quit bb (Nick collision from services.) 05.06.12 Join bb_ [0] (n=bb@unaffiliated/bb) 05.11.18 Quit RudMan_ (Remote closed the connection) 05.15.22 Quit RoC_MasterMind ("Leaving") 05.21.17 Join RudMan [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net) 05.23.42 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 05.27.40 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 05.35.31 Join Hellmark [0] (n=hellmark@63.77.33.63) 05.36.10 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 05.36.25 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 05.36.50 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 05.37.04 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 05.38.57 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-9403cb6fa024494b) 05.39.47 Quit atsea-68 (SendQ exceeded) 05.43.18 Quit BigMac ("Konversation terminated!") 05.43.27 # Quick question. I am looking at getting a player that supports Rockbox, and two of the ones I am looking at are the iPod Mini and the 5-6gb iRiver H10. Reason for such, is that the microdrives can be swapped out for compact flash, which would help with battery life. On the Mini, under rockbox, you have to patch it if you run a compact flash card, due to it crashing when trying to put the drive into sleep mode. I am curious if this is an issue on the H1 05.43.29 # 0 as well 05.47.42 # Yes, I'm fairly confident it would be, though I don't believe anyone has tried 05.50.52 Join Kalthare [0] (n=kalthare@c-67-169-224-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 05.51.20 # Hellmark, are you looking for a digital audio player that is flash based that can have rockbox on it? 05.52.16 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 05.56.44 # advcomp2019, I mostly want one that I can rebuild if needed. 05.57.03 # thats why I like the mini. pretty much everything is replaceable and easy to get parts for 05.57.12 Join webguest64 [0] (i=4679eaed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2c9748fe1216f686) 05.57.24 # right now i have a Creative Zen NX, screen broke, and I am SOL 05.57.33 # doesn't have to be flash based 05.58.04 # Found a bug in Gigabeat F latest build. when viewing credits the the player shuts down 05.59.06 # also, don't really need any frills, like video and what not. 05.59.56 # Say, uh.. any chance someone could give me an executive overview of how Rockbox determines the audio length of an MP3 file? 06.00.20 # Hellmark, well, most of the targets support video anyway, but you don't have to use it. 06.00.33 # krazykit, I know 06.00.50 # but if I can forgo that option and save a few bucks, why not 06.00.56 # have you considered the sansa at all? i'm not sure how easy it is to get parts, though 06.01.09 # look at the e200 is a nice player that rockbox works on 06.01.14 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.02.00 # I've got some MP3s that most software, including Rockbox, vastly overestimates the length of. 06.02.14 # Kalthare: This usually means bad information in the header 06.02.23 Join cmvjk [0] (n=blah@223.34.143.24.cm.sunflower.com) 06.02.37 # krazykit, from what I can tell, no real replacement of parts. 06.03.10 # i mean, i'm sure you can get refurbs and broken ones for dirt cheap on ebay 06.03.14 # Llorean: But isn't an MP3 header, like, two bytes long? I don't think there's much in that that could be gotten wrong without breaking playback... 06.03.28 # yea krazykit 06.04.03 # Llorean. when viewing credits in my Gigabeat F.. the player shuts down ..latest build 06.05.53 # Kalthare: For VBR files, you need another header to be able to get right length. For CBR if you simply know the bitrate and file length, you know. 06.06.16 # webguest64, when does it shut down? i'm displaying the credits just fine here. also, what revision, specifically? 06.06.52 # Llorean: Ah, okay, that's probably exactly it, then. Thank you. ...Know of any programs that fix broken VBR headers? 06.07.28 # Kalthare: Try the "vbrfix" plugin in Rockbox 06.07.52 # Llorean: Thanks, I'll try that :) 06.08.09 # krazykit, from what I've seen of disassembly photos, most stuff seems to be soldered on 06.09.08 Quit webguest64 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 06.09.56 # Hellmark, here is a site that will fix it for you --> http://www.cherryfusion.com/ 06.10.06 # for* 06.10.28 Join webguest64 [0] (i=4679eaed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-723580930990139c) 06.10.47 # this monitor is making me see things 06.11.09 # webguest64, what revision are you using? i can run the credits without error on my gigabeat. 06.11.22 # advcomp2019, prefer fixing things myself if I can 06.11.32 # sept 04 /07 build gives the credits shutdown issue to gigabeat F 06.12.10 # webguest64, look in system -> rockbox info and tell us the r number 06.13.03 # ok Hellmark 06.13.27 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-461923b7290d79e1) 06.14.59 # ok now its not doing it..... 06.15.55 # r14602-070904 06.16.36 # that's not the latest, you're 14 revisions behind ;-) 06.16.37 Nick bagawk_ is now known as bagawk (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) 06.16.39 # Llorean: That fixed it perfectly. Thank you again! 06.17.11 # have to push power button lightly though to get back to menu 06.17.49 Join bluey- [0] (n=bluey@dslb-088-074-020-014.pools.arcor-ip.net) 06.18.48 # how can that be if I just download latest build this morning\ 06.19.11 # webguest64: Because there are constant updates? 06.23.19 Quit webguest64 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 06.29.15 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.) 06.29.18 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) 06.30.39 Quit RudMan (Remote closed the connection) 06.32.05 Quit bluey- ("Leaving") 06.32.21 Join ptw419 [0] (i=ptw419@66-90-157-228.dyn.grandenetworks.net) 06.48.35 Join Jangari [0] (n=Jangari@ppp121-44-121-118.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net) 06.51.12 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.57.21 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 06.57.35 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 07.01.33 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") 07.04.14 Part rvvs89 ("Cycling channel") 07.07.10 Join rvvs89 [0] (n=rvvs89@unaffiliated/rvvs89) 07.08.02 Join grndslm [0] (n=grndslm@24-116-87-97.cpe.cableone.net) 07.08.10 Join grndslm_ [0] (n=grndslm@24-116-87-97.cpe.cableone.net) 07.08.12 Quit grndslm_ (Client Quit) 07.20.25 Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) 07.28.06 Join eigma [0] (i=rlisurtb@CABLE-206-188-76-21.cia.com) 07.37.41 Join darkless [0] (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk) 07.38.41 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 07.38.56 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 07.39.29 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 07.39.45 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 07.39.56 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.92.36) 07.41.59 # guys bug remains still on the h10[20GB] data abort at 0045XXX after evert data init, this can be observed after svn revision no.14577 , thats the last one i was using, after which i switched to 14614 07.43.49 # anyone have any tips on how to get svn merge to work w/ the gigabeat-s branch? 07.44.22 # AceNik: Yes, you'll see there haven't been any commits relating to metadata since the bug was identified... 07.44.41 # The bug isn't identified yet 07.45.01 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.45.04 # amiconn: I thought it was identified... someone said something about and ID3 change of some sort causing it? 07.45.08 # llorean:i guess would the id3.c help in anyway, cause i suspect that file only has changed since then ? 07.45.09 # If someone could tell me how to reproduce... it doesn't happen on any of my arm based targets 07.45.13 # so far i have : svn merge http://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk/ http://svn.rockbox.org/rockbo 07.45.13 # x/branches/gigabeat-s/ 07.45.20 # ya thats what made me suspect it 07.45.22 # also 07.45.39 # amiconn: For most people, it's just "initialize the database and it happens after anywhere from <50 to >1000 songs" 07.45.41 # amiconn: somehow please get it to be tried on a 20GB 07.45.48 # AceNik: Please don't pester. 07.46.00 # ok 07.46.34 # AceNik: It is reported on ipod video as well. And I tried on iPod video G5.5/80, Mini G2, H10 6GB and ipod 2nd gen. DB init works on all 4 without crash 07.46.38 # amiconn: The data abort location seems to be fairly consistent too. 07.46.49 # It's also reported on the Sansa 07.47.35 Join tehxed [0] (i=bleh@CPE0015e96bee93-CM0012254225c8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) 07.47.36 # I suspect that it might be related to what tagging format(s) are used on the device. All my MP3s are now id3v2 *only*... 07.47.57 # Is there any way to turn off ID3 tags? 07.48.03 # And just get the file name.mp3 to appear? 07.48.07 # amiconn: i have my mp3's tagged with both in winamp 07.48.16 # I'm trying mine. I've got a horrible motley collection of file formats. 07.48.29 # tehxed: You cannot "turn off" tags as they are in your files 07.48.50 # I think he wants to not have them be displayed 07.48.52 # amiconn: When I say "turn off" I mean stop them from being displayed 07.48.57 # Yeah, Hellmark got the idea 07.49.02 # AceNik, i also can't get the crash on the sansa 07.49.08 # You could either remove all tags from your files if you don't want them at all, or you can make your own wps that ignores tags 07.49.29 # amiconn: I've removed the tags, I'm not sure how to go about making my own wps 07.49.38 # Is there any tutorial anywhere that could help me out with that? 07.50.58 # http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToWPSMaking 07.51.34 # Thank you 07.52.44 # Llorean: Do *you* get that crash? 07.53.27 # This is in initializing the tag database, yes? 07.53.41 # amiconn: The only target I have available right now is my H120. 07.53.52 # AH, bummer 07.54.28 # * amiconn tries on archos, as the SH1 is also algnment sensitive 07.55.34 # It would be helpful to know the exact address of the crash and then have the build dir of that build available 07.55.47 # (for checking the .map and disassembling the respective .o) 07.55.58 # Well, I didn't get a crash on my 5.5G/30GB, and I've got a lot of different types of files. 07.56.13 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) 07.56.42 # address keeps varying in the range 0045XXX 07.57.10 # identify nickel6 07.57.12 # AceNik: He asked for an exact one. 07.57.24 # 0045085 07.57.29 # Just the address isn't very helpful, even if it's exact 07.58.29 # 0x45xxx is most probably somewhere in tagcache.o, that's all I can tell without further information 08.00.37 # No crash on archos either 08.01.45 Part rvvs89 ("Cycling channel") 08.01.50 Join perplexity [0] (i=heh4714@dxb-as74784.alshamil.net.ae) 08.02.17 # amiconn: Do your tags have comments? The most likely culprit would at least *seem* to be http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/id3.c?r1=14593&r2=14594 08.02.41 Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) 08.02.43 # *very* few files have comments iirc 08.03.00 # who is james83? the svn user name. 08.03.05 # yo 08.03.07 # I gotta say 08.03.16 # rockbox has saved my 08.03.19 # ipod so many times 08.03.35 # Taking battery life issues on some of the players (like the ipod) into account, what players do you prefer? 08.05.14 # re: that H10 bug during tag init, it happened to my ipod 5g with yesterday's release as well 08.05.47 # Llorean: Eurgh. Many thanks for pointing me there again. Yesterday I looked at that myself, but couldn't see the problem, although it's soo obvious.... 08.05.50 # same crash, data abort 045XXX 08.05.58 # i went back and found a previous build, probably about a week ago, and it's fine now 08.06.17 Part toffe82_ 08.06.18 # ddalton: James Espinoza 08.06.24 # short* s = (short*) string; <== ouchouchouch on alignment sensitive targets! 08.07.35 # Huh. What would that do? 08.07.46 # It works if the COMM tag itself is at an even address in memory, and crashes if not 08.08.16 # Ohh. Ouch. 08.09.10 # is that why? 08.09.17 # fucken comments tag 08.09.26 # Well, both arm and SH1 don't like unaligned pointers. But a char* (or void* in that case) isn't necessary aligned 08.09.51 # it's probably worth using anapod or something to clear the comments box from every tag 08.10.04 # better fix the code imho 08.12.18 # sure 08.12.18 # Aha, and it can only happen if there are COMM tags in UTF-16. That's why I didn't get any crashes 08.12.18 # My tags are all either iso8859-1 or utf-8 08.12.18 # oh well, my week-old build seems fine 08.12.18 Part puzzlet 08.13.10 # The fix should be fairly simple. The cast to short* isn't necessary as the important point here is just to check pairs of bytes. 08.13.22 Part AceNik 08.13.54 Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy15.netz.sbs.de) 08.15.35 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 08.16.09 # unfortunately something like while (*s++ || *s++) { } isn't well defined. It needs a few more lines 08.16.17 # LinusN: are you around? 08.16.52 # yes 08.17.11 # Do you think p7682 should be committed? 08.19.38 Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@chello213047086216.5.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) 08.19.48 # ddalton: i think so, but i'd like to investigate the need for the longer syncsplash delay 08.19.48 Part norbusan 08.20.11 # LinusN: do you have an ipod? 08.20.15 # yes 08.20.25 # do you have time to change it and test? 08.20.41 # because I did this for a friend and I don't have an ipod myself. 08.20.44 # i'll have a look ati it 08.20.50 # or a player with a wake up rtc 08.21.48 # also can you make sure the voice says the right infomation? so when the alarm is set? It is just a bit hard for me because I can't read the screen. But I don't know why it wouldn't 08.23.23 # Anyone experiencing the crash on db init who wants to test? Or should I commit right away? 08.25.15 # amiconn: commit it 08.25.22 # amiconn: If you're reasonably sure, I'd say go ahead and commit. We seem to be getting at least one bug report every 2 hours, if not shorter periods, from people not searching first. 08.26.21 # what are the details about it and how to make it happen? 08.27.00 # LinusN: If I create patches that call the talk functions will this be ok when the proper fix comes in? 08.27.12 # any sansa owner looking into FS#7692? 08.27.12 # so should I be creating patches now that voice the plugins? 08.27.37 # * jhMikeS will peek over at FS#7692 08.27.42 # ddalton: i think we should find a solution to the voice file problem first 08.27.53 # jhMikeS: I'm pretty sure I identified the problem. You need (1) an alignment sensitive target (2) mp3 file(s) with comment tags using UTF-16 08.27.55 # LinusN: I don't think any of the Rockbox Sansa owners here actually experience the garble issue. 08.28.09 # LinusN: Committed. 08.28.14 # amiconn: goodie 08.28.19 # LinusN: but if I use the functions provide in plugin.h won't it all just work once we modify those functions? 08.28.19 # amiconn: ah, all my files are UTF-8 08.28.40 # Mine are either iso8859-1 or utf-8, hence I wasn't able to reproduce 08.29.00 # ddalton: well, yes, if you don't add plugin specific phrases to english.lang 08.29.18 Join ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ [0] (i=UPP@ool-182ceb90.dyn.optonline.net) 08.29.26 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) 08.29.35 # LinusN: so would every plugin file have to be modified or just pluigin.h or .c or talk.c or .h? 08.29.39 # morning everyone 08.30.35 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> "unsupported builds" would mean mp3 players that are currently not done yet, right? 08.30.59 # ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: no - it would mean builds of rockbox not using the core code in svn for players which ARE done 08.31.00 # ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: No, it means "compiles of Rockbox made by other people" 08.31.11 Quit eigma () 08.31.17 # LinusN: if I added strings to english.lang could these be copied fairly easily when we figure out the new way? 08.31.34 # I guess that supercedes FS#7654 08.31.36 Quit ptw419 () 08.31.49 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> ahh, i see thanks; i am just making sure i dont break a rule when asking stuff xD 08.32.19 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> will there be more builds for other mp3 players in the future? 08.32.48 # what do you have, ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^? 08.33.13 # ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: only if someone that owns that player decides to port rockbox for it 08.33.16 Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection) 08.33.17 # * jhMikeS will test #7692 and see if it's ok on the older model 08.33.22 # ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: No way to predict that. New ports happen when someone who owns the player (or a group of someones) puts in a lot of time and work 08.33.25 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> samsung YP-K3, i love it; but wish it did a few other things... 08.33.38 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> ahh, i see 08.33.46 Quit BigBambi ("Leaving") 08.34.11 Join ptw419 [0] (i=ptw419@66-90-157-228.dyn.grandenetworks.net) 08.34.59 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> okay then, is porting it to it difficult? Well i would think it would have to be if it may take a group of people to do, but still.. 08.35.12 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> you would need to own the player to port it, so what would i need to do to do so 08.35.47 # jhMikeS: if you have some time could you see how small you can strip the ata driver down to please? I was hoping it wouldnt be needed, but my playing this morninng seems to think it might be 08.36.01 # amiconn: Something interesting for cache coherency between cores seems to be making sure unshared but cacheable data doesn't share the same 16-byte memory segment. 08.36.30 # JdGordon: I posted a quick strip down but you had disappeared by then. :) 08.36.32 # LinusN: have you had a chance to test that patch? 08.36.44 # oh ok, ill go over the logs then 08.36.57 # nopaste stays 24-hrs? 08.37.01 # ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: There's some information linked to in the New Ports forum stickies 08.37.02 # ddalton: i'm busy as always, please give me some time 08.37.11 # ok then 08.37.14 # jhMikeS: well.. its only been about 5.. so we shuold be safe :p 08.37.22 # <^pSiOnIc_BeInG^> (Llorean): alright then, thanks will browse the forums then 08.37.36 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.dsl.t-2.net) 08.38.34 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 08.38.50 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 08.39.52 Quit ddalton ("leaving") 08.40.17 # * jhMikeS 's screen looks good with FS#7692 running 08.40.50 # jhMikeS: feel free to commit if you think the code looks ok 08.41.08 # jhMikeS: thanks, found the paste :) 08.41.12 # hopefully its small enough :p 08.41.32 # LinusN: I'll do that. I think it's about as simple and perfect a fix as could be asked for. 08.41.42 # goodie 08.42.30 Join qweru [0] (n=kvirc@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk) 08.42.42 Join B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se) 08.42.54 # * jhMikeS double checks to make sure there's no mistake and is running an actual patched build 08.44.52 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 08.44.54 # jhMikeS: have you still got a copy of the .c? rafb seems to have died 08.45.16 # amiconn: Sorry about Player USB typo - thanks for fixing. 08.45.23 # Bah, just after commit I spot that this stuff can be written more efficient... 08.45.42 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) 08.45.59 # JdGordon: sure do 08.46.43 # jhMikeS: That makes very much sense... 08.47.02 # * linuxstb_ wonders about austriancoder's commit - it looks like it would break usb detection when HAVE_USBSTACK is defined... 08.47.17 Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy15.netz.sbs.de) 08.47.26 # ...otehrwise core B will overwrite parts of core A's data if it decides to flush the cacheline 08.48.31 # amiconn: Yes, that is what's going on 08.48.54 Quit qwm ("Reconnecting") 08.48.58 # I set some things up like that and I get no problems 08.48.59 Join qwm [0] (i=qwm@h38n2fls32o1010.telia.com) 08.49.08 # JdGordon: http://www.pastebin.ca/681884 08.49.52 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 08.50.06 # It's probably not as reduced as it could be. I think I forgot to change some currcard-> to card_info. 08.50.28 Part Llorean 08.51.14 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.52.30 # JdGordon: I read your comment about there being maximum size of the binary e200tool can upload - how did you determine that that was the problem, and not something else? Does e200tool give an error message? 08.55.19 # amiconn: having stacks that are in cached memory strategically aligned seem to stop problems. I also made the maintenence functions as calls, put them in IRAM, and make sure instruction prefect doesn't prefetches into core code. 08.55.43 # *prefetch doesn't prefetch 08.56.12 # * jhMikeS whatever :P I think the point will be gotten 08.56.49 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 08.57.51 # JdGordon: we have no need for threading when injecting the code right? 08.59.05 # The first version of my fix was really silly compared to the new one 08.59.12 # * amiconn points to the delta table :) 08.59.51 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 09.00.35 # amiconn: Did you ever compare LCD speeds on the mini with the framebuffer in and out of IRAM? bluebrother has mentioned that the USB stack doesn't compile for his mini due to a shortage of IRAM, so I was wondering if removing the framebuffer would be an option? 09.01.34 # Using the extra iram on PP5021+ would really be better 09.01.37 # if I can get this dual-core stuff done, the whole cop stack will be history 09.02.11 # amiconn: That still leaves the 1st gen mini and (I assume) 4G greyscale with a shortage though. 09.03.51 # jhMikeS: yeah, no need for threading 09.04.19 # JdGordon: good to hear since I removed all that too 09.04.29 # linuxstb_: just an uneducated guess because it stops flashing the light once the bin get "large" 09.04.40 # How do I change the font color!? 09.04.54 # although, i tested just copying random data across after the smaller bin and that worked up to 64K.. so i dunno 09.05.17 Quit Jangari () 09.05.39 # JdGordon: Have you just tried appending random data (e.g. dd if=/dev/random count=100 >> bootloader.bin) to a known working binary? 09.06.09 # JdGordon: did you read the e200tool source code and checked that it just isn't a limit in the code? 09.06.31 # * amiconn was just about to say something similar 09.06.34 # no, I tried increasing the amount of the buffer that gets sent (its read into a 128k buffer, so random garbage at the end of the file) 09.06.50 # I didnt see anything in the e200tool code about that.. but yeah, i might have missed it 09.07.25 # B4gder: Can you ask MrH where in RAM e200tool is copying arm_code.c to? IIUC, arm_code.c relocates itself to 0x40004000, but that's all I can tell from the source... 09.08.32 # * jhMikeS wonders about the who gets the credit for FS#7692 :\ 1/2 the lines are from one person, 1/2 from another 09.08.41 # both? 09.08.42 # it relocates itself? 09.08.57 # From what I can tell, there shouldn't be a limit to the size - e200tool first sends the length as a 32-bit int, then transfers the data in 64byte chunks. 09.09.21 # B4gder: Yes, if I understand the startup asm code in arm_code.c correctly. 09.09.46 # (I could be wrong...) 09.11.38 # the arm_code is linked to address 40004000 according to the header comment 09.11.57 # it gives me the feeling that is where it is copied to 09.12.03 # ... let me explain why I tihnk the filesize has something to do with it... the first thing the code does is flash the light a fe times, then calls ata_init(), then should flash forever (at a different speed so its easy to tell the difference).... if the ata_init call is commented out the binary is ~1100 and the 2 flashing speeds are very visiable... with it uncommented i get no flashing at all.... 09.12.13 # the buffer of usb is in iram 09.12.17 # uncommented makes the bin 22k or so 09.12.34 # right, 40004000 is IRAM 09.12.51 # B4gder: Can you explain what the code commented as "Make sure we run at the right address" at the start of arm_code.c is doing? IIUC, that's relocating the code to 0x40004000 09.13.18 # ok, both get the credit then 09.13.22 # isnt iram 40000000? 09.13.28 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952BAD3.dip.t-dialin.net) 09.13.32 # JdGordon: yes, so 40004000 is iram too... 09.13.33 # It starts at 0x40000000... 09.13.48 # ah, i thought you were saying the start was 40004000... 09.13.56 # linuxstb_: I'll ask him if he knows 09.13.58 # * JdGordon sshh.... 09.14.24 # B4gder: Thanks. 09.14.35 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 09.15.59 # JdGordon: It could also be the ata init hanging 09.16.23 Quit ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ (".•«UPP»•.") 09.16.53 # Wouldn't surprise me, as most probably some hardware isn't initialised in manufacturer mode that is initialised by the sandisk loader in normal mode 09.17.13 # yeah, we should expect different inits to be required 09.17.45 # disassembling the BL could offer some interesting ones ;-) 09.17.52 # Hence my question regarding bidirectional communication yetserday 09.18.12 # This way we can get register dumps from manufacturer mode 09.18.21 # indeed 09.18.32 # That should be easy enough to add to MrH's original arm_code.c 09.18.43 # the i2cdump command should be a good inspiration for such tweaks 09.18.47 # i.e. just implement extra commands... 09.18.49 # Well, we could also blink them out via the wheel led 09.19.06 # the i2cdump command already does read out 8K of data from target 09.19.09 # to a local file 09.19.13 # But that'd be much slower and error prone 09.21.54 # amiconn: I dont think so, because i dont get the flashing before ata_init... 09.22.06 # thats why i did 2 speeds, so i can see where its at 09.22.49 # * JdGordon will be in and out for the next few hours 09.23.00 Quit Weiss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.24.00 Quit akaias (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.24.02 # blinking the wheel light is quite useful indeed for debugging imho when lcd isn't available. 09.26.51 # jhMikeS: In case you ever need to read bytes that way, here's the method I used on archos for debugging the self extractor: 09.27.26 # Use it with a photo diode and a latch? :) 09.27.56 # bit == 0 -> short blink, bit == 1 -> long blink. Short pauses between bits, long pause between nibbles, and double long pause between bytes 09.28.23 # A morse-alike code. 09.28.40 Join przemhb [0] (i=5035dcaa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f95486a1a6b45e9f) 09.28.49 Quit przemhb (Client Quit) 09.28.55 # * jhMikeS was considering making the wheel light an optical s/pdif output :P 09.29.33 Join przemhb [0] (i=5035dcaa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-89f0999c4e71edf0) 09.30.26 # hmmm, i need to find a way to wait until all queued voice clips have been played 09.31.25 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.31.25 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 09.31.37 # Hi 09.31.50 # the problem is that is_voice_queued() returns false as soon as the last clip is scheduled for playback 09.32.44 # i'm trying to make gui_syncsplach() not return until the voice is finished 09.33.00 # I would like to tell you that I have added a new codepage (WIN1250 - "Central European") - take a look FS#7712. 09.34.26 # Could someone tell me is it possible to implement convlover in rockbox? It would be very nice to have a possibility to convolve impulse response to flatten frequency response of headphones used or add some room acoustics. 09.34.40 # and I would like to tell you that we get notified by mail of all new tracker entries... :-) 09.35.00 Quit davina (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.35.14 # LinusN: I suppose wait on both the queue and playback stopped conditions would do 09.35.27 # Badger: Excuse my mistake - I am first time Rockbox developer. 09.35.36 # :-) no worries at all 09.35.40 # jhMikeS: but what if music is playing? 09.35.42 # amiconn: i was hoping to be able to use the lcd backlight also, one light for 0 and one for 1 :) but didnt have luck there either 09.36.34 # LinusN: voice_is_playing shouldn't be false again until just before the thread goes back to wait 09.36.45 # jhMikeS: ah, thanks 09.38.04 # is_voice_speaking() is broken according to the comments in playback.c :-( 09.39.57 Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) 09.40.51 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC") 09.40.59 # is_voice_speaking()? seems like a new addition. 09.41.12 # it's called by voice_wait() 09.42.16 # ...and that function is only present on swcodec platforms... :-( 09.42.17 # yeah, that's a new one. I would think { is_voice_queue() && voice_is_playing } would be more appropriate a test. 09.42.43 # yes, i wonder why the music playback would be involved at all... 09.43.19 # hmmm, i wonder what would happen if the music was paused 09.43.26 # I suppose do up an equivalent for hwcodec ? 09.43.38 # i guess it would freeze 09.43.50 # linuxstb: "It is right there.at 0x40004000" 09.43.52 # yeah, I think it will 09.44.12 # The reason for the relocation code is for the pre-boot usb mode 09.44.28 # what's the status of rockbox on the sansa e200 players?? ... in terms of sound quality? 09.44.36 # is it equal to original firmware yet? 09.44.49 # grndslm: it sounds great 09.44.51 # ... && !paused? 09.44.58 # B4gder: I don't understand that relocation code then... 09.45.21 # B4gder: so, it sounds as good as original firmware?? .. or better? 09.45.26 # linuxstb: it is there to make sure the code is at 40004000 09.45.43 # grndslm: yes, although I can't remember the OF anymore... :-) 09.45.52 # B4gder: But MrH said the code is copied to 0x40004000 ? 09.45.56 # grndslm: It's quite high on my sound quality list compared to many others 09.46.02 # linuxstb: yes, if it isn't there already 09.46.11 # it is there already in the manufacture mode 09.46.14 # B4gder: when i tried it a few months with rockbox, it seemed to be a bit scratchy or staticy at some points 09.46.16 # but not in pre-boot mode 09.46.36 # "So I just want to support both modes with the same code." 09.46.39 # grndslm: I think rockbox tops it. Our codecs seem to be higher quality. 09.47.17 # B4gder: Ah, so in pre-boot mode it's transferred to ???, and in manufacture mode, it's transferred to 0x40004000 ? 09.47.19 # jhMikeS: interesting, it must have improved a good bit, i'll have to check it out again... as soon as i can find my charger ;-) 09.47.47 # linuxstb: correctly, in pre-boot it gets transfered to 0x40000000 09.47.55 # scratchy shouldn't be a problem. that was addressed as well as all the other earlier problems 09.48.06 # "In manufacturing mode the i2c contents are at 0x4000000 so the load address is higher." 09.48.22 # B4gder: Thanks. That's clear now, and it could also explain JdGordon's problems... 09.48.42 # grndslm: when did you last try rockbox on e200? 09.48.50 # linuxstb: it does ? 09.48.52 # JdGordon: You need to make those two changes (crt0-pp-bl.S and boot.lds) that I originally suggested. 09.49.12 # jhMikeS: prolly around 5~6 mo ago 09.49.45 # grndslm: yeah, time to try again I'd say 09.51.28 # linuxstb: ok, ill give then a go soonish... 09.51.41 # good thing i did svn diff > changes before reverting them :) 09.54.30 # * jhMikeS goes to commit FS#7692 09.54.41 Part przemhb 09.59.20 # GodEater_: The code currently relocates itself from 0x40004000 (the load address) to 0x40000000 (where it is linked to run from). IIUC, that could cause problems if the size is > 0x4000 bytes (16KB), as the code appears to run on both cores - it's before the COP is halted. 09.59.26 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 10.00.07 # * jhMikeS wonders what's up with the yellow coming out in rec_format_afmt (haven't seen the build table in a bit) 10.00.52 # * linuxstb wonders why both MrH's arm_code.c and Rockbox's crt0-pp-bl.S both do the relocation before halting the COP. 10.01.35 # sounds like an odd choice 10.01.44 Join class37 [0] (n=gettin_i@ip68-228-207-177.ph.ph.cox.net) 10.02.42 # having trouble when i put my ipod 30 gig vidoe on coffee mug fm transmitter... goes into usb mode 10.02.50 # have most current build installed 10.03.01 # would someone mind telling me what that filename translates to in english ? Obviously I get the "pp" is portalplayer - but I always wondered about the rest of it 10.03.28 # does anyone recall when those warnings started? 10.03.34 # I'm not sure what crt0 actually means - it's the filename always used for the initial startup code. "bl" is bootloader. 10.03.47 # jhMikeS: a gcc 4.2 update 10.03.58 # I guessed the bl was bootloader too - but wasn't sure 10.04.04 # I'd love to know where crt0 comes from 10.04.16 # "C runtime" according to wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crt0 10.04.23 # ah 10.04.29 # And I guess the zero is because it's the very first code to run 10.05.57 # I imagine you're right 10.08.12 # hmmm...what a useless warning for something that uses documented compiler bahavior to default-fill an array and then override them with specified inits. :\ 10.08.45 # jhMikeS: yes, they do seem... pointless 10.09.00 # obo mentioned a flag that will silence (most of) them 10.09.58 Quit tehxed () 10.11.09 # some of those tables to convert types have gaps in places and they change size with every codec added. the setup now avoids the need to edit them at all. I'd hate to lose the convenience of that and worry about the bugs that will crop up if the method can't be used. 10.15.48 # we'll see more servers going 4.2, so we need to deal with it 10.16.39 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) 10.17.23 # I've looked before about suppressing specific useless warnings in gcc and came up empty handed. 10.18.28 # I don't share that experience. it really depends on what warnings 10.18.46 # there's no generic disable option 10.18.48 # One that bugs me (x is possibly used uninitialized) : { int x; if (cond) { x = something; } ....... if (cond) { something_else = x; } 10.19.25 # thats a valid warning though... 10.19.34 # not in that case 10.19.39 # oh, your saying its the same cond? 10.19.40 # not if 'cond' remains the same 10.19.42 # yes 10.19.52 # ah well... then you might have a point 10.19.57 # so I'm forced to initialize x for no reason 10.20.23 # does using -O2 or similar change such a case? 10.20.24 Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) 10.20.54 # I mean, can gcc possibly see this better if optimizing 10.20.54 # you should init it... if the second cond ever changes, a nasty bug is introduced easily 10.21.24 # * jhMikeS couldn't even compile an ARM build with any other -O option. 10.21.27 # yes, I agree that the warning can be seen as pointing out a sloppy practise that leads to hard-to-maintain code 10.21.53 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10.22.01 # petur: I feel like I should be the master of what's needed, not the compiler. :) 10.22.13 # it's just a warning 10.23.25 # heh...just a warning. the cops tell me that all the time :P 10.23.40 # *g* 10.24.37 # oh... you're _that_ dangerous? :p 10.28.44 # LinusN: Why do you want gui_syncsplash() to wait for voice to end? Voice is asynchronous by design, I'd hate that behaviour... 10.28.45 # * jhMikeS *whistling* 10.29.04 # * jhMikeS supposes he should close some FS stuff now 10.29.15 # amiconn: gui_syncsplash() is not asynchronous, hence the name 10.29.37 # * jhMikeS thought "sync" was referring to screens 10.29.41 # No., the "sync" just means "all LCDs" in that case 10.30.58 # amiconn: ah, my bad, but if the "ticks" parameter is set, it sleeps 10.31.13 # yes 10.31.16 # and then it should wait until the voice is finished 10.31.30 # Imho it should not 10.31.37 # otherwise the voice is interrupted when the screen returns to the menu 10.31.41 # Voice can play *way* longer than the timeout 10.31.52 # that's my point 10.32.18 # Voice is only interupted if there's all new stuff to announce, and that's on purpose then 10.32.36 # in this case, the alarm screen exits before the "waking up in xx" is spoken, so you don't hear it 10.32.42 # It ensures quick navigation 10.32.55 # your talking about my patch? 10.32.59 # yes 10.33.10 # That's a special case then 10.33.22 # yes, perhaps 10.33.26 # how long does it take to finish talking 10.33.56 # ddalton: That's not predictable, as it depends on language and voice speed 10.34.05 # o yeah... 10.35.13 # well when exiting the alarm you land on the wake up alarm option why don't we just make that voice not interrupt the alarm wake up message. 10.35.53 # I guess we can't. Because of make_menu 10.36.24 # what would happen if you press a button when a gui_syncsplash is displaying something is set at 20 seconds? 10.36.37 # How does "Loading" work? 10.36.42 Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) 10.36.47 # isn't it much the same? 10.37.58 # The button press will be queued like normal 10.38.23 # so what should we do then? 10.38.30 # any ideas? 10.38.40 # we should let the alarm screen wait for the voice before exiting 10.38.56 # how? 10.39.10 # there are different spees the voice file can be 10.39.19 # speeds 10.41.06 # i've noticed that, on the iPod 5G, when the backlight is off the first keypress is not enacted, it only turns the backlight on. the second keypress does enothing (at least while the backlight is on), the third keypress works as expected. is this known? 10.42.54 # I think that's configurable. 10.42.54 # LinusN: could this problem with voicing splashes also be the reason why I sometimes get the "loading" splash voiced twice? 10.43.08 # DefineByte: that's a config option 10.43.11 # pixelma: yes, probably 10.43.21 # I see 10.43.41 # disable second keypress is a config option? 10.43.55 # "first keypress enables backlight" is the option 10.44.01 # i know you can set whether to just turn te backlight on or not on first keypress 10.44.06 # Oh, the second keypress? no, that'd be a bug then. 10.44.11 # but the second gets eaten 10.44.19 # Sorry.. getting late, and I didn't read it right. 10.44.24 # * jhMikeS knew his dual-core changes weren't the reason for double-talk 10.44.35 # i didn't describe it very well, probably 10.44.47 # DefineByte: ah - not noticed that behaviour myself 10.45.06 # i get it all the time. as in 100% reproducable 10.45.13 # although I have noticed that the ipod is very slow to acknowledge key presses after having the hold switch turned off 10.45.23 # sometimes it takes as many as five goes for it to accept the "pause" perss 10.45.24 # *press 10.45.37 # I never observed this, but then I don't use "First keypress enables backlight only" 10.45.38 # it may be related to the baclight coming on with the hold switch, i'm not sure 10.46.00 # i always use the hold switch 10.46.08 # I do know that sometimes the first keypress after hold is eaten 10.46.22 # that could be it then. :) 10.46.26 # ...but then I don't use hold often either 10.46.35 Join Jangari [0] (n=Jangari@ppp121-44-121-118.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net) 10.46.46 # does anyone use that dos based font converter? 10.46.58 # well, as long as it's known. not a big issue really. :) 10.47.01 # makefont.bat? 10.47.02 # dos based font converter? 10.47.06 # yeah 10.47.18 # it's fucken cool, and very quick and simple 10.47.34 # somehow I doubt it is truly dos based 10.48.05 # probably just console based 10.48.27 # whatever, you run it from cmd 10.48.35 # i aint no nerd 10.48.37 # :P 10.48.47 # hey, we need more nerds 10.49.05 # i'm a nerd, just not a computer nerd 10.49.08 # alright? 10.49.13 # Heh a friend of mine once made a little dos TSR which rotated the bios font. It was wicked :D 10.50.01 # what open hardware is out there that doesn't have a rockbox port? anyone know any? 10.50.11 # lots? 10.50.26 # open hardware such as... ? 10.50.42 # not open open, just documented i guess 10.50.53 # such as... ? 10.51.03 # i thought that was my q 10.51.14 # I don't understand your question 10.51.16 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.51.24 # coldifre is documented right? 10.51.27 # pp is closed 10.51.40 # coldfire is an architecture 10.51.42 # pp is a brand 10.51.57 # ah, wickid 10.52.00 # I'm not sure all coldfires are documented 10.52.04 # just found what i was looking for 10.52.13 # a simulator 10.52.26 # Don't the iHP120-series use coldfire? 10.52.32 # DefineByte: what we are trying to say is that there are actually no players around with documented hardware, except for the neuros 10.52.32 # (Sorry for such a silly question) 10.52.38 # but is there any DAPs out there with known documentation but no port due to lack of interest? 10.52.38 # gammy: they do, yes 10.52.44 # B4gder: Ok. 10.52.54 # gammy: but there are many different coldfire versions 10.53.00 # really? that's a pretty sorry state of affairs 10.53.02 # B4gder: Yeah I understand that. 10.53.14 # DefineByte: well, if you think of "documented" for the cpu only 10.53.17 # then yes 10.53.18 # DefineByte: and ironically, the neuros uses a microcontroller with no public documentation 10.53.21 # like the iAudio m3 10.53.55 # but virtually no players are documented all the way 10.53.56 # why do these companies not want their hardware to be used? it's mad 10.55.15 Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) 10.55.26 # DRM, license fees, paranoia, I'm sure 10.55.41 # mostly paranoia 10.56.04 # and the "we don't want the hobby projects to clog our support" 10.56.13 # (basically what the AMS guy told me) 10.56.14 # that telechips doc was so huge on IP 10.56.14 # they probably see their hardware being ripped off by chinese companies etc 10.56.15 # well, rockbox *has* caused an increase in support calls to for example archos 10.56.35 # really? that's pretty bad 10.56.40 # ugh 10.56.48 # but archos isn't the chip maker 10.56.55 # nope 10.57.06 # so it wouldn't affect them 10.57.11 # the chip maker paranoia is beyond me 10.57.39 # it's corperate culture i guess 10.57.51 # everything they do has to be secret or it has no value 10.57.57 # anything NDA'ed I've seen ... it's just ridiculous. hardly anything, if anything worth hiding 10.58.18 # corporate/ 10.59.04 # they like to feel important it seems. like they have something so valuable that if others found out about it they'd be instantly screwed 10.59.07 # DefineByte: ArchOpen is a project similar to Rockbox - it's an open source replacement OS for the newer Archos devices. So it contains lots of source/info that could aid Rockbox ports to those (and similar) devices. Although those Archos devices are PMPs, rather than strictly DAPs, so Rockbox ports may not be that useful. 10.59.38 # which isn't stopping you trying to port it to one :) 10.59.40 # I would also think that customers of these hardwares don't care enough 10.59.48 # so there's no push for the manufactorers to change 10.59.50 # I'm not just getting that from stuff RB related. 10.59.55 # i'd imagine owners of those would be after pretty extensive multimedia support 11.00.59 # what about DAB radios? maybe rockbox could work on those (the ones with storage at least) 11.01.01 # B4gder: Have you done any work for the iHP-series yourself? 11.01.17 # yes 11.01.17 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF518E.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.01.21 # You have to sign NDA just to get service manuals stuff, for instance. 11.01.22 # B4gder: Neato. 11.01.36 # me been poking all over 11.01.56 # B4gder: Without the rockbox port to that I would have bought a new player many, many yeaes ago. Rockbox keeps it kickin'. 11.02.31 # i guess that's why companies don't like to open hardware then. they want you to upgrade 11.02.34 # years even. Silly new keyboard. 11.03.03 # yes, rockbox does show how underutilized the devices are and most technological "progress" is a sham 11.03.11 # Don't chip makers also sell expensive SDKs with runtime licenses... ? 11.03.33 # forced obsolescence is a terrible thing 11.04.15 # especially if we're supposed to be more environmentally conscious 11.04.52 # Did I read correctly here that Sansa thought about actually introducing an enhanced e200 to do what was done with a few lines of code for SDHC? 11.05.03 # how many SDKs do they sell for 2 year old hardware? 11.05.22 # jhMikeS: yes, at least according to some rumour 11.05.24 # jhMikeS: doesn't sound surprising at all 11.05.38 # the sdhc support should be displayed with a special logo 11.05.52 # which the current e200 players don't feature 11.06.04 # preferable holographic 11.06.08 # ?? 11.06.24 # B4gder: So we should add the logo ? ;) 11.06.31 # haha 11.06.31 # I guess we just can't make it official then. 11.06.43 # yeah, "buy your microsdhc logo sticker here =>" 11.06.58 # $400/yr 11.07.06 # cheap 11.07.21 # would users really know what it meant? 11.07.26 # but it holographic...like many stickers in one 11.07.39 # would they even care? 11.08.23 # i was more thinking holographic to make forgery of their precious logo harder 11.08.25 # makes me think, it's really the lawyers 11.09.18 # capitalism is founded on lawyers 11.09.43 # headlines: SDHC Sticker Forgery Ring Busted 11.09.59 # it wouldn't surprise me 11.10.16 # they do it for sony memory sticks 11.10.22 # "To ensure compatibility, look for the SDHC logo on cards and host devices (cameras, 11.10.23 # camcorders, etc.)" 11.10.32 # (http://www.steves-digicams.com/pdf/sdhc.pdf) 11.10.51 # rockbox is _not_ _not_ compatible with SDHC 11.11.08 # not not? so it is? 11.11.18 # * jhMikeS didn't say that 11.12.38 # isn't it possible "not not" != "is" ? :P 11.13.02 # is it such a crime if you just say it out loud 11.13.18 # the emperors bloody new clothes 11.13.44 # * jhMikeS will wash out those blood stains ;) 11.14.46 # they may say it's quality control. there's a shit load of fake memory stick duos on ebay don't know about other standards 11.15.17 # if they're fake, they surely fake the logo sticker as well 11.15.32 # indeed. it's all bs 11.15.46 # just trying to appear like they're doing something 11.15.53 # same with drm 11.16.10 # if i was a share holder i'd be pissed at the amount of omney wated on drm 11.16.31 # but it keeps up appearances 11.16.42 # I believe companies such as Apple has earned quite a few bucks even though they do DRM a lot 11.17.03 # im more thinking of the record labels 11.17.04 # but sure, they may still have wasted money on it 11.17.22 # the hardware manufactuers are quids in 11.17.26 Part LinusN 11.18.58 # if the company can be convinced it's to their benefit to help the rockbox project, I don't doubt they would. Just the fact that sansa approached the project seems to indicate the waters are being tested. 11.19.26 # i buy daps purely based on rockbox support now 11.20.22 # no closed solutions offer anything close 11.20.50 # if they do share info about things such as the AS3514, it's best to be on best behavior and not screw that stuff up. 11.20.51 # they do offer a bit more in terms of reliability mind you 11.21.06 # when *is* playback.c going to be re-written ? ;) 11.21.18 # xD 11.21.21 # heh 11.21.41 # but if you're stuck with an unreliable dap you're screwed 11.21.46 # * GodEater_ suspects it's still a case of "let sleeping dogs lie" 11.21.48 # when the buffer is separated...a big start esp. to getting threading right 11.21.50 # at least with rockbox there's a future 11.22.35 # * petur wishes linuxstb good luck on getting a response from austriancoder 11.22.45 # yeah, does he even read the list? 11.23.01 # I think all committers should of course... 11.23.18 # formal procedure and all x) 11.23.40 # rockbox is 100% about being formal 11.23.48 # 11.24.23 # * jhMikeS gets lazy about forums and mailing lists, etc. when working on a big project. 11.24.28 # yeah, we have specs written in Z and everything 11.24.44 # *shudder* 11.24.57 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) 11.25.15 Quit kubiixaka ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 11.25.48 # were you being sarcastic b4dger? 11.25.58 # dual-core thread.c sort of rivals playback.c in length but actually doesn't crash or deadlock :) 11.26.23 # how common are rockbox crashes in normal use? 11.27.02 # what target? 11.27.14 # all, in general 11.27.20 # depends 11.27.21 # not uncommon enough thanks to race conditions. cooperative multitasking really doesn't afford any shortcuts to synchronization. 11.27.24 # in non-target specific code 11.27.30 # h300 not many ipods a couple more 11.27.35 # but over all very good 11.28.07 # DefineByte: there are things you can do to produce reliable crashes in rockbox 11.28.17 # for which the solutions are not at all abvious 11.28.23 # *obvious 11.28.40 # my useage pattern is pretty basic so i've never seen a crash 11.29.13 # DefineByte: do you have the setting for automatically changing folder turned on ? 11.29.17 # ?? 11.29.27 # no i don't 11.29.36 # DefineByte: I won't bother demonstrating then ;) 11.29.37 # does that crash often? 11.29.40 # hehe 11.29.53 # it does if you're in the file browser as the lpayback engine tries to change to the next folder 11.29.55 # TI releases another DMS320 sibling, sub 10USD with HD-abilities... 11.30.04 # and you have dircache turned on 11.30.16 # guess we'll see more TI based DAPs and media players ahead 11.30.18 # that i do have on 11.30.18 # you have to have dircache on for that one ? 11.30.39 # yup, I could only reproduce it with dircache enabled 11.30.40 # eek...raid the TI offices 11.30.57 # how about porting rockbox to PVRs? i'd love to turn my topfield into a jukebox. 8) 11.31.01 # "can encode or decode 720p HD MPEG-4 SP video at 30 frames per second" 11.31.19 # at 400mW 11.31.27 # * jhMikeS hates the day he needs to add AUDIO_SRC_VIDEO :P 11.31.41 # http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5620449448.html 11.32.22 # * B4gder looks forward to a rockbox port for a DMS320 device 11.32.49 # portable video seems a bit of a dead end to me 11.32.51 # obo - how right you are - that doesn't cause the codec failure if you have dircache off 11.34.42 # that is as far as I got tracking it down, I think it'll need a dircache guru to take a looksie 11.34.54 # * GodEater_ points at jhMikeS 11.35.01 # * linuxstb updates SansaE200RInstallation and hopes it's clearer... 11.35.40 # linuxstb: that looks much better 11.35.42 # * jhMikeS stares puzzled 11.36.09 # at what ? 11.36.20 # * obo points at Slasheri :) 11.36.20 # why you're pointing at me 11.36.28 # thought you were Mr. Dircache :) 11.36.48 # bleh ... should I be? I need a new hat. 11.36.51 # clearly I was wrong 11.36.55 # * GodEater_ goes to stand in the corner 11.37.26 # sounds like someone needs to be 11.39.01 # * jhMikeS can't even remember what file implements it :P 11.39.13 # FS#5797 is the bug report 11.39.43 # heh 11.43.50 Join Weiss [0] (i=taw27@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) 11.45.12 Quit LycoLoco_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11.46.43 # hmmm.................... 11.51.49 # GodEater: Slasheri is Cacheri (and Flasheri as well) ;) 11.52.17 # looks like dircache removes the existing cache file before creating the new one. is that the right way to do things? 11.52.28 # or am i getting it wrong? 11.52.44 Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B5CF.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.52.51 # DefineByte: when it initialises you mean ? 11.53.01 # yeah 11.53.40 # DefineByte: would seem the safest way to do it to me 11.53.46 # There is no cache file, except on a flashed H1x0 11.54.32 # so if thw write fails you just lose the cache? i guess it's easily rebuilt 11.54.39 Join fm2 [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1a502b0eeb3913c7) 11.54.46 # * jhMikeS basically gets the dircache hoosgow now 11.55.41 # I'd like to talk about FS#7232. Would a setting for keymap to use be accepted in SVN? 11.55.51 # DefineByte: On all standard targets, the cache only lives in RAM 11.56.13 # jhMikeS: adding dual core support adds 3k lines to thread.c? +? ?? 11.56.15 # didn't know that. thought it got written to disk eventually 11.57.08 # No, that would be dangerous as the disk content can change without rockbox noticing 11.58.13 # DefineByte: What would be the point in saving dircache? Between boots to Rockbox, anything (and everything) could have changed on the disk, so Rockbox has to do a complete scan anyway. 11.58.57 # can't it check to see if the FAT has changed (or whatever it's called xD)? 11.59.31 # this may sounds strange but we have given this some thought already 12.00.04 # i'm sure there's a good reason. i just like tothink about it :) 12.00.14 Join kclaf [0] (n=kclaf@85.95.211.245) 12.01.22 Quit kclaf (Remote closed the connection) 12.01.24 Part fm2 ("... awaiting JdGordon and Llorean to arrive") 12.01.25 # preglow: not that much. 12.01.48 # I did comment it a whole lot 12.01.54 # definitely good 12.02.55 # you can't save the FAT as well and compare it? 12.03.20 # it's about 2100 lines fixing all holes, adding comments, richening the threading API and guaranteeing low latencies all about 25-30% faster. 12.03.57 # DefineByte: save the whole disc on the disc ?? 12.04.25 # i thought the FAT was just an index pointing to the clusters 12.05.05 # Anyway, comparing would be the same as rebuilding the cache wouldn't it ? (interms of disc access) 12.05.19 # jhMikeS: got a patch hanging around? 12.05.40 # how small is the FAT then? 12.05.43 # preglow: could make one 12.05.44 # DefineByte: Directory contents may change without the FAT being touched. A little bit of thinking reveals that 12.05.52 # And the FAT can be several MB 12.06.02 # hah, or lack of ignorance :D 12.06.03 # jhMikeS: don't bother, can't test now anyway 12.06.26 # how does make_menu work. Like for example if I make an option "music" what function does it call? 12.06.49 # I _should_ be able get to cracking the problems on pp5020 soon 12.07.40 Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@103.3.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch) 12.08.22 # the trickiest little bit to implement is to switch a thread's processor but that works nicely now too (it will have practical application). 12.08.36 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12.08.50 # how does the directory contents get changed without touching the FAT in valid operation? no doubt a stupid question born out of ignorance of file systems x) 12.09.22 Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") 12.09.26 # feel free to ignore if you find yourself slapping your forehead 12.10.39 # DefineByte: the FAT only contains information about *where* on the disk the files/directories are 12.10.58 # not the contents 12.11.21 # which means that you can, for example, rename a file without altering the FAT 12.11.24 # jhMikeS: what application? 12.11.40 Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) 12.11.44 # LinusN: the file name is not held in the FAT ? 12.11.49 # learn something new... where are the filenames held then? 12.11.56 # GodEater: nope 12.12.17 # DefineByte: in the directories 12.12.26 # ah of course 12.12.41 # which you scan. okay fair enough :) 12.12.49 # :-) 12.13.09 # * ddalton better read his c book! 12.14.04 # my brain is a load of 0xFFF7 it seems. :) 12.14.33 # preglow: one big place where it's safer is to terminate another processor's thread. another will be for codecs that which to choose their processor configuration. another is pcm control which should be in the correct context. 12.16.25 Part Kalthare 12.19.23 # there's currently a huge bug in SVN where a terminated cop thread continues to use a stack from an exited plugin until it changes to another thread to run. baaaad. taken care of using idle stacks when needed. 12.22.11 Join seablue [0] (n=s@0x535c1344.banxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) 12.24.06 # haha 12.25.34 # one must mind the stack of the last thread to call switch_thread is the one used for idling, until the next real context switch. 12.25.38 # jhMikeS: Eh? How can a terminated thread continue to use something? Shouldn't the cop just idle in cop_main() if there are no other threads? 12.25.52 # read above :) 12.27.01 # Hmm, I don't think I understand that fully. Such things happen when too much complexity is introduced :/ 12.28.45 # which is sp is the one being used until load_context is called for the next thread? even the old type threading would be subject. 12.31.04 # No it wouldn't, as it always switched context for real 12.31.14 Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@rockbox/developer/austriancoder) 12.31.23 # as long at least one thread was not sleeping 12.31.43 # amiconn: there's nothing "keep it simple" about dual core in the first place, you can't talk about introducing complexity there 12.31.56 # linuxstb: I have seen this too that usb detection wasnt working... i am checking it atm 12.32.19 # given that geniune blocking cuts processor activity by some 200 times (from your measurement) I'd say it's worthwhile especially with powerful CPUs that would just spin around horribly making millions of switch thread calls when doing nothing. 12.32.33 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@modemcable061.67-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) 12.33.03 Join james_malone [0] (n=James@58.175.83.231) 12.33.17 # austriancoder: OK. Something else I wanted to bring to your attention is that the Sansa bootloader runs usb_init() - which (unless you were running your own bootloader) would have explained why the usb detection still worked when you removed that init code from Rockbox. 12.33.29 Join Nick_Brackley [0] (n=chatzill@75.73.87.203.static.nsw.chariot.net.au) 12.33.49 # If archos managed 2400 doing nothing, I don't even want to see what a Gigabeat would rack up over the 10-12 switches it currently does. 12.34.15 # linuxstb: I think its time build bootloaders :) 12.34.16 Quit james_malone (Client Quit) 12.35.27 # linuxstb: any thoughts about FS#7709? 12.36.38 # obo: Did you read the results of my own attempt to implement "usb bootloader mode" in IRC last night? 12.36.52 # no, I missed that 12.37.14 # obo: Basically, calling usb_init prevented both disk mode and the original firmware from working. 12.37.33 # Your method works (IIUC) because you're rebooting. 12.39.31 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 12.39.33 # ah, okay. Maybe I ought to add a check for the hold button as well as usb_power... (thinking about having hold on, and connecting a USB charger) 12.40.19 Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c58-109-97-210.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au) 12.40.19 Quit petur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12.40.30 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 12.40.56 Join Spaetzchen [0] (i=57a0e346@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cbc138ff985039aa) 12.41.01 # hello 12.41.10 # is someone here who can speaks german? 12.41.21 # yep 12.41.31 Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952AEB9.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.41.34 # du sprichst deutsch und kannst mir helfen? ;) 12.41.42 # the name kinda gives it away :D 12.41.58 # deutsch: ja,,, ob ich dir helfen kann... keine Ahnung 12.42.06 # hihi, ich versuchs mal ;-) 12.42.12 # this is an english speaking channel though 12.42.13 # obo: That could work... Although it would be nicer to work out how to "uninit" the USB hardware and make the OF and diskmode happy... 12.42.31 # ich hab gestern rockbox auf meinem sansa e250 installiert 12.42.45 # Spaetzchen: lets move to a privtate chat 12.42.52 # it's all about the games isn't it? >.> 12.42.53 # wie geht das? 12.42.54 # timeout checks are also now done only at the soonest task ready to run instead of every tick, so that's a factor of 10 reduction in checks not to mention lazy removal from that list that speeds thread wakeup a good deal. you can count that a thread will never have to wait till the next tick unless it calls sleep with an arg of 1 or greater. 12.42.58 # Spaetzchen: maybe you'll find more people who can help you when you try to explain your problem in english 12.43.20 # my problem is that I can't speak english very well ;) 12.43.43 # so I can't explain it in english, because I even don't know how to explain in german 12.43.46 # Spaetzchen: you speak it a lot better than some of the idiots we get in here who claim it as a first language 12.43.56 # hm 12.44.00 # thx ;-) 12.44.04 # the thing that irks me the most is the scheduler boost control. how a thread blocks has nothing to do with boosting imo. 12.44.05 # ok, I'll try 12.44.23 # yesterday I installed rockbox on my Sansa e250 :-) 12.44.46 # now I have the problem that I have no backgroundpictures 12.44.50 Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@dhcp03.algebra.tuwien.ac.at) 12.44.50 # jhMikeS: agree wit that 12.44.55 # jhMikeS: I'm not sure there are many fans of the scheduler boost control feature 12.44.57 Part norbusan 12.45.18 # and no sound - wikipedia said that this software for people who has problems with their eyes (blind people) 12.45.35 # ah speech 12.45.38 # but I've got many games on it, but I don't need it ;-) 12.45.44 # jo, sorry, speech ;-) 12.46.14 # so I tried to deinstall - nothing happend - it said that he can't find the system ;-) 12.46.28 # so I have no rockbox and not the normal player ;-) 12.46.32 # I'm wondering if boosts should just fizzle out if not explicitly maintained or are cancelled. 12.46.36 # so my question is: what can I do? ;-) 12.47.15 # that's another subject. the fix for voice basically reduced it all to the original protocol. 12.48.04 # jhMikeS: hmm, that might work nicely 12.48.11 # but would of course stress placement of boost calls more 12.49.05 # what player are you using? 12.49.35 # me? 12.49.54 # yes :) 12.50.04 # SanDisk Sansa e250 12.51.04 # Spaetzchen: what exactly does it say when you start it now? 12.51.17 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.51.22 # File not found 12.51.31 # anyone with any experiance of recovering a sansa? 12.51.39 # Spaetzchen: and you did unzip a rockbox zip on the player? 12.51.40 # because I deleted it ;-) 12.51.47 # deleted what? 12.51.51 # the file 12.51.54 # what file? 12.52.12 # you deleted the /rockbox directory? 12.52.18 # .rockbox 12.52.23 # yes ;-) 12.52.34 # because there was no pictures and no speech 12.52.44 # and now you have? 12.52.44 # so I tried to delete everything that I can try it again 12.52.47 # gee... 12.52.53 # but 12.53.07 # NOW I have the prob that I can't start ;-) 12.53.13 # so get into recovery mode and put back .rockbox, or re-install the original sansa OF 12.53.16 # I can't deinstall 12.53.21 # I can't reinstall 12.53.25 # sure you can, just read our guides 12.53.31 # Shouldn't it start the OF if you start the Sansa with USB attached? 12.53.42 # (OF = original firmware) 12.53.44 # OF? 12.53.48 # hihi 12.53.48 # no 12.53.50 # that's the idea, I don't think it works everywhere 12.54.02 # Or manually press a button to start the original firmware? 12.54.06 # it doesn't starts, I don't know how to start in the normal 12.54.11 # pressing << starts the OF 12.54.17 # ok, mom 12.54.24 # Spaetzchen: you COULD read the manual you know... 12.54.39 # a crazy idea, I know 12.54.43 # I read it, but I don't understand it 12.54.55 # is the manual in german? 12.54.56 # I did everything what the manual said 12.55.05 # a little one, yes 12.55.34 # I did everything what the manual said - press enter etc. to install .... 12.55.34 # we only have english manuals 12.55.41 # preglow: I suppose but I think it wouldn't take too much given a sufficiently long expiration. I think giving cancelling control to the _last_ thread to request boost is all that's needed. not a per-thread record as it is now. 12.55.49 # Spaetzchen: I don't think it told you to remove the .rockbox directory 12.55.51 # but there wasn't pictures etc. 12.56.04 # Spaetzchen: rockbox is not "pictures" 12.56.09 # Spaetzchen: There will only be a background image if you install one... 12.56.09 # no, I removed it because nothing happend 12.56.19 # nothing? 12.56.20 # I installed it 12.56.23 # really nothing? 12.56.29 # Spaetzchen: It sounds like you had a perfectly working Rockbox install, but didn't install the themes or voice files. 12.56.36 # I think the games are ok ;-) 12.56.44 # the games of nothing you mean then? 12.56.45 # but I can't do anything 12.56.56 # so I tried to deinstall, but it doesn't happend 12.56.57 # geees 12.57.01 # * B4gder stops this and hides 12.57.09 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 12.57.13 # You then half-uninstalled it (not following the uninstall instructions in the manual), and stopped your Sansa from working... 12.57.19 # bring on rbutil xD 12.57.20 # I installed it, but I haven't seen and heard something 12.57.33 # Spaetzchen: Did you try playing some music? 12.57.51 # I have no music on the player because he is new 12.57.51 # Spaetzchen: Did you download and install the voice files? 12.58.01 # does/will rbutil uninstall rockbox? 12.58.13 # yes 12.58.33 # DefineByte: Yes (I'm not sure which - the old WX rbutil had an uninstall option, I can't remember if that's in Qt yes, but I expect so) 12.59.01 # so, I would like to try it again, but with help 12.59.08 # and this is the reason why I 12.59.12 # I'm here ;) 12.59.18 # Spaetzchen: But anyway, turn your Sansa off (hold power for about 15 seconds I think), then hold <<, then turn your Sansa back on. It should start the original firmware. 12.59.19 # should prevent this particular problem from cropping up then. :) 12.59.30 # I would like to have my old system or the new system with all things I need ;-) 12.59.46 # jhMikeS: doens't sound like something that would take too long to try out either 12.59.54 # yes, I'm in the original 13.00.22 Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) 13.00.25 # Spaetzchen: Then there's no problem - copy .rockbox across and start again. 13.00.39 # ok, mom 13.01.05 # When you downloaded the .voice file, did you correctly rename it? 13.01.41 # rename? 13.01.54 # Yes 13.02.06 # I don't know what u mean 13.02.12 # change the name of the file 13.02.13 # Change the name of the file 13.02.17 # :D 13.02.20 # preglow: probably not...what I said isn't _quite_ it. I wanted to wait to establish this code before working priority inheritance and that boost control thingy. 13.02.26 # * linuxstb wins for proper capitalisation 13.02.32 # boo 13.02.35 Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13.02.50 # no I didn't do this 13.02.57 # and I deleted it 13.03.12 # can u give me the link that I can download it again, please? 13.03.29 # rockbox.org 13.04.03 # * amiconn really isn't sure anymore whether we should use the 2nd core on PP at all, given the huge problems it causes 13.04.10 # * linuxstb agrees with amiconn 13.04.19 # i am 13.04.23 # the ui suffers horribly 13.04.34 # and given the nature of the clickwheel, we need a responsive ui 13.04.38 Join PaulJam [0] (n=pauljam@p54BCCE2A.dip.t-dialin.net) 13.04.39 # Apart from in certain restricted situations like mpegplayer - where the app is responsible for obeying the restrictions. 13.04.40 # In what way? 13.04.51 # * jhMikeS doesn't know which problems it causes 13.04.55 # preglow: Temporary boost whilst the UI is active would solve that - if code optimisation can't. 13.05.01 # threaded programming is easy 13.05.09 # given a sufficiently hungry codec, no it won't 13.05.26 # ok, and now dezip in the sansa? 13.05.29 # * petur spots austriancoder and waves 13.05.54 # Dualcore seems to add the same amount of problems (at least) as preemptive threading would 13.05.58 # jhMikeS: It's changing Rockbox from a simple co-operative multi-tasking kernel that more than one person can understand to something only you understand... 13.06.09 # amiconn: it does some of them, but not all 13.06.20 # petur: hi 13.06.22 # ...good enough for some serious headaches 13.06.30 # * jhMikeS doesn't see problems with preemtive threading and is quite at ease with it. 13.06.33 # ... on dual core targets 13.06.36 # DefineByte what must I do now? 13.06.59 Quit GodEater (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13.07.10 # austriancoder: I think it would be good of you to respond to Dave's mail on the list since it was posted there 13.07.18 # i don't think we should keep chanting the "kiss" mantra so much we start closing our eyes on features just because the code gains a certain complexity 13.07.21 # for those who only read the list 13.07.30 # linuxstb: I hope to comment it sufficiently and messing with that isn't for everyone. Basically it's either: understand it or leave it alone kind of thing. 13.07.32 # preglow: Then such a codec could use the COP. Or we run all codecs on the COP - requiring only the codec api to be multi-core safe, not the whole of Rockbox. 13.07.41 # to be honest i've never installed voice files beofre. i'm sure someone else knows better than me 13.08.11 # jhMikeS: pre-emptive thread may be easy to do, but it opens a whole new can of worms for us 13.08.17 # hihi 13.08.40 # someone said that I must rename this file and where I must put this file? 13.08.49 # we don't need or want pre-emptive threading 13.09.00 # jhMikeS: I really fear that dualcore will cause serious issue in other code than just the scheduler, and I probably have no idea how to deal with them 13.09.06 # B4gder: depends on the design choices. it can be a non-issue for most code. the code it affects most people don't even look at. 13.09.17 # * linuxstb is also curious to know the power consumption of running different combinations of COP/CPU at different clock speeds 13.09.23 # jhMikeS: I beg to differ on that 13.09.33 # threads come back to byte 13.09.34 Quit ddalton ("leaving") 13.09.36 # bite even 13.09.44 Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) 13.10.24 # hmmm...then my brain is really odd 13.10.56 # i like the way we can control the execution flow now anyway 13.11.02 # no need for critical sections or other stuff 13.11.08 # Spaetzchen: Does the manual have instructions for using voice files? 13.11.29 # apart from disabling interrupts, that is... 13.11.33 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 13.11.33 # but there is a need, and that's just cooperatively. it's not a crutch for improper locking. 13.11.50 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13.11.54 # yes, but it's only in english ;-) 13.12.02 # so I don't know how to do this ;-) 13.12.07 # I try it again ;_) 13.12.31 # if you don't have complete control over what called code does, it affords no luxury 13.12.53 # ok, rockbox is again on the player 13.12.57 # but what must I do now? 13.13.12 # Spaetzchen: find someone who can translate the manual for you 13.13.31 # I'd have no intention of getting fancy with every part. just certain subsystems which are rather easy to control. 13.13.55 # but i do agree with linuxstb as far as not needing to make every part of rockbox dualcore aware goes 13.14.03 # the problem is 13.14.08 # i guess translating the manual for release would be a goal to strive for 13.14.10 # but i suspect a good part of the changes will be needed anyway even for limited support 13.14.11 # there stands only ONE sentense 13.14.28 # but there doesn't stands how to use it 13.14.34 # DefineByte: if we find people with enough boredom in their lives, sure 13.14.43 # and the background isn't there, too :( 13.14.47 # preglow: Yes, I suspect that as well... 13.14.50 # preglow: that would be overkill even though I can conceive of a construction to make UI multithread safe with no bunches of mutexes. 13.15.02 # there isn't a background by default 13.15.08 # you have to add one 13.15.12 # I downloaded a theme 13.15.18 # and I installed it 13.15.23 # where did you put it? 13.15.23 # but I don't see it 13.15.31 # in .rockbox 13.15.32 # but just closing our eyes on dualcore sure as hell isn't a way to go if we ever want to support ipods properly 13.15.37 # it may need patches 13.15.38 # there's certain places where avoiding threading actually makes for nasty workarounds. 13.15.43 # what theme was it? 13.15.46 # backdrops 13.15.53 # WVA 13.15.55 # Spaetzchen: did you look into the "enabling speech support" paragraph in the installing section of the manual? 13.16.04 # yes 13.16.10 # I did what there stands 13.16.30 # copy the file in the .rockbox/langs 13.16.33 # I did this 13.16.40 # btw, we only have english voices for download 13.16.48 # I know 13.17.08 # what file? 13.17.29 # http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles - here I found german 13.17.33 # where do you have it from? 13.17.39 # preglow: the dual core SPC code runs nicely with echo running on both cores simulataneously and it was just a quicky thing. 13.17.57 # Spaetzchen: those are outdated you can't use them currently 13.18.12 # ... as is mentioned on that very same page 13.18.13 # oh 13.18.19 # this isn't good :( 13.18.21 # (with a current build that is) 13.19.04 # as I said "we only have english voices for download" 13.19.05 # and one major factor in properly supporting such threading reliably is a proper kernel synchronization object set. 13.19.14 # hm, outdated stands at the end of this page 13.19.32 # Spaetzchen: then start over from the top again 13.19.40 # -start +stands 13.19.44 # especially this line: "Pick one of these if you are running an older daily build of Rockbox." 13.19.48 # ach 13.19.50 # heck, good threading use even fixes the emulator slowness and it runs just like the real thing 13.20.19 Quit class37 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13.20.38 # mom, I'm searching someone who speaks english and german ;-) 13.20.56 # proper sync primitives is a must anyway if you're going to use the other core at all 13.21.11 Join webguest94 [0] (i=521d0260@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-193f5e7de276c43a) 13.21.43 # http://www.rockbox.org/voices/sansae200-20070905-english.voice 13.21.43 # Spaetzchen: did you chose german as the language on your player? 13.21.48 # you need this voice file 13.21.56 # yes 13.22.05 # and in the files I found on this site I showed 13.22.08 # there stand 13.22.09 # s 13.22.14 # one big one is thread_wait, but there's also semaphore and events. these benefit single-core as well by helping get rid of while(cond) yield() stuff that blows up all the time. 13.22.22 # deutsch-lh-stefan-20060602.zip 13.22.31 # and I downloaded this 13.22.35 # that won't work 13.22.49 # hm 13.23.00 # only the englisch one? 13.23.06 # yes 13.23.13 # at the moment 13.23.16 # and the english one talks only in english or tries he to speak german? ;-) 13.23.21 # Spaetzchen: you can only use the file DefineByte linked you to - only that one is currently available 13.23.35 # "we only have english voices for download" 13.23.44 # anyone notices the echo? 13.23.50 # ok, the german one under this means what? 13.23.50 # it's english or nothing currently 13.24.16 # so the words are programmed or the letters? 13.24.41 # but if you want to try out voice in general as the start you can have the text shown on german and have it talking in english 13.25.01 # I'm constantly fixing bugs related to yield patterns that vary from target to target. That's where this cooperative stuff breaks down to preemtive behavior. You may consider a "suprise" yield to be equivalent to preemption. 13.25.34 Quit Nimdae (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13.25.57 # ddalton: around? 13.27.09 # yes 13.27.22 # why? 13.27.59 # you would need to download the english voice file (as it says in the manual), copy it to your player at the appropriate place and rename it to deutsch.voice - then after a reboot and if you're really chose the "deutsch" language, it starts talking (in english) but at least you'll have the menus and so on in german 13.28.16 # (as text) 13.28.25 # oki, mom, I try it 13.28.53 # jhMikeS: i've still got a feeling pre-emptive multitasking will hamper us more than help us 13.29.00 # what does mom mean by the way? 13.29.41 # sorry, mom means in german Moment ;-) so I would like to say, wait a moment pls ;-) 13.29.53 # :) 13.30.37 # I downloaded it what Byte linked, but 13.30.43 # I can't use it 13.30.45 # jhMikeS: whie(cond) yield(); is nasty anyway, unless the condition is only true for a very short time. Otherwise while(cond) sleep(1); is much much better 13.30.58 # my program said that he can't find a program to use this file 13.30.58 Quit webguest94 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 13.31.03 # preglow: no worry, it's still cooperative per core 13.32.05 # just put it in the right place. you dont do anything with it apart from renaming it 13.32.14 # amiconn: if it's multithreaded code, the condition may go true-false-true and no longer apply by the time the waiting thread runs again. 13.32.22 # (or better, sleep(0)) 13.32.24 # ddalton: regarding 7704, what do you think about just committing the stripped down patch you made? It doesnt have any impact on the english voice and/or lang file, just makes the talk functions available through plugin_api and splits out the talk_enum.h header. 13.32.40 # this way, plugins could at least do stuff like talk_number and talk_id if we do not need any additional strings. 13.33.22 # sleep(0) will equal yield() as anything I've programmed makes a zero delay a simple giving up of remaining CPU burst. 13.35.14 # I think it would be a good idea. Then we could just create a fix and commit that later. 13.35.18 # of course with these changes I'll evaluate all scheduler use globally. 13.35.49 # ddalton: great. 13.36.15 # sleep(0) should sleep until the end of the current tick, unless a bug got introduced 13.37.03 Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3F99A.dip.t-dialin.net) 13.37.10 # Are you going to commit? 13.37.11 # sleep(1) would actually accomplish that since the end of the current tick is when the tick changes. 13.37.32 # ddalton: talk-plugin.diff looks simple enough anyway, can you commit it? 13.37.34 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 13.37.35 # ok, he speaks now with me in english ;-) 13.37.52 # you got there eventually :) 13.38.06 # I don't have svn access 13.38.18 # ddalton: ah, IC. thought you had. 13.38.34 # have you got it? 13.38.40 # no :-) 13.38.43 # amiconn: unless you want to round up so that sleep(x) could sleep x+1 ticks 13.38.44 # rasher: ? :-) 13.39.04 # can you code? 13.39.04 # jhMikeS: It used to do that... 13.39.11 # so now I did the right thing to install the speech? I have the german settings and the english voice for this, is this right now? 13.39.30 # ddalton: me? I wrote this patch, yes... 13.39.50 # yeah, not really proper imo. if you want to sleep x+1 ticks, why not write sleep(x+1) ? 13.39.54 Join akaias [0] (n=akaias@c-67-175-173-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 13.39.58 # yes, that's right. it's the best you can do at the mom :) 13.40.18 # coooooool, thx a lot 13.40.26 # and now to my second problem ;-) 13.40.29 # the themes ;-) 13.40.38 # ok can you fix p7705 if you have time? It adds voice for battery bench but I would like to see how you check if voice menus is enabled. I don't really have time to update 13.41.06 # rb->voice_menus_enabled() 13.41.09 # delYsid: so how should the voice file be done do you think? 13.41.14 # jhMikeS: It's just nasty to change behaviour in that way if it was different before 13.41.18 # in an if? 13.41.27 # if (what you said before) 13.41.40 # I think some of the newer problems might be due to this behaviour change 13.41.42 # ddalton: yes. 13.41.47 # so if(rb->voice_menus_enabled()) 13.41.58 # there was no behavior change in SVN 13.41.59 # yes 13.42.06 # ok how should we do the voice file do you think? 13.42.19 # ddalton: no idea yet :-( 13.42.51 # but getting 7704 (the tsecond patch) committed would be a first step to get things moving. 13.42.53 # I see what your saying about using strings from english.lang but I think we could just re do them in plugin.voice for example 13.43.02 # but I have no idea yet how to code the secondary voice file thing 13.43.09 # yep and then write the fix 13.43.27 # yes 13.43.37 # I employed the change in a later revision my code. I thing most code assumes sleep(10) means "sleep 100ms" not 110ms. 13.44.00 # I tried to take the WVA-theme into my player, but it doesn't work 13.44.01 # what's the name of the theme you installed, Spaetzchen? 13.44.29 # jhMikeS: There was. At least back in times of the simple round-robin scheduler, sleep(0) slept until the end of the current tick 13.44.42 # what's the name of the theme you installed, Spaetzchen? 13.45.04 # jhMikeS: 100 or 110ms, both won't be exact 13.45.08 # WVA 13.45.26 # ddalton: but I think we will need a secondary voice file and load both (the english.voice and plugin.voice), because there is potentially a lot of duplication. Think about talk_number or talk_value 13.45.29 # The old behaviour let it sleep for 100..110ms, current svn lets it sleep for 90..100ms instead 13.45.30 # didn't mean to post that twice 13.45.31 # :o 13.45.31 # This revision is snappy. Thread wakeups never wait. Latencies are cut 13.45.50 # http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=176x220x16 13.45.58 # I found it there 13.46.04 # u asked for the theme ;-) 13.46.06 # amiconn: I remember seeing tick = current_tick + 1 in current SVN 13.46.22 # jhMikeS: I'm referring to the tick granularity 13.46.46 # how would that have changed? 13.47.09 # that theme should work on the standard build 13.47.20 # I got to go but maybe plugin.voice and then we do something like lang v2 and if certain players don't have certain plugins there will be less clips. 13.47.27 # Probably to many voice files! 13.48.04 # so just plugin.voice for all targets maybe and then we just add everything in to that for the plugins including the numbers 13.48.07 # Spaetzchen: how did you install it? 13.48.11 # and letres 13.48.12 # 100 should actually be 95-105 ms and average 100 over the long term 13.49.11 # btw: round-robin is a term used for preemtive multitasking. the correct term is FCFS (first-come-first-serve). 13.49.12 # No, it's not 13.49.22 Quit ddalton ("leaving") 13.49.37 # It enters sleep state anywhere within a tick period, but always wakes up at a tick period boundary 13.49.54 # hm, I can't remember, I think I dezipped it in the sansa 13.50.14 # And you're right, the +1 is still there so sleep(0) works as I expected 13.50.23 # where? in the root? 13.50.36 # in .rockbox 13.50.37 # and then you selected it in 'browse themes'? 13.50.41 # no 13.50.46 # not there 13.50.50 # hm 13.51.03 Quit advcomp2019 ("Leaving") 13.51.20 # unzio it to the same place you unzipped rockbox 13.51.33 # unzip/ 13.51.46 # yes, I unzipped it in J: 13.51.50 # this is my player 13.51.59 # well that's right then 13.52.07 # sorry, I'm a little bit confused ;) 13.52.17 # but it doesn't work 13.52.26 # the processor may wake at the tick period boundary, but the thread may have threads ahead of it doing something but that's usually a couple ms delay tops for a turnaround. 13.52.30 # did you select it in 'browse themes' (or the german equivelent)? 13.53.02 # equivalent/ 13.53.15 # I don't know where it is 13.53.24 # I think I took it in .rockbox/themes 13.54.01 # The scheduler still executes ready to run tasks in FCFS order if priority isn't involved. just thread->next since the linked lists are circular. 13.54.39 Quit PaulJam (".") 13.55.02 # Spaetzchen: what did happen - did at least something change (background, icons)? 13.55.28 # not really ;) 13.55.50 # Spaetzchen: did you unzip it to J:\ or J:\.rockbox\themes? 13.56.03 # I didn't changed the names, I only changed the picture in background - but the same sizes 13.56.31 # I don't remember, but I think I unzipped it in J:\.rockbox ;-) 13.56.38 # that is wrong 13.56.51 # you are supposed to unzip it to J:\ 13.57.04 # Spaetzchen: do you have WVA.cfg in .rockbox/themes? 13.57.28 Quit GodEater_ (Connection timed out) 13.58.03 # yes I have this file in themes 13.59.18 # can you go to "General Settings > Display > Browse .wps files" and slect it 13.59.32 # select it 13.59.48 # in the player without or with computer? 13.59.59 # in the player 14.00.15 # disconnected from the computer 14.02.22 # I've only iCatcher, rockbox_default, Rockboxed and UniCatcher 14.02.26 # which one? 14.03.03 # they're the default themes. you don't want any of those 14.03.44 # from the main menu go to browse themes 14.03.50 # is it their? 14.04.04 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 14.04.42 # where I can find default themes? 14.04.43 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.05.10 # can you go to 'Browse Themes' in the main menu first 14.05.58 # Einstellungen > Zeige Themen ;) 14.06.11 # :D 14.06.16 # aaaaaah, thx, pixel :-) 14.06.28 # ok, I found this 14.06.32 # amiconn: another thing I changed is that packed statearg. timeouts will be the full 32 bits as expected and state kept is a separate byte which all the processors efficiently can load and extend. 14.06.36 # and I took WV 14.06.37 # A 14.06.38 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@rockbox/contributor/Genre9mp3) 14.06.43 # but nothing new 14.06.52 # play a song 14.07.09 # and it should show 14.07.11 # I've no songs on it ;-) 14.07.27 # you'll have to wait then :p 14.07.37 # mom, I try ;-) 14.08.03 # Spaetzchen: mom is short for mother in english 14.08.18 # american english/ 14.08.42 # well, we're all americanized outside britain anyway 14.08.44 # well that theme has also a different look in the browsers and menus if it's not broken somehow 14.09.05 # i'm inside britain! x) 14.09.19 # DefineByte: you use use 'mom' as short for "one moment" ? 14.09.28 # and I've never used "mom" in german for Moment ... 14.09.30 # no 14.09.33 # i don't 14.09.39 # I didn't think so either 14.09.47 # sorry ;-) 14.09.48 # amiconn: bringing things back in my code to the usual sleep behavior is just about 3 lines change if that's preferred. 14.09.52 # I'm too german ;-) 14.09.59 # so I took 3 songs on the player 14.10.06 # BUT I don't know where to find 14.10.13 # Spaetzchen: pixelma happens to be german too... 14.10.24 # where did you put them? 14.10.37 # maybe regional differences ;) 14.10.52 # or age? :-) 14.11.02 # I put it in music 14.11.04 # hey, maybe he's swiss 14.11.11 # did he say he was german? 14.11.16 # I can understand swiss :) 14.11.18 # anyway... :) 14.11.55 # then from the main menu go to 'files' (or whatever it is in german) and browse to the files 14.12.02 # for what it's worth, that theme works fine in a Sansa simulator here... 14.12.20 # hey, it's got to be worth something 14.12.37 # given the track history, I bet Spaetzchen only tell us half of what he actually does 14.12.52 # ... so this will never work 14.12.55 # not he, she ;-) 14.13.12 # I have no music in "files" 14.13.12 # sorry, didn't spot that! ;-) 14.13.26 # a male would probably not pick that nick ;) 14.13.34 # hihi 14.13.48 # well, my german is... eh, lacking a bit 14.13.48 # we'd probably have to speak german to know that xD 14.13.50 # but I can't find the music 14.13.56 # LOL 14.14.09 # you didn't put the music in .rockbox did you? 14.14.12 # hm 14.14.18 # under root I found it 14.14.33 # and there is no theme, no picture, nothing :( 14.14.46 # * B4gder offers DefineByte the "I have patience of steel" badge to wear for the rest of the day 14.14.52 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p54BD2AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 14.15.01 # good morning :) 14.15.21 # thanks *attaches badge with pride* 14.15.27 # * petur yawns 14.15.31 # and now? 14.15.57 # one mom (x)) 14.16.02 # hihi 14.16.08 # yes I have only one mom ;-) 14.17.08 # Spaetzchen: I don't know I had no problem with that theme - just unzipped it to the root (of the simulator in my case) and selected it through "browse themes" - there it was 14.18.17 # ok, how can I delete these theme and install it again? 14.18.57 Join Kupopop [0] (n=Jono@cpc1-bsfd2-0-0-cust26.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) 14.18.58 # do you have a directory called .rockbox IN .rockbox? 14.19.04 # * B4gder calls for theme support in rbutil... 14.19.10 # yes 14.19.29 # it would be great if you could drag a theme onto rbutil and it automatically installs 14.19.50 # the directory you put the music in - is that the "Music" directory that the Sansa original uses (I seem to vaguely remember that this one is marked hidden by default, could be wrong though) 14.19.53 # yes for women like me ;-) 14.20.03 # DefineByte: I believe it'll even interact with the theme site to allow downloads etc 14.20.04 # doesn't rb util already install themes ? 14.20.21 # no there is no rockbox in rockbox 14.20.25 # sansa finds music on any directories 14.20.31 # just tested it few hours ago 14.20.32 # preglow: do you feel it's better to have 1% of the code sophisticated to make 99% of the code simpler or the other way? Sometime I get the impression the other way is preferred here. I also point to queue_send which paid for itself at twice over in bin size when first added. 14.20.40 # no idea where you may have out it then 14.21.31 # put/ 14.21.39 # Spaetzchen: you have to be accurate: is there a "rockbox" or a ".rockbox" directory there - the . at the beginning is important 14.21.46 Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@pnsgw1-client208.demo.tuwien.ac.at) 14.22.17 # its called .rockbox with ... 14.22.28 Part norbusan 14.23.05 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF518E.dip.t-dialin.net) 14.23.37 # hmm... should be alright then - and inside it there are other directories like "themes", "wps", "fonts" and "backdrops"? 14.23.45 # as far as rbutil's theme installation; i'd still like to be able to drag themes onto it. if only to qucikly test my own (outside the sim :)) 14.23.56 # yes 14.24.25 # DefineByte: I'm sure your contributions to bring that feature will be appreciated! 14.24.41 # i'm sure they would be :D 14.24.53 # Spaetzchen: and in "backdrops" for example, is there a "WVA.bmp"? 14.25.00 # yes :) 14.25.34 # is WVA.wps and a WVA folder in '.rockbox/wps'? 14.25.42 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) 14.25.55 # see, this is the kind of stuff i want rbutil to generate a lsupport ticket for xD 14.26.07 Quit Hellmark ("Leaving") 14.27.47 # i guess rbutil could verify the directory structure itself. 14.28.06 # LOL 14.28.07 # no 14.28.43 # now it is in there :) 14.28.59 # how on earth did you install it? 14.29.00 # reboot 14.29.08 # sounds like you didn't just unzip it 14.29.10 # huiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 14.29.30 # I unzipped it, but only in the player ;-) 14.29.35 # not the right way :) 14.29.41 # but now it's there :) 14.29.45 # thxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 14.29.59 # and all the other files are in the right place too? 14.30.17 # I think so 14.30.48 # there should be 4 files in .rockbox/icons 14.31.17 # I'll look :) 14.31.30 # tango_small.bmp 14.31.30 # tango_small_viewers.bmp 14.31.30 # tango_small_viewers.icons 14.31.30 DBUG Enqueued KICK DefineByte 14.31.30 # and tango_small_viewers.icons 14.32.25 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 14.32.49 # I've only one in icons 14.32.57 # its called viewers 14.33.30 # unzip WVA.zip again 14.33.41 # ok, now I have everything in it :) 14.33.54 # unzip .rockbox in WVA.zip into the root directory (j:) 14.35.14 # I unzipped it again in J: 14.35.30 # and can you select it? 14.35.51 # mom, reboot 14.35.55 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 14.35.55 # * DerPapst just returned from dinner... 14.35.56 # sorry ;-) 14.36.02 # accepted 14.36.04 # sec, reboot ;-) 14.36.49 # yes 14.36.53 # now it looks good :) 14.37.09 # so you're all sorted? that's great 14.38.00 Join MarkVeinot [0] (n=vmark@fctnnbsc16w-142166033020.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) 14.38.22 # yes, it lookes very good, thank you all a lot ;-) 14.38.31 # but I've a little question at the end ;-) 14.38.39 # xD 14.38.59 # my display goes out after 5 sec 14.39.10 # you mean the backlight? 14.39.11 # where can I change this? 14.39.14 # jhMikeS: i feel it's only natural for a project the size of rockbox to have code not everybody understands at first glance anyway 14.39.15 # yes 14.39.24 # Is there a location to download the latest builds of the sansa bootloader? I would like to take advantage of the reduced USB timeout that was introduced yesterday. 14.39.27 # Spaetzchen: try to search for the backlight settings in the manual ;) 14.39.30 # settings>display>lcd i think 14.39.32 # it's not like anyone here could jump in bugfix the eq in five minutes 14.39.39 # einstellungen > ... dunno 14.39.42 # :P 14.40.17 # but you want it to turn off or it will use a lot of the battery 14.40.38 # Einstellungen > Grundeinstellungen > Anzeige > LCD-Einstellungen > Beleuchtung 14.40.55 # thx :) 14.40.58 # that's what i said.... ^^ 14.41.02 # not its perfect 14.41.08 # preglow: indeed...I'd include myself in that category...and as a supplement to that, I wouldn't attempt to bugfix the eq without knowing it inside-out first. 14.41.13 # thank you a lot 14.41.16 # preglow: True, but eq is different - it's one feature that nothing else depends on. If the worst came to the worst, we couldjust rmeove it from Rockbox. We couldn't do that with the kernel, (or playback.c, etc) 14.41.26 # now I can to to work :-) 14.41.37 # enjoy Rockbox Spaetzchen 14.41.40 # thanks a lot and I hope I see you all again :) 14.41.41 # thx :) 14.41.46 # you go to work at 14:50? 14.41.50 # heh 14.41.58 # and read the manual a bit 14.41.59 # no, at 15:30 14.42.09 # heh 14.42.10 # and I must go in 20 mins 14.42.12 # linuxstb_: true, but we're approaching a point where we _have_ to add some complexity to it in order for rockbox to expand in the same way it has 14.42.19 # have fun ;) 14.42.20 # thx and cu :-) 14.42.23 # the manual could be a big problem for non-english speakers 14.42.24 # thx :) 14.42.25 # we can't just count on never seeing another dual core cpu 14.42.28 # bye 14.42.30 # preglow: Also, I think we should learn from past failings - there are lots of bits of Rockbox which are in effect unmaintained. All I'm saying is that we should do whatever we can to avoid that situation getting worse. 14.42.31 Quit Spaetzchen ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14.42.36 # linuxstb_: but the DSP couldn't be removed for sure. adding the ASM limited the number of possible maintainers but the benefits were outstanding. 14.43.18 # linuxstb_: again true, but i don't think keeping everything so dead simple everyone can understand it is a good solution 14.43.21 # that way lies horrible hacks 14.43.29 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") 14.43.49 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC") 14.43.52 # preglow: precisely, the hacks that add the complexity and bugs to the other 99% 14.43.57 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 14.43.59 # I don't think we disagree - I'm just saying any complexity needs to be justified. 14.44.00 # yeah 14.44.11 # and i think you're right in rockbox having a bit too many of them too :/ 14.44.31 # sure, and i don't think you can get any more justified than "good dual core support" 14.44.33 Quit ptw419 () 14.44.56 # * jhMikeS say: (K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid (M)aybe (Y)et (A)s (S)implicity (S)uffices :D 14.45.05 # hahahaha 14.45.30 # a bit on the fancy side of semantics :> 14.46.02 # :P 14.48.24 # but anyway, i would be surprised if the majority of jhMikeS' patch isn't just stuff that already should be familiar to any os level programmer 14.49.09 # my biggest worry is quite frankly that we're going dual core on a chip we have no documentation for 14.50.11 # the biggest headache has been the cache actually...but it seems that overlapping cache lines is the reason. 14.50.28 # jhMikeS: What's the state of your dual-core work? Is the failure of the PP5020 to play fair still holding things up? 14.50.29 # overlapping cache lines??? 14.50.53 # linuxstb_: yes...that's it. it runs and passes the tests on e200 14.51.19 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@38.98.196.75) 14.51.21 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.51.29 # jhMikeS: And you still don't have a 5020 to test on? 14.51.50 # preglow: when processor A has it's own copy of an address range that B also has a it's own copy of but they've each modified or read that range in their own way at different times. 14.52.01 # linuxstb_: one should be coming up. 14.52.16 # i don't get how the hell you find out what the hell is wrong with stuff like this :P 14.52.31 # preglow: guess? 14.52.35 # i would have scratched my ass for about a week, then given up 14.52.51 # jhMikeS is a secret PP employee working under cover here 14.52.55 # hehe 14.53.12 # One that's lost the PP5020 datasheet and only has the PP5022? 14.53.12 # tainting rockbox with IP 14.53.24 # I theorize for weeks and an answer usually pops in my head when I'm outside smoking 14.53.35 # luckily, the rest of us are FBI agents under cover trying to find the actual rockbox devs 14.53.51 # preglow: The overlapping cache lines issue is pretty obvious once you found it to be the reason 14.54.01 # * jhMikeS is CIA and Secret Service with Top Secret clearance 14.54.23 # then you can find mrh for us and force him to code for free 24/7? :> 14.54.34 # ...and possesses an alien scanning device found at the Roswell crash site 14.54.46 # what, sansa doesn't support microsdhc ? 14.54.57 # how cool :P 14.55.04 # hehe, yes 14.55.14 # hehe...but we don't don't either ... because we have no hologram sticker 14.55.26 # that's just weird, i would have thought they'd be jumping at coding support for that 14.55.43 # preglow: they probably rather force people to buy a new player for it 14.55.53 # do they have any? 14.56.02 # yes i think so, at least in the pipe 14.56.13 # orly 14.56.40 # how easy is it to get hold of a machine cabable of producing holograms? 14.56.46 # if we paint SDHC on the side of the players by the slot, it will be official and commence to operate properly 14.56.53 # capable/ 14.57.22 # a business idea presents itself! we should demand users buy stickers in order to use feature upgrades! 14.57.25 # maybe the player can sense whether the sticker is official or not 14.57.26 # if you can build a scanning/tunneling microscope from legos, I'm sure one could be fabricated in the kitchen (I really think so) 14.57.33 # a gapless playback sticker, an eq sticker, an mpegplayer sticker... 14.57.52 # lol...I'm sure rb will need quite a set of them 14.57.52 # crossfeed sticker please 14.58.55 # hey, it's a way to bring funds in and make player updates official 15.01.37 # i'm a genious! 15.01.42 Join RudMan [0] (n=RudMan@167.206.188.130) 15.02.07 # * DerPapst wants a sticker too 15.02.21 Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.02.47 # a long battery life one please :) 15.02.57 # with an iPod crossed out 15.03.15 # a sticker for mp3 players would actually be kind of cool :> 15.03.29 # i'd buy one 15.03.43 # like one covering the entire back of this smudged up nano i have 15.04.12 # i'd like one for my portable amp too 15.04.52 # rockbox should open a cafepress store or something 15.05.11 # you know, I don't get why a multiprocessor config would need multiple caches. using one shared one would always be coherent among all said processors. 15.05.30 # DefineByte, http://www.cafepress.com/rockboxfirmware 15.05.43 # jhMikeS: yet they almost never are configured like that 15.05.50 # is that official? 15.05.59 # yes 15.06.05 # read the announcements forum ;-) 15.06.19 # now all we need is a prettier logo :> 15.06.20 # bah, read? 15.06.52 # run a competition 15.07.00 # win a gigabeat 15.07.03 # or sansa 15.07.06 # or something 15.07.08 # heh 15.07.15 # The current logo is fine imo, I wouldn't want another 15.07.26 # preglow: unless they bus snoop, they should be. less conflict would exist. ok, patent application goes out tomorrow. ;) 15.07.28 # okay old man, stuck in his ways 15.07.29 # I like the logo 15.07.29 # or a daily rockbox update guarantie 15.08.08 Join iamben [0] (n=ben@dpc67142179038.direcpc.com) 15.08.15 # *warranty :P 15.08.24 # "We guarantee this Rockbox was made freshly this morning" 15.08.31 # jhMikeS: i think the newer multicore amds have a shared level 3 cache, but that's the only shared cache i know of in multicore design 15.08.47 # linuxstb_: exactly :D 15.09.07 # "We guarantee this Rockbox was probably made freshly this morning" 15.09.12 # be careful there 15.09.32 # I forgot to add "... or your money back." 15.09.43 # using only organic whole-grain bits 15.09.52 # how about 110% refund? 15.09.56 # it should be possible t do at least one commit per day.. even if it's only code policeing ;) 15.10.16 # preglow: as long as they're closely packed on the same die I can't imaging it should be much trouble. I wonder if it's easy to mirror-image a circuit on a wafer and have it function identically. 15.11.14 # DerPapst: that means 3 per day... 1 commit and 2 oops ones :) 15.11.19 # that cafepress link should be on the frontpage. (it isn't, right x)) 15.11.30 # haha 15.12.14 # the mug looks quite good. 15.12.16 # * jhMikeS is getting too far out right now 15.12.31 # JdGordon: Any progress with your e200tool experiments, or are you doing other things? 15.12.43 # about to have a nother go.. 15.13.00 # JdGordon: what experiments? 15.13.05 # * JdGordon is more tired and less sober than last night, so doesnt expect much :p 15.13.17 # * linuxstb_ points austriancoder to all the e200r discussions over the past few days 15.13.17 # austriancoder: trying to get something safer for e200r 15.13.21 # preglow: out of nescessity, the sim threading will function identically to core threading...blocking and all. it could even be used as a simplified reference to the kernel. 15.13.26 # if a beer glass ias added i'm there 15.13.33 # is/ 15.14.17 # austriancoder: Basically, JdGordon is working on an application to be uploaded via e200tool in manufacturer mode which will patch the bootloader stored on disk. That part of the disk is hidden via Sansa's UMS driver. 15.14.44 # linuxstb_: ahh ... i see 15.15.29 Quit Nick_Brackley ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/0000000000]") 15.15.35 # jhMikeS: hmm, that makes me wonder, shouldn't we really be having more bugs with the sim due to the pre-emptive multitasking? 15.15.48 # threads are serialized there 15.16.09 # explain :> 15.16.32 # basically it simulates cooperative multitasking by running preemptive threads in turn 15.16.50 # is that so 15.16.56 # sure is 15.17.21 # Is there a location to download the latest builds of the sansa bootloader? 15.17.22 # linuxstb_: good news... dont know if you read before about my testing method... but with ata_init() i get 2 different flashing speeds which means we might be lucky :) 15.17.50 # preglow: It has always been like that 15.18.06 # but one thing in the sim should run preemtively: the disk io. I have a following update for that and the sim runs so much better. It sort of acts like it has a DMA channel. 15.18.53 # i would welcome the sim running better, i want to use it as my main music player 15.18.56 # but it's too sluggish here 15.19.06 # JdGordon: Is this with my original 2 changes applied? 15.19.12 # yes 15.19.35 # JdGordon: I only briefly looked at the Sansa ata_init(), but can it actually fail? 15.19.37 # it employs yielding within rockbox threads while an IO does the read/write at the same time. huge improvement. 15.19.46 # JdGordon: ata_init()? what're you working on? 15.19.55 # any seeking in mpegplayer yet? 15.19.57 # linuxstb_: dunno.. but at least its running which is one up on this morning 15.20.15 # How big is bootloader.bin now? 15.21.00 # 40048 bytes 15.21.23 # preglow: all the lag during disk access just goes away, mpegplayer plays video smoothly at all times and such...so this whole patch is really just kernel improvement in general 15.21.33 # JdGordon: Sounds promising. Hopefully we can go all the way up to 112KB (from 40004000 to the end of IRAM) if we need to. 15.21.46 # but the IO updates would be committed separately since it's sort of outside the scope 15.21.56 # i wonder.... afaik rockbox doesn't allow anonymous contributions.... what is about the e200tool if JdGordon succeeds? 15.22.16 # JdGordon: Ideally we would want to append the Rockbox bootloader mi4 to the code you're uploading, so the app can do the sansapatcher stuff as well. But that's definitely for v2. 15.22.45 # DerPapst: its not doing anything special.. its just using libusb so should be easy to reimplement... 15.22.58 # ok. 15.23.04 # preglow: changes to most files are just tiny compatibility changes (like a rename from struct event to struct queue_event to make way for actual event sync primitives) 15.23.09 Part DefineByte 15.23.34 # or MrH decides to pick some random name :P 15.24.55 # preglow: the sim could probabaly compile and use the actual rockbox kernel the way it's set up 15.24.58 # yes, i look forward to the day Eiben Scrood commits code 15.25.19 # jhMikeS: would be nifty :) 15.25.51 # thread.c of course not shared - too much SDL stuff 15.27.12 # * jhMikeS will now shut up since everyone must be bored with threads now :) 15.27.45 # ATA works :D 15.27.58 # * JdGordon just booted rockbox from manufac mode 15.28.25 # which promptly rebooted because it found the usb connection :p 15.28.44 # hehe 15.28.45 # JdGordon: how much worked as pasted? or how much didn't? 15.28.54 Quit MarkVeinot (Remote closed the connection) 15.28.58 # using svn ata-e200.c 15.29.05 # ah 15.30.02 # thought it required to be size-reduced 15.30.03 # what're you doing? 15.30.20 # JdGordon: ;) 15.30.31 Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!") 15.30.51 # jhMikeS: we were mislead by the asm from e200tool... 15.31.06 # so we dont appear to have it that problem again just yet 15.31.27 # preglow: trying to get a safe install method for the e200r 15.31.48 # * jhMikeS puts an SDHC sticker on e200-tool 15.35.09 # so I haven't been following too close lately. e200r actually can boot and run rb now? 15.35.31 # yea 15.35.45 # from manuf mode atleast 15.35.54 # no, for real too 15.36.00 # hey, the iPhone's been both JTAG'd and cracked, so let's get going :) 15.36.43 # * DerPapst downloads iphone 15.38.53 # B4gder: it's replacing the original bootloader with one that makes no sig check? 15.39.00 # yes 15.39.16 # or rather brings back the sig check flaw 15.39.24 # I thought you didn't know where it was 15.39.32 # we figured it out 15.39.43 # == on the same place as the vanilla ones 15.39.55 # the R models just hide the second partition when shown over usb 15.40.20 # hidden for real you could say ;-) 15.41.46 # * jhMikeS doesn't understand why the companies just don't give up the futile efforts ... The walls of Jericho and all... :) 15.42.16 # in this case, they probably try to keep their DRM hidden or safe or something 15.42.19 # have to do even lame attempt to use dmca 15.43.50 # anyone want to have a guess as to why the lcd is useless in manufac mode, but once rockbox is loaded from disk it works? (the init sequence is all ifdef BOOTLOADER)... 15.44.23 # because it's actually initialized already but not used and no backlight? 15.45.41 # ... but the debug messages at the end of the bootloader should be visiable, but they arent shown untill rockbox is loaded.. 15.45.59 # I checked by sticking a while(1); before the return in the bootloader main() 15.46.13 # framebuffer is still the OF framebuffer and needs to be set to something else probably 15.46.57 # thats done in lcd_init() 15.47.20 # It's already called by the time mm starts? 15.47.25 Join webguest54 [0] (i=55678507@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7a3836bfd5cd81ce) 15.47.36 # ?? 15.48.09 Quit webguest54 (Client Quit) 15.48.10 # lcd_init_device does change it over but not until rockbox itself boots 15.48.20 Join nicktastic [0] (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic) 15.50.59 Quit sslashes ("leaving") 15.51.10 Quit hcs ("Leaving.") 15.52.49 # jhMikeS: doesnt line 411 do that? 15.52.55 # 412 even 15.54.05 # no, line 427 for rockbox boot 15.55.08 # ? the #else is !BOOTLOADER 15.55.47 # yeah 15.56.02 # i want to get the lcd actually working in the bootloader... 15.56.50 Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@15.32.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) 15.57.23 Join sslashes [0] (i=sslashes@209.67.252.122) 15.57.30 # so the BOOTLOADER part is being called already? not quite following here. 15.58.23 # someone should also take a look at the lcd corruption on older (?) sansas 15.58.37 # its going mm -> our bootloader -> rockbox (from disk)... no lcd works untill the rockbox starts running.. but I need lcd in our bootloader... so yeah that code should have run by then 15.58.38 # tumu: it would be newer sansas 15.58.42 # tumu: patch committed today 15.58.48 # oh 15.58.49 # tumu: eh, we fixed that today 15.58.56 # heh 15.59.05 # have missed it 15.59.22 # its been fixed for aaaaages :*) 15.59.34 # and now you tell me that! 15.59.35 # * JdGordon opening can of worms... buuuutt..... 15.59.42 # :x 15.59.47 Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) 15.59.58 # JdGordon: And the bl is just our plain vanilla one? maybe some other register is only being set by firmware and not bl :\ 15.59.59 # there is a comment "All this magic worked out by Mrh"... how is that OK with our no anon code? 16.00.21 # JdGordon: because we use information from other sources than just devs 16.00.50 # and yeah, there are some gray areas 16.00.51 # so that wasnt a striaght copy/paste of his code? 16.01.00 # nope 16.02.14 # jhMikeS: could it be the resetting all devices in system_init() which is ifndef bootloader? 16.03.26 # that really only was needed to take care of audio problems...lcd worked before that was added. 16.03.52 # .. well its not that :p nice and quick to test 16.04.49 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) 16.04.59 # JdGordon: did I ask? Does it show anything when holding to the light? If the AS3514 isn't initialized, you'll not get any backlight. 16.05.45 # its very black... 16.06.04 Quit qwm ("leaving") 16.07.35 Join bluebrother [0] (i=r1s98BOf@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) 16.07.36 # it's verified that the BL section is the one being compiled? hrm. 16.08.33 # hmm.. you may be right... im either dreaming.. or there is a very faint numbers on the lcd 16.08.39 # * JdGordon looks for better light source 16.08.56 # it of course won't write to lcd_driver_framebuffer if the backlight isn't on 16.09.07 Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.09.29 # hm, is getting current build enough for the lcd fix? 16.09.45 # tumu: should be 16.10.00 # still seeing corruption 16.10.07 # latest, not daily though 16.10.52 # yeah, latest 16.10.55 Join elinenbe [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 16.11.22 # r14620 16.12.01 # hmmm...yet another variant? 16.12.20 # i have e280 16.13.04 # that's 8 gig? 16.13.17 # yes 16.13.36 # * austriancoder too.. but i dont see any corruption 16.13.39 # it was tested on two versions of an e280 16.14.24 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@129.120.244.114) 16.14.30 # looking closely, it seems rockbox displays more lines at top than seen during the sandisk boot logo 16.16.40 # and some pixels change at the top while using the wheel, can't recall that happening before 16.16.57 # previously it was just static corruption 16.18.11 # seems the bin size might be about 57000 bytes 16.20.31 # * jhMikeS starts to develop a pentagram-shaped rash with the words "Portal Player" encircling it 16.20.47 # jhMikeS, i have the euro version without radio if that helps 16.21.04 # jhMikeS: you said the backlight wont work if the as3514 isnt init? 16.21.09 Part LinusN 16.21.17 # tumu: hmmm...I'll have to ask about that 16.21.42 # * austriancoder has also euro without radio 16.22.02 Join elinenbe_ [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 16.22.20 # JdGordon: most likely not if at least the i2c isn't ready 16.22.40 # hmm, the corruption disappeared 16.23.02 # tumu: did you do something in particular? 16.23.18 # no, just regular use 16.23.30 # might have been the screensaver, testing again 16.23.50 # jhMikeS: just the i2c_init() call in audiohw_init is important? or the whole thing? 16.24.30 # JdGordon: I don't think the rtc or anything should matter 16.24.37 # WOOOT! 16.24.40 # backlight is on 16.25.01 # tumu: did it normalize after backlight off or anything? 16.25.31 # _now_ we can start doing something useful... 16.25.42 # left it idle to trigger the backlight off few times but no change yet 16.25.47 # tumu: is it problematic to replace the bootloader? some code is only bootloader executed. 16.27.01 # not sure if the SVN bootloader should be tried or not unless it actually does work ok 16.27.18 # sansa svn bootloader works fine atm 16.27.31 # unless something in the last 2 days broke it 16.27.47 Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") 16.28.01 # hmm strange 16.28.16 # I think that might be the problem since LCD_REG_8 is only in the BOOTLOADER block 16.28.22 # it fixes after the saver is triggered 16.28.30 # but not everytime tho 16.28.56 # but when it fixes, it doesn't corrupt again 16.28.58 # tumu: I guess it's safe to try booloader from the latest build and see 16.29.18 # you're only getting half the fix in place without it 16.29.40 # oh 16.29.54 # how do i try the svn bootloader? 16.31.28 # JdGordon: sansapatcher? I've never actually changed my bl. :P 16.31.46 # yeah, sansapatcher -a PP5022.mi4 16.32.01 # JdGordon: to setup an SVN one? 16.32.07 # yeah 16.32.44 # I may dump the #ifdef BOOTLOADER because doing so seemed to stop the white screen. I'll check that again. 16.35.09 # are the -D options on gcc not passed to the linker? 16.35.59 # hmmm...nope...still white screen 16.36.15 # JdGordon: -D are for defines, the linker doesn't use defines 16.36.47 # i mean, whatever loads the .lds 16.37.01 # well, that's why we preprocess the lds file with the cpp 16.37.28 # before linking 16.37.57 # so where do I put my new define in the makefile so it works there? I've added it to EXTRA_DEFINES 16.38.26 # sorry, I don't have time to dig into that right now 16.38.46 # ok 16.38.47 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16.38.47 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 16.39.59 # do all the sansas with the "gunmetal" gray backs change color to silver when handled alot? mine's almost totally transformed. 16.40.36 # JdGordon: Am I understanding correctly that both LCD and ATA are working in your manufacturer mode app now? 16.40.39 # mm, chamelian 16.40.49 # linuxstb_: yep 16.41.04 # JdGordon: Nice... Have you tested ata read/writes ? 16.41.19 # linuxstb_: only by getting it to load rockbox from the disk 16.41.36 Join BobShield [0] (i=rshield@c-24-15-123-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 16.41.38 # Ah, so you basically have the Rockbox bootloader running in manufacturing mode? 16.41.49 # almost unmodified bootloader 16.41.55 # * jhMikeS wonders of what disk JdGordon speaks 16.42.12 # quiet you! 16.42.47 # JdGordon: So there should be no problems now... Do you know what to do for the patching? 16.42.54 # (or is that for another time?) 16.42.56 # not a clue :p 16.43.10 # its almost 1am so i should be going to bed... 16.43.40 Quit n17ikh|Lappy (Connection timed out) 16.43.41 # you're in australia? 16.43.56 # Download and compare the modified and original E200R bootloaders - you'll see that only four (consecutive) bytes are different. You'll need to find the disk sector containing that change (in the firmware partition), read it, modify it, then write it back.... 16.44.04 # * jhMikeS will shut up and listen to music on the patched kernel that's been running since he first came on IRC 16.44.21 # JdGordon: Plus of course all the safety checks you want to implement... 16.44.44 # both those bootloaders are availeble where? 16.44.57 # daniel.haxx.se? or sansas site? 16.45.13 # http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/BL_SD_boardSupportSD.btl-modified and http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/BL_SD_boardSupportSD.btl 16.45.23 # ok, cool 16.45.52 # the R BL is not available from sandisk, only by extracting from an actual target 16.45.59 # linuxstb_: whats the difference between USB_POWERED and USB_INSERTED ? 16.46.22 # USB_POWERED is a USB connection to a wall charger. USB_INSERTED is a USB connection to a computer. 16.46.59 # okay... 16.47.01 # The existing usb_detect() code is the only way we know to differentiate the two. 16.47.33 # Do you have a usb charger? 16.47.44 # linuxstb_: no 16.47.52 # AS3514 differentiates the two on e200 16.48.44 Join elinenbe_ [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 16.48.44 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16.48.48 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 16.50.10 Join fm2 [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-40edf64a68c52273) 16.50.20 # linuxstb_: I know whats going wrong in usb detection in usb stack, but i am looking why atm 16.50.26 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) 16.50.50 # How can I see how the USB mode was recognised (charger/comp)? 16.51.06 # fm2: What device? 16.51.24 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.51.50 # * JdGordon going to bed, cyaz 16.51.57 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") 16.52.53 Quit B4gder ("It is time to say MOOO") 16.54.09 # Febs: what do you think about FS#7714? I think it's confusing 16.54.57 # I've only had a chance to glance at it, but I noted in the comments one issue that I saw immediately. 16.55.16 # well, I just wrote a lenghty comment ;-) 16.55.50 Join _jz [0] (n=jz@ns1.april.org) 16.55.53 # <_jz> hallo 16.55.55 # <_jz> wow 16.56.03 # hallo. wow. 16.56.23 # <_jz> i boot my sensa e200 with the daily build and i got the skin that appears with "Data abort at 00045F80" on top, nothing much 16.56.38 # <_jz> only looong press allows me to shutdown, and same results afterwards 16.57.07 # Use the latest. Daily has a database bug 16.57.12 # bluebrother, Febs: is that the one which was posted to the forums first? 16.57.13 # <_jz> aah ok 16.57.41 # pixelma: not sure, but I guess so 16.58.05 # linuxstb: Sansa e280 with FM 17.00.42 # fm2: I'm not sure - IIUC, the Sansa doesn't reboot into the OF when you insert USB, which is what happens on other PP targets. 17.01.27 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@hdp186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 17.02.26 # linuxstb: I only ask because of the recent change in usb_detect. We want to tell usb charger from PC charger. Is it intended to show this somehow? 17.02.41 # bluebrother: there are also 2 mistakes in his new "first contact" section - Rockbox doesn't play ogg vorbis on the Archos devices and dual boot is also not possible everywhere or done differently (that's the first paragraph I read in the forums until I got confused). I also think he changes too much and don't see something that is more logical than before (very personal impression) 17.02.56 # haven't even read further... 17.03.01 # fm2: On other PP targets, Rockbox reboots into the OF's USB mode when a USB connection is detected - that's how you know... 17.03.51 # as far as I can tell he is completely sansa-centric and forgets about all others. And presents the user stuff that isn't completely correct and misleading. 17.03.52 # linuxstb: will it stay the same when the USB stack is implemented? 17.04.13 # fm2: When the USB stack is working, the Sansa will enter USB mode when it detects a USB connection... 17.04.21 # besides, I'm wondering if we really need to rework that chapter completely. 17.04.26 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@ppp-69-238-93-198.dsl.frs2ca.pacbell.net) 17.05.00 # linuxstb: and if USB charger is detected? What should happen then? 17.05.10 # fm2: Then Rockbox charges via USB... 17.05.33 # bluebrother: yeah, my thoughts too. There are other bits and pieces that are really wrong currently or outdated (the text viewer chapter for example) 17.05.48 # linuxstb: but will it enter USB mode? Or will I be able to listen to the music? I.e. as if nothing had happened? 17.06.31 # linuxstb: like with H120 17.06.31 # fm2: How can it enter usb mode if it's connected to a charger? 17.06.46 # pixelma: do you think it would be a good idea to include features.txt for building the manual? It could help with opt-ing somewhat more automatically 17.07.00 # otoh it could also lead to faster breakage of the manual. 17.08.00 # hard to say... I can't really imagine that at the moment 17.08.44 # linuxstb: I probably don't quite understand what "USB mode" means. Is it a state when RB has recognised that an USB jack has been inserted (which can be either a wall charger or a PC connection)? Or does it only mean a PC connection (and hence the possibility to transfer files)? 17.08.56 # maybe I should give it a try and see how complex integrating is ... otoh I have enough other stuff on my todo 17.11.03 Join freqmod [0] (n=freqmod@m072g.studby.ntnu.no) 17.12.38 # I'd say your rbutil work is more important :) 17.12.52 # linuxstb: if it's the latter then am I right in the assumption that we only need to detect a charger in order to properly show it in the status bar (animated battery)? 17.13.37 # fm2: "usb mode" is when your DAP is acting as an external hard disk connected to your computer. 17.13.48 Quit The-Compiler ("Connection reseted by god") 17.14.02 # The other is usb charging... and it's not only necessary for the charging animation 17.14.37 # It's also necessary to prevent poweroff while usb powered. Otherwise it would reboot every few minutes 17.15.32 # amiconn: you mean the setting "Auto shut down after xxx mins"? 17.15.41 # linuxstb: ok, now I understand 17.16.15 Join n17ikh|Lappy [0] (n=n17ikh@c-76-23-98-11.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) 17.16.48 Quit `sam` (".") 17.18.16 # Another question about the plans: once the usb stack is in place, what mode would sansa enter when connected to a PC (with power off)? OF or RB one? 17.19.07 # I would expect the RB one. 17.21.04 # On other targets (with a hardware USB bridge), the bootloader enters USB mode directly if it detects a usb connection at boot - it doesn't start either RB or the OF. 17.21.27 # So I would assume we would want to do something similar on PP targets eventually. 17.23.13 # linuxstb: yes, that'd be the "rescue mode", right? 17.24.11 # Yes. Although ipods already have a rescue mode that is accessible before the RB bootloader, so on ipods there is no need for a second rescue mode... 17.27.39 # linuxstb: but it would be possible. What about sansa? Doesn't it also have rescue ("manufacturing") mode? What would the RB rescue mode be good for? 17.28.27 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B744.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.32.02 Quit tchan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.32.55 # how's the data from the USB stack actually going to get written to/read from the ata? nothing in the current svn kernal seems compatible with that. 17.33.22 # jhMikeS: reading sectors with... one moment 17.33.28 Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) 17.34.06 # ata_read_sectors 17.34.23 # and ata_write_sectors 17.34.26 # from an interrupt handler? 17.34.49 # heh 17.34.54 # jhMikeS: nopw 17.34.56 # nope 17.35.04 # an own thread will handle it 17.35.13 # From the USB thread, I'd expect 17.35.29 # hmmm...yes, of course. but how? 17.35.50 # amiconn: nope.. at the moment i am doing this in an seperate therad 17.36.22 # is there any chance that setting the hold switch to on turns off the wheel on the iPod video? 17.36.26 # in the interrupt handler i put events in the queue of the "worker" thread and he does all the work 17.36.54 # amiconn: using existing usb thread is not the best idea.. a lot of generic code gets mixed with usb-stack specific one 17.37.27 # forget that, if it was a hardware problem with key eating i guess the OF would show it. 0_) 17.37.34 # hmmm...damn I need to commit this patch. it's got the stuff to make that more efficient. 17.38.38 Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 17.39.02 Part fm2 17.41.28 Join sitwon [0] (n=adam@pool-72-66-96-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net) 17.41.59 # what about using the whole audio buffer as a huge FIFO? lots of slop space that way. 17.43.24 # There is a typo on the page . To copy .rockbox to ~/sansa/mnt/ the correct command is "cp -R .rockbox/ mnt/" without the '-R' flag the cp command will ommit directories. 17.43.55 # it's a wiki 17.44.58 Quit Rob2222 (Connection timed out) 17.46.01 # heh 17.46.21 # sitwon: A better way would be "unzip rockbox.zip -d ~/sansa/mnt/" 17.48.12 # I recognize that you could just unzip it on the device, I also realize that it's a wiki. But I don't have write access on the wiki and I'm simply pointing out that the way they tell supposed novices to do it is wrong. 17.48.34 # fair enough. good catch :) 17.49.04 # linuxstb_: usb_enable(true) get call when USB_INSERTED and usb_enable(false) when != USB_INSERTED - or? 17.49.18 Join bluey- [0] (n=bluey@dslb-088-074-031-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) 17.49.30 # by the way, I have rockbox working on my brothers e270R now, thanx a LOT! 17.49.35 # austriancoder: See firmware/usb.c 17.50.11 Quit petur ("stkov") 17.52.34 Quit bluey- (Client Quit) 17.53.00 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") 17.53.40 Join jane- [0] (i=jane@ulko.kuori.org) 17.54.08 # so, who wants to port rockbox to x86? 8) 17.55.24 # DefineByte: me has it on the todo for some time... adding an sdl based target 17.55.57 # i'd love to build a jukebox with a Via EPIA and use rockbox on it. 17.57.25 # austriancoder: Have you heard about the "port" to the Motorolo E680 phone? (basically just the UI sim for the ipod video running on phone, which runs Linux). 17.57.44 # is moving rockbox to targets other than DAPs a goal for the future? 17.58.19 # linuxstb_: never heard of this "port"... 17.58.26 # I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a goal, but the idea of "rockbox as application" has been discussed many times before, and lots of people seem to want it. 17.59.04 # the audio players on linux are pretty feature light 17.59.12 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) 17.59.17 # austriancoder: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12403.0 (follow the link in the first post) 17.59.47 # that's pretty neat 18.00.14 # austriancoder: I asked about using the audiobuffer since that would leave lots of room for bursting data in and letting ata handle it largly at it's own pace if it doesn't always keep up. 18.00.37 # jhMikeS: Wouldn't it be dangerous to cache too much data though/ 18.00.43 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) 18.01.23 # I don't think so since it's on the running device itself, not cached on the pc end 18.01.39 # jhMikeS: at the moment I need a max buffer of 512byte for data transfers... used also for maxsize in endpoint descriptors 18.03.58 # * austriancoder makes a break# 18.03.59 # austriancoder: does ata keep up or do things have to slow down to accomodate it? 18.04.37 # jhMikeS: to eraly to tell... 18.05.53 Quit Jangari () 18.06.50 Join senab [0] (n=chatzill@82-35-229-48.cable.ubr01.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) 18.08.20 Join bluey- [0] (n=bluey@dslb-088-074-031-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) 18.10.54 Nick jane- is now known as in-jane (i=jane@ulko.kuori.org) 18.11.31 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barry@wardell.ucd.ie) 18.12.44 Quit jhulst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18.14.34 Join n1s [0] (n=nils@nl104-208-25.student.uu.se) 18.17.52 Quit senab ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 18.19.54 Join webguest13 [0] (i=50d81efc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a70df832776d7db7) 18.20.19 # austriancoder: how far away is the serial and msd drivers? 18.21.40 # * n1s guesses on > < this far... 18.22.24 # barrywardell: Are you here? 18.22.31 # yes 18.22.49 # back from holidays 18.23.01 Part sslashes 18.23.24 # barrywardell: Welcome back. Have you tried connecting a PP target to your Mac with the "charge button" held down? i.e. to avoid entering USB mode? 18.23.41 # If I do that on my ipod, the Mac's USB stack dies (for that USB port). 18.24.14 # my Mac's USB stack dies a lot when I connect a PP target to it 18.24.18 # This happened both before and after the USB detection change I've just committed. 18.24.36 # it also dies other times too 18.25.08 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) 18.25.17 # Any idea how to fix it? 18.26.01 # it doesn't die when there's a functional usb driver 18.26.16 # ie. when I was using the e200tool code in Rockbox it didn't die 18.26.42 # I also noticed that when connecting to Linux, I sometimes (but not always) get a "new USB device" message before the ipod reboots to disk mode, and then I get a second "new USB device" when it connects in disk mode. 18.27.31 # So is the problem that "dr_controller_stop" doesn't close the USB connection thoroughly? 18.27.32 # the 1.2.15 OF for the sansa also cuses the Mac usb stack trouble, so I don't know if it's a problem we can fix too easily 18.28.18 # I don't think it's a dr_controller_stop problem 18.29.05 # I mean should we be doing more between calling run and stop - to tell the host that we're aborting the connection? 18.29.50 # I'm not sure. 18.30.40 # Do you have an ipod, or just H10 and Sansa? 18.30.43 # have you had a look at the linux driver to see what it does? 18.30.55 # No 18.31.00 # I have an ipod with a broken disk, so it's not much use 18.32.30 # I'll have a look at the linux code now and see if we're missing anything 18.35.11 Quit DefineByte () 18.35.27 # quick question... all the USB commits, are those so rockbox can handle PC/device USB connections, or for USB on the go? 18.36.41 Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) 18.39.22 # PC/device 18.40.04 # linuxstb_: looking at the driver, there is some extra stuff. it dumps the ep queues 18.40.32 # but that requires working with the host, so it wouldn't be easy to add 18.40.36 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 18.42.10 # linuxstb_: stalling ep0 would be a good idea 18.42.49 # * linuxstb_ should point out that he knows nothing about usb programming 18.43.22 # me tries something 18.46.07 # linuxstb_: you could try this: http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11081 - as i dont have access to a mac today, i cant test it 18.47.42 # Thanks, I'll try it later this evening - I don't have access to my Mac now either. 18.48.23 # do we have functions for utf-16 ? 18.49.02 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) 18.49.04 Join spreslijs [0] (i=spreslij@62.85.93.156) 18.49.16 Part spreslijs 18.49.30 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@86.66.198.24) 18.51.26 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.52.42 Join Kingstone [0] (i=A@87.69.67.222) 18.52.46 # does anyone know where can i find info about today's apple conference? 18.54.10 # engadget 18.54.10 # that is offtopic... 18.57.23 # scorche: not if the new ipods are running rockbox? 18.58.21 # elinenbe: Are they? 18.58.48 # no, they're running OSX 18.58.52 # hrhr 18.58.55 # which is a rumor... 18.59.08 # an untrue one i think 18.59.29 Join Naked [0] (i=naked@62.142.249.112) 18.59.37 Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (i=naked@62.142.249.112) 19.00.13 Part DefineByte 19.04.25 Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) 19.07.10 # austriancoder: seen that we have to uplad code to google ? 19.13.39 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 19.14.41 # final stages should be ready for uploading now 19.15.28 Quit freqmod (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.16.37 Join fm2 [0] (i=d9b96770@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f5d39398bf53bd70) 19.17.00 # preglow: we have to upload code from the 20th of august 19.17.35 # i know 19.19.06 # preglow: what do you call "final stages" then ? 19.19.27 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 19.20.56 # May I ask an OT question? Ist it possible to disable "Database Refresh" in Sansa OF? It's nasty. I know this is the wrong channel, but it's quiet here, so I thought... 19.21.35 # i've wondered that as well 19.21.55 # I thought the Rockbox bootlaoder could do that, at least for some OF revisions? 19.22.35 # tumu: well, one way would be to ask the devs to quickly make USB mode working in RB :-))) 19.23.39 # Nico_P: i meant the final stages of preparing for uploads, from googles side 19.23.46 # Nico_P: they didn't have it ready before today 19.23.53 # ah right 19.25.33 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host244-215-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 19.25.43 Join pepie34 [0] (n=pepie34@cop60-1-82-240-26-92.fbx.proxad.net) 19.26.07 Part fm2 19.29.01 Join elinenbe_ [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 19.29.30 Quit sitwon ("Leaving") 19.30.16 # Slightly off-topic, but Apple's big news is a replacement for the ipod video - an 80GB model smaller than the current 30GB, and a 160GB smaller than the current 80GB.... 19.30.27 # So Rockbox is no-longer running on any of Apple's current ipods... 19.30.51 Join Hellmark [0] (n=hellmark@63.77.33.33) 19.34.39 # wow an (GB as entry level hd player is massive... I still haven't filled my h320... I guess the time for portable flac is here :-) 19.34.53 # Well, portable ALAC... 19.34.55 # s/(/80 19.35.18 # what, you're not going to port rockbox to it!111!!!! ONE 19.35.22 # :-D 19.35.45 # It's inevitably going to be protected in the same way as the 2nd gen Nano. 19.36.53 # Well one could get one of those 160 GB monsters and rip out the drive and put it in something useful, (and hope it would work) .-) 19.37.22 # The 160GB was announced as $349 19.37.37 # 80GB is $249 19.37.51 # * rasher watches that mean €500 19.37.52 # * nicktastic is ready to buy a 160GB as soon as Rockbox is ported 19.37.57 # the ipod touch has wifi =) 19.38.02 # touch I am thinking $400 19.38.19 # * linuxstb_ points people to #rockbox-community 19.38.37 # Well, I think it won't take that long to get my H180 filled. Flac takes quite some space 19.38.56 # If I want the same lossless stuff on my recorder, I'd need a 120GB disk at least 19.39.13 # (WAV, as flac isn't possible with that CPU) 19.39.34 # My collection of studio CDs comes in at about 130GB in flac... 19.39.43 # how is FLAC on a 4G iPod or Mini? 19.40.03 # FLAC works well on all ipods - it easy on the CPU. 19.40.06 # ^it's 19.40.06 # It works... and you can still carry several albums 19.40.14 # Not on the default firmware though 19.41.23 # the default doesnt support it at all though 19.41.33 # Yeah 19.41.38 # talking Rockbox 19.41.39 # That's totally unimportant 19.41.40 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19.41.41 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) 19.41.49 # I thought we were talking about the new ipods? 19.41.58 # In relation to rockbox and how they're likely to be protected 19.42.36 # I referred to Hellmark's question regarding flac on 4G / mini 19.42.43 # Ah ok 19.42.57 # BTW, how exactly are second gen nanos protected? 19.43.01 # And when I talked about "all ipods", I was referring to the ones Rockbox runs on... 19.43.30 # I'm looking at the last of the monochrome iPods, because they're cheaper. Only thing is, do I want more battery life, or more storage space. 19.43.39 # Hellmark: I see. 19.43.46 # Hmm, I don't remember whether I tested this, but I expect flac to run without boosting even on PP5002 19.43.49 # I quite like FLAC. 19.44.03 # I've got a Cowon D2 and put some FLAC stuff on there. Not a lot mind, I don't _have_ a lot of FLAC stuff. 19.44.04 # amiconn: I expect so too - it's all in IRAM... 19.44.31 # Thundercloud, same here. 19.44.49 # Hellmark: What, you have a D2 or you like Flac? :D 19.44.54 # I've only got a handful of albums in FLAC 19.45.01 # but wanting to start migrating 19.45.32 # Still, hang on, the new ipods. Is it JUST the capacity increase and size decrease? 19.45.50 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 19.46.00 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 19.46.02 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 19.46.07 # on iPod Classic, more battery, more storage 19.46.08 # linuxstb: Ah, then it definitely should. It's the same arm cores, and IRAM is equal in speed to PP502x 19.46.11 # (we're not running dualcore on PP5002 yet though) 19.46.20 # then there is the new iPod Touch, and the third gen Nano 19.46.22 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) 19.46.35 # Hellmark: :o I see. Links? 19.46.35 # Thundercloud: No. They first announced a new generation Nano, with a new UI, more similar to the iPhone, and video capabilities. Then they announced the new "ipod classic" which they said had the same UI as the new Nano. 19.46.49 # Thundercloud, http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/steve-jobs-live-apples-the-beat-goes-on-special-event/ 19.47.32 # So reading between the lines, I would say they've finished writing a new OS for the Samsung CPU, and both the new ipods are using that. i.e. it's the end of the line for Portalplayer. 19.52.05 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 19.52.32 # Fun 19.52.43 # Thing is though, it doesn't give capacities or prices for the touch 19.52.51 # it does 19.52.55 # 8/16 gigs 19.53.03 # 300 and 400 bucks 19.53.19 # geez.. no hdd 19.53.24 # Where's that? 19.53.27 # I didn't see that 19.53.32 # live.gizmodo.com 19.54.10 # Crazy 19.54.18 # That's a pretty good price as far as flash players go 19.54.28 # what? 19.54.41 Join spiorf_ [0] (n=spiorf@host105-174-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 19.54.50 # for flash but for the same price they could offer a 80gig hdd 19.54.59 # krazykit: Well, $300 is £150 19.55.03 # guys, the sme conversation is going on in the correct, off-topic channel #rockbox-community 19.55.09 # *same 19.55.10 # I got my 4GB Cowon iAudio D2 for £150 19.55.20 # Meh, i'm finished 19.56.18 Join vic^2 [0] (n=vmark@fctnnbsc16w-142166033020.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) 19.56.32 Quit Llorean (Client Quit) 19.56.53 # Are the daily builds of the bootloaders saved and available anywhere? 19.57.15 # bootloaders are released, not built daily 19.57.19 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 19.57.21 Quit ender` (" AAAAAaA: American Association Against Acronym Abuse and Ambiguity.") 19.57.37 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 19.57.50 # so there is no way to get the bootloader for the sansa that has the reduced USB delay short of building it myself? 19.58.11 # * amiconn wonders what HDDs the new "classic" ipod line uses 19.58.32 # * linuxstb_ too 19.58.34 # The devices itself are, hmm, not very interesting to be honest 19.58.45 # I agree - but the disks are... 19.59.34 # Apple again forgot the radio (or to be more up to date, fm + dab radio) 19.59.47 # Although they seem to have quite an impressive battery life - 40 hours for audio, 7 for video. 19.59.53 # Is there somewhere with images of the new iPods? 20.00.05 # This is a good link - http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/steve-jobs-live-apples-the-beat-goes-on-special-event/ 20.00.07 # * Llorean just finished wrangling his computer out of an xgl nightmare. 20.00.09 # amiconn, eh, do most people really want a radio? 20.00.20 # Hellmark: Quite a lot of us do, yes. 20.00.48 # I mean, myself, and most people I know, use MP3 players TO GET AWAY from the radio, since the radio sucks cock anymore. 20.01.12 # yeah, but the radio is nice if you want to listen to, say, NPR or something 20.01.18 # or the BBC across the pond 20.01.26 Quit petur ("switching") 20.01.35 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 20.01.43 Quit DataGhost (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.01.58 Join DataGhost [0] (i=dataghos@ip3e832ea5.speed.planet.nl) 20.02.05 # well, it must not be that pressing of a concern though. I mean 110 million sold, and not enough of a clamor to add it 20.02.26 # Hellmark: Quality of radio heavily depends on your location.... 20.02.42 # Majority of the US, its horrid. 20.02.49 # well, north america. 20.03.02 # country music stations :-( 20.03.13 # (since many of the stations in canada and mexico are owned by the same company) 20.03.22 Join GodEater [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 20.03.26 # krazykit, no 20.03.41 # * amiconn would like a player the size (and capacity) of the new ipods, but with a greyscale lcd, real buttons, recording, and fm/dab/drm radio 20.03.45 # http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070905-live-ars-technica-coverage-of-todays-apple-event.html 20.03.48 # what you say folks 20.04.06 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20.04.07 Join sambolina3 [0] (i=a9f44693@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-dde852d3cd829bad) 20.04.11 # so who wants a pool on how long it'll take for requests for rockbox to be ported to the new nano, the classic, and the touch to be put in New Ports? 20.04.12 # I wonder if the new nano would be hackable for rockbox 20.04.26 # a long long time 20.04.26 # krazykit: Can I have "soon"? :P 20.04.27 # few seconds ? 20.04.29 # there are a handful of companies that own almost all the radio stations in North America, and they've stripped away the DJs choice of music, and just have them play precanned music, of which really is in short supply, since the same songs get repeated over and over again 20.04.42 # gregj: It's unlikely to be less secure than the current Nano... 20.04.46 # I mean, there are times, where you will hear the same song about once every hour 20.05.10 # agreed ^^^ 20.05.19 # linuxstb_: is the current nano makes it just hard to change firmware, because of encryption, etc ? 20.05.25 # Oh, and I forgot spdif in+out 20.05.25 # yes 20.05.30 # oh 20.05.33 # I didn't kne 20.05.34 # w 20.05.39 # thought it is just completly different arch 20.05.46 # gregj: Yes, that as well... 20.05.55 # shit 20.06.05 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul) 20.06.08 # ipod is completly useless without rockbox.. 20.06.42 # why would they wanna do this ? 20.06.51 # there is no problem with the big ipod 20.06.57 # so why do it for nano 20.06.58 # wtf 20.07.09 # so they can stop people from playing videos on their nanos 20.07.24 # well, I am betting much of the iphone hacking will start bleeding over to the ipods 20.08.56 Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@83.233.243.132) 20.11.50 Quit sambolina3 ("CGI:IRC") 20.11.57 Join sambolina3 [0] (i=a9f44693@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-31fa81c2d1b745d6) 20.12.21 Quit sambolina3 (Client Quit) 20.13.07 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 20.13.41 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a9c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-61a6a5312363a477) 20.18.18 Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection) 20.19.12 Quit atsea-68 (Remote closed the connection) 20.20.20 Part Xero ("Ex-Chat") 20.20.59 Join senab [0] (n=chatzill@82-35-229-48.cable.ubr01.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) 20.22.48 # hey, i'm currently selling my ipod and looking at getting a sansa e280. i've got a few questions though: 1. is the screen still flickering? 2. can i record radio? 3. what can i expect in battery life? 20.23.38 # senab: no, probably, and 12-13 hours (?) 20.23.40 # I've got a e240. the screen does not flicker 20.24.00 Join O112358 [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) 20.24.12 Join GodEater [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 20.24.28 # I've been unable to get recording working at all, I've only looked at it briefly tho. and my sansa only lasts about 5 hours 20.25.01 # thanks, sounds good then. i'm debating whether to pay the extra £20 for the radio version hmmmm 20.25.06 # saratoga: i think uploading is ready now 20.25.13 # rudman: whats the radio reception like? 20.25.28 # how could i get back to the default rockbox theme after changing my theme to something else? when i try and load up Rockbox_Default it doesn't look the same as when i first installed rockbox.. 20.25.30 # haven't tried the radio at all. 20.26.19 # and resetting my settings seems a bit extreme 20.26.33 # RudMan: have you figured out why it only lasts 5 hours? that sounds weird 20.26.39 # rudman: okay thanks 20.26.48 # maybe you made some font changes after the installed it the first time and that's why it looks different 20.27.13 # in-jane: I've got a refurb unit so I'm suspecting it's a questionable battery 20.27.20 # just found the e280 for £73 delivered. Bargain! 20.27.48 # RudMan: i'm sure even the background colour is different, it doesn't start off white does it? 20.28.17 Part bluey- ("Leaving") 20.28.18 # most themes don't reset their backdrop if they don't include them 20.28.19 # RudMan: there must be some way to just reset theme settings without resetting everything.. 20.28.30 # RudMan: OK. i just got little worried since i ordered my e240 today ;) 20.29.05 # O112358: You could open up .rockbox/config.cfg in a text editor and delete any lines relating to the theme. 20.29.10 # senab: where? 20.29.11 # RudMan: that's what i assumed as well.. seeing as the default theme doesn't included that information it doesn't change it 20.29.26 # http://www.bluebat.com/webstore/general/forms/ExtendedInformation.aspx?ExtendedCode=S3913139&ExtendedProdCode=M220492&CatCode=SELF0804&referrer=Kelkoo 20.29.32 # BigBambi ^ 20.29.39 # cheers 20.29.49 Quit Buschel () 20.29.52 # linuxstb_: nice one, seems quite fiddly for something so basic though 20.29.57 Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") 20.30.21 # O112358: I agree. If there isn't already, we should add a "rockbox_default.cfg" in the themes directory. 20.31.09 Join BigMac [0] (n=mike@c-71-234-95-131.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) 20.31.33 # linuxstb_: good idea, also, can you remember if the image that comes up when you connect to the computer is 'graphical' looking with no settings changed? 20.31.40 # and it should include a null backdrop line like this backdrop: 20.32.08 # O112358: The USB picture is hard-coded - you can't change it. 20.32.14 # if your previous theme set a black bmp as a backdrop and the new theme does not set a backdrop but sets a black font, you're hosed 20.33.17 Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-069-134-102-044.nc.res.rr.com) 20.33.35 # RudMan: Yes, that's a well-known issue. Hopefully the new themes site can add a validation to check for a backdrop: line in the .cfg 20.34.05 # linuxstb_: It was our intent to require a backdrop line, as if I recall even a blank one at least resets it. 20.35.29 Quit vic^2 (Remote closed the connection) 20.36.05 # i could change the .cfg through rockbox couldn't I? 20.36.45 # O112358: You mean with the text editor? 20.37.16 # hehe yeah i'm doing that right now 20.37.55 # do the iconset parameters relate to the theme? 20.38.50 # yes, it reflects what icons you see 20.39.36 # and it's fine to just delete all these lines? it will just make it resort to its default right? 20.40.31 # yep 20.41.46 # and then reset my player? 20.42.13 # there we go, back to normal 20.42.27 # Now you can do "save theme .cfg" and keep that safe. 20.42.38 # yay 20.43.08 # but wont it fail to override the background settings etc? 20.44.03 # oh right i'll be restoring the .cfg file not loading a .wps.. 20.44.39 Part _jz 20.45.26 Quit GodEater (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20.46.56 Quit datachild (Nick collision from services.) 20.46.58 Join datasleep [0] (n=datachil@217-208-144-87-no75.tbcn.telia.com) 20.47.20 # argh, my computer isn't detecting my player when i plug it in now, but be because i was unplugging it without safely removing hardware 20.48.00 # when ever i try to remove the device it just says that it can't be removed 20.49.06 # jhMikeS: The garbled lines fix for Sansa requires a new bootloader, no? 20.49.08 Quit webguest13 ("CGI:IRC") 20.51.05 Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@204.19.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) 20.51.30 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.53.10 Quit O112358 () 20.55.02 Quit senab ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 21.00.58 Join flo [0] (n=flo@dslb-084-056-153-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) 21.01.55 Nick datasleep is now known as datachild (n=datachil@217-208-144-87-no75.tbcn.telia.com) 21.03.59 # hi. i have a problem with the database on a sansa e260. i removed a file from the player but the database still contains an entry for the directory and the file inside. even when using "initialize now" or "update now". 21.04.31 Quit flo (Client Quit) 21.04.38 # have you checked the recycle bin? 21.04.58 # hmm. Impatient or connection problems? 21.05.56 # w00t, we're gonna get to write a wifi stack! 21.06.08 # Hahaha 21.06.44 # hmm, only 16gb though :( 21.07.49 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.59.232) 21.07.50 # It seems more like a target for Rockbox-as-an-app assuming it's hackable in similar ways to the iPhone 21.08.17 # indeed 21.08.40 # How is the iPhone hackable? You mean you can run third-party apps on top of the existing OS? 21.08.51 # linuxstb_: So I've been lead to believe, at least. 21.09.00 # all I know is that it's been jtag'd 21.09.18 Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-05c3b94a64ba0b83) 21.09.44 # * linuxstb_ is starting to doubt the future of Rockbox - no-one is making DAPs any more... 21.09.50 # guys what exactly is supposed to happenw hen i connect the usb to my h10 when its off 21.10.13 # linuxstb_: meaning they're all making "do everything gadgets" instead? 21.10.20 # linuxstb: well there will be a definately "ray of light" 21.10.37 # "do everything but nothing properly" :/ 21.10.40 # lostlogic: Yep. Plus the focus on video features. 21.10.49 # the new iPod classic at 80 and 160 gig looks promising actually. I wonder what it's got under the hood. 21.11.17 # IMO it's almost certain the same as the 3rd Gen Nano, which is almost certainly the same as the 2nd Gen Nano... 21.11.36 # linuxstb_: I don't see any reason Rockbox couldn't move into media-playing too eventually 21.11.46 # But I guess we'll see dissections on the usual websites soon 21.12.14 # nano 2g is samsung SOC right? 21.12.21 # yep 21.12.29 # linuxstb:any chance of rockbox entering phones? 21.12.30 # lostlogic: Yes, plus the as-yet-uncracked encryption. 21.12.56 # yeah, I bet there'll be more interest in it now ;) 21.13.28 # AceNik: Don't ask me - Rockbox will go whereever people take it... 21.13.29 Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) 21.13.33 # AceNik: Haven't you asked this before, several times? 21.13.38 Join O112358 [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) 21.14.02 # Llorean: sorry , can you tell me about the usb ? 21.14.12 # god i'm stupid, my computer wasn't detecting my iriver because i was plugging my usb cable into the host socket, didn't know it even fitted in there 21.14.14 # AceNik: Tried the latest build already? Shouldn't crash anymore on db init... 21.14.19 # does rockbox have usb charging? 21.14.55 # and i just realised that the usb charging image looks differen't to me because i was running a really old build 21.14.58 # O112358: The USB host port uses a mini-AB socket that both accomodates mini-A and mini-B plugs 21.15.13 # amiconn: yes thanks, it doesn't, although it does crash after a couple of minutes of playing music, it hangs, does playing at higher volumes make a difference 21.15.26 # amiconn: unfortunate for people like me who don't look 21.15.28 # lostlogic: Any plans to return to Rockbox hacking? 21.15.28 # O112358: yes rockbox can usb charge 21.15.56 # This is meant for OTG devices, which can negotiate which device acts as host and which acts as device 21.15.56 # but for it to be fast enough to be useful you need to enable a setting somewhere 21.16.00 # how do you get it to start charging? 21.16.21 # i have it plugged in but the charging logo isn't animating 21.16.34 # Afaik, the very same socket provides H300 MTP mode on US devices (at USB1.1 speed) 21.16.45 # O112358: are you in USB mode? 21.16.51 # amiconn: that means automatic detection isnt possible on h10 yet, right, cause my h10 does nothin on usb being connected 21.17.04 # ? 21.17.06 # AceNik: well i have a giant usb plug on my screen 21.17.29 # O112358: then unplug it and hold down the rec button when you plug it in again 21.17.51 # ok so it's not automatic? 21.18.11 Join ficsch [0] (n=ficsch@dslb-084-056-153-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) 21.18.22 # I'm not sure whether the H300 charges from USB in rockbox 21.18.36 # n1s: argh, it went into recording mode 21.18.43 Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.18.55 # hehe 21.18.59 # amiconn: I'm *almost* certain it does. 21.19.04 # The hardware allows it, but powermanagement in rockbox isn't quit what it should be 21.19.09 # amiconn: I think it does, a setting was added for it at least 21.19.18 # * linuxstb_ was about to say what n1s said 21.19.28 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@bas3-montreal28-1242530132.dsl.bell.ca) 21.19.48 # h3x0 does charge from usb 21.19.48 # but as with most of rockbox's features I have never tried it 21.20.14 # maybe it's charging but i just can't see it 21.20.21 # hi. my database does not change after moving a file to another directory an removing the source dir. I already did "initialize now" and "update now". I have a sansa e260 21.20.27 # it is a setting 21.20.30 # O112358: did you enable the option? 21.20.39 # a little plug icon appears next to the battery meter, i have a feeling it stops the meter from doing the charging animation 21.20.57 # O112358: general settings -> system -> battery 21.20.57 # oh an option? 21.21.08 # why would anyone not want the player to charge from the usb? 21.21.12 # O112358: I told you to do that already 21.21.30 # O112358: because not all usb ports support it 21.21.34 # n1s: sorry i thought you were talking to someone else 21.21.36 # amiconn: new bug-->player hangs after 1min or so of playing music 21.22.01 # fisch: did you reboot? 21.22.05 # yes 21.22.18 # and if you try to draw more current than the port supplies it (should) kill the connection 21.22.57 # oh, that's a good reason to have a setting then 21.23.11 # RudMan: is it possible to delete the database from the file system to force a rebuild? Or shall i try debugging rockbox? Maybe it's a bug? 21.23.18 # pressing the rec button while inserting the USB cable will make the H300 charge... though it's a bit ugly that while doing so you get to the Recording screen as well 21.23.35 # hmm, i did a battery bench test yesterday on the first cycle of my brand new battery and it came out with some very odd values 21.23.46 # we should probably change this (use the Play button instead or something) 21.24.12 # Genre9mp3: Is long-press on play currently unused? 21.24.27 # Genre9mp3: also the rec screen comes up if you hold rec to reset settings on boot :-) 21.24.58 # Who's idea was it to map the "rec" button to the recording screen? ;) 21.25.11 # linuxstb: No... at least not while on file browser 21.25.13 # it started off detecting a voltage of about 60 mV which went down to 2 mV over the period of an hour, then it jumped up to over 4000 mV (what one would expect) and then acted normally 21.25.38 # file browser/menu that is... 21.25.41 # linuxstb_: yes, it is likely. I've been busy moving 2000 miles, buying a home and starting a new job for the past couple of months, but should finally have internet access at home tomorrow which might just might put rockbox back on my "way to spend time" radar. 21.25.44 # Genre9mp3: What about the WPS? 21.26.19 # lostlogic: Good to hear - playback.c has been asking after you... 21.26.36 # linuxstb: It's not mapped as well 21.26.38 # is that an issue with the battery bench plugin? seeing as it's impossible for my battery to be at such a low voltage and for the player still to run 21.26.48 # fisch: I had some issues with the database recently. it wasn't seeing the tags correctly. 21.26.59 # fisch: maybe there is something flaky with it 21.27.04 # Genre9mp3: Then a feature request would seem in order (I don't own an H300).... 21.27.47 # has anyone else seen strange results like that while running battery bench tests? 21.28.10 Quit linuxstb_ ("Client Exiting") 21.28.13 # * Genre9mp3 can't remember the shortcut to Pitch screen (from WPS) 21.28.21 # RudMan: you mean the database does not build correctly due to bad tags of mp3s? 21.28.24 # linuxstb: will do 21.30.17 # is there a posiblity that battery_bench was detecting the voltage wrongly? 21.30.23 # fisch: that's what it appeared to me. 21.30.45 # ficsch: I don't think there's a bug in the db rebuild (other than the crash bug I fixed this morning). If you deleted a folder but the files still appear in the database, it's most probably because you didn't delete for real, but the files are now in a recycle bin 21.30.51 # I rebuilt the tags on the files and the database appeared to work correctly again 21.30.57 # (where they will still be found by the database) 21.30.59 # ah... it's Play+ up(or down).... you just have to be a bit... quick 21.31.30 Join googlegoogle [0] (n=chatzill@CPE-121-222-227-94.qld.bigpond.net.au) 21.31.37 # hey guys 21.31.38 Quit AceNik ("bye guys have fun , enjoy !!!!!") 21.31.45 # RudMan: i'll try that 21.32.05 # amiconn: i delete it using rm -f on linux 21.32.08 # strange cause Play+AB (ID3 info shortcut) doesn't have the same behavior 21.32.19 # hmm 21.32.25 # is there any chance of rockbox going to the cowon D2 21.32.30 # RudMan: do modify mp3s using windows or linux? 21.32.51 # I used a program called EZ Tag (I think) on windows 21.33.00 # ok 21.33.43 # but I didn't have the same problem as you, I had issues that the database wasn't even seeing my files or seeing most of them as untagged 21.33.57 # ok 21.34.23 # isn't it possible to delete the database from the file system to force a rebuild? do you know the file name? 21.35.03 # that I don't know 21.35.36 # ficsch: Sure, but I don't think the result will be different from normal "Initialise now" 21.35.42 # move all the files off the player, then run init now. shutdown, restart and see what is in the database 21.35.50 # /.rockbox/*.tcd 21.39.26 # yay i got my player to crash 21.40.00 # O112358: what did you do? 21.40.41 # n1s: I deleted a file while i was playing it, i then pressed Navi to browse files and it crashed 21.40.51 # not surprising really 21.41.33 # O112358: that is a known bug, that has been aroud for ages... unfortunately no one has fixed it yet 21.41.49 # were there other files in the dir? 21.42.01 # hmm, why have a delete option when you hold down Navi while a song is playing anyway? 21.42.17 # the file was in my root 21.42.25 # it was something i had just recorded 21.43.00 # O112358: yes but were there other music files in the root then ? 21.43.22 # erm, no 21.43.40 # why?# 21.43.56 # would it have been ok had there been other files for it to play? 21.44.04 # ok, thanks, I guess it is actually two seperate bugs, the one I was thinking about was apparently fixed 21.44.19 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") 21.44.21 # Yes I think so 21.44.52 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.45.29 # the file deleted fine, then i assume it just carried on playing since the file was already loaded into the buffer, but when i pressed navi the total song time went to 00:00 and it just froze on that screen 21.46.16 # n1s: oh, and have you heard of people getting strange voltage values on battery bench tests before? 21.46.34 # not that I can remember, no 21.47.21 # i can't see how it can be a problem with my battery, because had it actually been at 60 mV the player wouldn't have been running 21.48.56 # hmm, yep sounds pretty weird... if rockbox would read very low values it should shut down with a battery warning anyway... 21.48.59 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@CABLE-72-53-22-61.cia.com) 21.49.34 # hmm, confusing 21.50.02 # could it be a bug? 21.50.19 # well it must be a bug 21.50.26 # It's a bug in battery_bench 21.50.34 # dunno, I havent run battery bench for several months, does it read constantly 60mV ? 21.50.40 # ..introduced when switching to mV for battery voltages in rockbox 21.50.41 # amiconn: ahh so it's not just me? 21.50.55 # If voltage > 4.095V, it wraps to zero 21.51.30 # n1s: no it goes from 60mV to 0mV over an hour and then once it gets to 0mV it jumps up to the proper value 21.51.55 # O112358: then it sounds like exactly what amiconn said :-) 21.51.57 # This is due to some bits in batt_info.voltage being used for other purposes 21.52.01 # that seems to obey amiconn's theory :D 21.52.23 # * amiconn looks at XavierGr 21.52.39 # yay mystery solved, thanks amiconn, i'll be able to sleep tonight 21.52.43 # XavierGr: Is there a special reason for this bit reuse, instead of using some bool members in the struct? 21.53.29 # seems like my battery is just too much of a beast for rockbox to handle hehe 21.54.04 # No, it's a plain bug 21.54.17 # ...but in battery_bench only. The rest of rockbox is okay 21.54.37 # Voltage >4.095V is expected for fully charged LiIon 21.54.59 # is there any chance of rockbox going to the cowon D2 21.56.28 Quit rocko (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.57.54 # googlegoogle: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort 21.58.11 # thanks 21.58.31 # np 21.58.56 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.dsl.t-2.net) 21.59.09 # hmmm i moved all directories from "music" to my harddisk (mv /mnt/mp3/music/* /tmp). then i chose "initialize now" and rebooted. then after choosing "database" i was asked to initilize the database. i chose yes. now there's msg. box "building database ... 512 found (prev to return)". the msg box is there for minutes now. 21.59.23 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@c-71-205-0-132.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 22.00.06 # haha 22.00.11 # * amiconn pings Slasheri 22.00.40 # That's a known bug as well. The db won't finish initialising if there are no music files on the device 22.00.53 # kk ;) 22.02.00 # argh :D 22.02.08 # indeed, i haven't tried that yet.. 22.02.16 # Slasheri: Remember? I reported this months ago... 22.02.34 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 22.03.10 # amiconn: yep, but i haven't had much time to do anything atm :/ 22.03.19 # amiconn: will add that to the TODO :) 22.07.53 # damn, looks like I'm getting a new iPod Nano 22.08.26 # I mention I am looking at a new MP3 player, and they order me one. I was wanting a 4g or a mini to run rockbox on... 22.08.50 # so, if there is anything I can do to help with the 3G nano, let me know 22.11.48 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 22.12.14 Join Iamnotacrook [0] (n=chatzill@79-64-86-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) 22.12.43 Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection) 22.14.07 # man, that new nano is ugly 22.15.16 # yeah 22.15.51 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22.16.01 # now someone get cracking and figure out how to stuff rockbox on them :> 22.16.08 Join japc [0] (n=japc@bl7-244-92.dsl.telepac.pt) 22.16.55 # yellow 22.17.05 # i would like w access to the wiki 22.17.07 # hey im new to this so please dont flame me for anything (yet) i know that there is nothing for the nano 2nd gen yet but was wondering if there was any work being done on this and if there is any way i might help... an 22.17.17 # with whom should i talk ? 22.20.13 Quit Iamnotacrook ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") 22.23.17 Join creshal [0] (i=508cf183@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1a382730498c66de) 22.23.28 # 'lo guys. 22.23.36 # japc: there are a few here who could grant you access but only if you tell us your wiki name ;) 22.24.28 # ah, right 22.24.31 # JoseCelestino 22.25.37 # Got a nasty problem with... um, every build for the iPod nano since the new menu structure was introduced (half year ago or sth. like that)... these versions just show a "data abort at (random hex number)". In the forums were no useful answers (or better, no answers)... is there a way to fix this? 22.25.50 Quit ficsch ("[BX] Time wasted: 25 days 3 hours 1 minutes 57 seconds 96 milliseconds") 22.26.22 # japc: you should be able to edit the wiki now 22.27.01 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection) 22.27.28 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.27.38 # thank you pixelma 22.27.44 # dinner and hack 22.27.51 # bye 22.28.09 # creshal: how old is your bootloader (when did you last update it)? 22.28.11 # creshal: you probably have a too old bootloader 22.28.30 # ah, could be... should be a year old. 22.28.38 # then it is 22.28.39 # ^^ 22.28.48 # k, thanks. 22.30.12 Join Stalwart [0] (n=stalwart@ip-10.154.Home-Lan.fastnet.lv) 22.30.22 # is it joke or what? apple released 3g nano? 22.31.03 # Nope, no joke... 22.31.05 # they released it 22.31.12 # and two other new ipods 22.31.22 # holy crap 22.31.29 # my nano is SO obsolete 22.31.36 # (i have 1g) 22.31.59 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p54BD2AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 22.32.04 # is it just me, or are there no really serious attempts at cracking the nano2g? 22.32.29 # it's not just you ;) 22.32.40 # * Stalwart cries 22.33.02 # but that may change with the new ipods. 22.33.17 # well, all of them are probably based on the same arch now 22.33.27 # when did they released them? 22.33.36 # the 3rd gen nano and the 6th gen iPod (the classic one) are decrypted as well 22.33.41 # i dunno, though, i have a feeling apple has done their homework better now... 22.33.56 # What? No encryption? Yay... 22.34.03 # DerPapst: you mean encrypted? 22.34.06 # *encrypted 22.34.09 # :P 22.34.10 # yes... 22.34.10 # ah 22.34.12 # ghm 22.34.18 # * Stalwart slaps DerPapst with a rubber dildo. 22.34.21 # =[ 22.34.26 # heh... 22.34.28 # -.- 22.34.32 # (my random slapper) 22.34.43 # Some one needed the powerstrip, so they pulled the switch plug. 22.34.49 # (my bofh excuses) 22.36.10 # DerPapst: Has the encryption been confirmed for the 3G Nano and 6G, or are you just assuming? (I would agree with that assumption though). 22.36.48 # Narf... it seems to run, but I can't find my earphones anymore... oO 22.36.56 # linuxstb, encryption is not confirmed, just likely. 22.37.09 # linuxstb: more some kind of insider knowledge ;) 22.37.33 # rockbox will need multitouchscreen driver and new gui... oh boy... 22.37.33 # so it's not h´just a guess. 22.37.51 Quit Kingstone () 22.37.56 # or maybe it's easier to port linux to touch ipod 22.38.23 # or maybe just keep OSX and write apps 22.39.03 # Well, I'm off... good night ev'ryone. ^^ And thanks again. 22.39.08 # night 22.39.11 Part creshal 22.39.26 # DerPapst, you think it will be cracked to run native apps? 22.39.38 # dunno. 22.39.43 Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@66.172.231.192) 22.39.56 # but i think it's nearly the same hardware wise like the iphone 22.40.06 # s/wise// 22.40.32 # right now i have nokia e61 which is as much pda as i need, so i think about buying subnotebook, and unreleased yet ASUS EeePC 10" seems to fit me 200% 22.40.49 # what cpu does the iphone have again? samsung arm core? 22.41.01 # I think so 22.41.31 # An analysis of the iPhone's firmware has revealed that the main Samsung chip (designated S5L8900) contains an ARM1176jzf processor, together with a PowerVR MBX 3D graphics co-processor.[67] 22.41.36 # (c) wikipedia 22.42.16 # plenty of power to be able to run osx ;-) 22.43.59 # it'd be even more cool with linux 22.44.54 # multitouch x11 is already at beta stage and multitouch apps should arrive soon (which multitouchscreens becoming reality) 22.45.11 # oh, and multitouch rockbox would rock too! 22.46.21 # Rockbox doesn't really have much use for multitouch at the moment. 22.46.29 # Stalwart: Rockbox is a DAP firmware - I don't see its future as being a multi-purpose OS 22.47.01 # Were it ever ported to a touchscreen device, I'd just designate the edges of the screen the directional controls, and quadrants away from the edges four buttons or so. 22.47.21 # Or something similar after testing usability 22.47.24 # rockbox doesn't really have much use for a phone at the moment :) 22.47.40 # ipod touch != iphone 22.48.03 # ipod touch == iphone - phone ;-) 22.48.11 # But on anything needing/expecting a full OS, Linux is better suited, and a tailored Rockbox sim (or app) like in theory exists for that one phone (did we ever hear back 'bout that)? 22.48.11 # Bagder: Faster than me... 22.48.21 # Bagder: Isn't that just "i" ? 22.48.37 # yeah, "ipod touch == i" ;-) 22.48.41 # i, robot 22.48.45 # :D 22.48.59 # Bagder: No, I am "ipod touch"... 22.49.24 # hahaha 22.49.48 # talking about ports, has there been any about porting to generic dvd player chipsets? 22.50.11 # generic? 22.50.22 # sort of 22.50.33 # they usually come with 8bit micro plus an arm 22.50.50 # "usually"? really 22.51.03 # and lot of integrated processing circuitry for audio and video 22.51.09 # I know AMD/ATI and Nec are big on that area, they also do lots of MIPS cores 22.51.16 # as far as i've seen 22.51.28 # I poked on a Nec one for a DVB-T box 22.51.33 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.51.38 # they have a whole family of such beasts 22.51.50 # the manuf dvd player firmwares really can suck 22.52.01 Join darkraven [0] (n=darkrave@tmo-081-232.customers.d1-online.com) 22.52.08 Quit darkraven (Client Quit) 22.52.27 Join freqmod [0] (n=freqmod@m072g.studby.ntnu.no) 22.53.09 # rockbox as dvd player firmware replacement? i guess that's an entire different project :P 22.53.26 # maybe, maybe not 22.53.31 # they have framebuffers etc 22.53.46 # can output raw audio if necessary 22.55.34 # still you have to rewrite huge parts of rockbox (meaning more than 70% of the code) 22.56.04 # tumu: feel free to work on it, let us know how it turns out! ;-) 22.56.15 # gee, thanks :) 22.57.21 # http://www.necel.com/digital_av/en/index.html 22.57.22 # have to get my dvd player back from loan and start bricking it :p 22.57.43 # that's the EMMA series from NEC, seems to be fairly well used 22.57.52 # no public docs, MIPS multi-cores 22.58.00 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22.58.06 Quit desowin ("use linux") 22.59.50 Quit RudMan (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so good") 23.01.06 # no public docs are a reason but no barrier :P 23.01.10 # * DerPapst hides 23.01.18 # haha, indeed 23.01.25 Quit mtoups (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.01.31 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death") 23.07.08 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 23.09.07 # what does mi4 actually stand for? 23.09.46 # delYsid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI4 :-) 23.10.03 # but seriously, there's no known explanation that I know of 23.10.58 # That link is probably as good as any... 23.12.57 # Sorry for the OT but I am jus shocked about how many of the comments I've read about those new ipods are about how they look must be more than half of all comments are either "fugly!" or "the best lookingngngngn thing evar!1" 23.15.00 # who gives a ff about the new ipods? great is the 2 year old hp140 i bought from ebay 23.15.04 # way better 23.15.50 # personally I think my h300 is sort of ugly but I like it anyway, it's not like I sit looking at it all day 23.16.21 Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.16.24 # yeah. kind of ugly and bulky 23.16.40 # i just try not to make eye contact with him 23.16.51 # other than that is perfection 23.16.55 # yep, if I ever manage to kill it I will get a smalle rplayer 23.16.59 # I just replaced the battery in my H120. Don't mind the way it looks at all, and plan to keep it running for as long as it can. 23.17.22 # n1s: At least the "classic" isn't white any more... 23.17.40 # you replaced with a stock one or with a bigger ma Llorean ? 23.17.55 # linuxstb_: black is the new white :) 23.18.14 Join webguest34 [0] (i=97c98a9f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a57b4473caf9d0cd) 23.18.29 # I just want to get my hands on one of those 160GB drives... $349 is a lot to pay for a disk though. 23.18.53 # japc: Just a little bigger, 1700 23.19.08 # linuxstb_: true but for all I care my player could be neon-green with purple dots and pink fluff on it as long as it worked ok and sounded good :-> 23.19.14 # just a random thought - does Rockbox adjust the time for DST (for players with RTC)? 23.19.19 # The 1300 was enough for my use, I just needed a new one since it was ancient, and I'm hoping to avoid the misc ballooning problems. 23.19.25 # n1s: Good luck finding a manufacturer that agrees with that... 23.19.45 # chrisjs169: No 23.20.03 # chrisjs169: I think the idea is discussed for about 5 minutes twice a year... 23.20.03 # linuxstb_, I didn't think so 23.20.09 # I might try some custom painting as a theft prevention thing :-D 23.21.27 # * n1s goes to bed, goodnight everyone 23.21.30 Part n1s 23.22.35 # huh? "return !!QUEUE_LEVEL;" 23.22.50 # Am I missing something or is this a typo? 23.23.44 # oh, IC... 23.25.12 Quit BigBambi ("Leaving") 23.26.26 # * bluebrother wonders if he should add a "report problems here" to the rbutil thread 23.26.41 # Add it to rbutil itself... 23.26.50 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@86.66.198.24) 23.27.03 # in what way? As a "problems?" menu entry in the help menu? 23.27.20 # "Feedback" ? 23.27.29 # But no, it's probably a bad idea... 23.28.12 # Did you see the Sansa bug report in the forums - apparently rbutilqt didn't detect the device, but sansapatcher in the same usb session did? 23.29.49 # I found a couple of thread which unspecifically mentioned problems with rbutil 23.31.07 # I just read this one - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12434.0 23.31.50 # hmm -- strange. 23.33.00 # too bad I don't own a sansa for testing myself. 23.33.13 # Has anyone successfully installed the sansa bootloader with rbutilqt? 23.33.24 # I don't know. 23.33.32 Quit ompaul ("night all") 23.33.49 Quit Guile`` ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'") 23.34.03 Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) 23.34.06 # someone with a sansa around willing to test? ;-) 23.34.20 # Maybe some kind of table on the wiki page could be useful - so people can test bootloader and rockbox installs and tick the box if it worked... 23.34.22 # I can try it out tomorrow 23.34.27 # well, if autodetection works it should be fine at least. 23.36.12 # am i the only one annoyed by the white/gray frame around the rockbox.org tables? :> 23.36.15 # bluebrother: Any luck with libusb? From the sound of things, jdgordon will soon have a bootloader patcher working for the E200R, but to use that will require libusb working with rbutil. 23.36.21 Quit Guile`` (Client Quit) 23.36.35 Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) 23.36.52 # do you plan to fix http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510 - nano bug? 23.37.02 # Who are you asking? 23.37.03 # linuxstb_: well, libusb inclusion in rbutil isn't a problem. But it seems to always require the driver on windows. 23.37.10 # Stalwart: we plan to have no bugs at all 23.37.21 # Stalwart: should I answer "no"? 23.37.21 Part webguest34 23.37.32 Quit Guile`` (Client Quit) 23.37.45 Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) 23.37.45 # i'm using last working revision now... but at some point you'll implement some must-have feature... =\ 23.37.58 # Stalwart: i might have a look at it some day 23.37.59 # there are no must-have features ;-) 23.38.05 # can't promise any more than that, my nano is not affected 23.38.10 # bluebrother: not even doom? 23.38.21 # Bagder: remove doom! *g* 23.38.33 # Couldn't we just lower the clock speed until the problem is fixed? 23.38.55 # I could use libusb to detect the attached devices easily. But for detection only I don't want to require the user to install a driver. 23.39.12 # it might be necessary to require for e200r installation. 23.39.12 # linuxstb_: that'd qualify as a hack 23.39.42 # Stalwart: you can always compile rockbox yourself and revert the patch that toubles nano 23.40.15 # but I'm not really sure what's the best way. 23.40.52 # preglow: I didn't say it wasn't... 23.40.57 # if i ever set up toolchain i'll try to fix bug 23.41.15 # setting up the toolchain is faily easy, 23.41.22 # fixing this bug is not. 23.42.09 # there is a pre-setup toolchain hidden in some vmware image ... 23.42.30 # Or you type in the complicated command "tools/rockboxdev.sh" and go to bed 23.42.46 # but i would compile myself a build excluding r14004 (or whatever breaks your nano) instead of waiting for someone to fix this bug. 23.42.57 # heh 23.43.40 # i watched it building... for several hours :P 23.43.52 # jisus, i hate the keynotes, people get over-excited afterwards 23.44.07 # they should be slaped 23.45.24 # i doubt it will compile long 23.45.36 # definitely not entire night 23.47.28 # mine took ~4hours... 23.47.35 # only one of the 3 compilers 23.48.16 # * DerPapst hopes apple announces the mosquito killing ipod soonish. 23.48.20 # i need one ;) 23.48.58 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection) 23.53.49 # are there other plugins people have written for rockbox and are they availiable somewhere? 23.54.02 # (plugins not included in the builds) 23.54.29 # There are probably a few on the patch tracker. 23.54.48 # okay 23.57.21 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04") 23.57.24 Join webguest82 [0] (i=4b49e564@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-78577c153ffdf6f8) 23.57.34 # hello? 23.58.24 Quit webguest82 (Client Quit) 23.58.30 # wow ...