--- Log for 05.12.107 Server: niven.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot_ Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 day and 15 hours ago 00.00.18 # Klevi: well, more less all companies do it to some extent 00.00.46 # we actually might want to check that always. word 82, bit 3. 00.01.32 # Zagor: I was about to say, those seem like the sort of thing we should always check. :) 00.02.05 Quit MethoS- ("Konversation terminated!") 00.04.16 # The sleep issues are most probably not an issue with the sleep command, but with the pio mode when waking up again 00.04.44 # if we want to detect flash specifically, there is a "CFA" bit for that 00.04.58 # amiconn: http://papsti.dyndns.org/upload/fat32_dump_5.5G.bin.zip 00.05.04 # We're communicating at pio4 speed, but a disk that's sent to sleep might wake up in a lower pio mode 00.05.14 Quit kubiix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.05.36 # DerPapst: Yeah, got that already, as well as a dump from a working rockboxed G5.5 00.06.00 # amiconn: well that is only a problem if we go to sleep :-) 00.06.01 # So far we're lucky that most hdds didn't care about such things 00.06.35 # With proper ata transfer speed handling, sending a flash disk to sleep and waking it up again should not cause problems 00.07.36 Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 00.08.48 # the question remains: does sleep have any purpose on a CF card? if not, why bother with it? 00.10.02 # For those I know, it does not 00.10.11 # They usually auto-sleep when not in use 00.11.59 # Even the microdrive used in the ipod mini seems to autosleep. At least disk poweroff has no measurable effect on mini 00.14.07 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat") 00.15.32 Quit ompaul (Client Quit) 00.15.45 Quit OlivierBorowski ("Konversation terminated!") 00.16.01 # bagh, sansa just froze. 00.16.20 Quit Klevi ("Im forcing myself to sleep for trimester exams this week.... Be well everyone =)") 00.16.31 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@resnet06.nat.lancs.ac.uk) 00.17.23 Quit Febs () 00.17.49 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@38.98.196.75) 00.17.59 Quit Febs (Remote closed the connection) 00.19.30 Join EspeonEfi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-THREE-EIGHTEEN.MIT.EDU) 00.20.02 Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.20.42 Quit Delvien (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.20.59 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.21.57 Quit EspeonEfi (Client Quit) 00.22.15 Join Delvien [0] (n=dm@cpe-65-24-167-246.columbus.res.rr.com) 00.22.53 Join radinp [0] (n=pradin@vpnwl-229-104.net.rpi.edu) 00.22.55 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 00.22.55 # * preglow needs a better fixed point log :/ 00.24.28 Part Daolan 00.24.46 # amiconn: you got a 8.24 flog() lying around? :) 00.25.08 Nick Delvien is now known as DM| (n=dm@cpe-65-24-167-246.columbus.res.rr.com) 00.25.32 Quit Langly- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00.25.33 # No, still not 00.25.50 # seems my problem with eq plotter is that i need to shift away too many frac bits 00.28.26 # argghhh, i miss floating point :/ 00.28.55 # even with a perfect 24 bit log, the results aren't good enough 00.30.16 # that hardwired approach is starting to sound a lot more temptiung 00.31.45 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-187-15.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) 00.33.02 Join l7 [0] (n=l7@evil-wire.org) 00.33.41 Quit petur ("Zzzzz") 00.35.13 # http://astroinfo.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/astroinfo/trunk/astroinfo/source/FixedPoint.c?revision=624&view=markup might has some inspiration for a fln() function at least 00.37.22 # at least that one looks rather accurate 00.37.32 # but not too fast 00.37.39 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-THREE-EIGHTEEN.MIT.EDU) 00.39.01 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) 00.39.23 # The principle used for exp() and log() in gray_core.c is easily adjustable for other fixed point formats 00.39.55 # It is based on http://www.quinapalus.com/efunc.html 00.41.20 # amiconn: do you know how accurate they are? 00.42.20 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.43.12 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 00.43.15 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 00.49.09 # The article has some remarks regarding accuracy. I only know that they are accurate enough for gamma calculation 00.52.10 Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@206-159-155-246.netsync.net) 00.52.25 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") 00.52.41 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 00.52.51 Part dan_a 00.53.59 Join Calcipher [0] (n=Calciphe@ool-18bab657.dyn.optonline.net) 00.55.03 # been like 2 weeks or more maybe, I wonder what great advances have been implemented 00.55.55 # Calcipher: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges 00.56.40 # Calcipher: and for a very detailed report: http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html 00.56.41 # * DerPapst thinks that the MajorChanges link should be on the front page 00.57.04 # it still isn't? 00.57.12 # i can't find it 00.57.27 # * DerPapst tries harder 00.57.27 # thanks all of you, I'll take a look 00.57.38 # nope, not on the front page 00.58.18 # amiconn: that algorithm for calculating log's is pretty cool 00.58.19 # If it were, the fact that someone had to look harder would've meant it's not prominent enough anyway, I think. It seems like it, and "Rockbox Features" should be two of the most obvious links. 00.59.41 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.59.42 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 00.59.42 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in) 00.59.49 Join Lebowski_ [0] (n=jc@pool-71-106-183-237.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) 01.00.28 # is it impossible to get e200R to get recognized by a Mac? 01.01.08 # no, I see it on my mac, but mine is rockboxed 01.01.08 # * DerPapst doesn't find "Rockbox Features" on the frontpage either :S 01.01.25 # running 10.4.9 01.01.36 # * DerPapst blames his glases 01.01.38 Quit ender` (" Variables won't. Constants aren't.") 01.01.52 # It never mounts for me 01.02.28 # wierd, I even accessed it at work on one of theyre Imacs 01.02.38 # you have the R model? 01.02.49 # what mode do you use it in? 01.02.52 # yeah I do 01.02.54 # MSC 01.03.08 # me too 01.03.17 Quit l7 ("Lost terminal") 01.03.38 # Lebowski_: this might help: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation 01.04.07 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection) 01.04.09 # hm, maybe not 01.04.36 Join BMill [0] (n=chatzill@pool-71-191-145-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net) 01.04.37 # if doesn't show up with the orignal firwmare Rockbox sure wont help 01.04.39 # so the speex changes were completed? 01.04.54 # Lebowski_: R series don't have a choice named "MSC". What's the actual name of the choice you've picked? 01.05.10 # Rapsody 01.05.20 # mode 01.05.33 # Have you tried mounting it manually? 01.05.35 # so I see it was noted that users should update theyre voice files, is there a detailed description of how to do this for the new speex set up? 01.05.48 # Calcipher: The new instructions are up exactly where the old ones were. 01.06.08 # cool thanks Llorean 01.06.19 Quit BMill (Client Quit) 01.06.23 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 01.06.57 # does anyone know this error code when I use etool "Control message (-71, Protocol error)" 01.07.47 Join nicktastic [0] (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic) 01.10.37 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.11.18 # Lebowski_, are you in manufacturing mode 01.13.05 # i believe so... Blue Ring is light up (nothing on screen) 01.13.45 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@65.75.87.48) 01.14.04 Quit donutman25 (Client Quit) 01.15.04 Quit DM| ("*bashes head against keyboard*") 01.17.46 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01.21.34 Quit lastebil (Remote closed the connection) 01.21.37 Join lastebil [0] (n=truck@cube.lomal.la) 01.23.40 Join zicho [0] (n=martin@c-5f9fe355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) 01.24.15 # Lebowski_, did you hold the REC button while running the e200tool if that is what you are running 01.26.05 Part linuxstb 01.26.45 # yes sir 01.29.30 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 01.31.54 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 01.32.12 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@207-172-204-33.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) 01.33.25 # I don't mean to start a big VCS debate again, but for amiconn and linuxstb, here is an interesting read: http://keithp.com/blog/Repository_Formats_Matter/ 01.33.37 # hey, heres a quick question, if I was going to generate a new voice file, and I just updated from svn after 3 weeks 01.33.59 # do I need to make regular before I make voice? 01.34.05 # amiconn: some of the points in there are those I was trying to make when we last talked about the subject 01.34.22 Nick _pill is now known as pill (i=pill@sloth.shellfx.net) 01.34.42 # so I would have to run configure and run it on normal, then configure-advanced-voice 01.34.46 # then make voice 01.36.21 Quit kugel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.36.23 # Lebowski_, what linux distro are you using 01.37.04 # ubuntu 01.37.08 # I'm using cygwin since I had trouble accessing my debian VMware share 01.37.25 # oops, thought you were asking me 01.38.35 # Calcipher: I'd say so. You'll need to build the new voice file encoding tool at least (rbspeexenc) 01.39.24 # oh? is that a separate process from the normal compiling? 01.39.55 # Calcipher: no it should be built for you if you follow the normal voice building process 01.40.34 # oh ok, hey how do I remove a directory again? I thought it was the rm command 01.40.49 # I wanted to clean out my build dir 01.42.12 Quit PaulJam (".") 01.42.24 # it is the rm command 01.42.28 # -R? 01.42.33 # lowercase -r 01.42.45 # Nico_P: that is an interesting article. 01.42.56 # oh, so what is upper case r in this case? 01.43.17 # safetydan: yeah, I think a lot of it relates to rockbox 01.43.27 # Calcipher: turns out it's an alias for -r anyway so it wouldn't matter 01.43.40 # haha, ok thanks 01.45.03 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@207.155.176.3) 01.45.19 # Nico_P: well it pretty much sold me on git :) 01.45.26 # haha 01.45.37 # weren't you already, though? 01.46.04 # pretty much, but that article added some extra push 01.46.13 # Lebowski_, so you followed the steps that i provided on ABi as a link and you got that message 01.46.38 # the distributed backup and offline operation thing feels like something we need given the unreliability of access to rockbox.org 01.47.35 # Is there a way to push to the central repository WITHOUT having four million revisions added by someone who compulsively commits locally with each added function? 01.47.36 # advcomp, yes 01.47.44 # * Llorean knows very little about git 01.47.58 # Llorean: yes, but that requires the person to rebase 01.48.26 # Llorean: it's more a question of good practice than VCS 01.48.38 # The distributed backup argument is about the only one that makes some sense to me 01.48.49 # I know there's value in having small individual commits to highlight changes as they describe, but there's also value in having the commit that adds the feature add the whole feature, instead of the whole development process for the feature. 01.49.06 # #2 is, I think, completely pointless for Rockbox 01.49.08 # But git being fast on linux doesn't make it magically faster on cygwin or native windows, or easier to learn 01.49.41 # iirc the mozilla project doesn't use git because it's a pain on windows 01.49.45 # #3 is nice, and #1 seems an issue that could be debated since it's really not dependent on what your central repository is using. 01.49.54 # Llorean: MoB was a (semi-)private branch for some time 01.49.56 Join countrymonkey [0] (i=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b99951301adb8ac5) 01.50.02 # Nico_P: Yes, and yet we're using SVN 01.50.06 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-187-15.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) 01.50.24 # I used git to develop MoB ;) 01.50.25 # good grief even the new Sansa View is having Mac USB problems 01.50.49 # Nico_P: I know. My point is more or less "We don't have to move the central repository to git for people to get the advantages of it. 01.50.49 # safetydan: I really don't get the point in the 'offline operation' argument 01.50.59 # cvs could not do offline diffs, svn can. 01.51.04 # Llorean: I'm not saying we have to 01.51.15 # amiconn: I think the point is "local revision history and commits" 01.51.27 # amiconn: but it can't do offline commits. Which is nice if you're a compulsive saver/committer of changes 01.51.48 # I think there's a *very* strong argument for keeping the central repository SVN, since a wide variety of our scripts work off that, and as well it maintains better windows compatibility still. 01.51.52 Join Langly [0] (i=Langly@c-24-21-39-47.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 01.51.52 # amiconn: it's a matter of what is cached locally... another read: http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/11/24/local-caching-a-major-distinguishing-difference-between-vcses/ 01.52.05 # While I do understand the need of an occasional offline diff, I cannot understand what offline commits would be good for 01.52.18 # I have absolutely no use for that 01.52.48 Quit Lebowski_ () 01.53.08 # Llorean: the post-commit hook could be changed to a post-psuh hook 01.53.35 # ok he/she left 01.53.47 # Nico_P: That doesn't solve windows compatibility issues, though. What's the argument *for* making the central repository use git? 01.53.47 # but the windows compatibility argument is compelling, though subject to change 01.54.06 # What *can't* you do right now using svn-git or whatever it's called, that you could do if the central repository were changed? 01.54.30 # amiconn: while working on a feature it sometimes nice to rollback to a previous implementation state without compulsively creating diffs of each change 01.54.41 # Llorean: git-svn adds some limitations, like the need to constantly rebase 01.56.14 # There's one detail that I am mssing in svn compared to cvs, but other than that, I don't need more 01.56.57 # I do want to stress that I'm not trying to push a change of central repo VCS... I was merely following up on a discussion we had earlier. I agree that git has little to offer as a central repo, but it does have very nice features for individual devs 01.57.01 # And the "better merging capabilites" of git aren't explained? Better in what way? 01.57.06 Quit mud-rb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.57.14 # amiconn: no need to track the merges manually 01.57.19 # ? 01.57.38 # I just 'svn up' every now and then 01.57.45 # in svn you need to know what you've merged and you haven't. 01.57.58 # merging is related to branches 01.58.12 # Either there is a conflict, or not. If there is one, I can't see how any other scm could magically avoid that 01.58.29 # Ah, that. Well, we don't use branches 01.58.51 # Nico_P: the followup post to the on you originally linked gives an idea of how you might change the SCM :) http://keithp.com/blogs/Tyrannical_SCM_selection/ 01.59.05 # In case it matters - the cvs feature I am missing is the 'attic' directory 01.59.07 # amiconn: we don't release either... that doesn't mean we shouldn't ;) 01.59.56 Quit countrymonkey ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 02.00.37 # safetydan: nice, thanks :) 02.01.21 # It seems to me the best plan is just to put up a wiki page and list the Pros and Cons of each VCS as they come up 02.01.23 # Llorean: Java has the potential to be faster than C/C++ with a JIT and runtime profiling 02.02.03 # Llorean: we have one about git ;) 02.02.49 # Nico_P: I meant more of a side by side of SVN and Git. A list of Pros ("things it has that the other doesn't") and Cons ("weaknesses it has that the other doesn't, but don't qualify as real features that the other has") 02.03.52 # safetydan: You're saying that a program can be written in JAVA in such a way that it's impossible for a C program to do the same thing, only faster? 02.03.55 # yeah, quite a good idea 02.05.18 # safetydan: I don't disagree that JAVA could be faster than C under certain circumstances, but mean to imply that in terms of absolute speed, the C version of a program should always have the potential to be made in such a way as to be faster than the JAVA version on the same hardware (assuming it's not that theoretical native JAVA cpu or other such chicanery) 02.06.18 # Llorean: it's a subtle point. Basically C code can only be optimised for one case (say -mcore2-duo). Since Java has an intermediate representation it can be optimised for whatever target your code happens to be running on. 02.06.32 # Yes. I don't disagree with that. 02.07.47 Join mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@084202137013.customer.alfanett.no) 02.07.47 # Llorean: for example http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gcc&lang2=java 02.08.00 # but the embedded space is a different kettle of fish and Java isn't particularly suited for that 02.08.14 # * safetydan waits for the "offtopic" call :) 02.08.19 # safetydan: Does the edit to my post suit you then? Or should I elucidate a bit more for their sake? 02.10.21 # Llorean: nah, that's plenty. The only other point is that Java is not an acronym 02.11.32 # Ah, yes 02.11.36 # on a slightly more on-topic note, the iPod's are all clocked at 80 MHz at the moment aren't they? 02.11.44 # Yes 02.11.58 # I always want to type it JAVA because I lived one island over from Java, and it differentiates them in my mind. 02.12.47 # Fair point. 02.13.50 # But java also works, and looks less acronymy 02.17.58 Quit Soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.18.14 # safetydan: All PP targets use 30MHz and 80MHz for cpu scaling. 02.18.14 Quit Nico_P (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.20.28 # amiconn: the cpu supports up to 100 MHz doesn't it? Any reason we don't allow boosting that high? 02.20.33 # apart from heat 02.20.44 # No it does not, or rather, we don't know 02.20.47 # damnit, I forgot the syntax for providing tts options, to specify a voice to use 02.21.08 # when using configure 02.21.18 # PP5020 (ipod G4, color, mini G1, iriver H10) supports up to 80MHz according to the product brief 02.21.37 # was it "voice:"VW Kate" 02.21.40 Join Soap [0] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 02.21.45 # PP5022 (ipod mini G2 (only!), Sansa c200) supports up to 100MHz 02.22.04 # ipod Nano and Video use PP5021 for which there is no product brief 02.22.05 # ah, so it's only one cpu that might support up to 100 MHz then 02.22.06 # night all 02.22.15 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") 02.22.54 # * karashata randomly ran across this: http://web.tagus.ist.utl.pt/~rui.neves/se2005/basedoIpod_5002_brief_0108_Public.pdf 02.23.03 # The PP5021 reports itself as a PP5022C in software, so I think it's a PP5022 that doesn't reach the full PP5022 specs 02.23.18 # For safety, we assume it allows up to 80MHz 02.24.15 # Also, the PP5022 might cause heat problems in the tiny Mini G2 and especially Sansa c200 cases when running at 100MHz 02.24.39 # makes sense. I'm assuming the original firmware never clocked them that high? 02.25.51 # The PP5002, however, is specced 90MHz, and (1) our PP5002 targets don't have tiny cases, plus (2) we don't have power consumption problems anymore on PP5002, unlike on PP502x 02.26.13 # So to compensate for the broken cache, we could go 90MHz on PP5002 02.27.05 Quit radinp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02.28.15 # All PP targets of which I have analysed the PLL setup after bootup without rockbox intervention boot either at 24MHz (the PP default clock - ipods), or 80MHz (iriver H10, Sansas) 02.28.39 # I'm recieving the following error when trying to "make voice" using a current build updated from svn, /bin/sh/ -c: line 1: Syntax error near unexpected token '<<<' 02.28.44 # And the sansas have PP5022 (c200) resp. PP5024 (e200) 02.30.05 # All that said, I once tried 96MHz on my mini G2. It was perfectly stable (or rather, no more unstable than usually) even with a lot of the stuff enabled which I don't normally use (EQ etc) 02.30.32 # followed by /bin/sh/ -c: line 1: '<<<<<.mine' then make: *** [voice] error 2 02.31.10 # Calcipher: You have conflict markers in your working copy 02.31.17 Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp529.hk.centurytel.net) 02.32.04 # I have no idea what that means, or how to resolve that issue 02.32.38 # I think its better to keep the general 80MHz limit for PP502x. Going higher would make the power consumption problems even worse, while it would not solve performance problems in general, since not all PP502x targets could use a higher clock 02.34.21 # We're already better than ipl, which runs PP502x at 75MHz, and PP5002 at only 66MHz, even if 75MHz are intended (sic!) 02.35.39 # I think at this point we really should be able to overcome almost all our performance problems without clock increases anyway, right? 02.35.48 # Well, with the exception of perhaps monkey's audio, which doesn't count 02.36.33 # anyone have an idea of how I can resolve my compiling issue? 02.36.59 # I don't know what went wrong 02.39.55 # karashata: That's the PP5002 product brief which is (or was) publicly available from portalplayer, as well as the PP5020 and PP5022 product briefs 02.40.19 # Unfortunately they don't tell much apart from very general stuff 02.40.53 # * karashata nods slightly 02.40.58 # I figured that much 02.41.30 # need to get rid of that espeak voice before i go to bed 02.41.41 Join raulh [0] (n=raul@71-37-217-131.phnx.qwest.net) 02.41.54 # hello everybobody i was wondering.. 02.42.04 # can you turn ipod into linux using linux?? 02.42.08 # someone please help!, should I dump the entire source dir? and get the source again 02.42.18 # raulh: This is #Rockbox. Perhaps you meant to join #ipodlinux? 02.42.24 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.42.26 # nooo 02.42.52 # all i mean is rockbox linux transferable on ubuntu 02.43.00 # rockbox isnt linux 02.43.34 # what is it -_- 02.43.35 # did you mean to ask if you can use your ipod under linux with rockbox? 02.43.41 # yes 02.44.01 # then you can 02.44.04 # raulh: Rockbox is from scratch. 02.44.26 # conflicting makers in working copy, so what should I do? 02.44.43 # oh.. well ipodlinuyx.org there server dosn';t hve ther downloads anymore.. 02.45.02 # is this rockbox just as good? 02.45.11 # becuase i haaaatteee apple.. and windows.. 02.45.33 # raulh: I would suggest the manual. 02.45.43 # * Calcipher hears the crickets in the distance 02.45.46 # Calcipher: try "svn revert -R ." in your source directoyr 02.45.58 # you'll lose any changes you've made to the source though 02.47.44 # oh, so maybe I screwed up the source sometime long before and had never noticed, oh no, there is an edit I made to the configure file, to let it allow me to input tts voice options with spaces, for specifying voices like "VW Kate", because otherwise it would fail 02.47.50 Quit DrCrow ("Leaving") 02.48.00 # thats the only edit to the source that I care about 02.48.28 # Calcipher: it's not likely something you've done, just svn merge issues on update. The revert command will force SVN to restore everything to a pristine state 02.49.20 # ok well llorean can i install roxbox with linux os? as in (i'm using ubuntu) 02.49.29 # oh ok, so I will save a back up of my edited configure file, so I can compare with the new one, I think I remember what lines it was 02.49.44 # Calcipher: YOu don't need to change 'configure' in order to use sapi voices with spaces in the name. I do this all the time 02.49.53 # raulh: there are linux instructions in the manual.. 02.49.54 # raulh: Please see the manual. There wouldn't be Linux installation instructions in it if you couldn't... 02.50.08 # Just put the whole argument into single (!) quotes, i.. 02.50.29 # i.e. in your case: '/voice:VW Kate' 02.51.32 # ok, I will try the svn revert, then the single quotes technique, thanks amiconn and safetydan 02.52.33 # just to make sure Calcipher its "svn revert -R ." everything in that quotes. i know some people have messed that up. including me 02.55.14 # you werent kidding psycho_maniac, I was trying -r and was getting a syntax error 02.56.21 # gaaaaah 02.56.40 # anyone know how to find a mounting point with linux?>ubuntu 02.56.41 # Calcipher: yeah that's one case where -r/-R are different :) 02.56.55 # raulh: type mount and it will list all mounted devices 02.57.01 # ty 02.57.57 # where am I going wrong 02.58.35 # what do you mean? 02.58.38 # oh, I see, I have to run "make" then "make zip" 02.59.25 # I was getting some error about apps dir not existing and other things, because after setting configure for normal build I tried make zip 02.59.43 # without first doing make, which I have running now 03.00.49 # looks like things should go smoothly from here, I remember the process more now, I had only really done it once a few weeks ago 03.01.36 # I'm going to retry these steps in vmware debian, since I got rid of zonealarm 03.04.36 # Llorean, thanks for your help, and scorche thank you too! 03.07.19 # uumm.. one more last question guys... 03.07.33 # i just manually installed it and am i done? if not what else i need to do 03.09.18 # raulh: the manual should tell you everything you need to know :) 03.10.13 # ok nvm i did thanks for all ur help bye 03.10.25 # need get shuteye for school... 03.11.19 # omg its so nice! bye!! 03.11.22 Part raulh 03.16.47 Quit Billenium ("Ex-Chat") 03.18.09 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 03.20.33 # great, its working perfectly in cygwin, thanks safetydan and amiconn 03.23.07 Quit pill ("changing servers") 03.23.28 Part pixelma 03.23.30 Quit marcosource (Remote closed the connection) 03.23.34 Join marcosource [0] (i=marco@cakebox.net) 03.24.44 Join raulh [0] (n=raul@71-37-217-131.phnx.qwest.net) 03.25.07 # now i feel dumb.. how do i add music files to my ipod rockbox? 03.25.21 # i cannot find any info on it on the manual...pdf 03.25.54 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.26.57 # raulh: make a folder on your iPod called "music" and copy your songs there 03.27.07 # it's really up to you how you do it, but that's the general idea 03.27.20 Join radinp [0] (n=pradin@psyduck-08.dynamic.rpi.edu) 03.27.28 # thnx wouldn't that make x2 as much files??? 03.27.58 # why? 03.28.30 # becuz i got a 2gb lol.. 03.28.31 # unless you're copying them twice I can't see why there would be twice as many files 03.29.20 # eh, ok thanks 03.39.23 Join alienbiker99 [0] (n=alienbik@ool-44c126d4.dyn.optonline.net) 03.46.51 # lol sooo many games.. 03.47.16 Join bonbonthejon [0] (n=jon@69.61.203.3) 03.47.22 Nick raulh is now known as rockboxpwns (n=raul@71-37-217-131.phnx.qwest.net) 03.51.31 Quit bonbonthejon ("Leaving.") 03.53.49 Join bonbonthejon [0] (n=jon@69.61.203.3) 03.56.34 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら") 03.56.40 Nick rockboxpwns is now known as linuxftw (n=raul@71-37-217-131.phnx.qwest.net) 03.56.46 Part linuxftw 03.58.26 Join parafin|sleep [0] (i=parafin@parafin.dialup.corbina.ru) 04.10.05 Quit parafin|away (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04.10.39 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 04.10.47 Part radinp 04.16.27 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) 04.26.19 Join billenium [0] (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 04.31.47 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection) 04.39.57 Quit psycho_maniac (" bye") 04.40.15 Part hcs 04.41.26 Part bonbonthejon 04.42.28 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.42.56 Join iwantanimac [0] (n=iwantani@124-169-19-238.dyn.iinet.net.au) 04.49.06 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) 04.51.46 Quit iwantanimac ("iMac, out.") 04.58.30 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.58.57 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5406.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.08.06 Quit animeloe ("Leaving") 05.10.10 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@ool-44c2be34.dyn.optonline.net) 05.10.12 Join Veinor [0] (n=veinor@wikipedia/Veinor) 05.10.28 Part Veinor 05.11.24 # safetydan: I really don't understand why the frequently suggested solution to "it runs to slow" is "speed up the processor." I remember on guy came around and started running his iPod video at 90mhz. Of course, being a bit nutty, he raised the unboosted speed to 60 for absolutely no known reason. 05.14.23 # Llorean: tweaking a couple of values to up the clock rate is much easier than having to think about how to make something genuinely faster 05.14.50 # what irks me is that there's good code in iboy, but none of the rockboy fans seem willing to work to merge that code in 05.16.04 # Maybe they don't know? 05.16.31 # I heard iBoy was faster, but that seemed vague, and I also heard it doesn't have sound, which suggested to me at least that maybe it was faster for that very reason 05.17.25 # the wiki page for iboy says it supports sound 05.17.42 Quit animeloe ("Leaving") 05.17.46 # Well, there's hearsay for yah 05.19.01 # There was a sound sync patch in the tracker that actually made our Rockboy's sound quite good, but somehow what got accepted didn't work out the same 05.20.09 # hrm, the ipodlinux forums seem to indicate they're about the same speed 05.20.46 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) 05.20.50 # I imagine they're optimized in different areas though, so some cross pollination couldn't hurt? 05.21.06 # and then I see posts saying iboy is much faster 05.21.07 Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05.22.55 # " i dont even use rockbox(i dont know why i even put it on my ipod, cuz all it has is doom and iboy and music playback " 05.23.16 # Maybe we need a slogan. 05.23.21 # I like how music playback came last and with such a disdainful tone. 05.23.52 # Something like "Rockbox. It Rocks the Box. With Music. Because that's what it's for. Music. If you don't want good Music features, don't install it. For real." 05.24.15 # Wouldn't 'Rockbox. It's for music' just do the job? 05.24.35 # surely not 05.24.41 # then whenever anyone asks about other features you just say 'it's for music' 05.26.44 # man, reading the ipl forums makes me appreciate the heavy moderation on ours all the more 05.29.38 # I kinda wish we didn't need to moderate like we do. It's wearing on me, and tends to result in me crossing the line from time to time, but it kinda seems like you have to choose between "too much" and "too little" sometimes 05.29.56 Quit Langly ("I dont have anything to say, thats why I'm quitting in the first place.") 05.30.40 # I imagine it's hard being the bad guy all the time. 05.31.52 # Not my favorite duty ever, but it kinda feels like if we I ever stop I'm either thrusting it on someone else, or I'm going to have a mess to clean up if I ever start again 05.41.55 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) 05.45.24 Join Langly [0] (i=Langly@c-24-21-39-47.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 05.50.43 Quit karashata ("I'm a fluffy dragon, anyone who gets in my way will be snuggled to death!") 05.52.05 Join webguest02 [0] (i=cbdc7c7e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9d9091806a3c42ab) 05.53.19 Quit webguest02 (Client Quit) 05.58.14 Quit animeloe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.06.08 Quit Calcipher (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06.12.01 Join pradin [0] (n=pradin@psyduck-08.dynamic.rpi.edu) 06.14.43 Join b_eb [0] (i=44cc4bdc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-133b6c44a3d37e60) 06.15.27 Quit b_eb (Client Quit) 06.15.30 Join b_ebo [0] (i=44cc4bdc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8e4ff1893a0850fa) 06.16.13 Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06.16.24 # I'm having a problem after installing rockbox. windows comes up with a new hardware found wizard asking me to install drivers. if I boot the ipod in ipod mode it doesnt complain 06.16.44 # the device it finds is "rockbox media player" 06.18.30 # cant seem to find any information in the forums 06.19.02 # b_ebo: Did you read the manual? 06.19.19 # That's Rockbox's USB mode, which currently is only good for charging. 06.19.21 # yes.. the ipod works fine 06.19.28 # ah 06.19.49 # ok, so its fine then. everything is ok, I just have to boot into disc mode then? 06.19.55 # In other words, when you want to charge within Rockbox, that's what will come up. If you want to actually transfer files, you'll need to use the OF. 06.20.07 # gotcha 06.20.41 # thanks, that answers my questions. I read where it said it was not functional, but it didnt mention anything about hardware manager 06.20.59 # Of course not. You're supposed to ignore that. 06.22.19 # I know this is mentioned, but it might only be mentioned in the MajorChanges wiki page, or the commit itself. I'm not entirely sure. 06.22.20 Quit b_ebo ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 06.33.21 Join james01 [0] (n=james@EV-ESR-74-215-26-69.fuse.net) 06.38.55 Quit pradin (Connection timed out) 06.42.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.42.43 Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com) 06.56.16 Join mud-rb [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.9.217.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 07.08.09 Join karashata [0] (n=karashat@207.61.208.119) 07.14.21 Quit animeloe_ ("This computer has gone to sleep") 07.27.53 Join woodensoul [0] (n=woodenso@72.86.92.80) 07.28.45 Part safetydan 07.28.55 Join Jon-Kha [0] (i=jon-kha@80-248-247-190.cust.suomicom.fi) 07.29.50 # Don't laugh, but I'm making a WPS for the iRiver H120/H140 with album art. Should I go ahead and have irfanview create grayscale .bmps or just let rockbox convert them? 07.32.04 Join pradin [0] (n=pradin@psyduck-08.dynamic.rpi.edu) 07.37.08 Join mud-rb_ [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.222.22.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 07.46.36 Join mud-rb__ [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.222.24.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 07.46.51 Quit mud-rb (Nick collision from services.) 07.46.59 Nick mud-rb__ is now known as mud-rb (n=mud@dialup-4.156.222.24.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 07.47.36 # isnt xm alot like the mod format? 07.47.51 # or s3m? 07.54.55 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat") 08.06.56 Quit mud-rb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.07.16 Quit mud-rb (Remote closed the connection) 08.07.59 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 08.09.37 Join pondlife [0] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) 08.14.18 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) 08.15.06 Join j0tt [0] (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) 08.24.00 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) 08.27.33 Quit jott (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.31.40 Quit animeloe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08.33.55 Join gromit` [0] (i=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) 08.33.57 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08.37.35 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) 08.38.18 Quit woodensoul () 08.40.17 Quit gromit`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.41.19 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B15F49.dip.t-dialin.net) 08.41.53 Part pradin 08.42.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.44.35 Quit BigBambi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.50.04 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) 08.52.22 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") 08.55.32 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.) 08.55.34 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) 08.57.15 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan) 08.59.33 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 08.59.43 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.59.47 Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.) 08.59.50 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 08.59.53 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 09.03.56 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.07.04 Join Darksaboteur [0] (n=chatzill@75.73.87.203.static.nsw.chariot.net.au) 09.07.10 Quit Darksaboteur (Client Quit) 09.08.09 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.11.43 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) 09.14.39 Quit gromit` ("Coyote finally caught me") 09.17.46 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09.18.31 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) 09.19.32 # * Zagor is getting seriously annoyed by all the spurious PM requests in the tracker 09.19.51 # PM requests? 09.20.13 # project manager request 09.20.27 # "please reopen this bug, I want more features" etc. 09.21.04 # I think I'll limit it so only developers can submit such requests 09.21.14 Join homielowe [0] (n=chatzill@d207-81-67-190.bchsia.telus.net) 09.21.45 # Once or twice a reopen request has been useful because the closer misread the task, but yeah. People can just open a new task for those, perhaps 09.22.20 # Can you get rid of that silly Vote thing? 09.22.22 # Zagor: can't devs reopen tasks anyway? 09.22.30 # they can always ask in here for us to reopen it 09.22.47 # rasher: yeah I think you're right 09.32.37 Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@host169-98-static.34-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) 09.32.42 # Hi all! I'm reading GPL V3. 09.32.53 # ooh - light bedtime reading if ever there was some 09.33.04 # :) 09.33.45 # what is the problem with GPLV.3 and rockbox? I think I understood it, but here stands people which probably understood it better... 09.34.10 # mrkiko: v3 is incompatible with v2 09.35.12 # but probably you would change the rockbox' license if you don't have good motivations in not doing so... 09.35.18 # right? 09.35.35 # that makes no sense 09.35.35 # I'm trying to catch those motivations... 09.35.54 # mrkiko: getting the permission of every copyright holder isn't easy. 09.36.18 # I also seem to recall we're split roughtly 50/50 on those who like the v2 license, and those who like the v3 license 09.36.22 # eheh... right : 09.36.34 # although we agreed that people who change just a few lines are not the copyright holders of those files 09.37.01 # GodEater_: and then there is the group who doesn't really care about either 09.37.07 # that too ;) 09.37.10 # didnt we decide rockbox hadnt definatly said v2 only so we could go v2 or later/v3 without a problem? 09.37.51 # JdGordon: I really disagree with that. The headers point to a specific file, containing a specific version. I don't see how that's not definite. 09.38.04 Quit karashata ("I'm a fluffy dragon, anyone who gets in my way will be snuggled to death!") 09.38.14 # ... any way guys: I would like to respect your decisions. Would it be intereginst in your opinion to ask, with the rockbox forum may be, if one exist, what people holding those copyrights thinks? 09.38.20 # so no, we never decided ;) 09.38.28 # do we use any code from other projects (codecs, plugins) which is v2 only? 09.38.36 # rasher: The file they point to says "v2 or later" though, I thought 09.38.37 # mrkiko: most people who hold the copyrights don't read the forums 09.39.19 # hmh... I expected this. 09.39.45 # ... aniway, if we want, probably we can get theyr opinion without being "pedantic"... 09.39.46 # markun: we have linux code 09.39.49 # ... ?? 09.40.09 # Llorean: No. It contains the text "If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation." 09.40.33 # But I maintain that pointing to docs/COPYING which is v2, does count as specifying a version 09.40.54 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection) 09.41.03 # and the question is what the definition of "The Program" is. if it's the whole archive, it definitely says v2. but each specific source file doesn't say that. 09.41.08 # mrkiko: why do you care which version Rockbox uses ? 09.41.26 # isnt rockbox based on linux? 09.41.31 # Zagor: it says "the file COPYING" though, which is v2... 09.41.42 # DarkStylist: No. 09.41.49 # mhm... 09.41.56 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 09.41.59 # for mainly two reasons. 09.42.03 # I asked FSF this during their big irc q&a session, but they didn't want to answer in public... :-) 09.42.06 # has it something in common with another operating system? 09.42.10 # Zagor: Also, if the file that proclaims "v2" is the "v2" license that also says "or any later version", I don't see how it can work otherwise, unless you have the GPLv2 license included (as the mandate requires you do) while somehow stripping it of all mention of it being version 2? 09.42.14 # DarkStylist: no 09.42.19 # oh ok 09.42.21 # 1 - I red the GPL V 3 and It doesn't seems to me so different from V2 in many important aspects, but this is an opinion. 09.42.27 # another motivation is the rockbox-espeak problems... 09.42.29 # Llorean: the v2 doesn't say "or any later version" 09.42.48 # rasher: But the COPYING file included with our source does, I thought. 09.42.57 # Llorean: Where? 09.42.58 # rasher: How do you interpret the sentence in section 9 of COPYING then? "If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation." 09.43.21 # linuxstb: but the program specifies v2, by specifically including the v2 license 09.43.30 # Exactly. 09.43.34 # Zagor: But how can you do v2 or later then, ever? 09.43.38 # Zagor: Then in what case would section 9 apply? 09.43.46 # Llorean: by specifying "v2 or later" in the header files? 09.44.04 # Header files. 09.44.07 # Llorean: this is not a clear-cut situation. valid arguments exist for both viewpoints. 09.44.21 # Or "v2 as included in COPYING or any later version" 09.44.22 # Zagor: And it doesn't specify "v2" at all - it specifies that the license is in "COPYING", and that license says that any version of the GPL can also be used. 09.44.26 # I can't believe we're having this discussion again =/ 09.44.27 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 09.44.49 # linuxstb: what is "it"? "the program"? if so, first you must define "the program"... 09.44.51 # GodEater_: just my fault! :) 09.44.52 # linuxstb: But only if no version has been specified - and it has, since it specifies "the license in COPYING", which is v2 09.45.15 # Zagor: Yes, "it" is all source files with the standard Rockbox header. 09.45.46 # linuxstb: why only the source files? why not the entire source archive, which includes the v2 license? you see how this is not an obvious situation... 09.46.18 # I really don't understand how you can argue that no version has been specified. The header clearly states that the file is under the license in COPYING, which is *specifically* version 2 09.46.30 # rasher: Yes, and "v2" of the GPL has a clause that if the program doesn't specify a license, any version can be used. The License is definitely not part of the program IMO. 09.46.34 # Ok: I'll follow the lesson now... 09.46.52 # linuxstb: But the program *does* specify a version. 09.46.57 # Sorry to all those annoied people which doesn't want talk about licenses 09.47.03 # linuxstb: That is, the version that is in COPYING, being v2 09.47.06 # mrkiko: :-) 09.47.17 # mrkiko, it is an important topic, though. 09.47.25 # mrkiko: we're used to this subject, we have it repeatedly ;-) 09.47.37 # aaaaaahhh! Recursive argument. stkov! 09.48.39 # http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/12/05/i-solved-the-ams-sansas-firmware-checksum-puzzle/ 09.48.57 Join dryahetzeph [0] (n=HydraPhe@209-62-215-8.mobiletel.com) 09.48.59 Nick dryahetzeph is now known as hydrapheetz (n=HydraPhe@209-62-215-8.mobiletel.com) 09.49.42 # good effort at changing the subject Bagder :) 09.49.49 # haha 09.49.52 # rasher: The license is not part of the program though. 09.50.02 # Bagder: hurray! 09.51.26 # linuxstb: the files do not exist in a vacuum. What if the header had simply said "see COPYING for copyright details.". Would it then be impossible to use the files, since they don't explicitly specify a license individually? 09.52.48 # I think using this loophole is a very dodgy at best, and an underhanded way to change licensing. 09.53.10 # I don't think it's underhand, it's pretty clear in the license text. 09.53.28 # Even if it may just be technically correct, I think it'd be morally wrong to use it. 09.54.51 # Isn't one of the objections to GPL V3 the fact that it places additional restrictions on potential users of the source? THe anti-tivoisation clause thingy. 09.55.20 # linuxstb: it is not in any way clear. 09.55.43 # rasher: In what way? 09.55.49 # safetydan: that's my objection to it certainly - but it's why linuxstb likes it :) 09.56.00 # linuxstb: about 42 09.56.05 # safetydan: I believe so - but then it comes down to a matter of philosophy, so there's no point arguing... ;) 09.57.13 # BSD and be done with it I say! :) 09.57.30 # Bagder: so, could you run code on the thing? (if you owned one) 09.58.07 # aniway... 10.00.36 # The problem was relative to adopting espeak on rockbox. Without real-time speech on rockbox, no real accessibility will be possible. The work to do then, if you solve the problem, would be aniway VERY MUCH... but it may be aniway interesting... 10.01.46 # mrkiko, espeak built from when it was GPLv2 could be used, though. 10.01.46 # it would be a very nice feature, but I don't agree that rockbox isn't really accessible without it 10.02.36 # markun: but in how many cases you may be able to select a directory ? 10.03.20 # markun: in how many cases you will need to search simply a file? 10.03.29 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 10.03.37 # mrkiko: have you used Rockbox with voice and .talk clips? 10.14.15 # Yes, I'd think it's pretty much accessible without espeak... 10.14.31 # but would take a lot less work with it 10.14.57 # I think I'd prefer to use pregenerated voices anyway; espeak sounds worse IMHO. 10.16.12 # surely we'd leave that as an option anyway ? 10.16.23 # I know you windows boys like your SAPI... 10.16.55 # I use espeak as a SAPI voice =) 10.17.32 # We would, of course. But I'd still like to know what real-time would bring that would be so useful. Reading out a book in text format is one I can come up with. 10.17.34 # (just for the only known (to me) free possibility to have a swedish voice) 10.18.22 # pondlife: I would think it would be more convenient (for filenames and, if someone does it, tags) than having to pre-generate clips. 10.18.42 Join sanlist [0] (i=c27f0811@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2e47169fc4ad0cf5) 10.19.12 # Hmm, I suppose so. It's not exactly hard to run Voicebox though.. 10.19.31 # SHould the latest commit by Mark Arigo improve runtime on sansas? 10.19.40 # Would be neat for tags. 10.20.51 # pondlife: clips for tags can be generated from the database files though. See FS#7984 10.22.22 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p549674EE.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.22.41 # Can rbutil create .talk clips? 10.22.42 # It might not apply anymore due to recent changes in voice.pl, but should be trivial 10.22.59 # linuxstb: I believe it can, but it requires a bit of work on Windows 10.23.40 # Ideally it'd interface with sapi directly, but I think it currently requires make_voice.vbs 10.24.36 # linuxstb: I think it could but wasn't adapted for speex yet (IIRC) 10.24.48 # Ah. 10.25.07 # * linuxstb reads the rbutil changelog and sees the SVN version can now use rbspeexenc (but not the binary release) 10.25.12 # and I never tried... 10.26.54 # linuxstb: thanks for pointing that out :) 10.27.08 # Would anyone disagree with renaming the current RockboxUtility wiki page to something like RockboxUtilityOld and renaming RockboxUtilityQt to RockboxUtility? 10.27.28 # Seems reasonable. 10.27.30 # I'm in favour of that 10.27.37 # * linuxstb politely requests that Bagder makes it so... 10.27.42 # the 'qt' suffix is mighty weird 10.27.52 # I'll update the links in the manual. 10.29.02 # done! 10.29.49 # manual updated too. 10.30.37 # sanlist: it sounds like it 10.30.53 # might make sense to trigger a manual rebuild 10.31.33 # Yes, the link on the RockboxUtilityQt error page to Rockboxutility isn't very obvious... 10.31.53 # hehe 10.32.17 # Those twiki developers didn't pay much thought to the UI... Or is it just our skin? 10.32.30 Quit mrkiko (Remote closed the connection) 10.33.05 # markun: was it a response to a known bug? Or just a result of code inspection? 10.33.09 # I created a new *qt page now with nothing but a pointer 10.34.05 # markun: there's not FS mentioned in the commit message, that's why I'm asking. But I also understand that you can't know for sure. 10.34.47 # markun, sanlist: I also hope it makes the radio support more stable - sometimes on my c200 the frequencies were all off (a reboot often helped). Will try in a bit 10.36.30 # pixelma: you are lucky. my c200 radio is a lot more troublesome. the 1sec-delay-per-0.05Mhz is just a start... 10.37.02 # My c200 radio seems to work fine except that my headphone jack isn't firmly connected and requires a little wiggling 10.37.07 # sanlist: I don't even know who Mark Arigo is. My guess was only based on the commit. 10.37.12 # * Llorean got lucky in the c200 lottery, apparently 10.37.24 # markun: so was mine :-) 10.37.30 # well sometimes I need to use the radio in the original firmware shortly to fix that 10.37.39 # markun: low_light 10.38.19 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Administ@ip565fbeaa.direct-adsl.nl) 10.38.50 # pixelma: ah, then I know him :) 10.39.05 # Llorean: have you ever tried using the radio after listening to music (files) before? That's when the radio gets "confused" most often on mine, when starting the radio right after boot there are no problems 10.40.20 # pixelma: I think only once 10.42.23 # hey guys, yesterday i've been discussing if the SanDisk E280 would be any good. it works with rockbox too. But after reading a review and a bunch of comments, i've found out they say the player freezes all the time. I think this does not apply when rockbox is installed? 10.42.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.44.02 # bughunter2: it doesn't apply to me at all, OF nor rockbox 10.44.14 # hmm, you have the E280 exact? 10.44.28 # no, but the e200 series are all the same except the nand flash size 10.44.41 # some people say it freezes after 4 days or sometimes 2 weeks. also, SanDisk doesn't create replacement USB cables? is it some special USB cable? 10.45.10 # it's a custom one, yes 10.45.16 # and a custom plug in the player 10.45.24 # too bad there is no replacement? 10.45.53 # any who, E280 seems a good choice still? rockbox works with the mechanical scroll wheel too? 10.46.31 # wouldn't be much use if it didn't.... 10.46.51 # well yes 10.47.23 # Bagder: can you recommend the SanDisk player? 10.47.51 # yes, at least the v1 so far 10.47.59 # preglow: What made you think that Lear wote the ac3 metadata parser? My memory is telling me I wrote it... 10.48.06 # okay thanks 10.55.01 # hmm... should a warning about new/other generations of players (like Nano G2/G3, the Sansa v2 players, maybe Ipod Classic) be also in the manual (part of the installation instruction along with the other notes)? 10.55.39 # doesn't rockbox work on Sansa v2? any chance that i'll get a v2 when buying sansa e280 now? 10.55.51 # pixelma: I think so, yes. Preferably with a way to distinguish them. 10.56.06 # bughunter2: if you buy a new, you will most likely get a v2 10.56.12 # and rockbox won't work? 10.56.20 # http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/v2.html 10.56.46 # ouch 10.56.53 # linuxstb: yes, I'll try to explain this too 10.57.08 # why do manufacturers keep doing that 10.57.35 # To upgrade to newer, faster, cheaper, more efficient processors... 10.57.42 # bughunter2: Well it's a new device, essentially 10.57.48 # hmm :) 10.58.14 # i could help making rockbox work on it 10.58.16 # linuxstb: I even think someone (bluebrother?) started a wiki page on how to distinguish players and found a helpful link for the Ipods... 10.58.21 # although i'm not going to tear the player apart when i have it 10.59.12 # pixelma: I've also started to add support to ipodpatcher to recognise the newer ipods. I think it's working, but haven't got round to committing it yet. But after I do that, rbutil should be able to give a message to users if it finds an unsupported ipod. 10.59.32 # I've no idea if we can do the same with the v2 Sansas though... 10.59.48 # ah, IdentifyPlayers it is 10.59.58 # -s 11.01.01 # pixelma: Maybe the manual could say something like "if your ipod/sansa was purchased after [date], then it may be a "classic/v2/..." and Rockbox will not work on it. See IdentifyingPlayers for instructions on identifying your exact model." 11.01.53 # oh heck, the original firmware is fine too i think. at least no iTunes-clone and you can just drag n drop files onto it 11.02.14 # i'll consider buying one, and maybe help getting rockbox work onto it 11.02.16 # :) 11.04.07 # linuxstb: nice (about ipodpatcher). The note should still be before the automated installation part, I would think. And I also think that the note shouldn't be too long, so the link to the wiki (as done in other parts) would be better than writing long essays 11.08.24 Join gromit` [0] (i=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) 11.08.40 # gotta go to school :) 11.08.44 # have fun 11.09.33 Part bughunter2 11.13.59 Part sanlist 11.14.34 # linuxstb: svn blame 11.14.40 # linuxstb: feel free to change 11.18.30 Join Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 11.22.44 Quit Bagder (Nick collision from services.) 11.22.49 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 11.44.48 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 11.48.42 Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@host169-98-static.34-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) 11.49.25 # Hi all again! :) 11.49.41 # Are there victims regarding my license question? 11.50.59 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 11.52.06 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 11.55.03 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 11.56.32 # preglow: OK, fixed. "svn blame" isn't an accurate indicate of (C) holder... 11.58.17 # sure, but hunting for copyright holders isn't what i like to spend my rockbox time doing 11.58.56 # and if the code had been moved around enough for svn blame not to show it, i would have had to check out different revisions and check them 11.59.14 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) 12.00.04 Quit safetydan ("Leaving") 12.02.10 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12.02.11 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 12.06.54 Join rp- [0] (n=rp@193.154.222.107) 12.15.07 # How can I help us in hunting (C) holders? 12.15.46 # I will help you even if I have to look over all those .C and .S files! 12.15.59 # mrkiko: you're assuming we want to change the license - no such thing has been agreed. 12.16.35 # I think the consensus right now is "it's not worth the trouble coming to a consensus". At least not yet. 12.16.55 # no 12.16.59 # that's my view of the situation as well 12.17.17 # Right now, the only problem is a few months of espeak improvements. 12.17.22 # so there's no point chasing down (C) holders 12.17.34 # I would help aniway: I know how difficult writing code can be, so I think all should be clear regarding licenses... 12.17.59 # mrkiko: did it sound "clear" previously? 12.18.28 # there's never going to be anything clear about legalese. That's why there are lawyers. 12.18.29 # it's a muddy area, finding copyright holders will only partially solve that 12.19.24 # If you found 100% of copyright holders (or at least enough that all other parts could be rewritten), you could of course re-license. But any effort less than that is pretty useless 12.20.06 # and given we don't even know if we're going to relicense - it's a complete waste of time. 12.20.47 # ehehe... 12.21.24 # but in some files, especially audio drivers I think, have absolutely no autor name in them. 12.21.46 # so you can't track them down anyway... 12.22.17 # well, finding the copyright holder is a good idea for noname-parts imho 12.22.18 # That's where svn history comes into play. 12.22.25 # It would at least be nice if we could come to some agreement about exactly what the current licensing is though... Am I alone in thinking section 9 applies to files with the standard Rockbox header? 12.22.42 # * linuxstb just wants a show of hands, and promises not to argue any more ;) 12.23.08 # linuxstb: I'm leaning back and forth and I'm not really sure where I stand in this issue yet 12.23.38 # I don't think I need to say anything here. 12.23.53 # I believe that section 9 does. We point to a file that says "if no version number is mentioned in the code", I think the fact that the file we're pointing to says that means that its own version number isn't the relevant factor. 12.24.13 # So I guess my hand goes for "Currently we're v2 or later" 12.24.23 # And I guess the second question is: "Ignoring the practical problems, would you like Rockbox to go to v3?" 12.24.35 # No, so I can live with us not being v2 or later. :) 12.25.03 # Llorean: It doesn't mention "later" - it's "any version ever published". 12.25.52 # That's true 12.26.08 # linuxstb: I would not like v3, but my opinion on the matter doesn't weigh heavily, considering my tiny amount of contributions. 12.26.50 # linuxstb: I do find it a little doubtful someone will relicense under v1, but I suppose that under my reading they have that option. 12.27.05 Quit FunkyELF ("Leaving") 12.27.38 # my opinion is the same as rasher's 12.30.34 # is there a wiki page about this license topic, so you don't have to rediscuss this whole thing all the time? :) 12.30.47 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955D580.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.30.58 # a wiki page can only represent the opinion of it's author... 12.32.38 Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) 12.36.00 Join Daolan [0] (n=neo-ryan@dslb-084-062-040-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) 12.39.35 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@resnet11.nat.lancs.ac.uk) 12.42.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.44.08 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) 12.44.24 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955D580.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.45.37 Quit parafin|sleep ("So long and thanks for all the fish") 12.45.40 Join parafin [0] (i=parafin@paraf.in) 12.46.46 Part Daolan 12.47.00 Join PaulJam [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3078.gwdg.de) 12.50.17 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@hdp186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 13.05.07 Quit mrkiko (Remote closed the connection) 13.08.30 # would remove() be the safest function to use to delete a function in c? 13.08.54 # delete a function? 13.09.05 # You mean delete a file? 13.09.10 # yes... 13.09.18 # i surely did 13.11.21 # What are the other options? Reading the man page, I can't see the difference between remove() and unlink() - it appears to just call unlink() or rmdir() depending on whether it's a file or dir... 13.11.43 # unlink might look like a unix function 13.12.04 # ah, yeah, remove is a c89/99 function 13.12.13 # unlink is a unix thing 13.12.16 # remove() it is, then 13.12.33 # i don't know if windows cares, but i'll use remove just in case 13.12.37 # Yes. 13.12.51 # As in, I agree that remove() is standard C, so is preferred. 13.14.26 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 13.15.07 # speex encodes music remarkably well... 13.15.27 # preglow: it depends a lot on the kind of music 13.15.42 # some encodes decently, some is catastrophic 13.15.49 # jmspeex: yeah, some of the drums do sound a bit pitched at lower bitrates :) 13.16.10 # (single instrument with "rich" sound tends to be OK) 13.16.24 # multiple "pure" instruments lead to catastropy 13.16.34 # it still performs better than i'd expect 13.17.06 # try some jazz and see it collapse! 13.17.21 # especially if there's complex piano 13.17.37 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13.18.04 # OTOH, rock tends to do OK even with many instruments 13.27.51 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 13.28.31 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@host-194-46-236-147.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net) 13.32.34 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13.42.12 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 13.42.37 Quit desowin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13.42.49 Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy14.netz.sbs.de) 13.49.41 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13.54.16 Join ZincAlloy [0] (i=d9eeef90@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-34ebd22b02c56e67) 14.00.11 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 14.00.39 # /msg nickserv set hide email on 14.01.06 # done... now set password 14.02.02 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.02.21 # uhm.... I think I'll keep the old one for now ;) 14.05.46 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/developer/desowin) 14.06.33 Quit barrywardell () 14.06.42 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) 14.06.48 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 14.12.04 Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A640B.dip.t-dialin.net) 14.13.31 # argh, what do i have to pay for a graphics card driver that actually works :/ 14.14.03 # since when do you get charged for card drivers? 14.14.50 # use windows? *ducks* 14.15.19 # * jhMikeS never has been charged for windows drivers 14.15.45 # I was responding to preglow.... 14.16.22 # pay money for linux drivers? 14.17.11 # * petur gives up 14.17.18 # beh, whatever...I'm just hitting a snag on something so I'll sit here bs-ing 14.17.26 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 14.17.48 # still early morning? 14.17.59 # that's redundant :) 14.18.33 # morning = early = semi-functional 14.18.57 # know the feeling ;) 14.19.26 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.19.26 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 14.19.28 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.20.40 # jhMikeS, you need caffeine! 14.20.50 # jhMikeS: haha, no, but it feels like i would be willing to pay for it 14.21.24 # * jhMikeS thinks about why "if" became the preferred keyword in stead of "when" as in "when (a == 1)". :p 14.21.48 # * jhMikeS has been hitting the caffeine but it takes until noon to kick in 14.27.31 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) 14.31.48 # jhMikeS: well, perl has "unless (a == 1)" :> 14.32.40 # * jhMikeS do { consume_caffeine(); } while (it_is_so_damn_early); 14.34.29 Join TTThomas [0] (n=tblackwe@c-68-38-172-205.hsd1.de.comcast.net) 14.36.23 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) 14.36.43 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 14.42.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.47.38 # * linuxstb is reminded of http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~omri/Humor/verbose-c.html 14.59.02 Join Jag86 [0] (i=Raziel@host57-216-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 15.01.26 Quit Jag86 (Client Quit) 15.04.52 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) 15.05.30 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 15.06.52 # you guys have the mod.codec download page? 15.07.32 # nope 15.08.12 # damn 15.08.49 # DarkStylist: you still only have the same options as linuxstb gave you yesterday: 1) compiler rockbox yourself with the MOD patch 2) look in the forum if there is a 'unsupported' build with the MOD patch 15.09.07 # compiler -> compile 15.09.31 # jhMikeS: hrmph, looks like we still have clicking problems 15.19.23 # a friend has 1 at home cutomly made for sansa build (official) 15.19.38 Join Daolan [0] (n=neo-ryan@dslb-084-062-040-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) 15.19.56 # preglow: from whence? 15.20.07 # jhMikeS: ml 15.20.14 # looks like i have 2 wait 4 him 15.20.17 # jhMikeS: now in talk file clips 15.20.47 # I saw a thing about .talk's getting truncated but that seems it's probably pcmbuffer related 15.22.23 # besides, how would a .talk clip click if it's just one atomic stream? 15.23.10 # DarkStylist: are you saying you've searched the unsupported builds forum and haven't found one which includes the patch you want ? 15.23.50 # jhMikeS: i mailed and asked him to confirm it's click-free from the encoder with rbspeexdec now 15.25.08 # put up a request for anyone to post the particular clips somewhere. I need to be able to actually experience and analize the m 15.25.41 # * preglow visualizes someone analizing voice clips 15.26.23 # * jhMikeS reminds preglow it's still AM hours here 15.27.10 # sure, doesn't make the prospect any less amusing :P 15.27.16 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.27.20 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 15.28.38 # * jhMikeS gets confused nowadays between Brit and US spelling and ends up typing neither. 15.34.41 Join TMM [0] (n=hp@ip5650d1ab.direct-adsl.nl) 15.41.39 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 15.42.15 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F73A.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.47.29 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.48.51 Join kubiix [0] (n=Miranda@adsl-pha21-156-158-212.bluetone.cz) 15.48.52 Quit kubiix (Client Quit) 15.50.51 Quit rp- ("leaving") 15.51.12 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.21.194) 15.53.48 Join Siku [0] (i=Siku@e81-197-68-206.elisa-laajakaista.fi) 15.58.21 Part LinusN 15.59.27 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 16.00.55 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") 16.06.36 Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!") 16.07.05 Join scorche|w [0] (n=42c007b2@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 16.08.46 # i never found one for sansa with the mod patch sorry 16.08.57 # "I recently installed rockbox in less then 5 hours and it was very easy and nothing went wrong." :) 16.09.15 # i do hope he means minutes 16.09.24 # I hope so too 16.09.41 # although 5 minutes is also less than 5 hours of course :) 16.09.42 # and that includes compiling ;-) 16.10.34 # ? 16.10.48 # I mean, rockboxing my sansa took my less than 5 minutes including compiling rockbox 16.11.00 # I wonder about that quote though 16.11.19 # amiconn: was reading some old forum post http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13962.msg104608#msg104608 16.12.45 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 16.15.38 # rockboxing my sansa was a few minutes too 16.15.47 # used the graphical installer :) 16.17.19 # i must confess mp3's on sansa firmware sucks compared to rockbox the sound can be much better configurated with rockbox 16.19.21 # desowin: Compiling for sansa (+make zip) would take ~12 minutes for me.. 16.23.22 # thx for all help guys see ya 16.23.28 Part DarkStylist 16.32.25 Join Arathis2 [0] (n=doerk@p508A3C81.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.36.21 Join Crash91 [0] (n=evil91@41.232.212.187) 16.37.10 Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) 16.42.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.45.17 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.50.00 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.50.03 Join HowdyDoody [0] (n=Administ@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 16.50.11 Quit InHisName (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17.00.44 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection) 17.02.17 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp70-154.adsl.forthnet.gr) 17.02.54 Join Jon-Kha [0] (i=jon-kha@80-248-247-190.cust.suomicom.fi) 17.03.13 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat") 17.05.05 Join kubiix [0] (n=Miranda@adsl-pha21-156-158-212.bluetone.cz) 17.10.49 Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-024-163-032-204.nc.res.rr.com) 17.11.11 Nick j0tt is now known as jott (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) 17.18.02 Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 17.21.03 Quit goffa_ (Remote closed the connection) 17.21.26 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 17.26.22 Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-11-6.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) 17.30.04 Quit Crash91 ("Bye Bye!") 17.31.51 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.32.29 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@dhcp75-126.njit.edu) 17.41.05 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Administ@ip565fbeaa.direct-adsl.nl) 17.42.32 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 17.47.12 # anyone know who deleted the ipod classic thread from new ports ? 17.47.15 # Soap: don't you mean the other Dominik...? ;) 17.47.47 # pixelma, should I? Bluebrother asked me to ask Domonoky... 17.48.07 Nick Arathis2 is now known as Arathis (n=doerk@p508A3C81.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.48.35 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) 17.48.40 # sorry, didn't know that 17.49.32 # is the other dominik in the area as well? 17.49.40 # * Soap looks at the google map 17.50.04 # you're all the way up in Berlin, right? 17.50.19 # yes (almost) 17.50.25 # Soap: dominik is bluebrother 17.50.46 # duh - got confused for a minute. 17.50.52 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98216b42@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-233f32565ad4fe39) 17.54.07 Quit kugel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.54.15 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.54.18 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 17.54.55 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@dhcp75-126.njit.edu) 17.56.18 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 18.00.56 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) 18.05.25 Part pondlife ("Gone") 18.07.00 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 18.11.53 Join lazka [0] (n=lazka@84.119.31.204) 18.14.06 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) 18.14.09 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp260-88.adsl.forthnet.gr) 18.16.24 Join TMM [0] (n=hp@c5147518c.cable.wanadoo.nl) 18.19.24 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 18.19.57 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) 18.19.58 Join XavierGr_ [0] (n=xavier@ppp163-117.adsl.forthnet.gr) 18.20.10 Nick XavierGr_ is now known as XavierGr (n=xavier@ppp163-117.adsl.forthnet.gr) 18.21.12 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.26.19 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m236.net81-66-159.noos.fr) 18.26.19 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18.26.45 Quit petur ("work->home") 18.28.02 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) 18.28.07 # jhMikeS: could you add some enlightening comment in #8270 and close it if you're convinced you know it's not a bug? 18.29.38 Join rlpowell [0] (n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org) 18.29.40 # * jhMikeS tends to think he's sheds dark on the subject 18.29.54 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) 18.31.08 Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) 18.31.13 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.31.38 # Can anyone suggest a good choice to run rockbox on with a minimum of 8GiB? My ipod 4G just died. :( 18.32.54 # You can buy an 8GB Sansa E280, which also accepts Micro(HC)SD cards for memory expansion. 18.33.12 # This page has some useful info - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide 18.33.19 # I read a review that said that USB syncing wasn't working on the E280. 18.33.38 # It's the same as the ipod - you need to reboot to the original firmware. 18.33.39 # So you had to load the original firmware to put any music on it, but the original firmware doesn't accept m3u playlists. 18.33.43 # Ummm. 18.34.02 # I didn't have to do any such thing on my ipod. 18.34.11 # Yes you did, you just didn't know it... 18.34.18 # Umm. OK. 18.34.27 # Rockbox automatically rebooted to the original firmware's "emergency disk mode" for you. 18.34.40 # Ah. 18.35.17 # But the Sansa appears as a normal external drive (i.e. UMS), so you can copy any files to it, including m3u playlists. 18.35.40 # It doesn't matter that the original firmware can't read them (which the ipod's OF couldn't either). 18.36.03 # http://www.amazon.com/review/R1V6G1ZRQJS92/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm -- that's the review I'm talking about. 18.36.21 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p549674EE.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.36.28 # Where he says he has to do all his syncing with Windows Media Player, and he has to run a plugin to convert the playlists back to m3u to use them in rockbox. 18.37.04 # Presumably MSC mode solves that problem, but: When the Sansa is in MSC mode, it takes literally 5-10 minutes to boot while it catalogs its content 18.37.15 # (and he's not the only one who makes that long boot time complaint) 18.37.29 # I never see it... 18.37.52 # preglow: I added some enlightenment. I can't say whether there's a bug for Nano however. 18.37.55 # Either because the bootloader stops it, or it never boots longer than to the language selection screen. 18.38.09 # substitute seconds for minutes, rlpowell 18.38.10 # Lear: You have an e280 in MSC mode, and it boots fairly quickly? How much space are you using up? 18.38.28 Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@249-022-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) 18.38.49 # Well, there's some 150 MB free or so. Most of it in Vorbis though. 18.39.09 # Ah. I suppose it can't inventory those. :) 18.39.52 # rlpowell: The Rockbox bootloader disables the OF's database refresh 18.39.57 # There are some MP3:s too though. 18.40.13 # Thanks for alll your help, all. I think I'll go ahead and buy one of those then; it was my first choice until I read that review. 18.40.32 # rlpowell: Also, a native USB mode for Rockbox is under active development, so hopefully you won't even need to reboot soon. 18.40.47 # linuxstb_: Huh. Sounds like that reviewer isn't using rockbox very well, since he apparently was avoiding MSC mode, so I'm not surprised. 18.41.00 # Yeah, saw that. How's that going? (the dev) 18.41.59 # I think it's close, but it's one of those things where the last 5% of the work takes 95% of the time... So it's hard to predict when it will be working. 18.42.30 # jhMikeS: so one really shouldn't be able to see any difference in black level with the ycbcr clipping? 18.42.47 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.43.52 # Great; thanks again for all your help. 18.43.56 # 16 = black and should convert to 0 in RGB space. anything below should clip 18.44.07 # yes, exactly 18.45.17 Part bughunter2 18.46.48 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Administ@ip565fbeaa.direct-adsl.nl) 18.46.55 Part bughunter2 18.48.42 # Oh, one more thing. Is the port at the bottom of the E280 the same as the one at the bottom of my 4G ipod? 18.48.57 # (I doubt it, but I've got a bluetooth adapter I'd love to keep using....) 18.50.00 # I wouldn't do that 18.50.23 # Wouldn't do which? 18.50.37 # if your Bluetooth adapter worked with Rockbox on your 4G iPod, I would be forever grateful if you would fill out the IpodAccessories wiki page. 18.51.07 # It *sort of* worked; I couldn't change channels, but the sound was fine. 18.51.18 # Hell, if it won't work with the sansa, I can just sell you the thing. 18.51.50 # "the IpodAccessories wiki page" == URL? 18.51.55 Join pondlife [0] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) 18.52.01 Part pondlife ("Gone") 18.52.02 # Oh, nevermind; found it. 18.53.00 Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 18.53.35 # * rlpowell goes to lookup what the device actually *was*. :) 18.54.14 # As an aside, I *HEART* my HT280 bluetooth headphones. 18.54.41 # TEN Technology naviPlay Bluetooth Stereo Adapter for iPod -- that was it; adding to the wiki now. 18.55.40 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]") 18.55.40 # Bug in your TWiki setup: hitting cancel at the login takes you to a page that says "{ScriptUrlPath}/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration" 18.56.04 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) 18.56.10 Quit linuxstb_ (Nick collision from services.) 18.57.49 Join Rincewind [0] (i=H0XIZkug@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) 18.58.25 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@dhcp75-126.njit.edu) 18.58.28 # Someone give RobinPowell write access, please. 18.58.40 # (otherwise I can't do what Soap told me to. :) 19.00.36 # rlpowell: Done 19.00.39 # 7 seconds too slow :) 19.00.39 # Thanks. 19.02.33 # isn't .aac an extension you see for aac? 19.05.25 Join roxfan [0] (n=dunno@171.222-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) 19.05.46 # Soap: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories -- last line. If such a thing is useful to you, I'd love to sell it. :D 19.06.57 # preglow: I think that normally means raw AAC (i.e. not in mp4) 19.07.15 # (I could be wrong though...) 19.07.20 Join mud-rb [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.222.100.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 19.07.28 # linuxstb: right 19.07.33 Join japc [0] (n=japc@194.65.5.235) 19.07.47 Join Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@f051066030.adsl.alicedsl.de) 19.09.34 # There aren't any rockbox-supported players with native bluetooth, are there? 19.09.57 # no 19.10.33 # Didn't think so; thanks. 19.11.12 # Rockbox is #1 on my requirements list, but I man can dream... :) 19.13.35 Join Suleeto [0] (n=jagrei@71.177.21.78) 19.13.43 # wow lots of people in here 19.14.15 Join linuxftw [0] (n=raul@71-223-154-181.phnx.qwest.net) 19.14.15 # anyonw awake? 19.14.36 # nope, all bots :) 19.14.41 # umm, does anyone know how to get linux on my ipod with rockbox working? 19.15.04 # i anailated my apple msofts -_- 19.15.10 # wow, i really had to read that nick twice 19.15.14 # * linuxstb too ;) 19.15.17 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) 19.15.30 # linuxftw: you might want to try #ipodlinux 19.15.43 # they alllll afk lol..... 19.15.53 Quit roxfan[zzz] (Connection timed out) 19.16.01 # linuxftw: then what makes you think we're interested in helping you to put linux on your ipod? 19.16.09 # -_- cuz ur nice? 19.16.15 # we're nice when it comes to rockbox 19.16.20 # we don't care too much about linux on the ipod 19.16.21 # well fine -_- 19.16.22 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@30-7-114.wireless.csail.mit.edu) 19.16.40 # i think most rockbox users just use rockbox, i doubt many people know exactly 19.17.11 Nick linuxftw is now known as rockboxftw (n=raul@71-223-154-181.phnx.qwest.net) 19.17.16 # D:? 19.17.22 # Welcome. 19.17.34 # that doesnt make ipodlinux on-topic here 19.17.37 # ok can i install rockbox with a dead ipod? 19.17.47 # define dead 19.17.49 # dead in what way? 19.17.53 # i reformatted it all D: 19.17.57 # No, the install tools require a working ipod - i.e. one that can boot into the original firmware. 19.18.09 # oh noes.. 19.18.11 # crap.. 19.18.15 # What desktop OS do you use? 19.18.23 # linux/windowsxp 19.18.34 # Then see here - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore 19.18.35 # you can try this though: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore 19.18.44 # haha 19.18.49 # creepy.. 19.18.57 # both u typed it at nearly same time 19.19.15 # not really...i typed it a while back, but CGI:IRC lags a decent bit 19.19.18 # down with ipodlinux ? 19.20.32 # i imagine there are also tools from apple to recover ipods, i really wouldn't know though 19.20.55 # brb need get on my windows pc 19.21.21 # mud-rb: i think they stopped distributing them outside of itunes 19.21.39 # scorche|w: oh really? that stinks 19.22.01 Join Redbreva [0] (n=Miranda@host86-144-108-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) 19.22.12 # Somebody else besides jabra *must* make 3.5mm jack bluetooth adapters... 19.25.16 Join Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 19.29.29 Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) 19.32.33 # linuxstb: do you know if we've tried using low-power sbr mode in faad? 19.34.49 Quit bertrik ("bye") 19.36.39 # according to some sources, low power sbr mode should be about equal in complexity to lc aac at the equivalent sample rate 19.37.47 # according to some sources we never landed on the moon 19.38.20 # bull 19.38.29 # i surely never have 19.38.42 # Are you sure? 19.39.04 # Because I may have compromising photographs of you on the moon. 19.39.15 # And your denial will only make things worse. 19.39.20 Part rockboxftw 19.40.17 # well, i thought i never had... 19.40.21 # but now that i think about it 19.40.26 # yeah, i distinctly remember landing on the moon 19.41.32 # * Domonoky also wants those drugs, preglow must have taken.. :-) 19.41.47 # * preglow strokes his 500 sheet stack of lsd 19.42.42 # 500?...jees.. 19.42.44 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19.42.59 Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@rockbox/developer/austriancoder) 19.43.41 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.46.22 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@dhcp77-17.njit.edu) 19.46.44 Join pondlife [0] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) 19.46.52 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) 19.49.20 # scorche|w: btw, is it easy to reset a gigabeat s? :> 19.49.42 Quit japc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.51.09 # as in power on/off reset, or resetting of the firmware? 19.51.56 # as in resetting it when i've made it hang 19.52.04 # hey do you guys know why the rockbox code won't work on sigmatel chips yet? any word on development there 19.52.15 # Suleeto: no development whatsoever 19.52.31 # scorche|w: i just had to go hunting for a paperclip for my h120 and remembered hard reseting something is essential functionality for me :) 19.52.34 # preglow: there is a small "battery switch" at the bottom 19.52.37 # is it that the sigmatel chip is too new? 19.52.52 # Suleeto: just that no one has done it.. 19.53.25 # if I understand correctly, all the newer Sansas use that... I know that Clip and Express do 19.53.44 # Suleeto: all newer sansas use an austramicrosystems chip 19.53.46 # no sigmatel 19.53.51 # ditto clip 19.54.16 # Suleeto: they use http://www.austriamicrosystems.com/03products/products_detail/AS3525/description_AS3525.htm 19.54.24 # * Suleeto mutters to himself... *why did I think it was sigmatel...* 19.54.42 # and development on that front is on its way 19.55.27 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 19.55.35 # so i have a question: what exactly is "iram"? 19.55.36 Join Xerion [0] (n=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl) 19.56.17 # mud-rb: fast sram that is internal to a chip 19.56.59 # preglow: ah, thanks. i assumed it was something like that. do all of the players have it? 19.57.00 Quit Xerion (Client Quit) 19.57.12 # mud-rb: most do, but not all in such quantities that we can use it the same way 19.57.37 # mud-rb: where we have enough of it, we allocate it for all performance sensitive areas, where we don't have enough of it, we just use it for low-level stuff for such a thing is needed 19.57.51 # like in bootloaders 19.57.58 # currently, i think only gigabeat f doesn't have much iram 19.58.05 # can plugins generally steal it if it's not being used for playback? 19.58.07 # and the original archoses 19.58.12 # mud-rb: sure 19.58.31 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) 19.58.44 # haha i don't know how you guys don't go nuts getting rockbox to work on all of these players..."normal" architecture differences are bad enough 19.59.51 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 20.00.08 # already nuts 20.00.17 # what he said 20.00.26 # preglow: Do you know how/if the low-power mode affects quality? (And no, I haven't tried it. Didn't know much about it.) 20.00.32 # Lear: it does, yes 20.00.34 # preglow, the information on anythingbutipod says it's sigmatel: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17236 20.00.46 # Lear: but also significantly lowers computational power requirements 20.00.46 Part austriancoder ("Konversation terminated!") 20.01.00 # Lear: it's an official part of the aac sbr spec 20.01.21 # Suleeto: that is the express though.. 20.01.43 # preglow: I think I've been told the Gigabeat has as much iram as the Archoses (or some Archos). 20.01.54 # Which is, like, 4k? 20.01.55 # Llorean: and that is true 20.01.59 # Llorean: something in that ballpark 20.02.14 Quit goffa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.02.16 # Lear: i'll test it as soon as i get my synced faad up and going, which i'm working on now 20.02.19 # i had thought express was newer.. has it been out for awhile? 20.02.23 Join webguest30 [0] (i=185da6ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-46b317f7082f9cd2) 20.02.52 # i interpret "newer sansas" to mean the recent version 2 20.02.58 # those guys seem to think that it can be ported, the biggest benefit being SDHC chips 20.03.08 # ahhhh and express is not v2 then i take it 20.03.39 # Yeah, the "newer sansas" tend to mean "the v2 editions of the hardware we support, and their close brothers the m200 and clip" 20.04.19 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host202-206-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 20.04.49 # and nobody has an interest in porting to an express then 20.05.02 # i lack the knowhow or i would do it myself 20.05.25 # Suleeto: Your best bet is to encourage enthusiasm on an owners forum 20.05.27 # i havent seen anyone come forward with the willingness and the capability step forward to do the port, no 20.07.05 # bigbambi: there is an active thread on this with the earliest post dated in July and the most recent as of this last Sunday. 20.07.29 # I am unclear myself as to what is involved in doing a port 20.07.47 # Suleeto: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPorts 20.07.55 # http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort even 20.07.58 # strike an s 20.08.40 # Suleeto: Sure, but what is there is the extent of the effort here. If that needs more people, you need to atract them from elsewhere 20.09.10 # i dont understand 20.09.23 Join Robin0800 [0] (n=Robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust498.brig.cable.ntl.com) 20.09.32 # you're going to need help, and if rockbox devs don't care about your platform, you're going to have to try to get other people to 20.09.45 # Suleeto: it's quite simple: nobody here has an express 20.10.11 # Suleeto: Ports are made by owners, no-one here has one, so you ned to get more owners with the requisite skills interested 20.10.26 Join Robin_Watts [0] (n=Javacat@91.84.89.194) 20.10.47 # Evening all 20.10.57 # Was wondering if preglow was about? 20.11.22 # ahhhhhh 20.11.33 # i am reading the link, at the very least I can obtain more info 20.11.47 # Suleeto: That is a good start 20.12.18 # Robin_Watts: well, he was a bit ago.. 20.12.39 # damn, this codec rapes the stack 20.12.52 # Aha. 20.12.58 # Voila! 20.13.11 # a wild preglow has appeared! 20.13.22 # preglow: I have an optimised version of your qmf_synth ARM code for the speex codec. 20.13.55 # Robin_Watts: ahh, it's you 20.14.07 # Robin_Watts: i've tried it, yes, and it actually decreased performance on my target :) 20.14.09 # I sent a copy to the speex dev list, but other than getting a message back saying that it was held for moderation, I haven't heard anything back (they are probably busy) 20.14.18 # * Robin_Watts boggles. 20.14.26 # What target? 20.14.28 # Robin_Watts: at least for one mode, heh 20.14.32 # Robin_Watts: arm7tdmi, ipod 20.14.40 # Robin_Watts: you seem to be on something arm9 or greater 20.14.46 # since you care about load dependencies 20.15.12 Part rlpowell 20.15.31 # The code is written so that it will benefit on things like SA and Xscale cos of the load dependencies, but I can't think of anything I did offhand that should have *slowed* it on any ARM... 20.16.26 # Robin_Watts: well, the order 8 case of iir_mem16, for example, you stack a register to be able to free one register for the interleaved loads 20.16.38 # Robin_Watts: the interleaved loads won't hurt arm7, but the extra stack operation will 20.17.02 # but I should have gained in that routine by using MLA instead of a MUL then a SUB... 20.17.12 # so overall I'd still expect to win. 20.17.14 # Robin_Watts: mla uses exactly as many cycles as one mul + one sub 20.17.30 # mla uses mul cycles + 1, sub uses one cycle 20.18.43 # Robin_Watts: but that should go in anyway... i feel kind of stupid for not seeing that 20.20.15 # * Robin_Watts boggles again... 20.20.31 # Robin_Watts: anyway, only the order 8 case of iir_mem16 was slower, and that by a small amount, but enough to make wb decoding slower than it already was, and i'm just pondering if i should care about it 20.22.23 # I'm surprised at your claim for MLA timings. 20.22.40 # why? i'm 99% certain it is correct 20.22.55 # I've been using ARMs for nigh on 20 years now (since the ARM2 first came out), and I've never twigged that. 20.24.04 # well, that's what the arm reference docs say, and it does seem to be confirmed by my performance figures 20.24.10 # I built an ARM in an FPGA as a uni project, and MLA is just to be a MUL where you preset the register that you repeatedly shift and add to a value, rather than 0. 20.25.24 # you're sure that what arm themselves do? 20.25.33 # No :) 20.25.47 # Which ARM ref docs please? 20.26.20 # (I don't distrust you. I'll just still reeling from having a long time preconception shattered) 20.26.33 # i'm looking for a ref as we speak 20.26.52 # http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0210c/Chdbedbg.html 20.27.42 # mla takes one cycle more than mul, and (s|u)mlal one cycle more than (s|u)mull on arm7tdmi 20.28.19 # Indeed. 20.28.22 Join JdGordon [0] (i=836b0065@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-79f54d62945f5930) 20.28.38 # On SA they are the same (according to the SA instruction timing note) 20.28.40 # hey all 20.29.05 # I guess I'd just assumed that previous ARMs were the same. 20.29.12 # Well, you learn something new every day! 20.29.15 # :) 20.29.16 # Even within the same architecture version, timing can be different 20.29.33 # amiconn: Yes, I appreciate that. 20.29.35 # arm920t and arm7tdmi are both armv4t, but have rather different timing 20.29.39 # moos: that doesn't look right too... 20.29.43 Quit JdGordon (Client Quit) 20.29.43 # Robin_Watts: but anyway, using mla means less code than mul + sub, so that's going in anyway 20.30.08 Join JdGordon [0] (i=836b0048@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-a7a2393c0baba733) 20.30.19 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら") 20.30.23 # It's a shame that that code clips to +/- 7fff. 20.30.36 # pixelma:sorry, just commited the right thing 20.30.47 # I can clip to the more usual +7fff, -8000 faster. 20.31.36 # Robin_Watts: yeah, i actually do clip to +7fff..-8000 in my coldfire version of this same code, though, in qmf_synth 20.31.39 # Robin_Watts: and it works fine 20.32.08 # preglow: The qmf_synth code should have been faster, regardless of processor though ? 20.32.26 # Robin_Watts: it was 20.33.54 # Robin_Watts: so feel free to optimize the clipping in qmf_synth to 7fff..-8000 if you want 20.35.16 # MVN r9,#&8000 MOV r5,r10,LSR #15 TEQ r5,r5,ASR#31 EORNE r10,r9,r5,ASR #31 20.35.45 # looks like the trick we use in dsp.c 20.35.49 # oops, ASR, not LSR. Clips r10 to 15 bits + sign. 20.37.21 # * Robin_Watts fails to find dsp.c 20.37.50 # if ((int16_t)sample != sample) 20.37.50 # sample = 0x7fff ^ (sample >> 31); 20.38.03 # it's in apps/ 20.38.17 # ah, right. 20.39.21 # well, that shaves off 5 cycles and is more compact 20.40.06 # * preglow prefers saturating integer arithmetic :/ 20.40.21 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20.41.54 # it applies in order_10 and order8 too ? 20.42.02 # preglow: Pah, that would be boring ;) 20.42.43 # Robin_Watts: those are called too far in the front of the signal chain, if there's a single sample negate happening after that on a -8000 value, things will blow up 20.42.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.42.56 # Robin_Watts: qmf_synth is at the very end of the signal chain 20.42.58 # fair enough. 20.43.35 # mov r9, #0x7f00 \n orr r9, r90, #0xff 20.43.38 # what the hell was i thinking 20.43.58 # You did have a @ This can be optimised further in there to cover yourself :) 20.44.12 # i haven't programmed arm for more than two years, sporadically, heh 20.44.23 # so i sometimes just ignore glaringly obvious stuff 20.44.30 # preglow: mvn r9, #0x8000 is not identical to that afaics 20.44.42 # it's not, nmo 20.44.43 # Using the MVN 0x8000 one would have mucked up the -ve test. 20.44.48 # This will set r9 to 0xffff7fff 20.45.06 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") 20.45.30 # yes, yes it will 20.45.42 Quit hcs ("Leaving.") 20.45.43 # too much coldfire for me 20.46.02 # * Robin_Watts hasn't ever used coldfire. 20.47.02 # it's nice, has fast multiply accumulate, saturating arithmetic, parallel loads, etc 20.47.11 # but otherwise looks very much like 68k 20.49.43 Quit ompaul (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20.51.28 # Robin_Watts: would there be a way to combine that clipping code with interleavign outputs into top/lower part of registers? i want to replace those four strh's with a stmia... 20.52.45 # Can't see how. 20.53.24 # And STMIAs may be slower on some later ARMs, I think. 20.53.41 # not on arm7 20.53.48 # you pretty much always win on arm7 if you use stm 20.53.50 # and ldm 20.54.15 # yes, but later ARMs you start to pay a penalty I think. 20.54.36 # Which always annoys me, as the multiple load/stores are lovely. 20.54.36 # 4 strh = 12 cycles, 2 element stmia = 4 cycles, afaik 20.54.48 # which is quite a boost... 20.55.14 # Robin_Watts: why would stm be slower, really? that just sounds silly 20.55.48 # On the SA they just internally decode LDMs and STMs to STRs. 20.55.53 # genious... 20.56.00 # Oh, it's worse than that. 20.56.00 Quit Nico_P (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.56.29 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-FIVE-FIFTEEN.MIT.EDU) 20.56.35 # If you do STMIA... they decode to n x STR... 20.56.52 # from what arm revision on? 20.56.54 # So it doesn't just take a single cycle if the condition code fails. 20.56.55 # that's bloody braindead 20.57.03 # That was in the SA. Blame Intel. 20.57.16 # oh, so arm's cores don't do that? 20.57.16 # I believe it's also like that in the Xscale, but I could be wrong. 20.57.26 # That should still not be slower than using n x str directly 20.57.29 # ARMs cores are probably better behaved. 20.57.37 # And it saves a few instructions 20.57.50 # I *think* there are cases where it is slower - but I can't recall them offhand. 20.58.41 # preglow: On arm9, using ldm/stm is also better, even if it does not directly save cycles 20.58.41 # maybe it's slower for single register STMs or double ones or something. 20.58.54 # amiconn: why? 20.59.02 # Using them makes it easier to avoid pipeline stall (at least for ldm) 20.59.06 # Robin_Watts: well, doing a single register stm isn't exactly clever 20.59.41 # And you save (n-1) instructions 20.59.46 # preglow: it's tempting to stack/unstack things using STMFD/LDMFD just cos it 'looks right'. 21.02.58 # * amiconn wonders what moos did in r15881 21.03.15 # The net difference between r15880 and r15882 is just 2 lines... 21.03.20 # If your figures are right... then doing MOV r0,r0,LSL #16 MOV r1,r1,LSL #16 ORR r0,r0,r1,LSR #16 to mix 2 regs would take 3 cycles. Do that again, and it's another 3. Then 4 for the store is still better than 12. 21.03.44 # Robin_Watts: indeed 21.04.36 # Robin_Watts: but that would be slower on arm9 and up 21.04.44 # Are your figures for cached or uncached stores? 21.04.56 # amiconn: yup sorry, commited the wrong file, I wanted just correct a little mistake made by the author of the patch. 21.04.57 # Robin_Watts: cached, 3, uncached, more :) 21.05.13 # perhaps we really should rename the current one to filters_arm7.S and make a filters_arm9.S 21.05.15 # That's why I enabled the arm asm optimisations for the ape filters for arm7 only... 21.05.17 # The write buffer should merge STRH's to successive addresses, I thought. 21.05.32 # but then again, this stuff doesn't just apply to arm9, bah 21.05.38 # sometimes arm do annoy 21.06.35 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) 21.08.30 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 21.10.19 # * preglow has working aac again 21.12.20 # Lear: i get compiler errors when i compile in low power sbr... 21.13.13 Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.13.30 # thanks to some asm, it seems 21.13.36 Join pradin [0] (n=pradin@vpnwl-228-42.net.rpi.edu) 21.15.44 # I'm currently working on a modification for the text_editor? I have it tested under the UISimulator but I'd like to see it running on my Sansa e200. What are the steps necessary to move a custom firmware build to the Sansa? Perhaps there is a wiki page already describe this procedure? 21.16.20 # (Interesting. Looks like the ARM7 didn't have different timings for MUL and MLA. Only the 7M.) 21.17.07 # Lear: haha, it even uses a macro/function not included in the source :) 21.17.28 # SBR_SQRT_Q2() 21.18.10 Quit Rincewind ("bye") 21.19.09 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F73A.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.19.29 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 21.24.55 Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@249-022-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) 21.29.20 # does the sansa e200 actually have an RTC backup battery? 21.30.25 Quit stewball`ghost (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.30.41 # preglow: Mentioned on hydrogenaudio 2.5 years ago. :) 21.30.42 # bertrik: The easiest way to find out would be to set the RTC, unplug the main battery, and see what happens. ;) 21.30.52 # Lear: yeah... i just mailed the faad guy 21.30.52 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21.30.59 Join entropic [0] (n=grey@mal2.stopavoiding.us) 21.31.04 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@dhcp77-17.njit.edu) 21.31.10 # Llorean: yeah, but maybe there's a supercap somewhere too 21.31.19 # Lear: anyway, there's still a gcc bug going on 21.31.22 # so i can't test 21.31.29 # perhaps it's gone with newer gccs 21.31.45 # I wonder because during charge, the BVDD value seems too high, while the RTCSUP value seems about right 21.31.58 # Lear: 40% realtime sbr in full mode... 21.32.00 # for h120 21.32.03 # woopee 21.32.50 # Yep, disabling SBR/PS on non-gigabeats does make some sense... 21.34.27 # 137% for a 128kbps, not exactly impressive 21.34.29 # oh silliness.... 21.34.49 # Looks like the cf ape predictor can be optimised further 21.35.52 Quit TTThomas ("Lost terminal") 21.38.18 Part Daolan 21.38.38 Join Daolan [0] (n=neo-ryan@dslb-084-062-040-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) 21.38.41 Quit linuxstb_ ("Leaving") 21.39.29 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 21.41.50 # preglow: That's on coldfire? Seems a little bit slower than what's in svn. 21.42.01 # Lear: that's on coldfire 21.43.17 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat") 21.47.59 Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 21.48.45 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 21.48.53 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 21.48.58 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.49.04 # Lear: yeah, it does seem slightly slower, i wonder if i've removed some iram or something 21.49.41 # uses 35kb as it is 21.50.11 # almost all of it in windows and mdct stuff 21.50.43 # I tested a 170 kbps file a while ago, and got ~140%. 21.50.52 # testing svn for the same file now 21.50.56 # 152% realtime 21.50.57 Part pradin 21.51.12 # still not very far from useless 21.51.14 # * preglow kicks faad 21.52.56 # Does faad support a lot more profiles than the other decoders (namely the helix one)? 21.53.31 # yes 21.53.42 # but that's rather a moot point 21.53.47 # even the main profile never sees use 21.53.49 # I think it does more, but only PS is really interesting (and what we have enabled in Rockbox). 21.53.55 # and when i say never, i mean it, i've never seen a main profile file 21.54.00 # and they're all disabled in rockbox right now 21.54.05 # Lear: and sbr 21.54.18 # I'm just wonderign if a "faad lite" library would be easier to optimise - i.e. delete everything we don't want. 21.54.19 # Yes, but Helix does SBR, doesn't it? 21.54.33 # linuxstb: i don't think so, i think faad's memory usage is fundamentally broken 21.54.36 # but i might be wrong 21.54.38 # Lear: yup 21.54.42 # but helix has that license thing 21.54.46 # I know. 21.55.00 # i'd love to use helix 21.55.20 # I'm still not sure exactly what the issue is with the helix license... 21.56.05 Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC") 21.56.10 # i sure as hell don't know 21.56.18 # would love to find out we don't need to worry about it... 21.56.33 Quit desowin ("use linux") 21.56.37 # linuxstb: it requires that derivative works be licensed under the terms of the RPSL, and mandates that any litigation take place in Seattle, Washington. 21.56.47 # i love that last part 21.57.03 # yeah, it's a gem 21.59.05 # Hm, from license page at helixcommunity.org: "Under the terms of the GPL, RPSL or the RCSL, you may license the Helix DNA for either Research & Development Use and/or Commercial Use". Don't really know what to make out of it yet... 21.59.15 # Zagor: It also talks about software modules developed independently of the Real source code being distributable under a "compatible license". So that's not good enough? 21.59.26 # well, the client is under the GPL...it is just the server 21.59.41 # Lear: If that means exactly what it says, you can license Helix under the GPL for Commercial use. 22.00.06 # linuxstb: doesn't that still mean the helix code must be RPSL? 22.00.21 # But not non-commercial? Sounds odd... 22.00.22 # Zagor: Yes, but doesn't that happen already, with for example BSD code we use? 22.00.35 # the difference is that bsd is gpl compatible 22.00.44 # i assume we are just talking about the server code? 22.00.55 Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) 22.01.53 # scorche|w: We're talking codecs, which are under the RPSL or RCSL IIRC. 22.01.56 # Lear: Do they define what they mean by "Research & Development Use" because I'd certainly say Rockbox is at least "Development use" ;) 22.02.46 # * preglow gets his hopes up 22.02.57 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC") 22.03.13 Join scorche|w [0] (n=42c007b2@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 22.03.52 # Lear: What page are you reading? The AAC codec license info is here - https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/2005/aacfixptdec 22.04.03 # linuxstb: ah...i was thinking that was under the client's licent for some odd reason... 22.04.08 # Lear: But it looks like that's just a list of what their licenses are, meaning "They may be one, all, or any combination of these, you have to look to see which" 22.06.26 # linuxstb: On the licensing page, linked from helixcommunity.org. 22.08.07 # what about this: https://helixcommunity.org/content/complicense ? 22.08.10 # i'm tempted to just go ahead and make it into a rockbox codec and just not redistribute it, just to see how efficient it is 22.08.25 Join przemhb [0] (n=przemhb@fan115.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 22.08.35 # preglow: you can distribute the patch that makes it into one ;-) 22.08.36 # hi 22.08.45 # Bagder: heh, true 22.08.49 Join rockboxftw [0] (n=raul@71-223-148-25.phnx.qwest.net) 22.08.56 # * Bagder recalls how lame started... 22.08.58 # Lear: IIUC, the "DNA components" don't include the codecs. 22.09.08 # how can i get the bootloader on rockbox? 22.09.26 # copy it to the drive 22.09.29 # Nico_P: Basically that says "You can attach GPL code to RPSL code, but you can't attach RPSL code to GPL code, because you can't change the license on the RPSL code to the GPL" 22.09.31 # rockboxftw: By following the install instructions in the manual. 22.09.48 # Llorean: ah ok. doesn't that settle the question? 22.09.51 # i'm looking at a completley diff loader.. 22.09.58 # oh, sweet lord, it just requires 30kb ram for decoding lc 22.10.09 # preglow: Stop looking.... ;) 22.10.12 # dd if=loaderthatyoumade of=/dev/sda 22.10.20 # Nico_P: If it's RPSL I'd say it pretty clearly answers it, yeah. 22.10.20 # Nico_P: see the footnote on that page 22.10.30 # rlpowell (if you read the logs) thank you very much for filling out IpodAccessories 22.10.31 # "Any attempt to apply non RPSL license terms, including without limitation the GPL, to Covered Code is expressly forbidden." 22.10.43 # Zagor: that doesn't mean much to me 22.11.23 # but Llorean made it clearer :) 22.11.23 # Zagor: But does the GPL force all code to be GPL'd? 22.11.30 # no 22.11.40 # just not impose any further restrictions 22.11.46 # which I believe the RPSL does 22.12.02 # rockboxftw: the rockbox bootloader is the only one supported here 22.12.06 # could someone take a look on polish language file patch? it is very simple patch - it fixes translation of a LANG_ALARM_WAKEUP_SCREEN 22.13.03 # james01: All that will do is trash the partition table... 22.13.11 Quit petur ("switching") 22.13.21 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 22.14.04 # FS#8205 22.14.09 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 22.14.11 # I don't suppose anyone has jtag on a pp target? 22.14.33 # I think barrywardell? 22.14.42 Part webguest30 22.14.46 # Zagor: the sansa devboard? 22.14.48 # And isn't there a Sansa dev board somewhere? 22.15.09 # linuxstb: he have for H10 no? 22.15.09 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") 22.15.28 # moos: I think so, yes. 22.15.49 # linuxstb: i think it is gathering dust in some corner of Bagder's desk ;) 22.15.52 # Zagor: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200-devboard.html ... 22.15.59 # lots of dust on that... 22.16.00 # then its sda1 or somethin 22.16.02 # high time that gets used 22.16.04 # linuxstb, preglow: http://lists.helixcommunity.org/pipermail/open-licensing/2005-March.txt the mail from robla at real.com is interesting 22.16.06 # I dunno read the manual 22.16.33 # Bagder: I might find use for that 22.16.36 # does the ipodpatcher bootloader work for rockbox? 22.16.57 # Zagor: you're welcome to play with it as much as you like! 22.17.22 Join TMM [0] (n=hp@ip565b35da.direct-adsl.nl) 22.17.30 # rockboxftw: our version includes the rockbox bootloader 22.17.40 # Zagor: please do :) 22.17.57 # maybe we could send a mail to real 22.18.05 # I get a nasty freeze when enabling DEBUG on target builds. 22.18.16 # rlly... how do i access it 22.18.16 # during boot, before the logo 22.18.39 # james01: It's strongly suggested that you not tell people to do things unless you're sure they're the right thing to do... Especially when they're directions like the one you gave that would corrupt the iPod. 22.19.14 # rockboxftw: See the manual install instructions in the manual, and they tell how to use iPodpatcher to install the Rockbox bootloader. It's our tool, after all. 22.19.18 # is there a key combo for it? 22.19.20 # not like its terribly hard to fix 22.19.38 # rockboxftw: Key combo for what? Ipodpatcher is a program you run on the computer to install a bootloader... 22.19.52 # Nico_P: nothing to lost in trying... 22.19.52 # isnt there a site that hosts all the untouched mbr's 22.20.12 # i know, i'm talking about the boot menu 22.20.30 # rockboxftw: The Rockbox bootloader doesn't have a boot menu. If you want help with some other bootloader, ask whoever is providing it. 22.20.44 # if we do mail real, which I think we should, we should write directly to Rob Lanphier. He seems to be the open source guy 22.20.44 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.20.58 # Bagder: isn't that the thing on top of teh Tower? :) 22.21.11 # james01: Which of course is perfectly easy for someone who doesn't know the dd method of installing a bootloader to do. Please, just don't tell people to do stuff unless you check it out first. 22.21.16 # oh crap he doesn't seem to work at real anymore 22.21.17 # the crown jewel! 22.21.19 # :-) 22.22.36 # an angel on top of the christmas fir (that's the period :) 22.23.17 # a device that has been screaming out to be used 22.23.38 # linuxstb: stripping away unneeded parts from faad shouldn't be too hard, though, but would of course not make syncing any easier 22.24.26 # is it possible to make rockbox only play music 22.24.35 # and get rid of all the extras other then the "database" 22.24.50 # rockboxftw: Why? 22.24.59 # my sansa e200 22.25.02 # screen broken 22.25.05 # can't see anyting 22.25.13 # would be nice to hit middle a few times and play musix 22.25.18 # Use the spoken interface to get things set up. 22.25.37 # And the "Play" button resumes playback, so once you have a playlist of all music it's rather easy to just use auto-resume when you turn on, or just tap play 22.25.42 # All of which is described in the manual 22.26.21 # ok, thanks do all the mp3players u guys support have same interface? 22.26.42 # depends what you mean by "interface" 22.26.48 # Rockbox has a fundamentally identical interface on each of them, visually speaking. The controls are always a bit different because there's variation of hardware 22.26.50 # rockbox interface.. 22.27.02 # ok cool thnx 22.31.40 # Bagder, preglow, linuxstb: licensing@helixcommunity.org is the address for licensing questions... I'd send them one if I knew what to say 22.32.10 # have good day everyone and thanks for standing my newbie ness.. 22.32.20 # when comes to ipod mod or moding crap i suck.. 22.32.56 Part rockboxftw 22.36.03 Quit Siku () 22.39.02 # Nico_P: maybe let's one of the trium vira people made it ? 22.39.47 # I mean swedishes of course ;) 22.41.17 # what do we want to know? "hi can you please change your license?" 22.41.37 # hehe :) 22.41.57 # clarifications at least, no? 22.42.12 # clarification of what? 22.42.16 # Zagor: most of what I read seems to indicate they are pretty open to the GPL, but that AAC has patent issues in the US. Maybe they'd be willing to let us use the decoder under the GPL as rockbox is based in sweden 22.42.24 # I think it's worth trying 22.42.46 # Nico_P: nothing to lost indeed 22.42.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.43.14 # if they let us license it under GPL the cat will be out of the bag, and then everyone in the world will get it under gpl. they know that full well. 22.43.36 # that's true, open gate 22.43.50 # maybe they don't mind. asking for at least clarifications can't hurt 22.44.06 # most of the helix code seems to be available under the GPL 22.44.20 # asking for dual licensing is the only thing that makes sense in my mind 22.44.21 # Maybe ask them something like "We have a GPL licensed program linked to various audio codecs, all of which so far are GPL license. We can't see any legal way to include RPSL licensed codecs, but at the same time acknowledge that your AAC decoder is probably the most suited to our needs, and were wondering if there was a known solution to this problem? 22.47.20 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan) 22.47.25 # Llorean: sure, go ahead. your english is better than mine. 22.47.33 # What's the email address? 22.47.46 # Bagder, preglow, linuxstb: licensing@helixcommunity.org is the address for licensing questions... I'd send them one if I knew what to say 22.47.47 # licensing@blah.org? 22.47.49 # Okay 22.48.05 # me realises he just highlighted 4 people =/ 22.48.54 # Llorean: Not all our codecs are GPL'd though - some are LGPL, some BSD... 22.50.07 # linuxstb: I've changed it to "licensed in a manner compatible with our GPL code"? 22.50.44 # http://pastebin.ca/806739 look good? 22.50.51 # Llorean: I think the main point is that Rockbox itself is GPL'd and we don't consider codecs as separate entities, they're closely linked to the core. 22.51.52 # Maybe changed "linked to various audio codecs" to "with various audio codecs compiled into it"? 22.52.04 # Llorean: I think that email is fine as is. 22.52.19 # Alright then. 22.52.28 # I'll send it on, and hope they get back to us. 22.52.50 # You could give the Rockbox URL though. 22.53.01 # I just added that in. :) 22.53.07 # I was thinking the same thing 22.53.37 # She's off 22.53.52 # God bless all who sail in her 22.54.05 # cool :) 22.54.56 # Bagder: what is REALBIN in apps/Makefile? the comment "this is not needed to get built when doing debug builds" looks worrying 22.55.13 # yet I do get a mi4 built 22.56.29 # is there a function in the plugin api to get the current position of the playing audio file ? 22.57.20 # Domonoky: audio_current_track()->elapsed 22.57.33 # Zagor: I can't see why a debug build would build an mi4... 22.57.44 # Nico_P: nice, thanxs.. 22.57.46 # with that makefile code I mean 22.58.39 # Bagder: well, it does 22.59.07 # maybe because I run "make bin" explicitly? 22.59.29 # ah yes 22.59.44 # that builds the BINARY explicitly 23.01.44 # could something else in the makefile be to blame for my failing DEBUG target build? 23.02.09 # I'm trying to activate DEBUGF over usb 23.02.33 # I don't think I've ever tried a DEBUG build... 23.02.47 # * ender` yawns 23.02.54 Join mud-rb_ [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.9.60.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 23.03.00 # no they're quite tightly coupled to the sim. I've had to change a couple of source files just to make it compile. 23.03.10 Part przemhb 23.04.40 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.04.41 # ender`: you know...all i ever see you do is yawn... 23.04.54 # well, that's what i do most of the time :) 23.05.09 # * Nico_P thought ender` might be a bot 23.05.24 # * ender` 'd like to see a yawning bot :) 23.05.56 # * Llorean goes to whip up yawnbot 0.1 23.06.29 # i was thinking seriously about making a borkborkbot at one point in time for this channel 23.06.43 # that reminds me, i did write a yawnbot to replace me on a DC hub a few years ago when i went skiing for a week 23.08.56 Quit bertrik ("bye") 23.09.44 # * preglow wonders if he should commit synced libfaad 23.11.21 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 23.12.32 # preglow: Why wouldn't you? 23.13.15 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.13.24 # what it STUBOFFSET used for? 23.13.25 # is 23.13.35 # gdb stub? 23.13.59 # sounds like a fair guess 23.14.12 # Don't ask me any follow-up questions though... ;) 23.14.14 # ah, that could really cause confusion 23.14.24 # a gdb stub will be a nice addition for you Zagor ;-) 23.14.38 # tomorrow :-P 23.14.51 # * Bagder looks to the sky and dreams of gdbing on target... 23.14.51 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 23.15.06 Join BRi7Xtra [0] (n=bri7x@c-24-127-157-38.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 23.15.34 # those were the days 23.15.51 # ah, yeah that was the problem. now it boots nicely. 23.16.22 # Zagor: What are you working on? 23.16.29 # hey folks, anyone familiar with the gigabeat f port of rockbox? i have these headphones with a faulty connector (and also, the gigabeat jack is quite faulty at this moment as well)... basically what's happening is every time it jiggles, the song pauses.. .i'm aware of the pause on headphone unplug feature, and i've turned it completely off, but for some reason it's still doing it... any ideas? 23.16.32 # linuxstb: debugf over usb 23.16.38 # what's required for on target gdb? serial communication? 23.17.10 # Nico_P: yes 23.17.37 # isn't that (almost?) working in the usb stack? 23.17.54 # lookie lookie 23.18.06 # flush_fat() 23.18.10 # Sectors written: 1 23.18.18 # linuxstb: good question, i think i'll just kill some warnings, then 23.18.19 # oooh 23.18.22 # some string cutoffs though 23.18.49 # linuxstb: and btw, i think the better approach is to go as far with keeping the code unaltered as we can, even to the effect of disabling warnings in gcc 23.19.03 # linuxstb: but i don't think that's the way we've usually done it 23.19.27 # i see there are a ton of int -> uint changes in our svn faad which i haven't applied yet 23.19.36 # Nico_P: doing it over usb is a chicken and egg problem. you'd need the target running before you can start it from gdb :) 23.19.56 # preglow: Have you noticed any useful improvements? 23.19.56 # ah 23.20.21 # linuxstb: well, it's a wee bit faster, but that might just be my optimizations 23.20.36 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") 23.21.26 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in) 23.21.39 # linuxstb: apart from that i don't really have much experience with aac, and not many test files 23.24.15 Quit mud-rb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.24.49 # preglow: If I had the time and nothing else to do, I would be tempted to use libfaad as the basis for a new AAC decoder - i.e. strip out all the code we don't use and restructure it to be more efficient. 23.25.13 # SoC proposal? 23.25.16 # after how many ticks (approx.) yield should be called within a plugin, to ensure smooth audio playback and how big is the actual overhead (when calling it too often)? 23.25.23 # Gah, SoC needs to not mean "System on a Chip" as well 23.26.04 # linuxstb: well, me too, but i don't know if i can be bothered 23.26.19 # i should start coding stuff i'll actually use, and then i'd be more tempted to fix up tremor 23.27.16 # preglow: But I think it's worth seeking - if someone ever did that, it would be nice to start with the latest libfaad. 23.27.49 Quit mud-rb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.28.00 # s/seeking/syncing/ 23.28.10 Join mud-rb_ [0] (n=mud@dialup-4.156.9.79.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 23.28.49 Join karashata [0] (n=karashat@207.61.208.119) 23.29.24 # yeah 23.29.28 # it spews errors, though 23.29.32 # warnings 23.34.21 Join Robin0800 [0] (n=Robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust498.brig.cable.ntl.com) 23.35.43 # Zagor: Real has responded 23.35.51 # that was quick... 23.35.53 # Yes 23.36.13 # He's familiar with our project and would like to set up a time to talk about this over the phone. 23.36.27 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye") 23.36.29 # with whom? 23.36.42 # interesting 23.37.10 # Scott Nelson, "Dir Bus Dev IP Lic" 23.37.28 Nick james01 is now known as HeroinHero (n=james@EV-ESR-74-215-26-69.fuse.net) 23.37.53 # i mean, with which rockbox person. you? 23.38.13 # BRi7Xtra: this function doesn't disable the remote , so if you have a bad contact on the jack it can simulate a pause or othre function of the remote 23.38.22 # At the moment, Me, because I'm the one who contacted him, but I'm quite certain I could redirect him to anyone who might be better suited than I. 23.38.55 # Llorean: well, i can't think of any qualifications that would be needed that you don't have 23.39.30 # so unless you sound incredibly hostile and rude over the phone or something, it should be fine :) 23.40.09 # Llorean: yeah, you talk with him. and if either of you wants to bring a swede into the conversation I'm available 23.40.21 # It sounds promising though - at least it's not an immediate "no, you won't be able to use it". 23.40.45 # i can definitely live with people wanting to speak to us 23.40.53 # Alright, I'll set up a phone meeting and see where we stand, then if things get over my head one way or another suggest someone else I think he might better talk to. 23.41.43 # One question though, what's the important distinction with the way our plugins and/or are linked that forces them to be GPL compatible, unlike programs that use an OS API? 23.41.53 # plugins and/or codecs are linked, rather 23.42.01 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection) 23.42.36 # oh, don't ask 23.43.04 # we call host functions through struct pointers, linux programs use interrupts 23.43.21 # ours is slightly more hardwired than the other 23.43.27 # but i don't know where one draws the line 23.44.50 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") 23.45.36 Quit Suleeto () 23.45.44 # toffe82, oh no... for some reason i thought it was that, because sometimes it would change the track and i was all like "wtf?"... is there any way to disable the remote functions then? hmm, wait.. does a remote even come with gigabeat? 23.46.08 # * Robin_Watts waves 23.46.10 Part Robin_Watts 23.46.24 # BRi7Xtra: You could compile your own version of Rockbox, and disable support for the remote. 23.46.32 # BRi7Xtra: mine came with a remote 23.47.02 # hmm, if that's the case i'll plug my headphones into the remote and just do it like that 23.47.29 # preglow: Well it was more, "is there a hard line we know we're on one side of, or am I going to have to say 'We're not sure of a license-specific line we're crossing, and have decided for ourselves that we consider this linking code in the GPL sense'"? 23.47.57 # heheh, when i first got this, i tore open the box, went right for the essentials (gigabeat, usb cable, power cable, dock [not even the latter two the second time around]), turned it on, laughed at the crappy existing firmware, then loaded up rockbox 23.48.07 # i'll check the box though 23.49.15 # Llorean: someone more knowledgable than me should answer this 23.49.20 # * preglow trips Zagor 23.49.48 # I'm just worried that how we link codecs will come up, and what to know, more or less, our position there. 23.50.03 # Llorean: the linux kernel people have washed this issue inside out, and came to the conclusion that since kernel modules (codecs and plugins) are compiled for specific versions, they are derived works. 23.50.03 Quit HowdyDoody (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.50.05 # well, it's a valid concern 23.50.12 Join HowdyDoody [0] (n=Administ@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 23.50.30 # Zagor: and that surely applies to us as well, most of the time 23.50.44 # yes, we're pretty much in the same situation as they are 23.50.49 # Okay 23.50.51 # That's what I needed to know 23.50.54 # Thanks 23.51.05 # Zagor: What I don't understand at all is where to draw the line? 23.51.07 Join fenugrec [0] (n=ABC@206.167.203.215) 23.51.15 # well, that's a very clear line, if you ask me 23.51.17 Quit ompaul (Client Quit) 23.51.23 # Why is it allowed to run gpl incompatible applications on linux? 23.51.44 # because they are not version specific 23.52.05 # BRi7Xtra: there was the remote only with the F40 , not the f10 or f20 23.52.07 # hmmm 23.52.36 # yeah i've got the f40 23.52.46 # it _is_ a gray area though 23.53.00 # Thing is: Right now we have a rockbox core, which is gpl'd, and plugins need to be gpl'd too because they use the api blah blah 23.53.12 # So if we standardized our API to the point that codecs could be compiled independently, it'd be different? 23.53.18 # Llorean: aye 23.53.25 # if we standardized the interface and never broke it 23.53.30 # Of course, that's back to relocatable plugins 23.53.31 # But afaiu, introducing a "license compatibility glue layer", e.g. lgpl'd, would fix that 23.53.41 # amiconn: that's libc in linux, afaik 23.54.25 # Llorean: yeah, the fact that our plugins are statically linked enhances the point of them being derived works 23.54.32 # Why is that? The interaction still happens between the core and the plugin, it's just passed through the compatibility layer. There's no visible difference for the user 23.54.34 # amiconn: no it doesn't. that just makes the source code clean. the compiled binary is still a derivate though. 23.55.20 # amiconn: which reminds me, any showstoppers for relocating plugins/codecs to start of ram, or is it just that noone has done it yet? 23.55.56 # Zagor: In what way is linux different? The kernel is gpl'd, so no matter how many layers are between the kernel and the application, one could consider a linux application derivative work 23.57.21 Quit MethoS- ("Konversation terminated!") 23.57.22 # preglow: No one has done it, and I'm not sure about the best way to handle the partial relocation 23.57.37 # amiconn: partial relocation? 23.58.48 # Well, either the bootloader would need to know that the binary must be loaded at an offset, or the binary needs to relocate itself 23.58.55 # amiconn: the syscall interface is designed precisely to allow applications to run without including any operating system code. the plugin (or kernel module) interface is not like that.