--- Log for 25.10.108 Server: brown.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: @logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 20 days and 3 hours ago 00.00.08 # Im reseting it by holding down select and menu for a few seconds, not pressing any buttons just after reset, hold is not on, the Rockbox version is the default version installed by the Rockbox Utility , Rockbox has worked 00.00.29 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3c2ee@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e6746cfc6bfb1379) 00.01.21 # This is to nag the developers: please commit FS#9455 (custom padding string for forward scrolling lines) 00.01.30 Join Star [0] (n=453ceedb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a704ba6da4c67426) 00.01.49 # hey 00.02.12 # webguest1: Thanks :) 00.02.35 # does anyone know how to install revisions? 00.02.43 # I don't understand it :( 00.02.48 # webguest1: So Rockbox was OK, you dual booted to the Apple firmware, and now after a hard reset you still just get the Apple firmware? 00.03.09 # You haven't restored, or updated the Apple firmware or anything like that? 00.03.21 # Star: You want to install a specific revision? 00.03.41 Quit kachna (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00.03.50 # Star: You can check out a specific version of the source code with SVN then compile it 00.03.57 # o ok that may be the problem, I recently updated the Apple firmware 00.04.14 # yes, that will have removed the Rockbox bootloader 00.04.21 # yeah, I want to install 17758 because its right before when they screwed it up 00.04.33 # webguest1: You need to reinstall the bootloader with rbutil 00.04.43 # Star: "they screwed it up"? 00.04.44 # Star: Who screwed what up? 00.04.45 # ok thanks 00.04.56 # us developers did 00.05.08 # stupid developers. Shoot them! 00.05.10 # bertrik: Bastards! 00.05.32 # sue them! 00.05.37 # I want my money back! 00.05.43 # at revision 17759, they apparently screwed it up and made it so the now playing screen doesn't change with the theme 00.05.49 # Yes, it does 00.05.59 # Star: that's nonsense. 00.05.59 # It is just the theme you are trying to use is out of date 00.06.03 # so I figured, if I could install the revision before it, 17758, I could have my now playing screen? 00.06.03 # It needs fixing 00.06.11 # Fix the theme 00.06.20 # but why can't I just go back in revisions? 00.06.30 # I don't know coding...so I can't fix the theme 00.06.35 # because "fixing" an issue by avoiding it isn't fixing. 00.06.40 # Star: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17507.0 00.06.47 # also, the theme files are a simple markup language. No need for coding skills 00.06.51 # Star: No coding involved, it is easy 00.07.06 # Star: It is harder to check out a specific version of the source and compile than to fix a theme 00.07.35 # "%P %pb and %m have all been changed recently so if your WPS isnt loading its most likely because of that..." 00.07.40 # what does that even mean? 00.07.42 # * bluebrother wouldn't call it hard to check out a specific version and compile :P 00.07.49 # You can of course use an old version of Rockbox if you want but a) You wont get support and b) you will need to compile 00.07.55 # well, for starters you whould open the wps file 00.07.59 # Star: How about reading the post, not just the title? 00.08.10 # bluebrother: me neither, but ... 00.08.11 # BigBambi: bah, who reads posts? 00.08.39 # dude, that quote is from the post :P not the title 00.08.57 # read the whole damn thread, and the links contained within it 00.08.58 # :) I guess maybe I'm too stupid to understand the post? 00.09.11 # I couldn't say 00.09.12 # kk one sec :P 00.09.12 # maybe read the CustomWPS and the SimpleGuideToWPSMaking wiki pages too 00.09.44 # well, that post even has a "for the lazy" part 00.10.25 # which I never understood 00.10.54 # No, and I don't understand why the same link is there three times 00.10.59 # ...but if I did this method...wouldn't I have to change every single theme I have installed? 00.11.16 # Ple-e-ease! FS#9455. It's been such a long discussion! Now the patch shines! 00.11.21 # Star: Any that are outdated, yes 00.11.22 # how may themes are you using? 00.11.33 # Not the ones that come with Rockbox 00.11.47 # yes, custom downloaded ones 00.11.52 # from the download page :) 00.12.06 # Which download page? 00.12.07 # BigBambi: I asked JdGordon about it and he said "just to have the link there three times". Must be 1 or 2 weeks ago... 00.12.22 # pixelma: Right, silly me 00.12.39 # me too 00.12.41 # http://rockbox-themes.cleansoap.org/index.php?res=320x240x16 00.12.48 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) 00.12.49 # that page is heavily outdated 00.12.51 # That is not official, and deprecated 00.12.59 # :S 00.13.09 # It is nothing to do with us 00.13.11 # oh...where do I find updated themes -___-? 00.13.34 # (now I feel like a complete retard :3 ) 00.13.54 # The idea is to relaunch it at some point soon officially, but as of now, anything on there is completely separate (and it hasn't been updated in months) 00.13.55 # in the WpsGallerys in the wiki ? 00.14.04 # www.rockbox.org/wiki/WpsGallery 00.14.20 # rockbox.org = officialy 00.14.24 # *official 00.14.33 # * bluebrother never understood why people make such a fuss about themes 00.14.40 # Although as it is a wiki, there may well be outdated ones on there too 00.14.47 # you rarely look at the player anyway ... 00.15.21 # hmmmm 00.15.22 # Star: You can of course ask for specific problems in updating themes 00.15.35 # so will all these themes work? 00.15.43 # or only certain ones ? 00.16.19 # Which themes? 00.16.31 # the themes on the page you linked to me 00.16.35 # On the gallery, I just don't know 00.16.40 # I have an Ipod 5g if that helps 00.16.49 # I suspect a good many will 00.17.05 # :) 00.17.07 # thanks guys 00.17.10 # It depends if someone has updated it or not - these are all community submitted 00.17.16 # you can look out for those which were recently updated 00.17.32 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis) 00.17.32 # hmmmm is there a certain date that I should look at? 00.17.36 # Star: As I say, I'd strongly recommend fixing them. If you have problems, please ask 00.17.53 # like, what date would be considered "old" and not working? 00.18.09 # I would try to fix them, but trust me, I'd rather start with this... 00.18.16 # Earlier than early July I think? 00.18.22 # I'm not the smartest guy in the world :P 00.18.23 # ok thanks 00.19.12 # 23 June apparently 00.20.16 # so, are you guys like, developers of rockbox? or just really smart with it? :P 00.20.17 # being smart is one thing. Trying to get things done regardless is another ... 00.20.59 # Star: Everyone save me that answered is a dev 00.21.24 # I'm more support/a fan :) 00.21.42 # dev means developer right? 00.21.42 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") 00.21.53 # yes, sorry 00.22.04 # sok lol I was jw :) 00.22.20 # eh? 00.22.33 # does Rockbox Utility automatically install the latest version of Rockbox? 00.23.05 # webguest1: depends on the installation method. Which are you referring to, and what are you referring as latest? Latest official release or latest available? 00.23.08 # yes, if you select the correct option, the name of which I have temporarily forgotten 00.23.13 Join BlakeJohnson861 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 00.23.19 Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Iceweasel 3.0.3/2008092816]") 00.24.17 Quit BlakeJohnson86 ("Leaving.") 00.25.49 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 00.25.49 Quit BlakeJohnson861 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.27.48 # Well, when I installed Rockbox onto my Ipod I just clicked on complete installation in the Rockbox Utility. I'm referring to Rockbox 3.0, which is the current build. 00.28.34 # Rockbox 3.0 is NOT the current build. The most current build is the one created after the last commit 00.29.02 # complete installation will install the most current build. If you want to get 3.0 you need to use the "Installation" tab 00.29.10 Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 00.29.21 # by doing so you get to choose which build gets installed. 00.30.04 # o ok thanks 00.31.37 Quit blahrus ("Ex-Chat") 00.31.50 Quit bertrik ("Leaving") 00.33.13 # hmm. When moving files, should changes to those files be made separately? svn allows doing both at once 00.33.27 Join Slack [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) 00.34.57 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 00.35.43 # XavierGr: nice work! Now wake up and start nagging! :-) 00.38.02 Join aarcane [0] (n=aarcane@c-67-187-242-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 00.38.55 Quit Tetracomm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.39.35 # YAY 00.39.42 # my themes work :):):):) 00.39.46 Join Tetracomm [0] (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) 00.39.50 # AND SO DOES THE DUAL LOADER :D:D:D 00.40.15 # I love rockbox nowww :) 00.41.16 # thanks guys peace out :D 00.41.18 Quit Star ("CGI:IRC") 00.42.45 Quit avis (Remote closed the connection) 00.42.57 Quit BlakeJohnson86 ("Leaving.") 00.45.04 # can one sync ratings in rockbox with a desktop app, or with the ratings tags on the files? 00.49.08 # no 00.49.40 # fml: hehe 00.49.42 # unless you write something for doing it, of course 00.50.00 # so ratings in the rockbox db are stuck in the rockbox db? 00.51.08 # yes. 00.51.38 # bluebrother: interesting, h300, player, recorder and ondio all built fine 00.51.54 # adamgolding: Rockbox just runs on the player, it has no way to talk to your PC. A better question is to ask your favorite PC-side software authors "Can you add support for reading ratings from the Rockbox DB?" 00.52.10 # bluebrother: but let me check something first 00.52.24 # XavierGr: looks like rockbox doesn't have strncat but the sim only 00.52.38 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 00.52.54 # at least I can't find an implementation of strncat 00.53.16 # bluebrother: yup! that's what you get when you don't test it on the real target the final time 00.53.51 # now let's check for the bin delta ... 00.55.12 # bluebrother: it should be around 700, at least that's what I got some revisions before 00.55.33 # on h300 that is 00.55.57 # can't you use a lower number? 700 seems quite much for such a tiny feature to me 00.56.28 # Llorean i seem to remember someone saying rockbox could sync its db with the OF database, but i may be crazy 00.56.44 # I will test again, but what can I do, it is just 1 settings (2 for targets with remote) and 1 function 00.56.59 Join HBK- [0] (i=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) 00.57.04 # true. mini2g is 400 bytes 00.57.20 # which sounds quite better ;-) 00.57.31 # (after replacing strncat with strcat) 00.58.00 # bluebrother: I got 600 (on h300) when the setting was only pixel spacing, and there were no new functions or data except an integer 00.58.14 # so the binsize is a settings problem 00.58.39 # XavierGr: try to replace strncat with snprintf. This will eliminate one function call and make assigning 0 not necessary 00.59.14 # fml: as far as I remember we can't use snprintf on those files, let me check again 01.00.14 Quit axionix (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 01.00.14 Quit BigBambi (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 Quit AndyI (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 Quit HBK (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 Quit blithe (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 Quit DaCapn (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.14 Quit Bjoern-Erik (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01.00.33 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 01.00.33 NJoin axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-67-242-94-6.nycap.res.rr.com) 01.00.33 NJoin BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) 01.00.33 NJoin AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) 01.00.33 NJoin Bjoern-Erik [0] (n=Bjoern@173.80-202-110.nextgentel.com) 01.00.33 NJoin DaCapn [0] (i=dacapn@using.your.wireless-inter.net) 01.00.33 NJoin blithe [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) 01.01.59 # XavierGr: why not? 01.02.20 # it seems it is not included 01.02.32 # which header file does it have snprintf? 01.03.51 # snprintf should be in string.h 01.04.22 # ah, no. 01.04.28 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.04.32 # XavierGr: sprintf.h and stdio.h 01.04.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.04.58 # XavierGr: either would do 01.05.05 # stdio.h it is. 01.05.18 # * bluebrother too slow 01.05.33 Quit n1s () 01.06.17 Quit culture (Connection timed out) 01.10.51 # /quit 01.11.22 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") 01.11.56 # bluebrother: something like snprintf(s->line, sizeof(s->line), "%s%s", s->line, lcd_scroll_info.padding); 01.11.57 Quit webguest1 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 01.12.08 # should be right 01.14.11 # XavierGr: well, I'll leave that for tomorrow. Still, I dislike that the padding string doesn't get padded itself but "sticks" to the scrolling string 01.15.23 # I absolutely can't think of a case where one would want to not use a space for padding to that string 01.15.30 # bluebrother: well that's how it was done before, and changing that should be quite complex or need restructuring to achieve 01.16.18 # I mean about the sticking part 01.16.35 # previously there were two spaces as padding, so no sticking ... 01.16.56 # but IMO it should get discussed how this should work. Haven't checked the logs for that lately though. 01.17.43 # bluebrother: last time it was discussed with Lloeran and JdGordon which was about pixel space padding 01.18.02 # then it was changed to string padding 01.18.19 Quit PaulJam (".") 01.18.28 # what was the result of that discussion? No pixel padding at all? 01.18.45 # The result was the first patch on 9455 01.19.07 # but then came your idea, which fml and I welcomed ;) 01.19.25 # it is the same thing, save the string typing 01.19.35 # (which makes things a little bit more complex) 01.20.12 # so it's the patch that was deleted from the task? 01.20.53 # nope, the patch that says scroll_space_margin6.diff 01.21.11 # it is on the task description 01.21.54 Join lordpil [0] (n=lordpil@c-24-63-25-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) 01.22.48 # ok. From checking that diff it always adds a single space first. 01.23.24 # if you set it to 0 pixels it won't as far as I remember 01.23.41 # the default being 10 pixels padding of course 01.24.01 # so 0 px would have been 1 space. Which means that from my point of view it should include a space before and one after the padding string. 01.25.08 # but why is there a problem about no padding at all? Why limit it if there is no harm. If the setting is absent from the config file it will default to 3 spaces. If the entry on the config file is erroneous it will again default to 3 spaces 01.25.57 # I have the feeling that users will complain about stuff like "string +++string" 01.26.06 # it will only leave no space when the user explicitly states "" on the config file or deletes the string from the virtual keyboard 01.27.06 # well the user can always add the space, that is what this setting is all about, give the user a string and he should do whatever he likes with it 01.27.26 # literally 01.29.05 # bluebrother: about the pixel spacing patch, as I see it if the user selects 0 pixels then 0 / widdth of font = 0 so when the memset tries to input spaces it won't 01.30.10 # hmm. True. I misread the comment above. 01.31.17 # maybe having the virtual keyboard display spaces using a substituting character would help with this. 01.31.41 Quit ender` (" Man created gods. The opposite remains to be proved. -- Serge Gainsbourg") 01.32.48 # bluebrother: again I don't think that it would need that at all, remember that virtual keyboard has a carret which shows exatly if there are spaces on input (at least on the end of the string) 01.33.37 Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 01.33.59 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-10e4a900da56ae1a) 01.35.33 # XavierGr: that will only show it if the cursor is at the end of the input line. But I've got to go for today, see you tomorrow. 01.35.43 Quit bluebrother ("leaving") 01.36.26 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.37.37 Quit aarcane (Client Quit) 01.40.18 Join webguest65 [0] (n=44c492d6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-70d4370343dd5148) 01.40.58 # How do I add roms to my ipod to be able to play them using rockboy? 01.42.00 # webguest65: just put them on a normal folder and select them 01.42.16 # I mean just like playing an audio file in Rockbox 01.42.45 # I tried that but its not working 01.43.18 # what happened? 01.45.46 # I can't find them on the ipod 01.47.18 # go to settings and find the option to show either all files or supported 01.48.25 # ok 01.48.49 # on the ipod? 01.49.13 # yes 01.50.10 # Settings->General Settings->File View->Show Files->Supported or All 01.53.21 # i still don't see them 01.53.42 # webguest65: where did you put them? 01.53.53 # put them on the root of your player 01.53.59 # (just to be sure) 01.54.09 # root? 01.54.10 # then make the setting I told you to all 01.54.52 # root = E:\, G:\ or whatever letter your device is. (if you are on windows) 01.55.18 # they are supposed to be gbc files right? 01.55.23 # thats where they are 01.57.09 # it supports .gb and .gbc if I recall but try with gb only first 01.57.39 # webguest65: which Ipod do you have exactly? 01.58.06 # 5G Ipod 01.59.55 # ok, was just making sure it was an Ipod with colour display 02.01.39 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Remote closed the connection) 02.02.19 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579ECD7F.dip.t-dialin.net) 02.02.23 # ok guys I figured out how to do it 02.02.36 # thanks 02.04.04 Quit webguest65 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 02.09.06 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!") 02.09.29 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 02.13.06 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=LambdaCa@c-24-0-218-198.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) 02.16.29 Join Zarggg [0] (n=zarggg@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) 02.19.29 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis) 02.33.12 Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@ip67-152-80-239.z80-152-67.customer.algx.net) 02.46.42 Quit goffa (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02.48.25 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 03.00.48 Join HBK1 [0] (i=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) 03.03.17 Quit kachna (Remote closed the connection) 03.03.32 Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 03.04.40 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.09.06 Quit HBK- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.09.29 Part pixelma 03.09.44 Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) 03.09.46 Join pixelma2 [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 03.23.28 Quit AhtiK (Connection timed out) 03.27.43 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@216.189.211.226) 03.40.07 Join thegeek [0] (n=nnscript@s080a.studby.ntnu.no) 03.44.48 Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.46.00 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b6c29e6313560345) 03.47.13 Join thegeek [0] (n=nnscript@s080a.studby.ntnu.no) 03.48.42 # anyone know why profiling codecs doesn't seem to recognize time spent in the MDCT library? 03.53.21 # hmm no $(PROFILE_OPTS) in the codec lib's makefile 03.54.14 # well if anyone is interested, heres profiling results for everything minus the MDCT: http://pastebin.com/m7d4a9fc5 03.54.24 # the codec seems to have a lot of trouble with huffman decoding 03.54.43 # most of the remaining time is spent in dequantisation 03.58.24 Join CaptainKewl [0] (n=jason@207-237-173-165.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 03.59.27 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 04.00.14 Join nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-71-198-1-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 04.01.21 Join thegeek_ [0] (n=nnscript@s080a.studby.ntnu.no) 04.06.13 Quit thegeek (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04.07.54 Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) 04.13.59 Quit bmbl (Client Quit) 04.21.18 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 04.23.21 Join miepchen^schlaf_ [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC37C.dip.t-dialin.net) 04.31.29 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.39.42 Join pradeepto [0] (n=pradeept@59.184.240.184) 04.40.11 # heya 04.41.12 # I bought a new ipod shuffle (1GB) sometime back. I wanted to ask if rockbox works on this model. 04.41.33 # i didn't find the manual for shuffle on rockbox website. 04.43.17 # because the shuffle is not support 04.43.52 # ed 04.43.58 # ah, thats what i wanted to know. 04.43.58 # thanks. 04.44.54 # Great work btw @ rockbox. :) 04.44.55 Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-52-49.dsl.telesp.net.br) 04.52.43 Join blkhawk- [0] (n=blkhawk@g229211053.adsl.alicedsl.de) 04.53.27 Quit pradeepto ("Konversation terminated!") 04.58.35 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05.03.11 Quit kachna (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 05.03.11 Quit perrikwp (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit amiconn (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit Thedjatclubrock (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit GodEater_ (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit linuxstb (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit basti (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit ChanServ (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit Seed (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit Llorean (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit wpyh (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit z35 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit Unhelpful (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit agaffney (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit trisiak (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit ch4os (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit plus_M (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.03.11 Quit TMM (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05.04.24 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 05.04.24 NJoin ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) 05.04.24 NJoin Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) 05.04.24 NJoin kachna [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 05.04.24 NJoin perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-10e4a900da56ae1a) 05.04.24 NJoin BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 05.04.24 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean) 05.04.24 NJoin wpyh [0] (n=william@123.151.132.201) 05.04.24 NJoin amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 05.04.24 Join Thedjatclubrock [0] (n=TDJACR@Wikipedia/Thedjatclubrock) 05.04.24 NJoin z35 [0] (n=z35@h109.120.31.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) 05.04.24 NJoin GodEater_ [0] (n=ge@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 05.04.24 NJoin linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 05.04.24 NJoin basti [0] (n=basti@85.214.109.173) 05.04.24 NJoin Unhelpful [0] (n=Militant@pool-98-117-9-134.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) 05.04.24 NJoin agaffney [0] (n=agaffney@gentoo/developer/pdpc.active.agaffney) 05.04.24 NJoin trisiak [0] (n=tree@chello089078243195.chello.pl) 05.04.24 NJoin ch4os [0] (n=ch4os@gentoo/user/ch4os) 05.04.25 NJoin TMM [0] (n=hp@5ED10264.cable.ziggo.nl) 05.04.25 NJoin plus_M [0] (n=plus@li26-205.members.linode.com) 05.04.25 Mode "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net 05.04.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.04.44 Part toffe82 05.06.17 Quit FOAD (Remote closed the connection) 05.06.28 Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 05.07.32 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka") 05.09.33 Quit DaCapn (Remote closed the connection) 05.09.41 Join DaCapn [0] (i=dacapn@using.your.wireless-inter.net) 05.10.18 Quit blkhawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05.10.42 Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g229211053.adsl.alicedsl.de) 05.14.43 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@216.189.211.226) 05.40.44 Join blkhawk- [0] (n=blkhawk@g226132111.adsl.alicedsl.de) 05.42.31 Part toffe82 05.46.23 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC23E.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.47.09 Join aarcane [0] (n=aarcane@c-67-187-242-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 05.50.45 Join Darksair [0] (n=user@125.33.196.68) 05.53.07 Quit miepchen^schlaf_ (Connection timed out) 05.58.10 Quit blkhawk (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05.58.42 Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g226132111.adsl.alicedsl.de) 06.19.12 Join thegeek [0] (n=nnscript@s243b.studby.ntnu.no) 06.24.41 Join nicholas_ [0] (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) 06.28.07 Quit thegeek_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.29.42 Quit Tetracomm (Nick collision from services.) 06.30.31 Nick nicholas_ is now known as Tetracomm (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) 06.34.32 Quit XavierGr () 06.36.42 Quit aarcane ("Leaving") 06.39.04 Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@ip67-152-80-239.z80-152-67.customer.algx.net) 07.04.47 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.12.54 Join Siku [0] (n=Siku@e212-246-214-27.elisa-laajakaista.fi) 07.14.15 Quit Siku (Client Quit) 07.24.57 Part wpyh 07.31.16 Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) 07.34.03 Quit Tetracomm ("Visit: www.kompulsa.com") 07.34.18 Quit pixelma2 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.18 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 07.34.18 Quit blithe (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.18 Quit Bjoern-Erik (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.18 Quit BigBambi (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.18 Quit AndyI (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.18 Quit axionix (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07.34.37 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 07.34.37 NJoin pixelma2 [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 07.34.37 NJoin axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-67-242-94-6.nycap.res.rr.com) 07.34.37 NJoin BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) 07.34.37 NJoin AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) 07.34.37 NJoin Bjoern-Erik [0] (n=Bjoern@173.80-202-110.nextgentel.com) 07.34.37 NJoin blithe [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) 07.37.32 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 07.37.35 Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) 07.39.34 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ded8141463606f0f) 07.40.27 Quit AhtiK (Success) 07.45.00 Quit AndyI (Connection timed out) 07.45.07 Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 07.48.14 Quit J-23 (Remote closed the connection) 07.52.29 Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) 08.05.14 Quit m0f0x () 08.07.37 Quit HellDragon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08.13.02 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.22.10 Quit lordpil (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08.26.13 Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection) 08.26.56 Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) 08.32.21 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 08.35.09 Quit Darksair ("(define zero (lambda (f) (lambda (x) x)))") 08.55.33 Join Rob2223 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCE7C6.dip.t-dialin.net) 08.58.21 Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE20C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 09.04.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.07.46 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 09.14.17 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09.16.34 Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09.17.11 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 09.17.33 Join pvbcharon [0] (n=charon@8.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com) 09.17.41 Quit pvbcharon (Remote closed the connection) 09.24.46 Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) 09.29.07 Quit pixelma2 ("-") 09.29.12 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 09.32.29 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09.34.16 Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE20C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 09.36.18 Join Acky [0] (n=omgwtfbb@cpc2-stok5-0-0-cust754.bagu.cable.ntl.com) 09.37.56 Quit nuonguy ("This computer has gone to sleep") 09.51.38 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF4B5.dip.t-dialin.net) 09.53.49 Quit Acksaw (Connection timed out) 09.58.45 Quit Rob2223 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10.11.19 Join reacocard [0] (n=reacocar@WL-112.CINE.HMC.Edu) 10.14.09 # So I managed to install grub on my ipod without breaking the firmware by embedding a FAT16 partition with GRUB on it on the last 12 sectors of the drive. 10.14.34 # But I'm kind of a n00b. How would I setup a menu and the like... 10.18.27 Join Acksaw [0] (n=omgwtfbb@cpc2-stok5-0-0-cust754.bagu.cable.ntl.com) 10.22.47 # * pixelma looks around for the connection with Rockbox 10.24.16 Join lacrstech [0] (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2) 10.29.16 Quit Acky (Connection timed out) 10.40.12 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10.51.49 Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@Wbc2d.w.pppool.de) 10.54.20 Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B44D97.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.59.18 Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@p5B03247B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 11.04.43 Join mrkiko [0] (n=IRCExplo@77.240.229.242) 11.04.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.04.55 # Hi all! 11.04.57 # I'm back again... 11.04.58 # :D 11.05.28 Join Darksair [0] (n=user@221.221.153.55) 11.19.19 Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Iceweasel 3.0.3/2008092816]") 11.20.02 Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE20C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 11.22.46 Join kronflux [0] (n=kronflux@blk-138-78-15.eastlink.ca) 11.22.56 Quit kronflux (Client Quit) 11.28.03 Join culture [0] (n=none@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) 11.29.31 Quit kachna (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11.33.59 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c211-28-145-137.smelb2.vic.optusnet.com.au) 11.35.45 Quit Slack ("Ex-Chat") 11.35.48 Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 11.36.17 # is there any reason to keep the old wxWidgets rbutil code around? seems a bit silly having rbuitl/rbutilqt 11.40.08 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host99-208-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 11.42.38 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 11.43.43 # JdGordon: ? The old wxwidgets code was removed about a year ago. 11.44.09 # haha woops... 11.44.11 Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) 11.44.22 # * JdGordon will reply to your email... just not right now 12.01.19 # what would be the general feeling towards setting up a system so things which use buffer_alloc() could be released and realloced to allow things being en/disabled without restart, or user being able to increasse buffer sizes if needed? 12.01.50 # then maybe being able to do this without evn stopping playback? 12.02.46 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@e181141139.adsl.alicedsl.de) 12.03.19 Join MethoS [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-214-160.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 12.07.45 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 12.08.41 # I think it would definitely be nice to be able to reallocate things without rebooting, but I wouldn't want it to get too complicated. 12.09.23 # complication is my middle name 12.10.14 # I just checked the source and was pretty surpried to see the zvm needing buffer_Alloc() in its ata driver which could make things interesting 12.10.33 # thats the only firmware level call (other than dircache) 12.13.21 # How big is that alloc? 12.14.05 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 12.15.13 # not sure.... its some filesize/0x8000 12.15.45 # * JdGordon will try to remember to ask mcuelenaere about it 12.16.06 # JdGordon: that would be a nice feature indeed, /me takes cover from malloc haters ;) 12.16.17 # Maybe we need two kinds of buffer_alloc - ones which depend on user settings, and ones which don't. If possible, the ones that don't vary should be done first, and then "locked" in some way. 12.16.29 # n1s: well yeah, thats the argument against 12.16.33 Quit Horscht ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad") 12.16.56 # and yeah, no reason we could split it into a permanet and less permanant buffer 12.25.28 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12.25.32 # One thing not to forget - stopping/resuming playback is fine (IMO), but not recording.., 12.26.24 # The new sansa bootloaders and sansapatchers in FS#9369 seems to be tested and working ok any last comments before they go on the servers? 12.27.36 Quit einhirn (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12.27.36 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 12.27.36 Quit blithe (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12.27.36 Quit Bjoern-Erik (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12.27.36 Quit BigBambi (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12.27.36 Quit axionix (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12.28.00 # linuxstb: the reallocing wouldnt be able to happen unless the user asked for it, and they (hopefully) wouldnt do that while recording 12.28.24 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 12.28.24 NJoin einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@p5B03247B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 12.28.24 NJoin axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-67-242-94-6.nycap.res.rr.com) 12.28.24 NJoin BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) 12.28.24 NJoin Bjoern-Erik [0] (n=Bjoern@173.80-202-110.nextgentel.com) 12.28.24 NJoin blithe [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) 12.28.44 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@77.164.66.126) 12.31.01 # JdGordon: we could put in a "This will stop and restart recording, are you sure you want to?" thing when recording. 12.32.24 # yeah 12.38.41 Quit einhirn (Connection timed out) 12.43.37 Join hannesd [0] (n=light@p5B1639C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 12.46.09 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12.48.15 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 12.48.27 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 12.49.43 Join funman [0] (n=fun@AAnnecy-257-1-23-63.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) 12.54.22 Join meven [0] (n=meven@lav35-1-82-236-137-162.fbx.proxad.net) 12.57.51 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@dslb-088-075-218-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) 12.58.49 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 13.02.39 Quit homielowe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13.04.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.06.15 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 13.07.57 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) 13.22.46 Quit hannesd ("Client suicide") 13.25.37 Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@p5B03247B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 13.27.52 Quit meven (Remote closed the connection) 13.27.59 Join meven [0] (n=meven@lav35-1-82-236-137-162.fbx.proxad.net) 13.32.23 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@dslb-088-075-204-200.pools.arcor-ip.net) 13.33.37 Quit funman ("Lost terminal") 13.34.23 Join funman [0] (n=fun@AAnnecy-257-1-23-63.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) 13.35.52 Part pixelma 13.36.13 Join pixelma2 [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 13.38.31 Quit kachna (No route to host) 13.40.09 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 13.42.41 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@dslb-088-075-204-200.pools.arcor-ip.net) 13.45.20 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") 13.50.16 Quit meven (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.21.27 Join NeoNinja [0] (n=jsboy4@dhcp-0-1c-10-1a-d6-ad.cpe.mountaincable.net) 14.21.58 Part NeoNinja 14.22.19 Join martian67 [0] (n=alka24@about/linux/regular/martian67) 14.24.21 # hmm, it seems the codeclib mdct thingy is built with the same O level as the rest of rockbox, this should probably be tested with different levels, especially on gigabeat f since that uses the c version and while the coldfires do too, 02 doesn't seem to make any difference there. 14.24.40 Quit pixelma2 (Nick collision from services.) 14.24.46 Join pixelma2_ [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 14.24.48 Nick pixelma2_ is now known as pixelma2 (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 14.25.07 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 14.25.13 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 14.28.55 Join xorAxAx [0] (n=xorAxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) 14.29.35 # hmm, my rockbox doesnt play AAC-LC m4b files, it recognizes the length as 15 min. even though they have 30 and skips them completely 14.29.55 # any idea why this could happen? might upgrading help? 14.30.30 # depends how old your current version is, I don't know which changes went in AAC decoder lately 14.30.56 # what's m4b, I suppose you meant m4a ? 14.31.13 # m4b is bookmarkable m4a 14.31.26 # no idea if they differ besides the file extension, its aliased in rockbox 14.31.48 # even if rockbox doesn't support bookmarks it should ignore them, so there is no big deal 14.32.34 # no error on the screen ? can you play them with another player ? 14.32.45 # are they drm'd? 14.55.55 # I have the Clip' SDRAM initialization fine ;) 15.01.11 Join moos [0] (i=moos@81-66-141-133.rev.numericable.fr) 15.02.24 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 15.02.32 Quit bmbl (No route to host) 15.02.46 Join wpyh [0] (n=william@123.151.132.201) 15.03.11 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-097-240-026.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 15.04.12 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) 15.04.27 # JdGordon: you wanted to ask me something? 15.04.59 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.05.17 # about the buffer_alloc() in the zvn ata driver 15.05.40 # ah yes 15.05.52 # that's because it needs quite a lot of RAM 15.06.14 # and as it depends on the partition, it is prettier if it gets allocated dynamically 15.06.25 # ok, we can work around it 15.07.34 Quit reacocard (".") 15.08.35 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15.09.09 # funman: nice ! 15.10.26 # looks like the m200v2 has the same kind of SDRAM 15.12.18 # m200v2 seems to have 512k x16bit x2 banks = 2MB Sdram.. if i read the markings correctly 15.13.10 # 1Mbit * 16, 2 banks 15.13.24 # according to PL172 datasheet 15.14.28 # martian67: no 15.14.31 # funman: yes, mplayer works fine 15.15.52 # xorAxAx: in my own experience, AAC support is quite buggy and differs in different players, did you try another program ? 15.22.21 Quit bughunter2 ("bye") 15.23.27 Quit MethoS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15.23.34 # funman: hmm? 15.23.43 # to see what? 15.24.04 # if a bug in mplayer lets it play your broken file 15.27.59 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 15.34.31 Quit J-23 ("Flying cow pressed ^D on my keyboard.") 15.34.51 Join stoffel_ [0] (n=sfr@p57B4E6C0.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.35.06 Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) 15.36.39 Quit J-23 (Client Quit) 15.37.23 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) 15.42.02 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 15.48.10 Join J-23 [0] (n=J-23@a105.net128.okay.pl) 15.51.08 Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents") 15.55.45 Join dany_21a_ [0] (n=dan@84-119-14-145.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) 16.00.07 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 16.01.11 Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B44D97.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.01.15 # domonoky: can you try the SDRAM code on your m200v2 ? 16.01.34 # i am just trying :-) 16.02.03 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-097-242-187.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 16.04.39 # it didn't work before because I missed something the OF does: loading the word at offset 0x4600 in the RAM - I have absolutely no idea what this step does 16.05.35 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1abe2364c9ed1f2c) 16.07.24 Join jchillerup [0] (n=aaa@hald.gbar.dtu.dk) 16.07.56 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@dslb-088-075-214-162.pools.arcor-ip.net) 16.07.59 # Hi. I want to help you get as much info as possible about the ipod classic. How can I help? 16.08.17 # break the firmware encryption 16.08.19 # I also have some C experience, but I supopse that isn't really needed at this point 16.08.34 # Can I read about what has been done thus far anywhere? 16.09.02 # jchillerup: maybe you should contact the linux4nano project, hoping the encryption is the same for classic and nano 16.09.21 # hm yeah 16.09.31 # funman: sdram_test() reports OK for sansa m200v2 ! :-) 16.09.41 # Thing is, I need a new MP3 player. I'm considering buying an ipod because of its size 16.09.47 # like, physical size 16.10.08 # I already have a 5g which I love, but it broke yesterday :( 16.10.10 # funman: can i test something on the e200? 16.10.33 # JdGordon: not out of the box since there is no lcd driver yet 16.10.36 # domonoky: good ;) 16.10.53 # bah, oh yeah :( 16.10.54 # dany_21a_ is going to test on the e200v2 already I think 16.11.34 # jchillerup: if you want rockbox, better buy a second hand player 16.11.45 # or buy a still-manufactured sansav2 and help us porting ;) 16.11.46 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 16.11.56 # yeah. But I'm also considering contributing to this project 16.12.03 # I'm not as dumb as I sound currently :) 16.12.33 Quit synergist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.12.40 # when I joined I knew nearly nothing about embedded devices and now we have made a great progress so it's worth :) 16.12.44 # In my opinion, the classic is very unlikely to ever have a rockbox port. 16.12.59 # I know something about embedded systems, and a great deal of C 16.13.20 # * domonoky cheers to funman, really good work ! 16.14.01 # jchillerup: if you know C you can browse the bug reports and patches and comment/fix stuff 16.14.10 # Hm. Wouldn't it be possible to use a ring 0 debugger and an USB snooping program in parallel and figure out what itunes does when uploading a new firmware 16.14.19 # Not a bad idea 16.14.26 # jchillerup: I think it's useless 16.14.27 # (the bug fixing stuff) 16.14.31 # jchillerup: pretty useless 16.14.34 # you're assuming the firmware isn't encrypted the entire path. 16.14.34 # most likely 16.14.48 # and your assumption is wrong. 16.14.49 # according to linux4nano findings the firmware is stored on the device still encrypted 16.14.55 # Oh. 16.15.12 # domonoky: now the last step: SD ! 16.15.17 # If I was a hardware vendor I'd endorse homebrew :) 16.15.31 # then buy Apple ;) 16.15.58 # Mind you, decrypting the firmware is a one-off thing and only enables reverse engineering. There is still the non trivial fact that the firmware is most likely either signed or required to be encrypted to be executed by the player's hardware. 16.16.23 # funman: yes, SD is now really needed.. when we have SD, it wont take long, and we can play super mario :-) 16.16.47 # And if we assume Apple put a penny's worth of effort into the attempt, they would use public key encryption meaning you have no home of ever finding the signing key. 16.16.49 # :P 16.17.22 # soap: public key encryption would be a very bad choice 16.17.32 # for a embedded device 16.17.38 # why? 16.17.40 # public key encryption is very slow 16.17.41 # So help funman with the Sansa v2s, and I'll send you a nice "Classic" sticker you can attach to your E200 ;) 16.17.56 # soap: if symetric encryption is used I would think there is no need for signing 16.18.13 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.18.17 # martian67: we're talking about a few megabytes on boot on a 500MHz CPU 16.18.21 # most likely what they have is a symetric key encrypted by an public key 16.18.23 # since if it's not encrypted with the correct key, decrypting wouldn't result on a valid firmware 16.18.26 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16.18.29 # gevaerts: way too slow 16.18.46 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 16.18.53 # And who says that they donm 16.19.00 # martian67, slow is a state of being, not a unit of time. You don't always need to use the fastest solution to be effective and considering the Apple firmware sleeps, as opposed to powering off 99% of the time, you only need to decrypt once in a blue moon. 16.19.00 # And who says that they don't have hardware help? 16.19.12 # there is cryptographic chips in mac computers 16.19.27 # I know they can be used to store keys, not sure if they can help computation 16.19.34 # gevaerts: why would they even go to such lengths? 16.19.48 # why wouldn't they? 16.19.51 # why would they include a dedicated crypto chip 16.19.55 # It's easy, cheap, and a one-off expense. 16.19.57 # that would just drive up cost for no reason 16.20.06 # If you do encryption, either you do it properly or you don't do it atb all 16.20.23 # they arnt trying to stop the nsa from accessing their childporn 16.20.34 # so, no thats a very invalid sentiment 16.20.40 # and there is good reason to believe the SoC they use supports it by default. There are plenty of SoCs out there which do. 16.20.52 # I think they do worse: preventing geeks from accessing their appleporn 16.21.32 # martian67: if you do symmetric encription, someone will find the key 16.21.56 # they likely do what i said 16.22.01 # most likely what they have is a symetric key encrypted by an public key 16.22.07 # It may take a while, and it may take special hardware and electron microscopes, but they will find it 16.22.12 # thats how any reasonable system does it 16.22.13 # peroid 16.22.20 # it's what is used in SSL 16.22.21 # ssh, ssl 16.22.22 # etc 16.22.55 # which means the symetric key gets loaded into memory 16.22.58 # at some point 16.23.10 # And how does that help you? 16.23.25 # it would allow you to decrypt the firmware 16.23.41 # Yes, but you still can't run your own code 16.23.57 # there may be an exploit 16.23.57 # So it's totally useless 16.24.02 Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable204.232-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) 16.24.03 # like what has worked for a lot of platforms 16.24.05 # no, not useless 16.24.10 # there may be life on the moon - doesn't help us 16.24.20 # thats exactly how the psp was cracked 16.24.22 # and the wii 16.24.51 # Consider the difference between a system designed to run third-party code and a system not. 16.24.56 Join meven [0] (n=meven@lav35-1-82-236-137-162.fbx.proxad.net) 16.25.04 # * gevaerts will believe that it's not useless when he sees code run, not before 16.25.14 # well calling it useless ahead of time 16.25.20 # its rather premature 16.25.35 # soap: all psp and wii applications are signed just like apples 16.25.44 # missing the greater point. 16.25.46 # So is saying that it must use symmetric encryption when asymmetric makes much more sense 16.26.00 # you're mixing and matching the idea of applications and one-off firmwares. 16.26.01 # gevaerts: i didnt say it DIDNT use asymetric 16.26.15 # i said it most likely dosent use asymetric encryption alone 16.26.17 # its too slow 16.26.29 # and there really is no point 16.26.30 # I showed you why it doesn't matter how slow it is. 16.26.44 # soap: if the ipod takes 1 minute to boot 16.26.48 # people arnt gonna like that 16.26.57 # and furthermore, it dosent 16.26.58 # The ipod SLEEPS it only boots once in a blue moon. 16.27.06 Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 16.27.08 # don't forget it's all hypothesis - not much to argue on ;) 16.27.37 # soap: the ipod boot time is too fast for it to be entirely asymetric 16.27.46 # it ISN'T BOOTING 16.27.51 # it is awaking. 16.27.52 # when it does boot 16.27.56 # is what im saying 16.28.24 # You're still assuming that there is no hardware help 16.29.03 # i am not aware of any hardware that does asymetric acceleration 16.29.18 # Even if the key is loaded to memory, that doesn't help if you can't read the memory.. 16.29.20 # but, dosent mean that it dosent exist 16.29.43 # gevaerts: it would be a very small market, basicly nothing relies entirely on asymetric keys 16.30.11 # except pgp/gpg 16.30.21 # yes 16.30.51 # but it's 'pretty great paranoia' , not much related to the ipod i guess 16.31.29 # soap: Newer iPods do run games, so I guess that's one attack vector 16.31.50 # Assuming you managed to fool it into running your own one, somehow 16.31.56 # aren't they Apple games? 16.32.04 # even then 16.32.09 # its addon software 16.32.20 # soap: They're not built into the firmware - you can download new ones etc 16.32.26 Quit J-23 ("Leaving") 16.32.31 # Don't people usually use game datafiles, and not the game itself? 16.33.02 Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) 16.33.02 # gevaerts: dont forget the ipod has datafiles too :) 16.33.02 # namely music and movies 16.33.19 # Calling a limited number of 1st party software addons the same as a huge selection of 3rd party ones is pushing the limits of semantics, IMHO. 16.33.26 # decrypting the firmware would be the first step in discovering any exploits 16.33.28 # and settings and playlists 16.33.51 # soap: it dosent change anything ive said 16.34.15 # so you really are arguing a moot point 16.34.32 # martian67: indeed. So first decrypt the firmware, then look at the rest. But as long as nobody has any idea about what encryption system is used, nothing much will happen 16.34.38 # the sansa clip is the sexiest ever anyway, no point talking about ipod classic ;) 16.34.42 # this is true 16.35.06 # but im just saying, it likely has a significant weakness 16.35.18 # and that weakness is LIKELY that a symetric key is in memory 16.35.32 # wasn't the sansa(v1) encryption (or only signing) defeated ? 16.35.35 # * gevaerts still isn't convinced of that 16.35.43 # Post your proposal for a likely attack vector and the monies you need to do it, and I've long said I'll pay for it. Else this is navel-gazing. 16.35.43 # martian: Still, good luck getting at that if it's there 16.36.16 # soap: attack vector: buying 51% Apple shares. will you fund? 16.36.21 # lol 16.36.24 # lol :) 16.36.29 # funman: yes, the sansa v1 signing was defeated, because there is a big hole.. :-) 16.36.52 Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@ip67-152-80-239.z80-152-67.customer.algx.net) 16.37.59 # as well as in debian's openssh patches; so why not in Apple's code ? 16.38.07 # (reasonable monies) - I'm not buying a scanning electron microscope for you. 16.38.15 # I think the first step will be when cryptographers become interested 16.38.55 # Problem is, the intersection of cryptographers, hardware engineers and ipod owners is pretty small... 16.39.01 # domonoky: but the actual encryption was broken too, i just turned out that we don't need to use it :) 16.39.29 # rasher: you forget the intersection with the interested people ;) 16.43.20 Join God_Eater [0] (i=568ef0a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-015cd0fad729949c) 16.46.54 Quit funman ("leaving") 16.49.31 Quit God_Eater ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 16.51.23 Join Acky [0] (n=omgwtfbb@cpc2-stok5-0-0-cust754.bagu.cable.ntl.com) 16.51.28 Join saratoga [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c609a59caf006496) 16.55.03 Quit saratoga (Client Quit) 16.55.38 Quit Acksaw (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16.57.34 Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) 17.01.56 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 17.04.54 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 17.05.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.09.05 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.13.23 Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 17.17.20 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17.18.33 Join CaptainKewl [0] (n=jason@207-237-173-165.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 17.19.00 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 17.23.46 Join stripwax__ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 17.31.26 Quit AhtiK (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 17.31.26 Quit miepchen^schlaf (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 Quit lacrstech (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 Quit Rob2222 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 Quit adamgolding (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 Quit jhMikeS (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.26 Quit Bagder (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17.31.56 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 17.31.56 NJoin AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@ip67-152-80-239.z80-152-67.customer.algx.net) 17.31.56 NJoin miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@dslb-088-075-214-162.pools.arcor-ip.net) 17.31.56 NJoin lacrstech [0] (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2) 17.31.56 NJoin Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF4B5.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.31.56 NJoin adamgolding [0] (i=adamgold@i209-195-79-79.cia.com) 17.31.56 NJoin jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 17.31.56 NJoin Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 17.34.53 Quit martian67 () 17.40.01 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.40.09 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17.50.20 Join ahti_ [0] (n=ahti@ip67-152-80-226.z80-152-67.customer.algx.net) 17.54.01 Quit meven (Remote closed the connection) 17.55.26 Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@e181100153.adsl.alicedsl.de) 17.56.45 Quit AhtiK (No route to host) 17.59.10 Part wpyh 18.14.39 Quit ahti_ (Connection timed out) 18.15.02 Quit Nibbl (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18.16.36 Join kronflux [0] (n=kronflux@blk-138-78-15.eastlink.ca) 18.16.56 Quit kronflux (Client Quit) 18.19.05 Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) 18.21.57 Join karashata [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 18.23.29 Quit stripwax__ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 18.32.54 Join jackall [0] (n=jackall@roa76-7-88-167-36-80.fbx.proxad.net) 18.33.16 # hello tout le monde 18.34.33 # welcome, please write english :-) 18.34.42 # je ne parlais francais ... 18.35.02 # ok sorry 18.35.10 # hello every one :) 18.35.32 # * bluebrother wonders if his french was anything near correct 18.35.58 # I got a problem for installing ipodlinux on my ipod nano 3rd gen 18.36.02 # bluebrother: s/parlais/parle ;) 18.36.11 # +pas 18.36.30 # * moos hides and quit 18.36.32 # jackall: first, this channel is about Rockbox. Second, Rockbox doesn't run on the Nano 3G, and IPL doesn't either 18.36.38 Quit moos ("bye all") 18.36.45 # jackall: for ipodlinux problemes, please go to #ipodlinux.. 18.37.09 # unless they did a major breakthrough, but I highly doubt that 18.37.37 # oki that was my second question ( if there were any way of getting it to work - rockbox-) 18.38.07 # no they dont , and I m also on #ipodlinux but no answer yet 18.39.19 # so there really is no chance for me get rid of apples firmware ... 18.39.26 # :'( 18.39.44 # get a different player (or an older Ipod) ;-) 18.40.06 # that would be a good solution ^^ 18.40.31 # * bluebrother pats his mini 18.41.47 # sorry?! 18.42.54 # Ipod Mini. The best Ipod ever made (IMO ;) 18.44.18 # maybe never test one, mine is a nano 3rd gen with video ( pretty good but the firmware is "a bit " too restrictive for a open source fan ) 18.44.28 Quit Bagder (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.44.28 NSplit brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 18.44.28 Quit jhMikeS (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.44.28 Quit Rob2222 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.44.28 Quit miepchen^schlaf (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.44.28 Quit lacrstech (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.44.28 Quit adamgolding (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18.45.02 NHeal brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 18.45.02 NJoin lacrstech [0] (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2) 18.45.02 NJoin Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF4B5.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.45.02 NJoin adamgolding [0] (i=adamgold@i209-195-79-79.cia.com) 18.45.02 NJoin jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 18.45.02 NJoin Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 18.45.37 Join meven [0] (n=meven@lav35-1-82-236-137-162.fbx.proxad.net) 18.46.02 # ok must go 18.46.20 # bye and thak your for your help and your work 18.46.54 Quit jackall ("bye") 18.47.42 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 18.50.51 Quit mrkiko (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.51.28 Join nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-71-198-1-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 18.51.39 # hmm, seems like i overlooked one thing in the calendar plugin buttonmap, ipods use menu+select to exit and select+play to open the editing menu, would it not be better to exit with menu and open the menu with select? 18.52.28 # can't menu open the menu? At least that's written on the button ... 18.55.54 Part xorAxAx ("I am a partmsg virus! Copy me into your configuration! X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*") 18.57.47 # hmm, it's not for opening the menu, it's for showing the memos for a day, so select seems more logical to me, there's however nothing preventing us from using menu and select in the same way, if we for example exit with play or menu + selec 19.00.49 # ah, wrong again, menu is used for another function, i'll go with select for selecting and menu+select for exiting then 19.03.47 Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@e181100153.adsl.alicedsl.de) 19.04.16 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) 19.05.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.05.38 Join wpyh [0] (n=william@123.151.132.201) 19.06.43 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.11.15 Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-224-075.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.17.03 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) 19.24.35 Quit J-23 ("Flying cow pressed ^D on my keyboard.") 19.24.53 Quit Nibbl (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19.29.55 Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net) 19.31.59 # does the pluginlib menu handling also handle the backdrop / statusbar settings? 19.31.59 Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 19.32.03 Join ahti_ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 19.32.10 Quit ahti_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.43.14 Join webguest10 [0] (n=507957f6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-90a542070edbd5d4) 19.43.26 Join Photoguy [0] (n=Adams@91.143.237.183) 19.44.13 # Anybody here? 19.44.39 # no 19.44.52 # Ok, I was wondering what that website was again.. 19.45.01 # only bots around 19.45.02 # The one that sells v1 e200's. 19.45.28 # there isn't a specific one. froobi had some refurbished ones. No idea if they still got some 19.45.30 # It had something to do with frogs I think. 19.45.36 Join krazykit` [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net) 19.45.36 Quit krazykit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.45.39 # Yeah that's it! 19.45.41 # Thanks. 19.45.43 # ebay is also a site you can get ones 19.45.50 # Yeah. 19.46.00 # I have a v1, and it's failing. 19.46.03 # :P 19.46.26 Quit Darksair ("(define (add-1 n) (lambda (f) (lambda (x) (f ((n f) x)))))") 19.46.41 Nick krazykit` is now known as krazykit (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net) 19.49.42 Quit AhtiK (Connection timed out) 19.53.39 # The e250r works with rockbox, correct? 19.53.45 # yes 19.54.36 # it's just a tiny bit more complicated to install the bootloader the first time 19.54.48 # Hmmm. 19.55.03 # I'm conidering buying one from froobi. 19.55.54 Quit karashata ("I go, only to return again some time...") 19.58.36 Join karashata [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 19.59.22 # So, anyone have any thoughts about a good rockbox compatible mp3 player? 19.59.51 # i'm sure the BuyersGuide wiki page has a couple of thoughts on the matter ;) 20.00.22 # So, what do you guys do here? 20.00.27 # Shoo people away? 20.00.28 # :) 20.00.38 Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 20.01.02 # shoo them to the wiki if there's a relevant page :) 20.01.21 # no, we talk about rockbox, but repeating the same question/answer over and over again isn't that much fun so we put it in the wiki 20.01.33 # als since the answer is long and complex 20.02.24 # the major problem is that a "good" player heavily depends on your needs / requirements. A player I consider good might be something you didn't consider good at all. 20.02.57 # Yeah. 20.03.01 Join faemir [0] (n=quassel@88-106-238-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) 20.03.17 # I just want flash memory, and decent build quality. 20.03.22 # If you want a flash player and if can wait a little bit longer, you might consider looking at the Cowon D2 20.04.05 # Are the creating a port for it? 20.04.16 Quit karashata ("I go, only to return again some time...") 20.04.19 # Photoguy: the only supported flash based players are ipod nano 1g sansa e200 v1, c200 v1 and archos ondio 20.04.21 # of course, the danger is that the port may never get finished for a variety of reasons. 20.04.28 # There is already a port, but it's not stable enough 20.04.34 # Hmm. 20.04.38 # there is work underway to port Rockbox to the D2. But I wouldn't hold my breath, there is no guarantee when or even if that gets finished. 20.04.53 # several ports to newer flash based targets are in progress but there is no telling when/if they will get usable 20.05.03 # Yeah. 20.05.17 # Well the Cowon d2 looks pretty good. 20.05.33 # IIRC the D2 is already *usable*, but there are still some issues with the NAND 20.05.34 # Nice sized screem 20.05.35 # http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10164.465 20.05.57 # and the problem with the D2 is not stability but the lack in unfinished / unknown hardware stuff. One issue is the flash memory itself as that player requires doing the wear levelling in the firmware itself 20.06.36 # Hmm. 20.07.01 # If only someone could consult the company. 20.07.01 # Or have they? 20.07.04 Quit dany_21a_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20.07.07 # I'm sure they tried 20.07.23 # Yeah. 20.07.30 # But most companies don't cooperate 20.08.25 # My plan is to wait another year, sell my X5 and purchase some rockboxable, flash based player with 32Gb 20.08.40 # Yeah, sounds like a good plan. 20.09.21 # The Cowon X5 is a VERY good player, but it's HDD-based and therefore quite large compared to the flash players... 20.09.31 # Yeah. 20.09.44 Join ahti_ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 20.09.48 # I like the small size, and sturdy build of the e200 20.10.05 # The Sansa V2 port also looks quite interesting 20.11.15 # Yeah 20.11.45 # Well I have to go now. I hope I confused you ;) 20.11.47 # bye 20.11.50 Quit webguest10 ("CGI:IRC") 20.11.52 # The thing is, my v1 is failing, so I want to get something soon. 20.12.57 # it seems a lot of the new flash target ports are waiting for a breakthrough with the storage.. :-/ 20.13.33 # Photoguy: if you are in the us, buy new e200v1 from frooby, they are cheap.. 20.13.51 # froobi 20.14.01 # Yeah. 20.14.04 # I might do that. 20.14.19 # And keep mine for parts :) 20.16.24 # Weird. 20.16.53 # The E280 is only $10 more that the E250. 20.18.21 Join karashata [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.19.29 Quit AhtiK (Connection timed out) 20.21.46 # is there something like LCD_BLACK for the available greyscales? 20.22.24 Quit karashata (Client Quit) 20.23.00 Join karashata [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.23.23 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) 20.26.16 Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable204.232-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) 20.28.22 Join kachna|lappy [0] (n=kachna@r4ax178.net.upc.cz) 20.29.33 Quit kachna (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.32.38 Part Strife89 20.33.34 # * bluebrother found LCD_LIGHTGRAY 20.38.14 Quit karashata (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.38.20 Join karashata [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.43.25 Quit meven (Remote closed the connection) 20.43.30 Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel) 20.44.17 Join karashata_ [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.44.27 Quit karashata (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20.44.47 Nick karashata_ is now known as karashata (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.48.11 Join karashata_ [0] (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.48.31 Quit karashata (Nick collision from services.) 20.48.36 Nick karashata_ is now known as karashata (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) 20.49.22 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") 20.50.58 Join ahti__ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 20.52.39 Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B44D97.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.59.35 Join webguest36 [0] (n=4648830b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-80d9aa09469e2301) 20.59.46 # hi 20.59.57 # how do i install theams 21.00.25 # have you read the manual/...it goes into this... 21.00.28 Quit webguest36 (Client Quit) 21.02.06 Quit {phoenix} ("Konversation terminated!") 21.02.07 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC23E.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.05.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.05.42 # Themes? 21.05.46 # Need help? 21.05.49 # I can help/. 21.06.02 # Photoguy: he already left.. 21.06.13 # Oh. 21.06.14 # Bye. 21.06.25 Quit ahti_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.10.05 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@e181139110.adsl.alicedsl.de) 21.12.23 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 21.14.14 Quit ahti__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.16.06 Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) 21.16.15 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 21.21.58 Join syn4pse [0] (n=chatzill@cpe-075-176-144-005.sc.res.rr.com) 21.36.09 Join ahti__ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 21.37.08 # hmm. Is there a way to invoke the menu in sudoku on the recorder? 21.37.53 # ah, found it 21.40.48 # is it reasonable to #ifdef a setting in the sudoku plugin that is only present on color targets? Or is it better to simply ignore the additional byte to keep the code cleaner? 21.42.50 # hey, I'm trying to build this cross-compiler thing and have some problems combining gcc. I have similar results as within this post: http://www.mail-archive.com/rockbox-dev@cool.haxx.se/msg03509.html 21.42.58 # bluebrother: Which setting is that? 21.44.50 # linuxstb: I'm currently looking at FS#8364. As that adds a setting it removed the HAVE_LCD_COLOR around the settings structure, thus adding the whole structure even on targets that don't have color 21.45.04 # Jabone: and you did use rockboxdev.sh to build the crosscompilers ? 21.45.09 # jabone: I got the same argument error when attempting it on 64bit ubuntu. I haven't gotten any further as I have it working on two other machines 21.46.07 # domonoky: yes I tried building manually and with rockboxdev.sh 21.46.13 Quit Photoguy ("Leaving") 21.46.30 # both ways gives the same error about these 3 argument things 21.47.08 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.") 21.47.35 # I have ubuntu intrepid beta. Does it have something to do with kernel libraries or so? 21.47.45 # you need extra flags 21.47.52 # that's what i have, too. 21.48.18 # "CPPFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE ./rockboxdev.sh" 21.48.35 # If 64 bit you need "CPPFLAGS=-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE -fno-stack-protector" ./rockboxdev.sh" 21.48.58 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@ppp-70-242-15-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) 21.49.01 # interesting. I have build the toolchain on F8 just fine 21.49.21 # this is for ubuntu 8.10, I din't know about F8 21.49.57 # well, the linked post says its failing on F8 due to the host gcc 21.50.32 # ah, I didn't read that - I just know that new ubuntu needs these additions 21.50.44 # syn4pse: (run as sudo of course) 21.51.05 # sure :) thanks a lot, i'll give that a try when i get back to that machine 21.54.22 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3fec7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3d6e6f0d4502e6f7) 21.55.12 # XavierGr: actually, I also think that we shouldn't force the spaces at the beginning and at the end of the scroll padding string. 21.55.39 # So once again: dear developers, please commit FS#9455 :-) 21.56.12 # XavierGr: what bin was bigger: with strncmp or the one with snprintf? 21.57.02 # Why add yet another setting? Can't a sensible default be picked... 21.57.22 # BigBambi: I'm trying now building cross compile with your additions :) 21.57.32 # * bluebrother still dislikes the possible user error of forgetting spacing spaces 21.57.51 # Jabone: I'm just repeating what others have said here :) 21.58.04 # ok :) 21.58.21 # thanks anyway 21.58.31 # It does work - I've used it on 8.10 myself, I just can't take credit :) 21.59.00 # does it read somewhere or only here? 21.59.19 # hmmm? 21.59.19 # bluebrother: there are more cases when the user can make something wrong. E.g. set both text and background color to black. Do we want to do something about it? No. And the scrolling setting is less critical. 21.59.25 Join allele [0] (n=allele@CPE-69-23-137-242.wi.res.rr.com) 22.00.52 # well, IMO we could want do something about the fg / bg issue. It's just the question how to do this best. 22.01.00 Quit ahti__ (Connection timed out) 22.01.03 # plus, someone needs to actually do it ;-) 22.02.50 Quit DataGhost (Nick collision from services.) 22.02.52 # bluebrother: but this will make the binary bigger. It's a high priority value which shouldn't be made bigger without a real need. Really, is the fact that we don't force the string to be space padded such a bad thing? 22.02.58 Join DataGhost [0] (i=dataghos@unaffiliated/dataghost) 22.03.40 # fml: Why does this need to be a setting? This seems a bit cowardly to me. 22.03.43 # alright, after going through other plugin source code I'm stumpped, I'm trying to use the scrollwheel of the sansa e200r for input. I defined the input and am using it as any other button would be used, but I get no response from it 22.03.48 # why would this make the binary bigger? 22.04.29 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 22.04.36 # currently you need to hold the default string and use it if the user hasn't set one. If you'd insert a space before and another after the padding string you could drop that and simply make no user string == empty string 22.04.43 # but still get a default padding 22.05.23 # rasher: because different users would like to have it differently! (It's always the same with settings :-) E.g. bluebrother seems to like the spaces that we have now. But I would much prefer a string with "+++" and some spaces around. 22.05.57 # am I supposed to add anything extra to the code than just a case for the constant set to BUTTON_SCROLL_FWD or BUTTON_SCROLL_BACK? 22.07.07 # fml: I dare say you're quite a minority (with no data to back it up, I admit). 22.07.27 # bluebrother: I don't quite get what you mean. But then you have another drawback: you don't get exactly what you set --> confusing 22.09.17 # rasher: separating running items with "+++" is rather common. And I think they do it with a good reason. "+++" catches the eye, it stops your eyes from sliding along the text thus serving the purpose well. Just spaces don't do it. Which was the source of confusion for the patch author (and me as well) 22.10.14 # rasher: I mean, look at the running line at the bottom of the screen where stock quotes are displayed (CNN & Co) 22.10.57 # fml: ok, DEFAULT_SCROLL_PADDING is handled by the settings stuff. But you still need to store that value somewhere. 22.11.15 # so I don't see a reason why using an empty value here should make the code bigger. 22.11.27 # allele: adding a case for the BUTTON_SCROLL_x into your button switch - case should be enough i think... 22.11.46 # you basically move those two spaces from the settings to the snprintf call 22.11.56 # fml: Just because it's used somewhere doesn't mean we have to add an option for everything 22.12.14 # I think this is well into the realm of unneeded fluff that simply doesn't deserve an option 22.12.25 # Add a few more spaces if it's not clear with the current default, sure 22.13.02 # rasher: sure. But would you accept to it being hard coded to "+++" with spaces? If not I'd love to have a setting for it. There are settings for less important thing IMHO, e.g. bidirectional scrolling 22.14.20 # fml: On the other hand, if there's to be a separation character it'd be better if it's something that can't be in a normal string. 22.14.22 # fml: Frankly, I think that if you want the +++, you should compile your own build. 22.14.30 # +++ is safe to use in a stock ticker because there isn't a stock named +++ 22.16.18 # Llorean: but there are far more strings with spaces than with +++ 22.16.35 # fml: Single spaces, sure. 22.16.48 # Llorean: so from that point of view, +++ is a better separator 22.16.52 # No, it's not. 22.16.58 # Multiple spaces is "nothing" 22.17.01 # +++ is "something" 22.17.12 # So saying it's "better", based on your opinion, sure. 22.17.20 # +++ requires you to wait longer until it has scrolled compared with " ". 22.17.23 # Saying it's better, based on a value call that people can have different opinions, not fine. 22.17.31 # Llorean: yes, and this something expilicitly tells you that the string is rolling over 22.17.49 # fml: Or it tells you "more stuff continues to roll by" 22.17.49 Join num1 [0] (n=brian@unaffiliated/num1) 22.17.51 # fml: Because people are too stupid to recognize the start of the string? 22.17.53 # Depending on how you look at it. 22.18.07 # If I see the start of the string, I know it's repeating. If i see more characters, I think "they're part of the string" 22.18.16 # Llorean: with spaces, you have to have a good eye to differentiate between the normal spaces and the "wrapping" spaces 22.18.19 # And possibly start wondering why my files are mistagged, if I'm "Joe Newguy" 22.18.36 # fml: Then add a few more spaces! 22.18.47 # fml: Why do you need to differentiate the spaces? The string starts over again RIGHT AFTER. 22.19.03 # I never said the current value is perfect, maybe it should be wider (I haven't checked) 22.19.14 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 22.19.24 # * Llorean thinks the current value, or possibly one only _slightly_ larger is fine, and would find any added characters or too many spaces annoying. 22.19.24 # But I strongly think that making it a setting is completely uncalled for 22.19.51 # rasher: this was the first step -- just make the gap bigger. But then you'd have to wait longer for the start of the string. With +++ you see t clearly and don't have to wait long 22.20.04 # I'd rather a setting if it's decided we _must_ have characters (so that I can not have characters) or if someone feels it needs to be more than 20 pixels. 22.20.38 # * Llorean doesn't know how long it is now, but doesn't need a large gap. 22.20.55 Nick HBK1 is now known as HBK (i=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) 22.21.00 # fml: you don't clearly see it.. you see *something* rolling by 22.21.49 # "+++" isn't a magic string that people will immediately recognize as "line ends" 22.21.53 # rasher: yes. But would you agree that for the comprehension, it's also important (or helpful) to know "where you are"? 22.22.10 Join Zarggg_ [0] (n=zarggg@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) 22.22.11 # I agree that some people might prefer the +++ thing or something else. But not enough that we need to add a setting just for them. 22.22.19 # fml: which the spaces do just as well 22.22.26 # maybe this is a issue for RSB ? :-) 22.23.41 # * Llorean certainly hopes not. 22.23.42 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC23E.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.23.48 # rasher: ok, I seem to be in the minority in the chat. But it's been several times that an idea that isn't accepted immediately is accepted after a while. You're just a "clique" supporting each other :-) 22.23.56 Quit Zarggg (Nick collision from services.) 22.23.58 Nick Zarggg_ is now known as Zarggg (n=zarggg@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) 22.24.00 # No need of RSB for iit 22.24.12 # fml: Remember, Rockbox is for the developers. 22.24.21 # If the "clique" of developers don't like it, it's probably gonna get rejected. 22.25.21 # Llorean: or just not accepted. But I'll wait for more developers' opinions :-) To reject it, you also have a well discussed opinion :-) 22.25.54 # fml: These days, "not accepted" is the same as rejected. 22.26.08 # We're closing many more tasks, sooner, if they aren't done in an acceptable way and work on them begins to stagnate. 22.28.25 # Llorean: I know, it's not democracy. You just have to have right friends ;-) 22.28.53 # No, you just have to have an idea that's actually good by the standards set for "good" 22.29.34 # If you're talking about adding another setting, and a chunk of code, you need a solid reason for it, and "something nobody's complained about in the last six years" is probably pushing it. 22.29.41 # * gevaerts reminds fml about the right to fork, which makes all democracy/dictatorship analogies worthless ;) 22.29.46 Quit allele ("Java user signed off") 22.29.50 # It seems to suggest that the issue you're trying to solve affects a very minor segment of the userbase. 22.32.42 # Llorean: they just don't know about it. But I won't try to persuade you anymore. If it's rejected then be it. What can I do (apart from a custom build which I don't like) 22.34.09 # fml: I said people haven't complained about it. If they don't *know* about it, how can it be a problem? 22.36.25 # gevaerts: Did you say that snprintf(str,n,"%s %x",str,x) failed for you? 22.37.13 # Yes. That was on ubuntu 8.10 I think. 22.37.30 # I've noticed it being used in FS#9455 22.42.13 # linuxstb: I also saw that and that looked a bit suspicious. But I didn't search any further. 22.44.13 Quit karashata ("I go, only to return again some time...") 22.45.30 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") 22.50.24 Join Horschti [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4E5D8.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.51.08 Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.) 22.51.35 # * amiconn wonders whether it's worth duplicating the arm libgcc division routines, in order to put them in IRAM on PP5002 22.52.03 # Then it would be possible to make APE -c1000 and -c2000 usable on both PP502x and PP5002 with a dual core split 22.52.15 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 22.53.52 Quit krazykit ("Connection reset by beer") 22.55.51 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 22.58.11 # does configfile_load ignore unknown entry lines? 22.58.18 Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 22.59.35 Quit culture (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.59.39 Join PaulJam [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3010.gwdg.de) 23.03.19 # linuxstb: do you have any more comments on FS#8364? I've ifdef-ed the remaining stuff and would like to commit (so we can close another task ;-) 23.05.00 # bluebrother: What did you decide to do with the config file? Keep in the colour-only setting, or #ifdef it? 23.05.11 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.05.43 # I put ifdefs around so it can be a config file containing one or both values, depending on the target 23.06.37 # and I made the marker "dot" grey instead of black so it distracts less. 23.06.57 Join funman [0] (n=fun@AAnnecy-257-1-23-63.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) 23.06.59 # The only comment I have is that sudoku.c seems to be getting big, and could do with splitting. But that's not really related to that patch. 23.08.20 # true. 23.12.00 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@d206-116-134-81.bchsia.telus.net) 23.13.54 # amiconn: Does the ipod1g2g not have an RTC, or is it just not implemented? 23.14.19 # It doesn't have a true RTC 23.14.39 Join ahti__ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 23.16.53 Join allele [0] (i=allele@136.wireless.uwp.edu) 23.17.18 # Ah, because it never powers off? 23.18.06 # I still am unable to use the scroll wheel as arguments in the buttons switch for plugins. do I need to include any other .h files besides plugin.h? 23.18.23 # talking about an RTC, I think the as3525's have it, but my clip doesn't show any time in the OF 23.18.58 # linuxstb: The PP5002 has some "RTC" registers, but those aren't really useful 23.20.13 # There are no month/year registers, and the day counter overflows rather quick (don't remember exactly, but iirc it was less than a year) 23.20.35 # bertrik: The DAX is the same - there's an RTC in the SoC, but no clock in the OF. 23.20.44 # So month/ year would need to be implemented in software. Also, the Menu+Play hardware reset also resets those RTC regs 23.21.03 # bertrik: RTC is only needed for date/time ? 23.21.18 # funman, yes 23.21.21 # allele: you should not include other (rockbox) headers into a plugin. what do you mean with "doesnt work" ? to debug it, you could just output what rb->button_get() return, when you use the wheel... 23.21.52 # Btw, an RTC is required for a proper VFAT implementation. All RTC-less targets violate the VFAT specs when writing 23.21.52 Join grndslm [0] (n=grndslm@24-116-87-97.cpe.cableone.net) 23.22.00 # allele: Are you using button_get() or button_status() ? 23.22.21 # I'm using button_status 23.22.24 # funman, heard some good news about the SDRAM :) 23.22.26 # is that my problem? 23.22.55 # bertrik: yeah ;) now to the last obstacle before the bootloader 23.22.57 # it compiles fine with the case for scrolling left or right, but when running the plugin there is no response 23.23.00 # Yes, I think so. IIRC, the wheel produces scroll events, rather than changing bits in button status. 23.23.18 # linuxstb: You think right ;) 23.23.22 # (there's no "press" or "release" concepts with scroll events, then just happen) 23.24.00 # ah well don't I feel silly :D 23.24.12 # It's not obvious. 23.24.56 # button_get() returns an integer as well, correct? 23.26.55 # allele: yes.. 23.27.14 # ok, we'll see how it compiles then :-D 23.29.48 Quit bmbl ("Woah!") 23.31.45 Quit stoffel_ ("leaving") 23.34.12 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) 23.34.14 Quit allele (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.35.09 Quit funman ("leaving") 23.39.39 # well, so what about #9455? I was sure that at one point the settings bloat argument would arise, but IMO adding more hard-coded spaces won't help much 23.40.39 # padding pixel spacing is also acceptable for me (as a setting) but making the 3 hard coded spaces to 6 won't solve a thing 23.41.24 # small displays on DAPs suffer in that respect, you always loose focus when you looking them from afar 23.42.28 # iRiver (and other examples) solved that by just terminating the last scroll segment with a blank line, but of course there are many others here with the opinion that 3 spaces are enough (which aren't on other cases) 23.43.18 Join ahti_ [0] (n=ahti@216.239.45.19) 23.43.22 # In the end it should be a setting because person A wants as few spaces as possible while person B wants more 23.44.57 # grrr. Anyone an idea how I can get this stupid mr100 into usb mode? The reboot always ends up in "Battery charge" 23.46.24 # XavierGr: Or we pick something somewhere between what person A wants, and what person B wants, and tell them both to shut up 23.48.15 # rasher: you know that this is not feasible 23.48.32 # and don't forget that the first try of that patch was exactly what you are telling 23.48.35 Quit ahti__ (Connection timed out) 23.48.38 # It's perfectly feasible. 23.48.40 # it just may not be ideal. 23.48.53 # I just hardcoded half the viewport as space which Llorean immediately disliked 23.49.06 # (i don't blame him of course) 23.49.07 # XavierGr: Because that's a very, very huge amount of space. 23.49.18 # bluebrother: have you tried booting first, and then pluging in? 23.49.29 # I find it quite ideal. It might not be *just perfect* for each individual user, but you can't just go making everything an option 23.49.52 # Llorean: well that seems to you a large space but depening on usage patterns, fonts, screen sizes etc it makes sence 23.50.05 # XavierGr: Only if you're using quite large fonts. 23.50.12 # * amiconn wonders what problem that patch is actually trying to solve 23.50.22 # Otherwise it means you have to *wait* for the front of your line to be visible again. 23.50.32 # amiconn: that when lines scroll forward you loose focus of start/end 23.50.36 # Personally I would like a bit less space ( a single space would be good); but I'm fine with 3 as well 23.50.43 # see 23.50.46 # amiconn: in some situations, it's difficult to notice when a scrolling string restarts, apparently 23.50.48 # that's what I am talking about 23.50.54 # But certainly not more... then you'd lose track of the line 23.50.57 # amiconn: The theory is that people can't tell when the line ends. 23.51.15 # XavierGr: Just because people do not agree on the ideal amount, doesn't mean we should automaticly make it a setting 23.51.25 # Or we'd have to do this for every little damn thing 23.51.35 # I think considering the _very_ low number of complaints we've had, we may already have a good balance amount. 23.51.44 # Maybe it should be an amount of pixels relative to the *height* of the font 23.51.57 # Rather than a fixed set of spaces. 23.52.33 # I just wanted to avoid breaking habits of other devs/people 23.52.37 # rasher: So, something like "2*height" rather than "2 spaces" 23.52.49 # everything you do in the end is disliked by someone 23.53.04 # XavierGr: Sure, but that doesn't mean we have to make it an option. 23.53.32 # Llorean: Maybe. I honestly don't know what a good amount is (and I don't have a target to test on) 23.53.51 # honestly though, I explicitly asked about it on the task, and the general notion was that it wouldn't hurt to be an option 23.54.13 # XavierGr: not everyone checks on every task all the time. I just noticed it today 23.54.28 # rasher: I think the ideal gap is "two spaces" or possibly "three spaces" but I recognize that with very narrow spaces it can be hard to spot when you've got two instead of just one for some people, so "two heights" or "three heights" might make a lot more sense. 23.54.29 # But if it's more of a problem on large fonts, maybe it makes more sense to have the amount be relative to the height of the font 23.54.40 # gevaerts: yep. Also tried plugging usb, then hard resetting the thing 23.54.43 # XavierGr: Did you post to the mailing list about it? 23.55.08 # Llorean: nope, but anyway I don't blame anyone, if the final notion is to avoid the setting 23.55.45 # it just feels weird, because I thought we were past the bloat-setting argument 23.56.03 # of course I can always ask and see what other devs say 23.56.17 # When did we move past the bloat-setting argument? 23.56.21 # And for which reason 23.56.49 # I personally still think we already have far too many settings. Not from a binsize point of view, but from a user interface one 23.57.03 # And I think both binsize and UI bloat are both valid considerations. 23.57.09 # Binsize may be loosened but it's certainly not gone. 23.57.15 # rasher: on the task, I think Llorean, JdGordon and bluebrother was not against it 23.57.28 # We can't lump everything in or one day we'll have to remove things. 23.57.30 # XavierGr: I only speak for myself 23.57.39 # XavierGr: I'm not for or against it as a setting. 23.57.47 # rasher: well we disagree on that, for me rockbox is settings, anything less is less appealing 23.57.57 # I'm just against arbitrary lengthening it beyond a small increase on what it is already. 23.58.07 # * amiconn thinks about those upcoming lowmem swcodec targets... 23.58.12 # rasher: and IMHO that's why Rockbox is so popular, because it has numerous settings 23.58.20 # something that no other firmware can achieve 23.58.38 # Forgetting binsize, the number of settings is already somewhat daunting 23.58.38 # XavierGr: But plenty of things are not settings, and never will be, but people want to customize. 23.58.40 # Like keymaps 23.58.50 # Just because something can be a setting doesn't mean we have to make it one. 23.58.55 # Llorean: I understand your view but #9455 is about that specifically, to make it larger than the average liking