--- Log for 17.03.109 Server: grisham.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 month and 10 days ago 00.03.41 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.06.43 Quit bluebrother ("leaving") 00.09.09 Quit Lss (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.10.04 # Well, i'll be talking to the right guy at sansa when I call tomorrow 00.10.29 # http://www.linkedin.com/pub/0/69a/915 00.10.52 Quit jordoex (Connection timed out) 00.11.56 # I also worked with domonoky to get a list of technical questions 00.11.56 # if you mean to ask them about rockbox, theres basically zero chance they'll help you 00.11.59 Join bazz [0] (i=[PUShrbX@r12.Millennium.Berkeley.EDU) 00.12.31 # saratoga-- # Wow, negativity... 00.13.05 # EvanCarroll: Are you prepared in case he asks you questions about Rockbox? 00.13.06 # is there a way to lock a player with rockbox? that is, player is on and playing but you need to enter some sort of password to unlock and be able to change anything 00.13.25 # EvanCarroll: If you get things wrong, it's quite possible you could do more harm than good. 00.13.33 # bazz: no 00.13.37 # EvanCarroll: I don't think i'm being negative 00.13.41 # domonsky's personal email if interested, I just want to start the dialog 00.13.45 # bazz: no. That's not possible on most players anyway, as they have a hardware reset feature 00.13.47 # Or, try to. 00.13.57 # bazz: you can put it into a semi-locked state though where you cant change the playing track or stop it though 00.14.26 # JdGordon|w: ohh, how do you do that? 00.14.40 # turn on party mode in the settings somewhere 00.14.56 # Llorean: http://rafb.net/p/QgPL6L40.html 00.14.59 # EvanCarroll: You're going to need to be able to at least tell him what Rockbox is, and probably describe some reasons why they should help beyond "I think, without any hard numbers, that it'll increase sales more than it'll increase costs" 00.15.52 # JdGordon|w: ohh cool, that's pretty much exactly my use case :) thanks 00.17.16 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@adsl-75-45-228-159.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) 00.18.25 # EvanCarroll: Those questions don't really tell me what you're going to say. They just tell me what you'll ask *after* he agrees to pass some questions on for you. 00.20.05 # I'm not even coming close to proclaiming i'm the most qualified person to start a conversation with Sansa, but I seem to be the person most willing to try. 00.20.44 # Sandisk seems willing to tolerate us right now, I don't see much sense in poking the bear here 00.21.06 # reminding them that we hack their players seems like a great way to get them to add encryption, like almost everyone else has 00.21.10 # EvanCarroll: You assume we haven't tried before? 00.21.24 Part bazz ("Leaving") 00.22.39 # saratoga: other than the companies with vested interests in online sales, how many players have encryption? Just the zune and ipod right? 00.23.10 # EvanCarroll: most of them have various levels of "encryption" or at least scramblings 00.23.40 # Sandisk is fairly special in that they don't seem interested in protecting their players 00.23.44 # EvanCarroll: I would just like to know how you intend to present "what Rockbox is" and "why you might be interested" 00.23.49 Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.24.03 # I think you should consider what is the best case here, they give you a parts list and a pin out? verses the worst case where they decide to finally get rid of people hacking their devices 00.24.06 # saratoga: the sansa v1s have pretty fancy encryption/signatures 00.24.19 Join Xerion [0] (n=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl) 00.24.37 # yeah but not the V2s, and Sandisk was nice enough to not bother fixing their broken encryption before dropping it entirely on all their new devices 00.24.43 # saratoga: I don't see any harm in calling attention to us, really. 00.24.47 # Yes, that's the worst case. 00.24.52 # saratoga: true 00.24.53 # But I doubt sandisk has "forgotten" we exist. 00.26.33 # EvanCarroll: Do you intend to present yourself as representing the project, or as being an interested fan? 00.26.45 # interested fan 00.27.15 # Would you mind answering some of my other questions, then? 00.27.35 # maybe this should go in community? 00.27.55 # amiconn: you can save a (presumably 1-cycle) instruction by making PFREAL_SHIFT something friendlier to SH-1, and there's a right shift by PFREAL_SHIFT per pixel rendered. i'm not sure what else you want to asm in the inner loop. you might also consider an asm fmul or fdiv, you could probably even get away with inlining it and still fit it in the plugin buffer, and if not, one or two other things can get shoved to the audio buffer 00.27.56 # saratoga: It's still Rockbox project stuff. 00.28.14 # saratoga: Community is for things that very much *aren't* Rockbox. Attempting relations with commercial manufacturers is still relevant to the project. 00.28.31 # ah ok, was thinking this channel was more development and support 00.28.41 Join amiconn_ [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 00.28.41 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 00.28.44 Join pixelma_ [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 00.28.44 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.) 00.28.56 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 00.28.59 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 00.29.55 # saratoga: No, it's really just "rockbox" and "not rockbox" to keep it clearer and easier. 00.30.06 # I'm simply going to represent myself as a fan who previously owned an e260v1, and also IT professional (but one without any experience in embedded design) that is interested in obtaining a player, preferably by Sansa, that supports Rockbox. 00.30.35 # is it possible to "svn up" from the old release branch to 3.2, or should I just check out new? 00.30.53 # pixelma: I think you have to check out since it's another folder, but I'm not sure. 00.31.09 # would have been my guess too 00.31.13 # pixelma: I think it is possible to switch to the new one, but I'm not sure how 00.31.29 # using "svn switch" 00.31.50 # I'll try to look it up thanks 00.32.01 Part toffe82_ 00.32.17 Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4d67c4cb0d7cbabf) 00.32.21 # the feature I'm most missing is folder-browsing, that is a must have for me, but I also think the rockbox UI is worlds ahead of the OF, even though it is lacking some of the graphics. 00.32.36 Quit itcheg (Client Quit) 00.32.50 Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-381f8592a3c9a7eb) 00.33.00 # EvanCarroll: Just saying "It's better" or "it has this feature I need" is probably not going to convince them it could offer a very significant audience increase. 00.33.02 # EvanCarroll: I agree. I just purcahsed a e280v1, and its amazing (my 1st time using rockbox) 00.33.44 # EvanCarroll: I'd imagine your best best is to be able to describe, well, most or all of the added featureset of Rockbox (or at least the majority of important ones) that Sandisk doesn't or won't offer, and why there's a community that will be completely unwilling to buy their players without those features (and why it would be reasonable to expect this community is large) 00.34.08 # Llorean: if the conversation permits, I agree. 00.34.22 # But I'm not sure it will, so the merits of flac and ogg are probably too nitty-gritty. 00.34.24 # And then of course, follow up with how little you actually are asking for from Sandisk (no support, no specific docs, just the occasional question passed on to their techs who may hopefully choose to answer it) 00.34.35 # EvanCarroll: What, exactly, are you expecting then? 00.34.45 # You're going to have to convince them. That means, in part, that you're going to have to lead the conversation. Not him. 00.35.08 # He doesn't want to help you, and has said so, meaning he's likely to ask a few simple questions (if any) then dismiss you politely. 00.35.12 # I'm not expecting him to have a 30minute debate about rockbox's feature set. 00.35.46 # EvanCarroll, they seem to know about flac and ogg, considering the OF in their newer players support them. 00.35.46 Quit Xerion (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.35.58 # EvanCarroll: I asked what you ARE expecting, not what you're not expecting. 00.36.15 Join Xerion [0] (n=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl) 00.36.18 # I just want him to know I bought a e260 before, and was very happy. now i have a v2, and I'm not happy, and I'm a fan of Rockbox -- which makes me happy, and in communication with the community which has requested some assistance with 3 technical issues. 00.36.25 # You can't just call and hope he'll "buy" Rockbox. You need to create the opportunity to "sell" it to him. That more or less means going in with a "pitch" in mind. 00.36.56 # EvanCarroll: So you're basically calling one of their significant technical staff to say "I, a single person, am less likely to buy from you again now"? 00.37.08 # Llorean: You're the worst troll ever. 00.37.42 Quit Xerion (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.37.58 # EvanCarroll: I'm asking serious questions here. I'm not trying to troll, I'm trying to vastly help improve your chances of actually accomplishing something. 00.38.12 Join Xerion [0] (n=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl) 00.38.42 # ah good, "svn switch svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/branches/v3_2" from my old release branch source tree seems to work :) - for further reference 00.38.52 # EvanCarroll: I've talked with RealMedia and discussed Rockbox on a significantly listened Open Source podcast. I do have some experience in this specific area (talking up Rockbox with real human beings, out loud) 00.38.59 # ok, well... then stop discouraging me, and if you care, give me your phone number and I'll do my best to conference call you in. 00.39.19 # i think discouraging you is a pretty good option since your plan seems completely stupid 00.39.20 # If asking you "what is your plan" is discouraging, maybe you should come up with a plan... 00.39.24 # if the conversation permits some higher level technical questioning 00.39.36 # "hmm i'll call up this guy who doesn't want to talk to me and say nothing he cares about" 00.39.51 Quit Xerion (Client Quit) 00.39.51 # You don't need technical questioning to sell it. What you need is "What will Sandisk gain, and why will it be worth the cost." 00.39.56 # "perhaps in wasting his time I will accomplish goals I haven't set out for myself" 00.40.04 # That includes explaining what Rockbox does, in a succinct but accurate manner. 00.41.41 # EvanCarroll: Remember, if he walks away from you feeling like you've wasted his time, he's much less likely to give anyone else his time to try again in the future. Whether you're presenting yourself as a fan or not, you need to be as good a salesman as possible. 00.42.15 Quit sarixe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.42.31 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 00.44.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.45.54 # * Llorean sends a fresh email to usb.org to ask if my other email was even received. 00.47.10 Quit sarixe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.47.52 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@jhulst.org) 00.49.38 Part avis 00.51.23 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") 00.57.10 Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) 00.57.31 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") 00.58.44 Quit BUMBACL0T (Connection timed out) 01.00.52 # * Llorean gets a response from usb.org 01.01.10 Quit n1s ("Lämnar") 01.02.00 # I'm not sure if my first email got through, but I've been told it's being passed up to (whoever received the email)'s director and we should have a response in the next day or so (and to feel free to contact them if we don't) 01.02.20 # "it" in "it's being.." being the text of it I attached to my inquiry as to whether the first on was received. 01.02.44 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 01.06.12 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) 01.07.06 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 01.10.03 Quit ender` (" I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time." So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.") 01.10.44 Join jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d154-20-29-131.bchsia.telus.net) 01.11.03 Quit Conic () 01.12.11 Quit dfkt (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01.12.34 Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 01.12.38 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) 01.14.22 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.18.24 # Llorean: what was the email about? 01.18.53 # JdGordon: To summarize - "Do we need a VID, and if we do, is it possible for us to get one since we aren't a legal entity?" 01.19.21 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 01.19.29 # ok 01.19.32 # Fill in to a greater length by discussing what Rockbox is, how we run on hardware that is unmodified physically, currently use the original VID/PID for such hardware, etc. 01.19.48 # that last bit is probably illegal? 01.20.11 # Not illegal. 01.20.20 # if we _had_ a USB license, we *might* be violating it. 01.21.17 # Since we don't, all we're really doing is being impolite (like spoofing a user agent string in a browser). But we would like to know what we're "supposed" to do so we can discuss if we can do it. 01.21.51 # ok 01.22.30 # The idea is that we might want to consider purchasing our own VID, and what came from that was "we should really find out if we should to conform properly, or if it's something entirely optional in our situation" 01.23.05 # * PSPdemon scrolls up to see what he missed 01.23.23 # PSPdemon: You really don't need to let us know about stuff like that. 01.24.52 # JdGordon: VIDs are (if we read correctly) a $2000 one-time fee if we don't care about licensing to use the USB logo as well. 01.26.43 # lol...habbit 01.33.23 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection) 01.37.03 Join JdGordon [0] (n=Miranda@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 01.38.45 Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 01.41.48 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@adsl24-106.her.forthnet.gr) 01.43.00 Quit pbxy ("Leaving") 01.51.48 Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) 01.51.59 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 01.52.48 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-097-240-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 01.54.09 # Looks like putting libtremor pcm buffer (the _ogg_calloc stuff in block.c) into IBSS_ATTR gives a juicy speedup on ipod 5g- from 45Mhz (35% boost) according to buffering thread info 'before' to 30Mhz (11% boost) [I'm using 24Mhz default clock] 01.54.57 # Changing vect_copy to just use memcpy instead seems to give about another 0.5MHz improvement 02.02.43 Quit yhuang ("Leaving") 02.06.09 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 02.08.00 Join saratoga_home [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c6fae05b416a54c6) 02.08.12 # stripewax: what file are you testing with? 02.08.25 Join midijunkie [0] (n=Miranda@pD954721F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 02.10.07 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 02.10.23 Join perrikwp [0] (i=18ac0c41@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4738142792d9cf2f) 02.10.39 # gevaerts: I've copied 30GB and counting using Toni's patch without a usb disconnect 02.10.51 # I just tried stock SVN and it died after 1 GB 02.11.41 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02.12.17 # saratoga - some random q5 vorbis file I had. Let me just try a more scientific test with test_codec .. 02.12.21 # stripwax: you too 02.12.40 # stripwax: those numbers seem off 02.12.57 # in what way? 02.13.14 # they're much worse then what codecperformancecomparison gives 02.14.00 # right, test_codec shows lower average clock and lower boost ratio than the buffering thread debug shows 02.14.10 # oh you're using the buffering screen 02.14.11 # above is from the debug screen not the test_codec 02.14.12 # yes 02.14.15 # yeah that makes sense 02.14.21 # it adds 10-15MHz 02.14.28 # yep, about that 02.14.37 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 02.14.41 # you need to reduce the update rate to benchmark with it 02.15.03 # i recommend once every 10 seconds or fewer 02.15.43 # Reduce the update rate in test_codec? (or on debug buffering screen?). I'm running test_codec as I type.. 02.16.19 # the debug screen, but only if you want to benchmark with it 02.16.34 # you also need to disable screen turn off so that backlight fading doesn't impact it 02.17.06 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) 02.17.09 # pixelma: when you get a chance, here's the "select buttons everywhere" version for ondio. short press on up, menu, or right is select, with the last one masked in the album view, of course. short press on power for menu, long press for quit 02.19.19 # since you also wanted to try putting the app menu on menu-button-long-press, you can do that just by removing the mappings that use BUTTON_MENU for ondio in pf_context_buttons 02.24.39 # Argh, I'm an idiot. test_codec never lies, the decode speed isn't changed by much it seems, will upload results anyway 02.25.29 # theres lots of speed up still possible in tremor for what its worth 02.25.30 Quit obo (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02.28.32 # gevaerts: all together thats 35GB or almost 2 hours of straight USB transfering without a reset, we should probably think about commiting Toni's patch, at least for Sansas 02.29.31 # saratoga - sure, thought I'd try something 'easy' (compared to pipelining onto cop say) 02.30.15 # stripwax: is ASM easy enough? the imdctlib could use some 02.30.41 # or you could look at the bitstream reader stuff, apparently the tremorlo version puts a lot of effort into rewriting that, and its quite fast 02.30.45 # saratoga_home: So now we're just down to "charging" and "iTunes is broken" as potential roadblocks for it in 3.3 02.30.46 # ? 02.31.04 # Llorean: well for me and Toni at least 02.31.12 # since it seems to resolve our problems 02.31.33 # though maybe more testing is needed to be sure 02.31.58 # Well, we have 3 more months now 02.33.07 # saratoga - imdctlib has loads of asm already; thought that was pretty good now? But didn't know tremolo had bitstream modifications; I have a local build of that somewhere (but it's a branch off a fork off an old version iirc, so probably a pain to integrate) 02.33.32 # stripwax: you seen FS#9882 - Speed-up mod for large block (Vorbis) ? 02.34.16 # stripewax: yes its non-trivial to integrate, but the underlying idea is probably worthwhile 02.35.23 # saratoga - I did see that patch, but not the recent versions (I don't use q1 personally but see it's been updated somewhat). Thanks, will check it out 02.35.40 # it touches some of the same code right? 02.37.01 # sure looks like it - right, kill my patch and I'll look here instead :) 02.37.36 # well if you're familar with that part of vorbis, feel free to review and commit :) 02.37.53 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~•~)?") 02.38.12 # it seems both patches are probably worth having 02.38.35 # also if you have any input about mallocing in IRAM, let me know 02.41.00 # i think we could probably shave another 4-5 MHz off Tremor's runtime on ARM7/9, even without COP 02.42.20 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 02.42.54 # Indeed: it looks like the patch doesn't use any of the new iram buffer in block.c itself (just allocates it and adds it to the dsp state!). only pcm buffer in iram seems to be the one in synthesis.c - so agree, both patches probably worth having. I'll take a look at combining 02.43.32 # stripwax: do you have some idea when these different buffers are used? 02.44.00 # * kugel is curious about the binsize delta of his last commit 02.44.15 # we save some IRAM with the malloc patch in the high bitrate case, but without saving some IRAM in the low bitrate case its all rather pointless 02.44.30 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.45.20 # The buffers in synthesis.c contain the output of the inverse mdct and the buffers in block.c contain the previous output from the previous block so we can overlap/add (and then the synthesis.c buffers get memcpy'd over and pointers flipped.. I think..) 02.46.30 # actually, presumably the memcpy is instead of flipping pointers.. 02.48.09 # ok so thats obviously not going to be bitrate dependent 02.49.31 # Right - and the logic looks like it's mostly there for it to work without having to do a memcpy, but then we go and do a memcpy anyway. I think we could just swap.. 02.51.40 # Unfortunately, now is not the time to try that - it'll have to wait unfortunately. Goodnight.. 02.51.59 Quit saratoga_home ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 02.54.10 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.244.200) 02.54.45 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) 02.55.48 Quit stripwax ("http://miranda-im.org") 02.56.38 # :P 02.56.42 # :? I mean 02.57.07 # amiconn: ping 02.58.01 # I'm not surprised about the general decrease, but about the increase for player and ondios :S 02.58.17 Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d65c99bf586cb7ed) 02.59.09 # is there a way to turn the e200 simulator 90 degrees? 02.59.45 # PSPdemon: rotate your pc monitor 03.00.03 Join JdGordon_ [0] (n=jonno@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 03.01.50 # kugel, lol.... how about a more reasonable way? 03.02.05 # Edit the source code. 03.02.18 # it's reasonable. it's perfectly reversible too :) 03.02.57 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03.03.02 # * kugel wouldn't care to code just for playing doom/watching a video with mpegplayer with rotated screen just once 03.03.20 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean) 03.04.24 Join JdGordon__ [0] (n=jonno@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 03.05.44 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@ppp-69-238-94-58.dsl.frs2ca.pacbell.net) 03.08.22 Join BUMBACL0T [0] (n=ORF@unaffiliated/bumbacl0t) 03.10.06 Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 03.10.13 # i think overlap/add windowing should probably be added to the codec lib 03.10.23 # just write one fast version and use it on all the transform codecs 03.10.35 # then move the whole imdct/windowing stage to COP 03.10.43 # in one fast swoop 03.12.43 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.13.00 Join Jats [0] (n=jats@66-188-119-234.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) 03.13.35 # also if someone who is familiar with pcm playback on PP wants to make pcmbuf_insert callable from the COP I have all sorts of ideas 03.14.49 Quit Aurix_Lexico ("Leaving.") 03.16.12 Quit Strife89 ("Night all.") 03.16.26 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 03.17.45 Quit JdGordon_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.24.46 Join JdGordon|zzz [0] (n=jonno@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 03.29.07 Join JdGordon|afk [0] (n=jonno@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 03.32.16 Quit taylor_ ("Leaving") 03.33.28 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c-98-203-252-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 03.33.28 *** Alert Mode level 1 03.33.28 DBUG Enqueued KICK JdGordon__ 03.33.28 DBUG Enqueued KICK JdGordon|zzz 03.33.28 *** Alert Mode level 2 03.33.28 DBUG Enqueued KICK JdGordon|afk 03.33.28 DBUG Enqueued KICK JdGordon 03.33.28 *** Alert Mode level 3 03.33.35 # kugel: objdiff on ondio sp shows new symbols gwps_fix_statusbars, gwps_leave_wps, and wpsbars in r20329 take 44, 28, and 4 bytes respectively, and viewportmanager_draw_statusbars grows by 12B. this is offset by a 52B savings in gui_wps_show. 03.34.31 # Unhelpful: there's a good deal of removed duplicated code in gui_wps_show though 03.35.51 # why is the saving so low compared to arm/cf? and why does it still yield a effective saving on other sh targets? that's weird 03.36.42 # well, those mono displays doesn't have backdrops, which explains the lower saving 03.38.20 # fix_wps_bars appears to be the culprit, it appears in r20327 on recorderv2, costing 48B, and is removed with your commit, but doesn't appear at all on ondio sp... is it not part of the build on that target, or does some weird target detail get it inlined? 03.39.27 # fix_wps_bars == gwps_fix_statsbars (basically, just the parameter is removed) 03.40.19 # well, actually, if it's in both builds, and the same size, objdiff won't report a symbol 03.40.39 # and it has no return value anymore (since I made wpsbars global in the file) 03.40.54 Quit JdGordon__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.41.23 # it's not exactly the same, but 4byte difference sounds reasonable 03.42.31 # nm shows it's not in the r20327 rockbox.elf on ondio sp 03.42.59 Quit JdGordon|zzz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03.43.29 *** Alert Mode OFF 03.44.35 # Unhelpful: you mean fix_statusbars is in neither revision for the ondio? 03.44.48 # that's sounds like a bug to me, actually 03.44.52 # fix_wps_bars is in neither revision for the ondio 03.45.50 # it can't be inlined I think. It's called from viewport.c too 03.45.55 # gwps_fix_statusbars is in r20329 for sp 03.46.30 # hm, maybe it was inlined before my commit? 03.46.31 Join edrews [0] (i=ad4f69ac@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-212e976190620236) 03.47.20 Quit JdGordon|afk (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03.48.07 # possibly, and if it was specialized substantially while inlining it, it might have been smaller inlined... 03.50.55 # Unhelpful: ok, that definitely explains the red delta on the player (it was a one liner returning a constant before), but not really for the ondio 03.51.17 Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a3fbccdf05169eba) 03.51.49 # ...i didn't look at player! ;) 03.52.36 # yea, I know, it puzzles me 03.52.58 # I'm not sure why it was (apparently) inlined on the ondio before, but not on the recorder 03.54.50 # hm, ok, I guess why it's a red delta on the ondio. but why isn't it for the other mono (and/or sh) targets!? 03.55.27 # i'll pastebin the objdiff reports for you :) 03.57.49 # ondio: http://pastie.org/418364 recorder v2: http://pastie.org/418365 03.58.27 # Unhelpful: will look soon, I'm busy with fixing reds now :S 04.12.29 Quit jhulst_ ("ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net") 04.15.26 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@jhulst.org) 04.16.55 Quit edrews ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 04.17.16 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.17.26 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-98-118-72-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 04.20.03 Join blkhawk- [0] (n=blkhawk@g226207209.adsl.alicedsl.de) 04.24.49 Join planetbeing [0] (n=planetbe@c-71-236-164-204.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 04.25.57 Quit timc (Connection timed out) 04.26.30 Join timc [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83) 04.36.10 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.37.28 Quit blkhawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.37.48 Quit timc (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.37.48 NSplit grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 04.37.48 Quit Llorean (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.37.48 Quit wincent_balin (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.37.48 Quit Unhelpful (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.37.48 Quit rvvs89 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.38.01 Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g226207209.adsl.alicedsl.de) 04.38.43 NHeal grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 04.38.43 NJoin timc [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83) 04.38.43 NJoin Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean) 04.38.43 NJoin wincent_balin [0] (n=wincent@host-091-097-030-116.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 04.38.43 NJoin Unhelpful [0] (n=Militant@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 04.38.43 Join rvvs89 [0] (n=ivo@pdpc/supporter/base/rvvs89) 04.39.30 Quit Llorean (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04.40.05 Quit Beta2K (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04.40.17 # Unhelpful: weird, it seems fix_wps_bars was inlined on the ondio, but not recorder. 04.42.01 # quick question.... 04.42.03 # Add MD5 checksum for v1.01.22 of the Fuze original firmware. 04.42.14 # is that for v.1.01.22a as well? 04.42.45 # sure, it's the same file 04.42.52 # thanks 04.43.08 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") 04.43.35 # PSPdemon: there's no regional differences in the firmware files. Solely the filename (the suffix specifically) makes up the different feature set 04.44.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.49.33 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 04.50.31 # kugel: ondio only has one display, recorder has 2... so it makes sense 04.50.34 Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 04.50.50 Quit Rob2222 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit PSPdemon (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit Foxx- (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit Tristan (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit Galois (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit scorche|sh (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit wincent_balin (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit Unhelpful (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit timc (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit rvvs89 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.50.50 Quit ChanServ (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04.51.05 NJoin Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCD450.dip.t-dialin.net) 04.51.05 NJoin PSPdemon [0] (n=PSPdemon@c-66-177-37-36.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 04.51.05 NJoin Foxx- [0] (n=Foxx@pool-141-157-246-7.ny325.east.verizon.net) 04.51.05 NJoin Tristan [0] (i=tristan@i.dont.want.to.die.virgin.net.in) 04.51.05 NJoin Galois [0] (i=djao@efnet-math.org) 04.51.05 NJoin scorche|sh [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 04.51.09 # recorder has 2? oh 04.51.22 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-71-174-7-234.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 04.51.30 NJoin ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) 04.51.30 NJoin rvvs89 [0] (n=ivo@pdpc/supporter/base/rvvs89) 04.51.30 NJoin Unhelpful [0] (n=Militant@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 04.51.30 NJoin wincent_balin [0] (n=wincent@host-091-097-030-116.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 04.51.30 NJoin timc [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83) 04.51.30 Mode "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net 04.52.09 # the c200 yellow is plainly stupid 04.52.18 Quit Jats (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04.53.45 Ctcp Ignored 4 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 04.53.45 # * JdGordon always likes it when large patches stay in sync after weeks of not being touched 04.55.19 # * kugel always dislikes when big patches cause big trouble on the build table 04.55.24 # but it needs to be done 04.55.59 # haha wow... lots of red :D 04.56.07 # thats why you build locally first 04.56.16 # btw.... hello pot :D 04.57.46 # JdGordon: Why do we have a build table if I'm supposed to build everything locally first? 04.58.33 # I know.. i was joking... 04.59.32 # ok :) 05.00.22 # kugel: im not sure i agree with http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/gui/viewport.c?r1=20328;r2=20329;pathrev=20329 05.00.29 # was it actually needed? 05.02.44 # JdGordon: the event knows best when to "re-fix" the statusbars, not the wps 05.03.24 # it saves a call too. Only in the event handle, and once at entering the wps is needed 05.03.54 # hmm... ok, i guess its fine.. I just checked, for some reason i thought that wps call would redraw the bar 05.04.05 # wtf is up with settings_list.c? 05.04.35 # in your local repo? 05.04.42 Quit Horscht ("Verlassend") 05.04.52 # yeah, unrelated patch is causing it to not compile 05.05.00 # I get that problem too often, there's a dependency problem anywhere. 05.05.09 # LANG_SORT_INTERPRET_NUMBERS undeclared! 05.05.49 # for now, just rm -fr * helps 05.06.48 # I think those auto-generated lang.* files aren't handled properly. 05.06.59 Join edrews [0] (n=ad4f69ac@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2c8b8ff60cf71d91) 05.07.13 # bah yeah, looks like thats the problem 05.07.21 # wierd, make veryclean didnt fix it... 05.07.26 Quit edrews (Client Quit) 05.07.28 # can you buzz Zagor about it? 05.07.36 # Or you? ;) 05.07.38 # * JdGordon has fallen out of timezone alignment :( 05.07.51 # well, it's not worse than before 05.07.59 # with your timezone I mean 05.08.14 # * JdGordon moves to other chan 05.12.59 # if i may ask how much ram does the E200's have? 05.13.04 # 32mb 05.13.08 # ahh 05.13.13 # thanks JdGordon 05.17.55 # anyone wanna guess where/how the runtime data magic happens? 05.19.42 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05.19.55 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-71-174-13-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 05.22.47 # JdGordon: the recently added thing is done by comparing the commit id 05.23.08 Join crashd [0] (i=foobar@lostnode.org) 05.23.14 # rating is done through tags, I guess. And playcount is a separate field in the db files IIRC 05.23.27 # i meant the gather runtime data.. playcount.... i found it 05.23.38 # ... in tagtree.c not tagcahce.c where i was looking 05.23.53 Join gregorovius [0] (n=diego@190.55.80.21) 05.24.12 # runtime data also includes rating and recently added 05.25.35 # "Too many dirs open" :< 05.25.49 Quit crashd_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05.26.04 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe) 05.26.52 # do you have to load a track in the database tree for it to be picked up by the db? 05.27.34 # I think so, yes. 05.28.32 # im not so sure.... oh well... run from the db just in case 05.29.22 # * JdGordon wonders (rather pointlessly) if we should have a single cache of the last X previously played tracks and have scrobbler/db/etc talk to that instead of duplicating logic... 05.32.18 Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm246.delta91.maxonline.com.sg) 05.47.46 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05.48.55 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-98-118-69-16.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 05.49.54 Quit wincent_balin (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05.52.17 Join gartral [0] (n=gareth@adsl-75-33-64-115.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) 05.52.27 Part gartral 05.55.36 Quit gregorovius () 06.02.53 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") 06.04.45 Part toffe82 06.10.06 Quit planetbeing () 06.11.04 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9/2009020407]") 06.24.12 Quit z35 ("Leaving") 06.41.05 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.44.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.50.14 Quit lightbulbjim (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 NSplit grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 06.50.14 Quit perrikwp (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit sarixe (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jordoex (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit R31D (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit markun (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jon-kha (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Slasheri (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit homielowe (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Unhelpful (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit timc (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit rvvs89 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit ChanServ (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Foxx- (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Rob2222 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Galois (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit scorche|sh (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Tristan (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit PSPdemon (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit bzed (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit xSlack_ (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit chrippa (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 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(grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit at0m (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jamiem (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit avacore (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Kohlrabi (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Dieterbe (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit JdGordon (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit lymeca (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit krazykit (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit n17ikh (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit DataGhost (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Lss (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit freqmod_qu (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit bubsy (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit HellDragon (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jordan` (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit keby (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit BigBambi (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit maraz (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit crwl (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Hadaka (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit J-23 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit lastebil (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit parafin (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit Jrockz (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit JdGordon|w (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit rasher (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit yosafbridge (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit liiwi (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit byteframe (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jhMikeS (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit daurn| (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit FOAD (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit killan (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit buk__ (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit scorche (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit lostlogic (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit rwong (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit r4v5 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit flux (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit StealthyXIIGer (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit efyx (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit pabs (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit DaCapn (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit jhulst (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit EvanCarroll (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit fred_2 (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 Quit feisar (grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06.50.14 NHeal grisham.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 06.50.14 NJoin ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) 06.50.14 NJoin byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-98-118-69-16.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 06.50.14 NJoin Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm246.delta91.maxonline.com.sg) 06.50.14 NJoin homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe) 06.50.14 NJoin crashd [0] (i=foobar@lostnode.org) 06.50.14 NJoin timc [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83) 06.50.14 NJoin Unhelpful [0] (n=Militant@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 06.50.14 NJoin rvvs89 [0] (n=ivo@pdpc/supporter/base/rvvs89) 06.50.14 NJoin scorche|sh [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 06.50.14 NJoin Galois [0] (i=djao@efnet-math.org) 06.50.14 NJoin Tristan [0] (i=tristan@i.dont.want.to.die.virgin.net.in) 06.50.14 NJoin Foxx- [0] (n=Foxx@pool-141-157-246-7.ny325.east.verizon.net) 06.50.14 NJoin PSPdemon [0] (n=PSPdemon@c-66-177-37-36.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 06.50.14 NJoin Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCD450.dip.t-dialin.net) 06.50.14 NJoin blkhawk [0] (n=blkhawk@g226207209.adsl.alicedsl.de) 06.50.14 NJoin jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@jhulst.org) 06.50.14 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 06.50.14 NJoin BUMBACL0T [0] (n=ORF@unaffiliated/bumbacl0t) 06.50.14 NJoin perrikwp [0] (i=18ac0c41@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4738142792d9cf2f) 06.50.14 NJoin sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 06.50.14 NJoin gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 06.50.14 NJoin jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d154-20-29-131.bchsia.telus.net) 06.50.14 NJoin pixelma [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 06.50.14 NJoin amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 06.50.14 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 06.50.14 NJoin lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 06.50.14 NJoin deweycooter [0] (n=chatzill@64.91.195.155) 06.50.14 NJoin __lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@94.50.160.53) 06.50.14 NJoin Chex [0] (n=Stefan@bas1-montreal48-1176173096.dsl.bell.ca) 06.50.14 NJoin EvanCarroll [0] (n=ecarroll@12.28.61.169) 06.50.14 NJoin r4v5 [0] (n=r4v5@glasnost.us) 06.50.14 NJoin blithe [0] (n=blithe@blakesmith.me) 06.50.14 NJoin flux [0] (i=flux@jolt.modeemi.cs.tut.fi) 06.50.14 NJoin Tuplanolla [0] (n=jani@unaffiliated/tuplanolla) 06.50.14 NJoin dmb [0] (n=dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) 06.50.14 NJoin freqmod_qu [0] (i=quasselg@dhcp208-240.ed.ntnu.no) 06.50.14 NJoin StealthyXIIGer [0] (n=stealthy@c-68-62-18-116.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 06.50.14 NJoin daurn| [0] (n=daurnima@ppp118-208-164-190.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net) 06.50.14 NJoin bubsy [0] (i=Bubsy@81-31-244-19.net.nc-systems.no) 06.50.14 NJoin AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) 06.50.14 NJoin R31D [0] (n=email@hlfxns01bbf-142177228071.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net) 06.50.14 NJoin efyx [0] (n=efyx@lap34-1-82-224-140-171.fbx.proxad.net) 06.50.14 NJoin nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-24-6-174-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 06.50.14 NJoin xSlack_ [0] (n=brett@173-17-70-78.client.mchsi.com) 06.50.14 NJoin xSlack [0] (n=brett@173-17-70-78.client.mchsi.com) 06.50.14 NJoin SUSaiyan [0] (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl) 06.50.14 Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@Wikipedia/HellDragon) 06.50.14 Mode "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net 06.50.14 NJoin agaffney [0] (n=agaffney@gentoo/developer/agaffney) 06.50.14 NJoin chrippa [0] (n=chrippa@evangelion.se) 06.50.14 NJoin jordan` [0] (n=jordan@ALagny-154-1-5-85.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr) 06.50.14 NJoin FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 06.50.14 NJoin ze [0] (i=ze@76.91.72.105) 06.50.14 NJoin killan [0] (n=nnscript@c-02fc70d5.06-397-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) 06.50.14 NJoin thegeek [0] (n=nnscript@s243b.studby.ntnu.no) 06.50.14 NJoin parafin [0] (i=parafin@paraf.in) 06.50.14 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) 06.50.14 NJoin keby [0] (n=keby@cpe-24-243-7-225.satx.res.rr.com) 06.50.14 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) 06.50.14 NJoin lightbulbjim [0] (n=jim@203.171.93.108.static.rev.aanet.com.au) 06.50.14 NJoin advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 06.50.14 NJoin tarbo [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo) 06.50.14 NJoin synergist [0] (i=christop@cant.be-arsed.co.uk) 06.50.14 NJoin maraz [0] (i=maraz@xob.kapsi.fi) 06.50.14 NJoin HBK [0] (n=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) 06.50.14 NJoin crwl [0] (n=crawlie@a91-154-18-71.elisa-laajakaista.fi) 06.50.14 NJoin dionoea [0] (n=dionoea@yop.chewa.net) 06.50.14 NJoin Jrockz [0] (n=jrockZ@pool-96-238-170-9.rcmdva.east.verizon.net) 06.50.14 NJoin suom1 [0] (i=markus@viitamaki.net) 06.50.14 NJoin JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b0055@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ca84230bccdae510) 06.50.14 NJoin krazykit [0] (n=kkit@adsl-69-219-239-157.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) 06.50.14 NJoin buk__ [0] (n=buk@fac34-2-82-228-151-145.fbx.proxad.net) 06.50.14 NJoin lucent [0] (i=lucent@unaffiliated/shadows) 06.50.14 NJoin _Auron_ [0] (n=DarkAuro@ppp-70-249-146-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) 06.50.14 NJoin webmind [0] (n=webmind@shell.puscii.nl) 06.50.14 NJoin n17ikh [0] (n=n17ikh@130.127.74.89) 06.50.14 NJoin tmzt [0] (n=tmzt@adsl-76-253-134-255.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net) 06.50.14 NJoin gibbon_ [0] (i=gibbon_@could.become.a.servant4you.org) 06.50.14 NJoin kkurbjun [0] (n=kkurbjun@c-24-9-80-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 06.50.14 NJoin bzed [0] (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de) 06.50.14 NJoin goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 06.50.14 NJoin markun [50] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun) 06.50.14 NJoin BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 06.50.14 NJoin orsonj [0] (n=orson@b22222.bookstore.usu.edu) 06.50.14 NJoin fxb__ [0] (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 06.50.14 NJoin preglow [0] (i=thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow) 06.50.14 NJoin DataGhost [0] (n=dataghos@unaffiliated/dataghost) 06.50.14 NJoin Kohlrabi [0] (n=Kohlrabi@frustrum.nosebud.de) 06.50.14 NJoin sbhsu [0] (n=a6530466@Zion.dorm.au.edu.tw) 06.50.14 NJoin jon-kha [0] (i=jon-kha@kahvi.eu.org) 06.50.14 NJoin Hadaka [0] (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) 06.50.14 NJoin Slasheri [0] (i=miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) 06.50.14 Join soap [50] (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 06.50.14 NJoin scorche [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 06.50.14 NJoin pabs [0] (n=pabs@xor.pablotron.org) 06.50.14 NJoin J-23 [0] (n=zelazko@unix.net.pl) 06.50.14 NJoin at0m [0] (n=at0m@78-20-136-118.access.telenet.be) 06.50.14 NJoin avacore [0] (i=nobody@1008ds1-rdo.0.fullrate.dk) 06.50.14 NJoin Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 06.50.14 NJoin Dieterbe [0] (n=Dieterbe@213.219.137.46.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) 06.50.14 NJoin alexbobp [0] (n=alex@ppp-70-253-65-66.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) 06.50.14 NJoin jamiem [0] (n=jm|home@dilbert.jamiem.com) 06.50.14 NJoin courtc [0] (n=court@unaffiliated/courtc) 06.50.14 NJoin kadoban [0] (n=mud@cpe-24-93-17-195.rochester.res.rr.com) 06.50.14 NJoin shodanX [0] (n=shodanX@jazz.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) 06.50.14 NJoin Ridayah [0] (n=ridayah@173-19-228-175.client.mchsi.com) 06.50.14 NJoin tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 06.50.14 NJoin shadearg [0] (i=arg@ipv4.panoptix.net) 06.50.14 NJoin rphillips [0] (n=rphillip@unaffiliated/rphillips) 06.50.14 NJoin DaCapn [0] (i=dacapn@using.your.wireless-inter.net) 06.50.14 Join rasher [50] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) 06.50.14 NJoin lostlogic [50] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic) 06.50.14 NJoin jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 06.50.14 NJoin lastebil [0] (n=truck@cube.lomal.la) 06.50.14 NJoin yosafbridge [0] (n=yosafbri@ludios.net) 06.50.14 NJoin fred_2 [0] (i=fred@hpc-cluster.hamburgnet.de) 06.50.14 NJoin liiwi [0] (i=liiwi@idle.fi) 06.50.14 NJoin rwong [0] (n=ricky@www.roflwaffle.com) 06.50.14 NJoin feisar [0] (i=jljhook@ihq.in) 06.50.14 Quit Zambezi (SendQ exceeded) 07.15.22 DEBUG EOF from server (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545) 07.15.22 *** Cleanup 07.15.22 *** Cleanup 07.15.22 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.15.22 *** Exit 07.15.24 *** Started Dancer V4.16 07.15.24 *** Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 07.15.24 *** Logfile for #rockbox started 07.15.25 *** Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag' 07.15.25 Mode "logbot :+i" by logbot 07.15.25 Join logbot [0] (n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e83ef25e178980f5) 07.15.25 Join arcstech [0] (n=arcstech@206.251.250.223) 07.15.25 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-98-118-69-61.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 07.15.25 Join Kopfgeldjaeger [0] (n=nicolai@monitor-mode-enabled-on-mon0.phy0.de) 07.15.25 Join bs66_1 [0] (n=sysuser@95.209.57.183) 07.15.25 Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm246.delta91.maxonline.com.sg) 07.15.25 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe) 07.15.25 Join crashd [0] (i=foobar@lostnode.org) 07.15.25 Join timc [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83) 07.15.25 Join Unhelpful [0] (n=Militant@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 07.15.25 Join rvvs89 [0] (n=ivo@pdpc/supporter/base/rvvs89) 07.15.25 Join @ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) 07.15.25 Join scorche|sh [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 07.15.25 Join Galois [0] (i=djao@efnet-math.org) 07.15.25 Join Tristan [0] (i=tristan@i.dont.want.to.die.virgin.net.in) 07.15.25 Join Foxx- [0] (n=Foxx@pool-141-157-246-7.ny325.east.verizon.net) 07.15.25 Join PSPdemon [0] (n=PSPdemon@c-66-177-37-36.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 07.15.25 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCD450.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.15.25 Join blkhawk [0] (n=blkhawk@g226207209.adsl.alicedsl.de) 07.15.25 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@jhulst.org) 07.15.25 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 07.15.25 Join BUMBACL0T [0] (n=ORF@unaffiliated/bumbacl0t) 07.15.25 Join perrikwp [0] (i=18ac0c41@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4738142792d9cf2f) 07.15.25 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 07.15.25 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 07.15.25 Join jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d154-20-29-131.bchsia.telus.net) 07.15.25 Join pixelma [50] (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 07.15.25 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 07.15.25 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 07.15.25 Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 07.15.25 Join deweycooter [0] (n=chatzill@64.91.195.155) 07.15.25 Join __lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@94.50.160.53) 07.15.25 Join Chex [0] (n=Stefan@bas1-montreal48-1176173096.dsl.bell.ca) 07.15.25 Join EvanCarroll [0] (n=ecarroll@12.28.61.169) 07.15.25 Join r4v5 [0] (n=r4v5@glasnost.us) 07.15.25 Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@blakesmith.me) 07.15.25 Join flux [0] (i=flux@jolt.modeemi.cs.tut.fi) 07.15.25 Join Tuplanolla [0] (n=jani@unaffiliated/tuplanolla) 07.15.25 Join dmb [0] (n=dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) 07.15.25 Join freqmod_qu [0] (i=quasselg@dhcp208-240.ed.ntnu.no) 07.15.25 Join StealthyXIIGer [0] (n=stealthy@c-68-62-18-116.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 07.15.25 Join daurn| [0] (n=daurnima@ppp118-208-164-190.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net) 07.15.25 Join bubsy [0] (i=Bubsy@81-31-244-19.net.nc-systems.no) 07.15.25 Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) 07.15.25 Join R31D [0] (n=email@hlfxns01bbf-142177228071.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net) 07.15.25 Join efyx [0] (n=efyx@lap34-1-82-224-140-171.fbx.proxad.net) 07.15.25 Join nuonguy [0] 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(n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 07.15.25 Join shadearg [0] (i=arg@ipv4.panoptix.net) 07.15.25 Join rphillips [0] (n=rphillip@unaffiliated/rphillips) 07.15.25 Join DaCapn [0] (i=dacapn@using.your.wireless-inter.net) 07.15.25 Join rasher [50] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) 07.15.25 Join lostlogic [50] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic) 07.15.25 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 07.15.25 Join lastebil [0] (n=truck@cube.lomal.la) 07.15.25 Join yosafbridge [0] (n=yosafbri@ludios.net) 07.15.25 Join fred_2 [0] (i=fred@hpc-cluster.hamburgnet.de) 07.15.25 Join feisar [0] (i=jljhook@ihq.in) 07.15.25 Join rwong [0] (n=ricky@www.roflwaffle.com) 07.15.25 Join liiwi [0] (i=liiwi@idle.fi) 07.22.11 Join Zambezi [0] (i=Zulu@bnc.dotbnc.se) 07.29.31 # 66139 is very fine points ;-) 07.29.48 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.30.09 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-71-174-3-114.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 07.39.30 # JdGordon: re. your compiling problem - you probably suffer the same as pondlife yesterday (around 13:00 in yesterday's log) 07.40.46 # * JdGordon has a look 07.41.31 # no, i tinhk its a different problem 07.41.54 # the Ondios' statusbar is different to the Recorders' in that it doesn't show the clock (and some charger status?) and has a different symbold for disk activity. The Player's status "bar" is a different beast... 07.42.31 # pixelma: i doubt anything has changed, but could you give 9795 a try on hwcodec again please? 07.42.31 # symbol too 07.42.40 # just incase it magically started working 07.42.59 Quit StealthyXIIGer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.43.30 # probably not until the evening 07.44.35 # thats fine, im heading to bed soon anyway 07.49.31 # JdGordon: Ehum, the recorders never had two displays!? 07.50.48 # doesnt the rec have a remote lcd? 07.51.03 # no 07.51.18 # It has a remote, but without lcd 07.51.32 # ah, doh, ok 07.51.52 # So far only the irivers and iaudios have lcd remotes (hmm, and the mr500) 07.52.17 # All other targets with remotes have button-only remotes 07.52.18 Join Darksair [0] (n=user@221.221.150.6) 07.52.19 # the mr100 uses the same remote i tihnk 07.52.54 # Hmm, if it does, rockbox doesn't support it, at least not the lcd 07.53.35 # i dont think we can draw on the remote from the mr500 either yet 07.53.54 # Iirc supporting that lcd remote shouldn't be too difficult. Same pixel format as all other mono LCDs 07.53.55 # * JdGordon wouldnt trust his memory atm though so... 07.54.16 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07.54.20 # Just really small, and very slow to update 07.54.44 Join byteframe [0] (n=bytefram@pool-71-174-10-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net) 07.54.48 # didn't it have some special symbols (as the Player)? 07.55.19 # Yes it does, but we don't need to support everything at once 07.57.36 # That's one more thing for my generic notification framework idea 07.57.51 Join |ahmina| [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 07.58.54 Quit |ahmina| (SendQ exceeded) 07.59.31 Join |ahmina| [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 08.06.46 Join pondlife [50] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) 08.10.44 Quit lymeca (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08.11.54 Quit byteframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.15.14 Quit |ahmina| (Excess Flood) 08.15.27 Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 08.16.12 Quit jhulst ("ZNC - 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 13.35.45 Join FlynDice [0] (n=jack@c-24-19-225-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 13.41.05 Quit Zagor ("Don't panic") 13.41.16 # amiconn: the inner loop only has multiplies when an alpha value is passed, or while rendering the reflection. for the alpha value case, it might also be worth calculating a pre-scaled reflection table, which would save one multiply per pixel in the reflection, at a cost of REFLECT_HEIGHT multiplies at the start of the function 13.52.18 Join wincent [0] (n=wincent@host-091-097-030-116.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 13.53.22 Join croutonkid94 [0] (n=harrison@c-75-67-153-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) 13.54.37 Join tyfoo [0] (n=tyfoo@77-20-31-238-dynip.superkabel.de) 13.55.58 Part croutonkid94 13.56.18 Join croutonkid94 [0] (n=harrison@c-75-67-153-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) 13.59.43 Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 14.00.08 Join GodEater_ [0] (i=5ec2c96c@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 14.00.23 Quit GodEater_ (Client Quit) 14.00.40 Join GodEater_ [0] (i=5ec2c96c@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 14.02.43 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") 14.07.58 # Does anyone here know about recording on the iPod Nano? 14.09.19 # what do you want to know about it ? 14.09.34 # I can't record using any input 14.09.56 # and how have you tried?...specifically... 14.10.06 # I have a docking station, too, and line-in doesn't record 14.10.40 # I plug a microphone into the headphones, or line in, and go to Recording, then press-and-hold the play button 14.11.15 # are you sure it is a line-in and not a line-out on your docking station? 14.11.39 # the headphones definitely won't work as an input on the Nano. 14.11.45 # yes... it says "aux in" 14.12.21 # I have been trying to record myself playing songs on the piano, but it just gives me an empty file. 14.12.47 # doesn't the recording screen have peakmeters on it ? 14.12.53 # or is that only with the REP ? 14.13.07 # it does 14.13.13 # * GodEater_ summons petur : beer 14.13.44 # so do the peakmeters show you any activity whilst trying to use the line in on the dock croutonkid94 ? 14.13.50 # * petur gets pinged twice 14.14.01 # * croutonkid94 is sorry... checking 14.14.03 # petur: that was the idea ;) 14.14.22 # It shows peakmeters, but nothing happens 14.14.32 # are the peakmeters moving? 14.14.38 # no. 14.14.44 Join evilnick [0] (i=0c140464@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8b12d45890acd4d4) 14.14.58 # croutonkid94: how is the recording source set? 14.15.00 # croutonkid94: are you sure that microphone can be used on a line-in? 14.15.06 # is you input source set as...too late =/ 14.15.23 # petur: wait... when I plug it into the dock, they spike, but nothing records. 14.16.05 # gevaerts: Input source set as microphone, shoult I change it? 14.16.09 # microphone or live signal 14.16.09 Quit PaulJam (".") 14.16.16 # errr 14.16.32 # petur: it says microphone or line in 14.16.33 # do you connect a microphone or line sinal to it? 14.16.47 # the selection must be line-in 14.16.53 # I plug it into a dock and plug the mic into the dock 14.17.00 # aha 14.17.16 # the input is probably not powered, and the mic requires power 14.17.36 # can you attach another sound source to test (cd-player,...)? 14.17.36 # how do i power the input 14.17.58 # no... I don't have the right cable 14.18.06 # if this is the problem, you need a battery-box or mic-amp inbetween 14.18.17 # where can i find one of these? 14.18.26 Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-172-77.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 14.18.58 # the recording source must always be set to line-in, this selects between doc connector and build-in mic or (in your case, I think) headphones connector 14.19.29 # ok thank you... would my preamp on my stereo work, or would it blow the ipod up? 14.19.43 # croutonkid94: most electronics stores should have some cheap stuff 14.20.01 # * croutonkid94 is very grateful to petur 14.20.06 # going through your stereo should work, if you connect the line-out of the stereo to your dock 14.20.11 # I'll try it. 14.20.18 # petur: I didn't think the headphone connector worked as a input on the nano? I thought that was 3G only ? 14.20.30 Part croutonkid94 14.21.00 # I wouldn't know - just guessing. If it wouldn't work, there wouldn't be a source selection possible (or wanted) 14.22.06 # * petur runs off again to mind his STM-1 code 14.24.18 Quit BigBambi ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") 14.24.49 Join flx_ [0] (i=flux@jolt.modeemi.cs.tut.fi) 14.24.53 Quit flux (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.25.46 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 14.26.31 Join BigBambi_ [0] (n=alex@152.27.192-77.rev.gaoland.net) 14.28.44 Quit bubsy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14.29.50 Join bubsy [0] (i=Bubsy@81-31-244-19.net.nc-systems.no) 14.43.39 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 14.44.14 Quit bmbl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.44.56 # midijunkie: fuze still works 14.45.54 # hmm 14.46.47 # so what wrong with mine 14.47.05 # intern memory is free, so rbs should be within 1gb 14.47.14 # midijunkie: try updating the bootloader 14.48.48 # hmm, another flash? diddnt know that 14.50.07 Quit tchan ("WeeChat 0.2.7-dev") 14.50.36 Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 14.52.16 Quit GodEater_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 14.52.32 Join robin0800_ [0] (n=quassel@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust436.brig.cable.ntl.com) 15.03.19 Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.03.44 # kugel:I saw you put in some code to read the CP15 control register 1 in the i/o port page. I hacked something together the other day to get that info but your way much simpler... I've cloned your code to also read the c5 and c6 registers which are the fault status and fault address registers. There should be some clues as to how the ttb tables need to be set up. Any ideas on this? 15.04.34 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.05.10 Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-065-013.nc.res.rr.com) 15.09.30 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@adsl-99-158-46-113.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) 15.10.05 Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B46B1D.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.12.20 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 15.12.26 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 15.12.30 # FlynDice: I assume ttb tables are relatively easy to set up. virtually any other target uses 4k at the end of the RAM 15.12.45 # the F/X too, which have the nearly same processor 15.14.37 Quit robin0800_ (Remote closed the connection) 15.15.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.19.42 # stuck building the patched fw. make rkamsboot doenst work. some errors and no rkamsboot. 15.21.39 # kugel: Yes but I'm going to try to see what faults and addresses come up with some different configurations. Would the 1GB issue be a problem with getting the tables set up? Heading out now back in a bit 15.22.52 # FlynDice: no, the 1GB seems completely unrelated 15.24.05 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 15.24.10 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 15.33.51 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe) 15.34.06 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 15.34.12 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 15.34.20 # ..ok, new bootloader. but rbx still downst want to boot properly 15.35.48 # same problem 15.39.04 Quit sarixe (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.39.19 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 15.39.45 Quit sarixe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.39.50 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis) 15.40.14 Join StealthyXIIGer [0] (n=stealthy@c-68-62-18-116.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 15.40.14 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 15.49.44 Quit wincent (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.50.02 # midijunkie: can't help then. It works on my fuze 15.51.31 Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.53.59 # new bootloader, rbx recompiled etc but doenst work 15.58.37 Part B4gder 15.59.35 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepel@p579EC87D.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.03.23 Join jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E6AEA.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.03.32 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16.04.11 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 16.16.57 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 16.17.03 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 16.18.14 Join planetbeing [0] (n=planetbe@c-71-236-164-204.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 16.20.43 # r20327 works 16.24.50 # midijunkie: I changed some fuze code, which is why you probably need to update the bootloader. I'm running r20338 bootloader and r20338 main binary without problems 16.25.17 # yea, did that 16.25.53 Join z35 [0] (n=z35@h213.59.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) 16.29.24 # midijunkie: well, it seems to me that you didn't do it properly 16.29.37 # updated the bootloader and it is definatly r30388 16.29.51 # booting without .rockbox shows r20388 16.30.19 Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16.30.31 # kugel: If you get a chance could you see if #8894 now works on a 64-bit sim? 16.31.09 Part LinusN 16.31.16 # I just replaced int/long long with int32_t/int64_t 16.32.01 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 16.32.06 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 16.33.54 # pondlife: I think I tried that too, without success. But sure 16.34.36 # I wonder if it's possible to avoid 8byte datatypes. That'll improve performance quite a bit 16.36.01 # midijunkie: and what was the exact problem again? 16.36.22 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16.37.15 # bootloader shows up and boots the fw, but the display turn black like the scrollwheel 16.37.31 # and it doesnt react to any buttons 16.37.46 # have to hold turn off till its off 16.39.12 # midijunkie: can you try toggling the hold switch? 16.39.54 # yes, sec. 16.41.36 # I have no problems with default settings either 16.42.53 # toggling hold does nothing 16.43.31 # I can "simulate" your problem if I quickly turn hold on after turning the player on, but that's all :( 16.44.50 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 16.47.37 # mm, im always getting this blackscreen 16.48.32 # r20327 works just fine. 16.49.00 # testing r20331 16.49.42 # works 16.51.00 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.7/2009030516]") 16.51.15 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 16.56.45 # gevaerts: we should implement clock setting on all software targets and write a small pc-side tool to set it 16.57.20 # rasher: Should that be part of rbutil? 16.57.28 # rasher: I agree. It shouldn't be too hard 16.57.30 # gevaerts: Was the clock set before or after iTunes had identified it as an Ipod? 16.57.36 # after 16.57.39 # evilnick: good idea, but a stand-alone tool would also be neat 16.57.42 # gevaerts: pity :) 16.58.58 # rasher: I agree with the small standalone tool, but was thinking of the end-users who'd be using rbutil. Nice to have everything in one place 16.59.20 # evilnick: certainly 17.01.26 # Make it a service on windows that automagically sets the clock... 17.02.22 # that would be awesome 17.02.30 Join MTee [0] (n=MTee@41.233.149.159) 17.02.49 # rbservice - sets the clock, checks for updates (based on your preference of Releases or All Update), etc, etc? :-P 17.03.52 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@74.0.180.178) 17.04.13 # gevaerts: When in the syncing process did itunes send the "time" message? 17.04.24 # (from your USB log...) 17.07.13 Join Ubuntuxer [0] (n=johannes@dslb-094-220-233-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) 17.08.51 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.10.45 # amiconn: would be smarter anyway, since I assume custom scsi stuff requires admin priveledges 17.11.18 # linuxstb: I'm not enterly sure actually... 17.15.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.17.42 # The code I'm writing for ipodpatcher to perform the SCSI inquries will probably be useful for that. 17.26.49 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 17.33.42 # * obo wonders what is preventing him from running custom code on a view 17.35.21 Quit MTee (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.35.55 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.178) 17.37.56 Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) 17.40.42 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.51.42 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-94a6e7d229eeb9c1) 17.53.35 # how would sorting "a1" before "a00" be? to fix FS#10029 sorting must not ignore "leading" zeroes within a string (leading as in if the string before the first 0 is the same) 17.54.01 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) 17.54.28 # this is why we shuoldnt ever have done any sorting other than asciibetical 17.54.32 # a0 < a1 < a00 < a01 JdGordon|w: turn it on, then 17.55.13 Join flydutch [0] (n=flydutch@host238-166-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 17.56.46 # this would also give better sortings for decimal numbers (1.x before 1.00x, etc) 17.57.24 # kugel: a1 => a{1} a00 => a{0}, and hence a1 should be after a00. Why not? 17.58.44 # a0 and a00 should sort "the same" 17.58.48 # rasher: if there's a char after the numbers, sorting will mess up because 0's are ignored 17.58.56 # see FS#10029 17.59.30 # kugel: it's not about ignoring 0s... 17.59.43 # 00 should sort as 0 17.59.59 # a00 sorts as a, currently 18.00.04 # That's broken. 18.00.10 # yes it is 18.00.17 # and I'm searching for a way to fix 18.00.28 # 1 way is to not ignore zeroes within strings 18.01.19 # which would be fine for decimal numbers too (see example at http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/) 18.02.04 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving. I cannot promise to be back but most likely will.") 18.02.12 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.178) 18.02.14 # rasher: ignoring the zeroes isn't in the original implementation, nico_p changed that. 18.10.35 # * kugel doesn't really think "a001" and "a1" should sort the same, somehow 18.11.42 # but they don't, do they? 18.11.56 # natsort would be 0 and then it would do strcmp which differs 18.15.22 Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm246.delta91.maxonline.com.sg) 18.15.25 Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@unaffiliated/homielowe) 18.15.29 Quit homielowe (Remote closed the connection) 18.15.34 # Bagder: they don't sort the same with natsort too, because (in our version) zeroes are ignored. But that leads to "a01_" < "a00_" 18.16.16 # it should only ignore leading zeroes, not all 18.16.31 # that's what I'm saying, but rasher seems to disagree 18.17.00 # but you said a001 and a1 and for those my reasoning holds 18.17.08 # In your a00 example, the first 0 is a leading one, the last one isn't 18.17.24 # In a001, both zeroes are leading ones 18.17.49 # I think kugel's thinking of leading as "absolute" leading, as in "the beginning of the string only" 18.18.34 # I won't argue much with this, since I find it a slippery slope the whole thing ;-) 18.18.40 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving. I cannot promise to be back but most likely will.") 18.18.44 # What we need is "numbers reduced to the least number of digits that still express the number" so 1000 stays 1000, any number of 0s becomes 0, and 00000001 becomes 1 etc. 18.24.12 Quit petur ("now sports") 18.25.32 Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B46B1D.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.27.53 Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 18.28.56 Quit lymeca (SendQ exceeded) 18.29.15 Join lymeca [0] (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) 18.30.10 Quit Ubuntuxer ("Leaving.") 18.30.50 # you could only ignore zeroes after whitespace 18.32.00 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.") 18.32.09 Join nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-24-6-174-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 18.32.16 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@adsl-99-158-46-113.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) 18.33.22 # * kugel thinks it should be "a0001" < "a001" < "a01" < "a" 18.33.29 # "a1"* 18.33.58 # isn't it already? 18.34.07 # natsort would be 0 and then it would do strcmp which differs 18.34.39 # kugel: i can't help reading those as hex numbers 18.36.07 # Bagder: yea. but what about "a02" and "a1"? 18.36.29 # imo, a02 < a1 18.36.44 # really? 18.36.46 # If we're interpreting them as numbers (like the name suggests) that should sort "a1, a02" 18.36.59 # leading zeroes don't count 18.37.04 # 010 is still 10 18.37.08 # The problem is with 0s without numbers following vanishing. 18.37.27 # and what about "1.002" and "1.1"? 18.37.37 # kugel: I think your version is a strange mix of nat and ascii 18.37.55 # it's not my version at all 18.38.00 # kugel: Those are decimal numbers. Do you think we also intend 1001 to be treated as 11 or 1 and 1? 18.38.07 # kugel: I would guess a nat advocate would say support decimal numbers 18.38.30 # since a "human" would consider 1.0002 to be less than 1.1 18.38.52 # this is the slippery slope I mentioned 18.38.55 # I use ascii sort 18.39.40 # Of course, the question arises for 1.001.002.003 type situations but you can always just say "decimal points count as a digit, as do commas" and leave it at that. 18.39.54 # haha, yeah it never stops 18.40.45 # yes, what about Ï€? Should it sort before or after 3.141592? 18.41.07 # gevaerts: As long as "e" and "c" aren't given numeric values, neither should we do so for Ï€. :-P 18.41.34 # is there are appropriate unicode symbol for e-the-natural-log-base? because we must make sure that sorts properly 18.41.42 # and i've no idea where to put i ;) 18.41.45 Quit jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.42.37 # Unhelpful: In inverted text, upside down, at the bottom of the list (or top, if you flip the player to read it) 18.42.59 Part pyro_maniac ("Leaving.") 18.43.27 Part pondlife 18.43.51 # Llorean: no, no, no, we're already sorting real values vertically, i think imaginary components need a left/right axis 18.44.26 Join n1s [0] (n=n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) 18.44.49 # Unhelpful: If it's fully reversed, all imaginary text will be drawn RTL anyway. 18.44.57 # Well, RTL when the screen isn't inverted. 18.45.53 Join CaptainKwel [0] (i=2669ecc2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c6e26b9ef66701fe) 18.45.59 # Anyway, about realistically used numbers. 18.46.34 # For sorting decimals, don't . and , just need to be digits with a value "less" than 0? 18.47.39 # I mean, after the first, so 1.0000000 and 1.000.00 means the latter comes first in the list. 18.50.58 # If we're going to ship without rockbox usb, I guess I'd better revert r20105 in 3.2 now. Any objections? 18.51.08 # Not I. 18.51.35 # It needs to be done, and sooner is probably better 18.52.08 Join jordoex [0] (n=quassel@d154-20-29-131.bchsia.telus.net) 18.52.57 # gevaerts: go go go 18.53.40 # done 18.55.24 # is FS#10029 a feature of the new sorting thing? 18.56.11 Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.57.13 Quit midijunkie ("?(???~•~)?") 18.57.50 # n1s: "Feature", "bug", seems to be debated. 18.58.43 # I seem to recall one other task being posted for something similar recently. 19.02.08 # Any chance the new natural sort bug wasn't there before FS9972? 19.05.38 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.06.01 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 19.06.03 # kugel: Any chance the function 9972 removed wasn't really unused? 19.08.17 # kugel: I don't see why it tries to ignore leading zeroes at all 19.08.31 # It should just treat them like it does everywhere else 19.08.52 # rasher: "always assume leading zeros are intentional"? 19.09.21 # Not sure what you mean with that 19.09.37 # It should just collapse zeroes (anywhere) until you end with a "natural" number. Such as "001" > "1" and "00000" > "0" 19.10.08 # Ah, I thought you were talking about say, 01 vs 1 vs 001 19.10.20 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") 19.10.30 # No, that comes down to strcmp() 19.10.41 # natcmp should compare those to equal 19.10.58 # Yeah, leading zeros should "collapse". 19.11.12 # No number should vanish, just become the minimum number of digits to still be that number. 19.11.18 # Llorean: no, it was unused, due to ignoring leading zeroes at all 19.11.19 # So 1.0002000 becomes 1.0002 19.11.43 # kugel: What was the reason for ignoring leading zeroes? 19.11.44 # kugel: So if we remove ignoring leading zeros, and add that back in, will it start working like *we* expect it to? 19.12.05 # rasher: having 03 before 4, for example 19.12.22 # But natsort already does that 19.12.27 # Or should 19.12.28 # kugel: 03 before 4 happens if you "collapse" 19.12.49 # rasher: the original implementation does not do that 19.13.01 # kugel: willing to place a bet? 19.13.05 # kugel: The original implementation's page describing the algorithm it claims it does. 19.13.33 # rasher: I tried it (by removing a == '0' in nat_isspace), but maybe my memory is wrong 19.14.08 # Llorean: it does describe what? 19.14.39 Part jamiem ("Leaving") 19.14.59 # kugel: I'm willing to bet that you either do remember wrong, that your test was wrong, or that there's a bug in Rockbox' implementation. 19.15.32 # rasher: did you just try? remember that you need compare_left again if you remove a == '0' 19.15.34 Join MTee [0] (n=MTee@41.233.149.159) 19.15.40 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.16.05 # Looks like I just lost a bet 19.16.28 # > Leading zeros are not ignored, which tends to give more reasonable results on decimal fractions. 19.16.33 # > 1.001 < 1.002 < 1.010 < 1.02 < 1.1 < 1.3 19.16.57 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98214654@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1b9d09c196a48e76) 19.17.33 # I don't think we want to keep that behaviour (and it's also noted right below that quote that some applications might not want to) 19.18.52 # rasher: I thought we do want decimals treated as decimals. 19.19.13 # But natsort doesn't do that by treating them as decimals though 19.19.13 # I also don't really see why leading zeros *should* be ignored. If they're there, they're probably intentional. 19.19.20 # rasher: that's why Nico_p decided to ignore such leading zeroes 19.19.23 # rasher: But it has the same net effect. 19.19.36 # What's the argument *for* ignoring leading zeros? "Someone might have put them there and not wanted them?" 19.19.39 # Llorean: yes.. but also the side effect that 03 sorts after 4 19.19.56 # rasher: And when do you intentionally have a 03 and a 4 and NOT want it sorted before the 4? 19.19.57 # and for natsort, leading zeros are also those which come after a constant string 19.20.21 # Natsort is supposed to fix 1, 2, 3, 10, 11, 12 issues. 19.20.29 # Llorean: But if we want both decimals sorted correctly AND 03 to sort after 4, that'd need major surgery I expect 19.20.46 # rasher: you haven't answered *why* we want 03 after 4? 19.20.53 # Who would have things labelled this way, reasonably? 19.20.53 # Llorean: we don't! 19.21.10 # But we can't have it both ways 19.21.12 # Well, 03 is before 4 with either sort right now, isn't it? 19.21.17 # Or did you mean 04 after 3? 19.21.40 # Yes, but this breaks decimal sorting, and it seems it also breaks "00" 19.21.43 # And I still don't see why "numbers with leading zeros" should have those 0s ignored in favor of sorting decimals properly 19.21.47 # Llorean: original natsort does 03 < 2 < 4 19.22.06 # I'd rather have 04, 3 and 1.002 , 1.1 than 3, 04 and 1.1, 1.002 19.22.18 # Llorean: Problem is "." is treated as a space 19.22.25 # rasher: Yes 19.22.33 # You're neither answering my question: WHY should we ignore leading 0s? 19.22.36 # They're almost always intentional 19.22.46 # The natural sorting is supposed to fix when there are NOT leading zeros 19.23.05 # So you want 04, 3 ? 19.23.10 # If we don't ignore leading zeros, most problems go away, and the only one we're left with is the 03, 2, 4 situation which may well be intentional anyway 19.23.13 # Yes, I do. 19.23.19 # Because I don't see why we should assume that's not intentional 19.23.21 # Right. Well I consider that broken sorting 19.23.26 # rasher: . is not treated as space 19.23.32 # rasher: Why do you? 19.23.36 # it's a char, just like a 19.23.47 # kugel: I mean as a separator between numbers 19.23.53 # hence my a02 < a1 vs 1.02 < 1.1 example 19.23.54 # Llorean: because 4 > 3 19.24.01 # rasher: So we assume people labelled their files wrong? 19.24.11 # The 1, 2, 3, 10, 11, 12 issue doesn't assume any character *doesn't* belong 19.24.18 # it just assumes that there's implied order. 19.24.26 # You're saying "we should ignore something the user typed in" 19.24.37 # You're assuming the user typed every filename out by hand 19.24.53 # rasher: You think an automatic script would then put 03, 4, 2 as file numbers? 19.24.55 # Or that they didn't just toss a bunch of albums together in one dir 19.25.05 # Llorean: I'm not saying that. 19.25.18 # I'd rather not ignore parts of filenames arbitrarily 19.25.20 # * kugel agrees with Llorean 19.25.28 # Just saying it could happen in a number of other ways than "user has carefully typed in every filename" 19.25.38 # You're basically saying, to users, "no matter what you type, you can't force the ordering while maintaining the natural functions for other numbers" 19.25.39 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-096-215-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 19.26.18 # 2 < 03 is minor, compared to abc01 < abc00 (FS#10029) 19.26.21 # We obviously disagree. I don't care much 19.26.43 # Unrelated: usb.org responded! 19.26.49 # "Thank you for your message. In the scenario you have described below, it is not necessary for Rockbox to obtain a VID. Please let us know if you have any additional questions." 19.27.09 # Amazing 19.27.18 # that doesn't really answer our question 19.27.36 # It answers the first part, and consideres the latter to be irrelevant? 19.27.47 # Basically, yes. 19.27.50 # we knew that it's not necessary. We want to know if we still should get one (recommendation) and whether this is even possible for a non-legal entity 19.28.22 # kugel: Well, I think that says "you shouldn't". I think if they felt it was "right" that we get one, they would've told us to. 19.28.35 # We've basically been told that we aren't doing anything "wrong" by not getting one. 19.28.37 # kugel: We knew it wasn't necessary for *us*, but we wanted to know if they thought we should. 19.28.46 # Which they don't. 19.29.03 # Having them say "it's not necessary" is very different from us saying it 19.29.14 # if we want to have media players to recognize rockbox'd players we need one, still, I think 19.29.37 # kugel: Nah, the SCSI enquiry magic and presence of rockbox-info.txt can both handle that. 19.29.56 # ah, right, cool then 19.29.57 # And allow us to not break software that already recognizes these players by VID/PID 19.30.25 # and with SCSI magic the software can tell which os is just running? 19.30.33 # Yep 19.30.53 # I don't think we should require/encourage using the scsi stuff 19.31.17 # rasher: Not for anything that doesn't need it. 19.31.33 # I think pointing them to rockbox-info.txt is far better 19.31.39 # But detecting which USB mode is in use (OF or RB) does need it. 19.31.43 # It's both simpler, and can be done without admin rights 19.31.47 # I think I'll restore the not-ignoring leading zeroes 19.31.48 # A -info.txt can even be present on devices without RB. 19.32.04 # Llorean: Unlikely 19.32.05 # but that will give a02 < a1, too, just to let you know 19.32.21 # rasher: If someone uninstalled the Rockbox bootloader, and is now using their OF iPod with Amarok? 19.32.30 # but that doesn't look unnatural to if you see it (if you ask me) 19.33.01 # Llorean: Then it'll probably detect is as an ipod first - but even so if it's detected as a Rockbox device, that's no big disaster 19.33.14 # User should just think "oh, there must still be some rockbox left" 19.33.18 # with some magic we could special case the "real" leading zeros, and still have 03 before 2 19.33.24 # eh, 2 before 03 19.33.43 # rasher: Yeah, but I'm thinking of things that maybe silently handle the two differently. I guess that's their problem though, not ours. 19.34.14 # Llorean: I just think relying on what is basically proprietary scsi magic is silly 19.34.48 # It's not really proprietary, is it? I mean, it's something we could do our own way anyway. 19.35.10 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 19.35.11 # At the very least, the time setting is going to be a nice feature, so things are probably going to want to be able to do them anyway. 19.35.28 Quit Darksair ("Use the Force, Luke!") 19.36.43 Quit flydutch ("/* empty */") 19.36.57 # kugel: that sounds like a recipe for disaster 19.37.09 # why? 19.37.31 # Special casing usually just ends up in tears 19.38.38 # And as I said, I don't care much. So just going with what the algorithm gives us might be best 19.39.18 # If it's a commonly used algorithm, at least using it the original way means our files will probably list the same order as some other OSS software "naturally" sorts them? 19.39.50 # That too 19.41.26 # so, don't do 2 < 03? 19.41.47 # I don't care much, I don't have such strangely named files in 1 dir 19.42.02 # My vote is "the algorithm as originally written, without our modifications" I think 19.42.32 # sounds reasonable 19.43.05 # Yes, go ahead 19.44.31 # At the very least, we can now tell people to take arguments about the "proper" order upstream. :-P 19.44.44 Quit planetbeing () 19.45.30 # we have some changes though, the to_int stuff 19.45.48 # the original implementation does weird casting, which also causes unicode weirdness 19.48.35 # Well I'm more talking about preserving the general algorithm, rather than the code. 19.49.07 # Again, agreed 19.49.32 # hej 19.49.40 # how is the rockbox dev going? 19.50.59 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98214654@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-56f784fe895042cd) 19.53.16 Join jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E6AEA.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.58.51 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 19.59.27 # I have the number of days since January 1st. Is there something in the rockbox core that will give me month and day? 20.01.17 # gevaerts: this year? 20.01.25 # haha, I really don't agree with the not-ignoring leading zeroes 20.01.44 # but I'll shutup, I think it's entirely crazy anyway 20.01.51 # n1s: I have the year as well. Sorry, should have specified that 20.01.52 # hehe 20.01.58 # Bagder: From that sentence I can't tell which side you don't agree with anyway. :-P 20.02.10 # I think it should ignore leading zeroes 20.02.17 # 1 02 3 04 20.02.32 # gevaerts: the various rtc chips store the date in different ways and may contain what you want 20.02.33 # 00 1 02 3 04 even 20.02.46 # their drivers even 20.02.49 # Bagder: How about "foo 01" "foo 2"? 20.02.51 # Bagder: I just think the "mixed" cases are probably going to be so uncommon as to not matter, while the other things not ignoring them will fix will be much more common. 20.02.57 # n1s: it won't be in the shared core then I guess 20.03.09 # rasher: 01 before 2 20.03.28 # Bagder: But then they're no longer "true leading". And we need to get into word separators 20.03.42 # they're leading in the number, and we sort on numbers 20.03.44 # And it all gets hairy as long as we also want to sort 1.01 before 1.1 20.03.52 # this should be backported to the 3.2 branch, right? 20.04.08 # but as I said, I won't push for it 20.04.29 # gevaerts: it'd be easy enough to make turn what you have into time_t - then use localtime on it? 20.04.38 # gevaerts: no, don't think there's anything like that in the shared core 20.04.52 # Bagder: as I said, real leading numbers could be special cased rather easily, but I don't care so much, and we disagreed 20.05.23 # right, but still you committed a change... 20.05.41 # Seems at least 3 rtc drivers have their own is_leap_year (or code to that effect) 20.05.50 # yes, because it fixes numbers within strings and decimal numbers 20.05.58 # Bagder: Well, it's currently a case of "which cases do we wish to break" 20.06.05 # obo: good idea 20.06.15 # Bagder: Do we wish to break mixed (1, 02, 3, 04), or "decimal and 00s within strings" 20.06.18 # Llorean: right, but natsort was always that 20.06.53 # Llorean: we could have both working 20.07.25 # kugel: And I wouldn't object. In my opinion, leading zeros should be assumed intentional rather than assuming that a mixed selection is actually supposed to be sorted mixed. 20.07.38 # Even if you have 1, 02, 3, 04, odds are they came from different albums and don't need to be numerically sorted anyway 20.07.54 # and I don't disagree 20.08.14 # But I'd rather things just work consistently in general for the other cases, independently of what happens to the 1, 02, 3, 04 case 20.08.23 # Llorean: Consider the case of "tossing 10 albums into one dir", sorting ignoring leading zeroes would have all "track 2" together 20.08.40 # rasher: What good does that do, exactly? 20.08.47 # Easier to find? 20.09.03 # do you generally throw a bunch of files in one folder to make them easier to find? 20.09.11 # *I* don't 20.09.20 # People do the weirdest stuff though 20.09.40 # So, the choice is "break it for people who name things intentionally, in favour of people who throw files around randomly" or "break it for people who throw files around randomly, in favour of people who actually take care in naming" 20.10.12 # Why would anyone intentionally mix 1 2 3 5 and 04, and expect 04 to sort last? 20.10.15 # That's at least as weird 20.10.36 # Folder names. I still expect 007 to come before 4. 20.10.42 # also, I think sorting "03 1 2 10", isn't crazy, but trying to correctly sort those weird filenames is :) 20.10.45 # Even if I expect 10 to come after 9. 20.11.17 # rasher: a) you just agreed on not special casing this, b) 04 is sorted first 20.11.17 # Llorean: that seems like you want to have it both ways 20.11.38 # kugel: I did, just continuing the argument :) 20.11.46 # rasher: I want "numbers as people write them" to be interpreted. People don't start lists with 001 normally 20.11.46 # right, first. 20.12.08 # We need to get this neural interface ready soon. 20.12.11 # rasher: It is both ways. "Don't assume the user is stupid in picking names" but also "let the user assume you're smart" in terms of 1, 2, 10, 11 20.12.12 # obo: except localtime() isn't in rockbox either... 20.12.12 # nothing is set into stone, we can still do it, I don't care much enough for a discussion about it though 20.12.55 # kugel: I stand by what I said, and think Rockbox should stick to the published algorithm 20.12.55 # Basically, "don't MAKE the user do things to sort in order, but assume if the user DOES do things they're intentional" 20.13.05 # I think there's good reasons for and against in the 2 < 03 case 20.13.28 # Sticking by the published algorithm is probably the best way to avoid arguments, since we can all say "ah well, that's how 'it' works" 20.13.44 # that's easy, easy is good :P 20.13.45 # * gevaerts thinks that the rockbox time code is a mess 20.13.46 # It's definitely one of those "personal preference" areas again, otherwise. 20.13.59 # Llorean: I'm seeing it as "*always* sort numbers as their numerical value, because that's consistant" 20.14.14 # that doesn't work 20.14.24 # gevaerts: sorry, I got lost in a maze of #ifdefs... localtime only exists on sims 20.14.35 # gevaerts: it is indeed 20.14.43 # rasher: They're both consistent, they just both need you to know what sort of consistency to expect. 20.15.01 # Llorean: Sure. But I'm obviously right! 20.15.05 # :-P 20.15.29 # well, it was not consistent 20.15.30 # Well, we still have a reference implementation to refer to. I really like the idea of writing it off as "not our problem" 20.15.40 # gevaerts: maybe it's time to move is_leap_year to somewhere central? 20.15.48 # it sorted a00 before a01, but a01_ before a00_ 20.15.49 # rather than having one in each rtc driver.. 20.15.57 # rasher: if it was only is_leap_year(), it would be fine... 20.16.09 # gevaerts: well, the date and day follows, surely? 20.16.17 # eh, month and day 20.16.56 # Bagder, gevaerts: Did you see the USB VID question was finally answered? 20.17.18 # Llorean: no 20.17.25 # gevaerts: "Thank you for your message. In the scenario you have described below, it is not necessary for Rockbox to obtain a VID. Please let us know if you have any additional questions." 20.17.38 # ok, so re-using is fine 20.17.39 # As far as USB.org is concerned, our method of using the OF's VIDs is valid. 20.17.56 # And we explicitly mentioned the MTP -> UMS of the Gigabeat S. 20.19.10 Join arohtar [0] (n=faemir@88-106-169-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) 20.20.54 # ah, now i remember the fun thing about the time code, it converts to and from bcd for almost all rtc's wich means that at least some drivers need to undo this conversion :) 20.21.32 Join Conic [0] (n=conicpp@c-75-68-165-66.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) 20.21.44 # so, any h10 or mrobe people want to test fs#10018 today? 20.22.11 Quit faemir (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.23.46 # gevaerts, I agree about the rtc 20.24.56 # * gevaerts "solved" it by leaving this to the next person. FS#10023 has the itunes clock patch, but not the rockbox setting code 20.25.09 Join guest001 [0] (n=someone@222-93.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch) 20.25.48 Join Xerion [0] (n=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl) 20.25.50 # Haha 20.26.02 # I do USB :) 20.26.28 # n1s: I can test on H10 5GB UMS 20.28.01 # gevaerts: lovely 20.28.17 # unfortunately my mr100 is still in a semi-dead state 20.28.32 # * n1s has no idea how different the different h10 models are 20.28.48 # n1s: LCD and HD capacity are the biggest differences. 20.29.28 # LambdaCalculus37: ok, so i guess we can assume that a small change to the bootloader should work fine on one kind if it works on the other? 20.29.58 # n1s: I don't see why not, although I don't own an H10 myself. 20.30.25 # n1s: actually, with this particular change I think it's fairly safe to assume that if it works on any player, it will work on the others 20.30.36 # gevaerts: What's wrong with your mr100? 20.31.32 # LambdaCalculus37: I did too extensive testing on it, and now I can't get the OF to work at all. I also suspect that the disk may be bad 20.31.35 # gevaerts: i think so too, but i think testing on at least one non-sansa player would be good :) 20.32.17 # hom important could the UMS vs MTP (I believe?) difference between the H10s be with n1s' patch? 20.32.38 # that shouldn't be involved at all 20.32.41 Join Thundercloud [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) 20.32.43 # s/hom/how 20.33.52 # gevaerts: The microdrive in the mr100 is the same as that in the H10 5GB. 20.34.14 # LambdaCalculus37: I know. I'm still not going to swap them for bootloader testing :) 20.34.27 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 20.36.41 Join Aurix_Lexico [0] (n=comrade@c-68-56-205-239.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 20.40.33 # the delta table seems to have a delay (both build with the delta appearing one round later were made on jhulst.com, maybe a hint?) 20.44.18 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 20.45.27 Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) 20.47.14 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20.49.37 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 20.50.34 Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 20.53.01 Join neldoreth [0] (n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth) 20.54.17 # hey there - i just want to install rockbox to my creative zen vision:m 30gb with this tutorial http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreativeZVMPort - but i fail at the execute mkzenboot step, cause he says that he could not open the build/rockbox.zvmboot file - when should this be generated? 20.57.27 # neldoreth: You do know that the ZVM is not a supported target yet, right? 20.57.35 # It's only useful for developers. 20.58.25 # yeah i read that, but i still want to try it out - if as i see it is possible to play back the original firmware 20.59.12 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") 21.00.14 # n1s: works fine 21.00.44 # gevaerts: thanks 21.01.04 # neldoreth: there's only one developer working on the zvm, and he's not here right now 21.01.48 # gevaerts: ok, i guess i will idle here in the cannel - maybe he shows up sometime - thank you 21.02.04 # neldoreth: you want mcuelenaere 21.02.20 # ok, thank you 21.04.37 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 21.04.43 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 21.07.06 # rasher: are you going to build release bootloaders or are the ones in FS#9955 the ones that will be released? 21.07.25 # n1s: I don't think there's any reason to release new bootloaders at all 21.07.49 # ah, right, we didn't enable usb after all 21.08.34 # ok, the fs#10018 fix is probably not worth a new bootloader release on its ow so i'll leave the branch alone 21.08.47 # s/ow/own/ 21.09.50 # I guess we'll want to release new bootloaders for 3.3 21.10.02 # yeah hopefully 21.12.04 # I'm going to backport the strnatcmp changes, any voices against it? 21.12.24 # kugel: FS#10030 21.13.32 # rasher: haha 21.14.01 # Llorean: he just changed nat_isspace to return true on 0 again (i.e. ignoring zeros 21.14.02 # ) 21.14.30 # even worse, that's just my whole commit reverted :O 21.14.36 # kugel: Still, he should start issuing patches. 21.14.45 # Reject it, if it's just the reversion of yoru commit. 21.15.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.15.46 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 21.16.28 # * linuxstb spots tabs in strnatcmp.c... 21.17.44 # revert the whole file :) 21.18.35 # linuxstb: the whole indentation is a nightmare in that file. tabs are the smallest problem 21.18.37 # imo 21.18.39 # kugel: Your commit message says "doesn't sort 2 before 03" ? So the description in the manual is now wrong? 21.18.52 # linuxstb: look at my last commit :) 21.19.16 # r20343 21.19.19 # Just rename the thing to "unpredictable ordering" and be done with it :) 21.19.41 # it's perfectly predictable now 21.19.42 # * linuxstb wonders why r20343 isn't on the front page 21.19.58 Join hiredman [0] (n=rattus@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net) 21.19.58 # it lags sometimes 21.20.00 # Surely it's always predictable unless you use rand() 21.21.47 # The manual just looks like nonsense now - i.e. sorting "03" before "2" isn't treating them "as whole numbers". 21.22.29 # linuxstb: But that's how The Algorithm works... 21.23.05 # Is that how Windows/Finder/Nautilus work then? 21.23.07 # The idea is a) To sort decimal numbers such as 1.01 and 1.3 correctly b) If there's a 0, it's probably put there to enforce sorting order 21.23.08 # hence I added the sentence about leading zeros 21.23.39 # Just saying "taking account of leading zeros" doesn't actually describe what happens when you take them into account though... 21.23.50 # and again, if 03 and 2 are in one dir, it's not unlikely to be intentional 21.24.02 # hence the example table 21.24.38 # I don't care enough to argue about the algorithm, it's just the description of it. 21.25.22 # * gevaerts wants /me wants the sorter to crash on 08 and 09 21.25.28 # then improve it. I think it's fine with the example table 21.27.02 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) 21.27.11 # neldoreth: you had a problem with mkzenboot? 21.27.42 # hi mcuelenaere 21.28.41 # yeah, when i ran ./mzenboot *.exe etc - it said: [ERR] Could not open ../build/rockbox.zvmboot 21.28.48 # so i was wondering when this file should be generated 21.29.06 # have you got the Rockbox development environment installed? 21.29.22 # s/have you got/do you have/ 21.29.46 # the arm-elf compilre? 21.29.52 # yes 21.30.03 # yeah, installed that 21.30.11 # wait i will check out the wiki if i have missed something 21.30.17 # and you generated rockbox.zvmboot by building the ZVM Rockbox bootloader? 21.30.58 Join toffe82_ [0] (n=chatzill@74.0.180.178) 21.31.04 # by executing make mkzenboot? 21.31.34 # no, by executing tools/configure & make 21.31.51 Quit guest001 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.31.56 # yeah i ran that 21.32.08 # and did it gave you rockbox.zvmboot? 21.32.22 Quit CaptainKwel ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 21.32.51 # it warned me about the cross compiler version 21.32.56 # * gevaerts thinks he knows a way to make USB write speed a bit faster, but he doesn't like the complexity it would add 21.33.19 # ah i get an error while compiling 21.33.24 # neldoreth: then I suppose you didn't run rockboxdev.sh? (I'm not sure whether the GCC version matters) 21.34.43 # ah thats what ive missed 21.35.48 # rockboxdev.sh compiles the crosscompilers 21.35.59 # at the target i will choose arm right? 21.36.06 # yes 21.36.13 # it will take some time to complete though 21.36.20 # on what OS are you building? 21.37.36 # archlinux 64bit 21.38.19 # ok, then there's no performance loss 21.39.00 Part kugel 21.39.07 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 21.41.02 # takes some time, what i am compiling now is the cross-arm-elf compiler collection? 21.42.31 # yes, with some Rockbox-specific patches 21.42.46 # what version of arm-elf-gcc were you using before? 21.43.06 # * kugel wonders if creatives still work after my last nights commit 21.43.11 # 4.3.2-1 21.43.13 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=lem@host-091-096-213-103.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 21.43.18 # * mcuelenaere has no way to find out currently 21.43.49 # gcc 4.3.2 for ARM quite surely does not work correctly as-is for Rockbox 21.43.59 # I removed HAVE_LCD_ENABLE, because it's not really implemented anyway 21.44.03 Quit bmbl ("Woah!") 21.44.04 # ok compiling finished, but i get a "/usr/bin/arm-elf-ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots" error 21.44.23 # Sounds like you have another ARM toolchain in your path? 21.44.33 # neldoreth: make sure your path has the rockbox toolchain first 21.44.41 # ouch arm-elf in /usr/bin 21.44.53 # i updated the path 21.45.37 # what does echo $PATH say? 21.45.38 # ah ok, cause i should have removed my old installation first 21.46.24 Quit toffe82 (Connection timed out) 21.46.32 # http://pastebin.com/m7080dd62 21.47.01 # put /usr/local/arm-elf/bin first 21.47.16 # Doesn't rockboxdev.sh add it at the start of the path? 21.47.35 # * linuxstb sees that it doesn't 21.47.43 # rockboxdev.sh can't change the path 21.48.10 # It does - after binutils is built and installed. 21.48.11 # ok - above error fixed, but now he says that an object file is a not recognized file ".. /bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.320x98x16.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized" 21.48.23 # The target binutils must be in the path for gcc to compile. 21.48.31 # ah yes 21.48.33 # neldoreth: make clean 21.48.35 # (only temporarily though) 21.48.51 # gevaerts: ok 21.49.07 # Bagder: Do you think rockboxdev.sh should put $bindir at the start of the path? 21.49.14 # yes I do 21.49.25 # thank you all by now 21.49.35 # Bagder: OK, I'll do it. 21.49.35 # neldoreth's setup for example will probably cause problems while building otherwise 21.50.57 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 21.51.22 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 21.51.56 # ok the compiling went through now without any problems 21.52.11 # but i still got now rockbox.zvmboot 21.52.41 # Bagder: Is there a reason for "${PATH}:$bindir" - i.e. {} for one var, but not the other? 21.52.49 # neldoreth: what did you select when doing tools/configure? 21.53.16 # 90 (?) for the creative zen and then N 21.53.30 # linuxstb: just a habit of mine I believe, to make the colon not be treated as part of the name, as the second name as no trailing colon 21.53.39 # ah i should have select bootloader :X 21.53.42 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) 21.53.47 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 21.53.53 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 21.53.53 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 21.54.46 # Bagder: Bah, then I should have done it differently to my commit? Why would the colon be treated as part of the name though? 21.55.17 # "undefined reference to `lcd_enable'" do i need another lib? 21.55.26 # linuxstb: it's just a precaution to work with a wider range of shells, I can't recall off the top of my head which had problems with it 21.55.27 # nope, that's just kugel :P 21.55.36 # update your repo 21.57.46 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3d50f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-07f22e4ef1d1ea51) 21.58.22 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepel@p579EC87D.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.58.51 # kugel: Why'd you re-open the task? 21.59.55 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22.00.53 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") 22.01.00 # kugel: are you sure about your recent changes to the natural sorting documentation? Does "03 Jackson" really go before "1 Ring of fire"? Is that "natural"? 22.01.31 # Llorean: I want to see the patch. I wrote to the ml that it's possibly be closed again 22.01.46 # fml: that's what the algorithm does, yes. 22.01.52 Quit evilnick ("mibbit.com: Boing, time for bed") 22.01.59 # fml: See the logs in here, it's been quite discussed. 22.03.11 # Basically, ignoring 0s introduces a different set of problems with the sort. Since it's a matter of preference (which problems we want, which we don't) we're using the existing algorithm rather than introducing our own changes into it (in the partial hope that at least we'll sort consistently with other software using the same algorithm) 22.04.21 # fml: not forget that this is an arbitary and totally artificial example. If there's really such layout in a folder, then there's a good chance that it's being intention 22.04.22 # did any of the above answers affected my question 22.04.41 # neldoreth: yes, I asked you to update your local repo 22.04.45 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-163-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 22.05.09 # my system is up 2 date 22.05.17 # concerning the packages in the offic repo 22.05.41 # neldoreth: please use real words here 22.05.46 # sorry 22.06.06 # my system is up to date, if we're talking about the packages in the official repository 22.06.38 # we're not :) The subversion repository 22.07.01 # ah ok 22.07.31 # same error (did configure and make again) 22.08.02 # it seems to be ok on the build table? 22.08.25 # neldoreth: have you tried make clean/make veryclean? 22.08.35 Join Ubuntuxer [0] (n=johannes@dslb-092-073-024-008.pools.arcor-ip.net) 22.08.49 # yes 22.08.59 # and you did svn up? 22.09.03 # yes 22.09.14 # try rm -Rf * in your build dir 22.09.21 # my revision is 20346 22.09.24 # cd BUMBACL0T 22.09.30 # :X 22.09.57 # mcuelenaere: still the same 22.10.21 # * mcuelenaere starts his VM 22.11.13 # http://pastebin.com/m24d6ecad - if youre interested, thats the whole error message 22.11.54 # hmm looks like the bootloaders aren't added to the build table 22.12.11 # uh, right 22.12.30 # so your error will probably be valid :) 22.12.58 # mcuelenaere: which do you think makes sense to add? 22.13.21 # probably the ZVM30GB 22.13.40 # the ZVM60GB is identical and the Zen Vision almost too 22.13.43 Join perrikwp [0] (i=18ac0c41@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5e685394eaa42068) 22.13.48 # ok, I'll add the 30 bootloader 22.14.35 # neldoreth: which target are you building? 22.15.24 # 90 - Zen Vision:M 30GB - and then B(ootloader) 22.15.31 # same error here 22.15.51 # neldoreth: that one is on the build table and shows no error 22.15.55 # Am I correct in thinking that the h100,h300,m5,x5,mrobe100 are the targets with lcd remote? 22.16.01 # kugel: no, not the bootloader 22.16.03 # kugel: no it's not 22.16.07 # oh sorry 22.16.10 # it will be at next commit! 22.17.22 # BigBambi_: and mr500 22.17.24 # ok 22.17.29 # this happens when such functions aren't #ifdef'd (like they should) 22.17.40 # poor kugels are trapped :( 22.17.46 # JdGordon: Thanks. 22.18.20 # speaking of which.... kugel I lied apparently last night when i said the rec had a remote lcd... 22.18.33 # Bagder: can you also add the e200v2 main build ? its still missing in the build table :-) 22.18.35 # JdGordon|w: I noticed 22.18.44 # domonoky: oh certainly! 22.18.50 Quit MethoS-- (Connection timed out) 22.19.05 # oh FFS.... i forgot to forward ports... Bagder you added my server back in yet? 22.19.05 # Llorean, kugel: I've read the log and still don't like putting "03" before "1". It does not interpret a sequence of digits as "a whole number" (as the menu entry promises). And I'd only care about integers because fractions are subject to localization (in Germany, a dot is used as a group separator, not as a decimal point) 22.19.13 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-166-066.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 22.19.22 # JdGordon: oh not yet, I forgot about it! 22.19.44 # So any non-digit char would terminate a sequence of digits after which it should be converted to a number 22.19.59 # fml: it doesn't have todo with localization. It's the same for all chars, not only the dot 22.20.08 # fml: This way works with commas as a decimal mark too. 22.20.36 # Bagder: did you add? 22.20.58 # Llorean: err.... But not with group separators, right? 22.21.21 # kugel: I added, but what specifically are you asking about? 22.21.31 # the e200v2 22.21.36 # yeah, added now 22.21.42 # and the zvm30 bootloader 22.21.45 # so I hit the commit button 22.21.52 # fml: Group separators still work as individual numbers work. 22.21.52 # go go go 22.22.05 # Llorean: how would "10.002" and "20" be sorted? 22.22.08 # after a test build :p 22.22.13 # fml: 10.002, 20 22.22.16 # * Bagder regenerates a set of target name pictures too 22.22.18 Quit AndyI () 22.22.34 # * JdGordon|w thinks thats wrong 22.22.42 # 20 should be before 10.002 22.22.45 # hahaha 22.22.50 # it never ends 22.23.05 # oh wait... this is what work does to me... /me shuts up 22.23.11 # * gevaerts proposes to revert the entire thing until people know what they want 22.23.13 # fml: Oh, you mean "10.002" as ten thousand and two, not a group of two numbers, 10 and 002? 22.23.30 # Llorean: yes 22.23.35 # You can't ever sort that right 22.23.36 # Period. 22.23.43 # can we scrap the whole thing and just let the user define a set of sort rules? 22.23.43 # Llorean: or comma :) 22.23.45 # Not without localization-specific sort algorithms. 22.23.59 # * Bagder prepares the channel for the grand... 100 BUILD TABLE 22.24.05 # stand back 22.24.10 # * JdGordon|w holds on 22.24.14 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (i=thunderc@persistence.flat.devzero.co.uk) 22.24.17 # * kugel cries 22.24.19 # JdGordon|w: Drop natural sort entirely, then add a scripting engine in whereby the user can write their own sorting algorithms. 22.24.25 # You *can't* do localization-specific algorithms unless all titles are in the same language, which is absolutely not a given with music 22.24.37 # Llorean: yes 22.24.47 # * Bagder would prefer lcd_enable() to be an empty macro for the targets without it 22.24.50 # Llorean: ok, so any non digit symbol means that a sequence of digits has ended, right? But then I don't get why "03" goes before "1" 22.25.01 # it doesnt have to be complicated, just some simple mechanism to allow the user to decide how they want it 22.25.08 # fml: Because that's the way the original algorithm works. 22.25.19 # * JdGordon|w takes that back... heaven forbid we allow the user to choose anything 22.25.21 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22.25.24 # fml: Give me a case whereby someone *accidentally* put a 0 before a 3, and didn't mean it to be there on purpose to alter the sort? 22.25.38 # JdGordon|w: having this as an option is more than most other pieces of software do 22.25.48 # and thats bad why? 22.25.48 # Llorean: the files may have been ripped at different times. 22.25.48 # Does the build server cache SSH hosts keys? I'm moving hosts and the host key is going to be different. 22.25.53 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22.25.55 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 22.25.57 # * gevaerts doesn't think that "this original algorithm we found somewhere does it this way" is a good reason for any decision 22.26.01 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 22.26.02 # jhulst: it actually ignores them 22.26.12 # JdGordon|w: I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying that complaining that we don't allow users choice is just stupid. 22.26.25 # Bagder: Well, it just proved it anyway. The build is running on the new machine fine... 22.26.31 # hehe 22.26.39 # fml: Using different programs then? 22.26.54 # Llorean: e.g. if I had this option from the beginning, I wouldn't put leading zeroes in the file names. But I did. Now I wouldn't do that again. 22.27.05 # Why? 22.27.05 # rasher: that last line was a sarcastic complaint about our general reluctance/refusal to even give the user a choice.. about anything 22.27.07 # fml: If they come from different albums, why to they need to be sorted relative to one another. If they came from one, you have a pretty complex situation to get to a case where you have 03, 2 and it needs to be in the other order. 22.27.17 # fml: 1 still sorts before 10 22.27.23 # JdGordon|w: That's still a stupid thing to say. 22.27.30 # fml: Do you really have songs that need numerical order, but have 03, 2, 4, 5 in one folder (and not separate folders)? 22.27.32 # meh 22.27.48 # Bagder, jhulst: is there anything that would explain the delayed delta from the 18:59 with the 2 builds made on jhulst.com (OndioSP and Gigabeat S)? 22.27.48 # ok, compiling works now - mkzenboot got the next suprise: Decrypted length of encoded block is unexpectedly large: 0xf38a60de 22.28.00 # Llorean: its not hard to imagine that happening in the database 22.28.05 # Llorean: we're talking about sorting in general, not about sorting within an album or such. 22.28.19 # JdGordon|w: Database doesn't use the nat sort anyway. It has its own way to deal with track numbers. So that's irrelevant 22.28.26 # fml: We're talking about _filetree_ sorting. 22.28.28 # oh.. ok 22.28.40 # pixelma: I can't explain it right now anyway 22.29.09 # fml: So, give me a case where someone has labelled songs 2, 03, 4 and expects them to play in that order. 22.29.14 # Llorean: hrmm, right 22.29.25 # I can understand someone labelling songs 8, 9, 10, 11 and expecting them to play in that order 22.29.37 # But if someone types in the numbers 2, 03, 4, I wouldn't think they did that "accidentally" and still want it in that order. 22.29.41 # pixelma, Bagder: Not sure if it makes any difference, but the host change also includes a change in IP address, so DNS might be incorrect. Can't think of why that would change anything though... 22.29.51 Quit sarixe ("Leaving") 22.30.49 # "100 builds in 423 seconds" 22.31.18 # Llorean: there _are_ cases where naming schemas get mixed. I for example have some albums with leading zeroes and others (not many) without. Then I make a dir with "my favorite songs" and copy songs from different dirs. This way they do get mixed. 22.31.45 # Llorean: See! 22.31.45 Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180067019.adsl.alicedsl.de) 22.31.51 # fml: do you care about order in that case? 22.32.17 # gevaerts: not when listening, but we're talking about sorting! :-) 22.32.37 # fml: Why not just make a "favorites" playlist? And, why does order matter there, since they come from different albums? 22.32.44 # Do you number them based on preference so the favorite one plays first? 22.32.50 # neldoreth: what version of the OF are you using? 22.32.58 # fml: even then. track number based ordering *only* works if the tracks are in the same context 22.33.08 # rasher: I fail to see how the ordering matters in that case, though. 22.33.08 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@host-091-096-209-016.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 22.33.50 # mcuelenaere: argh, i am guessing the wrong one, when there is written a explicit 60GB in the executeable, but that was the only one on their website 22.33.58 # * gevaerts wants IXX to sort after X 22.34.12 # neldoreth: there's a problem with the 60GB firmwares and Blowfish 22.34.15 # Llorean: no, it's only the expected order in the file view that matters. With natural sorting, I'd expect "04" after "3". But I understand that it's a question of the definition of what is natural. 22.34.21 # (actually Blowfish and the 60GB key) 22.34.31 # * mcuelenaere isn't sure whether it's Blowfish actually 22.34.47 # mcuelenaere: ah ok, i will check if i can find any other version 22.35.09 # the 30GB version is available on the Creative site, you'll only need to look for 'older models' (below on the support page) 22.35.28 # or is that XIX? 22.35.28 # * gevaerts is confused 22.37.00 # XIX, I believe 22.37.10 # mcuelenaere: hm it lists only "Creative ZEN Vision:M 60 GB Firmware 1.21.02e (For Europe only)" 22.37.39 # gevaerts: I think it's the Cs that'll start throwing things for a loop 22.38.08 # neldoreth: http://support.creative.com/Products/product_list.aspx?catID=213&CatName=MP3+Players 22.38.32 # It's written in small: If your product is not listed above, please click here. 22.38.49 # Llorean: the L I think 22.39.05 # Oh, forgot about L 22.39.17 # mcuelenaere: ah thank you - i went over "Support > Select Your Product > ZEN Vision:M > Download" 22.39.20 Quit jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]") 22.39.42 # Anyway roman numerals are sort-safe for a very big majority of albums I think. You can have up to 47 tracks before getting in trouble 22.40.33 # even up to 48 22.43.37 Join robin0800 [0] (n=quassel@general-ld-216.t-mobile.co.uk) 22.44.00 # ok lets see what happens :D 22.44.43 # * mcuelenaere doesn't expect it to do much, except loading the OF.. 22.44.52 Quit __lifeless (Remote closed the connection) 22.45.01 Join __lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@94.51.255.145) 22.45.33 # hm he got some problems :| 22.45.55 # http://pastebin.com/m610d1327 22.46.26 # naah, looks normal 22.46.40 # however, the 'Error sending file.' looks not OK 22.46.46 # what does your device do? 22.46.54 Quit MethoS-- (Connection timed out) 22.47.03 # ok it said after that it is still updating - now it rebooted 22.47.22 # for a short amount of time i saw about 3 small lines, but i couldnt read anything 22.47.24 # that's normal 22.47.34 # yeah, that was the bootloader ;) 22.47.57 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-43540968.dyn.optonline.net) 22.48.06 # that's about it you can do currently without taking your HDD out.. 22.48.14 # s/you/what you/ 22.48.39 # ah nice, so everything went fine 22.49.43 # WIth the natural sorting, "_abc" goes after "zzz". Is it ok? 22.50.15 # thank you all for your patience and support 22.50.23 Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.51.30 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 22.51.39 Quit neldoreth ("leaving") 22.52.01 Join neldoreth [0] (n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth) 22.53.04 Join akur [0] (n=akur@bl6-150-194.dsl.telepac.pt) 22.53.06 Part akur 22.53.07 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-166-003.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 22.56.33 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) 22.57.18 Quit MTee (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22.57.31 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 22.59.42 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") 23.01.49 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) 23.02.12 Join HellDragon [0] (n=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) 23.03.11 Join MethoS- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-162-166.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 23.03.12 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (i=41585845@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37) 23.05.31 Join miepchen^schla [0] (n=miepel@p579EC87D.dip.t-dialin.net) 23.06.42 # Bagder: Do we have many subscribers to the digest version of the Rockbox list? 23.07.07 # I don't know, I can't list that very easilt 23.07.32 # it's a checkbox for each user, I can select users by that condition 23.08.06 # It's just annoying to see replies to digests, so I had an evil thought about how to solve that problem.... 23.08.38 # I think similarly... 23.09.28 # Surely every modern (and old...) email client can filter a email list into its own folder? 23.11.30 Quit robin0800 ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") 23.12.10 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") 23.12.19 # yes, but it's more of a people thing 23.12.39 # some people just get scared by the thought of receiving "many" emails 23.13.45 # I'm more scared of reading digests which contain some 1x pages or more :/ 23.14.05 # Or receiving digests with responses to three or four random emails scattered inside them. 23.14.25 # I don't really think it'd be unreasonable to say "If you plan to respond, don't subscribe to the digest" 23.15.46 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.15.59 # can't the digest mails have some kind of modified header so replies can be auto rejected? 23.16.55 # well, the outgoing headers won't be kept on replies by the average mail client 23.17.02 # rasher: But there will always be people who don't plan to respond, but then want to... 23.17.03 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.17.32 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=lem@dyndsl-085-016-165-025.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 23.17.40 # I like the "forward" feature on lkml.org for that 23.18.27 Join robin0800 [0] (n=quassel@general-kt-199.t-mobile.co.uk) 23.19.28 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 23.21.23 Quit Lss (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.21.45 Quit tyfoo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.22.24 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23.22.47 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit) 23.22.48 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.23.02 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.178) 23.23.20 Quit sarixe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23.23.23 Join robin0800 [0] (n=quassel@general-kt-199.t-mobile.co.uk) 23.23.58 Join taylor_ [0] (n=taylor@c-24-91-82-205.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) 23.27.04 Quit Ubuntuxer ("Leaving.") 23.28.11 # Llorean: Is there an additional module for SMF which allows staff to attach "post-it notes" to users? 23.28.11 # pixelma: hey, can you give 9795 a try? (just incase you forgot about it :) ) 23.30.30 # soap: There's actually a few add-ons for SMF that allow admins to attach notes to a user's profile or similar. 23.30.51 # I don't know how many will apply in the state our copy's in (add-ons are basically source-code diffs in that adding more makes it less likely future ones will work unmodified) 23.31.25 # JdGordon|w: what the exact difference between update() and gui_wps_refresh= 23.31.56 # I'm calling the latter one in FS#8523 when the screen turns on again 23.32.28 # umm... i cant remember... it should be obivous looking at the code though 23.32.43 # one actually reloads the wps if its invalid and automatically does both screens 23.33.39 Quit dfkt ("-= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.") 23.34.02 # ahh, I just thought it would be an easy way to hold a long-distance dialogue. There are many people whose messages clutter the garbage bin, and I never know if they have been talked to, or who knows what about who. 23.34.14 Quit bertrik ("Leaving") 23.35.33 # soap: Notes would be handy. Maybe it can be looked into at some point. Especially if we upgrade and need to reinstall plugins anyway. 23.37.05 # JdGordon|w: neither do it for both screens, I think 23.37.53 # hm, seems update() does it by calling gui_wps_display 23.38.41 # one has a FOR_NB_SCREENS() call... 23.39.18 # * kugel spots statusbar drawing in gui_wps_show and isn't sure if it belongs there 23.39.58 # gui_wps_display, I mean 23.40.03 # this is all confusing, imo 23.40.34 # wait 2 hours or so and we can talk when i get home? 23.41.02 Join cmwslw [0] (n=cmwslw@c-68-59-238-111.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) 23.43.25 Quit nuonguy ("This computer has gone to sleep") 23.44.56 # Just to give you guys an update, the linux4nano project is going well 23.45.08 # we've identified almost every piece of hardware, and we have been analyzing the firmware 23.45.25 # if we work hard, we might be able to run custom code on it during the summer 23.45.54 # which summer? :) 23.45.56 # cmwslw: so you have been able to run your own code on it? 23.46.01 # I mean, any code 23.46.24 # I thought that was the primary problem, not what the hw components are 23.46.34 # He means, "by summer" 23.46.49 # I think? 23.46.59 # not yet, but if we can gather enough information it would be a lot easier to crack it 23.46.59 # * gevaerts still agrees with JdGordon|w :) 23.47.09 # yes 23.47.11 # * bluebrother wonders what summer is :P 23.47.20 # Whose summer, too. 23.47.22 # I think that's a pretty wild guess 23.47.31 # northern hemisphere :) 23.47.32 # sorry 23.47.35 # * bluebrother agrees with Bagder 23.47.40 # it is just a guess 23.47.43 # cmwslw: Do you have any specific interesting weaknesses, or just hopes? 23.47.43 # be nice... its not like its zunelinux.... 23.47.51 # * LambdaCalculus37 agress with Bagder as well 23.48.00 # Ok guys, lets get off the "summer" thing and give cmwslw a break, please 23.48.09 # I'm not trying to be negative, it's just that afaik nobody has a good clue on the encryption or the breakage of it 23.48.11 # well the nano 4G is surprisingly similar to the iPod touch 2G 23.48.34 # And what of the nano 3G and nano 2G? 23.48.34 # pretty much the same exact hardware 23.48.50 # * bluebrother is wondering why he is not surprised 23.48.52 # cmwslw: The older iPods and the Sansa were almost the exact same hardware. Didn't mean anything about the original firmware (or how to load our own) was at all similar. 23.49.01 # cmwslw: You probably want to investigate this from a software angle. 23.49.09 # My offer still stands. If you get to the point where a legit. attack against the encryption is identified, write up a proper grant request and (upon verification of feasibility) I'll fund needed hardware/beer. 23.49.25 Quit tchan ("WeeChat 0.2.7-dev") 23.49.47 # soap: Do we know what type of encryption it uses yet? 23.49.52 # AES 23.49.54 # I sure don't. 23.49.58 # AES 23.50.00 # taylor_: how? 23.50.05 # do "we" know that 23.50.14 # the aupd partition is RC4 23.50.22 # we know by the keys. They are almost similar to iphone 23.50.26 # the osos is probably AES 23.50.51 # cmwslw: aupd has been decrypted in previous firmwares, its osos thats the problem 23.51.03 # yea 23.51.14 # soap: well donate some money then :) we already _know_ what we have to do 23.51.27 # surely there's some digital sig? 23.51.28 # no we don't 23.51.29 Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 23.51.35 # Hold your horses, taylor_. 23.51.36 # just a symetric crypto doesn't make sense to me 23.51.43 # we've known for two years 23.51.51 # well what then? 23.51.59 # its just no one has the time/money/knowledge 23.52.14 # we need to hook up an FPGA to the ipod instead of memory 23.52.22 # And wait it out? 23.52.46 # fpga instead of memory? 23.52.52 # ye 23.52.54 # yes 23.53.00 # Llorean: That'll take a while. 23.53.01 # to alter memory contents 23.53.33 # LambdaCalculus37: Yeah, just saw FPGA and responded. Didn't notice the other weirdness. i was thinking that article about using arrays of FPGAs to "quickly" break encryption. 23.54.08 # Theres no way we can brute force crypto unless we link 10,000 machines over a network. or even just a couple hundred if you had a few days ;) 23.54.37 # If the key's symmetric, don't you already have it somewhere? 23.54.42 # taylor_: so why would the "fpga way" work? 23.54.46 # I mean, wouldn't the key necessarily be available to the AUPD partition? 23.54.52 # it would still assume encrypted data 23.54.54 # to dump the mem 23.55.13 # what mem? 23.55.17 # Llorean, Bagder: I was thinking similarly. 23.55.19 # FPGA isnt to neccessarily decrypt, its to dump the runtime mem 23.55.36 # why do you need an FPGA for that? 23.55.45 # I don't follow this logic either 23.56.00 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving. I cannot promise to be back but most likely will.") 23.56.04 # FPGA's are like microprocessors 23.56.09 # yes 23.56.17 # again, legit grant request, passes muster, I'll pay. No on random donations. 23.56.17 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.178) 23.56.26 # but you can insert them to capture the mem, 23.56.32 # you program what gates you want 23.56.33 # thats what davidc and perror said anayways 23.56.57 # why don't you just snoop the bus? What's the point of using FPGAs? 23.57.10 # you wouldn't use an fpga for that 23.57.12 # well, Im sure there are other ways 23.57.13 # That's a very messy method of doing this. 23.57.15 Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-172-77.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 23.57.28 # gevaerts has the right idea. Snoop the bus during a firmware upgrade. 23.57.40 # the hard part is probably to get to it 23.57.44 # Well, Im sure davidc knows what he is talking about, but if there are any other hw ideas, please share 23.57.53 # how would listening in on the bus help 23.58.02 # the firmware is decrypted at runtime 23.58.10 # not during firmware upgrades 23.58.17 # either way, we need hw we dont have 23.58.29 # cmwslw: then reading ram won't work either 23.58.50 # Taylor, we don't need any hardware until we know exactly what to do 23.58.55 # yes it will