--- Log for 19.08.109  Server: leguin.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 13 hours and 47 minutes ago

00.00.02 #       <mcuelenaere> (or vice versa)
00.00.08 #       <JdGordon|> yeah, i have
00.00.09 #       <JdGordon|> works fine
00.00.16 #       <mcuelenaere> it doesn't here ?
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00.01.01 #       <JdGordon|> there is a very minor bug going from 3 to 32 and vice versa... but if thats what your talking about i wouldnt worry
00.01.47 #       <mcuelenaere> that's what I'm talking about
00.01.53 #       <mcuelenaere> and there's a flyspray report about it ;)
00.02.00 #       <JdGordon|> AH! thats not the menu at all...
00.02.06 #       <JdGordon|> thats option_select()
00.02.50 #       <webguest> hey could anyone tell me how to uninstall rockbox off my sansa e250r
00.03.28 #       <JdGordon|> the wiki and manual and rbutil all make it very simple
00.04.15 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03rmenes (r22412): A few non-translation fixes for Tagalog.
00.04.23 #       <webguest> so i can uninstall it the same way you would uninstall it on a e200
00.04.30 #       <kugel> mcuelenaere: LCD_WIDTH/10 still is a bit low, btw (imo)
00.04.56 #       <JdGordon|> webguest: yes
00.05.03 #       <mcuelenaere> kugel: you want the scrollbar to fill up whole your screen? ;)
00.05.20 #       <mcuelenaere> but sure, go ahead and increase it
00.06.07 #       <kugel> no, but it's only 17 on a e200. and still only 6 on my clip
00.06.11 #       <JdGordon|> mcuelenaere: can you change the left/right side setting to not apply on the fly? its almost never displayed in that setting and feels really wierd having the space move
00.06.36 #       <JdGordon|> kugel: do MIN(30,LCD_WIDTH/10)
00.07.12 #       <JdGordon|> I mean MAX
00.07.12 #       <mcuelenaere> JdGordon|: how? use 2 variables and only update the actual one when leaving the screen?
00.07.28 #       <JdGordon|> mcuelenaere: just give it the F_TEMPVAR flag in settings_list
00.08.50 #       <JdGordon|> *may not be named that actually*
00.08.54 #       <JdGordon|> something along those lines
00.09.10 #       <mcuelenaere> perhaps I should also use that for scrollbar width to fix that..
00.09.31 #       <JdGordon|> no... that live updating is great
00.09.54 #       <JdGordon|> its probalby a 2 line change in optino_select.c
00.09.55 #       <mcuelenaere> yeah I think so too, but the bug isn't :)
00.10.23 #       <Bagder> Zagor: broken build client?
00.10.43 #       <Zagor> Bagder: yes, I'm testing some changes. they didn't work too well...
00.10.46 #       <freqmod_qu> kugel: Is http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg154659#msg154659 a bug report? ( i.e should i have posted it in the test build thread? )
00.11.00 #       <webguest> .do i need to put it in  manufacture mode
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00.12.50 #       <mcuelenaere> JdGordon|: redrawing the menu after the item changes works, but you can see the scrollbar rapidly switching from 24 to 3 pixels
00.13.00 #       <mcuelenaere> also I'm not sure if this breaks anything..
00.13.17 #       <JdGordon|> you're not in the menu :)
00.13.31 #       <mcuelenaere> redrawing the list* :)
00.13.51 #       <JdGordon|> and no, I dont tinhk there should be an issue redrawing the list *after* the setting changes.. in fact I would think that would be the better place for it
00.14.12 #       <mcuelenaere> I suppose list_do_action() does a list redraw?
00.14.19 #       <JdGordon|> yeah
00.14.21 #       <JdGordon|> damn
00.14.23 #       <JdGordon|> that just clicked
00.14.46 #       <JdGordon|> selection change -> redraw -> callback -> redraw(?)
00.15.00 #       <mcuelenaere> yep
00.15.02 #       <JdGordon|> bugger it.. close it as wont fix
00.15.04 #       <mcuelenaere> that's what I meant
00.15.06 #       <JdGordon|> its not a big deal
00.15.15 #       <mcuelenaere> or just commit it with the glitch?
00.15.30 #       <mcuelenaere> I think correct behaviour with a small glitch is better over incorrect behaviour
00.15.36 #       <mcuelenaere> then*
00.15.37 #       <JdGordon|> no.. redraws are pointless
00.16.28 #       <JdGordon|> I havnt looked at that code in ages so cant give any other ideas
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00.17.52 #       <kugel> freqmod_qu: I deleted 2 or 3 posts between us
00.18.01 #       <freqmod_qu> kugel: ok
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00.19.19 #       <kugel> mcuelenaere: what glitch?
00.20.05 #       <mcuelenaere> kugel: add gui_synclist_draw(&lists); to apps/gui/option_select.c after line 517 and go from biggest to smallest scrollbar width
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00.21.59 #       <kugel> I can't see that glitch
00.22.13 #       <kugel> oh I did try something else
00.22.37 #       <kugel> I think going with F_TEMPVAR is the way to go
00.22.50 #       <mcuelenaere> then you don't have live updating anymore
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00.23.20 #       <webguest> i still can't uninstall rockbox 
00.24.31 #       <kugel> mcuelenaere: in the if ()?
00.24.42 #       <JdGordon|> mcuelenaere: I thinkk leave it as is... I'll try to remember to have a looktonight... there might be a trick we could use here
00.25.05 #       <mcuelenaere> kugel: http://pastebin.com/f6d356de5
00.25.16 #       <JdGordon|> also, all these status/scroll bar settings should get moved to the themes menu
00.25.21 #       <kugel> mcuelenaere: ah after
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00.25.28 #       <kugel> there's no glitch here
00.25.49 #       <kugel> it rapidly gets small, but isn't that what you wanted?
00.25.55 #       <JdGordon|> go from 3 to max
00.26.02 #       <mcuelenaere> no, the other way around
00.26.07 #       <JdGordon|> either
00.26.10 #       <webguest> my e200r isnt working with the e200 uninstall instructions
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00.26.13 #       <mcuelenaere> you can't see it from 3 to max as it'll get bigger
00.26.24 #       <mcuelenaere> wider*
00.26.46 #       <kugel> works here (e200 sim)
00.26.57 #       <mcuelenaere> if you go from max to 3, it'll first draw the wide scrollbar with the indicator-thingy pointing below, and then it will shrink to the smaller version
00.27.13 #       * mcuelenaere can't really explain :)
00.27.55 #       <kugel> it totally looks fine here
00.28.11 #       <mcuelenaere> it probably redraws faster then you can see on your CPU
00.28.25 #       <mcuelenaere> anyway, JdGordon| was against that fix
00.28.38 #       <kugel> if that works, why not?
00.28.52 #       <mcuelenaere> it's an extra redraw for all option_list's
00.28.52 #       <JdGordon|> redraw that list twice EVERY selection change
00.29.11 #       <kugel> remove the other redraw :p
00.29.21 #       <JdGordon|> its the list handling
00.30.16 #       <webguest> cant i just delete it from my computer
00.30.47 #       <JdGordon|> oh for goodness sake.. read the manual.... its as easy as start rbutil and press uninstall
00.31.10 #       <kugel> JdGordon|: e200r doesn't work with rbutil
00.31.22 #       <JdGordon|> really?
00.31.27 #       <kugel> really
00.31.35 #       <JdGordon|> I thhuoght it was the same once you did the first bit manually?
00.31.38 #       <kugel> the manual has the manual instructions though (IIRC)
00.31.58 #       <kugel> he wants to uninstall, and that's part of the bits that are different
00.32.27 #       <webguest> so how do i uninstall the stuff off my e200r
00.32.29 #       <mcuelenaere> yes==false and no==true in BOOL_SETTING in settings_list.c ?
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00.33.33 #       <kugel> mcuelenaere: BOOL_SETTING can be anything, do you mean ONOFF_SETTING?
00.33.57 #       <mcuelenaere> no, I mean BOOL_SETTING
00.34.13 #       <kugel> well, you choose what true and false is in BOOL_SETTING
00.34.42 #       <mcuelenaere> the default order when displaying a BOOL_SETTING is first the 'no' option and second the 'yes' option?
00.34.49 #       <mcuelenaere> (yes and no according to the macro syntax)
00.35.08 #       <kugel> do you mean litterally "yes" and "no"?
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00.35.42 #       <mcuelenaere> I mean the "yes" and "no" in BOOL_SETTING(flags,var,lang_id,default,name,cfgvals,yes,no,cb) 
00.36.25 #       <kugel> no idea
00.38.53 #       <webguest> i cant  find any intructions on the e200r page
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00.39.20 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22413): Add comment to the BOOL_SETTING macro; use that macro for OFFON_SETTING (FS#10544)
00.41.24 #       <kugel> webguest: which page?
00.42.00 #       <kugel> ehh, there's really no uninstallation instructins
00.42.15 #       <kugel> which leads to the question: webguest, why do you want to uninstall? :p
00.42.18 #       <webguest> so how do i do it
00.42.33 #       <JdGordon|> mcuelenaere: you maybe should have done the scrollbar setting like ths statusbar... off/left/right instead of 2 settings
00.42.40 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22414): Scrollbar position: only update it when exiting the menu + FS#10539 by Alexander Levin (change the order of Left/Right)
00.42.41 #       <kugel> no idea really, have you tried updating with an unpatched original firmware?
00.43.00 #       <JdGordon|> boooo!!! the live updating was great
00.43.18 #       <mcuelenaere> JdGordon|: this is the position, not the width ;)
00.43.22 #       <kugel> then fix it :)
00.43.23 #       <webguest> i have to run it in rhapsody mode, which won't allow me to play some songs unless its in playsforsure mode
00.43.32 #       <JdGordon|> mcuelenaere: ah sweet :)
00.43.37 #       <kugel> can't we have a F_LIFEUPDATE flag?
00.43.39 #       * JdGordon| learns to read
00.43.44 #       <webguest> i dont think i have any unpatched original firmware
00.43.48 #       <kugel> only do the redraw in that case?
00.43.49 #       <JdGordon|> kugel: thats what F_TEMPVAR is
00.43.53 #       <mcuelenaere> kugel: life update? :)
00.44.07 #       <kugel> JdGordon|: TEMPVAR does the opposite
00.44.21 #       <JdGordon|> yes
00.44.39 #       <kugel> if (flags & F_LIVEUPDATE) gui_synclist_draw();
00.45.10 #       <mcuelenaere> is Alexander Levin in here?
00.45.39 #       <webguest> so how should i uninstall it?
00.45.57 #       <JdGordon|> no. redrawing twice sucks
00.46.13 #       <kugel> for settings that want it (only this one) it's ok imo
00.46.34 #       <mcuelenaere> JdGordon|: off/left/right sounds great, go for it! ;)
00.46.42 #       <pamaury> Hello
00.46.58 #       <JdGordon|> I'm at work... all yours :)
00.47.55 #       <pamaury> I have a question about MTP: did someone ever tried to implement it on rockbox (or is doing so) ?
00.48.19 #       <funman> pamaury: tomers did project to do it, not sure how far he went
00.48.33 #       <funman> webguest: looks like nobody present knows, try writing to the mailing list
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00.49.12 #       <webguest> mailing list?
00.49.28 #       <mcuelenaere> funman: I don't think tomers was going to do MTP, just HID + dynamic USB modules
00.49.28 #       <funman> http://www.rockbox.org/mail/
00.49.31 #       <fml> mcuelenaere: hello! How about different widths for scrollbars on the main and remote?
00.49.44 #       <mcuelenaere> fml: hi, could you commit your manual patch?
00.49.44 #       <kugel> webguest: download a OF from sandisk and update your e200r with it
00.49.51 #       <kugel> that should work
00.50.01 #       <webguest> okay i'll try it
00.50.14 #       <fml> mcuelenaere: I just wanted to ask you whether you have looked into it. Is everything there correct?
00.50.16 #       <pamaury> And is MTP a really wanted feature ? (question for both users and dev)
00.50.23 #       <mcuelenaere> fml: looks great
00.50.37 #       <fml> mcuelenaere: ok, I'll commit it then.
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00.50.40 #       <mcuelenaere> fml: how's remote scrollbar width handled now? the same variable width for both of the screens?
00.50.43 #       <JdGordon|> and yeah, any UI settings shuold be seperate for the remote and main lcd
00.50.52 #       <funman> do the e200r use the same OF than e200v1 ?
00.51.33 #       <mcuelenaere> pamaury: there was once a report on the forums of someone looking into MTP for Rockbox, but haven't heard anything about it
00.52.04 #       <kugel> also, statusbar and scrollbar really ought to be in theme settings IMO
00.52.33 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22415): update for the recently added 'Scrollbar Width/Position' settings (FS#10538)
00.53.11 #       <mcuelenaere> I just put it there because the original scrollbar en-/disable was there
00.54.19 #       <fml> mcuelenaere, JdGordon: yes, some settings should be split to have separate ones for the main and the remote. And maybe grouped differently in the menu.
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00.55.16 #       <JdGordon|> not some... all
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00.55.55 #       <fml> JdGordon: scrollbar position could be used for both, no need to split it IMO
00.56.22 #       <JdGordon|> for consistancy I would sya it should be split
00.56.25 #       <kugel> just add theme settings and remote theme settings and split all
00.56.34 #       <fml> But to be a purist...
00.56.44 #       <fml> He-he, you're faster! :-)
00.56.58 #       <pamaury> gevaerts: are you there ?
00.57.06 #       <JdGordon|> thats what happens when you dont care about spelling and grammer :)
00.57.16 #       <fml> We could even introduce a struct for that. The question is how this would plug into the settings saving engine
00.57.25 #       <JdGordon|> kugel: yeah sounds good.. want to do it? :)
00.57.39 #       <JdGordon|> not easily
00.57.49 #       <JdGordon|> but yes, doubling up everywhere is annoying
00.57.54 #       <JdGordon|> and wasteful
00.58.05 #       <gevaerts> pamaury: depends. I'm somewhere anyway :)
00.58.19 #       <fml> Not sleeping at this time is also wasteful. Bye!
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00.58.33 #       <JdGordon|> hehe
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00.59.52 #       <pamaury> gevaerts: Shouldn't the prototype of usb_serial_send have a const ?
01.02.57 #       <kugel> hmm, the cabbie statusbar doesn't look as nice on 220x176 (compared too 176x220) due to widescreen
01.03.29 #       <kugel> cabbiev2 wastes a lot of space due to the giant rockbox logo in the wps :(
01.04.56 #       <pamaury> Is it worth implementing MTP on rockbox or is it quite useless/fancy ? It doesn't seem too hard to implement.
01.05.40 #       <JdGordon|> I tohught it was on the nodo list?
01.05.43 #       <funman> tomers work should make this easier (dynamic usb drivers)
01.06.01 #       <gevaerts> pamaury: I agree about usb_serial_send. I'll commit your patch soon
01.06.12 #       <gevaerts> JdGordon|: is it? I wouldn't know why...
01.06.16 #       <LambdaCalculus37> JdGordon|: I thought that some people weren't really too against MTP.
01.06.19 #       <pamaury> gevaerts: I submit on FS, anyway it's a two line long patch :)
01.06.25 #       <funman> JdGordon|: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NoDo no it isn't
01.06.30 #       <JdGordon|> ok ok.. i was wrong...
01.06.38 #       <gevaerts> pamaury: I'd like to see an mtp implementation some day, so if you want to have a go, feel free
01.06.49 #       <LambdaCalculus37> JdGordon|: IIRC it was discussed that MTP would make it easier for some people to sync with certain media apps.
01.06.59 #       <tmzt> funman: r has different usb settings, not sure what you mean by same OF, it could be the same build/image or not
01.07.29 #       <funman> tmzt: sandisk only offer a "e200v1 firmware", no "e200r firmware"
01.07.58 #       <JdGordon|> they dont have a rasposdy firmware?
01.08.02 #       <pamaury> gevaerts: I looked at it and did some preliminary test, the protocol simple to implement. The hard work is to support the huge number of operations/properties :)
01.08.16 #       <JdGordon|> otherwise the e200r and e200 are technically the same
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01.10.58 #       <pamaury> gevaerts: Don't know if Itold you: I made tests on usb_drv_arc with the STREAM bit in USBCMD but it didn't seem to change anything. Anyway the RM explanation is quite unclear to me :)
01.12.31 #       <gevaerts> ah, I hadn'e seen that
01.13.16 #       <mcuelenaere> MTP would make it able to add/remove files while doing something else on the device, right?
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01.14.24 #       <gevaerts> it should, yes
01.14.29 #       <pamaury> Technically yes
01.15.09 #       <gevaerts> it should also allow us to do realtime database updates
01.15.11 #       <kugel> e200r has the same hardware (same rockbox build), but a different bootloader and installation
01.15.36 #       <mcuelenaere> doesn't MTP also have time sync?
01.15.50 #       * mcuelenaere knows it has battery status output
01.17.58 #       <pamaury> basically, MTP allows you to read/write/reset nearly every property on any objet (object=file generally). This includes lots of things like date, time, songs properties, ...
01.18.35 #       <pamaury> the same applies for the device, which includes of course battery level and playback properties
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01.19.43 #       <JdGordon|> you can set battery level from mtp?
01.19.48 #       <JdGordon|> from the computer i mean?
01.20.19 #       <tmzt> mtp should be able to update the secure clock
01.20.34 #       <pamaury> no you can't set battery level :) But you can read it
01.20.46 #       <tmzt> but maybe not main rtc
01.21.03 #       <gevaerts> JdGordon|: yes you can. It's called "charging" :)
01.21.28 #       <pamaury> what is the secure clock ? I don't think I saw this in the MTP spec
01.22.16 #       <tmzt> to do with drm
01.22.49 #       <tmzt> for subscription content
01.23.29 #       <mcuelenaere> doesn't that use the 'normal' RTC on some targets?
01.23.51 #       <pamaury> There is a property about DRM: you can check whether an objet is protected or not but that's all iirc
01.27.06 #       <funman> i'm fed up with this ams guy
01.27.29 #       <pamaury> Did you get what you want from him ?
01.27.29 #       <funman> i'm not even wanting to contact him again
01.27.31 #       <tmzt> “Secure Clock” means a hardware real time clock that has been secured from unauthorized access.
01.27.39 #       <funman> no i didn't even get to talk with him
01.27.52 #       <pamaury> tmzt: why a different one ?
01.27.52 #       <funman> he simply forgot all the meetings we had made (the 3 of them)
01.28.18 #       <pamaury> He probably doesn't want to speak with you :)
01.28.22 #       <funman> if someone want to take over the communication i'll give you his contact information
01.28.39 #       <funman> you could just say i'm doing something else now
01.28.40 #       <tmzt> http://wmlicense.smdisp.net/wmdrmcompliance/doc/Compliance%20Rules%20for%20Microsoft%20Device%20Bridge%20for%20WMDRM%2013_Nov_06.doc
01.29.02 #       <tmzt> another result of the sesrch suggests as35xx has one
01.29.43 #       <mcuelenaere> tmzt: that doesn't imply that the time in the OF isn't based on the same rtc
01.30.18 #       <funman> that implies that you wouldn't be able to modify the OF time?
01.30.30 #       <tmzt> I understand it to mean that the device owner can't change the time, on the MSDRM software on a host
01.31.01 #       <tmzt> only the ...
01.31.05 #       * mcuelenaere is confused
01.31.11 #       <pamaury> tmzt: I don't think a thing like that in the MTP spec. But there a property called "online subscription id"
01.31.13 #       <mcuelenaere> never mind what I said
01.32.38 #       <tmzt> msybe it's in here: “WMDRM-PD MTP Extensions Technical Documentation”
01.32.54 #       <tmzt> PD is portable devices
01.32.58 #       <pamaury> Ah could be :)
01.34.43 #       <pamaury> I also have a question about storage in rockbox. When multivolume is enabled, you can get the number of storage medium but is there a simple way to map between disk and volumes ? Ie to get the number of disk and which volume belongs to which disk ?
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01.40.52 #       <pamaury> Ok, I'll try to find the answer in the code :) Bye
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02.00.43 #       <Person> Um, excuse me, I put a folder of Ogg Vorbis files on my iPod (Video, 30 GB) and they don't seem to be showing up when I shuffle all. How can I get them to show up in the playlist?
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02.03.32 #       <Unhelpful> JdGordon: did you ever figure out your missing sim AA?
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02.26.13 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22416): Onda's: add touchscreen boot menu for targets without/not much physical buttons (VX777)
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02.47.09 #       <JucaBlues> Recently I've been annoyed by gNewSense policies related to mp3 encoder availability and software patents plus my dad owning an ipod model not supported by rockbox which put me in a dead-end.
02.47.15 #       <JucaBlues> I have read the irc channel guidelines and I hope this is not condidered off-topic. I'd like to discuss rockbox role in this debate.
02.48.40 #       <JucaBlues> when considering my personal choices, I reach the conclusion that I'd like to know which portable music players support ogg natively and are also supported by rockbox
02.48.43 #       <kugel> well, you come at a bad time for that
02.48.55 #       <JucaBlues> why?
02.49.09 #       <kugel> it's usually almost completely silent these hours
02.49.14 #       <JucaBlues> ah, ok
02.49.48 #       <kugel> to your question, the sansa fuze plays ogg in the OF, but is also (almost) supported by rockbox
02.50.53 #       <JucaBlues> what do you mean by "almost" ?
02.51.21 #       <kugel> there are a few issues (mainly with some rare microsd), but it runs fine mostly and there's tools and instructions for installing
02.52.44 #       <JucaBlues> nice. Then this is probably a good ethical choice for me. I want to buy a device from a manufacturer that supports ogg. But at the same time I dont want to use proprietary firmware.
02.54.07 #       <kugel> although there are v2 fuzes yet, which do not run rockbox at all
02.54.51 #       <JucaBlues> now... my dad's ipod is not supported at all. Do you know why? It is a nano 2nd gen
02.55.23 #       <saratoga> work started on that a couple weeks ago
02.55.37 #       <saratoga> someone just recently figured out how to run code on it
02.56.06 #       <JucaBlues> I thought I could eventually buy him a sansa fuze and then try to help nano 2ng gen development 
02.56.15 #       <Unhelpful> JucaBlues: rockbox is entirely a volunteer effort. for a long time nobody had a means to inject code into nano2g... now that that's happened work has *started* on RB for it.
02.56.56 #       <kugel> IIRC it played sound already?
02.57.10 #       <kugel> or was that on the meizu only (which has nearly identical hardware)?
02.58.15 #       <JucaBlues> because my dad's mp3-only ipod forces me to install mp3-encoder in my gNewSense (which is OK legally, because Brazil does not allow software patents, but is ethically controversial)
02.59.51 #       <Unhelpful> JucaBlues: i don't see any ethical problems with using LAME, really
02.59.52 #       <Person> Um, excuse me, I put a folder of Ogg Vorbis files on my iPod (Video, 30 GB) and they don't seem to be showing up when I shuffle all. How can I get them to show up in the playlist?
03.01.10 #       <JucaBlues> Unhelpful: I dont wat to support a patent-encumbered file format, even though it is not a local issue in my country, I'd like to think globally and avoid patented tecnologies at all 
03.02.24 #       <kugel> FOSS isn't free of patens entirely either (though rockbox is)
03.02.54 #       <kugel> patents*
03.04.21 #       <saratoga> lots of rockbox code is patented
03.04.33 #       <saratoga> we just don't pay any attention to it
03.05.22 #       <kugel> oh I didn't know that. what code is patented?
03.05.36 #       <JdGordon> mpeg definetly
03.06.31 #       <saratoga> fat, most of the codecs as well
03.06.56 #       <kugel> there's no patents on code in the EU, so...
03.07.19 #       <kugel> but what do I know ;)
03.07.38 #       * JdGordon knows the skin display code is a bit convoluted :p
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03.09.08 #       <kugel> doesn't matter, the few external functions are sufficient so far :)
03.09.38 #       <kugel> I would like to know why the my custtom sb shows the rewind icon initially
03.09.57 #       <kugel> it doesn't get it from get_token_value()
03.11.11 #       <JdGordon> something  == 0
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03.20.19 #       <JdGordon> did we ever allow viewports to share id's ?
03.22.14 #       <JdGordon> apparently yes... time to fix the code then
03.25.23 #       <kugel> eh
03.25.32 #       <kugel> JdGordon: you advertised that when you committed it
03.25.51 #       <JdGordon> yeah, apparently...
03.26.01 #       <JdGordon> minor oversight in the latest changes...
03.26.03 #       <JdGordon> fixing
03.26.06 #       <kugel> not a bug
03.30.18 #       <JdGordon> whats not a bug?
03.31.34 #       <kugel> sharing ids
03.31.43 #       <JdGordon> I know..
03.31.58 #       <JdGordon> the bug is forgetting they are allowed to be shared
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03.48.45 #       * kugel thinks he fixed all id3 == NULL problems
03.49.12 #       <JdGordon> good good
03.49.13 #       <JdGordon> how?
03.49.18 #       <JdGordon> made the tags safe?
03.49.38 #       <kugel> yea
03.49.50 #       <kugel> return "n/a" or "0" if !id3
03.50.14 #       <JdGordon> excellent :)
03.51.33 #       <JdGordon> does the playback status tag retun anything for stopped?
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03.52.55 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03jdgordon (r22417): conditional viewports are allowed to share labels.. so make sure they are all toggled with %xd<label>
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03.55.24 #       <pixelma> yes
03.55.33 #       <kugel> yes, stopped
03.55.56 #       <JdGordon> ok cool
03.56.05 #       <JdGordon> so people will have to get used to using it :)
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03.57.55 #       <JdGordon> I love how builds are on average faster now but horibble efficiency :)
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04.02.40 #       * kugel would prefer setting sane defaults for id3, other parts might rely on it also
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04.04.19 #       <JdGordon> I'm not sure... I cant imagine that anything else presumes audio is playing
04.05.17 #       <pixelma> really id3 as in metadata or just info about the file (I'm wondering about how things like %?ia is treated if it was the former)?
04.06.34 #       <kugel> well, both
04.06.37 #       <JdGordon> the id3 we are talking about is the track data
04.06.52 #       <JdGordon> tucker time :)
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04.12.47 #       <Unhelpful> JdGordon: did we have a clear measure of efficiency before new build system? :)
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05.08.28 #       <JdGordon> I'm doing memory allocation "backwards" in my buffer... starting at the end and moving towards buf[0]... how do I get the 32bit aligned pointer after decreasing the pointer by size?
05.08.38 #       <JdGordon> like buffer_pos = (void *)(((unsigned long)buffer_pos + 3) & ~3); but not
05.11.10 #       <JdGordon> or do I just add an extra 4 to the requested size and then do the above?
05.14.42 #       * JdGordon prods Unhelpful to prove his nick is wrong!
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05.17.18 #       <Unhelpful> JdGordon: we, um, have a macro to align the start and end of a buffer? ;)
05.17.30 #       <JdGordon> we do?
05.17.48 #       <JdGordon> does what I asked make sense?
05.22.52 #       <JdGordon> its not as stupid/simple as just changing that + to a - is it?
05.27.05 #       <Unhelpful> JdGordon: you want to align an address down, w/ 4B alignment?
05.27.14 #       <JdGordon> yep
05.27.15 #       <Blue_Dude> Hey, anybody tried to use ccache with cygwin?  Does it help?
05.27.22 #       <Unhelpful> it's, um, *more* simple than changing the + to a -. ;)
05.27.42 #       <JdGordon> its just &~3 isnt it? :)
05.28.18 #       <Unhelpful> indeed... &~3 clears the bottom two bits, the +3 is needed to change that from a round-down to a round-up :)
05.28.25 #       <JdGordon> Blue_Dude: amiconn is our resident windows dev dude thingy... I'm pretty sure he at one point did a bunch of cygwin tests
05.28.36 #       <JdGordon> Unhelpful: thanks
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05.28.49 #       <Blue_Dude> JdGordon: and for sure it didn't work?
05.28.56 #       <JdGordon> I dont remember
05.29.02 #       <JdGordon> I think i remember it being slower
05.29.16 #       <JdGordon> Unhelpful: I'm turning this skin buffer into something quite scary :)
05.29.36 #       <Blue_Dude> Well, it's out there in corporate wisdom somewhere...
05.30.00 #       <Unhelpful> JdGordon: excellent... just make sure that it's not nearly the most clever you can make it. ;)
05.30.09 #       <JdGordon> hehe I know :)
05.30.13 #       <JdGordon> I'll try not to
05.30.31 #       <JdGordon> adding lots of comments just in case
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05.54.57 #       <JdGordon> Unhelpful: got a min to have a look at my patch to make sure I didnt do something stupid?
05.55.32 #       <Unhelpful> i'll regret it if i say "yes", won't i?
05.55.42 #       <JdGordon> probably not... tiny patch
05.56.14 #       <Unhelpful> just so it doesn't have any rename-and-then-edit :/
05.56.24 #       <JdGordon> http://pastebin.com/m173db56e
05.56.28 #       <JdGordon> no, its very clean
05.56.48 #       <JdGordon> it replaces the tokens staticly sized array with one that bassically grows as needed
05.58.06 #       <Unhelpful> s/bare in mind/bear in mind/ ;)
05.58.29 #       <JdGordon> have a bear in mind?
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05.58.34 #       <Unhelpful> also begining->beginning :)
05.58.35 #       <JdGordon> beer :)
05.58.43 #       <JdGordon> code comments... not typos :)
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05.59.55 #       <Unhelpful> now, you load all of the tokens first, and then all of the images?
06.00.08 #       <JdGordon> yes
06.00.33 #       <JdGordon> as long as that doesnt change (and it shouldnt) that end is safe
06.01.07 #       <Unhelpful> and you should then be able to allocate images up, starting from right after the tokens... allocate-down tricks are best avoided *if* you can. :)
06.01.09 #       <JdGordon> I tihnk the danger is having the buffer_back grow and overlap buffer_start+"the data which hasnt been technically allocated yet"
06.01.21 #       <JdGordon> yes images go up
06.01.34 #       <JdGordon> onyl stuff which we know the size of can be on the end growing backwards
06.01.53 #       <Unhelpful> and really it's better if you don't do that at all :)
06.02.42 #       <JdGordon> yeah, but we cant
06.02.49 #       <JdGordon> without wasting ram
06.02.55 #       <Unhelpful> printf?
06.02.59 #       <JdGordon> or moving ram around which isnt going to happen
06.03.03 #       <JdGordon> debug.. its gone now
06.03.52 #       <Unhelpful> what exactly do we need grow-down for?
06.04.15 #       <JdGordon> tokens that need data, the viewports, progressbars, even image structs
06.05.21 #       <Unhelpful> for image structs, can't you grow those up as you load the images? allocate sizeof(struct bitmap) then make the bitmap data follow immediately?
06.06.03 #       <Unhelpful> actually, you could probably do that for all of them... load tokens in one pass, then allocate other data they need in a second pass?
06.06.33 #       <Unhelpful> what's this? static unsigned char buffer[SKIN_BUFFER_SIZE];
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06.07.27 #       <JdGordon> no, the stuff which is allocated at the back end is data which tokens point to, its all statically sized so I dont think its bad growing backwards
06.07.48 #       <JdGordon> the image bm.data is set to the front to grow "up" when the bmp is loaded
06.08.01 #       <JdGordon> that is the actual RAM allocated for the skins
06.08.26 #       <Unhelpful> and i assume there are no gaps left, in the end, between the grow-up and grow-down parts of the buffer?
06.08.50 #       <Unhelpful> the bits that i understand right now seem sane... mind you, that's mostly the comments. :)
06.08.53 #       <JdGordon> there will be untill it fills up
06.09.11 #       <JdGordon> and we all know that comments always line up with the code... so all is good :)
06.12.18 #       * JdGordon needs to work on the wps debug info
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06.13.58 #       * JdGordon really loves it when stuff works first go!
06.16.06 #       * JdGordon goes for it
06.19.11 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03jdgordon (r22418): move the statically allocated tokens array into the skin buffer. this is done with a little bit of magic with the buffer... explanation in the ...
06.19.26 #       * JdGordon expects a fairly impressive delta on that one :)
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06.41.35 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03jdgordon (r22419): show the skin buffer size as well as the used amount in the rockbox info screen
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07.07.16 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03jdgordon (r22420): get the skin debug output working again, add a line to say how much of the buffer is being used to aid themers... let me know if this gets close to ...
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07.09.52 #       <webguest49> COWON D2 - hi guys, do yo think Rockbox would be fully functional on Cowon D2 by 2010?
07.11.38 #       <JdGordon> we are presently look at a spring 2013 release date, we wont bow to marketing pressure
07.13.37 #       <martian67> JdGordon, might get pushed back to 1015
07.13.40 #       <martian67> JdGordon, might get pushed back to 2015
07.13.44 #       <martian67> funding delays :/
07.13.50 #       <pixelma> webguest49: no-one can predict that. Rockbox is a volunteer effort and you can't make people work on something, so can't and won't give time estimates. The D2 port is more or less a one person project so even harder to predict... it would help if you find interested coders with some skills
07.13.51 #       <martian67> you know how head office is
07.15.01 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03jdgordon (r22421): hopefully fix the yellow
07.17.07 #       <webguest49> What is the best way to fund Rockbox transfer on D2?
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07.19.11 #       <pixelma> there is no funding for specific ports -as I said your best bet would be to gather interest and find other coders that are really able to help
07.20.16 #       <pixelma> in case you find an interested one and he doesn't have a D2 yet, you could fund him by giving him a D2
07.20.20 #       <webguest49> Thanks
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07.30.43 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03gevaerts (r22422): Add const to usb_serial_send() buffer. ...
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07.38.51 #       <pixelma> JdGordon: can't find something obvious at a first glance with my c200 WPS, Skin RAM usage is 5.35kB/23.2kB if you are curious (not many images, the few it has are monochrome, but some 20 viewports)
07.39.17 #       <JdGordon> great
07.40.04 #       <JdGordon> I think we can make a case for shrinking the buffer down a bit, but I dunno if its worth it or not
07.40.49 #       <JdGordon> 20kb isnt exactly a huge amount of compressed audio...
07.40.56 #       * Unhelpful thought the point was to make the buffer dynamic...
07.41.20 #       <JdGordon> yes and no
07.41.30 #       <JdGordon> the main point was to use the ram better
07.42.33 #       <JdGordon> I am thinking about adding a user setting for how much to waste, but probaly will get rejected.. "as small as possible" "tiny", "small", "medium", "huge" etc...
07.43.29 #       * Unhelpful thinks that if dynamic can be done without onerous requirements, that's the best use ;)
07.44.04 #       <JdGordon> we can only go smaller between reboots, so some argue there is no point making it user choosable
07.44.42 #       <Unhelpful> buffer_alloc space can't be returned without reboot?
07.44.57 #       <JdGordon> it will get very interesting when the statusbar and fm are skinned though
07.45.10 #       <JdGordon> no
07.45.49 #       <JdGordon> well, in theory the last one alloced could be shrunk. but no way will we do that
07.51.43 #       <Unhelpful> because it could just end up being broken when something else comes along to use buffer_alloc after it?
07.51.55 #       <JdGordon> yeah
07.53.11 #       * Unhelpful will have to think about incorporating resize of buffer_alloc'd buffers into his Grand Not-A-Malloc Buffer Scheme ;)
07.53.41 #       <Unhelpful> removing the reboot requirement for settings that change buffer_alloc use would be a nice-to-have, also. :)
07.54.20 #       <JdGordon> yeah, I doubt it will ever happen though... there is just too much that uses it
07.54.54 #       <JdGordon> I thought about using an event which would get everything to realloc what it needs, but thats not safe
07.54.59 #       <JdGordon> or good
08.01.13 #       <Unhelpful> so... i've used 1.3KB of... 168KB total?
08.01.53 #       <JdGordon> text only wps?
08.03.50 #       <Unhelpful> i believe i've a bitmap progressbar... but it's only 2px high or so, and mono as well.
08.05.10 #       <JdGordon> so 1.3K is expected
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08.05.47 #       <JdGordon> hmm... is it a .bmp progressbar? or the inbuilt one?
08.05.53 #       <pixelma> Unhelpful: don't you have big album art? Is that counted somewhere
08.06.04 #       <JdGordon> thats not part of the skin count
08.06.23 #       <Unhelpful> AA bmps are stored as buffer objects :)
08.06.50 #       <pixelma> you couldn't see progress on a 2px high inbuilt progressbar as that could only display its frame
08.07.18 #       * Unhelpful points up re: UnheplfulAA's progressbar
08.08.09 #       <JdGordon> oh right
08.08.15 #       <JdGordon> yeah 1.3K sounds correct
08.08.19 #       * pixelma thinks it would be nice if "make reconf" could deal with advanced build options (better)
08.09.10 #       <Unhelpful> and the 168K comes from where?
08.11.01 #       <JdGordon> enough to store 1 full screen 24bit image, and 1 half screen mono i tinhk
08.11.27 #       <JdGordon> no, 1 24bit and 2 mono images
08.11.50 #       <JdGordon> skin_buffer.c if you want to manually change that
08.11.52 #       <Unhelpful> heheheh.... pb.bmp is the only theme bitmap, and it's a whopping 186B
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08.39.02 #       <JucaBlues> what are the tech requirements for running rockbox?
08.39.41 #       <GodEater> JucaBlues: what do you mean ?
08.40.06 #       <GodEater> you need a supported player, and you need a PC that is running Windows / OSX or some flavour of linux to do the install
08.40.07 #       <JucaBlues> I mean... if I have a portable music player that is not officially supported yet, how should I proceed in order to figure out if it is even possible to port RB ?
08.40.09 #       <GodEater> that's about it
08.40.16 #       <GodEater> ah I see
08.40.29 #       <JucaBlues> what are the common code injection procedures?
08.40.34 #       <JucaBlues> used to install RB
08.40.40 #       <GodEater> that varies entirely from player to player
08.40.43 #       <GodEater> http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
08.40.47 #       <GodEater> have a read of that
08.40.53 #       <JucaBlues> thanks
08.42.17 #       <GodEater> which player are you looking at out of interest ?
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11.54.01 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22423): More comments in the settings macros
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13.07.47 #       <pyro_maniac> i was trying to compile sansapatcher with this result: make: *** No rule to make target `firmware.mi4', needed by `bootimg_c200.c'.
13.08.41 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22424): Fix typo in the comment
13.11.55 #       <kugel> pyro_maniac: you need the c200 bootloader image
13.12.23 #       <pyro_maniac> kugel: but i want to compile it for a e200
13.12.38 #       <kugel> sansapatcher needs both
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13.14.20 #       <fml> Is it possible to switch the scroll bar on/off on non bitmap LCDs?
13.16.59 #       <pamaury> hello, I have a new question about storage: does rockbox support multiple partition per drive ?
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13.23.24 #       <n1s> pamaury: you might need to enable it witha a define
13.24.06 #       <Grahack> Hi, some of my playlists have a file name beginning with an underscore and used to be sorted at the end of the catalog. Is it me or this behaviour changed recently (say within a month) ? Is there a mean to sort them at the end back ?
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13.27.34 #       <pamaury> n1s: so it supports it ? I mean, for example, if on disk has two partitions, is it possible to access the two filesystems with rockbox ?
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13.30.17 #       <Grahack> from http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NoDo You can partition your player fine, just make sure the first one is FAT32 and then make the other ones whatever file system you want. Just don't expect Rockbox to understand them. 
13.31.19 #       <pamaury> Yes but if other partitions are FAT32 ?
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13.32.53 #       <Grahack> Good question, I was just realizing that your question may be about FAT32 only. I have no answer, but nls talked about a define...
13.33.33 #       <kugel> pamaury: rockbox should support that
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13.35.12 #       <pamaury> kugel: And how exactly it works ? I saw that there is the "storage" api in RB but I belive a storage=disk, no ? So how can you get the number of partitions per drive and how do you access them ?
13.39.09 #       <pamaury> Looking at the code, I begin to understand (I hope !): there are volume which are logical drives and contains filesystem and each drive can coutains several volumes, am I correct ? Them is there a way to know which volume belong to which drive and conversely ?
13.41.34 #       <kugel> pamaury: ask gevaerts about the specifics, but i had this commit in my mind: r21933:
13.41.48 #       <kugel> there are volumes and drives, yes
13.48.55 #       <pamaury> ok ,thanks. I'll ask gevaerts later
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14.10.54 #       <l403> looking at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MrSomeonesTodoList I see the settings_list task has been already done so another task can be added for someone to mark it as done
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14.36.43 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22425): Combine the settings for scrollbar on/off and its position into one with three possible values
14.38.30 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03alle (r22426): Delete the trivial comment
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14.44.48 #       <langzeitstudent_> Hmm my player (cowon D2) does not have a "play" key. Now I can not say "yes" to any question (e.g. "erease dynamic playlist")... is there any way to get around this without messing with the source code...? :/
14.46.55 #       <bertrik> IIRC, some targets use a PLAY button to confirm, others use SELECT
14.47.27 #       <bertrik> SELECT being the middle button in some kind of up/down/left/right button layout
14.48.16 #       <bertrik> changing between the play button and the select button for confirmation actions can be done quite easily in the language definition files
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14.49.14 #       <langzeitstudent_> ah, thought it'd be like the stuff mentioned in the UI simulator button stuff (http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/uisimulator/sdl/button.c?&view=markup)
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14.52.10 #       <bertrik> yeah, it's not just the language file
14.52.18 #       <langzeitstudent_> Hrm.. the d2 is not mentioned in the list.
14.53.02 #       <langzeitstudent_> which means "*: "PLAY = Yes"" is used :/
14.53.16 #       <langzeitstudent_> or is that just the text to display? :P
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14.57.22 #       <langzeitstudent_> ah found it, i guess. but that means i really do have to get my crossdev toolchain working.. bah
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15.02.19 #       <teru> the button to say yes seems to be TOPRIGHT for touchscreen targets.
15.04.29 #       <langzeitstudent_> the current array for "static const struct button_mapping button_context_yesno[]" is empty (at least in my "trunk" checkout); i just added "{ ACTION_YESNO_ACCEPT,          BUTTON_MENU,              BUTTON_NONE }" to the list. i wonder if I can check it with the ui simulator?
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15.08.58 #       <kugel> teru: hi
15.09.21 #       <kugel> thanks for the fixup of the anti-aliased fonts patch. it seems a lot slower than previous versions though
15.10.14 #       <ZincAlloy> kugel: did you use a smaller font for the new version of "Slick" on purpose?
15.10.42 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: yea, I noticed the wps has info that isn't shown with the bigger font
15.11.30 #       <ZincAlloy> :D I left that in because it kinda worked with a smaller font
15.12.39 #       <ZincAlloy> but most of the information will need some nudging..
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15.13.12 #       <kugel> my wps screenshot is a bit messed up :(
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15.14.33 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: have you seen my screenshot with the custom statusbar at http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=22495.0 ?
15.14.49 #       <ZincAlloy> yes, very nice
15.15.47 #       <kugel> cabbie isn't so well prepared for that sort of stuff :/
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15.16.00 #       <ZincAlloy> it doesn't need that sort of stuff
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15.16.24 #       <GodEater> cabbiev2 you mean :)
15.16.30 #       <ZincAlloy> right :)
15.16.46 #       <ZincAlloy> but the placement of viewports leaves a lot to be desired on many targets
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15.17.23 #       <kugel> sure it needs that, every theme does :)
15.18.09 #       <ZincAlloy> I guess this new feature will be overused in no time :)
15.18.22 #       <langzeitstudent_> bertrik, it works now, at least in the ui simulator. is that enough to create a bug & append patch?
15.18.57 #       <kugel> the fine thing is, you can use every wps tag, so you can make it exxagerated or minimal :p
15.19.19 #       <kugel> exaggerated*
15.20.18 #       <ZincAlloy> btw, I believe there's some themes with licensing issues on the theme site
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15.20.52 #       <kugel> IMO, the default theme should make use of that
15.20.53 #       <ZincAlloy> that series of win xp/media player themes for nano...
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15.28.23 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03blue_dude (r22427): Resort, upnumber plugin API
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15.30.36 #       <teru> kugel: hmm. I use anti-aliased font with gigabeat x and I don't feel it's slow... so i don't feel like to try to speed up.
15.33.05 #       <kugel> it's slower than the versions before on my fuze & e200
15.33.18 #       <kugel> so I suspect your changes
15.33.41 #       <linuxstb> teru: The gigabeat X is one of the fastest devices...
15.33.54 #       <teru> there seems to be some strange changes in my patch compared to original patch. reverting them to original might help?
15.34.37 #       <kugel> I will try, what exactly is unsupported in the versions before? I've never noticed something that the AAF cant do
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15.41.21 #       <ZincAlloy> kugel: here's an improved version of the slick wps: http://pastie.org/588468  changes are subtle, but it looks much better now
15.44.08 #       <teru> the only reason i tried to support all drawmode is text in lrcplayer, plugin I wrote, wasn't shown as I expected. i don't remember reason of other changes.
15.47.04 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03teru (r22428): shortcuts_view: fix displaying last path segments so that plugin exactly shows what is said in the manual. ...
15.49.36 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: your theme, I won't argue :) but maybe base it on my version (so that the version number increases properly) I haven't made any changes to the wps
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15.51.47 #       <ZincAlloy> I did, I only tweaked the placement of viewports in the wps a bit and updated the version number :)
15.52.20 #       <ZincAlloy> I kinda like the smaller font ;)
15.52.37 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: oh, I uploaded the wrong .wps
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15.53.49 #       <ZincAlloy> I see :)
15.55.09 #       <bertrik> langzeitstudent_, I'm not _really_ a button expert, but a flyspray patch sounds like a good idea
15.55.18 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: do you want to reupload?
15.55.37 #       <ZincAlloy> right, I'll do it..
15.57.47 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03teru (r22429): brickmania: fix position of score in function brickmania_sleep.
15.59.47 #       <langzeitstudent_> bertrik, well its up: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10548
16.00.45 #       <kugel> Why top right?
16.01.01 #       <langzeitstudent_> first time i ever created a patch, hope it works xD
16.01.29 #       <langzeitstudent_> kugel, dunno. the keymap-touchscreen uses it
16.01.44 #       <kugel> isn't center basically select?
16.03.05 #       <kugel> langzeitstudent_: the keymap-cowond2.c isn't meant for BUTTON_TOPRIGHT etc (i.e. the grid mode buttons)
16.04.15 #       <kugel> for the grid mode, we have keymap-touchscreen.c which already has yesno_accept (also top right).
16.04.33 #       <langzeitstudent_> ah. well the touchscreen keymap wasnt used, though. well i'll remove the topright thingy then
16.05.28 #       <kugel> are you sure? you need to turn the grid mode (in the settings) on for that
16.05.58 #       <langzeitstudent_> is there a way to replace attached files?
16.06.59 #       <kugel> no
16.07.10 #       <kugel> not for normal people at least :)
16.07.57 #       <ZincAlloy> kugel: ok, new version is up
16.08.49 #       <kugel> ZincAlloy: I can delete the other one, right?
16.09.25 #       <ZincAlloy> sure :)
16.10.21 #       <langzeitstudent_> kugel, 'kay i'll add another file then    ah, just checked again; the topright thingy works. i wonder why it didnt before, had the gridmode on.
16.11.23 #       <kugel> the yesno screen ought to be remade for touchscreen targets
16.11.31 #       <langzeitstudent_> "normal people" cant edit their reports either?
16.11.43 #       <kugel> that's correct
16.12.15 #       <kugel> with a nice big green button in the middle and red around, so that you touch the actual "I agree" button :>
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16.14.01 #       <ZincAlloy> thanks alot, kugel!
16.15.12 #       <kugel> you're welcome :)
16.16.17 #       <langzeitstudent_> alright.. 2nd version up then
16.17.08 #       <kugel> now both top right and menu work (in grid mode)?
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16.51.59 #       <pamaury> Is it normal that a recent commit broke the code ? (I get �LANG_SKIN_RAM_USAGE� undeclared)
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16.54.19 #       <JdGordon> pamaury: do make clean
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16.55.09 #       <pamaury> arf, ok I'll need a full build
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17.02.32 #       <kugel> hmm, statusbar is 1.4k binsize, 330bytes of that is fixing tokens to be id3==NULL safe
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17.07.24 #       <JdGordon> kugel: and thats somehow a problem?
17.07.40 #       <JdGordon> I just freed up 4K on just about all targets
17.07.47 #       <dberg918> just noticed that the "customlist" patch got committed, is there a wiki page somewhere with instructions for using it?
17.07.51 #       <kugel> no, I was just saying
17.08.01 #       <dberg918> I couldn't find anything
17.08.10 #       <kugel> there's another 1.8k that may be freed
17.08.18 #       <kugel> after that wps_data is rather tiny :)
17.09.30 #       <BBBradley> If anyone here plays with USB charging, I am trying to disable USB charging  on the Ipod Video.I want to plug my Ipod into another portable device and not use any power from it. So I am trying to figure out if I can control the suspend pin on the LTC4066 from a GPIO pin on the PP5021c
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17.11.18 #       <kugel> dberg918: see forums
17.11.40 #       <Torne> BBBradley: I doubt we know
17.12.56 #       <Torne> BBBradley: we know which GPIO is the 100/500mA selector. Maybe it's near that? :)
17.13.15 #       <dberg918> ah, thank you kugel
17.13.27 #       <BBBradley> which GPIO is that?
17.13.33 #       <Torne> see http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8802?getfile=18651
17.14.57 #       <BBBradley> I have been playing with this code and wondered if it could turn off USB Charging, so it just switches between 100/500 mA charging?
17.15.10 #       <Torne> What do you mean?
17.15.26 #       <Torne> The patch in FS#8802 only toggles HPWR on the LTC4066
17.15.51 #       <Torne> oh, wait, no it doesn't
17.16.23 #       <Torne> Actually I think it might already be doing hwat you want, or at least it might have been believed to
17.16.26 #       <Torne> have you tried it?
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17.17.59 #       <BBBradley> I cut the USB cable and inserted a current monitor and yes have tried the code but it has not dropped to zero.
17.18.30 #       <Torne> It's unlikely to drop to zero even if it's *not* charging..
17.18.41 #       <Torne> the USB PHY itself might draw a little anyway
17.18.42 #       <BBBradley> I see
17.18.44 #       <Torne> how much does it draw?
17.18.57 #       <BBBradley> about 31 mA
17.19.11 #       <Torne> what state was the battery in at the time?
17.19.14 #       <Torne> fully hcarged already/
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17.19.29 #       <BBBradley> The battery is fully charged
17.19.40 #       <Torne> Well, you can't test it like that ;)
17.19.52 #       <bertrik> 30 mA is about the normal idle current draw of many players
17.19.54 #       <Torne> once th ebattery is fully charged it will draw less *anyway*
17.20.02 #       <Torne> 30mA is indeed about right for idle draw for the ipodvideo
17.20.08 #       <Torne> which suggests it is still powering itself off the usb port
17.20.38 #       <BBBradley> well is there a way to not draw any from the USB port? Is the SUSP controllable on the 4066?
17.21.07 #       <Torne> We have no idea
17.21.22 #       <Torne> Well, I have no idea and I can't find anything on the wiki that indicates anyone else does
17.21.25 #       <BBBradley> So if I figure out do you want to know?
17.21.28 #       <Torne> dreamlayers might, potentially
17.21.39 #       <BBBradley> I think we have to cut one apart to find out.
17.21.59 #       <Torne> If you can find definitive answers for which GPIOs are connected where for anything w edon't already know we'd like to know :)
17.22.14 #       <BBBradley> ok
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17.23.50 #       <BBBradley> Torne: is there a document of the known GPIO from the portal player?
17.29.46 #       <Torne> BBBradley: not sure i'm afraid.
17.33.02 #       <linuxstb> BBBradley: I think there was a list maintained on the ipodlinux wiki, but that site is down...
17.36.23 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: You freed ram though, which is good, but binsize increased
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17.41.46 #       <BBBradley> Torne: I am checking to see if the LTC4066 SUSP is connected to the PP5021c, from the 4066fc.pdf document it shows that it is asserted high and has an internal pull down. So this means it would not need to be connected to anything to use the chip, that power flows by default.
17.42.29 #       <Torne> yes. this is not surprising :)
17.42.41 #       <Torne> it is quite possible that it isn't connected, therefore.
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17.43.50 #       <Torne> are you really in a position where it's going to hurt that much to have <=100mA being drawn? :)
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17.52.40 #       <BBBradley> Torne: I suspect yes. I don't want to use any of the battery power in the device I'm plugging into. 
17.53.58 #       <Torne> yes. but what i'm saying is it's probably tough, and even if not then it will likely be very difficult to discover how to stop, so maybe you should reexamine how much you care about the <=100mA in the light of that
17.54.43 #       <Torne> :)
17.55.43 #       <BBBradley> I might have to go with a bigger battery then.
18.07.26 #       <BBBradley> Torne: why is the ipodlinux wiki down? will it be up again ever?
18.08.18 #       <Torne> No idea, and probably not
18.08.25 #       <Torne> http://web.archive.org/web/20080205093958/http://ipodlinux.org/
18.09.10 #       <BBBradley> How old is Rockbox and are the people who started it still working on it?
18.11.31 #       <Torne> ~8 years, and i think so
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18.22.18 #       <linuxstb> BBBradley: I believe it was hacked, so they turned the server off and they haven't got round to restoring it yet.
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18.25.31 #       <white_magic> hi
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18.37.36 #       <white_magic> does Rockbox support xvid or divx?
18.39.37 #       <BBBradley> linuxstb thanks
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18.42.32 #       <kkurbjun> white_magic: not currently
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18.47.05 #       <white_magic> ahh
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18.48.13 #       <white_magic> can you guys recommend a particular player to use with rockbox? i only care about price and battery lifetime
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18.50.29 #       <moos> white_magic: depending on what's you are searching for. Here is an usufull link: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide
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18.54.43 #       <Mags81> yo fellas, any updates on rockbox development for Sansa Fuze v2 devices?
19.00.01 #       <saratoga> check the wiki
19.00.09 #       <saratoga> but probably no unless you haven't looked in ages
19.00.59 #       <white_magic> thanks, moos
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19.15.05 #       <white_magic> for the battery lifetime specs in the Buyer's Guide, is it for audio or video?
19.15.19 #       <JdGordon|> aidio
19.15.23 #       <JdGordon|> audio even
19.18.06 #       <white_magic> i see :(
19.19.42 #       <JdGordon|> if you want video you're a bit lost..
19.19.51 #       <JdGordon|> unless you enjoy converting to mpeg2
19.25.28 #       <bertrik> getting the meizu m6 display to work looks doable so far
19.27.06 #       <JdGordon|> arg, this "nothing to resume" splash on startup is really bloody annoying :p
19.34.30 #       <ej0rge> JdGordon|: that's why i use "previous screen" instead of "resume playback" 
19.34.44 #       <JdGordon|> smarty pants :)
19.35.08 #       * JdGordon| forgot about that option
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19.53.35 #       <bertrik> wow, the meizu m6 can do quite advanced stuff in the lcd controller already with back and foreground buffers, OSD and alpha blending
19.56.36 #       <JdGordon|> you found a datasheet?
19.58.10 #       <bertrik> the meizu m6 uses the lcd controller inside the s5l8700 and we have a datasheet of that
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19.59.15 #       <JdGordon|> ah cool :)
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20.05.51 #       <bertrik> the built-in lcd controller is a dma bus master, so lcd updates will probably be very fast (as fast as a memcpy)
20.08.09 #       <amiconn> The problem with special lcd controller features is that they aren't portable
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20.10.24 #       <amiconn> So they could only be used on certain targets, and that means either restricting usage to plugins which would run on those targets only, or even worse, introducing lots of ifdefs in the core
20.10.40 #       <bertrik> yeah, the lcd controller frame buffer is already in system memory IIUC, so we'll both a "rockbox frame buffer" and the lcd controller framebuffer in memory
20.11.07 #       <amiconn> I'm not referring to special ways to speed up updating, but things like hardware transparency, multiple buffers etc
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20.11.40 #       <JdGordon|> wouldnt it make sense to use those extra buffers instead of RAM anyway? even if there is a few extra #ifdefs?
20.11.47 #       <JdGordon|> and the mr500 can do OSD also iirc
20.12.21 #       <amiconn> Probably the earliest example was the old 'oscillograph' plugin. Originally written for the archos bitmap lcd, it used a special hardware scrolling feature, making it unportable to the irivers (which were newly added back then)
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20.13.14 #       <amiconn> Instead of working around, 'oscillograph' was later replaced by the more flexible 'oscilloscope' which uses framebuffer based scrolling, and hence can work on all bitmap targets
20.13.49 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03mcuelenaere (r22430): Dutch translation: be consistent w.r.t. scrollbar
20.17.16 #       <mcuelenaere> JdGordon|: yes, the DM320 has some 2D acceleration features and the hardware has its framebuffer in main RAM; so there are 2 framebuffers (I remember mapping the lcd_framebuffer[][] as the hardware framebuffer on the ZVM, but that gave the effect like if you would do lcd_update() after every lcd_* operation)
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20.22.25 #       <n1s> amiconn: that's true for any special hardware features and of course the advantage of using the feature should be weighted against the code clutter imo
20.22.39 #       <amiconn> sure
20.23.24 #       <amiconn> If an lcd controller would e.g. offer a yuv overlay, it should of course be used for lcd_blit_yuv
20.24.02 #       <amiconn> This wouldn't require any ifdefing, and the advantage of using it would be quite high
20.24.55 #       <n1s> yeah, do yo know what kind of magic the beast' lcd controller could do, i think i remember something about colorspace conversion
20.24.59 #       <JdGordon|> but wouldnt the ifdef for these features be really low down?
20.25.36 #       <saratoga> IIRC it can do colorspace conversion and hardware resizing
20.26.23 #       <n1s> MrSomeone should look into using that :)
20.27.55 #       <saratoga> first he should get teh S to be a supported target
20.28.27 #       <saratoga> do we have a TODO list for the S somewhere?  I've forgotten where we stand on it
20.29.24 #       * Torne writes himself a note to remind him to actually reverse more of the S bootrom
20.30.02 #       <saratoga> Torne:  were you working on reflashing the S bootrom?
20.30.34 #       <Torne> i'm working on grokking what it does, for several reasons. reflashing could be one, but the more immediate two were "why do later firmware versions not seem to work with a single boot bootloader" and "why doe sit reformat sometimes"
20.30.55 #       <amiconn> JdGordon: That very much depends on what kind of feature it is. The mentioned hardware scrolling (or hardware rotation rather) wasn't transparent at all, because it needed a special function in the lcd driver setting the amount of rotation
20.31.40 #       <amiconn> The plugin (oscillograph) had to call this, and then take it into account when placing other elements (i.e text) as well 
20.32.09 #       <amiconn> It also had to reset it on exit, otherwise the whole ui would stay rotated until shutdown
20.35.03 #       <saratoga> Torne:  is reflashing it feasible?  is there a way to recover from a bad flash (JTAG?)
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20.48.44 #       <n1s> saratoga: i don't know what is needed either but i'm guessing installing from windows is pretty involved still?
20.48.44 #       <amiconn> Torne: Extended question: why does it reformat on some units if it detects a broken firmware, but not on others?
20.49.24 #       <amiconn> Mine complained about a broken firmware once so that I had to restore it, but my data partition was kept intact
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20.53.08 #       <kkurbjun> the MR500 already takes advantage of hardware transparencies and YUV frame buffers.  It uses them in the mpeg player to zoom the yuv frame buffer and uses the RGB overlay to show the video progress
20.53.25 #       <kkurbjun> (and other bits of status)
20.54.43 #       <kkurbjun> there is also DMA setup to make lcd updates extremely fast, but unfortunately it can't rotate while updating
20.55.00 #       <kkurbjun> so that would force it to 480x640 when the natural player orientation is 640x480
20.55.20 #       <kkurbjun> I get over 150fps when running at 480x640, and around 20 fps at 640x480 :-D
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20.59.09 #       <amiconn> Would it be deisrable to use a transposed framebuffer on the mr500 then?
20.59.43 #       <amiconn> It would mean updates will be >150fps, but native bitmap drawing would be slower (no more simple memcpy()ing)
21.00.21 #       <kkurbjun> wouldn't that require changes to the way that all of the lcd routines work?
21.00.57 #       <amiconn> Mono bitmaps (i.e. text) need special handling anyway. It would also mean to introduce an new framebuffer-level driver, something like lcd-16bit-t.c
21.01.07 #       <JdGordon|> 480x640 is portaight yeah?
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21.01.24 #       <linuxstb> n1s: I _think_ beastpatcher.exe makes installation from windows OK now.  I did write a to-do for the Beast a long time ago, probably on the GigabeatSPort page
21.01.32 #       <amiconn> Hmm, in fact native bitmaps could stay fast as well - they would be in a different native format as well in this case
21.01.58 #       <kkurbjun> oh, true, and I guess loading images would jsut require the transpose at load time
21.02.12 #       <amiconn> yes
21.02.25 #       <kkurbjun> JdGordon, yes, it is portrait mode
21.02.26 #       <amiconn> Image loading needs to process things anyway
21.02.47 #       <kkurbjun> what about a plugin like stars?
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21.02.54 #       <amiconn> What about it?
21.03.07 #       <linuxstb> n1s: It seems that getting beastpatccher to run on OS X is troublesome, but I don't think anyone would say that alone should delay "supported" status.
21.03.11 #       <kkurbjun> does it draw direct to the framebuffer?
21.03.15 #       <JdGordon|> kkurbjun: ok, seems a bit funny that its set up with fast updates in portait when the OF is landscape :)
21.03.36 #       <n1s> linuxstb: i agree with that
21.03.48 #       <amiconn> kkurbjun: stars? Why should it draw directly?
21.04.00 #       <kkurbjun> well, I don't know if the OF ever took advantage of the dma hardware that way - I havn't committed it to svn yet since it still needs to be cleaned up some
21.04.28 #       <amiconn> There are a few plugins drawing directly - they would need a new #ifdef LCD_PIXELFORMAT == ... section
21.05.18 #       <amiconn> The question is whether the gain is worh the hassle
21.05.24 #       <kkurbjun> yeah, doom and rockboy draw direct.. I was thinking of starfield -- I assumed that it was drawing direct, but I might be mistaken
21.05.26 #       <amiconn> It's certainly all doable
21.05.49 #       <amiconn> Maybe also plasma, fire and similar
21.06.10 #       <amiconn> The xlcd pluginlib would also need to be extended
21.06.12 #       <linuxstb> Pacbox also draws directly, and I would imagine zxbox as well.  i.e. all the emulators
21.06.25 #       <kkurbjun> I think it would be nice for basic browsing -- right now even scrolling in lists with a rotated screen is choppy.. I think that the rotation code could be better written to make that better though
21.06.56 #       <saratoga> so the remaining issue figuring out why non-dual boot installs sometimes get corrupted?
21.07.59 #       <kkurbjun> right now it's not optimized at all...
21.08.34 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: I think the main issue is simply doing binary releases of beastpatcher and the bootloader, and making sure the install procedure is correctly documented in the manual.
21.09.21 #       <saratoga> whats needed to build beastpatcher for windows?
21.09.46 #       <linuxstb> Some MS compiler I think.
21.10.14 #       <saratoga> i have an unmodded S here, i can try it if someone builds the compiler
21.10.18 #       <saratoga> or if i find a VS machine somewhere
21.10.24 #       <n1s> finally getting the beast supported would be great :)
21.10.47 #       <saratoga> yeah might encourage someone to pick up work on it again
21.10.52 #       <saratoga> its a great piece of hardware
21.11.11 #       * linuxstb looks around for Swedes to move the pp-bootloaders...
21.11.31 #       <saratoga> i asked last night and the issue was figuring otu what rbutil needs each one to be called
21.12.16 #       <linuxstb> Surely they simply just need to be named the same as the current versions?
21.12.29 #       <amiconn> kkurbjun: There's certainly some optimisation potential...
21.12.48 #       <linuxstb> That's how all previous versions have been released - the existing files moved into an "old" directory, and the new versions replace them.
21.13.36 #       <amiconn> It's currently copying in 16 bit amounts in a way that probably causes frequent cache misses
21.14.18 #       <amiconn> kkurbjun: How fast are portrait mode updates but without dma?
21.15.47 #       <kkurbjun> yeah, that's what I was thinking, if I had it doing a large read with multiple registers it would probably speed it up quite a bit- the hardware supports bursting at least on the DMA side in chunks of 32 bytes - I don't know if the cache does a burst but it may.. I'm not sure offhand, let me do a test.
21.16.03 #       <saratoga> what about the YH-XXX tagets
21.16.10 #       <saratoga> i think we have everything ready for them now?
21.16.18 #       <amiconn> You could do 32 bit or even 64 bit reads and writes, with the right register shuffling magic
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21.17.47 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: I've no idea about that.  Does the latest rbutil release support them?
21.18.27 #       <saratoga> it does with added INI
21.18.33 #       <saratoga> otherwise you have to recompile from SVN IIRC
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21.19.15 #       <saratoga> http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/rbutil/rbutilqt/rbutil.ini?r1=22230;r2=22231;pathrev=22231
21.19.17 #       <linuxstb> saratoga: (reading the logs from 2 days ago), Zagor asked for someone to produce a zip with them in the right locations?
21.19.30 #       <saratoga> for other PP not YH right?
21.19.48 #       <bluebrother> saratoga: I can provide you windows binaries of beastpatcher.
21.19.52 #       <linuxstb> The problem with that is that it will overwrite the existing files, which it would be nice to backup.
21.20.10 #       <linuxstb> s/backup/move to archive directories/
21.20.18 #       <saratoga> bluebrother:  give me one and I'll try to test it tonight or tomorrow
21.20.36 #       <saratoga> do we have binaries released for the YH bootloaders?
21.20.44 #       <saratoga> i guess we could do it the same time as the other PP bootloaders
21.21.38 #       <bluebrother> saratoga: I _think_ that's the latest from svn: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/beastpatcher.zip
21.21.51 #       <saratoga> thanks I'll try it when i get a chance
21.22.30 #       <kkurbjun> amiconn: hmm, it's still only 58 fps with the lcd_copy_buffer_rect function
21.22.33 #       <linuxstb> I can't see any existing YH bootloaders on the download server.
21.22.37 #       <bluebrother> unfortunately it doesn't have support for dual-boot patching. But AFAICS I need to figure some license stuff before I can integrate that.
21.22.43 #       <kkurbjun> for a fullscreen update
21.22.50 #       <kkurbjun> but it's much better than 20
21.22.54 #       <kkurbjun> :D
21.23.19 #       <amiconn> yup
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21.23.31 #       <bluebrother> saratoga: YH support was added to rbutil, but no bootloaders have been released yet. Thus it's noted as "preliminary" on the wiki page :)
21.23.57 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: What license stuff?   If you're talking about mknkboot, I wrote that, so am happy to relicense for beastpatcher.  It's pretty trivial anyway.
21.23.58 #       <amiconn> So the question is, are (guesstimated) 40..50fps good enough for landscape, or do we need that transposed pixel format?
21.26.46 #       <saratoga> well lets release a bootloader along with the other PP ones
21.28.24 #       <kkurbjun> amiconn: it is much smoother even without dma - lists are noticeably faster and games like bubbles are pretty playable. I think if it could be boosted to around 40/50fps rotated it would be smooth enough that it's not noticeably slow- right now it looks choppy when rotated
21.28.42 #       <bluebrother> linuxstb: yes, mknkboot would be needed to be BSD too. OTOH I was wondering if going BSD for beastpatcher was needed at all.
21.28.49 #       <ej0rge> saratoga: the beast bootloader also lacks hold switch detection, iirc 
21.29.26 #       <amiconn> The beast bootloader does hold switch detection, and it's annoying
21.29.42 #       <ej0rge> it does? mine doesn't. Do i need to update it? 
21.30.10 #       <amiconn> If you accidentally power on with the hold switch enabled (i.e. connecting the charger or usb) it boots into the OF, and then you need access to a battery switch tool to get back into rockbox...
21.30.18 #       <ej0rge> all the beasts I've rockboxed boot right up with the hold switch enabled 
21.30.32 #       <amiconn> You install single boot?
21.30.47 #       <ej0rge> single boot, yes, on the ones that are v1.1 OF 
21.30.49 #       <amiconn> Then of course you won't see it boot into the OF
21.31.03 #       <ej0rge> I did one on v1.2 OF but i sold it. 
21.31.18 #       <amiconn> The hold switch doesn't prevent booting, but it selects between rockbox and OF
21.31.31 #       <ej0rge> *nod* 
21.31.42 #       <ej0rge> I suppose someone might want the OF for wmp9 videos or usbotg 
21.31.57 #       <amiconn> Imo that's a rather bad way to do this selection, but it's done this way on several other targets too
21.32.24 #       <ej0rge> I agree. better to use some button if at all possible, and have it shut down if booted with the hold switch enabled 
21.32.27 #       <amiconn> The hold switch should prevent booting, and the selection should be done using button presses during boot
21.32.41 #       <ej0rge> especially as the beast starts to boot immediately on first press of 'power'
21.33.01 #       <ej0rge> not like some targets that require you to hold down the button for a bit 
21.33.54 #       <amiconn> On some (most?) targets this "hold down for a bit" requirement is implemented in software
21.34.31 #       <ej0rge> That brings me to the only other bootloader question i know of - does anybody know the current state of the x5 bootloader with regard to the dual boot patch? 
21.34.34 #       <linuxstb> bluebrother: I thought that debate had already been had? (switching beastpatcher to.BSD)
21.35.08 #       <ej0rge> iirc there was some concern that the way the dual boot patch for the x5 bootloader works, it could be broken by a fw update from cowon. But that doesn't seem to be anywhere on the horizon anymore. 
21.35.58 #       <ej0rge> I get the impression that the patch was written for the v2 bootloader and is now very outdated. 
21.36.11 #       <bertrik> on a few targets I've seen, the software has to do something to "acknowledge" the power up in order to stay powered on without the powerup button pressed
21.36.31 #       <amiconn> Basically all...
21.37.29 #       <amiconn> It's just that on some target *rockbox* or its bootloader doesn't need to do that, in case it is handled by another loader before it
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21.51.52 #       <Unhelpful> remember, we have pluggable output for the image loaders... and the pictureflow plugin already uses a transposed output plugin, because it renders a column at a time, so it's faster if the cover images are laid out column-first
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21.53.54 #       <saratoga> was a procedure for tagging a bootloader as a release build ever determined?
21.54.28 #       <kkurbjun> hmm, last time I tested portrait DMA updates I thought I was getting 150fps - looks like it is around 190 fps in my latest test.
21.54.56 #       <kkurbjun> Unhelpful: that's interesting I didn't know that pictureflow did that
21.55.57 #       <Unhelpful> the renderer math is easier by columns... you multiply and divide to get the scaling factor for the column, and then the per-pixel math is only adds and shifts
21.57.28 #       <bluebrother> linuxstb: sorry, had a phone call. Yep, but I'm kinda wondering about the problem linking GPL software against MS libs.
21.57.48 #       <saratoga> if the libs come with the OS then its fine
21.57.58 #       <bluebrother> AFAIK qtscrob links against the same lib and is GPL.
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21.58.32 #       <bluebrother> well, the lib comes with WMP10. Not sure if that could be considered OS. Nevertheless, we can't distribute it anyway
21.58.33 #       <linuxstb> Isn't that lib part of Windows Media Player.  I wouldnt' call that part of "the OS".
21.59.34 #       <bluebrother> but even if that isn't an OS lib, is there a problem with the GPL linking against other libs? Did I miss something there?
22.00.20 #       <bluebrother> not that it matters much wrt beastpatcher anymore ...
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22.02.39 #       <saratoga> WMP is included with the OS and thus you can link against it, but obviously not distribute the DLL
22.04.11 #       <amiconn> WMP10 is not included with the OS, at least not all OS versions it runs on
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22.06.19 #       <saratoga> WMP10 can be included on any version of Windows install disk that it can run on (since it has slipstream support), if the OEM decides to include it doesn't matter, its still an OS library 
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22.07.29 #       <saratoga> more importantly, its a vender supplied driver for the OS, so you're within both the letter and spirit of the GPL here
22.07.49 #       <saratoga> the intention isn't to prevent people who closed source drivers from running GPLed software on their PCs
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22.20.30 #       <bertrik> does rockbox support a framebuffer pixel format where each pixels takes 32-bits as follows: 0x00RRGGBB ?
22.22.44 #       <bertrik> I guess I should check firmware/export/lcd.h
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22.27.21 #       <n1s> bertrik: i don't think it uses such a format on any target
22.27.37 #       <n1s> why not go 24bit though?
22.27.48 #       <bertrik> argh, I hope I'm mistaken then
22.28.01 #       <bertrik> n1s, because the LCD controller wants it like that
22.33.24 #       <n1s> hmm, it doesn't have a 16 bit mode?
22.33.30 #       <bertrik> this will complicate the Meizu M6 LCD driver quite a bit, the OF seems to use the 24-bit mode
22.33.37 #       <n1s> btw all our color targets are 16bit
22.33.53 #       <bertrik> the LCD controller does indeed support 16-bit mode, but that means I cannot just copy the OF settings then
22.33.58 #       <n1s> s/are/use/
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22.35.17 #       <Torne> saratoga: reflashing is feasible but i'm not clear if recovery is possible yet. quite prob ably not.
22.35.39 #       <Torne> amiconn: it formats just one partition if it can. it only reformats the whole disk if the MBR is damaged or both partitions have faults
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22.36.57 #       <Torne> amiconn: i've not yet found all the cases that cause a format, but I have documented some of them on the wiki: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSOriginalLoader
22.39.11 #       <Torne> saratoga: i've not looked at the actual board, so not sure about JTAG. There might be a viable sequence of oeprations for flashing which leaves it able to recover itself, though. It detects a number of flash errors quite early on and resorts to jumping to the recovery image to get a new firmware
22.42.41 #       <saratoga> Torne:  how much does the firmware actually do?  i know on the e200v1, the firmware actually handles so little that it was quite easy to remove it entirely (although some PP code still runs on the internal ROM)
22.44.59 Join    captainchris [0] (n=captainc@ANice-157-1-122-185.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22.45.02 #       <Torne> It does rather a lot
22.45.10 #       <Torne> it's the standard CE bootlaoder
22.45.15 #       <captainchris> hi everybody
22.45.22 #       <Torne> loads the CE kernel up in protected mode and all that jazz
22.45.29 #       <captainchris> i have a ipod nano 4th generation green 8g
22.45.43 #       <captainchris> and rockbox doesn't want to loadit 
22.46.19 #       <saratoga> rockbox doesn't run on your player
22.46.28 #       <saratoga> Torne:  does it do much we need though?
22.46.45 #       <Torne> It does SDRAM setup, iomux config, clock programming, etc
22.46.59 #       <saratoga> hmm and that may not be implemented in rockbox alraedy?
22.47.02 #       <Torne> which it would be easier if we didn't have to rip off
22.47.02 #       <Torne> ;0
22.47.12 #       <JdGordon|> captainchris: shock horror! probably because its not supposed to!
22.47.23 #       <Torne> saratoga: i doubt we re-init most of that stuff, no
22.47.51 #       <Torne> saratoga: we would probably want to jump in at the point the MMU is turned on
22.48.02 #       <Torne> get their code to copy us to ram and map us then run us :)
22.48.04 #       <captainchris> saratoga  i can't install it because rockbox say th eipod model it doesn't supported
22.48.25 #       <Torne> captainchris: that's beacuse that ipod model is not supported. it says that, no?
22.48.56 #       <captainchris> yes
22.48.59 #       <saratoga> "rockbox doesn't run on your player"
22.49.04 #       <Torne> so what are you asking?
22.49.20 #       <Unhelpful> there is a very clear list of supported players on the front page. :P
22.49.31 #       <captainchris> i'm under linux , and i can't put my music into
22.49.38 #       <saratoga> Torne:  ideally we'd setup the MMU too, having that code for ARMv6 would be nice
22.49.51 #       <Torne> saratoga: well, yah. I mean we *could* do it all
22.49.54 #       <saratoga> we'll likely see more of those devices in the future 
22.49.59 #       <Torne> saratoga: but we may have to cleanroom some of it
22.50.07 #       <Torne> saratoga: as not all the setup is going to be entirely obvious from the manual
22.50.10 #       <captainchris> under rythmnbox and amarock music appear and on my ipod she doesn't appear
22.50.22 #       <saratoga> this isn't an ipod support channel, go ask somewhere else
22.50.35 #       <Torne> saratoga: eg how to set up all the iomux crap for the particular bus arrangement
22.51.23 #       <Torne> saratoga: anyway i think it's dependant on there being a *vagely* safe way to do it :0
22.51.55 #       <Torne> saratoga: my priority is working out how to reliably be able to boot our loader off disk without it ever reformatting or requiring the dualboot loader that we can't make
22.52.07 #       <saratoga> yeah that makes sense
22.52.28 #       <saratoga> i thought we can make the dual bootloader now?
22.52.35 #       <Torne> Oh, i mean, we can
22.52.39 #       <Torne> but it requires that users do it
22.52.50 #       <Torne> whereas a single boot bootloader we can distribute as a binary
22.53.09 #       <Torne> s'perhaps preferable for people who don't care about booting the OF
22.55.34 #       <Unhelpful> s/make/distribute/ perhaps?
22.55.38 #       <Torne> Yah.
22.55.58 #       <Torne> It has to contain the OF bootloader, so installing without being copyright-violatey is slightly fiddly
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22.57.56 #       <Unhelpful> we could get around this if we patched the flash to test and decide what to boot, and it loaded rbboot.bin or such if told to boot rockbox...
22.58.21 #       <saratoga> Torne:  we require a patched OF for some targets already, so IMO thats not a serious limitation
22.59.00 #       <Unhelpful> and afaik there's no (reasonable) way to get at the flash, or to install that rbboot.bin, without having already overwritten the OF
23.00.58 #       <Torne> saratoga: Well it's not uup to me
23.01.03 #       <Torne> I'm basically reversing it *anyway*
23.01.10 #       <Torne> the dual boot hting was just something i was told ;)
23.01.23 #       <Torne> the original reason i started was to see if the reason it reformats sometimes is tbecause of TFAT
23.01.39 #       <Torne> because i inadvertantly gave godeater the impression that i might know about transactional filesystems ;)
23.02.20 #       * pixelma sees some weirdness when resuming playlists created with "insert shuffled" again :|
23.03.01 #       <saratoga> Unhelpful:  i wrote a tool a while ago that dumps the OF from the beast during installation
23.03.34 #       <MG_Man> ...Right well, sorry to interrupt, but I have a question that I think is too smal lto bother with on the forums
23.03.49 #       <MG_Man> Is there a setting to change the general volume of .SPC files on RockBox?
23.04.06 #       <MG_Man> So far the codec for it ignores the "Amplification" tag of the ID666 for it
23.04.19 #       <MG_Man> So it ends up being quieter than other actual music
23.04.27 #       <n1s> nope, no such setting
23.04.35 #       <MG_Man> hmm
23.04.36 #       <Torne> saratoga: anyway, yah. i'm not claiming that it's a showstopper or even professing that I care; i don't use a beast :)
23.04.49 #       <MG_Man> Does anyone know if there is work to add support for the amplification tag?
23.04.50 #       <Torne> saratoga: it's just something i expect to find he answer to in the process of other stuff
23.04.52 #       <n1s> sounds like that tag could be used for replay gain or something
23.05.04 #       <MG_Man> That's essentially what it is
23.05.13 #       <MG_Man> It basically makes the file play louder
23.05.14 #       <pixelma> the correct track is repeated and tracks are still in the same "order" but the playlist is shifted so that the resumed track is either the first in the playlist (and the ones you already heard are put at the end) and one time the resumed track was suddenly the last in the list
23.05.37 #       <n1s> but no, i've not heard anyone touching that codec in a long time
23.05.41 #       <Torne> MG_Man: that sounds like we should support it a la replaygain, then :)
23.06.00 #       <MG_Man> It's in an "extended" version of the tag, so that probably explains why it isnt there, but this tag is in most SPCs
23.06.46 #       <MG_Man> The problem wit hthat though is that the tag is not a decimal scale
23.06.53 #       <MG_Man> So 2.0 is not twice the volume
23.07.02 #       <pixelma> doesn't the recently committed DSP effect help there?
23.07.13 #       <MG_Man> I think that affects ALL files
23.07.18 #       <pixelma> I no nothing about SPC files though
23.07.27 #       <Torne> MG_Man: we can deal with the scale, but it still requires someone to do the work ;)
23.07.30 #       <pixelma> s/no/know
23.07.35 #       <Torne> who knows about spc, ideally
23.07.59 #       <MG_Man> It's a chiptune
23.08.02 #       <MG_Man> Well
23.08.06 #       <MG_Man> Basically it's a tracker
23.08.08 #       <MG_Man> SNES music
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23.08.17 #       <Torne> i know *what* it is. :)
23.08.23 #       <MG_Man> Think midi but with patches in the file
23.08.25 #       <MG_Man> Ah
23.08.25 #       <Torne> But most people probably know nothing about its internals
23.09.00 #       <MG_Man> Anyway
23.09.17 #       <pixelma> MG_Man: which revision of Rockbox are you running exactly?
23.09.20 #       <MG_Man> The plugin for Rockbox was based off of SNESapu which is an emulator for the SNES chip that plays the music
23.09.22 #       <MG_Man> Hold on..
23.09.33 #       <BdN3504> for purpose write manual entry "ui viewport" first want import http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomWPS#Viewports section from wiki but in doubt if everything there said right
23.09.46 #       <MG_Man> r22050-090726
23.09.54 #       <MG_Man> For the iriver h340
23.09.56 #       <BdN3504> say "If any viewports are defined, you cannot display text in the default viewport (use it for images only)"
23.10.13 #       <MG_Man> The codec was added in Feb 07, so that explains the datedness
23.10.35 #       <n1s> MG_Man: has the upstream changed since then?
23.10.38 #       <MG_Man> Someone would just need to update it to the latest SnesAPU version,but I'm ntot sure if whoever made the codec before is still around for that
23.11.19 #       <MG_Man> I'm not sure what you mean by that, still somewhat new to this
23.11.25 #       <MG_Man> By upstream
23.12.06 #       <Torne> upstream is the project we got the code from
23.12.08 #       <Torne> i.e. snesapu
23.12.29 #       <BdN3504> this no true, i have written many a theme containing tags before first vp definiton
23.12.48 #       <MG_Man> I'm pretty sure it has, let me go see
23.13.10 #       <pixelma> MG_Man: I'm not sure if it does what you want but there was an effect added in r22394 which if I understand correctly "evens" volume (makes silent passages louder, lowers loud passages' volume), maybe it could help there?
23.13.20 #       <MG_Man> I'll try it
23.13.33 #       <MG_Man> Since SPC isn't an actual wavetable format, I'm not sure if it does anything
23.13.36 #       <pixelma> something for every codec though
23.14.02 #       <pixelma> BdN3504: yes, but I think it was supposed to be true
23.14.24 #       * pixelma played by that rule in own WPSs
23.14.49 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: so parser might give error some time soon?
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23.16.45 #       <pixelma> that's what I always expected because otherwise you have something like overlapping viewports which is a nono and as I heard gives you update problems. Better ask JdGordon| though... ;)
23.17.21 #       <pixelma> and it would be nice if you talk in more complete sentences, I know you are able to
23.17.44 #       <JdGordon|> what am I being blamed for?
23.18.56 #       <pixelma> drawing in the default vp is still possible even if you use other viewports, I thought that wasn't possible or shouldn't be
23.19.03 #       <MG_Man> Well I figured out the amplification is bu dB
23.19.04 #       <MG_Man> by*
23.19.23 #       <JdGordon|> pixelma: ah shoot... did I mess up the check? you should only be able to draw images in it...
23.19.33 #       <MG_Man> There's a general pre-amp and then one for every song
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23.20.29 #       <JdGordon|> I wonder if there would be a huge outcry if we forced the skin to specify its vewport instead of assuming 0,0,width,height? that would nicely avoid the issue
23.20.54 #       <MG_Man> It would also break some skins too, but it might be easy to fix
23.21.04 #       <pixelma> JdGordon|: hmm, I didn't even do that... lot of other themers do though, I didn't follow whether they only use it for images or not
23.21.13 #       <MG_Man> As long as someone fixes them, I don't think it'll be a big problem
23.22.16 #       <JdGordon|> I didnt on purpose change any of the exsisting drawing behaviour
23.22.24 #       <MG_Man> Anyway, I can't find a simulator more up to date that I have now
23.22.26 #       <JdGordon|> IIRC really only text wasnt allowed in the default vp
23.23.27 #       <pixelma> JdGordon|: BdN3504 asked to be precise in the description of viewports in the manual. I could imagine that forcing them to define a viewport now would break quite a few WPSs
23.23.32 #       <MG_Man> Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's an spc to tracker converter out there, which would allow me to change the volume for the song myself
23.24.00 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: JdGordon|: can't we drop that rule? what harm does it do if we have some text before the vPs?
23.24.09 NHeal   leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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23.24.26 #       <pixelma> overlapping viewports?
23.24.31 #       <JdGordon|> pixelma: it would break heaps... but maybe a warning would be good
23.24.35 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: JdGordon|: and also, i don't see why viewports can't overlap, if they can
23.24.49 #       <JdGordon|> i tinhk the comment in the code blames conditionals for it actually
23.25.00 #       <BdN3504> not, then there is no use in introducing the conditionals
23.25.06 #       <BdN3504> conditional vps i mean
23.25.20 #       <JdGordon|> not conditional vps... conditional tokens
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23.25.34 #       <JdGordon|> I dont remember the specifics... and i cant look at the code now to check
23.25.51 #       <JdGordon|> apps/gui/skin_engine/skin_display.c in skin_update()
23.25.53 #       <BdN3504> but pixelma said viewports aren't allowed to overlap, or am i wrong?
23.25.56 #       <JdGordon|> maybe skin_refresh()
23.26.06 #       <pixelma> BdN3504: you can't draw two (or even more times) at the same time and spot (which overlapping could potentially cause)
23.26.18 #       <JdGordon|> technically they can, but the top one might erase the bottom one
23.26.23 Nick    Ypsy is now known as YpsyZNC (n=ypsy@geekpadawan.de)
23.27.17 #       <BdN3504> ok, so conditional vps overlapping each other is allowed?
23.27.29 #       <pixelma> yes
23.27.37 #       <BdN3504> thank you.
23.27.44 #       <pixelma> sorry that wasn't clear
23.28.50 #       <pixelma> just make sure you have no overlapping ones that are displayed at the same time
23.30.03 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: JdGordon|: so i'll just include the line that it's maculate coding if you put text before the first vp definition? 
23.30.29 #       <JdGordon|> maculate?
23.31.10 #       <BdN3504> erm opposite of immaculate
23.31.16 #       <BdN3504> maculated
23.31.21 #       <MG_Man> anyway
23.31.24 Quit    aaron424 ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.13/2009080315]")
23.31.31 #       <MG_Man> The one who seems to have brought SPC to Rockbox is either Adam or blargg
23.31.39 #       <MG_Man> Do any of you know if any of them are stil lactive?
23.32.48 #       <BdN3504> JdGordon|: What i meant to say is the integrity of the code will not be guaranteed, once you put text infront of...
23.34.41 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: JdGordon|: my initial question still remains though. Is it adequate to just copy and adapt the wiki entry for the manual? or do you think i have to write it from scratch?
23.37.22 #       <Unhelpful> saratoga: oh, yeah.... that one that assumes the blocks containing the OF were not overwritten?
23.37.43 #       <MG_Man> Okay, I found an SPC to IT converter, so I can just play it as a tracker and be fine
23.37.51 #       <MG_Man> I guess it's not an issue
23.39.24 #       <pixelma> BdN3504: the plan was to get more of these things into the manual and clean up the wiki a bit instead, although I think the CustomWPS page is still important though (also because things can change easier and the wiki is updated a bit quicker than the manual usually). I can't see what's wrong with taking bits and pieces from there... I even copied a lot from the wiki for the ZXBox chapter myself... ;)
23.40.00 #       <amiconn> bertrik: We do not have a 24bit or 32bit lcd driver yet, because until now there was no target needing it
23.40.14 #       <amiconn> But writing one should be quite simple
23.40.41 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: thanks again. i'll start now, then. (no pun intended)
23.40.50 #       <MG_Man> And anotherthing
23.40.55 #       <MG_Man> The MIDI patchset download is down
23.42.11 #       <MG_Man> Oh, it seems I was wrong
23.42.18 #       <pixelma> yeah, isn't it now hosted somewhere else?
23.42.19 #       * Unhelpful would think that this amplification tag thing would only need changes in a the metadata reader, and would therefore not require deep knowledge of SPC?
23.42.27 #       <MG_Man> The SPC plugin is based off blargg's Game_Music_Emu SPC player, which is based on OpenSPC
23.42.34 #       <Unhelpful> we could just treat it like a replaygain tag
23.42.39 #       <MG_Man> It really is
23.42.42 #       <MG_Man> A preamp
23.42.42 #       <BdN3504> JdGordon|: one thing, especially for you: these two opts "Maximum file size used is \opt{lcd_bitmap}{1600}\opt{player}{400} bytes." are now obsolete, right?
23.42.44 #       <MG_Man> By DB
23.43.17 #       <MG_Man> Anyway, if the patchset host is moved, it isn't updated on the site
23.43.30 #       <MG_Man> That is if the audiocodecs page is where I'm supposed to get it
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23.43.37 #       <JdGordon|> BdN3504: behaviour is guarenteed... drawing in the default vp isnt allowed and wont work, and yes, that is very obsolete
23.43.44 Quit    IuDeX (Client Quit)
23.44.42 #       <JdGordon|> that has been wrong for a very long time :)
23.44.44 #       <pixelma> scorche|sh: didn't you "take" the midi patchset? I could remember wrong though
23.46.59 Quit    BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
23.48.23 #       <CIA-61> New commit by 03nls (r22431): Slight cleanup in lcd.h: kill fixme and remove useless include, add some includes elsewhere and add a stub for sims instead of ifdef
23.48.37 #       <JdGordon|> BdN3504: umm... some things which might eb good to make sure are in the manual... %V| (without the l) will always be displayed, you *should* only do things like %xl %X and other "setup" things before the first %V lines (or %vd)
23.49.07 #       <MG_Man> Anyway
23.49.21 #       <BdN3504> ok.
23.49.25 #       <MG_Man> I suppose the SPC plugin is fine, just the ID666 wrapper for it needs to be updated to support ID666 Extended
23.50.07 #       <BdN3504> JdGordon|: and  %wd also HAS to be in front of the first vp declaration, right?
23.50.10 #       <JdGordon|> BdN3504: also, remove any mention of limits... the only limit anywhere is one progressbar per viewport
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23.50.26 #       <JdGordon|> no, %wd can be anywhere
23.50.32 #       <JdGordon|> thats statusbar disable?
23.50.37 #       <BdN3504> yes
23.50.43 #       <JdGordon|> yeah, it can go anywhere
23.50.54 #       <BdN3504> sorry, didn't know that :(
23.50.57 #       <MG_Man> anyway, I can't seem to find a site with details on ID666Extended, so I guess I can just say the fields here, but I dont think that'll ehlp wuth utilizing them
23.51.28 #       <JdGordon|> at least it *should* work anywhere... I cant imagine people would put it anywhere except at the start, but iirc the code should be fine
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23.53.50 #       <MG_Man> I found a site with useful specs on ID666 extended
23.53.51 #       <MG_Man> http://snesmusic.org/files/spc_file_format.txt
23.53.57 #       <MG_Man> Look at Extended ID666 Items
23.54.07 #       <MG_Man> At the bottom
23.54.14 #       <BdN3504> pixelma: JdGordon|: where'd you put the vp part: as the first subsection of "building your own", the last or somewhere in the middle?
23.54.22 #       <bluebrother> n1s: already spotted the red?
23.54.27 #       <BdN3504> i'd prefer right on top
23.55.06 #       <MG_Man> So tags for 01h-07h are already in, but no support for 10h-36h which are the extended tag fields
23.55.18 #       <n1s> bluebrother: have now ;)