--- Log for 18.02.111 Server: calvino.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 20 hours and 21 minutes ago 00.00.32 Join JdGordon1 [0] (~jonno@vl10.gw.ok-labs.com) 00.01.22 Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 00.04.31 Quit GeekShad0w (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00.09.13 Join Guinness` [0] (Slayer@c-68-55-111-159.hsd1.va.comcast.net) 00.11.31 Quit Guinness (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00.16.01 Quit ender` (Quit: All power corrupts, but we need electricity.) 00.18.54 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng173.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 00.32.22 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00.42.34 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 00.44.49 # * TheSeven is running out of ideas 00.45.28 # i've even done captures of the GPIO and MMC controller state in diagmode, but can't spot any obvious problem... 00.47.04 # jhMikeS: Thanks for uploading your readings! 00.47.38 # I'll summarize my findings in that tracker item as soon as I find the time. 00.47.44 # sideral: you can of course manually boost/unboost, if that is of any use 00.48.17 # jhMikeS: Let me know if you manage to reproduce the ClipV1 noise... 00.48.34 # TheSeven: How so? Or do you mean by changing the code? 00.48.43 # the "CPU frequency" debug screen 00.48.55 # you can increase/decrease the boost counter using some buttons 00.49.05 # oh? 00.49.09 # on the ipods it's turning the wheel, no idea about other targets 00.50.47 # probably no key is mapped for the Clip 00.51.00 # I'll investigate tomorrow -- thanks for the hint! 00.51.02 # * TheSeven doubts that 00.52.19 # sideral: it's ACTION_STD_PREV and ACTION_STD_NEXT, so the buttons you usually use to scroll in a list 00.52.47 # <[Saint]> I'm quite certain it's the same for all targets. 00.53.19 # [Saint]: in that it is PREV/NEXT, yes. but that's of course not the same button on all targets :) 00.53.41 # those would be the up and down buttons on the Clip. On the HW info screen "Clock Frequencies", Up does nothing, and Down switches to the next screen. 00.53.51 # <[Saint]> yes, well...at least you knew what I meant ;) 00.54.04 # sideral: that's the wrong screen 00.54.26 # there is (or at least should be) a dedicated "cpu frequency" entry in the debug menu 00.54.44 # (which shows nothing but the current frequency and boost counter 00.55.11 # can't find it. perhaps my target cannot boost the CPU? 00.55.26 # <[Saint]> errrrrm. 00.56.08 # apparently, as it's #ifdef HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ 00.56.32 # sideral: which exact target is it? 00.56.42 # <[Saint]> system - debug - CPU frequency (if it's not there, it can't) 00.56.45 # ClipV2 00.57.01 # doesn't have HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ 00.57.16 # yep 00.57.30 # so that one probably always runs at the full clock currently 00.58.07 # Apparently. I think the SoC has some "dynamic power management", though 00.58.24 Nick krazykit is now known as kkit|sh (~kkit@li135-248.members.linode.com) 00.59.14 # * TheSeven wonders what to do about that CE-ATA drive not working, and decides to go to sleep and continue poking at it tomorrow 01.00.49 # Anyway, need to log off now. Thanks for your assistance! 01.01.43 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 01.03.47 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 01.20.23 # does anyone in here use EAC under wine? 01.20.35 # what does that have to do with rockbox? 01.39.45 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.41.07 # Suit_Of_Sables: /join #winehg 01.41.16 # * #winehq 01.44.23 # Strife89: Yeah, wasn't getting any help in there today :*( I just thought there would be some linux users who are into ripping CDs in this channel. sorry for that 01.45.57 # Suit_Of_Sables: Sorry to hear that. 01.47.35 # Suit_Of_Sables: You might consider joining the channel that supports your distro, or joining #winehq again to see if there are different people in there. 01.52.26 # Suit_Of_Sables: See PM 02.04.36 Quit liar (Quit: Leaving) 02.11.55 Quit panni_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02.12.37 Join panni_ [0] (hannes@ip-178-203-73-7.unitymediagroup.de) 02.44.39 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) 02.46.27 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) 03.03.28 Quit leavittx_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 03.08.44 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (Dre@92.30.106.22) 03.09.52 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 03.10.50 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03.11.01 Quit afk (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03.11.44 Join afk [0] (Dre@92.30.243.114) 03.13.05 Quit Dreamxtreme (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03.13.33 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (Dre@92.30.107.33) 03.17.39 Quit afk (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03.18.40 Quit Dreamxtreme (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 03.39.47 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.56.20 Quit krazykit (Quit: awe yeeeeeee) 03.58.59 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 04.00.18 Quit Suit_Of_Sables (Remote host closed the connection) 04.06.24 Quit DerPapst1 (Quit: Leaving.) 04.15.54 Nick Rondom_ is now known as Rondom (~rondom@lvps178-77-79-47.dedicated.hosteurope.de) 04.27.13 Quit Battousai (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04.37.48 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.37.48 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.37.51 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.37.51 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.38.06 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.38.07 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.39.57 Join Battousai [0] (~bryan@gentoo/developer/battousai) 04.45.27 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04.45.51 Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 04.48.25 Quit factor (Client Quit) 04.48.28 # Buschel: going over last nights logs, my mini2g also occasionally does some really bad lockups, including playing static when it does 04.48.44 # but I always assumed it was the CF card or filesystem stuffing up 04.49.00 Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 04.58.27 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04.59.13 Quit Barahir_ (Read error: Operation timed out) 05.02.01 Join Barahir [0] (~jonathan@frnk-590f7c59.pool.mediaWays.net) 05.02.35 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.13.03 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.13.31 Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 05.14.55 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (Dre@92.30.245.150) 05.29.07 Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201) 05.29.18 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.139.169.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 05.30.08 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF2A10.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.34.43 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 05.39.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.39.56 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 05.48.57 Quit antil33t () 05.59.13 Join Judas_PhD [0] (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) 06.14.50 Quit elcan (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06.15.39 Join elcan [0] (user36@pr0.us) 06.31.26 Quit Battousai (Quit: Leaving) 06.32.26 Join Battousai [0] (~bryan@gentoo/developer/battousai) 06.35.32 Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg) 06.35.32 Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii) 06.48.47 Quit panni_ (Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )) 06.51.03 Join Izzy__ [0] (~Izzy@50.35.228.110) 06.53.33 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 06.54.33 Quit Izzy_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 06.56.50 Join Unhelpful_ [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 07.00.50 Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07.08.33 Quit JdGordon1 (Quit: leaving) 07.09.39 Quit mystica555 (Remote host closed the connection) 07.16.51 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07.17.58 Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 07.26.19 Join mystica555 [0] (~Mike@m3e2636d0.tmodns.net) 07.35.44 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A39D29.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.38.37 # JdGordon|: could try to disable HAVE_ATA_DMA for your build and see if the lockups still occur? 07.39.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.42.08 # Buschel: well the problem is there is no reliable repro (for me anyway) and recently i've noticed it alot less (i think)... but sure 07.42.19 # if i remember tomorow night, unless you want to build me one quickly? :) 07.43.15 # well, to have reasonable results from such build it should be used for a while. so, no hurry 07.46.30 # i can leave it going for the next 25h and see if it makes it the whole? 07.50.35 # why not, if this is normally sufficient to get it stuck. 07.54.51 Quit t0rc (Remote host closed the connection) 07.57.39 Join eGen_ [0] (generat0r@gate.mmdecin.cz) 08.04.28 Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244) 08.15.07 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@ree79-1-78-237-225-34.fbx.proxad.net) 08.15.07 Quit GeekShadow (Changing host) 08.15.07 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 08.19.53 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) 08.22.38 Join Loto [0] (~nfs@S01060012171a84e3.no.shawcable.net) 08.22.38 Quit Loto (Changing host) 08.22.39 Join Loto [0] (~nfs@xbmc/user/Loto) 08.27.19 Join FoH [0] (~foh@adsl-240-126-222.bhm.bellsouth.net) 08.29.22 Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 08.34.23 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@124-168-132-222.dyn.iinet.net.au) 08.34.23 Quit JdGordon| (Changing host) 08.34.23 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 08.38.14 Join B4gder [0] (~danielx@2a00:1a28:1200:9::2) 08.38.14 Quit B4gder (Changing host) 08.38.15 Join B4gder [0] (~danielx@rockbox/developer/bagder) 08.41.04 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 08.45.39 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng173.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 08.47.00 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.54.08 # Buschel: ok, I've just loaded svn+!HAVE_ATA_DMA, If its still playing this time tomorrow night I'll do another test tomorow night without the change 08.54.34 # I do have a second mini2g although its not really an equivilant test (that one doesnt have CF and no idea if it shows the problem) 08.54.49 Quit eGen_ (Quit: ... gettin' screew my wife ....) 08.54.57 Quit mystica555 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.58.27 Join mystica555 [0] (~Mike@m3e2636d0.tmodns.net) 09.05.32 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-203-49.unitymediagroup.de) 09.05.39 Join Zagor [0] (bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 09.06.35 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.14.18 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@sb-fw.bmc.uu.se) 09.14.19 Quit n1s (Changing host) 09.14.19 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) 09.15.42 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:7d0:0:f9af:feed:feed:feed:feed) 09.28.28 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 09.30.02 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:7d0:0:f9af:feed:feed:feed:feed) 09.37.04 Join leavittx_ [0] (~lev@89.221.199.187) 09.38.36 Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 09.39.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.44.40 Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 09.59.02 Quit sasquatch (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 09.59.26 Join sasquatch [0] (~username@p4FF2D980.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.03.48 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 10.07.29 Join eGen_ [0] (generat0r@gate.mmdecin.cz) 10.07.51 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 10.07.51 Quit sideral (Changing host) 10.07.51 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 10.19.06 # literal: Have you had a chance to try whether the background noise is also audible during regular playback (when there's no disk access, no UI interaction)? 10.19.08 Quit leavittx_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 10.32.11 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) 10.35.35 Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@dslb-188-107-174-146.pools.arcor-ip.net) 10.42.57 Join sideral1 [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 10.42.57 Quit sideral (Disconnected by services) 10.42.57 Nick sideral1 is now known as sideral (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 10.42.58 Quit sideral (Changing host) 10.42.58 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 10.45.12 Join casainho [0] (~chatzilla@pal-213-228-181-14.netvisao.pt) 10.45.13 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 10.46.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 10.46.16 Quit sideral (Changing host) 10.46.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 10.55.29 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 10.56.18 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 10.56.18 Quit sideral (Changing host) 10.56.18 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 11.00.26 Quit casainho (Remote host closed the connection) 11.04.42 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 11.05.43 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 11.05.59 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 11.06.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 11.06.16 Quit sideral (Changing host) 11.06.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 11.19.54 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 11.39.58 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.50.25 Join Kitr88 [0] (~Kitarist@BSN-182-104-42.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) 11.52.31 # hmm, I want to move draw_album_art() out of albumart.c. but where to? 11.54.05 Quit Kitar|st (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11.54.05 # (because it isn't really album art code. it is wps code.) 11.54.29 # and therefore does not belong in the playback library 11.55.35 # somewhere in skin_engine? 11.55.39 Quit Kitr88 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 11.59.53 Join Kitar|st [0] (Kitarist@BSN-182-66-53.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) 12.00.25 Join user890104 [0] (Venci@venci-notebook-lan.ipv6.6bez10.info) 12.38.21 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust964.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 12.39.42 # <[Saint]> Zagor: seems appropriate to me...though I imagine JdGordon| is probably one to pester about this. 13.05.37 # <[Saint]> is " export ANDROID_NDK_PATH="$HOME/android-dev/android-ndk-r5b-linux-x86/" " correct syntax to add thos environment variable to my ~/.profile ? 13.05.55 # <[Saint]> it doesn't seem to be finding the toolchain :-/ 13.08.49 Join evilnick [0] (18bcf602@rockbox/staff/evilnick) 13.19.41 # Okay, I have a Philips HDD6330 here that my friend has managed to fisk the headphone jack on, is there a takeapart on it someplace? Lacks the conventional screws 13.20.28 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 13.22.09 Quit Unhelpful_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13.22.49 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 13.30.44 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 13.40.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.57.09 Quit krazykit (Quit: baby bye bye bye) 14.05.41 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14.06.06 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 14.08.03 Join dfkt|x [0] (~dfkt@chello062178002170.1.11.univie.teleweb.at) 14.08.04 Quit dfkt|x (Changing host) 14.08.04 Join dfkt|x [0] (~dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 14.16.06 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 14.18.07 # Is there a reason why Flyspray doesn't offer all (or at least all supported) platforms or targets for the Player Type field? I'm missing the Sansa AMSv2 platform or targets. 14.19.10 # I think it would be best if that field captured the platform, so that all bugs related to a particular family of players could be queried 14.20.36 # sideral: added 14.21.18 Join Highlander [0] (~Highlande@mek33-4-82-236-45-205.fbx.proxad.net) 14.21.35 # that was quick, thanks Zagor! 14.25.29 # I'm here to help :) 14.26.11 # is there an explanation why the biggest screen resolution raaa build has a smaller file size than the other ones? - http://pastie.org/1578657 14.37.31 # Zagor: Looks like I can't search Flyspray by Player Type... Is it possible to add that field to the query mask? 14.38.16 # umm, I guess. "possible" is a wide word :) 14.38.38 # Zagor: do it now! 14.38.43 # better? ;) 14.39.34 # I'd have to muck about in the php code, which I try to avoid 14.40.21 # Too bad. I'd have wagered there's a list of fields to present in the search mask... 14.41.11 # not that I can find 14.43.32 Quit shai (Quit: Leaving) 14.44.02 Quit dfkt|x (Remote host closed the connection) 14.45.26 # (i'm still here, if anyone knows the answer to the above ;) 14.47.52 # dfkt: maybe some resolution dependant files have not been adapted, like backdrops 14.48.17 # you know, you could check which files are included in each build 14.49.05 # n1s, thanks, i will check 14.50.51 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.146.31) 14.51.29 Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 14.54.02 # Zagor: Should we file a bug with the Flyspray developers? 14.56.36 # sideral: unfortunately flyspray development seems to have stagnated AFAICT 14.56.39 # I don't know if they are alive anymore. last release was nearly two years ago. 14.57.04 # last commit was in November so that's a bad sing too 14.57.25 # Hmm... probably because Flyspray already is nearly perfect -- save for this one last feature ;) 14.57.45 # there was a "is the project still alive" question on the mailing list in september, without any dev response... 14.57.58 # ouch 14.59.04 Join MrChimp [0] (~Miranda@81.168.114.190) 14.59.26 # So, back to the php hacking plan... 15.00.39 # Right now it's impossible to search or filter by any of the extended fields 15.01.57 # Ah no, Player Type is the only one :) 15.02.50 # player type was be called "operating system" originally 15.03.44 # in case you want to experiment with url construction 15.03.54 # variable name "os", I think 15.04.06 # I'm doing that right now :) 15.06.34 # hi everyone...I have an iPod Nano 4G. Am I right in saying installing rockbox will leave the ipod OS unaffected? 15.07.00 # Installing rockbox won't work, as we don't support the nano 4g 15.07.07 # on models we do support, it leaves the ipod OS unaffected 15.08.21 # Ah, I mis-read. iPod 4th gen, not Nano 4th Gen. Ah well. 15.09.23 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) 15.10.08 # Zagor: Nope, doesn't seem to work. (Tried "os[]=34" and "operating_system[]=34" as URL components. The 34 is the ID of "AMSv2" in the New Task dialog.) 15.10.33 Part MrChimp ("I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org") 15.16.55 # Zagor: Does Flyspray have a web API to export its DB as XML or JSON so that I could run my own queries on it? 15.21.35 Join leavittx [0] (~lev@nat172-248-205-109.tvoe.tv) 15.23.35 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) 15.26.20 Quit Highlander (Quit: Quitte) 15.34.39 Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar) 15.35.17 Part LinusN 15.37.06 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15.37.19 Quit [Saint] (Quit: I'm only going to Heaven if it feels like Hell, I'm only going to Heaven if it tastes like caramel...) 15.40.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.41.32 # sideral: I don't know 15.42.02 # I suppose we could expose some of the mysql tables read-only 15.42.18 Join [Saint] [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.0.13) 15.43.42 Join enthdegree [0] (~enthdegre@vpn2.waketech.edu) 15.48.14 # Zagor: Sounds like it's much more trouble that it's worth. Thanks for now! 15.48.36 # ok 15.49.46 Quit B4gder (Remote host closed the connection) 15.51.19 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15.56.47 Join [Saint] [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.0.13) 16.04.15 Join user890104 [0] (Venci@venci-notebook-lan.ipv6.6bez10.info) 16.05.43 Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16.06.35 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@89.204.137.146) 16.09.45 Quit user890104 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.09.53 Join user890104 [0] (Venci@venci-notebook-lan.ipv6.6bez10.info) 16.12.53 Join user890104_ [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info) 16.13.05 Quit user890104 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.15.49 # skin_display.c looks like a reasonable place to put it 16.16.48 Quit tintamarre (Remote host closed the connection) 16.17.38 Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) 16.30.52 Quit enthdegree (Quit: leaving) 16.46.14 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message) 16.48.42 Join Judas_PhD [0] (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) 16.49.47 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 16.51.21 Quit Judas_PhD (Client Quit) 16.58.54 Part Zagor 17.03.59 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me)) 17.08.14 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) 17.18.39 Quit bluefoxx (Quit: Can we, should we, will we?) 17.19.25 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106485b3917092d.vs.shawcable.net) 17.23.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p5DD56DE5.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.23.22 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 17.23.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 17.37.16 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@SEAS315.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) 17.40.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.46.09 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 17.46.23 Join vnl [0] (~slayer@cpc5-king10-2-0-cust73.perr.cable.virginmedia.com) 17.46.57 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 17.56.32 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 18.02.55 Quit powell14ski_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 18.04.24 Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B4CA6B.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.09.07 Join Izzy_ [0] (~Izzy@50.35.228.110) 18.12.32 Quit Izzy__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18.21.58 Join panni_ [0] (hannes@ip-178-203-73-7.unitymediagroup.de) 18.33.59 Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@79.132.59.245) 18.40.26 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 18.42.22 Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.) 18.48.51 Join toffe82 [0] (~chatzilla@maf.wirelesstcp.net) 18.54.00 Part miceh 18.56.00 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust964.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 19.02.04 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 19.06.40 Join lixxus [0] (~Mehdi@94-193-44-17.zone7.bethere.co.uk) 19.10.49 Join sweetandy [0] (~sweetandy@unaffiliated/sweetandy) 19.12.28 Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) 19.19.26 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (www-data@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37) 19.20.01 # TheSeven: Ping 19.21.27 # Hmm, my screen will only light up if (and only if) it is connected to my computer. Otherwise it's as if the battery is completely dead, even though it is fully charged. Huh. 19.22.03 # I'm a genius. I hit it opposite to the way I dropped it and it works now 19.22.19 # LambdaCalculus37: gniP 19.22.19 Part sweetandy ("Ex-Chat") 19.23.05 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) 19.24.28 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) 19.25.07 # TheSeven: Found out something interesting about the 6th gen nano. It is indeed running iOS. 19.25.59 # Albeit a very, very scaled down version meant for only audio playback, picture display, and the clock, and adding outside apps disabled. 19.26.20 # LambdaCalculus37: how do you know that it's ios? 19.26.40 # TheSeven: Tore apart a firmware update. 19.27.34 # Plus got into an interesting conversation with an iOS dev at an Apple Store about the subject. 19.29.43 # * LambdaCalculus37 has to go back to work 19.29.47 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: back to work) 19.36.38 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 19.40.11 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.41.56 Quit lixxus (Quit: Leaving.) 19.42.10 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.198.221) 19.43.05 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 19.43.49 Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.) 19.44.36 Join lixxus [0] (~Mehdi@94-193-44-17.zone7.bethere.co.uk) 19.52.29 # hello 19.53.17 # kugel: in case you read the logs: shouldn't FS #11766 be closed ? 19.55.20 Part vnl 19.55.26 Quit bluefoxx (Quit: Can we, should we, will we?) 19.55.33 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106485b3917092d.vs.shawcable.net) 19.59.52 Quit bluefoxx (Client Quit) 20.00.00 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106485b3917092d.vs.shawcable.net) 20.04.49 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 20.06.56 Quit user890104_ () 20.10.10 Quit Bagder (Quit: connection reset by beer) 20.16.30 Join Jerom1 [0] (~jerome@79.132.59.245) 20.16.30 Quit Jerom (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.17.08 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi) 20.18.01 Join factor_ [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 20.25.20 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B66667.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.26.35 Quit bluefoxx (Quit: Can we, should we, will we?) 20.26.40 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106485b3917092d.vs.shawcable.net) 20.35.29 Join {phoenix} [0] (~dirk@p57AA5B77.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.37.37 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 20.44.07 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 20.44.07 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 20.44.07 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 20.46.52 Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 20.52.22 Quit dionoea (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 20.53.09 Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@yop.chewa.net) 20.53.32 Quit dionoea (Changing host) 20.53.32 Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@videolan/developer/dionoea) 20.59.43 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) 21.03.18 Quit factor_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.07.43 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 21.09.03 Join factor_ [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) 21.22.35 Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info) 21.27.58 Quit [Saint] (Disconnected by services) 21.28.00 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.1.244) 21.30.17 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.146.31) 21.33.03 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21.36.19 Join [Saint] [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.1.244) 21.40.14 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.43.04 Part lixxus 21.43.14 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 21.43.14 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 21.43.14 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 21.43.51 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@e178058159.adsl.alicedsl.de) 21.43.53 Quit kugel (Changing host) 21.43.53 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 21.46.29 Join leavittx [0] (~lev@89.221.199.187) 21.50.00 Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-067-037-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) 21.53.31 Join fml [0] (~chatzilla@manz-590ee198.pool.mediaWays.net) 21.55.33 # Hello. I'm trying to investigate the error in disktidy plugin described in http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27247.0.html. I start the H120 simulator, launch the plugin and get many errors "SDL_WaitEvent() error", and after that a Segmentation fault. What could be the reason? Where should I start to look? 21.55.44 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!) 21.56.32 # The error seems to have nothing to do with the particular folder name (##MUSIC#). It also occurs if I just try to clean e.g. Linux trash files. 21.59.18 Nick thomasjfox is now known as thomasjfox_ (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-067-037-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) 22.01.51 Quit thomasjfox_ (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 22.02.12 Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-067-037-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) 22.02.45 # I couldn't find any occurrences of "SDL_WaitEvent() error" in the source code 22.03.11 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) 22.03.22 Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@dslb-088-067-037-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) 22.04.16 Quit mystica555 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22.04.17 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3A5FA.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.04.41 # fml: firmware/target/hosted/sdl/button-sdl.c, line 283 22.05.04 # Buschel: yes, sorry, now I've found that too 22.05.51 # dionoea: hey, I tried changing the intent mechanism for the widgets (KeyEvent in the intent's extra data) 22.06.00 # but for some reason it doesn't work at all 22.06.22 # Buschel: Thanks for the uninitialized vars fixes! 22.06.40 # Buschel: Any comment about FS #11947? I'm about to commit the off-by-one-fix 22.06.41 # the keyevent is wrong when I read it in the service 22.06.56 # thomasjfox: no problem. it remined me of my good old PCLint times ;) 22.07.15 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) 22.07.31 # Buschel: Did you try PCLint on rockbox? That's something I wanted to do -sometime- 22.07.44 # thomasjfox: no, I never tried 22.07.50 # thomasjfox: it should go in. it seems like an obvious and needed fix for me 22.08.04 # kugel: What puzzles me is the comment 22.08.11 # kugel: Is state "Zero terminate the string" 22.08.16 # It just search for \r or \n 22.08.24 # Maybe it should also search for \0? 22.09.52 # will compilers always create code that first checks for "(i <- FS#11947 22.10.31 Quit Xerion (Quit: ) 22.10.40 # thomasjfox: your patch doesnt change the logic (whatever the logic is), does it? 22.10.40 # Buschel: Yes, I'm pretty sure about that. && and || will be execute in order. 22.11.09 # kugel: I'll just fix the buffer access. Logic fixes might come in a separate commit 22.11.26 Quit fml (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206122310]) 22.11.45 # Buschel: the compiler doesn't (and must not) reorder the conditions 22.11.59 # thomasjfox: any details about your rew/ff obervations? 22.12.35 Quit thomasjfox (Changing host) 22.12.35 Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) 22.13.18 # if so the change should go in. it will not harm anything 22.13.29 # * scorche salutes thomasjfox 22.15.42 # Buschel: That's what I'm about to investigate now. Got delayed by my neighbours car battery... 22.16.01 Join maxsin [0] (~maxsin@188-115-150-221.broadband.tenet.odessa.UA) 22.16.33 # * thomasjfox is now officially rockbox cloaked. thanks scorche ;) 22.21.46 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) 22.21.54 # New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29324): Fix off-by-one buffer read access in format_track_path(). Part of #11947 ... 22.23.26 # that sounds fairly serious 22.23.37 # did that off by 1 error cause any problems? 22.24.49 # Not that I detected any. Though it depends on the memory location. If it reads past the memory allocated by rockbox, it will segfault. 22.25.49 # r29324 build result: All green 22.28.24 Join {-phoenix-} [0] (~dirk@p57AA7389.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.29.51 # kugel: hum ... it's hard to guess what could be wrong without seeing the code :) 22.30.39 # dionoea: http://pastie.org/1580309 22.32.33 Quit {phoenix} (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22.35.44 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 22.36.36 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 22.40.01 # New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29325): Don't underflow the buffer in format_track_path() if it consists of whitespaces 22.42.03 Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@5419A4D7.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) 22.42.30 # kugel: hum ... the code looks fine to me :/ (Why do you run putExtra() in getPendingIntent() instead of in the constructor?) 22.43.35 # dionoea: a lame attempt to make it work :) 22.43.51 # r29325 build result: All green 22.43.53 # ah ok. And is intent.keycode ok? (If you cast the intent in the service) 22.43.58 Join ej0rge [0] (~alhaz@alhaz.fttp.xmission.com) 22.44.24 # I also tried without this wrapper class without success 22.44.46 # no, the keycode is wrong (always stop button) 22.44.46 # Do i presume correctly that the patch in task 8894 is more or less rejected and abandoned since mid-2009? 22.45.52 # ej0rge: huh? 22.45.52 # thomasjfox: about to commit the thread rework, what was the issue you found again? 22.46.00 # ej0rge: Errr, it says accepted 22.46.13 # kugel: SDL threads didn't compile anymore 22.46.29 # whoops, sorry, i fail at reading comprehension 22.46.32 # kugel: Some variable was not defined 22.51.20 # kugel: and if you always use MEDIA_NEXT will it also send MEDIA_STOP? (did you try a clean build directory?) 22.51.47 # (i had weird build problems once ... not due to changes in the java code though but you never know) 22.51.51 # it'll only send stop. yes I tried a clean build 22.53.44 # hum ... I don't have the slighest clue 22.55.26 # maybe something due to the media button receiver? (I doubt it since the intent is targeted specifically at the service) 22.56.28 # I'll give it a try tomorrow 22.56.51 # New commit by 03thomasjfox (r29326): Make sure we don't read past the end of a C-string in format_track_path. Second part of FS #11947 23.00.46 # r29326 build result: All green 23.05.25 # Is this normal rockbox behavior: I queue up about 150 tracks in the playlist and press ff really fast. Suddenly the complete playlist changes to something else like a full album not even in that folder?? 23.05.35 # Or is there some kind of ff to next folder feature? 23.05.50 Quit esperegu (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23.09.09 # thomasjfox: that's a feature yes 23.09.33 # short ff followed by long ff within 1s or so will advance to the next folder 23.10.18 # kugel: Thanks. Now I can trigger it ;) Rockbox is really a feature monster... 23.12.10 Join kkurbjun [0] (~kkurbjun@c-24-9-122-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 23.12.33 Quit kkurbjun (Changing host) 23.12.33 Join kkurbjun [0] (~kkurbjun@rockbox/developer/kkurbjun) 23.13.00 # Does anyone know if any of the bootloaders work with software USB? 23.13.17 # I am trying to get it working on the M:Robe, but it doesn't seem to be active 23.13.18 Join casainho [0] (~chatzilla@bl20-146-26.dsl.telepac.pt) 23.13.27 # works fine with the main build 23.13.32 # kkurbjun: gigabeat S, and possibly some of the PP ones these days 23.14.06 # gevaerts - do you know what needs to be done? I tried emulating what the S was doing, but it still didn't work 23.14.26 # also, I was looking at the GSOC - I saw the idea for relocatable plugins 23.14.34 # kkurbjun: not really. jhMikeS did that 23.14.43 # I think you could do it without elf if you use -fpic 23.15.07 # you would just need to follow the abi for position independent code for each target 23.15.24 # kkurbjun: you need relocation handling, whether that is elf or something else. Only -fpic is not sufficient 23.15.37 # Buschel (logs): With your recent initialization fixes, the rew/ff issue seems gone in valgrind 23.15.51 # Couldn't you just load a binary blob to an address and setup the offset table? 23.16.28 # It's been a while since I looked at it... 23.16.40 # * gevaerts waits for Torne to comment. he knows better :) 23.17.23 # well no worries, it was just a thought - I believe that u-boot does it without a full elf loader 23.17.32 # but that might just be relocation 23.18.10 # Oh, you definitely don't need full elf 23.18.40 # well, yes, I should have said with a binary blob 23.19.03 # in anycase I think it's a cool idea for a project 23.19.52 # Yes. I think we really need such a thing 23.23.36 # * kugel ponders :) 23.28.10 # kugel: Do you sometimes get stuck keyboard keys on android? Like you pressed the up key only once and rockbox keeps scrolling? 23.28.38 # keyboard? 23.28.50 # kkurbjun: -fpic is basically useless :) 23.28.58 # why is that? 23.29.09 # kugel: Okay, so your phone doesn't have that :) 23.29.18 # because you still need ld.so 23.29.55 # and because you can't output as binary, so you end up needing, er, ELF :) 23.30.04 # hmm 23.30.10 # I've seen it done on microblaze 23.30.20 # but I havn't messed around with it on arm 23.30.39 # without a special loader - the abi on that only used one register to calculate the offsets though 23.30.47 # Yes, -fpic doesn't work like that 23.31.05 # you just had to set r12 to the load address and the program was compiled with offsets that are calculated based on that register 23.31.15 # yes. gcc doesn't do that. :) 23.31.21 # except for MIPS 23.31.29 # that was gcc on microblaze 23.31.47 # is there documentation on fpic or fPIC? 23.31.54 # microblaze is MIPS, no? 23.31.56 # I don't know if fPIC is supported on ARM though 23.32.06 # -fpic and -fPIC are almost identical 23.32.16 # microblaze is the soft processor Xilinx makes 23.32.20 # yes, but it's a MIPS 23.32.23 # becaue MIPS is free 23.32.33 # unless i'm misremembering 23.32.44 # its not mips to my knowledge 23.32.50 # anyway, the register based pic data implementation is implemented in the arch backend 23.32.54 # ARM doesn't have one 23.32.58 # like most other arches :) 23.33.44 # PIC otherwise uses a PLT and a function to get the base address over and over. 23.34.18 # it's purely a mechanism to reduce the number of unique pages you need on a system, not to avoid the need for a full dynamic loader 23.34.43 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me)) 23.35.03 # do you have any documentation you could point to on the pic implementation for ARM? 23.35.11 # there is no pic implementatoin for ARM 23.35.22 # that's the whole point 23.35.32 # microblaze is not mips, no 23.35.33 # the pic implementation is for linux, not any arch 23.35.43 # and thus assumes ld-linux.so 23.36.17 # I think they are using it in U-boot now 23.36.23 # on arm 23.36.46 # for what? 23.37.00 # so that uboot doesn't need a static address when compiling 23.37.09 # so that it can run with one binary on a number of boards 23.37.21 # with different memory sizes (they load at the end of memory) 23.39.41 # That's not position independant at all 23.39.44 # It just relocates itself 23.39.49 # http://git.denx.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=u-boot.git;a=blob;f=doc/README.arm-relocation;h=c0957c210ceca37efd1c9c236768df57b8456c6e;hb=HEAD 23.40.16 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.40.38 # the startup code is written to be position independant by hand, either by being in asm or by being extremely careful in C, and then it applies a relocation table generated by the linker to itself 23.40.47 # which is exactly what we're proposing to do for rockbox 23.41.50 # writing PIC code in ARM is easy until you need to refer to something outside the .text section ;) 23.41.53 # gotcha, but the u-boot image is a binary blob 23.42.02 # so I am missing something on the need for elf support 23.42.25 # yes, and the linker script throws the ELF relocation records onto the end of the blob 23.42.32 # so the relocation code needs to be able to parse ELF relocs 23.42.54 # and it has to know where the relocatoins are, which it does by having the linker script just emit symbols for them 23.42.59 # which works because u-boot is a single binary 23.43.17 # For us to load plugins we would at minimum need some kind of header for the location of that info 23.43.47 # i suspect it might be a better idea to use an existing lightweight binary format rather than invent our own wrapper around a blob with ELF relocs appended 23.43.57 # since we're not linking everything into one binary. 23.44.50 # hmm, in terms of the callbacks to the main firmware you mean? 23.44.52 # the u-boot relocatoin loop depends on the linker only outputting type 23 and type 2 relocations since it can't parse anything else, and that's kinda fragile 23.45.19 # since future ARM instruction set changes or whatever might need different reloc types and then the compiler will generate something that its loader can' thandle 23.45.51 # The calls back to the rockbox binary aren't really relevant 23.46.07 # To begin with it would be easiest to just keep doing them exactly as we do now 23.46.07 # New commit by 03kugel (r29327): Implement cooperative threads on hosted platforms using C code. ... 23.46.12 # via the rb structure. 23.46.15 # what else is being linked seperately? 23.46.24 # hm? the plugins ar elinked seperately to the main binary 23.46.43 # so the relocating loader won't have access to symbols in the plugins 23.46.58 # because that's in a different file :) 23.48.37 # thomasjfox: you can now adapt maemo 23.48.58 # kugel: Yeah! 23.49.18 # kugel: Currently tracking down the stuck buttons in the SDL app build... 23.49.25 # .. so plugins only communicate/use code through the rb structure to the main binary - that part I understand - but I don't get how the plugins are significantly different from a u-boot binary 23.49.41 # because the u-boot binary contains both the relocatoin code and the code that needs to be relocated 23.49.41 # I mean besides the use of that structure 23.49.48 # ahh 23.49.49 # so it already knows where the relocations are, because it's linked to them 23.49.57 # I see so you need the header to find them 23.50.00 # makes sense 23.50.20 # yes. and rather than keep inventing more ad hoc data structures for doing htat, i think it might be more sensible to use FLT or some other known binary format 23.50.35 # which is lighter and simpler than ELF but already has existing tools to create/manipulate it 23.50.38 # that's a minor detail, though 23.50.48 # gotcha - I'm not familiar with FLT - I was just thinking that ELF might be overkill 23.50.51 # anyway, the main point is yes, we want to do it in broadly the way that u-boot does it. 23.51.01 # but u-boot doesn't use -fpic or anything similar 23.51.03 # because that sucks 23.51.04 # :) 23.51.21 # that would generate crazy relocs that it'd never be able to apply without understanding way more of ELF 23.51.25 # so they use pie instead correct? 23.51.38 # r29327 build result: 987 errors, 121 warnings (kugel committed) 23.51.56 # yes, but we needn't. 23.51.58 # i don't think. 23.52.13 # plugins don't need to have a final link done on them, they're not really executables 23.52.22 # the FLT way doesn't require any such thing 23.52.37 # you just build the code and link it with -r so the relocations are retained and symbols are allowed to just be undefined 23.52.47 # then elf2flt converts it to FLT from that. 23.52.51 # kugel: new highscore? 23.53.04 # no :) 23.53.06 # interesting 23.53.25 # once regular relocation works we could also throw out the rb structure and just allow plugins to link directly to functions in core 23.53.36 # thomasjfox: that's not anywhere near a highscore 23.53.44 # those would then be undefined at link time, and the flt image would tell you where to look them up 23.54.01 # that's fiddlier, though; ABI compatibility and the like 23.54.03 # how "heavy" is flt? 23.54.07 # and it's a second step, unrelated 23.54.09 # miniscule 23.54.18 # I mean would it have a significant impact on the binary size of rockbox? 23.54.31 # nope, the relocation loop is probably eight lines or so :) 23.54.31 Quit [Saint] (Disconnected by services) 23.54.32 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (S_a_i_n_t@203.184.1.146) 23.54.44 # oh nice 23.54.45 # haha 23.54.54 # it literally is just a header, text section, data section, and a table of relocations which are all the same format/type 23.55.16 # weeh, that warning in thread.c is suspicious 23.55.18 # cool, sounds like a nice solution then 23.55.28 # you just need to look at each offset, deduce from its locatoin whether it's a data or text reloc, and then patch the target site by the base address of the relevant section 23.55.30 # The actual work is going to be in the build system I think 23.55.41 # the problem is that it doesn't support arbitrary sections so plugins that use iram may be an issue 23.55.47 # And of course making use of the new possibilities 23.55.56 # If we only allow one thing at a time to be using iram then that's okay 23.56.04 # since you can just link those as fixed addresses 23.56.32 # but yeah, elf2flt is a readily available tool and it's used/maintained by uClinux so it's an active thing 23.56.37 # though sadly it's not super well documented ;) 23.57.06 # so yes, the work would be working out what to change in the build system and link scripts 23.57.13 # until it produces the right binaries 23.57.19 # the actual relocating loader shouldn't be super hard :) 23.57.39 # and if it turns out FLT isn't really suitable you could do something else. 23.57.47 # i just think inventing our own format should be a last resort 23.58.12 # (if nothing else because it means someone *might* have to write a tool that can read ELF binaries and that's Not Fun At All) :) 23.58.38 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 23.58.40 Join bluebroth3r [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)