--- Log for 06.05.111 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 hour and 16 minutes ago 00.00.54 Quit Jerom1 (Quit: Leaving.) 00.03.42 Quit gartral (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 00.07.38 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ) 00.11.03 Quit Xerion (Read error: Operation timed out) 00.19.32 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 00.25.33 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 00.29.51 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng100.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 00.44.33 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 00.44.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.46.09 Quit ender` (Quit: I will make sure that my doomsday device is up to code and properly grounded. -- Evil Overlord List #86) 00.59.25 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 01.01.07 Join factor [0] (~factor@r74-195-188-223.msk1cmtc01.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) 01.11.10 Quit DerPapst1 (Quit: Leaving.) 01.13.24 # B4gder: there already runs a script on the servers vto push to a git remote 01.15.43 Part toffe82 01.16.27 # you could add github as another remote and do git push --all 01.21.30 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.22.04 # kugelp: those are intended for moving the front of the buffer. 01.33.26 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 01.34.12 # Unhelpful: towards the end? 01.35.02 # or away from - it can add or remove space @ the bottom of the buffer, depending on which you call. 01.35.11 Join Topy [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 01.37.05 # and the free space is then returned? pictureflow seems to use it directly 01.38.13 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.39.50 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) 01.41.51 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 01.42.10 Quit [Saint] (Client Quit) 01.44.48 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 01.50.03 Join Staphylo [0] (staphylo@hyperion.epimeros.org) 01.56.02 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 01.57.29 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 01.58.57 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 02.01.04 Quit Topy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02.17.01 Join Scromple_ [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 02.19.10 Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02.44.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.55.39 Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) 03.03.44 Join gartral [0] (~gareth@unaffiliated/gartral) 03.03.54 Nick Scromple_ is now known as Scromple (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 03.04.32 Part mem_ 03.08.54 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 03.15.14 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@g231227117.adsl.alicedsl.de) 03.15.15 Quit kugel (Changing host) 03.15.15 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 03.15.23 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp2 (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 03.19.17 Quit gevaerts (Disconnected by services) 03.19.27 Join gevaerts_ [0] (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 03.20.21 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03.20.21 Quit kugelp (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03.20.22 Quit bluebrother (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03.20.37 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@99-126-205-52.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 03.25.19 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@f053154243.adsl.alicedsl.de) 03.25.19 Quit bluebrother (Changing host) 03.25.19 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 03.41.04 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Working on a hard drive.) 03.43.26 Join JoshuaChang [0] (~JoshuaCha@180.175.4.98) 03.53.54 Quit alexbobp (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03.54.21 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@5ada16dc.bb.sky.com) 03.54.21 Quit GodEater_ (Changing host) 03.54.21 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 03.57.41 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04.00.57 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 04.01.06 Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 04.03.37 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@ppp-70-253-82-210.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) 04.09.43 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.09.43 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.09.45 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.09.47 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.09.49 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.10.01 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.26.58 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@e178058132.adsl.alicedsl.de) 04.26.58 Quit kugel (Changing host) 04.26.58 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 04.27.57 Quit alexbobp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04.28.45 Quit kugelp2 (Read error: Operation timed out) 04.38.12 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@ppp-70-253-93-50.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) 04.44.47 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.55.38 Quit T44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04.59.39 Quit [7] (Disconnected by services) 04.59.46 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.01.03 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 05.12.30 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF22FA.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.12.39 Quit alexbobp (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.16.18 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 05.21.09 Quit gartral (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.23.59 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@adsl-75-42-224-55.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) 05.41.37 Quit Strath (Quit: Don't push the red button!) 05.42.55 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 05.46.47 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 05.59.25 Quit JesusChrysler (Quit: JesusChrysler) 06.04.39 Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06.44.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.50.48 # why some targets don't build pdbox plugin? 06.55.40 # not enough ram? 07.00.56 # i don't think so, the sansa fuze v2 build it, but cowon d2/gigabeat s don't. 07.15.31 # pdbox is a half-finished project as far as I know, just not adapted for many different screen sizes, buttonmaps and whatever eles is needed 07.18.01 # thanks for the explain 07.32.59 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B67AFD.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.33.51 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 07.36.05 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07.38.06 Join JesusChrysler [0] (~JesusChry@c-68-83-138-211.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 07.38.12 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 07.46.19 Join L-Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-211-199.mcn.bellsouth.net) 07.55.14 Quit Scromple (Quit: Gone) 08.07.03 Quit [Saint] (Disconnected by services) 08.07.05 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 08.07.22 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 08.13.22 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 08.18.07 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830]) 08.18.18 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 08.20.18 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08.22.34 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@www.haxx.se) 08.22.35 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 08.22.35 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 08.24.15 Quit JoshuaChang (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.24.40 Join JoshuaChang [0] (~JoshuaCha@116.225.74.55) 08.24.40 Quit JesusChrysler (Quit: JesusChrysler) 08.32.09 Join Guest74085 [0] (~bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) 08.32.09 Quit Guest74085 (Changing host) 08.32.09 Join Guest74085 [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.32.16 Part Guest74085 08.32.19 Join Guest74085 [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.32.36 Nick Guest74085 is now known as Zagor (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.37.08 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@giant.haxx.se) 08.44.52 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.44.53 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 09.04.41 Join efyx [0] (~efyx@lap34-1-82-225-185-146.fbx.proxad.net) 09.08.05 Quit JoshuaChang (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.2pre/20110429182132]) 09.12.16 Join fyrestorm [0] (~nnscript@cpe-24-90-84-81.nyc.res.rr.com) 09.13.43 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.16.35 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.29.23 Join sasquatch [0] (~username@p4FF2DF0E.dip.t-dialin.net) 09.32.18 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 09.32.18 Quit sideral (Changing host) 09.32.18 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 09.32.44 Quit utanapischti (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 09.36.11 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 09.36.56 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 09.37.48 Quit Scromple (Quit: Gone) 09.46.26 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 09.46.39 Join wodz|work [0] (~5f303f8a@giant.haxx.se) 09.46.40 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 09.46.40 Quit sideral (Changing host) 09.46.40 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 09.48.06 # Regarding rockbox git mirror on github - I would preffer the mirror that is not under jurisdiction of US law. PSGroove case showed that it is not a wise idea to public reverse engineered code on US servers 09.52.51 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 09.56.41 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 09.57.04 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 09.57.04 Quit sideral (Changing host) 09.57.04 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 09.58.27 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 10.04.44 Nick gevaerts_ is now known as gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 10.23.00 # Zagor: Seems like I accidentally removed the assignment of FS#11297 to funman with my last edit of the task. I wanted to correct this, but I can't: funman isn't in Flyspray's list of developers anymore -- which is probably the reason why the deassignment happened in the first place 10.24.27 # wodz|work: Hmmm...that is an interesting point indeed. 10.25.17 # wodz|work: Perhaps that should be mentioned on the dev mailing list? 10.26.50 # with a DVCS everyone would have the full code though so we could have it served all over with no problem 10.27.16 # so if a US based server would stop serving it, it wouldn't really be a problem 10.27.32 # as long as one or more have it checked out 10.28.24 # I'm wondering if perhaps wodz|work doesn't mean to avoid the issue before it (potentially) happens. 10.29.21 # I honestly think it would be more of a good thing than a bad to us 10.29.33 # as it'd bring publicity 10.29.40 # Heh ;) 10.29.58 # as long as no US citizen in our project would be targeted 10.30.08 # then we'd be over-run by iPod Classic owners in a heartbeat :P 10.30.23 # and yes, that would be a concern. 10.31.15 # Seriously though, the *code* being on a US server and a developer being in the US aren't really related 10.31.19 # * n1s remembers the days of the early ipod ports 10.31.21 # urg 10.31.54 # They won't leave someone alone just because the git server he uses isn't in the US 10.32.51 # well, the previous encounters with legalese we've had have been all about the distribution 10.33.19 # for a while, the owner of rockbox.org was a US citizen and he got the letter 10.33.45 # when we fixed that issue, we got the letter in Sweden and it was much easier to dismiss 10.34.01 # * gevaerts nods 10.36.07 # That doesn't have to be an issue for something that's essentially a mirror though 10.36.17 # New commit by 03sideral (r29827): Better version reporting for git-tracked repositories: Include the git ... 10.36.27 # right 10.37.27 # we're also a very old and established project, I consider the risk of someone stepping forward waving their hands against us now to be very slim 10.38.32 # Perhaps we might gain a lot more attention when the Classic port ultimately takes off, as it will I'm sure. 10.38.35 # s/we're also a/we also tend to work on/ and s/established project/obsolete devices/ :) 10.38.43 # true 10.38.52 # well, not entirely. 10.39.06 # There's still at least one "brand new" target. 10.39.18 # do they still sell the clip+ new? 10.39.38 # Yes, but it seems to be on sale now 10.39.43 # sandisk are probably not going to sue us 10.39.53 # There's one real difference between us and things like psgroove though: we don't do anything with DRM, and we don't really help other people doing it 10.40.12 # r29827 build result: All green 10.40.30 # gevaerts: Well, that it true. 10.40.30 # gevaerts: in some cases we even knowingly break drm so it will never work on that device again :) 10.41.02 # I do wish that PSgrove wasn't associated with ROckbox at all...that's a pain in the ass. 10.41.16 # It's a good thing psgroove is irrelevant now pretty much. 10.42.14 # I mean, it's all very nice to say "This is for homebrew, not for piracy", and it may even be true for the people who did the original work, but if happens to allow piracy as a side effect, people will notice anyway 10.42.32 # * S_a_i_n_t nods. 10.42.40 Nick S_a_i_n_t is now known as [Saint] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 10.44.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.45.43 # <[Saint]> I couldn't give a rats ass either way about what who was using psgroove for, but the thing I hated was when it broke things and the "support" flowed over here. 10.46.13 # <[Saint]> all the "rockbox broke my "...and then having to explain "no, psgroove did, go bug them" 10.46.37 # [Saint]: no, *you* broke your dap! 10.47.02 # <[Saint]> Well, yes, good point ;) 10.49.12 Quit [Saint] (Quit: I'm only going to Heaven if it feels like Hell, I'm only going to Heaven if it tastes like caramel...) 10.57.20 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 11.02.13 Quit wodz|work (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) 11.14.56 # Bagder: we already push to our git mirror on svn commit commit (an intermediate git repo does the svn rebase), so a github mirror could just be added to the repo and then run git push --all 11.15.03 Join mem_ [0] (~mem@mem-irc.netnod.se) 11.16.30 # Unhelpful: I understand that buflib_buffer_out() moves *all 11.16.34 # hm that has to be done using ssh 11.17.11 # kugel: iirc it cuts some data "out" of the buffer. at the lower-address end. 11.17.25 # *all* allocations towards the end (e.g. |xxx|---------|t| becomes |--------|xxx|t| [x - allocations, t - handle table]), and the buffer front is returned? 11.21.11 # it also moves the buffer front, so that new allocations only happen with that |xxx|t| part 11.22.05 # and buflib_buffer_in() basically undoes this 11.22.44 Quit [Saint] (Quit: ...Leaving.) 11.23.14 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 11.27.44 # Bagder: is that a bad thing? 11.28.15 # well, it will basically require a key without password for the account that does the automated pushing 11.29.21 # just a bit of a nuisance I guess 11.30.35 # would that be safer within git-shell? 11.31.38 # Bagder: You'd seriously want to switch to git? 11.32.00 # yes, given the choice between svn and git I'll pick git any day 11.32.29 # meh 11.46.48 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 11.47.33 Join pamaury_ [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 11.47.59 Quit pamaury_ (Remote host closed the connection) 11.48.02 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 11.48.10 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 11.48.11 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 11.48.11 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 11.48.20 Quit n1s (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 11.48.30 # Bagder: will you look into the github mirror? 11.48.44 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 11.54.11 Quit n1s (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 11.54.23 # I'll see what I can do 11.54.37 # nice :) 11.55.08 Join ibhan [0] (~ibhan@195.41.77.232) 11.57.08 Quit mystica555 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11.59.57 # Bagder: what would also be nice is if we can get the svn branches into the mirror(s), IIRC sideral showed a way how to do it without breaking all clones 12.02.37 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.143.255) 12.02.37 # it worked on my machine 12.04.48 # btw, I'm not a strong proponent of a git switch, I'm largely fine with git-svn and the revision number thing is indeed a bummer. But I'm still happy if it should happen 12.08.34 Join mystica555 [0] (~mike@71-33-152-71.hlrn.qwest.net) 12.20.02 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12.22.33 Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@p57954323.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.22.49 # my current buflib work is now at https://github.com/kugel-/buflib/commits/master 12.24.45 Join u42p [0] (~v35b@d128089.adsl.hansenet.de) 12.25.54 # [Saint]: either my ears are just bad or meier crossfeed doesn't actually have an effect 12.26.25 # <[Saint]> It is a *very* subtle effect. 12.27.10 # <[Saint]> Some tracks you probably won't notice it on, it's good on tracks with a lot of quiet periods and a lot of left/right splits. 12.27.38 # <[Saint]> like, some classical music that's been newly mastered etc. 12.30.35 # I'm not into classical music :) 12.43.39 # [Saint]: the list item spacing takes dpi into account, so it should be about the same across devices 12.44.19 # dpi*4/11 12.44.34 # kugel: dpi isn't everything 12.44.58 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.45.06 # although I guess our devices are similar enough 12.45.28 # ignore that 12.45.44 # ok :) 12.47.18 # I still think it would make sense to be theme configurable because different spacing will be appropriate depending on which font is used 12.49.37 # and on a general note, it controls how the interface looks, so it makes sense, even if It's not for aesthetic reasons primarily 12.50.02 # rasher: I don't see that. the line spacing doesn't apply to the wps btw 12.50.41 # what donc't you seek? 12.51.03 # that the font size is relevant 12.51.12 # or the font generally 12.51.12 # <[Saint]> kugel: it's *way* too much spacing on 240x320 12.51.16 # <[Saint]> it looks terrible 12.51.19 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12.51.48 # [Saint]: I'd be interested in how large the lines are, in centimeter 12.52.15 # the resolution isn't really relevant 12.52.18 # <[Saint]> Most people would rather handle the list spacing through the fonts I thought 12.53.30 # <[Saint]> and, it's a bit hard for me to tell how high the lines are, it's been a while since I used it, I remember with a "sane" font size, the main menu didn't even fit on the screen. 12.53.57 # that doesn't surprise me 12.54.00 # <[Saint]> It was bad enough for me to uninstall it immediately, really. 12.54.01 Join DerPapst1 [0] (~Alexander@p579168CA.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.54.05 # I don't see why that matters 12.54.48 # <[Saint]> rasher: because you could look at it and see that it easily could fit on the screen, and there's a whole lot of "excess" space. 12.54.52 # scrolling is cheap on a touchscreen 12.54.59 # [Saint]: it would be nice if you could measure it for me 12.55.16 # It's not excess - it means you can hit it! 12.55.23 Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 12.55.34 # It's there for very good reason 12.55.36 # <[Saint]> I can hit it fine with a 22pt font 12.55.44 # <[Saint]> pixelma: uses 19 iirc 12.56.01 # <[Saint]> all this excess space isn't *needed* 12.56.35 # <[Saint]> that's why I'd like to see it configurable...I don't want the space to be less. I want to be able to switch it *off* if it goes in svn. 12.56.40 # maybe the calculation should take the physical font size into account 12.56.48 # <[Saint]> probably, yes. 12.58.06 # rasher: that's what it does, hence dpi 12.59.32 Join wodz|work [0] (~5f303f8a@giant.haxx.se) 13.00.25 # <[Saint]> Another reason it should be configurable is that a lot of themes rely on use of fonts with added ascent/descent, or split off the title from the lists, etc. 13.00.46 # <[Saint]> there's a whole bunch of stuff this could break with themes if it was forced. 13.02.12 # <[Saint]> a theme author says "hmm, right, so I'm using a 20pt font, I want three lines of text in this vp in the .sbs, so it's 60px high viewport" 13.02.21 # <[Saint]> ...what does he do with this patch applied? 13.02.50 # the spacing should be 43px on your device, considering that your display is a bit denser that the generalized dpi android provides (120 vs 143), it should be even smaller on your device than on mine 13.03.00 # if that's the case I can't understand it's too large for you 13.03.17 # <[Saint]> you can't see how 43px is too large? 13.03.23 # <[Saint]> 43px is insane! 13.03.30 # <[Saint]> I use a 22pt font... 13.03.51 # <[Saint]> and that's very readable, and very usuable for me. 13.03.58 # I use a 25px, with 58px item spacing and it's perfectly usable 13.04.22 # <[Saint]> Honestly, I *really* think this needs to be configurable. 13.04.40 # <[Saint]> if it can't be, then it should stay out until it can be. 13.06.20 # <[Saint]> also...if you really think about it, at 43px each list wil show like....what? 6 items max? 13.06.22 # the font size makes the items bigger if needed, so ascent/descent is not an argument 13.06.37 # 6 + the title 13.06.46 # one more on my screen 13.06.54 # <[Saint]> assuming you're using the default viewport. 13.07.30 # do you also hate android for having item spacing so much? 13.07.43 # it should be comparable, perhaps a bit less spacing in rockbox 13.07.58 Join factor [0] (~factor@r74-195-188-223.msk1cmtc01.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) 13.08.04 Quit liar (Remote host closed the connection) 13.08.22 # <[Saint]> it's quite a bit less in Android than it is with the patch applied in RaaA 13.08.32 # rasher: I guess the problem with the scrolling main menu is mainly that the scrollbar is so damn ugly :) 13.09.07 # [Saint]: I would welcome if you measure it so I can improve it 13.09.10 Join casainho [0] (~chatzilla@pal-213-228-181-14.netvisao.pt) 13.09.36 # <[Saint]> kugel: I'd welcome you making it congigurable too :) 13.09.44 # <[Saint]> *configurable 13.10.19 # no OS has an setting for this. if we need one we're doing it wrong 13.10.20 # <[Saint]> this is *not* something that should be forced, from a themeing perspective. 13.10.41 # <[Saint]> a themer should be able to do what he wants with the lists. 13.10.47 # <[Saint]> including turning this shit off. 13.11.11 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 13.12.17 # <[Saint]> This doesn't take custom themes into consideration at all. 13.12.46 # <[Saint]> and, Rb apparently prides itself on it's UI customization. 13.12.48 # kugel, Bagder: Yes, I found a noninvasive way of patching the existing Rockbox git config to seamlessly track all branches. Here's what I changed in my .git/config: http://pastebin.com/z2yW5nXf 13.12.48 # It would be great if the official Rockbox git mirror would have a similar change applied so that I could fetch the branches from it rather than from the SVN server 13.14.15 # Depending on how the git mirror is operated, this might be all that is required. For example, if the mirror simply is triggered to do a "git svn fetch" each time there's been an svn commit 13.14.25 # <[Saint]> I personally think the "right" way to handle this is to have more ability to customize the lists. 13.14.48 # <[Saint]> an additional VP param for list height. 13.15.30 # * [Saint] pokes JdGordon so he can look at this later, remember when we spoke about that? ^ 13.21.26 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Ex-Chat) 13.22.33 Quit casainho (Remote host closed the connection) 13.28.29 Quit user890104 () 13.29.28 Join slooopy [0] (~sloo@95-90-30-123-dynip.superkabel.de) 13.33.05 Join Peddy [0] (~apc@unaffiliated/peddy) 13.33.21 # is there a way to achieve fullscreen boot logos? 13.35.37 # what do you mean by that? the rockbox boot logo is fullscreen :) 13.37.16 # it isn't :) it has an offset which you need to fix up if replace the image 13.37.33 # but that, and a sufficiently large image does it 13.37.42 # Peddy: you need to compile from source for this 13.37.43 # oh? Heh. 13.37.44 # Imo list item spacing in its current form doesn't make much sense 13.38.21 # kugel, I'm already compiling from SVN. Are you saying that if I just replace the bootlogo image with a bigger one, it'll work? 13.38.24 # I rather think line spacing should be configurable independent of font size, or perhaps have an additional spacing (in pixels) 13.38.40 # This would then apply to *all* text, not just lists 13.39.00 # no, not all text 13.39.21 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 13.39.21 # Torne, it takes up about a quarter of my fuze screen (at the top), the rest is black with some version text at the bottom 13.39.42 # Peddy: you need to find where the offset is generated (it's like 8px or so) and remove that as well 13.40.02 # the black part above the image isn't part of it 13.40.06 # Why not? 13.40.22 # kugel, I'm okay with 8 pixels of version text - so as long as I replace the image with a full-resolution one (minus 8 pixels) it should work? 13.40.53 # <[Saint]> amiconn: it doesn't make much sense out of the context of the lists 13.40.57 # I don't know the exact offset. the offset is at the top. the version text is at the bottom and will be shown regardless of the image 13.41.14 # <[Saint]> since the other screens can be configured with the same effect with viewport placement 13.41.26 # amiconn: isn't the point to make sure things are big enough to hit with your finger 13.41.36 # <[Saint]> the liasts can't, but I do agree with your other points. 13.41.36 # amiconn: and thus it's irrelevant for things that aren't touch targets 13.41.47 # Peddy: won't the logo look horribly streched ? 13.41.52 # amiconn: what do you mean by "configurable independant of the font size" and "additional space in pixels"? my current patch is independant of the font size and adds empty space 13.42.09 # pamaury, no, I'll be using a custom one (some picture I made) 13.42.16 # <[Saint]> I agree that there should be an *optional* configurable param for list hight though. 13.42.22 # <[Saint]> *height 13.42.38 # <[Saint]> but I think this should be handled by the UI viewport vp declaration 13.43.00 # <[Saint]> not by some non-configurable "always on" setting :/ 13.43.02 # kugel, to clarify, I can just modify the appropriate bootlogo in apps/bitmaps/natives with a higher-resolution one and it should work? 13.43.14 # yes 13.43.20 # if you ignore the offset 13.43.40 # okay, thanks. the background of the new fullscreen logo will be black so it won't be apparent 13.43.40 # it needs to be full-width IIRC but the height isn't important 13.44.03 # I'm not even sure about full-width 13.44.18 # <[Saint]> no, it justifies left if it's not full width 13.44.49 # * [Saint] curses xchat spellcheck/autoreplace 13.45.38 # kugel: I mean that you can configure an additional line spacing (in pixels) for the user font (several when using multifont), which will then be used for all text output using that font 13.46.17 # This value should be part of the theme/ theme settings, nothing that's hardcoded in the core 13.46.31 # <[Saint]> that i agree with 13.46.40 # <[Saint]> but not for all text 13.46.46 # <[Saint]> just the lists 13.47.41 # <[Saint]> everything but the lists is configurable enough to not need it. 13.47.58 # amiconn: I want a default that works on most if not all devices, this cannot work with fixed pixels 13.48.08 # <[Saint]> the lists are our "themeing letdown" 13.49.04 # <[Saint]> kugel: sweet....so have it default off, or a different default per screen size. fixed. 13.49.28 # hardly "fixed" 13.49.58 # <[Saint]> better thanyour "forced, one size fits all" imo 13.50.15 # because it's not working properly yet 13.50.46 # <[Saint]> the way to do this is via themes, not the core. 13.51.05 # <[Saint]> this really hurts custom themes doing it your way. 13.51.24 # amiconn: with your setting the item height is still font size dependant isn't it? 13.52.47 # <[Saint]> I wouldn't think so...why should it be other than not allowing a minimum size lesser than the currently loaded font. 13.54.23 # <[Saint]> An additional viewport parameter seems the ideal way to do this IMO, this isn't something to be forced by the core. 13.55.04 # <[Saint]> if it's done with a vp param, then you could have multiple different list heights, allowing different effects. 13.55.14 # the line height isn't part of the internal viewport struct 13.55.25 # <[Saint]> no, it isn't, presently. 13.55.30 # <[Saint]> this could be changed. 13.55.39 # <[Saint]> JdGordon and I talked about this ages ago. 13.55.54 # <[Saint]> I believe this is the "DoItRight" version of this idea. 13.56.07 # viewports don't currently know the "line concept", and it's good that way 13.56.32 # <[Saint]> I couldn't be more passionate about believing this a: needs to be configurable, and b: should be handled by the theme, preferably a vp param 13.56.40 # hm, no, that's not entirely true, the line selector colors are part of the viewport struct 13.57.01 # I noticed that 13.58.47 Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 14.05.52 # kugel: Viewports *do* know the line concept - otherwise they could never display more than one line of text 14.05.59 # kugel: Why shouldn't the line concept be part of the viewport? Where else could it be stored? 14.06.03 # Atm it's just implicitly defined by the font height 14.06.52 # amiconn: what? they are defined by a rect, not n lines 14.09.49 # linuxstb: I guess if the line selector color is in there the minimum line height can be as well 14.11.10 # I'm not talking about how they're defined. Text output happens in viewports, and text output has a line conecpt 14.12.03 # kugel: I see it this way: the font is stored in the viewport struct, so so should the line height. 14.13.21 # you're probably right 14.14.05 # that could simplify my patch 14.17.07 Quit liar (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14.21.32 # thanks for your help kugel, I now have pretty fullscreen boot logos. Night! 14.21.35 Quit Peddy (Quit: Leaving) 14.21.50 # you're welcome 14.22.21 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 14.29.10 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 14.29.10 Quit sideral (Changing host) 14.29.10 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 14.31.27 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 14.32.02 Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info) 14.33.41 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.143.255) 14.38.06 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 14.45.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.56.31 Quit shai (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15.03.22 Quit wodz|work (Quit: CGI:IRC) 15.08.56 Part ibhan ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 15.09.05 Part LinusN 15.16.30 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Ex-Chat) 15.17.33 Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@87.180.200.170) 15.33.13 Part mem_ 15.33.20 # skin engine seems tricky to convert to buflib 15.33.49 # but the skin buffer seems replaceable with a static buffer 15.37.38 Join evilnick_B [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) 15.46.31 Quit Bagder (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15.46.56 Join Jerom1 [0] (~jerome@95.171.148.84) 15.50.33 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@www.haxx.se) 15.50.34 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 15.50.34 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 15.54.10 Join rdd [0] (~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se) 15.59.52 Join JesusFreak316 [0] (~JesusFrea@pool-173-65-83-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) 16.05.29 Quit [Saint] (Quit: ...Leaving.) 16.10.51 Join nerdy_kid [0] (~nerdy_kid@pool-71-174-117-203.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) 16.11.38 # I cant get my sansa e260v2 into either recovery or manufacture mode 16.12.21 # recovery and manufacturer mode are modes for the v1 16.12.53 # how do I get access to the system partition with the v2? 16.13.07 # I need to fix a screwed up boot loader 16.13.15 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) 16.13.36 # http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick 16.16.12 # gevaerts: I've tried that, rockbox just starts as normal 16.16.24 # ive tried it like half a dozen times at that 16.17.56 # All I know is that that's the procedure 16.18.28 # If it doesn't work, you're likely doing something wrong, but I've never done it myself so I can't tell you more 16.18.59 # dang, I didn't have to go through this to patch the bootloader in the first place, but I cant remember how I did it. 16.19.27 # I didn't think you did patch the bootloader - I thought the AMS install was to patch the main firmware? 16.19.52 # Can you start the Sansa firmware? 16.20.31 # yes, I can start the sansa firmware 16.21.11 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) 16.22.02 # What exactly is the problem you're trying to solve? 16.22.59 # when I connected the player to my pc, each time it would crash and show *PANIC* SD Xfer read err:0x8 Disk0 16.23.09 # that happened with both Windows and Ubuntu 16.23.52 # I used the sansa firmware to format the player, but it didn't help. 16.24.23 # Which rockbox version is this? 16.24.34 # it now seems to have decided to work to the point that I can read the device, but I am concerned that I cant get into recovery mode, I think I might have patched the wrong firmware or something 16.24.38 # 3.8.1 16.24.46 # I tried 3.8 with the same result 16.24.53 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 16.25.16 # cuesheet handling is also tricky (w.r.t. to buflib) 16.25.24 # Did rockbox ever work on it? 16.26.06 # I've used it for months, and the only trouble I've had is that the music partition got corrupted several times -- I had to use windows to do a fsck \F 16.26.35 # yes, I've used rockbox for months with no issues except the above 16.27.50 # * gevaerts doesn't know then 16.34.17 Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16.35.18 # I think you can only get into the recovery mode if the sansa firmware is broken... 16.35.58 # (but i could easily be wrong) 16.37.00 # gevaerts: did you see that I put up a git repo on github? 16.39.34 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 16.42.46 Join JesusChrysler [0] (~JesusChry@c-69-253-15-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 16.45.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.45.20 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.198.221) 16.55.32 # ok great, I fixed it. 16.58.38 Join mshathlonxp [0] (~roxor@5e037b20.bb.sky.com) 17.01.39 Quit balintx (Remote host closed the connection) 17.01.58 Join balintx [0] (~quassel@szerver1.gulyasp-koll.sulinet.hu) 17.05.55 Part Zagor 17.09.54 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 17.10.54 Part nerdy_kid 17.26.33 Join smk [0] (3d11c1dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.17.193.221) 17.28.26 Part smk 17.31.39 Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@5419A078.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) 17.45.26 Join bmbl [0] (~bmbl@unaffiliated/bmbl) 17.54.17 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) 17.56.20 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 18.01.48 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 18.22.09 # * pamaury has a bad time rewriting the synopsys usb driver to use PIO mode... 18.34.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p5DD577A6.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.34.22 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 18.34.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 18.38.14 Quit saratoga (Changing host) 18.38.14 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@rockbox/developer/saratoga) 18.43.51 Join lovasoa [0] (~lovasoa@2a01:e35:8a2e:8080:226:bbff:fe15:33b0) 18.45.05 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.50.09 # * bluebrother really likes to have _no_ additional spacing in the lists on Android 18.50.16 # gevaerts: the repo also contains my analysis about current buffer_alloc() calls 18.50.40 # bluebrother: huge font? 18.51.01 # kugel: no, default font. I still like it that way. 18.51.23 # it's nearly uncontrollable for me 18.51.28 # you need to be a bit more careful when selecting but it works. And I like it that way since it allows a lot of items on the screen 18.51.35 # have you actually used that list spacing patch? 18.51.55 # I have used an apk some time ago that seems to have had that. The spacing was ... huge. 18.52.35 Quit Topy44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.58.24 # <[Saint]> yay! I'm glad I'm not the only one. 18.58.24 # <[Saint]> the spacing is just too much...but, IMO *any* is too much. 18.58.43 # <[Saint]> However, I don't want to get into this again ;) We'll see what JdGordon has to say about making line height in the UI viewport/lists configurable. 18.59.01 # <[Saint]> (the "propper" fix IMO) 19.03.59 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 19.03.59 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 19.03.59 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 19.10.46 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3BC90.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.11.10 # kugel: I saw, yes. I haven't looked closely yet 19.12.13 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.19.57 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19.22.03 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3BC90.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.25.31 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 19.33.45 # <[Saint]> bluebrother: I noticed that there's a couple (or a few?) different versions of the "big rockbox" logo...can you explain why? Are you even aware of it? 19.34.14 # <[Saint]> I noticed sometimes the "b" in box is behind the "k" from Rock, and sometimes vice versa 19.35.16 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19.36.35 # <[Saint]> website logo Vs. bootloader logo for example 19.37.13 # <[Saint]> actually...some of the bootloader logos have the k in front, some behind as well. 19.39.25 # <[Saint]> so, perhaps when you add the source image in to svn, perhaps you could look at batch converting some bootloader splash logos also so we have some consistency? 19.40.18 # [Saint]: I don't know but it _might_ be related to some using the svg version as start, others the one on the website (which show exactly this difference) 19.40.57 # the problem with the svg logo is that it doesn't contain the grey texture on the "box" text 19.41.23 # I guess nobody noticed this difference when the svg was introduced 19.41.50 # <[Saint]> I noticed it the other day when I was "sprucing the logo up" 19.43.39 # so my proposal would be to make the svg logo the "original" logo and replace all bitmap versions with that (or a bitmapped version of the svg that is ;-) 19.44.47 # <[Saint]> Yep, I'm cool with that. 19.44.55 # <[Saint]> I'd just like them to be consistent. 19.45.37 Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 19.46.18 # yep. I guess I should commit the all-logo-svgs-in-one-place patch the next days. Discussing how to handle that is on the DevCon discussion list. 19.46.41 # since (afaics) the real original bitmap logo is the png in the manual folder which is (at least for me) broken 19.46.42 # <[Saint]> Ah, right. 19.46.58 # hence my vote for dropping the png and going for the svg 19.48.23 # <[Saint]> I just thought the bootsplash logo shouldn't differ from the website logo 19.48.47 # <[Saint]> I was kinds surprised when I found out it did, makes me wonder why the wheel was reinvented. 19.48.52 # <[Saint]> *kinda 19.49.45 # <[Saint]> (and the "box" looks better behind the "Rock" IMO anyways ;) 19.49.49 # <[Saint]> ) 19.51.58 # * bluebrother just found a 3rd variant: "box" in front of the "Rock" but with the grey texture 19.52.42 # hmm, we really have too much variants of the same logo around 19.52.50 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi) 20.15.48 Quit Topy44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.16.58 Join {phoenix} [0] (~dirk@p5DF2DCB8.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.18.05 Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) 20.20.23 Quit krazykit (Quit: ack ack ack ack ack) 20.45.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.46.41 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 20.49.25 # I drew the SVG from the png used in the manuals before which has the box in front of the k, didn't notice it was another version 20.58.45 Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B4C8AA.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.04.42 Quit T44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.10.02 Quit bmbl (Quit: Verlassend) 21.14.24 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 21.14.30 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection) 21.15.19 Join {phoenix} [0] (~dirk@p5DF2DCB8.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.16.05 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 21.18.16 Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21.27.44 Quit Stummi (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22.05.00 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: HIP-HOP sounds best when you listen to METAL instead.) 22.12.26 # maybe its time to update the AMSv2 bootloaders: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27926.0.html 22.12.41 # current SVN worked on that player, but not last summers release (prior to the recent SD fixes) 22.15.26 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 22.15.48 Quit merbanan (Remote host closed the connection) 22.17.29 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 22.30.25 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) 22.37.59 Quit froggyman (Quit: Ex-Chat) 22.38.27 Join froggyman [0] (~seth@98.115.0.7) 22.38.27 Quit froggyman (Changing host) 22.38.27 Join froggyman [0] (~seth@unaffiliated/froggyman) 22.45.07 Quit lovasoa (Quit: Quitte) 22.45.12 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.50.12 # I'd like to commit FS#11931 (Do a short rewind when playback is paused), which generalizes the existing rewind-on-headphone-unplug feature to allow a short rewind in all instances of pause and make fade in/out more consistent. Any concerns or encouragements? 22.53.24 # sideral: If I understand the description correctly - it makes all instances of pause follow a single setting of how far to rewind when unpaused, and makes all instances of pause respect the fade on stop/pause option, and that's it? 22.55.29 # right. one clarification though: the rewind occurs on pause, not on unpause 22.55.35 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust703.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 22.56.47 # sideral: Ah. I think it might be ideal to separate the bug-fixing from the new feature, but overall it sounds pretty good. 22.58.31 # Llorean: Yeah, I could make it 2 commits, but I guess that's not worth the trouble 22.58.56 Nick soap_ is now known as soap (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 23.02.57 # sideral: depends, if possible 2 commits are better but if it's too artificial I guess it's not worth it 23.03.29 # (although I have no opinion on the commit itself) 23.04.00 # sideral: (completely unrelated) I'm rewriting the AMSv2 usb driver to use PIO mode, we'll see if it's more stable 23.04.44 Quit bluebrother (Read error: Operation timed out) 23.04.46 # pamaury: I stand by my word that you'll be my hero when AMSv2 officially supports Rockbox USB :) 23.05.08 # Let me check how difficult it would be to divide the patch into 2 commits... 23.06.43 # Actually, I had a new idea about corruption although that seems crazy: the usb controller is a dma master and has configurable burst length. If the buffer size is not a multiple of the burst size and the controller is badly designed, it could write past the buffer 23.08.04 # that would match the failure I observed (and we discussed) recently, although I wasn't sure in the end whether I just forgot to set the buffer size IIRC 23.08.21 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@g224238086.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.08.21 Quit bluebrother (Changing host) 23.08.21 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 23.08.43 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.143.255) 23.10.32 # pamaury: BTW, I have verified that setting (1 << DEPTSIZ0_pkcnt_bitp) is not necessary to receive setup packets on EP0, but not setting it didn't fix my problem either 23.11.08 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) 23.11.36 # which is to be expected since corruption doesn't arise with control transfers 23.12.01 # perhaps the buffer size in DOEPTSIZ is not in bytes but in max bursts? 23.12.22 # no, the code I have proves it 23.12.51 # (and the few documents I have too) 23.13.07 # where did you say the corruption took place ? 23.15.13 # It was in the ep0_state variable, which is allocated directly behind the setup-packet buffer 23.15.54 # setup-packet doesn't really match, it's 8 bytes and aligned 23.16.27 # anyway, that's just a theory 23.18.28 # but I saw the "ignore spurious setup (xfersize=X)" warning. Doesn't that indicate that there was an unexpected payload? 23.19.40 # hum true, but when the dma points to the setup packet, the maximum xfer size is set to 8 23.20.53 # that's why I suspected an error in the logic there 23.21.39 # or the dma allows itself to transfer up to the maximum packet size but that would be weird 23.22.27 Quit efyx (Remote host closed the connection) 23.22.43 # Llorean, pamaury: turns out the pause-rewind patch is easy to split. I'll run my array of compilation tests to make sure 23.23.20 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23.24.13 # Cool, I think it would be best. 23.28.43 Quit evilnick_B (Quit: Page closed) 23.31.17 # pamaury: I tried enlarging the buffer allocated for setup packets to the size used for other transfers, but that did not fix the problem either 23.32.25 # fuck it, on one side the driver assume the register gives a byte count and the other side the doc I have says it a word count :( 23.32.35 # which one should I trust ?! 23.32.56 # roll a dice! =) 23.33.00 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049196070.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.34.59 # apparently the doc is the right, the linux patch gives a 2 vs 1 balance 23.35.14 # not sure that's much better than a dice though ;) 23.38.58 Join Chronon [0] (~quassel@c-71-236-138-156.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 23.39.16 Quit Rob2222 (Quit: Rob2222) 23.40.10 # Sound like you nailed it 23.40.52 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF22FA.dip.t-dialin.net) 23.43.38 Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23.46.20 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3A9CB.dip.t-dialin.net) 23.46.41 Join fxb [0] (~felixbrun@h230n1c1o1037.bredband.skanova.com) 23.57.51 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)