--- Log for 15.06.111 Server: card.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot_ Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 13 days and 22 hours ago 00.01.15 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.02.14 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 00.09.16 Quit wtachi (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00.12.21 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 00.14.53 Quit [Saint] (Client Quit) 00.17.38 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 00.20.34 Quit [Saint] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.22.24 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 00.22.54 Quit domonoky1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.23.20 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ) 00.33.21 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 00.44.36 Join z35 [0] (~z35@ool-18bdad71.dyn.optonline.net) 00.45.19 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00.46.54 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 01.03.08 Quit dan_a (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.19.00 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) 01.21.18 Quit MethoS- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.21.36 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 01.21.46 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Ex-Chat) 01.26.02 Join merbanan [0] (~banan@c-83-233-242-251.cust.bredband2.com) 01.30.18 Quit d3remark (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 01.47.37 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@149.254.186.248) 01.54.16 Quit stripwax (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02.01.16 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.05.29 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02.15.13 Quit GeekSh4dow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) 02.15.25 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-224-243.t-mobile.co.uk) 02.25.49 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02.28.06 Join Scromple_ [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) 02.30.58 Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02.32.16 Join Judas_PhD [0] (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) 02.34.03 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-219-248.t-mobile.co.uk) 02.49.58 Join fdinel [0] (~Miranda@modemcable036.124-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) 03.23.57 Quit ReimuHakurei (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03.24.09 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 03.26.02 Quit ReimuHakurei (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03.26.14 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 03.29.04 Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) 03.31.45 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@genld-219-243.t-mobile.co.uk) 03.39.32 Join hw30 [0] (~hq30@S0106001cf0c2472e.vc.shawcable.net) 03.40.38 # I read on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/FasterMDCT that "Get the MDCT working in Rockbox without distortion (DONE!)" 03.40.48 Quit Zarggg_ (Quit: Zarggg_) 03.40.53 # does anyone know where in the code this error was ? 03.41.25 # and if it was specific to ffmpeg's existing mdct 03.48.31 Part hw30 04.01.19 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.09.38 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message) 04.19.09 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 04.19.18 Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 04.28.46 Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 04.31.42 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 04.38.31 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.38.33 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.38.37 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.39.13 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.39.16 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.39.18 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.40.00 Quit bzed (*.net *.split) 04.40.08 Join bzed [0] (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) 05.06.42 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.07.32 Quit Scromple_ (Quit: Gone) 05.08.59 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@genld-218-243.t-mobile.co.uk) 05.18.50 Join saratoga [0] (98034408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.68.8) 05.40.31 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.42.50 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 05.49.36 Join Judas_PhD [0] (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) 05.55.57 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.139.169.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 05.56.10 Join Rob2223 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF16E8.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.57.23 Quit Barahir (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.59.05 Join Barahir [0] (~jonathan@fb08schindler24.anorg.chemie.uni-giessen.de) 05.59.38 Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 06.01.21 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.01.50 Quit fdinel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06.38.55 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message) 06.46.13 Join ReimuHakurei_ [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 06.46.14 Quit ReimuHakurei (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06.47.02 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) 06.49.06 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 06.50.59 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 06.50.59 Quit sideral (Changing host) 06.50.59 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 07.00.00 Join dan_a [0] (~dan_a@217.23.173.156) 07.02.34 Quit kugel_ (Remote host closed the connection) 07.02.40 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@g231104202.adsl.alicedsl.de) 07.02.40 Quit kugel (Changing host) 07.02.40 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 07.04.14 Quit dan_a (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07.06.42 Quit mystica555 (Read error: Operation timed out) 07.07.27 Quit Sundiver (Read error: Operation timed out) 07.08.22 Quit mystica555_ (Read error: Operation timed out) 07.09.32 Join Sundiver [0] (~angel@174.124.92.130) 07.09.32 Join mystica555_ [0] (~mike@71-208-223-57.hlrn.qwest.net) 07.11.06 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@70.71.25.68) 07.15.35 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 07.16.58 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106e0cb4efced71.vs.shawcable.net) 07.21.15 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 07.21.29 Join mystica555 [0] (~Mike@71-208-223-57.hlrn.qwest.net) 07.29.28 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 07.37.26 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@70.71.25.68) 07.41.33 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 07.41.41 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi) 07.41.42 Quit Stummi (Remote host closed the connection) 07.42.43 Join Judas_PhD [0] (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) 07.44.58 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@70.71.25.68) 07.49.13 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07.49.31 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@124-197-33-15.callplus.net.nz) 08.01.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.08.19 # scorche: ban Nong_mokmoon69 08.11.16 # done 08.13.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 08.13.16 Quit sideral (Changing host) 08.13.16 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 08.14.45 # JdGordon: could you clean out what the akismet plugin caught too while at it (there's at least one post with signature spam which got caught but one can still see it in "Recent Posts") 08.15.08 # done 08.15.33 # thanks 08.21.11 # current build page is now down entirely 08.22.46 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 08.23.26 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 08.23.26 Quit sideral (Changing host) 08.23.26 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 08.24.00 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@porpoise-248.dolphin-server.co.uk) 08.24.00 Quit GodEater_ (Client Quit) 08.24.09 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@porpoise-248.dolphin-server.co.uk) 08.24.09 Quit GodEater_ (Changing host) 08.24.10 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 08.29.21 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection) 08.29.21 Quit pixelma (Remote host closed the connection) 08.31.44 Join pixelma [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 08.31.44 Join amiconn [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 08.33.01 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 08.33.47 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 08.33.47 Quit sideral (Changing host) 08.33.47 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 08.38.56 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.40.07 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) 08.40.07 Quit Zagor (Changing host) 08.40.07 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.43.16 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) 08.43.43 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 08.43.43 Quit sideral (Changing host) 08.43.43 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 08.44.32 Quit Zagor (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08.47.06 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.54.18 # r30006 build result: All green 08.57.25 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection) 08.57.25 Quit pixelma (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08.57.50 Join pixelma [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 08.57.50 Join amiconn [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 09.00.01 # scorche: we cant ban non-english sigs can we? 09.02.14 # <[Saint]> Hmmmm...it *is* an English speaking forum... 09.03.40 # the spam sig is always Thai (i tinhk its thai anyway) 09.04.56 # <[Saint]> Oh, right...if it's spam, then I'd say by all means. I just thought you meant banning *any* non-English sig. 09.13.50 Join B4gder [0] (~daniel@giant.haxx.se) 09.13.50 Quit B4gder (Changing host) 09.13.50 Join B4gder [0] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 09.14.18 Quit Rob2223 (Quit: Rob2223) 09.16.12 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 09.20.03 # it sucks to have no builds when the release is around 09.20.28 Quit tchan (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09.21.20 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 09.21.45 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 09.21.45 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 09.21.45 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 09.21.51 Join dan_a [0] (~dan_a@217.23.173.156) 09.25.56 # * [Saint] wonders what these warning whilst building a voicefile are about: http://pastebin.com/nmzr0LRN 09.29.01 Quit sasquatch (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 09.29.26 Join sasquatch [0] (~username@p4FF2CFCA.dip.t-dialin.net) 09.29.49 # kugelp: relax. the release is not for another two weeks. plus you know I'm working to fix it. 09.31.19 # plus the build systems doesnt build the release :) 09.32.24 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 09.32.31 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.33.01 Quit ReimuHakurei_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09.33.27 # r30006 build result: All green 09.34.00 # It's about testing. after the freeze the current builds are not as useful because its open for normaldevelopment again 09.34.17 # but I'm chilling :-) 09.34.36 # <[Saint]> cia sure is dedicated to the 30006 build result. 09.37.12 Join efyx [0] (~efyx@lap34-1-82-225-185-146.fbx.proxad.net) 09.43.28 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.47.54 # Saint: That's because it's such a cool commit! 09.50.50 # rasher: any chance you could fix langtool to copy the dest string to the voice string on a specific LANG_ id please? 09.51.38 # or anyone else even :) 09.52.40 # * JdGordon wants to commit FS#12158 bigfix for release 09.52.50 # aww... no bluebroth3r-bot 09.54.40 # <[Saint]> (disclaimer: fix is not actually very big at all ;)) 10.01.26 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.01.30 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10.07.35 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message) 10.14.29 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10.15.42 # ahh, there we go. zips and deltas are back 10.16.35 Join d3remark [0] (~kramer@ip98-169-194-252.dc.dc.cox.net) 10.17.30 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-61-166-99.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 10.17.30 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 10.17.30 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 10.20.35 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 10.23.18 # cia repeating build results is due to me re-running build rounds 10.27.52 # hm, I somehow removed the cores= option in my build client. does it detect cores in that case? 10.30.10 # yes 10.30.24 # then I probably didn't have that option :) 10.30.30 # :-) 10.34.38 # Zagor: Thanks for bringing the infrastructure back up! 10.36.35 # * Zagor bows 10.37.11 # sideral: he's not a superhero for *nothing* :) 10.40.17 # Superhero? Right -- now go fix the Flyspray search by player type ;) 10.43.49 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@ppp-94-49.26-151.libero.it) 10.46.11 # BTW Zagor, I eventually would fancy trying to add that search type to our FS; I often miss it. Would you be willing to run such a modification, and is the current FS instance's source code available somewhere? 10.48.11 Join antil33t| [0] (~antil33t@124-197-33-15.callplus.net.nz) 10.48.12 # * [Saint] thought that FS was dead but just doesn't know it yet. 10.48.14 Quit antil33t (Disconnected by services) 10.48.22 # <[Saint]> (It's probably cruel to tell it ;)) 10.48.27 # it seems pretty dead as a project, yes 10.48.47 # sideral: sure, I'd be happy to get some flyspray improvements 10.51.40 # Saint: In case you're referring to our FS instance: I've seen in the logs some talk about deprecating FS for patches, but not for bugs. 10.53.05 # BTW, if we migrate patches elsewhere, I think that we shouldn't just delete (or even close or archive elsewhere) all existing patch tasks on FS. 10.53.10 # yes, we discussed that at devcon. the gerrit test is part of that. 10.53.32 # sideral: well we at least have to make them read-only 10.54.23 # At least all links into FS should stay intact, as well as the query capabilities 10.54.42 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 10.54.46 Quit dan_a (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10.55.41 # Also, FS has some features I find really useful when browsing patches (and bugs) that I'd want to see in any new system: Query by category, version, and status, for example 10.56.18 # sideral: that kinda goes against the general consensus, i think 10.56.30 # well, we don't want two systems for patches. we want a new system that does everything better. 10.56.32 # we don't want to ahve a huge repository of searchable stuff that nobody has finished and nobody is going to commit 10.56.46 # the point is to make the author responsible for pushing it forward, and if they don't then it dies 10.57.09 # having lots of ways to discover what patches exist is counterproductive there 10.57.27 Quit ruskie (Excess Flood) 10.57.36 Join ruskie [0] (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) 10.58.05 # I think having an archive of unapplied patches is very useful. For example, I run several patches that didn't make it into the tree. And I know many users and developers do as well. 10.58.35 # isn't that something we want to discourage? 10.58.44 # fragmentation sucks from a support POV 10.58.57 # I'd rather encourage it, to get more people interested in developing and submitting 10.59.08 # we don't support unofficial patches 10.59.18 # so we should we host them? 10.59.36 # Yes, I find FS very useful as a patch-hosting system 10.59.38 # why 10.59.49 # This is not a benefit! 10.59.57 # that's part of the reason FS is so useless right now ;) 10.59.58 # because it's a one-stop shop to see what's available. 11.00.06 # because a bunch of peopole are using it as a way to maintain stuff which will never go into the tree 11.00.14 # It's useful to them 11.00.23 # sideral: we specifically want to get away from having a pile of patches "on our desk" that are not going to get committed 11.00.25 # if it's not going into the tree then it's not useful to the project 11.00.29 # So why not accommodate it? 11.00.47 # I think it is useful to the project, if only as an inspiration. That's what it is to me, at least 11.01.27 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Ex-Chat) 11.01.30 # It's fine if there's a decision not to commit. But I think providing a way to maintain it anyway does no harm 11.01.30 # I can sort of see the point, but they should not be mixed with patches we work with 11.02.07 # OK, so either way: the patch review thing is for patch review 11.02.11 # it is not a way to find stuff 11.02.18 # If you want to find stuff, link to it from somewhere 11.02.23 # The fragmentation that would ensue if we close the central repo for patches is much worse than the current fragmentation methinks 11.02.36 # but it becomes a maintenance burden no matter how it's done. and I'd rather outsource that. 11.02.45 Quit ruskie (Excess Flood) 11.02.55 Join ruskie [0] (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) 11.02.57 # the thing most visible on gerrit is the patches you wrote, or the patches you have reviewed or been asked to review 11.03.01 # and that's fine 11.03.10 # It is possible to search for things by other criteria, but it's not aimed at that use case 11.03.42 # Not being ably to query patches by category / player / version / status seems like a regression to the status quo to me. 11.03.59 # Does Gerrit have a mechanism to tag patches, possibly in a structured way? 11.04.12 # no 11.04.19 # it's a *patch review system* 11.04.40 # Then it does strictly less than what FS does today ==> regression 11.04.40 # it is for doing code reviews. it hosts patches purely so you have something to review. 11.05.03 # yes. 11.05.06 # This is the point :) 11.05.19 # the consensus at devcon is we *do not want to do* the use case you have in mind. at all, with any tool. 11.05.26 # sideral: this whole debate was started by me and bagder because we want to get away from the "X hundred patches" list. we only want patches that are currently considered. 11.05.30 # Why can't we have that system (which I find useful) in addition to FS? 11.05.51 # if there are two places then it's extremely difficult to work out what the current state of something is 11.06.13 # In which way is the patch repo a maintenance burden? 11.06.58 # There's no need to look at the pile daily and feel bad about it :) 11.07.00 # it is full of crap to the point that virtually all developers ignore it completely 11.07.06 # I mean doing a new repo for "unofficial" patches 11.07.13 # would be a burden 11.07.39 # if people want to maintain changes to rockbox there are lots of ways to do that, and once we switch to git it will be even easier 11.07.47 # they can fork it onto github 11.07.48 # or whatever. 11.08.00 # since we plan to keep using FS for bugs, having unofficial patches there would be confusing 11.08.06 # i was going to see about having gerrit push a mirror of our tree to github specifically so that people can do that quickly :) 11.08.06 Quit ruskie (Excess Flood) 11.08.11 # Torne: That's not consistent with my use of the tracker, and with what I observe other devs do. People frequently reference old FS tasks when stuff comes up 11.08.28 # sideral: and the fact that those are old is *a serious failing* 11.08.39 # if they are still worth referencing when they are old then they should have been committed already :) 11.08.51 # stuff that's old should either be in the tree or uninteresting 11.08.54 # Torne: I disagree. It's a benefit that those are still available 11.09.12 # sure, you can disagree 11.09.12 # Github fork -> fragmentation -> bad 11.09.17 # but so far you are in a minority of one 11.09.26 # Torne: I'm used to that :) 11.09.47 # It's not the same if it's *somewhere else*. 11.09.52 # I don't see the benefit of cutting off one's history 11.09.52 # People expect to get support with things they got from "us" 11.10.01 # where "us" includes everything on flyspray 11.10.09 # No, they don't 11.10.12 # Yes they do 11.10.18 # People ask questions about patched builds all the time 11.10.37 Join ruskie [0] (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) 11.10.58 # Maybe. But there you see: people run patches builds, because patches are useful to them 11.11.59 # * sideral needs to go offline for some time. Thanks for the discussion so far! Later... 11.12.20 # people do lots of things, and i don't go out of my way to help them do most of it ;) 11.13.03 # i think the way fs works encourages people to post unfinished stuff which is usefull for getting comments on stuff you are working on but also leavs a lot of unmaintained half finished crap 11.13.12 Quit ruskie (Excess Flood) 11.13.42 # will posting a half finished patch for comments be on the ML or in gerrit? 11.13.51 # gerrit 11.13.57 # yes, I think the fact that we have a repo of crap is a minor problem. the real problem is that the "hot" patches are drowning in the crap. 11.16.36 Join ruskie [0] (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) 11.19.51 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@2001:638:504:20e0:221:70ff:fe83:655e) 11.20.54 # Zagor: it's kidna encouraged by being treated the same as bugs 11.21.09 # since people submit bugs and generally expect that we will try and deal with them, which is not unreasonable 11.21.20 # I agree 11.21.26 # but they aslo submit patches that implement new features that we've not even discussed, let alone agree that we *want* 11.21.35 # and they also expect those to be dealt with 11.22.04 # yes, the follow through of non committer devs is usually rather low 11.22.06 # moving to a seperate thing, regardless of the specific features of the new tool, gives us an opportunity to draw a line and declare "if you upload stuff here then pushing it forward is your job, not ours" 11.22.23 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11.22.28 # yeah, that is good i think 11.22.31 # these are not feature-requests-with-patches-attached, they are code reviews 11.22.48 # if you want to convince us the feature is valuable you have to talk to us; the code review thing is for us to critique your C :) 11.23.31 # only we'll be more insulting 11.23.36 # obviously ;-) 11.23.37 # haha 11.24.16 # maybe we should adapt linus torvalds style. "anyone who wants this feature has brain damage!" 11.24.26 # hehe 11.24.41 # but yeah, i think it's a not unreasonable argument against caring too much about discoverability 11.25.10 # you *can* search gerrit, it understands status, what branch things are aimed at, a topic branch name if it was uploaded with one, current review status, etc 11.25.16 # and it searches descriptions/titles 11.25.49 # but having tags for what players, features, etc is kinda.. meh 11.26.15 # * sideral is back 11.26.24 # (you can also create watchlists which notify you when reviews are uploaded that touch certain files/directories/branches, so you have the opportunity to step in on something that changes code you are well acquainted with and say "no you're doing it wrong") :) 11.26.46 # i can see myself watching firmware/drivers/ata.c ;) 11.27.16 # so if having a repo of crap and distinguishing it from patches sent for review should be possible? 11.27.26 # i hope this system will make people more inclined to review patches and it sounds like it just might do that 11.27.37 # n1s: i think so 11.27.47 # you can see the patch without downloading it, with full-file context 11.28.15 # and you can tell which version is current, and see comments that apply specifically to that version, not ones that are addressed already 11.28.16 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207-144-19-39.cstel.net) 11.28.17 # that is very nice 11.28.35 # that makes it a lot quicker to just drop by and comment on a bit in one file, even if you don't care much about the patch as a whole 11.28.38 # :) 11.29.22 # is there an easy way to download the patch for testing or do i still need to get the patch file and apply it? 11.29.30 # n1s: it's a ref in the git repository 11.29.36 # gerrit gives you several choices of command to copypaste to apply it locally 11.29.43 # cool 11.29.46 # you can check it out, cherrypick it, pull to it 11.29.57 # (and this works anonymously also so people do not need gerrit/ssh accounts to do that) 11.30.24 # * n1s still needs to read up on the git terms as those three methods mean nothing to him :) 11.30.32 # Can't we just say, introduce / discuss / host your patch on FS if you want, but if you want it committed, go to gerrit? That would also allow people to retract to FS for more discussion if their patch is rejected in gerrit 11.31.12 # n1s: cherry-pick is usually the one you want: it's functionally equivalent to downloading a diff and applying it 11.31.25 # except it handles conflict resolution using the full git merge algorithm so it's more likely to work 11.31.40 # ok, sounds nice 11.31.55 # sideral: I don't want every patch discussion in two places. the forum is probably better for such "light talk" 11.32.02 # Zagor: or the mailing list 11.32.12 # We already have several palces people can talk about stuff, wehther it's worth it, etc 11.32.23 # start a forum thread, or mailing list thread, with a link to your code review in gerrit 11.32.43 # if it's not getting any traction 11.32.46 # or come on IRC and bug people. 11.34.04 # sideral: FS is just a bad way to store and discuss patches, at all, whether you intend to commit them or not 11.34.30 # Other than the diffstat output it treats patches like any other arbitrary blob attachment 11.34.37 # I agree it could be better. I just don't want to lose its query features 11.34.40 # you can't point at lines in the patch, you can't even tellw hich version of the patch is which 11.35.04 # you can't even view the patch directly without downloading it in most browsers because it sets content-disposition on the attachment link ;) 11.35.41 # sideral: seems we have quite opposing views. we explicitly want to remove the patch graveyeard. you explicitly want to keep it :-) 11.36.09 # yah, there is not really a compromise between those two 11.36.35 # Zagor: It's not so very opposing I think. Let's establish some common ground: 11.36.46 # I think having a patch-review system is good 11.37.13 # <[Saint]> moral: we > you ;) 11.37.23 # haha 11.37.29 # <[Saint]> (that's "the royal we", btw) 11.37.51 # Would you agree with keeping at least a R/O queriable FS instance intact so that URLs pointing into it won't get invalid? 11.38.17 # we're not currently planning to get rid of flyspray.. 11.38.26 # since we're not going to use another bug tracker (at this point) 11.38.37 # the most we are likely to do is at some point, mass close all patches 11.38.44 # or maybe only ones that haven't been commented on for a while 11.38.55 # how do you plan to deal with patches in response to bug reports? host on FS or link from FS to gerrit? 11.39.32 # if you have a patch that fixes a bug, whether you are the bug reporter or not, upload the patch to gerrit for review and put a link in the bug thread 11.39.33 # a bug report with a patch is a patch, in my view 11.39.58 # a bug report is a report about a bug with no known (or at lest no done) fix 11.40.11 # I think we've established that gerrit cannot double as an issue tracker right now 11.40.27 # absolutely. we don't want gerrit for bugs. 11.40.33 # gerrit is strictly for patches 11.40.49 # OK 11.40.57 # the term "patch" is getting somewhat overloaded i think 11.42.12 # I'd like us to not close patches on FS unless we'd close them under the status quo (e.g., no interest for > 1yr) or they've been migrated to gerrit 11.42.29 # what benefit does that give you? 11.42.39 # closing them doesn't delete them 11.42.44 # you can still find them 11.43.01 # I don't lose track of their status. Overwriting the status with "closed" puts them into the rejected pile 11.43.18 # what's wrong with going closed, out of date, if you are still interested in having this committed upload a proposed change to gerrit and invite comment somewhere 11.43.49 # sideral: yes 11.44.16 # The people who are watching the FS# entry will get notified it's been closed 11.44.17 # My major problem with these changes is that there's no structured way to query what's already available. 11.44.29 # If none of those people care enough to try and push it forward then it's dead. 11.44.38 # sideral: define "available"? 11.44.52 # Zagor: as in, people have been working on this area before 11.45.08 # sideral: you are thinking of "patches" as "things that someone can download and apply to their tree to make it behave differently". a delicious buffet of things to try. 11.45.24 # For example, I draw huge inspiration from 3–4 year old database patches that are still around in FS 11.45.28 # We are thinking of "patches" as "proposed changes to trunk which should ideally be accepted or rejected as quickly as possible" 11.45.43 # a queue of stuff to get through, that should be minimised. ;) 11.45.52 # sideral: how are they any less available when closed? 11.46.13 # Torne: sometimes you don't have developers that can look at the proposals for several years, as has been the case with the DB 11.46.32 # nobody is proposing *deleting* anything here 11.46.40 # for reference, gerrit reviews which are abandoned are also not deleted 11.46.41 # Zagor: when they're closed, it's hard to distinguish them from done and already rejected stuff 11.46.50 # sideral: should we hope that in a few years someone comes by and looks at old patches? 11.47.05 # no, we should encourage the authors to get it committed at the time of posting 11.47.11 # kugel: Haven't you hoped that I would come and salvage the DB? ;) 11.47.21 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11.47.25 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@206.183.185.8) 11.47.31 # yes, but not because of the patches on FS 11.47.31 # sideral: and you would be prevented from doing that how? 11.47.38 # kugel: That's not always possible, I'm afraid 11.48.03 # sideral: I think we can add a close reason "flyspray abandoned" or something, to help you distinguish 11.48.11 # sideral: then the patch is not suitable and we shouldn't be concerned with it any further 11.48.29 # Torne, Zagor: I'd hate to lose any metadata about proposed changes. Having to way to query for status / category is a regression to the status quo 11.48.44 # you keep saying "status" 11.48.51 # of course gerrit knows what status something is in 11.48.57 # sideral: I strongly disagree. the current system is a tar pit. 11.49.04 # there are three: open, merged, abandoned 11.49.06 # patches are dumped into it, and never seen again 11.49.30 # we want to vastly speed up the review process in order to get more things accepted, and developers encouraged 11.49.45 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF16E8.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.49.45 # Zagor: That you don't know. As I said, I do look at old stuff for my area of expertise 11.50.05 # saidly you're the only one doing this 11.50.11 # and we also want to move the initiative from us to the developer. distrubuting the work scales better. 11.50.32 # even committers tend to dump patches on FS and never look at it again 11.50.39 # sideral: old stuff is not going to disappear. it will stay in your mailbox for as long as you want. 11.50.43 # I understand these motivations, and they are good. 11.50.46 # sideral: I fail to understand the difference between "open" stuff so old it has mould growing on it, and "closed" stuff in the same state. 11.51.31 # But I don't like abandoning stuff quickly with no way of querying it 11.52.10 # sideral: sort your mails 11.52.15 # and I strongly disagree that we should have a patch graveyard for the convinience of people that don't want to make it into mainline (i.e. forks) 11.52.22 # Torne: I understand that gerrit keeps a status. But you agreed that there's no way to query by category, for example. Or player type, version, ... 11.52.35 # sideral: that stuff is useless noise in virtually every patch in FS 11.52.42 # It's marginally less useless in bugs 11.52.47 # but largely those fields are unspecified or wrong 11.52.49 # Zagor: That's precisely what we have an issue tracker for. My mailbox is no replacement 11.53.07 # yes it is. it moves the responsibility from us to you. 11.53.17 # This was all discussed and decided at devcon I thought 11.53.18 # Torne: Not true for at least "Database", "Bookmarks" 11.53.23 # sideral: Yes it is 11.53.49 # also, if you are interested in changes that affect the database, gerrit can notify you about anything that touches tagcache.c 11.53.51 # sideral: are you sure you didn't overlook a couple of db patches that are not tagged with database? ;) 11.53.58 # you don['t need to rely on tags manually added 11.54.00 # AlexP: Are you suggesting I should shut up and not voice my concern? 11.54.02 # you can *see what files things change* 11.54.19 # sideral: No, just that it would have been better if you had done it during the discussion 11.54.38 # Also, that you need to argue really well to change the decision :) 11.54.41 # we made the discussion at devcon public for a reason 11.55.15 # AlexP: Apologies for not having been available at that time 11.55.18 # Of course I'm not saying you can't expound your view :) 11.55.25 # kugel: Yes, I am :) 11.55.27 # well, to be fair it wasn't announced that we were going to discuss the patch process 11.55.35 # No indeed 11.55.36 # it was a spontaneous topic 11.55.42 # I'm not blaiming him 11.55.50 # blaming either 11.55.58 # Just saying it is a pity :) 11.56.01 # well, I brought it up because the option of gerrit affects how we do the git migration ;) 11.56.04 # but yeah. 11.56.27 # btw, re the actual migration, people are still slowly coming by and filling in email addresses after I spammed all the people who hadn't ;) 11.56.36 # so that's good 11.56.50 Join pacovila [0] (~pacovila@84.79.151.4) 11.56.52 # sideral: I didn't mean to suggest you shouldn't comment at all 11.59.24 # I think I understand you guys' view better now. And you now know I like FS's query and archiving capabilities, and its potential to allow people to host / maintain Rockbox-related patches with no way of having them committed ever. 12.01.28 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.01.55 # BTW, I use several patches posted there by Rockbox developers (gevaerts, JdGordon, bertrik and myself) on my player -- stuff that they just haven't polished up or don't intend to commit, but I find useful nontheless 12.02.14 # Then you should prod those people to do something with them 12.02.16 # or do it yourself. 12.02.19 # FS is not the right place for stuff not intended to be committed 12.02.28 # The fact that you are continuing to use those patches without doing anything to get them in the tree is *bad* 12.02.38 # No, it isn't. :) 12.02.41 # especially since you have the power to do what you like, really, as you are a committer 12.02.49 # I don't think anywhere on the rockbox.org domain is the right place for stuff never intended to be committed. 12.03.02 # agreed 12.03.02 # My time is limited, and I prioritize stuff 12.03.27 # Here I disagree with GodEater and kugel. 12.03.28 # sideral: It doesn't take much time to send a quick email to prod someone about it 12.03.36 # people forget stuff 12.03.36 Quit antil33t| () 12.04.15 # And people's time is limited. Often they cannot invest the time right now to complete the config / manual changes to to enter the flame wars about including a feature right now. 12.04.28 # Often it's just the best thing at the moment to leave stuff simmering in FS. 12.05.13 # yes, often it can't get committed right now 12.05.20 # but that doesn't mean you should just be happy with that state 12.05.29 # sideral: a few days or weeks is ok, but not several *years* 12.05.40 # it's still bad that you are having to use a patch 12.05.51 # i'm nto saying you must resolve it immediately :) 12.06.17 # My Rockbox TODO file counts 37 projects, not including small one-offs. Lots of stuff won't be completed in a year, but I may want to put it up on FS / whereever anyway for other people to use / comment on 12.06.44 # I'm not saying I'm happy about it :) 12.08.06 # I'm just accepting reality 12.09.04 # so, in the future you can point people to your external git repo for stuff you don't complete in the near future 12.09.19 # fragmentation => bad 12.09.34 # no 12.09.47 # people running different things and believing it's "close enough" is bad 12.09.47 # patches on FS is the same fragmentation. it's just worse because it's not as visible 12.10.08 # It's bad because it makes it hard to discover interesting stuff, for example 12.10.09 # you're running a patched build, as are several people. that *is* fragementation, just not as obvious 12.10.09 # people being able to run their own version of something is open source :) 12.10.40 # a github mirror should make things easy to discover, at least other forks 12.11.14 # * sideral thanks you guys for your comments and time. Need to hurry to lunch now. Later! 12.15.05 Join cpu98 [0] (de6c422f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.222.108.66.47) 12.15.15 Quit Keripo (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12.24.38 Quit swilde (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 13.24.23 # sideral: The policy has always been that flyspray is only for stuff intended to get committed 13.24.41 # We shut things not intended to go in if we notice 13.25.22 # Or have done in the past :) 13.28.31 # AlexP: I think Rockbox has way too many policies for such a small project. ;) 13.29.04 # small? 13.29.07 # and again, you're in a minority 13.29.18 # we have 130-odd committers 13.29.24 # that puts us well, well above the median 13.29.52 # and 30000 revisions, and 183MB of code 13.29.56 # these are all well above average :) 13.31.19 # sideral: we need policies or all this evolves into an unnavigatable mess 13.31.34 # * sideral hints at the smiley 13.32.41 # imagine if everyone would post their "custom build patch" to fs... 13.32.50 # I don't intend to get involved with the politics too much, being a relatively "young" committer 13.33.57 # <[Saint]> you need to know them, though, so when stuff like this happens you're not the only one asking why it is. 13.34.25 # n1s: I'm not concerned about that too much. What gets committed is what defines Rockbox. Accommodating patches locally is just a healthy way of preventing fragmentation in my view 13.34.36 # this is not about politics imo, in every group you have to have some rules, otherwise it's chaos 13.34.59 # How does hosting the patches prevent fragmentation? 13.35.21 # sideral: you're just wrong - having a load of patches that never get commited in one place doesn't make it any more fragmented than having them littered all over the internet. 13.35.21 # Generally in projects it's *healthier* for there to be an actual fork somewhere else, than for a large proportion of users to build custom builds with different patches 13.35.25 # Torne: Its a detriment to some unhappy group forking the project 13.35.30 # Forking is fine! 13.35.36 # forking is how these things are supposed to work 13.35.50 # if a group of people object to our direction so much they are going to fork the whole project for it then *that's okay* 13.35.56 # that is not fragmentation 13.36.02 # that's the point of open source! 13.36.17 # users all having a slightly differnet build with slightly different patches: that is fragmentation 13.36.22 # it doesnt' matter where those patches came from 13.36.42 # Torne: But that's the reality -- partly because Rockbox is reluctant to accept new features 13.37.02 # I don't think rockbox is reluctant to accept new features 13.37.05 # It's not the reality tot he degree you think 13.37.21 # The users who have lots of patches are very likely to be active on forums/flyspray/etc 13.37.29 # the users who just use our builds are much less likely to be *communicative* 13.37.36 # but they still exist :) 13.38.05 # and yeah, i am not at all convinced we are reluctant to accept new features 13.38.28 # at devcon we basically agreed that the reality was that DAPs are largely dying and our future is probably as a playback engine used by native UIs on mobile/etc devices ;) 13.38.36 # <[Saint]> I'd actually like an example of that personally. I can't particularly think of one myself. 13.38.36 # We're just reluctant to spend time on them if they were written by other people :) 13.38.41 # if we can stomach that then new features is not a big deal 13.38.45 # I'd say we are *slow* to accept patches, which is one of the reasons we want a better patch system 13.39.06 # indeed 13.39.19 # I hope you're right :) 13.39.34 # i think we are also not always great at explaining what's wrong with a patch without giving people the impression that the entire concept of the feature is bad 13.39.57 # I think our acceptance speed in the past has bee due to the extremely limited resources our targets had - we REALLY wanted to make sure the feature was optimised to the nth level and was REALLY worth it. 13.40.06 # It struck me yesterday that our possible future as a library may give reason to think some more about our licensing 13.40.09 # but it doesn't help that people who send one-time patches have a tendency to just throw us something fully-formed and complete which they want committed as-is 13.40.13 # if we're moving away from those limited platforms, we can choose to be a lot less picky 13.40.20 # which they haven't actually discussed with anyone beforehand 13.40.34 # so when we tell them "oh we can't take it like this it adds eleven million options" or whatever, they give up 13.41.04 # if they had involved us earlier in *their* development process (e.g. by posting in-progress work to a code review system, or a git branch, or similar) then we could've guided their direction towards something acceptable 13.41.23 # GodEater_: the platform shift also will likely include more forks 13.41.25 # Zagor: possibly 13.41.38 # Zagor: i was imagining that we would also be writing at least some of the apps using the library 13.42.10 # yes, but I imagine if/when we have a good library other people are going to want to do their take of what a music player should be 13.42.13 # anyone want to help me? HZ delay... is HZ 1 sec? 13.42.20 # cpu98: yes 13.42.24 # thanks!!! 13.42.30 # Zagor: oh, sure. 13.42.48 # Zagor: but then we need to exert what pressure we can on those people to not just patch rockbox to suit their app 13.42.55 # and to instead contribute back to us to make the library fit more needs 13.43.01 # yup 13.43.23 # I think mainly there will be forks of the UI and not so much the lib 13.43.23 # so from that POV I would say our current license is good :) 13.44.00 # the point of open source development is also to contribute back your changes, if possible 13.44.12 # Zagor: if the library has enough functionality then the UI might be light enough that it's not worth really forking it :) 13.44.14 # <[Saint]> forks of the UI? really? 13.44.36 # Anyway, I believe hosting any diversity ourselves, and making it as accessible (queriable) as possible, is good for the overall health of the project, as it allows developers to learn from history. That's the way I use FS, and that I'd hate to lose. 13.44.46 # [Saint]: virtually all "controversial" feature discussions are about UI 13.44.56 # Torne: but UI is 90% of the experience for many people. and *everyone* has an opinion about it. 13.45.07 # Zagor: no, i mean: rather than forking it they would just write one 13.45.12 # right 13.45.59 # yeah, you'd have to be a real masochist to fork ours ;) 13.46.01 # sideral: but we're also trying to learn from history here, and history teaches us that the current approach results in 90% of patches rotting 13.46.05 # sideral: I don't think flyspray is a good description of our history 13.46.13 # whether they are good or not 13.46.14 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust703.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 13.46.31 # <[Saint]> the UI can already be completely re-implemented in a theme...however *completely* re-doing it (my hacky way) will overflow almost any skin RAM except the applications. iiuc JD is making "the right way" for themers to juggle the UI presently. 13.46.46 # [Saint]: That's not the kind of UI we were considering here at all 13.46.54 # [Saint]: We were talking more about: using 100% native android UI widgets ;) 13.46.56 # <[Saint]> (not really important, just a side not that I think UI forking might be lessened by that if it gets in) 13.47.04 # which would probably remove theming entirely 13.47.04 # sideral: I think we've pointed out now numerous times we're NOT DELETING FS - we're just closing patches in rot hell - so you're losing nothing 13.47.09 # or at least make it superficial :) 13.47.20 # [Saint]: I mean full rewrite, from scratch. "MyFirstMusicPlayer" that just uses the rockplay lib 13.47.42 # <[Saint]> Aha, right. Gotcha. 13.47.43 # yah. the library handles playback, codecs, metadata parsing, finding album art, whatever 13.47.56 # GodEater: I do understand that. But for new patches, there will be no FS, no? 13.47.56 # you literally just have to write some way to create/choose playlists/tracks and you have a UI 13.48.08 # that's why we need to be agreat library and a great UI :) 13.48.09 # and any other features in the UI are up to you :) 13.48.14 # sideral: no, because the majority opinion is that FS for patches is shit :) 13.48.43 # GodEater_: the problem is that sideral seems to think that patches in FS are actually discoverable 13.48.46 # * sideral has his own statistics, and his own majority opinion, in his private cell 13.49.01 # and so objects to the fact that gerrit doesn't have categories or tags or affected-players 13.49.15 # because then he won't be able to discover patches he's interested in 13.49.17 # <[Saint]> Torne: Zagor: Right, yeah. I get you know. I thought you were addressing the many "I want the menus ordered thusly/why is foo/bar/baz in the menu? they're useless" minions. 13.49.19 # old, dead ones 13.49.31 # <[Saint]> *s/you know/you now/ 13.49.39 # [Saint]: no, we're more talking about fixing the fact that there are 200 music players on the android market and they all play like crap ;) 13.49.44 # Torne: Thanks for rephrasing it that way. That's largely accurate 13.50.00 # people want 200 different UIs but they don't want gapless to be badly implemented or to have no replaygain or to not support some codecs :) 13.50.22 # the android media framework is not sufficient to make a good music player :) 13.50.37 # so maybe we can fill that gap pretty well. 13.50.44 # and maybe for other OSes as well. 13.51.12 # Torne: a new UI would be cool - esp. if we can use it to pull music from google music (or other cloud source of your choice) but pump the bits through our playback enginer. 13.51.12 # sideral: right. so the disagreement here is kinda twofold: I don't think patches in FS actually *are* discoverable, and I also don't think that that's useful very much 13.51.38 # the majority of the metadata on the majority of FS# entries I am watching is either missing or bullshit 13.51.44 # wrong categories, wrong players, etc 13.51.52 # Torne: then go fix it :) 13.51.56 # part of that is FS's fault (not being able to select multiple players) 13.52.03 # sideral: he is - by ditching FS 13.52.04 # so some of those things *can't* easily be fixed 13.52.13 # well no, i'm not fixing it 13.52.18 # GodEater: :) 13.52.23 # * GodEater_ was being flippant 13.52.27 # I am looking at what it would take to fix it, versus how much use it would be even if it was fixed, and deciding it's not worth fixing 13.52.38 # even if that data was perfect all the time, I still would have very little use for it 13.52.50 # Given that in reality it will be crappy a lot of the time *even if* the tool handles it better, it's even less useful 13.53.07 # Torne: Aren't you interested in bugs/patches related to stuff you've done, bookmarks, say? 13.53.18 # sideral: yes 13.53.23 # I can find those by searching fot eh word "bookmark" 13.53.29 # or by looking for changes to apps/bookmark.c 13.53.38 # and that will give me about a 95% hit rate with no metadata required 13.53.38 # :) 13.54.04 # I like that the corresponding query for the Database category on FS has 100% accuracy 13.54.14 # If an issue isn't found by that simple search then it's probably also not categorised correctly either 13.54.19 # I care about that data :) 13.54.29 # sideral: does it really? 13.54.33 # I somehow doubt that 13.54.39 # have you tried finding all the database related patches by searching for the word database, and for patches that touch tagcache.c? 13.54.45 # because i bet that works just as well 13.54.45 # gevaerts: Yes. I went through the history and fixed it :) 13.54.56 # Torne: yes 13.54.57 # (note: you can't actually do the latter in flyspray) 13.55.06 # so, your yes is a lie. 13.55.21 # because there's basically no way tod o that currently :) 13.55.29 # unless you have a local copy of every flyspray attachment ;) 13.55.39 # Torne: Google did that for me ;) 13.55.47 # Oh, duh 13.55.51 # pardon me :) 13.56.04 # yah, google doesn't really index the patches but it indexes the diffstats of them 13.56.07 # so that works. 13.56.24 # ok, so how was that compared to things that were *already* tagged database before you changed them? 13.56.39 # how many things didn't come up on those searches that you subsequently found by another method that was more work? 13.56.51 # becqause unless that number is large you are proving my point :) 13.56.58 # I would have missed about 20 % either way (only looking at category, or only looking at search results) 13.57.19 # because of miscategorization / misspellings / alternate spellings 13.57.19 # ok, so i wouldnt' consider that worth it 13.57.30 # 80% of them is enough work to be getting on with kthx :) 13.57.42 # * sideral happily disagrees with Torne again :) 13.57.44 # * Torne goes for luuuunch 13.57.58 # Enjoy! 14.00.24 # * sideral is sad to see that FS-based retrospection doesn't work for you guys 14.01.30 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.01.48 # sideral: I lack your proposal on how we should improve the patch situation, you seem to be mostly happy with it as it is 14.02.14 # <[Saint]> I think it does, people have looked at FS currently, and thought"in retrospect...this system sucks balls" ;) 14.02.47 # <[Saint]> "I wish we could do it better...oh, wait, we can" 14.03.01 # B4gder: My proposal is to keep FS alive for patch hosting, and to have try the patch-review system in parallel, as it isn't even trying to be a replacement for an issue tracker 14.03.17 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@70.71.25.68) 14.03.20 # sideral: with only you left caring about FS? 14.03.40 # the net effect will be that FS is for storing old cruft 14.03.53 # B4gder: me and those who'd like to host/discuss a patch that isn't ready for commit 14.04.10 # Of course the patch review system isn't trying to be an issue tracker. Patches are not issues! 14.04.11 # and then you need to do it again when submitted to gerrit? 14.04.32 # gevaerts: Full ack. So why replace one with the other? 14.04.41 # sideral: why can't gerrit be used for a patch that isn't ready to commit? 14.04.42 Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14.05.00 # sideral: we *have* a tracker for issues, a.k.a. bugs, and that's not going to go away 14.05.05 # <[Saint]> I don't think *anyone* has mentioned dropping FS for bug reports, have they? 14.05.13 # gevaerts: I don't know, that's what was repeatedly said in this conversation by others 14.05.14 # <[Saint]> ah, yes...what gevaerts said. 14.05.53 # <[Saint]> sideral: No, it hasn't. It's been encouraged to do so. 14.05.55 # sideral: we have agreed to keep FS for bugs, not patches 14.06.04 # gevaerts: I do understand that. But undecided patches that need more work are issues as well, and are worth archiving and making queriable 14.06.08 # but sure, a bug report could include a patch 14.06.11 Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick) 14.06.12 # <[Saint]> so that people get a chance to comment earlier in 's development. 14.06.13 # why are they issues? 14.06.36 # sideral: please don't use the word "issues". we have patches, and we have bug reports. that's all. 14.06.41 # and why do we need FS to discuss issues? why not just discuss on the dev list? 14.07.16 # * B4gder pulls out his mail argument again 14.07.25 # Zagor: FS is an issue tracker. It archives conversations about [whatever] in a structured and queriable way. Bugs benefit from this structure, as do proposed changes (patches) 14.07.50 # sideral: it's absolutely not structured discussion - there's no threading! 14.07.56 # sideral: FS is what we make it. we use it for bug reports and patches. in the future only for bug reports. 14.08.00 # mail is infinitely preferable to that 14.08.26 # introducing the term "issues" only adds confusion 14.08.29 # Zagor: I don't see a counterargument to mine 14.08.58 # sideral: almost nobody thinks the current patch situation on FS is good 14.09.02 # GodEater: Mailing-list archives aren't queriable like that. There's a reason why people have invented issue trackers. 14.09.11 # and we think the work flow needs to change to fix this 14.09.13 # ahhrg 14.09.31 # sideral: aren't queryable like what? 14.09.34 # Zagor: Sorry :) 14.09.35 # "Flyspray is an uncomplicated, web-based bug tracking system" 14.09.42 # http://flyspray.org/ 14.10.08 # it's designed to be a bug tracker. not a patch manager. 14.10.09 # GodEater: Like a bug tracker. Ever seen that huge search mask? 14.10.10 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14.10.26 # I also fail to see why someone working on a patch cannot submit it to gerrit whatever state it's in? 14.10.27 # if flyspray had (much) better mail integration, it could've worked better at this 14.10.29 # Imo, the current problem of FS for patches is that two distincts things are getting merged: 1) the technical discussion about the patch itself 2) the non-technical discussion about the feature itself 14.11.02 # sideral: I really have no idea what you're referring to 14.11.07 # pamaury: and that assumes it even attracts the interested people in the first place 14.11.58 # I'm not saying FS cannot be improved upon. But I fail to see what's hard to understand about me liking to sift through old / proposed stuff with a structured query? 14.12.01 # I have long since given up following patches on flyspray. I only look at things raised in the mailing list. I don't think I am alone in this. 14.12.22 # sideral: it's only structured after you've manually gone through and fixed it 14.12.42 # <[Saint]> sideral: You'll still be able to, no? it'll still be there. 14.12.47 # are you volunteering for the post of Flyspray janitor? :) 14.12.54 # and the way we work with patches in FS allows patches to sit and rot too much 14.13.07 # Saint: Not for new patches once we close FS for patches 14.13.33 # <[Saint]> right, but you specifically said *old* stuff. 14.13.36 # that's because we don't want patches to rot in the future. we want them to be discussed, refined and committed or rejected. 14.13.38 # <[Saint]> this won't change that. 14.13.51 # And the other point I wanted to make: I like that there's one place to go for patches, and not many. 14.14.09 # sideral: careful. that's an argument for closing FS :-) 14.14.20 # <[Saint]> there still will be only one place to go for patches. close FS, use gerrit. ;) 14.15.03 # Zagor: At least I can structure it. That seems to be impossible with gerrit 14.15.29 # that's because ideally there will be nothing to structure. patches are temporary works in progress. not mantle pieces. 14.16.05 # 334 open patches is an embarrassment and a failure 14.16.20 # <[Saint]> it certainly *looks* that way. 14.16.29 # Zagor: I think quickly rejecting stuff just because no one does the last 10 % (config, docs) right now is a bad idea 14.16.48 # Zagor: I disagree. It's a treasure 14.16.57 # there's two places for patches. we still accept them on the ML 14.17.12 # sideral: why would we not reject it? it can't go in. we'll accept it as soon as it's done. 14.17.19 # Zagor: it was 400 at the devcon 14.17.24 # everything is rejected until it is committed 14.17.32 # I closed like 20 pre-2008 patches 14.17.47 # Zagor: because it might be useful to other people for their private use, as are so many of the existing patches in FS 14.17.59 # flyspray is not the world's work-in-progress directory 14.18.01 # to it's worth keeping or even forward porting from time to time 14.18.02 # Then those people can host them! 14.18.24 # gevaerts: And them being discoverable in a central place is a big plus too 14.18.35 # it's not 14.18.51 # it encourages "dumping and forgetting" 14.18.52 # sideral: making that easy makes it less likely people will finish them imo 14.19.09 # I'm not saying they all have to host this stuff separately. As far as I can see rockbox-patches.org is available 14.19.14 # sideral: if someone bothered to do the 90% other, doing the last 10% shouldn't be too hard; config and docs *are* important 14.19.42 # pamaury: You know about that 80–20 rule, don't you? :) 14.20.18 # gevaerts: I only see Rockbox removing existing support for central patch hosting, and I don't like that 14.20.37 # and I like that 14.20.50 # Most of us see that as a huge step forwards 14.20.52 # kugel: And I don't. :) 14.20.59 # "central patch hosting" sounds nicer that what it actually is 14.21.13 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 14.21.14 # then than an even stronger argument against your example; if you let the hardest 20% part to other people just because you don't want to do it, what's the point ? 14.21.52 # pamaury: The point is that apparently many people find patches useful despite their lack of polish 14.22.05 # if it's polish, it's not hard 14.22.10 # * evilnick takes issue with "many" there 14.22.21 # pamaury: Yes it is. 14.22.36 # polish is supposed to be a pretty hard language to learn actually 14.22.47 # evilnick: It wasn't me who postulated that people with patched builds frequently are a problem 14.22.47 # ^^ 14.23.41 # sideral: I'm just thinking that as a % of the users, the ones running patched builds would be pretty small 14.24.10 # evilnick: Then why is it a problem to keep our repo of patches alive? 14.24.31 # because they're not OURS 14.24.33 # If it's not causing any problem? :^) 14.24.36 # they're someone elses 14.25.07 # sideral: it's causing problems 14.25.24 # * evilnick ducks back out of the discussion :) 14.25.33 # the most apparent one is that patches sit there instead of being worked on and pushed into svn 14.26.01 # <[Saint]> I can, and do, host my patches elsewhere...as, I know they won't get commited. the ones I *have* put in to be commited (and have been committed) I put on FS. I don't see why it's a problem to ask people to host their shit in their own backyard so to speak. 14.26.35 # kugel: I sincerely hope that patch review will reduce the number of patches that aren't completed (although I somehow doubt it). But if that's the case, there won't be as much rot in FS any more, no? 14.27.06 # Saint: Which of my arguments for hosting them centrally didn't make any sense? 14.27.11 # we still don't want to host patches which aren't going into svn 14.27.40 # as they're obviously not meant for svn, we shouldn't be concerned or even associated with them 14.28.03 # we aren't, if they're not commited 14.28.28 # we expressly deny support for patched builds 14.28.30 # we are since they are on rockbox.org, in the same places where bug reports legitimately go to 14.30.00 # Alright guys, I think all arguments have been exchanged and we're running in circles now. 14.30.25 # Thanks to everyone who took the time to chime in and explain their view! 14.49.05 Quit ps-auxw (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14.50.39 Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123) 15.17.33 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15.19.05 Quit cpu98 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15.43.07 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) 15.44.15 Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 16.01.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.02.35 Join krazykit [0] (~krazykit@206.183.182.189) 16.02.48 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 16.08.23 # Is USB-mode on Sansa AMS v2 models still disabled? 16.08.23 Join swilde [0] (~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org) 16.20.13 # <[Saint]> Yes 16.20.40 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16.20.57 Quit Topy44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.31.06 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose) 16.41.31 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@ppp-94-49.26-151.libero.it) 16.54.59 Quit B4gder (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16.58.23 Quit ReimuHakurei (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16.59.44 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@cpe-174-111-021-024.triad.res.rr.com) 16.59.45 Quit sinthetek (Changing host) 16.59.45 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek) 17.01.55 Join kramer3d__ [0] (~kramer@ip98-169-188-142.dc.dc.cox.net) 17.03.06 Quit d3remark (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.04.52 Join cpu98 [0] (de6c422f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.222.108.66.47) 17.05.11 # http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/rockbox2.png/ 17.05.11 # great news for ipod video 17.05.48 # cpu98: hm? 17.06.05 # i'm working on a driver 17.07.46 # sideral: which of my old patches are you runnning? 17.09.02 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@g226069119.adsl.alicedsl.de) 17.09.02 Quit bluebrother (Changing host) 17.09.02 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 17.09.11 # * gevaerts had similar wonderings :) 17.09.11 Quit GeekShadow (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.09.19 # I bet he's running the loopback image patch 17.09.34 Join GeekShad0w [0] (~Antoine@ree79-1-78-237-225-34.fbx.proxad.net) 17.09.37 # cpu98: looks great! 17.10.37 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.10.41 Part Zagor 17.11.46 # gevaerts: that is such an awesome feature that you should finish it! 17.12.57 Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 17.13.38 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106e0cb4efced71.vs.shawcable.net) 17.14.58 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Leaving) 17.15.11 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 17.17.37 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 17.18.27 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17.19.21 Quit cpu98 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17.19.40 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) 17.19.43 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17.21.35 Join keyb_gr [0] (~chatzilla@p4FF03069.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.21.44 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.21.59 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 17.23.13 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 17.29.34 Join mshathlonxp [0] (~athlonmpp@5ad7b04e.bb.sky.com) 17.33.08 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@208.119.81.194) 17.33.08 Nick S_a_i_n_t is now known as [Saint] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 17.37.41 # cpu98: (for the logs) you need to do those tests with a pair of headphones or at least a resistor attached 17.48.33 Quit mudd1 (Remote host closed the connection) 17.58.12 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 17.58.31 Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.58.43 Nick shai_ is now known as shai (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 17.59.06 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 18.01.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.08.10 Join mrkiko [0] (~mrkiko@host146-18-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 18.08.45 # Hi all!!! :D:D:D A simple question - is iPod nano 3g supported ? I think it's not, but I'm not certain due to the website formatting 18.09.39 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) 18.09.54 # <[Saint]> No, it isn't. And, what formatting? rockbox.org clearly shows ports in three states. supported, unstable, and unsupported. 18.10.29 # [Saint]: thank you! 18.11.06 # <[Saint]> whoops, I messed that up. Stable, unstale, and unsupported. 18.11.19 # I looked in the wiki 18.11.20 # <[Saint]> regardless, the Nano3G isn't in any of the categories. 18.11.30 # <[Saint]> *unstable 18.12.06 # [Saint]: oh ... I tried using it with the standard firmware - but still, it's one of the less accessible DAPs :D 18.12.48 # <[Saint]> hahahah! let's try again. *ahem* Stable, Unstable, and Unusable. 18.12.57 # * [Saint] is messing up his terminology tonight. 18.16.43 # [Saint]: I would like a DAP with lots of space (even an hdd one), supported by rockbox, again in production. :D:D:D 18.16.57 # <[Saint]> Get a Classic then. 18.16.59 # is there one ? i was an h3xx user 18.17.03 # ok 18.18.02 # <[Saint]> the Classic is the only DAP that meets your requirements. (depending on what "lots of space" actually means) 18.19.03 # Except it's not actually supported decently by rockbox yet 18.19.25 # <[Saint]> It works well enough for everyday use. 18.19.39 # <[Saint]> but, there are gaps that need filling, certainly. 18.21.16 Part mrkiko 18.29.13 # * [Saint] wonders why Unusable ports isn't formatted thusly on the main page: http://pastebin.com/mGZaY9Eu 18.29.35 # <[Saint]> the current formatting either is ordered in some way I don't see a pattern in, or, not at all. 18.30.31 # <[Saint]> the other categories appear to be ordered alphabetically by manufacturer. 18.31.10 # to make clear they second class citizen :) 18.31.32 # kugel: *third*! 18.31.45 Quit JesusChrysler (Quit: JesusChrysler) 18.32.44 # gevaerts: correct, since unstable ports are links while stables are not! 18.33.25 # <[Saint]> that was going to be my second point re: formatting ;) 18.36.28 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) 18.38.21 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 18.40.20 Quit [Saint] (Client Quit) 18.45.17 Join TioBorracho [0] (~dguzik@200.41.238.50) 18.45.32 # hi! 18.46.35 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 18.51.15 Join ReimuHakurei_ [0] (~reimu@208.119.81.194) 18.51.15 Quit ReimuHakurei (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.51.34 Join JesusChrysler [0] (~JesusChry@c-69-253-15-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 18.51.52 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@g228131139.adsl.alicedsl.de) 18.54.12 # I hope someone can help me 18.54.21 # I have an old ipod nan 1gn 2 GB 18.54.23 # rockboxed 18.54.29 # I worked fine for a long time 18.54.42 # but suddenly it couldn 't read the partition 18.55.33 # I booted in disk mode, checked with badblocks and found several bad blocks in the data partition. It had bad blocks before data section so I couldn't reformat. I repartitioned it skiping some sectors and everythins was ok 18.55.34 # almost 18.55.47 # It boots and works ok while attached to the PC or a charger 18.56.08 # but If i start it with no connection it just shows the apple screen and turns off immediately 18.56.13 # any ideas? 19.03.08 # The space before the data partition is the firmware partition.. 19.07.22 # I mean 19.07.29 # the firmware partition is present 19.07.46 # If I run badblocks on that partition I get no errors 19.08.02 # but if I try to formt the second partition I get this error from mkfs 19.08.26 # mkfs.vfat: bad blocks before data-area: cannot make fs 19.09.13 # it sounds like you may have more bad blocks, anyway :) 19.09.28 # badblocks is not a very good test, especially on flash devices, because it doesn't actually write by default 19.09.40 # badblocks -w would be better but will destroy all the data 19.09.43 # including the firmware partition 19.12.38 # no prob with that 19.12.45 # data is already f*cked up 19.13.57 # what is strange to me is that while plugged it starts ok 19.14.08 # but as soon as I unplug it it shuts down 19.14.28 # could it be related to badblocks or something else? 19.16.10 Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201) 19.19.08 Quit t0rc (Client Quit) 19.23.05 Quit ReimuHakurei_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19.31.22 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 19.39.34 Join Xerion_ [0] (~xerion@5419A766.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) 19.40.33 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) 19.40.51 Quit Xerion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.40.51 Nick Xerion_ is now known as Xerion (~xerion@5419A766.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) 19.56.02 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p5DD57310.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.56.02 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 19.56.02 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 19.56.34 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 19.56.34 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 19.56.34 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 19.57.04 Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.57.40 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 19.57.47 Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.58.42 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 20.01.07 Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.01.33 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 20.01.38 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.04.09 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 20.08.48 Join toffe82 [0] (~chatzilla@maf.wirelesstcp.net) 20.12.59 Quit GeekShad0w (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20.13.06 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@213.165.85.248) 20.13.06 Quit sideral (Changing host) 20.13.06 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 20.15.40 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 20.35.26 Join GeekShad0w [0] (~Antoine@ree79-1-78-237-225-34.fbx.proxad.net) 20.42.17 Part martii 20.49.39 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Restart) 20.54.19 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-224-242.t-mobile.co.uk) 21.00.19 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21.03.40 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-218-248.t-mobile.co.uk) 21.04.23 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 21.05.32 Join wtachi [0] (~wtachi@65.190.12.236) 21.08.30 Join ReimuHakurei_ [0] (~reimu@74.112.212.15) 21.11.21 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g226069119.adsl.alicedsl.de) 21.12.22 Quit ReimuHakurei (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21.15.07 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 21.15.50 Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) 21.17.31 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21.18.42 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.60.34) 21.27.27 Part TioBorracho 21.32.22 Join robin0800_ [0] (~robin0800@149.254.61.158) 21.32.39 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21.36.47 Quit markun (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.37.36 Quit robin0800_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21.40.54 Join markun [0] (~markun@ip503cd9a5.speed.planet.nl) 21.41.13 # !sync 21.41.13 Quit Xerrao (Excess Flood) 21.41.53 # JdGordon: the bot wasn't missing this morning -- I forgot making it act on ACTION events as well. Should be fixed now :) 21.43.20 Join Xerrao [0] (~XRO@synergy.serv.xdk2.net) 22.01.39 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.08.23 Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22.13.05 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 22.25.54 Join domonoky1 [0] (~Domonoky@agsb-4d04948f.pool.mediaWays.net) 22.26.43 Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 22.34.22 Quit CIA-58 () 22.36.46 Join CIA-17 [0] (~CIA@cia.atheme.org) 22.39.19 # AlexP: ping 22.39.27 # yo 22.39.57 # I've pushed a script to spellcheck the manual to gerrit (guess that's the first thing on gerrit intended to go in at some point ;-) 22.39.59 Join keyb_gr [0] (~chatzilla@p4FF037C7.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.40.03 # wanna have a look? 22.40.22 # heh, sure :) 22.40.36 # pamaury: Have you tested your AMSv2 USB drivers with multiple different hosts? 22.40.43 # I've added you as reviewer :) 22.40.59 # now to figure how to push an updated patch -- that one has whitespace errors 22.42.02 # heh, that was easy :) 22.42.03 Part toffe82 22.43.07 # Now I need to work out how to grab it :) 22.44.15 # hmm. I've added an inline comment but it shows up as draft. Is there any button to make that final I haven't found yet? 22.44.57 # bluebrother: yes, the review buttons 22.45.20 Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) 22.45.47 # the gerrit interface isnt' beginner friendly it seems 22.45.53 # ah. 22.46.20 # the interface is a bit you-need-to-get-used-to 22.47.02 # yeah i suppose 22.47.09 Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22.47.34 # the view all buttons are dangerous too :) 22.47.45 # since we decided to move to git it would be a good idea for people to wrap commit messages at column 80 or so 22.47.52 # um diff all 22.48.01 # bluebrother: 72 I'd say 22.48.15 # Bagder: fair enough. 22.48.20 # n1s: perfectly harmless here :) 22.48.22 # so "git log" still looks fine in 80 column terminals 22.48.42 # gevaerts: :) 22.48.43 # and the first line should preferably be < ~55 or so 22.49.02 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 22.52.28 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) 22.57.18 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted") 23.02.03 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 23.04.26 # sideral: no, I only have my computer 23.05.16 # pamaury: perhaps I should rather send you a couple of PCs? :) 23.06.14 Quit GeekShad0w (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23.06.58 # yeah, perhaps I should find another host to test it 23.20.23 # pamaury: I think that would be the logical next step 23.30.27 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-219-239.t-mobile.co.uk) 23.32.29 Part domonoky1 23.37.39 Quit fs-bluebot (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish.) 23.37.59 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g226069119.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.41.25 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 23.42.15 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23.43.46 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@g231233152.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.43.46 Quit kugel (Changing host) 23.43.46 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 23.44.33 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@genld-224-239.t-mobile.co.uk) 23.46.23 # * sideral is very fond of his new Clip+ keymap 23.46.24 Quit fs-bluebot (Remote host closed the connection) 23.46.44 Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection timed out) 23.47.20 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 23.47.20 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 23.47.20 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 23.48.06 # Finally a sensible place for the soft lock, a hotkey, a consistent way to toggle between menu and WPS, and keymap consistency between WPS and FM radio screen :) 23.48.15 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g226069119.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.48.37 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 23.51.08 # sideral, what, where? 23.51.25 # bertrik: Clip+ 23.51.37 Quit fs-bluebot (Remote host closed the connection) 23.52.03 # in my private tree :) 23.52.27 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g226069119.adsl.alicedsl.de) 23.52.29 # anything that caught your eye? 23.52.35 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/123 3Player: one-touch volume (feature, closed) 23.52.54 # urgh, wrong response target. 23.52.57 Quit bertrik (Read error: Operation timed out) 23.53.07 # * bluebrother needs to fix that. 23.53.45 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 23.53.45 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 23.53.45 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 23.53.56 # I wouldn't mind a more sensible clip+ keymap 23.55.21 # bertrik: I hear changing it in SVN involves politics, and I've had enough of that for today. :) But I'd be very open to your input! 23.56.44 # sideral, can I get your keymap somehow? 23.56.49 # Would you like me to describe my rationale, or rather have a look at the code directly? 23.57.23 # please describe it first 23.58.07 # About the code: I thought of uploading it to FS#11605 as an alternative solution, or opening a new task for it 23.58.07 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11605 3Clip+ new keymap (patches, unconfirmed) 23.58.29 # Just a sec, I'll outline it for you 23.58.48 # I couldn't care less about the quickscreen, but would like an easy go-to-WPS key (e.g. HOME for switching to the WPS and back), and something like long-HOME for lock