--- Log for 31.08.111 Server: zelazny.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 4 days and 7 hours ago 00.00.12 # so what features not present in 1.6 are you making use of now? 00.00.32 # <[Saint]> The compatibility code needed to run ancient Android versions no one cares about (in the greater scheme of things) make developing for the more recent Android versions a huge pain in the ass. 00.01.03 # <[Saint]> SOlution, don't care about 1.6 00.01.17 # * gevaerts will let those people who actually do the work explain, since they're more likely to actually get things right 00.01.27 Quit preglow (Changing host) 00.01.27 Join preglow [0] (thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow) 00.01.35 # so if i am to understand your disdain for android, would it be considered correct that 'android is not as backwards compatible as windows has been' ? 00.01.48 # ie, code for lowest common denominator no longer works? 00.02.02 # lowest common denominator was bumped apparently 00.02.16 # Code for the lowest common denominator will work. It just won't work as well as code that assumes a more recent version 00.02.38 # and again i ask what code is assuming a newer version to work nicer? gui widgets? powersave? audio out? 00.02.58 # * B4gder has no idea, but lets the guys who do the code do the code 00.03.29 # im just trying to figure out what changed so horribly much to make my nice old android phone stop taking builds of rockbox. heh 00.03.39 # <[Saint]> Progress ;) 00.03.44 # why would it be "horribly much" ? 00.03.46 # details! 00.03.49 # I bet it only takes a few tiny bytes 00.04.00 # B4gder: some api change is horrible enough 00.05.56 # mystica555_: doesn't say why it was changed: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=30293 00.05.58 # <[Saint]> rasher's daily builds *just* so happen to be on r30292 now, this is the lastest build you can use until (highyl unlikely) someone that wants it, ans is able to, decides that compatibility for these older devices is worth putting time and effort in that the current maintainer is not. 00.06.00 # you could ask kugel 00.06.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.08.26 # the 1.6 support was broken before 30293 IIRC 00.08.39 # I just happened to notice it then and made it explicit 00.09.01 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@99-133-145-177.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) 00.09.15 # mystica555_: the C code runs fine on 1.6. but the java parts need some compatibility stuff 00.09.47 # if you provide a patch to reenable 1.6 support it might go in 00.09.49 # ok.. so what exactly is the last build that works fine on 1.6? 00.10.01 # or 'as fine as it ever did' 00.10.05 # assuming always bugs 00.10.25 # however I'm not willing to support code for 1% of the android users which nobody of us developers can test 00.10.36 # mystica555_: "I just happened to notice it" implies that we don't know exactly when it got broken 00.10.44 # It's likely nobody knows, since if someone developed and tested on a 1.6 device then it would probably still work :) 00.10.51 # heh 00.11.11 # realize that 1.6 is dead and upgrade :) 00.11.28 # i realize that no version past 1.6 has worked on the g1 without a lot of headaches 00.11.28 # heh 00.11.33 # <[Saint]> Given you're the first one who actually cares its broken, I assume the assumption that our 1.6 userbase is very, very small is correct ;) 00.11.48 # <[Saint]> it's like 1~2% of the entire Android market. 00.11.52 # mystica555_: I heard CM6 worked fine on it 00.12.02 # fine does not imply enough memory to run things properly 00.12.12 # 1.5 on 1.3%, 1.6 on 2.0% 00.12.25 # so yeah, requiring 2.1 supports 96.4% of android devices 00.12.30 # <[Saint]> Hmmm, 1.5....lol 00.12.42 # <[Saint]> what's that, like...microwaves and fridges? ;) 00.12.56 # and certain older archos tablets that nobody officially upgraded yet 00.13.05 # still got a friend in chicago who won't hack his tablet and still runs archaic stuff on it 00.13.34 # so please provide a patch if you can actually verify 1.6 support 00.13.38 # we can't 00.13.57 # for fridges, i'd figure you'd need at leat 2.2 to keep the yogurt cool enough... 00.14.13 # *least 00.14.19 # () 00.15.56 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) 00.16.17 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.17.15 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00.22.30 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-207-45.26-151.libero.it) 00.23.08 # kugel: awesome work! 00.23.49 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@119.224.108.127) 00.28.15 Quit ReimuHakurei (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 00.30.52 Quit ender` (Quit: The Web is a procrastination apparatus: It can absorb as much time as is required to ensure that you won't get any real work done.) 00.32.13 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 00.41.54 Quit TheLemonMan (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 00.47.36 DEBUG EOF from server (Connection reset by peer) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545) 00.47.36 *** Cleanup 00.47.36 *** Cleanup 00.47.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.47.36 *** Exit 00.47.38 *** Started 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evildaemon [0] (~john@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net) 01.05.16 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 01.05.16 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@108.60.198.57) 01.05.16 Join Elfish [0] (amba@2a01:4f8:100:90a1:abc:abc:abc:abc) 01.05.16 Join Staphylo [0] (staphylo@hyperion.epimeros.org) 01.05.16 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 01.05.16 Join ender| [0] (~ender1@foo.eternallybored.org) 01.05.16 Join TBCOOL [0] (~tb@c-f43571d5.09-42-73746f22.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) 01.05.16 Join pjm0616 [0] (~user@114.200.203.101) 01.05.16 Join jordan` [0] (~gromit@2001:660:3302:2826:225:90ff:fe20:d9a8) 01.05.16 Join zu [0] (~zu@ks355000.kimsufi.com) 01.05.16 Join bylzz [0] (~bylzz@arpnet.org) 01.05.16 Join eintopf [0] (eintopf@zzz.strace.org) 01.05.16 Join scorche|sh [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 01.05.16 Join ved [0] (ved@ddsbox.co.cc) 01.06.59 # JdGordon: I was wondering why you can't add lines to simplelist if it has a get_name callback 01.08.44 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ) 01.19.27 Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection timed out) 01.22.29 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.61.157) 01.28.26 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 01.29.06 Part toffe82 01.35.14 Quit Unhelpful (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.36.09 Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@58.104.52.211) 01.36.30 # Kugel: addlines is used when the list is all static items 01.36.47 # Callback is when any/all are dynamic 01.36.47 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 01.36.53 # I found that too 01.36.53 # U can't mix them 01.37.10 # my list is all dynamic, but why can't I add a line dynamically? 01.38.04 # You mean increase the line count? 01.38.12 # ryes 01.38.27 # That's not what addline does 01.38.47 # I didn't talk about addline 01.38.52 Quit sirrozha (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 01.38.52 # I'm not at my comp, does the simplelist struct have the actual list struct? 01.39.14 # * JdGord got confused 01.39.43 # Do it manually through the gui_list struct 01.39.46 # simplelist only lets one change the line count if get_name isn't given 01.39.57 # I worked around by using the classic list api for that 01.40.20 # Yyou can extend the simplelist api 01.40.28 # it has an api for this 01.40.40 # the code explicitely checks get_name == NULL 01.40.55 # That might be a bug 01.41.08 # Ill be in the office in 20min, ill look then 01.41.10 # it does so in a few places. it seems intentional to me 01.41.34 # see what I did in debug_menu.c with the buflib related debug items 01.56.31 Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) 01.56.57 # kugel: which simplelist funcyin you asking about? 01.57.51 # simplelist_set_line_count() 01.59.31 # Why do you want to change the line count thouhg? simplelist_show_list() doesnt return while in the list 01.59.46 # is that because you dont want to reinit it ever? 02.00.06 # the items to be displayed change in the action callback 02.05.13 # what the heck are you doing? :) you can probably remove that get_name == NULL check 02.05.13 # see debug_menu.c 02.05.13 # ok, you've added test code to debug_menu? 02.05.13 # I added a buflib debug item 02.05.13 # 1) im not sure how you expect that to work.. you are unallocing the handle after setting the list count? 02.05.13 # the number of allocations (which are listed) changes in the callback (pressing STD_OK makes an allocation) 02.05.13 DBUG Enqueued KICK JdGordon 02.05.13 # that really should have been in a seperate plugin 02.05.13 # test_buflib.rock 02.05.20 # but anyway, you free the handle in the same callback 02.05.26 # so the count shouldnt change? 02.05.44 # the count changes because it leavs an unallocated block 02.05.47 Join Pacific [0] (~521be6fc@giant.haxx.se) 02.06.00 # Hello there 02.06.25 # oh, well, using gui_synclist_set_nb_items() is fine 02.06.38 # I tihnk all that should be removed to a plugin and a proper test suite built 02.07.31 # the simplelist code is also calling this, but blocked by the get_name == NULL check. I don't know why though 02.08.48 # I downloaded a version of Rockbox 3.9 with the USB-PIO patch for my Clip+ but I want to change the version number from r30325M to just 3.9 for aesthetics, could this be done easily or would it require messing with the source code and compiling it myself? 02.09.02 # kugel: it is making sure the count is always correct when using the static array 02.09.26 # Pacific: you need to compile it yourself 02.09.37 # and we ask that you *dont* do that, or at least dont give it to anyone else 02.09.45 # 3.9 does actually have special meaning 02.10.27 # Alright, thanks for the help! And I don't plan on giving it to anyone else 02.10.36 Quit Pacific (Client Quit) 02.12.17 # kugel: also, what is the point of that debug menu? 02.12.35 # are you expecting people to ever run it? or you to run it each build? 02.12.57 # I use it a lot 02.13.29 # hmm, I meant the allocating magic button 02.13.53 # I use that a lot also 02.14.16 # that worries me a bit 02.14.58 # :? 02.15.11 # doing mostly-random alloc/frees through there isnt testing 02.15.38 # a proper test suite plugin would be infinitly more valuable 02.15.56 # i have plans for a test plugin 02.15.57 Join bluefoxx_ [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106e0cb4e0a6d8a.vs.shawcable.net) 02.16.07 Quit aevin (*.net *.split) 02.16.07 Quit efyx (*.net *.split) 02.16.07 Quit bluefoxx (*.net *.split) 02.16.07 Quit desowin_ (*.net *.split) 02.16.07 Quit Slasheri (*.net *.split) 02.16.07 Quit [fred] (*.net *.split) 02.16.15 # heck, even not freeing immediatly and allowing the free to happen later would be more valuable 02.16.25 # I just dont see the point in that 02.16.31 # you don't need to 02.17.59 # ok, so enlighten me 02.19.23 # why? you're going to complain anyway 02.20.23 Join desowin [0] (~desowin@ip-69-162-133-251.static.chi2.systeminplace.net) 02.20.25 Join aevin [0] (eivindsy@unaffiliated/aevin) 02.20.36 # kugel: yes, it's possible to restart playback without _restarting_ playback (which was built into the new "design") 02.21.17 # JdGordon: no point in insulting me in the other channel 02.21.52 # jhMikeS: how? 02.23.29 # passing the right flags to audio_start_playback 02.24.19 # but playback is stopped prior to calling that, no? 02.24.40 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 02.24.40 # * kugel is posssibly missing something 02.24.42 # not when changing crossfade and such 02.25.07 Quit JdGordon (Quit: fuck the lot of you) 02.25.36 # it just resets the engine and resumes but doesn't leave play state 02.27.46 # jhMikeS: not sure what you mean 02.28.21 # I can call it with AUDIO_START_RESTART, but that doesn't help me when I need to stop playback in order to resize buffering space prior to that 02.28.23 # see audio_set_cuesheet and audio_set_crossfade 02.29.26 # ah, you need to get some action in between there 02.31.13 Join Slasheri [0] (miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) 02.31.14 # is this code specific to playback because of the way it uses leftover ram? 02.31.29 Join efyx [0] (~efyx@lap34-1-82-225-185-146.fbx.proxad.net) 02.33.22 # jhMikeS: what do you mean? 02.35.01 # the playback state changing 02.39.25 Part bylzz 02.41.22 # jhMikeS: well, if I get you right, you suggest I just call audio_start_playback() with the right flags? 02.41.59 # but that leads to audio_reset_buffer() to be called which makes a new allocation. that doesn't work from within the the shrink callback 02.44.45 # I wasn't fully aware of the requirements in this particular case. 02.45.36 # the requirement is that the buffer is shrinked (so that no code exceeds the new bounds anymore) before returning 02.46.23 # and that nothing messes with the buflib allocations 02.47.29 # (since I'm following up on your TODO) does the core_shrink caller need to be the same thread? 02.47.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.48.11 # no, the thread doesn't matter 02.48.28 # what matters is that it's called before the callback returns 02.49.15 # also the callback isn't called on the audio thread but I wanted to play safe 02.52.39 # shrinking from the end is rather unlikely, that's only when space is needed to expand the handle-to-pointer lut. actual allocations only happen to ask for space in the front 02.53.45 # an additional flag could allow that to be put inside audio_start_playback and you only do one operation on the audio thread. if playback isn't playing then audio isn't doing anything else anyway. 02.54.40 # but that still stops playback for a moment, doesn'T it? 02.56.27 # sure, but not actually alter the state 02.57.02 # what's the exact gain of this? 02.57.52 # well, it could cause wps to exit spontaneously 03.04.23 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) 03.11.27 Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection timed out) 03.26.39 Quit nick-p (Quit: Leaving) 03.27.53 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 03.28.03 Join [fred] [0] (fred@ircop.efnet.at) 03.28.08 Join Rob2223 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF281E.dip.t-dialin.net) 03.31.18 Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 03.32.44 Quit mgue (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03.32.49 Join mgue [0] (~mgue@p5DDA39D1.dip.t-dialin.net) 03.33.19 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03.33.33 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 03.33.58 Join markun [0] (~markun@s3eea32f5.adsl.wanadoo.nl) 03.34.30 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF281E.dip.t-dialin.net) 03.51.30 Quit tjb0607 (Remote host closed the connection) 03.52.45 Join tjb0607 [0] (~quassel@208-100-128-206.bendbroadband.com) 04.08.13 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@149.254.61.38) 04.08.26 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 04.12.18 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.12.18 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.12.29 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.12.31 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.12.34 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.12.38 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.13.42 Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) 04.15.05 Join robin0800 [0] (~quassel@149.254.61.38) 04.19.33 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04.24.44 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: leaving) 04.45.22 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 04.45.37 Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 04.47.45 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.53.37 Quit soap (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.10.17 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 05.33.58 Quit ps-auxw (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.35.59 Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123) 05.42.01 Join Rob2223 [0] (~Miranda@p5DE4BFE7.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.46.03 Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.58.04 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@login.ok-labs.com) 05.58.04 Quit JdGordon| (Changing host) 05.58.04 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 05.58.21 Nick JdGordon| is now known as JdGordon (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 06.03.36 Quit JdGord (Quit: Bye) 06.18.52 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 06.24.58 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 06.30.46 Quit guymann (Read error: Operation timed out) 06.38.02 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06.47.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.54.55 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-61-166-99.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 06.54.55 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 06.54.55 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 07.14.17 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07.22.38 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-61-166-99.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 07.22.39 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 07.22.39 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 07.33.14 Join blindwanderer [0] (~ad48516e@giant.haxx.se) 07.41.28 # While r30393-110830 for Sansa c200 seems to run, it won't play mp3's, instead it just advances to the next file. Reverting to older version. 07.43.14 Quit blindwanderer (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) 07.48.21 Join blindwanderer [0] (~ad48516e@giant.haxx.se) 07.48.54 # *rolls eyes* thought I rebooted, nevermind. 07.49.36 Quit blindwanderer (Client Quit) 07.52.56 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@178.182.112.249.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) 07.53.38 # JdGordon: What are technical blockers for customizable menus? 07.53.51 # wodz: none 07.54.14 # IMO this is the ultimate solution when following menu reorganization thread 07.54.20 # that is entirely project policy 07.54.53 # oh, I thought that simply no one care enough to implement 07.55.17 # like I said in the thread. I don't particularly like Al's patch, but wouldnt object to it 07.55.32 # no, the usual reason given is it would be a support nightmare 07.56.20 # well, it is only matter of first ask to roll back to default layout before asking for help 07.57.09 # indeed 07.57.17 # we only need to provide indicator if custom layout is used to sort this out quickly 07.58.10 # I'm not sure that is even needed 07.58.28 # wodz: also, this becomes a bit more complicated when one takes into account our blind users, but... 07.59.01 # what *is* needed is enough people to put their hand up and say they wouldn't object to it outright so someone can work on it and not waste their time 07.59.03 # scorche|sh: why? 07.59.21 # * wodz rises his hand 07.59.22 # scorche|sh: blind users would have the same benefit from this, probably moreso 08.02.24 # JdGordon: possibly - i am just bringing up the usual arguments 08.03.03 # right, which is why if this is ever going to change we need people to stop being apathetic and say the usual arguments are invalid 08.03.53 # the patches implementation using a text file to load the main menu is a really simple solution to the support question also, rename that file and you have a supported configuration without nuking all your other settings 08.04.27 # JdGordon: running time in System - This is how I found that something is fishy with pll/dividers settings on rk27xx - it simply run too slow. But I don't know if this is enough reason to leave it. 08.04.55 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.05.24 # JdGordon: text file was my idea - personally I don't see any reason to block such approach 08.05.35 # I agree 100% 08.05.49 # It will only provide added value with minor hassle 08.05.55 # but then apparently I've got a change fetish or something 08.05.59 Join God_Eater [0] (93722cd1@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 08.06.59 # * [Saint] got tired of supporting customizable menus and getting shot down by "the usual pects" 08.07.07 # wodz: as for running time, well I'm not going to bother removing it if system+settings get merged because there is no real need... if t&d *only* was being moved then I'd care more, but it does look like *most* people don't hate the proposals 08.07.10 # <[Saint]> *suspects too 08.07.18 # <[Saint]> ERR:LAG 08.08.50 # back in a few min 08.09.51 # kugel: A good estimate for a needed tempbuf size is about: commit_entry_count*sizeof(struct tempbuf_searchidx) + (commit_entry_count + tch.datasize/TAGFILE_ENTRY_CHUNK_LENGTH)*sizeof(void **) + commit_entry_count*TAGFILE_ENTRY_AVG_LENGTH 08.09.54 # <[Saint]> Customizable menus, however, don't fix the fact that the default layout is still crap. 08.09.55 # Not speaking that we will save a lot of work with menu reorganization 08.09.57 Quit powell14ski (Quit: powell14ski) 08.10.03 # <[Saint]> We still need to fix that, and put that thread to bed, IMO. 08.10.15 # <[Saint]> wodz: No, we won't. 08.10.19 # <[Saint]> It still needs to be done. 08.10.34 # <[Saint]> For those that won't use this feature, which will be many. 08.10.42 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 08.10.58 # <[Saint]> The default layout is still important, moreso than custom layouts. 08.11.05 # <[Saint]> We still need a "sane" main menu. 08.14.17 # while I generally agree, the pressure will drop significantly with customizable layout 08.17.19 Join dunkaist [0] (~dunkaist@217.197.7.195) 08.18.29 # wodz: are you talking about complete menu customising? or jut the main/root menu? 08.19.04 # <[Saint]> wodz: I don't see how the pressure will drop. 08.19.23 # <[Saint]> It'll still be there, it'll just give people an opportunity to ignore it. 08.19.30 # <[Saint]> but the default layout is the priority. 08.19.41 # if we (will) do root menu customization what stops us from full customization? 08.20.09 # my view is that the main menu should be completly customisable, with the option of adding a shortcuts submenu to favorite settings, but not full customisation because i think the code bloat wont be worth it 08.20.29 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: Agree completely. 08.20.42 # from the discussion it is clear that even if we come to consensus it will not satisfy everyone 08.20.47 # <[Saint]> ordering *every* menu item will bloat the menu code out needlessly. 08.21.01 # <[Saint]> only the main menu need customization. 08.21.04 # I also doubt people would use it 08.21.09 # <[Saint]> the rest of the menu needs "sane" ordering. 08.21.12 # wodz: well thats never going to happen anyway :) 08.21.38 # JdGordon: the bloat would be like number of entries* sizeof(function pointer) 08.22.05 # <[Saint]> exactly, needless ;) 08.22.30 # all this menu customization is needless 08.23.33 # and if we make one menu customizable people will ask that we make the otherones customizable as well 08.23.45 # wodz: + parseing whatever file lays it out 08.23.47 # <[Saint]> I agree entirely with JdGordon that there's no need to offer sub-menu customization. Allowing a customizable main menu (and possibly quickscreen) is all that's needed IMO) 08.24.26 # <[Saint]> For the rest of the menu, the plan to go with sorting out the sub-menu categories/ordering still seems like it'd be best. 08.24.31 # i thought the qs already was customizable 08.24.41 # people want more than 4 items 08.24.57 # <[Saint]> n1s: It is, buit if you want more than 4 items (people do) its somewhat lacking. 08.25.17 # <[Saint]> A simple, list style quickscreen has been wanted by some for ages. 08.25.24 # that's a completely different thing though 08.25.45 # <[Saint]> ...in what way? 08.26.05 # That wouldn't be a quickscreen anymore 08.26.07 # * n1s don't care at all about the qs but i think it seems very arbitrary to say "menu x needs to be customizable but not meny y" 08.26.28 # The quickscreen is meant to be for real quick operation of often-used things 08.26.31 # [Saint]: it *is* customizable, you want to replace it with a menu 08.27.12 # <[Saint]> Not just me...the countless people that want more than three items, and also want to include the (many) items the QS doesn't allow. 08.27.20 # <[Saint]> s/three/four/ 08.27.41 # It's in fact still not as quick as it used to be before the action code 08.27.47 # amiconn: yeah, but the QS hasnt been as quick as it used to since actions went in (or was that finally fixed?) 08.27.54 # snap! 08.28.01 # it's still something different from making it customizable and i don't see why it is relevant 08.28.08 # It's still quicker than a menu though 08.28.10 # <[Saint]> and I also don't see how it would stop it from being a "quickscreen"..if you want more than 4 items, and others don't..it won't affect them. 08.28.32 # <[Saint]> I assume the option for a "standard" QS will be left in place. 08.28.38 # <[Saint]> I wouldn;t see why not. 08.28.57 # the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it 08.29.00 # it seems like people start pulling in everything they want to change about the UI into every UI discussion 08.29.15 # n1s: haha, sad but true 08.29.18 # And I can't see what a menu-style quickscreen would offer. You can just use the ordinary menu at the same speed then 08.29.28 # <[Saint]> Geee...talking about UI changes when changing the UI comes up.... 0_o 08.29.41 # * [Saint] is shocked! :) 08.29.53 # amiconn: it would mean all *your* favorite items are in the one submenu instead of across a dozen 08.30.06 # it does have an actual beenfit 08.30.19 # * [Saint] nods. I'd use it, for sure. 08.30.28 # So what five items do you change so often that you need to cut 5 or 6 seconds off your use time for them? 08.30.33 Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) 08.30.34 # How many items *you use often* are actually scattered? 08.30.46 # n1s: thats probably because we've had the same UI mistakes for 10 years and none are ever fixed 08.30.54 # * amiconn actually doesn't even use the quickscreen 08.30.56 # And which of them aren't associated with other items, so that they wouldn't be even faster by just using a .cfg? 08.31.10 # amiconn: that's not the point though. I also neever use the QS, but some people want it 08.31.19 # yeah 08.31.23 # <[Saint]> A .cfg is fine, if you have a few, very specific fixed case scanious. 08.31.25 # I don't want to remove it 08.31.30 # JdGordon: true, but i think it makes discussing isolated changes harder and thus less likely to go anywhere, which is sad 08.31.34 # please read what I said.... 08.31.50 # I explicitly said it wouldnt change if you wanted the current QS 08.31.56 # <[Saint]> *scanious? 08.32.06 # <[Saint]> Errr.... scenarios. 08.32.15 # * [Saint] curses his phone. 08.32.17 # Why not address the actual use cases? Talk about which settings exist that need changing regularly independently of each other. Rather than just saying "some people want it" demonstrate the cases where it's useful rather than hypothesizing that they're out there. 08.32.53 # Llorean: from your own mouth... "I don't really think your speculation on what the most likely way 08.32.56 # users use the settings is means much. The honest truth is, we don't 08.32.59 # know." 08.33.13 # how are we supposed to know what users want? 08.33.21 # or fix the damn issue and empower them from the get go 08.33.22 # JdGordon: Yes, but you're claiming we should change it for reasons we don't and can't know. How does that work? 08.33.25 # about customizable menus - if we could load "menu functions" one by one we may decrease final binary size in some cases 08.34.00 # Llorean: err, what?! 08.34.15 # JdGordon: I didn't ask for the most likely way. 08.34.24 # JdGordon: I asked for cases that this is meant to address. 08.34.25 # and i didnt say anything about that 08.34.35 # JdGordon: You attempted to counter with a quote from me about "most likely ways" 08.34.47 # I'm not asking for likelihoods. Just cases in general. 08.35.26 # It's a change with the intent to increase the number of accessible settings via the quickscreen. So let's talk about which of our settings are changed regularly independently of each other, and perhaps why they aren't more accessible in other ways. 08.35.44 # and how the hell are we supposed to know that? 08.36.05 # Well, since you're trying to solve a problem, it seems reasonable that you've identified it. 08.36.13 # Rather than focusing on a single solution, let's focus on the *problem* as there might not be a lone solution. 08.36.16 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@giant.haxx.se) 08.36.26 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) 08.36.29 # Or is this a case of "I want to make this change, so I'm making up reasons to justify it that I won't really go into the details of"? 08.37.06 # I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask "what are we trying to solve with this?" 08.37.14 # I guess this is more question to the users asking for more qs entries 08.37.18 # yes, thats it.. i need to stroke my ego with added changes 08.37.32 Quit dunkaist (Quit: leaving) 08.38.15 # Llorean: as for solving issues... i note you havnt touched the settings menu ordering doc after saying you actually wanted to find a solution 08.38.51 # JdGordon: Stay on topic please, or are you trying to avoid answering the question? 08.38.54 Quit CaptainKewl (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.39.02 # I've already explicitly said my intent regarding that document. 08.39.08 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@119.224.108.127) 08.46.19 # reading whole discussion I am a bit shocked how Jd is attacked considering the fact how polite he tries to push this changes 08.46.24 Join dunkaist [0] (~dunkaist@217.197.7.195) 08.46.38 Quit funman (Quit: leaving) 08.47.50 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.49.12 # wodz: I don't think anyone's attacked him here during this discussion. 08.50.09 # * JdGordon guesses the menu change ml thread(s) 08.50.19 # good thing I have thick skin :) 08.51.57 # yeah, that was a bit harsh 08.52.11 # <[Saint]> Its especially surprising since *I'm* the one that re-opened this can of worms....*sigh* ;) 08.52.21 # lucky it was just an end user and no-one we actually care about the opinion of ;) 08.52.22 # <[Saint]> He's just getting shit because he's prepared to implement it ;) 08.52.46 # [Saint]: if it's your can of works - can *you* cite these use cases Llorean is afteR? 08.52.50 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08.52.56 # s/works/worms/ 08.53.08 # <[Saint]> Hmmm...seems I need to scroll. 08.53.13 # <[Saint]> What does he want? 08.53.20 # which can of worms are we talking about now? 08.53.32 # there is about 15 change discussions happening in parallel :p 08.53.44 # [Saint]: To simplify - what problem are we trying to solve? What is the full list of settings that are likely to be changed often, independently of one another so that .cfg files aren't likely to be useful. 08.53.57 # JdGordon: search me - [Saint] claimed ownership of said can. 08.54.00 # <[Saint]> If its about the quickscreen, I believe I have it in my logs Llorean himself saying that its generally accepted that users want more than 4 QS items. 08.54.06 # [Saint]: I like to start from the core of things. If settings need changed often, we should look at what those settings are, and possibly if there are other ways to address that need. 08.54.40 # <[Saint]> Ohhhh to find that log. That'll shut this up. 08.54.52 # I'd be surprised if I ever said that. But I will admit to having said I wouldn't mind replacing the quickscreen with the "load .cfg file" screen as an alternative. 08.55.15 # [Saint]: grep is your friend 08.55.18 # <[Saint]> Dammit! You're lucky you said it in community ;) 08.55.22 # But that's more on my personal use case than any perceived problem. 08.55.24 # rockbox utility only creates voice files from the curtent svn .langs, right? 08.55.30 # <[Saint]> I'll need gevaerts for this I think. 08.55.34 # as in not for releases 08.55.34 # [Saint]: when do you think he said it? I'll look through my logs. 08.55.59 # <[Saint]> I seem to recall it at elast since I've been back...~2 weeks, or so? 08.56.15 # not that I think it matters mind you 08.56.19 # why does it matter if Lloreansaid that? 08.56.22 # <[Saint]> I have a hunch it was in -community, but I may be wrong. 08.56.31 # I'm fairly certain I didn't say anything like that recently 08.56.44 # I don't believe I've commented on the quickscreen at all, outside this discussion, for months at the shortest. 08.57.15 # I'm not prepared to say I've never suggested some users might want more than 4 at any point, but even then, I'd like to know *why* more than simply the fact that they do. 08.57.22 # this argument really is stupid 08.57.43 # We have no idea of knowing how users use rockbox, so obviously we have no idea which settings are important tto them 08.57.58 # Then how do we know it's important to replace the quickscreen with a menu? 08.57.59 # we DO know that we have been asked for more settings on the QS before and customisability in the menus 08.58.03 # so why not allow it? 08.58.15 # [Saint]: nope - he never said any such thing 08.58.15 # "Have been asked" != "is important" though. 08.58.26 # We have been asked for pretty much any idea under the sun. 08.58.54 # Llorean: do you *ever* actually read? I've said twice today and about a million times evry time we have this discussion that I'm not in favour of *removing* the current QS for those that want to stay with that 08.58.55 # Which is why it's valuable to look at why it's needed/wanted, to weigh against costs and look for alternative ways to meet that need. 08.59.17 # JdGordon: aren't you discussing a change here? 08.59.22 # JdGordon: I didn't mean to suggest you want to remove it. I suppose "replace" was the wrong word there, sorry. 08.59.25 # * [Saint] wonders what it is he's thinking about...then. I'm sure I recall *someone* (damn sure it was Llorean, but, apparently not) saying that it was universally accepted that users want more than 4 QS items. 08.59.28 # * [Saint] retracts. 08.59.35 # [Saint]: I remember it too 08.59.42 # [Saint]: I don't know who said it, but I'm *very* confident it wasn't me if it was recently. 09.00.05 # I know that some users want more than 4 QS items. I don't believe it's universally accepted that any significant number of users would want or benefit from this. 09.00.23 # 16:28 the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it 09.00.28 Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) 09.00.43 # We can't just add all kinds of exotic functions just because someone asked for them. Every additional function comes at a cost 09.01.24 # JdGordon: that could easily be read as you wanting to remove the QS 09.01.29 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@www.haxx.se) 09.01.29 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 09.01.29 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 09.01.30 # <[Saint]> If it can be allowed (as an alternative to the "normal" QS), at a nominal binsize hit (I sincerely doubt this change would affect binsize in any detrimental way)...I don't see why not to allow it. 09.01.44 # God_Eater: how?! 09.01.58 # though from context I see you're saying now you would allow it as an option to choose between keeping current behaviour and a new method. 09.02.09 # 16:28 the way I'd do it is (allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it) 09.02.21 # <[Saint]> [18:28] the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it 09.02.21 # added brackets to remove ambiguity 09.02.25 # Can we drop the issue of whether or not what JdGordon said could imply it would be removed? We all know now that he doesn't want it removed. 09.03.46 # [Saint]: adding features and not removing others always increases binsize 09.04.11 # which is why I've been saying running time and debug info should be removed 09.04.27 # <[Saint]> I didn't say it wouldn't. What I did say, is that I doubt it would be anything significant. 09.04.49 # JdGordon: But those are an entirely different conversation. "Remove X means it's okay to add Y" isn't how it should work. 09.04.51 # <[Saint]> "check for magic file, if its there...use that instad of QS, if not, don't" 09.05.15 # Why is there so much resistance to trying to figure out if it's actually *needed* rather than just suggested by a person here or there? 09.05.34 # [Saint]: please not magic file 09.05.43 # * JdGordon could implement a menu based quickscreen in *maybe* 200-400 lines including spaces :) it isnt a big feature 09.05.50 # It sounds like nobody in this discussion thinks they personally would actually make use of it, based on nobody knowing what settings would need such access? 09.06.08 # <[Saint]> n1s: In my imagined implementation, the "magic file" would be the users custom ordering. 09.06.20 # Llorean: well I barely ever use the quickscreen as is. I can't imagine wanting to replace it with a huge menu either. 09.06.25 # <[Saint]> not something simply to "turn it on" 09.07.02 # <[Saint]> Llorean: DId you miss me saying that I'd certainly use it? 09.07.09 # God_Eater: As it stands, the quick screen can hold 4 different settings. So the hypothesis here is that there are use cases that include 5 different settings that are changed frequently enough to warrant quick access, but are changed independently so a .cfg is inappropriate. 09.07.21 # [Saint]: i'd prefer to have at least a visible setting for enabling, like a file selection option in which people could choose the cusom menu they wanted 09.07.21 # <[Saint]> I *hate* digging through menus, even if I don't access them regularly. 09.07.39 # hidden stuff usually means few people use it 09.07.41 # <[Saint]> I'd love to know I had a list, ordered exactly as I please, of my frequent menu items. 09.07.51 # [Saint]: What are your frequent menu items? 09.07.52 # <[Saint]> who wouldn't? 09.08.05 # <[Saint]> a lot..apparently, but I don't see why. 09.08.15 # <[Saint]> Llorean: WHy does that matter? 09.08.18 # <[Saint]> *WHy 09.08.24 # <[Saint]> fuck it. :-S 09.08.30 # i only use the menus when i want to test something 09.08.40 # [Saint]: Well it sounds like you want it as an alternative because we're not getting custom menu ordering, from your description. 09.08.43 # [Saint]: to answer Llorean's earlier question about the use case! 09.09.31 # <[Saint]> Llorean: That's partly the case, but even if custom menu ordering were allowed, I'd probably still use this as an alternative. 09.09.34 # * JdGordon 's config.cfg has 8 lines only 09.09.42 # <[Saint]> As I could have a minimal list of items of my chosing. 09.09.57 # [Saint]: So what would those items be? 09.09.58 # <[Saint]> And not have to dig down into any menu. 09.10.58 # can we *please* push this discussion aside and just agree on the main menu proposal change? 09.11.16 # even if that just means how we all want settings and system merged 09.11.47 # really it seems to be do we put settings as a submenu in system or not 09.12.15 # * Llorean prefers to put system in as a submenu of settings. 09.16.50 Join ender` [0] (~ender@foo.eternallybored.org) 09.16.55 # why can't re-ordering of the main menu wait until we've finished looking at the entire menu structure? 09.17.17 # 1) because I don't believe that will actually happen 09.17.25 # They're basically independent anyway, with the possible exception of T&D moving over to somewhere else. 09.17.37 # 2) the scope of that doesnt necessarily involve the main menu 09.17.57 # * JdGordon throws something sharp at apple... apparently the ipod mini's OF does that backward ordering also 09.18.17 # <[Saint]> "backward ordering"? 09.18.23 # settings > system 09.18.36 # <[Saint]> Ah, right. 09.19.02 # android and apprently the ipod of are the only things which follow that... 09.19.20 # <[Saint]> TBH, I really don't give a flying whether its Settings - System, or System - Settings...as long as its agreeable to all that the two be merged. 09.20.16 # noone has actually said they dont want them somehow merged right? 09.20.36 # <[Saint]> If the Android OF does this, *and* the iPod OF....and we run on both, maybe it *might* be sane to follow suit? 09.20.58 # <[Saint]> Since, we run on both. Best not to confuse needlessly, yeah? 09.21.14 # gnome does it system > preferences... OSX does it the correct way, booting windows to make sure also 09.21.43 # * [Saint] slaps his forehead ;) 09.21.44 # do we want to align with dumbed-down interfaces now? 09.21.48 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.21.53 # <[Saint]> Lets refrain from words like "correct" ;) 09.22.45 # anyway, it seems very few people actually have an opinion here 09.22.47 # From my perspective: "Settings" is something everyone knows to look for. "System" is something people will enter hoping settings might be found there once they don't see it at the top level. 09.23.02 # Llorean: +1 09.23.29 # I don't think there's a large practical difference in the name, but I think naming it "Settings" is a little friendlier over all. 09.23.53 # since when do we do friendly over correct? 09.24.06 # we use database instead of "music" or "libary" 09.24.23 # full EQ instead of a dumbed down one 09.24.59 # I highly doubt anyone would actually be confused if they saw the settings items inside system 09.25.17 # We actually offer a dumbed down one as well. "Music" isn't correct from some perspectives, and neither is "library." You're pulling random things in here, but it's really entirely subjective what order they belong in. 09.25.27 # dumbed down EQ, that is. 09.25.52 # I'm glad of the dumbed down one - I've no friggin' clue how to use the full one. 09.26.28 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@119.224.108.127) 09.26.52 # But, typically, in places where it doesn't cost us to be user friendly, we should be. 09.27.25 # When we talked about naming it "library" or "music" there was talk of those *increasing* confusion in some cases. 09.28.10 # yeah, well I disagree 09.28.55 # no way. really? 09.29.03 # i'm for merging but don't really care if settings or systme is the top level item 09.29.10 # With which point? That those could be confusing, that we should be user friendly when possible, or that Settings is the more obvious "this is what's here" name for the top level? 09.29.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> n1s: same here. 09.30.02 # all three points really 09.30.21 # given then items there is no way users would get lost 09.30.46 # we have plenty of cases where we do correctness over friendliness 09.30.48 # I don't see what's to gain by intentionally not being user friendly when the opportunity arises. I can see how you might have a different opinion on the other two, thought. 09.30.56 # <[Saint_AndChat]> How can one argue against being user friendly where possible? 09.31.30 # this isnt user frieldnyyness anyway, this is "our users are stupid" 09.31.37 # [Saint_AndChat]: JdGordon can argue black is white. Did you not know this yet? 09.32.00 # <[Saint_AndChat]> JdGordon: I disagree. 09.32.00 # God_Eater: well that is my point... if more people would open their mouths this would be done 09.32.22 # right now its me and Llorean, and everyone else doesnt care, and i've done the patch and ready for commit 09.32.41 # I'm only not because I dont want to appear like i'm not trying to get consensus 09.32.48 # <[Saint_AndChat]> There seems little reason to deliberately do the opposite of the host os. 09.33.02 # [Saint_AndChat]: and on targets where the OF does the other way? 09.33.24 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ate there any? 09.33.28 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Are 09.33.30 # I don't like "System" as the top level entry 09.33.36 # I prefer "Settings" 09.36.27 # will anyone put up their hand to help with the manual changes needed? 09.36.31 # including screenshots :/ 09.36.39 # * [Saint_AndChat] too but I could tolerate either. 09.37.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I nominate alexbobp! He's managed to avoid most of this discussion ;) 09.37.42 # i can help with the manual, screenshots are tedious though so i'd prefer not to have to do all of them by myself 09.38.06 # and i think i'll do it after it's certain which way we went :) 09.38.10 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Don't we have a "make screenshots" script? 09.38.15 # we do? 09.38.18 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I thought so... 09.38.30 # rasher has a patch which is good enough for this, but it still involves building the lot of them 09.38.39 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ah. 09.39.04 # You're not going to get around that 09.39.12 # frankly at this point I don't even care any more, I do feel pretty offended that people who are pushing one way dont want to contribute to getting their way done though 09.39.20 # Building is just a matter of pressing "go" though 09.39.39 # The patch still needs work though, to be really useful 09.39.49 # but if it means that I'm stuck doing everything then I'm getting my way 09.40.14 # * JdGordon doesnt think that is unreasoable given the lack of conviction from 99% of the audience 09.40.47 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Well...in what way could I be of use? I see it as stalled as every time someone has a suggestion there's a twelve hour argument. 09.40.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I don't want to waste my time. 09.41.47 # <[Saint_AndChat]> If I contribute I don't want changed minds the next day. You dig? 09.42.12 Quit Scromple (Quit: Leaving) 09.42.56 # JdGordon: Isn't the difference between your way and the way people have suggested almost literally one word? Is it really that much more work to do it the other way, or is this just a case of "I'm looking for another excuse to do it my way now that people spoke up?" 09.43.29 # so? 09.44.01 # If I'm doing *all* the work, and it is such a small difference, and so few people care... why shouldnt I get something back from it? 09.44.02 # <[Saint_AndChat]> The only thing I see left is system - settings vs settings -system 09.44.26 # the manual is the only thing holding this back 09.44.38 # screenshots+some tex reordering 09.44.47 # JdGordon: Why did you even ask for opinions if your intent was to ignore them, then? 09.45.06 # I'm not sure I like the idea that because you're doing the work you get to overrule a majority wanting thinking there's a better solution. If that is the situation, which it sounds like. 09.45.13 # im not ignoring *them*, I'm asking for more than 2 people to weigh in 09.45.21 # what majority? 09.45.23 # The excuse "well, if I'm doing the work, I can ignore the opinions of the rest" would apply to *everything* otherwise. 09.45.30 # its still less than half a dozen people saying *anything* 09.45.47 # JdGordon: Irrelevant. A majority of the people who care enough to speak up 09.46.33 # JdGordon: so far you're the *only* person who has said they want "System" as the top level entry. Everyone else who has ventured an opinion has disagreed with you. 09.46.54 # but noone has disagreed with the need to merge the two 09.47.07 # <[Saint_AndChat]> That's not the issue 09.47.27 # <[Saint_AndChat]> And you're right Boone has 09.47.35 # <[Saint_AndChat]> No one 09.47.38 # lol autocorrect 09.48.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> The issue, is what should be top level. System or settings 09.48.41 # correct 09.48.55 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I wanted settings but I caved in to try to get an agreement. 09.49.04 # and the people arguing one way dont actually want to contribute to it 09.49.14 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Errrrr.... 09.49.21 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I do! 09.49.26 # JdGordon: But that is not a useful argument. "I'm doing it so I should get my way" shouldn't be an argument. Otherwise, why have discussions at all? 09.49.58 # erm - we *are* contributing. We're telling you what we think. 09.50.12 # and if just a few more people said they absolutly dont want it that way I'd give in... 09.50.15 # *Especially* in this case where the amount of work is the same. 09.50.33 # <[Saint_AndChat]> How many more do you need? 09.50.36 # I could sort of see it if it was a matter of one way being significantly more work 09.50.41 # if you're defining "contribute" as "write their own patch to do it" then you're a fucking moron. 09.50.51 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Sorry but so far I just see one that wants system top level 09.51.22 # Can someone explain the issue in a few short sentences and I'll give my unbiased opinion :) I don't know who wants what. 09.51.45 # [Saint_AndChat]: lol, what am I nominated for? 09.52.00 # [Saint_AndChat]: I avoided the discussion by being out trying to fight with some damnable printer nonsense 09.52.03 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I caved as I have NP write access, and agreeing made thongs easier. If I had my way settings would be top level. 09.52.07 # rasher: Basically, it's an argument about a single word. In the top level Rockbox menu, System and Settings are being merged. The question is, would we prefer the new item to be named System or Settings? 09.52.13 # blast these school assignments! I shouldn't have to use obselete stuff like paper! 09.52.22 # Some of us feel that "Settings" may be more familiar to users, and may (slightly) aid user friendliness. 09.52.23 # Llorean: System, I say. 09.52.23 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Thongs 09.52.25 # <[Saint_AndChat]> ...lol 09.52.27 # [Saint_AndChat]: hahahahaha 09.52.28 # others feel that "System" is technically more correct. 09.52.34 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Thongs. 09.52.42 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Dammit! 09.52.57 # so is it true that fuze v2 usbmode works just fine as long as all I care about is linux? 09.53.07 # I would like to know how to enable it if there is an easy way 09.53.13 # because I hate the OF with a fiery passion 09.53.13 # How about we drop both "System" and "Settings" and name it "Configuration" 09.53.15 # rasher: thank you :) 09.53.26 # haha 09.53.27 # Llorean: how is that any different to settings? 09.53.45 # Honestly, I don't see it being any sort of issue though 09.53.50 # Either would be fine 09.53.51 # Five more letters, for a start. 09.55.12 # * [Saint_AndChat] chokes back a laugh. 09.55.17 # Would it fit on charcell? 09.55.19 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ahem. 09.55.27 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Probably not. 09.55.37 # charcell is 11 chars isnt it? 09.55.41 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Too long I think 09.55.59 # There are also other languages.. 09.56.08 # I was going to say "fuck off charcell" but system is shorter so would win if that was the deciding factor 09.56.27 # Well it wouldn't be a deciding factor between System and Settings 09.56.41 # 2 chars less 09.56.47 # Sure but both fit on charcell 09.56.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> ...as long as it fits. 09.56.57 # Really though, the idea that it shouldn't be named "settings" is mostly based in pedantry around the idea that some of the things contained in it won't actually be settings any more. Specifically the Rockbox Info, Debug, and Running Time options. 09.57.02 # so call it "ass monkey" 09.57.19 # Llorean: oh good, we like pedantry here 09.57.58 # I really fail to see why this is a point of contention though. Even though I feel System would be a better choice, it seems more people like Settings, so why not go with that? It doesn't matter that much... 09.58.14 # because "more people" here is 2.... 09.58.17 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Llorean: which is why I wanted the "about" menu. 09.58.23 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Fixed ;) 09.58.41 # JdGordon: Not like you're going to get all developers weighing in on an issue like this... 09.58.44 # and it matters because this is a bikeshed 09.58.53 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Put the npn-settings in About. Done. 09.59.15 # <[Saint_AndChat]> non-settings. 09.59.20 # and about goes where? 09.59.21 # It's exactly bikeshedding. So go with the more popular option and move on because ultimately it doesn't matter 09.59.39 # <[Saint_AndChat]> JdGordon: under Settings 09.59.44 # which is wrong! :D 09.59.49 # <[Saint_AndChat]> No! 09.59.52 # rasher: Honestly, most of us have said it doesn't matter too much to us. I think more of us object to how JdGordon's acting about the whole issue than the issue itself. 09.59.52 # YES! 09.59.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> ;) 10.00.26 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Perfect timing... 10.02.22 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 10.03.01 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Seriously though, an About menu would solve all this "non-settings items under settings" nonsense. 10.03.27 Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) 10.03.29 # <[Saint_AndChat]> And a LOT of OSes do this Settings -About thing. 10.04.07 # [Saint_AndChat]: I wouldn't mind Settings->About, but it's not going to solve the problem simply because it leaves the same issue of technically there being non-settings within the settings hierarchy. 10.04.48 # <[Saint_AndChat]> It nodes them away, at least. The majority does seem to thing Settings is sane. 10.04.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> It shortens the list, also. 10.05.15 # <[Saint_AndChat]> S/nodes/hides/ 10.05.34 # Please stop using the word majority 10.05.36 # 6 people have weighed in 10.06.02 # <[Saint_AndChat]> And the majority of them agree settings is sane. 10.06.30 # <[Saint_AndChat]> So, majority is correct here. 10.06.47 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Those that don't comment, apparent have no opinion. 10.07.07 # Or just aren't here. 10.07.55 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Well that too...but them not commenting doesn't change that the main portion of those that have commented agree settings is better wording. 10.08.09 Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10.08.15 # 2:4 is hardly a mojority 10.08.28 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Were...yeah, it os :) 10.08.48 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Dammit! 10.09.13 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Were...yeah, it is. 2 vs 1 is a majority. 10.09.24 # it's the very definition of a majority. 10.09.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Indeed. 10.09.38 # It's at *least* as technically a majority as "Rockbox Info" is technically not a setting. ;) 10.10.22 Quit JdGord (Quit: Bye) 10.10.33 # it's pretty clear that basically you want to continue this argument until you manage to get enough people to agree with you JdGord, at which point I expect you to suddenly commit your patch as is. That's acting like a dick. 10.20.41 Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) 10.20.58 # If I wanted to be a dick id have commited already 10.21.14 # 6/40+ is not enough voices to do anything 10.21.38 # I've also asked for help which noone is willing to do 10.21.50 # Train 10.21.54 Quit JdGord (Client Quit) 10.23.45 # * [Saint_AndChat] wonders how many times he's confirmed he'll help. 10.23.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Once I know I'm not wasting my time. 10.24.17 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Is this being willfully ignored? 10.25.07 # what's the patch do? 10.25.10 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I've said it at least a dozen times I'd say. 10.25.53 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I just don't want to work on something only a handful of people want, that may change and waste my time. 10.26.17 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I want a CONFIRMED menu first. 10.26.26 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Then ill gladly help. 10.26.35 # * alexbobp is completely lost 10.26.53 # <[Saint_AndChat]> alexbobp: probably best ;) 10.27.22 # aww 10.27.29 # I wanna know what the patch does that people are arguing about! 10.27.43 # should I ask in -community? 10.27.43 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Menu ordering. 10.27.53 # oh, okay, I don't really care then XD 10.28.03 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Settings - system vs system - settings 10.28.29 # <[Saint_AndChat]> The two will be merged, the question is what will be top level. 10.28.47 # oh 10.28.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Majority says settings, jd says system. Stalemate. 10.29.51 # I think settings -> system is more like what most original firmwares do 10.30.09 # mainly because average end users are scared of seeing words like "system" in their main menu, I suspect 10.30.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> That's a non-argument, apparently. 10.31.05 # well, if it were up to me, they wouldn't be merged :P 10.31.10 # but it's not a big deal to me, pay no heed! 10.31.19 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Then an os that does it the other way is brought up. 10.31.32 # I can see his argument... system -> settings is more intuitive to me 10.31.36 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ie. Stalemate. 10.31.41 # but settings -> system is probably less scary to novices, and it's faster for reaching most options 10.31.44 # that you actually want to reach 10.31.54 # * [Saint_AndChat] nods. 10.32.15 # <[Saint_AndChat]> IPod and android do it this way. 10.33.01 # so, uh, on the topic of patches... 10.33.05 # alexbobp: I think that either way, what you see when you enter the menu will be the same. It's really just an issue of naming, not actual organization. 10.33.56 # i vote for Settings > System order. 10.34.39 # <[Saint_AndChat]> alexbobp: there's nothing on flyspray regarding this iiuc. There's a patch that does what I'd wants on the ml though. 10.34.42 # aww, my fuze just hardlocked when I tried to use the fm radio :( 10.34.48 # the menu options under 'system' all seem to be a setting of some sort... whereas all settings cannot ideally be grouped under 'system' category. 10.34.56 # Llorean: so if it's system -> settings, you'd have a "settings" menu full of your clock and the credits and running time and stuff? 10.35.00 # because that would make no kind of sense! 10.35.36 # So on the topic of patches I hear from http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS it's possible to use usbmode in rockbox on a fuzev2, if you only care about linux support 10.35.49 # <[Saint_AndChat]> mystica555_: care to actually look again? 10.36.15 # <[Saint_AndChat]> There's only time and date under system that is a setting. 10.36.40 # <[Saint_AndChat]> The test are clearly not settings. 10.36.49 # Time and date aren't settings! 10.36.52 # <[Saint_AndChat]> S/test/rest/ 10.37.17 # gevaerts: how not? 10.37.27 # <[Saint_AndChat]> gevaerts: you can set them can you not? 10.37.45 # alexbobp: a setting is something that when you go back to it shows what you set it to 10.37.54 # I thought the idea was that the menu structure would be our current "settings menu" with the "System settings" merged with the current "System" menu and then the top level menu would either be named System or Settings? 10.38.00 # If your clock behaves that way, I recommend replacing it 10.38.12 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Like 12/24 hour? ;) 10.38.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> That's shows as you set it. 10.38.43 # gevaerts: I would argue that what you are "setting" is the offset of your device clock from real time, and you would like it to remain close to 0 after you set it to that 10.38.43 # [Saint_AndChat]: i seem to have ctrl-f'd to the wrong 'system' section in the manual. 10.38.47 # Well, ok, some bits in there are setting 10.38.56 # gevaerts: are you saying that how a setting is displayed to you changes whether it is a setting? 10.39.06 # gevaerts: So if you set the offset between the RTC and the local time, and it displayed that offset rather than the actual time, would it then become a setting? I mean that's what you're setting, it's just a display issue... 10.39.07 # i apparently got to 8.5 > system which is not the same as 'main menu > system' 10.39.33 # Llorean: it would. I'd argue that you're not doing that though 10.39.40 # i still find a few setting values within the main menu > system 10.39.49 # Llorean: <3 10.39.55 # why not move those setting values to 'settings' and keep the system menu as 'sysinfo' :P 10.40.04 # Now I don't mind moving the thing to settings, but I do object to this general "time is a setting" idea that can *only* lead to a career in politics 10.40.07 # to imply 'no settings at all here' 10.40.19 # gevaerts: So you don't "set" the clock? 10.40.38 # compromise: the menus should be called "Steve" and "Larry", and nobody can opine that they are incorrectly descriptive 10.40.38 # Llorean: I tend to adjust it :) 10.40.44 # Ah, so it's an adjusting. 10.40.46 # Fair enough. 10.40.51 # * Llorean begins plans for a new menu. 10.40.51 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Lol. 10.40.57 # this is pedantry at it's finest 10.41.19 # alexbobp: gevaerts and I probably shouldn't be allowed to speak to one another. He's also a weapons-grade punner. 10.41.22 # <[Saint_AndChat]> System, Settings, Adjustments ;D 10.41.30 Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) 10.41.42 # but once you adjust something, is it not set? :P 10.41.54 # mystica555_: clearly not. It changes all by itself 10.41.54 # mystica555_: It's hardly set if it keeps changing. 10.42.04 # * gevaerts clarifies again that he doesn't intend this to be an argument in the current discussions 10.42.08 Quit JdGord (Client Quit) 10.42.11 # then how would you tend to adjust a constantly varying value? 10.42.24 # mystica555_: You *could* set an offset to that value. 10.42.33 # which then is now set, thus a setting :P 10.42.41 # But the current discussion is, quite literally, about whether the top level is *named* one thing or another, not what it contains or any issue of ordering. 10.43.08 # well if you're all restructuring the menus, shouldnt all of that come into play? 10.43.30 # The issue is mostly that 'System' avoids the issue that 'Settings' is not wholly technically correct. While one could argue that 'Settings' is more likely what a user will expect to see and may look for in the first place. 10.44.07 # mystica555_: The organizing of the content of the menu is a much larger project anyway. There's an effort to come up with an organized way to tackle it. 10.44.59 # settings should stay ; any adjustable crap may go under it imho. as for where 'system' goes, sysinfo is what it should be named as it overloads the general settings > system menu...and should contain no settings of its own 10.45.37 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 10.46.20 # <[Saint_AndChat]> mystica555_: there would be no need for that menu. 10.46.29 # fwiw, can I vote "don't change anything"? 10.46.34 # <[Saint_AndChat]> There isn't really any need for it now. 10.46.45 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Its just a clone of System 10.47.07 # I honestly don't see why we're in need for a drastical UI change (which just confuses existing users) 10.47.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.48.04 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Because the menu is TERRIBLE 10.48.25 # [Saint_AndChat]: which menu is a clone of which now? 10.48.29 # <[Saint_AndChat]> People being used to it doesn't make it un-terrible. 10.48.41 # but it's an argument to not change it 10.49.07 # I also doesn't find it that terrible 10.49.45 # if I need to vote for a change, I'm probably still in the "move t&d to settings and rename system to about" camp, without merging 10.50.36 # <[Saint_AndChat]> mystica555_: nevermind. I confused myself thinking about another menu. Apologies. 10.50.40 # I don't find it terrible either 10.51.08 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Because we're used to it. 10.51.13 # no 10.51.14 # I'd just take everything in the top level "system" menu, shove it into the current Settings->General Settings->System menu and call it a day if it were completely up to my preference. 10.51.14 # JdGordon: there were several more people than 2 that voiced an opinion. I guess you ignored them because they don't have your opinion 10.51.15 # * gevaerts thinks he agrees with kugel 10.51.21 # We have two places called system. Merge them, go to bed. 10.51.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> It's very unintuitive for.new users. 10.51.53 # [Saint_AndChat]: Rockbox is complex firmware. It's not always possible to make it intuitive. 10.51.55 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Were all just used to it. 10.51.57 # This is why we ship a manual. 10.52.11 # <[Saint_AndChat]> That no pneumonia reads ;) 10.52.18 # * kugel always wonders where people get the knowledge what's confusing for new users and what not from 10.52.19 # <[Saint_AndChat]> No one. Lol. 10.52.20 # If you want intuitive, stick to the OF 10.52.31 # [Saint_AndChat]: there is no such thing as intuitive software 10.52.31 # other than making assumptions based on oppinions 10.52.31 # A question. The way it's set up currently, would it be feasible for the same setting to appear in multiple places? 10.52.32 # kugel: indeed 10.52.44 # <[Saint_AndChat]> kugel: from watching new users. Personally. 10.52.46 # Llorean: sure 10.52.48 # For example, could "Volume" show up both in playback *and* sound settings? 10.52.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I've converted a lot of people.to Rockbox. 10.53.11 # [Saint_AndChat]: for god's sake use a PC. 10.53.40 # Just thinking on the big settings reorganization, and thinking in some of the ways I might group them, it'd make sense for some settings to show up in more than one place. 10.54.02 # yay, redundancy 10.54.06 # [Saint_AndChat]: 'sokay. i just have always noted the names overload eachother so saying the 'system' menu leads to confusion... 10.55.24 # for me it seems the whole drastical UI change was just brought up because JdGordon was unhappy with that's going to happen to t&d. nobody really put up a complaint about the current structure 10.55.34 # Would someone mind looking at a rockdev.sh error for me? http://pastebin.com/b3kx3Hdn 10.56.40 # that binutils package isn't there anymore, is it? 10.57.05 # and to me it seems that lots of the discussion is insulting, mainly by JdGordon 10.57.05 # holy crap you're right 10.57.13 # Bagder: I just did "file" on it and it's an html document 10.57.19 # I would have refused to unpack that too. 10.57.23 # yes, someone else mentioned that problem the other day 10.57.43 # how can I make it sew? 10.57.57 # I must have my rockbox usbmode! 10.58.08 # I really want to never boot OF again, it's "refreshing your media" thingy is positively dreadful. 10.58.32 # try editing the script to use binutils-2.20.1a.tar.bz2 instead 10.59.00 # Did anyone figure out what was so terrible about the old version that it had to be eradicated? 10.59.19 # Bagder: thanks 11.00.24 # rasher: I'd guess a security bug or a correctness bug with compiling, if they'd do that 11.00.54 # Pretty crazy that it's just gone without a trace. 11.00.58 # Bagder: all the downloading seems fine now, thanks :D 11.01.26 # rasher: if it's a security thing they probably keep it secret for a few days until major distros picked it up 11.01.47 # rasher: it's understandable i nsome cases. Better to make people do a double-take and fix their scripts, then let them accidentally install a compiler that will produce bad binaries and screw them later. 11.01.58 # I don't suppose someone has the old package for a diff? 11.02.02 # kugel: hm, good point 11.02.16 # kugel: surely someone does, what with this script! 11.02.18 # someone among the devs 11.07.27 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3B69C.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.07.57 # given this is an entirely aestetic change (therefore subjective), and has no technical justification for either way, tell me if this is a distrotion of facts 11.08.00 # 1) the *vast* majority have no opinion at all 11.08.02 # 2) of those that have an opinion, aronud half dont have a strong opinion either way and just want the discussion to end 11.08.05 # 3) of those that do have a strong opinion, only one person has made any effort to actually implement it 11.09.02 # * [Saint_AndChat] waits for the bit that matters. 11.10.05 # alexbobp: old buggy versions are usually kept around on the ftps and new patched versions are added. This has to be something else than just some regular bug 11.10.05 # 1 and 2 are probably true. I don't know the details on 3. 11.10.09 # JdGordon: you brought this thing up in the first place. why should anyone else have to offer an implementation? 11.10.39 # * [Saint_AndChat] coughs. 11.10.45 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I brought it up. 11.10.55 # <[Saint_AndChat]> He did something about it. 11.11.07 # JdGordon: I disagree with including 1). It's factually correct, but a not important when judging what the opinion. We'll *always* only get a subset of developers participating. 11.11.15 # [Saint_AndChat]: merging system and settings was your idea? 11.11.36 # <[Saint_AndChat]> kugel: oh...THAT. 11.11.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I thought you meant menu ordering as a qhole, sorry. 11.12.09 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *whole 11.14.14 # rasher: even taking that out, if ppeople dont step up to do the work on such a trivial change then why should anyone listen to them at all? 11.14.27 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 11.14.29 # that is hardly unreasonable 11.14.33 Join pamaury_ [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 11.14.42 Quit pamaury_ (Remote host closed the connection) 11.15.07 # JdGordon: we're not settled on what we want to have, it's unreasonable to expect an implementation at this point 11.15.09 # New commit by 03buschel (r30394): Declare several libgme functions static. 11.15.27 # that you have a patch doesn't make the thing less controversial 11.15.31 # I disagree. Especially when it's not a matter of workload (ie. if it was a matter of one option being much more work than the other, I'd be more inclined to agree) 11.17.22 # right, and right now noone is doing anything either way 11.17.32 # if one person said theyd do the work i'd give up 11.17.35 # i'd even bloody commit it 11.17.42 # I just want the argument fininshed 11.18.10 # what I dont think is fair is having to do the work and not get my preference when it is an entirely subjective matter 11.18.24 # r30394 build result: All green 11.18.26 # do what work exactly? we haven't reached a consensus 11.18.26 # JdGordon: So don't do the work at all then. 11.18.32 # and im not commiting the work i've already done because i dont want to appear to be an ass 11.18.33 # JdGordon: Nobody's making you do anything. 11.18.47 # indeed 11.18.51 # What exactly are you holding out for? 11.18.58 # wow, rockbox builds fast 11.19.04 # As long as one of the valid options is "do nothing", and some people want that option, I don't think "I'm doing the work" can ever be considered even slightly valid 11.19.06 # but noone else has said they will do it 11.19.07 # like 100 times faster than the toolchain I had to build to build rockbox XD 11.19.15 # making the work in advance, then crying about it is also not fair 11.19.18 # JdGordon: You're basically saying you'll never do it the way people have voted, so what are you holding out on? You can now just go do something else. 11.19.30 # I'm not really in favor of merging the menus, if that's what's up for debate 11.19.37 # but I also only barely care 11.19.56 # * JdGordon looks forward to this argument coming up again in a few weeks 11.20.09 # weeks/months/whenever 11.20.42 # * alexbobp looks forward to this being the last goddamned time he ever boots original firmware 11.20.58 # JdGordon: You've created a situation where the only two options are "someone else write the whole thing" or "you get it your way." Why are you even still arguing? 11.21.30 # Llorean: not really. Just edit his patch, it'll be easy! 11.21.41 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 11.22.10 # or a patch on his patch. but you get the idea. 11.22.27 # alexbobp: It would take more effort for him to share it with me than it would be for him to change the word. Somehow I don't suspect he'll be sharing it if he's not willing to do the other work. 11.23.00 # Llorean: oh, are you guys committing directly to svn? 11.23.04 # no decentralized revision control? :P 11.23.05 # my patches are all on the mailing list 11.23.20 # JdGordon: Are there any that doing contain the reordering as well? 11.23.37 # would it matter? 11.23.44 # alexbobp: we're still on svn, yes. we are moving to git, but haven't executed that yet. 11.23.45 # its not like you're actually going to *do* anything 11.24.27 # go on.. prove me wrong 11.25.10 # oh the buggered patches that also sneak in the resume playback & playlist catalog swap? 11.26.15 # because its so hard to understand the patch to put it back 11.27.08 # I need help with the usb mode patch 11.27.27 # I applied this patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664?show_task 11.27.32 # to enable usb support on the fuzev2 11.27.49 # is there anything special I need to do once it's plugged into a computer? it's not doing anything different than before, just charging 11.28.09 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Quit: AndChat - Android IRC Client - http://www.andchat.net/) 11.28.12 # JdGordon: Why does your "no other changes" patch have "-case GO_TO_MAINMENU: -return ONPLAY_MAINMENU;" as two changes to onplay.c? 11.28.13 # I don't understand the binutils diff really, but it doesn't impact our targets 11.30.13 # Llorean: i havnt uploaded any with that filename 11.30.27 # What filename? 11.30.28 Join lorenzo92 [0] (~chatzilla@95.233.108.80) 11.30.38 # exactly 11.30.51 # I have no idea what you're saying now. 11.31.03 # and i have no idea what diff you're talking about 11.31.09 # It's simply called "changes.diff" and you described it as "All this does is move the contents of the settings menu into the system menu, and move the system menu to where settings currently is. It also changed the "rockbox info" icon. No other changes." 11.31.29 # I can see that as well 11.31.37 # was that so hard to say the first time? 11.31.45 # context does help 11.32.08 # I do believe it's the only patch you described as having "no other changes" after I complained about you inaccurately describing earlier patches. I thought that was context enough. I'm sorry. 11.32.20 # because GO_TO_MAINMENU is 1) never used 2) meant for going into the settings menu which was rmeod in that patch 11.33.07 # I also said that I just wanted help doing the manual changes, i'll do the code changes 11.34.58 # Just a minute ago you were refusing to do the code changes. 11.35.32 # no i didnt 11.36.26 # So I'm confused. 11.36.35 # When you asked for help, [Saint] said he was willing to. 11.36.48 # But you've been holding out saying that since you've done the coding, it should be named what you want it named. 11.37.01 # i never said that at all 11.37.13 # alexbobp: You need to apply the first patch to sansafuze.h as well 11.37.15 # and [Saint] hasnt agreed to anything untill there is consensus 11.37.22 # JdGordon: "(4:18:06 AM) JdGordon: what I dont think is fair is having to do the work and not get my preference when it is an entirely subjective matter" 11.37.31 # What did you mean by that, then? 11.37.54 # the screenshots, the manual changes 11.38.07 # I'm realistic enough to know noone else is going to touch root_menu.c 11.38.11 # alexbobp: there's a different patch in that tracker task that does that for you: 11.38.47 # alexbobp: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664?getfile=22652 11.39.30 Quit lorenzo92 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11.39.32 # JdGordon: I'll tell you what. Go ahead and finish your patch 100%, including manual work, and post it to the mailing list. I'll happily convert it to what the consensus agreed on. Then you won't have to do a single iota more work than you would have if we agreed with you. Sound fair? 11.39.37 # alexbobp: (ah, it's sansfuzev2.h, not sansafuze.h) 11.40.09 # Llorean: I'm done, take the patch as it is 11.40.33 # and as long as t&d stays in system *or* system+settings merge I'm happy 11.40.36 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11.40.42 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-215-7.26-151.libero.it) 11.41.10 # JdGordon: It's clear you're not, since you're objecting to merging system+settings if it's named "settings" 11.41.35 # fucking hell, i said ages ago i stopped caring as long as it happened and someone else did the work 11.41.47 # JdGordon: the sentence above shows that you still care 11.41.49 # I';ve been arguing for the last hour that i sholdnt be expected to implementing something i disagree with 11.41.57 # Nobody's telling you to implement it. 11.41.57 # you're still against what everone agreed to 11.42.04 # given the lack of caring by anyone else to actually do anything 11.42.06 # Just walk away from the discussion. 11.42.32 # "and as long as t&d stays in system *or* system+settings merge I'm happy" 11.42.46 # sideral: I had applied both patches 11.42.52 # If you don't want to implement what the general consensus settled on, then don't. It'll stay unimplemented, or someone else will pick it up. 11.43.05 # JdGordon: yes, and everyone agreed to move t&d to settings and rename system to about 11.43.15 # alexbobp: the two patches at the top don't apply the needed change to sansfuzev2.h 11.43.21 # sideral: and now I've installed some build from the forums that hangs on boot XD 11.43.27 # sideral: oh I see 11.43.39 # sideral: so I apply the second patch from the link I posted, and the one from the link you posted? 11.44.33 # yeah. or just apply the patch I linked to and answer "no" to the revert questions it'll ask :) 11.44.47 # sideral: I already trashed my stuff and have a clean tree 11.44.59 # er, I meant: or just apply the patch I linked to *on top of the other two* and answer "no" to the revert questions it'll ask :) 11.45.06 # ah OK 11.46.35 # sideral: do I also answer no to "apply anyway"? 11.46.38 # All: Which targets have a 320x240 touch screen? I'm looking for a nice usable theme for my nice&small Android device 11.47.00 # sideral: The Cowon D2 has one, I don't know how usable the theme really is though. 11.47.07 # <[Saint]> sideral: None. 11.47.27 # <[Saint]> the Cowon D2 has this res, but you mention "usable" as a requirement. 11.47.30 # <[Saint]> So, none ;) 11.47.35 # alexbobp: that shouldn't happen. Paste log to pastebin? 11.47.54 # Saint: can you make me one? please? 11.47.59 # :) 11.48.10 # <[Saint]> I will do eventually. ;) 11.48.14 # sideral: http://pastebin.com/VgjNDJUk 11.48.17 # <[Saint]> Its on my To-Do. 11.48.47 # alexbobp: right, answer n there as well 11.49.23 # sideral: no, beast is 320x240 isnt it? 11.49.29 # or ipod video 11.49.34 # touch screen 11.49.49 # excatly... neither of those are touch 11.49.59 # well, I have a keyboard as well, so I could live without touch for the time being 11.50.22 # sideral: huh? 11.50.53 # sideral: the last comment belonged into the other conversation about Android :) 11.50.59 # er, alexbobp^ 11.51.47 # ah okay 11.52.07 # sideral, Slasheri: I have a patch for reboot-less database enablement, but I'm unsure if it's correct w.r.t. to the load to ram feature 11.52.38 # http://pastie.org/2459148 11.52.54 # sideral: should I say y or n? 11.52.54 Quit TheLemonMan (Remote host closed the connection) 11.52.56 # kugel: sounds cool! please put it on the tracker, I won't have time to review it for a few days 11.53.03 # sideral: wait never mind 11.53.04 # I'm retarded 11.53.08 # I was misreading your answer 11.53.35 # okay, building now 11.53.36 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-215-7.26-151.libero.it) 11.53.49 # alexbobp: If in doubt, always say no. :) 11.53.53 # lol 11.57.20 # installing 11.57.48 # oh no, I did major retard, stand by for fat filesystem corruption 11.57.53 # * sideral takes a look at Cowon D2 themes 11.58.16 # some seem not so bad 11.58.43 # but the "Doesn't work with current build" on the theme site scares me 12.00.33 # <[Saint]> sideral: Needs updating. 12.00.39 # <[Saint]> the touch region code change. 12.00.42 # <[Saint]> only a small edit. 12.00.54 # <[Saint]> I'll do itif you get stuck, but I'm kinda busy now. 12.01.31 # Saint: thanks. Maybe I can do it myself if you point me to the relevant commit or mailing-list message? 12.03.06 # <[Saint]> r30129 12.03.25 # <[Saint]> oh...hang on, that should have been fixed. 12.04.57 # <[Saint]> H,mmmmm..apparently not. 12.05.24 # <[Saint]> unless the D2 uses the mrobe500's wps. 12.06.01 # sideral: data abort at 300547A8, FSB 0x8, domain 0, fault 8, address 0x8B000034 12.06.23 # well at least it's trying now XD 12.08.28 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12.09.02 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek) 12.09.22 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: You ever noticed that the touchscreen changes were never added to the manual, or CustomWPS? 12.09.42 # <[Saint]> re: *, & and ! (what *is* !, btw...?) 12.10.01 # <[Saint]> commit 30129 12.10.29 # which ones in particular? 12.10.52 # err, they've been replaced 12.10.53 # <[Saint]> None of the touch area prefixes are defined. 12.11.01 # and that change is in the manual and wiki 12.11.15 # <[Saint]> Ah....right, *that*s why ;) 12.11.33 # <[Saint]> I forgot about that change ;) 12.11.50 # http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS#Touchscreen_areas look at options 12.12.23 # <[Saint]> yeah, I grepped for * & and ! 12.12.32 # <[Saint]> *fail!* 12.12.44 # close as I'm going to get to an apology :) 12.12.54 Quit Bagder (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12.15.37 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 12.30.09 # New commit by 03buschel (r30395): Build libgme with the same compiler settings as other codecs. 12.30.16 Join lorenzo92 [0] (~chatzilla@host117-111-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 12.30.37 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12.33.11 # r30395 build result: 0 errors, 1 warnings (buschel committed) 12.46.41 Quit madskiny (Quit: Connection reset by a small mexican with wirecutters.) 12.47.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.49.17 Join madskiny [0] (dre@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-bwdewrbfbpldyxae) 12.50.16 # where are the docs on buflib usage? 12.55.20 # heh, docs 12.55.54 # * JdGordon wonders why buflib.h is in firmware/export/include 12.56.06 # I thught that was for posix compatability headers? 12.57.18 # alexbobp: hmm. looks like the USB driver does not work for you, then. :-( (assuming you made no other change) 12.57.25 # jhMikeS: : can you take a look at the warning in libspc? by fault I also removed the "-fno-strict-aliasing" compile option for it. Is there a proper solution or do I need to enable it again? 12.57.47 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 12.58.06 # Buschel: err, I forget what that's about, something with the echo...hold on 12.59.40 # JdGordon: its not 12.59.56 # /firmware/include sorry 13.00.50 Quit madskiny (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13.01.03 # Buschel: yeah, it wouldn't not whine about reinterpreting the pointer 13.01.58 # so, I should enable it again? 13.02.42 # perhaps, or I can just try a quick change 13.03.02 Join madskiny [0] (dre@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-cqqfglaisdhxjyhn) 13.04.34 # ok, I would prefer such a quick change :) 13.07.54 # Saint: r30129 is "Update the french translation, shorten string for Archos Player." -- Are you sure? 13.12.57 Join dfkt|n [0] (~dfkt@chello062178002170.1.11.univie.teleweb.at) 13.12.57 Quit dfkt|n (Changing host) 13.12.57 Join dfkt|n [0] (~dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 13.13.48 # <[Saint]> sideral: sorry, 30219 13.14.03 # <[Saint]> ...lucky I saw that, highlights seem to be non-working here. 13.15.40 # Hmm. The theme I'm looking at doesn't use %Tl, but is reported as broken with current nonetheless 13.15.45 # Buschel: this seems to work here: http://pastebin.com/imJ7p6wL 13.16.02 # Saint: AW200glass 13.16.47 # * [Saint] hands sideral checkwps 13.17.27 # thanks! does it produce better error messages than what's shown in the mouse-overs on the theme site? 13.17.38 # jhMikeS: fine :) will you submit it? I cannot test it on a target 13.17.48 # <[Saint]> I _think_ it just spits a line number ;) 13.18.09 # Buschel: sure 13.18.20 # <[Saint]> Oh...what am I saying. No, no it doesn't. 13.18.25 # <[Saint]> that's what the themesite uses ;) 13.18.36 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 13.19.16 # <[Saint]> So if the themesite is not verbose enough for you, checkwps won't help one bit I don't think. 13.19.18 # New commit by 03jethead71 (r30396): Get rid of strict aliasing warnings for ARMv6 spc_dsp.c. Just do load in asm block instead. 13.22.12 # r30396 build result: All green 13.23.53 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 13.25.10 Quit nick-p (Quit: Leaving) 13.25.16 # jhMikeS: thanks 13.25.24 # welcome 13.29.49 # oooh, fancy new debug screen :) 13.32.57 Quit lorenzo92 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110812233755]) 13.34.27 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]) 13.44.38 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13.53.41 Quit dfkt|n () 13.56.11 # Saint: gdb says checkwps barfs at this SBS line: %T(272,26,40,40,&cancel) 13.56.53 # why the & 13.56.57 # I guess that should be ..., cancel, repeat_press) then? 13.56.58 # that was removed ages ago 13.57.01 # yes 13.57.33 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@163.5.180.3) 13.57.33 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 13.57.33 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 13.57.39 # <[Saint]> ",cancel,repeat_press" 13.57.42 # I guess the theme author want compatibility with 3.9? 13.57.49 # <[Saint]> NO NEEDLESS SPACES! 13.57.57 # spaces add readability! 13.57.59 # <[Saint]> heh...says "the king of whitespace" ;P 13.58.10 # * [Saint] retracts. 13.58.12 # want me to commit a patch to the parser to force spaces? 13.58.14 # <[Saint]> Space all you want. 13.58.32 # <[Saint]> errr...dammit, bad timing. 13.58.36 # <[Saint]> No, no I don't ;) 13.59.08 Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) 14.08.32 Quit Bagder (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14.10.17 # why is the operation in tdspeed considered "autocorrelation" - it hardly appears to be that 14.22.11 # mmm, it's considered "the difference function" 14.35.04 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@www.haxx.se) 14.35.05 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 14.35.05 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 14.36.48 Quit user890104 (Remote host closed the connection) 14.36.57 Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info) 14.37.32 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng340.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 14.40.48 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049236092.adsl.alicedsl.de) 14.42.11 Quit Keripo (Client Quit) 14.44.40 Quit Topy (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14.45.13 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@141.45.176.104) 14.45.14 Quit kugel (Changing host) 14.45.14 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 14.47.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.54.56 # what happened to the parse_*(line?) fnction we used to have? 14.54.59 # was it nuked? 15.00.13 # yep... bugger 15.01.06 Join ja_ [0] (~ja@e176037233.adsl.alicedsl.de) 15.01.09 # JdGordon: misc.c? 15.02.21 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@mey343.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) 15.14.54 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 15.18.00 Quit dunkaist (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15.18.49 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Lost terminal) 15.19.03 Join dunkaist [0] (~dunkaist@217.197.7.195) 15.20.34 Part ja_ 15.24.33 Join guymann [0] (~charles@66-159-148-12.adsl.snet.net) 15.32.41 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 15.35.28 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) 15.40.57 Quit nick-p (Quit: Leaving) 15.46.40 Quit God_Eater (Quit: Page closed) 15.48.52 Quit dunkaist (Read error: Operation timed out) 15.52.26 Quit dionoea (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15.52.44 # how the heck does the shortcuts plugin work? 15.56.36 # <[Saint]> poorly? 15.57.38 # eer, I should say, how does the list work? where is the list stored, etc 15.57.46 # is it in the manual? 15.58.36 # * JdGordon hopes the wiki is accurate 15.58.42 # ok, so its the viewer for .link files 16.01.08 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@i02m-212-194-176-149.d4.club-internet.fr) 16.02.46 Quit lebellium (Client Quit) 16.02.59 Quit sideral (Disconnected by services) 16.03.00 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 16.03.11 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 16.03.31 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-215-7.26-151.libero.it) 16.04.18 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.04.40 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 16.04.55 # * GodEater_ doesn't know how it works these days - but I did write the original version of it 16.05.08 # * JdGordon now has a patch to get a *much* better version of the shortcuts plugin in the core 16.05.26 # and llike I said quite a few hours ago.... the .*diff* is under 400 lines 16.05.39 # explain "much better" plz 16.05.47 # and after I change it to use buflib the ram delta will be SFA if you dont use it 16.05.59 # GodEater_: 1) it can work for just about any setting 16.06.10 # 2) it actually runs files instead of just opening the browser there 16.06.16 # it wasn't designed for settings back in the day 16.06.27 # including plugins, m3u files, anything 16.06.43 # and it wasn't supposed to "run" files either - it was supposed to dump you there in the browser 16.06.52 # ok 16.06.56 # that was *specifically* the use case request 16.07.19 # although the settings thing is cool 16.07.21 # I completly forgot about the shortcuts plugin untill about 20min ago 16.07.35 # it wasnt done as a replacement but as requested functionality 16.07.55 # using buflib for it is a great idea 16.08.51 # I seem to recall getting it commited was contraversial at the time 16.09.03 # as it was both a viewer, a plugin, and had a menu entry 16.09.08 # brb, irssi is being screwy 16.09.10 Quit JdGordon (Quit: leaving) 16.09.37 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@login.ok-labs.com) 16.09.44 Quit JdGordon| (Changing host) 16.09.44 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 16.10.10 # <[Saint]> Sounds as though if there were an option for this to launch, or take one to, the desired shortcut object...the shortcut plugin could be tossed? 16.10.17 # <[Saint]> errr..."tossed out" 16.10.22 # * [Saint] eyes the brittish 16.10.27 # <[Saint]> -t 16.10.51 # my poor shortcut plugin. 16.10.59 # :`( 16.11.05 # it could stay around as a UI for editing the .link file :) 16.11.24 # <[Saint]> that's what text editor is for! ;) 16.11.55 # well true, it already has a mode for the .colours file :) 16.11.56 # <[Saint]> but, yeah, JdGordon|... a launch/take me to option *might* be needed, if its not a PITA 16.12.04 # <[Saint]> then it could be, a replacement. 16.12.07 # *needed* ? 16.12.33 # [Saint]: this is me we are talking about.... its completly configurable right now 16.12.35 # <[Saint]> GodEater_: well, yeah...unless regression is a wanted thing? 16.12.57 # it is not needed - it might be a nice to have 16.13.00 # "file: /path/to/file.ext" will run the file, "browse: /path/to/file/.ext" will open the browser there 16.13.05 # <[Saint]> this sounds like it does completely kill the shortcuts plugin. 16.13.07 # if it were *needed* it would have been done years ago 16.13.16 # the difference is 1 line of code :) 16.13.22 # <[Saint]> and, if that was the objective of said plugin....it needs to do at least what it could do. 16.15.42 # * JdGordon| wonders if he can write a simple xml parser in under 50 lines 16.15.59 # I bet you could 16.16.06 # I also bet it wouldn't be feature complete ;) 16.16.15 # for sure 16.16.38 # to do this nicely it needs a bunch of config items for each line which parse_setting() cant handle right now 16.16.59 Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16.17.05 # JdGordon|: what is this you're working on? 16.17.27 # is all it needs to support 16.18.03 # just something I want that will probably not see the light of day 16.18.35 # <[Saint]> I wouldn't go that far... 16.18.42 # ? 16.18.57 # <[Saint]> Oh, whoops...confusing two things. 16.19.11 # <[Saint]> you meant the XML parser when you said that, I guess. 16.20.03 # that xml line is the minimal options that I want to support *right now*... concievebly there would be more 16.20.34 # currently im using a shit system which isnt going to work in the long term 16.20.55 # :[,title] 16.21.48 Join balintx [0] (~quassel@szerver1.gulyasp-koll.sulinet.hu) 16.22.35 # what is the format of the .link files? 16.23.08 # * Torne supports using anything except xml for this stuff. :) 16.23.23 # xml is unnecessarily complicated 16.23.37 # not the full spec obvisouly, nothing more complex that that line 16.23.44 # but it is slightly human readable 16.23.45 # Nonono 16.23.52 # don't use something that look slike xml either 16.23.53 Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) 16.23.55 # becuse 1) it's ugly 16.23.59 # how would you do it? 16.24.00 # and 2) people will assume it is xml 16.24.03 # I dont want more than one line pr item if it can be avoided 16.24.36 # probably json 16.24.37 # http://old.nabble.com/binutils-2.20.1a-replaced-by-2.20.1-and-so-2.21.1a--to32363179.html 16.24.52 # * JdGordon| doesnt know what json is other than a web thingy 16.24.52 # or something similar. 16.25.04 # JdGordon|: for this purpose: javascript literals 16.25.28 # pastebin an example similar to the xml line please? 16.25.30 # {'name': 'something', 'icon': '1', 'type': 'file'} 16.25.42 # though i wouldn't form it quite like that 16.26.22 # http://pastebin.com/1XdetBiy are my two optoins really 16.26.26 # the sedon is annoying to parse 16.26.27 # something more yaml-like might be nicer 16.26.39 # it is? 16.26.39 # I dont see how that is nicer to read or parse than xml 16.26.54 # sedon = second one 16.27.00 # Nop, i mean 16.27.05 # that's not hard to parse at all 16.27.05 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@hil226.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 16.27.10 # kugel: ah so it was some unusual issue that doesn't affect us at all 16.27.12 # that's just ConfigParser/ini/whatever you want to call it style 16.27.14 # that's totally trivial 16.27.20 # n1s: yes 16.27.32 # although theyre lying and the new file doesn't just contain new files 16.27.37 # JSON's quoting requirements are a bit yucky. 16.27.40 # Mr. Someone should patch rockboxdev.sh 16.27.41 # json is more tolerant 16.27.43 # er 16.27.45 # yaml is more tolerant 16.27.50 # Torne: keeping track of the itme we are in... it is trivial, but its just yuck :) 16.28.04 # probably will go the second way though 16.28.21 # JdGordon|: If you thnk you caan write a parser for hte xml-like one that doesn't have to keep track of exactly the same thing you are mistaken 16.28.26 # Those examples are *identical* 16.28.32 # it means any UI to move it has t load the whole file and rewrite, it cant do inplace swaps 16.28.47 # i know 16.28.48 # er, what? 16.28.53 # the second one is compatible with the .cfg format (assuming an implicit default namespace) 16.28.55 # anwyay. yaml is civilisation 16.29.45 # if you lose the ini-style section markers and just indent and use more keys you have a yaml subset :) 16.29.56 # kugel: whats the smallest buffer size buflib copes with without being nasty with fragments? 16.30.16 # 1 byte 16.30.18 Quit mgue (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 16.30.19 # do I do my own buf management on larger chunks? 16.30.40 # err, K, whats the handle overhead 16.31.28 # 5*sizeof(void*) + strlen(name) (rounded up to sizeof(void*) 16.31.29 # doing 1 handle for each 128 byte struct isnt very good if the overhead is biger than that 16.31.50 # so ~30bytes 16.32.05 Join mgue [0] (~mgue@p5DDA3E61.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.32.34 # you can do a big alloc and shrink it later 16.33.50 # Torne: our optimised readline doesnt work very well with multi-line configs which is why I want to avoid that 16.34.17 # * JdGordon| has a play 16.34.21 # huh? 16.34.42 # i don't think we're quite talking about the same thing :) 16.34.53 # im sure we arent 16.35.02 # * JdGordon| knows what he is talking about... that's the main thing 16.35.07 # it is after all past midnight here 16.35.28 # If you care about lines i am inclined to think you are doing it wrong :) 16.35.41 # parsers are parsers; bytes are bytes 16.36.04 # yeah, but using the existing readline api to do minimal work 16.37.28 # Oh, i see what you mean 16.37.58 # i don't think it's necessary, thoguh 16.38.13 # I'm going to put a int** into that params to keep track of the current item for each line 16.38.19 # * JdGordon| is porbably over engineering this 16.39.21 # Anyway. even using fast_readline you can do it exactyl as easily with the other form, i'm pretty sure 16.39.25 # * Torne shrugs 16.40.46 # there doesn't need to be a 1:1 relationship between your actual data structure and lines int he file.. 16.43.05 # no, but you need to keep track of the block currently being parsed 16.43.24 # each block starts with [whatever] 16.45.23 Join glued [0] (~536386b3@giant.haxx.se) 16.47.58 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.51.11 Quit glued (Quit: CGI:IRC) 16.51.19 Join glued [0] (~536386b3@giant.haxx.se) 16.52.05 # hm, SanDisk made the Zip fw available right away, and there's *no logical need* for that -- it's vanilla. 16.52.13 # don't you think it was a move towards Rockbox, so that the porting could start w/o waiting-for-fw-bin delay? 16.52.29 # JdGordon|: Right, but that's no harder than any other way, i mean 16.53.04 # JdGordon|: Also, I don't think you do, technically 16.53.09 # it depends what your data structure looks like. 16.53.24 # you can infer it from the data you already parsed, probably 16.53.42 # you need to keep track of what you've already parsed though 16.53.52 # <[Saint]> glued: I highly, highly doubt that. 16.53.59 # not really, no 16.54.19 # glued: plenty of work has been done for the zip already, we are just waiting for someone to get one 16.55.05 # yes, i know about bertik, i'm about the fact the fw was published 16.55.33 # not the update, like with clips, but the original 16.57.00 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.57.22 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 17.01.10 Quit nick-p (Quit: Leaving) 17.01.35 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 17.01.46 # with clip+ we all had to wait damn months for the bin to make bl, and here it is -- fw avail right away, without any techinical reasons for publishing it 17.02.37 # maybe i' naive, but it looks like an unofficial friendly move 17.06.46 # anyway, i end up half of my post at their forums with "share with Rockbox, like you planned long ago" :) and some other do that too. 17.11.11 # glued: I agree it's curious 17.13.12 # [Saint]: fs#12251 17.13.13 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12251 3user shortcuts in the main menu (patches, new) 17.13.39 # <[Saint]> \0/ 17.14.47 Part Zagor 17.15.29 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17.19.38 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.20.03 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 17.20.15 Quit pamaury (Read error: Operation timed out) 17.21.14 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 17.24.38 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Lost terminal) 17.26.26 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 17.32.34 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 17.32.41 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.32.52 Part LinusN 17.33.04 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 17.34.21 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-215-7.26-151.libero.it) 17.39.24 Quit Llorean (Quit: Leaving.) 17.42.59 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 17.48.10 Quit glued (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) 17.49.05 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 18.00.32 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) 18.00.55 Join kevku [0] (x@2001:470:28:773:babe:feed:dead:beef) 18.01.59 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) 18.05.44 Join gbl08ma [0] (5d66e90d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.102.233.13) 18.09.39 Join dunkaist [0] (~dunkaist@217.197.7.195) 18.09.57 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) 18.32.48 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 18.40.49 Join y4n [0] (y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 18.48.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.54.47 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.01.19 Quit Zambezi (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19.02.41 Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@80.67.9.2) 19.04.04 # I'm figuring out that it's impossible to use a LUA script as a viewer... 19.04.28 # 1st because I'm not sure if it's possible to access the parameter from a lua script 19.05.35 # 2nd because I can't seem to be able to open a file with a lua script after putting my script in .rockbox/rocks/viewers and editing viewers.config 19.05.40 Join Casainho [0] (~chatzilla@bl20-221-34.dsl.telepac.pt) 19.09.30 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.10.07 Quit Casainho (Client Quit) 19.10.17 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 19.13.08 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 19.13.08 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 19.13.08 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 19.18.10 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) 19.24.35 # the "admin work needed" badge has been on the themes site for how long? and what work exactly is needed? 19.26.45 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3BC3C.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.30.06 # <[Saint]> copyright violation perhaps... 19.30.12 # <[Saint]> broken themes. 19.30.46 # At least half are people not realising that "report theme" means "ask someone to look at this" 19.30.53 # I HOPE were not sitting on a copyright violation. 19.31.16 # <[Saint]> evildaemon: there's likely several. 19.31.22 # <[Saint]> but it takes someone to notice. 19.31.31 # And no ones got to them? 19.31.32 # <[Saint]> themes aren't reviewed for content. 19.31.37 # <[Saint]> they just need to parse. 19.31.59 # <[Saint]> so, someone needs to report them, *then* someone needs to *do* something about it. 19.32.24 # <[Saint]> asking to review many hundreds of themes for violation is a joke. 19.32.33 # <[Saint]> we ask the user does this *before* uploading. 19.32.44 # evildaemon: if you know a system to reliably determine if some image is either original work or licensed under a cc-by-sa license, please tell us 19.32.51 # *shrug* I'd assume no one would review them, I'd just think that if I saw some stuff marked "look at this" and it was for copyright infringement I'd get on removing it pretty fast. 19.33.28 # There are *no* reports of copyright issues on the theme site at this time 19.33.44 # Well okay then. 19.34.00 # <[Saint]> I was just using that as an example of what things do get reported. 19.34.20 # But as [Saint] said that doesn't mean all theme uploaders understand the license we ask them to agree to 19.34.44 # Or that there AREN'T any violations, just no ones found them yet. 19.34.58 # (Or reported them.) 19.35.11 # <[Saint]> well, if there aren't any...no one could find them. ;) 19.35.13 # well, that's what a violation *is* 19.35.23 # I meant, if there are. 19.35.32 # They have not yet been found. 19.35.58 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 19.36.06 # I was continuing on the "That doesn't mean...." 19.36.48 # Regardless, wasn't the original issue about the admin stamp? 19.37.53 # <[Saint]> Yes, the admin stamp that pops up when someone clicks "report". But as gevaerts mentioned, lots of people think that button == "hey, this is cool" 19.38.06 # <[Saint]> like a Fb "like" button or somesuch :-S 19.40.41 # "This theme has been [strike]liked[/strike] reported 9006 times!!!" 19.41.47 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.43.44 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.44.08 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 19.44.09 Join bluebroth3r [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 19.47.34 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19.48.41 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053155043.adsl.alicedsl.de) 19.49.00 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p57B57BEB.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.49.00 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 19.49.00 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 19.49.34 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng340.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 19.52.00 Quit Keripo (Client Quit) 19.55.17 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.56.53 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng340.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 19.58.40 Join Pradyumna [0] (~Pradyumna@117.197.208.24) 19.59.10 # Hii 20.00.17 # kind of interesting results running battery tests on sansa amsv2 players: the CLip+ gets massiely better battery life in rockbox then the OF, but the ClipV2 gets better battery life in the OF then rockbox 20.01.13 # The playlist in clip+ is showing file names how to change it to show song titles?? 20.01.49 # Anyone?? 20.02.46 # saratoga, interesting indeed 20.03.19 # going to rerun the test to make sure the battery bench didn't crap out early 20.03.45 # hello 20.04.06 # Pradyumna: rockbox doesn't do that 20.04.18 # saratoga, battery bench should log the reason for exiting the plugin, something like exiting plugin, reason: poweroff 20.04.30 # Any other solution?? 20.04.41 # The file names are too long 20.04.55 # Artist - Album - Song name 20.05.22 # bertrik: it doesn't give a reason, but the voltage reads 3.300 volts, so i'm sure its a battery poweroff 20.07.22 # but yeah the results are so strange, i get 6 hours longer in RB then the OF for the Clip+, but 3 hours less on the Clipv2 in RB 20.07.30 # that makes no sense for two players with nearly identical hardware 20.08.15 # also i get that the Clipv2 battery life in the OF is much better then the Clip+'s which also doesn't make much sense 20.10.53 # <[Saint]> odd results... 20.10.55 # are there other plugins line picture flow? 20.11.01 # like* 20.11.16 # <[Saint]> Pradyumna: No. 20.11.27 # <[Saint]> That's the only one of its kind. 20.12.17 # hm, there's also a clip v1 runtime result where rockbox gets 5h29m while the OF gets 14h59m 20.12.25 # I'm On a clip+ all the album art shows ? Is it like that or should i do something 20.13.09 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@rouxbicon.rh.uchicago.edu) 20.13.18 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@99-68-45-56.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) 20.13.19 # <[Saint]> Album Art *will* look like shit on a monochrome OLED screen, this is a fact ;) 20.13.42 # I agree 20.13.46 # just asking 20.14.47 Quit Llorean (Changing host) 20.14.47 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) 20.15.02 # <[Saint]> Instead of the pixels displaying (as they're supposed to) either on, or off, we flash them at differing rates to give the effect of different shades. 20.15.18 # <[Saint]> its a trick of the eye, to achieve an effect the screen isn't designed for. 20.16.25 # Pradyumna: The only thing in Rockbox that allows you to display only the title of the songs and ignore the filename is the Database, but that doesn't have any effect on the playlist. 20.17.12 # Guess i have to rename all songs its the only solution 20.17.49 # Can we make our own fonts? 20.18.14 # personally I rename my music files as Artist - Song - Album since this way I can have Artist and Song first, which is how I usually search for music. The rule is: put what you find more important first :) 20.18.44 # yes you can convert existing fonts into Rockbox font format, there's info on the wiki on how to do that 20.19.51 # I don't know if the Clip+ is able to display antialiased fonts, but if it is, you better use antialiased. I don't know, however, if there's already a guide written on how to convert AA fonts. 20.20.16 # [Saint]: on lcd that pixel flashing should produce quite smooth shade (lcd reacts slowly), but leds have instant effect. So switching frequency needs to be higher for leds, but probably panel frame rate limits that 20.21.20 # Pradyumna: If it isn't able to display AA fonts, you can convert to the conventional mono format. This one the Clip+ displays for sure. 20.21.49 # <[Saint]> it _should_ be able to do AA, it'd probably look gross, though. 20.22.03 # I want nothing fancy 20.22.10 # just box shaped fonts 20.22.14 # [Saint]: AA on monochrome? 20.22.44 # <[Saint]> gevaerts: Can't we do the same form of trickery there? 20.22.55 # <[Saint]> Oh..right, it needs greylib in core. 20.22.55 # no greylib in core 20.23.09 # <[Saint]> ha! finally beat ya! ;) 20.23.18 # greylib is not in core? 20.24.00 # (if greylib was put on the core, then AA fonts and greyscale icons could be possible) 20.24.34 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 20.25.41 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-206-240-131.dynamic.chello.pl) 20.26.10 # gbl08ma: greylib implies more RAM usage *and* lots of CPU 20.26.28 # greylib in core will kill the perfomance and impact battery life severely 20.26.43 # * gbl08ma is envy that there are more themes for the monochrome Sansas than for the iPod nanos... 20.27.02 # LoL 20.27.03 # ok, i forgot the RAM is limited, the CPU is not that fast and the batteries are not inifnite :) 20.27.22 # <[Saint]> quantity isn't quality. 20.27.48 # <[Saint]> its one of the easier targets to code themes for. 20.28.00 # <[Saint]> you can get away without using viewports pretty easy. 20.30.18 # personally I would design more themes for the nanos but there're a few problems on my side that prevent me from doing it: 1) I have not much graphic editing skills 2) Nano 2G has no radio so that screen would be missing 3) I have a bit of a hard time understanding the themes language 20.30.51 # nano can have radio as an addon 20.31.08 # not the 2nd gen 20.31.37 # <[Saint]> errrr.... 20.31.47 # The only theme work I ever did apart from personal tweaks was porting photoSkins to nano, something I'm still very proud of :P 20.32.08 # <[Saint]> there most certainly are FM headphone adapters for the 2G 20.33.09 # <[Saint]> I have dumps of all the iPod OF bitmaps, I know its there ;) 20.33.51 # Rockbox on the iPod Nano 2G has no acessory protocol support yet that I know of. Look, "Radio" doesn't show on the menu on the 2G nano, but shows on the 1G. Obviously the OF has support for those adapters with their own headphone out. 20.34.35 # the OF has support both on 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G (5G has radio builtin and I gunno about 6G) 20.34.36 # <[Saint]> you didn't say "no radio on Rockbox", though. 20.34.43 # right 20.34.44 # <[Saint]> you said "no radio" 20.35.26 # I don't care about the OF so for me it's like it has no support. Anyways, I don't have one of those adapters. 20.35.59 # and I don't feel like buying one for an iPod that has a scrollwheel that's getting faulty. better invest the money on a new DAP with builtin radio. 20.36.39 # * gbl08ma takes a look at the Sansa Fuze again and thinks "I damn need to save money to buy one of these!" 20.37.23 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20.38.16 Join jchysk [0] (~jchysk@wsip-24-234-188-22.lv.lv.cox.net) 20.39.05 # I saw the huge discussion on the customizable menus, junction of Settings with System, Settings -> System, System -> Settings and About menu on IRC logs 20.40.16 Part jchysk 20.41.08 # and I'd like to have my say on it, so quickly, here it is: the only menu I really like to see customizable is the quick screen, that is, if it handled more than 4 entries and did not only support settings but also files/plugins/menu shortcuts/etc. 20.41.45 Join coinich [0] (~7d1@giant.haxx.se) 20.41.50 # anyone on? 20.42.13 # to handle more than four entries, it would either need to be a menu (thus not being really quick, and you'd loose "blind" operation mode), or be a quickscreen with multiple pages 20.42.25 # coinich: yes :) 20.43.14 # gbl08ma, then at some point we could organise the entries like a list and it would be just like our main menu? 20.44.01 # well, i think you guys are seeing the main menu as replacement for the quick screen, and that's not how things should be IMO 20.44.03 # oh hello 20.44.07 # quick question 20.44.32 # the main page says the most recent version is 3.9, and it was released in June 2011 20.44.41 # I thought there was a major release or patch this past week? 20.44.53 # was there supposed to be one, but it got pushed back? 20.45.22 # coinich: this last week there were many improvements, but no stable release has been made 20.45.31 # coinich: there were plans to release 3.9.1 with some fixes last week, but that got delayed. It's not a major new version though 20.46.07 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 20.46.33 # * gbl08ma thinks we should wait until further decision is made on custom menus and then if they get implemented (and well tested), release 4.0 20.47.06 # gbl08ma: *decisions* are easy 20.47.10 # at the end, since 3.9, we already have an audio mixer, buflib in the core and many tiny fixes 20.47.23 # ah, ok, thanks 20.47.54 # I must've misread 20.48.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.48.46 # gevaerts: I know, I mean decision should be taken *and* work on it should be done if we decide to implement custom menus 20.51.12 # * gbl08ma also *thinks* that multiple/relocatable plugins is something more interesting than customizable menus, and effort should be put on the former instead of spinning around with the latter 20.51.30 # but I'm not a developer, I'm not the one who works for it :) 20.54.49 Join tronse [0] (~c3ab59c4@giant.haxx.se) 20.55.03 # hello guys 20.55.20 # ive finally managed to rockbox my clip+ 20.55.48 # big thanks to bluebrother for helping me last week :) 20.56.21 # but now i have yet another silly question 20.56.40 # tronse: you're welcome :) 20.57.03 # gbl08ma: there's very little overlap between the required skills/work there, so it's unlikely that one is stopping the other getting done 20.57.27 # how do i put the clip+ on hold while in rockbox? 20.57.49 # ive googled this and came up with different answers 20.58.23 # i was told home + select but this doesnt work 20.58.28 # if you read the manual you will find the *right* answer 20.58.33 # :) 20.58.52 # :) 20.59.07 # the manual says Home + Select ;-) 20.59.20 # the manual also says home button and select? 20.59.28 # indeed. that's because that's how you do it 20.59.39 # hmm, that's for the wps. 20.59.52 # i tried but no luck 20.59.59 Quit tjb0607 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21.00.12 # As far as I know, there's no soft lock outside of the wps 21.00.30 # oh.... 21.00.33 # * bluebroth3r has no clip+ so no idea 21.01.03 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 21.01.10 Join tjb0607 [0] (~quassel@208-100-128-206.bendbroadband.com) 21.01.21 # i see... 21.01.24 # oh well 21.02.04 # Why do you want hold outside the WPS? 21.02.29 # because of accidental press 21.03.17 # go to wps before putting it in your pocket? 21.03.35 # if the playlist ended / is stopped you might want one. I use hold on my Ipod for that: to prevent it doing things and not having to turn it off :) 21.04.17 # bluebroth3r: Does the hold cancel if playback ends, I wonder? 21.04.18 Quit coinich (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) 21.04.59 # tronse: I wasn't asking why you wanted hold in general, but why specifically hold in the WPS wasn't enough. 21.06.33 # Llorean: I guess not, but if nothing is actually playing I do see a reason why one might want to enable hold :) 21.06.33 # oh i see :) 21.07.00 Join XavierGr [0] (~xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 21.07.04 # hold is overrated anyway :P 21.07.13 # heh 21.07.14 # bluebroth3r: The Clip+ boots nearly instantly. I'd say turning it off is a valid option if nothing's playing. :) 21.07.19 # bluebroth3r: if nothing is playing, I'd switch the thing off :) 21.07.36 # Playback ending is a valid concern of course 21.07.50 # i havent actually tried that hold optoon in the WPS 21.07.50 # * gevaerts also doesn't have a clip+ 21.07.59 # so i shall try when i get home :) 21.08.23 # gevaerts: I did that in the past. Though recently I'm rather enabling hold instead of turning it off -- I need to enable hold anyway, since my backpack has some feature to press Select on the Ipod when I don't want it to do that :) 21.09.02 # bluebroth3r: ipods are too easy to switch on accidentally 21.09.41 # gevaerts: keep the hold switch on, it won't turn on accidentally 21.09.57 # * gevaerts doesn't actually use an ipod :) 21.10.07 # Did anyone figure out yet what the binutil 2.20.1 vs 2.20.1a thing is about? 21.10.13 # But yes, my gigabeat F tends to be on hold 21.10.28 # gevaerts: indeed. 21.10.35 # I don't see myself having that problem with a clip-style switch though 21.11.04 # I used to put my Gigabeat on hold all the time. I've never felt the need to use the soft hold on my Clip+. 21.11.21 # I typically actually clip it to my pocket, where the buttons aren't likely to get bumped. 21.12.47 # that's why a Clip is for: to clip :) 21.12.53 # s/why/what 21.15.05 # is it just me or the "News" section in the Rockbox Forums is good for burning the screen of old CRT screens? :) 21.19.02 # gbl08ma: it moves! 21.19.51 # New commit by 03buschel (r30397): Update libgme to Blargg's Game_Music_Emu 0.6-pre. 21.22.14 # r30397 build result: 457 errors, 460 warnings (buschel committed) 21.23.17 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 21.23.24 # great, did compile flawlessly for all of my builds :( 21.24.21 # Buschel: we all get our turn at this :) 21.25.24 Quit Pradyumna (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 21.29.23 # New commit by 03buschel (r30398): Check for CPU_ARM in libgme/blip_buffer. 21.29.27 # #1 21.31.22 Join Pradyumna [0] (~Pradyumna@117.197.210.153) 21.31.28 # r30398 build result: 184 errors, 54 warnings (buschel committed) 21.31.50 # good, now to the rest 21.31.51 # now an offf topic question :) 21.32.25 # last week i purchased an alienware M11x (R1) 21.32.41 # tronse: #rockbox-community 21.32.50 # just wondering what good games i could play on it 21.32.57 Quit Zambezi (Changing host) 21.32.57 Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi) 21.32.58 # Just noticed that photoflow shows the album art but only for a few albums 21.33.20 # any specifications to work on all albums?? 21.33.32 # CLip+ 21.41.15 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) 21.42.20 # New commit by 03buschel (r30399): Fix some more libgme compile issues. 21.44.43 # r30399 build result: 144 errors, 0 warnings (buschel committed) 21.45.02 Quit gbl08ma (Quit: Page closed) 21.48.37 # * Buschel cannot see the error :/ 21.49.44 # bertrik: yeah, kugel found it and linked earlier, some license issue with generated files not including the source that was used to generate them, iow nothing that concerns users 21.50.48 # thanks, I think we should update rockboxdev.sh 21.51.17 # yes 21.53.18 # Buschel: looking at the preprocessed source might help 21.53.57 # n1s: I cannot even reproduce this error 21.54.38 # ah, tricky, seems to be only gcc 4.4.4... 21.59.33 Join powell14ski [0] (~powell14s@c-174-51-194-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 21.59.44 # Buschel: I guess it might be due to completely #undef ing assert() 21.59.50 Quit tronse (Quit: CGI:IRC) 21.59.57 Quit bluefoxx_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21.59.57 # (in blargg_source.h) 22.00.42 # Or rather, redefining it as empty 22.02.29 # n1s: Not just 4.4.4, also 4.4.5 (at least) 22.02.38 # (homepc-petur) 22.02.59 # 4.6.1 too 22.03.15 # 4.5.1 22.03.27 # So probably all sufficiently new versions 22.03.37 # this damn libgme is giving me a hard time with each big change... 22.04.39 # Btw, what would be necessary to enable android builds on a box? 22.06.20 # amiconn: install android sdk, ndk and enable arch "android30" i runclient.sh 22.06.32 # can anybody reproduce the build errors on his machine? I would like to have a patch tested before I blind-commit it 22.06.39 # Sdk & ndk are installed on 'saturn' 22.06.59 # The cronjob might have path problems though - have to double chek that 22.07.06 # amiconn: you also need environment variables ANDROID_SDK_PATH and ANDROID_NDK_PATH set 22.07.32 # Hmm, should probably set those in runclient.sh then 22.09.48 # Buschel: Yes I can 22.09.48 # any schedule for git migration? 22.10.13 # gcc 4.6.1 (debian sid) 22.11.05 # amiconn: great! -> http://pastie.org/2461790 22.11.51 # does not empty define assert(), but replaces all libgme-internal assert()'s with empty defined require()'s 22.12.05 # isn't it better to fix the assert define? 22.12.55 # well, the code already had require() and assert(). this way libgme only uses one way (= require()) 22.13.06 Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.) 22.14.25 # gmrl 22.14.38 # The patch doesn't apply. Probably a problem on my end though 22.16.24 # * Buschel will crosscheck 22.16.40 # Hmm, can't find it 22.16.48 # I get lots of failed hunks 22.17.31 # can't you just #define assert() do{} while(0) ? 22.17.38 # works for me with "patch -p0 <" against r30399 22.17.54 # That's what I tried 22.18.11 # Line ending issues with pastie.org? 22.18.38 # I downloaded it via the 'download' link and line endings look unix-ish 22.18.45 # (using wget) 22.19.12 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 22.19.17 # amiconn: http://www.sendspace.com/file/o8myhe 22.20.34 Part tguinot 22.20.38 # That one works... so indeed a download-from-pastie problem 22.20.55 # good, so far :) 22.20.57 # Unfortunately it doesn't fix the build error... 22.22.25 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-61-166-99.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 22.22.25 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 22.22.25 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 22.25.19 # On my box the error is in stdio.h line 417, and that one is related to dprintf 22.25.25 # So my assert theory is wrong 22.27.03 # look at blargg_source.h :/ 22.27.24 # #define dprintf DEBUGF 22.28.56 # simple fix: move the local include to below the system includes 22.29.15 # we don't really want to redefine dprintf in stdio.h 22.29.38 # do we? 22.29.38 # amiconn: does this worok? 22.30.03 # define 'this' 22.30.11 # moving the include fixed it for me (gcc 4.6.1) 22.30.14 # Good custom font for Clip+ 22.30.33 # this = move local include below system includes in ym2612_emu.c 22.30.51 Join bieber [0] (~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) 22.30.58 # http://pastie.org/2461881 22.32.51 # Seems to work here too 22.33.20 # compiles for my environment as well 22.34.45 # New commit by 03buschel (r30400): Fix residual red, thanks to Zagor. 22.34.50 # Let's see 22.34.53 # * amiconn thinks that blargg_source.h is the correct name for this code ;) 22.36.57 # r30400 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (buschel committed) 22.37.35 # heh, running time seems count incorrectly. 30s in running time lasts 46-47s on my stopwatch. sleep(HZ*30) in bootloader is correct so this is not pll setup problem 22.37.36 # kugel's android build environment is broken 22.38.25 # * Buschel assumes this is not caused by his changes 22.38.49 # I'd say that is a fair assumption :-) 22.38.57 # :) 22.42.00 # wodz: freq scaling? 22.42.17 # no 22.44.18 # Zagor: Hopefully my box will do proper android box in the next round 22.44.30 # nice 22.44.33 # Err, android builds of course 22.45.26 Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) 22.45.59 Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@yop.chewa.net) 22.46.23 # Zagor: Is it possible to block a client from doing certain architectures only? 22.46.38 Join Horschti [0] (~Horscht@p5DD579A8.dip.t-dialin.net) 22.46.39 Quit Horschti (Changing host) 22.46.39 Join Horschti [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 22.47.16 Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@2002:4647:1f1f::4647:1f1f) 22.48.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.48.27 # amiconn: no, it's all or nothing. 22.49.31 Quit Horscht (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 22.50.22 # good night, and thanks for your support! 22.50.23 # Would be helpful if a client has one broken (cross)compiler but is otherwise working fine 22.50.25 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]) 22.53.51 Quit XavierGr () 22.54.16 Join glued [0] (~536386b3@giant.haxx.se) 22.54.59 # er... anybody used rockboxdev.sh lately? seems like binutils-2.20.1 were renamed to 2.20.1a at mirrors.kernel.org/gnu/binutils so the script needs to be updated 22.56.42 # yes 22.56.51 # the older one is mysteriously removed 22.59.00 # no, the mystery qwas solved, licese issue 22.59.13 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 22.59.21 # oh, I missed that 22.59.27 # license issue? 23.00.04 # some generated files were included but not the source for them 23.00.14 Join lorenzo92 [0] (~chatzilla@host157-111-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 23.00.16 # some lexer thing like bison iirc 23.00.33 # kugel linked it here earlier 23.01.12 Quit lorenzo92 (Client Quit) 23.01.36 # ah 23.01.39 # btw, (iirc) the binutils patch had a comment "we don't need this at all when 2.21 is out". and it's kinda out, isn't it? 23.02.07 # yes, but we don't use it, yet 23.02.30 # * bluebroth3r wonders why some code that works for the widget doesn't work as notification 23.03.02 # bluebroth3r: am i right thinking rbutil only makes voice files for the current svn .langs 23.03.05 # ? 23.03.31 # so "someone" should then fix rockboxdev.sh in svn ... 23.03.48 # B4gder: i already told Mr. Someone to do it! 23.03.52 # good! 23.04.10 # i can do it tomorrow unless anybody else does it 23.04.22 # as i'd like to test build first 23.04.22 # n1s: yes, and releases 23.04.43 # err, no, scrap that. 23.04.52 # bluebroth3r: does it select by magic or does the user have to? 23.04.58 # ah 23.06.54 # n1s: it retrieves the currently installed version from rockbox-info.txt and passes that to the script that retrieves the strings 23.07.12 # ah, magic :) 23.07.46 # any idea about fs#12248 then? 23.07.46 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12248 3Voice files created but don't match voice prompts with items in menu (bugs, unconfirmed) 23.09.03 # n1s: kinda :) 23.11.18 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 23.11.55 # hmm, with the move to git those scripts will break :/ 23.12.39 Quit dionoea (Changing host) 23.12.39 Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@videolan/developer/dionoea) 23.19.59 Join mt [0] (~mt@41.234.33.83) 23.21.22 Quit glued (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) 23.24.06 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 23.25.06 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23.26.49 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) 23.29.33 Join Challapradyumna [0] (~Pradyumna@117.197.210.153) 23.32.37 Quit Pradyumna (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 23.34.44 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 23.40.19 # I really don't get this. 23.40.41 # <[Saint]> ? 23.40.44 # setting the image for the notification doesn't work, but the same Uri works for the widget 23.41.01 # <[Saint]> What're you playing with? 23.41.15 # Album Art in the notification area 23.41.35 # <[Saint]> Hehehehe.... /me imagines tiny QVGA AA 23.41.47 # <[Saint]> I think I'd get 22px to play with ;) 23.42.00 # I get an image displayed, but not the album art one. The same image path is pushed to the widget though, and it works for that. It's basically the same code :( 23.42.22 # <[Saint]> Google Music beta does this, would pulling apart an .apk help? 23.42.51 # I don't think so. 23.46.55 # <[Saint]> What image *do* you get? 23.47.32 # none. 23.47.49 # and stuff like this in logcat: 23.47.50 # <[Saint]> Oh, right, sorry. I missread. 23.47.50 # I/System.out( 254): resolveUri failed on bad bitmap uri: /sdcard/rockbox/.temp_albumart_261.jpg 23.48.09 # but the same path is passed to the widget 23.49.43 # <[Saint]> I think its maybe a delicate beast, this RaaA thing ;) I can remember wondering why the *frick* I couldn't get user selectable backdrops for the widget working. 23.49.55 # <[Saint]> Despite sharing most of the original widget code. 23.50.14 # <[Saint]> Ummm...backdrops is a bad word. 23.50.49 # <[Saint]> I had a "light" and a "dark" widget theme, that for all intents and purposes I thought should have been user selectable at widget creation time. 23.50.52 # <[Saint]> ...but nope ;) 23.58.38 # now I get a bit more information 23.58.39 # W/ImageView( 254): java.io.FileNotFoundException: /sdcard/rockbox/.temp_albumart_261.jpg (Permission denied) 23.58.44 # but ... why?