--- Log for 26.09.111 Server: asimov.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 day and 18 hours ago 00.01.51 Quit froggyman (Quit: Ex-Chat) 00.02.06 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.05.08 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00.08.32 Join froggyman [0] (~seth@unaffiliated/froggyman) 00.11.00 # amiconn: I wasn't very sure if it's 100% correct, but then I was never sure within mpeg.c 00.11.19 # it's at least very similar to playback.c 00.11.25 # so I guess yes 00.12.27 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 00.13.06 # It still doesn't fix hwcodec completely, as there's the freeze, but that looks like something going wrong later in the boot sequence 00.15.53 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) 00.20.02 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 00.33.31 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.static.tpgi.com.au) 00.33.52 Join Scr0mple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.static.tpgi.com.au) 00.33.52 Quit Scr0mple (Client Quit) 00.34.44 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 00.35.09 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00.38.28 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 00.39.57 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 00.46.43 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 00.48.51 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 00.49.47 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 00.53.55 Quit liar (Client Quit) 00.56.11 Quit hilbert (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) 00.57.11 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 00.59.21 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.00.59 Quit liar (Client Quit) 01.02.16 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 01.08.36 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 01.11.44 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 01.16.40 Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) 01.16.52 Quit liar (Remote host closed the connection) 01.18.46 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 01.19.14 Quit funman (Quit: Lost terminal) 01.19.46 Join funman [0] (~fun@209.197.166.51) 01.19.57 Quit funman (Changing host) 01.19.57 Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) 01.21.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.21.57 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01.25.29 Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) 01.25.56 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) 01.36.09 Quit liar (Remote host closed the connection) 01.43.04 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 01.50.47 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@203.184.50.187) 01.55.26 Quit FoolOnHill (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.59.06 Join saratoga [0] (9803ec71@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.236.113) 01.59.22 # alright i'm about to lose my mind over these stupid c multidimentional arrays 02.00.15 # a struct has member "(*sbsample_prev)[2][36][32] " 02.00.19 Join mamarley [0] (~quassel@Lee-08-199.rh.ncsu.edu) 02.00.20 # how the hell do i iterate over this 02.00.36 # :O 02.01.16 # i tried *(struct_name -> sbsample_prev)[x][y][z] but that didn't seem to work 02.02.01 Join funman_ [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) 02.05.07 Quit funman (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02.09.01 # yeah the above definitely extends outside the bounds of the source array, although i'm not sure i understand why 02.11.03 Nick funman_ is now known as funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) 02.12.15 # saratoga: looks ok 02.12.35 # what type is it? (i wonder why you use * to dereference) 02.13.21 # its the mad_frame struct from apps/codecs/libmad/frame.h 02.14.05 # doing it in multiple steps (assinging a series of derefenced pointers ) seemed to work 02.14.12 # so i guess it was bad parenthesis placement 02.16.13 Join user829385 [0] (~aoeu@112.166.15.141) 02.16.52 # i think matlab has broken my brain about arrays 02.20.03 Join Rob2223 [0] (~Miranda@p5DE4B69B.dip.t-dialin.net) 02.20.47 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p57B575D7.dip.t-dialin.net) 02.20.47 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 02.20.47 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 02.23.04 Quit Horschti (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02.23.04 Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02.26.53 Quit zu (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 02.26.53 Quit jacekowski (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 02.26.54 Quit polemon (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 02.27.14 Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02.27.33 Join jacekowski [0] (jacekowski@jacekowski.org) 02.27.39 Quit dionoea (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 02.27.39 Join polemon [0] (mcp@polemon.org) 02.27.42 Join zu [0] (~zu@ks355000.kimsufi.com) 02.28.12 Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@yop.chewa.net) 02.30.37 Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@h-34-156.a238.priv.bahnhof.se) 02.34.05 Quit soap_ (Quit: Leaving) 02.41.01 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose.) 03.04.38 Quit liar (Remote host closed the connection) 03.09.02 Quit simonlnu (Quit: brb) 03.11.09 Join simonlnu [0] (~simon@unaffiliated/simonrvn) 03.18.34 Join powell14ski [0] (~powell14s@c-174-51-194-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 03.21.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.35.02 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@g228128127.adsl.alicedsl.de) 03.38.54 Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03.42.02 Quit funman (Quit: leaving) 03.57.04 Quit Zarggg (Quit: Rebooting client...) 04.03.13 Quit semitones (Changing host) 04.03.14 Join semitones [0] (~quassel@unaffiliated/semitones) 04.07.16 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng026.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) 04.12.52 Quit bzed (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04.17.50 Join bzed [0] (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) 04.21.22 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.139.169.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 04.22.24 Quit mamarley (Remote host closed the connection) 04.26.15 Join mamarley [0] (~quassel@Lee-08-199.rh.ncsu.edu) 04.27.48 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@203.184.50.187) 04.28.59 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Turns our there is something about the position / whatever of Google music beta's offline cache that raaa doesn't like. 04.29.51 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Symlinking it to /sdcard/my documents qorkes fine and the database picked it up. 04.30.14 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *works fine, too. 04.39.42 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.39.45 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.39.53 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.39.54 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.40.04 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.41.42 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 04.44.19 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 04.44.32 Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 04.55.54 Join soap_ [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 05.01.01 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (~Saint]@122.63.160.106) 05.01.50 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05.13.24 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05.19.29 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Disconnected by services) 05.19.30 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@203.184.50.187) 05.19.59 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@122.63.160.106) 05.21.17 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Client Quit) 05.21.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.29.19 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@203.184.50.187) 05.30.01 Quit saratoga (Changing host) 05.30.02 Join saratoga [0] (9803ec71@rockbox/developer/saratoga) 05.34.07 Join soap__ [0] (~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com) 05.35.18 Quit soap_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 05.39.47 Join soap_ [0] (~soap@94.75.232.194) 05.39.53 Quit soap_ (Changing host) 05.39.53 Join soap_ [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 05.43.10 Quit soap__ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 05.44.33 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 05.55.10 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF3FB1.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.57.48 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 05.59.03 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06.16.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Cough...bitmap scrollbars with support for transparency, cough... 06.17.25 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Then, I could do an "Android " scrillbar :) 06.17.39 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Scrollbar, even. 06.18.22 # bitmap scrollbars "should" work with skinned lists 06.18.27 # %LB 06.19.44 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Hmmmmmm. Can I *just* specify a scrollbar in the ui viewport and let the core draw the lists? 06.20.05 # I cant remember, I dont tinhk it's hooked up to work 06.20.30 # offline cache not working is pretty curious though... 06.20.37 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Also, does it respect the scrollbar configuration settings? I can't force it in the default theme. 06.20.54 # if you've got the sim going it would be worth recreating the directory structure and seeing if it barfs 06.21.05 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I'd like to do it this way, but it needs to respect the scrollbar settings. 06.21.05 # nope 06.21.52 # my view is that themes should completly ignore user settings, possibly add some configuration in the form of skin vars/settings but ignore the inbuilt settings 06.21.58 Quit Bagder (Remote host closed the connection) 06.22.10 # <[Saint_AndChat]> JdGordon: it worked qhen I symlinked it to another location 06.22.18 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Really: offline cache. 06.22.26 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *re 06.22.47 # right, so its probaly the foo.blaa.google.sutip.derrrr.here path :) 06.23.32 # <[Saint_AndChat]> That was my initial thought, but I was told that wouldn't be it by the db gurus. 06.23.59 # hook up the debugger and see what happens, i.e trust noone! 06.24.36 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ill poke it in a similar tonight, and hope I get some decent debug output. 06.24.56 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I suspect u should if I enable metadata logging. 06.25.01 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *I 06.25.21 # yep, that could very quickly tell you whats happening 06.25.26 # you could even do that now :) 06.25.49 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I can sethe problem is, it doesn't barf, it just completely ignores this sir. 06.25.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *sir 06.26.00 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Bah! 06.26.07 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Dir 06.27.38 # my db creation just gave up at 35537 files... 06.27.54 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I didn't try just renaming it yet. Ill try that on MT phone bow after I put something back in the cache. 06.28.08 # <[Saint_AndChat]> *my phone. 06.28.19 # grr... no metadata log file created 06.29.33 # <[Saint_AndChat]> 06.47.42 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 07.05.40 # i'm trying to compile my .S function and .c testdriver, whats the gcc command for the .S files 07.05.50 # or is it smart enough to figure out what to do from the file extension 07.21.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.27.18 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Remote host closed the connection) 07.36.02 # saratoga: usually it is 07.36.35 # saratoga: -x c is to force C syntax, don't know what you need to pass instead of 'c' for assembler 07.37.24 Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@203.184.50.187) 07.43.36 Quit beta2k (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07.59.45 Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07.59.59 Join bieber [0] (~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) 08.05.52 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@g228128127.adsl.alicedsl.de) 08.10.02 Quit powell14ski (Quit: powell14ski) 08.10.24 Join Jak_o_Shadows [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) 08.23.35 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.26.13 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 08.45.38 # I repaired a iPod nano 2g theme 08.46.08 # I was wondering, I have some files with UTF-8 characters in their names, how can I display them with RockBox? 08.46.24 # use a font with the needed glyphs 08.46.45 Join antil33t| [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 08.46.46 # erm, ok, but I don't quite know which font that would be 08.46.47 Quit antil33t () 08.46.48 Quit antil33t| (Client Quit) 08.47.06 # http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/ 08.47.21 # oooh, nice 08.47.22 # thanks 08.47.24 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 08.48.23 # there is also a codepage setting but I'm not entirely sure when you need to fiddle with that and when you don't 08.48.39 # speaking of which, why is that in Display settings? surely its a system setting? 08.48.54 # New commit by 03zagor (r30605): Use another GNU mirror while kernel.org is down. 08.50.47 # r30605 build result: All green 08.51.14 # I just need my japanese songs to be displayed correctly ¯\(°_o)/¯ 08.51.34 # I need to change some fonts in my theme *grml* 08.52.01 # not necessarily 08.52.19 # most themes use the system font, so just change it in settings 08.52.50 Join Jak_o_Shadows1 [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) 08.53.40 # didn't help, I've chosen fonts with no coverage vor Kana 08.53.48 # and/or Kanji 08.53.50 # polemon: settings -> Display -> something 08.53.53 # I did 08.53.56 # didn't help 08.54.39 # default codepage is UTF-8 now 08.54.43 # * ukleinek wants a setting: utf-8 with latin1 fallback 08.54.45 Quit Jak_o_Shadows (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 08.54.51 # polemon: is it really utf-8? 08.54.55 # yes 08.55.59 Join ender` [0] (~ender@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.56.29 # hmm, we really should have a theme setting for "16pt font" instead of specifiying it in the skin file 08.58.13 # I think skins will need a preprocessor to do that in a sane way :) 08.59.20 # <[Saint]> "most themes use the system font"? 08.59.26 # [Saint]: what do you tihnk about a fonts definition file to do this? 08.59.47 # <[Saint]> come again? 08.59.49 # so you'd use %FL(16-custom) which would look up that file to egt the actual font to use 09.00.10 # <[Saint]> What's wrong with the way its done now? 09.00.45 # someone might want to use a font which doesnt have the chars the font from the skin uses 09.00.48 # [Saint]: did you see that I posted a list spacing patch with setting? 09.01.39 # JdGordon: are we now making up use cases? or did someone really ask for this? 09.02.04 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: Then its simple enough (IMO) to edit the theme file if the theme is using additional fonts. 09.02.11 # <[Saint]> And if its not, its even simpler still. 09.02.27 # forcing the user to modify the theme sucks 09.02.32 # <[Saint]> Though...what's your proposal? 09.02.44 # <[Saint]> Wouldn;t they need to edit a font list, anyway? 09.02.54 # which is a once off thing 09.03.03 # <[Saint]> So's editing the theme ;) 09.03.20 # themes generally need to just specify the font height, the actual font comes down to personal preference 09.03.28 # ah but themes get overwritten 09.04.37 # <[Saint]> How would this work with themes that *do* define an additonal font, or fonts? 09.04.45 # <[Saint]> That gets ignored? 09.05.23 # potentially yes 09.05.26 # though probably not 09.05.40 # IMO the font is part of the theme 09.06.11 # just look at gevaerts' medieval theme 09.06.50 # <[Saint]> I'm of the same opinion, but, I wouldn;t mind a way to specify multiple fonts, and offer a way to choose between them. 09.07.24 # <[Saint]> a theme is useless if the font doesn't have the chars needed for 09.07.55 # the obvious solution is that the language must be part of the theme, too :-) 09.08.10 # ah, or fix the font 09.08.16 # <[Saint]> ...that's effen stupid, sorry ukleinek ;) 09.08.18 # yes! especially considering rtl langs :) 09.08.48 # [Saint]: yes, the theme is useless without the required glphys, and yes using a different font will change the look, but pretty sure users would go for the latter given the options 09.08.52 # <[Saint]> lang specific themes is just....well, yes. lets not go there ;) 09.09.00 # ok, I switched the fonts in my theme, that cover my glyph supplement! 09.09.03 # all is good now! 09.09.31 # GNU Unifont is quite awesome! 09.09.43 # <[Saint]> and UGLY! ;) 09.09.51 # <[Saint]> and *massive*. 09.10.10 # well, just for track title, it´s OK 09.10.35 # I use Nimbus wherever I display small latin letters and numerals only 09.11.25 # And I have to use Sazanami-Mincho 09.11.43 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: I'm still not sure how this would work. How would the font be selected? 09.11.43 # and remember to not update the theme :) 09.11.45 # which isn't exactly a nice font either, but it supports my glyph supplement 09.12.14 # JdGordon: It's actually an old, broken theme 09.12.39 # I made it work correctly again, something changed with the theme api in the last year or two, obviouslz 09.12.56 # <[Saint]> several somethings. 09.12.56 # and some old themes for iPod nano 2g don't work anymore 09.13.03 # * [Saint] assumes this is a touchscreen theme? 09.13.09 # [Saint]: probably a "set as favorite" context menu item which would write it to the custom_font.txt file, then themes would just use %FL() 09.13.12 # nope 09.13.20 # it was called nClix 09.13.56 # I plan to repair at least Electric Bars Of Colour and Cabbiev 3 09.14.25 # you guys should better work on porting RockBox to newer iPod nano's ;) 09.14.39 # this would of course rely on the user not being a dunce and selecting a 48-pt font for their 16-pt favorite :) 09.15.14 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: Changing the size of the font can fuck up a theme massively. I'd go for being able to select different fotns of the same height, but being able to specifiy a different height is a broken idea IMO. 09.15.28 # <[Saint]> I know this can be done now with some themes, but a smart themer can prevent this. 09.15.32 # you've misunderstodd my suggestion 09.16.19 # the theme shold say "Use a 16pt font, i dont care which, just pick one", the user choose "16-wingdings", it magically works 09.16.48 # people! 09.16.54 # not here... no 09.16.55 # swtich to open type fonts! 09.17.16 # Linux-Libertine and Linux-Biolinum! 09.17.22 # <[Saint]> Well, the theme should say "use this specific font, of this size, but allow fonts of to be put in its place". 09.17.41 # same thing 09.17.42 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@giant.haxx.se) 09.17.42 # <[Saint]> * 09.17.55 # that could be added completly transparently 09.18.41 # and with special handling for bold also 09.19.04 # <[Saint]> It could be useful, but, I can't think of a sane way to deal with themes that use multiple different fonts of the same height. 09.19.24 # <[Saint]> I guess it'd just need to replace them all. 09.19.37 # <[Saint]> Otherwise it'd get far too complex. 09.19.46 # true 09.20.00 # most places the font is used the actual style doesnt matter 09.20.14 # %FL could get a "FORCE" param to bypass the magic 09.20.47 # <[Saint]> kugel: Whoops, sorry...highlight doesn't appear to be working. What params does this setting have? 09.21.02 # <[Saint]> A simple on/off, or a value? 09.21.23 # * [Saint] would prefer the latter, personally. 09.21.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.22.02 # <[Saint]> Something like: "Settings - Display Settings - List Padding: 0,1,2,3,4..." 09.22.48 # auto, off, 2,4,6,... 09.23.34 # <[Saint]> Right, cool. I've no problems with it. I missed you pasting the patch I'm afraid. Sorry about that. 09.23.51 # <[Saint]> My main concerns were it being a: forced, and b: non-configurable. 09.24.06 # <[Saint]> Neither of those are an issue now. 09.24.56 # [Saint]: http://pastie.org/2590041 09.27.39 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 09.32.43 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 09.33.47 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 09.40.18 Join webguest43 [0] (~7ca8bd97@www.haxx.se) 09.40.50 Quit webguest43 (Client Quit) 09.45.10 Join God_Eater [0] (93722cc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.114.44.201) 09.45.39 Quit God_Eater (Changing host) 09.45.39 Join God_Eater [0] (93722cc9@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 09.45.56 # <[Saint]> kugel: Did you have any more feedback for me regarding the last .zip I got you to test? 09.46.23 # <[Saint]> I'll be switching around some font alignment shortly, and putting a new version on the tracker this evening. 09.46.49 # there was something... 09.47.15 # ah yes, the rew/ffwd buttons don't do rew/ffwd. they move the cursor in the list 09.47.37 # <[Saint]> By tonight I should (hopefully) have the niggles in the graphics for your port sorted out (they were jsut quick resized images, for testing's sake), and have the titlebar using the .lang strings. 09.48.17 # <[Saint]> Oh...whoops, yes. I thought I disabled that. There was some reason why (you'd have to ask JdGordon) FFWD/REW isn't possible in the .sbs 09.48.34 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: ^? 09.49.07 # for the graphics, IMO the grey of the image's background is a bit too light. I know there's two versions of the grey over all cabbie images 09.49.37 # <[Saint]> Maybe that's a legacy, and its simply not enabled, I'm not sure. But the touch actions for FFWD/REW shouldn't be there. I'll remove them. 09.49.40 # IIRC ffwd/rew actions were added 09.50.29 # <[Saint]> FFWD/REW has never worked in the .sbs to my knowledge. 09.50.35 # wps_prev/wps_next 09.51.01 # <[Saint]> That's the one's I'm using. 09.51.07 # that should work for skipping, not seeking at least 09.51.11 # <[Saint]> and they move the cursor. 09.51.14 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 09.51.23 # then it's buggy I guess 09.51.59 # <[Saint]> Its never worked for seeking, I seem to recall there being a reason for this described to me. I'm not sure if its still valid though. 09.52.18 # i think you can only seek in the wps 09.52.29 # but skip works everywhere 09.53.27 Join Jak_o_Shadows [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) 09.54.01 # [Saint]: GodEater made some comments about your theme 09.54.19 # <[Saint]> Also, when you say "the backgroud images", I take it you mean the "off/unused" state for the icons such as FFWD/REW (when stopped), shuffle, repeat, etc. ? 09.54.35 # fwiw, I find the titlebar a waste of space 09.55.12 # <[Saint]> better used by....? Its needed for the softlock, also. 09.55.29 # an additional list item 09.55.33 # or even two 09.55.34 Quit Jak_o_Shadows1 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09.56.17 # softlock is also rather useless as you mentioned yourself several times :) 09.56.50 # <[Saint]> Its quite useful. 09.56.53 # it's ok in the wps. but IMO not needed in the menus 09.57.03 # <[Saint]> that's good, its not in the menus ;) 09.57.07 # <[Saint]> you should know that. 09.57.13 Quit Scromple (Quit: Leaving) 09.57.36 # <[Saint]> When and where did God_Eater comment about the theme? 09.57.39 # I meant the titlebar 09.57.48 # <[Saint]> Its not on the tracker, so, I'll ignore it for now ;) 09.59.18 # the titlebar is ok in the wps, but IMO not needed in the menus (just so it's clear) 09.59.27 Quit MethoS- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09.59.46 # <[Saint]> Its needed as a button, you didn't think of that. 09.59.56 # what button? 10.00.00 # [Saint]: my comments were "I've not used it" - do you *want* me to put that in the tracker? It doesn't seem right to do so to be honest. 10.00.00 # <[Saint]> its actually two buttons. 10.00.42 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: Apologies, kugel made it seem as though you'd said something of importance. 10.00.51 # God_Eater: oh sorry, I misinterpreted "not since the first time I tried it and didn't like the WPS changes" then :) 10.01.37 # <[Saint]> I was fairly certain you did some initial testing for me... 10.01.38 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 10.01.56 # [Saint]: I tried it *once* 10.01.56 # [Saint]: isnt the region action wps_next/prev there? 10.02.00 # or something like that? 10.02.27 # [Saint]: it seems to do the same as the standard titlebar 10.02.30 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: Yeah, but in the .sbs it moves the cursor. 10.02.34 # the point I was making to kugel was you seemed to have said to him that my lack of feedback to you was indicative of me accepting some feature or other of your theme. 10.02.38 # wps_next shouldnt 10.02.50 # and I was saying "it can't be - because the reason I've said nothing is because I've barely used it" 10.03.47 # <[Saint]> kugel: Its quickscreen, and menu. 10.04.16 # <[Saint]> without it, you'd be fucked for a quickscreen and a way to get back to the main menu if you had no HW keys. 10.04.19 # it's not quick screen 10.04.25 # not in this version at least 10.04.43 # and the standard titlebar does menu 10.04.46 # [Saint]: yeah wps_next and wps_prev 10.04.58 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: that's what I'm using. 10.05.06 # <[Saint]> they only move the cursor in the .sbs 10.05.21 # I don't believe you 10.05.29 # :) 10.05.35 # <[Saint]> Try it ;) 10.06.21 # [Saint]: in my sbs you use prev/rew 10.06.36 # ffwd/rew* 10.06.48 # [Saint]: short press of << and >> work fine for me :) ) 10.06.52 # -) 10.06.54 # <[Saint]> well, that's an error. Apoligies. 10.07.10 # <[Saint]> right, so that explains that. 10.07.28 # long press moves the cursor though 10.07.56 # <[Saint]> Just so I'm clear, is FFWD/REW expected to work in the .sbs? 10.08.16 # <[Saint]> ...it'd be really nice if it did. 10.08.20 # no 10.08.29 # it can be added 10.08.35 # im not sure how easily thouhg 10.08.41 # <[Saint]> Right. 10.09.20 # <[Saint]> Its not essential, as there'd be no easy way to see where you were seeking to/from, but, it'd be a nice feature. 10.09.59 # <[Saint]> I'd add a seek bar on ffwd/rew, but the UI viewport doesn't cope well with dynamic resizing. 10.10.27 # <[Saint]> It seems to need a fullscreen redraw to be triggered, or you get leftovers onscreen. 10.10.55 # I thought viewport.c clears leftovers 10.11.19 # * kugel wonders if [Saint] wants to comment on the menu/qs button remark 10.12.20 # <[Saint]> kugel: Whoops, I thought I did. It seems I copied it over from the .wps and forget to change the touchscreen area. It supposed to be quickscreen on long_press. 10.12.50 # <[Saint]> without that, there's no way to get to the quickscreen from the .sbs. 10.13.17 # so, the titlebar is just for the quickscreen? 10.13.35 # <[Saint]> quickscreen and return to main menu. 10.13.41 # could add that behavior to the stock list title 10.14.08 # the list title already does that. the list title icon even goes back 10.15.43 # JdGordon: I noticed yesterday that %ss doesn't seem to handle more than one tag inside it. I guess that's not easy to fix? 10.17.04 # what second trag do you want to use? 10.18.01 # I wanted to pad things, basically. I suspect I might want a "rotate this text" tag instead... 10.18.12 # gevaerts: i tinhk a better way to get another tags value is going to be needed, in general making one tag accept another is simple 10.18.23 # * gevaerts nods 10.19.09 # [Saint]: so if we added the quickscreen to the list title, the titlebar wouldnt be needed as button, right? 10.19.26 # A concatenate tag would be reasonably easy to do, but the question is if we want that. If we then get "proper" support, we end up with a *really* useless tag to keep around forever 10.20.25 # another one, you mean? :) 10.20.40 # <[Saint]> kugel: Technically, yes. But, I happen to quite like the titlebar and don't see the need for more room in the lists. Perhaps you do, as you seem to need gigantic lists as your monkey fingers can't seem to manipulate them ;) 10.20.58 # * kugel has tiny fingers 10.21.15 # kugel: most of the others provide a different way of doing things. This one would literally be "Strip it, and you won't notice the difference" 10.21.15 # gevaerts: you want to rot13 your tags? 10.21.30 # JdGordon: not rot13. Rotate the positions 10.22.42 # positions of what? 10.22.50 # What I was trying to do is put lots of scrolling lines under each other, in a one-character-wide viewport. If those scrolling lines have substrings of your string in them starting from increasing offsets, you get (for a while) a nice vertical scrolling text. The problem is that it gets out of sync because those substrings aren't the same length 10.23.17 # JdGordon: basically I want "rockbox" to become "ockboxr", or "ckboxro" 10.23.35 # you need to either share or stop smoking! 10.23.38 # Now of course this is really a dirty hack to achieve that goal... 10.23.54 # <[Saint]> I thought *I* was the king of dirty hacks. 10.24.04 # <[Saint]> but, that's a pretty good one GeekShadow ;) 10.24.13 # <[Saint]> errr, gevaerts even. 10.25.05 # http://www.evonet.be/~gevaerts/test.zip 10.25.11 # For c200, sbs only 10.25.30 # Graphics are *ugly* 10.25.49 # <[Saint]> Couldn't you do it *just* with alternating sublines, and no other magic? 10.26.43 # <[Saint]> yes, yes you could. 10.28.55 # <[Saint]> You'd need 7 alternating sublines, in a one px wide viewport. 10.29.09 # JdGordon: that reminds me, scrolling and skinned lists behave weirdly together I think 10.29.21 # I need to investigate a bit further though 10.29.30 # need more input 10.30.48 # Yes, I know. I just wanted to warn you of a possible upcoming bug report :) I haven't ruled out user error yet 10.40.48 # <[Saint]> gevaerts: http://pastebin.com/fmryAYiz 10.40.55 # <[Saint]> alternating sublines, no other magic. 10.41.54 # <[Saint]> (just fixed a small error) 10.42.11 # * [Saint] likes getting bash to work out things for him. 10.42.41 # <[Saint]> unless I'm *really* mistaken, that should do exactly what you want it to do. 10.43.04 # <[Saint]> it would be trivial to reverse the order, also. 10.45.21 # <[Saint]> I may, or may not, have messed it up, I'l admit to not having tested it...but you can see what I'm going for. 10.46.50 # there, I've wanted to express that for a while and now I said it! 10.48.50 # <[Saint]> http://pastebin.com/hAz0j4LA <-- gevaerts 10.49.20 # <[Saint]> That should actually work properly. I missed a line, to add the space. 10.52.27 # *why*? 10.54.41 # <[Saint]> It needs no additional magic, or yet another additional tag to achieve. 10.55.19 # <[Saint]> I think sometimes people need to look at ways of doing things with what they have, when its already possible, rather than adding a milion tags ;) 10.55.54 # <[Saint]> There may be a smiley there, but I'm completely serious. 11.00.00 # <[Saint]> there was a theme, many moons ago. A text only theme called "ROFLcopter (iirc) that did something incredibly similar....with the entire screen. 11.05.22 # Zagor: the new download link for gcc-core 404s 11.06.22 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11.06.24 # looks like there's a /releases/ missing in the path 11.06.34 # Lalufu: thanks, checking 11.06.54 Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11.13.34 # when making themes, is it OK, to package the fonts I need with the theme? 11.13.59 # depends on the license of the font 11.14.54 # it's one of the fonts that's avilable with the RockBox font packs 11.14.56 Quit [7] (Remote host closed the connection) 11.15.25 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 11.15.34 # polemon: that should be fine then 11.15.40 # ok, great 11.16.08 # I just want to make sure, the theme is displayed correctly, etc... 11.19.17 # <[Saint]> Its not advised to do so. 11.19.44 # <[Saint]> The fonts get updated, and if a user installs the font pack, then your theme, it may downgrade the font. 11.19.47 # <[Saint]> so, don't. 11.20.08 # <[Saint]> Just advise in the comments that the fontpack is needed for the theme to function. 11.20.25 # on the topic of silly themes... there is a clip theme with pacman as the progressbar 11.20.30 # it is *AWESOME* 11.20.51 # <[Saint]> polemon: ^ 11.21.03 # <[Saint]> (that was for you, btw, I forgot to highlight you) 11.21.32 # <[Saint]> SO yes, please don't include the fonts in your theme if they are already part of the fontpack. 11.21.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.22.55 # the themesite rejects it if it is in the fontpack iirc 11.23.05 # <[Saint]> AH, good to know. 11.23.29 # <[Saint]> Guess he'll find out if he hasn't seen my post already. 11.28.54 # Zagor: I've been saying from the begining that RaaA doesnt make much sense and concentrating on splitting the playback engine out and putting a native ui on the top of that makes much more sense 11.28.58 # but bleh 11.29.19 # I agree with that 11.29.44 # wtachi's gsoc should have kick started that but apparently didnt get much interest 11.29.56 # Isn't that why we had that GSoC? 11.30.01 # JdGordon: is he done? 11.30.02 # For projects more or less like that? 11.30.31 # it's a monolith task, pretty much. before there's a basic lib there's not much anyone else can do. 11.30.34 # <[Saint]> Even after the split...someone still needs to do the native UI. 11.30.42 # Zagor: iiuc he got pretty far but seems to have dissapeared 11.30.43 # <[Saint]> And I never saw/heard anyone step up for that. 11.33.35 # <[Saint]> "Perhaps a reasonable middle ground is to release the current android app on our homepage, for manual installation by early adopters." <-- I'd like to see that. 11.33.38 # [Saint]: well it becomes a lot more interesting once it *can* be done. investing a lot of work speculatively is not that fun. 11.34.08 # <[Saint]> Without blowing my own horn (I know there's room for improvement) I think the only reason a user would get a poor opinion of Rockbox is if it were to not include my theme work. 11.34.36 # <[Saint]> I'm the first to admit it looks like ass without it. 11.34.59 # where do I download it? 11.35.06 # <[Saint]> The tracker. 11.35.15 # <[Saint]> One sec. 11.35.47 # <[Saint]> Zagor: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12254 11.36.02 # <[Saint]> I have 240x320, 320x480, and 480x800 ports. 11.36.26 # what happened about wtachi? 11.36.33 # <[Saint]> I'm approximately an hour or so away from posting a reasonably large cleanup of images and code. 11.36.39 # neither he or his mentor said anything about the outcome of his project 11.37.15 Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11.37.37 # <[Saint]> I was under the impression he'd finished. 11.37.45 # <[Saint]> (the project, I mean) 11.38.23 # <[Saint]> Guess I was mistaken. I seem to recall that he had success in splitting out the playback engine. 11.39.21 # thats what i understood too 11.39.48 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11.42.33 Join dfkt|n [0] (dfktn@unaffiliated/dfkt) 11.46.42 # most of his work is not comitted however 11.47.04 # whether or not he was successful is determined, why can't anyone just make a statement? 11.47.36 # * [Saint] parse fails. 11.48.34 # <[Saint]> kugel: Are you going to commit the configurable list spacing? 11.48.50 # i wanted to put it on the tracker first 11.49.02 # <[Saint]> Ah, right. Fair enough. 11.49.31 # where can i find a .apk to try? 11.49.48 # <[Saint]> One second LinusN 11.49.55 # rasher.dk/rockbox/ 11.49.58 # ah 11.49.59 # <[Saint]> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12254 11.50.02 # <[Saint]> Awww... 11.50.04 # <[Saint]> ;) 11.50.05 # If i see the following in an objdump of an ARM object file, what does the ! signify? 11.50.08 # 54: e5a4200c str r2, [r4, #12]! 11.50.22 # <[Saint]> http://rasher.dk/rockbox/android/ 11.50.32 # <[Saint]> right, correct link ;) 11.50.42 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 11.51.24 # Lalufu: I think post increment of r4, but you better google for it 11.51.47 Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@247.203.120.78.rev.sfr.net) 11.53.32 # [Saint]: I agree, your theme makes a huge difference 11.53.46 # <[Saint]> Thanks, I appreciate that immensely. 11.54.07 # FWIW, I think I'm in kugel's camp: release the darn thing already on the market 11.54.29 # I think the button row is too cramped though. I'd prefer just << || >> there and have repeat and shuffle on the wps only 11.54.38 Join Jak_o_Shadows1 [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) 11.54.50 # agreed 11.54.52 # I think we need to ignore the risk of ruining the first impression and instead try to get more eyes and users 11.54.54 # and ideally volume as a popup, the android way. 11.55.12 # noo... we dont want users, especially not android users :'( 11.55.23 # <[Saint]> I'd like to do it as a popup also, but the UI viewport doesn't like being drawn over. 11.55.30 # well, users that write java apps for android =) 11.55.39 # and who wants to fix our minor quirks 11.57.02 Quit Jak_o_Shadows (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11.57.14 # <[Saint]> Am I really the only one that thinks playback control shouldn't be limited to the .wps only? 11.57.18 # <[Saint]> *shrug* 11.57.32 # kugel: reading further down the code you seem to be right. #12 is implicitly added to r4 11.57.36 # <[Saint]> I'm irked by the fact that you can't seek in the .sbs 11.57.43 # now that's a neat trick. 11.57.45 # [Saint]: I'm worried about accidental presses 11.57.48 # [Saint]: no, I like the << || >> buttons being everywhere. I just don't thing shuffle and repeat needs to. 11.59.06 # shuffle and repeat needn't even be in the wps if you ask me 11.59.08 # note to self: throw away my crappy HTC Desire 11.59.08 # we need to fix some strings too. "Reboot to enable" isn't a useful instruction from the database 11.59.40 # Zagor: I have a patch somewhere to make it work without reboot 11.59.41 # <[Saint]> LinusN: You can throw it in my direction, I just bricked my Galaxy today ;) 11.59.50 # kugel: commit! :) 11.59.59 # just need to mature the other "reclaim free buflib space for audio" before 12.00.01 # [Saint]: ouch 12.00.16 # <[Saint]> The joys of custom ROMs :D 12.07.35 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 12.13.02 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 12.26.00 Quit Jak_o_Shadows1 (Remote host closed the connection) 12.33.05 Quit dfkt|n (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12.34.14 Join casainho [0] (~chatzilla@pal-213-228-181-14.netvisao.pt) 12.49.21 # when I want to submit a theme, do I have to make the screenschots myself? 12.49.31 # <[Saint]> Yes. 12.49.37 # drat! 12.49.50 # <[Saint]> There's a screenshot function in ROckbox. 12.50.02 # O_O 12.50.06 # where? 12.50.07 # <[Saint]> Just enable it, and it'll take a screenshot whever you plug USB 12.50.21 # <[Saint]> Its in the Debug (Keep Out!) menu 12.50.33 # ah, never looked in there before 12.54.58 # were there iPod nano's 2g with FM tuners? 12.55.07 # <[Saint]> No. 12.55.36 # <[Saint]> Not built in, anyway. None of the Nanos had FM until the 4G 12.57.02 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 12.59.56 Join dfkt|n [0] (dfktn@unaffiliated/dfkt) 13.14.17 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 13.15.24 # [Saint]: perhaps you can play with the patch's auto setting to get a spacing which is reasonable for you 13.16.09 # in list.c there's a forumla (dpi*4/11). I made it so it's comparable to androids item size 13.18.04 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure its possible to do so for all devices. 13.18.59 # <[Saint]> for 240x320, to fit the main menu in without scrolling it, you pretty much want no padding at all with a 28px font. 13.19.09 # <[Saint]> (and that's very usable for me also) 13.19.25 # fit with or without your theme? 13.19.41 # <[Saint]> the later 13.19.46 # <[Saint]> *latter too. 13.21.43 # that can't be true 13.22.00 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.22.33 # you have 40px per item (320px / 7 items + 1 list title) 13.23.07 # but with my patch there's probably scrolling indeed 13.24.17 # <[Saint]> Yes, I was talking about with your patch. Not without. 13.24.37 # <[Saint]> the UI viewport for 240x320 is ~270px iirc 13.25.26 Quit zu (Read error: Operation timed out) 13.25.33 Quit feisar- (Read error: Operation timed out) 13.25.39 # without your theme there is no ui viewport 13.26.23 # <[Saint]> Right...but it looks like ass. 13.26.30 Join zu [0] (~zu@ks355000.kimsufi.com) 13.26.39 # <[Saint]> No, sorry, it looks like concentrated ass. 13.26.56 # :? 13.27.23 Join feisar- [0] (jljhook@ihq.in) 13.27.57 # anyway, this patch isnt about how it looks 13.29.10 # <[Saint]> What's the default setting, of you inteded patch? 13.29.20 # * [Saint] crosses his fingers and hopes for "off". 13.29.44 # <[Saint]> errr, "0", rather. 13.30.28 # auto of course 13.30.43 # <[Saint]> Please no. 13.30.43 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f048174074.adsl.alicedsl.de) 13.30.44 # I don' 13.30.54 # I don't make a usability patch and default to unusable 13.31.08 # <[Saint]> Let the theme handle it, and let users use this setting *if* they don't think its sufficient. 13.31.27 # the patch has no means to let themes not handle it 13.32.07 # <[Saint]> by :let the theme handle it", I mean, let the spacing provided by the theme be the "default", and the setting off. 13.32.17 # <[Saint]> Users can change the setting *if* they want/need to. 13.32.48 # I don't make a usability patch and default to unusable 13.33.00 # <[Saint]> If its committed before the theme is (almost certainly will be), then fine. When the theme's committed, it needs to default off. 13.33.04 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 13.33.09 # it's NOT a theme issue 13.33.20 # <[Saint]> As it seriously fucks up the look of the theme. 13.33.32 # <[Saint]> and yes, it is a theme issue. 13.33.45 Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13.33.59 # <[Saint]> Its a setting for if the theme isn;t sufficient for some...I fail to see why you can't see that. 13.34.28 # <[Saint]> the theme provides list spacing, the core shouldn;t add additional spacing by default. 13.34.33 # <[Saint]> its just wrong to do so. 13.34.33 # I still have massive reservations against this patch... but what the fuck does my opinion matter? 13.34.46 # seen as im th eonly one doing active ui work 13.35.04 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: I do too...but, I'm not going to win against it not getting in, so I need to at least be happy with it. 13.36.36 # [Saint]: the core should be usable by default. no spacing is unusable for me 13.36.48 # *for me* 13.36.56 # * [Saint] nods 13.36.57 # since when are you the only user thaat matters? 13.37.05 # he isn't the only one 13.37.08 # I agree with him 13.37.26 # JdGordon: I remember you saying too that the lists are too small in svn 13.37.50 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: Didn't you say "that's hideous" when my theme and that patch conflicted? 13.38.04 # [Saint]: but I also don't like how your theme looks without it 13.38.09 # <[Saint]> I assumed that's what you were referrign to. 13.38.13 # it's still too cramped 13.38.36 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: Right, I think it should default to off, and let a user specify the spacing if needed. 13.38.43 # no 13.38.49 # absolutely not 13.38.54 # it should default to auto, if it 13.38.55 # that means the default is unusable 13.38.56 # <[Saint]> I just don't think it should default to auto, you saw what that looks like. 13.39.11 # it's too big the user can fine tune the padding 13.39.15 # yes, but at least it's usable then 13.39.23 # in fact, it should even default to "somewhat similar to android" 13.39.31 # yah 13.39.52 # Ideally I'd like the font to match the default Android one too 13.40.08 # then make a default theme which duplicates the android music app 13.40.09 # perhaps things look less ugly with an item separator 13.40.59 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: I did that, with the font, and got shot the *flying* fuck down. 13.41.15 # not that I find no-padding any more beatiful than auto padding 13.41.20 # <[Saint]> "its a ugly font, get rid of it" 13.41.27 # <[Saint]> "its the same as Android" 13.41.36 # <[Saint]> "I don;t care, its ugly, get rid of it" 13.41.37 # Ugly in the context of cabbie v2 ? 13.41.56 # it's not the same, it's a lot larger since you need it larger to be able to select items 13.42.02 # <[Saint]> Pass. I got that feedback for 3 or 4 people. 13.42.18 # <[Saint]> kugel: No, its not the same, now. Very observant ;) 13.42.21 # 3 or 4 peoples != "shot the flying fuck down" 13.42.46 # <[Saint]> It does when that was the entire testing base of the time bar one. 13.43.02 # this is what's wrong with this project 13.43.14 # when cabbiev2 was developed there were a LOT of people working on it 13.43.19 # not just one 13.43.38 # <[Saint]> Do you know how many times I've asked for help? Its a joke! 13.43.41 # if you're trying to do the default theme for RaaA I'd probably have chosen to start from scratch 13.43.47 # <[Saint]> I'd fucking *love* help. 13.43.57 # where have you asked? 13.44.00 # oh? I was hoping you'd say "loud opiniated people get their way, regardless of their level of contribution" :/ 13.44.44 # <[Saint]> I've asked here several times whenever people said "So, when's port going to be ready" 13.44.55 # <[Saint]> Everyone's been quite happy to sit back and leave it to me. 13.45.01 # yes, the cabbiev2 effort was co-ordinated out of the forums 13.45.04 # not IRC 13.45.11 # as bascially bugger all themers hang out here 13.45.16 # [Saint]: whenever I asked you you just said "soon, i 13.45.20 # I'm busy atm" 13.46.09 # <[Saint]> I didn't ask you, no. I assumed if you cared about the themes we wouldn;t have the current joke of a touchscreen default theme. 13.46.22 # God_Eater: but with cabbiev2 we had usable ports to develop on :) 13.46.26 # ouch - not called for 13.46.33 # kugel: also true :) 13.47.03 # [Saint]: take it down a notch please, if kugel hadn't already worked his ass of there wouldn't BE an RaaA. 13.47.29 # <[Saint]> It may be badly worded, but there's been no effort to fix the *badly* broken svn theme. 13.47.38 # <[Saint]> that's all I meant. 13.47.48 # yes, but that's not kugel's fault 13.47.57 # <[Saint]> Errrr... 13.47.58 # * kugel wonders in which way it's badly broken 13.48.13 # yeah, and it's really not that badly broken 13.48.16 # I use it just fine since ever 13.48.19 # it works quite nicely with the list spacing patch 13.48.30 # <[Saint]> the FFWD/REW pops up whenever you touch the screen anywhere, overtop of the logo, for one. 13.48.35 # "with this patch" != svn 13.48.44 # Zagor: I realise that 13.49.00 # Zagor: true, but [Saint]'s effort isn't solving this one 13.49.02 # it's not the same as saying it's badly broken without it either 13.49.12 # kugel: it does for me 13.49.13 # the WPS works perfectly fine 13.49.24 # it's only the menus which are too small 13.49.27 # Zagor: really? how? 13.49.39 # <[Saint]> Thankyou, Zagor. Thankyou. 13.49.40 # bigger font? 13.49.47 # I think the svn code is massively better with his theme than the default 13.50.25 # is/works/looks 13.50.35 # :\ 13.50.47 # Zagor: we're specifically not talking about looks 13.50.56 # I am 13.51.13 # <[Saint]> Zagor: Do you find the lists usable? 13.51.18 # looks is vital for an android app 13.51.18 # I don't disagree that it looks better 13.51.35 # my concern is usability, 13.51.42 # [Saint]: I do, yes 13.51.48 # <[Saint]> Thankyou. 13.52.16 # <[Saint]> Which is why I think this intended spacing patch should default off. 13.52.17 # there are still things to do, of course. but I'm much more optimistic about releasing on Market after trying [saint]'s theme 13.52.38 # so, I 13.52.41 # <[Saint]> Oh yes, I'm the first to admit it needs a lot more work. I'm getting there, though. 13.52.54 # I'm not surprised the list is more usable with a bigger font 13.53.21 # one quirky thing is that settings such as treble don't show the setting once you scroll the list 13.53.31 # I mean the current setting 13.54.02 # <[Saint]> that's...interesting. 13.54.09 # Zagor: you don't think the list should scale out to fill the screen then? 13.54.15 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure how its possible for a theme to break that. 13.54.56 # God_Eater: vertically? no, I don't think that's important 13.55.23 # I count 12 lines in the list. that's already more than most android file managers I've tried. 13.56.02 # <[Saint]> all ports should have between 11~13 slots in the list unless my math is bad. 13.59.14 # Zagor: perhaps scale isn't quite the right word 13.59.31 # but I believe if we want wide android market adoption, our lists should look as much like android ones as possible. 14.00.00 # <[Saint]> In that case, we need line seperators, and Setting sublists. 14.00.16 # <[Saint]> I'd be for that. 14.00.50 # as long as they behave as an android user expects, I'm not so sure it matters if the pixels are a little different. 14.01.13 # yes, I don't think we need to implement them as native android ui controls just yet 14.01.19 # although I'd still like to see that eventually 14.01.20 # <[Saint]> A blurb in a smaller font describing a settings function/state would be a good thing for a labrinthing menus IMO. 14.01.42 # <[Saint]> *labrinthine 14.01.52 # I also wish we didn't hide the status bar in android, but I've no idea if that's deliberate or something that's a function of running an NDK app like ours 14.02.22 # <[Saint]> it uses sysfont, so, its pretty much unusable on even the 240x320 port 14.02.35 # no, the android status bar 14.02.44 # <[Saint]> Ah, right. 14.02.55 # yeah, I want to see if new emails have come in etc. 14.03.10 # yea, we should work with it, but it's not nice for themes 14.03.22 # yeah, that would be nice. yay, yet another dimension for themes... :-) 14.03.23 # trying to emulate the android lists is a waste of time 14.03.33 # and by the way, it can already be done with svn 14.03.57 # <[Saint]> setting sublists would need to be hardcoded, though. 14.04.00 # why is it a waste of time? 14.04.16 # [Saint]: setting sublists? 14.04.35 # you mean inline settings? - which was on my plate to work on? 14.04.47 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: The small blurb that describes a settings function and/or state in Android. 14.05.03 # <[Saint]> And yes, I remember now you thought about working on that. 14.05.07 # yeah, we could add that if it were really wanted 14.05.22 # <[Saint]> It'd be nice for new users. 14.05.34 # once again, *with SVN* you can exactly copy the android lists with a theme 14.05.41 # oh right, thats too much work 14.05.57 # (exactly minus the scroll bar thing, but that too is on my todo list) 14.06.23 # * JdGordon randomly points out that his todo list isnt going to happen if his current motivation levels doesnt severly rise 14.06.38 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure how we'd translate the "inline settigns" (is this what they're called?) though. 14.06.41 # it'll just get moved to Mr Someone's 14.06.59 # in theory 14.07.07 # <[Saint]> Its so hard not to burst out laughing at that. 14.07.20 # <[Saint]> Mr. Someone hasn't been very active lately ;) 14.07.25 # he never is 14.08.06 # I think painstakingly making a pixel-perfect emulation of android 2.3 is a waste of time. 14.08.28 # nobody wants to do that 14.08.36 # <[Saint]> I also like the fact that Rockbox is Rockbox, and Android is Android, personally. 14.08.41 # sounds like you want to get retty damn close 14.08.55 # yeah, or settings are a bit arcane and strange. but we're not alone in android-land with that. most games have their own weird settings too. 14.09.16 # * kugel wonders how we went from "somewhat similar" to "emulate/clone" 14.11.11 # [Saint]: the problem is inviting new users to it, if it's "too much like rockbox and too little like android" 14.11.53 Join pondlife [0] (~Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) 14.12.06 # it has to look good, and work intuitively (i.e. similar to other apps in android). it doesn't have to look perfectly native imho. 14.12.43 # * JdGordon slaps Zagor 14.12.50 # you're not allowd to use the word intuitive 14.12.56 # its a nonesense word! 14.13.02 # no it's not 14.13.04 # pondlife: long time no see! 14.13.12 # in this context it means "without surprises" 14.13.22 # he must have been reading the logs, and is going to wade in with his wisdom ;) 14.13.30 # * God_Eater waves to pondlife too 14.13.39 # Hi guys 14.13.58 # and probably also wants to know "Where is my H340?" :) 14.14.01 # ;) 14.14.40 # Zagor: intuition is nonsense... ill give my phone to my not-yet-5 year old nephew who has never used an mp3 player and he'll figure out how to play music in rockbox 14.14.44 # It'd be nice...but I can still run an H340 sim 14.15.02 # JdGordon: yes, but give it to your 90 year old grannie and same thing won't happen 14.15.11 # 5 year olds are pretty adaptable 14.15.36 # thats not intuition, thats expectation which is very different 14.15.42 # android is different. android users expect apps to behave reasonably similarly 14.15.44 # not expectation... my english sucks tonight 14.16.16 # That's kind of why I dumped my first thoughts on using [Saint]'s theme (and indeed a recent Android port)... if you get used to something you can fail to see how unintuitive it is. 14.16.21 # anyway, in the context of the list spacing patch, it can already be done in the theme which is where it shold be done 14.16.57 # I'm more concerned with the Onda/Clip+ problem right now.. 14.17.18 # JdGordon: Have you traced any of this through? 14.17.45 # JdGordon: why needs everything needs to be done in themes now? 14.17.58 # themes have always been an extra, not mandatory 14.18.25 # JdGordon: Sorry, back in 20 14.18.33 # I disagree I need to find a suitable theme for something which clearly isn't a theme thing 14.20.25 # pondlife: no, I havnt looked into it at all, I've got side tracked and lost motivation to bother. It does affect the clipv1 which i can easily test with though, so maybe... 14.20.59 # <[Saint]> I happen to think that if the lists aren't usable, its the themes fault. If someone says "I can't press this button on my touchscreen theme" you don't adjust the core to suit it. 14.21.26 # <[Saint]> If my lists aren't usable, I'll damn well try to make them so. 14.21.41 # themes weren't even concerned with lists until a few days ago.. 14.22.06 # now it's entirely up to the theme? 14.22.13 # [Saint]: on the other hand, if you mistakenly wipe the rockbox dir it would be good to at least be able to navigate enough to select the new theme... 14.22.30 # with sysfont on 480x800 that is not easy at all 14.22.52 # doable with list spacing 14.23.11 # exactly 14.23.12 # Zagor: sysfont on any touch target is always not useable 14.23.21 # but dont they default to grid layout if that happens? 14.23.24 # <[Saint]> Zagor: Which is why I back kugels patch completely, but not for it to default on. There could be magic added that if the fallback theme is the only option, it defaults to "auto". 14.23.48 # any by the way.. list spacing isnt going to help with sysfont on android anyway 14.23.52 # [Saint]: what if the theme controls the setting? 14.23.54 # its still going to be impossibly small 14.24.10 # JdGordon: small to read, yes. but at least if would be selectable 14.24.14 # *it 14.24.18 # [Saint]: you toggle between supporting it and fighting against it in an amazingly quick fashion 14.24.24 # <[Saint]> Zagor: It can't, as far as I'm aware. 14.24.29 # Zagor: not without a capacative stylus 14.24.56 # <[Saint]> kugel: No, I support it. I *want* it to go in. I don't want it to default to on/auto, though. 14.25.01 # JdGordon: in that case I guess I don't understand what the spacing patch does 14.25.18 # Zagor: it does what you think 14.25.29 # you can use the thumb even with sysfont 14.26.10 # [Saint]: ok, but wouldn't that be a solution? default is on, to make core usable even with sysfont. but a theme can choose to override it? 14.27.15 # <[Saint]> If the theme overrides it, then a user wouldn;t be able to adjust it if they felt it wasn't enough. 14.27.32 # skin viewports need to completly disable it by default or it will break evry current theme 14.27.32 # <[Saint]> I want it to be a users choice. 14.27.57 # [Saint]: yes, but again: how can we make a "naked" core usable? 14.28.17 # it least usable enough to select a theme 14.28.20 # *at least 14.28.47 # <[Saint]> Zagor: It could default to auto if the failsafe is the only theme option available, /probably/. 14.29.01 # <[Saint]> I assume that magic could be added. 14.29.53 # this cant possibly work with themes in a user configurable way 14.30.01 # simply because the viewport confiuration is static 14.30.21 # <[Saint]> It may still be hard to use with failsafe and sysfont, though. As far as I'm aware the padding added isn't touch sensitive. It just spaces out the touch sensitive lines. 14.30.28 # and having themes not override the setting will break all existing themes 14.30.33 # <[Saint]> it'd probably still be pretty hard to hit a 12px line. 14.30.51 # <[Saint]> (depending on the target, of course) 14.31.00 # [Saint]: sure, but you wouldn't risk hitting the wrong one. 14.31.08 # <[Saint]> that's correct. 14.31.50 # kugel: would you agree the main focus is to get the failsafe/builtin theme usable? 14.32.07 # this and the default 14.32.10 # don 14.32.15 # 't care about other themes 14.32.36 Join beta2k [0] (~Beta2K@d24-36-128-84.home1.cgocable.net) 14.33.26 # <[Saint]> The default theme should do this *in the theme*, not with a core addon. 14.33.45 # %Sx() in themes is for translation, right? 14.33.51 # <[Saint]> If its not usable, its the theme's fault. And I'll try to address this. 14.33.56 # pondlife: yes 14.34.00 # <[Saint]> polemon: Correct. 14.34.11 # pondlife: err. i meant polemon 14.34.14 # it's not documented in CustomWPS... 14.34.19 # <[Saint]> the string needs to exist in english.lang 14.34.39 # <[Saint]> You can't translate arbitrary strings, of course ;) 14.34.41 # [Saint]: why? 14.34.55 # I also think it should be higher priority to make sure its never possible to get the failsafe theme 14.35.08 # <[Saint]> kugel: Why what? 14.35.15 # "not with a core addon. 14.35.27 # I don't see this as an objective 14.35.35 # <[Saint]> Because its the themes job to handle the UI. 14.35.51 # it seems nobody cares about iPod nano 2g themes anymore :( 14.35.54 # besides it doesn't make sense anyway, depending on how you define core addon 14.36.08 # [Saint]: the *look* of the UI 14.36.17 # exactly! 14.36.24 # there's a lot more to UI than just look 14.36.27 # you're going to argue this isnt the look? 14.36.28 # <[Saint]> polemon: What makes you say that? I've already created the most awesome Nano2G theme there is, ever :P 14.36.44 # [Saint]: which one is it? 14.36.50 # <[Saint]> iLike 14.36.52 # and don't say pen+paper 14.36.55 # ... 14.37.00 # list spacing is not primarily about look yes 14.37.21 # uh... iLike is like nothing changed since using RockBox... 14.37.22 # I made it so I can actually use lists 14.37.25 # it's a bit sad... 14.37.51 # <[Saint]> polemon: Why would it change? Its a faithful representation of the Apple OS. 14.38.10 # <[Saint]> unless Apple changes it, it won;t change...and Apple's done with the Nano2G. 14.38.11 # can I simulate the .fms view in the simluator? 14.38.26 # polemon: There is an evil quote of me getting pissed of with [Saint] because i tested his theme on my ipod video, forgot about it and wondered why rockbox wasnt booting :) 14.39.20 # making those themes is a bit painful, though... 14.39.30 # I wish it could read and compose PNGs 14.41.13 # why the heck did the gnu people start naming the files different from the versions? 14.41.55 # because: rms 14.42.50 # yeah, they did a fix release because they forgot some files. but why the name policy change? 14.42.56 # <[Saint]> i hope my ipod vid has music on it.. and battery 14.42.56 # <[Saint]> hahah S_a_i_n_t, you twat! 14.42.56 # <[Saint]> I booted my vid and wondered why the fuck it got into the OF 14.42.56 DBUG Enqueued KICK [Saint] 14.42.56 # <[Saint]> curse your ilike theme 14.43.00 # <[Saint]> ...there we go ;) 14.43.08 # it screws up our compiler compiler 14.43.26 # you didnt have to repaste it... 14.45.04 # Zagor: possibly because it is a rushed and patched release? 14.45.26 # yeah, maybe 14.46.36 Quit Farthen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14.46.40 # srsly... 14.46.51 # why only BPM? 14.47.32 # kugel: I think our focus should be "how do we fix this for default without ruining every custom theme" 14.47.40 # polemon: why is BPM painful? 14.48.02 # Bagder: no anti aliasing when composing images onto the background 14.48.14 # only 1-Bit alpha 14.48.22 Ctcp Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood 14.48.22 # * [Saint] assumes polemon means .bmp 14.48.30 # so its lack of alpha you're talking about 14.48.34 # BMP 14.48.35 # yeah 14.48.37 # which is WAY more than just image format 14.48.46 # PNG has it 14.48.50 # yes 14.48.54 # but rockbox doesn't 14.48.55 # much more easier to create an UI with it 14.49.00 Join Farthen [0] (~Farthen@2a01:4f8:101:2a4:0:bc28:b2e1:9) 14.49.20 # <[Saint]> do your work in .png and export it to bitmap. done. 14.49.21 # jpg is more likely than png 14.49.33 # jpg is poo 14.49.33 # so if rockbox would support PNG tomorrow, it would have to convert the alpha to a fixed color 14.49.42 # at least in UI design 14.49.46 # artefacts, etc 14.49.58 # png is great. we should support it 14.50.15 # it is, it IS! 14.50.27 # unlikely though 14.50.32 # libpng is PITA, though 14.50.47 # again, don't confuse PNG with alpha channel 14.51.14 # we support png in a plugin, but not alpha IIRC 14.51.26 # I'm not, you could take any other image format that has 8 bit alpha 14.51.39 # it is NOT about the image format!!! 14.52.14 # I don't see what you're so agitated about 14.52.26 # because it seems you don't get it 14.52.38 # rockbox has no alpha support 14.52.46 # it doesn't matter what image format you add to that 14.53.04 # I know, I've been doing this kind of programming... 14.53.05 # Bagder: That's not entirely right :) 14.53.11 # you'd first need to implement actual alpha 14.53.23 # I don't count the "chroma-key" style as alpha 14.53.25 # we have anti aliased fonts, with 4bit alpha channel 14.53.27 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 14.53.29 # *sight* 14.53.32 # ah right, for fonts 14.53.35 # forgot that 14.53.42 # we do interpret alpha in png plugin 14.53.45 # I guess someone could make it work for images in theory 14.55.03 Join webguest36 [0] (~3b9c9e87@www.haxx.se) 14.56.32 # As far as I remember the main concern about png graphics in themes was memory needed + time to decode. You will need to decode all images on theme load and cache decoded version. 14.56.57 # that's what I expected... 14.58.04 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 14.58.21 # wodz: are you talking about the lz compression of PNG? 14.58.28 # the memory hit would be huge as you first need to load whole file int mem, uncompress it and finaly convert to native format. 14.58.58 # hmm, ok, then uncompredssed, but with alpha 14.59.06 Quit webguest36 (Client Quit) 14.59.35 # so are we done arguing about themes on android yet? :) 14.59.47 # Zagor: I totally understand your lack of desire to be the go-to guy for the git server as well 14.59.58 # does anyone have alternative suggestions? 15.00.03 # Torne: that was bagder :) 15.00.06 # Er 15.00.10 # Yeah, ok 15.00.12 # Whichever :) 15.00.16 # reading the backlog about (a) list spacing and (b) font selection based on font size is quite... interesting. People saying (a) was rather done by the theme say that (b) shouldn't be done by the theme only - and vice versa 15.00.20 # same same, but different :) 15.00.25 # Zagor: so, er, what do we want to do about that? 15.01.44 # unless someone desperately wants to host git.rockbox.org on his very stable machine, I think we go forward with installation on www 15.02.18 # Zagor: ok. 15.02.31 # Zagor: so, i am back in the UK now and thus I can actually manage to talk to you 15.02.38 # pixelma: well, they are two different issues 15.02.42 # pacific time turned out to be inconvenient ;) 15.02.46 # uncompressed TGA, mazbe? 15.02.56 # s/zb/yb/ 15.03.12 # Torne: excellent. I think I'll have some time tonight. 15.03.39 # Zagor: OK, good. I'll ping you when I get home from work, then 15.03.43 # Zagor: i could always throw it on mine if need be... 15.03.48 # polemon: without hardware support for alpha blending (and most of our targets don't have such) it is pointless 15.04.20 # Zagor: what webserver does www run? 15.04.33 # Torne: apache2 15.04.35 # ok 15.04.56 # the "nicest" way to configure gerrit is to install mod_proxy, then, and set up a reverse proxy for the vhost git.rockbox.org or similar 15.05.09 # right 15.05.14 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15.05.36 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 15.05.46 # since then it can be on port 80 15.05.54 # which is more firewall-friendly and less typing 15.06.24 # yes 15.07.39 # JdGordon: Heh, sorry. I was hoping to help you with the Clip+ issue (didn't see it also applied to ClipV1), by building some Onda/Clip+ code for users to try. However it'll likely be much quicker for you to just attack it some day.. 15.09.39 # wodz: well, then blending in software! 15.09.57 # JdGordon: sure, but I don't see such a great difference with regards to the question "what should be handled by the theme (only) and what with a setting" 15.10.37 # polemon: than you will need to blend on every lcd update - that's gonna hurt 15.11.36 # pre-blend and store the resulting bitmaps in cache files 15.12.43 # or, well, there could be a blending compiler for themes 15.12.56 # pixelma: I still dont understand your point 15.13.02 # they are two very different issues 15.14.44 # choosing the font is more about making sure the text is actually readable and not so much about the look 15.15.41 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 15.15.53 # oh great, I made him leave 15.22.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.22.39 Join WalkGood [0] (~4@unaffiliated/walkgood) 15.25.57 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15.26.22 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 15.32.46 Join milk [0] (~milk@94-193-93-226.zone7.bethere.co.uk) 15.37.10 # <[Saint]> pixelma: Its not saying that font selection shouldn't be done by the theme, in fact, I don't think that was said at all. 15.37.49 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 15.37.50 # <[Saint]> It was said that the theme should specify a font, and a font size, but users should be allowed to chose a font within the range specified by the theme, optionally, if they chose to. 15.38.28 # <[Saint]> The theme is still handling the font by default, and the theme still governs what fonts can be used. 15.38.58 # <[Saint]> (that was my interpretation of the conversation, at least) 15.39.22 # not quite what I was suggesting but close enough 15.39.31 # <[Saint]> By the way pixelma, did you have any comments about the cabbie full-touch theme? 15.41.01 # <[Saint]> (its cool if you don't, just curious. I've been getting a LOT of feedback from the cyanogenmod community I've become a part of but its all pretty much useless noise) 15.42.14 # * [Saint] discovers he needs at least one new lang string. 15.42.33 # <[Saint]> I need "Screen Locked" to do the titlebar with full translation. 15.43.14 # [Saint]: Hope you take my comments in the intended spirit... ;) 15.43.37 # <[Saint]> pondlife: I didn't actually parse it particularly well. 15.43.45 # <[Saint]> I wasn't sure what you were getting at. 15.44.10 # Mainly didn't like the pop-up window with the Q C stuff in. 15.44.41 # Most of what I spotted is probably not theme related really. 15.45.42 # Also, the theme setting didn't seem to work because my paths were different - no .rockbox 15.46.01 # Not sure why - I just installed Rasher's latest build from apk 15.46.03 # <[Saint]> I did it that way to maximize the screen realestate that can be used by the most important factors in the .wps 15.46.26 # <[Saint]> those being metadata, playback controls, and AA (subjective) 15.46.48 Part LinusN 15.46.51 # I agree, but don't think shuffle/repeat are that important. 15.46.58 # <[Saint]> pondlife: there's no .rockbox 15.47.03 # <[Saint]> its "rockbox" 15.47.17 # <[Saint]> And, if you've not tried the theme in a long time, it might pay to try it now. 15.47.24 # I tried today's 15.47.27 # v6 15.47.43 # <[Saint]> Ah, right. You'd need to re-apply the theme from theme settings. 15.47.51 # I did 15.48.01 # <[Saint]> It should've worked fine, then. 15.48.13 # Thought the theme file had a .rockbox in... what's the FS# again? 15.48.27 # no, it's rockbox/ 15.48.33 # without the dot 15.48.40 # I was briefly confused by that too 15.48.48 # Yes, it is on the device.. but I maybe got the wrong download? 15.48.59 # <[Saint]> http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12254 15.49.09 # * pondlife downloads again 15.49.56 # sbs: /.rockbox/wps/cabbiev2.sbs 15.49.57 # * God_Eater has distributed an apk and a theme file to a few people at work for his test audience 15.50.17 # cabbiev2.cfg contains dots 15.50.18 # bug! 15.50.21 # <[Saint]> the theme .cfg uses ".rockbox" 15.50.31 # <[Saint]> but that points to "/sdcard/rockbox/ 15.50.33 # <[Saint]> " 15.50.38 # WTF? 15.50.39 # <[Saint]> that's a little confusing. 15.50.41 # how does that work? 15.50.46 # <[Saint]> Pass. 15.50.53 # It doesn't ;) 15.50.59 # <[Saint]> Oh, it does. 15.51.01 # Or it didn't for me 15.51.04 # <[Saint]> I assure you it does. 15.51.14 # How? 15.51.33 # Do you have a link in /.rockbox or something? 15.51.37 # who decided that bit of obfuscation was a good idea? 15.51.44 # I'm not root... 15.51.52 # <[Saint]> there's no symlink, no. 15.51.57 # <[Saint]> and you don;t need to be root. 15.52.21 # this seems a very very dumb idea 15.52.32 # It did pick up the WPS, font, backdrop ok, but not the sbs 15.52.57 # I get the tiny default status bar 15.53.00 # I wouldn't know what an sbs looks like 15.53.07 # so no way to tell what happened with it here 15.53.11 # <[Saint]> Works for me, worked for others testing today...and since its creation. 15.53.35 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: If you had playback control in the main menu, it loaded. 15.54.05 # I didn't 15.54.07 # I may have put something in the wrong place, of course... will recheck tonight 15.54.14 # there was definitely no playback control 15.54.23 # <[Saint]> Hmmm...this is curious. 15.54.34 # * God_Eater will attempt to screenshot 15.54.53 # <[Saint]> Zagor: you definitely had playback control in the main menus, yes? 15.55.00 # yes 15.55.09 # <[Saint]> WTF!?! 15.55.12 # hmm - I lie actually 15.55.12 # Bah - sysfont unusableness occurs 15.55.16 # I just didn't notice it 15.55.18 # sorry [Saint] 15.55.20 # =/ 15.55.28 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: *phew*, no worries ;) 15.56.58 # <[Saint]> the reason for the .rockbox/rockbox weirdness is unknown to me. But the /sdcard/rockbox/ dir is essentially a symlink to .rockbox in the internal memory. 15.57.17 # <[Saint]> files in sdcard/rockbox are given first pecking order over files in internal memory. 15.57.30 # <[Saint]> (which is why I can directly "replace" cabbiev2" 15.57.31 # <[Saint]> ) 15.58.15 # On a not-quite-related subject, is there any way to make the database browser ignore stuff above /sdcard? 15.58.36 # Maybe it should use the same root folder as the file browser? 15.58.42 # <[Saint]> pondlife: "database.ignore" 15.59.01 # Yes, but I would have to root my device to put one above /sdcard 15.59.06 # <[Saint]> make a blank file named "database.ignore" and put it in the root of the sdcard. 15.59.08 # symlink is the wrong term, but whatever 15.59.09 # It's all read-only up there 15.59.13 # I mean in / 15.59.25 # <[Saint]> pondlife: Ah, then, no. 15.59.25 # db picks up all sorts of Samsung stuff 15.59.27 # I didn't think RaaA indexed outside of /sdcard 15.59.31 # there's no /.rockbox 15.59.37 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: It walks the whole FS 15.59.46 # [Saint]: another peculiar decision 15.59.49 # "/.rockbox" is the magic for whereever the appropriate place is on the host platform 16.00.09 # We already have a start folder for the file browser - I'll make the db use that 16.00.15 # God_Eater: doing the whole FS wasn't a decision 16.00.21 # pondlife: why not root your device though? :) 16.00.26 # it happens to be hardcoded in the database 16.00.48 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: I've mentioned it needs a "start database here" option like the filebrowser has, even looked into doing so (but it was above me, I thought I could do it, it seemed simple, but I messed it up) 16.00.48 # God_Eater: I'll let [Saint] answer that ;) 16.01.20 # Besides, I have a bad rep when it comes to bricking in the name of Rockbox. 16.01.30 # oh come on 16.01.32 # you only did it once ;) 16.01.35 # <[Saint]> Wait, what am I answering? ;) 16.01.49 # I have been too lazy to implement a list of search dirs for the database (not a single one). the framework is there 16.01.53 # God_Eater: Twice actually 16.01.55 # just the setting is missing 16.02.06 # pondlife: oh? What did you do other than the H340 ? 16.02.11 # <[Saint]> kugel: Ah, nice. WHen was that added, and where? 16.02.17 # Same one twice 16.02.24 # <[Saint]> I can't say I noticed such a thing but didn't look terribly hard. 16.02.25 # now that's dedicated 16.02.30 # <[Saint]> I tried to reinvent the wheel. 16.02.48 # I must hate that H340 (H380 the second time)... and Linus... 16.02.52 # well, whatever commit fixed the handling of recursive symlinks 16.02.54 # talking of which, has LinusN finished resurrecting it yet? 16.03.01 # that introduced multiple search roots 16.03.11 # Yes, but he's experimenting on it to work out what broke 16.03.22 # <[Saint]> Hmmmm. That's quite possibly more recent than my attempt to add it. 16.03.35 # pondlife: that's not "finished" in my book ;) 16.03.39 # it's ages ago, but after the start filebrowser here thuing 16.04.11 # A single entry would do me... consistency across browsers being good too... 16.04.24 # nah 16.04.37 # <[Saint]> pondlife: You mention "\Phone\rockbox" dir? 16.04.38 # I'd want the DB indexing my google music cache, and the file browser to stay the hell out of it 16.04.41 # filebrowser start has little to do with where the music is, imo 16.05.09 # [Saint]: That's how it appears in Windows - probably not true. 16.05.28 # someone just do a setting in the fashion of autoresume, a list for dirs 16.05.29 # you still using that creaky OS then? :) 16.05.33 # <[Saint]> you also say it shows the Android status bar. 16.05.43 # then initialize the search_roots in tagcache.c with that 16.05.43 # <[Saint]> something is VERY wrong with your device. 16.06.06 # No - I want it to show the Android status bar 16.06.24 # <[Saint]> Ah, sorry, I missread. We all do, its not currently possible. 16.06.44 # Indeed, I was just braindumping 16.07.09 # i hacked a patch together for this 16.07.14 # should be on my git 16.07.18 # but it's very immature 16.07.31 # also ages ago :) 16.07.44 Join powell14ski_ [0] (~powell14s@c-174-51-194-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net) 16.07.48 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 16.08.03 # <[Saint]> WHat .apk did you download pondlife, and from where? 16.08.13 # Rasher's.. hang on a mo.. 16.08.18 # <[Saint]> I really have no idea why your device isn't displaying this properly. 16.08.24 # <[Saint]> it *is* working correctly. 16.08.29 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053152100.adsl.alicedsl.de) 16.08.37 # <[Saint]> pondlife: that's fine, I know the ones. 16.08.44 # http://rasher.dk/rockbox/android/ - 480x800 16.08.50 # <[Saint]> the 480x800 port is actually the most mature port. 16.09.07 # who you calling mature?! 16.09.08 # <[Saint]> and it *does* display correctly on other devices. 16.10.22 # pondlife - try grabbing Zagors? 16.10.38 # http://bjorn.haxx.se/tmp/rockbox.apk 16.10.40 Join freddyb [0] (~freddybbb@216.8.249.70.static.etczone.com) 16.11.39 # [Saint]: Probably user error, don't worry 16.12.30 # I'm at work at the moment and don't have my phone cable handy. 16.13.04 # so? 16.13.15 # download direct to the phone 16.13.35 # Work pressure ;) 16.13.47 # excuses excuses 16.13.49 # <[Saint]> Yet time for IRC, classic ;) 16.13.55 # yeah, exactly 16.14.07 # IRC doesn't involve thinking 16.14.26 # :) 16.14.27 # neither does downloading to a phone 16.14.41 # Irc can also look like you're working :) 16.14.49 # n1s is on the case 16.15.02 # using the phone looks like working, too 16.15.03 # <[Saint]> "(don't favour file browser over database!)" also confuses me... 16.15.07 # <[Saint]> do I do so? 16.15.20 # pondlife: http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=http%3A%2F%2Fbjorn.haxx.se%2Ftmp%2Frockbox.apk 16.15.32 # then you can scan it and not even have to type anything :) 16.16.01 # Nope, you're not going to get me involved now ;) 16.16.56 # PS [Saint] - that's how I want all links from you in future ;) 16.17.20 Join matze` [0] (~pflaume@p5498A765.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.17.48 # <[Saint]> pondlife: Did you at some point, use a Rockbox build with the "resources on /sdcard patch applied? And if so, did you chose to not replace files while extracting? 16.18.19 # <[Saint]> that's the *only* way I can explain the behaviour you're seeing. 16.18.25 # <[Saint]> even then it doesn;t make a lot of sense. 16.18.38 # I definiely would have overwritten all. 16.19.15 # <[Saint]> "Reason for closing: Not a bug - Device is weird and broken" ;) 16.19.26 # I did have a previous installation moved to the card... but had to uninstall that before I could get the new apk to install. 16.19.45 # Presumably that's normal ... ;) 16.20.05 # <[Saint]> it wouldn't be if the signing keys were the same. 16.20.05 # only if the previous install was built by someone other than rasher 16.20.09 # that's normal if the apk's are signed using a different key 16.20.20 # <[Saint]> three in a fow, nice ;) 16.20.24 # (debug keys expire after some time, iirc 1 year) 16.20.26 # <[Saint]> *row, too 16.20.54 # * bluebrother thinks that shutdown in menu thing should be handled by features.txt 16.21.30 # is there any reason this isn't the case right now? 16.21.33 # <[Saint]> You might care to know that shifting to the sdcard breaks our lovely widgets, too, pondlife 16.21.46 # otherwise I might give it a go later today 16.21.55 # <[Saint]> bluebrother: the very vocal "you dfon't need shutdown in an Android application" crew. 16.21.55 # Cool - why do we allow it ;) 16.22.14 # <[Saint]> pondlife: Its not a question of "We". 16.22.20 # <[Saint]> its Androids fault. 16.22.47 # Some apps keep the option greyed out, I believe... 16.22.49 # <[Saint]> It allows you to move to the sdcard, but it doesn't make any claims that the app will continue to work correctly ;) 16.23.08 # yes, so we should disable allowing it 16.23.24 # Can we not specify some kind of "non-movable" attribute? 16.23.32 # yes we can 16.23.36 # plenty of other apps do 16.23.38 # [Saint]: well, it's not about having shutdown in the menu (on target x) but simply by handling it slightly different :) 16.23.43 # bluebrother: just think noone did it, i think car adaptor mode is the same 16.23.46 # <[Saint]> the "fix" for this is having the widgets as seperate .apks 16.24.12 # n1s: ok, will give it a go later then. AFAIU it shouldn't be hard at all 16.24.26 # or, well at least in the manual, dunno if that's what you were talking about :) 16.24.27 # <[Saint]> bluebrother: Good luck... 16.24.38 # [Saint]: it's not about enabling it for Android ;-) 16.24.50 # (but that would make enabling it for Android a one line change) 16.24.52 # <[Saint]> I cannot remember who, but there were some very vocal people regarding Android apps not needing a shutdown. 16.25.07 # <[Saint]> bluebrother: Ah, right. Gotcha. 16.25.15 # It should be enabled for Android while we still have "Reboot to enable" splashes ;) 16.25.31 # Killing the service isn't very obvious 16.25.37 # <[Saint]> That splash is broken, anyway. 16.25.47 # do we still have those? 16.25.50 # <[Saint]> it tricks users into thinking a full reboot is needed. Its not. 16.26.02 # n1s: DB rebuild 16.26.04 # <[Saint]> n1s: Yes. 16.26.09 # n1s: the db one is the only one left I think 16.26.24 # coincidentally the most obvious one 16.26.25 # aha, i thought they would go away with the buflib stuff 16.26.46 # yea, but the db isn't as simple as the buffer size it needs isn't known beforehand 16.27.10 # it can be done by taking away lots of memory. but that needs to be reclaimed at some point 16.27.14 # <[Saint]> can it steal all available buffer, then give back the rest? 16.27.36 # <[Saint]> ...that's a bit ugly, though. 16.27.49 # It has to do this while playback runs though. 16.27.58 # So, not *all* memory 16.28.01 # kugel: no realloc style feature in buflib? 16.28.22 # you need temp memory for realloc 16.28.41 # why does it need to do it whilst playback runs? 16.28.54 # It's a background scan 16.29.02 # kugel: not any more that you need for any other alloc 16.29.15 # You can listen to stuff while it proceeds at the moment.. 16.29.23 # background scans don't need the reboot afterwards though 16.29.36 # This one does 16.29.37 # it's only the initial scan which does though right? 16.29.47 # <[Saint]> God_Eater: I thought so. 16.29.58 # n1s: if you want increase X by Y, you need to make an alloc of X+Y, memcpy() and then free X 16.29.59 # <[Saint]> Seems we may be wrong, though. 16.30.03 # this'll be me never using the DB 16.30.04 # :) 16.30.10 # it's not implemented, and I'm not sure we need it 16.30.24 # kugel: or move whatever is in the way 16.30.31 # <[Saint]> I've leaned towards the filebrowser too lately. 16.30.53 # n1s: implmenent it :) 16.30.57 # <[Saint]> I used to use the DB a lot, but its not even init'ed on my phone/DAPs anymore. 16.31.10 # kugel: i don't care about the db :) 16.31.43 # Looks like I'm the only db user left then ;) 16.32.08 # <[Saint]> pondlife: Yes, the only one in the world ;) 16.32.14 # <[Saint]> Its all up to you now, champ. 16.32.17 # pondlife: i think sideral uses it too but he's not been around much lately 16.32.59 # OK, I'll do a deal with him.... if we both agree to stop using it, can we have anything remaining in the fund? ;) 16.33.06 # Job done. 16.33.55 # did anyone look into what is required to use the android db instead or in addition to our own? 16.35.18 # it's sqllite 16.35.24 # so we'd need that for a start ;) 16.35.43 # isn't there an api for it? 16.36.51 # not that I'm sure what benefits it'd give, other than dodging the user question "why do you have your own db?" :) 16.37.19 # I'm sure there is an API for it yes 16.38.23 # would we do a translation layer between our tagcache query language, or just bin that completely in favour of SQL ? 16.38.48 # is sqlite small enough? 16.39.02 # Zagor: that server has a different dir structure for gcc than kernel.org had so rockboxdev.sh won't find gcc now 16.39.56 # :-[ and binutils can't be found because FSF screwed up their release 16.40.20 # i thought they symlinked those back 16.40.23 # downloading binutils worked for me some hours ago 16.40.32 # n1s: not on ftp.gnu.org at least 16.41.12 # the sunet server has them though 16.41.18 Quit WalkGood (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16.41.30 # i really love the inconsisteny 16.41.35 # or, hey, the did for .. everyone except the one we use: 2.16.1 16.42.14 # Lalufu: we don't care how small sqllite is really - we get it for free on Android. 16.42.18 # The GNU mirrors do just all have crazy random directory layouts 16.42.28 # ah, 2.15 and 2.16 indeed miss the non-a symlinks 16.43.43 # what are the maximum dimensions the cover art can have? 16.43.45 # God_Eater: well, if you're switching to sqlite on one platform it might be usable for all of them. 16.43.56 # I for one would not mind being able to use SQL queries 16.44.09 # Torne: yeah, it's fun for srcipting 16.44.19 # Zagor: the android db supports only a subset of the formats we can play 16.44.30 # Lalufu: oh, it's too big for all the embedded targets 16.44.37 # we've been through that discussion before 16.44.42 # kugel: ah, right 16.45.22 # pity. 16.45.26 # in fact, our db scan is so quick we should just do it by default :) 16.45.43 # i think sqlite was 100+ kB in size ompiled for arm 16.45.45 # kugel: is there something we can do to populate the android DB ourselves? 16.45.57 # or is it read only for apps? 16.46.13 # You can't touch it 16.46.14 # I guess read-only 16.46.28 # Torne: fix it pls. More formats kthx. 16.46.59 # <[Saint]> [03:43] what are the maximum dimensions the cover art can have? <-- there are none. 16.46.59 # God_Eater: it already differs per-device because some vendors replace the media framework :/ 16.47.09 # * Bagder presses reload on the "formats supported by db" page to see the changes come in 16.47.09 # Torne: *vomit* 16.47.13 # <[Saint]> but its totally useless to have AA that's any larger than the width of the LCD 16.47.18 # <[Saint]> polemon: ^ 16.47.51 # Torne: is it only vendors can replace the media framework? 16.47.55 # or can we do that too? 16.47.55 # :D 16.48.12 Quit casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110905174115]) 16.48.13 # haha 16.48.15 # we can provide our own android version yes:) 16.48.24 # Unhelpful: get right on that pls 16.48.26 # we need rockboxmod, the custom android 16.48.31 # wait, we already have an OS :P 16.48.51 # we need to just get folded into cyanogenmod 16.49.08 # leave the rest of the OS to the clever people ;) 16.49.17 # and we do what we're good at 16.49.43 # <[Saint]> Rockbox as an Application on Android in Rockbox as an Android OS. (RaaAoAiRaaAOS...?) ;) 16.50.09 # let's run android as a plugin in the rockbox os! 16.50.17 # I'm pretty sure CM replaced the default music app in CM6 16.50.25 # it wasn't super popular 16.50.28 # * [Saint] nods 16.50.35 # but there's not reason they couldn't do it again with a super awesome music app like Rockbox 16.50.40 # Just to get my terms straight, the screen that's shown while a song is playing (with the progressbar and all that) is called the WPS, right? 16.50.55 # Lalufu: yep, the "Whilst Playing Screen" 16.50.56 # <[Saint]> Lalufu: Correct 16.51.10 # or While even 16.52.12 # [Saint]: can you make it so the quickscreen goes away when I tap a second time? right now I don't know how to make it dissapear... 16.52.38 # <[Saint]> Zagor: tap the quickscreen in the middle 16.52.41 # is there a way to programmatically force the player to switch to that screen? 16.52.41 Quit mikroflops (Quit: <(^_^)>) 16.52.42 # <[Saint]> I can 16.52.43 # Zagor: back button? 16.52.51 # <[Saint]> 't theme the quickscreen 16.53.35 # neither works. tapping the middle brings up the qs but doen't bring it down again. and back throws me to the file browser! 16.54.12 # [Saint]: got it 16.54.18 # <[Saint]> Wait..do you mean the *actual* quickscreen? Or my .wps popup? 16.54.28 # I mean the wps popup 16.54.33 # it just has to be 24bit BMP, right? 16.54.40 # <[Saint]> It will disappear by itself. 16.54.42 # ...I guess 16.54.49 # <[Saint]> perhaps I should reduce the timeout 16.54.54 # oh, indeed it does 16.55.10 # That's why I don't like popups...timeouts are bad... 16.55.11 # <[Saint]> I didn't want it to disappear before a user gets time to make a selection. 16.55.19 # [Saint]: did iPod nanos had FM tuners? is the FMS actuallyever used on them? 16.55.19 # is it possible to make it go away the second tap? 16.55.20 # <[Saint]> its a fine balance 16.55.49 # s/ye/y e/ 16.55.57 # <[Saint]> Zagor: I believe so, yes. But each selection from it should open a different screen. 16.56.10 # it's particularly confusing, because when you tap again to remove it the timeout resets and you feel it's going to stay forever :) 16.56.16 # <[Saint]> So, by the time you're done what you're doing in that screen it should time out. 16.56.48 # [Saint]: yes, but I didn't want to do anything. I just tapped the screen, saw the popup. "ok, that's nice. now go away. *tap*. please? *tap* grrr" 16.57.11 # <[Saint]> Right, gotcha ;) 16.58.09 # personally I feel shuffle and repeat should go into that popup 16.58.11 # <[Saint]> I believe it can be done with more skin variable magic. 16.59.16 # [Saint]: Is it intended that long press on the WPS shows the playlist? Or is that the "hotkey"? 16.59.36 # <[Saint]> pondlife: that's Hotkey 17.00.06 # <[Saint]> Zagor: Would it be better if I flipped long and short press in that instance? 17.00.17 # <[Saint]> So the pop-up didn't launch accidentally? 17.00.41 # <[Saint]> Avoiding accidental keypresses is *hard* :-S 17.00.41 # no the popup launch is fine. I just want to feel that I am in control of it. 17.00.53 # [Saint]: I guess I need a hotkey option for "Context menu" 17.01.00 # though I would prefer not having it popup on Hotkey. it gets a bit flickery. 17.01.20 # or was that what you meant? 17.01.50 # <[Saint]> come again? I'm not sure what "prefer not having it popup on Hotkey" means. 17.02.06 # I get the feeling that the "long" keypress timer isn't quite long enough 17.02.19 # I keep doing long presses when I want short ones 17.02.27 # when I long press, I get first the popup and then (200ms later) I get the playlist view 17.02.39 # <[Saint]> there was a patch to make that configurable at one point, but it never made it into svn. 17.03.03 # <[Saint]> Zagor: that's...interesting. That really shouldn't happen. 17.03.25 # <[Saint]> (and doesn't for me) 17.03.27 # I don't think it needs to be configurable, but it seems shorter tahn on other targets I've used. 17.03.33 # [Saint]: I see that too 17.03.46 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207-144-19-39.cstel.net) 17.03.49 # omg, I have the greatest idea ever! 17.03.50 # The popup appears just before it triggers the hotkey action 17.04.01 # why not use vector graphics for the UI!? 17.04.12 # been thought of before 17.04.13 # :) 17.04.26 # and_ 17.04.36 # too complex, eh? 17.04.56 # <[Saint]> too much for most targets to handle. 17.05.14 # :S 17.05.25 # would vector graphics even work well for the relatively small resolutions we want? 17.06.01 # sure 17.06.18 # yeah I don't see why not 17.06.19 # you can adjust the anti aliasing level in SVG for instance 17.06.35 # I doubt it'd work very well 17.06.51 # libsvg is *massive*, also 17.06.53 # vector fonts typically look crap at small sizes 17.07.05 # we *could* perhaps adapt to using vectors in the code base, and generate bitmaps from it at build time 17.07.07 # Torne: that'd be probably the killer factor 17.07.10 # <[Saint]> Zagor: pondlife: It seems I may have just never noticed this. 17.07.14 # and we have monocrome and greyscales with very few colors for anti aliasing 17.07.22 # <[Saint]> it seems there's a problem with the touch area "none" 17.07.23 # Zagor: I don't believe we meant vector fonts - just for icons and such 17.07.24 # Zagor: fonts, but what about graphics 17.07.29 # <[Saint]> Its fixable, but not with a theme. 17.07.56 # [Saint]: Keypress actions should generally be on key release if there are long/short options.. 17.08.36 # <[Saint]> Right...but, I didn't write the touch interface stuff ;) 17.08.42 # <[Saint]> Not. My. Problem ;) 17.09.01 # is your problem 17.09.01 # eventually, you need to take those things into account, there's things like the iPod touch and the latest iPod nano, which kind of thrive on vector graphics and alpha blending 17.09.10 # possibly not up to you to fix though ;) 17.09.23 # iPod touch is unlikely to ever get the love 17.09.32 # why_ 17.09.37 # and all the new nanos need us to keep finding ninja exploits on them 17.09.39 # DAMN KEZBOARD! 17.10.05 # <[Saint]> polemon: You're not taking into account that (whereever possible) things implmented in Rockbox need to run on all targets. 17.10.08 # hmm, but isn't it a matter of time, really? 17.10.09 # polemon: mainly because no-one here gives a damn about porting RaaA to iOS 17.10.12 # because nobody will ever be able to install rockbox on iOS without hacking it 17.10.21 # and this is a huge disincentive to anyone caring about porting it 17.10.24 # <[Saint]> And, a LOT of our targets just DON'T have the grunt for your proposals 17.10.38 # [Saint]: sure, but there's the color UI and the text based one, too 17.10.47 # <[Saint]> Right...and? 17.11.04 # I like the idea of keeping the graphics as vectors in the source repo and generating target appropriate bitmaps from them at build time though 17.11.08 # that would be cool :) 17.11.13 # so, things like vector graphics and such would be the next logical step, wouldn't it? 17.11.16 # God_Eater: That is a neat trick if you can get it to produce acceptable output 17.11.21 # <[Saint]> A lot of colour UI targets are *really* underpowered. 17.11.29 # God_Eater: not always easy, though; fonts are hinted for a reason 17.11.32 # <[Saint]> We don;t want it to take ~20 seconds to load a screen. 17.11.33 # Torne: I'm not volunteering to get it working mind ;) 17.11.39 # <[Saint]> let alone screen refreshes. 17.12.01 # Torne: and again, I wouldn't even bother doing this with fonts 17.12.04 # only with icons 17.12.12 # Right, i'm just drawing ac omparison 17.12.15 # It's not like i want vector graphics on my old iPod 17.12.23 # Vector graphics also often look crap when you scale them down too far 17.12.30 # true 17.12.30 # for the same reasons vector fonts do 17.12.34 # and SVG doesn't have hinting :) 17.12.35 # but the latest players are well capable of that and have large enough screens... 17.12.44 # <[Saint]> Icons use transparency, there's already a script to produce an iconset from the tango set. 17.12.47 # polemon: you say that but it's mostly *not the case* 17.12.49 # <[Saint]> the result looks like ass. 17.12.57 Join WalkGood [0] (~4@adsl-108-132-99-26.mia.bellsouth.net) 17.12.57 Quit WalkGood (Changing host) 17.12.57 Join WalkGood [0] (~4@unaffiliated/walkgood) 17.12.59 # polemon: I think what we're all saying here is "We await your patch to do this with interest" 17.12.59 # polemon: Current MP3 players are, mostly, not much more powerful than ones we already support 17.13.02 # They don't need to be 17.13.03 # verctor graphics as source format is sensible. vector graphics on static-size targets is ... not. 17.14.05 # well, I'd be OK, with that, but themes would need to be "compiled" stand alone. 17.14.28 # <[Saint]> polemon: What we're all saying basically is.....get coding. 17.14.46 # <[Saint]> Put something on the tracker, and we'll talk then. 17.15.08 # ok, ok, don't get mad 17.15.13 # <[Saint]> I'm not. 17.15.52 Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@h-34-156.a238.priv.bahnhof.se) 17.15.57 # <[Saint]> You'd know if I (or others) were, there's be various swears incorperated into the mix ;) 17.16.09 # I installed RockBox for the first time ever earlier today, so it's not like i can whip out stuff just like thatn 17.16.30 # <[Saint]> And neither can we ;) 17.16.31 # I'm in the process of making my second theme, and I still don't know where the FMS comes in on iPod nanos 17.16.35 # polemon: when I said earlier the idea had come up before, I wasn't kidding ;) 17.16.39 Part Zagor 17.16.39 # <[Saint]> Especially when its totally impractical to do so. 17.16.47 # you aren't the first person to come in and feel like you've just been shot down 17.16.57 # so chill - it's happened to us all at some point ;) 17.17.21 # <[Saint]> Ohhh no, certainly not ;) Its happened to all of us. We've all had "the big idea" 17.17.39 # <[Saint]> But, those ideas need to be capable of running on some *really* low powered hardware. 17.17.44 # your idea even has the merit of not being entirely stupid ;) 17.17.53 # some people's great ideas are just f*cking moronic 17.18.01 # <[Saint]> I'll second that! ;) 17.18.06 # <[Saint]> I've had a few of those. 17.18.31 # only a few? :) 17.18.43 # moronic? 17.18.47 # elaborate... 17.18.53 # <[Saint]> I'm quite delighted that this is your first appearence and its not just "Can haz Rockbox betterz plz?" 17.19.09 # polemon: go take a look at GoldenQuotes in the wiki 17.19.41 # <[Saint]> L0rD AsuKa wanted help to port Android to his iPod Nano1G, for instance ;) 17.19.57 # <[Saint]> there've been some classic ones. 17.20.14 # Asuka... 17.20.32 # he's been watching too much Evangelion, me thinks... 17.20.48 # <[Saint]> And huffing a lot of glue... 17.21.52 # <[Saint]> Your idea about images taken from vector graphics at compile time is partially in place. 17.22.02 # <[Saint]> The problem is, it produces shit results. 17.22.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.22.19 # <[Saint]> Which need to be cleaned up by hand, making it totally pointless. 17.22.55 # <[Saint]> We use a "magic colour" for transparency in Rockbox (you may have noticed), this doesn't sit well with resizing images. 17.23.21 Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 17.23.30 # <[Saint]> As you get a magenta (our magic colour) ring around all the images as it tries to be "smart" when resizing and blend edges. 17.28.32 # I'm reading the golden quotes right now 17.28.50 # seems you had some fun with recouring people at times... 17.29.23 Quit pondlife (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.29.55 # <[Saint]> "You broke my iPod Touch" guy is a good read. 17.30.15 # "Guess I'm new around here anyways I'm porting Android OS to my Ipod Nano 1st Gen and My wii I might need some extra help" 17.30.29 # > I might need some extra help 17.31.47 Join Viperfang [0] (~Viperfang@82.153.164.228) 17.34.36 # God_Eater: ...actually i'm already working on integrating ffmpeg as a demuxer and decoder for the stagefright media library - it should give stagefright everything you get from ffmpeg, except for subtitle, aspect ratio, and stream selection support. :/ 17.35.40 # those need new APIs or extensions... but anyway that effort is stalled while i work on my audiomangler project for a bit 17.38.18 # FMS is still puzzling me, but I need food 17.38.23 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) 17.38.42 Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 17.42.46 # are the Demos written in Lua? 17.44.22 # <[Saint]> Nope. 17.46.09 # <[Saint]> polemon: What puzzles you about the .fms, in particular? 17.46.22 # * [Saint] is somewhat of a theme guru 17.48.59 # only 1 man in 1000 can do that 17.49.14 # well, as I have mentioned before, I have an iPod nano 2g 17.49.37 # now, there are Themes with .fms for those iPods, so were there ever iPod nanos with FM tuners? 17.49.37 # <[Saint]> And? 17.49.50 # <[Saint]> Its additional hardwear. 17.49.55 # aaah!!! 17.49.59 # <[Saint]> *hardware 17.50.01 # the ipod radio remote works on all ipods with dock connectors 17.50.04 # at least in Rockbox. 17.50.10 # * [Saint] nods 17.50.11 # at least in theory :) 17.50.12 # > Hardwear 17.50.47 Quit T44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.53.12 # hmm, can't finde such a device for 2g nanos.. 17.53.57 # There's a buttload of them for the later generations 17.54.16 # hm? 17.54.20 # <[Saint]> it'll work on the Nano2G also 17.54.21 # we only support the apple radio remote 17.54.26 # afaik 17.54.43 # <[Saint]> Torne: Or good copies ;) 17.54.54 # it will work on any ipod that has a dock connector to plug it into, and on which we support the accessory protocol 17.54.56 # <[Saint]> I have one "no-name" that works. 17.55.04 # i think the accessory protocol works on the nano2g 17.55.18 # whether it works in apple's firmware is a different matter :) 17.55.38 # hmm, this thing is cheap as poo 17.55.53 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@f048174074.adsl.alicedsl.de) 17.56.09 # 4 Euros including shipping 17.57.26 # that sounds unlikely to be the right thing 17.57.49 # who cares, as long as it does the job... 17.57.53 # google suggests the radio remote costs ten times that much 17.57.56 # Er, but it probably *won't* 17.58.17 # there are the weird separate-fm-radio-thatt-just-uses-the-ipod-for-battery things 17.58.31 # n1s: true. they don't require an fms, though :) 17.58.31 # even if it doesn't 4 euros isn't a fortune 17.59.06 # Torne: true, and i'd expect something like that for 4€ 17.59.16 # it's supposed to be controllable with iPod 17.59.27 # then it might work 18.00.25 # but it's analogue radio only 18.00.58 # yes, they all are, i expect 18.00.59 # and they will shut down analogue radio in the next few years, here... 18.01.09 # <[Saint]> Its probably on of those FM sender things. 18.01.18 # <[Saint]> those are like $1 here 18.01.19 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 18.01.19 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 18.01.19 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 18.01.25 # omgwtflol, the slimdevices guy responded and attached the patch he used for tremor to skip the comment packet 18.01.25 # <[Saint]> *one of 18.01.31 # polemon: if you link to the thing you are looking at we can probably identify it ;) 18.01.51 # <[Saint]> n1s: Nice? 18.01.53 # i have never seen an ipod DAB receiver 18.01.56 # http://v.gd/2jz2K0 <--- German eBay 18.02.29 # <[Saint]> looks promising. 18.02.31 # Oh, when you say 4 euro you mean "irrelevant starting bid on ebay" 18.02.46 # anyway yes, that is teh actual apple radio remote and should work on rockbox, as long as IAP works on the nano2g these days 18.03.08 # I would be very surprised if the closing price is not significantly higher, though, it has over a day to go and that thing new costs ten times that much 18.03.12 # <[Saint]> I can't remember if it does. And all my Nano2Gs are in the car. 18.03.18 # <[Saint]> And its cold outside... 18.03.21 # it doesn't 18.03.33 # <[Saint]> Ah, there you go. No point, polemon. 18.03.45 # hm 18.03.51 # Right 18.03.55 # Yeah, i just looked, it's not enabled 18.03.58 # presumably we don't have a serial driver 18.04.15 # <[Saint]> Before you say anythign about "well why do these themes have an .fms then?"...they are also themes for the Nano1G, which *does* support it. 18.04.40 # <[Saint]> themes are sorted by screen resolution, not be device. 18.04.42 # There's a patch for iap/serial on the nano 2g, but I don't think anybody tried it yet. Also we might need some other magic thing to make serial work. 18.05.04 # <[Saint]> TheSeven looked into it once, I believe. 18.05.19 # <[Saint]> I seem to remember him saying it'd be semi-trivial to get it working. 18.06.09 # probably. 18.06.16 # serial is not too hard, and then IAP should just work 18.06.18 # Torne, [Saint] : http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12082 18.06.30 # and I don't think TheSeven looked into it 18.06.51 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@seas531.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) 18.07.18 # <[Saint]> He certainly has...but, not into this patch specifically. 18.07.34 # <[Saint]> What I remember from the discussion was before this patch was created. 18.07.47 # that was just idle talk, AFAIK 18.07.54 # ok, this solved the issue with the fms, I won't bother making one, then 18.08.20 # <[Saint]> Nano1G owners will be pissed ;) 18.08.33 # erm, can RockBox access the internal speaker of iPod nanos? 18.08.52 # <[Saint]> No. Not without a patch. 18.08.58 # I might make one eventually 18.09.03 # pity 18.09.15 # would be nice to make the iPod play music all by itself 18.09.24 # even though it'd sound like crap 18.09.47 # <[Saint]> Ummmm..no. 18.09.57 # <[Saint]> A piezo playing music...just no. 18.10.10 # <[Saint]> keyclicks and beeps, yes. 18.10.14 # <[Saint]> Music, no. 18.10.24 # chiptunes? 18.13.03 Quit [Saint] (Quit: bedtime - theme hacking tomorrow.) 18.14.28 # well, you have a hardware pwm for the piezo, so you *might* actually be able to play PCM audio on it 18.14.35 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 18.14.36 # it would of course sound pretty much crappy 18.18.42 Quit freddyb (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.21.16 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@203.184.50.187) 18.23.15 Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick) 18.28.55 Quit Guinness (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.28.59 Join Guinness [0] (Slayer@c-68-55-111-159.hsd1.va.comcast.net) 18.30.00 Quit Keripo (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.31.26 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@seas531.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) 18.35.39 Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@2a02:8420:215:f000:f66d:4ff:fe45:790f) 18.36.22 Join bieber [0] (~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) 18.39.31 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.40.00 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 18.48.40 # [Saint_AndChat]: yes, nice. If it works out it should make rb able to play vorbis files with embedded album art 18.49.07 # it is against slimdevices' heavily patched up tremor from the "low-mem" branch though 18.49.16 # so needs a bit of adjustment 18.49.42 # <[Saint_AndChat]> We should in fact print a splash questioning the users sanity qhen aa is embedded in vorbis ;) 18.50.00 # yes 18.50.46 # <[Saint_AndChat]> But, that is good. Its nice to be able to handle these cases. 18.50.49 # well, it will help when othe metadata is too big, it doesn't really matter if that is aa or not 18.51.31 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I've found many vorbis files with massive aa. 18.52.05 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Its a sin in any audio. 18.52.59 # * [Saint_AndChat] has never seen the need for multiple copies of the same image to be in his audio. 18.54.18 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 18.54.46 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I once "acquired" an album that had the cover, the CD label, and a scan of the booklet insert embedded in each file. Stripping the tags reduced the size by ~400MB 18.56.49 # [Saint_AndChat]: so how does your alternating sublines solution work if I *don't* have a fixed string, but e.g. %Lt? 18.57.23 # <[Saint_AndChat]> ...it'll fail miserably. 18.57.48 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I thought you only wanted to scroll "Rockbox" in this way. 18.58.13 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Sorry, I must have misread. 18.59.07 Join freddyb [0] (~freddybbb@216.8.239.112.etczone.com) 18.59.11 # The "rockbox" I mentioned was an example to show what I meant by "rotating". My sbs had %Lt all along 18.59.35 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Oh. Right, apologies. 19.00.15 # I'm still interested in a way of doing this with the current tags if you manage to think of any :) 19.00.23 # <[Saint_AndChat]> I can only think of how to do it with a fixed string. 19.01.05 # <[Saint_AndChat]> Ill see if I can come up with something though, you never know. 19.01.27 # n1s: what is this for tremor? 19.09.18 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~LemonBoy@ppp-105-61.26-151.libero.it) 19.17.12 Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii) 19.18.40 Join mortalis [0] (4d6c62b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.108.98.176) 19.19.10 Join advcomp2019 [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 19.19.39 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19.21.25 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 19.21.28 # any arm asm people around? 19.21.50 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.22.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.22.19 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 19.24.14 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p57B575D7.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.24.15 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 19.24.15 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 19.24.22 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) 19.28.08 # * jhMikeS never met someone consisting of arm asm 19.29.26 Join Horschti [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 19.30.22 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19.33.19 Quit Horscht (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19.38.51 Part WalkGood 19.41.20 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) 19.41.20 Quit Bagder (Changing host) 19.41.20 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) 19.50.38 Quit mortalis (Quit: Page closed) 19.54.58 Join mortalis [0] (~4d6c62b0@www.haxx.se) 20.03.42 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.04.33 Join soap__ [0] (~soap@94.75.232.194) 20.07.15 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.07.35 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@203.184.50.187) 20.08.22 Quit soap_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20.08.31 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.08.40 Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@203.184.50.187) 20.11.36 Join IMBAtvMoley [0] (~IMBA@rrcs-67-52-57-114.west.biz.rr.com) 20.11.39 Part IMBAtvMoley 20.13.36 # New commit by 03fredwbauer (r30606): glyph_bytes() should pad to an even number 20.14.13 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Remote host closed the connection) 20.15.56 # r30606 build result: All green 20.25.05 Join y4n [0] (y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 20.30.17 # freddyb, does that fix some recent bug? 20.33.33 # Nothing major, but you would not get room for the requested number of glyphs if glyph_bytes() was odd. It was there for a while... 20.36.11 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 20.44.35 Join dfkt|n_ [0] (dfktn@unaffiliated/dfkt) 20.46.33 Quit dfkt|n (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 20.49.17 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0751.kin.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU) 20.52.47 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3AB30.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.52.58 Quit Keripo (Client Quit) 20.53.06 # Is there no interest in FS#12293? If someone can live with just 250 glyphs, it saves 48,000 bytes on CabbieV2 (ipod) and 86,000 bytes on iLike... 20.53.08 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12293 3Global default glyph size setting for gui/skins (patches, new) 20.54.35 Quit Farthen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20.55.26 Join me [0] (~d99bc2a5@www.haxx.se) 20.55.53 Nick me is now known as Guest24202 (~d99bc2a5@www.haxx.se) 20.56.16 # * bertrik thinks about making a 96x96 cabbiev2 20.56.16 Quit Guest24202 (Client Quit) 20.58.04 Join Farthen [0] (~Farthen@2a01:4f8:101:2a4:0:bc28:b2e1:9) 20.59.49 # What would be a good way of doing this? perhaps take the 128x128 theme and scale that down? 21.00.04 Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) 21.01.32 # i would just truncate them and then let someone else fix the images once theres a working port :) 21.13.34 Quit soap__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.13.45 # does "ldmpc" in rockbox evaluate to "ldmia!{...}; bx lr" ? 21.16.56 # depends on the arm version ? 21.20.25 Quit mortalis (Quit: CGI:IRC) 21.21.00 # yeah i guess if i'm doing armv5 code i can just use "ldmia sp!, {r4-r11, pc}" 21.22.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.37.07 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]) 21.41.02 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 21.49.44 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21.55.05 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 22.00.28 # New commit by 03bluebrother (r30607): Replace bootloader object rules with suffix rules. 22.02.04 # r30607 build result: All green 22.05.18 # * Zagor does the 94 second build dance 22.08.00 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) 22.13.32 Quit dfkt|n_ () 22.14.12 # We've moved Gerrit to gerrit.rockbox.org and it's all working 22.14.15 # Thanks very much to Zagor 22.14.38 # wow 22.15.01 # Well, that's only step 1 22.15.13 # we still need to set up automatic mirroring, migrate all the build infrastructure, etc :) 22.15.22 # but it's now on our machine instead of the random vps it was on 22.15.27 # * Lalufu is bisecting an mini 2g crash 22.15.30 # so, progress :) 22.18.53 Quit y4n (Quit: PANTS OFF!) 22.21.49 # so, discontinuing the svn? 22.23.08 # Viperfang: yes, eventually 22.28.01 Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) 22.29.41 Join fml [0] (~chatzilla@manz-590f1519.pool.mediaWays.net) 22.32.21 Quit fml (Client Quit) 22.36.16 # JdGordon: I'm afraid 30589 broke something in my ipod mini 2g. 22.36.48 # start playing a song, insert USB, wait for the disk to mount, pull usb. instant Data abort. 22.37.22 # is there a way to get a coredump out of the thing? 22.37.29 # no 22.37.36 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22.41.00 # Lalufu: the first address is the place in the code it crashes at, which you can then use to find the code using the elf file and objdump. In this case I'll bet it's in font_get() 22.42.03 # let's see... 22.42.43 # hm. starting a song _after_ pulling USB seems to be unhealthy as well. 22.43.05 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 22.44.27 # font_unload() it is. 22.46.24 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 22.47.57 # JdGordon: FS#12295 22.47.57 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12295 3Commit 30589 causes repeatable iPod Mini 2G crash (bugs, unconfirmed) 22.51.25 # New commit by 03bluebrother (r30608): Prevent unnecessary rebuilding of libs. ... 22.52.51 # * Torne looks at the svn properties and gags slightly 22.53.09 # so, for various files we have svn:keywords set to various keywords 22.53.09 # bertrik: if nothing has changed then the 128x128 port is one of the worst already, not sure if it's a good idea to depend on that ;) 22.53.12 # r30608 build result: All green 22.53.27 # including "Data" "native" and "Larent Gautier 12/01/09 R23800" 22.53.39 # we do? 22.53.44 # haha 22.54.12 # * Torne is intending to solve this via the cunning "throw away all keywords" mechanism 22.54.21 # pixelma, ok, I guess I'm taking too many steps ahead with the sansa clip zip anyway ... 22.54.55 # "throw away" as in simply remove them or as in remove all the lines from the sources as well? 22.55.20 # remove the lines from the sources as well 22.55.44 # good idea. I was considering to do that for Rockbox Utility a while ago as well :) 22.58.26 # anyway, looks like I can now finish voice string corrections for Rockbox Utility 23.16.21 Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) 23.16.39 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23.22.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.28.07 # New commit by 03bluebrother (r30609): Rockbox Utility TTS: implement reading TTS vendor. ... 23.29.59 # r30609 build result: All green 23.38.49 Quit ender` (Quit: 'And you have to shout -' He tried to remember some far-off reading. '- er, bonsai. Yes. Bonsai!' -- Terry Pratchett: Reaper Man) 23.50.49 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) 23.56.33 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@165.123.49.206)