--- Log for 18.10.111 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 14 days and 16 hours ago 00.00.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.11.56 Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) 00.12.05 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 00.21.42 Join RoC_MasterMind [0] (~Free@c-71-199-242-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) 00.21.48 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00.24.19 Join kadoban [0] (~kadoban@ip98-165-177-158.ph.ph.cox.net) 00.28.29 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!) 00.35.00 Quit kadoban (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.35.23 Join kadoban [0] (~kadoban@ip98-165-177-158.ph.ph.cox.net) 00.35.26 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 00.35.28 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 00.36.49 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.static.tpgi.com.au) 00.39.51 Quit matze` (Remote host closed the connection) 00.41.36 Quit RoC_MasterMind (Quit: Leaving) 00.45.03 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 00.45.04 Quit mudd1 (Read error: Operation timed out) 00.45.09 Part Zagor 00.45.20 # Zagor: I don't see why not. That very low hanging fruit. 00.47.06 Quit kadoban (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.50.08 Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) 01.02.31 Quit tjb0607 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.03.20 Quit hilbert (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) 01.06.38 Join tjb0607 [0] (~quassel@208-100-128-206.bendbroadband.com) 01.07.39 # kugel: you broke skin fonts 01.22.06 Join freddyb [0] (~freddybbb@216.8.239.112.etczone.com) 01.25.42 # fs#12337 :/ 01.25.43 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12337 3r30773 breaks all skin fonts (bugs, new) 01.38.15 Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) 02.00.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.33.20 Join chkktri [0] (~chikakita@unaffiliated/chkktri) 02.33.28 # http://tails.bloodheaven.net/Temp%20folder/20111018_003.jpg 02.33.35 # what the hell? 02.34.00 # is that some kind of finger friendly interface? 02.34.33 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) 02.38.56 # chkktri: your pic isnt loading but yeah... new broken feature 02.51.12 Quit T44 (*.net *.split) 02.51.12 Quit antil33t (*.net *.split) 02.51.12 Quit KiwiCam (*.net *.split) 02.51.13 Quit chkktri (*.net *.split) 02.51.13 Quit mc2739 (*.net *.split) 02.51.13 Quit gevaerts (*.net *.split) 02.51.13 Quit [fred] (*.net *.split) 02.51.14 Quit jacekowski (*.net *.split) 02.51.14 Quit Utchybann (*.net *.split) 02.51.15 Quit scorche|sh (*.net *.split) 02.51.16 Quit emj (*.net *.split) 02.51.16 Quit feisar- (*.net *.split) 02.51.16 Quit Torne (*.net *.split) 02.51.17 Quit Slasheri (*.net *.split) 02.51.17 Quit tjb0607 (*.net *.split) 02.51.17 Quit Zarggg (*.net *.split) 02.51.17 Quit pixelma (*.net *.split) 02.51.17 Quit [sanyi] (*.net *.split) 02.51.18 Quit ThomasAH (*.net *.split) 02.51.18 Quit semitones (*.net *.split) 02.51.18 Quit GeekShadow (*.net *.split) 02.51.18 Quit polemon (*.net *.split) 02.51.19 Quit simabeis (*.net *.split) 02.51.19 Quit maraz (*.net *.split) 02.51.19 Quit Hadaka (*.net *.split) 02.55.11 Join chkktri [0] (~chikakita@unaffiliated/chkktri) 02.55.11 Join tjb0607 [0] (~quassel@208-100-128-206.bendbroadband.com) 02.55.11 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049014011.adsl.alicedsl.de) 02.55.11 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.139.169.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 02.55.11 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 02.55.11 Join KiwiCam [0] (~KiwiCAM@206.192.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) 02.55.11 Join pixelma [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 02.55.11 Join [sanyi] [0] (~sanyi@unaffiliated/alexanderc) 02.55.11 Join ThomasAH [0] (~thomas@aktaia.intevation.org) 02.55.11 Join polemon [0] (mcp@polemon.org) 02.55.11 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 02.55.11 Join emj [0] (~erik@themill.bok.nu) 02.55.11 Join gevaerts [0] (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) 02.55.11 Join feisar- [0] (jljhook@ihq.in) 02.55.11 Join [fred] [0] (fred@ircop.efnet.at) 02.55.11 Join semitones [0] (~quassel@ec2-50-16-41-37.compute-1.amazonaws.com) 02.55.11 Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@254.164.21.93.rev.sfr.net) 02.55.11 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 02.55.11 Join scorche|sh [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 02.55.11 Join Utchybann [0] (~Utchy@rps6752.ovh.net) 02.55.11 Join jacekowski [0] (jacekowski@jacekowski.org) 02.55.11 Join Slasheri [0] (miipekk@xen.ihme.org) 02.55.11 Join Hadaka [0] (~naked@naked.iki.fi) 02.55.11 Join maraz [0] (maraz@kapsi.fi) 02.55.11 Join simabeis [0] (~simabeis@lobmenschen.de) 03.06.28 # chkktri: which target is that? it looks pretty bad 03.15.43 Join [Saint] [0] (65628198@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.98.129.152) 03.20.00 Join chkktri_ [0] (~chika@83.149.48.110) 03.20.11 # it's cowon d 2 03.20.21 # d2* 03.20.40 # pic is still not loading? 03.26.43 # no, it loaded 03.28.37 # so, is it toggleable? 03.34.57 # there should be a setting somewhere 03.39.30 # can't find anything v_v 03.42.14 # <[Saint]> Gah! 03.42.19 # <[Saint]> It went in...didn't it. 03.42.26 # <[Saint]> bah, yep :-S 03.43.14 # hm? 03.43.34 # <[Saint]> this patch that's apparently broken the lists for you. 03.44.03 # <[Saint]> Or, the fonts rather. I scammed through the logs to find the image you're talking of, but I must have missed it. 03.44.34 # <[Saint]> you _should_ be able to toggle it in the desplay menu 03.44.43 Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) 03.44.43 # <[Saint]> (from what I remember of the patch) 03.44.51 # chkktri_: the setting is under System->Display->Touchscreen Settings->Line Padding in Lists 03.44.55 # <[Saint]> *display menu 03.46.57 # <[Saint]> chkktri_: Is the line selector using the foreground colour the theme? 03.47.20 # <[Saint]> that looks horrible (to me) and I would hope its not a result of this patch. 03.51.47 # oh 03.51.50 # thanks 03.52.05 # no that's not a result of patch 03.52.29 # <[Saint]> Hum...nice. :-S 03.52.44 # <[Saint]> chkktri_: did turning it off fix the line selector? 03.53.04 # yes 03.53.05 # thanks 03.53.31 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) 03.53.56 # * [Saint] wonders how that wasn't noticed during the testing this patch (apparently really didn't) recieve(d) 03.54.06 # What wasn't noticed? 03.54.10 # That it defaults to "on" or? 03.54.27 # <[Saint]> and also why it seems sane for this to default on! 03.54.37 # ? 03.54.42 # <[Saint]> Llorean: that it totally borks the line selector. 03.54.54 # He said it's *not* a result of the patch 03.55.20 # What's "borked" other than the line spacing? 03.55.27 # <[Saint]> Oh...whoops. I totally missread that. 03.55.37 # <[Saint]> nevermind, then. 03.55.41 # I don't think it's sane to have it default to widely spaced, but as a usability feature I can definitely see how someone might argue it's sane to default to on. 03.55.44 # * [Saint] skulks away. 03.56.03 # * [Saint] returns 03.56.14 # Since if you *need* it to be able to interact meaningfully due to cramped screen or whatever, having it on makes it easier to turn off, while having it off makes it harder to turn on. 03.56.25 # <[Saint]> Llorean: Yeah...I dont think it should default on for anything other than the fallback. 03.56.39 # <[Saint]> its arguable that the theme author accounted for list spacing already. 03.56.53 # <[Saint]> well...its not arguable, really. they likely did. 03.56.54 # the patch completly breaks themeing 03.57.04 # but.. yeah, not a big deal apparently! :p 03.57.23 # <[Saint]> Yeah...I would have been a LOT more vocal if I saw it go in. 03.57.32 # <[Saint]> I'm...not amused. 03.57.35 # I would say usability trumps themeing, and you can turn it off. 03.57.58 # <[Saint]> You can also turn it *on*, and magic to detect the fallback would have been easy to add. 03.58.12 # Then add it, and default it to disabled? 03.58.12 # <[Saint]> the fallback is the only case where this really matters. 03.58.39 # <[Saint]> Hahahaha...good luck, I love the sentiment. I could post all the patches in the world for that. 03.58.49 # <[Saint]> I sorely doubt it'd get committed. 03.59.05 # Then post one, and complain about it not getting committed after you've posted it, rather than hypothesizing that it wouldn't? 03.59.15 # <[Saint]> I raised my views on this (as did others) before commit. 03.59.29 # <[Saint]> ...it wasn't listened to, at all. 04.00.02 # <[Saint]> Even kugel mentioned that this is really needed for the fallback, but it still seemed "sane" to default on for all. 04.00.20 # <[Saint]> Its seven (probably more? ;)) kinds of stoopid IMO 04.00.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.01.40 # you're wasting your energy 04.01.55 # <[Saint]> The fallback is TOTALLY unusable without this, I'll admit that. And its really needed there. But if a user theme, or the default is unusable without this, then its the themes fault. 04.02.03 # In my opinion a feature like that would make the most sense if it were something like "space out lines if they're less than X height" where X is a physical measurement based on DPI rather than a pixel count 04.02.24 # In which case, defaulting to on would make perfect sense. 04.02.25 # <[Saint]> I see it useful if a user wants to *increse* the spacing a theme offers, optionally...but it *shouldn't* default on for user themes or the defautl. 04.03.05 # it defaults to "broken" on user themes 04.03.34 # <[Saint]> Yeah...dammit. I really wish I noticed the "I'm committing this" mail. 04.03.40 # <[Saint]> was there even one? 04.03.57 # a big thread 04.04.11 # to which there was plenty of "this isnt the way to do it" replies :/ 04.04.21 # <[Saint]> Oh, yeah. I know about the thread. But apparently I missed the "this is going in now" mail. 04.05.38 # <[Saint]> Bwahahahah....240x320 theme (of mine, for RaaA) gets 4 main menu items with this patch ;) 04.05.56 # <[Saint]> they used to all fit. 04.06.30 # * [Saint] will add the config magic to turn this off in his themes. 04.06.54 # Looking back at the thread, I don't see particularly much opposition. At least as many for as against. 04.07.34 # <[Saint]> I'm totally for the patch. Just not the default. 04.07.48 # <[Saint]> I've always been for it, I just think its insane that it defaults on. 04.08.20 # <[Saint]> it defaults on to catch the fallback theme, but, magic to detect a user theme didn't load could easily have been added. 04.08.27 # noone (including myself) is againt the feature. just the implemnetation was very rong on about 15 different levels 04.08.45 # Ah, you've taken me off ignore? 04.09.10 # surprise! 04.09.32 # Anyway, nobody really talked much about the implementation other than a discussion over the difference between skinned and unskinned lists, and one group saying "all lists should be skinned lists" and another saying "but until they are, this will fix issues" 04.09.56 # And as Torne mentioned, skins aren't DPI aware yet. 04.10.27 # So it seems like there's a path forward to removing this if someone really feels like it needs to be removed. 04.10.42 # <[Saint]> no one feels it needs to be removed. 04.10.46 # <[Saint]> Just a sane default. 04.11.06 # <[Saint]> Or rather, the appropriate magic to detect when its needed. 04.11.42 # <[Saint]> which, just to be an ass, I think I'll add...if even *I* can do it, then something is *seriously* wrong with the way it was implemented ;) 04.12.22 # <[Saint]> I'm about 99% sure the fallback case could be detected and this set to on in that case. 04.12.44 # <[Saint]> ie. "when its needed" 04.12.54 # if it was done using the skin engine *like ti should have been* then yes 04.13.45 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.13.47 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.13.49 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.14.35 # [Saint]: It's also needed when loading 'bad' themes. While it's the fault of the theme author, it is reasonable to want to be able to just switch to a better theme. 04.14.55 # I thought that's what the DPI-awareness of it was supposed to deal with. The "automatic" mode. 04.15.13 # Though it seems that there should be a target size for the automatic mode, which it appears there isn't. 04.15.18 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.15.18 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.15.32 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.20.33 # * [Saint] brain dumps 04.21.12 # <[Saint]> "things that are needed before the theme I'm working on can be totally usable:" 04.21.41 # <[Saint]> 1: touch region "none" to behave as other regions do (long/short press) 04.22.08 # <[Saint]> 2: a new .lang string "Screen Locked" 04.22.35 # <[Saint]> 3: ...probably something I'm forgetting. 04.22.38 # 3. a new skin maintainer 04.22.45 # <[Saint]> ;D 04.23.04 # skin engine maintainer even 04.23.32 # <[Saint]> Yeah, I was just about to say...I suppose *I* fal into the first category there. 04.23.37 # <[Saint]> *fall 04.28.09 Quit chkktri_ (Quit: Leaving) 04.29.31 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 04.29.45 Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 04.45.58 # <[Saint]> I still find it...um, I dunno....amusing, shocking(?) even that two people heavily invested in the Rockbox UI had (apparently) absoluely no say in this line height commit. 04.46.26 # <[Saint]> Perhaps I should give up being shocked about such things...its likely not, but sometimes it does feel like a personal agenda. 04.48.46 # I thought you both said your piece? Or are you suggesting that you should have veto power over any change that affects the UI? 04.49.53 # <[Saint]> No, not at all. But I do feel like what I said (I won't talk for Jd) was completely ignored. 04.50.25 # What's the difference between "ignored" and "heard, but deemed not a reason not to go forward"? 04.50.57 # <[Saint]> when it obviously *is* a reason not to go forward ;) 04.51.05 # That's subjective, though. 04.51.14 # <[Saint]> I think not, but, meh. 04.51.27 # Notice you said "I think". That's more or less the definition of subjective. 04.52.37 # [Saint]: just ignore it... 04.53.11 # thats not to say you arnt correct, just its not worth the effort complaining 04.53.16 # [Saint]: Basically, you're saying because your opinion wasn't followed, you weren't listened to. Or at least that's what I'm hearing. 04.54.28 Join saratoga_ [0] (9803c31c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.195.28) 04.59.05 # <[Saint]> Llorean: (last thing I'll say (at least for now) on it) I feel like the "do it right" attitude was thrown out the window. 04.59.51 # [Saint]: It's a solution that works, can be turned off, doesn't require anything but the use of a menu item to use. It has a bug that needs fixing, but it's a lot closer to "good enough" than several other things that have been contentious 05.01.15 Join kadoban [0] (~mud@ip98-165-177-158.ph.ph.cox.net) 05.01.16 # someone may as well revert the skin list commit... it is practically dead anyway 05.01.49 # Probably a good idea if there won't be someone finishing it. I imagine we'd get some RAM back? 05.02.05 # 3/th of fuck all 05.02.12 # 3/5th* 05.02.27 # Well if there's no real significant cost for keeping it around, then why bother? 05.11.06 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 05.16.09 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) 05.25.35 Join freddyb [0] (~freddybbb@216.8.239.112.etczone.com) 05.27.49 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 05.42.40 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) 05.48.07 Join Scr0mple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.static.tpgi.com.au) 05.49.03 Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 05.57.14 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p5DE4B108.dip.t-dialin.net) 06.00.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.01.06 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 06.10.25 Nick Whopper|Away is now known as Whopper (colin@about/cooking/sandwich/whopper) 06.15.20 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@wireless.sit-co.net) 06.16.58 Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) 06.44.10 Quit kadoban (Remote host closed the connection) 06.47.52 Quit simabeis (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06.55.22 Join simabeis [0] (~simabeis@lobmenschen.de) 07.02.24 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 07.15.58 Quit saratoga_ (Quit: Page closed) 07.19.02 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B67FE2.dip.t-dialin.net) 07.29.56 Join markun [0] (~markun@s3eea32f5.adsl.wanadoo.nl) 07.42.30 Quit simonlnu (Quit: bbiab) 08.00.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.04.02 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0751.kin.resnet.group.upenn.edu) 08.08.22 Join GodEater_ [0] (93722cd0@rockbox/staff/GodEater) 08.08.24 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08.14.10 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]) 08.21.16 # * GodEater_ is impressed with this morning's "Ladies and Gentlemen" email. 08.21.26 # I had no idea anyone was working on the Hifiman! 08.22.03 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 08.22.52 Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) 08.25.15 Join mortalis [0] (~mortalis@77.108.98.176) 08.37.24 Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.43.04 Join n17ikh [0] (~n17ikh@c-174-56-150-44.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) 08.51.13 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.58.26 Join ender` [0] (~ender@foo.eternallybored.org) 09.14.26 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 09.14.26 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 09.14.26 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 09.15.56 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) 09.30.59 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 09.32.04 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09.32.08 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.39.45 # GodEater_: there was a tracker task about it open for a bit 09.40.55 Quit Scr0mple (Quit: Leaving) 09.53.23 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 10.00.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.07.17 # [Saint]: you were not ignored. it was mainly you that made me adding the config in the first place 10.18.38 # <[Saint]> Right, I'm still very much in belief that the default for user skins and the default skin should be off, though. That's all I object to. I'll be having a look this evening at adding magic to detect the failsafe theme and default to on in this case only. 10.19.13 # <[Saint]> I've always liked the idea of the patch, I think its great. The only thing that bugs me is that it defaults on. 10.23.25 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0751.kin.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU) 10.23.42 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@sphinx.lix.polytechnique.fr) 10.23.42 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 10.23.43 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 10.26.49 # [Saint]: I don't know what's wrong. you can toggle it off in all your themes 10.27.36 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 10.27.48 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 10.27.53 # I don't think I said "it defaults to on specifically for the fallback theme". I rather said I want it to Just Work with any theme, which includes the fallback one 10.28.54 # <[Saint]> Its existing themes that it will suddenly "break" (as happened this afternoon, my time, when a D2 user came in and wanted to know what was wrong with his theme all of a sudden) that bothers me. 10.30.03 # <[Saint]> The value also needs to be added to the list of accepted config values for the themesite, otherwise theme authors won't actually be able to turn this off with a theme. 10.30.14 # that happens. we tend to break themes once in a while, that's why we offer a way to update them; we never cried lout because of that, and I don't see a need to do this now 10.30.59 # err... you completly broke everything.... 10.31.01 # with no fix 10.31.44 # [Saint]: See, what you see as breakage was one of my goals 10.32.17 # kugel: no, your focus was on the built-in theme. not to break all existing themes. 10.32.22 # <[Saint]> To make it so that theme authors can't actually guarantee the theme will look as they intend it to? 10.33.29 # breaking themes is painful and should be avoided if possible. are you saying enabling auto on for built-in only is impossible? 10.34.05 # If auto is enabled for built-in only by default, it should also not be something that can be changed on the theme-site. 10.34.16 # I wonder when I said I was focusing on the built-in one only 10.34.54 # Zagor: that would be the first time we do this, and it would most certainly require a hardcoded hack somewhere in the code 10.35.10 # the fallback theme *is* hardcoded 10.35.21 # If it's to be considered a part of themes (in terms of updating the theme site to allow it), then on-by-default makes sense since themes can override it going forward. 10.35.24 # we broke existing themes numerous times without uproar, and this doesn't even affect released targets 10.35.45 # e.g. the touchregion renaming 10.36.12 # kugel: How does auto work? if the line height is already large due to a large font does it not add spacing? 10.36.22 # I don't like this cavalier attitude to our contributors 10.36.47 # Llorean: it's a min height based on the dpi. if the font is larger it doesnt pad 10.37.07 # So effectively, it's a minimum line spacing. Themes that are already large shouldn't be affected (and if they are, it's a bug) 10.37.21 # That sounds reasonable for a "defaults to on" since it prevents themes with tiny lines from being hard to disable. 10.38.08 # I haven't tried the patch yet. [Saint], what broke exactly? 10.38.18 # s/patch/change/. 10.38.24 # Zagor: There's a bug posted on the tracker about skin fonts. 10.38.44 # Zagor: there's also the case a theme doesn't load correctly, like if the font wasnt found (it may be in the not installed font package) 10.38.48 # Zagor: The D2 user on the other hand just had lines spaced out more than they were before (the D2 isn't really a finger target, coming with a stylus, so some themes have quite small lines) and it was resolved by simply turning the feature off 10.39.10 # I would argue that this feature might either default to off on Stylus targets, or have a smaller minimum spacing. 10.39.16 # thinking about it, it's not easily possible to detect teh built-in theme, since themes are still only ordinary .cfg files 10.39.31 # <[Saint]> Zagor: Besides the bug posted on the tracker, I also think the "default on for user themes" thing to be "broken". 10.39.46 # Zagor: see tonights logs. someone came and was surprised by the new line height 10.39.49 # * JdGordon is currently on the phone but has stuff to but in with... 10.40.17 # [Saint]: Assuming the minimum is actually well chosen, it shouldn't *affect* most usable themes. 10.40.34 # that user must be using the grid mode, I don't think he could use the lists with the font that the screenshot had 10.41.26 # <[Saint]> From the brief look I had this afternoon. I certainly think its possible to detect the failsafe case and only activate "auto" then. 10.41.59 # I don't think the failsafe is the only time you'd want expanded line spacing. 10.42.01 # <[Saint]> I'm not /too/ familiar with the skin engine and the particulars with the failsafe theme, though. 10.42.11 # <[Saint]> Llorean: No, certainly not. 10.42.11 # As kugel mentioned, a missing font is another, for example. 10.42.17 # kugel: that user wasnt using skin lists at all 10.42.22 # Since it's *minimum* spacing, it seems the argument should be about a sane minimum 10.42.24 # <[Saint]> Its the only time its *needed* though. 10.42.32 # and the patch complelty broke *all* skin fonts, *everywhere* 10.42.41 # <[Saint]> Llorean: Which the theme should take care of. 10.42.50 # <[Saint]> If its not usuable, its the fault of them theme. 10.42.53 # JdGordon: yes. that's an unintentional bug 10.43.15 # [Saint]: And there's no reason for the OS not to step in in those situations, if the theme's bad, allowing the user to override if they want to use a bad theme 10.43.19 # I can't work on a fix at work 10.43.23 # which should have been tested for really.. but whatever 10.43.26 # [Saint]: Meanwhile, if the minimum is "sane" the patch shouldn't actually affect good themes at all. 10.44.13 # JdGordon: you know yourself how testing at rockbox works. you don't get it even if you ask for it 10.44.47 # sure, but using a skin font shold have been an obvious test case 10.44.57 # kugel: this should only be enabled on touch targets, right? 10.44.59 # im also guilyty of such omision so no big deal 10.45.02 # <[Saint]> I just think, preferably. It should default on (to "auto") in the failsafe case, and off for user theme, gut give the option for the user to expand the padding if they want to as opposed to forcing it on. 10.45.06 # Zagor: yes 10.45.25 # <[Saint]> *but give 10.45.39 # [Saint]: It should only expand if line size is below a certain amount. Which means if that amount is sane, it should only expand for non-sane themes. That seems extremely reasonable. 10.45.51 # It in itself is a sort of failsafe. 10.45.56 # * JdGordon sings "the implementation is just broken and should never have been commited" the correct patch would have been much smaller and more useful for everyone 10.46.03 # missing font is not hard to detect. the code chooses the fallback font, and could enable auto height there. 10.46.22 # <[Saint]> Zagor: Good point. 10.46.32 # Zagor: Bad font choices because the theme's for another device with the same screen size/shape though, is different and hard to correct for once the theme is loaded. 10.46.48 # can i point out that if the implementation I wanted was used (i.e hardcoding the sbs) then the fallback is immediatly handled 10.46.55 # as is missing fonts 10.47.02 # Zagor: You may discover that the 320x200 theme is unusable realistically with a touchscreen after loading. A minimum line height to ensure that you could still interact wouldn't hurt in those cases. 10.47.41 # Llorean: true. I suppose a conservative minimum size would fix most breakages. 10.48.12 # Zagor: That's how I feel. Since it's a minimum, and not just an "add X amount to all lines" if the value is picked well, it shouldn't affect themes that are usable on the device, and if the user disagrees with our definition of usable it's a setting and can be disabled. 10.48.22 # also, what happened to yesterday being the feature freeze? 10.48.36 # well, the auto setting is rather conservative already (in my opinion). I actually reduced the height due to [Saint]'s complained 10.48.41 # complaint* 10.48.46 # JdGordon: alexp wasn't around so nobody took it on himself to do it :) 10.48.58 # * Llorean can't comment on whether or not the line height is sane. 10.49.05 # To be honest, it really didn't look sane at all on the D2 screenshot. 10.49.29 # logbot: you have a d2 don't you? 10.49.33 # Llorean: ^ 10.49.35 # Yeah 10.49.57 # But I prefer grid mode, and used the stylus when not in it anyway. So for fingers it may be more reasonable. 10.50.21 # in my memory the screen is tiny, and that screenshot seems about right (to enable the thumb to be used) 10.50.28 # an owner might think diffferently 10.50.28 # The screen is pretty tiny 10.50.33 # where is this d2 screenshot? I only see JdGordon's e200 bug report. 10.50.53 # http://tails.bloodheaven.net/Temp%20folder/20111018_003.jpg 10.50.59 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10.51.07 # Zagor: JdGordon's report is a real bug, not intended. 10.51.13 # ok 10.51.23 # For reference, the entire height of the D2 screen is about two thumb widths for me 10.51.51 # So for finger use, that is actually probably close to right, though I think I personally would narrow it a little bit more. But I also have skinny fingers. 10.51.52 # saint's complaint is different 10.52.08 # saints complaint is mostly missing the point 10.52.16 # * Llorean just digged up his D2 to see how big it really is rather than depending on memory 10.53.20 # that screenshot should be about unusable, however I suspect grid mode is on 10.53.29 # unusable without list spacing* 10.53.55 # what makes you say that? 10.54.17 # remember grid mode is off by default 10.54.17 # kugel: He may use the stylus. It came with one. 10.54.23 # JdGordon: not on the d2 10.54.37 Quit Rob2222 (Quit: Rob2222) 10.54.39 # JdGordon: thanks to you actually :P 10.54.54 # But it'd certainly be nearly unusable without a stylus. With a font size like that 2 lines would fit under the tip of my pinky 10.54.59 # Llorean: right. I forgot about the stylus 10.56.09 # I sitll wonder why you assume he has grid mode on.. he didnt say anything about it? 10.56.56 # the font looks too small to be used with the thumb to me 10.56.59 # JdGordon: Forgot about the stylus, and it really would be very nearly unusably small with a finger with that font. So he's just guessing, but a not-to-unreasonable guess ignoring the stylus 10.58.42 # why on earth is the title padded also? 10.59.14 # That seems unusual to me too. 10.59.32 # I haven't used a touchscreen device in a while. That doesn't do anything like "go up/back a level" or anything, does it? 10.59.34 # it can be clicked too 11.00.09 # Llorean: it does "go to the main menu"# 11.00.18 # Ah, okay 11.00.47 # it looked very strange without too 11.01.23 # you said this wasnt about looks thugh! 11.01.56 # He said "too." 11.07.47 # Zagor: your complaint was based on JdGordon's bug report, right? 11.08.42 # no, rather on saints 11.09.35 # can we please have a civil discussion about reverting it and doing it correctly using the skin engine and fixing the skin lists where it is currently missing bits? 11.10.07 # this implementation is totally useless for everyone who wants to skin the list *at all* 11.10.32 # I was opening the discussion on the ml pre-commit to not discuss reverting post-commit 11.10.59 # and i was very strongly against the commit to begin with... 11.11.09 # never against the feature, always against the implementation 11.11.12 # but you also said "I'm out" 11.11.22 # so revert skin lists 11.11.34 # noone else seems to care at all about rockbox themeing anymore 11.11.34 # JdGordon: Isn't your usual stance "don't object to the implementation unless you're willing to write it the way you think is right"? 11.11.54 # Are you offering to implement it the way you think is the right way, then? 11.12.15 # http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2011-10/0047.shtml 11.12.19 # I think we should keep it and let kugel fix it. if it's not fixed by next monday, we'll revert it for the release 11.12.40 # Zagor: The question though is what needs fixed. 11.12.59 # Zagor: Obviously the bug with fonts needs fixed, but JdGordon's complaint is beyond that scope. 11.13.06 # JdGordon: FS#12330 is also implemented in the classic lists, not in the skinned lists 11.13.07 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12330 3Add a nice UI to configure database search directories (patches, new) 11.13.16 # why are you complaining about me doing so? 11.13.22 # kugel: uh show me where that is ready for commit? 11.13.48 # that patch also has nothing to do with the indenting implementation 11.13.50 # JdGordon: Does your patch do the exact same thing (minimum line height, based on screen DPI)? 11.14.11 # JdGordon: ah so it isnt? I was confused because you already put it on FS (which should mean: look at this and commit please) 11.14.32 # kugel: No, flyspray means "this patch is moving toward being ready for commit" 11.14.42 # kugel: it usually means "look at this and comment, please" 11.14.53 # It doesn't indicate readiness, just intent. 11.15.01 # okay 11.15.03 # Llorean: why are you being obtuse as always? look at the response i got to that message... 11.15.34 # JdGordon: I just asked a yes/no question. Could you perhaps answer it without being insulting, rather than demanding I read the whole thread looking for things I skimmed over or missed? 11.15.56 # I thought we were trying to be civil here. 11.16.14 # read the thread, then come back 11.16.15 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 11.16.48 # JdGordon: The next post says that your patch *doesn't work* 11.16.49 # 100% of the list and lcd and viewport change could have been done in a the skin engine 11.16.57 # So am I to take it then, that you haven't implemented it "the right way" yet? 11.17.11 # JdGordon: yes but we don't use the skinned list in fallback theme so that wouldn't help 11.17.22 # we figured that the skin engine isn't ready yet. for a) bugs and b) other limitations 11.17.33 # it's a longer process to merge the lists and Do It Right 11.17.48 # Zagor: my proof of concept patch does use the skin engine for the fallback 11.17.52 # that was the whole point 11.17.52 # Meanwhile, other than the bug the existing patch "does what it's supposed to do" 11.18.19 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust848.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 11.18.34 # so instead of fixing bugs which need to be fixed anyway, he's added cruft to a bunch of code which didnt need it 11.19.17 # Isn't it cruft that would be removed anyway once all lists are skinned? 11.19.40 # it will have to be now wont it... 11.21.34 # kugel: selective blindeness much? "this also uses a half done patch to make lists handle indenting, not done for the skin list but if this is actually wanted that can be easily added" 11.21.42 # Is there some reason other than "its' not the best way to do it" that you're objecting to this? 11.21.53 # I'm just trying to get all the problems with it out in the air. 11.22.15 # because with me gone the skin engine is dead pretty much... who is going to finish skin lists? 11.22.34 # JdGordon: let's be honest, you aren't gone 11.22.43 # especially when the biggest issue is no kinetic scrolling, which kugel implemented and should know what needs fixing 11.22.53 # which is by all means good 11.23.04 # find someone to take over skinning and i *am* 11.23.11 # i have a very hard time letting go of it 11.24.00 # im really more annoyed that my word means so little seen as it is deeply fiddling with code i've been the only one maiting for the last ages... if someone thinks that is arrogant of me then, well... ok 11.24.17 # there is a cleaner way to do this, but that was ignored 11.24.35 # s/ignored/shot down as an insult/ 11.25.05 # I honestly dont think this feature will be done in skin engine unless I do it.. 11.25.07 # nobody disagreed that it should be done in the skin engine 11.25.30 # kugel: huh? 11.25.30 # so we like code duplication now? 11.26.53 # no, we happily remove the old code once the replacement is ready 11.27.00 # it's not, as of now, though 11.27.09 # I think it's reasonable, as this is a usability feature, that until the skin engine is ready for it there be an alternative implementation of it. Especially if it's likely the skin engine is about to get less maintained. 11.27.17 # what was the rush? 11.27.28 # Usability stands in the way of releases. How it looks doesn't. 11.27.48 # err... no targets this affects are in the stable category 11.28.48 # Yes, and one issues that could be debated about promoting them is that our UI is at times a bit crap on touch. 11.28.57 # there was no rush. it was discussed for almost a week, then calmed down for another (almost) week 11.29.43 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) 11.30.13 # and commited even if the feature was debatable 11.30.46 # Why is that remarkable? It happens pretty frequently that not everyone is for a feature. 11.31.16 # actually, the implementation was/is debatable, not the feature 11.31.28 # as long as this is corrected to not negatively affect stable targets, I'm fine with having it in as a work-in-progress 11.31.51 # I don't think every commit has to be 100% correct first shot. we work iteratively. 11.31.56 # Zagor: IIUC it's already not supposed to affect stable targets, since none are touch, so where it does is already a bug 11.32.14 # yet if I commited my version of the main menu rewrking patch the shitstorm would have been huge... 11.32.27 # the important thing in my view is that the dev is active and fixes issues that are found. and I see no reason to doubt kugels willingness to do this. 11.32.36 # we often block quick fixes and push 'do it right' solution - why this time this is different? 11.32.42 # JdGordon: yes, that would most certainly affect stable targets 11.33.02 # Zagor: sure, but this topic had a clearly better (even kugel admited that skin lists were the way to go) solution which was ignored in favour of the current version 11.33.14 # JdGordon: That also is disagreement on a feature, rather than an implementation. 11.33.21 # wodz: because those times I have not voiced my opinion? I have always been on the "slack" end of the requirement scale. 11.33.35 # Nothing blocks the better solution here, whereas the menu reorganization would've contradicted directly alternatives. 11.33.49 # JdGordon: it only had a better concept, not a better implementation. 11.33.58 # once we have the better implementation, that's what we should commit 11.34.40 # that's how I see it too 11.34.48 # wodz: Sometimes bad implementations get removed (ones where user visible parts of it are done contrary to ways its decided users should interact with the software, for example) 11.34.53 # This one isn't even a user visible difference, really 11.34.55 # you have no intention of fixing the implementation thouhg 11.35.33 # kugel: ^ 11.35.57 # JdGordon: I personally have a very definite intention of seeing our dual lists merged into one 11.35.58 # It's a solution that works, and not only that, would probably be considered "okay" if skinnable lists weren't another feature, and when the skinnable list feature is complete and able to be adapted to this, will be removed, right? 11.36.26 # Zagor: all the more reason to not let anyone add features to one and not the other 11.37.04 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11.37.14 # That said, untill you said native lists were "deprecated" i never really thought about it 11.37.19 # I disagree. I can't (and won't) declare "there shall be no modifications before list merge" 11.38.28 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p5DE4B108.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.38.33 # I wouldn't say native or skinned lists are deprecated. I just think we should have one list that handles all cases. 11.38.55 # i think you used a softer phrase, someone used the d word in the mailing list :) 11.40.04 # I used deprecated 11.41.26 # can anyone explain why the lcd_puts functions draw the selection bar also? 11.42.07 # other topic - what about -Os on ARMs? 11.42.24 # please no :) 11.42.28 # wodz: absolutely 11.42.32 # but not before release 11.42.43 # fair 11.43.20 # Zagor: how are you going with the lcd api fiddling? I think alot of my issue is more that the lcd driver does the line height instead of the list code becasue it is all line instead of pixel based 11.43.22 # why would you want Os? I expect it to slow things down. Most isn't performance sensitive, but some places are 11.43.51 # kugel: Os is actually (far) more optimized that -O 11.44.12 # Linux even removed the kconfig option (it defaulted to off before) because Os has mostly bad effects 11.44.20 # plus 20-40 KB smaller on most targets 11.44.32 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 11.44.32 # Zagor: that's an argument for O2 in my book :p 11.44.33 Join bluebrother^ [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 11.44.45 # in my tests Os was faster always 11.44.54 # O2 is bigger and slower than Os 11.45.05 # why should O2 be slower? 11.45.19 # because it doesn't inline 11.45.29 # it's supposed to be faster, and considering what the web says about it it is 11.45.37 # (like gcc mailing lists) 11.45.55 # O2 does inline, even more aggressively that Os 11.46.10 # kugel: I guess it's faster on x86 11.46.32 # Os stops inling once it has a bad effect on the size (i.e. the second call) 11.46.33 # kugel: compare the output of "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -c -Q -Os −−help=optimizers" and "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -c -Q -O2 −−help=optimizers" 11.47.01 # most work on arms is done with -Os and thats what majority use 11.47.27 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11.47.51 # don't the codec guys always test these things? 11.47.58 # there's 27 different optimization algorithms enabled on Os that are disabled on O2 11.48.19 # codecs have their own O flags. this only concerns core. 11.48.28 Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@2.118.197.77.rev.sfr.net) 11.48.35 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g226069004.adsl.alicedsl.de) 11.48.38 # btw. test of thumb performance shows we are marginally affected by optimization level used since most critical parts are compiled with own set of flags and are asm optimized 11.48.56 # Zagor: well, it's a fact that O2 is supposed to (by the authors) than Os. I don't know what those 27 algorithms do 11.49.20 Join swilde [0] (~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org) 11.49.21 # wodz: right, that's true 11.49.36 # wodz: exactly. and since we always scream about every dozen bytes wasted binsize, reclaiming 20-40 KB should be a no-brainer. 11.49.50 # Zagor: exactly 11.49.57 # wodz: did you check O2? 11.50.17 # kugel: yes but quite long ago 11.50.22 # kugel: somehow I believe the output of the compiler more than man pages and lists posts 11.50.36 # not that it couldn't be wrong, of course 11.50.51 # it wasn't substantially faster than Os but considerably bigger 11.51.05 # it could also mean it applies 27 size optimizations, some of which could have a negative impact on speed 11.51.24 # kugel: again, this is core. 11.51.37 # it's mostly idling anyway 11.52.24 # right. the most sensitive parts are ASM'd 11.52.31 # and not to mention it's hard to tell what is the impact of reduced mem hit 12.00.36 # 39616 bytes gain on sansac200 12.00.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.23.08 Join mortalis [0] (~c3133585@www.haxx.se) 12.26.26 # mortalis: what is relation between HM-601/HM-602/HM-802 in terms of hardware? 12.27.50 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12.33.15 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 12.35.49 # wodz: 602 can work as usb dac, I think it's hardware controled. 801 has another buttons, bigger battery capacity, DAC is PCM1704, also can work as usb DAC. 12.37.24 # 1) what about the SoC - do they all use rk27xx? 2) Is the dac feature somehow controlled from the firmware (aka some gpio to activate)? 3) I guess this units do not have FM right? 12.38.32 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@cpe-174-111-016-189.triad.res.rr.com) 12.38.32 Quit sinthetek (Changing host) 12.38.32 Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek) 12.43.27 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940) 12.45.08 # wodz: 1) yes, they all use rk2706b and the same lcd 2) As I sayed I guess it hardware controled, but I don't know it exactly. GPIO may be used to determine when usb inserted in DAC slot. 3) Yes. You are right 12.46.30 # *said 12.47.38 # mortalis: ok. I think you should post to ML about volume controll - maybe someone will have bright idea how to deal with this. 12.48.00 # mortalis: are you going to work on missing lowlevel stuff? 12.49.41 # wodz: Yes, but I don't have much time to do it, so progress will be slow. 12.50.34 # I don't have much free time either 12.51.01 # mortalis: In this case it would be nice to not overlap the work 12.51.47 # agree 12.52.06 # what is your priority? 12.53.44 # I think it would be nice to make work nand or usb. 12.54.08 # mortalis: I have started work on both 12.54.36 # usb seems to be easier but quite tricky due to the design of usb core 12.54.39 Join Silicium [0] (~marco@mail.2am.ch) 12.54.43 # hi there 12.54.49 # nand is a lot of dissasembly work 12.54.58 # i have a short question about the unsupported cowon D2+ 12.55.20 # 2 years ago i installed RB successfully on that device but now it wont work. no idea why 12.55.42 # wodz: how about dual boot? 12.55.52 # mortalis: I failed so far. 12.56.13 # i installed a new bootloader, r30119M-110703 and the nightly build (precompiled) 12.56.39 # but the device just hangs in the bootloader, there is only the bootloader screen 12.56.41 # for unknown reason loading original s2 bootloader dumped from flash to the dram do nothing. 12.57.24 # when i insert a mmc card (which is not supported) it says blabla ata error file not found, that means the bootloader works and is trying to read files from the local FS 12.57.33 # mortalis: I started dissasembling s2 bootloader - I guess it sets some magic flag somewhere but this will take a while for sure 12.58.01 # so, is it possible to attach a console to the bootloader (usb) for checking why rockbox wont boot? 12.58.20 # Silicium: no AFAIK 12.58.55 # also in the past days *2 years ago) i had a directory on the internal flash which was called "multiboot" and contained a binary 12.59.03 # thats not needed, right? 12.59.08 # or not longer needed 12.59.22 # mortalis: maybe you could look at USB - most of my work is in svn 12.59.29 # i just have a .rockbox directory 12.59.56 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 13.01.44 # hmm, no idea? 13.02.22 # is there no generic problem which prevent from booting the rockbox kernel? 13.02.35 # wodz: ok, I can work on USB 13.03.28 # Silicium: we have a few issues in current trunk but binary should boot AFAIK 13.04.09 # mortalis: ok I'll dig in nand/ftl 13.04.48 # mortalis: but if you find out how to use lcdif properly I'll buy you a beer or two :-) 13.05.21 # hmm ok 13.05.25 # then i will compile byself 13.05.25 # thx 13.05.57 # but actually, there is no output, if there are problems, it should come to an error at booting, right? 13.07.03 # wodz: btw, looks like we always use 44.1kHz sample rate. I added print pcm_fsel to debug info, and tried play some files with different sample rate. pcm_fsel is always 2 which means 44.1kHz 13.07.36 # Silicium: if you can compile yourself - add a bunch of printfs to see where it hangs 13.08.30 # yep, printf will printed on the screen from pointing to the binary? 13.08.38 # mortalis: I am not pcm subsystem expert - this is question to JhMikeS most probably 13.09.00 # Silicium: I don't understand 13.09.38 # from which bootstep is printf able to print to the device screen? 13.09.54 # after lcd and fonts init 13.10.08 # so pretty early 13.10.08 # haha rly but is that very early? 13.10.10 # ok 13.10.20 # thx 13.11.27 # mortalis: I recall our DSP subsystem is 44.1kHz centric - maybe thats the reason 13.12.47 # and finally: could it be that r3019M-110703 bootloader isnt compatible with the actual rockbox os? 13.12.52 # kernel 13.12.57 # unlikely 13.13.02 # ok 13.24.10 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 13.26.33 Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@adsl-89-217-62-79.adslplus.ch) 13.44.22 Quit ReimuHak_ (Quit: Leaving...) 13.45.48 Quit hilbert (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 13.48.36 Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@adsl-89-217-62-79.adslplus.ch) 13.49.53 # JdGordon: my api fiddling is going well-ish. I'm a bit bothered by not being able to commit stuff in reasonable portions. maybe I should make a branch. 13.51.13 # Silicium: do you have the .rockbox folder on an SD card or on the internal memory? I *believe* the D2s need the former but I'm not sure 13.51.21 # Zagor: call it a bug fix :) 13.52.02 # well it is, in some twisted sense. :) 13.52.55 # pixelma: internal memory 13.53.14 # external will just work with SD and internal worked fine but RO 14.00.59 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.02.16 # well, what I seem to remember is that the Rockbox bootloader expects the firmware to be on the SD (because Rockbox is unable to write to the internal memory and needs to for some things, e.g. resume position) 14.02.26 # in the D2 case 14.03.12 # Zagor: branch sounds like a good idea 14.04.29 # pixelma: hmm, but when no sd card is inserted, it searchs on the local device 14.04.46 # is this defined in the bootloader? 14.05.05 # so i will have a look into 14.15.18 # allright, final question: where is the mktccboot binary? its not longer in the SDK 14.16.39 # ah 14.16.40 # :D 14.19.23 # yay, debug output works :) 14.19.56 # its hanging at mount 14.24.49 Quit mortalis (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) 14.35.02 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940) 14.35.54 Quit [Saint] (Client Quit) 14.39.01 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940) 14.44.26 Quit Rob2222 (Quit: Rob2222) 14.55.36 # New commit by 03zagor (r30781): New branch for LCD work. 15.13.23 # shouldn't FS#12186 be closed? 15.13.23 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12186 3GSoC/Buflib: Put extended buflib into core (patches, new) 15.13.48 # yes, probably 15.15.19 Join chkktri_ [0] (chikakitaa@ip-78-139-196-175.danet.in) 15.16.18 Quit chkktri (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15.17.06 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 15.19.21 # * JdGordon has the cabbie skin buffer usage down to 8kb :p 15.19.30 Join WalkGood [0] (~4@unaffiliated/walkgood) 15.19.53 # New commit by 03zagor (r30782): Dynamic screen size (based on FS#11615), first commit. #ifdef:ed to not affect static targets at all. 15.19.55 # JdGordon: neat.. how? 15.20.10 # moving the major user onto buflib 15.20.24 # I have disabled the move callback to start with so obviously not ready 15.20.40 # and err... wondering why only one alloc is being done 15.23.21 # buflib_alloc_size -= size; <- always a problem forgetting that line 15.23.37 # * JdGordon wonders just how many different malloc type implementations we have in rockbox 15.23.41 Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p5DE4B108.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.23.48 # well technically zero 15.23.53 # or custom buffer alloc systems 15.24.00 # Okay, not zero really 15.24.09 # a couple, but all in pluginlib 15.24.12 # or plugins 15.24.36 # i mean, things that carve up a buffer manually 15.24.51 # are there really many? 15.25.00 # most things do it in very special-purpose ways that are not obviously generalisable 15.25.09 # and os comparing them to malloc is not really fair 15.26.32 # * Zagor tries to add branch to the commit bot text 15.29.02 # Zagor: hmm, many #ifdef :( 15.29.09 # of course 15.29.24 # I hope it's not going to be as painful as the charcell/bitmap separation 15.30.22 # Zagor: is there any reason to not use the same system on all targets? 15.30.41 # have the frambuffer as a pointer instead of the static array 15.30.46 # or are the ifdefs elsewhere? 15.30.56 # it adds runtime penalty 15.30.57 # * JdGordon should probaly look 15.31.25 # the frame buffer is the least of our problems :-) 15.32.35 # #ifdefs like in settings_list.c aren't needed IMO (you can simply #define DEFAULT_LCD_WIDTH LCD_WIDTH) 15.34.13 # I agree that runtime paneltry should be avoided if possible. I just hope it's not going to be a PITA for devs/contributors 15.41.34 # * JdGordon has no freeking clue how to handle the buflib moveing... 15.42.30 # the move callback happens *after* the data is moved right? 15.42.36 # no 15.42.51 # ah 15.42.52 # woops 15.42.57 # that makes sense :) 15.43.04 # * JdGordon is probably too tired to do this now 15.43.08 # hmm, what could be the problem, if the RB bootloader can't mount the internal storage? i cleared from the D2 firmware but it still hanging at "mount" i also added some printfs around the main-pp.c's mount-all but they wont be displayed :( 15.43.28 # Silicium: main-pp.c is the wrong file 15.43.39 # ah :D 15.43.43 # which is the right one? 15.43.54 # find out in SOURCES 15.44.52 # aah 15.44.53 # telechips 15.44.54 # damn :) 15.45.16 # thx 15.46.20 # kugel: I know. but that means changing code for static target. I'm wasting a few #ifdefs at this point to explicitly not change anything for static targets. 15.46.33 # Zagor: I remember you trying to add branch to the cia-bot text before without success (things may have changed since though) ;) 15.47.04 # pixelma: we'll see next commit :-) 15.49.59 # still no output 15.50.19 # is D2N_P.bin the right file to patch> 15.50.21 # ? 15.51.15 # Silicium: I doubt anyone online currently is familiar with the D2 port 15.51.27 # thx 15.51.45 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@165.139.179.10) 15.57.21 Part LinusN 16.01.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.04.49 # allright, it crashs while storage_init() 16.04.53 # yay :) 16.04.58 Quit ReimuHak_ (Quit: Leaving...) 16.05.15 # oh, no 16.05.28 # while disk_mount_all 16.14.00 # New commit by 03zagor (r30783): Enable dynamic size on Android. 16.15.17 # 00:47 pixelma: we'll see next commit :-) <- guess not :) 16.15.28 # nope :) 16.19.47 # is anyone friends with SDL? where do I set the window resizable? 16.20.05 # SDL_VideoInit or so 16.20.36 # I'm actually not sure if SDL windows can be resiizable 16.21.27 Join Topy [0] (~Topy44@g228192152.adsl.alicedsl.de) 16.21.49 # looks like it can: http://www.libsdl.org/docs/html/sdlresizeevent.html 16.22.27 # flags |= SDL_VIDEORESIZE 16.23.38 # SDL_SetVideoMode() perhaps 16.24.36 # ah yes, it says it on that page 16.24.40 # that call is in system-sdl.c 16.24.50 # yeah, done already. 16.25.23 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 16.26.55 Quit Topy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16.42.15 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@g228192152.adsl.alicedsl.de) 16.46.56 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.47.23 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 16.55.56 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.56.29 Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@203-100-223-143.callplus.net.nz) 17.03.36 Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@g228204126.adsl.alicedsl.de) 17.05.22 Part Zagor 17.07.27 Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17.08.18 # allright, the boot process is hanging at fat_mount(), after there are no partitions found, the bootloader tries to mount the blockdevice without partition and then they dont longer response. 17.08.29 # still at my cowon d2+ 17.08.58 # makes it sense when i reformat the internal storage with vfat? 17.10.46 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Quit...) 17.13.19 Quit mystica555_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17.17.39 Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 17.18.55 # have you tried with an SD card? Might be worth it before altering the code 17.19.13 # or other measures 17.19.38 # i have no SD Card, just SDHC 17.19.43 # and sdhc wont work 17.21.23 # I thought it should 17.21.27 # re. SDHC 17.23.29 Part WalkGood 17.29.26 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) 17.35.40 Join y4n [0] (y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 17.39.06 Join [Saint_] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940) 17.44.20 Topic "Frozen in preperation for 3.10 | 3.9.1 released! | Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at http://www.rockbox.org/irc" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) 17.45.12 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 17.54.34 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 17.57.06 Join mortalis [0] (~mortalis@77.108.98.176) 18.01.05 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.03.06 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) 18.04.51 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi) 18.11.50 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!) 18.15.50 Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.16.05 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.103) 18.29.27 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 18.33.51 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 18.34.06 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 18.34.15 Quit einhirn (Client Quit) 18.44.18 Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@79.132.42.48) 18.49.32 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 18.51.38 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 18.51.39 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 18.51.39 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 18.52.40 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 18.57.19 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19.02.26 # New commit by 03fredwbauer (r30784): In search(): eliminate an unnecessary test. 19.03.10 Join freddyb [0] (~freddybbb@216.8.239.112.etczone.com) 19.04.32 # r30784 build result: All green 19.08.24 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19.10.26 Join bertrik_ [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 19.13.09 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 19.17.31 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3ADA3.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.19.07 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 19.24.42 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 19.28.19 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 19.28.38 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 19.31.31 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@165.139.179.10) 19.38.28 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust848.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 19.42.52 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit) 19.43.04 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust848.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 19.44.21 Join robin0800_ [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust848.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 19.44.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@p5DD5779D.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.44.22 Quit Horscht (Changing host) 19.44.22 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 19.44.40 Quit robin0800_ (Client Quit) 19.45.38 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit) 19.45.51 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc3-brig8-0-0-cust848.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 19.50.26 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit) 19.52.04 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 19.52.05 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 19.52.05 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.52.09 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 19.53.34 # Zagor: Just mu 2 cents: While -Os might be useful for core in general, I'd rather not enable it just now 19.53.36 Quit ReimuHak_ (Quit: Leaving...) 19.53.56 # "just now" as in before release? 19.53.57 # Optimising something while it isn't stable is probably a bad idea.. 19.54.12 # "just now" as in before getting the core stable again 19.54.40 # right, I'm in no hurry. 19.54.51 # The straightened paper clip is still an important accessory, unfortunately :( 19.55.40 # I wonder what the core is doing here, btw. Not only does it not store resume position at shutdown, but it also doesn't so while rebuffering (i.e. in the storage callback) 19.55.46 # do we have a bug report for that? 19.55.59 # * amiconn currently has to do resume-from-brain 19.56.10 # Not sure, will check 20.00.38 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@165.139.179.10) 20.01.00 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 20.01.06 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.10.57 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 20.12.06 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 20.12.59 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20.13.31 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) 20.13.31 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 20.13.31 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.20.20 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@seas675.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) 20.24.12 Join markun [0] (~markun@s3eea32f5.adsl.wanadoo.nl) 20.24.24 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) 20.28.43 # amiconn: FS#12284 covers a resume issue 20.28.45 # http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12284 3Failure to properly resume playback (bugs, unconfirmed) 20.29.53 # Buschel: I'm not having a resume issue, I'm having an issue with saving resume position 20.30.24 # Resume it self works (to the position stored back when it worked last time) 20.30.49 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 20.30.56 # ok, then this does not seem to be covered in flyspray yet 20.38.25 # btw, do we have some playback test functionality since SoC? 20.38.54 # afaik no 20.39.20 # New commit by 03zagor (r30785): Make SDL window resizable and send event on resize. 20.39.41 # has there been any result on the playback project? 20.40.28 # * bluebrother^ wonders why this player doesn't seem to like to talk to beastpatcher :/ 20.51.26 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 20.56.16 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 20.57.16 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20.57.37 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 21.04.46 # New commit by 03kugel: r30786): Fix FS#12337. Skin viewports' line height was initialized with the UI font height. 21.06.32 # r30786 build result: All green 21.06.52 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@seas675.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) 21.06.58 # New commit by 03kugel: r30787): Reflect the time & date settings move in the manual. ... 21.08.52 # r30787 build result: All green 21.09.30 # forum admins: Lidress4f is spamming 21.09.37 # New commit by 03buschel: r30788): Submit FS#11805: Add setting 'Start File Browser Here' to manual. 21.11.17 # r30788 build result: All green 21.25.22 # is there any tool to snoop PTP / MTP USB transfer? 21.25.37 # i.e. something that also decodes the protocol 21.25.41 Quit ReimuHak_ (Quit: Leaving...) 21.31.03 Part [Saint_] ("Leaving...") 21.32.00 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@101.98.129.152) 21.32.00 Quit [Saint] (Changing host) 21.32.00 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940) 21.32.01 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21.32.16 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 21.43.52 Quit hilbert (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 21.44.40 Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@adsl-89-217-62-79.adslplus.ch) 21.45.21 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~LemonBoy@ppp-55-7.26-151.libero.it) 21.46.53 Quit y4n (Quit: To those frustrated with their marginal existence, we transmit: your time is now.) 21.49.15 # kugel: since r30787 the manual does not build anymore 21.49.24 Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.49.28 Quit bertrik_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.49.38 # the file time_and_date.tex is missing 21.49.51 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 21.51.46 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) 21.55.08 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) 21.58.23 Quit hilbert (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) 21.58.42 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 22.01.08 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 22.01.10 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.01.21 Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) 22.11.30 Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@adsl-89-217-62-79.adslplus.ch) 22.14.11 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22.17.19 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) 22.17.32 Join Topy [0] (~Topy44@g228204126.adsl.alicedsl.de) 22.23.04 Quit hilbert (*.net *.split) 22.23.04 Quit T44 (*.net *.split) 22.23.05 Quit Llorean (*.net *.split) 22.23.05 Quit user890104 (*.net *.split) 22.24.39 Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@adsl-89-217-62-79.adslplus.ch) 22.24.39 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) 22.24.39 Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@static.225.178.40.188.clients.your-server.de) 22.26.23 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@208.119.81.194) 22.29.23 Quit GodEater_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22.42.10 # sound on the fuze+ \o/ 22.42.41 # nice 22.43.35 # hmpf. If I send FWImage.ebn to the sa9200 via MTP it stores it on the data partition and doesn't upgrade the firmware :( 22.43.44 # pamaury: well done! 22.44.41 # the bug I had was very strange, I still need to investigate it 22.44.54 # and I think I messed up in the volume settings 22.45.37 # pamaury: wohoo! 22.47.48 Join Keripo1 [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0751.kin.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU) 22.48.08 Join saratoga [0] (9803c31c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.195.28) 22.48.42 # New commit by 03kugel: r30789): Fix manual build, forgot to add new files. 22.50.33 # r30789 build result: All green 22.53.44 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-206-240-131.dynamic.chello.pl) 22.53.53 # pamaury: congratulations! 22.54.25 # thanks 22.54.40 # time for a gentlemen email? 22.54.40 Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22.55.35 # just want to fix a few things before :) 22.56.50 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) 22.57.09 Quit ReimuHak_ (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 22.58.49 Quit liar (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22.59.23 Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 23.02.59 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) 23.03.29 Quit ender` (Quit: Before using any device which transfers energy directly into my body, I will install a surge suppressor. -- Evil Overlord List #183) 23.05.59 Join ReimuHak_ [0] (~reimu@208.119.81.194) 23.12.18 Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0751.kin.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU) 23.16.41 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 23.17.25 Join jpt9 [0] (~jpt9@unaffiliated/jpt9) 23.19.40 # pamaury: awesome work! 23.19.41 # Random question... are Sansas the only Rockboxable player that you can buy new right now? 23.20.09 # (My Clip's power switch broke, and I'm checking out new MP3 players.) 23.24.56 # question to arm gurus - what is smulbb mnemonic - I guess this is some signed multiplication 23.26.34 # 16x16 bit multiply of bottom half of registers i think 23.28.33 # yeah bottom half signed multiple 23.29.00 # http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0553a/CHDIABBH.html 23.29.21 # thx 23.29.53 # FWIW thats a single cycle operation on arm7e :) 23.31.57 # bottom means [0:15]? 23.33.28 # yes 23.33.45 # If Y is B, then the bottom halfword (bits [15:0]) of Rm is used. If Y is T, then the top halfword (bits [31:16]) of Rm is used. 23.44.03 # now r1=0-3, r4=0x0b, lr=ptr_to_some_struct : smulbb r3, r1, r4 add r12, lr, r3, lsl#2 - what is the meaning of something like this considering little endian byte sex? IMO it will always give r12 = lr 23.54.58 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) 23.55.22 # New commit by 03pamaury: r30790): imx233/fuze+: move audio driver to the canonical location 23.56.18 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 23.56.38 Nick [sanyi] is now known as [Sanyi] (~sanyi@unaffiliated/alexanderc) 23.57.07 # r30790 build result: 4 errors, 0 warnings (pamaury committed) 23.58.15 # New commit by 03pamaury: r30791): fuze+: fix bootloader not set backlight brightness 23.58.20 # New commit by 03pamaury: r30792): imx233/fuze+: fix typo and add dac dma/error interrupts