--- Log for 01.07.113 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 21 days and 14 hours ago 00.00.19 Join belak [0] (~belak@facebook/engineering/belak) 00.00.38 Quit z180 (Read error: Connection timed out) 00.01.18 Join z180 [0] (~chatzilla@ip-2-202-150-178.web.vodafone.de) 00.09.54 Quit belak (Quit: belak) 00.31.01 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00.36.55 Part SrRaven 00.50.05 Quit ender` (Quit: Eighty percent of all people consider themselves to be above-average drivers.) 00.52.37 Quit Rondom (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 00.53.12 Join Rondom [0] (~rondom@2a01:488:66:1000:b24d:4f2f:0:1) 00.55.03 Quit z180 (Remote host closed the connection) 01.00.49 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) 01.06.36 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01.23.28 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (~jethead71@d192-24-174-117.try.wideopenwest.com) 01.23.28 Quit _jhMikeS_ (Changing host) 01.23.28 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 01.23.28 Quit jhMikeS (Disconnected by services) 01.23.29 Nick _jhMikeS_ is now known as jhMikeS (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 01.24.39 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 01.24.46 Quit scorche` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.48.17 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.10.42 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 23.0/20130625125232]) 02.16.22 # Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision bb87590, 217 builds, 20 clients. 02.17.10 Quit sakax (Remote host closed the connection) 02.23.18 # Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 416 seconds. 02.23.18 # Build Server message: 3Revision bb87590 result: All green 03.04.48 Nick Scr0mple is now known as Scromple (~Simon@161.43.73.67) 03.48.21 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.03.32 Join amiconn_ [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.03.32 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.03.32 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.03.33 Join pixelma_ [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.03.35 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.03.35 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.56.29 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@v-413-alfarv-177.bitnet.nu) 05.04.29 Quit [7] (Read error: Operation timed out) 05.07.06 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.48.22 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.51.43 Join belak [0] (~belak@facebook/engineering/belak) 06.30.34 Quit belak (Quit: belak) 06.33.57 # <[Saint]> Does anyone know of a nice set of media icons with a permissive license? 06.34.31 # <[Saint]> Preferably with shuffle/repeat icons, and the usual play/pause/stop/seek icons. 06.35.21 # <[Saint]> Oh, also, ...with SVg sources? 06.35.27 # <[Saint]> *SVG even 06.36.03 # <[Saint]> (may seem off-topic, but its for a cabbieV2 replacement demo) 06.42.59 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:27:773:0:feed:c0f:fee) 07.18.01 Join polemon [0] (~polemon@g224150003.adsl.alicedsl.de) 07.18.35 # hello, I have an iPod nano 2nd gen, and according to what's on the website, USB is broken 07.18.54 # I have a rather current dev build on my ipod, and USB seems to work. 07.19.01 # is that information outdated? 07.21.38 Quit Epicanis (Quit: why am I still awake?) 07.24.27 Quit polemon (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07.42.22 Join mortalis [0] (~kvirc@213.33.220.118) 07.43.58 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection) 07.43.58 Quit pixelma (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07.44.51 Join pixelma [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 07.44.52 Join amiconn [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 07.48.23 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.06.54 Join polemon [0] (~polemon@92.224.146.120) 08.14.22 Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx) 08.15.25 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@giant.haxx.se) 08.20.07 # <[Saint]> polemon: "rather current dev build" is quite meaningless, I'm afraid. 08.20.17 # <[Saint]> Could you actually report the version, please? 08.20.41 # the one from two days ago, I don't remember the rather cryptic SVN hex number 08.21.50 # <[Saint]> You don't need to. 08.21.59 # I mean either it just works, or I don't know what to look for 08.22.09 # <[Saint]> debug (keep out!) > Rockbox Info will report the version. 08.22.18 # ok, wait a second 08.24.24 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 08.24.50 # Ah, ok, I think I found it: 662f757-130628 08.25.06 # <[Saint]> Thank you. 08.25.21 # System > Rockbox Info 08.25.25 # that's where I found it 08.25.43 # <[Saint]> Ah, sorry, my mistake. I thought it was in the debug menu. 08.25.47 # <[Saint]> Thank you anyway. 08.25.54 # heh, no problem 08.26.01 # <[Saint]> Though, I am rather more afraid of the situation now that it works. 08.26.08 # <[Saint]> I would much prefer it didn't. 08.26.18 # <[Saint]> Bugs that magically fix themselves are bad news. 08.26.19 # hmm, I can do a test or to, if you want me to 08.26.23 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08.26.45 # <[Saint]> If it doesn't panic immediately on USB insertion, then you aren't seeing the bug. 08.26.55 # ok, I'll check again 08.27.10 # <[Saint]> If it mounts at all, and you can transfer, then you're definitely not seeing it. 08.27.23 # <[Saint]> Which is "good", but rather suspicious. 08.27.42 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g231121074.adsl.alicedsl.de) 08.28.12 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08.30.01 # ok, it works like this: 08.30.31 # if the thing is running, and I insert the USB cable, sometimes it panics, sometimes it does nothing, but panics when I remove the USB cable 08.30.49 # but, when the device is not powered, and I insert the cable AND THEN boot the iPod, it works as expected 08.31.05 # if I remove the cable then, it resumes to normal operation 08.31.18 # now lets see what happens if I reinsert the cable... 08.31.23 # <[Saint]> Thank you. This is somewhat helpful information. 08.31.34 # <[Saint]> s/somewhat/quite/ 08.32.37 Join olspookishmagus [0] (~pookie@host-84-205-241-1.cpe.syzefxis.ote.gr) 08.32.55 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.33.19 # ok, when I reinsert the cable, the iPod went into the USB-Mode, but some weird things appeared in the lower right corner of the screen 08.33.31 # the iPod is charging, but doesn't mount 08.33.42 # when I remove the cable the iPod stays in the USB mode! 08.34.12 # the clock is still running, but the buttons don't work 08.34.49 # * [Saint] prods TheSeven - can you explain the behaviour defined above? 08.34.50 # after a reboot it's back to normal 08.35.30 # ok, I tested it again: when I insert the USB cable WHILE it's already running, I get the panic 08.35.36 # <[Saint]> Well, the bug seems to have slightly lessened its severity...but I can see no obvious reason as to why it should do so. 08.35.43 # when the cable is inserted before it boots, it goes into the USB mode as expected 08.36.13 # and then resumes normal operation when unplugged 08.36.34 # <[Saint]> The last time I tested this, which was many moons ago, USB didn't work under any circumstances whatsoever. 08.36.49 # except booting the device in Disk mode? 08.37.01 # disk modes seems always to work 08.37.09 # <[Saint]> Correct. That is always expected to work as it isn't under our control at all. 08.37.16 # first time I uploaded the dev version, it wouldn't boot 08.37.44 # I though I've bricked it, but then booting into disk mode and loading the firmware again, worked 08.37.56 # <[Saint]> Hmmmmm...this is curious. I cannot replicate your behavior. 08.38.16 # does it have anything todo with the themes, maybe? 08.38.26 # <[Saint]> Which bootloader are you using? Are you using the Rockbox bootloader, or an iLoader/emCORE version? 08.38.38 # the one that came with rockbox 08.39.00 # the utility has this option, I ticked the checkbox where it said "install bootloader" 08.39.17 # <[Saint]> That /may/ have an effect on my situation, but by the time Rockbox boots whatever loaded it _shouldn't_ be relevant. 08.39.45 # <[Saint]> I will revert back to the Rockbox bootloader this evening and check this. 08.40.14 # <[Saint]> And, yes, although it is technically "impossible" for it to do so, themes very well could have an effect on this behavior. 08.40.37 # <[Saint]> Preferably all tests should be done with the system default, cabbieV2. Just so everyone is on the same page. 08.41.38 # ok, I've just selected cabbieV2 08.41.42 # let's see... 08.42.41 # ok, now the iPod can't get out of the USB mode again 08.43.00 # it still displays the USB plug, but the iPod isn't plugged in anymore 08.45.14 # ok, now, the iPod didn't mount, but after removing the cable the Rockbox got out of the USB mode.. 08.45.21 # seems to have a mind of it's own, really 08.45.24 # <[Saint]> Curious. And, the behaviour is the same ragrdless if the iPod is shutdown, or running, during USB insertion? 08.45.52 # this was after reboot, then inserted, then unplugged 08.45.57 # <[Saint]> It may also be helpful to know what the theme was prior to changing back to cabbieV2. 08.45.59 # it didn't panic, but didn't mount 08.46.18 # it was a modification of electricbarsofcolor I did myself 08.49.17 # ok, now it seems to be in a state, that it senses being plugged into the USB port, and resumes operation after unplugging but doesn't mount 08.49.53 # <[Saint]> Still with cabbieV2? 08.49.58 # yes 08.50.31 # <[Saint]> I know this is a lot to ask, and rather tedious, but could you please check if normal operation (or, the somewhat normal operation) resumes when you go back to your custom theme? 08.50.54 # <[Saint]> Thank you very much for this, by the way. 08.51.23 # not a problem, it's just sticking the USB plug in and out for me 08.51.26 # and running dmesg 08.53.30 # [346184.085112] usb 2-5: USB disconnect, device number 4 [346198.030090] usb 2-5: new high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci-pci [346203.139223] usb 2-5: device descriptor read/all, error -110 [346203.240961] usb 2-5: new high-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-pci 08.53.48 # this is particularily interesting: [346203.139223] usb 2-5: device descriptor read/all, error -110 08.57.24 # [Saint]: you still there? 08.57.36 # <[Saint]> I am, yes. 08.58.08 # <[Saint]> I _think_ that is an ehci bug that seems to be present in a lot of distributions. 08.58.15 # <[Saint]> Easy to check for. 08.58.43 # http://pastie.org/8098987 <--- I've left the iPod connected to the computer for some time, and this is what dmesg says 08.58.58 # <[Saint]> Are you aware of how to disable USB 2 (temporarily? 08.59.18 # uh, I probably have to rmmod a module? 09.00.21 # <[Saint]> modprobe -r ehci-hcd should do the trick. Though I'm not really sure how useful this is, as it isn't really much of a solution at all. 09.00.47 # <[Saint]> It would be much more interesting to know *how* we trigger this bug, but that is beyond me. 09.01.13 # modprobe: FATAL: Module ehci_hcd is builtin. 09.01.41 # <[Saint]> Gah. Nevermind. 09.02.21 # hmm, it used to work, though 09.02.53 # [346731.517935] usb 2-5: reset high-speed USB device number 30 using ehci-pci 09.03.03 # now I don't get the errors, but the device doesn't mount 09.03.10 # <[Saint]> The only other time I have been able to reproduce this behavior is with some Kingston USb thumb drives formatted as FAT32 09.03.32 # <[Saint]> I have no idea what triggers it. 09.03.34 # now I've disconnected and it returned to normal operation 09.04.16 # it seems to be quite dificult to track down, as sometimes it mounts, sometimes it doesn't sometimes it triggers errors, sometimes it doesn't do a thing 09.04.32 # looks to me like either a timing problem or a protocol error 09.05.06 # <[Saint]> My guess is bad memory addresses. 09.05.22 # <[Saint]> But, its just a guess, and probably the result of a subtle bias. 09.05.28 # ok, but why does it work sometimes, and sometimes not? 09.05.46 # and sometimes it triggers the PANIC and sometimes it doesn't as it does not 09.05.50 # s/not/now 09.06.57 # <[Saint]> Its only a guess, but I think it may have something to do with loading/unloading the USb screen, which may not necessarily be in the same address each time, if I understand correctly. 09.07.13 # <[Saint]> But the buffer system in place is insanely complex, and I get lost in it easily. 09.08.05 # <[Saint]> I could, also, be completely wrong :) 09.08.17 # polemon: if it panics, what is the exact panic message? 09.08.48 # erm, wait a sec, got to get it panicing again... 09.08.53 # <[Saint]> AH, yes, that's something I should've asked. I only ever used to get garbage addresses in the panic. 09.09.39 # erm, it won't panic 09.09.49 # <[Saint]> Thanks for stopping by, TheSeven. This curious, seemingly new behavior intrigued me. 09.10.09 # <[Saint]> And its no secret this is far too low level for me :) 09.11.12 # I can't get it to panic... 09.11.12 # themes could very well have an effect, because the ipod nano USB problem looks like the whole handshaking between the USB and main threads is involved somehow... something seems to go wrong while switching to USB mode, which probably happens before something is loaded if the cable is plugged during boot 09.11.27 # so it could even be the database and amount of music files etc. that could have an effect on this 09.11.44 # <[Saint]> Hmmm. Good point. 09.11.45 # so it is a timing/protocol error? 09.12.12 # ok, third time I've tried: can't get it to panic 09.13.10 # <[Saint]> Heh. Typical. Something fails repeatably, except when you *want* it to. 09.13.33 # device descriptor read/all, error -110 means that it somehow survived the first descriptor transfers and stopped responding at some point 09.14.05 # <[Saint]> that's either a coincidence, or a reasonably common *nix bug. 09.14.25 # the whole chatter after that is just the typical "this device doesn't respond AT ALL" thing, with the ipod being locked up somewhere 09.15.16 # indeed, if the -110 error appears, the iPod becomes unresponsive 09.15.29 # <[Saint]> I can get my desktop to behave the same way with some kingston USB thumb drives. Killing ehci "fixes" it. 09.15.40 # <[Saint]> (on Ubuntu and Fedora) 09.16.17 # <[Saint]> It only happens when its formatted as FAT32 too...but I am unsure if this is a cause or a coincidence. 09.16.30 # well, what kind of panic was it? 09.16.38 # I'm using fedora as well 09.17.07 # TheSeven: no panic, the screen just get's stuck, and the buttons don't work, but the ipod doesn't display the PANIC text or anything 09.17.19 # I can still see the last screen of the Rockbox menu 09.17.54 # well, I mean the panic that you got at some point 09.18.07 # I honestly can't get it to panic 09.18.19 # it either just locks up, or only does not mount 09.18.22 # but no panic 09.18.26 # but you did earlier? do you remember what the panic message looked like, roughly? 09.18.44 # I'm sorry, no 09.18.53 # but I'll try to trigger the panic message again 09.18.55 # [Saint]: are you aware what the typical kind of USB insertion panic is? 09.19.21 # because on my device I usually just get lockups as well, which makes this thing hard to nail down 09.19.57 # <[Saint]> I used to get stkov nand panics with a garbage address. 09.20.03 # oooh, another error: 09.20.09 # <[Saint]> I can't get this thing to panic either, dammit. 09.20.30 # while booting up: ATA error 1 09.20.31 # hm, we really need to be able to run rockbox virtualized on these devices, in user mode instead of supervisor mode, and with a little protected GDB stub accessible over serial or something 09.20.33 # <[Saint]> and yes, I'm aware that stkov nand panic makes absolutely zero sense :) 09.20.42 # <[Saint]> (in this scenario) 09.21.47 # no panic again 09.21.55 # but I see a lot of these after inserting: 09.21.57 # hm, a stkov nand has typically exactly one cause: the nand is about to power down and calls the ata idle callback to flush some config/state files to the flash, and something in there uses too much stack 09.22.00 # [347907.888651] usb 2-5: reset high-speed USB device number 49 using ehci-pci 09.22.04 # it constantly resets 09.22.52 # so that might very well be related to rockbox entering USB mode... 3 things to try: 1. increase NAND stack size, 2. completely disable NAND powerdown, 3. disable NAND powerdown while in USB mode 09.22.54 # no panic, ever 09.23.22 # I'll enable my theme that I've used before, see if that makes any difference 09.23.27 # <[Saint]> TheSeven: thanks for the clues. I shall attempt to have a look this evening. 09.24.22 # those reset messages are good news, those mean that the ipod is still alive and we are "just" seeing the kind of behavior that causes things to fail with USB2 sometimes (the root cause seems to be some race condition in the USB driver which is triggered by concurrent EPO and BULK endpoint access) 09.24.58 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 09.25.48 # this is the typical "mounts after half an hour" behavior, which we're also observing with UMSboot recently 09.26.06 # <[Saint]> Oh. Sorry, slight memory failure. It was stkov usb that gave the garbage addresses. 09.26.16 # <[Saint]> stkov nand doesn't print an address iirc. 09.26.36 # I really need to start another try at nailing the UMSboot version of that bug down, but I won't have time for that before the end of this month 09.26.38 # <[Saint]> But, stkov nand was the most common panic I saw. 09.26.54 # stkovs should all behave the same? 09.27.30 # <[Saint]> I don't recall stkov nand printing an address at all...but, this may be me misremembering. 09.27.43 # <[Saint]> Things would be a lot easier if I could get this thing to panic now. 09.27.52 # <[Saint]> But it seems to be completely ignoring USb. 09.28.07 # another thing possibly worth trying: connect USB during boot and check how it behaves for a couple of times, with varying theme/core configurations 09.28.24 # with a really simple, and an insanely complex theme, both in terms of memory usage and drawing effort 09.28.35 # I'm sorrt I can't get it to panic 09.28.38 # might also be worth trying to enable/disable the database and dircache 09.28.51 # it either does nothing, or locks up 09.29.08 # polemon: that's the typical mess that I'm used to 09.29.18 # (with cabbiev2, didn't try other themes) 09.29.51 # <[Saint]> Mine is ignoring USB *completely* now... 09.29.58 # <[Saint]> Not even charging. Huzzah! 09.30.33 # <[Saint]> Yay for things that are practically impossible to track down and don't behave how you want when you want them to! 09.30.41 # hm, I think we should really start to instrument this somehow, and preferably in a way that is able to dump data across a reboot 09.30.58 # or try to split things down an start with a simpler environment 09.31.16 # making sure that the USB stack itself works before doing any of the USB mode entry/exit handshaking 09.31.40 # might possibly be worth doing a bootloader USB build for nano2g, and checking how that behaves 09.31.50 # should act much more predictably 09.32.32 # <[Saint]> Ooooh. I never thought of that. That's a good idea. 09.33.39 # how many people are currently working on Rockbox? 09.34.15 # <[Saint]> That's rather hard to say. Actively? A few dozen? 09.34.23 # <[Saint]> In total, several hundred. 09.34.26 # oh that many 09.34.47 # I was expecting something along of maybe five to ten people actively 09.35.28 # <[Saint]> http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=blob_plain;f=docs/CREDITS;hb=HEAD 09.35.46 # <[Saint]> that's the entire project. 09.36.07 # <[Saint]> Active committers number a couple of dozen, at a guess. 09.36.39 # do you guys plan to add more devices to the list? 09.37.01 # <[Saint]> There are no plans, per se. 09.37.12 # <[Saint]> If someone wants to work on a new port, they will. 09.37.55 # <[Saint]> There should be a few devices from Creative joining the lineup reasonably soon. 09.38.30 # [347907.888651] usb 2-5: reset high-speed USB device number 49 using ehci-pci <--- I have this mp3 player as well 09.38.41 # interestingly, it supports Ogg/Vorbis out of the box 09.38.58 # <[Saint]> What device is this? 09.39.12 # iBeat Organix 09.40.09 # <[Saint]> I can never stop giggling about the iBeat Blaxx 09.40.18 # <[Saint]> ...poor, poor, poor naming choice. 09.40.28 # omg, I believe it was quite close to ending the company 09.40.30 # <[Saint]> Anyhoo. 09.40.39 # TrekStor was in pretty bad shape at that poing 09.40.44 # point* 09.47.33 # <[Saint]> A port for the Organix is certainly possible. 09.47.47 # <[Saint]> It "just" needs someone to do the work. 09.48.24 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.49.42 # no idea how to port that 09.50.10 # I'll try and add codec2 decoding to Rockbox, probably, but making a port, I wouldn't know where to start 09.51.26 # <[Saint]> That _might_ be interesting for audiobooks et al. 09.51.49 # well, I have another reason actually 09.52.17 # 1. I like the idea of Codec2, and I wouldn't want to see it only used on embedded devices for radio communications 09.52.35 # i have created support for codec2 for rockbox 09.52.36 # <[Saint]> But I rather suspect that Opus will kill a lot of the need for many codecs. 09.52.41 # 2. I'd like to see how well the speech codec performs on relatively low-quality devices like that 09.52.48 # it is on my home computer, however it does only work on the simulator 09.52.56 # last i checked codec2 was only floating point 09.53.14 # <[Saint]> Yes, I believe you're right. 09.53.14 # well, codec2 is still a long way from being finished 09.53.23 # also development kinda seemed to have stalled a bit 09.53.32 # i will make a patch if/when somebody converts it to fixed point 09.53.42 # <[Saint]> Possibly in no small part due to Opus removing the need for it. 09.53.52 # for codec2? 09.53.56 # <[Saint]> Indeed. 09.54.02 # erm, no, not really 09.54.07 # <[Saint]> How so? 09.54.10 # it is supposed to support 800bps voice if optimized for size 09.54.11 # there is a rather good presentation by David Rowe 09.54.14 # opus supports 8kbps 09.54.37 # now it is optimized for rf roubustness at 1.6kbps 09.54.41 # it works quite good at 1400bps by now 09.54.49 # <[Saint]> Whoah...holy, codec2 goes that low? I must've misread in the past. 09.55.13 # the c2enc lets you encode down to 1200bps, but it doesn't work too well 09.55.36 # but for digital SSB communication, it is pretty much the way to go 09.55.58 # at 1200bps, you can't recognise someone's voice anymore, but you still understand the spoken words 09.56.34 # I am from a CB-radio background, so it kinda interests me in that way 09.57.48 # <[Saint]> Hmmmm. Yes. I must've misread. I didn't think codec2 had such a low bitrate. 09.58.22 # <[Saint]> I would still like to think that Opus will kill the need for so many specific codecs. 09.58.42 # well, if it kills AAC, I'd be quite pleased 09.58.57 # but more importantly, Opus is in very wide use already 09.59.26 # things like Skype, Spotify, etc. streaming services are quite keen on using it 09.59.52 # <[Saint]> Indeed. It is incredibly diverse. 10.00.13 # * freqmod waits for android support 10.00.23 # for opus 10.00.42 # <[Saint]> Well, /technically/ there is Opus support for Android. 10.00.47 # well, Google is quite after it, as it will be used in the newer WebM with VP9 10.00.48 # <[Saint]> RaaA 10.01.10 # so Android support shouldn't be too far down the road 10.01.21 # then again, Google kinda shunned Linux users with Google Drive 10.01.32 # * [Saint] does realize that freqmod means "native support" 10.01.38 # <[Saint]> I was just being pedantic. 10.01.54 # RaaA is nice, but it is not very well integrated 10.02.03 # or stable 10.02.12 # (when i tried it a few months ago) 10.02.14 # * polemon has no Android devices 10.11.54 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10.13.20 # freqmod: how did you put Codec2 support into Rockbox? 10.13.44 # the same way i put speex and rockbox support 10.13.51 # linked the library and called it from rockbox 10.14.11 # it was just a proof of concept, but i stopped working on it when i didn't see any fixed point version 10.14.23 # i am not good enough with dsp to convert it myself 10.17.48 # btw the codec2 format does not support seeking 10.18.08 # but it should be possible to just jump to the correct part of the file and play from there (as it is fixed bitrate) 10.26.57 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 10.32.58 # well, I'd like to see it on Rockbox, because why not? 10.33.19 # does the format hint on what kind of compression was used? 10.33.48 # the decoder has to be told what compression that is, that he's being fed 10.33.58 Join Norm_ [0] (~Norm@81.213.109.192) 10.42.47 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10.43.29 # 07:59:27 UTC things like Skype, Spotify, etc. streaming services are quite keen on using it 10.43.40 # yees? 10.43.42 # it's not implemented in Spotify yet though, right? I only see a feature request. 10.44.04 # nope, spotify is behind, Skype moved to Opus last month 10.44.23 # there is an article about this, but I'd have to look for it 10.45.14 # Opus tools are still missing even on computers 10.45.24 # Vorbis was kinda constrained to embedded stuff and things like computer games 10.45.50 # yeah, but Opus was RFC approoved just a few months ago 10.46.14 # things like Liquidsoap and FFmpeg needs to get the encoders etc 10.46.44 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@74.112.203.135) 10.46.59 # basic tools such as opusgain and opus tagging are still missing 10.47.43 # well, since Opus is contained inside an Ogg container, you use pretty much the same thing like vorbis comment, etc 10.48.21 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 10.48.41 # yes but neither vorbiscomment nor oggz-comment actually support opus 10.48.45 # opusenc supports that: --comment, --artist, --title 10.48.46 # not the stable version anyway 10.49.04 # polemon: that's fine but you need tools to alter tags after encoding 10.49.32 # yeah, but that's just something like an afterthough 10.49.39 # t 10.49.39 # ot 10.49.50 # it's more important to get things using it beforehand 10.50.13 # Opus is best for streaming, so the whole metadata thing, wasn't really that important 10.50.14 # how can you use it if you don't have the necessary tools 10.50.52 # you have the libraries 10.51.15 # users need tools, not libraries 10.51.29 # sure, but it's not geared at this kind of "market" 10.51.43 # Vorbis was aimed at the "MP3" market 10.51.50 # Opus never (and still kinda) isn't 10.51.52 # users are not the market? 10.52.04 # producers are users too 10.52.12 # I've actually talked to Jasper from Xiph the other day 10.52.34 # it is basically first and foremost for the technical aspect of audio streaming 10.53.31 # that Opus may rival things like AAC, was pretty much accidental 10.54.27 # I was a replacement for Vorbis, but they didn't think it actuall would rival over the whole spectrum 10.54.49 # it was intended as a low-latency codec, but it turned out to be just as good for archiving 10.55.02 # (archving meaning having the files for playback) 10.55.15 # also, if you're a producer, you'd want the lossless masters 10.55.31 # there is no point to keep the Opus files, really 10.55.52 # even if you want to stream them, you'd re-encode them with your streaming software into opus from the FLAC masters 10.56.12 # it's how most webradios work, and that's how FLAC is actually designed to work 10.56.56 # aaaaaah 10.56.59 # https://github.com/fmang/opustags 11.00.24 # yeah, someone seems to bother with a little tool like that 11.00.29 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 11.00.47 # but there's going to be many more, just like with the plethora of ID3-Tags 11.13.21 # brb 11.14.59 Quit copper (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 11.16.22 Quit way2strong (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11.18.35 Join copper [0] (~copper@unaffiliated/copper) 11.20.42 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@lns-c10k-ld-02-m-212-194-176-149.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) 11.26.26 # hmm, opustags 11.26.42 # the naming scheme of Xiph is completely going down the gutter 11.26.59 # it should be oggtags, if anything 11.32.39 # 1) the author isn't associated with Xiph 11.32.48 # 2) it supports Opus and nothing else 11.33.53 # like vorbiscomment supports only Ogg Vorbis 11.34.21 # oggz-comment should support Opus too, in the next version 11.36.31 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 11.38.54 # ugh, except oggz-comment is a lot less convenient 11.39.08 # it supports opus in git though 11.48.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.58.19 # copper: except it's the same thing in all of them 11.58.47 # vorbis comment and opus comment is actually the same thing 11.59.00 # or another way would be to say, Opus uses vorbis comments 11.59.14 # except that oggz-comment needed to be modified in order to support it 11.59.15 # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis_comment <--- first line of text 11.59.23 # so it's not all that universal 11.59.57 # it's just down to the tools not understanding the universality of it 12.00.02 # but it actually is universal 12.00.08 # oggz-comment is from Xiph itself 12.00.13 # so if THEY don't understand it… 12.00.26 # someone failed, somewhere. 12.00.34 # in fact Xiph have some of their "convention" problems in many places 12.01.04 # for one thing, the opus tools don't behave like any other tool for Xiph codecs 12.01.30 # no short options and up to the very recent SVN builds, opusenc couldn't decode FLAC files 12.02.26 # it's things like that, then of course extensions: .flac <--- whether it's inside an Ogg container or not, is not determinable by extension 12.02.48 # .ogg <--- that's the extension of Ogg/Vorbis, but .opus is the extention of Ogg/Opus... 12.03.40 # they neglected OggPCM to the point where it is in the spec, but not used anywhere and by none of their tools 12.03.47 # Ogg FLAC extension is .oga 12.03.57 # or .ogg 12.04.00 # it would be a great stream codec for piping things into one another 12.04.18 # copper: .flac is a valid Ogg/Flac extension, though 12.05.02 # the flac encoder sets it to .oga by default 12.05.13 # and the man page says to use .oga, too 12.05.16 # <[Saint]> It is, yes, but people that use that need to be shot in the face. 12.05.30 # hehe 12.05.30 # <[Saint]> FLAC in an ogg container == .oga 12.05.47 # <[Saint]> ...and, I see I'm late to the party and copper already said that. 12.05.49 # why not vorbis in an ogg container = .oga 12.05.55 # would make sense, wouldn't it... 12.06.24 # ah 12.06.41 # metaflac can't deal with .oga files! 12.07.17 # * [Saint] thinks this should /probably/ shift into *-community now 12.07.24 # and neither can oggz-comment 12.07.25 # suffice it to say, when it comes to naming and operations conventions, Xiph is unfortunately a big chaotic hairball 12.07.38 # how's that for "universal" 12.23.55 # my bad, oggz-comment does read tags from FLAC .oga files 12.43.13 Part Norm_ ("Leaving") 13.09.08 Join Guest29983 [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) 13.10.38 Join kilroy [0] (~dewlap@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:2c93:e83:b815:38b6) 13.12.58 Join traps [0] (~dewlap@2001:5c0:1000:a::1dff) 13.13.27 Quit dewlap (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13.15.57 Quit kilroy (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13.38.09 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13.38.31 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 13.48.02 Join way2strong [0] (~irssi@pool-173-79-215-215.washdc.fios.verizon.net) 13.48.27 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.50.39 Join dfkt [0] (OxO29A@unaffiliated/dfkt) 13.53.42 Join petur2 [0] (~petur@91.183.48.77) 13.55.36 Quit petur (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13.56.26 Nick petur2 is now known as petur (~petur@91.183.48.77) 13.56.36 Quit petur (Changing host) 13.56.36 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 14.48.55 Part LinusN 15.32.53 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) 15.48.28 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.01.41 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 16.11.35 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 16.37.49 Quit melmothX (Quit: #) 16.49.17 Join redhot [0] (b0f16b6a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.241.107.106) 16.49.22 # Howdy! 16.49.47 # Does anyone faced and issue with SanDisk Sansa Clip+ and 32GB microSD card? 16.50.08 # My card loses some files accidentaly, and it happens from time to time 16.50.36 # microSD is SanDisk Ultra 32GB 16.50.56 # RockBox is 3.13 16.52.20 Quit olspookishmagus (Quit: free() the malloc()) 16.53.46 # redhot: Nope. When does it happen? 16.56.13 # Accidentally... Few times. I switch on player and see some folders are completely empty 16.56.49 # Re-checked on PC and it seems like these files just dissappeared. From few different folders 16.57.05 # where they ever there to begin with? 16.57.29 # I have put files from PC to microSD and they were OK for few days 16.57.45 # That after few player restarts they started to disappear 16.57.54 # I suspect it may be a card issue 16.58.04 # But need to clarify 16.58.25 # that's never happened to me 16.58.43 # but I do believe that the quality of the card play a role in overall stability 16.58.45 # I know, I'm lucky to get enough exceptions 16.58.47 # plays* 16.59.10 # Sounds like your card has problems 16.59.39 # So basically size (32GB) is OK for Rockbox and Player , yep? 16.59.44 # yes 16.59.56 # It should be card quality issue? 17.00.02 # Sounds like it 17.00.26 # Did your reported volume size decrease on that card? 17.00.37 # Kohlrabi: uh? 17.00.43 # yes 17.00.46 # copper: Disabled sectors 17.01.01 # how does it affect volume? 17.01.04 # Wait, what Soft to check? 17.01.30 # copper: Disabled sectors should decrease available size 17.01.40 # oooh 17.01.54 # Kohlrabi: and disabled sectors means "bad" sectors, huh? 17.01.55 # I missed the "size" part 17.01.58 # Yes 17.02.03 # I thought you were talking about sound volume 17.02.16 # I think flash card controllers are able to tag broken sectors and disable them 17.02.23 # yay! It is definitely so.. What can I use to check "disabled" sectors size? 17.02.27 # doesn't the filesystem do that? 17.02.33 # copper: Does the FS do that? 17.02.41 # I thought it was down on Firmware or hardware level 17.02.53 # redhot: Dunno, google := 17.02.54 # :)* 17.03.03 # it's ok :) 17.03.56 # redhot: don't be cheap on the microsdhc card, buy a high quality one from a reputable source, it will save you lots of headaches 17.04.28 # Kohlrabi: badblocks I guess (on linux / perhaps unix) 17.05.01 # so yeah, my bad, I don't think filesystems do that 17.05.02 # copper, huh this is expensive and genuine SanDisk UltraSDHC 17.05.11 # redhot: where did you buy it? 17.05.19 # huh, ebay))) 17.05.31 # but Sandisk confirms it's genuine 17.05.35 # by S/N 17.05.50 # can't the S/N be simply copied (faked)? 17.06.09 # the faker buys a genuine card, copies the S/N, done 17.06.36 # copper: not in this case, I've checked a lot of things and it sands like Genuine 17.06.44 # I've bought a fake one before :) 17.06.51 # So I could compare 17.06.54 # :D 17.06.57 # well I bought a seemingly "genuine" transcend card that gave me problems right from the start 17.07.07 # except I bought it from a chinese hardware store 17.07.31 # I trust neither chinese stores nor eBay 17.07.48 # copper: Yep, thanks guys! Seems like I'll contact Sandisk concerning this item again 17.08.18 # redhot: I bought a new SanDisk card from Amazon and my problems magically disappeared 17.08.32 # Just sayin'. 17.09.08 # copper: Yep, I've also bought a microSD from Amazone and it works just well :) 17.10.17 # does your faulty card look like this? http://www.sandisk.com/assets/Product/microsd-sdsdqua-032g.jpg 17.11.00 # Sure, it has qulity materials and printing 17.12.51 # redhot: why operating system do you use? 17.14.09 # copper: Why? Because I dont like bare metal things without OS :) 17.14.23 # Actually I used WinXp only to put files 17.14.32 # Then used card in Clip+ only 17.14.38 # if you run Linux, I have a command that you can run to test the card's speed 17.15.06 # yep, I know about dd, thanks. Speed is crappy too :) 17.15.12 # how crappy 17.15.31 # Sandsik support says it's ok) It is ~6-8 MB/s in real world :) 17.15.40 # uh 17.15.45 # 6-8MB/s is not crappy 17.15.49 # On benchmarks it is ALMOST 10 mb 17.15.53 # that's class 10 17.16.14 # for class 4 or 6 it'll be ok 17.17.17 # they liz 17.17.19 # lie 17.17.47 # but given the speed you're reporting, I'd wager that the card is genuine but faulty 17.17.49 # For comparison I've bought Transcent Ultra card (16GB) - it gives me real 10-12MB/s... 17.17.58 # microsdhc too? 17.18.01 # yep 17.18.04 # but 16GB 17.19.30 # I thinks I will contact theirs Support. It is definitely faulty... Who know's maybe after weeks of emailing (LOL) they will replace it :) 17.19.43 # amazon would do it in a blink 17.20.09 # also, I'm not sure SanDisk will comply, given that you bought it on eBay 17.20.34 # copper: SanDisk once replaced my broken Clip+ :) 17.20.40 # that's exactly the kind of thing you should NOT buy on eBay 17.20.46 # So I've got a good opinion about them 17.21.44 # "that's exactly the kind of thing you should NOT buy on eBay" - it's a kinda lottery, you are right 17.22.16 # ok, guys thanks a lot for your help :-) 17.23.39 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.26.18 # Have a nice day everyone! ;-) 17.26.50 Quit redhot () 17.38.39 Quit petur (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 17.42.26 Quit wodz (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.47.25 Join bady48 [0] (~594a2b27@www.haxx.se) 17.48.06 Quit bady48 (Client Quit) 17.48.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.07.08 Join Raptors_ [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net) 18.07.08 Quit Raptors (Disconnected by services) 18.08.29 Quit polemon (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 18.22.56 Quit Raptors_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 18.29.53 Join jokke [0] (~jokke@ip-130-180-2-169.unitymediagroup.de) 18.30.39 # hi! anyone here playing lots of opus encoded music on his/her rockbox device? I'm curious about the battery consumption. 18.37.14 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 18.40.34 Join TeruFSX2 [0] (~TeruFSX@75-163-26-8.dlth.qwest.net) 18.43.45 # i was looking at the issue with ipods and chargers and i thought one possible option would be a timeout 18.45.02 # you would turn this option on, and if the other device looks like it's been resetting the bus for a second, you assume it's not actually a live device and back out of disk mode 18.46.54 Join belak [0] (~belak@facebook/engineering/belak) 18.49.01 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 18.59.43 Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net) 19.03.12 Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 19.20.49 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:27:773:0:feed:c0f:fee) 19.21.16 Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@86.34.67.25) 19.22.09 # pamaury: bluebrother: this one is for you... g#495 19.22.12 # 3Gerrit review #495 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/495 : 3[Manual] Document soft lock for FM by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/95/495/1) 19.22.49 # plain right copy/paste from WPS 19.23.10 # Still I suppose it makes sense adding 19.23.46 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-75-41-78.dynamic.chello.pl) 19.23.55 # pamaury: ping 19.27.16 # wodz: pong 19.28.08 # Tie. 19.28.45 # pamaury: Could you run some code on your rk27xx dap? I created hacky patch to dump begining of the nand to the file. Maybe this will proof my idea why you only have system partition 19.29.44 # wodz: ok, send me a mail and i'll do it at home, I need to go back home now 19.30.13 # ok 19.32.29 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@nl118-168-30.student.uu.se) 19.32.29 Quit n1s (Changing host) 19.32.29 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) 19.32.47 # pamaury: you should have test build + instruction in your mailbox 19.35.27 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19.43.27 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.203.135) 19.48.30 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.03.45 Quit Guest29983 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 20.06.33 # is anyone else having problems with the unread forum posts page? it says i dont have any unread posts, but the homepage shows blue squares all over the place 20.11.07 # hi all: anybody know why all screen pictures are blank when I build the manual? 20.12.01 # it seems only the border of the image get displayed... 20.12.55 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.12.58 # ha ok never mind it's the soft I was using that doesn't read the pdf correctly 20.43.00 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1) 20.43.20 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 20.43.36 Quit Scall (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20.46.45 Join Scall [0] (~chat@unaffiliated/scall) 20.48.58 Quit jlbiasini (Quit: jlbiasini) 20.49.28 Quit pamaury (Read error: Operation timed out) 20.51.08 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.51.51 Quit Scall (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20.54.15 Join Scall [0] (~chat@unaffiliated/scall) 21.02.29 Quit Zarggg (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.03.05 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.140.62.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 21.19.41 Quit TeruFSX2 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21.28.40 Join TeruFSX2 [0] (~TeruFSX@75-163-26-8.dlth.qwest.net) 21.42.37 # wodz: see mailbox 21.43.04 # pamaury 21.43.14 # ok 21.44.31 # pamaury: hmm, id block is set for 60MB system partition 21.48.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.55.27 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) 22.11.07 Join vis_ionmas_ter [0] (4cb1c293@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.177.194.147) 22.11.30 Part vis_ionmas_ter 22.12.29 # could someone who understands make review g#496 ? 22.12.32 Quit fs-bluebot (Remote host closed the connection) 22.13.14 Quit y4n (Quit: MOTHER EUROPA CALLING ME!) 22.13.39 # n1s: you basically call gevaerts :-) 22.13.59 # Sorry, no. Variables are a part of make I don't get :) 22.14.37 # Maybe Zagor? 22.17.41 # hmm, in fact this might be doable with a much smaller change. The recursively expanded vars really are confusing 22.24.55 Quit krabador (Quit: Bah...) 22.27.35 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) 22.34.14 Join saratoga [0] (d8507479@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.80.116.121) 22.38.51 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@d192-24-174-117.try.wideopenwest.com) 22.38.51 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 22.38.51 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 22.44.33 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 22.45.45 Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) 23.03.34 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@74.112.203.135) 23.03.55 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.203.135) 23.13.51 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23.15.02 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving) 23.24.27 Quit makoto (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23.33.08 Join makoto [0] (~makoto@hey.dont.privmsg.me.uk) 23.34.44 Quit ender` (Quit: You must know by now we Brits are going metric inch by inch! -- Greg Chapman) 23.43.44 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@62.83.50.196.dyn.user.ono.com) 23.48.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.49.54 Join dewlap [0] (~dewlap@2001:5c0:1000:a::1dff) 23.52.36 Quit traps (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)