--- Log for 15.08.113 Server: wolfe.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 20 hours and 57 minutes ago 00.00.23 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) 00.00.53 # TheSeven: no, it's implemented this way: present a mass storage interface, monitor the first bulk transfer. If it's obviously a mtp command, switch to mtp mode *without* reenumerating 00.02.37 # why do some people think we support Creative ZEN X-Fi ? The wiki doesn't show any progress, the forum thread doesn't say it's working and it's not in the supported list ! 00.04.50 # everyone is on the IRC :D 00.05.00 # should I buy a second handed Zen X-Fi ? :D 00.05.24 # there is a port *in progress* and go hell figure out what it means ;) 00.08.06 # actually it's probably a good time to buy, there are many cheap out there 00.10.29 # if I find one around €20 on leboncoin or ebay why not. But I won't spend much for that sh**** player ;) 00.11.35 # I think you can find one for 20€ on leboncoin, just need to check regularly 00.12.44 # yep 00.13.07 # you expect bluetooth to be supported on X-Fi 3 with RB? 00.14.05 # that might take some time but yes eventually 00.14.12 # on the X-Fi3 it's quite easy 00.15.56 # *seems 00.37.28 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00.45.59 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130812173056]) 00.52.39 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving) 00.55.16 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 01.03.26 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.13.21 Join wowaname [0] (~wow@174-147-178-15.pools.spcsdns.net) 01.17.50 Quit wowaname (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.30.57 Join wowaname [0] (~wow@184.242.51.70) 02.07.18 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02.07.57 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 02.09.32 Quit ender` (Quit: Power comes from wallsockets -- Starwhite) 02.17.45 Nick wowaname is now known as OpinionBot (~wow@184.242.51.70) 02.18.33 Nick OpinionBot is now known as wowaname (~wow@184.242.51.70) 02.29.58 Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02.30.04 Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@dslb-088-066-165-215.pools.arcor-ip.net) 02.35.23 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02.36.28 Join robin0800 [0] (~Robin0800@cpc1-brig15-2-0-cust755.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) 02.37.30 # <[Saint]> [01:58:53] in my day we had an option to enable numeric volume indicator. ---we still do! :) 02.37.49 # hi 02.38.15 # <[Saint]> Torne: I would argu that indicating line level is also useful...but, meh. 02.38.26 # No module named usb.core... 02.38.28 # brb google 02.44.24 # hahah maybe python-usb 02.44.33 # the fuck 02.44.45 # well the error changed from usb.core to core 02.44.49 # progress at least 02.45.47 # <[Saint]> copper: please try avoiding telling people that weird hacks are "normal", ok? 02.45.58 # <[Saint]> re: [06:51:12] so, is this the normal iPod/rockbox maintainance rule/method here to connect after turning on ? 02.46.03 # <[Saint]> ...that's clearly a bug. 02.46.40 # who me? or sovon 02.48.44 # <[Saint]> I was addressing copper, I have no idea what you're up to. You're being amazingly vague. 02.49.27 # oh sorry 02.49.50 # <[Saint]> If you'd like to be more specific, I'm sure someone could help you. 02.49.55 # i was trying to run the ipoddfu.py script and it came up it could not load module core 02.50.14 # i'm sorry, i tend to speak my mind in irc in fragmented thoughts and i shouldnt even do that 02.50.36 # between searching online and creating a message 02.50.58 # sounds like you're using python-usb 0.4.2, not 1.0.x 02.51.42 # I guess you're using debian or ubuntu, which don't have the newer one in their repositories yet 02.52.09 # ok i'll compile from source 02.52.13 # so just download pyusb at sourceforge, grab the "usb" folder from that archive, and put it where ipoddfu.py is 02.52.14 # assuming it will work 02.52.29 # no need to permanently install it 02.52.33 # ok thanks 02.53.00 # python will automatically look for it in the current directory 02.53.15 # or rather in the directory where the script is 02.53.21 # lolya 02.53.57 # <[Saint]> Do you have the installation instruction in front of you? 02.54.02 # yes 02.54.10 # not per se but it is up in a tab 02.54.40 # <[Saint]> Is there a way it could be improved upon? 02.54.53 # <[Saint]> The very first line on the linux install page should avoid this happening. 02.54.55 # * wowaname reads 02.55.04 # we could probably offer a pre-packaged version of all those scripts and pyusb 02.55.07 # oh i see it 02.55.13 # pyusb >=1.0.0a0 installed 02.55.17 # <[Saint]> first instruction: "Make sure that you have python 2.6 or newer, libusb and pyusb >=1.0.0a0 installed" 02.55.38 # it might be worth mentioning more clearly that some popular distros do *not* have the right versions of things 02.55.53 # <[Saint]> it does specifically state to check...so. 02.55.54 # it was my fault i didnt read 02.55.56 # * [Saint] shrugs 02.56.10 # if people don't read we need to highlight things better 02.56.26 # a little FAQ section with common problems might help as well 02.56.38 # add a ''' ''' around it :p 02.56.44 # don't worry, you aren't alone. you're at least the 20th user that I explain this to :) 02.57.04 # lol sorry 02.57.09 # <[Saint]> and about the same number I have asked how this could be avoided. :) 02.57.10 # so yeah, that might warrant introducing a FAQ 02.58.54 # someone could also rewrite those python scripts to work with all combinations of python and pyusb versions 02.59.06 # ha it works 02.59.08 # it might be a bit tricky because of some odd bugs, but it's certainly doable 02.59.09 # thanks guise 02.59.11 # now next step 02.59.51 # you should see a UMSboot drive in your file manager now 03.00.01 # in /media? 03.00.10 # there it is 03.00.11 # slow 03.00.25 # slow, but accessible? 03.00.28 # yes 03.00.32 # interesting 03.00.56 # we have a new beta version of the DFU file that is supposed to make it both faster and more reliable 03.01.02 # it's an empty dir if that's what you mean by accessible 03.01.33 # the new one is in here, if you want to try if it works better/faster: https://mega.co.nz/#!NAoChaZA!LvrFIyi-cyTiP40U6Du7ITJpvUEITxhH5VCO2sIyKn4 03.02.16 # sexy cloud 03.02.31 # i *wonder* what that implies 03.03.28 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.04.19 # eh i'll stick with 0.1 03.05.29 # it's a beta version that hasn't been officially published yet because it's awaiting feedback from testers 03.05.53 # once I've received sufficient positive feedback about it behaving better than the old one, I'll replace the one linked from the wiki 03.05.56 # ya 03.06.17 # i'm sticking with stabler 03.06.20 # more stable* 03.06.45 # <[Saint]> You have no idea of what "more stable" is, at this point. 03.07.24 # i'm going solely off version numbers 03.07.33 # in fact that new version was written because the old one was acting up rather often :) 03.07.40 # <[Saint]> Indeed. 03.07.40 # so far we've had less problems with the new one 03.07.50 # well damn 03.08.07 # but yeah, as long as it works, you can use whichever version you want 03.08.09 Quit robin0800 (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) 03.08.34 # it's just a tool that's used to run the installer anyway. once you've installed emCORE it won't make a difference which one you've used 03.08.47 # ya 03.08.54 # that's why i'm sticking with what i have lol 03.10.44 # is it odd that the umsboot partition would be 67 instead of 64mb 03.10.57 Join zoktar [0] (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) 03.12.01 # nice installer to whoever made it 03.15.41 # 67MB == 64MiB 03.15.48 # ooh 03.15.55 # <[Saint]> 67MB == ~64MiB 03.15.57 # <[Saint]> awww 03.16.07 # i always forget the MiB 03.16.09 # it's exactly the iPod's RAM size 03.16.44 # wowaname: I'm curious what's nicer in your opinion: the installer or the boot menu :) 03.16.55 # * [Saint] assumes the latter 03.17.34 # boot menu honestly... except the scrolling could be a bit less fluent so you are more aware of what you have selected 03.17.52 # wowaname: you can also just press the left and right buttons on the wheel 03.17.59 # true 03.17.59 # <[Saint]> there's a *very* slight "snap to" 03.18.08 # <[Saint]> when scrolling. 03.18.13 # the selected is opaque 03.18.15 # <[Saint]> maybe it could be more agressive. 03.18.17 # so it is noticable 03.18.35 # like the iPod's shuffle selector 03.18.37 # the selected one is also in the foreground, overlapping the other icons 03.18.50 # you can either scroll and it will lock to one or hit prev/next 03.18.52 # and there's some small text at the bottom ;) 03.19.20 # * [Saint] is an old man and absolutely cannot read that text. 03.19.30 # lol 03.19.32 # <[Saint]> ...'git off ma lawn! etc. 03.20.30 # <[Saint]> Its technically themeable, ...but, its rather nightmarish. 03.20.45 # <[Saint]> The iLoader syntax was a lot easier to grasp. 03.20.49 # the text isn't themable beyond its color 03.20.57 # <[Saint]> I meant, the entire thing. 03.20.58 # it uses emcore's system font 03.21.22 # [Saint]: well, this one is much easier to grasp for programmers :) 03.21.37 # or at least for programmers who have some experience with C 03.21.38 # <[Saint]> s/programmers/you/ :P 03.21.39 # ok it should be installed 03.21.47 # ty [Saint] TheSeven <3 03.22.03 # iloader was a LOT less flexible :) 03.23.10 # <[Saint]> As soon as I figured out the themeing in there, you went and changed it on me! :P 03.23.37 # look at http://websvn.freemyipod.org/listing.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Fapps%2Fbootmenu-ipodclassic%2F&#a42e57ac6d29ae41e6c8cdd2c67054be5 03.23.56 # I'm not sure if you are mixing it up with the old all-in-one-file mess 03.24.12 # <[Saint]> ...does it still ship with the Winter theme as default? 03.24.25 # brb my flashdrive isnt ejecting and i have to remount it 03.24.36 Quit wowaname (Quit: brb restarting vbox) 03.27.08 Join wowaname [0] (~wow@184.242.51.70) 03.28.37 # <[Saint]> wowaname: remember to check out the Tools menu in emCORE. 03.28.42 # <[Saint]> Specifically Fastboot. 03.28.48 # i am on it now lol 03.28.54 # <[Saint]> Most people aren't going to want to boot directly into emCORE> 03.28.56 # you mean tools=>settings :) 03.29.00 # <[Saint]> aha. Awesome. 03.29.08 # question: does VBox detect it as an unknown devicde 03.29.14 # <[Saint]> Sorry, yes. 03.29.18 # TheSeven» that's where i am :3 03.30.21 # <[Saint]> From now on, the iPod should be detected as plain old removable storage with the volume label iPodClassic 03.30.44 # <[Saint]> the fact that it is an ipod should be invisible to most sane things. 03.31.09 # ok 03.31.30 # <[Saint]> ...except Macs, crappy car stereos, iPod Docks, and maybe a few other cases I haven't seen. 03.31.40 # lol 03.31.56 # <[Saint]> they look at the ID, see its an iPod, try "talking iPod" to it, and fall over. 03.32.11 # wow 03.32.19 # lelelelelelelemacjustworkstmtmtmtm 03.32.36 # <[Saint]> well, its a safe assumption for them to make. 03.32.43 # ya 03.32.49 # [Saint]: ...and iTunes, lsusb, some linux media player software, ... 03.32.50 # <[Saint]> It just makes things interesting for Rockbox'ed iPods. 03.32.50 # still 03.32.54 # macjustworkstmtmtmt 03.33.09 # or, in summary: everything that relies on the USB ID to determine what it is will still see it as an iPod 03.33.22 # ya 03.33.32 # probably is more practical 03.34.40 # trying to figure difference between initial and idle timeouts 03.34.59 # initial = after powering it on 03.35.03 # oh 03.35.07 # idle = after not doing anything for a while 03.35.16 # makes perfect sense 03.35.26 # i like the system font 03.35.34 # <[Saint]> the initial timeout is essentially a safegaurd for accidental power on. 03.35.42 # so you can say "go back to sleep after 30 seconds, but wait 5 minutes instead if I have actually done something since I powered it on" 03.36.36 # <[Saint]> I just don't bother, since there's very little reason to ever be in the emCORE menu for most users. 03.36.42 # <[Saint]> fastboot FTW. 03.37.06 # <[Saint]> That's one of my happiest "bitched until it happened" features. :) 03.37.32 # that might need an explanation as well: fastboot means "boot straight into XY unless you keep pressing a button after powerup" 03.37.34 # curiosity kills the cat: how do i escape from terminal 03.37.48 # wowaname: by completely rebooting it using menu+select 03.37.51 # o 03.37.59 # or by telling it to do something via USB using emcore.py :) 03.39.43 # dammit windows decided to drivers 03.40.01 # well maybe that will be helpful 03.40.05 # oh good 03.40.47 # <[Saint]> I suspected it would be the case, but with a slight modification the Classic pretty much never boosts the CPU. 03.40.58 # <[Saint]> Similar to the Fuze+ 03.41.12 # <[Saint]> Its more than capable of handling mostly everything on the lowest clock. 03.41.14 # [Saint]: last time I tried that the UI was ultra-sluggish when unboosted 03.41.22 # <[Saint]> Its fine for me. 03.42.09 # time to make a shitty batch script :D 03.42.20 # AND change the mount letter 03.42.23 # <[Saint]> I can't perceive a difference between the UI boosted/unboosted. 03.42.44 # can i safely rename from iPodClassic 03.42.49 # <[Saint]> The UI is sluggish immediately after boot, though. 03.42.49 # wowaname: yes 03.42.56 # hm, are you sure that it's actually unboosted? 03.43.00 # <[Saint]> Yep. 03.43.06 # k 03.43.19 # interesting... so something must have changed, either in the UI code or the LCD driver 03.44.47 # what's the unboosted frequency? 03.44.51 # 48MHz? 03.45.26 # <[Saint]> 54 03.47.25 # <[Saint]> I've only been testing flac_8 and mp3@320CBR, though. 03.47.29 # <[Saint]> Nothing exotic. 03.49.20 # <[Saint]> pacman -S sudo xorg xorg-xinit xorg-twm xterm lxde obconf upower gamin polkit-gnome gvfs gvfs-smb gvfs-afb alsa-utils alsa-firmware alsa-lib alsa-plugins xf86-video-fbdev bash-completion 03.49.41 # <[Saint]> fuuuuuuck! Seriously Hayden! Gah! 03.50.12 # * [Saint] repeats endlessly "IRC is not a shell" 03.53.23 # * TheSeven grumbles about some messy upstart scripts 03.59.05 # hey is it just me or does syncing actually work faster than copying over to another drive 03.59.19 # and i dont mean a few files 03.59.22 Join soap [0] (~soap@cpe-174-102-96-10.woh.res.rr.com) 03.59.22 Quit soap (Changing host) 03.59.22 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 03.59.36 # i have had to resync my library a few times 03.59.47 # it may just be me :p 04.00.39 # <[Saint]> I don't mean to be an asshole, but, that makes no sense. 04.00.56 # <[Saint]> Syncing *is* "copying over to another drive". 04.01.19 # i am perfectly aware 04.01.31 # <[Saint]> You're just using a graphical utility of to save you dragging and dropping yourself. 04.01.33 # but some odd reason it seems like it copies over faster that way 04.01.37 # <[Saint]> One should be no faster than the other. 04.01.46 # >dragging and dropping 04.02.04 # i could have easily "copy %userprofile%\music\* i:\music\" 04.02.16 # i have a flat music directory 04.02.40 # may need to change that due to the filetree format in rockbox 04.03.06 # <[Saint]> Well, thankfully, Rockbox doesn't give a shit about where the files are located so long as they're not in /.rockbox (though, even that can be negated). 04.03.09 # <[Saint]> So, go nuts. 04.03.11 # ya 04.03.25 # that's really niced 04.03.27 # -d 04.07.41 # <[Saint]> If you really prefer file based navigation, then it might pay to use a sane system of placement. 04.07.58 # <[Saint]> But, if you're using the Database, and have sanely tagged files, ...it really doesn't matter. 04.07.59 # i prefer db 04.08.01 # ya 04.08.57 # <[Saint]> The Database is only as useful as the metadata is complete/accurate, though. 04.09.14 # <[Saint]> I suspect this is one of the reasons many users use the File Browser. 04.10.05 # i am very anal about tagging music 04.10.15 # hold on 04.10.22 # <[Saint]> The type that grabs several thousand individual, horribly tagged files from Limewire et al :) 04.10.35 # lele limewire 04.10.45 # i use downthemall and the index.of trick 04.11.54 # http://www.rockbox.org 04.11.56 # fuck 04.12.00 # ctrl+c 04.12.03 # http://i.imgur.com/2qjKv1C.png 04.12.08 # that's my layout 04.12.27 # wowaname: please dont go into how to illegally acquire music files in here... 04.12.42 # i wasnt going in detail but ok 04.13.10 # the imgur link was for foobar 04.17.59 # * [Saint] isn't so sure that downthemall == illegal 04.18.05 # <[Saint]> It can, sure. 04.18.12 # <[Saint]> Is it a given? No. 04.18.13 # it isn't. it can be used to do illegal things 04.18.17 # same as bittorrent 04.18.39 # a few GNU/Linux distros are downloadable as a torrent 04.40.32 Join amiconn_ [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.40.32 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.40.32 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.40.32 Join pixelma_ [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.40.35 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.40.35 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 05.03.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.06.30 Quit wowaname (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 05.25.24 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 05.25.29 Join [7] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.51.27 Join Jinx [0] (~Jinx@unaffiliated/jinx) 06.01.56 # <[Saint]> Does anyone have an interesting idea, or, any type of idea at all, as to how a progress bar might be represented textually? 06.03.35 # <[Saint]> I was thinking something along the lines of "ten twenty thirty FORTY fifty ..." but it needs rather a lot of screen real estate. 06.06.12 # <[Saint]> Hmmmm...maybe "10 20 30 FORTY 50 60 ..." 06.07.25 # <[Saint]> Backstory: trying to build a minimal theme based solely around text and numerals. 06.37.08 # |============= | is the usual way no? 06.39.38 # <[Saint]> Yeah, but I kinda wanted to go for as little non aAzZ0~9 chars as possible 06.40.22 # <[Saint]> The "Minimaltext" Adnroid widget is rather similar to the style I'm going for. 06.40.42 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 06.41.30 # <[Saint]> Like "fourTHIRTYfive PM MayTWELVE2013" etc. 06.43.45 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 06.48.14 # that doesn't look reable at all 06.48.33 # <[Saint]> its the fonts that make it so. 06.48.37 # <[Saint]> it looks crap here. 06.49.14 # <[Saint]> if you look at the minimaltext widget screenshots, its rather easy to get a lot of info from it at a glance 06.49.38 # [Saint]: "0%" ... "100%" 06.50.35 # <[Saint]> but what indicates the current percentile? 06.50.43 # the number does? 06.51.07 # <[Saint]> Oh, so you mean "0% N% 100%"? 06.51.11 # no 06.51.34 # <[Saint]> then I'm not sure I get it. 06.52.10 # <[Saint]> the current percentile is bolded, or colored? 06.52.31 # you mean the *only* percentile 06.52.31 # ;) 06.53.20 # <[Saint]> well, pardon me for misunderstanding, as this conversation is regarding a textual adaptation of a *bar* :) 06.53.32 # indeed 06.53.50 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06.53.58 # you did say you were going for a) minimality b) only text and numerals 06.54.06 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 06.54.21 # now, having unnecessary numbers on the screen emulating a GUI component is non-minimal, IMO 06.54.21 # yeah, doing a text rep of a bar is a bit dumb :) 06.54.53 # <[Saint]> That's not the point! 06.54.56 # <[Saint]> It looks cool. :) 06.56.00 # I disagree 06.56.15 # why not use the song title? 06.56.34 # "A " "A N " "A Ne " .... 06.56.49 # not sure how to do that in a skin though 06.56.55 # <[Saint]> I'm not aware of any mechanism that would make that possible. 06.58.47 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1) 06.59.33 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07.00.08 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 07.03.31 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.08.57 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@c-69-243-144-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 07.08.58 Quit tchan (Changing host) 07.08.58 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 07.10.22 Join dunpeal [0] (~dunpeal@unaffiliated/dunpeal) 07.10.56 # Yo yo. I'd like to get a 64GB micro-SDXC card for my Sansa Clip+. Would it work with Rockbox? 07.12.17 # <[Saint]> If formatted as FAT32, yes. 07.13.02 # [Saint]: Awesome. I have Clip+, Clip Zip, and an old Fuze. Would it work with them all under Rockbox? 07.13.14 # <[Saint]> Yes. 07.13.20 # Way cool, thanks. 07.13.33 # BTW, they're on sale on Amazon right now for $42 each. 07.13.47 # Class 10. 07.15.41 Quit Guest11127 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07.15.42 # <[Saint]> I have several of the 64GB SanDisk Extreme UHS-I cards. 07.16.15 # <[Saint]> Not that Rockbox needs, or can use, the speed or additional features therein. 07.16.16 # Yup, that very model: SanDisk Extreme 64 GB SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Flash Memory Card 45MB/s SDSDX-064G-X46 07.16.34 # <[Saint]> But its nice to be able to dump files on it quickly from a readeer. 07.16.45 # Yeah, that's the main advantage I figured. 07.17.20 # <[Saint]> realistically, for the requirements of the device itself for audio - even class 2 is excessive. 07.17.43 # <[Saint]> but for syncing, if you don't want to wait for a bajillion years, the faster the better. :) 07.18.09 # What about listing the very large collections implied by this amount of space? 07.18.26 # <[Saint]> 'sfine. 07.18.45 # [Saint]: what do you use for syncing, btw? I'm on Linux, do you just rsync? 07.20.24 # <[Saint]> yes. I have rather a lot of audio, so I have a script that trashes the contents of my music folder(s) on the device(s) and replaces it with as many full albums as possible, randomly chosen (well, kinda, there's a blacklist), from the network share. 07.21.29 # haha, blacklist, don't you like Bieber 07.21.36 # <[Saint]> Building the Database on-device at the next boot can be a bit of a PITA sometimes, but its something you only need to do once. 07.21.56 # right, that's actually another thing the reading speed would help 07.22.06 # ...except I never use the database, just the file list 07.22.25 # the file system should be enough of a cataloging system for everyone! 07.22.26 # <[Saint]> On my Classic, with ~158GB of mp3@320 CBR, building the database takes a 'lil while :) 07.23.01 # <[Saint]> I like the Database due to the advanced sorting options, as I have nicely tagged media files. :) 07.23.18 # ah. My tagging generally sucks. 07.23.30 # what kind of advanced sorting do you use? 07.25.22 # <[Saint]> primarily auto-sorting of podcasts. 07.26.28 # I wrote my own tagging program that re-tags everything by alphabetical file order 07.27.17 # <[Saint]> I use picard. 07.27.26 # <[Saint]> best. tagger. ever. 07.50.39 Quit rdn (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 08.03.01 Join rdn [0] (~oop@cpe-69-204-124-212.buffalo.res.rr.com) 08.08.27 Join Guest11127 [0] (Slayer@c-69-143-178-62.hsd1.va.comcast.net) 08.14.04 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 08.16.12 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 08.16.17 Join bluebrother^ [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 08.17.24 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.19.11 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053152099.adsl.alicedsl.de) 08.23.41 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) 08.33.47 Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 08.34.34 Quit shai (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08.35.22 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) 08.54.30 # [Saint]: Mr. Gordon's idea could possibly work with the help of a monospace font, conditional viewports (widths that fit x characters) and the %px tag with as many divisions as you can fit characters on the screen part you to use. The code would probably be quite complicated though 08.55.04 # <[Saint]> Ooooohhhh...nice. 08.55.13 # <[Saint]> That is rather creative. 08.55.42 # haven't tried though 08.56.44 # <[Saint]> its possible, but it would require a lot of viewports. 08.57.00 # that too 09.03.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.06.14 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2a01:d0:ffff:34a::8:3) 09.08.49 Join LinusN [0] (linus@giant.haxx.se) 09.11.31 # [Saint]: turning on the iPod, then connecting it to a USB port, is a "weird hack"? 09.11.34 # what? 09.12.39 # <[Saint]> ...that's clearly a bug. 09.12.56 # Copper: I know it's experience based. The more you use, the more you come to know about it. But is there any guide/tutorial/wiki/manual on such tiny but important & helpful facts on regulations of iPod on rockbox? 09.13.01 # not really, mostly because no-one's really identified what exactly causes such bugs 09.13.06 # so there is no definitive solution 09.13.24 # I think I was being pretty clear about the fact that that was a bug. 09.15.01 # <[Saint]> You told him it was "normal". It isn't. 09.15.09 # what, no 09.15.21 # <[Saint]> It absolutely should work from USB insertion at poweroff, and it not doing so is a bug. 09.15.25 # yes 09.15.36 # I didn't say otherwise, or at least I didn't mean to 09.16.00 # ^^ "what exactly causes such bugs" 09.16.07 # is that not clear 09.16.27 # <[Saint]> [06:51:12] so, is this the normal iPod/rockbox maintainance rule/method here to connect after turning on ? 09.16.27 # <[Saint]> [06:53:51] SovonHalder: yes 09.16.32 # <[Saint]> ...that's blatantly untrue. 09.16.49 # turning on and connecting is normal 09.16.57 # not the bug 09.17.12 # <[Saint]> WHat's normal is its supposed to fucking work. :) 09.17.49 # what I said isn't blatantly untrue 09.18.04 # <[Saint]> Telling people its normal to power on before inserting USB, and that its a "rockox rule/method" is quite far from the truth. 09.18.38 # the truth is that Rockbox + iPod Classic + USB = bugs 09.18.58 # so go ahead and blame me if you will, I don't care 09.18.59 # <[Saint]> Right. So say that. Don;t make broad, sweeping, largely untrue statements. 09.19.10 # you're overreaching 09.19.33 # <[Saint]> I am not. You're applying a workaround that you yourself do, to every Rockob target. 09.19.41 # <[Saint]> *box 09.19.51 # and you mean to give none, do you? 09.19.59 # sorry for trying to help 09.20.07 # I'm sorry that it WORKED for him, too 09.20.10 # SORRY 09.20.18 # … 09.21.03 # <[Saint]> The problem is that you stated that its "the normal method", and failed to mention that this was a target specific workwaround that only some people need to use - for an unsupported target no less. 09.21.40 Join Zambezi_ [0] (Zulu@bnc.fran.hostbay.nu) 09.21.56 # yeah. I'm not gonna get mad about this. 09.22.05 Join dv__ [0] (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at) 09.22.12 # So not worth it. 09.22.19 # <[Saint]> Saying "you can do this to make it work" is great. Saying that its the approved method for Rockbox is terribly misleading. 09.22.36 Quit Zambezi (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09.25.42 Quit dv_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09.28.45 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 09.59.53 # oh, great 09.59.56 Quit [Saint] (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 10.00.02 # different targets ship with different fonts 10.00.23 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) 10.00.25 # 15-Adobe-Helvetica.fnt for the iPod Classic, 12-Adobe-Helvetica.fnt for the Fuze+ 10.01.16 # hmmm, I guess that depends on the display 10.04.22 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@v-413-alfarv-177.bitnet.nu) 10.04.48 # how does Rockbox determine what font to use, when the font that's specified in the theme isn't present? 10.06.24 # er, it seems to revert to some default font that isn't a font file 10.15.12 Quit sakax_ (Quit: Leaving) 10.15.37 Join sakax [0] (~sakax@unaffiliated/sakax) 10.31.17 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10.32.06 # [Saint]: it seems like your Ubuntu font pack .zip file can't be extracted with regular "unzip" on Linux 10.32.10 # works with 7z 10.32.50 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 10.33.36 Quit rdn (Remote host closed the connection) 10.39.38 # Also, is there a way to handle different font sizes in a theme? To make sure that text is correctly aligned with various font sizes. 10.50.15 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net) 11.03.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.05.39 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@lns-c10k-ld-02-m-212-194-176-149.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) 11.24.10 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 11.48.59 Nick dv__ is now known as dv_ (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at) 11.50.41 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 12.03.57 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 12.26.03 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12.31.53 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) 12.35.11 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12.38.47 # <[Saint]> copper: yes, I really should replace it, 7zip likes to make broken archives. 12.39.20 # <[Saint]> and, possibly, but, it isn't pretty. 12.40.06 # <[Saint]> You could nest a bunch of really fucked up conditions to check for specific font names. 12.40.14 # gevaerts: have you ever tried to profile the whole usb stack + ums driver ? 12.40.52 # I just did a very simple test: add a ramdisk and limit its read speed, ie all reads are at exactly 15MB/s. Then expose it over usb and I get 10.1MB/s read speed 12.41.33 # if I do nothing (ie not even a memcpy), we top at 22MB/s which is not that bad but probably could do better 12.43.07 # <[Saint]> %?if(%St,=,/full/path/to/and/name/of/font.fnt)>> 12.43.13 # <[Saint]> copper: ^ 12.43.21 Join Insider[away] [0] (~Johnnie@host83-104-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 12.43.22 # <[Saint]> see, ugly as fuck - but, potentially possible. 12.43.43 Nick Insider[away] is now known as Insider (~Johnnie@host83-104-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) 12.43.53 # HI all 12.44.50 # <[Saint]> Hello, Insider - if you have a question, just ask it - plenty of people here. 12.46.07 # I have purchased a Creative Zen X-Fi 3. I like it except for the volume level. Too low (expecially the European version and with latest firmware). I wish to understand (I'm a developer) if there's a way to modify the original firmware to remove the volume level limitation. 12.46.32 # volume go from 0 to 31, maybe good if the volume can go up to (e.g.) 47 12.47.15 # <[Saint]> European FW are required to have a volume cap, is flashing a non-European version an option? 12.47.33 # <[Saint]> (modifying the original firmware is kinda outside the scope of this channel) 12.47.53 # <[Saint]> However, I do believe there's a Rockbox port for this device underway. 12.48.01 # <[Saint]> pamaury: ^? 12.48.01 # I really don't understand the reason of this limitation. Are European people more sensible to sound than other? 12.48.09 # Insider: I am working on the Zen X-Fi3. Modifying the firmware is really not an option, too much work 12.48.25 # However it is possible to flash a non-european firmware I think 12.48.32 # pamury I think there's some test if (vol>31)vol = 31; somewhere 12.48.40 # it's very hard to found it? 12.48.59 # <[Saint]> A Rockbox port *will* expose the full range of the target's volume...however, a stable port may be "some time away, to possibly never" 12.49.23 # Insider: the OF if a 30MB binary blob, so yes it's hard to find 12.49.53 # the problem is that we cannot simulate the device on PC 12.49.55 # <[Saint]> (this is coming from a reverse engineering expert, btw) 12.50.00 # that's running the firmware on an emulator 12.50.10 # <[Saint]> ...one that manages to baffle the other RE experts with his skill :) 12.50.12 # plus I don't see the point, obviously I want to support rockbox 12.50.42 # I'm can detect such test, if I can run the firmware on my PC 12.50.46 # there's no emulator? 12.50.47 # If I *really* wanted, with the upcoming tool we are writing we could *maybe* figure that out but I would advise you to use rockbox instead ;) 12.50.52 # I* 12.50.54 # <[Saint]> Indeed. The firmware on those things is pretty crap. 12.50.57 # no there is none 12.51.22 # I have some experience in develop emulators 12.51.56 # the problem with rockbox is that actually doesn't implement all the original features. 12.52.13 # <[Saint]> To write a full emulator, you'd need to completely understand the hardware, and at that point, you could write your own firmware for it - defeating the purpose slightly. 12.52.34 # that's just too much work, this chip is too complicated, that would take ages to write a complete emulator 12.52.51 # <[Saint]> take ages, and not be terribly useful. 12.53.22 # The best option is really to flash a non-european version 12.53.33 # <[Saint]> And no, Rockbox won't implement the (mostly non-essential) Xfi sound enhancements. 12.53.52 # <[Saint]> However, Rockbox could almost certainly make up for this with its own extensive feature set. 12.54.13 # no radio and no recording 12.54.16 # actually 12.54.27 # <[Saint]> *yet* 12.55.32 # recording should work now, but radio we have an experimental driver, which works but no RDS and probably not sure high quality. Takes times 12.55.52 # An idea could be make a comparison between european and non-european firmware 12.56.00 # in order to check the difference 12.56.29 # <[Saint]> If you were willing to focus your efforts on the ridiculously daunting task of writing a full emulator, maybe your efforts may be better served by helping with the Rockbox port. 12.56.40 # <[Saint]> No one here has any interest in the original firmware. 12.56.52 # no, no, I ask only if a such things already exists. 12.57.02 # <[Saint]> Ah. 12.57.05 # I know that writing one is a very long task 12.57.19 # I write a C64 Emulator in past, and I know how much time it require 12.58.01 # Ok, there's some place when I can get old version of firmware? 12.58.18 # It is not that simple, a simple change here and then everything is different at the binary level. And you understand that we don't really want to support such firmware modification 12.58.27 # Insider: creative website 12.58.33 # <[Saint]> Creative, one assumes. 12.58.39 # creative gives only the latest. 12.58.48 # as far as I see. 12.58.55 # they keep all the one they publish usually 12.59.57 # oh they have a published a new one: 1.00.25e, need to add this one to our tools 13.00.28 # yes and looks like that from 1.00.22e they have introduced another volume limitation 13.00.39 # (for european versions) 13.00.45 # the volume is very low 13.00.53 # indeed I cannot access the older ones. I have the 1.00.22e and 1.00.15e on my computer 13.01.10 # haha ! 13.01.20 # go here: http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=948&CatName=Entertainment+Devices+%2F+MP3+Players&prodID=20866&prodName=ZEN+X-Fi3 13.01.28 # and in the search box, type 1.00.22e 13.03.38 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.04.05 # this redirect me to zen 300 1.00.22e firmware 13.04.10 # not x-fi 3 13.04.30 # ah right, hum, they on internet they might be mirrors 13.04.34 # [Saint]: thanks, I totally missed the %St tag 13.05.13 # of found it 13.05.16 # ok found it 13.05.48 # actually I'm wondering: is there any non-european version ?! 13.06.04 # <[Saint]> apparently not. 13.06.18 # <[Saint]> and the "go here; search for blah" method returns no results for me. :) 13.06.42 # Insider: however the device might prevent itself from downgrading using the standard update mechanism 13.07.58 # yes 13.11.27 # so the firmware is unique? 13.11.42 # it recognized the european version from hardware? 13.11.44 # what do you mean by unique ? 13.11.52 # no european version 13.11.53 # I don't know 13.12.14 # <[Saint]> Is there a locale setting in the FW? 13.12.31 # usually yes 13.12.41 # I had the Creative Zen M300 13.13.08 # you can setup the country, but the volume doesn't change 13.13.13 # <[Saint]> I don't care about usually. I'm talking about this specific instance. 13.13.27 Quit Torne (Remote host closed the connection) 13.13.37 # <[Saint]> And if that's the case, then, there's approximately nothing you can do, I guess. 13.13.43 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 13.13.50 # I think that the policy adopted is the same. 13.14.44 # good alternative to zen x-fi 3? One thing I link of Creative players is the battery. 13.14.57 # I compared it with Sansa Clip + 13.15.08 # 7 hour (Sansa), 20 hour (Creative) 13.15.40 # <[Saint]> If you're getting 7h with the Clip+, you're doing something wrong. 13.15.51 # <[Saint]> ...or the battery is on its way out. 13.17.21 # <[Saint]> Using Rockbox, the Clip+ should be getting between 10~17h 13.17.38 # <[Saint]> the OF should be getting around 10 at least. 13.20.52 # <[Saint]> ...unless a recent firmware update slashed a few hours off their runtime, which I doubt. 13.21.03 # Insider: was the sound okay in older versions of the zen x-fi3 firmware ? 13.21.40 # yes, starting from 1.00.22e it become low 13.21.55 # I found the 1.00.15e 13.22.04 # [Saint]: actually: %?if(%St(font), =, 14-Nimbus) 13.22.06 # but however this restore some old bug 13.22.39 # <[Saint]> copper: aha, I was unsure if it stripped the path or not. 13.23.33 # Insider: ok i'll see what I do, maybe I can shift the volume range, that looks more feasible than removing a volume cap 13.23.37 # <[Saint]> copper: remember you can nest checks for other cases in the "other" section you have there. 13.24.37 Join SovonHalder [0] (SovonHalde@115.187.54.228) 13.24.54 # yes 13.25.01 # pamaury did you have some disassembler? 13.25.15 # what processor it have? 13.25.16 # ARM? 13.25.20 # <[Saint]> %?if(%St(font),=,14-Nimbus)>> 13.25.24 # copper: how far is everything about themes ? 13.25.44 # SovonHalder: made a lot of changes, I'm getting there 13.26.13 # I use IDA pro, it's an ARMv5 (arm926ej-s) 13.26.38 # the admin there made a very interesting and useful coment on anythingbutipod 13.27.02 # I'd like to do investigation too. But I'm not sure what instruments I have to use. 13.27.53 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13.28.49 # there's not a way to execute the firmware in order to see the ui (with no sound or other things), isn't it? 13.29.07 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 13.29.37 # <[Saint]> No. 13.33.07 Quit SovonHalder () 13.39.58 # pamaury: extracting the firmware update files, I have the 'firmware.sb' file, but IDA cannot open it. 13.40.14 # (I have tried the non PRO version of IDA) 13.40.38 # It's counterintuitive that %Vd(a) needs to be specified BEFORE %Vl(a,-) 13.41.07 # <[Saint]> it needn't. 13.41.23 # it doesn't work otherwise 13.41.55 # brb 13.41.59 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13.41.59 # <[Saint]> it certainly should. 13.42.29 # Insider: it needs to be decrypted using a tool I wrote 13.44.37 # the simplest way is probably to clone our repository, because you will need quite a few files 13.44.53 # I have downloaded the VM 13.45.45 # Ok, I don't recall exactly what is in the VM, do you have a copy of our repository somewhere in it ? 13.46.28 # you can use this: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsingGit 13.47.01 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure if the VM image has been updated since the switch to git 13.47.32 # it doesn't really matter as long as there is git in the VM 13.50.00 # <[Saint]> copper: the reason for it happening like that is because if you do %Vl(foo....); %Vd(foo), foo isn't active yet, so %Vd(foo) never gets called. 13.50.22 # <[Saint]> But, if there's a fullscreen static viewport in between the two, %Vd(foo) will be called. 13.51.35 # <[Saint]> That's basically asking the viewport to fire itself, as everything after a viewport declaration is included within that viewport, until the next viewport declaration. 13.51.53 # * Insider is cloning... 13.54.17 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 13.58.38 # ok cloned. 13.58.56 # pamaury, where your tool is located? 14.00.21 # cd rbutil/mkimxboot 14.00.23 # make 14.33.25 Quit Torne (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14.35.31 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne) 14.38.31 # I don't suppose it's possible to have a viewport inside a larger viewport? 14.38.58 # handling different font sizes is rather impractical 14.39.36 # it would be a lot more doable if I could have a single %?if() for the font size, that would select a "master" viewport 14.40.55 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14.41.24 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 14.41.25 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@2001:638:605:4:d859:aab9:d450:2c76) 14.41.44 # oh, it works? :O 14.42.55 # "Viewports can share identifiers so you don't end up with bloated code" 14.42.59 # I don't understand that sentence 14.46.17 # nah that doesn't work 14.53.44 Join soap [0] (~soap@cpe-174-102-96-10.woh.res.rr.com) 14.53.44 Quit soap (Changing host) 14.53.44 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 14.59.09 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14.59.15 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 15.03.43 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.04.38 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 15.05.24 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15.06.40 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053153140.adsl.alicedsl.de) 15.07.01 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15.11.45 # <[Saint]> copper, for example, several viewports can share an identifier and be called at once. 15.12.01 # <[Saint]> identifiers needn't be unique. 15.12.57 # Ah, I see 15.12.59 # thank you 15.13.25 # <[Saint]> and no, you cannot embed a viewport in another viewport except the global default viewport (fullscreen) 15.20.22 # <[Saint]> Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but, for readabilities sake identifiers needn't be single character. 15.21.20 # <[Saint]> For example, you can do %Vl(metadata display viewport, .......); %Vd(metadata display viewport) 15.21.33 # yes only "m" will count 15.21.42 # <[Saint]> =No. 15.21.45 # <[Saint]> -+ 15.21.48 # ? 15.21.49 # <[Saint]> = even 15.21.58 # what? 15.22.12 # <[Saint]> no, the entire indentifer would be "metadata display viewport" 15.22.27 # <[Saint]> they haven't been limited to single characters for ages. 15.22.27 # the wiki says "a single lowercase character" 15.22.33 # meh! 15.22.37 # <[Saint]> the wiki is wrong. 15.22.40 # geez 15.22.41 # <[Saint]> It usually is. 15.22.56 # well thanks for the heads up! 15.23.11 # spaces ok? 15.23.34 # "metadata display viewport" <--- that's a valid identifier? 15.23.40 # <[Saint]> should be, yes. but I'm not certain. 15.24.19 # <[Saint]> everything before the first "," should be considered the ident 15.25.01 Nick Zambezi_ is now known as Zambezi (Zulu@bnc.fran.hostbay.nu) 15.25.20 Quit Zambezi (Changing host) 15.25.20 Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi) 15.26.18 # <[Saint]> Another thing the wiki probably doesn't mention is that subimages for bitmapstrips needn't be done as %?XX<%xd(Aa)|%xd(Ab|%xd(Ac)... anymore, which limited you to 26 subimages. 15.26.39 # you might want to edit it 15.26.57 # <[Saint]> you can now do %?xx<%xd(identifer,1)|%xd(identifier, 2)|...etc 15.27.43 # <[Saint]> I need to go through and trash the wiki in favor of the manual. 15.27.52 # <[Saint]> Consolidating the info from both. 15.28.05 # <[Saint]> Hilariously, neither is complete. 15.28.22 # [Saint]: more than 26 subimages. Aa>Az then AA > AZ 15.28.34 # <[Saint]> AH, yes, sorry, 52. 15.28.49 # which is enough in most cases 15.29.53 # <[Saint]> But, try looking at the code and figuring out which number xd(ZF) is referring to. :) 15.30.18 # <[Saint]> %xd(Z, 32)...much nicer. 15.30.31 # <[Saint]> %xd(image_name, 32)...nicer still 15.33.25 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15.34.02 # I prefer %?pv<%xd(Ga)|...|%xd(GK)> than %?pv<%xd(volume,1)|...|%xd(volume,32)> which would be much longer 15.34.06 # quick lines are better 15.34.39 # <[Saint]> It would be longer, yes, but parse in exactly the same time with the bonus of being readily human readable. 15.35.44 # short lines* 15.36.15 # would be more readable indeed. 15.36.50 # <[Saint]> see: http://pastebin.com/VdrjdbjS for an example 15.37.26 # <[Saint]> (yes, I know the caps are ugly - but, I use caps to make idents obvious) 15.39.43 # did you known of some mp3 player (with microsdhc slot) with both advantages of Sansa Clip (high output volume for european) and Creative Zen (long battery life)? 15.40.27 # <[Saint]> Well, in here, we'd only care about Rockbox targets - where the volume cap is irrelevant. 15.40.42 # goddamn, I'm getting there 15.40.45 # <[Saint]> The Zen also doesn't have particularly long battery life. 15.41.00 # my Zen M300 have full 20 hour of mp3 playback 15.41.00 # handling 3 different fonts: 14-Nimbus, 19-Nimbus, 21-Adobe-Helvetica 15.41.07 # <[Saint]> 20 hours is *nothing* 15.41.08 # (had*) 15.41.16 # making sure everything is correctly positionned and aligned with any of those 3 fonts 15.41.18 # but is about double of Sansa 15.41.47 # <[Saint]> As I mentioned earlier, for you to be getting 7 hours out of a Clip+, something was wrong. 15.42.26 # <[Saint]> Rockbox cab squeeze 17 hours out of a Clip+ 15.42.29 # <[Saint]> *can 15.42.47 # it support also Clip Zip? 15.42.50 # I reach 10-15hrs with my 3 year old clip+ 15.43.04 # <[Saint]> iPod Classic 6G ("fat"), with Rockbox...? 15.43.09 # <[Saint]> ~54 hours 15.43.34 # <[Saint]> And, yes, the Clip Zip is supported. 15.43.54 # I think I'll buy a Clip Zip 15.44.35 # I can't found a better mp3 player for that price. 15.44.37 # <[Saint]> The touchpad on it is really horrible. 15.44.44 # <[Saint]> *really* horrible. 15.44.51 # ah! 15.44.53 # :( 15.44.56 # touchpad on clip zip?! 15.45.20 # <[Saint]> Whoops, I mentally replaced Clip Zip with Fuze+ 15.45.21 # but why a touch interface on a mp3 player?? 15.45.29 # ! 15.45.39 # <[Saint]> Sorry, I messed up. I was thinking of the Fuze+, not the CLip Zip. 15.45.54 # ah ok 15.46.14 # <[Saint]> The Zip is a nice little player. 15.46.23 # <[Saint]> Though, I've only used mine like 3 times. 15.46.35 # <[Saint]> Cute little screen. 15.46.50 # I had the Clip + in past 15.47.03 # I remember it was very fast 15.47.49 # but one day, I'm about to charge it (pluggin the usb) and the player dead. 15.48.18 # <[Saint]> This is all too common for these devices, apparently. 15.48.25 # the display take off, it become very hot 15.48.38 # Sansa series suffer of that problem. 15.48.43 #