--- Log for 16.02.114 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 2 days and 20 hours ago 00.05.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.17.10 # <[Saint]> nonMOOSE: It might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with our fine manual. 00.17.56 # <[Saint]> Though, although Rockbox has changed a lot in the past 4~5 years, at least two of the things you stated never happened, ever, 5 years ago or otherwise. 00.18.31 # <[Saint]> ...and, soap already said that. Yay. I'm blind today. 00.26.48 Quit ender` (Quit: Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I) 00.37.25 Join Water255 [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-68-253-224-176.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) 00.41.40 # Is it okay if I ask, here, how much a coder would charge me to modify the source code to do something I want? 00.42.45 # I guess you can ask what has to be done not how much would it cost 00.50.13 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 00.54.20 # <[Saint]> I would /hope/, that the active developers wouldn't be moved by money, though. 00.54.40 # <[Saint]> I would much rather assist someone to do what they wanted than take a paycheck for it. 00.55.01 # Well, it depends on a lot of things 00.56.18 # <[Saint]> In an ideal world I would like to see any funds claimed diverted back to Rockbox. But, that's me. 00.56.40 # <[Saint]> Of course, we still don;t know that what you want to do is even possible. :) 00.56.46 # Well... 00.58.01 # Suppose someone wants something done that's a *significant* (e.g. several months full time) amount of work, and not generally useful, you'd basically need someone to take this up as a job 00.58.17 # I'm guessing that's not the case here though :) 00.58.30 # <[Saint]> Right, but it irks me that that would be on the back of thousands of hours of unpaid work. 00.58.40 # <[Saint]> ANd none of those developers get paid. 00.58.43 # Why? 00.59.12 # <[Saint]> I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but, it doesn't sit right with me. 00.59.24 # You should have worked on a CC NC project then :) 00.59.31 # <[Saint]> Heh. :) 00.59.34 # Aren't most requests either keymap changes (because a button broke, or because someone's finger hurts somehow) or changes to remove features (e.g. radio)? 01.00.07 # <[Saint]> I guess we need to wait with baited breath and see what Water255 actually wants. 01.01.12 # Wow, sorry guys, I just realized i was getting replies... reading.... oh, btw this is what I want: How much money would a anyone want to modify the Fuze+ source so that it does this: When device is in hold mode, the mechanical 'volume up' key works like the 'play / pause' key, and mechanical 'volume down' key works like the rewind key? 01.01.40 # That's just *wrong*! 01.01.43 # <[Saint]> You could do that yourself *incredibly* trivially. 01.01.50 # <[Saint]> And, yes. It is wrong. :) 01.02.30 # yeah just edit the keymap file, then follow the instructions to compile 01.02.49 # oh wait while the screen is on hold 01.02.52 # yeah 01.02.53 # not sure how that works actually 01.03.28 # <[Saint]> I imagine just the same as software hold works. 01.03.38 # <[Saint]> *unless* the hold key actually disables the buttons. 01.03.42 # <[Saint]> Then you're screwed. 01.03.54 # they wake the screen while in hold 01.03.54 # IIRC on software hold devices button presses are dropped, so probably you have to edit the software hold code to not do that 01.10.29 # editing the code to do that shouldn't be very hard but the "to rewind" part kind of irk me 01.10.58 # okay - 'skip back' button? 01.12.05 # I have a build environment set up. 01.12.24 # no I mean, you could easily make it rewind if you want, I just don't understand why you would want to do that :) 01.13.26 # i listen to speech a lot while working. Sometimes I'll miss a few seconds, and I need to skip back. 01.14.16 # ok, make sense 01.14.29 # <[Saint]> We have a function for that, do we not? 01.14.34 # I'm sure making the buttons do this would be pretty easy, but "only while on hold" is where I wouldn't know where to start 01.14.34 # <[Saint]> rewind N seconds? 01.14.47 # * [Saint] is pretty sure we can do that. 01.15.14 # So... RB contribution? 01.15.26 # [Saint]: we haver a rewind on pause function I think 01.15.55 # <[Saint]> Ohhhh, sorry. I'm thinking of skip length. 01.16.00 # <[Saint]> Yeah, not quite the same. 01.16.14 # I just want to button to do i have the real rewind button set to do in the settings. 01.17.29 # that sounds pretty doable, at least in an ugly way ^^ 01.17.40 # ugly is fine 01.19.30 # pamaury: Any recommendation for string hashing function? I did google survey but I can't really judge anything except expected computational effort 01.19.40 Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01.20.27 # And for the mechanical volume-up button to do whatever the 'play / pause' button does (i.e. long-hold == stop and create bookmark). 01.21.55 # wodz: have a look at this: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/49550/which-hashing-algorithm-is-best-for-uniqueness-and-speed 01.22.02 # looks very serious 01.23.28 # [Saint]: shutdown in menu needs a new LANG id.... i tried it last night and with an old lang file it messed things up 01.24.26 # <[Saint]> If the user installed the new build, it would come with a new lang file, so I don't understand the problem. 01.24.54 # <[Saint]> A partial install is a good way to break stuff, yes. 01.26.00 # <[Saint]> Hmmm...though I guess that only works right off the bat for english.lang 01.26.26 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 01.27.17 # <[Saint]> Actually...no. 01.28.10 # <[Saint]> If the lang file and binary are from the same build, it should "Just Work", I believe. 01.29.03 # <[Saint]> I haven't seen any issue with English, but I don't test any other languages. Nor do I deliberately test with old lang files..because, why? 01.30.22 # Water255: in any case you're first step is to setup a build environment 01.30.45 # <[Saint]> [13:12:07] I have a build environment set up. 01.30.46 # Already set up. 01.33.01 # sorry, missed that message ^^ I don't remember the code enough to propose a patch right now but I can have a look for tomorrow maybe 01.33.20 # [Saint]: i agree... but yeah, we try not to break old lang files remember? :) 01.34.20 # <[Saint]> JdGordon: It would seem to me that this would be working around a broken installation. 01.34.29 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure why we should do that, personally. 01.34.38 # pamaury: That would be great. Thank you. 01.34.46 # <[Saint]> If you replace just the binary - you're asking for trouble. 01.35.02 # <[Saint]> ZZFull install? Works. All is well. Everyone happy. 01.35.06 # <[Saint]> -ZZ 01.35.54 # <[Saint]> And even if we did give it a new LANG id, if the user had an old lang file, it *still* wouldn;t work. 01.36.05 # <[Saint]> ..because neither the old, nor the new, ID would be there. 01.36.07 # pamaury: it looks like fnv1 or fnv1a are good candidates. 01.37.05 # <[Saint]> I see this as a non-issue. 01.37.20 # <[Saint]> Even if I change the lang id, an old lang file is still going to shit it up. 01.37.27 # <[Saint]> As it should. 01.37.47 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 01.37.55 # wodz: my guess is that you should try on actual data see if you get collisions 01.38.53 # <[Saint]> So, yeah: TL;DR - Update your bloody lang file with the build. ;) 01.55.51 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140210161136]) 01.56.25 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.140.62.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 02.01.50 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-233-161.mcn.bellsouth.net) 02.05.52 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.33.30 Join Water255_ [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-68-253-226-53.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) 02.34.03 Quit Water255 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 02.34.10 Nick Water255_ is now known as Water255 (~chatzilla@adsl-68-253-226-53.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) 02.43.39 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 02.46.18 # [Saint]: this is what we do... this is what we always do. if the string isnt in the lang file the user will get the inbuilt english string 02.47.01 # <[Saint]> But the string _should_ be in the lang file. 02.47.11 # <[Saint]> If it isn't, by definition, its a broken install. 02.47.28 # <[Saint]> You can't expect a mismatched install to work. Nor should you. 02.47.52 # english.lang is compiled into the binary 02.49.15 # <[Saint]> Right. ANd it should bloody well "Just Work" if you're using English and/or a current *lang file. 02.49.30 # <[Saint]> I really don't understand the problem. 02.49.44 # <[Saint]> If you have old lang files floating around, fix it. 02.51.06 # <[Saint]> I've had two people tell me that the system is designed to cope with this and adding a voice string to a previously unvoiced lang ID is perfectly fine. 02.51.18 Quit dfkt (Remote host closed the connection) 02.51.23 # <[Saint]> ...and I've seen no issue personally. 02.52.45 # <[Saint]> That being said, if there's some problem I'm just not seeing, I believe you know how gerrit works. 02.55.53 # <[Saint]> I feel I should point out that all I did was bring your origial version that did the exact same thing up to date. ;) 02.56.30 # i know... 03.07.53 Quit Gallomimia (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03.32.11 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) 03.40.06 Quit Water255 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025150754]) 03.40.14 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04.05.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.11.29 Join ungali [0] (~ungali@unaffiliated/ungali) 04.14.02 Quit endee_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04.16.47 Join endee_ [0] (sid15467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzkscuytitsvnipc) 04.23.13 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.23.13 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.23.13 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.23.13 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.23.15 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.23.15 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.40.14 Join bzed_ [0] (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) 04.41.31 Quit bzed (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04.41.38 Nick bzed_ is now known as bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) 05.05.41 Quit Zarggg (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05.11.48 Quit [7] (Disconnected by services) 05.12.01 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.34.27 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Leaving) 05.34.40 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-233-161.mcn.bellsouth.net) 06.05.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.38.48 Quit alexbobp (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06.39.52 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@capitalthree.pwnz.org) 07.27.21 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) 07.41.20 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.140.62.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 08.04.39 Quit ps-auxw (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08.06.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.11.26 Join akaWolf [0] (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) 09.00.58 Join draft [0] (draft@irc.disharmony.fi) 09.02.08 # hello 09.04.01 # has anyone installed Rockbox on iPod 4G Nano? 09.23.30 # <[Saint]> no. 09.33.37 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 09.51.55 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-178-161.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 10.06.02 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 10.23.45 Join guestnano2g [0] (b3b0c334@gateway/web/freenode/ip.179.176.195.52) 10.38.30 Part ungali 10.40.53 # hello! I'm developing a theme for ipod nano2g (and publish in Rockbox theme site :D ),I wanted to know if you still have people trying to fix USB for ipod nano2g,is too slow (and dangerous) rebooting in apple firmware constantly. 10.49.51 # [Saint]: reading last night's log, I thought JdGordon was talking about older voice files which aren't updated automatically with the build. There I'm not sure if kugel's earlier comment about IDs was correct. IIRC what happens if you don't do this correctly is that voice users get different things spoken for all strings below the changed one in the source. When done right thebn at least existing things are still correct and only the new one won't 10.49.51 # be spoken with an old voice file. 10.54.58 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-75-151-160.dynamic.chello.pl) 10.55.28 # holly crap! if this is right http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48014.msg227064/topicseen.html#msg227064 , clip sport is based on atj2127 SoC 10.57.25 # That would be really pity as it is truly weird SoC 10.59.14 # not loading for me 10.59.50 # "waiting for forums.rockbox.org…" 11.00.44 # basically if this IS atj2127 rockbox for this little player will nott happen 11.01.13 # not well documented enough? 11.01.52 # not loading either 11.02.11 # That is only part of the story. This SoC is mips4k core + DSP with VERY limited memory splited into a few banks 11.02.25 # so, not ARM 11.02.37 # it is not like general purpose processor 11.02.57 # well, that sucks 11.02.58 # the memory layout is truly awkward 11.03.02 # I was almost tempted 11.03.43 # That is based on what I know about atj2127. Maybe someone proves me wrong 11.04.31 # that's weird 11.04.46 # doesn't that mean more work for SanDisk to develop the firmware? 11.04.48 # the mem is 88kB total IIRC 11.04.55 # wodz: I don't see where it is written in the forum thread 11.05.10 # copper: they got sdk from actions to start with 11.05.18 # lebellium: look at the pictures 11.05.27 # from the last post 11.05.41 # there are none 11.05.44 # there is no picture in the last post 11.06.11 # there are links 11.06.23 # one link 11.06.28 # no picture there either 11.06.49 # I'm not registered though 11.06.53 # http://i57.tinypic.com/1z6gyh.jpg 11.07.13 # ah.... 11.07.17 # you talk about ABI 11.07.23 # why linking the rockbox forum then 11.07.42 # no, I read this from our forum 11.07.56 # okay I see the CPU now 11.07.56 # <[Saint]> I almost want to believe that silkscreen is trolling... 11.07.58 # that's on ABI 11.08.18 # <[Saint]> That's a very odd choice. 11.08.30 # <[Saint]> Even if you are handy with the schematics. 11.08.44 # why is it 4 times the same pic 11.09.07 # anyway 11.09.15 # needs moar RMAA 11.20.28 # wodz: 88 KiB of total RAM? 11.20.39 # that sounds insane 11.22.28 # hmm, now thinking about voice files... more things come to mind. I wonder what (if anything) kugel changed lately for voice files not fitting in RAM on harddisk based Archoses. Earlier it was recommended to squeeze the size of the voice file (different quality, stronger compression) until it fits. Chunked loading as done for the flash based Ondio has disadvantages on harddisk - you would need to wait for the disk to spin up which also drains the 11.22.28 # batteries way more 11.22.55 # wodz: that's not even enough for a 128x128x16 bitmap 11.23.34 # e.g. a backdrop 11.27.05 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 11.27.05 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 11.27.05 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 11.31.21 # "4000 folder/file database limit" 11.31.26 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 11.34.03 # SIL Open Font License is acceptable for upload in rockbox theme site? 11.37.23 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@90-230-142-55-no41.tbcn.telia.com) 11.37.30 # <[Saint]> guestnano2g: seems so. 11.37.49 # <[Saint]> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL#6c6c80bc 11.39.42 # oh thanks for the reply :) have a nice day! 11.42.01 Part guestnano2g 11.48.31 # wodz: actually, 88 KiB would not even be enough for 76x76x16 album art, as pictured on the SanDisk renderings 11.51.04 # https://outpost.fr/viewimg/IDg.jpg 12.06.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.32.23 # is the clip sport new? 12.33.14 # yes 12.33.52 # how are the volume buttons on this one? i thougt the ones on the zip were to small and with bad feedback 12.35.40 Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 12.36.51 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 12.44.28 # wodz: this is pretty bad news if it's the case 12.44.47 # maybe the atj is just a companion chip and not the main one ? 12.48.21 # this thing is just horrible to program, we will never be able to port rockbox to it if that's really it 12.49.19 # wat? no rockbox for the sport? 12.50.12 # <[Saint]> This stage it seems unlikely, indeed. 12.50.14 # pamaury: yeah. Fitst we need confirmation about the hardware 12.50.23 # wodz: yeah we need to wait 12.50.41 # do you guys think there's another chip on the other side of the PCB? 12.50.58 # <[Saint]> Its possible. SUre. 12.51.09 # possible but I'm pessimistic 12.51.22 # <[Saint]> Reasonanly unlikely, with button placement and LCD. But /possible/. 12.51.31 # based on this: http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118 12.53.18 # <[Saint]> You kinda have to wonder why. 12.53.21 # I will ask the guy to disassemble it more 12.53.38 # well... i will cancel my order right away and wait :) 12.54.17 # <[Saint]> I really thought there was a chance this would be an imx target. 12.54.23 # <[Saint]> Sad. 12.55.05 # why the didn't use atj213x, then my work on the platform would get the spin :P 12.55.11 # *they 12.55.25 # <[Saint]> Inconsiderate bastards. 12.55.27 # its like they just dont know how homebrew fires up the sales 12.55.28 # <[Saint]> ;) 12.55.37 # or they dont care 12.55.42 # I still don't understand how you can sell something like an ATJ2127 in 2014, it's just so wrong 12.56.00 # <[Saint]> rela: I suspect they don't care. 12.56.07 # pamaury: probably they found a stack of those in the basement somewhere 12.56.28 # <[Saint]> the amount of people buying this specifically for Rockbox, even if it was compatible, is *tiny*. 12.56.39 # <[Saint]> So tiny they needn't give a shit. 12.56.44 # possible, yes 12.56.58 # pamaury: you can if its gonna be dirty cheap 12.57.01 # "It is a low-cost, low-power, high-efficiency digital multimedia chip" ← I guess that's why? 12.57.23 # <[Saint]> There's many other non-suck contenders in that class. 12.57.32 # <[Saint]> Many. 12.58.19 # the win is unclear to me: you have such a small amount of memory you either have to rewrite everything specifically for it OR to swap all the time, which is extremely power hungry 12.58.34 # SNR specs aren't very impressive 12.59.03 # the clip zip / + always had great audio quality. it sounds like this one will lack this great sound 12.59.38 # <[Saint]> I think the 4K file/folder limit is hilarious. 12.59.45 # <[Saint]> That's an immediate turnoff. 13.00.10 # <[Saint]> Joe Average won't care, though. 13.00.38 # saint: just merge your files to one big audio stream 13.00.43 # problem solved 13.01.07 # fast forwarding to the song you like can be tricky, but hey, thats what we did with audio tapes too 13.03.50 # ew 13.05.21 # 4000 four minutes long songs at 128 kbps is about 15.3 GB 13.05.52 # which happens to be the largest storage model which will come out later 13.05.58 # (16 GB) 13.07.02 # the MSRP is quite high for such a limited DAP 13.11.21 Join ikeboy [0] (~ikeboy@ool-435622d3.dyn.optonline.net) 13.15.02 # unfortunately i am not happy with the volume rocker on the clip zip 13.15.24 # its too small, not much feedback from the buttons 13.15.35 # almost impossible to use with gloves 13.17.35 # I'd be very surprised if something of clip's size be comfortable to use with gloves. 13.23.20 # I guess they figured that the only remaining market for DAPs is gym / workout stuff 13.23.54 # and I wonder if they misinterpreted the failure of the Fuze+ as "it was too big" 13.24.05 # pamaury: I create symbols lookup table with something like this http://pastie.org/8738917. So in source .c file you add EXPORT_SYMBOL(function_name); and the entry automagicaly is created. Now what to do with functions implemented in separate .S files? 13.25.04 # hmm, maybe add ASM_EXPORT_SYMBOL equivalent 13.29.42 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13.30.02 # to the same in assembly 13.30.08 # with ".section" 13.31.32 # or maybe you can detect the file type, I have all assembly files are compiled with some special define 13.31.37 # *I think all 13.32.25 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 13.32.31 # like __ASSEMBLER__ 13.33.08 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 13.33.09 # that's very strange: my interrupt nested code causes the stack to goes unaligned (not even on word), I can't see why 13.33.58 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) 13.40.27 Quit ikeboy (Quit: Leaving) 13.40.38 # what was the switch to only preprocess the file -E ? 13.47.19 # pamaury: this almost work http://pastie.org/8738959 except that preprocessor doesn't emit newlines and assembler barfs 13.50.17 # yeah -E or -M I don't recall 13.50.54 # hum, I don't know how to put newlines 13.54.09 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 13.55.44 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@pD9EE91D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 13.59.27 # wow, that is really bad news about the clip sport :( 14.00.59 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@cl-1037.haa-01.nl.sixxs.net) 14.01.00 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 14.01.00 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 14.04.13 # yeah, I guess that means no port 14.04.43 # that explains the shitty firmware sandisk came up with 14.05.16 # they don't learn from mistakes 14.05.59 # on the sandisk forum people are already stating that "rockbox could make this a good player" ^^ 14.06.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.07.08 # bummer. a clip zip with bigger and better screen and better battery life are exactly what I want 14.27.48 # I guess now it's "rockbox could have made this a good player" ;) 14.28.15 # apparently it couldn't. 14.28.53 # I guess sandisk was just being too cheap 14.30.46 # or maybe wodz is incredibly motivated to do the port ? 14.31.19 # would it be even possible to make it run reasonably well? 14.35.37 # if the soc is what we think it is, I think not 14.36.42 # no point then 14.37.44 # the problem is the lack of memory and the weird memory architecture 14.38.24 # is it possible to use the flash as additional memory? 14.39.47 # yes but that's 1) slow 2) difficult to program with so less memory 3) bad for the flash life 14.39.57 # I see 14.42.08 # and if I read correctly, it uses a hardware audio decoder ?! 14.42.39 # I think so 14.47.05 # they went full cheapo 14.47.38 # because they were targeting this thing to a very specific audience. which is not going to work. people are already complaining 14.48.21 # or maybe the thing has an even weirder DSP like other ATJ 14.48.38 # it does say atj2127 14.49.16 # in the SoC, many atj have mips core + dsp 14.49.27 # ok 14.53.27 # from a glorious Austrian SoC to some random Chinese one? i bet polka won't sound good on the zip sport 14.55.17 # I guess they traded in quality for battery life.. 14.55.33 # ATJ is not exactly a random chinese one, it's has been here for some time 14.56.18 Join cramler [0] (~mii@91.141.2.21.wireless.dyn.drei.com) 15.02.49 # wodz: did you solve the problem with assembly macro ? 15.05.46 # wodz: otherwise, you can define a gas macro and call it 15.17.30 # Greetings! I thought I might blarb in here, since the forums seem to go on and off right now. I recently got a "zen x-fi3" and thought I might just get my hands on the keymaps, but I am experiencing problems building rockbox correctly it seems. I have no problems building my own bootloader (v1.00.25), and building (unaltered) rockbox gives no errors, but starting it up on the Zen gives a "No .rockbox directory" and "Installation incomplete 15.17.31 # ". Tried on two machines, one with gcc 4.4.4, the other with 4.6.3. Are those known to be problematic? Any ideas? 15.19.02 # I also tried Amaury Poulys bootloader with same results, but his rockbox build works for me... 15.19.48 # cramler: so you correctly flashed the bootloader and it runs rockbox but then you get a "no .rockbox" message in a splash message ? 15.20.06 # pamary: Yes 15.20.29 # strange indeed, give me 10 minutes and I'll check on mine 15.21.39 # As I said, using your build works fine, but mine wont do. 15.21.56 # oh I see 15.22.12 # by my build you mean the daily builds ? 15.22.21 # yes 15.23.56 # It compiles my custom bootloader correctly, but the actual rockbox builds that I compile dont work. 15.24.10 # interesting, are you using our cross compiler or a custom one ? 15.24.36 # I exactly followed your tutorial. 15.25.12 # Same Problem on two different host computers. 15.25.53 # Running Ubuntu 12.04, otherwise vanilla. 15.27.50 # Sorry, if confusing... regular updates (12.04.3), but no custom software, aside of the toolchain. 15.28.01 Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123) 15.29.52 # cramler: have you checked the file system for errors ? 15.30.31 # Yes. 15.30.49 # I'm doing a custom build, let's see 15.36.32 # cramler: I'm sorry, lunch time, I'll be back in 15 minutes to try 15.36.57 # thank you 15.54.56 # ok, so my custom build works here. Did you correctly create a zip at the end of the build and unzip it at the root of the device 15.57.19 # yes 16.02.19 # hum 16.03.40 # that must be a build problem but I don't see why. Can you run this in a console: "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -v" ? 16.05.18 # Output as follows: 16.05.20 # Using built-in specs. 16.05.22 # Target: arm-elf-eabi 16.05.24 # Configured with: ../gcc-4.4.4/configure --target=arm-elf-eabi --prefix=/usr/local --enable-languages=c --disable-libssp --disable-docs MAKEINFO=missing 16.05.26 # Thread model: single 16.05.28 # gcc version 4.4.4 (GCC) 16.06.10 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 16.06.25 # weird 16.07.01 # Since my bootloader is built correctly (functional with your builds), I am a bit lost... 16.07.25 # yeah, since you build the bootloader yourself, that's quite a surprise 16.07.31 # pamaury: at least we see a JTAG interface on the clip sport 16.08.04 # cramler: did you use any advanced option when compiling the main build ? 16.09.55 # No. Creating rockbox with option 94 for x-fi3, then (N)ormal. 16.09.58 # Tried both "make -j" and just "make"... 16.10.35 # have you tried to remove the .rockbox directory entirely and put it back again ? 16.11.01 # Yes. 16.12.02 # I tried any combination I could think of, using both your/mine bootloader and builds. 16.13.49 # and so whatever you use, your main binary fails but not mine 16.14.04 # yes 16.18.05 # pamaury: gas macro works as intended 16.18.33 # cramler: can you try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjrxjkd7fh6ynqi/rockbox_zenxfi3.zip 16.19.13 # wodz: great to hear that 16.20.27 # its just slightly inconsistent as in C you need to call EXPORT_SYMBOL(name) and in .S you need to call EXPORT_SYMBOL name. I think we have to live with that 16.20.56 # wodz: you can have a C macro whichs the gas macro 16.21.06 # *which calls 16.21.16 # ha, apparently 16.22.50 # yup, that works :-) 16.23.26 # pamaury: The one you uploaded just now also works like a charm. 16.24.13 # did you use our rockboxdev.sh script to build the cross compiler ? 16.24.22 # yes 16.24.25 Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 16.24.40 # Now what left is to write little program to patch symtab hashtable in elf. Should be easy. 16.26.55 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 16.27.40 # cramler: is your copy of the git repo up to date ? which is your HEAD revision ? 16.31.38 # I am a bit new to git, how can I check that? I cloned it two days ago. 16.31.40 Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16.33.03 # cramler: "git log | head" 16.33.09 # assuming you didn't modify the source 16.34.19 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 16.34.43 # Thank you! Output as follows: 16.34.47 # commit 101d10ff6c6ee6992504700452901fd779cbb26e 16.34.49 # Author: Marcin Bukat 16.34.51 # Date: Fri Feb 14 08:37:01 2014 +0100 16.34.55 # atj213x: rework crt0.S in test code 16.34.57 # 16.34.59 # Rework init code so relocation is safe for binaries linked 16.35.01 # into cached unmapped KSEG0 region. 16.35.03 # 16.35.05 # Change-Id: I705ee3f0334f8998237f249a2c3059d6dbe78a43 16.36.05 # ATJ stuff again :P 16.36.11 # lol 16.36.14 # that's a sign ;) 16.36.44 # cramler: I'm confused, I have no idea of why it's failing 16.36.57 # did you try to run "make clean" and restart a full build also ? 16.38.28 # Yes, as I retried it on another machine: No change :/ 16.38.30 Join saratoga_ [0] (4160ac54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.96.172.84) 16.38.35 Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16.38.47 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 16.39.09 # given that the sport can do album art and vorbis it probably has embedded dram on the package 16.39.55 # like the original clip where Sandisk used a chip with 320kb of ram and then customized it with on package dram 16.40.10 # interesting 16.41.05 # but there's no way you can decode vorbis with less than about 300kb of ram for the decoder alone, not counting the os and various buffers 16.42.21 # saratoga_: yeah, maybe the package markings is just "wrong", ie they got a custom chip 16.42.30 # bertrik says there are JTAG pins, that could be useful to check 16.43.07 # cramler: I have to go, but I'll be back tonight. In the mean time, I suggest you try variations of the build, like Advanced (A) and enable things like Log (L) and maybe Debug (D), see if that changes things 16.43.26 # In last resort, upload your build so I can have a look at it 16.44.23 # pamaury: I will do that. Thank you so far! 16.44.24 # I think ATJ chips have a recovery mode, someone should try to reach it 16.44.50 # Sandisk doesn't seem to want to be clever about software optimization either so my guess is they use the same 8 MB the zip had 16.45.56 # the chip looks awfully small though, can you fit 8MB of ram in it ? 16.46.01 # how would that recovery mode be reached? 16.46.09 # someone ought to record something on our wiki about this 16.50.57 Quit alucryd (Quit: Alucryd out.) 16.51.00 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 16.54.37 # the sil screening on the PCB says it was outsourced to these guyshttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_Digital 16.57.35 # copper: i dont mean winter gloves, more like thin mountainbiking-gloves 16.57.56 # atj recovery mode can be reached by shorting nand datalines during boot 16.58.59 # so not something we could ask a random user to do 17.03.41 Join kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) 17.08.17 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.13.21 Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@dou59-1-82-238-54-125.fbx.proxad.net) 17.13.21 Quit alucryd (Changing host) 17.13.21 Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@archlinux/trusteduser/alucryd) 17.17.42 Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17.23.33 Quit alucryd (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17.25.30 Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@dou59-1-82-238-54-125.fbx.proxad.net) 17.25.34 Quit alucryd (Changing host) 17.25.34 Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@archlinux/trusteduser/alucryd) 17.33.24 # no chip on the other side of the Clip Sport :( 17.33.29 # http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48014.msg227064/topicseen.html#msg227064 17.34.45 # and a 220mAh battery 17.35.34 # pretty good to get 25 hours out of that 17.36.02 # that SoC must be rather efficient 17.40.33 # I get 25,5hrs on Samsung YP-U7 with color screen and a 120mAh battery :) 17.40.46 # impressive 17.46.27 # what's the minimum amount of memory needed for Rockbox? 17.49.28 # 2M 17.49.39 # well thats on arm 17.49.48 Join tertu3 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 17.49.48 Nick tertu3 is now known as tertu (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 17.50.12 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17.55.20 # wodz: do we talk about 88KB for Clip Sport vs 2MB for ARM or am I wrong? 17.57.50 # you asked how much ram is needed for rockbox. 2MB is the bare minimum. Old archoses have this BUT the decoding is in hw. AFAIK there are some arm targets also that limited but decoding in software. 17.58.12 # yes sure I understood tat 17.58.14 # that 17.58.27 # but I was asking if 88KB for Clip Sport is the RAM or something else? 18.02.02 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 18.02.16 Join [7] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 18.03.52 Join mc2739_ [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 18.03.56 Join jmspeex_ [0] (jm@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org) 18.03.58 Quit mc2739 (Disconnected by services) 18.04.03 Join markun_ [0] (~markun@rockbox/developer/markun) 18.06.13 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.08.13 Quit wodz (*.net *.split) 18.08.14 Quit prof_wolfff (*.net *.split) 18.08.14 Quit markun (*.net *.split) 18.08.14 Quit jmspeex (*.net *.split) 18.08.15 Quit tchan (*.net *.split) 18.12.33 Join saratoga [0] (123e11e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.62.17.224) 18.13.30 # its probably SRAM 18.13.40 # like the 320KB on AMS 18.13.41 # * whiskers75 hugs saratoga 18.14.16 # i don't think it was possible to put on die (just on package) DRAM in the era when the fabs for these chips were made 18.15.05 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@213.37.219.11.dyn.user.ono.com) 18.15.21 # haha the mips people are actually excited about this chip: https://twitter.com/MIPSGuru/status/423555386499948544 18.15.23 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-75-151-160.dynamic.chello.pl) 18.15.27 # "look, someone cares about us still" 18.16.20 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 18.18.30 Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18.18.32 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18.20.32 Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@dslb-088-066-177-149.pools.arcor-ip.net) 18.33.21 # saratoga: mips by volume is still impressive. It is doing much better then say power architecture. It is just that arm is doing better :-) 18.48.26 Nick jmspeex_ is now known as jmspeex (jm@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org) 18.51.03 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18.54.55 # better than power is like being better than coldfire :) 18.55.02 # not much of an achievement 19.41.19 Quit mc2739_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19.41.23 # http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118 has 88Kb as a ROM number, not the RAM number... or am I misreading? 19.43.09 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 19.46.15 # On-chip RAM0~RAM5 (RAM0:8KB, RAM1~RAM5:16KB) is mapped to MCU program memory space, On-chip Multi-Use RAM1(20.25KB), RAM2(4KB), RAM3(6.75KB) and PCM RAM(8KB) that can be switched to be MCU data memory space or Audio codec Memory 19.48.42 # this gives 88kB program memory and 39kB as ram 19.49.23 # I can't imagine who came up with such idea. 19.53.50 # how is that even possible 19.53.57 # how could they display album art? 19.54.07 # it must have more RAM somehow, somewhere 19.55.52 Quit akaWolf (Remote host closed the connection) 19.56.52 Join akaWolf [0] (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) 19.57.27 # pamaury: In case you read this 19.57.29 # My weird build can be found here: 19.57.31 # https://www.dropbox.com/s/set573ch8xil6pn/cramler_rockbox.zip 19.57.35 # There is a difference of 10256 bytes between our rockbox.creative files, but I dont know why... 20.06.17 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.18.49 # saratoga: how do you know atj2127 has a dram controller ? 20.19.57 Quit cramler (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20.20.45 Join bertrik_ [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 20.21.05 Join cramler [0] (~mii@77.119.132.249.wireless.dyn.drei.com) 20.21.24 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20.30.58 # cramler: indeed your build fails on my device 20.50.42 Quit ZincAlloy (Read error: No route to host) 20.51.19 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@pD9EE91D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 20.51.30 # pamaury: bump to get something to try on my X-Fi Style when you have some time :D 20.52.30 # lebellium: I'm about to commit some stuff for the X-Fi Style, the port is pretty complete now, with speaker support 20.52.41 # if you are here tonight I can upload files for you to try 20.52.41 # really? That's a good surprise :) 20.52.58 # nice 20.53.02 # will I have to format the device? 20.53.14 # nope 20.53.29 # there isn't the specific filesystem issue on this model? 20.53.47 # no, fortunately 20.53.48 # at the moment you have to manually enable the speaker in the options (ie it's not automatic when you don't have headphones) 20.54.24 # okay 20.54.40 # maybe this isn't super relevant but maybe the archos devices could get "retired" status or something 20.55.18 # so they'd keep being built if they still worked but if they broke they'd get dropped 20.56.06 # tertu: our plan is to declare the 3.13 release to be the last one, create a branch for them, backport a few things maybe 20.56.16 # in the main branch, we will likely drop support for them 20.56.19 # +1 20.56.25 # that seems reasonable 20.56.28 # is rockbox getting anywhere? 20.56.35 # it seems pretty dead 20.56.36 # what do you mean 20.56.40 # it's moving 20.56.51 # it runs on devices that still get built 20.56.58 # there hasn't been much activity 20.57.19 # that doesn't mean it's dead 20.57.30 # see how many new targets we have thanks to pamaury :) 20.57.35 # to some extent 20.57.38 # good point ;P 20.57.55 # pamaury: you mean 3.14, right? 20.58.00 # for sure there are fewer active developers but pamaury is doing the job for 10 people lol 20.58.06 # we are less and less active, that is true but mostly because there are less and less (interesting) targets to port to 20.58.18 # this is sort of a stupid question but 20.58.20 # DAPs are dying 20.58.27 # i'm sad about that 20.58.32 # :( 20.58.33 # DAPs are nice 20.58.54 # I use my sansa less now because of spotify, rdio, google, etc 20.58.59 # and i don't think enough people realize how nice they are 20.58.59 # cramler: it appears you build env might just work and the revision you chose is buggy :-/ 21.00.06 # cramler: I will commit some stuff pretty soon, you can retry after that 21.00.10 # tertu: i know :( 21.03.56 # pamaury: Probably you're right... 21.03.59 # I will nonetheless try on debian with higher gcc version (downloading debian right now, building gcc on ubuntu would take some hours...) 21.04.01 # Thank you for your time :) 21.06.25 # cramler: to be clear we support *only* the version of toolchain provided by rockboxdev.sh script 21.06.41 # wodz: he uses the right version, everything is fine 21.07.05 # that's why I was very confused, so I tried the same build with the same version and it fails too so I think that revision is just buggy 21.07.14 # pamaury: I know, but now he says he want try newer version of gcc which is asking for troubles 21.08.41 # :/ 21.09.32 # wodz: Understood that, thank you. 21.09.54 # ah yeah indeed, especially since some recent gcc are known to fail 21.10.37 # cramler: since you are the X-Fi3 user and you probably used the OF, do you know if it can detect when the headphones are unplugged ? 21.13.00 # the page says external memory support, although maybe they mean FLASH 21.14.48 # ? 21.14.51 # saratoga: they list nand, mmc and spi nor flash 21.15.54 # * whiskers75 boots rockbox 21.16.03 # Thank you rockbox devs. <3 21.16.08 Quit bertrik_ (Remote host closed the connection) 21.21.58 Join ikeboy [0] (~ikeboy@ool-435622d3.dyn.optonline.net) 21.22.27 # pamaury: It can. 21.22.30 # When playback is started with speakers enabled, and headphones are plugged in, it will switch to the headphones. 21.22.32 # When the headphones are unplugged, it will switch to the speaker again, but pause playback. 21.23.30 # hum ok, strangely I don't find any GPIO to detect this, I need to investigate this 21.24.04 # THE GPIO ADVENTURES 21.24.50 Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.) 21.32.01 # How can I edit an existing plugin on the fuze+ to always boost CPU? 21.32.41 # It's the textviewer, it's about 6 times as fast loading which would really help for bookmarks near the end of long books 21.33.47 # ikeboy: in theory just add trigger_cpu_boost() and cancel_cpu_boost() somewhere 21.34.27 # Would you be okay with boosting by default in the textviewer? 21.37.24 # boosting consumes a lot of power so probably not, clever boosting would be much better 21.37.44 # headphone detect is often done by the dac, which then interrupts or at least raises a flag when state changes 21.38.45 # How about boosting right before seeking to a bookmark and unboosting after? 21.39.20 # you should boost when its needed and unboost as soon as possible 21.39.28 # if it improves performance in plugins its likely ok 21.40.01 # saratoga: on most imx devices it's done a GPIO, the dac has some "short detect" method which could be used but it didn't work on all daps I tried, maybe that's how it work on the X-Fi3 21.40.11 # ah ok 22.03.33 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 22.06.18 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.11.55 # Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision cefaa46, 250 builds, 33 clients. 22.15.09 # Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 195 seconds. 22.16.06 # gevaerts: do I have to do something for the X-Fi Style to be built ? I add it to the buildserver/builds file in www/ but it wasn't built in the last round 22.17.36 # pamaury: no, but looking at your change, you didn't give those three builds unique identifiers... 22.17.44 # i.e. the third field 22.18.01 # I don't know what the effects of that will be 22.18.42 # oh damn, I knew I forgot something but couldn't remember what 22.19.29 # pamaury: can you test g#758 for me? 22.19.31 # 3Gerrit review #758 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/758 : 3Boost CPU before loading operations in textviewer by Avi Eisenberg 22.19.43 # gevaerts: hum wait, my identifiers are unique I think 22.20.09 # "cat builds |cut -f 3 -d :|sort|uniq -c|sort -n" says not 22.20.12 # gevaerts: ah no you're right 22.21.01 # fixed, I would have expected it to build at least one of them 22.21.24 # lol 22.21.26 # Maybe it did 22.21.31 # :p 22.21.31 # * gevaerts also laughs 22.21.36 # Not sure why though 22.21.52 # * whiskers75 has had many a trouble with building Rockbox. 22.22.02 # Especially on Travis CI :p 22.22.26 # You mean you've hit many stupid travis ci limitations? 22.22.32 # Not really our fault... 22.22.58 # I know 22.23.04 # I'm not blaming you. 22.23.12 # I remember... 22.23.21 # Build #215 22.23.27 # and it was still broken 22.26.32 # saratoga: does "headphone common short" and "l/r short" detect rings a bell ? 22.28.42 # do the l/r short when you plug in a pair of headphones? 22.30.52 # I don't know, I'm trying to understand what the DAC provides, the doc says it can detect "common mode" short and "l/r short". I tried with common and got nothing, I'm going to try with l/r 22.31.05 # no i guess they would not 22.31.12 # that sounds like some kind of fault detect maybe? 22.31.55 # yeah 22.32.27 # then I wonder how the OF detects the HP 22.32.59 # the Haut Parleur? :D 22.33.39 # Head Phones ;p 22.34.52 # maybe it relies on the bluetooth chip to check that 22.36.04 # Anyone want to test g#758? 22.36.05 # 3Gerrit review #758 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/758 : 3Boost CPU before loading operations in textviewer by Avi Eisenberg 22.37.05 # ikeboy: I'm quite busy but I'll try to test it tomorrow 22.37.25 # Thanks 22.39.10 # that should be safe i think 22.39.21 # i assume boost just does nothing on application builds? 22.39.37 # Why do text files need a CPU boost? Oo 22.40.16 # When you load a bookmark it takes about 6 times faster with a boost than without on fuze+ 22.40.36 # oh 22.40.55 # It was annoying me that to continue reading I'd have to wait a minute to load 22.40.59 # I wouldn't have thought that is so demanding 22.41.23 # 1 min vs 10 seconds is significant 22.41.31 # indeed 22.42.47 # hum maybe it relies on the video dac instead 22.46.03 # indeed the video dac jack detect seems to work 22.48.59 # however I'm not sure the OF uses this 22.50.47 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 22.52.28 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22.54.02 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22.54.13 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g224238201.adsl.alicedsl.de) 22.57.12 # pamaury: Can I help somehow? 22.59.20 # saratoga: haha, apparently they do it using the adc 22.59.47 # they wired a channel to measure which is high when inserted and low when it's not 22.59.59 # cramler: I committed a few things, you can retry a build 23.01.47 # pamaury: this is not that uncommon idea 23.04.06 # but why a LRADC ? can't you just wire something a GPIO ? that's simpler no ? 23.07.44 # Maybe they mean to make it complicated? Nintendo uses to release new wii firmware regularly just to keep homebrew out. 23.11.46 Quit ikeboy (Quit: Leaving) 23.14.59 Quit cramler (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23.15.53 # pamaury: I'll go to bed now. I'll try it on the X-Fi Style tomorrow if you had time to write the install instructions by then 23.17.34 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 23.19.48 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140213172947]) 23.24.55 Quit tertu (Disconnected by services) 23.24.55 Join ter2 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 23.40.45 Quit tweek_ (Read error: Operation timed out) 23.45.43 Quit ender` (Quit: I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. -- Noel Coward) 23.54.47 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)