--- Log for 23.04.114  Server: hitchcock.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 14 days and 12 hours ago

00.01.52 Quit    amayer (Quit: Leaving)
00.07.38 Quit    lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0/20140417185217])
00.43.58 Join    Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-241-113.mcn.bellsouth.net)
00.52.14 Quit    bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
00.52.51 Join    RiD [0] (~RiD@188.250.69.119)
01.03.07 Quit    RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
01.03.48 Join    us`0gb [0] (~0gb.us@c-50-137-60-25.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01.08.59 Quit    Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
01.11.23 Join    jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-43-2-35.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
01.11.23 Quit    jhMikeS (Changing host)
01.11.23 Join    jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01.15.28 Quit    teythoon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01.27.30 Join    Klarion [0] (~lao@optima175.o2.carnet.hr)
01.29.38 #       <Klarion> Can someone help me? I want to be able to listen to sounds like in SineGen(which generates sounds on different frequencies) on my Rockbox so I can equalize my headphones properly. How do I get these sounds? Is this even possible? Can I download/generate them somehow. It can be for example 1k, 2k, 3k... up to 20k. 
01.30.12 Quit    kuldeepdhaka (Quit: Leaving)
01.35.21 Quit    ender` (Quit:  There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats.	-- David Gemmel, The King Beyond the Gate)
01.37.30 #       <dfkt_> Klarion, you can't generate tones in rockbox, but you can easily do it in eg. audacity
01.38.17 #       <Klarion> ok, I'm in audacity now, can you pls tell me what do I put in amplitude setting? Default is 0.8. Is that OK?
01.38.43 #       <dfkt_> as long as it doesn't distort anything is fine
01.39.04 #       <Klarion> ok
01.39.22 #       <Klarion> waveform should be sine, right?
01.40.17 #       <dfkt_> maybe best you generate a sine-sweep from 20hz to 20khz, so you get a rough estimate where the peaks and valleys of your phone are
01.40.30 Join    Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d012ed8.pool.mediaWays.net)
01.41.03 #       <Klarion> that's what I'm planning to do. I have to generate frequencies one-by-one. 50hz, 500hz, 1k etc. ?
01.41.52 #       <dfkt_> hmm, i guess audacity can't generate sweeps
01.42.09 #       <dfkt_> just google for sine sweep, and you should get some results
01.42.18 #       <dfkt_> it's one test tone that spans the whole audible spectrum
01.42.57 #       <Klarion> I think I will do it like this first because I already practiced it on SineGen app. on my PC
01.43.16 #       <Klarion> can you just tell me this: I have an option here in audacity when I want to generate a tone, it says, pick one: sine, square, sawtooth? Which do I pick?
01.43.36 #       <dfkt_> sine. it's just one frequency at once, with no overtones
01.43.41 #       <Klarion> ok
01.44.06 #       <dfkt_> but personally, i just listen to music in fb2k with a vst eq plugin, and tweak my phones to my liking there
01.44.17 #       <dfkt_> then i take these settings and use them im rockbox
01.44.28 #       <dfkt_> much easier than trial & error with the rockbox eq itself
01.44.57 #       <Klarion> yeah, but I figured that my PC might have a different frequency graph then my MP3 player
01.44.59 #       <dfkt_> and test tones never gave me really enjoyable results
01.45.17 #       <Klarion> if you understand what I mean...
01.46.00 #       <Klarion> so some tones might be different on PC than on player
01.46.01 #       <dfkt_> the frequency response of average pc sound cards and of most mp3 players should be fairly flat with most phones, there shouldn't be any huge differences in frequency response
01.47.16 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01.47.32 #       <dfkt_> and that's basically the only thing that matters for EQing
01.47.40 #       <Klarion> my sound card has totally rolled off bass, and my player is very flat 
01.48.53 #       <Klarion> and I have dual BA headphones which again are a bit problematic on some devices
01.49.45 #       <dfkt_> yeah, that can be an issue on crappy outputs
01.49.59 #       <dfkt_> what rockboxed player are you using?
01.50.05 #       <Klarion> fuze v2
01.50.34 #       <dfkt_> good, that one's flat with any impedance and crossover
01.50.54 #       <Klarion> yeah, the measurements are same as clip+
01.52.44 #       <dfkt_> here's a sine sweep i made - http://www10.zippyshare.com/v/17786075/file.html
01.53.11 #       <dfkt_> might be a good place to start
01.53.15 #       <Klarion> oh, thanks, where did you make it?
01.53.21 #       <dfkt_> wavelab
01.53.47 #       <Klarion> do my tones also have to be in .wav or can they be in any lossless format?
01.53.58 Join    cmhobbs_ [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net)
01.54.05 #       <dfkt_> can be flac or anything as well
01.54.18 #       <Klarion> ok
02.03.40 Quit    cmhobbs_ (Remote host closed the connection)
02.04.45 Join    cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net)
02.04.46 Quit    cmhobbs (Changing host)
02.04.46 Join    cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs)
02.04.46 Join    cmhobbs_ [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net)
02.04.50 Quit    cmhobbs (Client Quit)
02.13.55 Quit    Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02.13.59 Quit    JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02.16.10 Join    JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-17-146.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net)
02.16.10 Quit    JdGordon (Changing host)
02.16.10 Join    JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02.17.32 Join    teythoon [0] (~teythoon@mail.jade-hamburg.de)
02.52.35 Quit    synergst` (Quit: . o { <('.'<) kirby tires of this nonsense. })
02.55.07 Join    Synergist [0] (~synfn@node1.customhost.org.uk)
02.55.08 Quit    Synergist (Changing host)
02.55.08 Join    Synergist [0] (~synfn@unaffiliated/synergist)
02.59.59 Quit    AlexP (Remote host closed the connection)
03.02.18 Quit    JdGordon (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
03.03.35 Join    JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-5-135.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net)
03.03.35 Quit    JdGordon (Changing host)
03.03.35 Join    JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03.05.48 Quit    Synergist (Quit: . o { <('.'<) kirby tires of this nonsense. })
03.07.04 Quit    igitoor (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03.12.19 Quit    dunpeal (Quit: leaving)
03.13.11 Quit    shamus (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03.19.06 Join    Synergist [0] (~synfn@node1.customhost.org.uk)
03.19.10 Quit    Synergist (Changing host)
03.19.10 Join    Synergist [0] (~synfn@unaffiliated/synergist)
03.19.22 Join    shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net)
03.21.03 Join    igitoor [0] (igitur@2a00:d880:3:1::c1ca:a648)
03.30.28 Quit    igitoor (Changing host)
03.30.28 Join    igitoor [0] (igitur@unaffiliated/contempt)
03.47.17 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04.22.24 Join    amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
04.22.24 Quit    amiconn (Disconnected by services)
04.22.27 Nick    amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
04.22.52 Quit    pixelma (Disconnected by services)
04.22.53 Join    pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
04.22.55 Nick    pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
04.34.04 Join    tertu [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199)
04.46.16 #       <[Saint]> That seems odd...
04.46.53 #       <[Saint]> I want to equalize my headphones, blah blah, yadda yadda, what's a sine wave?
04.51.37 #       <nrg> i have the video for you
04.52.07 Join    f[x] [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
04.52.17 #       <nrg> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b0JIFSVDYwY
04.54.00 #       <[Saint]> Many hours of pure pink noise:
04.54.01 #       <[Saint]> http://www.pinkspage.com/us/home
05.10.05 #       <nrg> nice
05.30.30 Join    dexpid1 [0] (~dexpid@cpe-184-59-114-126.cinci.res.rr.com)
05.32.51 Quit    dexpid (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05.40.46 Quit    TheSeven (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05.42.25 Join    TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
05.43.07 #       <Klarion> what's odd?
05.43.21 #       <Klarion> I equalized them, took me only 3 hours
05.43.55 Quit    Strife89 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
05.47.18 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06.11.44 Nick    DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
06.20.46 Quit    Klarion ()
06.56.24 Quit    tertu (Quit: Leaving)
07.03.12 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@avm-guido.avm.de)
07.03.12 Quit    kugel (Changing host)
07.03.12 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
07.47.21 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07.51.43 Quit    f[x] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
08.06.31 Join    ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
08.18.08 Nick    SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
08.24.22 Quit    kugel (Quit: Lost terminal)
08.25.21 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@avm-guido.avm.de)
08.25.21 Quit    kugel (Changing host)
08.25.21 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
08.46.48 Quit    megal0maniac_afk (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08.54.14 Join    Zagor [0] (~bjst@2a01:2b0:3041:3018:2677:3ff:fea3:3ef4)
08.54.15 Quit    Zagor (Changing host)
08.54.15 Join    Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08.54.54 Join    megal0maniac_afk [0] (~megal0man@unaffiliated/megal0maniac)
09.11.15 Join    f[x] [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
09.28.08 Join    ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
09.30.43 Quit    f[x] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
09.33.45 Join    NMJerry [0] (~AndChat27@97-123-195-35.albq.qwest.net)
09.34.56 #       <NMJerry> does ne1 know if there will ever be a rockbox port for the zoon
09.35.53 Part    NMJerry
09.41.12 Join    mortalis [0] (~kvirc@213.33.220.118)
09.47.22 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09.49.50 #       <[Saint]> Bah. What type of user is that. Can't even stay around for a minute to be told no or be mocked about typos.
10.13.55 Quit    [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
10.14.54 Join    [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
10.27.14 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: ping
10.36.16 Join    pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
10.45.57 #       <copper> A head-fier talking about the USB ID build for the Classic: "Works great but when i connect to my car stereo the ipod enters 'Panic Mode' and im forced to reboot it."
10.58.08 Join    wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
11.05.07 Join    JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-98-237.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net)
11.05.10 Quit    JdGordon_ (Changing host)
11.05.10 Join    JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
11.06.24 Quit    JdGordon (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
11.19.06 #       <[Saint]> Easy response.
11.20.02 #       <[Saint]> "you're using an unofficial build, for an unstable device"
11.20.36 #       <copper> well, I directed him to the normal build hosted on rockbox.org
11.27.45 #       <copper> I've updated my post to link to the official build permanently
11.42.28 #       <wodz> Do I understand correctly that ipod doesn't crash when using ipod's VID:PID ?
11.42.53 #       <[Saint]> That was the assumption I made.
11.43.31 #       <copper> that's what I asked, I'm waiting for an answer
11.43.31 #       <wodz> pretty interesting
11.44.02 #       <copper> let's not assume that just yet
11.44.11 #       <wodz> It is not that unexpected that ipod and generic MSC device are treated differently by head unit
11.44.36 #       <wodz> which doesn't mean rb as MSC should crash
11.44.54 #       <[Saint]> right.
11.47.26 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11.48.12 #       <wodz> easy, ask the guy to come to Warsaw during DevCon by car so pamaury will have oportunity to hook usb analyser between the head and ipod :-)
11.49.00 #       <jhMikeS> kugel: yessir?
11.52.40 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: did you plan to upstream the rwlock stuff?
11.53.19 #       <jhMikeS> I could any time I suppose.
11.53.36 #       <jhMikeS> It's not been actually run yet or anything.
11.53.56 #       <jhMikeS> reworking filesystem code == need that anyway
11.55.00 #       <jhMikeS> fucking dircache has its tentacles in everything in unsavory ways
11.56.24 Join    maruk1 [0] (~papier@titanium.v6.sdv.fr)
11.57.03 #       <kugel> I'm more concerned with the playlist code
11.58.07 #       <kugel> we talked about extras of your locks that don't map trivially to pthread
11.58.19 #       <kugel> did that include rdlock->wrlock promotion?
11.58.44 #       <jhMikeS> I didn't see any great issue with writer recurse since only one writer can recurse anyway
11.58.46 #       <kugel> I think you cannot do that atomically
11.58.51 #       <kugel> (with pthreads)
11.59.44 #       <jhMikeS> rdlock->wrlock promotion isn't done with what I did either, it's almost nonsense
12.00.10 #       <kugel> godo
12.00.27 #       <kugel> well, you do it the other way around so I figured I better ask
12.00.49 #       <jhMikeS> there is a way to do it but basically the app has to by wrapping the read exit and write acquire in a mutex
12.02.09 #       <jhMikeS> well, heck I'll just put a patch up with a simpler version that should work with current trunk
12.05.11 #       <kugel> cool
12.05.12 #       <jhMikeS> http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/kernel-mrsw-lock.patch
12.05.54 #       <kugel> the rd->wr promotion doesn't simply work with a mutex, any waiting writer has to hold that mutex
12.06.55 #       <kugel> (obviously this deadlocks)
12.07.14 Join    kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka)
12.07.37 #       <jhMikeS> well it goes like: lock mtx->release rd->acquire wr->unlock mtx then you're in the writer lock
12.08.18 #       <kugel> yes, but what there are other writers waiting?
12.09.32 #       <kugel> if they don't hold mtx then the operation isnt atomic. if they hold the mtx it'll deadlock
12.09.40 #       <jhMikeS> why?
12.09.53 #       <jhMikeS> the mutex is only around the switchover code
12.10.40 #       <kugel> you need to prevent other writers from getting the wrlock between the rd->wr promotion
12.11.13 #       <kugel> how do you do that? if they hold the mutex as you suggest then the system deadlocks once the reader tries to lock it
12.11.32 #       <jhMikeS> others wanting write have to get mtx, get write acces and realease the mtx
12.11.48 #       <jhMikeS> reader doesn't lock it
12.12.00 #       <kugel> reader locks it before "release rd"
12.12.13 #       <jhMikeS> yep
12.13.35 #       <kugel> if there is another writer (who waits for all readers to release), who has the mutex, it'll lock up because the reader will block on the wanna-be-writer to release the mutex and the wanna-be-writer blocks on the reader to release the rdlock
12.16.19 #       <jhMikeS> only the reader that wants to write would block there
12.16.37 #       <jhMikeS> anyone wanting writer would also wait for the mtx
12.17.12 #       <kugel> the reader that wants to write would block?
12.18.20 #       <kugel> how's that atomic then?
12.19.00 #       <kugel> plus, "wanting writer would also wait for the mtx" == deadlock when the reader attempts to lock the same mutex
12.20.37 #       <jhMikeS> one secc...
12.23.04 #       <jhMikeS> http://pastebin.com/WT2fZyju
12.23.24 Join    mo [0] (597bf933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.123.249.51)
12.23.32 Nick    mo is now known as mo_ (597bf933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.123.249.51)
12.23.37 Nick    mo_ is now known as moo_ (597bf933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.123.249.51)
12.24.48 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: right, I understand that part. I think you're missing the point. how does aquiring the wrlock look like (say, in another function)?
12.24.49 #       <jhMikeS> there won't be a writer gap. readers aren't affected because they pass through anyway
12.25.38 #       <kugel> (remember that in pthreads a waiting writer can race into the rd->wr transition)
12.28.15 #       <jhMikeS> where do they race? what conditions are ok for the application in question?
12.29.49 #       <kugel> thr1:release rd; thr2:aquire wr; thr1:aquire wr [block]
12.30.57 #       <jhMikeS> you mean one that acquires the wr from the beginning?
12.32.34 #       <kugel> thr2 blocks on thr1 at first yes
12.32.41 Join    einhirn [0] (~Miranda@2001:638:605:4:9cfb:eb30:fe81:f74e)
12.32.46 #       <kugel> (but that isnt even necessary)
12.34.13 #       <jhMikeS> http://pastebin.com/56w5dz07
12.35.06 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: yes. don't you see the deadlock?
12.35.10 #       <jhMikeS> no
12.35.20 Quit    kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
12.35.43 #       <jhMikeS> ....looking hard for it
12.36.22 #       <jhMikeS> A writer needn't get the mutex to release write exclusion, so the next write in the mutex is let go
12.37.10 #       <jhMikeS> oh shit wait
12.37.33 #       <kugel> http://pastebin.com/9w6V2AkH
12.39.45 Quit    kugel (Quit: leaving)
12.40.18 #       <jhMikeS> yep...that one got by me for a little bit
12.40.53 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@avm-guido.avm.de)
12.40.53 Quit    kugel (Changing host)
12.40.53 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
12.42.39 #       <moo_> I have an iPod classic 7th generation, would a rockbox build for the 6th generation work on it? http://forums.appleinsider.com/products/apple-ipod-classic-160gb-black-mc297ll-a-7th-generation
12.42.48 Join    kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka)
12.43.08 #       <jhMikeS> kugel: indeed...reader can't release, now....how to correct the issue?
12.43.08 #       <[Saint]> moo_: yes.
12.43.33 #       <copper> moo_: http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip
12.43.42 #       <moo_> thanks [Saint] copper 
12.44.03 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: dont attempt to do it atomically :)
12.44.28 #       <kugel> that is, don't support rw->wr lock promotion in the api
12.45.25 #       <kugel> that's why I asked if you're planning on that
12.45.31 #       <jhMikeS> I'll try...there must be a way
12.45.38 Quit    copper (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
12.46.32 #       <kugel> jhMikeS: I'm not sure it's even possible. See http://bitflipgames.com/2011/05/20/multithreaded-programming-part-2-5-mrsw-lock-code/
12.47.01 Join    copper [0] (~copper@unaffiliated/copper)
12.47.05 #       <jhMikeS> no, but I would like to correct that issue with the whole thing since I actually need it.
12.47.58 #       <kugel> I suggest keeping it simple and don't do any lock promition
12.48.19 #       <jhMikeS> I had an implementation like that then decided kernel native was better on target
12.48.25 #       <kugel> instead having the client code deal with it explicitely
12.48.47 #       <jhMikeS> that's what I wanted since it's not very common
12.49.05 Quit    DormantBrain (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12.50.54 #       <jhMikeS> I do actually need code with lock promotion though (client-side is fine)...so...this needs some rethinking
12.50.56 Join    DormantBrain [0] (~andy@74.112.200.73)
12.50.57 Nick    DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.200.73)
12.52.13 #       <moo_> is this page broken or is it just me? http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/FeatureComparison
12.52.46 #       <moo_> Foswiki detected an internal error - please check your Foswiki logs and webserver logs for more information.
12.55.15 #       <Zagor> moo_: broken. I'll take a look.
12.55.23 #       <moo_> thanks
13.05.44 #       <[Saint]> I'm not even sure that page would list the Classic.
13.28.19 #       <jhMikeS> kugel: I think i got it
13.30.25 #       <jhMikeS> bah
13.30.32 #       <pamaury> copper: I just received a micro sd extension card, so I should be able to sniff the traffic between rockbox and your microsd, I hope to be able to capture the "bug" on wire
13.31.30 #       <[Saint]> nice.
13.31.32 #       <Zagor> moo_: fixed
13.32.15 #       <[Saint]> r105 - 13 Nov 2011
13.32.16 #       <[Saint]> heh
13.32.37 #       <Zagor> yeah. "This document is historical and mostly out of date!"
13.33.14 #       <copper> pamaury: a micro sd "extension" card?
13.33.16 #       <copper> what's that?
13.33.39 #       <pamaury> copper: this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9419
13.33.43 #       <[Saint]> presumably for his fancy logic analyzer.
13.33.54 #       <copper> ooh, nice
13.34.36 #       <copper> I'll be very interested in what you'll be able to find out
13.35.17 #       <copper> I wanna know if it's just a Rockbox bug or if those cards are indeed not to be trusted
13.35.53 #       <copper> Rockbox bug or incomplete implementation
13.35.58 #       <[Saint]> I have seen similar breakout PCBs that offer uSD RAID.
13.36.06 #       <[Saint]> Now, why you'd want that...who knows.
13.36.07 #       <copper> vs. "the card's firmware is screwy"
13.36.09 #       <[Saint]> But they exist.
13.36.17 #       <moo_> [Saint]: where could I see some docs specifically for the ipod classic? most of the device-related pages don't have it listed
13.36.33 #       <copper> moo_: use the iPod Video manual
13.36.40 #       <copper> http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html
13.36.43 #       <[Saint]> moo_: that's likely due to it being an unstable target.
13.36.44 #       <moo_> ok, thanks
13.37.15 #       <[Saint]> But, copper is right - there's nothing in that manual that will be incorrect.
13.37.19 #       <[Saint]> Only missing features.
13.37.27 #       <moo_> does any of you guys have it running?
13.37.37 #       <[Saint]> No FM, recording, and various other trivial things.
13.37.46 #       <[Saint]> I do. 
13.37.49 #       <[Saint]> copper does.
13.37.52 #       <moo_> I can live without those
13.37.55 #       <moo_> :)
13.38.05 #       * copper does
13.38.55 #       <moo_> is there anything that can go wrong if I try the automated installer?
13.38.56 #       <[Saint]> The caveats are: No specific maintainer anymore, and no official installation method.
13.39.07 #       <copper> there is none
13.39.08 #       <[Saint]> There is no automated installer.
13.39.12 #       <copper> not for emcore anyway
13.39.21 #       <[Saint]> Installation for this target is completely unsupported bu Rockbox.
13.39.24 #       <copper> once emcore is installed, you can use the Rockbox Utility
13.39.26 #       <moo_> ok, I'll just follow the docs
13.39.26 #       <[Saint]> *by
13.39.34 #       <[Saint]> We can update a running install, but that's it.
13.39.38 #       <copper> http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic
13.40.36 #       <copper> moo_: I don't remember for sure, but installing emcore might reformat your iPod's HDD and wipe out all your data on it, so make sure that you have a backup of that data
13.41.03 #       <[Saint]> If it's going to, it will warn you clearly.
13.41.15 #       <moo_> I have it, no worries
13.41.29 #       <[Saint]> ANother thing to note is - no dual boot.
13.41.32 #       <moo_> it will just be annoying if I have to copy it once again...
13.41.41 #       <[Saint]> you can kiss the original firmware and itunes goodbye.
13.41.57 #       <moo_> yes, no problem, I kind of hate it anyway
13.42.00 #       <copper> it's well worth it though
13.42.04 #       <moo_> it's a PITA on Linux
13.42.24 #       <copper> ah, you're running Linux, that will make installing emcore easier
13.42.28 #       <[Saint]> iTunes on Linux - why...dear God why...
13.42.51 #       <[Saint]> Doesn't pretty much evrything use libgpod now?
13.43.22 #       <[Saint]> (which will shortly be irrelevant, but hey)
13.43.24 #       <moo_> I used rhythmbox but it crashes all the time while copying stuff
13.43.30 #       <[Saint]> Ah.
13.44.40 #       <[Saint]> Head over to #freemyipod-support if you hit a snag with emCORE installation.
13.45.04 #       <[Saint]> While not immediately obvious, freemyipod and Rockbox are separate entities.
13.47.29 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13.48.30 #       <moo_> I understand, emcore is just a bootloader
13.49.09 #       <copper> slightly more than that, but as far as Rockbox is concerned, pretty much, yeah
13.50.44 Quit    kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
13.51.39 #       <[Saint]> Its technically an operating system in itself.
13.51.54 #       <[Saint]> Ridiculously powerful for what most users actually need it for.
13.52.01 #       <[Saint]> Hilariously so.
13.55.00 #       <copper> being able to format the HDD from emcore is nice
13.55.13 #       <copper> and if user472259 implements his USB driver, that will be even nicer
13.55.36 #       <copper> er
13.55.40 #       <copper> user890104
13.56.06 #       <copper> not the best nick to autocomplete to :P
13.57.35 #       <user890104> it's not mine, it's TheSeven's
13.57.49 #       <user890104> but I started writing an app that uses it
13.58.10 Quit    ygrek (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
14.03.19 #       <moo_> emcore is installed, now running the rockbox utility
14.05.04 Quit    mc2739 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
14.07.04 Join    mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
14.10.27 #       <moo_> I think I did a mistake by selecting all the themes, it takes a lot of time to download them all :(
14.11.11 #       <moo_> as a suggestion, there should be a way to rate them so people would download the best maintained and feature complete ones
14.11.50 #       <moo_> but having the choice feels awesome :)
14.12.22 #       <[Saint]> A large percentage of those may or may not be hilariously broken.
14.12.26 #       <copper> moo_: ratings are shown on the theme site
14.12.32 #       <copper> http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=ipod6g
14.12.47 #       <moo_> good to know, thanks
14.13.46 #       <copper> but they won't tell you what you want to know (best maintained and feature complete)
14.17.38 #       <jhMikeS> kugel: oh I got the dumb sometimes but it really stupid simple...just forget promoting and put a mutex in the reader section :P
14.18.44 #       <kugel> "forget promoting" sounds reasonable :p
14.20.24 #       <moo_> yay, rockbox is running, thanks guys
14.20.29 #       <jhMikeS> well, it behaves the same as if it got promoted
14.22.06 #       <copper> moo_: glad it went smoothly for you :)
14.22.43 #       <moo_> just had to follow the emcore wiki page, maybe it should be made more clear that's the way to install it on the classic
14.23.56 #       <moo_> I will try to use something like photorec to recover the data I had on it
14.26.02 #       <jhMikeS> kugel: and the whole deal seems rather app dependent
14.27.48 Join    ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
14.35.03 Quit    ygrek (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
14.41.20 #       <moo_> copper: can you tell how does rockbox battery life compare with the apple firmware's?
14.42.11 #       <copper> 25-32 hours of continuous playback depending on the battery's age and codecs used
14.42.40 #       <copper> actually I think codecs are mostly irrelevant on the Classic, wrt battery life
14.44.02 #       <moo_> apple claims it can do up to 36h, but 25-32 is not bad at all 
14.44.06 #       <copper> max I ever got was 32 hours, but lately it's more like 25 hours on my Classic, but I couldn't say if that's because my battery is getting old, or if it's something else
14.44.58 #       <moo_> I think it all depends how much they make use of the spinning disk drive
14.45.36 #       <copper> even with ~440 kbps files I got 32 hours
14.45.48 #       <copper> and with ~210 kbps files I got similar results
14.47.10 #       <copper> if you want to make use of the large storage with high bitrate files, I'd say go for it and don't worry too much about battery life
14.47.27 #       <moo_> I won't :)
14.48.07 #       <moo_> it's actually my wife's device... I installed rockbox without her knowledge, hopefully I won't get killed :)
14.48.38 #       <copper> lol
14.48.51 #       <moo_> the biggest reason was that I hated the sync experience on Linux
14.49.41 #       <moo_> so all the other rockbox features are just a nice bonus
14.52.09 Join    amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com)
15.00.37 Quit    cmhobbs_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
15.10.27 Quit    wodz (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
15.11.21 #       <[Saint]> If she liked the UI- you're probably a dead man.
15.11.50 #       <[Saint]> There's all sorts of ways for users to get themselves into trouble in Rockbox with settings they don't understand.
15.13.56 Join    wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
15.16.00 Quit    wodz (Client Quit)
15.19.35 Join    ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
15.25.01 #       <copper> Someone's not gonna get any tonight…
15.26.10 Quit    kugel (Read error: Operation timed out)
15.27.39 #       <[Saint]> Yeah, I can't imagine this ending well.
15.28.04 #       <[Saint]> "But, its *better*...I swear!"
15.28.47 #       <[Saint]> "Where's my playlists?" <pokerface>
15.34.44 #       <copper> moo_: get your own iPod!
15.35.57 #       <[Saint]> I just got a black 160GB Classic w/ a click of death for $10
15.36.05 #       <[Saint]> Hello old SSD.
15.37.08 #       <[Saint]> I'm watching another auction currently at $28 for a 160GB in silver.
15.37.43 #       <[Saint]> I figure its about time I started snappig some up to stash away for the future.
15.42.48 #       <copper> yeah, I'm always worried Apple will discontinue it
15.43.37 #       <copper> though it's interesting they updated the firmware a year ago
15.44.18 #       <[Saint]> Only to cope with an irrelevant (to us) HW modification, IIUC.
15.44.56 #       <gevaerts> That's even more interesting :)
15.45.12 #       <gevaerts> I mean, they updated the hardware
15.47.33 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15.49.12 #       <copper> uh?
15.49.23 #       <copper> no, it was an option to lift the EU volume cap
15.49.55 #       <gevaerts> "an irrelevant HW modification" implies modifying the hardware, doesn't it?
15.51.17 #       <[Saint]> copper: Oh - I thought you were talking about the weird bunch that won't roll back to prior versions, which IIRC was speculated to be regarding some HW change.
15.53.26 Join    Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-241-113.mcn.bellsouth.net)
16.01.59 #       <moo_> I launched the doom game and rockbox hanged, how can I reboot it?
16.03.23 #       <nrg> long hold power
16.04.09 #       <gevaerts> nrg: on an ipod?
16.04.22 #       <nrg> no
16.04.37 #       <nrg> middle button and top of wheel then
16.04.38 #       <moo_> there's no power button
16.05.00 #       <moo_> thanks, that worked
16.05.08 #       <nrg> awesome :)
16.08.14 #       <moo_> how long does it take to reboot? it's stuck at the boot splashscreen
16.14.11 #       <[Saint]> nrg: moo_: *never* use hard reset like a power down if you can avoid it (which is almost always unless the device is in a *panic*.
16.14.21 Quit    Strife89 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
16.14.53 #       <[Saint]> nrg: long play is what you're looking for in such a situation.
16.15.07 #       <nrg> oooo ok
16.15.11 #       <[Saint]> try hard reset *only* if long play won;t do it (which is incredibly unlikely)
16.15.18 #       <nrg> is that like a soft reset?
16.15.26 #       <moo_> good to know, thanks
16.15.32 #       <[Saint]> Its actually physically powerig down. Safely.
16.15.50 #       <nrg> ty
16.15.50 #       <moo_> I recovered it by deleting the rockbox database and configuration from the emcore tools
16.15.55 #       <[Saint]> The hard reset method is the equivalent of pulling the plug.
16.16.26 #       <nrg> the fun way
16.16.37 #       <[Saint]> long power is governed by hardware, so it should work in most cases.
16.16.55 #       <[Saint]> but there are times I have seen it completely unresponsive.
16.17.03 #       <[Saint]> *long play, rather
16.20.16 #       <[Saint]> nrg: out of curiosity - how on earth have you been shutting down?
16.20.22 #       <[Saint]> Just waiting for idle timeout?
16.20.55 #       <nrg> lol, well i havent used an ipod in years
16.20.56 #       <[Saint]> The above makes it seem to me as though long play was a very recent discovery for you.
16.21.04 #       <[Saint]> Ah, I see.
16.21.19 #       <nrg> when i long hold power on my clip zip it tells me its shutting down
16.21.24 #       <nrg> so i do that
16.22.06 #       <[Saint]> unfortunately keymapping and hw-specific power functions don't translate between devices.
16.22.10 #       <nrg> usually i have it on an hour idle timeout for shutting down too
16.23.23 #       <nrg> yea i cant recall ever longplaying on a device
16.23.36 #       <nrg> did that work for 4th gen ipods?
16.23.45 Quit    moo_ (Quit: Page closed)
16.28.54 #       <[Saint]> Yep.
16.29.23 #       <[Saint]> Every iPod, I believe.
16.29.59 #       <[Saint]> iTunes FW will just hibernate on long play, but Rockbox will actually power down.
16.30.17 #       <[Saint]> (which is why iPods seem to boot so fast using the OF)
16.30.57 #       <pamaury> copper: can you recall me if your bug also triggered with the cabbie theme ?
16.32.49 #       <copper> yes
16.32.53 #       <copper> it did
16.36.19 Quit    ygrek (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16.37.09 Quit    Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
16.45.05 #       <pamaury> copper: I don't manage to reproduce it again :( Your procedure is to select a random album in the DB ?
16.46.18 #       <copper> yes, select a track, enable soft hold, wait for playback to stop within 90 seconds
16.46.25 #       <copper> if it doesn't happen, I select another track
16.46.39 #       <copper> if it doesn't happen after 3-4 tracks like that, I reboot the Fuze+
16.46.41 #       <copper> and try again
16.48.52 #       <copper> pamaury: at the time I ended up wondering if it was a faulty contact with the card, maybe by touching it ever so slightly while manipulating the Fuze+
16.49.09 #       <copper> but then I made sure to never touch the card, and I still ran into the bug
17.23.12 Quit    shamus (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17.29.12 Join    shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net)
17.38.16 Join    ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
17.39.23 Quit    [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
17.40.33 Join    [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
17.46.23 Join    AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
17.47.35 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17.50.52 #       <amayer> copper: my drive must have been very fragmented because it is night and day how much faster it is now that I formated and put all my audio back
18.00.48 #       <copper> eh
18.01.02 #       <copper> do you constantly add and delete stuff?
18.07.02 Join    rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela)
18.09.26 #       <amayer> yes. podcasts on a daily basis
18.11.21 #       <copper> ah
18.11.37 #       <copper> I never delete stuff, and every once in a while I add a whole album
18.11.38 Quit    [Saint] (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18.11.48 Join    [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
18.15.14 Quit    mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
18.16.32 #       <copper> I wonder if iTunes does anything fancy while transfering files, to avoid fragmentation
18.28.35 #       <amayer> if you are using the apple format for your ipod it probably does. but you cant use that with a windows computer
18.33.58 Quit    maruk1 (Quit: Leaving.)
18.36.18 #       <copper> how come?
18.41.30 Join    y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx)
18.41.41 Join    ygrek_ [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
18.44.09 Quit    ygrek (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
18.50.54 Quit    APLU (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18.56.16 Join    APLU [0] (~mulx@2a01:e34:ee29:12b0::10)
19.00.24 Quit    shamus (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
19.05.14 Join    shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net)
19.05.56 Quit    jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19.12.28 #       <gevaerts> copper: hfs+ is supposed to be a bit more advanced than fat
19.12.30 #       <gevaerts> I think
19.18.55 #       <pamaury> copper: I just noticed something super weird, I modified rockbox to do a random read test and stop when it encounters an error
19.19.13 #       <pamaury> and strangely, most errors happen when I touch some key, especially the touchpad
19.19.36 #       <pamaury> but it does not always "kill" the microsd
19.23.42 #       <copper> but it does sometimes?
19.24.05 #       <pamaury> It happened once so far
19.24.13 Quit    einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
19.24.30 #       <pamaury> I'm trying to get something more reliable
19.25.19 #       <copper> well this is encouraging
19.25.19 Join    bertrik [0] (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
19.25.20 Quit    bertrik (Changing host)
19.25.20 Join    bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
19.25.24 Join    kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka)
19.27.59 #       <pamaury> apparently the card is quite unreliable since I get many recoverable errors, so the sdmmc code should probably automatically retries read
19.30.18 #       <pamaury> but yeah this is encouraging since at least  I can repeat the error very easily it seems
19.31.13 #       <copper> faulty card?
19.31.16 #       <copper> it's brand new
19.31.27 #       <copper> :-/
19.31.41 #       <copper> or do you think that's just the way that model is?
19.32.08 #       <copper> eh, that's probably a premature question
19.32.29 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@91-64-117-207-dynip.superkabel.de)
19.32.30 Quit    kugel (Changing host)
19.32.30 Join    kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
19.33.00 #       <pamaury> also now that I have remove and reinserted the card I get no errors :-/
19.35.15 #       <pamaury> ok fun fact: if I reboot and run the test, I get faults, if I remove and reinserted, no errors, and if I reboot same cycle
19.36.16 #       <copper> you remove the card while Rockbox is running?
19.37.09 #       <pamaury> yes
19.37.37 #       <pamaury> and if I remove it a second or third time, also no errors
19.37.42 #       <copper> :-O
19.38.19 #       <copper> I thought, doing that would make puppies cry, or something
19.39.15 #       <pamaury> not if nothing is read/writing to it
19.39.31 #       <pamaury> rockbox does do aggressive write caching so all writes are nearly immediate
19.39.41 #       <pamaury> the FS will usually stay consistent
19.40.56 #       <pamaury> also plugging USB seems to have an effect
19.41.01 #       <pamaury> so it might be a power issue
19.42.19 #       <copper> that's something I can picture
19.47.38 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20.11.56 #       <pamaury> copper: good news, I have a reliable way to reproduce it now
20.12.09 #       <pamaury> it triggers within seconds
20.13.59 #       <copper> hw?
20.14.01 #       <copper> how?
20.15.34 #       <pamaury> just random reads + retry, and disabling dircache
20.15.51 Quit    fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
20.16.55 #       <pamaury> also, I'm triggering it on *my* fuze+ with your card
20.18.31 Join    fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053155151.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20.19.22 #       <pamaury> neither the speed nor the amount of data transferred seem to matter
20.35.33 #       <copper> I don't understand why it didn't happen before
20.43.59 Join    Rower [0] (~husvagn@h176n2-aeg-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
21.16.58 Quit    krnlyng (Remote host closed the connection)
21.25.47 #       <kugel> did we settle on the devcon date now?
21.25.54 #       <kugel> is everyone fine with with?
21.26.08 #       <kugel> (except those that put a cross for that date of course)
21.37.17 Join    RiD [0] (~RiD@188.250.69.119)
21.42.54 Quit    ygrek_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21.47.41 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21.50.55 Join    Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d00b90e.pool.mediaWays.net)
22.01.02 #       <pamaury> kugel: I'm good
22.05.07 Quit    Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22.07.57 Quit    Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)
22.16.40 Quit    y4n (Quit: We're fucking 3LN!)
22.33.40 Join    wodz [0] (~wodz@89-75-151-160.dynamic.chello.pl)
22.36.06 Part    LinusN
22.39.25 Join    dexpid [0] (~dexpid@cpe-184-59-114-126.cinci.res.rr.com)
22.41.35 Quit    dexpid1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22.42.05 Join    Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-241-113.mcn.bellsouth.net)
22.47.15 Quit    Strife89 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22.54.20 #       <pamaury> copper: I just discovered something strange, all the failing read actually request for....0 sectors ! It's clearly a bug in my code but the question now is whether this is this bug which you triggered or another one
23.02.23 Quit    Scall (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23.13.01 #       <wodz> pamaury: but why other cards don't trigger this?
23.15.05 Quit    ender` (Quit:  If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and OBOL.	-- A Programmer (@1Pr0grammer))
23.18.59 #       <pamaury> wodz: my guess is the following, when called with count=0, it will actuall ask the card count-1 sectors in some occasion
23.19.38 #       <pamaury> for microSD cards, this amount is probably invalid but not on microSDXC ?
23.20.04 #       <pamaury> but still I agree it's strange
23.20.38 #       <pamaury> on the other hand i'm not even sure this is the actual bug, and it must be quite rare for the upper layer to call storage read with size 0
23.20.41 #       <pamaury> (if possible)
23.22.04 #       <wodz> actually calling with size 0 looks like a bug (although driver should handle this gracefully)
23.24.30 Quit    amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23.30.59 Quit    wodz (Quit: Leaving)
23.39.27 Join    Scall [0] (~chat@unaffiliated/scall)
23.46.10 #       <fs-bluebot> Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 25ecbc5, 253 builds, 29 clients.
23.46.43 #       <pamaury> I'm still uncertain this is the actual bug, iirc the one time I managed to capture it, the read size was nonzero
23.47.42 ***     Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23.52.18 #       <fs-bluebot> Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 368 seconds.