--- Log for 11.05.114 Server: barjavel.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 15 days and 16 hours ago 00.01.53 Quit y4n (Quit: Do you like hurting other people?) 00.03.29 Quit MMlosh (Client Quit) 00.03.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.19.37 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140508121358]) 00.30.14 Quit cmhobbs_ (Remote host closed the connection) 00.32.34 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net) 00.32.34 Quit cmhobbs (Changing host) 00.32.34 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs) 00.32.43 Quit cmhobbs (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.32.45 Join cmhobbs_ [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net) 00.41.20 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 01.01.10 Quit cmhobbs_ (Quit: Leaving) 01.01.21 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs) 01.12.56 Quit tertu (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.19.02 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:ad7c:7b6b:f90a:a8b2) 01.19.22 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@5356B815.cm-6-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) 01.19.22 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 01.19.22 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 01.30.04 Quit ender` (Quit: With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC1925) 01.44.00 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.200.73) 01.51.33 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01.52.01 Quit Zarggg (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.53.45 Join Zarggg [0] (~zarggg@24.229.140.62.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) 02.03.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.39.06 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 03.00.01 Quit AlexP (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03.08.37 Quit Bluefoxicy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03.13.49 Join Bluefoxicy [0] (~Bluefoxic@172.56.3.155) 03.18.08 Join us`0gb [0] (~0gb.us@c-71-237-219-28.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 03.23.21 Quit pystar89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03.23.30 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.) 03.30.15 Quit Bluefoxicy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 03.31.51 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03.34.32 Quit zoktar (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03.34.49 Join Bluefoxicy [0] (~Bluefoxic@c-76-21-157-203.hsd1.md.comcast.net) 03.38.38 Join zoktar [0] (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) 03.53.41 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04.00.14 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d01393a.pool.mediaWays.net) 04.03.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.06.30 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@74.112.200.73) 04.07.10 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04.07.16 Quit us`0gb (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04.15.24 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d01393a.pool.mediaWays.net) 04.18.52 Join us`0gb [0] (~0gb.us@c-71-237-219-28.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 04.30.16 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04.37.17 Quit alucryd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04.40.00 Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@archlinux/trusteduser/alucryd) 04.48.39 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d01393a.pool.mediaWays.net) 04.52.07 Quit us`0gb (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04.52.51 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 04.55.33 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) 04.55.35 Join pixelma_ [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.55.36 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) 04.55.36 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 04.55.37 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 04.55.40 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 05.03.01 # * [Saint] seems to have assumed the job of "Freemyipod Rockbox support front man" 05.03.27 Join us`0gb [0] (~0gb.us@c-71-237-219-28.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 05.03.31 # <[Saint]> Its actually pretty bloody annoying that users just don't get that they shouldn't be coming to us for support. 05.03.49 # <[Saint]> (AND that they don't seem to understand the nature of the port) 05.04.36 # <[Saint]> If they came to use for actual Rockbox prblems, I wouldn't mind. 05.04.48 # <[Saint]> But 99% of it is emCORE stuff. 05.07.18 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.13.14 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.22.16 Join pystar89 [0] (~pystar89@ip-95-223-21-209.unitymediagroup.de) 05.38.28 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.40.11 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.45.48 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05.47.23 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.59.58 Join goom [0] (~goomba@cpe-72-177-176-215.satx.res.rr.com) 06.03.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.05.52 Quit goom (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 06.07.10 Quit pystar89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 06.45.00 Quit K1773R (Excess Flood) 06.45.44 Join K1773R [0] (~K1773R@unaffiliated/k1773r) 06.53.31 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.200.73) 07.01.48 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 07.03.04 Quit scorche` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07.03.05 Quit dfkt_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07.03.42 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 07.34.32 Join tertu [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 07.40.44 Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) 07.41.53 Quit shai (Client Quit) 08.01.16 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 08.03.50 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.06.36 Join pystar89 [0] (~pystar89@ip-95-223-21-209.unitymediagroup.de) 09.01.08 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@c-26d572d5.010-215-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) 09.01.09 Quit n1s (Changing host) 09.01.09 Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) 09.02.44 Quit Zambezi (Changing host) 09.02.44 Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi) 09.03.53 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-178-161.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 09.07.38 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 09.09.38 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 09.10.40 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 09.11.56 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 09.19.34 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 09.22.18 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 09.23.36 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 09.27.30 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 09.28.24 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 09.31.49 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 09.50.31 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 09.55.34 # 03:03:49 UTC <[Saint]> (AND that they don't seem to understand the nature of the port) 09.55.59 # the rockbox port statuses don't help with the confusion 09.56.29 # with "unusable" being essentially meaningless wrt to the actual usability of the port 09.57.13 # they see people using Rockbox on their Classic left and right, so what's "unusable" about it? 09.57.23 # (that's a rhetorical question) 09.59.32 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 10.03.53 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.06.39 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 10.21.52 # and i guess they come to #rockbox because installing rockbox is the goal 10.22.04 # (and perhaps because #rockbox is more active?) 10.22.49 # the reasoning being "I have trouble getting Rockbox to run, let's ask the Rockbox guys" 10.28.47 # <[Saint]> Many don't have an issue getting it to run. 10.28.53 # <[Saint]> They have issue installing it. 10.29.09 # <[Saint]> ...and don't realize we're not reponsible for this. 10.29.36 # <[Saint]> ...and take issue if I dare even suggest that they shouldn't be coming to us in the first place. 10.30.33 # <[Saint]> "How did you install it? Oh - with the third party, totally unsupported by us installer, and you want support - uhuh, I see" 10.33.20 # <[Saint]> I don't think the port staus hurts us in this instance. 10.33.29 # <[Saint]> All of them are perfectly accurate. 10.33.34 # <[Saint]> *status 10.36.03 # Gah. 10.36.55 # 03:03:01 UTC * [Saint] seems to have assumed the job of "Freemyipod Rockbox support front man" 10.37.05 # if you mind so much, don't provide support for it 10.37.34 Quit pystar89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 10.40.53 # <[Saint]> I think you're missing the point I was trying to make. I don't mind offering the support, but its odd that they come to us, and slightly annoying that so many users bounce off the actual support channels. 10.40.55 # and if you, a Rockbox guy, has become the emcore support front man, then that confirms my hypothesis that #rockbox is more active than emcore 10.41.07 # it's not odd at all 10.41.14 # people aren't machines 10.41.29 # <[Saint]> That is mainly the problem of the head-fi's et al. 10.41.39 # <[Saint]> People aren't finding the project via freemyipod 10.41.46 # probably not 10.41.52 # <[Saint]> some don't even know it exists. 10.43.22 # I remember going to #freemyipod-support the first time, but I don't remember if I went to #rockbox first and was redirected there 10.43.29 # <[Saint]> And when they find the forums, I feel a bit of a dick being all like "Yeah, I could help you, but I won't do it here, so go here and I will" 10.43.36 # and I'm hardly representative of "normal people" 10.43.39 # <[Saint]> I should likely just get over that I guess. 11.09.36 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@74.112.200.73) 11.30.16 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 11.43.39 # [Saint]: just write a rockbox bootloader for the classic then ;) 11.44.05 # and get someone to do the rbutil integration work 11.44.07 # yes please! 11.44.47 # actually, if someone takes care about the rockbox side of things, I might assist from the lowlevel side 11.45.19 # <[Saint]> I actually did look into carving the UI out of emCORE, but I decided that that absolutely wasn't the way to go about it and gave up. 11.45.28 # as in writing the code that launches the rockbox bootloader from NOR flash, and the code that puts it there 11.45.40 # <[Saint]> I mostly just got lost in code that scared the almighty shit out of me, though. 11.45.50 # <[Saint]> Bits that didn't concern what I was looking at. 11.45.57 # you don't need to touch emcore at all 11.46.23 # <[Saint]> I thought it would be handy to leave the begugger in place. 11.46.30 # we just need the emcore loader, and patch it a bit to fire up a rockbox bootloader directly (I can take care of that) 11.46.32 # <[Saint]> man, I butchered that. 11.46.39 # <[Saint]> *debugger 11.47.17 # the one thing that's blocking this currently is rockbox USB being broken in a way that windows doesn't like, and nobody knowing why 11.47.46 # <[Saint]> That, and, people with the time, motivation, and skill to do it. 11.47.52 # I've tried to port over UMSboot's USB stack to rockbox, but the interface is very different so I had to write quite a bit of glue logic 11.47.52 # <[Saint]> No one seems to have the magic three. 11.48.29 # I got it to compile and respond to a get device descriptor request, but then it locks up the ipod and I don't know where in the code that happens 11.49.07 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12.03.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.04.45 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 12.11.34 # [Saint]: it isn't as difficult as you might think... the USB bug is the major problem 12.11.44 # then we "just" need someone to port this to the classic: http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=blob;f=bootloader/ipodnano2g.c;h=c5fa6e2e65805abda851102e608fe8108af96b6e;hb=refs/heads/master 12.12.31 # it needs a few changes, such as adding bootloader USB, but that's just a matter of setting a few flags somewhere 12.12.40 # (and remove OF booting support for now, unless we manage to fix that as a byproduct of the changes) 12.13.36 # then someone who knows the windows world and rbutil well should have a look at making it install a (working) DFU driver and using that to push a binary to the ipod 12.13.37 # <[Saint]> Its not something I've had a lot of inclination to work on as it would certainly feel to me as though it were making your work irrelevant. 12.13.43 # I can take care of the rest 12.13.48 # <[Saint]> I shouldn;t look at it sentimentally, but I do. 12.14.14 # [Saint]: that's a completely wrong point of view 12.14.20 # <[Saint]> I mean, lets face it, for 99.99% of those who use emCORE, its a bootloader. 12.14.24 # we'll still use emcore as a developer tool 12.14.39 # and you'll help get us rid of 99% of support overhead 12.15.18 # <[Saint]> It is the wrong way to look at it, you're right - but I can't always ensure that my feelings are rational. ;) 12.15.56 # you have my full consent for getting rockbox rid of emcore, so just don't worry about that ;) 12.16.56 # <[Saint]> Its quite pleasing to hear that, as it did trouble me, and I was unsure about asking it in case you didn't feel so supportive of such a move. 12.17.00 # we'll still keep it available as an option, just like on the nano2g, just reduce the complexity for the average user who just doesn't need the flexibility 12.17.43 # <[Saint]> The shell/debugger would be bloody nice to keep, though... 12.18.19 # that's why I won't touch emcore. we should just build an alternative, which is fairly easy on the classic 12.19.24 # (unlike on the nano for NOR boot, where I objected to that simply because it would have pulled a lot of unnecessary complexity into rockbox that couldn't have been handled easy, such as FTL recovery code, bootloader encryption/decryption, uninstallation, ...) 12.19.53 # <[Saint]> As far as RbUtil is concerned, that _should_ be bloody straightforward, unless there's other OS fuckery that gets triggered. 12.20.16 # <[Saint]> It should just be a case of "instruct user on envoking DFU mode; send magic commands" 12.20.30 # <[Saint]> In theory at least. 12.20.34 # you need to install the driver in between ;) 12.20.37 # that's the tricky part 12.20.44 # especially if itunes is installed on that machine 12.20.45 # <[Saint]> Ahhhh. Right. Yeah. 12.20.59 # <[Saint]> Zadig to the rescue. 12.21.12 # yeah, but I'd like to get that integrated into rbutil 12.21.48 # which shouldn't be too hard either, it's just that someone needs to figure out how all of that works 12.23.48 # instructing the user should get easier as well with the right tools: launch the DFU tool first, it tells you to press and hold menu+select until that message goes away 12.24.34 # we have a total of about 4 seconds for reacting to the device appearing on the bus and making the user release the buttons, that should be sufficient 12.24.53 # we just need to take care of itunes potentially attempting to put it into WTF mode 12.25.17 # <[Saint]> You'd think, but any situation that involves users and timing is bound to fall over. 12.25.20 # either by killing it beforehand, or by writing some payload that actually boot through WTF 12.25.31 # I'm not sure if they ever fixed the pwnage bug in WTF 12.25.33 # <[Saint]> If only there was some form of "Hey, you, jump into DFU mode now" command. 12.25.45 # <[Saint]> ...there likely is, but, hey, I doubt Apple will share. 12.25.53 # [Saint]: if it falls over, just tell the user "hey, that was too late, try again" 12.26.06 # I don't think there is one 12.26.22 # even for code that's running on the ipod it's quite tricky to get into DFU 12.26.57 # there are basically two options: corrupting the nor flash, or making a copy of the bootrom in SRAM and patching it up quite a bit before jumping into it 12.27.38 # <[Saint]> the former would be a reliable trigger, but not very nice - you can't back out of it. 12.27.51 # <[Saint]> exit install? too bad, restore. 12.28.08 # actually it would be sufficient to upload WTF and RECOVERY 12.28.14 # which shouldn't wipe the disk 12.28.32 # (or upload a custom binary which just repairs the specific corruption that was applied) 12.29.10 # anyway, we can't make use of that, because we need a code execution attack vector for that... and if we had that, we wouldn't need to use DFU in the first place 12.29.24 # if only the notes exploit was still alive ;) 12.29.35 # * [Saint] stops typing a longer variant of that. 12.29.51 # <[Saint]> I relized after I pressed enter that we'd need execution fot that. 12.30.18 # well, we could of course try to find another OF vulnerability 12.30.34 # now that we have disassemblies and everything it would be MUCH easier than the original exploit 12.31.00 # it's probably even easier to implement the DFU variant though ;) 12.36.40 # actually we could probably cherrypick quite a bit of the DFU windows interaction from various iphone jailbreaking tools 12.36.58 # I think most of those rely on itunes being installed though 12.37.43 Join pystar89 [0] (~pystar89@ip-95-223-21-209.unitymediagroup.de) 12.41.51 Quit scorche (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12.42.27 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12.42.28 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 12.42.49 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 12.44.37 Quit TheSeven (Remote host closed the connection) 12.47.03 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 12.48.09 Join RiD [0] (kamisakea@2.83.36.146) 13.01.07 Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 13.05.41 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 13.06.47 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 13.06.47 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 13.06.47 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 13.07.37 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13.37.51 Quit y4n (Disconnected by services) 13.37.58 Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 14.03.59 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.55.35 Join Draconis [0] (~lao@optima3102.o2.carnet.hr) 15.06.43 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 15.09.00 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15.17.41 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 15.31.54 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@dyndsl-037-138-077-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 15.34.06 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 15.36.53 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@83.175.90.24) 15.40.16 Quit Draconis () 15.40.49 Quit MMlosh (Quit: Bye...) 15.41.40 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:ad7c:7b6b:f90a:a8b2) 15.43.24 Quit us`0gb (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 15.44.33 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::100) 15.45.16 Quit preglow (*.net *.split) 15.57.44 Quit MMlosh (Quit: Bye...) 16.04.00 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.17.22 Quit MethoS- (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16.30.04 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@dyndsl-037-138-077-168.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 16.41.40 Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16.52.05 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) 16.54.08 Quit pystar89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16.59.54 Join kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) 17.01.30 Quit adnap (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.03.37 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d0117b8.pool.mediaWays.net) 17.06.27 Join adnap [0] (~adnap@cpe-24-27-24-18.austin.res.rr.com) 17.09.30 Quit ps-auxw (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.13.16 Quit copper (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.15.25 Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123) 17.24.04 Join copper [0] (~copper@unaffiliated/copper) 17.31.21 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 17.32.41 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) 17.33.46 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) 17.34.07 Quit copper (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 17.35.24 Join copper [0] (~copper@unaffiliated/copper) 17.38.46 Quit Unhelpful (Remote host closed the connection) 18.04.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.23.11 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18.25.54 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 18.27.53 Join kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) 18.39.11 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18.49.44 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 18.52.55 Join pystar89 [0] (~pystar89@ip-95-223-21-209.unitymediagroup.de) 19.03.11 Join sciopath [0] (~sciopath@AMontsouris-652-1-249-64.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr) 19.09.37 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) 19.15.09 Join kuldeepdhaka [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) 19.18.04 Quit MethoS- (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 19.54.29 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d0117b8.pool.mediaWays.net) 19.55.43 # gevaerts: do you think it's ok if I include the source code of mi4code from MrH in our trunk ? 19.55.54 # Hmmm 19.55.58 # Good question :) 19.58.08 # Build Server message: 3New build round started. 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