--- Log for 06.06.114 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 24 days and 19 hours ago 00.02.35 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 00.06.44 Join model|afk [0] (~model@cscluster.minotstateu.edu) 00.12.57 Quit rudi_s (Quit: leaving) 00.15.36 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.17.00 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d0108ed.pool.mediaWays.net) 00.24.08 Join rudi_s [0] (~simon@ruderich.eu) 00.26.08 Quit ender` (Quit: In every computer error, there are at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer.) 00.47.51 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 00.47.56 Join bluebrother^ [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 00.49.49 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 00.52.09 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053155215.adsl.alicedsl.de) 00.52.45 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01.19.41 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01.58.19 Quit ZincAlloy1 (Quit: Leaving.) 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(~foad@unaffiliated/foad) 07.33.35 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@93.190.93.215) 07.33.35 Join the-kyle [0] (~kyle@kyle.tk) 07.33.35 Join Galois [0] (djao@efnet.math.uwaterloo.ca) 07.33.35 Join teythoon [0] (~teythoon@mail.jade-hamburg.de) 07.33.35 Join Cultist [0] (~CultOfThe@c-98-223-211-32.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 07.33.35 Join ParkerR [0] (ParkerR@unaffiliated/parkerr) 07.33.35 Join Scromple_ [0] (~Simon@161.43.73.67) 07.33.35 Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@ipservice-092-211-041-018.pools.arcor-ip.net) 07.33.35 Join aevin [0] (eivindsy@unaffiliated/aevin) 07.33.35 Join n17ikh [0] (~n17ikh@unaffiliated/n17ikh) 07.33.35 Join __jae___ [0] (~jae@dedicated.jaerhard.com) 07.33.35 Join ranmachan [0] (~ranma@yumi.uguu.de) 07.33.35 Join Kohlrabi [0] (~kohlrabi@kohlio.de) 07.33.35 Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@capitalthree.pwnz.org) 07.33.35 Join shufflebot [0] (~ec2-user@unaffiliated/shufflebot) 07.33.35 Join markun [0] (~markun@rockbox/developer/markun) 07.33.35 Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi) 07.33.35 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 07.36.05 Join ruskie [0] (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) 07.37.24 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 07.41.11 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 07.46.58 Quit amiconn_ (Remote host closed the connection) 07.46.58 Quit pixelma (Remote host closed the connection) 07.47.35 Join pixelma [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 07.47.36 Join amiconn [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 07.52.44 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-75-149-112.dynamic.chello.pl) 07.53.15 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 07.59.49 # http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48321.msg228584/topicseen.html#msg228584 is something which bothers me for quite a while. It comes from playlist.c 08.08.24 Quit Provel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08.12.23 # wodz: perhaps it isnt closed properly upon usb connect? 08.14.08 # I don't know this part of code to judge. I vaguely remember it started after usb-buflib fixes 08.14.17 # kugel: ^ 08.15.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.16.11 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.42.44 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 08.44.45 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.12.45 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@74.112.200.73) 09.14.06 Join Provel [0] (~Provel@75-132-32-77.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) 09.26.09 # wodz: iirc this bug comes from the code now closing the file and then using the same file descriptor to read it after usb connection, and of course it doesn't work since the file has been closed 09.26.25 # s/closed/the descriptor doesn't exist anymore 09.32.47 # makes sense 09.34.20 # but when I looked at it, it was that obvious how to fix that, I don't really know that part of the code 09.34.24 # *wasn't 09.47.39 Join Geoff_ [0] (~qua@192.3.27.126) 09.50.23 # saratoga: it was showing about 2h 30 minutes with the battery fairly depleted, so I thought it wasn't working properly. Now I have a doubt with the modifications that I made to my iPod (SD card storage, new battery), so I'm running a battery benchmark to make sure. 09.51.52 # doubts* 09.56.26 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10.15.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.40.18 Join doubledogdare610 [0] (4b88dd4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.136.221.76) 10.40.47 # Hello! 10.45.18 Quit Provel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10.48.58 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 11.04.07 # running for 90 minutes, battery at 66% :-/ 11.05.57 # fuck 11.06.12 # maybe the battery I got on eBay is bad 11.06.33 # it was completely depleted when I received it 11.07.02 # I still have the original battery, but damn if I'm going to re-open the iPod 11.08.14 # the eBay ad reads "new battery" 11.09.15 # Li-Polymer, 580 mAh, 3.7V 11.09.25 Join Provel [0] (~Provel@75-132-32-77.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) 11.17.17 Join Nei [0] (~ailin@unaffiliated/nemui) 11.18.08 # hi,can I make a link to an app that directly starts it? if I add one from the context menu, upon starting it, I it only goes to the folder and I need a 2nd click to open it 11.44.16 Quit doubledogdare610 (Quit: Page closed) 12.15.52 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.16.04 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@pD9EEA52B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 13.21.54 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-43-2-35.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 13.21.54 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) 13.21.54 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 13.23.54 # 'Error accessing playlist control file' is weird. It comes from plalist.c playlist_resume() when playlist->control_fd = open(playlist->control_filename, O_RDWR); fails 13.24.28 # so this is not the case of using closed fd 13.27.03 # The cases I've seen usually ended up being filesystem corruption 13.27.31 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 13.28.32 # its in sim 13.29.30 # gevaerts: ^ 13.29.40 # Hmmm 13.29.47 # That sounds more fun 13.30.22 # I can't see why it fails that way 13.31.13 # You're sure it's there and not further on when parsing the file or something like that? 13.31.58 Join RiD [0] (Ghost@2.83.227.20) 13.33.44 # its fairly simple to check - build any sim (I used video but you know) set brakepoint at playlist_resume() and see yourself 13.34.11 # * gevaerts nods 13.34.53 # usb connect/disconnect cycle triggers this reliably 13.40.34 # hmm, this is not always the case 13.45.17 # is the voltage value in the battery benchmark correct? 13.45.30 # it's pretty much the same for the Classic, Fuze+ and Clip+ 13.45.43 # ~4.2 V 13.46.03 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 13.46.51 # and, those the maxium voltage value decrease as the battery gets older? 13.46.54 # maximum* 13.48.26 # li-ion/lipo batteries are designed to have 4.1 or 4.2 V when fully charged (depends on particular chemistry) 13.48.34 # this should not change with age 13.49.50 # erm 13.50.42 # so how do I know whether it's my battery that's bad, or if my SD card adapter is draining my battery stupidly fast? 13.51.13 # I'm waiting for the battery bench to finish, but it's looking pretty awful 13.51.13 # what changes is the internal resistance of the cell which means increasing voltage drop when you are taking current from battery 13.51.21 # Now with battery_bench, I suspect 13.51.36 # ? 13.51.40 # yes I'm running battery_bench 13.51.40 # Can't the classic measure current? 13.51.49 # Well yes, you said :) 13.52.15 # What I'm saying is that I doubt whether you're going to get enough information out of that to figure out where the problem is 13.52.18 # Well 13.52.24 # Maybe from the shape of the discharge curve? 13.52.33 # this iPod modding adventure is turning out to be a bloody disaster 13.53.07 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 13.53.11 # Don't old/bad batteries go into a steep voltage drop line earlier than new ones? 13.53.20 # * gevaerts doesn't remember 13.53.45 # gevaerts: yes, thats the effect of what I said :-) 13.54.23 # Hmmm 13.54.30 # I'll take your word for it :) 13.54.43 # the old/bad battery tends to recover its voltage when you stop draining current from it as well 13.54.54 # but wouldn't high power consumption show the same effect? 13.55.35 # behavior* 13.55.39 # this is easily seen in hdd players when you have huge voltage drop on startup and then it recovers (unless it hits low level limit) 13.55.41 # copper: http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/35-04/touchscreen/FIG_07.gif 13.55.51 # That bend is at a different place for older batteries 13.56.36 # with place==voltage 13.56.45 # So if you plot the voltage against time you got from battery_bench, and compare it to another player with a battery with similar chemistry, you should be able to compare the bends 13.56.45 # and the slope of 'shallow discharge' is steeper for old batteries 13.57.03 # 4h 20 min, 15% 13.57.06 # Yes, but that doesn't help if you don't know how much current you're expecting 13.57.25 # Which is the case here, with the unknown quantity being this new SD adapter 13.57.50 # true 13.57.55 # hmmm 13.58.55 # The most reliable way is to measure current draw directly but unfortunately this is not the easiest way 13.59.39 # battery is at 3.674 V right now 13.59.44 # I know the ipod video can measure current, I suspect the classic might be able to do that too. Still, that gives you samples, not averages directly 14.00.10 # * gevaerts would compare the steep dropoff voltage with a few other devices 14.00.30 # I suspect the other devices don't have to be the same at all, as long as they're also lipo 14.00.34 # the battery graph in "debug" reads 3.681-3.813 V 14.00.38 # not sure what that means 14.00.55 # it shows a 45° downward line 14.01.02 # So if your fuze+ and clip+ also start at 4.2V, I'd assume they're good enough to compare 14.01.26 # I'd assume that to be the range of values displayed 14.01.27 # gevaerts: better yet, I still have previous battery bench results with my Classic 14.01.37 # Ah, good :) 14.01.39 # https://outpost.fr/tmp/2k6.txt 14.01.43 # that's the old one 14.02.15 # anyway classic cuts power to hdd when not in use. SD adapter would need to be severely screwed to take considerable more then spinning platters in activity periods. 14.04.13 # copper: that one seems to "die" at 3.72V 14.04.51 # did you plot it or did you just look at the values? 14.05.32 # huh. 3.7 is considered 'nominal voltage' for singe lipo cell 14.05.55 # wodz: maybe the adapter consumes too much while idling 14.06.51 # copper: I ran gnuplot and said "plot '2k6.txt' using 2:5 with lines" 14.06.57 # copper: the power to adapter (well to hd) should be hard cut by ipod 14.07.49 # copper: how old was that battery? 14.07.49 # gevaerts: nice, thanks 14.07.55 # I agree that 3.7V seems early 14.08.16 # But if it was a bit older as well... 14.08.40 # dunno 14.08.43 # a year or two 14.09.01 # that bench still shows 30 hours of playback 14.09.15 # Yes, so it can't have been *too* old 14.11.42 # gevaerts: I can't now trigger 'Error playlist control file' bug in sim any more :/ 14.11.59 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.) 14.14.00 # btw 14.14.18 # how can the battery put out 4.2 V when it's a "3.7 V battery" 14.14.32 # Reverse marketing? :) 14.14.55 # That is not an acceptable answer! 14.14.58 # :P 14.15.42 # is the iPod's battery supposed to be "3.7 V" 14.15.52 # or did I just buy a crappy one 14.15.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.16.25 # I believe lipo batteries are always sold as nominally 3.7V 14.17.04 # The thing is thay voltage depends on charge and current, so there's no single actual useful number 14.17.51 # "The voltage of a Li-poly cell varies from about 2.7-3.0 V (discharged) to about 4.20-4.35 V (fully charged)" according to wikipedia, as well as "Nominal cell voltage 3.7 V" 14.18.43 # nice, thanks 14.20.29 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 14.21.07 # The thing is there is always dc-dc converter involved so difference in actual cell voltage is not that important as long as it stays within limits. 14.21.50 # BTW. http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MpioRuntime - the first graph is using standard nokia battery from cellphone 3.7V 14.22.27 # Top voltage is 4.0 just because that is how charging circuit in hd200 is setup 14.28.06 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving) 14.32.37 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 14.35.51 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 14.42.02 # ha, little step forward with atj2135 - I can do usb soft disconnect and soft connect :-) 14.42.35 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net) 14.42.35 Quit cmhobbs (Changing host) 14.42.35 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs) 14.52.13 # wodz: great ^^ 14.53.50 # pamaury: I resumed my work to bring hwstub to this platform :-) 14.54.18 # ok, good to know, I put some code for hwstub on gerrit but it's unfinished, I should resume my work on it too 14.56.46 Join fragilematter1 [0] (~fragilema@193.226.142.214) 14.58.34 Quit fragilematter (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15.04.22 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15.05.20 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 15.33.05 Quit ter2 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15.36.44 Join ter2 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 15.48.04 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 16.02.15 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@pD9EEA52B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 16.07.55 # https://outpost.fr/tmp/KHs.txt 16.09.15 # 6 hours ;-( 16.09.53 # https://outpost.fr/tmp/Xol.png/ 16.10.02 # Compared to the other one, that battery doesn't look bad as such to me 16.10.24 # really? 16.10.40 # As in, the drop off voltage is actually lower 16.10.55 # It might be lower capacity than expected of course 16.10.59 # previous graph: https://outpost.fr/tmp/CdV.png/ 16.11.32 # so 16.11.44 # is there any conclusion that can be drawned from this? 16.11.48 # drawn 16.11.58 # * gevaerts isn't sure 16.12.07 # 6 hours is pathetic 16.12.09 # I'd investigate current 16.12.28 # that's barely a train trip to Paris 16.12.36 # Does the classic show current draw in the debug menu? 16.12.49 # you need a second iPod, so you can go to paris and back :) 16.12.49 # dunno 16.12.52 # it's charging 16.13.01 # ZincAlloy: fuck that 16.13.04 # I'm done 16.13.11 # :D 16.13.19 # I'll be using my smartphone and mourning my iPod and all that wasted time and money 16.14.17 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) 16.14.29 # I'll probably try to open it up again and test the original battery, whenever I'm calm enough 16.14.55 # what a total fiasco 16.15.14 Quit ter2 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16.15.55 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.20.40 Join Misanthropos [0] (~Misanthro@frnk-4d0090ba.pool.mediaWays.net) 16.21.18 # i've been charging the battery for 15 minutes and it's already at 50% 16.21.23 # does that tell you guys anything? 16.21.47 # That's a bit suspicious 16.22.24 # well, it's a €6 battery from eBay 16.22.31 # I thought that was cheap. 16.22.48 # I just need to test the original battery 16.23.23 # I'm already cringing at the idea of fighting with the iPod again to pry it open 16.41.58 Quit model|afk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.41.59 Quit model (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16.51.11 Quit fragilematter1 (Quit: Leaving.) 16.53.38 Join Rower [0] (~husvagn@h176n2-aeg-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) 17.02.56 Join model [0] (~model@cscluster.minotstateu.edu) 17.03.05 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 17.03.30 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17.04.17 Quit model (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.04.33 Join model [0] (~model@cscluster.minotstateu.edu) 17.07.23 Join tertu [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 17.11.22 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-175-215.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) 17.11.22 Quit JdGordon (Changing host) 17.11.22 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 17.12.16 Quit mikroflops (Quit: <(^_^)>) 17.12.52 Join Saijin_Naib [0] (~Saijin_Na@cpe-24-93-31-78.rochester.res.rr.com) 17.17.54 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.24.48 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 17.27.10 Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@178.174.137.62) 17.30.16 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 17.51.31 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.59.37 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18.00.17 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 18.00.28 Quit Marex (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 18.00.42 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18.00.57 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 18.06.03 Join Marex [0] (~Marex@195.140.253.167) 18.08.07 Quit us`0gb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18.15.58 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.16.02 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) 18.21.02 Quit tertu (Disconnected by services) 18.21.02 Join ter2 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 18.25.47 Part Saijin_Naib 18.41.34 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 18.45.32 Join RiD [0] (RiD@2.83.227.20) 19.00.42 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19.24.09 Quit DexterLB (Read error: Operation timed out) 19.24.53 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) 19.24.53 Quit bertrik (Changing host) 19.24.53 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 19.27.18 # https://outpost.fr/8ca → poststar.com: Randall James Jenks | Original URL: http://poststar.com/lifestyles/announcements/obituaries/randall-james-jenks/article_9896ad18-ed2e-11e3-9e06-001a4bcf887a.html 19.27.26 # the Rockbox user who died recently 19.32.13 Join DexterLB [0] (~dex@79.100.10.170) 19.34.20 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-178-161.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 19.42.04 Quit DexterLB (Read error: Operation timed out) 19.46.13 Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 19.50.15 Join DexterLB [0] (~dex@79-100-10-170.btc-net.bg) 19.51.58 Quit Jinx (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.52.07 Quit DexterLB (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.57.15 Join DexterLB [0] (~dex@95-42-2-67.btc-net.bg) 20.00.28 Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) 20.02.44 Quit DexterLB (Read error: Operation timed out) 20.06.46 Join DexterLB [0] (~dex@95-42-9-64.btc-net.bg) 20.09.52 Quit Cultist (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20.14.24 Join Cultist [0] (~CultOfThe@c-98-223-211-32.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 20.16.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.32.44 Quit ter2 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20.44.54 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:3ded:3bc7:a7ab:4b26) 20.50.18 Join ter2 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 21.33.24 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 21.52.06 Join tertu3 [0] (~tertu@143.44.70.199) 21.53.24 Quit ter2 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22.01.14 # that was Marvin? Shame about that for such a young guy 22.01.26 # yes 22.04.53 # we're really just here, until we're not 22.08.42 # better make the most out of it then 22.08.50 # yup 22.09.58 # good night 22.16.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.21.07 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 22.27.51 Quit tertu3 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22.31.09 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 22.34.30 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving) 22.44.50 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22.48.51 Quit DexterLB (Read error: Operation timed out) 22.50.50 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22.52.33 Join DexterLB [0] (~dex@79-100-2-107.btc-net.bg) 23.00.38 Join model|afk [0] (~model@cscluster.minotstateu.edu) 23.05.15 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 23.06.14 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 23.21.07 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 23.59.01 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)