--- Log for 07.06.114  Server: leguin.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
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11.05.00 #       <TheSeven> copper, gevaerts_: we sadly don't have current readings on the classic (yet)
11.05.30 #       <TheSeven> there seems to be some analog mux in front of the adc, and we don't know how that one is controlled
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11.05.46 #       <TheSeven> someone needs to look into the diagmode disassembly more closely
11.05.58 #       <TheSeven> I definitly know that it has a current sensor though :)
11.06.54 #       <TheSeven> given that we don't use the current sensor yet, forget about battery gauge readings while charging. those are way off (overestimating)
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11.29.07 #       <copper> TheSeven: like I said, I just need to re-open the thing and test the original battery
11.29.48 #       <copper> which I probably should have done with the "new" battery before closing the iPod
11.29.58 #       <copper> *facepalm*
11.30.27 #       <copper> I didn't think it was necessary, because it charged fine and the iPod worked fine
11.31.34 #       <TheSeven> one thing that the graph showed was that the battery wasn't fully charged when you started the test. it was only around 90% or so.
11.32.15 #       <copper> the old bench read 95%
11.32.23 #       <copper> the new one reads 94%
11.32.27 #       <copper> https://outpost.fr/tmp/2k6.txt
11.32.33 #       <copper> https://outpost.fr/tmp/KHs.txt
11.33.04 #       <TheSeven> the graphs start at 4250mV and 4100mV
11.33.13 #       <copper> right
11.33.28 #       <copper> that doesn't explain the awful battery life though, does it?
11.33.42 #       <TheSeven> it only explains maybe 10-15% of it
11.35.19 #       <copper> to be clear, Rockbox indicated that the iPod was fully charged
11.35.25 #       <TheSeven> judging from the graphs I second gevaerts_'s suspicion that this might in fact be a difference in power *consumption*, not battery capacity
11.35.27 #       <copper> well, maybe 99%
11.35.39 #       <copper> that would be insane
11.35.47 #       <TheSeven> i.e. something wrong with the build that you were running?
11.36.03 #       <copper> uh
11.36.18 #       <copper> I doubt it
11.36.33 #       <copper> it's pre-JdGordon's changes
11.36.46 #       <copper> I'm pretty sure it used to run fine on the HDD
11.37.09 #       <copper> we'll see when I'm able to test the original battery
11.37.09 #       <TheSeven> this was regular music playback with only occasional HDD spinup? which codec/bitrate?
11.37.20 #       <copper> lossyflac
11.37.28 #       <copper> i.e. ~440 kbps FLAC
11.37.43 #       <TheSeven> hm, I guess the modifications in that build were minor?
11.37.45 #       <JdGordon> what are you blaming on me this time?
11.37.57 #       <copper> JdGordon: nothing, that's the point :)
11.38.17 #       <TheSeven> copper: i.e. I can expect to see the same results with 440ff95?
11.38.27 #       <copper> what same results
11.38.28 #       <TheSeven> I might do a quick idle current test on that one...
11.39.02 #       <copper> TheSeven: I would expect you to get much better battery life with the same build and a good battery and the original HDD
11.39.35 #       <TheSeven> ...and I'm trying to prove that wrong and blame it on some software problem :)
11.39.41 #       <copper> hehe
11.39.44 #       <copper> go nuts
11.41.03 #       <copper> the "new" battery arrived fully discharged, don't you think that's a little bit suspicious?
11.41.22 #       <TheSeven> how deep discharged is that?
11.42.28 #       <copper> what?
11.42.40 #       <TheSeven> i.e. what voltage was it at when it arrived?
11.42.46 #       <copper> how would I know
11.43.08 #       <TheSeven> you probably don't, if you didn't measure it ;)
11.43.09 #       <copper> I can't remember if the iPod wouldn't turn on at all, or if it briefly showed the emcore screen before turning off
11.44.17 #       <TheSeven> so, assuming reasonable inner resistance, <3.5V... that's indeed a bit low
11.44.23 #       <copper> I'll just remind the room for the record, that I'm merely a user :P
11.44.49 #       <TheSeven> could also be that it just wasn't activated though and needs a brief charging pulse for it to come online?
11.45.06 #       <copper> english please
11.45.10 #       <copper> :P
11.45.44 #       <TheSeven> it's generally a good practice to "disable" a battery (through its internal protection circuitry) after production
11.46.03 #       <TheSeven> both to reduce self discharge by the protection circuitry, and to avoid short circuit accidents etc.
11.46.15 #       <copper> is the battery ribbon isolated?
11.46.52 #       <TheSeven> all but the part that goes into the connector should be
11.47.32 #       <copper> stupid question
11.48.33 #       <TheSeven> anyway, that kind of disabling would mean that the battery would appear dead to the ipod until you charge it a little bit, then it would connect again
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11.59.34 #       <TheSeven> copper: I guess all files that you did the battery bench with were encoded similarly?
11.59.47 #       <TheSeven> can you give me one of those files so that I can test how the codec behaves?
12.00.31 #       <TheSeven> (I will of course not use it beyond testing the codec, to avoid copyright infringement)
12.01.22 #       <copper> battery currently at 4.174 V
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12.02.26 #       <copper> TheSeven: it's just FLAC with 512 B blocks
12.03.02 #       <copper> 4.090 V
12.03.40 #       <copper> 93%
12.03.48 #       <copper> down from 100% in a matter of minutes
12.04.19 #       <copper> 90%
12.04.23 #       <copper> doing nothing
12.04.31 #       <TheSeven> don't trust the gauge in that area
12.04.46 #       <copper> ok, let's see if I can open this thing
12.07.13 #       <TheSeven> main menu idle current with current master: 22.80mA with USB connected (including 0.94mA charger quiescent current, and probably with the USB interface awake)
12.07.45 #       <copper> meaning?
12.08.45 #       <TheSeven> not much yet, just collecting data to analyze later
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12.30.01 #       <copper> charging the original battery, will start the battbench soon
12.30.35 #       <TheSeven> try to do the exact same thing with both batteries
12.30.46 #       <TheSeven> i.e. same build, same audio files, same settings, same theme, ...
12.30.49 #       <copper> yes
12.32.19 #       <copper> I'm surprised I didn't sever some vital organs
12.32.23 #       <copper> of the iPod, that is
12.32.36 #       <copper> but the case is pretty much toast
12.33.34 #       * TheSeven cripples USB detection so that the ipod powers down that ciruitry
12.33.51 #       <TheSeven> now we have 12.17mA main menu idle current with master
12.34.21 #       <TheSeven> copper: can you point me to similarly encoded audio files for a playback/codec test?
12.34.43 #       <copper> hold on
12.37.03 #       <copper> I'm uploading CC music
12.37.12 #       <TheSeven> thanks .)
12.37.25 #       <TheSeven> oops, that one lost an eye ;)
12.37.33 #       <copper> did it hurt?
12.38.10 #       <TheSeven> hm, only that smiley knows :P
12.39.55 #       <copper> TheSeven: https://outpost.fr/stuff/lossyflac.zip
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12.48.15 #       <TheSeven> hm, lossyflac seems to use next to no CPU time ;)
12.49.03 #       <TheSeven> average playback current is around 13.4mA with default settings and without headphones plugged, and ignoring disk spinning times
12.49.10 #       <TheSeven> that's just 1mA above idle
12.49.26 #       <TheSeven> how many mAh does your battery claim to have?
12.50.19 #       <copper> 580
12.50.27 #       <copper> battbench started with the original battery
12.50.40 #       <TheSeven> hm, that would be about 40h of playback time in theory
12.51.00 #       <TheSeven> now we're even down to 13.14mA
12.51.05 #       <copper> https://outpost.fr/tmp/3cz.txt
12.51.16 #       <copper> 25 hours with the original battery, the last time
12.51.28 #       <copper> we couldn't figure out if there was a regression or if it was just my battery
12.52.21 #       <TheSeven> ok, let me try that build
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12.59.24 #       <TheSeven> copper: same behavior with 6979a5b, so no regression there
12.59.42 #       <copper> same as what build?
12.59.46 #       <copper> ah
12.59.51 #       <copper> you mean no recent regression
13.00.03 #       <copper> I never thought there was :)
13.01.30 #       * TheSeven tries 440ff95
13.02.03 #       <copper> oh, so I did misunderstand
13.02.08 #       <copper> what build did you try first?
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13.05.21 #       <TheSeven> 440ff95 has similar currents as well
13.05.36 #       <TheSeven> slightly higher, more like 13.48-13.50mA
13.06.12 #       <TheSeven> copper: I'm basically comparing all builds that you did benches with against master to see if there are any differences at all
13.06.21 #       <TheSeven> so far I haven't found anything suspicious
13.09.56 #       <TheSeven> there are differences of ~500µA while the LCD is on, however they drop to 50-200µA with the LCD off... likely some UI CPU impact?
13.10.18 #       <TheSeven> 3e1c492 shows ~200µA lower power consumption during playback compared to 440ff95
13.11.24 #       <TheSeven> so we basically have a "regression" between those that causes 1-2% less battery runtime
13.11.49 #       <TheSeven> nothing really explain
13.12.00 #       <TheSeven> nothing really explains the vast difference in the benches though*
13.12.16 #       <TheSeven> so yes, looks like your battery isn't good
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13.31.47 #       <RockBoxNewB> Helloooo, my dear friends in RB. I have a quite technical question about the RB database, and I hope someone of you might know the answer
13.33.07 #       <RockBoxNewB> It's about the import/export modifications function basically. I'm one of the few people who use the RATINGS in Rockbox, meaning that I give a 0-10 rating to each of my songs on the device. Lately, I have been using TWO rockboxed DAPs, namely an iPod Classic and an iRiver H340. 
13.35.02 #       <RockBoxNewB> Thus, I need to migrate my ratings from one device to another. This works very fine using import/export mods. My question is now: does this function completely REPLACE the database on the target device, or does it ADD the ratings that were not present before ("synchronize" them, if you will)?
13.37.45 #       <pamaury> RockBoxNewB: to be honest I have no idea
13.38.39 #       <RockBoxNewB> Argh, I was afraid my question was too technical/special
13.39.08 #       <RockBoxNewB> We probably need one of the guys who CREATED this function to answer it
13.39.24 #       <TheSeven> ...or just have a look into the code
13.39.47 #       <pamaury> Well, not that many people actually use the database, let alone the ratings, and the code is kind of a nightmare but let me give a quick look
13.40.49 #       <RockBoxNewB> It would be simply awesome if I could use the devices simultaneously - meaning one at work and one at home - and then simply "merge" the databases into one that contains all the ratings I have given in the meantime
13.43.46 #       <pamaury> RockBoxNewB: looking briefly at the code, import will only *replace* the tags following tags: play count, rating, play time, last played, commit id, last elapsed, last offset
13.46.45 #       <RockBoxNewB> So to put this into a practical example: if I give 13 ratings on the H340, and 20 on the iPod at work, importing the file from the H340 to the iPod would "delete" the 20 ratings and bring the iPod to the same level as the H340, so that it also just has the 13 ratings?
13.47.35 #       <pamaury> I think so
13.47.41 #       <pamaury> best is probably to try though
13.49.05 #       <RockBoxNewB> Oh, that's a pity. But of course, I understand that it's not worth chaging/adding this function if only so few people use the database/ratings
13.51.41 #       <pamaury> actually some people would prefer to overwrite and some to merge, that would probably be two different functions
13.52.00 #       <pamaury> I guess it's not that hard to implement but someone needs to do it
13.54.45 #       <RockBoxNewB> I thought so, yes...but looking at the many things on the developers' to-do-list, I guess it would be difficult to find someone
13.54.54 #       <RockBoxNewB> I wish I knew more about programming myself
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14.00.10 #       <RockBoxNewB> I've got another question, which is probably more simple (I hope). Is it possible for me to somehow deactivate the PictureFlow function? As I use "Set song rating" quite often, I sometimes accidentally click "PictureFlow" in the context menu...causing my DAP to load it for more than half an hour and becoming unusable in that time. I don't use PictureFlow at all, so it would be great if I could remove that option somehow...
14.02.04 #       <RockBoxNewB> I guess "removing" something should be easier than modifying it, so there could be a way I hope
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14.13.37 #       <TheSeven> RockBoxNewB: well you could make it less of a problem by just deleting the pictureflow plugin altogether
14.13.47 #       <TheSeven> it would probably complain about a missing file if you hit that option then
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14.22.00 #       <TheSeven> there could probably even more usability friendly solutions involving shortcuts, but I don't really remember how all of that worked
14.31.59 #       <RockBoxNewB> ALright, I understand. How can I remove that plugin?
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14.43.10 #       <copper> ugh
14.43.17 #       <copper> battery at 3.842 V, 55%
14.43.42 #       <copper> benchmark running for about 2 hours
14.44.32 #       <copper> consistent with the previous benchmark with the new battery
14.47.39 #       <copper> ok, no point running the benchmark to the end
14.47.54 #       <RockBoxNewB> copper, so you replaced the battery of your device and it still doesn't last long?
14.48.12 #       <copper> it's not that
14.48.21 #       <copper> I replaced the HDD with an SD card adapter
14.48.29 #       <copper> and it seems to be drawing stupid amounts of power
14.48.44 #       <copper> well, depleting the battery super fast
14.48.56 #       <copper> ok
14.48.57 #       <copper> game over
14.49.43 #       <RockBoxNewB> Right, I understand. Might I ask what device you're using? I've been toying with the idea of using an SD card/SSD adapter with my iRiver H340... but if it's killing the battery in such a short time, there's no sense in doing that of course
14.50.21 #       <copper> RockBoxNewB: http://www.tarkan.info/store with a 128 GB SDXC card from Lexar
14.50.49 #       <copper> only my Lexar cards would even work with emCORE
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14.53.20 #       <RockBoxNewB> So it's an iPod, right?
14.56.14 #       <copper> iPod Classic (last model)
14.56.53 #       <TheSeven> RockBoxNewB: just remove .rockbox/rocks/demos/pictureflow.rock
14.57.34 #       <TheSeven> copper: the adapter can't possibly drain the battery while idle, because we're physically shutting off power to it
14.57.50 #       <TheSeven> so something must be keeping the disk "spinning" from rockbox's point of view, if the adapter is indeed the culprit
14.58.08 #       <TheSeven> typically I'd expect such an adapter + SD card to consume significantly less power than an HDD
14.58.59 #       <TheSeven> flac is of course a codec that has a fairly high bitrate, so it reads from the disk fairly often, but the impact should still be fairly small
14.59.11 #       <RockBoxNewB> Thanks TheSeven, I'll try that right away! [By the way, how can I do what you always do, write a message and get my nickname highlighted in red?]
14.59.17 #       <TheSeven> unless the throughput of that adapter is awful, causing it to take a very long time to fill the RAM buffer
15.00.05 #       <TheSeven> RockBoxNewB: you just did that, this happens automatically if a nickname appears in a message
15.00.17 #       <copper> no, the I/O activity indicator lights up very little
15.00.26 #       <copper> anyway, I've lost interest
15.00.27 #       <TheSeven> (hint: you can typically auto-complete nicknames with the tab key)
15.00.32 #       <copper> my iPod is dead to me
15.00.42 #       <copper> brb
15.01.24 #       <TheSeven> copper: can you do some quick checks in the debugging menu?
15.01.46 #       <RockBoxNewB> Really? Cool, I didn't know that because it's not highlighted on my screen XD
15.02.17 #       <TheSeven> copper: start playback, then go to system => debug => view buffering thread
15.03.21 #       <TheSeven> the usefl bar empties over time during playback, then (fairly quickly) refills. tell me how long it takes to fill
15.05.07 #       <RockBoxNewB> Auto-completing nicknames doesn't seem to be working, however
15.05.14 #       <TheSeven> it should go empty once every 60MB worth of music, which is probably some 15 minutes of flac
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15.07.03 #       <TheSeven> filling that bar takes about 4 seconds (including 1.5 seconds of disk spinup) on my classic
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15.07.30 #       <TheSeven> your CF mod might be a bit slower, but it should still be below 30 seconds or so
15.07.57 #       <TheSeven> (if you don't want for the buffer to drain, you can skip around by turning the wheel to force it to load new data)
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15.26.54 #       <RockBoxNewB> TheSeven, I just tried what you suggested and removed pictureflow.rock. If I click on "PictureFlow" in the context menu accidentally now, all it does is say "can't open pictureflow.rock" and goes back to WPS. You're right that there's probably more usability-friendly stuff one could do, but your solution is completely sufficient for now! Thanks!
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15.54.53 #       <copper> eh, apparently Amazon will take my SDXC card for a refund
15.55.16 #       <copper> good thing I thought to check
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16.51.11 #       <RockBoxNewB> copper, you're lucky there about the refund ;-) How much did that card cost, anyway?
16.51.20 #       <copper> about 100 euros
16.51.34 #       <copper> not lucky, Amazon customer service is stellar
16.52.01 #       <copper> they always refund / exchange / re-ship without asking questions
16.52.05 #       <copper> and fast, too
16.52.22 #       <copper> they figure there's money to be made with returning customers
16.52.58 #       <TheSeven> copper: I've made some very different experiences with them as well
16.53.15 #       <TheSeven> basically they behave fine as long as you buy directly from them
16.53.41 #       <copper> well yeah when you buy from a market place seller, you have to deal with the seller first
16.53.47 #       <TheSeven> but if e.g. a marketplace seller screws up a warranty case, they just don't care at all and don't even let you give that marketplace seller a bad rating
16.54.10 #       <TheSeven> "bought longer than 90 days ago => we don't care AT ALL"
16.55.19 #       <TheSeven> over here in germany if a customer returns a broken device within 6 months after buying it, the seller must repair or refund it, unless he can prove that the buyer misused it
16.55.48 #       <TheSeven> I had such a case with a rooted SGS3 phone, with the infamous superbrick bug
16.56.36 #       <TheSeven> the samsung warranty repair center said that it's not covered by warranty (not because of the rooting, it was too broken to even figure that out, but because of a harmless little dent in the frame)
16.56.50 #       <copper> we'll see how they handle this
16.57.10 #       <TheSeven> however amazon was legally obliged to cover the repair or refund
16.57.39 #       <RockBoxNewB> TheSeven, haha, I'm also German so I should know exactly what you're talking about XD
16.58.01 #       <TheSeven> they did refund it after all, but it was a huge mess, had to call them a dozen times because they couldn't agree on whether the repair center has to send it back to me so I can send it back to amazon, or if the repair center can do that directly, and if so who has to tell them, etc
16.58.43 #       <TheSeven> in this case they didn't even refuse to refund it, they were just terribly clueless on *how* to do it
16.59.22 #       <TheSeven> copper: can you please, before you return it, do what I said above, as a final step of diagnostics?
16.59.31 #       <TheSeven> (measure how long it takes to fill the audio buffer)
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17.00.10 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> copper: start playback, then go to system => debug => view buffering thread
17.00.10 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> the usefl bar empties over time during playback, then (fairly quickly) refills. tell me how long it takes to fill
17.00.10 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> it should go empty once every 60MB worth of music, which is probably some 15 minutes of flac
17.00.10 DBUG    Enqueued KICK TheSeven
17.00.10 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> filling that bar takes about 4 seconds (including 1.5 seconds of disk spinup) on my classic
17.00.10 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> your CF mod might be a bit slower, but it should still be below 30 seconds or so
17.00.12 #       <TheSeven> <TheSeven> (if you don't want for the buffer to drain, you can skip around by turning the wheel to force it to load new data)
17.01.22 #       <copper> ugh
17.01.32 #       <copper> I've already reformatted the card
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17.03.28 #       <copper> hold on
17.05.33 #       <copper> PANIC
17.05.36 #       <copper> error formatting hard drive
17.13.13 #       <copper> sorry but I'm done screwing around with that thing
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21.48.28 #       <TheSeven> pamaury, funman, gevaerts: is anyone of you aware of issues with the synopsys/designware/s3c6400x/nano2g/ipod6g/amsv2/... USB core and TX transfers on multiple endpoints at the same time?
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21.48.49 #       <TheSeven> do we have any reports of that (windows enumeration trouble, HID issues, ...) on the AMS platforms with that core?
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21.56.50 #       <bertrik> yes, there are issues as far as I know, but I don't know the details
21.56.58 #       <bertrik> with AMSv2 for example
21.58.52 #       <TheSeven> do these AMSv2 targets have HID enabled?
21.59.08 #       <TheSeven> and if so, does HID interaction during file transfers cause bus freezes?
21.59.21 #       <TheSeven> (i.e. that old nano2g problem)
22.00.43 #       <bertrik> I don't know
22.01.10 #       <TheSeven> steffengy1: fyi ^
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22.27.46 #       <gevaerts> TheSeven: very vague here, but I do seem to remember HID being disabled on some AMS things due to ussyes
22.27.49 #       <gevaerts> *issues
22.33.45 #       <TheSeven> gevaerts: the ipod classic windows issues seem to be a clash between EP0 and MSC data being transmitted at the same time and getting mixed up somewhere
22.33.54 #       <TheSeven> the fifo management of this old version of the core is a bit weird
22.44.09 #       <TheSeven> to make matters even more confusing, there are newer versions of this core (which often share the same driver), which have dedicated endpoint FIFOs, solving most of this mess
22.56.33 #       <Nei> hi, should the 6g ipod be chargeable from firewire? it doesnt :/
22.59.36 #       <TheSeven> I'm not sure, but I guess no
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23.01.02 #       <soap> I thought they removed FW entirely eventually.  5th couldn't sync over it and 6th couldn't charge I thought.
23.01.08 #       <Nei> the apple page claims it should still charce
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23.01.11 #       <Nei> not sync though
23.01.17 #       <soap> then my memory is faulty.
23.01.26 #       <Nei> but I guess the firmware might need to implement it somehow too?
23.02.25 #       <TheSeven> the only way it could support that if there would be a stepdown to the USB Vbus pin internally, which I doubt
23.02.29 #       <TheSeven> where does apple claim that?
23.06.41 #       <TheSeven> anyway, there's little point in charging these things using firewire...
23.06.42 #       <pamaury> TheSeven: somehow yes, it seems HID or EP0 traffic can kill MSC
23.07.02 #       <pamaury> but I never knew if it was because of bad programming of the fifo or something else
23.07.28 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: which confirms my theory that this isn't so much flaky hardware (on the S5L series) after all, but rather a broken driver... just broken in what way?
23.07.59 #       <TheSeven> this thing behaves perfectly fine with emcore/umsboot nowadays, although I haven't stress tested EP clashes with that (might be worth a try?)
23.08.33 #       <Nei> mhm, I thought I found it on some official apple KB but now google only results in https://discussions.apple.com/message/15113928#15113928
23.08.41 #       <Nei> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1384
23.09.27 #       <Nei> and this page http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/ipod-faq/ipods-charge-and-sync-firewire-usb2.html but thats not exactly apple official I guess
23.09.30 #       <pamaury> TheSeven: can you identify the problem ? is this is bad fifo setup ?
23.10.04 #       <TheSeven> "Note: iPod nano (4th generation and later) doesn't support FireWire and will not charge from any FireWire-based power source (including the iPod Hi-Fi)." this suggests that the nano 2g/3g still do
23.10.13 #       <TheSeven> and the classic is basically the same generation as the nano 3g
23.10.26 #       <TheSeven> the nano 2g explicitly stated something about 24V on the back
23.10.43 #       <TheSeven> the classic indeed also says "5-30V 1A"
23.10.46 #       <Nei> that's why I thought it might work but at least it doesnt in rockbox/emcore
23.11.01 #       <TheSeven> so there might after all indeed be a stepdown converter somewhere, which generates the USB voltage internally
23.11.22 #       <Nei> I still have an old firewire ipod so I thought I could reuse the power supply
23.11.39 #       <Nei> well, minor issue anyway
23.11.44 #       <Nei> just curious
23.11.46 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: I haven't found the root cause yet, steffengy1 is looking into it. the new driver seems to handle it better for a still unknown reason
23.12.01 #       <TheSeven> Nei: now you're making me curious as well though ;)
23.12.17 #       <Nei> =)
23.15.14 Ctcp    Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23.15.14 #       * TheSeven wonders where he put that old ipod classic mainboard
23.15.39 #       <TheSeven> if someone gives me an ipod firewire cable, I can look into it ;)
23.18.42 #       <pamaury> fixing those usb drivers would be awesome
23.18.49 #       <user890104> The iPod Nano 4th Gen no longer charges from the 12 V supply on the Firewire pins. If you tie Pins 25 and 27 together and then connect a 10 kOhm resistor to ±5 volts to pins 23 and 15 (or 16), it will charge. If you don't tie Pins 25 and 27 together, it won't charge.
23.18.59 #       <user890104> http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml
23.19.09 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: yes, it's a major blocker for the classic. if we can get that fixed, we can finally get rid of emcore altogether
23.20.07 #       <TheSeven> user890104: shorting 25+27 is USB charging spec simulation
23.20.19 #       <user890104> ah...
23.20.24 #       <Nei> if you were next door I could lend you mine
23.20.28 #       <TheSeven> which supports the theory that this is after all just a stepdown to vbus
23.20.48 #       <TheSeven> which also means that it should charge even without shorting those pins in emcore/rockbox
23.21.24 #       <TheSeven> hm, the 10k pullup of vbus puzzles me
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23.22.08 #       <TheSeven> and another pullup to USB ground... that just doesn't make any sense at all
23.23.57 #       <user890104> a divider?
23.24.30 #       <TheSeven> if I interpret that correctly they just connect firewire plus to GND through 10k
23.24.34 #       <TheSeven> which is probably just useless
23.25.12 #       <TheSeven> Nei: how long have you tried to charge it through firewire?
23.25.24 #       <TheSeven> it might be possible that it charges and just doesn't report it
23.25.49 #       <Nei> TheSeven: well that is true, I gave up on it after a few minutes of not reporting
23.25.59 #       <Nei> I shall see if it silently charges
23.26.27 #       <TheSeven> if it does, I'll walk you through some GPIO analysis to figure out how to detect that properly
23.27.32 #       <TheSeven> if you go to system => debug => view I/O ports, does anything change if you plug it into firewire power?
23.28.29 #       * TheSeven wonders if the diagmode disassembly could provide some more insight
23.30.11 #       <Nei> in debug.battery, the voltage is dropping with firewire charge plugged in
23.30.41 #       <TheSeven> not a good sign, but not necessarily a bad one either
23.30.52 #       <TheSeven> what's the battery voltage right now?
23.31.09 #       <TheSeven> it will only charge if it's below some threshold (somewhere between 4.0 and 4.1V I think)
23.31.42 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: I have a patch that basically implants emcore's working usb driver into rockbox and adds quite a bit of required glue logic. however it doesn't work yet (hard freezes somewhere, likely in IRQ mode)
23.32.03 #       <TheSeven> if you're interested in having a look at that, I could send you a patch
23.32.15 #       <pamaury> TheSeven: can you post it to gerrit ?
23.32.41 #       <TheSeven> it isn't quite ready for that yet. logf/splashf's scattered all over the place etc.
23.32.47 #       <Nei> gpio11 changes to 0 with charger plugged in
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23.33.07 #       <TheSeven> Nei: so 30 => 00?
23.33.22 #       <Nei> thats right
23.33.26 #       <pamaury> TheSeven: that's not problem, you can update new revisions, and that's still a great way to visualise it
23.33.32 #       <Nei> couldnt see anything else changing
23.33.40 #       <pamaury> but otherwise just send me the patch, I'll still interested ;)
23.33.50 #       <Nei> batt is 3.0 now down to 2.9
23.33.59 #       <TheSeven> Nei: hm, it changes to 10 for USB charging
23.34.04 #       <Nei> so it should charge
23.34.05 #       <TheSeven> we might have found something here...
23.34.36 #       <TheSeven> hm, it should already have powered off at 2.9
23.34.45 #       <TheSeven> probably quite a bit above that
23.35.44 #       <Nei> err sory my bad
23.35.48 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: http://paste.pm/h90.patch
23.35.49 #       <Nei> 3.9 down to 3.8
23.35.57 #       <TheSeven> pamaury: do with it whatever you like :)
23.36.24 #       <Nei> I guess that makes more sense;)
23.36.30 #       <Nei> 66% or something
23.36.47 #       <TheSeven> yes, that should charge...
23.37.05 #       <Nei> it will charge on usb
23.37.35 #       <pamaury> Ok i'll check that later, now I'm working on the Sansa View
23.37.38 #       <TheSeven> Nei: can you try changing settings => general settings => system => battery => charge during usb connection to "force"?
23.37.59 #       <TheSeven> it's probably waiting for USB bus activity which it will never see in this case
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23.42.54 #       <Nei> ok I will watch it
23.43.15 #       <Nei> the status screen says discharging but the voltage delta -0min reads 0,003
23.43.26 #       <Nei> so that seems to indicate charging after all
23.43.35 #       <TheSeven> the delta is a bit small
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23.46.25 #       <Nei> mhm well it's weird the delta is consistently small
23.46.36 #       <Nei> 0,004, 0,002, 0,003
23.46.42 #       <Nei> but stays positive
23.46.55 #       <TheSeven> suggests that it is *using* firewire power, but not charging
23.49.23 #       <Nei> ah
23.49.29 #       <Nei> interesting theory
23.49.38 #       <Nei> funny for it to do /that/
23.49.54 #       <Nei> after unplugging it did a -0,040 in an instant
23.50.07 #       <TheSeven> seems plausible
23.51.03 #       <Nei> ok usb charger is like 0,013
23.51.13 #       <Nei> mhm. dang
23.51.26 #       <Nei> uses firewire power but doesnt charge, lol
23.51.51 #       <TheSeven> hm, our charger detection so far uses a bit in GPIO12
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23.55.18 #       <TheSeven> the LTC4066 chip is on some higher bits of GPIO11
23.55.55 #       <Nei> sorry I wont be a big help on the techical side
23.56.17 #       <TheSeven> 80 means disable charging
23.56.24 #       <TheSeven> 40 means fast charging
23.56.59 #       <TheSeven> those are commands
23.57.05 #       <TheSeven> seems like 20 is feedback for "charging"
23.57.37 #       <Nei> I see, you have to tell it to charge 
23.57.56 #       <TheSeven> er, no, that's "external power present" inverted from what it looks like
23.58.09 #       <TheSeven> and 10 is "charging" inverted - as least as far as USB is concerned
23.58.22 #       <TheSeven> (we should actually implement those, rockbox currently doesn't use that information)
23.58.40 #       <Nei> ah
23.58.43 #       <TheSeven> this seems to indicate that the LTC actually tried to charge...
23.58.59 #       <Nei> so what is 00 inverted