--- Log for 14.06.115 Server: asimov.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 month and 17 days ago 00.20.59 Nick Electricguy_ is now known as Electricguy (~quassel@78-69-6-109-no123.tbcn.telia.com) 00.38.55 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.42.48 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 00.45.03 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 00.52.34 # <[Saint]> jtdesigns01: I'm not sure how you think the DooM plugin works, on any device, but we don't have a keyboard...no. 00.52.50 # <[Saint]> (think about it) 00.53.30 # <[Saint]> If we displayed a keyboard, you'd still need to use physical keys to navigate it, and it would block the entire screen on most devices. 00.53.57 # HAHA, ok fine... keypad. there, are you satisfied? 00.54.21 # :D 00.54.26 # LOL 00.54.30 # <[Saint]> So you're asking "does the DooM plugin allow user input"? 00.54.34 # <[Saint]> Ummmm..yes? 00.55.09 # no, does the sansa fuze+ have a good keypad for *playing* doom 00.56.16 # <[Saint]> Depends on your definition of "good". I guess. Consensus says no. 00.56.44 # <[Saint]> That's true of any target. 00.57.25 # you mean keypads are not good for doom on any target? 00.58.16 # <[Saint]> I do. I'm guessing you've not tried it on device? 00.58.34 # <[Saint]> The lowmem targets won't even make it past the first few levels, so, there's that, too. 00.58.51 # <[Saint]> Its more of a novelty. 00.59.00 # no, i am getting my fuze+ tommorow. 00.59.04 # <[Saint]> Ah. 00.59.31 # well, the fuze+ does have 64MB of ram, which should be enough 01.00.02 # <[Franklin]> for what? 01.00.10 # <[Franklin]> dark forces? 01.00.25 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01.01.15 # DooM 01.01.19 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@83.175.90.24) 01.01.55 # and dark forces too..... hopefully......... someday........... 01.01.59 # <[Franklin]> heh 01.02.10 # <[Franklin]> well, if you want some inspiration, check out the xworld plugin 01.02.32 # xworld? hm, i will check it out in the sim. just a sec 01.02.44 # <[Franklin]> you need the data files... 01.02.55 # <[Saint]> The main issue, as you'll find out, is controls. 01.02.59 # <[Saint]> Or lack of them. 01.03.04 # <[Franklin]> from an original DOS installation, of course ;P 01.03.16 # <[Franklin]> which is definitely where I got my copy from 01.03.26 # <[Saint]> So you'll be getting your ass kicked, trying to get away to a safe place so you can stand in a corner and change weapons safely. 01.03.29 # <[Saint]> etc. 01.03.30 # <[Saint]> so on. 01.03.47 # <[Saint]> DAP kays do not lend themselves well to playing DooM. 01.04.05 # <[Franklin]> or any game requiring 6+ buttons 01.04.10 # <[Saint]> right. 01.04.50 # well, at least it will be a little fun on long boring car rides. 01.05.00 # <[Franklin]> essentially the largest number of buttons before entering a UX nightmare is 5 01.05.16 # <[Saint]> Smartphones _destroyed_ the DAP market. 01.06.09 # i am a old hardware geek, you might say 01.07.04 # i have a PowerMac G3 beige (oldworld) running Ubuntu 15.04 as a server in my basement 01.08.11 # fuze+ and Doom, hmm if the player was tilted sideways so fire and a strafe were vol- and vol+, and power was used for menu, this would allow sufficient inputs to over come the touch pad's absence of multi touch support. aka only one button on the fuze+'s touch pad may be activated at any time 01.09.30 # <[Saint]> How big could we make the window if we rotated it 45 degrees, lol? 01.09.40 # <[Saint]> 80x80px? 01.09.53 # it shouldnt be too hard to reprogram the keybindings at least. tilting the display, IDK. probably hard. 01.10.05 # okay start ass "rotated" 01.10.10 # <[Saint]> keybindings is harder than you'd think. 01.10.12 # *smart* 01.11.23 # sorry, i didnt mean that to be a joke. i seriously meant rotating. not actually tilting the device. 01.11.29 # <[Saint]> But, yeah, foolsh just touched on something I forgot about. 01.11.51 # <[Saint]> On the _other_ targets where this is a bloody nightmare, we can get multiple keypresses. 01.11.57 # <[Saint]> On this thing, though, ...well. 01.12.12 # <[Saint]> That, and the touchpad is quite literally a massive pile of shit. 01.12.12 # :D 01.12.15 # why would keybindings be so hard? 01.12.15 # <[Saint]> Its terrible. 01.12.38 # really? 01.12.40 # why? 01.12.48 # <[Saint]> jtdesigns01: because all the key slots are full and if you move one you've got to juggle all the others around it. 01.12.56 # oh. 01.13.16 # dont make me regret my purchase yet. 01.13.23 # LOL, Just kidding. 01.13.37 # <[Saint]> You won't. Unless for some ungodly reason you purchased it for DooM alone. 01.13.49 # <[Saint]> Not knowing about the FUCKING TERRIBLE controls wasn't your fault. 01.14.11 # why are they hard to use? 01.14.12 # <[Saint]> Its not something they seem to like to make public. 01.15.21 # and actually, doom (and the other plugins) _was_ a big reason why i did get it 01.15.39 # * foolsh would rather have the old plain fuze with physical buttons over the fuze+ 01.15.39 # <[Saint]> To suit out needs a bit better we took a really bad touchpad, and carved it up into a 3x3 grid, so on top of it already being terrible, you have to remember that the original key markings are now meaningless and don't actually show the right division between touch areas. 01.15.48 # <[Saint]> ANd the sensitivity is just plain awful. 01.16.22 # <[Saint]> though that can be adjusted to suit the user, somewhat. 01.16.39 # there are settings for adjustable sensitivity now though, so it's a bit better than terrible 01.16.52 # hmmm. where are they? 01.17.06 # <[Saint]> probably not active in the SIM. 01.17.21 # oh. 01.17.32 # yeah, its in the system options menu on the actual target 01.18.20 # <[Saint]> The Fuze+ is a great little target, hampered by a really terrible (like, ...why?) screen, and even more terrible controls. 01.18.55 # the screen is bad too? 01.19.22 # <[Saint]> Its just at "why did they bother" type level of insanity. 01.19.39 # what do you mean? 01.19.39 # * foolsh has fancied the thought of hacking a physical game pad to the gpio-s or i2c bus some how 01.21.02 # <[Saint]> jtdesigns01: in my world it would be much better suited to have monochromatic display, rather than the minuscule full colour display. 01.21.16 # <[Saint]> I mean, yay, 96x96px album art! 01.21.22 Quit CustosLimen (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01.22.00 # <[Saint]> "lets see what song is up next ... 01.22.10 # <[Saint]> "Ohhhh, squiggly blod! I LOVE those guys!" 01.22.15 # <[Saint]> *blob 01.22.55 # haha 01.22.57 # creative zen's screen would be more spacious and the keypad more inclined to "gameplay" 01.23.15 # than a fuze+'s 01.23.21 Join CustosLimen [0] (~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n) 01.23.33 # <[Saint]> Creative make some really nice players. 01.23.50 # <[Saint]> Slightly obscure for my neck of the woods though, we never see them here. 01.24.43 # well, too late now. anyway, i got a good bargain on it ($20 USD for an 8GB plus a 4GB MicroSD) (from a friend:D) 01.24.58 # <[Saint]> that is a decent price, indeed. 01.25.22 # anyway. i gotta go now. see ya guys. 01.29.40 Join akaWolf1 [0] (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) 01.29.51 Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01.29.51 Quit kvieta (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01.29.54 Nick akaWolf1 is now known as akaWolf (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) 01.30.28 Join kvieta [0] (~kvieta@149.255.110.134) 01.31.58 # yeah you'll never find a zen at that price 01.33.13 Quit ender1 (Quit: You know you created god in your image when he hates the same people you do.) 01.34.48 Quit pablo_pi_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 01.35.40 Quit y4n (Quit: 6,000,000 ways to die — choose one.) 01.36.25 Join pablo_pi [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 01.37.31 Quit jtdesigns01 (Remote host closed the connection) 01.42.58 # <[Franklin]> $20? 01.43.06 # <[Franklin]> nice 01.43.49 # * [Franklin] should try getting xworld to work on monochrome targets 01.44.55 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 39.0/20150611135623]) 01.50.15 Quit Electricguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 01.57.15 Quit [Franklin] (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01.59.13 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com) 02.05.32 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 02.08.18 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 02.10.32 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 02.10.37 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02.27.17 Quit CustosLimen (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 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(~ii@213.55.176.254) 13.25.54 Join munch [0] (~munch@unaffiliated/munch) 14.01.51 Quit Guest33771 () 14.16.41 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14.29.31 Join pablo_pi_ [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 14.30.25 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 14.32.33 Quit pablo_pi (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14.39.15 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.48.07 Nick mshzzz is now known as mshathlonxp (msh@89.254.156.66) 15.29.50 Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15.46.57 Quit jtdesigns02 (Quit: jtdesigns02) 15.49.22 Join jtdesigns01 [0] (~Thunderbi@c-68-40-48-86.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) 16.05.06 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 16.12.18 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16.16.14 Quit JanC (Quit: 'k Zie weg) 16.16.34 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 16.25.22 # does rockbox support earbuds with remotes and microphones? 16.39.17 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.55.25 Join ParkerR [0] (~Parker@unaffiliated/parkerr) 16.57.30 # i think that would depend partially on the hardware; if the device never supported it, then i wouldn't think it possible to just add that through software. i'm not sure how they work though, maybe all it requires is a microphone and the rest is software? (analyzing specially-crafted audio from the mic, generated by the remote?) 16.58.01 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@pD9EE8D4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 16.59.02 # I think it would only work on devices with a microphone compatible jack. 17.14.03 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 17.14.56 Join mshzzz [0] (msh@89.254.156.66) 17.18.46 Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 17.21.47 # <[Saint]> jtdesigns01: yes, and no, mostly no. 17.23.01 Nick mshzzz is now known as mshathlonxp (msh@89.254.156.66) 17.41.28 Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) 17.57.34 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18.10.17 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 18.15.59 # <[Franklin]> where is LCD_PIXELFORMAT defined? 18.16.28 # <[Franklin]> the stride format, rather 18.33.34 Join rela [0] (~x@p200300668404B700610883DFB08B664C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 18.33.42 Quit rela (Changing host) 18.33.42 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 18.34.30 # <[Franklin]> ok, just got pacbox up and running on clip+ 18.34.40 # <[Franklin]> scaling needs some work, but it largely works 18.38.21 # <[Saint]> I imagine telling a ghost from a pac pellet is nigh impossible at that resolution. 18.39.09 Quit Cinos (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18.39.19 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.39.36 # <[Franklin]> not totally 18.39.53 # <[Franklin]> the screen isn't /that/ bad 18.40.17 # <[Franklin]> only 128x64 18.40.40 Join Cinos [0] (Cinos@cinos.pw) 18.54.28 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@d83-183-134-99.cust.tele2.se) 18.59.18 # hUM 18.59.35 # You could get a minimal roguelike to work at that resolution. 19.01.31 # <[Saint]> That's one game I'm truly surprised hasn't been *.rock'ed 19.02.11 # <[Saint]> We have something far far more complex that I'm willing to bet most people don't even know about...bu tno rogue*but no 19.02.17 # <[Saint]> bah 19.02.22 # <[Saint]> (frotz, FWIW) 19.02.45 # I'm getting a device for the specific purpuose of running rockbox on it. 19.02.58 # (Listening to music too but heh, that's secondary) 19.04.01 # <[Saint]> iPod Classic. 19.04.05 # <[Saint]> (...that is all) 19.04.20 # <[Saint]> Or a Video, if you can find one. 19.06.36 # Meh 19.08.28 # Hum 19.08.56 # The iPod was really one pertinent and positive to humanity product 19.09.11 # I don't really like apple but I have to give them credit for that 19.09.14 # and the apple II 19.09.24 # <[Saint]> Its virtually impossible to find a better built player. 19.09.30 # <[Saint]> (which is also supported) 19.09.56 # <[Saint]> The various Sansas are essentially disposable plastic garbage. 19.10.04 # <[Saint]> (this author's opinion) 19.10.15 # Did they totally kill off their ipod produciton? 19.10.23 # <[Saint]> They did, yes. Ages ago. 19.10.31 # <[Franklin]> yes 19.10.32 # I vaguely remember an iphone without phone when they launched the iphone 19.10.40 # <[Saint]> the iPod Classic was a pleasant surprise actually. 19.10.48 # <[Franklin]> great for games, actually 19.10.52 # Since I wasn't really caring I had thought they kept doing that. 19.10.55 # <[Franklin]> until the buttons break :P 19.11.42 # <[Saint]> Not if you're proficient with surface mount soldering. :)) 19.11.51 # <[Saint]> and/or have a reflow station. 19.12.16 # <[Franklin]> just don't get too into the game, and you're fine 19.12.18 # <[Franklin]> heh 19.12.41 # <[Saint]> FWIW, its not like the sansas are any better in this regard. 19.12.50 # <[Saint]> if hold or volume breaks there, you're just as fucked. 19.12.50 # FWIW? 19.12.57 # <[Saint]> For WHat Its Worth. 19.13.00 # Oh 19.13.03 # Thanks. 19.13.06 # <[Franklin]> at least ipods don't crack on the front 19.13.21 # <[Saint]> 2/3/4G do. 19.13.25 # <[Franklin]> that's happened to me on multiple sansas 19.13.41 # <[Franklin]> 5G and later were great 19.13.55 # So, here is what's left of Apple's great music empire: https://i.imgur.com/0AZSVY4.png 19.14.00 # <[Saint]> the clear plastic scratch protector that isn't a scratch protector gets hairline cracks and looks weird. 19.14.08 # <[Saint]> 5G+ is the same, but, a lot better. 19.14.35 # <[Saint]> AFAIK they still sell the Nano line. 19.14.46 # I had a nano, a long time ago. 19.14.54 # <[Saint]> Last to die off, and /maybe/ the shuffle(s). 19.15.07 # A 2G, a long time ago. 19.15.08 # <[Saint]> The Nano 1G is fricken' GREAT. 19.15.19 # <[Saint]> Its just hampered by its virtually unusable storage. 19.15.26 # Oh, the iPod touch is still alive. 19.15.39 # <[Saint]> (the nano 1G is basically a NAND flash iPod Video) 19.16.10 # Hum, there's still a nano and a shuffle. 19.16.27 # <[Saint]> Rather hilariously, iOS9 gave us a way in for Rockbox on non-jailbroken devices. 19.16.41 # 2GB Ah ah ah ah ah 19.16.43 # <[Saint]> I sincerely doubt it'll happen, but, it /could/. 19.16.58 # <[Franklin]> [Saint]: how? 19.17.19 # <[Saint]> [Franklin]: xcode no longer requires paying a developers license fee and can sideload 19.17.31 # Oh, that's nice. 19.17.41 # <[Saint]> Long time coming, but, yeah. 19.18.36 # <[Franklin]> about time 19.26.54 # I'm having a look at the dev doc, making plugins seems pretty accessible, that's cool. 19.34.23 # [Franklin]: Did you see the 1-pixel pacman on hackaday blog? It's good for some inspiration 19.49.24 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 20.01.05 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:24f:63ff:fe01:4900) 20.29.20 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20.39.22 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.42.45 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 21.12.56 Join timmac [0] (~llamachka@96.44.147.34) 21.13.06 Part timmac 21.20.37 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Quit.) 21.20.56 Join [Saint] [0] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) 21.25.57 Quit [Franklin] (Remote host closed the connection) 21.29.16 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21.30.21 Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 22.05.31 Join pablo_pi [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.08.50 Quit pablo_pi_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22.11.17 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) 22.11.57 # * foolsh waits patiently for gerrit to get updated (twiddles thumbs, watches grass grow, learns a second language) 22.13.02 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving) 22.14.51 # <[Saint]> The problem of needing a zagor is one that is difficult to overcome. 22.15.04 # <[Saint]> Though I suspect any Stenberg may do. 22.15.48 # <[Saint]> Though no blame can lie there. We all knew this was coming, and all of us gleefully ignored it. 22.17.45 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 22.20.02 Join pablo_pi_ [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.23.47 Quit pablo_pi (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22.24.57 Join pablo_pi [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.25.08 Quit pablo_pi_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22.30.00 Join pablo_pi_ [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.30.20 # * foolsh wonders if github was good enough for curl, then why not entertain the idea of putting rockbox over there as well 22.31.08 Quit pablo_pi (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22.32.20 # Remember Sourceforge. (not a dev) 22.35.03 Join pablo_pi [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.35.55 Quit pablo_pi_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22.39.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 22.40.06 Join pablo_pi_ [0] (~pablo@190.148.178.33) 22.41.28 Quit pablo_pi (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22.48.58 # <[Saint]> foolsh: we do have an active mirror. 22.49.28 # <[Saint]> the main "problem" is github's fucking asinine pull/merge request system. 22.50.00 # <[Saint]> gerrit works a lot better in this regard, but then we face the problem we're facing now. 22.59.56 # Rockbox development isn't too active anymore these days anyway. 23.00.16 # * bluebrother wonders if anybody thought of another attempt of a devcon again 23.00.45 Quit shamus (Quit: chaos reigns within reflect repent and reboot order shall return) 23.01.32 # <[Saint]> I'm not sure what the basis behind that statement is 23.02.13 # <[Saint]> development is waning, sure. But we're essentially cutting any interested parties off at the pass right now, as it were. 23.05.46 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.06.56 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.07.57 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.08.04 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.10.44 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.10.47 Quit y4n (Quit: coob ov vood?) 23.10.51 Join mwfc [0] (~mwfc@hephaestus.mwfc.info) 23.14.38 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23.16.03 Quit shamus (Quit: chaos reigns within reflect repent and reboot order shall return) 23.19.21 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.19.27 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23.20.08 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.25.50 Quit shamus (Quit: chaos reigns within reflect repent and reboot order shall return) 23.26.33 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.27.26 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@d83-183-134-99.cust.tele2.se) 23.28.00 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 23.30.02 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.33.42 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.34.00 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.35.24 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 23.38.15 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.39.28 Quit derf (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23.39.38 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.40.27 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.40.36 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.41.17 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.41.26 Join derf [0] (~derf@static-108-18-126-14.washdc.fios.verizon.net) 23.42.11 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.42.46 Quit Jinx (Quit: reboot) 23.42.58 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.44.37 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.44.44 # well, i`m here; and, though i might have no experience with embedded devices up till now, i love getting modern, usable code to run on things that have no business running it (like mp3 players) (or a super old PowerMac G3 beige :P) 23.45.50 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.47.04 # <[Saint]> We bought one of those new. >.> 23.47.18 # <[Saint]> It was about $2800, shipped, IIRC. 23.47.25 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.47.49 # <[Saint]> Got tossed unceremoniously in a dumpster ages ago. 23.48.08 # <[Saint]> (yeah - I do regret that, if anyone's wondering) 23.48.27 # i got mine free as junk and now its running Ubuntu 15.04 as a server in my basement 23.48.44 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 39.0/20150611135623]) 23.49.03 # (and its speed actually is pretty good) 23.49.26 # Not really interesting for #rockbox though 23.50.54 # oh woops, moving to #rockbox-community. sorry 23.53.37 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 23.54.41 # PowerMac G3 is plenty fast for a home server, but also needs a factor more energy than what you actually need for that on modern hardware :P 23.55.23 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.55.45 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.56.22 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.57.06 Quit shamus (Client Quit) 23.58.37 # <[Saint]> jtdesigns01: one thing you'll probably despise us for immediately is how we carved up the touchpad 23.58.53 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.58.55 # <[Saint]> Even when you know better its really hard to ignore the divisional markings on it that we render meaningless.