--- Log for 31.08.115 Server: leguin.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 3 days and 20 hours ago 00.00.38 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 00.12.13 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) 00.15.34 Quit [Franklin] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00.16.14 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 00.25.45 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00.31.22 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (suYin@server1.bouncer4you.de) 00.34.36 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 00.44.19 Join theemstra [0] (~theemstra@heemstra.us) 00.53.47 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 00.55.57 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00.58.21 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00.58.48 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 00.59.36 Join munch [0] (~munch@unaffiliated/munch) 01.07.00 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@ip98-186-66-92.fv.ks.cox.net) 01.07.00 Quit cmhobbs (Changing host) 01.07.00 Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs) 01.28.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.21.40 Join girafe [0] (~girafe@AGrenoble-651-1-446-228.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) 02.35.00 Nick soap_ is now known as soap (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 02.51.53 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02.51.59 Quit [Franklin] (Remote host closed the connection) 03.06.40 Join ZincAlloy1 [0] (~Adium@p5B2FD2E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 03.09.13 Quit ZincAlloy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03.17.05 Quit girafe (Quit: Leaving) 03.28.03 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.36.39 Join fs-bluebot_ [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053152175.adsl.alicedsl.de) 03.37.14 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03.37.57 Join aevin2_ [0] (~brootvors@nikon.hackeriet.no) 03.38.18 Quit aevin2 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03.40.21 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03.40.21 Quit aevin (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03.40.44 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@89.141.51.203.dyn.user.ono.com) 03.40.45 Join aevin [0] (eivindsy@unaffiliated/aevin) 03.47.13 Quit aevin (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03.47.13 Join aevin [0] (eivindsy@microbel.pvv.ntnu.no) 03.47.13 Quit aevin (Changing host) 03.47.13 Join aevin [0] (eivindsy@unaffiliated/aevin) 03.54.02 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-207-38.mcn.bellsouth.net) 04.02.47 Quit Moarc (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04.06.01 Join Moarc [0] (~chujko@a105.net128.okay.pl) 04.24.04 Quit scorche (Disconnected by services) 04.24.08 Join scorche` [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 05.06.39 Quit ZincAlloy1 (Quit: Leaving.) 05.22.36 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 05.22.47 Join [7] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.26.44 Quit SuperBrainAK (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 05.28.05 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.31.52 Join SuperBrainAK [0] (~Andrew@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) 05.48.29 Quit orly_owl (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 06.08.02 Join orly_owl [0] (~david@unaffiliated/orly-owl/x-3167833) 06.55.04 Quit Strife89 (Remote host closed the connection) 06.59.11 Join Markmaster [0] (~Markmaste@128-68-244-229.broadband.corbina.ru) 06.59.50 Quit Markmaster (Client Quit) 07.28.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.38.39 Quit Moarc (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07.39.22 Join Moarc [0] (~chujko@a105.net128.okay.pl) 07.39.42 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 07.52.44 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@ip-86-49-15-121.net.upcbroadband.cz) 08.18.12 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection) 08.18.12 Quit pixelma (Remote host closed the connection) 08.18.50 Join pixelma [0] (~pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 08.18.52 Join amiconn [0] (~amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 08.20.49 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08.40.08 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09.22.23 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@sphinx.lix.polytechnique.fr) 09.22.23 Quit pamaury (Changing host) 09.22.23 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 09.28.10 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.35.18 Join utrack [0] (~utrack@185.6.236.84) 09.48.59 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 10.13.10 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 10.20.14 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) 10.35.21 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) 11.28.12 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.29.58 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:9c57:70a4:741:3801) 11.32.24 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@81.30.33.177) 11.56.36 Quit Cust0sLim3n (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 12.03.52 Join Cust0sLim3n [0] (~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n) 12.31.33 Quit michaelni (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13.12.10 # <[Saint]> Do we build Android on API16 or API19? 13.12.16 # <[Saint]> It's the latter, right? 13.13.33 # <[Saint]> AH, nope. 13.13.37 # <[Saint]> Hmmm. 13.15.18 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@p5B2FD2E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 13.17.59 # <[Saint]> Oh...it is. 13.18.02 # <[Saint]> Hmmm. 13.28.16 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.40.55 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 13.45.41 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 13.45.50 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@p5B2FD2E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 13.50.18 # <[Saint]> Hmmmm. 13.50.19 # <[Saint]> Nope. 13.50.26 # <[Saint]> I can't build RaaA anymore. 14.01.26 Join ruhannn [0] (uid76353@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujbxsgtupyfgsxzc) 14.03.05 # <[Saint]> In a truly hilarious twist of events, I can build for bloody ypr* 14.03.15 # <[Saint]> ...but not Android proper. 14.11.48 # <[Saint]> See? http://pastebin.com/iua4HduV 14.12.17 # <[Saint]> What's this shit about. configure is quite clearly lying about the Android toolchains not being in my $PATH 14.13.05 Join pizzaiolo [0] (~nicolas@unaffiliated/pizzaiolo) 14.52.21 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 14.55.48 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) 15.09.23 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 15.28.18 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.35.58 Quit Cust0sLim3n (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15.46.59 Join YuMiki [0] (~Mikki@ipservice-092-208-087-230.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de) 15.50.41 Join Cust0sLim3n [0] (~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n) 16.00.52 # can I permanently remove my original firmware from the ipod video? 16.03.30 # pizzaiolo: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodPatcher#Advanced_Rockbox_install_methods_with_ipodpatcher 16.03.33 # <[Saint]> Yes. 16.03.44 # You can remove the main OF, but not the recovery mode 16.03.53 # thanks gevaerts, will have a look 16.03.58 # <[Saint]> you want 4) OSOS contains only Rockbox 16.04.08 # is it possible to run my ipod without any proprietary code? 16.04.15 # Well, you can, technically, but then you'll have to write your own flashing code and replacement early boot code 16.04.24 # <[Saint]> ^ that 16.04.28 # oh 16.04.40 # rockbox relies on the ipod's bootloader? 16.05.34 # maybe u-boot could take care of that 16.06.15 # <[Saint]> In theory, possibly. 16.06.26 # <[Saint]> But I'm not positive about uboots PP coverage. 16.06.32 # PP? 16.06.40 # <[Saint]> PortalPlayer. 16.06.44 # <[Saint]> The SoC. 16.06.48 # I see 16.07.05 # does rockbox usually include bootloaders for devices whenever available? 16.07.39 # <[Saint]> not necessarily. 16.07.54 # <[Saint]> piggybacking off the original bootloader if possible is an obvious win. 16.08.39 # <[Saint]> there's not necessarily an objective with Rockbox to "FOSS All The Things(TM)" just because you theoretically could. 16.09.06 # oh I see 16.09.29 # that's the reason I'm getting rockbox though :P 16.09.43 # I flashed my router with libreCMC, my phone with replicant 16.09.52 # might flash my tv with samygo 16.10.12 # installing free software feels great :P 16.10.49 # <[Saint]> ...wrapped your basement in foil and sleep in a Farraday cage. (sorry) ;) 16.11.02 # lol 16.11.17 # there's no such thing as a tin foil hat in this post-snowden world ): 16.11.24 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@89.141.51.203.dyn.user.ono.com) 16.12.15 # <[Saint]> Replicant is the Android derivative of choice for masochists and/or people with waaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too much self loathing or time on their hands, lol. 16.12.46 # nah, you just need to agree with the free software philosophy :) 16.12.59 # it's not always convenient, that's true 16.13.05 # but, such is life 16.13.51 # <[Saint]> If you wanted an iPod where you could remove almost every shred of proprietary code you would want an iPod Classic 6G 16.13.58 # One questions the concept of buying an ipod if that's one's philosophy 16.14.09 # <[Saint]> That's indeed true. 16.14.21 # yeah, I got it in 2006 though 16.14.29 # I didn't know about free software back then 16.14.33 # But yes, a classic might be better for you 16.14.54 # and I discovered about rockbox only this week 16.16.11 # <[Saint]> The plus side of rockbox.ipod in OSOS is the boot time is significantly faster with the stock disk. 16.16.24 # <[Saint]> The downside is updating becomes a pain in the dick. 16.16.43 # how so? 16.16.58 # <[Saint]> Upgrading Rockbox and still maintaining that boot time increase becomes more complicated than just "extract zip to root". 16.17.13 # I see 16.17.22 # but is the updating method trickier? 16.17.24 # <[Saint]> You need to flash rockbox.ipod for that specific Rockbox version _every time_ you upgrade Rockbox. 16.17.45 # <[Saint]> It's not difficult, no. 16.17.48 Quit alucryd_ (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 16.18.01 # ok 16.18.29 # * gevaerts points out that "flash" isn't really the right term here 16.18.37 # <[Saint]> I'm aware. 16.18.53 # <[Saint]> It's the term you have to use these days if you want peopel to know what you mean though. 16.18.55 # <[Saint]> Sadly. 16.19.14 Join alucryd [0] (~quassel@archlinux/developer/alucryd) 16.19.15 # <[Saint]> see also "Flashing" "ROM"s on smartphones. 16.19.32 # why is flashing wrong? 16.20.16 # <[Saint]> Flashing typically refers solely to EEPROM 16.20.19 # Because it's just put somewhere on the first partition, on disk 16.20.47 # ah I see 16.21.19 # I suppose any firmware replacement is generally called flashing 16.21.25 # nowadays at least 16.21.31 # It's also not dangerous, as the in-rom USB mode still works 16.21.47 # <[Saint]> Indeed. 16.22.07 # <[Saint]> As long as you use our toolset as described you absolutely cannot hurt this thing. 16.22.29 # nice 16.22.38 # <[Saint]> It's technically possible to go to some great lengths very deliberately and render the device unusable though. 16.22.49 # <[Saint]> but you'll never do it accidentally. 16.23.27 # Nice? Really? This relies on the original boot code you don't like! :) 16.23.41 # <[Saint]> huehuehue 16.24.04 # hm I suppose you're right 16.24.19 # (which is why we tend to keep it around) 16.24.32 # to avoid bricking it? 16.24.44 # yes 16.24.56 # <[Saint]> If we had full documentation on this SoC things would be a remarkably different story. 16.24.58 # With early boot code you tend to only get one chance 16.25.20 # it feels like you folks went 99% of the way to free it, but 1% remained :P 16.25.24 # <[Saint]> But even then I'm not sure if anyone would consider it worthwhile to go on a crusade to wipe out their early boot setup routines. 16.26.06 # That last 1% would result in loads of bricked devices 16.26.18 # <[Saint]> Right. 16.26.28 # pizzaiolo: do you install free BIOSes on your computer too? 16.26.52 # And it's *boot* code. None of this runs once rockbox is loaded 16.26.57 # I bought a macbook2,1 to flash (install) libreboot 16.27.01 # do you use free replacement Intel CPU microcode updates? 16.27.20 # <[Saint]> libre BMC ROMs? ;) 16.27.25 # I'm not sure there is a replacement for the microcode updates 16.28.22 # coreboot folks are working on freeing the embedded controller too 16.28.23 # <[Saint]> another good one, HDD controllers. 16.28.26 # BIOS is similar in functionality to the rockbox bootloader. Microcode updates are similar in difficulty (both have code signing) 16.28.51 # [Saint] theoretically you could run your system on a usb stick 16.28.56 # to avoid HDD firmware 16.29.09 # USB drive controllers can get infected with viruses too! 16.29.27 # <[Saint]> If you fully trust the ARM core that's likely driving that stick... 16.29.29 # <[Saint]> ;P 16.29.38 # pizzaiolo: why is usb stick firmware more trustworthy than hdd firmware? 16.29.53 # I'm more interested in the freedom aspect than security to be honest, although security is important 16.29.58 # <[Saint]> FOSS tinfoil hat-ism is a slippery slope of denial. 16.30.28 # sure, there is stuff like controllerless flash ... but almost nobody uses that 16.30.37 # I don't think so, we acknowledge how hard it is 16.31.04 # ideally we'd need to start making our own free designs 16.31.13 # to avoid further encroachment 16.31.27 # <[Saint]> shits expensive, yo. 16.31.31 # yeah 16.31.39 # we'll need to crowdfund like hell 16.32.26 # <[Saint]> and if you wanted to get it certified to run on a given network you can't do the whole open baseband thing. 16.32.33 # http://libreboot.org/faq/#intelbastards 16.32.37 # <[Saint]> which fucks the entire concept. 16.33.11 # wrong link 16.33.12 # http://libreboot.org/faq/#otherfirmware 16.33.39 # that's the rundown of what is still to be done 16.34.55 Join Guest18189 [0] (Slayer@69.143.14.62) 16.35.36 # so USB drives avoid at least the DMA issues with internal buses 16.47.48 # I've been reading on wikipedia but I found no info on this: is rockbox a linux/busybox distro? 16.47.54 # no 16.48.13 # what is it based on? 16.48.23 # rockbox :) 16.48.35 # oh, it doesn't use the linux kernel? 16.48.44 # curious 16.49.56 # linux might be usable for the newer devices, but when rockbox got started there was 2MB to play with. After loading linux that doesn't leave much for buffering 16.50.12 # makes sense 16.50.28 # ipodlinux was based on uclinux though 16.51.07 # Yes, but ipodlinux runs on ipods, which (those, anyway) have at least 32MB RAM 16.51.20 # right 16.51.22 # A sansa clip v1 has 2.3MB 16.52.02 # That's a flash device, so spin ups don't matter, but still 16.52.49 # The Archos Jukebox (which is where it all started) had 2MB and a 2.5" hard drive. That means spin ups are expensive battery-wise, which means every KB of buffer space matters 16.54.09 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.00.13 Quit utrack (Quit: brb hunting bears) 17.01.34 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 17.06.42 # is it presently possible to run emCORE with ipod video? 17.10.07 # ah nevermind, found the answer 17.13.38 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 17.25.33 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17.28.09 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.28.22 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.29.46 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 17.43.09 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17.50.02 # [Saint]: I agree 100%. Stallman seems to make a whole lot of sense until you get to the part where he says, "But if it's not modifiable it can be treated as a circuit!" 17.53.05 # this is actually a compromise 17.53.41 # the FSF is willing to revisit that definition when more free firmware is produced 18.00.18 # More on the freedom of bootloader: rewritting extremely low level stuff (like RAM init and so one) for Rockbox is a waste of time in my opinion. You could do it, it would take a lot of time (it's often undocumented). You have to rewrite it for each device basically (so nearly no reusability) and you'll end writing the exact same code as the manufacturer. Not to mention the increased risk of bricking. 18.05.25 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) 18.09.57 Quit pizzaiolo (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 18.21.27 Quit krabador (Quit: Take The Time) 18.27.45 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@89.141.51.203.dyn.user.ono.com) 18.32.06 Join Froward [0] (~flensomat@pool-108-52-76-126.phlapa.east.verizon.net) 18.35.09 Join Markmaster [0] (~Markmaste@128-68-244-229.broadband.corbina.ru) 18.54.29 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 18.57.13 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 18.59.50 Join Markmas__ [0] (~Markmaste@vpn-dc-184-173-166-155.hosts.getcloakvpn.com) 19.02.32 Quit Markmaster (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19.08.22 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) 19.14.21 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-179-187.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 19.18.51 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) 19.26.06 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (suYin@server1.bouncer4you.de) 19.28.24 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.38.53 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 19.40.47 Quit rela (Client Quit) 19.44.58 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) 20.05.11 Quit krabador (Quit: Take The Time) 20.34.38 Quit Cust0sLim3n (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 20.49.32 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) 20.49.37 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 20.50.46 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@x5ce77bd8.dyn.telefonica.de) 20.53.06 Quit fs-bluebot_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 20.54.56 Join Cust0sLim3n [0] (~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n) 20.58.54 Quit Jinx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21.03.21 Join dys [0] (~dys@ip-109-41-56-104.web.vodafone.de) 21.08.14 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 21.24.39 Join przemhb [0] (~przemhb@89-71-149-50.dynamic.chello.pl) 21.26.52 Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 21.28.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.29.44 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 21.34.17 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.35.04 Quit Froward (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 21.39.31 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lemonboy@unaffiliated/thelemonman) 21.41.59 Quit zoktar (Quit: -) 21.42.06 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 21.42.58 Join JanC_ [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 21.45.16 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 21.48.56 Nick JanC_ is now known as JanC (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) 21.51.07 Quit pamaury (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 21.52.15 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 21.56.04 Join zoktar [0] (~zoktar@78-72-45-32-no186.tbcn.telia.com) 21.56.04 Quit zoktar (Changing host) 21.56.04 Join zoktar [0] (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) 22.07.17 Quit pamaury (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 22.08.25 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 22.12.22 Quit MMlosh (Quit: Bye...) 22.12.57 Quit pamaury (Client Quit) 22.14.05 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 22.22.19 Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@ipservice-092-217-053-070.092.217.pools.vodafone-ip.de) 22.26.36 Join pizzaiolo [0] (~nicolas@unaffiliated/pizzaiolo) 22.27.42 # is it possible to find out my ipod video's serial number under rockbox? 22.47.40 Quit Markmas__ (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 22.47.56 Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) 23.00.15 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@145.133.43.230) 23.00.41 Quit edhelas (Remote host closed the connection) 23.00.42 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 23.01.07 Quit pamaury (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 23.02.15 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 23.04.58 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving) 23.05.19 Quit AlexP (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23.11.18 Quit pamaury (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 23.12.25 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 23.15.54 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23.16.15 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.17.24 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 41.0/20150827142634]) 23.28.27 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.50.28 Quit petur (Remote host closed the connection) 23.57.13 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)