--- Log for 05.10.115 Server: sinisalo.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot- Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 18 days and 19 hours ago 00.00.21 Quit bertrik_ (Remote host closed the connection) 00.07.48 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 00.12.08 Quit chrisb (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00.14.41 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 00.16.08 Quit stickyb1t (Remote host closed the connection) 00.25.41 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 00.36.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.44.38 Quit ender` (Quit: The curious thing about .Net is that it allows you to use any language you want, as long as it's C#.) 00.47.47 Join Aldem [0] (~Aldem@unaffiliated/aldem) 01.03.06 Quit jtdesigns01 (Quit: jtdesigns01) 01.08.02 # <[Franklin]> uh, what are the requirements for a @rockbox.org email? 01.12.00 # <[Saint]> asking. 01.12.09 # <[Saint]> it's just a mirror address. 01.12.33 # <[Franklin]> stupid freenom isn't working anymore, I was looking for alternatives :) 01.12.47 # <[Saint]> it's not actually a separate address. 01.12.53 # <[Franklin]> yeah 01.12.55 # <[Saint]> it just points one to another. 01.12.56 # <[Franklin]> I know 01.13.39 # <[Saint]> Ask Daniel or Bjorn. 01.49.50 # Hello 01.50.23 # Does Rockbox supports APE well ? 01.50.48 Join jtdesigns01 [0] (~jonathan@2601:400:8000:2669:411f:f478:7a16:17bc) 01.51.39 # <[Franklin]> Aldem: it's supported 01.51.42 # <[Franklin]> but SLOOW 01.51.57 # It keeps bugging my Sansa e280 on APEs 01.52.07 # <[Franklin]> there's no reason to use APE over FLAC, really 01.52.08 # But I have the lastest test ver. though 01.52.17 # I just downloaded them as APE 01.52.21 # <[Saint]> Why would anyone want to use APE deliberately? 01.52.28 # Then, laziness kicked in 01.52.48 # <[Saint]> APE is foolishly resource intensive, and there's no realworld games. 01.52.54 # Because the said album could only be found in lossless as APE 01.52.55 # <[Saint]> just use flac or wav 01.52.57 # Cough cough torrents 01.53.14 # <[Franklin]> Aldem: re-encode them 01.53.19 # <[Saint]> and we all know that transcoding doesn't exist. :p 01.53.19 # Oh, I will 01.53.28 # I was in a hurry yesterday 01.53.37 # I just put all the files on the sansa and hop to work 01.53.52 # TAK is nice though 01.53.59 # <[Franklin]> there's like one target that's fast enough to actually decode it well 01.53.59 # <[Saint]> take a look at APE performance: 01.54.01 # <[Saint]> http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison 01.54.12 # But yes, FLAC is the best compatibility wise 01.54.15 # <[Saint]> APE performance is terrible, even on the _insane_ targets. 01.54.59 # <[Saint]> Realistically though, you'll never detect an observable difference on a wide majority of tracks between lossless and modern LAME at 320 CBR. 01.55.16 # <[Saint]> Outside of a few very specific detectable encoding quirks of LAME. 01.55.46 # <[Saint]> ANd even then you have to really know what you're listening for, and have a track with a very diverse dynamic range. 01.56.00 # I do hear a diff 01.56.16 # Between lossless and 320, but not with all of my headphones 01.56.18 # <[Franklin]> so use FLAC then 01.56.24 # <[Saint]> I'm sure you think you do. 01.56.27 # <[Saint]> double blind ABX testing has proved time and time again that lossless audio codecs may as well not exist. 01.56.38 # I did ABX it with Foobar [Saint] 01.57.19 # <[Saint]> there's no statistical correlation with being able to perceive a difference with modern LAME and lossless codecs that is significantly different from the probability of blind guessing. 01.57.25 # I agree that it's not a 'black and white' difference though 01.57.35 # <[Saint]> That has been tested time and time again. 01.57.50 # <[Saint]> You, me, anyone else, is just as likely to get it right by blind luck. 01.57.58 # <[Saint]> That's backed by hard data. 01.58.03 # Well, I don't know what to tell you 01.58.12 # I agree that the difference is subtle 01.58.30 Quit Aldem (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.59.04 # <[Saint]> I myself can do it, with 100% reliability, but it has to be a fairly old version of the LAME encoder, and it needs to be a VERY specific reference track with extremely high dynamic range. 01.59.25 Join Aldem [0] (~Aldem@unaffiliated/aldem) 01.59.25 # <[Saint]> If I am not allowed to pick the samples, as any test should be....nope. 01.59.36 # * [Franklin] never plays audio in rockbox 02.00.04 # Back, sorry 02.00.11 # <[Saint]> ANd even then I'm cheating by listing for quirks I know exist in the LAME encoder. 02.00.16 # <[Saint]> *listening 02.00.29 # There are some listening tests now and then on HydrogenAudio 02.00.33 # Interesting stuff 02.00.42 # <[Saint]> Those are all gyped. 02.01.07 # I wouldn't say that 02.01.07 # <[Saint]> There's nothing statistically significant in any of that data. 02.01.11 # <[Saint]> It's all useless. 02.01.28 # <[Saint]> You can easily cheat just by pulling the tracks right out of the browser cache. 02.01.34 # <[Saint]> and you'd better believe people do. 02.01.48 # Sure 02.01.57 # Where's human is, human nature is also there 02.02.02 # <[Saint]> for it to have any scientific merit, the observer cannot control the track selection or access the recoding at all. 02.02.10 # <[Saint]> *recording 02.02.51 # <[Saint]> It's just a community of people trying to justify their ludicrous expenditure and silly numbers. 02.02.58 # No 02.03.03 # That's Head-fi 02.03.11 # HydrogenAudio is sane 02.03.50 # In fact, claiming things withough bringing proof on HA is a bannable offence 02.04.31 # <[Saint]> Trying to convinced themselves that there's actually a meaningful reason to use 24/192kHz "HD" audio. 02.04.49 # They say the contrary in fact 02.04.53 # <[Saint]> It's especially hilarious when they use Rockbox and laud how much of a difference this HD audio makes. 02.04.57 # They say that it's useless 02.05.05 # <[Saint]> Blissfully ignorant that we're downsampling it silently. 02.05.08 # HA doesn't believe in 24/96 02.05.23 # I think you're confusing HA with Head-Fi 02.05.31 # <[Saint]> They're all toxic. 02.05.34 # <[Franklin]> 32kbps mp3 and wav sound the same to me... 02.06.05 # <[Saint]> realistically 15.5 bits is enough to reproduce the entire human audible spectrum faithfully. 02.06.22 # HA is not denying that 02.06.32 # Most of HA users listen to 16/44.1 02.06.45 # <[Saint]> but people in the audiophile community call me satan if I dare try bringing sampling theory into their conversations about how many silly adjectives thay can apply to an audio source. 02.07.00 # You really should browse HA a little 02.07.36 # um guys, you should probably move this discussion to #rockbox-community 02.07.41 # <[Saint]> The only place I see lossless audio being relevant for consumers is archival. 02.08.03 # HA call them Audio'phools' 02.08.15 # jtdesigns01: Wasn't aware there was such a channel 02.08.22 # <[Saint]> Pot calling the kettle black. 02.08.51 # Topic for #rockbox is: 3.13 released! | Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at http://www.rockbox.org/irc 02.08.59 # [Saint]: Seriously, from what I here from you, HA is the place people like you. You should give it a try. No non-sense or audiophoolery stuff 02.09.20 # Thanks jtdesigns01 02.10.58 # * [Saint] maintains that he can set the topic to whatever he feels like 02.11.03 # <[Saint]> sooo....nya! 02.11.09 # <[Saint]> :p 02.34.24 Quit michaelni (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02.34.49 Join michaelni [0] (~michael@chello084114129144.4.15.vie.surfer.at) 02.36.44 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.37.31 Join [Frankli1] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 02.37.50 Quit [Franklin] (Quit: Reconnecting) 02.37.59 Nick [Frankli1] is now known as [Franklin] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 02.43.27 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@192-222-31-156.comsouth.net) 02.54.12 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Gotta go) 03.00.45 Join franklin [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 03.01.19 Quit [Franklin] (Read error: No route to host) 03.01.30 Nick franklin is now known as [Franklin] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin) 03.02.25 Quit [Franklin] (Client Quit) 03.13.44 Quit Aldem (Quit: Later) 03.50.44 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-232-110.mcn.bellsouth.net) 04.10.47 Quit ruhans (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 04.33.24 Join rela [0] (~x@p200300764D3C740001900CC9C1503221.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 04.33.32 Quit rela (Changing host) 04.33.32 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 04.36.45 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.46.40 Join ruhans [0] (uid76353@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evklqkccnwkyactz) 04.51.07 Quit jtdesigns01 (Remote host closed the connection) 05.38.53 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) 05.39.05 Join [7] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 05.43.46 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-57-230.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) 05.43.46 Quit JdGordon (Changing host) 05.43.46 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 05.45.41 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05.48.50 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 05.50.36 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 05.53.30 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.53.48 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-241-226.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net) 05.53.48 Quit JdGordon (Changing host) 05.53.48 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 06.33.18 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 06.36.48 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.36.56 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 06.51.56 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@ppp118-209-101-60.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) 06.51.56 Quit JdGordon (Changing host) 06.51.56 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 06.54.58 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07.01.30 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving) 07.43.57 Quit pixelma (Remote host closed the connection) 07.43.57 Quit amiconn (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07.45.56 Join pixelma [0] (~pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 07.45.58 Join amiconn [0] (~amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 07.46.47 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 08.18.37 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 08.36.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.06.00 Join petur [0] (~petur@91.183.48.77) 09.06.00 Quit petur (Changing host) 09.06.00 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.12.02 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p5B0C55F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 09.19.51 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 09.22.00 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09.28.52 Join einhirn_ [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.30.09 Quit einhirn (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09.31.09 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 09.33.41 Quit einhirn_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09.42.19 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 10.15.29 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 10.27.39 # pamaury: hey 10.32.00 Quit krnlyng_ (Remote host closed the connection) 10.32.34 Join krnlyng_ [0] (~liar@213162068132.public.t-mobile.at) 10.36.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.43.02 # wodz: hey 10.43.09 # I'm finally in the UK :) 10.43.42 # not sure I'll have much time this morning, I need to open a bank account, get a insurance number, sim card and so on 10.44.59 # pamaury: As I wrote, I like your hwstub/hwstub_server refactoring. The only thing is that I though that tcp transport will be used internally between tools. That means if you fire up hwstub_shell with all params and it checks hwstub_server is not running it will spawn one. 10.45.52 # wodz: yeah but see the log, the problem is that hwstub_shell only handles one device 10.46.00 # whereas therere can be several hwstub device 10.46.12 # not to mention that hwstub_server doesn't handle disconnect/reconnect 10.46.28 # apart from that, I agree that would be a good idea 10.47.19 # pamaury: isn't uri meant to handle this case? I mean filter which device you want connect to 10.47.41 # discon/reconn should be easy to fix 10.48.58 # yes but say, in qeditor for example, the user want to change the device to connect to, suddenly the running server becomes useless 10.49.19 # and the uri can be more or less precise, if you specify bus+addr, it will change everytime 10.49.22 Join pedro_angelo [0] (~pedro_ang@152.236.110.99) 10.50.48 Quit pedro_angelo (Remote host closed the connection) 10.51.01 # it's really the server that should enumerate device and report all of them, and handle this dynamically 10.51.12 # so maybe hwstub_server should build up a list of connected devices and return it on request to the client 10.51.47 # yes exactly 10.51.54 # and have a mechanism to notify a change in the list 10.52.02 # basically this is all implemented in qeditor 10.55.11 # wodz: what is the status of your fixes for RaaA on Android 5? 10.55.45 # pixelma: I wouldn't call it fixes. This are hacks rather. 11.03.16 Quit petur (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11.03.30 # Anyway I guess there are more problems with imposed restrictions on ART and our internal architecture - talk comming to mind first. 11.03.40 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 11.06.59 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11.10.33 Quit krnlyng_ (Remote host closed the connection) 11.13.38 # but is Rockbox usable there at least? 11.17.46 # pixelma: 1) I tried in emulator 2) Didn't check voice interface 3) Patches on gerrit are not very clean. 11.18.00 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@83.175.90.24) 11.18.02 # pixelma: Considering all this it can play music in emulator 11.19.42 # hmm, ok. Thanks 11.20.53 # pixelma: I can clean it up a bit but I am not sure it is worth the effort. With current approach it should not go into HEAD. 11.25.22 Quit petur (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11.25.50 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 11.27.32 Join p3tur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 11.27.32 Quit petur (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11.27.54 Nick p3tur is now known as petur (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 11.48.23 Join stickyb1t [0] (~egon@msw13.pip.aber.ac.uk) 11.55.49 Quit stickyb1t (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 11.56.02 Join stickyb1t [0] (~egon@144.124.122.184) 12.16.19 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 12.36.52 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.40.14 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 12.42.34 Quit stickyb1t (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12.42.59 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13.02.27 Join stickyb1t [0] (~egon@msw13.pip.aber.ac.uk) 13.05.40 Quit djukon (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13.09.09 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13.09.10 Join st1ckyb1t [0] (~egon@msw13.pip.aber.ac.uk) 13.09.30 Quit stickyb1t (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 13.14.18 Quit st1ckyb1t (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13.22.04 Join djukon [0] (transitor@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-wcmczljleatyfdei) 13.27.08 Join LiveboxAndy [0] (5fac4a44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.172.74.68) 13.27.47 Quit LiveboxAndy (Client Quit) 13.28.10 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 13.36.24 Quit djukon (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13.37.51 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14.30.21 Join Jinx [0] (~Jinx@unaffiliated/jinx) 14.30.43 Join st1ckyb1t [0] (~egon@msw13.pip.aber.ac.uk) 14.31.48 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 1.2) 14.36.44 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 14.36.56 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.37.55 Join FSanches [0] (~felipe@2804:14c:37:268b:d1e1:657a:60f3:2d0f) 14.37.56 Quit st1ckyb1t (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14.39.12 # hi, there! I'm a frequent code contributor to MAME / MESS. I wonder whether it would be possible to support emulation of music players in MAME 14.39.56 # for that we would need 2 things: technical info about the supported devices (which I guess can be obtained by reading rockbox source code) and original firmware dumps (before rockbox being installed on the devices) 14.40.51 # any thought on that? 14.42.48 # FSanches: I'm sorry for the stupid question, what is MAME / MESS ? 14.43.08 # MAME = Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator 14.43.16 # MESS = Multi Emulator Super System 14.43.31 Join st1ckyb1t [0] (~egon@msw13.pip.aber.ac.uk) 14.43.46 # MAME and MESS used to be released separatelly, but now both are merged into a single thing called simply MAME 14.44.06 # it is a free software project for building a (huge) collection of emulators 14.44.26 # with the primary purpose of preserving computing history 14.44.27 # ok so it basically emulates arcade machines. And what would you like to do with rockbox ? 14.44.39 # it emulates anything 14.45.23 # its arcade machines emulation is highly popular , but it also emulates all sorts of digital equipment, not only arcades 14.45.39 # for instance, recently someone added emulation of a dot matrix printer 14.46.09 # I see, so you would like to emulate some mp3 players (like a Sansa Clip for example, just picking a random one) with MAME, do I undertand correctly ? 14.46.33 # so, the purpose is to document the hardware architecture of portable music players by means of implementing emulators for them 14.46.44 # yes, exactly 14.46.55 # I see, what architecture do you have in MAME ? Do you support ARM ? MIPS ? 14.47.00 # yes 14.47.03 # lots of things 14.47.21 # we support the CPUs that are necessary for emulating the things we need 14.47.29 # the emulator is modular 14.47.44 # it has a system for connecting the emulation modules 14.47.46 # Ok, so of course it depends a lot on the mp3 players, rockbox runs on lot of different SOCs, some are very well documented, some badly, some not at all 14.48.10 # but that sounds very interesting 14.48.18 # so you basically write a C file listing which CPUs, sound chips, video chips, peripherals are used 14.48.24 # and how they are mapped into memory 14.48.33 Quit st1ckyb1t (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14.49.24 # I see, one of the things that is hard in emulation of these devices is that they tend to have a number of devices on I/O and GPIO ports, some of them are even bit-banged 14.49.56 # look here for a list of the CPUs we already support: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/tree/master/src/devices/cpu 14.50.32 # impressive list :-o 14.51.01 # 18+ years old project 14.51.44 # since we usually reverse engineer a lot of thing, we usually have a good understanding of the working of each device, and we usually know how to dumps ROMS and so on. I guess it would be easier to start with a very simple SOC because recent SOCs tend to be very complicated 14.52.01 # yeah, sure 14.52.23 # Do you have any support for things like USB ? 14.52.47 Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) 14.54.09 # FSanches: unfortunately, I need to go, but I really would like to resume this conversation. Do you have an IRC channel ? Or email address ? 14.54.32 # I'll send you my email address in a private conversation 14.55.28 # the developers and contributors of the MAME/MESS projects usually hangout at #messdev on irc.arcti.ca server 14.56.03 # ok, I'll probably go there then 14.56.20 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14.56.25 # ok, see ya 14.56.36 # * gevaerts isn't really sure what the "market" is for mp3 player emulation 14.56.55 # Still, if you enjoy doing that sort of thing... :) 14.57.01 # usually writing emulator blocks for peripherials is what is time consuming 14.57.01 # gevaerts: it is not about a "market". It is about hardware documentation 14.57.22 # for the sake of historical preservation 14.57.52 # wodz: I hacked emulators twice and always ended up emulating just enough to run the piece of code I was interested in 14.58.18 # that is something which can't be named documentation IMO 14.58.25 Join djukon [0] (~djukon@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-owriocidtwpvvrni) 14.58.58 # FSanches: yes, I can see that up to a point, it's just that I don't think many of those devices to very interesting things 14.59.13 # :-) 14.59.33 # there's plenty of emulation geeks willing to emulate anything they can 14.59.38 # They're not like game consoles with massive game libraries available 14.59.54 # it is much more about the technical challenge 15.00.01 # feels like solving puzzles 15.00.14 # it is fun 15.00.28 # so, there's people willing to do it 15.00.42 # Well, it's a sign the more useful stuff is starting to be complete I guess, which is a good sign :) 15.02.27 Join jtdesigns01 [0] (~jonathan@2601:400:8000:2669:edd7:9ff:f9ed:9504) 15.02.30 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 15.03.15 # If it were up to me, I'd consider starting with something PP502x based, as that gives you a fair range of players 15.05.22 # But I'm not that low-level a person, so I might be overlooking some things that make those hard 15.06.58 # There's also some emulation code for those at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6524 15.08.41 # Hmmm, I suspect maybe the ams line is easier due to there being actual datasheets for the SoC 15.09.03 # But that's fewer devices :) 15.10.16 # PP502x are awefully documented 15.10.23 # iirc 15.11.00 # the AMS players seem more reasonable for a start 15.11.13 # the imx233 players are well documented but the SOC is very complex 15.11.58 # the TCCs are pretty documented 15.12.02 # are quite simple 15.12.36 # I'd say it depends on who's doing the work and why. If historical significance is important, I'd say things like the archoses and the ipods are more interesting, if you want a decent beginner project pp502x is probably out, ... 15.12.38 # the RK27xx is good bet because they are simple, the doc is so-so as wodz knows ;) 15.13.09 # The assumption here probably is that the people involved have done RE and emulatiuon before though 15.13.35 # but most (all ?) people who worked on the archoses are gone I think 15.13.42 # * pamaury need to leave 15.14.18 # Yes, but we know who they are and where they live (online, anyway) :) 15.15.09 # And we know where to find some of the OF people too 15.17.35 # for the sake of historical preservatin the target is to emulate EVERYTHING 15.17.47 # but to start is always good to select something simple 15.18.31 # the first one does not need to be the most historically relevant 15.18.33 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15.18.55 # I wonder if maybe the old irivers might be easiest 15.20.02 # I'll take a look 15.20.32 # http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IriverPort 15.20.36 # please take a look at some of the MAME drivers to have an idea of how our modular emulation system works 15.21.06 # the drivers are here https://github.com/mamedev/mame/tree/master/src/mame/drivers 15.22.13 # for instance, here's the machine configuration description for an Apple 2 computer: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/apple2.c#L1259 15.24.31 # * gevaerts assumes that a system with lots of separate one-function chips with available documentation is easier to handle than a system with one big SoC and no documentation :) 15.26.05 # sure 15.26.33 # more recent stuff in MAME already deals with that kind of problem 15.26.39 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 15.26.52 # which is not always solved. There's lots of imncomplete things in MAME 15.27.05 # but it is OK 15.27.33 # we do some sort of "Computer Archeology"... 15.27.54 # documenting incomplete stuff is better than ignoring it and letting it die forever 15.27.57 # On the rockbox side, I'd say the earlier ports have better documentation on our wiki 15.28.36 # cool 15.29.08 # People actually traced PCBs back then :) 15.29.34 # awesome :-) 15.29.49 # I do trace PCBs sometimes 15.29.54 # but for larger PCBs 15.30.06 # music players tend to be VERY small 15.30.12 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) 15.30.20 # so it is certainly very much harder to trace the PCBs 15.30.30 # * gevaerts nods 15.30.35 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p5B0C55F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 15.30.37 # The old ones were bigger 15.32.32 # I'd say the best documentation on our wiki is probably for the archoses (jukebox/player, recorder, ondio), the irivers (1x0, 3x0), and the iaudio X5/M5/M3 15.57.18 Quit foolsh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16.09.55 Join foolsh [0] (~quassel@c-69-245-208-80.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 16.17.10 Quit foolsh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16.19.42 Quit snuffi (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) 16.23.24 Join foolsh [0] (~quassel@c-69-245-208-80.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 16.33.38 Quit foolsh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16.36.58 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.38.53 Join foolsh [0] (~quassel@2601:241:c200:4bc5:9585:c7bd:b248:a7c9) 17.30.57 Quit petur (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.33.03 Quit foolsh (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17.37.54 Join foolsh [0] (~quassel@c-69-245-208-80.hsd1.il.comcast.net) 18.10.47 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! 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