--- Log for 18.10.115 Server: sinisalo.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot- Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 1 month and 1 day ago 00.27.39 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151015151621]) 00.31.11 # <[Franklin]> how do those wifi sd cards work? 00.33.31 # <[Franklin]> are they for transferring files over wifi on devices that can't do it differently? 00.38.58 Quit ender` (Quit: If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and OBOL. -- A Programmer (@1Pr0grammer)) 00.43.18 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-224-211.mcn.bellsouth.net) 00.43.27 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 00.44.33 # [Franklin], basically 00.45.02 # talking about the EyeFi things? 00.45.15 # <[Franklin]> yeah 00.45.25 # I've never used one, but that's exactly what they do, as I understand it 00.45.31 # <[Franklin]> so you copy a file to the SD card, and it pops up somewhere else? 00.45.56 # * [Franklin] hoped that they were filesystem-based wifi adapters 00.46.14 # I think it connects to a network and acts as a networked drive on it 00.46.22 # <[Franklin]> ah 00.46.51 # anyone know how long I should expect this emcore installer to take to format my 256gb sd card? 00.47.02 # a couple of seconds 00.47.06 # it's been about 5 minutes 00.47.09 # <[Franklin]> can I make rockbox print a stack dump or call trace? 00.47.14 # that's way too long 00.47.22 # so something is messed up then 00.47.23 # no progress indicated yet? 00.47.35 # just says formatting, no progress bar or anything if there's supposed to be one 00.47.54 # I might have installed the CF->SD thing wrong 00.47.57 # <[Franklin]> it'd save me a lot of debugging if it could 00.48.11 # or not put the ribbon back in all the way 00.48.13 # fifthshiftathome: which emcore build are you using? 00.48.33 # r859 00.48.49 # fifthshiftathome: if you aren't, try using the latest one from the freemyipod.org installation instructions 00.48.52 # following the instrutions here http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic/UMSboot 00.48.59 # ok, that should be fine then 00.49.31 # somewhat likely to be a hardware issue then 00.49.34 # any easy way to troubleshoot before I take this thing apart again? 00.49.58 # it definitely has trouble accessing the card, it's just the question why 00.50.05 # yeah 00.50.18 # well, shit 00.50.28 # I'll open it up... I hope the card wasn't DOA 00.50.28 # could be anything from a software bug on our side, or a loose cable, to a card that's somehow incompatible with the adapter 00.50.32 # or that 00.51.16 # [Franklin]: have a look at what panic() does 00.51.52 # * [Franklin] will just call panic() 00.52.02 # <[Franklin]> ... except I can't :( 00.52.18 # <[Franklin]> it's not in the API, any reason for this? 00.52.39 # *look* 00.52.51 # <[Saint]> pffft. 00.52.59 # <[Saint]> ain't nobody gots time fo dat. 00.53.36 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00.54.28 # It's not in the usual API because rockbox is not a rockbox debugger 00.56.52 # <[Franklin]> __builtin_return_address() won't work when level!=0 :( 00.57.48 # <[Franklin]> argh! I'll just put debug messages in the code then 00.59.01 # * [Franklin] found the bug! forgot to compare strcmp's return == 0 01.00.29 # <[Franklin]> and now, time to take /out/ all the debug messages :P 01.10.24 # I hate the ipod classic case, so much 01.10.41 # I'm not even taking this stupid thing apart right now 01.10.52 # I was getting too frustrated with those clips 01.11.15 # <[Saint]> the 'fat' ones are a: a lot better (IMO), and b: a lot more forgiving in this regard. 01.11.23 # anyone have any thoughts on 3d printing a better case for the 7th gen components? has anyone done this yet? 01.11.32 # <[Saint]> the ones with the stupid aluminium curved backing are a bloody nightmare. 01.11.52 # [Saint], i'm not sure which I have 01.12.17 # there's an aluminum shell which wraps around to a matte black front 01.12.25 # <[Saint]> Is the back shiny and chrome, or dull aluminium? 01.12.25 # but it is kinda fat 01.12.38 # mmm, yes? 01.12.47 # It's been scratched all to hell 01.12.50 # so it's definitely dull now 01.13.01 # but I'm not sure whether I would have called it dull or shiny originally 01.13.14 # <[Saint]> It should be pretty obvious. 01.13.22 # <[Saint]> Ever seen one of the older iPod generations? 01.13.47 # http://sellbuycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Apple-iPod-Classic.jpg 01.13.48 # it's that 01.13.57 # yeah 01.13.57 # <[Saint]> by 'shiny and chrome', I'm not in fact referencing Mad Max, but, rather, it would literally be a strainless mirror image finish. 01.14.17 # <[Saint]> either that or boring aluminium. 01.14.55 # oh 01.15.02 # yeah it was mirror image 01.15.40 # the back was 01.15.56 # it's either a 6th or a 7th gen 01.15.58 # <[Saint]> My favorite model is the old fat original 6G 160GB one. 01.16.19 # <[Saint]> came with a substantially larger battery, for...reasons. 01.16.36 # <[Saint]> 850mAh vs 650mAh from memory. 01.16.49 # right on 01.17.24 # I think the replacement battery I bought like a year ago when I first started planning doing this was 900mAh 01.17.25 # <[Saint]> sadly we've got no way of determining which is which reliably so the battery runtime code (even if it was right) would never work reliably. 01.17.48 # which I didn't have any real appreciation for until just now 01.17.51 # <[Saint]> that fact gives me no desire to work on the runtime detection. 01.18.02 # if I might have a 650mAh in the thing currently 01.18.38 # trying to detect the remaining life in the battery? 01.18.54 # or its capacity? 01.19.04 # <[Saint]> we can do that reliably based on voltage, detecting the estimated runtime is significantly more difficult. 01.19.11 # oh gotcha 01.19.31 # <[Saint]> especially if someone's going to be removing the original disk, because we need to estimate usage. 01.19.35 # I imagine you sort of have to have historical data 01.19.48 # or at least a few good datapoints to extrapolate from 01.20.01 # sort of like how I think batterybot on Android does it 01.21.01 # how I would do it anyway, if I were making something like batterybot and didn't have access to whatever hardware abstraction stuff that could just report those kinds of stats 01.21.46 # really rought estimate at first, and start tracking until you have enough data to narrow it down 01.22.35 # woul dbe a good excuse to stress test a few ipods, if you were gonna do that sort of thing 01.22.52 # <[Saint]> It kinda fell into a lump of things that wasn't particularly important since the average user will never see this information anyway and we deliberately hide this in a "do not fuck with this shit" menu. 01.22.59 # <[Saint]> But, it would be nice to get right. 01.23.06 # <[Saint]> Or, at least in the same ballpark. 01.23.18 # <[Saint]> Not many orders of magnitude offbase as it is now. 01.25.57 # <[Saint]> should probably make a build time modifier to hide that in production builds. 01.26.47 # <[Saint]> (or rather, hide it by default and make a build time modifier to expose it) 01.27.37 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) 01.27.58 # <[Saint]> putting "Keep Out!" in a menu string essentailly means "Hey, Johnny and Janey, poke at all this stuff and then come hassle us when you think you've broken something" 01.30.27 # <[Saint]> I made a very simple build time modifier to replace the USB VID/PID on the iPods with a completely bullshit out-of-spec value, but I'm skeptical of even submitting it. It's very highly questionable grounds doing so. 01.30.39 # <[Saint]> But, then, so is re-using the OEMs identifiers, so... 01.41.38 # Eh, USB specs are more like guidelines anyway 01.41.52 # and the whole VID/PID thing is a clusterfuck as it is 01.42.34 # manufacturers seem to so rarely bother to put the accurate info in 01.43.11 # if it makes it easier on you to modify it, I don't think anyone would really care 01.43.38 # y'all are hobbyists anyway, right? Not a licensed business... No one is selling new mp3 players with rockbox on them 01.44.48 # I don't think the IETF police (or whomever is responsible for maintaining all that stuff) is gonna come after you 01.44.49 # lol 01.46.45 # <[Saint]> I absolutely sincerely doubt it would happen, but in the odd world that is the TPPA draft text, they very well could. 01.47.02 # <[Saint]> there's some very broad strokes in that wording. 01.56.58 # yeah but with any luck that won't be ratified 01.57.17 # the public in my corner of society is pretty well aware of it and no one likes it 01.57.26 # even Hillary Clinton suddenly doesn't like it 01.57.32 # after pushing for it for years 01.58.12 # * fifthshiftathome not trying to talk politics 01.58.17 # <[Saint]> NZ, where I am, is in it balls deep. 01.58.29 # <[Saint]> largely depressing. 01.58.33 # that sucks 01.58.56 # what would be the benefit to overwriting the VID/PID for the project? 01.59.11 # you can already tell when a thing is an ipod or whatever running rockbox, right? 02.01.26 # <[Saint]> car stereos, macs, home theater, etc. can get all weird and refuse to talk shop when they see it's an iPod. Want to use pieces of the iPod accessory protocol we don't cater for, want to access an iTunes db that might not even exist, and just roll over and refuse to treat it as generic storage. 02.02.22 # <[Saint]> and on the ipod6g for instance there's no luxury of dualboot or forcing disk mode. 02.02.24 # <[Saint]> (yet) 02.03.19 # <[Saint]> though there's a very determined and bright mind working on making that a thing. 02.04.05 # ah okay 02.04.45 # so like for example, my car stereo has an ipod jack and when I plug in the ipod, it puts a KIA logo on the ipod screen and takes over control of it 02.05.06 # it does that, ofc, due to the VID/PID saying "yup this is an ipod" 02.05.18 # <[Saint]> right. 02.05.22 # but if there are things rockbox can do that the normal ipod OS can't 02.05.41 # my car stereo saying "up this is an ipod" might interfere with that 02.05.46 # or even prevent it outright 02.09.31 # a question I've had for awhile now though is 02.09.57 # that KIA logo I get; that's coming from the stereo, right? it's not predefined on the ipod 02.10.34 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02.10.51 # meaning if I made a thing capable of doing that kind of interfacing with the ipod, I could potentially make it display whatever I want 02.11.46 # alternatively, if it is predefined on the ipod, I could alter the image that way 02.11.51 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 02.12.47 # <[Saint]> yeah, it gets sent over from the head unit via the ipod accessory protocol. 02.13.19 # sounds like I should look into the ipod accessory protocol 02.16.39 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 02.30.43 # * [Franklin] thinks the solution to the VID/PID conundrum is to get one (for free?) 02.35.24 # http://www.voti.nl/docs/usb-pid.html 02.35.36 # usb.org apparently sells them 02.35.53 # yup, $2000 or so 02.35.56 # <[Franklin]> there was some project that was giving away free ones for open-source projects 02.36.05 # <[Franklin]> PIDs, that is 02.36.16 # you probably mean openmoko 02.36.22 # <[Franklin]> yeah 02.37.05 # btw, the fee was increased to $5000 in the meantime 02.37.20 # still fairly low actually, I'm wondering why they didn't already run out of VID space at that price 02.37.28 Quit ivologger (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 02.37.53 # <[Franklin]> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Product_IDs 02.38.04 # <[Franklin]> TheSeven: because nobody really bothers 02.38.33 # <[Franklin]> there's no real advantage to doing so 02.38.42 # well we really considered getting one at a fairly small company 02.39.01 # and if companies of that size do consider this, I guess there are millions of those... 02.39.35 # I kinda wonder why they didn't spend a few more bits on the vendor ID 02.39.42 # <[Franklin]> yeah 02.39.51 # <[Franklin]> 2^16 is TINY nowadays 02.40.17 # hence why many manufacturers seem to just wing it 02.40.36 # "fuck it slap our VID and a generic PID on there, windows will figure it out" 02.40.56 # <[Franklin]> well, maybe someone should try shooting an application email to openmoko then 02.41.40 # there's no such thing as generic IDs in USB, that's the problem 02.42.02 # <[Saint]> right. 02.42.20 # <[Saint]> that's called theft. :) 02.42.23 # I remember that someone here seriously considered applying for an openmoko id years ago - no idea why that wasn't pursued in the end 02.42.41 # <[Saint]> we kinda decided it would be best coming from one of the founders. 02.43.01 # <[Franklin]> maybe they need some prodding :P 02.43.17 # <[Saint]> they've all publicly bailed out. 02.43.29 # <[Saint]> we need to revisit our structuring. 02.43.32 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 02.43.43 # if prodding them to fix the patch tracker takes weeks, I'm not too hopeful about USB IDs ;) 02.43.53 # * [Franklin] just goes ahead and writes the email 02.48.55 # <[Franklin]> should I ask for multiple PIDs for each device? 03.30.28 Join ZincAlloy1 [0] (~Adium@p57B957EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 03.33.45 Quit ZincAlloy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 03.40.29 Quit ZincAlloy1 (Quit: Leaving.) 04.17.16 Quit Aldem (Quit: Later) 04.43.35 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.29.38 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.31.36 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 06.43.38 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.57.50 Join yuriks_ [0] (~quassel@opentyrian/developer/yuriks) 06.58.16 Join Maxdaman1us [0] (~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus) 06.59.12 Join foo|sh [0] (~quassel@2601:241:c200:4bc5:5d42:1074:52eb:ecea) 07.02.49 Quit Strife89 (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit Jinx (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit TD-Linux (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit Maxdamantus (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit foolsh (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit yuriks (*.net *.split) 07.02.50 Quit Staphylo (*.net *.split) 07.03.13 Join TD-Linux [0] (~Thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) 07.09.24 Join Staphylo [0] (~Staphylo@2a01:4f8:190:126a:d70a:378:c354:a3a3) 07.10.18 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-224-211.mcn.bellsouth.net) 07.24.44 Nick Maxdaman1us is now known as Maxdamantus (~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus) 07.56.00 Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) 08.06.06 Nick yuriks_ is now known as yuriks (~quassel@opentyrian/developer/yuriks) 08.43.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.49.52 Join MMlosh [0] (~MMlosh@2001:470:6f:23:5d64:4a2c:178:b5f8) 10.37.03 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-179-187.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 10.43.45 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 11.04.45 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@ip-86-49-15-121.net.upcbroadband.cz) 11.34.22 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11.47.33 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 11.48.37 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 12.07.55 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 12.08.43 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 12.33.33 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@ip-86-49-15-121.net.upcbroadband.cz) 12.43.47 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.53.11 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 12.57.24 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12.58.10 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 13.35.31 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 14.11.41 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p4FC13BB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 14.16.34 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14.23.04 Join einhirn_ [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 14.24.28 Quit einhirn (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14.36.38 # dammit, those jz7460 have some many discrepancies with the datasheet 14.36.45 # I don't know which one to trust 14.43.01 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14.43.01 Quit Moarc (Remote host closed the connection) 14.43.07 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 14.43.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.44.44 Quit orzo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14.51.35 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 14.52.12 Join orzo [0] (joe@lasker.childrenofmay.org) 15.02.16 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15.02.35 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 15.12.06 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15.13.07 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 15.17.09 Join Moarc [0] (~chujko@a105.net128.okay.pl) 15.34.02 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@p57B957EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 15.49.51 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15.51.48 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) 15.55.02 Quit orly_owl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15.55.27 Join orly_owl [0] (~david@unaffiliated/orly-owl/x-3167833) 16.02.21 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@ip-86-49-15-121.net.upcbroadband.cz) 16.19.15 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 16.43.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.09.39 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.09.51 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.11.53 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.12.07 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.12.29 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17.13.40 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.18.55 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 17.51.43 # <[Franklin]> can I use BSD code in rockbox? 17.53.31 # <[Franklin]> glibc's implementation of strtol is virtually unreadable 18.11.47 Quit MMlosh (Quit: Bye...) 18.17.50 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 18.27.00 # What does "BSD" mean in this context? 18.28.17 # <[Franklin]> 3-clause 18.28.46 # Should be OK 18.29.11 # <[Franklin]> so just drop it in the code with the copyright? 18.29.13 # * gevaerts actually suspects that it's a better match license-wise than current glibc :) 18.32.30 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (mysuyin@server2.shellfire.net) 18.38.11 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 18.41.24 Quit Jinx (Quit: reboot) 18.43.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.01.12 Quit xorly (Quit: I quit, that is all) 19.20.19 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.21.27 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.22.16 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.23.24 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.25.29 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.26.38 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.42.16 Join Aldem [0] (~Aldem@unaffiliated/aldem) 19.49.13 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 19.52.18 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.53.26 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.56.40 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19.57.48 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 19.59.37 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.00.45 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.02.44 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.03.52 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.05.26 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.06.34 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.08.18 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.09.26 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.11.01 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20.12.10 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 20.15.04 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 20.42.10 Join olspookishmagus [0] (~pookie@snf-137798.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) 20.44.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.46.05 # http://www.banggood.com/Original-Xiaomi-Piston-3-Reddot-Design-Headphones-For-Smartphone-p-971961.html they are really that good? 21.02.38 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 21.03.34 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 21.05.45 Join Rower [0] (husvagn@d83-183-134-99.cust.tele2.se) 21.11.06 Join fs-bluebot_ [0] (~fs-bluebo@x5ce0ec39.dyn.telefonica.de) 21.11.29 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) 21.13.24 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 21.14.57 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21.18.44 Quit Aldem (Quit: Later) 21.47.17 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22.17.25 Quit Smarticles101 (Quit: Um, bai!) 22.18.14 Join Smarticles101 [0] (~Smarticle@codmadnesspro.com) 22.18.39 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-224-211.mcn.bellsouth.net) 22.21.53 Quit [Franklin] (Quit: for(;;)fork();) 22.23.00 Join [Franklin] [0] (~me@unaffiliated/franklin) 22.29.29 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) 22.44.04 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.06.28 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151015151621]) 23.10.13 # can someone post idk.. top 3 of sansa players which support rockbox ?:) 23.10.33 # based on battery/quality of sound 23.11.43 # <[Saint]> All the Clip series is pretty much identical in that regard. 23.12.08 # <[Saint]> There's nothing particularly astounding about any of the sansas. 23.12.20 # <[Saint]> cheap DAP is cheap. 23.13.16 # oh.. 23.13.31 # so.. something else not sansa, but with rockbox onboard? 23.13.44 # not top then, but mid range ? 23.13.45 # <[Franklin]> E200 and c200 are also supported 23.13.47 # <[Saint]> If sound quality is the absolute concern, ipod6g. 23.14.19 # <[Saint]> Second to that, the iPod Video probably. 23.14.36 # <[Saint]> (5/5.5G) 23.16.03 # I know nothing about ipods.. ipod6g == touch? nano? 23.16.10 # <[Saint]> Neither. 23.16.40 # classic? 23.16.58 # <[Saint]> iPod Classic 6G (also covers the 7G iteration), last iteration of the iPod line. 23.17.24 # <[Saint]> Probably more expensive then you were thinking. 23.17.35 # <[Saint]> But definitely not what I would call top end. 23.17.42 # used 240 € :o 23.19.09 Quit einhirn_ (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 23.20.33 # oh, whitescreen on sansa ;v 23.24.08 Join ivologger [0] (~ivologger@p-74-209-21-150.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net) 23.40.56 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p4FC13BB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 23.44.33 Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23.45.09 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-194-12.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) 23.51.23 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)